What Really Happened On The X Factor (And Can It Ever Come Back?)

The X Factor made Lucy Spraggan, Jahméne Douglas and Rak-Su’s Myles Stephenson famous overnight, but what really happened behind the scenes of Simon Cowell’s hit TV show? Years later, they revisit their iconic auditions, the promises of fame and the moments that changed their lives in ways they never expected. Lucy looks back at a decision that changed the course of her music career, the pressure she faced behind the cameras, and why she feels she lost herself for a decade. Jahméne reflects on having his painful childhood turned into a television storyline, and the struggle of watching millions of people form an opinion of someone he didn't recognise. Myles revisits Rak-Su’s whirlwind rise to fame, Simon Cowell’s plans for the band, and the darker reality of life after winning The X Factor. Together, they reflect on the relationships, manipulation and difficult experiences that shaped their time on the show, questioning how much of what viewers saw was ever real. Returning to the auditions where it all began, this is a raw and nostalgic look at the true cost of fame, told with the hindsight they never had at the time. Lucy, Jahméne & Myles, We Need To Talk This episode includes discussions of domestic abuse and sexual assault. If you or someone you know has been affected, please explore the support resources below and consider donating to help these organisations continue their vital work: Women’s Aid: https://linkly.link/2xInX Refuge: https://linkly.link/2xIqZ MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Brand partnerships enquiries: [email protected] Follow here: Lucy: https://www.instagram.com/lspraggan Jahméne: https://www.instagram.com/jahmeneofficial Myles: https://www.instagram.com/mylesraksu (00:00) Intro(02:18) X Factor: What We Gained and Lost(06:15) The X Factor Audition Process(37:57) Organised Ad(39:17) Who Owns the Songs?(45:41) Watching Our X Factor Auditions(52:32) How X Factor Created Characters(01:06:11) X Factor Contestant Welfare(01:14:39) The Truth About the X Factor Judges(01:23:58) Classism on The X Factor(01:28:57) X Factor Contracts Explained(01:30:49) Dealing With the Press(01:38:26) The Best Moments on X Factor(01:43:35) Behind the X Factor Final(01:47:24) Nicole Scherzinger's Mic-Snatch Moment(01:53:09) Viral X Factor YouTube Clips(01:55:42) Why Lucy Left X Factor Early(02:07:51) X Factor Blacklisting and the 'Curse'(02:16:02) Myles' Life After X Factor(02:33:21) Life and Future Projects(02:37:12) Would We Do X Factor Again?(02:38:28) Should The X Factor Return?(02:43:27) Paul's Key Takeaways Sponsored by: Organised - Use code TALK for 15% off at https://www.organised.co/talk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  The X Factor was one of the biggest television franchises in the world.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  You become a piece of this machine and it'll take everything from you.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  And what did it cost you?

• 0:41Speaker 02

  It was very fucking dark, man.

• 0:47Speaker 03

  My father was coming out of prison, so we were in witness protection, so I wouldn't be allowed to be a singer. And I was like, it's not a show for people like me.

• 0:54Speaker 04

  And how right we were.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Let's unpack it all.

• 0:59Speaker 03

  I think people are realizing they're trying to mock the rumble people.

• 1:02Speaker 05

  That was complete and utter nightmare.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  The backstage was in the freezing cold. I had a fever, I was shaking, I'd lost two and a half stone. But on the TV, it's painted as nervous Rick.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Wow, look at that.

• 1:17Speaker 04

  The album that I had released was heading towards number one, and then the next thing was a call from a lawyer.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:23Speaker 02

  You went into the dogfight by yourself. It's like hyenas, but I had my best mates with me. And Simon can almost see the future, or the money, dollar signs tingling in their eyes. They'll leave you soulless, especially if you're not careful.

• 1:35Speaker 04

  But I left the show.

• 1:38Speaker 03

  What surprised me was how much was stolen from me identity-wise, just blacklisted.

• 1:42Speaker 04

  Everything.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  And here's the question: if you could go back, would you go through with it?

• 1:51Speaker 01

  This episode includes discussion of domestic abuse and sexual assault. If these topics are difficult for you, please watch with care. And we've included links to support charities in the episode description.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  I think we should get this party started. All right. First thing I want to say is I am overjoyed that you all are here. Truly overjoyed. I can't wait for us to unpack not just The X Factor, which was one of the biggest television franchises in the world. And get this, did you know 17 to 19 million people at certain points were watching? And so we're going to fully unpack it all, including your lives, which I'd like to be able to talk about. But here's where I want to begin. And I've been thinking about how can we start this conversation so I can understand how

• 2:58Speaker 01

  you all reflect upon your experience in The X Factor? And here's the question: when you think about The X Factor, what did you gain and what did it cost you?

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Fame, my career.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  It gave you...

• 3:21Speaker 03

  Fame. I lost my music career, I would say. Why didn't... It hindered my music career, I would say.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  What a way to start, by the way. It's a very deep question.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  What did I gain?

• 3:41Speaker 02

  The freedom of being able to remain as young as possible for as long as possible.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  I lost the ability to live a quiet, private life. That now, in reflection, now I've got kids, is something that I, you know, would really cherish.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, it's fair, it's fair. Lucy, how about you?

• 4:16Speaker 04

  I gained an extraordinary, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create something that I didn't have.

• 4:28Speaker 04

  Being, you know, my career, who I am, the way I perceive the world and the way I'm perceived.

• 4:36Speaker 04

  And I lost myself for about a decade.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  A decade?

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  So you came back.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  I didn't just come back, I came back better, which is why, even though I lost myself and lots of complex and complicated things happened in those 10 years, I wouldn't change them.

• 5:05Speaker 04

  The version that came out at the end was better than I could have ever imagined, I believe. So the gain was more than the loss.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:16Speaker 04

  For my soul.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  For your soul. All right, I love it, I love it. What a way to begin, what a way to begin. Jermaine, you started with a shocker.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  What? Was it shocking?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  It was deep, man.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  That was, that was deep, because you think, I would imagine, most people go on to X Factor thinking they're getting a career. You're saying it cost you a career, or it hindered a career?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Yes. It's not... I realized afterwards in hindsight that it's not a music show. It's kind of is, but it's reality TV. It's the stories they're selling, the people that they're selling, not really selling the singer and the artist. And it reflects in how the artist is treated during the show and after the show.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  I would say.

• 6:02Speaker 04

  I agree with you. It's funny, I always said fame is a super useful tool if you have a product that it does. When you get famous and you have a product, you're ready to sell, you've got things to give to people. Fame without a product is excruciating and probably one of the largest traumas a human being can go through is people, everybody, or feeling like everybody on the planet is looking at you, and you've got nothing.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Especially when you're an artist and you know you have something to give, but you're being hindered in giving it.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  Is soul destroying.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, let's unpack it all, right? Let's, let's go back, if we can, to the very... When I say the beginning, is the beginning of your experience with X Factor, which I would imagine is this audition process.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  And I'd love to show you something. Can I show... And Lucy, in particular, can I, can I show you something?

• 7:00Speaker 04

  You can show me stuff.

• 7:01Speaker 03

  She smacked her audition.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Are you, are you ready? Are you ready for this?

• 7:05Speaker 03

  It's one of my favorite auditions.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Is it? Yeah, yeah. Does this look familiar to you?

• 7:10Speaker 04

  Oh, no way.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Isn't that cool?

• 7:12Speaker 03

  What's that audition is?

• 7:13Speaker 04

  That's my number. That's my number.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  This is your number?

• 7:16Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Look at that, look at that, Lucy.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  Go and rip it up.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  No, I'm joking. No, that's crazy.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  How, how do you feel seeing that?

• 7:29Speaker 04

  I forgot we were numbered.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Now, now, look at this, look at this. Look what else I have. You know what that is?

• 7:36Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  You don't know what this is?

• 7:38Speaker 04

  No.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Jermaine, does that look familiar to you?

• 7:40Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  This is your number!

• 7:44Speaker 01

  That's...

• 7:45Speaker 04

  Why do I know my number and you don't know?

• 7:47Speaker 03

  I don't know, I don't know. This was blocked out of my memory. I remember it ruining my outfit, I remember that much.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Now, on this though, Lucy, you just mentioned, "I didn't realize we were numbered." So I don't have one for Miles, because, Raksu, you didn't have numbers.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Didn't have no... I don't even know if our year had numbers. I can't... They must have, they must. I'm not too sure.

• 8:13Speaker 04

  Where did the numbers go? And also, if we were on the same year, there were not this many people.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  Absolutely not. That's what I was gonna say.

• 8:23Speaker 04

  In the audition process.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  Unless, unless they've done all the numbers from all the auditions.

• 8:28Speaker 04

  I highly... Well, because there wasn't 17,000 people, maybe, in between me and Jermaine.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  That's 108,000.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  And that's, that's one thing that surprised me, is when I was queuing to go in, you're queuing with the audience of the arena, but they're filming it like it's all the contestants.

• 8:46Speaker 04

  I remember that, they put you in there, didn't they? They opened the gate and they put you in, and then they would film as if you weren't there, that I remember that being like your first introduction to television, being like, "This is all fake."

• 9:00Speaker 01

  I didn't, I didn't realize that.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not the contestants.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  But, but also too, from what I understand, Lucy, you were, and I'll, I'll hold on to these, because I have, I have gifts all day, all day. And I'm sorry, Miles, I didn't have an audience.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  You can take mine.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  I didn't realize, so Lucy, you were actually recruited though?

• 9:19Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Weren't you? So how did that happen?

• 9:21Speaker 04

  Well, I had been doing music since I was, I did my first gig when I was 12, and I auditioned when I was 19. I'd toured America, I'd released a record, and I was playing at Dingwall's in Camden. I was supporting a band called The Blanks. And after the show, this really beautiful girl came up to me, and I was like, "Oh, hey."

• 9:44Speaker 04

  She's like, "Have you ever thought about auditioning for The X Factor?" And I was like, "No, I would, I never would, I'm a purist, you know, I write my own songs and you guys don't do that." And she said, "I'll let you take me on a date if you audition."

• 10:00Speaker 03

  Blackmail.

• 10:02Speaker 04

  I mean, obviously, there was, there was like, big, big conversation about the fact that no one had ever done their own songs.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  And I said, that's just, I can't do covers. That's not something I'm gonna be doing.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 10:13Speaker 04

  And, um, yeah, that's, the lure of a beautiful siren was actually what, uh, yeah, what got me.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  Is she your partner now?

• 10:22Speaker 04

  No.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  That would've been a good story.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  That would've been what a story, yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  Apparently, it was the first year that they allowed managed acts on.

• 10:30Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 10:31Speaker 03

  So I had a manager approach me to go on as well.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, interesting, did you?

• 10:34Speaker 03

  I said, no.

• 10:36Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  They had to proper convince me to do it. And I was like, it's not a show for people like me. Let's be honest.

• 10:41Speaker 04

  And how right we were.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Well, can we spend a second on that? So this is twenty twelve that you both, uh, were on, and then Myles, he came later in twenty seventeen. So what I like to do is just unpack each audition, right? Step by step. So Lucy.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  Breathe in.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  You ready for this? You ready? Here's what I have here. You see this?

• 11:03Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Look at that. That is, that is you, Lucy. So take us back. What's the first feeling that comes over you when you see that photo?

• 11:15Speaker 04

  I just feel so, so, um, she's just so young, so young.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Twenty-one?

• 11:23Speaker 04

  Twenty, I think, when I auditioned and twenty-one when I aired.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  But

• 11:29Speaker 04

  funnily enough, I'd been doing gigs, you know, hundreds of gigs a year, and I ended up, I would play in pubs a lot. So I would play all these really, um, heartfelt songs that I really wanted people to listen to. And when they lost their attention, I wrote some songs to get their attention back. So I had some funny songs to just chuck out there. And this song always stood out at those shows. So I thought, I'll just play this, get people's attention with it. It was never a serious gesture.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Really?

• 11:59Speaker 04

  Oh, it was just, you know, this is why I have, I never, I'm a chancer, I'm still a chancer. Um, and I just saw a chance to, to show people something. And that's what I thought it would be. I never, I, I, I knew it had the, the, the possi, there was a possibility it would be big, but I had no idea how big it would be.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  It would be, it was huge.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  And how big was it?

• 12:28Speaker 04

  It was big.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  Wasn't it? Before we got to judges' houses?

• 12:32Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. I mean, but the album that I had released, uh, was heading towards number one.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  So this is interesting, though, because you had, as you said, you had music out.

• 12:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  So you had music, you had an album released, and then you do this audition. But I, I, from what I understand is, is that they didn't like that.

• 12:51Speaker 03

  Making money without the contract.

• 12:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  X Factor contract.

• 12:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Okay. So then, did they ask you to remove the music?

• 12:58Speaker 04

  My audition went live.

• 13:01Speaker 04

  It went insane. The next morning, I'm looking at the charts and I'm getting phone calls, your album is, is climbing, is climbing. Well, and I'm like, what the hell? Because I released this on independent DSP platforms, oh. And then the next thing was a call from a lawyer.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  And they said.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  The next day?

• 13:20Speaker 04

  Uh, on a Sunday. And it was, you need to get that down now. And initially, I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  You haven't signed anything yet.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  No, I hadn't signed.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  That's a good point.

• 13:32Speaker 03

  They can't demand for you to remove something.

• 13:34Speaker 04

  And that's where the, that is where the manipulation started from that jump was. Um, this lawyer, who was telling me it was in my best interest to take this down. If she didn't remove this album that she'd poured over and recorded and made in her friend's kitchen, then later on in her career, she would regret it.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 13:52Speaker 04

  Um.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Oh, we won't put you through to the show.

• 13:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, there was the ultimatum.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Okay, so what was this, what was the ultimatum?

• 14:01Speaker 04

  Effectively, you have to take this down or you can't go any further.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:06Speaker 04

  If I knew then what I knew now, I'd have said, okay, goodbye, because all I needed was this.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:13Speaker 04

  All I needed was this and my product, which I had ready to go.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  It was already out.

• 14:18Speaker 04

  And I think they saw that too. And they went, oh, no, this doesn't work. And, um, it's, I have one regret in my entire life, just one, just one regret, and it is removing that album. Which, by the way, was a lovely, fabulous piece of work from a person that really cherished what they made.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yes. And you say you needed this because fifty-two million people have seen this, or should I say fifty-two million views?

• 14:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Of, of that one audition. So that's that launchpad. You had the product, but you were given the ultimatum. Uh, now, Jermaine, you just said something that I didn't realize. I, I would have thought that you would have had to sign a contract before, or a deal, or something before the audition.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  You get to the top six. Top six, yeah, it's live shows.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  So you kind of like have no choice. You're like, oh, I'm so close. I must sign.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  So, so with the audition, going into the audition, though, is that you didn't sign anything?

• 15:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  At that point?

• 15:14Speaker 03

  No.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  So, so now I, I understand why they gave you that, that option. Lucy, at that point, am I correct in thinking that you thought that the opportunity with X Factor would be bigger than you going out on your own?

• 15:29Speaker 04

  It wasn't that I thought that. It's then I was convinced that the, that was the messaging. That was the beginning of the absolute Stockholm syndrome that was being a part of that, which was, here's the message, this is the biggest opportunity of your life. Don't leave, don't lose this, don't drop this now. It will, you will regret this forever, all the time, all the time. So it's not that I thought that, because actually I was super ready to just, you know, go out there and take on the world. I was broken down to believe that. It took a little while. And when I pressed the click, take this down, the CEO of the distributor called me and said, you're gonna be a millionaire at the end of this week.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  At the end of the week?

• 16:14Speaker 04

  It was on for, I think, forty-eight hours. It made fifty-six thousand pounds and, well, I, I pressed the button within the twenty-four hour thing. So it was more like twenty-four hours. It was fifty-six thousand.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Wow, wow.

• 16:26Speaker 04

  Um, and obviously was gaining momentum at that time. And there was a trajectory. Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  And that's like a record deal money.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  That's big, that's big money.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  It's big money.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  It's big money. So, all right. If we go to the audition itself, uh, because I've watched this audition now fifty times. And, and the one thing that, to me, stands out the most is, it almost looked as if you were in disbelief of the reception that you were getting. Can, can you take us to that moment? How did you feel?

• 16:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was completely blown away. I, I've spent a lot of my life like this little, like weirdo in a cardigan and those tom shoes that people used to wear. I never really felt like I had much of a place in the world. I've always felt very transient and just trying to show people this thing I had and like, please, everybody like me.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:20Speaker 04

  And I had been in pubs and clubs and gigs and I'd had little tastes of people really enjoying it. And that was my first experience. I would got on that stage and just had this moment where everybody stood up and everyone was clapping. And, uh, it's probably the, the, the strongest sense of external validation I've ever had in my life. My little self couldn't have exploded with that. It was the really, and you know, it's a remarkably joyful moment that still is joyful to remember of just thinking, what's happening right now?

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, because I saw tears.

• 17:56Speaker 04

  Oh, I cried, I cried, and I cried until I walked out of that arena. I cried and cried and cried and I walked out. And then I had this weird feeling. Oh, if they don't put that anywhere, it's like it never happened.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  I just walked out and I, I actually walked so far that I, I walked past the bus stop I was supposed to be getting home. And I got lost in this giant industrial estate. And it was kind of a bit like an episode of Black Mirror.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. But now, when you were there, did you do an encore?

• 18:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, I did. Yeah, they didn't show it, but, uh, I played this song. And then the audience, one more song, one more song. I think I did two more.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 18:38Speaker 04

  Two more songs, yeah. Yeah. It was a really, really remarkable, uh, experience. And what a, you know, what a good, it's soul, it's soulful, you know?

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. It, it, it looks like it felt positive.

• 18:52Speaker 04

  It did.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  One of the most authentic auditions, I think, for an artist.

• 18:57Speaker 04

  Because, like, I could, I could have brushed my hair.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  You look fine.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, what, uh, that's, I'm curious about that. What, why do you say that was the most, one of the most authentic?

• 19:09Speaker 03

  It's not necessarily something I'd listen to, because I listen to gospel, R and B, but as soon as I heard her sing, I was like, this is authentic. This is true. This is from her heart. And I was like, yes, she's, she's made it, whether she's going through or not.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 04

  You're very kind.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  Honest.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  I, you, you know, but, but Lucy, I, I mean, I echo that. I think we all saw that.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  We all saw that. There was this realness to what you were doing. Can I hold on to that?

• 19:38Speaker 04

  You sit in the car.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  All right. So you know who we're going to next?

• 19:41Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  We're going to the man with the button up.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  There it is.

• 19:49Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 19:53Speaker 04

  Oh, Jesus.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Jermaine, I will say, I, once again, I wasn't here to see

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  this live. Keep that up, keep that up.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  And so I didn't know what to expect. And I believe that the surprise that overcame me is the surprise that you see the audience like this angelic.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  How tight the seat was.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  The voice.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  It was really tight.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  No, no, the voice, the voice, truly, angel, voice of an angel comes out.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  You sing Etta James.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Gave me chills when I watched that. What was, what were the moments in your head going into this? Because the way that it appeared is if you were nervous.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  As if I was Forrest Gump. I feel that's the music they played underneath me.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  The thing is, I'm, people that know me, I'm realizing in the past two years I might have ADHD. I might.

• 20:58Speaker 04

  Might.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  But people that know me know that I will joke and I will just say things. So I was like, oh, the stage is very shiny. Oh, I think I'm going to wee myself. And when you put that against Forrest Gump music, it comes across differently.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  It came across very differently. But yeah, I learnt after watching it that I need to probably reenact a few things.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  Character wise, to be on a main stage.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  So if you were to reflect on how you actually felt going into that audition, how did you feel?

• 21:33Speaker 03

  I was carrying a lot, so

• 21:36Speaker 03

  I'd just lost, like a few years before I'd lost my older brother. Cause my father was coming out of prison, so we were in witness protection. And we were told to take up grave names in Australia to be completely safe. So you change your name, you're not allowed to have social media, so I wouldn't be allowed to be a singer. And I was like, you know what? I would like to take the control back. I'm gonna go on this TV show. I didn't think I was gonna make it past the audition. I just wanted to show my siblings, get your power back. Let me do this thing that's gonna frighten me and get through it. And that's what was in my head, my mom on the side of the stage. I was just like, let's do this to show my father I'm not scared anymore.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  So that's all that was for me. The audition was just, I'm breaking free from being in a box, being locked away, being in witness protection, having to go by different names. And I was just like, I can't be bothered anymore. I've lost my, my older brother.

• 22:40Speaker 03

  And I didn't wanna lose myself. And I was very close to it.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  So this is me gaining control.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  And the show will reduce all of that to a stop, sorry.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Minutes of my life.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  I didn't think this was gonna happen.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  I'm not an emotional person.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Emotions are good.

• 23:07Speaker 03

  You know, we just laugh at everything. That's fine. We laugh at everything.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  You, you know what? It's, it's, it's good because it's real.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  And I tell you, I, one is, I mean, thank you for sharing that. Because even doing the reading, I, I was, I was thinking the strength that he has to be able to walk in and stand on that stage. I saw your mother with you. She must have been proud.

• 23:39Speaker 03

  That's not good.

• 23:40Speaker 04

  Let me get you a tissue.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Here, here, it's, I'm gonna get you a rag.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Cool. I can compose myself.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  This is good for me.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  She's good, man.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. Therapy at nine, why?

• 23:57Speaker 04

  Should've started earlier.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Yes, I was just trying to, what surprised me was how much, um,

• 24:11Speaker 03

  was stolen from me identity wise after this. So I thought I was doing a good thing. I thought I was doing the strong thing. And then afterwards I was made out to be

• 24:21Speaker 03

  just something completely different. And I understand the way I came across. I'm coming from a place of abuse. I don't know how to act in certain spaces. I don't know how to act around certain people or around people. So jumping onto this big stage for me was

• 24:37Speaker 03

  completely our body experience was unusual.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  And I'm a very in control person, so this was difficult. The scary thing for me was, um,

• 24:50Speaker 03

  so we've got to be careful what we say, just knowing where my father was. So my case was quite severe to the point where he promised to take us off one by one and leave my mom to last. So doing this was dangerous. Like he would know where I am. It would be easier to find us. But I just wanted to take that control and I feel like it worked because I haven't heard from him since.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  What, what was, if I can ask, uh, what was the conversation with your mother like? Because you knew the danger and she knew the danger.

• 25:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  That, that was over you.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  She knew what it meant heart wise. She knew the healing in it. She knew if I take my children to Australia and change their names, I'm gonna lose my children. I've already lost my eldest, so let's do this.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:45Speaker 03

  It's not working, the, the police route, it's not working. We've been doing it for years, running, running, running. My father finding us and it just wasn't working. So I didn't want to get around to another stage of my father finding us and not having any control.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  You know, he, hearing you say this, did you choose at last, was there?

• 26:08Speaker 03

  Um, I actually chose.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  I actually chose His Eyes on the Sparrow.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Oh, did you?

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Which is probably too Christian for the X factor.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Is it, so you chose?

• 26:23Speaker 03

  Eye on the Sparrow at last was like my second, third choice. I had the greatest love of all, Eye on the Sparrow, and at last.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  X factor chose at last.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  They chose it last, at last.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Well, you did it.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  You did it. I'm telling you, to the point where when I watched the judges, they all stood up. I hadn't seen that. They all stood up, gave you, uh, you know, a, a applause. And it looked like Nicole in particular leaned into you there. Did you feel that among the judges?

• 27:01Speaker 03

  I was completely numb.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:03Speaker 03

  I don't remember, I didn't take, all I remember is there were no monitors on the stage. Being a singer, I just remember thinking, how am I gonna hear myself on the stage with no monitors? So I was panicking about that.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  All right.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  I remember.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  So it's interesting, it was, it was about the, the technicals.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  Cause when you're like a singer, singer, it's like, how is this gonna go if I can't hear myself? Especially when people scream or the sound cuts out. You can't hear the track play. And the first time I walked out, they played the wrong track.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Did they?

• 27:35Speaker 03

  So this is the second time I came out, which was probably more nerve wracking than the first.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  So it was, it was your second time coming out to this stage. But from what I understand, there were auditions happening off camera, which I had no idea. And I don't know if you all did.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  This is like four stages. Yeah, you have to go through all the stages.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Everyone goes through four stages.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  So, so what are they?

• 28:01Speaker 03

  It's like the producer rounds and the, the, trying to see who can win, who can make good TV and who can make the mocking auditions where they mock the vulnerable people, which in hindsight I think people are realizing.

• 28:17Speaker 04

  It's very medieval.

• 28:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. I remember being in the process, sat next to someone that was clearly vulnerable, let's say.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  And then seeing them on the TV and how shocked they were. And it's because they've been told, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then no. And people are laughing at you and this video is gonna be online for the rest of your life.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  I see it.

• 28:39Speaker 03

  And it's just, that's mortifying.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. All right, so now a question I have, and I can, I'm gonna hold on to, to, to this.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  Yes, please.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  Burn it.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Get rid of that.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Hey, can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying this episode, please can you hit the follow button? It's the best way of telling us that you want more episodes just like this one. It only takes a second, it's completely free. Thank you.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  I wanna go to this particular group.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Right, and, and, and, and I wanna go here. Look at that, look at that.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  You had the room audition.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  The room audition.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  That's more nerve wracking, you know.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  It really. So by 2017, it feels as if, I'm gonna give that to you there. Miles. Uh, look at that, Miles hasn't changed. Miles has not changed.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  They say the beige don't age.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  I've never been beige don't age.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, the black don't crack, the beige don't age.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  You ever heard it?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Oh my god. So now.

• 29:53Speaker 03

  As long as you moisturize, sorry.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, this is good, moisturizer is good. This is 2017. The X Factor had changed.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  A lot.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  A lot, uh, uh, by 2017. But where I wanna go, and this is, this is picking up in what we're talking about with these pre-auditions, is that it felt to me, when I watched the Raksu audition, it felt as if the judges, but namely Simon, were like, yeah. Like, from the jump, they were like, yeah. And I felt that special, yeah. So here's a controversial question, but I need to ask this, is, do you believe production or the judges, do you believe they know, they have a good feel on who's going to make it to the end before the audition?

• 30:45Speaker 03

  I would say they have their ideas. They'll have like a group of people that they wanna push.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  So we got scouted to do the show, same as you. Um, did you get scouted?

• 30:55Speaker 03

  A manager found me.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Manager, yeah, so we got scouted, we was performing at a gay bar in Soho, open mic night.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Um, and we had started generating a bit of traction.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  But these are all friends of yours?

• 31:09Speaker 02

  I've known them since I was 10.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I've, I've known them, yeah, 25 years. Um, my best mates, and they've been my best mates when I got expelled from school. I would hide at Ashley's house and wait till he got back from school because I didn't wanna go down to my nan's house or my mum punished me and made me do homework. Like, we were, you know, we'd been brothers from day one. But we was performing, uh, at gay bar in Soho and we got scouted. Uh, a beautiful lady came up to us and said, how about? I'm not the same one.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Wait, hold on for a second.

• 31:42Speaker 04

  I think it's called, is it Leila?

• 31:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Wait. Wait, is it really?

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 31:52Speaker 04

  So I'm in Camden, you're in Soho.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  She's getting around.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  She's getting around.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  All the nights, yeah, she's beautiful. Yeah, she's, yeah, Leila is beautiful.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  How did it get to me, Leila?

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Um, so we put, we, we got asked to go on the show. And a running theme between me, Jamal, Mustafa and Ashley, um, is that we argue over everything, everything. So we had a massive argument about doing the X Factor. It was like, you know, we've got a solid amount of Spotify listeners. We'd just started getting paid to do like little gigs, like 250 quid here and there, and we was building naturally. Um, and I'm the dreamer of the group. And I'm also kind of like the, I might not swear.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Um, like, I'm the, I'm like the, if there's a button that says fuck it, I'm gonna press it. Um, and I was kind of said to the boys, it's like, we've got nothing to lose here, go on. If we, you know, if they make a laughing stock of us, so what? We've had two minutes of, you know, TV time.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Um, and we can kind of translate it to our music. Uh, yeah, and then we, we kind of agreed to do it and we went to the Tottenham Court Road behind the scenes auditions. And one thing I notice now, obviously going through the show, is that everybody who went to the behind the scenes auditions were genuinely the people that got to the finals or got to the judges' houses or got to the live shows. Like, it, it felt, you know, cause thousands of people auditioned, like thousands. Um, but everybody that I saw at that live audition either got to the judges' houses or they got to the live shows.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Like categorically.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Look at that. Now, to this point though, you believe they knew who was going to win. So, so if, but if that's the case, how, how does that happen?

• 33:50Speaker 03

  Like a top three possibly.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, yeah, I think they would probably hedge their bets on a few people. Um, and be like, okay, you know, we predict that they will go so far in the show or, you know.

• 34:03Speaker 03

  Taylor parts of this were around a bit more.

• 34:05Speaker 04

  They write your story.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:07Speaker 04

  That story evolves as the show evolves.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Our process was, it was hard from, a lot like you guys, it was hard. Um, you know, we're the, I think the only act ever to do originals the whole way through.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Because you get production in the back fighting you every single way. Not as hard as Lucy probably got it. Um, but it's, it's, you know, our audition, this audition, we did Señorita.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yes, Justin Timberlake, yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Justin Timberlake and I'm Feeling You, which was an original. We, we did I'm Feeling You first.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  But at this point, so we, we got in at 6 a.m. The moment we walked into the, the kind of, the premise, the premises, we got a camera, you're Raksu, you need to come with us, you're filming all day. So we filmed all day, we didn't actually audition till 2 a.m. the following day.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Get out of here.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, we was filming all day, I was hungover as shit. Like, I went, I went out the night before.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Of course you did.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went out, I was in Manchester, I was like, I have to go, you know, I have to go out in Manchester. Um, but yeah, we didn't actually audition till 2 a.m. And we did I'm Feeling You first. Now, at this point, we are tired, like, we've been there since 6 a.m. the day before.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Hurry up and wait was the catchphrase for the iron.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Hurry up and wait.

• 35:40Speaker 03

  Hurry up and wait.

• 35:41Speaker 04

  Hurry up and wait.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's get you there early and then make you wait till hours.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Literally. And we, yeah, so it was 2 a.m. At this point, we were like, we just wanna go out, like, you know, we've been here for nearly 24 hours.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  And you have to perform.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  And then we have to perform, so I was like, alright, perk yourself up. So we did I'm Feeling You first and there was no emotion, like, it was just like we was performing, you know, at a pub. It was just like, let's just go in there.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Goes with emotions.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't really care to, like, we're not, you know, we're not hyper focused on, oh, we have to do really well in this. Yeah, we're like, we'll just use this to our advantage. Um, and I noticed that very quickly. Like, we weren't scared, we weren't nervous, they were trying to, obviously with the cameraman, are you scared about this? Are you nervous? How do you feel? Are you excited? And we're just like, no, we just wanna perform, like, and with my best mates, like, I can confine in them, like, no matter what, you know, and I say.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  It's a good way to do it, to be fair, that's comfort zone, right then.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  And.

• 36:38Speaker 04

  They panicked.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 36:39Speaker 04

  I bet they panicked.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, big time.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Oh, you're saying production panicked.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  So we did I'm Feeling You first, that's when Simon put up his hand and stopped and said, have you got another song? So it's actually reversed.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  And then obviously when he stopped, then, when he stopped us doing I'm Feeling You, then we was like, shit. We only wanna do originals, the production team know that if we are not, if we are not allowed to do originals, we will leave the show. Now, we've got to the first hurdle and Simon's put up his hand and he's gone, have you got something else? And then we've gone, okay, yeah, we've got Señorita by Justin Timberlake.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  So we started performing that and then we, we performed the whole song and they never let you normally just do a whole song and, you know, it's a five minute song.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Done the whole song and then they sat there and they all spoke and they had things in their ears and they're like, Simon goes, oh, can you go back to the first song you did, please? Which was I'm Feeling You. And then we looked at each other and at this point, we're shitting it because we are actually scared, we're gonna be made a laughing stock here. Um, so we gave it the best performance ever of I'm Feeling You. And then that's when you see Nicole stand out, ah, clapping, woo, dancing, Simon's clapping, saying, I love you and, you know, Louis and Sharon are, you know, having great fun, but it was actually reversed.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  Hey Paul.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  What's up?

• 38:12Speaker 02

  What is that?

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Oh, this? Cow liver.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Okay, gross.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  See, that reaction right there, we talk about some pretty uncomfortable things on the show, but put an organ on a table and apparently that's where we draw the line.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Okay, but why do we have organ meat here?

• 38:29Speaker 01

  They're actually some of the most nutrient-dense parts of the animal, yet we treat them as the part we'd never want to eat.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Never really thought about it that way. Do you guys eat it at home?

• 38:39Speaker 01

  We do. I eat them, my boys eat them, my wife eats them, we love them, especially on travel. But I really think about when we're at home and making sure they're getting the nutrients they need, because we just don't have a lot of time. But most people aren't suddenly going to start cooking organ meat, which this new brand, Organize, understands. They've started sponsoring our show and we've been trying it out. Add it to smoothies, soups, even your coffee, it is easy.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  So you're saying we don't need to eat this raw liver?

• 39:08Speaker 01

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• 39:27Speaker 00

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• 39:57Speaker 06

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• 40:20Speaker 06

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• 40:28Speaker 01

  Did you own that music and did you face the same challenge that Lucy had?

• 40:34Speaker 02

  It was the same scenario as Lucy.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  So when we did "I'm Feeling You," which we wrote, produced ourselves, it went on to Spotify's global playlist and it was number one.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  And it was...

• 40:55Speaker 03

  There's a running theme here.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  And I remember looking at it, we was like, what the hell is going on? You know, and you're so taken back by it, aren't you? You're like, this is absolutely mental. And we had just released an EP called Flights and Fields. And we fought tooth and nail. I think we did end up taking down "I'm Feeling You," and we had to re-record it at the Sony office.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  So they go, cut.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  So then the master becomes Sony's.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  But we managed to keep up, we managed to keep up some, a few songs from Flights and Fields, but it is literally take down your music, guy, or you can't progress in the show. So they kind of came to a compromise and I think we kept a few songs up and then, yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  I think you came to the compromise.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 04

  What's amazing, it demonstrates how much changed in five years. There were no streaming, streaming wasn't a thing. I owned this, you know, it made money because you were selling, selling. Whereas then when you're doing it, it was the streaming. So it's funny, they came across the same issue again, but with a different platform.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  What's really staying with me, though, in the story, is how they asked you to re-record the music. So they, because it sounds like what they did in Lucy's case was, they just missed it, they just said, take it down.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  You would have said no.

• 42:25Speaker 04

  Well, actually, what happened was worse is someone bought my album, someone re-recorded it, like for like, with not my voice, not the instrumentation of, they re-recorded it and released it within 24 hours of me removing mine, called it "Top Room at the Zoo" in the style of Lucy's bragging, and that then was climbing the charts.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  So even worse for me was somebody else then profited from my music that I owned. And when I told the X Factor, guys, guys, this is what happened, they went to the press and told them I was having a go at people doing covers of my music, that I didn't want people doing covers.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Did you claim, did you claim PRS?

• 43:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, like at the time, yeah, like...

• 43:10Speaker 01

  PRS, I'm sorry, what's that?

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Royalties.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Royalties.

• 43:12Speaker 04

  Well, actually, it's an MCPS issue, because it was the mechanical, and I didn't have MCPS, because I was like some fresh, you know, like...

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  So who did it?

• 43:25Speaker 04

  I still don't know. I still don't know. And the lawyers, believe it or not, the lawyers were not interested in helping me get that taken down.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Wow. That is more devastating, that's more devastating.

• 43:36Speaker 04

  It's devastating.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  So we did "I'm Feeling You" in, I think, June or something, when you do the auditions, isn't it, or July?

• 43:45Speaker 02

  And we got to the live shows and they asked us to do "I'm Feeling You" on the live shows, on the very first of the live show. So they reproduced the song.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  And then we had to re-vocal the songs.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  I see, that's slick.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  So then they got, you know, it was the global number one on the playlist, they could use that bullet again. So there's like, oh, why don't you do, on the live shows, "I'm Feeling You," your first song? And then make us some money.

• 44:19Speaker 04

  And then they just owned the masters after that.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  And the masters.

• 44:23Speaker 04

  You were completely unaware about the laws, you know, all of that, how that mechanism works at the time?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  We knew about it, but then when you were at the live shows, you know, you're at, you know, you're going to the live shows, so by that point, it's, you know, shut up and do it, yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Why? Because you're thinking of the opportunity?

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I knew we was gonna win from the day we did that audition.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  I'm, like I said, I'm the dreamer, so if I am going to do something, I'm going to make sure that I am getting far in it, or I'm gonna be successful at it.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  And then when the show aired, data show aired, we blew up, you know? We was trending number three on Twitter at the time.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Our song had gone global number one on the Spotify playlist, so, you know, when that happened, I was like, we're gonna win it, you know? And then it became my objective and our objective to go as far as possible with this. And, you know, and we fought so hard to win it. It wasn't just write an original song and produce original song, it was during the live, well, the six-chair challenge.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  They tried to make us do a cover, and me and Ashley at the time were just rappers. We grew up on grime, like 16 for 16, MC.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  They gave us like Little Mix touch, and they were like, oh, you're gonna have to sing, because we can't get cleared, the rapping parts, you have to stick true to the lyrics and lyric for lyric. And they didn't know I could produce, so I just reproduced mine and Ashley's bit. And yeah, played in the chords and made a little rap section, because then it doesn't have to go through clearance. So then it allowed us to rap, so it was like...

• 46:14Speaker 01

  I see it.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  It was, yeah, the whole, the whole process was, was like that, it was fighting back and forth, back and forth. But, yeah, it was, you know, I had my best mates with me, so nobody could tell me a single thing.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, you had that, because I can see how your experience was much different than Jermaine and Lucy's, because you were alone, but then you found, I would imagine you found friendships, but you already had those friendships coming in, so there was a sense of safety that you had, and that gave you comfort, it gave you more confidence. When you watched the audition, when you were watching it, where were you and what was your reaction seeing it?

• 46:57Speaker 02

  So all of our moms are friends.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  And they have been for years as well, same as me and the boys. So we invited 60 people around to my mom's house.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  Sounds like a big house.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a nice house. It was, 60 people was well too overcrowded, there was people in the kitchen that couldn't even see the TV.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  But yeah, I think there was about 60 people there, Ashley's family, Mustafa's family, Jamal's family, my family, cousins, best friends outside of the group as well. So, yeah, we was all sat in my mom's or stood in my mom's living room and we watched it together. And my mom's house proper went off that night.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  I can imagine, were you proud?

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, yeah, it was, I do everything for those three boys, you know? Mustafa's no longer in the band because of the X Factor journey. But yeah, I do everything for them and, you know, see their smile and, you know, in that photo is like... You know, it's one of those moments that you you live for forever with your best mates. And to do a show as big and as crazy as X Factor is with my best mate.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Doesn't happen.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Doesn't happen. So do you watch any of these clips?

• 48:17Speaker 02

  I've never, I've never watched my show.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  So when it, when is the last time you saw this photo?

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Years, man.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Years.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Years. I haven't, yeah, I haven't seen this photo for years. Yeah.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  What was going on in that Miles' mind in that moment?

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Flirt with Nicole.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  Oh, did you feel?

• 48:43Speaker 01

  You were focused.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was, I was locked in. Best performance I ever did.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  No, it was, um, you know, for me, it was just being there with my best mate, you know, in front of Simon Cowell, in front of Nicole, Sharon and Louis.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  As much as I've not watched X Factor, you know, who, you know, you always, you've always grown up seeing clips of X Factor or, you know, watching certain points of X Factor. And it was kind of just like a, what the hell? Like, what, what are we doing here?

• 49:21Speaker 03

  You're inside the TV.

• 49:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and it's, um, and it was, the funny thing is that is it was kind of all for shits and giggles. Like with us, it was like, you know, if, if we get kicked off after this audition, that's fine.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  You know, we go back to our jobs. We'll continue making music and see where it lands us. And I think that's the beautiful thing about being in a band is that you can have so much freedom. Because if one of you is nervous or anxious.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can lean on each other.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, the other three are gonna pick you up.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah, I mean, you could see it. I think what's beautiful too is that you've remained friends despite everything, you know, that's, that's happened. And when I say the industry, I know so many people who've started as groups, especially musical groups, and then just split because of the different pressure that's placed on you. So I think it's beautiful, you know?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Can I hold on to that?

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  All right. So I have to ask, because I, I, I just asked that one, is where were you both when you watched the audition?

• 50:30Speaker 04

  I was in my friend's apartment in Sheffield. We were all drinking. My friend had just started like a men's underwear company, so we were all wearing women's underwear. And I sat, we all sat down and all of a sudden I walked onto the screen and I remember thinking, oh, this is strange. And as it happened, I realized that I, you don't know whether you're gonna be a five minute seg- segment.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  How it's gonna be edited.

• 50:58Speaker 04

  You don't know who you're gonna be. And I sat there and I remember thinking, oh dear. You know, this was, this was big time. Like, this was huge. When it finished, like, you know, when my section had finished, me and my friends sort of looked at each other and we're like, oh my god. Hashtag beer fear was trending on Twitter.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Oh, that's right, beer fear, yeah.

• 51:24Speaker 04

  And we were going on a night out in Sheffield, because that's what we did every Saturday night. And I used to sell, uh, sell stuff in the street. So I was the kind of person that you would automatically not see. I was invisible, right? And I went from being this person that day to going out at night in Sheffield. And when I opened the front door, from then on, everybody in the street, everybody in the bar, everybody, everywhere I went, knew who I was and what I'd just done on TV. And it was the most bizarre experience of my life.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  So, so then, Jermaine, where were you when you saw the audition?

• 52:07Speaker 03

  All my family were on my, end of my mom's bed where the TV was. And what struck, struck me was my little brother's reaction, because I'm not used to seeing them react to things. And my little brother started crying. And I was like, oh, this is why I'm doing it. Like, this is, like, it hit me. And I remember my phone got really hot and it shut off, because so many people were following me on Twitter. It was just going, and then my phone just switched off. And I was like, oh, I guess we've arrived.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Because why? I've never heard of a phone shutting off. Yeah.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  Because so many people were following. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to get ready. And then it deletes some things.

• 52:52Speaker 04

  I, I remember doing the same thing. You like wrung it back, is you would refresh and it would have gone up by another 10,000. And you would refresh and another 10,000.

• 53:02Speaker 03

  It was wild.

• 53:04Speaker 04

  There was nothing like that.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  No.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  Platform.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  And there's no way to prepare for it. It's not TV worthy to be prepared.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  It's not TV worthy to be prepared. Can you explain that?

• 53:16Speaker 03

  To have a character for TV, they need you to be unprepared. They need you to be shocked, um, scared, nervous, whatever it is, they need you to be that. So if they prepare you for it, you're not gonna give them good reality TV.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Hmm. So if you are scared, nervous, it allows them to lean in to that.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  Did to me a bit too much.

• 53:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  How, when, when you reflect on the experience, how do you believe that they leaned, production leaned in to creating that character for you? And what do you believe the character was that was created?

• 53:55Speaker 03

  Nervous wreck, I would say. Yeah. Even in the boot camp, I was given a call time of 6:00 AM. Everyone else was text a new time that was like 10:00 AM. So I arrived at the arena, 6:00 AM. It was raining. I was wondering why the doors weren't open. And I waited for like two hours, thinking I'm gonna miss my slot. So I'm already getting a bit sick from the cold. So by the time I got to the TV show, a nurse came up to me and said, we would like to take you to the hospital because we wanna check your levels. Because I was doing this.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  I was had a fever, food poisoning, I was shaking. But on the TV, it's painted as nervous wreck. They had people at the bottom of the stage ready to catch me in case I passed out. And the nurse was telling me, it's up to you if you wanna go on. Of course I'm gonna go on. Not gonna forfeit my slot. But they wanted to check my levels and get my levels back up. But yeah, fever, food poisoning, wasn't a good boot camp experience.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Did you realize this was the portrayal as you were going through the experience?

• 55:04Speaker 03

  No, I didn't. When I watched it back, I was like, oh, this, I guess this is me now.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  For the foreseeable, I guess I'm going to be this. And I didn't, I didn't know how to escape it. Regardless of how well I performed, I'm just gonna be this semi joke. That's how I felt.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Is, is that the, the laugh was on you?

• 55:28Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:29Speaker 03

  And even a few misunderstandings of me laughing after everything I used to say

• 55:35Speaker 03

  actually stems from abuse. So when people used to attack me for it, I was like, oh my gosh, there's so much I need to control about myself that I didn't realize. And it's from my father. I remember I caught him, um, attacking my mother. And he thought I was spying on him doing it. And he had me off my feet on, against the wall. And he would say, if you're gonna cry, I'm gonna beat you more, basically. So my nervous tick was to laugh. So he was strangling me. And I'd end up having like a nervous laugh. And that's where my nervous laugh came from, was just trying to not get beaten more. So anytime I felt uncomfortable, X Factor, just laughing after everything I'm saying, I'm watching it back, I was like, I need to

• 56:20Speaker 03

  get this under control, because people are mocking me for it.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  You, you know, was, was production aware of what was happening in your life and what had previously happened?

• 56:33Speaker 03

  I, I witnessed X Factor wanting to be a singer. And that was it. I didn't say anything.

• 56:40Speaker 03

  My story was dug up because Crown Court is public information.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 56:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, I remember this.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  And I remember, I think I was going to sing Say Little Prayer For You. And it came up onto my VT, the video they play before you come out. And they were saying, oh, thug father or this. And it was in the newspapers. I didn't know it was in the newspapers that week. And I was just like, before the doors opened, I was like, speechless. I was like, I'm, I'm gonna have to sing now.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Because this is live.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  Weird.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  This is a live show.

• 57:09Speaker 03

  I'm like, oh, my story's out. Like, this is it. I'm a sub story now. That's what was going through my head.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  In, in that, so with the live show, by the time you make it to the, to the live show, you realize how, like, you begin to realize what the reception is and how big this, this opportunity could be. So when you see that in the VT, what's, what's shocking me though is that no one came to you, you know, in that.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  They came to me afterwards.

• 57:38Speaker 04

  I think you have to, you have to be clear about what's happening right now. So you're waiting behind these big, they call them spider doors.

• 57:47Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  You're about to do a live show on television. The next three and a half minutes is your time to perform. A version of this happened to me. Upon the screen here, you can see the VT they play before you go on stage.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 58:01Speaker 04

  I didn't know that that happened to you, that that's how that was revealed to you. You don't know what's gonna be on the VT. So you're standing there for the first.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, they put it in the VT.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:13Speaker 04

  I didn't know that.

• 58:15Speaker 03

  And I just remember coming out and I had to walk down a flight of stairs and I was like, I was like, literally just speechless. And I think at the end of the performance, I broke down. And then people again are just gonna be like, oh, sub story, he's crying because he wants the votes. And I was just like, no, I'm actually in a completely out of control situation when I'm usually in control and it's on TV. And I just remember shaking, just thinking, everybody knows.

• 58:42Speaker 03

  And I didn't tell them. Yeah. I was, yeah, devastated, but I tried to put a positive spin on it and I became the first youth ambassador for Women's Aid. And anytime someone wanted to interview, I made sure they donated to Women's Aid.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Okay, to, to, to the cause, yeah. And so

• 59:03Speaker 01

  you, and, and this is what I find interesting too about musicians, but I'll say television talent as well, is you become very familiar with masking. And so in that moment, you're forced

• 59:16Speaker 03

  To perform.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  To perform.

• 59:18Speaker 03

  Happy as hell.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  And you're, you're probably walking on stage smiling.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  And you, and you're forced to take that emotion and just push it back.

• 59:26Speaker 03

  I need to remember the words of the song that I've just learnt in two days.

• 59:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, who was that as well?

• 59:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes.

• 59:31Speaker 04

  The song on the Monday, Tuesday?

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Delivery on a Tuesday.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  Okay, learn it on a Monday.

• 59:38Speaker 04

  No, give it to Tuesday, was it?

• 59:40Speaker 03

  Give it to Tuesday, rehearse Wednesday. Uh, approval Wednesday and then rehearse Thursday.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  Thursday.

• 59:47Speaker 03

  Friday.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Friday, perform it Saturday live.

• 59:50Speaker 04

  And as someone who, I'm recording my ninth album now and I've toured ever since The X Factor. That's not how the music industry works. Nothing about that, nothing about that music show is how the music industry works. None of it. You don't get given a song on a Tuesday and play it. You know, there's been times, there's maybe been one occasion in my life where I've been invited on stage with somebody else and I've had to learn a song rap.

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  Mm.

• 1:00:21Speaker 04

  All the rest of it, all of this trauma before going on stage, yeah.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  Talking your voice out.

• 1:00:27Speaker 04

  You might get a text message.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  Backstage?

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, oh yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  The backstage was in the freezing cold at Fanta Studios. We were breathing the air out of our mouths.

• 1:00:36Speaker 04

  No in ears.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  No in ears, no monitors on the stage. So you're coming in with your tight vocal cords from the freezing cold into a hot room. And your vocal cords are like elastic and if you do that quick, your voice is gonna break.

• 1:00:48Speaker 04

  It's just, they, and their excuse would have been, we're trying to tell you what the world will be like from now on then.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  I've never experienced anything like that since.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Lucy, you mentioned that a similar experience to you happened when Jermaine saw the VT running, you were backstage. What was your experience?

• 1:01:05Speaker 04

  My grandma died whilst I was on the show, so I got a call. And someone said, your grandma's died. Obviously, I needed to get straight to my family. There was a funeral. Everything happened really quickly. I didn't talk about it. I just was like, I'm going, I'm not gonna talk about this. No. That wasn't my character either. My character wasn't doing, you know, emotions. My character was being rebel.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:31Speaker 04

  And I got back from the funeral and they took me up to the, the top floor of this big, um, sky rise and this white warehousey looking, high ceilinged room, just a chair in the middle of the room and some cameras. And somebody sat down next to the camera. And I sat there. And they said, so how's your week been? And my week's been okay, thank you. What you been up to? Yeah, I mean, I've just been, you know, doing my thing, doing my, these questions continue, continue. And I managed to sort of like weave.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:02:07Speaker 04

  They stopped, they went and had a chat, they came back, sat down. Your grandma died, didn't she? And I, this tear went down my cheek and I looked down and I couldn't speak. I looked up and I couldn't speak.

• 1:02:26Speaker 04

  They let me go. Later on, I'm standing behind the stage on the Saturday night. I'm about to sing a song to millions of people on television. I look up and it, there's, you know, her grandma's just died. The tear rolls down my cheek. I look down, the stage opens and I remember my, my, you know, when you're about to burst into tears.

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  That horrible, that shock.

• 1:02:49Speaker 04

  My tight feeling. It was up here and these doors opened and I, I, I feel it now, physically, I can physically feel those feelings now in my body. Of just this that I'd been blindsided.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  For no reason.

• 1:03:08Speaker 04

  For no reason.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  I see it. You, you know, um, my, my, my shock and I, I didn't, I, it, I didn't realise the doors were going, in that, I didn't realise you, you were on a stage.

• 1:03:20Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:03:21Speaker 04

  This is what he says.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:23Speaker 04

  It was, um, the, when, back then, what they wanted was sensationalism.

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  All the time. They wanted something all the time. And I do believe, I do believe it was in some ways, uh, the most, you know, a very, very, very, very difficult psychotic experiment on twelve acts every year. Especially, it was an abusive relationship. If you were to take all of the parts of the show and say they control what we ate, they controlled where we went, they controlled how we thought, we didn't see our family, we weren't allowed to see our family until it was after the show on a certain hour.

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  Four, twenty minutes.

• 1:04:06Speaker 04

  If you were to put all of those things down and tell the police, they would say, oh, yeah, well, that's coercive control.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  You, you know, and, and so I wanna talk about welfare distinction, but before that, we, so Jermaine, you described, you said the character that was described.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  It's Jermaine, sorry.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Oh, Jermaine.

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  Yes, Jermaine.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Jermaine, okay, all right. So, and I'm sorry about that.

• 1:04:29Speaker 03

  That's all right.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  So, so then Jermaine, you were saying that the character that was described was one of you being worrisome.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  That was, that was what was the portray, uh, they were portraying you as worrisome.

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  Which everyone was going into the Odeon, like you're a little bit nervous.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and it seems like, and there were people who were more worrisome.

• 1:04:50Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  But you were portrayed as the most

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  worrisome. So then Lucy, what was, what do you believe your portrayal was?

• 1:04:59Speaker 04

  I was the bad, the bad girl for sure. I was the rebel. I was the naughty one.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  Um, I think because I had my own voice.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  I know, even just simple things like photo shoots, trying to control the way that she's looking.

• 1:05:16Speaker 04

  I remember they sent us straight away, um, as soon as they put us, as the, like the people that got through to the live shows. They said, right, now you, you, you, you, you're gonna go and have your teeth whitened.

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:29Speaker 04

  And they pushed us to go whitening our teeth.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  They only selected certain ones.

• 1:05:35Speaker 04

  And we went, we were stood in a line like we were in the military. And Julia Carter came up to each one of us and told us. I remember specifically to me, she went down the line, I don't know what was said to you, because all I remember is her standing in front of me and saying, you'll be a gothy rock chick. And she turned and walked this way. And I said, but I'm not though. And she turned back around like a, like a dinosaur.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  Like Miss Tranchard.

• 1:06:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. And came back to me and that was the beginning of our, we, we had some hair raising discussions, but you had, yours was the suit, like you were given a suit for every show, right?

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  This is what I find interesting is because I see how you show up today.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  And this is not like you, you, you were, you were portrayed. Miles, was your style edited at all?

• 1:06:35Speaker 03

  Hmm, no, not really. Um, so the meaning of Raksu, we, we used to be called tracks X suits. So the life that we want to live versus the life that we have to live. So we wanted to make music all day and wear tracksuits. But we have to go to work, so we have to wear suits.

• 1:06:53Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:06:54Speaker 03

  Um, and because we made it very apparent that that's what Raksu meant. Um, they kind of leaned into it a bit more.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  So there was, I think, George Michael week, for instance, we, I think I wore a purple tracksuit or, you know, the boys were wearing different coloured tracksuits or, yeah, it was kind of, our year was very much, do you like this? Do you not like this?

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  I'm beginning to see that there was a distinct difference between how you and Raksu were, were treated.

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  And how you both were, were, were treated. And I'm trying to understand the why. Was it lessons learned over the years? Was it further acceptance of, uh, people of colour, uh, music? Cause I, cause I wanna get into, what, yeah, what, what do you, what do you attribute the difference?

• 1:07:49Speaker 03

  It's a combination of everything.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  It's a combination of everything.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  They would have known how how hard and the traumas that they, you know, put these two through. You know, and and like you said, the earlier on, it was people were starting to latch on of course.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  You know, and contestants on the show would have, you know, started speaking up. I think there was.

• 1:08:14Speaker 03

  Social media was rising as well.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  Social media, there was more. I think there was even more contestants on a year had things.

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, those people.

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think they started to latch on to the fact that, you know, we can't have acts no more where we just take the piss out of them. And they're on solely for that, or, you know, we can't control what people want to wear now. And I think if you combine that with the type of people that me and the boys are as well. Like, I've grown up, you will never tell me what I'm to do.

• 1:08:44Speaker 04

  It's so funny, though, that you're like, you would never tell, I would, I would have.

• 1:08:47Speaker 02

  You would have.

• 1:08:48Speaker 04

  I would have so said that as well.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  But but the problem, the problem. The problem, but the problem was is that you went in by yourself.

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  Um, true.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  So they could capitalize on it.

• 1:08:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  Now, there was four of us here, and we are very strong minded, like yourself, but.

• 1:09:03Speaker 03

  You were in there like, let's find him.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  You was in the dogfight. You was in the dogfight by yourself. If if I didn't like something, I had three other people that would.

• 1:09:13Speaker 04

  It's so true.

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  Back me up, you know, and I think, you know, that's that's the the problem is that you went into the dogfight by yourself and and they, you know, it's like hyenas. Like, they're all like hyenas. Um, and then, you know, again, it was the music, the type of music. Obviously, we are four people of color. One from, it's got African heritage, one's born and raised in Barbados, one's Egyptian and one's half Jamaican. Like, and that our music was very much Caribbean, Afro, Latin American, like, inspired. And that was, our year was the time around um, CNCO. Were the biggest band in the world at the time.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  Just after one D, it stopped. So, you know, they they saw the money dollar signs tingling in in their eyes, you know, and it's.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  I think that might be the difference is that this is one of their winners. We won the choices.

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  And it's.

• 1:10:15Speaker 03

  So we were treated differently.

• 1:10:16Speaker 04

  I just think it was a different beast.

• 1:10:20Speaker 03

  Man.

• 1:10:21Speaker 04

  You're aware of the things that happened to me on that show at that time. Extraordinary, extraordinarily bad things that happened due to the lack of duty of care.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  Duty of care.

• 1:10:36Speaker 04

  Which they undoubtedly learnt lessons from, and at some point they had to listen to what people were saying, which was, if you carry on here, you might be become. These people may become a threat to you further down the line, and you probably want less of these.

• 1:10:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:55Speaker 04

  And I think five years on from from our year where, you know.

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  Huge change.

• 1:10:59Speaker 04

  This sort of thing that's happening with you and witness protection where there should have been a a so much safeguarding, so much safeguarding that didn't happen. That that eventually it it began to be put in into place. And and you see that in television now. You take part in something in some TV now, you'll see that it's a different beast.

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  Completely changed.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  Oh, it's completely changed. I mean, I've been in this space reality TV for probably ten years. And I've seen it dramatically change over over the ten years. But when you think, so it goes back to Miles, what you said, it's it's an equation of things.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  But to something John Main said, that I want to just.

• 1:11:38Speaker 03

  What did I say?

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  You said, follow the money, basically.

• 1:11:42Speaker 03

  Man.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  And and I and I want to just talk about that because when I look at this from the outside in, I think, well, if they knew that Roxu was going to win, why would you not lean into who they are? Whereas if you have other contributors or contestants where you're not sure if they're going to win or not, then let me mold, let me play. But if I know this is my group, then let them wear what they want to wear so they can.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  But they they did to an extent.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  They did?

• 1:12:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, because we was wearing tracksuits on the live shows.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  You know, we was, we wasn't wearing, you know, a suit because it was something that, you know, it was, that was the opposite of what we wanted to do and how we wanted to be musicians. I was trending on Twitter, um, and they capitalized on it, you know, and they then put me in a a a magazine and I was the twenty second hottest man in the world. Like, they.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Can I say, Miles, hold on?

• 1:12:39Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you. A lot's changed now. It was a long time ago, okay?

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  Um, but I think they just capitalized on it and and used it to their advantage. They they saw heart throbs and they kind of, yeah, even in when there was PR stuff, if um, I slept with with somebody on the show or somebody outside of the show, they would, they would run a PR thing on it. Because I was a heartthrob, like, you know, or the Playboy or whatever. And they knew that there was some serious safeguarding guidelines that they had to abide by in our year. They knew that X Factor was dying.

• 1:13:19Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  During, like, obviously, year on year, the viewership's just got lower and lower. And if they messed anything up, that was it, it was kaput. So I think, yeah, they, with us, they walked a very fine line and they compromised at every given opportunity. And that's why they let us do originals the whole way through.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  Okay. Did they, so when you look back, do you feel like they didn't necessarily edit your character? Did they, did they pull your characteristics and then just elevated a bit or no? They just showcased you how you were?

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they tried, they tried to give us a narrative.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  So they would, they would try to give us a, not so much a narrative, but so when you go into the rooms and you sit down, or you go just before you go on stage at the six chair challenge, I remember they put you on these big old music boxes, so they have like mixing desks in and stuff like that. Do you remember?

• 1:14:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, like cases.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, like big old pelly cases, right?

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  And um, we sat down and the producer would be like, guys, you seem so nervous. You seem really anxious. How are you feeling? Like, you're about to go in front of six thousand people at Wembley. How do you feel? And we was like, we're cool, man. But we're good. What's up? And they'll be like, no, guys, we need a bit more from you. Can you like, can you say you're really nervous, please? And then Jamal was like, do you know what? I can't be arsed with this. Like, he he couldn't be arsed. He was like, I just want to get this filming done and go in form. So it was just, I remember Jamal goes, I'm really, really, really, really, really nervous. Just look to camera. And it is like, I think from that moment on, they realized that we're not changing for you.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  We're not gonna, we're not gonna change for you. And actually, one of the people that said it was Simon. He was like, if anybody tries to change you, tell him to fuck off. Like, his words. Um, because I think he knew that the times had changed. I think

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  I don't know what your thoughts are on Simon, but Simon, Simon adapts in scenarios very well. And he can, he can almost see the future. And I think he he learnt from his experiences from five years before. And he knew that times, you couldn't act like that, and you couldn't have a TV show like that anymore. Um, so I think it was probably one of the first times where he was like, just do what you want to do, be who you want to be. Um, because the production team will try and, they will try and.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Try to push you.

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, big time, man.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Can we talk about judges then? Uh, since you brought it up?

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  And the reason why I'd love to go there is because when I was watching your audition, the Rexu audition, what seemed to be very clear was Simon was in.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  And over the course of the series, he seemed to be more in.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  He would say statements like, there's a, there's, there's a.

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  You're gonna be big in One Direction.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Yes, you'd be bigger than One Direction. There's this place for you that, and you could see that he was just, he was saying these things, but I felt like he believed.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  These these things. And to have that level of support must have been empowering.

• 1:16:32Speaker 02

  Like I just said, I think Simon's, he's a, he's a very good A and R. He saw, he can see.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Potential?

• 1:16:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, he can see potential, but he can see the trend where music is going. I think he's been very good at being able to do that.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:47Speaker 02

  Um, and with us, we was making time, we was making music probably a year, two years in advance. Um, just because it was a style of music that we was doing. Um, and I think he saw that. I, I really think he saw that. So I think there was no coincidence that he ended up as our judge. I, I, and I still stick to that today, like that ironically, we got Simon Cowell as our judge. I, I still find it a little bit too coincidental.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  Do you think he chooses who mentors who?

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  I think so. I think so. You know, he, he, like you said, he sung our praises from the get go. Um, and every time he saw us, he would spend a lot of time with us. He would, he would spend more time probably with us than other contestants. So I think it's, it's quite honorable.

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  But at the same time, it was like, I see what you're doing here. Like, I know that you see our future going somewhere or going far. Um, yeah. So I think, I think he always has a big master plan musically.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  Musically. And what, and what about the, the interactions off camera? Because it seemed as if there were, you know, uh, the judges wanted to be around you all.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  You know, maybe more so than others.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, even after the live shows, we would go have a beer with Simon in his room. Um, and he would constantly check in on us like, how you doing? You okay? Do you need anything? Um, did you get enough sleep? Did you go to the studio? Did you finish any songs? What are you like? He would ask us in advance, what, what ideas are we thinking of for the next week's original music? Cause we'd have to go to the studio straight after filming on a Sunday. We would go to a studio and produce, write, mix and master.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Right away?

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  So the show, you're talking about, so the show, uh, on a Saturday.

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  Or a Saturday.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  Or late Saturday, early Sunday.

• 1:18:57Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  You'd go, you wouldn't go to sleep?

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  No, we'd go, yeah, straight to the studio. For the next week, you'd have to present your song by, I think it was either Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm not too sure. Um, so we would have to, when the show finishes on a Sunday, we would jump in a car and we'll go to a place called Some Studios. Um, and yeah, we would stay there till five, six AM and we'd have to come out with three songs. Um, and picture them by Tuesday, uh, because they would have to sign off by Wednesday. And then we'd have to rehearse the song Wednesday afternoon. So yeah, week in, week out, we would have four songs every week.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  Without fail.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  And, and, and Simon was supporting the whole way through.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was. He really was.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  What about the other judges in your group's interaction?

• 1:19:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Nicole would be like, do you wanna come? Like it became a thing. It was like, oh, boys, do you wanna come to my room for a drink this week? Like, yeah, I think the only room we didn't go to was probably Louis'.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  Uh, he did it in a vice, but yeah, they were, they were all, they were all amazing to, towards us. Like they were, they were good people towards us. Um, some of the contestants, it wasn't that. Yeah, there was, there was one contestant that Sharon really did not get on with.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  Um, and they fell out like a lot of times and, but for us, I think, yeah, they were all good, man.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  They were all good.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  They were all good.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  All right. So this is, look, look at this. Jermaine, Lucy, what was your experience with the judges?

• 1:20:34Speaker 04

  Go ahead.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  I got lucky.

• 1:20:36Speaker 04

  Ah, you did?

• 1:20:37Speaker 03

  I did get lucky.

• 1:20:38Speaker 04

  And I'm so glad, by the way. No, I am.

• 1:20:40Speaker 03

  I think that's the only thing that probably pulled me all the way through. Me and Nicole just clicked straight away and she became my big sister. And we used to pray together, like everything that I needed in the experience was Nicole was giving me. So I was lucky.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Uh, can we even unpack that a little bit? How, how, how quickly did that relationship with Nicole form?

• 1:21:04Speaker 03

  As soon as she got to speak to me, she realized I wasn't what they were painting me to be. There's actually a line where she says balls to the wall or something called like gross and balls. And then later on she took it back. And she was like, you have bigger balls than anyone I have.

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  I underestimated the size of your balls.

• 1:21:24Speaker 03

  Yes. I was waddling, but it's some.

• 1:21:32Speaker 03

  But I think she realized and we just clicked and she's still my friend to this day. Like whenever she's here, she'll invite me to wherever she's the busiest woman that I know.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, look at that. Look at that.

• 1:21:43Speaker 04

  Talisa was lovely and I really loved the N Dubs growing up. I was such a big fan. I was really like, oh no, this is Talisa. But you would, uh, you would just be thrown into a room with them and then they would talk to you really personably, like you would.

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  Intimate.

• 1:22:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was very, you know, the cameras were on and then you were having this conversation like you had been mentored the whole time.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:08Speaker 04

  And, um, by this point, you understand the dynamic and you also become just like any abusive relationship, you are submissive and you become part of the storytelling yourself. You can kind of see it happening. You're watching from somewhere else.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Right. This out of body experience. Yeah.

• 1:22:28Speaker 03

  Oh, it's very, um, we probably both had a very numb experience for a certain time. You have to, to just get through it.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  Hmm. Okay. Okay.

• 1:22:37Speaker 03

  I didn't absorb any of the experience in at all.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  So in it, you're just going through the motions.

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  But were you, it was the same?

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it was, ours was more, so it was, there was no mentoring. It was like, do you wanna come for a drink? Literally, there was no, for us, there was no mentoring.

• 1:22:54Speaker 03

  We weren't allowed in the dressing rooms.

• 1:22:55Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:22:55Speaker 03

  There was none of that. Maybe, maybe Talisa.

• 1:22:57Speaker 04

  She did, like, I have to, for, on T's, yeah, T is a cool person and she really, she's, oh, loose, you know, always would happily come and sit. As a friend. And I think we connected on certain things and.

• 1:23:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:11Speaker 04

  But there were also times where I tried to leave, like this is another point, the judges' houses, they're not the judges' houses.

• 1:23:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, like we went to St Lucia and we're in this giant hotel, which wasn't Talisa's house, but the public, you know, she's in there as if it's in her living room and.

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  I forgot about that.

• 1:23:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a projection.

• 1:23:30Speaker 03

  I was in Jemara.

• 1:23:31Speaker 04

  Their story. And then, yeah, I, there are parts of them that is true and there's parts of them that, that are not true, that are fabricated. T is a good person. When I was trying to leave the show at times, yes, she was used as a tool to keep me coming back. And then even after the show, yeah, there were times that T was used as a like mouthpieces, like a really harsh way of.

• 1:23:58Speaker 03

  A poem.

• 1:23:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, she was, but again.

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  Just doing her job.

• 1:24:02Speaker 04

  Exactly. She was trying to stay up.

• 1:24:05Speaker 03

  She was a real one.

• 1:24:06Speaker 04

  She was a real one.

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay.

• 1:24:09Speaker 03

  And she was two years older than us.

• 1:24:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, I didn't realize at the time.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  Young when she was in the.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  I, I, I had no idea, you know, uh, we had Talisa as a guest and when she was unpacking her story and also what was happening to her while she was, was there at X Factor, I, I couldn't believe it. It, it was like a, a film. You know, um, and so I think at that age, to have that level of pressure, right? There, it, it's, it was incredibly challenging for her, especially because there, I feel like the judges to a certain extent are fighting for their careers as well.

• 1:24:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:46Speaker 04

  There was the classism that was happening right in front of you. When Gary Barlow turned to her and said something, something, all I can smell is your breath, fagash breath or something to her. On national television.

• 1:24:59Speaker 03

  And the gas, the gasp we gumped.

• 1:25:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:25:01Speaker 03

  Gasp we gasped.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Gasp we gasped.

• 1:25:04Speaker 03

  Gasp.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Can we talk about the C word? All right. Uh, this is.

• 1:25:11Speaker 04

  Classy, this one.

• 1:25:12Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Sorry, my mind wasn't.

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  Keep your mind pure.

• 1:25:17Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Uh, this is a topic that I've been incredibly intrigued by since moving to the UK. It's because I distinctly saw it right away. And I saw it not just when I walked around the streets, but I really saw it play out on television, right? So the BBC, this is 2020.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  The BBC's Creative Diversity Report stated that often those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are depicted negatively, fueled by stereotypes and seen as the object of ridicule. And we're talking about television.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  Uh, and when I look at TV, a lot of reality TV, what is becoming apparent is this whole, we're going to laugh down at you. We're, we're, we're going to laugh at you. We're going to pluck people from precarious positions. And we're going to make you the joke. Uh, and I'm not saying this is what happened to you all. I'm saying this is what I observe as a lot of television now. And this is a part that I'm becoming more and more disgusted by because I'm becoming more and more aware of it.

• 1:26:34Speaker 03

  Next in America, you love the triumph stories.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Exactly. In the US to that point is in the US, it's about how can we pull someone from obscurity? And then lift you up and cheer you up. Now.

• 1:26:47Speaker 03

  Then drag them down.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  And then drag you out later. Later we do this. But it seems like, it feels like it's different here. So what's your experience on that topic? Do you believe that that played a role in X Factor, right? Where you have this observation, cause when I look at your stories, one thing that connects me in terms of back, uh, uh, in terms of your personal experience and background is working class backgrounds, right? So working class backgrounds. So do you believe that the fact that you come from a working class background, that that adds to

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  the interest in how you can be portrayed then on, on television?

• 1:27:37Speaker 04

  It, it's about access. So the X Factor was like. It it is the story of Willy Wonka and the golden ticket, you know.

• 1:27:44Speaker 03

  We know you want it.

• 1:27:45Speaker 04

  How else, how else are you gonna get a record deal?

• 1:27:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Speaker 04

  What am I gonna go on knock knock on number three Dairy Street or whatever it is, say hello Sony? Can I have a record deal, please? So instead they said, come on, um, like, you know, the reason I say it feels medieval is because that was like how they were putting people in the stocks and people throwing fruit at them, like in medieval, in the Middle Ages. And people loved laughing at people, ha, ha, ha, you're so stupid, that sort of thing. It was always to the working class.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Hmm, and the the frightening thing is, is that the people that were throwing the tomatoes are also working class.

• 1:28:22Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  And it's still happening now.

• 1:28:25Speaker 02

  And then you have the big corporates that are all

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  making this machine work that the way that they want it to. You know, they were, they were free tickets to the live or six chair challenge auditions. Like you just apply for like in a little ballot thing. And then it's the working class people that are then going, get off stage, boo. And there's somebody there, like a producer there going, we don't like you. And then everybody else will then, you know.

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  Oh, echo.

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:00Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, I remember you just.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:01Speaker 03

  I remember you just triggered that.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:03Speaker 03

  And then it'll be somebody. They hand out signs to remember.

• 1:29:06Speaker 02

  There'll be somebody that will make everybody be quiet. They'll be like.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, the con pair.

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  Right now, please.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  So they would just mimic what they were, what was being said?

• 1:29:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, or somebody, yeah.

• 1:29:16Speaker 03

  It would be like a con pair that would be like.

• 1:29:18Speaker 04

  He's typing.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  Time to cheer.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:20Speaker 04

  Come on, everyone, ooh, ooh, ooh.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, even on the live shows, they have a hype man. So there'll be a, uh, an MC that will go on beforehand, make sure everybody's got the right energy in the crowd.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  Like at this moment, boo, at this moment, yeah, like, yeah, there's a hype man. Like it's, it's all so manufactured for TV. It's frightening.

• 1:29:41Speaker 04

  It is a bit like they put us in an arena and they're like, go on, fight. And then and people were watching and they, they need to see these people here, the Hunger Games overlords were like, aren't they all?

• 1:29:54Speaker 04

  But they can sing.

• 1:29:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they're gonna make us lots of money.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  But but only a few of them. And then the rest.

• 1:30:03Speaker 04

  Well, that's another story altogether.

• 1:30:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:07Speaker 01

  Can we talk about this contract? Is it, cause I, I love a good contract story.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  Can you describe what the contract signing process was like for each of you?

• 1:30:20Speaker 04

  We were in same room.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Oh, did you sign at the same time?

• 1:30:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, they just give.

• 1:30:26Speaker 03

  Mate, I remember it being hit onto the table.

• 1:30:29Speaker 04

  And it was this chunk of paper.

• 1:30:31Speaker 03

  You were in the top six, so it's just before the TV.

• 1:30:34Speaker 04

  Is that like before live shows?

• 1:30:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, just before, like you're in the, wait, top three, sorry.

• 1:30:39Speaker 04

  So we were.

• 1:30:40Speaker 03

  Of each category.

• 1:30:41Speaker 04

  We were in a room in London, boardroom, like exec looking room. We'd just picked our lawyer, who we could then ask questions to. But it's the first contract you've ever seen in your life.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  Looking like the Bible.

• 1:30:58Speaker 04

  It says things like territories.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, yeah.

• 1:31:01Speaker 03

  Universe and beyond.

• 1:31:03Speaker 04

  And you don't know anything. And it's also angled to you as if you don't sign this, then you will lose.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  And also I think mind state going into signing is important. So, and, and you're mentioning, this is right before live. So you're thinking, okay, my biggest opportunity has not yet come.

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  And when you go into this room, had you, had they given you the contract previously or no?

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  No, we hadn't pre-read it.

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  And your expectation, or the expectation is for you to read it in that room and sign it.

• 1:31:40Speaker 04

  I don't even think you're expected to read it, are you?

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  No, you.

• 1:31:43Speaker 03

  Trust what the.

• 1:31:44Speaker 02

  It's like twenty minutes before you have to go on stage or something. Yeah, it's ridiculous.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  Oh, really? It's right before stage?

• 1:31:48Speaker 04

  I was, was, did you have yours just before a performance?

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  Live shows.

• 1:31:52Speaker 04

  Are you joking?

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like an hour and a half of all live shows, yeah.

• 1:31:57Speaker 01

  There's a press component, and I know a lot of managers will lean into create, helping to create the brand. And they will work with press to do that. So at the beginning of the live shows, did you begin to feel as if press was ramping up?

• 1:32:13Speaker 03

  Oh, it was huge.

• 1:32:14Speaker 01

  It was, okay.

• 1:32:15Speaker 03

  Before you go out to sing, you have to do a whole press wall.

• 1:32:19Speaker 03

  So you're just talking your voice out throughout this whole, do you remember the press wall, just like digital spy?

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  Oh, digital spy, yes.

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  Like a whole hour, two hours of just press.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did not know that.

• 1:32:30Speaker 04

  What I remember.

• 1:32:31Speaker 03

  Before singing.

• 1:32:32Speaker 04

  But even before these, these press, uh, what they call, they have a name, press junkets or whatever.

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  Press junkets.

• 1:32:39Speaker 04

  It was, tell us everything about you, including all of the dirt. We need to know, we need to know it all, right? But you would tell them, right?

• 1:32:47Speaker 02

  Did you have to write it down?

• 1:32:48Speaker 04

  You'd have to write it down and give them this stuff that had remained buried for many, many years. And then all of a sudden, that stuff was, uh, out in the open.

• 1:32:59Speaker 04

  Anytime you, we, me and Ryland clicked onto this super early on. And you, we learned, you know, within the first week of the live shows, we were like.

• 1:33:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, that happened to me in Disneyland, when I said no to one of the songs. And I said, we've got Ella Henderson who's underage, there's children in the audience, I'm not singing about threesomes or whatever, what Katy Perry song it was. And in the room, it was like, fine, that's fine, we'll change the song for the group performance. And then somehow it was headlines, like I'm kicking up trouble.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:33:30Speaker 03

  For no reason.

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:33:31Speaker 04

  That is crazy.

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, it's just, yeah, this is, this is what my mind, when, when you were talking about, uh, Jamaine walking that, that line, all the press and talking out the voice.

• 1:33:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  That was before every live show.

• 1:33:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:46Speaker 03

  And you're there from six AM, you're like, you, and then put the food just before you would sing as well, so I wouldn't eat. I lost two and a half stone on the show. Like everything, the process was not good for singing.

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  Was, was, was not good. Now, when you walk through, that you're, you're being asked various questions.

• 1:34:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  And then obviously those headlines appear. Are there any headlines that still stay with you to this day that you remember from that time?

• 1:34:13Speaker 04

  Me and Ryland were like these horrendous troublemaking criminals. We were a law unto our own. We went out one night, we stopped a bus in the middle of the street. Um, we held everybody up on it. There were pictures of us in front of this bus. That bus was parked outside, they didn't have a driver in there. It was parked outside the hotel we all stayed in. We were messing around with the press, it would follow you around all night, like you go out for drinks and, and you would walk, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. All the flashes where you're like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:34:46Speaker 04

  Really disorientating. And then, yeah, we woke up and that's where the narrative of me and him and eventually we got thrown out of the hotel because this narrative was given to us that we were going out. We were told that the hotel staff had to tell, you know, had to call security and get us out of the reception. And that's just not true. If anything, Ryland is the friendliest person I've ever met in my life. He makes friends with every person, anywhere we went, that.

• 1:35:15Speaker 03

  Next, I tried to pin it out to be like alcohol, alcohol.

• 1:35:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:35:18Speaker 03

  Wasted.

• 1:35:19Speaker 04

  They honestly made us out to be a pair of devils.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:35:24Speaker 03

  And for me, it was a bubble, so you just looked on this floor in this hotel. Wasn't allowed to leave, so I don't remember anything from outside world.

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  You don't?

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  I, I didn't read any headlines or anything.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  So you'd know.

• 1:35:37Speaker 03

  Just digital spies, all I remember.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  So, so you, you had no idea what was happening outside of that bubble?

• 1:35:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:35:45Speaker 04

  Well, they took your, I'm quite sure that like phones and stuff weren't.

• 1:35:49Speaker 03

  Nearly were just, everything was very, you're gonna be on this floor in this hotel.

• 1:35:53Speaker 04

  And it wasn't just that you're on this floor in a hotel, there's a security guard sat. You, we had one floor of the hotel, the Corinthia, and there was a security guard sat by the lift. So anytime me and Ryland did sneak out, we did sneak out of the laundry, like.

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  Okay, so you were to sneak out.

• 1:36:12Speaker 03

  The staff quarters.

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  Cause that's what I wanted to know is, cause it, it's, you're there the same year, but have different experiences, drastically different.

• 1:36:20Speaker 03

  I think I'm used to isolation, so I was just fine being safe inside my room.

• 1:36:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

  And you were sneaking out.

• 1:36:27Speaker 04

  I've had problems with autism.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  So hold on, Lucy, you were not painted as a rebel, you are a rebel.

• 1:36:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay. Well, that's the thing, I think whatever you are, they will, you will be a caricature of whatever you are.

• 1:36:41Speaker 03

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:36:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, I didn't like to just say. Yes, I didn't want to do what someone told me to do. I've never in my whole life, but I've never been malicious and I've never been a troublemaker and I've never been uh rude or any of the things that I was made out of.

• 1:36:56Speaker 03

  It's not nice being cooped up.

• 1:36:57Speaker 04

  No, and.

• 1:36:59Speaker 03

  Without family, without friends, going through this extreme experience, you're just with a bunch of strangers essentially.

• 1:37:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:37:06Speaker 04

  You're isolated.

• 1:37:06Speaker 03

  Weird, isolated, completely.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, Miles, what what was what was your experience like? Cause you have your crew.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  What, uh, yeah, it was, is it the live shows you had a hotel?

• 1:37:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, hotel all the way through.

• 1:37:21Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, we had a house. So it was um Lionel Richie's house um in Southgate.

• 1:37:25Speaker 03

  Was he there?

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  You stayed at Lionel Richie's house?

• 1:37:31Speaker 03

  This is very random.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so all of the contestants stayed under one in this mansion in Southgate. Um, yeah, and you had security there. They kind of blocked off the fences with obviously mesh and like tar pooling and all of that stuff. Um, yeah, so it was, you was in your own bubble.

• 1:37:54Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  Um, but a lot like Lucy, I was just like, you know, I'm twenty minutes from Watford. If I wanna go home, I'm gonna go home.

• 1:38:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:03Speaker 02

  Um, and a lot of my P R stuff was self inflicted, like it was, I was just being a, yeah, I was, I was being a twenty five year old guy.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:38:13Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, so for me, the the P R was actually, they were protecting me.

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was, um, yeah, I I remember there was one person, I'll never mention their name, but there was one person that tried to fake a pregnancy. Um, and the P R team. Scandal. Called up Harley Street doctors straight away, um, said, is it possible, blah, blah, blah, gave them all context and there was like, no, it's physically impossible. Like, um, they were protecting, yeah, they were protecting me. And there was a time, I left the house once um, to go to my barber's um in Watford and I got absolutely rat assed. Like, I got so drunk and there was um a press guy that followed and I was throwing up outside his barber shop.

• 1:39:06Speaker 02

  Like, and they, they were just like, don't worry.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  We got you.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  We can make this disappear.

• 1:39:12Speaker 03

  We'll make it disappear.

• 1:39:13Speaker 02

  Like.

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  So they killed the story?

• 1:39:15Speaker 02

  Killed the story.

• 1:39:16Speaker 03

  So they have the power to.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  Story.

• 1:39:17Speaker 04

  Oh, let me tell you, they have the power to kill a story.

• 1:39:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  This is, this, I mean, the the um, the difference of each of your experiences, I find to be fascinating. And if I, if we had ten more people, it's probably ten more.

• 1:39:33Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you reflect on on that experience up until you you all left the show. What was a highlight, what was the highlight for you? If you could think back to a moment where you just are proud of. It was a feeling that you didn't know that you would ever have.

• 1:39:57Speaker 03

  I would say mine's not actually connected to the show, but the show jumped on it. So I was invited to perform at a Shooting Stars Ball. And Samuel Jackson was there and we formed a relationship, which later ended up being him doing a voiceover for my second album.

• 1:40:14Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:40:16Speaker 03

  And I was just like, in what world, in what world? But it was just weird to meet him. Humble, kind, this huge superstar, just like he's talking to me, remembering my mom's name, pulling out my chair at these balls and stuff. But we um kept a relationship through One For The Boys, this charity for male cancer.

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  My friend Sophia runs it. Um, yeah, I would say that's the highlight for me, being validated by someone outside of the X Factor bubble. American standard of

• 1:40:46Speaker 01

  Of excellence.

• 1:40:46Speaker 03

  Entertainment, yes.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:40:48Speaker 03

  And I was just like, if Samuel Jackson believes in me, I should probably start believing in myself.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  And and and Samuel Jackson, had he seen you on on X Factor?

• 1:41:00Speaker 03

  At that gig.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  That's where he's like, okay.

• 1:41:02Speaker 03

  And he had his camera phone out and I was like, oh my gosh, this is, this is a lot. Trying to process it.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's that's phenomenal. It's phenomenal.

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  I think this, the stand up thing for me is, you know, performing to at the XL Arena on the final in time of twelve thousand people or whatever it was and win it. And when they announce your name. Um, and I looked at my best mates and Ashley sprints down one walk, Jamar sprints down the other and then they come back and try and lift up the whole world and pick everybody up and, yeah, you you you forever chase that feeling of performing on a stage like that forever. And yeah, for me, it was, that was the moment when we won it and you just hear Dermot go, Racksaw. And you're like, what the hell have we just done?

• 1:41:50Speaker 02

  Like, you know, it's like, how many people have auditioned for the show and been on the show and then, you know, how many people have got through the next phase, the next phase, the next phase, and then to win it?

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:42:01Speaker 02

  And then to be the only band, male band to ever win it. And you're like, sometimes you've just got to throw a bit of like, we've done some stuff, man.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and look at this. I think the genre to uh that you all perform in, that was of interest to to me.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like we stayed true to our heritage. Like, there's, um, we've done a, we've done a song called Pantries in the judges' houses. And I spoke pato on it because my nan, growing up, I spent a lot of time living with her. Like, she only spoke to me in pato. And it's like, little things like that where, you know, we're, we stay true to ourselves.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  We stay true to our heritage and that was, that was kind of one of the most powerful things for me is that we we kept who we was.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:42:51Speaker 02

  Amongst all the hyenas trying to, you know, take their chunk out of us and try and make us do a cover or try and make us wear this or, you know, oh, you should learn how to sing. And like, oh man, we stay true to ourselves.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  So that moment when you were announced the winner, right, this is twenty seventeen, that was, that was the high, the highest moment.

• 1:43:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, cause I knew the party afterwards was gonna be crazy.

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  And they would be killing stories left and right. The whole press team was like, beware, Miles is out tonight.

• 1:43:28Speaker 02

  No, it was, it, yeah, for me, it was, all of our family was there. Um, so Jamal's dad still lives in Barbados and the day before the final, I said to Ash, or two days before the final, I said to Ashley and Mustafa, let's pay for Jamal's dad to come over, let's surprise him.

• 1:43:45Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  So we bought a ticket for Jamal's um dad to come over, uh kept it under wraps, didn't have a clue. I booked him into an Airbnb.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  Didn't know his dad was here. And then when we was filming, he's, he walked up in the XL Arena. Um, and the first ever time he had seen his son perform was gonna be the X Factor final.

• 1:44:05Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:44:06Speaker 02

  And he walked up behind the camera, hugged him. Jamal didn't know what to do. And it's like, for me, it wasn't just us four, it was mum's, father's, cousins, aunties, uncles, brothers, sisters, you know, and we kept, we kept it Racksu, we kept it a family thing and stayed true to ourselves the whole way through.

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  I could feel that. I could, I could feel that. That's a powerful story with Jamal's father.

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  Very, very.

• 1:44:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Um, Jermaine, the final.

• 1:44:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  I've, I've, I've now watched this several times. First is, did you believe you would get to the finals?

• 1:44:51Speaker 03

  I didn't think I was gonna make it past the audition. But the finals for me were probably when I was completely checked out.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  Just the whole experience was just numbing. I I used to call it a traumatizing blessing, but I'm not even sure the second part's true anymore.

• 1:45:10Speaker 03

  But I was just so exhausted by the end. Like I said, I'd lost two and a half stone, like I was getting shaky. I was just tired. And I remember, I remember crawling under chairs and tables in the final, I think it was Manchester, I think. And Nicole came in. And this is who I know Nicole to be, cause everyone keeps seeing this mic snatch moment.

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:35Speaker 03

  But before the mic snatch, this is who Nicole is. She kicked off her heels, lay down on the floor and prayed for me. And then gave me two gifts. She gave me a Bible and a cross from Tiffany. And that's when I was like, yeah, this is my, this is my sister in Christ.

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:45:54Speaker 03

  Like, she literally got down to my level, just forgot everything else and was like, are you okay? Cause I wasn't.

• 1:46:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the fact that she gave you these gifts, she must have noticed

• 1:46:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  that you were not okay.

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was flagging.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did anyone else notice or speak to you?

• 1:46:12Speaker 03

  Everyone else is there to prop up, to keep it going.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:46:17Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:46:18Speaker 01

  So so you get to the finals, you're not okay.

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  Um, but yet the show must go on.

• 1:46:25Speaker 03

  Show must go on. Before I sang Let It Be, I had no idea what the words were when I stood on that stage. I was like, I have no idea. It's a classic song, but I was on the stage and I was like, I'm just gonna open my mouth and hope for the best.

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:39Speaker 03

  I was just so checked out.

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Did you, you were so checked out, but did you want to win, or at that point, it truly did not matter?

• 1:46:48Speaker 03

  Here's the funny part. There was a book that was being made for the top three autobiographies. And that alone made me not wanna win. They threw this book together. We couldn't read it. They gave us like a chapter to read, couldn't read through. I don't think James read his. And I read mine. I was like, this is all incorrect. There's nothing factual in here. And that alone, and the fact that I was sick when I recorded my winner single. I was just like, I'm, I'm over it now.

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  And yourself.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  And I remember standing there with James in the part where they were gonna announce the winner and I looked up at God and I was just like, is this it? And the answer was no, this isn't it. This isn't what's gonna fulfill you. This isn't gonna complete anything. This isn't the beginning. It's not an end. And I was just content. And then James won and I was like, the right winner has won. He was ready for this, like. I don't think I was ready.

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, you were runner up.

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  And there's a theory among many that if you're the runner up, you'll become more successful. Then who wins?

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  If the machine behind it support you.

• 1:48:00Speaker 01

  If the machine behind you support, okay, okay.

• 1:48:03Speaker 03

  I I don't think I was supposed to get as far as I did. That's literally from people voting.

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  Okay, and that's from the community.

• 1:48:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  Showing up.

• 1:48:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:48:12Speaker 01

  And saying, we want him.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  I think the final was supposed to be James Arthur and Alejandro.

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:48:21Speaker 02

  I have the option in the, if you finish second, that they can choose to sign you.

• 1:48:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, they signed me and then tricked me into doing a cover album.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Can we talk about, you mentioned that everyone knows Nicole for the mic snatch moment, but not for praying with you.

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:41Speaker 01

  And giving you the gifts, this mic snatch moment. So when, uh, my, my wife told me that basically on TikTok, that moment has just been.

• 1:48:53Speaker 03

  Lived forever.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  It not only lived, but it's, it's like picking up steam.

• 1:48:56Speaker 03

  Weird.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So can we go back to that moment? Could you just give us a, a, a full breakdown?

• 1:49:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  Uh, I do have a photograph, if I could pull out a photograph on this.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  Okay. Miles wants to see it. All right.

• 1:49:14Speaker 02

  Oh, she snatched your mic, like fully.

• 1:49:16Speaker 03

  She took it.

• 1:49:18Speaker 02

  Was hers not working?

• 1:49:18Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:49:19Speaker 03

  Okay, let me take it from the tippity top.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Oh my god. Yeah, take it from the tippity top.

• 1:49:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  But go back, Miles, are you, are you not, have you not seen this?

• 1:49:27Speaker 02

  No, I haven't even watched my season.

• 1:49:30Speaker 01

  Okay, so you know, have no idea.

• 1:49:32Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:49:33Speaker 01

  Okay, this is good, okay. So can you take us to before this moment? So before you're walking on stage, what's, what's happening?

• 1:49:40Speaker 03

  So all the rehearsals went perfectly and I was out in the audience. So again, no more, no sound monitors, but they had given us in ears like nearly the end of the show, which you have to get used to. And there's three sounds, the one in your ear, the one in the room, the one on the TV.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:50:00Speaker 03

  In my in ear, I could hear Nicole saying, she was cussing, she was like, my mic's not working, my, my mic's not working. I've got to go out, my mic's not working. And this is whilst I'm trying to pitch myself and singing, like sing.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:50:11Speaker 03

  All I can hear is like backstage. So again, I'm trying to pitch myself, I'm trying to focus and act like I'm in the moment. And then Nicole comes out in the arena, no sound. On the TV, you can hear like a flat, no EQ'd mic. But in the arena, like we can't hear anything from Nicole's mic, so she's panicking. But she's a showwoman and the show must go on. But I didn't fully clock what was going on because I was still semi-panicking from hearing her in my in ears. So she waves me over.

• 1:50:45Speaker 03

  And yeah, she took the mic maybe too soon, but it's not a reflection of who Nicole is.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  She was panicking as well.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  Yes, she was panicking, she was trying to take control of the moment. But like she's a boss lady, like she's trying to make things happen. But instead of cussing Nicole, people need to realize, nobody came with a second microphone.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  If this is a music show.

• 1:51:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:11Speaker 03

  Why is no one coming up with a second microphone?

• 1:51:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:51:14Speaker 03

  They're just seeing this moment play out, which is a disaster in my mind.

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  Right, so, so she's holding on to her mic that's not working.

• 1:51:24Speaker 03

  So I think she dashes it on the floor and then we share our microphone.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's interesting, in, in this photo, she's hold, she's still holding on to her mic.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:51:32Speaker 01

  It's not working.

• 1:51:33Speaker 03

  She dashes it on the floor.

• 1:51:33Speaker 01

  She's, she's grabbing your mic.

• 1:51:35Speaker 03

  But I thought that she was going to take it and stop the performance at first.

• 1:51:39Speaker 01

  Ah, okay.

• 1:51:40Speaker 03

  That's what I thought was going to happen. So I kind of trailed off and I was like, cool, this is going to end and we're going to start again. But it's live TV and it's Nicole.

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:47Speaker 03

  Like the show must go on and she just started bowing out and I was like, oh my gosh, we're continuing.

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  So did you get, did they give you a mic?

• 1:51:57Speaker 03

  No, we had to share the same mic. Yes. And I was like, does my breath smell? This is Nicole Scherzinger. But, um, I just remember from then on I was thrown. Anything that came out my mouth after then was probably pitchy, it's not great because I'm just thrown.

• 1:52:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:14Speaker 03

  I'm like, this is awful. And Nicole was devastated afterwards.

• 1:52:20Speaker 02

  Was she fuming?

• 1:52:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was fuming, devastated, like she knew what this moment meant for me. Like this was the finals, if anything, it's like hindering my chances of winning.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:52:33Speaker 03

  But, um, yeah, she was devastated for me.

• 1:52:36Speaker 01

  What was the, or were you aware of what the audience's reaction was to that moment?

• 1:52:42Speaker 03

  In that moment, I was like, what is going on? I was like, do I, do I seriously have to carry on singing? That's what was going on in my head and I was looking around for a mic.

• 1:52:54Speaker 02

  Someone could have literally just ran on and gave her a mic.

• 1:52:57Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  There's like thirty mics there.

• 1:52:59Speaker 04

  When I play a show, somebody's already line checked the microphones on the floor ready for if this one fails. Like that's music.

• 1:53:06Speaker 03

  Weird, like it's something that in the music industry is prepared for.

• 1:53:11Speaker 01

  So what, what's the reason why you believe another mic wasn't brought on stage?

• 1:53:18Speaker 03

  It's a reality TV moment, they're thinking this is, they're looking at like, oh.

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  Tabloid.

• 1:53:23Speaker 03

  This is exciting.

• 1:53:26Speaker 03

  Whereas I'm just panicking internally.

• 1:53:28Speaker 01

  Right, and this, this goes to what, uh, you've all been talking about here is, is taking these moments, uh, that are highly traumatic. Uh, and then essentially adding fuel to, to, to the fire.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  And almost like be grateful for it.

• 1:53:44Speaker 02

  Yep. It's like. Classism.

• 1:53:46Speaker 03

  As a singer, that's, I take singing so seriously. Like I did not leave my hotel room because I was trying to preserve my voice. Like everything that I was doing was trying to preserve my vocals for the TV show. So when things happened out of my control that were messing up my stuff, I was just like, how is this fair in a singing competition?

• 1:54:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:54:05Speaker 03

  But my, my main thing is monitors on the stage.

• 1:54:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:09Speaker 03

  Just will always forever shock me.

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  That there are no monitors?

• 1:54:13Speaker 03

  No monitors.

• 1:54:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:16Speaker 01

  What an experience. When I look at your, for example, your, just your audition clips, let me see if I have it here. So for example, uh, well, Jermaine, your clip, just your clip alone for audition, fifty-two million. Fifty-two million.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  Lucy, fifty-two million. Again, it's, it's one of these, yeah, where, uh, I mean, Rexy was.

• 1:54:46Speaker 02

  Must be way lower.

• 1:54:48Speaker 01

  Rex, let's see here, uh, eleven million.

• 1:54:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:52Speaker 01

  Eleven, but, uh, eleven mil, I mean, you're talking about immortalized for, forever.

• 1:54:58Speaker 03

  And we don't see any money from that.

• 1:55:01Speaker 02

  Imagine fifty-two million. And how long's the audition? Probably three, well, five minute show.

• 1:55:08Speaker 03

  Like thousands and thousands of pounds.

• 1:55:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:55:11Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:55:12Speaker 03

  Tens of thousands.

• 1:55:13Speaker 01

  And that, and that's just one clip. There are multiple clips of your, yeah.

• 1:55:18Speaker 03

  And they re-upload them, like over the years they re-upload them.

• 1:55:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:23Speaker 04

  But it's, it's interesting to hear you say that about those, those clips because I know I've been able to, I'm, I'm doing my ninth album now, so I've had the opportunity to grow with everything and accept that these things stay there, but people aren't going to stick with that. And, um, like I know that it's been such an immense privilege to have carried on doing music and have been able to keep people along with me and they can see my change in who I am now and how I sound now and things like that. And I do wish that you'd had that same, and like, I think you will.

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  Hopefully.

• 1:56:03Speaker 04

  And I actually think that one day you're going to be like, oh, that's just part of the story.

• 1:56:07Speaker 03

  Weird. God willing.

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  God willing.

• 1:56:09Speaker 04

  God willing, God willing.

• 1:56:12Speaker 03

  And I've always been proud of you and your journey.

• 1:56:13Speaker 04

  I've always been.

• 1:56:14Speaker 03

  This is an inspiration for me.

• 1:56:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:16Speaker 03

  So let's do it how Lucy does it. Album tour, album tour.

• 1:56:20Speaker 04

  I have nothing else to add, like.

• 1:56:22Speaker 03

  I feel like, because I went so far in the show, you become synonymous with the show. So when people see you, they see X Factor, they don't see Jermaine the artist, when really, we're bigger than the show. Like we're the people that make the show what it is, we're the artists in the show, there wouldn't be anything without us.

• 1:56:39Speaker 02

  It's, it's nail on the head with that.

• 1:56:42Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:56:43Speaker 04

  But I'd, I only did three weeks, guys, and I still, are you the girl off X Factor?

• 1:56:47Speaker 01

  And, and, and, and still, you know, being only on for three weeks, can, can we unpack this?

• 1:56:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:56:54Speaker 01

  I, I have this.

• 1:56:57Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:56:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. This is incredibly profound book.

• 1:57:06Speaker 01

  And a question that is addressed, that I'd love to address, but we'll only go as far as you want to go.

• 1:57:14Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:57:14Speaker 01

  With this story is how you ended up exiting.

• 1:57:18Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:57:19Speaker 01

  Because it's interesting, there was a group, uh, that was talking right before, you know, here in the studio, right before, uh, you all came in and couldn't remember how and why you, you left.

• 1:57:33Speaker 03

  Can I just say whilst I was on the show, I had no idea either.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:57:37Speaker 03

  No idea.

• 1:57:39Speaker 01

  That's, well, I, I would say that's a surprise, but now after talking to you, it's not a surprise.

• 1:57:43Speaker 03

  Where, where is Lucy?

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:57:45Speaker 03

  Because this was like my ride of life. This is the person I'd be talking to like when we're waiting around.

• 1:57:50Speaker 01

  What, when, I'm, I'm, this is maybe a, a good segue into the story is when did you find out? And what were you told as to why Lucy left?

• 1:57:59Speaker 03

  When you told me at your gig years later, probably like eight years later.

• 1:58:05Speaker 04

  Maybe, yeah.

• 1:58:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, and she was bush. That's when I found out.

• 1:58:09Speaker 01

  So during the time.

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  No idea.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  There was no word?

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:58:14Speaker 03

  And which means I was robbed of the chance of.

• 1:58:19Speaker 04

  Oh, don't.

• 1:58:22Speaker 03

  Comforting my friend.

• 1:58:27Speaker 01

  I'd say what Lucy.

• 1:58:33Speaker 04

  You did it anyway.

• 1:58:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I think this is also what is incredible about this is that this friendship that you could argue maybe would not have happened.

• 1:58:44Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:45Speaker 01

  If it wasn't for the show. And I can see how much love that the two of you have for each other. And that's beautiful. And that'll be here forever.

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  However much you you want to share.

• 1:59:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I didn't have crying on my video card until you cried.

• 1:59:05Speaker 04

  I was the bad, the bad girl with Ryland. Ryland is one of the most spirited, wonderful human beings on this planet, as are you. And me and Ryland were the the bad kids. That was our story. We got thrown out of our hotel. The producers said to us, look, the hotel have said you have to leave. That wasn't really the case. It was Ryland's birthday party. We did what we always did. This is in the third week of the live shows. We went out and we got wasted. And they put us into like a budget hotel, which didn't have the the same security. It didn't have the same, you know, safety that as the hotel. I got

• 1:59:49Speaker 04

  paralytic at Ryland's birthday party. I was taken back by a runner.

• 1:59:56Speaker 04

  I was a runner under this arm. And there was a hotel porter from the budget hotel they put us in, under this arm. And I was taken up to my room. I was put on the bed.

• 2:00:09Speaker 04

  Ryland came home, came Ryland came back from his party, three o'clock in the morning or whatever. And something told him to check my door.

• 2:00:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:20Speaker 04

  And he pushed on my door and the latch had been put over on my door. And he came in and he checked if I was breathing because I was unconscious. And he shut my door fully. And

• 2:00:35Speaker 04

  the hotel porter that had been supporting me underneath this arm, he's the reason that door wasn't locked properly.

• 2:00:48Speaker 04

  It's hard to talk about sometimes.

• 2:00:53Speaker 04

  It's a good job Ryland shut that door because he came up later on with a key card to let himself into my room.

• 2:01:04Speaker 04

  And the next day I woke up and

• 2:01:08Speaker 04

  the cars are waiting seven o'clock in the morning. Come on, come on, get up, get up. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm pushed into this taxi. I'm like, Ryland, this thing, this thing's happened. And that guy just took control of the entire moment. And the police were called. Ryland went straight back to the room and stood outside the door, wouldn't let a cleaner in, wouldn't let a person in, said, don't touch that room. He went himself.

• 2:01:40Speaker 04

  And

• 2:01:43Speaker 04

  yeah, I mean, the story is intense, like, I can't really even explain to you how insane it was. But I was taken to another hotel, I was shot in a room.

• 2:01:57Speaker 04

  I, they told everybody that I was unwell. They said I could have one week off. The problem was, the man that did that, he was arrested. He was arrested because he had to use his key card to get back into my room.

• 2:02:14Speaker 04

  Had they not have had that, had Ryland not have shut the door, he would have not had to use his key card. He was an employee. And if it wasn't for Ryland, they wouldn't have found him. But basically, I was at high risk. And

• 2:02:32Speaker 04

  the man was high risk, which means that I had to take antivirals to stop me from getting HIV. If that was something, you know, those drugs make you super ill. And it was presented to me, I was like, you can take this pill and you're going to be sick, really sick. Or you can carry on. And my thing about me is at the time, I was like, I'll just carry on. I don't want to take that. I can't like, I can't throw this away.

• 2:03:06Speaker 04

  But that wasn't actually a choice. But my choice genuinely was like, no, I can't, I can't not do this. Tell everyone, tell everyone what happened and I'll carry on. And that's how like indoctrinated by that point I was, that like, I actually know I really don't want to be really unwell for the rest of my life. Oh, no, that actually just happened to me. I was too busy just being in it. And they took me out and they told the public I was unwell. And it meant that people came up to me in the street and said, I pissed your opportunity up the wall, didn't you? Bad hangover, that's why you didn't do it.

• 2:03:48Speaker 04

  And the press went along with that.

• 2:03:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, it was awful. It was awful. And there's loads more to it. But

• 2:03:59Speaker 04

  yeah.

• 2:04:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm gonna hug you.

• 2:04:08Speaker 03

  Look at you now.

• 2:04:08Speaker 04

  I know.

• 2:04:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, look at you now. Yeah.

• 2:04:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  You, what is, thank you. What I've, what I've realized, we've had so many incredible people on this podcast share some of the most traumatic stories. And what I've realized is what they do is they allow someone to feel seen and someone to feel heard. That and and those are moments that they have never felt seen or heard before. So in this moment, there's someone that feels seen and heard that perhaps never did before. So thank you for for that. What I, what I'm picking up now is how the story that was told of

• 2:04:55Speaker 01

  you being sick, it, it, it falls into the narrative of you being troublemaker, rebel, drink drinker.

• 2:05:08Speaker 03

  That's what I remember being pushed and being told.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Oh, really? And what was that?

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  That's just drinking. After she left. Weird.

• 2:05:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:18Speaker 04

  That was the narrative. Truly, truly, truly. That was the narrative. And the man was sentenced to thirteen years in prison. And because he was convicted, I had a right to anonymity, legal right to anonymity. So the entire courtroom was full of press. They all knew the stories. They all ran the stories just without just mentioning that it was me.

• 2:05:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:05:43Speaker 04

  But it was, she was, she was hungover. She did this, she did this. And because I wouldn't tell my story, you know, there was a time when we released another album, and the press came back and said, when Lucy talks about what had been happened to her in 2012, that's when we'll write about her.

• 2:06:03Speaker 01

  So there was a blackout, if you will.

• 2:06:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:07Speaker 01

  Of, of, of you.

• 2:06:10Speaker 04

  I, people will say, where did you go? You disappeared. And I did. And funnily enough, I had a, you know, top ten, my first album was a top ten album with Columbia, because that was contracted in. And then after that, could I get signed anywhere else? Absolutely not. Like, for some reason, everything went pitch black.

• 2:06:32Speaker 03

  Just blacklist then?

• 2:06:33Speaker 04

  Everything. I couldn't get anywhere. And, you know, like I said, this is my ninth album now. Well, guess how many of them have been on my own record label? Eight of them.

• 2:06:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:06:44Speaker 04

  Because when I couldn't get signed, I started my own record label and I started doing it that way because I knew what was happening. I'm seven years sober. And, you know, at the beginning, I said about it taking, you know, a big chunk of my life.

• 2:07:00Speaker 04

  You know, there were times that I just did not think that I was gonna survive at all. And there was no duty of care. I was never contacted after the final. I was never contacted again.

• 2:07:13Speaker 03

  Did they make you come back for the final?

• 2:07:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:07:15Speaker 01

  Wow, you were in the final?

• 2:07:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:07:20Speaker 03

  Because you do a group performance as like the finale.

• 2:07:23Speaker 04

  And they hadn't told anyone.

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:07:25Speaker 04

  What happened.

• 2:07:26Speaker 03

  So the media was the rebels back, essentially.

• 2:07:31Speaker 04

  It was, it was a crazy, crazy, crazy time.

• 2:07:35Speaker 01

  Lucy, what, what got you through?

• 2:07:38Speaker 04

  I don't know. People, I think.

• 2:07:43Speaker 03

  I think it's the heart that I met.

• 2:07:45Speaker 04

  Well.

• 2:07:46Speaker 03

  Her heart is too big to be squished or dimmed.

• 2:07:51Speaker 04

  I just think what happened was, I left the show and I was, I was a true underdog. I couldn't get signed anywhere. So I just went and started playing in a hundred cap venues. And then the next time I played again, it was a two hundred cap venue. And then the next time I played, it was four hundred. And the next year I played, it was a thousand. And, and I got myself to this fan base of just wonderful, supportive, lovely, lovely people who were there when I stood up on stage and cried my eyes out. And people read the book. And then they said, I understand all of the songs now. I read the book and I understand the whole discography. It's a different album now. I know the truth.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08:36Speaker 03

  And you're an incredible storyteller.

• 2:08:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08:38Speaker 03

  Always enjoyed that about you.

• 2:08:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08:40Speaker 04

  I just think you, you only have one life. And so you really, really must do everything you can to, to live there. It's a privilege to be here regardless of what you go through. And it's never too late. It's, it's literally never, ever, ever too late.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  What I don't understand, and this is for both of you, and I don't believe this applies to you males, but let me know, is I don't understand the blacklisting piece. Because you, you came in second place, phenomenal singer. Lucy, phenomenal singer. You were there for three weeks, but the audience stood behind you. So for what reason do you believe, and actually, I don't want to say that you were, you tell me, do you believe you were blacklisted? And if so, why?

• 2:09:36Speaker 03

  In ways, yes, I do. I think either the industry chooses you or they don't choose you. And if they don't choose you, they don't want you making money without them. So I was held in my contract for a few years whilst all the work dried up.

• 2:09:51Speaker 03

  And they just kept saying, would you like to make a cover album for Mother's Day? A cover album for Easter? And I was just like, is this what I am? Like, I'm just not taken seriously. Like, this is my whole life. My whole identity is this singer that I've become to overcome everything that I've been through. And you want to reduce me to just these cover albums? For these holidays?

• 2:10:19Speaker 01

  And so you were, it was a five album deal that you had?

• 2:10:25Speaker 03

  I think I asked to be let go eventually.

• 2:10:28Speaker 01

  But they held you. So in that five album deal, if they're not, and to hold means they're not putting out music.

• 2:10:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:10:34Speaker 01

  But you can't go anywhere?

• 2:10:36Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:10:36Speaker 01

  You can't perform?

• 2:10:37Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:10:38Speaker 01

  Can't put out merchandise? Can't do anything? And then as they're holding you, all those opportunities dry up because you're not continually putting out music.

• 2:10:48Speaker 03

  And then people are like, where have you gone? It's like, I'm just waiting to make music. But even with my first album, it was pitched to me so differently. So I didn't want to do a cover album. Obviously, that's like a death sentence as your debut album into the industry. But they were forcing it. And I remember a guy, he came in and it put everything into perspective for me. Because all he spoke about was how quick can we do this? So basically, how much money can we make? How soon? And I was like, oh, okay, I need to, if they're going to force me to do this cover album, let me do it my way. So what I suggested was, I'm going to do spiritual twists on songs that next to me. And I want to cross the bridge between America and here.

• 2:11:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:11:30Speaker 03

  And I'd already messaged people like Kimbo Ral. And she said, yeah, I'm on it. So I was going to message people like Kirk Franklin, Yolanda Adams, and the Clark Sisters. I wanted to bridge that gap because the gospel scene here at the time was kind of this small.

• 2:11:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:11:45Speaker 03

  It's not as big as America. So I thought, let me utilize this. And they agreed.

• 2:11:50Speaker 01

  Do they?

• 2:11:51Speaker 03

  They agreed.

• 2:11:52Speaker 01

  Those artists?

• 2:11:53Speaker 03

  No, the, um, label agreed.

• 2:11:55Speaker 01

  The label agreed, okay.

• 2:11:55Speaker 03

  Agreed to my idea. And I had Stevie Wonder on board as well.

• 2:11:59Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 2:12:00Speaker 03

  Yes. So all these people were like believing. Missy Elliott had messaged me back and said, yeah, I'm down.

• 2:12:06Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 2:12:07Speaker 03

  And they still wanted to do this cover album. So I said, okay, let's do this twist. And they agreed. So I recorded all my parts. And then at the end of that, they were like, we're just going to release it like this. And I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean like this? So I don't know if that's the label or my management, but somewhere along the line, I was, yes.

• 2:12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:31Speaker 03

  Because that would have been amazing, like the gospel crossover.

• 2:12:35Speaker 01

  Next level.

• 2:12:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  That's next level.

• 2:12:37Speaker 03

  And that would have been the whole part of me. Even the name of the album, Love Never Fails, is 1 Corinthians 13:8. Like, my whole intention was that.

• 2:12:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:12:44Speaker 03

  From the get go.

• 2:12:45Speaker 01

  Yes. So instead, they put that out?

• 2:12:49Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:50Speaker 01

  And then what's the result?

• 2:12:52Speaker 03

  It went to number one. But it's the most, I can't explain it. Like, I'm grateful for the support. But for that to be number one? I was, again, it was soul destroying. I was just not.

• 2:13:07Speaker 02

  It wasn't your idea of the way you worked.

• 2:13:08Speaker 03

  No, it just wasn't me. Every meeting that I had, I was just like, they just want to get rid of me quick.

• 2:13:13Speaker 01

  And what gave you that feeling that they didn't want you?

• 2:13:18Speaker 03

  The dismissiveness of anything that I said. It was like, oh, you're just, we don't need to listen to what he actually wants on these. This is what we're doing.

• 2:13:26Speaker 01

  Right, right. And so what I also find interesting is, this is 2013, well, this is after 2012. So X Factor as a platform is growing in popularity. So the audience is growing. It feels like that's a leverage point.

• 2:13:43Speaker 03

  Yes, it would make sense to invest.

• 2:13:45Speaker 01

  Right, but still met with nothing.

• 2:13:48Speaker 03

  And I've even had feedback from radio stations where it's like, oh, I love this song. This is for my second album. And then later on, it'll be like, oh, here's from X Factor. So this X Factor stigma comes in where you're not going to get the bookings, you're not going to get the radio play because you're from X Factor.

• 2:14:04Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, I thought it would work opposite.

• 2:14:07Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:14:08Speaker 02

  Oh, no, hell no.

• 2:14:09Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 2:14:11Speaker 04

  That's the thing.

• 2:14:12Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:14:13Speaker 04

  That's the thing.

• 2:14:13Speaker 01

  Wait, all right, why? I'm not literally just saying, I'm, I'm.

• 2:14:16Speaker 03

  We're not taken seriously.

• 2:14:17Speaker 02

  Not taken seriously.

• 2:14:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:14:19Speaker 04

  You're not a real artist if you came up that way.

• 2:14:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. You don't deserve to be on there either.

• 2:14:24Speaker 04

  It was always that. And I subscribed to that before I went on the show. I was like, oh, X Factor.

• 2:14:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:32Speaker 01

  But even if you place, though, you win, you come in second place, isn't that a stamp of national approval?

• 2:14:40Speaker 03

  It's a conveyor belt.

• 2:14:41Speaker 02

  From the, from the, from the fans, it is. So from your everyday watcher, like, if you've won the X Factor, you're like, oh, my God, you've won the X Factor. If you're inside the industry.

• 2:14:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're an idiot.

• 2:14:56Speaker 02

  You're an idiot. And you're a, like, not frowned upon, but you're like, oh, you're not worthy of, like, being in this room with me, kind of thing. Like, even with us, like, no, no, no producer or writer that we've worked with has probably watched X Factor. Um, but they know what X Factor is. And when we go into a session and we'd be like, I'll play the keys. Or I would write my verse. And Jamal would be like, oh, okay, it's cool. I've got a chorus, I've got a bridge. And the producers are like, what, you write? And we're like, yeah, we've been writing since we was 12 years old.

• 2:15:40Speaker 04

  But it applies even to me, who came on and sang their own songs and played the instrument.

• 2:15:44Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:15:44Speaker 04

  I still had it.

• 2:15:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:46Speaker 04

  I was still just, oh, X Factor. I, well, I know the first time, I've played Glastonbury three times. I know at least the first and second times, I was the only X Factor contestant who's ever played at Glastonbury.

• 2:15:57Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 2:15:58Speaker 04

  Because it's, there is a huge, huge stigma. And I do have a kind of an extraordinary position in the musical world that I do play. Why not? I do play, um, like, I do play those festivals that are indie festivals.

• 2:16:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:16:16Speaker 04

  And I play, like, big festivals. And I still have access to, like, being an X Factor contestant as well.

• 2:16:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:16:23Speaker 04

  Which is great for if you want to go and do a bloody, you know, Blackpool Illumination switch on, which I did the other day. But the same weekend I was doing cool indie festivals. But it is a cross to bear to be from the X Factor. People think it's good. It is not.

• 2:16:41Speaker 01

  It is not. So then on that note is, Miles, when did you realize it was not good?

• 2:16:47Speaker 02

  No, again, we, we, we knew. And everyone, when you're on the show, people talked about the X Factor stigma. Like, everybody talks about it. Like, it's like, oh, if you win the show, how are you going to kind of, you know, separate yourself from X Factor?

• 2:17:03Speaker 03

  And then experiencing it.

• 2:17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, it's, it's one of those things that you know of when you're on the show.

• 2:17:09Speaker 01

  One thing that I will say that stuck with me in this conversation is you've said a few times, oh, yeah, everything through to the time that we left was good. So how would you characterize your time after X Factor?

• 2:17:28Speaker 02

  Um, it was a roller coaster of emotions. From the highest highs to, you know, straight after the show, going to America and there's, you know, in L.A. and getting stopped in L.A. And, you know, there's artwork at, you know, where, um, Santa Monica.

• 2:17:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:17:54Speaker 02

  And, you know, like, all the, like, the stores they have along the, on the beach.

• 2:17:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:17:58Speaker 02

  It's like, people selling pictures of Rakju on there, like, the highest highs. And then there's the lowest lows to taking overdose non-Zanex bills. Like, yeah, a, a, a roller coaster of emotions, man. And it was, that's when I realized the music industry is the most brutal industry probably out there. Um, yeah, you, you, you become a piece of this machine and a tiny little piece of this machine. And they'll take everything from you. They'll take your, you know, they'll leave you soulless. Um,

• 2:18:43Speaker 02

  if you're, especially if you're not careful.

• 2:18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Can we talk about how the pressure got to you all? Because inside of X Factor, what you also said a few times at When I Clock was how safe you all were because you were friends that had grown up with each other. So you still remain friends after X Factor.

• 2:19:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:04Speaker 01

  So how was it that the pressure post-X Factor got to you all?

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  Um, because you're not in a, again, and, um, you're not in a bubble. Like, we wasn't protected. You know, we, there wasn't a, you're on the TV week in, week out. And your songs aren't going into the charts. And, you know, you're kind of, in a way, big fish. You know, and.

• 2:19:36Speaker 02

  The, you're, yeah, you're protected. You've got somebody that is, you've got someone like Simon Cowell that is saying, boys, do what you want. Just have fun. Do what you want. Stay true to yourselves and, you know, do what you want. And you, you become super comfortable in the people that are working on the show, the, whether it be the runner, whether it be a producer. You know, because we was always nice to everybody. So we knew that we were safe. And then the moment you leave the show, you are shipped off. You don't see anybody. You don't see any, you probably see one or two people from the show. Didn't even see Simon. I think I saw Simon once after the show finished. Um, and

• 2:20:21Speaker 02

  you were thrown into this big machine and you're meeting faces that you've never met before that are saying, oh, I think you should do this song. I think you should try this song. You know, and you're, you're met with, you know, conflict the whole way. You know, and like, like we were saying, like, writers don't really respect you because you've come off of X Factor.

• 2:20:43Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:20:44Speaker 02

  Producers don't really know that you can produce. Now, I've been producing since I was fourteen years old. You know, I know how to work logic probably better than the producers that I got hits out there.

• 2:20:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:20:55Speaker 02

  At this point in time. Um, and then at the same time, you've, you've just signed a three sixty deal and, you know, you're paying everybody's way.

• 2:21:05Speaker 01

  Yes. And, and, and on that, uh, something that you, we were talking about off camera, but I think you should share it is, um, the, uh, the video story.

• 2:21:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:21:15Speaker 01

  Because I think that illustrates how quickly the money goes.

• 2:21:18Speaker 02

  Hmm. Yeah. And it, so

• 2:21:23Speaker 02

  we, first off, we went to Los Angeles in April to write with a writer called Ali Tamposi, incredible writer, written for everybody. Um, and we got put into a few other sessions. Um, and there was a writer there, um, who's a big artist now, who's having their moment right now. I'm not going to say who it was. Um,

• 2:21:53Speaker 02

  but we sampled, um, Freak, Freak Like Me. Um, and.

• 2:22:02Speaker 03

  The Adina Howard. Yeah.

• 2:22:04Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Adina Howard. Yes.

• 2:22:06Speaker 02

  Um, and we, we sampled that and we was like,

• 2:22:12Speaker 02

  we didn't want to do that song. We was like, we've written all of our own music.

• 2:22:18Speaker 02

  Why are we now doing an interpolation of Adina Howard's song? Like, it just doesn't make sense.

• 2:22:22Speaker 03

  Which has been done quite a few times.

• 2:22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:24Speaker 03

  Sugar Babes.

• 2:22:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, Sugar Babes. Yeah.

• 2:22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And we was like, okay, do you know what? To a pizza label, we'll just record this song. Like, that was the first step. Anyway, we, for months and months and then we said, once the mellow has had its time in the charts, once it comes out of the top ten, let's release a song straight away. The week after we won the show, we had a song called Birthday, which was, that would have gone number one everywhere.

• 2:22:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:22:54Speaker 02

  Um, it was written with the same and produced with the same camp that we wrote the mellow with, that we wrote, um, Mamacita, that we wrote, all of our songs during the show. Um, and for months and ends, there's also an X Factor saying is that when you win the show, you can't release a song till a year later.

• 2:23:17Speaker 01

  Why?

• 2:23:17Speaker 02

  And it's a real thing. Um, because they want your first single appearance to be you showcasing it on X Factor the following year.

• 2:23:25Speaker 01

  Ah, I see it. Okay.

• 2:23:26Speaker 02

  Um, so, anyway, so we recorded this song and label were like, this should be your next single.

• 2:23:37Speaker 02

  Do you want to go to Antigua to film it? We was like, okay, sick. Cool. Um, we got the record deal, obviously, and they were like, okay, obviously, all the money is going to come out of your record deal, pay for it and pay for everything. Uh, we was at the airport getting ready to go to Antigua. And we, the boys were in economy. And obviously, when you jump on a plane, the first class go and then the business class go. We was like, okay, cool. We're in economy. We're going to Antigua. We're gonna, you know, have a great time filming our first ever, you know, overseas music video.

• 2:24:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:24:16Speaker 02

  We walked on that plane and we walked past every single cameraman, director, A and R label, management. All of them are in first class. All of them. There was probably nine or ten people in first class and we are walking past all of these people that we have paid for out of our record deal.

• 2:24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:39Speaker 02

  And we're going to economy.

• 2:24:42Speaker 01

  My blood. Yeah. Just wild.

• 2:24:44Speaker 02

  And I'm six foot three.

• 2:24:48Speaker 02

  Now.

• 2:24:49Speaker 03

  He's taking the luggage.

• 2:24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:51Speaker 04

  It's actually a great metaphor or analogy for the music industry in general, if you think of that visually. As you're walking onto a plane to go somewhere to do some work and everybody that's, that's actually not in the band is sitting in first class.

• 2:25:05Speaker 02

  Sitting in first class.

• 2:25:07Speaker 03

  On your dime.

• 2:25:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. For us, that, that was kind of the, one of the downfalls to our trajectory is that they overspent massively on the most pointless stuff.

• 2:25:21Speaker 04

  This is such a good point that I have thought about is that when you're on the show, you're in this lavish, incredible life where everything is given to you. This is what being in the music industry is. This is how it is. It's really not. And you come back down, they expect you to just be living this lifestyle and then they drop you off a cliff. And you're at the bottom of this cliff going, what's happened?

• 2:25:44Speaker 01

  Havoc, right.

• 2:25:44Speaker 04

  How do I navigate this now? I've just been cooked. Every single meal has been in the hotel. Like, what, now you want me to?

• 2:25:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:25:52Speaker 04

  Hmm. And the option then is go and be a musician and you say, I don't really know how to do this because no one taught me. Or you can go back on your tools, go back to the building site or go back to the office where you used to work and everyone will go, aren't you that scared?

• 2:26:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, from, yeah, from that thing over there.

• 2:26:09Speaker 04

  And you can't, you can't, you can't walk the line between the two. It's impossible. And that, no one really ever considers that. And, you know, it's one of those things that people go, yeah, but, and you're like, no, it's actually quite hard to fade back into obscurity when no one will let you.

• 2:26:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:26Speaker 01

  Yes. But isn't this where management, like, this is the whole point of signing that management deal? Oh, no, no. You all didn't sign the management deal, but then you must have signed a management deal.

• 2:26:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I think we had, we went into the Sony offices. Was it Dairy Street, wasn't it?

• 2:26:43Speaker 04

  Dairy Street.

• 2:26:44Speaker 02

  And four different companies came in, uh, management companies came in. And I think one was into talent, one was modest. Um, I can't remember the other two. Um, and we ended up signing with modest. Um, so modest managed, um, One Direction, Little Mix, uh, Ollie Murs, um, Michael Jackson at one point, like, yeah. And then that just, that just opened a can of worms. That just, yeah, that signing with them and signing with Psycho was probably the worst thing that could have happened to Raxi.

• 2:27:26Speaker 02

  And us as humans.

• 2:27:27Speaker 01

  And why?

• 2:27:30Speaker 02

  Um,

• 2:27:32Speaker 02

  so

• 2:27:35Speaker 02

  we got caught in a crossfire, um, that had nothing to do with us. Um, it was to do with writing credits. One of the CEOs of modest used to be Simon Cowell's manager back in the day before Simon Cowell became who he is today. So there was a, you know, a multi, probably, well, near billionaire kind of cock swinging contest.

• 2:28:01Speaker 01

  I see.

• 2:28:01Speaker 02

  Um, and it was like, we got, you know, we've been given an ultimatum for nothing that, you know, we didn't even know about. So Ashley wanted to stay with Simon. Me and Jamal were like, and I still stand by it, although it was probably the wrong decision. We was like, how can you give us this ultimatum? How can you look us in the eyes after all that we've done for you on the X Factor show? You know, after, you know, somewhat revitalizing the show. Um, and you're giving us an ultimatum. So I was very much like, let's go with management.

• 2:28:41Speaker 01

  All right. You were hurt.

• 2:28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was hurting and I, I still am to this day. I was like,

• 2:28:47Speaker 02

  it, it made me realize that the industry is a real business. It's not, we're not here to, they're not here to listen to your music.

• 2:28:54Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:28:54Speaker 02

  No A and R is.

• 2:28:56Speaker 03

  They don't care about your artistry.

• 2:28:57Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 2:28:58Speaker 03

  They don't want to build you as an artist.

• 2:29:00Speaker 02

  How much money are you bringing to my table and am I going to eat off of it? Like, and that day made, really made me realize that, is that Simon Cowell is worth seven hundred and fifty million quid or whatever he's worth. So he can throw us in the bin. Because he's, he's set. He doesn't need to do a thing. Doesn't need to be in the music industry no more. So we decided to go with modest on majority rules. That's what me and the boys always do is majority rules. Um.

• 2:29:29Speaker 01

  And this time, uh, is it Mustafa?

• 2:29:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:32Speaker 01

  Had, had left.

• 2:29:33Speaker 02

  He had left. Yeah. Or on the verge of leaving.

• 2:29:38Speaker 02

  Uh, um.

• 2:29:43Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 2:29:47Speaker 02

  He had some real troubles. And it started from the show, and this is the one thing that I'll never be thankful for the show for. And this is the one thing that I wish I never let him be a part of the show.

• 2:30:02Speaker 02

  And seeing it firsthand where I'm trending on social media. And I am getting this twenty second fucking hottest man in the world. But then your best friend's being, um.

• 2:30:20Speaker 02

  Your best friend's being slated and there's nobody protecting him apart from us three.

• 2:30:27Speaker 02

  And it continued during the label. The label would be like, why is he coming to studio sessions? And yeah, he didn't sing or he didn't rap. Um, and that really affected him, really affected him because he had been slated the whole process through the X Factor and nobody was there to be like, don't worry, man, you, you, you know, outside of us three, like,

• 2:30:53Speaker 02

  don't worry, you, you're, you know, you're the dancer, you're the beatboxer. He's probably one of the main reasons that Raksu started in the first place, way before I even joined.

• 2:31:06Speaker 02

  And yeah, he went through, he, he went through some.

• 2:31:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. He moved country, let's put it this way. And I haven't spoken to him too much since.

• 2:31:18Speaker 01

  You haven't?

• 2:31:19Speaker 02

  No, because it's a, it's a, it was very fucking dark, man. Very fucking dark for all of us and for him, you know, it's, it's, that's one thing I'll never be thankful for the music industry or X Factor for.

• 2:31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:36Speaker 02

  And yeah, that, that was one of the hardest things, seeing that.

• 2:31:40Speaker 01

  I, I, I, I didn't realize this was happening at, at the same time. It's something that I could have guessed when I see, because I see this with so many groups where you see one person from the group completely elevated. And then what ends up happening is there becomes a pecking order.

• 2:32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:02Speaker 01

  And then there's immense pressure placed on, you know, on, on the others.

• 2:32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:08Speaker 01

  Um, but what I'm, I'm sorry to hear is that, that you haven't talked to someone who you probably knew since you were.

• 2:32:14Speaker 02

  He's my, he's my best friend and I saw him last month at David Lloyd. He was randomly back in the UK.

• 2:32:21Speaker 01

  Wow, look at that.

• 2:32:22Speaker 02

  And we bumped into each other and there was,

• 2:32:25Speaker 02

  you know, there was. Yeah, he, he's, he's in a better place now.

• 2:32:32Speaker 02

  But it's something that we do need to speak about, like all of us separately, one by one with him.

• 2:32:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:32:39Speaker 02

  Um, because it's just, it was, it was, it was dark, man. And

• 2:32:46Speaker 02

  yeah, it was really weird seeing the pecking order. I could tell you the pecking order now, like it was me, Jamal, Ashley, then Mustafa. Yeah, and it was like, it didn't need to be there.

• 2:32:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:32:56Speaker 02

  You know, and Ashley dealt with demons because he felt like he wasn't the face of it.

• 2:33:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:33:04Speaker 02

  And he wasn't deemed the best rapper.

• 2:33:07Speaker 02

  And he wasn't the singer. And he didn't feel worthy. And

• 2:33:14Speaker 02

  it was hard seeing him go through it mentally. And then I went, I went through my own different demons because I was the face of Raksu, which the boys put me as, like, we knew there was a pecking order whilst we was on the show. And I went through my own demons because everything I did was scrutinized and it was under a magnifying glass. But nobody tells you this when you're on the show. When you come off the show, you are thrown in the deep end, straight away. You know, and you're not taught with how to, to cope with it. You're not taught how to cope with fame. You're not. You know, I'm taking my, at the time, twelve year old brother to the Watford Shopping Centre and

• 2:33:56Speaker 02

  security have to shut down the whole bottom half of the shopping centre because I'm walking through there. Nobody prepares you for that. And there's four thousand people running in and crowd surging. And then they have to, you know, I'm with my twelve year old brother.

• 2:34:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's just nobody prepares you for it.

• 2:34:15Speaker 01

  Well, first, thank you for sharing that, because I didn't know that story. I didn't know that. And I, and I know that, um, that was weighty to, to talk about. It's very personal. So, so thank you for that. The, the other part of that story that really hits me is, and I also, this is connecting to some of these notes is, from what it sounds like is, as Raksu, you put out music. But the album, you can put out the album.

• 2:34:46Speaker 02

  We've never done an album.

• 2:34:51Speaker 02

  It's a sign of the times.

• 2:34:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, thi- this is, as you were talking, I was thinking, yeah, where's the album?

• 2:34:58Speaker 02

  Never done it. Next year's our first ever album.

• 2:35:01Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:35:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:02Speaker 03

  Congratulations.

• 2:35:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 2:35:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, our first ever album on our terms, funded by us, no management, no distributor, no, nothing. It's no label.

• 2:35:16Speaker 02

  It's our album.

• 2:35:17Speaker 01

  Wow. Twenty twenty seven is going to be Raksu's first album.

• 2:35:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's crazy, right?

• 2:35:25Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, that just, it doesn't even add up to me. You know?

• 2:35:30Speaker 04

  I got a caveat this with, there are good people in the music industry. They're just not in those buildings.

• 2:35:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:38Speaker 04

  There are great music distributors. There are great managers that you can trust.

• 2:35:43Speaker 01

  I hear you. But what I love, what I feel is, is that the three of you are now stronger than you have been in the past. You know, and you have now a bright outlook as to what the future is go, it holds with regard to your artistry. So I know there is something coming from you.

• 2:36:09Speaker 02

  From me?

• 2:36:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:36:11Speaker 02

  What do you know?

• 2:36:11Speaker 01

  I, I mean, I want you to tell me. There must be.

• 2:36:14Speaker 02

  I do have music ready to drop.

• 2:36:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:36:17Speaker 02

  So I'm hoping to drop it, but I just need to build back up. Because I was touring into lockdown and then that just cut everything off.

• 2:36:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:36:26Speaker 02

  But I was building nicely.

• 2:36:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:36:28Speaker 02

  And then lockdown kind of stole all the traction that I had.

• 2:36:33Speaker 01

  So now is the time for the?

• 2:36:35Speaker 02

  Rebuilding.

• 2:36:35Speaker 01

  The rebuild?

• 2:36:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:36:37Speaker 01

  All right.

• 2:36:37Speaker 02

  I'm ready.

• 2:36:38Speaker 01

  All right. And you, you know, one thing that I can tell is you are in your fullness. You're in your, it's the state of authenticity. And most importantly is that you're not going to bend from that state. I don't think there's anything that's going to bend you from that. And that means that you're now walking in the path that you should be walking in. Yeah, and that's beautiful.

• 2:37:02Speaker 02

  It took me a while to get here. I almost lost myself along the way. Like, I was just gonna finish everything, but had to carry on. And it's a beautiful thing to carry on. There's so much more to learn, so much more to achieve.

• 2:37:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:37:20Speaker 02

  So much more to sing. I'm excited to sing.

• 2:37:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:37:23Speaker 02

  I want to grow out of being Jamaican from the X Factor. It's time.

• 2:37:28Speaker 01

  All right. All right.

• 2:37:30Speaker 02

  And I'm ready for it. I don't think I was ready before. I'm ready now.

• 2:37:36Speaker 01

  When we came up with this, this idea for the round table, having the first round table of, is of course important. So I put now that for a single, you know, and I had no idea how this conversation would go. And when I started to think about how it could go, this has surpassed my expectation on how it could go because it felt real. It felt raw. There was lessons that not only those watching will be able to pick up, but that I picked up, that you all, I can see you all have picked up. There's mentorship that's happening. Right? I can see a group maybe forming. I don't know.

• 2:38:17Speaker 01

  If you could go back to when the producers said you were through auditions to the judges, would you go through with it?

• 2:38:26Speaker 02

  Me first? Yeah.

• 2:38:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:33Speaker 03

  I think I would be better off if I didn't.

• 2:38:37Speaker 03

  I would be further along in my career by now. If I didn't go on the X Factor.

• 2:38:46Speaker 04

  I have been asked similar questions and I just always have to say, I can't even spend time thinking about it. Because this has been the only life that I got to live. All the trauma included as well. And like, I love my wife, I love my life. I love me. And I just genuinely wouldn't have been me. If I had not taken that call and said yes. So I can't think about hypothetical past questions. Because I've just got to be me and just say, everything that happened. God's will.

• 2:39:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:39:23Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Even how you answer that, that was a rebellious answer.

• 2:39:31Speaker 01

  She said, I'm not even gonna answer that question. Give you my answer, I love it.

• 2:39:35Speaker 03

  But hindsight's always a great thing.

• 2:39:37Speaker 01

  It is, it is, it is. All right, next one.

• 2:39:42Speaker 01

  So there are rumors circulating that the X Factor is making a comeback. Knowing everything that you know through all of the experiences that you've had. Do you believe it should?

• 2:39:56Speaker 03

  I think they need to be more upfront. With what they actually want. They want a pop act. So don't take on.

• 2:40:06Speaker 03

  Like soul, gospel, R and B, jazz. Don't take on things that you can't grow and you can't harness. Take on your pop acts.

• 2:40:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:40:16Speaker 03

  Because that's what they know how to do.

• 2:40:20Speaker 01

  Okay. So, so do you think it should come back?

• 2:40:27Speaker 03

  Um.

• 2:40:29Speaker 03

  My assumption would be if it came back, it's completely overhauled. Like from the inside out, it would have to change. That's the only way it would be able to come back.

• 2:40:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:40:39Speaker 03

  I think it's nice to have some, a platform where singers can be showcased. It just needs to be a healthy platform.

• 2:40:48Speaker 01

  Hmm. That's strong. Okay. Okay.

• 2:40:56Speaker 01

  Miles, do you think the X Factor should make a comeback?

• 2:41:01Speaker 02

  I think the times are gone of people sitting down on a Saturday night and watching primetime TV.

• 2:41:10Speaker 03

  Man.

• 2:41:13Speaker 03

  It won't be the same.

• 2:41:14Speaker 02

  It will not be the same. It would be detrimental to the people that would go on the show. Because I don't believe.

• 2:41:26Speaker 02

  TV channels or the people working behind the X Factor. Have the capacity to be able to care for the people that would be on the show in the way that it would be needed, especially in today's age. Um. Specifically because of social media. You know, TikTok is so powerful nowadays. And. And I think.

• 2:41:52Speaker 02

  A level of care for a TV show like that. In today's age, especially if it's live TV.

• 2:42:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:42:03Speaker 02

  Is you, it's just, it's just not practical.

• 2:42:06Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:42:06Speaker 02

  You know, um.

• 2:42:09Speaker 03

  It would have to move to like Netflix or something.

• 2:42:11Speaker 02

  It would have to move to Netflix where people are truly protected. And they expect this big magical record to own. In actual fact, they could have gone on TikTok, released the song and it'd gone viral and. Probably got a better deal somewhere else.

• 2:42:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:42:27Speaker 02

  Or done it independently.

• 2:42:28Speaker 01

  So now Lucy, do you think it should?

• 2:42:31Speaker 04

  I think it's a sleeping giant if the format's right. If it comes back on TikTok, if they do some kind of deal with a live stream, regardless of the format. I think it should, I think there's a place for it. Um, access to the music industry. But tell people about what else there is that you don't have to be in an arena to be making money. Teach them about. You know, working from the ground up.

• 2:42:59Speaker 03

  Wow, there, okay.

• 2:43:01Speaker 04

  I just think it's a lack of education. Therapy, safeguarding. All of these things, you know, listen, if they come back on, if they want a safeguarding advisor, I know a girl.

• 2:43:17Speaker 04

  I think there's a place for it. I think fame destroys everybody in one way or another. Navigating it is not a one size fits all thing. People have been destroyed from Love Island, people have been destroyed from X Factor, even Popeye back in the day. The fame is the hard thing.

• 2:43:38Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 2:43:39Speaker 01

  All right, surprising answers, surprising answers.

• 2:43:44Speaker 03

  It's because we're artists and we know that how much platforms matter.

• 2:43:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:43:48Speaker 03

  Like we need them. But just healthier.

• 2:43:52Speaker 01

  But healthier.

• 2:43:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:43:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43:54Speaker 03

  Teach us something on the journey, don't just drag us through it.

• 2:43:57Speaker 01

  Right, and, and profit from it.

• 2:43:58Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:43:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the whole conversation really has been.

• 2:44:05Speaker 01

  Unforgettable, unforgettable. And that's not just for me, that's, that is, I can already speak for, um. The majority who will be watching is unforgettable. Thank you to the three of you for what you've gone through. You've had to walk through the fire.

• 2:44:25Speaker 01

  So others won't.

• 2:44:28Speaker 01

  And for that, we will forever be grateful. So thank you. Thank you.

• 2:44:34Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:44:38Speaker 01

  Incredible. I didn't know what to expect. As this is our first roundtable that we've ever hosted. I'm walking away, learning more about myself. I'm walking away feeling inspired. I'm walking away with tools that I feel like I can use in my own life. Based on the experience they had, the lessons they've pulled from those experiences. And how they've been able to rebuild since X Factor. So, uh, if I can start with Lucy. Checking ego and being comfortable with taking a step back to take two forward. Her.

• 2:45:22Speaker 01

  Life for the last 10 years of her life is an example of that. What we clearly all picked up, Miles and Jamarain in terms of Lucy was just how brave. Lucy was and is to even tell the fullness of the story today. There's a lot of talk about how we have to love ourselves and we have to put ourselves first. And I understand that, but there's something honorable. When you are willing to sacrifice for your loved ones. And that's exactly what Jamarain did, exactly what he did. Then to see.

• 2:46:02Speaker 01

  Miles vulnerability. These are friends from 10, 12 years old that were together. That, you know, Miles talked about Rak Sue is a family group. And to know that they've lost a family member as a result of this machine that they didn't necessarily even want to begin with. It's sad to say this is a conversation that we haven't even fully had. That we need to have, that, that he wants to have. That level of vulnerability that he brought is something that I just won't forget. So. Incredible lessons around the table, and those are just a few.

• 2:46:44Speaker 01

  Now, being in television, knowing that there's production, there's. Character arcs, narratives that are managed. Yes, I understand that, I'm part of that system. I'm, and when I say I'm part of that system is that I'm someone who I feel, and I've talked about this many times. I feel like I have a character that is now shaped for me, that I'm trying to break out of.

• 2:47:11Speaker 01

  But I didn't realize.

• 2:47:15Speaker 01

  How big the show was, how embedded within British culture it was and still is. And just how devastating it could be for the contestants.

• 2:47:31Speaker 04

  It's been a long time coming. It would be nice for people to maybe get to know the real me.

• 2:47:36Speaker 01

  What do you believe people think when they hear your name Cher?

• 2:47:43Speaker 04

  My name's Cher.

• 2:47:49Speaker 04

  I came to get X Factor, to get his approval.

• 2:47:57Speaker 04

  Cher Lloyd scored a number one hit with her first single by the time she was just 18 years old.

• 2:48:01Speaker 01

  The most watched season in X Factor history.

• 2:48:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:48:04Speaker 01

  Over 14 million people watching every episode. What advice would you give that 16 year old girl?

• 2:48:11Speaker 04

  Don't be so naive, things will get ugly. I told myself.

• 2:48:17Speaker 01

  How do you feel you were portrayed?

• 2:48:19Speaker 04

  I was the villain that year and I was only 16 years old.

• 2:48:23Speaker 01

  It seems wild.

• 2:48:25Speaker 04

  It was called to hate Cher Lloyd.

• 2:48:28Speaker 01

  What's something that you're proud of?

• 2:48:29Speaker 04

  I've performed with Taylor Swift.

• 2:48:31Speaker 01

  Hold on for a second, Taylor Swift performed with Cher Lloyd?

• 2:48:34Speaker 04

  Oh, stop. I could tell you the craziest stories.

• 2:48:38Speaker 01

  Like what?

• 2:48:39Speaker 04

  I was promoting my album in the US. I was told what I needed to do to make this record take off is to find out where [BLEEP] is. And I should go try and get with him. My husband was even stood in that office.

• 2:48:53Speaker 01

  Your husband was in the room?

• 2:48:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:48:55Speaker 01

  Now that you're back, do you feel as if people love you?

• 2:49:03Speaker 04

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