Jay Sean: Everyone Knew The Song, Nobody Knew Me “I Broke The Stereotype”

Jay Sean reveals the untold story behind “Down” with Lil Wayne, signing to Cash Money Records and walking away from Virgin Records after three Top 10 hits. From medical school in London to becoming one of the most recognisable South Asian artists in global pop, he reflects on the risks, reinventions and decisions that defined his career. Jay revisits meeting Birdman, hearing Lil Wayne unexpectedly appear on “Down” and breaking America at a time when many fans didn’t even realise he was Indian. He also looks back at Drake before his rise to superstardom, and why he eventually chose to walk away from Cash Money too. Beyond the hits, Jay opens up about identity, representation and the pressure of being one of the few South Asian artists breaking into the mainstream. He reflects on family, fatherhood and why success means something very different to him now. Jay Sean, We Need To Talk Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Brand partnerships enquiries: [email protected] Follow Jay here:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaysean TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jaysean New Single ‘Body’: https://symphony.to/jay-sean/body (00:00) Intro (01:57) West London Upbringing (05:38) The Grandparents Who Shaped Him (10:41) The Childhood Photo (14:28) Discovering Music (16:27) Breaking Into Hip Hop (27:37) Breakthrough Hit: 'Dance With Me' (29:24) Signing To Virgin Records (34:11) Walking Away From Virgin Records (36:44) AD: Paul Plays More or Less (40:07) Breaking America With Cash Money (47:54) The Story Behind 'Down' (50:40) Leaving Cash Money Records (54:23) Changing South Asian Representation (1:00:28) Marriage With Tara (1:03:42) Becoming A Father (1:05:45) Paul's Surprise Message (1:09:56) What's Next For Jay Sean? (1:12:27) Most Memorable Conversation (1:15:48) Paul's Key Takeaways Sponsored by: The following segment contains discussion of sex and sexual wellbeing which may not be suitable for younger audiences. Viewer discretion is advised. Durex: Take pleasure to the next level, Durex Lubes give you more: https://linkly.link/2ujbX “Over 8 in 10 who tried lube say sex is better” is based on a survey conducted by Toluna, sample size 490 UK adults, June 2026. Always read the instructions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  When you look at Drake's career early on in Cash Money, do you see any resemblance?

• 1:04Speaker 03

  I would not say for one second that the label even put us in the same category. Cash Money really looks at me as a Popeye's.

• 1:13Speaker 03

  They know that song. Even if they don't know, they know it. They're like, I know the song.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  You're doing well in school, and you want to become a doctor.

• 1:19Speaker 03

  I did both. Two and a half years into med school, I'm still doing shows. I'm in class. But I'm on radio at the same time. The same time. It's a madness. Slim calls me up one day, and he's like, yo, I need you to come to Miami, man. Because there's a problem with the record. Then, of course, Wayne's voice comes in. We're like, what? When I got signed, I didn't even stop to think twice. I would walk away from a major record company that I've already had three top 10 hits with, simply because they want me to do some kind of music that I don't want to do.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  Did they talk about how they wanted to position you?

• 1:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, so...

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Why did you leave Cash Money?

• 1:55Speaker 03

  I just said to him straight, I was like, baby, listen, man, you guys bet on me, you took a risk on me, and we won. But they say, I don't feel like it's working anymore. I wanted my people to be seen the way they deserve to be seen, not these cliches, not the stereotypes. I needed to stick to my truth.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  I want you to tell me the first thing that comes to mind when you see this.

• 2:14Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness!

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Look, pause with me for just a second. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one, or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please, take a second and hit the follow button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Here's where I'd like to start.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Right? Is, I think, for the last 20-plus years, you've been known for the music.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  And people really knew you through the music.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  But when you think about today, what would you like the world to know about you?

• 3:18Speaker 03

  I think, really, for me, that's what I've been aiming for, really. My whole, throughout my whole career, is to allow my people and the people out there to get to know a little bit more about the person behind the name J. Shawn, right? Because it's funny, I was having this conversation with somebody the other day, and obviously, you know, J. Shawn is not, it's a stage name. It's not my birth name. And it becomes a character when that mic's in my hand, and, you know, or when I'm, you know, and in a music video, you embody this, you know, that pop star that you dreamt about being when you were a little kid.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:53Speaker 03

  And, but behind that pop star is just a regular dude who likes to have fun and enjoy the same things that we all do in life. But sometimes I feel like people don't get to see that through music, because they only ever see you on a music video, unless they're watching podcasts and there's stuff like that. They don't know who the person is.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, no, I'm with you. I think this is the beauty of like a long-form interview, is we have an opportunity to understand you.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Right? So let's unpack your story. So you were born where?

• 4:25Speaker 03

  In London.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Where in London?

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Yes, in Hillingdon.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  And where's Hillingdon?

• 4:28Speaker 03

  Hillingdon is west London.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. Obviously, I'm from an Indian heritage, right? So my mom and dad were actually born in India, but came over to England when they were about three years old.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Because my grandfather, it's the classic story, my grandfather came over to work to provide a better life for the children back home.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  So he left his kids and his wife in India, came over here, and got a job, and was sending money home and all this stuff. And by the time he hadn't made up enough to bring the family over, they all came over. Now, it was all about who you knew, right? So like, where are you gonna set up, right? And it was like, you knew someone who lived somewhere close by. And it was always funny, because it's always five minutes from the airport. And it's like, you go to like JFK, Queens, it's Indian people. In fact, you land in Queens, it's Indian people at the airport.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  This is true. But you know, I'm from Queens.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Okay, so you know, right? And the Guineas, right? The Guineas, the whole thing, right? And the same thing here, you land in Heathrow, you think you landed in India. Because all the people are Indian at the airport. I don't know, we seem to love to sort of like, I feel like we just landed, and they've sort of walked five minutes with their suitcases, and we're, yeah, this is good.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  This is good, I'll stay right here.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  This is fine.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh. So now, on this, though, note of family, is that I understand that you grew up with, literally in the household.

• 5:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  With a significant family.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Who lived in the household?

• 5:53Speaker 03

  It was beautiful, brother. It was me, at one point, it's crazy, at one point, it was me, my mom, dad, my younger brother, Nauru, and my dad's parents, okay? So my dad, the, my baba, so that's six of us. But we had two adjoining houses with like a doorway in between. And in that side was my dad's two brothers, okay? So we had them, and then one of them got married, his wife and kids.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Bro, we had a massive family.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  And we all lived together, and that was kind of, that was the beauty of it all, like, really, you know, Indian culture, family is a big thing. And having especially grandparents live with you, that, to me, my God, that was everything. My grandparents, you know, they basically raised me when my parents were at work, so it was just, you know, it's like having another mom and dad.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Yes. And so I wanted to go there, too. So your parents, I would imagine, they were both off working, long hours. What were they doing?

• 6:53Speaker 03

  So my parents had a family business. So my, we had a denim manufacturing, a denim manufacturing factory, okay? So what we would do, they would make all the denim jeans and jackets for the high street stores. So if you have like your River Islands and your, you know, whatever, let's say now, for example, it was Zara. They were manufacturing those jeans and putting the Zara labels on and blah, blah, blah. So it was a great business.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  To begin with, it was fantastic, but it was, you know, meant that mom and dad had to be there early. So granddad would drop us off to school, and he'd pick us up from school, and grandma would make us tea when we got home.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Food, and it was just, you know, it was just really, really beautiful.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  What do you think you learned about love at that age?

• 7:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, man, there was a lot of it. I'm grateful to say that, you know, there was a lot of love in my, in my household. The grandparents' love is different, right? Because the grandparents, they get to spoil the kids. They don't reprimand, they just fill them with love. And in my case, a lot of food. So, oh yeah, too much food, bro. I was a very chubby kid, we can get on to that. That's also affected my life a lot. But, yeah, so, so much food, so much love, and so many great memories, you know, of... When my grandparents passed away, it messed me up big time. It was the first real sort of close death in the family, and it really shook me.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  You know, I was in America, I was, I was actually meant to be on an Australia tour, when I got the call that my granddad had a stroke, and I had to cancel the leg of the tour, because I flew back. I'm like, I'm coming back, that's my dad.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? So, lots of love there, man. And of course, mom and dad, we had the additional love, so it was beautiful.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  Yes. You know, just even to give your grandfather space, because I know how much he meant to you. What's something that you believe he gave you that you still carry with you today?

• 8:52Speaker 03

  You know what I think he actually gave me, bro? My voice.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Really?

• 8:56Speaker 03

  He's the only person in my family who could sing. And he gave me way more than just the voice, but let me just tell you about that one bit. It was beautiful. Anyone's wedding that we'd go to, even if like we weren't related, we're just invited, you have a couple of whiskies, and it go up to the DJ, go, give me the mic. Grab the mic, and it just starts singing.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Really?

• 9:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, man, those were my early memories of him. This is before I was singing.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Interesting. So watching him do that, was that inspiration?

• 9:23Speaker 03

  And he, I guess so, right? And he was such a jov, he was such a jovial character, so bubbly, so funny, and such a character, right? And I think seeing him and that personality must have rubbed off on me, because then, I guess I kind of got the bug of being that guy, and just being, enjoying entertaining people. Because ever since I was a kid, I would do that anyway, right? I would just put on shows for people and do little silly things, comedy sketches, dances, singing, whatever it was. But more than anything, he gave me, he gave me a sentiment, a way, a philosophy of how to live life. And I guess he didn't know he was doing it. But every time he picked me up from school, okay, and I remember this clearly, he's in the driving seat.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  I'd come in the door and he'd put his hand on my lap and he'd go, alright, son, happy. And I said, yeah, it was always the first question he asked. Alright, son, happy, yeah. And if I didn't say, he said, don't worry, be happy. That was it, don't worry, be happy, okay? That's all he ever wanted to know. And so then I started, you know, asking him questions about, he lived a very simple life. He would have like three pairs of trousers and a couple of shirts, one tie and a, a, a, a couple of jackets.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Jackets, yeah.

• 10:37Speaker 03

  Just the most beautifully simple man. And he said to me, how much do we need? And I said, Baba, so do you, you know, it's like you, you know, and he, he was just simple. And he said, how much do you really need to be happy? He would always say, how many friends do you need? I'll never forget this. He said, don't, don't count your friends right now. I know that you think more is better.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  He goes, trust me, as you get older, they start falling off and you're lucky if you have a handful left. All these kind of things that they tell you, as you get older, you start understanding the wisdom.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Yes, from the elders, yeah.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  We try to accumulate more, more, more, right? As we, oh yeah, more, the more money I have, the more friends, the more success, the more followers, the more views, the more this. But as you're getting older and you're getting closer to saying goodbye, surely it's better to shed, let things go.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  Carry less baggage. And I think I'm starting to see his philosophy.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's such a blessing to be able to grow up with your grandparents.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  Oh, it's beautiful.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Uh, it's, it, it, it's a privilege that not many people have an opportunity. And you lived with them.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, bro.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  You know, that's, that's, it's a blessing.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Can I show you a photo?

• 11:44Speaker 03

  Please.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  All right, you have to close your eyes.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  All right, you ready?

• 11:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  All right, so I'm gonna show this to you and I want you to tell me the first thing that comes to mind when you see this.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  All right, here goes, take a look.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness, bro.

• 12:02Speaker 03

  How did you get this? I don't even have pictures, when I'm telling people, bruh, trust me, I was a little chunky boy. They're like, nah, bro.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  How did you even get this? This is incredible. But look, see, I still thought I'm mad swag.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  I tell you what, though, you look confident.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  You look confident.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  You know, it's really funny, there are a couple of photos that I have seen where I just, it didn't matter that I was chubby and, and even that sometimes you get bullied about it. There was something, I still thought I was the shit. And this is, it's great.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  You, you look, so, so it's interesting to me because you look, you portray confidence in this. Smile, little cheeky smile.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  Little cheeky smile, I love that.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  But what do you believe your identity was? How did you see yourself?

• 12:56Speaker 03

  That's a really nice question. Um, I think at that age, probably do we even grasp what our identity was, right? Or self, you know, was there even enough self-awareness to understand who you were? I think if I, if I was to tell you the truth, um, uh, I was, I was always a silly, funny guy.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  I was the silly, funny guy who would entertain people.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  And I think I, I definitely remember getting a lot of joy out of making people laugh. I used to, like I said, I would do impressions, I would do like of people in the family and everybody would crack up and they're, he's so funny. And maybe that's what filled me with the confidence. It certainly wasn't self-image, I can tell you that much. It wasn't that. And I went to an all-boys school as well. So it wasn't like we were dressing up for the girls and trying to be all, ah, what makes you popular in an all-boys school?

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying? You gotta be either like the funny dude or like.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Sports.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  Sports, right? Which was not, clearly not my thing. Um, so yeah, I think maybe that for me was just, it was, it was, it was a lot of personality.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  Okay, it was the personality.

• 14:00Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  So, so what allowed the confidence, what allowed for you to believe in the confidence? So at a certain point, it feels like the confidence was more performative. And then it moved to a place where you actually believed, began to believe in yourself.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I attribute a lot of that to, A, um, a, a, a really beautifully accepting household where like literally my mom, my mom and dad, to this day, right?

• 14:33Speaker 03

  You know, they all sort of filled me and my brother with, my dad's a big dreamer, big, big dreamer. Nothing is, no, no dream is too big for my dad. And he would always tell us that, he was like, you can, you know, do whatever you want. And he'd tell us the stories about how he, he, you know, had this vision of, cause dad ran an, like literally a very successful business, three factories. Five, six hundred employees.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  And he's like, I didn't have any of this. And he told us his story. So I guess that filled us up with like, wow, dad did that.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  We could do anything, you know?

• 15:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  And, um, and mom, my mom's very funny and silly. She's got a very good sense of humor and I had a big laugh with my mom. So my mom would always encourage me like, tell that joke, tell that joke, do that thing you did. And, and so there, it was always encouraged, you know, it was always encouraged. And I think that, um, that probably made me feel like, yeah, this is, I'm allowed to be this person.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. So then where does music begin to enter your life and at what age?

• 15:33Speaker 03

  Oh man, I, I think it was probably, well, first of all, my first earliest memories of music was my mom's younger sister. She's only sort of ten years older than me now, right?

• 15:44Speaker 03

  So she, uh, obviously she had the Michael Jackson vinyl, Off the Wall.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Off the Wall, oh.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  That, that's my favorite of, of, of Mike, yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  So you, you imagine that, that's your first sort of introduction to music when you're a kid? You're listening to Off the Wall.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  So like, you know, from there, I sort of, I remember that vividly, asking her to play those songs over and over. Um, and then, uh, another very, very clear memory I have, um, my mom and my brother, myself, we went to the high street to go, um, shopping. We went into a, a music shop and at the time, I think it was like a, whatever it was, you know, like they had the HMV Tower records and all that kind of stuff. Whatever that one was here, our price, whatever. Go in and they had a shelf with all the CDs and headphones, so you could sort of have a preview. And, uh, don't ask me why I was drawn to Lionel Richie back to front.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm not mad at that.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  I'm a, I'm a kid.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  I know, I'm not mad at that.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  And this dude sitting there with a big mustache and I was like, no, let's check this out. So I put it on, man, I bought that CD.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Did you?

• 16:47Speaker 03

  Cause something in it spoke to me. And to this day, Do It To Me, My Destiny, all of those songs, it takes me immediately back to that time. And I do think that now that, when I've sort of really analyzed, uh, my songwriting, a lot of people said to me, a lot of my melodies that have a little country thing to them, but so does Lionel's.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Even though he's soulful, there's some country in it.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  And so maybe he really sort of influenced my writing from an early age.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  That's so interesting.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  It's so interesting. And so that was like really how I got into, to, I guess, soul, soulful music. And that then went into hip-hop. And once I discovered hip-hop, I was obsessed.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  So, so how did you, and this is something that I always say with my friends, I say, when did you first fall in love with hip-hop? Take me to that moment.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  I know, exactly.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Me and my brother used to watch Yo MTV Raps.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  With Dr. Dre and Ed Lover. And we became enamored with all of that culture, the whole thing. Cause it was so far from, so far away from what we were here in West London. You think about it, like we're watching like even the West Coast hip-hop and they had the Cadillac, the bouncing Cadillacs and the whole thing. It was like, what is this? It's a world that's so different to mine.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Um, and so we became, I especially became obsessed with, uh, for me, I guess I didn't realize at the time, but because I was like sort of a, a proper nerd at school, like I, academic nerd, a very studious, studious when it came to anything. So I was more intrigued by the way that they would rap, okay? So let's say someone like Big L, for example, or Jay-Z or Foo Sznikens. We, it was that fast rapping that was going on. And I was like, how are they doing that? Right? Das effects, all of this stuff. And I started analyzing the patterns and how, and I'm copying it and I'm recording it on the video and then I'm rewinding it and I'm playing it. I'm learning all their raps. And, and it, cause for me, it was just so fascinating.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  That's also when I started beatboxing, cause then like I had the song and then I'm like, I'm, instead of humming, I'm doing the beats. And so before I knew it, I was diving into this world of hip-hop.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  You know?

• 19:03Speaker 02

  So, all right, so, so this is what I'm most curious about is so, uh, I grew up in New York and. So I grew up in it. I literally grew up in it. I grew up with De La Soul in my neighborhood.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  Unbelievable.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Busta Rhymes, Native Tongue, Moni Love, Queen Latifah.

• 19:23Speaker 03

  Come on, bro.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  All of them in the neighborhood.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  Unbelievable.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Big L is in my top five. Shout out to Harlem, you know what I mean?

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  But what I distinctly remember is that there were some of us who would mimic the lyrics. Some of us who would break dance. But then there was also another group that thought, you know what? It's not my culture, so therefore I'll just observe. I remember we used to show up at school in the morning and a bunch of us would rap, a bunch of us would break dance. But then most would just watch. But what I find interesting about what you're saying is that you felt like it was accessible to you.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  What made, because you're all the way on the other side?

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, bro.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  What was it about it?

• 20:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I really loved that because I could have just been a fan of it.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  I think it's because, I don't know how to explain why something inside me felt like I could attempt, even attempt what they were doing. But then there was nothing also saying, you can't. There was nothing saying, ah, what are we doing? You're not going to be able to do that. I was like, yeah, I can. I can do whatever. Like, let's try it. Let's figure it out. So it's like, you know, I'm watching, I'm listening, and then I'm copying and then it's just for fun, right? It wasn't, there was no vision there at the time that I want to be a rapper. It was just like, how are they doing that? I was just fascinated by it. And I think that what I like about what you just asked me is

• 20:52Speaker 03

  because there was no thinking in there, there was no, there was nothing that said, you are not allowed to do this. I did not once stop and look in the mirror and go, ah, hold on a second. They're all black, you're Indian, you can't do what they're doing. Because I didn't say, hold on a second, they're black, you're Indian, you're not allowed to listen and enjoy what they're doing.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  So if I was allowed to listen and enjoy it, I didn't stop and ask myself, why can't I still, why can't I do it?

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  So I just did it.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  You just did it.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  And I loved it, and so I kept on doing it. And so the older I got and the more I started writing and the more I started rapping and the more I started DJing, you know, I just got better and better and better. And there was never once a question in my head, hold on a second, should we stop? Are we allowed to do this? Am I allowed to do this? I was just doing it.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  You were just doing it.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  And I didn't care what anyone thought about me.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  You know?

• 21:51Speaker 02

  That's beautiful.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  And I think that's what hip hop is.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, man.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  That's what it's meant to be.

• 21:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  You know, and so as you continue to walk that path, at what point did you first consider it could be a career?

• 22:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, I don't think I ever thought it could be a career, but what had switched was, and you know what it took? It took one performance at my school. We had a night called Band Night. Band Night would be where, you know, literally the schools, I'm sure they had them in America, where you'd have like school bands and they'd perform.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Like talent, talent, talent shows.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  Exactly. And yo, by this time, I was like sixteen, seventeen, I might have been seventeen. And my cousin and I, we had a group. Like by this time, we're like, yeah, we're a group. And yeah, like legit, we were making mixtapes. So we had a friend of ours, he had turntables, we would buy the TDK cassette and we'd put it in there. We'd buy the vinyls, imports from America, all the instrumentals, and we would make a ninety minute mixtape. Start to finish, no mess ups. Because you know, if you mess up, you got to start all the way.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 22:54Speaker 03

  So, bro, so then imagine ninety minutes of spitting perfectly.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  By then, I had to be, I had to be good.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  If you didn't mess up once in ninety minutes. So that's to that point, when it got to the mixtape point, those started spreading. And people were legit coming up to us saying, you guys are, you guys are all right, man. So we're like, all right, we need a name.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Damn, we need a name and we need an album cover. We've made a little fake album cover, bro.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Those are the first two things you thought of, a name and an album cover.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  And we made the little album cover and we stuck it inside the sleeve and we started handing them out. And then we performed at Band Night and everyone lost their mind. When I tell you the whole school was out like, yo. That's when I think I caught the bug. That's when I think something just switched and went, I love this.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  I love this feeling.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  All right, so now how do you, because at this time, you said you're a super nerd.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  You're doing well in school.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  And you want to pursue a medical path.

• 23:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Become a doctor.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  So at what point, or how did you determine

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  that you'd rather go right than left? You know what I mean? How did you, you picked music over being a doctor? You did both.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  I did both. I didn't stop rapping. I didn't stop making music. I was now performing. Now we're getting, now we're doing, after the back of the Band Night, I started hustling. Now I'm calling up local festivals where I see there's music stuff going on around me. I'm calling up the promoters and I'm saying, hey, you know, we're a rap group, can I get on? We sent our demo, they'd call back, they're like, you guys are pretty good, we'll give you ten minutes, fifteen minutes. So now I'm performing in front of crowds.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  For real.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Is this a compulsive disorder?

• 24:42Speaker 03

  Yes, compulsive disorder.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  We're performing in front of crowds. But I'm still going to school and I'm studying and I'm doing my, getting my grades and my grades are up.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  And then I think that there was a really key moment when, and I'll never forget this. It was the night before my finals and I had an exam the next day. But there was a DJ on the equivalent of Hot 97 here in England on Choice FM. And he was doing a talent contest and you had to spit down a phone, you had to just rap down the phone. And if you went through, you would be drawing the top hundred of the whatever. Anyway, that's me now. It's midnight, I'm on the phone to a radio station. I've got an exam the next day.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  Don't ask me why I'm doing this. It's calling clearly, right? Something inside was like, you've got to do this. I did it. I get through. In fact, I didn't get through first. I got flushed the first time because I was the delay between the phone call, so I was offbeat. I told him, I said, take the instrumental out, let me do this a cappella. I did it a cappella and I got through. Then we get through, bro, long story short, the top hundred gets down to the top ten. We were in the top ten in the country, performing at Hackney Empire, now a legit concert venue.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  We were the only two Indian kids in that whole talent show. Everybody else was black. And we were the only rappers. And we came third and the winners were two singers and we were the only rap group standing, two Indian boys. And so that also taught me, there's nothing that you're not allowed to do. If you want this

• 26:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  and you're good and the crowd loves you, let's go.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  And I think that was enough for me. It was enough validation with the crowd cheering. I didn't once stop and think, like, I'm not, I'm not meant to be doing this.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  And it was that, it was that obsession with like, that being on stage, controlling a crowd. It just felt so good and I couldn't give it up. So then I got into med school. Now I'm two and a half years into med school, I'm still doing shows at the same time. Yeah, and so then, you know, to answer your question really, when it came down to, it just, from then it started spreading. Words going around, who's this guy? People are talking about me, much like how, you know, mixtape culture in America.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Same.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  They're signing all that kind of stuff, you know, the buzz is on the street.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  And I got picked up by Virgin Records and I got signed. And I didn't even stop to think twice. I told my mom and dad, I said, this is happening, this is what I want to do.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  And mom and dad supported you.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  They did because I remember the conversation distinctly.

• 27:26Speaker 03

  And I said, I said to them, I said, mom, dad, you know that it's hard enough to get into med school. And I did it. I got the grades and I got in and I was doing both of this at the same time.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  I was like, this right here, this is impossible. This, you get the grades, you get in, you apply for the job, you get the job.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  That's a, you can do that, that's a set route. This one, this is a gift.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  I've got to do this. And my mom and dad said, they said, listen, we've got to trust you, we don't know about this industry. But if you put the same amount of hard work and your same work ethic that you did over here to your studies, you study this industry, learn about it, do your hardest, that's all we ask of you. And I got their blessing.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's so interesting because you have South Asian parents.

• 28:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  And we know what the stereotypes are around that. It's the same thing for Caribbean, same thing for all my West African friends. Where the parents will say, no.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  Double down on the school.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  And it seems like your parents were able to step outside of that mold.

• 28:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  And I would imagine because they saw you successfully do both and they saw how passionate you were about the music.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  And so now, in the music, so when you were signed to Virgin, had you already met Rishi Rich?

• 28:49Speaker 03

  Yes, so that's, that's the song that got me signed, right? So Rishi Rich I met while I was studying medicine. And we started making music together. One of the songs was the first song we came out with, Dance With You, was the first song that had my voice on it that had ever sort of had a commercial release. Bear in mind, I'm still in med school. So, and I don't have a deal, but I have now a song that's flowing around.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Now it's bubbling, before you know it, it's ended up on radio, Spot Plays first, on mix shows, then it gets playlisted. And I'm like, I'm on radio, bro.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm, I'm in class. But I'm on radio.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  At the same time.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  The same time.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  It's a madness.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  So obviously, because that song blew up, Virgin and Relentless, who's the subsidiary label, they, they saw what was going on and it was, it was a madness. They saw video footage of tons of, of Asian kids, South Asian kids swarming around us on the high street and they were like, this, this is something.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  It had never been seen before. They'd never seen this before, you know, an Indian kid who was actually singing Western music.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:58Speaker 03

  The other one existed. We had, of course, bunga music and Bollywood music and stuff like that, South Asian music, but never had a South Asian kid who was doing R and B, hip hop and all this stuff. So, so they picked me up and that was it.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  And, and that was it. So, all right. So now, when they picked you up, how old were you?

• 30:17Speaker 03

  I would have been about twenty one.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Okay. So you're twenty one.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  So do you recall those early meetings?

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  Did they talk about from how they wanted to position you? You know what I mean? Because here you are.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Incredibly, like the buzz is there, but I would imagine it's predominantly in the South Asian community in the UK.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  How did they say they wanted to position you?

• 30:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. So we, we did, I do remember this. They said, what kind of artist do you want to be? And I started reeling off all these R and B artists and.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Like, like who?

• 30:50Speaker 03

  You know what the first one I said was?

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Lotta Richie.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  Music Soulchild.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 30:54Speaker 03

  And I remember, like, there was an awkward in the room because they were like, which one? Like, that's like left field neo soul. Like, come on, bro. Like, you gotta be a little bit, like, you know, sell. I mean, like, and I get it because it's that there is a niche.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  Kind of artist, like, you know, but he was my favorite artist at the time. His, his voice and everything like that. I just loved him. And but then I started reeling off other people. I was like, you know, Donal Jones, Joe, you know, whatever it is, Joe Lucie. And then they were like, okay. And I was like, you know, I just love R and B and I love hip hop and I love the whole thing. And then I think they kind of thought, all right, we can go with that. We can go down that route because, you know, at the time there, that made sense to them. It was okay because so many South Asian kids loved R and B in, in London at the time. It was just like their favorite genre of music. And so,

• 31:48Speaker 03

  you know, we went with that. They heard Dance With You and I said, look, I just got to do my thing and I, and I want to write everything. That's, and that was what was crazy because most people don't get that chance.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  From day dot to write everything. They'll put you in a room with hit writers.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  I was like, no, I've got to write it. It's got to be my story. It's got to be my truth. And I think maybe that was what made them think, wow, this guy's actually serious about his art.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Okay. So, so, so they allowed you to do that?

• 32:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I did. And I wrote every song since then.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Okay. So, so now even on that, what I'm curious about is, is did they say, okay, we're going to position you specifically for the South Asian community?

• 32:22Speaker 03

  No, never said that.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  They never, okay.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  I think what they saw was the opposite. I think what went bing to them was like, we have an inbuilt fan base already.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  And this kid can cross over. He's got the kids already here. The South Asian kids are already claiming him.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  The black kids and the white kids, I think that they could go for his music too, because it's the same stuff they're listening to anyway.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Because I'm, it's not, it wasn't alienating anyone. It was just, I'm singing in English, yo, but I just happen to be an Indian kid.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  And surely that started happening. I'd start doing shows and the Indian kids would be like, they're claiming me now. They're like, yo, you don't, you don't know about Jay Sean, man, to their black friends, their white friends. And then they'd come along to the concerts. Now they've become fans. Now they're telling their friends. Now, before I know it, I'm doing shows and I've got a beautiful mix of all cultures, all races at my show. And nobody had ever seen this before for an Indian guy, right? Because if you're doing sort of Punjabi music, you're gonna have predominantly Punjabi or Indian people, you know, South Asian people in the audience. But here we had a mixture and that was something so new for them that I think the label was just like, we're on to something.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I've never seen it before.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  See?

• 33:39Speaker 02

  And I'm going to tell you something that is probably either going to blow you away or not surprise you.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Is that, so when you hit my radar.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Which was in the US.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Cash money.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Down.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  I distinctly remember, I was like, he's light skinned.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bro, it's the funniest ongoing joke in America.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was like, he's, yeah, that's, I think, so, I think there was like a racial ambiguous nature.

• 34:11Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Nobody knew. Yo, to this day, there was one video that just went super viral again, one of mine actually, a TikTok that when I didn't know, put it, put it up. The amount of comments like, yo, you telling me this guy ain't light skinned? All this time I thought he was light skinned. And then other people like, wait, he's not Dominican? Wait, he's not Puerto Rican? Wait, he's not Mexican?

• 34:35Speaker 03

  I had all of that.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  No one thought Indian?

• 34:38Speaker 02

  No, no one.

• 34:39Speaker 03

  And.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Because it, it had never been done before.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, no one.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  And you know what, bro? That actually, you know, was kind of the beauty of it all because they just judged the song. The song hit a chord and now you've got fans and it's okay. What are they gonna stop and go, no, well, you know what? I will not listen to a single one of his other songs since I found out he's South Asian.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  Not really gonna happen. If you, if you dig someone, you dig someone. You know what I'm saying? And, and so, yeah, it was beautiful. It was, it, to see that spread, man, it was just, it was, it was a, it was a, it was a groundbreaking moment for, for us and our culture.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So then, why did you leave? Because you left Virgin.

• 35:19Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. I left Virgin. So, Paul, you know, the thing with me is that I've always, and like I told them on the first meeting, I need to do this my way. And I don't know, don't ask me why I was so sure of the fact that I would walk away from a major record company that has already, I've already had three top 10 hits with, simply because they want me to do some kind of music that I don't want to do. But I was so adamant and I was so sure that I needed to stick to my truth. I knew that from day one because when I did my first video for Eyes And You, the first solo single, I shot that in Southall. Yeah, I was a young kid, but I also knew, I, I remember thinking this. I said to my

• 36:03Speaker 03

  brother, I was like, if I never do another music video again, this might be the only one I ever get, we're shooting it in Southall. I said, they need to see our ends.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  They need to see my truth. They need to see my people. Because before, out the window to Asian culture, South Asian culture was tiny. We're talking 23 years ago. You switch on the TV, didn't see many Indians on TV.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  This is true.

• 36:25Speaker 03

  If they did, they're talking like this and it's the same thing. There's no breaking back. There's, you're not breaking anything. There's, there's no, it's still the cliche and it's still the stereotype. And if that's your little window, that's what you think our people are.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  And I was like, we need to bust that window open. We need to make it bigger. We need to let them see us. We need to let them see people like me and people like our friends and our fam. Show them who we are. And that is not that alienating. We're just, you know, we're just the same as you guys, man. Like, let's assimilate. And so I opened that window and I showed them our people. And then because they started finding elements of all that cool, once it became cool, now you're in it. Once kids were like, oh, yo, man, this is pretty cool right here.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:10Speaker 03

  And it's, because all kids want to be is cool.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  This is true. This is true.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  So if they start thinking that that's cool, now they don't, now be having a South Asian friend is, is not, it's not too weird now. It's like, I like your guy's stuff. I like your food. I like your music. That's cool. And it started opening things up.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:28Speaker 03

  And so when Virgin didn't let me do what I wanted to do musically, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna do this my way. Peace out. And I did. And I made an independent album and I called it My Own Way because it was on an independent label and it was the music I wanted to make. And it became the number one R and B album in the UK.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Look at that.

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Independently.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Look at that.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:50Speaker 03

  The following segment contains discussion of sex and sexual well-being, which may not be suitable for younger audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Our sponsors, Jurex Loops, are all about giving you more from sex. We wanted to find out what more actually means to you. So we ask you a series of questions. We're going to see whether I've actually got my finger on the pulse of what you think. Alani, come on in and join me. So, Alani, you're a sex and relationship author.

• 38:22Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  You're not usually a game show host, are you?

• 38:24Speaker 04

  Excuse me. I trained Ann Robinson.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Who's Ann Robinson?

• 38:32Speaker 04

  So Paul, I'm gonna give you a statement and a number, and you have to decide whether your audience are more or less likely to agree.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 38:41Speaker 04

  So Paul, a really good kiss can be more intimate than sex. More or less than 76%.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  I personally believe sex.

• 38:49Speaker 04

  That's intimacy. That's the height of intimacy.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Right? So I feel like if we're talking about intercourse, that intercourse is more intimate than a kiss. I'm going to say, because I feel like the audience is me. I am the audience. Less.

• 39:04Speaker 04

  So interestingly enough, it's actually more. 93%.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  Said that a kiss.

• 39:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  Are you serious?

• 39:10Speaker 04

  Yes, I know, right?

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Who is watching this show?

• 39:14Speaker 04

  Can I actually say that I'm surprised as well? Listen, I would have said the same thing if I was on the other side.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, this started horribly.

• 39:20Speaker 04

  Right, let's go to the next one. Someone doing the washing up is a bigger turn-on than flowers. More or less than 50%?

• 39:28Speaker 02

  More, because

• 39:29Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  my wife, that's what she would value more.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  And she is a devout audience member.

• 39:36Speaker 04

  You're completely right, 50, 60%.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  There we go. We're winning.

• 39:39Speaker 04

  Love it. We have a greatest hits routine and we stick to it. More or less than 70%.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  So greatest hits, script, it's missionary, it's this, it's oral sex, it's blah, blah, blah.

• 39:50Speaker 04

  I feel like sex is about understanding your partner's wants and needs. And once you understand what it is that brings them pleasure, you play about with it from time to time, but ultimately it's still a script. And it can heighten intimacy even more.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  I feel like you're educating me now. Given what you've just said, I'm gonna say more now.

• 40:08Speaker 04

  Now, it's actually less, which I'm shocked by. I know, I feel bad.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  You set me up.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  But I did want to share that it is good to make sure that you know and understand your partner.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:18Speaker 04

  You know, have something that works for you both. Next one, I tried a Durex lube just to see what it adds. More or less than 79%?

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Who wouldn't wanna just give it a try?

• 40:30Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  If it's gonna up your pleasure.

• 40:33Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Then I wouldn't say more. Confidently, I say more.

• 40:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's another thing. People think that lube is just for arousal, but it can be for many things. So, yeah. And you're right, more, which is 85%.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  I thought I would actually get 100 out of 100, so I need to work on my game. But one thing we did learn, there's always room for more of what feels good. Over eight out of 10 people who tried lubes say sex is better. So try Durex lubes to take your 69 to 100.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  So then, how do you get to the US?

• 41:10Speaker 03

  So by then, My Own Way had become a success. The song "Write It" really changed my life. And it changed my life in so many different ways. And I met this kid, Alan Sampson, who was in-store signing and he gave me a CD, whatever. I called him up and he had this little shed in Slough, garden shed at his mom and dad's house, and he was making music. But he was making it, he's a young kid, he was just making music because he was fun. And he was in it. There was no trying to make a hit. I said, "I need that fire. I need that energy." So I went there and I wrote, and I wrote this song, "Write It." "Write It" then went on to take me to the next level.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  And that's how My Own Way became the number one album. I released it independently. "Write It" again then got me signed to Cash Money.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Ah, okay.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Birdman fell in love with that song.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  That's how it did. Can I go back to the Alex? So one thing I've always wondered is, from what I understand, and tell me if I'm wrong on this, is that Rishi Rich initially didn't want to work with you. Is that true, or yes?

• 42:18Speaker 03

  No, Rishi, oh yes, okay, so he tested me.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, so he was reluctant, right? So he was reluctant, right? So if I park that, Alan approaches you, and it seems like right away, there was something about, I don't know, the interaction, something about him, that you immediately said, "Yeah, let's go do this."

• 42:40Speaker 03

  No, so what it was with Rishi, Rishi was at that time, super hot producer in the South Asian community. And he wanted to see how serious I was about music, because he knew I was studying. And he was like, "This guy ain't gonna give up his medical degree for music."

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Ah, okay.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  So he'd call me to the studio, he'd make me sit in the car, and he wouldn't open the door for a couple of hours. See if I wait, see if I stick around. Did that a couple of times.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  Really?

• 43:03Speaker 03

  I stuck around. And then he was like, "I just wanna see how serious you are about this stuff." And I was like, "Let's go." And I think that's why, and I kinda love it. I love that he did that, because, yeah, I could have just driven away. But he wanted to see how hungry I was. You see what I'm saying?

• 43:20Speaker 02

  I see it.

• 43:20Speaker 03

  And it was that magic, I mean, it all began with Rishi. It was that magic with me and Rishi that we created that sound. You know, fusing together the influences that were true to us. Asian music, hip-hop, R&B, pop, all in one. It was us who combined that sound together and made that sound fusion. It had never been commercially released before.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  So he was instrumental in my career.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  But he didn't test you, though.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Huh? Yeah, he tested me.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  But it sounds like you didn't test Alan, though.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  Oh, no. Are you kidding me? I heard the CD, I put it in my car, straight away. I play it, I hear boom, I'm hearing this beat. I'm like, "Oh god, this groove is sick." I'm like, "What the hell is that kid?" Take it out. I'm like, "Let me call this kid. Call him up."

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Immediately.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  Immediately. Went to his house. And bear in mind, of course, it was super, it was crazy, because he can't believe this is happening. But all I know is, this is the fire, this is the energy, this is the... It lit me up.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  I don't care where his studio was. I'd just come from massive studios with interns running around, and I was in a garden shed. But it lit me up, and I needed that. I needed that again. And so, why would I question any of it? Let's get on with it. Let's do this.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  I see it. I see it. And so, as you described, then Birdman, from Cash Money, right, eventually hears this, and he immediately, what, he calls you up?

• 44:51Speaker 03

  Calls me up. Jeremy at the time was the producer I was working with. He was doing remixes for Lil Wayne, which is how Birdman heard "Write It", because he sent him "Write It". He said, "I'm working with this kid from the UK, whatever, whatever." He heard "Write It", he was like, "Man, who is this kid?" He's like, "I need to meet him. Fly him over here." So Jeremy calls me in, he's like, "Yo, Birdman wants to meet you." I was like, "Well, come and go. Let's go."

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, but at that time, though, Birdman had, I mean, it was Cash Money.

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Lil Wayne wasn't...

• 45:17Speaker 03

  No, Lil Wayne was popping.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  He was popping at that time.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  He was popping hard.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 45:22Speaker 03

  But they didn't have Drake yet, they didn't have Nicki, they didn't have all of that. This was all like prior to that.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So still, though, Cash Money's big.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Right? You fly over.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  And what's that meeting like with Birdman initially?

• 45:35Speaker 03

  It was amazing and hilarious. Paul, the one thing about me is that I have never known how to be a different kind of person. Because the only person, and like I say when I'm with Jay Sean on the music videos, that's the different person, that's just playing a character. But like this

• 45:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  is how I am with my friends and everybody else. Because I realized very early on, you know, you're gonna get caught out. It's just stupid. Be who you are. If people love you for who you are, then you're good.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:08Speaker 03

  I can't put on this facade. So I go over there, and I'm fresh out of England. And you know, of course, they're from New Orleans, and they're a hip-hop, you know, they're a hip-hop group, a hip-hop label from New Orleans. And I got their legs up, they're playing PlayStation and stuff. And here's me, I'm like, "Hi, fellas. Hi, guys." And my man, my friend Jerry's elbow me, he's like, "Yo, man, be cool, man. What you doing?" I was like, "Oh, it was so bad. How you doing? Nice to meet you." And instantly, I think Birdman and I clicked, because he found me funny. Because the way he's, the way I talk, he couldn't understand it. And so he starts chuckling, and I think people were like, "Birdman's laughing." Like, this is, he's like, what?

• 46:52Speaker 03

  I was like, "I'm sorry." He's like, "Man, I don't understand anything you're saying." And I'm like, "Oh no, sorry, it's my accent." And then we had this whole conversation, and of course, half the time I couldn't understand what he's saying. So it was two different worlds. But I think it was that bond, it was just nice. It was just like, he found it entertaining, I found it fun, and it was easy. And I guess because I went over there being me, who I am, they also were like, so, they were smart about this. They were like, "Yo, you dress the way you dress, and you stay like that." Like, we, this is us. You do you. And I love that. They weren't trying to be like, "Oh, yeah, well, here's your grills, and here's your..."

• 47:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  None of that. Love it. That's you. Be you.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  And because they allowed me to be who I was, my true self, authentically myself, I felt comfortable there, because I was like, "They get this." They're not trying to change me like the other label was.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  They get this.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  So you sign then

• 47:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  to Cash Money.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  And do you become one of the first R&B singers for Cash Money at that time?

• 48:00Speaker 03

  So you know what's interesting here? And this is a really interesting take. Had I released "Write It" as the first single in America, which is what Birdman wanted to do, Slim, his brother, wanted to release "Down." "Down" is a giant pop record.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  Our a write it is more an R and B record.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  It would have changed my complete, complete trajectory of my, of my career in America. You know this.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:25Speaker 03

  Cause you know how in America, it's real different.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  You know, here we say the word R and B, it's not like maybe R and B, R and B. But there's like some souls to the melodies and you know, we call it R and B. But over there, it's like, oh no, R and B, it's a different genre.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Different radio.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Mary J.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, and different radio stations.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  You know, they saw the big pop smash and they were like, this is the one. And, uh, and so we went there and we went there with Down.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  So you had already written down before you signed to Cash.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  Within the first two or three weeks of, of, of signing to them. I wrote that song.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 49:00Speaker 03

  We wrote that song in the first two or three weeks. And they could, I think even for them, they were just like, oh, okay. Okay, we need to put this out. We know he hasn't made an album yet with us, but this needs to come out ASAP. So now I'm playing catch up. The song goes out, I don't even have an album ready. Most people kinda like would make an album, then release the song.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:21Speaker 03

  Drop the album. We were playing catch up. Cause Down went on and was climbing and we're like, oh, so now I'm in a studio, we're scrambling, we're trying to write this album.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  That's interesting because it was so successful.

• 49:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Was Lil Wayne on it immediately or no?

• 49:37Speaker 03

  No. And again, this is like one of those beautiful moments. Uh, uh, done the song, written the song, we had a whole different bridge. And, um, Slim calls me up one day and he's like, yo, I need you to come to Miami, man. And I was like, what's up? He goes, there's a problem with the record.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  There's a problem?

• 49:57Speaker 03

  What do you mean? So I fly over there, he's like, listen to this, plays it. I'm like, listening, it sounds fine. Then of course Wayne's voice comes in.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  Yo, me, my co-writer Jared, my producer Jeremy, we're bouncing. We're like, what? And it was just such a beautiful moment. And of course, I'm gonna come on one day and one of the most iconic features on a pop record, I think.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 03

  That features.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  One of the most, I mean, to, to the point where I, I think that Down is one of the most universal songs I've heard. And I saw it was, is it certified, it's diamond, right? Which is equivalent of 10 million plus sales.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  Sales.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's incredible. Everyone knows this song. And it just, it just brings everyone up to a whole nother level. To have something like that in your catalog must be, must be unbelievable.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  It's unbelievable. And it's really sort of like, it's beautiful to say that, you know, for you to say that, I appreciate that. But it truly is, it's like, anywhere I go in the world.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  No matter what country, they know that song.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  They know that song.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  They know it.

• 51:01Speaker 03

  Even if, even if they don't know, they know it. They're like, I know the song.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:04Speaker 03

  Cause it was just everywhere, everywhere, all the time.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  And you were everywhere on the charts as well. Because that, that's, that's when I, you know, became familiar with you. Pitbull, it was, uh, Sean Paul, Gucci Mane.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  It was, you, you were all over the charts.

• 51:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  But then you left.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Cash Money.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  So, uh, just a real quick is.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Why did you leave Cash Money? And then I have a controversial take.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  That I wanna share with you.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Or it might not be controversial, a take.

• 51:36Speaker 03

  Um, honestly, I felt like, um, we had just our, our journey together of, of winning and crushing and being in alignment with the, the vision. It, it was slowly dwindling. And to avoid it dying a slow painful death, I just said to Baby, and I just said to him straight, I was like, Baby, listen, man, you guys bet on me. And I am eternally grateful for that because you took a risk on me, you know, like you didn't have to, but you did. You bet on me and we won. I was like, but this, I don't feel like it's working anymore. And you know, I have kids now and I gotta think about my kids, bro. This ain't about me anymore. This ain't about this kid.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  I'm a family man now, so I'm asking you, family man to family man, like I need to go do my thing. And it was, it was beautiful. He was, he was fine about it. There was no bad blood. And, um, you know, uh, and, and so I had to go and do my thing. I just had to, I knew I had to go, the same way, bro, I knew I had to do it when I left Virgin.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  Virgin, yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  That same guy kicked in, that same instinct kicked in. That same kid who would have gone to medical school said, come on, bro.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. The it's, the inner confidence is incredible. It's incredible. All right. So here's the, might not be controversial, right? So I was talking to a friend of mine, right? And I was like, all right, so Jay Sean signs is with 2008, 2009.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  2009, yeah.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  2009 to Cash Money.

• 52:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  One year later.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  This guy named Drake signs.

• 53:02Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 53:03Speaker 02

  To Young Money, right?

• 53:07Speaker 02

  And then we see, hold on for a second, Jay Sean, R and B singer, rapper. We begin to see how you were positioned in the videos.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  And then you go, and then all of a sudden, we see how Drake is positioned in the videos, within that album. I mean, so when you, was there any, when you think and you look at Drake's career early on in Cash Money, do you see any resemblance between your positioning?

• 53:37Speaker 03

  No.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  And his positioning?

• 53:38Speaker 03

  No, no, I would not say for one second that the label, uh, even put us in the same category. Because Cash Money really looks at me as a pop artist. We had a, like a pop, straight pop artist. Uh, the word R and B wasn't even in the conversation until I told them, I said, listen, guys, I know, I, I do love R and B music and I would love to do some of what I did in England, cause England knows me for other stuff too. And that's when I did Mars with Rick Ross.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:02Speaker 03

  And they let me do that. They, and they, you know, they put it out. And it got some, it got some good airplay actually in America, um, on like the urban stations. But it didn't pop off the, as a commercial hit. Um, Drake was doing, he was in his bag already, man. And he was, he's on the street mixtape level. He was already hot.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  That's true, that's true.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  He was already hot. And I remember I was there at Drake's, um, listening party, album listening party. When, you know, there was only, there were not that many people in the studio. And I heard, when I heard his music, I instantly became a fan, I'll be real with you, because I understood what that was. Cause I, you know, I loved the rapping and the singing and I was like, I remember going up to her, I was like, yo,

• 54:42Speaker 03

  you're pretty good, man. I think, I think you're gonna do all right.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  One day, one day you could be all right.

• 54:50Speaker 03

  Out of here, just guys out of here.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Um, so no, man, I think he's, uh, uh, you know, I think he's, the success that he's had and the run that he's had is incredible.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. But then also the run that I think that, that you had, you, you continue to put out music.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Right? And not only was the music, I think, important, but what you represented.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  And I, I wanna share this with you real quick. I've got, um.

• 55:16Speaker 05

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• 55:45Speaker 06

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• 55:58Speaker 07

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• 56:16Speaker 02

  I wanna read this to you. So I've got a friend.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  Who, uh, I told him you were coming in.

• 56:22Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  And he was like, oh my God, you got Jay Sean.

• 56:26Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  You got MC Nicki J.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Wow, okay.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  All right. So he was super young, young at the time and he said, it's interesting. And he gives a laugh emoji. He said, back in the day, I just remember Jay being the coolest guy around. But now, being older and I look back, what I realized was watching him succeed made the world feel like it was bigger. And it made what was possible feel like it was less out of distance.

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Ooh, wow, that's beautiful, man.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  That was, that was powerful.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  That you made the world feel bigger.

• 57:10Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  And what was possible, it was actually closer to him.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  Because of watching you.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  And I wanted to talk about what impact do you.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:22Speaker 03

  That's really nicely put.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  Good friend.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  So, so, yeah, yeah.

• 57:26Speaker 03

  Tell him thank you.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. He'll be watching this.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  And, and so, and that wasn't just for him. He said, that was his entire crew. That was, that was everybody. That's what you did for, for them. And so when I think about your, the, when I think about just representation, right? I think, okay, in the, in terms of South Asian representation in R and B, in pop, in hip hop, it was non-existent. But here you were, top-selling South Asian artist.

• 57:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  I think the, was it the first and only to perform top of the pops?

• 58:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, first and only, um, yep. Uh, and there, there was a lot of firsts, bro. It was crazy.

• 58:09Speaker 02

  So did you, is that something that you thought about consciously then?

• 58:14Speaker 03

  I realized it.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  You realized it.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  I realized it. I realized that the more, the more successful I was becoming and the more crazy things that I was doing. Uh, the, the first, you know, the first of this, the first to do this, the first to get this, the first to sell this, the first this. I was like, oh my God, like this for real is like groundbreaking for our community. And then that's when I realized this was bigger than me. In the beginning, I think, you know, you listen, you're a kid, you just wanna make it, right? You're on stage and you're excited and you're doing your thing, but then when you start realizing that no one was, no one else is doing this and you're that lone soldier. I wrote songs about this, bro, while I was with Virgin. I literally wrote songs about being the one, the only guy standing around in a field.

• 59:00Speaker 03

  No one, no other people were here to help me, but I disguised it as love songs. And it was my letter to the music industry, like, yo, like, we need to fix this relationship.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:10Speaker 03

  I, that's how much I realized it was real. And I could not, for the life of me, understand why when we're such a big demographic, why aren't there more of us in here doing what I'm doing? And so I knew that I had a responsibility. I knew that I had a beautiful, I was in a beautiful position to be able to do good with my platform. I wanted my people to be seen the way they deserve to be seen, not these cliches, not the stereotypes. I really wanted the world to see us properly for the way that we know ourselves. And give us a fair chance, give us that shot. Take a look at our culture, then make a decision.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 59:48Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? And so I was, I became very aware that I was, people were looking to me like, come on, bro. Come on, bro.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  They want me to win.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  I'm very grateful for that.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  And, and so now, when you look at where

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  the community is with regard to music, what's your, what's your perspective?

• 1:00:10Speaker 03

  It's definitely come a long way, man. It's come a long way, let me tell you. You know what's interesting, like, even my birth name is, is, is so long. It's a Punjab, classic Punjabi name, right? It's Gamaljit Singh Dutti. Now, clearly not a very catchy stage name, okay? Okay? But, so obviously we make up Jay Sean, it has meaning to me anyway, right? And, but now I'm seeing artists who are literally out there with their birth name.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  You know, we've got Laura from Katsai, who's just able to be herself. We've got Diljit Desanj, who's out there selling out stadiums in New York, in England, and just crushing and being allowed to do his, sing in his native tongue, you know? And so I, I, I look at all of this and I think we've, we have come a long way now, right? And, and that was something I could have only dreamt of back then. And we're seeing more, more South Asians on TV playing regular roles. He's just a dude and it's okay. There's no backstory of like strict parents and all this kind of stuff.

• 1:01:19Speaker 03

  So times are changing and I'm, and bro, if I even had a tiny, tiny bit to do with any of that, then that's, I've done some good and I can look at myself and say, I think you did some good with your position. You know, because it was not the case when I was around.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Hey there, I just wanna say thank you for choosing We Need to Talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Two more topics that I wanna hit. Something else I wanna show you, you gotta close your eyes.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  All right, you're ready? All right, I wanna tell, I want you to tell me, first thing that comes to mind, when you see

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  this.

• 1:02:13Speaker 03

  Ah, that's a, that's a, that's when I first actually met my wi, my now wife.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  It, it, was that the first meeting?

• 1:02:20Speaker 03

  First meeting.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  First meeting?

• 1:02:21Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  So where is that? Is that in New York?

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  This is, uh, this was Atlantic City, I believe.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, it was the Bollywood Awards. And I had come to perform and Tara was also performing and she hated me then. She tells me, in this picture, she thought I was a douchebag.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. Cause she had heard stories of this guy Jay Sean and she just thought, oh, he's probably gonna be such a douche if he thinks he's like the shit, right? Cause he was like the Indian guy who sings and ing, like, you know, thinks he's a fucking pop star, Justin Timberlake. So she assumed I was gonna be a douche.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  And she never told me that until way later, that she didn't like me on the first meeting.

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  And she didn't give me a chance. And then she said, to be fair, I didn't, I just took a picture with you and I didn't even talk to you.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Are you serious?

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, bro.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  So, so how'd you win her back?

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  So then I saw her again a few years later. I had a show in Miami. By then, it was Jay Sean 2.0. This was the ride at Jay Sean.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:14Speaker 03

  The buzz cut.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  Okay, I see it.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  I came back and, and, and I was, you know, I, she actually, we talked. She gave me a chance to even, and because I started making her laugh, we were doing, I was making her laugh a lot. And she's like, nobody really makes me laugh like that. And, and that showed the light side of my personality in that, okay, well, then he's not a douche cause he's actually quite friendly and down to earth or whatever. So that was it, then we had that chance to connect.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Wow, look at that, look at that. So you've been married for how many years now?

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  Uh, since 2009.

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  All right, so this is interesting to me because similar to, to my wife is that I work quite a bit with my wife.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, nice.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  So we're co-parents, lovers, business partners, right? So how, how do you find that? Cause a lot of people will say, never enter into business with your partner.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  But then others say.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  Why not?

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 1:04:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  What's your take?

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  Uh, you know, she's waifaja, right? That's what we refer to as, she's, she's, she's all of it. She manages so many aspects of my life. She co-managed me together with Jeremy and that's like legit. That's not just like, oh, you gotta be here by here, involved fully in, in the decisions of, of my career. And who better, who else is gonna have my back more than my own wife? You know what I mean? And she has this beautiful strength about her. She's a boss lady, but she's gentle, but she's, but she's strong. And, and she, she knows, you know, how to navigate this industry cause she's been in it as an artist herself.

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  You know? I, I love it, man. I, I wouldn't have it any other way. Somehow we've managed to find this beautiful balance where, you know, we can switch off. Like it can go from work talk just to being, you know, husband and wife and co-parents, you know, together, just nothing to do with anything else and just, you know, being, being parents and, and, and husband and wife. And, and it's beautiful. It took, I guess it takes time to get there, but I, but I really enjoy it.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  All right, so you said parents.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  So you have not one, but two.

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  Beautiful children.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  All right, so, and their ages are?

• 1:05:17Speaker 03

  So my daughter's 12, she's gonna be 13 in December and my son's just turned eight.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Just turned eight. All right, so now I'm curious, they were born in the States?

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  What accents do they have?

• 1:05:28Speaker 03

  American, but my son still has my, cause you know, everyone else around them are American. I'm the only Brit, I'm the only Brit around them, so it's not gonna really rub off. That's why I was asking you about yours, cause I'm thinking like, I wonder if they're starting to get a British accent now.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  So you know, I think what they're doing is they're holding on to their American.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  Cause it's cool.

• 1:05:46Speaker 03

  It's cool.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  So my son now, he is crazy, hilarious, cause he's got like a, there's so many words that he says in a British accent, but the rest of it is American and it's just so cute that we don't correct him cause we just kinda still want it to stay like that. But my daughter now, is the funniest thing, she was about two or three years old and this is when she's starting to talk like, you know, a lot. And so she got this British dad, she's got an American mom, we had a Guyanese nanny, okay? So these are her three influences. So one day she comes back from the park and she's crying as she'd, she'd fallen down, right? I said, baby, what's wrong? And she goes, daddy, I was walking in the park.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  Park.

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  Park. And then I don't know what happened, but me just fall down.

• 1:06:32Speaker 03

  I was like, this is crazy, we gotta sort this out.

• 1:06:36Speaker 02

  That's the future.

• 1:06:37Speaker 03

  But it was so cute.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was so cute. But, um, yeah, man, they're, they're my life, bro. My kiddies are my life, they're my life, that they make everything, all this, uh, this crazy world that we live in, they make it all make sense.

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Yes, they are, they are, they are everything. And on that note, I wanna end with a surprise.

• 1:06:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  All right, guess what I have for you?

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  I don't know, but you've been putting out some gems, bro.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  No, you, you don't have to close your eyes for this one. I've got this.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  Now, do you know what this is?

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  No, no idea.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  This is something, should I say, beautiful words.

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  From two of the most important people in your life.

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  Oh, God, you're gonna make me cry, aren't you?

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Not at all, but if I could, I'd like to read this to you. All right. Things I like about daddy.

• 1:07:28Speaker 03

  Oh, God, this is gonna, this is gonna get me emotional, I'm warning you, go on.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  His ability to make me laugh no matter the situation.

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  The random silly videos or pictures he sends of his face.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  This is from Ava, God.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Ava, yeah, especially with the noises? What is that?

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  It's weird stuff. It's just like, I'll do real ugly face. Yeah, have you ever done the ugly face where you hold the camera down here and you make yourself have five kids?

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I've never done it with noises.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  The noise makes it more funnier, just like a weird noise with it.

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  And I also love my daddy-daughter dates.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  Bear burger, tomato.

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:12Speaker 02

  Bubble tea, shopping, pumpkin and bean.

• 1:08:16Speaker 03

  Oh, that's so cute.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  All right, and then it continues. Here's the little one. Things I like about daddy.

• 1:08:24Speaker 03

  Go on.

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  He plays basketball with me. He plays Nintendo Switch with me.

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  We play Uno together.

• 1:08:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot.

• 1:08:35Speaker 02

  And I love when we watch movies together like Rocky.

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  That's beautiful, man.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  Isn't it the best?

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  Thank you, bro. That's, I see, I told you, it's gonna make me emotional, bro. That's, that's it, that's, that's what it's about, man.

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  You, you, you think about all of what you've achieved, all of what you've done, all the people that you have inspired.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  And

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  playing Uno.

• 1:09:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  Watching a film.

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, man.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  Like this, this, these are the most important, this is life. This is life.

• 1:09:14Speaker 03

  On that piece of paper, that's life.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  This is life.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, man.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm gonna give this to you.

• 1:09:18Speaker 03

  That's so sweet, man, thank you. That was a really, that's a really nice thing to, uh...

• 1:09:24Speaker 03

  To hear and to, yeah. That's nice, nice little surprise.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  Very cute, man. Thank you so much.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Definitely hold on to that.

• 1:09:33Speaker 03

  It's so funny, because like, you know, you know, when

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  when you do these things as a father, you hope that they one day remember the little things, like playing Uno, like Daddy Dora dates.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  And that's all you can hope for, that will they remember when they're older? They remember Daddy showed up, that he was there. You know what I mean? So to ask them to just recall and for them to say the exact same things that I love doing with them is really beautiful.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  Yes. And you know what? To me, it's actually this perfect full circle.

• 1:10:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  Because what stands out to me

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  actually most from my conversation with you is you telling me about your grandfather.

• 1:10:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  Putting his

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  hand and just saying, are you happy?

• 1:10:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  And this is in essence, this is the same thing.

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  And these are your children actually responding to you, saying, Daddy, I'm happy.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  I'm good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, man.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  Yep. Well, listen, we are very blessed that we get to do what we do, right? But it has to have meaning. And I think this industry and a lot of this stuff, things are fleeting, right? Moments, you have wins, you have losses, you have this, that and the other. And you can't control any of those elements. Yeah, so happiness and sort of self-worth and peace is, if you pin them in those moments, like, where's my next single gonna chart? Is this one gonna be a smash? Is this video gonna get, go viral? It's very hard to maintain that peace and the happiness and the self-worth.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  These things, you can't control them.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  If this, family, best friends, real things, like, I'm always good there.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Man, I know exactly what you mean. As a dad, I know exactly what you mean.

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, beautiful.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so now, when you look for, you know, towards the next chapter.

• 1:11:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  I know there's a lot. I've seen a lot of projects that you're up to. What are you most excited about?

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  Well, actually, the music is always gonna, we're always gonna be putting out music. You know what I'm saying? But I'm working on the, we have a TV and film division that we've just, a couple of years ago that we set up. So we're actually making movies, documentaries, scripted and non-scripted shows,

• 1:11:50Speaker 03

  which is, dude, so fun for me, because it is still a new world for me. And I'm learning as I'm going along. But like, to be able to learn something new at this stage in our life, that's nice.

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:12:01Speaker 03

  That's really nice.

• 1:12:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:12:02Speaker 03

  And making a few mistakes here and there, figuring it out is beautiful. And we're doing that. I have a scripted comedy drama that we're working on that I'm starring in as myself, but an alternate, you're gonna love this as a dad, you're gonna love this. A scripted comedy drama, me playing me, but like an alternate version of me. So like Larry David in Kirby and Doozy's.

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  Okay, alright, I'm with you.

• 1:12:25Speaker 03

  But in this show, I've like basically retired, okay? And I'm done. I'm done with music. I'm like, ah, I'm good. So now I'm just the suburban Jersey dad. Okay? Like having those awkward conversations about mulch.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  Right, right with your robe?

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  And just, he's hating every minute. He's hating it all, because he was just gracing arenas. And now he's here and there, talking about mulch. And he's like, nah, bro, this can't be it. Nah, I'm not done yet. And he feels like he wants to know. He's got a little fire in his belly. I feel like I need to get back out there. And his teenage daughter's there, Dad, don't you dare. Please don't do this. But he has something he needs to prove. And it's a deeper thing, because the deepness in it is really his bond with his daughter. He wants to repair this bond, because it's kind of, it's not how he thought it was. Because all the time he spent away.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  He was away, yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  So he wants

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  I love this. I love it.

• 1:13:18Speaker 03

  He wants to win his daughter back. And so he thinks the way to do it is by being famous and being popping again. But, you know what I'm saying? So there's pain in there, and there's a lot of, but there's so much heart. But there's so much cringe humor. Of course, it's cringe. You're seeing this guy trying to come out and be a young dude and like, what's up? And like TikToks and all this. And he don't know how to navigate it, but he's willing to do it to get his daughter. So it's a really beautiful show.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 1:13:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  I cannot wait for that, yeah, because I can see it.

• 1:13:44Speaker 03

  You can see it.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  I can see it. It's you, but not you.

• 1:13:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. Exactly. It's gonna be beautiful.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 1:13:49Speaker 03

  So, yeah.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  So, um, final question.

• 1:13:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  Last one.

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Everyone gets it?

• 1:13:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  One of my favorites. When you think through all the incredible conversations you've had in life, which one stands out as the most memorable? So who was it with? And what did you learn?

• 1:14:07Speaker 03

  Conversations.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:10Speaker 03

  Oh, wow, man.

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  I think my dad said something really beautiful to me once when I was younger. And it was probably around the time when we were making this decision. And he said, it was actually around that time. And he said, listen, son. He goes, I can only guide you. It's my job as a dad to guide you and give you some advice. He goes, but this is your life to live. He said, and there's two decisions I want you to make for yourself. He said, number one is your career, and number two is your life partner. Because those two, you live with forever. So make sure you make those choices wisely. I cannot make those choices for you, neither will I. I won't tell you who to marry, and I won't tell you what job to do.

• 1:14:56Speaker 03

  And I kind of had to sit back and think about that, because what does that mean as a parent? To really entrust your child with these two decisions is a big, big thing.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  Right? Because you think, no, no, no, go into this, you're gonna be safe. But he allowed me to dream. He allowed me to fall in love. He allowed me to live my dream. And he allowed me to be with the person that I fell in love with, with all the blessings. And I think that this, that was a really beautiful lesson in that. Because what do we do, right? When, if it doesn't work out? What's the first thing we do? We want to blame someone else. We don't want to take on responsibility.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:15:32Speaker 03

  Dad, see, I told you, you told me I had to study medicine. I hate it. I could have been a singer. And now all I want to do is just like DJ and sing, and I hate my job, and it's because of you. Right? But it was just, I think, a beautiful thing. Own it. Own it. And live it.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  And I think I really respect my dad for that.

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love that.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  You know, I've really appreciated this time.

• 1:15:57Speaker 03

  I've loved it, man.

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I see, you know, you are, you know, you are clearly who you are because of that love from family.

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  Like incredibly blessed. I think, yeah, I think about the knowledge, the emotional safety that they gave you, the inspiration that they gave you, just such a beautiful household. I know, like, you literally just came from the house, I think.

• 1:16:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Speaker 03

  Bro, I stay with my mom and dad when I'm here. I'm a grown man who stays in my mom and dad's house in my childhood bedroom. That's, why, you imagine.

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  You've got a diamond, you got a diamond record.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  And you are staying, really?

• 1:16:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  In the house?

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  Yes. You imagine me now, coming over, how many more times? This is what makes me sad. I live in America, my parents are here, I don't seem enough.

• 1:16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  I'm gonna come over here, be like, yeah, mom, I'm in Knightsbridge, yeah. Staying at the London Hotel, yeah, yeah. Boy, you better come here. Eat the roti, drink the tea. I made you masala omelette. Let's go.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:00Speaker 03

  I'm staying with my parents, man. I want to be around them as much as I can.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  I love it. And that's why your children want to be around you as much as they can.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, bro, that's it.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:17:11Speaker 03

  Oh, bro, what a beautiful conversation, man.

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, really nice, really nice. Wish you the best, man.

• 1:17:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you. I loved it.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  Jay Sean, MC Nicky J. I thought he was light-skinned, right? This was something that many of my friends, we thought he was a, we thought he was black. And or maybe, as he mentioned, Dominican. Or maybe he was Mexican, right? And you think, we never thought South Asian because we haven't seen someone South Asian as an R and B slash rapper slash pop star. And it shows the importance of representation. What I realize Jay has done, not only for the South Asian community, but for all of us, is

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  he truly has widened our scope on what it is to be an R and B singer, or a rapper, or a, or a pop star. He was so confident in self. He would walk away from situations. Walked away from Virgin Records in his twenties. Then he walks away later from Cash Money. At the, you know, as Cash Money is one of the hottest, you know, labels in the United States. That, to me, is someone who is very self-aware, very adjusted,

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  and knows their self-worth. Jay Sean, icon. You believe in polyamory. So then, icon, can you say, how many wives do you have?

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  I'm serious.

• 1:19:02Speaker 03

  Alright, yo, because I like you, and you are my brother.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  Not only are you a musician, artist, but also a businessman.

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  I just wanted to be rich. But the problem is, popularity comes with a cost. Like Michael Jackson, he's my boy. But I just feel like there's a lot of holes on the explanation of his death.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  So as your power and influence grows, do you ever fear a threat against your life?

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  I'll go with some Richard Dye trying, literally.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  It was stealing cars.

• 1:19:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, and now I'm in jail. That's what inspired me, man, to do this, man, because I feel like this ain't the life I want to live. When I was in there, I would just write on strength. So now, every time a guard would walk past, we would sing the song out together. Locked up, they won't let me out. They won't let me out alive. That's when I realized, okay, music is just a vehicle for me to do what I need to do.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  Alright, so I didn't know we were getting to this topic.

• 1:19:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:57Speaker 02

  But we got it, I mean, we're here.

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  We're here.

• 1:20:00Speaker 02

  We need to talk.

• 1:20:00Speaker 03

  I'm giving you my word today, you'll be the one I give the exclusive to.

• 1:20:07Speaker 00

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• 1:21:07Speaker 00

  Hi there, I am fully charged and here to tell you, Toy Story 5 is now on Disney Plus.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

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• 1:21:15Speaker 00

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