"The audition went horribly wrong!" Shirley Ballas & Ore Oduba on Strictly Come Dancing

Strictly Come Dancing legends Shirley Ballas and Ore Oduba reveal what really happens behind the scenes of television’s biggest show. From surviving severe online hate and high-stakes audition blunders to navigating intense imposter syndrome, Shirley and Ore share the emotional lows, career pivots, and life-changing moments that come with performing in front of 14 million people. We're Talking Strictly Come Dancing! (00:00) Intro(01:13) Ore's Strictly Journey and Finding Himself Through Dance (12:13) How Shirley Became a Strictly Judge (17:42) Why Strictly Became a National Phenomenon (19:22) How Shirley Feels About Strictly's Critics (21:19) Why Shirley Loves Being Part of Strictly (22:55) The Celebrity Shirley Would Love to See on Strictly (23:40) The Most Surprising Strictly Contestants Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Welcome to We're Talking. In today's episode, I sit down with Strictly Cum dancing legends Shirley Ballas and Ore Oduba to talk about the show that has captivated millions of people and the very different journeys that brought them to the dance floor.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  I had no clue how large the viewership was, how committed the audience was to Strictly. I had no clue until We Need to Talk. We've had various people who've been on Strictly on We Need to Talk. So I believe that when you were on Strictly, we're talking about over 13 million people watching.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  I think the peak audience that watched that final was over 13, maybe 14 million people. It's way over 50% of the viewership. And you think that moment is crazy because that will be 10 years ago next year.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  That'll be 10 years ago.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Look at that. And when I say your name, what people tell me is that they associate you with Newsround and Strictly.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  They're like, wasn't that the guy that went Strictly? Yeah, I know exactly who he is, right? So it's one of those where it was this moment in history, from what I understand, you always wanted to be a part of Strictly.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  This was a dream of yours.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  This was.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Which is interesting. That was a dream of yours, but now understanding how you came alive on stage, it makes sense to me.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And do you know what was so crazy? Because I had forgotten about that person, that Spice Girls performing kid. And it was only about halfway through that series that a light went off.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  And I went, oh my, oh my God.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  This is everything that used to bring me to life.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  And it was visceral. It was visceral because I approached that series going, I really want to put in all of this industry and all of this work that I've ever loved and learnt and all of that, you know, trying to excel that I've been taught along with this show that I adore. You know, you all know Bruce Forsyth.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Anything that Bruce touched turned to gold. It was a huge hit. And from 18 years old, I wasn't bothered about Saturday nights going out and chasing girls. I wanted to watch that show that Bruce was hosting. And when I start working at the BBC, you know, on a Saturday, the whole building comes to life. You know, there's a buzz around. I always compare it to Wonka's factory. There's a buzz around, you know, the chimneys are smoking because there's life in that building now and the audience is queuing around the corner. And I feel like a kid with my nose pressed up against the window going, I want to be, I want to be in there.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  I don't know what happens in there, but I'd love to be in there.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  And everybody wants to be on Strictly.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  And I remember them giving me a call just to meet. And I thought, they know who I am? They know who I am. I'm nobody. This is wild. I'm, I might, in five years' time, I might have a chance to be on that show. And I remember going to that meeting and going, I mean, I'm going to tell them how obsessed I am with this show. I've been watching it at this point now for over 10 years. And every single winner, I remember that dance, I remember that score, I remember that moment when it went wrong on television.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  That you were a Strictly star.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  I was a superfan and I did not hide it. And I thought, well, you know, maybe they'll pick up the phone in a couple of years' time, but I think I put my best foot forward and I didn't hide it. And two months later, I got the call. And I was, I, I, I wasn't ready for what was going to happen. Of course, this wasn't planned, let alone being on the show. We had conversations, but being on the show was one thing. Going through that course for four months, like you said, in people's homes, in people's families, the affection and the connection they have to this show, how much it brings

• 5:15Speaker 02

  people's hearts alive. And I'm having this self-discovery in the middle of going, oh, okay, hold on. This isn't just the show that I was a fan of. This is the person that had been dimmed for decades, that is now starting to say, hello, I'm, I'm, I'm still here, by the way. And so, you know, that series for me was an awakening because we just didn't want to go home, Paul. We knew we weren't the best pair, but we just, we both, I was, I was dancing with a

• 5:56Speaker 02

  world champion who had themselves from childhood, had been working every second of their day to be at the very, very top. And that for me was like being given the Cristiano Ronaldo of the dance world. You've got the opportunity to get everything you need to be the very best that you can be.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  It's, she was, this is Joanne.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  This is my beautiful Joanne.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Yes. So Joanne was a world champion, right? You have to admit, you walked in not too bad. Not, not too bad.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  After a couple of tequilas, Paul, everyone's not too bad.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Not too bad. Okay. So not too bad. So what I want to know is what made you feel like you and Joanne were the outsiders?

• 6:45Speaker 02

  I guess I was a nobody, Paul.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  I was achieving and I was enjoying my career at that point, but you know, we're in a room full of people who've sold out arenas in the music industry, people who have prime time, household name status on television, who've come back from the Olympic Games with gold medals.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  And I'm going, I don't know why I'm here. I, I, I am so thrilled that I've been invited to, to be here. But I think, and I was told this actually, there was a moment in the first couple of weeks where we might have been dumped out.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  And I think about that and think, I wouldn't be sat here with you had a number of votes gone a different way.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  And my whole life might have hinged on that. Because it was only through winning that show that gave me the confidence to do some crazy stuff. And I guess what the audience saw is a transformation because I did go from somebody that not many people knew, who put heart, soul, tears into every step. And I look back at that series now and I think of the person that was, I still have people to this day come up to me and go, you cried a lot on telly, didn't you? And it's so fascinating, Paul, because this is only 2016.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  Now we are so desperate to find men, especially, comfortable with emotion.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Visibly.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  If you rewind, that person who always wanted to be that, always wanted to be validated for expressing themselves in a way that felt authentic to themselves, but never was.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  And you're getting the judges, only heap and praise. That's kind of their job. They've got to be enthusiastic. They've got to try and help you along. But really seeing that here is someone who is falling in love with this incredible art form, really committing themselves and actually kind of turning into, maybe as far as I know, the person that they were always meant to be, right before their very eyes.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  So for me to hear that from the people that I looked up to, having not had it.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  That was the inner child going,

• 9:39Speaker 02

  I'm getting the thing I've always wanted.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yes, I could see it. Such an inflection point for you.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Huge, huge. And again, it wasn't about winning, really wasn't. I just thought, what an amazing opportunity, what an incredible opportunity to learn, to find out something about yourself. And this was a decade before my therapy journey. What an amazing opportunity to find something about yourself

• 10:04Speaker 02

  in an environment that is safe, that is uplifting, that is about learning, that it's about expression.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Yes, you have got to put on a show for 12 million people. But for six days of that week, you are going into a place that you never knew existed. And that, for anybody, is really the only moment that you start discovering who you really are.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  And that was happening right in front of people's eyes. And it was happening for me for the first time in my adult life.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  When you found out that you won, I saw the clip.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  But now that you can reflect back upon that moment,

• 10:54Speaker 01

  truly, how did you feel at that moment?

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Utter disbelief because you kind of, if you have had those moments where you know, and I know you're a very present person, but sometimes things happen to you that you're, something leaves and you're able to have this kind of bird's eye view of what's actually happening.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  You leave yourself. That happened. I remember just trying, seeing confetti and all of these amazing people that we'd been on this path and this journey with.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  And kind of

• 11:39Speaker 02

  going, I think, I think my life is changing. And I don't know how it looks tomorrow. This is, this is everything that I've ever dreamt of. I have to make it count. And I think had we not won it, I wouldn't have been brave enough to make a pivot.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  So what was the pivot and why?

• 12:07Speaker 02

  I remembered the kid that I was and I remembered that being on stage is somewhere where I came alive. And I thought, I don't know how,

• 12:18Speaker 02

  but I, I need to make that,

• 12:22Speaker 02

  I need to make that matter now. I need to go down that route. And as a winner of Strictly, those doors are open. It's up to you to keep them open.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 13:11Speaker 04

  Mark said to me at lunch one day, I hear Uncle Len, because we've known Len all our life, he was also one of my teachers, is leaving Strictly Come Dancing. I said, and where did you hear that? He said, on the grapevine, Mum. Why don't you inquire and see? I said, no one's going to want a 57 year old lady to go into TV who's never sat behind camera lights. He said, but how do you know if you don't try? Anyway, I was due to sit with Strictly Come Dancing over another student. It was actually AJ at the time, talking about different talent, because I find talent for all the shows around the world to do with Strictly, Dancing with the Stars around the world. And Len's name came up.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  And I said, well, I've heard that they might be leaving and they were a little bit coy. And I said, you know, it would be nice to think that one day perhaps you could have a woman in that role. And eventually they asked me, would I like to have an audition for that? And I said to Mark, should I? Shouldn't I? He said, absolutely. I paid my own way over, had the audition, which went horribly wrong.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  And what, because I've, I've heard you say that this was a horrible audition.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Horrible experience.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  What, what, what was the audition?

• 14:24Speaker 04

  Well, I flew in from LA. I had sciatic. I've had a bad back for 25 years. Had sciatic, I could barely walk, one foot in front of the other. And they made me all up. It was early in the morning, all the eyelashes and the hair and a long dress. They sat me behind all these cameras, green lights, red lights. I've never done that. And then they sat next to me, this huge human being, which turned out to be Craig Revel-Horwood. And I didn't know him at all. And then he just sat there, you know, and you know how he does, hmm, taps like this, just Craig. I'm more friendly and chitty chatty, but I would sat there frozen. It was freezing in the studio. And up come the cameras and the lady said, now we're going to throw a couple upon the screen.

• 15:10Speaker 04

  You have 15 seconds to critique it. You know, what would you say in 15 seconds? Now, I'm used to a 45 minute lesson where I can go from your feet to the top of your head. I thought to myself, I can do this. I can do this. And up there she comes, Anne Whittaker, spinning in that yellow dress like a bird on the floor. And this gentleman turned around to me goes, we haven't got all week, darling. 15 seconds. So I missed that one. So I said, well, I'm so sorry. I'm looking at the red and the green, all the wrong cameras. Could we try somebody else? And then it was Gangum style. And I just failed miserably. It was, it was just a mess. Anyway, they called me graciously. She called me, listed, how do you think you did?

• 15:53Speaker 04

  I said, to be honest, shit, awful. Sorry for the language, but it was bad, very bad. She said, could you change your airline tickets and come in for another audition? Tomorrow, in a pair of jeans and a blouse, one cameraman and me. And then they showed me something else and I sat up all night, Mark was courses in LA, going through things and, and I nailed that one.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Look at that. And the rest, and the rest is history.

• 16:19Speaker 04

  And then I went back to LA. I'd done the best that I could do. And I got the call when I was teaching in work and they said, we'd like to offer you the job. Couldn't believe it. My son was the first person I called. And he could tell by my face, he goes, you got that job, didn't you, Mum? And he's been, he dressed me. He gave me advice on how he thought I should dress. And

• 16:42Speaker 04

  the devil wears Prada. I remember him saying to me, those tailored suits and chic look, you know?

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:47Speaker 04

  So, and that's how that journey began because of him.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  Always been there for me in everything.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  I didn't realize how integral he was in you getting that role. Not just getting the role, but styling for the role, everything.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  Everything. And even after the first series, he said to me, now listen to me, Mum. These dancers don't want to be British champions. He said, I switched my TV on to watch you and even I was scared. He said, you've got those glasses, your face is too firm. The general public will never warm to you. And I'd signed a two year contract and he said, you're going to have to soften the edges. It was an ongoing process because it was years and years of me trying to protect myself as a, you know, that little vulnerable child. And I think gradually now I've, I've gotten there. I've learnt to talk about your critique with a smile on my face. Rather than saying, now, dear Paul, what on earth was that footwork? Paul, what are you doing with your feet?

• 17:46Speaker 04

  Let's see what we can do. So I think I've generally learned, you know, that they, and, and I do give good firm feedback, you know, for the first six or seven weeks, I'm quite, quite firm, but fair and kind and always, as Mark says, give them hope.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Hmm. Yes. Keep hope alive.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Keep hope alive.

• 18:04Speaker 04

  Alive.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  So, so now that was, your career was blossoming. But the media, from what I understand, was giving you a hard time, especially in that 2017 year.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  I, I wouldn't say it was the media. I think now when I look back, it was the people that were selling their stories. My ex-husband sold his story for thousands and thousands and thousands and made me out to be this awful person. But back then, nobody knew who this person was. So nobody could really relate.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:34Speaker 04

  So it didn't really have the effect, you know, that it would have like today, if you, if you know what I mean.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  But now with, with Strictly being so big, like you, I mean, you probably know the numbers better than me, but when I was looking at that, like, I'm, I'm still blown away at the size of, of, of Strictly. So.

• 18:52Speaker 04

  We're 54% share of the TV.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 18:55Speaker 04

  Everybody who is watching live TV last year, we were 53 to 54% of all live TV. That, the nation loves this show.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 19:04Speaker 04

  From the grandchildren to the grandparents to everybody in between. I'll get in a taxi and the man will say, don't tell anybody, Mrs. Ballas, but I recognize you from the TV, you know, I watch, I watch. You know, so it's, it's the nation's, one of the last shows, live shows to still be going on. Baubles, Bangles and Beads on a Saturday evening when the cold weather's coming. As soon as Strictly starts, we know we are the run up to Christmas.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  To Christmas. Yes, it is that season.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  It's that season, the cold season. We all come in the house, they can get a takeaway or cook their little things and have a glass of wine and get together and talk about or criticize the armchair people that have watched it, you know, much longer than me, let's say.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Yes. But, but do you feel like, okay, when that season comes, you're excited, but yet you know, here comes the criticism as well. Does, does, does that wait on you? And I'll give you my, my take because this is actually my season too, Shirley. This is when Married at First Sight hits the, hits the air, right? And what I always feel is I feel excited. Married at First Sight is on air. We've worked all year for this. This is going to be incredible. But at the same time, I know, okay, here come the critics. Get this guy off TV. He shouldn't be on, right? So I know it's coming, not just for me, but for everyone. Do you feel that same way with Strictly?

• 20:26Speaker 04

  I used to feel that way, you know, 2017, 18 and 19 were some of the worst years of people doing stick figures with my face on and coffins and die you bitch and some of the worst trolling that I was just learning about. I was not on social media. So 2017 and 18, I'm just learning about this thing and about trolls. I had no idea. That was hard to navigate and for the thousands and thousands of wonderful compliments that I got, I'd focus on the negative ones. You've got bingo wings, you're wrinkled, you look too heavy, you've got no business. What do you know, you know? I think that Louise did a very good move when she made me dance the samba on season

• 21:09Speaker 04

  2017 to open the show and people could see that I could dance. And again, they've had the judges dance now on this opening number and quite a long number. I think over a minute I get to dance the samba and Moti gets to do the rumba and Anton's doing his foxtrot and Craig's the host and we're going through the 70s, 80s and 90s era with all the boys. It's a fantastic opening, two new professionals and, you know, we're all going to be clamored back on, you know, we're not in those pods anymore. We're going to be sitting shoulder to shoulder, the judges. So I'll be able to touch Craig and Anton and Moti will be really, really close. So I think this year is going to prove to be iconic. And of course, who wouldn't get excited about that?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 21:53Speaker 04

  But I still have my own job. I'm running up to the international championships at the Royal Albert Hall in October, you know. So I have all the competitive couples and then I'm working hard to get them where they need to go. And then I have the Strictly job. I literally have to switch a button, press a red button to lights, camera, action. And then back to teaching the kids to get into the international, lights, camera, action.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  So clearly you love doing Strictly.

• 22:18Speaker 04

  I love dance. I love music. I love watching people come on this show, getting all excited. You know, people need to remember, I danced with a pro amateur.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:31Speaker 04

  I danced with Corky. I know what it's like to be a professional and have a beginner amateur.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  I know what it's like. So when those people walk down the stairs, I go back to my memories when I started with Corky.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  So I've been there, I've done that. I've got the T-shirt. And of course, I've watched my own son for over 20 years on his show. So yeah, I get excited about that and going in on a Saturday. And we don't finish till the week before Christmas this year. So it's a, it's a full run and it's going to be an iconic show. When are you going to do it, by the way?

• 23:05Speaker 01

  I tell you what.

• 23:07Speaker 04

  You're next.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  I tell you what, Shirley. I am, you know, I love to dance.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  I love to dance, but I haven't danced in so long. You know, it's one of those where I think I let life just take me, you know, but I was.

• 23:26Speaker 04

  It runs away with you. Before you know it, you'll be my age. You have a beautiful ballroom neck. You've got turned out feet. So if you ever want to do it, just let us know, okay?

• 23:35Speaker 01

  I've turned out feet?

• 23:36Speaker 04

  Yes, I've got your little, I've, would see this foot, certainly. It's not like the.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  That's a good thing.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  It's a good thing. Yeah, maybe one day, huh?

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Maybe one day, maybe one day. Now, with Strictly being on air, clearly there's so many incredible celebrities that are on. But do you have that one celebrity you've always wanted to come on?

• 23:57Speaker 04

  I want Tom Jones to come on. Where is he? The love of my life? Or a person from the royal family? I haven't quite got there yet.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:05Speaker 04

  But I think I've, sometimes the celebrity comes on and I actually don't know them because like people didn't know me. I was at the top of my industry. Nobody knew who I was. So sometimes we all live in bubbles. You live in your bubble world. I live in my bubble world. Danny Dyer and all these other ones, they all live in their own little bubbles. And then we get the opportunity to go into their different bubbles. And by the first few weeks, you're falling in love with people.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Yes. And I can't even ask you to compare the.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  I can't.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  The lineups. Because it's one of those where each, each year just must be just rewarding to you.

• 24:40Speaker 04

  Well, who would have thought Bill Bailey would have won? He came down in his gold trousers, week one, and I looked at Moti and I went, he did his chop chop chana, turned to Moti and said, oh, I'm not sure. He went on to win. You know why? He worked harder than everybody else. He studied his craft. He knew everything about my career. He knew everything about every dance he was doing. He was a musician and he just did the right amount of everything and the audience fell in love with him.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  So I was going to ask you, who was your biggest surprise over the years? Was, was he your biggest surprise?

• 25:11Speaker 04

  Bill Bailey was for sure. And then Kelvin Fletcher stepping in at the last minute for Jamie Lang.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:17Speaker 04

  He wasn't even supposed to be on the show. He went on to win. At the end of the day, this show doesn't belong to me or anybody else. It belongs to the nation and they get to vote and in the final, they get to pick the winner. And I think that's how it should be.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Yes, fair enough. And if you want to hear the full, unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment and hit subscribe. See you next week.

• 25:59Speaker 00

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's Fall Drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 26:29Speaker 05

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters. So you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.