Kelly Osbourne on Ozzy’s Final Words and Choosing Herself “I Didn’t Know What I Looked Like”

Kelly Osbourne opens up about Ozzy Osbourne’s final days, growing up in The Osbournes and the reality of becoming famous as a teenager in her first sit-down since her father’s passing. She reflects on her father’s death, why she believes he was preparing her for his passing, and her complicated relationship with her sister Aimee. Kelly looks back at the overnight success of The Osbournes, being followed by paparazzi and relentlessly scrutinised for her appearance. She also revisits the backlash she received after the BRITs, when comments about her body overshadowed her father’s lifetime achievement award, and the impact the press had on her confidence and mental health. She opens up about addiction and the pain she was trying to escape, including one of the darkest periods of her life while her mother was battling cancer. Kelly reflects on returning to drinking after her father’s death and how grief and motherhood have brought her into a new chapter - finally ready to step beyond being “Ozzy Osbourne’s daughter” and build a life on her own terms. Kelly Osbourne, We Need To Talk This episode includes topics of suicidal ideation, body image, addiction and grief. If these subjects are difficult for you, please watch with care. We have included links to support resources here: Samaritans: https://linkly.link/2dx7Z CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Kelly here: https://www.instagram.com/kellyo https://www.tiktok.com/@kellyosbourneyo (00:00) Intro (02:01) Kelly Reads A Letter From Paul's Wife Jill (05:15) Losing Her Father Ozzy Osbourne (08:14) Growing Up In England (12:07) Moving To LA At 13 (15:23) The Osbournes And Party Years (25:29) The Press And Body Image (27:23) The BRITs Backlash (33:52) Huel Ad (34:55) The Osbournes Changed Reality TV (38:17) Life Inside The Osbournes (48:52) Becoming Famous Overnight (01:02:20) Addiction And Escaping Pain (01:06:31) Working With Joan Rivers (01:08:43) Finding Her Own Identity (01:10:35) Her Bond With Ozzy Osbourne (01:11:51) Surprise Photo (01:14:18) Sharon And Ozzy's Love Story (01:17:52) Why Family Mattered To Ozzy Osbourne (01:27:36) Ozzy's Final Months (01:28:59) Sharon Behind Ozzy's Success (01:37:35) Her Relationship With Jack (01:40:04) Becoming A Mother (01:44:53) Working With Dolly Parton (01:55:21) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Huel - http://uk.huel.com/WNTT use code WNTT for £10 off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:45Speaker 02

  The girl that I was before my father passed is dead. That girl will never come back.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  The night before the Osbournes launch, my mom said, "If we just make the biggest mistake of our lives." I woke up the next day, and I was literally the most famous 16-year-old in the world. All of the fat jabs came in. I went from thinking that there was nothing wrong with me to having an incredible amount of insecurity.

• 1:14Speaker 03

  You and your mother went to the Brits. If you look at the comments...

• 1:19Speaker 02

  I got assassinated over something that should have been about my dad and his legacy. I don't really recall anyone standing up for me. And I'll be honest with you, even to my own family. I never did drugs because I wanted a party. I just didn't want to feel the pain.

• 1:32Speaker 03

  The pain of what?

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Nothing took me out like losing my dad. I started drinking again. I lost not just my father, but my hero. I truly believed that my dad was slowly preparing me for it. Three days later, he was gone.

• 1:47Speaker 03

  What are you discovering about yourself?

• 1:49Speaker 02

  I'm good enough on my own. I don't need to just be as Yosborn's daughter. I am so sick of everyone else controlling the narrative of me. I get to say who I am. You don't.

• 1:57Speaker 03

  I want to show you this.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  You asshole.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  And of course, you would call me an asshole.

• 2:06Speaker 03

  Look, pause with me for just a second. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please, take a second and hit the follow button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  There's so many stories that I want to hear from you. There's so many people who have come in and out of your life that I want to talk about. But I'd love to start this conversation in a way that we've never started before.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  All right, we've never done this. This is special for you, Kelly.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, I'm honored.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  All right, so let me tell you. I am leaving my house this morning, and my wife, Jill, stops me. And she gives me this. Now, you see whose name is on this?

• 3:27Speaker 02

  I'm a bit nervous now.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  It's your name.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Now, we have had... This is our... We've been doing this podcast for two years. 100-plus guests. She's loved, loved many of our guests, right? She has never, ever written anything to any one of our... ever. Now, she wanted me to give this to you in private, but I'm going to thoroughly embarrass her.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  Okay, let's see. What are we gonna have me into, as I know it?

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Here's what's interesting about this. This is a risk because I do not know...

• 4:03Speaker 02

  What's in it?

• 4:03Speaker 03

  What's in it. But I asked her if I could share this with you while we're filming, and she said yes. So this is from my wife to you.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. Oh, my God, this means so much to me. You have no idea. Oh, my God, this card's amazing. "Kelly, I'm so sorry I couldn't be there today, but I wanted to send you a little note to let you know how much I've admired you over the last year." Over years, sorry. "I've followed your journey since the Osbournes, through all the years since. I've always admired your boldness, your bravery, your willingness to live the truth in an industry that can be incredibly critical and unforgiving. And now to see the beautiful family you've created is just lovely. I also wanted to say

• 4:57Speaker 02

  how deeply sorry I am for the loss of your dad. I was very close to my own father, and when I lost him, I spiraled in ways I never could have imagined. So while everyone's grief is uniquely their own, I have some sense of just how disorientating or consuming that kind of loss can be. The fact that you continue to show up for the people you love even while carrying such enormous grief says so much about you. I hope you're giving yourself all the grace, time you need. And finally, should you ever fancy escaping to do lunch,

• 5:42Speaker 02

  you're always welcome to our place. Sending you lots of love." Oh, my God, thank you.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  You know, it's stuff like this that they got me through. You know, the outpouring of love and support and people just being so kind and understanding because you don't understand grief until you've really been through it. And I mean, I'd lost people before that I truly loved, but nothing took me out like losing my dad.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  You know, I had no idea what was going to be in that. And what Jill mentioned is she did. She lost her father. And to me, what was so painful to see in it is that I could see that there was a part of her that would never come back.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  No, I always... I've said many times, "The girl that I was before my father passed is dead. That girl will never come back." And I had to figure out everything from like ground zero to now. I will never be the same again. I lost not just my father, but my best friend, my main protector, my biggest cheerleader, my hero, the one who always had my back. And I believe

• 7:43Speaker 02

  the only person in this world who has ever truly seen me for who I am and loved me anyway.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Unconditionally, yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Anticipatory grief is a whole nother thing in itself.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Because you know something's gonna happen. We were told it was going to happen. You just don't know when. So you sit there and you're like, "Is this the last time I'm gonna see you? Is this the last time I'm gonna hug you? Is this the last conversation we're ever gonna have?" And I was so lucky because, in a sense, I truly believe that my dad went out exactly the way he wanted to. And he was slowly preparing me for it along the way.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  That's interesting.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  Over the course of several years, you think?

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Specifically over a course of several months.

• 8:39Speaker 03

  Several months, okay, okay. What I would love to do is even to honor your father in this and to honor you is I would love if we can get to know the Kelly... What do you call you, Kelly?

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Totsie.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Totsie.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Kelly Tots or Totsie, yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  Kelly Tots. I want us to get a chance to meet Kelly Tots, the whole world, you know? And I'd love to walk through your journey and really understand you, you know? And I think it's time for us, for the world, to know you. Can we go to the beginning?

• 9:17Speaker 02

  To the beginning.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Oh, and is it Beaconsfield?

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Beckinsfield.

• 9:21Speaker 03

  Beckinsfield. You know, I had to go look this up on a map. It's like, where's Beckinsfield? So you were born in Beckinsfield?

• 9:29Speaker 02

  No, I was born in Westminster. Spent the first two years of my... year and a half or two years of my life in Hampstead.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  And then my mom decided that she didn't want us to grow up in London. She wanted us to have like garden and outside country life. And I look back on it now, and I have such fond memories of my childhood, growing up in England. And I mean, I send my son to the same school I went to.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Really?

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 03

  Really?

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  And there's one teacher there that was there when I was there.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  Really? Look at that.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  And how does that teacher remember you? Who was Kelly?

• 10:10Speaker 02

  I was, you know...

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Very.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Just like I've always marched the beat of my own drum kind of thing.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  So how long were you here in England before moving to?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  I moved to America when I was thirteen.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  Okay, so you, this is interesting. So you were here up until thirteen. So my youngest is almost thirteen. And he's now spent over half of his life.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Here. Does he have an English accent or an American?

• 10:40Speaker 03

  So this is what's interesting is he, I think, so he has an American accent. But I think he tries to hold on.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  To the American accent.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  To the American accent.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  See, my little one is getting a twang now and I'm like, please get rid of the American. Please get rid of the American. I want it to go away. And I think in the next full year of being in school every day and only being around English people, I do think it's gonna fade because I'm hearing it fade.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  But it, it, it comes in and out. It's almost like Mark Ronson. If you know what I mean.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  And it, it's very like, I think it's a conscious thing though, because my brother does not sound English anymore.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  This is interesting. You know what? You're right. You're talking about Jack.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, he, he.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  He does not sound English anymore. And, but me and my mom still sound very English.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  So.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  So, so why is that? Do you think he just leaned into the American?

• 11:40Speaker 02

  I think it's also the way that you have to move your mouth in order to sound American.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  And I don't think that it was a very me thing.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  Like you have to really elongate things.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  And it just didn't, it just didn't feel authentic to me.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  No, no. I tell you, I mean, me personally, now I've been here for, right, nine years. I love the British, I love, I love so many things about British.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  You can walk two blocks over and then it's a completely different accent.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  Completely.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Like you could be in Pimlico and then you could be in Westminster and is a completely different accent.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, entirely different. Whereas in the US, there's so fewer accents, right? At thirteen though, did you, where did, because, because at thirteen, I'm thinking, okay, your father at thirteen is a very successful musician, worldwide.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  I didn't have any understanding of money or fame or any of that.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  You knew nothing about this.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  I just, it's what my dad did. That was it. But it wasn't until I moved to America where I understood the competitive nature of money, fame and the kind of car you drove.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  Right. And also too is you moved from the UK to LA.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  And, and as you said, you were outside of London too.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  So you moved to LA. That was.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  I was like, I was fresh off the boat, like not understanding the ways of Californian life and even though I was accepted because of the fact that my parents were in the industry.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  So I technically belonged.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  I didn't like it.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  I never felt like I fit in. I still don't feel like I fit in over there. I've always felt like there wasn't like a place for me unless I was in the gay community.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Because

• 13:42Speaker 02

  the gay community is what taught me how to be me.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Because

• 13:51Speaker 02

  when you think about it, like, you know, drag queens taught me makeup. They taught me, you know, to be fiercely yourself, no matter what anyone says and that you can be creative in ways that you never thought imaginable. And they taught me how to stand properly and more ladylike and because I was a bit of a tomboy and I wanted to know more girly things, but I just, I, I didn't really have access to it.

• 14:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Until I started hanging out with the gays.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  And, and what age were you at that point?

• 14:30Speaker 02

  Probably about fourteen, fifteen.

• 14:32Speaker 03

  Fourteen. So then at thirteen though, it sounds like you were, for the most part, ostracized. You were on your own.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, pretty much. Like when I went to school, like

• 14:46Speaker 02

  I didn't really make a lot of friends. I, I just didn't seem to, and it wasn't because

• 14:56Speaker 02

  it was just like, even though we spoke the same language, we didn't.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Like they cared about things that I had no concept of.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  And they, you know, the world of glitz and glamour wasn't what it is now.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  And people's value wasn't necessarily based on what car you drove and what handbag you have and

• 15:26Speaker 02

  if you had a private jet, like those are all things that were part of my life that I didn't know wasn't normal.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Okay. So at thirteen also though, thirteen is where I think a lot of us are beginning to form our identity. And moving from one country to another, specifically, I think, going to LA, it, it, it must

• 15:49Speaker 03

  impact how you saw yourself, right? So what was your identity?

• 15:53Speaker 02

  I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, I was just, I was just me.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  The impact on my identity didn't happen until I became famous and that happened overnight.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  I went from just being a kid to one of the most famous people in the entire world in one night. And I remember the night before the Osbournes launched on TV. Me, my mom and my brother went for a walk on Vennish Beach and we all looked at each other. And my mom said, have we just made the biggest mistake of our lives?

• 16:28Speaker 02

  And I was like, I don't know. Because we weren't normal. We weren't like everyone else, but we were just being ourselves.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden the judgment came in and I was like, the very next day, there were paparazzi outside my house, people waiting in cars to follow me. I, I thought I was being like stalked or something. I had no idea. Like, why would they want to take a picture of me? It's not about me. It's more about my mom and dad. Like, I didn't even think the show was gonna make me famous.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  And I was just excited because it was MTV. It was cool, like.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  You were a teenager?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, MTV is the hottest, hottest network.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  And then all of the fat jabs came in and it was like, oh, she's fat and she's this, she's that and she dresses weird. And, and I went from just being so comfortable being me and thinking that, that there was nothing wrong with me to having an incredible amount of instant insecurity.

• 17:30Speaker 03

  So what was family life like for the Osbournes before MTV, before the, so you get to LA? Who is it? It's you.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  Me, my brother, my sister and my dad and my mom.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  And your mom. Okay. So your sister's one year older.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  Amy.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Amy, yes.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Your, Jack is one year younger.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Younger.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  All right. So it's the three of you.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  I'm the middle one.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  You're the, of course you are.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  The crazy one.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Of course you're the middle child, right? Of course you are. And so you're living in LA. It's your mom, it's your dad. Now, how LA were you? Did you have like staff? Drivers, masseuse?

• 18:07Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  No.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  We lived firstly, well, kind of.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Firstly, we moved into the Sunset Marquis Hotel.

• 18:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  And I lived there for a little bit. I'd lived there on and off throughout periods of my whole life. Like, I'm like the Eloise of that hotel. And then we moved to the Beverly Hills Hotel.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  And that's where we started to meet everyone. And

• 18:39Speaker 02

  that's where we started to realize, wait, we can do certain things. Like we can go out to a club. And yeah, and I was like thirteen years old, walking out my parents' front door, walking to Sunset Strip and, and going to the Roxy or going to On The Rocks, which is upstairs or, and then because we'd been on tour with so many bands throughout our whole lives, whenever they were in town or if they were based in LA, they knew us. They always looked after us. And like, for example, Incubus or, um, I'm trying to think, like, like any of the bands that, when they were in town, they got to know me and my brother specifically so well that they'd be like, yeah, we got him, Sharon, we'll take him out tonight.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  And that kind of developed into like me getting to know the whole club scene in, in LA and before the Lindsay Law got put in place.

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Okay, which, the Lindsay Law?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  There is Lindsay Lohan because she was underage and doing everything that she was doing at the time. Again, we were young.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  It was a different time.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  I could get in anywhere. I'd bake my own drinks behind the bar.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  And you, you were living in the Beverly Hills Hotel? My gosh. So for people who don't know, the Beverly Hills Hotel is like super iconic. And I believe it's one of the most expensive hotels in the world. I think it's the most expensive hotel in the world, isn't it?

• 20:01Speaker 02

  One of them, I think, yeah. We live, but we've lived, we lived in Bungalow 5A. And

• 20:10Speaker 02

  it was great. Our house was one street over on Beverly Drive. It was 906 North Beverly Drive and it was being rebuilt. So we lived there while it was being rebuilt. And then we finally moved in.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  And then my mom found another house that she liked better, which was on Doherty Road. And while that house was being built, we moved into the Sunset Marquis again.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  And during that time is when we signed the contract for the Osborne. So I don't believe I was quite sixteen yet. I couldn't drive.

• 20:41Speaker 03

  Ah, okay.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  And when we finally moved into, um,

• 20:48Speaker 02

  The house that we filmed the Osbournes in.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  That's when it all kind of started and we were like, I was like, every night. I remember it was like Paris Hilton on roller skates in clubs and it was a different time. That was so fun in Hollywood. It really was like the streets were paved with endless possibilities and gold. And anyone could become anything and it was fun. But now it's like people shitting in the streets and following you home from restaurants and

• 21:23Speaker 02

  rubbing you at gunpoint and it's it's a different world there now.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  It's a different world. It is. It is. It is.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  I want to make very clear, I never did drugs because I wanted a party. I never drank because I wanted a party. I just didn't want to feel the pain.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  What was the pain? The pain of what?

• 21:43Speaker 02

  The insecurity, the self doubt, the

• 21:48Speaker 02

  not feeling deserving because you have to understand, like, I went to bed one night and then I woke up the next day and I was literally the most famous sixteen year old in the world. And I couldn't figure out why.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  I didn't feel like I deserved it or worked for it or like it didn't it didn't make sense. And then everything, like articles that people wrote about me and the things that they've said about me throughout my whole life, specifically me. And I'm not just talking about like, I'm a victim, like, no, I'm just talking that is factual. No, I can't think of any other celebrity who has had to deal with as much abuse from the media

• 22:40Speaker 02

  for nothing than me.

• 22:43Speaker 03

  I want us to talk about it because I think that also is what unfortunately, that's what I remember.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  I mean, people would be fired and like cancelled for the shit they wrote about me.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I I what it's interesting because I think back to the Osbournes. I think about here's how I remember it, unfortunately.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  I know.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, here's how I remember it. I remember it as Ozzy Osbourne, larger than life rock star.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  Out of his mind.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  Right, out of his mind, right, but larger than life rock star.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  His wife Sharon is out of her mind as well, but she's able to control this tornado. That's Ozzy Osbourne. And then she has these two kids. They are rebels. They're loud. They are yelling at each other. They are troublemakers. Right?

• 23:48Speaker 02

  I was a little anarchist. I won't, I can't deny it.

• 23:51Speaker 03

  This is this is this is who they are. And this was what I felt like what was sold. Now, for the show even comes about, you're already

• 24:02Speaker 02

  In that world.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  You're already in that world. You're already abusing drugs. And what is your identity? Because you said you feel like you don't fit in. So how did you view yourself?

• 24:13Speaker 02

  I will say that I look back on it now and I was like, shit, like, I really had a lot of confidence. And I don't know if that was like the the chemical confidence or whatever, but I thought I knew everything.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  I thought that

• 24:35Speaker 02

  as every child does as they grow up, that their parents know nothing. What do they know? What it's like to be a kid in today's society. Now I look back and I'm like, my mom knew everything. Everything. She was right about everything and my dad was too. And I always said, I was like, I'm never gonna drink. I'm never gonna do that. And I don't need that. I'm I'm fine without it. And I ended up exactly the same with my dad.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  I do believe it to be a genetic disorder.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  And

• 25:13Speaker 02

  it's

• 25:16Speaker 02

  you know, it's something I even worry about with my son. I never want him to go through what I went through. Ever. I want him to be confident enough in himself that he never even feels that kind of pain that he thinks he has to numb.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  And that's so profound that when you reflect back, you don't know if that was natural confidence or that was just the

• 25:40Speaker 02

  Survival.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  Survival or as you said, liquid confidence. So you're not sure, but you knew that you presented confidently.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  But I also, I got to a point where I was like, I don't give a fuck. People were so mean that I was just like

• 25:59Speaker 03

  So

• 25:59Speaker 02

  I might as well fulfill what they're saying about me then.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  How so? And this is before the show. So who were the people?

• 26:06Speaker 02

  I mean, at school, they were so mean and because I had an English accent and I was a little chubby. And like I said, I didn't look like the L A girl.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  So you were fourteen at this time, fourteen, fifteen years old. And so what was your

• 26:26Speaker 03

  perception of your body?

• 26:29Speaker 02

  I didn't think there was anything wrong with it.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  Right, because it's interesting. And that's where I'm going. That's what I'm trying to understand is because you were confident in who you were.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  And I didn't think there was anything wrong with it until other people started pointing it out.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Okay, and everyone is

• 26:45Speaker 02

  To this day, you will never read an article about me. And there has never been an article written about me where they don't make some note of my physical appearance.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and this, so this is what I'm trying to understand though, because I

• 27:01Speaker 02

  And my whole thing is like, why do you give a shit? It's not like I'm trying to be like a sexy model. I've never been that girl. It's not like I'm known for like my body. Like it, I don't understand why they put so much pretense on it. Because I wasn't trying to be that.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Right, but but but also too is, and I have some photos of you at fifteen. You are, on average, you are, from a weight perspective.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Normal.

• 27:31Speaker 03

  You were absolutely normal.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  It was L A.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  Okay, okay, fair, fair.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  And it was Hollywood and it was the celebrity world and

• 27:42Speaker 02

  I just

• 27:45Speaker 02

  I just took so much abuse for it because I wouldn't conform.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  What was, you know, what did your your parents have to say about that at that time?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  My mom and dad always said to me, if you want to lose the weight, you can. If you don't, leave yourself alone. There's nothing wrong with you.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  And my mom wouldn't go in on people.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  So when you and your mother went to the Brits

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  to collect the, was it Lifetime Achievement Award for your father?

• 28:21Speaker 03

  That post, I went to that post. And here is a moment that is celebrating the lifetime achievement of Ozzy Osbourne. Proud daughter, proud mother. And if you look at the comments.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  They're disgusting.

• 28:39Speaker 03

  They're hideous and disgusting and predominantly about how you look in this. From that moment through to now, I've seen that I feel like you've been more even outspoken about calling people out.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  I couldn't take it anymore.

• 28:58Speaker 03

  Can you can you take us to when you saw that?

• 29:02Speaker 02

  First of all, I didn't know what I looked like. I couldn't see it. I was so unwell, I couldn't see it. And then I saw those pictures and I was like, oh my god. Like, this is not good.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  This is not good. And

• 29:23Speaker 02

  I just couldn't believe, like, if I had cancer, people would be like, you look great. Bravo. How brave of you.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  But no, what I was suffering from was mental health issues and grief. And I got literally assassinated

• 29:44Speaker 02

  over something that should have been about my dad and his legacy. And people couldn't see past that. All they wanted to do was rip me to shreds. And it also made me so sad, the state of this world.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  That people could be so cruel.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  So cruel.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  How does that make them feel good?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  What is wrong with them? They must be very unwell people.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  But it also in itself, I was like

• 30:18Speaker 02

  it did allow me to see what they saw.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  And

• 30:26Speaker 02

  it did make, it was a wake up call.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  But there was so much more going on in my life that I can't speak about. That contributed and

• 30:46Speaker 02

  If people only fucking knew.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  I, I, I mean, it's so hard for me to understand how someone would go on to a social media post or perhaps send you a direct message.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Oh, you don't, I mean, if you would like to, you can have a strong, hard look at some of the shit I get. You wouldn't believe how mean people are.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, that, that's the part that I, I can't calculate.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  It's weird, right?

• 31:18Speaker 03

  And then especially, because we know what you're going through.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And then if you go and you look at their profile, it'll be like lover of Jesus and mother of whatever. And it will be them like half naked on a pole as their profile picture. And you're like, this totally contradicts everything that you're saying.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Or like, people who used to call me fat. I'm like, you're fatter than I am. What do you want about? Like,

• 31:51Speaker 02

  what made you feel like you needed to do that?

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  It's just, it just shows you how many sick people there are in this world.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  And how heartless people can be.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  When you see, because you, you've been having to deal with this the entirety of your adulthood. The entirety of your adulthood.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  I have a lot thicker skin than I ever gave myself credit for. I will say that.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  But does it still hurt?

• 32:18Speaker 02

  You know, it hurts me for humanity that this is the world that we live in now, where people feel that it's okay to be that cruel.

• 32:29Speaker 02

  It's not about me. They do it to so many other people, too.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  It is weird, I will say, that I do end up getting a lot of it. But

• 32:42Speaker 02

  I think it's because people think that they own a piece of me because they've grown up with me.

• 32:47Speaker 03

  Hmm. Okay.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  And

• 32:53Speaker 02

  they've made up their minds as to who I am like 25 years ago. And they're still running with that narrative. And it's just...

• 33:08Speaker 02

  And you know what really pissed me off? He's like, I don't really recall anyone standing up for me.

• 33:16Speaker 03

  That's interesting.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  I don't. I see, I saw maybe a couple of posts.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  But it wasn't like, and I'll be honest with you, even to my own family. Because you have to remember, they're all dealing with their own grief. They're not focusing on what's happening with me.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  It's just, you know, I had to walk through that alone.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  And it was really fucking hard.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  But I've come out the other side of it and I am stronger as a result of it, so.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, you definitely, to me, you present today like someone who has fire in her belly.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Oh, I have a fire up my ass like you wouldn't fucking believe.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Well, up your ass, too.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  You would not believe. There is so much that I plan on doing. There is so much that I have to offer. There is so much work yet to be done. And it hasn't even begun. And every single one of them can suck shit. Because I get to be me. And I'm sorry that your life is miserable, but you can change that, too, if you want to. Don't take it out on me.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  I love it. I love it.

• 34:37Speaker 03

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• 35:22Speaker 03

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• 35:47Speaker 03

  So then, we have to talk about how The Osbournes come about as a show. Because what I find...

• 35:55Speaker 04

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• 36:53Speaker 03

  So interesting is, is, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, is that was The Osbournes the first?

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:00Speaker 03

  Okay, so was the first reality TV family series?

• 37:05Speaker 02

  We did MTV Cribs. And it was their highest rated MTV Cribs ever.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Okay. And for, you know, for the people who don't know about MTV Cribs, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I watch it all the time. But Kelly, there must be, there must be some young bucks out there that don't know about Cribs.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  So MTV Cribs was a show where they took you through celebrities' homes and they showed you, and everybody would walk through their bedroom and say, this is where the magic happens. And like, everyone would show off their cars and their extravagant lifestyles. And a lot of the time, it was rented houses and people pretending that they lived there when they really didn't. But it was our real home. And my, they asked if me and my brother wanted to do it with my dad. And there were so many requests into MTV for more of it.

• 37:54Speaker 03

  So more of seeing you?

• 37:56Speaker 02

  Me and my brother and my dad. And I don't even remember if my mom was actually in MTV Cribs very much at all.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  And I remember, I thought I was so cool because I was on MTV. And I was wearing this denim jacket that was Fendi that had rhinestones on it. And I thought I was so cool.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  I mean, that is cool.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  And I was like, you know? And I remember calling up my best friend and being like, in England, I was like, guess what I did today? And like, then they asked us to go on T R L and, which was Total Request Live. And they played the top 10 music videos of the day because it was on every day at that time.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  And you'd have to call in and request it to make sure you got your favorite music video up. And it, it was like a great show. And there'd be thousands of people outside in New York City in Times Square, like watching up at the window to see it be filmed live and...

• 38:55Speaker 03

  That was me.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  I was, I was down there watching.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  Carson Daly was hosting.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Carson Daly, and there was like the famous photo booth where everyone got their pitch taken. And it just, it was like,

• 39:11Speaker 02

  it was so cool. It was so fun. And then from there, they asked me and my brother to do MTV Spring Break.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Which was, for people who don't know and were too young,

• 39:25Speaker 02

  was one of their biggest things of the year, which was they'd either go to Mexico or Florida, I think. And all these different bands would come and perform and they'd have live shows and film it.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  And what were you and Jack doing?

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Just presenting a few bits.

• 39:39Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  And we, we, we couldn't fucking believe we got invited because it meant that you were like, cool, if you got invited. And

• 39:53Speaker 02

  it just, and then it will kind of stem from there. And then it was like a natural progression about how would you feel about doing a show about your guys' life? And it was more my mom's idea to stretch it out because they were trying to figure out more ways in which they could work with us. And we were like, well, let's just turn the cameras on and see what happens.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  And we had cameras in our house 24 hours a day. There were two crews, 12-hour shifts each.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Cameras set up in every room except for bathrooms and bedrooms.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  It just happened how it happened.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Now...

• 40:31Speaker 02

  And it took a long time to film a season.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and, well, so how long did it take to film the first season?

• 40:37Speaker 02

  I want to say like six months.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  It was now...

• 40:42Speaker 03

  That's a lot of time, yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  That, it's like two weeks.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  Two weeks, yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  And they're produced moments, they call them.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  Yes, produced.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Produced moments where they tell you the story. They don't tell you what to say, but they tell you what they want to get out of it. And then you go and film it and that's it.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  So it's pretty much like setups and acting.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  Whereas at that point, it's truly follow-on docu-series.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  It's what happened, how it happened, when it happened.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  It's not structured?

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  It cost too much money to do it the way we did it.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. I mean, that's a massive production. And also, it's never been done before. So you have no idea what the result is going to be. But if I can ask, because your sister is living at the house at that time.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, she did in the guest house.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  And she chose, from what I understand, is she chose not to participate.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  So what was that conversation like? When you sit down and she says, you know what? I'm opting out of this.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  I can't tell the whole truth because I don't want to speak on behalf of her.

• 41:48Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Um, and I do, you know, we're not close. But I do respect her enough to, you know, keep her anonymity, if you understand. I believe there's a reason for everything.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  It just wasn't meant to be for her.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Okay, fair. That's fair. So then during that time, you and Jack.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  But it was always me and Jack.

• 42:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  My, if I'm honest, my older sister didn't really ever acknowledge me and my brother.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Um, she was just in her own world, doing her own thing.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. So.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  And I do, to a certain extent, if I'm honest, feel as though she was embarrassed of us.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Of you and Jack or the whole family?

• 42:39Speaker 02

  The whole family.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Because of how you were?

• 42:44Speaker 03

  For what reason? How you were living or?

• 42:48Speaker 02

  I'll never really truly understand. It just felt that way.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  I,

• 42:58Speaker 02

  you know, like she, we're very different. Everything,

• 43:04Speaker 02

  I am, she's not. Everything she is, I'm not. It's like you couldn't be more polar opposite. We're like oil and water.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. If, if I can ask and stop me at any point, but the reason why I do want to proceed down this road a little bit is because, you know, I have two boys. Uh, so one is younger than the other. And I can see how the younger one

• 43:27Speaker 03

  wants the admiration from the older one. He won't admit it.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  I will tell you, it's one of the hardest things of my life.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  That I never, I never got a big sister. And I had to learn how to do certain things that a big sister should have taught you on my own.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  And I do have a resentment there.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  I'll have that forever.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  That's fair. Is, is, is there hope?

• 43:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  For a reconciliation? No?

• 43:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  Okay. All right, fair.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  I just, I respect her, I accept her, but

• 44:12Speaker 02

  we're different and that's okay.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  It is. You know, with, with family, I think it's interesting because I think there's an assumption that because you share blood, everything should be shared. But I think the beauty in life is that you have an opportunity to also select who your family is.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Oh God, how do I say this without sounding like a bitch? If you're not gonna accept me for who I am and constantly be trying to change me and

• 44:48Speaker 02

  say horrible things

• 44:51Speaker 02

  about me

• 44:54Speaker 02

  and truly seem to thrive when I'm not doing well,

• 45:00Speaker 02

  I don't want you in my life.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 45:07Speaker 03

  Can I go back then?

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Because the decision to participate in this project, you still have to say, yes, you want to.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  I was so excited.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  So there's no question?

• 45:20Speaker 02

  No, I was like, yeah, count me in.

• 45:22Speaker 03

  Okay, but you, but now, there had never been anything like that before, so what did you think you were signing up to?

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Had no idea. Honestly, had no idea. I was just like, I'm gonna be on MTV, this is cool as fuck.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  Okay, and, and Jack was the same?

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And me and my brother, we grew up very close. Very, very, very, very close. And

• 45:49Speaker 02

  we did everything together. We shared a room together, we shared clothes, like, everything, like, it was always me and Jack. And when we were little, people used to think we were twins, but you know, because we looked a lot alike and just, we did everything together.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. All right, all right. So that's the decision. So you were in, Jack was in.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Uh, your father was in. Now your mother, because she might not have been at some of the other MTV, uh, so, spring break, etc. But it sounds like she was behind the scenes, she was, she was orchestrating it.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  No, she, she was doing all that stuff in the behind the scenes, but then when she knew she had to be a part of it because it's the family situation, she was totally on board with it.

• 46:32Speaker 03

  Then she was on board too?

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and the rule was, as long as we had the rights to confirm the edits and there was nothing in there that we didn't want in there,

• 46:43Speaker 02

  film whatever you want.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  Wow, okay, okay. So now, can I show you something?

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Mm, that's good.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  This is, this is a good one. This is a good one. Well, it's always interesting to see how everyone reflects. This is a photo. So, take a look at this.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Do you remember that photo?

• 47:00Speaker 02

  I remember being, this photo being taken.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  It's weird how, it's only now I look at it, and if you look at my eyes, I just look so sad.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  When was that photo taken?

• 47:12Speaker 02

  This was taken after we'd filmed the first season. And I think it was for, like, People Magazine or, uh, TV Guide.

• 47:26Speaker 03

  TV, come on, Rap TV Guide, that's good.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and like,

• 47:34Speaker 02

  like, I, I didn't have the concept of like, when someone took a picture of me, it would be so widely used. And it would be the gift that keeps on giving that I'd have to relook at for the rest of my life. And it was just like, you can clearly see, like, look at my brother's face, look at me, like, we had no idea what we were doing.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, when I look at this photo, I see two kids that look like they have no clue how they got to where they are.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 48:03Speaker 03

  Were you lost?

• 48:08Speaker 02

  I was not lost, I was just along for the ride.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Because I never knew where it could take me. And I really enjoyed meeting the people that I met and the places that I got to go and the, the opportunities it allowed me and the world I've been able to see as a result of it. I will never take that for granted.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. Now, the Osbournes, from what I understand, certain episodes, or actually, you probably know the numbers much better.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Do you know that I've never watched all of them?

• 48:38Speaker 03

  You never, have you watched any of them?

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Some of them. We started to do this series called Basement Tapes. And we watched, I think, the first two, one and a half seasons. And I was like, oh my God.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  I just kept looking at my parents, being like, I'm so sorry.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Really?

• 48:57Speaker 02

  I'm so sorry.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Like, I,

• 49:02Speaker 02

  I was a fucking brat. I get why people had the opinion of me that they did.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  But people couldn't see past that to the wounded child inside, if you know what I mean.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  Yes, I do. I do.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  And it, you know, I'm in AA, but I'm also in ACA, which is Adult Children of Alcoholics. And it digs deeper into,

• 49:31Speaker 02

  um, it's a 12-set program as well, but it digs deeper into the inner child.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  And the things that happen led you to the belief system you have, which led you to your actions and your consequences.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  And

• 49:52Speaker 02

  it starts to make me realize, oh, that's why I felt that way, or that's why I did that, or that's how I ended up there. And you start to heal the inner child. And it's a lot, I will tell you, it's a lot harder than AA.

• 50:12Speaker 03

  I believe it.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  And, and you have to, and you start to learn to love your parents in a whole new way.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, because prior to this mammoth show, right? Which I saw some of the stats, eight million people watching. I mean, you think about eight million, who?

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Nobody watched that on MTV.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Gets eight million people watching? You know, you think of some of the largest shows today, like Love Island, for example. It's not even that big. You know, so this was a mammoth show, mammoth show. And then on top of it, from what I understand is, so you had an addiction prior to the show?

• 50:52Speaker 02

  And it just escalated. It just went up and up and up and up and up.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  So the day, the first day that the show comes out, what is that, what is that day like for you? Because your world must have changed.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  I woke up.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  And I wanted to go to Tower Records that I can't even remember. Because the show came out on a Wednesday and usually new music came out on a Tuesday.

• 51:18Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  And I wanted to go get a new CD. And I can't remember, I can't even remember which one it was, but.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  I was like, someone's following me.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  And I got really scared and I called my manny, Big Dave, who still works with us. And I was like, Dave, someone's following me. I don't understand what's going on. I had no idea that it was paparazzi. I'm like, why would they want to take a picture of me? Like, I didn't get it. And I then very quickly realized that every single thing in my life was under a microscope. Everything.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  And how did you make that realization?

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Because I couldn't go anywhere without security anymore. I couldn't do. Anything without just people just, it was like. A mini form of Beatles mania, if I, if I can put it that way. Like, we'd go to a hotel and there'd be like hundreds of people waiting outside the hotel and. They'd have to put velvet ropes out to keep people away so that the other people staying in the hotel could come in and out and. You know, it. I had fans. Like, I had people that, like, like, I get messages to this day that.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  That if I knew back then.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  What I was doing to help like a subculture of women.

• 52:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  I would, I would have felt so much better about myself.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  Like, I get these letters all the time, like, when I was a kid, like, you were the only one like me and you gave me so much. Hope and that I could just be myself and I loved the way that you dress and that you were so unapologetic and you stated what you felt and. And, well, on one hand, I was being labeled a sport brat for it. The other hand was, I was helping other people and women feel confident to be themselves.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  Right. But you didn't feel that way at the time.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  No, I didn't know.

• 53:31Speaker 03

  You didn't know.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Mm-mm.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  You didn't know. Wa- was it, but it must have been at points, many points. A dream. Like, it must have been fun.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  It, no, I will tell you, the first two, the first two seasons was a dream.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  It was amazing. Like, we got invited to everything. We got to do whatever we wanted. All, I mean, there wasn't a. Thing that was going on in the world that we were not invited to. And people wanted us everywhere. And as I said, like, it was great. We got to meet incredible people and. Travel the world and we had fun. But then the drug addiction got too much for me and my mom got cancer.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  And the thought of losing my mom at that age and how sick she was and. Having to do, go through all of that on camera and. It was, it was just, it was awful. Like. It changed the whole trajectory of my life to a certain extent because I got the role. As playing Lindsay Lohan's best friend in Freaky Friday.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  I went through the fittings, everything, was about to show up the first day of rehearsals. And I quit. Because I thought if my mom was gonna die, I don't want to be sat here on a movie set all day. I want to be with my mom.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  Goodness, how old were you at that time?

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Seventeen?

• 55:04Speaker 03

  You're seventeen, yeah, yeah, you're seventeen, yeah. And that was, that would have, I mean.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  That would have changed the direct, trajectory of my career and my life and where I went and what I did and what I would have been today. And, but I do believe I made the right choice.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. I could see that one value that's remained consistent for you is family.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  Without question.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:29Speaker 03

  Uh, that's something that you.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  I've never been ashamed of my family, my fam- we are not conventional. But we are honest. We. You know, I am like my father in the sense where I wear my heart on my sleeve. I, I can't pretend.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  I am who I am. You love me or you hate me. What my father did besides his music was create. A place for the misfits, the unwanted, the unique, the different, the.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  People who felt like they didn't belong.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  A place to belong. It wasn't just about the music. It was, it was a whole culture. I mean, Ozfest was insane.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  It, it. It was the most fun summer camp you could ever imagine being on and it just. It was heavy metal at its finest and it was.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Allowed people to.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Be themselves and express themselves the way they want to express themselves. Because back then, being goth in any way was considered like, you're a devil worshiper.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  And it just, it, it wasn't as accepted, but he brought all of these people together. And after he passed, I received so many letters from people. Who told me, you know, your dad made me believe that I could do it too. And made me believe that I was good enough and that there was a place for me. And. That's how I want to continue his legacy by creating spaces like that.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  Yes. And I could see that you got that earnestly from your father because when I reflect back. And think about you as a teenager, at least, you know, from look, from the outside looking in is. I always thought you were highly confident in your individuality.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:41Speaker 03

  Right?

• 57:42Speaker 02

  If when it came to what beauty was, I was not confident.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  You were not?

• 57:47Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 57:47Speaker 03

  But your view of yourself was what?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  That I didn't deserve it and that I was ugly.

• 57:57Speaker 03

  Okay. Can, can we unpack both of those?

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  Let's start with, I didn't deserve it.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  I've always wa- watched my parents work so hard. And all I did was sit there and let someone film me, just being myself. I didn't consider it work. It wasn't until I started my musical career and my own TV products and. Having bosses and HR and all that kind of stuff that I started to realize, you know, like, the difference in work and. I've always, I, I am quite a workaholic. I don't feel like I have enough purpose if I don't have a reason to get up out of bed every day and someone to answer to.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  And, you know, since having my baby.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Losing my father and my mind.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  I'm finally back in a place where I'm like, okay. I'm, I'm ready to be the me that I truly am. Like.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  I do not think I am ugly. I do not think I am fat. I do not think I am worthless. I know my value. I think it's now my time to shine.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  And not have to toe the family line, if you know what I'm saying.

• 59:09Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes. So, because you felt like you've had to tote that the entirety of your life.

• 59:15Speaker 02

  The entirety of my life has always been families first. And there's a pecking order and I, I don't want that anymore.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  I just.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Just want to do what I want to do.

• 59:30Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. And, and so I can understand now when you say as a teenager, you didn't feel deserving.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:38Speaker 03

  Of it. And then you also mentioned you didn't feel beautiful.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  No.

• 59:42Speaker 03

  So, so help me with that because. You are by the public stand, I, well, correct me if I'm wrong here, is that there's a lot of demand for you. There's a lot of desirability for you at that time.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  People are absolutely obsessed with my physical appearance. In a way that I don't understand and I don't understand why me.

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  Because as I said to you before, it's not like I put myself out there as like, I'm a sexy girl. Or I'm a supermodel or, you know, like, I've always just.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Been me.

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  So, why are you trying to make me out to not be good enough to be that? When I've never tried to be that.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  It doesn't, it nev- it never made sense to me.

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  So, as a teenager, you're then, what, reading articles about?

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  I couldn't read them.

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  You couldn't read them, but articles were coming out.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, and they were horrible.

• 1:00:40Speaker 03

  And mostly, then, about how you looked.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. They still are.

• 1:00:48Speaker 03

  What do you thi- why do you think there is an obsession specifically with your weight?

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  I have no idea. I wish I knew the answer to that question because I don't get it.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  It's like I'm not allowed to be skinny, or I'm not allowed to be pretty, or I'm not allowed to... Like, the accusations of plastic surgery and the accusations of, you know, weight loss jabs and everything like that. Like, I am full transparency about what I have and have not done. I don't have anything to hide. And I also don't think that there's no shame in the game. Like, if you wanna look a certain way, go ahead.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  Go be you.

• 1:01:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Why is there such, like, animosity towards the fat jab? Or getting a nose job? Or getting your boobs enlarged or smaller, or whatever it is? If it makes you feel more comfortable and you feel more beautiful, why should anyone else have a problem with it?

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  Right. And, and without question with the guests that I speak with is disproportionately, this judgment is happening at women disproportionately.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Oh, it's just always, you will never read an article in the Daily Ma- Mail that says, let's say it's Hugh Grant, Hugh Grant did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If it was me, it'd be Kelly Osbourne, 41.

• 1:02:09Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes, you're right. Age will be in there.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  The age will be in there, and then they'll say something about my body.

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  But they don't do that to men.

• 1:02:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I'm trying to understand why you were pinpointed. Even in the research, I was thinking, what's the reason?

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  I still don't understand it.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  I still don't understand it. Well, maybe because like when you look at other people, like rock stars' daughters, like, you've got like Liv Tylo, who's like gorgeous. And

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  like, all these different musicians' daughters who've ended up being models and... I wasn't.

• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  Hmm, this is interesting, Kelly. That's interesting.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  That wasn't me.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  And I think that that was a bit baffling for them.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  But I didn't wanna be that.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  No. Do you think there's part, and this is just me thinking out loud now, is, because this is really interesting, what you're saying to me. I, I could see this. And I think there also could be this. And then what makes her think that she's all that?

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:03:20Speaker 03

  You know, because?

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Because the truth is, I fucking was.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  I was.

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  And some.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  I just wasn't the same as everyone else.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, and that's why so many people adored you, like my wife. You know what I mean? Truly.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  This really, you don't know what this means to me, this letter.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  I will, I will, I will tell her.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  And I'm definitely coming over for lunch.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  Okay. All right, and you'll be Peter Gabriel, too.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  Just a heads up, this next part includes discussion of suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we've included resources in the show notes. Please take care while watching. Now, you mentioned also something that we have to talk about, is you said the addiction, then. It then became even more. Specifically, right around the time when your mother got the cancer diagnosis. So, with the addiction, was your mother, was your father, was your brother, were they aware?

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  No. I mean, maybe, but we were all going through our own personal hell.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  What about, because you're filming at this time as well?

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  I mean, there, there was a couple of crew members that got fired because they refused to film my father in the state he was in.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  They, you know, it was, it was rough. And I was looking, looking around my house, thinking, my dad is so bad right now, and my mom is so sick right now. If my mom dies, I'm gonna fucking kill myself because I can't live like this. Like, this is too much.

• 1:04:57Speaker 03

  Did you genuinely consider taking your life?

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  It was a thought. I, I suffer from SI, which is suicidal ideations. And I had no idea until I was in my 30s that that was not normal.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  And it's,

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  it was something where, like, I truly believed that I wasn't good enough, that whenever anything bad happened, the first thought was, kill yourself. And I'm like,

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  it wasn't until I got properly diagnosed with what that was, and given the right literature and therapy and explanation and everything that came along with being diagnosed with that and being put on the right medication. Like, I never have a thought like that now. Ever.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  But it was like a daily thing for me my entire life. I thought everyone thought that.

• 1:05:53Speaker 03

  Wow, okay.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  I didn't know that that wasn't normal.

• 1:05:56Speaker 03

  Okay, so, so, so you have this ideation going on, compounded with the addiction.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  And depression, and anxiety, and ADHD, and dyslexia. I mean, I've got all of it, OCD. I mean, I also have PTSD and it's just, you know, I, I've been through a lot for, for one person.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  Absolutely, for, for, for many people, for many people. And, and I'm, I'm now seeing a house in turmoil. You know, what was the reason why you all decided to end the series? Because from what I understand is, it was super successful.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  It was still, it was like, we, because the thing is, there's nowhere to go but down. And we wanted to end on a high, and we wanted to have our life back. And I wanted to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  And

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  that took me a minute.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  And it's only just now, in my 40s, that I feel like I'm free to do that.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  And

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  it's,

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  you know, because there are some people that still see me as that 16-year-old.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  And I'm like, wait, I'm like,

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  they, they really do not believe that I am the age that I am. And half of me is like, huh huh, that's great. I'll take it. And the other half is like, but come on, like, people grow up.

• 1:07:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  People change.

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  Life happens.

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. And That project, I mean, that, that show was so larger than life. I think that's what throws everyone, everyone, they hear your name, they go back to that time. But even in doing the research for you coming in, what I had no idea is, from that moment to now, you have been working.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  I've never not worked.

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  You, I mean, the credits are ju- I mean, just the shows, the projects, it is dozens upon dozens upon dozens upon dozens of, of projects. So, when you look across where you're trying to figure your way, right? What were you discovering about yourself as you would take on new projects? Like, I remember watching A Fashion Police. I thought, I thought you were fabulous on that. Yeah, I thought you were fabulous.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  So, it was the best working years of my life was with Joan Rivers and getting to be her little apprentice and sitting, having the honor of sitting next to her and working with her every day and talking to her every day and learning from her every day.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  I mean, it was incredible. She was such a vital part of

• 1:08:47Speaker 02

  who helped me become who I am today.

• 1:08:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  And God, do I miss her. The world became a non-funny place when she left.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  I can imagine with Joan Rivers, I can imagine that she must have commanded her, the space that she was in.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  But she, people didn't realize how generous and how respectful and how grateful and how well she treated everybody. And

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  she'd always say before, she'd always hold my hand, and she'd say, honeybee,

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  look how lucky we are.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  And then we'd start the show.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  Really? That's how it would start?

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. All these people are here because we get to do this. And she never took anything for granted.

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  It's a great lesson. It's a great lesson. So, as you're having these experiences with these incredible people, what are you discovering about yourself? Because I-

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  That I'm good enough on my own.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  That I don't need, I don't need to just be Ozzy Osbourne's daughter.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  I'm my own person. I, I,

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  with them, I'm great. Without them, I'm great. I can do it on my own.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  And I've never relied upon them for that. I just went out and did my own thing.

• 1:10:13Speaker 03

  That's how I felt. I felt like you're, you could see confidence, right? Your assurance in your skill set was just growing and growing and growing.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  And now it's got to a point where I'm like, I am so sick of everyone else controlling the narrative of me. I get to say who I am, you don't.

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  And if I fuck up, I'll own it.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  And we move on.

• 1:10:42Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes. So, who is Kelly Osbourne today?

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  Losing my father, it has taught me

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  that there is such an honor in grief.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  Because-

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  I loved somebody, I was capable, I am capable of loving someone so much

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  that I

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  I lost my mind. I was, I was a shell of myself. I couldn't, I couldn't speak. I couldn't eat. I couldn't, I couldn't do anything. I was just

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  empty.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  Broken in every way a human being could possibly be broken. And completely unable to even take care of myself. I was at ground zero. I started drinking again. I lost my mind. I couldn't handle it.

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  But I can honestly say today, I'm eight months sober. I have the most incredible people around me. I closed my circle. Because I lost a lot of friends. Because people don't like sadness. And they expected me to be over it. And I will never be over it.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  I will never, ever be over it.

• 1:12:21Speaker 03

  Are you comfortable with us talking in detail about the relationship with you and your father? Because, you know, what I find, I tell you, I think you will appreciate this. Is when I was coming in today, right? See, the whole house was excited about you, Kelly. It wasn't only my wife. I asked my son, who's 12 years old, Liam, I said, have you ever heard of Ozzy Osbourne? And you know what he said? He said, yeah, I have. He's that guy. He's that rocker guy and a dad.

• 1:13:02Speaker 03

  So at 12, my son says, okay, I know of this guy. He's a rocker and he's a dad.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Speaker 03

  That was profound to me.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:15Speaker 03

  Very, it hit me deep because that's actually how I always saw your father. As this incredible musician, but always a dad.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  He was.

• 1:13:31Speaker 03

  And I want to show you this.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  And I want you to tell me in this, here it is. What is the first thought that comes to mind when you see this?

• 1:13:47Speaker 03

  Give that to you.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  I miss him.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  I miss his smell. And his five o'clock shadow on my cheek.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  And how safe I felt whenever he gave me a cuddle.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  And how I knew that if he was in, nothing bad would happen.

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  And he'd always make me laugh.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  I remember where this picture was taken, but I was never

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  an adult to my dad. I was always you know, he always treated me like I was still his baby.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  But like I told him everything.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  We were very, very, very, very close. We had a different relationship than he had with his other children.

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  And

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  sometimes that made my life very difficult.

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  But

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  he always held my back, always.

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Like always.

• 1:15:23Speaker 03

  It definitely, from the outside looking in, it appeared as if there was a unique relationship that you and your father had.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  It was I can, the only way that I can explain it to you is I'm the female version of him in personality wise. I've got all his good things. I have all his bad things too. But

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  we were just so similar. He taught me what unconditional love was. I consider myself so lucky because I have so many friends that just don't have that with their dads.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  I know he, like the love he had with my mother, there was nothing like that. They set a standard that I don't think I will ever be able to reach.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? Like that, that love is magic. That love is what movies are made of. Like it's it's insane. Their story, their what they've been through together, what they

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  you know, how much like they just, they didn't do anything without each other. You know, like he couldn't survive without her. She couldn't survive without him.

• 1:16:43Speaker 03

  But here she is without him. And I have to check in on, how is she doing? How is she? How is, how is she getting by?

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  She's getting a little bit stronger every day.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  I will say night times are the worst for her. Because that was their favorite time of day. They'd just talk about everything they did that day and catch up and watch whatever they wanted on telly and after spending 50 years of your life side by side with someone to now there being an empty space, I can't even imagine how painful that is. But she's getting through. She's a lot stronger than anyone can ever give her credit for.

• 1:17:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  And there are so many people that love her and are there for her. And me being one of them.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  Whatever, like my dream for my mom. I'm like, just sell everything.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  Get your dream house.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Buy whatever you want to buy yourself. Go wherever you want to go in this world and have a good time. Stop working. What are you working for?

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  It's your time now. Have fun.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  Go and do whatever you want to do. What makes you happy? Be around the people that make you laugh. Stop worrying about us. We are our own responsibility now.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  We're all in our 40s. It is not up to you to save us from anything. Go live your life.

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  You deserve it. Like she deserves it more than anybody I know.

• 1:18:41Speaker 02

  And I really, I wish that for her. I hope that she gets there.

• 1:18:47Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. But you know, as a mom,

• 1:18:52Speaker 03

  you'll always be thinking about your children.

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  That's true. That she can be selfish too.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. Well, let's hope that she is. Send her my love.

• 1:19:03Speaker 02

  I will do. She loves you.

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  I really adore your mom. Something that I said off camera, but I just want to say on is that many years ago, I was on The Talk and your mother was one of the hosts of The Talk. And she truly helped me. And she was kind to me when she didn't have to be.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  She mama bared you.

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  She mama bared me and she was able to allow me to become more confident in myself in the moment. And I'll never forget that. What I find really interesting about someone who's super successful, so your father at the end of the day is one of the most famous musicians that's ever walked this earth, you know? Incredibly talented, incredibly hard worker, right? I've read about his work regime.

• 1:19:56Speaker 03

  And you often hear the stories about men who are uberly successful, who

• 1:20:03Speaker 03

  in essence prioritize their work over their

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  It was the opposite of that.

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  Exactly. That, it didn't, it never felt that way. Yeah, it always felt that way.

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  That's why we were always there. That's why I grew up on tour. That's why

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  it, we were a unit.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  What do you think allowed him to want to live his life that way?

• 1:20:31Speaker 02

  I think my mom had a lot to do with it.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  You know, my mom was his manager as well, so she had to be there too. And she didn't want us to be raised by nannies. They wanted to raise us, so along we went.

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  And it was just

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  as I say, a different time.

• 1:20:58Speaker 02

  But

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  it was amazing. And like just

• 1:21:10Speaker 02

  I'm grateful for every second, every moment, every hardship, you know, even when it was bad.

• 1:21:19Speaker 02

  I'm grateful for it because he was my dad.

• 1:21:23Speaker 03

  Yes. What did you learn through the bad times? Because you've mentioned, you know, even here in this conversation, the challenge that your father had with addiction. And you think that you might have even gotten that gene from

• 1:21:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:37Speaker 03

  from him. So I'm sure that you've seen him in some terrible positions. What did you learn about addiction and pain in the tough times as you observed and you lived those with him?

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  So he was like me, he wasn't.

• 1:22:01Speaker 02

  He ended up becoming the wild man as a result of it. But it was to numb the pain.

• 1:22:10Speaker 02

  The insecurity, the constant thought of not being good enough. There were times where there would be like fifty thousand people waiting for him to go on stage. And he'd be like, did anyone show up? And we'd be like, are you fucking nuts? There's fifty thousand people out there. They're all here for you.

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  The concept of his own fame never, ever, ever truly hit him.

• 1:22:37Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:22:40Speaker 02

  His final show, up until the day he died, he said, I just can't believe people like me that much. I didn't know people liked me that much.

• 1:22:52Speaker 02

  And we'd be like,

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  what do you get about it?

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  Like, you, you are you. And he's like, but he, he never left Aston. He was always that working class hero from Birmingham.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  He never thought he was better than anyone else.

• 1:23:19Speaker 03

  That's fascinating. It's fascinating. When you saw him get the, um, the star, the Walk of Fame, that's a moment where a lot of people feel like, okay, I've made it.

• 1:23:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  How did he respond to it?

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  He was so excited.

• 1:23:37Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  He was so happy about that. He couldn't believe it and it was so cool. And it was back when it really meant something. You know what I mean? Right now, I mean, I feel like you could just pay for one. I could probably fucking get one. But it's, it was back when it really meant something still.

• 1:23:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  And it was right before, I wanna say his, just around the time of his fiftieth birthday.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  And it was just like the icing on the cake for him, like that he is on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. And like that he had really made it. And it was like that when he met the Queen as well.

• 1:24:15Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  He couldn't believe he met the Queen.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  And it was, there's a really funny story because Kermit the Frog was like trying to figure out whose shoulder he wanted to be on. And you will see that he ended up on my dad's shoulder. And it's Kermit the Frog, my dad and the Queen. And it's just the funniest picture. And it, you look at his face, I think, I remember him saying, it's nice to meet you, your royal majesticness. Because he got nervous and didn't know what to say.

• 1:24:47Speaker 03

  That's so good. That's so good. Oh, my gosh.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, you know, one thing that I could see even with you telling these stories is in those moments, just, you know, no cameras, nothing. It seems like there was a lot of laughter.

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  Oh, he's the funniest man you've ever met in your life.

• 1:25:05Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Because you think he doesn't hear anything, you think he doesn't see anything, but he saw everything. And let me tell you this. My dad knew he was going out. He knew he went out exactly the way he wanted to.

• 1:25:22Speaker 02

  And he was prepping me along the way. He was.

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  And everything he told me would happen has happened.

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  Everything he warned me of, every person he told me to stay away from, everything.

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  And I was just like,

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  wow, like you really didn't miss a beat, did you?

• 1:25:48Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:25:50Speaker 02

  And

• 1:25:53Speaker 02

  the more

• 1:25:58Speaker 02

  one but most meaningful thing he ever said to me is that

• 1:26:08Speaker 02

  he's, he sat me down and this was about three days before he died. He says, Tots, and I said, yes, Dada.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  He said, I need you to know something.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  I said, what?

• 1:26:24Speaker 02

  He goes,

• 1:26:27Speaker 02

  no matter what happens in this life,

• 1:26:31Speaker 02

  you can live the rest of your life knowing that there was one man on this planet that truly loved you. That truly loved you for every single thing that you are.

• 1:26:45Speaker 02

  And that my man is me.

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  And I started to cry and I said, please don't talk like this, please don't talk like this. Cause he said, you know, I'm not gonna be here forever.

• 1:27:02Speaker 02

  And I know you struggle with people.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  And actually believing that you are loved.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  But I loved you more than anyone.

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  And

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  three days later, he was gone.

• 1:27:26Speaker 03

  You know, I, uh, I, I have these chills that, that keep coming over my body. Because as a parent,

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  I can't imagine what it's like to have to sit and you're a parent. And I can't imagine

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  what that must feel like to know you have to prepare your child

• 1:27:53Speaker 03

  for that, for that moment.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  I have to preface the story with

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  my mom

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  allowed him

• 1:28:08Speaker 02

  to die the happiest I've ever seen him.

• 1:28:12Speaker 02

  All he wanted before he left this planet was one last show, one more time. To be able to let his fans know how grateful he was for the life that they allowed him to have. And how much he loved them.

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  And to say goodbye.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  And

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  my mom worked hard herself to make that happen.

• 1:28:48Speaker 02

  And it was one of the most incredible moments in music history. It'll never be anything like that again. I mean, in my eyes, in the world of rock and roll, it outlives even Woodstock.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Because

• 1:29:06Speaker 02

  it was all the people that got to be who they are because of him coming to pay tribute to him. And he got to say goodbye. And he got to say thank you. And that's all he wanted to do. And then he let go.

• 1:29:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure. Shortly thereafter. So that was, that was the one.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  It was two weeks after.

• 1:29:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:36Speaker 02

  They told him, if you do this show, you'll die.

• 1:29:38Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:41Speaker 03

  And he chose to do it anyway.

• 1:29:42Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Because it meant more to him than anything.

• 1:29:48Speaker 02

  And he was suffering so much.

• 1:29:53Speaker 02

  His

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  day to day life.

• 1:30:01Speaker 02

  It was insufferable, like it, it wasn't.

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  Nobody should have to live like that.

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  To be in that much pain and be unable to walk and

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  like your mind is all there.

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  But your body just doesn't work.

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  So this is the Parkinson's.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Parkinson's and the, the botched surgery they did on his neck.

• 1:30:27Speaker 03

  Okay, and the surgery came about, um.

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  Because he fell out of bed and broke his neck.

• 1:30:34Speaker 03

  Okay, okay, yeah. And so, um, you, you mentioned that your, your mother had to make all this happen. Uh, and you, your, your mother is really someone who I'd love to spend some time.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  She's incredible.

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  Okay. She, she's, she's like a superhero. You know, when I look outside in, once again, is, uh, I'm a big fan of your mother. Big.

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  She's great.

• 1:30:59Speaker 03

  Big, big fan of, of your mother.

• 1:31:01Speaker 02

  Just don't piss her off.

• 1:31:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I've heard your mother is, does some wild things.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:09Speaker 03

  Uh, to people that she's upset about. All right, so is this, all right, we have to go there then.

• 1:31:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:31:13Speaker 03

  Is this rumor or fact?

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  Go on.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  If you piss off your mom to a certain degree, she will send you a Tiffany box with a special gift inside.

• 1:31:26Speaker 02

  This was in like the eighties and nineties. Um, and when the party came out, we knew that somebody had pissed mum off and she'd make us sit there until we poked.

• 1:31:37Speaker 03

  Oh, it was, it was yours?

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:39Speaker 03

  Are you serious?

• 1:31:40Speaker 02

  Yes. And then she would put it in a Tiffany box, have it wrapped up and deliver it, message it as if it was from Tiffany's to whoever it would be. And it would be a shit in a Tiffany box.

• 1:31:52Speaker 03

  That is.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:31:54Speaker 03

  That's wild. That's pretty, that it was yours too, that's.

• 1:31:58Speaker 02

  It was at the Minotaur, yeah.

• 1:32:02Speaker 03

  That's wild. That's wild. But, but to me though, what I love about that is there's a like mama bear fierceness that says, don't mess with mine. You know? But when I think back to the Osbournes though, I just remember you and your mom just yelling at each other. Was, was that a true depiction of the relationship early on?

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  I mean, early on, yeah, because I was like defiant and thought I knew everything. I mean, I had my baby and my baby was not on me, my chest doing skin, skin for more than maybe three seconds. And I just looked over at my mom and I mouthed the words, I'm sorry.

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Because it was like the speed of light, all of these thoughts just came to my head and I was just like, I put my mom through hell. Now I get it. I get it now.

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  And she was like, what? She was looking at me like I'm nuts. Because I'm crying and looking at her and not really the words, I'm sorry. But it was just like, everything made sense in that instant.

• 1:33:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Isn't it something, you've already mentioned this too, is that as we get older, we realize our parents were always right.

• 1:33:19Speaker 02

  Oh, I know, it's so annoying, but it's true. It's so annoying, but it's true.

• 1:33:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like they were right. And we should have just listened. We should have just listened. So this whole time, you're telling your mom, no, you're wrong, right?

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  I don't do that anymore.

• 1:33:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, but then, but also too is with your mother. So your mother was your father's manager. And is that how their relationship started as well?

• 1:33:46Speaker 02

  Pretty much, yeah.

• 1:33:47Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:33:48Speaker 02

  So no, but so my mother's father was my dad's original manager. And when he got fired from Black Sabbath, my mom had to go and take him the paperwork and found him in a hotel. And he was a mess.

• 1:34:05Speaker 02

  But she saw the talent in him. And she couldn't leave him the way he was.

• 1:34:15Speaker 02

  And so she said to him, I'll take you on and let's see what we can do.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  And she helped create his solo career.

• 1:34:28Speaker 03

  Look at that.

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  And then when they found out that my mother's father was stealing from my dad,

• 1:34:39Speaker 02

  they had to leave. They left with two suitcases and nothing and had to start all over again.

• 1:34:48Speaker 03

  Look at that. No money.

• 1:34:52Speaker 02

  And they did it.

• 1:34:54Speaker 03

  They built it from the ground up? Okay. Did they ever tell you at what point they fell in love?

• 1:35:03Speaker 02

  My mom's best friend did. She was there the first time they kissed. It was at the Roxy on Sunset. And to this day, she's still my mom's best friend, Hanes Bell. And she was a waitress there and then she became a big Hollywood agent. And originally, my mom tried to hook my dad up with Bell. And then Bell was like, nah, I think you two have got something going on. And it just, it just happened.

• 1:35:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I think it's so beautiful when something just happens. It's meant to be against all forces. Especially knowing that they had no money, right? They had to build from the ground up.

• 1:35:44Speaker 02

  And my grandfather was a scary man, let me tell you.

• 1:35:48Speaker 02

  Like a very, very scary man. I didn't even know he existed until I was 13.

• 1:35:52Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:35:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Didn't have no idea.

• 1:35:56Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. So therefore, and I mean, not to go too deep on your, but your grandfather was a...

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  Don Arden. The original music mogul of the United Kingdom, but like mob style. Hanging people off of the roof of buildings until they give him what he wants, kind of thing.

• 1:36:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:36:23Speaker 02

  Friends with the Cray Twins, all of that situation crowd.

• 1:36:27Speaker 03

  Okay. I see. I see, all right. And I mean, now, now I'm actually seeing your father in a different light. Because he had to succeed with that opposition.

• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  With the opposition of Black Sabbath going out on their own with a new singer. With the opposition of

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  going against the only thing he ever knew.

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  Starting fresh. And

• 1:37:07Speaker 02

  finding it within himself to believe that he could do it. And I think that that was because of my mom.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, look at that. That gives me a whole new perspective on their love. Your father.

• 1:37:22Speaker 02

  I mean, you'll never see it, like, you know, when people talk about twin flames and soulmates and true love and...

• 1:37:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:37:28Speaker 02

  That's what they had.

• 1:37:29Speaker 03

  Yes. Your mother managed anyone prior to that?

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:33Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:37:34Speaker 02

  She'd been managing ELO and

• 1:37:39Speaker 02

  the bad band called The Choir Boys and Smashing Pumpkins and...

• 1:37:47Speaker 02

  Like, she managed quite a few people. I mean, I'm probably listing just like a few of them, but yeah.

• 1:37:56Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. So then with your mother and father together, as a business partnership, as a romantic partnership, they became formidable, right? But then through the years, I saw that your mother really became a brand within herself.

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:38:14Speaker 03

  And so how did the family balance that? Because your mother became quite famous.

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  In her own right.

• 1:38:24Speaker 03

  In her own right.

• 1:38:25Speaker 02

  I'll be really honest with you, at first, I don't think my dad liked it very much.

• 1:38:29Speaker 02

  Because he was always the, you know,

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  the number one. But then I think he learned to love how much people loved my mom as much as he did.

• 1:38:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  And

• 1:38:47Speaker 02

  that they recognized her greatness too.

• 1:38:52Speaker 02

  And he begun to become very proud of her.

• 1:38:58Speaker 02

  Because, you know, I don't think my mom ever saw herself in the spotlight.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden she was.

• 1:39:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's so interesting.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  But she was always the behind the scenes woman that built the stage that he performed on. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:39:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  And then they shared it.

• 1:39:26Speaker 03

  So as that's happening, you and Jack, right, or obviously, your stardom is rising. Now, Jack, we haven't spent, I think, given him his due. Is, Jack is someone who, it's interesting. I resonated, I think, probably being boys, I resonate with Jack, right? And to me, there was something super lovable, you know, like uberly lovable about Jack. But I understand Jack has gone through his challenges as well. Also having multiple sclerosis.

• 1:40:04Speaker 03

  And so how have you, as his sister, someone who many people thought was his twin at a certain point? You spent so much of your life together. How have you been able to balance the relationship, knowing, you know, the challenges that he's gone through? In particular, health challenges that he's gone through?

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  Jack is, will never let you know if he's going through a health challenge. You, like, I've learned to see the signs. Like, I'll see one of his eyes going like this and I'm like, oh, he's stressed, something's going on.

• 1:40:39Speaker 02

  But he leads a very, very healthy life.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  He is incredibly dedicated to his children.

• 1:40:50Speaker 02

  Me living here now and choosing to separate myself a little and kind of rediscover myself. It's not like it's caused a wedge between us, but I would say that

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  the family's a little bit upset that I have decided to

• 1:41:17Speaker 02

  go home

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  and figure out me for a while.

• 1:41:26Speaker 02

  And I get it. Because like, I don't want to miss out on anything that my nieces are doing or... But I also am a mother and I have my own responsibilities and my own life to live. And I'm taking this time to be a bit selfish.

• 1:41:47Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. So this is the era of selfishness.

• 1:41:53Speaker 02

  But appropriate selfishness.

• 1:41:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. You know, how do you, one area that we have to talk about, and I'm wondering, how do you, how have you managed this? Is, is motherhood.

• 1:42:05Speaker 02

  I don't, I'm telling you, I deserve an Oscar. Because I, if I'm ever crying and my son sees me, I explain to him that I miss Papa.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  And he knows how much Papa meant to me. And Papa meant a lot to him. He walks out there every day to say hello to him.

• 1:42:26Speaker 03

  Does he?

• 1:42:28Speaker 02

  And leave a flower or a feather or something he's found in the garden. And he talks to him and he'll sing to him. And he'll tell him stories. And

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  it's beautiful.

• 1:42:45Speaker 02

  But...

• 1:42:49Speaker 02

  To go through this.

• 1:42:52Speaker 02

  And realize that I have to go through this, but I have to put him first.

• 1:42:57Speaker 03

  Your son.

• 1:42:58Speaker 02

  My son first.

• 1:43:01Speaker 02

  You know, you get really good at acting. You get really good at quick cries in the bathroom with the door closed and then break the tears away and take a deep breath and go back into play mode. Because he's too young to feel those feelings.

• 1:43:17Speaker 03

  What what has your your son taught you, you know, about life? You know, because I was, I think that the greatest, it is so interesting because you look at where, you know, depending on where you look, fewer people are having children. Right?

• 1:43:35Speaker 02

  I just want more.

• 1:43:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's exactly, it's like.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  It's the most, it's the best thing in the fucking world. And everyone I say to my friends that haven't had kids yet, I'm like, you're missing out.

• 1:43:45Speaker 03

  It's all.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  You don't understand purpose. You don't understand patience. You don't understand love. Until you've had a kid.

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  Do you have a reason? It gave me such purpose. It gave me such an, I mean, I'm getting goosebumps talking about it. Like,

• 1:44:06Speaker 02

  I always wanted to be a mom.

• 1:44:07Speaker 03

  Okay, you've always wanted to be. Okay.

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  But I never realized how fulfilling being a mother would be.

• 1:44:16Speaker 02

  I never realized I was even

• 1:44:21Speaker 02

  that I could feel like that.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  I I think also, we were talking about this when you walked in is he looks an awful lot like your dad.

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  I look a lot like my dad, and I think that he he looks a lot like my dad. He's got my dad's smile, and it's one of my greatest joys that I get to see my dad's smile every day.

• 1:44:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  With his naughty little munchkin face.

• 1:44:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's good. It's good. How do you then believe that you're going to manage these conversations around addiction?

• 1:44:53Speaker 02

  I have to be very open with my child from an age where I believe it is appropriate to start talking about.

• 1:45:00Speaker 03

  Okay. Okay.

• 1:45:02Speaker 02

  Because

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  first of all, I believe that everyone should be in some form of 12 step program, whether it's addiction or not. It just gives you a guideline to be a better person.

• 1:45:13Speaker 03

  So so with this,

• 1:45:16Speaker 03

  this is a topic that you you will broach at the appropriate time with him.

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  We're not there yet, thank God. You know?

• 1:45:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:23Speaker 02

  But I am fully prepared for when he is, because I have to be honest with him. My father was always honest with me. Always.

• 1:45:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's it seems like you grew up with a very high level of transparency. And I can see the benefit. And and actually, that's something that my wife and I, what we try to do with our boys is lead with transparency.

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  You have to.

• 1:45:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:48Speaker 02

  Because otherwise, they're going to find out from someone else who's not going to tell them the way that you think that they should hear it. And it's just

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  you don't don't get to control the narrative, if you know what I mean.

• 1:46:00Speaker 03

  Exactly. Exactly. And I think as parents who have been there, done it.

• 1:46:06Speaker 03

  We can advise.

• 1:46:08Speaker 02

  And look, I won't deny, I had some great times on drugs, but they only led to more pain, sorrow and misery.

• 1:46:18Speaker 02

  I I don't, I don't, you know, I have a reason. I have a son.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  And he means more to me than anything in the world. And there's nothing that is going to stop me from being the best mother I can be to him.

• 1:46:31Speaker 03

  There you go. So like a mother in love?

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  I have one more photo. You're gonna like this.

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:46:37Speaker 03

  One more photo. Hold on, you can't look, can't look. Okay, ready? This is a, this is a surprise.

• 1:46:45Speaker 03

  I want you to.

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  We have to, we have to give her her space.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  Miss Dolly.

• 1:46:55Speaker 03

  I didn't realize the relationship that you had with Dolly Parton.

• 1:47:01Speaker 03

  Would you be open to talking about it?

• 1:47:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, first of all, huge fan my whole entire life. I truly believe that she paved the way for women to be whoever they want to be.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  She wore what she wanted and she broke down doors while wearing high heels. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:47:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  She, her, her philanthropy. She gave back more than

• 1:47:34Speaker 02

  she

• 1:47:38Speaker 02

  like received, if you know what I mean. Like what she did for literacy, what she's done for the black community in America, what she's done for families that can't afford the cost of living, like, like, it just goes on and on and on and on and on. The amount of people's lives she's changed because she wanted to. Like, I can't think of very many people who were born into this world and left at a better place than they found it.

• 1:48:09Speaker 02

  But Dolly Parton, she'll did.

• 1:48:12Speaker 02

  And I had the honor of working with her a couple of times. We

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  we have the same management and it's

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  it was just she was honestly one of the kind, like, you know, when you say, don't meet your idols?

• 1:48:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:48:33Speaker 02

  I say that unless it was Ozzy Osbourne or Dolly Parton.

• 1:48:39Speaker 02

  Because they were who they said they were. I mean, she looked after everyone. And if you ever got the opportunity to see the inner workings of how it all went down in Nashville and how every member of her family had a job, whether it be part of her security, design team, whatever it was, like, she made sure everybody was taken care of.

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  It, I I don't think I've ever met a more generous human being in my life.

• 1:49:08Speaker 02

  And it was true what she said about being a billionaire.

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  Which which is what?

• 1:49:13Speaker 02

  I'm trying to remember exactly. It was something like, if you, if you're a billionaire, then you're doing it wrong.

• 1:49:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:49:21Speaker 02

  Because nobody needs that much money.

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  I mean, I knew her work schedule, like, she'd wake up at four in the morning. She'd spend two hours writing every day.

• 1:49:31Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:49:32Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:32Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:49:35Speaker 02

  Do her morning, like, little routine and workout and phone calls. And then do what work she had planned for that day.

• 1:49:45Speaker 02

  And

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  family always came first.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  And she just, she just was like, it was like being in the presence of an angel if you were around her.

• 1:49:58Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes. She seemed very angelic.

• 1:50:03Speaker 02

  Oh, she was amazing.

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  You know, I know that she was really short, wasn't she?

• 1:50:07Speaker 02

  She was a little petite thing.

• 1:50:09Speaker 03

  Little petite thing? Is it true? I think she said this once, but I don't know if this was just misinterpreted, that she would go to sleep with her makeup on?

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:18Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:50:20Speaker 02

  She didn't have makeup artist. She did her own makeup.

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  Did she?

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, but we do, we did share the same hairdresser.

• 1:50:25Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. All right, fair enough. And it's it's interesting because I don't know much about, say, her music. Some of her acting, right? I mean, nine to five, like.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, but all her acting stuff is great. I'm like, masterpieces.

• 1:50:46Speaker 03

  Right. But so so those pieces I don't know a lot about. But you know what? When it comes to philanthropy, that's what I know her for.

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  It's insane, right?

• 1:50:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I know her for. Yeah.

• 1:50:55Speaker 02

  The fact that you can get one for your book for your child is, I think it's like a week or a month or, I can't remember, but it's been millions of books.

• 1:51:07Speaker 02

  She's improved the literacy of children throughout America in a way that nobody has ever been capable of doing.

• 1:51:16Speaker 03

  Dolly Parton. May she rest in peace. Yeah. I'll hold on to that one. Thank you.

• 1:51:23Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:51:24Speaker 03

  For sure that. So now, Kelly, we've been talking for quite some time. We've covered many, many topics.

• 1:51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  It's now the new chapter. Is it? No, this feels like a new book. The new book, the new book of Kelly Osbourne.

• 1:51:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:40Speaker 03

  Right? I cannot wait to see.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:51:43Speaker 03

  What what it holds for you.

• 1:51:44Speaker 02

  It's gonna be a lot of fun.

• 1:51:48Speaker 02

  I'm doing a three part series documentary on grief and mental health.

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:51:53Speaker 02

  I'm gonna do a new reality show.

• 1:51:55Speaker 03

  Are you? U S, U K?

• 1:51:58Speaker 02

  U K.

• 1:51:59Speaker 03

  U K? Of course, of course.

• 1:52:02Speaker 02

  But it will be worldwide.

• 1:52:05Speaker 02

  I am finally gonna start my fashion brand again.

• 1:52:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  I want to go into beauty products like and makeup, but

• 1:52:16Speaker 02

  I want it to be makeup for everyone, because I don't believe that it's just women that need makeup. Men deserve to feel pretty, too.

• 1:52:22Speaker 03

  There you go. Hit us. We need it.

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? You need a bit of under eye concealer when you need it. You know what I'm saying? You need to deshine when you want to.

• 1:52:30Speaker 03

  Can I, can I say? My favorite product right now is, I'm not gonna say the brand, because they they're not sending me

• 1:52:40Speaker 03

  but it is a de-matifying, like, it's a moisturizer, it de-matifies.

• 1:52:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:47Speaker 03

  So it's like, we need this.

• 1:52:49Speaker 02

  It's not fair. Why is it such, why is such a faux pas that men take care of themselves?

• 1:52:53Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying. Come on. Hit me.

• 1:52:56Speaker 02

  It's like.

• 1:52:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:52:57Speaker 02

  And my whole thing is, I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever create something that is not for everyone.

• 1:53:06Speaker 02

  It has to be cost effective in a way that is obtainable for everyone. I am not snooty. I'm not gonna go and do a couture brand. I'm not going to have the price point be unobtainable.

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  It's for everyone.

• 1:53:25Speaker 03

  Perfect time then for me to ask you the final question.

• 1:53:27Speaker 02

  Go on.

• 1:53:27Speaker 03

  Everyone gets it.

• 1:53:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:53:29Speaker 03

  I cannot wait to hear your answer.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  No, I'm scared.

• 1:53:32Speaker 03

  No, this is a good one. This is a really good one. So you've had some incredible conversations throughout your life. When you think about the most memorable,

• 1:53:43Speaker 03

  who was that conversation with? And what did you learn?

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  My dad.

• 1:53:54Speaker 06

  And I learned unconditional love.

• 1:53:59Speaker 06

  That's all I can say.

• 1:54:01Speaker 03

  That's fair.

• 1:54:02Speaker 06

  And honesty.

• 1:54:05Speaker 06

  Because he never lied to me.

• 1:54:08Speaker 06

  And I will keep his secrets till the day I die.

• 1:54:12Speaker 06

  Because he told me things no one else in the family knows.

• 1:54:17Speaker 06

  And I'll never tell.

• 1:54:20Speaker 06

  Because that was between me and him.

• 1:54:25Speaker 03

  You know, I have to say this is for someone, myself, who I've watched, and I've watched you through the years, but only through the landscape of TV and narratives.

• 1:54:40Speaker 06

  And mistakes.

• 1:54:41Speaker 03

  And, I mean, I've read the headlines. I've read the good and the bad and the indifferent.

• 1:54:48Speaker 06

  And the ugly.

• 1:54:49Speaker 03

  And the ugly, right? I've read them all. And I will say that I am, I feel honored to have spent this time with you. Truly.

• 1:55:01Speaker 06

  Really?

• 1:55:02Speaker 03

  Feel honored to have. You, you know, you said, don't meet your idols, right? You're someone who I've looked up to for a variety of reasons. And I'm walking away

• 1:55:18Speaker 03

  truly honored, truly feeling blessed to have spent this time with you, truly.

• 1:55:25Speaker 03

  Truly.

• 1:55:26Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 1:55:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, truly.

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  And the

• 1:55:35Speaker 03

  and Kelly, what stands out to me most is

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  you know what unconditional love feels like. You know what it means. I see how you extend it to people in your life. And I want to encourage you to continue to do that.

• 1:55:54Speaker 06

  I don't think I'll ever stop.

• 1:55:56Speaker 03

  And one thing that I definitely want you to know is there are an endless number of people who feel like I do, who feel like my wife does, who have adored you from the outside. And no matter what the comments were, no matter what the crazy headline was, no matter what the ugly commentary was, still loved you unconditionally. So always remember that.

• 1:56:27Speaker 06

  You asshole.

• 1:56:31Speaker 03

  And of course, you called me an asshole.

• 1:56:36Speaker 06

  I didn't think you were gonna make me cry.

• 1:56:40Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 1:56:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Truly, truly, truly, true.

• 1:56:46Speaker 06

  I didn't know if I'd be able to get through this interview. I didn't know. But I just put my faith in you because I think that what you do is so great and how you let people speak for themselves. And it was such an honor to spend this time with you.

• 1:57:02Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 1:57:03Speaker 03

  Thank you, thank you.

• 1:57:06Speaker 03

  That concludes.

• 1:57:09Speaker 03

  Come on, come on, come on. Yeah, thank you so much.

• 1:57:15Speaker 03

  I'll tell you where I truly resonated with Kelly is when she said what the passing of a loved one will do to you is it will change you. And there will be a version of you that you leave with that person that you'll never get again. And even though what she's saying may sound harsh to anyone who's not lost a loved one, it's fact, and I've been there. And I want us as a society to have more conversation, more honest conversation about death and about grief. Because when we do,

• 1:57:58Speaker 03

  we're able to actually reconcile and manage it better than living in a land of myth. Many people might forget that she was a little girl who, to her own words, was not lost, but she was just along for the ride

• 1:58:17Speaker 03

  and was hurt and was an addict. And that was before fame. So think about then what fame, extreme fame, does to you. And a mentor used to always tell me that all of us, what we share in common is that we're either all heading to a storm, don't know it, or coming out of a storm. And the most important thing is if you're coming out of the storm, to realize it. Because that way, you can count your blessing. Kelly Osbourne is someone who is coming out of a storm. She realizes it, and she's counting her blessing. And it was just an honor to be able to share this moment with her. You became incredibly famous for pretending to be famous on Big Brother.

• 1:59:02Speaker 03

  But today, you are under threat.

• 1:59:05Speaker 06

  Yes, this has been a big deal for me to come here today.

• 1:59:07Speaker 03

  Can you take us to that storm?

• 1:59:09Speaker 06

  It was Celebrity Big Brother, but I was the only non-celebrity and had to pretend to be a celebrity as well.

• 1:59:16Speaker 07

  Big Brother has called Chantel to the dining room.

• 1:59:19Speaker 03

  So now you meet someone named Preston.

• 1:59:22Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:59:22Speaker 03

  Did you truly fall in love in the Big Brother house?

• 1:59:25Speaker 06

  We should never have got married.

• 1:59:27Speaker 03

  There was a moment where he walks out. Can you take me back to this moment?

• 1:59:31Speaker 06

  So we're on this crazy ride. Like, I walked into Big Brother with eighty pence in my bank account. And then next thing, I have one million pounds and like shaking Prince Charles' hand.

• 1:59:40Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:59:41Speaker 06

  But I was just so lonely. I don't know, I'm getting upset. God, I hate admitting this because not a lot of people know this, but.

• 1:59:47Speaker 03

  How's that make you feel?

• 1:59:48Speaker 06

  I'm not the girl that was in Big Brother. That version of me is gone, you know?

• 1:59:54Speaker 06

  For me, it was the lies and the manipulation. It destroyed me in every single way possible.

• 2:00:02Speaker 03

  So why is it that you wanted to talk today? And why now?

• 2:00:06Speaker 06

  For many years, I stayed silent about what I was going through. And I don't want to hide anymore.

• 2:00:17Speaker 00

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