The Conversations That Could Save Lives: We’re Talking Suicide Prevention

TW: This episode discusses suicide and mental health. Nadiya Hussain and Tyler West open up about their experiences with mental health, from childhood trauma, bullying and the pressure of identity to depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts. Nadiya opens up about the bullying she experienced throughout her childhood, how it shaped her relationship with her identity, self-worth and trust, and the impact of growing up in a home where difficult emotions were rarely spoken about. She also reflects on her faith, motherhood and the importance of creating a space where her children can talk openly about their feelings and mental health. Tyler shares the life-changing trauma of witnessing a murder at 14, the PTSD that followed and how keeping it all inside eventually led to a suicide attempt. He reflects on finding his voice, the importance of talking about what we’re going through, and how the things that have broken us can sometimes become our greatest strength. If you’re struggling, you’re not alone. We’ve included support charities below: Samaritans: https://g2ul0.app.link/xghDmmYV4Wb Campaign Against Living Miserably (CALM): https://g2ul0.app.link/npaQKXUV4Wb (00:00) Intro (00:35) Nadiya Opens Up About Being Bullied at School (03:15) How Bullying Impacted Nadiya's Mental Health (04:23) Nadiya Opens Up About Her Suicide Attempt and What Saved Her (07:40) Nadiya's Lifelong Struggle With Anxiety and the Importance of Speaking Out (13:26) Tyler Shares the Traumatic Event He Witnessed as a Child (18:41) How Childhood Trauma Impacted Tyler's Mental Health (21:28) Tyler Opens Up About His Suicide Attempt and What Saved Him Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Welcome to We're Talking. In this episode, I sit down with Nadia Hussain and Tyler West for an incredibly honest conversation about the experiences we carry from childhood, how they can shape us as adults, and what happens when we keep them to ourselves. This episode includes discussions of suicidal thoughts and mental health struggles. Please watch with care.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  What are some of those other incidents that happened while you were a little girl at school? Because there are many that you've talked about.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was really badly bullied at school from the age of four to about 17, 18.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Same two boys. And I never told anyone about that.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  They would flush my head down the toilet.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  They would expose themselves to me. They have tried to sexually assault me whilst I was in the street. They have held me down and smashed my fingers into hinges of doors. They had ripped my hair out. It was every single day from the age of about four or five to about 17 or 18. Every day.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Every day?

• 2:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I even went to an all-girls school, but they were next door in the all-boys school. So they would wait for me to come out. It's almost like they got their fix.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  And the reason why they bullied me was because I had the darkest skin in school. They were very fair, rosy-cheeked Pakistani boys. So they're pretty much, you know, they're same sort of culture as me. But they were bright white with rosy-pink cheeks and dark black hair. And that's what our community celebrated. Fair skin, men. Perfect. Tick, tick. They're perfect. And there I was, short, dark-skinned girl with really big curly hair. And they just, that was the thing.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  And they bullied me every single day, every single day.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  So this is one where there were some incidents that happened for me when I was a child, but sparingly.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  And what's interesting for me is it's not until I've started having these conversations here with We Need to Talk where I've begun to contemplate on how those incidents have shaped who I've become today. But you had, this is severe trauma that's happened for an extended period of time in your adolescence, when you're trying to figure out who you are and what your identity is. So how do you think that impacted how you saw yourself as a little girl?

• 3:48Speaker 02

  I think it's made me really, really protective of my feelings. And it's made me really insular. I think it's made me not trust people, because I don't trust people easily.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  But it's also made me a people-pleaser, I think.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  I just want to make everyone happy, because I don't want negativity and I just want people-pleasing all the time. It's like, as long as everyone's happy, as long as everyone's happy. But that's probably partly to do with the fact that, you know, I grew up in quite a volatile home. You know, my parents always argued. I just wanted everyone to always be happy. We didn't talk about anything bad. It was just always be happy. But it's, yeah, it's also made me really strong. It's also made me a really good mom.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Okay. But as a little girl, how do you think it impacted you?

• 4:49Speaker 02

  It got so bad that one afternoon, I remember my cousin, they were a little bit older than I was, and we were watching a film, clearly not for me, because it was like an 18 or something. And somebody had committed suicide.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  And I was like, oh, so that's it? So if you commit suicide, you're just dead and everything else just stops? So in my head, bearing in mind at this age, I don't know what death is, don't really understand death.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Yes. You were how old at this time?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  10.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  You're 10.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  10. Something twigged in my head at 10 that that's what I should do. And this person had taken loads of pills. I thought, wow, there's pills lying around everywhere. Because we didn't have, there was no such thing as a safe cupboard for pills. It was like paracetamol here and blood pressure meds here. So I took out, back in the day when you could get 100 paracetamols in a pack, I was like, that'll do. Took those off the shelf, went upstairs with a big glass of water. I thought, I'll just take as many of those as I can, because that's what will happen. I'll die, and then I don't have to go to school tomorrow. That is how innocent it was. It was if I die, I don't have to go to school tomorrow.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  And that's what I did. So I was like, okay. And I was 10, I couldn't swallow pills, and they were huge. So I was trying to swallow them, and I probably had a liter of water in me at this point. My bladder was bursting. And I was like, right, I'm just gonna have to crush them and just chew them. And I think I, so I started to chew them and crush them in my mouth. And then I was just like swallowing them. I was like, this is gross. And I just couldn't do it. And I may have got through maybe three or four.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  That's it. Three or four at best.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  And my dad called us all down, because he had something to tell us. So I thought, okay, I'll give this a break. I'll go down. So I went downstairs, and then he told us that my mom was pregnant with a baby. And then I went upstairs and I kind of packed everything away. And I said, okay, well, I'll do it once the baby's born, because I really want to meet the baby.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  And then that baby was born. And I fell so in love with him.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  And he's 30 next month.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Would you say he saved your life?

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. I say that to him all the time.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  That is one of those where I can see you as this little girl. Just saying, I just don't want to be, it wasn't even, I don't want to go to school. It's that I don't want to go through that pain of those nasty boys.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  You know? And in that one moment, your brother, who is not yet here, saved you because of your love.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  For him.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Similar to your grandfather.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Who had this love for these children who were not, right? But you had this love for your brother. You know, it hurts me to hear that you had no one to talk to during that time, you know? We can talk about mental health.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  And anxiety, because this is something that you have battled for quite a long time.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  When did anxiety first creep into your life, do you believe? When was that moment where, I would say, you actually began having panic attacks?

• 8:29Speaker 02

  I started to have panic attacks at seven or eight.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  But I would, yeah, that was quite young. And I used to have them and then make excuses to not be in a public place, whether that's home, school. And then I would have them in bathrooms or toilets at school. Or I got into the habit of having them into pillows. So I would have panic attacks in pillows. So I got really good at hiding them. So maybe six or seven.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Six or seven. And for all of us who may not know what a panic attack is, what is it?

• 9:06Speaker 02

  It manifests itself in lots of different ways, and I think it's different for lots of people. But for me, it's really shallow breathing. You can feel your heart in your head. It races and you can feel your heartbeat. You get really hot, really sweaty. You struggle to breathe and just tears, lots. I cry and I feel really faint, and I feel really faint. So I have to be low down so I don't faint. And I've had panic attacks so bad that I have passed out and then woken up and be like, what's just happened? So that's how they manifest for me. But, and I can feel them coming. You know when they're coming.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  You have little triggers and sometimes you can just, I can feel it in my chest, like it's deep. I can feel it, you can feel it there, like I can feel it there. So I know when it's coming. But as I've gotten older, I've kind of learned to manage them. And another thing that's huge with my mental health and anxiety is all I've wanted from a really young age is to cure it, to say, I need a cure. I need something to fix me. I need something to fix it. And what I've really come to accept is that there's no fix. There's no quick fix. There's no pill. There's no operation. There's nothing that's going to fix you. You have to, the only way you really...

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Can fix it is is to to learn to give yourself the toolbox to to manage it. So I have certain ways that I manage my anxiety. Now, I'm naturally quite a chaotic person, so I kind of here, there and everywhere. Um, and I love routine. And so things like routine, if something goes out of place and I'm like, oh, something's moved back by half an hour. I that would that would send me into overdrive and that could cause me to have a panic attack. And letting go of some of that has really helped me to be like, it's all right. Does not matter. The way I describe it is my monster. So I wrote a kid's book many, many years ago, describing what anxiety feels like for me. And it's called My Monster and Me.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  And it's a monster. And sometimes my monster is so big, it's in my face and I can't do anything. And and and I found ways of making my monster small. And sometimes my monster's really big and and I can't manage. And sometimes it's kind of medium sized and it kind of follows me around and taps me on the shoulder. And sometimes it's teeny tiny and I can just put it in my pocket and I can walk around with it, but it doesn't go away. And that's how I describe anxiety to children.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  And so, and that's been hugely helpful for me, educating people and explaining and

• 11:53Speaker 02

  advocating for those people who don't have voices and saying, look, this is how, you know, they're because part of, a huge part of mental health is conversation and talking to people you trust and love, who will take that information and and and not judge you for for for and and and and there be no judgment in in um, being honest about how you feel. So I kind of, that's how I kind of describe my mental health is my monster. And like, it's very much in my pocket a lot of the time.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  I I I see it. There was one interview where I I I literally saw the, you you say, we need to talk.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, God, yes.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  We need to talk more about this, right? This is the key, is the key is communication.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  And and and what I love is that you you have been really, I think, a at the forefront of what I'll call the mental health wave that has begun. And we're we're nowhere near where we need to be in terms of talking about it. But I but I felt like you were really at the forefront of beginning to really talk about it. And very, I think in a very noble gesture, you were able to disclose about your anxieties and panic attacks.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  One of the best things I learned about having anxiety, apart from the actual needing to talk, the bit where we actually talk is vulnerability. Because the hardest thing is to be, that one of the hardest things when you have a mental health illness is to be vulnerable, because you don't want to be seen as weak. And letting your guard down and saying, I'm going to be vulnerable with you is a huge, it's a huge, it you have to really trust somebody to give somebody that. And all I can do is like, oh, the truth is, I don't know who I'd be without anxiety. And and who I am is someone I'm really proud of. And it's made me a better wife. It's definitely made me a better daughter. It's been made me a better mother. It's gonna make me an excellent grandma.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:52Speaker 03

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• 14:21Speaker 04

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• 14:43Speaker 01

  Are you open to to talk about what you witnessed at fourteen?

• 14:47Speaker 05

  Mm hmm, yeah, yeah. So if we go back to the start, it's um, so again, on my council estate, it's kind of like everyone knows everyone. There's and then there was like some local alcoholics, right? So I finished an after school club and I'm coming back off or I'll get off the bus. And I'm coming up and walking up my road and I'm on the phone to my mom because she don't know how to work the TV. And I'm like, Mom, listen, I'm gonna be back in in a second. And it was about, I wanna say about five to eight, say, for example. And then by the time I've got up to where my house is, there's these uh, these guys that live opposite having an argument, just literally out in the middle of the road. It's just me and them. And then I've like ignored it, gone inside.

• 15:31Speaker 05

  And and I said to my mom, I was like, oh, that those those alcoholics are arguing again. Because that's what happens on a council estate, it's always so, so busy. And then I've gone upstairs, dumped my bag in my room. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna be, I'm just gonna see what what this argument's about. I've pulled the pulled the blinds up, turned the light off and I'm watching now. It was like a two on one argument. One of the two men for a wee really, really weak punch to the man that was on his own. And the man that was on his own, by this point, my mom's coming up the stairs on the phone to the police. By this point, the man's sort of walking towards my house. So now he's not far and he's just fallen. He looked like he was on the phone, but he's just fallen on his face. And then I'm like, oh, Mom, that that like a proper fight.

• 16:15Speaker 05

  And and then all of a sudden, the two men have like walked closer to the man that was laying in the road. And one of the two men had a a twelve inch kitchen knife in his hand. And what he had done was uh, cut and slashed the man's neck open. And the man was holding it and is then fallen onto the ground in the middle of the road. And then the phone call with my mom went on. It must have been about seven, eight minutes with the police. And in that seven, eight minutes, the man did not stop slashing and stabbing and slashing and stabbing. And it went on and on and on. And I was just frozen, I remember it. Then my mom, naturally, as a nurse, she's like, I've got to help.

• 17:00Speaker 05

  And um, my mom's got some towels and she's gone to run out there. And then I've seen the two men coming out of the apartment and I've run down. And I've dragged my mom inside the house. I said, you can't go out there yet, you can't go out there. They've then gone back inside the house and then my mom goes out there. And I follow her out and she's she's got these towels on this man. She's on the phone to the police and she said that that that there's too much blood. There's too much, like, he was wearing an England shirt and it was, it was just, it was a white England shirt. It's just covered in red. And I was just see this man and it was, it was like, it it didn't feel real. It felt like something from a horror movie. And I was just there laying in front of me and I'm I'm literally as close as we are now.

• 17:42Speaker 05

  And um, the police turned up. It was uh, like a big rush, like the police cordoned off the road and then they went in and arrested the two men. There was tear gas, there was like, and there was a lot going on. And then I heard a a voice at the other end of the road and it was my brother. Because by the time my mom got off the phone to the police, she she had phoned my brother. She was so hysterical, hysterical on the phone to my brother, my brother thought it was me. So then my brother's screaming like at the police, let me up, let me up, it's my brother, it's my brother. And then he's he's run up the road and looked at this guy and said, oh, thank God. And then came into the house and said, look, Ty, you're all right. And I was on the sofa having a panic attack.

• 18:23Speaker 05

  I I don't remember from from seeing the man laying on the floor to then being on my sofa.

• 18:31Speaker 05

  It was the hardest moment of my life, without a doubt. And it changed my world forever.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  You know, I at fourteen, you're thinking about what you're processing at fourteen. You're going through this traumatic experience. As you were, as you're watching what's happening, your mother's on the phone, I would imagine that you you you you could not look away.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  No way. And it's because that's, my mom always says it. She goes, oh, Ty, my biggest regret is that I didn't pull you away from that window. I didn't protect your you and everything like that. But I was like, that that's that's that's how I feel about you. You know, not letting you, why, why, I know you're a nurse, but I didn't need to let you go out there and and and be trying to to save this man. But that's just who we are, that's just within us. That's who, that's who we are. And, you know, I I had no idea the knock on effect it would have to this day on my life. You know, from immediately after, I mean, it was, it was really hard. My mom did everything to get us moved from that council estate to just further down the road. And that's what eventually happened.

• 19:33Speaker 05

  She went to the authorities, she went to, you know, um, the council and the police and and said, look, I need you to help because my son won't come out of his bedroom for the best part of two years. I my life was just, I couldn't.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  You couldn't. What what was going on in your world in the the two years from that attack?

• 19:54Speaker 05

  Certain things and certain habits started to kick in, like I, for one, I couldn't open my blind. Every single morning I get out of bed, I had to make my bed because otherwise some, I I was convinced something bad would happen to me. I would, couldn't use a knife and fork. I couldn't, if if anything sort of happened in an action movie and it was like anything to do with a knife, absolutely not. Even to this day, like Molly, my partner Molly, she she hides my eyes. Because she's like, you okay? And she checks in on me and I'm like, it's it's still so raw. Even like, I've just come to the conclusion that I will never, I will never get that image out of my head. I I live with it every single day. I couldn't walk on the same side of the street that it happened. You could see where the blood, like that part of the the street was cleaner than the rest of it because the where the blood had been cleared up.

• 20:38Speaker 05

  There was, there was just a lot and anytime alcohol or, or drugs were involved in, in an environment or a setting I was in, I would immediately put my back up. I'm like, I'm convinced somebody's gonna die here. So I'm convinced there's gonna be a fight. I'm convinced it was like all of this PTSD that I just couldn't get rid of.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:58Speaker 05

  And it turned me into the protector, really. It turned me into the person that I'd be the first to step in and, and separate people because I wouldn't want it to get to that.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  To get to what, what you thought would be the literal demise of, of someone. So within the two years too, is your mother, I would imagine, she's trying, she, she doesn't know what to do with you, right? But she's trying her best. What was the relationship like between your mother and your brother during those two years?

• 21:24Speaker 05

  The thing is, when, when something significant like that happens, it's a ripple effect, right? It's like dropping a stone into, into a pond and it does all little ripple effects outside. And it, it doesn't just affect the man that's getting stabbed and the families and, and the victims or anything like that. It affects the community around it. And there's some things that then I can't unsee that I have to live with every single day, but that man over there, you know, I have so many questions for him, so many questions for the man that did it. Like, do you, do you even remember it? Cause he was, he was high and drunk at the time and it was all to do over a 20 pound bag of cocaine. And that's crazy that, you know, life can just be gone in an instant.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:04Speaker 05

  And that, yeah, it was, my, my relationship with Lou and mum's relationship with Lou during that time was stuff because I didn't wanna talk about anything. I, I, my, my sort of reaction to it all was, no, I can't talk about it. Whereas my mum just wanted to keep talking about every detail and go over it and over it. Um, and that was probably the worst decision I did, I, I ever made, like not talking about it.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Wasn't I talking about it?

• 22:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  And why so?

• 22:33Speaker 05

  Because it built up a lot, a lot, a lot, like it was just like sweeping it under the carpet to the point that then it was unavoidable. And then it all came out at once in so many different ways to the point that, yeah, I, I, I try to kill myself. Like it was tough. It was really tough, man.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  You, you tried to take your life?

• 22:55Speaker 05

  I, I went, there was one night, my mum doesn't even know this. There was one night, I must've been like, and this is, this is years after it now, this is years after the two years. And I've gone, in the middle of the night, I've had this like, this, the thoughts, it comes over me like a cloud, right? And the thoughts come over me and then I'm like, I can't stop thinking about it. And I was, I was there in the middle of the night and I, I got out of bed and I went for a walk. I think I even was like going for a break about the time and stuff like that. It was like a really just wild time and I, I went, um, for a walk down the A217 in Sutton.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 23:32Speaker 05

  And there's a bridge that goes across and it would usually be whenever I tried to get into my fitness bag and go and run, so that would be the run route. And there's this bridge that goes across and I can't remember how long I was out on this bridge for. I can't remember, my phone, my phone was dead, everything. It was, it must've been about half four, five in the morning. And I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I felt so low and I felt like, well, I can't stop thinking about it, I just wanna switch it off for a second and just a second. But then that second, and then I was like overthinking about that thought process and I'm like, well, you're here now and then like, what are you gonna, how are you gonna explain it? How are you gonna bounce back from this? Are you ever gonna come to terms with it? And it's like this overthinking, overthinking effect. And there was a, no cars out at that time and then there was just one car that came

• 24:16Speaker 05

  past, right? And the car beeped. And then I was like, you're not gonna do this. I was like, you can't. I was like, no way can you? I went back home, I got into bed and I woke up and I was like, morning mum. And I just went about my day. And it, it's kind of that, that low moment right there. I always think about the things that have happened in my past from growing up and, and feeling like a real big struggle with abandonment, seeing lives just vanish in front of me.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:51Speaker 05

  I see all of these things and I think about those low moments and they push me to where I go today. Like they, they keep me going further. They're actually my biggest strength and my biggest strength comes about from, from talking about things.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Yes. But at that point, it sounds like you were not, to your point earlier, you were not talking about these things, but you never mentioned that incident to your mother. Did you ever mention that to anyone else?

• 25:16Speaker 05

  I spoke to, I spoke to Molly about it. Um, now so, it's more so now because I'm okay and you don't wanna burden people, you don't wanna worry them. Whereas now, I'm like, yeah, man, I'm, I'm, I'm fighting for it. I'm still, still working it out. I'm still, still, you know, like powering through. Everybody always looks at you and goes, oh yeah, Ty, you're the confident one, you're the, you know, you're doing that or you was on strictly swear down. Yeah, it was great. But I'm still like within side, I've still got that 14 year old self that's like shook, like absolutely shook, but you know, it's each day that goes past, every hour that goes past, it's all things moving forward.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:55Speaker 05

  And moving, and not necessarily moving away from it because it's always there, but another day of dealing with it better, another day of, of, of being better.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Yes. Isn't that something how we always say, and you just said it, that we don't wanna burden our loved ones, so therefore we, we just hold it. But you would want all your loved ones to tell you.

• 26:15Speaker 05

  Yeah. That's insane.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  And if you wanna hear the full, unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment and hit subscribe. See you next week.

• 26:44Speaker 00

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• 27:13Speaker 06

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