Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Tiffany Boyer About this episode Tiffany Boyer went missing in August 2015 after she accused a well-known Albuquerque local called “Machete Bob” of rape. He disappeared shortly before Tiffany did, and investigators were tasked with figuring out the link between the two missing persons cases.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the missing persons cases of Tiffany Boyer and "Machete Bob", whose real name was Robert McGuire. As the police investigation unfolded, a series of interesting people, persons of interest, and a macabre story emerged.
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Transcript 0:38 Speaker 00 Hello everyone and welcome to episode 455 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
0:49 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?
0:50 Speaker 00 I'm doing great.
0:51 Speaker 01 That's awesome.
0:52 Speaker 00 We just had some of our favorite pizza.
0:54 Speaker 01 Yes, we did.
0:55 Speaker 00 And then recorded our weekly Patreon.
0:58 Speaker 01 Which is always fun.
0:59 Speaker 00 Mini-soad, yeah, always fun. And now we're on to, uh, recording TCAT.
1:05 Speaker 01 Which is one of our favorite things to do in the world.
1:08 Speaker 00 It's like the highlight, right? It's like the culmination of all the work that goes before it.
1:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:13 Speaker 00 This is the fun part.
1:14 Speaker 01 It absolutely is.
1:15 Speaker 00 Where we record. But before we get into it, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Cassie Low Hunter.
1:22 Speaker 01 Hey, Cassie.
1:23 Speaker 00 Missy McClellan.
1:24 Speaker 01 What's going on, McClellan?
1:25 Speaker 00 Kimberly Gibson.
1:26 Speaker 01 Oh, Gibson, Gibson, Gibson.
1:29 Speaker 00 Chris Basham.
1:30 Speaker 01 Hey, Basham.
1:31 Speaker 00 Marguerite Puente McGowan.
1:33 Speaker 01 Hey, Marguerite.
1:35 Speaker 00 Danielle Anderson.
1:36 Speaker 01 What's going on, Danielle?
1:37 Speaker 00 Bethany M.
1:38 Speaker 01 Oh, good old Bethany.
1:39 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Kevin Clark.
1:42 Speaker 01 There is the Clark man.
1:43 Speaker 00 And then if we go back into the vault.
1:47 Speaker 00 This week, we selected Katie Dawson.
1:49 Speaker 01 Katie Dawson, there's a name I haven't heard in a while.
1:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, so we appreciate the new support, the continued support. We always do. We also have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime All The Time Unsolved. We're talking about 18 year old Megan Trussell. And this is a very recent case, you know, just this year. She walked out of her college dorm at UC Boulder in early 2025. And then days later, her body was found in a ravine off campus.
2:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:18 Speaker 00 And this is one of those cases, we've had some other ones on Unsolved where, you know, officials are looking at it as a suicide, but the family doesn't agree. And they're actually doing their own investigation.
2:30 Speaker 01 Hey, real quick, if you haven't seen, I'm back on social media.
2:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
2:36 Speaker 01 So if you want to reach out to me, uh, True Crime Gibby on whatever your favorite social media.
2:43 Speaker 00 Platform.
2:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, you're fine.
2:45 Speaker 00 A lot of people are loving it because you did take a break there.
2:47 Speaker 01 I did, yeah.
2:48 Speaker 00 And, um, people are happy you're back.
2:51 Speaker 01 Give me a shout or whatever you call it.
2:54 Speaker 00 A shout, a tweet, an X, I don't know.
2:58 Speaker 01 One of those things.
2:59 Speaker 00 A Facebook.
2:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
3:01 Speaker 00 All right, buddy, you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time?
3:04 Speaker 01 I am.
3:05 Speaker 00 Tiffany Boyer went missing in August 2015 after she accused a well-known Albuquerque local called Machete Bob of rape.
3:15 Speaker 01 Machete Bob.
3:17 Speaker 00 It's a kind of a ominous nickname.
3:21 Speaker 01 Do you really want to be known as Machete Bob around town?
3:24 Speaker 00 Well, it depends on what you're going for. If you're going for, hey, don't mess with me. I'm not the guy that, you know, you want to try, maybe, maybe you do like Machete Bob.
3:35 Speaker 01 You think he gets you to the front of the line, like at the restaurants and things like, hey, I am Machete Bob.
3:41 Speaker 00 I don't know, it could. But then Gibbs, he disappeared shortly before Tiffany did. So investigators were tasked with figuring out the link between the two missing persons cases. So we have a real mystery right here, a couple of mysteries that we're going to unravel. Tiffany Boyer was born on Christmas Day, 1985 to parents Teresa and Blair Boyer.
4:06 Speaker 01 I always feel bad for the people born on like the day before Christmas, Christmas Day, the day after, because really about a week plus or minus, right? Because.
4:17 Speaker 00 You're not going to get as much.
4:19 Speaker 01 Exactly. Your gifts are going to be like a combo gift. Like, hey, honey, here's your birthday slash Christmas present.
4:26 Speaker 00 See, mine, mine's at the end of June, which is very well spaced.
4:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, you don't have to worry about being short at any present.
4:34 Speaker 00 No. At the age of five, one of Tiffany's brothers threw a rock at her, which fractured her skull. She needed brain surgery and experienced long-term health issues because of the accident. Tiffany had her first seizure at age 12. And, you know, that is so horrible. I'm, I'm sure her brother didn't mean for that to happen, right? Kids, brothers and sisters. You have two brothers.
5:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:02 Speaker 00 There's a lot of rough play.
5:03 Speaker 01 We used to throw walnuts at each other and shoot BB guns at each other.
5:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
5:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:09 Speaker 00 So, but nobody expects for some life-altering, you know, accident to occur. Friends and family described Tiffany as someone with a positive outlook on life. She was fearless and liked trying new things. She was also a people pleaser who wanted to help others. Now, I don't know if I would describe you as fearless and, and really into trying a lot of new things, but I would call you a people pleaser.
5:36 Speaker 01 I am a people pleaser.
5:38 Speaker 00 Yeah. You, you don't like a lot of strife or confrontation in your life. You like things to be smooth.
5:45 Speaker 01 I try to avoid it at all, you know, if I can, but if I can't, then I'll.
5:50 Speaker 00 Oh, it's not that you won't step up if it happens.
5:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:53 Speaker 00 You just try to not let it happen.
5:55 Speaker 01 Like to be mellow.
5:57 Speaker 00 At age 22, Tiffany was a devoted single mom to two kids. Her father recalled how she naturally took on the role of being a mother. Tiffany's mother took primary custody of the children when she started having more seizures. Tiffany understood that this was best for everyone's safety and that, that would be very tough. You know, you're a single mom, two kids, you love them, but you're having these seizures, which could be very, very dangerous, not only to you, but to your kids as well.
6:31 Speaker 01 Oh, absolutely.
6:32 Speaker 00 Tiffany had more freedom without full-time custody. She started spending more time at biker bars in the Albuquerque area and befriended then 34 year old Shawna Cannon. Shawna was a person known for doing whatever it took to get what she wanted. Some people called her ruthless. She seemed to like this reputation because it gave her more influence in social settings.
6:57 Speaker 01 I'm sure it did.
6:58 Speaker 00 It kinda like the Machete Bob thing.
7:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:01 Speaker 00 Probably. Shawna was close with then 21 year old Stephanie Step. Stephanie ran away from home at the age of 14 and moved in with a man and a biker gang who introduced her to the party scene. Stephanie also had a reputation. If she received word that one of her friends had been wronged in some way, she offered to take care of it by fighting.
7:23 Speaker 01 You know, somebody like that, like that's their first thing, like, what? What happened? I'm gonna go take care of it right now.
7:31 Speaker 00 No, I don't think I do. And I know you and I are not like that.
7:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:36 Speaker 00 Now, if the fight comes to us, we're fine with that.
7:39 Speaker 01 Oh, sure. Yeah.
7:40 Speaker 00 Well, maybe I'm not as much the older I get, but certainly when I was younger, I didn't shy away from a fight. But no, I don't know that I know anyone who is like hears it and is out the door to defend somebody else or to take care of it. But I think what we're getting here, right, is kind of a picture of, you know, a rough and tumble crowd. Tiffany became part of this friend group. It was clear to everyone that Shawna and Stephanie were the leaders. Tiffany considered Shawna a friend. She wanted to fit in with everyone and get them to like her.
8:20 Speaker 01 Well, isn't that normal for a lot of people?
8:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, especially if you're what people have said about her, you're right, a people pleaser. You know, you want to get along. You want people to like you. You want to fit in. In May 2011, Tiffany started dating Jake Seal, who she met at a party. Around this time, there was tension among the friend group because Shawna and Stephanie and others in the friend group were bothered by the fact that Tiffany enjoyed receiving attention.
8:51 Speaker 01 Well, there's just people out there that do not like others getting the attention that it should be sent their way.
9:00 Speaker 00 Or they believed is reserved for them.
9:03 Speaker 01 Exactly.
9:04 Speaker 00 Now, I don't think there's any doubt, right? Shauna, Stephanie, more of the, kind of the alphas. And I, I think that probably played a role in it as well. In the spring of 2015, Tiffany's friend Jimmy Gillentine got her a job as a live-in caregiver to a woman named Denise Cole, who was disabled. Denise was an older member of the friend group and they lovingly called her mom. Tiffany also thought of Denise as a motherly figure. Soon after moving in with Denise, Tiffany became the target of gossip among the group. A man named Robert McGuire, who went by the nickname Machete Bob, started spreading rumors that Tiffany was stealing from Denise.
9:48 Speaker 01 Those are the type of rumors you really don't want out there.
9:51 Speaker 00 No, not at all. Especially if you already have some individuals who are starting to, I don't want to say not like you, but they're definitely seems as though there was some animosity building already. According to the Albuquerque Journal, Machete Bob got his nickname 20 years earlier. He was involved in a fight with several men. And as recounted by his mother Geraldine McGuire, one of the men came at him with a machete and he put up his hand to protect his head. The machete cut his whole hand open.
10:26 Speaker 01 You know, that had to hurt.
10:27 Speaker 00 I'm sure it hurt a lot. Now, it would have hurt a lot more, I think, if he, if the machete would have cracked his head, his skull open. I was thinking you get the name Machete Bob by wielding a machete.
10:42 Speaker 01 That's what I was thinking.
10:43 Speaker 00 But no, we find out that you get the nickname Machete Bob because you essentially
10:51 Speaker 00 Took a machete to the, the hand.
10:54 Speaker 01 Well, I'm glad K bar Gibby is not because I took K bar to myself, but.
11:01 Speaker 00 Cause that would hurt us. Now, why would you take a K bar to yourself?
11:03 Speaker 01 Myself, but someone took a K bar to me.
11:06 Speaker 00 Oh, good.
11:07 Speaker 01 Versus me having my K bar.
11:09 Speaker 00 That, that, that makes sense.
11:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:11 Speaker 00 After that, McGuire's left hand looked like what was described as a cadaver hand with skin.
11:19 Speaker 01 That's gonna be bizarre looking.
11:21 Speaker 00 And he had limited use of the hand. McGuire kicked Tiffany out for allegedly stealing from Denise and he took over as Denise's caregiver. After that, Tiffany claimed that McGuire raped her and this was a rumor that spread very quickly among the friend group.
11:39 Speaker 01 Yeah. So is it a rumor because it's true or is it a rumor because well, you said I did this, so I'm going to get you back and I'm going to say something like this.
11:49 Speaker 00 Well, my thought is it comes down to who do you believe?
11:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:52 Speaker 00 Do you believe both people that Tiffany stealing from Denise and that, you know, machete Bob also raped Tiffany? Or do you just believe one or the other and believe that the other person is lying because this rumor was spread about them?
12:09 Speaker 01 But you gotta take it seriously.
12:11 Speaker 00 Well, yeah, it's a very serious allegation, but so is the stealing. I think because of who it was against, right? This elderly woman that the whole group considered like a mother figure. On August 20th, 2015, Detective Jerry Copman of the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office received a call from an informant about an alleged crime. The informant told him machete Bob was missing. The Albuquerque Journal reported that Robert McGuire was last seen on August 15th at his home. His belongings were left behind. McGuire wasn't in regular contact with his family. His mother told the journal, she hadn't seen him for eight months before he disappeared.
12:56 Speaker 00 And we talk about that a lot on both TCAD and TCAD Unsolved. You know, when you have an individual who doesn't have regular contact, especially with their family.
13:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:08 Speaker 00 And then all of a sudden they go missing. I think sometimes it's a little harder, uh, you know, to try to. Pin down their timeline and, and different things like that.
13:19 Speaker 01 But I mean, eight months is a pretty long stretch of time not to be in communication with your family.
13:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, obviously, they, they weren't on great terms or something like that. Detective Copman then received a call from a different individual who said Machete Bob's body was in the trunk of a car in Las Lunas. Las Lunas officers went to the McDonald's parking lot where the car was reportedly parked, but they didn't find anything. Okay, some strange calls coming in.
13:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:49 Speaker 00 Right? Somebody calls in and says Machete Bob is missing. Somebody else calls in and says, not only is he missing, but you can find his body in the trunk of this car in the McDonald's parking lot. Now, I don't know how that goes over with your Filet-O-Fish and medium fry and Coke, but.
14:09 Speaker 01 Thinking not well.
14:10 Speaker 00 After you find out that there was potentially a dead body in the trunk. For some, it might be off-putting. For others, it might not affect their appetite at all.
14:20 Speaker 01 I think if it was the McRib, you, you would still keep eating.
14:22 Speaker 00 Oh, I'm still eating the McRib.
14:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:25 Speaker 00 No doubt. But I'm assuming most people have already had their meal by the time they, they hear of this, uh, this report. The police visited the home of Denise Cole, where Maguire had been living. Denise repeated the claim that Maguire's body was found in a trunk in Las Lunas. She also mentioned that Maguire got Tiffany Boyer out of her house because she was stealing. Denise claimed Tiffany stole over $20,000 from her. Denise mentioned the rape allegation and expressed her belief that Tiffany convinced a man to retaliate against Bob.
15:01 Speaker 01 They're not looking good for Tiffany.
15:04 Speaker 00 No, I mean, I think when it comes to what we were talking about earlier, which is, who do you believe? Well, I think it's pretty clear who Denise believed. She believed Machete Bob. Hey, Tiffany was stealing and I also think Tiffany had something to do with, you know, this guy's disappearance. The police tried to locate Tiffany, but they couldn't find her. Detective Jerry Copman then got a tip instructing him to talk to Shauna Cannon if he wanted to solve Machete Bob's disappearance. Shauna told Detective Copman, she believes something happened to McGuire and she and her friends could figure it out. She suspected that McGuire was killed because Tiffany said he raped her. She believed Tiffany
15:49 Speaker 00 had McGuire set up. She claimed she didn't know where Tiffany was, but assumed she was laying low to avoid the police. At the end of August 2015, Tiffany's mother reported her missing. She told the police it was unusual for her daughter to go so long with no contact. The longest Tiffany had ever gone without seeing her kids was a week and it was now past that.
16:14 Speaker 01 We got a few mysteries going on.
16:16 Speaker 00 And we have a lot of mysterious people kind of in the mix. On September 7th, the police were able to locate and speak to Tiffany's boyfriend, Jake Seal. One officer recalled that he seemed reluctant to talk, almost as if he was fighting an internal battle. He wanted to help find Tiffany, but he also seemed worried about his safety.
16:40 Speaker 00 Jake shared that on August 19th, he was at a friend's house when Tiffany showed up unexpectedly in someone else's car. He said he could tell something was wrong based on how she was acting. Jake decided to get in the car so he could attempt to calm the situation. According to a criminal complaint, during this interview, he wouldn't say who was driving or where exactly they were taken. They went to a house and he and Tiffany sat in the living room. The people present made comments and called Tiffany names. They were trying to get information from Tiffany about Machete Bob. They believed her rape allegation led to his disappearance
17:21 Speaker 00 in that he was murdered. Jake said he saw one woman physically assault Tiffany. Two people present put a plastic drop cloth on the floor and lined the windows with cardboard. All right. You want to talk about soiling your jockeys? I mean, that's the moment that it would most likely happen. I mean, that's a scene out of Dexter.
17:42 Speaker 01 That is.
17:43 Speaker 00 When we're putting up drop cloths, we're sealing up the windows so nobody can see in something bad, really bad is about to happen. Then they bound Jake's hands with zip ties and put him and Tiffany, who was bound and gagged in the closet. Eventually someone took Tiffany from the closet. He remained inside and the door was nailed shut. According to the criminal complaint, Jake heard sounds that led him to believe Ms. Boyer was being thrown against the walls and being severely beaten. Jake said in a later interview for the show Mean Girl Murders, "It took me a little over a year to be able to close my eyes and not hear her scream."
18:25 Speaker 01 It's pretty rough.
18:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, very rough. I mean, you're in the closet with, you know, some soiled DVDs and then you're hearing this happening to someone you really care about.
18:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:41 Speaker 00 I can't imagine what that was like. When he was taken out of the closet, Tiffany, the plastic drop cloth and chair she had been sitting in were all gone. Jake was dropped off and threatened to keep quiet. At the time of his interview, he was too afraid to give up any names. So the investigation stalled. And my thought is, Gibbs, he probably had a really good idea of, you know, who these people were and what they were capable of, even before this event happened that we're talking about.
19:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:14 Speaker 00 He'd been around. Some of these people, I think, were, as we described, on the raucous side of things.
19:24 Speaker 01 And you better take them seriously.
19:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, I can understand why, you know, he was a little scared. Detective Jerry Kotman decided to go back to Shawna Cannon. They began talking on the phone regularly. Shawna gradually started to trust him. Throughout various conversations, she gave more details about what happened to Tiffany. In one of their conversations, Shawna admitted we had her taken. She explained that she was the one who drove Tiffany to the house on the night of August 19th. She said Jake wanted to come along. She warned Jake, "If you get in this car, don't interfere with anything."
20:04 Speaker 01 What do you do with that? That's kind of ominous.
20:07 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, if you're Jake, it's very ominous. I'm sure he had no idea what was about to happen, but he couldn't have thought it was going to be good by this point. According to Detective Kotman, Shauna was portraying herself as just wanting to find Machete Bob, and that was the best way to do it. Okay, I get that, but is she not also implicating herself a great deal in whatever happened to Tiffany? I mean, she said, we had her taken.
20:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, she puts herself right in the lineup.
20:41 Speaker 00 She went on to say that she took Tiffany and Jake to Rob Rose's house. Rob Rose was part of their friend group and hosted gatherings at his house. Shauna said in her phone call with Kotman, "I didn't want to go off on her yet because I didn't have anybody else there with me because I knew I wanted her to take me to where Bob was, and I can't drive and control her at the same time if she decided to get crazy." It's strange what she's telling this detective.
21:10 Speaker 01 Clearly, he's done his job, right? She is now trusting him.
21:15 Speaker 00 And she's talking a lot.
21:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, and I'm sure that wasn't easy to do, to gain that type of trust.
21:21 Speaker 00 Shauna made some phone calls, including one to Stephanie Step. She also called William Paul Alexander, aka Uncle Paul. Paul Alexander was 56 years old at the time. He was known as a violent individual. Shauna was asked if Alexander ended up going to the house. Shauna replied, "Not that I know of. He wasn't there when I was there." She admitted that she heard rumors. Alexander had gone to the house, but she left after Stephanie Step arrived. So basically, she's calling people for backup, is what it sounds like.
21:56 Speaker 01 Right.
21:57 Speaker 00 Because she's worried things are going to get out of control, but why would they get out of control? Because she's basically admitting that they kind of kidnapped
22:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:06 Speaker 00 this girl. Kotman said in his interview for the show Mean Girl Murders, "Shauna liked talking to me. What I learned about..." About her is she justifies everything and she truly thought she was a good person. And she ended up telling me certain details that she just should not have told me. I'm not going to solve this case if Shawna doesn't open her mouth. And she opened it quite a bit. And that's kind of the feeling that that I got. I mean, she is really saying some things that are not only detrimental to her and her freedom, but to some other people as well.
22:41 Speaker 01 But she's willing to say all this because one, she trusts him, but also she doesn't really feel like she did anything wrong, right?
22:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I think what he's saying is essentially in her mind, she felt as though the ends justified the means because she was trying to get to the bottom of what happened to Machete Bob.
23:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:02 Speaker 00 And so what, anything goes and it's okay? Whatever I do, as long as I'm, I'm doing it for that purpose.
23:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:11 Speaker 00 On September 10th, police conducted a search of Rob Rose's house. He was arrested because he was a convicted felon and admitted to having a gun on him. Investigators found a closet door with screw holes, which corroborated Jake Seal's story. They also found blood droplets on the walls. Now, during his interview, Rob Rose claimed that his quote, unquote weird roommate, put the holes in the closet door. Police didn't believe anything he said in his interview.
23:43 Speaker 01 Oh, that was my weird roommate. He, he, he did that. He did a lot of weird stuff.
23:47 Speaker 00 Well, it has to be explained somehow, right? Because you know, Jake is telling this story of what happened to him and Tiffany. And this detail of not only being put in the closet, but then having the closet door screwed shut. And then they get to the house and there's, you know, screw holes in the door.
24:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, the story is lining up.
24:10 Speaker 00 You gotta, you gotta explain that. Ah, it was just my weird roommate. Detective Cobbman received a tip regarding Stephanie's steps whereabouts. He found her and questioned her. Stephanie was already familiar with Cobbman, which meant she was more willing to talk. Cobbman told Stephanie, they were looking into Tiffany's disappearance. She said about Tiffany, she's a dumb lying girl. She always gets herself in trouble. You know what I mean?
24:38 Speaker 01 Not holding back, is she?
24:40 Speaker 00 No, but she doesn't stop there. Stephanie said Shauna called her and told her Stephanie was going to be at Rob Rose's house and they wanted her there. So she went over. Stephanie admitted, here's the thing, in their eyes, I was there to slap her around. I'm just going to be honest. I've been known to beat up girls and I got into that kind of thing because I'm really tired of guys hitting the girls. And I walked up to her and I hit her. You know what I mean? And I hit her a few times, you know?
25:10 Speaker 01 Very open.
25:12 Speaker 00 Too open.
25:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:13 Speaker 00 I mean, obviously, in this situation, it's good because maybe they don't solve the crime without these people opening their mouths. But you just wonder why these two, these two women, girls are telling this detective these very incriminating details.
25:32 Speaker 01 But she is showing how she is ruthless.
25:35 Speaker 00 But break down that statement. You know, I'm really tired of guys hitting girls. So I decided to do it.
25:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:43 Speaker 00 I stepped up to be the one to do it. Stephanie described the assault and bragged, I beat that bitch's ass.
25:51 Speaker 01 So she enjoyed it?
25:53 Speaker 00 Well, she was bragging about it. So yeah, I think that's a pretty safe assumption to make. But you know what you don't want to tell a detective who's investigating a missing person's case is I beat that bitch's ass.
26:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's not a good thing to say.
26:11 Speaker 00 She claimed none of the men hit Tiffany while she was at the house. Stephanie continued by saying, I mean, literally after I beat her up, Tiffany was like sitting in the chair. And I told her to clean up her face because she was bleeding, obviously. And you know, like, everybody was fine. Everybody left, like, everybody left as far as I know. Like, that's where it ended, you know? I had to leave. Stephanie believed Tiffany was still alive, adding, if she was killed, I wasn't there.
26:42 Speaker 01 Well, would you say if she was killed, I was there? Because then that's going to make you accomplice.
26:48 Speaker 00 Yeah. So maybe that's why she admitted to beating her because she's going to say, I did do that part, but I wasn't there if and when she was killed. Copman let Stephanie go because he knew he would need her cooperation down the line. Police continued looking for Tiffany, but they were losing hope that she was still alive. Detective Copman went to re-interview Shawna Cannon in early October 2015. She admitted that she had talked to Stephanie, who confessed that she tried to strangle Tiffany to death, but didn't do it. Shawna brought up a hammer, but told the police they'd have to figure out who used it.
27:32 Speaker 01 Okay.
27:33 Speaker 00 Either, I'm telling you what, this is like a scene out of that Liar Liar movie with Jim Carrey.
27:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:40 Speaker 00 Where they just either, they can't lie, they're forced to tell the truth. I mean, this is not what you see from most individuals, I think, when they're, they're being interviewed.
27:51 Speaker 01 It's like, oh, wait, wait, wait, did we tell you about the hammer? There was a hammer, but that's where we're going to draw the line. We're gonna, we're not going to tell you who had the hammer in their hand.
28:01 Speaker 00 And who used it, you're gonna have to figure that part out. Copman re-interviewed Stephanie the next day. He told her he had new information and he wanted to know about the hammer. Stephanie said, well, the boys took care of all that. She acknowledged trying to strangle Tiffany, but she couldn't do it. And the men were angry. She said that at one point, Rob Rose asked Tiffany why she wouldn't just die. But it was William Alexander who hit Tiffany with the hammer. Tiffany died from one blow to the head. I mean, this detective Copman is just getting like a treasure trove of information.
28:38 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm thinking he's smiling inside, like, I can't believe all this information I'm receiving right now.
28:46 Speaker 00 That these people are giving, giving all this up. And it's like, he gets something from someone and then is able to go back to another person. Relay that information, draw out even more information, go to the next person. Afterwards, according to Stephanie, they rolled Tiffany up in a rug. They put her in Rob Rose's car. From there, Paul and Rob drove off with the body. They came back several hours later and Rose told Stephanie that Tiffany's body was now coyote food. When Jake was let out of the closet, he feared for his life and agreed not to tell anyone.
29:24 Speaker 01 I'm sure he was so scared. There's no way he wanted to tell anybody anything.
29:31 Speaker 00 Well, I mean, would you not have said anything you thought you had to say to get out of that house alive?
29:38 Speaker 01 Well, that's true too. Yeah.
29:39 Speaker 00 Whatever you thought those people wanted to hear, that's what you're going to say. No doubt, this was a significant development in the case, but without a body or manner of death confirmed, police couldn't arrest anyone yet. It was essential that investigators get Rob Rose on their side. They offered him immunity in exchange for leading them to Tiffany's body. And this is, you know, pretty interesting, something that we talk about quite a bit, right? Who gets immunity? Who's going to turn on who? And the fact that it's often very hard for the authorities to press forward without the body.
30:22 Speaker 00 And obviously they must have felt that way because they were willing to offer someone immunity in exchange for the location of Tiffany's body.
30:31 Speaker 01 And with a deal like that, I think you have to accept it.
30:35 Speaker 00 Yeah, if you were involved, then you could potentially be facing murder charges. And someone says, hey, tell us where the body is and we'll give you immunity. I don't think you could sign that fast enough.
30:46 Speaker 01 Exactly.
30:48 Speaker 00 According to the Albuquerque Journal, in early October, a landowner in southern Torrance County reported finding a garbage bag stuffed with bloodstained items, including clothing, a plastic sheet, latex gloves, a cellphone, and towels. On November 20th, 2015, police found Tiffany's remains a mile and a half from where the trash bag was found. Her remains were so decomposed that a forensic anthropologist spent six months determining her cause of death. Six months.
31:22 Speaker 01 It's a long time.
31:23 Speaker 00 I do want to go back to this bag, right? We talk a lot about people, you know, stumbling upon something. Sometimes it's a dead body. Now we're talking about a garbage bag, right? You open it up. I think pretty quickly, opening a garbage bag and finding that stuff, you know, it goes along with something not right. There's bloodstained items, plastic sheeting, a cellphone, towels that are probably bloody, probably making a phone call to the police very, very quickly.
32:03 Speaker 00 On May 26, 2016, a forensic anthropologist determined Tiffany died of blunt force injuries of the head, and the manner of death was homicide. On June 1st of that year, the police arrested Shawna Cannon, Stephanie Step, William Paul Alexander, and 30-year-old Joshua Terramasco. They were charged with open murder, conspiracy, robbery, kidnapping, and other crimes.
32:32 Speaker 01 It was a big pickup day right there.
32:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, and to me, they had all of this information, but it wasn't until, you know, they had Tiffany's body and the manner of death was determined.
32:47 Speaker 00 That they were willing to move forward with the arrests. Tara Masco participated in the crimes that occurred at Rob Rose's house. According to a criminal complaint, Tiffany's boyfriend Jake Seal witnessed Stephanie and Tara Masco placing a plastic drop cloth on the floor and covering the windows with cardboard. And my thought is Gibbs, okay, you may not have been the person who hit Tiffany with the hammer.
33:14 Speaker 01 Right.
33:15 Speaker 00 That killed her. But if you're involved in, you know, keeping her there, if you're putting down drop cloths and covering the windows, you're involved.
33:25 Speaker 01 You're part of the crime.
33:28 Speaker 00 So they're really, you know, getting somewhere, right? With the disappearance and death of Tiffany Boyer. But officers were still investigating the disappearance of Robert McGuire. At the time of the arrest, Albuquerque Police Spokesman Tanner Tixier said, "We have not found it. We believe he's deceased, but we have no evidence." What happened to Machete Bob remained a mystery until September 2016, when the Albuquerque Journal obtained documents that revealed new details. Although an officer said he had not been found, Robert McGuire's body was found in Las Lunas on February 16th, 2016.
34:11 Speaker 00 He was wearing only briefs and was buried in a shallow grave. The medical examiner couldn't immediately determine his cause of death, but based on witness statements, it appeared he was killed with a crossbow.
34:24 Speaker 01 Whoa.
34:25 Speaker 00 I don't know how many cases we've done where someone has been killed with a crossbow.
34:30 Speaker 01 Pretty rare.
34:31 Speaker 00 I think so. Man, I know people use crossbows for hunting. I know Daryl Dixon is deadly with a crossbow in The Walking Dead.
34:41 Speaker 01 That's true.
34:41 Speaker 00 But I don't know how many people are killed with crossbows on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, on purpose at least.
34:50 Speaker 01 I mean, if you think about it, it's actually a pretty good weapon.
34:53 Speaker 00 And the reason for that is?
34:55 Speaker 01 Got a lot of power behind it.
34:57 Speaker 00 As opposed to what? A .357? Or a .44 Magnum?
35:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, I wouldn't want to take that battle.
35:04 Speaker 00 Now, maybe you have some advantages on not, not leaving ballistics behind, or you know, some things like that, but.
35:12 Speaker 01 It can be a little quieter.
35:13 Speaker 00 It's definitely gonna be quieter. During the investigation, police learned that Tiffany Boyer was angry at Maguire. So she told another man he raped her. Later, a witness pointed to that man as a potential suspect in Maguire's death. The police noted that there was no proof Maguire raped Tiffany, but the man told others he was angry about the rape allegations. He told Tiffany he was sick of people in this town treating women like that, and not to worry, he would take care of Robert.
35:46 Speaker 01 I'll take care of that, Robert.
35:48 Speaker 00 In August 2015, a witness told the police that she was in her trailer. When she heard Maguire scream as if he were being hurt, she saw a man and a woman in the living room and saw the man set a crossbow down next to the door. The man went into Maguire's bedroom and then came back into the living room carrying a bloody arrow. When the witness asked the woman if Maguire was dead, she said, probably.
36:15 Speaker 01 Well, bloody arrow, probably not a good sign.
36:18 Speaker 00 No, I'm wondering like, okay, why is this woman able to see into the trailer? I mean, what do you got? The door open? You leave all the windows wide open while you're shooting somebody with a crossbow? I don't think we're talking about Mensa level criminals here in this case.
36:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, they seem kinda dumb.
36:38 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I don't know if it, you know, has to do with IQ, or is it that just, you know, people are in such a rage that they're doing things without thinking about what's going on around them, who could potentially be watching. The witness saw the woman stuffing a blanket and bedding from Maguire's room into a plastic garbage bag. She saw them wipe down the front door of the trailer and leave, but she didn't see Maguire's body. And she said she never saw him again. But she did see quite a bit.
37:14 Speaker 01 I wonder if she was nervous, like, I hope they don't see me here. I hope that arrow doesn't come this way.
37:21 Speaker 00 Well, that's a great point, you know, because if you think about witnessing a murder or what you believe to be a murder, the last thing in the world you would want is for these people to realize that you saw them. When arrests were made in Tiffany's case, the APD claimed Maguire was still missing, a spokesman said this was because revealing the body had been found would have drastically affected this case. The spokesman also said no one had been charged in Maguire's death because the witness's account was not enough probable cause. I don't know, seems like quite a bit of probable cause to me.
38:01 Speaker 01 I think they got some pretty good information there.
38:03 Speaker 00 Based on what this person saw. Now, maybe they said this person wasn't credible, or you know, I don't know, maybe the person couldn't ID the individuals. There had to have been something to it. In June 2017, five inmates, including Joshua Terramasco, were charged with conspiracy, bringing contraband into jail, and identity theft. Back in February, a male clerk spotted a letter addressed to Joshua that didn't look right. It had his attorney's address on it, but when deputies opened it, they found forged legal documents and several articles on subjects such as how to deal with your crazy boss, divorce, and how people
38:48 Speaker 00 actually fought with swords. Detectives thought this was odd, and irrelevant to a criminal case, hidden throughout the pages were 27 strips of Suboxone, a drug used to treat opiate addiction. Investigators learned that Terramasco worked with four friends to smuggle Suboxone into jail so he could sell it to other inmates. And you always wonder how People are getting so many drugs into these jails.
39:17 Speaker 01 Besides keistering it?
39:18 Speaker 00 Yeah, I know. There's a lot of key string that goes on. But here we got some Hannibal Lecter tooth fairy type stuff here, right? There's uh, stuff hidden in, in the, in the letters.
39:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:31 Speaker 00 On August 1st, 2017, Stephanie Stapp pleaded guilty to second degree murder, conspiracy to commit first degree murder and kidnapping. Under the terms of her plea agreement, she would be sentenced to 24 years in prison and agree to give statements. She would not be sentenced until the other cases were resolved. So she's getting a plea agreement.
39:55 Speaker 01 I mean, it's not a great deal, but it's not a bad deal for somebody to tell the detective about everything.
40:03 Speaker 00 Well, I mean, second degree murder, conspiracy to commit first degree murder, kidnapping, those are going to be lengthy sentences. So maybe 24 years in prison is a, is a good deal. Further details about the Machete Bob case were revealed with the conviction and sentencing of a man named Adrian Apodaca. I mean, we have a lot of people, Gibbs, involved in these cases. Apodaca was the main suspect in the Machete Bob case. He fled Albuquerque for Florida and joined a motorcycle gang that had been infiltrated by the FBI. Apodaca, self-proclaimed white supremacist, began talking about murders and robberies
40:47 Speaker 00 he committed, claiming that he potentially left a trail of dead onlookers from Phoenix to South Florida. But the FBI could only confirm that the murder of Robert McGuire had occurred. Apodaca was a self-employed tattoo artist from Colorado with a history of mental health issues dating back to age 13. He had a child he hadn't seen or supported since infancy. As of 2012, he was married to a woman with ties to white supremacist gangs. So this guy, Apodaca, was a member of the Vinlanders, a neo-Nazi gang formed in 2003 with a history of violence throughout the US.
41:28 Speaker 00 Apodaca had a swastika tattoo and you're really saying something about yourself if you're willing to ink a swastika on your body.
41:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's a statement, I guess. I like the glorious, I like the glorious bastard process better.
41:48 Speaker 00 Or the inglorious bastards. Yeah, they, they would carve them in with the, with the knife, right?
41:56 Speaker 01 On their foreheads.
41:58 Speaker 00 I, I, I get it. People are into all kinds of stuff. You know, this, this neo-Nazi thing, I don't understand it. But I also especially don't understand putting a swastika tattoo on yourself. Now, these are not the type of people who are trying to, you know, interview for jobs. So I don't think they're too worried about all of that.
42:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't think they really care what society thinks of them.
42:29 Speaker 00 Yeah, or what anybody thinks outside of their, their gang or their affiliation. When Apodaca first came onto the FBI's radar, he was living in Davie, Florida, behind the clubhouse of the Dirty White Boys Motorcycle Club, which supports notorious motorcycle gangs such as the Outlaws. The Dirty White Boys Motorcycle Club.
42:52 Speaker 01 Ah, there's a song out there called Dirty White Boys.
42:55 Speaker 00 Is there?
42:56 Speaker 01 From the seventies.
42:57 Speaker 00 I, I was not aware of that. In November 2015, Apodaca met Stephen Watt, an FBI informant. Watt was a member of the motorcycle gang and had been a paid informant since 2009. He alerted the FBI whenever he became aware of illegal activities. You want to talk about a dangerous job? FBI informant in a very serious illegal motorcycle gang.
43:24 Speaker 01 That tells me you watched probably too much of the series.
43:29 Speaker 00 Sons of Anarchy?
43:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:31 Speaker 00 Yeah. You know, that, anything to do with the mob, you know, if you're infiltrating any of these really dangerous organizations, Donnie Brasco comes to mind.
43:42 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
43:43 Speaker 00 With Johnny Depp. That's dangerous work.
43:46 Speaker 01 You better hope they don't find out.
43:47 Speaker 00 Yeah. Watt would later testify that Apodaca knew how Machete Bob was killed and where his body was several months before his remains were found. The informant said Apodaca killed McGuire with a crossbow and he and his girlfriend buried the body in the desert near Lost Loomis. Tiffany Boyer had told Adrian Apodaca that McGuire raped her. Apodaca was the one who told Tiffany not to worry. He would take care of Robert. The informant would later testify that he cooperated with the FBI because, as quoted by the Southern Poverty Law Center, unprovoked violence undermines the cause of white supremacy.
44:30 Speaker 00 Oh, so he really was a white supremacist. He just didn't believe in the type of violence, I guess, that the motorcycle gang.
44:40 Speaker 01 Promoted?
44:41 Speaker 00 Promoted? So he was willing to work with the FBI? In 2016, the FBI began an investigation to determine whether Apodaca was engaging in criminal activities. During the investigation, agents obtained secretly recorded conversations where Apodaca bragged that he and other Vinlanders killed multiple people while posing as police officers who ripped off drug houses in Arizona. In September 2016, informant Stephen Watt introduced Apodaca to a team of undercover agents posing as a gang of wealthy white supremacists selling cocaine. A few weeks later, Apodaca was invited to a party where he was introduced
45:25 Speaker 00 to an undercover agent posing as a higher ranking member of the organization. In October, Apodaca did some jobs for the group. He hid what he thought was nine kilos of cocaine in shoeboxes and conducted protection and surveillance missions.
45:41 Speaker 00 During a meeting with a man named Tony, who was actually another undercover agent posing as a leader of a different criminal organization. The undercover agents told Apodaca that Tony was driving an expensive car, but claimed he didn't have money to pay them back. Unsolicited, Apodaca offered to steal Tony's car. The next week, he agreed to a murder-for-hire job. To make an example of Tony, Apodaca was told he was in Georgia. He asked for $5,000 cash and a driver's license, credit card, and social security number under a new name. He said he needed a new identity to avoid investigators who wanted to question him about Machete Bock.
46:27 Speaker 00 He also gave agents a handwritten list of what he needed to commit the murder. He laid out his plan to find out where Tony spent time, study his residence, and map out escape routes. I mean, this guy, although he doesn't know it, because he doesn't realize these people are undercover, but he is really digging himself a big hole.
46:49 Speaker 01 Oh, he is.
46:51 Speaker 00 On October 28, 2016, Apodaca and an agent arrived at a hotel in Valdosta, Georgia, for what he thought was a meeting, to obtain a gun for the murder. Instead, he was arrested. And I always wonder how that feeling is for these people.
47:08 Speaker 01 Like, what point do you start to shit yourself?
47:11 Speaker 00 Well, I think it's when they reveal who they really are. The handcuffs come out, the guns come out. Yeah, you might defecate on yourself at that point. But I just wonder what the feeling is, is though, you know, you're this big, bad motorcycle gang member.
47:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:28 Speaker 00 And you're, you're going through all these machinations about.
47:33 Speaker 00 Okay, I'm gonna kill this guy. I'm gonna do this. We're laying out the whole plan. Then all of a sudden, you realize that these people that you've been talking to are the FBI. They're undercover FBI agents. Do you feel like incredibly dumb at that point? Or just, oh, well, they got me.
47:52 Speaker 01 I think you have to feel somewhat stupid.
47:56 Speaker 00 Duped. I mean, I'm sure there's a number of words for it. On August 29th, 2017, Apodaca was convicted of using interstate facilities in the commission of a murder-for-hire, possession of a firearm during a violent or drug trafficking crime, robbery, and being a felon in possession of ammunition. Apodaca's attorney argued the FBI created an elaborate sting operation. And in order to make it a federal crime, they decided that the target was going to be up in Georgia. They got him a car and they spent seven hours driving him across the state of Florida.
48:35 Speaker 00 And they might have done all that, but the guy still agreed to kill another human being for money. I mean, you know, the police do sting operations all the time.
48:46 Speaker 01 They do.
48:47 Speaker 00 It doesn't mean you have to get in the car and agree to kill somebody for money.
48:52 Speaker 01 It wasn't like it was a lot of money either. Five grand?
48:55 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know for him, was it about the money? Or was it more about, you know, getting this new identity? Because they thought they, you know, authorities were gonna come after him for the McGuire murder.
49:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
49:10 Speaker 00 That could have been more of it than just the money. Steven Watt was the main witness against Apodaca and testified about his tales of violence, including his role in Machete Bob's murder. Apodaca testified that these were just stories of bravado, calling them tall tales and legends. Well, what else are you gonna say at that point? But on January 19th, 2018, Adrian Apodaca was sentenced to 40 years in federal prison for the murder-for-hire plot. An Albuquerque PD spokesman told the Journal that the New Mexico case was submitted to the DA's office in 2017, but it had yet to go before a grand jury. So the murder of Robert McGuire, AKA Machete Bob, is still officially unsolved.
49:57 Speaker 00 On January 18th, 2018, William Paul Alexander was convicted of first degree murder for the death of Tiffany Boyer. Stephanie Stapp and Joshua Terramasco testified at his trial. Terramasco and Shawna Cannon pleaded guilty to kidnapping and were awaiting sentencing. On February 12th, 2018, Stephanie Stapp and Joshua Terramasco were sentenced. Terramasco received eight years and Stephanie received 24 years. Shawna Cannon was later sentenced to six years in prison and three years of probation.
50:33 Speaker 01 I mean, not hateful times for some of them.
50:36 Speaker 00 Yeah. And again, how much of those had to do with the fact that authorities needed some of these people to tell on others? You know, we talked about it, right? Terramasco was not thought to have been involved in the killing.
50:52 Speaker 01 Right.
50:53 Speaker 00 But he was definitely there.
50:54 Speaker 01 Sure.
50:55 Speaker 00 And, you know, he put down the drop class. He, he helped, you know, black out the windows.
51:01 Speaker 01 Participated at some level.
51:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, he definitely was a participant. You can say, okay, eight years is kind of light. And then you can also say, well, he wasn't directly involved in the murder, but it's kind of hard to say that.
51:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:19 Speaker 00 Directly, indirectly. I mean, you're involved, you're involved. In an interview after the sentencing hearing, prosecutor Michael Frick said that when William Alexander arrived at the house on August 19th, 2015, his presence changed the tenor of the whole thing. Alexander encouraged Stephanie Stapp to hurt and kill Tiffany. Stapp fractured Tiffany's face and attempted to strangle her before Alexander beat her to death with a hammer. Frick also said he believed Terramasco's testimony at trial helped secure a conviction. So I'm sure that had a lot to do with the fact that he only got eight years. Tara Masco's attorney said he had shown remorse for his role.
52:04 Speaker 01 I think that's a big piece too, right? I mean, you have to be remorseful, not faking it, but you really need to show that you're remorse.
52:12 Speaker 00 A genuine remorse is, yeah, very helpful. Tiffany's father, Blair Boyer, described his daughter as a loving person who had fallen in with the wrong crowd, saying, per the Albuquerque Journal, she never had the chance to take a different path in her life because of the actions that were taken by these individuals. That opportunity, that chance for a better life was taken from her.
52:37 Speaker 01 And I'm sure that was rough for him to say.
52:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, because I think he recognized the fact that, well, she was doing some things she shouldn't have been doing, but you know, who's to say that she doesn't break from this crowd at some point and, and, you know, get her life back in order. On April 3rd, 2018, William Paul Alexander was sentenced to life plus 36 years. At the sentencing hearing, the court heard that he was a cheesecake baker who had plans to open a shop near the University of New Mexico. He had already secured a location and started painting, but it never went any further because he was arrested. Yeah, that's who I want to get my cheesecakes from, a guy who kills women by hitting them
53:24 Speaker 00 with a hammer. Now, he might've made a hell of a cheesecake, but I'm not eating it.
53:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm staying away from that.
53:31 Speaker 00 But Gibbs, he was going to call the cheesecake shop, the felony cafe, because it's a crime, it tastes so good.
53:40 Speaker 01 That seems like a strange name to use. I mean, I don't care how good it was, the felony cafe. I don't know if it's going to really drum up a lot of business.
53:49 Speaker 00 Well, I don't know. It was also said that he planned on employing people with a criminal record, which.
53:57 Speaker 00 Okay, I get it. A good idea, maybe, to give some individuals a second chance.
54:03 Speaker 01 Do you pay with your credit card there, or do you just pay cash only?
54:06 Speaker 00 Maybe find a different cheesecake place.
54:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:08 Speaker 00 I mean, I mean, I'm all about people, you know, getting a second chance, right?
54:15 Speaker 01 Of course.
54:15 Speaker 00 Being rehabilitated.
54:17 Speaker 01 It's a good thing.
54:18 Speaker 00 At the sentencing hearing, Alexander's attorney, Leanne Kirk, argued that there was no DNA or fingerprint evidence linking him to the murder. Kirk said in court, he, by all accounts, baked wonderful cheesecakes. His idea was, let's get jobs for these folks. We'll call it the felony cafe. I'll hire people who have gotten out of custody, who want to make their lives better. And, you know, I can see that, you know, being a good thing, if these people really are, you know, willing to turn their lives around.
54:52 Speaker 01 Sure, yeah.
54:53 Speaker 00 Given their second chance. But the fact that he was going to do this, and the fact that he, by all accounts, baked wonderful cheesecakes, I'm not sure how that should factor into the sentencing guidelines. Now, it might factor in where you're placed, once you get into the prison system.
55:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:14 Speaker 00 Maybe they need a good cheesecake baker.
55:17 Speaker 01 But you can't be a good guy over here, and be a bad guy over here.
55:21 Speaker 00 Well, you can be, but it shouldn't cancel it out.
55:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:29 Speaker 00 Right? Just because you did some good things, doesn't completely cancel out the bad thing that you did, or the bad things you do. In his statement to the judge, Alexander said, "I was trying to help people. I wasn't trying to hurt Tiffany." So I get what his attorney's trying to do, right? There's no DNA, there's no fingerprints. Basically, all you have are these people who said that my client was there, and killed Tiffany with a hammer. But you have a lot of people.
56:00 Speaker 01 I mean, you do. You have a lot of people where they stand up individuals? No, but it's a lot of people to point the finger at you.
56:08 Speaker 00 Prosecutor Sean Sullivan said he was shocked that Alexander refused to take responsibility, saying, "He's not a small business owner, he's a murderer. This isn't about cheesecake, it's about a life." And he took Tiffany Boyer's life. So- Gibbs, as we wrap this one up, it's a real doozy, right? You have the, this investigation into the murders of Tiffany Boyer and Machete Bob. Very complex cases that really, if you think about it, might have remained unsolved without some of these witnesses coming forward and making some of the statements that they did. And then obviously, you know, once police got a little bit of information, it snowballed.
56:53 Speaker 00 They started confronting people. The group of friends turned on each other, you know, almost immediately. And it was like each person started revealing more pieces of information that shed light on what really happened to Tiffany and who was responsible. But the one thing I really do want to talk about, because we haven't yet, is, you know, Tiffany Boyer was a victim, right? She was murdered. Obviously Machete Bob was a victim. But what role did Tiffany Boyer play in Machete Bob's death?
57:29 Speaker 01 Well, I guess it comes down to what you believe. Do you believe she told this guy that she was raped not knowing what he would do? Or does she tell this guy that she was raped knowing what he would do?
57:47 Speaker 00 And maybe even kind of guiding him to do what he did. Right? It's a little different because normally, yeah, it's tough talking about the victim and, and putting or assigning any type of blame on them. But there's a lot of unknowns here.
58:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:08 Speaker 00 First of all, we don't know if she was raped, but if she did tell Adrian this, it could be, like you said, she didn't know what he would do, or it could have been she knew exactly what he would do and that's what she wanted to happen.
58:23 Speaker 01 But we're never know.
58:24 Speaker 00 No. I don't know that we will ever know that part of it. It's just such a strange case because you have two people killed. And they're, but they're interconnected.
58:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:35 Speaker 00 Yeah. They're connected to each other because obviously then Tiffany is killed because all of these people believe that it was her actions that led to Machete Bob's death.
58:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:50 Speaker 00 Or they're trying to figure out what happened to him, where he is, and she was killed during, during that process.
58:56 Speaker 01 Just a vicious cycle.
58:58 Speaker 00 But that's it for our episode on Tiffany Boyer. We got a voicemail, Gibbs, you want to check that out?
59:03 Speaker 01 Let's hear it.
59:04 Speaker 02 Hi, guys. This is Sarah from Delaware. I've been a long time listener, but I got a little behind. I'm currently listening to the Timothy John Cook episode, and I will say Gibby has always been my favorite, but not knowing Edgar Allan Poe's actual name might make my little golf heart have to switch teams.
59:22 Speaker 00 I think that should be more than enough.
59:25 Speaker 01 I think this is cruel, man.
59:28 Speaker 00 No, if, if we base it all on what Gibby knows or doesn't know, it's gonna be rough.
59:34 Speaker 01 It's a sad day right now.
59:35 Speaker 00 What can you do, man?
59:36 Speaker 01 When you lose a, somebody that was Team Gibby.
59:39 Speaker 00 No, she's just thinking about it.
59:41 Speaker 01 Oh.
59:42 Speaker 00 She didn't make, she hasn't made the decision yet.
59:44 Speaker 01 There's still a chance.
59:45 Speaker 00 There's still, so you're telling me there's a chance.
59:47 Speaker 01 You're telling me there's a chance that can keep you.
59:50 Speaker 00 All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.
59:54 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
59:55 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
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