Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Rodney Alcala Part 2 About this episode Rodney Alcala was an American serial killer and sex offender who was sentenced to death in California for multiple murders. Alcala has been conclusively linked to eight murders, but authorities suspect he could have killed over 100 people during his travels around the country.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the infamous serial killer Rodney Alacala. In part two of the Rodney Alcala episodes, we’ll cover the known crimes he committed in 1979, how he was finally apprehended, and the outcomes of his many legal proceedings.
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1:48 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 452 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
1:59 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself?
2:00 Speaker 00 I am doing great. I'm actually in a super mood after we did our Patreon video and audio. For those of you who are on Patreon, I know not everybody watches the video. You should really watch this one because Gibby has on a shirt that says Fergie, Fergie, Fergie, Fergie. The problem is it came a little smaller than he was expecting it to.
2:28 Speaker 01 It was.
2:29 Speaker 00 And he kind of looks like the Hulk after he's already transferred into the Hulk from Bruce Banner. This thing is almost bursting at the seams.
2:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was definitely squeezing me.
2:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, so you gotta, you gotta check out that visual.
2:45 Speaker 01 Thought we're gonna have to cut it off me at one point.
2:47 Speaker 00 Well, you'd be on your own there. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Ashley.
2:54 Speaker 01 Hey, Ashley.
2:55 Speaker 00 Jonathan Humber.
2:56 Speaker 01 What's going on, Humber?
2:57 Speaker 00 Carl Adams.
2:59 Speaker 01 Hey, Adams.
3:00 Speaker 00 Selena Salmon.
3:01 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks, Selena.
3:02 Speaker 00 Stevens H.
3:04 Speaker 01 Just Steven H?
3:05 Speaker 00 Or Stevench.
3:06 Speaker 01 Oh, hey, Stevench.
3:08 Speaker 00 I'm not sure on that one.
3:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:10 Speaker 00 Tina Borchik.
3:12 Speaker 01 What's going on, Tina?
3:13 Speaker 00 Jean Vansel.
3:14 Speaker 01 Hey, Vansel.
3:14 Speaker 00 Amy.
3:15 Speaker 01 Good old Amy.
3:16 Speaker 00 Audrey Miracle.
3:17 Speaker 01 Hey, you are a miracle.
3:19 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Anna PierdeLuca.
3:22 Speaker 01 Okay, PierdeLuca.
3:25 Speaker 00 So we appreciate the new support. And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Adele.
3:34 Speaker 01 Rolling through the river.
3:36 Speaker 00 Or rolling in the deep.
3:37 Speaker 01 That one, yeah.
3:39 Speaker 00 Big Adele fan, are you?
3:42 Speaker 01 She's in my playlist.
3:44 Speaker 00 Been with us a long time, so we appreciate that. So Gibbs, right now, we have a new episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Dr. Sneha Ann Philip. This is a very fascinating case. She died on September 11th, 2001, during the terrorist attacks in New York City. She was thought to have been a casualty of the attacks, but she was seen alive the day before. And there's really no evidence placing her at the World Trade Center on the 11th. So there are a lot of questions surrounding her death. And quite a few of them come from her lifestyle, which we'll get into.
4:26 Speaker 01 Very interesting case.
4:27 Speaker 00 Yes, it is. So check it out. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?
4:32 Speaker 01 I am ready.
4:33 Speaker 00 We're on to part two of Rodney Alcala. In part one, we covered Alcala's early life, his known crimes in the late 60s and 70s, and how sentencing laws at the time allowed him to continue preying on vulnerable young women and girls. And you know, those are always tough. They make us mad, they make the audience mad. Right? How can this guy be out after he's already been not just accused, but convicted of doing really horrible things?
5:06 Speaker 01 Exactly. And Monster on the loose.
5:08 Speaker 00 Yeah. And, and they let him out very early. And part two will cover the known crimes he committed in 1979, and how he was finally apprehended for good. According to a later confession, Alcala picked up a 15 year old girl named Monique Hoyt on February 12th, 1979. Monique was hitchhiking in Riverside County. They drove to Alcala's residence and spent the night together. He claimed they had consensual sex. The next morning, they went to the mountains where he took nude photos of Monique and photos of the two of them performing simulated sex acts together, per People vs. Alcala.
5:52 Speaker 00 At some point, Monique became frightened and began to scream and struggle. Rodney tied her up, stuffed his shirt in her mouth, beat her unconscious with a rock and raped her. He said he hadn't planned to do this, but was incoherent and frightened because the situation got out of hand.
6:12 Speaker 01 Sounds like the situation was out of hand from the get go.
6:15 Speaker 00 Yeah. And, and does it also bring into question his claims of spending the night together and having consensual sex? Because it almost makes it sound like the minute he starts doing, you know, something a little out of the ordinary the next day, she becomes very frightened. So did they really have consensual sex the night before? I don't know. He drove Monique back to town. She was able to escape when they stopped at a gas station and she notified the police. Monique identified Alcala in a photo lineup that day.
6:57 Speaker 00 He was arrested and confessed to choking and raping her. He was charged with kidnapping and rape. His bail was set at $10,000, which his mother paid.
7:08 Speaker 01 And she was lucky to escape that.
7:10 Speaker 00 Oh, absolutely. Alcala gave his notice to the LA Times in April, and his last day was in May. While out on bail, he committed another murder. On June 14th, 1979, 21-year-old Jill Parento was found dead in her Burbank apartment. Jill was a computer program key punch operator. She left work on June 13th to go to a baseball game. She didn't come to work the following morning, so the police went to her apartment to check on her and found signs of forced entry. An intruder had broken in through the windows and cut himself, leaving blood evidence behind that would later
7:53 Speaker 00 secure a conviction. Jill's body was found on the floor, propped up by pillows. She had been sexually assaulted, beaten, and strangled.
8:02 Speaker 01 He's just a brutal guy.
8:04 Speaker 00 He is. I mean, there's no two ways around it. He was an absolutely brutal monster. But you know, the one thing I want to talk about is, you know, he's out on bail for a charge of kidnapping and rape. What's the thought? I get it, people get bail, I understand that. But is there no thought that he's going to immediately go and do these things again while out on bail? Jill's friend, Catherine Bryant, would later testify that she and Jill met Rodney Alcala several times before at a club. Just six days later, Alcala murdered a young girl, 12-year-old Robin Samso, when
8:49 Speaker 00 missing on June 20th, 1979. Robin was supposed to start her first day of work, answering phones in exchange for lessons. Before that, she went to Huntington Beach with her close friend Bridget Wolver. A man approached them and asked to take their picture. Bridget told CBS, I could definitely see a gentleman with dark hair. I mean, he honed in on us like, really like a shark in the water, honing in on a seal. And he goes, can I take your girls' picture? And Robin goes, sure. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, pops up Jackie Young, my neighbor. You know, she goes, Bridget, is everything okay? Are you girls all right?
9:34 Speaker 00 And man, he took that camera, turned his head down and you could almost see like smoke coming off his dress shoes. He just, he was gone.
9:44 Speaker 01 Did not hesitate to get the heck out of there, did he?
9:47 Speaker 00 No, because I think he saw his kind of preferred scenario, right? Vulnerable girls or young women, together or alone. Now all of a sudden, you've introduced maybe an adult, an older neighbor.
10:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:10 Speaker 00 And he wants no part of that. So he gets the heck out of Dodge. The girls went back to Bridget's apartment at 3:10 PM. Robin had to hurry to get to her 4:00 PM ballet lesson. So Bridget offered her, her bike. That was the last time she saw her friend. Robin's ballet teacher called her mom when she didn't show up for her lesson. And her family immediately reported her missing. The police questioned Bridget and she said she believed the man who took their picture could be responsible. Bridget and witness Jackie Young helped create a composite sketch that was crucial to the investigation.
10:51 Speaker 00 The sketch was shown by the media on June 22nd. And I get it, this seems like a very reasonable conclusion to draw. Where you have this guy who seems a little creepy, wants to take the girls' photos. All of a sudden, one of them goes missing. Not that hard to figure out that it's possible this guy had something to do with it.
11:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, it sounds like maybe he stalked her and kept an eye on her and took advantage of a situation when it came available to him.
11:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think there was a reason why he chose them, that it have something to do with a certain look, that, you know, he was attracted to. We don't know, right? All the time what's going through these guys' heads, but it could be any number of things. Two days later, Alcala chemically straightened his naturally curly hair. When the curls started to grow back, he cut his hair short. He also replaced the carpet in his car around this time, claiming he spilled gas on it.
11:56 Speaker 01 I mean, that's a big deal. Changing your carpet out in your car.
12:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's not the easiest thing in the world. Now, why would someone want to do that? Okay, spilled gas, he spilled some kind of toxic chemical and you couldn't get it to come out. That would be one reason. Another reason would be to cover up blood in a, you know, a crime scene.
12:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:22 Speaker 00 I mean, a lot of times we're talking about people replacing, you know, carpet or linoleum, some type of flooring in a house, right? After somebody goes missing, that is always a red flag to me. Not that people don't do it, they do it all the time, every day around the world. It's the timing.
12:42 Speaker 01 Exactly.
12:43 Speaker 00 Of it that seems suspicious.
12:45 Speaker 01 Like with the car, I'm like, why just replace the carpet? I would think you would just go ahead and burn it.
12:51 Speaker 00 Because that's not suspicious at all?
12:53 Speaker 01 Well, it's suspicious either way, but at least if you burn it, you're going to eliminate any potential evidence, right?
13:01 Speaker 00 Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna play devil's advocate on your point here.
13:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:06 Speaker 00 While at the same time trying to not stomp all over it, but. You know, replacing carpet, okay, not everybody's going to know you did that.
13:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:16 Speaker 00 Setting your car on fire and having to find a different mode of transportation. I think a lot more people might be privy to that.
13:26 Speaker 01 Good point. Good point. I'll give you that.
13:28 Speaker 00 I'm just saying, but if you really want to get rid of the evidence, then I see what you're saying. But it's also very interesting, Gibbs, that this composite sketch comes out. He knows it's him, right? In the sketch, so he's going to great lengths to try to alter his appearance. And the best way for a lot of people is to, you know, mess with their hair.
13:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:57 Speaker 00 Color it, cut it a different way.
14:00 Speaker 01 What the heck could you do at this point?
14:02 Speaker 00 Wear a toupee, maybe like George Costanza?
14:06 Speaker 01 That'd be interesting to see.
14:07 Speaker 00 Yeah.
14:08 Speaker 01 Let's do that.
14:09 Speaker 00 Maybe we'll get one one time and just see what it looks like. After receiving several tips about a man who raped and attempted to murder an eight-year-old, Detective Craig Robinson decided to look into Al Kala as a possible suspect in the Samso case and went to Riverside to obtain his mugshot. After comparing the mugshot to the composite sketch, Robinson announced Al Kala as a person of interest. So obviously he did look a lot like the composite sketch. Witnesses at the beach on the day Robin disappeared also identified Al Kala in a photo lineup. On July 2nd, Robin's body was found in a remote mountain ravine by a member of a Forest Service
14:54 Speaker 00 spraying crew. She was found about 40 miles from where she was last seen. Animals had scavenged her remains. Her skull was separated from her neck. Her lower teeth were fractured in a manner consistent with a blow from a hard object. A kitchen knife was found nearby that had a minute drop of human blood on it. Type unknown. A beach towel was found nearby with type A stains on it. Type A blood was also mixed with rocks and leaves in the area. The only article of clothing found at the scene was a single tennis shoe with the name Robin on it.
15:35 Speaker 01 So sad.
15:36 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, we're talking about a 12 year old girl here.
15:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:40 Speaker 00 And, you know, the description is, is rough, right? Skull separated from the neck, lower teeth fracture. Now, some of that could have been done by animals while they were scavenging. But the teeth, they made it sound like that came from an actual blow.
16:03 Speaker 01 Right.
16:04 Speaker 00 With some type of object. So just imagining that, you know, is cringe worthy. According to People vs. Alcala, due to the advanced decomposition, it was impossible to determine the time and cause of death and whether Robin had been sexually assaulted. Rodney Alcala's former parole officer also saw the composite sketch and called the police, suggesting they take a look at him. At the time, he was still living with his mother in Monterey Park, close to the mountains where Robin was found. So multiple people, Gibbs, saw this composite sketch and their first thought was, oh, that looks like Rodney Alcala.
16:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:49 Speaker 00 So I think two things. One, the people who gave the descriptions were very accurate. And two, the artist was very good at turning that into a sketch based on, on their description.
17:08 Speaker 01 To me, that's just a total talent to be able to do something like that.
17:12 Speaker 00 Yeah, it is because I can't draw anything. And so anybody who can really draw, I'm amazed by. But when you think of these sketch artists, okay, they're not, you know, Bob Ross-ing it, right? They're not drawing a little happy tree here and a happy tree over here. They're having to try to recreate a real person, not ever having seen this person, only based on what people are telling them.
17:45 Speaker 01 It'd be so difficult to do.
17:48 Speaker 00 Not to besmirch Bob Ross in any way, because, you know, he was awesome.
17:53 Speaker 01 And he had that hair that you just wish you could have.
17:57 Speaker 00 Loved it. I mean, everybody loved the guy.
18:00 Speaker 01 He is Bob Ross.
18:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, I said that.
18:05 Speaker 00 On July 8th, Alcala told his girlfriend Elizabeth Keller that he wanted to move to Dallas to broaden his career opportunities. On July 11th, he rented a storage unit in Seattle, Washington. The next day, he returned to LA to see Elizabeth and tell her he would be moving to Texas permanently on July 24th. That very day, the police showed up at his home with a warrant. Alcala was booked on suspicion of murder and had his bail set at $250,000. Okay. You know, the first time it was 10,000. His mother paid it. They upped
18:45 Speaker 00 it to 250,000. I mean, I think at the very least, you gotta make it tougher for this guy to get back out on the street.
18:53 Speaker 01 Oh, for sure.
18:54 Speaker 00 Rodney attempted to give an alibi after he was arrested. He claimed that at the time Robin disappeared, he was at Knott's Berry Farm in Buena Park, applying for a job as a photographer for a disco contest.
19:09 Speaker 01 Disco?
19:11 Speaker 00 I mean, this whole thing is very 70s.
19:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:15 Speaker 00 I've never been to Knott's Berry Farm. I've heard of it. It's pretty iconic. I don't even know if it's still around. But a photographer for a disco contest. Disco, it doesn't get much more 70s than disco.
19:30 Speaker 01 But I have a feeling that you know how to disco.
19:33 Speaker 00 Well, I did consult a little bit on Saturday Night Fever. I was only like four, but I think I did a pretty good job.
19:40 Speaker 01 Probably with a little point the finger in the sky.
19:43 Speaker 00 Yep, that's where it came from. Alcala's sister Maria Christine came to visit him in jail. Their conversation was recorded. At one point, Rodney told her he had a storage locker in Seattle that the police didn't know about. He asked her to clear it out for him. We've talked about this many, many times. I have these people know they're not being recorded. I mean, I think it's even more perplexing today with all the technology, the signs even say, hey, your calls are recorded and all of that, but. But it didn't really matter because the police had already found a receipt for a storage unit in Seattle during the search of the house.
20:26 Speaker 00 On July 25th, an officer drove to Maria's home. She and her mother provided alibis for Alcala on multiple occasions where he was witnessed elsewhere. And that's one of the real issues I have with alibis. You know, it comes up in a lot of cases where, you know, mom alibis her son. Yeah, he was home with me all night. Well, that could be true.
20:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:52 Speaker 00 Or it could be a mom who doesn't want to see her son get in trouble. It could be a girlfriend who doesn't want to see her boyfriend get in trouble. Alibis are a tricky thing, especially when it's just somebody's word.
21:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:09 Speaker 00 It's not a time stamped picture or a video or clocking in at work. And even that one can be faked as we've seen in some cases.
21:21 Speaker 01 But you know, mom will probably always try to protect her kid.
21:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, I get that. Now, you shouldn't lie, but
21:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:31 Speaker 00 The parental instinct is very powerful.
21:35 Speaker 01 It is. It really is.
21:37 Speaker 00 Now, where I start to draw the line is when you call me at like midnight and say, "Hey, I can't go into the details, but I was with you all night if anyone asks." Luckily, no one ever has because I'm not going to jail for you. I'm just saying that right now.
21:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, you're going to say the truth, huh?
22:02 Speaker 00 I don't know what I will say if it comes to that. Maybe, I don't know what he's done, but you should definitely take a look at him.
22:11 Speaker 01 Did you ever go out to that piece of property he owns out?
22:17 Speaker 00 Also, make sure you search his vehicle thoroughly because he has a lot of hidden compartments.
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24:33 Speaker 00 Quality pieces without the luxury price tag. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was true crime all the time. It's the best way to support the show. That day, officers returned to the house to search for the storage unit receipt they saw the day before, but they couldn't find it. Police obtained a warrant for the unit and flew to Seattle search. Inside the storage locker, investigators found hundreds of photos of women, girls and boys.
25:18 Speaker 00 Many of them nude photos. Underneath all of the other items was a small silk bag full of earrings. Alcala claimed they were his, but when the police showed the jewelry to Robin's mother, she recognized a pair of her gold studs. Robin liked to borrow.
25:36 Speaker 01 I'm just wondering if this was his sister Marie that went there. You got there before the police and you opened this up and you seen all this stuff. How do you feel about your brother at that moment?
25:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, maybe you're a little bit less inclined to stick with some of the alibis that you've given. I mean, okay, somebody has photos, naked photos of adult women. You know, you can make of that what you will, but naked photos of young girls and boys. There's really no getting around that. There's no explanation for that. Investigators also found a pair of rose shaped earrings that had DNA on them, which would later become a key piece of evidence.
26:21 Speaker 01 So this is the problem with these serial killers. You've mentioned it several times before, they like to keep trophies.
26:27 Speaker 00 And it can, a lot of the time, lead to their downfall. Right? Because you're basically saying, okay, here's all the evidence that I killed, you know, this many people. When you think about having or keeping people's driver's license or, you know, things that can ultimately.
26:51 Speaker 00 Have DNA on them. That's never going to work out good for you in the end. On July 28th, Alcala pleaded not guilty to kidnapping, committing a lewd or lascivious act upon a child under 14, murder and robbery. Okay, so these are very serious charges, right? Kidnapping, murder. Now, the, the lewd or lascivious act upon a child under 14, you would think would be a very serious charge. Unfortunately, it seemed back then that, you know, people weren't held accountable as much for those types of acts as they should have been.
27:33 Speaker 00 In October 1979, Alcala was supposed to appear in court for the attack on Monique Coy in Riverside, but she was deemed unfit to testify and required to undergo psychiatric evaluation. And that's something that we don't talk about a lot. You know, many times you're discussing the mental health of the killer or the attacker. But what about what happens to the victims emotionally? We know there's physical harm a lot of the time, but the emotional and mental after effects.
28:15 Speaker 00 In this case, you know, she's not able to even testify against him because of what she went through.
28:23 Speaker 01 It just makes me hurt for her.
28:25 Speaker 00 Yeah.
28:25 Speaker 01 About that.
28:26 Speaker 00 Oh, you feel horrible. You can imagine her possibly reliving, you know, this traumatic event over and over and over, and you can only wonder what that would do to somebody. Rodney Alcala's murder trial started on March 6th, 1980. Despite a lack of forensic evidence, prosecutors sought to prove he was the man who kidnapped and murdered Robin Sampson. A deputy coroner testified that Robin's remains were chewed by animals, which accounted for their scattered and mutilated state. However, a forensic dentist opined that chips in the lower teeth.
29:07 Speaker 00 Were likely produced by forceful contact with a blunt object, whether before or after death. And again, we talked about it earlier, but to me, that's very important. You know, when all you have is skeletal remains. And when those skeletal remains are scavenged by, you know, predator animals, I think the defense has a lot of room to work. Well, how do you know this was an injury sustained versus something done by an animal postmortem? But this thought that her teeth were knocked out by a blunt object or blunt force trauma
29:52 Speaker 00 rather than something done by animals is a big deal.
29:57 Speaker 01 It is.
29:59 Speaker 00 The prosecution presented witnesses who helped establish Alcala's pattern of approaching young women for photos. 15-year-old Tony Asparza and 14-year-old Joanne Merkland testified that they were at Huntington Beach on June 19th, 1979. A man they both identified as Rodney Alcala asked to take their pictures for a bikini photo contest.
30:26 Speaker 01 It's his thing, right? He's just trying to get in front of these girls.
30:31 Speaker 00 And, you know, the thing about Rodney is I just, I get the sense that he's just out trolling, right? He has a camera and he's just out looking for young girls who I'm assuming he finds attractive. And then he's going to approach them with this ruse. And it can probably vary, but it's all around him taking their picture.
30:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:00 Speaker 00 Whether it's to getting to acting or in this case for a bikini photo contest.
31:07 Speaker 01 Did you ever tell the story on here about that Speedo photo contest you ran when you were in college?
31:14 Speaker 00 I don't know that I have told that one. Unfortunately, I was disqualified because my Speedo was not big enough.
31:24 Speaker 00 You weren't expecting that one, were you?
31:28 Speaker 00 See, he tried to set me up and that's your downfall. He offered them a ride in marijuana and tried to get their phone numbers. The girls later contacted the police when they saw him on the news. 15 year old Lori Wertz testified that she had a similar experience with Alcala on June 20th, 1970 at Sunset Beach. Police found her photo in the Seattle storage lot. Lori recalled the encounter to 2020 years later, saying, "He was asking me all kinds of questions like where I'm from, my name, my age. He tried really hard to get me in the car. He tried to get me in the car and leave my friend on the beach.
32:12 Speaker 00 She refused and saw him drive towards Huntington Beach." And like the question you're always asking, Gibbs, you know, what is Lori thinking? That many years later, after all the details about Rodney Alcala come out, I can only assume she's thinking, "If I had gotten into that car, I might not be around now to even tell this story."
32:36 Speaker 01 So, you know, he has this chest of pictures. Sounds like some of them were the ones that he killed. And some of the pictures were from the women, girls, that either got away or did not get in the vehicle with them and, you know.
32:52 Speaker 00 Right. The ruse didn't work on them, but he still took their picture. And that's, you know, the big part of this case, right? So many pictures and they haven't yet, and we'll get into it more as we go along, but they haven't yet been able to identify everyone. So they don't know if some of these women are still alive or if some of them are dead.
33:14 Speaker 01 Just creepy to think about that. If you were her, one of these women, girls, this guy's got your picture.
33:21 Speaker 00 And, and what's he doing with it?
33:23 Speaker 01 Exactly.
33:23 Speaker 00 And, you know, it's just stuff you don't even want to think about. In court, Robin's friend Bridget Wolfert identified Al Kala as the photographer. Jackie Young also confirmed her previous identification. A key witness was Dana Crappa, a Forest Service worker who was a member of the spraying crew that found Robin's body on July 2nd. According to People versus Al Kala, Dana had been uncooperative in interviews and was evasive at the preliminary hearing. Most of what she said at trial was new, and she seemed to be distressed on the witness stand. She previously admitted to almost getting into a collision with a distinctive Datsun
34:08 Speaker 00 like the one Al Kala had on the evening of June 21st, 1979. The Datsun was parked at Rondi Vu Turnout, less than a mile from the crime scene. Beside the car was a man wearing Levi's and a stained shirt. His car appeared to have dirt kicked up under the tires. Crappa confirmed these details at trial, but she revealed that she saw the same Datsun the previous evening between 5:00 and 5:30 PM. The June 20th sighting occurred at Marker 11, a turnout less than 300 feet from where Robin was found. She saw two people, a man and a small girl, with their backs turned to her.
34:52 Speaker 00 The girl had long blond hair, like Robin. They were walking up the ravine away from the road. The man was sort of forcefully steering the girl. This is according to Dana. Crappa could not see whether he was touching her or holding a weapon. The man turned and looked straight through Dana. She thought something might be wrong, but continued on. And this, you know, testimony, it almost gives me the chills because you can only surmise. That she was potentially seeing Rodney with Robin Samso.
35:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:32 Speaker 00 Shortly before she was killed and her body dumped.
35:37 Speaker 01 Nightmarish.
35:38 Speaker 00 At the preliminary hearing, Crappa testified that the June 21st sighting occurred between 10:00 and 10:30 PM. But at trial, she changed the time to 8:00 to 8:30 PM. She also testified for the first time that she returned to Marker 11 between 7:00 and 7:30 on the evening of June 25th and walked up the ravine with a flashlight. According to People vs. Alcala, with extreme difficulty, the prosecutor elicited that she had discovered a body. Part of the face was gone and the body was unclothed and pretty cut up. The hands and feet were missing, but she couldn't say whether they had been cut off
36:24 Speaker 00 and couldn't remember whether the legs were hacked up. The head was next to the body and she couldn't tell if it was severed. Nearby, she saw a blue and yellow shoe and what looked like shorts and a t-shirt. She did not see a knife. There were tire tracks in the area. She was horrified and left, but she told no one what she saw. So we, you know, talked about the finding of these remains and the state they were in. But this testimony provides a lot more detail, right? If this is true and she is finding Robin's body,
37:07 Speaker 00 she's able to give quite a bit more detail than what authorities could gather from the skeletal remains alone. And let's face it, they're gruesome.
37:18 Speaker 01 Very gruesome. Informative.
37:20 Speaker 00 Yes. Yeah, both. But then there's this part, you know, about her leaving and not telling anyone. And you just wonder why that is. I mean, what goes through your mind? You see a dead body, the scene is and would be absolutely disturbing. Why not call the police? Kind of a mystery, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, is there some fear that they might think you had something to do with this? You know, are you going to have to explain why you're out late at night with a flashlight searching this ravine? Yeah, probably. Four days later, she was part of the spring crew. When her coworker, William Pepke, came upon a pile of bones.
38:05 Speaker 00 He thought the remains were deer, so he picked up a bone and threw it at her. However, she knew it wasn't a deer. That night, she returned to the scene. Her flashlight caught on a shiny object. She thought it was a knife. She also saw the body and found blond hair. The shorts, t-shirt and tennis shoe were still there. Three days later, Pepke found the skull and the police were called. So, you know, to me, this is, it's just fascinating because it wasn't just once. It was twice that, you know, she went out on her own, late with a flashlight to check on this body. Yeah.
38:47 Speaker 00 Now, the first time she went out, there was still some body there. And then eventually it was just skeletal remains. But it sounds like that process happened fairly quickly. Seemed like it. Robin's mother, Mary Ann Combe, confirmed that the earrings found in the storage locker looked like a pair Robin likely borrowed from her. It'd also been missing since Robin disappeared. Orange County inmate, Robert Dove, testified that he overheard a conversation between Al Calla and inmate, Michael Herrera. According to Dove, Al Calla denied stabbing Robin and claimed he had only slapped her unconscious.
39:29 Speaker 00 Al Calla later told Dove himself, "Nobody seen me take her." He also said he would never be convicted without the film and the bike, and the police would not find the bike. And I think, you know, everyone's always leery about jailhouse informants. Right. But let's just say this guy's telling the truth. And what Rodney Alcala said was true. He said he would never be convicted without the film and the bike. And the police would not find the bike. So that means to me that somewhere he had pictures of Robin Sampson
40:11 Speaker 00 that he had taken, which would help tie him to her. And then this bike, obviously in his mind, would also tie him to the murder. In a conversation about photography, Alcala said he liked to go to a place in the mountains near water towers where you could see city lights. He also mentioned Big Tahunga Canyon. According to People versus Alcala, the crime scene was in Santa Anita Canyon, but it was near water towers and city lights are visible from the road nearby. Michael Herrera testified that Alcala said he had talked to a lawyer
40:52 Speaker 00 who thought the case was weak because it's no crime to take pictures at the beach. And there was no positive identification.
41:01 Speaker 01 I guess you could say, okay, you're allowed to do that. But it's still creepy, taking pictures of multiple young women.
41:09 Speaker 00 Some of whom later wind up found dead.
41:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:14 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's creepy. I mean, you also have to couple the, what they find in the storage ship.
41:19 Speaker 01 That's true.
41:20 Speaker 00 Right. All these pictures of young girls and boys, some of them nude. All right, what's this guy into?
41:31 Speaker 00 Alcala told Herrera he got Robin into his car by offering to pay her for some magazine photos that wouldn't take long. He told her he would drop her off where she needed to go. He had some trouble getting her bike into the car. Once they were driving, he locked Robin's car door. He was evasive about the route he took, but talked about the Pacific Coast Highway. Herrera indicated that he thought Robin was worried, scared, and wanted to get out of the car. At some point, Alcala asked Robin if she had ever posed nude. Robin was crying and Alcala started slapping the shit out of her. It was a weird situation and a trip.
42:16 Speaker 00 Now, you know, these are quotes, right? So.
42:19 Speaker 01 I mean, again, she's 12 years old.
42:21 Speaker 00 Yeah. Who, what 12 year old wouldn't be scared? Because at some point, Gibbs, she had to realize that this situation wasn't what she thought it was. Okay, he wants some pictures for, you know, a magazine. He's going to pay me for those. He's also going to drop me off at some point during that car ride. The realization has to set in. Either we're not going the right way. Or now he's asking me these questions about whether I've posed nude. You know, uncomfortable is, is not strong enough a word.
43:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:07 Speaker 00 Had to have been downright frightening.
43:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, be freaking out.
43:12 Speaker 00 Robin lost consciousness and Alcala thought about taking her to some mountains. Herrera remembered the name San Gaber. Alcala decided to leave her where she was. He later abandoned the bike behind a thrifty drugstore or Thrifty Mart or some kind of thrift store. He denied shooting or stabbing Robin during this conversation with Herrera. So again, right? All of this is coming from Michael Herrera. We have no idea whether or not he was offered or any of the informants were offered anything for their testimony.
43:52 Speaker 01 But he's got a lot of details.
43:54 Speaker 00 He does.
43:54 Speaker 01 If they're real.
43:56 Speaker 00 The bike Robin borrowed from her friend was never found, but the manager of a charity thrift store in El Monte testified, he found a yellow bicycle with turned up handlebars behind the store in July 1979, which he sold. At trial, the jury was allowed to hear evidence regarding the attempted murder of Tali Shapiro in 1968 and the kidnapping and rape of Monique Coy in 1979. This was meant to show that Alcala had a history of luring young girls into his car, taking them to isolated places and subjecting them to forced sexual activity and violence.
44:38 Speaker 01 Well, telling those two stories should have helped that out immensely.
44:44 Speaker 00 Yeah, but you know, it's interesting because a lot of times that type of stuff is not let in at trial, like prior acts isn't always allowed in.
44:54 Speaker 01 And if it is, it can be used, you know, an appeal action later, attempt.
45:00 Speaker 00 And I get it, the law is the law, but you know, to me, what somebody has done in their past, and you know, especially when it relates to the charge they're currently facing.
45:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:15 Speaker 00 It seems like the jury should know about that, but I get it, you know, legally, maybe it's, it's not allowed all the time.
45:22 Speaker 01 Is it, they don't want the jury to be prejudiced against?
45:24 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, but you know, if this guy has a history of luring young girls into his car, seems like that's something that should be part of the case, but.
45:34 Speaker 01 I agree with you.
45:35 Speaker 00 Witness Tim Fallon testified for the defense that on June 21st, the day after Robin disappeared, he saw her riding a yellow bike in Huntington Beach, 20 minutes before a police officer showed him her picture. He felt sure she was wearing a white t-shirt, but all other witnesses said she was wearing red. When asked to compare Robin's photo with that of another blonde girl, he identified them as the same person. The defense sought to cast suspicion on a man named Raul Vasquez. Sierra Madre Police Officer Gerald Crawford described his encounter with Vasquez.
46:16 Speaker 00 At 11:15 PM on June 22nd at the marker 11 turnout in the mountains Crawford said that Vasquez was walking toward the roof from the ravine Crawford asked what he was doing and Vasquez said he was relieving himself and waiting for his girlfriend. He didn't give his name when asked Crawford patted him down and found a heavy wrench in his back pocket. The guy seemed shaky nervous and upset as though he didn't want the officer to find something in his car or in the area. The left rear passenger window of Vasquez's car was broken out and a large beach towel
46:57 Speaker 00 covered the backseat. There was broken glass on the rear seat floor and a six pack of beer on the front floorboard.
47:05 Speaker 01 I'm kind of picturing the car in Pulp Fiction after they cleaned it up.
47:11 Speaker 00 You mean after they, after John Travolta accidentally shot that guy in the face?
47:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:16 Speaker 00 But you know, this is a very interesting encounter, right? Marker 11, this turnout, we said it, it was very close to where Robin's remains were found. This guy seems, at least according to the police officer, nervous. Like he doesn't want him to discover something. And my thought is unless you're just a slob or you know, you put things off, this broken glass on the rear seat of the floor probably happened pretty recently.
47:55 Speaker 01 Yeah. You know that feeling when you're around somebody that you know they're trying to hide something with kids.
48:01 Speaker 00 Oh, kids especially.
48:03 Speaker 01 You learn that pretty, pretty early when they start trying to hide things from you and you're like, I know. You guys have done something.
48:11 Speaker 00 Or, or like when one of them eats a cookie and you ask them about it and they say, no, I didn't eat a cookie, but there's chocolate all over their face. Cause they're terrible at lying. The prosecution called on rebuttal witness, Robert Rose, who owned the body shop where Vasquez worked in June 1979. Vasquez's time card showed he worked full days on June 20th through the 22nd and always left after 5pm. The defense called Alcala's sister, Maria Christine, as an alibi witness. She stated that he was at her home near Montebello at 4:30pm on June 20th.
48:52 Speaker 00 His sister, Maria Tawano testified that Alcala called her at her home in Fremont at 5:54pm on June 20th. Her bill showed that a call was made to her number from Alcala's home in Monterey Park. Alcala's former girlfriend, Elizabeth Kelleher, testified that Alcala made a one-minute call to her home at 9:15pm on June 21st and left a message. This call appeared on his bill. She called him back at 10:08pm and they talked for 19 minutes.
49:28 Speaker 01 So establishing some timeline, right?
49:30 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, and I think it's all important for the defense in trying to prove that, well, he, he couldn't have done this because he's at his home at this time. He's making calls at, at this time. As mentioned, Alcala lived with his mother, Anna Maria, in Monterey Park. She denied making either the Fremont call or the call to Elizabeth Keller. She admitted that many of the Fremont calls on their bill were hers and that she had spoken by phone with Elizabeth on a number of occasions since Alcala's arrest. She also conceded that her daughter, Maria Christine, often used her phone.
50:13 Speaker 00 So I think what you have there, you know, is the prosecution coming back and saying, well, he wasn't the only one at the home. Actually, it wasn't even his house. How hard would it have been for his mom or, you know, one of his sisters, possibly, to have made some of those calls?
50:35 Speaker 01 I mean, it's a valid point.
50:37 Speaker 00 And it goes back to the, the talking point of, you know, what would family be willing to do? As far as it relates to, you know, giving their loved one an alibi. The defense also concentrated on discrediting witness Dana Crappa. William Pepke testified that just after their first payday as firefighters, he cooked a pizza dinner for Crappa. She mentioned she had just had a near accident at rendezvous turnout. They received their first checks on June 13th or 14th. And June 21st was in the middle of a pay period. Crappa never mentioned another accident and they both agreed the incident must have occurred
51:22 Speaker 00 during the first two weeks of June. Under cross-examination, Crappa testified that her reluctance to come forward about finding the body was caused by overwhelming feelings of horror, guilt, denial, and depression. She had recurring nightmares that were not identical in details, which made her concerned they had confused her memories. She wanted to be certain of her facts before she went to the police.
51:51 Speaker 01 I mean, nothing wrong with that.
51:52 Speaker 00 No, but again, you know, we're questioning everybody. I think you have to question her as well. What she is saying could be absolutely a hundred percent true. It could explain why she didn't go to police right after, you know, she first discovered the body. But again, she also didn't call the police after the second time. So exactly what did she need, Gibbs, to be certain of the facts before she went to police, I guess is my question.
52:25 Speaker 01 Makes me wonder. Probably made a few people wonder why such a delay?
52:30 Speaker 00 And I get it, you know, could you have these feelings? Yeah. How could you not have some type of feelings about finding a body? But would those cause you, you know, not to call the police? The defense sought to show that much of her testimony was confabulated due to improper police interrogation methods that played upon her confusion and emotional turmoil. Defense and prosecution experts gave conflicting views on whether the interview tapes suggested Crappa was brainwashed or led to false memories.
53:08 Speaker 00 And again, shocking that defense and prosecution experts would give conflicting testimony or have conflicting views. I mean, that's basically what a trial is, right? When it comes to expert testimony.
53:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:27 Speaker 00 Every now and then there's a curve ball and everybody on both sides agrees on something. But that is so very rare.
53:36 Speaker 01 And you typically hope they agree with your side.
53:39 Speaker 00 Both parties?
53:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:40 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah. Obviously you do. Finally, the defense called on inmate Joseph Drake, who insisted Alcala had given no information while in jail awaiting trial. According to Drake, he, Dove and Herrera fabricated Alcala's admissions based on TV and newspaper reports as part of a plan to get a deal.
54:02 Speaker 01 There we go.
54:03 Speaker 00 And again, that's why people are so leery of these jailhouse informant confession type things. On April 30th, 1980, Rodney Alcala was found guilty of first degree murder and kidnapping. On May 8th, the jury voted for the death penalty. On June 20th, 1980, a judge upheld the jury's verdict and sentenced Alcala to death. On July 11th, Rodney Alcala was charged with the June 1979 murder of Jill Parente. As we mentioned, two types of blood were found in Jill's apartment. One type was Jill's.
54:43 Speaker 00 The other matched Alcala to a degree that would eliminate 90% of people.
54:49 Speaker 01 Pretty good.
54:50 Speaker 00 It's, it's good for the time. Now, obviously today. That elimination would be, or identification would be one in trillions, probably. But they were dealing with the technology they had at the time. Investigators also said that Alcala met Jill at a bar and danced with her, but she rejected him when he tried to date her. She reportedly told friends that she began to receive obscene phone calls. A check of Alcala's whereabouts showed that the call stopped when he was out of town.
55:27 Speaker 01 He was just a monster.
55:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, and we're not even done, right? Talking about the things that he did, but I think we know he murdered a number of people. But I think he terrorized a lot of people that he didn't kill. You and I have talked about obscene phone calls, what they can do, the type of psychological damage that can result from them. In September 1980, Alcala was convicted of the 1979 rape of Monique Hoyt in Riverside and sentenced to nine years in prison. In April 1981, the murder case of Jill Parente was dismissed
56:11 Speaker 00 due to the discrediting of the only witness linking Alcala and Parente. The witness had committed perjury in an unrelated case. Now, you talk about a technicality, I get it. If you perjured yourself in one case, it's gonna make it pretty tough for people to be able to rely on you in another. But if what the person had to say was actually true, then, you know, he really skirted this one based off of a technicality.
56:45 Speaker 01 Sure did.
56:46 Speaker 00 Three years later, on August 23rd, 1984, the California Supreme Court reversed Alcala's conviction, ruling that the jury was improperly informed about his prior sex crimes. And that's why we brought that up, right? It happens quite a bit. Either it's ruled ahead of time that that information is not going to be allowed in. Or, as you rightly pointed out, a higher jury comes along later and says it was improper. And in this case, you know, they overturned his conviction. I'm still of the mindset that I felt like the jury deserves to know about it, but I get it legally.
57:31 Speaker 00 Apparently in, in a lot of places they, they don't and shouldn't.
57:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, I guess they want them just to focus on the case for that time.
57:42 Speaker 00 Yes. Yeah. The court said that the information about Al Kala's past had an inflammatory impact on the jury. And there were not enough similarities between the earlier attacks and the Samso murder to waive the general rule that prosecutors may not refer to a defendant's criminal past. And maybe the judge in the case thought there was at the time and a higher court just didn't see it that way.
58:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:09 Speaker 00 So prosecutors would have to try Al Kala a second time to keep him in prison for good. In part three of the Rodney Al Kala episodes, we'll cover his second murder trial and the long path to securing justice for the victims as well as additional cases linked to Al Kala in recent years. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I think you said it, right? This, this guy, he was a monster and we're not done talking about, you know, what a monster he is. And there's also a lot that is unknown about Rodney Al Kala because of all these photographs.
58:54 Speaker 00 Were some of these? People who just allowed him to take photographs, maybe for money, but he didn't do anything to them.
59:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, or maybe because the opportunity wasn't there.
59:08 Speaker 00 Or I think in, in some cases, they've never been able to figure out either who these people are, or if they, if they could figure out who they are, they don't know what happened to them.
59:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:22 Speaker 00 So.
59:23 Speaker 01 Maybe they were a victim.
59:24 Speaker 00 That makes a lot of people think that, you know, his victim count is so much higher than what is really, no.
59:32 Speaker 01 I also think he used these photos for his scouting.
59:37 Speaker 00 Maybe, I mean, as like a portfolio.
59:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:40 Speaker 00 That could be the case, but it also could be what a lot of serial killers do. They use these mementos and things to kind of relive,
59:53 Speaker 00 maybe gain sexual gratification from them or, or whatever. But that's it for our second episode on Rodney Alcala. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?
1:00:05 Speaker 01 Let's hear it.
1:00:06 Speaker 02 Hey, um, first time caller. I just started listening in March and I've got a few episodes left. My fiance actually got me into the show. Um, actually had, um, a, uh, episode suggestion. Um, I'm originally from, uh, Dawsonville, Georgia. I live in Maine. Uh, but the first crime that really like hooked me was, uh, the case of Meredith Emerson. Uh, she disappeared like five minutes from my house. Her body was found within two miles of my middle school. Um, turns out she was killed by a serial killer. Just thought it'd be a really good case suggestion. Um, oh, I totally forgot. Uh, my name's Abby. Um, my fiance's name's Brandon. He got me into the show.
1:00:49 Speaker 02 He told me for like six months, listen to these guys. They're really good. And yeah, I'm hooked. But yeah, just figured I'd throw in a case suggestion and yeah, that's it. Um, honestly, not a Mike or a Gibby fan. I'm a T cat fan and yeah, keep your head on the swivel. Keep your own time ticking. Bye.
1:01:07 Speaker 01 You know, I could kind of hear she's kind of a Gibby fan. She just was apprehensive about saying it.
1:01:14 Speaker 00 And hurting my feelings.
1:01:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:16 Speaker 00 I know that's the way you feel about all callers who say that.
1:01:19 Speaker 01 Well, you know.
1:01:20 Speaker 00 But we appreciate the voicemail and the fact that you did take the time and we'll put that on the list. Also, you know, thanks to the boyfriend.
1:01:30 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
1:01:31 Speaker 00 For recommending you the show and that kind of stuff really helps us out.
1:01:37 Speaker 01 He's got a pretty high IQ, I can tell.
1:01:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, you're drawing a lot of inferences from this very short voicemail.
1:01:44 Speaker 01 I, I, I'm.
1:01:45 Speaker 00 Sherlock.
1:01:49 Speaker 00 So Gibbs, we had, actually had a lot of mailbag.
1:01:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:52 Speaker 00 This week. We haven't had any for quite a while.
1:01:54 Speaker 01 We haven't.
1:01:55 Speaker 00 Mike Walston sent a Harley chip that escaped from the envelope.
1:01:59 Speaker 01 Oh, you hate when that happens.
1:02:00 Speaker 00 I do. There was a hole about the exact size of a Harley chip.
1:02:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:05 Speaker 00 But appreciate the effort. Absolutely. And then Susan sent you a St. Louis Cardinal jersey that she said she thought was blank, but when she got home and had the name Gibby on it.
1:02:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:20 Speaker 00 And I think there's, you know, bigger forces at play there somehow.
1:02:24 Speaker 01 That's a big mystery right there, but I thank you.
1:02:26 Speaker 00 Stephanie Barnes sent a Harley chip and Rebecca Watts sent this huge box of sweets from River Street Sweets in Savannah, Georgia.
1:02:36 Speaker 01 Nice.
1:02:37 Speaker 00 Yeah, they're awesome. Also, my future son-in-law and his family, they lived in Savannah.
1:02:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:44 Speaker 00 So my daughter's been down there. They've actually visited this place.
1:02:47 Speaker 01 Oh, really?
1:02:48 Speaker 00 And they like it.
1:02:49 Speaker 01 So they knew about it?
1:02:49 Speaker 00 Yeah, they knew about it. So when they saw the box, they were really excited.
1:02:54 Speaker 01 You're saying they tapped into it?
1:02:56 Speaker 00 Well, that's a given.
1:02:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's true.
1:02:58 Speaker 00 With my daughter and my wife.
1:03:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:01 Speaker 00 There, there's no sweets that are gonna go unaccounted for.
1:03:04 Speaker 01 There you go.
1:03:06 Speaker 00 All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike.
1:03:11 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
1:03:11 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
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