Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Long Island Serial Killer Part 1 About this episode In episode 500 of True Crime All The Time, Mike and Gibby begin their deep dive into the infamous Long Island Serial Killer case, one of the most disturbing and consequential serial murder investigations in American history.
Join Mike and Gibby for part 1 of the Long Island Serial Killer case as they focus on the disappearance of Shannan Gilbert, the shocking discoveries along Gilgo Beach, and the stories of the women later known as the “Gilgo Four.”
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Transcript 0:39 Speaker 00 Hello everyone and welcome to episode 500 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
0:49 Speaker 01 Doing good, man. How about you?
0:50 Speaker 00 I'm doing great.
0:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:52 Speaker 00 Uh, for those watching on video, you can see our, our new sign in the studio.
0:57 Speaker 01 Very nice.
0:57 Speaker 00 That a lot of people have been asking for, finally figured out a good place to do it that could replicate kind of the logo, uh, font that we have.
1:05 Speaker 01 It's okay. You can say I handmade it in my garage.
1:08 Speaker 00 Oh yeah. Gibby blew it. He blew all that glass.
1:14 Speaker 00 In his garage.
1:15 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
1:16 Speaker 00 Oh, all right, buddy. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Brianna Jeanette.
1:20 Speaker 01 What's going on Jeanette?
1:22 Speaker 00 Aaron Groff.
1:23 Speaker 01 Hey, Aaron.
1:24 Speaker 00 Lindsay Chandler.
1:25 Speaker 01 Thanks Lindsay.
1:26 Speaker 00 Megan and Teddy.
1:27 Speaker 01 What's going on Megan, Teddy?
1:28 Speaker 00 Ainsley.
1:29 Speaker 01 Hey Ainsley.
1:30 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Robin Jennings.
1:32 Speaker 01 The Jennings.
1:33 Speaker 00 The Jennings. And then if we go back into the vault. This week we selected Don Park.
1:39 Speaker 01 Thanks DP. Love some DP.
1:40 Speaker 00 Yeah. Uh, we have a, a brand new episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about 18-year-old Justin Gaines. He was last seen outside of a bar. He was just a few months into his freshman year of college and this is a, a fascinating case because there are multiple people who have kind of said that they were involved in his murder in some way or another.
2:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:07 Speaker 00 But it's almost like so many people have inserted themselves, the water is too muddy.
2:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:14 Speaker 00 Is what it makes it seem like.
2:16 Speaker 01 But I feel like it's all going to get connected.
2:18 Speaker 00 Yes.
2:19 Speaker 01 And come together here.
2:20 Speaker 00 I do too.
2:21 Speaker 01 Sooner than we think.
2:22 Speaker 00 I think this one will be solved for sure. All right, buddy. So we're doing something a little different. We're doing a big case for 500.
2:29 Speaker 01 You are.
2:30 Speaker 00 Gilgo Beach, Long Island Serial Killer. It's known by many names and it's a huge case that that most people know about. But there's a lot of info. It's going to take us four parts.
2:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:42 Speaker 00 We're doing them all on both audio and video. And we're putting them out Sunday, Thursday, Sunday, Thursday. So people don't have to wait as long.
2:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's how we roll.
2:53 Speaker 00 That's how we're rolling now.
2:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:55 Speaker 00 So let's dive right in.
2:57 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:58 Speaker 00 Are you ready to get into this 500th episode of True Crime All Time?
3:04 Speaker 01 Let's think about that for a second.
3:05 Speaker 00 It's hard.
3:05 Speaker 01 500 episodes, we've been doing this.
3:08 Speaker 00 It's hard to believe that we, coming from where we did when we started, that we are now on episode 500.
3:16 Speaker 01 I think how long it took you to finally pull your weight.
3:19 Speaker 00 Yeah. And start doing my part of the show.
3:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:23 Speaker 00 So the case of one missing woman led the police to multiple bodies on the South Shore of Long Island. The investigation started when a woman named Shannon Gilbert called 911 in the early morning hours of May 1st, 2010. Shannon was panicked, telling the operator that someone was after her. But by the time police arrived, she was gone. In December 2010, an officer was searching for Shannon on Long Island's Gilgo Beach. He didn't find Shannon, but he did find the body of a woman who went missing in July 2009. And then just days later, three more missing women were found.
4:08 Speaker 00 They became known as the Gilgo Four. You know, we, we talk about this from time to time where police are searching for one thing.
4:17 Speaker 01 Right.
4:18 Speaker 00 But they find something else. They're searching for a car and a body of water. They find four more cars. Not, not the one they're looking for.
4:26 Speaker 01 Right, exactly.
4:27 Speaker 00 But four other cars and you gotta figure out, okay, what are these cars doing here? This is a little different because they're searching for a woman and they find another woman dead.
4:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, and then they find a few more bodies.
4:40 Speaker 00 Yes. Searches of Gilgo Beach and the surrounding area continued in the spring of 2011. Six more bodies were found and none of them were Shannon Gilbert.
4:52 Speaker 01 So now we're up to 10 bodies.
4:55 Speaker 00 But still haven't found the person they initially set out to find.
4:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:00 Speaker 00 Who just happens to share the, the name of, of my wife.
5:06 Speaker 01 That's true.
5:07 Speaker 00 And spells it exactly the same and I hardly ever see it spelled this way. Two A's, an A at the end instead of an O.
5:15 Speaker 01 And that's, that, that is unique.
5:17 Speaker 00 Yeah, and that's exactly how my wife spells her name. But it turned out Gibbs, that one of the victims was a female toddler and her mother's remains were also found that spring. So I think, you know, if you're investigators and if you're the public as some, as a whole, this starts to come out. If you're investigators, you're concerned, right, that you have a, a possible serial killer and you gotta figure out what's going on. I think if you're the public, it's the same, but for a different reason.
5:51 Speaker 01 I think you're going to be scared.
5:53 Speaker 00 Yeah.
5:53 Speaker 01 You know, and rightfully so.
5:55 Speaker 00 Because who's next? And who is this serial killer, supposed serial killer? Is he living right next door to me?
6:05 Speaker 01 Is he terrorizing what part of the community?
6:08 Speaker 00 Disturbingly, some of these victims' partial remains had already been found before. One as early as 1996. The Suffolk County Police have called the Gilgo Beach case one of the most consequential homicide investigations in the history of Long Island. In 2022, a task force identified an architect named Rex Huerman as the Long Island Serial Killer, based on DNA, cellphone, and a mountain of other evidence.
6:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:43 Speaker 00 And again, like I said, this is a very well-known case. People have heard of Gilgo Beach murders. They've heard of the Long Island Serial Killer. For the longest time, it was, you know, up there as far as the most recognizable unsolved cases.
7:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:03 Speaker 00 And then obviously, when they identified this Rex Huerman guy, it kind of exploded the true crime world because people had been talking about this case, studying it for so long. You know, it was almost like Joseph D'Angelo being caught as the East Area Rapist, Golden State Killer. It was just front page news.
7:28 Speaker 01 Big time news, still is big time news.
7:30 Speaker 00 So in part one of the Long Island Serial Killer episodes, we'll cover how the investigation began, the discovery of the bodies on Gilgo Beach, the lives of the Gilgo Four, and the early suspect profile. 23-year-old Shannon Gilbert was an aspiring actress from New Jersey who did escort work via Craigslist.
7:54 Speaker 01 Okay, the old Craigslist.
7:55 Speaker 00 Yeah.
7:56 Speaker 01 I'm assuming Craigslist is still out there.
7:58 Speaker 00 I think it is. I do not think they have the same sex ads, if that's, if I'm saying that term correctly, that they used to.
8:08 Speaker 01 Okay.
8:09 Speaker 00 You know, in the past, it was a big place, I think, for escorts to advertise and there was a lot of- Of me, you know, male looking for female. I don't think they do all that stuff anymore.
8:25 Speaker 01 Okay, tone it down now, I guess.
8:26 Speaker 00 Well, because I think it started out as more of a, you know, I have something for sale or,
8:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:32 Speaker 00 You know, I got a job or, you know, something like that, but it's slowly, or maybe not slowly, quickly probably morphed into, uh, 97% sex, I think.
8:46 Speaker 01 Okay, sex, classified sex.
8:49 Speaker 00 Yeah, but I think they've gotten away from it. I don't know. I haven't been on there in a long time. On April 30th, 2010, Shannon left her home in New Jersey to meet up with her driver, Michael Pack, in Manhattan. Michael drove Shannon around the city that night. It was slow until midnight, when Shannon got a call from a client named Joseph Brewer, who lived on Oak Beach in Long Island. It was a 90 minute drive, but Brewer wanted to hire Shannon for a few hours, which would make it worth the long trip.
9:22 Speaker 01 I would, that's a long trip to go for just a couple of hours of work, but.
9:27 Speaker 00 It is, but if you're making what? I, I have no idea what an escort could or did charge in 2010.
9:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:38 Speaker 00 500, a thousand dollars an hour?
9:41 Speaker 01 I don't know.
9:41 Speaker 00 Maybe?
9:42 Speaker 01 Whatever she was getting was worth a while for her.
9:45 Speaker 00 For 90 minutes each way?
9:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:49 Speaker 00 Shannon was in Brewer's house for a few hours while Michael waited outside. At 4:51 a.m., Joseph Brewer tapped on Michael's window, telling him Shannon wouldn't leave. Michael said in a 2011 interview that Shannon looked paranoid and scared. He told her they should go back. Michael reported that Joe grabbed Shannon and she freaked out. She made a frantic call to 911 from inside Joseph Brewer's house just before 5 a.m. And the following is a partial transcript of that call that was published by 48 hours. So you have a operator saying, state police. Shannon said, yeah, there's somebody after me.
10:33 Speaker 00 These people are trying to kill me. According to NBC Brewer was heard saying at one point, come on, let's go. We'll all go outside. Shannon said, please get me out of here. Mike Shannon couldn't specify where she was, but she did say she was on Long Island. Shannon fled from Joe's house during her call. And her screams drew the attention of neighbor Gus Coletti. Coletti told 48 hours, it was like five in the morning. I was in the bathroom shaving. All of a sudden I heard screaming out here and banging on that door. Yelling, help me, help me, help me.
11:13 Speaker 00 He opened the door and asked Shannon what was wrong, but all she would say was, help me, help me, help me.
11:20 Speaker 01 Wow, scary.
11:22 Speaker 00 And it's such a strange kind of interaction. Right? Who is she afraid of? Who is she saying are these people who are trying to kill her? And then at one point she says, Mike, get me out of here.
11:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:38 Speaker 00 And we just said, Michael's out waiting in the car. I, it's, there's a lot of strangeness going on.
11:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, there's definitely a lot of moving pieces with this.
11:48 Speaker 00 So she goes next door. She's trying to get the, this neighbor's attention. Shannon was still on the phone with 911 when Coletti opened the door. So this interaction was recorded. He also called 911. According to Coletti, he said, when I said to her, I called the police. Sit down in that chair. They're on their way. She just looked at me and then she just ran out the door.
12:15 Speaker 01 Very strange.
12:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, this whole thing is strange. It's almost as if one, she is either really scared that someone has threatened her or is going to kill her, has said they were going to hurt her or. She's on drugs.
12:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:35 Speaker 00 Which is a possibility.
12:36 Speaker 01 Sure.
12:37 Speaker 00 Or I think the third possibility is she's experiencing some kind of mental health issue.
12:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. Scary either way.
12:44 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, all, all three are scary just because of the way that, that she's acting. He noticed Shannon's driver, Michael Pack, driving a black SUV in the area. He said, I could see a, a car came and stopping, coming a little bit and stopping. He spotted Shannon hiding under his boat. And then all of a sudden she ran out from under it. The driver followed her. Coletti yelled at him to stop, but he followed her. Shannon ran to the home of Coletti's neighbor, Barbara Brennan, who also called 911. Brennan said, someone, woman is knocking on my door. She says she's in danger. I'm not letting her in.
13:27 Speaker 01 So you have a lot of activity going on there with the neighbor in the neighborhood, right? And then you have, I'm sure the police are, are on the other side going, what is going on in this neighborhood?
13:38 Speaker 00 You mean on the other end of the call?
13:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:40 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, but also, you know, let's look at it from her perspective. She doesn't know any of these people.
13:49 Speaker 01 No.
13:50 Speaker 00 So she is going to random individuals' houses and knocking on the door. And the first guy says, hey, come on in, sit down. I've called the police. I mean, he, he seems to have been very non-threatening, very inviting. As far as, you know, like a, a safe person that you could trust, but for whatever reason she bolts. And then she runs to another neighbor's house. And at one point she's hiding under his boat. It's just hard to make sense of.
14:22 Speaker 01 Really is.
14:23 Speaker 00 And that's why, you, you know, it kind of takes me down the path of drug use or a mental health issue. Cause I mean, let's face it, some of this stuff just doesn't seem normal. When the police arrived at 5:40 AM, Shannon was gone. They assumed she left the area with her driver, Michael Pack. And let's talk about this, this woman who said, hey, I, I'm not letting her in. I don't blame you. First of all, it's between five and six in the morning.
14:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:55 Speaker 00 So you better have a, a damn good reason of knocking on my door that early. First of all, I'm probably not gonna wake up. My wife is, and then she's gonna say, hey, somebody's knocking on the door. You better go check it out. I am not gonna be a happy camper.
15:09 Speaker 01 No, you will not be.
15:11 Speaker 00 But on the flip side of that is it's gonna be hard for me to really take a chance that someone is telling me the truth and that they need saving. Because how many times have we seen like a real ploy being used in that manner to get into somebody's house and then, you know, things go sideways in a hurry.
15:33 Speaker 01 You mean like the movie Strangers?
15:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
15:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:36 Speaker 00 That's a, that's a great example. Again, I've said it a million times. I want to trust people.
15:42 Speaker 01 Of course.
15:43 Speaker 00 I want to trust a person who's broken down on the side of the road. I want to trust a person who knocks on my door, but can I completely? And I think the answer is no.
15:54 Speaker 01 Not today. Not today.
15:56 Speaker 00 Maybe in 1950s Pleasantville.
15:59 Speaker 01 Maybe.
15:59 Speaker 00 Where nothing went wrong, you know, but today the world is, uh, it can be a brutal place.
16:06 Speaker 01 A sinister place.
16:07 Speaker 00 But in total, Shannon's 911 call lasted over 21 minutes. But portions of that, uh, they were silent, like nothing was going on. According to former Suffolk County Chief of Detectives Dominic Verum, the police could not respond to Shannon's call because she couldn't tell them where she was.
16:29 Speaker 01 I mean, they need a location to know where to go.
16:33 Speaker 00 Now, I've always thought that they could kind of trace where the calls were coming from, but...
16:40 Speaker 01 I always thought so too.
16:41 Speaker 00 Maybe, uh, that wasn't possible at this point in time. It's 2010 though. It's not 1990. So I, I really don't know. Maybe it differs from place to place, what type of, you know, equipment they have. Not sure.
16:57 Speaker 01 How long you're on the phone with them, maybe? I don't know.
16:59 Speaker 00 Well, 21 minutes, I think is long enough.
17:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, that is a long time.
17:02 Speaker 00 If you have the ability, uh,
17:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:04 Speaker 00 Cause like in the movies, it's like, just keep them on the line for what 30, 60 seconds.
17:08 Speaker 01 Something like that.
17:09 Speaker 00 That's what we need. And the person always knows that they gotta hang up before that amount of time. Verone told 48 Hours, the complain operators asking, well, where are you? And she just kind of ignores that, where are you question? And keep saying, someone's after me. She sounds not very coherent, not very rational.
17:33 Speaker 01 Fair statement.
17:34 Speaker 00 It is, but what does that statement again, kind of lead you to? And to me, it's thinking drugs, mental health issue.
17:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:45 Speaker 00 And that's what you think of if, if someone's not coherent, they're not acting rational. It could be like one of those things, right? Verone added, it almost seems like she's in some type of psychotic state or in some type of drug induced stupor.
18:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:03 Speaker 00 So I think he's, he's thinking the exact same thing. Verone explained that the local police who responded to Gus Coletti's call were not aware of Shannon's call. And so that's interesting, right? They're both calling the same place.
18:21 Speaker 01 Right.
18:21 Speaker 00 Probably talking to two different operators. And if it's all kind of happening at the, you know, same time, maybe the connection's not made.
18:32 Speaker 01 I guess maybe the location, the call centers is too big. You know, maybe they're not in the same.
18:38 Speaker 00 Even if they were right next to each other. Yeah. Maybe they don't put it together.
18:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, maybe someone stands up, say, I got something really crazy going on over here.
18:46 Speaker 00 And I, I think everything they handle is on the chaotic side of things. Now it may not, not everything's like this, but I'm sure it's, it's not a dull job. Let's put it that way.
19:02 Speaker 01 No, I mean, we used, you know, we, we do, we have a, a couple of listeners that are.
19:08 Speaker 00 Oh yeah.
19:09 Speaker 01 Dispatchers. Dispatchers and they had some pretty good stories.
19:13 Speaker 00 I'm sure they have a lot of good, probably some they can't legally tell us.
19:16 Speaker 01 Right.
19:17 Speaker 00 Is my, is my thought. According to 48 Hours, Shannon's call was transferred to the New York State Police when she couldn't give her location. And it took almost a month for police to link her call to the missing persons report because it was filed in New Jersey.
19:36 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
19:37 Speaker 00 So, I mean, I, I think, you know, that, that's just a jurisdictional thing. I don't know that there's any malfeasance or bad police work there. It could just be, you know, how things worked back then. Shannon's sister, Sheri Gilbert, didn't learn she was missing for two days when Shannon's boyfriend called her to say she didn't come home. Shannon's sisters, Sheri and Sarah, had been worried about her ever since she told them she was doing escort work.
20:08 Speaker 01 I mean, it's not the safest job, that's for sure.
20:10 Speaker 00 It's not, and it is obviously a profession that you and I talk about frequently, right? It comes up in many cases because sadly, sex workers are often targeted and have been targeted for a very long time by killers and serial killers because they are in a vulnerable situation.
20:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:37 Speaker 00 In a lot of ways. Number one, sometimes they're getting into cars with people they don't know, which is just almost, I hate to say it, but a perfect scenario for a predator to strike.
20:51 Speaker 01 They're vulnerable. They are a vulnerable target.
20:54 Speaker 00 Yes, there, there's just no doubt about it.
20:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:57 Speaker 00 Shannon had also been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and struggle with depression and mood swings. When her sisters expressed their worry, she said nothing would happen to her. Well, let's face it, nobody thinks anything's gonna, bad is gonna happen to them.
21:13 Speaker 01 No.
21:13 Speaker 00 Now, on the flip side of that is you don't want to walk around all day constantly thinking something bad is going to happen to you.
21:21 Speaker 01 You don't want to manifest something.
21:22 Speaker 00 No, and you don't want to ruin your life by just being so worried about it all the time. Sherri Gilbert told 48 Hours that Shannon was trying to make a better life for herself, saying, "My sister had other dreams. You know, she wanted to be a singer, an actress. She was pursuing that and she was also going to school to be a writer."
21:45 Speaker 01 Well, she's heavily involved in bettering herself and wanting to go to that acting profession, singing, entertainment.
21:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's like what we call the Mike Gibson route.
21:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:59 Speaker 00 AKA Rex West.
22:00 Speaker 01 I too have started writing.
22:01 Speaker 00 Yeah. But, you know, this is the thing, and I understand the illegal part of sex work.
22:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:12 Speaker 00 And why a lot of people look down on it, but it is also true that there have been people, mainly women, that have used it to get through a period in their life.
22:25 Speaker 01 Right.
22:26 Speaker 00 To get on to bigger and better things.
22:27 Speaker 01 Sure.
22:28 Speaker 00 I don't think there's any doubt about that. Very much like stripping. I mean, there are, there are people who have stripped to put their way, to make their way through college.
22:38 Speaker 01 Some that still strip at senior facilities.
22:42 Speaker 00 Yes. Even though they don't have to, they just like it.
22:45 Speaker 01 They just like it.
22:46 Speaker 00 But, yeah, so I try not to be too judgmental about stuff like that. Now, I get it, some things are illegal and they just are illegal. Shannon's family filed a missing persons report as soon as they found out, but they didn't receive any news. So they drove to Oak Beach to start looking for themselves. Shannon had been missing for eight days at this point.
23:09 Speaker 01 It's a long time.
23:09 Speaker 00 It is a long time. And I think if you're the family and this is something that, that you and I go back and forth with, you know, at a certain point, you're going to do whatever you have to do.
23:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:21 Speaker 00 And that's start your own searches, hire a private investigator. Especially if, if, you know, police aren't really communicating or you may not feel as though, A, they're doing what they should be, or B, they're getting anywhere.
23:36 Speaker 01 And really think about it, historically, police used to not really put in the effort for sex workers as a, you know, somebody else, you know, that's part of the community.
23:49 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, that's, I, I think it's been pretty well documented.
23:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:54 Speaker 00 Now, not every jurisdiction or every department, but over the years, I think it's been pretty well documented. That that has happened. So the family, you know, they spoke to a dozen people just trying to put together a timeline. And they learned that Shannon and her driver left the city shortly after midnight on May 1st, 2010, to go to a gated community in Oak Beach. The police did search for Shannon, but months passed with no sign of her. Investigators looked into the man who hired her that night. This guy, Joseph Brewer. Joseph told 48 Hours, he solicited Shannon online, but not for sex.
24:38 Speaker 00 He also didn't know why Shannon became afraid because he never harmed her. He just wanted her to leave his house and brought the driver inside to get her to leave. The last time he saw her, she was running out of his house to his neighbor, Gus Coletti.
24:55 Speaker 01 He's like, hey, I got her out of the house. I'm, I was done at that point.
24:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm also, you know, I always like the, I did solicit Shannon online.
25:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:04 Speaker 00 But it wasn't for sex. You know, that's the whole escort.
25:08 Speaker 01 Right.
25:09 Speaker 00 Part.
25:10 Speaker 01 I just wanted some company.
25:11 Speaker 00 Nobody pays that much money for company.
25:15 Speaker 01 Just want to have some conversation.
25:17 Speaker 00 You know.
25:18 Speaker 01 Cause I'm a talker.
25:19 Speaker 00 Oh, I don't know. Do you need somebody to escort you to a dinner? Yeah, maybe if you're lonely. Are you going to pay thousands of dollars for that? Most people don't. So he can say that, and maybe that's the truth. I, I can't dispute it 100%, but I would be shocked if there wasn't sex in the, in the planning of that.
25:45 Speaker 01 I mean, it definitely would be the minority of that.
25:48 Speaker 00 Yes.
25:49 Speaker 01 Scenario.
25:49 Speaker 00 Yeah. Now I get it. He can't just come out and say, yeah, I solicited her for sex because that is a crime.
25:56 Speaker 01 Exactly.
25:57 Speaker 00 So much better to say, yeah, I'm just lonely. I need an escort, quote unquote.
26:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:04 Speaker 00 When Coletti saw Michael Pack, he said he was looking for Shannon. When Coletti told Pack he called the police, Pack said, "You shouldn't have done that." And that's an interesting statement, because you can take it a couple of different ways, right?
26:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:22 Speaker 00 Is he worried that she's going to get in trouble because she's an escort?
26:28 Speaker 01 Probably.
26:29 Speaker 00 And she's technically doing something that's illegal? Or is it more sinister than that? Does it have another, is there another reason?
26:37 Speaker 01 I mean, it could, it could.
26:40 Speaker 00 In a text of 48 hours, Pack said he never touched her and had nothing to do with Shannon's disappearance. Both Pack and Brewer passed polygraphs and were not considered suspects. So you can make of all of that what you will, and especially the polygraph part, depending on how much stock you put into polygraphs. But I always like it when people say, "Well, I didn't have anything to do with it."
27:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:06 Speaker 00 What else are you going to say?
27:08 Speaker 01 You certainly are going to raise your hand and say, "Well, I had something to do with it, but I'm not telling you anymore."
27:14 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I get it, they have to report it that way because that's what he said, but it's like, it's so, what's on the nose, I guess. But he did pass a polygraph and police said they, neither he nor Brewer were considered suspects.
27:31 Speaker 01 I mean, that's somewhat telling, right?
27:33 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm sure they looked into it.
27:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:35 Speaker 00 There just wasn't anything there. Dr. C. Peter Hackett, a resident of Oak Beach and a retired emergency services doctor, inserted himself into the case when he called Shannon's mother, Mary Gilbert, on May 3, 2010. He ran a halfway house for people who wanted to get off the street and claimed that Shannon was there. She left with her driver and he said he was worried about her. However, when Shannon's sisters came to Oak Beach, he denied calling Mary and said he'd never seen Shannon.
28:10 Speaker 01 That's so bizarre.
28:11 Speaker 00 Well, everything is bizarre, right? From her actions and now you've got this doctor?
28:19 Speaker 00 Allegedly caught making the call and then later saying he didn't make the call. In letters to 48 Hours, Hackett admitted that he called Mary Gilbert, but said it was later in the week and he did so at the request of friends who were searching for Shannon. He wrote, "At no time did I suggest I had ever met her or render medical care of any sort to her." He also denied seeing Shannon when speaking to the press.
28:48 Speaker 01 Why would Mary say that's what he said?
28:52 Speaker 00 I don't know. I don't know. Well, what would be in it? Like, what would be her motive?
28:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly.
28:58 Speaker 00 For saying he said that? I have no idea. She had a friend record her confrontation with Dr. Hackett, who claimed, "I never saw her. I never met her." All this stuff about a rehab or something. I don't have a rehab. I don't do rehab. 48 Hours obtained her phone records, which confirmed that Hackett did make a call to her on May 3, 2010. So, I mean, it's not making him look great.
29:28 Speaker 01 No.
29:29 Speaker 00 Because most of the evidence is kind of backing her story up. 48 Hours went to Hackett's home to get answers about why he called Mary Gilbert and then changed his story. He said, "Because I couldn't remember my story." Seriously, a person gets a lot of phone calls.
29:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know what, though? I would think you would remember this story.
29:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm with you. I think if it's just a run-of-the-mill, everyday kind of phone call, easy to forget. If it's a phone call that is attached to something that is then front-page news and all over the media, you're probably going to tend to remember that.
30:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:13 Speaker 00 That's what I think, at least. Former Suffolk County Chief of Detectives Dominic Verone noted that Hackett wasn't a suspect. Yeah, the calls were strange, but not out of character because Verone said he's an individual who likes to get involved. Some call him a storyteller, an exaggerator. We certainly believe that he may have called to offer his assistance.
30:39 Speaker 01 I mean, clearly he wanted to insert himself into the case, right or wrong?
30:44 Speaker 00 Yeah.
30:45 Speaker 01 But he also should probably be more straightforward on what that conversation was and how it went.
30:51 Speaker 00 Well, a lot of people like to insert themselves into cases, right? I mean, that's, that's just a fact. Sometimes killers like to insert themselves into cases that they're responsible for.
31:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:05 Speaker 00 I'm not saying that's him, but there's also people who just want to be in the thick of it. Right? Because it's fascinating or it's interesting. It's just strange for me to, you know, for kind of a medical professional to get involved and then get caught in this lie. Because then you have to answer the question, well, why are you lying?
31:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:30 Speaker 00 You know, is it just because you wanted to be kind of in the mix? Or is there, you know, a more sinister reason for it? Searches continued throughout the summer of 2010, but were unsuccessful. On December 11th of that year, an officer and his canine were conducting another search for Shannon Gilbert along Ocean Parkway at Gilgo Beach, Long Island. The dog gave an indication off the shoulder of Ocean Parkway and it turned out to be an intact skeleton wrapped in burlap. At first, everyone assumed it was Shannon Gilbert.
32:11 Speaker 00 In fact, police called Mary to tell her they had found Shannon. According to the Gone Girls docu-series. But that assumption turned out to be wrong. Shannon had a titanium plate in her jaw. Due to past injuries from an abusive boyfriend. It was soon determined that the human remains were not Shannon.
32:33 Speaker 01 That's a big mistake to, you know, call a loved one and saying, hey, we've got her.
32:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, without getting the confirmation first. Because you talk about getting someone's hopes up and not hopes that they're dead, but hopes that I guess there's now finally a resolution. Yeah, I'm with you. It's just a big blunder. Why make the call unless you're 100% positive? The remains were identified as 24-year-old Melissa Bartholomew, who went missing in July 2009. On December 13th, Suffolk County Police found three more sets of human remains within a quarter mile of the first discovery,
33:22 Speaker 00 about 22 to 33 feet from the edge of Ocean Parkway. The victims were identified as 25-year-old Maureen Brainerd Barnes, 22-year-old Megan Waterman, and 27-year-old Amber Costello. These victims became known as the Gilgo Four. Their cause of death always listed as homicidal violence. Now let's take a step back, right? All found within a quarter mile of the first discovery, 22 to 33 feet off the edge of this roadway.
34:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, not far apart from each other.
34:03 Speaker 00 No, and not far off the road.
34:04 Speaker 01 No.
34:05 Speaker 00 So there's a couple of things that, you know, kind of jump out to me. Number one is, I think, police stumbled onto somebody's dumping ground.
34:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:16 Speaker 00 But number two is, It seems like if you were really trying to be careful and I always had to be careful. I'm not trying to give tips to like wannabe serial killers.
34:27 Speaker 01 Right, right.
34:28 Speaker 00 But just kind of thinking logically, do you want to go a little bit further off the road?
34:35 Speaker 01 I would. I would want to go further off the road. I'd want to space in, you know, the bodies further apart from each other. And I certainly wouldn't want them, you know, that close to the, up on the road.
34:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, that was my thought. Now, we do know that a lot of times killers, they like to stay in the same kind of geographical region for whatever. They feel comfortable in that area. Maybe that they've done it before. They weren't seen. They're not going to be seen this time. It just seems like very close to the road. 22, 33 feet. That's not, that's not a long distance.
35:14 Speaker 01 And maybe, you know, it's a, an area that they feel like they can go back and revisit easy without looking suspicious.
35:25 Speaker 00 Possible.
35:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know, maybe they felt that was another reason why the bodies had to be dumped there.
35:32 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's absolutely possible. Maureen Brainerd Barnes was the first of the Gilgo Four who was murdered. Maureen was a single mother of two, lived in Norwich, Connecticut. Her family said she was smart, creative, and loved being a mother. Maureen posted escort ads on Craigslist and other websites to meet clients. At the time, her family didn't know she was doing this.
35:58 Speaker 01 Well, I don't think a lot of escorts are broadcasting that to family members.
36:02 Speaker 00 No, I mean, I'm sure there are some whose family know what they do, but that does seem to be something that maybe is kept hidden.
36:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:13 Speaker 00 I think more often than not, maybe it's because they don't think their family will approve. Maybe it's just because they're not. Happy with that, but they feel like they gotta do it to make ends meet. I really don't know.
36:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:28 Speaker 00 Could be a number of different reasons, but it is somewhat interesting that we kind of have this Craigslist connection, at least between two different people that we've talked about. And then also, obviously, the escort connection.
36:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:46 Speaker 00 Maureen's sister, Melissa Khan, told CBS she was getting evicted from her house. She needed to get some money. It was her last resort. These are all the jobs she called and applied for. Call center, data entry, and the list goes on and on. She didn't turn to Craigslist because she wanted to. She turned to Craigslist because she felt there was no way out. No one would give her a job.
37:12 Speaker 01 She had to do out of necessity.
37:14 Speaker 00 Yeah. And, you know, sadly, I think there are a lot of people maybe who turn to that out of necessity. I don't know what the percentage would be.
37:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:26 Speaker 00 I don't know how many people go into that as like first choice. I'm sure there are some, but.
37:32 Speaker 01 Probably, yeah.
37:33 Speaker 00 I don't know if it would be the overwhelming majority.
37:36 Speaker 01 I would think not.
37:37 Speaker 00 Of people. On July 6, 2007, a burner phone contacted Maureen's cell. Between July 6th and July 9th, there were 16 interactions between the two phones.
37:51 Speaker 01 Okay, so definitely some conversations going on.
37:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, in about a three day period of time. I don't talk to anybody 16 times in three days.
38:02 Speaker 01 No.
38:02 Speaker 00 On the phone.
38:03 Speaker 01 I believe that.
38:04 Speaker 00 I talk to you maybe once a week, maybe. Sometimes we just text.
38:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:10 Speaker 00 Once. Sometimes we don't even text.
38:12 Speaker 01 I know.
38:13 Speaker 00 You just show up and we record. I talk to my wife every day. It's only because she calls me on her way home from work.
38:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:20 Speaker 00 She could wait, but she's got nothing else to do, so she just calls me in the car.
38:23 Speaker 01 Wants you to know.
38:24 Speaker 00 I talk to my mom maybe once a week, my dad once a week. Other than that, you know, friends here and there, I do not call people a lot.
38:32 Speaker 01 No, I don't think you have. 16 interactions in a month with everybody you know.
38:39 Speaker 00 Maybe not, maybe not. Now, if it's work related or whatever, I have a lot with listeners who email in and I respond to them and things like that, but just to call and talk, no, it's not my, my favorite.
38:55 Speaker 01 Here's, here's how our conversation would go. Hey, man, how you doing? I'm okay. Okay, that sounds good. So I'll see you tomorrow night. Yep. Okay. See you. Bye.
39:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, if we do talk, that's about what it would be. So the number of interactions is something to take a look at, but then the, the other thing is that it's a burner phone.
39:14 Speaker 01 Burner phone. Yeah.
39:15 Speaker 00 So I think we have to, you know, keep that in mind as well. On July 8th, Maureen's sister Melissa spoke to her for the last time. She received a call from Maureen late at night from Penn Station in Midtown Manhattan. Maureen said she was going to take the midnight train. She never saw or heard from her sister again. You ever been to Penn Station?
39:38 Speaker 01 A long, long time ago.
39:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm, I've actually never been to New York City.
39:43 Speaker 01 Oh, really?
39:44 Speaker 00 Never. My wife keeps saying she wants to go. We've talked about going.
39:48 Speaker 01 They have good, um, cantaloupe sauce.
39:51 Speaker 00 In New York City. Now you and I had Penn Station for dinner, but it's not, not the same thing.
39:57 Speaker 01 No, it's not.
39:58 Speaker 00 So Maureen was last seen alive in New York City on July 9th, 2007. She checked into a super eight motel in Manhattan and disappeared. Maureen's family reported her missing in Norwich and told the police she was an escort. They were told, maybe your sister just ran away. Maybe she doesn't care about her kids.
40:21 Speaker 01 Wow, man.
40:22 Speaker 00 That's tough. That's tough. I wonder how much of that was.
40:28 Speaker 00 Right after they found out she was an escort?
40:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:31 Speaker 00 You know, back to your point earlier, did they think, okay, yep, we're done with this? Because we don't care. I hate to say that, but we know it's happened.
40:44 Speaker 01 I think that's probably what did happen because I can't imagine someone being so insensitive to say something so stupid.
40:51 Speaker 00 Yeah. Now, not to say it's not a possibility, but is that the first thing you're gonna tell the family?
40:57 Speaker 01 Maybe she don't care about her kids.
40:59 Speaker 00 Yeah.
40:59 Speaker 01 I don't know.
41:00 Speaker 00 Like, I think insensitive for sure, at the very least. Similar to the Shannon Gilbert case, Maureen's family felt like no one took them seriously. So they started searching themselves. Officers later told Missy that someone used Maureen's cellphone to make a call from Long Island. Both Long Island and Midtown Manhattan would become central locations in the investigation. The second of the GoGo four went missing almost exactly two years later. After graduating from beauty school, 24-year-old Melissa Bartholomew moved from Buffalo, New York to New York City to work as a hairdresser. She also did escort work.
41:45 Speaker 00 Melissa was last seen alive in New York City on July 19th, 2009. Lynn Bartholomew became worried after she didn't hear from her daughter for several days. She called hospitals and she called the NYPD to file a missing persons report. But according to her, they didn't want to hear anything. They said she's 24, she's not on any psych meds, she's not missing, she's where she wants to be. And she said that happened for three consecutive days.
42:19 Speaker 01 See, I just. Find that so wrong. It's like, we don't have time to deal with this. She's 24. She's where she want to be. Don't worry about it, you know? She'll get a hold of you when she wants to talk to you.
42:30 Speaker 00 Yeah. Now, I understand, right? An adult has the right to go missing, or to go and do whatever they want.
42:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:40 Speaker 00 But is that the first, I guess, right off the bat conclusion to most missing persons reports? I don't know.
42:51 Speaker 01 But it's also her mom that knows her. It's not like they have a bad relationship. I feel like the mom's saying, my daughter's missing.
43:00 Speaker 00 Yeah.
43:01 Speaker 01 She normally contacts me whenever, and I haven't heard from her, and we need to find her.
43:09 Speaker 00 I just wonder, again, how much of that had to do with whether or not they knew that she did some escort work?
43:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:17 Speaker 00 Family attorney Steve Cohen contacted the police and was allegedly told, she's a hooker. She's a prostitute. She was. She's an escort. We're not going to assign a detective to this.
43:32 Speaker 01 I mean, just that right there. We're not going to assign a detective to this because she's this, this, and this. Okay, so because she's these things, that makes her less of a person, that she doesn't deserve the same respect and same courtesy that you would give anybody else missing? I don't get that.
43:50 Speaker 00 No, because you shouldn't get it. It's wrong. Now, obviously, it's this guy saying that. That's why, you know, we use the word allegedly, but I don't know why this attorney would have a, you know, any reason to make this up.
44:04 Speaker 01 Exactly.
44:06 Speaker 00 A week after she went missing, Melissa's 15-year-old sister Amanda received calls from her sister's phone. Amanda answered and said, Melissa, where have you been? A man responded on the other end of the line, saying, oh, this isn't Melissa.
44:23 Speaker 00 According to attorney Steve Cohen, he was soft spoken and had a very controlled and comfortable manner of speech, which made horrific messages all the more devastating.
44:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:37 Speaker 00 This guy began to toy with her and for the very first time, she heard the voice of the killer.
44:44 Speaker 01 Wow. I mean, this guy's got some, uh, you know, what on him to, to, to do something like that, right? To make those calls and to, um, toy.
44:55 Speaker 00 Yeah, but he's getting something out of it.
44:57 Speaker 01 Oh, for sure. Yeah.
44:58 Speaker 00 Yeah. Not doing it just for the heck of it.
45:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:02 Speaker 00 He's getting something out of it in a, a sick, twisted way.
45:06 Speaker 01 Getting his jollies off.
45:07 Speaker 00 Yeah.
45:08 Speaker 01 For, yeah.
45:08 Speaker 00 There were eight calls total traced to Midtown Manhattan. In one call, the killer spoke to Lynn. He said he was with the NYPD and wanted to know if she filed the missing persons report. Steve Cohen told CBS and the killer said some pretty horrible things to Amanda. Sexually explicit things as to what he had done to Melissa. Sexually explicit things as to what he was going to do to Amanda.
45:36 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, it goes to what you were saying that, you know, most likely he was, you know, being very, um, bad in that conversation to her.
45:46 Speaker 00 Yeah. And he was obviously, like we said, getting something out of it, um, some kind of sexual gratification. But I want to talk about Amanda and, and, you know, Lynn for that matter, but Amanda hearing from this person that she believes killed her sister. And he's talking about what he did to her, but then he's also saying what he's going to do to Amanda.
46:12 Speaker 01 Yeah. Scary.
46:12 Speaker 00 You talk about being scared. I mean, I, I don't know how this poor girl, uh, slept at night. She had to have been terrified. Based on his voice, the police believed he was a white male in his late twenties to late thirties.
46:28 Speaker 01 I don't know how you can determine someone's age by their voice though. I think that's hard to do.
46:34 Speaker 00 It is. Um, people. Have always misjudged our age.
46:40 Speaker 01 Sure.
46:41 Speaker 00 Before they've seen us, they don't misjudge it. Once they see us, but I think a lot of people before they got to see us on video thought that maybe we were a little bit younger.
46:53 Speaker 01 They did.
46:53 Speaker 00 Than what we were.
46:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:54 Speaker 00 But also a white male in his late twenties to late thirties. For some reason, I feel is how every FBI profile starts.
47:04 Speaker 01 Exactly.
47:05 Speaker 00 It's a white male.
47:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:06 Speaker 00 In his late twenties to late thirties.
47:10 Speaker 01 Like I could have wrote that.
47:12 Speaker 00 But it seemed like the caller knew about investigative techniques based on the way he made calls in busy locations and how long he stayed on the phone.
47:22 Speaker 01 Don't want to be tracked.
47:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, and we were just kind of joking around about that earlier, right? In the movies, it's like people know exactly how long they can stay on the phone before the other side, law enforcement can trace the call.
47:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:40 Speaker 00 Well, they're, they're kind of saying this about this guy. How's he know this? Is he a cop? Does he have some kind of inside knowledge? Amanda received the final call on August 26, 2009. The man told her, do you know what I did to your sister? Well, I killed Melissa. He warned Amanda that he knew where she lived and he threatened to come after. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I feel for her on, on so many different levels.
48:09 Speaker 01 Sure.
48:10 Speaker 00 Obviously being told that, you know, her sister was killed by the man who killed her.
48:17 Speaker 01 Yeah. Firsthand.
48:19 Speaker 00 Or saying that he, he's the one who killed her. And then threatening her in a way that I think few threats would ever rise to the level of, right? Because number one, you're already thinking this guy's a killer.
48:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:37 Speaker 00 Not a crackpot.
48:38 Speaker 01 No.
48:39 Speaker 00 Not someone just making idle threats. This is someone who's claiming to have already killed your sister who you know is missing and is saying, I know where you live and I'm going to kill you too.
48:52 Speaker 01 And you have to believe him because he's giving you some really. Strong details of what happened to your sister.
48:58 Speaker 00 But and and not just kill you of also basically saying I'm going to sexually assault you with all the nasty things that, you know, I've said in in previous calls. So I feel horrible for her as well. 22 year old Megan Waterman was a mother from Scarborough, Maine. Megan's family said she was a a creative woman who loved fashion. She was devoted to her daughter, but she also had a troubled life, like the other victims Megan did escort work. On June 5, 2010, a burner phone that was activated that day contacted Megan at 1:31 a.m. on June 6. The same burner phone contacted
49:43 Speaker 00 Megan. Security footage captured her leaving a Holiday Inn Express in Hoppage.
49:51 Speaker 01 Hoppage.
49:52 Speaker 00 I hope I'm saying that correctly. It's a hamlet on Long Island. Around that same time, this was the last time Megan was seen alive. Megan normally had someone with her when she went on client calls, but this time she was alone. Cell phone records placed Megan's phone in a Long Island neighborhood called Massapequah Park. 27 year old Amber Costello lived in West Babylon, Long Island, just seven and a half miles from Massapequah Park. She also did escort work. A client asked Amber to meet him at the Holiday Inn Express in Hoppage a few weeks before she went missing, but Amber refused. And now I'm almost certain I'm saying that incorrectly,
50:36 Speaker 00 but a lot of people will tell me how wrong I am.
50:38 Speaker 01 They will.
50:39 Speaker 00 Amber's roommate, Dave Schaller, said she was an amazing person. Amber struggled with addiction, and she did sex work to pay for drugs. According to Dave, Amber used to say she was better off dead. She hate that she hated that she struggled with addiction, and she didn't like her work. He told 48 Hours, she knew what she was doing was just like degrading, just despicable. She absolutely hated.
51:09 Speaker 01 But she had an addiction that she had to feed.
51:12 Speaker 00 Yeah. And I think she was very honest about it.
51:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:15 Speaker 00 She was doing it to get money to pay for her drugs. On September 1st, 2010, Amber was contacted by a burner phone. On the second, she left her house to meet a client and never came back. Dave Schaller told the police about Amber's clients. He said, one of them looked like an ogre and drove a first generation Chevrolet Avalanche.
51:41 Speaker 01 Okay, an ogre.
51:43 Speaker 00 What are we talking about? Shrek?
51:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:45 Speaker 00 Just a, a, a big.
51:47 Speaker 01 Ugly guy.
51:47 Speaker 00 Ugly dude. The client had called Amber three to four times on the day she went missing. He offered her $1,500 for the night, which was about six times her hourly rate.
52:00 Speaker 01 That's a heck of a, uh, amount to be offered. If that's six times what you typically would get paid.
52:07 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, that, that's kind of hard to turn down.
52:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:10 Speaker 00 But here's my thought, if you're a serial killer, you can offer whatever you want.
52:17 Speaker 01 Absolutely. You're not, you're never gonna pay it.
52:20 Speaker 00 You don't have any plans of ever paying that money. And if you do pay it, you're eventually gonna get it back.
52:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:28 Speaker 00 I mean, it's a sad thing to say, but you have to believe that that goes through a, a person like this's mind that, you know, I'm gonna make an offer that there's no way someone can refuse. And I can do it because it doesn't matter, I'm not paying it.
52:45 Speaker 01 But for Amber, this is, this is like, I can make all this money and I won't have to do this for X amount of days or whatever, because I'll get all this money upfront and think about all the drugs I can.
52:58 Speaker 00 It's just too good to pass up.
52:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:00 Speaker 00 Right? From her perspective, in 2011, Dave spoke to CBS and said, this guy was so relentless. He called several times. He was on the phone with her for quite a while each time. This client convinced Amber to do something she never did, which was leave home without her purse or phone. him in his car. Dave walked out the front door with Amber as she left to meet her client. She hugged him, said she loved him and left. It was almost midnight. He saw her walking down the street and never saw her again. Dave told 48 hours, he didn't see the client's face, but he thought he had seen the guy before. After the bodies were found on Gilgo Beach,
53:41 Speaker 00 police began the hunt for a suspect who became known as the Long Island Serial Killer, or Lisk for short. You always have to abbreviate things. We always do. Investigators noted similarities between the Gilgo four. Not only were they found close together, they were all young sex workers with petite bills. The victims excluding Megan Waterman were five feet tall or less, about 100 pounds, all in their twenties and working as online escorts. Megan Waterman was five foot five.
54:18 Speaker 01 What would be the advantage of having a petite escort? Because maybe you can control them? You can have.
54:25 Speaker 00 Yeah, I actually have a couple of theories. One is, is that if you're going to attack someone, is it going to be easier to subdue someone that weighs 100 pounds? Yeah, probably. But also, is it possible that the killer just had a type?
54:45 Speaker 01 Oh, very, very much so.
54:46 Speaker 00 And, and his type was very petite, you know, short women who didn't weigh much.
54:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:54 Speaker 00 You know, Dominic Verone, former chief of detectives, believed the killer scrolled through online ads on Craigslist to find his preferred victim type. He said, if he desires a particular height and weight and eye color, he can do that. And I think if you look at the Gilgo four, they're very, very close with unique characteristics, very petite, five footer under, 100 pounds, hazel green eyes. And I think he's right on the money.
55:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:28 Speaker 00 Because. If you're driving around, looking on street corners, can you size up someone to see, yeah, how tall they are? Sure. Not gonna see eye color.
55:41 Speaker 01 No.
55:42 Speaker 00 But on an online ad, it probably has all of that. Height, weight, eye color.
55:48 Speaker 01 You're gonna save a lot of time, right? You can sit there in your office or on your living room, scroll through, see what you like.
55:57 Speaker 00 It's a scary thought, but you're absolutely right. It is scary, though. The bodies were wrapped in burlap and found in similar positions, bound with belts or tape at the head, midsection and legs. Vron believed the killer was familiar with the area along Ocean Parkway and chose it as his dumping ground. At the time, the area was covered in brush. There has since been a new bike path constructed, but in 2010, few joggers and cyclists went to this area.
56:27 Speaker 01 Well, man, I think you had to be comfortable, right? To take a body out of your, out of your vehicle, you know, and, and throw it or roll it or carry it 20 to 30 feet off the road. You gotta feel pretty comfortable. No one's coming by.
56:44 Speaker 00 Yeah. Vron wondered if the killer chose small victims, who would be easier to overpower and transport.
56:51 Speaker 01 Well, that's a good thought there.
56:52 Speaker 00 Yeah, because you hit on the overpower part, but now we're talking about transport. And not to be morose, but a lifeless body, it, I'm sure is hard to transport. I have no firsthand knowledge of it.
57:08 Speaker 01 That's why they call it dead weight.
57:09 Speaker 00 Right, but 100 pounds, much easier than 150 or 200 pounds. I mean, that's just a fact. Instead of burying the bodies, he just tossed them into the brush. Investigators also suspected the killer might have posed as a hunter, a private trash hauler, or someone else who would have had a reason to be on the beach. The killer might have been someone who was charming or persuasive. For example, he convinced Amber Costello to leave behind her phone. And Maureen Brainerd Barnes was at Penn Station, about to get on a train when she disappeared. So I think that's a good observation.
57:51 Speaker 00 Because what does that mean? Who are we talking about here as a potential killer? Are we talking about Henry Lee Lucas, who would scare the, you know what, out of anybody who, who saw him, whether they knew he was a killer or not, he was just a scary looking dude? Or are we talking about possibly a more normal, I hate to use the word normal, but Henry Lee Lucas wasn't normal, so I'm okay with it, but more of an everyday type of guy, not shabby dressed, shabbily dressed, or you know, wears nice clothes, speaks well.
58:29 Speaker 01 Maybe made them feel comfortable.
58:32 Speaker 00 Yeah.
58:33 Speaker 01 I mean, I think he probably had to make them feel comfortable for them to.
58:37 Speaker 00 To do some of these things. I think that's what the investigators were saying. The killer was also brazen and sadistic, as evidenced by the disturbing phone calls, you know, that he made to Melissa, Melissa's family. I mean, those were nasty. We talked about him.
58:54 Speaker 01 Things that he said to Amber?
58:55 Speaker 00 Yeah, Amanda.
58:57 Speaker 01 I mean, Amanda, yeah.
58:58 Speaker 00 The police continued searching the beach on December 16th, 2010. Throughout the spring of 2011, investigators continued searching for Shannon Gilbert. And I mean, that's who we started the episode talking about. They end up finding these other victims, but not Shannon. But really, this is just the beginning of the Long Island serial killer case. More horrifying discoveries would be made on Gilgo Beach that spring. In part two of the Long Island serial killer episodes, we'll cover the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo Beach area, the links among the victims, and follow the investigation through 2022.
59:43 Speaker 00 So like we said, right? As we wrap up this first part, it's going to take four parts because there's just so much to this case.
59:50 Speaker 01 There's a lot.
59:51 Speaker 00 There really is. I mean, if you did it back in the day as an unsolved case, it would have taken three episodes.
59:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, no, you're right.
1:00:00 Speaker 00 And, you know, now, obviously, with the discovery of who the perpetrator was, and even more recently, him pleading guilty, then we just got a lot to get into.
1:00:11 Speaker 01 We do.
1:00:12 Speaker 00 But that's it for the first part. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?
1:00:17 Speaker 01 Let's hear it.
1:00:17 Speaker 00 People on the video are not used to seeing or hearing voicemails.
1:00:21 Speaker 01 No.
1:00:21 Speaker 00 But this is what happens on the regular podcast, so they're seeing it for the first time.
1:00:28 Speaker 02 Hey, guys. My name is Brooke. I live in South Mississippi, and I've been listening to y'all for years. I had to start completely over because I got a new phone and lost what Apple had saved for me. So I started all over again, and now I'm about halfway through again. But I just wanted to let y'all know, I absolutely love y'all's podcast. I listen to it while I'm working, while I'm driving, while I'm going to bed, everything in between. And also, there is a very little-known serial killer that most people don't know about. His name is Robert Dale Henderson. I actually had to do a project on him back in college.
1:01:11 Speaker 02 He, I found out about him because I went to interview as a 911 dispatcher in my hometown. And the guy who interviewed me knew my family name because he was the lead investigator on the case of my cousin who was killed in 1982. Turns out, she was the 13th victim of a serial killer named Robert Dale Henderson. Y'all should look him up and see what y'all can figure out, because a lot of people don't even know he existed. But y'all have a blessed day, and keep your own time a ticking. Bye.
1:01:48 Speaker 00 All right. We love you.
1:01:50 Speaker 01 We do.
1:01:51 Speaker 00 We appreciate the voicemail, and we'll definitely look into that.
1:01:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, thanks, Brooke.
1:01:54 Speaker 00 Because it sounds like it could make for... A very interesting episode. All right, buddy, that's it.
1:02:01 Speaker 01 It is.
1:02:02 Speaker 00 For another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike.
1:02:04 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
1:02:05 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
Previous Samantha Josephson Next Long Island Serial Killer Part 2 Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated