Long Island Serial Killer Part 2

In this episode of True Crime All The Time, the hosts continue their deep dive into the Long Island Serial Killer investigation, focusing on the discovery of additional victims, investigative setbacks, emerging suspects, and developments through 2022. Join Mike and Gibby for part 2 of the Long Island serial killer episodes. The episode examines how multiple dismembered remains discovered across Long Island may be connected and explores the controversies surrounding the investigation. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 1:49Speaker 00

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 501 of the True Crime All The Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gaby, how are you?

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Hey, we did it. We went over 500 episodes.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  We turned the page to 501.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  The jeans you wear, the 501s.

• 2:09Speaker 00

  Butterfly.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Butterfly.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  I never understood button fly.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  They were not a big hit. I don't.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  I think they were. I think a lot of people were wearing, maybe still do. A zipper just seems so much faster.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  It is. It's a lot of work when you gotta get your jeans off to have to undo those five buttons.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Except for, you know, that guy in Something About Mary. See, people that are afraid of that might go with the button fly.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  All right, man, we're diving right in.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  So, last episode, we started our series on the Long Island serial killer. We started off talking about how the investigation began. The discovery of the bodies on Gilgo Beach. The lives of the Gilgo Four. And the early suspect profile. Which, let's face it, wasn't a whole lot.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:01Speaker 00

  Ogre in his late twenties to late thirties. Basically is what we got. Now, I did want to spend just a second here, though. Talking about the commonalities or the similarities of the victims. We touched on it in episode one. But it's hard not to believe. Right? When you kind of step away and you look at it. That someone is targeting a very specific type of woman.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  I mean, number one, they're all escorts. So they have that in common. And as we heard, I think, one of the investigators say. You know, it seems as though this person is going online. And essentially, searching for the type of victim that they're looking for.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, petite, hazel eyes. What, a hundred pounds or less?

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  For the majority of them.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Five foot or less?

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  I mean, it's a very specific victim type. And I just got to thinking about it, you know, between the first episode and the second. How easy that would have been for the killer.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Fairly easy.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  It's like, and I don't want to trivialize it. But it's like shopping on Amazon.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Basically, I mean, it's exactly what you're saying, right? He went to the market.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Selected the criteria and then said, here you go.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Now, we did spend a little bit of time talking about sex work. Again, very dangerous job, always has been, always will be.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  You think about an escort maybe being safer than someone standing on a street corner who's getting into the car with, with a stranger who is then going to drive away to wherever they want.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  But then is it? Because now we're talking about someone who's advertising their services online where someone can carefully select the type of victim that they're looking for.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  And this killer's doing a good job, and I hate even saying that, but he's, he's doing a job where he can get them to drop their defense. Right? He's telling them, hey, leave this stuff behind. Don't bring your purse, don't bring this. And that's kind of like the safety net, right? I mean, you just.

• 5:45Speaker 00

  Phone?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Maybe a purse with a pepper spray or something that a woman would normally carry as, as some form of protection. Maybe that's part of that. But I just, I was really thinking about that. And again, we don't, we always hate it when we have to give, I don't want to use the word props, but when you have to give credit or anything like that to a killer, but I think you have to talk about how they go about doing what they do.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  It's important.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Sure it is.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  To the story. It's also important to learning what to look for in, in certain situations. But as we move on to part two, you know, we'll cover the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo Beach area, more links, right? Or all the links among the victims and follow the investigation through 2022.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  On March 29th, 2011, police found partial skeletal remains several miles east of where the Gilgo Four were found. And we said it, right? In episode one, the remains of these four women, the Gilgo Four, were found very close together.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  They were.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  I mean, there was no doubt to me that this was a killer's dumping ground. That's how close they were. This wasn't scattered. I mean, this was a place that someone went to specifically. They went back to specifically because they must have thought, ah, this was a great place the first time. It's going to serve me well in the future.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  I mean, clearly, they were comfortable in that area.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  I think that's, that's a good word to use. These remains were identified as 20-year-old Jessica Taylor, went missing in 2003. Only Jessica's skull and hands were found on the beach. However, other parts of her remains had already been found. Back on July 26, 2003, a dog walker in Manorville, eastern Long Island, found a nude and dismembered torso on top of a pile of scrap wood at the end of a paved access road off Halsey Manor Road. The head and arms below the elbows had been removed, and a tattoo was mutilated to hinder

• 8:16Speaker 00

  identification. So, you know, we're talking about, number one, a sick individual.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  I mean, there, there's no doubt about that. But I think we're also talking about a person who is at least putting some thought into what they're doing. I mean, they're trying to get away with what they're doing. So obviously, there are some steps that they're going to take, right, to hinder the police from identifying who this person is.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  I mean, I think they're not only doing that, but I feel like maybe they might be getting an enjoyment out of this as well.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  You could be right. It could be a um, a two-fold kind of thing. Messing the words up, but you know what I'm saying? I mean, obviously, if you're removing the head and hands, that's um, that goes a long way towards identifying someone. And then take it a step further and then you're trying to mutilate a tattoo, which might help, probably would help the police identify the person. The remains were identified as Jessica later that year. Jessica was last seen working around the Port Authority Bus Terminal in Manhattan.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  Authorities believe she was killed sometime between July 21st and July 26th. Jessica's mother reported her missing when she didn't show up for a planned get together in Poughkeepsie. So, I mean, the one thing that jumps out at me is that these discoveries were made eight years apart.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  And um, you know, we talk all the time about, you know, whether it's a hunter or somebody out hiking or something like that, stumbling upon either a dead body or the remains of a body, skeletal remains. I think that would be shocking. But then there's another part of it that I can't help but think about. And that's that, how many people's remains are just out in some remote area yet to be found?

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Scary.

• 10:34Speaker 00

  That's a scary thought.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  I think there's a lot.

• 10:37Speaker 00

  I think so too. And I don't like it.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  I don't either.

• 10:40Speaker 00

  It's not going to help me plan hiking trips. You know, I don't do a lot of hiking anyway.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  No, I mean.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  I'm not worried about you going hiking.

• 10:51Speaker 00

  No, there's, there's no danger of me planning any, but it's not going to strengthen that or make that any more likely.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  On April 4th, 2011, three more sets of remains were found along Ocean Parkway at Gilgo Beach. The first victim was identified as Jane Doe number six. Authorities found her head, right foot and hands on the beach. She was found a mile and a half east of Jessica Taylor and a little over two miles east of the Gilgo Four. This woman's remains were found years earlier in Manorville, Long Island in November 2000. Again, this was the same area where Jessica Taylor's partial remains were found in 2003.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  I mean, are you asking yourself, if you live there, what the hell is going on?

• 11:42Speaker 00

  I think that's one of the things you're asking.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:45Speaker 00

  It's also, I mean, nobody would have known it in the beginning, but it's also fascinating when you look back on it that, okay, he dumped certain parts or some parts of the body in one location.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Multiple people. And then he dumped parts of multiple people in a second location. So again, those locations must have been ones that he was familiar with, comfortable with. My other thought is, we're talking about a person who is more than okay, apparently, with dismembering body.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  And, you know, I can't imagine ever killing someone. It's not something I want to think about. I don't think of myself as ever doing that. And I think it would be really hard to dismember a body.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  To go to that next level.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:43Speaker 00

  Now, I guess if you're a stone cold killer, that probably doesn't faze you at all. I think for most of us, it's a bridge too far.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  I think you have to have a, there's a certain type of personality that can do that.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  You mean like a sociopath, a psychopath or, you know, that, that kind of personality?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  The victim's torso was wrapped in garbage bags and dumped in the woods near the intersection of Halsey Manor Road and Mill Road. The remains of an unidentified female toddler were located in the same area of Gilgo Beach as Jane Doe number six. The remains of an unidentified male were found closer to the remains of the Gilgo Four. Investigators described the victim as seven, between 17, 23 years old. Asian, and death occurred five to 10 years earlier.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  I mean, so we're kind of getting away from the MO, right?

• 13:40Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, obviously we're, we're male now.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  And we have a toddler.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  So that, that doesn't fit at all with the MO that we've been talking about, which is sex workers presumably, um, you know, gone through online. They all fit a very similar, specific type.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  So for authorities, they have to figure out, are these related? Are they tied together or is this just some random bodies we're uncovering?

• 14:12Speaker 00

  But again, it goes back to your question is what the hell is going on?

• 14:15Speaker 01

  That's what I would, I would be asking myself if I lived there.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  If you're a beachgoer, if you live in the area, I, I think these are all questions you gotta ask. Now, this is not all coming out at the same time.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  Right? We're talking about different years and things like that. So we can, we know it all now.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  But people didn't know it all in 2000 or 2003. It would come out in drips and drabs. And so maybe it didn't hit the same way.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Probably not, but still. I just think, you know, as it, as you picked up the paper and you, you're like, didn't this happen last year?

• 14:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Did this happen two years ago?

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Well, at a certain point, obviously they were able to lay it all out.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  And when you see it all like that, it's, it's very disconcerting to say the least.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 15:08Speaker 00

  The greatest distance between victims was 1.43 miles and the shortest distance was just four tenths of a mile.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  On April 11, 2011, two more sets of remains were found off Ocean Parkway in Nassau County, seven miles west of Gilgo Beach. The first set of dismembered remains were found in the brush at Jones Beach State Park. They belonged to an unidentified woman. This was another instance where the woman's partial remains were first discovered in a different location years earlier.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  So drop a little bit over here, drop a little bit over here and hope that they can't figure it out.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. On June 28, 1997, the dismembered torso of an African American woman was found at Hempstead Lake State Park in Lakeview, New York. The torso was found in a plastic container dumped next to a road along the west side of the lake. The victim had a tattoo below her left breast of a peach with a bite out of it and two drips falling from the core. Because of this, investigators called the Jane Doe Peaches.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  The case was featured on America's Most Wanted and her tattoo was published in a tattoo magazine, leading a Connecticut tattoo artist to come forward with the tip. He recalled that Peaches was visiting from Long Island with her aunt and cousin and said she was having boyfriend trouble.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  I mean, it was worth putting it into that magazine.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, you and I talk about it all the time though, right? If you could, back in the day, get a case on America's Most Wanted.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 00

  That was a big fricking deal.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  I mean, you got in front of a lot of people.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  There was a lot of eyeballs. A lot of people watched that show. Now, the tattoo thing, it's a great piece of evidence or it's a great identifier, but you got to somehow get it in front of the person that would know maybe who did that tattoo or the person who did that tattoo. Really smart of them to think about putting it in a tattoo magazine.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  And I think they got lucky with that. I mean, it could have been a hit or miss, but in this case, they had a, they had a good hit.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  But what was the downside? Right? No downside if it doesn't work.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  So why not take the chance? I mean, that's kind of the way I look at it.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  In 2015, investigators determined Peaches was the mother of the female toddler, known as Baby Doe, found on the beach on April 4th. They were found six miles apart. And that's heartbreaking, right? I mean, we're talking about the deaths of a lot of women here, and it's sad. It really is. But it hits different when you're talking about a toddler. There's just no way around it. Peaches' skull and some of her limbs have still not been found, which meant investigators could not put together a composite sketch. They believed Peaches was between 20 and 30 years old. In addition to her distinctive tattoo, she had

• 18:22Speaker 00

  a scar indicating she had a C-section. The extremities of Peaches that were found on Jones Beach had two gold bracelets. Her daughter, Baby Doe, was wrapped in a blanket with a 16-inch gold chain and two gold hoop earrings. Okay. A skull and teeth were found at Tobey Beach and listed as Jane Doe number seven. The remains were confirmed to belong to an unidentified victim, whose severed legs were found in a garbage bag on Fire Island on April 20th, 1996. So, I mean, let's, let's just stop for a minute. I mean, we are talking about

• 19:06Speaker 00

  a trail of carnage here.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  We really are.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  Now, you know, we're talking about it with the, with the 2020 knowledge, right, of knowing everything that happened. I still think, you know, early on, when these things were being discovered, I'm sure it probably didn't hit the same way. It's different in its totality, but I mean, once you know the, once you know everything, that some parts were found over here, some were here. Two different dumping grounds. Uh, I mean, it becomes just so scary.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really does.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  And you get the full scope of, I mean, if this is one person, we've got a real predator here. And if it's not one person, then what do we make out of it? You got multiple people running around dumping bodies in the same parts? Hard not to believe it's one person, but.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  But you could, it could be multiple.

• 20:09Speaker 00

  And that would potentially even be scarier, I guess. So by May of 2011, a total of 10 sets of remains had been found on Gilgo Beach. Investigators weren't sure whether or not the same killer was responsible for all the murders. So I just got done saying, right, that at a certain point, uh, kind of the totality is, is going to set in. I think by May 2011, if it's being reported that 10 sets of remains had been found. I mean, if you're a resident, if you're making travel plans, it's, it's not going to be to Gilgo Beach. I can tell you that much.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely not, man. You're gonna stay away from there.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  On May 9th, 2011, the police speculated that two of the murders appeared to be related. The partial remains of Jane Doe number six had previously been found in a heavily wooded area of Manorville on November 19th, 2000. She was found in the same section where Jessica Taylor's torso was recovered. The manner of disposal of Jane Doe number six was said to have been distinctly dissimilar to the Gilgo four, but similar to that of Jessica Taylor.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  So I don't know what you make of that other than maybe questioning whether this is the same person? Or if it was one person who murdered and disposed of the Gilgo four, but then you have a second person come in and just happen to murder and dispose of the remains of his victims in a, a similar place. Either way, I'm scared to death, man.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this is just a bizarre scenario.

• 22:04Speaker 00

  It is. It is. And imagine, you know, you live pretty close to there and you picking up the morning paper and this is probably headline news and you're reading it for weeks on end. It's terrifying stuff.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  What if you took a jog down that way earlier that day?

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Wouldn't be. Oh, you mean before you knew?

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Oh, well, okay. Yeah. Cause the jogs are gonna stop.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  I would hope so.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  I mean, I wouldn't be jogging anyway. Jogging is about as likely as hiking.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:32Speaker 00

  Or actually less likely probably for me, but yeah, I think if you're an avid jogger and that that was your route, you're either buying a treadmill to stay indoors or you're you're picking a different route.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  One or the other. I can't imagine that anybody is reading that type of news and saying, yeah, I'll go back there on the next job. Jog. That's fine. I'm not worried about it.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:57Speaker 00

  In early December 2011, investigators found Shannon Gilbert's belongings, including her purse, shoes and cell phone. They were found in marshland near Oak Beach, Long Island. And, you know, this is so fascinating, right? Because we started episode one.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  We did.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  Talking about Shannon Gilbert. That's who they were searching for.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:20Speaker 00

  When they happened to, you know, find the remains of these women and then they were finding more and more remains, but they still, they weren't finding Shannon Gilbert. But the remains of Shannon were finally found on December 13th, 2011, a quarter mile from where her belongings were found. But interestingly, authorities didn't suspect foul play. Because what?

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  She wasn't dismembered?

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And how the, the accounts from that night went.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, that could be. But Shannon's family had a private autopsy done. Their pathologist thought the findings were consistent with homicide. But the SCPD and the FBI Behavioral Unit believe Shannon's death was an accidental drowning.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  But still, you have to think about, you know, one, it's how the whole case started. But then for her to be found with her belongings here, her remains here. Yeah, i- i- if it's not related, she's still mixed in with that stuff. And it just, it's just like another layer of b- bizarreness.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  It is.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  A way to say that.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  It is, and I get it. It's maybe a, a, a different situation. It's not similar enough, right, to, to lump in. In January 2012, James Burke took over as chief of the Suffolk County Police, forcing former Chief of Detectives Dominic Verone into retirement. Chief Burke reduced manpower and cut out outside agencies involved in the Gilgo Beach investigation. The case remained unsolved, but the Long Island Serial Killer remained a topic in the headlines. And how could it not, Gibbs? I mean, this is, uh, big time stuff. You've got, you know, 10 different women.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 00

  At least, or 10 different victims remain scattered in multiple locations. I mean, we're talking about a very vicious serial killer.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  And, and you, you just can't let that sit there, you know? You have to talk about it. It, you need to make sure that authorities are doing everything they can to figure out what the heck's going on. But is it a priority for them if majority of the victims are sex workers?

• 25:43Speaker 00

  Well, i- i- that does kind of, to me, then bring up the question. You, you're reducing manpower and you're cutting out outside agencies.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  Who could provide a lot of help. Why are you doing that? Is there no pressure? Is it because of their profession, many of them? I, I don't know. But it, it seems like a weird thing because this has to be very out there in the headlines, but yet you're reducing the amount of people working on it.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  I mean, it seems like something you'd want to make sure you. We're still continuing with a full court press on.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  Well, and it would seem like something that the public would be demanding.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  But maybe they're not because of the profession of most of these victims. I, I don't know. On December 10th, 2015, Suffolk County Police Commissioner Tim Seeny announced that the FBI had joined the investigation, one day after former Chief James Burke was indicted for civil rights violations and conspiracy. So, you know, I don't know everything about it, but you know, obviously the minute this guy's gone, they bring the FBI back in. And that, that seems logical to me. It seems strange to me that they would even cut anybody out who's trying to help.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  But are they bringing them back in, you know, for the unsolved murders? Or is it a combination of that and the fact that this former chief, you know, is in trouble over civil rights violations?

• 27:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know. Now, the New York Post reported that Burke refused to keep the FBI informed of the investigation into the Gilgo Beach murders. This is because he was on the FBI's radar for the 2012 assault of a man named Christopher Loeb. Christopher Loeb was arrested in Smithtown, New York for probation violations. During the arrest in search of his home, officers found stolen merchandise from over a dozen vehicles, including Burke's vehicle, his gun belt, magazines of ammunition, cigars, humidor, and a canvas bag were stolen.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  It was reported that Loeb also stole sex toys and pornography from Burke.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  You stole from my vehicle. You stole my stuff, but you also stole my sex toys. So that's probably, you know, an embarrassment thing that Burke didn't like to have out there.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, this is the chief of police. First of all, okay, maybe you can't help it that your police vehicle got stolen, right? That's maybe outside of your control. But let's talk about why you have sex toys and pornography in there. You know, that's going to be a question that's going to come up.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  It is.

• 28:53Speaker 00

  Hey, what you do on your own time, you know, as I always say, is is your own business. But, okay, you might be transporting it maybe to get it home. But, you know, when you get home, maybe you take that stuff out of your work vehicle and put it in the bedroom where where you think it belongs.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  But you know, as well as I know, once that gets out there, you know, and you're working day in and day out with your fellow officers, they are not going to let that slide.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Well, he's the chief of police, so they work for him, but they they're still not going to let it slide.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  No, there there are going to be some things, jokes said, things happen.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  Maybe because he's the boss, they don't say them directly to him, but everybody's going to be talking behind his back. I can guarantee you that. You know, you you just think about losing your gun belt, ammunition, things like that. Burke was allowed to enter and get his bag and other items during the search. He drove to the Suffolk County Police 4th Precinct in Smithtown, where Loeb was being interrogated. He entered the room and punched and kicked Loeb in the head and body while he was chained and handcuffed. Burke and others pressured the detectives who witnessed the assault to conceal it. And and this is why people have big time problems with police.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 00

  You have bad apples like this guy, making the rest of police officers look bad.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  I mean, look, I get it. You have the right to be pissed that this guy took your stuff.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  But, and probably, like I said, embarrassed you, but you don't have the right to go in there and and beat him.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  No, and and who would know better than of that than the chief of police?

• 30:45Speaker 01

  He let his emotions get in the way.

• 30:47Speaker 00

  He did. So Burke was arrested on December 9, 2015. He resigned from his position in October.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  On February 26, 2016, Burke pleaded guilty to a civil rights violation and conspiracy to obstruct justice. For almost three years, he and other Suffolk County law enforcement took actions to obstruct a federal civil rights investigation into the assault. So, I mean, not only did he assault this man in 2012, then he spent like three years trying to cover it up and get other people to not say anything about it. On November 2, 2016, Burke was sentenced to 46 months and three years of supervised release. Several years

• 31:37Speaker 00

  later, on August 22, 2023, James Burke was arrested at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Park in Farmingville after exposing himself to an undercover ranger and saying he was interested in oral sex. He tried to leverage his status as a former law enforcement official to get out of the charge. He was charged with offering a sex act, public lewdness, indecent exposure, and criminal solicitation.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  What the hell? What's going on here?

• 32:12Speaker 00

  What the what?

• 32:13Speaker 01

  He's over at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Park, a very serious place, right?

• 32:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  And then he's like, hey.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  Doesn't seem like a hookup place, but maybe it is. I don't know where this place is.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Like, hey, buddy, look, look, I don't have nothing on. Why don't you come over here and, you know. Anyway.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  Didn't he go wearing the brown trench coat?

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. It doesn't go the way he thinks it should go. And then he's like, hey, yeah, I made a bad choice here, but don't, don't arrest me because I'm, I'm one of you, man. I'm an officer. I used to be just, I won't do it again. Let me go.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  But here's the thing, right? He was severely disgraced officer.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  So I don't know what, I don't know how he's leveraging that. In the first place, but it's not gonna work, right? Now I'm starting to wonder what type of sex toys and pornography were stolen from his car?

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  And maybe they were a little bit more salacious, I guess is the word I would use.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  If they were homosexual in nature and, and maybe the people who worked for him didn't know that.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  But that's part of what came out after this guy stole his stuff. And that maybe led to some of his anger.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Might have been.

• 33:32Speaker 00

  I don't know. I'm, I'm drawing that out there.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:35Speaker 00

  I mean, we're in the middle of a, a hunt for a serial killer and we're dealing with this guy.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Who doesn't seem to want to catch the serial killer. He's too busy involved with covering up the fact that he beat the you know what out of this guy for stealing his sex toys and pornography.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 00

  Burke reportedly blocked the FBI's involvement in the Gilgo Beach investigation for years, leading many to wonder if the case could have been solved sooner.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  It's always gonna be that question, right? I mean, if, if you didn't block the FBI from getting involved the way they should have been.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  Or they wanted to be.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Or they was they wanted to be, maybe it could have been solved sooner than it was. And maybe somebody's life could have been spared.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  Well, we talk about in a lot of cases, right? Why would someone, let's say, uh, one jurisdiction turn down the help of, of someone like the FBI? Right there. Sometimes there is that kind of, you know, we can do it ourselves. We don't need the help of anybody else. I get that. Maybe you don't want them to come in and steal your thunder because you think you're gonna solve it. This seems like a much different situation.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  I wonder how much of this was, he didn't want the FBI involved in Gilgo Beach? Because he didn't want them involved in what he, his stuff.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  I think that's probably what it was, right?

• 35:05Speaker 00

  And he thought the two might cross over or something like that.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  I mean, I get it. You're always gonna have, well, hopefully it starts thinning out over time. But you know, you got these egos, right? My department to handle this. We don't need you FBI. We don't need you state police to come in here and tell us how to do what we know how to do best. You're gonna get that. Um, but in this case, I think you hit it right on the point. It's probably, he was like, if they're not here, they can't find out about this.

• 35:34Speaker 00

  This other thing.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  On September 12th, 2017, Suffolk County Prosecutor Robert Biancavilla said a convicted killer may be responsible for more murders connected to Gilgo Beach, but the investigation was ongoing. I, I don't, yeah. I mean, again, I don't think that is a, he's not going out on a limb there.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  The chances of that are probably pretty good.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  John Bitrolf was arrested in 2014 after his DNA was found on the bodies of two sex workers, Rita Tangretti and Colleen McNamie, who were beaten to death in 1993 and 1994, respectively. Thirty-one-year-old Rita Tangretti was found on November 3rd, 1993, in a wooded area off Esplanade Drive in East Patchogue on Long Island. I'm probably butchering that one as well.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Oh, I think you nailed it.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  I doubt it.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  You were spot on.

• 36:36Speaker 00

  Twenty-year-old Colleen McNamie was killed on January 30th, 1994, and found in a wooded area south of the Long Island Expressway. They both died from strangulation and blunt force trauma to the head. Bitrolf was a married father of two. He was 27 at the time of the murders. The DNA match was made through his brother. He was convicted of violating a protective order in 2013 and had to provide a DNA sample.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  I mean, what, what's the luck of that, right?

• 37:10Speaker 00

  Well, if you're a killer, that's bad luck.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  For you, you've done a pretty good job staying out of the databases, staying off police radar. All of a sudden, your brother goes and messes it up and you get caught for murder.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:26Speaker 00

  Now, for us, that's great. We love that.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Absolutely, we do.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  But if you're a killer, you're not happy about that. Bit Rolfe was convicted in May 2017 and sentenced to 25 years for each murder. Investigators noted a few potential links to the Gilgo Beach murders. Bit Rolfe lived in Manorville, where the remains of Jessica Taylor were found. He was a hunter who reportedly enjoyed killing animals. He was also a carpenter and had access to various saws, which was relevant because we talked about it, right? Several of the bodies on Gilgo Beach were dismembered. The daughter of Rita Tangredi was also close friends with Melissa Bartholomew.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  One of the Gilgo Beach Four.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  Melissa's mother noted that she had a lot of calls to Manorville from her phone before she died. In September 2019, state officials determined that investigators could ask the FBI to use genetic genealogy to find potential relatives of the victims or suspects. And, you know, that 2019, that's, you know, it was starting to ramp up pretty big.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  It was.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  We had the Golden State Killer and, man, we just have not let off the gas since. Genetic genealogy has been amazing.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Pretty important.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  But why would you not want the FBI to help out with something like that? Think of the resources.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I never can understand why anybody would say no to the FBI.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. In January 2020, former Suffolk County Police Commissioner Geraldine Hart, a former FBI agent who joined the force in 2018, tried to revive the investigation by releasing a key piece of evidence. It was a man's belt with two initials carved into it. The initials were H and W, or if you looked at it upside down, M and H.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  The department also set up the Gilgo News website, hoping someone would leave a tip that would progress the investigation. Commissioner Hart said about the belt, per CBS, "We do believe that this item was handled by the suspect and did not belong to any of the victims." So. You know, here you have somebody come in from the FBI. She's now the commissioner. She's not, uh, you know, caught up in some big scandal. Sounds like she's doing a good job. But it's a big deal.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  It is a big deal.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  You have a piece of evidence that you believe was handled by the suspect. Because it presumably didn't belong to any of the suspects. But it also has what appears to be initials on it. So, okay, we got DNA, we got initials. We might be on to something here.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Do you have your initials on your belt?

• 40:31Speaker 00

  No.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  How about that belt buckle? You got your name on that?

• 40:35Speaker 00

  No.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  You don't have that gigantic belt buckle?

• 40:37Speaker 00

  I still have it, but it doesn't have my initials on it.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  It's got a cowboy riding a bull.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Is that what it has on yours?

• 40:44Speaker 00

  Okay. I won that at the rodeo.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you did not.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Oh, that's funny, man.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  So on May 28th, 2020, Jane Doe number six was finally identified using genetic genealogy. The woman found on Gilgo Beach on April 4th, 2011 was identified as 24-year-old Valerie Mack. Valerie, who also went by the name Melissa Taylor, went missing in 2000. At the time, she was working as an escort in Philadelphia and was last seen by her family in Port Republic, New Jersey. And this is interesting, right? You and I talk a lot about genetic genealogy in the search for killers.

• 41:32Speaker 00

  But we've also talked about it as a tool used to help identify suspects. And it's equally valuable there. Obviously, we want to find killers and all of that. But giving unidentified victims their names back, it's unbelievably huge.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  As well, so.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Some sense even more important.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think I think you could say that. And we talked about it earlier, but her partial remains were found in 2000 in Manorville, where the remains of Jessica Taylor were also found in 2003. So Valerie had finally been identified, but her killer had not. Meanwhile, Shannon Gilbert's family, they were still seeking answers to explain her suspicious death. The family experienced another tragedy in July 2016, when Shannon's younger sister, Sarah stabbed their mother, Mary, to death.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  She was later convicted of murder and sentenced to 25 years in prison.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  I mean, unbelievable.

• 42:42Speaker 00

  It is. I mean, we're talking about a serial killer and the victims and then wrapped up in all of this or all these kind of, I guess you'd call them side stories that are just, I mean, they're fascinating. I'm sure there's a better word to talk about that. I guess, you know, my question would be, you know, how much of what happened with Sarah was related to Shannon's disappearance, her death, the tumultuous things that the family had to deal with?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  But if we think about, you know, the cause of Shannon's death, you know, we don't know at this, as we're talking about it, but if, if it was because of mental illness, is it possible that her sister suffered from something like that as well? And maybe that had something to do with her killing her mom?

• 43:48Speaker 01

  I mean, it's tragic for sure, all the way around.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  When asked by CBS in 2020, Suffolk County Police Commissioner Hart said that Shannon Gilbert's cause of death was inconclusive. And that's, you know, that's interesting because, you know, accidental drowning, right, was thrown out there, no foul play involved. The family, obviously, they didn't believe that.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  They did their own autopsy. They were doing their own investigative work. Now, the police, the new police commissioner comes out and says that the cause of death was inconclusive. In May 2022, the Suffolk County Police released Shannon Gilbert's full 911 call. The Suffolk County Police said Shannon's exact cause and manner of death couldn't be determined, but based on the evidence, the facts, and the totality of the circumstances, the prevailing opinion of Shannon's death, while tragic, was not murder, and most likely not criminal. In an interview with CBS, former Police Commissioner

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Rodney Harrison said, "It's an unfortunate incident, but right now, we believe that she just ran into the marsh and unfortunately drowned." So, I mean, in the one sense, I do like coming out, the police commissioner coming out and saying, "It's inconclusive." Now, they're saying, "Most likely, we think this happened." I don't like it when people are so adamant.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  That something happened a certain way, when they really don't have the, you know, the facts, let's say, to back it up. It's kind of like when we talk about manner of death, or cause of death, when you could leave it as undetermined, but they don't, and they say, "Natural causes," or, you know, they say something so definitive when you look at the evidence and it seems so up in the air.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, why box it in when you don't have to?

• 46:03Speaker 00

  Right, because it sets a lot of things in motion, or prevents things from being put into motion. The problem is Shannon's family, they still suspected foul play, right?

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Them coming out and saying this stuff isn't going to change their mind. And we said it in part one, I just said it a minute ago. They ordered a private autopsy and it was conducted by Michael Button.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  And I actually, maybe about a month ago, watched some of the old autopsy shows on HBO.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 00

  Man, when I was younger, those were shows that fascinated me.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Same here.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  And they were all, you know, cases that he had done, or at least cases that he talked about. And I always thought he was a, you know, kind of a fascinating guy. He was the former New York Chief Medical Examiner. There was not enough evidence to determine a cause of death. But according to him, the findings were consistent with homicidal strangulation. Part of Shannon's neck bone was missing from her remains. So again, I think that right there tells you all you need to know about determining a cause of death. If it could go either way, right?

• 47:23Speaker 00

  If he could see it that way, and another man, a medical examiner could see it as accidental drowning. Yeah, you gotta say it's undetermined.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 47:33Speaker 00

  Cause you have multiple experts saying different things. Former chief of detectives Dominic Verone said about the accident theory and the way Shannon's belongings were found in the marsh near her body. She's disoriented, she's in a frenzy. You have to understand the manner in which these items were found, very consistent with someone losing these items as they're running. Okay, why are you running? Why is she running?

• 48:03Speaker 01

  I mean, maybe still panicky like she was when she was in that neighborhood, going from house to house saying, you know, I need help, help, help, help. I need help, help, help, that we talked about in episode one, you know? Maybe she's still in that mode.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  Or, or is it because she's being chased?

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Or is she being chased by whatever she thinks is chasing her?

• 48:26Speaker 00

  Or actually is chasing her.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Chasing her, which could be the truth.

• 48:30Speaker 00

  Because we're, we're at a different point, right? She's in a different place.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Maybe she came across something she shouldn't have came across.

• 48:38Speaker 00

  Or maybe she caught the eye of somebody who

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  just happened to be out there. Suffolk homicide section commanding officer Kevin Brier.

• 48:46Speaker 00

  Explain that Shannon wandered into marshland where reeds can grow up to 12 feet high. One cannot tell where the highway is or where the bay is. Some of the brush is impenetrable. He noted that Shannon's body was found north of a trench about three quarters of a mile from where she was last seen. Former Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer said at the time that investigators believe Shannon drowned or succumbed to the elements. He said she traveled at least half a mile, three quarters of a mile on foot through that muck. It would be very easy to get exhausted and fall down and not be able to move any further.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  And I get that. Yeah. I mean, if you're looking at different scenarios, different possibilities, I think you have to look at that one. You also have to look at maybe homicidal strangulation. I don't, I don't know. Look at them both.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  To leave them both open.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Family attorney John Ray and his colleagues went to the marsh to see if Shannon could have traveled through the area. Ray noted that it would have been almost impossible for Shannon to walk through the area without cutting her feet badly. That's interesting. Assuming she was barefoot. So they do a test and they're like, oh, no way you could walk through all this stuff without cutting your feet. Now, you can debate the accuracy of all these different things. The family also believes the police should have done more to investigate Dr. Peter Hackett. And we've mentioned it right in part one, how this guy kept inserting himself into

• 50:24Speaker 00

  the case by contacting Shannon Gilbert's mother and claiming that Shannon stayed at this halfway house that he ran. Now, he later denied calling her, said that he'd never seen her, but phone records proved otherwise.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  The family filed a wrongful death suit against Dr. Hackett claiming he improperly treated Shannon. According to 48 Hours, Dr. Hackett was known to provide medical treatment out of his home. Two neighbors signed affidavits, one claiming Dr. Hackett gave him a prescription injectable steroid, another claiming Hackett provided prescriptions for residents of Oak Beach. Now, he admitted to treating friends and neighbors, but he denied treating or seeing Shannon Gilbert.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  So he's just gonna claim that that never happened?

• 51:21Speaker 00

  Which, yeah, I think he keeps saying, didn't do it, didn't see her, didn't, even though, you know, he has said some things to the contrary, and I think some phone records didn't support some of the things that he said. Attorney John Ray said at a press conference, there's no evidence whatsoever that Shannon Gilbert died a natural death. Those three theories have been put forward repeatedly by Suffolk County Police. And I get it, this happens all the time, right? The police come up with their theory, the family's not happy, they're not buying it. And they want their own or independent people to take a look

• 52:06Speaker 00

  at it. And it's not unusual for experts to disagree. The only part I ever have a problem with is, like I said, a determination made as to the manner or cause of death without really concrete evidence to that fact. I get it, we all have theories and there's speculation, and you can make educated guesses and people do. But if you can't be 100% sure with provable, you know, facts, evidence, just leave it as undetermined. And until something comes along that that does back one version up.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  I mean, at least the family's pushing on it. Well, you know, I don't know how much pushing's going now with, you know,

• 52:56Speaker 00

  With the death of her mom.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  With her mom and her sister's in prison, but

• 53:01Speaker 00

  Who's left to push?

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 53:02Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah, we don't know.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  But in part three of the Long Island serial killer episodes, we'll cover how a Suffolk County task force identified the suspect and we'll get into, you know, his arrest, but also get into his background.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is critical.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, because I think people really fascinated by this guy, not for what he did, obviously, but who he was.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  And, you know, that's true, I think, for a lot of serial killers. You think of a guy like John Wayne Gacy, people are horrified by what he did, but look at the man's life.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 00

  And what he portrayed to those around him and then, you know, find out what he actually did. How could somebody play both of those roles?

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 00

  I mean, some of that stuff is really fascinating. I mean, it just is. So that is it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  And Gabby.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.