Samantha Josephson

In 2019, Samantha Josephson, a college senior, was kidnapped and murdered after mistakenly entering a vehicle she believed was her Uber after a night out in Columbia, South Carolina. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Samantha Josephson. The case became nationally known because it highlighted rideshare safety concerns and eventually inspired state and federal legislation known as “Sami’s Law.” You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Hello everyone and welcome to episode 499 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  I'm doing good, doing good, man. How about you?

• 0:17Speaker 00

  I'm doing great.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  So 499.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Which means Sunday's episode is 500.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  It is.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  It's a big milestone for us. I mean, we have been doing this almost 10 years.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:30Speaker 00

  Which is hard to believe, but it also means it's time for a really big case. Cause on the big milestone numbers, we always do a really big case.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  We do.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  And I won't spoil it by giving it away, but it's going to be a multi-parter and we're going to do them all on, on video and audio. So.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  I'm excited. Plus my contract, it says on episode 500, I get a steak dinner that night. So.

• 0:58Speaker 00

  I think you've had enough dinners, free dinners.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Is that a bad subject?

• 1:04Speaker 00

  10 years of free dinners.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Is that a poor subject at this point?

• 1:07Speaker 00

  Nah, nah, it's all right.

• 1:10Speaker 00

  All right, buddy. You ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm ready.

• 1:14Speaker 00

  We're talking about Samantha Josephson. In March 2019, college senior Samantha Josephson was kidnapped and murdered during a night out with friends when she got into a car that she mistakenly thought was an Uber. So I mean, that's scary, first of all.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32Speaker 00

  But her case led to the passage of both state and federal laws enhancing rideshare safety. Because you know, let's face it, and you and I have talked about it many a time, there's something that comes out and let's say it's new technology, a new service. Everybody loves it.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  Right?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  They do.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  What you don't think about is kind of what's the dark side or what could be the dark side of things, you know, think about the internet.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  I mean, who wasn't fascinated with the internet? But there's a lot of danger that comes with the internet. What happens is we figure out, okay, what the danger is, and then we put something in place to try to prevent it from happening again. Samantha Josephson was born in Princeton, New Jersey to parents Seymour and Marcy Josephson. She lived in Robbinsville, New Jersey.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  I wonder if you're born in Princeton, are you automatically just a little bit smarter?

• 2:32Speaker 00

  I would say no.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  No?

• 2:35Speaker 00

  I'm gonna say no.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  It's like, you know, if you're, you're born in Boston, near Harvard, are you automatically a little bit smarter?

• 2:46Speaker 01

  I like these apples, I think so.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Maybe, maybe. Marcy Josephson said at a court hearing that the family called Samantha Sweetpea. She was bubbly, kind and, and full of life. And Sweetpea is kind of a cool nickname, I think. Not, not for me, but.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  I was just checking.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't want to be called Sweetpea.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  We can call you Sweetpea.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  No, I don't want to.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  We can probably get that going.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  I don't want to start that, but at the time of her death, Samantha was a senior political science major at the University of South Carolina in Com- Com- Columbia, South Carolina.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  I think it's Columbia, yeah, yeah. Nice little town.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, University of South Carolina, they're in the SCC. They have one of the, to me, what is one of the strangest nicknames, the Gamecocks.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Gamecocks, yeah.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Seems like a, kind of a strange one, but.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Fancy bird?

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't really know what kind of bird it is. I, I do know that there are people in the student section at like football and basketball games that have hats that say, no one can lick our cocks. That's, I do know that. And I always got a chuckle out of that.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  You always.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  Maybe a little sophomoric, but I did.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Do you wonder when they, like the marketing team, hey, I know what the logo is going to be. And is there somebody in that room snickering like?

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Maybe we shouldn't, guys. And somebody came up with that, you know, that statement.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  Samantha's father, Seymour Josephson, said that she enjoyed her time at the university. She absolutely loved it there. She was a Gamecock.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  And I think people, you know, they, they really, a lot of people do, they get just so entrenched in their university that, you know, you, you go to the football games or the basketball games or whatever it is. I mean, that becomes a part of you.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  I mean, it is a big part of your life.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  So, I mean, I think, you know, I mean, around here, if you go to Ohio State, I mean, these people, they're Buckeyes.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  You're a Buckeye.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  And even if you don't go there because you live in and around that area, you're a Buckeye and you're where the, the scarlet and gray colors and you're fly the flags.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  And I, I wonder if it has to do, you know, whether it's a bigger school or a, a school that's known for a certain sport.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  If that plays more of a, a role into it because we have small, smaller schools here around us. And nobody really talks about like, oh, they're a big fan of that place. Or

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  That place was awesome. Or, so maybe that has something to do with it.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  It probably does. Just think about, you know, I mean, I can, can't see over here, but I

• 5:26Speaker 00

  I don't know why. It's great. It's, it's good pod, but I don't know what you're doing.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  You know, I mean,

• 5:31Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you're a huge.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  I didn't even go to Kentucky and I'm a huge Kentucky Wildcats. Fan. Um, at the time of her death, Samantha had been working at the Liberty Taproom, a brewery and grill for several months. She was in a, a long-term relationship with Greg Corbischley, who said Samantha was the love of his life. Samantha was murdered in the final weeks of her last semester of college. She was preparing for an exciting new chapter after graduation. And obviously it's tragic anytime a young person loses their life.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:09Speaker 00

  And obviously we're going to talk about that more, but then you think about a couple of things. First of all, you know, what was that person going to go on to do? Well, you're not going to know because their life was taken away from them. But you think about being just a few weeks away from graduation.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Right at the finish line.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  And what, what that is like in your mind, whether it's high school, college, whatever. That's like one of the best times. You know, like you can see the finish line and you're just kind of coasting in because most of the stuff is already done. You might be finishing up some exams and things like that, but,

• 6:49Speaker 00

  I don't know. It adds like an extra tragic layer to it.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  I agree with you.

• 6:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Samantha wanted to be an attorney and had already been accepted into two law schools. She wanted to practice human rights law or international law.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  You know, that's, that's, that's awesome. Uh, I love international law.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know you've dabbled in it from time to time. I don't know how you have time with your, um, medicine practice and all the other things you have going on, but.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  All the side gigs Rex West has, I know.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  But there's no doubt that, I mean, she was a, she was an intelligent person. She had recently told her parents that she was offered a partial scholarship to Rutgers Law School in New Jersey and Drexel University School of Law in Philadelphia.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  That's impressive.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is. Her parents planned to come to Columbia to surprise Samantha. On March 31st, 2019, on the night of March 28th, which was a Thursday, Samantha went out with her roommates in the Five Points area of Columbia, which is a nightlife hub in the city. They were out into the early morning hours of March 29th, 2019.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Well, I'm sure it was hopping and whatever the cool words are at the day, but I'm sure it was like.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  Hopping probably wasn't it, but I, I get what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, you think about any big college, the nightlife scene is usually pretty.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Healthy.

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Healthy. That's a great word for it.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  And the fact that they're out into the early morning hours of the next day doesn't surprise me at all because I remember being in college and that's just kind of how things went.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Plus, you know, it's coming to an end, right? The school year.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  So you know, people are unwinding.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  And you're probably celebrating even just a little bit more.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  She was with her friends between 1:30 and 2:00 AM at a bar called The Bird Dog. Samantha somehow got separated from her friends. So she decided to call an Uber around 2:00 AM. She was captured on surveillance, standing outside a bar. At one point she approached a car, but it was not. Her Uber, then a newer model, black Chevy Impala pulled up to the curb. Samantha mistakenly thought it was her Uber and got into the back of the vehicle at 2:09 a.m. The car drove off with her and saw, and you know, let's talk about Uber for a little bit.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  And there were other companies as well, right? Lyft and some other ones that have been around here and there. But you know, you think about Uber or before the days of Uber.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 00

  You know, when we were younger and if you needed to ride somewhere, you better have a friend or a parent or somebody. Because there was no stranger who for money was going to come pick you up. Now, maybe there was, but it wasn't.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Regulated or legitimate or, you know.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Like you said, you had to know somebody and could find a pay phone to call them to come get you. Cause that's, that's how it had to be.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. And unfortunately, I think probably what that did was it, it did lead to a lot more people driving drunk.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Did.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  When they shouldn't obviously have been driving. I think Uber maybe went a long way with that because people stopped just driving to bars altogether. They would get an Uber to go to the bar, knowing they could drink, do whatever they wanted. Then they would just call an Uber or some car service to take them home later.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  I mean, look, there was a period of time and you know, right before the podcast started that you dabbled because you just wanted to experience it, which is another story, but you wanted to experience it. So you Ubered for a little bit and boy, did you have some great stories.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  It was fun.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. We loved hearing you come into the office, you know, the next day.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  And tell us about your Ubering the night before.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  I Ubered for a whole summer. Mainly because I was bored.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  And I was looking for kind of something else to do. But then what happened was I, I took all the money that I made from Uber and that's how I bought the podcast equipment.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  You did. Yeah.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  That's what led to the, the podcast. So, but it, it, it was fun. I'm not going to say it was fun every single time, but it was interesting.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  There's no doubt about that.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  And I know you picked up your fair share of. People that were drunk.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  Oh, a lot of, yeah, a lot of people were drunk.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 00

  For sure. So Samantha gets into this car. It drives off. Hours later, Samantha's roommates became concerned when they couldn't get in contact with her. Samantha's boyfriend, Greg Corbischley, was also worried. He was over two hours away in Charleston, South Carolina, where he had moved after graduation. Now, he had been on the phone with Samantha throughout the night. And later said he was tracking her phone to make sure she got home safely. He said he knew something was wrong moments after she got into the car. He tried calling her, but she didn't answer. He went to sleep thinking she left her phone in an Uber.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  When he woke up, he learned she was missing and he drove to Columbia.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Right there. What a nightmare.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, it would be. Yeah, you're a little worried. Eventually you gotta go to sleep, right? You can't get in contact with the person. You're, you're obviously probably not thinking that the worst has happened because most people don't think that.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  But what a shock to wake up the next morning and find out that, that she's missing. At 1:30 PM on March 29th, Samantha's roommates reported her missing after failing to get in contact with her. At 3:45 PM, officers from the Clarendon County Sheriff's Office, 65 miles southwest of Columbia, received a report that two turkey hunters found a woman's body in the woods, off a dirt road near the town of New Zion. And it doesn't surprise me, Gibbs, that hunters would find a body. I mean, how many cases have we done where victims' bodies have been found by hunters? It's, it's a lot. It's a high percentage.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  It really is a high percentage.

• 13:27Speaker 00

  And I think there's a reason for that. You know, if you think about where some killers decide to dispose of bodies, but usually in a place that they don't think anybody's going to be visiting anytime soon. Well, where do hunters usually go? Places where not a lot of other people go.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, they want to go to those less populated or non-populated areas so they can find the.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Whatever they're looking for.

• 13:59Speaker 00

  Hunting.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't go hunting, but I'm assuming that's a good strategy.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 00

  The body was found in a heavily wooded area with farmland nearby. Few people lived in this area. Investigators said someone would have to know how to get to the spot where the body was found, indicating that the killer was familiar with the area.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Local.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Local, we hear that quite a bit, right? If it's off the beaten path, something that, you know, someone not from the area would even have an idea about, a lot of times it does give the police that indication that this has got to be someone from around here, or else they would have had no way to know about this place. The body wasn't immediately identified, but by the early morning hours of March 30th, the victim was identified as Samantha Josephson. Samantha had wounds to the head, neck, face, upper body, leg and foot. A coroner's report listed her cause of death as multiple sharp force injuries.

• 15:08Speaker 00

  Around 8:30 PM on March 29th, the Columbia Police issued a missing person alert for Samantha with a photo and surveillance image showing the black Chevy Impala. Around 3 AM on March 30th, an officer pulled over a black Chevy Impala just two blocks from the Five Points area. The driver attempted to flee on foot, but was caught. He was identified as 24-year-old Nathaniel Rollins. So, you know, never good, right? Police try to pull you over, you immediately jump out the car and try to run for it.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  It doesn't scream out, hey, I'm an innocent person.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Not at all. It's like, oh shit, you found me. I gotta make a run.

• 15:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, because why else are you running for it or making a run for it? And then it got worse because officers searched the car and they found a large amount of blood in the trunk and interior of the vehicle. Testing confirmed it was Samantha Josephson's blood.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  So here's this guy that has the car she got in. He looks like he's trying to make another attempt, right? He's down there by the five points. Sounds like this is something that he might like doing.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, or because I can't imagine that he's trying to pick somebody else up with a bunch of blood in the interior. I'm thinking this is not that long after he just hasn't cleaned up yet.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Just hasn't cleaned it up.

• 16:47Speaker 00

  That's what I'm thinking, but you, I don't know, could be wrong.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 00

  You know, it's dark out. I mean, I, lights come on when you open the, the doors, but maybe somebody gets in, they don't notice it. Maybe he was out hunting. It's hard to say for sure. But Samantha's phone was also found in the passenger compartment along with bleach, sanitizing wipes and window clean.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  That does not look good.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  None of this looks good for Nathaniel, right? You already tried to run from police. When they tried to stop you unsuccessfully, they caught you. You've got a, a crime scene.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  A, a whole forensic labs, uh, dream inside of your car. And on top of that, the victim's phone is found in your car and you got a bunch of cleaning agents. So.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  It'll be hard to get out of this one.

• 17:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it, it, it would be, you know, a lot of cases that we do. Like last Sunday's case, it didn't look great for that person.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  But I wouldn't say there was a ton of smoking gun evidence. I would call this smoking gun evidence.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  I mean, it is really incriminating.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  The car's child safety locks had been activated, which meant the rear doors could not be opened from the inside.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  I hate that. Have you ever been in a car in the back when they had those activated and forgot? And then you get somewhere and everybody gets out and you go to grab and you're like, hey, you gotta let me out of here. I can't get out.

• 18:29Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, you know, I don't ride with anybody else.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Well, that is true.

• 18:33Speaker 00

  I always have to be the driver.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 00

  That's just a quirk of mine. I've been like that since I could drive. I do not like, because the one time I did, I got into like a rollover, six rollover accident.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 00

  When my buddy was driving and ever since then, I'm not taking that chance. I don't want to, to really ride with someone else. Now, you've experienced a lot because that's how cop cars work.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  That's a different type of locking system, but I just think that they should have, I mean, I love that they have this for child safety.

• 19:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, because you don't want a child being able to open a car door and jumping out at high speed.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  I just think there should be some type of override for an adult sitting, sitting back there that they can hit a certain button that the kids can't find. I don't know.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  I'm saying if you can do it, I'm sure a kid can do it.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Probably true.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  That is the problem. But, you know, that being said, if someone has something nefarious on their mind, well, that's a, I guess a good way to keep someone from getting out of your car.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 00

  So it is a little scary from that standpoint, but it also is just like everything, right? Somebody has a good idea. It doesn't mean somebody can't use it in a way for which it wasn't intended in a bad way. Because there's a lot of things that you could say that about.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  I guess you could always look as you, before you get in, look at the door, see if that little switch has been up or down and.

• 20:08Speaker 00

  To see if it's got the, the child lock on it.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  Nathaniel Roland was charged with murder and kidnapping. Columbia Police announced the charges against Roland on the evening of March 30th, noting that he had recently resided in New Zion and was familiar with the area where Samantha's body was found. Roland waived his right to appear in court. Samantha's mother, Marcy Josephson, said she was disappointed that they didn't get to see his evil face in court.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure she had some choice words and some choice looks that she wanted to give him.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  Both, yeah, I would think so. She said at the bond hearing, is quoted by WLTX, "Unlike him, Samantha valued human life and could never harm another soul. Unlike him, Samantha had love within her heart and a purpose in her life. The life he brutally ended. He took away our daughter, a sister, a granddaughter, a niece, a cousin, and a friend to so many. His selfish, unspeakable, and violent actions have created a hole in the universe, a hole in our universe, and we see the unimaginable ripple effect on our world."

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, wow. How well that was said.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that really sums up probably what a lot of victims feel.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  Or victims' families feel is like they just have this tremendous void in their life and there's nothing that's gonna fill it, nothing that's gonna replace it because that person is never coming back. Now, at least they know who did it.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 00

  And, yeah, is it great? No, your loved one is still deceased and was murdered, but we on our Unsolved Podcast talk about a lot of families who not only have that, but also have the added pain of never finding out exactly what happened and, more importantly, who was responsible.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Responsible, yeah.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  And that person never gets brought to justice. So, I mean... It's hard to say that there's a silver lining, but I think that's a, at least a, um, a good thing that, that this person was caught, captured, they know who did it.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:37Speaker 00

  In the aftermath of the murder, many expressed concern about the safety of rideshare apps. And, and you could see why.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  I mean, you think about the number of people who use those types of services and how it's grown through the years since they first came along. A lot of people.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  Use those. And let's face it, there was a time when you didn't know who you were getting in the car with. I mean, technically you still don't know, but you have a lot more information about the person.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think.

• 23:14Speaker 00

  Nowadays.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Now you get what the, what the car is supposed to look like and maybe even.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  Sometimes a picture. Um, so there you get a lot more information on the app. An Uber spokesperson issued a statement in early April 2019 that read, "Since 2017, we've been working with local law enforcement and college campuses across the country to educate the public about how to avoid fake rideshare drivers. Everyone at Uber is devastated to hear about this unspeakable crime, and our hearts are with Samantha Josephson's family and loved ones. We remain focused on raising public awareness about this incredibly important issue." Okay, that's a statement from Uber. I'm sure they mean it, but they also have to put

• 24:04Speaker 00

  that out.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  They do.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  I mean, let's face it, no company wants to have a murder linked to them.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  In the media. Uh, I'm not saying that the guy's lying, cause I'm, or whoever it was, was lying. I'm sure they did feel that way, but they almost really have to say that. Come out.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  They want to put something positive out.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  At a vigil for Samantha, Seymour Josephson said, he planned to make it his mission in life to keep others from suffering the same as his daughter. He said Samantha was by herself. She had absolutely no chance, none. The door was locked.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, couldn't get out, right?

• 24:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. He urged those listening to him to take their safety seriously and to never be out alone at night. Let's be honest, you guys are drinking, leaving the bar, or whatever it may be. If there's somebody else in the car, there's actually a chance. And there is some validity to that. I mean, there's that old adage, right? There's safety in numbers.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, the buddy system.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, it doesn't mean that someone couldn't attack two people, but are they less likely to? And I'd say the answer is probably yes.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 25:23Speaker 00

  We have covered so many killers on this podcast. And the one thing that stands out about most of them, especially serial killers, is that they prey upon people who they consider to be vulnerable people.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  Well, if you're alone, you're more vulnerable than you are if you're with somebody else. I think that just goes without saying.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Safety in numbers.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's true. He also wanted to ask rideshare companies about improving safety for passengers. Nathaniel Roland's parents, Henry and Loretta, also spoke out after his arrest, saying they believed in their son's innocence. And their hearts went out to Samantha's family.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Wow, that's, uh, it's hard to hear.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  That they believe in their son's innocence?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it doesn't surprise me, though. I mean, you know, think about all the, now, we normally talk more about the victim's family, but you have to, in some cases, talk about the perpetrator's family as well. They're going through something.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  They are.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  But I, I think of a lot of them, especially when it's like their son, their daughter.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  They have a real hard time believing that the person they raised could have done this horrible thing.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  I mean, if they haven't heard about all the evidence and they just heard that the police believe he's the one that did that, that's one thing, but, and I get it. You never want to believe your kid can do that.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  But man, when you see the evidence.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  Right, but it could be in spite of the evidence.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:06Speaker 00

  And, and also we don't know how much of the evidence was public.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:10Speaker 00

  You know, some of that may have come out later at trial, but we're telling it, you know, in a, in maybe a, a different chronology. But still, I, I think some parents, even with all the evidence.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 00

  Have a hard time facing the truth.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. My baby would never do something like that.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  I, I think that's, um, something that happens quite a lot. Henry Roland defended his son, saying he's a good kid. Ain't no way in the world he could do this. And I think a lot of parents, again, would feel like that. However, Henry said that if Nathaniel was guilty, he would have to pay the consequences. Saying, if he did it, I'll be the first one to put him behind bars, lock him up and throw away the key.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  That's a, that's a good follow through on, on the question, you know, that he was asked, you know?

• 28:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because he's saying, hey, I, I just can't believe, or we don't believe that he did it. But if he did, if he's guilty.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Yep. He needs to pay the price.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um, so I'm with you. I, I think it's, um, it's a very pragmatic way to look at it. Yeah. You want to believe your son is innocent, but if it turns out he's not, you're going to feel bad, but he deserves to, to be sentenced.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Just wonder if you're. You know, a parent of one of these killers. Do you feel like the responsibility, like, do you feel like maybe we didn't raise them?

• 28:42Speaker 00

  Oh, I guarantee you.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  I guarantee you, there's a ton of guilt. There's a ton of questions. What ifs, right? What if we did this differently? Is there something we could have done differently that would have maybe changed the outcome? It cannot be easy on, on the parents of perpetrators either.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 29:03Speaker 00

  Roland's mother, Loretta, also told W A C H that Nathaniel denied the allegations. She said, he's a very good young man. And when I talked to him yesterday, he told me that wasn't him and I believe. And again, this may be before, right? All of the evidence came out.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:24Speaker 00

  Days after the arrest, it was reported that Nathaniel Roland allegedly sold items stolen during another woman's alleged kidnapping months earlier. And that's pretty scary.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  It is.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  Cause that makes you believe that this was not a one time event. Now, it may be the only time he murdered, it may not be, but it certainly appears as though it wasn't the first time that he had done something along these lines.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Like almost, he could almost be a serial kidnapper and killer.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  Possibly, we don't know. On October 19th, 2018, a woman told the police that two men carjacked her while she was at a traffic light in Columbia. She was physically assaulted and forced to drive to an ATM to get money. The suspects made her drive to her home where they took items from inside and then fled the scene. Hours later, deputies said Nathaniel Roland sold some of those stolen items, including a PlayStation four at a pawn shop. Authorities traced the items to the pawn shop and arrested Roland. He was charged with obtaining goods under false pretenses. Columbia Police did not indicate Roland was involved in the carjack.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  And that to me makes it sound like he wasn't, that he somehow, or for however reason, got his hands on some of the stolen goods later on.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:54Speaker 00

  And then maybe he was the one tasked with pawning all of it and had to give some of the money to the other people. I don't know. But if he was involved in the carjacking, he would have been charged with a lot more.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  I think so too.

• 31:09Speaker 00

  The University of South Carolina held its spring commencement in May 2019. Samantha's family attended the ceremony and received her posthumous degree. He's just talking about heartbreaking.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  Thinking she should be here.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Absolutely. You know, this is what she worked hard for.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  President Harris pastides honored Samantha in a speech saying, "I'd like to take a moment to recognize and honor the life and legacy of Samantha Josephson, our cherished 21-year-old senior political science major, whose life was tragically taken from us, fellow Gamecocks, class of 2019. We must ensure what happened to Samantha never happens again to any college student, or indeed to any person. Asking what's my name before getting in a rideshare vehicle will save lives."

• 32:07Speaker 01

  That's a true statement.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I remember this pretty vividly when it happened. That was like a big thing coming in the aftermath of it, which was, "Start asking these rideshare drivers, hey, what's my name?"

• 32:25Speaker 00

  One of the many things, there was a bunch of different things that that came out.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  But even something as simple as that, right? I mean, what's the odds that a fraudster is going to know your name?

• 32:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, a complete stranger.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it's better. It doesn't cost anything, right? Easy to implement. Anyone can do it. Nathaniel Roland's murder trial started on July 18, 2021. The prosecution presented numerous pieces of evidence pointing to Roland as the killer. The jury heard that someone unsuccessfully attempted to use Samantha's debit card at an ATM in Sumter around 5:00 a.m. on March 29. Surveillance video showed someone wearing a bandana attempting to access the account. And police figured out that Roland's phone was in this location at the very same time.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  How many times have I said it? You know, digital footprint, cellphone data, tracking, it all comes back to bite you.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Really does.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  I still, it is hard for me to believe that people get away still with as many crimes as they do.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  I am surprised as well.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  With all the new technology that we have, all the cameras that are around.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  I heard a special the other day on that geo fencing. And really how far they can dial that down to, and it's amazing.

• 33:58Speaker 00

  Pretty crazy.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Pretty crazy. If they, if they actually need to use that tool, and then the courts give them the rights to do it, they can pretty much show up at your front door. Yeah.

• 34:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, which is gonna stink if you just happen to be in an area and you didn't have anything to do with it. But, you know, to me, if it leads to finding the real killer, let's just say a killer, right? And a murder, is it that big a deal to have police ask you some questions? I get it. Some people will say, yeah, it is. It's an invasion of my privacy. They don't want it. I understand that. To me, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I know I didn't do anything wrong. And if it, if it helps lead to the right person, I would be more than happy to. To answer some questions.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  You're gonna have that be a 50 50, I think.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think a lot of people are gonna say no.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, because where does it stop?

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Right, and it is a slippery slope.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  You do have to be careful with with some of those things. Roland's phone then traveled to his girlfriend's home. Roland's girlfriend Maria Howard testified that she and Roland had known each other for years. And in March 2019, he was staying overnight at her home regularly. On March 28, she asked him to wash her work shirt and left her work visor in his car. He was home when she went to bed, but when she went downstairs early the next morning, he was gone. He didn't answer her texts and eventually showed up in the clothes he was wearing the night before. Which normally doesn't go over well.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:40Speaker 00

  With men and women.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  In any type of relationship, because it denotes that one of the people was doing something they shouldn't have been doing. Now, I would say more often than not, it's a fair or something like that. Less likely that it's murder, but it could be.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  There's still a story that has to be told. Where were you and what did you do?

• 36:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, and if you were doing something you shouldn't have been, you're still gonna have to come up with a lie.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:10Speaker 00

  She noticed that her work visor was missing. She asked him where it was, and he said he'd been out in the country and no longer had it because it had blood on it.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Okay, that's a strange response. Why not just say, I don't know what happened to it? You know, why go to that extent?

• 36:29Speaker 00

  Again, maybe we're not talking about the smartest person in the world. I have no idea what this guy's IQ was, but it is a strange thing to say, because now you have to believe there's gonna be a follow up question.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. How can you tell that to somebody and not expect a follow up question?

• 36:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, because it's gonna be, okay, so now tell me, why was there blood? How did it get in your car? Then you have to, you know, come up with an answer for that. But when she asked him why, he told her, mind your business.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Mind your business. I bet that went over well.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. So apparently you don't have to come up with a lie. You can just tell someone to mind their own business.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  Roland briefly left to take his nephew to school. When he returned, he had her work shirt, but it was wet. When she got into his car so he could drive her to work, she noticed dried blood throughout the car, which worried her.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  And as it should.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  I think anybody should be worried if they see, you know, dried blood all over the, the car. Later that day, she got a ride home from a coworker. When she returned, she found Roland cleaning the car with bleach and wipes. He continued cleaning the car and the multi-tool in the passenger seat as she drove the car to pick up her daughter.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Okay. He was really trying to get it clean.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, I mean, we need to get the blood out before we go pick up her daughter. Apparently this is the one car and it has to be used by everybody. So, um, not a lot of options. I'm still, you know, again, I, I get it. I don't know what this relationship was like.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  And there is a, some people who know at a certain point, they can't press any further because it's going to get out of hand. But I would have a hard time being satisfied with the mind your business in, in relation to this question of where all this blood came from.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Sure. But you have to be somewhat concerned too, that he's cleaning this multi-tool. I mean, I know you, you have several multi-tools.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  I have five of them in this studio. I love multi-tools.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  And I know some of them can have a fairly large blade in them.

• 38:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. Then most of them have a, a fairly good sized knife blade. So.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  I don't know if that maybe even, that could have been the weapon used.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, uh, we may talk about it.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  When they returned home, Roland left and returned with a rose gold iPhone. It looked like a woman's phone. Roland said he was getting it ready for her, but she didn't need a phone at the time. She asked about the blood again repeatedly, but again, he told her to mind your business.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Mind your business. I'm telling you right now, I don't know too many people that would be okay with that.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  I don't know many women who are okay with the mind your business.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  A routine, but also all of a sudden you've got, you got me a rose gold iPhone. When I don't need an iPhone, that's gotta be kind of a, a strange thing as well. iPhones are not cheap.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  That's exactly.

• 39:53Speaker 00

  As any of us who have one know, when she saw a news report about Samantha Josephson and the suspect vehicle, then it all started making sense to her. But she didn't go to police because she was scared for herself and her daughter. After Roland's arrest, the police talked to her. So obviously that's when all of the, you know, the information we just talked about would have come out.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I feel, I feel what, feel bad for her because I understand, you know, her concern. Like I can't go to the police and risk him finding out. And now me and my daughter are at, are at danger.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, if this guy literally just killed somebody.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Then is he going to be, um, that worried about killing you or your daughter? If he thinks you're gonna put him in jail. That, that's a real fear.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  It is.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  There's no way around that. The jury heard that during the early morning traffic stop on March 30th, Roland cooperated until he was told that his car matched a suspect's vehicle. That's the point where he got out and fled. Roland thought he got rid of the evidence, but it comes back to the clothing. This was according to prosecutor Daniel Goldberg. Roland was wearing the same hoodie seen on the ATM surveillance video. Gloves seen on the video were found at his girlfriend's home. The shoes and bandana from the surveillance video were found in his car.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Pretty solid.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, pretty hard to argue. And then you have Samantha's DNA. It was found on Roland's beanie. Her blood was also found on the bandana. He hadn't gotten rid of those items because he didn't see the blood on them.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  And you and I talk about blood a lot, and that's the one thing you hear, you know, whether it's trying to clean up a crime scene, or when you murder someone up close and personal, and there's blood spatter, you have no idea where that blood spatter is gonna go. And, you know, you can wash, you can do all types of things, but you're not gonna catch all of it.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  No, you're not.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  Unless you strip down and you literally burn everything you have on, which he thankfully did not do.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Right, right. But that's what you'd have to do. Everything you had on and the vehicle with it.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, because short of that, they're gonna find it. If they, if they know who you are. Samantha's blood was also found on the multi-tool, which was found in the trash at Maria Howard's home. A DNA expert would testify that Samantha's DNA was found under Roland's nails. But his DNA was not under her nails. An unidentified individual's DNA was found on the handle of the multi-tool. Samantha's DNA was found on the blade. So, you know, it's looking like you were, you were right about that, that this multi-tool

• 43:05Speaker 00

  that he was trying to clean is looking like the murder weapon.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Samantha's footprint was also found on the window inside Roland's car.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is, you know, was that her trying to kick the window out? Or was that her struggling during?

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Both, both maybe.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  But either way, it's heartbreaking to think about.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 43:27Speaker 00

  What she went through in the backseat of that car. Dr. Thomas Beaver, a forensic pathologist, told the jury Samantha was stabbed over 100 times.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  And had facial injuries that looked as if she was dragged. The stab wounds were parallel, which is unlike a traditional knife and would have had to have come from something unique. He believed the multi-tool was the murder weapon.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Over a hundred times. This guy's a monster.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I mean, that is hideous. The multi-tool has two parallel blades bent at the tip. So I don't know. Every multi-tool is a little bit different.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  I don't know what type of multi-tool has two parallel blades. Like I said, I have a bunch of them, but I don't have any that have parallel blades on them. Dr. Beaver also testified that the body typically holds a gallon of blood, but only 20 milliliters of blood, which is about two tablespoons.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  Was found in Samantha's body indicating she bled out.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, well, if you're going to be stabbed over a hundred times, I can see that happening.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  And if it happens in the backseat of the car.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  Well, now I think, you know, we're, we're understanding a little bit better why there was so much blood.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  Inside of that car.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Wow. And I just think about her family hearing this, learning this, right? During, during the different stages of the investigation and, and what that had to do to them. I mean, it's just devastating to hear your daughter was attacked like that. And then to hear that almost all her blood was drained out of her body.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it's, it's always has to be tough for the family, right? To sit in the courtroom and hear all the, the details.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  Of what happened to your loved one. Neck wounds to the jugular and carotid artery and a severed hyoid bone, along with stab wounds to the head were lethal and caused the loss of blood. Surveillance and video analyst, Justin Martin testified that Roland and Samantha's phones traveled together out of the five points area for a short time before hers stopped showing up. Roland's phone pinged until it went to a remote area in Clarendon County, where Samantha's body was found. The defense didn't present any witnesses and Roland chose not to testify.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. What was he gonna say?

• 46:09Speaker 00

  Well, I don't know what witnesses they would have. Who are they gonna call?

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  Um, I don't think you get no alibi witnesses.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  No.

• 46:20Speaker 00

  I mean, you don't call character witnesses, right? Until more of the, the penalty phase. I don't know. Maybe you can, but normally you see that more in like the, the, the penalty phase of the trial. But either way, that doesn't, it's not gonna sway a jury, even if they did have some people like that. During closing arguments, the defense noted that Roland's DNA was not found on Samantha's body. And his DNA wasn't found on the handle of the murder weapon. Roland had no cuts and bruises on his body. And there were two unidentified male DNA profiles found during testing.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  Defense attorney Tracy Pennock argued that the narrative is getting skewed. She noted that during the traffic stop, Roland cooperated until his arm was allegedly grabbed. And another officer lunged at him. She argued that blood transfers easily, which is why there was a large amount of blood in the car. Prior to processing the car, detectives were in the woods in New Zion, where the body was found. Okay, I get it. I say it all the time. I understand that defense attorneys have to try to pull something out of their hat, but this is, it's a stretch.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Not even trying to pull something out of their hat at this point.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  It's pulling something out of

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:46Speaker 00

  The opposite end.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get what you're saying, but they have to do something for their client to make the claim that this large amount of blood that's found in the car was dragged in there by these cops that, that came from the woods? That, that doesn't make any sense to me.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 00

  Samantha's body was found in the woods, but there was no dirt or debris on Roland's clothing. Three pairs of shoes in his car had no blood on them. First of all, who has three pairs of shoes in their car? I don't even have three pairs of shoes in my closet.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  No, but you got about 12 pairs down here.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  I know there are a lot of people who are into shoes.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  I get it. I'm not one of them, but, uh, but, but what does that mean? Right? Okay. So there's three pairs in there that don't have any blood on them.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Maybe he threw one, that pair away.

• 48:43Speaker 00

  No, you mean the pair he was wearing?

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, I don't know what the absence of blood on that means. I do know what the presence of blood on other things.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  Means and what it would mean to the jury. Pennock also noted that Maria Howard's DNA was found on bags containing bloody clothes. Roland's DNA was part of a mixture of DNA on the multi-tool, but he was not a major contributor. Pennock argued, if the state is going to tell you that Josephson did not have Roland's DNA on her because he was wearing gloves, but there is his DNA on the tool, that is contradictory. In their closing statement, the prosecution argued that there was no other credible suspect and the killing was cold malicious and intentional. Well, the last part I agree with, the no other credible suspect argument.

• 49:38Speaker 00

  I mean, I think if I'm a juror, I'm not putting a lot of stock in that just because you don't have another suspect.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  Doesn't mean this guy's guilty. Now, if you want to point to all the evidence, okay. You can do that. I don't like that statement, I guess.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  I see what you're saying.

• 49:56Speaker 00

  Just because to me, it doesn't mean anything. Although Samantha freely got into the car, the moment she began fighting to get out, it became a kidnapping.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  The prosecution also noted that if it hadn't been for the turkey hunters, it's unlikely Samantha's body would have ever been found because no one would go out there unless you were a local.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was just gonna say that was a local, I mean, that was a fortunate find.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  The discovery by the hunters. Yeah, because if her body's not found, then you, you would have lost a lot of evidence if it was found much later on.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if it was never found, this would be one we would be having on the other podcast.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  Or they would have had to try it as a no body case, which obviously makes it harder.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Much harder.

• 50:49Speaker 00

  Even if they thought it was him, no doubt, it's harder. On July 27, 2021, Nathaniel Rowland was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison. Before sentencing, Rowland told the judge, I know I'm innocent, but I guess what I know and what I think really doesn't matter.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  No, not really. I mean, your girlfriend said you were sitting there. You had blood in your car. You were cleaning. You had wipes. You mean, you knew what you were doing.

• 51:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of evidence.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  Right. Stacked up against this guy. I get it. What's he supposed to say? Yeah, you got me.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's going to argue it, right? I mean, why wouldn't you want to argue it? You're going to continue to argue it, hoping that somebody will change the outcome, but it's not going to happen.

• 51:38Speaker 00

  No, it's not going to happen. Since Samantha's murder, state and federal legislation has been passed to enhance ride share safety. In June 2019, South Carolina passed the Samantha Josephson Ride Sharing Safety Act. The laws mandate stricter identification and safety regulations such as illuminated signs. New Jersey passed Sammy's Law, which also required illuminated signs for ride share vehicles. On January 5, 2023, Joe Biden signed Sammy's Law, which enhanced ride share safety on a national level.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Good.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  Well, I think it just shows you what this case did.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:22Speaker 00

  It scared the you-know-what out of people.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  As it should have.

• 52:26Speaker 00

  Over what really was the lack of safety precautions or things built in to the whole ride sharing concept.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  I mean, not even. Just in college campus life, right? Just everywhere. But I mean, think about, you know, your kids went off to college.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Sure. I got one still there.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Still there that could or maybe have taken Ubers. You would want to know that there's the best protocol out there, safety protocol, that can be used to help protect them. And, you know, unfortunately, back then, there wasn't. So this is something good. I think it, as a parent, I think you, you never really sleep great when your kids are away, but you're asleep somewhat better, right?

• 53:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  You're gonna know.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Even nowadays, when we have things like the Apple apps, or, you know, Life 360, things like that, where you can track loved ones' phones, I can't go to sleep if my daughter is out somewhere.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  Down at school. Now, I, I stay up pretty late anyway. So that's not normally a problem, but I gotta see her get home. I gotta get that notification that she's home.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  Before I can go to sleep. The law required the Government Accountability Office to submit a biennial report to Congress regarding the incidents of assaults involving drivers and passengers of four higher vehicles, such as Uber and Lyft. It requires rideshare drivers to display lighted signs and scannable QR codes as a safety regulation, and criminalizes misrepresentation of being a driver of a ridesharing service. Samantha's parents also established the What's My Name Foundation to educate people about rideshare safety and advocate for policies that enhance safety.

• 54:33Speaker 00

  The nonprofit created the SAMI acronym, which is Stop, Ask, Match, Inform, to encourage safety.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  I mean, that's awesome. And I remember her dad saying that he was gonna do everything he could.

• 54:49Speaker 00

  He said it was gonna make it his life's mission.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Mission. Yes.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  And, and he did.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  He did.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  I think he did. But this is a lot of times what we see, right? In the wake of a tragedy. Especially parents kind of doing something in the name of their loved one. Uh, number one, it's going to help a lot of people out, but also it helps honor their loved one.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 00

  You know, they named all of these acts after her and you know, these are all good things that were, that are put in play.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  But it, you know, as we wrapped this one up, it's a pretty infamous case. A lot of people remember it. You know, I, I can't help but feel, and I have throughout the episode, from the time that we talked about her, you know, trying to get out of that backseat and finding out that the door was locked. The horror that she must have felt.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  In that, that moment. And then to find out that she was stabbed a hundred times. It just, it just goes to show you the brutality of this crime. I mean, it was, it was that brutal.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  And all for what? You know, I mean, really what? He's never going to say, cause he says he's innocent, but.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Why? Why would you do something like that?

• 56:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. What was the reason? He, you know, again, like you said, he hasn't come out and said what the reason was because he's still maintaining his, his innocence. He got life in prison. He deserves that. He doesn't deserve to, to be out walking.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  No, not at all.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  For what he did.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Not a good kid.

• 56:28Speaker 00

  No, not at all. But that's it for our episode on Samantha Josephson. And that's it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  And Gibby.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.