Egypt Covington

Egypt Covington was an aspiring singer who was murdered inside her home in Bellevue, Michigan. Initially, investigators looked into the people closest to Egypt. After the Michigan State Police took over the case, they discovered something astonishing about Egypt's killers. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Egypt Covington. Not one single person had an unkind word to say about Egypt. She didn't have a single enemy. So why was she killed? When police pieced together the evidence in this case, it turned out that Egypt's killers mistook her apartment for another, which led to her death. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hello everyone and welcome to episode 493 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gaby, how are you?

• 0:10Speaker 01

  I'm doing okay. How about you?

• 0:11Speaker 00

  I'm doing great, man.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  I am excited to get into another episode.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Well, me too.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  All right, let's do it. We're talking about Egypt Covington. Egypt Covington was an aspiring singer who was murdered inside her home in Bellevue, Michigan. Now initially investigators looked into the people closest to Egypt as they always do.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 0:34Speaker 00

  We know that. But after the Michigan State Police took over the case, they discovered that the killers targeted her by mistake.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  We're gonna get into it. Egypt Covington was born on July 19th, 1989 in Detroit. She grew up in Belleville, Michigan. She enjoyed practicing yoga, playing golf and bow hunting.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Really?

• 0:59Speaker 00

  But the thing she loved the most was singing. She dreamed of having a career in the music industry.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  You know, I enjoy singing and yoga at the same time. I can do that. You know, I don't want to show off. I can do that one yoga.

• 1:12Speaker 00

  I don't know what that is. Are you sure you're not mixing up yoga with the Kama Sutra?

• 1:19Speaker 00

  I just want to make sure. That was like some weird.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  You do the Kama Sutra with others or other.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  I think you can do yoga with others as well. I don't know. But Egypt won Eastern Michigan's Regional Country Idol.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:34Speaker 00

  Competition in 2014 and she once auditioned for the show The Voice.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41Speaker 00

  So, you know, big time. She must've been a pretty good singer. She was described as the type of person who was the life of the party. Probably not something that would be said about either of us.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  We can party.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  We can.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  I don't know that we'd ever be the life of the party.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  More of a sit back in that corner and just watch.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  Egypt and her brother Dwayne Turner worked together as bartenders at Fraser's Pub in Ann Arbor. They were popular among customers and were known for their performances involving flaming bottles of alcohol.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Oh, that's fun.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. It was said that a lot of regulars came in just to see Egypt. So, you know, kind of reminds me a little bit of that movie Cocktail.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  Remember that one with Tom Cruise, you know?

• 2:30Speaker 01

  That girl named Jordan?

• 2:32Speaker 00

  I don't remember the girl, but.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. You just remember Tom?

• 2:35Speaker 00

  I don't even remember the movie that much, other than they were, he was doing a lot of bottle flipping.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  I don't know if there, there was anything flaming, but he was flipping bottles.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  He did flip a lot of bottles, you know?

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Egypt's friend Kyle Kopick told Fox Two Detroit, "It didn't matter if you knew her for 10 years or 10 minutes. You wanted to be with her and to know and to be around her. She made everybody feel so good about themselves and always had somebody's back."

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Oh, I love people like that.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, you know, we talk about a lot of different types of people.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  You know, in these episodes, you have some people that obviously do very bad things, are not very nice. And then you have some people who it just seems that they're universally loved.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  By everyone who meets them, knows them. And I mean, that's really the vibe that you get here about Egypt. In 2017, 27-year-old Egypt was planning to start a new chapter with her boyfriend Curtis Meadows. Curtis said about Egypt, "She had this amazing candy talent of seeing you right into your heart. When you met Egypt, you walked away better, feeling better about your day and yourself."

• 3:54Speaker 01

  And that is a special talent right there.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it is a talent. I think you're absolutely right. Now, some of it's just natural, right? But to be the type of person that people want to be around and for others to genuinely say that they feel better after having, you know, talked to you or whatever. I mean, that's just.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  I don't even know what to say. Those are the type of people you want to be around.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's amazing person.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. Egypt had recently gotten a job as a sales rep for rave associates, a craft beer and wine distributor. She was still though, pursuing her dream of being a singer. After five years of an on and off again, relationship, Egypt and Curtis were fully committed and they had decided to move in together.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  It's a big decision.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  It is a big decision. Um, you know, five years is a long time, but, uh, I always say it. I, I think there is, you know, the relationship when you live apart. And then there is the relationship where you're living under the same roof and you're with someone almost, you know, most of your day, except for when you're at work.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  There's definitely things that you don't know about that person that happens. Why you are not with them. That maybe, maybe not, they would have issues with. I don't know.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  Well, you learn things about people when you live with them. There's, and, and sometimes you learn that there are some things that you, uh, you don't like.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  It's not okay with that.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  About that person. Like, like you said, Egypt first met Curtis when she was 20 and he was 28. At first, the timing wasn't right for either of them. Curtis explained the Dateline that he had a young daughter and he was working a nine to five job while Egypt worked late hours as a bartender. And often got home when he was just kind of waking up to start his day.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, those are rough hours to, uh, try to have a relationship in at the same time.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and especially to try to start one.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  So I, I can understand why the timing wasn't right. Egypt was seen on the night of June 22nd, 2017. She attended a yoga class with a friend. She texted her stepmother about getting off the family phone plan. And texted her siblings about wanting a puppy and also a photo of her niece.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  I mean, who doesn't want a puppy?

• 6:36Speaker 00

  Puppies are awesome.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  I like puppy breath. I mean, it just sounds like normal stuff, right?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  It does.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  Normal, everyday.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Type things. On June 23rd, Egypt didn't respond to Curtis's usual good morning text. And normally he said, she always responded within 15, 20 minutes.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  And so, you know, here's kind of the, the point that we always get to where, you know, when does someone start to worry? Now, I don't know that we're at that point, just because you've gone past the 15, 20 minute mark. But obviously, we know it's going to get there. And, and looking back, this is the first kind of indicator.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Do you text your wife, "Good morning, baby"?

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Um, no.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  No, my wife gets up like four hours before I do.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  She's already up. She already had her good morning by the time you wake up.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  And goes to bed like six hours before I do. So we have very different schedules, but.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  You probably don't want to rub it in when you say, "Good morning, baby."

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's like.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  "I've been up for four hours."

• 7:42Speaker 00

  It's 10 o'clock.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, she wouldn't like that. She's getting ready to have lunch probably, or, you know, whatever.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  So he said, Curtis did, that he wasn't worried at first, but as the hours passed with no contact, he became concerned. And so he decided to stop by Egypt's duplex afterward. He found her car in the driveway and the exterior door to the unit's open. Once inside, Egypt's apartment was on the left and her neighbor's apartment was on the right. Curtis walked in and was greeted by Egypt's dog, Ruby, who was trying to lead him somewhere.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  He took a few more steps inside and found Egypt's body on the living room floor. And, you know, we talk about dogs a lot. Dogs are amazing for a variety of reasons.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 00

  You know, we talk about specialty dogs, cadaver dogs, drug sniffing dogs, but just regular, everyday pets.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yep. Loyal.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  They do stuff like this. You know, they know something is wrong with their mom.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  And as soon as they. Uh, or as soon as the dog sees Curtis, it'll like, hey, help, come help.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Check this out.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, I mean, i- it's heartbreaking all around. Obviously, we know that a young woman has lost her life.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Egypt had been shot in the back of the head. Her hands were bound behind her back with Christmas lights.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  And, and as a boyfriend, a husband, a partner, I, I just think, I don't even know what you, I don't even know how you process the scene.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Can't even fathom what he had to think at that moment.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  No. He was in shock. He ran outside to get his phone to call 911. Curtis said in his 911 call, "I just showed up at my girlfriend's house and I walked inside. She's there tied up. She's dead. There's blood around her head. She's dead." He could be heard sobbing as he waited for the police to arrive. Officers from the Van Buren Township Police Department responded to the call. The police confirmed Egypt was killed by one gunshot to the head. One of her couch cushions was pressed against her head to muffle the gunshot.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Sounds almost like a, like a hit.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, or somebody who knows, I mean, I guess you don't have to know something about trying to lower the sound of a gunshot. I mean, movies, TV, we've all seen somebody use a pillow or in this case, a, a couch cushion. But a lot of times when you think about, you know, one to the head, right? That, that is kind of a hit type mentality.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  Now you've got the cushion involved. I see how you could maybe make that connection.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  The hands tied behind the back with, you know, Christmas tree lights.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. Seems like a strange thing to use, but that may have been the only thing that the person saw, you know, right away.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  Egypt's mother Tina recalled the devastation of learning that her daughter was dead. She said, I just dropped and all I can remember is screaming and crying. Not my baby. And how could that happen? It was like mommy wasn't there for you, you know? How could I have protected you? What could I have done better? But to know that she was scared to death and she knew she was gonna die. Just, it just makes me feel like, why? That just breaks your heart. Yeah, it really does. Egypt's father Chuck Covington told Ann Arbor News at the time, what was she thinking 30 seconds before? What was she going through 30 seconds before?

• 11:45Speaker 00

  15 seconds before? Was she crying out for dad or mom? There's grief, but that's what brings up the anger. And that's again, you know, where I call out for anyone that knows anything to talk to the police. Because this entity, this animal, this pathetic son of a bitch, whoever could have done that, death isn't good enough for them. That doesn't bring her back.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  I mean, you think about this woman that everybody she touched, right? Egypt, every person that she touched was better for it.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were better for having known her.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Somebody does this to her.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  So I think, you know, there's a couple of things here, right? As the police, you're thinking, number one, who has a problem with this woman? Who everybody seems to universally love? And then obviously, you know, you feel for the boyfriend, but you feel for the mom and dad.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  I mean, these comments that they're making. What was she thinking 30 seconds before? I wasn't there to help my baby. I mean, these are really tough, tough emotions that they're going through.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  How scared she had to be.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. Three days after Egypt was killed, the Van Buren Township Police said the murder did not appear to be random, and she likely knew her killer. And I get it, they're making that assessment. I think, you know, that there's a good chance it's not random because most murders aren't, you know? There's a very high percentage of murders where the victim and the killer are known to each other. Investigators looked at those closer, closest to Egypt.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  Including Curtis Meadows.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  I mean, that's a given.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  They have to, right? You always look at the boyfriend, the husband, the ex-husband, or the girlfriends.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  Ex-wife, wife. Curtis was cooperative and passed up polygraph. He was eventually ruled out as a suspect. And, you know, I've made no secret of it. I'm not a huge fan of polygraph tests.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 13:57Speaker 00

  But obviously, if you know you didn't do it, and he felt comfortable taking the polygraph, it's going to go a long way in, in, you know, the police's mind of thinking, well, obviously, he didn't have anything to do with it. Number one, he's cooperative and he's willing to take the polygraph.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  I think it's a good gauge, too. You know, I think during the test, they can ask questions that you are going to either confirm or deny.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  Are you telling me that's how a polygraph works? There's questions?

• 14:34Speaker 01

  It was just, just in case you didn't know.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Okay. Explain to the audience.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  You're doing it in front of the police, so now you have, if their story ever changes, you can say, well, we asked you these questions. You said no, yes, whatever you said. And now you're contradicting yourself.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  Well, that's a great point because we talk a lot of times about police kind of locking in people's stories.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  That's another way to do it.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Sure it is.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Right outside of just kind of in, inside the interrogation room, a polygraph does that as well.

• 15:09Speaker 00

  Police also questioned Egypt's ex-boyfriend Kenny Mitchell. Five days before Egypt was killed, she and Kenny got into an argument at a local strawberry festival. Egypt's stepmother Kristen told Dateline that Egypt planned to tell Kenny, who wasn't taking the breakup well, that she could no longer have him in her life because she had moved on with Curtis.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  I mean, good for her, right? I mean, that's what you should do when you're in a new relationship is, you know, in that old one.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  And be honest.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  And be honest, like, hey, we had whatever we had. Good knowing you, but.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know if, I don't know if that's the exact way I would word it. People may not take that.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  But to be fair to my new relationship, I gotta let you go.

• 15:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think that part's fair, but I'll see you when I see you, or whatever you said's a little.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  I'll see you when I see you.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  But police also noted that Kenny failed the polygraph test. Kenny told police and a P I hired by Egypt's family that on the night of the murder, he was bar hopping with friends. He returned home alone and streamed shows on his phone. Kenny also said he handed over his phone to authorities to confirm his alibi. He denied harming Egypt and said she was like family to him. And, okay, you know, when you fail the polygraph.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 00

  It's not good.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  Doesn't help you. Also, you know, this alibi, when you're home alone. Now, is your phone going to be able to confirm that shows were streaming? Okay, maybe, maybe they can, you know, figure that out from your account or whatever, but you're also going to need to know exactly where that phone was and there's going to be some more components to it.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  I mean, it doesn't sound like it's us. Solid, solid alibi.

• 17:09Speaker 00

  No, no, I mean, even if the phone was there and it somehow showed that you streamed Netflix all night.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  Well, how do we know you were there?

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Maybe the phone was. Maybe the phone was just on and, and doing its thing. Now, Egypt's family was divided by suspicion. In March 2018, the Van Buren Township Police named Kenny as a person of interest. They noted that he was not a suspect. Police had interviewed him in the past, but were hoping he would return to speak with them about the circumstances surrounding Egypt's death. And I don't know how he couldn't be a person of interest. He's the ex.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  He apparently didn't take the breakup all that well, and he failed a polygraph.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  And his alibi is not rock solid.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's not rock solid. Egypt's mother Tina was convinced Kenny was not involved and publicly stood by him.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 18:05Speaker 00

  So that's a big deal.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  It is.

• 18:06Speaker 00

  But Egypt's father Chuck supported the direction that the police were taking.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:13Speaker 00

  So there, there's the division.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Got a little disagreement with the family members.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Yep. And tensions between the family and investigators rose when Lindsey Brink, the girlfriend of Egypt's brother Dwayne, launched her own investigation. She questioned suspects, asked police-type questions and called for the Michigan State Police to take over the case.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Well, that's definitely gonna cause some ripples.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's gonna ruffle the feathers, right, of, of local authorities. And, you know, we, we talked about it in a recent case where, you know, the family decided to launch their own investigation. That one did not work out well, but I don't think it's unusual, especially. If the family, and I think this happens quite a bit, is not 100% sure that police are doing everything they should be doing.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's gonna have an impact on the ego of the investigators of the current case, right? I mean, you're basically saying, you know, we appreciate what you're doing, but we don't think you're qualified.

• 19:19Speaker 00

  You're messing it up, or you're not, you're not getting the results quick enough, or whatever it is.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  It's like being put on the bench.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think it's gonna strain the relationship, and it often does. Lindsay began copying top Michigan State Police officials and all her email correspondence about the case. She also started an online petition and organized a public protest. So she kinda did more than just kind of question the police and how well they were doing. I mean, she was really railing against them.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, she didn't put a flashlight on it, she put a spotlight on it.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  Although she never knew Egypt personally, she took on this mission, according to her, because of the man that I love so dearly, Dwayne, and that's why I wanted him and her family to find justice, which, okay.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 00

  Obviously, she was newer to the family because she didn't even know Egypt. In June 2020, Egypt's family held a rally on the third anniversary of her murder, asking for the Michigan State Police to take over the investigation. Her family wanted to send the message that they would not stop applying pressure to the Van Buren Township Police. Now, you get three years on, I can imagine the family's frustration is grown to, maybe it's breaking point by that time.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  I mean, sometimes you need some fresh eyes coming in to look at stuff.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, it doesn't hurt.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:51Speaker 00

  But as we've often talked about, you know, people, some departments, they really wanna hold on.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  They don't wanna let other people help. Sometimes.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Departments turned down the help of the FBI.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  They do, yeah.

• 21:08Speaker 00

  Which, which I always think is strange because the FBI has incredible resources.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  And, and the amount of experience.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  They have.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and I, I think a lot of times it is ego, right? We can solve this ourselves. We don't need any outside help. Egypt's brother Dwayne told Fox to Detroit, we're not against authority. We are against injustice. Lindsey's efforts paid off in August, 2020, when the Michigan State Police took over the case. The MSP ruled Kenny Mitchelak out as a suspect and soon found evidence that pointed in a new direction. They conducted a geofence search that identified phones in the area at the time of the murder. And that's fascinating technology.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  And you, you immediately would say, why didn't the township police do that at that time?

• 22:02Speaker 00

  Probably because they didn't have the resources.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  They didn't.

• 22:04Speaker 00

  Or the technology.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there's the difference between sometimes going with a more.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  A bigger, yeah. I mean, obviously the, the state police are going to have more resources than a local.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  Township police department, just like the FBI is going to have more resources than all of them. But, um, I, I still don't understand it. Why, why some departments are so hesitant to either ask or even accept help when it's offered.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  I think you're always better off working together.

• 22:37Speaker 00

  But, uh, this geofence search, right? You're not, you're not looking at one person's phone records to see where they are. You're looking for any phone in the area.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  It's going to give you a, a pool of phones and then you can figure out what you want to do with it from there.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  Detective James Plummer determined that one of those phones was in Egypt's house. At the time, police believe she was killed. The phone was linked to Shandon Groom, an Ohio man with no obvious connection to Egypt. Surveillance footage showed Groom's blue truck pulling into a convenience store near her duplex around the time of the murder. So. You know, you can say what you want about the family, you know, should they have railed so hard against the, the local police department? You can say what you want about the local police department, but there's no denying the

• 23:35Speaker 00

  fact that the state police kind of broke this thing once they got their hands on it.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, seems like it didn't take them very long.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  No, so, I mean, that part is kind of undeniable. According to NBC, while geo fencing is a useful tool for law enforcement, its future is uncertain. You know, it allows law enforcement to gather anonymous location data for anyone whose location history is turned on and is in a designated area during a designated time. According to Google, this setting is off by default.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  I mean, look, is it a perfect tool? No, but it's a tool.

• 24:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Right? It's a tool that if you can access that information, it may or may not help at all. But in this case, it seems like it might be helping.

• 24:26Speaker 00

  Well, i- it's one of those tools where you can't exclude people.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Because if the killer had their location turned off, they wouldn't show up. So just because your phone wasn't there, you can't exclude somebody, but it could help identify an individual and it seems like that's kind of what it did here. Investigators use the data to identify and track up potential suspects, movements in or around a, a crime scene. Google is the main recipient of most geo fence warrants. In December 2023, Google announced that throughout 2024, changes would be introduced. So users' location data is unavailable to Google.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  They probably got tired of getting all those, uh, warrants.

• 25:14Speaker 00

  Or people thought it was an invasion of privacy. I mean, there are a lot of things that people think are an invasion of privacy. I don't like the fact that I searched for something on Google and then the next time I go on YouTube, the very first ad I see is what is, is exactly what I just searched for.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Of course. Or just, just sitting here, if we talked about something with our phones here.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  You'd go in and you see it, but you know, talking about, you know, the, uh, this, this geo.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  Fencing?

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Fencing here. I mean, you see when you pull up something and it says, do you want to use this app only when the app is open all the time sometime?

• 25:53Speaker 00

  Never.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Never. Yeah. I mean, when you say when the app is open or all the time, you're you're allowing this to happen.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  Well, there's pros and cons, right? I like the fact that I can track my my girls and see where they are.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 26:06Speaker 00

  At any point, especially if they're out going somewhere at night or they're going, you know.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Why are you tracking me?

• 26:12Speaker 00

  Out to the bar.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  I still don't understand that.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's why I put you on my cell phone plan. So I know exactly where you are at all times.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  I do like that because it doesn't cost me.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  I know. That's that's how I know how ready I have to be. Do I have five minutes notice or 30 minutes notice of of Givi being able to be in my perimeter?

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:34Speaker 00

  Google reported that they received the first request for geo-fence data in 2016. By 2020, they had more than 11,000 requests.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  Google insisted that authorities obtain a warrant if they wanted the data and the company developed a multi-step process for investigators to follow. So it might be exactly what you said. It just became too much.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  At some point, according to Adam Scott Want, an official associate professor of criminal justice interviewed by NBC, the geo-fencing technique offers details similar to a cell tower ping. The difference is that Google's data, which users previously agreed to provide when they agreed to conditions of using the company's services, appeared more accurate. And that's that's very interesting.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Yes, it is.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  That information was stored on a massive database that was searchable and accessible to law enforcement. According to court records that described the warrant process, the process begins with an anonymized data and may end up with a suspect identification. In Egypt's case, a Van Buren Township detective obtained data from a geo-fence warrant in 2020, but the agency discounted it because it came from a phone that didn't belong to a person of interest.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  So that kind of debunks our theory.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  Right? Because they did have the technology.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  They did.

• 28:08Speaker 00

  They were able to to get it. They just didn't put any stock into it because it didn't fit the people they were looking at.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:16Speaker 00

  And that's the, that's the exact problem with tunnel vision, right? You'd have to call that tunnel vision because instead of letting the evidence lead you to a conclusion, you're trying to find evidence to fit the people you think did it.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Right. You can't think that way.

• 28:33Speaker 00

  No, that's, that's the wrong way to do it. According to Detective James Plummer, they had it and they just never looked into it because they were so focused on the wrong person.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like you said, tunnel vision.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  Because geofence warrants require considerable manpower and analysis, they're often reserved for serious crimes. And obviously this is a very serious crime. For example, detectives investigating the Idaho college murders relied on a similar technique.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. As we talked about when we did that case, I don't know, month, two months ago.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's been a while ago.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 00

  Civil liberties advocates described geofence warrants as dangerous and unconstitutional, unfairly casting everyone within the geofence as potential criminals. And I could see that. I could understand how, you know, a lot of people would say, you know, this is an invasion of privacy.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  I didn't do anything wrong, but because I was in the area of the, the geofence, my name is now coming up as, as part of a murder investigation.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Cast this net, pulled me in and I don't like it.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  And my legal ego side of me says, I don't like it either.

• 29:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I wouldn't myself. Chris Marlowe, senior policy counsel with the ACLU, added that this umbrella of criminal suspicion is especially dangerous if the potential suspect is a person of color. In 2024, a Google spokesperson said the company has tried to protect user privacy while supporting the work of law enforcement. They said, we examine each demand for legal validity consistent with developing case law, and we routinely push back against over broad and otherwise inappropriate demands for user data, including objecting to some demands entirely.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  And, you know, to me, these things are very interesting. You know, technology becomes available and often it's used in a certain way that really works. But then the issue of privacy gets brought up and a lot of times it changes. You know, you think about like the genetic genealogy stuff. You know, there for a while, law enforcement was pulling stuff off all kinds of sites.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Oh, they were, yeah.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, you know, people brought up the fact that, hey, I didn't put my stuff on ancestry for you to look through for potential crime. So some changes had to be made. And I think it's the same type of deal here. In California and Virginia, where geofence data was used to make an arrest in two cases, an appeals court and a federal judge found that the technique violated the Fourth Amendment. And we mentioned it, right? In December of 2023, Google announced an overhaul to its location history policy that will move user data from the sensor vault, which is kind of their internal company database, to the user's phone.

• 31:48Speaker 00

  So under the new rules, if a user wants to save their location history to the cloud, we'll automatically encrypt your backed up data so no one can read it, including Google.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's protected.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. This ended Google's ability to respond to requests for location history data.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  I'm just thinking the amount of resources they would have to have at a company to respond to things like that. You'd have to have a staff of a few attorneys, you know?

• 32:18Speaker 00

  Oh, and, you know, obviously a lot of people just to... Do the searching and all that. But I, I think, you know, it was that plus coupled with the, I'm sure users crying foul, right about invasion of privacy. You've got a few legal opinions that are kind of saying the same thing. I can kind of understand why they went that way. In addition to geo fencing data, authorities also relied on forensic evidence in this case. Back in 2017, authorities pulled three genetic profiles from the Christmas lights used to

• 32:57Speaker 00

  bind Egypt's hands. One profile belonged to Egypt, but the other two came from unknown sources. The samples weren't strong enough to create a complete DNA profile to run through the CODIS database in 2017, but by 2020, there had been advances.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, as we know.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  That allowed the development of a, a more complete profile. And you know, you think two, three years, that's not that long. It goes by pretty quickly. Two or three years in the world of DNA advancements? Oh my gosh, that's like, uh, you know, what, what did they, I think maybe they still say it, but computers get more powerful. They like double every so many years.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  They've said that for, ever since computers came out. And I think it's, it's pretty true. I think something similar happens with, with DNA. It's like every year, there are advancements that allow them to do more than they could before with DNA.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's, and you think about, okay, so what does that mean? Where are we going to be at five years from now?

• 34:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  10 years from now. Wow.

• 34:10Speaker 00

  It'd be like Minority Report. There's going to be that, one of those red balls that comes out that

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  Tells you a murder is about to happen. I don't know if we'll ever get to that point, but.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  Now, one of the samples matched Tim Moore, an Ohio man with a criminal record who knew Shandon Groom. More cellphone data showed that on the night of the murder, he and groom stopped at the home of Shane Evans, Moore's half-brother. On November 5th, 2020, the Michigan State Police announced two arrests, but they didn't identify the suspects at the time. Tim Moore was identified as the first suspect later that month after his arraignment. The second suspect, Shane Evans, was identified after his arraignment on December 18th. And then on December 31st, Shandon Groom was identified as the third suspect.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  I mean, the family has to be really happy.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, happy that they're close to getting justice, right? For, for Egypt. Groom was charged with first degree murder, felony murder, first degree home invasion, and three counts of felony firearm. Timothy Moore was charged with first degree murder, felony murder, first degree home invasion, possessing a firearm as a felon, and four counts of using a firearm in the commission of a felony. Shane Evans was also charged with felony murder and first degree home invasion. So I thought it was interesting that, you know, Shandon Groom

• 35:47Speaker 00

  kind of seemed to be the first person that police locked in on with the geo-fencing information, but he was actually the, the third person arrested. There were two people identified before he was. And then a fourth person was arrested. That individual was later fatally shot in Toledo, Ohio. They were never identified by the media in connection with Egypt's murder.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  You know, you think about these three guys that they probably thought, man, we're good. We're not going to be caught.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, because it's years later.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now all of a sudden, knock, knock on your door.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  And I always think about that, right? When you've committed a heinous murder, what?

• 36:38Speaker 00

  What's it like? Are you always looking over your shoulder? Do you have that feeling that it's just a matter of time?

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  Or does every knock on the door kinda spook ya and think where you think, well, this could be the police? I don't know, maybe for some people, other people just don't think about it.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Cause they didn't think about the murder in the first place, probably. Investigators learned that Shane Evans lived down the street from Egypt and worked for the company that cut her lawn. He'd been cutting the grass outside the duplex the day before the murder. Evans was hanging out with Moore and Groom in June 2017. When they decided they wanted to steal marijuana from Egypt's neighbor. Evans knew that the residents who lived on that side of the duplex had a business growing medical marijuana. And that they were headed out of town for a music festival. Before she was killed, Egypt was concerned about the clientele that the business attracted. And she was planning on moving.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  Evans confessed that he agreed to drive down the street and point to the duplex. So that Moore and Groom, who were following him in their truck, could rob the home while the neighbors were away. But Evans said he didn't want to participate in the crime. He said in his interview, I put my hand out the window and I pointed. That's the right house, the right house, and I kept going. He also claimed he explained which door they needed to enter. Investigators determined that Moore and Groom mistakenly went to the left side of the duplex. Where Egypt lived, not the right side. They found Egypt walk, watching a movie. They tied her up and shot her.

• 38:21Speaker 00

  They could have left her alive and gone through with the robbery. But according to Dateline, Moore was on parole for a crime in which a female witness identified him. He didn't want to leave another witness behind.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  So he killed her.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  And we've heard that.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  About killers. You know, they start killing after, let's say they had a, a history of sexual assault or robbery or whatever it was. And they were identified by somebody. And they later came out and said that the reason they started killing is because they didn't want to take that chance.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:59Speaker 00

  Of being identified again. Moore later texted Evans, wrong door. Evans didn't remember replying and claimed he found out about Egypt's death when he saw the news. He told the police, Moore was like, do you want to know what happened? And I said, no, I don't ever want to know what happened. In March 2021, a judge bound the three defendants over for trial. Prosecutors presented cell phone and GPS records that placed all three men at the crime scene. They also stole Egypt's cell phone, which pinged to the same locations as their phones before they threw it away.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  It's not the smartest individual.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  No, we're not talking about criminal masterminds. Now, they were criminals, but they weren't all that smart about it. According to court testimony, Egypt was friends with the person who lived on the other side and would often leave the interior door open so they could go back and forth. Her neighbor kept marijuana in his home, was a licensed caregiver and had talked about this on local programs. His home had been burglarized prior to the murder and marijuana had been stolen.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  So not uncommon.

• 40:13Speaker 00

  No, and I guess if you're going to go on a local show and advertise the fact that you grow marijuana in your home, you might be setting yourself up

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  for a burglary or even worse. In the past, Egypt and her neighbor had attended a musical festival each June. The neighbor went to the festival in June 2017, but Egypt chose not to go because of her new job. The prosecution also noted that Tim Moore's DNA was found at the crime scene. Now, his defense attorney argued that there was insufficient evidence and police failed to thoroughly investigate. She noted that Moore was in a car crash 10 days prior to the incident, which made him incapable of committing the crime within the four to five minute window offered by investigators.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  I mean, that's. What their theory is.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, again, is that proven medically or is that just something the defense is trying to throw out there? Defense attorney Christina Joseph said, as quoted by Ann Arbor News, "The prosecution is saying a person with broken ribs who had a neck brace from a very serious accident 10 days before was able to remove Christmas lights from a curtain rod, figure out where to go in the home, tie an individual up, find a cushion, shoot the person, and get out of the home in four to five minutes. The timeline is too tight."

• 41:50Speaker 01

  I don't know if I agree with that.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think you can make the argument. You know, four to five minutes is not a lot of time.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  No, but it could be enough time to do all that.

• 42:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know that it couldn't be done. I would say it's tight, though. Prosecutor Victoria Shackelford countered the argument that a crime like this can't happen in four to five minutes. It's too brief of a time. I'm certain Egypt Covington would have disagreed with that.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 00

  I'm certain those four to five minutes of her life felt like an eternity. And I think it's a good comeback, right, by the prosecution. On April 7, 2023, Shane Evans pleaded guilty to second degree murder. As part of his plea, he agreed to testify against groom and more at their upcoming trial.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  And you talk about it all the time, right? Who's the first person who's gonna make a deal? That person is usually going to come out smelling like a roach.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 42:51Speaker 00

  They're gonna get the most favorable treatment. Now, they're gonna be required to testify against another person or other people, however many people are involved in the crime, but they're gonna get a better deal.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the loyalty during something like this doesn't pan out, you know?

• 43:08Speaker 00

  No.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  This is not back in the early days of the mafia where no one ever spoke, you know, it's.

• 43:15Speaker 00

  I think for these people, a lot of times it's how do I cover my own ass?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  And if that means I gotta rat other people out, that's what I gotta do because I'm not spending the rest of my life in jail.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  I don't blame them at all. Now, I do blame them for what they did for the crime. I don't, I don't blame them for cutting a deal because that's in their best interest. It's also in the best interest, though, of the prosecution because now you have this testimony against the other two. It's just gonna make your case that much more solid.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  And you have to think that prosecution's probably talking to each and every one of them. And who, you know, whoever says, I'll do it, you know, wins. I mean, you, you really have to react pretty quickly. If you're gonna sit back on something like that, you're probably gonna lose out.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I, I think though, that Evans was the best person to go after.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  Because he really pointed, he didn't go in.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:25Speaker 00

  And so, yeah, he, he's not gonna get off scot-free. What he did is punishable and he should be punished. But the other two people, they, you know, played a much more egregious role in the murder.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  So they're, they're gonna wanna go after them, you know, as much as they can. So they're gonna cut Evans a, a better deal, no doubt about it. On May 4th, 2023, Shane Evans received a 15 to 25 year prison sentence. Although Shane said he didn't wanna participate in the crime, Egypt's father Chuck Covington said at sentencing per Fox 2 Detroit, he struck the match, which led to the fire that extinguished her.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  That's a perfect way to say that.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  It is. You know, there, there is something to be said about pulling the trigger or striking the fatal blow. Being in the apartment, tying up, being a part of all that. But there's also something to be said for the person who is kind of the instigator.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  Or the, I don't know if he was the mastermind, but I think he was, at the very least, the instigator.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  I mean, it's kind of like when someone hires a hitman, right? I mean, you didn't actually perform the murder, but you initiated it.

• 45:53Speaker 00

  Well, I think you can make the argument that maybe it doesn't happen.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  If not for you.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  I think that's a perfect statement there.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  Chuck also pointed out that Evans didn't come forward on his own. He said, year after year, he did nothing. He's shown that he cannot and should not be a part of society.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  That's a good point. He knew what happened, but chose not to ever say anything.

• 46:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, you know, yeah, he's, I don't even know if you call it doing the right thing now. He's, he's doing something that's in his best interest.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  That's why he's doing it.

• 46:31Speaker 00

  That's why he's doing it. It's the only reason that he's testifying against him. I think Chuck's absolutely right. The guy didn't come forward and just say, hey, I know what happened. I'm going to tell you, he was caught.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  And then he, you know, he copped the deal, plain and simple. Evans briefly addressed the court, saying, I'm truly sorry from the deepest part of my heart. And again, I don't know if that means a hill of beans to the family. I really don't.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  This point in the process, I don't think it would.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  I don't think it does because first of all, you probably don't believe them.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  No.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  And then secondly, you're just like, I don't care. I mean, what, your words aren't doing anything for me. It's not bringing Egypt back. It's, it's not. It's just what it is, I guess. On July 14th, 2023, Shandon Groom and Timothy Moore pleaded guilty to second degree murder, days before their trial was set to begin. Egypt's family said avoiding the trial was a relief. I think for a lot of families, it is. You don't want to have to hear all of the details that the prosecution is going to lay. They have to lay it all out and they have to lay it out in detail. And if you're in that courtroom, you got to hear it all.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  You don't want to hear how your daughter suffered again and again and again.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  And see the pictures and whatever else that they're going to have to show to the jury.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  Her brother Dwayne told Fox 2 Detroit, we already saw them face to face. So that check mark's done. We don't need to sit and look through all the photos and all the evidence, things like that. On October 4th, 2023, Groom was sentenced to 17 to 26 years. Moore received 20 to 55 years. And I'll be honest with you. I think those two are a little light.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  That's what I was thinking, you know, seems like, uh, groom didn't really get that bad of a sentence compared to Evans.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. Now, if Moore did the entire 55 years, okay. But if he gets out in 20, I could see where the family would have a real issue with that.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not, I'm not happy at all with those two.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Now, the sentencing was briefly interrupted when Moore said he felt forced into pleading when he shouldn't have. After a short recess, Moore and his attorney said his concerns were with alleged untrue statements his co-defendants made about the crime. The judge told him he could withdraw his plea and go to trial, but he declined. And, you know, to be honest, we, we think those are light, but those are plea deals.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  You know, you are getting a secure conviction.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:26Speaker 00

  There, there's not going to be any chance for appeals, which is, is a big deal.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 49:32Speaker 00

  But it also means you're probably not going to get the same length of sentence that you would have if they were found guilty at trial.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  And clearly the family was okay with it.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  You know.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  I, I imagine normally in those situations, the prosecutor does reach out to the family. Not always. We've heard where they didn't.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Oh, that's true.

• 49:50Speaker 00

  And the family was upset about it, but I would say more times than not, they're in communication with the family.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:56Speaker 00

  And we already heard that the family was glad to not have to go through, uh, or sit through the whole trial anyway. So as, as we wrap this one up, you know, Egypt Covington, we talked about her in such glowing terms.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  I mean, everybody had nothing but just unbelievable, wonderful things to say about her. She was looking forward to moving in with her boyfriend, starting a new job. She still had those dreams of becoming a singer. Her life was cut short far too soon by these three men. Shane Evans, Timothy Moore and Shannon Groom. And I, and go back to Evans, right? He is the one that kind of set the whole burglary thing into motion. Now, Moore and, and groom kind of

• 50:56Speaker 00

  made the fatal mistake when they entered the, the wrong apartment and shot and killed a, a very innocent woman. And she was a truly innocent victim who thought that, you know, she was safe in her home. That's something that I think about a lot. You know, people killed inside their home. You know, we all kind of think that home is like safety.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  It's your safe haven.

• 51:22Speaker 00

  It is. It's the place where you should be the safest. Unfortunately, a lot of the stories that we do kind of prove that that's not always the case.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  And, and all this for marijuana. I mean, it's like, how much marijuana could he have had there? That they might've got their hands on. Is there any amount that would justify killing somebody over? No.

• 51:47Speaker 00

  Well, then I think the prosecutor said it correctly as well. They could have just left.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Well, wrong place. Don't have it. Bye.

• 51:57Speaker 00

  But I think, you know, Moore felt that he would rather kill this woman.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:05Speaker 00

  Then risk the chance that she could possibly identify him. And that's just, man, I don't get it. I don't understand it.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's unfortunate. You know, obviously, you know, Egypt was an amazing woman and had a, I mean, the future was, could have been anything.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was bright for her. And, and you know, you think about all the people that she touched while she was alive. Think about all the people that didn't get to experience that because she died.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  You know, extrapolate that out over the next 60, 70 years, however long she lived. She would have touched the lives of a lot more people. And that's a really sad aspect of it as well.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  All because some guys wanted some pot, man.

• 52:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that's it for our episode on Egypt Covington and another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  And Gabby.

• 53:02Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.