Brad McGarry

In May 2017, 43-year-old Brad McGarry was found shot to death in the basement of his Bellaire, Ohio, home. A well-liked coal miner with a larger-than-life personality, Brad had a wide circle of friends and seemingly no enemies. Investigators initially considered whether his murder was a hate crime or a robbery gone wrong. But as detectives dug deeper into Brad's personal life, they uncovered a secret relationship, hidden betrayals, and a shocking motive for murder. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murder of Brad McGarry. What initially appeared to be a random act of violence quickly became a far more personal investigation. And the truth about what happened to Brad would devastate those closest to him. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 1:43Speaker 00

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 547 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Good, man. Good. How about you? Can you believe we're in November already?

• 1:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're not, as we sit here taping this.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Well, we will be.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  It's actually coming up on Halloween, but we tape these early.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  And, but I actually said that to my wife today.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  It's hard to believe that we're going into November.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  I know it.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  I feel like this year is just boom.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. When you flown by. When do you need my Christmas list again?

• 2:21Speaker 00

  Uh, I like to have at least a good full 30 days.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:26Speaker 00

  Because you, your list is so long. You're like a six-year-old child.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  I write everything down, you know, no matter how much it costs, you know?

• 2:34Speaker 00

  And I'm not even sure they still make Lincoln Logs. So I don't know why you keep putting that on there. They probably do. I don't know. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?

• 2:46Speaker 02

  I'm ready.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  We're talking about Brad McGarry. Brad McGarry was a coal miner from the small village of Bel Air, Ohio. When Brad was shot to death in his basement, investigators uncovered a surprising killer and motive. Okay, so another episode in our home state of Ohio. Now, Bel Air is on the eastern side of the state, pretty far away from us. It's actually, I think, on the border of Ohio and West Virginia.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  It's probably a good, I don't know, we think, three and a half hour drive.

• 3:18Speaker 00

  It's, it's three hours at least.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  I would think. Cause I don't think it's that much further to Pittsburgh. We used to make that drive to Pittsburgh.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  And I'm pretty sure I used to go through Bel Air for some reason.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Brad Dennis McGarry was born on October 24th, 1973 in Cambridge, Ohio. Brad grew up as an openly gay man in the small village of Louisville, Ohio. Because of this, he had a difficult adolescence. According to his friend, Dan Ignatius, Brad was called slurbs by his peers, and it was something that he just dealt with. People just didn't understand. He walked around and he made it apparent that he was gay. He didn't hide it. He wasn't going to live a life.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, but back in that timeframe, it would have been really tough to be openly gay.

• 4:14Speaker 00

  Well, coupled the 1970s.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  And, and kind of the, the times, right? And, and how people thought back then.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  Also, you're talking about small-town Ohio.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  And normally, the smaller the town, the tougher I think it would have been.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  I agree with you. It had to be tough.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  To come out as openly gay. I'm not saying specifically Ohio. It's more just small-town America. I think back then, it's definitely nothing like it is today.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Oh, no. No, it's a big, big time difference.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. Whatever this is, that's exactly what it is.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  And I'm not saying gay people today don't have their problems, but in the 1970s and 80s, it was tough.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Of course. That's why so many people stayed in the closet.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, they, they didn't want to come out as openly gay because life was a lot harder for them if, if they did. But this is interesting, right? Because Brad's friend is saying, he did it. You know, he came out, he told everybody he lived as a openly gay man. He wasn't going to live a life.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Good for him, right?

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Despite the challenges he faced, Brad was able to find a close group of friends who accepted him for who he was. Brad previously worked as a hairdresser, but he wanted to earn more money, so he made a drastic career change and began working as a coal miner.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  That's a tough job.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Well, you talk about drastic career change. I can't think of too many things that would be at opposite ends of the spectrum.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  Really, they really are, you know, if you think about it.

• 6:07Speaker 00

  From hairdresser to coal miner. I mean, that would be like the office job that like you and I had to working on one of those under deep sea drilling wells in the middle of the ocean.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  You know, you're talking about night and day, or just working on an oil well, you know, out in Texas or Oklahoma or something like that. According to Dan Ignatius, it's a different culture from hairdresser to coal miner, and it's a rough job. I was like, you know, be careful. But he showed that you can be an openly gay man and still be able to do physical labor like straight guys. And that's kind of what he was wanting to do, is change the stereotype.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. But, you know, his friend's right. Like I mentioned before, it's a tough job. My, both my granddad and my great-granddad are coal miners, so.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Not easy.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Not easy.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Not easy work.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:08Speaker 00

  Brad maintained a large circle of friends as an adult. His friend, Mary Kay Milliken, told Dateline, he's larger than life. He absolutely had the best personality and he was friendly. Brad was described as a happy, joyful person. One friend told W T O V nine, he would give you the shirt off his back. He loved life. He would stand in a grocery store and dance if he heard something happy on the radio. Brad was probably the most kind-hearted, happiest man ever.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  So it sounds like he was a good guy.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  Well, it's a great way to live life.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  You know, he was facing some obstacles. Couldn't have been easy for him, but, you know, he was very open about who he was, and he liked who he was.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  And he was happy. And what's better than that?

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Well, you know, you've seen stories, or I've seen stories out there where, you know, these guys were in the closet and wanted to come out but didn't come out. And because of that, they, they were depressed, right? They didn't feel joy because they couldn't be who they felt they needed to be.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  Well, it's, it would be very hard to be happy if you can't be who you really are.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Right? If you can't, um, express yourself in the ways that you really want to.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so in this case, you know, he was able to do that. So.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  And also, if you have to live a lie, right? How are you going to be happy if you have to live a life?

• 8:44Speaker 02

  It's tough. It's tough.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  It would be.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Cause it leads to other lies.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  It does. In 2011, Brad met 20-year-old David Kenny during a training class. David was a rookie to the industry. He was newly married and a stepfather to three children. Brad and David soon became close friends, and David introduced Brad to his wife and kids. David and Brad did everything together. They enjoyed telling jokes and playing pranks on each other. David's wife, Sherry, told Dateline, we just took him in as family. You know, we celebrate holidays. We have a vacation in August. We're supposed to go on together with him. My kids call him uncle.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  That sounds like they were all pretty close.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, obviously Brad and David were very close, but I think, you know, Brad became close with the whole Kenny family.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 00

  You know, she said that we essentially took him in.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Almost like a brother to, to them. And like, like she said, an uncle to the kid.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what it seemed like. On May 7, 2017, Brad was found dead in his basement by David, David's wife, Sherry, and her 13-year-old daughter. So pretty rough.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  Right? This is someone that they cared about a lot, and they found him dead. That evening, they stopped by Brad's house to bring him a weed whacker. They noticed the back door slightly ajar. The family entered the house. They saw drawers and cupboards open in the kitchen. They called out to Brad and even called his phone, but received no response. Sherry told David to get his gun, which was in their car. Upon retrieving his handgun, David explored the main floor and went into the basement. He yelled for Sherry to call 911. Sherry came downstairs, followed by her daughter.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  Brad was face down in the basement with a bullet wound in the back of his head.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Again, I think that's, you know, rough for everybody to see, but especially for the 13

• 10:54Speaker 00

  That's what I was thinking, right? A 13 year old. And you know, you would love to say, no, don't come down here, but I don't think they knew exactly what was going on.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Obviously, if the mom, Sherry would have known that he was dead and had been shot in the head, she would have made her daughter stay behind, I'm sure. Sherry called 911 at 6:15 PM. Investigators determined that Brad was shot twice in the back of the head. The murder weapon was a 22 caliber gun, which was never found.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  I mean, for me, immediately I think of like execution style.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, two shots to the back of the head.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  Is almost always brings up kind of the image of an execution. And people say, well, you know, a 22 caliber gun, it's a small caliber and it is.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  But it's deadly.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  It's very effective.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  Especially at a close range like that. More people are killed by 22 caliber guns than any other caliber. I think that's still the case. It has been for a long time. Now, a lot of that is just, you know, accidental and, and things like that, but.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  But also think, can't that 22 caliber kind of ricochet within side this call?

• 12:17Speaker 00

  It does.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 00

  It does. When you get a large caliber, it can exit.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  The 22 loses so much steam. And it's kind of macabre to think about it in these terms. But I think most of the time it doesn't exit. So it just bounces around and it causes all kinds of damage.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, just send their shredding.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. Both David and Sherry were distraught and shaken up as they tried to give statements to officers. A police officer's body cam captured David saying, I'm trying not to freak out. I'm sorry, I can't not stop seeing that. I'm not supposed to see that, man.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  And if that's a close friend, that is tough. A family member or close friend. I mean, heck, if you didn't even know a person and you found someone like that, you would be shaken up.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it could scar you.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  But obviously, the closer of a connection you have with them, the worse it's gonna be.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. And this is almost like a brother to him.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. David provided a written statement at the scene and was asked to come in for a follow-up interview in the next few days. Detective Ryan Alar told David to go home and rest and he'd be in touch. David shook the detective's hand and said, Brad was my best friend in the whole world. Please find out who did this to him. One early theory investigators had to look into was whether Brad's murder was a hate crime.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Well, potentially could be.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, we talked about it, right? He was openly gay. Now, it's not the 1970s or 80s by this time, but in a small town, could somebody still have certain types of feelings?

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Against gay individuals? And I think the answer is yes. And could they possibly want to hurt him for simply being gay? So I think investigators have to entertain that thought. Brad's friend Wendy Newbauer told police Brad was having trouble at work after moving to a new coal mining plant. His coworkers were reportedly not kind to him. However, investigators talked to a former detective who became a coal miner at that plant and learned that Brad was actually well liked and no one had any problems with him.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  So some mixed communication.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. But you know, let's, let's go back and talk about this idea of being openly gay. Small town. Now add in the fact that you're a coal miner.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Would that maybe possibly make it even tougher? And I would think it would have to.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, when you think of coal miners generally, you're thinking, you know, these rugged guys down there, you know, pounding away at the coal mine, you know, the ceiling of dropping that coal down, scooping it up and just, you know, chiseling away at the walls and the ceiling and, and.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  Do they usually hit the ceiling?

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're chiseled the ceiling down too. Yeah. Sometimes they use a machine that does that and drops it and you shovel it all out.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  It seems like it'd be just raining coal down on you. I don't know. I've never been a coal miner. I don't think you have either, but you did say you had some coal miners in your family, but you also say a lot of things that make it seem as though you have experience with, when I know for a fact you don't.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Give me a bucket and hammer and a chisel and I'll show you.

• 16:06Speaker 00

  And you'll, you'll do the, the whole mine by yourself.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  I'll take a canary down with me too, to make sure it's safe.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  So authorities also considered the possibility of a robbery gone wrong because Brad's drawers were open and things were tossed around throughout the home. Brad was also known to collect antiques. There were obvious valuables in the home that were not taken, leading to the conclusion that the killer attempted to stage a robbery. And that's a big determination, right? That investigators always have to make, is this a real robbery? Has it been staged to look like a robbery? Now, for me, I know nothing about antiques. So if they're talking about valuable antiques, I wouldn't know what to take if I was a burglar.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  But I'm assuming they're, they're talking about other valuables that were probably pretty obvious as well.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  You might be able to identify an antique watch because you are.

• 17:04Speaker 00

  Yes, I do know a lot about watches, but.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Watch guy.

• 17:08Speaker 00

  Other stuff like dishes and glassware and things like that.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  Even furniture. I don't know much about.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Probably thrown away stuff that was worth money.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  I'm sure, I'm sure I have.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

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• 19:05Speaker 00

  Detectives then started focusing in on those closest to Brad. They found his recent love interest, a man named Scotty. David and Sherry also said Brad had recently ended an unhealthy relationship with a man named Scotty. Brad's friend Wendy Newbauer agreed that Brad had gotten too wrapped up into that boy and started getting really weird. So maybe a troubled relationship.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  Here with this guy named Scotty. Scotty was identified as 22-year-old Scott Butler. His father was a friend of Brad's from the coal mines and Brad met Scotty at a Butler family party. Their relationship was described as on again, off again, and casual, according to friends.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  And a lot of people have those types of relationships.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  You know, it could just be periodic casual sex for some individuals. It could be that they like each other, but then they fight, they break up, they get back together, right? On and off again can mean a bunch of different things.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  I mean, you're, you're describing a lot of different relationships out there.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, that many people.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:22Speaker 00

  Had at one point in time. Scotty confirmed this and was devastated when he learned Brad was dead. And Scotty had an airtight alibi. At the time of the murder, he was in county jail in West Virginia on a probation violation.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Like we mentioned in the previous podcast that we just recorded, it's a pretty good alibi.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was actually in our Patreon episode last Saturday. I tend to think being incarcerated is a pretty airtight alibi.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Kind of hard to argue about that one.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  Unless you somehow got a day pass or you've pulled a law-abiding citizen where you tunneled out and you've got this whole elaborate network.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  Then, yeah, you probably couldn't have done it. Detectives were at an impasse until Brad's cousin Skylar Strosser provided a critical tip. The night before Brad was killed, he attended a family wedding and spent the night at his mom's house. The next morning, he told his cousins at a family brunch that he planned to meet a man named DJ later that afternoon for a nap. Now, when he said this, he did it with a wing insinuating sex.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've all done that before, right? I'm gonna go home and take a nap.

• 21:49Speaker 00

  First of all, I have never done this. So exaggerated that it looks

• 21:57Speaker 00

  wild. But yeah, we've also, we've all insinuated sex.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  Right? Yada, yada. You know, I, I mentioned the chowder.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  With another or by yourself. I know, I understand.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:13Speaker 00

  However, it plays out. But it was said that Brad was in a rush to leave and he seemed giddy and excited. Skylar said the relationship between Brad and DJ had been going on for years. Brad's friend Melanie had also heard a lot about this DJ. She knew Brad was in love with him. Brad would drop everything to be there for DJ. From what Brad shared, he believed DJ loved him back. However, there was a major obstacle in their relationship. DJ was married and was living a double life.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  That typically will put a damper on some things.

• 22:52Speaker 00

  Well, it's a heck of an obstacle.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  Right? You know, if you're in love with somebody and they're, they're married, whether it's, you know, a gay relationship or a straight relationship, doesn't matter.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  Being married and having a relationship on the side. That is an obstacle for all concerned, you know, really, if you think about it.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Problematic.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  But also, does it maybe put DJ in the crosshairs a little bit? Because Brad ends up dead. You're having an affair with him, but yet you're married. So therefore you potentially have motive.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a problem for this DJ guy, right? Because you're married and then if you're married to, in a straight relationship, it adds another layer.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, there, there's all kinds of different possibilities. But the motive could be a couple of different things, right? Maybe somebody is threatening to tell.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  On you, tell your significant other, your spouse. We just don't know. When Skylar did some research on social media, she identified DJ as Dave Kenny. David was known to friends and family as DJ, which stood for David Jr. Brad and David had been having a secret affair for years, but sources didn't specify exactly when it started. In late 2016, David's wife voiced suspicions about the affair. According to State versus Kenny, around this time, Brad was upset that David wouldn't leave his wife to be with him.

• 24:42Speaker 00

  During interviews with others, it was reported that Brad threatened to tell Sherry about the relationship.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. That is going to cause a lot of ripples in the water.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that provides the motive, right? Like I, like I said earlier, if you're married and you're having an affair and that person you're having an affair with threatens to tell your husband or what, that is a motive.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 25:10Speaker 00

  People don't want to have their entire life turned upside down. Maybe they don't want to lose their family or what they built. And can some people be willing to kill to keep that from happening? Yeah, we know it because we've covered a bunch of those types of cases.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there's two people willing to kill in that scenario, right? I think you got David. And then I think you say, you know, Sherry as well, right? She doesn't want to lose her man.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, possibly. Or she's just upset.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Or she's just upset.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  Maybe she's just mad at Brad.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  For trying to steal.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  David away from her or whatever. Detectives looked through Brad's phone and found messages between the two men that confirmed the affair. Investigators soon found additional incriminating evidence against David. Brad arrived home around 2:55 PM on May 7th. A local police chief lived on Brad's street and had, had a surveillance system that captured David Kenny's vehicle driving towards Brad's house at 1:59 PM and away from his house at 3:11 PM. Okay. Not looking good for David.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  No, it sounds like he was there for what, about an hour, 10 minutes or so?

• 26:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, give or take. David went to the police station for his follow-up interview on May 9th, 2017. He provided his DNA and gave investigators consent to search his phone. So, I mean, obviously Gibbs, law enforcement, they have to be really looking at this guy.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  As a prime suspect, because we can't forget David was the one to find Brad.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 27:05Speaker 00

  In the basement, right? And then he called his wife Sherry down.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  And then the 13 year old.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  The 13 year old came down as well. But now we find out that, okay, not only were they best friends, but they were having an affair.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were, they were more than just friends.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  And Sherry found out about it.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 00

  And she wasn't happy.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  While David was talking to Detective Ryan Alar, another investigator took the phone to a forensics lab for processing. This provided further proof of the affair. David was emotional and appeared to be grieving his friend. Detective Alar confronted David with the questionable evidence found on his phone. David admitted to the affair, but claimed that it had been weeks, maybe months, since they were last together. But this contradicted what Brad's cousin reported to authorities. David was asked about his movements on May 6th and 7th. He said he and his stepson went to visit Brad the day before the shooting.

• 28:08Speaker 00

  Brad called him that night, both during and after the wedding, and they spoke both times. On the afternoon of the murder, he went out to lunch with his wife. He then went window shopping alone in search of a new trailer for his truck. He claimed he got home around 3:00 PM. Okay, that's a good story, but the surveillance video seems to contradict it.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:33Speaker 00

  David's phone GPS also contradicted his story. His phone data indicated that he was at Brad's house at the time of the murder. And I, I still, Gibbs, I never understand it, right? It's, it's one thing to maybe not think about somebody having a surveillance video or getting caught on surveillance video in a neighborhood. But who, you know, in the modern age, doesn't realize that your phone is tracking you all the time?

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Exactly. I mean, you have a smartphone, you're being tracked.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  Well, even if you got a flip phone.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Well, that's true.

• 29:15Speaker 00

  There's some tracking.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Tracking in that as well.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  Not, not the same as the smartphones, but.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  And then you gotta think, you know, your vehicle, most of the newer vehicles are also tracking what you're doing.

• 29:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, your watches, depending on what kind you have, the garments, the Apple watches, the Fitbits. I mean, there's just a lot of stuff that kind of track us or anything that works on GPS. And I just think some people don't think about.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  David admitted that he drove past Brad's house, but he wasn't there. He then said he waited out front for a while, but left before Brad got back from family brunch. So he's got to explain that video.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  He does.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  Surveillance video. And he says, well, yeah, I did drive by his house, but he wasn't there, so I didn't stop or anything. But the thing for me, Gibbs, is, you know, he has to say that, okay, Brad wasn't there, but he waited around for a while.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 00

  But he's got to try to explain the, the surveillance footage, right? Cause you mentioned it, it's about an hour and 10 minutes. So did he sit there waiting for an hour?

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Unlikely.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  Unlikely, but you know, he's confronted with evidence, so he has to. Try to figure it out. And then he changed the story again. He claimed that Brad did show up, but another man was with him. David didn't know who the man was. He and Brad went into the garage and he heard a gunshot. He fled because he was scared.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:56Speaker 00

  That's a pretty big change.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  That's a huge change.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  Right. If we're talking about changing up your story, then he said he witnessed the shooting, which prompted the shooter to threaten to tell his wife about the affair if he implicated him in the shooting.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  So you know, when you tell multiple stories again, and you change it and again, I mean, I'm sorry, it just screams guilty all over it.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  Absolutely. Right. Cause as we often talk about, there is one true story.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  There's one version of events that actually happened. When you get into telling two or three different versions, well, first of all, you lose all credibility.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  Investigators aren't going to believe you. And especially from my way of thinking, when each change in your story seems to line up or help combat the evidence that is put in front of you. Right. To me, that's a real telltale sign.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  That you're, you're lying. You're, you're trying to feed a story that matches up with what investigators already know.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  I feel like investigators, if they want it, they could feed you something different again, and watch you keep changing that story. Like you kind of mentioned.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I think they're pretty smart about it.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  Detective Alar told David that Brad's front seat was full of items from the wedding. So he wouldn't have had a passenger sitting there. So finally David admitted he shot Brad in yet another version.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  Of his story.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Maybe we hit the full truth this time.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  So apparently Brad had wanted David to leave his wife for a while. So David said, he arranged the meeting with Brad to end their affair, which Brad didn't take one. Brad told him, this has been going on for too long. You need to leave your wife. David told him he was done and they weren't, you know, going to do this anymore. David loved Brad, but also loved his wife and kids. He had no thoughts of leaving Sherry or his family and told Brad they had to end the affair. According to State versus Kenny, David said that Brad, quote, flipped out, smacked him with both hands and told him to leave his wife, yelled

• 33:24Speaker 00

  about how David fucked with his emotions for so long, and then started waving and pointing a Derringer at him.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  You know where the Derringer is?

• 33:35Speaker 02

  I do. Tiny little gun.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  It is usually pretty small, usually.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Two shotter?

• 33:40Speaker 00

  Two shots, two barrels, one on top of each other's.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:44Speaker 00

  I think the normal configuration, but a very small gun and normally a 22, right?

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:51Speaker 00

  Most Derringers, I think were 22s. So David said he grabbed the gun and pushed Brad back. Brad rushed at him. David felt threatened and shot him first in the top of the head, and then in the back of the head after he was down. And that's an interesting statement.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  It is.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Right. What is he, what is he doing? Right. He's changing it now to, yeah, I shot him, but here's why I did it. He came after me. Somehow he was able to grab the gun.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  Away from Brad. Brad rushes at him, shoots him in the top of the head, but then shoots him in the back of the head after he's already down. Why does he need to do that if he's already down?

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Right. Kind of the self-defense rationale goes out the window.

• 34:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, he's making a self-defense argument, but then he's, he's kind of hurting his own case, right? By saying, well, once he was down, then I shot him in the back of the head, but it has to line up with the evidence.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  It does. Now, I think if he would have told the story from day one, he still had, would have that problem about, you know, was it self-defense or not? But I think it probably wouldn't have went smoother for him.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  He'd had a better chance.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:16Speaker 00

  Right. Because this is what? The fourth or fifth version? So he's lost so much credibility.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  By this point that, that then they're not believing, you know, anything he says. According to lead detective Ryan Alar, from what we gleaned at this point is Brad felt like David was taking advantage of him. He wanted to be with David. He wanted David to leave his wife and be with him and be a real couple. And, you know, that's not the strangest thing in the world. People go through that all the time.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  Of course. Yeah.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  You know, when you're having an affair, one person is married, let's say the other person's not, maybe they're both married.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:57Speaker 00

  Okay. They might be in love with each other and they want to be together. A natural inclination is for one of those people to want the other person to leave their spouse. So.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  So that they can be.

• 36:09Speaker 00

  They can be together or else what are we doing?

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  Right. At a certain point.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  But I think, you know, there's, obviously there's, there's moments where that one person just can't leave for whatever reason, right? They, they like being with you, but they can't leave their current partner to be with you because they also like that situation.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  Right. You're saying can't. I'm going to say don't want to.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Don't want to. Yeah.

• 36:36Speaker 00

  Cause it's, cause to me, that's the like, they want their cake and they want to eat it too.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  That's true. Yeah. Yeah. It's not can. They choose not to.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  Yes. They don't want to, but they still want the best of all world.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  And obviously, I mean, it's kind of hard not to think that's the situation.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Here, or that's what it was. David was asked if he staged the scene to look like a robbery. He claimed that Brad was upset about missing money and was opening drawers while David insisted he did not take it. So again, it's like most people, right? Eventually they, they come up with an answer for everything. Now, it's not a good answer. A lot of times it doesn't make sense, but they're trying to, you know, answer the questions or combat the, the, the evidence at the scene.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, maybe David was really opening up all the drawers to see if there's any notes that he gave to Brad that Brad kept or any, anything that might've tied him to Brad in a relationship way.

• 37:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because we talked about it early on. It was painted as this friendship.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:51Speaker 00

  So you could be absolutely right. He might not have been looking for money. He might have been looking for anything that maybe the police would find later that would indicate the two were having a sexual relationship, which would kind of automate, automatically make him a, a person of interest.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  Although David claimed self-defense, he was arrested for murder. The cameras at the police station also captured the devastating moment when David told his wife Sherry about the affair before he was arrested. David insisted that Brad came at him with the gun because he wanted him to leave Sherry. Sherry told him through tears, I can't even look at you. She also confronted him about taking her and their daughter to the crime scene. David said, I know. I felt so bad. I didn't know what else to do. So.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Well, are you kidding me?

• 38:47Speaker 00

  He didn't know what else to do. Imagine being Sherry, right? Finding all of this out and then realizing that you and your 13 year old daughter were used as pawn.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  In this whole thing.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  And on top of that, you're used in this fake friendship, this family, you know, this is like, he's going to be like your uncle and all this, only because they were having an affair and it was way, it was a way for them to be together without throwing a bunch of flags up, you know, to Sherry and the kids.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Although she, she might've known about that part. We talked about it earlier. I think she did find out at some, at some point.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  David Kenny went to trial in early 2018. Prosecutors argued against his self-defense claim, pointing out that Brad was shot twice in the back of the head during the 16 minute encounter between the friends. According to the state, David killed Brad, who he claimed was his best friend to hide his double life. Chief Assistant Prosecutor Kevin Flanagan asked the jury, is quoted by WTOV9, "Let's assume that you believe everything that the defendant says. Now you've got to determine whether or not this was self-defense. And let's assume that you buy for one second that the first shot was self-defense. How,

• 40:15Speaker 00

  ladies and gentlemen, do you buy that the second shot was self-defense?"

• 40:20Speaker 02

  I mean, that's a good point and you brought it up already.

• 40:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is. The defendant told you that he was on his knees, head down. You don't get to come up behind the person and put a bullet in the back of their skull. It is very hard to explain when you're going down this self-defense route.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  First shot? Yeah. Now, if you could explain a second, third and fourth shot, if they were still coming at you.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  But when it's behind to the back of the head, that becomes a, a tough thing to do.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  It's a very hard sell.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  It really is. Defense attorney Chris Gagan countered, "What did you hear about a plan? Nothing in the phones, nothing in the texts, nothing in the emails, no diary, no witnesses, nobody saying, yeah, boy, David said if things don't change with Brad, he's going to have to take matters into his own hands. There's nothing like that. You have to believe that David, on that beautiful May Sunday afternoon, just decided and formulated a plan. You know, I'm going to kill Brad today." And the one thing that I will say about that is that a lot of times we do cover killers who, for whatever reason, seem to

• 41:39Speaker 00

  tell a multitude of people what they're going to do.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  But in this instance, you know, where David is having an affair with Brad and he has a, a wife and a family, that's probably a reason not to tell others about it, right? He's not going to want people to know about this.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  And so is he gonna write it in a diary? Is he gonna send texts to people about it? No, probably not.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  No.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  At trial, a detective testified that David's changing statements led him to believe he planned an ambush and lured Brad to his home with the promise of a sexual encounter, then staged the crime scene. Testimony also focused on the missing murder weapon. David claimed that Brad owned a Derringer and usually kept it on his hot tub. A friend testified that Brad was afraid of guns, but decided to buy one with David for self-defense. Around Thanksgiving 2016, another witness knew Brad owned one gun and kept it in his room. And not to say that somebody couldn't do it, but keeping a gun on your hot tub seems like a very strange

• 42:58Speaker 00

  place.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so, too. I mean.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  Now, maybe if you wanted to keep it there while you were in the hot tub.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 43:06Speaker 00

  Cause you're, you're, you feel a little more vulnerable.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Cause you're naked?

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe. But to keep it there all the time, that doesn't make any sense. A police officer who knew Brad testified that he recently asked for advice on obtaining a concealed carry permit and buying his first gun. He bought a High Point nine millimeter, which he fired at a range. This gun was found in Brad's nightstand. And there might be some people who own a High Point. It's one of the cheaper guns you can buy.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like entry level, right?

• 43:38Speaker 00

  It's a very entry level gun. Police didn't find a holster for a Derringer, but they did find a box of 22 caliber long rifle ammo in David's truck. And we mentioned it, right? Brad was killed by a 22 caliber gun.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, not a nine millimeter gun that Brad had.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, you know, could David have, you know, owned this Derringer? Possibly, but is it strange that he has no ammo for it, but David does?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's somewhat strange.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  A detective testified about the communications between the men. Brad accused David of lying. In 2016, they exchanged intimate photographs and Brad seemed upset that David didn't spend more time with him. However, there were no angry or threatening texts. And what do you make of that? I mean, for me, it's, um, okay. If Brad is threatening David with telling Sherry, you would think maybe there'd be a text or two about it.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  I think so. Right? Like, you know, him sending that threat and then David come back saying, you can't do that, man.

• 44:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  You're gonna ruin my life. Are you kidding me?

• 44:52Speaker 00

  No, it's not to say that those conversations couldn't have happened in person.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:57Speaker 00

  But.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  Probably did.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  A lot of times those will be texted as well. David called Brad three times on May 7. At 1:45 PM, Brad texted, "Don't forget my surprise lol." So now we're really honing in, you know, getting into this timeframe.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  So if there's a surprise, to me, that indicates that they've got plans to meet up.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Right. Sounds like there's some flirt, flirtation going on there.

• 45:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, but also, you know, that they're going to be meeting during this timeframe where Brad is known to be killed. After leaving Brad's house, David texted Brad at 3:13 PM, "We will be bringing it up." He texted him again at 3:26, "Stopped by. You weren't home yet. Call me when you get there and we'll come out."

• 45:52Speaker 02

  So trying to set it up as if, uh, uh, he was never at the house.

• 45:57Speaker 00

  It sure seems that way.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  Right? Obviously, if he, well, we know he killed Brad. That's not in doubt. So if that's the case, why is he sending these texts? And there's only one thing that makes sense, and it's what you just said.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:11Speaker 00

  He's trying to, to cover his ass. He's trying to set up a timeline that does make it seem as though, yeah, he was there in case somebody sees him. But he was, he didn't meet up with Brad. And so he's texting him to say that, "Hey, stop by. You weren't there. Call me later. I'll come back." The defense called on a friend of Brad's who testified that many years earlier, he heard Brad mention buying a Derringer, but he never saw the gun. The witness also testified that if Brad got upset, he would shout and go cry in the corner. But he was not the type to start a physical fight. Brad was upset that David had to back

• 46:54Speaker 00

  off when his wife became suspicious. And he was upset when David wanted to break up, but stay friends. At the end of 2016, Brad was thinking of exposing the affair to Sherry. When he learned David spoke about possibly killing himself due to the situation, the witness told Brad not to push so hard and just accept a relationship as it existed. Brad joked to his friend that he should read the news and check on him more often. That's a little eerie.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  It is.

• 47:28Speaker 00

  Knowing what, you know, ultimately happened to, to Brad. The jury watched David's police interview. When asked why he shot Brad twice, David said, "It just happened." And that's a, it's kind of a strange answer.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  To that very specific question.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  But it seems like an honest answer to me. It just happened. It's strange.

• 47:52Speaker 00

  It doesn't seem honest to me at all.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Well, I'm thinking, I mean, he, he shot him. And I think he shot him again, just to make sure he was dead.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Right, but that isn't just happening.

• 48:02Speaker 02

  Well.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  You have to make a conscious decision.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 48:06Speaker 00

  Like, when you say it just happened, it's like, well, you know, I, I slipped on some ice. It just happened.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got you.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  I didn't plan for it.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  This guy is down. He's already been shot once.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  And you're gonna shoot him in the head? To me, that's not just happening. I think it's a little more deliberate.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  And maybe David, you know, did that because Brad was still somewhat alive, you know, and wanted to make sure, like, hmm, I can't leave.

• 48:33Speaker 00

  What does somewhat alive mean?

• 48:35Speaker 02

  That he was still alive.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  You're either alive or you're not.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  He was still alive. You know, I don't know.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  To what extent or how well he was doing?

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get that part.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  So he thought was, well, I better just go ahead and shoot him one more time.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  No, I, I think that's, I think that's right. I think he wanted to ensure, I just hit the mic. He wanted to ensure that David was dead.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, because if David was.

• 48:59Speaker 00

  Or that Brad was dead.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, Brad was still alive. Brad could potentially talk and say, "This is what happened."

• 49:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, and maybe recover and, and all that. So to me, that's where you get back to, you know, this really was an execution.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 49:13Speaker 00

  I, I think you have to kind of look at it like that. On February 6, 2018, David Kenny was found guilty of aggravated murder with a firearm specification. On February 14th, he was sentenced to life without parole. The state petition for life without parole, while the defense argued, there was reason to believe David could be a productive and lawful citizen later in life. I mean, you could make all kinds of arguments, right?

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  But he killed this man in cold blood.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  And tried to cover it up.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  And tried to cover it up. And could he be a productive member of society? Possibly. Does he deserve to spend the rest of his life in jail? You could certainly make that argument.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  I mean, think about the reason why he killed. Not a really great reason to kill somebody, is it?

• 50:05Speaker 00

  No, because he didn't want his life torn apart.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  I, I don't see it any differently than when a spouse kills a spouse because they don't want to get divorced.

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  They don't want to pay alimony. They don't want to pay child support. They don't want to not be able to see their kids. You know, I, I view it very much in the same way.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  He's a grown man. He made the decision to have an affair, but didn't want to live with the consequences of that affair.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. Judge Frank Fred Giato asked the court per WTOV9, "If this man was able to do an assassin's job to someone he loved and was his best friend, what could he do to his enemy or someone who opposed him?"

• 50:50Speaker 02

  That's a great question.

• 50:51Speaker 00

  It really is. And it, it's kind of like, oh, the judge is saying, "Life sentence seems correct, right? Seems like the, the right thing to do." David offered a brief apology, but no explanation, saying, "I would like to apologize to the McGarry family for all the hurt and pain I put you through. I didn't mean for any of this to happen, and I wish I could take it all back. All the apologies in the world will never bring him back, but I want you to know, I am truly sorry for it all."

• 51:23Speaker 02

  It seems like he missed a, an additional apology there to his wife and kids.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah. And maybe he did, and we, I didn't see it, or they didn't report on it. But again, what's he sorry for? Is he sorry that he took this man's life? Or is he sorry that he got caught and he's gonna spend the rest of his life in prison?

• 51:47Speaker 02

  I think the latter.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  I normally think the latter. In 2019, David lost his appeal to the Ohio Supreme Court. Dateline spoke to Sherry Kenny as part of their coverage of the Brad McGarry case. She revealed that she divorced David and tried to move on. She had remarried and was focused on her life ahead and being there for her children.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  I don't know what else she could do.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  No, I don't. I mean, good for her to move on.

• 52:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's got to move on from this guy.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:16Speaker 00

  Obviously, he cheated on her. He killed the man and then asked her to come down and witness the body.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  As though he didn't know the body was there. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, Brad was in love with this guy, David Kenny. I think they were best friends. I think they were lovers. But David had no intentions of ever leaving his wife.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  Having a real relationship with Brad. They had an affair for years.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Gradually, uh, you know, Brad became upset with David because I think he just was stringing him along and he was never going to leave his wife. He then plotted, um, to kill Brad. He called his, you know, best friend to try to protect his secret.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  But there were so many things, right? Phone records, uh, surveillance video, witness statements.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  GPS.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  GPS that discredited his stories. And he didn't have just one story, right? He had like four or five.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  And that's the problem.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  And they changed every time from, "I found the body," to ultimately, "I shot him," but it was all in self-defense.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:39Speaker 00

  And there was a whole bunch of different ones in between. Um, but, you know, again, why do people make the decisions they do?

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, it doesn't, I mean, just, if that's the route you, you decided to go to have an affair, now you're gonna be caught? Deal with it.

• 53:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. And there was a, there's a bunch of ways he could have dealt with it.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  He could have faced his wife and said, "Look, here's what I did."

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:07Speaker 00

  "I'm sorry." And hopefully they could have worked it out. Maybe not. Maybe she divorces him.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 54:14Speaker 00

  But that's what happened.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:15Speaker 00

  Right? When you choose to do something like that, there could be very negative consequences.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:23Speaker 00

  But, you know, people don't want to do that. They don't want to face.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  No.

• 54:27Speaker 00

  The hard part.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Most don't.

• 54:29Speaker 00

  And they're willing to kill, though, to keep from having to do that. That, that's the shocking part.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Well, that's because they think they're, they're, they're, they're good at it, or they're.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  They're smart. They're not gonna get away with it.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, they're gonna be fine.

• 54:44Speaker 00

  They're smarter than everybody else. They're smarter than the police, and the police won't figure them out. Uh, this, this one wasn't too hard to solve, though.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  No.

• 54:54Speaker 00

  Really, if you think about it. But that's it for our episode on, uh, Brad McGarry. And another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  And Gibby.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.