Session 145: Carly Rae Jepsen

When I heard that live... I nearly fell to the floor. Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/THERAPUSS⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $25 discount Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Carly! https://www.carlyraemusic.com/ Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:41Speaker 01

  Tonight on Therapus, we have, well, you know what, Manny? Let me let you do the introduction.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  Oh my God. Okay. Hi pussies. Tonight on Therapus, we have the wonderful, the amazing, the wickedly talented Carly Rae Jepsen.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Woo! Whose new album, Day and Night, a double album, is out now. What does Carly Rae Jepsen mean to you, Manny?

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Oh my God. She means everything to me. Like, her music is just, one, it's like catchy as hell. It's so good. It's like I dance to it all the time. But also, like, I've gone through breakups, I've gone through friendship things, whatever. All her songs have something meaningful that like I relate to and they're fun, most of them. Some of them are sad, but like-

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Even the sad ones are fun.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  I know, I know.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  We are missing the writings on the wall. Your type.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Oh, duh. Yeah, I know.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  I'm not the type of girl for you.

• 1:47Speaker 02

  And I'm not going to pretend.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  That I'm the type of girl you call more than a-

• 1:52Speaker 02

  Than a friend.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Oh my God. That song is one of the most perfect pop songs ever.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  I know.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  And it just so happens to also exist on the album with another perfect pop song, Run Away With Me.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Stuck in my head, stuck in my heart, stuck in my body, body. I wanna go get out of here, sick of the party, party. I wanna way, I wanna way with you. Ooh. This is the part everyone sees, all that you're feeling, feeling. Thinking tonight, and then I'm like, everyone's sleeping, sleeping. I wanna way, I wanna way with you. Ooh. Cause you make me feel like I could be driving you all night. And I'll keep your lips in the streetlights.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  I wanna be there with you. Ooh. Oh, baby, take me to the feeling. I'll be your sinner in secret. When the lights go out, run away with me, run away with me, baby.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  You just get to the whole song?

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Every single minute. I'll be your sinner in secret. When the lights go out, run away with me, run away with me. Ladies and gentlemen, Carly Rae Jepsen. Her new album, Day and Night, is out now. And if you haven't heard it, please listen to it. She is one of the greatest pop stars of our life.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Pussies, enjoy the episode. I love you.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Here to talk about her eighth studio album, Day and Night, Carly Rae Jepsen.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Thank you for being here.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  I'm so excited!

• 4:19Speaker 03

  I am so excited.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Emotion is like, seriously, I know we're here to talk about your new album, but I have to touch on Emotion, which is my favorite album of all time.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  Oh, I like, I don't even know what to say to that. Thank you so, so much.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  And is it true that it was born, you wrote it while you were in Cinderella?

• 4:38Speaker 03

  It, yeah, that's how it started, at least. I, I was in the middle of singing really sweet, soft songs, being a princess, which was lovely. And then in the evening, I, like, late at night after that, or sometimes during the day, I needed some, I needed some percussion back in my life. I was listening to a lot of like Prince albums and I thought, the eighties, man. There's something about the eighties that is just so hard on your sleeve. Like, cut to like all of the feelings and I, I actually just said that, didn't I? Yeah, but, but I wanted, I wanted to go there.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  That's my favorite song.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  Is it really?

• 5:13Speaker 01

  That is my favorite song. Hers is, uh, Warm Blood.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  Hey. I mean, yeah, no, I, I really wanted to do something different. I always wanted to do something different. Same with Day and Night. It's, it's just, it's really exciting to kind of go explore a different sonic world than you've been in before.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  And, cause I read that you were, initially wrote like a folk album and then you scrapped it and then-

• 5:35Speaker 03

  It was kind of folky. It was a little like grungy. I don't know what it was. I, I think I was rebelling, call me maybe, when I went into the studio right away. Which I think is a natural reaction, looking back. I was like, oh, it was very like sweet and funny and cute with that song, but now I wanna do something serious. So I was looking for, um, you know, all the other things that I loved about music, which I, I came from a very folk-influenced family. Like, we grew up on Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen and Cat Stevens. And so it felt like my roots to find something a little folky, grungy. And I remember writing a lot with Tegan and Sara. I met some New York people who got what I was going for. And I felt like that was an important time for me to get something out of my system.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  And, and yet I hadn't found it yet. And if you know me, I know when I find it. And the first song that I wrote for Emotion where I actually was like, okay, I know what it is I wanna do and it's this, was actually the song Emotion. And I, I came home and I felt that sort of excitement of like, okay, I wanna discover what this world feels like. And it's eighties pop. I wanna live there and I wanna figure out what my spin of that looks like.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  And did you, when you talk about writing and creating music, do you start with a beat?

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Like a track?

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a, like a track. Or do you start with lyrics?

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Uh, usually, I, I think there's no usually, actually. I was gonna start talking and then I realized I had nowhere, I had no idea where I was going. It's always different.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  I think that's why it's like gonna be like an art form that I'll never really fully understand or completely be, you know, a master of. I think it's something that you're constantly learning at. And what I love about approaching music from different angles is you'll get a completely different outcome. So when you're arriving with, or when I'm arriving with like collaborators that I've been in the room with for a long time, that know me well, that I feel intimate with, my favorite thing to do is just like play. And what that means is like someone grabs a guitar and I grab one of these and we just like riff and we sing. And we talk about what's going on in each other's lives and something kind of just really naturally stands out to us. I more often than not love a kind of writing that I call almost like free-form writing,

• 7:48Speaker 03

  where you're just sort of singing without judging it too much. And then like an idea or two will come out from that. That feels really exciting to me. But every once in a while, I'll get like a concept too, like a good old-fashioned like LA concept where I'm like, I really wanna write about like the dating scene in LA or I really wanna talk about, you know, something quite specific. And then I'll like, I'll be talking with friends about it. I'll be like, almost like collecting intel for my song for like months.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Is that how like LA hallucinations started?

• 8:17Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh. LA hallucinations just came from like my deep confusion and at the time, hate of Los Angeles. Which was just wild, cause I live here still now and I've grown to love it, but at the time I did not understand.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  It's somewhere you have to grow to love.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Yes, it's a slow burn.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  And, I mean, we were touching on this before in the other room, but New York is like, I'm in immediately. Whereas Los Angeles, I, I needed to find my people. I needed to understand the art of the, like, the poetry of the city. It's kind of hidden.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  You have to like go digging.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  And it's also like, you're at the mercy of a car.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Whereas in New York, like you have this automatic like autonomy of just being able to like, take your body anywhere you want without a vehicle.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  A hundred percent. And I don't know about you, but I'm a, like, it's hard for me to go out and be social. Like, I kind of am a little bit of like a homebody. I like my comforts. And so with New York, I feel like I'm pushed into more socialness. Like I'll, I just walk on the street and all of a sudden there's a bookstore and there's like,

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Yes!

• 9:21Speaker 03

  I have this opportunity to be like romanced by a place and surprised by like the spontaneity of it. And it brings something out in my partner and I too, where we're like more spontaneous together. We're like, should we go get ice cream in the rain? Like, yes, we should. Like, and like where else would I do that? Where, in like Los Angeles, you're like, should we go get ice cream in the rain? You're like, first of all, it's like never raining. And actually, today it is. But generally, you're like, I mean, okay, like get in the car. It's like a whole journey.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  It's a whole journey and it's too much.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Like in New York, I'm like, I'm walking down the street the other week and I'm like, oh my God, there's a record store. I don't even have a fucking record player. And I walk-

• 9:58Speaker 03

  You don't have, whoa.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Well, now I do. Now I do. Now I do. It's broken. But now I do.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Okay, but record players?

• 10:08Speaker 01

  They hit different. I was at my friend Will's house the other day and he like put on like, um- Uh, like, uh, I think it was like a James Taylor record and it just like really set the mood and the vibe and like, it was like, I was like, this is so different than just listening to music on TV.

• 10:23Speaker 03

  Well, in this day and age, I think it's a rare moment that you listen to an album and it's completion. You're generally skipping, we have access to it all. You're like, okay, James, it was a vibe and now I wanna like jump to this. But if you put on an album, you're committed for a second until that needle pops. And I feel like that is nice to slow life down a little bit and like live in the world that the artist has created for you. James Taylor, I think you must know, but he's one of my, my biggest inspirations of all time.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, Fire and Rain is one of my favorite songs of all time.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  Think about how many times he sang that song though. Like it makes me feel better about Call Me Maybe. I'm like, he sang that song so many times. Like him and I should start a support group. Be like, how many times did you sing your song?

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Do you get tired of singing Call Me Maybe?

• 11:06Speaker 03

  I mean, no, because it does, it takes on quite a different, I mean, the answer is no now. There was a definite time when the answer was yes, when that's like all I had made. But I think enough albums have come by and enough shows have happened where it's now, it's just sort of like a nostalgic moment and it doesn't feel like my moment. It feels sort of like the crowd takes over and you kind of feel people like being like, oh, remember when and how this was a part of their lives. So it feels celebratory and it feels like a quick kind of moment in the set that sort of passes by sweetly. Yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  It's also like, I don't associate you as like with Call Me Maybe as I do with, as much with Run Away With Me or Your Type or like, you know, like all these, like, it's like I, there, you are so much more of an artist than that just, that one song.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  That's wild and thank you.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  It's true. Like, it really is true. Like talking about listening to an album in completion. Emotion is one of those albums that I can literally listen to front to back without skipping a song, cause it just like takes me on this like masterful journey. It starts with Run Away With Me and like, you know, and you're like basically asking the listener to run away with you and it, it works. But before you released Emotion, did you feel like this pressure to follow up Call Me Maybe or like frustration almost?

• 12:26Speaker 03

  You know, I felt a mixed bag of things. It's hard to like totally go back there and remember, but I do remember a really clear moment of, of, of just like an epiphany that someone gave to me, my guitarist gave to me, actually Tavish Kraw, where we were walking in New York together. And he's sort of like my main man in terms of like adopted brother in a weird way in my life. He's always been a support. And he sort of said, with this song, you now have a stage for the first time in your life to actually show the world what I already know about you, which is like all the other types of music that you have in you. And he's like, so if you stop thinking of like trying to follow that up, but instead just like know what you know and like

• 13:08Speaker 03

  now create what you want to, this could be an incredible opportunity. And it just like flipped this, like I was thinking, how am I gonna keep doing the same thing? Cause they like this and that's one element of what I do, but it's not all of it. And I think ultimately if I had tried to keep making Call Me Maybe's, I would have been really deeply unsatisfied as an artist. So it was nice to honor that that's like one flavor of what I love, but he was right. It was a chance for me to kind of shake off any expectations and just do what I only know how to do, which is, you know, make music from a really honest place. But I wasn't able to go there right away. That's why I kind of took a detour and did like Cinderella.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  I just like needed a second to like get my bearings, figure out what it was next. And that's how Emotion was born. Yeah.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Do you, I, I must ask how the song Run Away With Me was born? Cause that song, like that is one of the most cinematic songs of all time, in my opinion. Did it start with the horns? Did it start with the lyrics?

• 14:05Speaker 03

  It did. So this is the one, I went to Sweden and the land of pop, as we all know, right? And I met with Matthias and Robin and Noonie Bow and I think their, the producers' names were Matt Men and Robin. I was so excited to meet them. And they, it was our, it was our meet cute actually. And they showed me a couple of different tracks that I think they played me like eight different things. And when they played the riff for the da, da, da, da, I like stood up and I was like, this one, let's play out this today. And we didn't really know what we were gonna make yet. In fact, I think the beginning of the song that actually you hear today, that was our entry point was the

• 14:47Speaker 03

  and it was to this line, oh Dominica, like it was a completely different lyric. It just started there. And I went home with a, a song about a guy named Dominique. And I was like, alright, there's something to it though. And like a couple of months later, we call again and I was like, I think we need to go back to Sweden and finish this song. And we went back and we, we worked it. They even challenged ideas of the song that I thought were right. And then we got them better. I think in that song, I learned about the art of reworking something. Cause I think it took on four different forms or three different forms before we got it right. And it sounds quite simple, but doing simple pop is more complicated, I think, than people realize.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  Cause it's a lot about what you take out as much as what you keep in. And once we landed on it, I, I don't think we, we knew exactly how the world would respond, but we knew how we felt and we were all like dancing while we were making that song. I always think that's a really good sign.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  When you released Emotion, were you anticipating a Call Me Maybe quick fire success? Or were you, or were you ready for it to be more of like a slow burn of people to find it and love it and make it theirs?

• 15:55Speaker 03

  You know, it's interesting having a partner now, cause he's really offered some perspective on my personality of like little blind spots that I didn't know. And I've become aware that I've always existed as like a little bit of a worst case scenario person. Like I do actually find comfort by thinking like, what's the worst possible thing that could happen here and am I okay with it? I don't know if that's like a dark quality about me or if it's just like how I've survived.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  It's just a quality.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Okay, cool, cool, cool. You're the same way.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm the biggest catastrophist in the entire world.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  So when I say that I had no expectations, I had no expectations for it. Like I was pretty sure the world had forgotten that this was just gonna be like some little pet project for me and that, you know, I would hope that if somebody got it, at least somebody got it. And so, um, yeah, no, I, I, if anything, I was just more delighted, even at our first like little club show, I was like, they know the words. Like we put this out like four days ago and they know the words to it. Not just one song, but every song. And that to me was a victory. And then what happened after that was sort of wild beyond my wildest dreams, to be honest. Yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  What do you love about pop music? Like what, what is your, like, cause

• 17:02Speaker 03

  How much time do you have?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  I have all the time in the world! Why did I just say that?

• 17:09Speaker 03

  I mean, the other thing is though, there's so much that I hate about pop music. And like that, that's what I think is so interesting. And I've said this before, it's a genre that is like a love hate genre for me. Like when it's done well, I love it. And when it's done poorly, I cannot wait to turn it off. And I think, um, just realizing, I think that we all have that reaction to pop music. I think that's why it's so like cutthroat. Like, you know, like it's a hard genre to play in because you're gonna, I think it's very rare you hear a pop song and you're like, I'm okay on it. People have like intense opinions about it. And so do I. I, I don't know. I think that what I love is its ability to

• 17:51Speaker 03

  like transport you to a feeling that maybe you've had before, that you wanna feel that you haven't had yet. Where you can kind of take on in a very cinematic way, somebody else's emotion. I think its ability to connect people is very exciting. I, I love that part of it. I think that's the joy of my life of seeing the connections that happen and the way that it can kind of, I don't know, become somebody else's song and no longer yours. I think that that feels amazing to me when that happens.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Well, when, when it's done badly, what do you, what, what do you think makes it bad?

• 18:23Speaker 03

  By the way, I have written a lot of bad pop songs myself. And when it happens, I'm like, oh God. And it, it haunts me to this day that I've like let some of those out. But it's just, I mean, you swing and you miss. That's part of being a artist too. But I think when it's bad, to me, when it's bad is you can tell. Even though when I say that the simplicity, almost like a jazz song, you only have so many lyrics that you can get in there. So each one counts. I think when you're not actually buying what you're selling, like if you're talking about an emotion and you're just doing it for like the jingle sake of the jingle, but I don't know. I think there's a way to even do that well, where it's like fun and playful and you know what you're doing.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  But when you're like half-heartedly in it, I think sometimes that, that people are very intelligent and they can sniff that out really quickly. And you can't exactly put your finger on why, but it feels fake. I think that is, is when I don't like a pop song.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Where it just feels, yeah, inauthentic.

• 19:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, carbon copy. Like just sort of something about it feels cardboard.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And not like, yeah, not, there's no depth there.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. I think, I mean, that's why I resonate so much with your music. There is so much depth. It's so, it is, I keep saying it, but it's so cinematic. And like, I, you know, I, it's real. It's a tangible feeling. I think that's what's the beauty of pop music is like, it creates this like tangible, like movie in your head. And I was thinking about being driven home by someone that I had a crush on. And I was like, oh my God, yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  I wanna hear more about your crush.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Well, I don't think he wants anything to fucking do with me, so.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  What do you mean?

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Like literally nothing to do with me. I'm just at this point, it's so past the point. I can't even, I can't.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  I love that I get to work with SeatGeek because so many of my guests are musicians who get to go on tour. And if you end up listening to them and loving them, or if you already love them, you can use my code THERAPIST for 10% off your order on SeatGeek. The reason SeatGeek is the best place to get tickets for any live event, whether it be comedy, Broadway, music, sporting, is because it rates your tickets that you would buy on a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being not the best and 10 being the best, so you know if you're getting a good bang for your buck. Also, if you click the link in the description and download the app, it will automatically apply the code THERAPIST for 10% off your order, so you can see every concert your heart desires, or every comedy show, or every Broadway show, or every sporting event you wish to see.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Thank you again, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. What pop artists are you listening to right now that excite you?

• 21:01Speaker 03

  Oh, so many. There's so many. I mean, I think that, speaking of perfect albums, I think Robyn is, has been top of her game. I mean, she's so inspiring in the fact that I feel like she also kind of like took a break, figured out what it was that she had to say about pop, and came back with such intention and then like blew the world away. But I feel like that's a cop out answer that everybody picks. However, I'm gonna go with it anyways. There's a reason for it.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  There is a reason for it.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  And I think she's brought an artfulness to pop that excites me too, because it can be thought of as like a frivolous genre, but I think there's such a thing as intelligent pop music, and that's what I'm interested in figuring out how to make, you know? And I think she's one of the first people who showed me a really cool flavor of how to do that in her own way, and I wanted to figure out my own as well.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, "Call Your Girlfriend" is one of my favorite songs of all time. "Dancing on My Own," one of my favorite songs of all time, like...

• 21:52Speaker 03

  All of them.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  It's just unbelievable.

• 21:55Speaker 03

  I mean, that whole album is insane. But yeah, I actually, she's coming to LA soon. I got tickets. Are you going?

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Wait, when is she coming to LA?

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Like, soon.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  We have to. I've never seen "Dancing on My Own" live.

• 22:05Speaker 03

  We all must go. Let's go.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Your 10-year anniversary show of "Emotion"...

• 22:10Speaker 03

  And you're wearing the merch, man.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Me and Manny were there.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  Very cute.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Manny, we were like stuffed in a group of people, and Manny said, "Excuse me." And she walked to the side because she had to dance so hard.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  It was, what did that feel like for you to do that 10-year? I mean, people knew every single lyric to that, to every single song. Like, what did it feel like for you?

• 22:31Speaker 03

  It was a wild night. Well, first of all, I mean, I hadn't really announced it yet, but I was four months pregnant during that show.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  What?

• 22:39Speaker 03

  I know. Which is wild, because that's why we just did the one show. I was like, alright, this is gonna be kind of crazy. And I remember my, both my, my family came to town, so my mother and my stepmother and my father and my stepmother were all in the balcony at the back. And every time I would kind of like be in the moment, because the crowd was like, just, just, you know, the best energy. So you're kind of, you know, getting lost in it. And I'd step on a speaker, and my two mothers would be like, "Get down, you're in high heels." And I'm like, "Oh, yes, sorry, sorry, sorry." But yeah, it was, it was incredible. And I honestly, I, I don't, I don't, I can't explain the pain of sometimes putting out a body of work and then you only get a short amount of time when you do a show. So you're kind of trying to like pick a couple from "Emotion," and a couple from Kiss and Dedicated and Lonely.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  And at this point, you're like, okay, well, I guess we can take like the hits off each one. But when you actually like get to like go in and take your time with one album, I mean, we've played songs that I've never played live before, like "Never Get to Hold You." I've never really done that one before, and we're like, okay. So it was, not only was it like lovely for my band and I to revisit a body of work that we cared so much about, but to really get to like go into like the deep cuts in a way with a room full of people who got it, it was just, it was, that was lovely.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  I mean, "Your Type," like, you know, do you know that, I got a DM the other day, because I was, I think I posted something about, oh yeah, I posted like that I was listening to "Emotion," and someone swiped up and said, "Your Type is like the anthem for gay guys who are in love with straight men." Have you heard that before?

• 24:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  It's true. And I read that, and I was like, damn. Yeah, it is true. And that is, when I heard that live, do you remember, I nearly fell to the floor.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  You were screaming it. Screaming every lyric.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  And then when you said, you introduced "Boy Problems," you said, how, you were like, "Does anyone have boy problems?" And everyone screamed. It was just...

• 24:34Speaker 03

  It was a very sweaty, fun night. I mean, I always leave a show feeling like I need a shower, and I come home and there's like some new glitter somewhere on my body that I didn't find, and I'm like, that's how I want to leave it, for sure.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  You know, like, and so, it was, it was really fun.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  You know who's doing their albums front to back right now is Lily Allen. She's on the...

• 24:54Speaker 03

  I saw her.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:56Speaker 03

  I saw her when she came.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  How was it?

• 24:58Speaker 03

  It was really good. It was like an art, like, I mean, I really, I, I read while I listened to that album, because it was so salacious.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  It was so salacious!

• 25:05Speaker 03

  I know. And I loved it. I feel like it was bold, and I, I almost think it played out like a musical.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  And so I was just, I really, chef's kiss. Good job, Lily.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Well, speaking of musicals...

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  You and Lena Dunham...

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Are working on the 10 Things...

• 25:20Speaker 03

  I'm making one!

• 25:21Speaker 01

  You're making one, the 10 Things I Hate About You musical.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  How, what is the process of that looking like?

• 25:26Speaker 03

  Um, it is incre, it's incredible. It's been like the dream of all dream projects. I mean, you can't really think of a better script to get your hands on.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  I mean, that story is iconic for a reason, and I think has a cult following for a reason. And our whole team is, is really like, from day one, it was good, and then it's just gotten more and more stacked. So Ethan Greska is my writing partner, we're doing the music. Lena is working with Jessica Wong on the script, and we have Christopher Wieldon, who's like choreographer slash director, ballerina extraordinaire, Tom Kitt, who's like, you know, music director of my dreams. So it's just, it just like keeps getting kind of like blow your mind wild. And I know I just like name dropped a bunch of people, but these are like the Wizard of Oz people to me, so I'm, I'm very, very proud.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Well, you're a, you're a theater kid.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  I am a theater nerd for sure.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  You were Annie and Annie.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  How did you know that?

• 26:19Speaker 01

  You were Sandy and Grease.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh, yes.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Because I love you!

• 26:23Speaker 03

  I guess the internet does exist. Yes, I was. Oh, God. I, I mean, I joke, because I was in a very small community theater in Mission BC, which is close to Vancouver in Canada. And on the night that Annie closed, I said to my parents, "What if I'm just this child's star?"

• 26:43Speaker 01

  And what, were they like...

• 26:46Speaker 03

  And they were like, "No one knows who you are. Relax." But, you know, yeah.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  But when you auditioned for Canadian Idol, was it, was Canadian Idol as big in Canada as American Idol was here?

• 26:58Speaker 03

  I mean, at the time, it felt big to me, but I was in it. Like, it felt, it felt all encompassing, because it was my whole little wild world at the time. But yeah, what a, what a training and just like brutal takedowns publicly. You, you gotta, you gotta do a Canadian Idol or an American Idol run to see if you've got that like alligator skin for what the music business is in. And I was happy to report that I kind of did. Like, I was like, this is wild, but I can like take it with a grain of salt.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  And then where was "Call Me Maybe" born after that?

• 27:31Speaker 03

  Well, it's actually an interesting, like, point to say, to ask that question, because I really don't think "Call Me Maybe" would have had its life without Canadian Idol. And what I mean by that is, it was like my first exposure on TV, and I got third. So I, I actually had a pretty lucky run, because I, I had like the notoriety, but no contract.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  So it was like a beautiful place to start. And I was just looking for my way in, and my way in to a management deal, to a label, to anything that could kind of help me be able to get these songs I was writing heard. And even like on Canadian Idol, I think in the auditions, they had one rule, which was just like sing a song, but not your own. And I was like, well, I'm gonna sing my own, because I was like, this is my one chance on TV. Like, I was excited. But it ended up being really helpful in terms of securing those things. So I had a management team after that, I got signed to my first label deal, and there's this, you know, amazing thing that happened where I, I got to start making an album. And I, I met sort of like-minded creators, Ryan Stewart, Josh Ramsey, and these producers helped me put together a body of work.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  And "Call Me Maybe" was born with Josh and Tavish. And, and yeah, I, I don't think anybody expected it to take off the way they did, but that was just one of those lucky lightning moments that happen in life, where you look back and you're like, I don't think we could have curated all that magic had we tried our hardest. It was just sort of being hit with, you know, some lightning, really. And Twitter kind of being at the beginning of what Twitter was, so it was just the stars aligning in a beautiful way. Yeah, yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Do you have a favorite song off this upcoming album?

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Oh, I think, I think I don't, actually, which makes me happy, because I, I feel like it's, it changes depending on my mood. Is that a lame answer?

• 29:23Speaker 01

  No!

• 29:24Speaker 03

  It kind of does, though.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  That's the sign of a great album, by the way. You can never, I always say the sign of a perfect album is one where everybody has a different answer for their favorite song.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  So like, "Emotion," you will say, "What's your favorite song?" Someone will say, "Your Type." Someone will say, "Run Away With Me." Someone will say, "LA Hallucinations," or like Norman fucking Rockwell with Lana Del Rey. Everybody has a different favorite song. And like, that's the song, that's the sign of like a 10 out of 10 album.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Oh, well, here's hoping. I think my best answer is that, right now, for day... I like blue skies. It's sort of my like attempt at trying to honor Minnie Riperton, like with some psychedelic folk. And then for nighttime, right now, I'm gonna say near or far. And I say near or far because it was the most like experimental track. And it almost didn't make the album because I I got slightly in my head that it was too weird. And then I decided that that's exactly why it needed to make the album at the end of the day. So I I went for it and I'm really glad I did.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Where did the concept for this double album come to be?

• 30:29Speaker 03

  Quite simply, I I couldn't decide what I wanted to do because I wanted to do two things so passionately. Like, I really wanted to make like a synth-based intense nighttime album that felt like you're in your emotions. You're okay to like go there. It's a little bit less like a story song and a bit more like an experience. So a lot of like freeform writing in there where you're like little poems put to music kind of thing. And I loved that idea. And then I really also felt like something was calling me, maybe from a little bit of my childhood and my upbringing too, about these like kind of good old fashioned story songs. But my my spin on like what I loved about the James Taylors and stuff was like how to like play with, you know, something that felt a little bit more psychedelic than that, something that felt a little dreamy.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  A little bit like what I'd want to listen to in my life moving through the house. And they they didn't start with the title day and night. It was just these two kind of lanes I was writing in. And when I would put something like Wild Child, which is like quite like a stripped down acoustic number next to something like, Don't Leave Me on the Dance Floor, it was looking like I was having an identity crisis. And so I was like, I just need to like choose. And luckily, it was again, my guitarist, my little adopted brother Tab, who like came in to New York, heard what I was making. And quite frankly, was like, why don't we make it like a house party? Like, there's an upstairs, there's a downstairs.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that!

• 31:49Speaker 03

  There's like two moves going on. And I was like, yes! And then later on, when I was driving in Los Angeles, I was like day and night. And as soon as I knew that that's what I was doing, I kind of showed up with so much intention and excitement at every session after that. And and then Twelve and Twelve was quite simply because I was like 24 hours in a day. Get it? Ah, day and night!

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Day and night! Do you, are you planning on touring the album?

• 32:17Speaker 03

  Could you imagine if I made all of this body of work and then was just like, no?

• 32:21Speaker 01

  You know what? I could, because Bonnie Vera just put out this whole thing and was like, I'm not touring it.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  And I was like...

• 32:27Speaker 03

  No, touring's the most fun part. Are you kidding me? The whole reason I make the music is so I can go tour it, absolutely. I mean, I haven't like officially announced anything yet, and I don't know if I'm allowed to give this away. But we will 100% go and celebrate the album, for sure.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Are you struggling right now with like picking which tracks to do? Because it's, there's so many, and then you also have stuff from Emotion and...

• 32:47Speaker 03

  You know, it becomes quite clear in rehearsals which songs translate, translate, sorry, in the cleanest, like clearest way. And what I mean by that is sometimes like even a stripped down moment can be just as powerful as like a dancing moment. But you can't like know it until you you put it on its feet. And and that's what rehearsal is for, is kind of figuring out how do these exist in real life outside from the studio? Because even the way you sing in a studio is a completely different thing than the way you sing live. Like, it all changes. Well, I mean, with headphones in a small little box.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  With your eyes closed, feeling a thing in a soft way, it's a very different thing than sharing it in a room, even if it's the same song. And so I feel like if you can't capture that same intimacy with something, and there's some songs you can do that with, and there's other songs where it becomes a little bit more challenging, then it's best to like keep that for the record and do something different on stage, or change it up. That's always an option, too. But I've come to really love the stripped down moments. Like, one of my favorite songs live actually has been Collage, which I would have thought it was only a studio song, but actually translates really well to stage. Because I feel like by the time we played in the set, we're usually, we've sweated enough and we need to come down together anyway.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 34:02Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? Yeah.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Do you ever like doing festival shows?

• 34:06Speaker 03

  Festivals are my favorite, actually. I mean, I really do love my own show as well, because you get more to play with in terms of production. And like, really, I mean, with the loneliest and loveliest time, I got very indulgent with my moon. And I was like, the moon will talk!

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:21Speaker 03

  And it'll tell everyone to forget their worries, and then we'll start to play, you know? And that's like, you know, that's part of the fun. But I think a festival is fun because it's a lot of new energy. I think everyone, you come to a festival, you're showing up to surrender your life for like a moment of being really present. And I think when you show up with that energy, it's like a contagious thing. And so there's a lot of opportunity for really blissful moments to happen at festivals, I think.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  I agree. It's one of those things where it's just like, everybody is like, it's it's a real moment of like being present.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  No one comes to a festival to be like, I'm in the mood to have a bad time.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Right?

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Right, yeah. And if you have, go home.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Drugs, and the wind is in your hair, and like, it's just like...

• 35:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  You you feel like you're watching like superstardom. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's what it feels like a sunset set at like Coachella or something, like...

• 35:13Speaker 03

  The best.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  I recently went to Daisy Chain and we saw Chapel Rowne.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  How was that? I heard good things.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  It was, it was awesome. And we saw Chapel Rowne, and I was just like so enamored. And the sun was setting, and the wind was in her hair, and I was like, this...

• 35:29Speaker 03

  It's a moment.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  It's a moment.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  And I think in my own history of like discovering other artists, that's always the most magical place to discover a new artist.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  Like, it's one thing to be like, oh, a friend sent me this link to Spotify, or my friend sent me this like little, I don't know, YouTube video to watch. But like, when you're like walking around, and then you're like, who's playing that? And you just gravitate to like, I remember that's how I saw Feist for the first time in Vancouver. And she was like in a little like white trench coat and her white guitar. And she was just playing, I was like, who is this? And that's how I discovered her, and it was like potent in my mind, it's like...

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Wow!

• 36:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  That, I I always say that's the best feeling on planet Earth, is discovering a song or an artist through a live performance. Because it'll...

• 36:10Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  It will never be better.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Tegan and Sara, too, that's how I learned to do that.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Really? Well, oh, well, what are you watching on television right now? Or movie-wise? If anything?

• 36:19Speaker 03

  Uh, I'm, I'm watching a very long, drawn out, but interesting show called My, My Brilliant Friend, am I getting that right?

• 36:31Speaker 03

  My Brilliant Friend. It's based off of a novel in Italy, in Naples, these two...

• 36:35Speaker 01

  I think it is My Brilliant Friend.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  My Brilliant Friend, My Brilliant Friend, yeah. And I'm, when I say I'm slow watching it, I have a six-month-old son, so it's been years.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  No, I actually just stopped watching it for a while, and I just started again like two nights ago. I was like, oh, okay, he's asleep, let me give it a go. It's good.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Do you, have you ever written a song based off of something you've seen in a movie or a television show?

• 37:00Speaker 03

  Versailles.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Really?

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  That's my favorite song off the new album!

• 37:04Speaker 03

  I'm so happy to hear that! So I was, I was staying at the Grand Hotel in Sweden, Stockholm, which is like my spot. And they didn't really have like, like movie rental spots, so you you're just watching whatever is like on the TV. And Sofia Coppola's version of Versailles, or Mary Antoinette was on. And I mean, like, the actual history of that is quite, quite heavy. But I was like, this version, this fantasy version, which is so indulgent and all about pleasure, is really exciting to me. And I'm in this place with, where, when I write recently, where I just am like kind of collecting whatever is being thrown at me in the day. So when I went into this session the next day, I was like, you know, the idea of Versailles is like, almost like a metaphor for what it is to like slow down and like live your best life, like that's interesting to me.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  And we even like slow the music down in the chorus.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  You do, the chorus slows.

• 37:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And I was just about to embark on this like month-long vacation, maybe almost turned into two months, with my partner at the time. He was my boyfriend, and he proposed on this trip. But we were about to like go venture into like a new era of like pleasure-seeking, the two of us. And Versailles was on the list of places we were gonna go, so it was like front of the brain. But that is definitely a song that came from a movie.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Wow!

• 38:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  That's so cool.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Also, do you prefer people call you Carly or Carly Rae?

• 38:23Speaker 03

  I think, I neither, I'll answer the both, but Carly's totally fine.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Right, because when I was watching your, because I watched your Canadian Idol audition, and you were Carly Jepsen.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Okay, fun fact, do you want to know how Carly Rae was born? I have never told this story. It is my full real name, Carly Rae Jepsen, and my mother's always called me Carly Rae. But no one else did. My, like, high school was just Carly, Carly, Carly. And then on Canadian Idol, they said, write your full name. And I took it very literally, and I wrote Carly Rae Jepsen. And the next day, they said Carly Rae. And I was like, all right, maybe it's more memorable, because it's a competition, maybe they will remember. And then it stayed, and it's been that way ever since.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  It's not that interesting, but that's how it happened. It wasn't like a really big choice, it was just kind of a coincidence, yeah.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Wow, well, Shane, you know Shane isn't my last name, it's my middle name.

• 39:15Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  And it came because I wasn't allowed to put my last name on Facebook in seventh grade.

• 39:19Speaker 03

  Oh, because your parents were being protective?

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  That's so sweet!

• 39:23Speaker 01

  And I wanted to make it, my last name is Rocho. And I was like, I wanted to make it Rocho so bad, and my mom was like, no, shame.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  That's so sweet!

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 03

  I love that you have protective parents like that. That's cute.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  What do you, when, do you ever think about like what the world, now that you have a kid?

• 39:41Speaker 03

  I never think about the world.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Like, like, like, like, so social media, phones, and like how you're gonna deal with that with like your kid?

• 39:49Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, it's terrifying. Yeah, I mean, I I try not to, you know, stay up in the night thinking about it. But it definitely like comes to mind, it's something my husband and I consider. I mean, we are wondering about this idea of just like taking him, hiding away somewhere in a cabin in Canada, and just like telling him that this little bubble we create is real life, but probably not the best way to go at it. So I think we're just gonna be careful about making sure that, you know, we're we're there for him, and that we're being careful about how early he gets access to all of it.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, my parents made me wait a very long time.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  That's good, I agree with that tactic.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  I think, I think they did, look at you now! You did, they did great, they did great!

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Well, Carly Rae...

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Hey!

• 40:32Speaker 01

  What?

• 40:36Speaker 01

  What are you therapist about today?

• 40:39Speaker 03

  Today specifically?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  It could be this week, this month. What are you angry about?

• 40:44Speaker 03

  Oh, what am I angry about?

• 40:46Speaker 01

  It could be something like, for me, what I was angry about,

• 40:51Speaker 01

  is I have a horrible deviated septum. And it sucks, and I need to get surgery.

• 40:58Speaker 03

  That does suck.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  And I know I have a deviated septum, and I went to a doctor. He said, "No, you don't have one." I said, "No, I do have one."

• 41:03Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. Okay, mine's very specific because I just had a child recently, okay? But I, I was watching this, Jesse Ware is a podcast, actually, about being pregnant. And the whole time, it's called, "Is It Normal?" And the whole time, you read all of these sort of like, or you hear all these women talk about all these crazy sort of things that happen during their pregnancy. And at the end, a doctor or a nurse comes on and says, "Yes, it is normal, but we don't know why, because it's women's health." And that pisses me off, that there isn't more information and education about women's health. Especially when we're out here just popping out babies left, right, and center, making the world go around. So that pisses me off, yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  It's a very valid thing to be pissed off about.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  Thank you. It pisses me off not just today, but all of the day.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  What are some of your favorite lyrics you've ever written?

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Of my own?

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  I don't know. But, but, oh, gosh.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Maybe that you're most proud of, on emotion.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  I think I liked "From Runaway With Me," "I'll Be Your Center In Secret." I liked that moment. I think that there is something I like to play with in terms of like, the coyness of like, being sort of the person who's the pursuer. But also like, being like, "I want to, however, I'm not going to, you know, make it too aggressive."

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:23Speaker 03

  You know, it's trying to find that nice little balance.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  I think that's why I resonate with it so much, because it's like, it's almost like this, like, shyness a bit. But it's like, "Please pursue me." Like, you know what I mean? It's like, "Please, just come with me and be in love with me." But like, I'm not gonna try too hard. Like, you know what I mean?

• 42:43Speaker 03

  I actually, I've been, I've been like, curious about what it is that makes you feel so alive when you are the person who is the pursuer. It's something that I, I've been talking about a little bit, but do you know what I mean? When you put yourself out there and you tell the person that you want them, and it's kind of a little scary, and you don't know what the reaction's gonna be. It's like, one of the times to be alive.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  I'm like, I'm actually like, dealing with that right now. Talk about my crush.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  I'm so glad we're back here.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  It's really why I came, is I just wanted to know.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Because I'm like, do I say to the, because we're like, having this back and forth. But then he's like, "But my friend will come to dinner," and I'm like, "But I don't want your friend to come to dinner." And I'm like, "Do I just ask him out, or do I get to know him more?" Like, do you know what I mean? It's like, it's, ah.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  I don't know. I, I definitely don't have all the answers, but I do think that it's confident to know what you wanted to say it.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Right?

• 43:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  That's what I think, too.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Oh, also, another question. This sword thing.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  How did this begin? For those that don't know, you were given a sword at almost every one of your shows now?

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, yep.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  And it started?

• 43:50Speaker 03

  I mean, you're asking me, but I also am just as confused as everybody. But basically, I've been told that there was a campaign that was started by somebody online. And it was like, "I want to give her a sword." And the answer was like, "Just because I think she deserves one." And somehow, it got signed by a couple of people or something. You're gonna have to do a fact check on this, but it caught wind.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  And then, lo and behold, I was like, at a show, and a couple of people decided to see it through and gave me like, an inflatable sword, or like, a wooden sword. Or like, concerned about how that got in, but still, got a sword. And then I was handed one on stage, and I was just as confused as everybody, and I was like, "Oh, a sword." And then that caught wind, and now I've given swords left, right, and center. I could like, make one of those little chairs from the Game of Thrones. With like inflatable swords.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  You should.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I should. I totally should.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  What inspired you to start putting out like, B-sides of your records?

• 44:44Speaker 03

  I didn't want to. I, I knew I had overwritten for emotion, and I was not the only person who was aware of that fact. So my A and R, at the time, was named John Eman, and he was like, "Can we do something with these like, other songs? I think that there's some potential here." And I was really nervous about it. I was like, I fluctuated. I was excited, and then I was nervous. And then I think the night before the release, I called him, and I was like, "I want to bail. I don't want to do it. It's a bad idea." And he was like, "Can you just trust me?" It's a B-side. People will understand that it's like, allowed to be a bit more experimental, or songs that you're like, a little less sure of. And I'm really glad that he talked me into it, because it became this place where now I look forward to it. Where it's like, "Oh, the B-sides is where I go to play."

• 45:28Speaker 03

  It's like, the time where I'm getting a little weirder, and a little bit more experimental. And so with Dedicated, I knew I was gonna make one. With The Loneliest And Love-iest Time, I kind of knew that was gonna happen. And with this project, I would say that the whole thing is like, a mix of, of just me playing and being weird. So it's like, not really like, a distinguishing A and B sides. They're both kind of equally important to me, and I wanted to show it all at once, because I showed up with that kind of intention, yeah.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Do you want to, I know this is a stupid question, but do you want to make music forever?

• 46:02Speaker 03

  I can't imagine a world where I don't create music in a part of my life, but I, I don't know. I think that it depends. I don't want to force it. I think what's been really lucky so far is, it kind of just visits me in my day. Like, I'll be playing with my son in the morning, and like, a melody will come, and I like, need to like, record it. And I like, hope that I can like, look at it later when I have time. Or, a lot of times, there's certain people who I just have that sort of spark with. And on this project, Nate Seifert and Kyle Shearer were two of those people where we'd get in a room, and it was really effortless. And like, we'd leave, and we'd have like, a week of that, and we're like, we wrote like, five songs for the album in five days. And it was just, it was easy, and they were all very different.

• 46:43Speaker 03

  And I think when I have those connections and friendships, it would be hard to ever want to give it up, because it really feels like magic. It, it's like the part of life that feels quite, like, my favorite, my favorite part of it.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  And so, yeah, I can't imagine, I can't imagine not, but I don't know that it always would be something that I would share in such a big way. Right now feels like a really fun time to share, because it's been a really prolific season, but we'll see.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you remember a studio session that you felt like, just was like, one of your favorite of all time? Like, one of your favorite memories in the studio?

• 47:21Speaker 03

  Well, it's funny that you talk about Runaway With Me, because that was a really a special day. And it was, I was meeting like, Noonie, who became like, a lifelong friend, and Matthias and Robyn, we worked together on a few other things. And so that was really special. But I would say for like, this Day and Night album,

• 47:39Speaker 03

  what was really cool is getting to work on some of the songs with my partner. And, and it's a really strange thing to write with your partner, because you have like, no filter. So in other spaces where you would be like, like, someone would say an idea, and maybe you don't like it, and you'd be like,

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  "Okay, like, that's interesting. Let's like, let's try it." And then you like, try it, and then you kind of try something else, and then you like, gently get to like, a place where you're happy again, and you're like, "Ah, okay." You know, sorry. With your partner, you're just like, "I hate that so much. I hate it so much." And you just like, cut straight to, and you move on fast, and it's like, cutthroat and real, and like, sexy and fun. And like, I don't know, I think him and I got to a place where like, we know each other really, really well. And we can write in a really honest way, and, and, and actually, have learned to carve out space for what each other does. So I know what he does, and he knows what I do, and we kind of just like, move around each other a little bit.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  Just A Little Walk On The Moon is a good example of a song that we wrote together in the Philippines, actually, in our hotel room. And I think I was in the bath, and he was like, in the living room, and I was like, singing it to him, and he was playing it on the guitar. And like, I just, I'm like, I would have never thought that I wanted to date another musician, but now that I'm like, married to one, I'm like, it's the best. Like, it, it just allows for music to kind of throw, like, braid its way through our lives in a really natural way. And I think him and Tavish Crowe, like I talked about, are two of my like, soulmate writers. And it's, it's such a delight to be married to one of them.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  So beautiful. How did you guys meet?

• 49:13Speaker 03

  We met, we were set up on a session.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Oh, no way.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, we were set up on a session, and, and it was, it was an interesting little meet-cute, actually. I thought he was like, a dance producer at first, but it turns out, no, he was, he was not. He was, I actually, yeah. It took me a second. We both had kind of a friendship brewing at the very beginning. We were...

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Okay, so you were friends first?

• 49:39Speaker 03

  We were friends for like, a year first.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Fuck, okay. I think I need to do that with my crush.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  But that's how I've always actually landed in relationships. Fun fact is, I will generally like, watch them from a friendship distance for a year, until I decide and realize that we might be in love.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  But it's like, it's like a nice vetting system, because you get to know them a bit more honestly when they're not presenting as a date, and they're just being your friend. You know, and I think that that's like, a really cool way to observe somebody.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  No, it's patience, which I don't have.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I mean, I have a lot of fear, so that's where my tactic comes from, as I'm, I'm scared to step into something until I know it's a good idea.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Are you scared, like, do you have like, rejection sensitivity? Or are you like, sensitive to rejection?

• 50:28Speaker 03

  Not that. I would very happily get in a relationship for a wild experience, knowing that it will be a fun time and a couple of good songs. But I think that that's also maturity of realizing that that burns out pretty fast. I think it's more that I, I'm careful who I let into my circle. And I, I want, I want to make sure that it's, it's good people, even if it's for a brief encounter.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Are you ready to do the tell me what's wrong?

• 50:53Speaker 03

  I'm excited.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  You'll get it.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  I can't wait.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  My boyfriend insisted on wearing shorts to my friend's wedding. He wouldn't budge either because of the heatwave. And he got word that some of the other men were doing it too. I'm so embarrassed and cannot get the image out of my head. Help. I don't know. I think, I think it's kind of sweet. But maybe I'm just like romanticizing it. But like, I think it's sweet to be embarrassed of your partner sometimes.

• 51:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Like, because if they're so themselves, am I wrong? Like.

• 51:22Speaker 03

  I like it.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  It's a funny.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  You don't know if I agree.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Really? I think it's sweet that he was so embarrassed and it's so dorky.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Well, I guess because then that means they care.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  No, my thing is just like, oh, so embarrassing. But like, I love him.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  If you land with that, if you circle back with so embarrassed, but I love you, great.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also, if other people are wearing shorts, then it's fine.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  If other people are wearing shorts, then whatever.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Then who cares?

• 51:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  I got into business with my close friend. Oh, yeah. And it's a disaster. He is unorganized, does not hit deadlines, and leaves the majority of the work up to me. However, he has great ideas and we build this together. I don't know how to proceed. I just wish I hadn't mixed business with friendship. Any advice?

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Ooh, that's tricky. I think accept the guy's not going to change and figure out what he's good at and give him more of those jobs. And if you need to bring in a third party because you feel overwhelmed by carrying the weight of the rest, then bring in a third so that it doesn't land all on you.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Was it hard for, oh, I guess no. I guess you and your partner initially met via work.

• 52:32Speaker 03

  We did.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  So it's much different.

• 52:35Speaker 03

  We did meet, but he also is a very hard worker. So it's, it's good, you know?

• 52:41Speaker 01

  But also, yeah, people, do you believe that people change?

• 52:45Speaker 03

  If they want to, but not if you want them to. I think people are very capable of change, but it has to come from them.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Now I'm realizing that I think people can.

• 52:54Speaker 03

  I think it's the whole point of life. I think that we're on a journey to change and grow. And hopefully, if we're doing it right, get better.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Right. I was thinking about another guy I work with while being intimate with my boyfriend of three years. I literally feel like the worst person ever. It only happened once before this, but what do I do? I'm so gross, like, I'd be sick if roles were reversed. Help.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  They were just thinking about them?

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  Oh, give yourself a break.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Right?

• 53:21Speaker 03

  You're a human being. You're thinking about a person.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  You're allowed to do that?

• 53:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  I feel like people are much harsher on themselves these days than they used to be.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  I mean, I would say I agree if that's how everyone's feeling. You're allowed to have a little fantasy here and there. No, no? Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  What do you think, Manny?

• 53:41Speaker 02

  I always like to say, well, how do I phrase this? I don't know. Anytime I'm in love with someone else, like, I have a huge crush. I just saw a movie last night. I was in love with the lead. Literally texted him, I'm in love with this person.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  What movie?

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Finding Emily.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  I'm in love with the lead.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Okay. I went home to visit my parents. I was the last child to leave the house. And since I've been here, they've low-key, they've been low-key slipping up, saying their lives are so great and that they feel so refreshed lately. It's so clear that they needed me the fuck out of there. My feelings are really hurt by this. I thought we all got along great. I think that's amazing.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  I mean, explain more. So.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  So they're, they were the last, they were the last child to leave the house. And now their parents are empty nesters and the parents are like loving their lives.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  And now this kid is feeling bad that their parents are enjoying their life. But I think that's the point of life.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  Well, I would say that it's pretty amazing that the parents are like having this new lease on life and you should be happy for them.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  I would say that it also hurts a lot more to see your parents upset that you've gone and not have a fulfilled life without you there.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Is that what happened for you? Were your parents, did they mourn your life, like, your leaving?

• 54:55Speaker 01

  All the time, my dad calls me like 10 times a day. I love him very much. But like, I think he misses.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  He needs to move on.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  I think he misses having, having me home.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Oh, that's very sweet, though.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  It's very sweet, but it's very sad. Like, I wish that he was like, this is the best thing ever. Like, you know, like, I would prefer my parents to be like, we are so happy that you're out of the house. Because I think that would make me feel good because I'd want to see them happy.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  You want to see them having a hobby, a new lease on life.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think my mom is happy. She's always like traveling, like doing whatever. But like, my dad is definitely like misses having me home.

• 55:30Speaker 03

  I think that's very sweet, though.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  I feel like, I mean, that should give you a little confidence boost.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  People are achieving so many things at such a young age. What am I doing wrong? Why did it become something negative to do the traditional way of life? You know, like school and job, etc.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  Oh. I don't know. I think that the feeling I feel there is just don't compare.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  I think social media.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  Keep your eye on the prize. There's, there's no wrong way at it. And it's very, yeah, social media does allow that. Even my, my, um, I think everyone is able to succumb to the comparison thing. Like, my mother makes jewelry and every once in a while she'd be like, I saw this other woman was wearing really funky hats. And I was like, the hats aren't how, first of all, why are we talking about another woman's hats? Like, just do your thing, I think. I think that's like the way to live a good life, to make good art. It's just kind of stick to the path that feels like yours. And don't worry about the outside noise of what other people are doing.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Did you ever find yourself comparing yourself to other acts when you first came out to the scene?

• 56:36Speaker 03

  I felt it was really important to define what it was that I was contributing. So I thought a lot about like, who am I? What am I doing? What does that mean in terms of what clothes I wear and how I present myself? And I think I thought about it too hard where I was just sort of more open and sponging to anybody else who might have an idea. So I think when I was 26 and first came to Los Angeles and everyone was like, we think it's like this in the market. And I'm like, okay, well, if you've got an idea, because I don't yet. But once I started to realize that no one was going to have a better idea of what works for me rather than me, I kind of took the reins back on that. But I wasn't looking like, oh, that girl's doing this and I should copy her. I was very actually uninterested in doing anything that felt like copycatting to me.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  That felt like if I, if I didn't know what to do, I knew I didn't want to do that.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And what made, and what made you from after Call Me Maybe want to go back to your theater roots?

• 57:34Speaker 03

  I, I, it sounds like I was smart and had a strategy. It wasn't like that. I just got a phone call and I said yes. Like, it was just like, yes, that sounds like relief right now. Yes, that sounds like the right choice. And sometimes I feel like the best decisions that I've made have been ones where I don't overthink it too much and I just sort of try it on and feel it and jump, you know? And I, I remember getting, I got the offer when I was on a plane and I thought, I want to do this. And I feel really happy that I took that left turn. It's like actually brought so much, you know, even with 10 Things now. I'm like, I don't think 10 Things would have happened had I not said yes to Cinderella back then, you know?

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so excited to see 10 Things. That's going to be amazing.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  It's wild.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, you, like, you and Lena Dunham together just feels like pure magic.

• 58:22Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Did you watch Girls?

• 58:23Speaker 03

  Are you kidding me? I like rewatched it recently after her book came out because I was like kind of watching in tandem with reading. And God, just like brilliant.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  That book is really, really incredible.

• 58:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, she's an incredible woman. It's, yeah.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  I think, I think it is my, I think it's time that I, I rewatched Girls again. I rewatched it when I was like 23, fresh out of college, and I think I need to watch it again with new eyes.

• 58:45Speaker 03

  So, so, so good.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  So good.

• 58:48Speaker 03

  So good.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  My boyfriend uses Shazam in public constantly and I've gotten the ick. I use Shazam every day. I used Shazam yesterday. I know this is silly, but it's like every time we're at the mall and it's playing the most generic music ever, he pulls out his phone, standing in the middle of everyone walking around him, holding it to the sky. Is this valid? No.

• 59:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think if you're getting the ick over something like that, there's deeper issues going on.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Thousand percent.

• 59:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  I was watching Pen 15 yesterday and there was like a needle drop at the end and I Shazamed it. And it's my favorite thing in the world to Shazam a song that I love and be like, oh, this is my new favorite song.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  That's something, like, we were talking about festivals earlier, but that's a beautiful way to discover music. I think, yeah.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 59:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Also, like, it's, he's, that is, that is a strange, that's one of the strangest icks I've ever heard.

• 59:32Speaker 03

  It's a really strange one.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Sorry to call you out, whoever you are.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  Before we end.

• 59:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  It is Manny's birthday.

• 59:40Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness. Happy birthday, girl. Hey.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  And I was just wondering, we have a cupcake. If you could sing happy birthday to her.

• 59:48Speaker 03

  Only if we all do it together.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  But this would, you're her favorite artist and this would be her dream come true. Louise, do you have the cupcake?

• 59:56Speaker 03

  Are we starting? Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  Happy birthday, dear Manny. Happy birthday to you. Make a wish.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Yay.

• 1:00:21Speaker 03

  Happy birthday.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  This is the best thing, this is like the best birthday ever, actually.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  This is one of the best moments of my life.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Oh, Manny.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  I love you.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  I love you too.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  I love you. Oh.

• 1:00:40Speaker 03

  Amazing, amazing.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  What are your birthday plans tonight?

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  Um, I'm getting a massage and then I'm just hanging out with my family and getting Thai food.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Well, Carly Rae, what did we learn today?

• 1:00:51Speaker 03

  We learned that Shazamming is controversial.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Apparently so.

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  Controversial. I said that. Why is that a hard word? Controversial.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  My brain is mush at this point.

• 1:01:00Speaker 03

  What else did we learn? We learned it's Manny's birthday.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  We learned that it's Manny's birthday. And we learned that your new album, Day and Night, is out now.

• 1:01:11Speaker 03

  It's out now.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  It's out now. And it is your eighth studio album.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  We're counting the B-sides.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  We're counting the B-sides.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  Five pussies.