Session 130: Lisa Barlow

You're just... baby gorgeous... Thank you Poppi for sponsoring this episode! https://drinkpoppi.com/ Thank you to Booking.com for sponsoring today’s episode! Find exactly what you’re Booking for at https://www.booking.com Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/THERAPUSS⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $25 discount Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Lisa! https://www.instagram.com/lisabarlow14/?hl=en Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:40Speaker 01

  You're just, baby gorgeous. Your energy is magic, magic. Well, Manny is back for another intro because we got another housewife on Therapise. Lisa Barlow's the queen. Manny and I have... Lisa Barlow for Manny and I is... Talk about Lisa Barlow is important to God. Lisa Barlow is God for us.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Lisa Barlow is God. I think she is one of the most important people in my life to me.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  She inspires me, she motivates me.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  She really motivates me.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  And I... You know, some people stray from certain housewives when they do something that they don't like. And all I have to say is you need to watch episode one of the latest season where Lisa Barlow is not in it because she was doing big and important things.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  And she was mentioned, like, how many times? Over 60 times in the episode, was it? Because that's how important she is to the show.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, and it felt like a big loss, that episode. There was something missing.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  There is no Salt Lake without Lisa Barlow.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  I just think what I love about her is that she is so unapologetically herself.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  She could have six different housewives looking her dead in the eye saying, "You are wrong", and she will look right back at you and say, "I'm right".

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Nope, she believes everything she feels and says with such conviction. And that's what's inspiring about her, is that she's like, "This is me, this is my truth, this is how I feel, take it or leave it." I don't care.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  And she's so funny.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  I know.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  She is so-

• 2:13Speaker 02

  And an amazing singer.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  And an amazing singer.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  And she's gotten so much better.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  She's gotten so much better. We talk about this episode that she's done vocal lessons. We talk about her vocal warmups. Her debut single, Baby Gorgeous, is out now. Oh, also, I don't know if you guys saw on my Instagram, but I'm doing a giveaway with Headcount because voting is one of the most important rights we have in this country. So just click the link in my bio for a chance to win a FaceTime from me, like a little fun Therapist session from me and a PR package from Cochess. Once again, voting is vital and extremely important, and Headcount is an organization that makes sure that we all have access to that. Also in the giveaway package is the Puss Casino Cochess merch that we wore in Vegas that I don't think we're ever gonna sell.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  So you get to take action and have the chance to win fun things. And also be reminded that voting is extremely important. Thank you, Headcount, again, for working with me and getting the word out of how important it is to vote and making sure everybody can. And tonight on Therapist, we have Lisa Barlow.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Hi, pussies. Welcome back to Therapist. Tonight, we have on the queen of Salt Lake and New York, Baby Gorgeous, Lisa Barlow.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, I love that we're together.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I love that we're together.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  We're like ma- made to be together. We're like Kiss, Met, we're all the things.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  I miss you.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  I miss you, too.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  How's life been? Tell me everything about this new single.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, do you love Baby Gorgeous?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Gorgeous.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  Baby Gorgeous. Your energy is magic, magic.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you have a-

• 3:57Speaker 03

  I haven't warmed up my voice yet, but I could do better. I promise.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  No, you, you sound amazing. What was it like recording?

• 4:03Speaker 03

  You know, it was, okay, so this is so crazy. You're gonna see this on season seven. But my first time in the studio ever recording anything musically related was on camera. So you're gonna watch the whole thing, but it was like a little like, oh my gosh, we're doing this and there's cameras here. I can't really like mess up, you know, it was wild.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Was Meredith like, was Meredith supportive of your musical journey?

• 4:29Speaker 03

  Meredith's always supportive. I think, and like I'm supportive of her musical stylings by Meredith Marks too. We have some funny moments. This season that you're gonna like, love. Let me just put this out there. Hypocrisy and bullshit. Bullshit. You're gonna like want that in your head all the time through season seven. Because it becomes a thing.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  What was season seven? What was filming season seven like?

• 4:52Speaker 03

  My favorite season I've ever filmed, ever. I actually enjoyed the whole entire thing. I was sad when it ended because I loved it and um, I loved it. It was like my favorite season.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  What did you love about it?

• 5:06Speaker 03

  Uh, our production crew were amazing.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Well, I'm so happy because last time we spoke after season six, you were like.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  You were like, I can't.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Maybe I'm done.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  No, I mean, that's how I felt after season six. It was like, yeah, no. But after season six, I kind of was like, I have a really nice life and why do I jack it up once a year? And so, you know, like, there's parts of me that loves it because it likes, makes you like, see yourself in a different way. You push yourself, you create new boundaries, new guardrails. So like, that's what I've liked about doing the show, but then you watch the edits and you're like, who the fuck is that on TV? You know what I mean? And so this season, I felt like I was like a hundred percent free in me. Like I felt like a total satch girl, like living my best life, having the best time.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  And I felt like I got to be free this year and. There's so much drama, there's so much of like what people love from Salt Lake, but in such a different way, and it's so good.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  What's different about the drama this season than the other seasons?

• 6:12Speaker 03

  Listen, they're all still crazy.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Like, who are you on good terms with right now?

• 6:16Speaker 03

  Um, you know, it ebbs and flows. I can, I can mitigate any situation and any dynamic. I think me and Meredith are like gonna be really solid forever and ever and ever. I mean, it would take like so much.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Like chainsaws and like crazy stuff to split us up. I love my dynamic with Meredith, but I can kind of like move through the group.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  How is your relationship with Angie?

• 6:43Speaker 03

  Um, it's like the same.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  So not good?

• 6:48Speaker 03

  You know, like, you'll have to see the journey of it, but it's like the same. Yeah.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  There's so many things I want to ask you about.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Ask me everything.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Can we just like, okay, let's take it all the way back to season one.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  When they were casting for the show, who were you closest with?

• 7:09Speaker 03

  You know, um, I helped bring the show to Salt Lake.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  So I had already had a reality show pilot filmed on me, and I like loved the experience. We had our different restaurant. I think they were like, oh, she's like a young Lisa Vanderpump, and we're gonna do this with her. And because of like my relationship with different, um, like networks for Sundance, I think people, and I don't just do Sundance, I do like so many other things too. But, um, I think they were like, oh, there's like a TV show, we have to film her and do this. So I did the whole pilot. Henry was so little that we were up in Park City filming and I could hear him upstairs with our nanny crying for me. And I finished the pilot and then I was like, I'm giving it to God. Like if it works out, it's meant to be. If not, it's not. And the timing for sure wasn't right.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  So like, I always kind of knew something was gonna happen in that realm. And John and I were taking a walk by the golf course behind our house, and I'm like, I'm gonna have a TV show this year. And he's like, okay, you're gonna have a TV show this year and I'm like, yeah, I am. And then literally the stars align and three people called me with the same person's number. Randomly, they didn't know each other and they're like, you have to talk to Michaeline. And I'm like, this is so crazy. I keep being told I need to talk to Michaeline. I was in LA. I was actually here for like, um, the AFI Awards. And, um, like, she's like, can you meet me before? And I'm like, sure, but I gotta be ready to go in a glam. So I got like an hour and a half. And we met and she's like, we're doing this. And I sent her like hundreds of names and like just go down the rabbit hole with each one of them.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  But like I helped kind of assemble the cast too.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Everybody's connected in some way or another through one of my friends or a friend and stuff. So. In the beginning, it was Meredith, like Meredith.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  That was your.

• 8:56Speaker 03

  That was my girl. So she moved to Park City from Chicago. Her gay bestie. Was best friends with my gay bestie and now they're married. And they're like, yeah, they got married.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Happy Pride.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  Happy Pride. And, um, so we knew they had great taste when they tried to like pair us together. We're like, oh, it's fate. We're meant to be together. So then me and Meredith were like, okay, we're doing this. And then she. Does not like to be tied down. Like Meredith does not like one zip code. It's just not, she's a Sagittarius too. So we like to fly. Like it's, I, if I didn't have a Cap Moon sign, like I would be out of Salt Lake.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'd be like a scalawag or what, how do you say that scalawag or? You know, like that word for people that just like go all over the place. Yeah, like a nomad. High school, like history, they're like, there's scalawags and so like she doesn't like to be tied down. So she was. You know, living, I, I think she was back in Chicago, still had a place in. Park City. So I'm like, you should do this with me. Let's do this. And it just kind of worked out. So it was like really good.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  I mean, I feel like you guys are my family.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Yes, we are.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Every, I, I think you are like, well, you're my mother.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  For sure related.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you're, you were related, but like.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  I gave birth to you.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  You, you know, you did, but.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  Later time in life.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  The show really kicked off when Jen was arrested.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was wild.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  What like?

• 10:24Speaker 03

  Wild.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Did you understand how?

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Big of a deal it was in that moment when the FBI surrounded the Sprinter van.

• 10:32Speaker 03

  No, you forget cameras are around. You for- I always forgot like since season one, like I forget I'm miked. That's why I had a hot mic moment like, um, but you forget all of that stuff. But I remember sitting in the van and I was like, she got up, her energy was really off. And then when she got that phone call and was like, I have to leave. We're like, okay, what's going on? Like, nobody would have ever in a million years felt like Homeland Security, the FBI, NYPD was gonna show up. And she had told me this crazy story about this guy that got locked away on like, I mean, like Alcatraz type of situation, like he was locked away, he was never gonna see her again. And he, and I was like, oh my gosh, she got out of jail and he's coming to kill Jen. Like, that's the first thing that went through my head.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  It's like this guy that she helped lock up is free and her life is in danger. I thought it was to protect her.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Do you, would you be open to filming with her again, or is everyone like, no, no?

• 11:32Speaker 03

  I think that Jen has a lot of charisma and she's really funny. And when you get around a great day, she's like the most fun person ever. We used to have long chats at night where like every, I got massages like every Sunday and Wednesday. So Jen would call me through all my massages and like I'd put her on speakerphone and we'd laugh with her. Like my massage therapist loves her and is like, she's crazy, but she's so funny. So she has this charisma about her and it's like really natural innate, she's fun. But I don't know if it's a good thing for her or any of us.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. But no, I want her to be happy. I want her to be thriving. I want her to be like, you know, with her children and her husband and her mother and everybody else. Like, I think that's important and I think she's, you know, if she's really sorry she did restitution and she's paying for her mistakes, so.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  She's out, right?

• 12:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's out. She's a free woman.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Have you seen her since?

• 12:29Speaker 03

  No, not at all.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Has anyone in Salt Lake seen her?

• 12:34Speaker 03

  No, I think she talks to Meredith every now and then. Yeah, I think they'll like she'll call Meredith randomly or Meredith will check in with her. But I don't think anyone has like a deep friendship with her.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Okay, you mentioned the hot mic moment.

• 12:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Did you know in that moment you were like, oh, fuck?

• 12:54Speaker 03

  No, oh, my gosh, no. So I left the table because my feelings were so hurt and I was like, you can see I'm like sitting next to Meredith and I'm like rolling my eyes. But I didn't like, you know, in my interview, they asked me, did you make up all that stuff about Meredith or is it true? No, Jen almost beat me up on the van on the way down there. And Jen was saying the craziest things about Meredith. She's like, your fucking best friend who does this, this and this. And then said all the same things at the table while we were eating dinner and then Meredith and Jen were in a full on fight. At dinner, so I didn't like come up with these things. I was so upset with Meredith that I was like, you're not my fucking friend. You can't even stand up for me.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Like, I'm always alone, but I always defend you. And so I, and like, I almost got beat up for her and I don't think Meredith understood the magnitude.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  For me, I just left that table. I took my mic off. I'm really good at that. I know what to do. So I took my mic off and they said they boomed my door. But I was walking around like a crazy person. So the next day is when I figured out like I ranted.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  And so that's when you realized like.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And then I was like, what else did I say? And then I didn't think about it. And then I remember feeling really, really hurt by her. Then I went down to the room and like Meredith and I got into it and I'm like, you're the fucking liar. Like, cause I'm like, I didn't say anything about your dad. Because that was coming from two other girls.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  But I thought she realized, I thought she only heard the hot mic when the episode aired.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Oh, that's the only time any of us heard it.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  And what was that like when that came out? Were you like, oh, my God?

• 14:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was the night, two nights before the reunion.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  I was sobbing. I couldn't even talk to Meredith. I called her and I said, go watch episode 18. You're gonna hate me. And I just hung up.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  And she goes, let me go watch. And I'm like, you're gonna hate me. And then she, I didn't hear from her.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  How did you guys make up?

• 14:48Speaker 03

  We had to have, two years ago, the hardest hitting conversation. I literally sat in a Walmart parking lot on the phone with her um for like an hour and a half and we just had the hardest hitting conversation. And then there were subsequent hard hitting conversations where we just talked through everything and gave context to our feelings, the situation. Um, you know, when you're in that situation too, like her feelings were obviously her. I think if it came from anyone else, it wouldn't have bothered her as much. You'd been like, I just, you're whatever.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  Because it was me, it was like worse. But if you listen to the way things were being said, like it makes sense. Like, you know, her and Jen were going at it at the dinner table. And if you really hear what Jen was saying in the van at the dinner table at my Vita Tequila food court party, it's all the stuff I said in my hot mic moment. It's just I kept hearing it and shutting it down, hearing it and shutting it down. And then I just was so hurt. I was like, well, maybe this is true and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, just, you know, lost my mind.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  I remember it, so.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  I mean, it made for great television. And I'm happy that you and Meredith are now.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  I'm human. Oh, yeah. And I'm human. I ran like that about John Barlow on the daily. Like, I'll be walking to my room like, oh, I fucking know.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  You're also from New York. People forget.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. We verbalize all of our emotions and feelings. Like, when I moved to Utah to go to school, my mom's like, you have to leave here immediately. No one thinks you're pretty. They all think you're ugly. Because nobody did what they do in New York, where you walk down the streets and they're like, hey, girl, hey. My mom's like, no one even cares about you here. You need to leave immediately. And like, I think when you come from a culture where, it is, it's my DNA, like all of New England, the East Coast is very different than the West Coast. Where people just say exactly what they mean. You get over it, you move on. Like, I would say the bad truth is better than a good lie. And.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, my hot mic moment was not any, there's no truth to it, but like my feelings were raw. I was hurt. And um, I think, you know, that's just the way I grew up. You say things, you move on. You say things, you move on. And I think it's way better to just like get it out than to like sit with it and then just give people bad vibes.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, nobody wants that. You can feel that.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  No bad energy.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  How is Brittany been this season?

• 17:12Speaker 03

  She's like butterflies and ladybugs. Yeah, I love, I mean, she's chasing rainbows in her head. Like, she's somewhere over the rainbow.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  So she's not here?

• 17:24Speaker 03

  She's here. She's here. I can't, I wanna like, I wanna say it physically, mentally, she's in a different place. You know, and I think that like, um, people are gonna have to tune in to watch what happens with Brittany. But like, she's, you know, part of me, like, I was like rooting for Brittany. And I think last year with the whole plane incident, with them making up this ridiculous story about what happened on the plane, it really made me see people very differently. Cause I could never just both ways lie about somebody.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  What happened on the plane?

• 18:02Speaker 03

  Nothing. Meredith vented to me. Meredith sat by me the entire flight. So Heather was across the aisle. We had Whitney, Mary here, Brittany in front of us, and then...

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Wait, so, wait, paint it, paint it for me.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Okay. So here's me and Meredith on the, looking, coming down the aisle. If I were like, you know, the flight host, I would be to the left. Heather was across the aisle from me. But if you're looking forward, like, out of the plane, it's like me and Meredith, Heather here, Whitney, Mary, Brittany, stranger, Angie up front, production right behind me.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  And so what happened?

• 18:37Speaker 03

  Meredith was really upset because Brittany on Below Deck came into our cabin and kept being like gassing Meredith up and being like, Meredith did look hot in her bikini. So she's like, you look so hot in your bikini. Oh my God, I'm in love, like, you just look so good. I just love you so much. So Meredith is like, just stop messing with me. She's like, basically like, stop fucking with me and we're fine. And then when Brittany came out at dinner saying like, oh, your husband was in an Uber and I think he's cheating on you, but I'm just trying to be a good girl's girl. Meredith was like, we're done. And so I was in a villa with Meredith before we flew out. And she woke me up early the next morning. She's like, we've gotta fly out. We gotta get ready to go. And she's like, I'm still very upset about last night. And I'm like, I get it. I understand.

• 19:22Speaker 03

  And how you feel that way. And then we had to take this crazy like nineteen sixties prop plane to another island to catch like a real flight to New York and on the flight, because you know, it's a far away island. It's not like an easy to get to. If you have a super yacht, if you're Jeff Bezos, it's perfect.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Or Michael Jordan, it's a great island to go to. But like for us, it was a little rough to get to.

• 19:47Speaker 03

  And so she just vented to me the whole time. She's like, she's like, um, I got set up. I'm so upset. Um, she was emotional. She was crying. Yeah, she was just only talking to me. Um, Brittany had headphones on and Gina behind us couldn't hear. So I got up during one part of the flight and said, hey Gina, Meredith's really upset. I think you should call our showrunner and let her know. Meredith's super upset, like, I feel horrible for her and I think somebody needs to talk to her when we get back to Salt Lake. And she's like, okay. And I'm like, can you hear her? And she's like, not at all. So not even a little bit, but the only person Meredith talked to is me.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  What about the shaking of the seat and the wine spilling?

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Didn't happen.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Didn't happen?

• 20:29Speaker 03

  No, not, not while I was awake.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Not at all. Not that I saw, not that I experienced. I don't see Meredith doing that.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Could you see it possibly happening while you were asleep?

• 20:41Speaker 03

  No, I just don't, Meredith's not that type.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Meredith is just, she doesn't even really, it takes a lot to get her to yell. So like, the, you know, she said some mean things about Brittany to me, you know, just some other stuff she felt. Yeah.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  And so, but like, it was to me and it's not like she was screaming at, like you'd have to try to listen to hear it.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Got it, got it. Okay. And so the plane was, well, the plane was like the crux of that season.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And so like the fact that they all were like, okay, now we're going to use this as a chance to like fake rally around Brittany. Use this as an excuse to like, treat me and Meredith badly. That was the problem last year. And that's like, it made me just totally shift my energy, how I felt about how they handle situations, how they treat me. Cause I mean, like I was getting it pretty bad the first. Half the season, they were trying to convince convince Meredith that I'm this horrible human being and this bad friend. And she shouldn't be friends with me. And it's just like the, you know, like insight divide kind of tactics. And so it just kind of got old. And so this season I went into it with like, okay, we have zero fucks now.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Right, like you're, do you feel like you are, you've become immune to? Criticism from outside world because you're like.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  Oh, beyond, beyond immune.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. And when other people get upset when they're in a situation where they have to just like answer simple questions. I'm like, you have no idea what I've gone through. Like this is nothing, but I am so immune. I mean, the public can be really mean too. So you just got like. You know, like I've always had thick skin and I have like an innate sense of self. So. You know, last season, some things got to me for the first time ever. Like I didn't love it. I had a hard time.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  How did you bring yourself back to being like, I can do this. This is my job. This is who I am. I'm here for a reason.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  I woke up and I was like, I'm just baby gorgeous.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  You are just baby gorgeous.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Magic. But no, it kind of helped me to like, remember like, it's so cliche, but just like remember who I am like. You know, and then I get in the van and I tell the girls, I'm like, nobody is like really real here. Like I. Was like, I don't really know that much about you guys. Like I like depth and dimension in my relationships. Like. I want more. I give more. I'll give as much as you guys want me to give as long as like. You're like hearing it, you're receiving it and like we're all in this together, but like I, all my relationships are deep. I don't have shallow relationships. I'm. Friends with all my friends from kindergarten. I'm friends, best friends with all my friends from college. Like. When Baby Gorgeous came out, like my kindergarten friends were messaging me. My sixth grade bestie was messaging me like.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  All my mom's friends, you know? And so I'm like, I'm used to that. It's like. So different for me to be around like such shallow.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Relationships, so I wanted more and I feel like I'm getting, I feel like I'm getting more of that.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  How was your relationship with Heather? Because at the beginning of season six, it was great.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Complicated.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  And then at the end of season six, it was not so great.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  She complicated it. I like was all in and she has, you'll see coming up soon on Ultimate Girls Trip. And on Housewives, like, I'm a very forgiving person and when I forgive, I move on and I don't go backwards.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  She made it hard for me to want to do that.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Why?

• 24:05Speaker 03

  You'll see, very soon.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so excited!

• 24:09Speaker 03

  It was amazing.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Who's on it? You, Heather?

• 24:11Speaker 03

  No, me, Kyle Richards, Gisele, Portia, Teresa, Vicky, I'm missing somebody, Luann.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Did Alicia not do it from Rhode Island?

• 24:22Speaker 03

  No, but you know what, um, we, you're gonna see, like, we get to meet all the Rhode Island girls along the way.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's what I'm thinking of, because we just spoke to Alicia.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's really cool. They came out of the gate, like, when I met them for the first time, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be epic to watch them. Because they have no filters.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Have you, have you been watching?

• 24:43Speaker 03

  Um, parts of it. I wish I could watch more. My schedule's been nuts, but I see a lot on social, um, you know. I think like just with how crazy my schedule's been to sit down and watch a full episode has been hard, but they're amazing.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  They're amazing. It's very good.

• 24:58Speaker 03

  I think they're so great. I think it reminds me of home. Like, it's how I'm used to like interacting with people. You say what you mean, you get over it. There's so much history, it cuts a little deeper, but then forgiveness is bigger. Because you've had such deep roots with these people, you've known them your whole life. And I think that, that, like, the show creates one bond, but when you have like long-term relationships with people and you start doing something like this, you have a different kind of bond that doesn't ever go away. It probably. There's times where they'll probably think they're like never gonna make up, but they all will.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  You can tell.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Was there a moment for you where you're like, I am never making up with this person ever?

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh my gosh, every season.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  And then somehow you do.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I don't like to sit in negativity either. I just think it's so harmful for our bodies, but I do have guardrails. I do have like, you know, walls that I've put up with certain people where like I can be fine with them, but we'll never be friends.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Not like the way we used to be.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's, there's a couple of them that I'm like, you will never know me. You'll know surface me, you'll never know me.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Whitney.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  You know, there was a time when I think Whitney was going through some really hard stuff and I'm glad that like we could have a good friendship there, but I mean, I just, I just require different things than I did five, six, seven years ago.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Thank you SeatGeek for sponsoring tonight's episode. You guys, it's the World Cup. It's the World Cup and the World Cup is taking place in America. And the best place to get tickets for the World Cup is on SeatGeek. My friend just went to England versus Panama and said he had the best time of his life and it made me want to go to a World Cup game so badly. Brett went to one the other week, like Julia went to one. Everyone is going to the World Cup. It looks so much fun. What I learned from basketball is that sports games are so fun and the best place to get tickets for these sports games are on SeatGeek. You can also use my code therapist for 10% off your order.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  If you click the link in the description and download the app, it automatically applies the code. So you can have 10% off your order. SeatGeek is the best place to get tickets for any event, whether it be sporting, whether it be music. Gracie Abrams is going on tour. Ariana Grande is on tour. Ryan Beatty just announced his tour. There are so many incredible people on tour. The reason SeatGeek is the best is because it rates tickets on a scale from one to 10, one being not the best, 10 being the best. So you can see if you are getting a good deal. The World Cup is like a once in a lifetime opportunity and if you were to get tickets for it, you should absolutely go to SeatGeek to get them. Because it will make the process so much easier. Once again, you can use code therapist for 10% off your order. Thank you again, SeatGeek for sponsoring tonight's episode.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Poppy, poppy, poppy, poppy, poppy poo. Poppy is the best soda for you. Poppy is my favorite soda in the entire world. I always say this, but if you watch my early, early, early content, like 2023, I was singing, making jingles for Poppy, hoping they would notice me. And now they are sponsoring this season of Therapists. One of my favorite flavors is strawberry lemon. It is, oh my God, I'm gonna drink it right now. I'm honestly so thirsty. It is five grams of sugar. It's a better for you soda.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Oh my, it's just, it's so good. Sorry, I'm gonna have some more. It's summer. You need a refreshing better for you soda this summer, and that is Poppy. I just, I remember the days, I always talk about this, when I used to have to literally search far and wide for Poppy, and now they are in every bodega, every store. It is so incredible, and they are always having new, exciting flavors come out. Strawberry lemon is a classic, so it is a very good entry point into Poppy. My personal favorites are strawberry lemon, cherry limeade. Cherry limeade's my all time favorite, so I just, Poppy.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  And it's a better for you soda with only five grams of sugar. Poppy, soda's back, but so much better. Thank you, Poppy, for sponsoring this episode.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  I support all their businesses.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  And so Meredith's caviar.

• 29:13Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh, I love her caviar.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  And then what?

• 29:16Speaker 03

  I love her caviar, and Meredith makes beautiful jewelry.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Right, yes, yes, yes.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Oh, you have a great stack going.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  I always have something Meredith Marks on. One of these is hers. And I thought this was hers, no, it's not. But normally I have it all the way up my arm, yeah. I love a stack.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  How's John Barlow?

• 29:35Speaker 03

  John Barlow is amazing.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Is he, you know, he's my favorite house husband.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh, and you're his favorite ever, ever, ever.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  I die for him.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  He loves you too.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  I love him.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  He's doing amazing. I think, you know, John never really gives a lot on the show because he's always been like, this is your thing, and he'll be there to like, he brings like humor to the show, and he's really witty and dry humor, but this season, I think like, he Opens up a lot more.

• 30:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think you'll see like a continuation of that and like where he was coming from in like a way that was shocking to me. Like literally like it's all over my face.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  We'll talk later.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, like I was like, oh my gosh, we need to talk later.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  I'm gonna take a week off. I'm taking a week off, maybe a month and we're gonna have a conversation. But it was like really good for both of us, I think. We've been married and together for a very long time.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  And has he, so you grew up Jewish?

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm Jewish by heritage, um, kind of my dad was agnostic. And my mom was just always searching for faith. Like I think that was a big thing. So when the Mormon missionaries knocked on our door, she's literally was like, I've been praying for you. We're all like two cute boys in suits, what?

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Wild and it took my dad a long time to convert, like he was not like, it wasn't his thing. I don't think it was something he. He didn't miss it. He never had it. He didn't, um, you know, his mom died when he was seven and a half and I think that. You know, he kind of like found a way to like, you know, my grandfather is amazing and he, my dad had amazing family members that stepped in when his mom died. But he didn't have like, somebody that was like, we love God and like, let's focus on faith and like structured religion. And my mom didn't really either, but like wanted it.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  And so that's when you converted to Mormonism?

• 31:36Speaker 03

  That's when we converted to Mormonism.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  And then how do you juxtapose being Mormon and also doing things that are inherently not Mormon?

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Okay, like non orthodox. Seth Marx is the one that came up with Mormon two point O. And, um, but I always say I'm non orthodox. So I've never had, um.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  Like, I just live my life and I think that's what God wants, like, from a religious standpoint. Like, I love God, I give everything to God. Like, I, I, I have prayers answered every single day. I like believe, I'm like a true believer in God. And I think that for me, um, I just don't think God judges me. I think, you know, church is an open door, everyone's welcome. I've never put, I didn't grow up in Utah either, but I've never put religious pressure on myself. It's more like my, I put pressure on myself to be, to show up in a good way. I, like, God, like, I just wanna be myself. And I think, um, all faiths evolve, like, the Mormon church,

• 32:40Speaker 03

  you know, it's like the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Mormons is a nickname, but the name of the church is like, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons love Jews, by the way. Mormons, I think, are very Jewish, with the exception of, like, accepting Christ as, like, the Savior instead of a rebel rabbi. So, like, that's, I mean, that's a big deal.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Very big deal. But, um, but Mormons, like, are, like, love Jews. So I think for me, I'm like, I'm double blessed.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are double blessed.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  I'm double blessed. Um, but I think, you know, it's not hard for me, I just wanna be myself. And even with Jack going on a mission, we did our best raising Jack. Jack has to make his own decisions. The mission, we never talked to him about it. That was a hundred percent his decision. He kept it so private. And we just had, like, a really, like, great mom-son talk three days ago, where he's like, "Mom, you were done raising me a long time ago. I make decisions based on my beliefs, not yours. I make decisions based on who I am, not based on who you are." And I was like, "I love this so much." Like, you don't even understand, I love hearing this from you. It makes me feel resolved as a mother, like that,

• 33:55Speaker 03

  you, like, feel so confident in your ability to make decisions for yourself and your, like, you know, like, how you're choosing to live your life. Like, that makes me so happy, you know?

• 34:05Speaker 01

  How's, how's his life post-mission?

• 34:07Speaker 03

  Amazing. Oh, you're gonna be seeing a lot of Jack soon.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  I'm so excited.

• 34:11Speaker 03

  His own project without me and John, and it's so good. And um he's happy, he's bilingual, like fluently, completely fluent. He works really, really hard. He works, he moonlights at our lounge. Works his brand Fresh Wolf. He's shredded. He's so cute.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  How is the lounge?

• 34:29Speaker 03

  The ba- the lounge is amazing. We need to do your birthday party there.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  I know, that's what I'm saying. I wanna fly everyone out to Utah and I wanna do my birthday party. At the Beeta Tequila Lounge.

• 34:38Speaker 03

  We're making this happen.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  And it'll be the best night of my life.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  The be- the best night of our life. I don't know if you can top Europe. Your Europe trip looked pretty amazing.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  It looked so funny. I had so much FOMO. I wanted to be running down the streets of Monaco with you.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  We were running down the streets, clubs every night.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  I know, I felt it with you. You were at, uh, what's it called? Oh my gosh, what club did you go to?

• 34:59Speaker 01

  We went to Lily's and then we went to some other first name club. Like Poppies or some.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Yes, I know, and it's like the best one. I know exactly where it is. I saw you guys running through the streets and I literally was like, I need to be there.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Oh, it would have been perfect with you there.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Fun. Oh my gosh, it looks so fun.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  I'm going to Paris for the first time this Sunday. I've never been to Paris.

• 35:20Speaker 03

  Oh, you're gonna thrive in Paris.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  I'm so excited.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  I'm sure you're gonna thrive. What are you doing in Paris?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  I'm going to the Dior show.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, amazing.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  You're amazing.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  You're amazing.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  You know you're my favorite Housewives of all, of all time.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  My gosh, thank you. You know what's funny is like, um, that's such a nice, sweet thing to say and I love you so much for that. I forget I'm even on Housewives a lot of times.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  Wait, what do you mean?

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Like, is that crazy?

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Oh, cuz you're just like, I'm her?

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, you know, oh my gosh, speaking of her, have you heard that country song, Be Her?

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, by Ella Langley?

• 35:55Speaker 03

  Yes, are you obsessed with it?

• 35:56Speaker 01

  Can you sing it for me?

• 35:57Speaker 03

  She drinks wine by the glass. I gotta take a, I gotta take a sip real quick.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  I love this song. We should turn it on and sing it.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  Not by the bottle. I just got nervous and I never get nervous.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  No, no, no, don't be nervous. Here, I'll turn around.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  She drinks wine by the glass, not by the bottle. She ain't stuck in the past, ain't worried about tomorrow. You know who she's singing that about? I'm convinced it's herself.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Oh, what do you mean?

• 36:28Speaker 03

  I think that song is about her. When she's like, "I just wanna be her so bad, it hurts so bad." To me, when Ella sings that song, it's really about herself.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  And she's like...

• 36:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, it's like who she really is.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that, so introspective.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like when I listen to it, it reminds me of my mother, too. Like, I called my mom and I'm like, "This song is about you." When I hear this song, I think of you. Because she's so authentically herself and like, if she were on the show, people would be obsessed with her. She's so cool.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Your mom?

• 36:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, she'll never do it. She wouldn't even let me stand next to her in public, but like...

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Wait, why won't she do the show?

• 37:03Speaker 03

  She, um, she just loves her privacy.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  But she is like 100% her. But when I heard Ella Langley singing that, I was like, "She's singing this about herself."

• 37:14Speaker 01

  How, in what?

• 37:16Speaker 03

  It's like the way she sees herself to me.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  Like, when she sings that, I'm like, I feel it so strongly. I wanna ask her someday, but like, I'm like, she has to be singing that about herself, the way she really sees herself.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  What else are you listening to right now? Besides Baby Gorgeous?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Um, you know what's so funny? We went to the AMAs and I was like, "My nieces love Cats Eye." And they are so hot and their outfits are the cutest thing ever. But like, I kind of like, I'm like, "I never thought I would be into Cats Eye." I like, love them. I like Love Country right now.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Love Country?

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like, love country music right now. And like, I love the way Ella Langley's doing it, too, because it's like a cross-pop over-y kind of thing. But that song, "I Screamed Singing in the Car," and I like, love it so much.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  My favorite is "Choose in Texas."

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  She's from Texas, I can tell by the way. She's just stepping down the road.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  That's like such a good one, too. But all of her songs are so good. I haven't warmed up my voice where I would full-on sing for you. I've been in vocal lessons for two years.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  What?

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Over two years. Yes, yes. And I do this whole warm-up thing, you know? If you blow bubbles in your drink, you can sing better. If you just warm up like this.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  Like sing your favorite song with bubbles in your glass. It'll open up your throat so much, I'm not kidding you, and then you'll be able to, when you start singing, you're gonna sound so good. It like stretches the muscles in the back of your throat, it's so good.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  She's from, oh wow, it's clearer.

• 38:45Speaker 03

  Yes. If you do that for like, sing the song three times through and blow bubbles, it's like amazing. I do, I do blow bubbles every single morning, not this morning because I couldn't get Coke on fountain.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Wait.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  I got it from a glass bottle at the hotel.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  And that you don't, you hate that?

• 39:01Speaker 03

  No, I hated that, yeah.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  You need it from a fountain?

• 39:04Speaker 03

  I need it from 7-Eleven or similar, yeah.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Are you?

• 39:07Speaker 03

  Or Wendy's, Die Hard Diet Coke.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Oh, Wendy's sounds so good.

• 39:10Speaker 03

  It does.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  What's your Wendy's order for those that don't know?

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh, well, I love the nuggets, they can't sound best nuggets ever, if you get your nuggets anywhere else, it's sad. Cause then you're just getting grease balls with a little chicken inside, and that's gross.

• 39:24Speaker 03

  There's a difference, I like eating everywhere, I'm a connoisseur. Um, Dave's Single Burger is unbelievable, they have all the accoutrements on that, on that burger. Like, it's like the perfect mayo, lettuce, onion, everything blend, that's like, next level. So like, the burger's so good, the tendies are amazing, their cookies are supreme.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  How are you not the face of Wendy's?

• 39:47Speaker 03

  I am.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  You're the face of Wendy's right now?

• 39:49Speaker 03

  Well, kind of, yeah, I've, five years I have like commercials with them four times a year.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Oh, that's amazing, and you have your Wendy's cash?

• 39:57Speaker 03

  Um, yes, I like, love Wendy's, it's like my favorite place to go, every single day I'm there. Like, they know me by name.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  I don't even have to, like, I drive through, they know my order already, they hear our voice, they see our car roll up, and they just know.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Does John love Wendy's as much as you love Wendy's?

• 40:13Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, John's there too.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  How did you and John meet?

• 40:16Speaker 03

  Um, okay, so John went on a Mormon mission, and he, his dad went on, one, two, John's adopted, he has like a crazy, like, adoption story, um, and he was adopted by a great family, his dad went on a mission to Paris, where you're going.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Yes, and missions were really long back then, now they're like two years, so I think it was like, three years back then, or two and a half. Um, his dad's like eighty, and, um, John thought he was gonna go to Paris, and so my sister, you know, we're in New York, we have no idea who this John Barlow guy is, obviously. Um, never met, and so she's dreaming of going to Paris on her mission, and you don't get to pick where you go. So she gets called to Vegas, and I think she wanted to be like, I'm not going. And John got the same call. He got called because he was, he grew up all over like Germany, Florida, Texas, California, Chicago, because his dad was an exec with IBM. So then when he got called to Vegas, he's like, are you kidding me?

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Like, I think he was like, all my friends are going somewhere cool. I'm going to Vegas. So they met on their mission and she, we would hear about John Barlow nonstop. To the point where I was like, I hate John Barlow and I haven't even met him.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Wait, what? Just like hearing like this cute guy, John Barlow?

• 41:27Speaker 03

  Oh, so cute and he's like perfect and he's amazing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I was at BYU. She came out. She finished her mission was at BYU. John was off his mission at BYU. And one night she's like, let's go over to John Barlow's house. I'm like, I hate John Barlow. Like, I don't want to go. And she's like, he has a cute friend. You should come. So I bought ice cream, brought it over. The friend annoyed me so bad. I literally got my ice cream out of the freezer and walked home. Because I was like, I can't stand being around this guy. And, um, and she was like crushing on John, but he didn't like her. So he went on like one day and like, I think they kissed once, like nothing like serious. And he was like, not, we're not meant to be together. He actually got married to somebody else.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  And I remember like he sent in like an announcement to like our house. And I remember opening it and thinking, I could have married him. And just throwing the announcement like on the bed. And like, you know, seven years later, I run into John in Utah. And my sister's like, you guys, we should all go to a baseball game. And I'm like, I'm not, I didn't want to go because I didn't like him because he didn't like my sister.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  Some weird, I don't know, loyalty thing, you know, with your family.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  So we ended up going to a baseball game and we started hanging out. We were just like platonic best friends. And one day I'm like, I love you. And he's like, I love you too.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  And now it's.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  And we've been together for 25 years.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's been a long time.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  So what was BYU like?

• 42:53Speaker 03

  Amazing. When I was there, it was like the best school on earth.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Could.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Like the best school on earth.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Could you break the rules and drink?

• 43:00Speaker 03

  Everybody broke the rules.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  Okay, right. That's like.

• 43:03Speaker 03

  Everybody broke the rules. Like all, like I lived off campus. I lived in like the most. Killer townhouse and then moved into the sickest condo. We went to Vegas every weekend. Some girl had a hookup down there, so we'd drive this guy Jordan's like sick cars down. On Friday night, come back Sunday night before school and like. Spend like the weekend laying out by the pool like I don't even know what my friends were doing. I still don't want to know what they were doing. We'd go to other frat parties for other colleges and like.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Would anyone else try to like get you guys in trouble with the school?

• 43:36Speaker 03

  No, never. No, I mean, I I didn't hang out with any of the Utah kids. Like all of my friends were from like Boston, Connecticut, New York, LA. Like San Francisco, Texas, like none of my friends were born and raised in Utah. I it was like such a separation between like the born and raised kids and then the like kids from out of town.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Lisa, what are you therapist about today?

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh, so many things.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Tell me everything.

• 44:05Speaker 03

  I hate showers that don't have really good wands.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Like water pressure?

• 44:10Speaker 03

  No, like you know the wand to like, like if you stay. Like the first thing I do when I check into a hotel is I check to make sure the shower has like really good wand system and like jets. Do you?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Like a, what do you mean a jet?

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Like you know how they have the sprayers? Like for your body?

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Like on the side of the?

• 44:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, on the side, yeah, and like a wand, so like.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I I I'm not a wand person. I care about water pressure. My water pressure in my shower is atrocious.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  Is it bad?

• 44:37Speaker 01

  So bad.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  Wait, what?

• 44:40Speaker 01

  I don't know. I I need help. Like, I don't know what to do.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  I think we can get you help today. Somebody like.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Showerhead with the pressure.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Sprinkling down.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  You have to call a plumber.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Okay, the plumber?

• 44:52Speaker 03

  You have to call a plumber like immediately. You need a new showerhead and they need to like check your hot water heaters.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:57Speaker 03

  You you need multiple.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're like with showers as married as to baths?

• 45:02Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I'm neurotic about my showers. Like if they don't have a wand, I like want to check out immediately. I don't get like, you know, like some Ritz Carlton's don't even have a wand. And you're like, who's not updating your bathrooms?

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Like that kind of stuff makes me really mad.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  I a hundred percent get that.

• 45:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  This episode of Therapist is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking dot, yeah. The other day I was on my phone and I was talking to my best friend Alice and we were looking at old photos of when we were in Santa Barbara together and it made me really, really, really want to go back. So Alice and I are now planning a trip to go back to Santa Barbara with Booking.com. We both have very, very, very specific needs. We like to make sure that we're able to walk because I can't drive, so it's always nice to be able to walk into town. I need air conditioning. We both need air conditioning, a lot of it. And so these are things that we are able to put into Booking.com to help us find the best place to stay. We can also rent a car on Booking.com.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  We can make the trip full rounded and Alice and I need all the help we can get. Every trip Alice and I take, we always use Booking.com because it makes it the easiest possible way to book the trip. It helps us really get from the idea to the actual destination, which is sometimes difficult. So we are gonna go on Booking.com and find the perfect place to stay at in Santa Barbara because we are not just letting this be an idea. Go on, book that trip. It's easy. At Booking.com. Booking dot, yeah. Book today on the site or in the app.

• 46:38Speaker 03

  You know, I went into the season and I'm like, this is what I did for myself that I think made me feel so good. I was so enabled. They just let us do what we needed to do. To like, tell our story and that for me was the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  I'm so excited to see this season.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  I loved it. And you know, people might hate me and I don't care. I just was like, I never cared, but like now I really genuinely don't. And I just feel like, you know, I got accused of doing so many things I've never done. I wouldn't even think to do, like my brain doesn't even work that way. And then to like, have the freedom to just be me, be her, you know? Ella Langley said it best, just be her. Felt so good.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Take me back to that boat trip when everyone was accusing you of shit and you went out on the deck and called John and now one of the most famous scenes in Salt Lake history.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  I was so hurt.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:39Speaker 03

  Like I that those were such genuine feelings and cries of hurt and um I talked about it at the reunion. It didn't make it into the show. I mean, there's so much only so much time, but we, you know, to get to a destination like Canada, when we were there early. So you stay on the island for two days before you got on the boat. So Heather was having a hard time. We took Heather to the tiki bar. I got a golf cart, picked her up, snuck her out of her room. We were like doing karaoke and having the time of our life. Before we got on the boat. So I was shocked when she's like, you're the source. I'm like, I'm the source? You're the one that has all the issues. Not me. I I have issues, but I there I don't care about.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  I don't care enough about them to raise them. Like you're the one that cares more. You're the one that was crying. You're the one we took out of your bedroom. And like, so how am I the source? And when Bronwyn actually got on the boat, she accused Whitney of being the one that leaked the stuff about her. She's like, I was told by some blogger. It's like a well-known blogger. Um, that it's Whitney. And so I was defending Whitney. And then Whitney turned it on me and then Heather turned it on me that night. And that trip was awful for me. Like I I was like literally by myself. Like I felt so isolated.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  How do you deal with the fact that Meredith doesn't defend you in that situation?

• 49:03Speaker 03

  Meredith, I understand her. So she it's not like we grew up so differently. That like I I do what I need to do and Meredith can do what she needs to do. I'm like, I said it at the reunion. I'm like, I can I can go fucking solo. Like I can I can.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Lisa Barlow.

• 49:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can take. I can speak for myself. I can take care of myself. I'm fine. Um, and you know, sometimes my feeling, you know, there have been times when my feeling gets hurt and I talk through them. But I think for me, I've I have just learned. To do this in a way that feels so comfortable for me now and like so like like I'm at peace with so much that um you know I can interact the way I wanna interact and get what I need from it.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, does that make sense?

• 49:53Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Does that make sense to you?

• 49:55Speaker 03

  But you can't, I can't put expectations on people where like it's like when people are like you get so defensive and I'm like well I'm defensive because I'm mad. And because that's offensive.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  You know, and so for me, I've just like um you know, just figured things out and stuff, but I can't Meredith is gonna always be Meredith and I'm always gonna be me and I think and I think I like you know, one thing that I told John last week in the car that I really need from the show more is individuality because I I value individuality. Like I think it's so fun to have our fans that are individuals that align with us and feel us and like you know, like you and I have like a natural like

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  connection and like we get each other in such a natural way. And I'm like when you have that with someone, it's so great, but I don't wanna skin you and wear you. I just love you for you and you same with me. And I think like on the show, when you're in a smaller group, I think like for me, one thing I've really craved and like worked really hard at is just like seeing how people are real individuals and like what I love about them as an individual. If we're getting along or not getting along and I just really wanna just be me.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  Like that's my powers, like just being me.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Be her.

• 51:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, be her. And I think when I feel like that's jeopardized, that's when I'm like the most defensive.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  And then the show gets hard.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:22Speaker 03

  You know?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Well, I'm so grateful that you had such a good experience during season seven.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't know how that it's gonna be, but I had so much fun doing it.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  So who fucking cares?

• 51:29Speaker 03

  I never, I never get mad at the edits cuz you can fix it at the reunion. And like I don't prep for the reunion. I just have to show up and remember, I either have to remember how I felt or how I would feel and I'm fine.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  I have a really good memory too.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Oh, you do?

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Which helps. Oh, yeah.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  What's something you can memorize that like other people can't?

• 51:46Speaker 03

  Um, I don't know if I can remember things, but like Meredith though is so is always like if you wanna know what happened, just ask Lisa cuz she'll remember it in detail. And I pick up on weird details too.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:57Speaker 03

  Like interesting details, things I think are interesting, so.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Manny is the number one fan of this show besides me. Do you have any questions for Lisa before we get into the Tommy What's Wrong?

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Every time I hear you speak in any interview or like any little clip I see online, you have, or you seem like you have such self-love and like such confidence. And I know this is like, kind of like a broad question and also I feel like a very like common question, but I really like feel it from you. How did you like cultivate that? How do you have such self-love and like, do you have any advice for someone that doesn't? Not me, a friend.

• 52:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, yes.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  You know, when I wrote Baby Gorgeous,

• 52:44Speaker 03

  you're gonna see the process on the show. And like, I cried throughout it because, oh, I don't want to get emotional. Hold on, I'm gonna, I always bite the inside of my cheeks so I don't. I used to think emotion and crying was weakness. It's a superpower.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  It's a superpower.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  All of our most successful friends, like billionaire friends that have sold, and I'm not bragging, I'm not dropping names, I could, but my closest friends, they all cry when they talk about something they care about because, and you can't be successful if you can't feel. Like, I don't want to be around someone that doesn't have feelings. Like, just done. We're like, if you have no, if you're on a permanent beta blocker, like, not, not one you need, but like one that you just don't feel. It's sad and it's like draining. But when I was writing Baby Gorgeous, I sat with Jed and Jake and I'm like, I'm gonna give you a pep talk. Because everybody goes through it. Like, you're gonna see John goes through it and John is like, handsome and bold and strong and witty.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  Everybody goes through something where they're like jarred, like where their self-confidence is jarred, right? Or their like ability to see who they actually are is jarred. And so I'm like, I'm gonna give you a pep talk. And I just started talking and it became the lyrics of the song. And I was like, your ener, I was, you know, giving it to my two friends, like that I'm co-writing this song with and I'm like, your energy is magic. If you feel it happens, you have the power to like make anything happen. And we turned it into a song, but I think since I was a little girl,

• 54:12Speaker 03

  I'll never forget going to this girl Michelle's house and her mom had me over, I swear, just to tell me how ugly I was. And like just to be mean, I was in fourth grade and like I'll never forget it. I remember being that little, what dress I had on, what her mother was wearing, what room we were in, the yellow ugly pillows on the couch. And and feeling sorry for her mother. That she felt like she had to put a little like I knew I was a kid. And I knew she should know better. I felt sorry for her mom and I still feel it to this day. That the only way she could feel good about her child was to make me feel like shit. And I had another girl Tina in high school, her mom did the same thing in ninth grade.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  We were all at their summer house and she was the mom relentlessly every chance she got. And I just put up a wall and was like, I am better than this. Like for real and not better than people, I'm better than this. Like and it just doesn't impact me. And I think like, you know, I give a lot of it to God. I'm like seriously like love God, I have like such a good relationship with God. Like when I said I'm important to God, like everyone should feel important to God. Like you should feel that you should a hundred percent feel like I matter. What I think matters, how I feel matters, I matter. And I think when people get so caught in the chaos of like life in the world,

• 55:38Speaker 03

  you forget that like it's easy to forget like, oh my gosh, I matter. You know, even with baby gorgeous is so fun. Like one girl's like sent me a video and she's like, I'm crying listening to like the lyrics.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  It makes me like a little emotional because I'm like, and I'm like, people should feel good about themselves like.

• 56:01Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean? It's like you should wake up and feel good like it's special. My, you know what I follow a lot of on TikTok? My nephew has um, he um, has cerebral palsy and it's not bad. And I watch all these kids with cerebral palsy, like talking about their story. And my nephews isn't like, yeah, thanks Jake, you're like, what do I do? What do I do with these? Um, but I watch like my nephew and like the struggles he's had. Like I remember him saying like, oh my gosh, no one's ever gonna love me. And I'm like, and he's so gorgeous and it didn't affect his speech, it affected his arm.

• 56:41Speaker 03

  When he's born and he's so cute and I watch all these kids on TikTok talking about their cerebral palsy and like how it's hard for them to talk and they're like, I'm brilliant inside, but I have a hard way expressing it. And I'm like, that's so beautiful and like they find beauty in everything and I think you just have to find like, you know, God made all of us like, some people have harder hardships, they have health issues, they have physical impairments or deformities and stuff, but there's beauty in everybody and everything and I think like when you start to feel that about yourself, it's hard, you have to remind yourself. Like it's a beautiful thing and I've just like never allowed other people's thoughts about me when I know me

• 57:25Speaker 03

  to change that. That's why like in my song, it's like, people think you're lost out in the dark, but you're just shining like in the stars. Like it's really powerful and I really wanted people to hear that and like, just get that in your head. Cause even if you don't really hear the words at first, it's just like a catchy bop. Then you really start to hear the lyrics and it's like, no, like, you are like people that judge you online chain, they don't know you. They don't know your magic. They don't know your energy. They don't get to experience what we all get to experience with you that you're like funny and witty and charming and cool and like everything. They just like wanna take from you. And then it's like easy when you learn like, no, you don't get to take from me.

• 58:05Speaker 03

  I, I, this is beautiful and special about me and we all like the weirdest things make some of us the coolest people.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:13Speaker 03

  And, and I think it's just like embracing all of that and like understanding that and like, I am so much more accepting of other people because of that. Like I feel like, I, you know, I don't really look at other people's weaknesses as weaknesses. I just am like, oh, that's like, that's rough. I'm sad for you or like, you know, or like you're never gonna get a piece of me again. Like, you know what I mean? But I think it's, I think it's, I think some people have to work harder on it, but it's also like allowing your mind to open up to the point where you're just like, that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  I matter. I matter to me. I know who I am. And everyone has special gifts too, like not everyone gets the same ones, we all get special ones.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Wow, that makes me think of the song in such a different light.

• 59:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Like it really has so much depth.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  It's like a good pride song too, you know what I mean? And it's like, don't let anyone tell you who you are, don't let anyone mess with your, what you're like entitled to and what you deserve, you know? And people are gonna judge you, but it doesn't matter. And like, this way it's like, we don't walk, we strut, you know? Like, you can go your own way if you have something bad to say. And just remember that, if you read something negative, just be like, go your own way.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  And you're just baby gorgeous.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, you don't belong here.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Baby gorgeous is just-

• 59:32Speaker 03

  Some people write me things to me and I'm like, oh, you have bad energy.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Bad energy, you're not baby gorgeous.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  Your energy is really bad.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Thank you for sharing that.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I just like, and like, I hate being like a crybaby about it, but I think like, so many people need to be reminded, like, I wanna write a book for kids on confidence.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Oh my god, that would be amazing.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  It's like a little cool book that's like, talks about like how to build your confidence and like, where to be confident, you know, because I think like, it's like something we all need to be reminded of. Our world is mean, it used to not be this mean because you didn't have to hide behind Cheeto stained fingers and like a keyboard, like you had to say things to people's faces. You had to see their reactions, you had to see the hurt on their faces. You had to deal with the repercussions to your actions, so you would feel bad. Like, I remember everyone I was mean to. And like, I regret it and like, feel bad. I mean, I, ten years ago, I made apologies to people where I'm like, I said this, I don't know if you remember, but I'll never forget it and I feel bad. You know?

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  You like, you took ownership of.

• 1:00:30Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, because I'm like, it was wrong.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Cause you remember their reaction. But now everyone can just hit send and forget about it.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  But they, they don't like the way it makes them feel when someone's mean to them, but they have no problem doing it to somebody else. But I think like, I like love, John will always tell me, he's like, you'll always come home and say, oh my gosh, I met this person and I'm obsessed with them, you're gonna be obsessed with them. And he's like, you find all these like crazy, unique things about them. And then when I meet him, I'm like, I see them differently. Or like, I'm like, oh, I would have never picked up on that. And I think it's just like finding that in other people, and then it makes you love yourself more in the process.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  I really, and I know you said that like you didn't wanna cry, but I think when you cry like it makes you human, it makes you so much more human, cuz like a lot of people like see, I always feel like people see reality television stars as characters. But it's like, at the end of the day, it's real television and that's what you were saying.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  It's real life.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  It's real life.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  And so, I like, every time when I see you cry on television, like I feel it, and I know that's real.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, and it's, and like I said too, it's like, I used to think it was such a weakness, I'd be so embarrassed if I cried. And I'm like, no, it's like, feeling your, being in tune with like, you know, your feelings about yourself. But I think, it's like, I think people, I think you guys are gonna love watching John's story this year too.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  I'm excited.

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  He's never been this involved.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  The show, and it was like so good for us, I think as individuals and for our marriage, I think it was so good.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Are you nervous for his, how he is gonna like receive?

• 1:02:18Speaker 03

  I think he's gonna hate it. He's gonna hate it, but I'm, but I'm like, we're so like obsessed. We're like in our own little bubble, like I, like last night I had to sleep at the hotel without him and I, we cross legs when we sleep, like we're locked. And it was like, I'm like, oh my gosh, I missed your leg on mine. And we don't have a perfect marriage, I mean, we fight, like, last season I thought, when I watched that one scene of us having lunch, when we filmed it, it didn't bother me at all, I didn't think twice about it, when I watched it, I was like, do you love me?

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  Like, I literally was like, you don't love me anymore, you would have never quipped at me if you loved me. I'm like, John, you don't love me anymore. He's like, what are you talking about? I always talk to you like that, and I'm like, no, but it felt different when I watched it back, it like, broke my heart, like I cried for three weeks.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  What's it like watching yourself back like that? Like, do you come out of your own body and like, like view yourself as?

• 1:03:11Speaker 03

  When I wa, that's the only scene. My hot mic moment took me out.

• 1:03:19Speaker 03

  I mean, I.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  You were like, oh shit.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  There's no, I mean, for like six months after when Ray Fiennes was me on Watch What Happens Live quoting the whole thing, I died. I was like, do I laugh? Do I cry? What do I do? Do I, is this like an honor? Like, it's Ray Fiennes?

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  It is an honor. It's an honor and it's great television.

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  It was raw and human and we all vent. That's the best way to get it all out and move on.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  That's why when I saw that hot mic moment, I was like, fuck, like.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  Now I'm glad it happened because I think me and Meredith are in such a better place and like such a real authentic place. And so that was good. I mean, like I, I would never want to hurt her, but like, we got to like a really deep level of friendship because of that.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  And then like last season, when I watched that scene with John, like I, at the reunion, when I'm talking about it and I'm like, no, I cried for like three weeks. And everyone's like, it didn't seem that bad. And I'm like, no, but I know my partner.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. So yeah, it was bad.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  Did you feel, did you feel gaslit by like the woman at the reunion?

• 1:04:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. When they were telling me how I felt.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. Beyond. I was like, I, that's why I was like, I'm not saying, I mean, you guys can't hear everything I say because it gets edited down. But I kept saying, I'm not talking. I'm not saying another word. You guys are telling me how I feel. I'm telling you what's real and you're telling me how I feel.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Well, we saw Meredith say to you, you said what you needed to say. You're good. You don't need to keep fighting back against everyone.

• 1:04:41Speaker 03

  All of them. Yeah. So it was wild.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Wild.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  Wild.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  I kind of miss when it was you, Meredith and Heather though. Do you remember that you guys had that? Am I wrong? Didn't they have like a threesome?

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  Well, we were good for like a few months, but I, I just think it's like, I think some, no, I don't, I'm, I'm totally good.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm totally good. I know we're, I know how I'm friends with Heather. I know how I'm friends with everybody. Like, I know, like, yeah.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  Okay. You ready to do the, to tell me what's wrongs? These are just the pussies right in and they tell us what's wrong and we give them advice.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  Okay, I love this.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  And I think you'll give some really good advice.

• 1:05:17Speaker 03

  I hope so.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  I have fallen in love with my roommate and don't know what to do. We're both gay and she knows I have feelings for her, but says I would make things, but says it would make things complicated. How do I go about living with her? Do I keep pretending that everything she does is a sign? Or do I have to disassociate and neglect these feelings?

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  Um, it's not a sign. Like, everything she does is her just being kind. It's not a sign. You need to get a new roommate, because this is painful for you.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is so painful. You have to move.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  Get a new roommate.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  I kind of agree. It's like you said, you're in love with her and there's no coming back from that.

• 1:05:54Speaker 03

  No. No, she knows and she, it's not reciprocated.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  And it's only gonna hurt you.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's gonna, it's, and you know what? It's a blessing in disguise, because that means it's not your person. You'll find your person. We all have to have one big heartbreak before we can find like the love of our life. Like, for sure. Maybe even two big heartbreaks, so that you can really appreciate, like, the person you end up with. I remember sitting on a nail salon and this girl was like, trying to find a sign and everything with this guy, to the point where I finally turned around and I'm like, he doesn't like you. He's not calling you because he doesn't like you. Like, you need to move on. Like, I'm listening to the whole thing. There's, your friend is trying to be nice to you right now. He does not like you.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:36Speaker 03

  Men that like girls, or girls that like girls, or guys that like guys, show it.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, if they like you back, you're, you'd be together.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, you wouldn't have to question it.

• 1:06:44Speaker 03

  And there's somebody amazing waiting for you that's gonna appreciate your love, wanna reciprocate your love, and you're gonna be like, thank God that didn't work out.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:52Speaker 03

  Yes, trust me, you will be fine.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Thank God that didn't work out.

• 1:06:54Speaker 03

  Thank God it didn't work out. Thank God for unanswered prayers.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  Yes, for sure. It's part of a country song.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  I can't remember which one, but I know it is.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  I wanna make like a Nixon Five rhyme with Baby Gorgeous.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  Ooh, let's do it.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Like, Lisa Barlow Hive.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  Baby gorgeous vibe, Knicks in five.

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  Ooh, I love it.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  Right? I just came up with that right now.

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  That was good.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just go that just, yes. Lisa Barlow hive, baby gorgeous vibe, Knicks in five.

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  Are you a Knicks fan?

• 1:07:26Speaker 03

  Love the Knicks. Our friend Jordan Clarkson plays for the Knicks. I'm obsessed with him. He played for Utah. He is such a good human being. I love his whole entire family and great dad, like, love them. And when he went to the Knicks, I was like, if we were gonna lose you from the Jazz to anyone, thank God you went home.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  Diehard Knicks fan, diehard.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  I mean, being in the city for the Knicks with Jazz. Yeah, it's your, it's who you are.

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  I cannot believe you were there. I, like, literally, you've had the best few weeks.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  It was...

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  Like Jake.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  Jake.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:07:57Speaker 03

  That's why you have haters.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  But I had a great fucking time.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  I loved watching you have a great time.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  I had a great fucking time.

• 1:08:03Speaker 03

  I lived vicariously through you in Europe and New York. You deserve all of this.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:08:07Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, when you're front row at the Dior show.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  I've never been to Paris, so I'm like...

• 1:08:11Speaker 03

  Vlog every fucking second of this trip.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:08:14Speaker 03

  Every fucking second.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:08:16Speaker 03

  I would be like, I'm at Dior, hi, bitches.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  For everything.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  I, yeah.

• 1:08:20Speaker 03

  They're gonna hate either way, so...

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  My boyfriend loves his mom almost to an overbearing degree.

• 1:08:26Speaker 03

  Weird.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  Done, break up.

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  I just started to notice this, and it's all fine for now, but what if we're to get married and I'm his second favorite woman in his life? Like, what? They have a great relationship and they're best friends, so it's just weird for me when they spend more time together than with me.

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  I mean, red flag all over the place. I love my children more than my, I would give them my organs. You need my kidneys, they're yours. No, weird.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  Say goodbye.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Goodbye.

• 1:08:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Just break up.

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  Bye, we're done.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  We're done.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  My family misplaced my birth certificate. Like, they just fucking lost it. I needed it recently, and my mom was like, oh, you know what? Where is that? And it's just gone. So I technically have no real proof of citizenship. I looked it up, and you can replace it, but my real issue is, how the fuck were they so careless with something so important? Like, it feels like I'm invisible.

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  Okay, you're not invisible. How many kids does your mom have? Maybe you're the only one. You know what? Maybe my mom... misplaced stuff on the regular, on the regular. And my mom, literally when I was seventeen, gave me my social security card, my birth certificate, and said, "It's no longer my responsibility, because if it's mine, it's gonna disappear."

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  Yes, and she's an organized neat freak, and my, my house smells like bleach when you walk into it. So we're super clean, super organized, and she could barely keep track of my birth certificate. You're not invisible, that you're in your head about this, everybody loves you. You know what is so cool? Something good is gonna come from this. Like, the journey to get your birth certificate is gonna open some other crazy door that you're gonna be like, "Oh, thank God I lost my birth certificate."

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:03Speaker 03

  Cause stuff like that happens to me all day. I'll be like, "Where's my one goyard wallet?" And then I'll be looking for it, and I'll find five other good things.

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  Yes, this is like a little magic thing that's happening for you.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  My parents lose shit all the time for me. Like, my dad forgets my birthday all the time. My dad calls me my brother's name all the time. Like, I feel like we're in like this era where people are like helicopter parenting their kids hard, and like they know where everything is. And da-da-da-da-da-da-da. If I called my parents right now and said, "Where's my birth certificate?", they'd be like, "I don't know." They're like, "I don't know." Cause I don't know when I would need that.

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  And you're very visible.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  You're, everyone loves you, honey. You're good.

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  Well, you know what? If no one loves me, at least Lisa Barlow loves me, and that's what's the most important.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  I love, love you.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  I love you more. Cheers.

• 1:10:46Speaker 03

  I love you.

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  Eyes.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Loved, loved, love. My best friend from childhood, and I used to talk every single day, even after I moved away years and years ago. We've completely drifted, which happens. I got busy with college and my career, and he stayed in the town. He always stayed, he always said he wanted to do that. I've tried calling him a couple of times recently, and he isn't picking up, which is very unlike him. I just learned through a mutual friend recently that apparently he thinks I became this asshole New York City, New York hotshot. And I'm icing him out. How do I tell him? I've just been busy.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  Will you pick up the phone and call him, or text him? If he's not picking up, I think you should write him a letter.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Like handwritten?

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, handwrite a letter and just be like, "I miss you bitch" or something like.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:31Speaker 03

  For real. Just write him a letter. And I just think people, it's probably his, it sounds like it's his own insecurities.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  He's projecting. He doesn't want to stay in the town.

• 1:11:40Speaker 03

  Because he stayed in the town, you went out and did other things and like moved on. And instead of being like, like, "I love this life for you, enjoy that I like kept like, you know, stayed true to what I wanted," it's just a projection.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Most things are.

• 1:11:57Speaker 03

  You guys gotta bump into each other.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, if you, if the friendship is real, it'll come back around.

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  There's no way that friendship's not real. Like when you're friends that long, you just, you just have to see each other.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Right. That's what I always say about me. Me and my best friend Julia fight all the time.

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  And then you just need to see each other and you're fine.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  All we do is need to see each other and it's like, "Oh yeah, we're fine."

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, we love each other. Why were we mad?

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Right, why were we mad? Like I, we've literally screamed, cried at each other. That's why I'm like, I love Housewives so much. I'm like, "I feel like this is my life." "Hi Jake and special guest. It feels like I'm the only one in my life who is trying to keep relationships alive. When I stop trying or don't show initiative, the relationship dies. Am I the problem or just unlucky with friends?"

• 1:12:37Speaker 03

  No, you're special. Um, I think that people that are so amazing usually have one to three friends. It's not you. Just keep vibing, keep being you. You're not the problem. They're not meant for you. You're rejecting them energetically. Um, you know, quality is better than quantity and you're not the problem. You just haven't found your people yet. Yes.

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  Yes. Enough said.

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  Like the most special people have very small circles.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  I completely agree.

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  You don't have a big circle if you're like.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  I used to have the biggest fucking circle and I was so run ragged and I'm like, I literally.

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  They were sucking you dry.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  I'm like, I need, my body was like, literally giving up on me.

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  My best friend and I have a lot of fun together, but she will randomly make negative comments about me. Like bringing up my ex or things I am insecure about to people we hang out with.

• 1:13:30Speaker 03

  She's not your friend.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:13:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, bye.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Bye. I don't have a ton of friends, so I don't know whether to drop her or not, and it sucks because she's really fucking funny, but always uses me as the butt of the joke.

• 1:13:39Speaker 03

  Nope, bye. Not your friend.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Not your friend?

• 1:13:43Speaker 03

  Not your friend.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  Not your friend?

• 1:13:45Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:46Speaker 03

  I mean, there's like a million quotes I could send that girl.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:49Speaker 03

  Or whoever wrote that in.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  I have a quote above my bed, my favorite quote, Manny painted it for me, she's a painter. Yeah, she could paint you a-

• 1:13:56Speaker 03

  Do I need one too?

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  No, she's very talented. She painted a painting for my parents. Yes.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's very talented. It says, um, but yeah, it's, you need a quote. And Lisa can send you quotes.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  What's a quote you would give her right now?

• 1:14:14Speaker 03

  Um, Manny or this girl?

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  This girl.

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  Oh, I was like, one to paint or one to live up? Um, you know, I think it's the thing about the eagle flying, you know, like when, you know, the only way to take out an eagle, there's another bird that like, what is it, the crow will attach itself to the eagle? And the eagle doesn't react, it just flies higher and then the crow like falls off. You know, like just fly higher, just keep being yourself, like, you know, don't worry about other people. But someone, someone that's being passive aggressive to you under the guise of humor does not like you. They're jealous of you, it's a trigger.

• 1:14:58Speaker 03

  And I think that person needs to figure out what you trigger in them, but you need to know that you are a trigger for this person. Because if you weren't, they wouldn't be being passive aggressive with nasty comments about you.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Right, a lot of-

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  I don't know what the quote is right now, but just keep flying higher and find new friends. Yeah, don't let the crow bring you down.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  I had been best friends with this guy for four years. We hung out all the time, FaceTimed every night and told each other everything. But a few months ago, everything changed when he started dating this girl. He would spend all of his time texting and calling her. Well, that makes sense because they're dating.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  And he didn't tell me that they were dating until I confronted him about it. Oh, so you're in love with him. Now he ignores me, doesn't tell me anything, and I've turned into the evil girl best friend.

• 1:15:39Speaker 03

  He's moved on.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  I think she maybe-

• 1:15:41Speaker 03

  He has a new best friend.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Respectfully, she was a little in love with him. Didn't want to admit it. And, right? Am I, what do you guys think?

• 1:15:50Speaker 03

  No, a hundred percent.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:52Speaker 03

  I thi- I think you have a crush, you're Twitter-pated by him, and-

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  You're what?

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  Twitter-pated, like you know when you get those butterflies in your stomach?

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that word.

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  Like when you're Twitter-pated? I love that Twitter-pated feeling. I still have it with John.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Aww.

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  But like, I think she probably, crushing hard.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:09Speaker 03

  Move on.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  Move on.

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  I'm bad at sex and it's becoming a real issue. I was a little bit of a late bloomer, but I'm 25 and should maybe have a better handle on this. During one-night-stand or hookups, I never know what to say or what to do after, and I'm just really uncoordinated in general. I have an active sex life too, so is it just like practice makes perfect?

• 1:16:28Speaker 03

  No. No, practices not make perfect.

• 1:16:32Speaker 01

  Wait, so what do you think she should do?

• 1:16:34Speaker 03

  I think you need to just find your person and get into a rhythm.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  You need a better rhythm and you'll find it with your person. But practice doesn't make perfect because then you're just having sex. You're not having sex because you want to- Listen, I tell my kids this all the time. Like, not all the time, but like when we talk about like sex and stuff, I'm like, there is nothing better than having intimacy with your person. When you love someone, everything's so much better. Like, I'm, like, I'm probably gonna sound weird right now. I'm so anti-pornography. I've told my kids since they were little, I told Jack pornography is bad. It'll ruin your brain, it's worse than drugs, and it does. And like as he got older, I'm like, Jack, you don't ever want to look at porn or get addicted to porn because you will never have great sex if you watch porn or anything.

• 1:17:22Speaker 03

  And I think it's not about, with this girl and her situation, it's not about- Um, quantity and like being like, I need to be good at sex. You can't be great at sex with someone you're just meeting. And practicing on like great sex comes from having a rhythm and being in love and like. Feeling someone and knowing their body and appreciating their body and like. The energy you guys have together. That's like great, like that's when you know you're. Great at sex like you're not bad at. This person is not bad. You're not bad at sex.

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:17:53Speaker 03

  You're not having, you're having sex with the wrong people, like save yourself. For the right one and then it will just work.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  Yes, it'll just work.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  You give great advice.

• 1:18:03Speaker 03

  I hope so.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  You should have like an advice. Podcast.

• 1:18:10Speaker 03

  No, but it's true though. It works and like. Um, I think a lot of people put crazy pressures on themselves on like. What is good sex? Like what is bad sex? If you're having drunk sex, like it's probably. It might be good for in the moment, then you might wake up and you hate it like, but having that quality person and saving yourself for like someone where it's like. That intense like. Euphoric, like twitter painted amazing feeling so much better than. Rando's. You're not gonna have good sex and you're gonna think you suck.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  But you don't suck.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  You do not suck.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  You just need to find your person.

• 1:18:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's impossible to suck at sex.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:18:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:47Speaker 03

  I think if you're into the person, if it's like a stranger and you're like. Don't care. I think it's like there's so many extraneous factors that. I think when you and your person are together, it's impossible to have bad sex.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 1:18:59Speaker 03

  When it's your person.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  Agreed. I haven't found my person yet, but I will.

• 1:19:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  I will.

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  Do we like anybody? Crushing?

• 1:19:08Speaker 01

  I hope I want to find a Paris lover.

• 1:19:10Speaker 03

  You're just, it's gonna be kismet.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Okay, please put it out there for me. Put it out there for me.

• 1:19:15Speaker 03

  What I told my friend Julia, she got married. We were um, at Chaconi's like four years ago.

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Oh, best restaurant in the world.

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, and she was like, I'm never gonna find anyone. I'm like, I don't even know what's going on and she's so gorgeous. She's so smart and successful. I go, just talk openly to God all the way home. She was living in Santa Monica. I'm like, tell God what you want. She did the whole way home and I'm like, just keep telling God every day until he gives you your person. She had her person. It was like six weeks later.

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  So you just need to put it out there.

• 1:19:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, just put it out there. Just, all you have to do is keep saying, "I'm gonna find my person. I'm gonna find who I should be with."

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  In Paris.

• 1:19:49Speaker 03

  Yes, in Paris. It's Paris, right?

• 1:19:52Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:19:54Speaker 03

  We need a Parisian.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  I'm gonna text you updates. I'm gonna FaceTime you with updates. Oh, I'm gonna Face-

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  We don't text enough.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  We need to text more.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:20:03Speaker 03

  Send me video messages.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  I will, we'll send video messages every day.

• 1:20:07Speaker 03

  Oh, you have to.

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  I love getting, sometimes I get video messages from Lisa and I feel really special.

• 1:20:11Speaker 03

  Yes, that's how I send you messages.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  Yes. And one time Manny and I were watching Salt Lake and I was like, "Should I just call Lisa?"

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  And Manny was like, "No way." And I was like, "Swear I think she'll pick up."

• 1:20:20Speaker 03

  And I did.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  And Manny was freaky now.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  I will always pick up for you unless I'm in a position where I can't.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  I will always pick up.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  Lisa, what did we learn today?

• 1:20:30Speaker 03

  That we love each other so much.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  Yes, we do. And Baby Gorgeous is lowkey a pride anthem.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is. It's a pride anthem. It's an anthem for self.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think it's a mantra that everyone should live by and that you're gonna be having the time. You're, you are having the summer of your life. Do you realize this?

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  No, I don't and I need to.

• 1:20:50Speaker 03

  Wait, do you realize this? Like, think about it. You were at the Knicks game.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:54Speaker 03

  The most epic game-

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Of all time.

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  Of our, like, generation.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:59Speaker 03

  You were there. A week before that, where were you? On a super yacht in the Mediterranean.

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:06Speaker 03

  Your life is good.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  Go ahead.

• 1:21:07Speaker 03

  We learned that your life is great and you deserve it all.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  Yes, you deserve it all.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  And you deserve it all.

• 1:21:13Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  I love you.

• 1:21:15Speaker 03

  Bye pussies.