Session 119: Kacey Musgraves

I feel as if I’m in the presence of greatness…. Thanks to Depop for sponsoring this episode! https://www.depop.com/ Thank you to Poppi for sponsoring today’s episode! https://drinkpoppi.com/ Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Kacey & Stream “Middle of Nowhere” OUT NOW! https://kaceymusgraves.com Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Born from the intensity of a night in the eternal city. Introducing Born in Roma Fragrances by Valentino. Feminine perfume Donna Born in Roma features juicy black currant, central jasmine, soft cashmerin and warm vanilla. Masculine leaning but unisex Womo has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver and mineral salt. Shop holiday gifts at Macy's.com.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Hi, do you want to touch my crystal?

• 0:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  It gets rid of, um, it encourages trust and builds positivity and exerts healthy emotional release.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  You need that.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  I don't know if I want that.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Wait, you totally need that.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  Well, we have Kacey Musgraves on the show today.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Yay, that's our fave.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  Well, did you just buy this?

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Yesterday. I was crying and I walked into a crystal shop.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  You're not well.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  No. I'm really not.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Are you okay?

• 1:11Speaker 01

  No, I'm really not.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Why?

• 1:13Speaker 01

  I don't know, I've just been twisted up here.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  Why?

• 1:19Speaker 01

  It's not seamless, like of many things.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  You're just depressed.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Majorly.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Well, maybe.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  It's time to start meds again.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Yep, I've been screaming it from the rooftop for months.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  No, I took meds for like, um, five years and then I stopped.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Well, because Wellbutrin was giving you a panic attack.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  It was making me so anxious.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  But that's, I'm pretty sure that's like a common thing people have with it.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Yes, my psychiatrist is trying to give it to me and I'm like...

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Well, it's like a stimulant.

• 1:45Speaker 02

  So you're the, why would you need that?

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Right, so it just like wasn't helping my anxiety at all, so then I...

• 1:50Speaker 02

  I'm pretty sure it's for depression.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you can treat it for both, and I have both, so...

• 1:57Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  So I stopped. I mean, nobody cares about this. And then I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to start again soon because I'm just like, whoo.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  You're not well.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Bumpy.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I'm on Luvox.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 2:11Speaker 02

  It's for OCD. I think you have that.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  You think I have OCD?

• 2:14Speaker 02

  You think about the same thing consistently and you can't drop it.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  But I don't have like rituals like you.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Well, it can manifest in different ways.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Right. I probably have everything, honestly.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Probably. What's your favorite Casey song?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Well, I have to think about it.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  You love butterflies.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Love butterflies. Love Space Cowboy.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Space Cowboy.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  You showed me that one.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  I showed you Space Cowboy?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  You showed me Space Cowboy.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  I think Space Cowboy.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Or you like re-brought it to my life.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  I think that's my, right now, that's my favorite.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  But like Rainbow.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Oh, you love Rainbow.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Rainbow was the best.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  I talked to her.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  And, um, Justified. I like that song.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Oh, you love Justified.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Oh, Merry Go Round is so good.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Deeper Well in the backyard.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  In the backyard. What is that other one we love?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Come to me and drop. And drop your bags.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  What's like, you'll be fine.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  And I'll help you unpack. Nothing to be scared of.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  But what's the other one? The?

• 3:03Speaker 02

  Your.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  The Architect. We love that one.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  Because Casey just like really is so.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  She just says things and you're like, damn, yeah.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  That's what I told her. I said, you, yes, I wrote.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  She just says it's so simple and you're like, wow.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Because she, I said, I think she was put on this earth to like just write about the world.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Right. And like the simple things that like, you're like, oh damn.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  She like, I, she makes the simple things so extraordinary.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Deeper Well is like the best song I've ever heard in my life.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Like when that came out and you were like, put it on right now in the car. I was like.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  I think Casey writes like as if it's a bible for how to live life.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  A thousand percent. Merry Go Round is the greatest song of all time.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  The greatest wordplay of all time.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Like of all time. Trish showed me that song like.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Trish loves Casey.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Years and years ago. Yeah, it's just so good.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  We have to see her on tour.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Have to.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  Okay, so I'm obsessed with happier grocer.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Really?

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  What do you get there?

• 3:58Speaker 02

  The, uh.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Chicken?

• 4:00Speaker 02

  The gluten-free turkey wrap.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  I have it every single day.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  I still, by the way, like, I know that I grew up here and like I've lived here now for like eight months. I have no idea where I am, ever.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Have you had the smoothies from Happier?

• 4:12Speaker 02

  No. Are they good?

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, Kennedy really likes them. I've only had one once.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Which?

• 4:17Speaker 01

  You know what you need to try?

• 4:18Speaker 02

  What?

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Tom's Juice.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Really?

• 4:21Speaker 01

  It's that fucking good.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  What do they have?

• 4:23Speaker 01

  And you like juice, by the way. You always want juice.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  What do they have? What do they have?

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Am I wrong? Like, don't you always want like some type of refreshing drink?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  No, what do they have?

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Juice!

• 4:34Speaker 02

  But like, do they have snacks?

• 4:36Speaker 01

  No, just juice.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Nothing else? No food?

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Just juice.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  What do you get?

• 4:40Speaker 01

  The stores, the size of this table.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Do they have smoothies?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Just juice.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Okay. And is it good?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Okay, well, I'll get it after, I'll get it in a little.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  They have kiwi juice.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Ew.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  They have watermelon juice I had this morning.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  They have, well, he calls it coconut juice, but it's coconut water. They have orange, grapefruit, they have mango juice, which is insane. Sorry, just spit everywhere.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  I saw.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  They have passion fruit juice, but it's literally $10 for this big of juice.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  So the passion fruit is less juice than the other juices?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. It's like small for some reason.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Okay, continue.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Kiwi, did I say that yet?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  You, that was the first one you said, which did not tickle my pickle.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Well, it's amazing, so, like, I don't know why I'm convincing you.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  They have four juices?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  No, they have a million different juices. Like, just fucking go with me one time.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Okay. Do you like my haircut?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do, actually. I was noticing it.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  I just fully lied. I didn't notice.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  You didn't notice my hair was chopped?

• 5:39Speaker 01

  No. I don't notice boys' cuts.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's valid.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Do you like my hair?

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it looks great.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  It's so long.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Uh, Louise and I are getting Aqua Gold facials tomorrow.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  I want that. I got microneedling like a month ago and I thought it made my skin look amazing.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  At the Brightwood Clinic.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  At the Brightwood Clinic. I didn't get mine at the Brightwood Clinic. I got mine with Ally.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  And she gives you your whole thing?

• 5:58Speaker 01

  My whole thing.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Well, your skin looks great.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  I get a facial with her once a month.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Uh-huh.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  And then, we just recently did microneedling and PRP under my eyes.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  What is the, can, right, what do PRP under my eyes?

• 6:10Speaker 01

  But you're gonna be a little bruised for like a few days.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  No, I can't have that.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, no. It like honestly took me out of commission for like, remember when I got to Coachella and my eyes were like low key black and blue?

• 6:19Speaker 02

  No, I don't remember that at all.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Well, there was like black and blue like on this one eye and it had been like a week.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  That was the best Coachella of all time.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Oh my god, it was so fun.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  I've never had one.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  But I haven't been able to like really go out since because I was like so down bad for, I don't think you understand, like you didn't hear one word come out of my mouth on Sunday, did you?

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Oh my god, no, I didn't.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  I literally couldn't speak.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Do you remember I got a Benadryl IV?

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  What did I say?

• 6:40Speaker 01

  You guys, this was actually the most insane thing I know, like all of you, like I've never experienced anything like this. So Bev was over and we got IVs and Jake was like, I want the Benadryl, but I feel like you get Benadryl in your IVs every time.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  I do.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Something about this was different. He, she puts the Benadryl push in, all of a sudden, he starts speaking nonsense. Like actual nonsense, like words that didn't exist. He started like mumbling and jumbling, whatever, goes, you need to help me upstairs. He dives into bed. I don't hear from him for the next 24 hours. You woke up at like 5pm the next day.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  No, I didn't.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Or you went to bed, it was like 6pm and you didn't wake up until like 11 the next day.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  I started seeing people.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  It was super scary.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  I'm coming out with my, with my own skew of coches camias and I have them here.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  I'm so excited.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  I mean, holy fuck.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're good, right?

• 7:35Speaker 01

  This is the best by far.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  By far.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  By respectfully, of course, by far.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  And this one?

• 7:45Speaker 01

  It's amazing. It's amazing. And it still has like that marshmallow-y thing that the wild and free ones have, but it's like the taste of the rainbow kind of one.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  And sour.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Oh, hell. That's really good. Well, me and Casp had drinks. And we had four martinis each.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  Oh, that TikTok you sent me of the martini killed me.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, it was disgusting. It literally looked like green dishwater.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  It said, "You're having the worst day of your life, and this is the martini you get. It's in a plastic cup."

• 8:18Speaker 01

  And it's like dirt water green.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Like.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  And it's the Beyonce sound that's like, "So now what are you gonna say to me that you whatever at my funeral?" Anyways, we have four martinis each, so obviously I'm drunk, like blackout. Then Cass invited a few people to join us. And we were so fucked up, honestly, like really, really drunk.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Like, would I have had fun?

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you would have had fun. Then Peyton shows up alone.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Honestly, no idea where she came from. She just spawned. Ryan also spawns out of nowhere in a tuxedo.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  With our vlog camera, and he vlogged his entire.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Did you watch it yet?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  No, I haven't watched any of the footage yet, but he apparently said he sat down at the table and took the camera out of his pocket and was just like, "Hey, everyone, put the camera down," and everyone's heads snapped and was like, "Are you vlogging?"

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Because like, why would Ryan vlog?

• 9:09Speaker 01

  When we went to the nines to dance a bit.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Was it dancy?

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was really crowded.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Don't they like play piano there?

• 9:17Speaker 01

  No, it like turns into like fun vibes. Like, it's like not jazz bar. It's like a DJ and tables.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, okay.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Then we left. We got in a limo.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  We went to Times Square, and like I looked at my phone and it was like I had had like at least seven drinks at this point.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Why? What do you do in Times Square?

• 9:34Speaker 01

  I don't even know.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  I don't know how they do it.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  I get over. I've already had a full day yesterday. They're all like, they still have Lola's over them. Their mascara is running down their face. I'm like, oh my God, I've literally entered the gates of hell.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  What, well, like what else should we talk about? You're depressed?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Did you just glitch?

• 9:52Speaker 02

  No, yes, you're depressed. You're going on meds. We love Casey.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Love Casey. When is she going on tour?

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Did she announce that yet? I think she did.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  I'm so sad that we missed her weekend two.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  I would like to go to weekend two next year.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Was weekend two better than?

• 10:08Speaker 01

  It always is, and it's like.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Weekend two is always just a little more chill.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like I could do some chill next time.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  No, I had so much.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  But like, I will say, like, the only issue about Coachella for me is like, I can barely do one day of Coachella, let alone two. Like, I will never make it to day three.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  Ever.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Okay, well, love you. I'm so excited for this episode. I'm deft gonna listen to this one.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Real quickly, Julia and Peyton tried to give me shit for not watching their vlog the other day.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  Wait, I didn't try to give you shit. I just said, "Watch it," because you're gonna think it's really funny.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  You don't watch my show.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  I know. I actually thought about that as I said it. I was like, "Wait, he doesn't want to watch?" Because I don't...

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Do you have extensions in right now?

• 10:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I was trying to tell you. It's so long.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  They look really amazing.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  Right?

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Your dog died.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  Oh. He did.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Are you okay?

• 10:57Speaker 03

  Well, that's definitely adding to my depression.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  I think so, too.

• 11:00Speaker 03

  It definitely is.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Well, maybe he died and his dying wish is for you to get on meds.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  Maybe. Maybe.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Can I say, though, every time I'm worried about a situation, you handle it so much better than I think you would.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  No, I handle the situations that don't deserve to be dramatic very poorly, and I handle very dramatic situations well.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  Julia, me too.

• 11:19Speaker 03

  It's just us.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  It's just us. We're the same.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  We are. As much as we don't want to be. I love you.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  I love you.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  You were saying, though, right before this, you were like, "I am so scared," because you were overanalyzing it, that it's boring. You were scared of it being boring.

• 11:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  There's actually this quote that I wanted to read you that I think just describes... It was a review of Golden Hour, but it describes, I think, how you write and your storytelling just entirely. And it says, "Casey Musgrave sings simply about the world as if she's the first person to notice, and you're the first one she's telling."

• 11:54Speaker 03

  Oh, I like that.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think that is, to me, the beauty of your music, because you describe these feelings with such simplicity that are so hard to figure out.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I think, I find a lot of awe in the human experience. And for me, I do feel like all the inspiration that I find is usually within the most mundane. It's in the everyday. For me, it's not this grandiose, far-reaching, poetic sense of something. It's like, it always hits me in the most banal, mediocre life moments. And I feel like that's where so much of the beauty lies, you know, of being a human.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  What song do you remember that hit you? Do you remember a moment that was so mundane that hit you, and you were like, "Oh, this song came out of that"?

• 12:48Speaker 03

  I mean, so many of them. Like... I feel like I write my best when I've had a lot of time to just like live life and you know what I mean? And I'm not really like on any kind of like time, time constraint. I can just kind of like live life and let the ideas like build back up. But you know, like, oh, what a world. Like, that was one of them.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  He breathes deeply.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  I have to. Where were you when that idea struck?

• 13:12Speaker 03

  I mean, I think I was probably somewhere in Nashville, but I just remember like I was like falling in love. I was in this place of extreme wonder and like, you know, rose colored glasses. And I was also, I think when you fall in love, you like, you're, you see the world in this kind of refreshed, new, beautiful light again. You know, you're like, oh, my God, there's like, you forget, like, there's shooting stars out there. There's jellyfish that glow, like, there's like bioluminescence. Like, we live in a trippy world and we just get so here, you know, that we kind of forget the magic exists.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Oh, what a world, indeed.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  It's a crazy world too, though, y'all.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, it really, it really is. But I think you're, like, you make real fucking music. And I don't want this to just be me complimenting you.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  No, I think that it should be. I have three beverages now over here, which I do love that we both were on the creation train this morning.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  And you know what? It came to me. I was like, right, literally right before you came, I was like, oh, I'm just gonna order one. And then you walked in with one and I was like, and that's

• 14:11Speaker 03

  And that's on?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  That's the mundane.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  But your song that really, I would say, like, describes that for me as happy and sad?

• 14:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel that all the time.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Cause I never knew how to express that feeling. Everyone, I would be like, everyone would always be like, you, look, look around you. Life is so good. I'm like, I can't, cause I'm, I'm so scared of it becoming bad again and having it hurt that much harder.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  Or knowing that like happiness is fleeting, the good doesn't last forever. Like even the most beautiful thing dies or, God, it's so like morbid sounding, but it is true. And it's hard to not get caught up in that when you're experiencing such a high, cause you're like, oh, is there a low that's gonna be next?

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's real. And sometimes that happiness, it's like almost so beautiful that you're like, Like it brings you to tears because you're like, do I deserve this? You know what I mean?

• 15:03Speaker 02

  That's how I feel all the time.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  How have you learned to understand that you do deserve it?

• 15:09Speaker 03

  Oh, I mean, therapy, I think getting older, like you realize you're like, I do deserve this thing that I really am working hard towards, or I do deserve to be in a really reciprocal, beautiful relationship, you know, like, and I can't like, I can't like stand in that and say like, I deserve that. I do. I feel like, you know, I mean, everyone does though, you know?

• 15:31Speaker 02

  I feel like your twenties, at least for me right now, are a lot about like reconciling. I don't know if you've felt the same way.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Like reconciling with like-

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Like who you were, how you grew up.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, totally. It's that exploration period of like, or you're examining kind of like the building blocks of who, like, or yeah, who you are and why, why are you like that? You know what I mean? Or maybe like how your parents are, or like, how your childhood was. And it's your chance to like examine that and um, I think like, make changes or like, you know, decide is that, is that actually how I, do I align with this?

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  I wanted to talk to you about Follow Your Arrow, because that was actually my first introduction to you when I was in seventh grade.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  Oh, cute. Oh, wow, damn. Okay. Where's my cane? I definitely need the eye cream at this point.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  No, I heard it and I never heard, I just had never heard a country singer sing about gay people before. Like when you put, was there any hesitation to put that out? Or were you just like, fuck it?

• 16:34Speaker 03

  I mean, mostly just like, fuck it. It's interesting because I wrote that song. That was like, I think the last addition to that record. And I remember bringing it into the label and I was like, so here's the album and I'm adding the song. And yeah, I mean, they were just definitely like, yeah, no, this um, this is gonna, you're gonna be roasted for this. Like it's gonna go down in flames and here's all these reasons as to why like you shouldn't put this out. And I just, it honestly made me want to do it even more. Like, don't tell me that I should, you know what I mean? Like, that's reverse psychology, but um. Yeah, I was just like, okay, well then if it goes down in flames and it's be it's for something that I really truly believed in and you know, like when you really look at the bones of country music like it's

• 17:16Speaker 03

  it's a it's a genre built on storytelling, you know, it's real stories and um you know, at least that's my favorite kind of country music, so I just feel like it's a natural fit that it would include like just parts of real life like like the like historic country music talks about stuff that's like it's typically sometimes left of center like talks about heartbreak and just things that are you know what I mean like can be a bit painful or very real, you know what I mean? And so I'm kind of like, this is country to me to like talk about

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Gay shit.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Gay as hell shit. Yeah, pretty much.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  But that was, and I think that that's what you've done for a lot of people, you've really helped translate. I feel like for a long time, people thought country was this very almost sort of specifically

• 18:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Very Straight. Thing. And you were kind of like, no.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, country can can hit somebody like in their heart and you don't have to be like living on a farm and like, you know, to appreciate it or whatever. Um, and I feel like one of the best compliments that I've ever received like in my entire career is that like, you know, someone said basically what you said of saying like, I always felt like country music was this party that I could you know, I grew up in a small town and I always identified with country, but I just felt like it was a party that I was never invited to and hearing you your music made me feel like I was finally invited to the party and I was like, okay, that's that means so much more than any like, you know, radio chart number or like, you know, um but yeah, the song ended up getting banned by country radio.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Did it really?

• 18:48Speaker 03

  And yeah, I'm like, it's just funny and like I saw something about this the other day about um you know, there was an article about like liberal and more the the conservative people in country music or whatever, and I think people tend to forget that The idols that we have from country music, like we're thinking like Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Loretta Lynn, like they were outlaws, like they, they were liberal. Like Loretta Lynn was out here singing about birth control when it was like a very controversial taboo subject, you know what I mean? I think we just forget that there is a large part of country music that we love that is very outlaw and that means speaking up for the marginalized like subjects and things, you know?

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, a thousand percent. And I think you've done that so beautifully.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  I feel like I've heard you talk about this before, but like, how do you deal with like writer's block and stuff? Cause I feel like you've, I've heard you speak about this before.

• 19:44Speaker 03

  I just like, I really try not to force it. Um, I mean, and the writing process is different for every single person. Some people probably write like every day, like I can't even imagine that. But like in my phone, I have in my notes app, I just have like a running little basket of little ideas and song titles and things like that. And so like, I feel like as I'm living life and kind of, you know, just getting to experiences, like just being human, then naturally I'm just inspired, oh, that's a song title or like I see something somewhere or like a thought comes to me and I'm like, okay, that's a twist on a, a thought or a lyric or something. And I put it in my notes app and then I just kind of come back to it later when I have time. Like right now I'm promoting a record, like it's, you know, there's all this inertia around that. I don't really have the creative need to start a new song.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  I have some ideas though, that I'm like, I really want to write that. And they'll just, it's almost like it finds the time to be written or something.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Are any of the songs on the new record, can you remember a time where you wrote it down in your notes app and it became then the song?

• 20:43Speaker 03

  All of them. Yeah, all of them. I mean, and I, so I have this never ending, like note document that goes, I mean, it's years long and occasionally I'll email it to myself. So if I'm like, I'd suck to lose this, you know? Um, but yeah, I mean, I have references to all the ideas in there at some point, you know? They usually start out as a song title and then, yeah, and then I figure out what is the, how can I flip this or what is the angle of this idea?

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Right. I loved Coyote.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks. It's kind of a creepy little number.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  It's creepy. It's creepy. What is, what is it? Cause I'm like listening to it. I'm trying to figure out what it, what it's about. What is it about to you?

• 21:22Speaker 03

  A large part of, of healing, getting older and kind of getting into my like thirties is figuring out, why am I attracted to emotionally unavailable people? Like emotionally avoidance, like if you know about the attachment theory.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  I'm vaguely familiar.

• 21:39Speaker 03

  It's like, you know, we all for different reasons have these attachment styles that we're kind of like, we were hardwired with like from childhood or whatever, like there's several different types, like secure attachment is the goal, right? But you can be anxiously atta-, an anxiously attached person or an avoidant attached person. And that kind of dictates how you kind of move in relationships and how you, the choices you make, the people that you choose. And um, it's just interesting, like typically I would say when I'm like not secure, I'm, I like err on the side of the anxious attached person. And so I've typically chosen people that are avoidant. So there's always like a chaser um, in a relationship typically in these imbalances. There's like a power struggle, right?

• 22:24Speaker 03

  And someone's like the one pulling the other person closer, trying to advance the relationship like, you know, desperately wanting that closeness. And then the other person feels, the avoidant feels suffocated by closeness.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  And the anxious attachment is the person pulling.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  And the, the anxious attacher feels like, oh my God, this, this person's gonna leave, you know? Or I'm gonna do something and it's gonna ruin this relationship or whatever. And it's funny because the closer that the people, the, the two get, it just like the, the pattern just keeps going and the other person starts pulling out because they're like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna feel claustrophobic in this. Like there's a whole thing about it, but like. Like somewhere along the way, that person was hardwired with the thought that like, um, to be really loved and to be close means that I lose my autonomy. I lose my freedom and so I don't like push it away. You know what I mean? And I've always gone for people like that. And so, you know,

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, so you're okay.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  So this is like,

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Sometimes I'm like, I'm slow.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  No, I think I'm just like,

• 23:23Speaker 02

  No, no, no, you're, you're speaking biblically and I'm like, no, no, no, you're,

• 23:27Speaker 03

  No, no. Well, it was a long ass point. The Adderall has not kicked in yet. But like, I'm circling to like, I saw a couple of coyotes on my property one day in Nashville, which is strange to see him in the daytime. And I saw there was two and I was like, cause I was like, what is that? And have these little, these knocks, I got my knocks out and I was just like, oh, those are some coyotes. And I was like, okay, that's a song title. There's something in there. A coyote is like this beautiful creature, but they're like, and they kind of edge on like cities edges. They like, they're, they're nearby, but they don't want to get close. And if you get too close, like you might get bitten, you know what I mean? Or whatever.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  And so it just kind of reminded me of like, being in a relationship with someone who is like terrified of closeness. Basically, I'm just like likening this, it's, it's sort of a metaphor, you know what I mean? Like being in, you know, seeing this, um, this person that you're attracted to and that you want closeness with, but, um, you know, they just, they just kind of can't give it to you, you know? And so that's just kind of where the song came from. But in a sense, in general, just kind of examining like, what is it in me that's picking that type of person?

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  Several times over and like, why? Like, why am I attracted to that? You know what I mean? It's, there's so much to it. It's really interesting. You should read.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Have you?

• 24:43Speaker 03

  You should try reading.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  I really should. I got 12 pages into my book last night and I fell asleep.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  I tried.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  That's honestly the best. We were talking about like taking supplements to sleep. Fucking put a, read a page.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  We're about to say LaRazepam?

• 24:58Speaker 03

  No, we're just, just read. I feel like it'll put you, put your ass to sleep so quick.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  It really did last night. I was like, oh babe, it was giving me anxiety. I was like, I gotta put this down.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  Put the book down.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Put it, put it down.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  That's better than a doom scroll though.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Doom scrolling is the bane of my existence.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  But like, Yeah, it's like, let me just ingest all this shit right before I close my eyes. Yeah, great idea.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  It wakes me up, though.

• 25:21Speaker 03

  In the middle of the night.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  It like, it like, no, like when I'm doom scrolling, like, I try to do it as like a form of reading, but it just, I'm never gonna sleep.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  Oh, no, I get in the craziest wormholes at night. Like, the other day, I was like, oh, yeah, I really should go to bed. Let me look up all the different types of aliens there are apparently in the universe.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Do you believe in aliens?

• 25:42Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I really do.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Okay, can you tell me why? Because my mom is like such a skeptic and I'm really similar to my mom, I would say.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  You are skeptic as well?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  I believe, I like take what my mom says, kind of, like, I really like, when she says something, she says it with such like,

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Conviction?

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Conviction, that I'm like, oh, you're right.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  So, do you feel, in general, this is interesting, I want to know, like, do you feel like the world is, life, existence, is where you can all see, where you can see it? Or do you think that it extends past that? Is there, is there a supernatural side that you feel like exists that you can't see? Or you, do you feel like it's more so just, this is what it is, it's right here in front of us, or it's not?

• 26:25Speaker 02

  I think I'm like, this is what it is, because I can't wrap my head around the fact that there be more to that.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  It's like, hard for me, I'm such like a facts person.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Like, literal.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like, well, what do you, and I, and, like, do you believe, like, when there's like flying saucers over, like, do you believe those are alien ships? Like, that I-

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Um, I guess you haven't seen the Instagram I just created for my weird sightings.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  You, oh, you believe in this?

• 26:51Speaker 03

  I'm done.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  No, like, okay, let me just check the follower count, because, guys, there's, apparently, there's a lot of believers out there, um, too. So, night before last, I was like, I, because I really do have really interesting, unexplainable things that I see all the time for years. Um, and I was like, I'm gonna friggin' start an Instagram page, um, for this. So, I did, and- It already has, it has 25.1 thousand followers. It's just funny that we're talking about this because I literally the other day, there was all these like, all these news pickups about the fact that I had posted these videos of these orbs that are lights, these really strange lights that me and my, one of my managers saw on a plane the other night.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  And um, I'm just seeing weird stuff all the damn time. So it just like finds me, I swear. But also the more you look for it, the more you see, you know? And I feel like once I started noticing it, it was like probably around like 2012, it just,

• 27:50Speaker 02

  Took off.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  I've seen the craziest, like if I really did tell people like all the things that I've seen, they'd be like, she's, lock her away, like she's batshit.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  What's the craziest thing you've seen?

• 28:00Speaker 03

  I mean, lots of different, um, like unidentified flying things. Um, and it started in Mexico, like back in like 2012. Um, and I was with other people, um, was not high, was not drunk, nothing. Um, and that was just this whole crazy thing that I, I can't even wrap my brain around like what it could have been. Um, and then literally four days later, I was back at my house in Nashville, me and my boyfriend at the time. And we were like watching Family Guy, it was like 10pm and we were out on the screen porch. And I, out of the corner of my eye, kind of above the neighborhood, I saw these two massive balls of fire that were like, it looked like flaming suns. Like at first I thought, oh, is that something on fire?

• 28:45Speaker 03

  But I like, we ran down the street and looked and um, yeah, they were just two silent, massive balls of fire that were just sort of slowly silently kind of floating, flying like, above the neighborhood and we like followed them to the end of the street and then they just disappeared. And I was like, okay, like,

• 29:04Speaker 02

  And you had someone with you to be like, I saw that shit too.

• 29:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that same person was at the first sighting, um, and then since then it's just been like,

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Oh wow.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  The weirdest stuff, yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  Like, uh, I was thinking about this one yesterday as I was flying in, but um, I, one time I was flying into California, I can't remember if it was LA or if it was, like what city it was, but it was daytime, I was flying solo, I was like by myself. I mean, it was on a commercial plane, but there was, and there were other people, but it was like not a packed flight. And I had the road to myself. And I was just like looking out the window and maybe about 10 yards away from the plane just floating like out there was I can just describe it as like it was like a cobalt blue color like spinning top. It looked like a spinning top. And it was maybe about the size of like a small car. And I was like, is anyone else seeing this? Like it made me feel insane.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  And it was just, just, there was no lights on it or anything. It was just a spinning blue top. And I was like, what the hell?

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Do you have a photo of it?

• 30:02Speaker 03

  No, I didn't. No, a lot of these things I don't have photos of. Um, I think I was just like, when you see something like that, you're like, holy shit. But the other night I did catch a bunch of videos of the ones that like me and my manager Bobby saw on this plane ride.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  And they were unreal. Like there's just no way you can just like

• 30:20Speaker 02

  There's no way we're alone.

• 30:22Speaker 03

  I just, I don't know. I mean, I'm just constantly like, I don't think that we are alone. I think that would be kind of wild and also kind of maybe a little bit sad. But um, I'm just constantly torn. It's like, does the government know? And they're just hiding it. But also like, do we trust anything the government says anyways? And they're gonna use it as an obscene files distraction anyway. So like, but I'm like, but do they know? Because the public would, there would be a mass freak out, religion would collapse. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like they got

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess so, right?

• 30:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Did you watch The Age of Disclosure?

• 30:52Speaker 03

  I haven't.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Okay, I haven't. I watched

• 30:54Speaker 03

  What is it?

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Okay, so it's this movie. Um, I think it's on Amazon and it's with a bunch of ex-government employees. So my dad, my dad is like you. And he's like, and he's like, it is the most insane thing. And then my mom is like, they are disgruntled ex-government employees. So that's how my mom views it. And she's like, they, like, they're just angry that they like, aren't working with the government anymore and are like, you know what I mean? So I'm like, oh, who do I believe? I guess I have to watch it. But I'm so easily swayed.

• 31:26Speaker 03

  I mean, the problem is, is that now AI exists. So even if I had like the most clear, amazing, high-res footage of like the most unbelievable thing, nobody would believe it anyway. So like, I kind of have this thought that like, was AI floated out there? If the government does know some shit and they like, knew, or I don't know, we're aware of think more things coming to light. Was AI pushed out to just kind of keep us confused? So the real stuff could hide amongst the fake stuff and nobody knows what's real. You know what I mean?

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Oh God, that thought is so scary of like not knowing because AI becoming so it is becoming real, real, real.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  How has that impacted the music scene for you?

• 32:12Speaker 03

  It hasn't gotten into my world at all. I mean, I don't fuck with it, but like also I'm kind of like, does anyone actually think AI music is good?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  I feel like part of the whole specialness of music is that it came from a human's experience, right? And it's relatable that way. Like anyone can churn out or any machine could churn out like ear candy that is like

• 32:36Speaker 03

  engineered to be like liked, but I don't think it has the same value, right? Because it, there's no struggle behind it.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  No machine can churn out Golden Hour.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  Period.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  No machine could ever churn out Golden Hour.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  Ever.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Like it that, oh my God. Can we talk about Golden Hour?

• 32:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  That album has like really gotten me through some shit. But not even just romantically, just living life.

• 33:06Speaker 03

  It was a comfort album for you?

• 33:08Speaker 02

  It was just like, this is, it almost to me feels like a bible for how to live life.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  Oh, I love that.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  And then pairing it with Deeper Well as well, which I also.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Like.

• 33:22Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  I'm about to go through my Saturn return.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Oh, hang on.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  What? Oh God, what do you mean?

• 33:28Speaker 03

  It can get rough, but you'll be better for it.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  How was your Saturn return?

• 33:34Speaker 03

  It was rough divorce. I moved houses like, yeah, it was intense. It was, it was intense. Um, I really do think there's something to it for sure, but it does make way for, I think maybe more authenticity, more room kind of clearing, you know? Um, so.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, but just have a Xanax on hand or something.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  I actually did want to ask you about your relationship to weed.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  Cause I thought you were just gonna say, I did want to ask you about your relationship to Xanax. I, which, do you have one? I mean, sometimes you just need a chill pill.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  I really do.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  Like it is.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  My brain is so all the time that I need something to just shut it off.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Maybe try meditation.

• 34:18Speaker 02

  Do you meditate?

• 34:19Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I, I do sometimes, but not as much as I used to do it twice a day, but.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  I've been journaling.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  That's good.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Journaling, and I've been journaling to golden hour.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  Really?

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Oh, I love that.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause it makes me like, think about like the simplicities of life and like finding, just like writing, cause I feel like I journal to write about things that I would normally forget. I'll never forget interviewing you this day, but I'll, or talking to you this day.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  But I'll, I won't, like, there are moments where I'm like, and then I asked her about aliens, not knowing that she had just created an alien and like, it's like little things like that to journal.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  The, the nuances of like all the moments that, yeah, you kind of skim over later.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. I've been journaling for years for that reason, because I feel like when I'm an old ass lady, I'm gonna be like, wow, I had an interesting life.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  You do have an interesting life.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  I do. I really do.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  But I did want to ask about your relationship with weed because on Deeper Well, you said, I used to wake and bake.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Roll out of bed.

• 35:25Speaker 03

  I know. It was, girl, it, yeah, I don't know why at one point in my life, I was like, let me get as high as possible. Before I do anything.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  I feel that, I, I was that way. And then I took a nine month break and now I'm back on the wagon.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  You are?

• 35:39Speaker 02

  I am.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  I kind of am too, a little bit, to be honest.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Okay, really? Because rhinestone'd?

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, rhinestone'd. Which you can get rhinestone'd in a lot of different ways, you know, pick your poison. But, um, yeah, like, it's funny, everyone was like, she doesn't smoke weed anymore. I was like, I never said I didn't smoke weed. I'm just saying I don't hit a gravity bong right when I wake up. That was made out of a two liter and you put it in a water bucket. It's, I don't need to, whatever, it's fine. But, um, but yeah, like here and there, I've been kind of like dabbling again. Maybe not, I'm not, these people that do like the shatter and the wax and say, damn.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Well, I don't even know what you just said. What is that?

• 36:13Speaker 03

  It's so, I, it's just a method. It's a form of. Weed, it's like a condensed, very like concentrated form and it will like, it'll send you.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  It will send you to like, yeah. Um, but anyways, yeah, but just like a chill, like I'm a one puff girl.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Really?

• 36:32Speaker 03

  We're taking one puff and then if you cough, oh, you're.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  You're done.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  It's, I'm going inward.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  I'm gonna go, I'm gonna get non-verbal after that. So I just, you know, a little bit, let's, you know, just take the edge off. I think it makes me nicer.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  I think it makes me nicer too, but then I think the come down of it, I reach a little bit of mania.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 36:53Speaker 02

  And that's why I had to stop because for these like 20 minutes, I would have these like grandiose ideas and like, I like those ideas being like literally like the dumbest things in the entire world.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  What if they were like, kind of genius?

• 37:06Speaker 02

  To me at the time they were, but then the mania, I would get so paranoid. It caused such paranoia that I was like, I need to stop.

• 37:13Speaker 03

  It does. Yeah, I don't like that or anxiety. I'm like, just anything, let's mitigate the anxiety, anything to just get that out.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Right, right. And that's what, yeah.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  But yeah, anyway, a little bit of dabble.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Have you written any of your songs while high?

• 37:26Speaker 03

  Um, little seeds of ideas come from, come from being high. I think I wrote some down the other day, actually.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  I would love to hear this.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  Oh, we'll see what I have.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  Don't hold your breath. Um, well, one of the things I wrote down is, but do aliens believe in me?

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Really think about it. That's it.

• 37:48Speaker 03

  And then I also put.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 37:50Speaker 03

  Suffering.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  I feel like I'm in the presence of greatness.

• 37:53Speaker 03

  But then, this is another one I wrote down the other day. I had a dream that I wrote a song called, I Wish I Was My Boyfriend.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  I Wish I Was My Boyfriend.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Oh, please keep going. This is like, I feel like.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  I do want to write a song though, and it's like, it has yet to be written, but I think the breaking news has finally broken me. I think there's a song in there. Anyway.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  That, yeah, there's a song in there.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  Um.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Wow, that is really beautiful.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  But I have a shitload of things in here. Doesn't mean it's, should all be said, but. Um, maybe there, oh, this was one. I kind of feel like, I feel like maybe, I don't know if this is more of a girl relatable idea, but like, writing about a friend breakup.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no. I, I relate to that.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  There's something about like when.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  Like you, when you pivot in a friendship and you know, you have to let go of a friend. Specifically, I feel like in female relationships, I feel like female friendships get, they're so intimate. Um, that it's almost sometimes more, and not in a sexual way. It's just, it can be more intimate than, um, like a romantic relationship with like your boyfriend or whatever, like.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  I don't know, friendship breakups suck.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  It's almost like you're losing a sibling in a way or something. It has that same kind of feeling. It's like, um, yeah, like a soul sister or whatever. That's, it's, it's really not, not fun. I don't like that feeling, you know? But I mean, also friendships I think are meant to ebb and flow and, I don't know, people just kinda, it's not like on purpose sometimes, you know?

• 39:26Speaker 02

  Um, you actually have a lyric that I listen to sometimes when I think about my friendship breakups and it's like, uh, it's on Deeper Well, it's, it's uh, when things lose their shine. It's natural when things, it's, it's no regrets, baby. I just, I just think that maybe it's natural when things lose their shine. And for that, that lyric for me is kind of so healing, cause it's like, things are supposed to, you can't be shiny forever.

• 39:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  And I know for you, that might've been about a relationship or whatever, but for me, the way that I listen to it and I take it is I do listen to it and think about like friendships past. And.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, and you never know, things can circle back around with people, like sometimes you just need to pause. If it's, don't force it, you know what I mean?

• 40:13Speaker 02

  I think it's hard. I just think it's like lonelier than a breakup, cause friends are like family.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  There is something, there is something different about it and that's, I think just what I wrote down on my phone is like, there, I, I don't know that I've heard, maybe there is a song out there, but like a song about breaking up with a friend. You know what I mean? Like, I'm sure there is, like every song's written, but.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  There might be, but there's not a Casey one and I, I need that.

• 40:35Speaker 03

  Okay, well, we should co-write it.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Oh, don't, seriously, seriously? Cause I will follow up.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Cause I will follow up and you'll be like, why the hell?

• 40:44Speaker 03

  I'll be like, God, why did I say that? Why did I like offer that?

• 40:47Speaker 02

  No, before we started recording, we were talking about the transition from dry spell to back on the wagon.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  And Casey was like, someone commented, oh my God, like, cause back on the wagon is not what you would think it's going to be.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  I saw some comment that was like when the track list came out and it was like, in my mind, it was some girl. And some girl was like, um, wow, can't wait to see the transition from dry spell to back on the wagon. And I was thinking, oh, they're gonna get got. And that girl was you.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  It was me. It was literally, I remember commenting that being like, mm, mm, like, I remember being like, I ate that.

• 41:22Speaker 03

  Can't wait for them to see. And then, yeah, that was literally you. I had no idea.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  It was, it was me. So what is back on the wagon about to you? Cause you say he's back on the wagon.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Break it down for me.

• 41:37Speaker 03

  Sure. Um, basically, I think it's speaking mostly to the character that I have been in my relationships in different forms, like throughout the years. And I've been this like hopeful girl when I pick somebody who like, you know, everybody's on their own healing journey, but like, I'm just tired of being like, I think a lot of women pick men that they have to like, helping the man improve their life, like in so many different ways. And like, for once, I'm just like, can I just get an equal? You know what I mean? And I've been the girl a lot where I'm like, hey, I can like, make your life better and I can help you and I can do this.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  And, you know, uh, the guy's like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna change. Like, I'm gonna, you know, and I'm, I'm just like this. Maybe it's not being naive and being young and just being like, they're gonna change, just kind of being like in love with someone's potential. And being like, oh, but they're gonna be better guys. Like, he said he's different now. He's back on the wagon. He's not, you know. Drinking anymore, doing this anymore. He's, he's gonna be, he's, I swear, like, he's totally changed. He's, he's back on the wagon, guys, like, and it's like-

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Your wordplay is some of the most clever in the fucking game.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Because you would think back on the wagon means he's drinking again, but you're like, actually, he's on the mend of being a better person.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  I swear, he's back on the sober wagon. He's back on the, I'm, I've changed wagon or whatever. And it's like, I've been that girl so many times. It's like, girl, he's not, he's not, you know, he's, this is who he is right now. For the most part, people are just who they are, you know? Unless they just really wanna have a personality overhaul, and that's really hard.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Do you believe people can change?

• 43:17Speaker 03

  If they really, really want to. But they have to really want to. And it has to come from, it can't be someone else's idea.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  But do you think, like, the basis of who that person is?

• 43:28Speaker 02

  My grandma always says no.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  Too much. What, that they-

• 43:31Speaker 02

  That you can't.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  That they can't change.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Like, who they are is who they are.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think grandma's right on this one. I think mostly. But I will say, maybe sometimes, like, there are these hard lessons that you need to learn sometimes in life. And sometimes you gotta, kinda, maybe gotta hit a rock bottom to really see the gravity of like, oh, fuck, alright. Like, I gotta change. Like, you, if you don't hit the rock bottom, you may not see that you have to change. But most times, someone is gonna be who they are. So like, when they show you a first time, fucking pay attention. If they show you a second time, just no.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Are you good at cutting people out?

• 44:08Speaker 03

  I have gotten that way. And not to be like ruthless, or like, you know, sometimes I feel like, in this modern age, people can be too much like, I'm cutting them off. Like, they, you know?

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Her.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  And I think people have to have room to be human also, because nobody's perfect. But like, if, you know, if you're not being valued, well, like, why are you sticking around somewhere? You know what I mean?

• 44:34Speaker 02

  And I think your music does a really, really good job of showcasing that.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  Thanks. I mean, like- What a wild trip it is, right? To be human and to be alive and like, we really don't know if there's anything else after this, you know? I like to believe that there like in the, that there is a lot to it that we can't see, but I just think there's so much magic in actually being like, right here and being alive. And like, um, you brought up Deeper Well, but like Heaven Is, the song on that record, is kind of about that. It's like, you know, people talk about like a heaven, you know, or this, like when I get to heaven, it's like, and it to me, it was like, in that moment where I was in my life, it was like, no, heaven was, you know, um, the walk I went on this morning, or like, you know, the flower that somebody picked and gave to me that I put in a little vase of water. It's like, it's wearing my favorite like tattered t-shirt.

• 45:22Speaker 03

  It's, you know, it's like heaven is in the moments where you're actually, you're still alive for, you know?

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I also feel like you can hear it in other songs as well, like The Architect.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Where you're like, what does this mean? Please someone tell me.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, can someone tell me what's going on?

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. God, wow.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Thank you, Deep Pop, for sponsoring tonight's episode. Um, if you noticed, I've been wearing more vintage stuff, which I've spoken about. It is because I've been using Deep Pop to help curate my own personal style, which I feel like I've always been lacking. For tonight, I am wearing Casey Deeper Well merch that I found on Deep Pop. Like, I love, I always talk about it, but I love merch so much. Like, I love old merch as well, like old artist merch from like an old album or an old tour. And Deeper Well might not be old, but it's not the current album, so finding stuff from past eras, I think, is so cool. Deep Pop is a fashion resale marketplace where personal taste has real value. It's the easiest and most rewarding place to sell fashion.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  You can list your first item in less than five minutes. It is so easy. There's also no seller fees, which means more money in your pocket. It is really, it truly such an authentic, vintage...

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Shopping experience online. This shirt like that I bought from Depop means something to me and it obviously meant something to the seller. So it really makes for such a personal experience in shopping. And like, you can use other people's personal styles and passions to help curate your own, which I think Depop is just incredible at. Also, I've been talking a lot about a spring reset and like, there's no better place to hone in on your personal style for a spring reset for clothing than Depop. Cause at the end of the day, clothing is art and art is made by people. So like, I know it sounds cheesy, but these people selling this art, like it obviously means something to them. So it really is so helpful in like, I know when I'm buying something on Depop, I'm buying it because I like it, not because it's just for sale.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Like I'm buying it because I've scrolled and I've looked and that's the thing that I like and I want it. Download the Depop app now and start listing today. Thank you again, Depop, for sponsoring tonight's episode.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Thank you, Poppy, for sponsoring tonight's episode and this season. As you guys know, there is no soda in this world I love more than Poppy. You also know, my favorite flavor, besides Shirley Temple, is always cherry limeade. So that's why I always have one with me. Poppy is a better for you soda with prebiotics and five grams of sugar. And that's why Poppy has become such an integral part of, I feel like, everyone's lives. I see it, it's so crazy seeing the rise of it for the past few years. Cause I use, it used to be, I used to have the hardest time finding them in convenience stores and I literally find them everywhere now. And I just feel like that's a testament to how good it is. Also, I am like on my own personal fitness journey.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  So having, being able to like have soda and not feel bad about myself after, which is something that like, I've just struggled with personally, like is a game changer for me. Like I die for Poppy. Like if you know, you know, when I was posting videos back in 2023, like 17 times a day, I was making up random jingles for Poppy and just like, it was like, so the fact that they're like now sponsoring the podcast is just, it feels so correct. Poppy, soda's back, but so much better.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Well, Casey, what are you therapist about today?

• 48:58Speaker 03

  What if it's nothing? I don't know.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  It can be nothing. It doesn't have to be anything.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  Pissed? Like as in I'm pissed off?

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  What's yours?

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Mine is missed my workout.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  And I'm trying to like, be like, it's fine, it's fine, it's not fine.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  You actually want to know what my real one is?

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  It's so shallow. You're gonna be like, literally, like, end the interview. I posted an Instagram dump.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  And? You forgot one picture.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  I just like, didn't feel like it did, it did what it needed to do. Louise was like, this, Louise said to me, this isn't giving what you think it's giving.

• 49:34Speaker 03

  Isn't it, isn't it weird how some just don't?

• 49:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  And you're like, ew, what was that?

• 49:40Speaker 02

  I, it's like, I love, I, I am also pissed about the fact that I'm entering this era of wanting to curate my life again.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  And I felt like I was out of that for so long. And I feel like I'm entering it, and I, like, where it's like, I want to be seen as cool. I'm like, cool boy.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  Well, maybe the curation is the, in the uncuration.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  It is.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Does that make sense?

• 50:05Speaker 02

  It is. And like, I found, and I was that for so long, and that's when I connected with the most amount of people, is when I didn't care about what I was posting.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  When there wasn't a curated.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  But now I'm back to curating because I feel attractive.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Wonder what that is?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  It's, it's that I feel physically attractive again, and I, I like my, I like my body, and I'm like, I-

• 50:23Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  It, it, it is awesome, but I'm, I'm having trouble not-

• 50:27Speaker 03

  I'm starting to like mine more too.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I'd like, I'm, I'm, I'm starting to fall into that trap that I once fell into, where it's like, once I like my body, or I like my appearance, now I have to behave a certain way, or act a certain way.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Behave, or misbehave?

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Like, do you know what I mean? I'm like, it, it all stems from like, this deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper insecurity that I have, that it's like, maybe I- I don't know what I'm trying to say. It's like, I'm falling into this era where I, I, I'm happy to present myself physically to the world again, because I felt for a while very insecure and unattractive. And in, in presenting myself,

• 51:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  these new insecurities kind of come about again that are like, oh, but, but make sure you look like this, make sure you look like this, make sure you look like this. And I think that's, if that makes, I think that was a lot of word vomit, but if that makes sense.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  No, but it's interesting that you're saying in a roundabout sense that the newfound security is also for some reason giving you insecurity.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Yes. I don't know why.

• 51:36Speaker 03

  I wonder why. Well, hmm, maybe because like, you're feeling yourself and you're feeling the urge to like, put yourself out there again. But with that does come some opinions, right? I don't know. And is there like a fear of that?

• 51:52Speaker 02

  I think it's a fear of like,

• 51:54Speaker 03

  I'm your therapist now?

• 51:55Speaker 02

  No, please. And honestly, this is like my, my dream. Um, I think it's like, I think I'm so, I think I'm still insecure is what it is.

• 52:06Speaker 03

  I mean, aren't we all? Jesus Christ. For me, it's a rotating, it's like a rotating door of what are you gonna feel today? Some days I'm like, yeah, that bitch. And then some days I'm just like, I'm the fugliest

• 52:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:18Speaker 03

  person I've ever fucking seen. And I like, it's body dysmorphia kicks in, you know what I mean? It's real.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  It's real.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  No, I have that. Like, I literally have that.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  It's like, I think it's, I'm not as, I think what it is, is that the base I thought I've created is not as secure as I thought. It's like, like, it's literally like playing Tetris. Or not Tetris, what's the, Jenga, Jenga?

• 52:41Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  It's like Jenga, it's like,

• 52:43Speaker 03

  Anxiety game.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, the base that I thought I had isn't as powerful as I thought, because all it takes is one night out where I'm feeling good. And then a man will be like flirting with me and then I'll see him flirting with someone else. And then everything just completely one eighties.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  I think you're anxiously attached.

• 53:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 53:04Speaker 03

  I think you're an anxious attacher.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  What is that? Okay, can you explain?

• 53:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Please.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Let me break it down.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  No, no, it's really interesting. There's a book. And the psychologist studied, um, probably gonna butcher this myself. But um, they studied like the way that it could be like even how much your mother or your caregiver, whoever like picked, picked you up and loved on you physically like as like how much did that happen or were they not in the picture or like there's probably so much psychologically that goes into it like where you left to cry it out versus being like there's probably so many, you know what I mean? And how your parents showed you love, how you responded to shaped how you crave love and give love, you know what I mean? How you give and receive and so

• 53:53Speaker 03

  like the goal is to be a securely attached person. So no matter like how the other person is regulated or not, like you're standing firm and your secureness in the relationship, knowing that like what however that other person behaves has nothing to do with you. It's how it's, it all has to do with them, right? Wow, and that's the goal. And that's the goal is to stand firm in that, you know what I mean? Um, but every usually most people sway to one side or the other. So either anxious or um avoidant and it's um, it kind of just speaks to like how you view connection, I guess. And so like an anxious attacher um

• 54:35Speaker 03

  just really wants that closeness and they have this deep seated fear that they're either not good enough or that the person's gonna leave or um the relationship's just gonna like fall apart, you know what I mean? And so they hold on tighter and they maybe they control more or they like, you know, um maybe they create issues that aren't there, you know what I mean? Like, hey, you didn't call me back. Like it's worst case scenario thinking they didn't call me back for six hours. They must hate me. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's how I feel. You know, did I do something wrong? Did they hate me? Whatever? And then the um, the flip side of that is the person who feels very like suffocated, kind of trapped or claustrophobic by deep connection. Maybe they have a deep fear of being rejected if someone really sees who they are. So they push. I do think that there is a hybrid, which is fucked.

• 55:23Speaker 03

  I don't know how to help you. But yeah, but normally it's interesting to avoidants don't usually get into a relationship together. Because there's gotta be, there's this like, almost like this mathematical need for like a push and a pull in a relationship. And so usually it's the anxious, the pursuer, and then the person that's backing off. And it makes the other person pursue more and then, and then it just kinda like does that. But yeah, it's a really, really an interesting theory, you know what I mean? And the book is really helpful and it speaks to like, if you're anxiously attached or if you're avoidant, like here's kind of like how you can sort of like move more towards like a securely attached. You don't want to be too far on either side.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  I feel like I hear this a lot in your music, the one you're telling me about this. I'm like, I'm thinking of songs, Give or Take Her.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, Nothing to Be Scared Of.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  Oh, Nothing to Be Scared Of.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  I know, that one hurts.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  No, that one for me, when I first, I remember actually exactly where I was. I was in that back area, smoking a joint.

• 56:21Speaker 03

  Love.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  With my best friends and the chorus to Nothing to Be Scared Of, or Nothing to Be Scared Of came on. And we all just like took a moment.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  Come to me and drop your bags.

• 56:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  And I will help you unpack them. Like I've never, that, cause that's the goal. That's all I want.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  We all have the baggage, like we all come to relationships carrying luggage from previous places. And yeah, you just gotta be with the right people that will help you go, okay, you have this, well, I have this. Let's, let's put it away, you know what I mean? And it was me just really trying to convince the person that like, subconsciously, it was a song kind of for, to them in a sense, saying like, um, to an avoidant person, saying you, um, you have nothing to be scared of. Like it's, I'm here, like I'm not, you know, like love is not something to be fearful of. And then that person broke up with me over text, so. It meant, it was all for nothing.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  You know what the?

• 57:18Speaker 03

  But the songs.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  The songs.

• 57:19Speaker 03

  Were there, so.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  Wow. I like love hearing you talk about. The story behind those songs.

• 57:26Speaker 03

  A lot of real life.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  It's eight, but that's the magic of you. I like really feel like I'm in the presence of greatness right now.

• 57:33Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  No, I, and I, I'm sorry. I really don't want to make you feel weird or anything, but like, I really feel like I'm in the I like genuinely feel like I'm in the presence of like one of the greatest songwriters of my life of our life because or you speak your experience without fear of, and I think, did that change for you a little after Golden Hour, after you felt a little more seen publicly?

• 57:59Speaker 03

  It's, that's an interesting question because like, you know, I make all the music because it makes, it does something for me. It's therapeutic for me, right? And it's just like a cherry on the, on the cake that like other people connect with it, right? And then something happens like album of the year and out of all the music that was made, I mean, for whatever reason, it, it won that title and that was extremely life-changing for me. And it can be freaky because, you know, you can go, you're at, you're at a fork in the road there. When something like that happens because you can either go, okay, like I feel validated in the fact that when I made Golden Hour, it was unlike any other record I had previously made. It was very different than same trailer and pageant material.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  And I felt like I was kind of going out on a limb a bit, like with the style of it, but I felt like it was really special to me. And I had no roadmap other than just like what made me feel really good. And then it ended up really connecting. And I think there's a lot to what makes an album like really land. It's like a lot of time and play, like right time, right place. The climate in the world just supports it for whatever reason. And you can go, okay, I feel really validated that people really connected with this. I'm going to keep doing that. You know what I mean? I'm going to keep like.

• 59:18Speaker 03

  My only compass needs to be what makes me feel good and what feels authentic to me because ultimately that's what's gonna keep connecting, right? But it can also admittedly give you a little bit of like, oh shit, like now people, do they really expect another golden hour?

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? And I think it's interesting because, you know, golden hour happened. And while I was at like this really high, like, high point in my like creative life, I was at a really low point in my personal life, my love life, you know what I mean? Coming out of that and going through a divorce and then writing Star Cross, which was like a record that I had to make as a creative. And I was in this really intense, kind of visceral place in my life and the music sort of reflects that. It's like, there's a lot of like electronic elements. It's kind of harsh at times. It's very layered and affected. And I think a lot of people were like thrown off by it because they really wanted another golden hour. That's what they were expecting.

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  And it was a total pivot. And I would like to think that I have the fanbase that if they, maybe if they don't like totally love the album that I put out, maybe they can at least respect the fact that I didn't just turn the same goddamn thing in or try to recreate it because you can't recreate that magic twice. It's gonna sound fake. You know what I mean? You could probably get similar, but it'll just eventually start sounding like you're creating the same thing over and over and you're gonna sound like a pigeonhole. Like, it's not gonna have that fresh, that life to it, you know what I mean? And so, anyway, justice for Star Cross. That's all I'm saying.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  I love Star Cross.

• 1:00:51Speaker 03

  I love Star Cross too.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  Did you feel that, was that pressure really hard for you to deal with though? Like after everyone was like, okay, golden hour, part two, here we go? Or were you like?

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  It was annoying to me that people, I don't think they got it. I really don't think that they got Star Cross, but I also was just like, I really don't care. I mean, it, I fucking loved making that album. And there was so much like beautiful cosmic synergy through me and that, and that album and making it and just the imagery and where I was at and the storytelling and then like the whole, the movie that I got to, the Star Cross movie that I got to make with it. I mean, it's something that I'm really proud of. So like, I don't really care if you don't get it. Like, it feels good to me, but I just think it's more so about what people were expecting. You know what I mean?

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  But like, I really love when an artist takes a chance. And if I don't love- Their, you know, new record or whatever. I'll catch them on the next one. I'll be like, whatever, like, you know what I mean?

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  Wow, I love that you just said that. I feel like in today's culture with Twitter and Stan bases and and how fast the news cycle goes.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  People like, kind of, um, your, what is it? I want to say they, they make your worth to them or your importance

• 1:02:13Speaker 03

  equal to how much they connect with your latest creation.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Speaker 03

  And that's not really like what it should be about, I feel. But they put so much weight onto like, did I connect with this? She's, I'm, I'm, I'm off of her, you know?

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Right, and it's like-

• 1:02:30Speaker 03

  She fell off.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  But it's you fell in love with that person because that person wrote music as a person.

• 1:02:35Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  And like, you just so happened to-

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  To converge at the same time.

• 1:02:39Speaker 02

  Converge at the same time, yeah.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, and relate. And like, it's okay that you don't on this one. Maybe you'll love the next one, you know? Yeah, it's interesting.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've never heard it laid out like that, but that is really what I think is going on in our-

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, like if you think about like, I'm trying to think of an example, just like, any, like Weezer. I'm just trying to think of like any band that I've like loved for a long time or like, I'm just trying to think of like any, like Patty Griffin, any songwriter, whoever. Like, they might put out a record and not be, I might like really fucking love it. And then like their next one, I might be like, it's not really for me. But I can still respect who they are and respect that, hey, they tried something different.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  I think a perfect example is Brat by Charli XCX. It came at-

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  The perfect time.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  The perfect time. It was just the perfect storm of like, this harsh, I feel like we were so, and I think we were trapped by COVID longer than we thought.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  Oh, are we? Yeah. I, I know. I'm like, was that a wormhole? Like, did we, I saw some theory, it was like, did we all actually die during COVID and this is hell now?

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Sometimes I think if I'm driving in a car and I almost get hit by a car, there's a parallel universe in which I did get hit by that car.

• 1:03:50Speaker 03

  There probably is.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, right?

• 1:03:52Speaker 03

  No, it's trippy.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  It's trippy.

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  We probably don't want to get on the subject of quantum physics because then we'll be here forever and you'll be like, I'm never, ever gonna talk to her ever again.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  No, I'll, I just won't understand. I'll have to go sentence by sentence. Where are the tell me what's wrongs? They're over by you, Casey. It's the envelope right there.

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, that's right. Let's look at these.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Do the honors, do the honors, please do the honors. I wish you could stay here forever.

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  I know, sleep over.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Sleep over with Casey would be the best day of my life.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Honestly, that'd be a fun, like, series or something. Or like, not series, but like, a little, like...

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  You've now sprouted an idea.

• 1:04:29Speaker 03

  So I'm staying.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  We're gonna bake cookies, we're gonna Brady's with his hair.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  Yes!

• 1:04:35Speaker 03

  We're gonna play board games, smoke weed.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Smoke weed.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  We're gonna do a Ouija board... You're probably not into that.

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  I'm into whatever you are into.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  Okay, so, do I read these, or do you?

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  Please.

• 1:04:49Speaker 03

  "My close friend homewrecked..." Homewrecked is in all caps, by the way. "My close friend homewrecked a relationship with one of my close friends and is confused why I won't stand up for her. It's a town scandal. Um, we've been friends for years, but this may be the end for real. As someone in a relationship, I don't want to defend her and condone the behavior. Am I allowed to drop her? I feel like she needs a little help since everyone's ganging up on her, but it's not a good look, you know?"

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  I think you might be the problem in the sense that you're viewing this friendship as a look thing. Like, you're like, it's not... She's saying, like... What do you think?

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  I've been friends with some homeworkers before. It's a conflicting place to be in. And you're... Cause you're like, "Ooh, why are you making bad choices like that?"

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  But just because they made the bad decisions doesn't mean they need to lose you.

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  Hmm, yeah, that's true. Maybe they need some truth teller... But see, yeah, maybe they need some truth tellers. Here's my question, I guess, is can you be truthful with this girl? And really, like, tell her what maybe she doesn't want to hear, you know? Cause that's a real friend. Not just... I understand not just walking out because somebody did something embarrassing, but if... Maybe if this is a pattern for this girl, or whatever, then I think it does speak to a larger character. And like, do you want to be friends with someone like that?

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  But also, I guess that's her business, right?

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  It's so not black and white, it just... We need more context on her friendship. Cause she's probably feeling, "I'm in a relationship." There's probably that underlying feeling of, "Would she homewreck my relationship?"

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah, like, what is her moral... Where are her moral standards?

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Like, how far could she go?

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  But I would say it's very hard to drop someone... Not hard, it's very...

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  When someone's at their lowest, sometimes I do believe that you kind of just have to let them hold on to you for a second as they get their standing.

• 1:06:41Speaker 03

  That's true. Like, maybe sometimes you have to give someone a place where they can maybe be their shittiest version of themselves and still receive the love, you know?

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:54Speaker 03

  But at the same time, I mean, there's a line for everything, right?

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:59Speaker 03

  That's a toughie.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  That's a toughie. I prescribe Home Record by Somber.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  Do you have a song of yours that you would have them listen to?

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  Maybe not Dry Spell.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  Not Dry Spell.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  Maybe Deeper Well.

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's go inward.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:16Speaker 03

  Let's go inward.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  Let's go inward.

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  Okay. Do you want to read the next one? Okay.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  "I'm so hyper fixated on being in a relationship as I'm 29 and never had a boyfriend, me either, but I'm 26. I put myself out there, but I'm so insecure that I always just overcompensate and make a fool of myself or shut down entirely. What can I do to take the pressure off this ticking clock?"

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  Well, I do feel like, it's a cliche, but it's really, really true, that the moment that you really kind of stop caring and you like, stop wanting something so bad is kind of usually, like in terms of relationships and love, it's kind of when it finds you.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  That's like, kind of what happens to me, is like, when I feel like when I'm not looking for it at all, then like, there it is.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  How do you stop looking?

• 1:07:58Speaker 03

  Um...

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  Is it fake it till you make it?

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  I think maybe just focusing on yourself and your interests and like, I feel like if you, um, you know, put yourself in positions to where like, you're, I don't know, whatever it is that you like to do, like, you just keep pursuing you, you're gonna maximize your chances of running into someone that is very like-minded and that you might find a lot of common ground with, and it won't feel like this like, forced... Thing that you're like not sure of, you know what I mean?

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:28Speaker 03

  But yeah, nobody likes a try hard like that's like I feel like Someone can spot that from a mile away as someone who desperately want and it kind of gives like vibes of like, oh, you know?

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  You know what that reminds me of is your song on your upcoming record, Loneliest Girl.

• 1:08:42Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  It does, or Space Cowboy?

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But like Loneliest Girl specifically, it's like I made a lot of peace during this album timeframe. I made a lot of peace with like being on my own and being single and it was the longest single period that I've ever had. And I used to be kind of like really terrified to be alone. And I dropped that with This, I was like, wait, it's kind of awesome. Like I kind of started to really prefer it. And just as I was really starting to like prefer it is when I like met somebody and I was like, okay.

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  And then you're kind of conflicted there because you're like, fuck, I've been really valuing my Like sovereignty, my like freedom, my Me.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and now I have this.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  And now, yeah. But I think after you have been like single for a while and you find the value in that and the confidence in that. Then you're able to kind of just Put things back in your life or put things in your life that like really only add, you know what I mean? So, I don't know, what would you say to that person?

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  I am that person.

• 1:09:53Speaker 03

  Okay. You wrote that card.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  I wrote, I wrote it. I would say for me,

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  I think it's different Being gay and I think

• 1:10:03Speaker 03

  Why do you think it's different?

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  Because I didn't get to have Those experiences of crushes in high school that the way most straight people would.

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  You mean being like closeted and being

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  No, no, just being gay. There weren't many. It's like you're in a class, I was in a class of 60 kids and you know, it was girl like boy, girl like boy, boy like girl.

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  And for me, it was like, well, if there's one other gay person, well, you should obviously go for them. And I think

• 1:10:29Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  Having

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  And you were like, not about it.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  Well, it just wasn't for me. And I think that's a tough feeling and I, I have a group of gay guy friends That have changed my life.

• 1:10:39Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  And I think finding For me, the way that I have really like there like that has there that therapies myself is surrounding myself with Will, Travis and Charlie, who are my best friends and like being like, I feel this way, like, do you feel this way too? And they're like, yeah, I also feel that way.

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  I'm just like feeling not alone in the fact that it's okay that I haven't had all the experiences that my girlfriends have, because I'm a girl's guy. At the end of the day, like, I was raised around women, like, all my best friends are girls. But to have those gay guy friends for me has really been like.

• 1:11:12Speaker 03

  Probably pretty validating.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Very validating, and it's made me more confident. Because I think like also, my gay guy friends are like, you would, they're like the most beautiful people in the entire world to me. And like, for them to also be like, I feel that same way, it's very validating.

• 1:11:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I totally, I totally get that. I'm glad you have that.

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  My husband is friends with two girls from childhood who definitely hate me, and I also definitely dislike them. Not to mention, one of them used to have a fat crush on him. I brought this up to him subtly, and he told me he'd cut them off if I really wanted to, but I don't want to be the reason anyone loses friendships. What do I do?

• 1:11:48Speaker 03

  Why do they hate her? I guess they're just being...

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  Have you ever experienced that?

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  Not really, but it'd be really hard to not be like, fine, then cut them off then.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:58Speaker 03

  Fine then. I don't know, I mean, like, I don't know, what would you say to that, like?

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  I would say your husband is putting you in a tough place.

• 1:12:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  By being like, if you want me to, I will.

• 1:12:11Speaker 03

  He offered it.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Just do it then.

• 1:12:13Speaker 03

  It sounds like he offered it, and so maybe my question for him is, it doesn't sound like the, um, relationship, his friendship with those two girls, which, is that weird? Anyway. His, it, it sounds like it wasn't that stable or worth keeping to begin with, if he was so easily able to be like, well, I'll just cut them off.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  Well then, okay.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Maybe he likes the validation from one of them that they used to have a crush on him.

• 1:12:38Speaker 03

  He loves being in the middle of it. It's an ego thing, for sure. Okay, so wait, he's the problem.

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  He's the problem.

• 1:12:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  That's, that's what we did.

• 1:12:44Speaker 03

  Glad we cleared that up.

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  I've been talking to this guy, and he's been stealing my underwear. I've caught him twice now. The first time, he was joking about taking them after we hooked up, and then when he left, I looked on the floor and realized it wasn't a joke. We texted about it, and he was like, I wasn't joking. Then I was like, okay, that's maybe semi-normal, IDK, I'll look past it. But he did it again. I don't know. For me, I'd be like, that's sweet.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  What is she getting out of this?

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  I don't know. But for me, I'd be like, oh my god, he wants my underwear.

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  He can Venmo her.

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, like-

• 1:13:13Speaker 03

  I don't know. Like, okay, $300 each pair.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  What, like, what are we? This has to be mutually beneficial.

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  Right. I, for me, I'm such like a weirdo. I feel like that I'd be like, oh my god, Louise. Like, he keeps taking my underwear.

• 1:13:27Speaker 03

  But like, is it weirder if he asks you if he can have them? Because I feel like probably the thrill is like, taking them. You know what I mean, for him?

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  I'm not speaking for personal. But yeah, I'm like, I don't... It is weird, but I... I don't want to kink shame.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:43Speaker 03

  I don't want to... Yeah, but like, what, what is she getting out of it?

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  Thousand.

• 1:13:47Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  This is a beautiful one to end on, I think. "I love singing and songwriting, and I've done it my whole life. I'm getting to a point where if I want to continue, I need to make some things a reality. It's very clear that the people in my life don't believe in me or just flat out don't care, which is fine, but it doesn't help. I'm really considering giving up on this and going back to college for something else, but I can't help but not let this dream go when I think about moving on. Any advice?"

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  It sounds like they're not that good.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  You think?

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  Um, chase the dream, girl. No, I'm just kidding. I really don't know what to say.

• 1:14:23Speaker 03

  I don't know what to say, like, can we hear the music?

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Right, we would have to hear the music.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  We would have to hear the music, um, but like, who's not caring? I mean, I don't know, like, I didn't really consider if I was even good or not. I just never had a backup plan. I was just like, I'm fucking doing this. I didn't go to college. I was like, no, like, it just was in my mind. I was like, this, no, this is what I'm doing. And I just kind of dealt with everything like along the way, so like- I I was really lucky, I will say, like in having my family's support from a very early age. It was like, almost too much. It was like, oh, let's load up the minivan and go state to state. And like, then my whole childhood kind of became about performing. Um, so I kind of have the the opposite thing, which I'm really glad that I had it now. Um, because it's like quite literally made me who I am.

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  So that would be really sad to feel like you don't have your, you know, your people's like support. But I mean, if it's if it's like a burning desire that you have, I mean, you have to.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  See it through.

• 1:15:23Speaker 03

  You gotta, you gotta, I think like you have to give it your all, knowing that you did. So you know what I mean? Like, you can say, I fucking.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  I fucking tried.

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  This important thing happened to me. Or maybe it just like, shape shifts along the way. And if you have to have a different source of income, I mean, there's a lot of people who have, um, there's a lot of creatives that have some form of a job that pays the bills that maybe isn't soul fulfilling.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:15:50Speaker 03

  And then like they find a way to do that soul fulfilling thing. And maybe it's not the thing that's the breadwinner, but it's like, but it's there.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  Be a starving artist.

• 1:16:00Speaker 03

  But there, yeah, eat ramen. Um, yeah.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  Well, can, before I let you let you go, can I ask you what your favorite song or maybe a lyric?

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  Can I ask you what your favorite song or maybe like a favorite lyric that you've ever written is?

• 1:16:22Speaker 03

  Why are you doing this to me?

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  I I just, I I have to.

• 1:16:24Speaker 03

  That's a toxic question.

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  I know, but I have to. Something you're most proud of.

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  Oh, man, I relate to all of them for so many different reasons. I mean, like, I don't know why Hook Up Scene just came to mind. I like really, really love that song so much. I think ultimately, maybe Slow Burn, I think it feels the best.

• 1:16:45Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm at home in my dead center whenever I'm playing that song, always.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  My favorite line from that song, obviously, is,

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  "The sun's going down, but in Beijing, they're headed out to work." What do you mean by that? Me and Manny, who I work with, debate it every single day.

• 1:17:05Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:05Speaker 03

  It's not like a deep-coded thing.

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  This one isn't.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  So what does that mean to you?

• 1:17:12Speaker 03

  It literally just means what it means. It just means they're going to work. And I'm over here, like, the sun's going down in Tennessee and, like, over there across the world, people are like, it's a different day, and they're, like, going to work and starting their next day. And, like, I'm over here, and it was very, like, stream of conscious. Like, I wasn't putting a lot of thought in, like, it just, like, kind of came out, you know what I mean? Because I was just picturing, I was sitting on my porch in Tennessee, and picturing these people around the world, like, doing their thing over there, you know? It's like the world just keeps turning, and, yeah.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  And you're all right with a slow burn.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  And I am all right with a slow burn.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  And, oh, God, I love that song. That album, "Everything You Do," is just brilliant.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:17:55Speaker 02

  Casey, what did we learn today?

• 1:17:57Speaker 03

  Oh, don't homewreck.

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  Don't homewreck.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  That was one. What did you learn? Anxious attachment.

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  I learned about the attachment styles, I learned...

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  About UFOs.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  About UFOs.

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  I learned that a podcast can be extremely comfortable and really fun.

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  That's what you learned?

• 1:18:14Speaker 03

  You can ask my team, I don't really, like, do a lot of podcasts.

• 1:18:17Speaker 02

  And you had fun doing this?

• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm, like, not leaving.

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  I really don't want you to go.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  I told you, we're having a sleepover, so...

• 1:18:23Speaker 02

  I'm so glad that that was your takeaway. I feel... My takeaway was, like, meet your heroes, because they're going to tell you exactly what you thought of their, like, exactly how I envisioned how you envision your work is how you see it.

• 1:18:41Speaker 03

  Well, that makes me feel good, because it makes me feel like my vision was received, you know?

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:47Speaker 03

  Um, and that, I fucking love that.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  I think you were put on this earth to write and sing songs. And I'm so grateful I got to talk to you about it.

• 1:18:55Speaker 03

  Guys.

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  I really, I like really am. Like, I think like, you are just, I could talk about how brilliant you are for hours on end.

• 1:19:04Speaker 03

  I mean, are y'all hearing this?

• 1:19:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:06Speaker 03

  He said it. He said all of it.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  And I think your new album, Middle of Nowhere, is so, so, so incredible.

• 1:19:15Speaker 03

  That makes me feel good, because I was like nervous, I've been nervous, I'm like, is this boring?

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  No, it's not boring, but that goes back to the quote that I read you at the beginning, which is that you make the things in life, I think the most beautiful art is when you make something so unextraordinary extraordinary.

• 1:19:34Speaker 03

  Mmm.

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  And that is what you do with your music.

• 1:19:36Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  And you do such a wonderful, incredible job of doing it.

• 1:19:42Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. I feel so uplifted right now, like, no one can crash this high.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  No, and as they shouldn't, because...

• 1:19:49Speaker 03

  I'm gonna be coasting on this for weeks.

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm so glad, because you deserve it.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Your music does that for a lot of people, it's timeless. At the end of the day, it's timeless music.

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  I love that compliment.

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  It's, it really is.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  Thank you, because, I mean, you know, the hope is that, like, something that was really important to you lasts and still either matters or feels really good in ten, twenty years, or however long, you know what I mean? Like, it's really tribute to think that, like, the things that you create are gonna outlive you. You know what I mean? Isn't that creepy?

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is creepy. Do you think about that often?

• 1:20:22Speaker 03

  Sometimes I'm kind of like, that's so weird, like, when I'm dead and gone, like, there's gonna be like a little trace of me out there, you know? Weird.

• 1:20:31Speaker 02

  But it's so timeless, and that's why it will be there.

• 1:20:34Speaker 03

  Well, thank you.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  And stream Middle of Nowhere, out May 1st.

• 1:20:40Speaker 03

  Like and subscribe.

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  And do it all.

• 1:20:43Speaker 03

  Mwah, bye. Thank you.

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  Love you, Casey. Thank you.

• 1:21:03Speaker 04

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.