Session 149: Billy Eichner

I feel so... fucking old. Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Billy! https://www.instagram.com/billyeichner/?hl=en Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:42Speaker 01

  His new memoir, Billy on the Street, is out now. Please welcome to the show the legendary Billy Eichner.

• 0:48Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  Therapist.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Therapist.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  We meet at last.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  We meet at last. You know, we actually met on the worst night of my life.

• 0:58Speaker 02

  Oh, was that the worst night of your life?

• 1:00Speaker 01

  So far.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  Okay, you're young. It'll get worse.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  I know you don't think it will, but it will.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  It wasn't terrible, though.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  But the way that you know exactly what I'm talking about.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Oh, I guess that's a good point. But we met at a fun location.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  That was so fun. I mean, that was, I had the time, I had a ball there.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Yes, that party.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  That party was quite fun.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  Quite fun.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Quite fun. Do you prefer LA or New York?

• 1:23Speaker 02

  I'm a New Yorker. Like you, I grew up here.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  I don't mind LA. I like LA.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Did you spend, when you were, well, I guess, most of your career has been here, right?

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Almost everything I've ever shot, shot here, except Parks and Recreation. And American Horror Story was in LA.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  American Horror Story, oh, yes. Were you a Glee fan?

• 1:48Speaker 02

  I did like Glee, but I was older already. I'm much older than you.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  How old are you?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Forty-eight.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  You were like, oh, you really are.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Well, I was just, because we had [BLEEP] on the show, and she was like, "Your twenties suck, your thirties are great, your forties suck, your fifties are great."

• 2:07Speaker 02

  You know what? That is, I am relieved to hear that, because I agree.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  And I'm in my forties, and, uh, yeah, it's different than I thought.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  What's different about it?

• 2:17Speaker 02

  I thought early forties was actually, just felt like, an extension of my thirties. And I think in your early forties, you're kind of wanting to prove to yourself that, like, "Nothing's changed."

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like, "It's still like my thirties." Which it was. And then, mid-forties and up, feels different. You've lived a while, so you can look back on all the things that went right and wrong. And you've got time ahead of you, but you really need to make use of that time.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:45Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  So time starts feeling fleeting.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Yes, you can feel time more, a little bit. You feel the pressure of time.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Ooh. But did you think you felt that way in your twenties, but you actually look back, and you're like, "I can't believe I felt that way"?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  I think I really wanted to be successful, and was just kind of worried about, like, "Oh, God, is my life gonna be okay?"

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  But I didn't feel that, "Oh, I had to be successful by thirty, or else it was over."

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  I felt like I had time. I was good at romanticizing the struggle of being, uh, trying to be a professional artist or actor, or whatever I am.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Right. Professional artist and actor.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Does that make sense?

• 3:25Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  How old are you?

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Do you want to guess?

• 3:28Speaker 02

  You're twenty-seven?

• 3:29Speaker 01

  I'm twenty-six.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Twenty-six.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  But I turn twenty-seven in a few weeks.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  You're so young.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I, well, lately, I've, I've, I've felt young. Lately, I've felt young.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  You are young.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  I didn't know you started Billy on the Street when you were thirty-two.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Well, it started before that, in my twenties, in my live show.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Which you didn't see, and very few people saw, here in New York. Before YouTube even existed.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was a stage show, right?

• 3:52Speaker 02

  I had a stage show called Creation Nation, where I, that's where the Billy on the Street persona developed, live on stage. And then I said to my friend who was directing the show, who I went to college with, I said, "You know, people in the audience seem to like when I do this guy, and I'm getting, like, very angry about pop culture. And I'm bringing this kind of irrational urgency and intensity to pop culture topics." I said, "What if we go out on the street, and I do this to people?" Because I grew up in New York like you, so I know, you know, you're, you're on the street in New York, you're walking around with blinders on, right? No one's really acknowledging other people. And so I thought, "What if I break that rule, and force someone who's, like, rushing to

• 4:34Speaker 02

  the subway, or to get on the bus, or go into daycare, or their job, or the gym, and just make them talk to me about whether or not Kate Winslet would win the Oscar?"

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  You know, like, bring that amount of intensity to these pop culture topics. That's how it started. And I would cut together videos with my friend Jamie to show on a screen. We would project them on a screen, uh, that this theater I performed in, in New York, had a screen, and, uh, that's before YouTube even started. I think the first Billy on the Street style video I made was in 2004.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  So I am how old at that point? Uh, twenty-five? Something like that? And then the TV show, it took about seven years of, of kind of pounding the pavement, literally and figuratively. And then I, Billy on the Street becomes, it starts to go viral around 2010, uh, and then the TV version happens in 2011.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  So you, but you, that persona in Billy on the Street, that, you don't think that's you?

• 5:32Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Okay, so that was interesting for me to read. I thought that was like...

• 5:36Speaker 02

  I know, people still think this.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  I thought that was like you.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  It's surprising that people still, well, it's inspired by, you know, this kind of obsession with entertainment that I had since I was a kid.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  So it really was kind of satirizing my own feelings about entertainment. But I would, it's always so surprising to me, people for years, they're still, and I've done many other things, but they're still very surprised that it's not...

• 6:01Speaker 01

  I was surprised.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  I think it's because, um, the, what I grew up in is, like, everyone that go, like, when you go viral on TikTok, or it's for exactly as you present.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  It's you.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  It's like, I wasn't making up these characters or anything.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  That makes perfect sense, but I didn't grow up in a world of influencers. We didn't have social media. Like, what you do did not exist when I was in my twenties, right? And so, I'd, I was being a performer in my, you know, I, I went to theater school, I went to Northwestern, I came back to New York to try to be an actor on Broadway, and off-Broadway, but that really wasn't happening. And so I started writing and performing comedy as a way to just get an agent, honestly. Because people thought I was funny. And then onstage, I developed, I evolved into this character, basically. You know, to me, it was the same as, like, Sacha Baron Cohen doing Borat.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  But I wasn't doing a wacky accent, or putting myself in a wacky costume and changing my name. So I think that's another reason why people think it's me, because I always said, "I'm Billy Eichner, and I'm on Billy on the Street."

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Right? Um, but to, but I always thought it was kind of clear to most people that I was doing what we used to call, like, a shtick.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  You know?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  You know, we still have shticks.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  We still have shtick.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  I would, I do shticks sometimes.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Do you?

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Like, some, well, like, I'll, no.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Are you, do you feel that the Jake that we all see, is this exactly you?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Like, unfortunately, yes.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  So like, that's my, like, that's when I was like, "Oh, okay." Like, you know what I mean?

• 7:35Speaker 02

  I think that's a generational thing.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, "Oh, like, the, the Jake I present..." I mean, I don't know, Louise, would you say that this is who I am? Oh, she said, she said, "Let me get her mic." Extremely, extremely.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Okay, well.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Well, that's, yeah, yeah, for me, it wasn't. For me, I had created this character, but was using my own name. And the reason I kept using my own name, and because I didn't want to change my last name, or be in a wacky costume, is because I wanted people to know that these interactions were real.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  And I didn't want people on the street that I was going up to, because all of that is completely real, on stage. Like, we've never cast a person in advance, none of that has ever been scripted at all.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  You can tell.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's what, that's why it works, I think, why people like it. And I didn't want to go up to, to, to a New Yorker in some wacky costume, because then they're gonna know, like, "Oh, this guy's a clown."

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Right? I wanted them to think it's, I want, I'm have, trying to have a serious interview.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Do you have a favorite Billy on the Street moment?

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Hmm, there are so many I love. Um, I mean, when it got to the point where we could have other actors and people that I grew up loving on the show, I'm sure you've had similar experiences, like Amy Poehler, and...

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Didn't Seth Meyers do?

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Seth Meyers, and Will Ferrell, and...

• 8:53Speaker 01

  David Letterman did it, right?

• 8:55Speaker 02

  David fucking Letterman. That was huge for me, because I grew up watching him and worshiping him. And also, Dave, you know, at that point, had kind of stopped doing segments like that.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  His, his producers told me that when Dave did Billy on the Street, he hadn't done a, a segment in the field, as they say, in years.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  But in the eighties, when I would watch his show at 12:30 on NBC, before he even was out on at 11:30, he started at 12:30, he was doing a lot of on-the-street stuff with New Yorkers. Oh, yeah, he, he was way ahead of me on that. I, he was my inspiration, and I just loved his sensibility so much. So the fact that he was willing to be on the street with me, and I remember, we were walking around Chelsea, I think it had maybe been a minute since David Letterman was just kind of strolling around Manhattan at that point. And I remember, we were walking around Chelsea, and he was like, "Oh, that's the Chelsea Hotel." And I was like, "Yeah, Dave." Like, "That's the Chelsea Hotel." You know what I mean?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  We shot with Mariah Carey.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Oh, how was that? I love Mariah Carey.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  I mean, she's the best. She's so funny. And she's also a New Yorker.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  She is?

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Up until recently, Mariah actually lived not far from here. I don't know if she sold it yet or not. So she's a real New Yorker, and, um, she actually, when she, before her career took off, I think she lived in Chelsea, actually, when she was first starting to write songs. I think so. If you listen to her book, she talks about it.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  Her book is major. Amazing.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  I've never read her, what's it called?

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Listen to it, because she, it's called...

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Oh, she reads it?

• 10:26Speaker 02

  It's called "The Meaning of Mariah Carey," I believe. She reads it, she does it, like, impressions of Aretha Franklin, but, which are really, really funny. She does impressions, she sings a little bit, but she also talks about her parents in a very honest, very moving way.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Um, it's serious.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I don't read, so I appreciate your, your, your book is audio only.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  My book is audio only.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. Um, but yeah, Mariah shot with me, we once did a segment with Michelle Obama.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  I remember that.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  And Big Bird was there.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  And you didn't give her the questions before, though, they asked.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  No, we did not. That was my one stipulation, because she was the first lady at the time.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  They were still in the White House, and, um... You know, I think they were used to for things like this, you know, they all wanted to make sure she was prepared and all of that. And I said to them, I was like, look, she couldn't be out on the street with me for security reasons. That I understood, but I said, we cannot script this out because everyone's going to be able to tell. It needs to keep the spontaneity of Billy on the street. So I completely understand that you're the first lady of the United States and you're like a beloved figure to me and many others. But in order for it to work and to really breathe and be the show that you like, we can't plan it all out in advance and, and we did not.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  And it was amazing.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  And it was good.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  And then when did you know it was time to end the show?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  I, I did five seasons of the TV show, which is like, you know, we're doing 10 or 12 half hour episodes every year.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  And then mix that with all the stuff before it was even on TV.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Years of doing it before, whether or not people saw it, I was doing it.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  You know? And like I said, for me, it is a very much a character.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  You know, and I didn't start out really wanting to be a comedian. I liked comedy. I liked comedy movies. I liked comedy, I like sitcoms and things, but I wasn't someone who ever wanted to do a standup tour.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? So I wanted to carve out time for me to, to try other things, to try to get back to being the type of actor that I initially started out wanting to be. Like I said, I went to theater school. I went to Northwestern. It's kind of a serious theater program, you know, not to sound pretentious.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Isn't it the, it's that, that's the most serious one? That and Carnegie?

• 12:50Speaker 02

  There are other, I mean, there's Northwestern has graded a lot of things. It's obviously not just a theater school, but, oh, there's many. There's Juilliard and there's a million places. But, um, but you know, I took it very seriously. And like I said, I just wanted to do theater. And so I knew I could keep Billy on the street going forever. I also knew practically speaking that, you know, the world was changing.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Things, everything was moving online and I knew people were mostly watching Billy on the street from seeing the clips online.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  So I thought two things. Number one, I'm killing myself spending 10 months of the year to make half hour episodes and then people watch a two minute clip online. So I can probably still keep that going online and also open up my schedule to do other types of things.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  So that's what I did.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  There is something I want to ask you about. Madonna.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Love.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  I, I love Madonna as well. I've never gotten like a proper intro to her. First of all, are you happy with her album?

• 13:53Speaker 02

  It's so good.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  It is really good.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  It, it, now let me, let me ask you. Now I am the core Madonna audience.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  I'm a 48 year old gay man who, you know, when Like a Virgin came out, do you know what that is?

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Yes, no, but I get a lot, I get a lot of shit from,

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Oh, do you?

• 14:11Speaker 01

  For not knowing like the deep cuts. I, and I, but I, I'm brave enough to admit that I don't know them.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  It's extremely brave.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  I, I know, it's scary. It's really scary.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  It is. Um, I'm scared for you. No, I'm not going to give you shit for it. I will say in a way you're lucky. You have so much to discover.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  That's what, that's how I thought it, I viewed it as well.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  But are you, are you doing the homework and are you listening?

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Yes, like when I heard Lower East Side Girl, I was like, well, now I'm very interested in her life, like leading up to the Madonna that she now is today.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  By the way, Lower East Side Girl, that's a good cut to, not everyone mentions that off of the album.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  That I know.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  And that's a good one. It's a very moving song.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Yes, that, well, that one was my favorite.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Interesting. It's a beautiful song.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  I like, it's like, you know, well, cause I, I think when the Confessions 2 came out, I wasn't necessarily in the mood to dance.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Not in like a sad way. I was just like, I'm not in the mood to dance.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  You're just tired.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just like, like I just got like, when did it come out? It came out this summer, right?

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it came out early July.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  And I, I hope it gets, it, it really deserves like a bunch of Grammys and many great.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  You want it for album of the year?

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Madonna has never won.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  She's.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Am I wrong about that? Ray of Light won pop album.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  But I don't think it won album of the year.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  I'm pretty sure it did not. I'm a pretty diehard fan, but now I'm, I, I want to make sure I'm right.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  No, I don't think she won album of the year. I think I would, I think you would know.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  That is crazy.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Motherfucking Madonna. The world of pop music as we know it, it doesn't exist without Madonna.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Can you explain that to me?

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Oh, Jesus.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Please, I've just said, please, I, I want to know. I want to know.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  This is a big topic.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Like I know everything about Mariah Carey.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  So like, I love Mariah Carey.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  I love her.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  I know that there is, the two can exist at the same time, but like I have a hard time paying attention to multiple people at once.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  I have no excuse, actually.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  I love Mariah too. Um, they're very different artists. Um, Madonna, boy, you know, Jake, like my bar mitzvah, there was a life size, spray painted, airbrushed cutout of Madonna.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Like this is, this is deep for me. Um, Madonna, oh God, how do you sum up Madonna? Um, what do you want to know? Ask me questions.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  So.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  You want to know why she's so influential?

• 16:33Speaker 01

  No, I know why she's so, I know that she did things that people like weren't necessarily doing.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Like she behaved like a, like a rock and roll star, but she was like a pop girl, right?

• 16:43Speaker 02

  It's actually, there was something very punk about Madonna's attitude and the way she presented herself and how much control she took over her career and how, and her artistry and how unapologetic she was. Um, and as a woman, but really as compared to any artist, male or female. I mean, she, she had an incredible amount of self-possession and defiance and she coupled that, she, she, she did all of that in this pop dance genre.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Where those two things like had not really been melded together like that.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  I'm not sure I'm being as articulate as I could be.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  That makes, that makes perfect sense.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  She also really, um, I mean, for us as, you're gay.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, you identify?

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  As a gay man, you should know about Madonna because when I was growing up, you saw very few out gay men on TV, right? Even on MTV, which was considered like the cutting edge, right? And Madonna was, had a huge impact on my life because she surrounded herself without gay men and she turned dancers, her brother Christopher Chaconi, who designed two of her best, most iconic tours, who sadly died recently.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  That's who Fragile is about, right?

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Was that?

• 18:03Speaker 01

  That's who Fragile is about, right?

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, the song on her album.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  See, I know some of my stuff.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  You do, you do, you do. I'm being patient.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  But, uh, you know, she uplifted him. She really like, uh, I mean, she was the center of it all, but she surrounded herself and really empowered gay men. She loved gay men for their creativity, for their attitude, for their artistry. And she also really empathized with what gay men were going through. You know, she was really good friends with Keith Haring, you know, the famous gay artist who died of AIDS, you know? And then she becomes a huge force for fundraising and for raising awareness at the peak of the AIDS crisis. So for the most popular star on MTV, you know, arguably like her and Michael Jackson at the time.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  To be that vocal about AIDS and about standing up for, for gay men, um, and to help make gay men that visible. She has a documentary called Truth or Dare, which if you've never seen that, go and watch this, anyone watching this, you have a lot of younger fans, right? Young women, young gay men, or really anyone, anyone at all, but especially if you're, I feel so fucking old, but like, but, but especially if you're trying to be a young artist, she came out with a documentary called Truth or Dare in 1992. Now you might look at it and say like, well, that looks like a reality show. There were no reality shows.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Like this was like this no holds barred look at her behind the scenes while she put on the Blonde Ambition Tour, which was like.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  The clip when they were like, we're going to arrest you if you go out on stage. And she said, well, then arrest me.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Exactly. She was simulating masturbation on stage during Like a Virgin and in Toronto, they threatened to arrest her if she went on stage.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  In Toronto?

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Strangely, yeah.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Wow, I was not expecting that from Toronto.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Well, you never know. This was also like 1990. Things were a little different. Uh, oh yeah, the, the Vatican was trying to like excommunicate her from the church. I think she might've been, um.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  I know that like, see, I know, I know the kits and the classics and the big ones and like, you know?

• 20:10Speaker 02

  But it's, it's, it's an incredible documentary and I went to see this with my parents. I tell this story in my book, Mother's Day Weekend, 1991. I was very lucky as a gay kid at that time. I wasn't out, but it was pretty clear, you know?

• 20:24Speaker 01

  I mean, Madonna bar mitzvah.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  So my parents knew, they took me to see this documentary, Truth or Dare, the weekend it came out. I sat in between them and on screen, um, in one of the behind the scenes moments from the movie, they played Truth or Dare, her and her dancers, who were almost all out gay men. Now to even see that many out gay men on the big screen at that point alongside like the coolest music star of the era, in my opinion of all time, but especially of that era, right? And it wasn't about them being victims at all. And you're seeing their artistry as dancers and then they play Truth or Dare and two

• 21:10Speaker 02

  of them are dared to make out with each other, right? And.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  They make out and the camera like goes in for a close up. And I sat there watching this as a 13 year old kid in 1991 with my parents. And they didn't seem particularly uncomfortable with it. You just didn't see, I know now you can go on Instagram and you see like every gay guy and he's with his boyfriend. Everyone's naked and fucking all the time and like, you know, it's all so like, there's so much more visibility that it's like, it's like, it feels like what I'm describing happened on a different planet. But it was so rare to see that in those days. And so to see that, like, it just, um, it, to see that and just also know that my parents were okay with it. Like something like clicks in your head, you're like, oh, like, I'm cool.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Like, I grew up thinking that gay men were so cool. I was so excited to like eventually come out of the closet and be part of gay male culture in New York and in the world. And a lot of that is because like Madonna made it seem so cool.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like, um, I didn't, I didn't really connect shame with being gay. Some of that was the fact that I grew up in New York City. Some of the fact, a big part of it, and this is a lot of what my book is, it was the fact that my parents were so liberal and so supportive and encouraging of me as a gay person, as an artist, as everything. I was very, very, very lucky. So that's really a huge part of why I didn't have like the shame a lot of gay kids grew up with and still do. But also it was the artists I looked up to, right? They empowered gay men, they talked about gay issues, they surrounded themselves with creative gay men. And Madonna was at the top of that list.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's how I felt about Lady Gaga as a kid.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Of course, like Gaga for you, I was older already by the time Gaga comes around. But every generation has their Madonna.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Every generation of young gay men, young LGBTQ people, young women like has their Madonna. But it did start with Madonna.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  It, would you say it goes Madonna, Gaga, Chapel?

• 23:20Speaker 02

  I was literally just gonna say that.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  I really think, and again, I'm a 48 year old man, but like, I think from what I can observe, I think Chapel is the next, is carrying the torch. And there are others too.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Have you ever seen her live?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  I've only seen clips.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  She's unbelievable.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, from what I've seen, she looks amazing.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Have you ever met Madonna?

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Yes, I did a few times, but um, I did a Billy on the Street style video with Madonna.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Which I talk about in the book. It happened really early on though, it's a strange story. So Billy on the Street, the TV show started. And at the same time, Conan O'Brien had his talk show still. And he hired me, his show hired me to do Billy on the Street segments for his show. And the first thing they asked me to do was to go to the Super Bowl that year and cover the Super Bowl. And I was like, yeah, of course. I was like, I was desperate to do anything.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  But then I got off the phone with them and I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do at the Super Bowl? Like, I'm not a sports guy, like, what am I gonna cover, like, in Billy on the Street style? And then I realized the halftime show was Madonna. It was like a gift from the universe. Right, exactly. And I called up Conan's people, I said, okay, here's my take on the Super Bowl. We go to the Super Bowl, it was in Indianapolis that year. And I'm doing Billy on the Street, but I'm only asking people going to the Super Bowl about Madonna. I don't care about the game at all.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Right? Now, in the years since, this has become kind of a, an ongoing joke on Twitter and social media. Like, I'm only watching for the halftime show and things like that.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  But that joke wasn't being made as much, this is back in 2012, right? So kind of before social media as we know it, like really exploded. And they said, great, they thought that was a really funny idea. Make a long story short, I go to the Super Bowl, it's still on YouTube, it's a really funny video. It culminates with me, you know, I'm walking around Super Bowl Village, I'm asking people like, you excited about Madonna? And all these like old, straight, white guys are like, fuck Madonna, like, she's old. And I'm like, you're fucking old. And I'm like getting up in their faces, like really defending Madonna. And um, and then, uh, at the end of the game, Conan's team somehow got me like crazy access. Like access that like a sports journalist would get.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  And also, no one knows me at this point, very few people know me, so I could really get away with some shit. And I just had my big parka on and I looked like I worked for ESPN or something, you know? Like this like big guy, like, you know, at the Super Bowl, it's like, one would assume I'm interested in the game. Um, and at the end, I run onto the field, the Giants win the Super Bowl, actually, the New York Giants win the Super Bowl. And I run out onto the field, there's like confetti falling, the Super Bowl trophy's out, the players are crying. These like grown men are crying, you know, their families are running out onto the field. All the journalists are running out onto the field to interview the, the guys who just won. And I run up to the New York Giants and I'm like, hey, you know, congratulations, man.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  And they just think I'm a guy from, you know, covering sports. And they're like, thanks, man, it was a great game, blah, blah. And then I was like, did you see Madonna? Right, and I'm, I go up to all these New York Giants and ask them about Madonna, right after they won the Super Bowl. Right, and they were just looking at me, they were so confused. That I wasn't asking about the game. And one of them looks at me, you can go on YouTube and see that, one of them looks at me, he was like, oh Madonna? Uh, I don't know, I was in the locker room. Like, it was halftime and they didn't even see it. So um, her team, Madonna's team then, is made aware of this video. It went like sort of viral. It's a funny video. And her team was really excited about it. Because she had an album coming out and a tour starting, this was M-DNA is the album.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  By the way, and I knew that. And I knew that, I just want you to know that I knew that.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  I, I knew that.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  I appreciate that. But um, and then that started a conversation with me and her team, which ended up with me, her publicist reached out to me and said, um, she, she loved the video I made so much. And she said, if there's one thing I do, I'm getting you on camera with Madonna. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, just the email alone, I was like, oh, like, I, I couldn't believe it was happening. Even if it never happened, I was like, just this email, I'm gonna frame, like, I knew so much about Madonna. I knew her publicist's name from reading about Madonna for 20 years. Like Liz Rosenberg, no longer her publicist, but like, was for a very long time. And Cher's publicist, and Stevie Nicks, and a lot of people. So I was literally starstruck by Madonna's publicist.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  I would feel that way about Taylor Swift.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Totally, I totally get it, yeah, I to, yeah, yes. And so, and, and the publicist came through. And Madonna ends up bringing that tour to Yankee Stadium. I think she was the first woman to headline Yankee Stadium.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Solo at least. And, and they said, okay, you can ambush Madonna, she's gonna be onstage rehearsing her, her show, the whole, like, the afternoon before the concert. And I knew she couldn't be on the street with me, like going up to people, obviously. But at least this felt outside and like, you know, it felt like it had the spirit of Billy on the Street. And they said, like Michelle Obama's team, they said, we know you can script it, she knows you're coming.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Would you have scripted it for Madonna?

• 28:50Speaker 02

  That would be really hard, because it's, I really don't wanna script it. And here's the lesson Madonna taught me as a kid, Madonna would never script it.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  You know? And so I would try to hold on to that Madonna defiance if I could. It's a good question, though. Luckily, she was like, we don't want you to script it, we want you to do your thing. She knows that you're coming at some point, but then it's, we don't know what's gonna happen. You can say whatever you want and she's just gonna respond to you. And we did, I ambushed her twice during her rehearsal. And I'm onstage with Madonna and her dancers, her kids were there, they were very young at that point. I don't know about Lourdes, but Rocco was there, he's like a baby. And so we didn't script it out. And I am literally shouting in Madonna's face. Now, what was really hard for me too, is that I knew it would be out of character for me to start fangirling out about Madonna.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  That's not Billy on the Street, like, he gets angry.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Oh, so this is where the character.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yes, okay, okay.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And so I had to stay true to the persona, or whatever you wanna call it. And I was like, okay, I can't just like fangirl out at Madonna, I have to kind of keep that inside. And I have to find a reason to get angry at her, right?

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  And I had already seen the tour and I knew that on this tour, she was not performing Vogue. And so I shouted at Madonna and she shouted back to me and, this fucking great, yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Wow, and was, could, in that moment, were you like, I could stop for, like, doing this forever now and I'd be happy?

• 30:23Speaker 02

  It was strange because it was only 2012, my own show had been on, but on a very obscure cable network for, we had only had one season. I don't even think I had many viral videos yet. And so it happened strangely early, the way that it worked out, like, it was odd in that way, you know? I was like, this is all happening too fast. Like, this is like my fucking icon legend, like the most inspirational artistic force in my life. And I'm already meeting her, like, it's almost too fast in a way. But it was surreal and it was great. And um, uh, and I made her laugh too. Cause I think she's a hard laugh, you know, to get, she tries, you know, Madonna tries to stay real tough.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  And she did kind of laugh out loud, like uncontrollably at one point. And I, in my mind, I thought, I did it, I'm proud of that moment. And I have that, like, a screen grab of her laughing, like, I, I like printed that out and I framed it.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Oh, that's amazing. God, that's so awesome.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  It's pretty cool.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  And I also, you were very close with Joan Rivers.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Yes, I was.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Who I know, I know everything about.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  So that.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  See, now that doesn't track with your huge lack of knowledge about other topics.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  I know.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  I know. But Joan Rivers, my mom and I would watch together growing up.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  I watched Joan Rivers with my dad and my parents too.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  And I did, and I learned that she, you were about to quit and she sat down and basically told you not to.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Totally, that really happened. So Joan Rivers, oh God, this is a long story, I'm gonna.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  No, wait, I'm here for the long story.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Um, what happened was, I was doing my live show, the one where the Billy on the Street video started that I told you about. And at the time, the original Queer Eye, for the straight guy, the original.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Yes, I remember the original.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Back in 2006, how old were you?

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Six, but I remember the original. Cause my mom was like, you should watch it.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  You were like, I am interested in this, even though I'm only six. Um, so the original Queer Eye was on, was a big hit. Bravo was looking for, I guess, other shows that involved gay men. Again, very rare for 2006. And they put together a talk show pilot for Joan Rivers. And it was called Joan Rivers Straight Talk. And the joke was that it was Joan Rivers and like the view is was Barbara Walters and four different types of women. This was gonna be Joan Rivers and four different types of gay men. And it was called Joan Rivers Straight Talk, lol.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  And they, they came to my live show to kind of see if I could be one of the panelists. Cause they'd heard about my live show and Joan came to my show. This was a show being done at this off, off Broadway theater.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  And you didn't know Joan at this point?

• 33:10Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  And Joan came to my show and then I went in and I auditioned and I got it. So I was one of the panelists and it was me and Andy Cohen before he had his own show and two other guys. LZ Granderson was one of them and Preston Conrad was the fourth. Preston Conrad, who now I think works for Entertainment Tonight or something like that. Extra, maybe? And so I got this job. I shoot the pilot with Joan. It doesn't get picked up, but Joan kept coming to my live show. She loved me. She really did. And like, I don't know how else to say it. Like, it was crazy to me. She was one of the comics I grew up like Letterman watching on TV with my parents late at night, you know?

• 33:58Speaker 02

  Joan was the first live stand-up show that I ever saw when I was a kid. My parents and I used to go to this like pool club in the Bronx called Shore Haven in the eighties. It's a very kind of New York thing. And Joan came to perform once, but she did an 18 and over stand-up show because she was so raunchy.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  She cursed so much and they didn't want any kids in the show to go to the show. So, but I begged my dad. I was like, I'm literally like seven years old, but I knew Joan from TV already. And I begged my dad. I was like, please sneak me into the Joan Rivers stand-up show. And he did. And it's a very sweet story in my book, cause I was a little kid. So my dad's like holding me on his shoulders so I can watch Joan Rivers make jokes about menopause.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  You know, and I'm like a seven-year-old child, right? And then fast forward, like, I don't know, it was like 20 years later. I'm with Joan and making this pilot with her and she, even though the pilot didn't get picked up, she really, she just really wanted to champion me and support me. And it was amazing. And I didn't know famous people at this point, let alone Joan. I mean, she's such a groundbreaking figure and she's so fucking funny. She was so fucking funny off-camera too. And she had this amazing, she loved being famous. In a not, not in like a weird way where it's like desperate, in a way that people coming up, she used to tell me, this is a lesson I have remembered.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  She used to tell me, she used to get so mad when she would hear famous people complain about fans approaching them on the street. Because she said, what's better than someone you don't know, a stranger coming up to you and saying, I love you.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  I love your work.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  It's awesome.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  You mean something to me.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Why do these fucking idiots in Hollywood complain about that? They're desperate to be famous and then they wanna live these like, you know, lives where like, you know, a real person who works a nine-to-five job is not allowed to come up to them and say, I'm your fan.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Can you imagine what she would have to say about Chaparral?

• 35:51Speaker 02

  Oh, god.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  God, that would be funny.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  It would be so fucking funny.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Truly, that's such a good call. And that, when Joan said that to me one day, I, I wasn't a known person yet, but that really stuck with me. It really, and it's such a good, it's such a good lesson to learn. Cause weird shit happens in your head when you're famous. And so Joan became a really big champion of mine. But then that pilot doesn't get picked up and I keep having these close calls with jobs on TV, but I can't get arrested. I can't get a job. I can't, you know, agents and managers are dropping me and I would get a TV deal, but it would fall apart and, but I was getting all this press saying how great I was, blah, blah, blah. But if I was so great, why can't I get a job?

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  You know, it's that sort of weird show business thing that happens. And I reached out to Joan in 2009 and I emailed her. And I said, Joan, she always left herself very open for me to get in touch with her, but I didn't wanna bother her too much. But I, this time I did, cause I really needed to talk to her. And I said, Joan, I'm so frustrated. I don't understand. Like, everyone is giving me all these compliments, but I can't get a paying job. Like, how long, and I was, I was 30 at this point and, I don't know, when you turn 30, it starts to sound a little less cute. You know, that you're struggling.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  You know, and so I said to her, can you give me some advice here? Like, how much longer should I hold on at this like crazy dream? I'm like a, I come from a middle-class family in Queens. Like, we weren't wealthy. We had no connections in Hollywood. Like, you know, it was gonna require what felt like a miracle for me to break through, but I was determined, you know? And Joan said, come to my show. She was doing a weekly stand-up show. And Joan said, come to my show and then we'll have drinks upstairs. It was in the basement of a restaurant she was performing in. And then we'll talk. And I, and we did. And she just gave me the greatest pep talk of all time. And she said, how many years have you been doing this? And I said, 10.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  And she said, okay. It took me seven years to get on The Tonight Show. She said, sometimes it takes a long time. But, and she was very, very nice. And she just said that, you know, she told me that she had watched Billy Crystal come up and Robin Williams come up and all these other comics come up and that she thought that I had the talent to make it. You know, and she said, I've seen all these guys when they were young and I knew they would make it and they made it. And she said, I think you just have to hold on a little longer and you're gonna make it. And I said, okay, like you're Joan Rivers.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  And I actually went home and like called my dad. My dad was incredibly supportive, like ridiculously supportive and wanted it so bad, wanted, wanted it to happen so badly for me. And my, my whole book is basically about my dad and my parents just being so nice, really. And, but I was 30 and he was starting to worry about me. You know, it's like, what are you gonna do with your life? Like, how long do you hold on to the stream? Like, we're not rich people. Like, you need health insurance, like basic life things that I was not getting at the time, you know? I was not figuring that part of life out, like fundamentals of life. But I went home and I called and I was like, dad, I just saw Joan.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  She says I have to hold on a little while longer and she thinks I'm gonna make it. And my dad was like this guy from the Bronx, you know? And he was like, well, if Joan says it, you gotta do it.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:26Speaker 02

  That's what he said. Those were his exact words. And so it was a pep talk for my dad. It was a pep talk for me. And a year later, my first video goes viral.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  And slowly but surely, you know, things happened.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Did you enjoy, so you spent your twenties in New York?

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Were you able to like enjoy, like what was, what did dating look like for you?

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I was a maniac.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Okay, like, and what do you mean?

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Still am, I still am.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Okay, but like, what do you mean? Cause like I like, I feel like-

• 39:57Speaker 02

  Are you dating someone?

• 39:58Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  I know, I want to.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  So are subject?

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Well, I was watching Bros yesterday. I was like, I'm so triggered by this right now. Like, I can't even.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Couldn't finish it.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  No, I finished it. I finished it. But I was incredibly-

• 40:12Speaker 02

  You're not alone, Jake.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  I was incredibly triggered.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Cause I was like, oh my god, like-

• 40:17Speaker 02

  It made you want a boyfriend?

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of, yeah. But I was like, these people are kind of impossible sometimes. Like, the person I want is like this, the guy in Bros.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  That's what, that's what the movie's about.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  That we are impossible with each other as gay men.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Maybe all people are like that. I've never been straight, so I don't know. But I do think that there, there are unique things to being two men trying to date.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, you know, cause it's like, is it, is it about sex or is it about emotion? Cause it's a lot about sex and then it's like, also it can be a lot, it's like very confusing.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  What are your issues with dating?

• 40:55Speaker 01

  I don't know, I don't put myself out there.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  You don't?

• 40:58Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Well, then it's really not gonna happen.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  I know.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  But you're a kid. Sorry, that's so condescending sounding.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  No, please, I would like to hear it.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  But to me, you're a kid.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  I'm still single, I'm 48 years old, so-

• 41:08Speaker 01

  And have you ever had a boyfriend?

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Yes, but very few serious relationships.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Really?

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  And-

• 41:14Speaker 02

  But I didn't want one until I got older.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Okay. Maybe I think I want one and I, I don't actually want one.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  I think that's it.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  I think that must be it.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  I think you not putting yourself out there is like kind of your body and soul not really needing it yet, in a way. Also- You're 26 years old.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, about to be 27.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  About to be 27. You're on top of the world. You're working, I follow you on Instagram. I don't even know, where does the energy come from? You're in Monaco on a boat.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Oh, best weekend of my life!

• 41:46Speaker 02

  You're working out, you're doing, I'm following your fitness journey. I mean, you have a lot going on, Jake. So...

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Thank you, Billy.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Just do, I don't know, this is a time in your life to get your career, it's already going, but to like get it where you want to go and have fun.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Have fun. You don't need a boyfriend right now.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  I know, you're right. But crushes are so fun, aren't they?

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Crushes are great. They'll drive you crazy, but...

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Crazy, but when they're good, it's like drugs. It's like when they're good, they hit, and it's the best feeling in the entire world.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Are you on apps?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Well, I was. I was on all of them.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  And then I whittled it down to just Raya, which is like, they matched me with someone in like Dubai.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  That one isn't good. Yeah. It's not good for gay guys. I don't think it's...

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Well, I have straight, my straight friends show up on my Raya.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Cause they're like, we're out of people to show you.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Or it's like some really beautiful guy who, who's lives in Portugal.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  So, why did you go off the others? Cause you're famous?

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Well, Manny scared me.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  Wait, why?

• 42:48Speaker 01

  She was...

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Well, I am scary. I just am scared for you.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  People would sometimes be mean to me on there, and then I would...

• 42:53Speaker 02

  What?

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Yes!

• 42:54Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Like, people, like, I don't know if you know this, but like, people now, like, will screenshot, like, your messages, and like, they'll put them on Twitter, and like, I'm just like so uncomfortable.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  That fucking sucks.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  What is wrong with people?

• 43:08Speaker 01

  I know that it's fundamentally wrong, but it still happens, and it gives me a lot of anxiety. So, every message I send, I'm like, thinking about, oh my god, well, is someone gonna screenshot this and make fun of me? Cause I, it hasn't happened, but I've seen it happen to other gay people, and it like gives me like jolts of anxiety.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  I understand that. You know, if that's happened to me, I'm not aware of it. I think maybe, sorry to constantly be like, I'm older than you, I'm older than you, but like, I think because I'm older, and I'm probably dealing with an older, like, demographic of guys on those things, maybe it's less likely that like, a 45-year-old's gonna be like, "I just spoke to Billy Eichner on Hinge."

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  You know, or maybe they don't want anyone to know. It's also possible.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, um, that might be it, you know? I don't know. Uh, that sucks, I'm sorry.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  No, it's fine.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  But, you know, your life is great, and it's kind of a...

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  It's a, you know, it's an interesting life to like, do what you do and what I do. It's unusual.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  It is unusual. Well, Billy, what are you therapist about today?

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Oh shit. What am I therapist about? Uh, what am I angry about? There's so much to be angry about.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  See, there is so much.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Okay. I wish there were more shows on TV that were not about murder.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  And serial killers.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  I could not disagree more.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  It's, it's not that there aren't great shows. I just sometimes, it feels like we used to have more of a variety of shows.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Like, just shows about normal people.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Oh, like Friday Night Lights.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  Funny people. Yeah, sure, Friday, or like, you know, I'm thinking like...

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Six Feet Under.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  We, I love Six Feet Under.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  See, I know my references.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  You do?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  To an extent.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, I don't know, like, that's just something I think about as a writer, like, you know, I don't know. We used to have shows that were just about people where there was no murder involved.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  You sound like my dad.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  I know people, was that?

• 45:11Speaker 01

  You sound like my dad.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  I'm old, I know. I sound like an old man.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  That's why he hates all those shows too. I don't get it.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  I don't hate them. I don't hate them. I'm just saying, like, we used to have more variety, like, I want more like, you know, I'm a softie inside. I want like more Gilmore Girls, and more like Sex and the City. You're not a Gilmore Girl person?

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Mm-mm.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  I can't. It just, it really, I've tried, and I'm like, it's not for me. I'm so sorry.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  That's totally fine.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  I love Girls. Girls is my favorite show of all time.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  It's a great show.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  My other favorite show of all time is this show called Dark.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, you talk about that. I've never seen that.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  I love that you know that.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Yes, I watch your show.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  It is a German show that you would hate.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Why would I hate it?

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Dark is about a little German boy named Mikal, and he goes missing in a small German town. And Jonas, his brother, tries to find him.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  But why can't I watch that?

• 45:55Speaker 01

  You can. It's on Netflix. I just don't think you would like it.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  Why?

• 45:58Speaker 01

  It's about like murder and like...

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, oh, I see. It's about murder.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  I love...

• 46:02Speaker 02

  I love murder. Don't get me wrong. I love murder. But like, you know, I love a serial killer. I was on American Horror Story.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  I know, you were on the...

• 46:09Speaker 02

  I enjoyed it. I loved doing it, you know? I'm just saying, it's, it feels like so, it's so much of what people watch now.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  It must be escapism. People, I think it is.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  For me, that's the thing. I think you're right, but for me, it's not an escape. I'm like, I have so much anxiety already. The world is so dark and brutal, that I can't believe, like, people go home at night, crash on their couch, and they want to escape into what? An even darker scenario?

• 46:37Speaker 01

  I know.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  Um, what am I watching? I, I tend to watch a lot of things, um, that are related to things I'm writing.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  So, right now, I am, um, I'm about to pitch a Christmas movie.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  That has music in it.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Can't say much more about that. So, I'm watching things that are kind of in that world that I will admit, I had never seen until this week, Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I actually don't know if I've seen that either.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  You've never heard about it?

• 47:11Speaker 01

  No, I've, I've, please.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a classic.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  I've heard about it, but I, I think, I think I might have seen it when I was a kid.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  It's great, from what I recall.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  I missed it and just watched it as a, as a grown man.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  And what, what was that like?

• 47:24Speaker 02

  It was, it's great. It's very unusual. It's very smart.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Christmas movies rock.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  This one's so different, though. I agree with you. I love a Christmas movie, but this one is like, it's a, it's a mix of Halloween and Christmas. I'm so glad someone's finally promoting The Nightmare Before Christmas, by the way. It's been out for 30 years. Um, fascinating story. Then I did all this research about The Nightmare Before Christmas, is that it was a Disney movie, but it's interesting how much times have changed. It was a Disney movie, but Disney thought it was too edgy, so they wouldn't put the Disney name on the movie when it came out.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  And then now, it became such a classic, that now they like stamp Disney all over it, and there's like a whole Nightmare Before Christmas, like, thing at Disney World or during Halloween and stuff, but like, they were scared of it. And it is an odd movie. It's kind of very, um...

• 48:12Speaker 01

  I was scared when I was a kid.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  You thought it was scary?

• 48:15Speaker 01

  If I recall correctly. I remember being frightened.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  I was always frightened by movies as a kid. My mother had to take me out of Ghostbusters.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  I was so scared.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  I loved horror movies as a kid. I loved being scared.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Oh, I did not, and I still don't.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Stuff like that, the others with like...

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Oh, the others is, but that's on like another level. The others is so good.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, I loved all those movies.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  There's so much, there's just so much Nicole Kidman happening in our culture, like constantly now.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  It's awesome, huh?

• 48:41Speaker 02

  I mean, I've always loved her. You know, the very first season of Billy on the Street, going, 2011, we did a segment, I don't think it's ever been online, it was just on the show, and it was, it wasn't me going up to people, it was more of a scripted sketch, and it was a, like a protest, a rally, that was staged like a political rally to raise awareness of Nicole Kidman.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  I actually vaguely...

• 49:03Speaker 02

  You might have seen it.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  I think I've seen this.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  You might have seen it.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  And, because in that moment, people weren't talking as much about Nicole Kidman. She was like a thing, I mean, she was a huge star, of course, and she was an amazing actress, but god, Nicole Kidman is like, she's like the Statue of Liberty now. I mean, she's like everywhere. Pop songs, every movie, every time I look at Instagram. She did your show.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  And she was great.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  She was awesome.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  She talked about being lonely the night she won the Oscar.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  I know, which was so moving.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  That was really honest and nice to hear. Not nice, but I like the honesty of it.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Well, of course, cause you're like, it almost makes you feel better, cause you're like, all I want in life are like trophies and accolades and pats on the back and congratulations, but if you come home to an empty house, what does that, what does it all mean?

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Is that what happened to you after you won the Webby?

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Do you have a Webby?

• 49:58Speaker 01

  I do have a fucking Webby.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  So do I! Yes! And I went home and I wept all night because I won a Webby.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  I...

• 50:05Speaker 02

  And because it's the only award I've ever won.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  I won, that's the only award you've ever won?

• 50:09Speaker 02

  No, I won a GLAD Award.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Which was very nice. That was for bros, and I've been nominated for four Emmys and have lost all four.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Still cool to be nominated.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Still very cool. Was very happy to go to the Emmys four times.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yes, very cool.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Um, no, after I won that Webby, I think I was like...

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Did you go?

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, I went.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  And.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Wait, what happened?

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Just like they only, the speech that they, you're only allowed to say, as you know, five words.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  And so no one, it's just, you know what, it's better we move on.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  It's better we move on. My hair looked bad. You let me leave.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Wait, was it's better we move on your speech?

• 50:49Speaker 01

  No, my speech was.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Five words.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  My, I know. My speech was, I wish I could say more and I thought I ate.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  And everyone the next day was like, ew.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  You should have said, it's better we move on.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  I know, that's funny. That's funny. Had I workshopped it a little, there was others in the running.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Do you remember my hair was like?

• 51:07Speaker 02

  I like your hair now.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Me too. Yeah, like, I like my hair now too.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Your hair looks great.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  And I think I'm gonna be Danny Phantom for Halloween.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cute.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna do a little bleach.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Are you a Halloween person?

• 51:17Speaker 01

  No, but I finally got invited to a cool party. I feel excited. I'm gonna go with my best friends, like, it's around my birthday.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  When's your birthday?

• 51:25Speaker 01

  October 27th.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Oh, nice.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  All right, where are you?

• 51:28Speaker 02

  September 18th.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Forgo.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you're Scorpio?

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Scorpio.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  My first sort of serious boyfriend was a Scorpio.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  How'd you guys meet?

• 51:37Speaker 02

  We.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  And how old were you?

• 51:38Speaker 02

  I was right out of college, so I was like 21, and we met at was, at what was a very chic gay party in the year 2000 in Manhattan called Beige at B-Bar, Bowery Bar, which was a gay party every Tuesday night that, you know, the cool gays went to and a lot of like fashion people. I saw Julie Roberts there once and like, fashion designers would go. I mean, I was like a schlub who had just graduated college, but I did, I met my first boyfriend there.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  And you're?

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Wasn't my first boyfriend, my first serious boyfriend.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Oh, fuck, I gotta catch up, you guys. I really do.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Have you had a serious boyfriend?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  I run away every time.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  That's not unusual, though, for gay men, to be honest.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  You don't think so?

• 52:21Speaker 02

  No, I, I had one serious boyfriend out of college and then did not have one again for a very long time.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Do you think you can make someone have a crush on you if they don't initially?

• 52:29Speaker 02

  No.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Okay, cool.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  You can, um.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Or is that what you're trying to do currently?

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  No, Jake, you gotta get out of that game.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  I hate it too. It sucks.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Because you want, if you like the person in your head, you're like, but it was a Tuesday.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  And he had to get up the next morning and like.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  That's what I'm thinking about, literally right now.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  He's married to a woman. It's like, who cares? You know?

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Have you ever hooked up with a guy that was married to a woman?

• 52:54Speaker 02

  No. I am so not into that.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  No, I mean.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Not for me.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  But sometimes by accident, it happens, no?

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't think so.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  Have you?

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Once. By accident.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Oh, by accident.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. What excites you about pop culture today? Like, is there anything that's so exciting to you about pop culture today?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Madonna.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  There are a lot of movies coming out I really wanna see. I wanna see, especially movi, I, you know, I like movies about gay people.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  So you wanna see the, the Andrew, uh, the Andrew Scott one?

• 53:26Speaker 02

  I wanna see Elsinore. I wanna see Jordan Firstman's movie.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Oh, so badly. So badly. That trailer was amazing.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I, I wanna go out and support those movies. It's hard to get those movies made.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Well, you made one.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  I did make one, and it was fucking hard. It's hard, you know, and it's rare. So, and I hear that those two are really good. I wanna see those two movies. This is a time of year a lot of good movies are coming out.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  It's a good year for movies.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  But I don't like that they dump all the good movies at the end of the year.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Oh, I love it.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  You do?

• 53:56Speaker 01

  It gets cold out. What else is there to do? Let's go see a movie, like, oh my god.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  It feels like, uh, I just, it's so, it's like, uh, now there's a mad dash to see like every movie.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  You gotta see The Social Reckoning, you gotta see, what is the?

• 54:08Speaker 02

  The Andrew Garfield one, where he plays Sam Altman.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Oh, artificial. I've heard it's amazing.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  I know.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  See, so many movies. And then there's the Nathan Fielder one about Elizabeth Holmes.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Yes, he is Nathan Fielder.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Did you know him at all, like?

• 54:22Speaker 02

  We've met a couple of times at parties. Actually, the first time I met him at a party, I don't know when this was, five or six years ago, it was like Nathan for you era. And I saw him at a party in LA and I went up to him and I said, I love you. And he looked at me and he said, I love you too. And it was like very sweet. And I've met him a few times. I am, he is genius.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  He's a genius.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Singular genius. I just love him.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's awesome.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  I mean, what a great eclectic career.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  I know.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  So cool.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  It's like something that became, started so silly, became so meaningful.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  It's so meaningful.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  That's kind of how I feel about Bo Burnham as well.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  Where is Bo Burnham?

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Dating Phoebe Bridgers.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  Get out!

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Swear.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  I did not know that.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  She has a song about him called Bobby.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  I did not know that.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Fantastic.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  I missed Phoebe Bridgers in concert, unfortunately.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Oh, I've seen her four times.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  I heard it was amazing, yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  She's incredible.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Um, you know who I love?

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Who?

• 55:19Speaker 02

  Sara Bareilles.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Wait, so do I, because she gave us Waitress.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  That's right. I just saw her. She has a really beautiful album out called, um, uh, oh god, Good Grief.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Good Grief.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  And it's, it's sad. It's about dealing with loss and like people, friends that she has lost in her life, but it's really, really beautiful. And there's a documentary about the making of the album I watched. I'm like a weirdly obsessive Sara Bareilles fan.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  I get very obsessive about like, when I, when I see, when I have an album I like, like a documentary to go along with it is always the best. Like, I, I'm very into music by her picks.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  And I went to see her same, I went to see her at Radio City a few weeks ago on my birthday. She was, her tour came to New York. Gorgeous. And she is so fucking talented. And I, I know her a little bit, but not really. So this is not like I'm plugging my friend here, like, but she's just really insanely talented. Um, what else do I, what are you listening to?

• 56:17Speaker 01

  I'm listening to a lot, that I, I find the new Adele stuff to be amazing.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Oh, Nicole Kidman!

• 56:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but she is, it goes, it goes way past that.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  I know it's more than that, I know, I know, I know.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  The song called Marijuana, she has this amazing, it's like, it's, you know, it's just one of those, like, you know, when, it's like Rihanna's like higher, like one minute 30 seconds, you're like, I wish it was longer.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  I've been listening to Miley's new album.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  She's the biggest Miley fan in the entire world.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  I really love her.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  I've been listening to the new Tinashe album I did at the gym today.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  I have not heard that yet.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  It's really good. It's like as good as people are saying.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  So you know about the Tell Me What's Wrong's then?

• 56:51Speaker 02

  I do. Yeah.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  I'm being used as the photos for some random catfisher on Hinge, the way I would be so honored.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  My friend showed me a profile with my face and photos, but not my name or anything else about me. On the one hand, let's go. I'm being used as a hot girl. Yeah. On the other, I want that shit taken down. LMAO. We already reported, but I'm having my friend try to match with this person. Question is, what do we do slash say if we get the match? I'd be like, what's your name? Where are you from? Like, I wanna see what story they would make up for me.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  Wouldn't you just say like, you're using my friend's photos?

• 57:27Speaker 01

  No. Be like, what's your name?

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Or you would like.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Where are you from?

• 57:31Speaker 02

  Trying to keep it going?

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  Oh, why?

• 57:35Speaker 01

  What else is there to do?

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Honestly, a great answer.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Like, what else is there to do? Do they have my social security number? No?

• 57:43Speaker 02

  Great, okay.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  All good.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  It's just like a fun thing.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  Steal, being, you're, having your identity being stolen.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  But it's not, though. It's like, you know, it's fake. It's like, and all, if I, if I didn't have, um, a public career and that happened to me, I would be like, holy fuck, this is the best thing to ever happen to me.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Somebody thinks I'm hot enough to catfish.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  I, I, I agree with you. And it's creepy too, but also flattering.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  My roommate has been reading my journal for months now. I just caught her doing this and she fessed up.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  It's become habitual for her. She says it's because we're drifting apart and she just wants to know what's going on with me, but I think that's batshit insane. Hope, literally, what do I say to her? Well, she's gotta go.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's terrible.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Someone read my journal.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  That's like my worst nightmare.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  It's my worst nightmare.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Do you journal every day?

• 58:29Speaker 01

  No, do you?

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Uh, most days.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  I try to, but I, I, I get distracted and then I end up just writing notes on my phone.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  There's a very streamlined journal I read, I use.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Called?

• 58:41Speaker 02

  It's just three questions every day.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Okay, see, maybe that would help me.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, my therapist was like, you're not gonna journal and journal and journal, so you need like the same three questions every morning and every night.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  What's it called?

• 58:53Speaker 02

  It's called the Three Question Journal.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  It's actually very helpful. I've given it to other people and everyone enjoys it.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  I think I need it.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  I'll send you the link.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Journaling does help to an extent.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  And I like to listen to music as I do so.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  I do the same.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  What do you listen to?

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Calming things, like jazz.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. What do you listen to?

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Honestly, like, I'd probably put on Audrey Hobart today and journal.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  To journal?

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Her music feels like a journal.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  That works.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  My friend is a joke stealer.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Hmm, we don't like that.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  No. We'll be out and he'll tell a joke to the group and everyone will laugh, but we watch the same stuff because we talk about it, recommend it to each other all the time. And I noticed like multiple times lately, he's been ripping off character setups and dialogue, et cetera. Oh, I don't do that. I don't really care, I guess, but it just feels so phony. Do I get him to stop for his own sake before someone else catches him?

• 59:43Speaker 02

  But he should stop doing that.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  You have to distance yourself from him.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  And then he won't have any more jokes to make.

• 59:49Speaker 02

  That sucks.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  I know it does suck. The beauty of my friends is that we all steal each, like, we all adapt our own language.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  Are you, are your friends old friends?

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, from college. So we've known each other for like eight, nine years.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Do you go out in New York?

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  I saw you out one night, but it was like a dinner or something.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Oh my god, you saw me at LeDive?

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  But I mean, like, you go out like, to like gay clubs and stuff?

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  No, I don't. And so actually, it's funny you mention that because me and my friend, we're like, let's go to a gay club, let's go to a gay bar tomorrow night, and we don't know where to go.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Oh, I'll take you.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Okay, please.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  Great.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Will you tell me like, and take me?

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  I will.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  I'm surprised, like, you should know these things.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  I get, I get very, but I get very intimidated by that scene.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Cause I feel like gay people don't really necessarily love me. I think I'm more of a girls' gay, which I, I know about myself. That's how I was raised, that's, you know, I was raised around women, like, I, I, my humor is very like, to make them laugh.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  Yes, I get that.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  But when I go into like a predominantly like male gay place, they don't, I don't, I get very scared.

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  They don't hate you.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  Well, sometimes it feels that way.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  Well, that's just social media nonsense, though. IRL is different.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  Okay. What's your favorite gay bar?

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  What's my favorite gay bar?

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  The only one I know is Animal.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Animal is a good one, in Brooklyn. Um, we go to The Eagle a lot.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  I've, I've heard of Loose.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't even know what that is.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Loose is like what you were describing, that 2000s chic little gay thing. That's loose, right? Would you say I'm correct? You're a fake gay icon.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  Where else do we, like, uh?

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  You know Louise has gay parties where she invites all of her gay friends besides me?

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  You don't go?

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  I don't get invited.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  Why?

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Pick up the mic. You do do that. You do do that, actually, frequently. I'm like, what are you doing tonight? You're like, oh my god, it's my gay dinner. I'm like, oh, I didn't know that.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  That is weird.

• 1:01:42Speaker 04

  I don't do that. This is a hyperbole.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  You do do that.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  Sensationalized.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  You do do that.

• 1:01:49Speaker 04

  I've had one party.

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  One party? That he wasn't invited to?

• 1:01:52Speaker 04

  Well, just so I, I had a friend that was visiting the city that was, used to live in LA that moved to New York, and he was coming back to LA, so I invited him and like, our...

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  A bunch of other gay men?

• 1:02:02Speaker 04

  Yes. You don't know.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  He's looking at me.

• 1:02:07Speaker 04

  It was like, it was like a welcome home, like, seeing the friend that's...

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. By the way, she has a life, you know. She doesn't have to be attached to your hip all the time.

• 1:02:15Speaker 04

  Oh shit.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't I know it?

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  You have to go out and socialize.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  I know, I'm gonna go to a...

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  You're a young, successful gay man in New York City.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  You'll take me to a gay bar?

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Okay, let's go to a gay bar.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  I would love that.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  The Eagle, all these places.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  Get ready.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  Have you ever been to a gay bar? You must have been.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  I've been like a few times, but I blackout drunk, like blackout drunk, like beyond...

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  That's not good.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  You can have a few drinks, but blackout, you're not gonna remember.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  No, yeah, yeah. But I do go out a lot. Like, in general, I go out.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  In general, you go out a lot, but you go out with girls, straight girls.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  You're not gonna meet a boy that way.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  And then my night gets ruined, I get sad, I get home, I get annoyed.

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  This is what I'm saying. Alright, we gotta take you out.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Show you a good time.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  I'm so tired of never knowing if I'm being filmed or not. I was walking in the city and some, oh my god, did you do this on purpose? I was walking in the city and some people popped up out of nowhere asking me to explain my outfit. You kinda started that.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  For better or worse.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. They had been filming me for a block and then ambushed me. I was so caught off guard, I just went with it and they ran to film someone else. Like, I don't wanna be a part of that stuff, but I didn't want confrontation out of nowhere. It's so annoying, there's no privacy anywhere.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  I mean, it's become so prevalent. It's like all over now.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  I know. Have you walked, have you walked through Washington Square Park?

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. It wasn't like that when I did it.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  Um, and we also like, we went out with like, we were a real TV show, like, two TV cameras and like a sound guy with a boom. Like, you don't see all of that on camera, but it was pretty obvious that we were coming your way.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  You know, like, now, sometimes, these days, people are walking, looking down at their phones, they don't know who's gonna come up to them, you know, so we kind of caught people off guard that way. But this whole thing with like, jumping out and like, I don't know, did I do a little of that? Yes, I did. But, um, I don't know, it's kind of like, most people that I did it with, like, first of all, everyone has to sign a release.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  See, that was my question. All these people that showed, that were on your show, they had to say...

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  On my show.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  They signed something.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  I don't think that's, I don't know if that's true of these other offshoots.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  They'll just, they'll just throw it up.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know, because it's just being done for the internet and it's still kind of like a Wild West legally.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  I had a TV show with, with like lawyers involved.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  So you, people had to sign stuff.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  People had to like sign, you know, give us their information, you know, like, so...

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  You did it ethically.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  We did it as ethically as you can. You know, did I catch some people off guard? Yeah, I mean, that's part of the fun.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  But they still sign the form.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  They do, no one has ever been on Billy on the Street without giving us their approval. After we had our interaction, then they have to sign something. And if some people didn't sign, and you've never seen anyone on the show who did not sign.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Maybe some of these new shows should take a lesson.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  Maybe. My dream is to be asked, what are you listening to right now? Stop on the Street. That's my dream.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  That's a good one.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  I like that one.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  It's my favorite. That's, I'm always thinking about it when I'm walking down the street. Like, someone, please, just ask me.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  That can't happen?

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  No, I've been saying it a lot on the show, so someone does. But I want it to be like a random, like, I want it to be the show.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  Right, you want the real guy.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  I want the real show. I want them to find me. And I want it to be set up at all, and I want them to say, what are you listening to? And then my favorite part of those is when they play the song as you walk away.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's nice.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is nice.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  Am I in the wrong here? My group is getting very upset with me lately because I always play devil's advocate.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  I think it's important almost every time to see both sides, and these girls are often in the wrong too. So I think that's why they're upset. I don't wanna change this about myself, but they are really fed up with it. Any advice? Stay true to who you are, because my best friend in the entire world, Will, does this with me every single time and it makes me a better person.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  You're fucking annoying, is my advice.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  You think?

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  Every time, you're like, I'm the friend that's gonna play devil's advocate.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  It's me? It's important!

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Shut up.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  It's important!

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  You're not a friend, you're annoying.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Oh my god!

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  I mean, if you, you don't need to play devil's advocate in every scenario.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  You know, now, if you really think that legitimately your friend needs to see the other side...

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  No, I would be annoyed too.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Of some debate, that's different.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  And I would talk so much.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  This is who I am, your whole personality is I play devil's advocate? Get a life.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  That's what I say. Do you always play devil's advocate? Why?

• 1:06:53Speaker 04

  Not always, and I think it's very situation dependent, but a lot of times, the things that we're discussing aren't that.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Okay, give me an example, for real.

• 1:07:03Speaker 04

  Like, he'll think someone's mad at him or something. I'm like, no, perhaps you're just like, hearing their communication in a different way. Like, sometimes it's not so black and white, and I'm like, maybe there's miscommunications happening.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  But that's actually helpful to you, because you're assuming everyone hates you, and then you're saying not everyone, just some people.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  No, she agrees, she agrees with that most of the time. She agrees with that most of the time.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  But, um, yeah, no, she plays devil's advocate quite a bit.

• 1:07:30Speaker 04

  Well, and I think even if you're a hundred percent always right, I think it's still helpful.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  No, she'll say, you're right, but the way you deliver the news is wrong.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Oh, well, there might be some truth to that.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  I think, I think we've diverted topics now, actually.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  I communicate poorly.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Okay. And yet, here you are. It's your charm.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Isn't that, I think that's why people get so angry.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  But it's also what makes you you, so it's a tricky one.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Right? It's when you stop being you. You don't.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Because eventually, what I realized is, people will come around. If you just don't stop being yourself, no matter how annoying you are, people will come around.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  You're not annoying to the people that love you, though.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  No, I am, but I think that's like...

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  And they're, they find it endearing.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Right? You don't need everyone to love you.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  No, you, I, I, and I've, and I've come to terms with that.

• 1:08:23Speaker 02

  Yes, and you're, being as popular as you are, not everyone's gonna love you.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  Well, thank you.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  And some people are gonna actively, gonna hate you.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  But that's part of the life of doing this.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Have you ever had someone in person be like, I don't like you?

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  I was once at a gay bar several years ago, um, and it was really loud, you know, there was a dance floor, and they were, there were these two gay guys, younger than me. I would say, they were in their like, probably late twenties or something like that, early thirties, and, um, the music was so loud, they probably thought I couldn't hear what they were saying. But, but they were just standing right over there, right? And I was like with my friends, but I heard my name. They were like, and it was something like, that's Billy Eichner? And then one of the other was like, yeah. And then, now, they obviously don't know who I am. They know my work.

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  They don't know me in real life. They were like, yeah, that's him. And then, uh, one of them said, uh, he's cute, but I just don't like his personality.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Oh shit.

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  Very, like, and I could hear it, but like, I, but it made me laugh. I was like, you don't know my personality. Like, you don't know me as a real person. Like, you don't like my character, or like, you don't like something you saw that I was in. I thought it was very funny, though. I was kind of amused by it.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Um, it felt like...

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  That would send me home.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  Was that?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  That would send me home.

• 1:09:50Speaker 02

  Oh god, no, that's the difference between you and me. You need a thicker skin, babe.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  You wanna be in this for the long haul, especially as a gay man. Yeah, people, people will say crazy shit, um, but I don't know, it kinda makes me laugh. I'm like, they're, they're talking about me like they really know me, and they're strangers. It's like, you don't know me. Like, you saw a video or you saw something that I did that like, you didn't like the, like, the attitude. Also, like, I don't know, for me, I was like, you probably just aren't people who get what I do.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  And that's gonna have to be fine.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  Like, it's gonna have to be fine for you, and it's gonna have to be fine for me, and I don't need you to like my personality in order for me to be successful. Like, we can coexist as people in this club with you thinking that you don't like me based on some work of mine that you saw, and with me knowing that. Like, I don't care. I have plenty of people that like me. And let's be honest, I was still happy they said I was cute.

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  That's, I was about to say, that's what I would have been happy about.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  He's cute even though I don't like his personality.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  That's what I would, that's what I would have been happy about.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  That's really what you want.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  I would say that I, I, the, the, I've grown thicker skin when realizing that like, okay, like, I've had my best friends for like, almost ten years now. They're gonna be my best friends for life. As long as I have them, I'm fine. Like, you know?

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  I was, I will say, I was thinking about you earlier, when I was on my way here, because you've had a lot of success for someone your age, and I, which is amazing, but I, I used to, I've thought many times about myself, like, in those Joan Rivers years, when I was going to Joan for help, I was closer to your age. But now, and all I wanted was success. I had just wanted to be paid for anything at that point, right? Now, looking back, I think to myself, I'm sure it would have been so fucking fun to be like, famous and successful in my twenties in a certain kinda way, right?

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  But I don't think I was ready. I think it would have also been very hard. And I wasn't even in the social media world that you're in now.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  And even so, I think, sometimes I think I probably would have been an asshole, or I would have been like, completely torn apart by like, anything anyone said. It's still hard, and so like, to have to navigate it in your twenties, I think is a tricky thing.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  Well, because you don't even know who you are in your twenties.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  So then you're like, reading these comments that are telling you who you are, and you're like, and they're negative, and you're like, wait, am I that? Luckily for me, my frontal lobe is coming. It's coming fully developed. So I can read them and like kind of move past it.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  But I would just imagine that that's hard, actually.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  So you need your friends and you need to just sort of not give a shit about what like every single person, there's a billion people out there online, not all of them are gonna like you. Then you're gonna come with me to the Eagle. We're gonna fuck shit up.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  Is it, what's it like in there?

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  What's it like?

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  You literally grew up in Manhattan. It's so funny.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  See, you don't even, I once like, you grew up in New York, like, I'm like, I had no money. I looked like I was 12. Like, I wasn't going anywhere.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  I actually, I wasn't like a New York kid that went out. I was a nerd. I went to Styvusent. You know, I was like a nerd about like schoolwork and stuff. Like, I wasn't like going to clubs.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  I didn't have that like cool kid, New York lifestyle. But in my twenties, I was so looking forward to like going out and like experiencing nightlife in New York and gay nightlife and all of that.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  But I do worry, though, like, I don't know. I get anxious. Maybe it's like a self-important. Maybe I think I'm more important than I am, but like sometimes I do get anxious about like to go to like a gay bar and like have someone take a photo of me and then like make fun of me. I do get scared.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. You're right. So I think a lot of gay men feel anxiety in those types of spaces, but I think they can also be like uniquely liberating. And I think that maybe it'll be for you and maybe it won't, you know? Like, it's not for everyone. But I don't know. I think it's fun and I think it's sexy and it's like, you know, something great about being a gay man is that you can go and have those types of experiences like with other gay men, like separate from the outside world. And I don't know, there's something fun about it.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  No, it sounds fun. And I'm excited to be a part of it soon for my golden birthday.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  All right. What's that?

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  It's my golden birthday soon.

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Not that you give a fuck, but...

• 1:14:25Speaker 02

  What's golden birthday?

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  It's like when you turn 27 on the 27th.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Oh, I've never heard that expression.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Like, your golden birthday, what's your birthday?

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  The 18th.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  So it would have been when you turned 18 on the 18th. You have a good girl. That's a good golden birthday.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  Last one. "Hey Jake, and beautiful guest. I recently moved to NYC and went back to visit my hometown. I saw my childhood best friend who ran away when we were little and now she's acting like nothing happened." What? "We exchanged numbers. How do I approach this situation? Mind you, we grew up together and she ran away when she was 13. I haven't seen her in almost 10 years. Oh my god, just let her."

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  Let her pretend. Poor girl.

• 1:15:03Speaker 02

  This feels dark and weird.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  That's the type of show I love, though. Talk about the type of show I love, like shit like that.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Like someone running away from home?

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, like dark, twisted, like...

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  I don't like that.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  Sharp Objects type.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  Oh, that was good.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  See, if every show could be like Sharp Objects, I'd have the best life. I'd just sit and watch TV all day.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  But you don't want to do that.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  Sometimes I do.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  I know, sometimes. Yeah.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, Billy?

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  What did we learn today?

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  What did we learn?

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  A lot about Madonna.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  Thank god, you needed it.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  Clearly.

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Someone needs to educate you people.

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  I know. I know. Well, Billy?

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  Jake.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Thank you for coming on the show.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me. You're delightful.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  You are delightful. This was so fun. I hope you had fun.

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  I did have fun. We're gonna take you out.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  The night of our lives.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  I know. It's gonna be fun.

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  Bye pussies.

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