Session 147: Sheryl Lee Ralph

Put your best self on and LIVE YOUR LIFE! A portion of tonight’s ad revenue is being donated to the Diva Foundation https://diva.foundation/ Thanks to Poppi for sponsoring this episode! https://www.drinkpoppi.com/ Thanks to Depop for sponsoring this episode! https://www.depop.com/ Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Sheryl! https://www.instagram.com/thesherylleeralph/ Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:02Speaker 00

  Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light. And slowly, the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it, layer by layer, until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Hi pussies, welcome back to Therapist. Tonight, we have on Cheryl Lee Ralph. Honestly, probably one of my favorite episodes to film from this entire season. She is so lovely, and it was such an honor to talk to her. And I'm so excited for you guys to hear the episode. So, a few things before we get into it. I think I'm gonna bleach my hair. Honestly, a few things. If you're listening on Spotify, I like, I'm not even saying this because like I, because on YouTube, I used to like go through all the comments and stuff. And I don't do that anymore because we're not on YouTube. So like, I would appreciate comments on Spotify. But anyway, keep the comments coming. Um, I, but dead ass though. Like, I like really like reading them.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  I'm getting like iCarly vibes from me right now.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  I am iCarly. I'm iCarly, I'm Neville. I'm Neville. What else do I have to say? Oh, I really want to bleach my hair, but everyone's telling me to like stop at the buzz cut. But this is something that I'm like, sound off in the Spotify comments. If you're listening on Spotify, should I bleach my hair? Yes or no? But let me just say something like, when I was threatening to get a buzz cut, everyone was like, do not do it, do not do it, do not do it, do not do it. And then everyone was like, wait, it looks so good. So, I think I'm gonna bleach it while I'm in the city. What other updates do I have?

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Thank you, it's shout out, shout out Sour Puss.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Shout out Sour Puss. You guys are selling out Sour Puss. Like, damn, you really are. I was not expecting this. Like, I really, I really wasn't. I knew Sour Puss was good, but I was not expecting it to do what it has done. Like, really and truly, like, it's flying off the shelves, and I'm so grateful for that. Um, I've also realized a few other things about myself this week. Shopping is not filling the void it once was. My frontal lobe is fully developing. It's coming in really hard, like really hard. And with, when you, when your frontal lobe develops, you realize how bored you are. Like, I'm bored, I'm so bored all the time. Should I call all my friends and ask them to rate their day on a scale from 1 to 10?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you want to ask about my day?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Rate your, rate your day on a scale from 1 to 10.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  So honestly, I woke up with such a pep in my step. I don't know if you could tell at 5 below?

• 3:01Speaker 01

  I could tell at 5 below, actually. You were in a good mood. Because you didn't, I was like, can we please push it to 10:30? And you didn't give me-

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Sure, why not?

• 3:09Speaker 01

  -anything about it.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  You know, not every hill is a hill to die on. And that's just been my vibe today. And I've had a 10 out of 10 day. I had an amazing therapy session, I'm about to go on a walk.

• 3:19Speaker 03

  Yo, I have a call right now.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Okay, well, you're on Therapist. I would just like you to rate your day out of 10.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  Ooh, compared to my week?

• 3:27Speaker 01

  No, just you, rate your day out of 10.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Well, compared to my week, like today was a whopping 7. Like, I am feeling way better than I have. But I think it's important to shed light on the fact that I am having like the darkest 2 weeks of my life.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Right, so what would you-

• 3:45Speaker 03

  So today being a 7 is like a modern 3 and 1/2.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Okay, right. Have you decided where we're going for dinner?

• 3:54Speaker 03

  No, and I honestly am gonna be so pissed off because I hate when you put it on me, but then you're the picky one. I'll be like, okay, let's go here at this time. And you're like, actually, no, I want this, and I want this dish with this side. And I will only go if it's in between these crossroads. And I will only go at 6:58 PM. It's like, okay, then I'm not fucking helping. You give me a plan.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I sent you that sushi place.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  Well, let me look it up.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Okay, goodbye, love you.

• 4:21Speaker 03

  Goodbye. Love you.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  I don't like this game anymore.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Okay, what are you listening to right now?

• 4:26Speaker 01

  What am I listening to? I'm listening to, here, let me go to my Spotify. Ooh, the 8 in L.A. live Spotify radar performance that Adella did. It's really good. I've been listening to Pink Clouding a lot. I really fuck with it. And Marijuana by Adella.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  And I've been listening to this song called "Don't Do Me Good" by Matty Diaz, featuring Kacey Musgraves.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  I'm excited to give it a listen.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  It's really good. And if you guys are curious about my playlist, I have a playlist for every single year of my life. Right now, I'm on 26, and it's like, I have it, they're all public on Spotify. So you can go to my Spotify, and we'll put a screen thing here. But this is my playlist, you guys, that you can listen to. Okay, well, enjoy the episode, love you pussies.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Tonight on Therapist, we have Emmy award-winning, Tony-nominated legend Cheryl Lee Ralph.

• 5:32Speaker 04

  Oh, thank you.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Thank you for being here.

• 5:35Speaker 04

  Good to be here with you.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  It's so good to be here with you. You know, I watched Sister Act 2, watched it as a kid, and then I rewatched it again this weekend.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  Such a great movie.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  It is a phenomenal movie. It is hysterical to watch you tell Miss Lauryn Hill that she can't sing.

• 5:49Speaker 04

  You know, I had no idea that that scene would live forever. The amount of times I heard, singing does not pay the bills. I'm like, oh, yes, it does.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Was that as fun to shoot as it looked?

• 6:05Speaker 04

  For me, it was great because it was working with so many young people who, when I looked at them, I was like, my God, so talented. And time has passed, and I look at the career of Lauryn Hill, still selling out the Hollywood Bowl. You know, when I look at, oh my gosh, why am I blanking on her name? She's on 9/11, the series 9/11, and she's done so much TV as well. And then-

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Jennifer Love Hewitt.

• 6:33Speaker 04

  Jennifer Love Hewitt. And then, um, oh my goodness, songwriter from the group City High. And he's written such amazing Grammy Award-winning music. And so many others in that cast. And I was like, wow, I could see it, and I was right.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 6:52Speaker 04

  And I was right.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  I love Abbott Elementary, it's one of my-

• 6:54Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  -favorite. I, I mean, I can't even imagine how much you guys laugh on set because it is one of the only shows that can make me laugh as hard as it does.

• 7:03Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  It is truly, truly incredible.

• 7:06Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  I wanted to talk to you about Dreamgirls.

• 7:09Speaker 04

  Oh, come on. All you've got to do is dream.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Where your dream-

• 7:15Speaker 04

  Come on now. Boys will make you happy.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Dreamgirls will never leave you.

• 7:22Speaker 04

  It's the truth. It's the truth. You know what? The number of people that want to tell me their Dreamgirls story. When I listen and there's like, I was 10 years old, I sat there. It was my first musical, my first Broadway show, and I love Broadway. Oh my God, they still sing it. It's just, ah, it's just amazing to me. Just amazing.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  It is one of the greatest musicals of all time. And I just, what was it like to be the star of Broadway?

• 7:58Speaker 04

  You know what? That was a time when Broadway was all sparkly, shiny. And folks came in from everywhere because they wanted to see you. And we had a thing called SRO, Standing Room Only, which means you could literally buy a ticket to stand in the back of the theater to see the show. That's how on fire people were to see the show. And the fact was that anybody who was anybody was coming to see you. When I think back, you know, it, it was just, just amazing. Now, when the curtain came down, you couldn't get a cab to get home because they weren't picking up black people to take them anywhere then.

• 8:42Speaker 04

  But other than that, while you were on that stage, you were the queen-

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:48Speaker 04

  -of the world. And it was amazing. Oh, I had such a good time, such memories. I remember when Sylvester Stallone, my God, to have seen Sylvester Stallone as a young man. Oh my God. Whoa, I mean, he was, he was literally like looking at sugar. He was just like, mm-hmm. Yeah, I know how that tastes. Yeah. Oh, he was something else. I was going through books the other day, because you know, after a while, you live, you collect all this stuff. And I found in the middle of the, of book, one of the OJs, a great R&B group, the, the OJs,

• 9:31Speaker 04

  one of the OJs had written me a love letter. And I was like, I'm, I'm getting it 45 years later. I don't even know if he's alive, but yeah, my goodness. Then that time, um, Rick James came to see the show. He said, yeah, let's go shopping. And we went shopping down Fifth Avenue and he bought me a vertical record player. Oh, it was great. I thought I was something else. You push the button and it just opened and you slid your record in like you were sliding in a cassette. Oh, it was magic. Thank you, Rick James.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Thank you. What was, what was the first record you bought for that record player? Do you remember?

• 10:11Speaker 04

  I think it was Rick James.

• 10:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think it was Rick James.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Do you, so you joined the cast of Dreamgirls. It was a very, very, very coveted role.

• 10:24Speaker 04

  Yes, it was. But remember, there were no real roles. It was just about a girl group. And originally it was a girl group in the 50s. And then, you know, we started working and working and what we liked as young people, it was the 60s. So it became a girl group in the 60s. And that changed everything, everything. And it was Loretta Devine, myself and a woman by the name of Ramona Brooks. Ramona left the company. We went on a hiatus and then when we came back, uh, one day, I think it was Jamie, one of the dancers. He said, you all got to meet this girl across the street.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  And across Broadway and Seventh Avenue, there was a tiny little theater. And, uh, this phenom, 19 year old phenom Jennifer Holliday was singing in Your Arms Too Short to Box With God. And that's how she ended up joining. And it was a revolving door for a minute. You know, how artists start, start to carve out what they're going to be in a show when there isn't really anything. Cause we were born out of, you know, improv and things like that. Like very similar to a chorus line. It was about who we are. That whole thing about mama said I was special. She said, I've got to prove I am just as good. I'm even better than.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  That came out of a conversation with Tom Iron and myself. When my immigrant mother was, you know, had no time for mess around. You must do your work and come ready and prepared. Mama said I was special. She said, I've got to prove I am just as good. Yeah, my mother.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  What did your mother think of the show?

• 12:10Speaker 04

  Let me tell you, my mother was not very happy that, uh,

• 12:15Speaker 04

  oh my God, when I think about this, cause this really happened. My mother was not thrilled that I was going to spend her hard earned money to be an actress. You mean to tell me you're going to spend your life with all of those fake and phony people? What kind of life is that? When I got nominated for the Tony, she didn't want to go. Oh, she did not want to go. Now my father, he said, baby, I'm front and center. We are going, your mother doesn't want to go? That's quite all right. He also said something to me interesting that time. He said, you know, you come into the world with your mother, but you'll probably leave by yourself.

• 12:59Speaker 04

  So every choice that you make from then until the end, you better be happy with them. He and I went, when my mother saw that it was really real, when it was on TV. Are you kidding me? Was it Ed Wallace or something like that was talking about this amazing show and me? Dreamgirls. My mother's like, I have to be there.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:24Speaker 04

  And just like in the movies, cause she ended up sitting behind us. I could hear my mother, she said, you see her right there? The one to the right, that's Sheryl Lee Ralph. That's my daughter. Just like in the movies.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  And did it feel, how did that feel?

• 13:40Speaker 04

  Great. Great. You know, everything changes when your mother sees your name in lights. Everything really changes when you buy your mother a home or redo the one she has. Oh, everything, oh, it's wonderful then. Of course you should act. I'm so sorry. Yes.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  I was watching a movie yesterday, speaking of, and I saw in the corner of my eye, a Skippy Peanut Butter. It reminded me of when you skipped your college graduation.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  To star in a Skippy Peanut Butter commercial.

• 14:14Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  What did your mom say when that happened?

• 14:19Speaker 04

  First of all, I graduated early.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yes, 19.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  I was 19, so it was a whole year early. My parents weren't aware that I was going to walk with that class, which eventually became my class. So they were literally waiting for the next year.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Oh, so you got out of it.

• 14:40Speaker 04

  I got out of it completely. Besides, when I thought about it, sit in the sun for a piece of paper. They're going to send me anyway, or shoot this peanut butter commercial. Hot sun, peanut butter commercial. Very hot, long ceremony. Skippy Peanut Butter.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  That was it, baby. Skippy, you know, to this day, I keep Skippy Peanut Butter in my house because of Skippy Peanut Butter. I made enough money that I never had to do anything else, but concentrate on my career as an actress.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 15:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Did you, was it even like, how long did, was that decision making? Was it like 10 minutes, was it an hour? Or was it like, fuck this shit, I'm going to do the commercial.

• 15:31Speaker 04

  I'm doing to do the commercial, baby. It was bye bye. Yeah, I mean, it was, what, what was I going to think about? Are you kidding me? I'll never forget, they really wanted me to be in the very first class of the Mason Grove School of Fine Arts. And I remembered saying, Dr. Bettenbender, no, I'm going to be on Broadway. I'm going to go to show business. It's like, when? And I said, I don't know, but soon. And there I was, I was in a Skippy Peanut Butter commercial. I was on national TV and four or five years later, I was on Broadway. Sometimes you must follow your dreams. Sometimes no matter what anybody tells you is what you should do. You got to follow that thing in your gut.

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Because I would say 99% of the time, your gut is right. Maybe you need some prebiotics, some probiotics. I don't know, but usually your gut can speak to you quite properly.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  And how did your gut guide you to Deena Jones?

• 16:29Speaker 04

  Oh, wow. It was only about being honest, what it would take to embrace stardom. What, cause stardom's not for everybody. A lot of people, stardom involves people and you've got to love people. You've got to love getting up on stage and when you're tired, you've got to give them your best. Because it might be your 100th time doing it, but it's their first time seeing it. So you have to rise above the cold, rise above the headache, rise above who hurt your feelings. And come get in that character and deliver.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  So for me, Deena was all about just learning everything that Cheryl is even still learning in life. So for me, it was great to learn about what it is to show up for the public, for your public. What do you want them to see? How do you want them to feel when they see you? That doesn't happen by accident. Sometimes you work at it. Sometimes you make a plan for it. Sometimes you just come to it. But I always want to tell young artists, embrace it. If you're going to be here, be about it.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Do you remember one of your favorite shows you ever did?

• 17:53Speaker 04

  My very first film, my very first film, I would have to say, working with Mr. Sidney Poitier. As a young artist, to be in the company, being directed by a stellar human being. There are so few of them, you know? This was a wonderfully, perfectly imperfect human being who stood on business, who stood on what was right. And he embraced young people and he embraced me as a young artist. And for me, that meant everything.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Did Diana Ross ever see Dreamgirls on Broadway?

• 18:33Speaker 04

  Yes, she did see it, but she wasn't, she wasn't thrilled by it, you know?

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Really?

• 18:39Speaker 04

  I don't think she was thrilled by it because no matter how many times we said, it's not the Supremes. The dreams were not the Supremes. Everybody wanted to dig into the fact that it was the Supremes. When in fact, we were given strict orders. I could love and adore Diana Ross all I wanted, but I could not be her. I could not embody her because if we did that, we would get sued.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:09Speaker 04

  Right. And so we could not, we could not, in all of our improvisation, it was our, each of our lives improvisation. You know, our feelings about who we were, me, Loretta and Jennifer. You know, it was those, that's us. We were those people. Jennifer was that girl who at the time wasn't going to be on the cover of the album, you know? And what did that feel like? You know, Loretta was that girl who was going to stay in the background, you know? And she was going to come forward when she decided she had that story to tell, you know? And then Deena, she's your velvet cheerleader. She's here to win it. She's here to sing it.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  She's going to be forever your glam girl, your dream girl.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Do you remember your final show?

• 20:02Speaker 04

  Yes, I do. It was very unceremonial. And this really happened. It is the second act in the gold costume. One night only, one night only. Come on, big baby, come on. Baby, the light hit me. I couldn't remember not a blessed thing.

• 20:28Speaker 04

  Nothing. And I, I hear Loretta to me, one night only, one night only. Ralph, Ralph. And it's as if she's speaking Greek or Russian, maybe Chinese. But I can't remember not one word. And then I hear the stage manager, cause now we're in the future. And, uh, the stage manager is high up above the balcony, right? And I hear him saying to the stage manager on the ground, said her mic is dead. And then he says, mic's not dead, her brain's dead.

• 21:07Speaker 04

  That was the truth. And I realized that after being in the show, what, almost three years or so? Which at that time was a very long time to be in a show. But where were we gonna go? The opportunities were few and far between. So I realized if it had come to that, that maybe it was time to take a breather or do something different. And like in the movies, I get a call from a big casting agent at CBS by the name of Tim Flack. And Tim Flack says, if you come out here and audition for this series, you're gonna get it. And it was a series called V.

• 21:47Speaker 04

  And V was all about insects underground that had been planted here by Martians somewhere. I don't know. But all I know was, I ended up chopping off all of my hair. And the next time people saw me, I had this buzzed on the side, short, red spiked hair. And I had these two big guns and I was shooting insects on CBS. So that's what happened. I left to do the show and I never came back.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Did you miss it? Did you miss the eight days a week, the crazy?

• 22:21Speaker 04

  Eight days a week. Oh my gosh, no, not at all. The whole eight shows of it all. This interesting thing about the three women in Dreamgirls. The moment you get to the stage, you're not off the stage until the intermission. You're back on the stage, you're not off the stage until the finale, the curtain call. You're on stage the whole time. My feet feel it to this day, my back feels it to this day. I wear that show with me all the time.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Do you have any of the costumes still with you?

• 23:01Speaker 04

  I got my shoes. I've got my shoes and Felicia Ayers Rashad's shoes too, who was my understudy. And I remember Felicia Ayers Allen came in one day and she said, Felicia Rashad now. And she said, I was never born to be an understudy. And that was that. That was that. And what a miraculous, beautiful career she has had, moving herself to the forefront. And that I say to people all the time, know who you are. Know who you are. She knew exactly who she was. She knew exactly what she wanted to do.

• 23:43Speaker 04

  All she left me were her shoes and I still have them.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  When did you discover who you were?

• 23:49Speaker 04

  I'm still discovering who I am. Are you kidding me? For me, oh my God, yes. You know, that whole thing when Michelle Obama says becoming? I am still becoming Cheryl Lee Ralph. I remember little Cheryl Lee. I remember teen Cheryl Lee. I remember twenties, thirties, forties, fifties. I remember Cheryl Lee now in her sixties and I'm like, girl. What a journey and how wonderful. And be patient with yourself. Be far more patient with yourself than others might be with you. And give them grace when they're not.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  And how did you learn how to have patience? Cause that's something I struggle with every single day.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  My father. My father. My father looked at me one day, he said,

• 24:41Speaker 04

  you're so smart. You're so bright. Practice patience. Patience not just with yourself, but with others. Cause it'll take them a while to catch up to you. Patience, patience. Breathe deeply.

• 25:09Speaker 04

  I'm still breathing.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 25:12Speaker 04

  Now let it out.

• 25:17Speaker 04

  Sometimes you tell people to breathe deep, they just did like, no baby, breathe deep, let it out, fill up the lungs, fill up the abdomen, hold it. Cause I really believe that's a reset.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  It is, yeah. It really, box breathing is something that really helps me calm down when I'm having like real panic.

• 25:37Speaker 04

  Why, what are you panicked about?

• 25:41Speaker 04

  Oh my God.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  If a boy doesn't like me back.

• 25:44Speaker 04

  Well, who cares?

• 25:48Speaker 04

  Who cares?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  I do.

• 25:50Speaker 04

  No, you do not care whether he likes, he's a fool if he doesn't like you. Why would he not like you? With all the goodness you would have to offer anybody. He doesn't like you, he's not for you. It's like with me when people say you're too much, you need to go find less.

• 26:09Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  You don't even understand how much I needed to hear that today. Thank you.

• 26:17Speaker 04

  You're welcome.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  I really needed to hear that today.

• 26:19Speaker 04

  You're welcome.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a little bit about Abbott Elementary?

• 26:23Speaker 04

  Sure. One of my favorite things in the world. I have great pride in Abbott Elementary. I will fight for Abbott Elementary. I love Abbott Elementary like it's my child, yes.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  It is very rare that a show comes across with so many jokes per minute that hit every single time.

• 26:45Speaker 04

  You know how they say the proof is in the pudding? Well, for us, it's all in the scripts. It is a very well-written show. It's a diverse room of writers and they all come together, they think things through, and they make magic together.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Do you guys do a lot of improvisation on the show?

• 27:03Speaker 04

  Absolutely not.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Really?

• 27:05Speaker 04

  Absolutely not. I would say it's very much like a play. It is written and what's on the paper, there it is, is what you bring to the screen.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Do you have a favorite moment from that so far?

• 27:19Speaker 04

  It was actually a piece of improvisation. And this was the moment where they asked for it though. They had to ask you for it and you know, you had to, it was the desk, it's called desked. That episode, and that's when all, we find all the footprints on the desks. And you have to come in angry that you've been desked. And I said, sweet baby Jesus, and the grown one too. My desks have been desked. Yes. And that came about because my friend Norman and I, he would always say, sweet baby Jesus. And I would say, and the grown one too. And that was that and we just said it. But then I have another one.

• 28:02Speaker 04

  And who knew that you who would become a gif, would become a meme? That people would be looking at me and say, you who? And I was like, oh my goodness. Little baby Margaret comes in dressed like me because this is what a hundred year old looks like. And I'm like, well, why would you be dressed like me? And she says, cause you a hundred years old. Like, oh my gosh. That was such a good episode. I liked that one.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  God, it is such a great show.

• 28:33Speaker 04

  It is.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  So I feel like if you are from Philly, like it is such a Philly ingrained show. And I have a lot of people in my life from Philly.

• 28:43Speaker 04

  Oh, good people, strong people.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Strong people, passionate people.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  Let me tell you something. Philadelphians love Philadelphia. They love that genre, yes.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  And they love the Eagles.

• 29:03Speaker 04

  They love the Eagles. They live it, they breathe it, they will paint themselves green for it. Oh God, yes.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  I have never seen anything like it in my life. I like the Eagles now because of all the people in my life that are like, if you don't like the Eagles.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  That's it. Baby, let me tell you something. Philadelphia, although they have renamed it Lebronadelfia, because he has, he has come in for the 76ers. And the 76ers are gonna win this year, just like New York won the last year. The 76ers are gonna ring all the bells and they're gonna win this year.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  LeBron went to the 76ers?

• 29:44Speaker 04

  Baby, where have you been?

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Where have I been?

• 29:47Speaker 04

  Where have you been?

• 29:48Speaker 01

  I've been in Nick's world.

• 29:49Speaker 04

  Baby, baby, come on out, come on out. Yeah, he has moved, he's in Jersey now. Or no, I think maybe he's living in New York. So you know, he can get on that one hour train and be from Philadelphia to New York in one hour. They might even give him a special train, so.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  They would definitely give him a special train. Have you been converted into an Eagles fan because of the show?

• 30:12Speaker 04

  I have to be because my husband is a senator in Philadelphia. The seventh senatorial district, Senator Vincent Hughes. So I better bleed green too, yes.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Poppy. So I don't know if you guys know this, but back in the day when I was making like 18 TikToks a day, I would get on my TikTok and I would sing about Poppy. I would just sing. I would say, "It's Poppy time." I would make up random jingles. So it is so, such an honor now that Poppy now sponsors the podcast, given that it is my favorite soda in the entire world. And what I always say what is very cool that Poppy did was they, they brought soda back. They made soda cool again. And I know I've been talking about Sour Apple a lot, but one of my favorite flavors in the entire world is strawberry lemon. And I have it right here.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Oh, it's so good, so good. There's only five grams of sugar. It's like a better for you soda. I mean, you guys know, who doesn't know Poppy? Poppy is, Poppy has taken over the world in a way that I have not seen since kale. Kale. Yeah, I have not seen something take over the world like this since kale or avocado toast. Christmas is coming up, which means cranberry fizz, which is one of my favorites. And you can only get it during Christmas time. And obviously my favorite of all time, which is cherry limeade. I just love Poppy. I mean, who doesn't love Poppy? Soda's back, but so much better. Get Poppy at your local retailer today.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  What is it like being married to someone who doesn't do, like he works in politics?

• 31:52Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  And you work in entertainment?

• 31:55Speaker 04

  Believe it or not, my husband and I met in service. You know, for me, it was all about education, all about people. What can we do to make things better for people? That was me in my life. I met this man who doubles down on it. He lives it. He breathes it. My husband, I really don't feel he's a politician as much as he is a public servant. When my husband is no longer on this earth, he will have changed the lives of so many people in so many positive ways that they will never know anything about it. That's how committed he is.

• 32:41Speaker 04

  I always say, "Baby, do your service for the city, for this state right now, because there's something else calling you." He is so down for it that way. He loved, oh, when my husband and I first met, gave me this beautiful blue box with a white ribbon. I know what a Tiffany box looks like.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:03Speaker 04

  It didn't quite look like that shade. It didn't quite look that way, but I had hope. I opened it. Do you know what that man gave me?

• 33:14Speaker 01

  What did he give you?

• 33:14Speaker 04

  An almanac for the state of Pennsylvania. And he signed it so you will know more about all the things I truly love. The Keystone State, Pennsylvania. I was like, Lord have mercy, what have I gotten myself into?

• 33:37Speaker 01

  How did you guys meet? What was your first date?

• 33:39Speaker 04

  Blind date.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Blind date?

• 33:40Speaker 04

  Blind date.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Who set you guys up?

• 33:42Speaker 04

  I had a friend who was head of diversity, Cece, there at Paramount. And Cece said, "You've got to meet my friend, the senator." And I was like, "Yeah, right. Your friend, the senator." And she tried for years to get us together. 9/11 happened and he came to New York to do, what do you call it? They were testing the air because he felt that there could be repercussions from the air for the people. And, you know.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  And that wasn't talked about then at all.

• 34:15Speaker 04

  Not at all. But see, he's that man.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:18Speaker 04

  Right? So he had come for that. And I was doing Thoroughly Modern Milli.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  I was in Thoroughly Modern Milli as a kid.

• 34:24Speaker 04

  Oh, my God. I played Muzzy Van Hosmier.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  I played Jimmy.

• 34:29Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh. Jimmy, oh Jimmy, silly boy.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  What was the other one that I sang? It was, "What do I need with love?"

• 34:42Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh. Gavin Creel played, we lost Gavin Creel, but Gavin Creel played that on Broadway. Ah, and Sutton Foster.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:52Speaker 04

  Sutton Foster. Yeah, that was, that was quite a time.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Everything today is thoroughly modern.

• 34:59Speaker 04

  Oh, my goodness. Yes. We had a good time.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Do you miss, do you miss the stage? Do you miss musicals ever?

• 35:05Speaker 04

  You know what? I've been talking with a lot of folks. Leslie Odom and I were talking about, okay, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do together? And we've been throwing some things around because there's nothing like the applause of a real live audience. You know, it's like I love hearing when families sit together and watch Abbott, but I wish I could hear their laughter like I hear it on stage. Oh, my God, it's so amazing. It's like, give me more. Yeah, it's just the most incredible feeling.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  It's an undescribable feeling.

• 35:39Speaker 04

  It really is.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  It feels like someone's injecting you with like, you're like turning, it's like when Captain America turns into Captain America.

• 35:48Speaker 04

  And you're like. Touch me, touch me. That is it, baby. That is it. There's nothing, I enjoy it so much. Oh, my God. That's what really got me hooked on show business. I remember I was little. My dad was the musical director of, was it Danbury Musical Theater for the summer? You know, they used to have summer stock and all of that. And they did the Helen Keller story. And there were two little black children in it. So my father was like, "I got two little black children." And we had, we were in the show, but the little boy had the lines. So every night when my brother Stanley would talk,

• 36:28Speaker 04

  I'd be thinking, "It should be me. It should be me. I should have the lines." And I would just get to look at him. And there is a picture somewhere. I saw it. And I'm just looking at him and I'm, the bubble should say, "Shut up. Those are my lines."

• 36:46Speaker 04

  The sound of applause did it to me. Need it on the main line, baby. Gotta have it. Yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Wait, that's so funny that your father led all these theater productions, but your mother was so against it.

• 37:01Speaker 04

  Because it was play.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:03Speaker 04

  That was play to her. This wasn't the way you're gonna spend your life. Besides, my dad was a principal. He might have been the music teacher at one time, you know? He might have been the assistant principal. He's a principal. So she's like, "No, he's got a job. This is play. This is fun."

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Did you channel any of what your mother used to say to you in Sister Act Two?

• 37:27Speaker 04

  All the time. All that, that's, that stern mother. That mother saying, "Don't let me have to tell you one more time. Rita, Rita Louise Watson, if you don't get up here, when were you gonna tell me that you're in a choir?" Oh, yeah. That's my mother talking to me, except with a Jamaican accent.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. You grew up in between New York and Jamaica, right?

• 37:53Speaker 04

  That's right. I love when people do their research. Thank you.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 37:57Speaker 04

  First of all, it was great. It was great because, you know, there's a wonderful thing that immigrants bring with them. Culture. Their culture. And in this wonderful dreamland, because I believe America is a dreamland where that you can, where you can have that statue that says, "Bring me, you're tired. Bring me, you're weary. Bring them here." And of course I'm paraphrasing, "And we will make something wonderful together, a great soup together. And it's gonna taste good because of all of the seasoning and the sauce we're gonna put in that soup."

• 38:41Speaker 04

  You know, if the soup were just one seasoning, it would be bland. The soup would not taste good. But with all of the immigrants that come, they come to America. That's, those aren't the exact words, notes, but you know what I meant.

• 39:03Speaker 04

  You know, I mean, I think about that and I think about the culture. I think about when they would have, you know, they used to have Culture Day in class, you know? And you would dress up in your, your country costume and you would talk about it. I remember, you know, putting on my bandana and we have something called Ake and Salt Fish. And it's, it's yellow. It looks like scrambled eggs. And my mother would scramble the eggs to look like Ake and Salt Fish. And I would talk about Jamaica and we had this great woman named Miss Lou, who used to talk in Labrish, you know? Because sometimes in Jamaica, we put the wrong emphasis, we put the emphasis on the wrong syllable.

• 39:46Speaker 04

  Right? We have a different way of talking. And we take our time and we move with the music and life because we love it, baby. We can feel it. Oh, my God. And I would sing my song. "Long time gal, me never see you. Come make we wheel and turn", which means let us dance together, you know? So I remember that. And I remember this one kid, he put on one of those big 10-gallon hats. And of course, it was just like in a cartoon. The hat came down to here. He was probably in his dad's boots. And the boots were too big, but he did that little country line there.

• 40:25Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh. I remember when we used to, you just have fun with your friends to see where did your people come from? And it was something to be proud of because you came and brought something wonderful to America.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  What do you, do you, do you find yourself going back to Jamaica often these days?

• 40:42Speaker 04

  Oh, I do. Yeah. My mother.

• 40:46Speaker 04

  My mother loved the house so much. She left me the house. And she said, "Don't sell grandma's yard." So we go back to Jamaica often. I love Jamaica. And I was honored to receive the honor of being, now I'm the Honorable Cheryl Lee Ralph Order of Jamaica. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  And didn't you also win Miss New York?

• 41:13Speaker 04

  Oh, my goodness. Believe it or not, I was the first runner-up in the Miss Black Teenage America Pageant. But you see how fame can be? All of these years, everybody, and it's been written that I was the winner.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I read.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  See? And I'm, and I find now it's like, no, I want to, want to really correct it because the woman, the young woman, the teenager at the time, oh, my God, she's incredible. She's a voice, um, she's a voice coach, a very well-established, well-respected voice coach from Juilliard. And she's just outstanding. And she's had a wonderful career. She was the winner. I was the first runner-up. I just became me.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  What did that pageant look like? What did you, what did you do? What did you, did you perform?

• 42:09Speaker 04

  I performed. I sang, "Summertime, and the leafy leaves easy." And what was interesting about that was, you know, you, you think about that time, and there weren't many dolls of color, right? And I wanted to hold a black doll. So I remember I took my mother's makeup and I painted the doll. I blackface that white girl.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, I did. I did. And I wrapped her in the swaddling cloth. And I looked at her and I was like, "Oh, my God, look what I did to you."

• 42:50Speaker 04

  Oh, oh. But we won. We won.

• 42:57Speaker 04

  We won that talent part. I loved it.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  What did you do with the doll onstage?

• 43:01Speaker 04

  Oh, I kept, oh, I held her.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 43:04Speaker 04

  I held her and I sang to her, "Yes, your mother's good-looking. I may be a funny-looking teenager, but that's all right, baby. I'm gonna grow up. We're gonna be good together 'cause you really look ugly now." But, yeah. Oh, the makeup was all over the face. Oh, my gosh.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Did anyone say anything at the time? Or were they just?

• 43:24Speaker 04

  My friend Angela, who, Carol, her name was Carol then, but she's now Angela. And she said, "Cheryl, why did you ruin the doll? Why couldn't you find a black doll?" And I was like, "I didn't have the black doll that was the right size." Because, you know, it has to, you know, like with acting, you have to find the right size. You have to find the right weight and all of that. I guess I was a method actor even as a kid. I was trying to get it right. Yes, so I painted her face.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Do you find yourself to be method when you're acting?

• 43:58Speaker 04

  I will remember things about people just because I looked at them. I will remember how they look. I remember how they walked. I remember how they talk. And I realize that sometimes with people, you have to accept them right where they are. That's life. When people are unhappy, there's one thing they're real good at. That's making sure that everybody around them is unhappy.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 04

  That's what happens.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  I did that earlier today.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  What'd you do?

• 44:42Speaker 01

  I was, I was unhappy about something and I found myself, I like caulked myself in the moment being like picking a fight with a friend.

• 44:52Speaker 04

  For no good reason.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  No reason, no reason. If, if, and I knew it because if I wasn't feeling unhappy in that moment, I wouldn't have given two shits about what I picked the fight about.

• 45:00Speaker 04

  Thank you. But you had to bring your negativity to your good friend because you felt so bad, you had to make sure they felt just a little bit bad. That's a, that's one of those flaws that we all have to work at. We want to bring our best to the world. Too many people are at ease bringing their negativity to the world. And sometimes they think that that makes them special because they could make somebody feel less than instead of making somebody feel better. I want that person who feels unseen to realize, "Baby, you're perfect. That's what God gave you? That's what you got.

• 45:44Speaker 04

  You are perfect just the way you are. Go on and walk in it. Go on and be it." You know, it's almost like when some people come to stardom, they feel they have to be nasty. Why do you feel you must be nasty? It's so not-nice. And then people say, "Well, that's what fame does." No, no, no, no, no. Fame doesn't make people nasty. Fame relaxes people to show you, to give them the space to show you just how nasty they are. They were nasty when they came to the game. So now that you're fawning all over them,

• 46:29Speaker 04

  they want to show you just how nasty they can really be. Uh-huh. That's right. When you're around really, if you've ever been around when I was, oh, my God, to meet somebody like a Paul Newman, to meet somebody like a, oh, my God, I met him in passing. I was really young, Cary Grant. Oh, to meet a Nina Simone. Now, Nina Simone gave people hell at times, but she was frustrated because she wanted better out of the world, period. Mississippi, goddamn.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  When did you meet Nina Simone?

• 47:15Speaker 04

  I met Nina Simone, I was in Cannes. I was in Cannes and, oh, my God, to meet Gregory Peck. Oh, my goodness, I met him in Cannes, too. And they just, they wanted to stop. They wanted to talk to you. "How are you?" You know, Nina Simone looked at me and she said, "I know you, Cheryl Lee Ralph. I know you."

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 47:39Speaker 04

  Yeah. I, I was able to look at, at, um, what's his name and say, "Thank you. Thank you for, I know, the Mockingbird. Thank you." And he said, "It's important to tell people stories." One of these days I have to sit down and think about all the people that I've met at different times of my life. It's, sometimes it shocks me. It's like, yeah, but.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  What's the most starstruck you've ever been?

• 48:07Speaker 04

  You know, I come from that place that's scary. You know, don't meet your heroes? Don't meet them. Because sometimes they'll disappoint you.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Did that happen to you?

• 48:17Speaker 04

  Oh, God, yes. But it doesn't matter. But you know who's really a wonderful human being? And all of her success now does not shock me because from the moment I first met her, I was on a series called Designing Women. She welcomed me with a big smile. "Sit here." Jean Smart.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  I love Jean Smart.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Of course you do. Jean Smart's quite lovable. Jean Smart's quite wonderful. Jean Smart's a real human being. Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I got the honor to work with Jean Smart, I remember I was sitting with her and, because it was in between takes and she was just such a storyteller. And it was, I think, her way of making everyone in the room comfortable because she understood like her gravitas as a human.

• 49:09Speaker 04

  That's her.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 04

  She's good people.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  She's good people.

• 49:13Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Do you keep in touch with Miss Lauryn Hill at all?

• 49:19Speaker 04

  Yes. Every now and then, I get to say a hello. You know, get to, just, just in passing. But every time she sees me, it's always a wonderful embrace. It's always a great smile. I remember when she was very young and we were there shooting Sister Act 2, she said, "Ms. Ralph, I'm gonna have a band and it's gonna be called The Fugees." And I remember thinking, "Girl, I know you're gonna have a band, but you might want to rethink that name."

• 50:00Speaker 01

  You said that to her?

• 50:02Speaker 04

  Out loud. Out loud. And she said, "Ms. Ralph, you should get it. Fugees, refugees." And I was like.

• 50:17Speaker 04

  But she was right. Once again, that was a young person who stood in the place of knowing who they were, what they wanted, and where they were going in life. Her success at any level does not shock me because at 16 years old, she knew what she wanted. You know, it's like looking like, looking at athletic greats like Lisa Leslie. Lisa Leslie, when she tells you a story, she was on her way for greatness. Stood in it, no matter how difficult the trajectory looked. Yeah. I don't think a 16-year-old Lauryn Hill was even thinking about how difficult it was. No, she knew what she was gonna do. She did it.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  She really, she did it.

• 50:59Speaker 04

  Yeah. She's doing it still.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:01Speaker 04

  I don't care if she's late.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  And she has the, the credentials.

• 51:07Speaker 04

  Two hours.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  I'd wait for.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  I would. "Miss Education of Lauryn Hill" is one of the greatest albums of all time.

• 51:14Speaker 04

  And that's what I love. Wait for it. Wait for it. You're gonna wait for it. I love it.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Are you gonna see her at the Bowl?

• 51:22Speaker 04

  I certainly hope so. It's November 8th.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanna go. We were just talking about it. We were all talking about it. We all said we were gonna get super high and go see it.

• 51:30Speaker 04

  Why do you have to be high to see it?

• 51:32Speaker 01

  To experience the magic.

• 51:35Speaker 04

  You have to be high to experience magic?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  It makes it a little more magical.

• 51:39Speaker 04

  What kinda high? Gummy high, smoking high? What kinda high? Alcohol high?

• 51:45Speaker 01

  No, no. You know what I discovered recently? I don't know if alcohol is for me.

• 51:49Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  I love that. I don't know if it's for me. I've been really, it makes me really sad.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  It makes me really, really sad. I got home the other night and I was so sad.

• 52:03Speaker 04

  Uh huh. See, what happens is the alcohol puts you off balance. Life is about balance and you've got to make the kind of choices that puts you, keep you in balance. When we get off balance in life, that's when we start making the mistakes.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:23Speaker 04

  You've got to keep a well-balanced or balanced to the best of your ability.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, I remember, I'll never forget it. I like woke up one, I think it was like last weekend. I, I didn't drink because I'm in that era of like my life where all my friends are going out drinking every single weekend because they're all, they all just moved to New York.

• 52:44Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  And that's like, and I remember I didn't go out one night and I woke up and I was like, I'm not hungover.

• 52:50Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  And I feel amazing.

• 52:53Speaker 04

  Wow. Hold on to that feeling.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:56Speaker 04

  Now that's when you can see real magic in life. Hold on to that feeling.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Do you believe in magic? Like real and true magic?

• 53:06Speaker 04

  There's absolutely magic. Are you kidding me? We're having it right now.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  I know.

• 53:11Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  I feel it.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  I'm telling you.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Last night when I was watching the movie and I saw the Skippy Peanut Butter, I said, no way. And then last week, I walked by a display of, at a bodega and they had this huge wall of Skippy Peanut Butters.

• 53:27Speaker 04

  Skippy's coming back, baby.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  It is. It's the best peanut butter.

• 53:30Speaker 04

  Bring my magic back.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  You, they need to cast you in a new Skippy Peanut Butter commercial.

• 53:35Speaker 04

  It'll probably happen. The magic's gonna happen right now. Manifest that ish. Manifest it.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Thank you, Deep Pop, for sponsoring tonight's episode. I feel so special because I am in my vintage secondhand era. I've been wearing a lot of vintage clothing. So I'm going to the Strokes Friday and I am so pumped because a shirt that I got from Deep Pop, it's vintage Strokes merch. I'm gonna wear it to the Strokes. Concert merch is my favorite thing on planet Earth. I don't know what it is about it. It's like this feeling like, it's like a little like club. Like it's like something like one, it's like very one of one. It's like a collector's item. I love collecting stuff and I like collecting stuff through clothing. And so Deep Pop makes it so easy too because it is one of the best places to buy and sell

• 54:29Speaker 01

  secondhand clothing. It literally only takes a few seconds to list your first item and there's no seller fees. Any excuse to shop I will take. So I have been scrolling Deep Pop for fall and winter wear that I am so excited to wear. Download the Deep Pop app today to start selling. Someone out there is already searching for your style. I know I am.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  You lead life with such positivity.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  But if there was one thing that you would be therapist about, angry about today, what would that be?

• 55:02Speaker 04

  You know something? I always have to, it, for me, it's always a thing about going deep because my, when I was little, my dad had this sign and he put it on my desk and it said, "Think." So I'm always thinking, thinking. I just want there to be a time when people can settle into a place where they can figure out how to like themselves more. Because the more they like themselves, the better they can be to everybody else. And we are in a place right now in the world that I never thought I'd see.

• 55:45Speaker 04

  Never thought that I would see people use their platforms for such an out loud hate. I never thought that I would see that. I would never, I never thought that I would see a time when children could become targets and it would be okay. I never thought that I would see that. I never thought that we would come back around to a place where people would want to say,

• 56:25Speaker 04

  let us just erase the history and let us just write it the way we want it to be. Instead of knowing that you must know where you came from. You got to know what the journey has been so that you can know where you're going. And very often, people don't know the journey and they think it started right where they are. No. A lot happened before you got here.

• 56:59Speaker 04

  I'd be, I'm pissed about that.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Does your work with the Diva Foundation ever make you feel like you are able to make a change?

• 57:09Speaker 04

  My father would always tell me, if you change or help one person, you have done a lot. And I am the person that has experienced the young man who came up to me and he said, "Miss Ralph, I'm here because of you. You saved my life. You came to my college. You talked about HIV. You talked about AIDS. I got tested and it's me, but you saved my life."

• 57:36Speaker 01

  I actually wanted to talk to you about that because you, you, I read something that you said, that you said you were performing as Deena Jones every night and it was the most magical time of your life, but there were days where your friends just suddenly weren't there anymore.

• 57:52Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  And it reminded me of something my parents said once when they, um, because they lived in New York during the AIDS epidemic as well. And they said that they went to the dog park every day with this guy and then suddenly one day he just wasn't, was gone.

• 58:09Speaker 04

  For me, you know, I, I've said this often, you could sing and dance with somebody one day and the next day, they'd be fighting for their life, trying to live. I'll never forget, I lived, um, I lived on the corner of 18th and 8th. It's probably a restaurant by now or a bank hallway, but, um, my neighbors across the street, oh, two handsome young men. You know what I mean? Just, just handsome. And they would, they would love to see me go out to the theater, right? Because they knew I was going. They loved Dreamgirls and they would love to say, look at what I was wearing, how I

• 58:51Speaker 04

  was dressed because at that time, baby, I would dress up coming out my door. Oh, my mother was always done. Yes. Well, I, my, my, I knew that the crowds wanted to see me looking good and I was gonna look good for the crowds. I was gonna show up at that door looking like Deena Jones. And months went by and I only saw one of them. So I went over there. I remember it was a Wednesday. It was early on the matinee. And I knocked on the door. And he came to the door and I said, "Well, where's your partner?" And he said, "One minute." And he came back carrying a skeleton.

• 59:38Speaker 04

  And I was like,

• 59:42Speaker 04

  whoa. And at that time, you know, the Carposis, you know, when they get those marks and stuff, it was.

• 59:55Speaker 04

  It was horrible. And he held him.

• 1:00:01Speaker 04

  And that, that was one of those moments that kind of just changed everything for me. And, you know, to see how unkind people could be to other human beings who are literally fighting for their lives. Literally.

• 1:00:19Speaker 04

  And for me, it was never just men, it was men and women, because I was, I was seeing that. And then the intersection with crack and all up in Harlem, I was seeing black people being taken out. Oh my God, it was horrible. So I, I saw it as full circle for me. And then I realized that sometimes people don't like you if you tell the truth.

• 1:00:45Speaker 04

  Sometimes people don't like you if you give them another way of thinking. You know, they don't like it, they don't want to hear it, you know? And that was a very, very frightening time. And it changed me very much as a human being. And when I think about that and I ask God, why? Why did I have to see that, God? Why? But it let me know people are people. People want to be seen. You know, it doesn't matter if they're gay, straight, trans, whatever, people all want the basic things to be seen and to be respected as a human being. And I feel in life, that's not, it shouldn't be a very difficult thing to give to other human beings. Why not?

• 1:01:31Speaker 04

  Why not?

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Should just be as simple as that.

• 1:01:35Speaker 04

  I would think, but sometimes I realize in life, sometimes it's so simple, it's complicated. Yeah. But that's why I started Diva. Divinely inspired, victoriously alive, awesome, aware. It's Sunday, so we are anointed. Yeah.

• 1:01:55Speaker 04

  Diva Foundation. And, you know, we just, for me, it's always been about raising awareness and using the power of the arts. Because I believe the, the arts can change everything. You know, when you can deliver a message that's hard to take in, but that you can get people to laugh, you know?

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:14Speaker 04

  It goes deeper sometimes. And so, we've been doing it for 35 years now, which is just amazing. Because what I did as an embryo, my God, yeah.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  What are, what are some of the things that Diva does? Like what are some of the activations you guys do?

• 1:02:34Speaker 04

  Well, one of the things that we did was, and what that young man who said I saved his life, was I wrote a, a series of monologues called Sometimes I Cry. And they were all about different kinds of women who were facing HIV and AIDS. And I toured with that for almost 10 years.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:57Speaker 04

  Which was crazy, the number of people that have seen it. And now we're on our third documentary. And, you know, I, I do a lot of focusing around women and the disease, because back in the day, when I said, if sex could be a problem for men, women could not be too far behind. And then if we're talking about women, we're talking about children. People said, no, you're way out on a limb here, can we just keep it focused over here? Look where we are now. It's women, especially women across the South and women of color. So, you know, I want to tell those stories. And we've been nominated now for our second Emmy around our work, you know, doing these documentaries.

• 1:03:39Speaker 04

  Zeraraya Newman and I, Norman Lee, we work to continue to tell the stories. And when it comes to World AIDS Day on Hulu, Hulu's been a big supporter. And it's hard when you look at it and you say, why aren't there more people talking about what is going around, on, still around HIV and AIDS? Why is nobody telling those stories? Why are we still seeing so many sexually active young people who are not taking their own health into consideration? Because they don't know.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  They don't know.

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  They don't know! And I say, that's why we continue to raise awareness. We continue to not be afraid to talk about it. Because I believe if you're gonna have sex, it should be safe. It should not, you should not end up with something that you're gonna have to carry with you for the rest of your life. Because, you know, good sex shouldn't end up, like shingles. Shingles lasts forever. You, you don't want that.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Speaker 04

  You know? So it's those sort of things. I'm like, talk to your children. And sometimes parents are like, but I don't want to have the conversation. Well, did you not have sex to have that child? Come on now, can we be real about this?

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, also, I, I think it's, it's crazy. I, I didn't know what prep was until the first time I had sex.

• 1:05:10Speaker 04

  Come on, do you know how many women don't know that prep is not just for men? That prep is for men and women? They don't know because they haven't been told. That's why I say we use the arts to continue to talk to people. Baby, you got to take good care of yourself, because you're wonderful, you're perfectly made, and you should have a good life. And a good sex life.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Exactly. And a good, and a good sex life only comes when you're being safe.

• 1:05:45Speaker 04

  Thank you. Absolutely. What do they say? Although I did see a sign, it said, eat safely, use condiments.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  I think that prep should be talked about and taught of in schools the same way condoms are.

• 1:06:00Speaker 04

  There used to be a time in school when they would talk about health. Your overall health and well-being. They would talk about it. You know, there were, there were the classes. You know, what is sex? What are the sexual organs? I do not know why people want to hide the information from children. And I always say this, if you don't have the conversation with children about all things sexual, somebody else will. And what they will teach them, what they will talk about with them, is usually not what you would want them to hear. So why don't you gather the information and have the talk properly?

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:06:41Speaker 04

  A hundred percent. Because I am a hundred percent. Thank you. Keep it a hundred. Yes. Thank you, thank you.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  I just, I really admire all the work that you do with your foundation. So I just, I really wanted to be able to spot like that.

• 1:06:56Speaker 04

  Oh, thank you very much.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  And I know it's a difficult thing to talk about, so I just want to thank you.

• 1:07:00Speaker 04

  But see, it's not a difficult thing for me to talk about. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we talk about it?

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  I think it goes back to what you were talking about earlier, where miserable, miserable people want people to be miserable.

• 1:07:14Speaker 04

  And I, for me, it's like with education. I believe, one of the greatest gifts I've ever been given is that of a good education.

• 1:07:26Speaker 04

  To be able to read, to be able to write, to be able to think, you know? That's education. All children deserve the best education they can possibly be given, no matter what zip code they live in. And this whole thought that some children deserve education more than others, that's bad thinking. All children deserve to be well-educated. Because they will grow up, and if you have not educated them, they will become ignorant.

• 1:08:07Speaker 04

  They don't deserve that, just because you deserve, you thought, oh, they don't value, they're not, they're not of any value. That's bad thinking.

• 1:08:19Speaker 04

  Children, as anybody that has a brain, a brain is a terrible thing to waste. I used to say that all the time at the UNCF. A br, a mind, a brain. You never know what is in a child's brain. That child that you ignored could have the cure for cancer in their brain. And you need that cure.

• 1:08:44Speaker 04

  Cancer right now is rampant around young people.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  My dad has been telling me this every single day. He's been calling me about this every single day.

• 1:08:52Speaker 04

  It is horrible. A young man, my son's friend, ugh, died the other day. He told, this is all within 30 days now.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so sorry.

• 1:09:05Speaker 04

  All within 30 days. On the first day, he told his mother, I have cancer. On the 12th day, he was dead of that cancer. 12 days later, he was cremated.

• 1:09:23Speaker 04

  Took him out like that. Once again, there's so many things going on around that we do not talk about. He had the sickle cell trait. And a lot of African Americans and Jewish people have a thing called sickle cell. And with this trait, you know, the blood cell looks like a sickle. And there's a very rare cancer connected to it. That young man got it. He was gone in 12 days. So it's just that serious. So, but there's another thing that I see happening a lot with young people. They don't want to be outside. They don't want to be outside.

• 1:10:08Speaker 04

  They want to stay inside, as if it's, as if life won't reach you because you're staying inside. Get out there, live your life, be brave, be of good courage. Do the best you can with your life, not just for yourself, but for somebody else.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  I think so many people today are so terrified of being perceived because online, like, to, like, post-COVID, really, to be cringe, or to, or, like, to be yourself is almost to be cringe. And like, there will be these, I don't know how online you are, but, like, this, it's, it's like a middle school classroom on there, sometimes, honestly. And it makes people afraid to leave the house and be themselves and be, because people are just getting videoed left and right. Random people you don't know are on the internet being made fun of. And I think people think, well, that could be me if I leave my house.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  I know that sounds so silly, but...

• 1:11:18Speaker 04

  What kind of life are you leading? What kind of life are you leading that you would be afraid for anybody to see you doing whatever? That's something that we sometimes need to think about. How do you present outside in life? What is it about you that you don't want people to see? Are you behaving in such a way that would be awful? I remember when I was coming up in show business, I'd be offered a lot of these things to be naked. And my choice was not to be naked, because I didn't want my father to see me naked like that. You know? I didn't want people in church to see me naked like that, but that was my choice. What's going on in your life?

• 1:11:59Speaker 04

  And I'm not saying you've got to be a saint, but you don't want, there's nothing worse than seeing somebody toe down drunk in real life or on camera.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:11Speaker 04

  There's nothing wrong with, there's nothing wrong with just being your authentic self if you're okay with everybody seeing you just like that. Because what is done in the dark will always come to light. Your grandmother, your great-grandmother, your great-great-great-great-great-grandmother. They said it, and they were right. So don't be afraid, live your life, live your best life. But it's gotta be your best life. You know, a lot of people are on camera, doing a lot of things they don't want people to see. If you don't want them to see it, make sure they don't.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  I know, I, I sometimes catch myself feeling that way, and that's why I overshare.

• 1:12:54Speaker 04

  Like how?

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Like, I'll tell every, like, I'll, like, trauma dump on someone, or just tell everybody everything about me just to make sure that no one catches me off guard.

• 1:13:04Speaker 04

  Wait, it doesn't matter whether they catch you off guard. It's about you. You catch yourself off guard. Who, who is gonna be the best person to stand up for you? Them, trust me, I don't care who the them are, them, they, the people, they will throw you under the bus in a minute. You better be able to take care of yourself. You better know what you want. You better know what you're capable of, because them, whoever they are, they worried about you.

• 1:13:45Speaker 04

  Don't get me started.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:13:48Speaker 04

  Shoot. About ready to fly off this doggone couch. You know, that's why I like that show Survivor.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  You watch Survivor?

• 1:13:58Speaker 04

  No. But I like it.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:03Speaker 04

  But you want to know why I like it? Oh, Traitors, too.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  I love Traitors.

• 1:14:08Speaker 04

  Traitors, I don't watch that either, but I did see one. Traitors, okay, so this last Traitors, they, they voted somebody off. And that, when they voted the person off, they said, why did you vote them off? They were so nice, and they were really smart. They said, that's why I voted them off, I want to win. She was too smart, she was too nice. You gotta vote her off. If you want to win, you gotta get rid of the winners.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  I'm glad it was Donna Kelsey.

• 1:14:37Speaker 04

  Who was it?

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  It was Donna Kelsey.

• 1:14:39Speaker 04

  Whoever it was.

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  Was it an older white woman?

• 1:14:41Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  I don't know, but they got rid of her. They said, no, no, no, and they said, no, she's smart, she's gonna win, get rid of her. And then with Survivor, with Survivor, I realized, don't be a survivor. Don't think about the people, because the people will crucify you. They will come together as a group, and you will be doing good for them. You will be thinking, I'm down for you, we're gonna do this together. They will crucify you. I was like, oh my God. And then I thought back to kindergarten, okay? I had this great teacher, Miss Spence, Miss Spencer, or Miss Spence.

• 1:15:25Speaker 04

  Miss Spencer, oh my God. She used to, I, there was a show called Donna Reed, and Donna Reed would always look so beautiful white woman. These big stiff skirts. My mother used to wear those dresses, you know, the short sleeves and nice collars and their little pearls and everything. Miss Spencer. One day, Miss Spencer looked at me, and Miss Spencer made me feel seen, you know? You're talking about the 60s, she held my hand and wanted me right beside her, you know, at a time when it could have been so many other things. But she said, you're a tall flower. And I said, and I felt really good, I was a tall flower. She said, just remember what happens to tall flowers.

• 1:16:10Speaker 04

  And I said, what happens? She said, they cut them off. And she explained to me that if you're a tall flower in the garden, they want all of the flowers to be the same height. And if one flower stands out, they're gonna cut it off, because they don't want that flower to shine too much. She said, just remember, they cut off tall flowers. That doggone kindergarten teacher gave me a lesson that day that stuck with me. I'm still learning. Baby, they will chop off a tall flower in a minute.

• 1:16:48Speaker 04

  They will say, off with your head, and you didn't do anything but use the fertilizer real well. Point your head to the sun and say, shine on me. And you got all them other little flowers looking at you and say, why the hell she shining so much? Why the heck you got to look so good? Why? Off with her head!

• 1:17:15Speaker 01

  But it's all right. How do you keep yourself from getting cut as a tall flower? What have you learned?

• 1:17:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, for me, all I had to do was keep living. All I had to do was keep shining. All I had to do was keep loving people to the best of my ability, because I'm down for you. I want you to succeed. I want you to be better than me. That's why I say to this next generation, get out there, live your life. Take your education seriously. AI can only be as smart as you. Don't be the dumb one around the computer. You have got to harness it. You have got to set up the guidelines.

• 1:18:07Speaker 04

  This is your future. I had a cassette and a CD, you got the whole world. Harness your world, live your life. You can't live your life just from your tiny room, baby. We've seen those movies, and it never ends up well. Get out there and live your life, read my books.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  You are also an incredible author.

• 1:18:33Speaker 04

  Thank you. Thank you. I like writing.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  What do you love about writing?

• 1:18:39Speaker 04

  Writing makes you remember. You know, when you have to write something, you have to remember. And for the most part, you have to remember the truth. And if the truth is too much, then you write a novel. Because when you write a novel, you can tell all the truth you want. Just change the sex, change the name, change the situation, keep the dialogue.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Uh huh. That is, that's, that's how I feel as well.

• 1:19:08Speaker 04

  That's it.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  It's, you, you always want to be able to tell your story and your truth and what's going on with you, but you never want to throw someone under the bus.

• 1:19:20Speaker 04

  And we've also seen how that plays out when you spend your time bad-mouthing people, when you spend your time being nasty to people, when you spend your time throwing people and their emotions under the bus. You create a certain karma, and it will bite you. And it may happen when you least expect it. Uh huh. We've all seen it. We've all seen it. There's a line in Dreamgirls, and I know you've, you know it. James "Thunder" Early, when they're bout ready to tell James "Thunder" Early he is nothing and nobody,

• 1:20:05Speaker 04

  James "Thunder" Early says, "I was here before you, and I'll be here long after you're gone. A showbiz just a showbiz."

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Greatest musical of all time.

• 1:20:43Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  Greatest musical of all time.

• 1:20:45Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:20:46Speaker 01

  It's, ah, my god, have you heard the Dreamgirls soundtrack?

• 1:20:51Speaker 04

  It's worth listening to.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  It is, and it, the Broadway original.

• 1:20:55Speaker 04

  The original Broadway cast, yes. The O B C soundtrack, that's right.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  I need to show you something, will you go and grab my phone? Inside, it's inside the house, I used to sing, um, and I'm telling you, I'm not going to myself all, all the time when I was a kid.

• 1:21:12Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  When I took this podcast on tour, um, I would play it in front of everyone, and I would always hide, because it was so funny, it was funny, I know, like, I'm able to laugh at myself.

• 1:21:23Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  But I'm so excited to show it to you right now.

• 1:21:27Speaker 04

  Come on, I wanna see it.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  That's why, I needed this today.

• 1:21:31Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  I was crying all morning.

• 1:21:34Speaker 04

  Why?

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  Because the boy didn't like me back. I know, I know, I know, I know.

• 1:21:41Speaker 04

  It doesn't matter.

• 1:21:42Speaker 01

  I know it doesn't matter, but it felt like, ah, I just felt so ugly, I just felt so ugly, and I felt so, I was like, oh, this is why I don't put myself out there, oh, this is why I don't do that.

• 1:21:57Speaker 04

  You know, I was a funny looking kid for a very long time, I was really funny looking, and they would make, ah, they would really make fun of me, they used to call me liver lips, they used to tell me I was too black, they used to say stuff was wrong with my hair, oh my god, it was horrible, I remember one time, I, was it brownies, I was a brownie or a Girl Scout or something, and one of the mothers, one of the mothers of one of the girls said something about the fact, thank goodness that nose jobs are becoming popular, because I'm gonna need one.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so sorry.

• 1:22:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, and I, sometimes, that, in writing, you have to remember these things in writing, you know, and you, you have to put them to tell people's stories, especially when they're yours, it can be hard, but, life passes, if you take care of yourself, I've taken care of myself, this is how I look.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  I mean, you look unbelievable.

• 1:23:05Speaker 04

  Thank you, this is how I look, this is how I look, this is the same nose that they said I'd need a nose job, it's the same nose, these are the same lips that they said were liver lips, this is the same complexion that they said was just too black, this is the same, right? Look at me now, patience, patience with myself, patience with those around me, it was their ignorance talking, it was their sadness talking, they didn't know any better, and

• 1:23:45Speaker 04

  trust me, that boy that didn't like you now, you should be so blessed to be around thirty years from now, doing what it is you love, you will be looking at him and he will be good to no one.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:00Speaker 04

  No one.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  Except the guy that he likes right now.

• 1:24:03Speaker 04

  Who cares? Who cares?

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 1:24:07Speaker 04

  You see, what happens is, you wanna sit in these feelings about him and this other man.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it feels good to like, sit in the sadness.

• 1:24:15Speaker 04

  This is what we've been talking about, get out of it, snap out of it!

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 1:24:21Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh, your, your, your prince, your king could be around the corner, and he can't see you like this, he won't be attracted to you like this, put on your best self and go live your life, what you up there, you fishing for somebody? No, you're not, you live your life, shoot, all those guys that didn't have time for me thirty years ago, they look like a worn shoe now, and look at me.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Beauty queen.

• 1:25:04Speaker 04

  Thank you. Dreamgirl.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  Wow, I really, really needed to hear that, wow, thank you.

• 1:25:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, you gotta, what does my book say? The one that's coming up, you've got to look in the mirror and love what you see, love what you see, I said it in my speech, people don't have to like you, people don't have to respect you, they don't even have to love you, but when you look in the mirror, you better love what you see, mhm.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  I'm so excited to read your upcoming book.

• 1:25:42Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  What's it called?

• 1:25:44Speaker 04

  You Better Love What You See.

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  And when is it out?

• 1:25:51Speaker 04

  It'll be out April 6th, so you can preorder it now, if you follow me at all on Instagram, you can go right there, and there's a link right there to preorder, cuz you know, it's all about the preorders.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  It's all about the preorders, it's all about the preorders, that's how you get the New York Times Bestseller.

• 1:26:05Speaker 04

  That's how you get it, that's how you get it, people have, they have to know that people want it, that people wanna read it, and people are willing to put that money down right now, then see you on the book tour and say, will you sign it? Absolutely, I will.

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  Are you excited to do the book tour?

• 1:26:21Speaker 04

  Oh my god, just to be out there with people, people who have read it, people who will come up to you and tell you something about what you said and how it made a difference for them, yeah, that's everything, that is everything.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  I wanna show you this video of me.

• 1:26:37Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 1:26:39Speaker 01

  You, I'm, I don't know what you're gonna think about what you're about to see.

• 1:26:43Speaker 04

  Tournament champs.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no way. No, no, no, no way, I'm living without you.

• 1:26:54Speaker 04

  Okay, good note.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  I'm not living without you.

• 1:26:57Speaker 04

  When was this?

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  I was eighteen.

• 1:26:59Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  And you, and you, you're gonna love me, oh.

• 1:27:10Speaker 04

  One more.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  I know. Down the mountains, yeah, screaming shout.

• 1:27:19Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  Say what you want, I'm not gonna.

• 1:27:22Speaker 04

  Turn it off!

• 1:27:24Speaker 01

  Down the mountains, push, break, and kill.

• 1:27:27Speaker 04

  Kill!

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna leave ya, there's no way.

• 1:27:31Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  I will.

• 1:27:34Speaker 04

  Love the vibrato! Hold it, hold it!

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  I am telling you, I'm not going.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:27:57Speaker 04

  That was good, though.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:27:59Speaker 04

  I love the effort.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  I hit a few notes here and there.

• 1:28:02Speaker 04

  Yes, here and there.

• 1:28:05Speaker 01

  And there.

• 1:28:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's alright, though, it's the effort.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  Okay, and, one of the, my favorite parts of the show, that I'm so excited to do with you.

• 1:28:14Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  Um, they write in and they tell us what's wrong, and we give them advice, and I genuinely think there is probably no better person in this world than you to give them advice.

• 1:28:22Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  I am always the wing woman, and no one ever returns the favor, it was so fun for a while, because everyone was gassing me up as the best wing woman ever, and I'm pretty good at it, I guess, the thing is, nobody assumes I need any winging, but I really kinda do, I can make my friends look good all day, but when it comes to myself, I'm hopeless.

• 1:28:44Speaker 04

  First of all, you, whoever you are, are not hopeless, second of all, you train people how to treat you, if this is the behavior that they are showing you, it is because you let that behavior be okay, so right now, as you're aware of what's going on, it's up to you to change it, and if you need some care, you better let your friends know, I need you to be as good to me as I have been to you, because I need it right now.

• 1:29:24Speaker 01

  And then what happens, let's just play worst case scenario.

• 1:29:27Speaker 04

  Worst case?

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  If those friends then don't show up after you've said that to them.

• 1:29:32Speaker 04

  Then guess what you've just found out, they were never your friends to begin with.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Mic drop.

• 1:29:40Speaker 04

  Mic drop. But it's too expensive.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  I have been having such bad health anxiety recently. And all of the information that is available online is not helping. I'm freaking out constantly that I'm getting cancer or some other horrible thing. I'm sure you relate to this, so what do you do to quiet that noise?

• 1:29:59Speaker 04

  First of all, you have the power to quiet that noise when you stop going to the internet for information. So much of the information you're getting on the internet is not good information. If you have health insurance, get in a relationship with a good doctor. If you don't have health insurance, find the right clinic next to you. Get into a relationship with a doctor or a caregiver. Go to the professionals armed with a little bit of knowledge that you probably have, but stop worrying unnecessarily until you go get the proper information.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  Right, it's almost like some people use the internet as a way to avoid the doctor.

• 1:30:45Speaker 04

  Don't avoid the doctor.

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:47Speaker 04

  Like, don't avoid the dentist either.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  I know, I haven't gotten a cleaning in a minute.

• 1:30:51Speaker 04

  Oh my god, do you have health insurance?

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:30:54Speaker 04

  Then you need to use it. They'll pay for a cleaning.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:30:57Speaker 04

  Yes. Then get an electric toothbrush. Electric toothbrushes are the best.

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  That I have, that I have.

• 1:31:03Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  It makes brushing my teeth fun.

• 1:31:05Speaker 04

  Yes, it does. Mine smiles at me.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  Do you remember the electric toothbrushes that would sing to you?

• 1:31:11Speaker 04

  Oh, yes, and when the song was over, then you knew you had done a good job.

• 1:31:15Speaker 01

  They need to bring those back.

• 1:31:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, they do.

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  What was it, Tooth Tunes? Tooth Tunes?

• 1:31:19Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Nolan, I'm surprised you know what Tooth Tunes is.

• 1:31:25Speaker 01

  This guy I like invited me to a bar with him. And later that night, when he walked me to my car, he told me he didn't want to, but it was the right thing to do. Oh my god. Then, he told me that there was a girl in the bar he was gonna go back and talk to since he hasn't been laid in a while. Why does this always happen to me? I have no radar for red flags until it's too late. Help.

• 1:31:47Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh, of course you have radar. You have it. It's inside of you. I don't care if you got to click your heels three times like Dorothy. It is already inside of you. You just need to listen to it. And no matter what, people always show you who they are. They cannot help it. They will always show you exactly who they are. You just have to take off your rose-colored glasses or your blinders and see them. Really look at them. And that was just a piece of ish man you gave your time to. Oh my god.

• 1:32:31Speaker 04

  And to actually say those things to you? Oh my god, you should have kicked him in his nuts and said, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I misplaced my foot." I'm, uh, listen. Don't listen to me.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  No, I think everyone should listen to you.

• 1:32:47Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  This guy I was seeing took me out on a date where eventually he ended the night bringing me to an engagement ring shop. He wanted to get my finger measurements, et cetera. This was like our seventh or eighth date, which is just psycho. The shitty part is, a week or so after that, he ghosted me. And that makes sense to me, because if someone's gonna love-bomb you, then they'll also ghost you.

• 1:33:11Speaker 04

  And there you have it. Girl, when he showed you, took you to that engagement window, you should have run. Especially since it sounds like you really weren't that in to him. It's like, pay attention. You make the first move. Stop waiting for people to move on you. I mean, open your eyes. Pay attention. You're not hungry for just anybody. You gotta be open to that special somebody.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  I think it's just so hard, at least with me, when I romantically, like, try to go on romantic endeavors, I feel like time is like slipping away at all the time. So I feel like every guy, especially being gay, I'll like talk to, I feel like there's less fish in the sea for me. And so I put so much emphasis on one person.

• 1:34:07Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:34:09Speaker 04

  Believe it or not, it's the same for just about everybody. The only people that it might be different for are men in general.

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:19Speaker 04

  Usually, men love them some them. Oh, they just think they are wonderful. And men have this thing of, "They're not worried about you." I'm a man. Men like themselves. Gay men, straight men, black men, white men, Asian men. Men like themselves. Okay, so this one time, see, he's laughing because he knows it's true. He knows it's true. And men don't care what they look like. They love themselves. A man could have a belly out to here.

• 1:35:02Speaker 04

  He's gonna pat that belly, because it's his belly. I'm telling you. That man could be going bald. He's gonna rub that hair back and appreciate the hair he has. Because men are like that. So when you start saying, "Oh, it's happening to me because I'm gay." Honey, you're a man. What the world? What do they say? It's a man's world. Men are like, "A woman should be in the kitchen to teach me how to cook, because I'm gonna be the chef." Men are like, "A woman should be in the house."

• 1:35:45Speaker 04

  Yeah? To teach me how to run the house, because I'm gonna renovate all the houses. They're a renovator. Men will take, men are like, "Yeah. Teach me your ways, beauty queen, because I'm gonna beat your face." Beating your face means do your makeup?

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:36:05Speaker 04

  Baby, all you got to do is man up in your way, whether it's a sweet way to man up, or it's a cojones man to man up. Pick your way to man up and walk out there like you the best thing since sliced bread. You're a man. Men love themselves. I wake up every morning, I look in the mirror and I say, "That's right, girl. You got this. Look at you. Look at you." That's it, let's go.

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  You do that every morning?

• 1:36:41Speaker 04

  Hell, yeah. I look in the mirror and love what I see. Yes, I do.

• 1:36:45Speaker 01

  Has it always been that way, or did you have to learn how to do that?

• 1:36:48Speaker 04

  No, no, no. I had to learn that. You know, when people start telling you, "You ugly," you start to believe them until you realize that's a lie.

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:57Speaker 04

  You have to get rid of some of the lies that you've been told. I realize that in life. A lot of people carry these lies. They're not the truth. If I was pissed off about anything right now, it'd be the fact that people just are believing so many lies and carrying the lies with them. They can't tell the lies from the truth. People have become so gullible. I'm like, "Oh my god." Okay, so maybe I thought those AI babies were really babies, but, okay, that's me. Doesn't have to be you.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:37:30Speaker 04

  Don't get me started.

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  If there's one thing in this world that I would love to do is, it would be to get you started.

• 1:37:40Speaker 04

  I mean...

• 1:37:42Speaker 01

  And that was it for the Tell Me What's Wrong.

• 1:37:43Speaker 04

  Ah, well, because, guess what? We have the possibility to make so many things right. Especially right now, in this climate that we are in right now. Now is the time to get some things right. They should never be this bad again.

• 1:37:59Speaker 01

  Ever again.

• 1:38:00Speaker 04

  We have, we have rounded up too many people in the past 300 years. We've got to stop this whole idea of round them up and get rid of them. Let's, let's figure out something much, much better to do with us as human beings. Maybe we can figure out how to treat people better. We have so much to give the world, you know, right here in America. Oh my god, we lead the way in so many things. Let's lead it in a way that when they look at us, they don't laugh at us. We shouldn't be the laughing stock anymore. We've, and we're the ones that have the power to change that. We can do better.

• 1:38:43Speaker 01

  We can do better.

• 1:38:44Speaker 04

  And we must do better.

• 1:38:46Speaker 01

  And we will.

• 1:38:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:38:48Speaker 01

  I think especially with more people like you in the world.

• 1:38:50Speaker 04

  Ah, thank you.

• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:38:52Speaker 04

  Thank you, I love living, and I love being alive. And I have two children that make me proud.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  Well, before you leave.

• 1:38:59Speaker 04

  Yes, before I leave. You didn't even offer me any water, and you got that... Got good water sitting beside you, where was it? I'm gonna take it with me.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  I would like to know, what is your favorite song of all time? What is your favorite movie of all time?

• 1:39:19Speaker 04

  My favorite movie of all time, when I was very little, you know, there, there were some movies that only came on like once a year. You couldn't just watch whatever you wanted, you had to wait. You had to wait for like The Wizard of Oz, you had to wait. And for me, it was a movie called Black Orpheus. And I was young, and the screen filled with all of these beautiful black people singing and dancing. They were in Brazil, and they were speaking Portuguese, and the subtitles ran underneath it. They were beautiful. And I remember thinking, "Oh my god, I just love it." They, ah, the love they shared with each other. And that was it, Black Orpheus.

• 1:40:04Speaker 04

  When I came to California, I was walking through Westwood, and there was a huge poster of the film, Black Orpheus. And I said, "I wanna buy it." It was too expensive at the time for me, but I got a job or some, something, and I went back a few months and I bought it. And it hang, it hangs in my home now.

• 1:40:24Speaker 01

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 1:40:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know it's corny, but I love that song. Dionne Warwick sang, and the lyrics were very simple. She says, "What the world needs now is love."

• 1:40:41Speaker 04

  It's the only thing that there's just too little of. What the world needs now is love, sweet love. No, not just for some, but for ev- ev- everyone. I love that.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Well, Cheryl Lee Ralph, it has been such an honor to sit here and talk to you.

• 1:41:22Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:41:23Speaker 01

  And I hope I will see you at Miss Lauryn Hill Show at the ball.

• 1:41:27Speaker 04

  Oh, baby, November 8th.

• 1:41:31Speaker 04

  Bye, pussies.