Pod Insights The Rewatchables ‘The Good Son’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey About this episode From Hell Month rolls on with a visit to Rock Harbor, Maine, where little Henry is up to no good! The guys revisit the 1993 psychological thriller ‘The Good Son,’ starring Macaulay Culkin and Elijah Wood.
Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Matt Pevic
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Transcript 23,974 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:06 Bill Simmons? The Rewatchables is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find The Big Picture with Sean Finacy.
1:11 Sean Fennessey? That's right.
1:11 Bill Simmons? Newsletter writer.
1:12 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, yeah.
1:13 Bill Simmons? How's that going? Projections.
1:15 Sean Fennessey? Good. You know, we're in like week seven and I'm like, all right, so you just every week we do this, cranking out 2,000 words. You know, you did it for, what, 20 years? It's work.
1:25 Bill Simmons? Getting to the habit.
1:26 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:26 Bill Simmons? Just gotta keep those fingers moving.
1:28 Sean Fennessey? Just keep moving, yeah. When are you gonna start moving?
1:30 Chris Ryan? All I do is pod. I don't write anymore. You know, I'm following in his footsteps. My fingers are broken.
1:35 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
1:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah, the difference is you'll go on all the pods.
1:39 Chris Ryan? That's right. They use me up.
1:40 Bill Simmons? You're like Dominic Dunn in the 90s, taking dinner invites during the OJ trial.
1:49 Bill Simmons? What time? Table for 10?
1:51 Sean Fennessey? Did you do, was it Ben Shapiro this week? Or you won? You did, okay.
1:57 Bill Simmons? We are still in From Hell Month. Sean, you haven't officially been on From Hell Month.
2:00 Sean Fennessey? No, happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
2:02 Chris Ryan? This is a nice follow-up for 2001, I think.
2:05 Bill Simmons? The Good Sun is next.
2:08 Bill Simmons? It's the Rewatchables presented by FanDuel Predicts. You can predict the summer soccer showcase with FanDuel Predicts. From the opening game to the final whistle, stay locked in. Sign up now for your $25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts. Go to fanduel.com/predicts to sign up. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets, LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus restrictions apply. See terms at fanduel.com/predicts/bonus-offer-terms.
2:54 Bill Simmons? Guys, Kids from Hell, a staple of the From Hell genre. I'm gonna give you my top three ever and then we could decide who's in the fourth spot on
3:03 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
3:03 Bill Simmons? Kids from Hell, Mount Rushmore.
3:05 Sean Fennessey? I made a top 10 list, just so you know.
3:06 Bill Simmons? I have, oh, you did?
3:07 Sean Fennessey? I did.
3:08 Bill Simmons? Did you really?
3:08 Sean Fennessey? I did. Yeah, well, why don't you do yours and I'll give you, I'll give you mine.
3:11 Bill Simmons? Well, the OGs, Damian Omen. It's all for you, Damian!
3:17 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
3:18 Bill Simmons? Michael Myers.
3:19 Sean Fennessey? Uh huh.
3:20 Chris Ryan? Kid?
3:21 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, that's funny. I didn't, I didn't list him.
3:23 Chris Ryan? Sure, sure, sure.
3:24 Bill Simmons? What?
3:25 Chris Ryan? No, this is why you're you, is because you see the whole, the whole landscape.
3:28 Sean Fennessey? You're right, you're right.
3:30 Bill Simmons? I watched him for 15 years, not staring at the wall, staring through the wall.
3:36 Chris Ryan? I would argue in his childhood, Michael was relatively dormant though, right? Like he had the one bad night.
3:41 Bill Simmons? He killed his sister!
3:41 Chris Ryan? He had one bad night.
3:42 Sean Fennessey? He was a tough night.
3:43 Bill Simmons? He had one bad night. Stabbing! So I have him and I have King Joffrey as my third one.
3:48 Chris Ryan? Oh, great call.
3:49 Sean Fennessey? I didn't, yeah.
3:50 Bill Simmons? Joffrey, like underrated fucking maniac.
3:53 Sean Fennessey? Kind of, yeah. McCauley in this movie is kind of the blueprint for Joffrey.
3:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah, yeah.
3:56 Sean Fennessey? Where you're just like, it's just pure malevolence all the way down. So I did a slightly different version of it. I did, there's something wrong with the kid movies, which is not quite the same as just evil kid.
4:08 Bill Simmons? But it's, it's in the, they're related.
4:10 Sean Fennessey? It's in the zone.
4:11 Bill Simmons? What else do you have?
4:11 Sean Fennessey? Number 10, there's two Village of the Damned movies. 60 and then Carpenter remade it in 95. Number nine, recent movie Late Night with the Devil.
4:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
4:19 Sean Fennessey? Where a young girl gets possessed on live television.
4:21 Bill Simmons? So you count possessions for?
4:23 Sean Fennessey? I am counting possessions.
4:25 Bill Simmons? Okay. Cause Exorcist is a tough one.
4:27 Sean Fennessey? Well, we'll get there. Uh, number eight is Brightburn, a movie I know you like.
4:30 Bill Simmons? Really like Bright Burn.
4:31 Sean Fennessey? What if Superman was evil, basically? Uh, The Good Son is number seven. Number six is The Bad Seed, huge inspiration for The Good Son. I have The Omen at five. I have, we need to talk about Kevin at four.
4:42 Chris Ryan? Kevin over Damian.
4:44 Sean Fennessey? Kevin over Damian.
4:44 Chris Ryan? Wow.
4:45 Sean Fennessey? Number three, Orphan, which is an absolute banger. Number two, The Shining, because Danny, at first, we're like, is Danny gonna be the problem here? Now, there is kind of something wrong with Danny.
4:57 Chris Ryan? I don't think I ever really thought that, but yeah, I'm gonna, I like what you're talking about.
5:01 Sean Fennessey? And then number one, of course, is Reagan in The Exorcist.
5:06 Bill Simmons? I had her as well. Um, two you left out, Children of the Corn, Isaac.
5:11 Sean Fennessey? Yep.
5:11 Chris Ryan? He wants you too, Malachi. Can we do that, please, one day? Can we do Children of the Corn?
5:15 Sean Fennessey? Have you rewatched it, though?
5:17 Bill Simmons? It's really bad.
5:17 Sean Fennessey? It's not that good.
5:18 Chris Ryan? But I want, I just want to talk.
5:19 Bill Simmons? Even Tubi's like, ah, we're not sure. It has a couple of good scenes, but it's pretty rough. And then the other one I had, which I actually watched in preparation for this podcast, a movie that I somehow missed. That was 92, the year I graduated college. No recollection of this coming out. I don't think it was really released in the theaters that much and then became a cult classic after. It's called Mikey.
5:41 Sean Fennessey? I've never seen this. I was reading about it.
5:43 Bill Simmons? Brian Bonsall, who was the little kid that got added at the end of Family Ties, when they made the classic 80's sitcom mistake of, we need to mix things up on the show. Oh, the parents are pregnant again. Mikey's insane. It's on Amazon. Um, thoroughly enjoyed it. Josie Bissett from Melrose Place and the white guy from Miami Vice, John Deal. One of the backup cops.
6:08 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
6:08 Bill Simmons? They're both in it. But Mikey, he's like literally a serial killer.
6:12 Sean Fennessey? So.
6:12 Bill Simmons? As like a nine-year-old.
6:13 Sean Fennessey? I read that this was one of three movies that were all banned around the same time, including The Good Son in England. Because there was some copycat stuff going on.
6:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and they were worried about that with this, with The Good Son here, too, where they were just like, if people see Colkin breaking bad, this is gonna be terrible.
6:28 Bill Simmons? I gotta say, Mikey is a nice little appetizer for The Good Son. It's like the more ridiculous, Tubi crazy version of it. What are your evil kid takes?
6:36 Chris Ryan? I mean, I think Kevin is actually pretty high up there for me.
6:39 Sean Fennessey? It's a very disturbing movie.
6:40 Chris Ryan? That's like a really disturbing one. That's like almost more realistic. You know, I mean.
6:45 Bill Simmons? That's like a you need a shower after that movie.
6:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
6:49 Bill Simmons? Also, the the kid who played Kevin.
6:52 Sean Fennessey? Ezra Miller.
6:52 Bill Simmons? Turned out to be fucking cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
6:55 Chris Ryan? You could throw, just from recently, like you could, you could make an argument about the young version of the Zendaya character from the drama.
7:03 Sean Fennessey? That's funny.
7:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's a great one.
7:05 Chris Ryan? And you could make the argument that Alana Heim's character is even worse.
7:08 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, we don't see her childhood. Oh, yeah, well, we hear about her childhood.
7:11 Chris Ryan? But she sounds almost more sociopathic about it in some ways.
7:14 Bill Simmons? So you're counting orphan?
7:16 Sean Fennessey? Well.
7:17 Bill Simmons? It does turn out it's a 35 year old Romanian.
7:19 Sean Fennessey? Spoilers for 2009's Orphan.
7:22 Bill Simmons? Come on, 17 years old.
7:23 Sean Fennessey? That's one of the great twists, though, in recent movie history. I, the reveal at the end, I was just like, absolut fucking looney.
7:29 Bill Simmons? It's a massive, massive hit with the Simmons family. As you know, the Simmons family watches all of these, and The Good Son is the perfect family movie, because it's, it's pushing it, but not really. It's scary, but not totally. It's creepy, but it has an okay ending.
7:44 Chris Ryan? It's like 9% better than a TV movie of the week, and it's, it's that 9% where it flies, you know?
7:51 Bill Simmons? So what, so what do you want from medieval kid movies, CR? Do you like the satanic possession angle, or do you like?
7:58 Chris Ryan? No, I like it to be in the parents' hands of like, what are we gonna do about this? Because obviously, like, the instinct, and this is, this movie dramatizes it really well, is the instinct is like, I would give up my life for my kid, and the only thing that matters is my kid. There's nothing that my kid could do that wouldn't make me love it. And this movie asks you, but what if, what if that wasn't the case? Or what if you were pushed to such a far extreme that you had to make a choice?
8:21 Bill Simmons? How old's your daughter now?
8:22 Sean Fennessey? She'll be five in July.
8:24 Chris Ryan? This is a fun conversation.
8:25 Bill Simmons? No, it's not going where you think you're going. So you're gonna be around a lot of kids and a lot of parents from this point on. There's gonna be the one kid where you're like, hey.
8:35 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
8:35 Chris Ryan? Let's, and if his name is Damian or Kevin, you're already gonna be prejudiced against him.
8:39 Bill Simmons? There will be, there will be the jokes.
8:41 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
8:41 Bill Simmons? Believe me, I made them.
8:43 Sean Fennessey? I was.
8:43 Bill Simmons? Back in the day.
8:44 Sean Fennessey? I was at a birthday party with Alice in, in January and there was a bounce house at the birthday party. I'll just say that there was one kid who was pushing the limits of sadism in the bounce house, I'll say, delighting in punishing other children.
8:59 Bill Simmons? Keep an eye on that kid from that moment on.
9:01 Chris Ryan? Is that kid's name Payman?
9:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
9:04 Chris Ryan? Payman, another bad kid.
9:05 Sean Fennessey? Pazuzu Johnson, yeah.
9:06 Bill Simmons? Payman's a good one.
9:07 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
9:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Payman's definitely in there. Um, yeah, cause it, well, there's two different versions for the parent, right? One is it's your kid and you're constantly trying to convince yourself that the kid's fine, which is what's so great about that Kevin movie, movie that I would not buy on 4K Blu-ray, cause I don't ever wanna see it again.
9:24 Sean Fennessey? I definitely own it.
9:25 Bill Simmons? I wouldn't wanna be like, hey, what are we doing tonight?
9:28 Chris Ryan? We need to talk about Kevin again.
9:30 Bill Simmons? We gotta watch that Bo Naro scene. Um, so you have that, but then you have the other, the other version is the someone else has that kid. Do we want our kid to interact with that kid?
9:42 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, right.
9:42 Bill Simmons? Which is a whole other.
9:44 Sean Fennessey? And this movie kind of introduces that in its, in the plot structure where it's sort of like, what if a normal kid, or at least what we think is a normal kid, is introduced into a world where there's something wrong with the other kid. So like we have, it's not through the eyes of the parents, it's through the eyes of another child, which is an uncommon thing in these kinds of movies. Usually it's through the eyes of the parents. So I think that's part of what is effective about this movie.
10:05 Chris Ryan? Yeah, all the adults are pretty much viewed through the POV of the kids.
10:09 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
10:09 Chris Ryan? And that's like different than say, how we did with, he had the rocks of Cradle, where it kind of jumps around a lot. You, you, you're kind of given insight into like what's going on here or there before the characters know it. This is all like, I was, I have a lot of like picking nits about Uncle Wallace, you know, and, and some stuff like that. But like, all we see of him is what the Mark and Henry characters were really what the Mark character sees.
10:35 Bill Simmons? Evil Henry.
10:37 Bill Simmons? Played by Macaulay Culkin.
10:38 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
10:39 Bill Simmons? In a phenomenal performance. Um, the manipulative stuff is great. Everything, all the shit he's doing, he's, he's like, hey, mom, Mark wants to, Mark wants to stay in Richard's room. He's like, no, I don't.
10:54 Bill Simmons? He's just constantly like pushing buttons and figuring out where the limits are. Um, and just trying to quietly torture people, but then he's also a fucking maniac.
11:03 Chris Ryan? He's the Tiger Woods of gaslighting. Like, it would have been an incredible run for him. It ended really soon, you know, ended early.
11:10 Sean Fennessey? Yes. You want to make some sort of comments like in the NBA.
11:14 Chris Ryan? But what would have been his, his 99 US Open, you know, like what, what could he have done at college? Or in the professional works?
11:22 Bill Simmons? I had that written down, how I wish he hadn't died and I wanted more stuff with him for the sequels. Like, he's running a gambling ring in the seventh grade and just where else it could have gone.
11:32 Sean Fennessey? I just feel like that's small potatoes for him. I mean, he really, he, he was reaching for the stars right out of the chute. He was like, what I will do is I'll murder my brother. Like, he was, he's.
11:40 Chris Ryan? He was building weapons. I mean, it wasn't going to end well for, for Henry, no matter what, but yeah.
11:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he had a shed with Mr. Highway that he built, his fake, fake dummy that he could throw at a highway.
11:51 Sean Fennessey? This movie also really taps into something that I think all three of us have talked about a bunch over the years, which is when we were growing up, your parents were just like, all right, we'll see you in nine hours. And you're like, what did you do with all of this free time when no one was looking after you? Which is like, not the experience I'm having as a parent. I'm pretty aware of where my daughter is at all times.
12:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
12:08 Sean Fennessey? But when we were kids.
12:09 Chris Ryan? Sure.
12:10 Sean Fennessey? You could just build Mr. Highwayman in a shed.
12:12 Chris Ryan? This might have ended the latchkey parenting generation. Just be like, we need to make sure.
12:16 Bill Simmons? It's at the tail end.
12:17 Chris Ryan? We don't have a good son. Yeah.
12:18 Bill Simmons? This is right. The nineties were when this started to flip around and people started to become a little more sophisticated. But yeah, he has this shed where he is Mr. Highway. He has basically the.
12:29 Chris Ryan? He has the fucking no country.
12:30 Bill Simmons? Anton Chigurh air gun.
12:31 Chris Ryan? No country for old men gun. Yeah.
12:35 Bill Simmons? Called it. It's like, wanna see the stuff at my shed? He has a treehouse that it's like 50 50 you're gonna fall to your death as you're climbing.
12:41 Sean Fennessey? A death trap.
12:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
12:42 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
12:42 Bill Simmons? He's like, no, no, go this way, the scary way.
12:44 Chris Ryan? They are given free, free rein to go play on cliff sides in the winter in New England where like they could just get blown off.
12:51 Sean Fennessey? And highway overpasses, they're just like hanging out around the highway and on train tracks. Like the, the number of places where they go and just like hang out, every single space where they go is dangerous.
13:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's almost like the only thing they're missing is like the subway with the third rail where you'd get electrocuted.
13:06 Sean Fennessey? Right. It's kind of like a Final Destination movie.
13:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
13:09 Sean Fennessey? You know, where they keep putting them, they keep putting the characters in scenarios where like something terrible is about to happen here.
13:13 Bill Simmons? Did you know anything about this movie before you watched it?
13:16 Speaker 04 Zero.
13:16 Bill Simmons? You, you figured it.
13:17 Speaker 04 I assumed Culkin was the, was the good son going into it. Liz and I were like, it has to be Culkin's the good kid, right? They would never, he's a star coming off Home Alone. There's no way he's gonna be bad. But it was way bad. And I, even the way Elijah Wood has a look to him that I thought could be portrayed as sinister. So I was surprised they went the other way, but they were both perfect for it.
13:34 Chris Ryan? He does a good job freaking out.
13:35 Bill Simmons? This movie.
13:38 Sean Fennessey? Ridiculous movie.
13:42 Bill Simmons? It had, uh, oh, I had one more thing about the From Hell All Stars who were constructed in the perfect family. Sleeping with the Enemy guy is the dad.
13:52 Chris Ryan? Patrick Bergen, yeah.
13:54 Sean Fennessey? He's, he's been mentioned on every From Hell month.
13:58 Sean Fennessey? Same director, by the way. Joseph Rubin, who also directed Sleeping with the Enemy.
14:01 Bill Simmons? We're gonna talk about him. I think the mom can't be a From Hell. I think you need one person in the From Hell movie who's not from hell. The mom who's constantly overlooking the signs that something bad's happening.
14:11 Sean Fennessey? Oh, yeah, okay.
14:12 Bill Simmons? That's like a Julia Roberts type of actress, whatever. Macaulay Culkin and Alicia Silverstone is the two kids.
14:20 Sean Fennessey? Sure.
14:20 Bill Simmons? I think she's the older sister. DeMornay is the nanny.
14:23 Sean Fennessey? Of course.
14:24 Bill Simmons? Glenn Close is the mistress. And then I think Kathy Bates, Vince Vaughn and Sam Jackson all live next door.
14:30 Sean Fennessey? Who are, who's that?
14:31 Bill Simmons? With Tim Robbins and whoever his wife was in Arlington Road. They're across the street.
14:38 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
14:38 Bill Simmons? Just do some FBI terrorist stuff.
14:40 Sean Fennessey? This is like your all-star team up of all the From Hell baddies.
14:44 Bill Simmons? They're all there, but they're.
14:45 Chris Ryan? Is Arlington Road in From Hell Month?
14:47 Bill Simmons? No, but I do like that movie. It is a good one.
14:53 Sean Fennessey? Nothing better than when you guys look at each other, talking about a semi-obscure movie that nobody cares about and decide you're gonna devote a lot of time to it on this show.
14:59 Bill Simmons? That movie has Jeff Bridges, Tim Robbins, and.
15:02 Chris Ryan? Is Madeline Stowe in that? Who's the wife?
15:04 Bill Simmons? There's a really good actress in it, too.
15:07 Sean Fennessey? I don't, it's been a long time. Is it Mark Pellington, the director?
15:10 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
15:11 Sean Fennessey? Director of the Jeremy video?
15:12 Chris Ryan? Yes.
15:12 Bill Simmons? It's a good movie. It's got a nice twist. Zoe and I watched it over Christmas break and she loved it. But she seems to like all of these movies.
15:19 Sean Fennessey? Road from Hell, Arlington.
15:21 Chris Ryan? Well, Road from Hell would also be like U-turn.
15:24 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, or The Hitcher.
15:24 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
15:25 Sean Fennessey? Or Duel. Truck from Hell?
15:27 Bill Simmons? Truck from Hell. Um, this movie also had one of the great random endings of all time.
15:32 Chris Ryan? Random?
15:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah, where it's like, this is whatever. It's a stupid From Hell movie. But the choice of the mom holding the two kids over the cliff.
15:41 Sean Fennessey? It's incredible.
15:42 Bill Simmons? I think I got 20 years of column jokes out of this about who do you choose? Jalen or Jason?
15:49 Bill Simmons? Holding them over the cliff? Jalen's going, Dad, give me your other hand.
15:53 Sean Fennessey? Where are you at on that right now?
15:54 Bill Simmons? I dropped Jalen.
15:55 Chris Ryan? You did?
15:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
15:56 Sean Fennessey? After the Twitch stream? Do you, yeah, just on this day?
16:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
16:01 Sean Fennessey? Will Jalen be on the Celtics the start of next season?
16:04 Bill Simmons? So we're taping this on June 4th.
16:06 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
16:06 Chris Ryan? You think he gets traded or in the draft?
16:08 Bill Simmons? I would say 70, 30 not on the Celtics.
16:10 Sean Fennessey? Wow. Okay.
16:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah. By the time people listen to this, maybe he won't be on the Celtics, but.
16:15 Sean Fennessey? Sheesh.
16:15 Bill Simmons? But yeah, the good son analogy. I would, I would have it with you guys. I got.
16:20 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
16:20 Bill Simmons? C R and Sean.
16:21 Sean Fennessey? I think we all know I'm getting dropped. Everybody knows I'm getting dropped.
16:24 Bill Simmons? C R, C R's like, Bill!
16:25 Sean Fennessey? Lunching to a fiery death.
16:27 Bill Simmons? Bill, give me your other hand!
16:29 Chris Ryan? Let me fly, Bill.
16:31 Bill Simmons? What's crazy about this, though, is.
16:32 Sean Fennessey? Does that indicate, who did I drown then in that analogy if I'm the one that gets dropped?
16:37 Chris Ryan? Was Sean trying to throw a rock on you when you were thinking?
16:39 Bill Simmons? I pulled both of you up. I figured, I had some of the strength. I say both of you guys. They filmed this, though. It's no CGI, because we don't have CGI back then.
16:48 Sean Fennessey? No.
16:48 Bill Simmons? They have people on. You know, those things like
16:51 Sean Fennessey? Harnesses.
16:52 Bill Simmons? They're actually dangling. They're all at various points. They're all dangling from harnesses. And at some point, Colkin had to do like a 30 foot drop for the end that he, they rehearsed it for weeks. They rehearsed all of it. And it's why it looks so cool. Cause you're watching like, how are they doing this?
17:07 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. And he must've landed on one of those big parachute landing spots. When Wendy Cruze's character goes down, um, and it's clearly a stunt woman, but like, it does not look like she's harnessed anything.
17:16 Chris Ryan? No, she falls on like the outcropping of the, of the trees and rocks. That's so nuts.
17:22 Bill Simmons? In general, so Joseph Rubin, you mentioned director, but the way he shoots this, it's really good. I think it's like a really well done movie.
17:29 Sean Fennessey? I totally agree with you. Though like, I, my whole take on the movie is, is that it's ironically written by one of the great novelists of our lifetimes. And it's a very trashy and clearly like it was rewritten and kind of stripped down. And it's like, not a good script. But it is made with a level of Hollywood craft that is extremely high for such a junky piece of material.
17:50 Chris Ryan? That was, and McEwen, who's I think more or less disowned the movie or whatever, even though he got arbitration credit for it was like, the idea was to do something very low class in a high art way.
18:01 Sean Fennessey? Right.
18:01 Chris Ryan? You know, so it, it does make sense. The thing that they, this movie has is just the, the two kid performances are among the best you can really get from kids.
18:10 Bill Simmons? They're fantastic.
18:11 Sean Fennessey? And they're, they're now, I think widely acknowledged as like two of the great child stars in the history of movies.
18:16 Bill Simmons? Yeah. It's funny, this whole era and the movies were done. They're all like basically, it's like going to a diner and having like the best patty melt and the best fries and the best shake. That's what these movies are.
18:27 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
18:27 Bill Simmons? They're all really well done with good actors. Like we did Single Way Female and Jennifer Jason-Leigh's like great in that movie. You know, and it's also really well directed. Then we did, uh, Hand That Rocks The Cradle, just Curtis Hansen.
18:40 Sean Fennessey? Yep.
18:40 Bill Simmons? Couple of years before he does LA Confidential and DeMornay is incredible in that. And this movie like, this would just be like a fucking Lifetime movie 20 years later. But it's like a $20 million movie that had the hottest star under 21, probably the last 50 years.
18:55 Sean Fennessey? Yep.
18:56 Bill Simmons? And it's really good.
18:57 Chris Ryan? And he basically, I, I was trying to think of any comp, I was hoping you could help me of somebody who would have been like the America's sweetheart, big, huge movie star for his.
19:10 Chris Ryan? Rare as it is that it's a child like this to be like my for my next act, I'm going to be Hannibal Lecter in in a movie like even though I am currently still like I'm Kevin McCallister and everybody knows him.
19:23 Bill Simmons? It was honestly a great zag.
19:25 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I mean.
19:26 Bill Simmons? Cause it's like he you have a five year window when you're a kid star. It's not gonna last. It's just not. You're gonna grow up. You're gonna look awkward and people aren't gonna stay with you. And they I thought they did a good job of like reinventing him.
19:39 Sean Fennessey? Mm hmm. Well, it's it's such a complicated conversation because obviously his father was playing such a big role in kind of charting the path for his career. And this was really important to his dad to to mess with.
19:50 Chris Ryan? Well, he was treating Macaulay Culkin like he was.
19:53 Sean Fennessey? Like Brad Pitt.
19:54 Chris Ryan? Glenn Powell or Brad Pitt, where he's like, we gotta mix it up. We gotta show people that you can play dark. And I'm like, he's eight.
20:00 Sean Fennessey? Right.
20:00 Chris Ryan? What are you like, what are you doing?
20:02 Sean Fennessey? I mean, there are other a lot of other examples of like young child stars over the years, like Mickey Rooney was like this. Elizabeth Taylor was like this. Shirley Temple was like this. They got their starts really early on. And then when they started to get into their teens and their twenties, if they stuck around in Hollywood, that's when they would start darkening their persona and taking on more challenging stuff and sometimes playing the villains to kind of upset your expectations. But like you said, he's 10 years old, I think, when he makes this movie or 11 years old.
20:27 Bill Simmons? He breaks through an Uncle Buck and he steals every scene.
20:29 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
20:30 Bill Simmons? And then Home Alone is a phenomenon in 1990. It's one of the biggest movies of the 1990s, right? And then does the My Girl thing, which was a big deal. That he dies in My Girl.
20:43 Sean Fennessey? I loved My Girl.
20:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah. And then the dad who we're about to talk about, Kit Culkin. He they want to do Home Alone two and he's like, that's fine. But I want my son to be in The Good Son. And they're already like ahead of it. They have the director, they have the stars, they're already about to make it. And he basically gets them to stop production. Wait a year for him to finish Home Alone two. And it's probably the right move, even if he sounds like a psycho. But the next ones after this were getting even with dad with Ted Danson. But two people right after you would have wanted them, like three years after. And then Richie Rich. And then it was over. He stopped acting when he was 14.
21:18 Chris Ryan? The club movie come out? When does?
21:20 Sean Fennessey? Uh, Party Monsters like 10 years later.
21:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
21:22 Sean Fennessey? After those.
21:23 Bill Simmons? Stops at 14. Gets married at 18 to an actress. Ebert, who hated this movie about as passionately as anything we've covered in 440.
21:33 Sean Fennessey? A vicious review.
21:34 Bill Simmons? Just like could not have been more upset about how much he hated it. He wrote during this movie, what were Culkin's parents thinking? When they pushed him into a movie where he drowns his baby sister, tries to drown his little sister, wants to push his mother off the cliff. If this kid grows up into another one of those pathetic, screwed up former child stars, who are always spilling their guts on the talk shows, a lot of adults will share the blame. It's kind of half what happened. Although he seems like a very well adjusted older adult.
22:04 Sean Fennessey? But would that have happened to Macaulay Culkin even if he didn't make The Good Son? I mean, you could just, you could just say that being exposed to that level of fame and being involved in the projects that he was involved in before that. To me, the Ebert reading on this is really interesting because he always gets a little bit caught up in the morality. He had a hard time with slasher movies. He has a hard time with like juvenile comedy and he has a hard time with really mean spirited movies historically.
22:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
22:28 Sean Fennessey? And he comes down really hard on them. He almost always overlooks the craft. He thinks really about like the feeling, which I, I love about him. But he's like so hard on this movie because all he's thinking about is little kids who love Macaulay Culkin, watching Macaulay Culkin in the movie.
22:42 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I mean, I was too.
22:43 Sean Fennessey? Is that a way to look at the movie?
22:44 Chris Ryan? I don't think I was like as engaged.
22:46 Bill Simmons? I'm the opposite. I'm like, this movie is fucking awesome.
22:48 Chris Ryan? Well, I think it now, it's almost easier to look at as a museum piece than probably in the moment. In the moment, I'm sure it was just like, like the kid from Home Alone is like a multiple, multiple time murderer and psychopath.
22:58 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
22:59 Chris Ryan? But I think it adds like an interesting layer of like twisted psychology to the whole entire movie. If you think about the fact that Macaulay Culkin's father wanted him to play Henry.
23:13 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
23:13 Chris Ryan? Like that's fucked up.
23:15 Sean Fennessey? I agree.
23:15 Chris Ryan? But it does give the movie itself like a little bit of like, oh, like this is some seasoning. I didn't expect to have this off screen narrative into it.
23:24 Sean Fennessey? To Craig's point, but when he sat down to watch it, he never thought in a million years, Macaulay would be the villain.
23:27 Chris Ryan? Yes.
23:28 Bill Simmons? I remember seeing the trailer before a movie. With the trailer probably started running maybe three, four years because three, four months before, we didn't have the same kind of knowledge of what was coming back then as much. And the trailer was really good and it was like. Wait, is he, what's going on here?
23:46 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
23:46 Bill Simmons? And it was kinda shocking. The trailer's really good. Like, they did, he's got the flashlight, and it's clear that he's gonna be the creepy guy. So there was awareness that it was him.
23:55 Sean Fennessey? The, a movie now, though, I guess if it was like, if it was an Ari Aster movie, it would be, it would be as mean spirited. But for the most part, if this was a studio drama now, they would give you at least some indication of why Henry is the way that he is. They would psychologize him. They wouldn't just make a movie about a sociopathic eight-year-old. That, or there'd be a demonic possession or something. This movie is just, this kid is evil. That's it.
24:22 Bill Simmons? Is that better or worse, though?
24:24 Sean Fennessey? I don't think it's better. I don't think it would have been better. I think it's, I think it's more enjoyable that it's just like, this is evil incarnate.
24:29 Bill Simmons? I'm okay with not knowing why he is the way he is and just thinking that he's just a bad, terrible kid.
24:33 Chris Ryan? My favorite part of the research was apparently the novelization is just like, he's a sociopath. Nothing bad happened to him. Like, this is how, he came out like this, broken.
24:42 Bill Simmons? I mean, that was basically what the Kevin movie tried to do, too. Where Kevin was just like, I'm, there's just always been something a little off with this kid. Kit Culkin. You know who, uh, his sister was?
24:54 Chris Ryan? His sister, she's, she's, uh, the Icegate girl. She's the daughter.
24:57 Bill Simmons? Kit Culkin.
24:58 Sean Fennessey? His father.
24:59 Chris Ryan? Oh, Kit Culkin. Who's his sister?
25:02 Bill Simmons? Bonnie Bedelia.
25:03 Sean Fennessey? Oh, no kidding?
25:04 Chris Ryan? No.
25:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
25:05 Chris Ryan? Bonnie Bedelia's their aunt?
25:06 Bill Simmons? Bonnie Bedelia's, it was, it was Colin Culkin's aunt.
25:08 Sean Fennessey? Wow. Bonnie Bedelia in Presumed Innocent and, and Henry in this movie, and we'd be able to get along, I think.
25:14 Bill Simmons? He could have been in the house. New York Times wrote a big piece about Kit Culkin in 1993, The Dying Earth. Did you guys read this?
25:21 Chris Ryan? No.
25:22 Bill Simmons? Um, it's basically about Kit Culkin, why is this guy so powerful?
25:30 Bill Simmons? And it come, coming off Home Alone 2, which made 373 million dollars. Mr. Culkin was just rated the 48th most powerful person in Hollywood by Premier Magazine, ahead of Michael Douglas and Eddie Murphy.
25:45 Bill Simmons? Earlier this month, he signed an $8 million contract with MGM for getting him in with dad. And then it goes into all the stuff that when he decided, I want my son to be in The Good Son. And everyone in Hollywood is like, it doesn't work this way, man. You can't just bully people around. And he's like, yeah, it does. If my son's a big enough star, and guess what? He's one of the biggest stars in the world, then it's gonna work this way. And you're gonna give me this, and I'm gonna make this amount of money. And apparently it was just a nightmare. There was all these details about fights about everything, where the camera is set up for a shot, where his hair is done properly, scenes rewritten. You just, he was just running the show for two, three years.
26:26 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
26:27 Bill Simmons? And what happens? As soon as the star starts to fade, Hollywood's like, fuck this guy. And that was it. What's weird is that he's estranged from everybody now.
26:35 Chris Ryan? Yes.
26:35 Bill Simmons? I don't think Max talked to him in 20 years.
26:38 Sean Fennessey? His kids don't talk to him as far as I know.
26:39 Bill Simmons? He talked, he did an interview recently.
26:41 Chris Ryan? Did he?
26:41 Bill Simmons? He was on the Kate and Oliver Hudson Sibling Revelry Podcast.
26:45 Chris Ryan? No.
26:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't know. Do we need to add that to the ringer?
26:48 Sean Fennessey? Kate and Oliver Hudson have a podcast together?
26:50 Bill Simmons? Apparently.
26:50 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
26:50 Bill Simmons? He said, McCauley said, him and his seven living siblings and all of their kids are all estranged from Kit Kulk and intend to keep it that way.
27:00 Chris Ryan? Wow.
27:00 Sean Fennessey? I mean, wasn't there also a lot about the way that the money was managed and who got what? That was also, I feel like, a part of the controversy there. And so I think they all resent that in addition to the way that he acted.
27:09 Bill Simmons? Well, they had the Rooney Rule where you're protected somewhat, but I still feel like he could probably grab stuff under the table left and right.
27:15 Chris Ryan? The Rooney Rule, like the Mickey Rooney Rule?
27:16 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
27:17 Chris Ryan? Not like the Art Rooney.
27:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah, cuz I think he just got completely demolished by his parents, all the money he made. That's what's gonna happen to Ben Simmons.
27:26 Sean Fennessey? Hopefully you guys aren't estranged.
27:28 Bill Simmons? Uh huh.
27:28 Sean Fennessey? Hopefully you and Ben are not estranged at any point.
27:30 Bill Simmons? So far, we're doing great. Elijah Wood, who...
27:36 Bill Simmons? Really has a nice IMDb and has been in a lot of stuff.
27:39 Sean Fennessey? One of the great careers.
27:40 Chris Ryan? Yes.
27:41 Bill Simmons? The war, the ice storm, Deep Impact, The Faculty, a Bill Simmons favorite.
27:46 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
27:46 Bill Simmons? Three Lord of the Rings movies, Eternal Sunshine, beat out Jake Gyllenhaal for Lord of the Rings. Roger Ebert once called him the most talented actor in his age group in Hollywood history.
27:56 Chris Ryan? And it's just aged beautifully. Like it's really like every five, seven, eight years or whatever, when he's kind of like moved into a different period of his life, has been like in a movie that is like appropriate for that. Like it's, it's just been a real pleasure.
28:09 Bill Simmons? We talked about him in the Ice Storm podcast. Just a really good actor.
28:12 Sean Fennessey? Terrific in that movie too.
28:13 Bill Simmons? He's great in this movie.
28:14 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. He, he's kind of always great. It's weird because he, um, you know, he has, one year later, he's in North, which is like one of the legendary bombs in movie history.
28:23 Chris Ryan? Oh yeah, the Robert Ryan movie, right?
28:24 Sean Fennessey? And he just keeps on trucking, you know, like he's like in Ice Storm a couple of years later. He's in a movie, he's in the war the year after that. Like he, he, he didn't miss a beat. He didn't, it's interesting to kind of map him alongside Macaulay Culkin, who seemed like an absolute rocket ship. Like there was nothing that would ever take him down. And like you said, his career basically stops after Richie Rich and, and Elijah Wood is still going.
28:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah. He's just in Ready or Not 2.
28:48 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
28:49 Bill Simmons? My guess is Culkin's still probably banking stuff off the movies he made. I'm sure there's royalty stuff and other things.
28:55 Sean Fennessey? And he's slowly been coming back, right? He was in a Home Alone commercial.
28:58 Bill Simmons? I think he's a good interviewer. I was thinking he would actually be really good on that. He'd be a fun podcast to do.
29:03 Sean Fennessey? He's real, he's really insightful in the John Candy documentary, um, because he, he had formed that relationship with John Candy on Uncle Buck. And like, he explains how John Candy basically made him comfortable on camera. And it was cool to see him like reflective in that way. So we haven't, we hadn't seen him much, but now it feels like he's almost like ready to make another movie or something.
29:23 Bill Simmons? Also dated Mila Kunis for. Like four years.
29:27 Chris Ryan? And he's married to Brenda Song now, right?
29:29 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
29:30 Speaker 04 And she's kind of now, but she's in that Kate Edson show.
29:32 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
29:33 Speaker 04 Running point.
29:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah. And she's a ball knower. She knows a ton about the Rams.
29:36 Speaker 04 Huge Laker fan.
29:37 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
29:37 Bill Simmons? I think Culkin is incredibly likable now.
29:40 Speaker 04 Yeah.
29:40 Bill Simmons? Every time I've seen him, I'm always like, hey, man, that guy figured his shit out.
29:44 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
29:45 Sean Fennessey? It's always nice when that happens.
29:46 Chris Ryan? Drew Barrymore, same thing where you're just like, way to go.
29:48 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
29:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Definitely probably saw some dark moments over the years. I'm still rooting for him to do the Home Alone sequel where he's the dad. That's like the all time no brainer Netflix movie.
30:00 Sean Fennessey? I.
30:00 Bill Simmons? Just call it in, give him the 15 million.
30:02 Sean Fennessey? Feels like it will happen.
30:04 Bill Simmons? You wouldn't watch it? You watch Happy Gilmore 2.
30:06 Speaker 04 Against my will.
30:08 Bill Simmons? You watched it, though.
30:09 Speaker 04 Okay, is that the goal, I guess?
30:11 Bill Simmons? Home Alone.
30:11 Speaker 04 Time spent on platform.
30:12 Bill Simmons? Home Alone, new generation.
30:14 Chris Ryan? Why would Disney let Netflix have the Home Alone IP?
30:16 Bill Simmons? It's gonna, they're gonna share it.
30:18 Sean Fennessey? There's nothing I like more than teasing Craig about Happy Gilmore 2. No one was more angry about that than he was.
30:23 Chris Ryan? That's true.
30:23 Bill Simmons? Guess what? He watched the whole thing.
30:25 Sean Fennessey? That's right.
30:25 Bill Simmons? He consumed it.
30:26 Speaker 04 I love that.
30:27 Bill Simmons? You know what he was, Netflix? 95 minutes of content.
30:30 Chris Ryan? Your eyeballs to us, buddy.
30:32 Bill Simmons? Wendy Cruzen is the mom.
30:34 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
30:35 Bill Simmons? She's known from this, from three Santa Claus movies, all of which I've missed. I gotta say, I missed all the Santa Claus movies. Yeah.
30:41 Speaker 04 The Tim Allen Santa Claus?
30:43 Bill Simmons? Never saw him.
30:43 Speaker 04 Oh, my God. I love those movies.
30:45 Sean Fennessey? Huge hits, yeah.
30:46 Chris Ryan? Is she the mom in the Santa Claus or something?
30:47 Speaker 04 Yeah, she's, yeah, she's annoying.
30:49 Bill Simmons? She's in Air Force One and most importantly, in To Jillian on her 37th birthday.
30:54 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
30:55 Bill Simmons? One of the great bad movies of the 1990s.
30:57 Sean Fennessey? For years was married to one of my favorite actors, Michael Murphy.
31:00 Bill Simmons? Oh, that guy. Yeah.
31:01 Chris Ryan? How about that?
31:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah. We'll get into, there are other actresses that were for this part.
31:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
31:10 Bill Simmons? I think she's really good for her in this movie, but I also think this would have been a great part for an awesome actress.
31:16 Sean Fennessey? She plays.
31:17 Bill Simmons? If you just put Meryl Streep in this movie, it's like, wow.
31:20 Chris Ryan? The person who was originally cast in this role, you're like, this would have been awesome.
31:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah, yeah. There's a couple like from that age group where you're like, oh, that would have been.
31:27 Sean Fennessey? She's really rocking a period appropriate haircut.
31:29 Chris Ryan? Yes.
31:30 Sean Fennessey? That like hyper short cut where it was like a lot of women had that cut at that time, but now that's not something you ever see.
31:36 Bill Simmons? I dated a girl who had that haircut in college. It was like a three year run.
31:39 Chris Ryan? Mary Kay Place kind of thing?
31:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it was like a three year run for it and it just went away.
31:45 Bill Simmons? You want to talk about the writer?
31:46 Chris Ryan? Ian McEwan?
31:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
31:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I mean.
31:48 Bill Simmons? What's your relationship?
31:49 Chris Ryan? Love his novels, Atonement and Enduring Love and Amsterdam. This comes relatively early on in his novelist career. And he was obviously like brought out to come out to the coast. We'll get together, have a few laughs.
32:01 Sean Fennessey? It's right, it's like after Comfort of Strangers.
32:04 Chris Ryan? I think it's Child in Time, Comfort and Strangers era. And so they bring him out and they're like, what do you want to do? What are you?
32:09 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, yeah.
32:10 Chris Ryan? He banged this out. I think the bones of it are probably his, but like, I think a lot of the, um, I don't know, maybe the lack of like psychological and character depth is probably brought on.
32:23 Bill Simmons? Well, he despises the movie.
32:24 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
32:25 Bill Simmons? It's one of those where in the Wikipedia page for this movie, you wonder if he went in there and added a couple of things.
32:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I don't know if Ian McEwan is doing a lot of Wikipedia editing, but sure.
32:34 Bill Simmons? Or his assistant data or something. You read it and it's like very like.
32:37 Chris Ryan? He just.
32:38 Bill Simmons? Ian McEwan had this great idea and they fucked it up.
32:41 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
32:42 Bill Simmons? First sentences on end, but, um, I don't know what the high concept version of this movie is. And frankly, I'm not sure there should have been a high concept.
32:50 Chris Ryan? You know, his, there's a couple of his books that really explore the idea of a moment in your life that changes everything.
32:58 Sean Fennessey? Often in youth.
32:59 Chris Ryan? Yes.
32:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
33:01 Chris Ryan? And so I can see some faint outlines of McEwan in this of like this idea of like, in a time of one kid's trauma from losing his mother, he goes and spends a weird winter with family and meets this other kid who's like, seemingly possessed by the devil, but the mother is possessed by an angel. Like, I don't know. I mean, like, there's stuff in there, but that, I think they stripped that down and made it more about Mr. Highway.
33:27 Bill Simmons? So it's like the Charles Smith game for Sean.
33:30 Sean Fennessey? Hey, hey, we, look, when we're recording this, we don't know what's gonna happen.
33:33 Chris Ryan? We really don't.
33:34 Sean Fennessey? So like, let's just not even, can we just not even?
33:36 Bill Simmons? Saying that was a bad moment.
33:37 Sean Fennessey? It was a very bad moment. In fact, I spoke about it to my five year old last night.
33:41 Chris Ryan? Did you?
33:41 Sean Fennessey? I did, I did. We were talking about demons.
33:43 Chris Ryan? Was she receptive?
33:44 Sean Fennessey? I, she was kind of barely understanding what I was talking about, but I was trying to guide her through the experience of Nick's history.
33:49 Bill Simmons? Red Sox Yankees playoff game in 78. That was my version of a Ian McEwan novel.
33:57 Bill Simmons? Just the worst.
33:58 Sean Fennessey? I mean, I was about the age of the boys in this movie when that Charles Smith game happened.
34:02 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
34:03 Sean Fennessey? It set me down a dark path.
34:05 Bill Simmons? Joseph Rubin, Dreamscape, nineteen eighty-four, The Stepfather, nineteen eighty-seven, a good movie.
34:12 Sean Fennessey? Solid.
34:13 Bill Simmons? With our guy Terry O'Quinn from Lost.
34:15 Chris Ryan? That's right.
34:16 Bill Simmons? A bunch of things. True Believer.
34:19 Chris Ryan? I like True Believer.
34:20 Sean Fennessey? I've never seen it. Was that James Spader?
34:23 Bill Simmons? Sleeping with the Enemy, an immortal classic. The good son.
34:28 Bill Simmons? Money Train.
34:29 Chris Ryan? Money Train's not bad.
34:30 Sean Fennessey? Banger, yeah.
34:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
34:32 Bill Simmons? And then Return to Paradise, that's where the wheels start going off. But he had a nice little run there.
34:36 Sean Fennessey? I saw his first movie that he made a couple of weeks ago randomly, before you even asked me to do this, I just popped it in. It's called Joy Ride. The cast is Robert Carradine, Desi Arnaz Jr., and Melanie Griffith.
34:48 Bill Simmons? Wow, young Melanie Griffith.
34:50 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, about three kids who go up to Canada.
34:54 Chris Ryan? Oh, is it to escape the draft?
34:55 Sean Fennessey? That go on the run, yeah. It is a very strange but kind of entertaining movie. And it's like a real, like, kind of little grindhousey, little exploitation movie, but you can see even in that movie, the bones of like what he's interested in.
35:08 Bill Simmons? He's a From Hell all-star director. Really good at wide shots of awesome locations that seem seemingly peaceful and serene, but guess what? They're not.
35:17 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
35:17 Bill Simmons? His evil resides.
35:18 Chris Ryan? He and Hanson were the two masters of it, yeah.
35:22 Bill Simmons? I like him. I like his style. They made this movie in Maine, most of it, built all this. I think they, I don't know if they, I think they might have built the house.
35:34 Bill Simmons? And then filmed it a whole bunch of other places too, where the cliff scene was not in Maine. But the house was Manchester by the sea in Massachusetts.
35:44 Sean Fennessey? Okay, I was gonna talk about this.
35:45 Bill Simmons? Which you can drive up to right now. It's on Redfin. You can go find it. You can go look at it.
35:49 Sean Fennessey? So, I know you've been to Maine. You like to vacation in Maine.
35:52 Chris Ryan? I like, I love Maine.
35:54 Sean Fennessey? You're from New England.
35:55 Bill Simmons? I know. I never, never really crossed the line with Maine. My wife, my wife really loved it up there.
36:02 Chris Ryan? Didn't you guys go to Portland for some reason?
36:03 Bill Simmons? We did. We did Portland. We did Manchester a couple of times, but. The, uh, we just never, never really got over the hump.
36:11 Sean Fennessey? Well, I've been there a couple of times, um, and I really liked it. I only went in the summers. I've never been in a cold winter there, but, you know, it's such a beautiful part of the country, but it's also a very complicated part of the country. Um, and almost all the movies that are made there, and this is in part because of Stephen King, but not just Stephen King, are all really kind of sinister.
36:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah, there's something about that part of the, the coast.
36:37 Chris Ryan? It's unforgiving. It's unforgiving. It's kind of like the Oregon coast as well. It's like, you can't really swim here, you know?
36:44 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
36:44 Chris Ryan? It's like, you, it's beautiful, but you can't actually experience the beauty.
36:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah, sheer rock faces.
36:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah. There's like weird bugs that'll come out in like July, all of a sudden, like the worst crazy head mosquitoes come out for like three weeks.
36:57 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
36:58 Chris Ryan? Maine in the summer is like heaven on earth, but.
37:00 Bill Simmons? And then the one really, really nice part of Maine is Kennebuckport, which the bushes have kind of claimed.
37:05 Sean Fennessey? Right.
37:06 Bill Simmons? They have like that giant compound there.
37:07 Sean Fennessey? But you stay there when you go, right?
37:09 Chris Ryan? Uh, we go to Portland.
37:10 Sean Fennessey? No, but you stay at the bush compound?
37:12 Bill Simmons? I gotta say, I've known CR for 15 years. This is ironically the 15 year anniversary of this month.
37:17 Chris Ryan? Of our relationship?
37:18 Bill Simmons? Grantland and then Lunch in the Ringer.
37:20 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
37:21 Bill Simmons? Portland, Maine is the most CR place in America.
37:24 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
37:25 Bill Simmons? If he said tomorrow, I'm out, Phoebe and I are moving to Portland, Maine, I'd be like, I totally get it.
37:29 Chris Ryan? I would love to, if we could just knock out a few more rewatchables, I could summer in Maine. You know what I mean? Because if we got ahead of enough, I could, I could get a summer place.
37:37 Bill Simmons? Portland is like your place, man.
37:38 Sean Fennessey? What about Ben Shapiro? Like, you would just leave him high and dry like that? Would you log in on Zoom?
37:42 Chris Ryan? Me and Ben Shapiro breaking down backrooms. Has he weighed in on backrooms yet?
37:47 Sean Fennessey? I haven't seen, I haven't followed.
37:48 Chris Ryan? You know, he does like movie takes, right?
37:49 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, so I've seen, yeah. He had a lot of thoughts.
37:51 Chris Ryan? The thing about backrooms is.
37:54 Bill Simmons? If we brought him on the rewatchables, what would happen?
37:57 Sean Fennessey? I think he'd have a great time, you know?
37:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I think honestly, that would probably be a big goal for him, is to just come in and be like.
38:02 Bill Simmons? Shapiro?
38:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I bet.
38:03 Bill Simmons? The other BS?
38:09 Chris Ryan? Oh my god.
38:10 Sean Fennessey? Unfortunately, that would probably outperform the Spielberg.
38:17 Bill Simmons? This movie was eighty-six minutes long.
38:19 Sean Fennessey? It's so beautiful.
38:20 Chris Ryan? Hey, Ben Shapiro, have you ever had a criteria orgasm?
38:25 Bill Simmons? It's a better effect I have. Eighty-six minutes, twenty million dollar budget, made sixty-six million. And so it did make money. Roger Ebert, first time ever, I think, in four hundred and forty movies. A half star.
38:39 Chris Ryan? What?
38:40 Bill Simmons? I don't ever remember him going zero point five stars.
38:43 Chris Ryan? Did you happen to see the TV version of this?
38:45 Sean Fennessey? I sure did.
38:46 Chris Ryan? How was it?
38:47 Sean Fennessey? Um.
38:47 Chris Ryan? Gene liked it?
38:48 Sean Fennessey? They were both very angry.
38:50 Bill Simmons? Like, honestly, really, really pissed off.
38:52 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. And Gene, I think-
38:54 Bill Simmons? It's like Tipper Gore, late eighties level, just like infuriated by the concept of it.
38:58 Sean Fennessey? I agree. I think Ebert is like, his point of view is clouded by how upset the movie has made him. Siskel's point of view is really sharp, where he's like, here is what is, he basically does picking knits for two minutes and does say some things that make you think the movie is even worse than it actually is, where he's just like, let's think about the Mr. Highway situation. So those kids, when they drop the Mr. Highway, are in full view. Also, there's clearly a news report and a huge investigation into this, and then there's no follow-up in the story. What happened?
39:26 Chris Ryan? And it's also like, Mr. Highway, pretty distinctive way of doing that, like.
39:29 Bill Simmons? Right.
39:30 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, so it's like, the movie, because of the way that the script has clearly been torn apart, like, it doesn't really hold up to the level of, you know, investigation that we're gonna be doing here.
39:40 Chris Ryan? It's part of the fun.
39:41 Sean Fennessey? But it's, but that's part of what makes it fun, too.
39:43 Bill Simmons? God, I felt the complete opposite. When I saw it in the theater, I was like, this is great.
39:47 Chris Ryan? You were just like, Henry's throwing a perfect game. It's like watching Greg Maddux.
39:51 Bill Simmons? It was probably like a two-thirty start, ten minutes of previews, and I was out by four oh five. I was like, this is great.
39:58 Sean Fennessey? That is pleasant.
39:58 Bill Simmons? Let's do it this way all the time.
39:59 Chris Ryan? This movie could not have survived being fifteen minutes longer. Like, there's, there's literally no-
40:05 Bill Simmons? I have some ideas for later.
40:08 Sean Fennessey? But part of what is so good about it is, is it never blinks. It's just like, yeah, he's this evil.
40:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they don't, they don't ease into it. It's the moment he takes little Mark out for, for a timeout in the town. Here's what Ebert wrote. Who in the world would want to see this movie?
40:27 Bill Simmons? Watching The Good Son, I asked myself that question, hoping that perhaps the next scene would contain the answer, although it never did. The movie is a creepy, unpleasant experience. Made all the worse because it stars children too young to understand the horrible things we see them doing. This is a very evil little boy. The movie could have been called Henry Portrait of a Future Serial Killer. By the way,
40:49 Sean Fennessey? Banger.
40:50 Bill Simmons? By the way, I would have signed up for that right now.
40:52 Sean Fennessey? That's just a great Eber line.
40:54 Chris Ryan? Somebody should actually just make Henry the Portrait of a Future Serial Killer.
40:58 Bill Simmons? Have you seen that movie?
41:01 Chris Ryan? Probably not a rewatch.
41:01 Bill Simmons? I've told that story. I saw that one in the BU Theater for Assault the Game. It was me and seven other guys by themselves. Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer.
41:11 Sean Fennessey? Six of them went on to be serial killers and then there's you.
41:13 Bill Simmons? All of us sizing each other up halfway through the movie like, ah, keep an eye on that guy over there. Why does he have that big jacket on inside?
41:20 Sean Fennessey? Combat zone in the department.
41:23 Sean Fennessey? Waving tildos at each other.
41:27 Bill Simmons? We're gonna take a break and come back and do most rewatchable scene. This episode is brought to by Ethos. As a parent, life insurance feels like a no-brainer and just gives me peace of mind knowing my family will be taken care of and Ethos makes getting it fast and easy. Apply online in minutes. Get up to $3 million in coverage with no medical exam, just a few simple health questions. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com/rewatch. That is E-T-H-O-S dot com slash rewatch. Application times may vary. Rates may vary.
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42:35 Bill Simmons? Most rewatchable scene. I'll start with the treehouse scene into the rock throwing scene into the well.
42:42 Sean Fennessey? Mm hmm.
42:43 Bill Simmons? Henry's kind of feeling him out a little bit. Holding him in the treehouse because Mark, Mark decides to climb up on the hard way. Hey. If I let you go, do you think you would fly? At that point, Mark maybe should have been like, huh?
43:00 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but there's, yeah, I reminded me of like being a kid and be like, you know, again, unsupervised play, being up on like my friend's roof and being like, do you think you could jump to the other roof?
43:10 Bill Simmons? Right.
43:10 Chris Ryan? I bet you could.
43:11 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. It kind of, it's slow walks you for the first like half a scene. But then by the time like they're smoking a cigarette and firing the arrow.
43:20 Bill Simmons? At the well.
43:21 Sean Fennessey? You're like, okay.
43:22 Bill Simmons? Well, Henry has a pack of smokes, so he would have won over CR immediately.
43:26 Chris Ryan? Already gets the Sean Penn award.
43:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Philosophies about death a little bit.
43:30 Chris Ryan? Mm hmm.
43:32 Bill Simmons? What do you think happens? Seems like a decent hang. I think the the worm turns during the scene when they're being chased by the rottweiler.
43:42 Chris Ryan? Yes.
43:42 Bill Simmons? Which is the next rewatchable scene. Nice little wide shot. And then Henry slams the door and then just goes eye to eye with the rottweiler.
43:50 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
43:51 Bill Simmons? It's like, all right.
43:51 Chris Ryan? Starts barking at it.
43:53 Bill Simmons? All right. This kid might not be playing with a full deck.
43:58 Bill Simmons? Next thing to have is Henry kills a dog and they dump it into a well. With the little nail gun thing.
44:04 Chris Ryan? Is that well decorative, you think?
44:06 Sean Fennessey? Not a functioning water well?
44:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah, like I hope not.
44:09 Sean Fennessey? Full of dog blood?
44:10 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
44:11 Bill Simmons? Top five wells in a movie, creepy wells, Silent Rage.
44:14 Sean Fennessey? I mean, the ring.
44:15 Bill Simmons? Good Son.
44:15 Chris Ryan? Yeah, the ring. The ring's number one. The ring scared you off. You wouldn't even do the ring.
44:21 Bill Simmons? I don't like the ring. It makes me uncomfortable.
44:23 Sean Fennessey? The ring is amazing. Both versions, the original and the US version.
44:26 Bill Simmons? And I'm just like, that's one of those I'd get unsettled. I don't like being unsettled with a horror movie.
44:31 Sean Fennessey? I completely disagree.
44:32 Chris Ryan? That's what I live for.
44:33 Bill Simmons? No, I don't. Like, I get, like, really unsettled. Like, I'll wake up.
44:36 Sean Fennessey? The Ring in theaters, we were like, oh, god, this fucking sucks. It's so good.
44:43 Bill Simmons? Hey, Mark, where's your sense of humor? Says that at one point.
44:46 Sean Fennessey? Yep.
44:46 Bill Simmons? So that well, that dog's gonna start smelling about, I'm gonna say, a weekend.
44:50 Sean Fennessey? How deep down, though?
44:51 Chris Ryan? I mean, you wanna start talking about this? Like, how is Henry going back into the house smelling of Marlboros?
44:56 Sean Fennessey? Good note.
44:58 Chris Ryan? Isn't mom just like, and that's a great one, cuz you could just be like, yeah, Mark wanted to smoke a cigarette.
45:02 Sean Fennessey? Well, how old were you when you had your first cigarette?
45:04 Chris Ryan? First? Fifteen.
45:07 Sean Fennessey? Fifteen? That's late.
45:08 Chris Ryan? But I didn't start smoking until twenty-one.
45:10 Sean Fennessey? What about you?
45:12 Bill Simmons? Twenty-four.
45:12 Chris Ryan? What? What?
45:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
45:15 Sean Fennessey? Wow.
45:15 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
45:15 Sean Fennessey? I never in a million years would have thought I would have had a cigarette.
45:18 Chris Ryan? My, I mean, it was always like, if you can get through high school, you'll be fine. And it was like, that's the exact opposite. It's like, when cigarettes really hit you is when you get out of.
45:25 Sean Fennessey? Did your parents smoke?
45:26 Chris Ryan? They did, but not with me. They did, like, they stopped when I, when I was born.
45:30 Sean Fennessey? You make it sound like you guys all sat in a smoking parlor together.
45:36 Bill Simmons? I was twenty-three, not twenty-four. Now that I think about it.
45:38 Sean Fennessey? Twenty-three?
45:38 Bill Simmons? I blame Jim Grady.
45:40 Chris Ryan? I was thinking about this the other day. My dad used to be like, multi-packs a day. And then when I came along and into like, my earliest memories are just my dad getting in fights at restaurants about the smoking, non-smoking sections and whether they were too close. And it is kinda crazy that we were just like, there's this invisible line where you can smoke and not smoke.
45:59 Sean Fennessey? On airplanes, they had that, yeah.
46:00 Chris Ryan? As if cigarette smoke didn't roll across, yeah.
46:02 Bill Simmons? Amtrak was great, too. The smoking, non-smoking cars, but you had to walk through the smoking car to go to the cafe.
46:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
46:09 Bill Simmons? You just get, like, instant lung cancer right away.
46:12 Sean Fennessey? You only feel that now in Vegas. It's the only time you feel that again.
46:16 Bill Simmons? Henry causes a ten-car accident with Mr. Highway.
46:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
46:20 Bill Simmons? Once you realize you can do everything, anything, you're free. He's not wrong.
46:25 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, he's cooking there.
46:25 Bill Simmons? Henry's throwing some advice around. This scene's awesome. I think this is probably my most rewatchable. This is deranged, demented, fucking crazy behavior. It's a, it's a really well shot accident.
46:38 Sean Fennessey? Great truck flip.
46:39 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I feel like they almost like had to do the news report later to be like, don't worry, like, he didn't just kill 13 people.
46:45 Sean Fennessey? Right.
46:46 Chris Ryan? A miracle, but nobody was injured.
46:48 Bill Simmons? Is this a better movie of, like, he did kill like two people and they're looking for the people who did this?
46:54 Sean Fennessey? I think they need to parcel out his chaos a little bit. So if he, if he's the, the cause of a mass murder event, that would probably make it a little tough.
47:03 Bill Simmons? I think they handled this correctly. I agree with you.
47:06 Bill Simmons? I have Elijah Wood talking to the therapist on the bench about what makes people evil. She says, I don't believe in evil. And he's like, you should. Good Elijah Wood. The skating scene's awesome.
47:20 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
47:21 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
47:21 Chris Ryan? Connie on the ice.
47:23 Sean Fennessey? She's underneath there for a minute.
47:24 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
47:25 Sean Fennessey? I'm surprised that that worked out.
47:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't know if she's going to college.
47:28 Chris Ryan? And like the Camden Maine EMTs are able to revive her. Do you think she's going to college?
47:33 Bill Simmons? Nah, I don't think it's the ship sailed.
47:35 Sean Fennessey? How'd they get the shot of her under the water? I'm like, this is.
47:36 Bill Simmons? I think she has a special instructor.
47:41 Chris Ryan? Because she's brain dead or because she's just like?
47:43 Bill Simmons? I think she's under there a little too long. Yeah, I don't, yeah, the brain's got scrambled.
47:46 Sean Fennessey? It's fucking cold in there.
47:48 Bill Simmons? Really cold.
47:50 Bill Simmons? Hey, Mark, don't fuck with me.
47:51 Sean Fennessey? That's number one. Well, she's my mother now. And then, hey, Mark, don't fuck with me.
47:55 Chris Ryan? This is one thing I will say, well, I'll sleep with her what stage she goes.
47:58 Bill Simmons? Don't sleep on how incredible it was to hear Macaulay Culkin say, hey, Mark, don't fuck with me.
48:03 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
48:03 Bill Simmons? It was like, oh, um, the mom finds the duck in Henry's shed.
48:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah, among other weird disturbing things.
48:10 Bill Simmons? Henry, you knew I was looking for this. What do you have the duck for, mom? I find it hard to believe she didn't go into the shed. A little more often here. Especially after Richard's mysterious death.
48:21 Sean Fennessey? Got a lot of questions about this family.
48:23 Speaker 04 He doesn't even hide the crossbow. That's just out in the shit.
48:25 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but like that is also like one of those things. I would be more disturbed by the fact that it was homemade. You know what I mean?
48:32 Speaker 04 It makes no sense.
48:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
48:34 Sean Fennessey? Well.
48:34 Speaker 04 They should have added that his dad made it or something. He hunts with it. Like, it's just there.
48:38 Sean Fennessey? There's a whole thing surrounding this movie, which is that the plot of the movie is, is that,
48:44 Sean Fennessey? Mark's mother dies, his father has to go on a business trip.
48:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
48:47 Sean Fennessey? And so he gets dropped off all the way across the country from Arizona to Maine to stay with his family.
48:54 Bill Simmons? Couldn't have been just thrown on a plane for some reason.
48:56 Sean Fennessey? No. So he, he stays with them. Now, this family that he's staying with, staying with has, is recovering, is grieving the death of their very young son.
49:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
49:05 Sean Fennessey? Now naturally, first of all, this is not the right family to, to send this child to. They, there's gotta be somebody else who can do this.
49:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
49:11 Sean Fennessey? But they're clearly still having a lot of emotional problems to the point where Henry is doing crazy shit right in front of their face and they're so, they're all so fucked up.
49:20 Chris Ryan? But they're still like.
49:20 Sean Fennessey? That they can't acknowledge.
49:21 Chris Ryan? It's Friday night, let's go out to dinner.
49:23 Sean Fennessey? They're, they're performing normalcy.
49:25 Bill Simmons? We've had this planned for weeks. No babysitter.
49:29 Sean Fennessey? Like there's, there, I, I've seen people say like, it's very obvious that this marriage is on the rocks, like between these two people. And, but the movie is kind of like lightly coasting over, but you can explain a lot of the nitpicking stuff by just being like, these people are not locked in on what's going on around them because of what's been going on in the background of their lives.
49:45 Bill Simmons? Did you kill Richard? What if I did?
49:47 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
49:48 Bill Simmons? And then the big ending, um, mom, I need your other hand.
49:53 Chris Ryan? Gotta throw one more in there, which is, uh, Mark pulling a shiv on Henry.
49:58 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
49:58 Chris Ryan? Just be like, oh yeah, it's gonna be a gusher, you know, like.
50:01 Bill Simmons? He's like, yeah, it'll sail that way. He's like basically telling him to do it.
50:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
50:04 Bill Simmons? I like when the dad's like, Mark, what are you doing?
50:08 Sean Fennessey? Um.
50:08 Bill Simmons? I'd be like, you're fucking out of here, man. That's, here's your suitcase.
50:12 Sean Fennessey? That same scene.
50:13 Chris Ryan? Suitcase.
50:14 Bill Simmons? The bricks.
50:15 Sean Fennessey? When he's like, when he's locked in the room and then the camera, they do the like overhead tracking shot following Elijah Wood locked in the office.
50:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
50:23 Sean Fennessey? What this fucking Scorsese movie all of a sudden for five minutes?
50:26 Bill Simmons? It's crazy. It's really well directed.
50:28 Chris Ryan? Was off the set that day. They're just like, now I can do it. Hitchcock's here.
50:33 Bill Simmons? We talked about how great the ending is. Ebert wrote, everything leads up to a cliffhanging climax that somehow manages to be unconvincing, contrive, meretricious and manipulative all at once. I don't know when I've disliked the ending of a movie more.
50:50 Sean Fennessey? I think that's a little strong.
50:51 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
50:52 Bill Simmons? Honestly, fuck you, Raj. Settle down.
50:54 Chris Ryan? The second one of these From Hell movies that we've done, I can't remember how a single white female ends. You have to tell me just like instantaneously after the like, basically like the most important thing happens, there's like one beat of a coda and you're out.
51:08 Bill Simmons? Oh, single white female's opposite.
51:09 Sean Fennessey? Same with Hand That Rocks The Cradle.
51:10 Chris Ryan? That's what I'm saying.
51:11 Bill Simmons? Hand That Rock Cradle is immediate.
51:12 Chris Ryan? She's just like, goes up to Ernie Hudson.
51:13 Sean Fennessey? Ninety seconds later, credits. Yeah.
51:15 Bill Simmons? Single white female goes on for an extra 10, 15 minutes, unfortunately. Uh, so what do you have for most rewatchable?
51:21 Chris Ryan? I like Connie on the Ice. I love like, I love the, the, the, the set piece of it. It's so malevolent. It's so knowing of like, this would be the most, and he's also drowning another sibling. So, yeah.
51:34 Sean Fennessey? I, I'll just add one more, which is Henry showing up at Mark's therapist.
51:38 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
51:38 Sean Fennessey? Which is like incredible gaslighting moment. Um, my favorite scene is probably Mister Highway.
51:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
51:49 Bill Simmons? Most 1993 thing about this movie CR.
51:51 Chris Ryan? Uh, Mark playing Game Boy instead of enjoying Monument Valley.
51:55 Sean Fennessey? I had, if you missed a phone call, you couldn't talk to your dad who's in Tokyo for several days.
51:59 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
52:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
52:00 Sean Fennessey? Like he just, he's just not speaking to his father.
52:03 Bill Simmons? Key landline scenes. Yeah, there's no email, no text. And if you were out of the house when he called, that's it. You didn't get to talk to him. The dad's old Apple computer is pretty great.
52:13 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
52:13 Sean Fennessey? Oh, yeah.
52:14 Bill Simmons? He's got the old, the old school, big box, like just a giant contraption. But I had a, the car accident, none of the cars having cameras on them capturing these two psychos.
52:24 Chris Ryan? And there not being any real highway cameras or anything.
52:26 Sean Fennessey? That's right.
52:27 Bill Simmons? Just no, no, nothing knows what.
52:30 Chris Ryan? Just imagine what we could have gotten away with in the early nineties. If there, the cops probably showed up and they were like, someone threw a doll on the highway.
52:36 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
52:37 Chris Ryan? I guess we just will never know. Like cold case.
52:44 Bill Simmons? The Floyd Gondally Butter in My Ass and Lollipops in My Mouth Award for something I just enjoy. I have, we haven't talked about her yet, Macaulay Culkin's nepo sister.
52:56 Chris Ryan? Hmm.
52:56 Bill Simmons? I'm sure she's a nice person in real life and probably having a great adult life and maybe a great mom. One of the worst kid actress performances of all time. Just an absolute abomination. Can only say her lines in like this monotone voice, just has a blank face, doesn't seem scared. I don't know what she's going for.
53:18 Chris Ryan? Do you think that's because she's in a movie with like the Dylan Harper and Steph Castle of child acting?
53:23 Bill Simmons? I think that's part of it. The other part is Kit Culkin's like, and she's gonna be in the movie too, is the sister. Fire whoever else you had.
53:29 Sean Fennessey? She did not pursue an acting career. This, I think this is her last movie.
53:32 Bill Simmons? This was her only speaking part ever.
53:34 Chris Ryan? She was in this and Home Alone, right?
53:36 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
53:36 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
53:37 Bill Simmons? But I don't know if she had a speaking thing in that. I really enjoy when somebody has enough power that they can just shoehorn like their sister into like, not a small part, it's like the fifth biggest part of the movie. She has multiple key scenes.
53:51 Chris Ryan? Sure.
53:51 Bill Simmons? And, I don't know, just steps on everybody. What do you have for this?
53:56 Sean Fennessey? I love in a movie when everyone knows something is wrong and especially wrong with a kid and they just will not admit it. And there's, you know, there's a great scene between Ellen Burstyn and is it L.J. Cobb in The Exorcist? Where they're sitting at the dinner, or is it George C. Scott? I can't remember who.
54:14 Chris Ryan? Uh, Lee J. Cobb.
54:15 Sean Fennessey? Lee J. Cobb. And they're sitting at the dinner table and that's the moment where it's just like, this is fucked up. There's something like evil happening here, you know, and the movie is like finally letting you accept that Pazuzu is real.
54:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
54:29 Sean Fennessey? And this movie takes a really long ass time to get to that moment. So the whole time you're sitting there and you're just like, how does Wendy Cruisen not see that her son is a murderous sociopath for 90 minutes? And finally gets you to that point, but that's like, that's movie bullshit. It's like great movie bullshit. When no one will come out and just be like, there's something wrong with this kid.
54:48 Bill Simmons? And that's one of the From House staples, when they're just ignoring the signs for scene after scene after scene and then finally admitting it.
54:57 Chris Ryan? Uh, I'd probably go America's Sweet Heartbreak in Bed. So having Kevin McCallister say, don't fuck with me is pretty amazing.
55:06 Bill Simmons? One thing on Quinn Culkin. In that New York Times piece, a studio executive was talking about how she got shoehorned into it. It was like everything else with the father. It starts out as a request and then as it turns out, it's a demand. That's a problem with the guy.
55:21 Chris Ryan? It's like Ace Bailey.
55:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
55:27 Bill Simmons? Oh, this is fun. The Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate, along with the Den of Thieves Benihana Award for Seen Stealing Location, the house.
55:35 Sean Fennessey? It's gotta be the house in Rock Harbor.
55:36 Bill Simmons? House is great.
55:37 Chris Ryan? Can I also throw out David Morse's desert, desert, like, uh?
55:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah, where the fuck are we?
55:42 Chris Ryan? Yeah, he's like living in the-
55:43 Bill Simmons? Is that where U2 did the Red Rocks concert?
55:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it's outside of Sundance.
55:47 Bill Simmons? Is he Colorado?
55:49 Chris Ryan? He's like, I bought this place because U2's playing.
55:53 Bill Simmons? Also, they drive cross-country from clearly Arizona, Colorado, Utah, somewhere.
55:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
55:58 Bill Simmons? In that car that has no top, that old school, it was like a Ford Bronco or something.
56:03 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. He puts the plastic covering on, on the Jeep.
56:07 Chris Ryan? Where they get to the Maine in the winter, yeah.
56:09 Bill Simmons? Pretty confusing, but great house, great location. I still have the Sleeping with the Enemy house slightly above it, though.
56:15 Sean Fennessey? That one's also on the shore.
56:17 Bill Simmons? At the end of Nantucket or whatever that was. Uh, what's aged the best? What do you got, Sean?
56:24 Sean Fennessey? Well, one of the reasons why I think Kit Colkin was so perceptive is McCollough Colkin does have a kind of eerie quality as a young boy. He had a precociousness and a kind of like living doll quality that you could say is like, seems kind of evil.
56:42 Chris Ryan? I think even in Home Alone, you could, you could read Kevin as being especially malevolent.
56:47 Sean Fennessey? Yes, and he could play very sympathetic and very sweet. He's so sweet as Thomas J. and My Girl. And when, when he dies, it's so devastating because he's so sweet, but he could play like, you know, in the black or white video, the Michael Jackson video, he's like a rambunctious kid, you know, rocking out in his bedroom. And the movie is like, his father obviously identified something about him that made him very well suited to this part. So even though it may not have been the best thing for him personally, um, his dad was right, like it aged well to put him in this part.
57:17 Chris Ryan? So is your, is your hottest take going to be Kit Colkin? Should he have been running Disney?
57:21 Sean Fennessey? No, I didn't, I didn't say that.
57:23 Bill Simmons? But did he get Pixar?
57:26 Bill Simmons? I had a incredible evil little kid performance by Culkin, I think his age. So piggybacking on Sean's thing, we talked about the no special effects and the overhead shots and some of the shooting, but my favorite is, this is a plot device for, for movies like this, when there's been sadly a child that has died or something and they don't touch the bedroom. And then there's, they'll throw in the early scene where the new character is like, what's in here? And it's all pristine and then later we find out like it becomes this plot device. It always works. It's a home run 10 out of 10 times.
58:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
58:05 Bill Simmons? It always like, it's like a scab that's sitting there for the movie and then you know it's gonna get picked off.
58:10 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
58:11 Bill Simmons? It gets picked off in this movie.
58:13 Chris Ryan? Uh, age of the best I had, causing a ruckus in a semi abandoned building with your little friends.
58:18 Bill Simmons? Oh, just breaking shit?
58:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah, like that whole scene where they're in the, that, that empty warehouse or that mechanics place and just throwing rocks through the windows. That was a big, you know, being six years old and be like, we're not supposed to be here.
58:29 Bill Simmons? No repercussions.
58:30 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Uh, and then I also really liked when Culkin does taps for the dog. This is a great fucked up little character beat.
58:40 Bill Simmons? I like when he misses the cat too and Elijah Wood's excited that he missed the cat and Culkin's like, I gotta tinker with that.
58:49 Chris Ryan? That was my Eisenberg.
58:50 Sean Fennessey? Sight's not right yet.
58:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
58:51 Chris Ryan? That was my Eisenberg was like, ah, yeah, sight's not right yet.
58:55 Bill Simmons? Craig, you'd love this movie.
58:56 Chris Ryan? Can't wait for Craig's take.
58:59 Speaker 04 Into existence.
59:00 Bill Simmons? Um, yeah, I used to fuck guys like you in prison or word for craziest quote is clearly, don't fuck with me. We call the Culkin saying that. What do you have for great check order, OCR?
59:08 Chris Ryan? Uh, Henry looking down the rope at Mark? Or did you have like the, the, holding the two kids?
59:14 Sean Fennessey? I have a couple, that's a fun moment. I had Henry approaching Connie in the hospital bed and he's lit like Michael Corleone in Godfather part two.
59:21 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
59:22 Sean Fennessey? Where it's just like, like the, the demon has taken over. There's a ton of stuff in the movie where the, it's just like, it's incredibly well made for such a piece of trash. It's so funny.
59:33 Bill Simmons? Chess Rockwell Brock Laners. I didn't really feel like there was a good character name in this one.
59:36 Sean Fennessey? No.
59:37 Bill Simmons? Disappointed.
59:38 Chris Ryan? Pretty generic.
59:38 Bill Simmons? The Big Kahuna Burger, where for best use of food and drink, has the fridge freak out.
59:42 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
59:43 Sean Fennessey? Oh, yeah.
59:45 Bill Simmons? I mean, did he poison the food? Who knows?
59:46 Chris Ryan? There's another thing I didn't say for Age of the Best. Elijah Wood's character and his performance. It allows for like the 6% belief that he's also crazy, that he's also grieving his mother dying.
59:59 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, that's right.
1:00:00 Chris Ryan? And that he's losing it a little bit, you know?
1:00:02 Bill Simmons? Well, that's always one of the great devices with these movies is that it feels like the person that we know is the good guy. The perception is that they might actually be the bad person and when they can
1:00:13 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
1:00:14 Bill Simmons? Play with that, that always works.
1:00:15 Sean Fennessey? One of the best, that's one of the best things about Memento. Memento is a movie that like really messes with that point of view in terms of like, is this person gaslighting or being gaslit? And it kind of gets you right up to the edge of that in this movie, but you still, you've seen Henry do too many evil things to really ever get over the line.
1:00:33 Bill Simmons? Titanic's like that, too.
1:00:34 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, sure. Well, as we know, Rose was evil.
1:00:36 Bill Simmons? People think Billy Zane was the bad person in that movie and it's clearly Rose.
1:00:40 Sean Fennessey? Good guy, yeah.
1:00:41 Bill Simmons? Uh, what do you have for a flex here?
1:00:43 Chris Ryan? Uh, for my flex. Well, I mentioned Sean Penn. I brought my own pack for, uh, for when Colkin's smoking at the well, but I had the
1:00:51 Bill Simmons? Do you feel like that it seemed like he might have blown a dart before that?
1:00:55 Chris Ryan? I think so, and especially when they're like, they give you cancer. He's like, who cares? You're gonna die anyway.
1:00:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:01:00 Chris Ryan? Pretty good. The Richard Chetty Guard Medal Award, uh, for most memorable death by a security guard or other bystander whom the movie treats as inconsequential, but probably had a spouse and the kids who loved him. The motorists, they go to great pains to say that nobody died in that car accident. But like, I'm, I'm pretty sure someone walked away with really bad whiplash.
1:01:19 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:01:20 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:01:20 Chris Ryan? Their, their trauma is completely ignored.
1:01:21 Sean Fennessey? How did that truck driver survive?
1:01:22 Chris Ryan? I don't know. Yeah.
1:01:24 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that guy's definitely gone to the chiropractor for like three years. Butch's Girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the Film. So I, we mentioned this earlier, but all the unsafe things in this extended neighborhood, including a terrifying treehouse that doesn't have an actual ladder. Where, who is that guy who did the Netflix climb?
1:01:44 Chris Ryan? Honold?
1:01:45 Bill Simmons? At one point, you're going backwards to climb up the top of it, like it's fucking crazy? I don't know where the mom was on that. Like, hey, Henry, how do you get up on that treehouse?
1:01:53 Sean Fennessey? Did you have a treehouse growing up?
1:01:54 Bill Simmons? No.
1:01:55 Sean Fennessey? Did you?
1:01:55 Chris Ryan? No, but we had treehouse-esque things, you know, like-
1:01:59 Sean Fennessey? Like what?
1:01:59 Chris Ryan? Roof decks that weren't really connected to roofs really well, you know?
1:02:03 Sean Fennessey? Big roof episode for you.
1:02:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah. All-timer. There's the terrifying deep well that you could have just fallen to your death at any point.
1:02:10 Chris Ryan? The cliff's edge.
1:02:11 Bill Simmons? There's no, there's no like cover on the well, anything. The railroad tracks you mentioned, the highway that you could just fall off the bridge. The, just this walking bridge that has a random killer pit bull that doesn't have a leash, that could just maul anybody, and then all the cliffs. Like at one point, the kids are just lying on the cliffs peeking over like this-
1:02:32 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:02:32 Bill Simmons? Hundred-foot fall to their death. So they drop little Mark off, who's just lost his, uh, his mom. And at no point is it like, hey, just so Mark knows, like, you know, we're really out here in the middle of nowhere. Like, there's some shit, like you could really get in trouble here. No, just put him out there.
1:02:49 Chris Ryan? It's really a miracle that we're alive.
1:02:51 Sean Fennessey? It's not, it's not a very strong advertisement for Maine. It is like this entire state is a death trap.
1:02:57 Bill Simmons? It's how it feels. There's not like a safe part in the movie, even like the shed has multiple things.
1:03:04 Chris Ryan? But that's how Philadelphia felt. Like it was like, go into the park, but don't go down that path because there's supposed to be like a creepy guy down there.
1:03:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:03:11 Chris Ryan? And they, but it would still be like, but feel free to go into the park otherwise.
1:03:14 Sean Fennessey? It's very, another like very smart thing about the movie is moving from Arizona to Maine, where Arizona is just the kind of like wide open nothingness of the desert. It's like, it's actually not dangerous to be in a place like that. You're always in full view. And in Maine, it's like, no matter where you go, you're about to fall down a cliff.
1:03:29 Bill Simmons? Yeah. What'd you have for Weeklink?
1:03:31 Chris Ryan? Uh, the adults. I mean, both in terms of their behavior, but also in terms of like, I feel like we were one really cool actor short of that, in that deck, you know? Could have been, could have been a good, I, I think Houston's good, but it would have been good if we had had the original, the original actor cast for it.
1:03:48 Bill Simmons? It feels like that's where they save money. And the that was their inefficiency.
1:03:53 Chris Ryan? Kit was like, I'll take some of that. I'll take that Steenburgen money.
1:03:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they're like, maybe we can cut, cut money with the parents and we'll just give more to Culkin.
1:04:02 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, Daniel Hugh Kelly, the dad is, is like, if that was just James Remar, isn't this a better movie?
1:04:07 Bill Simmons? He's a TV actor, like, and I think he was in Cujo was the other movie.
1:04:12 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, he's a big stage actor. I was reading about him. I don't want to disparage him. It's just like, he's just not really up to the moment.
1:04:18 Chris Ryan? Now, I can't not see James Remar in this movie, you know?
1:04:20 Bill Simmons? Well, why wasn't David Morse the dad? Did they just have him for two weeks?
1:04:24 Chris Ryan? I don't know. It seemed like they had him for like two days. It's just pre David Morse being David Morse.
1:04:29 Sean Fennessey? But he was on St. Elsewhere.
1:04:30 Chris Ryan? Was he?
1:04:30 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:04:31 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's, he had a run. And Inside Moves, that's the R refuse to see. Did this movie need a better title? I'm bringing that category back.
1:04:40 Chris Ryan? I had Susan's Choice.
1:04:42 Bill Simmons? Oh. Like a Sophie's Choice.
1:04:46 Sean Fennessey? Call back, I'm already giving away the climax of the movie. I mean, Ebert nails it, right? With Henry Portrait of a Future Serial Killer. I did, I, Every Mother's Son. There's like, something about who is really, who is the true mom to Mark and who's the true mom to Henry in this movie, you know?
1:05:04 Chris Ryan? I like that.
1:05:04 Bill Simmons? Good. I could see that in the Netflix thumbnail.
1:05:06 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:05:08 Bill Simmons? I have the winner. Bad Brother.
1:05:10 Chris Ryan? Very good.
1:05:11 Sean Fennessey? Oh, yeah.
1:05:12 Chris Ryan? Very good.
1:05:12 Bill Simmons? Just a better title.
1:05:13 Sean Fennessey? Well, the Netflix title, you know what it would be. It would be, whoops, I killed my brother. Just kidding, now I'm gonna kill my new brother.
1:05:20 Chris Ryan? It's me, Henry, the guy who killed my daughter, my sister.
1:05:24 Bill Simmons? I don't really understand why it's called The Good Son.
1:05:27 Chris Ryan? Well, because who's the good son? Right?
1:05:29 Sean Fennessey? I think it's riffing on Cain and Abel, the biblical allegory.
1:05:34 Bill Simmons? Bad Brother does a better job, I think.
1:05:35 Chris Ryan? Shout out to Bad Brother.
1:05:36 Bill Simmons? What's Age the Worst? Um, as you know, one of my passions in life is random soccer scenes being thrown into movies.
1:05:44 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:05:45 Bill Simmons? So we have Elijah Wood in the beginning. Um, in classic Hollywood, Elijah Wood's never really played soccer before. Lot of close ups. We see there's some sort of, he's old enough, he's 10, like a 10 year old soccer game's gonna be a fairly high level. It's just a lot of kids clustered.
1:06:01 Chris Ryan? Fairly high level.
1:06:02 Bill Simmons? Well, it's gonna be more spread out.
1:06:03 Chris Ryan? This is, this is more like five year old soccer.
1:06:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:06:06 Sean Fennessey? Why didn't they just cast Ronaldinho, you know?
1:06:08 Chris Ryan? I know.
1:06:09 Bill Simmons? It looks like an AYSO under five, like first time everyone's played. And he somehow gets a goal in traffic and he's like, yeah.
1:06:17 Chris Ryan? People wonder why America has no chance at the World Cups. Watch The Good Son.
1:06:21 Bill Simmons? It's fucking bullshit.
1:06:22 Chris Ryan? This is what our 10 year olds are doing. Got to have structure.
1:06:25 Bill Simmons? And they all do the same stuff. The, the, our character is always gonna score the goal. It's always gonna be shot way too close up, so we don't have to see anybody running or any sort of setup of a goal or anything, and they're just trying to get through it. And it's, it's a passion of mine, CR.
1:06:39 Sean Fennessey? Did you do any telestration on this sequence?
1:06:41 Chris Ryan? There's nothing to telestrate. It's just 22 kids just running around in circles.
1:06:45 Bill Simmons? It's, there's no 10 year old soccer game that would have that kind of spacing. I'm sorry. Unless it's like a pickup game at recess or something.
1:06:52 Chris Ryan? This is pre Pep Guardiola and our understanding of positional awareness, but I, I, I get what you're saying, Bill. Yeah.
1:06:58 Bill Simmons? Thanks. Uh, the music's pretty bad.
1:07:01 Chris Ryan? It's Elmer Bernstein. This is the second.
1:07:03 Bill Simmons? It's just corny, like.
1:07:04 Chris Ryan? Big Elmer movie we've done because he did Animal House. It's the same problem with Animal House where it's like, did Elmer Bernstein watch this movie?
1:07:11 Bill Simmons? No, he's like, hey, I created some tracks. Just take them.
1:07:14 Sean Fennessey? First of all, just watch your mouths, both of you. Second of all, this is just crazy. Third of all, you also just did Ghostbusters, which is one of the great movie scores of all time.
1:07:21 Bill Simmons? Not everyone, not everyone can hit a homerun every time out.
1:07:25 Sean Fennessey? Guys, he did the score for The Ten Commandments, The Sweet Smell of Success, HUD, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Great Escape, My Left Foot. One of the great film composers of all time.
1:07:35 Chris Ryan? I'm not saying he's not great. Do you think that the music matches the movie?
1:07:37 Bill Simmons? You're allowed a mail-in every once in a while.
1:07:39 Sean Fennessey? I thought it was good. I liked it. I liked the score.
1:07:41 Bill Simmons? Are you gonna go 52 for 52 in your newsletter?
1:07:43 Chris Ryan? Yeah, when you drive home today, are you listening to it?
1:07:45 Sean Fennessey? I feel like I'm three for seven right now, so.
1:07:48 Chris Ryan? 52 for 52.
1:07:50 Bill Simmons? The credit titles weren't great. They're like, the music and the credit titles feel very like early 90s to me.
1:07:55 Chris Ryan? It's like baby boom music. Yeah.
1:07:57 Sean Fennessey? You guys are just fucking assholes. I don't know. What the hell?
1:08:00 Bill Simmons? I think Elmer just gave them, he's like, it's a good sign with Macaulay Culkin. This movie's gonna suck. Here. I'll send you some A-track.
1:08:08 Chris Ryan? You know what would've been good? Okay, so they don't do the credits. They have Mark's, uh, Mark's mom dies funeral. They hit the road. ACDC, Thunderstruck.
1:08:19 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, Billy Squires, The Stroke.
1:08:21 Chris Ryan? Dan the stroke.
1:08:25 Bill Simmons? Or it goes to 93 hip hop.
1:08:27 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:08:28 Bill Simmons? All of a sudden, they're playing Dre and Snoop.
1:08:29 Chris Ryan? That would be good. Yeah.
1:08:31 Sean Fennessey? You're moving from the west coast to the east coast.
1:08:33 Chris Ryan? No, yeah, I like native tongues.
1:08:35 Bill Simmons? I have one more What Stage The Worst. The whole, if you close this deal in Tokyo, you and Mark are set.
1:08:40 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:08:41 Bill Simmons? What's going on here?
1:08:42 Chris Ryan? So this definitely just feels like sex tourism to me. I have no idea what's going on, but like, the idea that this is like, almost like the extension of like, the gung ho era of like, people's relationship to Japan in the eighties and nineties being like, you just, I can't break this date. They won't understand that my wife just died.
1:09:01 Sean Fennessey? They were gonna take over my, the economy of America.
1:09:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah, so I imagine he is a small business owner, his own boss, and like, there's nobody he can voice this off onto, but what is the deal?
1:09:13 Bill Simmons? In Japan, it's like, we hear that your wife just died, but the deal evaporates tomorrow and they should come out. I just, I don't know.
1:09:21 Chris Ryan? And if you're going to Japan, you should be a little bit more conversant in Nintendo's products. He's like, oh, you're done bombing the universe over there, big guy? It's like.
1:09:27 Bill Simmons? How about this idea? Bring the fucking kid with you. It's his, it's his winter break or whatever it was. Bring him to Tokyo, get him a hotel room.
1:09:34 Chris Ryan? What is the gung ho era? Uh, just the movie Gung Ho where a Japanese car company takes over an American car factory. And it was just like, there was a movie or two made about like, the relationship between.
1:09:45 Sean Fennessey? Michael Keaton movie?
1:09:46 Chris Ryan? The two cultures.
1:09:48 Bill Simmons? Good movie. I, I think probably has not, there's probably some pieces that have not aged great. I haven't seen it in a while, but my guy Michael Keaton said.
1:09:55 Chris Ryan? Did you fire that up, Reese? You got it on 4K?
1:09:56 Sean Fennessey? I did. I watched it during the pandemic.
1:09:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah?
1:09:58 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. We did a Michael Keaton Hall of Fame. It wasn't my favorite thing that we watched.
1:10:02 Bill Simmons? What else do you have for What Stage The Worst?
1:10:04 Chris Ryan? Uh, when Henry does it, when Henry says, uh, tells Mark that his mom is maggot food, I feel like at any age, Henry's taking a fucking.
1:10:14 Bill Simmons? Right. You're fighting.
1:10:15 Chris Ryan? Here, out. Like, Mark is kicking Henry out of that treehouse. And Mark's just like, no, she's not. I'm like, that's pretty deep cut.
1:10:21 Bill Simmons? That's a bench colonium brawl.
1:10:23 Chris Ryan? Uh, we've obviously just addressed David Morse, the least involved parent of the 20th century. And the ending, the very ending where like, you basically get Mark's weird, like, I wonder if she would make the same choice again. And there's no accountability for Davenport. How did Connie and Wallace react? You know, there's no, there, I just wanted like one extra.
1:10:44 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I put that in Z. Want Neo where I'm like, why are we up Focion Mark now? Like this should, this is now about Wendy Cruisen's character.
1:10:51 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:10:52 Sean Fennessey? Like killed her son after losing her other son.
1:10:55 Chris Ryan? And does like law enforcement come through and be like, gosh, turns out there was a huge crime wave that this kid Henry was responsible for. We missed it.
1:11:01 Bill Simmons? I would have added one extra scene, one more soccer game.
1:11:04 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
1:11:05 Bill Simmons? Another goal for Mark.
1:11:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:11:07 Bill Simmons? Cuts to Wendy Cruisen with Mr. Highway and they're celebrating.
1:11:13 Chris Ryan? Mr. Highway's like.
1:11:16 Bill Simmons? She throws Mr. Highway on the field and then say to the game. Hans Gruber scale for villain ranking, Henry's like a nine.
1:11:23 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I had an eight.
1:11:24 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:11:24 Sean Fennessey? He's pretty, he's pretty mean.
1:11:26 Chris Ryan? So in your, in this rating, Hans is 10?
1:11:29 Bill Simmons? Nobody can be higher than Hans.
1:11:31 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:11:32 Bill Simmons? That's why it's the Hans Gruber scale.
1:11:33 Chris Ryan? I disagree with you.
1:11:35 Bill Simmons? Who's higher than Hans?
1:11:35 Chris Ryan? I just think Hans had his motivations, like Hans was, you know, first of all, a committed leftist. And second of all, was really just interested in getting his hands on bear bonds. There's a lot more crazy people out there.
1:11:47 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:11:48 Sean Fennessey? Where does, um?
1:11:49 Chris Ryan? He wanted the Crimson Dawn out of prison.
1:11:51 Sean Fennessey? Like where does Lou Cypher fit, figure into this scale, you know, like?
1:11:55 Bill Simmons? Good question.
1:11:56 Sean Fennessey? Feel like we could get a little bit more evil than Hans.
1:11:59 Bill Simmons? This was created during a Kyle Brand podcast when we were talking about how bad Powers Booth was in sudden death. Right? And I think we gave him like a one and a half out of 10. And at some point it became the Hans Gruber scale. I don't know if we'd put a ton of thought into whether it should be after Hans Gruber.
1:12:15 Chris Ryan? Look, I may be.
1:12:16 Bill Simmons? I'm going to open up to the.
1:12:17 Chris Ryan? Maybe I'm a Gruber apologist. I don't know.
1:12:19 Sean Fennessey? It's hard to apply this category to a film that has like explorations of sociopathy.
1:12:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:12:25 Sean Fennessey? Or evil, like Payman is a 10 out of 10. Pazuzu is a 10.
1:12:29 Chris Ryan? Well, once he is possessed, yeah.
1:12:31 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, but the demon, the demon itself, right?
1:12:35 Bill Simmons? Like here comes the telephone open.
1:12:41 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, a lot of talk about Apex Mountain for this pod, but you-
1:12:45 Bill Simmons? Yeah, people obviously didn't see Hereditary.
1:12:47 Sean Fennessey? Ruko doing Hereditary is probably the hardest I've ever laughed on this show.
1:12:52 Bill Simmons? Ruffalo Hannah, Ruben Partridge, overacting award. This goes to Quinn Culkin for the underacting. Can we do underacting for this or no?
1:12:59 Chris Ryan? Sure.
1:12:59 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:13:00 Sean Fennessey? Elijah dials it up a couple of times.
1:13:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah, when he's throwing all the food down their disposal.
1:13:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Oh, true. That's good. That's a good answer for this. All right, we'll take one more break and then we got Sean's flex.
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1:14:11 Bill Simmons? All right, Sean's flex, what do you got?
1:14:12 Sean Fennessey? So the reason I put The Shining on my list is because there's a shining criteria orgasm in this movie. You just mentioned the bombing the universe line, which is a direct line that pulled from what Jack Torrance says to his son Danny in The Shining. And the movie, this movie knows what it's doing when it makes that reference to The Shining.
1:14:30 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:14:32 Bill Simmons? Do we have to retire the category after Spielberg melted your vertebrae?
1:14:36 Sean Fennessey? It's up to you. You tell me.
1:14:38 Bill Simmons? No, I like this category.
1:14:39 Sean Fennessey? I mean, I don't know if I'll ever have a better moment in my life.
1:14:42 Chris Ryan? Do you think he will watch Jaws 2?
1:14:46 Speaker 04 He said he saw it 20 years later.
1:14:48 Chris Ryan? Oh, he did, okay.
1:14:50 Sean Fennessey? We went to bat for it a couple of times.
1:14:52 Bill Simmons? I snuck it under my breath a second time.
1:14:54 Sean Fennessey? He did, yeah.
1:14:55 Bill Simmons? I really wanted to make it clear to him that I was okay with the movie for some reason.
1:14:59 Sean Fennessey? My big regret was that I couldn't pitch him on why it was an interesting movie. And because he was, you could see he just didn't want to hear it. But, you know, the whole thing about it being like a slasher movie, but with a shark.
1:15:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:15:10 Sean Fennessey? That was a cool thing that happened.
1:15:12 Chris Ryan? I wonder if for him, he's like, that would be like me telling you like why Heifetz's version of the big picture really worked for me.
1:15:21 Chris Ryan? He's like, yeah, no fucking way, yeah.
1:15:23 Sean Fennessey? Possibly, yeah.
1:15:24 Bill Simmons? Oh shit, Heifetz is gonna send a pitch now. Have an idea for a spinoff.
1:15:29 Sean Fennessey? Literally every other episode of The Ringer Fantasy Football Show is Craig asking Danny if he's seen a movie and he's like, I haven't seen that.
1:15:36 Bill Simmons? That would be the podcast.
1:15:37 Chris Ryan? How many movies did he see?
1:15:38 Bill Simmons? Him just seeing every movie.
1:15:39 Speaker 04 Heifetz?
1:15:39 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:15:40 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's alarming how little very popular movies from the 90s and 2000s he has seen.
1:15:45 Sean Fennessey? He didn't know who No Doubt was.
1:15:48 Chris Ryan? What, like, he's such a unique person.
1:15:50 Sean Fennessey? He's like, Gwen Stefani was in No Doubt?
1:15:53 Chris Ryan? How did Heifetz get hired in the first place?
1:15:54 Bill Simmons? I think the first 20 years of his life, he just was watching football and basketball.
1:15:58 Sean Fennessey? Grinding tape.
1:15:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah, and that was it.
1:16:03 Bill Simmons? Oh, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. I'll start us off.
1:16:09 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
1:16:10 Bill Simmons? I think this is Macaulay Culkin's greatest performance, and I don't even know if it's a hottest take.
1:16:14 Chris Ryan? I don't know how hot that is.
1:16:15 Bill Simmons? I genuinely believe it. I think it should be mentioned first. I don't care how popular Kevin McCallister was. I know how big Home Alone was as a franchise. I think this is a much harder role. And he's really good as an evil kid. I don't, like, this movie, it's one of those, we talk about this sometimes on this show. Sometimes movies just shouldn't work. This movie literally needs two of the best kid actors, probably the last 50 years. To both be in the same movie with the director who totally gets it. But I think this movie probably had a 10% chance of working. Or else it's like that movie I watched, Mikey with Brian Bottso.
1:16:50 Sean Fennessey? Absolutely.
1:16:50 Bill Simmons? It just goes in that direction and then becomes that.
1:16:52 Sean Fennessey? Becomes pure camp.
1:16:53 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:16:54 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I my hottest take is related to what you're saying because I feel similarly and that it's that. This movie should have been an even bigger deal because Elijah Wood and Macaulay Culkin should have both been coming off of. Academy Awards for supporting actor, Culkin for his performance as Thomas J and my girl and Elijah Wood for his performance. In, oh shoot, I forgot what the movie was that Elijah was in right before this.
1:17:16 Bill Simmons? The War?
1:17:16 Sean Fennessey? No, no, no, no, uh, uh, Radio Flyer.
1:17:21 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah, yeah.
1:17:22 Sean Fennessey? And Macaulay should have beaten Jack Palance for City Slickers and Elijah should have beaten Gene Hackman in Unforgiven.
1:17:29 Chris Ryan? That's not actually your take. That's like, that's like you're just.
1:17:31 Bill Simmons? It's the hottest take.
1:17:32 Sean Fennessey? It's my hottest take. It's my hottest take.
1:17:35 Bill Simmons? Could Macaulay?
1:17:36 Chris Ryan? Can you imagine Elijah Wood accepting an Oscar and just be like, Hack, it's just great to be nominated with these. These other performers, Hackman, I've looked up to you for all eight years of my life.
1:17:47 Sean Fennessey? If you've seen Radio Flyer, you know what a success that is. Another Richard Donner film maybe you haven't seen, just like.
1:17:52 Bill Simmons? That would have been the worst moment of Gene Hackman's life until the TikTok craze of Gene Hackman's secret tunnel started.
1:17:57 Chris Ryan? But somehow don't think that's bothering Gene Hackman anymore, but yeah.
1:18:01 Bill Simmons? It's somewhere in the afterlife. He's bothered. He's like, really? 95 years, a million great movies.
1:18:06 Chris Ryan? The ghost afterlife where it's either dark or light.
1:18:09 Bill Simmons? These fucking weirdo TikTok people.
1:18:10 Sean Fennessey? Do you have any secret tunnels?
1:18:13 Bill Simmons? Do you know how hard it would be to just make a secret tunnel?
1:18:16 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Didn't you see Euphoria? Zoning here is impossible.
1:18:18 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, that's right. That's right. But that is what the guy with the secret tunnel would say.
1:18:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:18:22 Sean Fennessey? You know how hard it would be to do this?
1:18:25 Chris Ryan? How crazy would I have to be to have a series of tunnels?
1:18:30 Bill Simmons? Did you have a hot take or?
1:18:31 Chris Ryan? I have two. Uh, one is at the, uh, at the end of the day, I feel like Susan chooses blood over truth and she, she saves, she saves Henry over Mark and she's just like, it is what it is. That's my son. I'm not losing another one and we're just gonna have to figure this out. And honestly, the getaway plan is right there. You could probably blame a lot of it on Mark. Distraught, disturbed. He did Mr. Highway. He's the one who threatened, uh, Kareen or, you know, like you could get away with a lot of like.
1:19:01 Bill Simmons? That was the single way female plot where she was trying to basically set up Bridget Fonda for all of it.
1:19:05 Sean Fennessey? I think it's not even a hot take. I think it's actually the right take.
1:19:08 Chris Ryan? So you would save?
1:19:09 Sean Fennessey? It's not defensible to save Mark.
1:19:12 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:19:12 Sean Fennessey? It's just, as a parent, it's just not.
1:19:14 Bill Simmons? I mean, Henry did try to kill her three minutes earlier.
1:19:16 Sean Fennessey? He did, but at least like institutionalized the kid.
1:19:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah. She could be like, he was, he was having like, he was disturbed.
1:19:22 Speaker 04 Cause it's really only one moment in her eyes that he broke. She hasn't seen any of the other stuff.
1:19:26 Chris Ryan? So she, she has a feeling he killed Richard.
1:19:29 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:19:29 Chris Ryan? He was kind of admitting.
1:19:31 Speaker 04 But she makes a very quick conclusion, like 30 seconds after he does this one thing to let him die.
1:19:35 Sean Fennessey? Even as a parent, you watch your kids do things and you're just like, I wish they didn't do that just now, but you're like, eh, you know, willing to forgive it. They're my child.
1:19:42 Bill Simmons? Well, you think about it, steals the duck, says, so what if I did? When she asks if he killed Richard and then, um, tries to push her off a cliff and does, and she almost falls to her death.
1:19:52 Sean Fennessey? I feel like the better pitch, the better question here is not whether you would save me or Chris, but whether you would save Ben after revealing that he's killed someone or Chris. If you're holding Ben Simmons and you're holding CR.
1:20:04 Chris Ryan? Murderer Ben Simmons or me?
1:20:08 Bill Simmons? I'd probably at that point, remember I thought Chris got a little chirpy after the Eagles Pat Super Bowl. I'd probably let him go. Just got a split second of chirpiness.
1:20:16 Chris Ryan? Some settled down juices. I throw you into the ocean.
1:20:19 Bill Simmons? Just a little settled down.
1:20:20 Chris Ryan? There's the most settled down juice in the world.
1:20:23 Sean Fennessey? My friend.
1:20:24 Bill Simmons? No more Eagles Super Bowls for you.
1:20:27 Chris Ryan? My other hottest take was that if Henry's parents were just a little bit more engaged, they would have seen that this is an NHL pest and enforcer in the making. And you could have channeled all that aggression.
1:20:39 Bill Simmons? Good skater.
1:20:40 Chris Ryan? Youth hockey.
1:20:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:20:41 Chris Ryan? That guy's on the Bs by 95.
1:20:43 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:20:45 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's on the third line.
1:20:46 Speaker 04 I was like Wallace, if he had an ounce of an eye as a scout, he would have seen that this kid's accurate.
1:20:51 Chris Ryan? That guy's skate speed was incredible.
1:20:53 Speaker 04 He was a great skater.
1:20:54 Bill Simmons? It seemed like it was Culkin, too, doing the skating.
1:20:57 Chris Ryan? He slingshots that.
1:20:58 Speaker 04 This poor kid's fucking cooped up. Harness it. He's got cabin fever.
1:21:01 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:21:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:21:02 Speaker 04 He's got nothing to do all day.
1:21:03 Bill Simmons? Didn't love the throwing motion from him.
1:21:05 Chris Ryan? No, but like he looks like McDavid out there. Like, let's fucking tap into it.
1:21:10 Speaker 04 I agree.
1:21:11 Bill Simmons? Casting what ifs.
1:21:13 Speaker 04 This kid, he plays in sports. What's he doing every day?
1:21:16 Bill Simmons? Casting what ifs, they almost made this in 1988 with Michael Klesick as Henry. I don't know who that is.
1:21:23 Chris Ryan? And then Jesse Bradford, right?
1:21:25 Bill Simmons? With Mary Steenburgen as the mom.
1:21:29 Bill Simmons? And Michael Lehman, who directed Heathers, is the director.
1:21:32 Chris Ryan? Do you think a Michael Lehman directed version of this has like more tongue in cheek black comedy?
1:21:37 Sean Fennessey? For sure, just based on all the movies that he's made in his career, but would that have made sense for this?
1:21:42 Chris Ryan? I mean, I don't know if totally it would have worked. Obviously Kit was like, hit the bricks.
1:21:45 Bill Simmons? Kit Culkin dumped his ass, yeah.
1:21:48 Bill Simmons? Kit Culkin's like, you're out. My son's the hottest star in the world for nine more months. You're out.
1:21:53 Sean Fennessey? He did.
1:21:54 Speaker 04 The LeVar Ball of Hollywood, Dad.
1:21:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah, no question. Best that guy award. I don't think Daniel Hugh Kelly is a that guy, except for Craig's generation.
1:22:03 Chris Ryan? Well, who is he then?
1:22:03 Bill Simmons? Well, I think the therapist is the that guy.
1:22:06 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:22:06 Bill Simmons? I know, I've seen that lady. I don't, I have no idea what her name is.
1:22:09 Chris Ryan? For a while. I think she's done a lot of like stage stuff.
1:22:12 Sean Fennessey? Wendy Cruzen is not a that guy?
1:22:13 Bill Simmons? Wendy Cruzen is probably the mom from The Good Son. So that would make her that guy, which I think would qualify her.
1:22:20 Chris Ryan? This category is becoming needless to accomplish.
1:22:22 Bill Simmons? Or mom from Santa Claus.
1:22:23 Sean Fennessey? But, but nobody knows that.
1:22:26 Bill Simmons? Most people don't know what her name is. Yeah, that's probably the best answer.
1:22:29 Chris Ryan? Didn't this used to be the Joey Pants that guy award?
1:22:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:22:33 Chris Ryan? I say, I feel like we're getting away from the original text.
1:22:36 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:22:36 Chris Ryan? And you can't be.
1:22:37 Bill Simmons? Some notes from CR.
1:22:38 Chris Ryan? Well, you can't.
1:22:39 Sean Fennessey? Sounds like someone's getting dropped off the cliff.
1:22:41 Chris Ryan? No, I'm just saying, you can't be that guyed in the movie that you're in. You can't be, Wendy Cruzen is obviously from The Good Son. It's, it's Daniel Hugh Kelly. It was from Hard Castle and McCormick.
1:22:53 Bill Simmons? Is that true?
1:22:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:22:55 Sean Fennessey? This is big TV.
1:22:57 Chris Ryan? There's like sixty seven episodes.
1:22:58 Bill Simmons? But he wasn't in Ten Speed and Thunderfoot? What was that one? Remember that one? Ten Speed and Brown Shoe?
1:23:03 Chris Ryan? All the TV shows, when you look up these people's credits, they're just like, did Tarantino make this up? Or is this real?
1:23:10 Bill Simmons? There was some show that was, they did the Instagram video of the, of the opening credits from nineteen seventy seven called Blansky's Beauties. It was a Happy Days skin off, a spin off. And it was set in Vegas. And, uh, and none of us, I was on with people my age, like Jimmy and our friend Rob Mills. And we were all like, does anyone remember the show? It was thirteen episodes of it. And I was like, how did I not know about this show? It was Strippers in Vegas. Like a comedy.
1:23:37 Sean Fennessey? Wow.
1:23:38 Bill Simmons? Scott Baio was in it. Pat Burrito was in it. But yeah, the point is, shows just came and went. We never knew what was going on.
1:23:44 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. It's so easy to make them up too, right? It's just like.
1:23:48 Chris Ryan? Two names.
1:23:48 Sean Fennessey? Jiminy McCorcall, PhD.
1:23:50 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:23:51 Sean Fennessey? He's a, he's a rap scallion professor at a New England university.
1:23:54 Bill Simmons? This would be a good use of AI.
1:23:55 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, well, no. Why, why?
1:23:57 Bill Simmons? No, fake, fake trailers from the seventies and eighties. You have to decide whether they are a real show or not.
1:24:03 Sean Fennessey? I'll get cracking on Jiminy McCorcall.
1:24:05 Chris Ryan? AI is just making Too Many Cooks.
1:24:07 Sean Fennessey? That's what it is. It's, that's what Too Many Cooks did.
1:24:09 Bill Simmons? Supertrain was this big NBC show in the late seventies. Fred Silverman went to NBC from ABC. Big executive. This was his big expensive show, Supertrain. And it was basically Love Boat on a train. And they would just show these wide shots of this train going fast. And then it would be like starring Vic Tabak. And, um, it was an all time legendary TV bob.
1:24:31 Chris Ryan? I don't know any of the names that you just mentioned.
1:24:34 Sean Fennessey? Then they remade it thirty years later as Snowpiercer.
1:24:37 Bill Simmons? Right. Then they decided this is much better as a futuristic horror show. Uh, Dan Waiters was tough. I get the pit bull.
1:24:43 Chris Ryan? I got Morse.
1:24:45 Sean Fennessey? I chose cinematographer John Lindley.
1:24:48 Bill Simmons? Oh, wow. I like it.
1:24:50 Sean Fennessey? Huge moment for him. Went on to shoot movies for like Nora Ephron. Not really the showiest cinematographer in movie history, but five or six times watching this 82 minute movie, I was like, damn.
1:25:01 Chris Ryan? Also, he's kind of responsible for that early 90s look, I guess.
1:25:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Recasting Couch Director City. We mentioned Mary Steenburgen. Let's go for the big guns here. This is a Michelle Pfeiffer movie. Like, this would have been the fucking perfect Michelle Pfeiffer movie.
1:25:17 Chris Ryan? Young grieving widow.
1:25:18 Bill Simmons? This is two, two years before Dangerous Minds. It's like four years after Fabulous Baker Boys. Realistic that she would have a 10 year old son. I think she would have classic Michelle Pfeiffer faces of being upset, like just like
1:25:34 Chris Ryan? Yeah, kind of like a proto what lies beneath vibe to it.
1:25:37 Bill Simmons? And even what's the thing she's in now with Kurt Russell? Where she's just like having a glass of wine, looking out sadly and like she's, nobody's better.
1:25:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:25:47 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. A little bit of a like, what is this smoke show doing in Rock Harbor, Maine, married to this guy?
1:25:52 Chris Ryan? You'd have to upgrade.
1:25:52 Bill Simmons? No makeup for her.
1:25:53 Chris Ryan? You'd have to upgrade Wallace, too. If that's the case, then you need to get
1:25:56 Sean Fennessey? That's when you get remarried.
1:25:57 Chris Ryan? Sam Shepard as Wallace.
1:26:00 Bill Simmons? This sounds like a great movie.
1:26:03 Bill Simmons? We get Hank.
1:26:04 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, upgrade Morse from Hank.
1:26:06 Bill Simmons? Hank's in Pfeiffer. Let's go.
1:26:07 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, sure. Why not? We should just do Cruise at 25 as Mark.
1:26:12 Chris Ryan? Can you imagine Kit Colkin on the set with Morse, with Sam Shepard, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Tom Hanks? It's like, go back to your fucking trailer, okay? Relight my son. Have a snack.
1:26:24 Bill Simmons? What do you have for flex?
1:26:25 Speaker 04 We might get a Kit Colkin award. I don't know if that's right. I was all bummed because I thought my Henry should have played hockey. I had that.
1:26:35 Speaker 04 I'm gonna go with the OK, motherfucker award for the exact moment when this movie went up a notch. When Connie is drowning and Henry is just kind of limply holding his hand out.
1:26:44 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:26:45 Speaker 04 And for a second, you're like, oh, okay, he wanted her to get in the water, but he's gonna save her. And the hand is just out of reach. It was kind of a special.
1:26:52 Chris Ryan? No, it's amazing because it's like if you were a witness to that, you'd be like, he tried to save her.
1:26:56 Speaker 04 He's trying. Yeah. It's a special kind of dimension.
1:26:58 Bill Simmons? He's just kinda like.
1:26:59 Speaker 04 Liz got up and like went to the bathroom. She's like, I can't. This is wicked.
1:27:05 Sean Fennessey? Only thing that would have been worse is if they let Connie die in the movie. That would have been, that would have been truly like the restrictor plate is off.
1:27:11 Chris Ryan? I was like, there's no way they're killing anyone else. The daughter's definitely not gonna die. And then when she sinks down and goes under the ice, I was like, holy fuck, are they gonna kill Connie? Yeah.
1:27:19 Sean Fennessey? That would have been deeply malevolent.
1:27:23 Bill Simmons? Could argue it would have been a better movie.
1:27:26 Bill Simmons? Could argue it.
1:27:28 Sean Fennessey? Is this month actually sick fuck Bill Simmons?
1:27:30 Bill Simmons? I have to say it.
1:27:31 Chris Ryan? Sick fuck month.
1:27:32 Bill Simmons? It's like they, they go 90% there, but not all the way.
1:27:36 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:27:36 Bill Simmons? Uh, half I started a research. The cigarettes they smoked was a tube filled with dried parsley and lettuce leaves.
1:27:42 Chris Ryan? I don't really get that.
1:27:44 Bill Simmons? I think that's bullshit. I think they were ripping darts.
1:27:46 Chris Ryan? They were fucking, yeah.
1:27:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah. It's early 90s.
1:27:48 Chris Ryan? It's Marvel country.
1:27:49 Bill Simmons? They filmed the cliff scene at Palisade Head, Minnesota, and used tugboats to make the cliff, make the water seem choppy like they're in Maine. They were dangled off the cliff secured by a safety crane and cable. They also constructed a fake cliff to make it easier to shoot the hanging stuff, stunt coordinator, the whole thing. After discussions with Culkin and his parents, he agreed to do a 30-foot fall on a cable on the actual cliff, but wanted one thing in return for this act of bravery, a BB gun. This is actually in the research.
1:28:25 Chris Ryan? That's very Henry.
1:28:26 Sean Fennessey? Shits of Henry, yeah.
1:28:27 Bill Simmons? Also, he got like $5 million for this movie.
1:28:30 Chris Ryan? Get your own fucking BB gun.
1:28:31 Bill Simmons? Just give him the BB gun anyway.
1:28:32 Sean Fennessey? Sounds like Jesus Christ. $5 million, but yeah.
1:28:36 Bill Simmons? They filmed some stuff in Beverly, Massachusetts. It's Manchester by the Sea and blah, blah, blah. And then you mentioned the tie, there's a tie-in novel? I never know what the tie-in novels.
1:28:45 Chris Ryan? Novelization, yeah.
1:28:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I never know what to make of those.
1:28:48 Sean Fennessey? Some of them are good.
1:28:49 Bill Simmons? They make Henry a sociopath, where it's just like, they dive into like, he just can't feel anything, basically. Uh, Macaulay Culkin, Elijah Wood, very close friends to this day.
1:29:01 Chris Ryan? Cool. It's great.
1:29:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:29:04 Chris Ryan? I would get pretty freaked out if I saw the two of them together.
1:29:07 Bill Simmons? And then you mentioned, you mentioned the UK thing. When it finally edited. Uh, was released in the UK in nineteen ninety five as a video release. Two years later, they edited out everything that happens with Mr. Highway. He's basically on the bridge and then she's, you don't see anything.
1:29:23 Chris Ryan? The UK had moved on to Oasis by then. They're like, well, it doesn't really matter.
1:29:27 Sean Fennessey? The idea of being okay to murder a dog, but not okay to drop a, you know, a scarecrow.
1:29:32 Bill Simmons? They were fearing of the copycat thing. That happened. Remember that movie, The Program? Which we've done the rewatchables.
1:29:37 Sean Fennessey? Kids laying down in the street.
1:29:38 Bill Simmons? Laying down in the street became like, that's like, edit that out of the TV. Yeah. Apex Mountain.
1:29:46 Bill Simmons? Colkin.
1:29:49 Bill Simmons? It's probably Home Alone Two.
1:29:51 Chris Ryan? I think this period though, right?
1:29:52 Bill Simmons? This period. He's, he's on Apex Mountain for a couple of years.
1:29:56 Sean Fennessey? I wrote his, it's his apex for bankability, that he could get this movie to sixty million dollars just by seeming evil in the trailer that he described.
1:30:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Do you think Spielberg understood what Apex Mountain was?
1:30:08 Sean Fennessey? I don't think I do. So, uh.
1:30:10 Bill Simmons? I felt like he was, seemed like he understood.
1:30:13 Chris Ryan? I think he wa, it seemed like he grasped it.
1:30:16 Sean Fennessey? I think, I think he was in a great mood.
1:30:18 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:30:19 Bill Simmons? See, uh, when we do Jaws with him next year, cause he claims they're doing it, I'm gonna get rid of these chairs so we can do four chairs in here.
1:30:25 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:30:26 Sean Fennessey? Yep. So it'll be me, Bill, Rob Mahoney and Steven.
1:30:32 Chris Ryan? Steven, Kit Colkin, Bill and Sean.
1:30:36 Bill Simmons? We, we, the, you, the Jaws thing, that'll be it. That might be my retirement podcast. Yeah, that'll be done. I'll be done after that.
1:30:43 Chris Ryan? You guys don't want to do Lincoln as the last one?
1:30:46 Sean Fennessey? I mean, there's any number of movies I'd like to ask him about that he's made.
1:30:50 Bill Simmons? The thing is, he's made so many. What, I mean. Somebody sent me an email. If you took out the top four movies. A director or actor made, you just, you made the list, you wiped out the top four. Would he still, would Spielberg still have one of the best careers ever?
1:31:08 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:31:08 Sean Fennessey? No question.
1:31:09 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:31:09 Bill Simmons? So how many people, how many people could you say that about?
1:31:13 Chris Ryan? There's like four. Like, if you think about, how many times on this pod have you said, this person, it's like this, this, this and this, and then the wheels come off? You know, and it's like, it's not even the wheels coming off. It might just be like that their hot streak ended.
1:31:25 Bill Simmons? I think Meryl Streep might be the only actress where you could remove her top four. And she would still have one of the best three or four careers ever.
1:31:33 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's it works a little bit better with directors like it's a real confrontation with how many peaks you have because Spielberg has three distinct peaks like Scorsese has three distinct peaks. John Ford has three distinct peaks where they're like in different decades are doing different things that are amazing. Actors is tough because like most of them you get these like two or three iconic roles. One that's like the breakthrough, one where the whole industry is like you're the greatest of all time. And then one late period thing. So it's a little harder for actors.
1:32:01 Bill Simmons? Cruise you could wipe out four.
1:32:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I mean, like I was just.
1:32:04 Bill Simmons? And I think Denzel you could wipe out four.
1:32:05 Chris Ryan? I was thinking about Damon because of because of Odyssey and Odyssey is like the third time. He has been the biggest movie star in the world or whatever, you know, or led the biggest movie. And if you cut out Matt Damon's like top five movies, I think it would still be a good career, but it wouldn't be.
1:32:20 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:32:21 Chris Ryan? Wouldn't be.
1:32:22 Bill Simmons? I don't I saw an interview with him where he said he hadn't lost this much weight since high school or hadn't been at this weight since high school. Courage Under Fire, he was like a hundred and thirty pounds like.
1:32:33 Sean Fennessey? I got interviews with our friend Zach Baron. Yeah.
1:32:35 Bill Simmons? He just like he was like his health was in danger when he did that movie.
1:32:39 Sean Fennessey? Um, maybe he forgot.
1:32:42 Bill Simmons? Maybe he forgot. Random tangent. Elijah Wood, no.
1:32:46 Chris Ryan? No, that's Lord of the Rings.
1:32:48 Sean Fennessey? Agree.
1:32:49 Bill Simmons? Lord of the Rings is the one with the rings, right?
1:32:50 Chris Ryan? Yep.
1:32:51 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:32:53 Bill Simmons? Evil Kid movies?
1:32:54 Sean Fennessey? Well, maybe.
1:32:57 Bill Simmons? What?
1:32:57 Sean Fennessey? Maybe give it a.
1:32:58 Bill Simmons? Piping up over there?
1:32:59 Sean Fennessey? Maybe give it a spin.
1:33:01 Bill Simmons? Lord of the Rings?
1:33:01 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I just did an episode about Masters of the Universe and I was talking about my favorite fantasy movies of all time. And Fellowship is like far and away my favorite fantasy movie of all time. I I just feel like.
1:33:09 Chris Ryan? I think if you like Thrones, the way you do, there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to at least get.
1:33:14 Sean Fennessey? I know it's a quarter of yours to be like, I'm not into this shit, but I feel like you would like it.
1:33:17 Bill Simmons? Is that on 4K Blu-ray?
1:33:18 Chris Ryan? It sure is.
1:33:19 Sean Fennessey? Fuck, yeah.
1:33:20 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:33:20 Bill Simmons? Good one.
1:33:21 Sean Fennessey? Those three movies are incredible, honestly. I'm this is not me dorking out like I it's they're legitimately great movies.
1:33:28 Chris Ryan? I just watched them for the first time over Christmas and I they were great.
1:33:31 Bill Simmons? What did Heifetz think?
1:33:32 Chris Ryan? Has Heifetz seen Fellowship of the Ring, you think?
1:33:34 Sean Fennessey? He could tell you every line from Lord of the Rings. Really?
1:33:37 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:33:38 Bill Simmons? Heifetz. Wendy Cruz and Apex Mountain, probably Santa Claus. I'm guessing.
1:33:44 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:33:45 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:33:46 Bill Simmons? I'm just that was a huge movie.
1:33:48 Chris Ryan? Not it's definitely not David Morse, right?
1:33:50 Bill Simmons? No. Daniel Hugh Kelly, probably Cujo.
1:33:53 Sean Fennessey? What is David Morse's Apex Mountain?
1:33:55 Bill Simmons? Oh, come on, proof of life.
1:34:00 Bill Simmons? CR knows.
1:34:03 Sean Fennessey? Disturbia, one of my childhood favorites.
1:34:04 Bill Simmons? Oh, that's a good movie.
1:34:05 Sean Fennessey? That's how I know him.
1:34:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Disturbia is good. Uh, Maine, no. Choosing between two people to live.
1:34:11 Chris Ryan? What is the apex mountain for Maine, just out of curiosity?
1:34:17 Sean Fennessey? Probably it.
1:34:20 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I was thinking something in the Stephen King vortex.
1:34:22 Sean Fennessey? Prob- or Carrie.
1:34:25 Bill Simmons? Carrie.
1:34:26 Sean Fennessey? Right? One of those. I mean Shawshank.
1:34:29 Chris Ryan? Oh, there you go. It's gotta be Shawshank.
1:34:31 Sean Fennessey? Cause Shawshank's Maine, right?
1:34:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah, the prison is.
1:34:33 Bill Simmons? I thought it was filmed in Ohio, though.
1:34:36 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but it's.
1:34:36 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, but it's set in Maine.
1:34:38 Bill Simmons? Shawshank is a movie location in Maine. Yeah, that's the answer. Or the Portland Celtics winning the G League title last year.
1:34:43 Chris Ryan? Nice one.
1:34:44 Bill Simmons? Be one or the other.
1:34:44 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I didn't know that.
1:34:45 Sean Fennessey? In the bedroom?
1:34:48 Chris Ryan? Is that Todd Fielder, right?
1:34:50 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. What about Poison Ivy?
1:34:52 Chris Ryan? It's in Maine?
1:34:53 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. I did a lot of Maine research for this.
1:34:55 Chris Ryan? Does Stand by Me, is it Oregon or Maine? I can't remember, cause it's set in Maine. They shot it in Oregon, right?
1:34:59 Sean Fennessey? What about Lake Placid?
1:35:01 Chris Ryan? Upstate New York.
1:35:02 Sean Fennessey? No, Maine.
1:35:04 Chris Ryan? Lake Placid is in Maine?
1:35:05 Sean Fennessey? The movie Lake Placid is set in Maine.
1:35:07 Chris Ryan? The crocodile movie. Oh, I thought you were like Miracle on Ice.
1:35:09 Bill Simmons? Mine's Lake Placid. Is In the Bedroom a rewatchable?
1:35:13 Sean Fennessey? To me it is. Deeply sad movie.
1:35:15 Bill Simmons? That movie's fucking awesome.
1:35:17 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's a great movie.
1:35:18 Chris Ryan? Wait, we're just the one with Jackie Earl Haley as the kid toucher?
1:35:21 Bill Simmons? That's a little.
1:35:21 Chris Ryan? Little children, okay.
1:35:23 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:35:24 Bill Simmons? Uh, Cruise or Hanks?
1:35:27 Bill Simmons? Cruise or Hanks?
1:35:29 Chris Ryan? Uh, I mean, the roles are pretty slim.
1:35:32 Bill Simmons? This is a Hanks movie as the dad, I think.
1:35:35 Sean Fennessey? It is.
1:35:36 Bill Simmons? Unless Cruise wants to play young and be Henry.
1:35:39 Chris Ryan? So like Taps era Cruise?
1:35:41 Sean Fennessey? I literally have young Cruise as Henry here.
1:35:43 Bill Simmons? Young Cruise. Five years earlier, Cruise hasn't even decided to start acting yet, but just realizes.
1:35:50 Chris Ryan? Wouldn't it have to be like 15 years earlier to really get great?
1:35:53 Bill Simmons? No, he's playing young. He's 22.
1:35:55 Sean Fennessey? It's Cruise and the Outsiders.
1:35:56 Bill Simmons? He's committed to it. He's.
1:35:57 Sean Fennessey? Or an endless love.
1:35:58 Bill Simmons? I've been studying 10 year olds and how their bodies move. I've been learning how to un-throw stuff, so my throw emotion's bad.
1:36:06 Chris Ryan? Video interview with him talking about how like at one point in his career, he was shooting Cocktail and prepping both Rain Man and Board on the Fourth of July and was rewriting all of them. And I was like, whoever wrote those movies is probably like, what the fuck?
1:36:21 Sean Fennessey? Do you, do you guys feel ready for six straight months of Cruise mania with Digger?
1:36:26 Chris Ryan? Are you kidding? When, when am I not?
1:36:28 Bill Simmons? Not ready for that.
1:36:29 Sean Fennessey? But this is gonna be a whole new level.
1:36:30 Chris Ryan? Do you think he's going out on the road with it?
1:36:32 Sean Fennessey? I think he has to, because it's gonna be, he's gonna be trying to get, win an Oscar.
1:36:35 Speaker 04 There's like a 2% chance he does the rewatchables.
1:36:38 Sean Fennessey? I just like-
1:36:39 Bill Simmons? 2%? After Spielberg, I'm ready, I'm got the seat for him.
1:36:42 Chris Ryan? So that would be Cruise, Mahoney, Hyphens, Richelieu.
1:36:47 Bill Simmons? That's when we'll have to have four seats.
1:36:50 Sean Fennessey? I, I don't know if I could, I don't know if I could hold it together for that one. That, that would, that would be a lot.
1:36:57 Chris Ryan? You think Cruise would like Zayn Blom?
1:37:00 Chris Ryan? Tall man. From the couch to another couch.
1:37:07 Chris Ryan? And here we are. The superhero. The artist.
1:37:12 Bill Simmons? What movie would you want to do with Cruise?
1:37:15 Sean Fennessey? Um, probably Proof of Life.
1:37:19 Sean Fennessey? Glad to get to be on that one. I got, would it be one of his movies or something else?
1:37:23 Speaker 04 I don't know. I don't think it can be one of his.
1:37:24 Chris Ryan? It's so obvious, it's the re-cruising.
1:37:33 Bill Simmons? Do the re-cruising with Cruise?
1:37:34 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:37:34 Sean Fennessey? I'm trying to think of what's in a movie that he talks about all the time that he loves. Like, he's talked about The Great Escape a bit in the past, how much he loves that. What, what's a movie that is, is essential to, I mean, he's talked a bunch about these, uh, Inari Two movies that he loves so much. He keeps talking about Amoris Peros now. I don't think we'd be doing that on the rewatchables anytime soon.
1:37:53 Chris Ryan? I'd love to.
1:37:54 Bill Simmons? It says that his favorite movie is Singing in the Rain.
1:37:59 Speaker 04 That would be incredible.
1:38:01 Sean Fennessey? Wow.
1:38:01 Chris Ryan? Wow.
1:38:04 Bill Simmons? There's an article, "You Won't Trick Tom Cruise Into Naming His Four Favorite Films."
1:38:09 Chris Ryan? No, because he was talking, you know what he loves?
1:38:10 Bill Simmons? He's a cinema diplomat.
1:38:12 Chris Ryan? Him, him and McCrory love the, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. And the Once Upon a Time in the West, the Leon Wester.
1:38:18 Sean Fennessey? Sick.
1:38:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:38:19 Bill Simmons? Apparently he won't do that. What's the, who does that Letterboxd?
1:38:22 Chris Ryan? They like give us their top four and he's like-
1:38:23 Bill Simmons? Tom Cruise is like, "I can't, I love all movies."
1:38:25 Chris Ryan? It depends on what I'm doing. Am I just watching one scene to be inspired, or am I hanging out on a Sunday afternoon?
1:38:31 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, yeah. He, I don't know, he sees a lot of movies. He's still, is like, that's his whole thing. He's like, "I'm at, I'm at the cinema, here to see The Odyssey." You know, a lot of selfies of Holden, like, happily eating popcorn. He loves popcorn.
1:38:44 Bill Simmons? Cruise. I don't know if we could do Cruise.
1:38:47 Sean Fennessey? I feel like it's just, if you have.
1:38:48 Bill Simmons? Spielberg's like ultimately like a movie fan like us. Cruise is like, I don't know how you would have a two hour conversation with Cruise.
1:38:54 Chris Ryan? It would be fucking incredible.
1:38:55 Sean Fennessey? But, but what you want to do is just ask him questions for two hours. You don't want to be like, what's your favorite scene from this movie?
1:39:01 Chris Ryan? Yeah, he matches like we're doing Lethal Weapon 2 with Cruise. They killed a South African.
1:39:08 Sean Fennessey? He's like, Chris, Chris, do it, do it. Diplomatic immunity.
1:39:13 Bill Simmons? Uh, I'm gonna add in here the Dennis Peck relationship test for could Dennis have broken up the main relationship?
1:39:19 Chris Ryan? Hmm.
1:39:19 Bill Simmons? Think Dennis could easily have gotten in.
1:39:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah, for sure.
1:39:23 Bill Simmons? Two seconds.
1:39:23 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:39:24 Bill Simmons? I love short haircuts.
1:39:28 Chris Ryan? Major wife come.
1:39:30 Bill Simmons? You're grieving. You need to let some of that grief out.
1:39:35 Chris Ryan? Oh my god.
1:39:38 Bill Simmons? The Ed Norton Reverse Dunk Award for did this movie need a random sports scene?
1:39:42 Chris Ryan? I mean, it has one.
1:39:43 Bill Simmons? It has the soccer, but did it need a scene with Henry in it? We talked about hockey. Is there a touch football scene where he starts to get a little?
1:39:50 Chris Ryan? Maybe he's like a middle linebacker and he drops a kid.
1:39:53 Bill Simmons? Like he takes, he takes Connie over the middle, just like Dexter.
1:39:56 Chris Ryan? It's like, who invited fucking Ronnie La?
1:39:59 Bill Simmons? Another touch football game. All right, here we go. Pickin' Nits. God, I have so many. Sean, you want to start us off?
1:40:06 Sean Fennessey? What the hell is David Morse's character doing in this movie? What, in what universe, after your wife dies and a boy has lost his mother, are you dropping him off somewhere and not spending time with him?
1:40:16 Chris Ryan? And going to Japan for two weeks.
1:40:17 Sean Fennessey? What in the fuck? If this, Eileen and I watched this movie together last night and I was like, honey, if you die, I'm not dropping Alice off with someone. There's just no, I'd be like, Bill, I gotta take a couple of weeks off from the pods, man. I think you'll understand. Like, this is crazy that this is the premise of the movie.
1:40:31 Bill Simmons? With my wife, we were just like, how is this?
1:40:34 Chris Ryan? I think the fucked up thing is like, there's a bit of it where it's just like, is he kind of like, I need to like, get some me time, you know?
1:40:40 Sean Fennessey? Could be.
1:40:41 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:40:41 Sean Fennessey? Could be.
1:40:42 Chris Ryan? But it's not explained in the movie.
1:40:43 Bill Simmons? What do you have for biggest then pick?
1:40:45 Chris Ryan? Uh, so when Mark breaks away, where he jumps out the window at the end to get to the cliffside, Davenport and Wallace are just like, oh, Mark, you got away from us. Then they just stop. They don't pursue. They don't like.
1:40:58 Bill Simmons? I had that as well. Isn't, why doesn't the dad show up at any point over the next five minutes? Where is he?
1:41:03 Chris Ryan? And then she comes back from the cliff and is just like, yeah, uh, you know, I had to choose between Mark and Henry and I dropped our son. So now you're down two. That's crazy.
1:41:14 Sean Fennessey? How did, how did Wendy Cruisen explain to the cops how Henry died?
1:41:18 Chris Ryan? Right.
1:41:19 Sean Fennessey? What did she say?
1:41:20 Chris Ryan? Isn't that like criminal negligence anyway?
1:41:22 Sean Fennessey? Did she say like, my son tried to kill me, so I killed him? Like, what did she, how did she explain?
1:41:26 Bill Simmons? No, I, I think her and Mark get their stories straight for a split second.
1:41:30 Chris Ryan? He slipped out of my hand. I was trying to save him.
1:41:31 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's true.
1:41:32 Sean Fennessey? The boys were playing on the cliff. I found them.
1:41:34 Bill Simmons? They fell off. I was trying to hold them and obviously I wouldn't have wanted to kill my son, Henry.
1:41:40 Chris Ryan? The first and last shots of the movie are Mark standing on like a sand dune in the middle of like a national park somewhere in Arizona with no one else around him.
1:41:47 Speaker 04 Makes no sense.
1:41:48 Chris Ryan? Like, what's he doing?
1:41:49 Bill Simmons? It's like the start of Dune 3.
1:41:52 Chris Ryan? He's calling the sand worms.
1:41:55 Speaker 04 He's like doing the dance.
1:41:57 Sean Fennessey? What about the investigation into Richard's death, the little boy? What happened there?
1:42:01 Chris Ryan? Just, he drowned in six inches of water.
1:42:06 Bill Simmons? I have a
1:42:07 Chris Ryan? I just think that there would just be, we're having a fucking emergency meeting. Richard's dead. The daughter got thrown under a sheet of ice. We've got new kid here who's just causing all, like, we need to just shut it down. We're not going to dinner. We're not just using this old lady psychiatrist. I need like a bodyguard in here. Everybody is on like, is, is grounded. We're gonna figure this out.
1:42:33 Bill Simmons? Mr. Highway is definitely some sort of investigation.
1:42:36 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:42:36 Bill Simmons? It's like, first of all, very close to their house. There's not like a ton of people that live around there. The news reporter will say, uh, the driver reports seeing two kids pushing something off a thing.
1:42:48 Sean Fennessey? That's right.
1:42:48 Bill Simmons? So that's coming up. Um, so these two guys are brothers, but their families have never hung out? Like their cousins have never met? Ten year olds, like that, not one family vacation, nothing?
1:42:59 Chris Ryan? David Morse is always off to Japan.
1:43:01 Sean Fennessey? Does he know anybody who lives in Arizona who he could drop his son off with? Like, what is it, what is going on?
1:43:05 Chris Ryan? It's also the winter. Wasn't he in school?
1:43:08 Sean Fennessey? They, they don't address that.
1:43:09 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:43:10 Speaker 04 No, they said it's Christmas break.
1:43:12 Chris Ryan? Oh, that's right.
1:43:12 Sean Fennessey? So the movie only takes place in over a two week span?
1:43:14 Speaker 04 There's also no Chris, there's no Christmas decorations in the house. Right? There's not a Christmas tree.
1:43:18 Sean Fennessey? There is a tree.
1:43:19 Speaker 04 Oh, is there?
1:43:19 Sean Fennessey? There is a tree, yeah.
1:43:20 Bill Simmons? It's very, it's, this is not a holiday movie. It's even less of a holiday movie than Die Hard.
1:43:24 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:43:24 Bill Simmons? Um. At one point, the dad says, what a haul, 11 states in three days. Where are you coming from?
1:43:31 Chris Ryan? From Arizona.
1:43:32 Bill Simmons? Isn't that like 38 states?
1:43:34 Chris Ryan? You can actually do the drive and it's like six states, I think. Like it's the quickest route.
1:43:40 Sean Fennessey? With a time machine?
1:43:41 Chris Ryan? No, no, I mean, like, I don't know how long it takes for him to drive it, but it's like, just not that many, less states than you'd think.
1:43:47 Bill Simmons? They have date night. Little Richard has died in six inches of bathtub water and their son's a serial killer and they're like, no babysitter.
1:43:56 Speaker 04 It bothered me that they were eating soup while talking about going out to dinner.
1:44:00 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:44:01 Speaker 04 I was like, what are you, you're having?
1:44:01 Chris Ryan? Maybe they don't trust the restaurants, probably not a lot of them.
1:44:04 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:44:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:44:05 Bill Simmons? Had some questions about the safety situation at the skating pond?
1:44:09 Chris Ryan? It's just roped off.
1:44:10 Bill Simmons? Just to, just to rope off, but anybody could have.
1:44:13 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:44:13 Bill Simmons? Hurdled toward there?
1:44:14 Sean Fennessey? I had that in most 1993 thing about this movie too, where I was just like, yeah, you just like go skating in an insanely dangerous place.
1:44:22 Chris Ryan? I mean, that is like.
1:44:23 Sean Fennessey? The local skate pond.
1:44:24 Chris Ryan? Every 80s and early 90s water park or, or, you know, action park kind of place where you're just like, we probably should not be here.
1:44:31 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:44:32 Bill Simmons? And the guys somehow don't fall on the ice as they're trying to save Connie?
1:44:35 Sean Fennessey? That was weird too.
1:44:36 Bill Simmons? I didn't understand any part of this skating scene.
1:44:38 Sean Fennessey? Why do they not go to the part where she fell in to fish her out? They only go to the part where the ice is more solid and they have to ax it out though.
1:44:44 Chris Ryan? It's just another, like, just like Wallace and Wendy Cruze never have a conversation where they're like, hey, have you ever been in a, in Henry's treehouse?
1:44:52 Speaker 04 Or the shed?
1:44:53 Bill Simmons? The shed is the bigger one.
1:44:55 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:44:55 Speaker 04 She enters the shed, sees a crossbow, keeps walking, finds a rubber duck, that's the problem.
1:45:01 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:45:02 Speaker 04 Doesn't say a word. What is this military grade crossbow doing here?
1:45:05 Chris Ryan? She probably thinks it's Wallace's to like ward off wild animals or something.
1:45:08 Sean Fennessey? We don't get any report on the dead dog. Like, didn't somebody in the neighborhood is like, hey, somebody shot and killed my dog?
1:45:13 Chris Ryan? Well, he doesn't know it's in the well.
1:45:14 Sean Fennessey? That's right.
1:45:15 Bill Simmons? Oh, true. My dog's missing. This is the big one. This made my wife really upset. So Connie almost dies. Is in the hospital. We assume still in the hospital in the end of the movie. Both parents are home.
1:45:29 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:45:30 Bill Simmons? Just, nobody's at the hospital? Connie's just lying in bed, like with the fucking remote control? She's like seven. Isn't one of the parents there twenty-four seven?
1:45:38 Chris Ryan? One of my favorite tropes in movies is when, like, somebody is like, it's okay, you should go home and get some rest. It's like, my child, or like, my wife is like...
1:45:46 Bill Simmons? Nobody's leaving the hospital.
1:45:48 Chris Ryan? Nobody's going home to get some rest.
1:45:49 Bill Simmons? If Alice almost, if that almost happened to Alice.
1:45:52 Sean Fennessey? I would never leave the hospital.
1:45:54 Bill Simmons? Be like, yeah, let's go home and let's get a bite to eat.
1:45:57 Chris Ryan? We got tons more reservations.
1:45:59 Bill Simmons? They love to do this in movies, though.
1:46:01 Sean Fennessey? Done smart.
1:46:03 Chris Ryan? I like when Henry leaves the hospital room and he goes, let her know I was here. Imagine just you in the hospital and you get like a resi notification. It's like, no, you're in.
1:46:12 Sean Fennessey? A 7pm is opened up.
1:46:15 Chris Ryan? You know what? We, we're not doctors. What can we do for her?
1:46:19 Sean Fennessey? No. That, that, that's why at the beginning of the pod, I was like, this movie is trash. Like, it is really trashy.
1:46:25 Bill Simmons? I love it.
1:46:26 Sean Fennessey? But, because once you start getting into this stuff, it's so poorly constructed. However, it's very fun and entertaining.
1:46:32 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:46:32 Bill Simmons? That's why we love From Helmut.
1:46:33 Chris Ryan? You gotta get the parents out of the house. I get it. Like, you can't have them always be there because Henry needs room to cook.
1:46:39 Bill Simmons? I also love when, uh, something like that happens to a character. And they run to the hospital and the guy says immediately, they said she's gonna be fine.
1:46:48 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:46:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:46:48 Bill Simmons? It's like.
1:46:50 Bill Simmons? She was underwater for about two minutes there. Let's, let's give it a week.
1:46:54 Chris Ryan? I wouldn't necessarily...
1:46:55 Bill Simmons? See if she remembers her name two days from now.
1:46:56 Chris Ryan? She's not going to Caltech, but yeah, she'll be fine.
1:46:59 Sean Fennessey? I like that you're really hooked on, like, she definitely has brain damage.
1:47:04 Bill Simmons? She's like.
1:47:10 Bill Simmons? She's fine.
1:47:12 Sean Fennessey? No, Quinn's gonna be fine, you know, just a couple of bite marks, no worries. He'll be, he'll be back.
1:47:16 Bill Simmons? Three minutes without oxygen, she'll be fine. Also, no witnesses for Henry just whipping her toward the dangerous.
1:47:23 Sean Fennessey? Like a hundred people.
1:47:24 Bill Simmons? Hundred and fifty-eight people there.
1:47:25 Chris Ryan? But even if that would, what would have happened, would have just been like, yeah, Henry had her and let go of her, you know, and he could just be like, it was an accident, but.
1:47:34 Bill Simmons? Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast are untouchable. I think this is a pretty good prestige TV, Apple, eight episodes that I hope they don't do.
1:47:42 Sean Fennessey? It is, but like by the third episode, you'd be like, somebody's gotta be like, what's going on with this kid? He keeps murdering people?
1:47:47 Chris Ryan? Right.
1:47:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:47:48 Chris Ryan? We wouldn't have any of the picking nits because they would just spend eight hours like answering all the questions and stuff like that.
1:47:53 Bill Simmons? Some backstories with the marriage, some.
1:47:56 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Why haven't Wallace and David Morse talked?
1:47:58 Sean Fennessey? But this movie is also the length of one episode of prestige television, so.
1:48:02 Bill Simmons? True.
1:48:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:48:03 Bill Simmons? You, the Euphoria season finale was fifteen minutes longer. Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Florist, Zane Low, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Nichols, or someone else?
1:48:11 Chris Ryan? Henry, man, here you are, standing on the ledge. You've drowned, Richard, you've killed the neighborhood dog, nearly did Connie on a frozen pond. The body count grows, but what's next for you, man? After building your nail gun and terrorizing your immediate family, what stirs you?
1:48:33 Sean Fennessey? Why is, why is Zane talking to Henry?
1:48:36 Bill Simmons? With Henry?
1:48:37 Sean Fennessey? Is Henry in studio?
1:48:38 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:48:39 Sean Fennessey? Or Zane flying to Maine?
1:48:40 Chris Ryan? No, Henry is in the, in the Beach One studio and Zane is standing at the console.
1:48:47 Bill Simmons? No, Zane's flying to Maine for this.
1:48:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it's true.
1:48:49 Bill Simmons? There's no question.
1:48:49 Chris Ryan? As the winds, you know, the waves lapping against this shoreline, Henry.
1:48:57 Sean Fennessey? On location, Zane.
1:48:59 Bill Simmons? Just want to ask her who gets it.
1:49:00 Chris Ryan? McCall, McCallie.
1:49:01 Bill Simmons? Culkin.
1:49:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:49:03 Bill Simmons? Zouattin Airward, what happened the next day? I wrote down, honey, bad news, I dropped Henry to his death, we lost another one.
1:49:11 Sean Fennessey? I, bro, Mark going back to Arizona and leaving that family destroyed in Maine is hilarious.
1:49:15 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and it's just like.
1:49:17 Bill Simmons? See you guys later.
1:49:17 Chris Ryan? Wendy Carson, Wallace, and a fucking kid with scrambled eggs for brains.
1:49:24 Chris Ryan? And he's like, I'm out. I got a date in the desert with myself, just talking all over.
1:49:32 Sean Fennessey? No one's watching him and he's like standing on the. Mountaintop in Arizona.
1:49:36 Bill Simmons? The bad news.
1:49:37 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:49:37 Bill Simmons? Connie has to repeat.
1:49:38 Chris Ryan? Bernstein's like, da na na na. What the fuck is happening?
1:49:46 Sean Fennessey? Great movie.
1:49:47 Bill Simmons? Bad news, Connie has to repeat the fourth grade again.
1:49:52 Bill Simmons? Third time, hopefully be a charm.
1:49:54 Chris Ryan? Yeah, Connie, she lived through the lake, but she had to eat through a straw for the next five years.
1:50:00 Bill Simmons? Probably an answer with questions. Was Henry's mom a murderer?
1:50:03 Chris Ryan? Uh, it's a good, good one, well.
1:50:06 Bill Simmons? Could that have been an involuntary manslaughter charge?
1:50:11 Sean Fennessey? I think it's become clear that the Rock Harbor Police Department is not elite in investigating these issues.
1:50:15 Bill Simmons? It's a good point.
1:50:16 Sean Fennessey? So I feel like she's probably getting away with it.
1:50:18 Chris Ryan? I got two for you.
1:50:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:50:19 Chris Ryan? Did Mark's dad nail the Tokyo deal or what?
1:50:22 Sean Fennessey? Great one.
1:50:24 Bill Simmons? In two weeks.
1:50:25 Chris Ryan? Was that keeping him up at night or was he was just like, he was just like, he got it. He's bringing Hyundai's to Arizona or whatever. And then, uh, what's Mark's dad's relationship with his brother like after this? So the whole dropping Mark off thing didn't really work out great for your family.
1:50:43 Bill Simmons? Turned out to be a different kind of drop off.
1:50:45 Sean Fennessey? If they were estranged before, they're even more estranged now.
1:50:47 Chris Ryan? You think it's just like, we're just never gonna talk again.
1:50:50 Sean Fennessey? Feels like it. Feels like it. I, I think the lingering question is, so Henry is just evil. Like, is he evil or is he a sociopath?
1:51:00 Bill Simmons? Well, the mom can say like, Henry did tell me he murdered Richard.
1:51:05 Chris Ryan? Yes, yes.
1:51:06 Bill Simmons? I do think the 86 minute movie is missing a scene in the first 40 minutes. When she's in Richard's room or something like, you need to see the light clicking.
1:51:16 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:51:17 Bill Simmons? That she deep down thinks Henry did this.
1:51:19 Chris Ryan? This has never sat right with me. I don't get it.
1:51:21 Bill Simmons? And I don't think they ever really accomplish that.
1:51:23 Chris Ryan? There's that one moment where she's like.
1:51:24 Bill Simmons? Cause I think the mom would know.
1:51:25 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Then there's also like, I do like the fact that they've, they come back to it a couple of times. That Mark thinks she's the reincarnation of his mother.
1:51:36 Sean Fennessey? Yes, I love that idea.
1:51:37 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:51:37 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, and that's how he taunts Henry a little bit by saying like.
1:51:40 Chris Ryan? He's like, my mom's alive, she's my mom, yeah.
1:51:43 Speaker 04 You could make the case that Mark is the best thing that ever happened to that family. Because if Mark doesn't go to Maine, Connie dies.
1:51:51 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:51:51 Speaker 04 And maybe the mom dies.
1:51:52 Chris Ryan? Well, we don't know whether Mark's introduction into the family accelerates Henry's shit.
1:51:57 Speaker 04 He already killed Richard.
1:51:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but maybe he was like, now that I got him out of the way, I'm good. You know, like, I'm the only son, we can focus on my hockey career.
1:52:05 Speaker 04 I got my yayas out, we're good.
1:52:07 Bill Simmons? Henry, Henry was like Howie Roseman, though. He was preparing for this moment for years.
1:52:12 Sean Fennessey? That's right.
1:52:12 Bill Simmons? He'd been building Mr. Highway, he'd been building the nail gun.
1:52:16 Sean Fennessey? True.
1:52:16 Bill Simmons? He was just ready.
1:52:17 Chris Ryan? Sure.
1:52:17 Bill Simmons? He was ready for this.
1:52:20 Bill Simmons? 2028 draft.
1:52:21 Sean Fennessey? I see you're very concerned about this AJ Brown trade.
1:52:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah, definitely concerned. What was your other in答问题?
1:52:26 Chris Ryan? I did the.
1:52:26 Bill Simmons? You did both, okay.
1:52:27 Chris Ryan? Did Mark's deal in Tokyo go through and what's Mark's relation, Mark's dad's relationship with his brother?
1:52:33 Bill Simmons? The memorabilia you'd most want or not want from this movie?
1:52:36 Chris Ryan? I think you gotta get Mr. Highway sitting with us here.
1:52:38 Bill Simmons? So if Mr. Highway was here right now, it'd be pretty fucking funny.
1:52:41 Chris Ryan? It's gotta be you, Spielberg, Anthony DeBundo, Mr. Highway.
1:52:48 Chris Ryan? Jaws 2 rewatchables.
1:52:52 Sean Fennessey? I love that. He's the AJ Hawk for the rewatchables. He just sits there? That's great.
1:52:58 Sean Fennessey? Just have Mr. Highway cam, it's just on him all the time.
1:53:01 Chris Ryan? What is it? Mr. Highway, Zaylo Fergie? Take it.
1:53:06 Bill Simmons? Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi, best, worst life lesson?
1:53:10 Chris Ryan? Get a sitter.
1:53:10 Bill Simmons? Once you realize you can do anything, you're free.
1:53:14 Bill Simmons? But Henry's telling us.
1:53:15 Sean Fennessey? Pretty true to some extent.
1:53:17 Chris Ryan? I would say just pay for the sitter.
1:53:22 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:53:23 Bill Simmons? Don't let, don't let your son, who may have already killed one of your other sons, take your daughter ice skating. Maybe is a good one.
1:53:29 Sean Fennessey? Good note.
1:53:30 Bill Simmons? Best double feature choice. I have Mikey. I would watch Mikey first, then Good Son.
1:53:35 Sean Fennessey? So there's a, um, there is like kind of prevailing theory around Home Alone that, you know, Kevin is really the villain of the movie.
1:53:43 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:53:43 Sean Fennessey? He is like the demon of the film. And so just pairing those two movies together is pretty funny, I think.
1:53:48 Chris Ryan? I'd probably go Bad Seed, just because it pulls so much for it.
1:53:51 Bill Simmons? And Culkin wins the movie? There's a decent Elijah Wood case. But I think it's Culkin.
1:53:55 Chris Ryan? I think it's, it's, it's just. For the limited amount of like credits that Macaulay Culkin gets, this is such a crazy outlier. And it's, it's, I think he wins it.
1:54:05 Sean Fennessey? But because of that, I think the winner is Kit Culkin.
1:54:08 Chris Ryan? Jesus, Sean.
1:54:10 Sean Fennessey? As fucked up as that is, I think he like, kind of bull charged his way into being the shadow producer of the whole thing. Forced his son into the project, forced his daughter into the project. And the movie was a big hit.
1:54:22 Chris Ryan? Should we add a new category is how would Kit Culkin have reshaped this movie?
1:54:26 Sean Fennessey? He's like the David O. Selsnick of the modern era.
1:54:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Well, it's time. Craig had never seen this movie or knew what it was.
1:54:34 Speaker 04 Um, both kids were fantastic. I had very little fun watching this movie until the final battle. I reveled in Henry's death.
1:54:43 Speaker 04 You're spending 90 minutes just in Final Destination for children? And this was a blast. And now I feel like going back, it'd be great. But kind of first watch, you're like, this is very little room to breathe. Every scene is like, will a child die for 90 minutes?
1:54:56 Bill Simmons? Yes.
1:54:58 Speaker 04 But now, like when you just don't take it as seriously and kind of, you know, live outside the movie.
1:55:02 Chris Ryan? It's the key to from Hell Month. Is you have to.
1:55:05 Speaker 04 You have to view it through a different lens. There's just less pulp in this movie than like Single White Female or Hand That Rocks The Cradle. This one is pretty much like, every scene is like, is a kid gonna fall down a well?
1:55:16 Bill Simmons? It's a harrowing movie.
1:55:17 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it is. It is.
1:55:19 Chris Ryan? It's, it's really violent.
1:55:20 Bill Simmons? You get it now, though.
1:55:21 Speaker 04 Oh, for sure. You could watch it a second time and have a blast.
1:55:23 Bill Simmons? The unintentional comedy of this movie is off the charts.
1:55:26 Sean Fennessey? That's what it is. It's just fun to talk about. Cause it's so ridiculous.
1:55:29 Speaker 04 It's just remarkable that a movie can have so many obvious picking nits. In 1993. And they're just like, oh, who cares? Like, I feel like you can't do that now. If you deliver the script, I mean, maybe for a movie that's just like, goes straight to streaming or something. But for a movie that is going in theaters with a big star, there's like 15 legitimate ridiculous picking nits. And this, any producer would be like, well, that, that doesn't make any fucking sense.
1:55:51 Chris Ryan? I think that there's just as many picking nits now, but like so much of that happens either in like a John Wick style movie or a superhero movie that you're like, oh yeah, I guess they went back in time to like fix this.
1:56:00 Speaker 04 Sure.
1:56:01 Chris Ryan? Flux capacitor thing or whatever. And it's like, this is actually like, no, a cop would have seen this by now. Yeah.
1:56:06 Sean Fennessey? Part of the reason why I keep. Pointing back to the incredible level of craft is because there's like, you know, 100 people worked on this movie. None of them raised any of the notes about picking it, or if they did, Kit Culkin like overwhelmed them. But then there's like nine artisans who are among the greatest craftspeople of their era. And they're like, I'm gonna spend 38 days of my professional life making this very stupid, but ultimately very well made movie.
1:56:31 Speaker 04 And no one was like, shouldn't Wallace be chasing Mark? It's like, and they're like, ah, whatever.
1:56:36 Chris Ryan? Funny thing is, that's like one shot of like Wallace like running in the background.
1:56:40 Speaker 04 He should have like fallen in the well or something. He just doesn't chase.
1:56:44 Bill Simmons? We didn't mention there was a cemetery too near them.
1:56:47 Sean Fennessey? Oh, yeah.
1:56:47 Bill Simmons? It really was like an all time kid death trap.
1:56:50 Speaker 04 The final battle is elite. Like the way that shot, the camera goes up over them as they're hanging. It's pretty nuts.
1:56:57 Bill Simmons? It's a great scene.
1:56:58 Sean Fennessey? Ruben cooking.
1:56:58 Bill Simmons? The good son from Hell Month is just cooking.
1:57:01 Sean Fennessey? Is this it? Is this the last one?
1:57:02 Bill Simmons? No, we're gonna keep going. We might even go through, through the first part of July.
1:57:06 Sean Fennessey? Wow. Well, so do you not consider 2001 a part of this, this week?
1:57:11 Bill Simmons? I think it spiritually is because it's computer from hell.
1:57:13 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:57:14 Bill Simmons? And it was the beginning of June, but it's also one of the greatest movies of all time.
1:57:18 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:57:18 Bill Simmons? Little insulting to put it in a thing with The Good Son.
1:57:21 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.
1:57:23 Bill Simmons? But at the same time, we could sneak it in. Sean Fantasy, Chris Ryan, thank you.
1:57:27 Chris Ryan? Thank you.
1:57:27 Bill Simmons? Thanks to Craig and Chris as well and Eduardo. Back with From Hell Month next week.
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