‘All the Right Moves’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

Bill and Kyle have everything at stake; they can’t afford to lose, they’ve got to make all the right moves. The guys head to western Pennsylvania to crush tape of Tom Cruise in the 1983 sports drama ‘All the Right Moves’, also starring Lea Thompson and Craig T. Nelson. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Matt Pevic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables is brought to by The Ringer Podcast Network, where Kyle Brandt pops on from time to time to do movies we love. We're gonna explain the story behind this movie, but Kyle, they, they promised us we'd have a chance. That's all we're hoping for. A lucky break is all we're due. We can't wait anymore. And if we make all the right moves.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  If we make all the right moves.

• 0:32Bill Simmons?

  We can show them.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Sing it, Simbo.

• 0:34Bill Simmons?

  Oh, man. So good. All the Right Moves is next.

• 0:37Speaker 02

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• 1:08Speaker 03

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• 1:51Bill Simmons?

  All right, so we have this process with The Rewatchables, because you have like 50 to 60 movies that you absolutely love. And then we've probably done half of them at this point. And you sent me a list, and it was broken down by decades. And you're usually pretty tied into that list. And if I throw a curveball movie at you, and you're like, I don't know it, I'm not sure. So I floated this one at you, and you're like, I don't know it. It's like, all right. Nine months pass. Cruise is back in the news with Digger. Cruise, just in general. We've, this, this will be the 19th Cruise movie we've done. And I was like, you know what? I can't accept that you don't know this movie. I'm forcing you to at least watch this movie, give it a whirl. And I gave you the synopsis, so you're like, you're right. I should check this out.

• 2:36Bill Simmons?

  How'd it go?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Bill, it's like when you, you have like a really good friend, and you have another friend, and you don't know why those two people aren't friends. And you're like, I'm telling you, he's a good hang. Like, you'll like, just give him a chance. And I hung out with All the Right Moves all week. And it's like, we're not friends, we're brothers. Like, I didn't even know I had a brother, Bill, but you introduced him to me. I got my letter jacket on. I went in the closet and found it in solidarity with the Empire Bulldog.

• 3:03Bill Simmons?

  It looks great.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  It's, I'm so excited. And Bill, like, I don't want you to get rattled or anything, but at some point during this pod, I'll try to give you a warning. I'm gonna try to lift up this desk with my boner. So just get ready for Vinnie Salvucci, who's my guy. I feel like I've known Vinnie my whole life. And I'm so excited.

• 3:19Bill Simmons?

  So this movie came out in 1983, and it's a, it's a 90-minute high school football movie, set in coal miner land, Pennsylvania, starring a young Tom Cruise. And I've seen it a million times, and I couldn't accept that you didn't watch it. It's got, it, it checks a lot of boxes for me. We're in a blue collar world. Coal mines, pubs with pool tables, and guys with bad mustaches, just getting mad at people. Just people repeatedly saying, this is my way out. We're gonna get out of here. So we have that lingering over everything. And then the football is really good. And I really feel like this movie paved the way for some other things that have happened over the last 40-plus years.

• 4:02Bill Simmons?

  Most specifically, Friday Night Lights, which came from a book. But I think the, the prototype for Friday Night Lights, you can feel in this movie, right?

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. Friday Night Lights is the Texas version. This is the Western Pennsylvania version. And I would set the table like this. I have a story from this week that I think is really cool. I think this movie is incredibly respected and credible. I think it's real. Just this week, like, three days ago, Bill, I'm at work, I'm on a TV set, and Bill Cower was there.

• 4:31Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Bill Cower, who's a great guy, who I love talking to, Steelers icon, Hall of Famer. And I'm talking to Bill during commercials, just randomly about like Pittsburgh stuff. He's like, yeah, I'm going there next week. I'm doing a thing with Jerome Bettis. And I took a shot, and I didn't know if he was a movie guy. I go, Bill, do you know All the Right Moves? And his face changed completely. He goes, oh, yeah. And I go, you like that movie? He goes, I love it. And I go, really? You like, he goes, I go, why? He goes, because that's real. That is Western Pennsylvania. That's high school football. That's the steel mills. That's how those people are. That is a great movie. And I was like, oh, fuck, I can't wait to do this podcast. Like, he baptized that movie. Bill Cower loves this movie.

• 5:15Bill Simmons?

  This is something we talk about with The Rewatchables a lot when we do movies from the 70s and 80s, really, specifically, where these movies, the people feel so real. And it feels like they go into these areas that, you know, I'm living in the Northeast. I don't know what it's like to live outside of Pittsburgh and have my whole family work in mines and stuff. And in 90 minutes, I feel like I got it.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  I know.

• 5:40Bill Simmons?

  It was like, oh, yeah, okay. You're on this football team. You might, there might be six scholarship kids that come out of here. All of them want one. All of them would literally put their life on the line to win this one game against Walnut High. And if it doesn't work out, they're probably heading toward those mines. And by the way, the mines are laying everybody off and all these different work sites and stuff. The town's like going in the wrong direction. And this movie hits all of it. It's like basically the tail end of the Industrial Revolution. But it's also like, here's what football can mean to a small city, a small town like this. And I'm always in, every single time. And I don't know why we don't do this anymore. I don't know what went wrong. I don't know where Hollywood went sideways. I think now, if they, they had an idea like this,

• 6:25Bill Simmons?

  it's probably a TV show.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a series.

• 6:27Bill Simmons?

  And it's, and we, we probably have a whole bunch of extra 2020s stuff that they would throw in there. And the coach would be having an affair. And the boosters would have info on him. And, you know, teammates would be, be at a love triangle. They'd be, this is just, here's Steph. He wants to get out. He's got this girlfriend who won't give it up to him. She's in the band. Coach wants to get out, too. They gotta win this one game. They don't, shit goes wrong, and there are consequences. And we're done in 91 minutes.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  It's simple. It's like old-fashioned apple pie, man. It's just simple ingredients. Now, it's like, they would do a series, and at the end of the first episode, they would reveal that Steph is actually a superhero. He's one of the Green Lanterns, and he can fly. And you're like, oh, well, that's kind of fucking lame. Steph, Steph is instantly relatable and instantly likable. And my take on that is that, like, you're going into this movie, and you're like, hold on a second. Our boy Cruise is playing a Serbian-American? All right, we're already five yards back. That's a, that's, that's a false start penalty. It's first and 15. You're already taking on water. You lost me already. And still, they still move the chains. It's so incredibly effective and economical in the first 30 seconds.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  All right, we're in Steph's room. He's got a hot girlfriend. He's a smart kid. He's an engineer. He likes football.

• 7:47Bill Simmons?

  Prom photo. Don't forget the prom, don't forget the prom photo.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  The prom photo right over the bed. Steph does pushups in his room. And like, God, I fucking love this movie. He does wide grip and then into close grip. And I'm like, Steph is a freak. He's attention to detail. He's a great athlete. And then he's doing his homework at breakfast. And I'm like, okay, he's smart. Bill, this is 30 seconds into knowing the character. I've seen Marvel movies, two hours in. I don't know shit about the character. It's so well done.

• 8:16Bill Simmons?

  You left out one key part of that opening. First minute with Steph. Wakes up, gets out of bed. He's fucking jacked, right? Just absolutely all-time Tom Cruise ripped. Opens the curtain.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  This is so good.

• 8:31Bill Simmons?

  Just longingly looks outside to just smoke coming up and, you know, blue collar houses all over the place. And you could just see him being like, I gotta get out of here. And that's how we wake up. Right into, right into pushups. Right, right.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  He even knew back then, like, he's the king of character entrances. I remember when you and me and CR did Days of Thunder.

• 8:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  And it's like Randy Quaid and the fellas are waiting around the track, and they're like, so who's this new hotshot driver we're hearing about? And then he's on a motorcycle, like, through the smoke.

• 9:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  That, that's amazing. This was years earlier. He's still like blanket off, eight-pack abs, shaved up. Like, he looks like a fucking movie star from the first shot. It's great.

• 9:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we gotta go through the Cruise. And I want to go into the football after this, but Tom Cruise.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Oh, I got so much.

• 9:19Bill Simmons?

  193 Rewatchables now. He's got a five-movie lead over anyone else. Some people are saying he'll never lose it. Like, this might, this, this'll just be the lead for the rest of our lives. It's so funny watching this Cruise, and then 43 years later, Digger in the makeup Cruise. But by the way, Digger seems like it's circling back. There's now a Digger Hive. There's a bunch of Zags with Digger.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Well, Affleck's soundbite on it really resonated, where he's like, this is like high school bullying. All you assholes want original movies. Here we have one, and you're just making fun of it. So good luck, enjoy your superhero movies. Like, he had a whole take on it, which I really respected.

• 9:53Bill Simmons?

  I feel like I have to support the movie. I still haven't seen it. 1981, he's in Taps. Stands out. It's a Timothy Hutton, Sean Penn vehicle, but Cruise is kind of the wild card of that movie. 1983, he makes four movies that come out in the span of eight months. The Outsiders, where he's like the seventh lead.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  He's barely in it.

• 10:13Bill Simmons?

  Losing it. Classic raunchy teen 80s comedy. He goes to Mexico to try to get laid. Shelley Long's in it. And Jackie Earl Haley. August, Risky Business.

• 10:26Bill Simmons?

  Just takes off. It becomes the 10th biggest movie of 1983 and he immediately becomes a star. And whenever this happens, you end up with like a Julia Roberts type thing where Pretty Woman comes out, a year passes and then I think her next movie was either Sleeping With The Enemy or Dying Young, but it was like a year after and there's like the hype machine's going. She's a celebrity now and then it's like that one where people are just gonna go regardless of what it's about. All the Right Moves comes out three months after Risky Business.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  I know.

• 10:54Bill Simmons?

  So they, they hit lightning in a bottle. I saw it in the theater with a, with a bunch of friends from, it was either eighth or ninth grade and, and we went because of Cruise. That was it. There was no other reason. It's like the Risky Business guys in this, it's gotta be good.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  So you and, you and a bunch of your eighth grade friends were in the theater for like the Leah Thompson, all the boobs and all that.

• 11:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, making jokes, whistles, all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Also Cruise, 1983,

• 11:22Bill Simmons?

  gets into Princeton and Cal Poly, same year and two different movies. Overachieves. Risky Business, he has to have the, the call girl party.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 11:32Bill Simmons?

  And then Cal Poly basically has to guilt trip the coach and, and have his girlfriend involved. But anyway, I, I wrote this down, Kyle Brandt.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Tell me.

• 11:42Bill Simmons?

  You wouldn't think if I asked somebody, who had the greatest single year of high school movies ever, they would list, I think 30 people before Cruise. But if you actually go through the IMDBs, two high school movies same year, it's really only Anthony Michael Hall with Breakfast Club and Weird Science in 85. Everyone else is year to year, like Molly Ringwald, Emilio Estevez, name anybody.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  I'm thinking, Michael J. Fox, Teen Wolf and Back To The Future, was that the same year?

• 12:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  That's pretty close.

• 12:14Bill Simmons?

  Wait a second. Was Back To The Future 85 or 84? Or now I gotta look that up.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Eighty-five.

• 12:19Bill Simmons?

  Now, so he has the title then.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  I mean, that's, that's, that's a hell of a, plus he's doing Family Ties at the same time. I, I, I think those are the years.

• 12:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm gonna look that up for sure. All right. So Cruise is second. So Michael J. Fox, if that's true, I'm just going through IMDB to make sure. Yeah, that would be 85, Teen Wolf, Back To The Future. So I would put that over, over Risk. Yeah, that, that's, that's gotta win. So Cruise is second. But still, you would never, you don't think of him as like a

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 12:47Bill Simmons?

  High school movie actor and yet he made two like iconic ones.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Yes. And iconic movies that are also like full of sex, like, like graphic, rated sex.

• 13:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, horniness.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  This one, it's like if you show up looking for the football here, you're gonna get some. But this, it's kind of like a teenage horny movie with the side of football. I really do think that. It's a lot of that.

• 13:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that car scene where they're parked on the cliff. You're like, oh, boy.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:16Bill Simmons?

  You're, you're watching this movie at like your girlfriend's house on, on VHS in 1984, not knowing. It's like, oh, no.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Well, I don't wanna step on it, but I don't know if you or Craig have like the, he got game prostitute award for like the scene you can't watch with your parents.

• 13:33Bill Simmons?

  Oh, they, this movie has two of them.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yes. I mean, you, you could get through some, but not these.

• 13:37Bill Simmons?

  I rewatched with my dad last night. I watched it twice this week. Second time. Just fast forward over both of them. I'm like, hey.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Even as an adult.

• 13:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I was like, I'm not, just not watching this with you. Period.

• 13:48Bill Simmons?

  This movie combines, I wrote down a bunch of Cruise tropes.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:55Bill Simmons?

  So we get the drunk speech near the end of the movie when he's with the high school buddies. It's basically Cocktail. He's doing the, and Rule Number Five. I don't even know. We, we didn't get the first four rules sub out, but we have that. We get the Cruise trying not to cry face right after he gets kicked off the team. Jerry Maguire. We get the, he didn't quit, you quit, which is a little Colonel Jessup-ish.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:20Bill Simmons?

  You cut these guys loose. We get the going off on the coach near the end outside. He's like, you're just a typing teacher. Very similar.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Gives you that power.

• 14:32Bill Simmons?

  A little similar to the Demi Moore in The Rain and A Few Good Men.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:35Bill Simmons?

  After, when they get in the fight and he runs outside and he's like, dude, galactically stupid. Cruise trying really hard to be good at something that he clearly had to practice, which is color money, Cocktail, all of those. This is cornerback. There's that one close up of him in the Walnut High game when he's, he's doing like, what's going on there?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Dance. It's really weird, but I like it.

• 15:00Bill Simmons?

  We get Cocky Cruise during the recruiting trip with Terry O'Quinn, who would later go on to be Locke from Lost.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  John Locke.

• 15:08Bill Simmons?

  He's like, yeah, I don't know if your school's for me, but that's all of a sudden we're in Rain Man, Rain Man Days of Thunder territory. And then the celebrating at the end after he gets in, I feel like that's been in five Cruise movies.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  It has.

• 15:20Bill Simmons?

  What did I leave out, anything?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  No, I, I had like a, a completely separate point, but to supplement yours.

• 15:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Being like new friends with this movie, when he's sitting there at the kegger and he's just spouting off and drunk, I was like, jeez, is, Tom Cruise are like our most accomplished drunken actor. He's fucking drunk in every movie. There's so many of them. And like, I was gonna do this for Hot Take, but it's not even Hot Take. Cocktail, it's like Dare To Dream Big drunk when he's doing Chantilly Lace. Born On The Fourth Of July, he's torn up war veteran drunk.

• 15:55Bill Simmons?

  Ooh.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  The Firm, he's horny drunk walking home on the beach in the Caymans when he runs into the hot girl.

• 16:00Bill Simmons?

  I like horny drunk Cruise.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Is, we're fucked drunk because Malcolm, Markinson committed suicide. Jerry Maguire, I just lost Avery and Kush and I'm gonna shoplift the pootie from a single mother drunk. And then one of you even mentioned, I don't even think it's done the rewatchables. Last Samurai, I'm the white savior and I'm begging for Saki from the Samurai's drunk. He's hammered. And what's funny, Bill, is that like, I don't think he parties. Like, I don't think Tom Cruise has gotten wasted in a long time. He's like, he's a clean liver, but he's drunk in so many movies in so many different ways.

• 16:35Bill Simmons?

  I'd go further. I don't, it's unclear if he's ever had a drop of alcohol.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  You know what?

• 16:41Bill Simmons?

  If you told me he never had a drop of alcohol, I'd be like, I believe it.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  I would have believed it too. I, I was in my kitchen 20 minutes ago. I just go, hey, Siri, does Tom Cruise drink alcohol? And she was like, Tom Cruise does not drink alcohol because he likes to be healthy for his stunts. He has an occasional celebratory drink. And I was like, so that's basically no, but that's what she said.

• 17:04Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:05Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna say he's never tasted it. Can we bring producer Craig in? Cause I'm bringing him, even though we're on Zoom. I, I feel like we need it multiple times. Do you think Tom Cruise has ever had a drink of alcohol, Craig?

• 17:17Speaker 04

  I think, I think performatively in the eighties and nineties, much like the character in this movie, when Cruise is out with the guys, I think, and everyone's ordering beers, I don't think Cruise is not gonna get a beer when he's out with his other actors in the nineties.

• 17:28Bill Simmons?

  Cause he's gonna feel like he has to do it. Like, he's gonna not fit in in some way.

• 17:34Speaker 04

  Did you see that video recently of Mark Zuckerberg trying Guinness? And he's like choking it down like he's drinking poison. I think that is maybe what Cruise is doing, but he's definitely ordering a beer, I think.

• 17:43Bill Simmons?

  I mean, the, the all time winner of this is Vin Diesel, where in Fast And Furious. Cause he just clearly just had never drank. So he would drink the beer bottle and he would tilt it.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  All the way up.

• 17:54Bill Simmons?

  All the way up.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  I'm gonna beer.

• 17:57Bill Simmons?

  And you're just like, oh, you've never had a beer.

• 17:59Speaker 04

  The mechanics of the Corona bottle. He can't quite figure out where to hold it.

• 18:02Bill Simmons?

  Um, right. Wait, Craig, before you, before you go, can, can we talk about Cruise as a cornerback, what you saw? Cause I know you'd never seen this movie. You're gonna save your ultimate take for later, but just Steph Georgievich in the combine, what were your thoughts?

• 18:17Speaker 04

  Well, he, he's, he's very shifty. I mean, he, he claims in the movie, the character claims 5'10".

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  Cruise.

• 18:24Bill Simmons?

  I have it in what's age the worst.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  Cruise is 35, 6, 5, 7. I, I sent this over text. I think this, is this the only time Cruise has ever said his height in a movie or in real life?

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Gotta be.

• 18:34Speaker 04

  Has to be. 5'10", which I think is, it's as tall as you can get without people getting upset, I think. He couldn't, if he, if he said 5'11" or 6 feet, I think people are pissed. But to me, look, Cruise, he, he's an energy guy. I see him more as a punt returner, like a Caden Weege, the guy the Steelers just got. Little white guy, speedy. I don't think the mechanics are there. Corner, but like he's full energy. What did they say? He hits like a truck?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 18:59Speaker 04

  To me, he's like a, he's a 10-year special teamer.

• 19:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. My thought is, I wondered why they just didn't do Wes Welker with him. Just make him like basically like tweeter in Varsity Blues, like just an unbelievable slot receiver. And they have this crazy three receiver offense, but then he also plays corner. But they make it seem like he's Darrell Rivas.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  His pick six, like the running is not bad. He bounces off people. Like it's why I see punt returner because he could have been a wide receiver. The yard after the catch ability, not bad.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  But Kyle, the, the.

• 19:31Bill Simmons?

  The diving tackle, you played, Kyle played football.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 19:34Bill Simmons?

  All the way through college. The diving tackle on the first Walnut High touchdown when Cruz misses him.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:40Bill Simmons?

  I thought was his single most impressive football thing in the movie.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a, that's, cause that's you wanna show up on tape like you left maximum effort. You just dive because it's gonna look good.

• 19:49Bill Simmons?

  With a good skid, yeah.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. But there's something, I'll just get to it now. There's so much about the football that I like here and that really is genuinely realistic high school football. The thing that fucking kills me about this movie, it's preposterous that neither Steph nor Brian Riley plays offense. It's so, I, I can't stand it.

• 20:08Bill Simmons?

  That was my biggest nitpick.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Come on, what are we doing?

• 20:10Bill Simmons?

  Thirty-seven guys in the team. He can't play receiver?

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Do you got a full ride to USC and you're not playing center or fullback?

• 20:18Bill Simmons?

  You're not the tight end? Brian Riley's not coming in on third downs?

• 20:22Speaker 01

  It's ridiculous. It really kills the movie.

• 20:24Speaker 04

  How many corners were wearing neck rolls in the eighties? Was that common?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Oh, God. The neck rolls are like basically the first on the call sheet for this movie.

• 20:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Neck roll, Tom Cruise. There, there's so many neck rolls in this movie. I just, it's, everyone has one. The fans have them, the cheerleaders have them.

• 20:40Bill Simmons?

  You know why?

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Think you weren't taking the field without one.

• 20:42Bill Simmons?

  You know why? This is eighty-three. This is the heyday of Steve Grogan. This is when, when he really unleashed it. He was, he was like the first person who made it, you can be on either side of the ball and wear a neck roll.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  I know. It's so cool.

• 20:55Bill Simmons?

  I still bought Cruz as a undersized but frisky, hits like a truck, high school cornerback.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:02Bill Simmons?

  I don't see him going to UCLA or Miami or any big school. Like, he clearly at least realized he was too small. The Brian Riley piece, who seemed like he was about an inch taller than Cruz and not really jacked, playing middle linebacker at USC? That one, I thought that was way more unrealistic to me.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Well, they tried to compensate by giving him the largest shoulder pads that have ever been manufactured ever. His shoulder pads are giant, giant. But I, I would say the, the five-ten thing, that's something, obviously Cruz would never have that dialogue in a movie now. He was young and innocent. And it reminds me, Bill, is when we did Hard to Kill, there's a part where Mason Storm has come back and he's catching up about his, about his son and like hearing about him. And his guy, Malley's like, yeah, and he's telling him about his kid's life. He's like, runs on the track team. He's got his old man's speed. Like to Mason Storm, like his kid is a great runner. Mason fucking Storm is a great runner, his kid. Yeah, come on. That's such a, like a not reading the room. The same thing with here with the five-ten.

• 22:06Bill Simmons?

  All right. Craig, I'm bringing you back in a little bit.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, Craig.

• 22:09Bill Simmons?

  The Craig T. Nelson piece of this.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 22:14Bill Simmons?

  So he becomes coach, literally in the TV show Coach, which is called Coach and plays Coach forever because he was awesome as a coach. Craig T. Nelson, red hot after Poltergeist. He'd been around, he'd had some cups of coffee. You knew who he was. He'd been in TV movies. And then Poltergeist comes out, he's the dad. And this is his next movie. And it's both an awesome football coach performance. And he's also reprehensible. And I don't, all these years later, I'm not sure where I've landed. But you, you, you've a recent friend of this movie. Where do you land?

• 22:48Speaker 01

  I, I got all kinds of things that I like. First of all, there's a really cool thing that, like, we're, we're recording this on Friday. Mike Ditka died a week ago. Mike Ditka's roots are in Alequipa High School, which they mention a couple of times in this movie. And it's like really representative of how he grew up. And I saw in some of the Ditka memories, they referenced this type of movie and this type of football and all the coaching. And Craig T. Nelson drew inspiration from Ditka. But Bill, I have a thing, I, things I wrote down about Coach that I like. I love that he keeps grabbing his players' face masks.

• 23:18Bill Simmons?

  I had that down as well.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Move. It would never happen now. It would be frowned on. The parents would complain. He didn't like it. He constantly is, ladies, come on, ladies. Five minutes late, would never happen now.

• 23:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Um, my way, or it's the highway, which is literally a line that ends up in, in Roadhouse. Um, I love that he constantly does the, uh, are there any quitters on this team? They say, no, I can't hear you. I still, like, I still can't hear you. He does that a bunch. And then I love when he talks about the star running back. He goes, I don't care if he goes to take a crap. You show him the way there. That is all classic shit. And he gets him all in. I like him in this role a lot.

• 23:56Bill Simmons?

  And I liked when he does the speech when he's like, they have a, they have a golf team.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 24:02Bill Simmons?

  They have a tennis team.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Swimming team.

• 24:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The, there are some eighty, the two eighties things, I, I had the same about grabbing the face mask. Nobody's doing that. And then walking into the locker room and calling everyone ladies. That, I think, went through basically the, I would say the nineties. Cause they would do it in cop movies too.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 24:20Bill Simmons?

  Cop movies and, and sports movies. But I thought he was incredibly believable. What do you think? So he's more of like a Mike, Mike McDonald type? Where would you go? Like a young Pete Carroll?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, because he, he's not someone who wants to stay in Western Pennsylvania. He's not like, this is where football lives. I wanna, he wants to get the fuck out of there.

• 24:38Bill Simmons?

  But definitely a defensive specialist as, as.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Cause he's not getting the head coach job at Poly. He's coaching the defensive backs.

• 24:45Bill Simmons?

  Right, the D-backs.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  The eighth coach on the, on the thing. So he's like a lifer, gonna move twelve times. He wants to get all the way. Pete Carroll's an interesting example. Like, it, it could be something in that regard, yeah.

• 24:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Oh, he came up with the six-two stack. Nobody had ever thought about that before.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Six-two stack monster.

• 25:01Bill Simmons?

  And then Leah Thompson was the other, uh, the other famous person from this movie. Although I don't know how famous she was when they made it, but, um,

• 25:10Bill Simmons?

  I wrote this down. I think my favorite high school movie eighties girlfriend ever. It's, it's her or Sloan and Ferris Bueller.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Who was one and done.

• 25:22Bill Simmons?

  Where the entire movie, you're just like, she's great.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 25:26Bill Simmons?

  Wish I could find somebody like that. She's, she's supportive, she's loyal, funny, plays the sax. So she's got a little bit of the band geek side.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:35Bill Simmons?

  Like, clearly like the, the sex piece is meaningful to her and she wants it to be in the right thing on her term. Like, you'd feel that way about, that's somebody that's probably a keeper. And then, uh, and at the end, when the coach's wife is like, you know, he's gonna leave. You'll probably break up. And she's like, I love him. I want, like, she, she loves him and she wants him to go because it's the best for him. And it's just like, you're the fucking best.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  It's one of the nicest females I, I can think of in a movie ever. She is so lovely in everything she does. And like, you feel for her and you root for her. What is it? Like, we have the.

• 26:13Bill Simmons?

  Lisa Lettsky.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Lisa Lettsky. Yeah, like, we have the rose from Titanic for like sneaky worst character ever. This is the Lisa from All the Right Moves about, this is the nicest person that's ever been born.

• 26:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  And she's like, yeah, I'm gonna lose Steph. He's gonna go out of a better life and I'm gonna be a grocery clerk. But I'm gonna do it anyway because I love him. What the fuck? That's unbelievable. What a nice girl.

• 26:33Bill Simmons?

  Well, she might be able to get out too with this, with, we got to see her play the sax a couple of times.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe so. She's pretty good.

• 26:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I'm gonna move to New York and join a band. But yeah, she, she, uh, she had a nice run in the eighties. A year later, she's in one of our favorites that we have not done yet, Red Dawn.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Oh, hell, yes. Let's go.

• 26:51Bill Simmons?

  Thing in there and, and bounced around and then ended up on one of the biggest bombs of all time, Howard the Duck.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Howard the Duck.

• 26:58Bill Simmons?

  Which she ended up, I think, marrying the director of that movie.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:03Bill Simmons?

  And then, years later, Zoe Deutsch, her daughter, becomes like one of the, one of the big rom-com movie actresses of the last twelve years. She, she's been in like, I would say, six or seven movies that my wife and daughter have watched a hundred times. That's Leah Thompson's daughter.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Wow. And she, I mean, talented family. She's, I mean, obviously then Leah did, she was Lorraine McFly. She did all the Back to the Future movies.

• 27:29Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Some kind of wonderful, the movie people love, but like, she's.

• 27:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I probably should have mentioned Back to the Future.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  So good. Yeah.

• 27:35Bill Simmons?

  One of the biggest movies of the eighties. But yeah, she, in this type of thing, they only tapped into her a couple of times. She's in The Wildlife with Chris Penn.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:43Bill Simmons?

  Which was bad. Um, but she had a nice run. Supporting cast, including Chris Penn, who I've always loved from this movie in Footloose. Was always rooting for him. And then True Romance, he comes in with, uh, with Sizmore. They play cops.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  The best.

• 27:57Bill Simmons?

  Really could have been its own movie. It's so disappointing. They didn't spin that off. Um, Rifleman, the quarterback. I have some thoughts on him later. Hold that.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  I thought you might.

• 28:09Bill Simmons?

  Terry O'Quinn is the recruiter. Great to see him.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  One scene.

• 28:13Bill Simmons?

  Leon, as the star wide receiver.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  That's our guy.

• 28:19Bill Simmons?

  All the Right Moves, star receiver, gets into West Virginia near the end. And they're just like, oh, he always wanted to go to West Virginia.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:26Bill Simmons?

  Cliffhanger.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah. Punching Sly. Sly go, you hit like a bitch. So good.

• 28:33Bill Simmons?

  And above the rim. He's Shep.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:36Bill Simmons?

  He's talking to nutso, playing pickup by himself without a ball. You hear that nutso? And then comes in and lights it up at the end and goes nuts and think. I, I'll say it. I think he's a goaded rewatchables that guy. Just those three movies. I think he can make the Hall of Fame.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  And it makes sure no one is misunderstanding this. His, he's one name only, just Leon. Leon. L-E-O-N, no last name. It's so cool.

• 28:58Bill Simmons?

  Pittsburgh area movies. This was a big run right here, cause we also had Flashdance.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Sure. Massive. Same year, right?

• 29:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like the blue collar thing was big. Deer Hunter was a few years before. That was same, I think, Western Pennsylvania. Jack Reacher, Cruz goes back, he's in Pittsburgh again. And then The Hidden One, which we'll do on rewatchables at some point before I die. Striking Distance with Bruce Willis and Sarah Jessica Parker. Boat cops.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Movie. Yes.

• 29:27Bill Simmons?

  He's been, he used to be one of the, one of the best people on the force.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 29:31Bill Simmons?

  Some shit went down. He got, he, he got a raw deal. And now he's like basically in the Pittsburgh Coast Guard, trying to solve a Sierra Leone thing. It's amazing.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Can I ask you, if, if you fuck up at the boat cop level, then do you go down to like bike cop or is it horse cop? What's like, what's below?

• 29:48Bill Simmons?

  Bike cop and then mall. I think mall's the next one. They, they did this for The Wire. They relegated McDulte. He was like basically a boat cop for one year.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 29:56Bill Simmons?

  But they said, uh, in the research, Johnstown was where they filmed a lot of this movie, which really needed it. They had fifty-one hundred of seven thousand workers had been laid off.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:05Bill Simmons?

  The producer brought in a whole bunch of stuff, two million bucks, um, of extra stuff for the movie. The unemployment rate when they filmed the movie there was twenty-four point eight percent. This was like, really? This is when like the Springsteen, John Cougar Mellencamp kind of, kind of music was really resonating. Cause it was all these towns that were built on this one thing were starting to fall aside. Johnstown, also the location of Slapshot.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:34Bill Simmons?

  Now making it the greatest sports movie, random sports movie location of all time. Slapshot and All the Right Moves together. The other crazy thing, this movie was directed by Michael Chapman.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:47Bill Simmons?

  Who wasn't normally a director because he was one of the best cinematographers of the past 50 years. Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, did The Fugitive. He's like a million things.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  He was like Scorsese's guy growing up, like his protege.

• 30:59Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  And here he is, and that's, listen, and you know who shot this movie. Let's get into it. That's why this movie is so good.

• 31:04Bill Simmons?

  Tell the people.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Jan de Bont directed a little movie called Speed, shot Die Hard.

• 31:10Bill Simmons?

  A little twister.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Prodigy. Like, this is, this is why this movie cooks with gas. Great director, great DP. It looks beautiful.

• 31:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you have the most overqualified possible people to shoot a football movie in western Pennsylvania. So, like, the great shock order award for this movie is clearly The Rally. Steph finds out that his buddies knocked up his girlfriend and he's not going to USA. He's like, "We're still going. We're still getting out of here, right?" And then they set off the fireworks and the confetti and Cruz is just in the doorway with the confetti falling on him. And I think that's what they use for the commercial too, but it just, everything looks great in this movie. Written by Michael Caine. It was from a piece that Pat Jordan, really great sports writer, wrote for something called Geo Magazine in 1980, where he spent four weeks with the Duquesne High School football team. And basically, this was the

• 32:03Bill Simmons?

  angle, like, football's your one way out. If you don't get out, you're gonna work at this mill. And that's just how it's gonna go.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  You said this, undefeated concept. "I'm bigger than this town. I have dreams." We see it in Rudy. You see it in Footloose. Fucking Star Wars is about that. Luke Skywalker wants to get out of Tatooine and he has bigger things to do. It's, it's a great concept that's very hard to mess up, and I don't see it done better very often than it is in All the Right Moves.

• 32:31Bill Simmons?

  Anytime somebody says, "I'm getting out of here," like, the town even has that with Doug McCray.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  I know.

• 32:37Bill Simmons?

  "Getting out of here. I'm going to some random place in Florida." So, Roger Ebert, three stars.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Three stars? Okay. I'll take it.

• 32:47Bill Simmons?

  "Really appreciated," he wrote, "after all the junk high school movies in which kids chop each other up, seduce the French teacher, and visit whorehouses in Mexico. It is so wonderful to see a movie again that remembers that most teenagers are vulnerable, unsure, sincere, and fundamentally decent." Raj.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  That's Raj. Well, the joke's on you, because in Tom Cruise's last movie, he had a whorehouse in his house in the north suburbs. So, like, I don't know what you're judging.

• 33:12Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna take a break and come back with the rewatchable scenes.

• 33:18Speaker 03

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• 34:14Bill Simmons?

  All right, most rewatchable scene. We mentioned the opening scene with the credits. We get to see wherever we are outside of Pittsburgh, we get the "We can make all the right moves." We get Cruz staring at the window. I'm handing him the Dr. Richard Kimball Inappropriate Body Award. He's just absolutely fucking ripped. I don't know if Tom Cruise ate food for two months for this movie. He's, he's like Sly Stallone Rocky IV level, 3% body fat.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  There's 300 categories, and it's still one of my favorites. We gave it to Chosen on Credit Kid 2 as well. It's a great award.

• 34:49Bill Simmons?

  I forgot about that one. So, the theme song by Jennifer Warrens and Chris Thompson were the ones that sang it. The lyrics include, "They promised we'd have a chance. That's all we're hoping for."

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:01Bill Simmons?

  "A lucky break is all we're due. We can't wait anymore."

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Great.

• 35:05Bill Simmons?

  Great. "And if we make all the right moves," one more time, "if we make all the right moves, we can show them all that there's no way we can lose."

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:15Bill Simmons?

  Let's go. This, 83 to 86, we just peaked with bad movie songs.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  And they would do the songs that were the name of the movie. This has come up. Like, we did Just One of the Guys, and there's this dumb pop song. And the one that I know you're into is "No Way Out."

• 35:34Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Kevin Costner, the spy movie, and there's a song that's the name of the movie. It's so on the nose. You don't see it anymore.

• 35:41Bill Simmons?

  It was clearly a note from the producers, like, "You got two weeks. Write us something catchy." "Here's the plot of the movie. Can you work that in and make sure you say the title? The title of this movie is 'No Way Out.'" Work that in. "The title of the movie is 'All the Right Moves.'" If you could make that the chorus, that would be great. So, you have Jennifer Warrens and Chris Thompson, like, writing down, "What if, what if, if we could make all the right moves?" Great, great. All right.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 36:07Bill Simmons?

  How'd that, how would that go?

• 36:08Speaker 01

  And then they took it to them, like, and then John Hughes started getting involved. And normally, he, like, put as many pop songs as possible and Ferris and stuff. But then in Weird Science, it's Weird Science.

• 36:18Bill Simmons?

  Right. Thomas Tobe got the note.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  It was cool.

• 36:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:21Bill Simmons?

  Put it in there. Great opening. We have the locker room scene where they're all dancing.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:27Bill Simmons?

  Steph, it's, it's a classic, like, "Look, the white guys and the black guys. They're all getting together at one team." The coach comes in, he starts dancing for a second, and then it's like, "Okay, ladies!" And it's just, I, I, I'm just always into the locker room and the football seats.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  So, when they're dancing and they're hip thrusting, initially, Iceman was supposed to come in and say, "What's your problem, Kazansky?" Like, that, that is like, that is the precursor of the Top Gun locker room scene.

• 36:56Bill Simmons?

  No question.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  It's just guys in their underwear, thrusting their hips. And I love when, when Steph is thrusting his hips. He's like, "Yeah, this could come in handy, right?" It's just, it's so weird. And that hairy guy who looks 38 just has a jock on.

• 37:09Bill Simmons?

  There's three or four guys on this team who are mid-30s that, like, other people must have called it sick. I enjoy that. The recruiting scene, Steph has a heat check. There's other schools they'd rather look at first. And then the dad gives them the, "I hope you know what you're doing." It's like, this is gonna backfire. This being cocky about getting a college scholarship offer.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude, you think you're John Elway?

• 37:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Like, you're a little corner at 5'7", a Serbian. You don't do anything like in Pittsburgh. And he's stiff-arming him. Very strange choice. Hubris.

• 37:39Bill Simmons?

  The coach's quitter and loser speech, and just in general, I could have spent six, seven, eight more minutes just in the practice field.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Same.

• 37:46Bill Simmons?

  Just watching the drills. At one point, the offense and the defense split up, and I was like, "Can we just see more? Is there like a wide receiver drill?"

• 37:54Speaker 01

  I know. I sent this to you and Craig. There's a shot, it's a crane shot, an overhead shot of practice, and it starts the scene. And it's like a running back and a cornerback. And they run right into each other with the crowns of their heads and fall down. It's, it's a startling image. Right now, Bill, like, I'm, I'm in the middle. I'm coaching 7th and 8th grade football, tackle football.

• 38:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  And like, anytime there's any kind of collision, we're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's, let's slow down. Everybody okay? Let's separate. They got the guardian hounds on." I watched that. I almost fell off my couch. I was like, "Both those guys are paralyzed, at least concussed." And they're like, "Let's go. Rub some dirt in it, Jovanovic. Let's go." It's awesome.

• 38:31Bill Simmons?

  You sent us that hit, and I was waiting for Tom Jackson to come in and go, "They got jacked up!"

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Jacked up!

• 38:37Bill Simmons?

  Just a violent helmet, helmet thing. The, the quitters and losers speech. Also, Steph screwing up.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:47Bill Simmons?

  And then everybody having to run laps. And he's like, "Everybody, five laps. You, 10."

• 38:52Speaker 01

  10 laps.

• 38:53Bill Simmons?

  But, um, I love that Steph, there's some sort of miscommunication with the hit, where he's clearly, it's just complete pass interference. You're supposed to be this cornerback that's going div one. You're just, you're just wrestling this guy down before the ball gets there. It's like, "What do you mean? It was a great hit."

• 39:08Speaker 01

  I know. I know.

• 39:10Bill Simmons?

  All right, next scene. Now, we're really, I, I think this stretch of the movie, I'm not sure it gets better in the 80s, but...

• 39:17Speaker 01

  I know where you're going. Let's go.

• 39:18Bill Simmons?

  The Bulldogs' Pepper Alley, where he finds out Bry is having a kid.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 39:25Bill Simmons?

  And also, I like the prep rally. I like the bulldog. I like Bosco, the booster. Have a lot of thoughts about him later.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I have some questions too.

• 39:33Bill Simmons?

  So many people there. You really get the feeling, oh, my God, this is a really big game. But then we go right into the bus ride with the song The Last Stand by Doug Kehan. I don't know if you have any of his CDs.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  I don't, but I'm gonna get it now.

• 39:46Bill Simmons?

  It starts out. Life is made of moments, the ones you understand. Victory by inches in someone else's hands. So they clearly gave him the notes. They were like, hey, so it's, this is, the song's The Last Stand. They're gonna be on a bus driving, just write down like as many sports cliches as possible about a big game. And then record that and send that to us. Doug Kehan's like, I got it. The bot in this whole stretch is just cooking.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  I know.

• 40:22Bill Simmons?

  Prep rally cooking, bus ride, wide shots, close ups of the players, wide shots again. Let's go through the bus window and then, uh, and, and just the whole, the whole stretch. We go there, touching the 1960 ball. I love when teams have the old ball. The autographs, getting taped up, Salvucci flipping out about the tape roll. Cruz hitting his head on the wall. And then the coach with the crazy speech where he probably crosses a line in there at one point.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  I did a full spit take. I was like, wow, Jesus Christ, Nickerson, you can't say that.

• 40:58Bill Simmons?

  Um, they look at us and they see a bunch of losers from a downtown, but we're gonna show them something tonight. Just an incredible 10 minutes. What's your favorite part of this whole stretch?

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I'm getting it. The football scene is obvious and it's fantastic. Bill, that bus ride gave me chills. That, anybody who has ever done anything like that. You ride into the other team's town. They got the banners up. Sometimes they have managers like disparaging your high school, your mascot. Everybody's nervous. They're listening to their music. They, they had that shot of Brian. He's got a goddamn tear going down his cheek because he's thinking about the baby, but he's thinking he's still gotta make 10 tackles in this game. Uh, I actually got like post-football syndrome chills watching that. I was like back in 1996.

• 41:45Bill Simmons?

  Positive PTSD.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Positive. It was so, so well done.

• 41:49Bill Simmons?

  It was reverse PTSD. It just made you happy.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  It, it, it made me so happy. And then, I mean, obviously you, you get to the game, which is just a fantastic filet mignon of high school football. It's so good.

• 42:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I wish there was more. It's so good. It's like I could have gone, I, you skip right to the last four minutes of the fourth quarter from halftime. It's like, I kinda wanted to see some of the third quarter. We get the Cruz dive tackle. We get Rifleman just cannoning one deep to, uh, to our guy Leon. We get the Cruz pick six. I, I probably would have done one more take.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Okay, all right. I, I think it's a win. I think it's a buy.

• 42:27Bill Simmons?

  It's a win for Cruz for the run, but the, the pass right to Cruz.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  The pass wasn't great.

• 42:32Bill Simmons?

  I, I would have been like, let's do one more time where you're running in front of the receiver. It's just not. The only person who's throwing that pass in the NFL right now is maybe Cam Ward. Uh huh. Where it's just like, I'm throwing it, maybe Bo Nix. I'm just throwing it right to that receiver.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  All right. What comes to mind is we, we've said this before about some of Arnold's line readings and you're like, how's that the one they used? And it's like, it was the best one. They did do one more. That's, that's the best one. That's the best they got. And it was like, that shot is really complicated and I get it. The pass looks fake, but after the pass, it does look very good.

• 43:08Bill Simmons?

  We need to bring Craig back in.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:12Bill Simmons?

  The, the pick six right to Cruz, what was your first reaction?

• 43:17Speaker 04

  I mean, it's an easy play. Like if this guy's a D1 cornerback, you have to make it. What upset me the most about that play, I agree with Kyle. I thought the run was actually kind of impressive. It looked like Cruz. Cruz took on real hits there on the way to the end zone. But like, you're telling me the best take you got of his celebration is Tom, is Steph yelling, in your face, Walnut Heights? That's, that's the big line? In your face, Walnut Heights?

• 43:42Bill Simmons?

  Tough one. Well, then, then it starts raining. And you know who starts heating up for Walnut Heights? Cam Scatabo.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Go on.

• 43:51Bill Simmons?

  Cam Scatabo just takes over. He takes over the game. And he's one of my, he might be a possible Dion Waiters contestant because, you know, this is the classic high school football thing where it's like, it's kinda not fair you're in this game. But there's no chance you're gonna be in the pros, but for right now, this is lopsided. Um, Cruz gets the PI, which is just egregious. They're calling it every time and he's like, it was a good hit, Bry. It was a good hit.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. What the fuck are you talking about?

• 44:20Bill Simmons?

  And then the goal line stand.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 44:22Bill Simmons?

  Which is awesome. And then I need both of your reactions to how Coach Nickerson then handled the last 12 seconds. And what would happen on the internet if this, if the current social media blog podcast culture that we have now for these last 12 seconds, what happens?

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Craig, go ahead.

• 44:42Speaker 04

  It's funny. Didn't this kind of happen in the Vanderbilt? Was it Vanderbilt, the guy?

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, Vanderbilt, NC State.

• 44:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, it kind of happened. What I loved about this scene is that, and you never get this in movies. Cause usually you're like, everyone watching is like, you could have QB sneaked, take the safety and punt. It's totally fine. The next scene at the bar, a guy says that. He's like, what are you doing, Nickerson? He's like, just take the safety and punt. I was like, exactly. That's great.

• 45:07Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable. Well, we know that's why Nickerson was never gonna be a head coach, cause he botched this as badly as you could botch it. You're in like the half inch line.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  I will say, it's, it's a really creative way to end a film football game. Like, it's not, oh, a field goal gets blocked or somebody drops the catch. It's, we're backed up inside our one. Do we sneak it or hand it off? It's kind of a nuanced scenario for a movie. Um, but to answer your question, Bill, as you know, I regularly appear on the program First Take now.

• 45:35Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  So if I was sitting down and Shay, the, the wonderful host was like, okay, guys, so AMPipe, uh, Walnut Heights botched my last moment. Stephen A, what do you think? It would, I mean, he would just be like, well, you have to fire Coach Nickerson.

• 45:50Bill Simmons?

  Right. He's gotta go. He's gotta go, Shay.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Now, now. And he would walk off set and everything. You'd be fired before he gets to the bus if that was in today's movie.

• 45:58Bill Simmons?

  So do you think they should have, like if, obviously I should have been the sports movie consultant for every sports movie that's been made the last 50 years. They'd asked me, I think they should have been up by one.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  Why?

• 46:12Speaker 04

  Because then you can't take the safety.

• 46:13Bill Simmons?

  Cause then you can't take the safety.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Ah, okay.

• 46:16Bill Simmons?

  If it's, if it's 14, 13. Although I guess then maybe they would have just kicked the field goal, but it's pouring rain. Yeah. So maybe you can't do that.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  You're trying to take the safety option out of it. Yeah, I understand.

• 46:30Bill Simmons?

  I, I don't, it, it's just so egregious. I think when I saw this movie in the eighth grade or ninth grade, it was egregious then. It was like, why didn't they just take the safety and punt?

• 46:39Speaker 04

  Also, I might've been confused. Was there some like score chicanery that the movie, I thought the touchdown.

• 46:46Bill Simmons?

  It went from 10 to 7.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  They don't show the field goal.

• 46:49Speaker 04

  They don't show the field goal. I thought it was 14 to 7 when they get the goal line stand.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  No, they give them a field goal that you don't see cause it's boring.

• 46:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 46:57Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  But I mean, like, I, I don't know if this is a hot take, but as bad as it was by Coach Nickerson, I think what Dan Quinn did last week, it might have been even worse. And that was at the professional level. Like we're just ripping from the headlines right now. The NC State thing in Vanderbilt, but also the commanders thing was maybe even worse. And that led to a tie.

• 47:16Bill Simmons?

  All right, counter. So we know Salvucci is the backup running back.

• 47:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 47:21Bill Simmons?

  Cause they, they give us that info. We know Salvucci is wound tighter than a fucking violin cause he freaks out in the locker room before the game with the tape. And, uh, they put the, basically the game in his hands. I think you could at least say Rifleman should just fall, get the snap and fall forward. Would be the move, right? Cause you, you can't, if you just snap and QB sneak, you're just, you, you can't go backwards on a QB sneak. So I don't know why you're doing.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Coach is lying in bed the night, that night. He's like, oh, man, I should have had Rifleman fall forward.

• 47:51Bill Simmons?

  Oh, really?

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Doctor? Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 04

  It's pouring rain.

• 47:54Bill Simmons?

  He's like, he's like 42 power right on two. It's like, power right? What are you doing?

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Uh, I have, I have a, my, my hot take is about this play, but I, I guess I should save it for later. Or should I go now?

• 48:07Bill Simmons?

  No, do it now. Let's hear it.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  All right. My hot take, uh, today, the, uh, Luke Wilson could have been CR. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it's Vinnie Salvucci's fault. It's completely at fault for him. And I'll tell you why.

• 48:19Bill Simmons?

  Because he does the, the butter hands, whatever.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. I'll, Bill, you don't know how right you are.

• 48:24Bill Simmons?

  You're a running back.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  I got into the tape on this. Anybody who has played one second of high school football knows that when you are taking a handoff right, your pocket or breadbasket, the left arm has to be up. That is how it's properly done. I got into the tape. I looked at it. Salvucci has his right arm up. It's totally incorrect, practically incorrect. Look at that. He has his right arm up. It's incorrect. It's fundamentally unsound. Listen. The, the Walnut Heights line was getting controlled by AMPipe for the whole night. They had no problem. You just fall forward. If Salvucci puts his right arm up, they beat Walnut Heights. I think he completely blew it. And I think it was the right call, but he fucked up.

• 49:06Bill Simmons?

  So this really would have been a good first take thing, cause Stephen A would have said Nickerson gets fired. You zag with the, this was actually Salvucci's fault.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Yes, and I'd have to go bigger than that, though. I'd have to say, not only does this Nickerson not get fired, he gets extended. He's the coach of the year for this. You have to go big on those shows. But I would say they should cut Salvucci immediately for blowing up. And there would be like, it would be all the Orlovsky, like film smart guy types would break down the tape of how he messed up the handoff, which I just did. And every high school football nerd out there like me, watch it. Salvucci has the wrong handoff on the handoff.

• 49:43Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, you could really make the case that Nickerson coached a great game, to be honest. They let him 10, 10 points against Walnut Heights. For some reason, he's the first coach ever to come up with the idea that we're going to try to stop the run, even though Walnut Heights has like an all-state running back.

• 49:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Walnut Heights was, they were completely freaked out. They were like, hey, they keep cutting out our legs. I don't know what's happening.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  I couldn't love you more. Bill, I have to bring this up. It's the worst scene in the movie. It's the worst scene in the movie where Nickerson is at the chalkboard with his assistant. And he starts the scene, but he's like, I've been up all night thinking about this. And what he's been up all night thinking about is, well, they have a really good running back. Let's put a bunch of guys up on the line. And he's like, and the assistant goes, no one's ever tried it before. And Nickerson goes, but if it works, we're geniuses. Whoa, you're gonna do a 6'2" defense? What kind of rocket science is this? It's so bad. That scene kills me.

• 50:39Bill Simmons?

  He's basically saying it's a goal line stand for all four quarters.

• 50:42Speaker 04

  He says it. He's like, we're gonna do goal line the whole game, which is like what a 12-year-old does when he plays Madden.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Yes. It's just so bad. Like, he, the fact that they put six there is, is science fiction. No one's like, like, listen, I got deep into this last night and I was researching six-man fronts in the 70s. Notre Dame won the national title in 1977 with the six-man front. It's not some revolutionary thing to do. And the coach is like, what? All night thinking about it. It's so, I, that scene kills me.

• 51:12Speaker 04

  Also, tiny nitpick, but it feels like he is the best at coaching the defensive line, not the defensive backs. I'm surprised he's getting a defensive backs coaching job when he, I mean, the goal line stand, holding them to 10 points, stopping this running back, the goal line idea, like, he should be a defensive line coach.

• 51:28Bill Simmons?

  My other, it's a very tiny nitpick. I wish they'd gone wider on the fourth down. We get the close-up, but it feels like, it feels like Chris Penn's character comes over the top with the second hit.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  He does, but you can barely tell.

• 51:42Bill Simmons?

  You can't really see it, so they must have had a bad shot.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  I like that when Riley finally breaks the big run, it's a draw play. So still, it was like the 6'2" stack monster kind of got fooled because it's not a conventional running play. I like that he also catches the ball on a screen. I'm just gonna rattle off like three more things I wrote down about what I love about the game. I love that the kickoff team is in three-point stances, like patently absurd, so dated. I like that the hike, the bikes are, the helmets, rather, are bike brand. I like the jerseys are Russell Athletic. Bill, you mentioned this. The best halfback in the state is a big chunky white boy wearing number 41. Steph's call on fourth and goal, when he's a safety, he goes, "Full house, full house, you fucking bastards!" And I was like, yeah, Steph.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  And then first snap of the game, first snap of the game, the lineman for Walnut Heights comes out and goes, "We're coming to your, coming after your ass, Riley." And Riley goes, "Do it, man. Make me happy." And I was like, that's great high school shit talk. That doesn't sound like someone who wrote a line who's a screenwriter. That's how dumb high school kids talk. I just really loved it.

• 52:50Bill Simmons?

  I gotta say, every football movie that's ever happened has the scene where somebody on offense taunts the guy that we like on defense in that way. "Coming for you, Craig. Bring it, man. I'm right here. I'm right here."

• 53:05Speaker 01

  In the program, the offensive lineman goes up, "We're running doggies to the end zone and the trail runs right over your ass." That's fake. No one talks like that in a football game. Right, but we're coming for your ass, Riley. Do it, man. Make me happy.

• 53:18Bill Simmons?

  Fuck you up, Kyle. Yeah, it's very, it's like six, six words or less. All right, Craig, we're coming back to you later. Locker room scene. Tough scene. I, I do wonder if more guys would have been crying after losing the biggest game of their lives. But Salvucci is the one that is really doing it. But in general, did you ever have a football game where you had a locker room that was that devastated after?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think pretty much every team, when they lose their last game in the playoffs. Because it's devastating because you're never gonna play the sport again. It's not basketball. It's not baseball. You never, ever put on pads again after your last game. You're done at 17. It's devastating.

• 53:58Bill Simmons?

  So Nickerson gets mad at Salvucci. Give it a good cry. Come on.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  So good.

• 54:05Bill Simmons?

  Cruz sticks up for Salvucci. They end up going at it. And I thought they both made some good points.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Who wins?

• 54:13Bill Simmons?

  It, it, it gets, it gets heated. Lines were crossed. But basically, Craig T. Nelson says, "If you would just practice what I taught you, we wouldn't have been down there in the first place." He's not wrong. And then he said, "If you just had Reifman hold on to the ball, we would have won." Also not wrong. But you don't say that in front of your 36 teammates. Kicks him off the team, won't let him on the bus. Tough times all the way around. Should Steph have stuck up for Salvucci?

• 54:44Speaker 01

  Absolutely. That was Steph being a leader. That was Steph, he was bullying Salvucci, like all over him. It was way over the line. And I thought what Steph did was awesome. And I love that moment that after Steph gets kicked off the team, he goes to Salvucci and they have a dap up. And it's like, that's like, that's my brother. I got you. Like Steph is a martyr then, but he's, that's, he's never been cooler than in that moment.

• 55:06Bill Simmons?

  Next question. Where's Brian Riley during all this?

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Great question. Beta, beta. I mean, Brian Riley's got a lot on his mind. He's got a pregnant girlfriend. Like, he's, he got worried about Salvucci. He's like, he's got other concerns.

• 55:17Bill Simmons?

  I needed a second guy to come in and back up Steph, like, yo, man, this is wrong, like layoffs. Vooch is one of our dudes. Nobody does that. It's basically just Steph only. The bigger question for me, it's beyond a nitpick, is why Nickerson handled the adversity this way in the locker room? How is this your response? Like, ah, give it a good cry. You choked. You quit. You quit on us. Like, who would coach this way in real life? I'm gonna say literally zero people.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Nickerson is furious at himself. And he knew he blew it and he had it and he choked. And so he's putting it on this helpless kid who he already knows is kind of a loser. So he has this terrible moment of bullying. And what's so great about that scene is it's, it's so well done. I love how they have Cruz sitting in the background by the squat rack against the wall. And you can tell before the scene started, they're like, let's give Tom a few minutes to get into character. And we're like, are we ready, Tom? And he like gives a little nod because he's full tears from the second he gets up. It's a great, powerful scene. I love how they shot it.

• 56:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, he pushed Salvucci toward a felony crime, is how this all played out.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Sure did.

• 56:24Bill Simmons?

  Armed robbery within, within a month. A couple more scenes quickly. The Pittsburgh Pub scene where they're talking about the game after, which Craig mentioned earlier. I could have spent another 10 minutes there. Bosco's holding court playing pool. They're basically doing a, like an emergency pod after the game. While the high beats amp pipe, shoot, thanks. The, Steph goes to apologize the next day and the coach shoots him down. You've played your last game.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 56:54Bill Simmons?

  You're really fucked. No, you are.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  You are. Great dialogue.

• 56:58Bill Simmons?

  Great stuff. Coach and, Coach and Steph on the street.

• 57:03Bill Simmons?

  When, when Steph gets mad at him, who in the hell gave you that power? You're just the coach. You're a high school football coach. You're not God. You're a typing teacher. Which I wrote down as the Billy Bats Jack Waltz Award for most biting and scalable insult.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Fucking awesome.

• 57:19Bill Simmons?

  You're a typing teacher.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Little clap. Yeah.

• 57:22Bill Simmons?

  And then the ending where Cruz finds out he's actually going to Cal Poly and we get, "Blue skies forever." Because they couldn't get Bob Seger. He just was like, I don't want to be in it. I'm not giving you any of my songs.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  They gave the, the Peter North Award to the soundtrack. Like, they really tried to bring it.

• 57:40Bill Simmons?

  They really tried.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  So much so that the, the credits, which you can't really see if you stream it, are bizarre. They lead with the soundtrack before Tom Cruise. It's so weird.

• 57:50Bill Simmons?

  What do you have for most rewatchable? It's a tough question because there's like three in the middle that are all.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, I'm never turning the Walnut Heights game off. I think it's the actual football. It's, it's really well done.

• 58:00Bill Simmons?

  I agree. Most 1983 thing about this movie, I could give you young Tom Cruise. I could give you virginity as a major plot point. I could give you the opening theme song. I could give you the production company. It was Lucille Ball Productions.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Fucking great.

• 58:16Bill Simmons?

  I think that's the winner unless you want to say unibrows. Because there's some fucking kicking old-school 80s unibrows in this movie that almost seem like a bit, but they're not.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  And when the unibrow is paired with the high school mustache, it's a fearsome duo. Like, it's multiple levels. But I, I mean, extreme, extreme deep cut. I, I sent this to you. On the bus ride to Walnut Heights, the guy who's in the back of the bus for Ampipe is wearing a cap that says Rick Mahorn on it and Beef Brothers. And I did a Google on the Beef Brothers with the Washington Bullets. That, that's fucking incredible. In, in the western Pennsylvania, Rick Mahorn, Jeff Ruland Beef Brothers hat is awesome.

• 58:58Bill Simmons?

  You know what? No NBA team. Who are we gonna like? What about the Beef Brothers? Rick Mahorn and Jeff Ruland. Yeah. The Celtics went against them in the 82 playoffs. That's when the Beef Brothers were born. They, they were, Johnny Most called them McNasty and McFilthy were his two nicknames for him. Yeah.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  Well, I looked it up and apparently there's been several episodes of the Beef Brothers pod. And I'm not making this up. Like, they got together and did some podding.

• 59:20Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow. I can't believe that wasn't pitched to us here on Spotify.

• 59:24Bill Simmons?

  The Tom Cruise Award for most valiant attempt to emulate a normal human goes to Tom Cruise.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  What do you got?

• 59:29Bill Simmons?

  Tom Cruise wins every time. We don't even need to elaborate. Each time he wins. This time he's playing a, play, what is he Slovenian or? No, he's Czechoslovakian?

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Serbian.

• 59:39Bill Simmons?

  Serbian. Serbian American cornerback. All right. The Floyd Gondoli Butter in My Ass, Lollipop's in My Mouth Award for something I just enjoy.

• 59:49Bill Simmons?

  So I think we have probably were in the vicinity of the same thing. For me, it's the football team in the locker room getting ready before a big game. It's bad at a thousand. I don't care how bad the football movie is. When this scene comes in before the game, it works every time. Any Given Sunday probably was the peak. But in general, it's a win every time. I just love it. I love the guys getting ready. There's always the guy hitting his head against a wall. There's guys getting taped up. Um, everybody's got their different process. I know you, you probably had a million of these.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Well, there's always the different characters. There's like the guy who's got the headphones on, who's like rapping really loudly along with it. There's the guy who's really nervous. There's the guy who's trying to be like, we got this, guys. They can't beat us.

• 1:00:36Bill Simmons?

  Right. Fake energy guy. Yeah.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Yes, all of that. But it's like, we love our scenes from Rambo and Commando of like getting their knives and weapons and their war paint. That's just this in high school.

• 1:00:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm getting ready montage. Yeah. What do you have for this?

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Um, I have.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  I wish I went to high school in the early eighties so fucking badly. There's a scene at the end where they're at this Christmas concert and they're in the school auditorium just ripping sips and beers. Like it's no problem. If I did that even in the nineties, I would have been suspended from school for even having that on school grounds. And they're like just killing beers and lit cigarettes and it's nothing. I love that.

• 1:01:16Bill Simmons?

  It's great stuff. Uh, all right. One more break and then we'll do what's aged the best.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

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• 1:02:20Bill Simmons?

  What's aged the best? I'll begin by offering you the Ampipe Bulldogs.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Ampipe, American Pipe and Steel.

• 1:02:29Bill Simmons?

  That's like you come up with that in the, when you're writing the script, you're just like.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:02:33Bill Simmons?

  Ampipe Bulldogs. Boom. They're gonna have a Bulldog mascot. Vinnie's Destrick has aged the best and the worst. I don't know where it came from. It's fucking insane. The, uh, I don't know if you caught this, but Brian, Brian, they get married. They're on the street. And Brian says for his honeymoon, they're going to Pittsburgh to a Penguins Flyers game.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  It's so great. How romantic. It's incredible.

• 1:03:00Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's not even a playoff game. It's just like in December.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  It's just some game. But hey, the Flyers are in town. Like you wanna go, honey? I got us tickets.

• 1:03:09Bill Simmons?

  It's gonna be a battle. You, you did all the eighties coaches football stuff, like the calling people ladies.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:03:17Bill Simmons?

  Craig T. Nelson becoming coach on TV. We have that. The poster?

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  Oh, let's see it. Oh, it's Cruz in the letter jacket. Yeah, it looks great.

• 1:03:27Bill Simmons?

  Great poster. You know, honestly, I was thinking about it for the studio. But it says on the top, he has everything at stake. He can't afford to lose. He's gotta make all the right moves.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:39Bill Simmons?

  That's in script. They're just banging you over the head with that one. Um, I have two more, but what'd you have?

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  I burned almost all of mine. I just, I, I got really nostalgic watching the pep rally. You know, you just, you say now, like, nobody on their phones, just living in the moment. Can you imagine how apathetic kids must be now to a pep rally when they're sitting there?

• 1:04:01Bill Simmons?

  They're not even going.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  They don't go, they don't have them. They don't give a shit. They're on their phones. Right. And I was thinking of the speeches that they gave, the coach even just being like, we're, we have a better football team. We're gonna win that game. Right now, that's instantly on Instagram and he like, the other team sees it and they would never talk like that because that would just not be a good idea.

• 1:04:20Bill Simmons?

  That's a good point.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  The, the pep rally made me like really nostalgic for those days. I love that a lot.

• 1:04:25Bill Simmons?

  We don't wanna win. We have to win.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  We have to win. I know.

• 1:04:29Bill Simmons?

  All right. My last two are, I think Bosco is incredible in this movie. He's evil Buddy Garrity.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Bill Simmons?

  Get tired of Polack pussy stuff? Just the worst guy ever. I don't know what his deal is, but he's just the perfect Western Pennsylvania Steelers fan, kind of a fucking asshole guy. I don't know where they found him. Nobody's gonna play this part.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  I'm gonna sink your battleship.

• 1:04:56Bill Simmons?

  You worked with him.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  I know this guy. His name's Jim Bosco.

• 1:04:58Bill Simmons?

  He's a soap opera guy, right?

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. He, he used to direct Days of Our Lives when I was on. He's a great dude. He would come on as the director.

• 1:05:04Bill Simmons?

  Just thinking, you hadn't seen All the Right Moves. You wouldn't have been.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  I didn't know Bosco. It wasn't a thing for me. So he was just this nice guy and he was like super affable. But I'd be lying there shirtless, doing love scenes and stuff. He'd be like, all right, lift your arm up a little bit and stroke her hair. But he was cool about it. I had a great experience with him.

• 1:05:20Bill Simmons?

  She's unbelievable in this movie. Here's the best, what's aged the best for this. Jennifer Warren's.

• 1:05:26Bill Simmons?

  I had no idea. And I feel like I'm on the higher end of dumb pop culture knowledge. I pride myself in it.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:32Bill Simmons?

  Holy shit. So she wins an Oscar in 1979 for a song that's in Norma Rae.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:05:40Bill Simmons?

  Haven't done Norma Rae in the rewatchables yet.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  No, not yet. When's that pod?

• 1:05:43Bill Simmons?

  She gets nominated in 81 for another song on Ragtime. So there's two. This is 79, 81. 82. Love lifts us up where we belong. She's the female in that with Joe Cocker, wins an Oscar and a Grammy and that song becomes a number one hit. She has the All the Right Moves theme song in 83.

• 1:06:06Bill Simmons?

  1985, Growing Pains theme song.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  Show me that smile again.

• 1:06:12Bill Simmons?

  Show me that smile.

• 1:06:15Bill Simmons?

  I would say that and Family Ties were probably the two best sitcom theme songs ever. Did anybody match those two? I don't think so.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Uh, Golden Girls is excellent. Thank you for being a friend. But Growing Pains is fucking metal. I love it.

• 1:06:30Bill Simmons?

  Obviously Jefferson's and Good Times are the two best ever, but if you're talking the eighties in the shadow of those two songs being the best ever.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  But what if I gave you?

• 1:06:42Bill Simmons?

  And What's Happening? But songs with lyrics? So anyway, she has that. And then it's like, I, I got nothing left. I've just been on a heater for six years. No, 1987, Dirty Dancing. Now I've had the time of my life. She's the girl in that song. That was an Oscar.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  This way before.

• 1:07:04Bill Simmons?

  That was an Oscar and a Grammy. She won three Oscars.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're, you're schooling me right. I didn't know anything about this.

• 1:07:10Bill Simmons?

  I thought her name was Jennifer Warren. I didn't even know it was Jennifer Warren's.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  If you asked me, who is the lady on Time of My Life? I would just say Jennifer Grey. I don't know who sings that.

• 1:07:19Bill Simmons?

  I didn't know either. I didn't know any of this. So anyway, she for nine years goes on in a pop culture heater. Three Oscars, two Grammys, multiple memorable moments, and Growing Pains.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  Fucking awesome. I just learned something, kids.

• 1:07:32Bill Simmons?

  Big Kuhnner Burger Award for best use of food and drink. Multiple flash shots. I just feel like the flask has gone out. No more, I don't feel like flasks are really, if somebody pulled out a flask now, you would just immediately assume they were a massive alcoholic.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, they would just have like zins in it or something. This is my gummy case.

• 1:07:50Bill Simmons?

  Like if you're doing First Take and during the break, somebody's like, hey, you wanna hit of this? You'd be like, oh my God, do I tell HR?

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  You mad dog? I don't mind if I do. Yes. Uh, my, my food and drink, um, they do a great job. They, they play quarters with, with the beer at the kegger at the end. And there's a lot of close ups of the beer. And I mean, I got to, I'm thinking back to you and your friends being in like eighth grade, watching that. It must've been so cool. I thought that was a great shot.

• 1:08:18Bill Simmons?

  We were like, someday we'll play quarters. And guess what? We did.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  Do it.

• 1:08:21Bill Simmons?

  And my wife and I were talking about this. Cause I'm sure they still play quarters now, maybe not the way we did.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:28Bill Simmons?

  We just weren't aware of germs or anything at all.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Didn't give a shit.

• 1:08:30Bill Simmons?

  In, in the late eighties. These quarters, we'd use the same quarter for four hours because nobody had a quarter. Everyone's touching it. It's bouncing in and out of beers. It's wet. It's going on the ground where our feet were. You're picking it back up, throwing it again. And then we wondered why everybody had bronchitis for the entire eighties. It's because we were disgusting in the eighties.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Playing quarters, let's play some beer pong where the ping pong ball rolls under this, the shelving.

• 1:08:57Bill Simmons?

  Under the couch.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Where there's rat traps back there and like, who knows what the fuck? And then you just pick it up and sometimes you'd have a little water cup.

• 1:09:04Bill Simmons?

  Should we wash that off?

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Right back to throwing it.

• 1:09:06Bill Simmons?

  Just disgusting. So gross. Dennis Thieves, Benihana Award, scene stealing location, any mill, coal mine, any of that with the, with the smoke coming up.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Sparks.

• 1:09:15Bill Simmons?

  That opening scene is really nice of, of the first mill. Uh, Great Jack Gorder we did. Chess Rockwell and Brock Lairs were our best character name.

• 1:09:27Bill Simmons?

  I really like Lisa Lettsky.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:30Bill Simmons?

  So not, that's usually somebody who's maybe not going to be the cute girl in a movie, but they're just like, this is-

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Oh, I see what you're saying.

• 1:09:39Bill Simmons?

  They really zag on it.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  Lisa Lettsky is like the best friend of the girl named like Taylor or-

• 1:09:43Bill Simmons?

  Lisa Lettsky is not a hot girl name in a movie, ever, but in this one, they're like, Lisa Lettsky, yeah.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Uh, it's a, it's a, I, it's a great point about that name, but the, you have a-

• 1:09:53Bill Simmons?

  Rifleman?

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Rifleman?

• 1:09:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 1:09:56Bill Simmons?

  When can that come back? Who could be Rifleman?

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  When the Seahawks had a fullback whose name was Max Strong, you're like, Jesus, you came out of the womb to be a fullback. Rifleman can't be a defensive tackle or a safety. It's only quarterback. Rifleman. Love it.

• 1:10:11Bill Simmons?

  Who would be Rifleman now? Maybe there is no Rifleman.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  No, I can't even think of a name that that cool. Not, I don't know.

• 1:10:18Bill Simmons?

  Uh, we have to bring back Craig.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Usain Bolt was the world's fastest man, you know? Not a chance.

• 1:10:22Bill Simmons?

  Who's Rifleman now? If we gave that name?

• 1:10:24Speaker 04

  Who has the best name now or who would we name Rifleman?

• 1:10:26Bill Simmons?

  Who would we name Rifleman where that could actually get away with it?

• 1:10:29Speaker 04

  It's gotta be some backup with an absolute cannon who just comes in and launches. Joe Milton? Joe Milton, yeah, who the Eagles just signed, right? Yeah, it's probably Joe Milton.

• 1:10:36Bill Simmons?

  So if Joe Milton's nickname was Rifleman, he probably wouldn't have been available on the waiver wire. They're like, oh my God, they got Rifleman?

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  But in the movie, Rifleman's not his nickname. It's his name.

• 1:10:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:47Bill Simmons?

  I think-

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  I didn't even know what his first name is.

• 1:10:48Bill Simmons?

  I think at some point they say his actual name, but they, everyone just calls him Rifleman.

• 1:10:52Speaker 04

  Oh, I thought his last name was Rifleman.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  No, I think it is.

• 1:10:56Bill Simmons?

  No, I don't think so.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  I think it's like Nate Rifleman.

• 1:11:01Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:11:03Bill Simmons?

  Is that Polish? What is that?

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  I'm not sure, but of course he's going to West Virginia.

• 1:11:08Bill Simmons?

  All right, Craig, we're coming back for your flex in a second. Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happyness Award, Best Needle Drop, The Bus Ride to Walnut High, we talked about that. Was there a better title for this movie?

• 1:11:19Bill Simmons?

  Would you have done something? Pittsburgh, like Last Chance or Getting Out?

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  This would have occurred to me.

• 1:11:26Bill Simmons?

  Getting Out with a, with a hyphen? I mean, with an apostrophe?

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Oh, they're right like-

• 1:11:31Bill Simmons?

  Getting Out, like losing it? Getting Out?

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  No, because Getting Out feels like a prison movie.

• 1:11:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  I just, it occurred to me when like, I'm like two thirds of the way through this movie and I was like, does Steph make any of the right moves in this movie? All the right moves, like he hasn't made a single thing. He kicked out the football team, he's lost the girl.

• 1:11:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  What the fuck?

• 1:11:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. All right, you have a flex. Did you do it?

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  No, I got it. No, I did my hot take.

• 1:11:54Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  All right, I have the, um, the Marion Cibretti Pizza Cutting Award. Why didn't anyone on set stop the star from doing this? But I'm not going Cruz.

• 1:12:03Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  I'm going Craig T. I, I, I can't sit here and watch a movie in which a high school football coach carries around a nine iron at practice. Absolutely not. I won't fucking do it. No, you took it too far. I know you're going for like some sort of character thing of authority or whatever, but like, you can't beat Hacksaw Jim Duggan is, has a two by four in the ring, like that.

• 1:12:23Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  There's no coach who walks around with a golf club that he never uses, never references for any point whatsoever.

• 1:12:29Bill Simmons?

  Phenomenal point.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Someone just said, Craig T, uh, I get it what you're going for. We gotta lose the golf club. It's distracting everybody. Nobody understands what the fuck you're doing. And I just can't be here for it. I don't like it.

• 1:12:39Bill Simmons?

  Even a baseball bat would have made more sense.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  Anything.

• 1:12:42Bill Simmons?

  Or a hockey stick.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  You can't go out there with a golf club. It's ridiculous.

• 1:12:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, we don't get to give out the Steven Seagal shitting on himself award for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot. That much, but we do get to give it out here.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  Oh, we got it?

• 1:12:54Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. Cause Leah Thompson enrolled undercover as Lisa Lettsky in a Johnstown, Pennsylvania high school, went to classes for four days. And pretended she was a transfer.

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 1:13:07Bill Simmons?

  She reports back that every single one of the girls wore identical wingbacked hair. That not one of them wore their hair naturally. She got into trouble for smoking cigs with three of the girls in the bathroom.

• 1:13:18Bill Simmons?

  And she found out that few of the kids wanted to leave after graduation. They all wanted to just stay in town. So it was actually productive. Cruz tried to go to school and within one day they recognized him from Taps and they had, they had to-

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:13:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I love this era though, because you can never do this now with the internet, but it's like my two lead stars, we're filming a movie here. Why don't you guys go undercover as high school students to get a feel for the, like, this could never happen now.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:13:43Bill Simmons?

  It's impossible.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  And I'm calling bullshit on Cruz. Like, I don't think he was that recognizable from Taps. I think he just was Tom Cruiseing the shit out of it. And he's probably at lunch and being like, hey, you guys on the football team? I play some ball. And they're like, what the fuck is with this guy? Like, who's the new kid? No way.

• 1:13:58Bill Simmons?

  Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. What do you have for this? I think I have a good one.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Well,

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  I could have used some more football. I could have used the second game. I, I really wish there was a football game in the third act and I, the Walnut Heights game is great. They kind of write themselves out of it because Steph's not on the team anymore.

• 1:14:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  But this, it's very, it usually have one game where like something goes wrong. Like think about, um, Varsity Blues. Like Lance Harbor gets hurt, you know, and then they have to come back from, but there's always the last game where they have redemption. And I was just kind of waiting for that in my muscle memory and we never got it.

• 1:14:34Bill Simmons?

  That was my backup for weak link of the film.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Bill Simmons?

  And I-

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  Another football game.

• 1:14:39Bill Simmons?

  I have it later in my thing. I'll do it now.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  What's the first string?

• 1:14:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, I'll do, I, I'll do my, this thing now, because you just did it. I think it should have been the second scene. We wake up with him. He's, does the thing. He looks out. He has the cereal. He goes to class. And I think that night is like a 38 to 10 blowout. It's the game before the game. And we get to see like all them in action, four minutes of football. They just kick somebody's ass.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:05Bill Simmons?

  And we get to see that this is a good team.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:15:08Bill Simmons?

  I honestly don't know why they did it. I think it's such a miss. Maybe, maybe they didn't have enough time in the shooting schedule. Maybe they were worried guys were going to get hurt. But it's so easy. And then we could have seen where they played their home field.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:15:20Bill Simmons?

  It's just a layup. I don't know why they didn't do it.

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  In any kind of movie where it's an adventure or cop or something, it's usually the first big success and you see that these guys kick ass.

• 1:15:29Bill Simmons?

  Totally.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  Then there's the setback and then the redemption. We didn't get the success or the redemption. The success would have been cool.

• 1:15:35Bill Simmons?

  How about this? Anyone listening, if you're in a football movie, we need two games, minimum.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:39Bill Simmons?

  It's a two game minimum thing, maybe even more. Any Given Sunday has like six.

• 1:15:43Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:15:43Bill Simmons?

  But-

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  And this one was so good. I just, I couldn't, watching it, Bill, like I was like, oh, I can't wait for this last game. And then you just never see it.

• 1:15:51Bill Simmons?

  My weak link was Bosco. I'm just trying to figure out what, what he, what he did.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  Let's go. What, what is he? You have theories?

• 1:15:59Bill Simmons?

  He's the team's biggest booster.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:03Bill Simmons?

  It seems like he works for the school.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:16:07Bill Simmons?

  He's also the town bad guy and he's a bully boozer. But he's on the coach's side because he's the MC of the pep rally, but then he trashes his house two days later. What the fuck was the deal with this guy?

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  I also think, I think he worked or was laid off from the steel mill because he gets really triggered when Steph insults the steel mill.

• 1:16:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  But you, to your point, you think he's just the booster who wears the suit or whatever. There's one random scene where he's walking down the hallway wearing an apron. Like he, he like works-

• 1:16:38Bill Simmons?

  So he's the high school chef?

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, the cafeteria.

• 1:16:41Bill Simmons?

  But he's also the head at, the MC of the pep rally?

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  In a three piece suit and he's the chef at the school? I, I don't know. I thought he was the principal for a while, but I'm like, no, no, no, no, he's not the fucking principal. I think you said Buddy Garrity earlier.

• 1:16:54Bill Simmons?

  He's evil Buddy Garrity.

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. He's evil Buddy Garrity, but also if Buddy worked in the cafeteria.

• 1:16:59Bill Simmons?

  He goes to the game, he's with his family.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:02Bill Simmons?

  Immediately after the game, he's at a pub bitching about Nickerson doing his emergency podcast.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  Should have, should have taken the safety.

• 1:17:08Bill Simmons?

  Then somehow they get in the car and they drive all the way to Nickerson's house. Like what, what was this guy's day like? I didn't understand it. What's age the worst? Cruz saying he's 5'10", number one. Coach's pregame speech with the racial slurs, number two. This, this, uh, oh, and Steph not playing both ways. We, I had that in my notes as well. The biggest one that I found was, uh, 2018, Thompson did not want to do the nude scene.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:34Bill Simmons?

  And initially the movie had two nude scenes.

• 1:17:38Bill Simmons?

  And she had already signed and, but they was like, we're going to need the nude scene because this is the eighties and this is how, uh, it would work back then. Cruz persuaded the producers to drop one of the two nude scenes, which I guess was in the car. And said, I'll go naked with you in the second one. Goes full, full naked Tom Cruise in the second one. Uh, when, when they, when they finally hook up and that's how they ended up getting their nude scene.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:04Bill Simmons?

  So it's a what's age the worst, but also it made me like Tom Cruise.

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. You, you watch this movie, you're going to get a quick pub shot of the biggest movie star of all time. You're not ready for that. But I, I mean, I have it even worse. To your point, I found this interview on YouTube with Michael Chapman, the director. It's rough. He's talking about casting Leah Thompson and he says like, well, we had to come in and there were the nude scenes. So the, we would have to, the actors would take their shirts off and we would examine it and the producer would have to sign off on their breasts. And he's saying this on camera. And so he's like, I'm a DP. I was so uncomfortable. I had to kind of leave the room. But I was like, Jesus Christ, in the early eighties, that's what they were having to do. And they were actually an inspection with a sign off? That's what the interview says. It's rough.

• 1:18:50Bill Simmons?

  That's a what's aged the triple worst.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's one of the worst.

• 1:18:53Bill Simmons?

  Did you have any or can we keep going?

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  I keep burned all mine. I keep, I've, I've got them all out.

• 1:18:58Bill Simmons?

  Ruffalo Hannah Rubenek Partridge Overacting Award. I have two nominees for you. I have Savucci in the scene you mentioned earlier, when they're for some reason smoking and drinking during-

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Fuck Christmas.

• 1:19:10Bill Simmons?

  Fuck school, man. Fuck Christmas. It's like, what's wrong with this guy? And then, but the winner is Brian telling Steph he's having a kid. Where he kind of tries to do the Tom Sizemore award, going toe to toe with the star.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  That's a good call.

• 1:19:25Bill Simmons?

  Say, I'm having a kid. Having a kid. And it's just really bad. It's, it's not Chris Penn's best work. I think he's a good actor.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Cruz is cruising. He's like, you, you talk to your recruiter at USC. They have married housing.

• 1:19:40Bill Simmons?

  I've heard about this. I've heard about-

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  Having a kid, Steph. It's tough.

• 1:19:45Bill Simmons?

  So I think those are the two winners. Okay. You did your hottest take. I'm going to do mine.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:51Bill Simmons?

  The CR Things Luke Wilson Award.

• 1:19:54Bill Simmons?

  Hair Support Hottest Take.

• 1:19:57Bill Simmons?

  Boy, did I mangle that, but you know what I meant?

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:00Bill Simmons?

  I think Rifleman, he uncorks two throws in this movie. I think he has not only the best throwing arm I've ever seen in a sports movie, and it's not even close. I think he might have the best throwing arm I've ever seen.

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  I'm with you.

• 1:20:13Bill Simmons?

  He has a throw, there's a behind him throw.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:20:16Bill Simmons?

  Where it's to the side. Craig, can you come on for this? He, he's, he uncorks it from back here, but the throw's perfect. He's on the run. And it's just a fucking cannon. It looks like it goes 50 yards. And then he has another one later to Leon. It's just perfect. It's like, it's like watching Ray Allen's jump shot or something. Did that jump out to you, Craig?

• 1:20:38Speaker 04

  Absolutely. It was like a Drake made deep ball, perfect spiral. It was remarkable. I can't believe they weren't throwing the ball more and that wasn't part of the game plan.

• 1:20:45Bill Simmons?

  Ah.

• 1:20:45Speaker 04

  I was trying to find this guy and I believe, this is like real half ass internet research. The guy who played Rifleman, or at least who threw that pass was Walter Briggs, who went on to have a short stint with the Jets.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:20:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh, so that had to be, he had to have been a real guy.

• 1:21:00Speaker 04

  Legit athlete.

• 1:21:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Does he have any other acting credits?

• 1:21:04Speaker 04

  Not a ton. Walter Briggs is his name. And he like played small college ball. And then was on like, it was the strike season. He was on the Jets.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:13Bill Simmons?

  Interesting. They were just like, look at this dude's arm. Can he call plays?

• 1:21:17Speaker 04

  They watched this movie. They're like, holy shit.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  No, you're talking about one where he rolls right and throws this beautiful bomb down the middle that is dropped and not caught.

• 1:21:26Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  But it's a gorgeous pass.

• 1:21:28Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to think who in the NFL had a better fucking just throwing motion result that I can remember. Cause I always loved Randall Cunningham's arm.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:37Bill Simmons?

  Um, but I guess it was a little unconventional to come out. Jeff George had a great one where it was just like efficient and it would come out like 120 miles an hour. But this kid is like, this is what you would want.

• 1:21:48Speaker 04

  Probably the best throw in a sports movie ever.

• 1:21:50Bill Simmons?

  I think it is. I, I really do.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  A lot of them, a lot of these movies, like the program, for example, when you have Craig Schiffer, they bring in a double and he does the throws. And for the tight shots, this guy, and then the second one, the touchdown, which is shot incredibly like tight spiral down into his hands.

• 1:22:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  It's the spiral is tight. It's like, Bill, you're thinking about the guys who just have the rifles, like Michael Vick's left-handed throw was so hard and the spiral was.

• 1:22:14Bill Simmons?

  And Elway, Elway was another one.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  Elway was obviously, and then I'll shout out to like the long wind up and delivery. Byron Leftwich used to have like the longest, almost baseball-like delivery.

• 1:22:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  And there was a lot of that going on in that one.

• 1:22:28Bill Simmons?

  Justin Herbert before he died. That's another one.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. R I P.

• 1:22:34Bill Simmons?

  Before the funeral. All right, Craig, get ready. I'm coming back to you.

• 1:22:37Speaker 04

  Can I do hottest take?

• 1:22:39Bill Simmons?

  Oh, let's go.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  What do you got?

• 1:22:41Bill Simmons?

  I forgot you had one.

• 1:22:43Speaker 04

  Is it even a hot take to say that Brian Riley 100% should have went to USC?

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  Okay, let's go.

• 1:22:49Speaker 04

  What are we, what are we talking?

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  He's having a baby.

• 1:22:51Speaker 04

  Bring the girlfriend with you. What is she doing? Have her come with you. Even if she has to like, have her drop out of school if she's a junior. To come with you to fucking Southern California, you're getting a full ride to USC to play linebacker? You, that, that will eventually hopefully be able to financially support his new child. Isn't he worse off by staying?

• 1:23:10Bill Simmons?

  These are great points. I thought the same thing.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Well, I have a feeling it would be able to financially support him immediately.

• 1:23:15Bill Simmons?

  Well, also, he's going to USC. They're gonna pay him under the table.

• 1:23:19Speaker 04

  Bring her. I just, I didn't understand why she can't just go with him.

• 1:23:22Bill Simmons?

  There's some booster that will give her some job. Oh yeah, she can be an assistant in my, my realtor firm.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  They'll pay them a huge envelope of cash. This is early eighties. They're all doing it. I, I think like the, the boring answer is like her family is there and her parents are there and that's her support system and she would never even entertain ever leaving. But Brian might be like, power move time, or Brian's family, guys, we're moving to Heritage Hall at USC. Let's go.

• 1:23:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:47Bill Simmons?

  I think he calls and says he has to turn down the offer. And they're like, okay, they think he's negotiating. They're like, okay, what, would 50K change your mind? How about 75? Like clearly you're making at least 25K to play linebacker at USC. So.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  How about this? He goes anyway. You know, she's, she's with her family, comes back and visits the kid. This is a USC scholarship. This is a big deal. He might go to the NFL. Like, I don't know.

• 1:24:15Bill Simmons?

  Craig, stay on, cause your flex is coming up anyway. Casting whatevs couldn't find anyway. Um, Joey Pants Award for Best That Guy. It's gotta be Bosco. I think Terry O'Quinn.

• 1:24:26Speaker 04

  Terry O'Quinn.

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  Terry O'Quinn is Terry O'Quinn. We know him too much.

• 1:24:28Bill Simmons?

  Terry O'Quinn, cause of Lost. Lost was a massive show.

• 1:24:31Speaker 04

  I was like, oh, that's John Locke, but yeah.

• 1:24:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And then, uh, Cruz's brother was a pretty big that guy.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  Oh, definitely.

• 1:24:39Bill Simmons?

  He's been in another movie, Craig, that we've done that, um, you had never seen before and is among the craziest movies we've ever done, the rewatchables. Hardcore with George C. Scott.

• 1:24:51Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Oh, I forgot you guys did that. Holy shit.

• 1:24:56Speaker 04

  Turn it off.

• 1:24:57Bill Simmons?

  Turn it off. Yeah. So he's in that. Dion Waiters, I could offer you Bosco. Bosco's buddy who says, with their, they asked, why didn't Nickerson, why did he? Why did he?

• 1:25:10Speaker 01

  Take the safety.

• 1:25:11Speaker 04

  Take the safety and punt it away. I'm like, great call.

• 1:25:13Bill Simmons?

  And Bosco's buddy goes, cause he's an asshole. I hate losing to these rich pricks. This is only line. Uh, Steph's dad with the punch.

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  All three of us loved the line about, why not take the safety? I was like, yeah, sure. That's a good point actually on caller two.

• 1:25:29Speaker 04

  That's never in movies.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Take the safety.

• 1:25:32Speaker 04

  He never includes stuff like that. Yeah.

• 1:25:34Bill Simmons?

  So I think the winner is Bosco unless you want to give it to Cam Scatabo and Walt that high. Just, just rip it after everybody.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  I loved trying to give to Scataboo. I wanted Salvucci in here, but he's in the movie, I think too much. Like he's just had too many scenes. How about Salvucci just mustering like a full tilt erection just by leaning back and thinking about it? Like what, what is that scene? What fucking scene? That is so strange.

• 1:25:58Bill Simmons?

  That's the early eighties. That's the decade Craig missed.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:26:02Bill Simmons?

  Recasting couch director city, ironically, I have Salvucci, cause I don't think we've ever seen that guy again. How about a little Matt Dillon here? We're right in Matt Dillon range. Matt Dillon is Salvucci. Let's ramp it up a little from a casting standpoint. Cruise when Nwana, cause it's a cruise vehicle.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  Fish and Coppola stuff, then he was big.

• 1:26:17Bill Simmons?

  But my big recasting stuff is the music. Um, I have some notes as a kid from this era. Car hookup scene has to be open eyes from Journey. Just has to.

• 1:26:30Bill Simmons?

  Party scene, Prince has to be in the party scene. That was peak.

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:26:34Bill Simmons?

  White guys in the middle of nowhere listening to Prince 1983. I think they're playing 1999 or something. And then I don't know where Bob Seger was in this movie. I don't know if he didn't like the script. He should have been in the diner. He could have been in the ending. I, I just, he's right there and I just don't know what happened.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Bill, can I give you one?

• 1:26:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:54Speaker 01

  Listen, we talked about the bus scene and how good it is.

• 1:26:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  How about? I can feel it coming in the air tonight.

• 1:27:02Bill Simmons?

  Is that song out yet? It is, right?

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  81 it comes out.

• 1:27:05Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  Beat Tubbs and Crockett to it. The scene's better. You beat, you beat him to it.

• 1:27:10Bill Simmons?

  Great. Tough for Doug Cahan, but I like it. All right, Craig, what's your flex?

• 1:27:15Speaker 04

  You flicked at it, but I want to do it again and, and narrow in on something. The Tom Cruise Award for the most valiant attempt to emulate a normal human.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  What do you got?

• 1:27:22Speaker 04

  I'm giving this to Tom Cruise.

• 1:27:25Speaker 04

  The scene where Steph and Nickerson are fighting in the street at the end of the movie.

• 1:27:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Speaker 04

  And they're yelling at each other. Cruise is like still clearly figuring out how to sprint on camera. It's been the weirdest running Cruz has ever done, where he does this like stop and start thing twice. It's like a guy figuring out how to drive stick and the car is stalling.

• 1:27:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:46Speaker 04

  Where he like sprints, stops, slaps his hands to his hips, sprints again, stops. No human has ever done that when they're angry in the history of time.

• 1:27:55Bill Simmons?

  He might've had like a sore calf.

• 1:27:57Speaker 04

  It was super weird. It was like he was running like 10 yard sprints and then stopping each time.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Craig, doesn't it feel like, like you're seeing greatness when it's young? Like the video of Tiger Woods with a golf club when he was a little kid?

• 1:28:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're like, ooh.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  That's gonna be the greatest.

• 1:28:11Speaker 04

  There's glances there, yeah.

• 1:28:14Bill Simmons?

  That was good. Craig, I'm bringing you back one more time for a specific spot near the end that you're gonna love. Half ass internet research.

• 1:28:21Bill Simmons?

  10,000 residents from this town were the extras and they gave them free soft drinks, hot dogs, raffle prizes, donations. Tom Cruise, minor concussion during the filming.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I bet.

• 1:28:33Bill Simmons?

  After we saw the, the, uh, they did not have the football specialist guy. Real life area coach, Donald A. Yanessa, played a football, played the other football coach in the movie and was the technical consultant. You mentioned the end credits and then, um, Pat Jordan told a story that the Lucille Ball production company bought the movie for 2,500, bought the rights, said they'd pay him 35,000 if it got made into a movie. So he got the 2,500. A couple of years later, some Pittsburgh guy who he had made friends with when he was whatever, reporting the story said, hey, they're making a movie in Duquesne. It sounds an awful lot like your movie. So he has his agent call and they're like, oh yeah, we,

• 1:29:16Bill Simmons?

  and he ended up getting the 35,000. They were just gonna stiff Pat Jordan who had the rights.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  We were just gonna call you. You were gonna call you.

• 1:29:22Bill Simmons?

  We didn't, did you change your number? So, so he ended up getting the 35,000. Apex Mountain, Tom Cruise, no. Chris Penn, no, but we're getting close with Footloose.

• 1:29:34Bill Simmons?

  Hot band geeks.

• 1:29:37Bill Simmons?

  It's her or American Pie, right? American Pie more famous.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:41Bill Simmons?

  And I don't know if she was a band geek. I don't know if Lisa Lettski's even a band geek. Pittsburgh Coal Mine Mill movies.

• 1:29:49Bill Simmons?

  Probably not.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  This is great.

• 1:29:51Bill Simmons?

  I think it's probably Deer Hunter.

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:55Bill Simmons?

  Deer Hunter won five Oscars. Craig T. Nelson, no. High school football movies.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  I asked that as well. High school football on screen. My personal apex, I, I, I think it's the Friday Night Lights TV show. Like Coach Eric Taylor, Kyle Chandler, Riggs, all that stuff. I've, I've never been more into it, but it's not terribly realistic. This is much more realistic.

• 1:30:18Bill Simmons?

  I think it's the Friday Night Lights movie.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  You like the movie?

• 1:30:20Bill Simmons?

  But I, I, I think they're in the finals against each other. And I think it's, I would change my mind depending on the week. My dad had an interesting take after he watched, he was like, huh. Pretty dated. That was his All the Right Moves thing, but he did enjoy it because he loves Cruise. Just the whole movie. He thought it was a little dated.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  It's over 40 years old.

• 1:30:39Bill Simmons?

  Leah Thompson, no. It's gotta be Back to the Future.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:44Bill Simmons?

  The 6-2 stack?

• 1:30:46Speaker 01

  6-2 stack monster.

• 1:30:48Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna say no. And Jennifer Warren's, obviously not, because she was fucking.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  Prolific.

• 1:30:53Bill Simmons?

  It's gotta be Dirty Dancing.

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  She's the Beatles.

• 1:30:55Bill Simmons?

  Cruise or Hanks? Cruise. Phoebe Cates Award excellence in putting teens through puberty, Leah Thompson. That was a not unimportant early eighties, uh, love scene for horny teenagers.

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  I was also gonna add that like. When we did Great Shot Gordo, I was like, I know I'm supposed to say the smoke stacks against the hills of Western Pennsylvania, but it's that fucking nipple to nipple shot. You know what? Tit to tit. Jan DeBanc was, I need the nipples.

• 1:31:23Bill Simmons?

  Yes, double nipples. More nipples.

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  He got right in there on those.

• 1:31:28Bill Simmons?

  The Clarence Worley should have died at the end award for biggest cop out of an ending. What if they zag and, and the coach offers him the scholarship and he's like, you know what, coach? Fuck off.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Fuck you, bitch.

• 1:31:38Bill Simmons?

  Fucking ruined my life. I'm staying here, I'm gonna work in the mill. And just, it just says, and he just skulks away. All right, picking nets.

• 1:31:48Bill Simmons?

  So Steph wants to be an engineer.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, electric engineer.

• 1:31:52Bill Simmons?

  He's rocking a B average and some outskirts of Pittsburgh High School. What engineering school was he getting into?

• 1:31:58Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:32:00Bill Simmons?

  Those engineers are pretty smart.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:03Bill Simmons?

  Like maybe like an A minus would have been better for an average or?

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  Also, why, like, why does he want to be an engineer? Like, where's that coming from? And why engineer of all the professions? They don't really back that up at all.

• 1:32:13Bill Simmons?

  My wife pointed out, they have this one thing when she comes over.

• 1:32:17Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Leah Thompson.

• 1:32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:18Bill Simmons?

  And he's got a bunch of drawings on the wall and she's like, you did these? And if you look, it's like the worst drawings.

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  Well, he's like, it's my underwater dome.

• 1:32:26Bill Simmons?

  Rudimentary, terrible engineering.

• 1:32:30Bill Simmons?

  Where are all the Pittsburgh accents?

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they don't do it. Don't do it.

• 1:32:33Bill Simmons?

  Shouldn't half of the characters have talked like Dave Damaschek in this movie?

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  Hey, yo, Bill, I gotta tell you, I listened to the rewatchables.

• 1:32:42Bill Simmons?

  Tammy Bradshaw should be our quarterback for life.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  But Bill, you know what? Best decision they made, because if they did it, we'd be sitting here making fun of how bad their accents are. So like, no, we're just gonna concede.

• 1:32:52Bill Simmons?

  And that's why I'm a hypocrite, because this is my Chris Hemsworth and black hat. Just use the Australian, use your Australian accent for this. You don't have to pretend you're from Chicago or Brooklyn. Uh, we hit all of the other ones, except I thought the brother needed a big speech to Steph. I thought he was waiting for his Oscar moment, they never gave it to him. Hey, man. You have stuff that I would kill to have, like one of those I would kill to be in the spot you're in.

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  If I had half your ability.

• 1:33:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:21Bill Simmons?

  I would, I would have done anything to be you. Basically the, the Chucky Goodwill Hunting to speech to Will Hunting.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  That guy is a, he's a pretty good actor. He's in a funny movie called Robot Jocks where he's the lead. And he has just that one scene where he's like, I laid off today, I'm gonna go shitfaced. And that's really all they get to chew it. But yeah, the Goodwill Hunting about if I ever see you back here, you know, it's, it's, it was missing. It maybe got cut.

• 1:33:44Bill Simmons?

  We did a bunch of nitpicks already. The only one, other one I had was that Chris Penn's girlfriend is just super pregnant. After, it's like, we found out, took her doctor, she's pregnant. A month later, she's like eight and a half months pregnant. So I had a feeling maybe he knew. Did you have it in your nitpicks or no?

• 1:34:00Speaker 01

  One thing drives me crazy at the end of this, at the end, after the, the wedding, they do the flasks you mentioned.

• 1:34:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  It's terrible. They're not drinking anything from the flask. Just watch it the next time. You can tell there's not a single drop of liquid in those flasks. It's bad.

• 1:34:12Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel, streamer, all but cast, spinoff, remake or untouchable. This, this is, I remember writing for Page Two in like 2002, being like, why is this a TV show? What are we doing? Let's just put this in Western Pennsylvania. Let's go. This would be four seasons.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  And they did it and it's Friday Night Lights.

• 1:34:29Bill Simmons?

  And they did it. They did it like five years later. Yeah.

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  I had, I had a thought. It's none of those sequel, prequel or anything. You know what this movie really needs? The, the ending is so abrupt and it's so short. This movie would kill with an Animal House style end credits where what happened to each person? You know what I'm saying? Like, it would be like Brian stayed home and became a high school football coach and had six kids.

• 1:34:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  You know, Vinny wound it up doing 20 years in prison. Steph lives in, I, it needs that and it needs, because we'd like to, we know these kids and we like them. What happened to them? Give us just like a brief little layout of where they go. I think that would have really ended the movie nicely.

• 1:35:05Bill Simmons?

  Rifleman won the Super Bowl in 1996.

• 1:35:07Speaker 01

  Yes, with his 90 yard hail Mary throw.

• 1:35:11Bill Simmons?

  Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Forest, Zane Lowe, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Dinkles, Ted Levine or someone else? I have a feeling I know where you're probably going here.

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  I don't know if you do, Bill. It's a funny thing. So, um, you know, Vinny gets the armed robbery.

• 1:35:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  And there was a scene originally where he doesn't want to do it. And he has to go to get out of it. He has to go to this local florist and he walks in there and the florist is like, no, you're doing the job. And Vinny's like, who the fuck do you think you are? The only guy in am pipe with a gun? And the florist looks at him and goes, you're gonna do this job for me? Or gonna, you're gonna see if your hard on can lift up desks with your nuts clipped? Like I clipped your brother and your uncle at the mill? You're not just gonna fumble this away like you did at Walnut Heights for your mommy? If there's an end zone, son, you're not in it. It's, it's, I know that's Chris Ryan's IP.

• 1:36:02Bill Simmons?

  Listen, Chris would love it.

• 1:36:05Bill Simmons?

  I have Stephen A. playing Steph apologizing the next day for what happened in the Walnut, Walnut High game.

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:36:15Bill Simmons?

  So things got a little heated last night. It's a tough loss.

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:36:20Bill Simmons?

  Devastating loss. And I need to apologize to Coach Nickerson.

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:36:26Bill Simmons?

  For what happened in the locker room. That's not me. That's not me. That's not my character. It was heated. We had a tough loss. I felt like I had to stick up for Salvucci. And I also want to apologize to his wife. And his young daughter for dumping trash on your lawn. Again, that's not me. So that's my Stephen A. apology.

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  Very moving. Very moving, Bill. I didn't see you had that in you. Very moving.

• 1:36:51Bill Simmons?

  Just one Oscar who gets it, obviously Jan DeBanc.

• 1:36:55Speaker 01

  For.

• 1:36:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he just, he wins.

• 1:36:57Speaker 01

  I need the nipple.

• 1:36:59Bill Simmons?

  Well, close up. I think he wins. Unanswerable questions. Salvucci's desk trick. How do you know you can do this? What's, are there?

• 1:37:13Bill Simmons?

  Are there maiden voyages for this? Like, what is this?

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  I think we lose track as adults well removed from that. That when you're that age, you just walk around with boners. Like you have them all the time. It's just, it's nothing. It's like you just, you have a boner, it's no big deal. You have 20 of them a day. And if you're sitting there bored in class, you also do really dumb shit. And he's probably like, hey, Steph, check this out. I can lift up the desk. And Steph's like, that's fucking hilarious. I think he's done that 20 times before. That's like his trick.

• 1:37:41Bill Simmons?

  So is, are we supposed to infer he has a huge dick?

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  Yes, and he's like extremely virile. All the above, yes. Yeah.

• 1:37:50Bill Simmons?

  All right, Craig, you need to come back in for this one last piece.

• 1:37:55Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:37:57Bill Simmons?

  Probably an answerable questions. I did this in a mailbag way back when. I'm just bringing it back. Is Tom Cruise a good athlete?

• 1:38:06Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna give you the pros and the cons.

• 1:38:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:09Bill Simmons?

  So this would be if you were making the case, he is a good athlete.

• 1:38:13Bill Simmons?

  In great shape. He's fucking ripped in All the Right Moves, like ripped. Believable that he would be a football player. When he runs in movies, other than the scene Craig mentioned earlier, when he's running like in a football thing, it's, he seems really athletic.

• 1:38:28Bill Simmons?

  And I think he was a convincing quarter, cornerback for the most part, except for the stance before, huh, huh, whatever he was doing. In The Outsiders, he does that crazy flip off the railing where he looks like a mid eighties Olympics gymnast. Volleyball scene in Top Gun, pretty convincing.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:38:47Bill Simmons?

  Boxing scenes, no, you're going, not convincing, Craig?

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I say yes, Craig. Did you, I said yes.

• 1:38:52Bill Simmons?

  Craig?

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  I like the volleyball.

• 1:38:53Bill Simmons?

  Volleyball, no?

• 1:38:55Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't think it's, I, I, I'm not confusing him for a college volleyball player.

• 1:38:58Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Boxing scenes in Far and Away, pool scenes, color money. Juggling bottles and cocktail, clearly like you have some hand eye. And then, uh, gotta be honest, his softball line drives in Few Good Men were pretty good. Some mustard on those grounders and, uh, and fly balls. All right, the counters.

• 1:39:20Bill Simmons?

  Stunt double for the football scenes at all? Could you see anything? That made it seem like it might have been some else? I don't think so. Okay.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  I don't think so. I think it's him.

• 1:39:29Bill Simmons?

  They threw the ball right at him so he could catch it. It's a red flag. Top Gun volleyball scene edited really heavily.

• 1:39:37Bill Simmons?

  Basketball scene with cocktail, in Cocktail with Coughlin. Awful, terrible shooting for him. Looked like he'd never touched a basketball. War of the Worlds, the famous baseball throw.

• 1:39:47Speaker 01

  The baseball, yeah.

• 1:39:48Bill Simmons?

  And throwing Goose's dog tags in Top Gun.

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  Rough.

• 1:39:53Bill Simmons?

  I didn't like that either.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:39:55Bill Simmons?

  So that's, I'm giving you the evidence of both sides. So you guys tell me, was Tom Cruise a good athlete?

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  Craig?

• 1:40:01Speaker 04

  I think the answer is no. I, on the actor's scale, he's probably like a seven or an eight. But anytime you see him do like a real specific skill, a throw, a catch, it's not great. He's an effort guy and he'll try his hardest. And that communicates like the running, the jumping, the pushups. All that looks good, but when he has to like do one specific skill that requires like hand eye, it's not great.

• 1:40:26Speaker 01

  It's in the, it's in the details. I, I think the fine, I don't think he'd be a good tennis player. I don't think he'd be a good golfer. I don't know if you've ever seen him golf in a movie, but the physical stuff, the fighting and wrestling. In Magnolia, when he's Frank TJ Mackie, he's giving the interview. He takes off his shirt and does this like thing where he goes into a handstand and puts his legs up on the wall. And it's very impressive athletically. I think in the contact and physicality sports, I think he is gifted and aggressive. I do.

• 1:40:51Bill Simmons?

  So you think he could have been in Vision Quest in the Matthew Modine part and been really good?

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  Hell yes. Definitely.

• 1:40:57Speaker 04

  And you should, I should also say, the Color of Money one-shot pool cue thing is extremely impressive.

• 1:41:03Bill Simmons?

  So I'm gonna say, hey, he's fast.

• 1:41:06Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:41:07Bill Simmons?

  For an actor and good hand eye. But I'm not sure, I'm, I'm not sure he played any sports in the first 18 years of his life would be my guess.

• 1:41:16Speaker 04

  Like there are just people you could, like Sandlot, Benny the Jet. You're just like, that kid's athletic. I don't feel that way when I watch Tom Cruise.

• 1:41:23Bill Simmons?

  That's a good way to put it.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  I think the most important piece of evidence that you brought up, Bill. I think it is very difficult to look natural hitting balls in softball. When you throw up the ball, then put your hands back on the bat and make contact squarely. Like that's hard to do. And he, he's doing that while he's delivering Sorkin dialogue. Like I, I think he looks very natural doing that.

• 1:41:44Bill Simmons?

  Craig, stand for the end because you're coming up in a second. Memorabilia you'd most want from this movie? I can give you Ampap, Ampipe jacket, letter jacket, Ampipe hat. I can give you the coach's windbreaker, which is pretty cool. I can give you any uniform from the movie. What are you taking?

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  I'll take no uniform. I'll take Steph's neck roll all day long. She'd be in the Smithsonian. Give me the neck roll.

• 1:42:05Bill Simmons?

  Okay. You wouldn't want his engineering drawings?

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  No, I'm, I'm good on those. I can draw Metallica logos by myself and 3D shapes.

• 1:42:11Bill Simmons?

  Craig, what do you have?

• 1:42:12Speaker 04

  An Ampipe hat? If I could get one of those right now, my God.

• 1:42:16Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to think what would be the best for the studio and it's clearly the Ampipe hat.

• 1:42:20Speaker 04

  I mean, just the name Ampipe is unbelievable.

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  Ampipe's so cool.

• 1:42:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  American pipe.

• 1:42:24Bill Simmons?

  Riffleman's uniform would probably be my, my choice unless you want to go with the Walnut High running back. Like it's 41, that guy was the best running back in the state. Couldn't tackle him. Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi were best, worst life lesson. Don't go at your coach in the locker room after a devastating loss. Let everyone cool off. Nothing good's gonna happen.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  How about don't hand it off to the felon inside the one yard line when you're trying to end the game?

• 1:42:45Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:42:45Speaker 04

  Use a condom, maybe?

• 1:42:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:49Speaker 01

  Pull out?

• 1:42:51Bill Simmons?

  Pull out weapon? Best double feature choice? I'm going triple feature. I think you go All the Right Moves. I think you do Varsity Blues. And then I think you finish it off with Friday Night Lights. And I think you're done in five and a half hours. And I think it's a great night.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  It's a great run. I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep the Leah Thompson going. I'm gonna knock out a couple of episodes of Carolina in the City.

• 1:43:11Bill Simmons?

  She's going to go it.

• 1:43:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like her.

• 1:43:14Bill Simmons?

  And then who won the movie? Tom Cruise.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise.

• 1:43:17Bill Simmons?

  Craig, you'd never seen it. What were your thoughts?

• 1:43:22Speaker 04

  You know, it's a coming of age sports story with very little sports. And I gotta say, it works. Like the reason they don't make movies like this anymore is because they would just be seen as too small, like too boring. These movies are so funny because like 40 years later, there are so many things that movies like this do that like are the opposite of what you're told to do now. Like the beginning of this movie is four minutes of silence of just a full song playing. And you're just watching a guy like get ready in the morning.

• 1:43:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:50Speaker 04

  Like in a modern movie, four minutes in, you need to have like two fight scenes already. And like three characters need to die. And he's just like putting deodorant on and you're four minutes into the movie.

• 1:43:59Bill Simmons?

  Eating cereal.

• 1:44:01Speaker 04

  But I think we're all sports movie shy and this movie does. Like when they're good, it's when the football is like real. And it's like actually guys playing football and you don't really have to cut out of it. Like there's just wide shots of lines hitting each other. Like the interception scene, I kind of got chills during the interception scene. I actually thought there should have been a little more there. They could have, I wanted some slow mo, some like music. They kind of just get right through that. But the football's pretty good. And I think this movie's like weirdly mature. I don't know, the like high school, college, I'm about to move on. Do I stay with my high school or college girlfriend or boyfriend? And like that decision, it's weirdly mature. So like, yeah, this movie's, you know, kind of corny and there's some bad lines here and there. But yeah, in a bizarre 80's sex scene, once again, what's up?

• 1:44:46Bill Simmons?

  We just, we couldn't unlock it in the 80's. I don't know what we were doing wrong.

• 1:44:49Speaker 01

  What was the problem, Craig?

• 1:44:51Speaker 04

  I'm not gonna, I'm not doing the Jamie Lee Curtis like inappropriate. Because like, sure, if you wanted in the movie, you think it makes sense, it's fine. And like the losing of virginity is fine. It's like, but the way they film it, why does it have to be the most like awkward, clunky, full frame, two boobs for five straight seconds, nipples touching? Like you can, it's not even sexy. It's just like in your face and kind of flat. And I don't know why the sex scenes aren't sexier.

• 1:45:18Bill Simmons?

  Every time you see these 80's sex scenes, it always feels like the actress is like, my agent told me I couldn't get out of this.

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 1:45:27Bill Simmons?

  It's the opposite of sexy. You feel bad for everyone involved.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  Bill, when I was watching, I was watching that scene. I just, I immediately Googled, how old was Leah Thompson when they shot All the Right Moves? Cause I was like, should I be not watching this? This feels like maybe I'm doing something wrong.

• 1:45:40Speaker 04

  Well, and then of course, like of course, after the scene, she's like, well, I'm a junior, as you know.

• 1:45:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's like 16 maybe.

• 1:45:47Bill Simmons?

  And then it cuts right to her in church.

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:52Speaker 04

  Which I don't think is, that's not accidental. Cause you, he puts the cross in his hand, a necklace cross, puts that in his pocket. And the next scene's at church. But I just love that it's like, I was like, oh, maybe it'll be like a side profile and they'll be laying on top. And it's like, no, there's just gonna be a cut to just two breasts in your face. It's, it's a remarkable time.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  Craig, you seen Digger this weekend?

• 1:46:12Speaker 04

  I saw it.

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  What is it like?

• 1:46:15Speaker 04

  It's, it's like one of the weirdest movies you'll see all year. I don't, it's not bad. It's just extremely not commercial. It is like a true art house. It's like Birdman, but about, it's like Birdman and Don't Look Up had a baby.

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:46:31Bill Simmons?

  Jesus.

• 1:46:32Speaker 04

  Okay. But Cruise is good in it. There's a great Cruise Parliament scene where he's awesome. He's very good. He like plays different characters in it. Kind of it's, he's great. He's still got it.

• 1:46:42Bill Simmons?

  What do you think Cruise's 20th rewatchables movie is gonna be?

• 1:46:46Speaker 04

  Have we done 19?

• 1:46:47Bill Simmons?

  We've done 19 movies.

• 1:46:49Speaker 04

  What's the best Cruise movie we haven't done?

• 1:46:51Bill Simmons?

  I'll give you movies. We have some MIs left. We have Veggie Tomorrow left. We have Jack Reacher left. We have, uh, War of the Worlds is still left, I think.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  Last Samurai?

• 1:47:05Bill Simmons?

  Last Samurai is left. It might stay left. Do I need to check in with that again?

• 1:47:11Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, maybe. Yeah.

• 1:47:13Speaker 04

  We've never done Vanilla Sky?

• 1:47:16Bill Simmons?

  Never done Vanilla Sky. That's another one. We've done basically everything from the first 15 years of his career that you'd want to do. Cause I don't think, I like Born on the Fourth of July, but I do not think it's a.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  That's tough.

• 1:47:26Bill Simmons?

  It's a rewatchable. It's a tough hang.

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  I have to end with a story. A couple of days ago, I, I was interviewing Joe Manganiello, the actor who's on a book tour right now.

• 1:47:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  He comes up to me and I was like, Joe, how you doing? He's like, dude, we just gotta talk about the rewatchables.

• 1:47:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:47:43Speaker 01

  He's like, I fucking love it. And I was like, wow, that's great. He goes, there's not DVD commentary anymore. That podcast is like the best thing that there is. He's talking to me about it after the interview. He brings it up during the interview on TV when I'm like asking him about his marriage to Sofia Vergara. And he's like, well, you know, Kyle, you're on the rewatchables. And I was like, dude, that's not the same thing. All he wanted to talk about, and I go to him, this is what like a huge nerd for he is. I go, so what would be like your dream episode? And he goes, Van Damme Cyborg. And I was like, what? Cyborg? Cyborg's awesome. I fucking love that movie. So he's like a huge fan of the show.

• 1:48:20Bill Simmons?

  Cyborg? I don't.

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:22Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if I've even.

• 1:48:22Speaker 01

  It's like a deep Van Damme, it's a great movie, but of all the things he said, Cyborg.

• 1:48:27Bill Simmons?

  Well, Kyle Brandt, the most important thing is that we finally broke the seal of me basically begging you to watch a movie you weren't familiar with, and then you throwing yourself into it. So now I feel like.

• 1:48:37Speaker 01

  We're best friends now.

• 1:48:38Bill Simmons?

  Now I feel like this is open.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  All the Right Moves and I are on text chains that like you're not even on with us. Like we're like, we're huge friends now. Thank you so much. I know, we have one with you, but we have our own one now.

• 1:48:47Bill Simmons?

  Right. That's excellent. Kyle Brandt, thank you. Craig, thank you. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo and Jack and everybody else at Spotify. We'll see you next week on the rewatchables.

• 1:49:07Speaker 03

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