#2531 - Forrest Galante

Forrest Galante is an international wildlife adventurer, conservationist, and author. His new special, "Alien Sharks: Untamed America," premieres July 29 as part of Discovery Channel's annual "Shark Week" programming block.www.discovery.com/shark-weekwww.patreon.com/cw/ForrestGalantewww.youtube.com/@ForrestGalantewww.forrestgalante.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/rogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 02

  My friend.

• 0:13Speaker 03

  Joe, what's good to see you, man?

• 0:15Speaker 02

  Bro, it's good to see you. So, I've been sending you stuff, because like, we've been, I knew that you were coming on. And I sent you that one, that video of the guy who got a trail cam photo of a black panther.

• 0:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 0:26Speaker 02

  So is that just a melanistic mountain lion? Like, what is that?

• 0:31Speaker 03

  It's a great question. There's never been a melanistic mountain lion. Nobody's ever seen one, ever. Never hit one with a car, never born one in captivity, nothing.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 0:39Speaker 03

  So, mountain lions, by definition, pumas, you know, whatever you want to call them, there's never been a black one, ever. But every year, I mean, I got a buddy in Florida swears blind that he's seen a black mountain lion in his backyard. And yet, that photo that you sent me? That photo circulates like, once every three years.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  It's bullshit?

• 1:00Speaker 03

  It's bullshit. It's a real photo, but it's a trail cam photo. Oh, it wasn't this one, but...

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Well, that's, I think that's the first one, and then there's another one with the cat gets like, right up to the lens.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  That one.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, that one.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  So, that photo is a real, I want to say jaguar, it's hard to tell, but either jaguar or black leopard, both of which are, do become melanistic.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:20Speaker 03

  And you can tell that, because you can see the spots, barely, like the rosettes. So, all these melanistic cats, like, like jags and leopards and things that do get melanistic, they still have those rosettes under the black coat.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, so not a mountain lion.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Wow, too bad.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  I know, it's such a bummer. One day, if somebody finds one, that'll be like, a huge thing scientifically.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  But isn't that funny, that we want it to be different? Because just a mountain lion itself is amazing. I mean, if they were all black, and there was like, a tanned mountain lion, be like, somebody saw a tanned mountain lion.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  A hundred percent. It's like, whatever's different and rare, is what people just are like, I want that one thing.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  I've always said that about Bigfoot.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  The Bigfoot is kind of interesting, but not as interesting as an orca.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  Like, we have gorillas that are cooler than Bigfoots.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Well, orcas in particular, because they have languages that we can't decipher.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Languages, specialized diets, some kind, do you know, I'm sure you know, all this. Can't even talk to each other.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's unbelievable. Like, it's the same as if you or I went to India or Africa.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:18Speaker 03

  It's like, we can't communicate, we don't eat the same food.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Nuts.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  We look different.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Nuts.

• 2:21Speaker 03

  And yet, to us, an orca is an orca.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  And it's super smart, and huge brains, and don't kill people for some strange reason.

• 2:28Speaker 03

  Ever.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Except, when they're in captivity.

• 2:30Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah. Which is so crazy. I did a thing in Baja, Mexico, maybe three years ago, where we were just cruising on this little ponga, this little fishing boat, and we saw these orcas go by. And now, people seem to be doing it a lot, but at the time, it was like, nobody had really just tried this. And this was a transient population, which means they primarily eat seals and sea lions, not the stingray eaters. And so, we were like, fuck it, let's just go. And we like, ran the boat up ahead and jumped in, and the orcas came up, and the bull never came out. So, you know the bull has a huge fin, like, he's the biggest, like, the dominant protector of the pod. But the cows and their babies came up, and the boat like, drifted away, and me and my buddy Mike, and they just circled us, like, just looking at us with their big eyeballs.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  And it was me to you, from orcas. And they, they did like, two, two circles around us, like, what are these things? Then we're just like, meh, boring, and kept swimming.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  They, they must know, right? If they're that intelligent, and they have language, and they communicate, they must know that, what, what a person is, right?

• 3:28Speaker 03

  I think...

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Like, look at this.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  Oh dude, I saw the guy that filmed this, this is so crazy.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Orca headbutts a sunfish, so hard it explodes.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Boom, turns into pieces. So, this is a newly documented behavior. Just in the last, maybe six months, they've found that orcas will literally explode fish from impact, whether it's a game or what, but they're, they're finding that, this is not the first time this is, they're doing this. They're starting to just explode these fish on impact, just because.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  How are they doing that? Like, how, how fast are they going?

• 4:00Speaker 03

  I do not know the answer to that, but it's impressive.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  I would have never imagined that that would actually be possible, right? Like, how fast can you...

• 4:07Speaker 03

  I'm trying, like, what does the starfish look, is like, flat, like a stingray? A sunfish, it's like a mola mola, those ocean sunfish with the big goofy fins.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  They're pretty huge.

• 4:15Speaker 03

  They get huge.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Some of them are huge.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  600 pounds, they get huge. It's funny...

• 4:18Speaker 02

  How do they literally turn to dust?

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Dude, I think, I think those are the orca equivalents of like, a redneck that wants to hit a turtle on the road, and they're just like, we're bored, let's explode it.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Or those guys that do that, have you seen that game, well, it's not a game, but it's, I guess, whatever it is, an activity where these guys just run at each other full blast?

• 4:35Speaker 03

  Dude, RNC, Run Nation?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Is that what it is?

• 4:38Speaker 03

  I fucking love that.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  You do?

• 4:40Speaker 03

  It's one of my favorite things, I'm such a huge fan.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  How could you love that?

• 4:42Speaker 03

  I love it, dude, because I play rugby, so, it's rugby boys that are doing it, right? It's like an Oklahoma drill, except for rugby guys. And that's a drill that, when I was playing rugby, we used to do all the time.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  You just run at each other?

• 4:52Speaker 03

  You just run at, it's my favorite, Run Nation, RNC, it's my favorite thing. I watch every video. Look at these guys.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  I would have never, they both just went unconscious.

• 5:01Speaker 03

  Look at that.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  They both went, oh, that guy's, that guy's fine.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  I'm such a fan.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  But I've seen it where they both get unconscious.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  I want to bring these guys to the US, and see how they stack up against like, NFL linebackers.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Oh, Jesus Christ, they both headbutted each other, dude.

• 5:15Speaker 03

  Dude, you love fight sports, what are you talking about?

• 5:17Speaker 02

  This is not a fight sport, this is just retarded.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  I'm such a fan.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Oh, that's so silly.

• 5:22Speaker 03

  I don't want to do it, to be clear.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  That you like that. I know too much about brain damage, and you should too, if you like rugby.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  I've had too much brain damage to know too much about, no, I'm just kidding, but...

• 5:34Speaker 02

  How long did you play rugby for?

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Well, I grew up in Zimbabwe, and so like, southern Africa rugby is life, right? So, it's like, probably deep south football kind of culture. So, I still play, believe it or not, except now, I play very intermittently, because one game puts me out for weeks at a time.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  Have you ever got your brain examined?

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Uh, no, I have not.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  I guarantee you.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  But I've only had one concussion in my life, so I think I'm okay.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Oh, that's silly. Because you guarantee you have subconcussive trauma.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  What is subconcussive trauma?

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Well, you, where you don't go unconscious, but you get rattled, and then you have some brain damage.

• 6:08Speaker 03

  You're probably right.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, soccer players get it.

• 6:11Speaker 03

  Really?

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, soccer players get, yeah. Chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Yeah, that's, soccer players get it.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  I did not know that.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  From heading the ball.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  So, is that, and you know a lot about UFC, is that brain trauma worse than UFC-type trauma?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Well, it's all brain trauma.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  And it's dependent upon many factors. It's dependent upon how many times you've been hit, and also, there's a gene variation. It's APOE4, is that what it is?

• 6:38Speaker 03

  I think so, yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  If you have this one particular gene, it makes you more susceptible to CTE for some strange reason.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  So, like, because a concussion is when your brain sort of impacts against your skull, is that right?

• 6:53Speaker 02

  There's that, and, I mean, I think it's also, it's not just that, it's like, if you get hit in the neck, you can get a concussion.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Really?

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Also, yeah, also, a lot of people don't realize, you can get a concussion from getting hit in the body.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Really? How does that work?

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Because you get rattled, yeah. Also, another group of people that seem to get CTE are people who ride jet skis.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  So, how does that work?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Well, my friend Mark Gordon, he's a doctor who specializes in traumatic brain injuries, and treating football players, soldiers, and he's treated some fighters as well. He said that any repeated stress, any banging, anything like that, head banging, like, if you're fucking, head banging?

• 7:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Like, you're probably going to get brain damage.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  No way.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, legitimate brain damage.

• 7:41Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Like, I can't remember what I was doing five seconds ago.

• 7:44Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Where's my keys? I forget what I'm talking about mid-sentence.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Dude, you're scaring me here.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Hey, be scared.

• 7:49Speaker 03

  These are all things I enjoy doing.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Well, sure, I enjoy running straight at people, full blast. Yeah, I just, like, those guys are animals, they're tough guys, no doubt about it.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  And those Pacific Islanders, like, because those are the guys that are doing it primarily, right? Like, they play rugby league and stuff, they're built different, man.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Like, they're so hard, it's insane.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Do you remember David Tua?

• 8:08Speaker 03

  No, I'm not familiar with him.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  David Tua was a heavyweight boxer, back in the day, who was like, one of the most ferocious guys that ever fought in boxing. And it just, just built like, like, your prototypical island warrior guy.

• 8:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  Just, that's David Tua.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean...

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Just a tank.

• 8:27Speaker 03

  You don't want to run it at that guy, I'm telling you what.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, just a monster. Knocked people out, and he knocked out John Ruiz, like, famously in the first round, in like, something like 30 seconds or something like that, it was crazy.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  Different breed, man.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  Crazy left hook, yeah, that, that kind of guy. I mean, we've had a bunch, Mark Hunt, who's a famous kickboxer, who's another guy, built like that.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Just, just wide as a fucking barn.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  There's like, no waist, it's just like a brick.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Solid as a rock.

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  Again, playing rugby, I played rugby against guys like that, and it was the worst.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Well, those are the dudes that had the balls to get in a little tiny boat and make it across the fucking ocean.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  And then kick your ass.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  That's what it is, really. I mean, you think about it, like, only the super robust survived.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 9:10Speaker 02

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• 11:45Speaker 03

  Absolute natural selection. It's similar to the African Americans that we have in North America. Like, those are the strongest, best guys that came over here. Right? And that's why they're all the most incredible athletes. I don't know about all, but you know what I mean. Yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know what you're saying. Yeah. This, I mean, it's, and also, like, when you look at, like, guys from Iceland, the strongmen. Yeah. So, how many strongmen are from Iceland? Well, how many fucking Vikings are from Iceland? Like, legit. Yeah. Right. It's weird when you think about it, that, like, nature finds its way.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  It's the same thing. It's like, we think we're so different and above, like, animals and stuff. It's natural selection. We just bring the biggest, the best, and the strongest into some area, whether that's Vikings colonizing Iceland, or, or the Samoans on their islands, or whatever it happens to be. And you're just like, well, here's a superior population, because we, all the biggest, best, and strongest have made it, and all of the weakest have died off.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Isn't that weird? Like, you as a guy who studies wildlife biology, isn't it weird that we want to think of ourselves as being a different thing? Like, we are clearly not...

• 12:43Speaker 03

  We're not. We're not even at the top. That's the thing that people never understand. Intellectually, we are, obviously. Look at what we've built. But, like, we're not even, we don't even sit at the top of the food chain.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  But we kind of do, because we kill everything else if we want to.

• 12:56Speaker 03

  Well, because of our brains.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, not even our brains, really. It's other people's brains that invented guns. It's like, it has nothing to do with you and me. True. No, not us. That's what's interesting. It's like, our brains are our evolutionary advantage. It transfers over to people that don't have good genetics. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because you could be built like a bag of shit, like, a literal bag of shit, and you can kill a grizzly bear with a rifle.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Kind of nuts. Right?

• 13:21Speaker 03

  Yep. It's crazy.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  You can just be sitting there on a ridge, like, with a scope, and boom, and you kill a 1,200-pound Kodiak brown bear.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  Because all of our biological energy goes into this thing, instead of being physically big, or intimidating, or any of those other things.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Also, we can transfer what we've figured out onto other people, which is, no other animals ever figured out how to do that.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  Nope. Isn't that crazy?

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Wild. Yeah. It's really wild. Yep. It's, when you think about it, it's like, what, if you were studying us, if you were coming from another planet, and you were studying us, you'd be like, wow, this one animal is fucking weird. Yeah. And this one, this one's doing something different.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  But they would still look at us and go, oh, well, they're definitely animals. Like, look at them.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. If you looked at the Earth from an Earth shot, you'd look at what we've done and be like, this is the top animal, but they're parasitic and colonizing the whole planet and changing things and manipulating things, whereas all the other animals are just getting by.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. If we found out that there were, were actual visiting aliens, that there was actual intelligent life from somewhere else visiting us, I think there, a lot of us would probably be like, why didn't you help?

• 14:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Why didn't you come along and say, hey, cut the shit?

• 14:36Speaker 03

  It reminds me of the, I don't know, did you watch, did you watch South Park ever?

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:40Speaker 03

  There was an old South Park episode where Earth was like a reality show. And it's like, let's see who's getting along this week. The zebras are fighting with the giraffes, and the people are doing this. And it's like, it's like, we're just like a reality show for the universe, where you just put a bunch of species. We're like a Big Brother situation.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Well, we are kind of that for us.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  Oh, totally.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  We are, that's what a reality show is. A reality show for us is the world.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  You know, Lindsey Graham, did he die in a rocket accident? Or did he die, was he poisoned by Russia? Let's tune in to Twitter and find out. You know what I mean?

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Exactly, man. It's hilarious.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  We are, we are locked in on whatever the fuck is happening all over the world all at once. And that's one of the weird things about social media now, is that we're constantly being inundated with new things to occupy our attention. You know?

• 15:28Speaker 03

  And we have no attention span to watch anything for more than five seconds.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  But yet, at the same time, this is the rise of podcasts.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. Which are long form.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Right. So, it's clear that that's not really the case with everybody. There's enough people that are interested in actual fascinating things and have an attention span. It's just like, we're all susceptible to the, the brain rot that comes with just scrolling.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  It's so hard not, like, I've tried to make conscious decisions, because, you know, you can imagine what my Instagram feed looks like, right? It's animal after animal, half of it's AI now, whatever. And I still try and make a conscious decision to not look at it, and I find myself just reaching for my phone and doing this. It's just, we're wired into it now. That dopamine hits crazy.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  And it's not even really rewarding, which is really terrifying to me, because it's not something that's, like, really feels great.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  And you barely retain the information. Like, even if you watch an educational one, where you're like, wow, that was amazing, you barely retain that information, because it's such a quick thing until you're onto the next one, at least for me.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a little bit of that in there for sure, but I think I've gotten a pretty good algorithm lately. So lately, for whatever reason, my algorithm has been really excellent. It's really dialed in, where I'm only getting, like, really fascinating things over the last couple of weeks.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Oh, it's been great.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  That's way better.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  And then every now and then, some retarded shit comes on, and I just skip through it real quick, and I'm like, gotta keep this algorithm going good.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  Or you text me a Bigfoot AI thing.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  The Bigfoot ones are so silly.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  They're so bad.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  They're so silly. You actually texted me the Bigfoot one.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Well, it was the same guy. You, you, the same guy texted you back. I was like, I don't think so, dude. He's like, this guy raised a baby Bigfoot in secrecy for 10 years.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  It's so bad.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  It's so bad.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  It's so obvious. It's like a shitty AI photograph of, like, like a blurry Polaroid photograph.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  And then you read the comments, and there's like 400 people going like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened. And you're like, come on!

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Oh, dude, Duncan and I, um, back in the day, like in 2012 or 11, whatever it was, when I did that sci-fi show, Joe Rogan Questions Everything, we went and hung out with Bigfoot people. We, we actually went Bigfoot hunting.

• 17:32Speaker 03

  No way.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. We hung, yeah, we were with them for a couple of days.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  How was that?

• 17:35Speaker 02

  In the woods, the Pacific Northwest. It's kind of sad.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Because the way I describe it, I would said, here's what you don't find when you go looking for Bigfoot: black people. You're more likely to find Bigfoot than you are black people looking for Bigfoot.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  It's just such a crazy white guy.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  A bunch of unfuckable white guys out in the woods, staring at shadows.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Like, making something out of nothing, right? Like, look at that leaf, it must have been here.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  It's just unfuckable guys. It's really what it is. It's, it's, unfortunately, that's really what it is. It's not that there's not something to the story, because I think there is something to the story.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  I think it's an old story.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Well, it dates all the way back to Native Americans, right?

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Well, not just that. There's, how many, we, we looked this up before, like, how many different names there are? And I think it was more than 50, different Native American names.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  I was asking if you've seen this coming out recently.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, that looks great. This guy was dead, man. By the way, you imagine, sitting that close to that thing, how bad that would smell?

• 18:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's revolting.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  I mean, that thing's been dead for who knows how long, and this guy's just hanging out, yeah, I'm gonna take you a picture. How, how do I look?

• 18:41Speaker 03

  Side fun fact, this guy was on Your Mom's House like 12 years ago.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Was he?

• 18:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  For what?

• 18:45Speaker 03

  He's like a fun guy on Instagram. He was a dog trainer.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  That's hilarious.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  And they, Tom found this video a long time ago, and they brought him in to do a podcast with him. And I just saw him pop up, and I'm like, I know who this guy is.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  No way!

• 18:56Speaker 03

  I don't know why, I got in a Bigfoot. He has Bigfoot's body, so I think two of them.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  Look how bad that looks!

• 19:02Speaker 03

  It's so bad, dude. Oh my God, look at these.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  Look at the head!

• 19:06Speaker 03

  Look at the smile!

• 19:10Speaker 04

  I mean, he's, he could be just a full-on superior troll, which maybe he is.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Oh, he's sawing into it. Look at this. It's a cake.

• 19:18Speaker 04

  It's gonna turn out, it's gonna be like...

• 19:20Speaker 03

  It's a cake.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Oh my god, he sawed into it. Open it up, Tom. Oh, he found a foot.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, very real looking.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Very real looking foot. That's really...

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Also, if you can't trust a guy in overalls with no shirt, who can you trust?

• 19:31Speaker 02

  By the way, guy's in great shape for his age.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  He is.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Looks ripped. He's out there lifting up fake Bigfoots all day.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  These things are heavy.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  I think there was, I mean, obviously, we know that Gigantopithecus was real, but we were reading about this the other day, that it seems like Gigantopithecus wasn't bipedal, and that there was some dispute as to whether or not it was bipedal, but apparently, there's some biologists that are saying, no, it was most likely it walked around like an orangutan. It was just huge.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Interesting. Just, just, oh wow.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Just a huge orangutan-looking thing.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  Huh. No, I've heard of it. I didn't know that it wasn't bipedal, though. That's fascinating.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  I think it's under dispute. I think, I think it's been disputed.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  That's interesting.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  It's hard to say. They don't have a lot of bones, right? They only have like a few jawbones and some stuff.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  Of them, yeah. Dude, I learned something pretty interesting this last week. So I, I just got back from India, literally flew in here from India, and we were doing some elephant rescues with Ventara, that big Indian wildlife rescue place. This elephant got hit by a car that we went and rescued, so its leg was all jacked up. Speaking of non-bipedal things, so you would think just the elephant would walk with a limp. Well, having that trunk, it's incredible. They use that trunk as a limb. So I was watching this elephant walk, I wish I had photos or video to show you, but I was watching this elephant walk, and it wouldn't put weight on its leg that was hit by the car, so it would walk with three legs and its trunk as its fourth appendage.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Oh wow.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Which is an amazing thing to see, because you think of the size of an elephant's cranium, and its head, and the weight, and in order to move that distribution off of that broken leg, it was using this trunk as a limb. It was just, it was incredible. It was really sad, but it was an incredible thing to see, the way they sort of figured out how to maneuver using that fifth appendage.

• 21:15Speaker 02

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• 21:59Speaker 02

  Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. ZipRecruiter. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Does the elephant allow people to set its leg?

• 22:15Speaker 03

  So, you know, in India...

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Was it broken?

• 22:18Speaker 03

  I don't know. It went, so we went to, basically, so I work at this place called Ventara, which is the world's largest wildlife rescue and rehab center. It's unreal, dude. It would blow your mind. I mean, like, on a whole nother level. All privately funded by Anad Ambani, this Indian billionaire guy. The guy who had the huge wedding, if you remember that, Justin Bieber singing at his wedding and stuff. He's a great dude. Him and I are buddies now, but, so he's funded this world's largest wildlife rescue and rehab. It like, it makes the San Diego Zoo look like a roadside attraction. I mean, it's like crazy big. And so he does all these rescues, right? So the reason I'm telling you all this is, they go and respond to these rescues, and then take it into this gigantic, world's biggest animal hospital that they've built.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  So we went and rescued the elephant, and now it's probably by today, back in Ventara, yeah, here you go, and, and they'll be treating it. So this is Longtoy, this is the other one. We did two rescues. This one was born with splay legs, and then went into logging, and so all the weight and stuff from logging, see the splay legs on the front there?

• 23:16Speaker 02

  Ouch.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, anyway, that was just incredible, but the short answer is, they do let people treat them, because these animals are raised by, in captivity, by what's called mahouts, which are elephant riders.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  And it's a really, the whole dynamic's really fascinating. So you grow up with an elephant as a mahout in Indian culture, and then there's usually one or two mahouts that spend their life dedicated to the elephant, and all they do is ride them, log them, they use them as tools, but they still love them very much. It's just they use them as a tool. Elephants obviously aren't made to do that, so they break down over time.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  So that's why its legs are like that? It's from carrying the amount of weight that comes from logging?

• 23:53Speaker 03

  So that one would have been born with a deformity.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 23:56Speaker 03

  But then years of compounding weight and everything else makes its legs like that.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  It's crazy. And then, yeah, so we go and we take the elephants in, plus the mahouts, and take them all back to Ventara, give the mahouts a full-time job. These guys are sleeping on mattresses on the floor, right? And then take them back, and it's a whole thing, reform everybody. It's an amazing thing. Yeah.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Oh wow. So when they treat the elephants, like, what, what do they do for an elephant that has a broken leg?

• 24:20Speaker 03

  So, most of it's just pain management, right? Because you can only get so far. So the one that got hit by...

• 24:26Speaker 02

  Can you set them in a cast?

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Uh, not really, no. You know, it depends, I guess it depends on the fracture. I'm not a vet, but I guess it depends on the fracture. But what they do is, they have, and Jamie, you might be able to see it, it's incredible, they have this giant jacuzzi. Like, imagine a jacuzzi the size of your building here, for elephants, and it's their hydrotherapy pool. So these animals that have terrible arthritis, or fucked up feet, or bad legs like that, they just spend all day in the water, because then there's no weight on their limbs.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Which is really cool.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Do they have medication, like anti-inflammatories for elephants?

• 24:57Speaker 03

  Everything, man. This place uses unbelievable, um, eastern medicine, western medicine, this crazy hospital. There's a lot of guys talking on their Instagram, unfortunately, but, yeah. This one's got a prosthetic leg.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, look at that. Isn't that crazy? So they do these amazing things.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Oh, fuck, man.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  But yeah, it's a really, really cool place. And we get to do some fun stuff, so I was, I was really privileged to be part of those elephant rescues. It's really emotional when you see an animal like an elephant that has so much like intelligence, look you in the eye and be like, I'm in so much pain, and then you like start to relieve it. It's cool.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  I, um, went to visit this place in Thailand a few years back that has wild elephants.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  So they're wild elephants, but you, you can ride them, and that you feed them, so you make, you have, you make friends with them first?

• 25:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Like, you feed them sugar cane, you hang out with them, you pet them, and then they let you ride them.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  And they put their arm out, like, they're like, "Go ahead."

• 25:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, to walk up, to step up.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  "Come on, go ahead."

• 25:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  So it lets you know, like, "Okay."

• 25:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  I didn't like the riding part. It felt wrong to me. It's just, like, it's a thing that, like, all the tourists did, but my family wanted to do it, so I said, "Okay."

• 26:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  But, it's okay. But the animals themselves are so sweet.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  They're, like, when you're hanging around with them, they're like, they're so, one of them, I, I got a video of it on my Instagram. She was just like eating a log.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  She kept chewing on this log, and I'm just hanging out with her, and I made this like video with me. I'm like, she's eating a log. I don't know why she's eating this log, but...

• 26:23Speaker 03

  They're so cool.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  She's really sweet. But it wasn't, um, it was, it was a weird, it's a weird relationship that they have. And then you wash them at the end of the trip.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  So you get them in the, they get in this pool, this big pond.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  And you could just wash them and hang out with them. They like it that you do that.

• 26:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  So it feels good to them, and they're like, "Thank you." And I'm like, "Well, no, thank you for carrying me."

• 26:44Speaker 03

  There's good and bad. Like, I mean, elephants have been used through history, right? In war, in logging, in circuses, everything else. But now, I would say in the last 20 years, we're finally sort of waking up to, hey, a lifetime of being on an elephant's back, like, you can see the deformities, you can see the bed sores, you can see the hip displays, or hip issues.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Oh, from carrying people? Just carrying people?

• 27:04Speaker 03

  They're just not designed for it. You know, they look, you think they are when you look at them, and you're like, what could it, you know, we're like an ant on that thing's back. But it, it's pretty hard on them. And the hardest part is actually not you or I or anybody riding them, it's walking on concrete.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Oh, that makes sense.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Because elephants have these soft, padded feet. They're not designed for rock-hard ground. So the impact of walking on pavement is actually, that compounding with added weight, that's what's actually so bad for them.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  I bet the heat of the asphalt, too. Right? Like, dogs, like, dogs hate the heat of asphalt. It's horrible for them.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  And the weirdest thing about an elephant foot, if you look at its anatomy, they're one of the few animals that walk on their toes. So they don't have toes splitting out like we do. They walk on top of their toes. So that, you know, imagine that compounding on heat, plus weight.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Close up, I guess. Weird.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  It's a weird animal.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're cool.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Isn't it cool that they thought that that's what a cyclops was? When they found the skulls?

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, because the skull.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Isn't that amazing?

• 28:03Speaker 02

  That's why they thought cyclopses were a real thing.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  Dude, have you ever seen, have you ever been to the Explorers Club in New York City?

• 28:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  That's worth a visit. You would love it. They have the Champotat Tiger there, like the most famous man-eating tiger skin.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  That's the one that killed like 476 people?

• 28:15Speaker 03

  Yep, yep.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Is that what the number, something crazy like that, right?

• 28:18Speaker 03

  I actually have it on my YouTube and I don't remember the name.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  It's more than 400 people, right?

• 28:22Speaker 03

  It's crazy. And then Jim Corbett went and shot it.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 28:25Speaker 03

  And he, I almost named my son Corbett because I love that story so much, but, um, but they have the only four-tusked elephant at the Explorers Club in New York City.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 28:34Speaker 03

  I'm sure, Jamie, you could find a picture of the skull. Nobody knows why. Total anomaly. Nobody's ever seen it. Nobody knows why. I think it's the only one in existence and it literally has four tusks coming out of it.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Just a weird genetic thing?

• 28:46Speaker 03

  I think so. Like that splay-legged one we look like. I think it's just a mutation.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  Sometimes with elk, um, they'll get an injury when they're young and then they'll get weird deformities of their, their antlers.

• 28:55Speaker 03

  But is that different because they shed their antlers every year so they grow back in weird ways? I don't, I don't know.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  I think it's, um, an injury to the, the skull.

• 29:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  So an injury to like the area where the antler is. Like sometimes they'll just have one sword.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  Like, um, there was a ranch that, um, in California that had this one elk that was killing all the other elk. Because, uh, he didn't have antlers the same way. Oh, they got a yeti skull. Where'd you find that, Jamie?

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Eleven big, interesting things you can see there.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Oh, at the Explorers Club?

• 29:27Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm sure that's legit.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  So this, uh, one elk had, uh, on one side, he had like normal antlers.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  But the other side, he just had a spear.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. That's cool.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  And so he was just stabbing all these other elk.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  And it was killing the other elk.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  What the fuck is this guy doing?

• 29:42Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Because he, it wasn't, like, they're used to their antlers interlocking.

• 29:46Speaker 03

  Of course, yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  And this is the thing. They get together and they clash and they try to impress the ladies.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Yep. There he is. Look at that.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  The tusks. That's cool.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Isn't that so weird?

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Very weird. Four. And they're, they're like weird the way they're interlo, they're going towards each other. It's weird, too.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Which makes you realize it's a genetic deformity, right? Because it's not like this perfect symmetrical, like nature made it. It's, it's just, it's a mutation of some kind.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Well, that's what's weird about genes, right? Like things go wonky all the time. Someone's born with an extra arm. You're like, okay.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Sometimes people are born with tails and you're like, ooh.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  It's so, so weird. Dude, you, you and I talked about Barbarossa one time. The, the pigs that have those crazy.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, they go into their own skulls.

• 30:26Speaker 03

  My buddy, who's a vet, he just cut a horn out of a sable, you know, sable antelope?

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  That was growing into its own skull.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  It's cra, I have a video of it on my Instagram, Jamie, if you want to see it, but it's, um, it, so it got an injury, so it killed part of the horn. And you know, they're antelope, they're not deer, so they don't shed their horns.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  So they grow forever. So this guy had this giant horn just circling back, punching into its own skull. Can you imagine that? Dude, it was gnarly.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  The pigs are nuts, though, or what, whatever that animal's called.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  The Barbarossa.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Is it a pig? It's technically a pig?

• 30:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. It's like a Indonesian warthog. Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  But the way it goes into its own skull, no matter what, like it always happens.

• 31:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, because they have to fight and break them off. And if they don't fight and break them off, they just, it's, nature's so weird, man. Yeah, these guys.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  That is fucking crazy.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  They're so cool.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  I wonder what those things taste like.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  I bet they taste great. I think all the swine taste great.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  Hmm. I had Havoline, which is not technically a swine. It's a peccary.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  It wasn't that good.

• 31:26Speaker 03

  Not good?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:27Speaker 03

  Huh. That's unfortunate.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  It's odd.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, oh. No, just not the best. Like, well, you gotta think of what they're eating. You know?

• 31:35Speaker 03

  For what I know about Havoline is they eat garbage primarily.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. Because like, that's the case with, uh, bears, right? Like, uh, my friend Steve Rinella, um, cooked, uh, a bear steak.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Uh, or a bear ham on his friend's, uh, smoker.

• 31:52Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  And he said to his friend, he said, hey, uh, you should probably clean that smoker. It smells like fish. And he goes, I've never cooked fish in that smoker once. And it was just from the bear. The bear had eaten so much fish that as he was smoking the bear, all you could smell was fish.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  That's disgusting. It's like eating a seagull.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Whoa, look at this one. It's going right into its head.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  That's the guy. Yeah, isn't that crazy?

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Wow, that's nuts.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  And it's, yeah, he like cuts the horn off and you can see, because the horn's a living thing. There's only.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  How is that animal still alive?

• 32:23Speaker 03

  Barely. Like they, he had millimeters of growth to go before it punched right into his brain.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 32:30Speaker 03

  Isn't that gnarly?

• 32:31Speaker 02

  That's so gnarly. It's like digging in, imagine that like every day, just a tiny little amount more is growing into your brain.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  It's gotta be this constant pain where like it just, it just gets tiny bit worse all the time.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Sawing through it.

• 32:47Speaker 03

  See how much into the skull it went? Like it was right there.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  That's so gross. I thought you'd like that.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  I don't know if this is about me. You thought that I would like that, but that is.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  It is gnarly, man. That poor dude. Now he doesn't have any antlers.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Or horns, right? Is it technically horns?

• 33:04Speaker 03

  Horns, yeah, but he's still got a brain, so that helps.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Well, carry on, bro.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  Nature's a motherfucker, dude.

• 33:11Speaker 03

  Dude, it's crazy.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Um, where's the thylacine, man? What's going on?

• 33:15Speaker 03

  It's gone pretty cold, dude.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Really?

• 33:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Damn it. I was hoping you'd come in with new evidence.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  I wish I was. There's a group that I've, I've been working with called Mammal Watching, like if you heard of bird watching.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  And they've been going into Western Papua and Papua New Guinea, which is, as you know, where I think there could still be a tiny population. And, uh, so I'm working with them. They're giving trail cameras out to guys. They're still hearing legends here and there, but it's just, I don't know, it's, it feels like the legends are getting fewer and further between, like almost over generational time. It's disappearing, if that makes sense.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a bad sign.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  That means whatever's left is probably dying off, right?

• 33:52Speaker 03

  If at all. Yeah. And I mean, I still hold out hope. It's something I've always wanted to be and I like, I want it to be there, but it just, it feels like those bits of evidence that were compounding have all sort of started to fade.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  That sucks.

• 34:06Speaker 03

  I know, it really does.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  A very interesting thing with the incredible variety of wildlife that we have, that we're so fascinated by the ones that might not be alive. This, like the things like the thylacine or the giant sloth.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Like I, I remember I watched this documentary on the giant sloth. There was this one scientist, this biologist, who had spent an inordinate amount of time, like years in, in the Amazon.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Looking for a giant sloth and was realizing at some point in time during the documentary that he might have ruined his career.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  Overdoing it, yeah.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Because he might have been chasing something that doesn't exist. And it's this wild gamble. If he listens to these people and they're telling them the truth.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Because all the natives are like, oh yeah, bro, they're out here.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Right around the next turn.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  We'll find them tomorrow, yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Right over the next mountain.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  Yep, I've been there. But you know, if you don't follow those leads, like, do you know what the sawla is? The Asian unicorn?

• 34:58Speaker 02

  I've heard that, yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  It, same thing. Same story, but real animal. And you know, there was, there was basically one ever seen by Western science, uh, an animal named Martha. And for years, scientists, Western scientists were going into Vietnam and Laos. They're going, yeah, yeah, we, we have this thing called a sawla, the Asian unicorn. And they're like, shut up. You know, and then all of a sudden turns out here's this giant bovid that still exists.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  What a cool looking animal, too.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. And nobody knows whether they still exist now or not.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Right there?

• 35:24Speaker 03

  That's it, yeah. So basically there's been three or four, maybe more, that have ever been seen. Um, most of them caught in poacher's snares like this one. But then, really cool, a guy named Bill Robichaud got a call once from a prince and he had caught one and it was in his village. And he flew in there and overnight the poor thing died. And that was the only time a single Westerner in history has ever seen a live sawla.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  And this guy had it and then, and then he's like, can we please preserve it? And the king was like, nah, we're gonna eat it. And they ate it.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  Got nothing out of it. Yeah. He's got pictures and stuff, so you know it's all, it's all real, but they call it the unicorn because its horns are so symmetrical. That when you look at it from a side profile, it looks like one horn coming out of its head.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Like that.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  That's weird.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. They're very cool, but it's a bovid. It's a, it's a cattle. That's, that's not one. I don't know why they're using that photo.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Oh, how odd.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. But that's the same thing as these, you know, these things around giant sloths and thylacine and Bigfoot and everything else. It's, they are out there, you know, some of them, not all of them, but they are out there. And if you don't follow the lead, if you ignore it, then you miss things like that.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So instead of letting it build up, sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time, not just on World Mental Health Day. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance.

• 37:17Speaker 02

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• 37:52Speaker 02

  You just set your temperature, put your food in, and let Traeger handle the rest. It's simple. If you like food that tastes like it came off a real fire without all the work, check out Traeger grills. Well, there's also like, when you think about things like the Amazon, like if you ever see footage of the Amazon from above, you go, oh, there's no way you know.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  That's so big.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  You, you look down and you go, oh, well, well, there's no way you know.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  This is, this is way too big. And there's no way there's a bunch of people scouring every inch of that place.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  I mean, given there are still groups of human beings uncontacted, you know?

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Oh, a lot. Like my friend Paul Rosley.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know Paul, yeah.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  He's come in contact with them multiple times.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  See if you can get some aerial footage of flying over the Amazon. I mean, it's, it's in multiple countries. It's, what is it?

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Oh, it's crazy.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  Peru, Bolivia, where else? Brazil.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  Argentina.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  It's crazy. It's so big.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  It's huge.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  It's so fucking big.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  And I had a similar experience in New Guinea, talking about thylacine, where we got on a plane in a place called Tufi and flew to another area.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Like, look at this.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  It was just like this. For four hours, we didn't see one building.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Amazon in 4K. So just ima, like, there is no fucking way you know, you know what's in there.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  No way.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  There's probably a bunch of shit in there that no one has found.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  And then there's, oh, undeniably there are. Um, and then there's stuff, you know, like, you'll get a kick out of this, Loch Ness monster. What do you think it is?

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Maybe a sturgeon or something like that.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  Jamie, what do you think the Loch Ness monster is?

• 39:23Speaker 04

  I mean, I think they know, but I don't know. Uh, probably, I don't know.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Whale dick.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  What?

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Whale dick.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Whale dick?

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Whale dick.

• 39:30Speaker 04

  Not a narwhal dick?

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Pull up Loch Ness monster versus whale dick. Look at this and tell me this isn't what they think is the Loch Ness monster.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Do you mean like the photos, the hoax photo of the one that's poking out of the water?

• 39:42Speaker 03

  That one, I mean, you'll see it in a second here, I think, but there are these photos of a whale's penis compared to the Loch Ness monster. And I mean, I, that's certainly not proof, but it kinda answers a lot of like, that's a whale dick right there.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  That is a whale dick, but that photo, I'm pretty sure is a proven hoax.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  That one is.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that photo was like a guy like made something out of wood and like floated it in the water and took a picture. Is that what the story behind that is?

• 40:11Speaker 03

  There's something along those lines.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  No, Loch Ness monster isn't a whale penis, professor says.

• 40:16Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Well, if the internet professor says it, then.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Oh, a professor. Oh, well, let's take him seriously. He's out there.

• 40:25Speaker 04

  There's no whales there.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  If you're the type of professor that they call upon when they're trying to figure out if something's a whale dick, maybe.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  Sir, would you please study these nine whale penis and tell us your thoughts on this?

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Maybe that's what happened to the.

• 40:38Speaker 04

  It was his claim and then he said he was just like kinda messing around.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  Well, I'm sticking with it. I like it. I like the whale dick theory.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  The guy that proposed it?

• 40:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  Darn it, I like that theory.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  He's since walked back his salacious claim. That's so funny. Maybe that's the guy that was looking for the giant sloth. He's like, I need a new angle. This giant sloth thing did not pan out.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  I like it. Big dick energy.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  If you're a guy looking for a giant sloth in the Amazon, like, where do you look? Like, how, good luck finding it.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  You have to find geographically isolated areas, you know, because there are little pockets, right? If little pockets of, okay, people aren't coming in here, animals aren't going out, there's a big ring of mountains, there's whatever it happens to be. I, I, I met a guy who said he guaranteed he knew, you know, all these people like this, but I, I always enjoy the story of it. That there was this pocket in Peru that was completely geographically isolated by the mountains and that's where they were. And the idea is that these areas remain unchanged, right? It's like an island, basically, in the Amazon. Like, things just don't change because it's so isolated from everything else.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  Well, I think the idea also is that giant sloths where, where we know they existed in North America. That, um, whenever, whatever happened that ended the ice age, the Younger Dryas impact. That it didn't affect things below the equator or at the equator was more of a northern hemisphere thing.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, because the climate shift was so much stronger.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Exactly. And so the, most of the animals that died off, well, if you look at like the, I think it was 65% of North American megafauna died off during this very short window.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  That, that didn't happen in South America.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  And that we're just guessing that they're dead.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  You know, because if there was a healthy pop, like think, how many tigers are there in the wild? I think there's 5,000.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Uh, something like that, yeah. It's gone way up, by the way. It was down to 400.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Fun fact, more tigers in captivity in Texas.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  I know.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Than there are in all of the wild of the world.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  It's, Texas is crazy, man. It's such a wild.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  People's yards.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  In private collections in Texas, there's more tigers than all of the wild of the world.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  It's such an insane statement. That should not exist. Yeah.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  I love this state.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  It's just, get away with it.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  It's just, it's just a wild place, like for all intensive purposes.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's hilarious.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Wild for people.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Dude, I love Texas. Every time I come to Texas, I'm like, this place is great. I always have fun. Everybody's so nice, too.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  That's the best part. It's like, nobody scowls at you. You get in the elevator and they're like, hey, how's your day going? And you're like.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Very friendly people.

• 43:17Speaker 03

  I'll tell you how it's going.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Very, um, a lot of people, especially coastal elites, I would like to say, like people, coastal snobs. They have this idea of it being like filled with rednecks and ignorant people and foolish people. It's not that way at all. Especially Austin. Austin is like one of the most like liberal, easygoing, progressive cities.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  But like even the progressives here, they're like more reasonable.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  It's like down to earth. It's not like extremism, right?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Well, they, they're definitely more crazy than they were 20 years ago when I first started coming here.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  But way less crazy than like liberals in LA.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Or liberals in Cal, or liberals in New York.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  Uh, just where they're, where it's just extreme, right? Like protests and all these, yeah.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Well, it's like, there's a saying about Austin, keep Austin weird and surrounded.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  And surrounded?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:10Speaker 03

  What is the and surrounded?

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Surrounded by red people. Like, it's all red states around you and it's this pocket of blue that's in the center of this red state. I think that's good for everybody.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  I think that's good. It's a balance. And like, the liberals that wanna turn Texas blue, like, don't. You're gonna ruin it. You're gonna ruin it for you, too. You don't get it. Like, balance is important. It's like, you can't kill all the predators, because then the deer will get overrun and you're hitting them with cars.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  And you can't kill all the deer, because then there's no food. And I mean, that's what they did when they were market hunting.

• 44:48Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Balance. And you need balance with humans, too.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  And the Austin balance is a great balance.

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  It's a liberal city surrounded by like hardcore Republicans with guns and tigers.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  And it works. And it all works.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  It works. It makes for nice people. It's like, it's a good mix.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  And a misunderstood mix.

• 45:09Speaker 03

  That's interesting.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  People on the outside, they have a very distorted perception of what Texas is, especially Austin.

• 45:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, how do you feel as a California, I mean, you've bounced around, but as a California transplant, did you bring your assi balls and you're, you know, you're like, I need all that California stuff here?

• 45:25Speaker 02

  What stuff?

• 45:26Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, I don't know. That's like, that's the thing, though, right? Is like, all the Californians coming here and messing it up kinda thing?

• 45:32Speaker 02

  I was never one of those. So my, what I got out of California was the Comedy Store and work.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  And then jujitsu. So like, you get all that here. Austin is arguably the jujitsu capital of the world right now.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  Really?

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  Oh, that's interesting. Is this where the new league is based out of?

• 45:49Speaker 02

  No, that's, you mean the UFC league?

• 45:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  No, that's in Vegas. They do that in Vegas. Um, because that's where the UFC's headquarters are. But Austin has, um, King's World, which is, uh, Gordon Ryan's place. It's got, B Team is out here, uh, Sean J. Hiberos out here.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  Um, there's a bunch of Gracie Baja schools out here. There's multiple 10th Planet schools out here. It's like, there's an incredible amount of jujitsu out here.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  So what I'm hearing is this is where to bring Run Nation, bring it to Austin.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  No, keep that. They'll never win. The only people that are gonna win are those wild New Zealand dudes and those Australian guys. Those guys will win every time. They're built for that shit. No, but it's, uh, it's just a great city, period. Artistically, it's always been like a great music city. Now it's arguably the comedy capital of the country.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, there's so many comedians here now, right?

• 46:42Speaker 02

  It's because they got here and they went, oh, this is way better. There's no traffic. Everyone's nice.

• 46:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  And then you could do whatever you want. And also, there's a lot of places to do comedy.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Just on my street where my club is, there's five or six other clubs that have opened up since we opened up.

• 46:57Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. That's amazing.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Incredible. So if you're a young comic and you, or an established comic that just wants to work out material, you could go, go to my club. You hop down the street to the Sunset Room, which is my friend Brian's club, right down the street. And you go down the street to the Creek in the Cave, an amazing club that's just two seconds away.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Oh, cool.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  It's like one block over. Like, everything's close. The Vulcan, which is right there. Everything's right there.

• 47:20Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  It's incredible. It's incredible.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  That's great. I'm glad you're so stoked here. I remember when, uh, the first, maybe the second time we hung out down at your show in, uh, not Westlake, where was it? Woodland Hills, right?

• 47:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  And you were like, dude, I gotta get out of here.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would, I wanted to get out a long time ago.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  And fun fact, we started the podcast because I was depressed because I had to move back from Colorado.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 47:44Speaker 02

  So I lived in Colorado for a little bit, but my wife got pregnant and when she was pregnant, uh, it was like, if you are an altitude, uh, we were at 8,500 feet above sea level. It's rough.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  And we went back to LA for a short period of time and she was fine.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  And then we went back to Colorado and she was sick again. I was like, okay. And then we were reading about low birth weight, premature birth, is a lot of like really bad things that happen to people, especially if you're not acclimated.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  So interesting.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  To these high altitude areas.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  By the way, working out there, when I worked out there, I, I was, I thought I was gonna die. And then, um, I, uh, went to, uh, Philadelphia and I had to do some gigs in Philadelphia and I worked out and I felt like I could run through a wall.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  You just had so much oxygen in your blood.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  So much. I was like, this is incredible. It's the only time in my life I've ever been altitude adjusted, like where my, my body had adapted.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  And I was like, there's a ma, this is a massive advantage. No wonder why fighters do it.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  And you don't acclimate being up at that height, uh, over months or anything else?

• 48:49Speaker 02

  Oh, I did. I certainly did. Like, I could work out there and I, I used to, uh, I did jujitsu in Boulder. So Boulder was, I was in a place called Gold Hill, which is 8,500 feet above sea level and Boulder's like 55.

• 49:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  So I was doing, shout out to Amal Easton, my friend Amal, he has a jujitsu gym in Boulder, great place.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  And then when I was training there, I was fine. I mean, you trained, but you definitely could feel it. It was, and I had trained there once before. When, uh, I had come from LA and I was like, ooh, this altitude's rough. Like, it's like working out in Denver, you're like, ooh, you feel it.

• 49:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  But not like you feel it at 8,500 feet. 8,500 feet was, I do this, these kettlebell workouts and I was doing it. And I, I'm, I'm used to what it does. Like, I'm, I'm used to be, and I was like, this is crazy. This feels like I'm drunk.

• 49:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Like, it felt, you know what I mean?

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Just had nothing in the tank, yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  It really felt like I drank a bottle of whiskey and tried to work out. I was so tired.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  I went to the Himalayas like maybe four or five years ago to look for red pandas up in the trees, you know, those cute little guys. And, uh, day one, I, I literally maybe made it 400 feet and then had to sit down. And I was like, all right, we're trekking for pandas, we're heading up into the mountains, we'll find these pandas and I, I just, I don't remember what the elevation was, but I'd come from Santa Barbara, where I live, which is sea level. To this high Himalayas and I, I had to sit down like every 15 minutes for the first couple of days.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  The most horrifying video the other day.

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Uh-oh.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Of this guy who was on one of those, um, summit hikes and slipped.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Oh no.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  His friends watched him slide.

• 50:21Speaker 03

  Like all the way down to his death?

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Just sliding down ice and snow and couldn't stop.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  Oof.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  And couldn't, and they just had to stand there and watch this guy slide away.

• 50:32Speaker 03

  What can you do?

• 50:32Speaker 02

  Nothing.

• 50:33Speaker 03

  That's so crazy.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Nothing.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  Was he climbing?

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 03

  Oof.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was trying, he was making it to the summit and slipped.

• 50:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's brutal.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  And slipped off the, you know, just a very clear path and slipped off of it and just started sliding. And you realize, oh, he's gone.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  He's gonna go off forever.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  Oh, it's horrible.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  And I always wanna like take my kids to do these things with me, you know, and I'm like, oh, I wanna take them to trek and see the mountains and catch crocodiles and do all these various things that I like to do. And you realize it's like, my six-year-old can barely walk in a straight line without falling down. You know what I mean? Like, imagine taking him on a mountain trek.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  Oh, that's so scary. But on the other, the other hand, like, you don't wanna protect them too much. You wanna expose them to a certain amount of danger, cuz I think it's good for them.

• 51:17Speaker 03

  A hundred percent, yeah.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good for them to experience. It's also good for them to have like a broader understanding of what the world is, right? Like, the world's a bunch of different things.

• 51:30Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  It's not just Santa Monica.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Like, oh, there's Costa Rica. Like, whoa, this is crazy. Look at these bugs, these are nuts, like birds. Like, there's, it's nice for them.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  It's important.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  It's it, yeah.

• 51:41Speaker 03

  Because otherwise, we live in a bubble. Like, America's great. I, I say this to my wife all the time. I'm so patriotic, I love this country. It's great, but it's a bubble.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  Everything's easy, it's safe, you can order shit on your phone, it shows up at your house, you know, there's a million restaurants to pick from. Obviously, it depends where you live, but you get my point.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  And then you get out of here and it's like, okay, everything closes at 4:00 PM. Like, go figure out your food. You know what I mean? And then you're like, okay, well, now, now I have two kids who are hungry and we're in the jungle or it's, you know, in a town that everything shuts down on Sundays or whatever. It's like, figure it out. Those are important lessons for little kids to be dynamic and figure out like how the rest of the world works and that they have to figure out how to get things when it's not all just at the touch of your, you know, phone.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Also to recognize that there's gonna be times where you don't have food.

• 52:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Like, people are just so accustomed to having food anytime they're hungry. And in fact, sometimes when they're not even hungry. They're just bored, so they start stuffing their face when they're bored, which never existed in all of human history.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  No, no. Dude, I just read, you might be well-read on this, but I just read something interesting. The eight-hour night of sleep?

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  Invented by a mattress company, you know about this?

• 52:48Speaker 02

  I didn't know it was invented by a mattress company, but I do know that traditionally in the past, people would do two sleeps.

• 52:54Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, this was, yeah, so you know about what I'm talking about. I just read this literally yesterday in one of my doom-scrolling things, but...

• 53:01Speaker 02

  It's interesting because I did that a lot when I was young, where I would wake up in the middle of the night and I'd just decide to watch TV.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  And do something for an hour.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  And watch TV for a few hours and then I'd go back to sleep. But it was just, for me, it was just like being indulgent because I was single and free and, you know, 25 years old and I had my own apartment. I'm like, I can do whatever the fuck I want.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Get up at 3:00 in the morning, watch TV for a couple hours and go to sleep till noon.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  Why not? Sit around in your boxers, eat cereal?

• 53:27Speaker 04

  The mattress part is a myth.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  Oh, it is.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  God damn it, everything I keep bringing up is a myth, Jamie. No whale dicks, no mattresses, come on.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Jamie is the killer of dreams.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  You're killing all my stuff, man.

• 53:36Speaker 04

  I saw the same Instagram video you guys saw and I thought it was interesting, too.

• 53:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  That is the myth, I think that might be a myth. The two, I think the two-sleep thing, it was a way that people would get up in the middle of the night and but you also have to think, I think a lot of people went to bed way earlier because it got dark.

• 53:55Speaker 03

  And we didn't have electricity.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  And there's a normal circadian rhythm where people get, it gets dark out, you eat, maybe hang out in front of a campfire for a little while and then you go to bed.

• 54:04Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  If you've ever gone camping, that's what most people do. Most people don't stay up till 4:00 in the morning when you're camping.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  Not without booze.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  No, there's a little of that. If you've got booze, you might be up late. Telling stories and laughing. And if anybody breaks out a guitar, you're fucked.

• 54:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, then you're up all night, yeah.

• 54:21Speaker 04

  When you mentioned pandas, I was gonna ask you about it. Me and Maestin going around the same places, that pandas are fake.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Dude, did you see the zoo in China that painted the dogs? Did you see the zoo in China that painted the Pomeranians?

• 54:32Speaker 02

  I did see that. But the thing is about pandas is that, and I, I went down a rabbit hole with this the other night. There were no depictions of pandas in like ancient Chinese history.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  No, is that true?

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is true. Yeah, they, they didn't show up until like, God, I wanna say it was like the 16th century or 17th century.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  That's bizarre, I wonder why that is. Cuz you know there were explorers going through the area and all of that.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  Well, the idea was that maybe they were engineered to eat bamboo. Cuz bamboo, if you think about it, is like a very prolific plant.

• 55:06Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Like, I have bamboo on my property, that shit just grows like, it's crazy how well it grows, grows so quickly.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  And there's almost no nutritional value in it either.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  So here's the panda. Interesting, the claim is largely true, with nuance. So was, what did you, uh, search? Into perplexity, our AI sponsor? Is it true that pandas aren't in Chinese ancient history? The claim is largely true, though with nuance. Okay, giant pandas strikingly absent from China's classical cultural record. Unlike the dragon, which is weird, tiger crane, by the way, our conversation about it made it to The View. I don't know if you know about that?

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Dude, I texted you, I texted you. You changed your status to dragon believer, it was so funny.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  Lejoy Bayar's like, he believes in dragons? Like, oh my God, this is wonderful.

• 55:54Speaker 03

  Oh, it's so good.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  Oh, this is so good. Oh. Okay, so when did it happen? Unlike the dragon, tiger crane or tortoise doesn't appear on ancient bronzes or pottery in Tang poetry, song paintings. Yuan, Yuan, Y-U-A-N, how do you say that?

• 56:10Speaker 04

  Beats me.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  Yuan, drama, Ming novels or Q-I-N-G, king?

• 56:16Speaker 03

  Queen?

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Queen. Uh, before the late 20th century, it had essentially no symbolic role in Chinese civilization. Its status as a national treasure is a post-1949 invention.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  That's bizarre.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  After pandas became famous, famous globally in the 20th century, Chinese scholars went back and combed old texts, looking for them. A few candidate references exist. Uh, the Shijing Book of Odes and Shangshu mention a creature called Pai or Mo, which some modern scholars retroactively identified as the panda, but the identification is contested. And those same words were also used for leopards, taper? How do you say it? Taper?

• 56:57Speaker 03

  Taper, yeah.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Tapir?

• 56:58Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  Or mythical beasts. Uh, Emperor Wen of Han, 7th, 2nd century BCE reportedly had a mo uh, buried in his mother's tomb, sometimes claimed as a panda. But that's, it's weird.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  That is very bizarre.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Fragmentary, ambiguous and rare, nothing like the deep iconographic tradition around dragons, phoenixes or tigers. Why the absence?

• 57:24Speaker 03

  Rogan-style claim.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  Ah, I've never even said it before, fuck you! How dare you, perplexity?

• 57:33Speaker 02

  That is so funny, it's a Rogan-style claim.

• 57:35Speaker 04

  I think it's those that were on the podcast also.

• 57:38Speaker 03

  It's listening right now.

• 57:39Speaker 04

  Cuz I, sometimes they'll bring in questions I've asked from like last month and I'd be like, are you? And I'm like, no, I didn't, this is a separate search, but it's like all locked into the AI history.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Oh, I, I asked it a question once and it said, as you have previously stated.

• 57:53Speaker 03

  No way.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  I was like, whoa.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  I was trying to find out like how many views something had gotten.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  And you're like, as you've previously stated.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  It told you, yeah.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  I was like, you're using me as data?

• 58:05Speaker 03

  As the reference.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  This is why AI is so fucked up. Like, you trusting me? I'm trusting you! Don't trust me at all, I get all my information from you!

• 58:16Speaker 03

  Dude, that's so weird, I, cuz you wonder...

• 58:17Speaker 02

  It is weird.

• 58:18Speaker 03

  Cuz it's not like, you know, okay, there's no mention of ducks, I get it, cuz there's ducks everywhere, who cares, right? Like, so why do we write about them? But it's not something like that. Like, pandas were never so abundant that it was not worth talking about.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, see if where this theor, who invented this theory that they were engineered to eat bamboo?

• 58:36Speaker 03

  So who, who did this engineering in this theory?

• 58:39Speaker 02

  Well, that's a question, like, who did dogs, right? Why do we have dogs?

• 58:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  Which is really weird. You know, why, why, I have a dog, he's a King Charles Cavalier.

• 58:48Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  You know those little?

• 58:49Speaker 03

  I do, they're very cute.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  He's adorable! He's so cute, I love him to death. But he, and he's made an appearance on the podcast.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  Oh, nice.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  Um, he's, uh, the furthest thing from a wolf. Like, as far as we've taken a wolf.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  To make it so fucking adorable and cute, but that is what it is. That was at one point in time a wolf. And somehow or another, we engineered it down to a dog that's adorable and just wants to cuddle with you and sit in your lap and play.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  And weighs 25 pounds.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  So what happened? And how did we do that? And could you do that with a bear? And could you get a bear, then take, take that bear and make it something? I think it's the only bear that's a true herbivore as well.

• 59:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's correct, yeah.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Which is also weird. So what have we done? Their digestive tract, we changed?

• 59:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  And they're required, like, it's like koalas, I think they only eat eucalyptus.

• 59:42Speaker 03

  That's right, yep.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  Fucking weird.

• 59:44Speaker 03

  Bizarre.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  Really weird.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  Which also has no nutritional value and, you probably know this, makes them like high, basically.

• 59:49Speaker 04

  So I was looking up who, who did it and started going on the thing that it's not, no one is known for the theory, it's because they're actually carnivores.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  Oh, they're a taxon, oh, so it's koalas, I think, are the ones that are pure herbivores?

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  That, they definitely are, but they're not bears at all. They're marsupial, they just call them koala bears.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  I see.

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  So when they say they are taxonomic carnivores, that means taxonomically, they're in the order Carnivora, if that makes sense, so...

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  But it says with a short digestive tract and gut microbiomes of a meat eater.

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  So they're vegans.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  But you could selectively breed for anything to some degree, if you had enough time.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  But look, but that's the other thing, like, why are they so cute?

• 1:00:30Speaker 03

  That I cannot answer.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  Because they're so much cuter than any other bear, by far. Like, that face, even with the teeth out, like, aww, buddy!

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  They also have the best PR campaign in history. Like, they're, they're the dumbest animals in the world, you know this, right?

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  Oh my God, I don't know if that's the right terminology, but like, you can hand a panda an apple and it will hand you its baby. I'm not joking dude, you can find videos of this.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  Well, isn't that more evidence that it's raised? That it's been engineered? Because it doesn't have the instincts that a wild animal would have?

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  Dude, their parental instincts are bonkers. Bonkers. Like, they will drop their baby and go for an apple. That's how zookeepers take their babies away. Dude, it's like these guys are trying to go extinct. I swear to God, it's insane.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  So where did the theory come from? See if you can find out where the theory came from, that they were engineered to eat bamboo.

• 1:01:22Speaker 04

  That's why I asked that exact question, it says it's just a...

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  Which just started showing up on my Instagram about three months ago.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  Huh. Dude, Instagram, you never know what you're gonna get.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Oh, of course. But that's what's fun.

• 1:01:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  As long as you don't buy into it.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  Dude, the problem is, even like me and what I do as a biologist, I can... I mean, I'd say 90% I can tell, but there's a 10% where I can't tell if it's AI or real or... And I'm looking at it going, "Well, that behavior is wrong, so it has to be AI." But it's crazy what's going on in like the animal space with the AI mockups now.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  I watched one today where it was a wildebeest that a leopard had jumped on its back.

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  And the wildebeest jumped into the water and the crocodiles killed the leopard on its back and then the wildebeest got away.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  Totally fake?

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  It has to be!

• 1:02:10Speaker 03

  Sounds fake, I mean, it sounds insane.

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  Wildebeest is smart all of a sudden?

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  So smart that it figured out, "All I have to do is get to those crocs and the crops..." Also, like, you're gonna run, I don't, like, you're gonna give yourself more problems?

• 1:02:24Speaker 03

  Right, by going into the water, yeah.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  By the way, multiple crocodiles, so why wouldn't they just eat you too?

• 1:02:29Speaker 03

  They would, they'd just kill everything.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  They would kill everybody.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  Everything, they wouldn't care at all.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Both of you are compromised, it's not gonna just grab the leopard on your back. It's gonna grab you too, because you can't get away.

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  Anything they can get, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 02

  So it's fake, it's crazy. But it was also fun.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly, it's also fun.

• 1:02:43Speaker 04

  I just found it actually in a different video, but yeah, here it is right here.

• 1:02:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:02:47Speaker 02

  Oh, so this is a...

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  That's AI.

• 1:02:49Speaker 04

  This is a longer cut of the video.

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  But you can see by like the saturation of the leopard.

• 1:02:53Speaker 04

  The leopard's a little fake.

• 1:02:54Speaker 03

  And like the way the claws are kinda like, there's no claws, it's almost like softballing it, you know what I mean?

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  Right, right, and look how he's hanging on.

• 1:03:01Speaker 04

  This could be a video of a real wildebeest getting eaten by a croc and they just added the leopard to the back.

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  That very well could be.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  It's pretty amazing, look, see?

• 1:03:09Speaker 03

  No, that's a fake croc.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Oh, this is different.

• 1:03:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it's all fake.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  No, bro, that's real. Guys, stop. This is different, this one's different, because this one, the wildebeest... Also, by the way, the wildebeest is doing way too well in that struggle.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  Because when the crocodiles do get wildebeest, they get them quick.

• 1:03:24Speaker 04

  The leopard got on this one.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  Someone put some time into this.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, when the crocs get a hold of something, it's really, it's a rap.

• 1:03:33Speaker 03

  Dude, I just did...

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  It's not much of a struggle.

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  I just did, I'm probably not supposed to talk about this yet, but I just did this show for Discovery that I've been working on for a couple of years, where, uh, basically I put myself in the perspective of prey, so I would have been in the perspective of that wildebeest, through engineering and doing all these like builds and stuff like that, and I lowered myself into a pond of crocodiles. It was insane, I had a cage around me, so, a very small cage, it was basically a coffin.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  Made out of what, though? What's a cage made out of?

• 1:04:00Speaker 03

  Whatever the guys in the workshop could find, I think steel.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Did they try it out first?

• 1:04:04Speaker 03

  No, I mean, we tested it with nothing in it and we're like, "Okay, this is working." I could send it to Jamie, I have it on my phone, but it was, uh...

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Send it to Jamie!

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  Okay, dude, it was crazy. It was nuts.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Why would you do that?

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  I don't know, man.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Well, it's like those shark cages, man, those things don't hold up. You've seen that before, right?

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, where they go straight through the shark cage?

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's craziness, it's absolute craziness, I'll find, here we go. Dude, we did, I don't know why I did... Oh, you know what, Jamie, go on the, if you don't mind, go on the Discovery Instagram, I think it's there. Good, good luck finding it, I can send you something in the meantime, but, um, I think they posted like a short teaser of it. It was nuts, though. So I'm in this little cage, we rigged up these cables, just...

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  Were you wearing scuba gear, or what?

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  So I had a scuba tank with me in case the thing broke and I ended up on the bottom.

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  Sounds dumber out loud.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  And then you have so much oxygen before they can get you out?

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  30 minutes, 30 minutes before, yeah.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  Oh, God, dude.

• 1:04:59Speaker 03

  And then I was, I was talking to our guy, so, you know, it was a TV production, so there's like stunt coordinators and all this stuff, and I was like, "So, okay, cable snaps, I go down, I grab the regulator, I've got 30 minutes, 40 minutes in my tank, then what?" He's like, "Oh, well, I have this grappling hook, we'll throw it, hook it with the grappling hook and pull it out." I'm like, "Bro, what if you hit a log?" He's like, "Hmm, hadn't thought about that." I'm like, "How are you getting me out of here?"

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Not only that, that easily could take more than 30 minutes.

• 1:05:23Speaker 03

  Of course it's gonna take more than 30 minutes.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  So you might have to get out and swim?

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  Oh, I couldn't.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  And can you get out?

• 1:05:28Speaker 03

  I couldn't, I locked myself into the cage, there was no getting out.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  You did this?

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was pretty dumb. It was fun, it was cool, though, because it was such a unique perspective. But I told my wife when I got home from that one, I was like, "Yeah, I think this is my last year doing this shit." Like, it's getting too, too much now.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  That's the thing about those kind of shows, it's like, it's not enough to just see the animals. You have to do something that makes it spectacular enough, get people to tune in. Like that polar bear one where the guy got in that big plexiglass box?

• 1:05:55Speaker 03

  That literally inspired the whole series, I swear to God.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  Oh, I hate that video.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  I mean, I watched it 100 times.

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  I know, me too.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  I don't hate it, but I hate the idea of it, because it just shows you how predatory polar bears are and how they don't give a fuck. It's just trying to get at that guy.

• 1:06:11Speaker 03

  Isn't it crazy? Yeah, it's gnarly.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  I mean, just actively hunting him.

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  It's so different than the other bears, which is like, if you get killed by a grizzly, generally it's like, you fucked up.

• 1:06:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Like, you stumbled upon one that's old.

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  Startled it.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, or you startled it, or, you know, you zig when you should have zagged.

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  Have you seen the city in Russia, the abandoned island city where the polar bears have taken over?

• 1:06:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:06:36Speaker 03

  Oh, you gotta see this, it's incredible.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  I've seen videos of Russia of people like getting chased by polar bears in their town.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, there's like the one where the guy jumps on the snowmobile and like runs after him and stuff.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Barely gets away.

• 1:06:48Speaker 03

  There's a whole area in the Bering Sea that was, uh, I want to say a former mining town or maybe fishing town, and people moved out, because it collapsed for whatever reason. This place, look at this, and the polar bears have just moved into town.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Oh, they're living in the house.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  They're living in the house, look at this.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  Oh, they, they took it over as a den.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  Completely took it over.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  How cool is this?

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  They're just fully moved in, like, living in the house, that's a drone shot, but they're, this is not AI, this was legit.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  They're so cool looking.

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  Oh, they're the coolest.

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  They're so interesting.

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  How amazing is that, though? Imagine like, imagine you're out on a boat and you're like, "Oh, man, we've been sailing for three weeks." "Oh, look, there's like a little village, let's pop in there for a day."

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  That should, that'd be a cool movie.

• 1:07:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, that would be a good movie.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? A bunch of people like, "Oh, we found a village, let's go there."

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  You like head in and turn, you know, like, set up and the, and then all of a sudden you're surrounded?

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's all polar bear, you're like, "Why is there so much shit in this house?"

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Because they probably just shit right in the house.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  So they're pawing at the drones.

• 1:07:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  Wow, look how cool they're hanging out the window, like, "Hey, Tom!" "Come on over, have a drink."

• 1:07:55Speaker 03

  "You could put me in the glass box on this island, this looks so cool."

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  It is so cool, they're, they're an amazing animal.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  They really are.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  But they're, they're so weird. They're so long, too.

• 1:08:05Speaker 03

  I went and did a, a sort of a trek with them.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  What, Jamie?

• 1:08:08Speaker 04

  Where are they getting food on that island, if they're the only ones there?

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  Oh, well, they're the only ones there, but it's not, they're seals and all kinds of other shit.

• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  They'll be hunting all the marine mammals in the area.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're, they're the cleanup crew.

• 1:08:20Speaker 03

  And they swim huge distances.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, man.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  A couple have turned up in Iceland, did you know that?

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's, I think, two or three cases of polar bears that have swum from Greenland to Iceland and made it.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  How far is that?

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  I'm not sure, but it's not close, obviously.

• 1:08:34Speaker 02

  That's crazy!

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  Took the Vikings like 100 years to do it, yeah, so...

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  They can swim that far?

• 1:08:40Speaker 04

  200 miles.

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  200 miles.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  Are you, hopefully this isn't a myth, are you seeing...

• 1:08:45Speaker 04

  This one says it was shot dead after it did it, in 2008.

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it swam across, right?

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, they don't get off, they don't want to.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  200 miles?

• 1:08:55Speaker 03

  How crazy is that? Just take a swim one day and end up colonizing an entirely new place.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  So it's like the David Goggins of polar bears? Where it says, "Bro, I can make it."

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  Feel no pain.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  "Operation to Kill the Animals captured on film, let's fucking go."

• 1:09:09Speaker 04

  That's a 20-year-old video, it might not...

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  Let's fucking go, let's see that video.

• 1:09:12Speaker 04

  It's got an error, 404.

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  Ah!

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, but isn't that crazy, 200-mile swim? As a bear?

• 1:09:19Speaker 04

  There, yeah, this says it might have, well, jumped off just a piece of ice somewhere, so it could have, you know, got a little float.

• 1:09:24Speaker 02

  Right, it could have hung out for a little bit.

• 1:09:26Speaker 04

  Swam to shore, but still, even 50 miles is...

• 1:09:28Speaker 03

  It's pretty far.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Well, they can last so long with the fat that's on their body.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  And they like snooze float, have you seen that? They'll like, they won't just like actively swim, they'll like, kinda like snooze float in between hunting.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:09:41Speaker 03

  It's kind of amazing, because in the winter, they have so much fat, you know, that, or, uh, yeah, in the winter, stored up, getting ready to chill, because they don't eat as much during the summer, am I getting this right? I think so.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:51Speaker 03

  Um, that they, they, like, yeah, you see them like snooze floating in the ocean.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  Well, they eat a lot in the summer to get ready for the winter, right?

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  Uh, they're meta, I know they eat a lot, in midsummer, they don't eat a lot, it's too hot for them to actively hunt.

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:10:06Speaker 03

  I know that.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  Really? How hot is it too hot for them to actively hunt?

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  Dude, I went to Manitoba, Canada, to go see them on foot, and it was like 75 degrees at the height of the day, or maybe 70, and, uh, uh, yeah, they, uh, they wouldn't be hunting.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  "Polar bears were frequently tamed during the Middle Ages." What? Says, "No bear's been captured alive in Iceland." "Oh, but since then, receding North Pole ice is diminishing their hunting and mating grounds and jeopardizing their survival."

• 1:10:35Speaker 04

  Oldest sighting in Iceland was 890.

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  Whoa!

• 1:10:39Speaker 04

  16 years after the first people got there.

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  But what's crazy, if you...

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  What's crazy, if you think about that, is all it would take, if people weren't there, is two polar bears over the course of polar bear's lifetime to wash up on the island, and then you have a population of polar bears there.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:10:56Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:10:57Speaker 03

  The male swims there, five years later, the female swims there, boom, there's a population of polar bears. There's plenty of food, you know?

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  What an adventurous female it'd have to be.

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  True.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  "1252, Henry III took delivery of a white bear, sent to him as a gift from King Hakkan IV of Norway. He decided to keep it in the Tower of London. The bear was either too big or too exciting to be taken to Oxfordshire, where there had been a royal menagerie at Woodstock since Harry, the, Henry I's reign. What's more, it needed to fish. So the beast was sent to the Tower, and from what we could tell, it was well looked out for, although it had a muzzle and a chain to wear while on land. The sheriffs of London were obliged to lay out more than a shilling a week for its upkeep, which, uh, added up over a year to roughly the expected income of a knight."

• 1:11:47Speaker 03

  What a wild story.

• 1:11:48Speaker 04

  They had no guns to stop them, what the hell would you do with them?

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  Bows and arrows, I guess, and spears. "The bear had a long swimming leash. The, the man wore waterproof clothes." What? The keeper, so it had a keeper. The bear came with a Norwegian keeper and the keeper was allowed to lead fishing trips into Thames. How do you say that, Thames?

• 1:12:10Speaker 03

  The Thames River, yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  Which, uh, the tower sat, the men wore waterproof clothes, again built to the crown. The bear had a long swimming leash. There were salmon in the Thames in those days. So while being in London was probably not half as so pleasing, the bear sitting on an ice floe in the Arctic Circle, it sure beat working.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  The way this guy wrote this is hilarious, by the way.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:33Speaker 03

  They, uh, do you know what a sloth bear is?

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Speaker 03

  Mean as anything.

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're in Japan, right?

• 1:12:38Speaker 03

  Uh, India, India and into Nepal and that area. Um, amazing, they're like a perfect example of not the size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog, because they're not a very big bear, but they will take on tigers and everything else. They, um, a certain group, I don't know the name of them, a tribe, I think in India, used to capture sloth bears and they'd put a, a ring in its nose, like, like a nose ring. And then this barbaric, it doesn't happen anymore. But then they would take the bear onto the street as a street performer. I just read about this and they would light a fire and put like a big sheet metal over it. And then walk the sloth bear onto it so the bear would dance because its feet were burning. Yeah. Um, and, uh, yeah, they called it the dancing bears. I guess it was in Nepal.

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  And, uh, yeah, it was a horrific thing that people used to do.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  People are so rude.

• 1:13:26Speaker 03

  Imagine doing that though and being like, oh, this will be, this will be worth a shilling or two, like.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  Well, bear baiting, they used to do that with dogs. They used to have a chained up bear and they would allow dogs to fight the bear.

• 1:13:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  They did that with bulls.

• 1:13:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  You know, they'd have a chained up bull and have dogs attack the bull.

• 1:13:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, they used, in South Africa in the early colonial days, they used to do it with baboons and let the dogs and the baboons fight and bet money on it. Yeah.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  People are so gross.

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  It's crazy. It's, it, but you know, like, I always have this weird stance, do I agree with any of it, of course not. But we wouldn't be where we were and care about wildlife and conservation if we hadn't made some of those mistakes.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

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• 1:15:33Speaker 02

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• 1:16:14Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  It's also, if you hadn't seen half of your friends get cut in half by swords, you're probably, like, your understanding of the value of life is probably completely distorted.

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  Completely, yeah.

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  You're living in a horrific time. Everyone's dying of the plague.

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  Violence is entertainment.

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:16:31Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean? Like, that is something to do and life value is incredibly low. Like, life comes and goes.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  The Colosseum was when? When was that?

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  I don't know. I should, but I don't, yeah.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  I think it was 2000 plus years ago? Somewhere around there? When they first started having these crazy games there?

• 1:16:48Speaker 03

  Do you know they used to flood the Colosseum and do ship battles and things?

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went there a few years back and we went on a tour.

• 1:16:53Speaker 03

  Was it cool?

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  Oh, it was amazing.

• 1:16:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  But it's also like you stand there and you try to take it in. Like, when I go to these ancient places, I try to just like sit and just try to imagine. Like, when you're actually, it's one thing to imagine when you're looking at a photograph or a video, but when you're actually in the spot.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  You know, like when you're in Athens.

• 1:17:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  And you're like, yeah, standing at the Parthenon, you're like, okay, what the fuck was this like?

• 1:17:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  What was this like?

• 1:17:19Speaker 03

  And that was like the center of everything.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  Everything, democracy.

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah, exactly.

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  And also drugs, those guys were high as fuck. They were all doing drugs.

• 1:17:29Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  We went to Eleusis, Eleusis, Eleusis rather? And, uh, that's the place where they had the Eleusinian mystery schools and they would, people would go on this trek where they wouldn't eat and they'd walk from Athens and they would have these psychedelic rituals. And, you know, you're in this place where they did it and you could like feel it, it's weird.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, obviously not synthetic, but were they, was it just mushrooms? What were, what were these psychedelics?

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  Totally no, but they have had residue from some of these clay pots that had ergot in it.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  What's ergot?

• 1:18:00Speaker 02

  So ergot is a fungus that has a very similar psychoactive effect as LSD.

• 1:18:06Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  It's, uh, I think it has lysuric acid in it. Like, what, let's find out what the, what, what, what actually, it also kills people. There's been cases of ergot poisoning through wheat.

• 1:18:19Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  People have died. And they also think it's connected to the Salem witch trials.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  Oh, driving people crazy?

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Yes. So the Salem witch trials, I don't know if this has been proven or if this is just a theory, but the idea is that if you have an early frost and that some of the wheat survives, but the wheat can have this fungus on it that grows ergot.

• 1:18:39Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:18:40Speaker 02

  So this ergot fungus. And so you're eating this wheat and you're making beer out of it and like, everybody's tripping balls. I think, alright, it's a fucking witch. You're all like, on accidental acid.

• 1:18:51Speaker 03

  That's hilarious.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  Probably like, wow, and this beer is really good.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:55Speaker 03

  Until there's a witch. And then you're like, man, this beer is bad.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  Well, there's also, I mean, imagine, first of all, you've got a bunch of crazy superstitions and people are afraid of everything already.

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:05Speaker 02

  You don't know anything about science.

• 1:19:07Speaker 03

  You don't understand a thing, yeah.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  So there's a lot of fears. And then there's a lot of people that claim to be the wise people of the, of the town and they tell you crazy stories about witches and you're like, oh, witches are real.

• 1:19:16Speaker 03

  Yep, oh, for sure.

• 1:19:18Speaker 02

  So lysuric acid, uh, amides, um, ergometrin, all these share, uh, lysuric acid, ergoline core, which is why LSD semi synthesized from lysuric acid is chemically related to ergot compounds.

• 1:19:38Speaker 03

  And all of this comes from that mold on the wheat?

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  Wasn't there a time where they, they did it to people on purpose in France? I feel like this might've been like a CIA thing. See if you can find that story.

• 1:19:52Speaker 03

  Ergot or LSD?

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  Ergot.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  I think they, they, they, because I think they were experimenting on the effects of ergot and I think they like picked a town and said, let's see. Because we know they've done that before. We definitely know they've like.

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  And just hit whole places.

• 1:20:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's see, let's see.

• 1:20:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, why not?

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  Like, think about like, uh, what we found out during MKUltra that the CIA was running brothels and they would give the Johns LSD.

• 1:20:20Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  It was literally called Operation Midnight Climax. And so what they would do is they would have these two-way mirrors set up. This is proven. This guy named Jolly West, who was the head of MKUltra.

• 1:20:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:20:31Speaker 02

  Who would, they would say, let's find out what happens. You give people acid, what's the best way? Well, you get a bunch of people and do it to them in a way that, you know, totally unethically, but this is a way they're not going to tell that you did it to them because they went to a whorehouse. Like, no one's going to admit they went to a whorehouse.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  So you get these guys, they go to the, get to prostitute, the prostitute's like, would you like a drink? Like, oh, I'd love a drink.

• 1:20:50Speaker 03

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:20:51Speaker 02

  Oh, hard day at, hard day at work here. The guy sits down, he's thinking, I'm gonna fuck, this is gonna be great. And next thing, he's got a fucking wall to open.

• 1:21:00Speaker 03

  Tripping balls, oh my god.

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  The candles talking to him.

• 1:21:02Speaker 03

  Did you find anything about the French thing?

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  Here it is. I likely think of the infamous

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  Cursed bread.

• 1:21:09Speaker 02

  Saint Esprit cursed bread incident of 1951. Long running allegation that wasn't ergot at all, but a secret CIA US Army LSD experiment. What happened in Pont Saint Esprit? This small town in southern France, hundreds of residents suddenly suffered violent hallucinations, convulsions, insomnia, and psychotic episodes over several days. Two hundred and fifty people were affected, fifty were committed to asylum, seven died, including some who leapt from windows convinced they could fly or being chased by snakes and tigers. The official French investigation blamed ergot contaminated rye flour from a local baker. Uh, classic ergotism, uh, Saint Anthony's Fire.

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  That's another case of it. Some later scientists, or maybe the same story. Uh, some later scientists propose alternative culprits, mercury fungicide, nitrogen, trichloride, bread bleaching agents, or mycotoxins from Aspergillus fumigatus? Fumigatus?

• 1:22:16Speaker 03

  I call bullshit on this. This seems like something where they test.

• 1:22:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  It seems like a CIA thing.

• 1:22:22Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:22:22Speaker 02

  Two thousand nine, American investigative journalist HP Albere- Alberelli, Alberelli, Jr., uh, published a terrible mistake, arguing that Pont Saint Esprit was actually a covert LSD field test run jointly by CIA's MK, yeah, MKUltra programs and the US Army Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick with Swiss drug company Sandos, who first synthesized LSD, allegedly supplying the compound. So his evidence included a declassified CIA document quoting a Sandos representative saying the Pont Saint Esprit secret is being discussed alongside references to LSD. Oh, they definitely did it.

• 1:23:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it sounds way more likely.

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  That's way more likely. Uh, a testimony he attributed former CIA SOD scientist Frank Olson, who died in a nineteen fifty-three fall from a New York City hotel room after being dosed with LSD by his colleagues.

• 1:23:22Speaker 03

  What a bunch of assholes, seriously.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  These guys are just dosing each other and admitted MKUltra incident. Uh, interviews with former US intelligence officials. Why most historians remain skeptical. Serious pushback came quickly. So symptoms don't match LSD. Victims had gangrene-like vasoconstriction, weeks-long psychosis, and physical necrosis consistent with ergot alkaloids. Not a single acute LSD dose. Interesting. LSD is water soluble and heat sensitive, so baking bread would degrade it. The Sandos cable Albere- Alberelli cited is ambiguous and predates the incident in some readings. No corroborating documentation has surfaced despite extensive MKUltra declassification

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  since the nineteen seventies church committee hearings. Yeah, but the problem with that is like, one of the, one of the reasons why we know about MKUltra was evidence that they found that had been in storage. So, you know, when you say like Freedom of Information Act, they don't give you shit.

• 1:24:27Speaker 03

  They just bait you with a little bit here and there to go, oh, okay, we know now.

• 1:24:30Speaker 02

  They just tell you, we don't have any evidence. Go fuck yourself. I mean, look how hard it is to get the Epstein files. This is a guy that was alive

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  in two thousand nineteen, right?

• 1:24:39Speaker 03

  Right, where there were plenty of records of everything happening, yeah.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Exactly, and the internet, right?

• 1:24:43Speaker 03

  This, this reminds me, do you know about the Lyme disease?

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:47Speaker 03

  You know about this?

• 1:24:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:48Speaker 03

  Like the Plum Island thing?

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:50Speaker 02

  Seems very legit.

• 1:24:51Speaker 03

  I, like, I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist. This one to me is like a no-brainer.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  Well, it's also people want to say that Lyme disease has existed forever. Absolutely, true. Not to the extent that it exists today. Also, not as contaminant, like, not, not as, right.

• 1:25:09Speaker 03

  And spreading like crazy, like crazy, like it's just sweeping out west.

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  Not only that, Plum Island, they were absolutely doing gain-of-function research on ticks.

• 1:25:21Speaker 03

  It's known.

• 1:25:21Speaker 02

  And the idea was, the reason why they were doing it, and this is, this is all me, what I've read, I don't have any direct information.

• 1:25:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's still fun.

• 1:25:31Speaker 02

  But what they said was, what they were doing was engineering ticks with these diseases. So what they could do is they could spray them from planes and that would overwhelm the medical system of any, like, overwhelm a town.

• 1:25:43Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  Overwhelm their armies. You, you couldn't keep up and it would, they wouldn't be able to fight.

• 1:25:48Speaker 03

  That's right. And it could wipe out food sources. It had like multiple implications.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. So now we have these fucking creeps from the World Economic Forum that are talking about the dangers of eating meat, right? And about how people eating meat is what's wrong with the, that's why it's accelerating climate change, all horseshit. But they're saying it and they're saying that it is almost a moral obligation to create a tick or to create more ticks that would have this alpha gal in them.

• 1:26:18Speaker 03

  The one that makes you allergic to meat.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. They're saying that they want more of that?

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:23Speaker 03

  Bro.

• 1:26:23Speaker 02

  This guy was talking about, not only that, I have a buddy who has that, my friend Evan from Black Rifle Coffee.

• 1:26:29Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I know Evan, yeah.

• 1:26:31Speaker 02

  One of my best friends, love him to death. Evan has it bad and it fucks him up. It's not as simple as you're, he's allergic to red meat. Like, it fucks up all of his blood work. His body's a mess.

• 1:26:44Speaker 03

  And he picked it up hiking and hunting?

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  Picked it up, he got a tick and he didn't know and he got, he got bit. Um, my friend Bert Kreischer, his wife's family, half of them have this fucking problem now.

• 1:26:55Speaker 03

  No way.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:56Speaker 03

  Are they from the East Coast?

• 1:26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, East Coast. This, uh, it's the Texas Lone Star, it's Lone Star tick, it's not the Texas Lone Star tick, but this one tick

• 1:27:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  carries this thing and they think that that might perhaps be genetically engineered as well.

• 1:27:10Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  Because there was no alpha gal problem

• 1:27:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:27:14Speaker 02

  thirty, forty years ago, it just didn't exist. Now all of a sudden it's like ubiquitous.

• 1:27:17Speaker 03

  And it's everywhere. It's, it's spreading too. It's, yeah, it's crazy. I, I never used to think twice about getting a tick. I get ticks all the time hiking around doing the stuff I do. I never used to think twice about it. Now I'm terrified of it.

• 1:27:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm terrified of it.

• 1:27:29Speaker 03

  I'm terrified of it now.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  It's not just red meat, the Lyme disease is fucking devastating.

• 1:27:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you don't catch it early,

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:27:36Speaker 03

  it can fuck with you the rest of your life.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  Uh huh, yeah. I know multiple people that have it, including, um, Jim Miller, guy who fights in the UFC. He had it really bad.

• 1:27:44Speaker 03

  Jeez.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Um, and it fucked up his career for quite a while, but he got his diet under wraps and he figured out like what to eat, what not to eat, and now he's fine.

• 1:27:53Speaker 03

  Do you know about some of those other animal warfare things they used to do? Like the, the, um, spy tech they put in city cats? Do you know about this?

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:28:02Speaker 03

  Oh dude, there's some amazing ones.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  Spy tech and cats?

• 1:28:05Speaker 03

  So during World War Two, uh, Jamie would have to confirm what city this was in. Uh, I believe it was the Russians used to put little hearing devices in street cats because, because the, the Brits would go and meet in back alleys and have meetings, but there were feral cats everywhere. So they'd have all these cats running around with these wires in their brains and stuff and these little, little, yeah, acoustic kitties, that's it, the CIA. Dude, how crazy is this?

• 1:28:30Speaker 02

  Acoustic kitty was a Central Intelligence Agency project launched by the Directorate of Science and Technology in the late nineteen sixties, in the nineteen sixties, intended to use cats to spy on the Kremlin and Soviet embassies.

• 1:28:44Speaker 03

  In an hour-long procedure, a veterinary surgeon implanted a microphone in the cat's ear canal and a small radio transmitter at the base of its skull and a thin wire into its fur.

• 1:28:53Speaker 02

  Oh my god!

• 1:28:54Speaker 03

  How crazy, imagine that, you're just like having a secret meeting in a back cove, you know, back alley and there's a cat there just live streaming your conversation to the CIA.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  Go back up a little bit here, it says, due to the cat's sense of hunger, had to be addressed in another operation. What? Interesting.

• 1:29:14Speaker 02

  First acoustic kitty mission was an eavesdrop on two men in a park outside the Soviet Embassy in Washington DC. The cat was released nearby, but was hit and allegedly killed by a taxi almost immediately. It was probably, the thing was all fucked up. It probably couldn't get out, it's like, what is in my head? They put a wire in my head! Schizophrenic cat. However, this is disputed in two thousand thirteen by Robert Wallace, a former director of the Office of Technical Service, who said the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of training the cat to behave as required.

• 1:29:44Speaker 03

  Go fair.

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  And that the equipment was taken out of the cat, the cat was re-sewn for a second time and lived for a long and happy life afterwards. Lies!

• 1:29:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, come on.

• 1:29:53Speaker 02

  You fucking killed that cat.

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  It got hit by a taxi, but it was fine? And they took it out of its head?

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  Oh, but I mean, more than one cat, I'm sure, but, but this idea, the equipment was taken out of the cat? The fuck you did that? You, you spent money

• 1:30:06Speaker 03

  Come on.

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  taking the equipment out? Did you really?

• 1:30:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:30:09Speaker 02

  Or did you just kill the cat?

• 1:30:10Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  Fucking assholes.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  Dude, there's a few of these and the, the bats that would light fires, do you know about those ones?

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  Hold up. The military did not give up on its use of animals as spies. As of two thousand six, the Pentagon requested the creation of a cyborg, cyborg insects for use in espionage. The request was made by fucking DARPA, of course,

• 1:30:31Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  uh, of the Pentagon. Scientists at Cal Berkeley responded by creating a controllable cyborg beetle in October of two thousand nine. What?

• 1:30:41Speaker 03

  There's a, there's a cockroach under your carpet here listening to us somewhere right now.

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  They're not going to hear anything other than the stuff we already talked about.

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, true, true, true.

• 1:30:49Speaker 02

  The wonderful thing about having such a retarded show.

• 1:30:52Speaker 03

  Who cares? Just say it all anyway, yeah.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  Whoa, look at this!

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  Look at this.

• 1:30:57Speaker 02

  Look at this, there's a fucking battery in the beetle!

• 1:30:59Speaker 03

  Come on, that's badass. Look at the microchip on its back.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  It's amazing that the beetle can live through all this.

• 1:31:05Speaker 03

  That's pretty amazing.

• 1:31:07Speaker 02

  That's wild.

• 1:31:09Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:31:10Speaker 02

  And I, and I guess as these things have gotten smaller and smaller, as chips and battery technologies increased.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  Of course. Think of, think of your cellphone in oh nine compared to now.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  Right, right. Fucking wild, man.

• 1:31:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, there were a few of these. They used to light bats on fire and then they'd send them to roost. And then they'd burn down whole towns and things like that. That's going back even... Dude, there's spy pigeons where they put cameras. Like, there's a handful of these that the CIA tried.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  Well, how about what they did with dolphins?

• 1:31:39Speaker 03

  Oh, like the... Oh, well, you know the whole, the, um, not beluga. What's... Yeah, it was the beluga, the Russian spy whale?

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  I don't know that. I was talking about dolphins that they used to detonate things.

• 1:31:48Speaker 03

  Oh, tell me about it. I don't know much about it.

• 1:31:50Speaker 02

  They used dolphins as, like, literal distributors of warheads.

• 1:31:54Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 1:31:55Speaker 02

  Get a dolphin to go somewhere and then they'd blow them up.

• 1:31:58Speaker 03

  No way. Like a kamikaze dolphin?

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  I don't know the exact details of it because I got sad when I was reading about it. I was like, oh.

• 1:32:04Speaker 03

  Poor guy.

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  I have a deep attachment to dolphins. I fucking love dolphins.

• 1:32:08Speaker 03

  I always say anybody who hates dolphins has to be a bad person.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  I've had some experiences with them. I had one where I was, like, really high on edibles in Hawaii. And, um, the dolphins would jump out of the water near the boat and they'd look at you.

• 1:32:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  They'd look at you when they were jumping out of the water, like, "Look, look at me." Like, "Look, we're doing this thing."

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  And they're literally just playing?

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  They're playing. 100% playing. Because they came to the boat and they were jumping in the wake of the boat. And the more you would cheer and "Yay, look at that!"

• 1:32:38Speaker 03

  The more they do it.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  The more they were doing it. And they were having fun. And I was like, "These are incredible creatures."

• 1:32:43Speaker 03

  Oh, they totally pick up on your energy.

• 1:32:45Speaker 02

  So, the secret dolphin program began in 1959 to detect underwater mines and enemy divers. But I think they did stuff where they...

• 1:32:54Speaker 04

  I mean, whether this is correct or they just, like, changed the history, it says that they didn't do anything to harm humans or engage in combat. They, like, told their handlers to do it.

• 1:33:03Speaker 03

  The one that I've heard about is that they put them out ahead.

• 1:33:06Speaker 04

  They were just signifying in dark water because they could see stuff better than our current technology back then. So, they would echolocate and say, "Yo, we got something over here. Come check it out."

• 1:33:14Speaker 03

  That's what this is.

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  Well, how's the dolphin communicate that back to the people and how's it know what the person's intended?

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  That's pretty good, man. But I think there was some speculation that they actually used them as weapons, though.

• 1:33:30Speaker 03

  Well, have you seen Val... Not to transition off dolphins, but Valdemir? Valdemir, the Vladimir? I don't know. The Russian spy beluga?

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  Okay, this is a real thing. Like, 100%, this one's real. So, there was this beluga whale named Valdemir or Vladimir or something like that. And he turned up in Norway and he was escaped from a Russian spy program. And he had a harness with spy gear on him. This is him, right here. Look. Um, see the spy gear on him? It's like a whole thing. Um, and so the Russians had been training this whale as a spy and had harnesses and spy equipment on him. And then he just pieced out and turned up in, I want to say Norway. And then they followed him for a while and then he mysteriously got shot.

• 1:34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, mysteriously.

• 1:34:17Speaker 04

  Some things with the dolphin, like with the dolphin story, I don't know if this is accurate, but I did read this one time that we would, like, if we knew Russia was doing this, we would put some paperwork out that said, "Well, we've got dolphins that are, you know, blowing up mines."

• 1:34:29Speaker 03

  Just so you guys know.

• 1:34:30Speaker 04

  Now we gotta figure that out.

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:33Speaker 04

  Goose chases.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  That's a good point. That's a good point. It's like you never really know what's real.

• 1:34:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:34:37Speaker 02

  How cool do beluga whales look, though? Look at that thing. That looks like an alien.

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  Nah, they're super, super cool.

• 1:34:41Speaker 02

  I mean, look at that. That looks like, "We have come to your planet." "To discuss your use of nuclear power."

• 1:34:48Speaker 03

  And he would talk in that very calm tone.

• 1:34:51Speaker 02

  That looks like something that would be very calm. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high. It's nine times the national average.

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• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  Again, that's cardiff.co/rogan. Cardiff, borrow better.

• 1:36:23Speaker 03

  No, that was a... Yeah, this was a crazy story.

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  Well, you know the John Lilly research with dolphins? Do you know about that?

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  I'm not sure. Tell me about it.

• 1:36:30Speaker 02

  Okay. John Lilly is the guy who invented the sensory deprivation tank.

• 1:36:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. You have one of those, don't you?

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  Yes, we have one over here. John Lilly was the man who was the inspiration for the movie Altered States.

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:36:43Speaker 02

  So, John Lilly, who was this really interesting guy and was famously, like, out there with psychedelics. Like, he would, he would take intramuscular doses of ketamine and jump in the sensory deprivation tank.

• 1:36:58Speaker 03

  Oh, damn.

• 1:36:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:59Speaker 03

  Trying to unlock brain things.

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  My friend Todd actually did it with him.

• 1:37:03Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so John Lilly, who was also a pioneer in interspecies communication. So, they were trying to figure out how to communicate with dolphins. So, they set up a house. And this lady lived with the dolphins in the house to get the dolphin and trying to coach the dolphin. And the way, like, literally, she lived in water. So, the water was like, you know, four feet deep. And she lived with this dolphin. The problem was, the dolphin was super horny.

• 1:37:30Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 1:37:30Speaker 02

  And so, the only way that she could get this dolphin to cooperate was she had to jerk him off.

• 1:37:35Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:37:36Speaker 02

  So, she was jerking off the dolphin and somehow or another, they found out and they cut the funding for research.

• 1:37:42Speaker 03

  But she had to do it.

• 1:37:43Speaker 02

  That's what I said.

• 1:37:44Speaker 03

  You gotta do it. That's the job.

• 1:37:45Speaker 02

  It seems like she liked it, though. Look at her. The way she's hugging him. She's like, "Yeah." I mean, after a while, she probably did enjoy it a little bit.

• 1:37:53Speaker 03

  I mean, what else are you gonna do? You're stuck in a tank with a dolphin.

• 1:37:56Speaker 02

  The girl who talked to dolphins. So, is there a documentary on this?

• 1:37:59Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:38:00Speaker 02

  Ooh. Let's, uh, is there a clip?

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  Is it, like, blurry where you see her hand moving?

• 1:38:08Speaker 03

  The water turning white?

• 1:38:09Speaker 02

  So, I guess. But if she jerked the dolphin off, then the dolphin would try to talk to her. But the thing was, you can't really get them to... They can't make the noises that we want them to make. They don't have the ability. Like, it'd say, "Hi!" But it can't...

• 1:38:27Speaker 03

  Like, the vocal cords aren't there for it.

• 1:38:29Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 1:38:29Speaker 03

  That's one of the things where AI may actually start to make a huge difference.

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:38:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:38:34Speaker 03

  Because they are able to decipher a lot of, like, cetacean, like dolphin and whale, language now. And with enough of a database, they'll start to be able to say, like, "This means this, this means this."

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  Have they actively deciphered?

• 1:38:46Speaker 03

  It's, so, it's coming up to... So, basically, you know how AI works. You have to train it on something.

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  Is this the lady?

• 1:38:51Speaker 04

  I think so.

• 1:38:52Speaker 02

  She looks like the kind of lady that would do that.

• 1:38:56Speaker 03

  She's got a real dolphin jerk look to her.

• 1:38:59Speaker 02

  This is a crazy story.

• 1:39:01Speaker 04

  See this?

• 1:39:02Speaker 02

  "Listen to these orca whales imitate human speech."

• 1:39:04Speaker 04

  Says it's responding.

• 1:39:06Speaker 02

  Let me hear it.

• 1:39:08Speaker 03

  Oh, there's your guy.

• 1:39:08Speaker 02

  There's my guy.

• 1:39:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:11Speaker 02

  Let me hear it.

• 1:39:15Speaker 04

  Bye-bye.

• 1:39:17Speaker 04

  Bye-bye.

• 1:39:20Speaker 02

  Aw.

• 1:39:21Speaker 03

  It's getting there.

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  It's trying.

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:26Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:39:29Speaker 04

  Hello?

• 1:39:31Speaker 03

  It's amazing.

• 1:39:34Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:39:36Speaker 04

  One, two.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  I bet what it wants to say is, "Let me go, you fucking asshole." "Put me back in the ocean, you crazy bitch."

• 1:39:50Speaker 03

  Quit jerking me off and put me back in the ocean.

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  Maybe if they jerked off to killer whales, they wouldn't have killed him.

• 1:39:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, good point.

• 1:40:01Speaker 02

  It's like, you're like, just like SeaWorld alone. It's just, it's so awful. And it wasn't until tho- those, that documentary, what was it called?

• 1:40:09Speaker 03

  Blackfish.

• 1:40:10Speaker 02

  Blackfish?

• 1:40:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:11Speaker 02

  That was like the first one where people went like, "Hey."

• 1:40:13Speaker 03

  It was really eye-opening, yeah.

• 1:40:15Speaker 02

  "We shouldn't support this at all." I mean, I can't believe people still even go to fucking SeaWorld.

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  It's pretty crazy.

• 1:40:20Speaker 02

  Because it's basically prison.

• 1:40:21Speaker 03

  You know about those two in France that are trapped there?

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:40:24Speaker 03

  Oh, this is interesting. So there is basically a SeaWorld equivalent in France. And the government shut it down. I forget the, I'm sure we can figure it out, but it was shut down. But then the dolphins and the two orcas were not released. And the guy's like, "These are mine. I'm not releasing them. And I can't afford to release them or move them." So they've just been sitting in these abandoned tanks for, I want to say, a year now. Uh, maybe, maybe more. Yeah, this is it here, the race to save these two. Um, Jamie, I don't know if you can see if there's an aerial shot of it, but...

• 1:40:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, there is. I just saw it.

• 1:40:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, so they're just sitting in this thing. But, but it's closed. The guy can't afford to feed them because nobody's visiting. And then I believe the government just doesn't want to do anything about it because they're like, "We just wanted to shut you down. We don't want to actually like, do anything about it." So there's just these two orcas sitting in these tanks.

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  And how do they get food?

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  I mean, he's feeding them, but he's like doing it out of his pocket and it's like few and far between.

• 1:41:18Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 1:41:19Speaker 03

  So, yeah, it's, it's a crazy, they're, they're, yeah, the abandoned whales and they're just sitting in these tanks.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  We've had a, do you know who Phil Demers is? He's a guy who, uh, he helped shut down Marineland in Canada.

• 1:41:30Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, yeah.

• 1:41:31Speaker 02

  Which was an awful, awful place.

• 1:41:33Speaker 03

  Bad facility, yeah.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  There's so many of these fucking places like that. We see what they're doing and just like, "Oh, man, if we could understand them."

• 1:41:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  And we, we could, I think someday in the future, we're gonna look back at that, the way people today look back at slavery.

• 1:41:47Speaker 03

  Oh, totally.

• 1:41:47Speaker 02

  We're gonna say, "These are intelligent creatures. They just, they just don't have the ability to manipulate their environment like we do."

• 1:41:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:54Speaker 02

  But like, just dolphins. Their cerebral cortex is 40% larger than a human being's. So, something's going on in there and you think it's okay to put them in a swimming pool? That's crazy.

• 1:42:05Speaker 03

  Dude, it's the same thing like what I was talking about elephants. Their, their EQ, their emotional intelligence, we can't even comprehend it.

• 1:42:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:42:11Speaker 03

  Like, the way those animals feel, like the highs that an elephant experiences and the lows it experiences, are way bigger than the highs or lows that most humans, I think any human can experience. Like, their EQ is way bigger than ours. The trauma that they feel from losing a loved one, or from being abused or whatever it happens to be, is like 10x what humans can even emotionally comprehend.

• 1:42:32Speaker 02

  How do we know that?

• 1:42:33Speaker 03

  Based on their, their brain scans and whatnot. I don't know the specifics of it, but because that part of their brain is so much larger than ours.

• 1:42:40Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:42:41Speaker 03

  And so you have these, they might not have the same like, computative skills as we do mentally, but they have this emotional intelligence that's like so much deeper and broader than ours. At least, that's my belief.

• 1:42:52Speaker 02

  It is a weird thing with us where we only characterize intelligence as the ability to manipulate your environment.

• 1:42:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Speaker 02

  Like, "We, we want you to write a book."

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:43:01Speaker 02

  "I don't, I don't trust you. You're real? You're really smart? Make a house."

• 1:43:04Speaker 03

  Prove it.

• 1:43:04Speaker 02

  "Why don't you, why don't you, how come you don't have a rocket ship?"

• 1:43:06Speaker 03

  Right. Right, yeah.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  "If you're so smart, where's your phone?"

• 1:43:09Speaker 03

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  It's weird, it's weird, right?

• 1:43:12Speaker 03

  It's a weird way to look at things.

• 1:43:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's like, I think there's a part of people that recognize that this, this direction that people like, that this classification of intelligence

• 1:43:25Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  in that way is, is wrong. But I don't, I don't think we can really quantify it yet. And if AI really can decipher dolphin language, orca language, whale language, if they really can, and we realize that they're actually communicating, God, I would hope that would change our approach to how we deal with those things.

• 1:43:43Speaker 03

  I think it would.

• 1:43:43Speaker 02

  Because there's, I think they are sea people. They really do.

• 1:43:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:47Speaker 02

  They're just, they don't need to manipulate their environment. First of all, they can travel 3D.

• 1:43:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  They go up, they go down, they go across, they can hold their breath for an hour.

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:57Speaker 02

  They don't need to make a house.

• 1:43:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:43:59Speaker 02

  Their food is everywhere. Also, they're at the top of the fucking food chain.

• 1:44:03Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  They're orcas.

• 1:44:05Speaker 03

  And they're no- they're nomadic. They don't, they don't, we are not nomadic by trade. So we have to manipulate our environment to make it more comfortable.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  Well, we're so slow.

• 1:44:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:14Speaker 02

  They move so fast they can make a sunfish explode.

• 1:44:17Speaker 03

  Straight up, yeah, straight up.

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  We're so slow. Like, the fastest people, like, we just run into each other and knock each other unconscious. That's, that's what we could do.

• 1:44:25Speaker 03

  Fun to watch, though.

• 1:44:27Speaker 03

  Dude, uh, but I want to go back to what you said about, I, I agree, by the way, about orcas in captivity and whales and things like that. There's this huge anti-zoo movement that I just don't agree with, though. Like, I, I believe, I agree with you that in the future, we'll go, "Why did we keep animals the way we did?" And when you look at old zoos and concrete boxes and stuff,

• 1:44:46Speaker 02

  Uh-huh.

• 1:44:46Speaker 03

  but there's so much good that animals in captivity have done. Saving species, keeping things alive, connecting kids to nature. There's a, is a lot of gray area. There's Tiger King and there's fucking San Diego Zoo. You know what I mean? There's a lot of nuance to it.

• 1:44:59Speaker 02

  San Diego Zoo is an excellent example of a really great zoo.

• 1:45:02Speaker 03

  It's unbelievable. It's incredible.

• 1:45:04Speaker 02

  I've been to that place before.

• 1:45:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  Um, but I also went to that wolf place with you.

• 1:45:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  And that made me sad.

• 1:45:09Speaker 03

  I know. Yeah, I know.

• 1:45:10Speaker 02

  When we went there, I was bummed out, man.

• 1:45:12Speaker 03

  But at least they're rescuing them, you know, like...

• 1:45:14Speaker 02

  I know, but they also cut their balls off.

• 1:45:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:17Speaker 02

  That bummed me out hardcore.

• 1:45:18Speaker 03

  Otherwise, they all fight. I mean, but that's the gray area that you ha- like, what's the alternative? You know, it's like, they die.

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  Let them loose.

• 1:45:25Speaker 03

  But then none of, but only a few of them were pure wolves. You can't just let loose a wolf dog.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  That's true, too.

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  You know, because then you're muddying genes. It's such a complicated thing.

• 1:45:33Speaker 02

  Well, isn't that the whole reason why black wolves exist in the first place? I think black wolves exist because it's a trait that they got from domesticated dogs.

• 1:45:41Speaker 03

  I, I read that and then I read it was false and then I read it again. I don't know what the truth behind that is.

• 1:45:45Speaker 02

  Let's put it into perplexity.

• 1:45:46Speaker 03

  We should.

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  They'll probably say it's a Rogan-esque claim. Cock-suck.

• 1:45:50Speaker 03

  Has stated on today's podcast, yeah.

• 1:45:52Speaker 02

  How do you want to word that so you kind of get a good response back? That's interesting. How do you word that? Um, would you say, um, is it true that black wolves inherited that trait from domesticated dogs? Because that is one thing that absolutely has happened, is that there's been interbreeding between.

• 1:46:12Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:12Speaker 02

  And not just on purpose.

• 1:46:14Speaker 03

  No, no. Yeah.

• 1:46:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:15Speaker 03

  It happened, yeah. I mean, you get coy wolves and, yeah, it does. Yeah, yeah. Is the genetic mutation of a black fur color brought about by domestication?

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, okay, well, hold on.

• 1:46:27Speaker 03

  Sorry. Throwing a lot at you, Jamie.

• 1:46:31Speaker 02

  Is it, is the black, the trait of black wolves, did they inherit that from domesticated dogs? Edit my thing, then. Is that actually good enough or not? Uh, eh. From domesticated dogs?

• 1:46:45Speaker 03

  I would, yeah. Yeah, see, see what it says.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  Let's see. Do, do, do. If you're not pointed enough, it'll start guessing what you're saying. I love watching it work. Where it's like spinning. Yes. This is well-supported by genetic research. Black coat color in North American wolves comes from mutation in the K locus especially, specifically, excuse me, a three-base pair deletion in the CBD 103. Uh, I don't know what that little thing is.

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  Defense in gene.

• 1:47:18Speaker 03

  Beta defense.

• 1:47:19Speaker 02

  Is that what it is?

• 1:47:20Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:47:20Speaker 02

  Uh, "Produce is a dominantly inherited melanistic phenotype. The mutation originated in dogs and moved into wolves through hybridization, not the other way around."

• 1:47:30Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 1:47:30Speaker 02

  2009 study by Anderson et al. first identified the KB black allele in wolves is derived from dog-wolf interbreeding.

• 1:47:40Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:47:40Speaker 02

  Follow-up work analyzing 331 wolves and 20 dogs, found that North American wolf,

• 1:47:48Speaker 02

  how do you say that word? Haplotypes?

• 1:47:50Speaker 03

  Oh, haplotype, yeah.

• 1:47:51Speaker 02

  Uh, are monophyletic, meaning a sing- I feel like you're my teacher. A single...

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  Good job, Joe.

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  Introgression event from dogs, most likely seeded, uh, the allele through the continent, probably in the Yukon or North, Northwest Territories. Um, you know, I, um, went to where Colossal

• 1:48:15Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  made the dire wolves.

• 1:48:17Speaker 03

  Ben texted me when you guys went.

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  That was an interesting experience.

• 1:48:20Speaker 03

  Was that cool to see?

• 1:48:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  I haven't even seen him. I know it's a whole hush-hush, you know?

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  I brought my youngest daughter and she was cuddling with the four-month-old wolf.

• 1:48:28Speaker 03

  Well, there you go.

• 1:48:28Speaker 02

  You can cuddle with them when they're four months old, up until a certain point, but it was like a puppy.

• 1:48:32Speaker 03

  And it was still huge, right?

• 1:48:33Speaker 02

  It was, no, no, no, no. No, it was pretty small.

• 1:48:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  It's like, uh...

• 1:48:39Speaker 02

  Forty pounds?

• 1:48:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  Something like that.

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:48:41Speaker 02

  It was so fucking cute, man.

• 1:48:43Speaker 03

  White and fluffy.

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  She was so sweet.

• 1:48:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  She was so sweet. She would cuddle with you and you'd pet her and she'd kiss you.

• 1:48:48Speaker 03

  That's cool.

• 1:48:48Speaker 02

  It was like a fucking dog, man.

• 1:48:50Speaker 03

  That is a, yeah, Romulus. There you go.

• 1:48:52Speaker 02

  Oh my god, she's so sweet. But the males, they had two males that had...

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  Khaleesi's a female.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  That's her name, that's right. Khaleesi's the girl. So there's Romulus, look how cute they are when they're little babies.

• 1:49:05Speaker 03

  And Remus.

• 1:49:05Speaker 02

  Remus, Romulus, and then Khaleesi, the girl.

• 1:49:08Speaker 03

  That was pretty cool.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  So Khaleesi was the one that we got to cuddle with.

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  And they're cute.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  Oh my god, she was so fucking adorable. But you could only hang out with her for a little while and then they got big.

• 1:49:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:19Speaker 02

  And now they're big.

• 1:49:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:20Speaker 02

  He sends me pictures of her. So they were like that when we went there.

• 1:49:23Speaker 03

  Like that size picture?

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  Like that size.

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  That's already a... I don't know if I let my kids in with a wolf that size.

• 1:49:28Speaker 02

  Well, they kept away from you.

• 1:49:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  And we were in a large, contained area.

• 1:49:32Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:49:33Speaker 02

  Um, but we got to go out with them.

• 1:49:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  And they just kinda hang out and look at you. They keep away from you for the most part, but she didn't.

• 1:49:41Speaker 03

  She just came right up.

• 1:49:42Speaker 02

  But she can't be with them yet.

• 1:49:43Speaker 03

  With the males?

• 1:49:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, she was too little.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 1:49:46Speaker 02

  It was too like, you know, they didn't want her to get killed. And it was just too sketchy.

• 1:49:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  She was tiny.

• 1:49:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:51Speaker 02

  And she was, you know, she was still a baby still. But they were older. I think they were a year or close to a year. But they could hang out with them for the first like five or six months, I think.

• 1:50:01Speaker 03

  Oh wow.

• 1:50:01Speaker 02

  And then after a while, they just got different. There's also some stuff about them that they didn't even know dire wolves had, like the mane.

• 1:50:08Speaker 03

  They're getting a big, a big arch mane?

• 1:50:10Speaker 02

  They have a mane.

• 1:50:11Speaker 03

  Oh wow.

• 1:50:11Speaker 02

  Like, almost like a lion's mane.

• 1:50:12Speaker 03

  Oh wow.

• 1:50:13Speaker 02

  Which they didn't know, and they didn't know they were gonna be white either.

• 1:50:16Speaker 03

  Now, is that a variant from their genetic mutation work? Or is that something that's just expressing itself?

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  Very good question that you'd have to talk to a geneticist about. Because like, there's a lot of people that don't even agree they're actually dire wolves.

• 1:50:26Speaker 03

  A lot, yeah, a lot, yeah.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  They're essentially saying that what you've done is you've taken the traits of dire wolves and you've made them be expressed in a gray wolf. This is a gray wolf.

• 1:50:35Speaker 03

  But that's what Beth says they've done. Do you know what I mean? Like, she's, she's not, they're not hiding that. They're like, we're trying to fill a niche. We're trying to make something.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:50:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  But she's also said that, I think, I don't wanna mischaracterize, but essentially what they're saying is, but that's what a dire wolf was.

• 1:50:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  Like, that they are a wolf that has all of these traits.

• 1:50:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  Like, the size is the same, the look is the same. You can get technical and say, no, you've taken a gray wolf and made it express... But yes, but they got those genes specifically from dead dire wolves.

• 1:51:06Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:51:07Speaker 02

  So it's like, well, what is it? Is it our own classification of these things that we're disputing?

• 1:51:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:51:12Speaker 02

  Because we can't just decide, like, that this, I call this a dire wolf and that's what it is? Like, the genes don't give a fuck what labels you put on them.

• 1:51:21Speaker 03

  Not at all.

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  You know? And if you make a dinosaur, like, that's not a real T-Rex. It ate everyone in the city.

• 1:51:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:51:26Speaker 02

  It's a real T-Rex. It just took over a fucking city and it just ate everyone in a VW bus.

• 1:51:31Speaker 03

  It's a thirty foot tall lizard, it's a dinosaur. Like, it doesn't matter how you shape it, yeah.

• 1:51:35Speaker 02

  Oh, the woolly mouse is really cool, too.

• 1:51:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're really neat. Ben, Ben told me one day I could have a woolly mouse, so I'm holding him to that, yeah.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  It's, it's really interesting seeing the dire wolves, though, and just imagining, wow, what was it like when those things are just roaming the earth?

• 1:51:50Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  Cause it's like a two hundred pound wolf that's all white with like thick fur and a mane, like a lion.

• 1:51:55Speaker 03

  Dude, speaking of roaming the earth, have you heard the theory about how sloth bears stopped... Sorry, not sloth bears, what were the big cave bears in North America? Short-faced bears stopped human immigration?

• 1:52:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:52:07Speaker 03

  Have you read about that? Yeah, that's really cool.

• 1:52:09Speaker 02

  Totally makes sense.

• 1:52:10Speaker 03

  It totally does. They just stood there waiting for people like salmon to cross the Bering land bridge. And they're like, well, it's that time of year again.

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  Also, like, who would do that, knowing that those things are out there? That thing was so big.

• 1:52:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:23Speaker 02

  It's like double the size of a polar bear.

• 1:52:25Speaker 03

  It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  A twice-large polar bear that is, can run fifty mile... Look at that thing!

• 1:52:32Speaker 03

  I don't care how smart we are, that is not something you wanna face.

• 1:52:35Speaker 02

  Right. Even if you have a gun, like, good luck. Like, if you have a nine-millimeter handgun and you run across a grizzly bear, you're dead.

• 1:52:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:42Speaker 02

  It's not gonna be enough firepower.

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  So, what are you gonna, what are you gonna hit that thing with?

• 1:52:46Speaker 03

  Well, they have rocks, so, you know, that's good. Rocks and spears, yeah.

• 1:52:50Speaker 02

  Rocks!

• 1:52:51Speaker 03

  Oh, rocks.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  I mean, when they first started coming across, did they even have fucking bows and arrows then? Yet?

• 1:52:56Speaker 03

  I, I don't know, yeah. But they, I mean, spears for sure, but like that?

• 1:53:00Speaker 02

  But then there's the, there's the real question. Is that the only way people got here?

• 1:53:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:53:05Speaker 02

  When you see the white sands footprints that are twenty-two thousand years old, and you start going, okay, well, this predates the Ice Age.

• 1:53:12Speaker 03

  That's before any humans were known anywhere in the New World.

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's like, well, what's going on there?

• 1:53:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:53:17Speaker 02

  Cause this is actual human footprints.

• 1:53:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  That have been dated to twenty-two thousand years ago.

• 1:53:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  And that's just all we found.

• 1:53:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:24Speaker 02

  That's just because they left footprints.

• 1:53:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  Like, that doesn't mean there wasn't something there fifty thousand years before, a hundred thousand years before.

• 1:53:30Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  And then there's in Mexico, this evidence that looks like predation on mammoth bones by humans.

• 1:53:38Speaker 03

  Oh, really? Like spearheads and things?

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  Carvings into mammoth bones.

• 1:53:43Speaker 03

  No way.

• 1:53:43Speaker 02

  And it looks like they're broken open to get marrow.

• 1:53:45Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:53:46Speaker 02

  Very disputed, right? Because there's also some people that think it could have been like some rocks falling on the bones.

• 1:53:52Speaker 03

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:53:53Speaker 04

  I'm not sure how this is happening, but it does think they...

• 1:53:56Speaker 02

  Oh, let me write this up for Joe. Fuck off!

• 1:53:59Speaker 04

  I'm gonna have to figure something out. I might have to erase some stuff.

• 1:54:02Speaker 02

  What, we're gonna have to get a, a, a separate computer that we only use for perplexity. Um, what is the question?

• 1:54:08Speaker 04

  Oh, sorry, um, well, how would humans have contested short-faced bears on the Bering Strait?

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  Let me write this up for Joe. Fuck off, man. Like a baby. Grounded in the actual evidence.

• 1:54:19Speaker 03

  The wall of monster bears kept humans out of North America doesn't hold up any longer, apparently.

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:54:26Speaker 04

  So, yeah, when I was telling you, people said it was a myth that someone, a scientist sort of commented on a paper that doesn't necessarily, he could have thought that, but they didn't really have evidence for it, I guess.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing. Like, the idea of a bear line, no. Cause the problem is, bears, they would have to eat so much to sustain that kinda mass.

• 1:54:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  That there couldn't really have been a lot of them.

• 1:54:48Speaker 03

  No, but it, it sure makes sense that they were predating upon people when they came across there.

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  Oh, hold up, hold up. Go back, go back up here. This, this guy's saying something kooky. He's saying that a hyper carnivore built for pacing long distance. He argued that it was primarily a scavenger using its size, sense of smell, and long-legged gait to klepto parasitize...

• 1:55:12Speaker 03

  You got it, there it is.

• 1:55:13Speaker 02

  Kills from lions, dire wolves, and scimitar cats rather than the rundown prey itself. That doesn't even make sense. Long-legged gait would make it faster.

• 1:55:22Speaker 03

  I, I, I heard about this. So, yeah, the theory is that short-faced bear would come in and rob a kill, like basically what a hyena does to lions?

• 1:55:31Speaker 02

  Or what wolves do to mountain lions.

• 1:55:32Speaker 03

  Yes, but I think it, to me, it doesn't add up.

• 1:55:35Speaker 02

  Well, you know grizzly bears chase down moose and kill them. There's plenty of videos. I watched a video yesterday of it.

• 1:55:41Speaker 03

  They've also shown now that hyenas are incredibly efficient predators. And until like ten years ago, we thought hyenas were only scavengers. Or fifty, I mean, it's longer than that, but you know what I mean? And now they show they have like a thirty percent success rate, which is very high.

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no reason why they wouldn't be if they're carnivores. Like, why would they be completely reliant on other animals to do the work for them when they have that kinda biting power?

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  They, they're just opportunistic, like all carnivores.

• 1:56:04Speaker 02

  And they move as packs.

• 1:56:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:06Speaker 02

  They work as pack animals, so they kinda move like dogs.

• 1:56:09Speaker 03

  If, if you're gonna get food, get food. You know what I mean? If you can kill it, kill it. If you can fight something off for it, fight something off for it. Like, it doesn't really matter. That's how carnivores are.

• 1:56:18Speaker 02

  What is this saying? What are you saying?

• 1:56:19Speaker 04

  It says this is how they hunted brown bears, they probably would've done it the same way.

• 1:56:22Speaker 02

  Oh, get them in the dens?

• 1:56:23Speaker 04

  And then, yeah, burn it, burn the entrance with fire, probably kill the babies.

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  Right, but that's if you had access to fire.

• 1:56:32Speaker 04

  They had an addle-addle and a spear at best, and maybe some fire that they could maybe move, you know?

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  You know how close you have to be to hit something with an addle-addle?

• 1:56:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:40Speaker 02

  Okay, there's, uh, there's some videos that are really interesting where they're showing people uh, realistic scenarios where a bear's charging you.

• 1:56:49Speaker 03

  Oh, and they pull the mace out?

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Showing bear spray and guns, like, showing them like, imagine you have a ten-millimeter semi-automatic pistol and you have to rack it, so you have to rack a slide. So the gun, the bear's coming, you have to draw the gun, rack it.

• 1:57:06Speaker 03

  Take the safety off.

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  And then point it towards the animal and squeeze it to, you're dead.

• 1:57:09Speaker 03

  You're done.

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  You're already dead.

• 1:57:10Speaker 03

  It's, it's like that.

• 1:57:11Speaker 02

  It has to be like a hundred yards away from you as it starts running for you to get a shot off.

• 1:57:16Speaker 03

  I think the, like, idea is the bear gives you some sign.

• 1:57:20Speaker 02

  Look at that bullshit-ass thing.

• 1:57:24Speaker 03

  I've tried one. It is impossible to throw accurately.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  Well, that's true, but you're not practiced in it.

• 1:57:31Speaker 03

  No, of course not. Yeah.

• 1:57:32Speaker 02

  I mean, I've seen people that are super accurate with spears.

• 1:57:36Speaker 03

  Isn't your buddy Adam Green Tree, doesn't he do the Atlatal?

• 1:57:39Speaker 02

  He might. He's such a psycho.

• 1:57:43Speaker 03

  I think I've seen him tossing them around.

• 1:57:45Speaker 02

  He probably knows how to do it. Yeah. But I mean, it's not a good weapon.

• 1:57:49Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:57:49Speaker 02

  I mean, it's definitely better than no weapon.

• 1:57:51Speaker 03

  I mean, what's the advantage over throwing a spear? It just goes further?

• 1:57:54Speaker 02

  Mechanical leverage. So it's, I have a thing like that for my dog. It's like a, it's like a thing.

• 1:58:01Speaker 03

  The ball.

• 1:58:02Speaker 02

  That has a ball on the end of it. And you can, it's so easy to not blow your shoulder out. You can throw it pretty fucking far.

• 1:58:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:58:08Speaker 02

  And then I, whenever, every time I do it, I was like, wow, of course, this is way better.

• 1:58:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:12Speaker 02

  You have this extra leverage with this thing. And then also you can kind of whip it with your wrists and you get all this action with the ball. You would do the same thing with a spear, with a Atlatal. Makes sense. Makes sense.

• 1:58:23Speaker 03

  Seems hard to be accurate, though.

• 1:58:25Speaker 02

  Super hard. Well, it's hard to be accurate with a traditional bow.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:58:28Speaker 02

  You know, it's so hard. Like, you know, I shoot a compound bow. And a compound bow is, uh, there's so much technology involved.

• 1:58:38Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  First of all, I have a laser rangefinder and I'll range something. It says 52 yards. Then I go to my sight tape that's on my, my sight on my bow and I dial it to 52 yards. Because I use archery software that measures the weight of my arrow. So I have this 500 grain arrow and then it has the speed per, so it's 390 feet per second from a 500 grain arrow. And then I put it into this computer and it spits out a sight tape so that I can move my pins specifically. So I could put it in a quarter at 52 yards if I was accurate enough. I'm not. No one really is. Except like really excellent world-class archers.

• 1:59:18Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:59:18Speaker 02

  With a traditional bow, you're just guessing.

• 1:59:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:21Speaker 02

  So you're just guessing the arc of the arrow. And then you have to think, okay, I'm buying arrows, right? That are made by a guy who's measuring them. They're all down to like, they're within two grains of each other. And they have like inserts. My front of center is very high.

• 1:59:38Speaker 03

  Perfect aerodynamics.

• 1:59:39Speaker 02

  And they're made out of carbon fiber. These fucking arrows, they're making them by hand. And then they're making the arrow heads by hand. So they could be off.

• 1:59:49Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:59:49Speaker 02

  Each one of them, like, so you're just guessing where that fucking arrow's gonna go. And you have to shoot every day to get a real sense of like what the drop is at a certain distance. And then you have to kind of judge, how far is he? Is he 20 yards? 30 yards? 50 yards? So even with modern traditional bows, and that's like, and that sounds like a...

• 2:00:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know what you mean. Recurves and long bows.

• 2:00:11Speaker 02

  Right, right. I mean, that sounds like an oxymoron, but they are still traditional in the sense of you're not using cams.

• 2:00:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:19Speaker 02

  Right? You don't have like a cam that rolls over and it's a mechanical advantage and fiberglass limbs and all this jazz. You're using like wood still, right? Even with those things, you're still buying arrows and the arrows weigh the same amount.

• 2:00:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're perfect.

• 2:00:33Speaker 02

  So if you did that over and over again in your yard, you did it every day for three hours a day, you would get a sense of how far. And then if you did it a bunch, you'd get an idea of judging distances. And there's like little tricks. There's certain archery tournaments where you're not allowed to use a rangefinder.

• 2:00:51Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 2:00:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so the idea is you have to develop the skill of being, and I think these tournaments probably started back when rangefinders didn't exist. And then when rangefinders did exist, they're like, nah, that's cheating.

• 2:01:05Speaker 03

  Keep that out. So, and then the targets are at various...

• 2:01:07Speaker 02

  Yes. And so guys develop a very good way of measuring distance.

• 2:01:14Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:01:15Speaker 02

  And what essentially they do is they, they can pretty accurately judge five yards and then they double that and then they triple that. And then they try to figure it. And they get within like 10 or 15 yards.

• 2:01:24Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:01:24Speaker 02

  But you, you know, that's a lot. Even with a compound bow, you know, that drop of 10 or 15 yards is pretty significant. Even something that's going 300 feet a second. But when you're doing with a fucking wooden arrow that you made yourself with a stone tip like, like one of these bad boys. I have one here somewhere. Somewhere on this desk.

• 2:01:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:45Speaker 02

  Here it is. So like, that, somebody made that. So if you make that one and then somebody else makes one right next to it, it might be 15 grains different. It might be 50 grains different.

• 2:01:55Speaker 03

  And the aerodynamics are different. Like the flint napping is completely different. Yeah.

• 2:01:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And this thing's not very, that's not good. That thing would plane like a motherfucker if you shot it out of a really good bow.

• 2:02:08Speaker 03

  And not to mention the stress of if I don't kill this thing, I'm either gonna die or I'm not gonna eat or, you know, all the other things.

• 2:02:14Speaker 02

  And you have a 15 foot bear.

• 2:02:17Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:02:18Speaker 02

  Or probably bigger. Like, what is the height of a short-faced bear or the length? Like, what is the, what is a big, short-faced bear?

• 2:02:26Speaker 03

  Have you seen those caves they have in like Missouri where they're still claw marks from short-faced bears and things?

• 2:02:32Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:02:32Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. You can go visit like middens of them in Missouri where they used to live.

• 2:02:36Speaker 02

  Carved out a cave, like a den?

• 2:02:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Where they lived in dens and you could see their claw marks in the mud and everything else. It's amazing.

• 2:02:44Speaker 03

  11 to 12 feet.

• 2:02:45Speaker 02

  11 to 12 feet. Uh, I, I think they probably have to be bigger than that because Kodiak bears get that big.

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  Kodiak bears can get 12 feet.

• 2:02:54Speaker 03

  Do they? They get that big? A Kodiak?

• 2:02:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, maybe they're measuring them squirrely. Cause you know, like a lot of times they measure stuff to try to make it seem bigger. So what is the largest Kodiak bear ever killed? Let's look, let's look that up. Largest Kodiak bear.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  Largest Kodiak bear ever killed.

• 2:03:17Speaker 02

  Ever recorded. There you go. Recorded the same thing. Okay. They have it by weight. Um, it's 1,656 pounds, which is, by the way, holy shit.

• 2:03:30Speaker 03

  It's insane. Yeah. Nearly a one-ton bear. Yeah.

• 2:03:34Speaker 02

  That's so big. Oh, the hind foot measured 18 inches. Oh, God. How tall was it? How long was it?

• 2:03:41Speaker 03

  Bear was 500 pounds more than that. Yeah. Over a ton.

• 2:03:46Speaker 02

  In a zoo?

• 2:03:47Speaker 03

  He was a zoo, yeah.

• 2:03:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, my God. But he might have been fat.

• 2:03:49Speaker 03

  He was fat.

• 2:03:50Speaker 02

  He might have been a short fatso.

• 2:03:55Speaker 02

  What is the, so what is the longest, the largest length?

• 2:04:00Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure he's sitting, I, I think I've seen this bear and he's sitting in the Anchorage airport when you land there.

• 2:04:05Speaker 02

  Oh, there's a big, is that that bear?

• 2:04:06Speaker 03

  I think that's the largest bear ever killed.

• 2:04:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've seen that in Anchorage. That's, that thing's nuts.

• 2:04:11Speaker 03

  At the airport there?

• 2:04:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. It's in like a glass case or something. Yeah.

• 2:04:16Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure that's the biggest bear ever, ever shot.

• 2:04:19Speaker 02

  Look at that one. Ever recorded. 2,130 pounds.

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  No, uh, no, no length measurements anywhere.

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  That is so big. That's so crazy. The short-faced bear, they're, they don't even really know how much it weighed. They're just basing it on the bones. Right? They don't have a dead one.

• 2:04:38Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:04:40Speaker 02

  So that, right, that photo up there, that's Fred Bear with his 1962 world record Alaskan bear. Go back to that photo that you just were at before. Yeah, look at that. That's his stuffed bear.

• 2:04:51Speaker 03

  Jeez.

• 2:04:52Speaker 02

  He shot that with a old bullshit bow.

• 2:04:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:55Speaker 02

  Look at his bow.

• 2:04:56Speaker 03

  The recurve bow, yeah.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  That bow sucks.

• 2:04:58Speaker 03

  Wooden arrows.

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  That's so crazy. He was the, the first like modern bow hunter.

• 2:05:06Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 2:05:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I mean, he's a guy who popularized bow hunting. Fred Bear's a legend.

• 2:05:10Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:05:11Speaker 02

  In the bow hunting world. And I mean, you gotta think, how mu, how good does life have to be? Where you go, let's try to do something that people used to do before guns.

• 2:05:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, just, just because.

• 2:05:23Speaker 02

  Cause it wasn't really a thing that people practiced.

• 2:05:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:05:27Speaker 02

  Like, the food had to be so readily available that we had to say, let's make it harder.

• 2:05:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, go backwards. Yeah.

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  Let's have so much food. Let's make it more difficult.

• 2:05:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:38Speaker 02

  And then there's guys today that they don't like compound bows because they're too hard, they're too easy.

• 2:05:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're using recurve only. Yeah. It's crazy.

• 2:05:46Speaker 02

  My friend Aaron Snyder, who's a, like a world famous bow hunter, went back to using a recurve bow.

• 2:05:52Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:05:52Speaker 02

  Cause it was killing too many things with a compound bow. Felt like it was too easy.

• 2:05:55Speaker 03

  But that's what happens, right? Is these guys master their, their craft and when they spend all that time on it. And then they're like, how do I make the challenge harder on myself?

• 2:06:02Speaker 02

  Also, they're competing with other world-class bow hunters. Like, they're all like, who's the man?

• 2:06:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. A bit of an ego stroke thing. Yeah.

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  There's a little bit of that, but it's also like, that's how they get good in the first place. Like, there's a weird thing about people in competition. You could say competition is bad. Like, okay, are you saying that on your phone? Cause how do you think you got a phone? You got a phone because somebody is competing against other people and they developed a phone. Like, it's just a different kind of competition.

• 2:06:27Speaker 03

  I, I think competition is essential to human culture.

• 2:06:30Speaker 02

  It's certainly essential to progress.

• 2:06:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:32Speaker 02

  And, and this is why socialism's never gonna work. You gotta reward people. And if they're not rewarded, they're not gonna work hard enough to do anything really spectacular.

• 2:06:40Speaker 03

  Why bother?

• 2:06:41Speaker 02

  So you're never gonna get a laptop. It would have never happened. You would have never had high-speed internet. Somebody has to profit wildly for them to be enthusiastic about spending 17 hours a day making something like that.

• 2:06:53Speaker 03

  But that's the joy of competition paying off.

• 2:06:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:55Speaker 03

  Right? It's like, I know, not so much with bow hunting, but if you're competitive as a person to the point that you succeed the most at developing a phone or a cup or whatever it happens to be, you win and you get paid the most.

• 2:07:05Speaker 02

  We just have to have regulations to make sure that those people don't run amok and then take over entire countries.

• 2:07:11Speaker 03

  And become a monopoly. Yeah.

• 2:07:13Speaker 02

  You know, like what was going on with Microsoft in the 1990s? You remember all those? Remember that?

• 2:07:17Speaker 03

  No, what was, how were they taking over?

• 2:07:19Speaker 02

  Bill Gates was a maniac. Like, but, but before, people think of Bill Gates now, well, now I think COVID kind of ruined his, people's impressions of him. Now they think of him as a vaccine pusher. But also as a philanthro capitalist, where he's doing philanthropy that makes millions and millions of dollars for him.

• 2:07:36Speaker 03

  Didn't he also put out that anti-protein film? Wasn't that him? Do you know what I'm talking about? I think Bill Gates' wife... Bill Gates, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bill Gates' wife is vegan, I believe. And he funded like some Netflix documentary all on how like bodybuilders get huge without protein.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  Are you thinking about James Cameron?

• 2:07:54Speaker 03

  Am I thinking about James Cameron?

• 2:07:56Speaker 02

  I know James Cameron's wife is vegan.

• 2:07:59Speaker 03

  I might be mixing them up.

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  You're, you're talking about game changers, that, the vegan documentary?

• 2:08:03Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah. With the huge jacked guy being like, I never touch protein.

• 2:08:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. It turns out, the, the problem, I think, if you're looking at that from an ethical perspective and you're saying factory farming is bad, I'm on your page. I'm with you.

• 2:08:18Speaker 03

  But that had an agenda.

• 2:08:19Speaker 02

  But yeah, it was a clear agenda. Also just not accurate.

• 2:08:22Speaker 03

  Anyway, I pirated your thing on Bill Gates, though. Sorry.

• 2:08:25Speaker 02

  So the point was, during the 1990s, he was, there was all these trials where they had these monopolistic practices.

• 2:08:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:08:36Speaker 02

  And they were buying up competition or destroying competition. These, uh...

• 2:08:42Speaker 03

  Just anybody that developed any computer, anything.

• 2:08:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, anybody developed browsers that competed with, you know, Microsoft's stuff. Yeah, here is landmark 1990s trials referred to United States versus Microsoft Corporation. Massive antitrust lawsuit filed by US Department of Justice in 20 states. Key elements included browser war integration, the antitrust ruling, and the appellate settlement. And so, everybody in the 90s thought of him as this guy who is this ruthless capitalist that was trying to destroy all the competition.

• 2:09:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  So he kind of reinvented himself.

• 2:09:18Speaker 03

  Gotcha.

• 2:09:19Speaker 02

  And the way he reinvented himself is, first of all, he donated an enormous amount of money to the media. So to NBC, CBS, CNN, all these different, they gave him hundreds of millions of dollars.

• 2:09:31Speaker 03

  Just to fluff them, basically.

• 2:09:32Speaker 02

  Just to kind of say, guys, I'm your friend.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  I'm your buddy over here, yeah.

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  And then he developed the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and they were really concerned with global health.

• 2:09:42Speaker 03

  Oh my god. Dude, do you know what they did fucking in the Kaburabassa Delta with their mosquito nets? Why would you? But, um, do you know what I'm talking about at all?

• 2:09:51Speaker 02

  No, what'd they do?

• 2:09:52Speaker 03

  Dude, I'm gonna go on a fucking tirade here.

• 2:09:54Speaker 02

  Please do.

• 2:09:55Speaker 03

  Okay, so the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation decided that there was too much malaria in Africa, right? Which you and I could probably agree with, malaria is bad. So what did they do? They gave all of these people living in tribal villages, I totally pirated your thing, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna go on a fucking rant here. They gave all these people living in the Kaburabassa Delta, which is the breadbasket of the Zambezi Valley. Meaning like where more fish are born, it's a nursery for fish, right? Not just there, but this is a good micro example, they gave millions of mosquito nets out to all these people to avoid malaria. Guess what the people who were starving to death did with their mosquito nets?

• 2:10:33Speaker 02

  They fished with them.

• 2:10:34Speaker 03

  They fished with them. Mosquito net has a hole that is so small that a mosquito can't get through, so guess what? These mosquito nets now indiscriminately catch tiny baby fish in areas like Kaburabassa, where the fish go to breed and reproduce and populate. So now all of a sudden, you have thousands and thousands of people that have been handed nets, that have been living one way for hundreds of thousands of years, they don't give a shit about malaria. They have their own way of dealing with malaria, they sit in smoky huts at night, they sleep with a campfire, everything else. Yes, they still get malaria, some of them, but they deal with it their own way. Bill Melinda Gates Foundation come in, hand out millions of mosquito nets, absolutely collapse the entire population of fish that feed millions of people,

• 2:11:18Speaker 03

  because these people just take the nets and fish all the baby fish out, so that those fish don't grow up to make substantial protein sources. So now, these wonderful philanthropists that have given out millions of nets, have destroyed an ecosystem, crashed a fish population, and created widespread hunger for people that otherwise had plenty of resources. All because they were trying to help with their mosquito nets.

• 2:11:40Speaker 02

  Oh god.

• 2:11:41Speaker 03

  It's just like, it's a fucking disaster, dude. They've taken such a rich and important part of Africa, one of the most abundant freshwater fisheries in the world, and destroyed it because they're helping by handing out mosquito nets.

• 2:11:54Speaker 02

  Good god.

• 2:11:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, sorry, I told you I'd go on a rant, but it's like, it's so bad what's happened over there. And they're still giving out mosquito nets, by the way. And you literally watch these guys line up, take a mosquito net, and it never goes in their house. It goes straight to catching fish that are this big for them to eat.

• 2:12:10Speaker 02

  Oh god.

• 2:12:12Speaker 03

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• 2:14:29Speaker 02

  I just feel bad for them, too, it's like, can't you just double up the net thing and just get them other nets too? Like say, hey guys.

• 2:14:37Speaker 03

  That's what happened in 2018, they got the new nets.

• 2:14:39Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:14:40Speaker 03

  Is that what it says? That's what I'm looking at the thing. Yeah. Trying to find out other information. It just totally ruined.

• 2:14:45Speaker 02

  They might have already crashed the ecosystem.

• 2:14:47Speaker 03

  It completely crashed it, and it created widespread hunger in a place that had no hunger. So now you have people with malaria and hunger.

• 2:14:54Speaker 02

  Ugh, god.

• 2:14:55Speaker 03

  And it's like done from a place of good intent, or maybe it isn't, and I think that's where you were going, but...

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  I don't think it is.

• 2:15:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:02Speaker 02

  I think it's a ruse, and I think what a lot of it is, is this thing, like, we are doing philanthropy.

• 2:15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:10Speaker 02

  But then you go, oh, but you're profiting, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars from this philanthropy, right?

• 2:15:16Speaker 03

  But you're buying goodwill.

• 2:15:17Speaker 02

  And you're also on television promoting vaccines, like, why are you, you're a guy who didn't even graduate college.

• 2:15:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:24Speaker 02

  Like, I don't, I mean, I don't even know if he made it out of high school. Like, he's a weird guy, like, obviously very smart.

• 2:15:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:15:30Speaker 02

  But, why, you're not a health expert, and you look like shit. Like, why are you promoting health?

• 2:15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:36Speaker 02

  Like, this is crazy, global health.

• 2:15:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:38Speaker 02

  Like, he's just a fucking weird guy, man.

• 2:15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:41Speaker 02

  The weirdest thing, have you ever seen that, you know, he was obviously friends with Jeffrey Epstein, or communicated with him and had some sort of a relationship?

• 2:15:49Speaker 03

  Gates did?

• 2:15:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:15:49Speaker 03

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 2:15:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's popular.

• 2:15:51Speaker 03

  Gotcha.

• 2:15:52Speaker 02

  Well-known.

• 2:15:53Speaker 03

  I feel like everybody is connected to Epstein now, like, I've lost track, yeah.

• 2:15:57Speaker 02

  But the craziest conversation was, there was a woman who was asking him, did he regret his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? And he's just trying to say that the only reason why he talked to Jeffrey Epstein, because Jeffrey Epstein was gonna, he was gonna donate money to his philanthropy, and all the different things that he's involved in. But it didn't work out, and I do regret it. And, and, and she said, did you, I forget what her question was, but Gates says, "Well, uh, he's dead now, so there's that."

• 2:16:29Speaker 03

  Gee.

• 2:16:30Speaker 02

  There's something about it, is you gotta be careful. Like, he's, it's like a weird, like, veiled threat, it's very odd, the way he answers the question.

• 2:16:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:40Speaker 02

  Essentially saying that, I'm reading it like, like you got whacked.

• 2:16:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:46Speaker 02

  Like, that's what I'm reading.

• 2:16:46Speaker 03

  Interesting, weird.

• 2:16:48Speaker 02

  Like, find that, that.

• 2:16:50Speaker 03

  I was, while you find that, I was talking to some buddies about this, you know, just like standard bro chat. If Epstein happened today, right, and you had no knowledge of the weird stuff going on on the island, like, you would be invited, you know what I mean? They'd be like, hey, Joe.

• 2:17:04Speaker 02

  Dude, they did invite me.

• 2:17:05Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 2:17:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, 2017.

• 2:17:07Speaker 03

  To the island?

• 2:17:08Speaker 02

  I'm like, not to specifically, but to meet Epstein.

• 2:17:12Speaker 03

  But that's what I'm saying, is like...

• 2:17:13Speaker 02

  And I was like, what?

• 2:17:14Speaker 03

  If that happened today, some guy came to me, oh, sorry, go ahead, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do it.

• 2:17:19Speaker 05

  Reported at that time, that you had a number of meetings with Jeffrey Epstein, who, when you met him 10 years ago, he was convicted of soliciting prostitution from minors. What did you know about him when you were meeting with him, as you've said yourself, in the hopes of raising money?

• 2:17:38Speaker 06

  Uh, you know, I had dinners with him, I regret doing that. He had relationships with people he said, you know, would give to global health, which is an interest I have, you know, not nearly enough philanthropy goes in that direction. Uh, you know, those meetings were a mistake, they didn't result in what he purported, and I cut them off. You know, that goes back a long time ago now, uh, there's, you know, so there's nothing new on that.

• 2:18:11Speaker 05

  It was reported that you continued to meet with him over several years, and that, in other words, a number of meetings. What did you do when you found out about his background?

• 2:18:25Speaker 06

  Well...

• 2:18:27Speaker 06

  You know, I've said I regretted having those dinners. And there's nothing, absolutely nothing new on that.

• 2:18:34Speaker 05

  Is there a lesson for you, for anyone else looking, looking at this?

• 2:18:40Speaker 06

  Well, he's dead, so, you know, in general, you always have to be careful. And, you know, the, you know, I'm, I'm very proud of what we've done in philanthropy, very proud of the work of the foundation.

• 2:18:55Speaker 03

  Weird.

• 2:18:56Speaker 02

  Listen, first of all.

• 2:18:58Speaker 03

  He's a record scratcher.

• 2:18:59Speaker 02

  You have billions of dollars.

• 2:19:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:19:02Speaker 02

  And this guy didn't give you money for years.

• 2:19:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:19:05Speaker 02

  He didn't give you money for years. He kept meeting you. What about your money? Like, what is it, what is he gonna give you? How much does he get, how much does he have?

• 2:19:12Speaker 03

  Especially compared to Bill Gates.

• 2:19:13Speaker 02

  But he also probably doesn't have a fraction of what you have, right? So, like, if, like, Elon started hitting me up to donate money to something, I'd be like, hey bitch, why don't you?

• 2:19:22Speaker 03

  Like, dude, do you know how much money you have?

• 2:19:24Speaker 02

  You have so much money. Why would you, why would you ask?

• 2:19:26Speaker 03

  I'm the wrong guy.

• 2:19:27Speaker 02

  If he kept meeting with me for years, for years, to try to get me to donate. Like, it's kind of similar, right? This is what we're talking about. He's a billionaire.

• 2:19:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:19:36Speaker 02

  Like, hundreds of billions of dollars.

• 2:19:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:38Speaker 02

  None of it makes any sense. The guy was providing a party for rich people. That's what he was doing. He was providing a way where these rich people can fucking let their hair down and have a good old time and do coke or whatever they did.

• 2:19:50Speaker 03

  And that's all it was, really, right? It was just like, come, but the party had no rules, and that's what makes it a problem.

• 2:19:56Speaker 02

  I'm just guessing. I'm just guessing. But I had a guy who tried to get me to meet him in 2017.

• 2:20:01Speaker 03

  In LA or where?

• 2:20:02Speaker 02

  Well, I was in LA when he reached out to me. Epstein appeared to have drafted himself claiming Gates had, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:11Speaker 03

  Like, he wrote it to himself.

• 2:20:12Speaker 02

  Right. This is an email that Epstein appears to have drafted to himself claiming that Gates had contracted an STI from encounters with Russian girls and hid antibiotics from Melinda. Gates said the emails were never sent and are false. His spokesman called them absolutely absurd. So absurd that someone could get an STD from a Russian girl. Gates has separately admitted to affairs with two Russian women and with a Microsoft employee. But says none of them are connected to Epstein or his victims.

• 2:20:45Speaker 03

  Some people say those emails were like a journal he was keeping.

• 2:20:47Speaker 02

  Why would you keep emails?

• 2:20:49Speaker 03

  Email himself. They were, he was, he wrote on an iPad all the time, apparently. That's why the typos were so bad. And he just liked email, you know, it's, you know.

• 2:20:56Speaker 02

  But, I mean, imagine, that's your journal, but why would you do that? Why would you make up a story about a guy having STDs? I think more likely, because, so, there was a rumor, and this is an unsubstantiated rumor, I want to be real clear, that, that Epstein was trying to blackmail Gates with some story about a bridge player that he was having an affair with. There was some really hot Russian bridge player.

• 2:21:22Speaker 03

  I also think they've intentionally flooded the internet with so much misinformation.

• 2:21:27Speaker 02

  Perhaps, but my point was, if he could have drafted that email, which was never sent.

• 2:21:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:33Speaker 02

  And then sent the draft to Bill Gates or showed it to him.

• 2:21:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:37Speaker 02

  And say, what do you think about this? Because I could just.

• 2:21:40Speaker 03

  If you don't, yeah.

• 2:21:41Speaker 02

  How about you shut the fuck up?

• 2:21:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:21:44Speaker 02

  Will you give me some money? How about you, you know?

• 2:21:46Speaker 03

  It's a bold play.

• 2:21:47Speaker 02

  There was a bunch of, well, there was a bunch of people that gave him a lot of money.

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  They gave Epstein a lot of money?

• 2:21:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. In fact, the guy, the Victoria's Secret guy, gave him a house. He gave him a house.

• 2:21:56Speaker 03

  He was in control of 100% of his finances, so it wasn't just he gave it to him.

• 2:22:01Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%.

• 2:22:02Speaker 03

  He could have taken it or, you know. And he goes, like, I didn't know what he was doing.

• 2:22:04Speaker 02

  Wait, so did Epstein fund? But he gave him that house, right?

• 2:22:07Speaker 03

  Did he fund the Victoria's Secret guy to start Victoria's Secret?

• 2:22:09Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 2:22:11Speaker 03

  That's how he got involved after that guy's, this goes real deep. So, Columbus, this guy got, he was gonna go to talk to the IRS about specifically what, I don't know, 1984? But he was like the tax guy for that company. He was murdered in a mob hit style. Dude, this is why I like this podcast. I'm just like an animal nerd. I like talking about snakes, and I'm like, find out about Victoria's Secret and Epstein and shit.

• 2:22:33Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, it's what the human animal does.

• 2:22:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:37Speaker 02

  The human animal, when it's in these very controlled spaces where, just, so, let's look at it this way. So, imagine you're a guy who's, especially if you're a nerd, and, you know, you, you were never really good with women when you were in high school and college.

• 2:22:54Speaker 03

  Socially awkward.

• 2:22:55Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden, you have literally 100 billion dollars.

• 2:22:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:58Speaker 02

  And you could just get prostitutes anytime you want. And I guess if you get the really high-end ones, they know how to shut the fuck up.

• 2:23:04Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:23:04Speaker 02

  And if you, you have this friend of yours who's in the Mossad, and that guy can get the best hookers, and he's got a fucking island. You go to the island, it's the best.

• 2:23:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:11Speaker 02

  We fly, we talk about philanthropy, we fuck.

• 2:23:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, that's what I was saying before. It's like, you're just like, it's just a party for a bunch of dorks who can come here with a lot of money.

• 2:23:20Speaker 02

  But there's also some weird science connection with him. And that's where it gets really odd, is that there's, he got that ranch in New Mexico so he could be close to the guys that were working at Los Alamos, who were famously not making much money. So, he's around these guys, and he's talking about going into business with them and, and giving them this chance to make an insane amount of money. And this is what he did with Eric Weinstein. With Eric Weinstein, he contacted him, and they had a meeting, and he was trying to get Eric Weinstein to do something with him. And if Eric did it, he had the potential to make an enormous amount of money. And Eric is very wise, and he, he just didn't buy him from the start. He's like, this guy's a construct.

• 2:24:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:02Speaker 02

  Everything about him, he's like, he doesn't know anything about finance. Like, he was talking to him, he's like, this guy's a construct. He's not, this is not a real finance guy.

• 2:24:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:09Speaker 02

  He's like, there's something going on here.

• 2:24:10Speaker 03

  The Wheeler and Dealer. So, wait, what was the science they were working on?

• 2:24:13Speaker 02

  A bunch of different physicists were connected to him. Einstein, Epstein reportedly hoped to develop super race of humans with his DNA.

• 2:24:22Speaker 03

  Wow. Wow.

• 2:24:24Speaker 02

  What is that from? The New York Times. That's the New York Times?

• 2:24:27Speaker 03

  I got a different one of the article, but that's the other. The original quote was the New York Times.

• 2:24:31Speaker 02

  That is crazy. But he had a bunch of relationships with some very impressive scientists and physicists. And also oddly connected to the whole UAP world. The whole Los Alamos thing's weird, because the, the thing is that he, by buying that ranch in New Mexico, put him close to Los Alamos, which was in New Mexico. And he, then he had access to all these scientists that were famously underpaid, right? So, these guys were not making much money, and he was this incredibly wealthy guy through no way that anybody could ever rationally explain.

• 2:25:09Speaker 03

  Ever, yeah.

• 2:25:09Speaker 02

  It was all weird. And, you know, and who knows what he was trying to get them to do?

• 2:25:14Speaker 03

  He was probably just one of those guys, I mean, you never ended up meeting him, but he was probably just incredibly likeable as a con man. Do you know what I mean? You probably sat in a room with him, and you're like, wow, this guy's really great. Like, maybe I should give him some money. Maybe I should, like, what a cool guy. And he's just a dirtbag under the, you know, under the veil.

• 2:25:29Speaker 02

  We're just speculating, but maybe. Maybe also, if you have a bunch of really hot Russian chicks that are hanging out with you.

• 2:25:35Speaker 03

  That'll do it.

• 2:25:36Speaker 02

  You don't need to be that charming.

• 2:25:38Speaker 03

  That's so true. It's so true.

• 2:25:40Speaker 02

  You're a billionaire with a bunch of hot Russian chicks.

• 2:25:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:43Speaker 02

  And then there's a bunch of people that are willing to hang out with billionaires, just because I've seen it where people just get enamored by the fact that someone's insanely wealthy, and they want to go to the party at their house, like, ooh.

• 2:25:53Speaker 03

  But all those people do is work like crazy. Do you know what I mean? They're not fun, I mean, I don't know, I don't know that many. Well, he was, that's true, that guy partied hard. Yeah, good point, good point.

• 2:26:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, to be a billionaire, to, I mean, in most cases, what you have to do is be insanely driven. And you have to be that guy that works 18, 20 hours a day, and, you know.

• 2:26:12Speaker 03

  And give up all the other things.

• 2:26:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to give up all your time, and that becomes your whole life.

• 2:26:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:17Speaker 02

  And I, but I think that's also why they wanted a guy like that, that could provide them, this is how Eric Weinstein described it. He said, he provided them with experiences, I believe.

• 2:26:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:27Speaker 02

  That was his, and I think he's right. I think that makes sense.

• 2:26:30Speaker 03

  So, I mean, my one and only billionaire friend is that Anadibani, that Indian guy I was mentioning. I think it's so cool he's built this gigantic wildlife rescue.

• 2:26:37Speaker 02

  That is pretty dope.

• 2:26:38Speaker 03

  Because he's a dude like.

• 2:26:39Speaker 02

  That's a great thing to do with money.

• 2:26:40Speaker 03

  He's just like, he's a nerd, like me, and if he hears this, he's gonna be like, thanks a lot. But like, he's just an animal nerd, do you know what I mean? He's gonna be like, he's just like, he just loves animals and conservation, and he's like, I have generational wealth that my, you know, it came from his family. His family's like fifth or sixth generation of having huge industry. And he's like, okay, so with my excess money, I'm gonna rescue animals instead of do other, you know, space race.

• 2:27:02Speaker 02

  That's very cool.

• 2:27:04Speaker 03

  I mean, for me, it's amazing.

• 2:27:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there's not, look, there's nothing wrong with space race stuff, too. It's all fascinating, and it's cool, but it's just, it's, and I get it from a perspective of people who think there's not enough money in the world, and then why do these people have so much money? And they should give all their money away, and it's like, oh, okay. But you could do that all the way down to like $100,000 a year if you really wanted to do it, especially when you compare yourself to everyone else in the world.

• 2:27:29Speaker 03

  That's right, that's right. We're in the, just living in this country alone, we're in the 1%, right?

• 2:27:34Speaker 02

  Most people, I think, 1% of the world, we looked this up, it's like $50,000, $60,000. If you make more than that, you're in the 1% of Earth.

• 2:27:42Speaker 03

  Right. And that's the majority of people in the United States.

• 2:27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 2:27:45Speaker 03

  So, like.

• 2:27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're barely getting by in America, and you're in the 1% of the world.

• 2:27:48Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah.

• 2:27:49Speaker 02

  Which is wild.

• 2:27:50Speaker 03

  It's wild.

• 2:27:51Speaker 02

  It's really wild.

• 2:27:51Speaker 03

  It really is, yeah.

• 2:27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're, we're the weirdest animal. You should study us.

• 2:27:55Speaker 03

  I should. Well, I learned a lot today, I'll tell you what.

• 2:27:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, but we're not fun. Like, you, you, you study us, and you go, oh, God, what are, what are they fucking doing? Whereas you study animals, you're like, oh, fucking cool.

• 2:28:09Speaker 03

  They're way cooler. They're way more interesting. More teeth, more claws, more slithering.

• 2:28:13Speaker 02

  Well, it's also just the fact that there's so much variety and that they are real. And that they are, then some of them are so strange. How about that new monkey that they just found in the Congo?

• 2:28:23Speaker 03

  With the lipstick?

• 2:28:24Speaker 02

  Crazy looking monkey.

• 2:28:25Speaker 03

  His orange, his orange mouth?

• 2:28:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it looks like he just ate up, like, one of them Freeze Pops?

• 2:28:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Like your kid after, yeah, 100, dude, it's so cool. And new primate species coming out still, like, I love that. I think it's so great.

• 2:28:37Speaker 02

  Do you believe in the Bondo ape? Do you think that thing is?

• 2:28:41Speaker 03

  Yes and no, like, there's probably likely a group of chimpanzees, do you know what I mean? That just are more aggressive, that are a social construct.

• 2:28:51Speaker 02

  And are larger.

• 2:28:52Speaker 03

  And are larger, but it doesn't mean that it's like this, you know, because they have the whole thing about them being lion-killing apes and all this other stuff. There's probably a family troop, a group, and you know they're in war now, have you read about this?

• 2:29:04Speaker 02

  I have.

• 2:29:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I think that the Bondo ape is real in the sense of there is an, probably an isolated larger group of chimps that just act like chimps.

• 2:29:13Speaker 02

  The thing about this chimp though is they said that their skulls are different.

• 2:29:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, the cranial ridge.

• 2:29:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, makes sense, things with stronger jaw muscles have a cranial ridge, you know, you see it in hyenas, you see it in things like that.

• 2:29:24Speaker 02

  Gorillas.

• 2:29:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, gorillas, yeah, exactly, it's just more, more surface area for the muscle to attach to, basically.

• 2:29:30Speaker 02

  It's just like, that would be so fascinating to find those things, and that's what, you know, that Carl Armand guy spent his whole life.

• 2:29:37Speaker 03

  Hunting, reading rumors and...

• 2:29:40Speaker 02

  But at least he got some photos, unlike that poor fucker that was looking for the sloth.

• 2:29:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, still, still trying, yeah.

• 2:29:45Speaker 02

  Like, he got some camera trap photos of them, and, you know.

• 2:29:49Speaker 03

  No, and, and they were bipedal in the photos, right? Didn't he have them, a lot of them, which chimps are, you know, they'll walk on hind legs and stuff, yeah, it's pretty cool.

• 2:29:57Speaker 02

  It is pretty cool, and then there's a photo of the one that they killed that was at the airport, do you know, you ever see that one?

• 2:30:01Speaker 03

  I don't think so.

• 2:30:02Speaker 02

  Oh, it's crazy.

• 2:30:03Speaker 03

  At the airport?

• 2:30:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a, a small airport, and they, they killed this one, uh, enormous chimpanzee, so there's these two guys that are standing with it, and it's hard to tell how big the guys are, but if they're a normal-sized human beings, that's the biggest fucking chimpanzee I've ever seen in my life.

• 2:30:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's huge.

• 2:30:18Speaker 02

  Look at that thing.

• 2:30:20Speaker 03

  They're amazing.

• 2:30:21Speaker 02

  Look at that, I mean, the guy is, uh, you could tell by perspective that the guy's, he's got his hand on it, so he's right behind it.

• 2:30:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it's not a forced perspective.

• 2:30:29Speaker 02

  His arm is not extended, so it's not fake, and that chimpanzee looks way bigger than him.

• 2:30:35Speaker 03

  Way bigger, yeah, it's amazing.

• 2:30:36Speaker 02

  So they think that is one of them.

• 2:30:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, like I said, I, I think it's real in the sense, oh yeah, this, this famous photo.

• 2:30:43Speaker 02

  See, but that one just, to me, looks like a chimpanzee, that just looks like a big chimp.

• 2:30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:48Speaker 02

  Where the one that's sitting down, that looks way bigger than those guys, like, the size of its head is fucking enormous.

• 2:30:54Speaker 03

  Do you know that there's one river where, um, I'm trying to remember exactly how this works, but basically there's one area where the rivers collide, where the chimps and the gorillas go into conflict with each other over this one river spot? Do you know what I'm talking about? Have you ever heard about this? Yeah, it's really interesting, so, somewhere in the Congo, there's this particular river, and I think it's called the Cross River? Can't remember now, and it's an area that the chimps will come on one side, and the gorillas will come down on the other, and they will have, they'll like throw stuff at each other across the river, and like, it's like a whole thing, it's been documented, and these guys will, they're sort of these like two clans

• 2:31:33Speaker 03

  of great apes that come and communicate across the river and throw rocks and like, show off to each other, and then they kind of go back into the jungle, but it's been seen in this one particular river several times.

• 2:31:44Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:31:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like the real planet of the apes.

• 2:31:46Speaker 02

  What are the chimp wars, what are they, are they fighting over food, territory?

• 2:31:50Speaker 03

  Uh, it, unless I'm mistaken, it's relatively unknown, but it's, it's sort of a social construct, so, if you think of humans, for example, once our population gets too large and we have too many men and not enough women, we fight. Right, we've seen that throughout history, Roman times, Mongolian times, you name it, so there was one troop of chimps that all lived together in relative harmony, and then two leaders basically sprung up, and there was a, a lack of enough females, and so all of a sudden, this, this clan divided into two clans, and now they're at constant war with each other. Like, they live in the same relative territory, but they'll come in with, come into contact with each other and go to war over who's gonna be the leader of the, the alpha troop, the mega troop.

• 2:32:34Speaker 03

  And it's been going for maybe a year or two years now.

• 2:32:37Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 2:32:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, but how human is that?

• 2:32:40Speaker 02

  So human.

• 2:32:40Speaker 03

  Like, to be like, okay, we're all part of this group, like, you and I don't like each other now, like, this is my side, that's your side, and we're gonna fuck each other up.

• 2:32:48Speaker 02

  Study highlights friends with benefits relationship between gorillas and chimps, what, they're fucking each other?

• 2:32:52Speaker 03

  No, it's, uh, like, the younger ones hanging out, it says, it's probably in the same area they're meeting, there's pictures of them like in the same trees. Yeah, yeah, I think this is that river. They're getting for fig, they want figs out of these trees.

• 2:33:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, but friends with benefits, generally...

• 2:33:04Speaker 03

  Well, the benefits are, yeah, I, yeah, I was looking for wording that got to what you're getting at.

• 2:33:08Speaker 02

  But you don't really say that with like, you're, like, why do you, why do you go to dinner with Bob? Well, we're friends with benefits, oh, you're fucking Bob?

• 2:33:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:15Speaker 02

  Why'd you start fucking Bob, man?

• 2:33:17Speaker 03

  No, no, we just like figs, both of us, yeah. Uh, the chimpanzees though, they caught them beating their chest, which is only something gorillas have ever seen.

• 2:33:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, they're, they're imitating them.

• 2:33:27Speaker 03

  Mimicking each other, yeah.

• 2:33:28Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:33:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:30Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm sure you've seen that one, um, documentary, I think it's called Relentless Enemies, where there's a particular pride of lions that grew enormous because they're only eating water buffaloes, they got trapped on an island because the river changed paths.

• 2:33:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I, I, I remember what you're talking about, I don't know the documentary, but yeah, they're eating Cape buffalo exclusively.

• 2:33:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:50Speaker 03

  And the lions are just getting bigger and beefier, and they're all fat and like, yeah, it's pretty cool.

• 2:33:54Speaker 02

  Well, they have to get bigger, the females are doing all the killing, and so they're as big as male lions in other places, and they're jacked.

• 2:34:01Speaker 03

  And they don't have a choice, because otherwise they're gonna die while trying to hunt the, the Cape buffalo.

• 2:34:06Speaker 02

  Right, but it's so, we're watching natural selection in real time, because they just keep getting bigger and stronger.

• 2:34:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:13Speaker 02

  And, you know, they're like, these fucking buffalo are enormous, man, they're jumping on these things and hanging on them and trying to drag them down to the ground.

• 2:34:20Speaker 03

  The Black Death, that's what they call the Cape buffalo, yeah.

• 2:34:23Speaker 02

  Those motherfuckers are so scary.

• 2:34:24Speaker 03

  So mean, so scary, yeah, and they'll charge so unprovoked, like, they'll just turn and come anytime, but it's, uh, it's crazy how you have that basically insular dwarfism and insular gigantism throughout animals, no matter, like, animals stuck on an island, they're either gonna get big or they're gonna get small.

• 2:34:42Speaker 02

  Well, lizards usually get big on an island, right?

• 2:34:44Speaker 03

  Or tortoises, right, like the Galapagos or the Seychelles, yeah.

• 2:34:47Speaker 02

  Why? Why do they get bigger?

• 2:34:49Speaker 03

  No predators, unlimited resources.

• 2:34:51Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:34:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, so all of a sudden, you know, you're a little tortoise that's this big, and every time you get to this big, something spots you from the air and eats you, or whatever it happens to be, but now you're stuck on an island with all the grass and fruit you could ever eat, and nobody wants to eat you, so you just get bigger and bigger to outcompete each other.

• 2:35:08Speaker 02

  Look at that face.

• 2:35:09Speaker 03

  Phew, yeah, look at those guys.

• 2:35:12Speaker 02

  I'm, just imagine, that's the only thing you can eat, is something three times bigger than you, and can fucking kill you.

• 2:35:18Speaker 03

  That kills a lot of lions, by the way.

• 2:35:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, well, they kick you in the face when you're trying to take them out, and then that's it, your jaw's broken, and you never eat again.

• 2:35:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:35:27Speaker 02

  And you starve to death slowly.

• 2:35:29Speaker 03

  I love the little, the little cub there covered in blood, look at that.

• 2:35:32Speaker 02

  It's a really cool documentary, but it seems so weird when you're looking at the size of the females. They just look exaggerated to the point where they, they look fake, they look like hulk lions.

• 2:35:43Speaker 03

  It's awesome.

• 2:35:45Speaker 02

  It's very cool.

• 2:35:45Speaker 03

  Very, very cool.

• 2:35:47Speaker 02

  Nature is such a wild thing, man, I mean, it's such an, an amazing, fascinating, endless resource of just cool shit to see.

• 2:35:56Speaker 03

  And our understanding of it changes all the time, so every animal theory we've ever had evolves and changes as we learn more, which is what makes it so fun, because it's so dynamic, it's not a static thing.

• 2:36:08Speaker 02

  What's just crazy that we keep finding new things, like the new primate.

• 2:36:10Speaker 03

  All the time.

• 2:36:11Speaker 02

  See, find that little new monkey that they found.

• 2:36:13Speaker 03

  With the orange lips.

• 2:36:14Speaker 02

  He's really cool, he's in the Congo, well, and the Congo's another place, it's like, what?

• 2:36:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:20Speaker 02

  You ever, you, I've seen, sure you've seen that BBC documentary on the Congo, um, from, god, it's like the early 2000s, but, um, look at him, what a weird-looking guy.

• 2:36:29Speaker 03

  So cool.

• 2:36:31Speaker 02

  So strange.

• 2:36:32Speaker 03

  There's a few lost primates out there too, like species that we've seen once or twice, that have never been seen since, that...

• 2:36:38Speaker 02

  Like what?

• 2:36:39Speaker 03

  Um, Miss Waldron's red colobus is one that comes to mind.

• 2:36:43Speaker 02

  So it's called Miss Waldron's red colobus?

• 2:36:46Speaker 03

  I think it's called that, or maybe it's just Waldron's red colobus, but it's a, a colobus monkey that there's like three or four museum specimens and no live specimens, yeah.

• 2:36:54Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:36:54Speaker 03

  Uh-huh, there's a few of those, yeah.

• 2:36:56Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:36:57Speaker 03

  Miss Waldron's, yeah, red colobus.

• 2:36:59Speaker 02

  Why is it called Miss Waldron?

• 2:37:01Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:37:02Speaker 02

  Who's that lady?

• 2:37:02Speaker 03

  Good question.

• 2:37:05Speaker 02

  What do you have to do with this monkey lady?

• 2:37:06Speaker 03

  They have to West Africa, previously described as subspecies, not been sighted since, oh, I saw it for a second.

• 2:37:12Speaker 02

  And what's crazy is a lot of these animals, especially like these primates, and, and, and essentially anything that lives in the Congo, is in a place that's so scary and so dangerous to visit, that there's not a lot of research being done.

• 2:37:26Speaker 03

  Well, that's always what I tell people when they're like, oh, well, you know, find these animals, find that animals, nobody's looking. It's too hard, they're, the local people know they're there, like, these lost species are species that the people that hunt and eat them know they're there, but they have no communication to the outside or the scientific world, and, you know, for you or I to go into that part of the Congo is probably a death sentence.

• 2:37:47Speaker 02

  Eesh.

• 2:37:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:37:50Speaker 03

  But there's a lot of cool stuff out there.

• 2:37:51Speaker 02

  Are there any other animals that, uh, might be real, that people think they've seen?

• 2:37:58Speaker 03

  As far as like cryptids that could still be real?

• 2:38:00Speaker 02

  Weird ones.

• 2:38:01Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 2:38:02Speaker 02

  Like the giant sloth or something like that?

• 2:38:04Speaker 03

  I mean, there's that whole, like, the dinosaur in the Congo thing that people always talk about, it's silly, it's not real.

• 2:38:09Speaker 02

  That one seems silly.

• 2:38:10Speaker 03

  I mean, I, I can't think of any, I, I think, you know, like I talked...

• 2:38:13Speaker 02

  David Cho went looking for that once.

• 2:38:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I, actually, that's one of your pods that I watched the whole thing, he was talking about that.

• 2:38:20Speaker 02

  David's crazy.

• 2:38:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can't think of any, but, you know, it's, it's those rumors, like, there's a sloth, we've seen it, there's an Asian unicorn, we've seen it, that if people don't follow, you never know.

• 2:38:31Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 2:38:32Speaker 03

  It's like, you can, you can absolutely be the tinfoil hat guy like I can be with the thylacine, but if you give up and don't look, you know, we never really know.

• 2:38:39Speaker 02

  And if it gets gonna be, it, it'll probably be in a place like the Amazon or like the Congo, some enormous place. Like, the Congo, isn't the Congo as wide as the contiguous North America?

• 2:38:52Speaker 03

  The country or the river?

• 2:38:53Speaker 02

  The, I think, the, the country of the Congo, the, the Congo, the jungle of the Congo, I think is almost as big as America.

• 2:39:01Speaker 03

  I did not know it was that large, yeah.

• 2:39:03Speaker 02

  You know, Africa's fucking huge.

• 2:39:05Speaker 03

  It's huge, if you see, because the United States imposed on Africa, you're like, oh my god, the continent of Africa is enormous.

• 2:39:11Speaker 02

  Well, that's what's squirrely about maps, right? Especially like when you look at the globe, like, everything's so distorted, which I don't understand why they do that.

• 2:39:19Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:39:20Speaker 02

  I've never had that explained to me in a way that like, oh, I get it.

• 2:39:23Speaker 03

  Or timelines, have you ever looked at how like timelines are drawn on the globe? Like, like, um, you know, like, the time zones?

• 2:39:31Speaker 02

  Right, right, right, so weird, like, jigsaw puzzles.

• 2:39:33Speaker 03

  Jigsaw puzzles, and you're like, why is that island in this time zone that's three slots over? Like, it makes no sense to me.

• 2:39:39Speaker 02

  Doesn't make any sense.

• 2:39:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:41Speaker 02

  Um, but, like, see if you can find the size of the Congo. Like, if you see the size of the Congo versus, I think it's almost as big as the United States.

• 2:39:51Speaker 03

  That's crazy, I didn't realize that, it's the same, yeah, there are, there are these, there's so many of these incredible remote areas.

• 2:39:57Speaker 02

  Thousands of miles wide.

• 2:40:01Speaker 02

  Okay, so if you took that and you shoved it, why doesn't, why doesn't, put it over, right? The bottom one there is a better one. Bottom one, that one's better. So, not quite.

• 2:40:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's still enormous.

• 2:40:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like thirty-five percent.

• 2:40:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's more political unrest there now, which means stuff shuts down.

• 2:40:20Speaker 02

  I mean, that's crazy. That's an enormous piece of, look how big that is. You get all of India, all of Eastern Europe, the United States, China, fucking crazy France, Spain, look at that.

• 2:40:31Speaker 03

  It's a big place.

• 2:40:34Speaker 02

  And the cradle of civilization.

• 2:40:36Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:40:36Speaker 02

  The cradle of humanity, and then also Egypt. That's, that's also part of Africa.

• 2:40:42Speaker 03

  You know about the eclipse coming up there?

• 2:40:44Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:40:44Speaker 03

  Biggest one in history, twenty twenty-seven?

• 2:40:46Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 2:40:47Speaker 03

  So in twenty twenty-seven, uh, I wanna say April, there'll be a six-minute total blackout in Egypt. Be the longest one in a hundred and something, or maybe eighty-something years, over the Red Sea in Egypt.

• 2:40:59Speaker 02

  Oh, that's when you wanna go see the pyramids.

• 2:41:00Speaker 03

  Can you imagine?

• 2:41:01Speaker 02

  That's when the aliens are gonna return.

• 2:41:02Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying, dude. Can you imagine being at the pyramids and seeing a six-minute-long, six-minute twenty-two second?

• 2:41:08Speaker 02

  That's what it's gonna look like.

• 2:41:09Speaker 03

  And it's in a place that never has fucking clouds, so you're gonna see it. I mean, they do, but not that time of year, so, yeah, total solar eclipse for six and a half minutes.

• 2:41:17Speaker 02

  So we had one here, um,

• 2:41:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:41:20Speaker 02

  Two years ago?

• 2:41:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:21Speaker 02

  Two years ago, Jamie?

• 2:41:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:41:22Speaker 02

  It was really cool.

• 2:41:23Speaker 03

  How long did that last? I wasn't in the country, but, yeah.

• 2:41:26Speaker 02

  A couple, yeah, a couple of minutes. What was really cool about it, though, was that all the animals got oddly silent before it happened.

• 2:41:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:41:35Speaker 02

  It was really weird.

• 2:41:36Speaker 03

  Like they know something's coming.

• 2:41:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we were outside waiting for it, and as the, you know, as the eclipse starts taking place, everything went quiet.

• 2:41:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:45Speaker 02

  It was really wild.

• 2:41:46Speaker 03

  So crazy.

• 2:41:46Speaker 02

  And then while it's happening, like, whoa, and you, you imagine, like, imagine living, like, thousands of years ago, before anybody understood what the fuck was going on, and thinking like some wild, magical moment had happened and that we entered into a new timeline or something, you'd have all crazy theories.

• 2:42:03Speaker 03

  I'd like grab somebody, we gotta sacrifice them right away, something's going on here, yeah.

• 2:42:06Speaker 02

  Get them to the pyramid, cut their heart out.

• 2:42:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, straight away.

• 2:42:09Speaker 02

  It's also, it's like, so weird that the sun and the moon are the exact right distance, that when they cross, the moon just completely outlines where the, I mean, just fills in everything.

• 2:42:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:42:25Speaker 02

  But, but the light around the outside of the edges.

• 2:42:27Speaker 03

  It's bizarre.

• 2:42:28Speaker 02

  Like, how is it perfectly sized like that?

• 2:42:30Speaker 03

  Have you seen, oh, sorry, go ahead.

• 2:42:32Speaker 02

  No, it's just, it's an incredible coincidence that it's the right distance and the right size, cuz obviously the moon is so much smaller than the sun.

• 2:42:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:42:41Speaker 02

  But perfectly distanced.

• 2:42:43Speaker 03

  The scale.

• 2:42:43Speaker 02

  So that when the sun and the moon is there, it's like, boom, it's like the right size, not like, half of it.

• 2:42:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:42:50Speaker 02

  You know, it's perfect.

• 2:42:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, perfect.

• 2:42:52Speaker 02

  It just sits right in there.

• 2:42:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like an Oreo in the cream. It's amazing.

• 2:42:56Speaker 02

  The really screwball theories are that the moon is fake.

• 2:42:59Speaker 03

  I've never heard that one.

• 2:43:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, the panda, the panda fake has nothing on the moon being fake.

• 2:43:05Speaker 03

  The moon is fake.

• 2:43:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, they think that the moon is, uh, artificial, and then it was like put here by aliens and it's hollow.

• 2:43:11Speaker 03

  You're kidding.

• 2:43:12Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 2:43:13Speaker 03

  That's a good one.

• 2:43:13Speaker 02

  And that it was put here in order to sustain life on Earth, to give us a stable orbit.

• 2:43:19Speaker 03

  I mean, it does do that.

• 2:43:20Speaker 02

  It does do that.

• 2:43:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cuz imagine, like, how fragile life is, and, like, we're really concerned about climate change, like, oh my god, uh, if the climate changes, well, guess what? If the fucking moon wasn't there, you'd be doomed.

• 2:43:32Speaker 03

  Oh, that's just nothing.

• 2:43:33Speaker 02

  There is no way. You, you need a big moon, too.

• 2:43:37Speaker 03

  Controls all of our oceans and...

• 2:43:39Speaker 02

  It's a quarter of the size of the Earth.

• 2:43:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:42Speaker 02

  It's a weird moon.

• 2:43:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:43Speaker 02

  Like, I don't think there's another moon on, in our entire solar system that's comparable. In terms of like the size and the relationship to the other planet.

• 2:43:51Speaker 03

  The planet itself, yeah.

• 2:43:52Speaker 02

  I think it's way bigger than every other moon on, let's find that out.

• 2:43:55Speaker 03

  Is that, is that what formulates the conspiracy theories, like it was brought in?

• 2:43:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:44:00Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 2:44:01Speaker 02

  There's also, we did something, some sort of experiment, we shot something at the moon and it rang like a bell for like a long time, which is really weird.

• 2:44:08Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 2:44:09Speaker 02

  It's like, it echoed like way longer than we thought, which, of course, could just be, they didn't know what it would do, cuz they'd never done it before.

• 2:44:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:44:17Speaker 02

  And they don't even know, like,

• 2:44:19Speaker 03

  Fifth largest.

• 2:44:19Speaker 02

  The fifth largest moon in the solar system with a diameter of the width of the contiguous United States, while it's dwarfed by Jupiter and Saturn's largest moons, it's uniquely massive compared to its parent planet. Yeah, that's what it is, making the Earth-moon system more like a double planet. Yeah, so in relationship to the planet, like, it's, so Jupiter and Saturn have huge moons, but Jupiter obviously is fucking way bigger than us.

• 2:44:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:44:44Speaker 02

  Well, you can look at the size of Jupiter in comparison to the size of Earth.

• 2:44:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's the scale of the moon to this, to the Earth, yeah, interesting. That is a wild conspiracy theory. Imagine just being the guy who's like, you know what? Why don't we shoot at the moon? Let's give that a whirl, see what happens.

• 2:45:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did something. I think, I don't know what they shot it with, I think they sent a rocket to the moon and, uh, just to measure the sound. Like, see what would happen.

• 2:45:10Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 2:45:10Speaker 02

  And it was odd. They, they found it was odd the way it rang, it rang like a bell.

• 2:45:15Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 2:45:16Speaker 02

  But, you know, it's like, they've never done that before, like, and al- also, who knows what the fucking center of the moon's made out of?

• 2:45:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:23Speaker 02

  Who knows where you hit it?

• 2:45:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally.

• 2:45:25Speaker 02

  Who knows, maybe it's, maybe they got some caves in there, it's hollow. Apollo experiments and the ringing effect. Uh, the phrase "moon rang like a bell" comes from Apollo twelve. In nineteen sixty-nine November, NASA deliberately cla- crashed the lunar module's ascent stage onto the moon. Seism- uh, seismometers recorded a long-lasting vibrations for nearly an hour. This description is a metaphor for how dry, cold lunar rock reverberates without water to dampen the shockwaves.

• 2:45:56Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 2:45:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, retards and dorks say, "Oh, it's hollow, it's made by aliens." And there's also people that think that, you know, there's stuff there, that, like, there's a monolith there.

• 2:46:08Speaker 03

  Cities on the moon and all that, yeah, yeah.

• 2:46:10Speaker 02

  On the other side that we can't see.

• 2:46:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, man.

• 2:46:13Speaker 02

  Their bases.

• 2:46:14Speaker 03

  Reddit's a wild place, huh?

• 2:46:15Speaker 02

  Sorry, it's really, like, this is not even Reddit, this is like, you gotta go to like weird message boards where crazy people go.

• 2:46:22Speaker 03

  It's deep crazy.

• 2:46:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, people that are...

• 2:46:24Speaker 04

  Hollow Moon's on Wiki.

• 2:46:25Speaker 02

  What's that? Hollow Moon, there, the Hollow Moon, closely related to Spaceship Moon, ah, that's the one. Our pseudo-scientific hypothesis that proposes Earth's moon is either wholly hollow or otherwise contains a substantial interior space. No scientific evidence exists to support the idea. Let's go to, go to Spaceship Moon, cuz that seems even more interesting.

• 2:46:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, Spaceship Moon, come on, baby.

• 2:46:54Speaker 02

  All these pseudo-scientific, the moon spaceship, uh, includes historical, oh, no, no, no.

• 2:47:04Speaker 02

  Spaceship Moon Theory.

• 2:47:08Speaker 02

  Try that, it's theory.

• 2:47:11Speaker 02

  A pseudo-scientific hypothesis proposing that Earth's moon is an artificial, hollowed-out satellite constructed by an alien civilization.

• 2:47:19Speaker 03

  Oh, boy.

• 2:47:19Speaker 02

  See?

• 2:47:20Speaker 03

  It's like the Death Star.

• 2:47:20Speaker 02

  There you go, bro. Well, you need to get into like, space is fake, that's even better.

• 2:47:25Speaker 03

  Space is fake?

• 2:47:26Speaker 02

  Is popula- popularized in nineteen seventy by two Soviet scientists, Mikhail Vasin and Alexander, rrr, how about that word?

• 2:47:36Speaker 03

  Yep. Sherkabut?

• 2:47:38Speaker 02

  Sherkabakov. Sherkabakov, who suggested the moon was reinforced by an armored titanium hull to survive impacts.

• 2:47:49Speaker 03

  Oh, man. People need more to do.

• 2:47:51Speaker 02

  No, they don't.

• 2:47:52Speaker 03

  You like this?

• 2:47:52Speaker 02

  I love, I love, I love, the kookier the better.

• 2:47:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:56Speaker 02

  Like, hashtag "space is fake" is one of my favorite things to look up, cuz there's a whole community of people out there that think space is fake. But I also think that a lot of these people, what you're getting is, there's been some, there's been some people who develop fake theories in order to see if people bite. And then, and then they put them out there, like on Reddit or somewhere, on, on 4chan, 4chan's a great place and stuff like that, cuz you got a lot of schizophrenics that like to visit those places. And then they'll put it out there and see if people run with it, and then they'll do it to see if, just for fun.

• 2:48:27Speaker 03

  And it gives you a community, right? It's like, oh, yeah, I have this group of flat-earthers that I hang out with on Saturdays and we talk about how the Earth's not round, you know what I mean? It's like, I've, I made my own lunatic community.

• 2:48:39Speaker 02

  Bigfoot hunters, same thing.

• 2:48:40Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 2:48:41Speaker 02

  Unfuckable white guys.

• 2:48:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:48:43Speaker 02

  Unfuckable white guys, looking for cryptids.

• 2:48:46Speaker 03

  Something to do.

• 2:48:47Speaker 02

  Are there any other cryptids that are even remotely interesting?

• 2:48:52Speaker 03

  To me, not really. I mean, I always enjoy the fun of it, like when we chat about it. But as far as like the reality of it, I don't think so. You know, I know it's a boring answer, but I think that...

• 2:49:02Speaker 02

  Well, you would know. I mean, that's why I'm asking you. I mean, you're a guy who actually goes to these places and goes looking for stuff.

• 2:49:07Speaker 03

  I love when you hear about something like a burrowing snake. And everybody's like, "That's not real. It doesn't exist." And then turns out, somebody finds this weird snake. And it's not really a cryptid, but it's something that nobody's been looking for. Because why would you, right? Nobody's digging in the earth in the center of the Congo to find a mud snake, you know, or whatever it happens to be. And I think those are the things that they end up being cryptids in small communities. You know, like you hear from the village about the snake, I'm making the snake up, but about the snake that lives under the mud and only bites when people dig their crops, or whatever it happens to be. And it creates this generational legend that becomes a cryptid. But the truth is, there is a snake that lives under the crops in the mud. It's just nobody ever goes looking for it, because why would you?

• 2:49:51Speaker 02

  Well, there is a weird arrogance that we have in 2026, because we have uncovered so much in comparison to people that lived 200 or 300 years ago.

• 2:50:01Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure.

• 2:50:02Speaker 02

  That we have this maybe arrogant assumption that we have an accurate audit of all the animals on the planet.

• 2:50:09Speaker 03

  And it's such a human thing to do, is to be like, "We've quantified it all. We have the answers." You know, it's like, we put a finite on something. And then you have all these guys, like especially in the scientific community, which is, that's a whole story for itself. But they're now like, "Okay, I need funding, so I'm gonna speciate a bunch of stuff." So I'm gonna go look at four things that are exactly the same, except one lives on one side of the creek and one lives on the other. And now I'm gonna make it its own species, because that'll fund more work for me. So now you have this speciation race.

• 2:50:41Speaker 02

  And there's no gatekeeping on that, where someone goes, "Hey."

• 2:50:45Speaker 03

  I mean, there are certain criteria that you have to meet, but they're pretty easy to meet. Do you know what I mean? You have to say, "It looks different. It has some kind of genetic anomaly. It has some kind of physical anomaly. There's a population of it." Okay, now I've named my own species, and that makes noise, and I can publish a paper, and now my research is funded. And it's just like, it's not, you know, is it a species? Did we need this one frog to be split into four different groups? Because they live on, you know, four different patches of the mountain? Not really. You know, and it sort of lessens the conservation for that frog in general, because now, all of a sudden, it's like, "Well, there's four different kinds of them, so who cares if one of them gets extinct?" You know what I mean? So it's sort of like, it's a weird thing that's going on in the sciences,

• 2:51:29Speaker 03

  where there's this race to do speciation and pull apart everything into more and more and more. And then it sort of lessens the value of them, in my opinion.

• 2:51:37Speaker 02

  Hmm, that's interesting. So there's this reward thing that happens that encourages people to do these things.

• 2:51:46Speaker 03

  Dude, I'm writing a whole book on this right now. It's coming out next year, because it's just the scientific system in wildlife and conservation is so broken, because it's very, first of all, the, first of all, if you're an animal guy, you're probably not a great people person to begin with, right? Myself included.

• 2:52:02Speaker 02

  You're no bad people person.

• 2:52:04Speaker 03

  Thanks. But for the most part, the people that get into the sciences probably are, don't have the best... Yeah, they're awkward. They don't have the best human social skills, right? So then, those people become professors and heads of parties and academics and all these things. And again, I'm generalizing. There are great people that I work with too, but just as, just a picture of the system. So now you have all these socially awkward, somewhat introverted people studying animals. Now there's this tiny little resource pool of money. And everybody that's socially awkward, that's already somewhat arrogant, because they've made it to the top of their field, or close to the top of their field, is competing for this tiny little pool of money. So now they're putting out anything that's headline-worthy. And a headline-worthy could be as simple as speciating a frog on a mountain, or it could be discovering something.

• 2:52:49Speaker 03

  But basically, you have to just publish something to show that you are accomplishing something, to then pull from that tiny little pool of money. So now, a system, like say, you, me, and Jamie here, should all be working towards saving this guy right here, this metal chimpanzee. Well, we're not. We're all fighting, because there's this tiny little pool of money that we all want. And we're all saying that each other are wrong, because we need to prove that we're right, so that we're funded, because you two, because all three of us can't be funded to save that species. Does that make sense? So now we're all fighting each other to save the thing that we all care about, because the resource pool is so small.

• 2:53:23Speaker 02

  So what's the solution to that?

• 2:53:26Speaker 03

  Well, it needs to become more mainstream. And I think there's a lot of bullshit science, you know, to be honest with you. Like, there's a lot of this speciation and publishing and all this stuff that's just sort of making noise that isn't really helping. And I think the solution is, well, one, once it becomes more mainstream, here's the short answer. Conservation is incredibly easy to measure. We try and make it very difficult and complicated. Are there animals now? After your work, are there more? Have you fixed the problem? That's all conservation is, right? Are there more or less than when you started? If when you started, there are less, and now there are more, and this is very black and white, and every system's different. But if you had 1,000 frogs, and then you worked on the project, and now you have 2,000 frogs,

• 2:54:11Speaker 03

  you're doing conservation right, as long as the ecosystem supports, as long as the prey is there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's all conservation is. We try and make it so complicated and so in-depth, and require all these papers and this publishing and this information that is sort of an information overload, that the common person doesn't care about it. I mean, when's the last time you read a paper on frogs? Probably never, right? Me neither, because they're boring, because I don't want to care about it. But I would care if you just came out and said, "Look, these frogs need a home. We're gonna fight chitrid fungus, which is this big widespread fungus that's killing all amphibians, by building frog hotels. And if we build," which are these little brick hotel things that frogs go into, incubate to kill fungus. "And if we build enough frog hotels, then there's gonna be more frogs."

• 2:54:56Speaker 03

  That's good conservation. So instead of fighting over that, make that popular and mainstream. Don't make it so complicated, so that nobody understands. I'm not saying don't publish papers and things. Those still very much so have their place and they're important. But focus on the messaging to the common person, so that the common person now cares. Then there becomes more funding and resources. Then we don't all have to fight over this tiny little pool of resources to publish things that aren't actually accomplishing things.

• 2:55:20Speaker 02

  Well, this is actually the value of getting into a crocodile cage.

• 2:55:24Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:55:24Speaker 02

  Because you get people actually interested in animals, and...

• 2:55:29Speaker 03

  That's why I do YouTube. That's why I do all these things, is that I hope that it helps people care. I don't need to get funded by it. Like, it's great when my YouTube does well and I make money, but like, I just want people to care about these things. Because if you care about them, then that resource pool widens.

• 2:55:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55:43Speaker 02

  Well, it's, you gotta make things interesting to people, right? And this is where like David Attenborough was so amazing.

• 2:55:50Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:55:50Speaker 02

  Right, because he developed these documentaries, and he, so, and the voice that he had, he was explaining these things.

• 2:55:57Speaker 03

  Mind-blowing.

• 2:55:58Speaker 02

  He was the first guy to document chimpanzees eating monkeys.

• 2:56:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:56:02Speaker 02

  I remember that.

• 2:56:03Speaker 03

  Incredible, incredible. All his stuff. He's the goat, literally.

• 2:56:07Speaker 02

  But you kind of, that's another thing about being a wildlife biologist. You kinda have to get your hands dirty.

• 2:56:13Speaker 03

  You have to.

• 2:56:14Speaker 02

  You gotta get in there.

• 2:56:15Speaker 03

  And the other part of the system that's so broken is a lot of these world-leading experts have never touched, seen anything with a living one of these animals. I worked with a person, and I don't want to say her name, because she's a lovely person, who's a world-leading expert on a certain type of shark. And we're like, "Great, you're the world's leading authority. You're perfect to come with us on this trip to study these sharks." We fly to the opposite side of the planet, and I don't want to give too many details. It's not fair to her. She's a very nice person. We fly to the opposite side of the planet. She's published 50 papers on this species of shark. And we get there, and I'm like, "All right, day one, let's gear up. Let's hop in the water and look for this thing." She's like, "Oh, I don't know how to swim." Like, "What do you mean?" She's like, "Ah, I've never been in the ocean before." Like, "You're the world's leading authority on this type of shark."

• 2:56:59Speaker 03

  And she's like, "Yeah, yeah, I don't dive. I don't snorkel. I don't know how to swim." I'm like, "Well, how are you the world's leading authority on the shark?" She's like, "Well, I've never seen one alive. I've dissected them. I've published all these papers. I can tell you about the tooth count, but I've actually never seen one alive." I'm like, "You're the world's leading authority? And you've never seen one of these animals alive to study it?" The guy who fishes and eats it in the village next door is more of an authority than this person. Do you know what I mean?

• 2:57:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:57:24Speaker 03

  But that's the scientific process, the world's leading authority, because they've published the most papers on something that sits in a pickle jar.

• 2:57:31Speaker 02

  Do you think that that is an absolute requirement, though? Like, do you have to have some sort of physical contact with the world that they live in?

• 2:57:39Speaker 03

  I think you have to have observational knowledge. You don't have to have physical contact. Like, you shouldn't have physical contact with wild chimpanzees. They'll rip your arms off.

• 2:57:47Speaker 02

  Right, but I mean, the world they live in, I mean, being on the ground.

• 2:57:50Speaker 03

  I think it should be a requirement. I think if you're gonna be considered an authority on that thing, you have to have observational data as well as scientific data. You can't just live in a world where you're like, "I've studied them in pickle jars, and I can tell you everything about them."

• 2:58:04Speaker 02

  Well, to me, that was like one of the most fascinating aspects of Chimp Nation. You know, that these scientists had been embedded with these particular chimpanzees for more than 20 years.

• 2:58:13Speaker 03

  That's science.

• 2:58:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:58:15Speaker 03

  That is science. That means you're sitting there, and that's why the best scientists are the guys that hunt and fish and spend their life surrounded by these animals that will never once be credited as a scientist. Because all they do is study the behavior of the animal. And I'm with you, like, that is, that's the real deal. 20 years, watching a troop of chimps, learning their behavior, understanding their social dynamic. I'm not saying you shouldn't also cut one open and measure its canines. You should, when you get a dead one. But that doesn't make you an authority on it.

• 2:58:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:58:46Speaker 03

  In my opinion.

• 2:58:47Speaker 02

  Well, that was the thing about that particular documentary and those particular scientists, was it was so unusual, that they had this long history where these chimpanzees had lived and died and raised new chimps around these people. And as long as they followed this protocol, stay within, you know, 20 yards, at least 20 yards away from them, never have food around them, don't look them in the eyes. You're good.

• 2:59:09Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:59:09Speaker 02

  And you got insane footage because of that.

• 2:59:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, because there's a mutual respect. Like, they've learned to appreciate each other. And you can't do that with every animal. Like, it doesn't matter how many years you spend sitting watching a crocodile. It'll still eat you at the first chance it gets. But you've earned a mutual respect with a highly intelligent creature. That, to me, as a field biologist, is science. That's incredible.

• 2:59:33Speaker 02

  If not a respect, at the very least, you've become a part of their world to the point where they don't think of you as being an anomaly.

• 2:59:40Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:59:41Speaker 02

  So they act normal.

• 2:59:42Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:59:43Speaker 02

  Where they're not, they're not weirded out. Like, if you just show up out of nowhere and you're wearing a space suit, the monkeys are gonna go, "Hey."

• 2:59:49Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:59:50Speaker 02

  "Fuck is this new thing?" But if there's always people with space suits around, and they never bother them, they go, "Oh, it's just the space suit guy. Normal. I'm just gonna go eat my bananas like normal."

• 3:00:00Speaker 03

  It's the same as seeing, you know, an impala and a wildebeest hang out together at a watering hole. They're used to each other. They know they're not threats to each other. But you or I walk up, and both of their ears perk up, and they sprint in different directions. Like, you can have that time put in to make things calm. It's amazing.

• 3:00:16Speaker 02

  But I mean, has there ever been anything other than Chimp Nation, where they did that that effectively?

• 3:00:21Speaker 03

  I mean, Grizzly Man sure tried.

• 3:00:23Speaker 02

  Uh, it didn't work out so well.

• 3:00:25Speaker 03

  Didn't end well.

• 3:00:27Speaker 02

  Or did it?

• 3:00:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:28Speaker 02

  It probably ended the way he wanted it to, honestly.

• 3:00:31Speaker 03

  There's no way he could have wanted to go out any other way.

• 3:00:34Speaker 02

  I think, I think that was suicide by bear.

• 3:00:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:37Speaker 02

  I also think it was Werner Herzog's attempt at comedy.

• 3:00:40Speaker 03

  You think?

• 3:00:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's something about the way he edited it where I'm like, this guy's fucking with us. Cause there's one time where he talking about the sheriff and they asked the sheriff, like, what do you thought of him? And the sheriff goes, well, I thought he was retarded. And then they smash cut to something else. I'm like, you're trying to make me laugh, Werner.

• 3:00:58Speaker 03

  It's pretty funny though.

• 3:01:00Speaker 02

  I've wanted to try to get him on the podcast and that's gonna be one of, he probably never answer honestly. Because it would probably be disrespectful to Timothy Treadwell and just.

• 3:01:08Speaker 03

  You gotta get him though.

• 3:01:10Speaker 02

  I would love to get him on just cause I think he's amazing.

• 3:01:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:01:12Speaker 02

  And also his documentary Happy People, Life in the Taiga is one of my favorite documentaries of all time.

• 3:01:17Speaker 03

  Oh, really? I don't know it. It's good?

• 3:01:19Speaker 02

  It's all about these people that live in Siberia.

• 3:01:21Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 3:01:21Speaker 02

  And they have like no mental illness and all they do is they live a subsistence lifestyle. They're just hunting and fishing and trapping and they ride around on snowmobiles and they make these huts and they live up there with their dogs. And they have these extended periods of time where they're alone.

• 3:01:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:01:38Speaker 02

  And all they're doing is like taking their snowmobiles to different traps and, and gathering wood for fire and fish to eat. It's, and they're all happy and they're drinking and laughing and they're like, it's weird. Because he, he documents it and it's called Happy People. That's what the documentary is called. And it's like with his, like, the way he describes these people living in Siberia.

• 3:02:07Speaker 03

  Nice Siberia.

• 3:02:07Speaker 02

  Fucking amazing.

• 3:02:08Speaker 03

  Oh, that's cool.

• 3:02:09Speaker 02

  It's really amazing. It's amazing documentary. I think he's credible.

• 3:02:12Speaker 03

  I have said forever, you don't, all, look, mental illness is a real thing. I'm not gonna pretend it's not. But if you spend a lot of time outside and in nature and especially by yourself, it, the noise goes away. I don't care who you are. I don't care what your history is, drug history, anything. When you, you're much more present when you're alone in nature.

• 3:02:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:02:35Speaker 03

  And mental illness, I have no experience in this. This is just opinion. But mental illness comes from when you're wrapped up in your own being, right? When you're thinking about all the problems and this, that, and the other thing. But when you're alone in nature, you have to think about your surroundings and what you're doing and you don't have time to sit and manifest on these things.

• 3:02:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:02:54Speaker 03

  That create depression and anxiety and all of those types of things.

• 3:02:57Speaker 02

  There's also no comparison. You're not comparing yourself to anyone else. Cause you're living in a community that are subsistence lifestyle people.

• 3:03:04Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 3:03:05Speaker 02

  All these people are doing the same thing you're doing.

• 3:03:07Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 3:03:07Speaker 02

  They, what are you gonna do? You gonna have the biggest fish? Like, nobody gives a fuck.

• 3:03:10Speaker 03

  Nobody cares.

• 3:03:10Speaker 02

  It's all hunting, fishing.

• 3:03:11Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 3:03:12Speaker 02

  Living off the land.

• 3:03:13Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 3:03:13Speaker 02

  They all do it and they're all like sharing and drinking together and having fun.

• 3:03:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:03:18Speaker 02

  It's really wild when you watch it. You go, well, it got boiled down to like the most simplistic, community-driven ways that people exist like this. Like, seems to be the best way for people to live.

• 3:03:30Speaker 03

  But like you said earlier, you have to have both sides, right, of the coin. It's like the red and blue in Texas. Because you have to have innovators and over thinkers and workers or it wouldn't be a society.

• 3:03:39Speaker 02

  Or they, and by the way, they wouldn't exist because they use snowmobiles and not one of those motherfuckers is gonna invent a snowmobile.

• 3:03:45Speaker 03

  Exactly. So you gotta have the red and the blue. You gotta have both sides. Yeah.

• 3:03:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 3:03:51Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 3:03:51Speaker 02

  Well, hey, brother. It's always good to talk to you. This was really fun.

• 3:03:54Speaker 03

  Really fun.

• 3:03:55Speaker 02

  What, is this you in the crocodile thing?

• 3:03:56Speaker 03

  Oh, here it is.

• 3:03:57Speaker 02

  Oh my god, dude, you, you didn't tell me you put meat all around the outside of it.

• 3:04:01Speaker 03

  Told you I was an idiot. Look at this. We made that cage, by the way, and I am no engineer.

• 3:04:06Speaker 02

  Oh my god, that cage looks so flimsy. That thing looks so flimsy and you're just hanging by a thread.

• 3:04:16Speaker 03

  Uh, literally, like this cable that we sourced from a village and hoped it would hold up. I mean, we tested it as far as put some rocks in it and tested it and empty cage, but.

• 3:04:24Speaker 02

  Dude, this is a terrible idea.

• 3:04:26Speaker 03

  It was dumb. It was dumb.

• 3:04:27Speaker 02

  Look at these things doing death rolls.

• 3:04:28Speaker 03

  But people are gonna watch this, Joe, and they're gonna learn about crocodiles.

• 3:04:31Speaker 02

  Great thing you filmed it.

• 3:04:33Speaker 03

  Right?

• 3:04:33Speaker 02

  God, man. That's insane.

• 3:04:36Speaker 03

  It was fun.

• 3:04:37Speaker 02

  Uh, that, that cage looks way too flimsy. Don't do that again.

• 3:04:40Speaker 03

  I'm not doing it again, I promise. Yeah.

• 3:04:41Speaker 02

  Um, tell people how they can see that, where, where they can find all your stuff.

• 3:04:45Speaker 03

  Dude, it's Shark Week. We got an awesome show coming out this week. Um, Alien Sharks Untamed America. Looking at some incredible sharks, celebrating America's birthday, our craziest, weirdest sharks.

• 3:04:55Speaker 02

  How long has, Shark Week has been going on since the eighties.

• 3:04:59Speaker 03

  Thirty-nine years old, same age as me. Yeah.

• 3:05:03Speaker 03

  It's been around my whole life.

• 3:05:04Speaker 02

  That is so crazy.

• 3:05:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's an institution.

• 3:05:07Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:05:08Speaker 03

  Plus, we got the YouTube channel. That's where I'm doing most of my stuff now. I hope people check that. I know you watch some videos.

• 3:05:13Speaker 02

  Yes, I do.

• 3:05:13Speaker 03

  I've heard you comment. I appreciate that.

• 3:05:15Speaker 02

  Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate you doing that stuff, man. It's awesome.

• 3:05:18Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me, dude. Always a blast.

• 3:05:19Speaker 02

  Always great to see you. Alright, bye, everybody.

• 3:05:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.