#2530 - Timothy Alberino

Timothy Alberino is an author, lecturer, and explorer. His latest release is a new edition of the ancient text “The Book of Enoch,” for which he wrote the introduction and commentary. www.youtube.com/@TimothyAlberinowww.timothyalberino.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 02

  What's up, Tim?

• 0:13Speaker 03

  What's up, Tim?

• 0:15Speaker 02

  What's going on?

• 0:16Speaker 03

  What's up, Joe?

• 0:17Speaker 02

  Nice to meet you.

• 0:18Speaker 03

  Great to be with you.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  Uh, I've seen a lot of your content online, but the one that got me the most was absolutely the giant in Afghanistan, the Kandahar Giant Story. And I don't know if you know, but um, I had Devin LaRott on the podcast, The Arm Wrestler, and he told a story about how when he was in the Canadian military, he was deployed in Afghanistan. And um, one of the guys that he was working with over there had to have a conversation with a warlord, with a local warlord. And he said this guy was eight feet tall. He said this guy was fucking huge, and not just tall, but wide. He said it was the biggest man he's ever seen in his life.

• 0:58Speaker 03

  Well, I've heard a lot of things about giants in Afghanistan. And I find that, you know, I talk about a lot of different topics. I talk about a lot of UFO stuff. And I say some things that I know are, that I know could get me in trouble, but nothing makes me more nervous than talking about giants, specifically the Kandahar Giant. And the giants in Kandahar in general.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  Why?

• 1:27Speaker 03

  You know, mainly because when I talk to people who know things, they're very, very nervous when we get to this topic. And some of them will just flat out will not talk about giants in general, but specifically giants in Afghanistan. And some of these guys are high-level guys that worked at the Pentagon. And they'll talk rather freely with me about UFOs. But as soon as we broach this topic, it's like, they literally will warn me, be careful with this topic.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  What? What do you make of that?

• 2:06Speaker 03

  Well, I think that the topic of giants is intermeshed with the occult. That's my personal theory, because nothing else makes sense. Who cares if there's eight-foot-tall guys, right? Big deal.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Right. Well, there's eight-foot-tall humans, right? There's, we were just talking about that young kid that's a basketball player that's seven-foot-nine, right?

• 2:28Speaker 03

  There's a few of them now, I've seen.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. So there's actual giants that are in public.

• 2:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  That like, play for the NBA.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  They're out there. You could meet them.

• 2:38Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. But when I talk, when I say giants, I'm talking about nine to 12 feet tall.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:44Speaker 03

  That's, that's, eight to 12 feet tall would, I would classify an eight-foot-tall person as a giant as well, as long as they don't have gigantism.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Right.

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  That's a completely different thing.

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  Right.

• 2:55Speaker 03

  Gigantism is a disability.

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  This Kandahar Giant Story is very crazy, because what's interesting about it is, the people that I've talked to that have been in Afghanistan, that were deployed in Afghanistan, not just Devin, but other people, they don't dismiss it. They say, "We've heard some weird shit about that place." And the thing that they always say is, you gotta realize, like, Afghanistan is an old country. It's old and it's very remote. Like, most of it is very mountainous, it's controlled by warlords. And, you know, look, there's these, what are those, are they Greek or Roman, those structures that are there? That were, that date, the Greek, they look like Greek temples that date back to Alexander the Great.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  And archaeologists can't study them. They can't go there, because it's too dangerous.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  It's one of the most remote places on the planet, specifically because it's so dangerous. You can't just go strolling around Afghanistan.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:53Speaker 03

  I mean, you probably would, it probably would be easier to go to Antarctica than Afghanistan.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  That's kind of hilarious.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  And, so, the story of the Kandahar Giant.

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  Yeah, let's tell the story.

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  This story has grown into a mythology over the years. Years ago, I was working with a gentleman named Steve Quayle, and we started a production company called Gen Six Productions. And we were making documentary films mainly about giants, mainly on the topic of giants.

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  Giants as like, referred to in the Bible, in ancient history, the Smithsonian Giants?

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  That's right. Biblical and historical accounts of giants. So I was traveling around the world investigating giants, and Steve is known for his investigations into giants. And he got a phone call from an elderly, an elderly woman who told him, "You need to talk to my son. My son has a story he needs to tell you." And she had to convince her son to talk to Steve, and ultimately, he did. And he was active duty. He was a C-130 pilot, active duty. He actually went on coast-to-coast with Steve. They went on coast-to-coast together, and he related his story, I believe with George Norrie, him, Steve and George. And then later on, we flew him into Bozeman, Montana, to put him in our documentary film

• 5:12Speaker 03

  that we were making. And he did not, he wanted to be filmed in silhouette. He did not want his face out there, even though he knew that they're going to be able to mark him just by his voice. So, he flies into Bozeman, we meet with him, he shows us his credentials, he was active duty C-130. And then he told us the following story, among many other things that he told us. He said, "Back in 2005, he was deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq, running missions as a C-130 cargo pilot. And oftentimes, they would have him fly into Bagram Airfield. And these were routine missions, and so, on one of these missions, he's flying into

• 5:56Speaker 03

  Bagram. But this time, when he landed, he was met, as soon as he deplaned, he was met on the tarmac by some individuals that he describes as the babysitters. He calls them the babysitters. He thinks they were either Army Intelligence or Air Force Intelligence guys. They didn't tell him. But this was different, because when he disembarked, they told him, no photos, no mention of this ever, this never happened. So he knew that whatever was about to happen was top secret. And he had flown classified missions before, usually retrieving Taliban guys, what he described as high-valued assets.

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  But this was different, because these, there were intelligence guys on the tarmac, waiting for something. And it turns out, what they were waiting for was the cargo that was being delivered on a forklift to the, to the C-130. And the pilot says that the first thing that struck him, as this cargo was moving toward him and his crew, was the, was the odor. He said it smelled like this, like musk, BO and death, and it was extremely pungent. And when the cargo arrived, it was on a, an air cargo pallet, which is seven by nine,

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  and there was a, he could see that there was a person on the pallet in the fetal position. And this individual was so large, that his hands and his feet and part of his head were, were hanging off the pallet. And he and his loadmaster, and there were some Marines who accompanied the pallet, who accompanied this cargo, uh, they were actually putting their feet up to this guy's feet, this dead giant's feet, and seeing how small their feet were compared to his. Now, the giant had red hair, he had six fingers on each hand, six toes on each foot.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  His feet were wrapped in like, a crude canvas foot wrapping. And he was solid as a rock. Again, most of his body was covered by a tarp, but the pilot and the guys around him were, were hitting him with their fists. And he came up to about their, their midsection, laying in the fetal position, and he, and the pilot told me, "He was solid as a rock, this guy." And he asked the, the Marines, "What happened? Where did this guy come from?" And they told him that they had heard.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  That there was a team that was out in Afghanistan that was looking for Taliban or something. And they came upon a cave because there was a nearby village and the villagers were were bringing food and other artifacts to the mouth of this cave. And so they thought that they're aiding and abetting the Taliban. So they went into the cave and rather than encountering the Taliban, what they found was this enormous humanoid who killed them all. And then, according to these soldiers, they deployed another team to go look for that team. And when they found the cave, they found the traces of that other team. They were ready, they were prepared, and they were able to kill the giant.

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  In fact, the soldiers told the pilot that the giant was eating on members of the team who he had, who had killed previously. But these new guys, they took him down and then they had a, a transport helicopter come in and airlift him to Bagram.

• 9:29Speaker 02

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• 11:58Speaker 02

  Did you ever try to find records of who was there and casualties that were reported, deaths that were reported?

• 12:09Speaker 03

  Um, it's very difficult. The Pentagon actually released a statement some years ago, which is bizarre to me. You know, basically saying, and paraphrasing, "The Kandahar Giant Incident never happened." There was never a giant that was killed in Afghanistan.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  The Pentagon?

• 12:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a representative, it was like a spokesman from the Pentagon or something, or a release from the Pentagon.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  Is this available online?

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. They actually felt the need to debunk this.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  That's hilarious.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Now.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  That, that gets me sketchy.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  Well, I believed the pilot because he was a very credible guy. He didn't want his name out there. He didn't want fame or notoriety. He was very nervous. He thought, "There's a good chance that they're going to recognize me by my voice." He was on Coast to Coast AM. And then he's on, in our documentary, "There's a good chance I'm going to get recognized and there's going to be some reprisal." He was nervous. Now, they weighed the giant before they loaded him on the C-130. Because they have to load everything that goes under the C-130. The loadmaster weighed him. He weighed 1,100 pounds. And they estimated his, his height at 10 to 12 feet tall. And so they loaded him onto the C-130 and then they flew him to Qatar.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  And then they, they unloaded the cargo in Qatar. And, and our pilot told me, he heard through the grapevine that the body ended up at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. He said, "I don't know, that's just what I heard." So this is a firsthand account from the C-130 pilot who flew the body himself from Bagram Airfield to Qatar.

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  Why does all the weird shit go to Wright Patterson?

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  That's a good question.

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  Because that's where the weird shit goes.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Wright Patterson used to have the, the Blue Room. I don't know if they still have it, but they used to have a room there called the Blue Room where they had all of the alien artifacts that had been recovered and that they were studying. And it was completely off limits to anybody except for people who had access, the very few who had access. And, but the Kandahar Giant, you know, that story, a colleague of mine, Eli Marsoli, he had another guy come to him, a different guy. We, we interviewed the pilot, Steve and I. LA had another guy come to him that was, I can't remember the details, he was a special forces guy, he had firsthand knowledge of the event as well. And we're not sure if it's the same one or a different one.

• 14:32Speaker 03

  If it's, if there was just one incident with the Giants or if there were multiple incidents. Now, years later, this would be just a couple of years ago because we published that film, I think back in 2016. But just a couple of years ago, and I, I do have to be very careful here, I, I ran into a gentleman who was, who was a very high up, let's say, in the operations happening out there during the Iraq War and in, and in Afghanistan. And this individual, uh, had, um, he, he'd flown a lot of missions. And, and he was a commander.

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  And I asked him, we were having a casual conversation and he starts to walk away and I said, "Hey, you were in, flying missions in Afghanistan." I said, "Did you, have you ever heard about the Kandahar Giant?" And his wife was standing next to me and he's sort of walking away. He turns around, the blood rushes out of his face and he literally goes like this to me. Points to his phone. And his wife whispers, "He can't talk about that." So later on, I was able to, we agreed to meet it later on and, and in a, in a very controlled environment. Um, and, and he related a story to me that's the most wild story I've, I've ever heard in my life and I, I'm sorry, I can't relate it.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  Um, I love this guy, I want to protect him, but, um, it's not the giant of Kandahar, it's the giants of Kandahar. There's more than one. The military has known about it. I, then, and aside from him, I talked to other soldiers who've also, um, who've also had knowledge of that, the specific incident that I cited earlier, but then also in general, the giants in Afghanistan. And I have a friend of mine who, uh, I met some years ago, actually I was with Lou Elizondo at Lou's Bar in Wyoming.

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  And, uh, there is a, a friend of Lou's who's now a friend of mine there. And we were talking about the Kandahar Giant. I was just telling him the story I told you. And he just couldn't believe it. He thought, "This is, this is nuts. This is crazy." And I said, "Okay, do something for me. Next time you're talking to somebody in government or in the military who you think maybe might know something about this, bring it up. See what happens." So he called me one day and he said, "Tim, you're not going to believe it." He said, "I was talking to," I have to be very careful here too. He said, "I was talking to a certain individual who works for a senator. He's a, he's a staffer. I think, I believe he's one of the, a chief of staff for the senator. Or at the very least, an advisor.

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  And he's got a military background, special forces. And he said, "I was sitting there, we're, we're really good friends." He said, "We're having a casual conversation as we always do." And just in the midst of this conversation, I said, "Hey, what, what do you know about..." The Kandahar Giant. And he said, his face completely contorted. And he was no longer just, they were no longer just being happy and laughing. He became very stern. And he, and he said, what have you gotten yourself into? What, what are you looking into? He said, you need to be really careful. And he wouldn't tell him anything else.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  That's the kind of reaction that, that I get and others get whenever we, we try and get information on this story.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  It's a very fun story. I don't know why it's so fun, but it's very fun. Um, but the question is, what would be the reason why they would want to keep something like this a secret? I don't, I don't totally understand it.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  I don't either.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  I mean, if there really were a race of giants that survived, let's, let's assume that what we're talking about is what's referenced in the Bible, right? Let's, let's assume, or at least the book of Enoch, or the Nephilim, right? If we're talking about giants, like, the thing about giants is, like, Native Americans have stories about redheaded giants. They, they talk about the same thing, about them having six fingers and six toes. They have these same myths. Like, how is it that people from the Middle East and people from North America have this same ancient story? And what is it, what is it in reference to? Like, why, why does that?

• 19:09Speaker 03

  It's ubiquitous, this, I mean, the legends of giants are universal all over the world.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Why hide that? That's what I don't understand. Like, the stories about the Smithsonian are always fascinating.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Because the stories are, there have been archaeological digs, and they have discovered, like, enormous femurs that they thought were like woolly mammoths or something. And then they realize, like, well, this is a giant human. And they find hair, and the hair is red, and that they, and that they take these bones, and they tuck them away somewhere. I mean, this is always the myth. They tuck them away in the basement of the Smithsonian or somewhere else. And for whatever reason, the general public is not allowed to know about this. And I don't totally understand, what is it about giants that they would try to keep from us? Like, if they find a new species of dinosaur that's extinct, they'll let you know.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Fascinating, amazing. They find, um, Homo floresiensis, or however you say it, the little hobbit people.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

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  They'll let you know. Look, we found a little hobbit people, pretty cool. Giants, for whatever reason.

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  You know, uh, it is a, it's a conundrum, and

• 20:16Speaker 02

  If it's real.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  It's

• 20:18Speaker 02

  You think it's real.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Giants in general?

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Hundred percent.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  What makes you think it's real?

• 20:25Speaker 03

  Okay, so, um, let me tell you why I think that this thing's being covered up, and then

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  And then I'll tell you why I think it's real.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  And we'll go to Sardinia for that. So, I, like you, have been wondering for a long time, like, what is the big deal? And initially, people in my field, especially people who are coming from a biblical perspective, the common answer is, well, the existence of giants would affirm the biblical narrative, right? And so the secular atheist types don't want the biblical narrative affirmed. I, that can't be, that can't be right, because the existence of giants doesn't just affirm the biblical narrative, it affirms the myths and legends of every ancient culture across the globe.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  Including the Bible. So, it's not something that's specific, exclusive to the text of scripture. So it would just affirm all these legends in, in general. So, the only thing that makes sense to me at this point, and the other line of thinking, by the way, would be that it would somehow conflict with the theory of evolution by natural selection, which I don't really buy into that either, because they would just say that this branch of humanoids, um, they descended from Gigantopithecus or something like that. I don't think it would be that difficult of a problem for the theory of evolution by natural selection either. Um, I'm not myself an evolutionist, but I don't, I don't see them having that difficult of a problem here. So the only thing left on the table for me is that there's something very sinister going

• 21:53Speaker 03

  on in regard to the remains of giants. And if you study the mythology of giants all over the world, especially in the ancient Near East, you will discover that there was in fact a cult of giants, that there, that there were cultures that venerated giants, and that there was a very particular belief about giants. And this goes back into the book of Enoch. And the idea is that this race of beings who are not entirely human, they're hybrids, that when they die, you can still make contact with their spirits, with their souls. They can be summoned. They, in fact, these are the demons that, these are the, in the New Testament of the

• 22:37Speaker 03

  Bible, these are the demons that possess people. This is the origin of demons, by the way, in Hebrew cosmology. So there's this pervasive idea, again, especially in the ancient Near East, that dead giants can be communicated with and, and can possess living human beings, their spirits. And so you have a cult of giants in the ancient Near East, especially among the Canaanites. And the Canaanites, they had, actually, there's, uh, there's various customs and, and, and rites related to giants, but one of the specific ones that we know about is called Kispum, the Rite of Kispum.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  And there's a fantastic book written by my, my friends Derek and Sharon Gilbert called Veneration, where they detail the Rite of Kispum. And this idea of making contact with the spirits of dead giants, and the veneration of giants. And the Rite of Kispum was, it was practiced broadly speaking in, in the ancient Near East, but specifically among the Amorites and other Canaanite clans as well. And, and what they would do is, they would hold a feast, and then they would invite the dead to come and join them at the feast. So this was a necromantic rite. And they would, they would evoke the dead, and they believed that the dead would come and, and eat with them.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  Now, the kings, and specifically the Amorite kings, they would invoke the spirits of the mighty ones, the great ones, the giants of old, the Rephaim. The biblical account names various different clans of giants that inhabited the Levant during and after the conquest by Joshua and the, and the Hebrews. And you, you had the Anakim, who descended from the Nephilim. You had the Rephaim, the Zamzumim, the Amim. These are various clans of giants that are specifically named in the Bible. Of course, we get Goliath of Gath. Gath is a Philistine city. After Joshua entered the promised land, they drove out and eradicated a lot of these giant clans.

• 24:46Speaker 03

  But some of them remained. Some of the individuals remained, and they were primarily went to the Philistine cities of Gaza, Gath, and Ashtar. And so you have Goliath of Gath, who David encounters later in the biblical text. So it's these heroes of old, these, these descendants of the Nephilim, that the Amorites and the ancient Near Easterners are, are attempting to make contact with, because they have knowledge. And they, they, these are possessing spirits. And so the Rite of Kispum, that the kings would summon the Rephaim by name. And you can find this in the Ugaritic texts. Ugarit was an Amorite city-state located on, uh, on, on the shore of the Mediterranean,

• 25:31Speaker 03

  in, in what is today northern Syria. And they have uncovered documents where the Amorite kings are summoning, specifically by name, summoning dead giants, the Rephaim. And the idea is to summon them, and then to become empowered by their spirits, their possessing spirits. Again, this goes back to the tradition of Enoch, that the giants, when they die, their spirits are in sort of a state of suspended animation, and they can be revived, they can be resurrected, as it were, and, and can be made to inhabit the bodies of human beings. So there's this ancient cult that existed in the ancient Near East and in other parts of the world. And it's associated with the cult of Baal.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  So you have Baal, the giants were thought of as the warriors of Baal. So today, we know that the cult of Baal persists. I mean, the Epstein files. We know that the cult of Baal is still being practiced.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  When you say the Epstein files, what do you mean?

• 26:33Speaker 03

  There's references to Baal. And there's this recurrent theme of Baal worship. And Baal, Jesus, Jesus refers to Baal as Satan in the New Testament. So it's basically Satanism. It's a satanic cult.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  And how's it referenced in the Epstein files?

• 26:54Speaker 03

  There's some references to Baal. I can't remember the exact references, but there's apparently a cult of Baal. And the elites are obsessed with, some of the elites, I don't know who or how many of them. But it's becoming increasingly apparent that there's a, that there's an infatuation with these ancient Near Eastern cults, specifically the Canaaniteish cults. And so, the reason why I'm going through all of this is because I think it's still alive and well today in society. And I believe that they're using the bones, the remains of giants in these practices. I think it's extremely dark. I think this is part of the reason why, part of the reason why there may be a cover-up around it.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Nothing else makes sense to me. Nothing else makes sense to me.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  In terms of the cover-up?

• 27:43Speaker 03

  In terms of the cover-up.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Well, the cover-up, it makes sense to me, that you have incredibly powerful, wealthy people that don't want to be exposed as being perverts and whatever the fuck they were up to. And there's all the weird shit with beef jerky and pizza. You know, there's these very strange references that seem to not be talking about beef jerky. It's some kind of code. And there's also the fact that he brought an enormous amount of sulfuric acid, like right after he was indicted to the island. Like, I forget how many gallons of it, but barrels of sulfuric acid, which is what you would use to dissolve bodies. So it's like, it seems like there's a lot of reasons for a cover-up.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  If this guy was running some sort of blackmail operation and had information on powerful people, that would make sense, that that's why they would cover it up.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Well, that's the cover-up of the pedophilia.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Or just, even if it's not pedophilia, even just adultery, or drug use, or whatever.

• 28:51Speaker 05

  The Baal thing apparently comes up on a bank file, and it may have been misinterpreted. It does say B-A-A-L dot name. But people who are digging into this say that it might have just been a misinterpretation. That's the only mention of it.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Misinterpretation?

• 29:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, it's, another page here shows it. Here's like the document. It might have just, I don't know, it doesn't even say it there, that I can see it.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not sure exactly.

• 29:22Speaker 05

  Here's where it says it.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Exactly where Baal is referenced specifically.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, right there.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  There for one place, for sure.

• 29:27Speaker 05

  A bank document, I don't know if that has anything to do with the occult specifically.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Just imagine if it's the name of Satan, and this is the name of your bank account.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, that's quite odd.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  Well, that's at least creepy.

• 29:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  At least creepy.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you have this scenario in which, let's just say for the sake of argument that it's true.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Okay, that the legends are true, the giants are real. That you can make contact with their spirits.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Through their bones?

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Through, maybe through their remains. That, or at least people believe this.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Is there some sort of a method that they use?

• 30:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, okay, so this will get us into Sardinia. So, whenever anyone asks me, "What's the best evidence you've ever seen for the existence of giants?" Now, you've already cited some historical context around this. The legend of giants is everywhere, it's on every continent. And you have giants, aside from the biblical account, obviously, all over the Mesopotamia, the cult of giants. In the United States, during the era of the Smithsonian Gate, the Smithsonian's apparent, Smithsonian Institution's apparent cover-up of giants, especially the ones that were being discovered in the mounds here in the United States. But it's pervasive. In Peru, there's legends of giants.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  And the natives, the indigenous peoples, absolutely believed there was a primordial race of giants. The same thing in Central America. They believe there was a primordial race of giants that was destroyed in a cataclysm, specifically a flood. That's what the Inca believed. That Betocha, the guy Betocha created first a race of giants, but they were stupid and evil, and so he destroyed them in a flood. Same story down in, up in Mexico and among the Aztec. And the Native Americans, the six-finger, red-haired giants, and so forth. So, there's a lot of historical context, and I would, and of course, it's anecdotal, but it's, but how much anecdotal evidence just, at one point, does anecdotal evidence just become evidence?

• 31:33Speaker 03

  When it's so pervasive all over the world?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:37Speaker 03

  So, as I was traveling around the world studying giants and researching this topic and investigating different stories and legends, I went to Malta, which is very interesting, obviously, lots of legends of giants in Malta associated with the megaliths. And then, and then I kind of hit ground zero for giants, which is the island of Sardinia. And the island of Sardinia is located west of Rome, it's part of Italy, it's in the Western Mediterranean, below Corsica. And many people don't realize this about Sardinia, but Sardinia has the highest, has the most megaliths anywhere on Earth.

• 32:21Speaker 03

  It has the highest concentration of megaliths anywhere that I've been, as far as I'm aware of. There are these massive megalithic towers called Nuraghi that were constructed allegedly by the, or conventionally, by the Nuraghi, the Nuraghi civilization, Bronze Age civilization. And there are today still at least 7,000 of these things standing. You can go to Sardinia and see 7,000 Nuraghi towers. There are at one time 10,000 to 30,000 of these megalithic towers. And some of these towers stood over 100 feet tall.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Jamie, can we see some pictures of these?

• 33:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, how would he look?

• 33:10Speaker 03

  Nuraghi, Sardinia Nuraghi.

• 33:12Speaker 05

  I was looking, I got three different things, so I don't, I guess this is it. Is that, yeah, that's what it is.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  So, what is the timeline of this Nuraghi, how do you say it, Nuraghi?

• 33:24Speaker 03

  The Nuraghi civilization, it's the Bronze Age.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Bronze Age. So what is that?

• 33:28Speaker 03

  3300 to, 3300 B.C. to about 1200 B.C.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  And that's what this stuff is from?

• 33:34Speaker 03

  And they say it was, they say that these were built in the Bronze Age. That's the conventional idea. And, again, there's 7,000 of them on the island today, but there were up to, I've seen estimates up to 30,000, including at the museum in Sardinia. And, aside from these towers, they also have, these are, by the way, these are megalithic. So these are megalithic towers that are constructed in the cyclopean style. And cyclopean masonry, cyclopean architecture, is the trademark of megaliths worldwide. And cyclopean, this is the archaeological term for the technique.

• 34:17Speaker 03

  Cyclopean referencing the great cyclopes of Greek mythology, who are believed to be the inventors of tower building. And, you know, the builders, the offspring of the gods, who are the great builders and masons. That's the mythology. But the trademark of cyclopean architecture is that these are large stones that are fitted together without the use of any binding agent, like mortar, without any kind of mortar. And you have exquisite examples of cyclopean masonry in different parts of the Earth, like in Peru, the walls of Saciúman are absolutely amazing, breathtakingly beautiful

• 34:57Speaker 03

  in regard to their design, and the polygonal, tightly fitting blocks, immense blocks of stone. Whereas in Sardinia, these are crude blocks, the crudely worked blocks of basalt and granite and limestone, that are fitted together but without the use of mortar. So they are built in the cyclopean style. Again, some of them were 100 feet tall. And they had a, some of them were for defensive purposes, and some of them had a wooden platform that crowned the top, and that platform was buttressed by other very large stones that were finely cut, sometimes basalt. I've seen some of these stones in Sardinia. And I've been to the island a few times, researching the towers and giants.

• 35:42Speaker 03

  And, aside from the towers, these megalithic towers, you also have megalithic tombs, which are called, to this day, the tombs of the giants. And you can go and visit them, there were, there's 800 of them extant today, and archaeologists believe there were many more in the past. No one knows exactly how many, but oftentimes, it seems to me that the towers and the tombs are closely associated. They fulfill a function, I think, that is, that is interrelated. And the megalithic tombs of the giants, the legends, according to legend, in Sardinia, they were associated with the bodies of giants.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  But, of course, today, you have armchair archaeologists who'll say, "That's just a myth. You couldn't even fit bodies inside of these tombs." Yes, you could. I mean, none of these guys have ever bothered to go to Sardinia with a tape measure. I did. And, yes, you can. You can fit the bodies of nine, eight, nine, 10-foot-tall guys in these tombs without a problem. And there's two different styles of megalithic tombs in Sardinia. You have the stele style, which it's...

• 36:56Speaker 03

  There's a large steely stone, a monolithic stone in the front with a little doorway in it, and a doorway is almost like a little doggy door at the bottom. But it's big enough, I mean, a young person could crawl through it. And then you have the trilithon doorway, this style of megalithic tomb, which is a larger doorway, you still have to, like a guy my size would still have to bend down to get inside, but the tombs are configured the same, they're shaped the same, these two different styles. And what a lot of people misunderstand about the tombs is the tombs were not built to house the bodies of giants. They were built on top of the interred giant.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  So the giant was inhumed beneath the tomb, it was buried beneath the tomb, and then the edifice was built on top. So that opening-

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Where are you getting this information?

• 37:48Speaker 03

  This is known in Sardinia. I spent a lot of time researching the tombs of the giants in Sardinia and talking to various experts.

• 37:57Speaker 02

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• 39:25Speaker 02

  That's better, H-E-L-P dot com. And who, are these experts like local historians?

• 39:32Speaker 03

  Some of them, yeah, you can also go to the museums in Sardinia and read a lot of this stuff. Now, I have a friend named Paula Loy, who's, she's a, I think she's the best tour guide in Sardinia, and she's extremely knowledgeable about all this stuff. She'd take you to the museum and you walk through all of this information with her. And they have little models in the museum of the tombs of the giants. And there's a legend in Sardinia that it's called the Rite of Incubation. And this is a necromantic rite that was practiced by the Sardinians, and it describes the purpose of the tombs.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  So the tombs, when you walk into the tombs, again, they're megalithic, the walls are megalithic, some pretty large stones incorporated in these tombs. When you walk into the tombs, there's a gallery inside, and the gallery is rather large. You could fit a body vagina in there, but that's beside the point, because that's not the purpose of the tomb. The purpose of the tomb, of the gallery inside the tomb, is to, is for the, it's to accommodate a young person during a rite of passage. And during the Bronze Age, you're talking about boys from 12 to 14 years old, right? Generally speaking. And they would go into the tomb alone, and they would be sealed in the tomb.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  So that little doggy door that's in the stele, the steely version of the tombs of the giants, they would crawl in there and then they would be sealed inside. And there's a little, on most of those steely tombs, there's a little hole at the top as well, so there's, so it's not like they're sealed in there and they can't breathe or anything. No, they would go in there, and they would spend some days in the tomb alone.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  This is what it looks like?

• 41:27Speaker 03

  That's one of the doors with the steely, monolithic stone. And they're all shaped the same, it's hard to tell because they've been disassembled, many of them have been disassembled. But you can see there the trilithon, that's a trilithon tomb. That's something else, that's a well. But the tombs are all shaped, you can see down there, see right, the picture right below that one, there you go. See how the tombs are shaped?

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Now, that's how, all these tombs are shaped that way. This has to do with the rite of incubation, so the young person would go inside the gallery, they'd be sealed inside, the young boy, and they would, the purpose of this was to incubate inside of the gallery in order to be empowered and energized by the spirit of the mighty one buried beneath the tomb. And again, according to legend, the mighty ones were giants. So I don't think it's coincidental that the tombs are actually shaped like a womb. If you look at that, the view of the tomb from above, originally when I was researching this in Sardinia, I thought it was shaped like a bull's head, which would be something

• 42:35Speaker 03

  like iconographic of Molech or something like that, Canaanite-ish. But I realized that actually this is shaped like a womb. The tomb looks like a womb. If you pull up a womb, you'll see what I mean, it looks like a womb, shaped like a womb. And this was to accommodate the rite of incubation. And so these young people, the idea is they're in there, they are communing, incubating in the presence of the dead hero buried beneath, and they're absorbing their spirit, their prowess. And then the tomb is unsealed, and the young person emerges from the womb, as it were. It's like a new birth.

• 43:17Speaker 03

  They're now, they went in a boy, they're now coming out a man empowered by the spirit of their ancestral heroes. So these are called, to this day, the tombs of the giants. Now, you can say, well, that's just mythology, that's just Sardinian legend. The problem is, you can interview people, or at least you could in times past, interview Sardinians all across the island who have themselves dug up the bones of giants, or encountered the bones of giants in some kind of a, in some context, usually around the towers, the Nuraghi Towers.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  I interviewed dozens of people in Sardinia, most of them elderly, who had themselves encountered the bones of giants in different contexts, while plowing in fields, they'd pull up bones, or they would find the bones in the tombs or whatever. And it's very easy to dismiss the whole thing as, well, they're just digging up megafauna, right? The bones of mastodons and giant sloths. The problem is, some of these bones had jewelry. Some of them had Roman coins associated with them, some of them had rings on the fingers and necklaces around the neck, the collar.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  And they would actually, and most of these were old timers, because this doesn't, it's not really happening anymore in Sardinia, this is something that was happening in the 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s, and back. But especially between, like, post-World War II, when the island was undergoing a process of industrialization, and they were building new roads and digging for foundations and stuff, they were digging up the bones of giants. And there's a, there's a particular church called Santa Anastasia in Sardinia, and it's in the region of Sadara. And I interviewed two gentlemen in Sardinia, two guys, who were officially employed by

• 45:20Speaker 03

  the municipality and by the University of Cagliari. Cagliari is the capital city of Sardinia. They were specifically employed to excavate the ruins, the Nuragic ruins, on the premises of the Church of Santa Anastasia. Santa Anastasia is a small, little Catholic church. But if you go there, you'll see that even today, you can see the remains of a Nuragic settlement there. There's a, there are Nuraghi Towers there, it's just, it's an archaeological site. And these two individuals, one of them, his name was Giuseppe, the other's name was Roberto. And Giuseppe worked there from, he worked there from, I believe it was 1979 to 1981,

• 46:03Speaker 03

  and then Roberto worked there from 1982 to 1984. Both of these guys employed officially, in an official capacity from the municipality of Sadara, to do this excavation. And so they would be there, the protocol was, you go and you excavate the ruins, and all the artifacts you find get put into the church. So all the artifacts went into the Church of Santa Anastasia, and you can see this church, by the way, if you pull it up, it's called Santa Anastasia in Sardinia. And all the bones were put into the church, all the artifacts were put into the church. And among the artifacts that were being collected were the skeletons of giants, and not mastodons, not giant sloths.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  They have photographs of these things?

• 46:46Speaker 03

  These guys, they, well, of course not, but these guys were very reluctant to talk to us. The one guy, Roberto, was very nervous, he said, we were told never to talk about this, this never happened. Again, this was back in the 80s, he didn't think anything of it, he wasn't told, go to Santa Anastasia and look for the bones of giants, he was just told, go excavate the site. He was one of the excavators of Santa Anastasia. And the whole thing was being-

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Um, the whole thing was being supervised by the municipality and the, and the university. And, and he dug up, personally, he said he dug up the bodies, two bodies, ten foot tall guys, full skeletons. And he laid them out in the, these ones he laid out in the courtyard of the church. And he said, he, he notified the people in Kajadi of the discovery. And what would happen is all the artifacts that would go into the church, or in this case, outside of the church, somebody would come at night and take them all away. So they get there in the morning, all the artifacts are gone. He didn't know where they went. Um, the other individual, Giuseppe, he also excavated giants from Santa Anastasia.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  Various, various artifacts related to the giants, gigantic plates, gigantic cups and goblets, chalices. Um, they excavated, they excavated a lot of different artifacts, rings and, and earrings and necklaces and all kinds of, all manner of artifacts. And he told me that he remembers a particular case in which he and his wife, his wife was helping on this particular day, they're excavating in the ruins. And they found a skull that was so large, he said the skulls were three to four times larger than ours. He found this skull that was very large and it had part of the vertebrae attached. Some of these remains were not just skeletal, there was like, almost like mummified. And, and he and his wife together carried it into the church.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  He told me that while they were digging, they, they unsealed a compartment inside of one of the towers. There's this large room that was sealed, like the, the, it was just, it had collapsed or whatever was sealed, and they opened it up. And they went inside and there was a giant, this very large person sitting at a table. And, and there were, there's a really large plate and an oversized chalice there and, and he even had, he was eating oysters and mussels and clams that were still on the plate. And he was very large. I mean, these guys are, they're, when I say large, they're nine to 12 feet tall. That's how tall these guys are.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  And they were, it was remarkable. He was extremely well-preserved. And because apparently he had been almost like hermetically sealed in this thing. And so they, they took all the artifacts and the bones and, and put them into the church and, and the next day they were all gone. I mean, this was the procedure, it was, they, these guys uncovered a lot of interesting stuff at those, at that, that one particular, um, that one particular excavation at the Church of Santa Anastasia in Sardra, in Sardra. And he, they were filling the church up with so many artifacts that Giuseppe told me

• 49:57Speaker 03

  that he went over to the mayor and he told the mayor, is there anywhere else that we can put these bones, these artifacts, because we're running out of space in the church? And he was surprised at the mayor's response. The mayor looked at him and said, mind your own effing business. Put the artifacts in the church and shut your mouth. So, um, these are the kind of stories I would hear all the time in Sardinia. I mean, I could go on and on and on. I talked to one guy that was, uh, Si Vergilio was his name. He was a hundred years old, very, um, very interesting guy. And Si had, uh, been on a site when he was a young man. He, he, he told me a couple

• 50:39Speaker 03

  of stories, but he told me that he was, he was, he was working in a vineyard one time.

• 50:45Speaker 03

  And they were excavating in this, uh, they weren't excavating, they were, they were tilling the soil to plant a vineyard. And as they're tilling the soil, they start to dig up bones. And they realize these are very large skeletal, skeletal remains. And, uh, they were, they found like 20 of them and they were laying on top of each other in a crisscross pattern. And so as soon as they started to find these bones, the owner of the vineyard said, stop, stop, I have to notify the authorities. So he notifies the authorities and he came back to the workers and said, you guys have to get out of here. The authorities are coming. You have to leave now. And Si said that everyone left, but he hid in the bushes until everyone had left and he went back to work in the field because he wanted, he said, I needed the money and

• 51:31Speaker 03

  I wanted to actually get paid for the day's wage. So I went back and I worked and I kept tilling the field. And he said, all of a sudden, uh, well, the, the owner of the field came back and he said, what are you doing here? I told you to leave. And he said, I needed the money, so I'm going to keep working. And the guy said, no, no, I'll pay you double. Just get out of here. And while they're talking, the government guys pull up. And they, they pull up in some various vans and they come out and they, they start taking pictures of all the bones. And they, they take pictures of the bones of these skeletal, skeletal remains that are laying in these cross configurations. And then they load them all into the vans. And then they went up into the nearby Nurage. There was a, a Nurage there, one of these megalithic towers.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  And they were inside the Nurage looking at something, taking pictures. And Si said that they, they sealed up, like with cement, they sealed up this, this, um, tunnel, this, this something inside of it.

• 52:31Speaker 03

  And then they, and then they left. And I heard dozens of these kind of stories in Sardinia, dozens. These people have no reason to lie to me. I mean, these are, most of these are old timers. They, we didn't pay them. Um, they, they, they, you know, they, they live out in the country. I don't know if you've ever been, ever been to Sardinia. It's, it's, it's, it's like going back in time in Italy. These are very simple people that live out in the country. But as I said earlier, the bones, these giants are being found with artifacts.

• 52:59Speaker 05

  Uh, sorry to interrupt, but I'm looking at a story, but they're, they're talking about finding skeletons there. They're calling them skeletons, they're calling them giants, but they're referring to statues and they're talking about statues.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  Those are the giants of Monte Prado. Those are, um,

• 53:16Speaker 05

  Those different from that?

• 53:17Speaker 03

  Those are just statues. Those are giants of Monte Prado.

• 53:19Speaker 05

  I've been, there's, I mean, there's news articles, it goes back to the seventies.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, those are just statues. Yeah, those are in a museum there.

• 53:25Speaker 05

  But they call them skeletons is the only thing I'm saying. So there's like a little

• 53:28Speaker 03

  No, they're, they're, they're stone. They're in the museum.

• 53:31Speaker 05

  I know.

• 53:31Speaker 03

  They're about seven feet tall, I think. Um, some people wonder if those are actually...

• 53:37Speaker 05

  Uncovered skeletons. I saw another article here, it said like they found two giant skulls, but they're talking about the statues.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, those, some people wonder if those statues actually represented the, you know, the, the anatomical proportions of the giants. I, I don't know. I don't know that that's the case. But yeah, that's about all you're gonna hear if you go through.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  It just seems insane that there's not a photo, something of all these things, or that some wealthy crazy person didn't get ahold of someone and say, listen, I'll give you $10 million, get me a hand, you know, I want to put it in a glass case in my house. Cause we, we know that they've done that with Egyptian stuff, like a lot of Egyptian artifacts have been pilfered.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Yep. Artifacts from, a lot of artifacts from Peru.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:29Speaker 03

  Central and South America. Yeah, there's a, there's a very robust black market.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  Which is so wild, like who are these people that have these things?

• 54:36Speaker 03

  That's a good question. Well, I was told in Sardinia, they told me that in some cases they, the, the bones were confiscated. Um, they were gathered up and thrown into, into vehicles and carted away. Um, Si told me another story where he was digging a foundation for a house, he and, he and an associate. And they, they came upon a very large sarcophagus. And they pried it open and he said, there was a body of a very large person inside and had a black, it was wearing some sort of black fabric. And there were coins, uh, that, that were, uh, that were minted from, um, Antoninus Pius, the Roman emperor, from that time.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  And they reported, there was a local priest and they told the priest that they found a body, right? Like we found a dead body. What do we do? And so the priest came over and he looked down to the pit. He said, give me the coins. They gave him the coins. He said, break the bones up and, and, and distribute them in the foundation of the house. I mean, this was, you know, the, if you went to Sardinia today, I think you'd, you would think to yourself, okay, yeah, I can see how, there's no one's taking pictures or anything over here. This is like going way back in time in, in Italy, especially, um, especially back in the forties, fifties and sixties when most of these things happened. Now, the, the excavations at Santa Anastasia happened in the late seventies, early eighties. But all these other stories are coming from the, you know, sixties, fifties, forties. So,

• 56:02Speaker 03

  um, I, I mean, it, there was just so many people who I talked to. You know, random people would tell me as I interviewed them that, oh yeah, yeah, I was digging in my basement one time and, you know, years ago and, and, and I dug up a hand. It was, it was a hand, five fingers and, you know, it was, it was three times the size of my hand. And now...

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Five fingers?

• 56:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's random. That could just be, you know, megafauna or something. I don't know how many, what a giant sloth hand looks like or whatever. And let me say this, there is no question, none, no question, that a lot of the accounts that you hear about giants, not the ones associated with coins and jewelry, but a lot of the accounts that you hear about giants and the skeletons of giants, they do have prosaic explanations. A lot of them do end up being megafauna bones, especially giant sloths and stuff like that. There's a case in Peru, actually it was in Ecuador. This is referenced in the Chronicles of Peru, that there's a place called Santa Elena and it's the, it's a peninsula in, in Ecuador. And, um, there's various chroniclers who talk about this. And these are the chroniclers

• 57:08Speaker 03

  who chronicle the, the history of the conquest of Peru, you know, the pisaro and the, and the conquistadors who defeated the Inca. And, and...

• 57:19Speaker 03

  They say that, you know, there was a race of giants, that there's giants came up, the natives told the conquistadors and the chroniclers that, according to legend, giants came over the sea on large reed boats. And these giants were, they were very, very large, and they had, they had red hair, and some of them were naked and some of them were dressed in, in, in very primitive clothing. And they landed on the shores of Santa Elena, one of the places they landed, and they began to terrorize the local population. The indigenous people hated them because they were, they were eating all of the food. I mean, they, they, the natives said that they consumed 50 times the, the amount of

• 58:03Speaker 03

  food as a, as a regular sized person. And, and so the natives hated them. They said that the giants built these deep wells, they dug these really deep wells, which you could still see. The conquistadors said, "We could still see them today." They built these houses with very large blocks and huge beams of wood, which were still there when the conquistadors were writing about this in the, in the 16th and, or 17th and 18th centuries. And, and according to legend, these giants, they were sodomites, and they didn't have any women with them, and they were basically struck down by God. And the natives have that and other legends regarding giants being destroyed by God in various ways.

• 58:46Speaker 03

  But it turns out that Santa Elena is, it's one of the, the most important sites for megafauna bones. And there's tons of megafauna, especially giant sloths. So you have lots of megafauna bones in Santa Elena. And I have no doubt that the, the, the natives and the people living during that time in the aftermath of the conquest of, of the Inca Empire, thought that those were the bones of giants.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Right, because there was no giant sloth alive at that time.

• 59:25Speaker 03

  Exactly. And, and, and in some of the accounts, you can see where they're saying, and the giants, and, and, you know, "We uncovered a giant that was, had a deformed body." And I thought, "Oh, that's probably a, it's probably a giant sloth or something, right?" So yeah, there's a lot of that unquestionably. You have to be very careful as a researcher. And in the beginning, I, when I, when I, I, this was years ago when I first started out researching this stuff, I made the mistake of, of, of just taking that story literally and believing, "Oh yeah, they were digging up bones of giants in Santa Elena," until I realized that that is like, one of the best places in the world to find megafauna bones. So obviously, you have to concede to the facts of reality, they're digging up megafauna there.

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  However, however, there are other stories that come from the chronicles in Peru, where there's no way they're talking about megafauna. And these stories come from the same chroniclers who, from which we derive, from the same text from which we derive the history of the conquest of Peru, the same guys. The guys like Bernabe Kobo, and Antonio de la Calancha, and Pedro Sisera de León, all of the, you know, the famous chroniclers. And there's one case in particular I find very intriguing. There's lots of them. By the way, when I was in, I was, I lived in Peru for 10 years at some point, and, and then later on I went back to Peru and doing various investigations when I was looking into this, making documentaries about giants.

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  And when I was in Peru, I was in Puno, some years ago, probably back in 2015, 2016, I was in Puno, and I met with an archaeologist in Puno. His name was Edmundo de la Vega, very well-known archaeologist. And I asked him, "Hey, are there any accounts of giants in the historical records here?" And he said, "Yeah, I think there's a, there's a couple of accounts of giants." And I said, "Okay." He said, "I don't think there's many, but I think there's a couple." "Okay." Well, the next morning, he comes walking into my hotel, in the lobby, and he's got a big smile on his face, and he hands me a disc. And he said, "I went, after we talked, I went into the archives, they have access to

• 1:01:35Speaker 03

  the digital archives, and I did a word search to try and see if I could find some of these accounts of giants." He said, "I cannot believe how many references to giants there are in the chronicles." And he handed me the disc, and I, I opened the files, and indeed, there were many. Now, some of them were in reference to Santa Elena, but some of them were much more remarkable. For example, I'll give you one example here. There was a, a Jesuit priest named Pablo Jose Ariaga, who was going around Peru, and he wrote a book called The Extirpation of Idolatry in Peru. I think it was 1602.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  And he's, he's going around Peru with the, what are called, which were called the visitadores, who were the, these were officials, there were clergymen that were dispatched to Peru, who were extirpating idolatry. These were the, they were very fair, these people, these visitadores, these official idolatry hunters, basically, because they were brutal. And what they would do is they would go with the priests into the villages, they would find out what are the natives worshiping, and then they would destroy it, and then force-convert the populate, the population. And they, they chronicled everything, they, they, everything they found, because they had to, this was an official assignment, right?

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  So they chronicle everything that they find. This village, they're going to this village, they're worshiping this, we, we, we broke it into pieces, or we burned it in the fire, and these are official records. And among these records, and this is, this comes from, as I said, Pablo Jose Ariaga, but also later on Antonio de la Calancha, who is an Augustinian monk. It enlarges the story, he expands on the story using other documents, including, including Ariaga's version. And the story goes that Ariaga and the visitadores, they went into the village, and they were led, they inquired, "What are, what are you worshiping? Where are your gods?"

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  And the indigenous people of Peru, they, they worshiped wacas. And the waca could be anything, it could be an idol, it could be a mountain, it could be a hill, it was just wacas. Even to this day, they call them wacas. And so they inquired, "Where are your wacas?" And they led them to the other side of the village, where there was a large cave. And they go into the cave. And when they went in there, they, they record that there were many dead Gentiles, and among them were two giants dressed in kumbi, and they were enshrined. Now, that's very interesting.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  Kumbi?

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  Kumbi is a very fine fabric that is, it was, it was used exclusively by the Inca nobility. In fact, it was illegal for any, anyone else to wear kumbi. Only the Inca nobility could wear kumbi. It's very fine fabric, so it's very ceremonial, and it belongs by law to the noble class. So these indigenous people, they can't wear kumbi, but yet they dressed these two, and, and it said that the bodies were, were well-preserved, almost like mummified. They dressed these two giants in kumbi, and they were enshrined in this tomb. And so when they realized that they were worshiping these giants, these dead giants, and the

• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  natives told them that these were their ancestors, these were their progenitors, that's what they told the, the visitadores of idolatry. They took the bodies out of the tomb, and they burned them in the village. Now, that's very interesting to me, because you have two bodies, not just skeletal remains, bodies of giants, decayed with time, but still quite well-preserved, dressed in kumbi. This doesn't sound like a giant sloth to me. This doesn't sound like a mastodon. This is something else. And it corresponds to all the legends among the natives there in Peru regarding the existence

• 1:05:50Speaker 03

  of giants who were their progenitors. So those are just, those are some historical details, some historical counts that I find very intriguing.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Well, there's so many of them, that's what's weird. And it's, it's also this very bizarre desire that people have of destroying things from the past.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  We find that with, I mean, the Taliban did that, you know?

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  There's, there's a bunch of different, incredible archaeological sites that were destroyed by past civilizations. We, we just talked the other day about the Kailasa temple in India, about how they tried to destroy that for a couple of years. They sent a thousand people, they could barely put a dent in it.

• 1:06:32Speaker 03

  Who was trying to destroy that?

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  Oh, who was it, Jamie? Do we remember? Some guy that didn't like it? I don't know. Some, some...

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Who they they came upon this temple that they they didn't like that someone else had built it and someone else owned it and someone else had constructed it. You know, the Kailasa Temple that was built entirely out of stone?

• 1:06:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, the one that was built like literally carved into the ground?

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  Into the side of the mountain.

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  Emperor, say that name. You could say it. You're really good with words.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  Mughal.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  What's what's his name?

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  Looks like Mughal to me. I've never heard of him before.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  What's the second word? Orangzeb?

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  Orangzeb?

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  Orangzeb.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  Historical figure widely reported to have ordered the destruction of the Kailasa Temple. In 1682, however, his mission failed because the monolithic temple was carved top down from a single solid volcanic rock. His army could only disfigure some sculptures before giving up.

• 1:07:27Speaker 03

  Oh, this was in 1682?

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. But it's just wild that people have always had this inclination to destroy old fascinating things.

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right. Especially you find this, what's really sad is in Central America among the Aztec, the Maya, there were many codexes of the Aztec and the Maya that were intentionally destroyed by by by the Catholic Church, by various agents of the Catholic Church who intentionally destroyed these codexes. Could you imagine the information that was stored in those things?

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  Well, how about the Library of Alexandria?

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  I mean, who knows what was in there?

• 1:08:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  And they burnt that several times.

• 1:08:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  It's um, there's the historical accounts in North America are are interesting because there's actual newspaper stories from, God, was it like, I believe it's the 1800s? What, do you do you know what I'm talking about?

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. There are all kinds of newspaper stories about giants in the 1800s.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  Newspaper stories about giant skeletons that have been discovered and excavated.

• 1:08:28Speaker 03

  Yes, from the mid 1800s to the early 1900s.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  And somehow or another, they all relate to the Smithsonian.

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  Most of them are associated with the mounds and the mound builders. There were thousands of mounds east of the Mississippi. I mean, people don't realize how many of these mounds there were. And these are, you know, the monumental mounds and earthworks. Some of them still stand today. Not all of them are burial mounds. You have different kinds of mounds. Some of them are effigies, some of them are platform mounds, but many of them are burial mounds. And many of them contain contain very prosaic things like the bones of native people. But some of them were said to have contained some very, very interesting artifacts. And among those artifacts were the bones of giants, according to the newspaper reports. Now.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  See if you can find.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  There's a lot of them from the 1800s.

• 1:09:20Speaker 05

  Giant over 10 feet high, 1872.

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, especially in the in the latter part of the 1800s.

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  How tall was it, Jimmy?

• 1:09:27Speaker 05

  I mean, it's just, it's a.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  Giant over 10 feet high, according to Lewis and Richard Collins' history, History of Kentucky.

• 1:09:36Speaker 03

  Now, the the contention is, of course, that that these are wildly exaggerated and that the newspapers were engaging in in hyperbole. And that's true to some extent. I have no problem with that.

• 1:09:48Speaker 05

  They did have hoaxes. I've brought this up.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Some of them were hoaxes.

• 1:09:51Speaker 05

  A whole lot of hoaxes.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  Sure, some of them were hoaxes and they and then, you know, these were the periodicals in the United States at the time were very competitive.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  What is that photo? Is that bullshit? That far-left photo?

• 1:10:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  Now, now, that far-left one, that one was actually, that's a disputed one. Some people believe that that one is in fact was proven a hoax. Other people think there might be a conspiracy that in fact it wasn't a hoax because it was actually on display for a while. I don't, I don't know. I don't think there's any way to know, but so many articles during that time were discussing these astounding discoveries of the bones of giants and mounds. In fact, I don't know if you're aware, but even it appears that even Abraham Lincoln references this in some lecture notes. He was waxing poetically in some lecture notes about Niagara Falls. And he says, in those notes, you can still read them today, you can pull them up and

• 1:10:45Speaker 03

  read them now, there, he says, "The the eyes of that extinct species of giants whose bones fill the mounds of America have gazed upon Niagara as ours do now." Those are from Lincoln's lecture notes.

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  I believe it's 1845, the date of those notes.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  Oh, I gotta read that.

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  Now, now, here's the contention, okay? This is interesting because here's the contention.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  The contention is that he was talking about mastodons and and mammoths, megafauna.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  That's what people say because he does mention mastodon and and the mammoth later on in in the in the lecture, in the speech. However, what they won't tell you is before he mentions that, he's talking, he's in a biblical context. And he's talking about, he references Jesus and Moses and Adam, right before he references the giants, whose bones are found in the mounds of America. See?

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  So, "The eyes of that species of extinct giants whose bones fill the mounds of America have gazed upon Niagara as ours do now, contemporary with the whole race of men. Older than the first man, Niagara is strong and fresh to today as 10,000 years ago. The mammoth and mastodon, now so long dead, that fragments of their monstrous bones alone testify that they ever lived have gazed upon, gazed on Niagara in that long, long time, never still, for a single moment, never dried, never froze, never slept, never rested." That seems like he's talking about mastodons.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  Well, it very well, he very well could be.

• 1:12:24Speaker 05

  He's talking about the thousands of miles of water that they all would have seen.

• 1:12:28Speaker 03

  Well, he could be talking about mastodons and mammoths, but look what he references before he gets to the giants. Christ and Moses.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Where's that?

• 1:12:36Speaker 03

  And Adam.

• 1:12:37Speaker 05

  He says, "There's still more. It calls up an indefinite past when Columbus first sought this continent, when Christ suffered on the cross, and Moses led Israel through the Red Sea, nay, even when Adam was made." And he's talking in a, you know.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  So here he's in biblical context.

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  "First came from the hand of his maker, then as now Niagara was roaring here. The eyes of that species of extinct giants whose bones fill the mounds of America." That's what's weird.

• 1:13:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, now, listen.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  The bones fill the mounds of America.

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  So here's the question. Did, were the mounds of America filled with the bones of mastodons and and giant sloths?

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:13:13Speaker 03

  No, they weren't. Now, there have been some fragments of bones from mammoths and mastodons found in the mounds. That's true. They were, they look to be ritual pieces that people were buried with, that were used for ceremonial purposes or something like that. Maybe some of them were carved ornately. But like, people weren't digging up the skeletons of giant sloths and mastodons and mammoths in the mounds routinely. That was, it was very rare.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Right, but it seems like if you found dead giants in the mounds, that it would be more specific. You would talk about it more than just that.

• 1:13:48Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  I don't know either.

• 1:13:50Speaker 03

  The reference is ambiguous. So, we're left to wonder, is he talking about dead giants in the biblical context, which he's clearly in a biblical context before he gets it? Or is he talking about mastodons?

• 1:14:03Speaker 02

  And the issue is that there are giants in the Bible.

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  And also that when he wrote, when he penned this, these lecture notes, there were newspaper articles circulating in the United States announcing the discovery of the bones of giants in the mounds.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

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• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  So, it's a, it's a, it's, it's up for debate. I don't know the answer.

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  There's gotta be somebody who works at the Smithsonian that is sick of this.

• 1:16:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  There's gotta be someone.

• 1:16:35Speaker 03

  We need that guy.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  There's gotta be some whistleblower that just take your fucking camera phone, get down there and film something, man. It just, it seems like if there really are some remnants of some of these things. And the thing that's interesting is, you know, what is the museum that John Reeves has issue with?

• 1:17:03Speaker 05

  The National American History Museum, I think. I don't, I know it's in Manhattan, I don't, I don't.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  So my friend John Reeves, are you aware of him? He owns the the Boneyard in Alaska?

• 1:17:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  Okay. So this is area of a lot. John's a miner and he Museum of Natural History. So he's a miner and he bought this land in Alaska and they're doing gold mining and they're blasting into the permafrost with hoses. And they have found an enormous amount of mammoths,

• 1:17:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  um, cave bears, animals that weren't even supposed to be living in Alaska at the time. So now they have to like reformulate their idea of what the population of this, the this, these lands were at this time. But also a layer of like dark carbon that indicates there's there was some sort of an event. All of this is sub 10,000 years ago. So he's finding, I mean, he has warehouses. And this is like fully, go to the Boneyard Instagram, please. He he has warehouses of this stuff that he's pulled out of the ground. He won't let anyone take it because the Museum of Natural History has some of this stuff from the previous owners.

• 1:18:21Speaker 02

  They have tons of it and they would not release it to him, even though it's his property. So this is, I mean, he's finding enormous mastodon skeletons, mammoth tusks. I mean, they find tons of them, tons. I mean, he has warehouses. He built a scientific research facility there. And he's like, people can come here and study it, but I'm not letting any. Post Malone was there, shout out to Post. Um, mastodon teeth and bones. He actually gave me this. This is a mammoth tooth that they take some of these things and they they carve artwork into him.

• 1:18:57Speaker 03

  That is very cool.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  The artwork is kind of fucked. It's kind of weird that they do that because it's.

• 1:19:02Speaker 03

  But this is a ma- this is like a petrified mastodon tooth?

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  A molar, rather.

• 1:19:07Speaker 03

  Wow, that is really cool.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, amazing. Yeah, so this is all from his property.

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  So I mean. But why? Why is there such a distribution of megafauna bones there?

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  His belief is that there was some sort of a mass extinction event that happened, whatever year it was, you know, that that coincides with the Younger Dryas impact theory. And he and when.

• 1:19:32Speaker 03

  Circa 11,000 B.C.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  And when he's had some of these things tested and dated, they do, they're they're post, they're around this time. And he thinks that there was some sort of a mass extinction event and the flooding led them all to be washed away into this one very particular area. Because it's a deep, a deep concentration of these bones. Too many that seem to have died around the same time and all preserved. So it seems like because they're preserved in the permafrost that this is something that happened with this enormous event. The bodies are washed down into this one area and because of the landscape, because the contours of the land, they they they're collected into this one area.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  And it's not a big place. I think it's four to six acres that he's pulling most of these things out of. And there's several other places that he's now finding things in as well.

• 1:20:24Speaker 03

  You know, I find really fascinating are the the specimens that they find of mammoth and mastodon that are frozen solid with chewing food.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, with broken legs sometimes.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  Where it's like there's some sort of an impact, some massive shock wave that kills them all instantly.

• 1:20:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:43Speaker 03

  Instantly freezes them.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:45Speaker 03

  And I think one of the hypotheses that I've heard is that, you know, you had referencing the Younger Dryas impact event. You had a potentially a comet or comets that were ripping through the atmosphere at such high rates of speed that they were pulling in the vacuum of space, that that sub zero temperature air and like blasting it down on the earth.

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:21:06Speaker 03

  And that that air was was so cold, it would instantly freeze whatever was in its path. You know, as these comets are breaking through the atmosphere. I don't know if that's true, but it's it's very difficult to explain how you can, how you can flash freeze something like that.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:20Speaker 03

  And then in other parts of the earth, you have apparent biomass burning. So you have you have mastodons over here freezing, right? Solid. You have other megafauna over here that were clearly swept up in a flood. You have other megafauna and other kinds of extinct plants and stuff that have evidence of burning biomass burning. So it's like some sort of um, absolutely unimaginable cataclysm.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:21:46Speaker 03

  That that struck planet earth at some time circa 11,000 B.C.

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  And it seems like there's a lot of physical evidence in terms of iridium and soil samples. And it seemed it's very common in space, very rare on earth, layers of iridium. And then the dark carbon, the layers of burnt material. It seems there was incredible fires. So we were probably hit by asteroids. They also find that nuclear glass, the same stuff that they found during the Trinity explosion.

• 1:22:14Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  They find little particles of that everywhere that seems to indicate a huge impact that happened. And he, you know, this is what Randall Carlson also believes, the same timeline, was what caused the melting of the ice layer over North America and created the Great Lakes.

• 1:22:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:31Speaker 02

  And caused the massive flooding and the the the land features that you see from space. If you look down from satellite imagery, it clearly looks like there was just immense amounts of water that washed over the land.

• 1:22:44Speaker 03

  Mm hmm. Yeah, and yeah, Randall talks a lot about the the the the impact of those comets on the ice sheets. The Laurentide Ice Sheet, for example, two miles thick.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:54Speaker 03

  What happens when you slam a comet into a two mile thick ice sheet?

• 1:22:58Speaker 02

  Right. A comet the size of a city.

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, you you superheat it. Then you have all the ejecta coming off of it.

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:23:04Speaker 03

  And and landing in force and igniting the forest.

• 1:23:07Speaker 02

  And of course, if you have advanced civilizations at the time, which I believe they did, you have a mass extinction event.

• 1:23:14Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, everything gets annihilated.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  Nothing left. There's a few people survive somewhere in the world and it takes thousands of years for them to reinvent civilization.

• 1:23:22Speaker 03

  Especially the civilizations living on the in the coastal areas or on the banks of rivers, where a lot of civilizations are.

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:28Speaker 03

  They're gone.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:29Speaker 03

  I mean, they're gone.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  They're gone. And not only that, the the level of the ocean rises significantly. And that's all documented fact, historically accepted. Everyone, you know, geologists, archaeologists, everyone accepts that, that this is something that happened. And then that the ice sheets in North America were a mile, two miles high, three quarters of the entire continent covered with ice.

• 1:23:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's wild.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  Recently, in terms of like the earth, when you're you're going back 11,000, 12,000 years ago, that's not a long time ago. And this whole thing covered in ice. And then you also have the almost instantaneous extinction of 65% of all North American megafauna, which is kind of crazy.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  Kind of crazy. Like, what caused that?

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, which some anthropologists still maintain today that that that's because the the indigenous people killed them.

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:24:21Speaker 03

  They hunted them into extinction.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  That's cute.

• 1:24:23Speaker 03

  It's absolutely absurd.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  With atalatos.

• 1:24:25Speaker 03

  It's absolutely absurd.

• 1:24:27Speaker 02

  Spears and atalatos. I mean, we don't even know if they had bows and arrows yet.

• 1:24:31Speaker 03

  Right. It's just.

• 1:24:32Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 1:24:33Speaker 03

  Clearly something catastrophic.

• 1:24:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:36Speaker 03

  Happened in the in the relatively recent past.

• 1:24:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:24:39Speaker 03

  And and this is, as I said, it's the same with giants. You know, you have this ubiquitous testimony about giants. Well, concurrent with that, you have this ubiquitous testimony about cataclysm.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  Have you seen the work that there's this Italian guy? I'll send you the article, Jamie. There's this Italian guy that is proposing that the, um, I'll send it to you, Jamie, that there's a way of measuring the erosion on the outside of the pyramids that he believes indicates they are at least 10,000 years older than we believe so far. I'll send this to you, Jamie. Here, um, but this is, you know, obviously disputed.

• 1:25:25Speaker 03

  But they're 10,000 years older.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  Super controversial, at least. He's he's talking about the erosion on the granite and that there's, by studying erosion and by studying the timeline of erosion. And this is something that Ben van Kirkwerk has talked about. When you look at the older, uh, non updated versions of some of the sites in Egypt, where it's clear that there was original stone and then there was stone that was built on top of that.

• 1:25:55Speaker 05

  That shows some better.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  Okay, here's, so here's the article. So the the heading of the article, please? So it says, could the Great Pyramid be far older than we thought? A new study says yes. And if you go to it down there, what he's saying is, so this is from January of 2026? Go up a little bit, right there, make it bigger. A paper released in January 2026, Italian engineer Alberto Donini presents an unconventional dating approach known as the relative erosion method, which he argues may challenge the long accepted chronology placing the construction of the Pyramid of Khufu around 2,560 B.C. According to Donini's calculations, erosion patterns at the pyramid's base could suggest a construction date tens of thousands of years earlier,

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  potentially as far back as the late Paleolithic period. The claim, if substantiated, would have far reaching implications for the history of ancient Egypt and early civilization, yet it also raises immediate questions about methodology assumptions and how such results could be interpreted within archaeological science. Well, I don't think archaeology is a science. I I just, I think what archaeology is, is they're looking at stuff and they're guessing and they're using science. And then they're also, they have timelines that they establish that they're very reluctant to let go of.

• 1:27:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  And we've seen this with the dating of Gobekli Tepe. We've seen this with the erosion around the the Temple of the Sphinx. They're very reluctant.

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  While simultaneously disregarding the ubiquitous testimony of our ancient antecedents, who say that their ancestors were far greater than them.

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  Look at this right here. Other points yield far higher values. Several measurements suggest erosion equivalent to 20,000 to more than 40,000 years of exposure, while the arithmetic mean of all 12 points produces a result of approximately 24,900 years before present, corresponding to roughly 22,900 B.C. I mean, holy shit, if that's accurate.

• 1:27:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  And then you have also Filippo Biondi's work, where they're looking, the radiotomography below the pyramids and they have these structures that go 1.2 kilometers down into the earth.

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. Did you see my, uh, I did an interview on, um, I made an appearance on Pierce Morgan's show. And Pierce had on, uh, Hawaizawas. And I didn't know that I was gonna be interacting with Hawaizawas.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  Zahi.

• 1:28:25Speaker 03

  Or Za- sorry.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  Zahi was.

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  Zahi Hawas. The other way around. I didn't know that, uh, I was gonna be interacting with him. I was just told that they wanted me to come on and talk about pyramids and stuff. But then.

• 1:28:37Speaker 02

  Pierce loves a good scramble.

• 1:28:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:39Speaker 02

  He loves, he loves a squabble.

• 1:28:41Speaker 03

  So, so he set me up, like, here's your opportunity to say whatever you want. You know, it was me and Jimmy Corsetti and some other people. Here's your opportunity to ask Zahi whatever you want. And I'm thinking to myself, I don't, I don't really have anything to ask this guy. But then it occurred to me. I actually have, me and my team are in possession of some state of the art, ground penetrating radar technology that we used to great effect in Peru. And so I'm thinking about this discovery, this alleged, these alleged, uh, megastructures under the pyramids. And I'm thinking, you know, it wouldn't be that difficult. You don't have to, you don't have to detect them all the way down. You just have to verify that there's something there, right? And so I posited this to Zahi.

• 1:29:24Speaker 03

  And, you know, I told him, look, I've got this equipment. Would you facilitate us coming down there? And, and, and it's, it's, uh, it operates off of a drone platform. So you don't, you don't have to drag it. It's, it's, uh, fly, you can fly it around the, the pyramid. You don't have to touch the pyramid. You just fly it in the vicinity of the pyramids. And see if you can detect something. I mean, uh, there's, there's no, there's, you know, you, you would do no injury to any sort of, any artifacts there. And he seemed like he was very open to the idea, you know, on camera and said that, basically told Pierce, get your people in contact with him so that, you know, give him my information so I can reach out to him. Of course, that never happened.

• 1:30:06Speaker 03

  So it would not be that difficult to verify that. And that's why I'm wondering why, you don't have to dig.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  Right. Why wouldn't you want as much exploration?

• 1:30:16Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  The most spectacular site.

• 1:30:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  That human beings have ever erected on the face of the earth that has a very controversial timeline.

• 1:30:25Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  I mean, even the conventional timeline's super controversial because like, how the fuck did they do it?

• 1:30:30Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  Even if you just accept that it's 2,500 B.C. Okay, great. How? I mean, I, I mean, I don't know why it being older is more controversial because it's still the same people, the same, it's human beings that lived a long time ago. That's all we're talking about.

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  But why are they sticking to 2,500 B.C.? It's because that, they've always said that they know. They've always said with great certainty and, and from a position of authority, that this is what we know. We know Kufu did this. We know this guy did this. But you don't really know. And there's also incredible amount of evidence that these guys wrote their name on everything. When they were in power, they liked to put their names on everything.

• 1:31:14Speaker 03

  Or re-carve the head of the Sphinx.

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, that's definitely true.

• 1:31:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:17Speaker 02

  It's definitely different. There's some controversy about that as well because there's layers of stone that have different gradients, like different hardness. And there are different types of stone. And the face, there, what, the, the controversy is that the face is like a harder stone and it wouldn't erode as quickly. Problem with that is like, the stuff that's eroded for a long period in history was covered in sand.

• 1:31:41Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  And we know that for a fact. So there was no erosion going on during that period of time, but yet it's massively more eroded than the face.

• 1:31:49Speaker 03

  Well, I think that one of the fundamental problems that we have as west, as modern Westerners looking at this stuff, is we have an inversion of the timeline of history. When we look at the timeline of history, we generally view our antecedents as like cavemen. That these are, are very ignorant people. They're basically, you know, chimpanzees with, with better brains. And as we progress through the timeline of history, we're becoming increasingly more intelligent, increasingly more incapable of building and, and of, of building these monuments and technology and so forth. So we see ourselves as the pinnacle of the human species. Like, we're the smartest. We're the greatest. That's not the way that the ancients viewed the antediluvian world.

• 1:32:34Speaker 03

  That's not the way that they viewed their, their antecedents. They see the, for them, it was the inverse. For them, they were always trying to recover the glory of the people that had come before them. The majesty of the civilization that had come before them. Uh, so when they look back down the timeline of history, they're the dummies. And the further you go back, the more extraordinary people are.

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  Cause they were closer to it, right? And they all have a, they all have, uh, a myth of the flood.

• 1:33:06Speaker 03

  Yes, and of the antediluvian world in general.

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  And they, they lived in a timeline that was closer to that and more accepted. Because they probably had a knowledge, an understanding, at least the earliest ones, that they didn't make this. And so they probably passed that down. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't need to change? Your phone. The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan. Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month.

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• 1:35:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, they, I think they inherited traditions from their ancestors about these things. Um, you know, I mean, you have, you have this, this idea of a golden age, uh, among the ancients. The golden age, meaning there was a time on earth, the, the Greeks coined that particular phrase, the golden age. The Egyptians, the ancient Egyptians called it zeptepi, the first time. There was a time on earth when the gods descended to the earth and cohabited with human species. And to some extent, co-mingled with the human species. And that it was during this time that, that knowledge was transferred and that great cities were built. This is, of course, this is where the myth of Atlantis falls into this category.

• 1:36:23Speaker 03

  And, and then their world was suddenly and catastrophically destroyed. And what we've been doing since that destruction, in the mind of the ancients, what they've been doing since that destruction was attempting to rebuild, to rediscover the lost knowledge from that age, to recover it and to try and, try and emulate their, their superior ancestors. That's what you see everywhere, everywhere around the world. Doesn't matter if you're in Egypt or if you're in Peru, you see the same sort of thing. Um, the same thing applies, by the way, for the megaliths in Peru. I don't know if you've, have you been to Peru?

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:37:05Speaker 03

  Some of the most astounding megaliths that you'll see anywhere in the world. I referenced earlier the walls of Sacsayhuamán, absolutely phenomenal cyclopean architecture. And of course, the construction of those, of those walls is attributed to the Inca. So if you ask archaeologists in Peru who built Sacsayhuamán, who built Machu Picchu, who built Ojantitambo, it's always gonna be the same answer. The Inca. The Inca built it. Now, the problem is, there's no record of the Inca building those walls. And if you ask the, the, the ancient Quechua people, uh, if you ask the, actually the Quechua people, the, the Quechua people who continue in their ancient traditions, the ones who

• 1:37:50Speaker 03

  are there today, and they still wear their, um, their typical vestments and, and they still speak Quechua. If you talk to them and you ask them, who built the walls of Sacsayhuamán? Specifically Sacsayhuamán, they'll tell you a race of giants. This goes back to those, you know, our progenitors, the giants. The giants built Sacsayhuamán. If you go up to, um, if you go up to, to Titicaca, Lake Titicaca, and you, you ask the Aymata people, who built Tiwanaku? Which is on the other side of Lake Titicaca in Bolivia. Who built those megalithic edifices? The giants, our progenitors. That's what they'll tell you. So, and I don't necessarily think that giants built all this stuff.

• 1:38:35Speaker 03

  I don't necessarily think that at all. I just think that there's, everyone is acknowledging that, that something extraordinary happened in the past. That, that the, our antecedents were much more impressive than we've given them credit for. I mean, our antediluvian antecedents. And that, um, that in many cases, like you said, there's no inscriptions on megalithic stuff anywhere. You go to Machu, Machu Picchu, and it's apparent that in Sacsayhuamán, Machu Picchu, Ojantitambo, and other places in Peru, it's apparent that the Inca certainly built on top. And they took advantage of these megalithic foundations, right? Anyone would. I mean, if you're gonna build an edifice, you would, you would use the superior foundations

• 1:39:19Speaker 03

  here, massive stones, and you'd build on top. And you try, you try to emulate that style of building because it's anti-seismic for one thing. So in Machu Picchu, it's evident to me, and I think anybody who walks, walks around that complex.

• 1:39:35Speaker 03

  You can see, and we have to keep in mind that much of Machu Picchu today is a reconstruction. It's an archaeological reconstruction, except for the foundations. We have pictures from Hiram Bingham. Original pictures in black and white of what Machu Picchu looked like when he discovered it. Accidentally. And what's there? The megalithic foundations are there. That's what's there. The megalithic foundations. And, and you see, and the Inca built on top of those foundations. And that's what a lot of the archaeological reconstruction today reflects. So, if you walk around in Machu Picchu, I remember, I've been there several times filming and doing different things. And I remember one time I was, I was with my colleague Anselm P. Romblin.

• 1:40:16Speaker 03

  We had a, we had a, a guide with us and, um, he was an older gentleman, very, very knowledgeable. And, um, he was one of their official guides in Machu Picchu. And we're walking around and he's telling us different things about the Inca and how they did certain things. And certainly the Inca built a lot up there. There's no question about it. Inca were impressive. I'm not taking anything away from the Inca. But, if you, you look at some of the edifices at Machu Picchu, you can see these magnificent megalithic foundations. Big stones, polygonal, fit together so tightly you couldn't pass a butter knife between the joints. And then you have, on top, what sometimes people describe as Inca slop, on top. Where it's like they kind of, they're kind of trying to match the style of below, but it's, it's not as precise. It's not as fine.

• 1:41:01Speaker 03

  And you can see the clear delineation, clear delineation between the megalithic and then what the Inca are doing. And then also the archaeological reconstruction. And I remember asking this guide of ours. We, I pointed across the courtyard to some, this beautiful, this exquisite polygonal foundational wall. With just sort of crude Inca stuff on top. And I said, "Why are there two different styles here? Why do you see this, this, these large megalithic blocks fit together so precisely? And then you have this other style?" And, you know, keeping in mind the archaeological reconstruction, but there was, there was enough of this site there that they could model what they did based on what the Inca had done.

• 1:41:46Speaker 03

  And he said, "Because they liked the way it looked." That was the answer. "They liked the way it looked." And I said, "You, you can't really believe that." I mean, you're not an idiot, right? They didn't do that because they liked the way it looked. The reason why there's an inferior mode of building on top of those megalithic foundations is because they didn't know how to do that. They did the best they could. And they were very good, right? Attempting to adopt the cyclopean style. They were good, the Inca. But, the only reason you would do that, the only reason you would put inferior architecture on top of superior foundations is because you don't know how to do that.

• 1:42:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it's also the, just the sheer size of these blocks. It, it just gives you so many questions. Because it's, it's not like you could recreate that with whatever the Inca had. That's what's confusing. In order to move those stones into position and then put them and construct them in a way that it appears like they've been melted into place.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  You're, you're, like, how? How are you moving them? How are you placing them? What do you use?

• 1:42:59Speaker 03

  You should go to Ollantaytambo. Okay, so, you go to Ollantaytambo, which is in between Cusco and Machu Picchu. You have to go to Ollantaytambo to get on the train to go up to Machu Picchu. It's the only way to get there. And, Ollantaytambo has some of the most exquisite megalithic architecture on planet Earth. It is so beautiful, the way that they were able to, and it's, it's large megalithic blocks. And there's two different styles represented there. You have the polygonal, like at the walls of Sacaywaman in Peru. And then you have the interlocking blocks, like at Tiwanaku. Both of those styles are there. And, and there's this one spot at, at Ollantaytambo that I love to take people to. Because you're going up the stairs and, and the wall curves.

• 1:43:43Speaker 03

  As you're going up the stairs, the wall curves. Now, if you and I were building a wall, today, even if we were like the best, we were the best masons in the world and we're building a wall for, I don't know, for, for some billionaire in his house. We would, we would interlock the blocks in the corner, like everyone does, everywhere, right? Or if it's cement, you could take cement, because that cement is pliable and you could make whatever shape you want. But if it's blocks, you're going to interlock the blocks into that corner or do something like that. You know what they did at Ollantaytambo? They, they curved the stone into the wall. They curved the stone, so they took the stone.

• 1:44:19Speaker 02

  Is there images of that that we could look at right now?

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could pull up stones like that. And, and they, they cut the stone so that it curved into the corner. Like, who would do that? That is so intricate. That is so difficult.

• 1:44:30Speaker 02

  And by what technology?

• 1:44:32Speaker 03

  By what technology? But here's the interesting thing. You find that same, the same fingerprints of these builders all over the world. You find the same thing in, in Egypt. They curved stones. Some of those stones are curved into the corners. And other places where there's megalithic constructions. I mean, these guys, there is a, there is like a ubiquitous knowledge of masonry in the world. The fingerprint is everywhere, everywhere you go. And it's interesting, because one of the things I was trying to, trying to, to convince this, this guide of ours at Machu Picchu this one time of was, "Look, here's a problem. You guys come over to Machu Picchu."

• 1:45:11Speaker 02

  So here it is?

• 1:45:11Speaker 03

  So, yeah, that's, that's Sacaywaman.

• 1:45:14Speaker 05

  Is that what you're talking about, though?

• 1:45:15Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:45:15Speaker 05

  Curved stone?

• 1:45:16Speaker 03

  No, I'm talking about a stone that's curved. See that, i- i- there, where it says "Inca stonework"?

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  Uh, in the middle.

• 1:45:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's Sacaywaman. They'll take a, a large stone, that one looks like it's curved too in the wall, but that's not a very large stone. Sacaywaman will take a large stone and they'll curve it into the wall. It's, I don't see Sacaywaman in any of those. You have to type, I'm, I'm sorry, not Sacaywaman, Ollantaytambo. Ollantaytambo.

• 1:45:39Speaker 02

  How do you spell it?

• 1:45:40Speaker 03

  O-L-L-A-N-T, O-L-L-A-N-T, A-Y. T-A-M-B-O.

• 1:45:48Speaker 02

  O-L-L.

• 1:45:48Speaker 03

  O-L-L, A-N-T. A-Y. A-Y. T-A-M-B-O.

• 1:45:58Speaker 05

  Never gonna guess that.

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:45:59Speaker 03

  That's, that's, uh, Ollantaytambo. And I'm looking for that curved, uh...

• 1:46:04Speaker 02

  What is the nubs? What are the nubs?

• 1:46:08Speaker 03

  I don't know. There's another fingerprint of this architecture. Everywhere. No one really knows. I mean, there's a lot of interesting theories out there, but I think at the end of the day, nobody has any idea what the heck those nubs are.

• 1:46:19Speaker 02

  Those things are so spectacular. Look at that construction.

• 1:46:22Speaker 03

  Look at the walls, look at the, look at the wall right there at Ollantaytambo.

• 1:46:26Speaker 02

  You make that larger, please?

• 1:46:27Speaker 03

  Look how exquisite that is.

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  That's nuts.

• 1:46:29Speaker 03

  I mean, it is just absolutely astonishing.

• 1:46:32Speaker 02

  And the weight. The weight of these things. And the fact that they're, they're carved and placed in a way that would absorb the energy of earthquakes.

• 1:46:42Speaker 03

  Yes. They're anti-seismic.

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:45Speaker 03

  They're anti-seismic. That's why they do it that way.

• 1:46:47Speaker 02

  Which is incredible technology.

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  Think about this, okay? So, you are, you are with Francisco Pizarro. You're a conquistador. In the fifteen, fifteen thirty-three, or fifteen thirty-two, or fifteen thirty-four, I can't remember exactly when he landed. And you're walking through Peru. And you, you, you see this. You see this kind of architecture as you're conquering Peru. You overthrow the Inca. And then you go to build, which they did, they overthrew the Inca. Capital city of Cusco, they go to build their cathedrals. They built lots of cathedrals and palaces for themselves, right? So you have the Inca palaces and cathedrals. They took the blocks from Sacaywaman.

• 1:47:32Speaker 03

  They took the upper layer blocks and they used them to build their cathedral. Okay, there's a couple cathedrals downtown Cusco that were built with the blocks from Sacaywaman. They didn't build it like that. They didn't build their cathedrals like that. They took those blocks and they just put them together with mortar like they do in Europe. So here's a question that I always ask people who think that, you know, the Inca were, were doing that. If you were an architect at that time, why in the world wouldn't you have forced the Inca to teach you that style? So that you could build your cathedral? I mean, you would be the greatest architect in the world, right?

• 1:48:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:48:06Speaker 03

  You could build, you could build the most magnificent cathedrals in the world in the cyclopean style. If you understood how they did it. So if the Inca were the ones who built it, why didn't they force the Inca to teach them how to build in this style?

• 1:48:20Speaker 02

  Just look at, just look at that. That is so crazy.

• 1:48:23Speaker 05

  That's clearly sanded down, right?

• 1:48:26Speaker 03

  Well, those were in the process, that's Ollantaytambo, that's the Temple of the Sun at the summit.

• 1:48:31Speaker 05

  I'm just, the faces of it look so smooth.

• 1:48:34Speaker 03

  That's Ollantay, that's Ollantaytambo. And, this was in the process of being constructed at the top when it halted. You can see the blocks there. Those blocks that you're just looking at were in the process of...

• 1:48:45Speaker 05

  So something happened?

• 1:48:46Speaker 03

  Yes. Those blocks were in the process of being transported. And they were being, they were being worked right there. They were being prepped to be incorporated into the walls. And it just halted. And the conventional explanation is that it halted because the Spanish arrived. That's what halted the work. But, but I think what halted the work was cataclysm. Personally. I think that's what halted the work. Something like a younger Dry's impact.

• 1:49:17Speaker 02

  What's that, Jimmy?

• 1:49:18Speaker 05

  See, right here, it looks like the face of the wall, you know? Like, it looks like it's all uniform and fits together, right? But if that, right here, is part of the wall...

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's filler in the backing.

• 1:49:26Speaker 05

  Then that's like...

• 1:49:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, they have filler in the backing. Some of them, yeah, some of them, the blocks are, it's just gigantic blocks. Others, it's like the facade is exquisite and...

• 1:49:35Speaker 05

  Like what we have here. We have that brick, you know, that brick in the back, the background? Used to just be brick at the other studio?

• 1:49:40Speaker 03

  Uh-huh.

• 1:49:41Speaker 05

  Kind of like that.

• 1:49:42Speaker 02

  Right, right. I know what you're saying. Yeah, but, except these are enormous.

• 1:49:46Speaker 05

  Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Or, I don't know.

• 1:49:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean...

• 1:49:50Speaker 05

  Hardened in place and sanded down.

• 1:49:51Speaker 03

  So, oh, there is a point of the guy standing, there is a picture of the guy standing in the corner. There's a guy standing in the corner that I was referencing earlier. You just had, there it is, right there, that guy.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  No, the one below it.

• 1:50:01Speaker 03

  I don't think you can see the corner very well.

• 1:50:03Speaker 02

  That, right there, the middle?

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  See the guy in the blue standing there?

• 1:50:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, right there.

• 1:50:07Speaker 03

  Behind him, there's this, you can see how the stone below him, it's curved into the corner. That's not a separate stone. That's, it's literally curved into that corner.

• 1:50:17Speaker 03

  It's, it's

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  It's just so weird. The nubs are weird.

• 1:50:21Speaker 03

  They are weird.

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  And it's weird that they occur all over the world. And it's like, it speaks almost to like, is that how they carried them and placed them? Is that a part of the construction? Is that something about how they made them? That they left these nubs? Like, what is, what are the nubs?

• 1:50:38Speaker 03

  No one has any idea what the nubs are.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  That seems so weird that we have no answer to a feature that occurs over and over again in all this megalithic architecture.

• 1:50:48Speaker 03

  All over the world.

• 1:50:51Speaker 05

  They keep showing these three. Those, they kinda look like the nubs, but they look way different.

• 1:50:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're a lot rougher.

• 1:50:57Speaker 03

  See those, um, see those smaller pieces of stone there in between the large blocks?

• 1:51:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:01Speaker 03

  That's an anti-seismic property. That's a technology that they use so that the rocks can shift and move and, and not crumble. That's, it's ingenious. And like I said, you have two different styles here to Ojente Tambo. You have, you have the polygonal, and then you have the, the interlocking rectangular. Those are two different styles in the same site. That's one of the things that makes Ojente Tambo fascinating. And that rectangular interlocking style comes from Tiwanaku, which is another amazing megalithic site in Bolivia.

• 1:51:33Speaker 02

  What's interesting is when you combine all these sites all over the world and you have all these questions that are very similar. Like, how? How'd they do this? Why, why is this stuff the oldest stuff? Why is this stuff the bottom stuff? Why is the base of it the most spectacular construction? And why does it seem like more primitive stuff is on top of that?

• 1:51:54Speaker 03

  Cause they like the way it looked.

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, right, yeah. But it's, it's the same question over and over again. And the, the reluctance to propose that perhaps the oldest stuff is more complicated because the civilization was more complex.

• 1:52:09Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  That's what they're unwilling to, they're unwilling to open up that door. But that door's the only door that makes any sense.

• 1:52:16Speaker 03

  Not only was the civilization complex, the knowledge was universal. That's a problem.

• 1:52:22Speaker 02

  That is a problem.

• 1:52:22Speaker 03

  The knowledge was universal.

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  Cause that means you're talking about a seafaring, traveling civilization.

• 1:52:28Speaker 03

  You're talking about something that's a lot more impressive than cavemen, right?

• 1:52:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:52:33Speaker 03

  So

• 1:52:33Speaker 02

  Especially if this guy, this Italian guy is right in terms of his, because 20,000 B.C. we're, we're supposed to be just brutes.

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, cavemen.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  Skin-wearing, yeah.

• 1:52:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:46Speaker 02

  We're wearing animal skins, and we have spears.

• 1:52:50Speaker 03

  You're, you're a chimpanzee with a better brain.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:52Speaker 03

  Back then. And, and, and as I said before, you know, you look at that kind of, um, architecture, and you and I, were we to encounter the Inca, go back in time, the, in the late 1500s? The Inca are still around, the builders, the alleged builders of these monuments. I mean, they were building Ojente Tambo, right? When you arrived, they quit building.

• 1:53:18Speaker 03

  Why did the Spanish architects not incorporate any of that?

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:53:23Speaker 03

  Into their buildings?

• 1:53:23Speaker 02

  Why did they not learn the techniques?

• 1:53:25Speaker 03

  That's superior technology.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:27Speaker 03

  That's anti-seismic. And the point is illustrated because in Cusco, they built their cathedrals, right? They, they knocked down the, the, the, the palaces of the Inca, and they, they raised the cathedrals in, uh, in Cusco. And guess what happens? You get a big earthquake? The cathedrals crumble to the ground, except for their megalithic foundations, which remain unmoved. Earthquake comes, cathedrals fall, the walls of Saxaywaman stand. And it's happened various times throughout history. Who, what architect would not have taken advantage of that knowledge had it been available to them during the time of the Inca?

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:08Speaker 03

  I mean, like I said, you could build the most magnificent cathedrals on planet Earth, and you could make the Inca build it for you. And now, you can say that the Inca refused, would have refused to, to, to pass this knowledge on. Okay, maybe. I mean, there was a, there was a society within the Inca. You know, they were taught by the Grandes Almaltas, they called them, who were the, the great teachers of the Inca nobility and the keepers of the secrets and so forth. They had, the Inca didn't even have written language. They used kipus. Kipus was a, it's a system of ropes and knots, of string and knots. They didn't even have written language. So, it's absolutely extraordinary. And there is, nobody can give me an adequate explanation as to why such amazing knowledge is just forgotten.

• 1:54:53Speaker 03

  Wow. I mean, would we forget how to build computers? No. So, so why would we just forget how to build megaliths? Why? That's not something you forget. These things don't fall down in earthquakes. That's something you pass on carefully from one generation to the next. Unless, like our ancient antecedents tell us, there was a cataclysm that rocked the Earth and eliminated the civilizations that were inhabiting the Earth. That's, to me, that, that, that's the best explanation.

• 1:55:27Speaker 02

  Well, it's certainly the most logical explanation if you weren't attached to a timeline. If you didn't have this timeline that these archaeologists insist upon, then you would say, okay, clearly, we know that a cataclysm occurred. Clearly, we know the Younger Dryas impact theory is accepted.

• 1:55:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:44Speaker 02

  And especially now, so

• 1:55:47Speaker 03

  Becoming more so over time.

• 1:55:48Speaker 02

  More likely, much more likely that there was something going on that we don't totally understand tens of thousands of years ago.

• 1:55:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I think we would do very well to listen, to take serious the myths and legends.

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  Well, it's also weird that, like, the Aztecs, like, I used to think that the Aztecs created those temples and those pyramids. And then I found out fairly recently that they never even claimed to have.

• 1:56:19Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:56:19Speaker 02

  That they say they found them, and that these were the birthplace of the gods.

• 1:56:24Speaker 03

  Yes. See, that's what I was gonna say about, uh, Machu Picchu. So, Machu, you know the name of Machu Picchu? It's not Machu Picchu, in Quechua, it's Ijampu. And Ijampu means the abode of the gods, or the dwelling of the gods. This is how they viewed the megaliths. I mean, this is how, if we were primitive people coming upon these megalithic structures, what would we think? The gods must have done this. The gods lived here. And so then we would rebuild. We would re-inhabit the habitation of the gods.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, why would you live anywhere else if you live there?

• 1:56:53Speaker 03

  Right, and it would be the nobility.

• 1:56:54Speaker 02

  The dopest architecture you've ever imagined.

• 1:56:56Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:56:57Speaker 02

  Why would you let some idiots take it over?

• 1:56:59Speaker 03

  You wouldn't.

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  Give me that, that's mine.

• 1:57:01Speaker 03

  You wouldn't.

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. You know, there's also the, the weirdness of Peru, like the Nazca lines? Like, what the, what the hell is all that about?

• 1:57:09Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't know, that's a great mystery.

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  There's a lot of weirdness to Peru.

• 1:57:14Speaker 03

  There's a lot of weirdness in Peru.

• 1:57:15Speaker 02

  And how about those, uh, the ancient tapestries that show those three-fingered, three-toed, big-headed people with big eyes? And it's ubiquitous? And these are a thousand years old?

• 1:57:27Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, you, and then you have the Paracas culture, with those massive elongated skulls.

• 1:57:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:57:33Speaker 03

  And the, and the Paracas culture, by the way, you know, people see these elongated skulls online. I, I was in, I've been in Paracas a lot. I've done a lot of research down there on the Paracas culture and other things. Made some interesting discoveries, by the way, with our drone, with our GPR unit. But you see these images online, and you think that the, the Paracas people, their, their skulls are so large and elongated, you think they're, they're, these must have been big people, right? That's what it looks like. No, they, they were tiny. They were really little. They were bizarre. Their, their morph, the morphology of their body was different than ours.

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  Tiny with big heads?

• 1:58:12Speaker 03

  Yes. The Paracas people were very small, and they had a proclivity to live in, in, underground. They had subterranean dwellings. And their eye sockets of some of these elongated skulls, the eye sockets are like 25% larger, the orbital socket. So they're big eyes, elongated skull, very diminutive people, in some cases, living underground.

• 1:58:32Speaker 02

  Well, I've heard people have theories about Neanderthals, that Neanderthals with larger eye sockets as well might have been able to see at night, like the way deer can and

• 1:58:45Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:58:46Speaker 02

  The way, you know, other animals that are nocturnal can see at night, that they have a different kind of eye structure. Obviously, we don't know what the eye structure was. But if you have a significantly larger eye socket, a significantly larger eyeball, it seems, I mean, we know that nocturnal vision exists in cats and exists in a bunch of different animals. But the idea of it existing in primates, we've, you know, we kinda dismiss that.

• 1:59:12Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, a bigger eye gathers more light.

• 1:59:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:16Speaker 03

  So it's a, it's, it's a nocturnal feature.

• 1:59:19Speaker 02

  Not only do we have no idea what the soft tissue structure of their eyes was like.

• 1:59:22Speaker 03

  No. No. Now, granted, for all the skeptics out there, yes, many of the elongated skulls in Peru and other places around the world are the result of cranial deformation. So, yes, they were deforming their skulls with headboarding, cradle headboarding and binding and so forth. Um, there's evidence of that, and you can see the evidence when you're there, if you know what you're looking for on the skulls. But I don't believe that that explains all of the elongated skulls, not just in Peru, other parts of the world, but especially in Peru. There are some examples of elongated skulls that, I mean, look like a, look like a, a genetic, um...

• 2:00:04Speaker 03

  Alteration is the best way I can say it. So there's this, there's a, and you can pull this up Jamie if you can find it. There's a, there's a mummy, I'm trying to think of the name of the, of the museum where it's housed. There's a, I think it's the San Marcos Museum in Lima. There's a mummy, one of the first mummy that was discovered by Julio Tejo. Julio Tejo, or one of the first, if not the first. Julio Tejo was the eminent archaeologist that discovered the Paracas culture. And he's like their greatest archaeologist in Peru, was a phenomenal archaeologist. And he discovered all kinds of things about the Paracas culture. Uh, and he dug up this mummy. And it is, it is, it is the most bizarre mummy I've ever seen in my life.

• 2:00:49Speaker 03

  It has a massive elongated skull, massive.

• 2:00:53Speaker 02

  We showed a few of those the other day when Cassie Coppersmith was on. We showed a few of these, uh, ones that don't have the sagittal suture.

• 2:01:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:00Speaker 02

  They're, they're weird, like the, just the actual structure of the skull is different.

• 2:01:05Speaker 03

  But this one has the skin on it. Except for a part of the face is gone, but it's got the skin on it. You can actually see what, what this skull looked like with the skin on it. And then the morphology of the body is just weird. I mean, I, I think it's in the museum, if I recall, the Museum of San Marcos in Lima. Um, so these are.

• 2:01:26Speaker 02

  And how tall were these things?

• 2:01:27Speaker 03

  Oh, they were small. I mean, we're talking four foot tall.

• 2:01:30Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:01:30Speaker 03

  These guys were little.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  Giant heads and four feet tall.

• 2:01:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're little. Everyone thinks they were big. No, no, no. They were little, some of them. I mean, I think they were four and a half, maybe averaged four to four and a half feet tall, somewhere in there. They were very small. Um, maybe from four to five feet tall, I don't remember, but they're significantly, they're, they're very small, they're diminutive people.

• 2:01:49Speaker 05

  Tell me which one it is, I don't know. I've never seen one with skin on it, that's not really popular.

• 2:01:54Speaker 02

  That one's nuts.

• 2:01:55Speaker 03

  There, the one that, uh, Brian Forster's looking at.

• 2:01:57Speaker 05

  Right here?

• 2:01:58Speaker 03

  Right there, yeah. That run right there is just absolutely bizarre. When you look at, take a look at the, look at how tall that forehead is on that, there's skin on there. Very well preserved. And if you look around the back, you can't see it here in this image, but if you look around the back side of it, the neck is very bizarre. It's sort of, it's a curved.

• 2:02:18Speaker 02

  That is so weird.

• 2:02:20Speaker 03

  I mean, imagine coming upon somebody here in Austin that has a skull like that.

• 2:02:27Speaker 05

  There might be a few of them here.

• 2:02:28Speaker 02

  Right, and that.

• 2:02:32Speaker 02

  I mean, that does not look like cranial deformation, that looks like a totally different kind of head.

• 2:02:37Speaker 03

  Looks like a genetic anomaly.

• 2:02:42Speaker 02

  What is that one in the middle? Yeah, what is that one? Jeez.

• 2:02:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's, there's all kinds of very interesting specimens like that. And as you said, Peru's a very, very strange place.

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  The one on the far left is the craziest one to me.

• 2:02:55Speaker 03

  It's a Chongo skull. That one was discovered at the Chongos Necropolis.

• 2:02:59Speaker 02

  Like what the hell is that? I mean, just the volume of the brain is so much larger than a human being's.

• 2:03:05Speaker 03

  That picture might be elongated, you know, someone might have altered that picture. It is very impressive, that one might be elongated. Um, the picture, I mean.

• 2:03:13Speaker 02

  Right, that's more like it.

• 2:03:15Speaker 03

  But the skull, the, these skulls, many of these skulls, that's in the Museum of Ica. And the city of Ica in Peru.

• 2:03:22Speaker 02

  That's absolutely insane.

• 2:03:23Speaker 03

  These skulls, the, the Chongo skull was taken from the Chongos Necropolis. If you go over to the Chongos Necropolis today, which is out in the desert, you see these things sticking out of the ground. And they got red here, all, all burned here. And we were, we were over there with our, um, with our crew and there's a pyramid there. But it's a, it's an adobe pyramid. And it's called the, uh, the Chongos Pyramid. And nobody really goes to this area because it's sort of off the beaten path, it's not, not well known. Um, we were actually working in an area further down the road. Because at the time, we were looking for treasure, we were filming a, like a, for, like a TV show, looking for, for treasure.

• 2:04:07Speaker 03

  And there was this, um, there's this pond that has a very interesting UFO story attached to it, further up the road. And, uh, so we were working up there, but every day when we, we drive by the, the pyramid, the Chongos Pyramid. And it's an adobe pyramid, so it's not super impressive, it's made of large adobe blocks. But it was a large, uh, urban center. It was, some people think it was the capital of the Paracas culture. Very large urban center. And it was in a necropolis, there's tons of, of remains. And the, the elongated skull, some of these Paracas people, the nobility for sure, they were buried in, in burial bundles. And they're in the fetal position.

• 2:04:48Speaker 03

  And these burial bundles are, are, they're usually layers of fabric and there's various items in there. And they're just under the surface of the sand, they're right there. And you get a lot of grave robbers, wakeros who go in there and, and, you know, steal all kinds of artifacts and stuff. But we're driving by, I looked at the pyramid and I thought, I had this intuition. There's, there's a, there's, there's a tunnel under that pyramid. There's, there's, there's a tunnel system under that pyramid, I don't know why, I just had this intuition. So we decided to go over there one day and fly our, our GPR drone around the pyramid. And we did a, uh, we, we did an extensive run around that pyramid.

• 2:05:31Speaker 03

  We did like a cross configuration with the drone to make sure that we get a good reading. And we found two massive artificial tunnels under the pyramid that intersect a hundred feet below that pyramid. You could drive a semi truck through them. And we don't know how far they go, but they go. And we actually spent some time trying to find a way into them, we couldn't, we ran out of time. Um, but it's, it's remarkable because Julio Tejo remarks in his writing about the Paracas culture. That the Paracas people seem to have a affinity for living under the ground. They had subterranean dwellings. And I've explored some of these subterranean dwellings out in the, out in the Paracas Reserve.

• 2:06:15Speaker 03

  And what's, they're really cool because they, you'll see like these, these hills, they look like, um, they look like long houses that are built, that are, that are buried in the ground. So you see like this, this, this elongated hill. And really what it is, is it's whale bones. They use like the vertebrae of whale. So you got whale bones, and then they would pack on top, all kinds of, they would pack on earth. But then they would also add in organic material. And it would create like an insulating effect and heat the interior. But they were subterranean, so what you see are the roofs of the, of the dwellings. And then they went down into the ground and there were tunnels and there's all kinds of stuff. This is where these weird people with the elongated skulls were living.

• 2:06:58Speaker 03

  It's absolutely, it's absolutely bizarre.

• 2:07:01Speaker 02

  How old are these, uh, mummies?

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  I think the Paracas culture, oh jeez, it goes back maybe to, I don't remember, 200 B.C. or something like that. I can't remember, maybe not that far back. Um, I really don't remember, they're, they're, that's, that can't be accurate. I think it goes back to, definitely to the first century A.D. I don't remember off the top of my head.

• 2:07:24Speaker 02

  What happened? Where'd those people go?

• 2:07:27Speaker 03

  That's, that's the question, I mean, the, the, I think that the prevailing theory is that they became the Nazca people. That they didn't go anywhere. That, that essentially the, the Nazca people were the Paracas people.

• 2:07:39Speaker 02

  Like they interbred?

• 2:07:41Speaker 03

  No, that the culture just sort of migrated and, and, and became the Nazca people.

• 2:07:45Speaker 02

  So what happened to those genetic features?

• 2:07:47Speaker 03

  That, well, there are some among the Nazca, but not as much as among the Paracas. Others think that the Paracas, they just disappeared, like they were either exterminated or there's, you know, there's multiple theories. But there's no question that they were bizarre, bizarre. And of course.

• 2:08:05Speaker 02

  And there's physical evidence of this, like we're talking about the, the mummies before, excuse me, the giants before. And we, we know, like, it's just stories. This is actual physical evidence.

• 2:08:15Speaker 03

  You mean the elongated skulls?

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:17Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, they're everywhere down there. Now, granted, as I said before, many of them are the result of, many of them are the result of cranial deformation.

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  But what about these motherfuckers?

• 2:08:25Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:08:26Speaker 05

  They're not all elongated.

• 2:08:27Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, how do you elongate that, you got a balloon in someone's head?

• 2:08:29Speaker 03

  I've seen some really big heart shaped heads.

• 2:08:32Speaker 02

  That is so. Imagine meeting that guy.

• 2:08:35Speaker 03

  That's small compared to some ones I've seen, like some of the ones I've seen like look like a heart, really big. And, um, actually that particular skull was, was exceptionally large, when I saw that, looked like a heart. Um, yeah, so just keep in mind, yes, cranial deformation is.

• 2:08:51Speaker 02

  What Jamie?

• 2:08:51Speaker 05

  It says that these two in the front left row are from the Billobate.

• 2:08:56Speaker 05

  And now I don't know what the hell that means.

• 2:08:59Speaker 02

  Bilobate?

• 2:08:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's what the picture says.

• 2:09:01Speaker 02

  What does that mean? Do you know what that means?

• 2:09:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:09:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, so it's two skulls from the front are from the bilobate.

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  Bro.

• 2:09:06Speaker 05

  It's italicized.

• 2:09:07Speaker 03

  They are bilobate. I don't know what that means.

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  Look at that one on the left in the middle. Those are nuts. That is just, imagine meeting that cat.

• 2:09:16Speaker 03

  And here's the other question.

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  Look at the size of his eyes.

• 2:09:18Speaker 03

  Here's the other question, the why buying the head?

• 2:09:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:09:22Speaker 03

  And, and this is all, as you know, all over the world. It's, they do it in Africa. They do it all, the Native Americans, the Flathead tribe up in Montana are called the Flathead because they would cradle board. They're young and they get these flat.

• 2:09:36Speaker 03

  They, they would have these very distinct skulls. So, um, why?

• 2:09:41Speaker 02

  Right, where they're emulating.

• 2:09:42Speaker 03

  Why are these cultures doing, they're emulating something?

• 2:09:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  Who or what are they emulating? That's the question. And of course you have in ancient Egypt, you have, you know, figures with elongated skulls like Nefertiti and her daughters. Um, who are depicted with very pronounced elongated skulls. Now is that the, is that just the result of cradle head, head boarding? Probably. I don't know. But why do that?

• 2:10:06Speaker 02

  Well, the problem is some of these skulls have actual larger volume than a human skull.

• 2:10:09Speaker 03

  That's true. Some of them do.

• 2:10:11Speaker 02

  That's, that's where it gets really weird.

• 2:10:12Speaker 03

  That's true. There's no question.

• 2:10:13Speaker 02

  So if you have 20%, 30%, even 40% more volume, which is like, okay.

• 2:10:19Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:10:20Speaker 02

  40% more brain is nuts. Like, what does that mean?

• 2:10:23Speaker 05

  There's a slight explanation for what we were just looking up and that was the, what you were just saying.

• 2:10:27Speaker 03

  What is the?

• 2:10:28Speaker 05

  It's something to do with male and female.

• 2:10:30Speaker 02

  So it says bilobate, that thing that you were talking about. Tubular erect was the most common among both sexes. Bilobate skulls were observed at a much higher rate in female skulls. This association with sex has evidenced in some Paracas ceramics where men and women are depicted with distinctly tubular erect or bilobate heads respectively.

• 2:10:52Speaker 05

  And then it even goes into this.

• 2:10:54Speaker 03

  So the bilobate is in the, the, the hard shape.

• 2:10:57Speaker 05

  Fucking weird, man.

• 2:10:58Speaker 03

  It is weird. It is extremely weird. And then of course you have those, you know, the alleged alien mummies down there.

• 2:11:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. What do you think about those? Cause there's a lot of people now that are saying that those are elaborate hoaxes.

• 2:11:06Speaker 03

  I went down to Peru. I was invited to go down there, um, by, uh, Dr. Roger Zuniga or Professor Roger Zuniga. You go down and, and look at the specimens that they have the ECA museum. Uh, they have four specimens at the ECA museum. The most impressive specimen that they have there is called Maria. And Maria's in the fetal position. She's a large, one of the larger mummies. Um, then they have a few other ones. They have two of the, of the, the small ones, the ones that Jaime Masan famously, you know, revealed over there in Mexico during that thing that he did over there, that press thing. And, and then you have one that's called Wawita, which seems to be like, uh, some kind of a combination of, of different things.

• 2:11:49Speaker 03

  And, um, so I went down there to the university and, uh, walked up to these things and, and at first I have to say, my first impression of Maria, I didn't really care about the little ones. I never believed that the little ones were ever.

• 2:12:03Speaker 02

  Right. The little ones look squirrely.

• 2:12:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. I never believed that they were living, organic beings. They're very rigid.

• 2:12:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, they look fake.

• 2:12:09Speaker 03

  I don't think that, you know, like their morphology really could have worked in the real world.

• 2:12:12Speaker 02

  But like Monstera, like that one?

• 2:12:14Speaker 03

  Monstera and, and Maria and, um, there's a bunch of them. Those are very compelling when you, when you're standing next to them, looking at them.

• 2:12:25Speaker 03

  They, they were compelling. So I looked at the mummies and then I interviewed, um, Roger Zuniga. And he's very, very convinced that they're 100% real. Sincerely. I mean, I, I like, um, Professor Zuniga. And he really is convinced. I don't think he's not trying to perpetrate some kind of a hoax. Neither is anybody at the University of ECA. There's a good faith effort going on there to try and investigate this and, and, and continually do testing. And there, it's, it's an open field. They're inviting.

• 2:12:56Speaker 02

  Have they done genetic testing on these?

• 2:12:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, they've done all kinds of testing. So.

• 2:12:58Speaker 02

  So what do they find?

• 2:13:00Speaker 03

  Here's the problem. There's been a lot of testing done, but, but I don't think the interpretation of the data has been competent. Um, and so initially I was pretty impressed. I thought it was more likely than not. I even said this on the Michael Knowles show, that it was more likely than not in my mind that the, the, the larger mummies like Maria were real, but I've since reversed that position. I think it's more likely than not that all of them are a hoax. That's my personal opinion. And this is a hot topic, you know, like on X and stuff. There's a lot of people who are absolutely sincerely convinced that these things are real. The problem is that this entire thing started with a, with a grave robber, a very shady individual.

• 2:13:46Speaker 03

  And the very first mummies that were brought forward were, were, were hoaxes, were fake. That's how it started. And, you know, this is a whole, it's a whole saga. We don't have to get into, but it started with fakes. It started with a hoax. And then they, you know, then allegedly they started to produce the real, the real ones. And I, I just have a hard time believing that, that this is an elaborate hoax. Now I've talked to some of the individuals who've, um, who've done some of the scientific work on these. They don't want me to mention their names or anything.

• 2:14:22Speaker 03

  Um, they're trying to just sort of stay neutral. They don't want the press. And they, they also doubt that they're, they're real. They think they're really, really elaborate hoaxes. And, um, I know that a lot of money has exchanged hands in regard to these things. Maria was on, up for sale for a million dollars at one point. And if, I mean, if you're a proven grave robber, a million dollars is like a billion dollars. I mean, um, so that's to me, that's, uh.

• 2:14:53Speaker 02

  Can we see what the Maria one looks like?

• 2:14:55Speaker 03

  That's not, that casts a lot of shade on the whole thing for me.

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:15:00Speaker 03

  Now I can't say scientifically, the DNA data, this, that, the other, but there's a lot of debate going back and forth on this thing.

• 2:15:07Speaker 02

  Well, I think one of the problems is anatomists, uh, experts in anatomy have looked at the structure of the feet.

• 2:15:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  And the hands and they, they, it doesn't seem to jive with what they understand about the structure of feet.

• 2:15:20Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 2:15:21Speaker 02

  That the bones are not in the proper position. They're not the proper size. They don't, it doesn't look like it makes sense. But damn, that's amazing.

• 2:15:31Speaker 03

  That's Maria.

• 2:15:32Speaker 02

  Like, here's the thing. If it is a hoax, like what an amazing job they did.

• 2:15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Maybe, maybe the greatest hoax ever perpetrated in the history of archaeology.

• 2:15:40Speaker 02

  Like who did it? And like what, what talent this person has?

• 2:15:45Speaker 05

  There's a new note, cause this, this website, this is the tridactyls.org. It got up, there's a little note that popped up. It says they have ongoing research that just got updated.

• 2:15:53Speaker 03

  This is a great website.

• 2:15:55Speaker 02

  What is the ongoing research?

• 2:15:57Speaker 05

  They're just, there's more videos on here than I've ever seen before.

• 2:15:59Speaker 02

  Maria might be Mario.

• 2:16:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, Mario. They call him Mario now.

• 2:16:02Speaker 02

  To dude.

• 2:16:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:16:03Speaker 02

  Maybe he's non-binary.

• 2:16:05Speaker 05

  Bunch more data down here. I don't know what all this stuff is.

• 2:16:08Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 2:16:08Speaker 05

  Bunch more data.

• 2:16:09Speaker 03

  That's a great resource there.

• 2:16:12Speaker 02

  Uh, so it's tridactyls.org.

• 2:16:14Speaker 03

  Tridactyls.org.

• 2:16:15Speaker 02

  Go to the, uh, images of it again. Go down like right there. So this, uh, okay, this is a 3D scan.

• 2:16:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, these are all scanned. These are videos of the scans.

• 2:16:27Speaker 02

  Fucking weird, man. Look at the length also of the fingers and the toes.

• 2:16:35Speaker 02

  But you think that's a hoax?

• 2:16:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, people said it wouldn't work.

• 2:16:37Speaker 03

  You know, I.

• 2:16:40Speaker 02

  What'd you say, Jamie?

• 2:16:41Speaker 05

  People said that like the, you can't grab stuff. There's pictures down here. They have a people trying, uh, where was it? Trying to like grab stuff with, uh, I might've been looking at a different, yeah, I was looking at this.

• 2:16:54Speaker 05

  These are the fingers that you couldn't bend, they wouldn't bend or something like that. It's hard to, like this person trying to grab stuff with long fingers without bendable, you know, uh, appendages, I guess.

• 2:17:05Speaker 02

  Well, we're assuming that they had to grab things.

• 2:17:07Speaker 05

  Well, what would you have fingers for?

• 2:17:10Speaker 02

  Well, maybe they put them on a spaceship. That's how they pilot it. Maybe they've gone past the idea of picking things up. Maybe they lift things with their mind. Maybe that's how they moved the blocks into place. I don't know.

• 2:17:23Speaker 03

  I'm more convinced than not that they're, that they're a hoax. I don't, I can't say definitively.

• 2:17:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would lean in that direction because I want them to be real. And the problem, but also whoever did hoax them, like Monstera, whoever hoaxed that, like what an amazing job you guys did. And also there's some of them that have weird implants in their heads.

• 2:17:40Speaker 03

  They have metal implants.

• 2:17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:41Speaker 03

  And the one, a couple of them have them in the hand. Others have them in the forehead.

• 2:17:44Speaker 02

  Very weird stuff.

• 2:17:45Speaker 03

  Some of them have fetuses apparently, although that's, there's some dispute about that. And they say the fetuses look like, you know, that they look the same as the adults, which would be remarkable if true, but that's disputed. Everything's disputed.

• 2:17:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:17:56Speaker 03

  There's, I mean, there's, there's, there's, there's a factional battle here between the, the believers and the naysayers.

• 2:18:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:18:05Speaker 03

  And they're both looking at the same data, interpreting, interpreting it differently. So that's why I just sort of stand back and say, I don't know. I mean, I can tell you how it started. It started with grave robbers, very, um, uh, very seedy people. And it started, the, the initial ones were not real. I know that because I know, um, the individuals who were involved in that whole thing. So.

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• 2:19:59Speaker 02

  Just that alone. Yeah.

• 2:20:01Speaker 03

  Just that alone.

• 2:20:02Speaker 02

  But then, how did they make the skin? How did they cover it? How did they make it look like that?

• 2:20:06Speaker 03

  I don't know. They're really good. I mean, you know, if you were selling these things for hundreds of thou-- if you're making a hundred thousand dollars on-- just a hundred thousand dollars on one of these mummies, and you're a poor grave robber, you would do anything. Take whatever time it-- whatever it took to produce one of these, to sell it, to make a hundred thousand dollars.

• 2:20:24Speaker 02

  But haven't they aged them? Like, and they're really old?

• 2:20:28Speaker 03

  They harvest the pieces from the graves.

• 2:20:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:20:33Speaker 03

  From, from the Nasca Procu graves.

• 2:20:36Speaker 02

  So, they construct this somehow from really old skeletons, pieced it together?

• 2:20:41Speaker 03

  That's the allegation, and also from old llamas and stuff like that.

• 2:20:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. One of the other weird things about these elongated heads is that they have-- where it connects to the spine is in a different position than a human skull.

• 2:20:54Speaker 03

  Yes, there is some indication of that. Um, that's why I was pointing out on that, the one that, with the skin on it, there is a very interesting morphology with it, with it, of the neck where it connects into the spinal cord. Now, I'm not an expert on anatomy, I don't know. All I can look at it and say is, that's frickin' weird.

• 2:21:13Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:21:14Speaker 03

  It is weird. And all I, and, and, I mean, I always just remind people, just, you can argue about all the dad all day long, but if one of those people walked into this room right now?

• 2:21:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:21:25Speaker 03

  It wouldn't just be a little weird.

• 2:21:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:21:28Speaker 03

  It would be, it would be utterly bizarre.

• 2:21:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:31Speaker 03

  And--

• 2:21:32Speaker 02

  An actual, real human mummy, or whatever it is, mummy, if that was alive today, it would freak you out.

• 2:21:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, larger orbital sockets, very small, extremely elongated head. Yeah, it would freak you out.

• 2:21:44Speaker 02

  It just makes you wonder, like, what was the world like back then? What, what were these people like? Was there a separate branch of the human species?

• 2:21:56Speaker 03

  I don't know. I think, I'm pretty sure now, I'm recalling the date, 2000, 2500 B.C., somewhere around there is where the Procu culture goes back to. And then it, I think it existed until 700 A.D. I'm, I'm not sure that those numbers are accurate, but that's what I remember. Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff in Peru.

• 2:22:16Speaker 02

  A lot of weird stuff in just ancient history in particular. What do you make of, like, things like Zeptepe and the Sumerian kings list, where you, you go back in time, and you have these incredible ages of some of these rulers that ruled for thousands of years?

• 2:22:34Speaker 03

  Um, well, what's interest-- what's really interesting is that if you overlay the Sumerian kings list with the, with the list of patriarchs, pre-flood patriarchs in Genesis 5, it's like a one-to-one match. So, um, I'm not convinced that, I think that the, the Sumerian kings list is, the ages is mythological. Um, I don't think that they were ruling for thousands and thousands of years. Um, I, like I said, I see this very interesting overlay over the, over the Genesis 6 genealogy. These are the patriarchs from Adam to Noah. And specifically, I mean, these are the patriarchs who lived before the flood. The flood came in the time of Noah.

• 2:23:17Speaker 03

  And, you know, there's a lot of debate right now, especially online, and I think you've had people here on your show as well, that talk about the Sumerian story being the oldest story, and being our, sort of the, the original story of the flood, and, and of the antediluvian world, but I actually, I have a different view of that. I think actually the oldest story is the story of Enoch, is the Enochian story. I think that's the original story. And maybe some of this strangeness, maybe some of the bizarre things that we see, and the, the stories of the flood, and of the giants, and all of that, maybe something like

• 2:24:00Speaker 03

  the Book of Enoch is a, is a, actually an accurate account of affairs, of things that happened in the antediluvian world. And certainly, the writers of the biblical narrative believe that. I mean, the writer of Genesis, and then obvi-- in the New Testament, you have references to, to what I call the Enochian tale. And so, when you think about this, the antediluvian world, the cataclysm that, that destroyed it seemingly overnight, the great civilizations that existed back then, um, you see a, you see a series of, of parallels in all the stories, all the ancient stories, uh, whether

• 2:24:41Speaker 03

  it be the, the Sumerians, whether it be the, the ancient Egyptians, the, um, the Hebrews, the Greeks, the Romans, there are parallels in certain details. Great civilizations inhabited the earth, or at least a great civilization, and that doesn't necessarily mean that, that they had the kind of technology that we have today. Uh, I think that's a mistake that some people make when they're thinking about the antediluvian world and a lost civilization. They think, well, that means that there were skyscrapers, and, and automobiles, and aircraft, and things like that. That's not necessarily what it means. Um, and, so, I think it's very, very interesting that you have all of these parallels of cataclysm,

• 2:25:25Speaker 03

  giants, um, you have a fractricidal war that's discussed, for example, in, in, you have the Vedas, and, and some of the ancient Indian origin stories. And another component that you find everywhere is this idea that the gods descended to the earth, commingled with the human species, progenerated a race of demigods, in many accounts, giants, who then governed the earth, and depending on what version of the story you're reading, they were either good guys or bad guys, leading up to the cataclysm that destroyed everything, you know? In the biblical account, the Great Flood, and other accounts record various kinds of

• 2:26:09Speaker 03

  cataclysm, right, all over the world. So, the question is, I think, an intriguing question is, is it true? I mean, are these basic constituents of these stories, is it true? And, and I happen to believe that, I happen to believe that, that the Book of Enoch is the beginning of the Book of Enoch, the oldest portion of the Book of Enoch, called the Book of the Watchers, is the earliest account of the antediluvian world. And I don't mean necessarily the Book of Enoch that we have today. I mean the tradition of Enoch. Was there a manuscript that Enoch wrote himself?

• 2:26:53Speaker 03

  Enoch was the seventh from Adam, so he's one of those individuals on the Sumerian kings list. I believe he corresponds to Endemoranki, I can't remember how to pronounce the name in, the Sumerian name. But, again, you have this overlay with the pre-flood patriarchs, you have all of these details that correspond. Now we have evidence of cataclysm, we're finding evidence of cataclysm, right? We talked about the Younger Drys impact hypothesis. So, are some of the other details true as well? Were there giants? Were there beings who descended to the earth in the antediluvian world? Did they copulate with human women? I mean, that's, that's essentially the story of Enoch.

• 2:27:38Speaker 03

  Enoch begins with, um, this is first Enoch. Enoch begins with a company of 200 watchers, these beings that are designated as watchers. And they are, they're heavenly beings, and the, the watcher designation is not exclusively extra-biblical. You find it in the Book of Daniel, in a very interesting scene, in which holy watchers are judging Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian king. And they sentence him to a period of time of madness, where he's given the mind of a beast, and he's eating grass. And this is a judgment from the watchers. He's eating grass like an animal, and his hair grows long, and he's basically like a beast out in the field.

• 2:28:21Speaker 03

  The, the haughty king of Babylon, humbled in that way. And, so the watcher designation is, you find it in Daniel, but then in the Book of Enoch, it's much more specific. These were 200 of these watchers. These are non-human celestial entities, you could describe them as extraterrestrial entities. And they--

• 2:28:46Speaker 03

  They begin to lust after the daughters of men. And they desire to, to progenerate families. They want to have families.

• 2:28:56Speaker 02

  Do you think that this is a simplification of genetic engineering? And that this depiction of it is just, you know, like the game of telephone, you're telling the old story through oral tradition for a long period of time as it gets relayed over time, post flood. So you get this sort of distorted version of what the actual event was?

• 2:29:21Speaker 03

  I think it's possible there was genetic engineering involved.

• 2:29:23Speaker 02

  Because we certainly look different than everything else on the planet.

• 2:29:27Speaker 03

  Well, the Book of Enoch, the, at least the Hebrew account, both in the Book of Genesis, because there's a, there's a verse, Genesis 6, that says, "Now came to pass that when men began to multiply in the face of the earth and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful. And they took wives of all whom they chose. There were giants, or Nephilim, in the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came into the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men of old, the men of renown." That's the reference to the, to the origin of giants and Nephilim in the Book of Genesis. And so, in the Bible, you have these angelic beings, the sons of God, who are lusting.

• 2:30:11Speaker 03

  They're looking down at the daughters of men, they see that they're beautiful. The Book of Enoch is even more explicit. The Book of Enoch says that the, that the angels of heaven, the watchers, lusted after the daughters of men, and they desired to progenerate families. So, they descended, they descended to the earth on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they bound themselves by a pact of mutual imprecations. In other words, we're all in this together, they knew what they were about to do was going to be a very grave sin, so they bind themselves with an oath. That's why Mount Hermon has been known since time immemorial as the mountain of oath. Then they descended into the plains, and they began to choose wives from among the daughters of men with whom to copulate.

• 2:30:55Speaker 03

  But first, these were maidens that they intended to marry. And there was a transaction that happened. Because in exchange for the, for the maiden's hands in marriage, the, their fathers were given technology. So the watchers taught men the knowledge that they were already striving to learn. So there's, and that's, and it, that's, that's implied in the text, it's not explicit, but it's implied, because the watchers give technology, and they give knowledge, which results in technology, and they get in exchange the maidens that they desired to marry. And then they, they copulate with them, they have sexual intercourse with them, the women conceive and give birth to giants. And then these giants begin to terrorize the earth.

• 2:31:40Speaker 03

  They're cannibalistic, they begin to devour men.

• 2:31:44Speaker 02

  So, maybe a hybrid, sort of like a liger. You know how a liger is a combination of a tiger and a lion, it's much larger?

• 2:31:53Speaker 03

  Very large.

• 2:31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:55Speaker 03

  But they can't reproduce.

• 2:31:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:31:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. So the, so the result is you have these watchers, yeah, their DNA mixed with the DNA of human women produces giants. And, and, you know, this story, by the way, is attested in the Dead Sea Scrolls, not just in the Bible, not just in the Book of Enoch. The Book of Enoch, of course, fragments of it were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls. But you find, you find this story in, for example, you find it in the Book of Giants, the Book of Jubilees, the Genesis Apocryphon, and other texts as well. And so this is, this story, as bizarre as it is, is foundational to Hebrew cosmology. This is what the ancient Hebrews believed literally happened. Like this was a, in their minds, this was a historical event. You go back in time, you go into the antediluvian world, the world before the flood, what do

• 2:32:42Speaker 03

  they envision? They envision the watchers, these gods, living among men, copulating with human women, giants who were, who were cannibalistic. And then, God decides to intervene, because the giants are, there's, it's a very bad scene on planet earth, and people begin to cry out, petition heaven. God decides to intervene, according to Enoch. And he dispatches some angels, and they, one of the things that they do is they set the giants against each other in a fratricidal war. So, they make the giants go to war with each other. Now, when I envision this scenario, playing with the idea here that this actually happened,

• 2:33:27Speaker 03

  right, in the antediluvian world, I don't imagine big dumb giants, you know, bopping each other over the heads with clubs. I imagine a technological war. Because what I see unfolding here, and I think, again, this is implicit in the Enochian story, is that the watchers are essentially creating a dynasty, they are building an empire called the empire of the gods in the antediluvian world. They are each portioning the earth among themselves, and their hybrids are ruling each of these kingdoms. And then, they go to war with each other. And again, I see this as a technological war, because I don't believe that, in the biblical

• 2:34:09Speaker 03

  account, angels never have wings, only in prophetic iconography. But in the historical narrative of the Bible, angels are never depicted with wings. They are depicted as operating what, what I would describe as advanced aerospace vehicles, the chariots of God, the chariots of Yahweh, the chariots of fire, variously denominated. And I think that these are vehicles of conveyance. And, and so the watchers, when they descended to the earth, I think they descended to the earth in some kind of a vehicle, you know, like that, right? So, they would have the knowledge, and there'd be some technology, and so when these, when their offspring, the giants, went to war with each other in this fratricidal war, it

• 2:34:54Speaker 03

  would have been a technological war. Now, the reason why I say that is because you have the story of the watchers, as chronicled in the Book of Enoch, but then overlay the story of Atlantis. You have the same story. So, of course, the story of Atlantis comes to us from Plato's Timaeus and Critias dialogue. And he has Solon of Athens traveling to Egypt and, and interfacing with the priests of Cis. And they tell him, you know, you don't have any history that's hoary with age and so forth. And then they begin to relate to him the story of Atlantis, because they told him that his ancestors were remarkable people, they were the, they were the Athenians, and

• 2:35:37Speaker 03

  only they could resist the warlike Atlanteans, right? And then we get the story of Atlantis. How does the story of Atlantis begin? In, in Plato's dialogue? Well, it begins with the gods apportioning the earth amongst themselves. That's how it begins. So here are the gods dividing, divvying up the earth, they're going to create what I, again, describe as an empire of the gods. Divvying up the earth, and each one is going to take a portion of the earth for himself. Poseidon, Plato tells us, gets the area of Atlantis. And what does Poseidon do? Well, he becomes enamored of a human woman named Plato.

• 2:36:17Speaker 03

  He takes her to wife, he copulates with her, she gives birth to ten hybrid sons, who become the kings of Atlantis. And I think there's reason to believe that they were giants in the myths. Atlas, for example, was chief among them. So you have these ten hybrid sons ruling over Atlantis. Then, what happens? Then you have, and presumably the other gods did the same thing in other parts of the world, right? They went out and, and married human women and gave birth to hybrid offspring, which is, of course, what happens in Greek mythology of a lot of these gods, they progenerate hybrid offspring. Then you have a war that breaks out.

• 2:36:59Speaker 03

  The Atlanteans become very warlike, they go on a campaign, and they, they're steamrolling everybody in their way, until they get to the Athenians. And they're locked in this conflict, so I'm hoping people are picking up the parallels here with the Book of Enoch, with this, with this story of Enoch. And in the midst of this conflict, what happens? Cataclysm ensues. Atlantis, but not just Atlantis. Atlantis, in the insinuation, is everybody gets destroyed in a cataclysm that erupts

• 2:37:38Speaker 03

  suddenly, and Atlantis is consumed in, in the waves and, and is no more. Well, the whole point of the Egyptians, when they're telling this story to Solon, one of the, one of the points that they're trying to convey to Solon is, there have been many cataclysms, world-ending cataclysms. And every time a cataclysm happens, we have to start over, like children, right? So, the parallels between the Book of Enoch, and I think it, by the way, I think Atlantis, that Atlantis is an allegory of the antediluvian world in general. I think that there was something like an empire of the gods in the antediluvian world.

• 2:38:21Speaker 03

  And I personally believe that, that the biblical record is the, is the faithful account of what happened in the antediluvian world, and with the addition of the Book of Enoch. Because you cannot separate, you cannot separate the Enochian narrative, the Enochic traditions, from the Bible.

• 2:38:38Speaker 02

  Well, Enoch is referenced in the Bible, and the only reason why the Book of Enoch is not in the canon of the Bible is because of some rabbis, right?

• 2:38:46Speaker 03

  Well, it's, it's complicated. So, the Book of Enoch is a compilation of texts. And, ranging from the 4th century B.C. to probably the 1st century A.D., the tradition of Enoch, I think, is very old. I think the tradition of Enoch, this, that, that story I just outlined, that tradition of Enoch is the oldest story we have. The one upon which all the other stories are based, that's my personal opinion. Now, the actual Book of Enoch that we have today, the only reason we have it is because it was preserved in Ethiopia. That's the only reason we have the Book of Enoch today.

• 2:39:25Speaker 02

  The Ethiopian Bible.

• 2:39:26Speaker 03

  The Ethiopians preserved it, both the, the, the, the Bed of Israel Jews, very, very ancient Jewish community, and the Tawahedo Orthodox Christians.

• 2:39:36Speaker 02

  Do you think they have the Ark of the Covenant?

• 2:39:39Speaker 03

  I think, let's put it this way, I think Graham Hancock makes a very compelling case

• 2:39:43Speaker 02

  Very.

• 2:39:44Speaker 03

  that they do. Have you read his book, The Sign and the Seal?

• 2:39:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the whole depiction of these people that are the watchers of this thing, get cataracts because it has some radiation properties.

• 2:39:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, very compelling narrative.

• 2:39:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, none of them live more than a couple of years after they get the assignment.

• 2:39:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, I think it's a, it's a very strong possibility that they do.

• 2:40:04Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 2:40:05Speaker 03

  It would be crazy, yeah, and I think that many people, including Graham, think that the Ark of the Covenant was, there's something technological about it, something radioactive about it.

• 2:40:16Speaker 03

  But it is, it's interesting though, because you have the idea, at the very least, the potential for technology in the antediluvian world, right, advanced technology. So what do I mean? Well, what if, we're talking about the watchers who descended the earth, like I said, the Hebrews believed that that actually happened, that that was historical, that wasn't mythological to them, that was historical, that event. Well, what if they did arrive in something like, like that, like, like a, like a flying saucer, right? What if there was some level of, of technology introduced? But I don't believe that it would have been distributed, broadly distributed, you know, talking about like, like an advanced lost

• 2:40:58Speaker 03

  civilization. I don't think that technology would be broadly distributed, I think that the technology would remain in these family lines, in these dynasties, because their desire was to govern everyone. So I think what we might be looking for, instead of a technologically advanced civilization, maybe a technologically advanced fraternity within civilization, you see what I mean?

• 2:41:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:17Speaker 03

  Like a group that was in, that was in control of something advanced, but the rest of the people maybe were Iron Age or something like that, or whatever, Bronze Age level, which is kind of a different perspective.

• 2:41:30Speaker 02

  Well, we see that today, right? I mean, there's

• 2:41:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:32Speaker 02

  plenty of people today that are uncontacted tribes, that are living like people lived tens of thousands of years ago.

• 2:41:38Speaker 03

  That's exactly right, yeah. So

• 2:41:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not uniform even today.

• 2:41:43Speaker 03

  Right, so we may, so I think that's why when we think about, was there a technologically advanced civilization in the antediluvian world, in the world before the great cataclysm? I think really what we're looking, what I'm looking for is a, is a fraternity, who were in possession of technology that the rest of everyone didn't have, maybe, something like that. Although I will say, that I believe that the antediluvians were much more remarkable than we are, in every way. I think they were physically more robust than we are, I think that they were intellectually much more, they were intellectually superior to us, as I was saying before, this is how the ancients thought of their antecedents. And so when I look back on the timeline of history, the further you go back, all the way to those

• 2:42:27Speaker 03

  pre-flood patriarchs, you're looking at human beings who, who were so superior to us. I mean, certainly according to the biblical account, they were living much, much longer, almost a thousand years. You're looking at human beings who, who we would scarcely be regarded as, as, as human, like them, because they would have been more human than we are, because we've degenerated. So I see a degeneration, I see a devolution in the human species. We started as something really, really remarkable, and we've been gradually devolving over time, so to speak. We've been degenerating. I think that our antecedents, our antediluvian antecedents,

• 2:43:11Speaker 03

  I think they were telepathic. I think that they had these incredible abilities, capabilities that, that, that are perhaps latent in the human species today.

• 2:43:21Speaker 02

  Well, that might have been why these people had such large heads in Peru, too.

• 2:43:24Speaker 03

  Maybe.

• 2:43:25Speaker 02

  Right?

• 2:43:25Speaker 03

  Maybe everybody had elongated skulls at one time, I don't know. But, I mean, think about that, though, I mean, if, if you were, see, from a biblical perspective, Adam was created for two, for two fundamental reasons. He was created to govern the earth, but more than that, he was created to fellowship with the Maker, to commune with the Maker. He was created for fellowship. So think about that. If you were created to fellowship with the Maker, with God, you would have some extraordinary capabilities built into your anatomy, into your biology. You would be given the ability to interface with the Maker,

• 2:44:08Speaker 03

  and not just with the Maker, but with, with whatever, whatever else is out there as well. So, from the very beginning, I think that mankind was, was imbued, was, it was intrinsic in our design, that we had all of these incredible capabilities, maybe remote viewing, maybe, certainly I would say telepathy, because telepathy is conversation at the speed of thought. Right? I mean, we fumble around with words, we, we, it takes us kind of a long time to try and say what we mean, but, but what if what you wanted to convey to me was done so instantaneously? How much more could you convey? How much more information? How much more efficient would that mode of conversation be?

• 2:44:51Speaker 02

  It certainly seems like if we keep evolving, that's the future. Or if we keep developing better and better versions of technology, one of the things that, the gaps that we would bridge is, Elon said that, he said, "We're going to be able to talk without words."

• 2:45:08Speaker 03

  Well, the problem is, that our technology is getting better, but our species is getting dumber.

• 2:45:13Speaker 02

  Right, and our biology is getting weaker.

• 2:45:15Speaker 03

  Is getting

• 2:45:16Speaker 02

  And we're poisoning ourselves.

• 2:45:17Speaker 03

  Weaker. But it's not just because of poison, yes, we poison our environment, we poison our bodies, certainly. But I believe that there's, it's clear to me, that there, that we have degenerating, and we are degenerating. We are degenerating. So, and this is genetic degeneration, so we have what's called mutational load, human beings, all creatures, we have mutational load. And mutational load is, all of the deleterious mutations, all of the negative mutations that happen in our genome, they compile, and it becomes this, it becomes this burden, this genetic burden. We have all of these mutations that we're carrying, mutational load. And the further we go down the line, the more mutational

• 2:46:01Speaker 03

  load we have. And again, these are deleterious mutations. So, you get all kinds of problems from that. I mean, we, we, basically what it amounts to is we become less and less and less impressive over time.

• 2:46:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:46:14Speaker 03

  And there's nothing we can do. You can't reverse that, you can't just have a good diet and, and get, and regain the capabilities that were lost. That's impossible. So, we're declining. Our technology is ascending, we're declining. So what we're headed for, essentially is a post-human future. A future in which we have to, we have to evolve ourselves out of this condition, I would say out of Adam, into something else. And I'm not in favor of that, by the way, I'm not a transhumanist. But clearly, you have this, you have this conundrum, where we are clearly getting dumber, as a species, there's no doubt about it. I

• 2:46:58Speaker 03

  mean, I saw, I can't reference it here, but I saw some data on this the other day, and it's astounding. It's, it's, it's kind of alarming. And not only that, we've realized, I'm, I'm trying to remember the reference to this, this book that's, that details this, but, the human species is essentially becoming reproductively inviable. The sperm count of males in the West is declining precipitously, as is our fitness. So that is on the decline, such that, I think the projection is in 2045 or something like that, we're going to basically be reproductively inviable. We're going to need a technological intervention, like

• 2:47:43Speaker 03

  artificial wombs. Well, what's happening right now? We're developing things like artificial wombs. So it's, it's very interesting that these two things are running in parallel. We're degenerating, but our technology is increasingly getting better. So, the, the result of this is going to be, what I describe as post-human apocalypse. I mean, we're, we're headed for a future that's not human. That's what the Yuval Noah Harari is out there prognosticating, that in, I think he says in 120 to 130 years from now, there will be no more human beings left on planet earth. So, why am I saying this? Because I'm illustrating that, you go

• 2:48:26Speaker 03

  back in time, you go all the way back to the beginning. If you come from a biblical paradigm like I do, you're, you're the first man, Adam, the prototypical man. He has all of the incredible capabilities that are innate, built into his system. He can, he keeps communing with his Maker, he's governing the earth, he's have, he, he can do all of these amazing things, and then, as we become copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of Adam all the way down, we're loo, we're gradually losing these abilities. But I think that some of them are still, you know, latent in the human species. And I think that explains remote, remote viewing and telepathy and things like that. I don't know how I got on that.

• 2:49:06Speaker 02

  Listen, it makes a lot of sense, and it's a fascinating conversation. And I enjoyed this very much.

• 2:49:13Speaker 03

  I did as well.

• 2:49:14Speaker 02

  It was a lot of fun. Thank you very much for being here.

• 2:49:15Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me, Jim.

• 2:49:16Speaker 02

  Tell everybody if they want to get ahold of your stuff, they want to find you, where they could find you on social media, where they could find your website.

• 2:49:23Speaker 03

  Timothy Alberino on social media, on Instagram, on X. I have a YouTube channel, Timothy Alberino. So I have a book called Birthright, and I also published commentary on, commentary and introduction to the Book of Enoch with my friends.

• 2:49:40Speaker 02

  Oh, Sidonia, we're gonna, we're gonna have to get to that.

• 2:49:43Speaker 03

  That's a whole nother conversation.

• 2:49:44Speaker 02

  Next time.

• 2:49:45Speaker 03

  We're gonna have to have that conversation.

• 2:49:47Speaker 02

  I would love to, I would love to. Thank you very much, it was a lot of fun.

• 2:49:49Speaker 03

  My pleasure.

• 2:49:50Speaker 02

  Bye, everybody.

• 2:50:05Speaker 00

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