#2282 - Bill Murray

Bill Murray is an actor and comedian. He is currently starring in "Riff Raff." Look for him in "The Friend" in theaters on April 4. https://www.riffraffthemovie.com https://bleeckerstreetmedia.com/the-friend Save $20 on your first subscription of AG1 at drinkag1.com/joerogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, thank you for doing this. This is a huge honor for me. I'm a giant fan, forever. Like, since I was a kid, so.

• 0:21Speaker 02

  Well, are we going?

• 0:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're live. So for me, meeting, there's certain people I meet where it's like, whoa, okay. And you're those, you're one of those.

• 0:28Speaker 02

  Well, I have a very different experience. I only know about you what I've heard. I've never, uh, heard your show. I had to ask you, are you Joe?

• 0:37Joe Rogan?

  Perfect.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Somehow I knew you were like in the fitness and everyone out there seems to be a weightlifter. And you're, and you're out, or even Danielle seems like she's, she did lower body today. But, uh, it's, uh, so it's, it's, it's nice to meet you. And people are, are all, you know, there's some people are very, very excited that I've gotten, gotten to come down here to, to be on your show, so.

• 1:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're an interesting guy.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  Other people are concerned for me.

• 1:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really? Are they? Legitimately?

• 1:06Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know if it's the, I don't know why it's the weightlifter thing, because I have no, I have no predisposed, I have no premonitions, but, but when I walk in here and I see, um, I gotta look at that. What is that green?

• 1:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's, uh, the local racetrack. That's the Circuit of the Americas where Formula One races. Uh, it's my friend's place, so he gave me that.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Okay. Um, yeah, I walked in, I saw these Hunter Thompson things. I felt automatically like, okay, well, this guy can't be a complete disaster. And then I walked down the hall and there's Hunter, wearing a hat that I gave him.

• 1:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that hat with, with the gun?

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. The one where he's in a cockpit, it looks like?

• 1:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  That's a dog hair hat. That's dog hair.

• 1:49Joe Rogan?

  It's made out of dog hair?

• 1:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And he got such a kick out of it, because when it rains on you, or snows on you, like it would in, in Woody Creek, you come in the house and you smell like a wet dog. And he loved, like, doing that to people. The people go, what in the hell? And they're like, oh, my dog. You know? That's the dog, right there.

• 2:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  Oh, so this is, are you filming this too? This is whatever you do?

• 2:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, uh, yeah, there he is. There's that dog. It's got, it had like big, like tie things. You could tie it under your chin if it was.

• 2:23Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 2:26Speaker 02

  This is, uh, I, oh wow, look at that one, oof.

• 2:32Joe Rogan?

  Lawyer's guns and money?

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Those are later ones, yeah, he didn't have scopes for a long time.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  That was, uh, he had hearing protection then, too, he was learning.

• 2:44Speaker 03

  Eighty-six?

• 2:45Speaker 02

  Well.

• 2:46Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:47Speaker 03

  No?

• 2:47Speaker 02

  We're all learning something about.

• 2:48Joe Rogan?

  Maybe.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  What, that one there?

• 2:50Joe Rogan?

  Is eighty-six?

• 2:51Speaker 02

  With the dog?

• 2:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's probably, uh, yeah, it was earlier. Blind, Blind Bat, where's that, that's funny. It's a, it's a historic piece, I guess.

• 3:03Joe Rogan?

  When did you meet him?

• 3:05Speaker 02

  I met him, uh, let me drink your magic coffee here, whose coffee is this?

• 3:09Joe Rogan?

  Laird Hamilton's, Laird Hamilton's Superfoods.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  I met him, uh, it was one of those years, maybe it was after my first real year on Saturday Night Live, maybe it was nineteen seventy,

• 3:20Speaker 02

  uh, seven, like the spring, summer of seventy-seven.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Uh, I was asked by Lorne Michaels, the producer of Saturday Night Live, if I would, I had to go to, our season was head-ended, I'd gone to California.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  And, uh, he asked if I would drive his Volkswagen convertible, Bug, back cross-country for him, I'm like, yeah, sure. Well, you know, a week or two later, it was like, where's my car, I'm like, you didn't give me a time limit, you know, I visited people on the way, so I made some stops. I never, I visited my friend, uh, John Thompson in Reno, biggest little city in the world, and we were, you know, threw our cups out the roof and stuff like that, had a really nice time there. And then I wanted to go to Aspen, I'd never been to Aspen before, and so I went to Aspen and stayed at the Jerome Hotel. I can talk like this, because this show is like endless, right?

• 4:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  So, um.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Went to the Jerome Hotel, which was like the place to go back then, and it was off-season, which is the best time of year to go to any resort town is like when all the tourists are gone and the citizens regain control of their town for a while.

• 4:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  So the Jerome Hotel, which would have been full of like knucklehead skiers from anywhere, was only full of like the people that worked the town and lived in the town. And they took over the bar and they took over the swimming pool, which was outside. So that's, I was there and it was just, I remember being there and they were like beautiful girls and this really funny guy. And I didn't know who he was. And we just had the most fun, you know, making girls laugh. That's kind of what, you know, may or may not have been the reason I was brought here, but you know, that's, so we just had the most fun doing it. And then we had this sort of episode where, you know, we, we did an escape act and it was, it had, you know, consequences, you may have.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  I started talking about an escape act, underwater escape act, and I felt like I could do it. And he, you really think you could escape underwater?

• 5:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  And I said, yeah, I think I could do it. I think I could do it. Cause you just, I, so we agreed to, I agreed to be a subject. And you have to know, I did not know who this guy was. I just thought he was like a funny guy, you know? So, and we were like showing off for girls and stuff and being stupid. And it was fun. We were just having fun. So I was tied with socks to a lawn chair and lowered into the pool. But just before I went, I said, hey, just in case I want to take a breath while I'm untying my sock knots, move me over here to where it's like six feet, you know? So if I have to stand up.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  You know, I can get a breath and go back down and continue my untying, you know.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  So I went in and, you know, I was untying and the guy could tie some knots, you know, even with socks. So after a little bit, I thought earlier, you know, maybe I'll just take a quick breath and go back down. Well, I stood up. Well, try it, Joe. Try and lash yourself to a chair and try to stand up.

• 6:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's hard.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Well, I'm a little over six feet, but if you're tied to a chair, you don't get to fully extend

• 6:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  your calves any more than that. So tied to a chair, I'm only like five.

• 6:47Joe Rogan?

  You couldn't get out of one.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Five eight or something like that. And I just, it was funny to see like that camera shot of like, there are people up there and I can't reach them or speak to them because I'm still underwater. So that's when I started to work more feverishly on the knots. And I kind of was going, hey, hey, you know, this is, you know, I'm kind of leaning with my head like, push me down to five feet instead of six feet, you know, so. But he was strong enough and because I was buoyant in the water, he just picked up the chair out of the water. So I lived through it. But it was, it was a funny way to meet someone. And the next day I found out that this was Hunter S. Thompson.

• 7:28Joe Rogan?

  He never asked him his name?

• 7:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  He never asked me my name. I don't know that he knew who I was either, you know? I think he thought I was just a funny guy and we were kind of like holding court and being funny.

• 7:41Joe Rogan?

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• 8:26Joe Rogan?

  And right now AG1 is offering new customers a free $76 gift when you subscribe. You'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drinkag1.com/joerogan. That's drinkag1.com/joerogan. Check it out. Well, that must be fun for you, though. Like, it's, I enjoy when people don't know who I am. Like, it's very rare for you.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  It's preferable.

• 8:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's not, but you have figured out this way of navigating life where, like, you're not a cellphone guy. You probably don't even have email, do you?

• 9:04Speaker 02

  No, I have them, I have these things now, but if you have children, you have to have a, you have to get a cellphone.

• 9:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Because they will not answer a telephone, but they will answer a text. So that's, I had a breakdown.

• 9:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But you've managed to stay blissfully detached in some sort of way.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, my email is AOL.com.

• 9:24Joe Rogan?

  Is it really?

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, that's, that's, that was my concession to it, but.

• 9:31Joe Rogan?

  One of my favorite things you did with Hunter was when, um, it was a feeling of some sort of a documentary or something, or is in a documentary the footage is, and you're going around trying to convince people that Nixon got a bad rap?

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. That was good. We were trying to, we were trying to write something funny. I was with my friend Dick Blisucci on that one.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  And I can't remember, there were like two or three of us that were trying to write this thing. And we rented a, like a Kleeg light, uh, you know, like a big Hollywood premiere, kind of one of those giant lights that they flash up in the sky. You know, you don't even see them very much anymore, but, and we were just outside the Chateau Marmont where Hunter had a room at that moment. And, and we were doing, uh, we were excited because Nixon's back, you know? And we were interviewing alleged people on the street, men on the street saying, what do, what do you think about this? Because it was after Watergate and Nixon had basically burrowed down and, and Hunter had a, like a powerful hatred of Nixon, really didn't like Nixon, of course, but I just remember Dick Blisucci saying,

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm excited. He's tanned, he's rested, and he's ready. I still, I still say it all the time. I just, I say it about myself all the time because I think it's funny. "How are you, Bill?" "I'm tanned, I'm rested, and I'm ready." But saying it about Richard Nixon, I thought, was a really brilliant thing to say.

• 10:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, actually, it became a common phrase.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:54Joe Rogan?

  Like, people use it all the time to this day, probably not even knowing the origin.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 10:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  And it's Dick Bleszuczyk who did it. And, uh, and we, we, we weren't there for like forty-five minutes before, like, "I work in the industry, and I know you have to have a permit to have that light on." I mean, there were people, they came at us. We were, we were going concern for about one hour tops. And that was with, like, professional argumentative people, like Hunter, myself, going,

• 11:21Speaker 02

  "That is a fabulous, uh, watch you're wearing. Where'd you get that?" You know, just anything to keep this thing going and to keep the, the cameras rolling on our super stuff. But,

• 11:32Speaker 02

  and demands. But, uh, yeah, that's, that was one of the things. I had a lot of fun with the guy, really. He, he really was a lot of fun. He really could make a lot of fun.

• 11:42Joe Rogan?

  I really wish I met him. He's one of those people that, "Gah, just really wish I met him."

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Well, you can still read it, you know. There's still so much more stuff that I didn't, hadn't even read then. It just keeps appearing. There are things that are so beautiful that he wrote that, that are good. And, uh, you know, people text me things and say, you know, about what, what's going on, how sort of prescient he was about things, you know, a long time ago.

• 12:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, dead on, about so many things. I mean, you could take a lot of his commentary on politics from nineteen seventy-six and apply it easily to today. You know, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail is one of the best books ever on the American political system, just like what it's like when people are running for office.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, to me, it's a better book. Then Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which is really fun, but

• 12:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  The campaign trail book is so insightful about America and and about Americans.

• 12:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  It's great reading.

• 12:37Joe Rogan?

  No, the movie was fun. Fear and Loathing was fun. It was just, it was a great introduction to a lot of people, maybe, that weren't aware of Hunter. Like, maybe then you'll start reading his, his stuff. But it's, it wasn't all, you know, chaos and acid and seeing lizard people in the, in the bar. It was, there, there was, like, even, there's moments in Fear and Loathing, the movie, where, you know, he, there's this one thing where Johnny Depp is at the typewriter. Or is that in the movie, or is that in, um, the documentary? Where is that the typewriter is talking about how the nineteen sixties, there was this great wave of change.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, the high water mark. You see it on the mountains. It's a beautiful, beautiful piece of writing.

• 13:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:20Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing. It's, and when Johnny Depp is saying, the way he's saying it.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:24Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it's so beautiful and melodic.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Why, why don't you, Jamie, why don't you see if you can find it? It's, it's about the most famous, it's the most famous line in the road. It's beautiful.

• 13:34Joe Rogan?

  Grab the headphones. Let's take this out.

• 13:38Speaker 04

  Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Has it been five years? Six? It seems like a lifetime. The kind of peak that never comes again.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. But no explanation.

• 14:04Speaker 04

  No mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time in the world. Whatever it meant.

• 14:23Speaker 04

  There was madness in any direction, at any hour. You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic, universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. And that, I think, was the handle. That sense of inevitable victory over the forces of old and evil. Not in any mean or military sense, we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave.

• 15:02Speaker 04

  So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes, you can almost see the high water mark. That place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

• 15:27Joe Rogan?

  God damn, that's good. I mean, that is just an amazing piece of writing that so perfectly captured that very strange moment in time where the anti-war, the peace-love movement just got drowned out by the Nixon administration.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  It's a beautiful piece. It glistens your eyes to see it, you know? Not just the thing of Hunter and the words that he said, but seeing Johnny and how close Johnny and Hunter became, how much they loved each other and how much they shared with each other. It's really a beautiful piece, thank you.

• 16:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is a beautiful piece. And it's just so fucking perfect. It just perfectly-

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, he got it. He really got it.

• 16:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It just encapsulates that time, you know? And it's just, thank God there was a guy like him around to document it from that perspective, to give you this insight in that, the way he did it with gonzo journalism, where he just would have real facts mixed in with fiction, and you couldn't tell what was what, and you had to be in on it to understand what he was doing.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, you had to enter the event to comment on it. You had to be a part of it.

• 16:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:48Joe Rogan?

  You played him.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  I did play him.

• 16:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we were talking about it before. I loved it. With the Buffalo Room?

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, with the Buffalo Room.

• 16:54Joe Rogan?

  Was that weird to play your friend?

• 16:57Speaker 02

  It's a lot of responsibility.

• 16:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  I mean, it was, um, any actor that has to play either a living person, especially a living person, or a famous person, has a real responsibility to, to that person, you know, you can't just be that person for ninety minutes. You have to realize that person was that person for sixty some odd years, or seventy, or however many years a person was. You've got to try to get all that into your hour and a half or two hours. You've got to try to take in as much as you can, so you're not lying, you know, at least you're giving the best you can to say, this is who I think he was, this is who I think that person was, she was, he was.

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  Did you run any of it by him? Did you try to talk to him as him?

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Well, he was living in the guest house.

• 17:55Joe Rogan?

  So you were around him all the time?

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I would go to work and I would come home, and then we would stay up and sort of just an hour or so before, maybe an hour and a half before, two hours before dawn, he'd have a Nyquil and scotch

• 18:21Speaker 02

  in the hot tub and then go to sleep. And then I had to get about ninety minutes and then the teamster was knocking on the window, saying, "Bill, Billy!" And then I'd have to go to work. That's what it was like while we were shooting the movie.

• 18:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  And he appears in the movie briefly. He appears in the movie briefly. I can't remember all of it, but he appears in the movie briefly, and we did, together we wrote a scene. I was always constantly changing. Uh, John K. wrote the script, but I was always playing with it and it, because I was always being informed more, you know, and I, that's what I did anyway. I just pretty much, you know, I felt the freedom to change anything. But we did write a scene, Hunter and I wrote a scene that was late in the movie. Pardon me. They gave me these beautiful, massive, uh, things.

• 19:17Joe Rogan?

  Cough drops?

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:18Joe Rogan?

  No, thank you.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he was in on a lot of it and, and, and the editing of it, you know, we, we can secretly say that too. And, and the, and the, um, you know, it was a lot of, um, there was a lot, he was really involved.

• 19:42Joe Rogan?

  Very nice.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  So.

• 19:43Joe Rogan?

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• 22:16Joe Rogan?

  So you're saying he wrote a scene? You guys wrote a scene?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, we wrote a scene together, yeah. Which was encountering Nixon in a urinal. Because he did have a moment with Nixon where you probably know that, remember, yeah. And he was told he could not speak politics, they could only talk NFL football.

• 22:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  Which Nixon was rather, you know, knowledgeable about, you know. Hunter Copter was like, yeah, the guy really studied it. And George Allen, it's in the book, you know, but Nixon even wrote, designed a play that he gave to George Allen, who was the coach of the Washington Redskins back then. And it was like, they lost like 10 yards or something on the play, but Allen actually played, ran the play, Nixon's play.

• 23:03Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. It's just, also...

• 23:07Joe Rogan?

  Insane that they would let Hunter get in a limousine with the president. Like, just that alone. Like, who, you know, who greenlit that? Who thought that was a good idea?

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Well, he'd been on the, I mean, he was on the campaign trail. He also, for whatever he was, the people who knew, and you know, like, Secret Service guys, you ever run into them? They like read people for a living. This is what they do, you know? They read people. And they can really burn a hole through your head and your body, just looking at you. And they'll, they'll give you this one, you know? They'll just really burn you. And, you know, he'd been on the tour, the tour, he'd been on the, on the road with them. They knew who he was. They knew what he was after hours, and they knew what he was during hours, where the people who were really smart knew, this guy's really smart. This guy's really smart. He knows politics.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  And you can't try to dumb down, you can't try to, like, big time him, because he'll kill you. He'll chop you, he's, he's got the words to answer, and he has the intelligence. So he was, he was a force. People knew who he was, you know? Even the, you know, to get information, you gotta go into the people who work for the guy, you know? He, so the people that work for the guy know who he is, and they've already established that they have a relationship with him. They can speak with him. He's talking a certain way. There's a reality check. You know, if you're running someone's political campaign, you have the best jokes about the campaign, you know? Not Hunter Thompson, maybe, but you have the best jokes, because you've seen it all. You know how stupid things get.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  And, and you know, if you can be realistic and savvy about those things, then, then people trust you.

• 24:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's still pretty extraordinary that they also got him to agree, or at least thought he would agree, that he would only talk about football.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Well, he knew if he blew it, that was it. And that was gonna be the end of it. And it was only, you know, I don't know what month it was, but...

• 25:04Joe Rogan?

  There's more coffee in this, if you like.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Oh, is that your stuff?

• 25:07Joe Rogan?

  No, that's everybody's.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Okay, well, I, we'll try to finish all off.

• 25:11Joe Rogan?

  It's hot. I just feel like yours is probably just sitting there for a while.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  I keep coffee for days.

• 25:16Joe Rogan?

  I hear ya.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  At least, at least two days. If it's not hot, it's gotta ice it.

• 25:20Joe Rogan?

  You just keep drinking?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, just keep drinking.

• 25:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  That smells good. What kind is that?

• 25:24Joe Rogan?

  Black Rifle Coffee.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Where's that come from?

• 25:27Joe Rogan?

  Uh, it's an American company, veteran-owned company that, um, made by real coffee nuts that travel around the world and find different blends and different...

• 25:38Speaker 02

  It smells good. There's a lot of coffee you can't even smell.

• 25:40Joe Rogan?

  It's very good coffee.

• 25:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's just that, um, that meeting in the limousine is like one of my favorite meetings. Because it just, you could feel how weird it must have been for Hunter to be sitting in a limo, getting a ride with Nixon, and they're just talking about football, and then they can find common ground.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Well, it's very much like, this is happening, this has been happening in my life anyway, and, and I'm sure it's happening in everyone's life for the last, gotta be ten years, where you meet people, we have something in common, we've gotta, we've gotta, something we gotta get done, you know? But if we talk politics, we're leaving the rails, you know?

• 26:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  All hell's gonna, you know, we're, we're not gonna get along, we're not gonna get anything done. We're never gonna be friends, and, and, you know, it could get, be worse than that. We could be, we could, you know, be adversaries, or even enemies, or...

• 26:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  You know? So...

• 26:36Speaker 02

  That, I mean, it's, you, you mentioned it, it's like, I go places where, and you know, I'm sure you do too, where you just can't talk, you just don't wanna talk politics with people, 'cause there are people that are, you know, whose politics can be the exact opposite of yours. Completely, twelve to six. And yet, there are people that have lived lives that are so extraordinary, and so enormous in terms of what they give to the world and the planet. And you think, how, you know, why would I, like, ever wanna get... How do, it's, it's a mystery, you know, it's kind of a mystery, but it's...

• 27:15Speaker 02

  If you don't like value that first, instead of your kind of political, you know, handkerchief, you know, you're, you're making more of a mess, you know? That's kind of what's, you know, that's, that's what I feel a lot about what's going on in anywhere, everywhere, you know, that people are leading with their, their handkerchief and not their, not with their whole self, you know, what they understand about what living is.

• 27:43Joe Rogan?

  I agree a hundred percent. I think that we're just too tribally divided and people look at it like it's us versus them. They enjoy the comfort of being a part of a tribe. They lock on to whatever ideologies the tribe support and then anybody who opposes that is somehow or another the enemy. And it's just a, it's a division tactic that's been used by the people that actually run the government, the actual world itself. The real people of this world, especially the people of this country have mostly share the same common core needs. You want to be healthy, you want to have a good family, you want to be able to make a living, you want to live in a safe place, you want your kids to be able to go to a good school, you want everybody to prosper and have a good time.

• 28:27Joe Rogan?

  That's most of what life is. All this other shit that people get so goddamn caught up in, most of it has very little to do with you. And you get locked into it like it's 100% of your identity and the next thing you know, anybody who opposes you is Hitler. And it, it just gets.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 28:46Joe Rogan?

  It gets so toxic.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  His name gets me into about a lot lately, doesn't it?

• 28:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a good one.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  You know what, but you sort of started it by saying, by bringing up that quotation of Hunter's, which is so, and, and I think about that all the time. I, I, I can not, but I think about it regularly, like what was that, that force that that movement had, that anti-war movement, whatever that was.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  You know, it wasn't perfect, you know, it wasn't perfect. I think the thing that if if if I had regret anything or anyone regrets anything about it was the sort of hostility that was shown towards the actual servicemen.

• 29:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Most of whom were drafted.

• 29:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  You know.

• 29:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  To fight, you know. So that those service people had an experience that I will never have. I was in a military movie. That's as good as it ever got for me. But there's the thing about being in war together with people is everybody hates war. And who could hate it more than someone that was there?

• 29:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  But the sort of camaraderie that you had is an experience I'll never have that. I'll never have that thing that, you know, Rambo had, you know.

• 29:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  I'll never have that thing. And I don't think that I I I think that the sort of there could have been more vision about who's who we're talking to or who who we're talking to about whatever kind of change you want to make. And so that the agents of it are not necessarily the architects, like you say. The people who are making this tribal thing, they're not the agents of it, you know. They're the architects of it and it's and how do you how do you jump over or how do you you know, you know, excuse or not excuse isn't the word, but how do you

• 30:32Joe Rogan?

  Unite?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Miss the people that are the agents who are just people that have a job or whatever it is. They're they're they're doing their work to survive and live, whatever it is. How do you get to the architects with whatever you feel is a is that a what what could be a shared experience and get them to like sort of dissolve the creation of the tribal tribal world? I think it's it's you you ask a great question, you know, you have people on here, I guess, that know, you know, or think about those things and have the ability to do something about it. I don't think I have. The ability to do anything more than something for myself mostly, you know.

• 31:12Joe Rogan?

  But you do because you have the ability to express yourself and you're an example. And a lot of times when someone is a very reasonable, intelligent person like you and you express yourself, other people get inspired to maybe reexamine the way they're looking at things.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Well, that's a nice hope. I hope that maybe that'll happen.

• 31:29Joe Rogan?

  I think that's maybe one of the only things.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Right back at you then, okay.

• 31:32Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. Because part of our problem in this country is that we're in competition every two years. Every two years you have midterms, elections every four years.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  We don't get a break.

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  No, we don't get a break.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  We don't get a break from these people.

• 31:44Joe Rogan?

  No, we don't get a break. We don't get a break from division.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  We don't get a break.

• 31:47Joe Rogan?

  We don't get a break from propaganda. We don't get a break from new threats. We don't get a break. It's like every day it's a new thing and it keeps us completely in this constant state of stress and anxiety and also this fear of being overcome, like your side's going to lose.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, if I fall asleep too early tonight, I'll...

• 32:11Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna lose the internet.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  I'm supposed to be on watch or something, yeah.

• 32:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a very, very stressful and it's not healthy for human beings to be constantly in a state of competition and stress. It's bad for... And then on top of that, you have, most people are addicted to social media, so you're constantly getting inundated with the worst fucking things in the world all day long and you're freaking out. It's terrible for you. It's fucking terrible for you.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  I mean, that footage made me cry. Now you're gonna make me cry. Okay, no, it's, but it's, it's true. It's, someone's got a, there has to be some sort of a new, I don't know if it has to be a club, but you know, there's gotta be some sort of new, you know, it used to be music. I think music played such a big part of whatever that movement was, whatever you call the peace movement or the hippies or, you know, whatever it was. It was, it was an extraordinary moment in time and the music was part of the, part of the experience and part of the... It brought the message and it's sort of, it crashed through everybody's brain, you know, it wasn't, there wasn't a side to it.

• 33:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  It's like, what were the soldiers listening to in Vietnam? Jimi Hendrix.

• 33:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  You know, you know, we were all listening to the same stuff, no matter where you were.

• 33:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  No matter where you were, you were listening to the same music, no matter what your politic thing was, the music sort of told a story. And sort of suggested a possibility, so.

• 33:36Joe Rogan?

  And the music was so much different than the music of the past.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:41Joe Rogan?

  And it was like, you go from 1959 to 1969, you're dealing with a completely different dimension. And it's because it was all psychedelically inspired. And that was another thing that the Nixon administration did. They passed that sweeping Schedule I Psychedelics Act, made everything illegal, and just threw water on the whole movement. And then everything changes. Then you have the seventies, music starts getting weird, the eighties, it completely falls apart, cars start looking like shit, people start dressing stupid.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Now you're talking.

• 34:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Now you're talking.

• 34:10Joe Rogan?

  It got weird.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  It's a real language, you know.

• 34:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  It's like when, I never tied it all to the, that sweeping thing, but, but when you revisit that, you realize how much harm that did, that, that kind of lawmaking, but

• 34:28Speaker 02

  let's all agree that the cars don't look as good as they used to.

• 34:30Joe Rogan?

  They look like dog shit.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Okay, let's, let's, who's, who are those people that say they're the really good problem solvers? I see them every once in a while and they go like, "How does he do it?" I say, "Well, first I say, what can we agree on?" Okay, so, we can agree that cars don't look so good no more, you know.

• 34:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, they look good now.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  It used to be that every single year, every single car looked different than it looked the year before.

• 34:52Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  And that's mind boggling nowadays to think about that. And even now with it, the cars are made of, I don't know, plastic? What are they made of?

• 35:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're made of shit.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  They're made of nothing. They're not made of steel. They did it with steel back then.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  And now they're made with, I don't know, some sort of carbon something or other, and you would think they would be able to like, I don't know what a 3D printer is, I have to confess. I have no idea.

• 35:16Joe Rogan?

  We actually talked about it yesterday.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  I have no idea.

• 35:18Joe Rogan?

  The biggest one's four feet long.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  The biggest one is four feet long?

• 35:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what Elon was saying.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  So can you make?

• 35:25Joe Rogan?

  You can't make giant things.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  You can't make anything bigger than four feet?

• 35:28Joe Rogan?

  I don't think so. But I mean, maybe there's some like.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Car parts now are. I mean, if you have a car, if you have a fender bender, there's like seven parts that you have to replace. Panels and panels and panels.

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  But that's also because they're better structurally to withstand impact. They have these crumple layers and they're designed in a way that makes it safer for you. They're a lot safer than old cars. I fucking love old cars.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  And the sound systems are better.

• 35:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But new cars look great. New cars are awesome. There's a lot of like really good looking American cars, a lot of really good looking German cars. What happened in the 1970s and the 1980s is a drop off, a significant drop off from the 60s. The 60s cars were some of the best looking cars of all time. Like a 65 Corvette, one of the greatest looking cars the world's ever designed.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  I was a 62 Corvette guy, to be honest with you.

• 36:15Joe Rogan?

  Model one, the first one, generation one. But like, you know, Camaros and Barracudas, like they made beautiful, wild looking cars back then. And I think a lot of that had to do with just the, the, the way creativity was encouraged in the 1960s. It was more free flowing. The music was completely radical and different. Politics is radical and different. And that's why they passed those laws. They passed those laws to stop the anti-war movement. It was civil rights movement and the anti-war movement.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  And the guy they put in charge was a man who had absolutely no qualifications. Who had no qualifications to do any of it.

• 36:54Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kind of a, it's a, I've got a, someone, a friend that's been trying to get me to do a movie about it, but the, the person responsible for making all the laws was someone who had absolutely no background in any of the fields. No knowledge whatsoever, just a total huckster.

• 37:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  That got himself out in front.

• 37:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, they probably had a mandate, they gave them a mandate. This is what we're gonna do, this is the plan. We're gonna lock up all these hippies and lock up all these people.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  I'll carry the flag, I'll carry the flag, yeah, whatever it is, you know? I'll run up the hill.

• 37:23Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Well, I heard that Buick is gonna make a car, and I, this could be wrong, but I heard they're gonna make a car next year that's not gonna look like any car, ever. It's gonna be like a brand-new, whatever the hell, twenty-five or twenty-six Buick, and it's not gonna look like the twenty-four or five, it's gonna look like its own individual thing. That they're gonna try to re- to re- to recommence the idea of making a new car every year. You didn't hear this?

• 37:59Joe Rogan?

  No, like a completely new kinda model?

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, like the idea that you would make a car that looked, didn't look like every, I mean, like, you can look at a car and you go like, that's a Volvo, but that part of it looks like a Mercedes, that part of it looks like an Infiniti, that part of the car looks like, you know, a Toyota, that kinda, you know, they're, they're, it's like-

• 38:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  You've heard probably the story about the, what's that car called? The Ford that's got a animal name?

• 38:24Joe Rogan?

  Mustang?

• 38:25Speaker 02

  Taurus.

• 38:25Joe Rogan?

  Taurus.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Now, there's a story, now, it could be apocryphal, that the Ford Taurus, you never heard this one?

• 38:31Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  I thought you were like, this guy, you had all the information.

• 38:33Joe Rogan?

  The Taurus is a piece of shit, I don't care about Taurus's.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Well, the Taurus, yeah, the Taurus is like, it's not the most beautiful car in the world.

• 38:39Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  But it was a huge seller for Ford. They sold a lot of them, and the story is that these guys at Ford designed a car, and they took the rear quarter panel from this automobile, the fender from this, the back fender from this, the rear windows from this, and just did a composite of all these different cars, and they, and it's, cause the car was, "This car's bullshit," and we'll call it the Taurus. And they presented it to Ford, who went, "We love it," and then proceeded to sell hundreds of thousands of them. And that, this is the story, like, where, where's your phone calls here? Faye, caller number one, you heard about this? No one's ever heard this story? You've never heard this one?

• 39:25Joe Rogan?

  No, I've never heard that, no.

• 39:26Speaker 02

  Well, that's a story.

• 39:27Joe Rogan?

  But I believe it, it makes sense.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  You can believe it if you look at the cars that are, but now, that they are absolutely, like, look at that damn Volvo, it looks exactly like a three-year-ago Mercedes or something like that. They just really just steal and-

• 39:41Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, pull up twenty-twenty-four Shelby Mustang Super Snake.

• 39:47Joe Rogan?

  So there's still

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Better yet, Jamie. Roll it in here.

• 39:50Joe Rogan?

  Just check, check out what this looks like. There's cars that they make today that are unique looking and look badass.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  I wish I'd bought a Shelby back when I first had a paycheck.

• 39:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  They're such beautiful cars.

• 40:00Joe Rogan?

  That's, oh, look at that. Come on.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Well, that kind of funny, funny when I first look at it, it looks a little Chevy to me.

• 40:05Joe Rogan?

  It does a little bit. It could be like a Camaro.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  I mean, look at that. That looks like Chevy.

• 40:10Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's a beautiful car, though, right?

• 40:12Speaker 02

  Well, you know, you could photograph either of us from a certain angle.

• 40:17Joe Rogan?

  No, no, I've seen that one in real life. That's a beautiful car.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Could be, yeah, that's.

• 40:20Joe Rogan?

  That's a beautiful car.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  That's better.

• 40:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and it sounds amazing.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  But I'd hate to hit anything with that thing.

• 40:26Joe Rogan?

  In what way?

• 40:27Speaker 02

  I would hate to bump into anything. It looks like I'd have to.

• 40:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you'd have to replace a lot of shit.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Six weeks.

• 40:32Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Let's see, can you big up that picture there? What's, what's the rear look like? Oh, it's got a spoiler?

• 40:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Come on.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  I, I, how do you feel about spoilers?

• 40:41Joe Rogan?

  Fucking badass. That thing looks awesome. That looks amazing.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Well, I think the original one is like the super coolest car in the world. That's crazy.

• 40:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no doubt. I mean, if you go back and look at like, pull up a Boss 429, 1969 Boss 429. This, to me, is the pinnacle of muscle car design, is the Boss 429. Like, that is just.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  That's pretty good.

• 41:06Joe Rogan?

  Spectacular. Look at that. Look at that.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Well, that's pretty close. Well, that's got that scoop in the front.

• 41:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  That's pretty close to the Bullitt year, right? The Bullitt car?

• 41:14Joe Rogan?

  Sixty-eight, yeah. Bullitt was sixty-eight. I actually have a recreation of that.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  I was watching it the, you know, did you, they found the original Bullitt car? Did you know that?

• 41:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  I was reading about that this week. Cause I saw, it was on TV last week. And I've watched it a lot of times, that movie, cause, you know, I think Steve McQueen's pretty, pretty damn good. But you, when you watch the movie, it's, it's obviously the roaring through San Francisco and all that sort of stuff it's famous for. And then there's the ending where there's, the sort of story ends with kind of a flaming crash, you know? It's kind of, not really kind of an ending in a way, but, but watching it this particular time. It was all the moments in between all that that really make the movie.

• 41:57Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  All the quiet in between where he's in the grocery store.

• 42:01Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  The mailbox, he's seeing these people and these people. And he has this very quiet inner self that's dealing with people very respectfully. And it, and his, his, his blood pressure only moves, the, the needle only starts to move when he gets with the bad guy. Chalmers, who's obviously a, you know, a fraud of some sort. And he's got him like, you see him like, not just as a, an actor keeping his cool, but as like a cop keeping his cool with like a, a person he knows is trying to use him. And that those, those, just watching that part of the performance and that part of the story was much more interesting. The first time I saw all that as its own weave through it, you know?

• 42:41Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  That, that the car stuff had very little to do with what I was getting from, from the people. The car stuff was nothing. And his boss was a great actor, Simon Oakland, I think is the name is. He was great as his boss who said, I'm gonna hold this till Monday morning. You know, that kinda guy.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  There was some great acting in that. It's a really beautiful American movie like that.

• 43:07Joe Rogan?

  I'm so glad you brought that up because it, it's, it's one of the things that I love about that movie and Le Mans, uh, another great Steve McQueen movie. Is that he had these moments and you could do that in a movie back then where no one was talking for minutes and minutes at a time.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  There's a lot of quiet in Bullet, a lot of quiet.

• 43:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:27Joe Rogan?

  It's just, you're taking in this story, but it's very compelling. And sometimes there's not even any music, right? And like in Le Mans, the whole first part of it, there's no talking at all. For quite a while. It's just like you're getting the sounds and the feeling of being this race car driver and he's driving his nine eleven down this country road and, yeah. And it's, it's, it, it engrosses you in a different way. It, it draw, it pulls you into the story.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Bullet where he's writing, what movie is he driving like a dune buggy? Is that Bullet two? Or is that, no, that's the other one, the, uh, one in Boston. That's a pretty good movie too.

• 44:06Joe Rogan?

  Which one's that?

• 44:07Speaker 02

  Oh, come on. They remade it.

• 44:10Joe Rogan?

  Of the Presid- Crown Affair?

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Thomas Crown Affair.

• 44:13Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  And obviously, he's having the time, you know.

• 44:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Why don't we shoot some stuff in a dune buggy? And basically, they had like a whole.

• 44:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there he is.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, this.

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  And he's having a time.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  And meanwhile, he's got Faye Dunaway in there going, I hope that's Faye Dunaway, anyway.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Roaring around and he could really drive, right?

• 44:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  He could really drive a car.

• 44:35Joe Rogan?

  Really drive, like you could really flip one of these fucking things if you're driving like him.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 44:39Joe Rogan?

  You don't know what you're doing. Yeah, he's going sideways.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  And she is, uh, she is having the time of her life. Look at that, spinning it out in the water.

• 44:48Joe Rogan?

  With a movie star who doesn't even have a seatbelt on, probably.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  No, they didn't have seatbelts back then.

• 44:53Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Well, she might have a seatbelt, she looks like she's belted it. But that was cool.

• 44:58Joe Rogan?

  He was like the archetypal, uh, archetypal movie star. He was a movie star, like that one, that guy was a movie star. You know, there was something about him that was compelling. He lived his life in a sort of wild renegade way and drove race cars and he was a man's man. And when you saw him in a movie, you believed it.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Well, I've been watching, um, I've come to be watching all the old cowboy shows on, on the, on the satellite. I watch all the old cowboy shows and Wanted Dead or Alive was always a super cool show. And I've been watching it just to see, what the hell is he up to? Man, he is just, no one was getting away with that. No one was doing what he was doing, which was so small and so slight. He was really preparing himself to be a movie actor, you know, because his, his performance is, is so controlled, he's so in, in his skin, you know? And he's always got like a piece of business to do. He always had a piece of business to do. Like something to do, like the way he like strapped on his goofy sawed-off rifle and stuff.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  It's not even, you know, you keep thinking it's a sawed-off shotgun, it's a sawed-off rifle. You know, so just all his moves were very little. His face gave very, very little away.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  He would pout, do a half pout kinda stuff. And it's just fun to watch him see how little he could do and get it done.

• 46:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Get it across. And I like, I like that about him. But he always had like, he kind of challenged himself to do something physical like, so if he'd be talking to you, he'd be, he'd have just even that, even something like that to be like, you know, come in here, you know. He would just, the way he did it was a guy who had a real natural way with his body. It was fun.

• 46:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, he would just draw you in.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 46:44Joe Rogan?

  In, in all of his films. And just, it's like, in a way that was, it was just different. It's just like it was a different presence on screen.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  There's that guy.

• 46:53Joe Rogan?

  Sawed-off rifle.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  See, it's a sawed-off, it's not a shotgun, it's a rifle.

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  And he had, see that little shtick he's got, he's got it so it locks in and then swings back. So he could actually, if he wished to. You better hope he better not wish to against you two. He could just sort of swivel it and fire while it's still attached to his, uh, his waistband.

• 47:15Joe Rogan?

  I never saw this show. I didn't even know it existed.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  You never saw this show?

• 47:17Joe Rogan?

  I didn't know it existed until right now.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  What kind of a citizen are you?

• 47:20Joe Rogan?

  I am a little younger, that's all it is.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  This is, that's all it is. Well, you can find this, there's these new cowboy shows, uh, channels, there's, you can, there's like four channels. Uh, I have DirecTV and, and so you can go and watch. That, God, that's a famous guy. That's, oh, God. Oh, who's that? Oh, oh, that's killing me. I know who this guy is. Well, I don't know who he is, but I recognize him. Help me, somebody. Who's that guy?

• 47:48Joe Rogan?

  Jamie will find it.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  The, um. Anyway, there's a few channels. There's one called INSP. There's also the Cowboy Channel. There's also Channel, uh, three sixty-four, three oh four, three twenty-three.

• 48:02Joe Rogan?

  Is this?

• 48:02Speaker 02

  Eighty-one.

• 48:03Joe Rogan?

  DirecTV? What is this?

• 48:04Speaker 02

  DirecTV. And they're all, and you can, and I just go through going like, what have I gotta find? So I can see the rifleman.

• 48:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. I remember that. That was a great show.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Also a rifle guy.

• 48:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  But he had a full-length rifle. And that was Chuck Connors, who once upon a time was a Chicago Cub. He's a baseball player.

• 48:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Yes. And allegedly did some, uh, art films. But also, he was good too. Chuck Connors was good. Um.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  The Lone Ranger.

• 48:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  And that was, uh, God, come on. Why can't I not remember his name? But there were some Lone Rangers. The Lone Ranger came on and then the guy, I didn't realize it because there's some Lone Rangers where it's not our Lone Ranger being the Lone Ranger. And who wasn't as good as our Lone Ranger. And then our Lone Ranger comes back and it turns out, I finally figured out that he, he sort of went on strike. He said he wanted a contract raise after the first season or something. They like said, no. They went ahead and made a season with this other guy and people went, when are you gonna kill off the Lone Ranger?

• 49:05Speaker 02

  No offense to that man's family. I'm sure it paid for somebody's college, but.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Oh, come on. I almost had it.

• 49:14Joe Rogan?

  The guy's name? Jamie will find it.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Jamie, you got a lot on your plate.

• 49:21Speaker 06

  I switched over to the Lone Ranger. I was looking at people that were listed here. I'll give you this one better. There's a few people listed here as.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  I actually saw him someplace. He came to like.

• 49:28Joe Rogan?

  Is he one of these names? Michael Landon?

• 49:30Speaker 06

  Landon Warren Notes. I was looking.

• 49:33Joe Rogan?

  Definitely not Coburn.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  No, it's none of those guys. Lon Chaney's misspelled. But it's not those guys. Coburn's in there twice.

• 49:41Speaker 06

  Uh, Lone Ranger here.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  One of these guys, maybe?

• 49:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 49:46Speaker 06

  All right.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  No, see, it started on radio first. That's what you're getting. You're pulling up radio. That's how far back you're going.

• 49:52Speaker 06

  Clayton Moore?

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Clayton Moore, thank you. I saw Clayton Moore. He came to a Jewel food store near us. The Lone Ranger was gonna appear. But he was not allowed to wear the mask for like contract, whatever the hell. So there he was and I'm like,

• 50:07Speaker 02

  Mom, that's not the Lone Ranger. You know, whatever the hell it was. But it was funny to see Clayton Moore without a mask on.

• 50:13Joe Rogan?

  Imagine the contract saying you can't do personal appearances.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  It was like, he was, the Lone Ranger was copyrighted, you know, nine days from Sundays, you know, so he could go and be right on an elephant. I think I may have seen him riding on an elephant in a parade once, but also without the mask on.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  But we, I should talk about movies, because I'm supposed to be talking about movies.

• 50:33Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Since we, we started talking about movies.

• 50:37Joe Rogan?

  Tell me about your movie.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  My, um, I'm, I got two movies. I have three movies. I'll work backwards from the one which is least, which is farthest away. I did one with Wes Anderson called The Phoenician Something. That's the title. It's, you know, I'm sorry, Wes. The Phoenish, you know what it is?

• 50:57Speaker 02

  The Phoenician Scheme. And, um, I'm, I have a lot of trouble with names nowadays, but the guy who did the set design, can you figure that out? This guy is the most famous, he's the best there is now. These are the most beautiful sets I've ever seen in any movie. Um, come on, it's coming. I'm sorry, everybody, but I just haven't been getting enough sleep.

• 51:20Joe Rogan?

  No worries.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 51:21Joe Rogan?

  The power of the internet.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  That's a great movie. That, we shot that in Berlin, and there's great people in it. It's got, uh, uh, I want to say Tashir Mafuni, but it's not. It's the guy who played Che. Come on.

• 51:34Joe Rogan?

  Don't.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  Come on, help me out here. All right, you, for you, look it up. Jim, you get back to us with this. Anyway, that movie's coming in a bit.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Who? Benito.

• 51:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. Benito's really good. He's really good, and he's really cool. And Michael Sarah, right? Is he the third?

• 51:52Joe Rogan?

  Did you say Benicio? Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  Benicio del Toro. Yeah. I said Benito, you said Beni- you said Tommo.

• 51:59Joe Rogan?

  Fear and Loathing as well. He was awesome in that.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  He's great. He's, he, I really like.

• 52:02Joe Rogan?

  He's great in everything.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  He's, are we, are we getting on good?

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

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• 52:48Joe Rogan?

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• 53:29Joe Rogan?

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• 54:03Speaker 02

  And then the daughter, whose name is of Kate Winslet, who is really wonderful. So, the three of them are extraordinary in the movie together.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  And her name is like Cupid or Eve or something. It's crazy.

• 54:17Joe Rogan?

  What's it about?

• 54:19Speaker 02

  I have no idea. Huh? What's her name? Mia. Thank you. See, I told you, Cupid. Something. Mia. I have no idea what it's about. You're gonna have to pay the money. There she is, right there.

• 54:30Joe Rogan?

  A dark tale of espionage followed a strained father-daughter relationship with a family business.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, Willem's got a good part, but it's really those. Keep going, keep going.

• 54:40Joe Rogan?

  Benedict Cumberback?

• 54:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're all fine. Michael Cera. Michael Cera is huge in it. He's fantastic. Yeah, he's a really good guy. Michael Cera, Benicio, and Mia are the really the muscles. And they're great. Anyway, that's gonna be really good. People are, all his movies are like they are. They're all great. And that one's gonna be very good. Then it was gonna be funny, too. Then I made a movie called The Friend.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Um, which stars, uh, uh, what's her name? Naomi Watts. And a dog, there's a huge dog. Are you a dog guy?

• 55:15Joe Rogan?

  I love dogs.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Okay, so there's a massive, really big dog. I mean, it's just, it's pretty much as big. There it is. There's Naomi. And there's the dog. The dog is, is, that is that big. See how big it is?

• 55:30Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking huge.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the words for it.

• 55:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a Great Dane.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Uh, and it's an extra, it's an amazing dog. And the script is great. It's written, uh, the, it's from a book written by a woman named Sigrid Nunez. And can you pop up on the titles there, maybe? Uh, what, what, no, the other thing. Yeah, these guys directed it. These guys. Scott McGee he and David Segal. And they wrote the script from this book. And it's a great script.

• 55:58Joe Rogan?

  Nobody can hear you over there, unfortunately. Nobody can hear you over there. We're gonna have to come back.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  Scott.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Scott McGee he and David Segal wrote the script and directed it. And they're great. I love those guys. They made a few good movies and this one's really good. And this Sigrid Nunez is a kind of a big deal author. People know who she is that read lots of books.

• 56:19Joe Rogan?

  And what is The Friend? What is it about?

• 56:21Speaker 02

  The Friend, well, yeah, there, there you go. It's, so that's the question. Well, that's sort of the puzzle, a little bit of the puzzle of it. So who is the friend? Is the friend, the friend or is the friend the dog? You know, it's, the, the dog is, represents something, you know, so.

• 56:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  It's a little deeper than a lot of the ones we, we get to. But it's, it's really good. It's really good. I like it. It's been to film festivals and people, you know, laugh and cry and the whole thing. Yeah.

• 56:46Joe Rogan?

  How do you pick things to do now? Like, you've, you've done so much. You've, you've had this insane career.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  I'm gonna tell you that, but let me finish the last one because today, now is your show live?

• 56:56Joe Rogan?

  No. No, it comes out tomorrow.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  Tomorrow. Okay, so this, I'm, so that's why I wanted to ask, cause this movie, the third movie, opens today. Which is yesterday. And it's called Riff Raff. And this is a movie that you have to see. You have to see this. This is really something. This is a movie you should take ten of your friends to and go see Riff Raff. It will be, I guarantee you, this one's a party.

• 57:23Joe Rogan?

  Tell me what it is.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  Um, well, there's a trailer for it up there. See, there's.

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  Let's play the trailer.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  Okay, we can do it.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  I wasn't, there you go.

• 57:33Joe Rogan?

  Slap some headphones on.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 57:36Speaker 07

  No slim jumps. Past two hours you've been passing gas like a very sick infant. I gotta breathe all day.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  Sorry, Lefty, I had a lot of coffee, okay? Sorry.

• 57:45Speaker 07

  And then you use my name? Jesus Christ, Lonny. Yeah, you said my name. You catch our names by any chance? Yep, he called you Lefty and you called him Lonny.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  Well, I overreacted.

• 58:01Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 58:06Speaker 07

  Son, we gotta talk about Lefty. What did you do?

• 58:12Speaker 07

  Love it!

• 58:16Speaker 07

  You killed his son.

• 58:17Speaker 06

  They're gonna kill us.

• 58:20Speaker 07

  What are you doing?

• 58:21Speaker 06

  I get horny when I'm scared.

• 58:22Speaker 07

  I'm married.

• 58:23Speaker 06

  Who cares? It's just us and this shitty wildlife, you know?

• 58:28Joe Rogan?

  This is our son.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  We're too young to be grandparents. All because your son couldn't pull out in time.

• 58:36Speaker 00

  We've got house guests.

• 58:39Speaker 07

  I would categorize these as a must-kill.

• 58:44Joe Rogan?

  What are we?

• 58:44Speaker 00

  Family. Oh, my God. Can I get you anything? I'd sell my left tit for an Advil and a cup of coffee.

• 58:52Speaker 07

  You said what?

• 58:58Speaker 07

  Who was first?

• 58:59Speaker 03

  There was this food incident. Rocco put pubes in my wonton suit. If it's okay, I would just really like to torture him a little bit, if it's okay.

• 59:08Speaker 07

  Shouldn't have done that, Rocco. Yeah, knock yourself out.

• 59:11Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Are we all gonna die?

• 59:19Speaker 02

  Have all night.

• 59:22Speaker 06

  Wait for me before you two start hitting each other.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  You know, once you start killing, it sort of becomes your de facto solution for every problem.

• 59:35Speaker 06

  What?

• 59:38Speaker 02

  Get off of me.

• 59:39Speaker 06

  God.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna.

• 59:41Speaker 06

  Come on.

• 59:41Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna, Ruth.

• 59:44Speaker 06

  What's a shame that we're gonna put something that hard to waste.

• 59:51Speaker 06

  Huh?

• 59:53Joe Rogan?

  That looks fun.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, well.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, they gave you too much, as far as I'm concerned, but, um.

• 1:00:01Joe Rogan?

  They always do, though, right?

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  I don't know, some, not always.

• 1:00:05Joe Rogan?

  Not always.

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  But it's.

• 1:00:07Joe Rogan?

  It's common.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  Well, it's kind of nicer to see as a surprise, so.

• 1:00:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, should we not have seen the trailer?

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  It's okay. I mean, what are you gonna do? But it's, some people will think I have, I must see that, but I guarantee you this movie is really, really funny.

• 1:00:20Joe Rogan?

  I love a movie where I don't get to see the trailer. I really do. Where I have no idea how it goes down.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  You could say, oh, yeah, you could not show the trailer. That would be okay. They had, there was one, I saw one that was like, just the first part of that, and then this, they just showed, added this, and I was hoping that was what it was, but.

• 1:00:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it could have been.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  This kind of makes it seem like a little bit, hmm, pustacan, putanaski, you know, just a little bit too much stuff in it, you know, a little bit too much stuff for me. Maybe.

• 1:00:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we could take it out.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  But, anyway, it's good.

• 1:00:52Joe Rogan?

  It looks great.

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Jennifer Coolidge has got some unbelievable things to say in the movie. She's got some amazing things to say, and Ed Harris is really, really good in the movie. Pete Davidson, who I had no idea about, we, we were sidekicks in the movie, and we had a very good time, did some good stuff. This Louis Pullman, who's Bill Pullman's son, is really good, I mean. And Emanuela, she's kind of Italian, pustacani, like that. She's just wonderful and beautiful. And Gabby Union, I call her Gabby, Gabrielle Union. And Miles, whose last name I can't remember, because I just want to call him Miles Davis, but that little kid in there.

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  He's he has a voice, he plays the voice of

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  the Electric Junior Bunny Show or something like that on on Nickelodeon or something like that. He does like weird cartoon voices.

• 1:01:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  So, if you watch a lot of Nickelodeon cartoons.

• 1:01:52Joe Rogan?

  I don't anymore. My kids are teenagers now.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:01:55Joe Rogan?

  I used to. I used to.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  I used to.

• 1:01:58Joe Rogan?

  I could tell you all about Nihao Kylan.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Oh, see, I don't know that one. I guess I, I guess SpongeBob. My brother plays the, the Flying Dutchman.

• 1:02:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  On SpongeBob.

• 1:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  So I watched a lot of that, but that's about it. I don't know. I'm way behind.

• 1:02:13Joe Rogan?

  How do you decide what projects to pick?

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  It's really just what, uh, well, there are certain people, like, um, like with people that I've worked with before, mm, there's some, like Wes Anderson is one, and Jim Jarmusch, and Sofia Coppola are others. And those three people call and say, I got something. I say, I just say, okay, when? You know, that's, because I know, I, I know that they're,

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  I know they know what I can do, and they know they, they look out for me, and they treat people well. I love them as people, and I love them as artists, so that's just a thing. But the other ones are more like, um, are like, uh, uh, you have to read the script, because people, you know, the script is pretty much, if the script's not there, I mean, you know, I can always help improve a script, but if the basic thing isn't there, it's like, I was scratching at one the other day, and I'm writing, and I'm going, what the hell am I doing this for? This is just terrible. Every, every page is like, so, but if it's not good, and usually,

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  you know, you know in like five pages, you know, whether or not to even continue reading the script at all, you know?

• 1:03:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So a lot of it's based on relationships and people that you trust and know.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Only, those are very few. There's only very few people that I have those kinds of relationships with. And I've done like multiple jobs with them and they kill every time. They're good. They're really good. So when they call, it's like, I don't, you don't have to waste my time telling me the story. Just send me the thing, you know?

• 1:03:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  You don't have to waste any time I'm in. You can count on me.

• 1:03:55Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  So that's it.

• 1:03:57Joe Rogan?

  I love that.

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I do too. It's, it's.

• 1:03:59Joe Rogan?

  God, that's such a great feeling when you trust someone that much and you're so enthusiastic about working with them.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it means like great. And you know, like people make the living, the making of a movie part of their living, you know, like Wes is probably the, the most extreme example in that, like we all live in a quasi dormitory, you know, we take over a small hotel in some small, in some city and all the actors and like the key crew live in the hotel. And you come down for breakfast in the morning and people pad down in their slippers and their jammies and they have coffee and stuff and they look at the newspaper and say, what are we doing today? And then they like pad back up the stairs and get on their clothes and they go to work. It's cool. It's really nice. It's really is like what you always thought

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  it would be, like in the old days, like what if we all lived in a dorm and we were just being funny all day, you know, like that.

• 1:04:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What was it like working on Kingpin?

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  Well, those guys have more fun making movies than anyone. They really make it fun. Like I remember like in between shots on Kingpin, we'd be on the side of a road somewhere and it would be like, everybody's got to pick up a rock and we got to throw it at that telephone pole, you know, who's going to hit the telephone pole with a rock. So we would sit there and like, I don't know, a dollar, $10, $100, whatever it was, we're throwing and somebody's got to hit the rock, you know, and then people like pull out cash and pay. Cause it's just like, we just got to keep this thing going, you know, we're not going to let the energy of this thing drop.

• 1:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Just fun. Keep the fun rolling.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Fun, yeah. And just creativity and always being loose and always being physical, always being, you know, connected, attached, you know, not just attached but connected.

• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  And entertaining, entertaining each other, you know, really making this fun. God damn it, we are gonna have fun, or else. You know, if you don't have fun making a comedy, you've just made a bad movie that's not funny.

• 1:06:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it comes off in the film. The film is so fucking funny. It's so good, and it's one of those films, like, if you tried making that today, it would be an uphill trudge.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  Well, you know, and that's like one of those things. They had a moment on Saturday Night Live, an in memoriam thing. They said, oh, so, I was there the week of the thing, and they said, yeah. So and so's working on the in memoriam, and I'm thinking, who's gone? Which reminds me, who's gone, you know? And, no, it's not, it's not who's passed away, it's what we can't do anymore to be funny. You know, and so it was like, all these kinds of jokes. And so it was just a whole clip. I didn't even see it, but I just, I saw a little bit of it being assembled, but it could be forty minutes long. You know, just all the sketches that you, people would, you would get, like, you know, internet responses, like, we're gonna burn down the city in New York.

• 1:06:57Joe Rogan?

  It could be hours long today.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:59Joe Rogan?

  Hours long.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm sure it was forty-five. But it's, but some of the funniest things ever done, you know?

• 1:07:05Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  Like Head Wound Harry, you know, which was one that not many people think about, but how, you know, like, somebody would eject a dog eating a brain wound, you know, like licking, like the blood coming out of someone's skeletal wound, you know? But someone told me on the way here, a friend of mine, a musician named Mike Zito, who said, he listens to your show, he said that you knew Phil Hartman.

• 1:07:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, very well.

• 1:07:30Speaker 02

  What did you do with Phil Hartman?

• 1:07:32Joe Rogan?

  News radio, it was a sitcom we did together.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  Okay, I didn't really watch much of news radio, but what were you doing on it?

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  Ninety-four to ninety-nine, I played the, sort of like the maintenance guy in this radio station, and Phil was the lead anchor, and, yeah.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  And did you resent him because you were doing maintenance and he was the lead anchor? No, so, no, I'm just joking. So, and where was it, was it on CBS?

• 1:07:56Joe Rogan?

  NBC.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  NBC, of course. And so, and he was the news anchor? Well, he's got that crazy voice.

• 1:08:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was great.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:03Joe Rogan?

  He was, we became really good friends. He was a wonderful guy. Um, we actually played one of his clips the other day. We had to take it out of the show, but it was a clip from SNL that you could never play today about a doctor who decided that every child was female and he had to do operations on all of them.

• 1:08:20Joe Rogan?

  And we were like, holy shit, holy shit.

• 1:08:26Joe Rogan?

  And it's like, you know, 90% of his, his births involved an operation that turned, turned into a girl. They were all girls.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  That's funny.

• 1:08:33Joe Rogan?

  It was insane. He was great.

• 1:08:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was really good. He was, I worked with him. I mean, I did Saturday Night Live, I guess, when he was there, but he was in the movie we made called Quick Change. And he was

• 1:08:47Speaker 02

  like sterling silver. It was like every single take was just like perfect.

• 1:08:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  And it was so much fun. And you just go, Phil, that was so great. And go like, he was so kind of modestly proud of like, yeah, I, I felt pretty good about that.

• 1:09:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  It was really nice. He had real, real modesty.

• 1:09:06Joe Rogan?

  Yes, he did. Well, he was a guy who made it late in his career, you know, late in his life. So he was before he was an artist. We have one of his albums out there, um, in the, uh, the other room.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  He was a musician?

• 1:09:17Joe Rogan?

  No, an artist, artist.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm sorry.

• 1:09:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was a musician as well.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Why did I say musician? Oh, you said one of his albums. I, I, I was looking at vinyl today, so that's why it went into my head.

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  It was a cover of, of an album that he drew.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:09:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He was an illustrator. He was brilliant, like really, really good.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  I'd love to see that.

• 1:09:36Joe Rogan?

  And then he was on Pee Wee's Playhouse. Yeah.

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  May he rest in peace. That guy, right?

• 1:09:41Joe Rogan?

  That guy was fucking great, too.

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  And, uh, and the lady, I didn't really watch a lot of Pee Wee's Playhouse, but he was a funny guy, that guy. And, um, his lady sidekick died this week or something.

• 1:09:52Joe Rogan?

  Who was his lady sidekick?

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:09:54Joe Rogan?

  On Pee Wee's Play?

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  I'm not up to date on anything, but.

• 1:09:58Joe Rogan?

  Hey. Um.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  Who?

• 1:10:02Speaker 06

  Lynn Marie Stewart is her name.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:06Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:10:08Joe Rogan?

  Lynn Marie Stewart.

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  There she is, Lynn Marie. See, I didn't, oh, I guess I'd recognize her if her face were bigger, head.

• 1:10:16Joe Rogan?

  So I think Phil, because of the fact that he made it late in life, like, he was just so happy to be there.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  He had perspective, yeah, exactly.

• 1:10:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He had, I mean, I think he was like thirty-seven or something when he got SNL.

• 1:10:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, so it's like, that's the point where a lot of people start thinking, hey, this is never gonna happen for me.

• 1:10:37Speaker 02

  And then he was, you know, he was a hero.

• 1:10:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  I mean, he, he did, he could do a lot of things. He had a lot of chops, he had a great voice, and he could play straight and, um, you know, playing, doing comedy is the ability to play straight, and he could really do it. He could really do it.

• 1:10:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  Well, I miss that guy. He was good. He was a good guy.

• 1:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Uh, yeah, I miss him terribly. That was a, that was a crazy one. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to be more convincing than ever. One wrong click could put your personal information and your identity at risk. So protect yourself with LifeLock. LifeLock helps detect and alert you to threats. And if your identity is stolen, LifeLock will step in to fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Dedicated, US-based, identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored,

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• 1:12:23Joe Rogan?

  or a Zamboni driver, whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search. Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan.

• 1:13:04Joe Rogan?

  That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Because I knew his, I knew the whole family. I knew the wife. I knew the whole situation. He had tried to divorce her a few times, tried to leave a few times, it always went back and...

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's also the guy. He would go back and keep trying to make things work.

• 1:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, he was a very unusual guy. And what a fucking professional. Like, he would make me feel like I wasn't doing enough. Like, he'd have, like, all of his scripts would have tabs for all the scenes that he was in, and then he'd have notes underneath each thing, and everything would be organized. He had a three-ring binder he would put the script in.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  Well, that's going too far.

• 1:13:45Joe Rogan?

  Who would hole punch the moment he got the script, put it in the three-ring binder. Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  See, I didn't have that much faith in the scripts. I knew they were gonna change a lot from Wednesday to Friday. If it was a, if it was a big scene, I knew they would rewrite it the next two days.

• 1:13:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was a lot of that.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  I didn't try, I didn't, because it's hard to unlearn.

• 1:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:14:03Speaker 02

  So, I would not learn.

• 1:14:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  Because if, unlearning is really hard.

• 1:14:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  Like, if you have a sketch that's this long, and all of a sudden it's this long, you got problems.

• 1:14:11Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever met Dave Foley?

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  I think so. He was one of the guys from, yeah, I saw him. He, he goes out with my brother Joel.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  And he sings, they do like an improv thing called Whose Line Is It Anyway?

• 1:14:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  So I never, I only met him recently. I met him recently, I finally saw my brother's show that he goes out with Whose Line Is It Anyway?

• 1:14:33Joe Rogan?

  Right. With Greg Proops and all those guys.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  And they, and they kill.

• 1:14:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  I mean, there's, you know, I knew they were, I knew they were gonna kill, cuz I know how good my brother is as an improviser. He can, you know, if you, if you get good at it, and my brother is really good at it, far better than I, oh, I ever was or what could hope to be. Um, cuz he's really kept at it, and so he really goes and goes hard at it. Um, he's really good at, I knew that they would kill. I didn't realize how much fun the show would be from an audience perspective. Like, they drag a lot of people up on the stage, and I think, well, that can go any way at all.

• 1:15:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  And they managed to get, I mean, the show I saw, they had people in the audience that probably should've been hired. They were, that was funny. But the, there's something about the uncertainty of bringing up someone from the audience that raises the energy level and the expectation and the possibility.

• 1:15:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  And the crowd goes crazy for it. And the, and the actors, the performers go crazy too, cuz it's like, god damn, they just killed us. They just came up here and murdered us.

• 1:15:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  And, and that's where the, that's where the real fun is. So they, they're, they're enjoying themselves.

• 1:15:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a tight show. They've been doing that show for so long, like, their muscles are like very developed, that, you know, their comedy improvisation muscles. They're just so sharp. When you do a show like that on the road constantly, like, you develop a sort of feel for how to improvise and how things can go and...

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  Well, you're fearless, and, uh, you know, you're certainly, anyone that's ever been in that racket knows, you can't be afraid of dying.

• 1:16:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  So, if you're not afraid of dying, let's go. Here we go. And anything, and there's a handful of you, so it's, it's like the Magnificent Seven. If I don't kill you, he will.

• 1:16:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  So, so if I don't kill you, he will.

• 1:16:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  So, it's, it's fun to watch. It was really fun to watch, finally see it live. I'd only seen it on television. To see the live show was cool. I recommend it to... They, they're coming to a town near you.

• 1:16:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  If you're.

• 1:16:35Joe Rogan?

  It's a great show.

• 1:16:38Joe Rogan?

  If they're coming to you. Dave, Dave Foley, who was on Kids in the Hall, was, uh, he was also on news radio.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:16:45Joe Rogan?

  He played, uh, the manager of the station who was in charge of.

• 1:16:50Joe Rogan?

  Steven Root, uh, from Office Space and a million other things, uh, Andy Dick, um, uh, Maura Tierney, Vicky Lewis, Candy Alexander.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  I know a lot of those people.

• 1:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Joe Rogan?

  So that was the show.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  Well, that was, so how, it ran five years?

• 1:17:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, around four years and then Phil got killed and then.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  That's what ended it?

• 1:17:11Joe Rogan?

  John Lovitz, uh, who was a good friend of his.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  Tried to take it over?

• 1:17:15Joe Rogan?

  Took his place. Well, not take it over necessarily. It was a real ensemble. I mean, Dave was really like the main star, Dave Foley was. But it was, um, it just, you know, for whatever reason, the John, I, I, I think the John Lovitz ones were really funny. They were really good, but it was just.

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  It's just different funny.

• 1:17:30Joe Rogan?

  It was just the end of the line. The show was over and it got canceled after the fifth year.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's something about, if it was like that with Saturday Night Live, the fifth year is like, wait a second, high school is only five years. Why, why should, why should this show be?

• 1:17:42Joe Rogan?

  Five years is a long time. It's a long time.

• 1:17:45Speaker 02

  I know. It's amazing to think, we, we thought like five years, this is it, we're done, goodbye, everybody. That was forty-five years ago. Who the hell thought that would happen?

• 1:17:55Joe Rogan?

  I mean, is the, is it the longest running show ever on television?

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  I think the Today Show is the longest.

• 1:18:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is it really?

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:18:01Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  If I had to guess.

• 1:18:02Joe Rogan?

  Certainly the longest running show that's actually entertaining. I mean, SNL's been around for so.

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  Don't tell Al Roker that, buddy. Can I take a break a second?

• 1:18:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  I'll be right back.

• 1:18:13Joe Rogan?

  Take a leak, be right back.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  You're in charge.

• 1:18:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  This table.

• 1:18:16Joe Rogan?

  I'll do a little bit. See you in a bit.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  You have a very, you have so much cool stuff on the walls.

• 1:18:22Joe Rogan?

  Lot of art.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  Do you do shows where you walk around and show all the stuff?

• 1:18:24Joe Rogan?

  No, no.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:18:26Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no. I just, it's personal. It's just for us, for us and the guests.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  Well, there is a photograph in the, in the men's room. I didn't.

• 1:18:34Joe Rogan?

  Which one?

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  Uh, it's Presley and it looks like it's a mugshot.

• 1:18:39Joe Rogan?

  It's a fake mugshot.

• 1:18:40Speaker 02

  It's a.

• 1:18:40Joe Rogan?

  So what it is, is he went to the White House and he met with Nixon.

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Okay, the gun thing where he gives Nixon, he gives him a revolver.

• 1:18:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Something.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  Automatic pistol.

• 1:18:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what did he give him?

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  And Nixon gives him a, a drug badge to be a drug agent. You don't know that part?

• 1:18:56Joe Rogan?

  That's right, I forgot about that part.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  He gave Presley a gun badge.

• 1:19:00Joe Rogan?

  Cause Presley would talk shit about all these guys who are doing drugs, meanwhile, he was high as fuck.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  Well, he was, he was in pain, you know?

• 1:19:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  He was in pain, he had physical pain, he had.

• 1:19:11Joe Rogan?

  What was the physical pain? What was wrong with him?

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  I think he did the splits a lot of times, you know, like Chevy's, you know, Chevy hurt himself falling, you know?

• 1:19:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  People have pain, I, Presley had, I don't know, I don't remember all the facts, but Presley had physical pain.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  And, um, I keep, I don't know what his back or something like this, sacroiliac or whatever the hell.

• 1:19:32Joe Rogan?

  And they got him hooked.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  And so he had like painkillers.

• 1:19:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it's just hilarious that he was the drug guy.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  It is hilarious, yeah, it's, it's, it's like, good, good fun.

• 1:19:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  It's like a great American story and like,

• 1:19:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:45Speaker 02

  You, you just see, the picture, there's a photograph that exists of Nixon handing him the badge and, uh, you know, you can laugh looking at it going, "Right, that's exactly right."

• 1:19:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  But, but, but, uh, yeah, there it is, and there's the damn badge, special assistant. Special assistant. You know what I did see the other night, um, did you ever see Frost and Nixon?

• 1:20:11Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:20:12Speaker 02

  It's a, uh, it's a movie that was made and back in the day after Watergate. Is his name David Frost? He was a British interviewer cat and, um, he staged, he, he had this idea to, he was trying to like, he sort of lost his place in the universe of England anyway, or the world, and he came up with this idea somehow to, to, if he could somehow get an interview with Richard Nixon.

• 1:20:42Speaker 02

  And it's a pretty well-made movie, it's a very well-made movie about it and they paint Frost pretty much as like, maybe what he was like, reminded where, sort of what the perception, my perception is of kind of what he was like. Not a perfect person, but, uh, certainly not, uh, you know, but certainly got some juice, certainly has some, some sort of idea of some, something going on. That sounds very small, but he was a little complicated. That's the cheating word. And Nixon too, and I just want to say that Frank Langella, who I only know from like doing, he was kind of like a Broadway guy and he did some horror movies. He's really good as Nixon.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  Very, very, uh, very, uh, very good as Nixon. And it's just a really well-made movie. And I was, I was up in New York and I thought, you know, I'm gonna find Frank Langella.

• 1:21:36Joe Rogan?

  There it is right there.

• 1:21:37Speaker 02

  And tell him so. There's the guy who I can't, don't know what this man's name is who plays Russ. I can't recall anything. But he's good. And there's Langella playing Nixon. And Langella is really good as Nixon. And Nixon's not easy to do.

• 1:21:50Joe Rogan?

  Does he do the voice well?

• 1:21:51Speaker 02

  He does them well. And you know, when you try too hard.

• 1:21:54Speaker 03

  I'm gonna hear it, Liz. Your personal lawyer came to Washington.

• 1:21:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:21:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:00Speaker 02

  But you see.

• 1:22:00Joe Rogan?

  Pretty fucking good.

• 1:22:01Speaker 02

  It's good. Yeah, he's really good. So I never got around to finding out who, where Frank Langella lived in New York or calling him up. But maybe someone who knows him, listens to your show will say, hey Frank, you got a shout-out today in Texas.

• 1:22:14Joe Rogan?

  That guy's great. He was great as Dracula too.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:17Joe Rogan?

  That whole Nixon Watergate story, uh, I, I used to think about it very differently until Tucker Carlson broke it down for me. Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent. And the first time he ever gets a job as a journalist, he's covering Watergate. The FBI, all the people that were involved in the break-in, FBI people, like it was, it was a complete intelligence operation. Nixon definitely did the things they accused him of. But the whole thing was sort of coordinated by the intelligence agents to get Nixon out of office. Apparently what the story was, according to, I could play you the Tucker thing if you'd like to see it. But apparently what the story was.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  That's okay.

• 1:22:54Joe Rogan?

  It sounds crazy.

• 1:22:55Speaker 02

  Well, it sounds.

• 1:22:56Joe Rogan?

  But the story was that Nixon was digging into who killed JFK.

• 1:23:03Joe Rogan?

  One of the, one of the things that they wanted to set up when he was running for president to make sure that Gerald Ford was his vice president, Gerald Ford was also on the Warren Commission. That they were, he was digging into it and they wanted to remove him from office. They set this up. They framed him. He did it. They got him out of office. Gerald Ford gets in.

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Okay, I got a shorter version.

• 1:23:24Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  Okay, I don't, I, you're gonna take me down to the Kennedy Road and I, you know, where we're going there with that one. I got Richard Belzer tapes I can play for you.

• 1:23:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm a fan of Belzer. I've met Belzer. Belzer, Belzer and I talked UFOs and Bigfoot.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  The new guy is gonna, the renew guy is gonna bring out all the, all the Warren Commission stuff, supposedly release all this stuff that was supposed to, yeah, allegedly is right.

• 1:23:46Joe Rogan?

  But my question is what the fuck is gonna be in there?

• 1:23:47Speaker 02

  Good call on allegedly, I like that, yeah.

• 1:23:49Joe Rogan?

  It's not gonna be, hey, this guy did it, here it is.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  No, here's the way I see the Bob Woodward story. See, you said, you said, I don't know, what did you say first about Nixon? About your way of looking at Nixon? The way I look at Nixon, and part of it is, seeing this, I like this way that, I love the way Langella did this. I thought it was really well done and, and, and he made a character of him, you know, written by a person of him. But to me, uh, I feel, here's what I feel about Nixon, is like, you know, he was hard to care for. He ran against JFK, who was everybody's, you know, my hero and my father actually

• 1:24:32Speaker 02

  pushed me into John F. Kennedy in, in 1960, you know, just pushed me into the crowd, just pushed me up so I

• 1:24:39Joe Rogan?

  So he could touch him?

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  I bounced up against him, you know. Now I'd, now I'd have been wrestled to the ground, but back then you could do that. Anyway, uh, I, you know, I felt like Nixon was, you know, and certainly knowing Hunter and knowing all of the history of Nixon and whatever, Nixon wasn't my guy.

• 1:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, agreed.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  He was not my guy.

• 1:25:00Joe Rogan?

  No, I'm not defending Nixon in any way, shape or form. In fact, I talked about Nixon before, that I think he's the problem with the whole psychedelics drug legalization act of 1970.

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  So, so, but however, when I read Wired, the book written by, what's his name, Woodward, about Belushi, I read like five pages of Wired and I went, oh my god.

• 1:25:23Speaker 02

  They framed Nixon.

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  All of a sudden, I went, oh, my God, if this is what he writes about my friend that I've known, you know, for, you know, half my adult life.

• 1:25:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  Which is completely inaccurate, talking to like, the people of the outer, outer circle, getting the story. What the hell did, could they have done to Nixon? I just felt like, if he did this to my friend like this, and I acknowledge, I only read five pages, but the five pages I read, you know, made me wanna like, set fire to the whole thing.

• 1:25:56Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, see if you can find that.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  Those five pages, I went, if they, if he did this to Belushi, what he did to Nixon's is probably soiled for me, too. I can't, I can't take it. And I know you say, well, you could have two sources and everything like that, but the two sources that he had, if he had them for the Wired book, were so far outside the inner circle that it was, it was criminal, cruel. And, the reasoning for it is that, the most famous person ever to come from Wheaton, Illinois, is John Belushi. The second most famous person to come from Wheaton, Illinois, is Harold Red Grange, the football player.

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  And the third most famous person to come from Wheaton, Illinois, is Bob Woodward.

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:26:49Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  So, there's all my controversy for today. That's all I got. I got a bone about that one. You know, I got a bone for Woodward ever since I read that, those five pages.

• 1:26:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, once you see it from something that you know, you know, once you see propaganda or bullshit from someone that you know, and you see a distorted perception, it really, it opens your eyes to the fact that a lot of the things you read are horseshit.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  I mean, you, like, Belushi made whole, whole, people's careers possible. He made people's careers possible. Mine would be one of them.

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  All, all the people that he dragged to New York, he went to New York first, he broke into New York, he took over New York, and he dragged all, all of us from the second city, you know, to New York. He's the one that got everyone there. And, and there are musicians, and lots of them, that will thank Belushi for the creation of, you know, the revivification of the blues, and for like, the fact that there's like a house of blues chain, that blues players can go and play, and there are all these venues that wouldn't have existed without Belushi.

• 1:27:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:57Speaker 02

  You know, he did a lot of things for people. He did a lot of, there's a lot of people that slept on John Belushi's couch. There's a lot of people that stayed for free at his house, until they made it in New York. And I'm one, and, and any, and any, you know, you know, he died in an unfortunate way, but the man, when he was, he was the, still the best stage actor I ever saw, he was absolutely magnetic, you couldn't take your eyes off him. And he did a lot of wonderful things for your child. He was a short hitter. Guy could only drink like, four beers and he was drunk. So, the idea that he died of an overdose is hilarious. Like, that's what my brother said, he said, "What, do you have four beers?" You know, he's John's dad, "What, do you have four beers?" Because, he was not really much of a drinker, but...

• 1:28:40Joe Rogan?

  But it was drugs, right?

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  It was drugs, yeah.

• 1:28:42Joe Rogan?

  Was it a speedball?

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  It was a speedball.

• 1:28:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What was the...

• 1:28:45Speaker 02

  And it was this, I believe, to my knowledge, was like, the first speedball he ever had.

• 1:28:51Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ. So, what was the Woodward interpretation? What was his version?

• 1:28:57Speaker 02

  Oh, it was just, he was just, he was talking to people like, "Wait a minute, you're telling me that that guy over there, that guy who's that far away from the center of things is telling you the facts about John Belushi? That guy way the fuck over there, is telling you who John Belushi is?" It's like, wait a minute.

• 1:29:13Joe Rogan?

  And he didn't contact any of you guys?

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  Well, I didn't, I didn't want to have anything to do with it. I would, I would have nothing to do with it. I didn't like the, it smelled funny from day one, you know, and, and, you know, Judy wanted people to talk, and I was like, "Mm, sorry. I know, I know where this is going." And it wasn't exactly where I thought it was going. Even worse than where I thought it was going. Even just the title alone, you know. It was just, it was cold.

• 1:29:42Joe Rogan?

  So it's just exploitation of his death?

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  You know, I, I, you'd have to hold me down and burn my feet to make me read more of it. So I couldn't say that it's exploitation of his death. But, you know, guys that write books come up with, you know. Bob Woodward's got a new title every forty-five minutes for another book, you know. So, you know.

• 1:30:09Joe Rogan?

  It's a very disturbing thing.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  It's just tough, you know, it's like, and like, so what do you, you know, that's, he like, he really. In those five pages I read, he tore down my friend with a, you know, I didn't see any. There was no compensation, there was no balance in the, in the five I read. And maybe, maybe I was unlucky, but.

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  Certainly, if, if that much was, to me, was disturbingly ugly and like. Irresponsible to report, and then I, I, I can't imagine that I got, so that I only found out.

• 1:30:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  You know, and I'm sure he's done, Woodward does other things, I've seen him on TV and he can be smart and everything, but. You know, he's gonna have to answer for that sometime for something, you know, I think.

• 1:31:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  You know, it's just like, you don't get a free ride for. Not with my friend.

• 1:31:05Joe Rogan?

  No. Well, you can get away with things a lot more back then when he wrote that book as well. You know, so. There's no other venues for people to express themselves. Back then, it was like, he writes the book, he does the interviews for the book, this is the narrative.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, and Bob Woodward, like. One of the squarest guys in the world, gets to tell the story of what it was like to live in, in New York City in the seventies.

• 1:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:29Speaker 02

  Really? In the late seventies and eighties, like, like he knew what the story was? Come on.

• 1:31:36Joe Rogan?

  It must have been a magical time.

• 1:31:38Speaker 02

  It was cool. It was really fun. You know, it was a smaller city in a funny way. Um, there was a lot more freedom. Uh, and it was, when I got there, the, you know, the town was broke, you know? You know, had the, the, the town was falling apart and, you know, the subways were rough and, you know, people, you know, to me it was exciting. I didn't, what the hell, I know, I came from Illinois, from Chicago, from the suburbs of the city in Chicago. Chicago was pretty, it was a city, you know, and, and in some, it had its, its own hazards, you know, there was some more hazard in, where I lived in Chicago was more dangerous than where I lived in, in, in New York ever, but,

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  but the city was, you know, the phone, the economic part of it and the infrastructure was, you know, like the subways were, you know, people complain about the subways now. It's like, wait a second, the, these subways are air-conditioned and the windows close. Those windows, those, the windows were open, summer and winter, and you either froze or you had like metal shavings dust flying through in the summer with no heat, with no air conditioning. And, you know, if it's 97 degrees out, it's even hotter inside of a crowded subway car, you know, so.

• 1:32:56Joe Rogan?

  That was also back when Times Square was Times Square.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  And it was cool. Yeah, Times Square was, is just as weird now, but it's just a different weird. They didn't, they sort of tried to sanitize it. You know, and it's, it's kind of stupid. Now, I mean, now there's a lot more lights and everything. There's more signs. But the signs were always cool. When they were neon, they were cool.

• 1:33:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  Now there's just these glow lights and they just keep moving and dancing and, you know, it's, you know, people with like, vision problems shouldn't be out and people, you know, who are the people that are supposed to watch out for strobe lights?

• 1:33:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, epileptics.

• 1:33:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, epileptics can't walk through Times Square. And 42nd Street is. It's blah. It's like dull, you know?

• 1:33:35Joe Rogan?

  It's an Applebee's.

• 1:33:35Speaker 02

  Back then, it was like, wow.

• 1:33:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a giant Applebee's.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:39Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant Applebee's with huge ads, giant LCD ads.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  But it was, it was cool back then. You could see stuff. There was real stuff to see. Not that there's, it's, it's still real, but it's just a different real. There's a lot more, it's a whole international world now, which it wasn't back then. Back then, it was just like the street survivors of the city. At the very, you know, the physical center of it. And you saw some amazing things and, and it was alive, certainly alive. Now there's, you know, you're crashing into, not exactly debutante or not exactly like bridesmaid parties, but like, you know, there's people with flags and

• 1:34:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:21Speaker 02

  dragging people around and stuff.

• 1:34:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's always a lot.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  There's a lot to see. There's still a lot to see. It's still, it's still New York City, New York.

• 1:34:29Joe Rogan?

  But back then, having that experience, being in that wild New York of the 1970s and then getting on SNL, how old were you? This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first

• 1:35:14Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:56Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:07Speaker 02

  Twenty-six.

• 1:36:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:36:11Joe Rogan?

  That'd have been a fucking bizarre experience.

• 1:36:15Speaker 02

  Yes, it was. It was a great experience, for sure. And, you know,

• 1:36:22Speaker 02

  you saw, you know,

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  you know, your life just changed dramatically from being, you know, unable to, barely able to pay your rent, or

• 1:36:34Speaker 02

  afford, you know, a car, a telephone, anything like that, you know,

• 1:36:40Speaker 02

  to having a credit card. Like, that was a big thing, you know, a credit card. And a credit card. And, um, you know, we had to, because they wanted a safe, we had this sort of, uh, cab account with a thing called Skull's Angels. There was a sort of company within the yellow cab company called Skull's Angels. And you could call them, and they would pick you up anywhere in the city and take you wherever. And it was just, you just signed your name. You didn't have to have any money. And I had a credit card

• 1:37:11Speaker 02

  and that account, and that's all. And I just went, lived for a couple of years like that. And you just, basically, all you were doing was going to work and going to sleep and going, and then in between, you, in the, in the, when you'd have twelve or fifteen hours where you didn't have to do anything, you'd go like, "Okay, let's go." You know, and then you'd go like, like, anything could happen. Anything could happen, and you could go anywhere in the city, and you sort of had a sort of a thumbprint of okay. You could go into any place, and people would be like, "Come on in," you know? And, uh, you got to, you know, really, you know, I mean...

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  I probably could have done, you know, gotten more out of it, but I certainly got a lot, I put a lot into it, you know, I got a lot, an amazing kind of education, you know, I got amazing education, but I guess that gets back to sort of, I, you know, I got to put my education to use is what I should say, I mean, in this, in this kind of new challenging environment, I got to put what my education had to that point had been to, to use.

• 1:38:23Joe Rogan?

  What was the adjustment like going from being broke to all of a sudden having money, being famous, lived in New York City, trying to make sense of this new reality that you live in?

• 1:38:36Speaker 02

  Well, the, well, I'll try to do them in order, well, going, being broke was, oh, I should tell you, I'm here in Austin, Texas, this is, this is a William Murray golf shirt, I brought, I brought you, somehow I got involved with this clothes, the clothes got involved with me, and, and that, that's me, that is I in that person right there, and I brought you a pair of shorts.

• 1:38:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:38:59Speaker 02

  I also brought licorice, which you don't want.

• 1:39:02Joe Rogan?

  He's a licorice dealer.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  I don't know what to make of you.

• 1:39:06Joe Rogan?

  Trying to pass out licorice.

• 1:39:08Speaker 02

  Um, anyway, so anyway, the shorts are very, you're not too chubby, but the shorts are, are very forgiving, um, they, I actually, I ran out of shorts. I've been traveling, well, there's, yeah, they're kind of golf, so are you a gray, are you a gray guy?

• 1:39:24Joe Rogan?

  I can wear gray, yeah, sure, I'll wear that.

• 1:39:25Speaker 02

  That's what I thought, I thought you'd be a gray guy, those are for you.

• 1:39:28Joe Rogan?

  Thank you very much.

• 1:39:29Speaker 02

  They've got my name on them, so if they get lost, they'll be returned to me.

• 1:39:32Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 1:39:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:34Joe Rogan?

  Thank you very much.

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:39:36Joe Rogan?

  I'm excited.

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  And wait, I got your shirt, I thought you might like this shirt, because this has, this kind of has the range of possibility on it.

• 1:39:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:39:44Speaker 02

  It has lots of, that kind of has a sort of a studious look for you.

• 1:39:48Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot going on in that.

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  There's a lot going on.

• 1:39:51Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  There you go, there you go.

• 1:39:53Joe Rogan?

  Thank you very much.

• 1:39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're welcome, I had, I have long pants too, if you want some long pants, but I think you're more of a shorts guy.

• 1:40:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm good, thank you though, Jamie's a gigantic golfer.

• 1:40:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah? Yes, sir. Are you a long, how, you're tall, how tall are you? Six one. Six one.

• 1:40:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:40:09Speaker 02

  Well, it's not that tall. Let's see, so you could, so you, so we're the same sort of, and so you like white or blue? Or black? Those are shorts. Hold on, are you a shorts guy or a long pants guy?

• 1:40:22Speaker 06

  I like it all. It's usually hot in Texas.

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  You love it all, huh?

• 1:40:25Speaker 06

  It's hot out here to play golf in Texas.

• 1:40:27Speaker 02

  It's hot?

• 1:40:28Joe Rogan?

  Texas gets hot and you're playing golf?

• 1:40:30Speaker 06

  Usually.

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  I bet, well.

• 1:40:32Speaker 06

  But you can play all year here.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  How chubby are you?

• 1:40:35Speaker 06

  I'm not.

• 1:40:37Speaker 06

  I don't think it.

• 1:40:39Speaker 02

  Okay, well, the pants are pretty good. Well, here's the, you want the shorts?

• 1:40:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, give him the shorts.

• 1:40:43Speaker 02

  These are black.

• 1:40:44Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  And that's the Murray tartan right there. That's the family tartan there. There you go.

• 1:40:49Joe Rogan?

  Is that like from your family seal?

• 1:40:51Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 1:40:51Joe Rogan?

  That the tartan is a special to your family?

• 1:40:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the Murray tartan.

• 1:40:56Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:40:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:57Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, and then so here, and then so you want a shirt?

• 1:41:03Speaker 06

  Shirt?

• 1:41:04Speaker 02

  Let's see, I should show off this shirt. This is a shirt because my sort of brother has something to do with this one. This has got like all this stuff from Chicago on it.

• 1:41:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  It's got, I haven't even looked at this yet.

• 1:41:14Joe Rogan?

  Guitars?

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  Well, there's guitars.

• 1:41:17Joe Rogan?

  Looks like a pizza place?

• 1:41:18Speaker 02

  Sort of, I don't know why there's tambourines and stuff on it. I have no idea, but there's always a glass of beer for some reason.

• 1:41:24Joe Rogan?

  There's a drum.

• 1:41:25Speaker 02

  But there's a bunch of references to people we know and things we did in Chicago and I see there's like the names of some character in a movie I played and then there's sleuth's place. That's my friend Jeff Sluman who's a golfer. I think you're gonna like this shirt here, Jamie. How's that for you?

• 1:41:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's perfect. That's Jamie.

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  Okay, what color pants did I throw at you?

• 1:41:45Speaker 06

  Well, I got some black shorts over here.

• 1:41:47Joe Rogan?

  Perfect, black shorts, dark blue shirt, you're in.

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  You can pull that off. There you go.

• 1:41:51Speaker 06

  Fuck yeah, Jamie.

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  Way to go high for that one.

• 1:41:52Speaker 06

  Thanks.

• 1:41:53Joe Rogan?

  When you stomp Tony Hinchcliffe in this inevitable match.

• 1:41:56Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, let's go.

• 1:41:56Joe Rogan?

  You'll wear that. Be perfect.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  There's that.

• 1:42:00Joe Rogan?

  How long you been golfing for?

• 1:42:02Speaker 02

  Well, the question is how long was I, have I been caddying for? So I started caddying. When I was very young, my, our eldest brother Edwards started caddying.

• 1:42:13Joe Rogan?

  So Caddyshack must have been a lot of fun for you then?

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, Caddyshack came, you know, my brother Brian was the, wrote the, Brian wrote it with Doug Kenny, one of the really great funny guys from National Lampoon, and Harold Ramis, who ended up directing the movie. But all the golf stuff is all Brian's, you know, memories of caddying. The whole golf story comes from Brian, sort of. They, I mean, they all write jokes, but Doug was in charge of all the fancy lad stuff. His dad was some sort of tennis pro sometime or other in Ohio. And Harold wrote the jokes that were left and shaped it and directed it.

• 1:42:52Joe Rogan?

  So you started off caddying?

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I started as a shag boy, which doesn't even exist anymore.

• 1:42:57Joe Rogan?

  What is that?

• 1:42:58Speaker 02

  There's a thing called a jam boy, which I don't know if it really exists. My friend Duff insisted, back in the day, there was a thing called a jam boy who walked around,

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  I think it was a slave or something like it, who, who walked around covered with jam to draw the insects away from the golfers. Now, I don't know if that's true or not.

• 1:43:17Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit.

• 1:43:17Speaker 02

  Ask your, ask your listeners. But I was, I was, I didn't have it that bad, of course, but a shag boy was, golfers had what they called a shag bag, which was like a small bag of golf balls, like a hundred golf balls or something like that. And they would dump them out on the practice tee and you would run out there with the bag and they would, you would be the target. Okay, go out about seventy yards, sixty yards, you know, and then they'd start hitting. See, no, but see, that would be safer than what I was wearing. We didn't have that. But I was just out there, see, can you, yeah, but I was definitely out there and they would aim at you. And the thing was, it would last for an hour or so, and you know, you're only, I was ten when I started doing this.

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  So you sort of, your mind would wander and occasionally you'd hear like a ball land next to you or really close. I never got conked exactly on the head, but I definitely got hit on one bounce, uh, on any number of times. But you were just a target and then you they he waving the next club and you go like seven iron so he'd have to back up a little farther and then farther and the bigger the club the wider the dispersion of the of the ball so you had to run back you really had to run to catch up to where this bad golfer was hitting the golf ball so that's that was when I was ten and then like a year or so later I became like a caddy and then I caddied all the way through high school pay my way through high school.

• 1:44:42Joe Rogan?

  When did you start playing?

• 1:44:44Speaker 02

  Well, if you if you showed up to caddy on Sunday, you were allowed to play golf on Monday morning so probably I didn't really play golf golf like that until really twelve maybe um maybe a little sooner or later but we used to play golf across the street from our house there were it was like a a line of telephone poles planted in grass, you know, and we would play from phone pole to phone pole and that was the that was the pin.

• 1:45:12Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:45:13Speaker 02

  So but so that's it and then I didn't really play I mean that once I sort of you know made it through high school I didn't play for a long time until I I made some money and then all of a sudden you can play golf again because golf if you're not caddying it takes money to play you got to at least play and be organized and have a set of clubs and stuff so I um I picked it up then and and now I like it you know I was gonna give it up a few years ago but then you know all of a sudden my son started playing golf and like well that's what you gotta do you know I so now I'm having more fun playing and I've gotten smarter do you ever play golf?

• 1:45:53Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:45:54Speaker 02

  Never?

• 1:45:55Joe Rogan?

  No, never. No, I'm scared of it because I think it'll eat up all my time because I get addicted to games.

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I play pool a lot.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  Do you have a pool table here?

• 1:46:08Joe Rogan?

  I got a couple of pool tables here.

• 1:46:09Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:46:10Joe Rogan?

  I got one at home, yeah.

• 1:46:11Speaker 02

  And what games do you play? Do you play like straight pool?

• 1:46:15Joe Rogan?

  Nine ball, ten ball.

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  Nine ball.

• 1:46:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:18Speaker 02

  You know I should work on nine ball I have a pool table I mostly play with you know I mostly play with.

• 1:46:22Joe Rogan?

  The thing about it is I know everybody who plays golf gets fully addicted to it and loves it to death and I just don't have the time to get fully addicted to another thing and you know just being friends with Jamie and seeing Jamie's addiction.

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  See what's happened to him?

• 1:46:34Joe Rogan?

  Over the last few years he's become a maniac he's got a golfing simulator in the back and.

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:46:40Joe Rogan?

  He drives balls and oh yeah.

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  A Trackman, it's in here?

• 1:46:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:46:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's set up in the garage and whenever I come here.

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  Do you live here? Do you guys live in this building?

• 1:46:51Joe Rogan?

  No, we don't. It's a big building, but we don't live here. We could, we definitely could. Maybe that's the next one. Maybe the next one will set up dorms.

• 1:46:58Speaker 02

  Maybe, yeah. There's always the rooftop.

• 1:47:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:02Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I guess, well, I don't want you to get addicted.

• 1:47:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, I just, I've heard you're a very good golfer. That's why I'm asking.

• 1:47:09Speaker 02

  Well, just keep that light going. But it's, but I can play okay, you know, I've hit a lot of golf shots.

• 1:47:16Joe Rogan?

  What's like your handicap, Jamie? Well, I know what that means.

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  No, it's about 12. The lowest I ever was was about 7. Pretty good if you can play. Yeah. Means I can play a little bit. And now it's actually, it's, what's the word, diminishing? It's going lower. Cause I've figured something out. There's a, I went to, there's a great book, these ladies. I got Pia Nielsen and Lynn.

• 1:47:41Speaker 02

  Pia Nielsen's an easy one to remember, but Lynn, whatever Lynn's last name, they wrote a great book called Every Shot Must Have A Purpose. Did you ever read that one? Well, I should talk about them because they're, they're, they really are on to something. And it's about quieting your brain when you play. Which I always thought I'd get better when my, as my brain softened. It seemed to be happening. My brain was softening. It was maybe getting better, but not fast enough for me. And then I got, I started following what these ladies had to write. They were Annika's teachers at one time and Annika Sorenstam, she's a famous golfer.

• 1:48:14Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  Swedish.

• 1:48:16Joe Rogan?

  Every shot must have a purpose.

• 1:48:17Speaker 02

  And there's the forward by Annika. Anyway, Lynn Marriott. How can, see, I'm blocking that because it's a hotel name. But, and I, and I, I didn't used to be a member of Marriott Club, but, okay, so that's a great book and they've written a bunch of stuff. That, they, they're, they know some stuff. You should try that one, Jamie.

• 1:48:36Joe Rogan?

  What does it change?

• 1:48:37Speaker 02

  It made me enjoy, I enjoy golf. I've always had a lot of fun, but that made me enjoy golf even more.

• 1:48:43Joe Rogan?

  How so? Like what is it?

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  You know, it just, it's decluttering, you know, it's like when you do it in your life and you, um.

• 1:48:53Speaker 02

  You know, you talk about, you know, you've mentioned distractions at the very beginning, you know, you think about all the things that can catch you, you know, to distract you.

• 1:49:07Speaker 02

  And if you're trying to do something that's pretty straightforward, whether it's stir grits, or sew a line of something, or play a game of golf, in which ideally you only have to swing, hit the ball like seventy-five times if you're, you know. If you, everything that distracts you from that is a, is a problem. So it's the ability to, like, sort of just pull weeds out of your head, as I read a Japanese man say once. And, and, and attend to it when you attend to it.

• 1:49:49Speaker 02

  It's, you know, it's a few hours to play a run of golf, like you say, it takes a little time. But the actual playing of the game is only minutes. The actual hitting of the ball is only minutes. Like, an NFL game could take like three hours on TV, but it's like twenty minutes of action.

• 1:50:05Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:50:07Speaker 02

  So it's similar to that in golf, that, or anything, that you have to sort of return to yourself to hit the ball. You gotta come back, get it back together to hit the ball, or do anything. And so you set your, you have the freedom in between the shots to move and to speak and to tell jokes and smoke cigars and whatever the hell you wanna do. But when you wanna hit the ball, this is about, you gotta, you're gonna think, make a little plan, and you separate that. You sort of inculcate that, you take it in, and then you separate that and you step up and you hit the, hit the thing. And hitting the thing is only hitting the thing.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  And that, if you can do that, then you start having real success with the actual hitting. And the sort of joy of the sort of mind-body connection and all this sort of aesthetic, all the kind of like, you know, almost spiritual things about a... A mind-body exercise, a game, comes to you, you know, like, you know, when you're a great athlete, say, they're in a zone, they're not in a zone, they're really conscious, they're really connected, they're really aware. It is, it's more than a zone, it's, it's like the ideal place to be.

• 1:51:28Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. And what is it about their writing that helped you, like, what is their philosophy that helped, like, steer you more towards being able to do that?

• 1:51:38Speaker 02

  Well, for, for an example, it's like, something that can keep you in your body, because you have to stay in your body. I believe, I believe that anyway, I already believed that, but it's like, so you've got this dreidel here, right? So imagine it's a golf ball. One thing that they sort of say was like you would, you would just, in between shots, you would just take your golf ball, if you're on a putting green, or if you have a spear in your pocket, and you just toss it up and catch it, toss it up and catch it. That keeps, keeps you, like, physically aware of, I've got to do this, and this, and that. I've got to do these two things, so I've got to have my attention in my body.

• 1:52:20Speaker 02

  I've got to stay home, you know? So if you can stay in your body, it all begins in the body. Everything we are, or everything we hope to be, everything we dream about, it's all within the skin. So you've got to stay within the skin. So if you can make yourself come back, if you can get yourself back inside, you don't have so far to go to achieve your intended goal.

• 1:52:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:47Speaker 02

  You don't have to, you don't have to, like, drag yourself back from outer space. You're not dreaming over there. I'm in my body already, so I'm close, you know? Does that make sense, Jay?

• 1:52:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:52:57Speaker 02

  So, and, you know, I've had some discussions with Pia, and she says, well, that's what the great golfers are doing. They are pulling themselves back into this thing. That's why they hit so many good shots, is because they... Their home, you know, their home. And so that's, that's sort of what I got out of her and I, I sort of learned and believe that from other venues, but I'd never had it put in with practical applications like, like she gives, they give for golf. You know, you think of golf as like, oh, I can be willy nilly out here and I can be fun or I can be aggressive or I can be competitive or whatever the hell.

• 1:53:39Speaker 02

  All that stuff is real, that's emotion kind of thing, but if you're not in the body, good luck.

• 1:53:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  And it's only luck.

• 1:53:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's, there's a great joy in things that take you away from the rest of the world because they require so much of your attention. That's what I get out of pool and that's what I get out of archery too. I practice archery, but there's things that require so much focus while you're doing them and you have to be in your body. You have to, you have to be synchronized.

• 1:54:10Speaker 02

  I, I would imagine archery would be one of the more challenging ones.

• 1:54:13Joe Rogan?

  Very challenging. It's very challenging because it's, you have, you're supposed to have as little movement as possible upon the execution of the shot. And so there's all these strategies.

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  They started televising it lately. It's really cool to watch. It's very cool to watch. And they've got them, cameras are right on their face and, and just the torso, just like this and you're like, God dang, that's beautiful. That's as good a close up as any Robin Hood movie ever had. It's just great.

• 1:54:40Joe Rogan?

  No, I love watching it. I watch it on YouTube all the time. There's these Las Vegas shootouts where they have three targets and they have 30 different shots. So they have, they're trying to get an X 30 different times and they're standing next to the best archers in the world. Everyone's at probably like 20 meters and they're all just focusing, like dead still, completely calm, focusing, focusing.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Where do you find that?

• 1:55:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you can find it like, go to Lancaster, archery, Vegas.

• 1:55:13Joe Rogan?

  Uh, and they, they have what they call a Vegas face. So a Vegas face is three targets.

• 1:55:18Speaker 02

  Do people watch that live?

• 1:55:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:20Speaker 02

  But they've gotta have like big screens, because you can't see the faces from a distance, right?

• 1:55:24Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:55:24Speaker 02

  And you don't want to get between the arrows, of course.

• 1:55:26Joe Rogan?

  No, you definitely don't. People bring binoculars. All the

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:29Joe Rogan?

  All the archers have binoculars and they'll pull them up after each shot, because they're looking for precise distances and then they'll make slight adjustments on their scope and their sight and move and then he'll take a breath and con- but it's just

• 1:55:42Speaker 02

  So do you have one of those, masivo?

• 1:55:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes, this is exactly what it's like.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  Those things don't even look fair.

• 1:55:47Joe Rogan?

  So these guys are all on this line and they're all firing and the amount of pressure is insane. Because really, the guy who makes money out of this thing is the guy who wins first place. Everything else is not so good. There's not a lot of money in archery. Look at the audience.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  That is like about 60 guys.

• 1:56:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not a lot of audience, right?

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not a crowd pleasing.

• 1:56:06Joe Rogan?

  So this is just for real, complete archery fanatics who are absolutely lost in this connection between your mind, your body, and the flight of the arrow. The mystical flight of the arrow.

• 1:56:20Speaker 02

  That's interesting. Can you go back and freeze that? There. Can you, can you lose the line on the bottom? So that's just interesting to me to look at.

• 1:56:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:29Speaker 02

  Like their weight balance. Just to look at like who's on his, sort of half his front foot.

• 1:56:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  So it's interesting. They have a little bit more weight on their back foot. Is that right?

• 1:56:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, we're catching this in, in mid-draw, so he might settle. Yeah, see that guy that you were looking at who was like that? That's got brazier on his back. Watch. He'll settle, so he'll draw and as he draws, he arches back and now watch, he'll settle forward. See, he's settle, he was settling as the, the angle changed of the camera shot. But they want to ideally be about 50/50 and you're just staying calm, keeping it as steady as possible.

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  Is that guy in the wheelchair shooting too?

• 1:57:07Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes. There's a guy that shoots with just his feet. A guy who doesn't have arms. And he's unbelievably accurate.

• 1:57:15Speaker 02

  I think I've seen that guy.

• 1:57:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he shoots with his toes. So what these guys are doing is it's just a perfect balance. of technique and focus and attention and they're actually trying to get what's called a surprise shot. They're not executing the shot like you would like a rifle trigger. Most of these guys use what's called a hinge. And so that's what they're going for. They're looking for, so with a hinge, you don't, you don't make the hinge, you don't make the release go off like with a button, where you press a button. It's just a rotation of the handle and you don't know when it's going to go off. So you draw it back like this.

• 1:57:54Speaker 02

  So you're not like letting go with your fingers?

• 1:57:56Joe Rogan?

  No, no. You have a metal release in your hand that has a hook and the hook is attached to a sear.

• 1:58:02Speaker 02

  And so by, by just twerking your wrist, rotating it?

• 1:58:06Joe Rogan?

  It breaks. And so the, the hook breaks. And so, see the, or some of them use a thumb, like that guy with the yellow and black, that guy. So he's got a thumb trigger. So what he's doing is he's setting the trigger, the barrel of the trigger, right where his thumb is, and he's just using the pulling of his arm to make it go off. He's not executing it with his thumb. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Look, it's good to prepare for the future, but when you start over analyzing what's happening around you, dreaming up every hypothetical situation of what could happen, that's when it gets dangerous. You can start to hyper fixate and stress out and all over things that haven't even happened.

• 1:58:47Joe Rogan?

  That's no good for current you or future you. If you're struggling to stay in the present and out of your head, try talking with a quality therapist from BetterHelp. They have psychologists, family therapists, marriage counselors, social workers, and more. Whatever you need to work through, BetterHelp can match you with a seasoned professional with the specialty that you need. BetterHelp is now a network with more than 125 health plans with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. And if you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the US, you can still get 20% off your first month. Sign up and get 20% off

• 1:59:32Joe Rogan?

  at betterhelp.com. That's better H E L P dot com. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high.

• 2:00:16Joe Rogan?

  It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. Now, there's a small select group-

• 2:00:40Speaker 02

  So that's why they all look different when they're on the release?

• 2:00:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:00:43Speaker 02

  I wondered why they all-

• 2:00:44Joe Rogan?

  But they all-

• 2:00:45Speaker 02

  Some guys look like it exploded.

• 2:00:46Joe Rogan?

  Their arms all fly backwards. If you watch, see how their arm moves backwards? That's indicative of a surprise shot. That means they're executing it perfectly. So as they're pulling back-

• 2:00:56Speaker 02

  So the surprise is that they don't know when it's gonna go?

• 2:00:57Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. They're just executing the technique, which is the pull with the back muscles, you're pulling with your rhomboids, and then it slowly goes off.

• 2:01:05Speaker 02

  So now like that chubby guy right there.

• 2:01:06Joe Rogan?

  See like that guy with the hat, the black hat? Watch. See his fingers, how it's curling? See how it goes off? So that's just from his hand curling that's making the shot go off.

• 2:01:15Speaker 02

  But they get it to the position or the area where it's gonna go.

• 2:01:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  And they've gotta be right. They've gotta be-

• 2:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:23Speaker 02

  Poised forward.

• 2:01:24Joe Rogan?

  But the idea is- If you think about it going off and you make it go off, there's some sort of a recoil. So there's some sort of an anticipation of that recoil. And when you're shooting that precisely, that anticipation of that recoil might make a difference of an inch or two left or right. Yes, that tension.

• 2:01:41Speaker 02

  So you try to not anticipate.

• 2:01:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:44Speaker 02

  So it surely does surprise you.

• 2:01:45Joe Rogan?

  When you are doing that, you do not think about anything else. It clears your mind. When you are just concentrating on that target, you cannot think about your bills.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  And so you do it.

• 2:01:59Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:59Speaker 02

  And when a thought does come into your head, you don't hit the target.

• 2:02:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes, but it doesn't come in your head. It can't. It's too hard. The process of aiming is so engrossing. When you lock in place and you're aiming and then you're pulling back with the shot, like you're all in. You're all there, especially if you're good. If you're good, that is the only thing you're thinking of. And there's a moving meditation aspect to it, a cleansing of your mind. Your worries go away, your thoughts, the things that are bugging you and I gotta do this and I gotta call that guy back and all of it goes away. Because it's so engrossing. It requires so much.

• 2:02:40Speaker 02

  So how do you affect that yourself? How do you move that away from the incidental thoughts that pop in?

• 2:02:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just the difficulty of it. Yeah, the difficulty of it actually sort of facilitates your meditative mindset. Because if you're gonna do it right, there's no other way to do it. You literally can't be thinking about other things while you're doing it.

• 2:03:05Speaker 02

  Well, it's not unlike golf. Like if you're thinking about what you gotta pick up on the way home.

• 2:03:10Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:03:10Speaker 02

  You're not gonna hit a good golf.

• 2:03:11Joe Rogan?

  Same as pool. When, you know, I play pool at a pretty high level, like I bet that book would be very beneficial to me. I bet there's some techniques and strategies of how to focus yourself and completely remove yourself from the rest of the world and just think about this mind-body connection and this, the execution of this thing that you're trying to do.

• 2:03:33Speaker 02

  Alright, I'm gonna try to do that.

• 2:03:37Speaker 02

  I know, I, I, I, you know, I don't play enough pool. And, but I did, I had to, I had to shoot some pool in Groundhog Day. So I, I got with like a guy who's a pool expert and he just gave me drills to do.

• 2:03:51Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember his name?

• 2:03:51Speaker 02

  No. But, um, if he remembers, he should say hi. Anyway, he taught me a bunch of things. And I was very, I'm still very disappointed because when I, we actually shot the scene. I think I made, I think I sank.

• 2:04:06Speaker 02

  I think I shot, I think I sank like nine balls and, seven balls, eight balls in three shots. And I went.

• 2:04:15Speaker 02

  We got that and the, and the, and the cinematographer was like.

• 2:04:19Speaker 02

  Alright, well, let's, let's set it up here. I'm, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll set up a different shot. I said, what are you talking about? He had half of the table.

• 2:04:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:04:29Speaker 02

  Alright, I'm gonna take a leak again.

• 2:04:31Joe Rogan?

  Okay, you wanna wrap it up? We can wrap it up.

• 2:04:33Speaker 02

  No, that's okay.

• 2:04:34Joe Rogan?

  Okay, alright, take a leak and come back. Alright.

• 2:04:37Speaker 02

  I keep asking them, "Any suggestions?" They say, "Well, tell some stories."

• 2:04:42Joe Rogan?

  You should never ask for suggestions.

• 2:04:43Speaker 02

  So where do you come from?

• 2:04:44Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I was born in New Jersey, uh, went to high school in Boston, lived all over the country. Lived in San Francisco for a while when I was a kid, Florida.

• 2:04:53Speaker 02

  So, were you military or something?

• 2:04:55Joe Rogan?

  No, um, mother got divorced, married my stepfather, he was going to school. Went to San Francisco for that, and then Florida, and then eventually Boston.

• 2:05:07Speaker 02

  Well, that's pretty good. I mean, I think, I always wanted to live in San Francisco.

• 2:05:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, I was in San Francisco during the Vietnam War, in the height of the hippie days when I was a little kid. It's pretty wild. It was a very interesting time to, to be there, you know? It was a crazy place.

• 2:05:22Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, well, that's what Hunter was talking about, I think.

• 2:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:24Speaker 02

  Ben, yeah, my brother was there too. He went to school out there at St. Mary's in Maraga.

• 2:05:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:05:29Speaker 02

  And so, but it turned out he was spending a lot of time in Berkeley.

• 2:05:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  He wasn't doing that much studying, but he, but what a life he had out there. What a fantastic time to have been there. And my other friend went to high school at that time, somewhere around there, and I, I, I envied that. And I, I, I really liked San Francisco and I, I was there recently.

• 2:05:53Speaker 02

  I saw Dr. Um, not Dr. Father Guido Sarducci.

• 2:05:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:05:58Speaker 02

  And had, uh, had, had dinner with he and with, with him and, and, and Roman Coppola. And we went to an old place called like Macaroni or something like that. Old Italian place and it was really delightful. What a, I just love San Francisco and I have friends who were like, and we, we started talking about politics a long time ago, like for political reasons, they all have San Francisco, they've ruined San Francisco. I was like, well, and so I was there and I know there's homeless people in San Francisco now, lots of them. And there, and there's homeless people in Los Angeles and Santa Monica and anywhere that is warm.

• 2:06:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  Especially, and California is the most populous state, but I don't think it's a, I don't think it's a political choice. I mean, I think, isn't it, I don't know the stats, but these people don't, it's more of a mental health thing.

• 2:06:48Joe Rogan?

  It's definitely a mental health issue.

• 2:06:50Speaker 02

  It's not anybody's politics that are making people crazy.

• 2:06:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's.

• 2:06:54Speaker 02

  But it's not making people live on the street, but I don't know, I just, I'm sticking up for San Francisco saying it's still, I mean, San Francisco survived the beatniks, it survived the hippies, it survived the earthquake, it survived AIDS, it survived.

• 2:07:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:11Speaker 02

  Everything. It's like a resilient, extraordinary place, you know?

• 2:07:15Joe Rogan?

  It's still got a lot of extraordinary aspects to it. The problem is they kind of encourage people to, to sleep on the streets and shit anywhere they want. And they didn't do anything about it and it just got a little crazy.

• 2:07:24Speaker 02

  You really think they encourage people?

• 2:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, they did. They definitely make it financially viable for them to do it. They give them money to do it. They, they, they, they allow them.

• 2:07:31Speaker 02

  Well, that sounds like they're paying them to shit on the street.

• 2:07:34Joe Rogan?

  No, they're paying them so that they don't have to be poor or homeless. I mean, they have a tent and they, they'll help them, they'll subsidize this, this existence. What they need is more mental health care.

• 2:07:44Speaker 02

  But is it, but a second ago, we've.

• 2:07:46Joe Rogan?

  It's drug addiction and mental health. That's, that's the real problem.

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:49Joe Rogan?

  And when you don't address it and then you just allow people to camp anywhere that you want, you're almost sort of encouraging mental health problems to be everywhere, all throughout and just be throughout the entire city. It's just a lack of empathy for the people. If, if you're empathetic for them, you don't let them just camp out and shit on the street. What you do is you try to say, hey, obviously we have a real problem. This needs to be addressed for the greater good of the city and for these people. They they need mental health care, they need addiction care, they need, it's a a real problem that needs to be addressed, you can't just leave them out in the street and let them do whatever they want and become a hazard for everybody else, then it makes the city kinda fucked up.

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know what the, I mean, you know, when you talk, when you speak, it's be, it sounds like more of a political choice.

• 2:08:36Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:08:36Speaker 02

  Someone's saying, well, it sounds like you're saying they're being, you know, paid to shit on the streets and be, and become mentally ill.

• 2:08:44Joe Rogan?

  I'm not saying they're being paid to shit on the streets, they are mentally ill.

• 2:08:46Speaker 02

  I always felt like mental illness happened first before living on the street.

• 2:08:49Joe Rogan?

  Unquestionably, unquestionably, it's all during the Reagan administration when they opened up the mental health institutes and just let people out in the streets.

• 2:08:54Speaker 02

  Well, it started before that in New York, and that was my experience in New York, was, um, like Rockefeller, way back when, and I could be wrong, but this is how it was attributed, sort of opened up the mental, closed up the mental health hospitals and pushed these many, many, many people out on the streets.

• 2:09:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:13Speaker 02

  That had nowhere to, nowhere to go, and it wasn't like, it wasn't a poverty situation, although it looks like it when you look at it, it's really a mental health situation. And a great number of these people have no interest in going into a place.

• 2:09:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:09:30Speaker 02

  They would just as soon live on the street, their life is like an interior monologue that they can't control, and, and living in a home is no different than living on the street, the thing is still going on, the conversation is still going on inside the brain.

• 2:09:44Joe Rogan?

  But there has to be a solution for it.

• 2:09:46Speaker 02

  Well, okay, but, so, I don't disagree that

• 2:09:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:09:49Speaker 02

  there has to be a solution, but I don't, I don't think that people are, this is sort of like where, you know, I'd like to think about, let's not talk politics, let's agree like what we can agree on. So, that solution is like, this is where the great minds of California, or the United States, need to come together and say, okay, these are, why don't we solve these problems that are common to every, every state has a city that has X number of people living on the street, whether it's Yankton, you know, whether it's, you know, Minneapolis, whether it's, you know, Louisville, whatever, everyone's got like a street scene situation that's rough like that.

• 2:10:34Speaker 02

  And it's hard to say, let's, you know, you say there's gotta be a solution. Where's it, where's that gonna come from? And who's gonna believe it? From, if it comes from this direction, or that direction, or this side, or that side? How do you, how do you like evaporate the walls of separation? And say, like, how do we get, how do we get the right people with the right minds to solve these questions? You know, these are, these are real things. And, and people argue about them. When, I mean, you and I are, are, you know, arguing, but we're talking about.

• 2:11:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  And neither one of us is sleeping on the street.

• 2:11:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:11Speaker 02

  We both feel compassion for it, you know, and empathy for it. But, but how do you get people that are far removed? And we could say, we're far removed from it, to like allow the solution to take place?

• 2:11:27Joe Rogan?

  From one side or the other?

• 2:11:28Speaker 02

  From one side, any side. Who gives a damn who's got it right?

• 2:11:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, it has to be a completely bipartisan thing. We have to look at it in terms of the health of human beings in our community. Right? This country's supposed to be our community. These people that are on the street, that they are sad, sick people in our community. And some real effort has to be taken to try to change that, instead of just enable them to keep doing it. That's all I'm saying. I just don't think that the solution is let them camp wherever they want, let them shit in the streets.

• 2:11:55Speaker 02

  You can't argue, I'm not, there's no argument to what you're saying.

• 2:11:57Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, I don't think you are arguing.

• 2:11:58Speaker 02

  So, you, you were in this situation. You had this, you know, people call it a, a platform, or a, a place where you invite people to come here that are, that can speak to lots of people.

• 2:12:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:14Speaker 02

  How many people watch your show?

• 2:12:16Joe Rogan?

  A lot.

• 2:12:17Speaker 02

  So, there's lots of people watching your show. And when there's people that make sense, you hear it, it rings a bell. You know, it sounds, it sounds like that. I wish I knew the answer to, to, to solving these things. And occasionally, like I say, you see people who are these problem solvers. And the problem solvers come.

• 2:12:39Speaker 02

  But, you know, people want to choose their own problem solver, you know, it's uh, I don't know.

• 2:12:43Joe Rogan?

  There's also money in being a problem solver, that's the problem. One of the parts of the, big parts of the problem in California in particular is that there's an enormous budget to deal with the homeless. So you have these people that work in these departments that are making quarter million dollars a year, that are just working on the homeless problem which keeps getting worse every year. There's no incentive to fix anything or change anything, and it's a bunch of bureaucracy. There's a lot of bullshit that gets involved in the, the business. I, a buddy of mine is a lawyer who went to San Francisco and, you know, he was disturbed by it all. He's like, this is so crazy, like, what, what is missing? Do we need more funding? And they're like, no, you know, and this guy explained to him, no, they literally have uh, an incentive to keep the homeless problem.

• 2:13:26Joe Rogan?

  There's an enormous number of people that are making a fantastic living and dealing with the homeless issue.

• 2:13:31Speaker 02

  Who's making money on the homeless?

• 2:13:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a, there's a giant list of people, we could pull it up if you want to save. We don't need to call them out, but there's, there's a bunch of people.

• 2:13:39Speaker 02

  Just tell me, like, who, who makes money on the homeless?

• 2:13:41Joe Rogan?

  The people that are involved in these organizations that are dealing with the homeless, whether it's in Los Angeles or in San Francisco.

• 2:13:48Speaker 02

  You mean, are they, like, government?

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:13:51Speaker 02

  They're all government?

• 2:13:52Joe Rogan?

  It's government jobs, yes. It's all funded by the state. And there's real jobs, like, real money, and nothing gets done, nothing changes, in fact, it gets worse every year. Something needs to be done that shows results, like, what is that? I think it's gotta be compassionate, it's gotta be something that both the left and the right can agree to.

• 2:14:08Speaker 02

  Okay, so, here's, so I'm trying to follow you. God knows I'm trying, so.

• 2:14:12Joe Rogan?

  Are you having a hard time?

• 2:14:13Speaker 02

  So, no, no, I, I think, we were talking earlier about, uh, the agents versus the architects, or something like that, you used a word that explained, like, the people who are like, coming up with this sort of thing, it's like, you know, I was watching something, and I've really tried to avoid watching the news lately, but I saw someone talking about, and it was, uh, someone that works, and, you know, you say the word bureaucracy, and it's, it's a loaded word, and everyone, and we all hate bureaucracy, there's just a word of it. Gives you like, a creepy feeling.

• 2:14:44Joe Rogan?

  Frustrating word.

• 2:14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so, you know, it's like being on hold for Amtrak, or whatever the hell it is, you know, you know, there's someone, you know.

• 2:14:56Speaker 02

  Oh, please, God, come back. Okay, so, please, God, come back. And so the idea that, and so this person was talking about the cuts that are gonna come and to talk about eliminating a bureaucracy. And I don't know what particular department this person was in or not.

• 2:15:13Joe Rogan?

  No, that's not what this person was talking about.

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  But she was saying-

• 2:15:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're talking to a different person?

• 2:15:16Speaker 02

  It's a different person. I don't know what your person is. This is my person. My person is saying the bureaucracy is like, the bureaucracy gets sort of like fed from above somehow or other. It's fed by these people that are the architects of one side or the other. But the actual bureaucracy includes the people that can solve the problem. Like, encased in this bureaucracy are people that can solve the problems. And that if you just sort of, you know, I'm not saying this is the case, but if you sort of just like zip a bunch of the bureaucracy out, you run the risk of zipping out some of the people that actually have the brains to do the solutions. And that, and what this person

• 2:15:59Speaker 02

  said was, the solution to the bureaucracy is within the bureaucracy that is finding the people that know what they can, what can be done, because they really do have the data. They really do work. They actually do show up for work. And they actually have the data on how to do this thing. But because it keeps being fed from above all the time, there's just all this extra debris and noise that keeps coming down that causes more clutter and more splitting and more something.

• 2:16:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:36Speaker 02

  So, you know, I'm not gonna suggest that I could solve the question of bureaucracy today, but I think there's something about what we have. We have the people. You know, I'm gonna go off on tangents now, but I always kind of had an objection to Tom Brokaw's book, The Greatest Generation, because I thought, like, damn it, that's not my generation. Why, how do they get that? You know, but I did start reading some of it recently. And he's, to his credit, he's finding people that are very singular in that generation that-

• 2:17:12Joe Rogan?

  Which generation is he referring to?

• 2:17:13Speaker 02

  Well, he's talking about the generation that won World War II.

• 2:17:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:17:17Speaker 02

  And that generation was formed by the Great Depression, you know, that was part of what they had. And then they had a world war that lasted five years. And it's really hard for people of a certain age to understand, you know, like you think you have problems with your relationship. Have your, have your, your lover go away for five years and see how well you're doing upon that person's return.

• 2:17:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:42Speaker 02

  See what the hell that's like for five years and like, you didn't answer my letter? You know, my letter?

• 2:17:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:48Speaker 02

  Your letter? What letter? You know, that, your letter never came. You know, I was under fire, whatever it was.

• 2:17:54Joe Rogan?

  And then they come back shell shocked.

• 2:17:55Speaker 02

  And then you come back with shell shock on top of it. And then back then, the sort of, kind of, I don't want to say the macho thing, but back then, people just didn't want to talk about it, which to me was the, what is part of what created the hippie generation was kids couldn't get their parents to talk about anything that they thought mattered.

• 2:18:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:16Speaker 02

  They, what their parents were talking about was like, huh? Wait, what about peace, love, what's so wrong about peace, love and understanding?

• 2:18:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:25Speaker 02

  Right? So, and they couldn't get to that because even the idea of peace was a completely different concept to someone that lived through a world war.

• 2:18:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:36Speaker 02

  Or lived through a depression. So the, these kids were like, I don't even understand who these people are. I know they're flesh and blood, but I don't know that. I don't know what the hell they know and why they're this way. But he chose people that very, that lived a very intentional purpose in, during that very, very difficult, challenging time where they just went, I don't know what I don't know, I don't know what all this is, but I do what I do know, I do know what I do know, and stay through that. And that's, I guess that, I don't know how this relates me to this idea of bureaucracy, but people that do know the facts have got to stay with the facts, even in the face of

• 2:19:17Speaker 02

  like, all the blunderbussing above about, you know, there's this and there's that. You've got to be really dedicated to what you do know and, and realize that there's lots that you don't know, but if you give up what you know in the name of

• 2:19:37Speaker 02

  You know, jostling over here, you know, then, then, there's even more lost.

• 2:19:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. No, I, I agree. And I think most people get involved, particularly if they get involved in something like homeless, or, you know, any, any charitable organization. Most of the people get involved aren't doing it cynically. They're not doing it to get that big paycheck. Their initial reason for being involved in something like that is to help. The problem is sometimes when they realize it's just a big clog and you're not going to be able to do any meaningful good. Then things get weird. And then you just sort of exist off of this system that's not doing anybody any good. This is his argument about why so many people are working on this and nothing's getting better.

• 2:20:23Speaker 02

  Alright, so who's this one?

• 2:20:24Joe Rogan?

  My friend Coleon Noir. This is my friend who's a lawyer who went to San Francisco and, and saw this.

• 2:20:31Speaker 02

  And so...

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  And had a conversation with someone who's actually in government in San Francisco and was explaining what the problem actually is.

• 2:20:40Speaker 02

  And the government, people say it's just, it's the government?

• 2:20:43Joe Rogan?

  No, they just say, there's no incentive. There's no incentive for them to do a better job. And there's a very compassionate perspective in the city. They're very kind people and they don't want to take these homeless people and remove them. And that this sort of suicidal empathy that they have for the people in their city is causing this rash of tents everywhere and crime and, you know, you can't, you have to leave your fucking car unlocked, otherwise they're gonna smash your windows. And it's just, that's what his perspective is. It's that there's no real incentive to do anything different because these people are still getting paid to keep it the way it is. It's not, the amount of money they make is not based on how much good they do.

• 2:21:28Joe Rogan?

  So like if, if they're financially, if they're incentivized to like, you get paid more if more people clean up, seek treatment, get, get on medication, get to a mental health institution. If you can show some sort of progress, it'll affect how much money you get. And vice versa. If you do, if you have no progress and nothing gets done and the problem actually gets worse, perhaps you're not doing a good job.

• 2:21:54Speaker 02

  Well, that sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

• 2:21:56Joe Rogan?

  It does.

• 2:21:56Speaker 02

  If you get results, you know, you, you get encouraged by getting more money. But...

• 2:22:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:01Speaker 02

  So, does this remind you of anything?

• 2:22:04Joe Rogan?

  It reminds me of everything. It reminds me of the government itself. What does it remind you of?

• 2:22:09Speaker 02

  Well, I feel like there's something hanging over our heads here that's like this situation, and maybe it's just a continuous situation of like a world that gets more and more people all the time. And more people want to have a voice and there's just more people shouting all at once. And there's not quite the same kind of agreement. We don't have like an ideal that we're all working for. You know, I guess, not to like cheat, but you know, the greatest generation, they had to fight a war to maybe save the sort of structure of Western civilization.

• 2:22:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:48Speaker 02

  And there is that argument, you know?

• 2:22:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:50Speaker 02

  That if the Nazi party had defeated England, that, you know, you know, life would be different. Life would have been different, you know? And if that kind of dictatorship kind of world had gone further, you know, that we'd have been, it would have been a different world. It wouldn't have grown the way it is. But now it's grown. There's this freedom. The war was fought, I believe.

• 2:23:19Speaker 02

  There was a great quote in one of those books, like, "There's no such thing as a bad peace," or something like that. There's all kinds of different, but I feel like this, like there's no sort of idea that we can agree, that people can agree on that's the source of like a reason for our being.

• 2:23:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a very uniting thing to be all together against a common enemy that is real, like World War II. Like, there's a real purpose to life. People understand that this is a very important mission. This is something that unfortunately, it's one of the best ways to unite people, is a threat from the outside.

• 2:24:02Speaker 02

  That's all we've come up with.

• 2:24:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what happened after 9/11. Do you remember 9/11? Everywhere in LA, people driving around with American flags on their car.

• 2:24:11Speaker 02

  I'll never forget 9/11. What it was like to walk down the streets of New York after 9/11. There was nothing like I've ever experienced in my whole life.

• 2:24:17Joe Rogan?

  Right. It was bizarre, but it was also very united. Like, people were together.

• 2:24:21Speaker 02

  It was. People looked into each other's eyes. You walked by someone on the street, and every person on the street looked right in your eyes. And that lasted for weeks.

• 2:24:30Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:24:31Speaker 02

  I never, I mean, people in New York walk with their head down, they look like, uh, uh, they're reading the paper, but people just looking by like, okay, we're in this.

• 2:24:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, together.

• 2:24:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:41Joe Rogan?

  And I think some people actually obviously hated the act of what happened, but loved the way people reacted and how people felt with each other. It did feel different. New York City felt friendly. It felt united. It felt like people were proud to be American. We were all together. There's bad people out there. They did this to us, but we're all together.

• 2:25:04Speaker 02

  Well, okay, so what we have here with the situation of like, just using San Francisco as the idea is like, it's just a gentler version of something that we could all say, this is something that we have to

• 2:25:15Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:25:16Speaker 02

  go to war about.

• 2:25:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it's a task. Yeah.

• 2:25:20Speaker 02

  Any, any kind of a problem that we have as a group that we all are affected by

• 2:25:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:25:25Speaker 02

  or care about.

• 2:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's too easy to ignore. It's too easy to just say, oh, there's the tents, let's go this way. And the, the reality is, the health of the community, i- i- it's dependent upon the health of the lowest members of the community on the social rung. The lowest members are the people that are sick. And if you don't take care of them, if you don't take care of the people that are mentally ill, that are homeless, that are addicted to drugs, that are on the street, that are desolate, that don't have friends, don't have love, don't have structure, don't have anything that they can call upon, horrible childhood, the whole deal. If you don't, if you don't look at them, then your society's sick. Because this is the, the foundation of the society is the people. If you've got a group of people that are part of your community and you're completely ignoring their plight, that's not good for anybody. That's not good for big business. That's not good for the

• 2:26:10Joe Rogan?

  common folk. That's not good for people in the neighborhood. It's not good for anybody. And it's gotten so far because it's so big now. The problem is so enormous, it's almost too big to tackle. It's almost like, okay, you're dealing with LA, you're dealing with a hundred thousand people living on the street. That's so many fucking people. That's the entire population of Boulder. That's Boulder, Colorado, in tents, on the street, in LA. That's crazy. It's almost too big. And I talked to Mayor Adler, who is the mayor of Austin. At the time when I first moved here and he was he had a bunch of plans in place to help the homeless people and they did an amazing job because it got pretty bad here during the pandemic.

• 2:26:49Speaker 02

  I remember there being homeless here, yeah.

• 2:26:50Joe Rogan?

  They they got hotels, they put people up, they put together programs, they got people jobs, they they there's a company that we've had. What is his name that we Alan that we had in here Alan Graham? Uh from Loaves and Fishes who we went I went and visited his community they set up he has this this community where they uh build houses for these people. They bought an enormous piece of land outside of Austin and he sets up work programs for these people, gives them a sense of purpose. It's an amazing place to be they're doing art and selling art.

• 2:27:24Speaker 02

  It's working?

• 2:27:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it's working. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't work with everybody, but it works with a lot of them. And these people, they have a sense of community. They all live in a safe area and you know, we walked around, I brought my kids, we walked around there. It was like the whole thing was really nice. It was really wonderful. It was really cool what he's doing.

• 2:27:43Speaker 02

  Well, how did that? Well, so that guy, his plan, his way of working needs to obviously get out there.

• 2:27:48Joe Rogan?

  Scale up, yeah.

• 2:27:50Speaker 02

  It's got to get around. So how?

• 2:27:51Joe Rogan?

  He lives there. He lives there. And this is a guy who has money. He lives in the community with those people.

• 2:27:58Speaker 02

  This man must be deputized.

• 2:27:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a Christian, like a real Christian, like in the greatest sense of the word. Like he's a guy who really believes in reaching out to people and helping people. Uh this is yeah, this is Alan right here. He's just a wonderful guy, like a really beautiful person and lives with these people. They're his neighbors and they're constantly bringing people in and he has all these different programs that people can sign up for to learn arts and crafts and learn how to sell things that you've made and it's really cool. And you know, I mean, he's doing his part. He he's it's small in relation to like the problem of San Francisco or but you need people like that that really dedicate themselves to it.

• 2:28:40Speaker 02

  Uh yeah, I've heard of Loaves and Fishes. That this sounds I I didn't know all of this about.

• 2:28:44Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty amazing. It's a pretty amazing uh place that he's got. And he's expanding it. He's, they're, they're building new ones right now. So there's this small houses that these people live in and they all have like a community kitchen where they can go and barbecue and grill outside and there's an arts and crafts center. These people, they, they make cool chess pieces and they sell them. They make paintings and they sell them jewelry. They're doing all these different things and they, it gives them a sense of purpose.

• 2:29:09Speaker 02

  You gotta get this guy to San Francisco.

• 2:29:10Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Well, you need more people like him. That's what it is. It's just, he's a very unique guy.

• 2:29:15Speaker 02

  There gotta, there must be people.

• 2:29:16Joe Rogan?

  There must be. But you, you mean, it's a lot. I mean, he lives with them. I mean, he's in the community. Has one of those little houses in this, you know, giant area filled with people. And he's with them for encouragement and, you know, it's, it's a beautiful thing.

• 2:29:31Speaker 02

  It sounds really amazing.

• 2:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's beautiful.

• 2:29:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:29:37Joe Rogan?

  Should we wrap it up, Bill Murray?

• 2:29:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay. I'm sorry I kept you so long.

• 2:29:40Joe Rogan?

  No, it was amazing. It's an honor to meet you. I really enjoyed it very much. And, uh, I appreciate talking to you. Thank you. And thanks for the shirt and thanks for the shorts.

• 2:29:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, well.

• 2:29:49Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna wear those.

• 2:29:51Speaker 02

  Okay. But, you know,

• 2:29:54Speaker 02

  I, I will just say that those shorts are very, are they're forgiving shorts. So if you've had a big meal.

• 2:29:59Joe Rogan?

  Good. Beautiful.

• 2:30:00Speaker 02

  They still fit you.

• 2:30:00Joe Rogan?

  I like that.

• 2:30:01Speaker 02

  They're good.

• 2:30:03Joe Rogan?

  Can people buy these?

• 2:30:04Speaker 02

  Can they?

• 2:30:05Joe Rogan?

  For sale?

• 2:30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, they sell them. Um, it's called William Murray Golf. They sell them, uh, they sell them online a lot and they, I know they sell them, um, they sell them in the golf shops some places and some stores. There, that's, that's I right there.

• 2:30:20Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful.

• 2:30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:21Joe Rogan?

  That's it.

• 2:30:22Speaker 02

  Well, look at that guy.

• 2:30:23Joe Rogan?

  Look at that. Look at that handsome fucking model.

• 2:30:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a model.

• 2:30:26Joe Rogan?

  That's a good looking fella.

• 2:30:28Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 2:30:28Joe Rogan?

  Let's get loud. All right.

• 2:30:30Speaker 02

  I may be a model too. Hey, he's definitely a model.

• 2:30:33Joe Rogan?

  He's beautiful. Well, thank you very much. I really enjoyed it.

• 2:30:37Speaker 02

  Stay here.

• 2:30:37Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:30:38Speaker 02

  Enjoy it. Thank you for having me.

• 2:30:39Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.