Resetting Your Nervous System When You're Anxious, Hurting, or Just Powering Through | Johanna Franzel

How to calm down fast with an 'inventory' practice, how to build 'resources' you can call on anytime, and why 'healing' might be the wrong goal to chase. Plus, living with autoimmune disorder, writing as a practice of embodiment, and why white-knuckling isn't worth it. Johanna Franzel https://www.johannafranzel.com/ is a teacher, somatic practitioner, educator, and author of the new book Write Yourself Home: A Creative Guide for Living Well in the Body You Have Through Embodied Writing and Movement Practice https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/817300/write-yourself-home-by-johanna-franzel/. She brings both professional expertise and the lived experience of navigating chronic illness for more than two decades. She also writes a Substack called Permission Slips https://johannafranzel.substack.com/. In this episode we talk about: Why your nervous system stays on high alert for threats that aren't actually there The three-step "inventory" practice for finding calm in your body, right now Why calling to mind a "resource" can genuinely shift your physiology "Presence without scrutiny": the difference between being with someone (or yourself) and staring them down Why Johanna doesn't love the word "healing" and the word she prefers instead How to turn your most embarrassing memories into material, not shame Why the way you talk to yourself matters more than you think What over two decades with Crohn's disease taught Johanna about self-advocacy and knowing your own margins Get the 10% with Dan Harris app here https://app.danharris.com/membership Sign up for Dan's free newsletter here http://www.danharris.com/ Follow Dan on social: Instagram https://bit.ly/3tGigG5, TikTok https://bit.ly/3FOA84J Subscribe to our YouTube Channel https://bit.ly/3FybRzD To advertise on the show, contact [email protected] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dan Harris?

  Hey, hey, welcome to the 10% happier podcast. I'm your host, Dan Harris. As somebody who's been dealing with anxiety pretty much his entire life, I am very interested in how to regulate my nervous system, which seems to be on high alert all the time, mostly for no good reason. So I'm very excited to talk to my guest today, who's an expert in this. Her name is Johanna Franzel, and she's the author of a book called Write Yourself Home. She's also a teacher and a somatic practitioner. I will let her describe exactly what a somatic practitioner is. Johanna, welcome to the show.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Thanks, Dan. I'm delighted to be here.

• 0:39Dan Harris?

  Why are our nervous systems on tilt so much of the time? You know, it just, it feels to me like things can happen, and my body's reacting as if it's a life or death threat, but it's, you know, just a bad email.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  That's a great question. I had a teacher who liked to say, "You can have lunch a thousand times, you get to be lunch once." You know, there is a kind of physiological disposition to scan for, "What is the threat out here?" It really does take practice, I think, to cultivate the ballast, let's say, to be able to kind of move through that. And then, and then we can throw in modernity and socialization and capitalism, right? And the, and attention that is constantly splintered, ways that were pulled in a million different directions. And so our nervous system can end up feeling incredibly fractured. And, you know, the less regulated we are sometimes, the more we're sort of like looking for strategies in the mind and trying to sort of analyze what's going on. And then we sort of lose touch with our ground.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  I know that certainly in my own, in my own past, I would have loved to have lived shoulders up in a way. And chronic illness absolutely interrupted that narrative, and maybe we'll come back around to that. But so I kind of went kicking and screaming into learning how to manage my nervous system. But then, you know, you walk into the glass door of, of your strategies enough times, and then you, you realize you have to find a different way in.

• 2:06Dan Harris?

  Just to pick up on that term you, you used, lose your ground. I think you're really talking about like the ultimate, or one of the ultimate spiritual and contemplative cliches of like getting out of your head and into your body. And it's, there's a reason why it's become a cliche, because it's a very powerful idea. And we've just wringed some of the meaning out of it through repetition. Part of the goal of this conversation is really to, to revivify the concept. There's a quote that gets used a lot by some of my meditation teachers from, I think, a Henry James novel, where he's describing one of his characters, Mr. Duffy, as living a short distance from his body.

• 2:49Dan Harris?

  And that just seems like how, I mean, I'll speak personally. Even after all of these years of meditation, it's just a mode I fall back into.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Totally. That's beautifully named. But it's not really part of our early training. We're not, we're certainly not rewarded for feeling. And then I think we're given the instruction, "Listen to your body", and we have no idea where to start. The two settings are like, "I'm either fine, or I hurt." A therapist had told me that I needed to listen to my body using a sort of low stakes decision. And so I was in the tea aisle at the supermarket, absolutely freakishly like holding up tea boxes to my sternum, being like, "Tetley, okay, is this a yes or no? Celestial seasonings," you know, like imagining, you know, I was like, "Expansion, that is yes." Like I had this very rudimentary idea of what listening to a body was.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  And I also think I regarded it at the time as a kind of parlor trick. Like I was calling it listening to my body, but what I really wanted was to get on with it so that I could manage my life better. And it took me a lot of practice and some of what's shared in the book to actually understand that listening to my body was not just, you know, like a parade or a trick. It was actually enough spaciousness, enough safety, we could call it, to be able to listen to something else that had a, that had a more nuanced signal.

• 4:15Dan Harris?

  Which tea did you land on after that supernatural paranormal activity in this, in the supermarket?

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Oh, Dan, I wish I had a good answer. I mean, I was, I really was like, would a cheaper option be a yes? Would it be more expensive? Like, how do I get in? And I mostly just felt like kind of a freak standing there and not knowing.

• 4:35Dan Harris?

  Tell us a little bit about your story. You referenced it. You did not come to this like as somebody with a career interest in the touchy feely.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  There's a different timeline where my life looks very different. But basically, 20 plus years ago, I was working in public radio. I was running a network for young producers through PRX. I was going to graduate school at Harvard to study arts and education and narrative. And then I started developing symptoms of something called Crohn's disease, which is a chronic autoimmune disease that involves the part of the body we'd all really rather not talk about. And I really, like truly did not want to talk about it. I was like, "What happened to my plan of like, you know, radio is ephemeral? Like, there's no body there, right?" As my symptoms got more and more undeniable,

• 5:24Speaker 01

  I became a very frequent flyer in hospitals and with doctors and with practitioners. And, and I started to understand that while Western medicine could keep me not dead, which was like no shade, very important. It had very little to say about what it meant to really live in a body like mine. And so for that, I needed a whole different set of tools. And that kind of set me back to studying like basic anatomy and physiology and things like neuromuscular therapy and something called biodynamic craniosacral therapy, which is a mouthful. But sort of like, what are the more subtle body ways to companion a body that make it easier to inhabit? And that can create a different kind of nuance

• 6:07Speaker 01

  that isn't just, "You're okay, or you're not okay." And so the practices in this book are kind of an alchemy of those two threads of having been, you know, really immersed in, "What is the story that we're telling? What are our habits? How do we," especially with narrative radio, you know, "We're telling stories about ourselves. It's not like literature." And then also, "What does it mean to inhabit a body with more ease? Like, what does it mean to begin to develop a barometer that isn't just out here scanning for threat, but actually has a bead on my own internal experience?" And, and so that's kind of what led to these series of practices. And because I'm a teacher, it was very natural to then start bringing that and sharing that with other folks.

• 6:49Dan Harris?

  And so did your career shift? I refer to you, based on your bio, as a somatic practitioner. Is that what you are now? And what, what is that actually?

• 6:59Speaker 01

  I mean, I know you talked to Princess Hempel, who is amazing. And the way that they talk about, you know, the, the sort of consciousness underneath cognition is really an underpinning of how I approach somatics. You know, how we begin to develop bodied awareness beneath cognition that makes it easier to live in the bodies that we have. And so, you know, both in workshops and in sessions, part of what I'm working with folks around is, is how we locate that internal barometer, how we start to inhabit a body with a different kind of ease, a different kind of spaciousness, a different kind of permission. That isn't just running the story of, "I'm, either I'm okay, or I'm not okay." Either I'm, you know, "I've succeeded, or I've failed."

• 7:43Speaker 01

  But the, the entire richness that exists between those two poles. But I definitely do think about language and listen to how folks language and use language. And, you know, the metaphors that we use give a lot of information about how the body is feeling its way through a situation.

• 8:00Dan Harris?

  How is your Crohn's disease after all of this work and career transition? You doing okay?

• 8:06Speaker 01

  I wrote this book coming out of a really rugged time. I'm now, you know, almost 25 years into it, and I can live a really good life. But I think one of the things that folks who live with chronic illness, and there are, I don't know, 25 million of us in this country, is that we have to be very honest about our margins. You know, so some of the old habits of bypassing that, you know, we've all had, I can't sustain. Like, my body will call bullshit.

• 8:31Dan Harris?

  You seem to be referencing a false binary that, that is a mental habit that we may or may not be aware of, of your, I think you phrase it as, "You're okay, or you're not okay."

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks for that. So one of the turning points in my own career was I went to this talk that was called "What If All Is Well?" It was by Margaret Rosenau, and she was a biodynamic cranial practitioner, one of my first teachers. And Dan, you might appreciate this as a fellow Bostonian cynic, but I, I heard "What If All Is Well?", and I was like, "What, girl? What if all is well? Like, what cuckoo crazy approach to life is this? Like, have you not, have you not been paying attention, lo, these 400 years? Like, clearly nothing is well." And certainly in my body, nothing is well. And at that point, you know, I was a decade into disease and really, really felt quite brittle. Like, was still very much trying to preserve an okayness,

• 9:26Speaker 01

  kind of a presentation of, "Things are fine." And when I went to this talk, what I, what it sort of cracked open was that she was not talking about, you know, bypassing or denying what isn't well, but actually starting to like center on what is well, center on the health, let's say. And that really changed something. Because to begin to, to get intimate with what I call my practice, resource, you know, like what feels good actually in this moment, not as a side quest, but as the main event. That really started to widen the aperture on what was possible. And it wasn't Pollyanna-ish, right? It wasn't like a, I mean, all respect to gratitude practices.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  It was not that. It was really like, there is actually a tremendous amount of health here. If you're alive, there is so much more health than there isn't. And so can you actually start to develop a connection to what it is in your life that brings you alive? Something as simple as like your dog. And, and to be able to regard that experience not as an idea, but like what happens internally when you think about this thing that resources you? You know, and that lens that is, and I know you know a lot about this, but that, that sort of nervous system lens that I think of is a sort of a view from underwater, right? So it's not precise, but it is giving us a lot of present time information.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  So things like texture, or temperature, or sense of pace, that starts to open up, "Oh, it's not only that I'm thinking about this thing, which is great, but I'm actually starting to, to get to know what good feels like in this particular body." And I can then start to sort of map my life with the places and people and things that actually allow me to breathe a little bit more, feel that spaciousness that I definitely did not have in the grocery aisle with the tea boxes. And so, so that really...

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that that really set me on a different path. And then starting to work with people around this sort of expanded idea of getting to know what resources you in a present time way.

• 11:40Dan Harris?

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• 12:25Dan Harris?

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• 12:33Dan Harris?

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• 13:15Dan Harris?

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• 13:56Dan Harris?

  I want to signal to the viewer and listener that we're going to go deep on the practices, and you keep referencing them, and I'm not picking up on them, but for good reason, because I have a bunch of questions I want to ask before we get to the practices. But one of the questions I want to ask is, I get it, you're saying we can focus on where we are healthy, even if we are, we have a chronic condition. Yours is Crohn's, mine is anxiety. But that doesn't necessarily mean all is well, because some part of it is definitely not well.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  I think part of what you're saying to Dan is the kind of paradoxical dance in the center of this. And maybe you can speak to it, and maybe there's a more elegant phrase in Buddhism. But I think, you know, both the acceptance of what is here, the focusing on what is well, and also the kind of pulling on the thread to what what could really be better, right? Like, that that move, that is not, you know, I really, I can appreciate that, because yes, there is a lot of evidence of shit that is terrible. But but to let that sort of be the only place where we go, you know, from from that sort of more compressed place, it's hard to even imagine what else is possible.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  And so that kind of, for me, somatically expanded, more supported place actually helps me come up with different moves that I can't when I'm in a curled up ball of how, you know, how much terrible there is.

• 15:25Dan Harris?

  Well, let me say a few words to see if I'm understanding you correctly, and then you'll hopefully just come in and correct me where I've stepped in it. People often get hung up on the difference between acceptance and resignation. Like, I am not going to accept. You're telling me to accept that Trump's in the White House or whatever? Change begins with not being at war with reality, seeing things clearly. And that, and then you can take the steps. And so I think of that as maybe a rough analog for what you're calling for here. Like, yeah, can can all be well even when all is not technically well? This is the way things are right now, and so there is a fundamental okayness with reality.

• 16:09Dan Harris?

  And we can make two moves. One, we can focus on the things that really are indisputably going well, and what can we do to relieve tension, dis-ease, et cetera, that may also exist. But it starts with being just cool with the way things are.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  That is, to me, one of the exciting things that happens when you work more with a body rather than the mind, because it is a very direct move towards what feels better. The signal comes right in. If I'm listening through the fascial body, for example, you know, the connective tissue body, if if I'm compressed, it actually feels bad. You know, to be able to actually start to move, or stretch, or work with more expanded capacity in a bodied way, actually feels better. So it isn't just an idea of, you know, I hope this is better. But there is a, there's a kind of supported move in that direction, if that makes any sense. The other thing I like about working with the body, and also with this idea of spaciousness,

• 17:09Speaker 01

  which we haven't touched on very much, but also has a lot of ties to meditation, is that, you know, one of the ways that I approach working with a body is, you know, this idea of presence without scrutiny, you know, like the, a kind of oblique attention. Yeah, I think, I think a lot about a nervous system as a toddler. You know, if you've had, I have a child, you have a child, like, they do not necessarily love it when you're like, right in their, like, what are you doing right now? We'll shut down all creative action. But they would really like you to be like, in the same room, doing your own thing, like present with them. But that allows like, a different movement to happen.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  That way of holding space with a nervous system, or with a body, or in my meditation practice, also leaves room for like, something else gets to happen that my, you know, sophisticated, calculating mind can't, can't always foresee.

• 18:09Dan Harris?

  When you say spaciousness, and then mention that one could achieve or approach spaciousness through treating the nervous system like a toddler, can you say a little bit more about practically how how we could do that?

• 18:25Speaker 01

  You might also have a beat on this in your own meditation practice, you know, where it's like, we're not, we're not here to stare directly at something or ask why, necessarily, all respect to why questions. But beneath why is usually a kind of scrutiny that has some judgment in it. And so if if we want to do different, actually, then we want to hold a space that has the capacity for something mysterious or unpredictable to come through, let's say, or something that we haven't foreseen. And so if, for example, if I'm in a session with someone, or if I'm in a workshop, I am very aware of staying in my spine, of staying in my back body, of staying pretty

• 19:07Speaker 01

  wide, so that I'm not like, tracking right in to, you know, an idea that they're sharing, or a piece of writing that they're sharing, but really letting it breathe a little bit more. And so it's a, it's a different quality of attending to what's here, but it's not, it's not poking.

• 19:27Dan Harris?

  There, I heard you describe how we could be spacious with somebody in our presence, like, you're, you're just kind of settled back into your own body, and allowing whatever is happening in front of you to unfold. But is there a way to be spacious with our own body? And what does that mean, actually?

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, great. I love it. That that might take us back to resource a little bit. One of the things that I love about working with resources, because if if if something feels good, it tends to be more spacious. Would you be willing to think about a resource, like something that you?

• 20:02Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Okay, I don't recommend people, because we're complicated and difficult, but you know, place, or a moment in time, or an animal, that when you think about it, it's just totally the channel of sweetness.

• 20:12Dan Harris?

  My overweight cat, cat Ozzy, when he unfurls his generous belly to

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Ozzy.

• 20:19Dan Harris?

  an oncoming visitor.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Hopefully you. Oh, that's so great. So so that view from underwater piece, right? Like, so if you're thinking about Ozzy, and unfurling towards you with that incredible belly, and you kind of listen to yourself from the inside, what does your chest feel like? What does your sense of space feel like? What does gravity feel like from here? What do you notice?

• 20:42Dan Harris?

  Like, a pleasant elevation at the, right below the solar plexus, at kind of the top of the belly, I feel, a little bit?

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Nice. Anything else you notice? Texture-wise, you've got this, we've got this elevation at the belly.

• 20:57Dan Harris?

  Texture-wise, I mean, there's certainly the image coming up in my mind, and really seeing it pretty crisply.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like we all are, Dan. That great belly is really beautifully invoked.

• 21:08Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:10Dan Harris?

  It's, it's ample.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  So this, it's ample. I mean, for me, like, when when I'm here with you, it feels more spacious, like, we're working less hard. Ozzy enters the scene, and it is less tight, it is more available, you know, we're looser. And so it's a place from which it's easier to be creative, and it's easier to be kind to ourselves. Here, I have to admit that I am, I am super jealous of the first line of your book, which I think is so good, you know, that, like, the voice in your head is an asshole, because I absolutely, I am familiar with that voice. But one of the things that working more with my body gifted me, or in, like, if we bring Ozzy into the scene, is that other voices started to show up. And and they were a lot kinder.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  They were not all assholes. And sometimes it was as simple as, like, I'm thirsty, you know, like, the things that I would just be like, quiet down now, our important work is out here, you know, where we're being productive. But even like, you know, basic bodily needs that I wouldn't necessarily pay attention to, this kind of withstanding, I think a lot of us can habituate to. The more that I was able to, and with, you know, clients and folks in workshops, see that spaciousness come up, the easier it was to do different, and to access different stories about what was true for them, and what's been true for me.

• 22:34Dan Harris?

  So just to put a fine point on this, I think what you're saying is that if we're noticing that we feel like shit for any number of reasons, we're stressed, we're toppling forward to the next thing on our to-do list, we're carrying, nursing a grudge from some...

• 22:51Dan Harris?

  Unhappy interaction in the morning with our spouse, whatever it is. One move we can make is to call to mind what you're, what you're calling a resource. I think in some circles psychologists have called this like a happy place, which has been mocked as sort of silly, but I think there's actually quite a bit of evidence to support it. Just bringing to mind your version of Ozzy the cat can relax the nervous system and allow for a kind of spaciousness. Am I on point here?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, you totally are. I mean, and, and probably you feel it right now, like even at the mention of Ozzy, it feels like we get a little easier.

• 23:33Dan Harris?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Right. And, and I do want to say one thing that's important, Dan, because when things are really hard, that's a very hard move to make. And, and that's, that's one of the practices we might end up talking about. But, you know, especially as somebody who really knows chronic illness and chronic pain, if someone walks into the room when I'm feeling particularly crappy and is like, think about your dog, I, I would have words. You know, I might have to start with like, let me actually tell you how I am from here. Because I have to start where I am. And once, and once I can be honest about that, that opens up a different kind of breath. Then I can be like, all right, now let's talk about Rosie the dog, who also has an ample belly.

• 24:16Dan Harris?

  But let me pick up on what you just said there. So a calling to mind a resource, like a dog or a cat or a toddler, or whatever it is, can be useful in, let's say, garden variety suffering. But when you're in a more acute, anguished moment, physically or psychologically, we need a different set of tools. And you mentioned something about what's happening. Oh, you, you said something there that I want to go back to. What was your phraseology?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we, I mean, we want to be honest about what's happening. Would this be a moment to talk about one of the practices that kind of connects to this?

• 24:52Dan Harris?

  Please, yeah, yeah, go for it.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  So one of the first practices is something called inventory. And, you know, but we're, we're working with the idea of invent inside of inventory. So with these practices, we always start with a body. You know, so to begin with, like, is it possible to work less hard to be right where you are? And then, and I'll pause there, just so we can like, oh yeah, my shoulders could be lower, my feet are on the, on the floor. And from there, you know, we make this move to an exercise that a lot of people are familiar with, like, what are five things I can see and four things I can touch? You know, three things I can smell, two things I can, you get the idea, down through the senses. Senses

• 25:33Speaker 01

  are, you know, a really common portal that we're, we're all familiar with. So that helps us orient to like, what is in the room with me right now? You know? And then from there, we get to the invent. What are five things I love to see? Four things I love to touch? You know, three things I love to taste. Usually for taste, I've got to go to at least 10 because I really love food. But so that's starting to like, sort of secretly create a list of resources. But it does start with what's actually here. And if someone, you know, I appreciate you use the word anguish, Dan. You know, there are moments, like, I'm not a big fan of rules, but when someone is in real anguish, then, then that presence

• 26:17Speaker 01

  without scrutiny, then like, I'm just here and it's awkward. And I won't be staring at you or asking why, is its own kind of bomb, right? It's, it, because when we feel terrible not having to explain ourselves, or justify, or make somebody else comfortable with how hard it is, is itself a kind of support.

• 26:41Dan Harris?

  Okay. So you said two things there that I want to disambiguate and unpack. We'll come back to presence without scrutiny, but staying with taking inventory, let's just walk through those steps again, if people want to put this to work in their life today.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  So we start with that, this invitation that I always use at the beginning of every workshop. Is it possible to work less hard to be right where you are?

• 27:06Dan Harris?

  Stop on that for a second. Sorry to keep interrupting you, but that's a really interesting question. Is it possible to work less hard to be where you actually are? That feels like if you, it's a bit of a mouthful, but if you could remember to ask yourself that question throughout the day, life would be much more easeful.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  And I, I hear that from folks all the time, that they will, you know, like, keep it on a piece of paper or, or put it on their computer at work, just because, you know, sometimes we, we have this idea that to, to make a big move in our lives, it's got to be something dramatic. But I think so much is interior, is, is not actually visible to the outside. But it, but it can feel radically different to inhabit ourselves. So thank you so much for that pause, because just that is like, okay, I'm working less hard. You might not know it, but I know it. And so, you know, now I'm a little bit more available to what's in the room with me.

• 28:01Dan Harris?

  Because I've taken a deep breath, or relaxed my shoulders, unclenched my jaw, whatever it is. I've noticed where I'm holding some tension in my body and I've released it.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And I'm a little bit more here.

• 28:14Dan Harris?

  I interrupted you, but that's step number one in this taking inventory.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  And so then we're just kind of, and, and this will be an exercise that a lot of folks are familiar with. But, you know, I'm looking around the room, what are five things I can see? You know, couch cushion, lamp, mug of tea. What are four things I can touch? What are three things I can smell, for example? Two things I can hear? And one thing I could taste? I really appreciate that you're slowing us down here, because even that, it's like, you know, when, when we hear embodiment, I feel like the, the senses are like, they're a very familiar place, because especially for those of us who are like, either I'm on the channel of I hurt or it's quiet. To begin to open up the senses really tunes

• 29:01Speaker 01

  us to something else. Okay, what's in the room with me?

• 29:04Dan Harris?

  People talk about, you know, this is again, another one of these contemplative cliches, wellness cliches, getting out of your head and into your body. But this technique, which many of us have heard before, but maybe haven't actually done, is, it, it seems to me, a great way in moments of psychological stress, where you're in your head, you're spinning out on something, to like, pull you out of that, because you are, actually, I mean, from a, on a brain level, I think you are moving in these moments from the amygdala, the fear center, to the prefrontal cortex, the more rational part of the brain. And I've had this experience, you know, I've done a lot of work with exposure therapy, because

• 29:48Dan Harris?

  I have panic disorder and elevators and airplanes can be a nightmare. And, and my exposure therapist will, you know, in moments where we're in an elevator together, be like, yeah, just, what does it feel like to breathe right now? Without even controlling the breath? Like, can you just tune into that? And it's very hard to be making fretful projections when you're feeling your breath.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  And I love that you brought in that prefrontal cortex piece, because, you know, part of what we're doing in that moment too, is cultivating the kind of, the kind observer, right? Like the sort of neutral ally, that kind of third space, you know, it's not you or me, but it is that kind of witness that is here, that is not scrutinizing, let's say, but that is like, oh yeah, as you're doing, like, what is it like to breathe right now? Because if you're tracking that, it's harder to be in the spin of everything else, right? Or in that amygdala space.

• 30:42Dan Harris?

  I want to pick up on the kind observer or the presence without scrutiny, but there is a third step in the inventory, and that's the invent part of the inventory.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  That's right. So from here, I mean, this is kind of a sneaky way to start to get at your resources, you know, rather than like, just make a list of what you enjoy. Like, what are five things that you love to see? And they do not have to be in this room. Rosie, you know, the peonies. What are four things? So we, we use the same, that we're counting down, what are four things? And again, not big on rules, so it might be more, four things you love to touch, you know, three things you love to smell. And so you're starting to kind of open up or fire your brain in these places and these senses that, that are real sweetness for you. And so we're getting to know, like, in, in a very specific way for you, what, what brings you alive? I realize that's kind of

• 31:35Speaker 01

  a cheesy term, but like, you know, your particular precise geometry of, of what enlivens you. And, and that is a great catalog to keep with you. We can't have too many things that we love and then make it easier to walk around.

• 31:52Dan Harris?

  This is random, but you were talking about how you like to eat and, and, you know, maybe not just do one thing you can taste. I have an adorable nephew, Benjamin, and when he was a little boy, very little boy, he went through a period of time where he would walk around and always ask the question, is this edible?

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Oh my God, Benjamin's a genius.

• 32:16Dan Harris?

  Yes. I mentioned it to him the other day. I saw him and he, he didn't, he had only a vague, faint memory of it, but I have a very, very, in fact, maybe that memory is a resource for me.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  I mean, it feels like it. We're, I mean, it's so sweet. And it's, it's, it's, it's triggering one for me of my daughter, who's now 16, but when she was little and she would have a really good meal, she would say, my belly is full, but my tongue is tasting for more.

• 32:41Dan Harris?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Just like, oh, girl, tell it. Like, yes, that feeling of like, oh, I'm so full, but please, please more of this.

• 32:51Speaker 02

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• 33:23Dan Harris?

  Okay, so let's come back to something else you said because somewhere in this discussion of the practice of taking inventory, which I think we've now fully provided for folks, you talked about something called presence without scrutiny. And I wanted to come back to that to understand what exactly you're pointing at.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that ties a little bit back to what we were working on with spaciousness. That kind of kind observer, that sort of wide angle. I am not here to stare you down. I'm not here to ask you to explain why you're so messed up or why you're so sick. I'm here to actually, you know, be present in a way that is open to whatever shows up here. This might be a moment to make a turn to talk a little bit about some of the practices too, because there's two principles that really tie into this. So the book is called Write Yourself Home. The idea is embodied writing, but for folks who aren't writers, you certainly wouldn't have to follow that particular stream. But there are two principles we start every workshop or session with.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  And the first is reverence. And the metaphor I usually use when I talk about reverence is like if you were staring at a newborn or Benjamin, you know, when he's just born, you're not like, ah, her eyelashes could be longer. You're like, wow, right? Like, look, that's incredible. Like, she's amazing. Like, there's nothing corrective about that lens. And so when we're doing the writing, if we choose to, we're really bringing that spirit of reverence to it. But the other principle is permission. And that is, you know, the idea is that there isn't a barometer outside of yourself, you know? So if you hear a prompt or an inquiry or a question and you're like, that's not for

• 35:12Speaker 01

  me, or I want it to be different. Or if you're like, what I really want to do is eat chocolate in the corner, then chef's kiss. That's the idea. We could also call it irreverence, right? We don't have to take it too seriously. So to me, there's a kind of like, we get a really nice range when we bring these in. And that, to me, is part of that presence without scrutiny. Like, I can bring a reverent attention to whatever comes here. And I can also be spacious and like not get up in your face. And there can be tremendous permission for what comes through. And so that might be a different way to kind of invoke that same spirit. Does that feel like it answers the question, Dan?

• 35:51Dan Harris?

  I think what you're saying, and I want to come back to embodied writing in a second, but I think what you're saying about presence without scrutiny is that as soon as we can relax our nervous system a little bit, we're more available to whatever's going on, either internally for ourselves or for whoever may be crossing our paths. Is that close?

• 36:11Speaker 01

  That's right. And it feels better to boot.

• 36:14Dan Harris?

  Yes, even while we're sitting here, I noticed, oh, my hamstrings are tight. And so I just like put my leg out straight and shifted my foot back and did that for 20 seconds on each side. And like, my body feels better sitting in the chair.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  It's such a small move, but it's a move from withstanding or numbing out, or I'm fine, with air quotes, to like, actually, what are the accommodations I actually need to make for myself so that it's easier to show up here more fully? And as I do that, it's easier to be more present. I get kinder voices that show up. I find more creative solutions to things because I'm working less hard and I feel more supported.

• 36:59Dan Harris?

  So there's a whole practice around this specifically, which is like making little adjustments. You've used this phrase several times, so you aren't withstanding. I think you mean by that, like, we kind of white knuckle it through life and sometimes in very small ways that have real consequences. But maybe the old me would have just sat here in a low-grade pain, which would have made me less available to you. But you have a whole practice in the book around being on the lookout for withstanding and then easing things up. I can't remember the name of the practice, but maybe you can tell us about it.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, beautiful. I mean, and you're following the sequence really beautifully too, Dan, because, you know, like, we start with resource. We start with getting to know what good feels like here. And so we have like an expanded capacity of noticing internally. And as we do that, you know, we feel better, but good news, bad news, we also have a better capacity to feel, which means that, you know, some of those places where we would have been like, it's, it's fine. I don't need to, so what, I've been buying pants that are too small for three years or that my hamstrings are screaming right now. And so, you know, this kind of like pause to notice, it's a little bit like, is it possible to work less hard? But also, what are, what are real adjustments that we can make in present time?

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Which don't, which don't sound like, you know, groundbreaking, but in the same way, you know, that meditation is like, it's a practice that feeds itself over time. You know, we, we see the benefits the more we practice. We start to incubate this more attuned capacity to listen to what's happening in our body, and it pays dividends. There's, you know, I mentioned this in the book, but I grew up, I grew up a couple of blocks from Boston Harbor. My dad ran a sailing center there. He's also a competitive sailor, so all vacations, such as they were, were on sailboats. And very analog, like, he's got the chart in the, down below, and he's calling up for me to follow a compass, compass heading, like an old fashioned compass.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  And so very early on, I learned that, you know, like, the difference of a single degree might seem minuscule, but you follow that out over miles, you end up someplace totally different, right? So, and I think that's, that's more how nervous system works. It's not like we're hummingbird fast. It's more like the barge. You know, these, these small practices, we incubate here, we follow them out over time, we have a more habitable life. And so this practice of withstanding, similarly, it's not like me loosening my belt is a revolution, but then down the road, I'm not sleeping at the wheel of my own life. And what I notice with a lot of folks that I've worked with is, and I'd be curious if

• 39:44Speaker 01

  this tracks with your own experience, healing, such as it is, I don't love that term, which we might get into, we could call it growth, is less like I cross the finish line with this triumphant ribbon breaking across my chest and more like, I, whatever I could summon to be okay with things that weren't okay, I no longer can. It's almost like growth by fatigue, you know? As we are more attuned and we're, we're more awake to what's here, it's like, shit, I had, I was doing all this withstanding or accommodating and I, I can't, I can't pretend that this thing that was okay is. I can't, I can't even dress it up.

• 40:24Dan Harris?

  So in this way, I could imagine, you know, it starts small, like I'm, I'm a little bit more attuned to what's happening in my body, so I'm unbuttoning my top button or loosening my belt or buying new pants or stretching my hamstrings or shifting in my seat, whatever it is required to not withstand so that I can be more available to myself and other people, so I can be more relaxed and happy and in, in this body and in this mind, that those small, seemingly small things can lead to, oh yeah, I should quit this fucking job, or I'm in a bad relationship, or whatever.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Yes, I really think they can. And, and you know, I think one of the misguided ideas we're sold is that that sort of attunement would make us more selfish. In fact, I think it makes us a lot more generous because we're really showing up here and we're really learning how to meet our own needs. And so we actually are more available to be attuned to what else is happening in the room and more interested in, you know, collective feeling better. There's a, there's a different availability that is not just, it's, it's the opposite of navel gazing. It's like, you know, because I've shown up here fully, as fully as I can, I'm really here and excited about what is happening for you.

• 41:42Dan Harris?

  I talk about this a lot, man, which is a huge theme in my next book of, of how self-love, properly understood, not as like bath bombs and incense, although if that's your thing, go for it, but self-love, like, really is like having the same warmth towards yourself that you would have toward an Ozzy or Rosie. That can unlock an upward spiral because you are more available for other people. And since other people, in other words, relationships are the most potent variable in human flourishing, you then get happier, your relationships get better and up you go. It's not a perpetual thing, but it's more like this kind of, you know, I would bracket

• 42:25Dan Harris?

  what we're talking about here today under like my understanding of self-love, just like having a warm, supportive relationship to yourself can have really profound ramifications, starting at unbuttoning your top button on your pants.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah, exactly. I'm excited about your book. Yeah, that, there's a chapter in my book called Full of Yourself. It's sort of about that, you know, that idea, especially, you know, as a young girl coming up, like, the worst thing you could be was full of yourself. I mean, you could be a lot of terrible things, really. In patriarchy, but, but you know, that I'd like how, how much what you're talking about with self-love upends that. Like, actually, the idea is like, please fill up with yourself. Like, be so full that you upgrade every relational field you walk into and cultivate. Because you are resourced enough to really attend to, to what's happening.

• 43:23Dan Harris?

  Let's go back to embodied writing. Again, your book is called Writing Yourself Home. And my understanding is much of what you're doing is taking these practices that we've, some of which we've already described, including taking inventory, and adding a really quick two-minute writing prompt on top of it. And as you said earlier, like, you don't have to do the writing part if, if you're like me and like not into writing prompts. You can just do the, the intellectual and somatic exercise. But just say a little bit more about embodied writing.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  So for me, writing is a potency. I love writing and I know not everyone does. And so I feel like it's important to say off the top exactly what you just shared, Dan, that we come back to permission, right? Like, if you're not a writer, then there's, there's still a lot in here that is rich inquiry into, you know, the, the intelligence beneath cognition. I also think for a lot of us, writing is so twizzled up with judgment that really shuts down creative discovery. And so for me, it's, it's, it's really a wide open invitation to, to write very freely. Exactly. Could be for two minutes, could be for five, could be not at all. But the chapters are very short, the prompts are very accessible. It is not diary writing.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  It really does start with a body. So, you know, every practice begins with a way of getting into the body or a meditation or a visualization or a breath exercise. They are really designed to be very accessible and digestible. It sort of moves through six parts and the writing can be nice because you have kind of a record of, oh, how is my relational, inner relational field deepening, for example? Like, what, what have I noticed about what I'm shouldering or what matters to me? It is really a kind of invitation to live well in the body you have. And that can be anybody, I would say. I come to it, of course, from chronic illness, but most of the people I work with don't. And if we're earthside, we have bodies and they're complicated and we know pain and we know hurt and we're managing.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  And so the idea is these are tools to make that easier.

• 45:32Dan Harris?

  So let's talk about some of the specific tools. There are a few others that I think are worth talking about. One of them is called Museum of Follies. What is, what is that about?

• 45:41Speaker 01

  I went to a Sangha, I went to Green Gulch for a week as a 22-year-old farm volunteer and I didn't know how to properly tie these hippie pants and like flash the entire Sangha. Like, you know, things that were like very like, oh my God, I can't believe I did that. So Museum of Follies is sort of like an invitation to bring that like very loose, absolutely not blaming lightness to like get into your body, you know, breathe gently and just kind of like survey the ridiculousness of life. It could be a museum and what would it look like? Like, if you, if you wrote the, what do you call those? Like the little tabs that go by the exhibits? You know, how would you describe particular medications or, or things that you did?

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Or your sister's lipstick that you absolutely ruined? Or the terrible music and dances, you know, whatever shows up here. The idea is really not to bring over seriousness. I'm a great fan of range. You know, we can be talking about the pains and traumas and we can also be talking about flashing the Sangha and getting hit in the face by a flying fish, which has also happened.

• 46:46Dan Harris?

  What is the use case for this practice of Museum of Follies? Like, what, at what moment would one want to do this?

• 46:54Speaker 01

  I really like humor. It can be a kind of way to break through my own brittle seriousness. So, you know, I think if particularly, you know, we've all had those days where like, oh my God, like this, I can't believe how many things have gone wrong today. And so like in moments like that, where there's like a forehead slapping, like, look at this guy. This thing and this thing happened and sort of to be able to catalog in a way that brings some levity to what we've endured even.

• 47:26Dan Harris?

  So on a day where you're feeling regret and maybe even shame for something, to leaven and aerate the situation by bringing to mind past follies? And like, the unavoidable conclusion has to be you survive those, you'll survive this.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  That this is not the only moment, right? Like, there will be future humiliations. And, you know, how do we show up for ourselves in those moments? And, and how do we bring levity?

• 47:57Dan Harris?

  There's another practice called Inner Friend. What's that about?

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Inner Friend is sort of a thread through the entire book. You know, that cultivation of the voice that isn't just the asshole. And so it surfaces at a lot of different moments, but we were talking about full of yourself. You know, this invitation to sort of like be the adult to your younger self. Like the friend that is able to be like, Dan, fill up with yourself. Like, how, like, what, what does a day look like in which you, you are full to brimming? Like, your 14-year-old self, your 26-year-old self, your current day self? You know, to have that part of you that's an advocate for you or that's on your side? You know, that, that shows up and companions you in these spaces.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  I will say, it feels worth mentioning, you know, like at the, one of the last scenes in the book is, the last time I was hospitalized for a significant amount of time was in 2019. I'd been doing these embodied writing practices for at least a decade at that point. And the curtain pulled back and my roommate, because you share hospital rooms, like turned to my husband and was like, your wife really knows how to advocate for herself in here. And I had no idea that somebody had been watching all of my interactions. But, but she was like, yeah, she really, she's really not getting pushed around. She's not a jerk, but she really knows how to speak up. And, and it was this interesting moment because it wasn't, because I was like deeply indebted to and respectful with all of the people who were keeping me alive.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  But when the doctor was like, you're not in pain anymore, so we're going to cut off your pain meds. I was like, that's simply not true. Or when they were like, the guy in the seventh floor has Crohn's and he's doing all better and you're not. I was like, true enough, I am not. You know, so I just, I had that inner friend piece was, was present in just being able to name like, I hear you and respect you, but let me name what's also here. Because there was just a capacity, an enlarged capacity to inhabit from the inside. And so that's another expression.

• 50:00Dan Harris?

  I find this piece to be incredibly powerful. And there's, there's a bunch of research here that we spend most of our time with an inner narrator who's muttering under his breath or her breath and, you know, critiquing and judging and wanting to be elsewhere or otherwise, or whatever. It's, it's mostly the voice in my head is an asshole. And, and yet there is a way, and again, a lot of evidence here, work done by Kristin Neff, anything Cross in particular, that you can cultivate a kind of best friend internally who's just kind of coaching you throughout your day. Not, not self-indulgent, letting you off the hook, because that wouldn't be actually in your interest.

• 50:43Dan Harris?

  Really, like the, the wisest part of you, who is available in moments when somebody asks you for advice, for example, is just with you all the time. I find this super compelling. It is something that I work on personally. For people listening to this and agree, yeah, that sounds interesting, but I don't know how to get there. What would you recommend?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  It might sound like a small move, but, but that resource piece, like just getting to know what good feels like from the inside. It's, I mean, it sounds like so microscopic and certainly the mind could be like, come on, buddy, you're wasting our time. Like, I want a to-do list of how to find this inner friend. But I, but we are creating more fluidity. We're creating more of an updated version of who we are. And we, we're creating a different kind of self-trust, right? And so this like cultivation of self-trust can also,

• 51:38Speaker 01

  I don't know if safety is the right word to use here, Dan, but a sense of, I've got my back. I'm in here and there's no finish line. Like every day I'm doing the best I can, but I, I am cultivating a different relationship with these voices that are actually very much advocating for me and, you know, supporting me. Yeah.

• 51:59Dan Harris?

  So I think what you're saying is this is a practice, like it takes, it takes a while to, to rewire your inner talk track. Like, that's no small thing. And you can start really small by just noticing the next time you're really uncomfortable or really unhappy and bringing to mind your version of Ozzy with his large belly and fish breath and seeing how that relaxes the nervous system. This can build on itself in a cumulative, cumulative way where you start to have a more supportive inner environment over time.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  And there's an example in the book of a client that I work with called Agatha, who's a healthcare practitioner and she was feeling really crappy and she just felt like she wasn't getting anything done. And because the session was online, I was like, well, can you just go take your medication now? And she did, and I was like, oh, you know, good job. And she was like, good job for a glass of water? Like, what the hell? Like, is that, like, am I your child? And I, I didn't realize until she, and I love her, she's salty and wonderful. And I, I didn't realize until that moment that, that actually I, I talk to myself more that way now. I mean, that's, that's part of the practice too, is like, we're building that bodied sense. We can start right now, but like, you can hear you, buddy.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  So we might as well like recruit a voice that's like, God, this is really hard for you today. You, you do not like the situation. You took your medication and you didn't want to. Good job.

• 53:29Dan Harris?

  I can feel myself moving in that direction personally, too, and it's taken a lot of work. Just it started in like moments of real acute suffering and using those moments, an alarm bell to talk myself off the ledge, put my hand on my heart, as Kristin Neff, the godmother of self-compassion would recommend. If that sounds disgusting and embarrassing to you, I get it because that's the way it sounded to me, but a lot of evidence to show it works, not only in the research, but also in my own personal experience. But then moving toward just kind of having a daily companion that is just kind of with me the way I would be with my son when we spend the day together. And that is super helpful. I forget all the time and that's fine.

• 54:12Dan Harris?

  It's a much more easeful way to live when I can remember to do it.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  What does it sound like when that voice shows up?

• 54:18Dan Harris?

  The thing I find myself saying to myself all the time is, you're good, bro. Like, you're good, you know, like, yes, you just did this stupid fucking thing in a meeting and you're worried that everybody's going to think you're a bad person, whatever. But like, you're good, you can apologize. And even if everybody quits because they hate you, it'll be what it is and you'll start from there.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  I love that. And I love that you call yourself bro.

• 54:43Dan Harris?

  That's the only way I can do this shit is like to just make it slightly less embarrassing.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Totally hear you. Totally hear you. Yeah. Yeah, bro.

• 54:55Dan Harris?

  You said something earlier that I do, I want to come back to. And it now feels like the appropriate moment to do it. You don't love the word healing. Why, why not?

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Again, a context is having lived with a chronic illness for almost 25 years. And so that treadmill of like, I just have to get better. I just have to get better. I just have to fix myself can be an excruciation. I also think it's not that healing isn't meaningful, but it's so braided with the idea of fixing.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  And I actually love the word fix in English because it's like, it's transparently shows us what it is, right? Because to fix is to repair, but it's also to like lock in place. But if something moves, it's alive. Movement is the signature of life. And so in a lot of ways, like to fix something is to make it less alive. In a lot of ways, when I think about these practices is, is it's like, how do we unfix ourselves? You know, like, how do we become more fluid, more permissive, kinder? So that we're not just trying to like, I have figured it out. It's in a steel box. Now I'm okay. Because speaking from a body that definitely is often not okay, that frame can feel kind of cruel.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  And even in terms of healing, we can also have this idea of like, you'll be good once you're different than who you are now. And so instead, how do we cultivate? Our strategy's got us here, right, Dan? So, so instead, like, how is there enough safety or permission or support so that I get to make different choices? I don't have to lose the old strategies, but I get to open up what's possible for me. And so, and that, that to me, too, is a way of becoming unfixed. So I realize I'm playing a little bit semantically, but I hope I'm conveying like, I just feel like people, you know, sometimes I've been asked like, oh, are you healed? And it's like, I, I mean, there are flares and then there are not flares. And that will be the cycle till I'm, till I'm out of here.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  And so if I get too attached to it's good now, then it's punishing when it's not.

• 57:04Dan Harris?

  And you said before that maybe you preferred the word growth because I can see how that would work. You aren't healed from chronic illness. I'm not healed from chronic anxiety. I hope this never happens, but you may end up back in the hospital. I may have another panic attack. Or, you know, have to go back on a standing dose of Klonopin or whatever it is because I've had some sort of setback. Growth can cover that. Like you, you were in the hospital in 2019 and you were advocating for yourself in ways you had never advocated for yourself before. So there was on some level a setback in your quote unquote healing, but unquestionably also a progression in your growth.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  I'm so glad you clocked that. And it's, it's really interesting because, you know, I've been hospitalized plenty of times, but in 2008, I was so ashamed. I told, I mean, my partner and my best friends, but I didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell family. It was just like, it felt so, and I don't know if you've had this experience, that shame piece is, right? I mean, it's, I want to swear a lot here, Dan. I know we're allowed to, but it feels so uncomfortable.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  And so it was, it was wild to then, you know, fast forward 11 years and I told everybody and I leaned on them and they showed up in ways. And so that inner friend who was like, yeah, this, this version of health. And like you're saying with anxiety, like that is present, so is, so is Ozzy, so is Benjamin, you know, so are all these beautiful things that you've built in your life right alongside. And those, those are not, again, side quests, like those are the main event.

• 58:45Dan Harris?

  I think this comes back to the writing, too, because there's a way in which you are unfixing yourself through the writing and telling a different story. And also just by the fact that you're telling a story,

• 59:00Dan Harris?

  leaning in consciously or subconsciously to the fact that things are always changing all the time. That's why we can have stories.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Language is a support to constantly be updating and reframing, you know, how I describe this unfolding life, which for me is a written practice, but again, not for everybody, that, that really helps me kind of deepen into and explore, you know, whatever this growth that is absolutely not linear looks like.

• 59:27Dan Harris?

  Two questions I always ask as we're vectoring toward the close of our time together. The first is, is there something you were hoping we would get to that we haven't?

• 59:35Speaker 01

  I think we, I think we did a great job of, of covering a lot of bases. Yeah. My, my hope is that this is a, these practices are a support to anyone who needs them.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  And I, I think we've talked about that in a lot of different ways. So I don't think so.

• 59:51Dan Harris?

  Final question is, can you just remind everybody of the name of your book and anything else we should know about you that you're putting out into the world?

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Thanks. Yeah. The book is Write Yourself Home. It's a creative guide for living well in the body you have with embodied writing and movement practice. It's a very long subtitle. You can find me at my website and I love teaching this material and sharing this material. It's a total great joy for me. So I'm just incredibly grateful to talk with you today about it and to share it with folks.

• 1:00:22Dan Harris?

  Johanna Franzel. Thank you very much. Great job.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Thanks so much, Dan. Great to be with you.

• 1:00:28Dan Harris?

  Thank you so much to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. 10% Happier is produced by Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Cashmere is our executive producer and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme. Also, one last thing before I let you go. Our Summer Sunday Live series is officially underway every Sunday at 4 Eastern. You can join the legendary meditation teacher Sharon Salzberg for a deep dive into the Buddha's Cookbook for Happiness, The Eightfold Path. You can catch up on replays if you've already missed a few of the sessions and you can

• 1:01:09Dan Harris?

  join the next live meditation and Q and A only on the 10% with Dan Harris app. Go to danharris.com to start your free trial.

• 1:01:22Speaker 03

  Rubrik is the security and AI operations company built for what happens after an attack hits, not just the moment before. AI has turned the threat landscape into quicksand, moving too fast for any human to fully predict. That's why an agentic cyber resilience platform matters. Automated recovery, clean data, a business that keeps moving no matter what hits. One platform, not a patchwork of stitched together tools and gaps. Don't wait for the next attack. Secure and accelerate your business at rubrik.com. Again, rubrik.com.