SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: SYSK Live: The DB Cooper Heist

Join Josh and Chuck live from Seattle as they (sky)dive into one of the most brazen robberies in the annals of crime and the only unsolved airline hijacking in American history. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Ford ability, and it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places. Introducing Voices of Vivgard. Vivgard is also known as its generic name, Fgard Tigamod Alpha F Cab, and this new show features firsthand stories from people living with a rare disease.

• 0:46Josh Clark?

  Hosted by Andrew Stratton, these perspectives highlight that life is more than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Living with a rare disease can be challenging, but it does not define the Voices of Vivgard. In these episodes, they share their stories, from diagnosis to working with their care team on their treatment plan. Listen to Voices of Vivgard on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong, even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees a network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T: Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Just visit att.com/guarantee for details.

• 1:44Josh Clark?

  Welcome back, everybody. We're moving along on our true crime playlist with an episode we recorded live in Seattle in 2017 on the unsolved mystery of DB Cooper. Someone using that alias hijacked a plane flying from Portland to Seattle in 1971 and jumped out midair, making off with $200,000. People still float suspects today, and they usually say the case is solved, but the FBI stopped investigating back in 2016, and they consider it unsolved. This one is pretty fun, so I hope you enjoy it. And if you like this live show, come see us when we hit the road again in 2026.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com.

• 2:35Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and we are here live at the beautiful Neptune Theater in beautiful Seattle and beautiful Washington.

• 3:11Josh Clark?

  Thank you guys. Phenomenal.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  I'm already a sweaty mess, so that must mean we're onstage.

• 3:18Josh Clark?

  We are off to a great start.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  That must mean I'm awake.

• 3:22Josh Clark?

  Or sleeping.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I sweat in my sleep too.

• 3:25Josh Clark?

  Big time.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  It's gross.

• 3:27Josh Clark?

  I'm always wiping his brow while he sleeps.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  What movie are we gonna watch tonight in the hotel?

• 3:35Josh Clark?

  Is Spy Out yet on Hulu?

• 3:37Speaker 02

  I don't know. And we can leave the seat up on the toilet?

• 3:40Josh Clark?

  I don't do that.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  I don't either, because I pee sitting down. Because I'm 45 years old.

• 3:47Josh Clark?

  Do you really?

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Well, yeah.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Might as well get into it.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  What? You do too?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Why we never talked about this?

• 4:02Speaker 02

  I started peeing sitting down during the middle of the night getup, because it just makes sense. Because you don't want to wake up too much and you don't want to make a mess. And then, I think, I just hit a certain age where I was like, it's just nicer to sit down. I don't need to prove anything to anyone.

• 4:23Josh Clark?

  Landed your lady?

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 4:25Josh Clark?

  You landed your lady? You're all set?

• 4:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. I stand when I pee off my deck at night.

• 4:31Josh Clark?

  I don't do that. I live in a condo complex, they would write letters to me if I did that.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  It's not good.

• 4:37Josh Clark?

  Man, I feel like an enormous weight's just been lifted off of...

• 4:41Speaker 02

  I can't believe that you're not even 40 years old yet and you pee sitting down.

• 4:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Let's start the podcast.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Are there other guys out there that pee sitting down?

• 4:57Josh Clark?

  Alright, we are starting a movement, baby!

• 5:00Speaker 02

  That's right. Your ladies will appreciate it.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Oddly, I poop standing up.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  This is so off the rails already.

• 5:15Josh Clark?

  Like in conversation, you'll just be sitting there talking to them, you're like, "You're pooping right now, aren't you?"

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:21Josh Clark?

  He's like, "It's more efficient this way, I get more done."

• 5:25Speaker 02

  We should probably start over.

• 5:26Josh Clark?

  We should. We're gonna get offstage and come back out. Can't believe what we've been talking about here this evening already. Okay, let's all just take it down a notch, alright? Uh, so, we're podcasting, we're about to start podcasting.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:45Josh Clark?

  I think I already started the podcast. Oh god, which means that's gonna be on like the thing we...

• 5:49Speaker 02

  That's why I said we should start over.

• 5:51Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay, yeah. It stays here, everybody.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's all our secret. It's 500 people.

• 6:02Josh Clark?

  Okay. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W., Chuck Bryant, and we are live here at the beautiful Neptune Theater in Seattle, Washington.

• 6:27Josh Clark?

  Man, times two.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  That's even better.

• 6:32Josh Clark?

  It's an in-joke.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  People will be like, "Even better than what?"

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Really?

• 6:44Josh Clark?

  There's a lot of, there's more crossover between our fans and Howard Stern than our fans and Mariners fans, I think.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Boy, there's a Venn diagram out there that's confusing me already.

• 6:57Josh Clark?

  Okay, so Chuck.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:59Josh Clark?

  This is a little bit of history.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:01Josh Clark?

  So we're gonna go back in the wayback machine.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 7:09Josh Clark?

  If you listen to the PR Live podcast, you know that the Wayback Machine is imaginary, so settle down.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  They heard that live.

• 7:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that was a good one, too.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  There are PR professionals here, because they emailed me today.

• 7:25Josh Clark?

  Oh, really?

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:28Josh Clark?

  I can tell.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  There they are.

• 7:30Josh Clark?

  That's the call of the PR professional.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Caw caw!

• 7:36Josh Clark?

  So, we're going back to a cold, stormy, rainy, pretty nasty Thanksgiving Eve in 1971. And the story begins at PDX, Portland Airport. And a man walked into PDX, took a picture of his shoe on the carpet, and then walked along to the Northwest Orient Airlines ticket desk.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 8:02Josh Clark?

  And he walked up and he said, "Hi, I am really interested in finding more about Flight 305, the flight to Seattle.

• 8:12Josh Clark?

  Would that happen to be a Boeing 727-100 airplane that you guys are gonna fly on that route?"

• 8:19Josh Clark?

  And the ticket agent went, "Uh, yes, as a matter of fact, it is." And the man said, "That is fantastic. Here's my $20?

• 8:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:28Josh Clark?

  One ticket, please, for a one-way ticket between Portland and Seattle aboard Flight 305."

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, and she was like, "That's a weird question, but I guess he's very specific about what kind of plane he likes to fly on."

• 8:41Josh Clark?

  Plus, it's 1971, and I'm in no position to publicly question a man, so I'll just go along with this.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  That's very true.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  And it was $20 for that flight. This is a very 70s podcast. So, uh, they handed him his little ticket voucher and said, "Just fill this out, sir. Don't need to see ID, because it's 1971. Just tell us who you are, or whoever you want us to think you are." And he wrote down in big block letters and a red ink pen, "Dan Cooper."

• 9:15Josh Clark?

  Phew, you know where we're going with this, huh?

• 9:19Josh Clark?

  So, the Boeing 727-100, as every single person in this room knows, is a smallish plane. It's not the biggest plane in the Boeing fleet, it's not the smallest either, but it's the only one that had an aft staircase, right? And this particular flight, flying aboard this Boeing 727-100, Flight 305, had a crew of five aboard it. There was Captain William Scott, not Shaun William Scott, we figured out later on.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Not Stifler.

• 9:48Josh Clark?

  That would've made zero sense.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:50Josh Clark?

  Had he had a former life in the 70s as an airline pilot. Co-pilot, Robert Radzak, there's a C in there, for those of you who like that kind of thing.

• 10:01Josh Clark?

  And there were three flight attendants. There was a head flight attendant, who was named Alice Hancock, right?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:07Josh Clark?

  And then two, I guess, regular flight attendants. Tina McLough, who's a hero of ours, and Florence Chapner.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  I think they called them stewardesses back then, to be fair.

• 10:18Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  But we're forward-thinking guys, so we're gonna go ahead and say "flight attendant."

• 10:21Josh Clark?

  We don't use the S-word.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  You just make... well, never mind.

• 10:27Josh Clark?

  Never mind, we've done quite enough extraneous stuff for one.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  I know. So, Dan Cooper gets on the plane, there's 37 other passengers, because again, it was the 70s, they didn't overbook flights back then and say, "I'm sorry you bought a ticket, but you really can't fly on this flight." 37 passengers, pretty empty, and Dan Cooper sits in seat 18C. They pour him up a bourbon and seven up, and he lights up a cigarette.

• 10:53Josh Clark?

  A Raleigh brand cigarette.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Because it's 1971, you could smoke on planes.

• 10:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  And he looked to be about in his mid-40s, he was, you know, kinda looked like the men of the time, which is to say, you either looked, by 1971, you either looked a little more like Don Draper, kinda holding on to that 50s look, or you looked like Charles Manson. He looked a little more like Don Draper.

• 11:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Had the suit, had the skinny tie.

• 11:18Josh Clark?

  And we should talk a little bit about the suit. The suit was a russet colored suit, which was like that weird burgundy brown color.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  That's potato colored.

• 11:27Josh Clark?

  Right, and it just so happened that he was wearing this suit during the one six month period in history where you could wear that color suit out in public. So he was okay. And then his skinny tie was a clip on from JCPenney.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  That's right. He had a imitation Mother of Pearl tie pin. He had an overcoat. He had a hat, he had a bag, kind of like a briefcase. And he had these black horn rim sunglasses. Dark, kind of olive skin, would you say?

• 12:00Josh Clark?

  They call him swarthy, which I think is like stewardess. It's been phased out, you know what I mean?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  I thought swarthy, I thought that was like a sea captain.

• 12:10Josh Clark?

  No. I'm sure there were swarthy sea captains.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Because, yeah, because they're out in the sun. So they ended up getting olive skinned?

• 12:18Josh Clark?

  That's rugged.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 12:22Josh Clark?

  You're thinking of the Gortons fisherman.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Oh, right. Oh, he was swarthy.

• 12:26Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  He's swarthy as H. So he had, he had this kind of dark wavy hair. And other than that, he was just sort of an unremarkable dude. He wanted to blend in, right?

• 12:38Josh Clark?

  Well, yeah. Okay, so this guy's sitting in 18C. He's being unremarkable, aside from wearing the sunglasses. He's smoking with his left hand, which has nothing to do with anything, but we just kind of wanted to show off how much research we've done on this.

• 12:53Josh Clark?

  And when Florence Schaffner, the flight attendant working his area, comes over and gives him his bourbon and I think 7up, right?

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:02Josh Clark?

  He hands her a note. And to Florence Schaffner, she was 23, she was very pretty, she was at the time a stewardess. And this happened to her all the time, like businessmen drinking sevens and sevens, like passed her notes and hit on her all the time. So when this guy in 18C, Dan Cooper, handed her a note, she took the note and just put it in her flight apron without looking at it and turned and walked away.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  With all the other notes.

• 13:31Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. It was overflowing.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  From previous flights, yeah. From all the men who wanted to rescue her from her life.

• 13:37Josh Clark?

  Come away with me, I'm swarthy.

• 13:41Josh Clark?

  And so Dan Cooper sees this and he goes, "Miss, you may want to have a look at that note. I have a bomb."

• 13:48Speaker 02

  I think you know where we're going with this. D.B. Cooper.

• 13:54Josh Clark?

  You know, when we were coming here today, we were like, "Wow, we're really rolling the dice." It's entirely possible that everyone here had the D.B. Cooper case drilled into them from like, 3rd grade on. It's not the case, is it?

• 14:07Speaker 02

  No? You didn't study it in class and stuff like that?

• 14:09Josh Clark?

  It's such a sigh of relief. I told that to Yumi, and Yumi was like, "That's so dumb." She's like, "Do you know everything about the burning of Atlanta?" And I said, "No." And she's like, "No, no you don't." And they don't know everything about D.B. Cooper. And I went back to sleep.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  So, this was not the first commercial airplane hijacking. It actually, the first one was in 1948. And remarkably, between 1968, just 3 years earlier, and the time D.B. Cooper hijacked this plane, there were 100 commercial hijackings in 3 years.

• 14:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so this is not new.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  It was not new, but I remember, like, if anyone here grew up in like, the 70s and stuff, it was a thing. Like, planes got hijacked all the time. Because you could bring guns and bombs on planes, and you didn't need ID, and no one cared.

• 15:02Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  They were like, "Hmm, this is weird."

• 15:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's pretty much where the FBI was at the time. And by 1971, they were just starting to like, get hip to the idea of hijackings being a problem. And so their first idea was, "Well, we'll put an air marshal on every flight." And then they looked at the schedule of flights in the United States, and they were like, "Oh, this may have been a bad idea."

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Well, it was a good idea.

• 15:25Josh Clark?

  It was a fine idea if everyone, if like, a third of the population of the United States were air marshals, then yeah, it was a good idea.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  It's a good idea if you want one of every like, 300 flights with an air marshal.

• 15:37Josh Clark?

  Right, right. And the other 299 open for hijacking, right? So, this was, they figured out after a few years, like, why the logistics of American air travelers...

• 15:47Speaker 02

  This was J. Edgar Hoover's idea, by the way.

• 15:49Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  He was still in charge of the FBI in 1971.

• 15:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so he'd been there for about 50 years, right?

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:55Josh Clark?

  So his idea was air marshals. Didn't work, but they were still trying it. There was no air marshal on Flight 305, the D.B. Cooper hijacking flight.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're like, "Portland to Seattle, maybe we should put like, 3 air marshals on that one." High traffic flight.

• 16:10Josh Clark?

  And I mean, it made sense that there would not be an air marshal on that flight because most hijackings were crazed lone gunmen with a handgun who wanted to be taken to Cuba for political reasons, basically.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:23Josh Clark?

  No one flying from PDX to Sea-Tac wanted to be taken to Cuba. So there was no reason for an air marshal to be on the flight. It was a pretty good bet to not have an air marshal on. They just didn't expect D.B. Cooper because he was a pretty novel person. The idea of a single guy taking control of a flight for money with a bomb, that was new. And like our whole conception of a mad bomber hijacking a flight comes from D.B. Cooper and Sonny Bono's character in Airplane 2.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  This is actually, I did a little more research. Between 1968 and 79, it's literally referred to as the golden age of skyjacking.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  I was talking to Josh, I was like, I didn't know that you could have, I thought a golden age was about something good. I didn't know you could have the golden age of dysentery. The good old days.

• 17:14Josh Clark?

  It was good for the hijackers because they could get away with it no problem.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Maybe that's who wrote that.

• 17:19Josh Clark?

  Right, yeah.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  The golden age of skyjacking. Man. All right, so Florence Schaffner, I'm sorry, Schaffer reads the note. And she says, you know what, give me, or Cooper says, you know what, give me that note back, which is a very key thing because that means they won't have a sample of his handwriting.

• 17:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  So he asks for the note back, and from that point on, he did not converse, like everything else he had them write down to take to the captain. So they would have no more like physical evidence of his handwriting.

• 17:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the only handwriting sample they had was that ticket duplicate, and it was in block letters, which, yeah, he went like this. Dean Cooper.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  So she sits down and she says, you know, I want to know that this is legit, this is for real. Can I, can I like get a look at that bomb that you're talking about? Makes sense? And he shows her, right?

• 18:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Gives her a little peek.

• 18:10Josh Clark?

  He opened her, his bag just enough, and she went to put her fingers in, and he snapped it shut, and she went, "Oh, ha, ha."

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Just like Pretty Woman.

• 18:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:20Josh Clark?

  And, uh...

• 18:21Speaker 02

  But she sees what, you know, she sees red sticks of dynamite and a battery and, and I guess presumably like an alarm clock with two, two bells on it.

• 18:30Josh Clark?

  Right. It's got like a skull and crossbones.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like...

• 18:33Josh Clark?

  It says "You Die" or something.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Electrical tape is all around it because, uh, he watched a lot of cartoons. He knows how to make a bomb.

• 18:39Josh Clark?

  Well, she, I mean, she bought it, clearly. Um, she saw the bomb and she, uh, took down a note. He said, "Take this down. I have a ransom demand." He said, "I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash. Put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff or I'll do the job." Which is...

• 19:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:07Josh Clark?

  That was tough talk in 1971.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Again, he watched a lot of cartoons. And that's what you say when you mean business. Uh, that roughly is about $1.2 million today.

• 19:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Um, I think it's a little low if you're gonna go through a skyjacking.

• 19:22Josh Clark?

  It's a lot of work for a million dollars.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would've said, like, if you're gonna ask for 200 grand, ask for 300 or 400. That's just me.

• 19:29Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  I'm no skyjacker.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  So this is, turns out to be the only threat that, uh, Dan Cooper makes during the entire ordeal. He, he, he, it's this very first note that he gave up. So from that point on, like I said, he dictated everything else, uh, so they could just pass notes, uh, back and forth. And aside from a couple of conversations, uh, with the pilots on the cockpit phone from the rear of the plane to the cockpit, uh, they didn't have any interaction, the pilots whatsoever, with Dan Cooper.

• 19:59Josh Clark?

  Right, so there were like, almost no help whatsoever during the investigation, right? And then the fact that he asked for two parachutes was a stroke of brilliance, because it did show his hand to the FBI that he was going to jump out of the plane with the ransom money, but it also said, "FBI, I'm probably going to make a hostage jump with me, so don't tamper with any of these parachutes." Which, if the FBI had, would've been murder, but we're talking about J. Edgar Hoover's FBI. So they may have, they may have tried just that. So it was pretty smart that he asked for two pair, because they didn't know what he was gonna do.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  That's right. So Schaffner takes, uh, that ransom note, uh, gives it to Alice Hancock. She takes it over to the, the pilot and the copilot. And, uh, well, what did they do? Josh, you do a great pilot. They called Sea-Tac Airport and said...

• 20:50Josh Clark?

  Uh, Sea-Tac, we just wanna advise you on a bit of a fiddlesticks we got going on up here. Sonny Bono is taking control of the plane. He wants $200,000 in negotiable American currency by 5:00 PM.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Negotiable American currency?

• 21:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  It was a very weird thing to ask for.

• 21:13Josh Clark?

  It was. And so Sea-Tac was like, "We should probably call the cops." And the cops said, "We should probably call the FBI."

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, this was the Seattle Police Department in 1971. They're like, "No, no, no, no, no. We, we don't deal with things like this."

• 21:27Josh Clark?

  They're like, "Wait, wait. This guy doesn't wanna go to Cuba? We don't understand."

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Like, we're literally waiting for John Rambo to wander through town.

• 21:34Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  So we can harass him.

• 21:36Josh Clark?

  Just 10 more years.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Wait, that was Oregon, though, wasn't it? Yeah. Okay.

• 21:42Josh Clark?

  Pretty close. That joke will kill me tomorrow night.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, man. Rambo joke.

• 21:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah, remember it. So, um, all of a sudden, like, there's all this crazy energy going on down on the ground, right? So the FBI comes in and, um, they're, they're trying to get the money together. They're like, "You, you, we have an hour. You gotta give us more time." It's like, "No, you can't have more time." They're like, "Okay, that's fine. We'll get all this stuff together. You guys are gonna have to stay up there until we get everything ready for you." So the plane is circling Sea-Tac, and they told the passengers that, um, the plane was experiencing mechanical problems, which I would've had a problem hearing, you know? It wouldn't have... Like, I think they could've thought that through a little more.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's experiencing mechanical problems, so we're just gonna keep flying.

• 22:35Josh Clark?

  We're gonna stay aloft, see what happens. Captain Scott is a gambling man.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Everyone was drinking and smoking cigarettes, so they didn't care. They were hooking up in the bathroom. This is 1971.

• 22:49Josh Clark?

  If it had been Chuck, you would've been like, "I told you we should've driven."

• 22:53Speaker 02

  I know.

• 22:54Josh Clark?

  It's nothing.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Could've been to Portland.

• 22:58Josh Clark?

  So they had to circle for an hour and they ended up telling the passengers, "Oh, we just need to burn off some gas and everything will be fine," right? And the passengers apparently were totally unaware that they'd been hijacked. That's how cool Cooper was, right? But one passenger later said, "I had a pretty good feeling we'd been hijacked." And the press pool was like, "Shut up, go get off the day."

• 23:21Speaker 02

  He was that guy.

• 23:22Josh Clark?

  Next person.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was at that game. Yeah, I was at that game seven. It was alright. He's that dude, you know?

• 23:32Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Any remarkable event, yeah, I was there, it was no big deal.

• 23:37Josh Clark?

  I knew it was a hijacking. You really had me stumped there for a second.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  I'm role-playing.

• 23:43Josh Clark?

  Game seven.

• 23:47Josh Clark?

  So, Sea-Tac is circling, right? They're circling, circling, an hour, killing time, but just burning off gas. And Florence Schaffner has gone away to take the note to Alice Hancock, who takes notes to the cockpit. She's on the relay team, basically, now. And DB Cooper says, well, Dan Cooper says, "Hey, Tina Muklow, why don't you sit beside me for a while?" And she did, and she ended up kind of taking a bit of a seat in history, if you will. If you'll allow us that terrible analogy. And she sat down and she got, she spent a lot of time with Dan Cooper, and they ended up chatting. And she said Dan Cooper kept a level head during a very tense situation, like, the whole time.

• 24:31Josh Clark?

  And they chatted about things like Tina Muklow's home state, which was Minnesota. They talked about a nearby Air Force base and how long it took to drive to Sea-Tac. It was like 20 minutes or something. You guys can actually probably guess the Air Force base. We don't know. That one. And then, they also, at one point, he looked out the window and he said, "It looks like we're over Tacoma." So all this would indicate a lot to the FBI later on, right? That this guy was maybe a local.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm kind of curious. Could anyone here recognize Tacoma from an airplane?

• 25:06Josh Clark?

  From an airplane, really?

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Did they have a huge, like, field cut out of grass that says Tacoma?

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Corn? What are they saying?

• 25:19Josh Clark?

  I think they're saying corn.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Yeah? The smell?

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Oh, boy. I knew that, I knew this would go very well here.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  By the way, we didn't mention, they diverted all the other flights away from, from Sea-Tac at the time, because they wanted that to be the only plane in the area. And to me, the most remarkable part of this whole story is one of the other planes, in the air, the dude, the pilot gets on and tells everyone else on that plane what's going on.

• 25:57Josh Clark?

  Well, he like, he patched into the comm link between Flight 305 and Sea-Tac for the listening enjoyment of the passengers on his flight.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  It's insane. It's like, "I'm sorry we're delayed, but here's what's going on on another flight nearby."

• 26:16Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 26:18Josh Clark?

  To sit back and listen to the dulcet tones of a skyjacking.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  Again, it was the 70s, everyone was drinking, they're like, "This is remarkable." Thank God it's not us.

• 26:28Josh Clark?

  Everything's better when you're drinking.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Alright, so, he recognizes Tacoma, which apparently everyone in this room could do.

• 26:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, right. We were impressed by that, but it's nothing.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Uh, occasionally-

• 26:41Josh Clark?

  He went, "Smells like Tacoma."

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Uh, so, all of these are sort of clues, though. If he recognized Tacoma, he knew about the Air Force Base, that clearly maybe the guy's kind of from the area.

• 26:56Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Might be a clue later on. So, uh, Mucklaw, at this point, asked Dan Cooper, she said, "Do you have a grudge against our airline, sir?" And he said, "No, ma'am, I don't have a grudge against your airline, I just have a grudge." Critic.

• 27:09Josh Clark?

  Right. She was like-

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, like they did.

• 27:15Josh Clark?

  So, back on the ground, the FBI's like going crazy, the local cops are going crazy, everybody's going crazy, trying to get 200 grand in cash together. Turns out, that was the easiest part of this whole thing. So, Northwest Orient's, um, president at the time, Donald Nyrop-

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Any Nyrops in the, uh, house? No?

• 27:35Josh Clark?

  He would have been in Minnesota.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 27:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  But I'm convinced that someone in here is gonna be related to someone in this story.

• 27:41Josh Clark?

  Oh, I am too.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm just waiting-

• 27:43Josh Clark?

  I am waiting for somebody standing to be like, "That's a lie."

• 27:47Speaker 02

  Or for someone to stand up and say, "I am D.B. Cooper."

• 27:49Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  That would be amazing. We'd have to come up with a different show tomorrow.

• 27:54Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Or just bring him along.

• 27:57Josh Clark?

  Sure. And here he is, everybody.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:01Josh Clark?

  So Donald Nyrop, the president of Northwest Orient, he's like, "Yeah, sure, we'll totally pay that. We have a huge insurance policy on this kind of thing." Apparently Northwest had to pay like 20 grand and their insurance company paid out 180 grand. And they tapped Sea First Bank, which had a downtown branch. And in this downtown branch, they had a really great idea. They had stacks of $20 bills in varying amounts so that it looked like a nervous teller ran into the back and like put some 20s together in the event of a bank robbery, right? And then would come out and be like, "Here you go, bank robber. You're getting off scot-free." But it turns out that every serial number on every one of those 20s had been recorded.

• 28:45Josh Clark?

  So it worked for bank robberies, worked just as well for skyjackings as well. So they had the money, no problems. The parachutes were just very difficult.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was actually the harder part.

• 28:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Back in 1971, the big recreational skydiving craze had not yet taken hold. It happened here and there.

• 29:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  But the manager at Sea-Tac said, "I got a guy. Don't you worry." He's got an operation called Seattle Sky Sports in Issaquah.

• 29:13Josh Clark?

  Anybody from Issaquah?

• 29:17Josh Clark?

  Shout out to Issaquah.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Why do you call it Seattle Sky Sports? Did they mooch off of Seattle? Yeah?

• 29:25Josh Clark?

  Off of the teat of Seattle.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  He's like, "I got a guy." His name is Earl Kosse. And he agreed to help. Little side note, Earl Kosse was actually murdered three years ago. Yeah.

• 29:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Apparently he has no- Chuck likes to bring the room down.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  I know. We're all having too much fun.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  He got killed by a blow to the head in his garage, but apparently, you know, some Cooperists that are still active today on the internet, you know, these conspiracy dudes.

• 29:55Josh Clark?

  That's how they type.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  That is. Everyone did it. I love that. Everybody. See? You can all be conspiracy theorists. Get out your tin foil hat. Although women can't be because they're too smart. It's always guys. Did you know?

• 30:13Speaker 02

  So Earl Costi was killed, but they think it has nothing to do with it, even though Cooperists are like, "Are you sure they're trying to silence a man?"

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  So Costi-

• 30:26Josh Clark?

  That was pretty great, man.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Very well timed.

• 30:31Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  So Costi called his, uh, his operation and to the, to the dude working there and said, "Hey, can you get together these parachutes? I need two fronts and two backs." The guy said, "Sure, brah." And, um, in his haste, he packs three regular chutes. Well, not three regular, he packs one military chute.

• 30:53Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  Two regular chutes.

• 30:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  And one thing that I still don't understand called a dummy chute.

• 31:00Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  That doesn't open.

• 31:02Josh Clark?

  No. So like if you were working at Seattle Sky Sports in Issaquah, you would get really, really sick of having to fold up the whole parachute every time somebody was training, throwing out the pilot chute, which is just the little chute that comes out first and pulls the bigger chute out, right? If all you're trying to do is throw that part out, you don't need the bigger chute. So if you're an employee at Seattle Sky Sports in Issaquah, you may have the idea that you should just sew the bigger part shut. There should be no parachute that has like the, the most important part sewn shut, right?

• 31:38Speaker 02

  We decided that is our rule. Every parachute should open.

• 31:42Josh Clark?

  Right. But this is the thing, and they're called dummy chutes. The thing is, everybody's like, "Oh, we got it covered. We'll just put a big X on it." And everybody will know it's a dummy chute. So the, one of these dummy chutes made it into the four chutes that were delivered to DB Cooper. So the money and the chutes go in a cop car and he does a donuts getting out, like in front of the plane and gets out and, uh, stands outside and, um, waits for the plane to land, I should say. So when they get everything together, they let Flight 305 know that they've come and get it, basically. And, um, they, they prepare to land. And DB Cooper does something very smart.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, he, uh, he said, "You know what? I bet you there's gonna be snipers on the ground because I've seen a movie or two. I've seen Black Sunday." Anyone? No?

• 32:32Josh Clark?

  Didn't that come out like five or six years later?

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 32:35Josh Clark?

  Uh huh.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  Actually, I'll have to look that up.

• 32:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think that was 76.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  You know this?

• 32:44Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  He said, "I have a dream about a movie one day that would be called Black Sunday." "And there's gonna be snipers at that airport, so have everybody put the shades down on the windows." "They're all drunk, they don't care." "They won't ask any questions." "And so they did so, which turned out to be a pretty good move, because there were, in fact, snipers."

• 33:05Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. So the plane lands, and no one's allowed to get off yet. Cooper says, "Hey Tina, do me a solid. Go out and get the money and the chutes, and come back with them, okay? Then we can let the passengers off." And Muklaou leaves the plane, and at this point, and this is one of the first reasons why Tina Muklaou is one of our heroes. Once she's off the plane, she could've been like, "So long, chumps, see you in hell."

• 33:33Josh Clark?

  Which may have been a little harsh, had she said that with an earshot of somebody in this hostage situation. She could've thought it. Her actions could've said as much. She didn't. She got the chutes, she got the money, and she essentially traded herself for the hostages and went back on the plane.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  I would've been so out of there.

• 33:52Josh Clark?

  That's metal. Chuck would've said out loud, "See you in hell, Flight 305."

• 33:57Speaker 02

  I would've walked straight to baggage claim and, or the ground transportation and said, "Take me to Cousin Ike's, I need some loose leaf tea."

• 34:05Speaker 02

  "Good luck, good luck with the skyjacking."

• 34:07Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, but she came back, which is amazing.

• 34:10Josh Clark?

  She did come back. So she traded herself for these hostages, and the hostages were allowed to leave, and so too were Alice Hancock and Florence Schaffner. The rest of the crew was basically like, "There's no reason for you to stay here, so go." So it was down to Schaffner and Cooper. And then in the cockpit, Radzak and Scott, right? And Scott and Radzak repaid Tina Mucklau by staying themselves. There was a rope ladder, actually, that they could have climbed out of. They had almost no interaction whatsoever with DB Cooper. They could have, at their leisure, they could have put on bathing suits and climbed out this rope ladder and laid on the tarmac for a while. And then gone to the safety of like the FBI barricade.

• 34:55Josh Clark?

  And they didn't, they stuck around and they like, were like, we're gonna see this hijacking through.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, in my, like, in my comedic mind's eye, I see them getting out on the rope swing, or rope ladder.

• 35:07Josh Clark?

  That's different. Rope swing.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  That would be amazing.

• 35:11Josh Clark?

  They may have like-

• 35:12Speaker 02

  It's like a tire swing on the front of the plane. They get off on the rope ladder, Tina Mucklau never comes back and DB Cooper's just sitting on the plane by himself.

• 35:20Josh Clark?

  He's like, "Oh, it happened again."

• 35:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  Is he typing?

• 35:27Josh Clark?

  No.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Oh, no, that's-

• 35:28Josh Clark?

  He's going like this.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  I didn't know they had a rope ladder. That's crazy.

• 35:34Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  What's that for?

• 35:36Josh Clark?

  Don't be naive, Chuck.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  I know.

• 35:38Josh Clark?

  Every airplane has a rope ladder in the cockpit.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Wake up, man.

• 35:42Josh Clark?

  It's fashioned out of like, old cheats.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  So, uh, the FAA actually had a, their chief psychiatrist on the ground. And this dude does a quick analysis, you know, like, let me do one of those movie readings of who this guy is and what's gonna happen. And he says, "You know what's gonna happen is, you're gonna give this guy the money and the parachutes, you're gonna go up there in the plane, he's gonna jump out and blow up the plane, uh, and just let everyone know that."

• 36:15Josh Clark?

  Right, he's gonna force-

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Tell the pilot and copilot that this is what's coming.

• 36:18Josh Clark?

  Right, he's gonna force Mucklau to jump with him and then blow up the plane afterward, right? But yeah, make sure the, make sure the cockpit knows. And then he added, and he probably has some sort of fixation on longer-than-usual nipples, so make sure he's not exposed to those because he has some sort of fetish based on his experience with his mother.

• 36:44Josh Clark?

  Because it's a 1971 psychoanalyst for the FAA. Hey, if I had done that in a German accent, it would have sunk in even faster.

• 36:59Josh Clark?

  Did you tell them that? Make sure you tell them that, guys. Is that all right?

• 37:06Speaker 02

  I'm gonna go ahead and say now what I'm gonna say in like an hour backstage.

• 37:09Josh Clark?

  All right.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  That was amazing.

• 37:11Josh Clark?

  Was it? Thank you. I thought that's not what you were gonna say, actually.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  I didn't see that one coming.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  You got me.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  When you... yeah. I had no idea where you were going.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  Literally, you said "longer than usual nipples", and I went in my head, I went, "Am I... is this happening?"

• 37:39Josh Clark?

  You're like Josh. Josh.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  "Am I still in Atlanta? Is the trip... am I asleep?"

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Pure gold, buddy.

• 37:49Josh Clark?

  Thank you.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. If you've been thinking about securing your home, there's no better time to protect it with SimpliSafe. Right now, you can save 70% on a new system, their biggest savings of the year. You've heard us talk about SimpliSafe before, and you know it's designed to keep threats away from the door and your loved ones safe in the first place. If you thought about SimpliSafe at all, now is the time to finally secure your home.

• 38:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break-in is already underway, SimpliSafe is built to stop it before it starts. Their agents intervene in under 30 seconds, speaking through the camera to stop an intruder in their tracks and calling for urgent 911 dispatch when it's needed most.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  That's right, and SimpliSafe has an offer for our listeners now with their biggest savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/stuff. That's simplisafe.com/stuff, and when you order, write in the code "STUFF" at checkout. It tells them we sent you, and it really helps the show. SimpliSafe: Ahead of Crime, in Real Time.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Hey everybody, the holidays are coming up, so let us throw this out there. Are you prepared to host friends or family? Like, really prepared? Because there's a difference between having people stay at your house and properly hosting them.

• 39:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's what we thought. So maybe it's time for a little refresh. Well, we have a tip. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home, so you can host and celebrate without the stress.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  That's right. Whether you're just swapping out a busted appliance or going all in, on a top-to-bottom home makeover for the holidays, Wayfair has you covered. Thousands of products, every style, every budget.

• 39:42Josh Clark?

  And it's all built for real life. Every item is hand-vetted by specialists with a 10-point quality inspection. And on top of that, with over 20 million verified 5-star reviews, you can have total confidence in all the picks you make.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  So remember, when refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Just head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 40:11Josh Clark?

  Hey everybody, the best pieces in your closet are the ones you can count on. Whether you're heading to work, or going out, or keeping things casual, and this time of year, Quince makes finding something great for everyone else just as easy. This holiday season, it's where you want to shop for yourself and everyone on your list.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  That's right. And you know what? Quince focuses on high-quality staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. All timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays.

• 40:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, plus, everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you can give luxury-quality pieces without the luxury price tag.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com, where you can get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK as well. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was stuff you should know. It's the best way to support the show.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Where are we? I am so thrown.

• 41:32Josh Clark?

  So, we said Cooper was cool, right?

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:35Josh Clark?

  He had the cool head. He was so cool, he ordered food for the crew during the refueling process.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a nice guy.

• 41:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  You want to know who else is cool is Tina Mucklaw.

• 41:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Because, once they released the passengers and they got the money onboard, she sat back down and he offered her a couple of the stacks of money. And she said, "Well, you go ahead and say it."

• 41:59Josh Clark?

  No tipping allowed.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Smooth.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Again, had it been me, well, first of all, I would have been an Uncle Ices by then. But if I was dumb enough to get back on, I would be like, "Yeah, pay it forward."

• 42:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah, just two stacks of bills?

• 42:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:16Josh Clark?

  What gives, jerk? I want half.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  She's amazing. So, the plane's being refueled. He passed along a request, a very specific request for what's to happen when they go to take off. He said, "I want to take off with that aft staircase that I know is back there, down in the jump off the plane position." And they said, "You can't take off with the plane, you can't take off with the door down." And he said, "Well, can you check on that? Are you sure?" And they said, "No, you can't do that." And he said, "Are you super sure?" And they said, "No, you can't do that." He said, "All right." And they said, "Oh, but, once you're up there, you can totally lower it and jump out." And he said, "Well, why didn't we just start there? Because that's really the only thing that matters."

• 42:57Josh Clark?

  He's like, "Fine, fine." And then the pilot's like, "Well, where do you want to go?" And Dan Cooper says, "Mexico City, let's say." And the pilot goes, "Well, that's kind of far. We're gonna have to refuel. Is Reno okay?" And Dan Cooper goes, "I don't know how I can get this across any more clearly. I'm jumping out of the plane the next time we go up." "Fly wherever you want. Just fly southward."

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. So they refuel the plane and the only time Dan Cooper gets a little, a little ruffled is when it takes a little long for his liking and he says, "It shouldn't take this long, let's get the show on the road."

• 43:39Josh Clark?

  Right. He picked up, for one of the few times, he picked up the cockpit, or the cabin to cockpit phone and said, "Let's get the show on the road." I would have screamed it and like hit the phone and then hit myself in the head with it and then just started crying and been like, "It's never gonna work, this is never gonna work."

• 43:55Speaker 02

  I think as well established, we'd be the worst skyjackers ever.

• 43:58Josh Clark?

  And hostages.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, just get, no, I don't want any part of it. He also gives them instructions on how to fly the plane, which is getting really specific. He said, "Don't go any higher than 10,000 feet, set your wing flaps at 15 degrees," which apparently, we learned, is an angle that only the 727-100 could position those wing flaps.

• 44:19Josh Clark?

  Which everyone in this room knows, because it's a Boeing.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Sure. And he said, "Don't go any faster than 190 miles per hour, 200 knots." So that means they're gonna be flying slow and low, like you're cooking ribs, or jumping off a plane, because that means the cabin isn't pressurized and that means when you open that door, you're not just gonna suck everything out, it's still skydivable. Yeah?

• 44:47Josh Clark?

  Oh, that's the terminology.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:50Josh Clark?

  So Cooper had some problems, right? He had specifically asked for a knapsack and the feds had given him the 200 grand in a bank bag, which as we all know is a very unwieldy, clumsy bag, right? It's like a canvas bag, there's nothing to it. What do you, like tuck it under your arm? What are you supposed to do with that, right? So he's like, "Well, I need to make a handle for this thing, I'll harvest one of these parachutes for its rigging." And he chose the pink one.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Which, the pink one was actually the best one of all of them. Yeah, cuz there was the dummy chute, the military chute, and then- A so-so chute. Is that what we're gonna call it? Yeah. The medium chute? Yeah. And then the pink one, which, like Josh said, is the best one, so he cuts the stuff loose, he makes a handle for it. Things are happening at this point. They move to the rear of the plane, he and Tina Mucklaw. And he says, you know, "I think I need help lowering the staircase," so she goes back there with him. She's a little freaked out at this point. She's super freaked out. Like, she was calm and cool, but like, it's go time. And she thinks she's gonna get sucked out, rightfully so, cuz she didn't understand the physics of, you know, the plane being that low and that slow. Or- She didn't know they were cooking ribs.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  She was like, "To hell with physics, I am still freaked out." Well, yeah, exactly. We're about to lower a staircase at 10,000 feet. Why did I mention physics? Right. Exactly.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  So she gets back there, and he said, she said, "Can I at least have some of that rope? So I can tie myself to the interior of this plane." Like, that's how helpful she was. She's like, "Just let me lash myself to the plane, and I'll help you." Right. Yeah. I just spit, like, all the way across that table. I spit earlier, it's fine. Oh, okay, good.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  We should learn to sync those up. Right.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Like in Vegas. That's what I was just thinking. Yeah. Man, we are in sync tonight. My god.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  Except, well, never mind.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  So, she asks for some rope to lash herself in, and he goes, at this point, "You know what? Never mind." He literally, like, this is the quote, he goes- Never mind. Never mind. He said, "You know what? You just go back up to the cockpit, and you see that first-class curtain, just don't come any further back. I got it from there." He turns back around, looks, and then he turns back around to where she was, and he just sees, like, a pile of dust where she was just standing. She was, like, in the cockpit, all of a sudden. And so, it's go time, in the cockpit, at 7:42 PM. The little light comes on that says, "Door ajar," I guess.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  And, uh...

• 47:28Speaker 02

  They said, the pilots were like, "Tina, like, let's call back one more time."

• 47:33Josh Clark?

  She's like, "No, you can't call him." And they're like, "No, really, we should call."

• 47:36Speaker 02

  "We can totally call him."

• 47:37Josh Clark?

  Like, the FAA shrink said, like, "He might blow us up." He said some other weird stuff, too, but he said...

• 47:44Josh Clark?

  Like, "He's gonna blow us up. We should really butter this guy up."

• 47:47Speaker 02

  That's right. And we could've left on that rope swing, and we stayed because of you.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Rope ladder.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  So they call.

• 47:57Josh Clark?

  They do call, and the pilot's like, "Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring."

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Oh, am I Cooper?

• 48:02Josh Clark?

  Yes. "Ring, ring."

• 48:03Speaker 02

  He let it ring a couple of times.

• 48:04Josh Clark?

  "Ring, ring. Ring, ring."

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Uh, Dan Cooper, hijacker.

• 48:10Josh Clark?

  "Uh, Mr. Cooper, uh, we wanna make sure your flight is as comfortable as possible." "Is there anything we can do to help you back there to make your hijacking more successful, sir?"

• 48:23Speaker 02

  "No." Click.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  I know, it's kinda rude. He said, "No," hung up, and then at 8:12 PM, the crew felt the plane kinda jiggle a little bit, as if someone had jumped off the rear of it, and they said, "Tina, go check."

• 48:42Speaker 02

  "We're flying the plane."

• 48:43Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  She's like, "Wait a minute, only one of you is flying."

• 48:45Josh Clark?

  "No, it takes both of us." "You don't know."

• 48:50Speaker 02

  And that's it. So from the moment that Tina Mucklall left, "Shut that first-class curtain," nobody, to anyone's knowledge, ever saw Dan Cooper again.

• 48:58Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  But that's not the end of the show.

• 49:00Josh Clark?

  No, it's not. So, there was a manhunt, right?

• 49:05Josh Clark?

  So, Dan Cooper had pretty clearly signaled his intentions that he was going to jump off the back of the 727, and the FBI was like, "We need to scramble some jets. Let's get some fighter jets that are in the area. We're gonna scramble them to go follow the 727."

• 49:19Speaker 02

  What is this scrambling? I never get that.

• 49:21Josh Clark?

  It's like... It's like, "Go."

• 49:24Speaker 02

  I know, but they'll...

• 49:26Speaker 02

  It just sounds... It sounds chaotic, like, "They're scrambling jets."

• 49:30Josh Clark?

  Well, I think that's, I think that's the point. Like, people are supposed to run around and bump into each other and fall out, and then get up and get in their jets and fly off.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  I would say...

• 49:37Josh Clark?

  But that's scrambling. That's classic scrambling.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  I would've renamed it. It would be like, "Activate the jets."

• 49:42Josh Clark?

  That's not bad. That's not bad at all.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Scramble the jets.

• 49:49Josh Clark?

  Sounds desperate, you're right.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Activate the jets.

• 49:52Josh Clark?

  So, either, however the jets were brought into this picture, there was a problem with them in that they were way too fast for the 727, which is putzing along at 190 miles an hour. Then all of a sudden, there's a jet that goes,

• 50:11Josh Clark?

  and then the next one comes,

• 50:14Josh Clark?

  and they're like, "What are we gonna do?" "Well, we'll stick a helicopter on them." This is like Goldilocks, the helicopter was too slow.

• 50:24Josh Clark?

  727s just putzing along.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:27Josh Clark?

  People are going,

• 50:29Josh Clark?

  trying to catch up, nothing happening.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  They should've scrambled the 727.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  And just followed right behind them.

• 50:35Josh Clark?

  That makes sense, as a matter of fact.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  With headlights on.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Right?

• 50:44Speaker 02

  So they're scrambling.

• 50:45Josh Clark?

  The point is, nobody saw Dan Cooper jump when he jumped. So they used that 8:12 PM oscillation to kind of figure out where they should start looking. And they zeroed in on a place called Ariel, Washington, near the Lewis River. Anybody from Ariel? Good, because we got Ariel jokes.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Nobody from Ariel. Anyone ever heard of the Lewis River? Oh, okay.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  So, they get this manhunt going. They're combing, they're scrambling and combing. Those are the two things you do if you're in the FBI.

• 51:17Josh Clark?

  It was a massive manhunt, too. There was like a thousand troops and cops combing this area.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, no one from Seattle PD, of course. They were just sitting around stoned.

• 51:29Josh Clark?

  Hanging out in Issaquah.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Waiting for Rambo.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Here's another fun fact. There was a millionaire, a local millionaire, who we don't know. Do you know the name?

• 51:40Josh Clark?

  No, I've looked. If anybody knows, please tell us. Just stand up and say it with dignity.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  It was on, no. It was on the news, so this local millionaire says, "You know what? That's near Lake Merwin, and I'm going to rent a submarine." Because I'm a millionaire, and that's, you know, we're...

• 52:00Josh Clark?

  That's what I do.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:02Josh Clark?

  I don't work, I'm a millionaire.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  He got a submarine, and he trolled the depths of Lake Merwin. He said he rented a small submarine. Because he's not an extravagant local millionaire.

• 52:11Josh Clark?

  No, no.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  This twenty footer'll do.

• 52:15Josh Clark?

  Thrifty one. The twenty-five seems ostentatious. The hydraulics on it, who needs that in a submarine?

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Does it have a metal detector? Which would not have helped because it was cash bills.

• 52:27Josh Clark?

  Exactly. So you'd make a great local millionaire.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  I would. If only. Uh, the other weird thing that happened was the, um, the CIA got involved, which is a little bit strange.

• 52:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  And they scrambled the SR-71 Blackbird. Right?

• 52:46Josh Clark?

  They scrambled it several times.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, it was almost over easy.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Terrible.

• 52:58Josh Clark?

  Whoever said woo, you should be ashamed of that woo.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  It doesn't even make sense. Cause once you scramble it, it can't be over easy. Terrible joke, Chuck.

• 53:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's what I say. It's alright. Rebound, rebound.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Is this really happening? Did you talk about long nipples?

• 53:14Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  The SR-71 Blackbird was at the time, super secret. Uh, we all know about it now, but at the time, it was very secret.

• 53:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  And it was kind of a big deal to get this thing up in the air. So.

• 53:28Josh Clark?

  Especially multiple times.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:31Josh Clark?

  Like one time, it's like, you, your dad is the head of CIA and you're the head of Seattle PD. So you can make it happen maybe once, right? Multiple times, that's weird that the SR-71 was scrambled, right? The FBI is very studious and likes to do a lot of obvious stuff. So they interviewed everybody in the area with the last name of Cooper.

• 53:56Josh Clark?

  Which, there's like a square one.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 53:58Josh Clark?

  This is like square negative five.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, sure.

• 54:02Josh Clark?

  No, it's negative five. I looked it up.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  So you look up all the Coopers in the area and at this point they have a press conference. And if you've noticed, we've been calling this dude Dan Cooper the whole time.

• 54:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Because up until this time, he was just Dan Cooper. So they have a press conference and there's, it's sort of, I don't think we know who messed it up, right?

• 54:22Josh Clark?

  Well, it depends on who you ask.

• 54:25Speaker 02

  A cop.

• 54:26Josh Clark?

  Either a file clerk or a cop.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:29Josh Clark?

  Who's talking in front of a reporter.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  Gotcha.

• 54:31Josh Clark?

  Either UPI or AP, depending on who you ask. And they were saying, like, what Cooper could have done something like this.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:40Josh Clark?

  And somebody said, well, there's a Dan Cooper who's a cat burglar in the area. That's a terrible suggestion. Cat burglar does not go to hijacker, you know? And this reporter was like, what a scoop. And hit the wire with cops looking for DB Cooper.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, he said DB Cooper.

• 54:59Josh Clark?

  Did I say Dan Cooper?

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's alright.

• 55:00Josh Clark?

  The little part of my brain was like, you just said Dan.

• 55:04Josh Clark?

  Let's start over. So, a cop was talking in front of an AP reporter. And they said, what Cooper do you know could have done this? And the cop said, well, there's this DB Cooper.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  What did you just say?

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Did you just say AD Cooper?

• 55:22Josh Clark?

  I said, there's a DB Cooper. I got it that time. He's a cat burglar. And the reporter said, this is hitting the wire. And he reported that the cops were looking for a DB Cooper. And it just changed from that point on.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he was never DB Cooper. It was literally a mistake. So that's why we all know him as DB Cooper today. And the FBI actually, little smart, believe it or not. And they said, you know what, let's keep it that way. That way we'll know if any tips come in on a Dan Cooper, we'll know it's a hot lead. So it actually ended up kind of working in their favor.

• 55:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And anytime a tip like that came in, like the office prankster would come in with the facts and be like, hot lead, hot lead. It was like a joke around the Portland office.

• 56:12Josh Clark?

  Everybody loved Richard.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  And this will...

• 56:16Speaker 02

  This will come up later, too, when it comes time to solve the crime. They, later on, the FBI learned that there was a comic book in the 1950s about a Dan Cooper, who was a Canadian jet pilot. And it was a Belgian comic, which is a little weird. But it was, you know, there was literally a Dan Cooper who jumped out of planes in comic book form.

• 56:38Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Could be a clue, maybe.

• 56:40Josh Clark?

  And that's a niche comic, right?

• 56:41Speaker 02

  I would say so.

• 56:43Josh Clark?

  Printed in Belgium, in the French, about a Canadian fighter pilot.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  In the French?

• 56:48Josh Clark?

  All they had to do was find, like, the 10 people who knew of that comic and be like, "What'd you do? We know it was one of you."

• 56:57Josh Clark?

  And so the FBI had a pretty clear belief, very openly stated belief, that DB Cooper died in the jump. It was just the line that they took right off the bat. They're like, "There's no way this guy survived." And the, he wasn't the lead agent on the case, but he became the most famous agent, Ralph Himmelsbach.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  Any Himmelsbachs in the house? Nope. You're a liar, sir.

• 57:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you're a liar. So, Himmelsbach, like I said, he wasn't the lead agent, but he was out of the Seattle office, and he became the most famous agent associated with it. And he actually gave the case its official name, Norjack, which is stupid.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  No, Northwest Jack, Skyjack.

• 57:40Josh Clark?

  Right, but remove the C. It's just, just call it the DB Cooper case, you know? Or Heist even better. So he self-published a book in 1986 about the case. And Himmelsbach said he thinks that DB Cooper didn't even get his chute open, that he plunged to his death and hit the forest floor with such impact that he basically was buried immediately, with the parachute still attached, and maybe even the money. And that was Himmelsbach's take.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  That was, excuse me.

• 58:09Josh Clark?

  You gonna get that?

• 58:11Speaker 02

  I realized it wasn't a twist-off. And then I realized I had my lighter from the loose-leaf tea place.

• 58:17Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 58:21Josh Clark?

  Nice going.

• 58:24Josh Clark?

  You just saw the sum of Chuck's college education.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  So, Cooper had jumped from the plane. Did he live, did he not? The odds are against him in a lot of ways. Outside, the temperature that night was 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

• 58:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Hey, we're in America, man. Just say 20 degrees.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right.

• 58:52Josh Clark?

  20 degrees. USA.

• 58:59Speaker 02

  At 10,000 feet, it was negative 7 degrees.

• 59:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Uh, and he was going 190 miles an hour. There was freezing rain. It was, there was like a quarter crescent, not a quarter crescent, a crescent moon.

• 59:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Those are two different things.

• 59:13Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  Crescent moon in the sky, but it was cloudy and rainy, so there probably was zero light.

• 59:17Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  It's freezing, he's 10,000 feet.

• 59:19Josh Clark?

  He's not dressed for the occasion.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  No, he's wearing loafers, he's wearing an overcoat, he's got this, he doesn't have this knapsack, so he's fashioned this weird kind of knapsack with this pink rope.

• 59:29Josh Clark?

  Plus, plus, the area he's jumping out into, and he's flying at 10,000 feet over the Cascades. Some of the Cascades, as you guys know, are higher than 10,000 feet. Very dangerous jump. And, there's a lot of pointy trees. I mean, the pointiest, am I right, Seattle? The pointiest trees are out.

• 59:52Josh Clark?

  Plus, despite what the FAA guy said, the FAA psychiatrist.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:57Josh Clark?

  He did not leave the bomb to be detonated after he jumped off. He took it with him. Bank bag, bomb, overcoat, loafers, parachute.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  Pointy trees.

• 1:00:08Josh Clark?

  That was my DB Cooper jump impression.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  And by the way, the FBI later on, they interviewed Muck Lock, or, who was the one who saw the?

• 1:00:17Josh Clark?

  Schaafner.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, Schaafner saw the bomb, like, you just did. And she said, "Yeah, you have these red sticks taped together," and they went, "Huh, that wasn't dynamite. Dynamite isn't red. You've seen too many cartoons. Dynamite is tan. Road flares are red." So, it was more than likely a fake bomb with an alarm clock and road flares.

• 1:00:37Josh Clark?

  Plus, DB Cooper did not help his cause by his choice of parachutes, right? He, um, so he chose a military chute as his main chute. It was not a great chute. The ripcord wasn't as easily accessed as the recreational chutes, and once it deployed, you can't steer it very well. It was not the best choice. Even worse was his choice of the dummy chute for his front reserve chute.

• 1:01:03Josh Clark?

  He took the best chute and gutted it to make a handle for the bank bag, left the second best chute and chose the two worst chutes to jump out with, right? So...

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  I didn't know you couldn't steer a military chute, but it makes total sense.

• 1:01:15Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. They're just like, "Go for it, pal."

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because if I was in the military, I would steer, I would be like, "Well, why don't we go over here instead?"

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  "I see a lot of guns down there."

• 1:01:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  "Let's take it this way."

• 1:01:29Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  So they just drop you, apparently.

• 1:01:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Man, I guess they know what they're doing, though. So, uh, some other theories, uh, because it's, uh, Washington, believe it or not, some people actually posited that he was eaten by Sasquatch.

• 1:01:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  With a straight face.

• 1:01:49Josh Clark?

  I mean, let's be honest, how many of you in here were thinking the same thing?

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:01:56Josh Clark?

  Uh, some other people say, "Well, he was clearly burned up by the jet exhaust, because when you come down the stairs of a 727, the rear jet engine's right in front of you, and it would have been 700, 800 degrees right there." Um, but the FBI conducted a test, uh, right afterward, where they took a 720, a 727 up, and they took a 200-pound sled.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  A 200-pound prison victim.

• 1:02:22Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:02:23Speaker 02

  Prison victim.

• 1:02:24Josh Clark?

  He was condemned, don't worry about it, it's fine. And, uh, they said, "Yep," and threw it off, and they found that the 200-pound sled, uh, that's a euphemism, I guess, now.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:02:37Josh Clark?

  Uh, went straight down, so it didn't come in contact in any way with the jet exhaust. So it kind of did away with this idea that he burned up.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  Uh, well, it was kind of good news, bad news, though, because what it did do, at least, was it mimicked that same oscillation.

• 1:02:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  So they're like, "Oh, you know what? It was the exact same thing happened when you were in the air." So that 8:12 PM jump time, like, it was probably right on the money, so we know probably where he might have landed.

• 1:03:02Josh Clark?

  Right. So there's a lot of questions remaining, right? And, um, there were some clues left behind. The thing that really kind of confounded the FBI at first was that they combed the area where they were looking for him with like a thousand people just combing this area. This SR71 Blackbird circling around looking. They didn't find anything. He had left a couple of things onboard the plane, right? He'd left his clip-on tie, which was his second biggest secret that night.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Well, that's what you do before you jump out.

• 1:03:37Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  You know, you take it off and you throw it.

• 1:03:39Josh Clark?

  It was a clip-on all along.

• 1:03:42Speaker 02

  You unbutton that button and you're like, "I'm out of here."

• 1:03:44Josh Clark?

  Right. He left eight cigarette butts of his Raleigh brand cigarettes. He'd smoked eight over five hours and all eight butts have since been lost, right? They found a hair on the headrest.

• 1:03:58Josh Clark?

  The thing is, the FBI traded in fingerprints. That was their big thing at the time. And Dan Cooper had been very smart to not leave a single print on any of the cigarette butts.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, true, but there was fingerprints on the in-flight, I guess, SkyMall magazine.

• 1:04:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Josh Clark?

  R.I.P. SkyMall.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 1:04:20Josh Clark?

  It's not around.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:04:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, SkyMall's gone. Did you guys not know this?

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:04:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah. That's why I said, "R.I.P. SkyMall."

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  I know, but I just, I don't know. Where am I gonna get my putting green that doubles as a cat feeder?

• 1:04:41Josh Clark?

  My friend, you can just go to Frontgate, because Frontgate has everything everyone needs.

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 1:04:48Josh Clark?

  Frontgate, they advertised in SkyMall, but they have stores, too.

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  I don't even know where I am right now.

• 1:04:56Josh Clark?

  That's Uncle Ike's.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  What year is it?

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  No. So, it would be seven years before any trace of the hijacking, any real clue turned up. And it was in 1978, there were some hunters in Oregon hunting animals, I guess.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Right? Unless it was the most dangerous game.

• 1:05:21Josh Clark?

  Right. You don't know, it's Oregon.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  You never know. They're less civilized people than we have here. Uh, they found a plastic, uh, instruction placard showing how to lower the AF staircase in the woods. So this is like, a really good clue.

• 1:05:38Josh Clark?

  It was, but it didn't, it didn't lead to anything new.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  Well, no, it was definitely from Flight 305, which was, I guess I'm saying it was cool.

• 1:05:46Josh Clark?

  It was cool. Like, if you were the hunter, you'd be like, "I'm keeping this."

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:05:50Josh Clark?

  But, um, it, it was on the flight path, so it didn't generate any new leads, but it generated a lot of renewed interest in the case, because believe it or not, the DB Cooper case had kind of fallen to the wayside in the last, like, seven years. People just didn't think much about it anymore.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  It was a gold major skyjacking.

• 1:06:06Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly, so it was like a dime a dozen. But all of a sudden, everybody's like, "Oh, we gotta make a movie. Who's the biggest movie star we've got? Treat Williams. Make him as DB Cooper." And that's what they did.

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  Has anyone ever seen The Pursuit of DB Cooper?

• 1:06:22Josh Clark?

  No, that's right.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Nobody?

• 1:06:24Josh Clark?

  That's right, everybody. God bless you, Seattle.

• 1:06:28Josh Clark?

  Smart town, Chuck.

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  I figured here, like, somebody, because it was a local thing, 1981, very, very bad movie was made.

• 1:06:38Josh Clark?

  Several.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  Starring Treat Williams and Robert Duvall, right?

• 1:06:43Josh Clark?

  Whose mom needed surgery at the time. To lay off.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  So here's what you, well, first of all, if you want to know how big a piece of garbage this movie is, it had three directors. And if you know anything about filmmaking, if you have more than one director, it's probably a really bad movie for one reason or another. If it has three, then it's guaranteed to be bad. But all you need to do is go home tonight, when you get back to your, uh, to your houseboat.

• 1:07:11Josh Clark?

  In Issaquah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  Does anyone here live on a houseboat? No?

• 1:07:17Josh Clark?

  Woo!

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  Okay, cuz I was gonna ask if I could come stay over. Cuz those things are awesome.

• 1:07:24Josh Clark?

  That was just Sleepless in Seattle. You've seen that too many times.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  Oh, no, they exist.

• 1:07:30Speaker 02

  Cuz I tried to stay in an Airbnb, actually, before I came here.

• 1:07:33Josh Clark?

  On a houseboat?

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I totally did. And I ended up in some stupid hotel downtown.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Go home to your Youtubes. Type in Pursuit of D.B. Cooper and watch the first three minutes. Because this movie literally starts with the point from where D.B. Cooper jumps out of the back of the plane.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  It starts from the point where we know nothing else that happened. It's literally fictional from that point forward.

• 1:08:03Josh Clark?

  The slogan on the movie poster is "back schmacks."

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  So, it starts with Pursuit of D.B. Cooper and has Robert Duvall, the names all come up and all that. And it's got a Jew's heart plane. It's like dong, dong, dong, dong, dong, dong, dong, dong. And Treat Williams, it's a terrible voiceover recording. You just hear, "Yee-haw!" And he jumps off the thing, cuz that's what you do when you jump off a plane and you're skyjacking. He parachutes down in the night, and he crashes through some trees and lands. And then there's this really little sad, "Yahoo!"

• 1:08:43Josh Clark?

  Everything was sad about that.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  And Treat Williams gets on the ground and he takes out a cigar. And he takes out a lighter, cuz that's what you do too when you successfully landed after skyjacking. He doesn't light the lighter, though. He rips open the money bag. He takes out a hundred dollar bill and he lights that. And then he uses that to light a cigar. And that is how that movie opens.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  And it goes downhill from there. And Robert Duvall is, he's just, you can tell.

• 1:09:13Josh Clark?

  He starts every scene going like this.

• 1:09:18Josh Clark?

  Let's do it.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  It's so bad, but I do encourage you. It was like, I mean, when I was a kid and it came out, it was like, we got HBO on my street. And it was a really big deal when we got cable and HBO. So I would literally watch any movie that came out.

• 1:09:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  It was like, Krull, that's on, I'll watch Krull.

• 1:09:32Josh Clark?

  Krull, hey, hey, hey. Krull was okay, man.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  War Games, great movie.

• 1:09:36Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  Pursuit of D.B. Cooper, why not?

• 1:09:39Josh Clark?

  I, I was not exposed to that.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Josh Clark?

  I think my mother shielded me from that movie.

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  Good for you, mom.

• 1:09:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  But watch the first two minutes on YouTube.

• 1:09:48Josh Clark?

  No, no.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. If you've been thinking about securing your home, there's no better time to protect it with SimpliSafe. Right now, you can save 70% on a new system, their biggest savings of the year. You've heard us talk about SimpliSafe before, and you know it's designed to keep threats away from the door and your loved ones safe in the first place. If you thought about SimpliSafe at all, now is the time to finally secure your home.

• 1:10:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break-in is already underway, SimpliSafe is built to stop it before it starts. Their agents intervene in under 30 seconds, speaking through the camera to stop an intruder in their tracks, and calling for urgent 911 dispatch when it's needed most.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  That's right, and SimpliSafe has an offer for our listeners now with their biggest savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/stuff. That's simplisafe.com/stuff, and when you order, write in the code STUFF at checkout. It tells them we sent you, and it really helps the show. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime, in real time.

• 1:11:06Josh Clark?

  Hey, everybody. The best pieces in your closet are the ones you can count on, whether you're heading to work, or going out, or keeping things casual. And this time of year, Quince makes finding something great for everyone else just as easy. This holiday season, it's where you want to shop for yourself and everyone on your list.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  That's right. And you know what? Quince focuses on high-quality staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. All timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays.

• 1:11:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, plus, everything at Quince is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you can give luxury-quality pieces without the luxury price tag.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com, where you can get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK as well. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was Stuff You Should Know. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:12:24Josh Clark?

  So, we're still talking about the placard, weren't we?

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  No, no, no. All right, we'll go to 1980 was the first real good clue turns up in 1980.

• 1:12:33Josh Clark?

  Right. And this is a big clue.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Big clue.

• 1:12:35Josh Clark?

  So there's a young lad named Brian Ingram. He was eight, I think, at the time.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:40Josh Clark?

  And his family was camping on Tina Bar. Are you guys familiar with Tina Bar? Do you guys know what that is?

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  The Columbia River?

• 1:12:46Josh Clark?

  The Columbia River?

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:48Josh Clark?

  So are we correct in understanding that you would just call it an island, not a bar? Okay, all right. So Tina Island, everywhere else, the Ingram family was camping, and Brian Ingram was fashioning a fire pit for his family. "Oh, father's going to love this fire pit. He'll be proud of me yet. Oh, father, won't you love me?"

• 1:13:12Josh Clark?

  And as he's like, as he's going like this to the sand, poor little eight-year-old, he turns up a stack of bills, several stacks of bills, actually, three. And these stacks of $20 bills total $5,880, and he's like, "Father..."

• 1:13:33Josh Clark?

  "Love me." And father takes those and starts looking at him, and he's like, "We should probably call the police." So they go and call the police.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, again, they call the Seattle Police, which evidently, all they do is forward calls to the FBI at this point.

• 1:13:47Josh Clark?

  They're like, "Seattle PD, please hold."

• 1:13:53Josh Clark?

  So the FBI is like, "Read us a serial number." And he reads one, and they're like, "Read us another." Reads another, and they're like, "That's DB Cooper money." And Ingram's father's like, "What did you say?" And they're like, "Nothing."

• 1:14:09Josh Clark?

  So the FBI gets their hands on it. And actually, we should say, it turns out, they let little Brian Ingram take some of the money, $3,000 of this money, actually.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is later on, they returned to little... Not bad, right? And you want to know what's even better? In 2008, little Brian Ingram sold that money on eBay for 37 grand.

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:14:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Take that, father. So, the thing is, this money showed up in a place where it should not have been. It showed up 20 miles south of Ariel, Washington, in another river. So they were looking here, in the Lewis River, right? Everybody knows Lewis River, Ariel, Washington, here. Tina Bar's down here, just a little south of Vancouver. Is my geography, my air geography right? Of Vancouver, Washington, everybody. Vancouver, Washington. Is that, is it like this? That's even more amazing.

• 1:15:09Josh Clark?

  This is what I suspected, and I looked it up on Google Maps, and they're like, "What do you mean Tina Bar, Josh?" So I wasn't able to conclusively find it. But I did have this idea that it somehow ended up above it. And an FBI hydrologist looked at this money, said-

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  The FBI has a hydrologist?

• 1:15:27Josh Clark?

  Right. "I'm retainer." Himmelsbach got a hold of him. And the guy was like, "So this stuff's only been exposed to the elements for a year, even though it was found, what, nine years after the robbery, right?"

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:41Josh Clark?

  "And it got here one of two ways," the guy said. So the Columbia River flooded in 1974?

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:48Josh Clark?

  And it was also dredged in like 1977. So one of those two probably got this here. But no one's ever said conclusively how it ended up where it was.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  So, it did, yeah, there you go.

• 1:15:59Josh Clark?

  I got it.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  Uh, it would be another 28 years before any more clues turned up. So that's a very long wait. Uh, in 2008, just eight short years ago, some kids, uh, were playing, uh, on their, was it their own land? In Amboy?

• 1:16:13Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:14Speaker 02

  Little south of Ariel. Anyone from Amboy? No.

• 1:16:17Josh Clark?

  I suspected not.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  Are we in Washington? Okay.

• 1:16:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but nobody's from Amboy.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  We got more response in Birmingham. No.

• 1:16:27Josh Clark?

  About Amboy?

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Josh Clark?

  They're like, "We like the sound of that."

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  So these kids were playing in the woods, uh, on their property and they said, "Oh, look at there, there's a parachute." And they start pulling out this parachute, uh, for like an hour, it's like a magic trick. And they finally get to the end of the parachute and they run and show Pa. And, and they say, "Pa, I found a parachute in the woods. What should we do?"

• 1:16:54Josh Clark?

  Right. And Pa recognized that this is the most exciting thing that ever happened in Amboy, Washington. Called the, the cops, who called the Seattle Police, who called the FBI. And the FBI did something smart. They're like, "Well, you know who would know if this was DB Cooper's parachute? Good old Earl Cossey."

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  That's right. He's not dead yet.

• 1:17:18Josh Clark?

  Not dead yet.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  Oh. Too soon? That's a good. He's not dead yet. That's celebratory. None of us are dead yet. Right?

• 1:17:35Josh Clark?

  That's a good, good way of looking at it, Chuck.

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  Good save.

• 1:17:38Josh Clark?

  Way to find the silver lining. So Earl Cossey looked at this thing and he was like, "No."

• 1:17:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, he said, "I'm sorry." He said, "Uh, Cooper's chute was nylon, that's clearly silk, uh, good try."

• 1:17:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he said, "This is, I, I know whose chute this is, actually."

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:54Josh Clark?

  It turns out that back in 1945, a jet pilot named Floyd Walling bailed out of his Corsair jet that was going down and parachuted out in the woods around Amboy, Washington, right? Which isn't too far from Ariel. And it wasn't Cooper's shoot. You guys all remember when they found that parachute, right? Like 2008, it wasn't that long ago. It was a big deal. And it wasn't his shoot, but it did suggest that possibly he could have made it. Because Floyd Walling had, and he walked out of the woods in terrible weather, just like DB Cooper would have had to. So it kind of shined a light on the whole thing again.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it kind of kicked some interest up. So, um, over the years, there have been many, many, many, many suspects. Like, we're talking over a thousand. The FBI won't even say how many suspects they've had. Or weirdly, people confessing to be DB Cooper. It's one of those strange things that people do.

• 1:18:50Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  Where they claim to be something that will send you to prison.

• 1:18:54Josh Clark?

  Well, a lot of them are already in prison, but they're in worse prison and hoping to go to good prison.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  No, it's true. Apparently, state prisoners will try to confess to federal crimes because the cinnamon buns are better in federal prison.

• 1:19:08Josh Clark?

  I was thinking cinnamon buns.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  Were you really?

• 1:19:09Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  That's because there's cinnamon buns in our green room.

• 1:19:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  Well, no, we even mentioned that in the prisons. That's like a commodity in prison, right? Cinnamon buns?

• 1:19:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's like currency.

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:19:21Josh Clark?

  Cinnamon buns and cigarettes. We know.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  So, there's a very famous sketch. If you go home, before you get on YouTube and look at the, uh, the first three minutes of that terrible movie, which you definitely need to do, just Google, get on the Googles and type in, uh, DB Cooper sketch. There's a very singular, famous sketch of DB Cooper.

• 1:19:47Josh Clark?

  It looks like Kevin Spacey. It looks a lot like Kevin Spacey.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, or Don Draper.

• 1:19:54Josh Clark?

  As Kevin Spacey.

• 1:19:57Speaker 02

  I think it would be Kevin Spacey as Don Draper.

• 1:19:59Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure. So if you go home and look at that, it's like, you know, got this kind of short hair guy. Looks like he's sort of from the 50s or 60s. He's got the hair, he's got the sunglasses on and the tie, the skinny tie. And that's the only sketch that they have of DB Cooper that they got from the flight attendant, specifically Tina Mucklaw, because she spent like five hours right next to the dude.

• 1:20:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  She, incidentally, was really messed up after this, understandably, and she went to be a nun in Oregon in the 1980s, which is a little weird. I didn't know they had convents in Oregon.

• 1:20:32Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  I can see they have convents everywhere.

• 1:20:34Josh Clark?

  Convent's everywhere.

• 1:20:35Speaker 02

  There's a convent right over in the alley back here.

• 1:20:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there's a convent behind us right now. But even worse than that, the Mother Superior, in an article I read at the convent, said, "She never really fit in here."

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:20:46Josh Clark?

  You're not supposed to say that if you're a Mother Superior. That's a Mother Inferior, if you ask me, you know?

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  Good one.

• 1:20:58Josh Clark?

  So...

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  Sorry, you go ahead.

• 1:20:59Josh Clark?

  No, you.

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  All right, if you look at some of the behavior that Cooper displayed, you're going to turn up some clues, and that's what the FBI does, to kind of examine what happened. He chose a military chute, which could mean one of two things. Either he was former military, which could narrow it down, or it could mean he has no idea what he's doing when it comes to jumping out of a plane.

• 1:21:19Josh Clark?

  Right, and the choice of that dummy chute would definitely suggest that, because even recreational skydivers say, like, even if you're just a military parachutist, you're going to see a huge X on a parachute and instinctively shy away from that parachute, you know?

• 1:21:34Speaker 02

  I thought it stood for extreme.

• 1:21:36Josh Clark?

  Right. Mountain Dew Extreme. So, a lot of people say, "I think he probably is ex-military, had some, like, parachuting experience, probably a paratrooper or something like that."

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:49Josh Clark?

  A lot of people point to the idea that he knew a lot about the plane. He knew about the wing flap degree that it could go to, he knew about altitude. A lot of the witnesses later on said that he clearly was very much aware of what was going on in the cabin. He just knew the plane very much. So, a lot of other people say, "This guy was probably an airline employee, maybe even a pilot, actually, based on the altitude and stuff that he gave them to fly."

• 1:22:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, and one of the weird things that he knew was that the 727-100 had an aft staircase. That you could lower and jump out of because this wasn't common knowledge at the time. Apparently, a small group of people knew this. You were either an employee of Boeing, or you may have been in the CIA. Because in the Vietnam War, we actually used a 727 over Cambodia, which is where we were not supposed to be. And they lowered that aft staircase of the 727 to drop supplies.

• 1:22:47Josh Clark?

  It's a go. You can't steer, but go.

• 1:22:50Speaker 02

  Well, and then there's the whole thing with the SR-71 Blackbird. So, a lot of Cooperists still say that he might have been secretly a member of the CIA.

• 1:23:00Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  Because he knew about the aft staircase. He knew about the, or the Blackbird was scrambled. So, they had like, some skin in the game.

• 1:23:06Josh Clark?

  Right. So, a lot of suspects have come and gone, and come back and stayed over the years. The FBI says about it, well, they won't say, but a lot of people say about a thousand, like Chuck said. But, one of the first ones to emerge was a dude named Richard McCoy. And, in February of 1972, I think four months after the DB Cooper heist, Richard McCoy hijacked a 727-100 flight. And he asked for $500,000 in cash, and he parachuted successfully out the back over Utah, right?

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:23:41Josh Clark?

  So, a lot of people say, "It's pretty similar."

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:45Josh Clark?

  Maybe that was DB Cooper.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  Well, and 500 grand, that, to me, that makes sense. Like, 200 grand worked out fine.

• 1:23:51Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  I should have asked for more to begin with.

• 1:23:53Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  So, let me try it again.

• 1:23:55Josh Clark?

  Let's try it again.

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  It turns out that he was a Green Beret in Vietnam, so that sort of fits with the whole profile. He looked a little bit like the sketch of Dan Cooper, and-

• 1:24:05Josh Clark?

  A little bit?

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. He was 29 years old, so he was much younger than Cooper, but he didn't look 29. I'll say that. He looked much older than that.

• 1:24:14Josh Clark?

  True.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  He looked more like Don Draper than Charles Manson.

• 1:24:17Josh Clark?

  That's true.

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  I'll say that.

• 1:24:19Josh Clark?

  Absolutely.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  So, this guy gets caught, actually, after pulling off this heist initially. And he goes to prison, and he makes a fake gun out of dental plaster from the dentist in the prison. And he takes the truck by force, and literally crashes through the front gate of the prison, and escapes, and is later killed in a shootout by cops.

• 1:24:41Josh Clark?

  Which is to say, Richard McCoy knew how to live.

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  He did.

• 1:24:45Josh Clark?

  (laughter)

• 1:24:48Speaker 02

  And die. And his family would later go on to say, actually, he was at home in Thanksgiving 1971. So it probably wasn't him.

• 1:24:57Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  Good suspect, though.

• 1:25:00Josh Clark?

  Suspect number two is named Dwayne Weber.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  Is this your guy? No, this isn't.

• 1:25:04Josh Clark?

  No, this isn't my guy. I like this guy, he's fine, but I don't like him, you know what I mean?

• 1:25:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:08Josh Clark?

  So Dwayne Weber was a career criminal, and the definition of a career criminal is one where you and your alias have both done time in prison.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:19Josh Clark?

  And he and his alias had done a combined 16 years, right? So he was on his deathbed, and his wife, Jo, came around and said, "How you doing?" It's like, "While I'm still dying, I have a confession for you that I'd like you to hear. I am Dan Cooper." And Jo's like, "I don't know who that is." And Dwayne blows up, they have a fight on his deathbed. Never speak of it again, and he dies nine days later. So Jo starts poking around after that. She's like, "Who is this Dan Cooper?" Which is a legitimate question after an experience like that that she went through.

• 1:25:59Speaker 02

  I would say so, and she finds out via internet, this is 1995, that Dan Cooper was DB Cooper. And she said, "You know what? I think that he was telling the truth. I think he was DB Cooper." Because, you know what? I remember in 1979, we were on a vacation, we were on a car trip. We were kind of right around the area where the hijacking, or I'm sorry, where the landing supposedly took place. And my husband stopped the car and just pointed and said, "You know what? That's where DB Cooper walked out of the woods."

• 1:26:33Josh Clark?

  Which is a weird thing to say on vacation.

• 1:26:35Speaker 02

  Very weird thing to say. It's even weirder that she didn't say, "What the hell are you talking about?"

• 1:26:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Agreed.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  There's another story. Later on, they were on another vacation.

• 1:26:46Josh Clark?

  No, this is the same vacation.

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  Oh, it was the same one?

• 1:26:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  All right, we'll just call this the communication vacation. The non-communication vacation, because they clearly didn't talk to one another. Because he stopped over the Columbia River on a bridge, literally stops on a bridge, gets out of the car, goes to the back, opens the trunk, and is just gone for like 10 minutes, gets back in the car, and they just drive on.

• 1:27:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  And she doesn't say anything.

• 1:27:12Josh Clark?

  She's just sitting there like this.

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  I know Yumi.

• 1:27:18Josh Clark?

  Yumi would have been like, "Why'd you take your foot off the gas?"

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:20Josh Clark?

  The moment I started to breathe.

• 1:27:22Speaker 02

  There would have been, Emily would have had 300 questions on why we stopped on a bridge and I opened the trunk.

• 1:27:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Not Joe.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Not Joe.

• 1:27:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So, a lot of people still like Dwayne Weber, but he's actually, the FBI said, "No, that's not the guy. We ruled him out with DNA," right?

• 1:27:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:42Josh Clark?

  The next guy is my guy, Kenny Christensen, chuckers.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  That's right. He was a pretty well-liked suspect for a while. He, keeping with the series of family members outing their family, is DB Cooper.

• 1:27:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah, which actually supports the family motto that I was brought up with, "Never trust family."

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  Right. It's a proud Clark tradition. So, his brother Lyle, actually, this gets a little weird. He outed him as a suspect in an effort to get the screenwriter Nora Ephron, Sleepless in Seattle, right?

• 1:28:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, baby. Didn't even see that coming. He tried to get Nora Ephron to write a movie about DB Cooper via his brother being the main suspect, and he, weirdly, I guess he didn't have an agent, he hired a private investigator to get him in touch with Nora Ephron.

• 1:28:35Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  Very strange. But he championed his own brother as the main suspect.

• 1:28:40Josh Clark?

  Or outed him, that's another way to put it, for sure.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:28:42Josh Clark?

  And a guy named Jeffrey Gray wrote a really great article in New York Magazine, if you guys are interested, about this particular guy. But there's a lot of similarities between DB Cooper and Kenny Christensen. For one, he looks a lot like him, right off the bat. He was a purser for Northwest Orient Airlines. That's a big deal.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:04Josh Clark?

  Former paratrooper.

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:06Josh Clark?

  He was quiet, he smoked cigarettes, he drank bourbon, lived in the area where the hijacking took place, which is, as I say, around here. And I think 2011, Jeffrey Gray, the guy who wrote that New York Magazine article, got in touch with Florence Schaffner and said, "What about this guy?" And Florence Schaffner said, "I think you may be on to something here."

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, like Dwayne Weber, Kenny Christensen, on his deathbed...

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  Tried to make a confession to his brother Lyle. He, he said, "I have something really important to tell you, but I'm not sure if I can, if I can say this." And Lyle said, "No, no, no, I don't want to hear it."

• 1:29:47Josh Clark?

  Did you guys know that you can not hear a deathbed confession?

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  Well, not only that, but I want nothing more than to hear a deathbed confession.

• 1:29:55Josh Clark?

  That's a good point, too.

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  I would be dying. I would be like, "Oh, my God."

• 1:29:58Josh Clark?

  Chuck would be like, "Dish."

• 1:29:59Speaker 02

  Yes. "What do you have to say?" But he was like, "No, no, no, I don't want to hear what you got to say. Just go ahead and die."

• 1:30:05Josh Clark?

  And then he laid on top of him.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:08Josh Clark?

  Till he stopped squirming.

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  Here, this pillow will make you comfortable.

• 1:30:13Josh Clark?

  Shh, you sleep now, brother.

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  What is going on with these people?

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  Did you just do the Buffalo Bill voice?

• 1:30:21Josh Clark?

  No.

• 1:30:21Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:30:22Josh Clark?

  That was coincidental.

• 1:30:26Speaker 02

  Uh, who else do we have? LD Cooper.

• 1:30:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28Speaker 02

  Little on the nose.

• 1:30:29Josh Clark?

  Dad.

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  With the name.

• 1:30:31Josh Clark?

  He lived in the area, too.

• 1:30:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he was also outed by a family member, keeping with the Clark family tradition.

• 1:30:37Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:30:37Speaker 02

  This time it was his niece. Uh, and she said, "You know what? I remember..." This was in 2011. This was not too long ago. She said, "You know what? I remember back in Thanksgiving 1971, just like it was yesterday, and Uncle LD showed up bruised and bleeding for dinner, but he was euphoric, which was weird. And I'm just now mentioning this."

• 1:31:01Josh Clark?

  Right. And what she, she said, by the way, she had a book coming out simultaneously. She's telling everybody this.

• 1:31:08Speaker 02

  Imagine that.

• 1:31:09Josh Clark?

  What did she say that she overheard? Because this is where she loses Chuck and me.

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, she said, uh, he went to talk to, uh, he was my uncle. He went to talk to my dad and they were, I overheard them in the hallway say, "We did it. Our money problems are over. We hijacked the plane."

• 1:31:28Speaker 02

  The book by Simon and Schuster, on sale now.

• 1:31:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah. At your local airport.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  But there were a few things, it wasn't totally out of the blue. He was an engineer at Boeing.

• 1:31:41Josh Clark?

  No, his brother was.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  Oh, his brother was. Yeah, but they were in on it together.

• 1:31:44Josh Clark?

  Sure, right.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  Because we hijacked the plane.

• 1:31:46Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:31:47Speaker 02

  He's a silent partner. And weirdly, remember those Dan Cooper comic books? He was one of the 10 people on the planet that was a fan of the Dan Cooper comic books.

• 1:31:56Josh Clark?

  That's a little weird.

• 1:31:57Speaker 02

  It's pretty good.

• 1:31:58Josh Clark?

  The weird thing is, is he didn't have any experience skydiving, which a lot of people say, "Oh, it's just too insane to think that somebody who'd never skydived before did their first skydive during a heist out of a 727." But the people who knew L.D. Cooper say, "No, he was just crazy enough to do something like that." And you can make a case that that actually explains the choice of the dummy shoot, to tell you the truth.

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  That's right. And the military shoot even.

• 1:32:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  All right, so the legacy of D.B. Cooper, to this day, the heist remains the only unsolved airline hijacking in the history of the world.

• 1:32:34Josh Clark?

  In America.

• 1:32:36Speaker 02

  In America. Really? Are there other ones? You're like, "Yeah."

• 1:32:42Josh Clark?

  I'm only standing behind America.

• 1:32:44Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, I gotcha. Yeah, right? Every year, if you go to the Ariel Store and Tavern in Ariel, Washington, you can go to the D.B. Cooper Days Festival.

• 1:32:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah, have you guys, has anyone ever been to that?

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  We should all totally go.

• 1:32:59Josh Clark?

  Well, go, let's go right now.

• 1:33:02Speaker 02

  We're gonna meet up this Thanksgiving. You can win a D.B. Cooper look-alike contest.

• 1:33:07Josh Clark?

  If you look like Kevin Spacey?

• 1:33:09Speaker 02

  Yes, or Charles Manson, or Don Draper. Which none of us do. Well, I'm talking about you and me.

• 1:33:16Josh Clark?

  I look like Justin Bieber.

• 1:33:27Speaker 02

  I look like I ate Justin Bieber.

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  I just spit out my tooth.

• 1:33:37Speaker 02

  That's how I lost it. I broke it on Justin Bieber's bones.

• 1:33:39Josh Clark?

  On Justin Bieber's bones. They're pliable, though.

• 1:33:43Speaker 02

  You can go to that and win the contest. There have been songs over the years. There was that terrible movie. There have been countless TV reenactments and dramatizations.

• 1:33:52Josh Clark?

  Unsolved mysteries, am I right?

• 1:33:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:54Josh Clark?

  Everybody see that one?

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  You can watch that on the YouTube, too.

• 1:33:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  And there are many, many Cooperist websites, most notably one called dropzone.com.

• 1:34:04Josh Clark?

  And Dropzone actually used to be a recreational skydiving site until it got mostly taken over by DB Cooper aficionados.

• 1:34:12Speaker 02

  They hijacked the website.

• 1:34:13Josh Clark?

  They did, as a matter of fact. And this site is like so hot for Cooper sleuths that a guy named Secret started posting on it. And he seemed to have a lot of information about the DB Cooper case that people didn't know about. And it turned out that these Cooper sleuths were so good, they unmasked the Secret guy as the new agent in charge of the DB Cooper case, Larry Carr, who was posting secretly as Secret on the Dropzone boards. That's how good these people are.

• 1:34:42Speaker 02

  He's like, "No, I'm not. Yes, you are. No, I'm not."

• 1:34:45Josh Clark?

  Yes, you are.

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  Yes, you are.

• 1:34:48Josh Clark?

  He's like, "Okay, I am."

• 1:34:50Speaker 02

  You can go on YouTube. Boy, you got a lot of YouTube and D N A people. You can go on YouTube as well and look up Larry Carr. And for many, many years, they kept all this evidence sort of under wraps. And you can look up videos now. Larry Carr said, "You know what we should do? The modern age is here. We have the Youtubes and we can let everyone see this evidence." Even though, I think it's kind of funny that the FBI's official thing is like, "No, he totally died."

• 1:35:12Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:35:13Speaker 02

  No one told Larry Carr that.

• 1:35:15Josh Clark?

  No.

• 1:35:15Speaker 02

  You know? Because he's like, "Oh, let's make a YouTube video. Let's show everyone the skinny tie."

• 1:35:20Josh Clark?

  All the kids are into it now.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  He shows the clip-on tie. You can see all the, you can see the money, the clip-on tie, all this evidence, hoping for a lead.

• 1:35:30Josh Clark?

  And he oversaw DNA evidence actually being removed from the tie. They found three people's profiles. They also found, we don't even know, but pure titanium and impatience pollen. Hopefully that will eventually crack the case, but it made everybody just be like, "What? We thought we had a handle on this. Impatience pollen. Where did that come from?" So, um. Bring us home, my friend. The, thank you. The Cooper heist, it changed America forever, right? DB Cooper's the reason we all started walking through metal detectors shortly afterward. He's the reason, seriously, he's the reason that the airlines were given the right to search your bags before you get on one of their planes.

• 1:36:13Josh Clark?

  And they apparently reinstituted the death penalty for hijacking. I don't know when they took it off. Was it like sea ships being hijacked and then? I have no idea. I don't either. But the, the, I think the coolest outcome of this whole thing was if you look at a Boeing 727, they still make them, airplane, if you look at that aft staircase in the back, there's a white paddle that holds the stairs closed. Pretty smart. You can't open the aft staircase mid-flight because you have to go outside and pull the paddle down and then the aft staircase will open. And it's a pretty smart, easy solution to a pretty complex case. And they call that little white paddle a Cooper vein.

• 1:36:58Josh Clark?

  That's right. And that is the story of DB Cooper. And that is our show.

• 1:37:07Josh Clark?

  Good night, Seattle. Good night, everyone. Thank you.

• 1:37:29Speaker 00

  For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com.

• 1:37:42Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Fordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:38:13Speaker 03

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAa. If your asthma keeps interrupting... It may be time to try something else. Extentur is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extentur is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection.

• 1:38:56Speaker 03

  Common colds, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extentur. Learn more at extentur.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 1:39:15Speaker 04

  Hello?

• 1:39:15Speaker 05

  Hey, it's me, your wallet.

• 1:39:17Speaker 04

  Oh, hey.

• 1:39:18Speaker 05

  I was just wondering if we could maybe take it easy this week?

• 1:39:22Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:39:23Speaker 05

  Really?

• 1:39:23Speaker 04

  Yep, I'm shopping at Food Lion.

• 1:39:25Speaker 05

  Wait, you mean low prices?

• 1:39:27Speaker 04

  And MVP savings.

• 1:39:29Speaker 05

  Oh, you do care.

• 1:39:30Speaker 04

  Obviously.

• 1:39:31Speaker 05

  Okay, I feel better.

• 1:39:33Speaker 04

  Good, now let's go get some snacks.

• 1:39:37Speaker 06

  At Food Lion, low prices and MVP savings make it easier to shop for what you need without spending more than you have to. When your wallet needs a little TLC, head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.