Secret Service Agent: How to Get Anyone to Tell You the Truth | Brad Beeler

Brad Beeler, a US Secret Service agent for 25 years and polygraph examiner for 17, is the author of Tell Me Everything. He argues that people disclose the truth when an interviewer builds safety and curiosity, since body language is a poor lie detector. The conversation covers the Buddy framework, FEEL, the crime equation, horns and halos, tactical empathy, confirmation bias, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

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• 2:10Lewis Howes?

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• 2:52Lewis Howes?

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• 2:58Lewis Howes?

  Everywhere I go, airports, events, walking down the street, people stop me and say, Louis, this show got me through one of the hardest seasons of my life. And it's one of the coolest things when people come up to me. So if you see me, please come up and say hi and let me know how this show, The School of Greatness, has impacted you. It lights me up because our mission at Greatness Media is to impact 100 million lives every single week. So if today's conversation hits home for you, do me a favor and push the follow button right now. It means that the next conversation will be delivered to you and will find you exactly when you need it. Again, thank you so much for being here and listening to The School of Greatness. Make sure to follow right now to stay up to date on the latest and greatest.

• 3:43Lewis Howes?

  It's not about asking the right questions. It's creating the environment where the truth doesn't hurt, where they can feel comfortable making that disclosure. That's a quote from our guest today, Brad Beeler. And if you've ever struggled to get someone to actually open up with you, whether it be your kid, your partner, someone on your team, and you keep wondering why they shut down or why they hold back, then this episode is going to change how you see every conversation you have in your life moving forward. Maybe you've been taught that the way to get the truth out of someone is to push harder, ask smarter questions, catch people in something. This former Secret Service agent proves the

• 4:24Lewis Howes?

  opposite, that people tell you the truth when they feel safe, not when they feel cornered. And that applies just as much to your marriage and your kids, your coworkers and your peers, as it does in a federal interrogation room. In this episode, you're going to learn how to read body language like a trained investigator, why a single facial expression can shut someone down instantly, how to build instant trust and rapport with anyone you meet, and why chasing being interesting will always lose to being genuinely interested. Brad Beeler spent 25 years as a US Secret Service agent, protecting presidents, interviewing

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  thousands of people, and becoming one of the agency's top polygraph examiners and behavioral experts. My name is Lewis Howes. Welcome to The School of Greatness, and let's go ahead and dive in. You've been around some of the most powerful and influential people in the world, and some of the most, you know, I guess disgusting people in the world are people who have done disgusting acts, right? How many people have you interviewed over your years?

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Probably a couple thousand.

• 5:32Lewis Howes?

  Couple thousand. And these are people who have done crimes or potentially done crimes, right?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Not all of them, alleged to have committed crimes. But a lot of the people I did talk to, we cleared. They didn't commit those acts.

• 5:41Lewis Howes?

  Really? Man, that's tough. It's gotta be tough when you have to clear them. We're like, okay, they didn't commit it too, right?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Sometimes that's the greatest day you have, is that, you know, you come into a situation. I remember one, an individual was accused of domestic terrorism. He was actually convicted of material support of domestic terrorism post 9/11. And post 9/11, we had a fervor in the United States about certain activities. And this individual was accused of that, was convicted of that. Some information came up that that maybe wasn't the case. We, this individual was offered a kind of global plea agreement by the Department of Justice where if he passed this polygraph, he would be given this amount of years versus if he didn't, he'd be given this amount of years. And so, this was an individual I shared nothing in common with. This individual did not like America, but yet he, it turned out,

• 6:29Speaker 01

  did not do the thing that he was accused of. And honestly, it was probably the most proud interview that I ever did because I was able to try to hold back my personal views of him personally and focus on the job at hand and get him in the right headspace to prove that he was innocent.

• 6:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So he didn't like America, but he didn't commit the crime that he was accused of?

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  So did he still go to prison?

• 6:53Speaker 01

  He went to prison for some financial crimes, stuff that he did.

• 6:56Lewis Howes?

  Other stuff?

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that we were investigating, but he didn't do the major deed that he was accused of.

• 7:00Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So how do you remove your personal feelings of like, this guy's still a bad guy, right? He did something wrong over here. Let's get him for this other thing too. How do you remove that personal feeling and really try to just get the right information to serve him even though you know he's supposed to go to jail anyways?

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's tough. That's tough, right?

• 7:22Lewis Howes?

  You're a scumbag here, but you weren't a scumbag here.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not something that they taught. I think it was just over a period of time, I would learn that if I had certain facial expressions, I almost view it like red light, yellow light, green light. If I have a red light expression or the way that I speak to somebody, it shuts them down. So they see that maybe there's some ulterior motives here. And that's in business, parenting, whatever the case may be. So I learned one time, I was talking to an individual that I believe was a serial offender against children. And he provided a disclosure and I just gave that little, you know, just that little downward eyebrow flash. And it was contempt. And he immediately shut down after that admission.

• 8:00Lewis Howes?

  Because he felt you weren't, you didn't like what he shared.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Correct. Like, he's not in a safe place, right? These waters are not conducive, right?

• 8:07Lewis Howes?

  So any little bit of facial expression that you give someone, when you disapprove, it's going to shut people down from telling you more about what they did?

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Because we always want to get the why, and then I want to get the what else. And there's so many times where, hey, what else? And it's almost said assumptively if it's what else. Like, imagine, you know, Louis, and I don't know your faith, but imagine if you were a Catholic and you were going into confessional, and you walked in and there were cameras, like these beautiful cameras you had here, and there wasn't that little shroud, right? And you knew who the other person was, and they, the priest knew who you were. And you said something, you'd made a disclosure, and that priest said, really? Or that priest said, why did you do that? Almost like what we do sometimes as parents, we punish the disclosure. And that's what I learned is in my spoken word and how I look. And you are amazing at this, you know, in the community, in the podcast, in the public

• 9:01Speaker 01

  specter, because you were so good with your active listening skills and your affect. You always kind of truly put off. And if, I think it's genuine, or else you were the greatest actor ever.

• 9:11Lewis Howes?

  I'm not that good of an actor.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  But you do such a good job of inviting disclosure, is that you're never showing that furrowed brow. And I almost have people either do a lot of Botox or have imaginary, like duct tape on your forehead. Because I've had applicants admit to shooting, robbing, these are applicants for our organization.

• 9:32Lewis Howes?

  Wait, some people are coming into the Secret Service?

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, absolutely.

• 9:34Lewis Howes?

  Not bad guys that you caught?

• 9:36Speaker 01

  No, these are just applicants.

• 9:37Lewis Howes?

  People to come in to work at the Secret Service?

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's not, it's not just our organization. It's every organization. Yeah. And that's why, you know, I always am careful about talking about polygraph because there's so much hatred about it and pseudoscience and this. It is the, it is a tool that needs to be used in the right place, the right time with guardrails and quality control. And when done in that environment, the things that are disclosed are amazing. And if we wouldn't have it, the amount of people that would get on this job that shouldn't have that job would be very, very problematic. I mean, you've had applicants admit to bestiality, all kinds of craziness that, the first time you hear it, you can't just sit there and be like, yeah, you just gotta be like, oh, okay, you know, how old were you?

• 10:15Lewis Howes?

  What else?

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Hey, what else? Or it was a female cat, right? Okay, good. All right. How old was the cat? Okay, three? Okay, so it wasn't a kitten. Okay, good. I'm glad to hear that.

• 10:22Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  And you have to do that.

• 10:24Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  You have to do that.

• 10:26Lewis Howes?

  Because, so they give you more.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't want to punish the disclosure.

• 10:29Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 10:31Lewis Howes?

  So when you hear someone who's applying for, I guess, Secret Service or military or some role for the government, I guess, right? And they say they did something. How do you respond? And is that an automatic, okay, they can't be hired? Or is there some gray areas somewhere?

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Some of it's going to depend on age and intent. And did they do it? Or were they part of a group that did it? So we're going to go into investigative mode.

• 10:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  At that point, try to understand what, what really happened here. But yeah, sometimes we've had to make those disclosures to law enforcement to, uh, came in looking for a job and it didn't necessarily work out. So that's why we have it is because, think of it this way. When you see about a serial killer, they always go interview the neighbors. What do the neighbors say about that serial killer? Oh, John was just such a quiet kid. Nobody ever says, yeah, I knew that John was going to be a serial killer. Right? Is that background checks are great, but what do they really pick up? Cause everybody's so afraid of making that disclosure because they're going to get in trouble. They're going to get litigation put against them. So they're always very nice about what they say. So in, in that, that's why we use it. And that's why it's very effective. So once again, I'm not a polygraph acolyte. I did it for 17 years. I know its limitations, but I also know its strengths.

• 11:37Lewis Howes?

  So when you hear someone disclose something that you in your gut and your soul are like, this is bad. This is wrong. This is horrible, maybe whatever it's disgusting.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:47Lewis Howes?

  How do you respond right when you hear it? To ensure that they continue to reveal all the information you want to know?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yep. So no instant changes in body language. My facial affect doesn't be neutral. I want it to be positive. So neutral codes negative, both the first impressions and also existing impressions.

• 12:03Lewis Howes?

  Neutral.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Neutral codes negative. And this goes back to caveman days. Okay. If we're going and we come across another tribe, instantaneously, I'm going to look on your face and your hands and determine, are you going to hurt me? Or are you going to be somebody that's going to potentially come into my tribe that I might reproduce with, I mean, very primal level. If I have a neutral affect, our primitive self would code that as this is not good. Right? This is not good for me. I'm going to err on the side of caution. I'm going to put horns on you and run away, fight, whatever I need to do. So that's a, when you say first impression, like when I'm talking about within milliseconds of seeing you, is Louis going to hurt me? I would see your affect right now and I'd say, no, his hands aren't balled up. He's not bladed his body. He's eventually fronted showing me his.

• 12:48Lewis Howes?

  He doesn't have his head in his head. You know, it's like any little thing that's, isn't it interesting? We look at hands first a lot, don't we? When we're meeting someone new.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:58Lewis Howes?

  And I, I heard that I think years ago, cause you'd think that you look originally at their eyes or something, but it's like, maybe it's an eye and then the hand. And subconsciously I realized like, yeah, when I'm meeting, especially men.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:09Lewis Howes?

  I'm trying to see like, are they in a relaxed hand position? Or are they clenched? Or is there something, are their hands in their pocket? What do they have in their pocket? What's in there? It's like, uh, you're on guard then, right?

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. So bodies being bladed is another thing that we look at. If you look at any knockout video, what happens right before the people look away, they ball up their fist, they blade their body to their dominant side. If they're right-handed, they drop their right leg. The next thing you know, they try to spin your chin and make you go to sleep. Is that from an officer's safety standpoint, we'll look at those things, but those are primal. And they, you may not pick up on it. You may not have got that training, but subconsciously it's still there. It's still in that source code where you're picking that up subconscious that I don't feel good here. So when I meet people, first off, handshakes, a warm, dry handshake. I put clinical grade antiperspirant on my hands when I'm going to shake people's hands. Why? Cause it's always going to be dry. When you've shaken people's hands, whether it be in competition or elsewhere and they're, and they're wet.

• 13:59Lewis Howes?

  The worst.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  They don't have confidence. What's wrong with this person?

• 14:02Lewis Howes?

  Something seems off.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Something's off, right? Or if they come on and they give you that Queen of England, or if they come in and do the, the Trump, you know, the power, the alpha.

• 14:11Lewis Howes?

  Over the top.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  So what I like to do is I like to show them my, the whites of my hands. And like you are right now, you're at about a two o'clock.

• 14:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  By doing that, since we always pronate, the other person, it's making it really easy for them to almost pancake. And we want to really connect right at the thumb. So we don't have the bones. And also we don't want to come in too shallow. So it's like, we're checking their pulse.

• 14:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  So we have that dry, that warm handshake, and it's not a shake, it's a hold. While we have eye contact.

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  So what's that look like?

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's this, boom.

• 14:38Lewis Howes?

  We hold it.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, we hold it now.

• 14:39Lewis Howes?

  Not too long.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  I looked down right before so that I don't miss the mid air refuel. Cause how's that, that's the worst when we do this, right?

• 14:46Lewis Howes?

  So you looked down real quick.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And identify early. So let's go back three or four years ago with COVID. We were doing this, we were doing this, right? So in some parts of the country is still a little bit, the vestiges are there. So what I'll come in is I'll show them the whites, boom, come in and I look down to see it, but then I come back up and it's just a hold. And then I go back and I don't blade my body. I still eventually front.

• 15:05Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Right? But then when we move to a seated area, I like how you have this, cause this is almost like we're around a campfire. You got your little fire right there.

• 15:13Lewis Howes?

  You know, fake, but it's, you know, it makes the meal feel more inviting.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Is that Italian researchers learned that there's a right ear advantage. And if I can speak into your right ear, you have about a five or 10% better to process sensitive information. So if I'm in this setup, this is perfect for me.

• 15:28Lewis Howes?

  My right ear.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Your right ear. Now, once again, five percent people are like this. We talked Nick Saban in the green room earlier. If Nick Saban had a 5% advantage in anything he did for Alabama, he'd take it.

• 15:39Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Right? So little things like that. I don't want to be directly across from you and I don't want to have barriers. Cause if I have barriers, I can't see where your feet are.

• 15:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  The best body language is where your feet are, because it's the longest cabling from your brain stem. So.

• 15:51Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  If I say something uncomfortable, you might turn away.

• 15:54Lewis Howes?

  It's so interesting you say that because I think about experiential design as well. You know, we used to have a table, which I like the table, cause your hands are on top and you can kind of see the hands better, I feel like. And, or if it goes underneath, then you're like, okay, what's happening under there? So I like having it up there. And it also makes you feel less vulnerable if your face onto each other and we're like, go straight on. Then I used to have straight on, but I was like, uh, women, the top person feel comfortable. So it's just they'll have it a little bit off center. Then we had this in the middle, but it's like, uh, your feet, you know? And so it's moving where it's not blocking, but it's still like here for the cup. So what would you change? Anything?

• 16:30Speaker 01

  I wouldn't change anything. And I, I would say you were very good at being observant. Watch where people's feet are. Watch where their orientation is. If you bring up a subject that maybe they don't really feel comfortable about.

• 16:39Lewis Howes?

  They do this.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Or let's say we get 90 minutes in and people are like, ah, it's about time. I've kind of talked about what I'm going to talk about is, is I want to be able to see that. And when we're across from a table, I can't see that. Plus a table is going to create an artificial anchor point that they can put their arms on. I don't want to see that because anchor points for me are some of the best ways to determine comfort, discomfort. Body language is terrible for detection of deception, but it's great for reception of message. So if I'm saying something and all of a sudden you cross your arms, it could be cold. It is, it is cold in here. But if you didn't do that for the first 45 minutes and it just happened now, hmm.

• 17:12Lewis Howes?

  You notice it.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  It's a check engine light.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  And the same thing is that I see that and then I see you do it with your legs. Okay. How can I unwind that? Maybe I go to a lower anchor point at my ankles and two minutes later, then I unwind it. Monkey see, monkey do. You'd be surprised at how many times people will unwind that. This is a confession posture, Louis, right here. Think about this, right?

• 17:31Lewis Howes?

  When you're leaning forward.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Just like this. If I, if, I can't tell you how many, I mean, in school.

• 17:36Lewis Howes?

  They say like this.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, this, this, just like this. People just, they look down at the ground. So if I'm talking to you and I've got great rapport, I've got great respect, but I'm, I'm, I'm seated like this. You may mirror me, but you're mirroring a position that's the furthest thing away from a disclosure. So the way I always teach people is I'm like, just when you're talking to people, talk to them like this, cause this to this is very close. So if you mirror me, I'm mirroring that in my benefit.

• 18:01Lewis Howes?

  So you're, when you're interviewing someone and trying to get information out of them, you're in the confessional posture.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:07Lewis Howes?

  Most of the time.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  I've got my anchors right here.

• 18:09Lewis Howes?

  The whole time essentially?

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Pretty much. I may be back just a little bit further, but let's say right there where you're, if you're, that's perfect.

• 18:15Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Just like this.

• 18:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow. The whole time. Cause you want them to finally come up there and just be like, and go into a shame mode.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  And it's literally.

• 18:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And it's shame, right? Because.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Sometimes, yeah. Not always.

• 18:27Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Right? Sometimes it may be you just, you got me.

• 18:31Lewis Howes?

  You got me, you caught me.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  You, you got me.

• 18:32Lewis Howes?

  Too much evidence on me.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  But I, so it's not about asking the right questions. It's creating the environment where the, the truth doesn't hurt. And they can feel comfortable making that disclosure. I create the right environment. And that's from, think of it this way, great communication is a great podcast. Think about your great episodes over the years. If you prepped and you read the book, or you read, saw some of their other podcasts, you made an amazing first impression in your green room. So you brought down their cortisol because they were stressed to be here. Cause this is a beautiful building. You got to know them a little bit. You got some talking points. Okay. What could I bring up? What would be some things we shouldn't talk about? You come on screen and you advocate for them. You let them talk 80% of the time. The most soothing voice on the planet is their person's own. You let that speak that. And you advocate for me.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  And once again, now that oxytocin, that dopamine, that serotonin is flowing in those neurochemicals are, I'm bathing in it and I'm associating that with you. Okay. I'm putting a halo on you right now because you're letting me talk. And if I go down a rabbit hole that's not of interest to your listeners, you kind of bring me back. If I go down one that you think's interesting, you kind of tease it out. And then you have a great podcast. Where I think podcasts are problematic is when it's 50/50. Because you got somebody here that's stressed out. When they're talking, they're actually more comfortable.

• 19:47Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, really?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:49Lewis Howes?

  Huh.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  It lets them get their sea legs underneath them.

• 19:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. So, you know, 25 years, Secret Service, getting people to admit the worst things they've ever done. What would you say is the number one secret or communication tip to getting the truth out of anyone?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  If you just said one trait, I would say be interested more than, you know, trying to be interesting. Dale Carnegie, like I said, is that when you, especially in leisure activities, let's kind of tease this out a little bit. So if, if we're talking and you know, you're coming in here and you're accused of something, what's your heart rate, do you think?

• 20:22Lewis Howes?

  Higher.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. You're, whether it be a job interview, whether it be talking to your parents about, did you wreck the car last night or get a ticket? Or law enforcement, your heart rate's probably 120, 130. Once your heart rate gets to a certain point, everything starts to turn into fight or flight. You get that tunnel vision and that's not good. So I want to, one, make a great introduction. I want you to feel like you're in a good space. Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I want to work on that base. I'm never going to be your friend in a single interaction. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to make sure you're physiologically and psychologically safe.

• 20:54Lewis Howes?

  So give me an example. You're back in Secret Service and you're, you know, you've got someone that did something really bad.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  And you're about to prep to.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Oh, hell yeah.

• 21:03Lewis Howes?

  Do an interview with them, right? What does the prep look like? And then what is the first five to 10 minutes to really warm them up and feel emotionally safe enough, even though they know that they did something wrong? And you know, they did something wrong.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. So let's say we worked a lot of cases in the Secret Service. A lot of people don't know is that, uh, we work a lot of cases for the National Center of Missing and Exploited Children. So a lot of child exploitation cases. People think Secret Service protection. We started in 1865 doing investigations. So for me, I was an investigations person. That's what I really enjoy doing outside the protection. So that's how we got involved in, in doing this outside work. So the case, I'll give you a, for instance, an individual is accused of doing some bad, I'm just going to leave it as just some bad things to some kids, him and his girlfriend. And

• 21:46Lewis Howes?

  Sexually.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Bad, yes, sexually, taking pictures, doing inappropriate things.

• 21:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Okay. And it's one of these things where I'm trying to get a sight picture of what makes this person tick. Pain points, organic things that I might be able to bring up. So we, we don't put information in our diary anymore and put it on our bed. Where do we put it? Put it online. You know, I mean, if I'm trying to find out about Lewis, I go on your

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  Everyone in my posts, every

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I go on, you know, Caroline, you know, doing a great job distilling your, uh, your Instagram. Is that, uh, I go on there and I can find out

• 22:17Lewis Howes?

  What makes them tick?

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could, I could get some of those quotes, whatever. And in this sense, that's what I did is that this person had a huge Facebook presence. And so I could go find out what makes them tick. And there were about 15 different things that I garnered, but one thing in particular was the fact that he loved his pit bull. And he kept having pictures of this pit bull. I didn't know how I was going to bring this up.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  But you had that in your mind at some point.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  So that's just operating in the background, right? So I always like to meet basic necessities, bathroom, food. Um, I knew he liked Wendy's. So guess what we're eating? Hey, man, I'm starving. I was going to get some Wendy's. Oh, man, I'd love a Frosty and a, that's great. I take $20 out of my pocket, give it to the detective. What does that show? I'm taking care. And, and once again, I don't know if he did this thing, but it looks like I'm playing fair. All right. So we break bread and break food is reciprocity.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  I give you something, you gotta give me something.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 23:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Right? Is that, but also it's a, it's a, it's a barometer. Meaning when you're nervous, you don't tend to eat. So he's scarfing this stuff down. So I feel like his heart rate's in a good place where he can tell me the truth, whether he did the thing or he didn't do the thing.

• 23:24Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  So family, education, employment, leisure feels what we call

• 23:28Lewis Howes?

  But just because you're nervous doesn't mean that you did the thing. They did the thing.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 23:32Lewis Howes?

  But they're just like, oh, there's a, an agent investigating me. It's a nerve wracking

• 23:36Speaker 01

  A lot of people over the years, nervousness has been looked at as, oh, that's deception. Amanda Knox.

• 23:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  People thought she's nervous. She's acting strange. And then the Italian police get that confirmation bias. So yes, you want to be real careful about that. So one of the ways we like to do it is I want to find out what makes you tick. So family, education, employment, leisure. And where I find this really works very well is in leisure activities.

• 23:57Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 23:58Speaker 01

  So in this case, what I did is, hey, what do you like to eat? Let's just call him Bob. Hey Bob, what do you like to do in your free time? Oh, I like to play this. I like to video game. What kind of video games? I like to do this, this, what else you like to do? I like to walk my dog. Oh, tell me about your dog. Oh, he's a Staffordshire terrier. Some people call it a pit bull. You know, I said, man, they get bad reputations, right? He's, yeah, but it's all nature versus nurture. If you take care of it. You know, so he goes off in about 10 minutes. He's talking, he's beaming.

• 24:21Lewis Howes?

  About his dog.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  About his dog. And so his stress level's coming down, his heart rate's coming down. Now, the backstory here is about 10 minutes later, he makes the disclosure that something bad happened to him as a kid. About the same ages in which these kids that we were investigating had happened to them. So you're basically providing him a built in off ramp by asking the question. And I can say, hey, John, look, remember we talked about your pit bull? How when it's treated well, it's amazing. But if you, if you put OC spray on it, uh, you know, pepper spray on it. And if you, you know, put a shock collar on it and you only feed it when it fights, it creates a monster, right? That trajectory of that animal's changed. I said, let's go back to your past. Your trajectory was changed by something that somebody you loved did to you.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  And it maybe changed that asteroid's trajectory and it caused the crater that we're seeing here today.

• 25:13Lewis Howes?

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• 25:57Lewis Howes?

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• 26:08Lewis Howes?

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• 26:35Lewis Howes?

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• 27:13Speaker 01

  So by looking at that background, I'm able to give him an off ramp to the bad thing he did. I'm not excusing it.

• 27:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  He got 47 years in prison.

• 27:21Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 27:21Speaker 01

  So, you know, he, he still had to pay amends. But in his mind, that was his personal justification for that bad thing. So I'm always really, really big on asking, and let's just run it out here real quick. What do you like to do in your free time, Lewis?

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  Uh, well, I like spending time with my kids right now because they're 10 months old. Like playing pickleball. Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Okay, so let's say we were on an airplane and I didn't know you were, who you were, right? And I'm just sitting next to you and, and, and we're talking and there's too many me too people out there. You've probably seen them. Okay. Is that let people share their experience, ask informed questions and it will circle back to you. How many times has somebody said, what do you like doing in your free time? I like to run, me too. What marathons you do? This, but, and now you're just in this measuring contest of, of who's more important. So avoid the me too.

• 28:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think the most interesting person in every room is always the most interested person.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:15Lewis Howes?

  You know, that's how I kind of got started in my career because I was in my young twenties. I didn't understand business. I was like, just trying to figure out the business world. And some mentors were like, why don't you go to some conferences and start meeting people? But I was like, I don't have anything to offer. I don't have any skills. I don't have any experience, no success in the business world. I was just got done playing football. And so all I did was ask questions. And I was like too nervous to talk about myself because I didn't have anything to offer. And everyone at the end of the night were like, you're such an interesting guy. And I never said anything. I was just asked them questions and showed curiosity. I was like, you're amazing what you do, how you overcame that. Wow, that's incredible. And people are like, hey, how can I help you?

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:54Lewis Howes?

  At the end of the night, they're like, what can I do for you? I didn't even hear your story.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 28:57Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's so, so fascinating how connected we can get to others when we show curiosity.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right. Hundred percent.

• 29:05Lewis Howes?

  But how, this is the thing, this is the something I've struggled with. There are people in my past who I've, who have done wrong to me. Or in my interpretation, they've done wrong to me. I felt betrayed, I felt abandoned or whatever, abused, taken advantage of, whatever, right? Or it's like they did something wrong.

• 29:21Lewis Howes?

  And for whatever reason, when I confront them, I don't have the ability to show compassion or, or positive affect.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, the emotion is clouding the logic.

• 29:29Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  And it, anytime your emotion gets involved into the situation, what's their automatic defense mechanism? Yeah, you know, so I, I think if you change it to help me understand. Almost like dot, dot, dot after that. Help me understand why. You know, is it, you're almost putting it out there as you're doing me a favor by explaining this to me versus why.

• 29:50Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Why is very problematic. It's putting them on the defensive and too many times, especially if that's associated with lying, you're trying to bring their identity into play. And when someone's identity is affected, ooh.

• 30:04Lewis Howes?

  I just like calling, I like calling people out on their, their identity of like, you're just a liar. You're a cheater, you know?

• 30:10Speaker 01

  It's, it feels good.

• 30:11Lewis Howes?

  But here's the thing, most of my childhood, I had like little white lies constantly to try to protect myself. So it's also the part of the younger version of me that I don't like. So maybe it's part of me reflecting to myself of like, God, I was a jerk too, back in my day. And I've done things that I'm not proud of and I lied and I cheated. I did all these things. I stole, I did these things. But it's almost like now I know how bad that was.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:35Lewis Howes?

  How would you confront another person personally, rather than for the job, who did you wrong or your family wrong?

• 30:42Speaker 01

  I always like to prime it on the front as much as possible. I know you talked about how sometimes your dad would be, you know, he'd come at you with the, the red light, not the green light.

• 30:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Why did you do this? Don't lie to me. And that creates just walls.

• 30:54Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Right? We need to go around the walls. No frontal attack when it comes to that. So priming as much as we can to make them feel comfortable that we're not going to judge them. So we may do something like

• 31:03Lewis Howes?

  But if it's against you personally or your kid, like

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's

• 31:06Lewis Howes?

  How do you

• 31:07Speaker 01

  I want to, I want you to step outside yourself.

• 31:09Lewis Howes?

  How do you do that?

• 31:10Speaker 01

  I want you to think as like those video games where you're the top level. Do yourself as a character. And do yourself as like, uh, you got the Xbox controller and you're controlling yourself. You're connected tethered to yourself, but you're not yourself. And I want you to be their buddy.

• 31:23Lewis Howes?

  But how do you do if they really hit that button in your heart, your soul? Like, how do you like, okay, my heart rate's going to load it? Like, how do you personally do that?

• 31:31Speaker 01

  What's, what's your goal?

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I know.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  But not let's say it.

• 31:36Lewis Howes?

  The goal is to get the information.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  The goal is to get the information. And if I told you, here's the best way to do it, you'd do that, right?

• 31:41Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  So it's the same way. Here's your goal. What's the best way to do it?

• 31:44Lewis Howes?

  But how do you get the emotions out of it?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  It's tough.

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  How have you like, what's the strategy?

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Okay, screwing up so many times. Uh, I let my ego many times affect the results.

• 31:55Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Um, you know, we had a situation, uh, I did a lot of work in Chicago, my partner, Brian and I. And we had a case in which we thought we were 10 foot tall and bulletproof. And it was unfortunately the death of a baby. And we had a mother father situation and we thought case facts look like the guy did it. You know, confirmation bias is the worst thing that can can come in, right?

• 32:16Lewis Howes?

  Cause you're assuming you think it is, you see there might be some evidence.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's what horns and halos are, right? You see a negative trait or you get negative information, you see everything through that prism. So instead of talking to the mom and getting some background, maybe ruling her out as a suspect. We said, ah, we're just gonna go talk to dad, we're gonna get this. Dad was so close, he was showing really close signs of emotion, but we didn't have that one little bit of information that could push it and we didn't get it. He lawyered up. We go talk to mom, she's too emotional to really talk to, but she gives us a couple of words. She says the guy's name, she says the baby and she says bat. And it was a situation where there was a, a little souvenir baseball bat found. And it had been disinfected, it looked like. If we'd have had that information from her, if we wouldn't let our egos come involved, we'd have done that interview first.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  That would have been probably the straw that broke the camel's back to be able to elicit that last bit of information.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  From the guy.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  From the guy. And we did bad by the, that, that child. We didn't get justice for that child because of our egos and because of our maybe emotions. And this comes full circle where literally a few days after, we're given the same set of scenarios on a double homicide. And time is of the essence, but we can either talk to the 18 year old kid who's never been arrested. Or we can talk to the 25 year old person that doesn't like law enforcement, but that's been arrested a lot. And we kind of tried to learn from those mistakes and said, we're going to talk to the 18 year old this time. And we did, and thankfully, because we were able to get the background information. This 25 year old, um, that was accused, he was minding his own business. So we get some context. He was on the south side of Chicago and some Latin Kings rolled up to him.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  They didn't know that he was a gold glove boxer and he knocked all three of them out.

• 33:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  And then he urinated on them. The problem with that is, is if you're a gangster disciple and you urinate on three Latin Kings, they're probably going to come for retribution.

• 34:03Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  And so he catches through the grapevine that they're coming for him. They're going to roll, you know, three or four deep is what they called it over to his house and kill his, uh, his family members and. So understanding the backstory now is so important, right? Cause now we got the why to his what potentially. And my partner, Brian did such an amazing job because after we got that information, he talks about where they cut the gun up, how they tried to cut the gun up, how they threw it in the canal where it's, so we're able to send the dive team out. But we still gotta go talk to the other potential subject. So we go in there and he is every bad thing you could say to another human being, he says to us. And

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 34:43Speaker 01

  I think it's what he's always done to get his way. And I think he was trying to get a reaction. You know that visceral reaction you talked about when somebody does something wrong? I think he does that to push people's buttons. And you know what? Hey, I was trying to cooperate, but this guy was, and my partner just saw it as performative. He saw that the, the, they weren't balled up. He saw it was fake emotion and he let, he let it just play out. He let it habituate. And then he was his buddy. What he do, I mean by that is you blame outside factors, you understand without agreement. You diminish impact, not culpability. You demonstrate tactical empathy and you focus on the why. He was his buddy. He said, John, look, here's the deal. I know you didn't wake up at eight o'clock in the morning with ill on your heart. Here's what I know happened. You were minding your own business. They stepped up to you and you protected yourself.

• 35:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  You might've taken a little bit too far.

• 35:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  But then you catch wind, they're going to come kill your family members that aren't in the game. And you know what? You can't call the police or you didn't feel like you called the police. So you stepped up and you did something that you shouldn't have done. Okay, but there were five people in that car. You didn't kill all five. You know, it's diminishing impact. And as we're talking, you just see him go from violent to down. And he finally came in on it because Brian did such a good job being his buddy. And I'm not saying the stakes of your, some of your interactions maybe are the same, but it's what's the off ramp we can give that other person?

• 35:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  So they can save face, whether it be in a negotiation, uh, whether it be in a criminal interrogation, or whether it be that parent that did said that bad thing to your son by priming it saying, hey, John, look, I've dealt with you a lot in the past. I know you're a stand up guy. Sometimes we get emotional. Sometimes we say things that, you know, we don't mean. And, and those things, you know, and this all kind of makes me think about it. One of the first cases I ever had in the secret service. We get a call that comes into the Republican headquarters in a small town in Illinois. And I'm literally 24, 25 years old, brand new, wet behind the ears.

• 36:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  And this was a great gig because normally nothing happens when you're doing protective intelligence. Murphy's law, you know, is that literally the night before the visit, it was a W visit. So Bush 43, um, it's in 2000, the whole hanging chattel action. And nine o'clock at night, a phone call comes into the headquarters saying, hey, if, if he comes here, I'm a sniper, I'm going to shoot him, so on and so forth. Well, we find out, oh no, what am I going to do? Luckily I had this guy named Bill. And Bill was like, if you imagine Columbo as a secret service agent, that was him. He was like, I don't know how old the dude was, how he was still, wasn't retired. But he was just so humble and he said, man, uh, let me show you the way. We go out to where the, it was an old payphone.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  So one of the old phones with it, you actually had to put coins in. And there were no obviously flock cameras then, there was no ring cameras. But he takes the phone, cuts it off, puts it in a Ziploc bag, kicks over the trash can, which I thought was wow. Going through dirty diapers and one of the last things he goes through is a little styrofoam cup that has a yellow piece of paper that has the Republican headquarters phone number on it. Bagged it up, cause this is pre DNA, early stages of DNA, but now we got potential handwriting and fingerprints. So we're canvassing the area, looking for where could this cup and, and page have come from? The only thing we see is a little supermarket about a block away. So we walk over there and he's interviewing the manager and we're looking around and he sees the little yellow piece of paper next to the phone that was ripped off, that was the same exact.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  It was one of these scenarios you see in training, you're like, that didn't happen.

• 38:04Lewis Howes?

  But it did, it all happened perfectly, like.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Perfectly. And we asked the manager, hey, guy sounded between 50 and 70. Who was working in that three people? We pulled the employment apps, which are handwritten. He had a layover on his twos and a strike on a seven. Once again, you couldn't come up with a scenario at the federal law enforcement training center that was more unrealistic. But now we know the guy and now it's about 11 o'clock. We go to the person's house, knock on the door and it was surreal to see Bill, just when I talk about priming a situation and creating the environment for the truth. Could he have, as we're going to do a search warrant, we're going to do this, absolutely. But he knocks on the door. We have a couple of local law enforcement with us. Uh, the guy's wife comes to the door and very Midwestern. Hey, what can I do for you?

• 38:47Lewis Howes?

  Cookies.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, seriously. He's like, hey, you could get us a cup of coffee. So very, we walk in, we make a right and I remember the hallway distinctly because the guy's almost at the kitchen table, like doing something very Rockwellian of like doing fishing flies, like tying fishing flies at the kitchen table. And as we're walking, Bill sees a picture of his wedding from probably the 1960s, same woman. So he's been married for about 50 years and he sees his Vietnam marine photo.

• 39:12Lewis Howes?

  Intel.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Observant intel. He's, I don't know how he's going to use this, but he walks up to the guy and he goes, hey, John, hey, um, this is Brad, I'm Bill. He's like, uh, we're with the secret service. Secret service does two things. We stop people from counterfeit money and stop people from hurting our protectees. He goes, have you been printing any counterfeit any recently? And he goes, no, he goes, well, now you know why we're here.

• 39:29Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  I mean, so like, he hits him with that, but then he, he smoothes it and says, look, here's the deal. The reason I'm handling it like this is because I just walked by your wonderful wife. I see you guys have been married for a long time. It says a lot about you. I see that you serve this country. That says a lot about you. And I know the political times that we're in and they're very charged. What I'd like to hope is that you got in a heated political discussion. You took it a step too far and you did something that you're normally going to do, but you weren't going to take that next step. Is that what we're talking about? And the guy came completely in on it.

• 39:59Lewis Howes?

  He opened up to it right away.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Right there. And it was just mind blowing to see a professional.

• 40:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Take all that in, prime it. And sometimes if you don't prime it on the front end, and I, I don't want the lie to happen, Lewis. It's harder to deal with 54% of people, when we've done the biggest study on lie detection. Is that if I watch two videos of you, there's a 54% chance I get it right on which one was telling the truth and which was lying. We suck at this.

• 40:27Lewis Howes?

  That's not that good.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  It's not that good.

• 40:28Lewis Howes?

  Coin flip.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  So if I don't have to deal with the lie, it's even better.

• 40:33Lewis Howes?

  Right. Wow. So did he go to jail or did it, or because he didn't act, nothing happened?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  He, he got a delayed sentence, probation. I think they took into his age, he had some health issues.

• 40:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Uh, but, uh,

• 40:47Lewis Howes?

  But normally if someone does that, they're going.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  You're getting arrested.

• 40:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Even if you don't act.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 40:53Lewis Howes?

  But if you make that threat, if you make that, wow.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's obviously the times we're in because we're

• 40:58Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  The echo chambers and how charged we are, there's less friction.

• 41:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  When we dealt with threats 20 years ago, if you said something stupid at a bar, somebody'd say, hey, Lewis, that's stupid. Nowadays, the bars are virtual and people can just go to whatever bar they want. And it, you've seen with a lot of the political violence, it's just, it's easier for people to find like minded people.

• 41:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Okay. You mentioned this thing, halo and horns. Uh, can you share what that is?

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, so I, I, I meet you and you have a positive attribute. I give you an affinity bias, meaning I put a halo on you. I meet you and you're having a bad day, you give me a bad look, whatever. I hear you talking poorly to your staff. I associate that as a negative act, so I'm going to see everything through those prisms. And that can be very problematic is that. I remember a case not too long ago, about four years ago, when I was still with the Secret Service, where my partner and I were doing a search warrant on a child predator. And we come into the kitchen and there's a chihuahua and there's a pit bull. And there's a lot of stereotypes about those two animals, right? And I don't want to have to ever be in a situation where I have to shoot a dog. And thankfully, it didn't come to that.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  But pit bulls can hurt you, right? So what's my focus? My focus is on the pit bull. I had put horns on the pit bull, a halo on the chihuahua.

• 42:17Lewis Howes?

  Chihuahuas will bite you, though.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Well, as I found out, Louis.

• 42:20Lewis Howes?

  You tried to pet it?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  So as I was focused, he came around behind me, jumped up and grabbed me by the testicles.

• 42:25Lewis Howes?

  The chihuahua?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Chihuahua.

• 42:26Lewis Howes?

  No way. It came up and jumped and bit you?

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Didn't just bite.

• 42:30Lewis Howes?

  By the-

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Latched on and treated it like a Nerf ball.

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my God. Like, ah.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  So I have to holster up. My partner, Ryan, is laughing. Uh, the bad guy in the kitchen's laughing. I think the pit bull's probably laughing that his little toady's taking care of business. And thankfully, the Duluth Trading Company, their fire hose pants kept me talking at the octave that I'm talking at right now. So horns and halos can be very, very difficult. And not too long before that, I had fallen victim to it in a criminal case where there's a missing female and she is dating two bike members of a motorcycle outlaw gang. One member's a one percenter from the standpoint of, uh, he's 6'4", he's 250, numerous felonies. The ATF had thought he had done other nefarious things in his past.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  If you were spinning back up Sons of Anarchy and you needed a villain, he'd be the guy.

• 43:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  The other guy was a hangar, didn't even have a bike, 5'6", 130 pounds, dripping wet, looked like an accountant. So they're both best friends. They're dating the same female. She's disappeared.

• 43:31Lewis Howes?

  They don't know they're dating?

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 43:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  It's a long story.

• 43:34Lewis Howes?

  Okay, gotcha.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. So very Jerry Springer-ish, okay? No offense to Jerry Springer, but, uh, yeah, there was a lot going on there. But what's our assumption? When I talk to the detectives, I'm like, I made the mistake of saying, what do you think? Ah, we don't think this guy's capable of her to fly. And if you looked at him, you didn't think that either. And this guy, he's a bad dude, chances are. And when you hear that, horns and halos get assigned. So I do a polygraph on the little 5'6" guy first, and I ask him about his participation in her disappearance. He fails. What's my assumption? My assumption is maybe he saw it after the fact, he has knowledge. So for three or four hours, I'm talking to him. Let me help you. You're probably afraid of him. I'm Secret Service, let me help you. And he keeps saying, that's not it.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  That's not it. And the detective outside the room, she finally comes in, knocks on the door, she goes, hey, you mind if I say something? Because she had picked it up. She didn't have the confirmation bias. She goes, you keep saying that's not it. What is it? And he goes, I killed her, cut her up in six pieces and threw her in the river.

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  No way. Holy cow.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Confirmation bias can cloud-

• 44:36Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  So use horns and halos for, I'm walking down the street late at night. Law enforcement, use it when you're walking up to a patrol car and you get that gut instinct. Trust it then unequivocally. When it comes to when you've got time to digest and you don't need to make a quick decision, try to get a couple more interactions before you throw those horns and halos on somebody. Because Ted Bundy did a great job with first impressions.

• 45:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode. And the School of Greatness drops new conversations every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday around money, mindset, healing, manifestation, and relationships. And if you're not yet following the show, then you're missing all of them. Please tap the follow button right now and you'll get notified the moment every new episode drops because the next one might be exactly what you need. Now, let's get back to the conversation. This fall, LL Bean is celebrating the moments people look forward to all year. The first school drop-off, the first sweater weather day, and the first chilly evening around the fire pit. For over 100 years, LL Bean has been part of these traditions.

• 45:45Lewis Howes?

  Crunching leaves in Maine-made Bean boots, cheering from the sidelines in Scotch plaid flannel, and walking the dog in a rugged field coat. So grab the layers and people you love and get outside. Visit llbean.com to shop the fall collection. LL Bean, be an outsider. When you're at work, you never know when you'll be interrupted. But with the Dell Pro powered by Intel Core Ultra with V Pro, no matter what distracts you, your laptop won't. It's battery optimized for the way you work with built-in intelligence that quiets distractions when you need to focus. Your laptop will help keep you locked in, even when it's Bring Your Dog to Work Day.

• 46:30Lewis Howes?

  Built for those who stay in the flow. The Dell Pro, built for you. Dell.com/Dell-Pro. So do you not put horns or halos on anyone then? Or do you try to put halos on a bad person so that they will give you more information? Or how does that-

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Not really with them. I never want them to think that I look at them poorly, right? So I treat kind of horns and halos or a first impression as a hypothesis, not a conclusion. And I want more information to get the conclusion behind it.

• 47:03Lewis Howes?

  But when you're internally thinking about them or speaking to them and you're with a bad guy, are you putting a halo on them so that you are warm and kind to them?

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I see what you're saying.

• 47:14Lewis Howes?

  So that they will reveal more?

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so let me give you a for instance. So what do you think should happen to these two people? I'm gonna give you a short guy and I'm gonna give you a tall guy. All right? And I think this will kind of explain it to your listeners. So the short guy, he was a veteran of World War I for his country. He served his country by all accounts valiantly. He was decorated for his activities in World War I, very introverted guy. He didn't really find his voice till the 1930s. He was very introverted, but he became a much better political speaker in the 1930s. He was the leader of his military juggernaut. And his actions, once again, very short guy, his actions led to the burning deaths, if we just want to focus on burning deaths of a million people. So that's a short guy. Then we got a tall guy, very tall guy.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  And this, uh, you know, coming up on 9/11, so very, very tall guy, um, very religious guy, very, very rich guy, fought off two empires. Both empires that he fought off, he fought them off on the behalf of the other empire, okay? He fought what some people would say are, by using terroristic type means, because he was fighting an enemy that had much more resources. And he caused the death of 24,000 people, but exponential amounts of gold and treasure, so to speak. So we have short guy and we have tall guy. And you can make one of them disappear from the annals of history. What would Louis do?

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  I mean, just from that information, the person who kills a million, you would think you'd want to remove them versus 25,000 from that.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 48:45Lewis Howes?

  But I don't know, is there more context?

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Well, you just killed Harry S. Truman.

• 48:49Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Instead of George Washington. So when we talk horns and halos, right? And that's not a gotcha question. Nobody's ever gotten that right when I say it to my students. But it just shows, when you're given facts and you're not given any more context-

• 49:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. We put the horns and the halos and it changes our assumptions. So if you look at it from this standpoint, Harry Truman, okay? With Curtis LeMay and his firebombing campaign in Japan, basically dropping bombs, napalm on civilian centers, and then the atomic bomb at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If you look at those actions and I try to be his buddy afterwards, you mentioned how would I kind of use this? Here's what I would do. I'd say, Harry, so let's say I'm interrogating Harry, we're at the Nuremberg Trials. Harry, um, who would I blame? I blame the Empire of Japan. Say, Harry, look, December 6th, we're isolationists. We're staying out of the war. That's the sentiment of this country. But the Empire of Japan killed 3,000 of our soldiers, sailors, and airmen on one day. Then I would understand, but not agree.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  And I say, I get it, it's tough because you're writing letters home to soldiers, sailors, and airmen, talking about how they gave their lives. And I'd diminish impact by saying, Harry, let's be honest, a million people died over the course of that three, four months? Millions of more would have died if we would have had to land in mainland Japan. Then I'd demonstrate empathy with stories and analogies and say, Harry, it's kind of like a, an ER doc and she's there at 2:30 in the morning and a horrific car accident comes in with a little five-year-old kid that just looks like your kid, and he's got a baseball uniform on. And mangled leg, you gotta make a decision, am I gonna take the leg or not? If you take the leg, he's never gonna play baseball again. If you don't take the leg, he may die.

• 50:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  You took the leg and that's what you did here. And the buck stops here. And then I summarize.

• 50:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  We're talking about, you didn't start it, but you ended it. So, Harry, boom. And that's how you'd interrogate Harry Truman. If you're gonna interrogate Osama bin Laden, you have to talk to him like he's George Washington because in his mind, he is. Everyone's the hero of their own adventure.

• 50:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Man, so is that what you call the buddy framework then?

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  The off-ramp.

• 50:48Lewis Howes?

  Yep. Can you walk me through the criminal equation that you use to understand when someone commits a crime? And does it also apply to everyday bad decisions too?

• 50:57Speaker 01

  A hundred percent it does. Uh, yeah. So if you think about all crime, most crime can be kind of boiled down to an equation. You have need, possibility, plus opportunity, their own internal justifications and all of that is almost squared by stress. Meaning stress is like the gasoline on that, that numerator. And then you got a denominator, which is social bonds and chances and consequences of getting caught. So that's what keeps you from doing those bad things. So if you want to think of, have you seen Breaking Bad?

• 51:30Lewis Howes?

  Couple of episodes, not the whole thing, but I.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  So Walter White, you understand the gist of it, right? We got a chemistry teacher gets in the meth game. All right. So if you look at his need, his need was he needed money because he'd just been diagnosed with cancer. What was his ability? He was a.

• 51:44Lewis Howes?

  He could make meth.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  He could make meth. What was his opportunity? He knew Jesse that had the distribution networks. What was his own justification? Hey, people are going to do it anyway. Why don't I provide him a better?

• 51:55Lewis Howes?

  Better service.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Product.

• 51:56Lewis Howes?

  Better product.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Better service.

• 51:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  And what were his stressors? Well, just season one through five, the stressors are all over.

• 52:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  His social bonds are a mess and his chances of getting caught. He's got a brother-in-law that's a DEA agent.

• 52:07Lewis Howes?

  Crazy. Yeah.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  So literally you can almost take any kind of crime or it could be embezzlement from work. It could be whatever, and you can almost plug that in and then reverse engineer it to see what caused them to wake up that day to do that bad thing? And then try to be their buddy in that regard.

• 52:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Without calling a liar or a bad person.

• 52:27Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, that's so hard to do for me.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:28Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard to do for me. Has there been an instance in your life personally where you've failed your own strategies because of emotion?

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. I think it's really hard with your kids.

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  Ah, tell me more.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Well, so I, I can just think without, I don't want to put the, uh, the offending party on, on notice, but uh, somebody, you know, my son was an athlete and you get a coach that is doing something that's obviously wrong.

• 52:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  And inappropriate. Would I like to go be his buddy? Sure. Do I teach that? I did not practice what we preach in that situation.

• 53:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  It is tough.

• 53:02Lewis Howes?

  You take it personally then?

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:03Lewis Howes?

  This is not, I mean, obviously you have, you know, a sex offender, the children coming in. It's, it's not your kid, but you could take it very personally about how horrible that is and still get angry. But when it's your child, I bet it's like, how do you really regulate your emotions?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm interrogating the equation at work. My kid's not an equation.

• 53:26Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, it is tough. And I don't know, I don't know the way around that.

• 53:31Lewis Howes?

  How did you handle that situation?

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Uh, I think initially poorly.

• 53:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  And then, uh, as, as I finally realized that my blood was boiling and realized logic comes after emotion. And I'm putting up this coach's guard that I, I, I finally regulated myself a little bit.

• 53:50Lewis Howes?

  And then you were able to.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, then it was all good.

• 53:51Lewis Howes?

  Resolve it. Yeah. In your mind, what are the most applicable tactics to everyday life that you've learned through interrogations then?

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Oh man, perception versus perspective.

• 54:00Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 54:01Speaker 01

  So we, I learned this many, many years ago from the standpoint of, look, we all have a perspective of things, but we got to be careful about our perception. I mean, I've got a perspective on my own personal life. Those are my shoes that I'm in is that I've got to be able to get in their shoes. And people say, oh, empathy, this, no, I have to understand the other person's perspective. I have a perception about them and I have to be very, very careful about that is because I don't know why they did that thing. And I've been very surprised about why people.

• 54:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Did certain things and that if I would have gone upon an assumption of my perception, I would have been a hundred percent wrong. So that's one of the things that universally that's kind of taught me is, is to try to understand things from, from their, their point of view. And even if it's not right, um, how they got there could be problematic, but to get the mission done and to find out the truth, I have to look at it from their perspective. It is, it's easier for me when we worked homicides to understand a homicide most of the time. Because it was gang related, it was drug related, it was disrespect, whatever. When we would deal with somebody that would hurt an infant, it, you.

• 55:17Lewis Howes?

  It's like why?

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's, and that's the hard part is to try to put that on. That always caused some, some scars. Okay. It's something that I had to deal with is that, um, I was blessed. I kind of had three different stints in our polygraph program, Chicago, St. Louis. And then, uh, the greatest thing for me was going to teach and taking a step back from being in the trenches. Because when you are being people's buddy that don't deserve a buddy.

• 55:41Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  I thought I was having a heart attack. I thought I was having panic attacks and it was cognitive dissonance.

• 55:46Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  If I was getting on a plane and we travel armed, so I don't want to have to be in a situation where, oh my gosh, I'm having a panic attack. I don't want to lose my gun. I didn't want to, you know, in law enforcement, we always view as, uh, and we don't want to go talk to the therapist. That shows you're weak. That's the old, the old me, you know? I didn't realize it's not the, the, you know, the old saying about it's not the water outside the hull that sinks you. It's the water that gets inside the hull.

• 56:09Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  And in talking to these people, I thought I was fine, but I wasn't self, taking care of myself.

• 56:15Lewis Howes?

  You weren't releasing that energy too.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  I was just, hey, we got another case. We got another case. And it's always another molester and oh my God, I gotta do this because if I don't do this, you get almost like a, a God complex. If I don't do this, this.

• 56:27Lewis Howes?

  More kids are going to suffer or die or.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  And it's, it's not right is that you have to take an inventory of where you're at. And, and finally, I was getting to the point where I had to go in and I, and I felt like I was having a heart attack. They did a catheter on me and they're like, oh yeah, they're like, your heart's fine. And it was, I was rotten mentally from the standpoint of, I started seeing neighbors as what's their ulterior motive? Supervise, you know, what, what's his problem? Like when you deal with people that have horns all the time, you start to kind of.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  Everyone, well then everyone's got something.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Everybody's got something.

• 56:59Lewis Howes?

  Like there's evil people out here. So how do I?

• 57:01Speaker 01

  And when you're constant, when the operational tempo is such, you don't have a chance to kind of decompress. It'd be like this, when you think of your, your football career, like every week, what's your preparation like?

• 57:11Lewis Howes?

  A lot of training, a lot of, a lot of hitting, a lot of training, a lot of.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Game tape.

• 57:15Lewis Howes?

  Aggression, the other, focus.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Focus, but would you say it's 95% prep and then really only 5% perform?

• 57:22Lewis Howes?

  Uh, I don't know. I mean, it's probably like 50, 50, maybe it's like you're prepping and then you're, you're practicing and then you play at the end of the week. Yeah.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  But 60 minutes of game time.

• 57:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So I guess 90% prep with training and then.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  So within that game time versus practice, you've got time to decompress, you've got times to heal, rehabilitate. The problem in law enforcement is we're so.

• 57:42Lewis Howes?

  Every day is game time.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Every day is game time.

• 57:44Lewis Howes?

  Eight hours a day.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  You don't have time to train. So you don't have time to go out and do control tactics and range and this, you do the bare minimum and.

• 57:53Lewis Howes?

  You learn on the job.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  You learn on the job. And that's the problem. And it's also you don't have time to heal.

• 57:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Is that the average person in law enforcement, from 911 operators to EMTs, to state troopers, to federal agents, they may experience two or 300, uh, traumatic events where a 911 operator's on the phone when somebody dies. A state trooper's pulling up to a horrific vehicle accident where seven people died. A detective has to go give a death notification. We have to talk to these horrific people.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  But you gotta go to work the next day.

• 58:28Lewis Howes?

  Oh my, yeah, there's no time off.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  There's no time off. So for me, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, I would wear the same shirt to work. I had a great therapist that she would say almost, you treat it like a, uh, almost like a medical examiner has a laboratory coat. You take it off, I'd leave it in my car. I'd play a game of chess real quick on my phone before I walked in the house.

• 58:46Lewis Howes?

  Clear your mind, clear your energy.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Dissociate.

• 58:49Lewis Howes?

  Man, but you might've just seen the most horrific thing and then 30 minutes later, like have to be with your wife and kids.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And especially when your kids are the ages of some of the victims.

• 58:56Lewis Howes?

  Ah, gosh, it's like having to play that role to be the buddy. And knowing, but you're doing it to try to like get the bad guys, but it still affects you emotionally.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And that's why I think we're finally trying to do a better job now of, especially the people that have to look at these images and these horrific images to decompress, talk to people and realize it's not, uh, it's not a weakness, it's a strength to actually realize you need to talk to somebody and you need help. So I'm glad to see that that seed change is kind of happening.

• 59:25Lewis Howes?

  Is there a moment or a case that you still carry that changed how you see people permanently?

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Wow. I would say in the many, many cases that I've worked, most of the people that I dealt with were not evil. Not evil.

• 59:39Lewis Howes?

  What were they?

• 59:40Speaker 01

  They were people that situational factors created an outcome. There was something I I see I see chapter thirty. They're thirty years old. If I went back in chapter five, ten, fifteen, I would see all kinds of disruptions to that asteroid that changed that trajectory.

• 59:56Lewis Howes?

  That led them to that moment to take that action.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Not to make it right.

• 59:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  But most people I talked to, I could do that. However, there were a few people that weren't like that. We had, we would do a lot of cases in South Carolina. They were very proactive trying to catch predators. They're very great. And Kevin, one of the commanders down there, was great about doing these to catch predator operations where we kind of try to, it's almost like a preemptive burn, how, you know, out here with forest fires, you want to sometimes burn, you know, and catch the bad people that are out there so they don't maybe abduct a kid, things like that. So there'd be online detectives go out and perpetrate themselves as.

• 1:00:34Lewis Howes?

  Messaging people, messaging kids and say, hey, let's hang out as.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:38Lewis Howes?

  Whatever. Yeah.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  You've seen the Chris Hansen stuff and and that's what we were doing in this situation. You know, there's a, there's a funny part of it and there's a not so funny part of it is that one of these offenders had said, hey, I've been caught before. You say you live near a lake. I'm not buying it. I need proof of life. And this was just when AI was just starting. So without getting into sources and methods, Kevin had a profile photo that was actually him that they had doctored a little bit. I won't get into too many specifics, but he ran back to his house. He lived on the lake and he got on his dock and he put on his wife's bikini. And of course, they had to get rid of all the hair and, you know, the chest hair and get rid of that. But they recreated the twelve year old version of the previous photo that the person thought he was chatting with.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  And that was the straw that broke his proverbial back and he jumped in his car, came down and they they arrested him. And so, you know, you, you, you see those moments, you're like, oh, that's great. You know, wonderful. But then the next case is a guy that shows up and he is, this is where we got to be careful about what we put online. This female who was a babysitter, she

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  had a pretty good social media presence and she was in his orbit.

• 1:01:52Lewis Howes?

  It's like a daycare or just a babysitter?

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  She had like kind of both, but the problem is it wasn't really a regulated daycare. So there weren't a lot of people around observing.

• 1:02:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  And he observed her as a mark, not because he liked her, but because she had access. And he kind of scrubbed her social media and scraped it. Because think about what you can find out from somebody's social media likes, pain points, whatever the case may be. And he created a mythical Prince Charming of himself that she was like, this guy's amazing.

• 1:02:18Lewis Howes?

  He was a Tinder swindler.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:02:20Lewis Howes?

  Kind of that guy.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Hundred percent with obviously different, you know, motives.

• 1:02:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  And he, I always say, what else? And he admitted to one infant, what else? Another infant, thirty infants.

• 1:02:32Lewis Howes?

  Ah, that he had sexually abused.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  That he had sexually assaulted.

• 1:02:35Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  And the way he described it was just, I won't even.

• 1:02:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  I won't even get into it because it's triggering is just like, that for me was when I was like, you know what? Clock's ticking. I'm eligible to retire. I love teaching this stuff. To me, teaching it was a great way to kind of, you know, give back and but yeah, it was time to.

• 1:02:55Lewis Howes?

  How do you get someone like that who's done, you know, horrible crime with kids to actually open up and reveal that they did this, knowing that, don't they know they're going to go to jail by revealing this?

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Some do. Some have been having that conversation in their head. They know what they did is wrong.

• 1:03:13Lewis Howes?

  Really? So this person knew it was wrong?

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  They knew it was wrong.

• 1:03:16Lewis Howes?

  Because a sociopath, would they know it's wrong?

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, they still know it's wrong. They just might not have emotion for the person that they're doing it against. Yeah, it's like, I always get that question on polygraph, like, would this person pass if they don't think it's wrong? They still know they pulled the trigger. They still know they choked this person.

• 1:03:31Lewis Howes?

  They did the crime.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  They did the crime. So, yeah, they still know that they did it. But once again, it's creating that space where I'm not judging them. And I'm just creating a forum where just like on a podcast, we can just air it out. And then that's what he did. And I, I didn't show that judgment.

• 1:03:50Lewis Howes?

  After the fifth kid that he reveals, you don't have, how do you internally not show disgust on your face externally?

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, just keep my eyebrows up. Yeah, it's like when you first meet people, you do a quick eyebrow flash. It keeps you from code neutral. But yeah, it's almost like I had it kept there. Like, oh, this guy's crazy.

• 1:04:11Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:04:13Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just when people are talking, a lot of times they don't realize what's leaking out. And so, once again, by not judging, he had, he had never told anybody this before. So everybody wants to share cathartic.

• 1:04:24Lewis Howes?

  That's so interesting, right?

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:31Lewis Howes?

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• 1:05:04Lewis Howes?

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• 1:05:49Lewis Howes?

  different schedules. Your mental health doesn't need a special occasion or anyone else's permission to matter. BetterHelp can connect you with a therapist who gets you so you can make space for what matters to you. Visit betterhelp.com slash greatness to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash greatness. What has been your biggest personal challenge with all the, the information that you've learned in the Secret Service? Is there anything that holds you back with the information you know as a human being?

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  As a human being? Wow. Um.

• 1:06:23Lewis Howes?

  Like, do you?

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  I would say not letting your accomplishments or chasing accomplishments, right? Is it coming in young? I thought, man, I need to do this. I need these arrests. I need to get on this protected detail. I need to do X, Y, and Z. Because those were resume things, right? And this kind of all came full circle for me where I had access because of the polygraph program and where I was, the cities I were in, we had good relationships with the local police department. So I got to run a lot of polygraphs. And I was blessed to have that opportunity that in one year, two thousand and fifteen, my supervisor put in for me to win agent of the year. And, you know, when you win that from the Secret Service, you think, oh, I've arrived and.

• 1:07:04Lewis Howes?

  I made it.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  I made it, right? And then you go up there and it was wonderful. They flew my family up there and there I am, my son, he's got his, you know, suit on and my wife's up there and, you know, you're feeling proud of yourself. And then you think this was built upon talking about somebody doing their worst day. And, yeah, this is a great honor, but just down the street from our headquarters is, it was raining. It was a terrible weather day. There were uniformed vision officers, technicians, agents that were standing out in the rain. They were cold. They didn't have that opportunity. They were, you know, all they cared about is, is my push on time, right? And so it, I felt almost afterwards like Donnie Brasco, when he gets the gold watch afterwards, is

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  because to get all that, I had had horrific mental, like, dealing with that stuff. I had been away from my family. You know, you get the, the hotel status. You're like, oh, I have lifetime titanium.

• 1:07:59Lewis Howes?

  That's not good.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  That means you spent three and a half, four years away from your family in this property.

• 1:08:04Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  So I think to me, that's when it became less about doing the thing. And can you be a force multiplier and, and be what my view of greatness is?

• 1:08:16Lewis Howes?

  Impacting others to do.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Impacting others is that I can't tell you how great it is when somebody else calls you or emails you and says, hey, man, and I don't, I mean, I remember them. They said, you taught me this and this is what this did for me. It just, you can't.

• 1:08:31Lewis Howes?

  That's awesome.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Lewis Howes?

  How good are you at detecting a lie without the polygraph test when you're in front of a person?

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Probably not very good.

• 1:08:39Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  And when I say it's relative.

• 1:08:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  But I get it wrong a lot. Like, if we were doing two truths and a lie, that's not, people like to do that. It's not really a realistic scenario. But what I like to do is I like to give people an open and ended forum. It's a dog without a leash. They tell me a story. And then you look for certain statements. So then next, after that transitional moment, so a lot of times, that's where people sandwich the lie or they sandwich the omission in. So omission is the most common way people lie. So within that, then let's go to that time period and let's now force a yes or no question. That's to me, the closest thing I can get to a polygraph without a polygraph is.

• 1:09:15Lewis Howes?

  What does that look like? Omission is the closest thing to a lie. What does that mean?

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  So omission would be, obviously, you just don't tell me, right? You just, it's less cognitive load. You don't have to remember the lie. You just don't tell me the lie. It's not as much psychological stress. I know we were talking offline about how you have a hard time lying sometimes because you don't want to lie and you maybe feel like you're.

• 1:09:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  So a polygraph is going to measure blood volume, heart rate, breathing pattern and quality and your galvanic skin response, basically sweat activity. And it's going to do that for a certain period of time after I provide you stimulus in the form of a yes no question and you provide me a response as a yes no question. Without the polygraph, that's, it's still happening. I'm just not seeing it on my monitor.

• 1:09:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  But it may manifest itself in your word choice and your vocal inflection and how you choose to answer it. So the best way I like to look at this, Louis, is if I ask my daughter, did you clean your room? And she says, yes. There's two types of yeses. There's yes and there's yes.

• 1:10:12Lewis Howes?

  That means no.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  So vocal inflection, it's not perfect. Once again, view these as check engine lights. But a high pitched voice is kind of like, are you, are you, do you believe me? Right? Delay. So if I'm, if I'm baselining you and we're asking a bunch of questions. And it's no, no, no, and then no.

• 1:10:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, delay.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Delay.

• 1:10:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And you're, you're thinking about it. Uh, do I want to tell them yes or no? Yeah.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Exclusive qualifiers, usually typically normally. So if I say, I typically don't cheat. Let's say you ask me about cheating in school and I say, oh, typically I don't cheat. Why did you say typically? That's a truthful statement. People don't want to lie.

• 1:10:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Most of the time I don't do that.

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  Most time I don't. Normally, usually.

• 1:10:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Verbal, nonverbal disconnect. So yes, or, or if I went like this, see, that's hard to do. No, yes. So if I'm speaking something that my body language is in, you know, contrary to.

• 1:11:07Lewis Howes?

  So someone shakes their head no, but they say yes. What are they really saying?

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  That's one of the few times where I'm really going to look at the body language and be like, ooh, I'm kind of erring on the body language like that. You were so worried about what you were going to verbally say to me and what leaked out. But once again, not a hundred percent. It's that check engine light. Where I'm like, I'm going to follow that one up later.

• 1:11:25Lewis Howes?

  There's also certain cultures where people kind of like shake their head no, and they say yes all the time, right?

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  It's a hundred percent. There's, and there's agreeable people. So once again, I'm taking these things all into context and I'm not immediately calling them out going, Louis, you just did that.

• 1:11:38Lewis Howes?

  You're just taking the information in.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Taking it in. Um, what are some other things that we look at? Just not answering the, I want you to sit there and think, when you ask somebody a question, did they answer the question?

• 1:11:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  If they gave you delay, equivocation, uh, if they confronted you for asking it.

• 1:11:54Lewis Howes?

  Why are you asking me that?

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:55Lewis Howes?

  Then you're like, oh.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Then it's, once again, it's the check engine light. So it's almost easier to just view it as, did they answer my question? So like, if you go back to the Jerry Sandusky situation, where Bob Costas talked to him on, uh, Real Sports. And he said, um, are you a pedophile? And Jerry said, no. It's a legalistic term. He didn't view himself as a pedophile. He answered so quickly. Then Costas did an amazing job and said, are you sexually attracted to, to young children? And he goes, am I sexually attracted to young children? Sexually attracted to young children? I mean, I like spending time with them. I like hanging out with them, but no. Well, he, he gave a lot of truthful statements. He likes hanging out with him. He likes spending time with him. But he couldn't answer the actual question. So that's what I think the biggest, the easiest thing for your listeners to pick up on is

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  when you ask a yes or no question, did you actually get an answer? Or was it obfuscation? Was it delay? Was it evasion?

• 1:12:46Lewis Howes?

  Have you ever had to take a lie detector test?

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:49Lewis Howes?

  Do you fail it? Do you pass it? Like, how does it?

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Well, I must have passed. I got the job.

• 1:12:53Lewis Howes?

  I guess. Have you taken one since then?

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Oh, so we had to do one to get back into the polygraph program and I did okay on that one.

• 1:13:00Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  My understanding.

• 1:13:01Lewis Howes?

  You did, you passed enough.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  I passed evidently.

• 1:13:04Lewis Howes?

  If you were hypothetically trying to pass a test.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Lewis Howes?

  A lie detector test. And there wasn't something you did wrong. But maybe it wasn't like a hundred percent accurate. You're like, eh, I just don't want them to know that.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:20Lewis Howes?

  But I'm not like lying about like some wrong crime. Like, eh, I just didn't want them to know this one thing. Cause it makes me, makes me, makes, makes my character look a little off. Yeah. Is there a way you would get around that? Or do you just say, you know what, just you're just, you would just try to be as honest as you can, keep your heart rate down and just hope for the best.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  So the advice I always give people is look, think of this like a magnetometer. And I'm not, like a what? Like a magnetometer, like you're going through TSA. I can't tell if that's a paperclip or I can't tell if that's a handgun. It, you may be making a mountain out of a molehill. So before we take this test, what do we need to talk about? That you need to kind of undo your pockets? Because once again, I want to prime the situation so that they can be honest with me.

• 1:14:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  I don't want them to fail and then I have to understand why they failed. I want them to provide me the information. And I will be just to your listeners out there, anybody applying to federal law enforcement, they look at a whole person concept. A lot of these things that, that used to be, especially with drug use and stuff, that used to be, you know, 10, 15 years ago, oh, don't even apply.

• 1:14:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  Now they look at the time, the place, the relevance, and if the, the best thing you can do is you're probably.

• 1:14:28Lewis Howes?

  Distance away from it. If you're 10, 15, 20 years away from it or something, then.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but even now, like with marijuana, because it's legal on the state side.

• 1:14:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  The time delineation is like a year or sometimes.

• 1:14:37Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  So as long as the person comes in and they're like, look, my application forms are correct. All those forms are pulled off, or all the questions are pulled off the forms. So if when you mail that, email that, whatever, if in your heart of hearts, you knew that that was truthful, you're going to pass. It's when somebody goes on Reddit, or they do this and they do that, and they're like, oh, here's what I have to do to pass a polygraph. I get this sometimes when I fly. I'll be flying and I'll check in with the pilot and, uh, they'll be like, where are you going? I'm going to Toledo. What are you doing? I'm going to run some polygraphs. And they're like, polygraph? That doesn't work. And you're like, well, TSA is not a hundred percent, but you're trusting that with 300 people on this plane, right?

• 1:15:15Lewis Howes?

  Snap.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  And, and I, and I don't mean it as a shot. I mean it as like, why do you use it? Because it does work. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. It's the best mousetrap we've got.

• 1:15:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  And then they're like, well, well, can't you beat it? And I'm like, well, and, and you know, it's very civil conversation, but I'll say, how big is your book to fly the 737? Oh man, it's 1500 pages. I say, could I read that? Yeah. If I read it, could I fly your book? And they're like, no, you need flight time. And I go, what do you mean? Well, because you wouldn't know how much this would result in that. And, and I say, it's the same thing with polygraph. You can read on Reddit or online, do this, do that to affect the outcome of the exam, but you don't see what I'm seeing. And if I see normal physiology every day and you don't know how much input creates this, now I know you're trying to do something untoward. And it would be like if WADA came in to test you.

• 1:16:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  And you gave them a watered down sample.

• 1:16:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:16:04Lewis Howes?

  What is this?

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Why are you giving them a watered down urine sample? You must be up to something. So for honest people, you know, follow the process.

• 1:16:12Lewis Howes?

  Be honest.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  Just be honest. So many people that think they're going to be a false positive. Take bad advice and unfortunately it works against them.

• 1:16:21Lewis Howes?

  And it just causes more stress afterwards.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  It causes stress and that agency may just be like, look, we're not going to take a chance now.

• 1:16:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Wow. Well, you got a great book out, Brad. It's called Tell Me Everything, A Secret Service Agent's Proven Strategies For Earning Trust, Revealing The Truth And Communicating With Anyone. And in a world where I feel like relationships matter the most, and sometimes revealing stuff about ourselves in relationships, uh, specifically intimate relationships can make or break the relationship, you know? Even when, you know, my wife, when we first started dating, you know, I, in my mind, I said, I'm going to tell her everything. She asked me anything like, and I don't have the cleanest past of like, and again, nothing I've done horrible, but it's not like things that I'm proud of when I was like 12, right? It's like, okay, I used to steal, I used to whatever, like these things.

• 1:17:11Lewis Howes?

  And I was like, anything she asked me that I feel ashamed about, I'm going to share it. And I go, she may not like it. It may not work out, but I don't want to hold on to hiding something about myself to put someone I might be with for a long time, right? Or forever. And thankfully I chose the right woman because when I revealed these things, she didn't give me contempt. Right. She didn't look at me like, you did that when you were 12? You did that when you were eight? You know, you did all these things. Like, she didn't look at me like I was a bad person, which made me want to be like, oh, let me share everything. You know, it's like, here's all my flaws. And, um, and I think that goes a long way in relationships. When you're building trust and connection with someone. So maybe she read your book before I met her again. That's like,

• 1:17:55Lewis Howes?

  but I think it goes a long way when you, when you can connect with someone and not show them disgust with something they've done in their past. Whether you want to hang out with that person or not, but building rapport and connection. So I want people to get your book. Um, you're also on, uh, bradleybeeler.com. Is that your website, right?

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:16Lewis Howes?

  And then you're on Instagram, LinkedIn.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Brad Beeler 1860.

• 1:18:19Lewis Howes?

  Brad Beeler 1865. Yeah. Uh, but the book is Tell Me Everything. Who do you think would get the most out of this book?

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Well, of course I'm going to tell you everyone. Parents, teachers, coaches, right? That's what the publishing company will tell you to say. I originally wrote it for law enforcement and thought, this is what I'm going to go with, right? I've made all these mistakes and luckily I had a great editor that's like, man, these are universal lessons. About how to prepare for an interaction, how to make a great first impression, how to use all your senses in interaction. Um, how to further your communication, how to detect deception. And then when somebody does you wrong, how do you not punch them in the face?

• 1:18:54Lewis Howes?

  Right. It's funny when I had, uh, Evie Pompadas on a few different times. I can't remember what the question was I asked her, but she started with something. I think I said like,

• 1:19:07Lewis Howes?

  How do you know if someone is lying or something like this, right? Or someone's lying or telling the truth? And she goes, well, everyone lies.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Lewis Howes?

  Right? And she goes, everyone lies.

• 1:19:16Lewis Howes?

  And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess everyone, you know, it's like, I was playing into it, right? I guess we did. She goes, it just depends what type of lie you're telling, right? Is that what it is?

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:23Lewis Howes?

  Everyone lies, depends how you're telling the lie.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Why the lie?

• 1:19:26Lewis Howes?

  Why the lie?

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like.

• 1:19:28Lewis Howes?

  So you lie as well?

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  Everybody lies. I mean, you said it.

• 1:19:32Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  We're a tribal-based culture that if, uh, men would typically, and I'm not being sexist here, I'm just going evolution.

• 1:19:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  We would lie about our exploits. I brought this home to the, for us to eat. I killed this many buffalo, whatever.

• 1:19:44Lewis Howes?

  It was this big.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  It was this big.

• 1:19:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  And, and women, a lot of times would lie to keep the cohesion of the group together. And obviously that's changed in a lot of different ways, but we all lie. And if we lived in a society where people didn't lie, oof, that would be, I think, pretty damning.

• 1:20:01Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  I mean, it's weird to think that way, but you know, there's been movies made about that where just everybody is completely honest. And that's an interesting world that you live in. Um, I, I think lies, kind of like alcohol, are somewhat of a social lubricant.

• 1:20:16Lewis Howes?

  Huh. Who lies more, men or women in modern society?

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  Man, I'm not gonna get in trouble.

• 1:20:22Lewis Howes?

  Uh, based on your evidence of thousands.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  Children, let me go with that. I'm not gonna be, it's, it's kids because there's less, uh, consequences for their actions. So I think, uh, juveniles tend to lie more, yeah.

• 1:20:35Lewis Howes?

  What is it that women who you're interviewing and lie about more? Or how do they lie that difference than how men lie or what they lie about?

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't, I don't think there's much.

• 1:20:47Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I think that's, uh, I don't think that's gender specific. I really don't. I, I haven't picked up any differences in how or what they lie about.

• 1:20:54Lewis Howes?

  Who's harder at tricking you at lying?

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  Who's better at lying?

• 1:20:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes, who's better at lying? Women.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, women are better at lying, detecting lies and interrogating.

• 1:21:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, if my wife's asked me something, like, I, I know not to lie. I'm like, I know, there's sometimes I'm like, I don't want to say this, but I know if I don't say it, she's gonna, she's gonna understand something's off.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  Women's intuition is a thing.

• 1:21:15Lewis Howes?

  So I'm just like, ah, I'd rather her just not ask me certain things. Cause I'm like, well, you're gonna make me feel bad about stuff, you know? Um, but it's just so much easier to live your life being honest. Especially in intimate relationships. But is there ever a moment you should lie to your partner?

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  Oof, man. Yeah, I mean, there would be, I, I think there are times, my wife just beat cancer. And I think there were times that, and, and we've always, we always had a pretty good prognosis. But I think there were times where maybe my enthusiasm on the prognosis could have bordered on, am I being deceptive?

• 1:21:49Lewis Howes?

  Ah.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  But what, what's my motivation, right? So, yeah, there are, there are times like that.

• 1:21:54Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So women are better at lying and they're better at detecting lies.

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:00Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think that is? Is it, is it their emotional awareness? Is it spiritual? Is it they have something in their brain?

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  They're observant. We're men, we're very transactional in how we talk to people most of the time. A lot of times we'll be talking, we'll be looking away. I'll be thinking about, you know, the old Stephen Covey, and I don't listen to, uh, you know, listening to respond versus, you know, listening to understand. Is that I think women are a lot better at that as actually using eye contact, using body language. So when there's an incongruence between the lyrics, the soundtrack and the music video, they're better at picking it up because words are just words. How I say the words, the second line of communication. And then the third line of communication is my body language. So like, for instance, my wife, if she texts me with no emoji that says, I'm fine, I don't know what the frick that means. Is it, I'm fine, I'm fine, mm, I'm fine.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  If I can talk to her, at least I hear the voice. If I see her, I can put all that together. I, I think women are a lot better at being observant and being able to pick up on those things. What's normal, baselining you, those types of things.

• 1:23:03Lewis Howes?

  What is the one question you wish more people would ask you that would help them improve their life?

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  I would tell my son and, and, you know, focus on your lane and try to keep all the noise that's in the outside world. The people are trying to live rent-free in your head. Try to keep that out. And this goes from Marcus Aurelius to Viktor Frankl to, uh, Usain Bolt. You know, he trained four years for nine point four seconds, whatever it is, right? Is that stay in your lane. And, uh, you know, focus on, you know, those outcomes and, and not the outcomes, but focus on the processes that lead to the outcomes. I know Nick Saban had a famous quote about that is that just be vigorous in your day-to-day and your small victories so that you can achieve your, don't try to eat that elephant.

• 1:23:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  You know, the entire way, take those small little spoons.

• 1:23:51Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful. Uh, a couple of final questions, Brad, this is called the three truths. So imagine hypothetically, you get to live as long as you want. But it's your last day on earth in the future. And you get to create and accomplish everything you want from this moment until then. But for whatever reason, you gotta take all of your work with you. So this book, this conversation, any written material, videos that you have is gone hypothetically. But in the last day of your life, you get to leave behind three lessons to the world.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:19Lewis Howes?

  Three truths. What would those three truths be for you?

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  So Ted Lasso, I'm gonna give you a quote, be curious, not judgmental.

• 1:24:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  He said it was Mark Twain, it wasn't Mark Twain or Walt Whitman, I think he said it was. But be curious, not judgmental. If you are curious about other people and you use your mouth and ears in the proportion that the good Lord gave them to you, you'll learn a lot more, you will come across as genuine. Um, from the time I was a little kid, I'm always asking why? Start asking why a little bit more. Um, I would go with kind of what I said before is once again, stay in your lane as far as, don't be worried about what other people doing. Don't be worried so much about what other people saying. I think in today's society, we're always worried about the way we look, the way we act, those types of things. I would say lastly, perception versus perspective. I know we talked about this before, but too many times we look at things from our worldview, how we see things. The best thing about the Secret Service, I got to travel to 40 countries and I got to talk to,

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  see politicians, I got to see pedophiles and everything in between. And you realize really quickly that people are people. I remember I was in Tokyo not too long ago, before I left the Secret Service. And I was there on a protective visit and it's not about being in the limo, being on Air Force One. That wasn't my protection story. My protection story was usually near a dumpster or in a stairwell. That wasn't in the recruiting brochure. Three days in a stairwell with, uh, a Japanese Secret Service agent.

• 1:25:41Lewis Howes?

  You were three days in a stairwell?

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Three days in a stairwell.

• 1:25:43Lewis Howes?

  Just guarding your spot?

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, keeping them away from the protected area. And Google Translate and I have an amazing conversation with this Japanese Secret Service agent. And perspective-wise, if you think about it, he was from Nagasaki. Seventy, eighty, ninety years prior, what did we do?

• 1:26:01Lewis Howes?

  Bombed.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  Bombed him with an A-bomb. And here I am, she's, he's bringing in pastries. He, we're having this amazing conversation that we're similar. We're going through the same parental issues as together. And I give him a little $2 American flag pen and he pops open his cuff links and gives me his grandfather's cuff links. Pearl cuff links. So in a long way, I think that's positive to society that in one, two generations, we can change from wanting to kill an entire, and vice versa.

• 1:26:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  To we can break bread and, and get along. So trying to understand other people's perception and get away from propaganda.

• 1:26:39Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's cool. Um, I want to acknowledge you, Brad, for, you know, a lot of the work you did towards the end, which is around, you know, capturing pedophiles and really cleaning them, you know, off the streets and getting them into behind bars. Because I feel like that's probably one of the worst crimes. I mean, obviously murder is horrible, but I think sexually abusing a child has got to be one of the, the worst things that an adult can do. And so for you, using your skills and your knowledge, your tools to go do that, even though it's probably the thing that caused you to retire from doing it by seeing how disgusting that is, I want to acknowledge you for doing that work and, and saving a lot of kids' lives.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Thank you, I appreciate that.

• 1:27:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:27:20Lewis Howes?

  It's really powerful. Um, my final question for you, Brad, is what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  So I guess probably 25 years ago, I would view greatness as, man, winning the Super Bowl. Right? Being that person that does that one great thing. I think having gone through 25 years of seeing presidents, protectees and all that, I think it's about more sustained doing things that have an impact upon society. And I go back to being a 17-year-old kid, Union, Missouri. I've got a English teacher named Ms. Pertran. And Ms. Pertran, she taught English, she taught speech, she taught drama. She was the drama coach, all this stuff. And she suffered from unbelievably debilitating rheumatoid arthritis where she could barely walk. At her time, you know, moving pens and, and writing on the blackboard.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  But every day she got up and she did what is the, I think, one of the greatest things people can do is give you attention.

• 1:28:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  Okay? Even back then, before devices, giving someone your attention is priceless. And she would connect with thousands of students over 37 years. And she would make them the best version of themselves. She wasn't getting raises, she wasn't winning awards, she wasn't winning Super Bowls. She was in Union, Missouri, making these small-town kids better at the lyrics, the soundtrack and the dance, doing all part of it. And I know she, well, I was one of those kids that she affected and hopefully made me a much better communicator, that hopefully locked up some bad guys and, and did some good things. So she passed on and, and I know at her funeral, hundreds of her former students came there from all over the country to pay their respects. And she had no idea the impact that she had on people.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  So doing ordinary things at an unbelievably high level when nobody's keeping score and nobody's giving you an award for it.

• 1:29:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's greatness.

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  It's greatness.

• 1:29:07Lewis Howes?

  Thanks for being here, sir.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, buddy.

• 1:29:08Lewis Howes?

  Appreciate it.

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  Thanks, sir.

• 1:29:08Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode right now because we are on a mission to impact 100 million lives every single week. And every follow here on this podcast helps us reach more people. Make sure to hit the follow at the top of this show's page right now. It's the single biggest thing that you can do to support the show and the impact of us reaching you every single time we have new episodes. I appreciate you and I can't wait to see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

• 1:29:49Lewis Howes?

  And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

• 1:30:33Speaker 02

  Hey, Fidelity? Can I get a second opinion on stocks in the Fidelity app?

• 1:30:38Speaker 03

  With Fidelity, it's easy to get an outside opinion from independent experts in a single score.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  And then?

• 1:30:45Speaker 03

  When you're ready, trade US stocks and ETFs with no commissions.

• 1:30:49Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:30:50Speaker 03

  I am always right.

• 1:30:52Speaker 04

  Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. $0 commission does not apply to customers designated by Fidelity as a professional equity trader. A limited number of ETFs are subject to a service fee of $100. See details at fidelity.com/commissions. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC, member NYSE, SIPC.

• 1:31:07Speaker 05

  Oh, look. You just got added to a meeting about coordinating another meeting to prepare for the pre-meeting ahead of the follow-up meeting, which will, of course, require a recap meeting. And then another meeting. Hit your booking point? Book with Southwest and enter airplane mode.