Patrick Clancy’s 60 Minutes Interview & What Was Left Unsaid

After months of online speculation, conspiracy theories, and a formal statement about defamation from his attorney, Patrick Clancy sits down with CBS 60 Minutes. Accompanying him - is his new and pregnant wife, Rachel Danis. We break down every moment of the interview: the ‘Rom Com’ line, body language, netizen thoughts, and the responses that left the internet with more questions than answers. Did the interview accomplish what they came to do? Depends on who you ask. Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com

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• 1:27Speaker 00

  I cannot stress this enough. Please do your absolute best not to get sued for defamation. It is like, I can't say much, not that I've been sued for defamation, but even just any cease and anything with lawyers. It's a lot of money that I think people are not realizing, like when you were throwing on a TikTok, just think real quick before you post it because it will consume your entire life and it could wipe you dry of a lot of money. Earlier this month, Patrick Clancy's attorney released a statement. And in short, it states, "Over the past months, Patrick Clancy and his family have been subjected to a relentless, escalating and destructive defamation campaign. This campaign of misinformation has been launched and promoted by minor celebrities,

• 2:11Speaker 00

  so-called influencers, and outright conspiracy theorists who appear intent on boosting their own social media profiles and potential profit by publishing what they know to be outright falsehoods that Patrick was somehow involved in the death of his young children and other vile claims." Patrick's attorney states that "this has resulted in real-life threats to his reputation, livelihood, and life," which this is kind of like the foundational basis of a defamation lawsuit is, "here's what happened, here's the lie, here's the impact." Quote, "Enough is enough. This spread of blatant and baseless falsehoods must stop. Those responsible should understand that there will be consequences and every appropriate measure will be pursued to hold them accountable, including legally. Law enforcement has been notified."

• 2:57Speaker 00

  I guess you could say this is like a blanket cease and desist for the general public and a lot of TikToks that I've been seeing, but it's not really, but you get what I'm saying. And I will say that Patrick has multiple attorneys. I think one thing that people have also been holding on to is that Patrick Clancy did retain a criminal defense attorney. People thought that was very strange. Now, I will give some context. It is pretty typical when you are a witness and you testify on the stand. You're not, that is the type of attorney that you do get.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  I see.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  So this is not some sort of like, ooh, something strange is happening. That's weird. This is a very typical thing. Even Reddington was representing, well, Jan McKay, but that's a different story, right? So it's just, it's a thing. But one thing that I can say is we've seen this with cases before where people start pointing fingers at other individuals who are not the ones that are formally charged. And we've seen this before in cases, and I've said it before too, is that when people start pointing fingers at other individuals who are not the ones that are formally charged, typically it's accompanied by some sort of conversation about the investigation itself, leaving a lot to be desired. I can't help but wonder and feel that a lot of that blame should be on the investigators.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  If the investigation had been so thorough, and just to give you an idea of how un-thorough it's been, they left a whole drawer full of pill bottles and the Apple Watch. The Apple Watch that Lindsay had obsessively been wearing was left in the nightstand next to the very open window where Lindsay Clancy went out of. And on top of this very nightstand was the bloody knife that was apparently used for all of the marks on Lindsay, you know, the cuts on Lindsay's wrists and neck. That drawer had a bunch of pill bottles that now the Commonwealth is saying she crushed up these pills and then drank them in her lemonade. You know, she was trying to drug herself and self-exit.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  All of those pill bottles and the Apple Watch was inside the drawer that the police did not take in their search warrant. So I'm just saying.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  So how do we find out that it was not taken or it was even there?

• 5:13Speaker 00

  So Reddington goes to the house after he's hired and he's with Patrick Clancy and he's looking around the house. He opens the drawer and he's like, what the fuck? Well, he didn't say that, but basically his demeanor and the way that he presents this information in court is like, what the fuck?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's wild because these are the drugs that she took, right?

• 5:30Speaker 00

  Yes. They also find a ton of pill bottles. Well, they don't find, Patrick Clancy comes in a little bit later to the police station with a pill bottles that he was keeping in his truck that are Lindsay's pill bottles. So there's a lot of like weird, just strange. Some electronic devices are taken in during the search warrant, others are not. Why not? They're in the house. If you're taking one, why not all?

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Had the investigation been done in a way that most people can agree is very thorough and detailed, I think it would be incredibly difficult, I think, for a social media conspiracy to grow, pointing the finger at someone else that is not formally charged. Because the investigation is so thorough, you could say, well, that there's literally no way, because look, this is definitive proof in the evidence that they could not have been involved. But this is a less than spectacular investigation, in my opinion, and you can still wholeheartedly believe that Lindsay Clancy is the only person involved in her children's death. And regardless of whether you think it is psychosis or just outright, premeditated, vile, disgusting murder, regardless of how you feel about it, I would like to say that

• 6:40Speaker 00

  a less than spectacular investigation harms every single person in this country, not just those involved in this case. And I know this is where people are going to say, well, Lindsay said she did it, her attorney said she did it conversation, right? That's going to come into play later. We're going to cover that. But even with that, I firmly believe it would serve absolutely nobody in this world to act like this was a great investigation, act like this was the investigation we would want if God forbid something happened to our loved ones. I mean, maybe others would be content, but I would just not be. But I think this investigation has made it easier for netizens to start wondering and pointing the finger at other parties such as Patrick Clancy. Side note, there were also some claims online that Patrick likely married Rachel so close to the trial date.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  So they get married earlier this year to create some sort of spousal privilege and prevent Rachel from testifying. I will say again, Rachel was never on any sort of witness list for the Commonwealth or the defense, and there is no evidence that the marriage was related to Lindsay's criminal case. Also, marriage does not create a blanket rule that spouses cannot testify against each other. And it's not really applicable in this particular case either, because it would have to be that Patrick or Rachel is the defendant and the Commonwealth is trying to force the spouse to testify against their partner, not two witnesses in a trial, right? So there's no credible evidence that has surfaced again, that Rachel would possess any sort of firsthand knowledge or evidence that would be relevant to this criminal case even to begin with.

• 8:07Speaker 00

  But something interesting does happen in court later where it, it spins off a whole theory. It's the, it's the anniversary date. So if you guys just, just know we're getting there. After Lindsay Clancy's first trial was declared a mistrial, it was announced that Patrick will be doing his very first interview post-mistrial. This is a huge deal for such a big, high-profile case. All we really have from Patrick is his testimony in court, his original GoFundMe statement, some small statements made to media outlets here and there that were more focused on his children's legacy, which I think is good, but you know, and there is this longer New

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Yorker narrative profile that was done in 2024, but other than that, he's rarely done interviews. He's rarely made any statements. But now after all the online allegations, conspiracies, rumors, accusations, he's going to sit down with CBS 60 Minutes, do an interview. And it seems like a lot of people collectively found out that 60 Minutes is not in fact 60 minutes long. I mean, it is, but it also covers three news stories typically, meaning there's only about 20-ish minutes airing per each news story that they cover. And they did release an extended cut later for Patrick Clancy and Rachel Danis's interview. But after this initial announcement, CBS News starts releasing teaser clips of the episode that's to come.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  One shows the interviewer Ross, more on Ross later, sitting with Patrick Clancy on a park bench and Patrick tells him, "I talked to them." What do you say? Help me all the time.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  I think CBS knew exactly what they were doing with that clip because some of the top comments on that teaser alone, and this is the CBS TikTok account. Comments read, "Help me, I'm in Costa Rica. Help me, I'm skiing. Help me, I'm a millionaire." Millionaire referencing to the GoFundMe raised nearly $2 million. And he is also suing the providers for damages in excess of $1 million. Another one reads, "Notice it's not, 'I miss you, I wish I could see you grow up.' Others say he creeps me out and I don't know why." Some say shaking his head no while stating a yes is a big indicator of lying. Some have compared it actually to the A24 teaser of Elizabeth Holmes documentary. Yeah, that's gonna come out. Remember Holmes of Theranos?

• 10:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's like talking to Nathan and she's nodding, shaking her head. They, I guess people are saying they have very similar mannerisms. And we know how Elizabeth Holmes turned out. I guess 54,000 people believe they have the same energy, mannerisms and general vibe because that's how many likes that comment got. Another comment reads, "Never talks about them, always just me, mine and myself." Because I guess they didn't like his "help me" comment. Now, usually with comment sections for this case, depending on which TikToker you're watching, it'll skew one way or the other pretty dramatically, but you'll still see a very good mix of just all-out war in the comment section. This is posted by CBS News. And it feels like you do have to scroll a bit to get to a comment defending Patrick,

• 11:14Speaker 00

  which is pretty rare in this case. You just scroll through pictures of Elizabeth Holmes and Chris Watts to get to some comments defending Patrick, or at least that's from the time that I was scrolling. Then it's released that Rachel will actually be joining Patrick for the interview. And the whole thing got memed to oblivion and back mainly because Patrick is wearing what appears to be the same exact grid pattern dress shirt that he wore with his suit when he testified in the Lindsey Clancy trial. And Rachel is wearing a black dress with a white collar outline that she wore during an interview for work that was posted by her workplace that has since been taken down. But people actually think it looks like the Gone Girl couple.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  When the FMC comes back from being kidnapped and her staged kidnapping and they're doing interviews about how happy and in love they are that she's back.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  What?

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Then one of the more insane teasers they released is of Rachel sitting there saying, they don't give the context of the question, it's just Rachel saying, "I don't know how the story's been so twisted, but I hope people know that Pat is, as I've said before, the most selfless father and supportive partner. And I was just a girl that met a guy running in Central Park on a really cold Saturday, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that." Which has taken on some criticism and has been more or less memed with some quoting a famous Julia Roberts quote from the rom-com Notting Hill where she says, "I'm also just a girl standing in front of a boy asking him to love her."

• 12:48Speaker 00

  Others are pointing out the words Rachel used, how the story has been so twisted. This isn't a love story that's been twisted, this is a story of how three young children were killed. One comment reads, "So it's not a romance story? It's a murder trial, Rachel." Others are saying, "Really cold Saturday? Like you mean before the children died?" One comment reads, "I'm just a girl who met a guy that had a wife that looked exactly like me." Some of the top comments on that teaser dropped by CBS News read, "Okay, Rachel, but which Saturday?" Others read, "I'm too intelligent for this." Others say, "How does she know he's a selfless father if she never saw him fathering?" Others say, "Time of irritation, 9:21 a.m.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  Selfless, he prioritized himself over everyone." Others point out that while Rachel is giving her what has been deemed kind of a strange, "I'm just a girl" monologue, Patrick isn't looking at Rachel, some netizens are pointing out, but he's either looking at the interviewer, Ross, which some people think is very odd. People typically gravitate and look towards the person who is speaking, especially when they are your partner or your spouse, because when you are in unfamiliar settings with, let's say, five people and someone is speaking or there is a silent moment, people typically gravitate towards eye contact with the person they are closest to. So the fact that he is looking at Ross, people think it's to gauge Ross's reaction and see

• 14:15Speaker 00

  if he buys the story. And again, I think body language, mannerisms are really hard to decipher. Others have been bringing up other related quotes with one comment reading, "He was a father to some really great people and they had a lot of friends." So if you read that comment and you're a little bit lost on the context, I'm gonna fill you in because this is kind of a, I don't know how to describe, like there's some contextual things that people get confused by in this case that are not really relevant in the grand scheme of things. But they're almost like part of the meme culture of the case, which is also atrocious to even put those things together in a sentence, but that seems to be what's happening.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  So after Patrick ran the Boston Marathon in his children's honor, this was a while back, he did a quick interview at the finish line where he was asked about his children because he ran it in his children's honor. And he basically just said, "They were great people, they had a lot of friends, they lived a short life, but it was a very good life." And a lot of people found that strange and peculiar considering that Cora was only five, that's the oldest of their children, and to say they were good people, good people, sounds like something that you would say about a distant colleague that you don't really know. Something happens to your colleague and you're like, "That was, she was a good person. Lot of friends, good life, short, cut short, but great life, great person."

• 15:38Speaker 00

  People think that saying a child has a lot of friends as some sort of personality attribute, especially to your own children that are now deceased, doesn't feel honoring. Uh, some people said it felt like he doesn't know his kids. Others felt like, "Give him a break, he just ran a fucking marathon for his children, he just ran like 26 fucking miles, he's probably winded, exhausted, needs some sugar in his system, like what's the big deal?" Others are saying, "Well, to fight that argument, he ran it in his children's honor, so like maybe he could have thought of what to say before he ran the marathon then." Others just say, "Based off of that, that interview, short little snippet of the Boston

• 16:22Speaker 00

  Marathon, it's a really bad decision for them to go on 60 Minutes." I can't say for certain whether or not it was a bad decision on Patrick and Rachel's part, but the comments are intense and there has been questions online of why the hell did they choose 60 Minutes? And why that specific interviewer, Ross? Side note, CBS News has, as a whole, has been under a lot of fire recently because CBS News was actually considered one of the more reputable news networks a while, while, while, while back, a while back. And the center of this whole controversy is a woman named Barry Weiss. I'm sure if you keep up with anything in politics, you fucking know Barry Weiss.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  Barry Weiss is a self-declared Zionist fanatic, that is what she has declared. Also, she states that she's a left-leaning centrist, but most people would argue that she's pretty damn conservative. And ever since her takeover, is how people call it, of CBS News, she's very close with the Ellison's, Larry Ellison, David Ellison, um, after her takeover of CBS News, they're kind of part of that alt-right pipeline now. She's the one that did the very notable, memorable Erica Kirk Town Hall, where Erica Kirk did the very notable, memorable viral stop, right? Directed at conservative political commentator Candace Owens. That was a whole thing, that's Barry Weiss. So there were some initial questions of like, "Why 60 Minutes?"

• 17:47Speaker 00

  And I know when you hear 60 Minutes, we do associate it with some pretty reputable journal, like journalistic integrity, because they did a lot of major interviews with massive politicians, like just huge people, and they usually handle it with a lot of care and attention. So people understood 60 Minutes, but they don't understand it now with the way CBS is right now. But they also wonder, "Why the fuck Ross?" That's not me saying that, a lot of people were just, there's just a lot of conversations. Ross is relatively new to CBS, he was named a correspondent in July of this year, but I will say he is a very, like, his, his credentials, his background, top tier. Like, he was with The Times before, so was Barry Weiss, they were both at The New York

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Times, but anyway. So a few months under his belt, and he's taken on one of the bigger, I don't want to say biggest, but bigger interviews for the network in recent months.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, what's up with that?

• 18:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, no one knows the decision on why. But also, this is where it gets weird. So he previously worked at The New York Times and The Atlantic. He has been described as being a conservative columnist. He has written extensively against abortion. He has written about the decline of religion in American society. To oversimplify it, Ross thinks everyone should be religious. Is that a very accurate statement? I don't fucking know. It's the title of his book, though, Religion, Why Everyone Should Be Religious. I did not, however, read the entirety of the book to verify that is his end thought, but, um...

• 19:20Speaker 01

  That's so interesting.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, why him? Yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Okay, wow, I see. Interesting.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  He is, I believe, Catholic, right? I just assumed...

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Because I did see a clip saying this was his first time doing the 60 Minutes. This was his first interview, right?

• 19:38Speaker 00

  And I agree with a lot of netizen sentiment of, and this is across the board, wherever you stand with this case, I think they should have chosen, I honestly think that they should have chosen a female interviewer, and I think they should have chosen someone who covers extensively perinatal, postpartum health, or women's health in general. Because that is exactly what Patrick said his message is about. That's what his children's legacy is about. So that would be more on par with what Patrick is trying to do and what would actually be ultimately probably beneficial for everyone. Someone who is very well-versed in that, I think, would have created a much better atmosphere where we get more answers to questions.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. And someone that could provide maybe even context. But I'm gonna break down the entire 60 Minutes interview with online speculations and comments for the big key moments from this interview while providing any context if necessary, cross referencing with The New Yorker, cross referencing with Patrick's testimony. And this is not the extent of the cross referencing I'll do because a lot of it I did want to save for when we cover Patrick's testimony because once I bring something in, then I have to bring in 10 other things that happened. So this is just me trying to give you the fullest picture of this 60 Minutes interview and everyone's reaction to it. I obviously cannot tell you what Patrick and Rachel's intentions were of doing this interview, but one could easily imagine that it's because they want to shut

• 21:02Speaker 00

  down all the Patrick did it conspiracies circulating online. And I say Patrick did it in quotes, right? To clarify the details of their relationship, to address some of these defamatory statements. If that's their goal, does the interview accomplish that? I think that's a very interesting thing to think back periodically and interesting to see which points they emphasize and highlight in this 28 minutes. I'm sure the interview lasted longer, but it's just, and I'm not saying that in some sort of conspiratorial way, but I would imagine that Patrick and Rachel came onto 60 Minutes for a purpose, for a goal, to get a message across, deliver information. I don't think they're here to have a chit chat because they love netizens and internet users. I think they probably

• 21:44Speaker 00

  hate every single person on the internet right now. The interview, however, starts with just Patrick and Ross. Ross asks about what kind of Mother Lindsay was, and Patrick says that she was very hands-on and quote, "I think she reached that point that she sort of dreamed of."

• 22:02Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 22:04Speaker 00

  I wanted to include this portion because I think, I was trying to, like, at some point, I'm like, at what point am I doing too much? I don't know. I was re-watching this interview multiple times and I was trying to analyze and get some sort of baseline. And again, I don't like body language and I don't like over-analyzing someone's word choices because I think that can get very dangerous. I will say, across the board, Patrick is very vague in every statement he ever makes. I've yet to see specific information come out of him. So this is-

• 22:33Speaker 01

  That's what I, that's my biggest thing with him is it never, nothing ever felt that deep and personal. It's very hard. And I think that's probably what a lot of people are feeling is like when you look at someone, you just don't feel like they're being genuine. Not saying he's not, it's just like his word choice is never felt like it's, you know, so now I was surprised about his Yelp comments because that felt more personal. That felt like-

• 23:00Speaker 00

  Alleged.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Right, alleged, right. That felt more like a person who's expressing their emotion, like, "Oh my God, that sucks. I hate that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." It felt like a real comment versus a lot of these, just, you never really know, you know?

• 23:14Speaker 00

  What he's, yeah. And I think that's like a big question that people have is, is this the body language and word choice of someone who is being strange? Or is this just the way he communicates and we are taking his form of communication?

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Or it could just be like, he's trying to be careful, right, with his word choice? Because you don't know what one word is gonna turn into something else. So I can see that, right? You want to be very cautious with everything you said now at this point because people already think you quote unquote "did it." So I get it. It's just, like, again, with this interview, I thought we're gonna see a different side or a deeper side of him.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  But I didn't see it, I guess.

• 23:59Speaker 00

  So she reached that point that she dreamed of. And people were just so confused what that means, like what any of this means. So that's just expression of confusion, not anything weird.

• 24:15Speaker 00

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• 27:27Speaker 00

  But October of 2022 is when Patrick notices something is wrong. He says Lindsay goes a few nights without sleeping, and Ross, the interviewer, asks him, "What did she tell you that she was experiencing then?" She came downstairs one morning and she said, "I didn't sleep at all last night." And so I said, "You know, that's awful. I'll take the kids to school. You just focus on getting caught up on sleep." Then Patrick says she goes another night without sleep. She tries to take meds, but it's a bit of a spiral for the next month and a half. Ross asks, "Did you know about postpartum mental illness before this experience started?" "No. I could piece together what it was like to be really, really anxious or depressed, but I didn't know how to manage a postpartum illness."

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Which some netizens think is a bit odd, that his mom and his wife at the time, Lindsay, were labor and delivery nurses. But also more importantly, some people have pointed out that Lindsay gave birth to three children and you don't know at all really about postpartum mental illnesses. Now, side note, I guess the sentiment being is, this is still your loved one. And I can see where netizens are coming from. I will say that I have no children. My sister has two children, and I'm pretty sure my entire family, including even my husband, know about postpartum mental illness, not because my sister was diagnosed with one, but because childbirth is a pretty big event in someone's life and you just want to know what's gonna happen to them, what could happen to them, what could go wrong. However, the last sentence, "But I didn't know how to manage postpartum illness," that

• 28:55Speaker 00

  I do think is a sentiment that anyone can easily sympathize with because it is very difficult to detect and understand. But I think, I think some netizens didn't like the fact that he didn't know anything about it when his wife had given birth three times. And their nurses. But again, this could just be everyone's personal, where they draw boundaries and lines with their partners, that could also play into it. Another thing that's relevant, though, is during the trial while Patrick was testifying, he was asked in court, "Had Lindsay ever mentioned psychosis to you before?" "No, I didn't know what psychosis was until after this happened." This, again, the wording of it has been picked apart. It makes it seem like Patrick did not know about what psychosis was until after the children

• 29:39Speaker 00

  were killed. However, he could mean he did not know until Lindsay was struggling. I mean, it's really hard to say which variation is true. If the former is true, however, some netizens are very confused, wondering, okay, well, in December of 2022, you also stated during the trial that your wife told you that she had thoughts of harming the children. You know that she did give birth. Your mom is a labor and delivery nurse. You don't do some light researching. You don't Google something. You don't try to dig on Reddit or the internet. And, you know, people think that they have found his old Reddit account and there are lots of, there's a lot of activity on there. We're gonna cover that soon in the next one. But there's a lot of activity. So they're like, you don't ask someone on Reddit? You don't look it up on Reddit? Not even as a safety precaution? But also, don't

• 30:23Speaker 00

  you want to know what's going on with your wife? That's just been something people have been pointing out. And again, we don't know if it means he didn't know when Lindsay was struggling, or if he meant after the children were killed. Regardless, one comment reads, "How is Patrick's mother a labor and delivery nurse and he did not know about postpartum psychosis? He claimed on the stand that he had never heard of it until this happened." But others argue, "The stuff blaming him for not being more involved is pure victim blaming, a lot of which is just based on complete, baseless, made up things." But back to the 60 Minutes interview, Patrick does make a valid point that, quote, "Mental illness has the ability to be tragically deceptive." He says, "So I'm sure there are things that I didn't see."

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Patrick says, "The low point for Lindsay was in December," and he says, "A huge part of that was, quote, 'huge lack of sleep, deep, deep depression, intrusive thoughts.'" There is not much discussion in the interview about January 24th, which does make a lot of sense. However, Callan had a heartbeat, January 24th. He was taken airlifted to Boston Children's Hospital and he was, he was alive for the next four days. Patrick discusses that whole incident by saying, "So I didn't have all the details of Callan's condition. I just knew that they got a heartbeat back. So I remember that night, I really thought that there was a chance that Callan would live.

• 31:46Speaker 00

  And I just remember thinking, just give me one, just give me one kid. And I would raise him as best I could and I would give him the best life I possibly could. And I would tell him about his brother and sister and I was holding out hope for that. And then when I got to the hospital, I saw the doctor, I saw the look on her face and I knew that it, it wasn't going to be a good prognosis." Many netizens have taken issue with this statement, wondering, "How do you not know everything about Callan's condition?" And while I do agree with that sentiment, judging by the entire statement, I do think it could mean that Patrick is saying that he didn't know all the details on the way to the hospital. That's what it seems like with the full context. He's like, "Well, I didn't know. And then when I got to the hospital, I saw the doctor."

• 32:31Speaker 00

  So it seems like he didn't know on the way. So he's like, "I thought he was gonna be, you know, I thought he was gonna make it." I get there, I see the doctor's face, not a good prognosis, I could just tell. So I think with the full context, I don't think that's what he means. However, there is another incident that people have been pointing to during the trial where he's talking about Dawson's birth. The second child, right? He's talking about Dawson's birth and he's talking about how Lindsay had it, it was just physically really tough. The baby, which is, was breaching, in a breached position. And again, I don't have any children. I did some Googling and it seems when their head is not down. So they're in the wrong position, very dangerous for the mother, very dangerous for the baby.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  Actually, I mean, I was briefly on Reddit looking into it and people said it was like the most traumatizing thing ever. It was really terrifying. In that testimony, Patrick is like, "I don't really know what happened. I just, I think the baby was like breaching or something."

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Interesting, yeah.

• 33:32Speaker 00

  So again, we don't know if this is him, maybe the trauma has him blocking out a lot of his life, or it... People just thought it was weird and they bring it up in conjunction with this statement in the 60 Minutes interview of like, "Does this guy know anything?" is usually the netizen sentiment. Not the netizen sentiment, but a portion. But others have nitpicked other parts of that statement, especially the phrasing of "just one." "Just give me one kid, just give me one, just give me one kid." Even critiquing that he's saying he would give him the best life he could and tell him about his brother and sister. I guess a lot of netizens thought it sounded cold, but also the bare minimum. Like, it was very vague. They thought it was like, well,

• 34:14Speaker 00

  "Before this happened, wouldn't you be trying to give the kids their best life you could possibly could, regardless?" I guess some netizens were pointing out, they wish that he would have said something more along the lines of like, "I would have made up in love to cover both parents and like, I would have done A, B, C, and D, that would be more fitting to the situation instead of a very generic parenting, like, I want to give them the best life I possibly can." But that's just online sentiments. Callan's heart continued to beat for four days before January 28th. The morning of January 28th, Callan was pronounced dead. Patrick says, "I'm so grateful for those four days I had with him and I'm so grateful he hung on." Ross asks, "Did you talk to him in those four days?" "Yeah."

• 35:00Speaker 00

  "Can you tell me anything you said?" Patrick's eyes do get really red and he starts breathing heavy. "I said, 'I'm so sorry, I got to hold him, I got to lay down next to him and he died in my arms.'" Ross then tells the viewers in a voiceover, "During those hours with Callan, Clancy sat and wrote tributes to each of his three children, typing with one hand while he held his baby's hand with the other. He said he was afraid if he didn't write about them, they would be forgotten." I did agree with many netizens that, "I thought this was an interesting point in the interview that was being made. I felt like it was going out of its way in the interview to make this point."

• 35:41Speaker 00

  I felt the answer where Patrick said Callan had died in his arms was emotionally evocative, like it was, it was powerful. He seemed very emotional and maybe they were using this as some sort of segue point, a transition into the next topic and next question, but it didn't really give that feeling off either. So why give this very convoluted voiceover, cut in the interview as a backstory of writing tributes to his children in the hospital, especially when this statement itself has been picked apart online? Because people are like, "I'm sorry, if my child was alive, I'm not doing anything on my phone. I'm not one hand on my phone, one hand on my child." Now again, other netizens disagree with that sentiment.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  But another big point that some netizens have been making is, "It feels strange because these are your kids. Why would you need to write down everything about them because it feels like you're gonna forget?"

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Wait, okay, what was the statement? He was holding, one hand holding the child, the other hand writing something on his phone?

• 36:37Speaker 00

  Yes, typing with one hand while he held his baby's hand with the other. He said he was afraid if he didn't write about them, they would be forgotten.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  He was alive, right, at that point?

• 36:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  But not doing well?

• 36:50Speaker 00

  Um, basically brain dead, yeah. But I think he, some parents are like, "I would never forget a single detail about my children, even decades later." Some say, "Well, it's a little different," some netizens argue, "because you have three children that were taken away." Maybe there's some sort of trauma and anxiety of like, you just want to hold on to something. But again, other netizens fight back, "Well then, hold on to your baby, why are you typing?" And it's just a huge back and forth. And again, just because somebody behaves in a way that you would not see yourself behaving does not mean that they're suspicious or guilty of any sort of criminal acts.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  It's just a conversation of people debating, "Is this normal behavior?" But really, what's normal? The only thing that I think I agree with is, it was a weird transition point. It felt like, "Why is this interview pointing this out to us? It must be important." And it might be because it was a topic of conversation online. Because just four days after the incident, the day Callan is declared deceased, that same day, it is believed that the Clancy GoFundMe was set up. Side note, if I'm not mistaken, I believe they got $2 million, close to $2 million in donations in a fairly short amount of time. And Patrick gave his very first real official lengthy statement about what has transpired four days after the incident, the same day that Callan passed.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  So this is the GoFundMe statement and this has been dissected to hell and back. This is obviously a condensed version, but I'm keeping in all the important parts that have been discussed. In the beginning, Patrick takes time to thank everyone for their love, support, messages, generosity. He says, "A lot of people have said they can't imagine and they're right. There's absolutely nothing that can prepare you." He says that he barely gets much sleep and when he does, he dreams about his kids on repeat. Some people thought that was also strange of a statement to make. Um, I think, I don't think the debate is about the facts itself. I guess some people are saying, "It's only been four days since the incident." No one, is anyone really sleeping, I guess. But I, I don't know if I, if that's something to nitpick.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  But continuing on, the GoFundMe statement reads, "My family was the best thing that has ever happened to me. I took so much pride in being Lindsay's husband and a dad to Cora, Dawson, and Callan." He describes each of the children and he says, "Cora had an infectious laugh and was stunningly beautiful. She was the cautious one, but it was really because she was so caring. She used to say she wanted to be a doctor and a mama when she grew up and she would practice by giving Callan checkups. She loved sloths, unicorns, tea parties, going to lunch with Nana and grandpa and giving presents to people. She knew everything about princesses. She truly loved her brothers and us and said it often in her sweet voice. We did a lot of father-daughter activities together, like skiing and visiting San Francisco or just talking.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  I loved her, my firstborn, so much." Dawson had beautiful, bold, brown eyes that beamed with friendship. He was naturally humorous and generous beyond the norm of a typical toddler, always willing to share his toys with others. He was adventurous and mischievous and enjoyed causing trouble, which he typically found hilarious. He was also remarkably smart. We always said, "If we didn't save enough for retirement, it'll be okay. We'll just live in Dawson's guesthouse." We had a special bond from day one. He was my buddy, my first boy, and truly a gift." He continues about Callan, their youngest, and he does state this in the interview, "He had to grieve Callan differently because Callan was only eight months old when he passed." So I think he was saying like, he didn't really get to know, he didn't have the opportunity to get to know Callan.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  He says, "Callan was our easygoing child. He was just incredibly happy and vibrant, constantly smiling. Our nickname for him was Happy Callan. If I was ever having a bad day, Callan always knew how to heal me. Perhaps that's why he held on a little longer, to spare me whatever pain he could. As excruciating as it was, I was fortunate and grateful to feel his warmth until his very last moment. Faith is my only hope of believing he felt mine. Callan died with enormous courage despite being so little. Maybe it was his way of demonstrating what I need to do to press forward. I'll always try to draw inspiration from him. He'll always be my little hero."

• 41:20Speaker 00

  He then goes to talk about Lindsay stating that she is not who is being portrayed in the media right now, a child killer killer mom. He says, "Our marriage was wonderful and diametrically grew stronger as her condition rapidly worsened." Which some netizens saw was weird. One netizen comment is, "Their marriage was stronger, but according to her journals, they had not been intimate in months. They canceled their anniversary plans in December." I don't know. More on the anniversary plans later because there's a rumor, maybe conspiracy, that maybe he had gone on an anniversary trip with Rachel. Again, there's no confirmation of it, but some people have been picking apart the exact wording of the trial, but more on that later. Now, side note, there were some references

• 42:03Speaker 00

  in Lindsay's journals that she and Patrick were no longer having intimate relations. However, there was no indication in any of the journals that they were having a rocky marriage. In fact, she did write at some point that she was grateful for Pat for picking up slack when she was feeling tired. She was on Goodreads, though. We did find her Goodreads account, and she shelved the book, Love Worth Making: How to Have Ridiculously Great Sex in a Long-Lasting Relationship, before Callan was born. That she shelved it as, "Books I'm Currently Reading." I will say, again, there's no clear indication that their marriage wasn't great, or super shaky, or on the rocks, but it also didn't appear like their marriage was better than ever. Although there's no confirmation of that either, it just didn't seem, and I imagine it's very hard to be

• 42:48Speaker 00

  better than ever when someone is potentially going through an incredibly tough mental health crisis. He says, "I still remember the very moment I first laid eyes on her, and I can recall how overcome I was with the kind of love at first sight you only see in movies. It really didn't take long before I was certain I wanted to marry her. We said 'I love you' to each other multiple times daily, as if it were a reflex. We habitually started every morning with a passionate hug, yielding a sigh of relief like we had each received the perfect medicine. If too much time passed without a hug, she'd look at me and ask, 'Did you forget?'" We mutually understood

• 43:30Speaker 00

  the reality that people can have bad days, but we stuck to the rule that when one of us got lost, the other one was always there to bring them home, always. Now, there's a lot of mixed netizen sentiment with this statement. One of the bigger reactions that I've seen online was, "This sounds like Lindsay is dead." This whole tidbit about Lindsay doesn't sound like she's still alive. It sounds like she's dead. She's gone. Now, I don't know, maybe he was preparing for the worst, just in case, because maybe something similar had happened with Callan, where he thought that Callan was gonna live, but then he passed away. So I don't really know.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Oh, Lindsay's like, just in the hospital at the moment?

• 44:08Speaker 00

  Yes. Now, this, another netizen sentiment, though, is that this sounds like, whether you agree or not, this sounds like a husband who regrets everything that's happened and is gonna stand by his wife. Because that has happened before. There was another big case, postpartum psychosis, where the husband stood by his wife throughout the trial, everything. Like, they, they were still together at the end of it, okay? This kind of sounds like that's what's gonna happen, right? He had not talked to Lindsay at this point. He did not, for all I know, did not check in on her, did not go to see her. So this, I guess some netizens are saying, like, it just is weird.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Wait, so Lindsay's in the hospital, and he could just go check on her?

• 44:53Speaker 00

  I mean, he is her spouse, yeah. He actually has the medical authority over all the medical decisions.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  And how do we know he never checked upon her?

• 45:02Speaker 00

  Because everything that he says indicates that he didn't talk to her until like a week after. And there's nothing to indicate that he ever visited her in the hospital. It seems most likely that the first time they saw each other was at the trial.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  At the trial?

• 45:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Like, he didn't see her after that incident until the trial that happened?

• 45:22Speaker 00

  Yes, because every time he describes talking to Lindsay, it is just a series of a few phone calls. So I think people were just kind of confused of, this is not, regardless of if you agree with his choice of forgiving Lindsay or not.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  So his GoFundMe focuses on that he forgives her, but he hasn't basically, behind the scenes, spoken to her or supported her?

• 45:47Speaker 00

  Yes. So, again, I think if the GoFundMe statement had perhaps just said, like, "I forgive Lindsay, this is about postpartum, this is kind of what happened, and I hope you guys can forgive her, too," I think there would be less netizen discourse about it. But the way he writes about Lindsay, the first time falling in love with her, seeing her, the way they hug every morning and say, "I love you," it just, it felt like the words of a husband who is gonna stand by his wife emotionally and be there for her, and yet, behind the scenes, it did not appear that was the case. Now, a lot of netizens also push back on that, saying, "This man just lost his three children. God forbid, he needs time before reaching out to the woman that fucking killed

• 46:30Speaker 00

  them." So there's, it's just hard, it's hard to even argue, because every perspective, it's like, "I guess I could see that, I guess I could see that, I guess I could see that." But he says, "I want to ask all of you, that you find it deep within yourselves to forgive Lindsay as I have. The real Lindsay was generously loving and caring towards everyone, me, our kids, friends, family, her patients. The very fibers of her soul were loving. All I wish for her now is that she can somehow find peace." So that's what I'm saying. I think if it was just this portion, netizens would have less to discuss. It's like, hey, I forgave her, please forgive her. Like, this is not who she is, this is postpartum. But other netizens also find it very bizarre that he was able to publicly forgive Lindsay without ever talking to Lindsay

• 47:15Speaker 00

  before releasing this statement. I guess their argument being is, sure, it's one thing to assume you know what happened, but wouldn't you want to have a conversation with that person, your wife, the mother of your children, that allegedly killed the three children, before you publicly forgive them? They do eventually talk. More on the series of phone calls later, but this was released before he spoke to Lindsay. Near the end of the GoFundMe statement, he writes, "I promise I'll put all my energy into healing and rediscovering my purpose. I owe that to all of you. Duxbury Fire and Police, our compassionate healthcare workers, our local faith leaders, the Microsoft community, and especially Cora, Dawson, and Callan. I don't

• 47:56Speaker 00

  know how or when I'll be able to do it, but your love and generosity will help me get started. I know that love always wins." Some people thought that was also strange. The inclusion of the Microsoft community, people thought, was very odd, but don't worry, there's a whole Microsoft part later, because there's a lot of Microsoft talk. But people just thought it was strange. One person comments, "He published this hours after Callan's death, ready to go find his new purpose in life. He spends an incredible amount of time on image management, describes people in terms of what he received from them, and turns Callan's suffering into something about alleviating his own pain." One person writes, and this is from three years ago, "If anyone knew anything about psychology

• 48:38Speaker 00

  and losing your children, you would know that Patrick Clancy should be in jail," which is a strongly worded comment. Another comment reads, "This man was not devoted or shocked, and the first thing he told the public is he promised to go find his purpose in life. He is all about him. His image, perfect letter, ready to find purpose, forgive my wife. Dude might as well have said, 'I'm finally free and gonna get to move on.'" When you lose three kids, you are in shock. You can't write a letter that night, and the last thing you can think about is you. Your mind has to take weeks, not a night, not a night. It takes months to comprehend your three children are dead. They continue, "He would naturally be in shock, rage, grief,

• 49:18Speaker 00

  disbelief, and unable to understand, never mind promise he was now going to find his purpose in life." But again, these are just opinions that netizens are having with Patrick's statements. There's nothing inherently bad, or wrong, or weird about his statements. I think it's just people analyzing the behavior. The 60 Minutes interview touches on Patrick's forgiveness of Lindsay in the GoFundMe statement. So this is where I'm saying, like, maybe they're trying to use it as a transition, but they never address GoFundMe. So I thought it was strange. I thought they could have just said, "Hey, within four days of the incident, you forgive your wife, Lindsay Clancy." But instead, they included the part where he's like, right, typing in one hand on the hospital. So I thought it was weird, like, why? I just couldn't wrap my mind around,

• 50:00Speaker 00

  why would they go out of their way to do this full voiceover and include this so early on in the interview? I just, it's interesting. Because especially when you make these editorial cuts, every beat is pretty intentional for a piece like this. Nevertheless, when asked about his forgiveness of Lindsay, Patrick says he believes it was Lindsay's mental illness that caused it. He says, "And I think when it comes to forgiveness, I also felt that if I didn't get there, I would be eaten up inside forever," which a lot of netizens actually agree with. But others argue, "But yeah, but you could have waited a few more days before you talked to her, before you publicly forgave her." Others were saying, like, "Within four days, you're not thinking about forgiveness eating you up alive. You're not thinking at all, really."

• 50:43Speaker 00

  There are the series of phone calls between Patrick and Lindsay, which, again, we'll get into later, but that first one took place a week after the incident. So this GoFundMe statement is four days after the incident. Ross asks Patrick, "Did you ask Lindsay why she did it?" Um, I asked her if she remembered it, which some netizens thought was very strange as well, because why would he assume she has no memories of the incident? One netizen comments, "Why would he ask if she remembered it and not why she did it? In all honesty, something doesn't add up." They say, "Do you remember it? No? Good, so this is what happened." Ross continues to ask, "And what did she say?" She said, "It was like a dream, and she remembered

• 51:27Speaker 00

  it much in the way that you would remember a dream after waking up." Patrick has asked, "Do you feel like you failed in some way in this period? Or do you feel like you did the best you could?" Patrick responds, "I think I did the best I could with what I had at the time. And I live with the outcome. I live with it every day. But I think I did the best I could." This is probably by far one of the more controversial responses from the interview with people just not being able to comprehend how it's feasible that he doesn't feel some sort of survivor's guilt, parental guilt. And while some netizens may agree that he did the best he could with what he had, other netizens argue, "That's just not how drama works.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  Just because you may logically know something to be true does not negate any guilt or rumination that you have, repeating the events over and over, wondering if something could be different, if like, maybe you just didn't do something." Others point out, Patrick said he told Callan he's sorry when he was in the hospital. So like, what is he sorry about if he did the best he could? But then technically, others argue, "Well, he could be both." But I think overall, people were just really thrown off by that statement. However, a few things to note, some people have stated, "This sounds exactly like therapy speak. This sounds like someone who has spoken to therapists over an extended period of time, and this is exactly what a therapist would tell you, that you did the best you could with what you had."

• 52:54Speaker 00

  However, others argue back that, "Yeah, therapy or not, you could be in therapy for 24 fucking hours of the day, every single day, for the past three years since the incident, but every single parent would not, no one would be able to sit there and say, 'Yeah, I did pretty much everything I could.'" Now, the second thing to note is that there is a big civil lawsuit pending. Patrick Clancy is suing Lindsay's providers. We have no clue what could happen, but he is seeking damages in excess of a million dollars. Some speculate that he can't admit to any wrongdoing because that could be used against him in the civil suit. For the providers to argue, "See, it's not just us. You also left her home alone." However, I don't think that would even work, considering none of the providers told him not to leave the children alone in her care.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  So he could have just said something as simple as, "I wish I didn't go to CVS. I wish I took the kids." I think he could have even said something along the lines of, "I wish I knew more about postpartum." Because they are arguing that this was postpartum psychosis and mental health that went undiagnosed and untreated by the providers. So he could have just said, "I wish I had gotten more involved with her medical care. I just trusted the doctors. I trusted that they knew what they were doing to help my wife." If his response was catered to not saying anything that could be bad for the civil lawsuit, there would have been a plethora of other responses that he could have said. But he didn't, so I think netizens have very mixed, strong feelings about that statement.

• 54:19Speaker 00

  They also have very strong mixed feelings about Patrick and Lindsay's separate civil lawsuits against the providers. Some even argue, one comment reads, "Hey, he could have literally just said something so vague and simple, just, 'I wish I had done more,' and everyone would have understood." One person writes, "If a piano fell out of the sky, landed on my kid, I would still be rethinking, 'Maybe I should have taken a different route. Maybe it was my fault. Maybe I did this.'" That is a normal response. Another netizen comments, "Narcissists never take accountability." But again, this is a very strongly worded opinion. There is no evidence that he is a diagnosed narcissist, right? Then another controversial moment is Ross asks Patrick, "Has she ever asked for your

• 55:04Speaker 00

  forgiveness?" Patrick says, "Um..." And he does like a very strong facial expression where he frowns downwards, like a closed lip. "Um, no, but I gave it her." And many netizens think that Patrick is trying very hard to hide a smirk here, that his facial movements are incredibly odd when he said, "No, but I gave it her." People say that there is a little smirk, people are zooming in, slowing it down, they're looking at the angle of his lips tilting upwards. And again, I do believe that there is credible knowledge and research that comes out of facial expressions and how they can tell if someone is being deceptive or untruthful

• 55:48Speaker 00

  or strange about their responses. I am just not qualified in that, so I can't really tell you. But I guess people are saying it was weird. One comment reads, "Yeah, this is his way of saying, 'I let her live.'" Another one reads, "She hasn't asked because she didn't do it." Others fight back saying, "See, everyone blames him and he's still protecting his wife." Another says, "I mean, damn, bro, he even forgave her and motherfuckers still say he's guilty." Others comment, "Forgiveness is powerful. Good on Patrick." He says, "There was a time where I didn't think I would live to see my 35th birthday, and I was completely fine with it." Patrick talks about his April 2023 move to New York City.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  He says, "About five weeks after the move, he had to figure out how to celebrate Callan's first birthday without Callan." He says, "How do you celebrate your son's first birthday months after he's passed away? And so I go to St. Patrick's Cathedral. I light a candle and I say, 'I love you, buddy,' and I walk out on Fifth Avenue and I start crying my eyes out. And nobody cared." Ross says, "And was that good? Were you grateful for that? I thought, 'This is where I need to be. I can grieve.'" Some netizens have pointed out that everything is very self-centered around him and his emotions rather than the children, but others argue, "Yeah, because that's his experience. He's sharing of how he had to get through that day. Of course, it's going to be from his perspective."

• 57:15Speaker 00

  Patrick says he kept some of the kids' toys, a lot of personal items, things that reminded him of them. In the interview, they show a quick frame of Patrick's New York City apartment, and he has pictures hung up of all three children. They show Dawson's helicopter that he loved, which, side note, the New Yorker piece from 2024, the interview was a bit more extensive, and it reads, quote, "By this point, Patrick is relatively settled down in New York City in what is described as a bachelor pad." So this is before him and Rachel lived together. And the piece states that the extent of the decor in his living room is mainly just a sailing trophy and an acoustic guitar that's mounted onto the wall. But he does have keepsakes of his children. A pink blanket printed with rainbows.

• 57:57Speaker 00

  Throw pillows that have been stitched with the scraps of his children's clothing. So that was like a big thing back in the day, you know? A toy helicopter, Dawson's last Christmas gift. And they make it an emphasis point in the New Yorker stating that the next time the author went over to Patrick's house, the blanket and throw pillows were gone. And he's like trying to explain, or he's trying to ask, and Patrick very sheepishly explained that he had someone over for dinner or had some people over for dinner, and he just would have been gutted if they got spaghetti sauce on them. So he put them away. Right? So I just thought that would have been a really good thing to show. That was not shown in the 60 Minutes.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  I would imagine that that would be a strong visually evocative piece, but not really important in the grand scheme of things.

• 58:51Speaker 00

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• 1:03:17Speaker 00

  Patrick says about his children, I always say they live within me. I talk to them. What do you say? Help me all the time. Do they help you? I like to believe they do. It's a way I stay connected to them. I will say the full clip of this conversation does show more emotion in Patrick. The teaser edit clip was kind of wild in comparison. It seems like he's trying to suppress emotions that he's feeling as he's responding. Netizens have, as you guessed it, mixed responses to this statement. Some say, why is everything about you, Patrick? Like, why would you say that to your child? A lot of parents are saying, I would never say that. I would say, I love you. I miss you. I wish you were here. It should have been me instead. Like,

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  all these other things not help me? It doesn't naturally come from a parent to a child to say, help me. However, others point out that he comes from a Catholic background, probably believes in the afterlife, and maybe he feels like he is in so much pain, he's trying to draw strength from his kids to keep going. It just didn't come off great, I will say, just from like a, not that I'm in PR, but a lot of people have said, have been saying, just from a PR perspective, it's not the best response. Ross asks, do you dream about them? Yeah, all the time. I remember early on having a dream, maybe six months or a year after, I'm in the kitchen at the house and Cora walks in and I just look at her and basically just said, where have you been?

• 1:04:43Speaker 00

  He says Cora would give him a hug in his dreams and those dreams felt so real. He says, it's like I'm lucid in those dreams. Patrick shares stories of the children, which obviously is incredibly touching, showcasing each of their personalities. He gets emotional recalling how Dawson would count from one to 20 in the car. He's only a year and a half old at this point. Patrick says, so I was pretty impressed. And then all of a sudden, he starts counting from one to 10 in Spanish, and he just constantly blew my mind. Some netizens thought that this was really emotionally touching, and it was probably the very first time he gave these more real,

• 1:05:23Speaker 00

  tangible stories about his kids that people could envision in their minds. However, other netizens have been commenting, that seems like Patrick is not in his kids' lives, because when you have to teach your kid how to count from one to 20, it's a very lengthy process that doesn't happen with one session. Everyone's like, I wonder who taught him how to count one through 20 in English and then one through 10 in Spanish. Because he kind of phrases it in a way of like, I was just blown away in the car. Yeah. But again, what does that mean? And then Patrick does say something that is, I will say, admittedly is confusing. He says, he was really into trucks,

• 1:06:03Speaker 00

  really into working class people. And he was my buddy. I was very confused in that moment. Most reactions to this part are also confused. One person comments, when I was a newborn, I was really into corporate tax accounting, so I totally get it. Another writes, am I fucking high watching this right now? Another says, every time he opens his mouth, I think it's impossible to get worse, and then it gets worse. Another says, my toddler had a knack of identifying the socioeconomic class of others as well. What an odd thing to say. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that about their kid. These are comments. Someone else says, oh, look, son, there's a working class person. Let's go in, look at them. Another person says, this is a

• 1:06:45Speaker 00

  sign that Patrick thinks he's superior to other people. But another says, what, like, he's a upper echelon elitist snob? Not. People have just been kind of memeing it. Another reads, yeah, my daughter's super into Barbies and women's suffrage. Another says, when I was in my mom's uterus, I was super into Russian oligarchs. Now, a smaller group of netizens have argued that everyone knows what Patrick meant. Okay, like they, he likes to go to Home Depot, he likes trucks and fire trucks and all these things. Someone was like, he could have just said blue collar jobs. That would have still been kind of odd. And I will say, like, going to get your toolkit at Home Depot and kids, especially little boys liking fire trucks

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  and construction trucks, these are pretty normal things. So I don't think that he really needed to explain it further by saying, oh, he was just like really into working class people. But nevertheless, this is more so a communication thing. It's just been memed.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's weird.

• 1:07:43Speaker 00

  Patrick also states in the interview, Dawson helped me realize that not all your kids are the same. Some netizens think that statement is also odd, because you thought your kids were all going to be the same. However, some parents argue, that's a thing. That's not necessarily, oh, I thought they would be carbon copies of each other with no distinct personalities. It's just showing how different your kids can be, is probably what he meant to say. Patrick says, he thinks about his kids every day, all day, every day. He says, he's had people say to him that he's really quiet today, and they don't know the things that are playing over and over and over again in his head. He says, quote, they don't know that the scenes that are playing over and over again from that night. Some netizens thought that wording was odd. I guess when you

• 1:08:26Speaker 00

  hear people normally describe having PTSD flashbacks, if you will, it's a very visceral experience. The descriptive language that they usually use is, I'll be doing something, and then all I can see is that night. All I can see is when I found them. All I can see is screaming. All I can smell is this, and I can't get it to stop. I can't do anything else that day. But I think some netizens thought it was weird that Patrick naturally framed it as, people ask him why he's so quiet. And this is why he's so quiet, and they don't know this. To which other netizens think that Patrick will never win, because people are insane and nitpicking on the internet for no reason, and expect trauma to look identical for everyone. Another quick

• 1:09:09Speaker 00

  little disclaimer here is that I think people are forgetting that there is a spectrum to this case as well, in the sense of, you can be a little weirded out by some of the things that are said in interviews, and not believe that someone is guilty of murder. Does that make sense? Like, I think just because you're like, oh, that's like a very weird thing to say, doesn't mean you think that Patrick did it. There is a spectrum here, but I think when people lose that, it gets very weird in the comment section. I do think the framing of that was, it could have been done better. And I think Rachel and Patrick knew this 60 Minutes episode, I would imagine they knew, was going to be explosive. I just don't know why there was not more care put into

• 1:09:54Speaker 00

  the words that they were going to use. And at one point, Rachel looks like he's, she's trying so hard to use the correct words and not say the wrong thing. But why are there so many weird things that netizens can't stop looking at? Some netizens think it's odd that Patrick and the interviewer keep calling it scenes rather than memories, but Ross asked Patrick if good scenes plan is head to. Patrick says one of them is, when I did a lot of travel, I miss traveling with Cora. That was a great trip, you know, going to SF or San Francisco, just the two of us, didn't have to bring a lot of stuff. She just had a backpack. It was her first time on a plane where she could actually appreciate it. So I miss those times. He says if he's working

• 1:10:35Speaker 00

  on a project, he misses having Dawson by his side. Dawson would grab his tool belt and they'd be hanging out. He said he misses putting Callan on his knees and sitting in the playpen with him. Patrick says he loves the memories. He avoids the bad memories. It's traumatic and it can be overwhelming, but he hangs on to the good memories. Patrick says, something that helped him in his healing was EMDR, but he's not really sure what it stands for. It stands for eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. He says, it was something to do with rapid eye movement. It's a little unusual. They put you right back in that place that you've been trying to avoid for years. And you face it head on, and it's unpleasant, but they get you used to dealing with that. And

• 1:11:15Speaker 00

  eventually, you're better at processing it. I was really hung up on his answer for this one, because I think this was confirming to some degree that he is definitely not a good communicator, at least in my opinion. I think that much is true. I don't know what else is true. But he went through EMDR. It's a very intense experience, and the way he describes it is yet still so vague. So I think he just employs a lot of vague language. I think he maybe has a hard time describing his own experiences, perhaps. And that's why everything feels kind of weird and vague and distant, maybe? Because this is an easy way to describe, like, I'm laying in a chair. I'm doing this. And then this happens, right? And, oh, I felt this when it was happening.

• 1:12:00Speaker 00

  But then now I feel like this, right? But instead, it was, they get you used to dealing with it. It's unpleasant, and eventually, you're better at processing it.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  I'm still very confused.

• 1:12:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, we don't know what happened. Yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, what is that? Yeah.

• 1:12:13Speaker 00

  Then he says something the internet is genuinely confused by as well. He says, they've used it in survivors of 9/11 and October 7, and some horrible events. And after I did all that, after all those sessions, waking up screaming, the horrible dreams, they mostly stopped. It was like a miracle. 9/11 makes sense, we're Americans, right? But people thought the insertion of October 7 on CBS, basically run by Barry Weiss, felt Very random, very forced. He's not Jewish, he's Catholic, or his family is Catholic. So it was kind of random. So one comment reads, mentioning October 7th is so specific. Another comment reads like, what is happening right now? Like, it's just very odd.

• 1:12:58Speaker 00

  Side note, CBS includes clips of TikTokers who are saying Patrick did it and giving their theories. So they're doing like the whole, look at the internet, right? And a lot of people point out that there have been a lot of outspoken male voices on TikTok, also veering on the side of Patrick did it, that were highly suspicious of Patrick from the beginning that the trial transpired and none of them are shown. I can think of at least two male TikTokers that I kept seeing in the research of trying to get comments for this case. None of them are shown, neither of them are shown. It's all women being shown. But Ross asks Patrick, how do you respond to people who have that idea about you?

• 1:13:41Speaker 00

  This, I thought was a big moment in the interview because this seems to be the reason they're doing the interview. The internet is saying you did it. What's your response? This is your moment. Like, this is the only reason I thought they were doing the interview, is to get rid of these rumors by clarifying things. You don't have to go and say, oh, the Costa Rica thing, let me tell you about the dates. But just some sort of wording that would click for people. Patrick says, it's deeply harmful to the legacy of my children. It's a huge distraction from what really matters here, which is perinatal mental health. And it's done real harm to real people, myself included, but also to others.

• 1:14:21Speaker 00

  I think a lot of netizens, I tend to agree with that sentiment, wanted a bit more of a sincere feeling moment, where he could just say like, I would never, ever harm my kids. I would never hurt a hair on my children. They were the best part of my entire life. I would do anything to bring them back. I would never harm my kids. I wish I could wake up January 23rd and do everything differently. Netizens feel like his words feel really cold and distant. But again, some argue, when you're being attacked like that, you're not trying to be vulnerable. You're just defensive, you're upset, you're traumatized, and then others are arguing back, then don't do the interview. So I guess it's just a lot of back and forth.

• 1:15:03Speaker 00

  And technically, he really doesn't owe the internet, who has been tearing him apart. He doesn't owe anyone vulnerability. But they get into why some of these theories kicked off, if you will, and it has to do with Patrick being very stoic on the witness stand. Patrick says testifying is really difficult. He says that he had a panic attack right before they played the 911 call, which has been sealed. And that's a whole thing we're gonna get into. We can't hear the 911 call. He says, his heart was pounding, they put him in an ambulance and they offered him meds, but he refused. He just wanted to power through it. Patrick says he reached out to experts in the field of perinatal health and he asked them, what do you think happened? And that's resulted in very deep conversations, which has helped him come to terms with what's happened.

• 1:15:48Speaker 00

  And I think, again, this could just be, maybe Patrick is not a spectacular communicator and he does employ a lot of vague language, but he keeps bringing up his children's legacy and tying it to perinatal health. But there's nothing that is a message, a central message of like, this is what needs to be fixed about perinatal health. This is what I'm working towards, or this is what people don't understand, other than his one message of mental health can be disguised. Other than that, there's no, we need more people to understand, we need more fathers to get involved, we need the healthcare system to take women seriously.

• 1:16:26Speaker 00

  Like, there was no strong rallying of the troops message when this is, as he said, his children's legacy to some degree. So I think that was a little bit confusing. And then Rachel Dannis is introduced. Ross states that they met in a run club, January 2024, in New York City, and they got to know each other over coffee. Rachel says, Pat pulls out his phone to pay and I noticed this adorable photo of children as the wallpaper. And I just asked, who are those cuties? And Pat had said, those are my kids. And then I think I asked if they lived in Massachusetts and Pat said, they died. And this is just at the cashier.

• 1:17:12Speaker 00

  Netizens have thoughts about that statement. Some think Patrick is weird, some think coffee is weird, some think Massachusetts is weird, others think the word cutie is weird. I guess some people are like, did you meet at a run club or did you meet getting coffee? But I think it's insinuated that they met at a run club and then they all got coffee afterwards, right? Or at least the two of them got coffee afterwards. Some people are wondering, why did you ask him if his kids are in Massachusetts, if you don't know Patrick? But I think it could be implied that as they're running, she's like, oh, like what part of the city are you from? And he's like, oh, I just moved from Massachusetts. I don't really know, I just joined. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of inference that could be made, but um, some people think that Patrick is weird for saying they died so casually at a cashier station at a coffee shop.

• 1:17:56Speaker 00

  Others think it's not really weird. Others think, in fact, it would be weirder if he's trying to make it a big deal. Usually people try to downplay their trauma to not offend or burden the other person with their reaction. So if he had said, oh, well, not exactly, that would have been stranger, like what, what should he have said, right? Rachel continues, I guess I had so many questions and yet at the same time, I didn't know exactly what to ask. I think I asked their names and ages and then the conversation just continued from there. Did you actually imagine that this was a first date that could lead to love and marriage? So this is the part where I think people were confused of like, wait, I thought they're just meeting as friends. Like, is this a date now? Is it a coffee date? We don't know.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  But he asked if it was the first day.

• 1:18:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  And what did they say?

• 1:18:43Speaker 00

  Maybe he's saying like in hindsight.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Oh, in hindsight.

• 1:18:46Speaker 00

  He didn't say those words. She says, no. So you thought this was a guy I want to be friends with and help? I thought, I hope Pat wants to be friends. And let's remain friends. So people thought this wording was weird. Some people are like, what do you mean, remain friends? If you guys aren't dating, why do you go back to being friends? Like, remain friends, I guess people thought was weird? Or is she trying to say like, I wanted to be friends with Pat, maybe he wanted to date me from the get-go and I said, no, I just want to be friends. And I hoped that he would want to stay friends and not try to escalate later. We really don't know. And again, is it their responsibility to cater their words to ease the minds of the public?

• 1:19:31Speaker 00

  No, but it was just strange that they didn't come a little bit more prepared in certain aspects. They were just friends for a few months until Patrick came to one of her races and met her sister. Rachel has a sister who has Down syndrome and Rachel says, I had my sister with me after the race. And then she met Pat. I think you can tell a lot about someone when they're interacting with a person with special needs. Pat was really friendly, really warm. And I again, though, wasn't taking it that seriously, but we were all at a, sitting at a picnic table and I didn't know it at the time. But Pat had taken a candid photo of me with Lauren. We were just hugging and Rachel starts smiling really big and it looks like she's gonna start crying and she does.

• 1:20:17Speaker 00

  And she looks at Patrick and says, sorry, I just love her so much. And Pat really saw what matters to me. Uh, again, people are picking apart the statement, um, saying like, warm and friendly doesn't really seem like Pat. But we don't really know Patrick, we just know him from this case. So of course, warm and friendly may not be his presenting emotions. There's also, some people thought it was weird that she's crying about her sister, but not crying about the kids. I tend to disagree with that sentiment a tiny bit because I also think it would be off-putting if she came on TV and was crying about the three children.

• 1:21:00Speaker 00

  I see some parts where it seems like she's trying not to cry when she's talking about the kids later. But I think it would also rub people the wrong way if she's sobbing and she's like, oh my gosh, I just feel so bad for him and for the kids. Like, I think that would have also been strange. What did people say to you when you guys started officially dating? Everyone paused? Understandably so. I say everyone, I had told a couple of close friends, I think family members were picking up on it. I, she says, I think people were worried. What did you tell people about Pat? I said, and I still say, it was the first time Sundays felt like Saturdays. Cause you know, everyone has the Sunday scaries where they don't want to go back to work on Monday. So I guess, I think, I don't really know. I think the meaning of that is

• 1:21:45Speaker 00

  instead of getting the Sunday scaries, every day feels like Saturday, every day feels fun, happy. But some netizens think the line is strange, just like the, I'm just a girl line. Others point out that Patrick is staring at the interviewer for this very heartfelt comment rather than looking at his wife. Again, they think that's kind of weird because, I mean, your wife is kind of crying and she's talking about how you make her feel. She continues, so I didn't have a reason to stop. Life just got a lot calmer for me and while I did have hesitations, you know, Pat was saying, he wants the same things I do. Some netizens thought this was an odd comment because Patrick said the same thing just recently about Lindsay.

• 1:22:29Speaker 00

  Saying like they wanted the same things when they started dating. And some netizens have started theorizing that, or not theorizing, have been speculating, giving their opinions that they believe Patrick is a narcissist who will mirror you and say that we want the same things, we have the same values. There is no proof in that, but I'm just saying. Ross asks Rachel if she helps Patrick carry the grief and memories. Patrick says she does and Rachel says she hopes she does. Rachel says, I always try to take some of the some of the weight from Pat. So people are like, what was she trying to say? Some people are like, it sounds like she was trying to say shame. Why would you feel shame? If your kids were killed by the mom. So I think a few things with this, we really have no idea what she wanted to say.

• 1:23:14Speaker 00

  And two, if she was going to say shame, some netizens theorize like maybe Rachel's family has not been that accepting of Patrick.

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  And what made people think she was gonna say that? Just because she paused?

• 1:23:25Speaker 00

  She said, I try to take some of the, so people are like, what other word could it be? There's discussions online. And then she says, some of the weight from Pat. I always want to strive to do that. I know I can't fix. I can't bring his kids back. But if I can honor them and allow Pat to grieve, but just to continue to honor them in the present. I guess that's all I can do. And you guys are starting a family. Yeah. And what are you gonna tell your child about their brothers and sisters? Patrick says, I think every parent can agree you have different relationships with your kids, but they're all your kids. A lot of netizens are like, what does that mean?

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, what does that mean?

• 1:24:10Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the part I I I saw was hmm.

• 1:24:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, and he says, I can't wait to tell them about their brothers and sister. So again, it it's just kind of vague. It didn't really answer the question, but we don't really know what it means. What do you want to say to people who are coming to this case with fresh eyes, but just some vague sense that there's something to be suspicious of? Rachel says, I don't know how the stories have been so twisted. But I would hope people know that Pat is, as I said before, the most selfless father and supportive partner. And I was just a girl that met a guy running in Central Park on a really cold Saturday. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So I think this was indirectly addressing, were you guys together before the incident?

• 1:24:58Speaker 00

  I think it's weird that in the teaser clip, they didn't include the question. But of course, I mean, that's what a teaser is, right? But it was just the whole thing. Some people thought was odd. Others say this feels like a very genuine response. And now you have a lot of mixed reactions of people who are still very extreme in their thought of like, I hate Lindsay or I hate Patrick. And then a middle ground of people that are like, it's the extended cut of the interview is not as bad as the teasers, but it was just more confusing than anything. Now, the initial interview that aired was a cut version of this, and that was pretty bad. I thought it was very bad. The extended version does show both of them in a much less polarizing light. But I think the opinions are going to keep coming. I don't think people are gonna change their minds.

• 1:25:42Speaker 00

  One person comments in defense of Patrick, I think what a lot of you don't understand is that the lack of emotion at all is not a lack of emotion at all. He is fighting for his life behind those eyes. You can actually see the trauma and pain in his eyes. He's trying to hold himself together on camera and not absolutely lose it. He went through unimaginable trauma and has had spent years trying to heal and recover and navigate this new life without all three of his children. Do you know how hard that is? Shame on all of you for spreading rumors and blaming this man. Another comment reads, these people think life should be how it is in a movie. If it only happened a few months ago, I'd understand, but go through something on this scale and survive it. This is what coming out on the other side looks like for this man. They need to let him be

• 1:26:26Speaker 00

  and let him enjoy life as a father again. It's crazy that he even has to explain himself. Others are in the middle. They're saying like, I don't think he did it. And I'm not gonna say I think he did it because I don't. But doesn't mean he was the best father in the world. Doesn't mean he was the best husband in the world, and it's okay to have those opinions. And others think he did it. I think the sixty Minutes interview kind of added a bit more confusion to everything, if I can be honest, especially before the extended version was released. One person comments that they did not like Rachel being in the interview, writing, I'm sorry, there's something very weird about his new wife joining the interview.

• 1:27:05Speaker 00

  Others argue, I don't really blame her, though. The delusional Patrick did it crowd are accusing her of all sorts of crazy things. I've seen people claim that she helped Patrick kill the kids. If people were accusing me and my husband of murdering his children, I'd probably want to speak out too. But others are arguing when they spoke out, did they address those rumors? Did they shut those rumors down? Or did they inadvertently fuel more of those rumors? I guess that's up for everyone to debate. Others asked the question, what better way to demand people to stop talking about you than to give a highly publicized interview? Others argue, if everyone was out there saying the most insane things about you, wouldn't you still do the interview just to clear your name?

• 1:27:45Speaker 00

  I think the interview was emotionally impactful. I think it was emotionally clarifying to a lot of people, regardless of where you stand on this case. I don't know if it was the most enlightening in terms of questions that people wanted answers to or to the Patrick did it crowd or to any of that. I think it could be argued that Patrick and Rachel, again, do not owe the internet any answers, but it just seemed a little more confusing than anything. It feels like both sides were left slightly with more questions than before. Many people on TikTok with a PR background have said that just from a PR perspective, this was horrendous of an interview. And again, this is not their opinion on who's guilty, who's not guilty, or their opinion on any of the individuals.

• 1:28:28Speaker 00

  They just thought from a PR perspective, it was not a good interview. These were not good answers. Whether it's clipped by CBS to make them look a certain way, it just was not good. But one thing I will say that I've noticed from this interview is um because I've been working on this case for like weeks, right? SEO has been wild since the interview came out. Because I'm like, oh, I remember reading a whole Reddit thread, like a very lengthy Reddit thread with a lot of comments, a lot of interactions about this very niche topic involving Patrick Clancy and Rachel Dannis, or one of the, one of the other aspects of this case.

• 1:29:06Speaker 00

  And typically, when I'm able to Google it, it pops up very quickly because I'm like, okay, I remember this was the exact phrasing of either the Reddit post or the responses. This was the general topic. If you look up a lot of things, when you get into the niche categories of all the online rumors about this case, most of the Reddit threads that get popped up or the Google SEO searches are about this interview. What did Patrick say in the interview? CBS interview, this interview, this interview, it's just plethora of like, what are your thoughts on this interview? Interview, interview, interview? That's not me saying like, oh, Patrick and Rachel did this for the SEO results, right? Because I don't even know if they know. I wouldn't have known if I wasn't actively in the depths of Googling things about random niche conspiracies online, but

• 1:29:48Speaker 00

  but also maybe this is not to address those rumors. Maybe this is Patrick and Rachel's way of announcing that they are starting their own family so that they can move on and people won't have a zillion questions because on TMZ, she looked slightly pregnant. According to netizens and people went into a frenzy, so maybe they just wanna safeguard some of that time to grow their family and Rachel be pregnant. And they can just move on. Ross, the interviewer, did an interview with CBS after the interview. And he thinks Patrick did the interview because in short quote, I think he just felt like he needed to speak out to exist as a public voice among all the other public voices and also to talk about his children.

• 1:30:29Speaker 00

  I think that was the most important thing, his sense that the memory of his kids risk being buried under all the sensationalism around the case. And he wanted to try and put the focus back on them. Ross, what do you think most people in the online universe get wrong about him? Because he has been blamed a lot. There have been a lot of theories. You spent some time with him. What do you think that they've got wrong about Patrick Clancy? I think that what you saw in the trial and in his description of what was going on behind the scenes is true to his overall approach to this kind of grief. Where you have a surface level of powerful stoicism. He's capable of talking at length about what happened, about his life now, about all of his kids in a very controlled way where he's not overrun with emotion.

• 1:31:10Speaker 00

  Then you get these moments and we got to them in the conversation where you can see the stoicism break down and the raw emotion come out. So I think that's when he starts heavy breathing. He did that during the trial where he sounds like he's about to head to a panic attack. Ross continues, that's my sense of things that he's just figured out strategies and ways of carrying this grief. He's a runner. He runs a lot. I think the first time I met him, he had just run many miles in New York City and running is something where you're focused straight ahead. You're running and you're going straight ahead and that's mostly how he carries himself and then you push at it and the emotion comes to the surface. Russ, what can you elaborate on when it comes to them actually starting a family?

• 1:31:51Speaker 00

  And then listening to Rachel talk about her support for Patrick, what did you observe when it came to how she showed up for him? They are having a child and maybe starting a family was maybe it was a bit too coy of a way of asking it. This was my first sixty Minutes interview, so when I'm a few years in, I'll ask the questions more straightforwardly, but yes, they're having a child and I think there's a lot of things I think that feel to them serendipitous. Obviously, he's lost his children. She's a fertility doctor. She helps people get pregnant and have kids. Their relationship is built around, as far as I can see, integrating her into a world where his departed children are always present. We went into his apartment and there are wedding photos of him and Rachel.

• 1:32:31Speaker 00

  And then everywhere there are effectively shrines to his children and photos of his children and objects from his children. They've put together a life that's about them, but with Cora, Dawson, and Callan always present. This sixty Minutes interview has been, to say the least, controversial. Can I say mixed reactions? Differing opinions once more. It's just, it's been a lot and it's been interesting to see the reaction to the interview versus the reaction to Patrick's initial testimony at the trial, which we will be heading into next. In the next episode, we're gonna run through a lot of the trial stuff. A lot of the events of January twenty fourth, the cell phones.

• 1:33:11Speaker 00

  All of the data and information that the investigators have reached into what people think happened and then even kind of going through the Patrick did it conspiracies. If people think he did it, how do they think he did it? And that's just their thoughts, right? But so stay tuned for the next episode. Stay safe and I will see you in the next one.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

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