14128 Steve Harper Interviews Allan Philip Gold Retired District Psychologist at Reed Union School District

Broadcasting from the business capital of the world, this is the Podcast Business News Network. He's like a lifeline. If you're a parent, he's a lifeline. As many times, we don't know how to deal with certain situations when it comes to our kids. And he does in many regards. As a longtime school psychologist in California, he's also been a valuable resource for a lot of people looking to get into that field. And it's so great to have him back with us. Good Advice helps with Dr. Alan Gold back on the program. How are you doing today?

Okay, thank you. I'm fine. How are you?

Fantastic, fantastic. And you really do resonate. They're telling me we also have some emails which we can get to in just a moment. One thing we do here, we call it golden tools. And these are just little pieces of information, little thoughts that you can use to better your relationship with your children or just pilot them forward a little bit more. And I figure we usually end with it, so let's flip it around. We're going to start with that today. What do you have for us? What golden tool can you share with us?

Well, this is a tool not just for parents, but particularly for educational staff members. And I like to call it cultural awareness and cultural understanding, cultural differences. Now, most educators, not all, and less and less at this point, are, you know, white, white people. And there are many, many kids now, always had African-American kids, but there are Asian kids, there are Hispanic kids, kids from all over the world, in spite of what's going on around immigration.

But it's not every family and every culture looks at mental health in the same way.

And I think it's really important for schools to, uh, school staff to be able to investigate, study, you know, what are the cultural differences around mental health? How to, and parenting. Um, and the better that, uh, staff members can make a connection with parents. For instance, if, if, uh, the school psychologist or the teacher administrator really thinks therapy is, uh, important for, um, a, a child of a different culture. Um, ask the parents, how do you feel in your culture about, uh, having mental health support?

Because some cultures are very, um, mu- much more private about those kind of things. And they feel that, oh, it's the parent's job to handle this. Um, but, you know, so you can't force somebody into that. But I think, um, making that kind of, uh, connection and to try to understand the, what is appropriate or what's common or what's characteristic in that culture about supporting kids. Um, maybe some cultures don't even want tutors. Um, they, they may feel very differently about discipline.

Um, letting kids, uh, just do what they want to do. Or they may be very, very strong about discipline, you know, the exact opposite. Um, you know, we know that, uh, um, we've called, uh, some Chinese parents tiger moms. You know, they're very, very, um, careful about what they let their kids do. And if that is having a negative effect on the kid, how can we, um, convey that in a very respectful and understanding way? So this is more, um, for, well, it's, it's both for parents. I mean, if, if the-

Parents of a cultural different background can explain to staff what their values are so that staff is better able to find a compromise, some intervention that might be helpful and acceptable to the other culture. That would be great. So I think it's a message both for parents, not just to be rigid about not explaining their values and their cultural system to teachers and school psychologists and administrators,

but also for the school staff to be able to make that connection, ask those respectful questions. I'm trying to understand how you and your culture deal with this kind of a situation so that we can work together, that kind of thing.

You know, these are things that we don't consider. And even something like using a tutor or some of the normal protocols within a school to support students, that may go against some cultural beliefs and backgrounds. This is all new territory. I've never heard of that, never considered that. I'm sure there's many more layers of that that come along with the territory as a school psychologist.

Sure.

Wow. Do you have any suggestions on how to navigate that? If you're a parent and you are concerned about how the school is going to deal with your beliefs, your cultural background, should you be proactive and just reach out to the school and just say, hey, I just want to let you guys know this is what we do so there's no embarrassment later for the student?

Yeah, I think that's, as I've said many times, the importance of communication is so critical. So if the parents can proactively put themselves out there and say, you know, we're part of this culture, this is our history, this is our ethics, our practice, and this is not how we want our kid treated.

Sure.

You know, that kind of thing. You know, and certainly in, you know, kids of different cultures are very vulnerable to being bullied, or teased, or criticized, not accepted, whether it's their language, or their dress, or their, you know, whatever it is. I think for, you know, both parents and, you know, we're a team. Parents and schools have to be a team, and in order to be an effective team, you really have to understand the other, all the values that are operating in all the people that are part of the team.

So, yeah, I agree with you that if, if parents were able to communicate, now sometimes that's very hard for them, you know, that things are much more private. I mean, even if you look back at our own ancestors, you know, people didn't, you know, people who were born in the early 1900s, or even the middle 1900s, well, I won't say middle 1900s, but born in the aughts, or the 10s, or the 20s, they didn't talk about mental health at all.

Oh, yeah.

This could be white people, this was white people.

Oh, that was, it was taboo back then. You didn't even, you didn't, you know, 20, 30 years ago, just say the words, "mental health," in any, any situation, and people would look at you like, "Hmm, somebody's got a little something going on there." I want to jump to a call that we have here. Hi, can you hear us?

Hi, um, hi, Dr. Gold, hi, Steve, it's Donna again. I spoke to you last week.

Donna! How are you? Welcome, welcome back to the show. Now, you, I believe that you have an update on your son who's 13, right?

Yes, that's what we were talking about, absolutely, and I have great news. We immediately contacted the school. The two counselors got on a group call and immediately called me back, and they found out, they brought my son in, and they found out that he was being bullied by two boys that were threatening him. And he was afraid to say something, fearing it would get worse. So I'd been, we'd been working with the, we went in the following day after that, and we went in and spoke to the school psychologist, and the school has contacted the parents of the two boys. Um, you know, after interviewing them and a couple of other students and they were recommended by the school and I, I, I believe their parents are cooperating fully as well.

Wow.

Um, so it's, uh, they, they had no idea that their kids were doing this is from what I understand.

Uh huh.

Um, so, and this past weekend, my son, he was almost like a different person.

Oh.

Um, I think it's because we took a step and, you know, he was afraid to say anything, but because, you know, the counselors and the psychologist stepped up to help him, I think it totally changed his attitude. He had a friend over on Saturday and even though they were playing video games, they, you know, after dinner, they went out to see a movie and he was just like, uh, uh, he was, he was good again, you know, and it was just, it was wonderful. I'm so glad that we contacted the school about this.

Hmm.

Well, I'm so delighted to hear that.

Wow.

So we're gonna, we're gonna take him to see a private psychologist, just, you know, for him to talk because, um, you know, we, we learned that, you know, by talking to his, uh, his counselors and the psychologist really helped him.

If I remember correctly, you had told us that your son was struggling with school, his attitude, and if I remember correctly, that his grades weren't the greatest and he'd also gone to detention not once, but twice in one month, right?

Yes, you have a great memory. That's exactly it. Yep. And, um, we've just seen in just a couple of days, Dr. We've seen such a transition in him because I, I do believe that, that talking about it and getting the right help and going to an adult in this situation, uh, was the best thing that he could have done. And the way they handled it was so wonderful.

Great. That's such good news. I'm so glad that we were able to, uh, talk about your son last week, you know, and, and.

Absolutely.

I hope that that was, uh, help to you to, you know, motivate you to contact the school.

Yes, absolutely. And I just want to say to the parents, don't ever give up. Even if it's the slightest behavioral change in your child, it has to be addressed. You know, and I'm glad that we did. I'm glad we took a step to do that before it got any worse. You know?

Yeah.

And.

Um, one thing that I would recommend you talk to um, the, the outside therapist about is work on your son's self-esteem. Um, because that's, that's critical. That, that will last through his life. And, you know, when kids are bullied, um, often they will think, what's the matter with me? Why am I being bullied? And, you know, even, even if it's completely wrong. Um, and it's somebody else's fault and they're, they're doing that for their own particular reasons. But I think um, to, to work on just building self-esteem so that when something negative happens,

whether it's he makes a mistake himself, or somebody outside says something negative about him, or he's uh, ignored by a friend, it doesn't really matter. You know, we go through life having to deal with life's challenges. And if we have a reasonably strong self-esteem, we can recognize, well, I'm resilient. I can get through uh, that difficult situation. It may not be the perfect solution, but I'm not a bad person. These are really good things about me. And I have these strengths and skills and, and personal characteristics.

Um, and that can really be a, a savior of, of oneself. So that, that's a strong recommendation of my part.

Yep, absolutely. As I mean, back in the day, think, and I don't have any, you know, anything against these kids, you know, whatever. I know their parents will deal with it. They were reprimanded by the school, um, and I'm confident that their parents will take care of it. But back in the day, you used to think that was just kids being kids, you know, but so it's so important not to ignore things like this, especially when, you know, it affects relationships and grades and things like that.

Yeah. And, and different today, social media, texting. So there's, there's so much more, even when it comes to bullying, that the pressure can be on today's students. But on the flip side of that, I guess we unfortunately have a record of that, you know, you can, you can call that out.

Yeah.

Yep, exactly.

Well, Donna, thank you so much for, for reaching out. Glad everything is, uh, working out in a positive way.

Yes, I'm so pleased.

Appreciate you.

Definitely is. Thank you so much. And, and thank you again. I hope you both have a great day.

You too. Thank you.

Thanks very much.

Wow. Happy ending, I think.

That was good news. Yeah.

Yeah.

By the way, I'm kind of echoing again.

I don't know why that's doing that. We'll have to check with our tech staff. You don't hear it now, though, right?

Not right now, no. Oh, I, yes, I do. It's, it's soft in the background. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. We'll check that. Um, now she, Donna mentioned that her son is going now to a private psychologist. Um, would you recommend that, you know, on a regular basis? You know, that the parents, when they're having some challenges, you know, take it to that level?

It really depends. Um, if it looks like there's depression, anxiety, um, very low self-esteem, uh...

Anything physical going on? I'm not talking about physical bullying if the kid's sick. If there's any family crises, divorce, an ill parent, a sibling that is a special needs sibling.

Something that's not going to get resolved quickly. Now, I'm hoping like for Donna's son because it was dealt with and he admitted that he was being bullied and the other two kids were identified and disciplined. You know, maybe he doesn't need a lot of therapy. I'm never against it because I think everybody can use it. And even if it sets a, not a role model, but if somebody as a kid meets with a therapist and it's helpful to them,

it can set a sort of a pattern in the future. Maybe they're 25 years old and something's going wrong. He said, "Boy, when I was 13, I had a therapist and it was really helpful to me, so I need to do that again." Because I think if children are, have mental health de-stigmatized, then it makes it much easier for them to seek mental help when they get older and reach a situation that's very problematic. If kids or people go through life without any mental health support, it often has to get really, really bad

or it needs to be recommended by relatives or friends. You know, you really need some therapy. You know, "Your situation is very troubling to me." You know, that kind of thing. If it's obvious behavior or emotional.

Decline or challenge, um, but I think setting that up for kids, you know, they may, you know, Donna's son may not need to go to this therapist for more than several weeks or something like that. And then obviously the change already has occurred and that's good, which, which says that he, he can be resilient and he can make changes.

Sure.

But for other kids, um, I, I would never say no to that. Um, but just to be sort of conservative about it, you know, finding a way to judge, things are not getting better. We've tried a number of different, um, interventions in school and at home and nothing seems to be making my son or daughter better. That's when therapy really should, outside therapy should be, um, pursued.

Now, I, I never like to use these words because they sound negative, but it sounds like if you're going to get outside therapy for your child, it can't hurt. I know those words sound negative, but I don't see a, a bad side of that in, in having your child talk to somebody.

No, no, it's not.

Makes sense. You know, why not?

Because, because you know, this may, it may be a child that doesn't like to talk. And that's the biggest challenge. I've told you before that, you know, um, among the biggest challenges in my job were when kids didn't want to talk, you know, fortunately that was very rare.

Yeah.

But, uh, you know, you can, spending more time with the therapist, you know, often kids who don't talk, what they do is play therapy. Um, you know, so they'll do everything from play in a sandbox to, um, you know, play games and hopefully that builds the trust and the comfort that the child can actually start talking.

And I've heard a lot recently about play therapy. Dr. Gold, like it's, it's, it's a big thing, even adults. I've heard, I spoke with a play therapist, even, yes, it's for, for, for kids, teens. But they even expressed to me that they've had adults in and, you know, messed around with the sand table, made some kind of design and then asked, you know, all right, what's coming up for you there within that? I want to, we have a few minutes left. I want to go to an email that we got.

Sure.

This is by way of instant feedback, [email protected]. Crown Point, Indiana is Dawn, who says, my daughter is eight and very close with my mother, who is going to be placed in hospice sometime soon. I'm not sure how to navigate this for my daughter. She's been emotional and almost in denial. Do you have any suggestions?

Okay, that's, that's a challenge. The fact that her daughter is eight doesn't mean that she won't be able to understand what's going on.

So I think what, what she needs to do is in sort of eight-year-old language, explain why grandma is going to hospice.

You know, the, a parent never wants to talk about death with a child, but she can at least talk about why grandma's going there. Grandma can't take care of herself anymore.

And she, you know, I, I think, again, being honest with the child is, is important, you know, when people get very old, sometimes they get sick and things happen to them so that they need care. This is just a normal thing and it's very, very hard for their children or grandchildren to accept that and recognize it. But what we want to do as her daughter and granddaughter, we want to make grandmas.

Time that she is still alive as happy as possible.

Hmm.

You know, I think that's so important. We're gonna go visit grandma. Um, what do you like to talk about with grandma? We don't know if she has Alzheimer's or a physical um, disease, you know, um, and I, I think it's possible to tell the, the daughter that. Um, you know, ma, ma, grandma is ki- kind of losing her memory and she, she may not even recognize you, but that's not because of you. It's because what happens to the brain with this disease. I don't think it's particularly wrong to tell a kid what, you know, what diseases there are and what if, but you don't want to scare the kid. And that's the, that's the horrible

balance. You know, you're very young now. You don't have to worry about this for a long, long time. Um, but I think finding ways, um, working with the, the daughter, let's bring grandma something that she really likes to eat. Or why, why don't you make a, a drawing for grandma? Or if you like to tell a story? Or do you have some happy memories of grandma? Um, you know, any of those things, does, do you know any music that grandma likes? We can bring some music for her. Um, you know, that, I don't know if they allow pets. Maybe grandma likes your doggy or something like that. So I think to try to balance the

positive actions with the negative information is, uh, is, is very important. I mean, like a nurse told me that I had polio. I didn't believe it, but I was eight years old too.

Wow.

Um, they didn't, uh, they didn't try to hide that. Um, fortunately I was young enough not to panic about it. Um, but, you know, so we don't want this little girl, and you know, the mom knows, um, how afraid the girl might be. So, you know, she may want to limit saying why grandma is in hospice. Um.

She, you know, usually hospice rules are you're gonna pass away within six months. Um, so she, she, mom will have to figure out, is it better that my daughter is totally surprised when grandma passes away? Or do we want to give her, uh, you know, a chance to build up? So, you know, and I, I think I would opt for the truth, you know? Um, because that gives the child some time to understand and to grieve, but also to be supportive of grandma. So she could say, you know, people go in hospice when they don't have too much longer to live.

Um, I mean, she could say six months, but it isn't always six months. But, um, that's the rule. So, so we have to make grandmas, um, last six months or however long it is, as happy as possible. We want her to, um, cause she loves you and you love her and we want to communicate that. And you have that, that ability to do that. And if, if you do, that will make the end of her life, um, worth living.

Hmm.

But it's, it's tough.

It is, yes. And, and you want the best for your child. You also want them to have as much time, quality time as possible with the loved one.

Um, right.

And I'm thinking even back to what we said before about therapy. It sounds like it might even be reasonable, you know, to have an outside therapist with your child at that point, too.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, cause I mentioned, you know, if there's a family member that's sick and dying, um, kids may need that. Uh, or maybe often what happens is that after the person passes away, then do the therapy.

Yes.

To help the child with grief and loss. And, um, I used to tell kids, or I'd ask kids if they'd lost a family member, what did you like most about your grandpa? And the kid would say, oh, he was really funny. He told wonderful jokes. I said, well, you know, you can preserve his life by doing some of the same things. If you, if you like to make jokes, whenever you do that, you can think I'm, I'm doing what grandpa did. Um, you know?

I love that. Yeah, Alan, I love that. That's like, and, and in the case of Dawn's eight-year-old daughter, let's say grandma loved to cook. Well, you know what, and when, when the time is right, in memory of her, you know, why don't we make that, that apple pie that she always used to make, you know, and share it with the family?

Absolutely. I mean, at Thanksgiving, I always make my mother's pumpkin chiffon pie. And it always reminds me of my mother, you know?

Mm hmm. That's special. Yeah. Thank you for that suggestion and everything today. Um, good stuff. Happy ending with Donna and, and her family. And as always, appreciate you and what you do. Instant feedback, [email protected] if you want to reach out to us and we'll talk soon. Thanks again.

Okay. Thanks a lot.

Appreciate it.

Broadcasting from the business capital of the world, this is the Podcast Business News Network.

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