S13 EP26: Matt Willis

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the musician Matt Willis. Matt's new book Mending: Busted, Burnout, and Getting Better is available online and at books shops now. Parenting Hell is available to watch on Spotify every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xxx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [email protected] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [email protected] A 'Keep It Light Media' Production (Copyright 2026) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  This episode is presented by TUI.

• 1:02Speaker 03

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• 1:04Speaker 02

  Oh, you've got to love it. Who wouldn't love it, Rob?

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• 1:46Speaker 02

  Atol and Abta protected.

• 1:51Speaker 04

  Hello, this is Parent in Hell with...

• 1:53Speaker 05

  Koda, can you say Rob?

• 1:56Speaker 06

  Rob!

• 1:56Speaker 05

  Great. And Beckett?

• 1:59Speaker 06

  Beckett!

• 2:00Speaker 05

  Can you say Josh? Dos.

• 2:03Speaker 04

  Dos.

• 2:03Speaker 05

  Okay, say Widdicombe?

• 2:05Speaker 06

  Winckie!

• 2:06Speaker 05

  Hooray!

• 2:06Speaker 04

  Dos Vincom.

• 2:07Speaker 05

  Well done.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Dos Vincom.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Dos Vincom!

• 2:10Speaker 04

  Hello, you fabulous humans. Here's my two-year, two-month-old, Koda.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  Koda?

• 2:15Speaker 04

  K O D A.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  K O D A.

• 2:17Speaker 04

  Saying your names. The classic bath time recording and a classic late submission as he's now almost four. Saw you both on recent tours. Thank you so much for giving me and my husband a brilliant night out without the kiddies. Have a lovely day. April, too tired to calculate my age in months. Nathan, approaching the big photo. Koda and, as discussed, Joni, 10 months.

• 2:38Speaker 03

  Koda and Joni?

• 2:39Speaker 04

  Koda and Joni.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  I like Joni. Not heard Koda before.

• 2:42Speaker 04

  I heard it, like it.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  Don't mind it.

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, Matt Willis.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Oh, now, can I say something about Matt Willis?

• 2:48Speaker 04

  Oh, he went all Kenneth Williams.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  Oh! In my head, he was a bit like the emo one in Busted, bit like sort of skinny, like black hair sort of dragged across. Now he's like, excuse you, have you got a motorbike?

• 3:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's blossomed.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  He's really, he's, like, he was already attractive, but then he had a glow up, which is not fair, actually.

• 3:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, because you've got...

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Because we've had slight glow ups, but the bar was really low.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, all right, yeah.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  No, but you know what I mean? Like, you know?

• 3:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  I still think we need to be funny to get female attention, not just our bodies.

• 3:20Speaker 04

  If it was a limbo bar, right?

• 3:21Speaker 03

  A limbo bar?

• 3:22Speaker 04

  You know, a limbo bar?

• 3:23Speaker 03

  That, that's a great idea for a business.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  What?

• 3:26Speaker 03

  Limbo bar. You're only allowed in if you can limbo.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  And then when you're in there, it's just, yeah, there's more limbo.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  More difficult to get out because you're pissed.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, easier to get out.

• 3:35Speaker 04

  Our limbo bar of our level was undoably low and now it's still, you can get under our limbo bar. But Matt Willis, his limbo bar was high.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  He's a really sexy guy.

• 3:45Speaker 04

  I mean, what a couple, in terms of looks.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Emma's, I mean, insane. They're so attractive.

• 3:52Speaker 04

  So, we're going to discuss, you want to discuss golf with him?

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, he's really into his golf, wanted to discuss, but probably his kids as well.

• 3:58Speaker 04

  His kids, who are teenagers, because they're teenagers. Obviously, Busted are back and bigger than ever, his book and general stuff.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, we'll talk about the kid, obviously being a parent.

• 4:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. And are you going to ask him about getting ripped?

• 4:12Speaker 03

  No, I think that ship's sailed for me. I'm just going to accept that I'm going to have tits and be happy.

• 4:17Speaker 04

  Matt Willis.

• 4:20Speaker 04

  Matt Willis, hello.

• 4:21Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 4:22Speaker 04

  How are you?

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Are we in? We have started the show.

• 4:24Speaker 04

  We are, fucking hell, right, nice. We should be honest. We did the intro and we talked about how good-looking you are.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  Really?

• 4:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  Do you want to be defined by being so sexy? Because I feel like you've had a glow up, starting at a high level to a, you know, to a stratospheric level.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  You're going red.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  I said to Josh, look, Matt, I said to Josh, I'm not gay, but I think you'd be top of the list if I had a go.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  Well, now I feel really weird and awkward.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  When you're on stage in Busted, you look, and that's hard to look sexy in Busted. It's not easy. You are like, wow.

• 4:57Speaker 04

  Well, I'm next to James most of the time, so it's easy.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Scoot away from Charlie.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  I was, my mic's as far away from Charlie as I'm closest to James as I can. But, yeah, no, I don't know. Yeah, I feel all right.

• 5:09Speaker 03

  Well, you look good, you're exercising, you look fit and healthy.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, mate, I love it, I love it all.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  How brilliant.

• 5:14Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, I spent quite a few years of kind of like, looking like shit, you know, and looking terrible. And I was like, what's going on? You know, so I thought, right, you've got to pay attention to things and kind of look after yourself and do all that stuff. Yeah. How long do you do in the gym a week? I do about four or five hours.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  Right, so you do have to actually put effort in.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  Well, at the moment, yeah, well, at the moment I'm doing that. But like, there's been times when it's like three, three times a week is enough, I think. But at the moment, I'm doing like four or five. Music on? Now it's a podcast on.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  What podcast? What podcast are you pumping on to?

• 5:46Speaker 04

  All kinds of things. I mean, I love the rest is politics.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  You're getting a pump on to Campbell and Stewart.

• 5:53Speaker 04

  Nothing like working out to fucking Alistair Campbell. Nothing like it, nothing like it, believe me.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Really gets the anger, the blood pumping.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, for some reason. So I listen to that, I listen to various podcasts. Music's a big thing, though. I listen to, I mean, I always go back to Rage Against the Machine. It's the best music to work out to, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can see that, I can see that. It's the best music to work out to.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  But if I ever go to the gym and have like, like heavy metal or like hardcore rap stuff, it's like upbeat and it, I feel like I basically get too overexcited and just exhaust myself after about 10 minutes.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  Well, I just stop listening to music when I drive.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Did you?

• 6:27Speaker 04

  Because I, now I'm luckily on zero points.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 04

  But for a while I was on nine.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  Oh, that is walking a line.

• 6:35Speaker 04

  It was a scary time. So like, I had to literally just set it on like, my speedo at a certain thing and not be able to go over it.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 6:41Speaker 04

  I was terrified for like, probably about two years.

• 6:43Speaker 03

  Because I'm on six, or no, I'm on three now, but I was on six points and I was terrified because the 20 mile an hour zone in London is a death trap and...

• 6:50Speaker 04

  That's what got me all the time.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  I'm trying to, I'm trying to do it and I'm...

• 6:52Speaker 04

  That's why it's a 20 mile line.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, good stuff, actually, yeah. So I've been using that, the cruise control thing, but then people behind you like revving and beeping, I'm like, I just, I need a sticker that says...

• 7:01Speaker 04

  I'm on six points!

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm on six points, back off!

• 7:04Speaker 04

  You need a sticker in the back of your car.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  I'm not a pussy here! I'm on six points!

• 7:10Speaker 04

  They should sell those stickers. You should start selling them. I should be a merch for the podcast.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Please don't beep, I'm on nine.

• 7:16Speaker 03

  I'm on nine points.

• 7:17Speaker 04

  Please don't beep, I'm on nine points. Yeah, so I had to stop listening to music because I drove too fast and carried away. My dad once, did he hit someone? He hit a hedge or something?

• 7:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:27Speaker 04

  And he said to me, I think it's out now, so it's fine. You know, he said, don't tell your mum, but I was listening to the Rolling Stones really loudly.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  That's why he hit a hedge?

• 7:37Speaker 04

  That's why he hit a hedge. I think he might have hit another car. Anyway, it was all fine now.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  Right, okay.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  But it, so it does work.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  It does work, yeah. So no more music in the car. So now it's just podcasts and audiobooks.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  That's good, that's good. So talk to me, you've got three kids?

• 7:49Speaker 03

  I have three kids, yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  I've met your kids.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Have you met all of them?

• 7:52Speaker 04

  No.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  Right, not Trixie yet, I don't think.

• 7:54Speaker 04

  No, I met two. The ones that are old enough to come to Strictly.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Absolutely, yeah. She...

• 7:58Speaker 04

  How old are they, the kids?

• 7:59Speaker 03

  Isabel's 17 and Ace is 14, almost 15, and Trixie's 10. Right, and so why should they have to be to go to Strictly?

• 8:08Speaker 04

  Well, I think they say over 12.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  Over 12.

• 8:10Speaker 04

  14.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  14, 14, right, okay. But they've got like some kind of kids stay where you can come and watch you rehearse this week, is that this week? So Trixie's going in.

• 8:17Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, good.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's very excited.

• 8:19Speaker 04

  Do the family come to Busted?

• 8:20Speaker 03

  They do, they do. They've come a lot.

• 8:22Speaker 04

  Have they?

• 8:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:24Speaker 04

  Do you like that or does it stress you out?

• 8:26Speaker 03

  No, I like it, I like it. They have a good time. Like, they still kind of, kind of get involved. Because we've got like multiple different places they can be. If they want a chilled one, they can kind of be in the stands on seats. And if they want to go mad, they can come down. We've got like this little pit at the front where everyone goes nuts. So I like seeing them in there and they jump around, have a good time. It's nice.

• 8:43Speaker 04

  Have you seen the Oasis film?

• 8:45Speaker 03

  No, not yet, no.

• 8:46Speaker 04

  His kids are like, it's both of their kids, isn't it?

• 8:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:50Speaker 04

  Are on the tour and they've got an incredible kind of experience to see their dads up there because they never got to see it.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  One of the best gap year of all time.

• 8:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  Oh, what, so because they, they wouldn't have seen it the first?

• 9:00Speaker 04

  They didn't see Oasis the first time.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  They hadn't even met until the tour.

• 9:03Speaker 04

  Really?

• 9:04Speaker 03

  The cousins, yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 04

  The cousins hadn't met? No, really?

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:07Speaker 04

  That's fucking nuts, isn't it? It's weird, isn't it?

• 9:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's weird.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  So do you, have you all got kids, Busted?

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Me and Charlie have kids. Charlie's got two boys. James doesn't, James is a, is very much a child himself. In the best way. I love him. But do you, I sometimes get slightly frustrated, like, well, it's like, Michael hasn't got children. Do you mind me saying that, Michael?

• 9:28Speaker 07

  No, it's fine.

• 9:29Speaker 03

  And then like...

• 9:30Speaker 04

  There's Michael.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  There's Michael behind a curtain. He doesn't like showing his face, I think for tax reasons. And sometimes...

• 9:36Speaker 04

  I see a picture of him occasionally on this podcast. He's got a very veiny bicep.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, the biceps getting veinerous each episode. I don't know why.

• 9:42Speaker 04

  It's a very veiny bicep, tight t-shirt, veiny bicep. I'm like, who's that guy?

• 9:45Speaker 03

  He's really enjoying the edit.

• 9:46Speaker 07

  But it's not real.

• 9:47Speaker 04

  Oh, there he is, look at him. He should show your face.

• 9:50Speaker 07

  Every episode.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 9:52Speaker 07

  It's a running joke and I'm just waiting for someone to go.

• 9:54Speaker 04

  Matt Willis has spotted it!

• 9:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, I spotted it, I spotted it. So that's not actually Michael's body, that's a fake body. So he's increasing the bicep vein on it each episode to see if anyone notices. And Matt Willis got it first.

• 10:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, you with a car.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  So, Michael, sometimes, we were supposed to be recording at nine o'clock and he sent a message going, oh, I slept through my alarm, you know, can we push it back 15 minutes? And I'm just like, I've not slept beyond 9am with kids in my house for what feels like 10 years.

• 10:22Speaker 04

  But he slept past 9am?

• 10:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:24Speaker 04

  Really?

• 10:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:26Speaker 04

  How old is he?

• 10:27Speaker 03

  He's 42.

• 10:28Speaker 04

  No, he's older than that, isn't he?

• 10:29Speaker 03

  He's older than that? 46?

• 10:31Speaker 04

  You're 46 and you're sleeping past 9am? Jesus.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  I mean, and that must be the same for James.

• 10:36Speaker 04

  What a life.

• 10:37Speaker 03

  I know. They seem happier.

• 10:39Speaker 04

  The same for James. Like, literally, I'm, like, we, he lives in LA, right? And so we go to, we do most of our recording out there. And we'll go, we'll set up studios and we'll kind of be in the studio and it'll be 12:30 in the afternoon and he's still not here. I'm like, what are you doing? He's just slept in.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 10:56Speaker 04

  Mate, what a life.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  Is it a waste of a life or are we wasting our lives by being awake too much?

• 11:01Speaker 04

  I don't know, I don't know. But also, then he wants to go really late, so he wants to, he gets to like 10pm and he wants to carry on. I'm like, mate?

• 11:07Speaker 03

  Oh, that's mental.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  Not a chance, see you later.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  I'm out of creative, creative ideas by quarter past four.

• 11:13Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  I'm done.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  It's terrible for your tour.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 04

  What time do you got to stay?

• 11:17Speaker 03

  I'll tell you what, I'd absolutely rip it on the M1. I mean, the tour manager's bent over.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  That's why you've got so many points.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. Put your foot down, mate, I'm running out of stuff here.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  So your kids are of an age though now where they're kind of self policing to an extent.

• 11:35Speaker 04

  In a way, yeah. I think that's the, do you know what, like they always talk about how like um when they get, when they get a school, it's really difficult and all these kind of periods that you'll get to in parenting, which are hard. I find this the hardest.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Do you?

• 11:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, I find, I find Isabel at seventeen the most difficult part. And not for,

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Emotionally?

• 11:57Speaker 04

  Not because she's more difficult, she's awesome, you know, but I find that like she's her own thing and doing her own stuff. She's got a boyfriend, she goes out with him, you know, and like she goes to school, miles, she goes to college now. She just gets a train every morning, disappears all day. And um like she started driving, she started driving, well, she started driving lessons. Right, um, mate, I've got to show this. Um, the other day she had her first driving lesson and um and I thought, where is she? Like, what's she doing? And um,

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Have you got trackers on each of them?

• 12:25Speaker 04

  Have you got Live 360?

• 12:26Speaker 03

  No, but my friends that have got older kids have got this. This feels like our next step.

• 12:30Speaker 04

  You definitely get it. It's amazing. So Live 360 is a tracking app for your kids, right?

• 12:35Speaker 03

  Talking to people with kids older, it's like talking to like, you know, people like, you know, oh, I don't know what I was going to say.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  It's a 4:30?

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's 4:30.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  I'm out. Sorry, carry on.

• 12:48Speaker 04

  So I took this picture of her and I fucking, I loved it. This was, this was her, I was like, what's she doing?

• 12:54Speaker 03

  And that's what she did. Oh, so you're just doing laps?

• 12:57Speaker 04

  She's doing laps. And she just did left turns. She just did left turns. She goes, next week we do right turns. I was like, really?

• 13:03Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  How amazing is that?

• 13:05Speaker 02

  That's incredible. Because she tracked you.

• 13:08Speaker 04

  She can track me, yeah, yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Oh, that's, that's the way to do it, isn't it?

• 13:12Speaker 04

  It's nice. It's a little bit like, it kind of, I was like, is this intrusive? Probably. But um, but it's all right.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  No, but if you're all tracking each other.

• 13:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Like my mother-in-law's on there.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Can you track Emma and Emma can track you?

• 13:23Speaker 04

  Emma can track me all the time.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  Have you ever been anywhere where you thought, oh, I don't know, well, don't anyone to look at? Well, not even like,

• 13:30Speaker 04

  Where do you think I go?

• 13:30Speaker 03

  Oh, no, but like something a bit embarrassing, you know, like sometimes you say a little white live, I say you finish work at five. And but you go like, oh, the pod's running over at seven because you're going to go for a couple of beers, or you might want to, you know, have a cheeky McDonald's on your own.

• 13:44Speaker 04

  Right.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Of coming back for, you may not want people to know about that. You've not been, there's no, you've been there where you're like,

• 13:48Speaker 04

  Well, a couple of times, like me and Isabel and Ace have a secret WhatsApp group called Golden Arches, which we um, which we go to McDonald's and like, it's our little thing.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  Emma's not on that.

• 13:59Speaker 04

  Emma's not on it. Emma doesn't approve. And so um, so I would just message them just a question mark. And they'll just get back to me straight away and will disappear to McDonald's. I love it.

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Really?

• 14:10Speaker 04

  So sometimes, but she'll track us there and she'll go, I see you.

• 14:17Speaker 04

  So that's where it falls down.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  And you did, because on that phone thing, you and Emma did that amazing show where you looked at kids and smartphones.

• 14:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Has that affected how you've parented since?

• 14:29Speaker 04

  I think so. I went into it with, with, with quite an open mind, right? Because I was like, phones are now so part of our life, right? Like, how can we really expect our kids not to have this, you know? And I kind of went into it with a really open mind about that. And um, and we did this show and it blew my head apart. Like, I mean, how kind of damaging they are to kids in every possible way that you could Yeah. damage them. The phone is kind of doing that, you know? And it was, it was um, and it definitely made us think twice. But then when they went to secondary school, they had to have a smartphone because like their homework's on it, their schedules and all this kind of stuff.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  So we were told we had to get them a smartphone when they went to secondary school. And then um, but now Trixie will definitely not have one. We're going to work out something. There's like some really cool, the fact they call them dumb phones doesn't help though.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  No, you've got a dumb phone.

• 15:19Speaker 04

  You've got a dumb phone. That doesn't really work. They've got all them like, I don't know, special phones or something.

• 15:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it needs a rebrand, doesn't it?

• 15:25Speaker 04

  It needs a rebrand, yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Like analog or something like, it sounds a bit underground and you know.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, retro.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  Retro, yeah. It's a slightly shitter phone.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  You could call it like nineties phones, couldn't you? Because that's a kind of,

• 15:36Speaker 04

  That's kind of cool.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  Nineties is in it.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, Rob's got two phones.

• 15:42Speaker 04

  Has he?

• 15:42Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  Really?

• 15:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:44Speaker 04

  Why?

• 15:45Speaker 02

  He's a drug dealer.

• 15:46Speaker 03

  Boundaries.

• 15:46Speaker 04

  Boundaries.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  Personal phone, work phone. So all my social media and stuff and all my work emails are on that one. The personal phone, all it's got on it is an email that no one else has got, but I need it to access like calendars and stuff like that.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  Right.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  And so all I have is my calendar, so I know what's going on.

• 16:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  And um, friends and like close friends and family, but very few.

• 16:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  That even like, so whereas like, I've got my, no, he's not on it. Parking apps are on there, Google Maps and all that, so I can get around, park the car, pay for stuff. And uh, then when I go out, I've just got that. So even if I do want to look at it, I can't do any work and I'm not going to get stuck on Instagram or TikTok and stuff like that.

• 16:26Speaker 04

  Brilliant idea.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 04

  Like when you first tell, I was like, why are you got second phones? That's weird.

• 16:31Speaker 03

  But I don't have to, I won't have it on me now, but I'll have it, I'll use it like nine till six in the week.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  Then in the evenings, when I'm at home and not working, goes in the drawer and I just, so you know, you're sober sometimes, like,

• 16:43Speaker 04

  Mate, that's a brilliant idea. I'm doing it. You just, you just convinced me.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  Convinced you.

• 16:46Speaker 04

  I need that in my life because otherwise I feel like I'm always on.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  And also,

• 16:49Speaker 02

  But what about, what about 360 thing? You'll have to be tracked on both phones.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's fine. You just have dad work, dad personal.

• 16:57Speaker 04

  That work.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  And then that's because that's why I've done,

• 16:59Speaker 04

  Why are they separate? Yeah, why is he saying he's here when he's there?

• 17:01Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  It's all getting to a war.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  So then what you do with Emma,

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Dad's on his work phone, but his personal phone seems to be at the McDonald's, so I don't know.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  No, but then you can put on the, in the McDonald's group, you just add in your new personal number.

• 17:12Speaker 04

  Right.

• 17:12Speaker 03

  And it has no impact on the other people because they, you will see every message because you always go to both phones.

• 17:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  And then you reply on either phone. It will just, it doesn't matter to them because they'll still be able to contact you.

• 17:22Speaker 04

  That's great.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  Because I find in the evening, if I go, right, I've, work's getting on my nerves or stuff's, put my phone away, I sit there and go, oh yeah, so what are we going for holiday next year? Blah, blah, blah. I'll go, um, should we go on the, you tried to go to Canada, you haven't got that.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  You can't search for anything. You can't turn the, you know, so.

• 17:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, great. Love it.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  That's, that's my spiel over.

• 17:41Speaker 04

  I think that's a bloody good idea.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  It is a good idea. The problem is, it's, I've asked him this so much on the podcast that we are going to have to chip into that, Michael, because I think that's about the sixth or seventh time Rob's explained it in the podcast.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.

• 17:53Speaker 04

  We'll clip that down.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I should say, I don't know where that personal phone is at the moment.

• 17:56Speaker 04

  We'll try this again.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  I thought you'd got two phones. I think it's a great idea.

• 17:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  I'm a drug dealer.

• 18:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I love you chatting about your two phones.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  Rob's, the third time Rob spoke about his two phones was great.

• 18:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  But Michael can sort that out. I'm sure he's got enough time in between photoshopping bicep veins.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  He's got more time than we thought.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  Guys, I'm a bit slow on the edit today. I'm getting a bit busy. Stop photoshopping your own body.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by AXA Health.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Family is a strange thing. You can be related, but you are completely different people, aren't you?

• 18:30Speaker 03

  I mean, you've got one kid who needs a plaster for a microscopic scratch, another who wants to keep playing football after twisting an ankle.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  I think, Rob, we know that I'm the first one, you're the second one on that one.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  And a partner who books every appointment six months in advance.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  And one who needs to be reminded of that appointment on the day of it.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  Everyone's got different needs, basically.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Which is why AXA Health Insurance gives you options. You can include family on your plan, your partner, children and parents, even if you all live at different addresses.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  And you can choose different cover options for different people depending on what suits them.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Because every family is unique. With the AXA Health Plan, you and your loved ones can all have peace of mind. So for cover that cares, choose AXA Health. To get a quote, search AXA Health Insurance. Pre-existing conditions are not covered.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Bradley Whitford. Watch The Diplomat, now playing only on Netflix.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  How does it feel to be in a couple where both people are famous with kids?

• 20:23Speaker 04

  I mean, I don't know. We've not known anything else, really. You know, so it's hard to kind of compare. I mean, I think it works. We kind of keep, to be honest, we're not really very show busy, if I'm honest. We're kind of quite, um, I know everyone probably says that, but we're not really very...

• 20:35Speaker 03

  No, but you are. You're not. You go to work.

• 20:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, we go to work. We do our thing and we go home.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  You don't turn up at a lot of things.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  No, we don't go to a lot of stuff. We don't kind of get mixed up in that. I mean, I did all that in my twenties, you know. I don't need to do that anymore, you know.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  But you went out enough, I think.

• 20:48Speaker 04

  I went out enough. I did quite a bit of that.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  You've done your stint.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  I've done my stint. They don't need me at some night club anymore. No.

• 20:56Speaker 04

  So we don't really, you know, we kind of just do our thing and go home. You know, the kids, if I'm honest, find it a bit weird, you know. I mean, I think they, I think they don't mind it when it's a controlled thing. Like if Busted is playing, they get it, you know. Like, although my little one was in that pit that I was telling you about.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 04

  Like, she was like probably seven and she was on my mate's shoulders and, um, and there was some girl like screaming at me, you know. And, um, and, you know.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. But you don't love it, right?

• 21:25Speaker 04

  You know, shouting stuff at me.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  What's she shouting, mate?

• 21:27Speaker 04

  And Trixie was telling her off.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  What's she...

• 21:29Speaker 04

  That's my daddy. You shut up. I was like, yes, Trixie.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Also like sticking up for a mum as well, yeah.

• 21:34Speaker 04

  Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Leave it out.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  I was reading your book, which is excellent, which we will come to.

• 21:39Speaker 04

  Thanks, mate.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  You came to, so I've been sent a PDF. I can't read a whole book on PDF.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Mate, I'm surprised you've even attempted it.

• 21:45Speaker 03

  No, it's just different approaches to interviewing, mate. You know, some people like to do the research. For me, I don't like to get an idea of the person before I meet them so that I can actually understand who they really are in the moment.

• 21:55Speaker 04

  I totally respect it. Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  Does that make sense?

• 21:57Speaker 04

  I can tell that from you.

• 21:57Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  I think it's the glasses.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Some always say, Robbie, you invented a sort of moralistic way to not bother to do research. And I say, yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, I have. Thank you.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Allows me to feel them out in the moment. Exactly. Cause you know, I can't understand who you really are if I think I already know. I'm a little bit arrogant in this chat.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  You've only preconceived ideas of who a person is.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  But luckily Josh is always here. He does read them.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  But you've, you came from a very working class.

• 22:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Council estate kind of upbringing. Where was it? South West London?

• 22:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, just by Kingston.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Just by Kingston. So interestingly, my wife thinks you, she was at a 21st birthday party with you.

• 22:37Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Cause she's fro, you wouldn't remember, but she's from Hampton nearby.

• 22:41Speaker 04

  Okay, that was over the river. That's the posh girl.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  And her friend was, yeah, her friend was dating Charlie Simpson at the time.

• 22:47Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 22:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:49Speaker 03

  What's her friend's name?

• 22:50Speaker 04

  Her friend's name was Camilla, probably.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Possi, what, because of where she's from?

• 22:55Speaker 03

  Doesn't sound very working class to me.

• 22:57Speaker 04

  Sounds like one of Charlie's friends, I saw. Yeah, no, he was going out with a girl called Camilla for a long time.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Shall I text her and ask if it's...

• 23:03Speaker 03

  Rose can't have a friend called Camilla. She's not 72.

• 23:06Speaker 04

  Charles and Camilla.

• 23:07Speaker 03

  Charles and Camilla!

• 23:08Speaker 04

  It was a name, it was a thing.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so did you, so that's, that's possible.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  It's possible, it is. Yeah, definitely.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  It just feels a bit like a super fans found you on the train. My, my wife's friend was at a party once where Charlie was and you're like, fuck off, I'm trying to get home.

• 23:24Speaker 04

  It's the end of the story I'm worried about and then I'll puke.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  No, no, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. It was just like, oh, I was on, you know. But yeah, so anyway, you were from, in your book, you talk about being from a very working class background.

• 23:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Does that then feel, we, we kind of cover this a lot because I think it's a thing that comes up a lot with the people we interview. Does it feel weird that your kids have got a very different background to you?

• 23:48Speaker 04

  Does it feel weird?

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Or weird's the wrong question.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  The only thing that feels weird is that they're quite posh.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 04

  Like the way they talk. And like Emma's like a brummy.

• 23:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  And like, and when she's around other people she grew up with, she's very brummy.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:02Speaker 04

  And like, I'm from working class background, but my kids are like, daddy, which is very strange.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:08Speaker 04

  And but also it, I change my voice when I'm around them a little bit. They make me a bit posher.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  Really?

• 24:14Speaker 04

  Which I quite like. Yeah, I'm not against it.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  So my kids have been dropping their H's and T's, like almost doing a sort of character act where they actually speak quite well.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  Right.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  But I don't know, it feels like they're doing it to wind us up.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 24:26Speaker 02

  There's no such thing as speaking well, by the way, you know. Each accent is as, you know.

• 24:32Speaker 04

  Is as good as each other.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  I'll be honest, as speaking as someone with this accent, it's not ideal.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  You've built a fucking career on it.

• 24:40Speaker 04

  I'd say.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, but not if I wanted to be a fucking accountant or a lawyer. I've only built a career on it by making it part of my act.

• 24:47Speaker 04

  You can definitely work in the city.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  That's, you're correct though. It's not well. It's a different type, way of speaking.

• 24:51Speaker 04

  Different way of speaking, yeah. But they speak very differently to me, which, um, which I find quite bizarre. Like I remember one of my mates who I grew up with, um, he was at my house for a barbecue and he kind of went to me, what the fucking hell's going on here?

• 25:06Speaker 04

  I was like, what do you, what do you mean? He was just blown away, you know, because we grew up together and he was just like, he goes, mate, you've changed, didn't you? I was like, yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Haven't you?

• 25:19Speaker 02

  I'm 42.

• 25:20Speaker 04

  Exactly. I'm 42. What the fuck do you expect? But it is strange, isn't it? You know, but, um, but I think they just, um, you know, also I kind of love it. They've got kind of a good life and they're happy.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 25:30Speaker 04

  And they're all right.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  You live in a lovely, leafy area.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  I do, I do. I know you've been to the pub nearby.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  Been there twice.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  Been there twice.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been for two dinners there. I met the teachers at your kids' school, one of whom used to work on the last leg strangely.

• 25:43Speaker 04

  Really? No.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  He came over and I was like, Rufus?

• 25:47Speaker 04

  No.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  This is Rufus and Camilla. What, what is going on here? I'm really feeling out the loop of this chat. Why is he going for dinner near his house?

• 25:56Speaker 02

  Because it's near the studio, so me, Jojo and Emma often go for dinner on a Friday night.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  What a gig for Emma, that is.

• 26:01Speaker 04

  I know, mate. Well, we moved there because, um, we, we lived in Crouch End and, um, she was doing Big Brother and it was a ball ache going to Elstall the time. So we were like, right, okay, we should probably, you know, move somewhere nearer your work because you're there all the fucking time.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 04

  And, um, and we moved there and Big Brother finished the year after and she's not been there since for 10 years. And then she suddenly got this job. We're like, all right, great.

• 26:25Speaker 03

  Ah, it worked out.

• 26:27Speaker 04

  We don't need to move again. It's good.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  So let's talk about the book that Rob's not read.

• 26:31Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  In it, at the start, you say you want, you did write a book before, but you didn't like it.

• 26:35Speaker 04

  I kind of always was like, I knew who I was writing it for, right? They always tell you, like, I've watched loads of these things. To be honest, I watched all these things on like Masterclass and things like that about writing, like how to write books. Cause I never, I think I didn't pay attention at school.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  It's really well written.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  It's, thanks, mate. Thanks. I mean, I try really hard. And I knew who I was writing it for. The reason of the book was kind of someone, you know, if you're struggling with addiction or if you're, if you know someone is struggling with addiction, you might be able to get something out of this. And, um, and that's what I was writing it for.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Because it's not like people don't know what you've been through.

• 27:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? Like it is, it feels incredible. It doesn't feel like you've held back and it feels really honest.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  No, I think, I think what I held back on in this was the kind of mess story, the kind of like real, kind of like, I don't know. Like when I, when I got into recovery, like there's a lot of, I got a lot of, I resonated with people's stories and I saw them and I saw, and I heard what they had to say. And I was like, I don't recognise that in you now. What have you got? And that's what I want.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:31Speaker 04

  Whatever that is, that recovery is, I want it because you speak like you were someone like me and now you're fucking not. Like, how did you do that? But then the longer I was in recovery, I was like, I don't need to hear about the mess. I want to hear about the hope.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:42Speaker 04

  You know, so that was what I kind of wanted to make this book a bit about.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  Cause I think that, that sort of, you could have hundreds and hundreds of those stories, but that doesn't help anyone because it's basically one thing to go, this, this is kind of things were going on because I felt this way and I didn't want to feel this way. So I had to do this to feel another way and now I feel this. And that's the, the interesting stuff. So like, what, what, for you though, was there a point where you were like, what do you think was driving that addiction? Cause really, it's not because people love drinking or love drugs. It's, there's something else going on inside.

• 28:10Speaker 04

  I mean, I love drinking. I love drugs.

• 28:14Speaker 04

  I did very much, very... They're very Moorish. But, um, yeah, but no, I think, I think that's what, that's what's in the book. It's kind of like, kind of like looking back and maybe like the stuff I've written about, like I didn't know how far to go into kind of upbringing and stuff like that. But, um, but like, I did go a little bit into that because I think some of it can kind of tell you where certain behaviours come from and certain kind of feelings towards yourself can come from. And I think that's what it is in a way. And the more, the more I kind of work in this kind of world of recovery, like I, I speak to people every day in addiction. And, um, like about a year ago, I realised something. I was like, oh, we're just completely incapable of feeling anything.

• 28:55Speaker 04

  Like, like we can't feel anything because as soon as we feel something, we need to fucking take it away, you know, like, and like, it's, it's learning to deal with that, I think, which is, um, which is what I had a real problem with. I just didn't, I didn't know how to feel anything.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  And I just numb it. And then the more you do, the worse it gets, you know. And then it's kind of, um, that cycle repeats, you know.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  But how do you feel about your, this book being out there and would you want your kids to read it? Would you, and how much do they know about stuff like this?

• 29:25Speaker 04

  I mean, they know, they know enough. I mean, I mean, Trixie doesn't know that much, but the other two, they've kind of been around long enough.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  That's why you're not getting a phone.

• 29:32Speaker 04

  Yes, exactly. Exactly. No Google for her.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  Disabled Google.

• 29:35Speaker 04

  No Google for her. Um, um, I think the other two have kind of been around me long enough to know what I'm about, you know. And like, like I think they know, they know enough. And like, we did a documentary a few years ago and Emma was in it. And it was about kind of, um, addiction and stuff like that. And it was a bit of my story. And Isabel watched that because she was about 14, I think, when it came out. And I was like, your mates might watch this or your mates' parents. Yeah. Want you to be kind of armed with some stuff. Um, and she wasn't surprised, you know, she was kind of like, I kind of knew that about you, you know. And I think I've talked about it a bit too much, probably.

• 30:10Speaker 04

  We get it, dad.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Daddy doesn't drink, I get it.

• 30:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Boring.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  Exactly. You're boring now. Once you were fun.

• 30:17Speaker 03

  So how long ago sort of did you sort of stop drinking? Could you, you've been sober for a couple of years now? Three and a half years.

• 30:23Speaker 04

  Three and a half years.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  How, how long, long has it been now?

• 30:26Speaker 04

  I haven't had a drink for 16 years.

• 30:28Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 30:28Speaker 04

  But I had a relapse with cocaine alone nine years ago, like a four month kind of.

• 30:34Speaker 03

  Really?

• 30:35Speaker 04

  Mad.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  So in the main though, you, you've sort of been sober since the kids were little, really sort of.

• 30:40Speaker 04

  Since Isabel was about, I bounced, I was trying to get sober when she was born and, um, and I'd have periods of sobriety, then I'd fuck up and periods of sobriety. And then when she was about six to nine months old, nine months old, I think.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:53Speaker 04

  I quit.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  Then, so was, were, were the kids coming the catalyst to get a handle on it? Or do you think?

• 31:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  At that stage, you'd be doing that anyway to get a handle on it?

• 31:03Speaker 04

  I don't know if I would be. I, I think I would have been still very much in it if it wasn't for kids.

• 31:08Speaker 03

  Really?

• 31:08Speaker 04

  I think, um, I think Isabel was the, the, the reason everything happened.

• 31:12Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 31:12Speaker 04

  And I think that's kind of like, that people talk about it changing you, right? Like, is it like being a dad kind of changes who you are? But I think it really, really did, you know, for me especially, it kind of like made me kind of go, oh, okay. Like, it's not all about me.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:25Speaker 04

  Which is, which is.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Awful lesson, isn't it?

• 31:27Speaker 04

  Awful lesson to learn.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  I hated learning that lesson. It took me fucking ages.

• 31:31Speaker 04

  It took you ages. Yeah. Took me, took me a while, you know, but, um, but then it really is like, I'm like, oh, I'm responsible for someone's fucking life. And if I keep behaving the way I am, I'm gonna ruin that thing.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 04

  Which is beautiful and amazing. And I'm gonna be the reason that it's, it grows up like me, you know, or whatever, you know? And I was like, I was not okay with that. So, um, so, uh, that was what changed it.

• 31:52Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. It's amazing.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  It was incredible, yeah.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  She's 17 now, so she's probably going out drinking and stuff.

• 31:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Well, not tying into it. Yeah.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you go, you know?

• 32:02Speaker 03

  What?

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Remember that documentary I showed you?

• 32:04Speaker 03

  Exactly. Thing is, I don't have a problem with like.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  No, of course.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  Um, with anyone dri- like, like, um, I can't.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  But everyone else seems to be perfectly okay with it, which is fucking annoying.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  But I'm like, you know, no, so I don't have a problem with it whatsoever, you know?

• 32:19Speaker 02

  They're quite different as well, aren't they, kids?

• 32:21Speaker 03

  They're so different. I mean, the parties they talk about, I'm like, this sounds fucking lame.

• 32:29Speaker 04

  Boring.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  It's really weird now. It's really weird. But everyone's got phones and everyone's that like a dickhead.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  You know, I'm like, wow, that's so bizarre.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 03

  No one wants to be a meme.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  But do you think like, cause you had that in you, right? That's, you know, psychologically.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  So even if you had grown up in 2026, you'd have gone the same way really, wouldn't you? Because I don't think phones would have prevented.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  No, I don't think it would. I don't think it would have prevented me. I don't think it would have prevented that. No, I think I would have been the same wherever I was, wherever I was going. People ask me that a lot. They're like, do you think being in a band was the reason that you? And I was like, no, I was behaving like this long before we were kind of like famous. I think having loads of money didn't help.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and a group, a team of people saying yes to whatever you wanted?

• 33:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. That was, um, well, that was very much my picking those people.

• 33:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  You know, that's where people like to blame that. But I was like, I'd pick those people around me. I was like, this one's gonna let me do what I want. You can come in. But, um, but yeah, I think it's very much, um, like I would have done it whatever.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:29Speaker 04

  I think, you know, it's in me. And that's what I think about kids as well. Like, it's like, it's like. Cause obviously there is a genetic part of this as well. Well, right. Like people talk about this is kind of like with addiction, there's a genetic aspect of this. But I don't think it's as simple as that. I think it's, um, I think it's like a, like a multi-pronged thing. It's like, if you've got the genetic disposition to it and you've had a fucked up childhood and you've had this going on and you hit a moment of fucking high pressure or whatever, things can spiral, you know? So, um, try not to fuck them up.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, cause I think if you've got, you know, let's say if you've got a genetic disposition to like, well, when you have a bit of alcohol, you want more. And that's some, some of the way the chemicals run through your body.

• 34:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  But then that's not the sole thing. Like if they've got a problem, if they feel they can come back to a supportive home and discuss it in a calm manner.

• 34:15Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  It may stop them going down the pub.

• 34:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, completely, yeah.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  To like top up and stuff. And I, I think I've always sort of like admired you and Emma from afar. I think we've, cause you both like got careers in the limelight. And I'd say both your careers are sort of, no, no one's career is like straight up or straight down or level. It's like, there'll be points where like you'll be more well-known or more successful than Emma at that point and Emma and back and forth like that.

• 34:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Which I could imagine for some people be a very difficult part of a relationship, but I've never really got that from you guys. It always feels like you're very supportive of each other. And it's not like competitive where it can be.

• 34:47Speaker 04

  We're a team, you know, and I think that's, we've always been like that, you know? I love the fact she does well. Out of her, you know, she's fucking awesome. She deserves it.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Means you can play golf more.

• 34:57Speaker 04

  That's the, that's the goal. That's the goal. Yeah. So if you can all keep this job. Cause then I can retire when I'm 50. I really fucking appreciate it. Yeah, yeah.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  You just do that.

• 35:09Speaker 04

  Don't worry. I'll take the kids this weekend again. Fucking have Monday to Friday playing golf.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  My Saturdays are now fucked. Thanks very much.

• 35:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, that golf for you on a Saturday?

• 35:17Speaker 02

  She had the radio anyway. She had the radio.

• 35:19Speaker 04

  Radio, yeah, exactly. Yeah, but she was finished by three o'clock.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  Do you think it takes longer to play around the golf than do a radio t-shirt?

• 35:26Speaker 04

  That's one thing I do do. I don't play golf on weekends.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  No, that's, I'm the same. I'm in the week.

• 35:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm in the week. Cause I can.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. And there's no one there either.

• 35:34Speaker 04

  It's nicer. It's nicer. The weekends, you've got some fucking, someone at your arse all the time.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  Or people playing competitions, which I fight too much. I've got.

• 35:40Speaker 04

  That's what annoys me. Whenever I do wanna play on the weekend, if I've got like a Sunday free, there's always a competition on.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. But the divorcees have got to go somewhere.

• 35:47Speaker 04

  Divorce, you gotta go somewhere. Exactly.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  Let them have it.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  Would you compete?

• 35:52Speaker 04

  No.

• 35:53Speaker 02

  Would that take the fun out of it?

• 35:54Speaker 04

  I think so. I think it would take the fun out of it.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Josh says like, the golfs are very strange. There's a real sort of sweep of people that play.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  And it's, some of them are hardcore. I, I'm the complete opposite. People still can't believe I don't look for my balls. I'll hit a ball like 300 metres the wrong way into the woods and they go, you're gonna go look for it? No.

• 36:14Speaker 04

  What's the point? I can't get out of there anyway.

• 36:16Speaker 03

  A fucking sniffer dog. Never gonna get there.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah, yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  And I was like, yeah, but you know, oh, and then they go, oh, oh, you don't need to worry about paying for balls. I went, I've bought a hundred lake balls for 20 quid.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  One's got, one's got Dunlop on it. They've not made a ball for 15 years.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  So what's, um.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  Do you wanna come on my golf channel, Matt, and play golf?

• 36:39Speaker 04

  I'd love to. I'd love to. I like your golf channel.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  I'm welcome.

• 36:42Speaker 03

  Why don't you and Emma come and drive the buggies?

• 36:45Speaker 02

  How dispiriting that is.

• 36:47Speaker 04

  And I'm trying to talk Emma into playing golf, right? She's not got any interest whatsoever.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Well, I've, I've actually got a bit of inside info on that. That's just come into my mind.

• 36:55Speaker 04

  Come on, tell me more.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  That for Christmas, you got her golf lessons?

• 37:00Speaker 04

  I did. The whole reason I'm playing golf is because, well, I bought us golf lessons, like, because literally I was like.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Did you before you started playing?

• 37:07Speaker 04

  Before I started playing.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Oh, that's better.

• 37:09Speaker 04

  Before I started, I'd never, I'd never played. And, um, and my mate said to me, he's in recovery. And I was kind of going through a period where I was a bit swamped with work and life and everything was a bit, bit much. And I was out with him and he's like, you have a hobby? I was like, well, you know, I've got music. And he's like, music's not a fucking hobby. It's not your job.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:26Speaker 04

  And I was like, right, fuck, yeah, it is, you know?

• 37:29Speaker 02

  It's been your job since you were 20.

• 37:30Speaker 04

  Since I was 16, you know, but I never sit down and just play for fun. Like, I never do that anymore, you know? I've always got something to, to do. There's always some agenda with it. So it's like, no, I don't really have a hobby. He's like, you need one. So the first one I picked was golf. I thought, right, okay, I'll try people seem at 40 to play golf. I was like, right, okay, great. So I bought me and Emma 10 golf lessons for Christmas. I thought we could do it together.

• 37:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 04

  Cause she needs a hobby as well, like, right? She like, I was like, you do the, you're the same as me, you know, you need somebody else outside of.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  But I don't, well, I say that kind of thing to do, but she sort of looks at me like, I don't need a hobby. Fuck off.

• 38:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Don't have time for it. Where the fuck do you think you have time for it? Yeah, yeah. I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly what you mean.

• 38:09Speaker 03

  Oh, if I had time for a hobby, okay. I'll have the time. I know the chat. I know the chat, you know?

• 38:16Speaker 04

  But, um, so I was like, well, let's, let's try it, you know? And, um, and so that was in, that was Christmas. And by March, I was like, babe, we ever gonna, it was probably February actually. We ever gonna go for these golf lessons? Like, she was like, no. Do you mind if I do?

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:31Speaker 04

  And I had the 10 in three weeks.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 38:33Speaker 04

  And it was like, bang, obsessed. So now she's like, no, it's your thing.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  Oh. But is that a bit of your personality as well? You get really into stuff, like before it's been.

• 38:41Speaker 04

  Obsessed, yeah.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  So you're obsessed with golf?

• 38:43Speaker 04

  Very much, very much like, very into it.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  I quite like getting the clothes.

• 38:46Speaker 04

  I love the clothes.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Do you? I'd have thought that'd be the worst bit.

• 38:49Speaker 04

  Oh, no, they're cool now. They're cool. Golf is cool.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Golf is getting quite cool, I think.

• 38:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, just don't be put off by all the golfers that aren't cool. Exactly. Exactly. We know how to do it.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Your outfit and then let's hear Rob's.

• 39:04Speaker 04

  Um, well, I like to, I like to look like I could be playing golf or I could just be.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Going to the pub for a drink.

• 39:10Speaker 04

  In a very smart casual outfit.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Sorry. Sorry. Back away.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  I'm gonna dress like I'm lining up a pub or doing a line of code.

• 39:21Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. That's the outfit I'm going for.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  But that, I agree because it can look a bit.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  So you're not.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  I don't wanna look like a pro golfer.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  No.

• 39:28Speaker 04

  That's the one thing I don't wanna look like. I don't wanna look like I'm all fucking, um, hat and matching stuff, you know? I feel that's a bit too much.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 04

  Plus I think you've gotta be fucking brilliant to look like that. What?

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Like, like, um, checkered trousers and like a kind of.

• 39:41Speaker 04

  I think that's a bold move too. That's not quite my move.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  A sludge and a jumper maybe.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe a bit more for content, cause I've managed to make my hobby a job again.

• 39:50Speaker 04

  Absolutely, but brilliant.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  That's a mistake you've made.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. Let's not all go through my mistakes.

• 39:54Speaker 04

  It's not a mistake. It's not a mistake because I'm at, I was, I was watching it with, um, with a bit of jealousy.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:59Speaker 04

  So I was like, this is a way to make it like, okay. Cause I'm running into trouble now. I'm like golf again.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  But if.

• 40:06Speaker 04

  But if I'm filming it.

• 40:07Speaker 03

  Thank you. That's promo.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  It's clever.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And also what you can do is if you, you know, sometimes, I'm not saying this.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Promo. Don't forget, I've got a book.

• 40:16Speaker 03

  Bag, exactly. And we could play like, you hit the book at the driving range and the book's up there and we try to hit the book.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Boston Tortic is 10am Friday. Wow.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  Also as well, you know, if you are, you have got a YouTube channel, you will have work expenses.

• 40:30Speaker 04

  Oh my God. Right. Okay. So you put the, you put the golf membership.

• 40:33Speaker 03

  I need, I need a golf club to film a golf channel.

• 40:35Speaker 04

  Of course you do. Yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  And I need someone to play.

• 40:37Speaker 04

  Right, great.

• 40:38Speaker 03

  I need some clothes to wear.

• 40:39Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  I wouldn't be wearing them in my normal life.

• 40:41Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  Cause they're golf clothes. Amazing.

• 40:43Speaker 04

  Does the HMRC watch this podcast?

• 40:45Speaker 03

  What's that? Oh, no. Watch YouTube if you wanna see where it's going.

• 40:47Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. You're right.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not doing it. I'm just a truth. I'm not trying that as, I'm, um.

• 40:52Speaker 04

  It's very true.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Got a incredibly unprofitable business.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  Get free cover.

• 41:07Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 41:08Speaker 04

  HMRC going, he's gotta fold this.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  This guy.

• 41:11Speaker 04

  He's gotta fold this.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  This guy needs to.

• 41:12Speaker 04

  He's really committed to this business.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  This guy needs to start watching Stephen Bartlett or something.

• 41:17Speaker 03

  He's had a nightmare, innit? He just seems to be bowling around the country, losing money day after day.

• 41:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  But I'm happy. I've earned plenty of money not being happy. Why don't I try the other route? I'm hurting fuck all, loving life.

• 41:34Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Are any of your kids to?

• 41:39Speaker 04

  To bring it back.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  To bring it back. Are any of your kids?

• 41:42Speaker 03

  Do they play?

• 41:42Speaker 02

  Do they? I was gonna say golf. Do they play music or?

• 41:45Speaker 04

  They're all musical.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Are they?

• 41:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're all upset. They're all, they're all well in it. Yeah, we've got a house full of.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  How have you?

• 41:54Speaker 04

  Absolutely. And I love it.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  Jazz hands everywhere.

• 41:57Speaker 04

  I love it.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Cause you're in cabaret, right?

• 41:59Speaker 04

  I was here recently. I mean, I've, I've, I've been in loads of theatre.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  I think that's when I first started fancying you.

• 42:04Speaker 04

  When I had lipstick and eyeliner.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:06Speaker 03

  Have you ever seen me in drag?

• 42:09Speaker 04

  No.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Oh, it's something else.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  Really?

• 42:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 04

  How often is this happening?

• 42:13Speaker 03

  Well, I did a Rob and Ramesh drag episode.

• 42:15Speaker 04

  Oh, right.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  So I've seen you, obviously. So do you wanna get me up?

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was Camilla. So I went to look at it and then I've just got, um.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  No, my name wasn't Camilla.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Oh, no, you went to my wife's 21st.

• 42:25Speaker 04

  I went to your wife's 21st?

• 42:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:27Speaker 04

  No.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Well, this is before you knew her?

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  So I met her before you did?

• 42:33Speaker 02

  No, I don't know if you met, did. So yes, Camilla, who worked on Buzzcocks with my wife.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  Oh, right.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  It was my 21st at a nightclub in Westbourne Park called Woody's.

• 42:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, my god, fucking hell, yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I've been there a couple of times.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  So Camilla and Charlie at Woody's?

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Um, I'm pretty sure it was around the time that Charlie Simpson bought a Porsche, which really stuck in my head.

• 42:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:54Speaker 03

  I bet it did.

• 42:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. That was his, that was his, that was his second car.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  That was his second car.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Really?

• 42:58Speaker 04

  He had a Mini for three months, bought a Porsche.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:02Speaker 04

  Boxster, felt a bit like a hairdresser, so bought a Ferrari.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Bloody hell.

• 43:07Speaker 04

  All within a year.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Different time.

• 43:08Speaker 04

  Different time.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Different time.

• 43:09Speaker 04

  Different time.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  Uh, here I am.

• 43:11Speaker 04

  I just spilled all the drugs.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Oh, my word.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  What'd you think?

• 43:18Speaker 04

  Oh, my god. I mean, that is so scary.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. I've got topless pictures.

• 43:24Speaker 04

  Can I please have another look?

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're welcome.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. She's a big old girl, isn't she?

• 43:29Speaker 04

  She's a big scary girl, but also looks like someone that I've probably met.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  I think she's mentioned in the lowest points of the.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  Very scary about that.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  It's like, it's like Grotbag's is glow up.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  It's really interesting.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's very interesting, yeah.

• 43:49Speaker 04

  It's very interesting.

• 43:49Speaker 03

  And that's what I normally say about someone I fancy as well.

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• 45:31Speaker 02

  Can I ask you another question then?

• 45:32Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  Um, it's gonna be a long 15 minutes if you don't.

• 45:40Speaker 04

  I fucking love this podcast.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  It's easy, isn't it?

• 45:42Speaker 04

  It's so great, mate. Mine is so serious. I love this so much.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  Is it all about recovery then, every episode?

• 45:48Speaker 04

  No, it's kind of like we branched out. It was about recovery. The first season's just about recovery, but we talk about, it's. I'm not promoting, I'm not promoting that, but it's about, it's about.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  Promote it, man. Promote as much as you want.

• 46:00Speaker 04

  It's very good. Um, and it's about kind of like, it's called On The Mend. And it's about like looking back at life's toughest moments to figure out how to move forward. So it's like looking back at what, something awful happened, how did you get through it, where are you now, that kind of thing.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  That must take it out of you to host.

• 46:16Speaker 04

  When there's three in a day, it's fucking rough. Yeah, yeah. Like, I try not to do that ever.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's heavy because you've got really, because it's their big, um, vulnerable moment.

• 46:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. And you've got to allow that, you know, so it's, um, it can be, I can go home, you know, wanting to watch your golf channel.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't specialise in that kind of stuff. I specialise more in the sort of, you know, more relaxed kind of content.

• 46:40Speaker 04

  Well, that's what I need. When I finish a free podcast, I'll stick on your golf channel and I'm like, let's go.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  You'll wait till I'm on there in 10 years' time because I've got addicted to golf.

• 46:47Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Well, no, because I find it's hard. When you're talking to people about addiction, it's like, one, you want to hear about the journey and the things they face, but like, there is a part of you, and I don't know if it's just me, where you go, like, I was addicted to whatever, and you do wanna go, well, how much was you having? I quite like numbers and details.

• 47:04Speaker 04

  Numbers and details, yeah, yeah.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  But yeah, that must be quite an intense, and are busted back, where are busted at this stage?

• 47:12Speaker 04

  Busted right now are on a little bit of a timeout. Um, but next year we're writing. We've been writing for, bloody hell, I mean, a year and a half.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Does it feel like you can appreciate it more this now than that?

• 47:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Cause there's the three of you, you know, and there was points when that didn't look like that would happen.

• 47:31Speaker 04

  No, no, definitely not.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  And you're obviously in a much better place. It must be joyful now to get to do it, have that second chance at it.

• 47:39Speaker 04

  I love it. I love, I mean, it's, it's been through so many weird times, busted, I think. Like, it's a really weird kind of like time in pop music, you know, but it's, um, but it's brilliant now. But it's, it's fun and we're adults. And we, you know, we, nothing really lingers anymore, like, no one's got a problem with each other, because if we have, we'll say it. You know, it's like, and it's not a big deal, you know, I used to think, like, we never talked about anything. We were like, like Charlie was 16 when he joined the band. Like, me and James started when we were 16, but we didn't get Charlie until we were 18.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 04

  And then, um, you know, so we've been like, we've grown up together in those kind of four or five years. So by the time we were 21, we'd split up.

• 48:18Speaker 03

  Really? Was that?

• 48:19Speaker 04

  It was like that quick, from like 18.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  When he, he started another band?

• 48:22Speaker 04

  He started another band.

• 48:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Fightstar.

• 48:24Speaker 04

  Fightstar.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  That's amazing. That's so young still.

• 48:26Speaker 04

  So young. And then we weren't together for eight years, nine years, and then we got back together.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  So was that, would you say, was that sort of your hardcore partying years then, once they broke up? Cause you, what was you doing then? Just sort of being a rock, living life of a rock star about a band almost?

• 48:40Speaker 04

  I did a solo record, which was very unsuccessful because I was a fucking wreckhead. And, um, like not turning up to studios and stuff. It was an awful time. But, um, I mean, I look back at it now and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was, but, um, I, I think having less to do and having a problem with drugs is a, and loads of money.

• 48:59Speaker 03

  Cause drugs will fill a gap in the schedule.

• 49:01Speaker 04

  They will fill a gap in the schedule, you know. I know what I could do with my time, you know.

• 49:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:05Speaker 04

  Stick it on my nose, you know, and that, which I did for many, many years, you know, and it was, um, but I think, um, yeah, that was when it got really bad.

• 49:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 04

  I think, yeah.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  And being back now, like, it's so wild to, because you were so, I didn't realise how young you were. How old are you now?

• 49:21Speaker 04

  Forty-three.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  So we're the same age. So I was at uni when Busted were coming like, at their peak, actually, yeah. God, I didn't, it felt like you were older than me. It didn't feel like you were going through that and it was done at 21.

• 49:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, we broke up when we were, when we had a press conference in 2005.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Oh, my god, you had to have a press conference to break up, like, take that or something.

• 49:42Speaker 04

  And then. I know.

• 49:43Speaker 03

  Did you wanna break up at that point?

• 49:44Speaker 04

  There was a Samaritan's Helpline.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  Was there? Fuck.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  I know. Fucking crazy.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Ironically, you needed it at the moment.

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. They didn't give me the number. I'm all the people, yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  You read it out, but you didn't have a pen.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  And then did you not see Charlie for years?

• 50:00Speaker 04

  Not for years. No, we didn't speak to him. No.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 50:03Speaker 04

  I mean, I think that was mostly his Tuesday, you know, he was kind of done with it. He wanted to do something else. He wanted to remove himself from it, you know.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it went out, because it was very like, obviously, super popular, which obviously means you get super hatred from other people that aren't into that genre. Then you have to break, then you come back, then obviously McFly exists, which in your head is sort of like opposing gangs, but then you come together for another tour. It's sort of like, it's, if, if you had to have every kind of thing that could happen to a band.

• 50:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  It's happened.

• 50:28Speaker 04

  We've kind of done it already, yeah.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Is there, there's surely a three-part Sky documentary ready to be made about you?

• 50:34Speaker 04

  Four-part, minimum. Yeah, we're all right. I think we're okay.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  You're gonna scratch that itch?

• 50:39Speaker 04

  We don't, we don't need, we don't need to go there. Yeah, we don't need to go there.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  It's all going swimmingly now.

• 50:45Speaker 04

  It's all going swimmingly now. We don't, we don't, let's not, let's not talk about that.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  Let's not get one sat down in rooms.

• 50:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, we're okay now. Great, let's move on. Yeah, yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Should we have a bad meeting? No, should we just play?

• 50:54Speaker 04

  No, yeah, great. Yeah, cool. Yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  The arena's full, we might as well just go out.

• 50:59Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 51:01Speaker 03

  It's not what I thought. Did you play Download Festival?

• 51:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  So I thought that was an amazing moment because I was there filming with Ramesh.

• 51:06Speaker 04

  Oh, were you there at the same time as us?

• 51:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we were filming that show where we went and sang.

• 51:10Speaker 04

  I watched it, yeah, yeah.

• 51:11Speaker 03

  Was you there? Yeah. Oh, you didn't see it live?

• 51:13Speaker 04

  I didn't see it live, no, no.

• 51:14Speaker 03

  So we were at the same time and then was like, I heard that Busted had planned a download and I was like, it felt a bit odd because obviously that's a heavy moment.

• 51:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  Honestly, you couldn't get near the tent and everyone in there was absolutely loving it. It was.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  You must have been nervous for that.

• 51:27Speaker 04

  I, I was a little bit until I turned up at the site. Cause, um, like, we've had a few gigs like that where I'm like, I'm not sure if this is the right booking for us. And they've always been okay. But Download was like, when, when Busted was first big, no one hated us more than the kind of like hard rock.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, the corang.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  Corang.

• 51:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you saw a Pantera t-shirt, you're ducking your head.

• 51:48Speaker 04

  Exactly, you know, or, you know, like, anyone kind of like, and also that was a music we loved. We loved like, we were big kind of pop punk guys and emo and kind of, you know, and metal, and it was all kind of our music. And they fucking hated us, you know, like, we go to, like, I remember going to a gig, um, and being ridiculed by the singer whilst I was in the crowd.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 52:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, literally, I was watching a band. I don't wanna fucking mention them because I hate them now.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Chesney Auges is a nice guy when you see him. He's giving that to you. He plays the one only three times.

• 52:19Speaker 04

  He's full of shit.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:20Speaker 04

  He's got it for all the time.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  Now he's taking strays.

• 52:26Speaker 04

  I know, I just thought it was a funny word. Funny name.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  So brilliant. So rich, Chesey Orks, I haven't heard that name in a while.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  So, so you went to the gig?

• 52:35Speaker 04

  I went to the gig, yeah, and I was in the crowd and then, um, um, the singer, obviously, between songs and someone went, play busted. And he went, what'd you say?

• 52:43Speaker 02

  Did he know you were there?

• 52:44Speaker 04

  No, and he was like, what'd you say? And they went, play busted. And he was like, why the fuck would I play busted? They were like, oh Matt, he's in the crowd.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 52:53Speaker 04

  And I, and he went, he went, yeah, you're banned shit.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 52:57Speaker 04

  And then everyone started booing me.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 53:00Speaker 04

  In the crowd and I was like, oh fuck, but I didn't pay for the ticket.

• 53:05Speaker 04

  But, but I was there to support.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  What band was this?

• 53:08Speaker 04

  I don't want to say.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  Afterwards, afterwards.

• 53:11Speaker 04

  Afterwards, yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  You put a lot of money behind the bar that night, I imagine.

• 53:14Speaker 04

  I definitely did, I definitely did. Yeah, yeah, just trying to make friends, you know, didn't go very well.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  Fuck, did you leave or did you stay?

• 53:20Speaker 04

  I left, yeah, I left, I left, I left, like during the shit.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  And that's kind of, without going, that's kind of.

• 53:27Speaker 03

  You got booed out of the building?

• 53:28Speaker 04

  Pretty much, yeah. Well, no, I was getting, I was getting booed and then the next song started, everyone kind of didn't pay attention and I was like, I'm fucking off.

• 53:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:35Speaker 04

  I'm not paying, staying.

• 53:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:37Speaker 04

  So, yeah, I left. Probably my time to leave. All the times to leave, that's your time to leave.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Oh mate, that's brutal.

• 53:44Speaker 04

  But it makes you feel like shit because also I love that band.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:47Speaker 04

  I love their record.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  Well, I don't like them anymore and I don't know who they are yet, but when I find out, I'm gonna hate them.

• 53:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because that's kind of, Charlie struggled with that as well and that's why.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's, I think that was the biggest problem for him is that, also, when he joined the band, right, we'd, we'd made demos. We hadn't got signed and we'd made these demos of like, me and James had wrote the whole album and we pretty much demoed the whole thing. Um, very simply, very rough. And he thought he was kind of joining the British Blink One Eight Two.

• 54:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 54:15Speaker 04

  And then we launch and we're on the front cover of Smash Hits and, you know, we're on CD UK and stuff like that. And he was like, this is not what I bought into.

• 54:23Speaker 03

  Got you.

• 54:24Speaker 04

  You know, and I think he was suddenly like, he was suddenly in a world where he wasn't really meant to be there.

• 54:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:30Speaker 04

  And, um, and then everyone he loved hated him, you know? So it was kind of like, you can understand what he's going through, you know, like I could understand it because I was kind of going through it too. But there was also a part of me that going, shut up, it's fucking awesome.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 54:43Speaker 04

  You know what I mean? I was still like, kind of like, mate, this is unbelievable, look at what we're doing, you know?

• 54:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, because also as well, you could have easily trend, like, transitioned into slightly different albums if you wanted to after that. But I suppose when you're young and it's not what you want, everyone's got their right, their own.

• 54:57Speaker 04

  Absolutely, and everyone's making money from you as well, so they're just trying to keep this fucking train on the tracks, you know?

• 55:02Speaker 03

  They're the real vermin, aren't they?

• 55:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, and like, we were just, we were, we were just like, we were just falling apart, you know, and it's like, oh god, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  I feel bad now because we had a Smash Hits, when I, I went away to America for two months and we got Smash Hits Top Trumps.

• 55:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  I remember Charlie Simpson being the best card in the deck.

• 55:21Speaker 04

  Really?

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Because he's tall.

• 55:22Speaker 04

  Yes. And was that, was that points on Top Trumps being tall?

• 55:25Speaker 02

  One of the things was height, so you didn't want to get.

• 55:27Speaker 04

  Did you resent that?

• 55:28Speaker 02

  I did, yeah, I did. But I was still taller than Muchu Buena and I always will be.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Full of muchu.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Full of muchu, shortest in the deck. But Charlie had a four factor of ninety-seven out of a hundred.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Wow, that's a huge four.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  Huge four.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  Massive four factor, a four factor. But you've got to get, you've got to find those Top Trumps.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, if I'd, now, if I'd still got them, I'd have bought it. Also, it reminded me, do you remember when we found my reviews from, um, the student newspaper?

• 55:59Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, oh, that you used to write?

• 56:01Speaker 02

  I used to write reviews for the student newspaper and I reviewed Air Hostess, I think.

• 56:05Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 56:06Speaker 02

  Or maybe Year Three Thousand.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  Right.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  I described you as a national treasure.

• 56:10Speaker 04

  Really?

• 56:10Speaker 03

  What, Matt himself?

• 56:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 56:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, the three of us, I'll take it.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  You're a third of a national treasure.

• 56:14Speaker 04

  I'll take it, I'll take it.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 04

  A third of a national treasure.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  You're a third of a national treasure.

• 56:17Speaker 04

  I'll take it.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  Or half of a national treasure in your couple with Emma, or a whole national treasure when you're playing golf on your own.

• 56:24Speaker 04

  Exactly, I'll take them all.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  Such a smooth talker.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Or writing your book, your book is called?

• 56:28Speaker 04

  It's called Mending. Um, it's out now, I think.

• 56:32Speaker 03

  Eighth of October it's out, depending when this releases.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it's out.

• 56:36Speaker 03

  Uh, oh, final question.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, go for it.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  Um, what's the one thing, we ask everyone this about their own partners, not just about Emma. What's the one thing Emma does as a parent where you go, oh my god, she's incredible, I'm so lucky to have kids with you? And what's the one thing she does as a parent that slightly annoys you a little bit, but you haven't brought it up? And if she was to listen, she'd go, mm, yeah, you might have a point.

• 56:56Speaker 04

  I think the thing that she does is that, that I just feel lucky about is that, you know, I said it before, but we're, we are, we are very much like a parenting team. You know, and so she'll, she'll not ever try to win anything. You know, like, she'll let me have moments of glory. Right, so like, if something's happening and I can, I can make them really happy, like, she'll, she'll almost encourage me to do it. Do you know what I mean? She'll let me have that moment. Because I think for mums, they get a lot of that anyway, you know, that's why we, we have to really sometimes work at it.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:26Speaker 04

  You know, and, um, and she'll let me or she'll maybe encourage me to do it.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  No, dad, if they're saying, oh, for a second, no, no, dad did that.

• 57:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, dad did that, yeah, yeah, yeah, she'll do that, which I love. Um, uh, just giving me glory, it's all about me.

• 57:39Speaker 03

  Just makes me look better.

• 57:40Speaker 04

  Makes me look better, yeah. Makes a little better, dad. And I think she does what she really annoys me, um, as a, specifically as a parent.

• 57:49Speaker 03

  We can talk about her as a person and just as a human.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  How many years have you been together? It must be like.

• 57:54Speaker 04

  We've been together twenty-two years.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  Or any criticisms of her at work?

• 58:01Speaker 03

  Could help to.

• 58:04Speaker 04

  Any thoughts and feedback? Any feedback, any feedback on presenting styles? Um, what does she do that really, really annoys me as a parent? Um, you know, I don't, I don't know, like, nothing really annoys me with that. She's, that's not true. She's, she's, she's, she's a warrior.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:22Speaker 04

  And I'm a bit like, let them make mistakes, you know, I'm a bit like, let them, do you know what I mean? Like, I'm a bit more kind of, he'll be all right, they need to learn a hard lesson. But she's very much like, no, we need to.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Maybe next week, continue doing left turns.

• 58:37Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 58:38Speaker 03

  Let's not overcomplicate with right turns on your second lesson.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Well, where would you say your, you two fall on that?

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Um, I think it depends on what it is. So, in my experience, whatever you've got hangups about from your childhood will rear up for your children. So if you have, if you had issues at school with friendships, if they're having issues at school with friendships, whichever parent had the bigger issues would be the one that's more anxious about it. If you're a bit worried about, like, if you weren't very good at PE or your, your diet and stuff as a kid, you'd be more conscious of.

• 59:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:10Speaker 03

  With our relationship, it just depends on whoever had a bit more of a negative experience of the thing that the kid's experiencing.

• 59:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:18Speaker 03

  Will be more anxious about it because they're thinking of the, being that age and it, how they felt then. So it chops and changes quite a lot, really.

• 59:27Speaker 04

  I find.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  Like with education, for example, I'm just like, who gives a shit? But Louie's got a career as being a teacher.

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Oh mate, that must be so hard, yeah.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I would be like, it doesn't really matter, I would ask if a guy just don't do the homework and they'd go, well, as teachers say, I'd just say, we just don't do homework.

• 59:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 03

  And then, and then that'd be that.

• 59:42Speaker 04

  I'd do a piece of homework in my life and I'm fine.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, which again isn't a great example.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  I've got a non-profitable golf channel.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  But then that's.

• 59:51Speaker 04

  That's my issue, you know?

• 59:52Speaker 03

  But that's bad for me because I, I should be saying to the kids, I should have done more homework and engaged with it. But I was so vulnerable, nervous and scared of education, I just rejected it, which isn't the right approach.

• 1:00:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  So going, you should just do what I did because it didn't do me any harm, you feel like you're giving them confidence, but you're not, you're giving them an excuse.

• 1:00:12Speaker 04

  You're so right.

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  So that's bad on me.

• 1:00:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:14Speaker 03

  And Lou's doing it right.

• 1:00:15Speaker 04

  Mate, let's just change my perspective or something, because I'm very much the same as you, I'm like, who cares? You know, why do you, like, like, who cares about? But Emma's very much like, oh, come on, they need to try as hard as they can. And I'm like, no, they don't, be fine.

• 1:00:30Speaker 03

  Didn't do me any harm, apart from the eight years of getting on it.

• 1:00:35Speaker 04

  You know, fortress to rehab, it's fine.

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:36Speaker 04

  You know, it's fine, yeah.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, you know, I just rejected anything that was difficult and I found myself on the end of a load of gear.

• 1:00:41Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. Couple of near-death experiences, it'd be good.

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  Or maybe they just do the homework, Matt.

• 1:00:47Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah, yeah, maybe she's right.

• 1:00:50Speaker 03

  I think Emma and Lou are probably right and right, they're just probably right.

• 1:00:53Speaker 04

  I think they're right, they are right.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  If I, what I've learned from this pod is Lou's normally right.

• 1:00:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  Um, this has been amazing.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Box out, October the eighth.

• 1:01:01Speaker 04

  October the eighth, yeah.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Um, preorder it now if this is before or go out and buy it now if it's not.

• 1:01:06Speaker 04

  Thank you very much.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  It's a.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  Absolute pleasure, thanks, Matt.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  Loved it, mate, thanks, guys.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  Matt Willis.

• 1:01:12Speaker 03

  Yes, that was a great chat.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Love him.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  Great guy.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  What a lovely man.

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  Why don't you learn golf or you can all play together?

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  Learn golf?

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  I, I've discussed it before and I'm discussing it, I haven't got the mentality to enjoy golf. The moment I had a bad shot, it would ruin my day.

• 1:01:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I'm getting worse at it, but enjoying it more.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  Are you?

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  Go figure. That's the beauty of golf, do you know what I say to myself before each shot? Because you can get in your own head.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  Maybe this is a life lesson here, big up to the people that stayed. Rather than going, oh, come on, Rob, this needs to be good, oh, why aren't you doing well? I just say to myself, Rob, this is just another moment to be incredible.

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  You don't, do you?

• 1:01:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I say that to myself, I say, you've, this is just another opportunity to do something incredible. I normally don't, but that's true, that bit's true.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  It is, this is a moment in time.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Do you say that before every podcast?

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  I say it before every sentence.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  No wonder you're a bit slow these days, there's always like a millisecond gap.

• 1:02:09Speaker 03

  Ask me a question, I'll share my process.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  Um, Rob, what do you think about, um, the, uh, the Man City financial scandal?

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  It's another opportunity to be absolutely incredible. I think, if you've got the money, go for it.

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  It works.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  There you go, what a great answer. A little bit kooky, a little bit off topic, he's a fun guy, taking a different, actually stop.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:30Speaker 03

  Bye.

• 1:02:39Speaker 06

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