Dr. Martha Deiros Collado - Online Safety Expert (Teenagers)

In the 2nd of a series of special interviews with leading experts (and lets face it, people far more qualified than us!) to discuss important and relevant topics that impact and inform modern parenting - we had the pleasure to sit down again with the brillaint ⁠Dr. Martha Deiros Collado⁠ to discuss online safety, device and screen usage - this time amongst teenagers and also parents, and what they can do to help. We loved speaking with Dr Martha in collaboration with @Tescomobile. If you’re looking for advice on how to have that chat or tools to help keep your family safer online, visit the Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub. ⁠https://www.tescomobile.com/online-safety⁠ @Tescomobile - Keeping up keeps them safe. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Parenting Hell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a Spotify Podcast, new video episodes available everywhere every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xxx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [email protected] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ A 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:02Speaker 00

  Rob, today is our second episode where we talk, we go in-depth with an expert on online internet safety.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, this time, teens.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  Teens.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  We've done pre-teens, now teens. This is where it gets juicy. More independence, their own phones, their own apps.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  It's the Wild West out there.

• 0:22Speaker 00

  Totally. And Rob, if you want some help, Tesco Mobile have loads of online resources, experts, help.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Yep, and they can help you figure out words like "riz" or "cooked".

• 0:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  But not "cooked" as in your dinner, it's another word for another thing, or same word for a different thing.

• 0:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  So, once you're done with this episode, visit the Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub for tips on how you can have a chat about your kids' online lives.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Welcome back, Dr Marta.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  The second installment of our, it's a sort of new, the new sort of expert episodes.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Because we don't know anything.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  How do you think so far, we've done?

• 1:03Speaker 02

  You've done great. I love the questions. I love that you talk from like a dad perspective. And I love that it just feels really normal and like the kind of conversation that you'd have out and about.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Well, get ready, things are about to go up a gear.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Because if that was the start of the canapes of parenting with kids and screens and online, we're talking about teenagers.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  And the big question I've got really at this stage, because it affects me, I'm quite selfish, phones.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  They want them from about eight or nine, 10. When do you give them a phone? What's on the phone? How much access do they have? And what's a plan really, or what is sort of the expert slash science opinion on it?

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Oh, the phone conversation is so complex but also nuanced, I think. So, not all mobile phones are the same.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Sorry, it's a massive open question, but.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  The only question was the opening six questions, and I had a few more to add, but I felt it would be, you know, it'd be too much.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  We're going, we'll take it slow.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  So you can just interrupt me.

• 2:01Speaker 00

  S-L-O-W.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Also, if you listen to the last episode.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  If you did listen to the last episode, that sounds weird.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  You've also, you'd be mad to come in this halfway through, would you?

• 2:12Speaker 00

  Well, I suppose if you've got teenagers.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  If you've got teenagers, you might not.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Oh, so they're just looking out for sales, are they?

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Smartphones were not created for children, so we need to think about that. So, that's one of my things as a mum that I always think. Smartphones were not made for children, they're expensive. You know, I think of them as like really expensive mini-computers that you have in your pocket.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  But I think you can give your child a mobile phone, and I don't like the word "dumb phones" because they're not dumb at all. They're really, you know, complicated and brilliant for staying in touch, calls, texts, all of that, without all the smart capabilities of the apps and the social media. So, you know, your question for me is, it depends. It depends what you want to do. I think the smartphone, I will delay for as long as possible. And obviously, we've now got the potential of a UK ban.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  Let's not, let's call it, I know, call it a dumb phone for people to just understand what that term means.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  Are we talking about a totally different model of phone, or what some people do is like they get an iPhone and then they disable a load of the apps?

• 3:16Speaker 02

  I mean, you can do that. You can get an iPhone and disable all of the apps. I think Apple has created a new phone that is coming out at some point. I think it's in the autumn. By the way, I am not sponsored by Apple.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  But I do like the fact that this new kind of iOS, I can't remember what it is now, 27, I think, the capabilities of this are slightly different to the old phones. So now, as a parent, you can disable absolutely everything on an iPhone.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  And even things like going on a website, you have to agree on your phone. So if they go on Safari, which is Google, Apple Google, and they type something in, it comes up on your phone and says, "They want to look at this website. Are you okay with it or are you not?" Which is brilliant, because it gives you, I mean, for some young people might say, "That's awful, they're controlling everything." But if your child is moving to secondary and what you want is for them to have, you know, a smartphone.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  But you want them to be safe, then I think that might be a good option. Of course, Apple is very expensive.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  I also.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Other phones available, Google Pixel.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Exactly. So I was gonna say, for me, as a mum, who is cheap, I'm like, well, if I just want like texting and calls, I'm not paying for that. I'm not spending £800 on a phone.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  Because by the age they get to, where you want to let them have the apps, they'll want a new iPhone anyway.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Exactly. So I'm like, I'm just gonna get you, and there's tons of brands, right?

• 4:44Speaker 01

  If you do have an old iPhone, or, I saw a thing actually.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Google Pixel.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Or Google Pixel, or Android, Samsung, or Motorola, Banana Flip Phone, One2One, Mercury.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Of an older iPhone. I've seen a thing where you can basically see accessibility settings.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  So it's for people that maybe have different needs, if blind or deaf.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Smart kids will just switch that off.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  You need to be really aware, we're talking about teenagers now.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  So if you do do that for your kid and they don't switch it off, great, because it's still there. Bad news, bad GCSE results.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  My friend said his daughter, who's 14 or 15, she gets around everything they do.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. The way I think about it is, when you, when we were all teenagers.

• 5:22Speaker 00

  Dumb parent.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Yes. We're all dumb parents now. This is basically my story.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Alison Hammond did that. Alison Hammond turned off her wifi at certain points where her son couldn't go online. He went in, turned it off for her, put it on for him.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  I mean, do you remember, maybe this is just in my house and I've got dumber parents, but do you remember having to set the VHS on record?

• 5:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course, yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Right? And my parents were like, "Oh, how do you do this?" And I'd be like, "Come on." Well, now you have to think, you are that parent.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  And your kid knows more about all the apps, about everything. I mean, I have so many stories. Recently, young, I mean, I won't go too in-depth, but I've got young people who, you know, are allowed on Snapchat, but now if you take a snapshot, Snapchat tells the other person.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  That you've taken it.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  So instead, they use another device or a camera to take photos of what they're seeing.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Of course they do.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Another kid did something, which I find, you know, of course they did. So, lots of parents don't know that you can get Snapchat on a desktop. So even though this mum was like, she doesn't have access to any of her apps, there are no apps on her phone, right?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  She had it on a desktop.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  She had it on a desktop, doing all of her Snapchat on her desktop, which her mum found. So, you know.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  I don't even know what Snapchat really is.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Oh, it's just, well, it's a chatting app.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  But these teenagers use it.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Lots of teenagers use it.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  It disappears?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  The danger with, yes. So your handle, so the handle is like the little name that you use.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Right? You can change it constantly, so nobody knows who you are.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  And the images, the things that you post, they only stay for a few seconds.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Oh, is that, oh my god.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Because the problem is, you can never really find who's received what. As a parent, you can't go back and go, "Let me see what you've been doing."

• 7:04Speaker 01

  And you show your location on a map, don't you?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  They can, you've got to deactivate all of that.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Oh, god.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Oh, my word.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  And also, it works, the algorithm with it is a bit like Duolingo. It has the streak stuff, like how many days have you been on it? And then teenagers really freak out about losing their streaks.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Because you get little awards if you get a streak.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. So that's the gamifying of those things, makes it.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Yes, a hundred percent.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  And it's the same with, I think, if kids have got low storage on their phone for photos, they use Snapchats to take the photos.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  And leave it in their drawers.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  And leave it there, yeah.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Because I think Snapchat stores it in their clouds, so that they almost use it as a camera.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  They do.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  App, as opposed to the normal camera.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  But again, lots of teenagers don't understand, and even adults, I've found it difficult to understand, you know, the digital footprint that never leaves. So I think remembering that you're less clever than your kid when it comes to this is like key, because stop trying to think, "I'm the parent, I know what I'm doing." Like, when it comes to teens, you do not know. They know better than you.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  So you try your best, they get to about 16, you just tap out and hope it's all right?

• 8:06Speaker 02

  You build trust with your kid. You don't tap out.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Okay, that's probably a better way of putting it.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  I've done as well, I've just tapped out, I've done a bit of a.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Never tap out.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  Two sides of the same coin, Rob.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  The way I look at it, I'm basically in a slow chokehold for my children to the point where I get to 16 and I just tap out.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  But you know, we're both teenagers. I think the reality is, parenting teenagers is like, "Oh, another ballgame."

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  And so many of us don't get, don't get taught how to parent our teenagers. And if you actually put yourself in a teen's shoes, you're like, "Oh yeah, I did loads of stuff behind my parents' back and they didn't know about it." You need to accept that's gonna happen. But the stronger your relationship is with your kid, the more likely they are to come and talk to you.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  And you can still set boundaries, limits, you know, rules in place. You're still the parent. And I always think, they are still children.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  With like, you know, developing bodies and brains and all of that. But they're very impulsive, they will take tons of risks, they do not understand the consequences of some of their actions. Like, they simply do not. And we're talking about teenagers, it could get intense, but I've met so many kids who have had problems with things like sexting. And I think as parents, we're like, "Oh no, that doesn't happen. It won't happen to my lovely kid." I'm like, "No, it happens. It goes around schools. These photos go everywhere. And once they're out, they're out."

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Like, stopping it is a nightmare. And so I think, when we're talking about phones again, when? I'm like, "I will delay for as long as I can." That doesn't mean everybody around me will.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  Do you worry that, there was a kid at my school, there was a family that didn't have a TV, and he was, you know.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Sad.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  No, he was.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Out of the loop.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  Out of the loop.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  Do you know what I mean? He was, he didn't know what would happen on Top of the Pops or Neighbours or whatever, right?

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Couldn't have a chat at school.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  But that's what's hap, that was, that's what your child without the phone fears.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  Yes, a hundred percent.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  And so do you, how much are you leading your own, ploughing your own furrow, and how much are you going, "We need to, as a group of parents, come together here because it's difficult to act outside of the group."

• 10:12Speaker 02

  My view is controversial.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Go on.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  So my view is, actually, as soon as you give your child a phone with those kind of chatting capabilities, and there are, you know, the conversation is very nuanced, because even just like, no apps doesn't mean they don't do group chats. And group chats are one of the most complex, kind of difficult things for kids. But as soon as you give them the ability to do that, like you're saying, you know, he was left out of the loop. I want you to accept that your kid, if he is that kid who gets left out of the loop, they're gonna get more left out. Like, a phone does not necessarily connect kids better together. It can, like, amplify social struggles.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  So bullying, more likely. And, you know, we talk about strangers on the internet. And I'm like, one of the biggest risks to your kid is their own friends on WhatsApp.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  Their friends on a group chat.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Not just to kids, to an adult.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I'm, I'm serious. Like, we think, oh, it's all these strangers, you know. It's not that. It's their friends, who will exclude them, bully them, send, send images of them, you know, like, do things that you're like, this is awful and it's really distressing my kid, and it's within their friendship group.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  But it escalates, it amplifies it, which is why the delaying isn't just avoidance, like your friend, no TV. For me, it's a way of supporting our children to have the skills to navigate the complexity of this.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  One of the arguments that the kid would probably make is, I need to be able to, and it's weird, isn't it? Because when we were, you know, we'd be out playing football or whatever, no way of our parents contacting us because we didn't have phones. But now, the idea of your child being out and uncontactable feels really weird, right? To us, because we're so used to a world where everyone contacts each other. And your kid would probably go, if I go into town, I need a way to contact you, blah, blah, blah, that's. What are the, is there other ways of doing that, or is it that we go, do you know what, it's actually all right? That they go without a phone?

• 12:12Speaker 02

  I think both and. I don't know who you are, I think it's different for different parents. I mean, if my daughter had to travel quite far for school, secondary school, I would think she needs a mobile phone. I would feel safer. Makes sense to me that she can contact me and say the train is delayed, or whatever, whatever, whatever.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Times.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Exactly. All of that stuff. And I would, I wouldn't be like, you know, the ban is on social media, it's not on your kid having a phone.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  And you can still teach your kid that actually the phone goes out with you because it's a mobile phone, it's mobile.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  But when you come into the house, which is something I'm practising, you hang it up, like a landline.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  So I've started to do it, and it's imperfect, you know, during the summer holidays, I've held it on a bit more, but now the school routine is back, I'm gonna try again. I just leave it by the front door. And I put it on loud, because we carry it on silent all the time now. And it just buzzes constantly. But if you put it on loud and you switch off all your notifications, apart from like, the ones you need, like texting and calls, for me. Nothing else, I don't need anything else. I don't need all my apps to tell me, alert, we use our phones like they're urgent. And I'm like, it's not urgent, most of the time it's nonsense.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Like, once you do what I do, it gives you, like, I feel so much lighter in my house, because they're actually quite heavy to carry in your pocket. And you're suddenly like, oh, and you're not attached to this thing.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  It made my sleep a lot better. When I did it, when I put it down seven o'clock.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  I will sleep much better. And then I've come out of it again, obviously.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  So much better.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  Do you know what I've noticed? Because I do it on holiday, which is not enough, right? But always on holiday, I'll leave it in the hotel room, and then we'll go down to the pool or the beach, wherever. And I actually don't miss it.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  No.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  If it's on me, I will check it all the time. So after we finished recording the last episode, I could see I had alerts, I checked it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If that hadn't been there, I wouldn't have thought, what's going on? It is something about it being there that like, my skin crawls with it, do you know what I mean?

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, but our phones have trained our brains to do this. Like, we need to be aware, right? The people who have created smartphones have, have made apps and, you know, the notifications.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  But they make more money the more addicted we are.

• 14:26Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. The more you need it, to have it close to like, you know, look at it, the more it feels like an essential part of your world. And if you talk to teenagers who have smartphones, and now with like the ban, they, they speak like that. They speak in these absolute terms, like, my life is over if I can't have my phone. And I'm like, this is wild, like, the way that these big bros have literally texted us.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like, they've totally tricked our brains in believing that this is an essential part of our life, when actually, it's really not. None of us go off to our desktop every five minutes and check our emails. We would never do that. It's because they're in our pockets. And I always think of them a bit like pets. I have all these visual analogies, because that kind of works for me. But, you know, you pick it up, and a bit like you said, you checked it, like, you all right, little one?

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Do you need something? I'm like, it's not a pet.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  It's like the adult Tamagotchi of our time. We don't need to keep them alive.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  They're fine. So we, and, and we're better when we have space. That doesn't mean, like, I love tech. That doesn't mean you don't have a phone. Doesn't mean you can't use it, but maybe you need to learn how to use it in a healthier way.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  How do you do that?

• 15:35Speaker 01

  You do need it. That's what I'm saying, you do need a phone, don't you? You have to, when I go and park the car, I need the app.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  There's not another way to pay for parking, so you need it. And then you use it as an excuse to back on it. So you're saying, when the kids start school, have a phone for logistics, communication, no apps. And so, were you gonna ask about the social media ban when that's?

• 15:58Speaker 00

  I, I, I was, but just to play devil's advocate for a moment, right? This, I agree with. Rob agrees with, you agree with, we all agree, that is how you should relate your phone.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  But how do you do it?

• 16:11Speaker 00

  That is good practice and good theory, but the truth is, it's an eternal conversation we've been having with each other for years. And all of my friends are having, that they're all addicted to their phones.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  So you need to, you need to break it, you need to break it, but you need to think of it as a habit, not an addiction. Not the phone. Yeah, and I think if you think about it as an addiction, I talk about this in my book, because if we talk about something like an addiction. It's called The Smartphone Solution.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  But if you think.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Actually.

• 16:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the solution is not just for our kids, it's for us, because a lot of what I talk about in my book is for you.

• 16:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  So I think, the way I think about it is, if you think about it as an addiction, it's something that's really hard to, I can't stop, it's like I'm out of control, right? If you think about it as a bad habit, you're suddenly like, oh, okay, maybe I can introduce a good habit.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I'm not addicted to picking my nails. It's a bad habit that I do when I'm a bit stressed.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  So it's bad habits that we've, our phones have taught us this. So also, it's not our fault. But I think, for me, it's about little habits, and we can all do this.

• 17:18Speaker 00

  Go on, hit me with some.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  So number one, I call it a, a family pledge, but especially with teenagers. You make, you agree some rules, so it was simple rules, and they don't have to be the same in your house as they are in mine. But why don't you agree spaces in your house where tech is allowed, phones, and spaces in your house where there isn't any?

• 17:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, good idea.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  One rule. Doesn't, you can still carry it, but when you're in that space, you don't look at it. And if you do look at it, you all agree, you can remind each other, taking it out.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  I think the truth, the truth of the matter is, if I'm carrying it, I've lost the battle.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Start your pockets, start your pockets, yeah.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  But I'm the same, Josh. If I have it on me, that's, you know, game over. So again, plug it in, you know, think of it as parking your car. You plug it, you plug your phone, and you walk her off, off your house. That distance helps, right? But it's little, tiny little things, like, for me, having sand spaces, like we have no phones in our bedrooms.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  I need to do that, but it's stuff like, oh, I need to set the alarm tomorrow.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  You can buy an alarm clock.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  I know, I know, I know, of course, but it's.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Get one, get it, buy it now. Get your phone out, buy it.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Click Phone Solution, get your phone out, use it, to buy something, stop using it.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 18:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Bang the way, start your pockets up.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Tiny, tiny little tweaks, like we can all do it. Switch off all your notifications. So I did this. And I cannot tell you how long it took me to switch off all the notifications. Any app you download, automatically.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  I know, I try and say no, I try and say no to those.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Do it now, live.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  No, you can't, it'll take you hours. Robbie, it'll take you, it took me hours.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  To go into the settings and do it one at a time.

• 18:58Speaker 02

  Awful.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  No, I've got a lawnmower, my lawnmower tells me it's started lawnmowing.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  I'm not kidding, though. It's like, your phone does not want to make this easy for you, because it doesn't serve them.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  But if we all did it, like, even if you're like, which one can I do? Which one can I begin with? If you start doing it, you're also teaching your teenager something. And then if you all kind of do it together, messily, imperfect. Like I said, I've been carrying my phone a lot more. But my daughter's like, uh, you're playing with us, why is your phone out? I'm like, oh, sorry. You know, as soon as it's off my person, I forget, a bit like you, I totally forget it's there. But she's good at reminding me, and of course, she's only seven, she's not seventeen. But I do think it's never too late, as soon as you start setting this up. It's a bit like, I do say this, and I believe it. Your kids don't remember the kind of lectures you give them. Do this, do that, whatever mum, you know, whatever dad.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  But actually, the little habits you instill in your house, the traditions, the rituals, they do, they will remember them. I do stuff that I did in my house because that's what we did in my house, not because there's a logic. Does that make sense?

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there's an opportunity, really, because if you're about like the stage that we're now, where my daughter gets to year seven. She gets a phone, obviously no social media ban might come in by then, but no social media, it's just a phone that does. You know, maps and messages and stuff like that. Um, and then we go, right, here's your phone, but. From now, we're all gonna have a family house phone rules.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  And it gives you, and if, okay, because then if you're learning together with your daughter or your son, then it's sort of a starting off point.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And also it makes them feel included. So I've heard all these things. I'm, I'm sure you have as well, like. Set a contract for your kid, you know, do this, do that. And I'm like, well, those like strict rules, like you're not allowed a phone here, you're not allowed a phone. Like, that's fine, but if you're not doing the same as them, they're gonna be like, well, this is mean firstly, and two, you don't believe in it, because you do what you want.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then if you've got younger, how does it work with younger siblings? So what normally happens is. Say you've got a, a twelve year old that's at school, needs a phone now, okay. Then the ten year old is still at primary school, doesn't need the phone because you're dropping off, blah, blah, blah. Goes, well, she's got one, I want, I feel left out now.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  There's a danger, it normally happens that the youngest child always gets everything a little bit sooner than the eldest one did.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  There's that, so are you really hardline with?

• 21:18Speaker 02

  I am.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Well, that's what.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Is that awful?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  No, it's not that we.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  I'm really hardline about it. I'm like, you're not old enough. You don't need it. You're not old enough. You know, your sibling has it for these reasons, and when you get that, you will get one too.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Well, we had that, me and Lou had that discussion because our eldest ten, we got one of her ears pierced, so we thought, you know what, what a great way for her to feel a bit older, that isn't.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Or whatever. So she's got her ears out, and then the youngest one, absolutely livid, because.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know, and then she's got a friend that's got us done and whatever, because every household has different ages. But we was like, well, no, and we just said, no, you've got to wait till ten. Because one is not, because you think it's unfair on the youngest, but actually it's unfair on the eldest.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  So, and then it's equal, but you.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  I think your kids are allowed to be disappointed. I mean, I say this all the time. I know it's like a separate topic, but I guess. With smartphones, there's a lot of disappointment.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  You, your job as a parent is not not to disappoint your child, like disappoint them, like. It's part of life and it's okay.

• 22:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  They're allowed to be angry with you, they're allowed to be upset, be like, this is really unfair, and you can say, but when you're ten, twelve, whatever. You'll get it too, like, don't worry, there's something, like, something to you look forward to. And I don't know, I think it's important. I think it's important to wait.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Um, what's, what, so the social media ban, I know, I sort of saw the headline of it, and because our kids are younger, it doesn't immediately impact us. So I didn't look into it. So what, what are they saying? It is banned for under sixteens?

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Um, and that, and that encompasses like all forms of social media, it's like.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  No, so what, so what will be banned on, and you say banned.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  And were you pleased?

• 22:51Speaker 02

  Oh, this is a big topic, isn't it? Was I pleased? Ah.

• 22:56Speaker 00

  Because can I just say from my perspective, a seven and a, oh sorry, eight and five year old. And I don't know whether you felt like this, Rob. I thought, I'd been thinking, this is coming down the hill, this is coming down the hill. When that came out, I was like, oh, thank God. I'm so glad my daughter's not five years older. Because I feel like that's going to save me somewhat.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Protect you.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Protect me. Because I felt like, you know.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  It's much easier to police like that, or, or that. And I know people go, well, people will just break the rules.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Of course, but that will happen anyway.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  You can't, you can't ban murder because people will just commit murder, exactly. So what. As an expert, that was my layman's feeling was, thank God.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  That's handy.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  With my, wearing my mum hat, I feel like you, Josh. But wearing my professional hat, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm an expert in anything, but wearing my professional hat.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  As clinical.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  In that case, we've wasted, we've wasted an hour and a half of our time.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  What am I doing here?

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Please don't tell me you're not an expert on the first expert one, we've done. It's the last thing we need.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  All right, I'm an expert. Um, I would say, I, I was disappointed. It's my, okay. So the thing, and this isn't to scare anybody, I'm really anti-fear mongering on this topic. I think there's a lot of that. A lot of like escalating of panic. And I'm like, that doesn't help anybody, like.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Having fear in your body as a parent does not help you make healthy choices, right?

• 24:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  So I think it's disappointing because what they've banned is certain apps. And that is not encompass like the scale of what social media looks like for kids.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  So one, they're gonna bypass it by using a different app, like.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  VPNs.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Also, tech moves much faster than legislation, so.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  It's more.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Not even, no, I mean, like, instead of using, uh, for example, instead of using Instagram.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  They'll use friends reunited.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  WhatsApp, yeah. Basically, friends reunited.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  So what you're saying is this is an excellent time to get in the market with a new social media app that isn't on the list.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  People doing exactly that.

• 25:02Speaker 00

  So it's just bad news.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  But they already exist as well, and kids know what they are, and so they'll just divert to something else.

• 25:09Speaker 00

  So what can you do about that?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  So I think the disappointment for me is that they really needed to. Put the onus not on us, the parents, or on the kids, because it feels like a lot of it is the kids.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  They needed to put it on the tech people and say, unless you create. You know, apps like this, following this guidance, we will ban them completely, like, just banned, like, we just don't let them exist. But they haven't done that, right? They haven't put that pressure on tech, because you can, you can create. Healthy, like, safe technology. It is possible. These, these are super intelligent people who create.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  You know, these incredible platforms. Of course, you can design them better, and you can design them safe by design. They're choosing not to, like, we need to be aware that they're doing this.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Because they're just doing Instagram under sixteens, where it's basically like, there's no likes, there's no, you know, and keep, and all the things.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Is there a world in which you could imagine a social media app you would let your teenager on?

• 26:07Speaker 02

  I think if they made it safe by design, I would.

• 26:09Speaker 00

  What do you mean by safe by design?

• 26:11Speaker 02

  So safe by design means any of that content would not be allowed on, like, at all. You would, but they allow it. We know this, right?

• 26:18Speaker 00

  But I would say that the problems go deeper than that, right?

• 26:21Speaker 02

  I mean, the problem.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  Which is that the whole way it's constructed.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  Is, is not the sheer way the apps work, the.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  It's a problem, a hundred, that's the problem. I mean, we need to be aware that that's the problem. So I think the ban is helpful in terms of. Changing social norms, you know, the whole, like, all the kids are on Instagram, that's obviously gonna, over time. And it will take years, but over time it will falter, like, your kids and my kids will never be on it. Fingers crossed. Do you know what I mean? Because they'll be like, it's not the norm.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  As well.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  The kids are not using it, so why would they be on it?

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  And what are kids gonna watch if they're not watching Rob's golf channel?

• 27:01Speaker 02

  I don't know. Good question. Louis?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Well, maybe it's a good, you know, it's just a guy trying his best to get better at a great sport.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  There's positivity on there.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  So I think it changes social norms, which is great, but I think it doesn't kind of, unfortunately for me and for you, for parents. It doesn't absolve us of having to teach our kids how to use it. So there was this, like, research that was done, and the data is in my book. And within like two and a half minutes of TikTok, boys are sent violent, violent pornographic, misogynistic content.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  And girls are sent things to do with their bodies, like beauty and, yeah, pro fitness.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Praying on the primal instincts of your worst personality traits.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  A hun, vulnerability. It preys on vulnerability. It doesn't prey on interest. Right? You're into golf? They're not gonna send you a golf video.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  They're gonna send you something that's like, are you vulnerable with this? Let, let me test it out.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Well, if you're vulnerable about something, there's more likely you're gonna watch it or click on it, because it's, oh, how can I solve this?

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Where actually, and it's that fear mongering.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  And kids, teenagers are much more vulnerable than adults, because as an adult, like you were saying, you'll do it, and you're like. Oh my God, it's serving me all this content, I don't really wanna watch it.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  You know, kids' brains are not like that. They, they are a lot more like, they're more impulsive, so they'll watch something and they'll watch it just out of curiosity, or even out of like. Distress, and they're like, I can't click away from it. Yeah, like a rabbit in the headlights. And so they're stuck, and so the algorithm goes, you like it, so then you just get more. And, you know, it's just, oh, it's such a minefield. And I think as a parent, you need to think the ban helps. And it's not a full solution.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  So you still need to be on it.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  Can't rest on your laurels.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  No, you can't. You have to keep having the conversation.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  It feels to me from talking to you, like, the, the kind of rules that you're, you're, in the episode one, you're talking about dialogue. Experiencing together, being a part of, you know, someone your child can talk to.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:01Speaker 00

  All these kind of things. That's kind of the golden area that you need to be in for this, because if you're trying to. Beat them in a fight of who controls the internet, they're clever than you and they're gonna win.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I think that is, that is the core of everything I talk about because it's true. And also I think when you have a teenager, they might not come to you. So I am gonna say this because it's important. I don't want you to feel like, oh my god, I've done something and my kid doesn't trust me.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  There's lot, if you think about being a teenager, there's lots of things where I'm not going to my mum and dad. Although teenagers these days are different from us. I meet lots of teenagers who are like, I went straight to my mum, you know, I'm like, oh my god, it's so gorgeous. So they actually have that relationship. So don't give up. And have a conversation with your teen, if you've got a teenager, about, I always say five people, but it could be three, it could be ten. Who are the people that you trust that you would go to if it wasn't me? Because as a parent, you need to know who are these people and can they be, you know, it might be family, it might be somebody's mum, somebody's dad, whoever. And I would say as adults, make connections with those people and say, if my kid comes to you, I'm completely okay with that. Like, I trust you, you know, have the conversation about, come to me if they come to you, but you know.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  It's really important because teenagers will, they'll often tell their best friend's mum rather than you.

• 30:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  And they're also not like, oh, the teenagers have this idea of these like, smoking, naughty, crazy kids. A lot of them are sort of scared and vulnerable.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  They're embarrassed. They don't engage you and you because they're too cool, they don't know, we hate you mum, it's often embarrassing, I'm ashamed.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  The hate thing is a ba, is a front.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Right? That's completely like, this is my kind of mask.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  Especially the grumpy teenager. I'm like, I actually love a grumpy teenager. Maybe I won't love it when it's my daughter, but I do love them. Because like underneath, they're so vulnerable and soft. And they're just kids. So often you need to see past it and not kind of, kind of jump on them immediately. Especially if they do something wrong, see something bad. Like I talk about this a lot. But if you wanna build that relationship of trust, like, don't, you know, feel like you have to put on a really hard consequence on your teenager. Cause something awful's happened. Actually be the person who goes, yeah, like, you watched something and I don't like it. Let's say it's porn, you know, I don't like that you watched it and this is why I don't like it.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  And if you're gonna do it, this is what I'd rather you did, or this is, can you keep talking to me? For example, you can't, you can't have your screen in your room. You can still be like the parent who goes, I get it, you're curious, you're interested, your mates are watching it. And I'm not giving you unfiltered access to it. Like if you don't have that conversation and they are able to think, oh, okay. We can communicate about it, we can set new rules, but you will listen to me. They're just gonna go and do it behind your back. Which is a bigger risk for me, because you don't know what they're doing.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  All right, Josh, we're going to switch things up and get into a game of guess the kid's slang in this special segment brought to you by Tesco Mobile. Now, I don't know about you, Josh, but I haven't got a clue what most of this means, so that means you have no idea either.

• 32:07Speaker 00

  Okay, I'll be honest, I often get these things completely wrong. Let's do this.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  This is a little while ago, but my kids did say a turn of phrase to me.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  And I, I try to be a little bit more current than you do.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  I'm a bit out of the touch because I'm forty, but my kid said skibbity toilet riz.

• 32:25Speaker 00

  So what?

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Skibbity toilet riz.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  She's Catman John.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  Great example.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  And I have no idea what skibbity, skibbity toilet riz is. I, I, I still don't know. I think it's more just like a gibberish that they say. I think riz is.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  It's charisma.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 32:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Is that what it's from? Charisma, he's got riz.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  He's got riz, charisma.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Is that actually what it's from?

• 32:45Speaker 00

  That is true, yeah.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  Ah, wow, wow, wow.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  You might do better than this. I've got a list here.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  Okay, go on.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Right, you might do better than this than I think. Right, okay. Stop glazing.

• 32:58Speaker 00

  Um, is this too like the normal use of glazing over? So I think it would be like, not listening, like just looking into the distance?

• 33:08Speaker 01

  No. It's slang for overly praising someone.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  See, glazing it too much, because a donut with a bit of glaze is nice. You've, you've improved the donut. Looks maxing.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  Looks maxing. That is like, um.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Looks maxing?

• 33:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's like making yourself look the best as possible on social media.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Yes, a slang for maximizing your looks.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  She's leng, they're leng, he's leng.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  Leng.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 33:36Speaker 00

  They're leng. They are just a great guy. Or girl.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Attractive or good looking.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  So you could say Josh is leng now after his skin routine and he's really looks maxing.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  He's, he's looks maxing and he's not close to leng yet.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  And finally, they are clapped.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  Exhausted.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  No, but I think that's a good, it's not right. Someone's clapped, they're clapped.

• 34:01Speaker 00

  They're the best because they just get so many claps.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  No, they're ugly.

• 34:05Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a shame.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Negative, isn't it? The thing is not understanding what your kids are saying makes it a lot harder to understand what's going on in their online world.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  Ask your kids what riz means isn't about being a cool parent. It's a great way to open up and chat about their, their online lives. These conversations help us to keep up, which helps to keep them safe. And if you need a hand starting them, the Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub is definitely worth a look.

• 34:31Speaker 00

  We, three people that talk, are talking from the perspective of none of us have got teenagers yet. And we talk about what we're gonna do.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:39Speaker 00

  What if I'm someone who's going, I've got a thirteen year old who's on these things. I think I've made a mistake with that, but that's tougher than saying to a seven year old, you're no, no longer having YouTube.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  To say to a fourteen year old, you're no, no longer having Instagram.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  I think you negotiate with them. And I think negotiation is what it is. As a parent, you can say, I think you're on it for too much. And this is why, or what I noticed. I always try and frame it not from like an emotional perspective. Talk about your emotion, I'm worried about you.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  You spend six hours on your phone in your room, for example. I don't, I don't like it. I don't know what you're doing on it. I wish you were spending more time with us downstairs, in the kitchen with me, whatever, reading a book, whatever, you know, name the stuff. And then say, really openly with them, what do you think is an okay amount of time for you to be in your room doing whatever you're doing? Okay? Negotiate. And often people go, no, because if I say that to my teenager, they'll say six hours. They won't. Like, I actually talk to teenagers and they often will say things like, I wish my parent was harder on me, genuinely.

• 35:47Speaker 00

  Do you think a lot of teenagers feel trapped by their phones?

• 35:50Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely. And actually giving them that, and allow, I talked about disappointment, but it's okay to say to your kid, six hours is too much, what does feel right? And if they say four, you, it's still a win.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  You know, it's a win for you and it's a win for them. And then think about it as you might expand those, you know, that two hours you've got back with your kid. Make it worthwhile. Don't just say to kids, go do something else.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Give them something that's worth doing.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Go to the driving range or something, or go wherever, not just, you know, or the park, yeah, just trying to think of things.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Don't just be like, keep yourself busy.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Or what's happening with them?

• 36:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, do something with them.

• 36:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, the Ryder Cup.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Stuff like that. But it doesn't have to be golf, I was just saying.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  But a hundred percent. Like, don't just be like, now busy yourself, because they won't. They'll be like, well, this is really boring. But if you make it worthwhile, like when you come off, we'll do this, you make it fun. Over time, what will happen was they'll, they'll start to sneak downstairs more.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Because there's fun going on.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  The stuff that's here is actually more valuable to me. So many teacher, teenagers, when they have, you know, they've had experiments where they like put their phones away, will say, it's been great. I've really enjoyed it. Like, most of them will say that rather than that was awful.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  I don't believe that I've ever, I don't think I've ever come off my phone happier than when I picked it up. Do you know what I mean? I always pick, I, it never satisfied. I never go, oh, that was good and now I'm done. You feel worse.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  You're never satisfied with it. I think that's true, because there's always something else on. It's like twenty four seven, every day of the year.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a to-do list that never ends.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  It never ends.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  So we're all dead.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  I think it's so important to teach our kids that there's, that our brains and bodies need rest and time away from tech. Like, because we haven't learnt that very well.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  No.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  And it's a hard lesson for us to learn, but when we do it, we feel better.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  But after feeling bad, it's an opportunity to do it together with our kids. If you're at that stage, you're lucky that it's all coming.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  Make a pledge with them. Make a pledge. You know, I pledge not, also not have my phone at night and like scrolling at bed, you know, or whatever it is. And make yourself accountable. So if your kid sees you go, uh, you're doing it now.

• 37:54Speaker 00

  But it feels like the conclusions from both episodes are really about connection, dialogue.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  I, I mean, it's like all of parenting. Like, don't, it's not about saying the right thing. It's about being with your kid and building a relationship. Which is, it's forever. I often think about this as a mum and it's daunting, but I want my kids to be in my life forever, not just until they're eighteen and they're off.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  I don't wanna be the parent who just gets a call on their birthday and Christmas. I want my kid to be like, something good happened to me today. Oh, it'll make me emotional. I'll pick up the phone and call my mum.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  It'd be great for the video.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  I'm very easy to tears. But I think, you know, I want them to be like, something good happened to me today. I'm the first person they wanna call, you know.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  How do you feel if you wasn't the first person they called?

• 38:40Speaker 02

  I mean, I'd be okay. What can I do? You can't make that choice, right? But me, me and my husband had this conversation, a hundred percent.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  You know, they get married, they have their own family.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  You're trying to make her cry.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  You are. I was gonna say, me and my husband had this conversation because.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  Sorry, that was really mean. I'm sorry.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  No, it's not.

• 38:57Speaker 00

  I'm only messing.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  My, um, me and my husband would not, I mean, here we go, would not call our parents first when something happens to us. I would never pick up the phone and call my mum. That's just not who I think will, will be there for me. I call my husband. And I'm his person too, which is like, I think that's magical, because you don't always find your person. You know, I do think as a couple, the question I always ask is, are, is this the person who will be there for you at your hardest time? And if the answer is no, there's a problem. That'll work with lots of couples, but you know, if, if you're like, this is the person who's always there for me when I need them the most.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  He's always there for me.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  And if, if the answer's no, there's a problem.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  There is, yeah.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  What I love about that is we've done sort of two episodes now on sort of online safety and the kids and devices and stuff like that. But someone listening to that, all of a sudden now questioning their entire relationship with the partner.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  That's what they're gonna leave with.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  And so I think for me, the core is always your relationship.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Like always. And I think if, as long as you focus on that, you're gonna mess up, you're gonna get things wrong. You're gonna, you know, let your kid watch something and then go, ah, I regret it.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  That's life. That's just parenting. Like, no one is a perfect parent and your kids don't need a perfect parent. I was gonna say the Sims thing. I love that example because yes, your kid can watch them getting at it under the sheets and still be okay. If you're the kind of parent who then sits there, talks to them, soothes them.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  My pleasure.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  The book is called Smartphone Solution.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  It's about building healthy habits with tech. That's what Smartphone Solution is about and how you can do that as a family.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  Brilliant.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Dr. Marta, thank you.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  I like that, Josh.

• 40:38Speaker 00

  I see that as a companion, Peter. I thought they were separate, but really, it's the same principles, it's the same kind of things, just taken on for different ages.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think it gave, it gave me a little bit of hope that there's an opportunity now to one, get a handle on my phone use as well as.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  The kid, and we can do it together as a family. I like the family pledge thing. You've got a phone now, well, you've got phones, no one's on their phones after seven o'clock or whatever. And the thing is, your journey to understanding your kids' online lives can start with something as simple as a chat. And remember, keeping up keeps them safe. Visit the Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub where Tesco Mobile have loads of tips on keeping you and your family safe online.