JIM CAVIEZEL | Pick the Right Fight. Stand on Principle

Most men know what they're supposed to do and still look for a reason not to do it. It's too risky, too costly, or someone with more credentials says it's a mistake. Today we're talking about how to make the hard call anyway. That means finding your "Michael Jordan talent," pairing it with a walk-on mentality, and putting your spirit first. We also get into programming your response before the moment arrives, choosing the right fight over the easy one, and why staying open-handed matters more than ever. My guest has stood on that line more than once. He turned down advice that would have protected his career so he could play Christ, nearly died twice in the years that followed, and built a body of work on characters who choose to get involved when they could stay out of it. His name is Jim Caviezel https://www.instagram.com/therealjimcaviezel/?hl=en. We talk about what dying taught him about fear, the moment he believes God called him to act, why he says he doesn't get the easy movies but the right ones, and what his new film Ghost Soldier says about a man stepping up to protect people who can't protect themselves. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - Opening 00:40 - Introduction & Living by Core Values 01:54 - Following Your Dream & Modern Culture 04:07 - Faith, Acting, and "Ghost Soldier" 06:10 - Open Hand vs. Fist Bump: Trust and Civility 08:45 - Navy SEAL Training & "The Passion of the Christ" 13:15 - Jim Caviezel's Near-Death Experience 17:47 - Jimmy Stewart, Legacy, and Paying It Forward 22:59 - Discovering Purpose & The Walk-On Mentality 29:31 - Standing Firm Against Hollywood Ideology 33:24 - The Lone Wolf Mindset & Feeding the Spirit 41:28 - Overcoming Fear: Lessons from Great White Sharks 46:54 - Authenticity in Action Cinema 50:44 - Lucifer, Saint Michael, and Spiritual Warfare 56:57 - Ryan Michler Shares a Personal Encounter with God 01:00:22 - "The Count of Monte Cristo" & A Man's Search for Meaning 01:04:34 - Legacy, Fatherhood, and Passing the Torch Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Most men know what they're supposed to do and still look for all sorts of reasons as to why they should not do it. Maybe it's too risky, or too costly, or someone with more credentials might say it's a mistake. Today, we're talking about how to make the hard call anyways. That means finding your quote unquote, "Michael Jordan talent," pairing it with this idea of a walk-on mentality, and putting your spirit first. We also get into programming your response before the moment arrives, choosing the right fight over the easy one, and why staying open-handed matters more than ever. My guest has stood on that line

• 0:41Speaker 00

  more than once. He turned down advice that would have protected his career, so he could literally play Jesus Christ, nearly died twice in the years that followed, and built a body of work on characters who choose to get involved when they could stay out of it. His name is Jim Caviezel, and today, we talk about what dying taught him about fear, the moment he believes God called him to act, why he says he doesn't get the easy movies, but the right ones, and what his newest film, Ghost Soldier, says about a man stepping up to protect people who can't protect themselves.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, and strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

• 1:44Speaker 00

  Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Michler, and I am so excited to be able to bring this conversation to you. I grew up watching a movie called The Count of Monte Cristo. A lot of you men probably did as well, and I am so honored to be able to have Jim Caviezel on the podcast today to talk about not only that movie, but other movies, his time in Hollywood, and how he is standing on principle when his career and his world often asks him to do something different. Now, before I get into that conversation, also want to talk about some really good people and good friends. That is my friends over at Montana Knife Company. I just reached out to the founder

• 2:29Speaker 00

  and CEO, his name is Josh Smith, and sent him a picture that one of my friends sent me. He just harvested his first deer, and he used a Montana Knife Company knife that Josh gifted to me and him to break the deer down. I sent it to Josh. He was so quick to respond. He said, "Thanks for sharing. That's amazing." These guys are doing incredible things, and their customer service, their attention to detail, and the fact that they're making their knives all 100% in America outside of Missoula, Montana, is a story worth sharing. And also, guys, it's a story worth investing in. You know, on the back of midterm elections,

• 3:10Speaker 00

  and believing in America, regardless of what side of the aisle you sit on, it's important that we invest in America, and these guys are doing it right. If you need a good knife in the field, in the kitchen, as an everyday carry, I've got my Montana folding knife right now in my pocket. I just broke down several deer on my hunt last week. I'm leaving in two days for another hunt that I fully anticipate using that knife again. Guys, look no further than Montana Knife Company and use the code ORDEROFMAN. It's all one word, ORDEROFMAN, at checkout, and you'll save some money when you do. All right, now, let me introduce you to my guest. As if you needed an introduction, his name is Jim Caviezel.

• 3:50Speaker 00

  He is an A-list actor known for plenty of roles that put his faith and conviction and sacrifice at the center. He played college basketball until an injury ended that path, and then he committed to acting and broke out in the movie The Thin Red Line. He went on to star in Frequency, Pay It Forward, of course, The Count of Monte Cristo, which I shared with you earlier. And then in 2004, he played Jesus in Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ, which was one of the highest grossing independent films ever made. And then, of course, he later starred in five seasons of Person of Interest, and in 2023, the box office surprise Sound of Freedom, which I'm sure a lot of you guys have listened

• 4:35Speaker 00

  to as well, or watched as well. But in his newest movie, Ghost Soldier, Caviezel plays Henry Fitz Fitzgerald. He's a former Green Beret and weapons developer, living quietly off the grid. When a powerful foreign corporation moves to take his hometown's land, he is forced back into action to defend his community. But Jim is a man who puts his money where his mouth is, and is a living reminder of the power of principle, as he doesn't and never has toe the line in a profession that bucks and alienates those who don't. Enjoy this one, gents.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  Jim, it's so good to see you. I was so excited when your team reached out, and I've actually been trying to get ahold of you, but your team reached out. I'm like, "Great, yes, let's do this, man." It's so good to see you. I'm glad you're on the podcast today.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Thank you very much. It's a pleasure being here.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  You know, it took a new movie, Ghost Soldier, coming out, which I've watched a little bit of, and I gotta tell you, I'm really excited about it. But even more maybe excited about the movie, like, I'm actually very curious how you operate, because you seem to be somebody who, I don't think you intend to buck the system. I think you're a man who actually just lives by his beliefs and core values, and I'm not sure that's as common as we would like it to be in Hollywood, but I could be completely wrong. So you tell me.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, if you look at the biblical stories, like, you know, David, kind of a different kind of guy growing up, and Moses, different kind of guy, you know, how, I don't think that's stopped. I think that it has continued. I think I've talked to a lot of men's groups, and I said, you know, you gotta really follow your dreams. Not to get too corny, but do you remember the movie Sound of Music?

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  The, that great song with the nun when she sing, "Climb every mountain or every stream, follow every rainbow till you find your dream, a dream that will need all the love you can give every day of your life, for as long as you shall live." That is what just brings me to tears when I hear that, and it burns in my heart. And I don't, if I'm not doing that, and what I'm not doing, if I'm not participating in stuff that makes my heart burn, it goes against that dream. And we've lived in a culture now where, you

• 7:31Speaker 02

  know, they've essentially castrated men, and I don't think any woman, real woman, would want that for, they weren't designed that way to be with a guy that is woke, which is a joke, you know? And, and so, you know, I go and hung out with Navy SEALs, and I didn't just hang out with them. I participated in a movie with them many years ago, with Ridley Scott, and he brought me in, and he said, you know, "You're basically a high-paid stuntman. Do you have any, you know, did you play any sports?" And I said, "Yeah, I

• 8:14Speaker 02

  played college basketball, and I really played." And, and there's a level there, a leveler when you get to water, especially tying your feet or your hands behind your back, and getting the surf torture and the hypothermia. But that led to The Passion of the Christ, being able to do something that physically you really can't do. You're doing it, but you want, you're gonna quit. And, and I was so connected from my heart, there's no way in hell that that is ever gonna happen. And didn't matter what the devil did, you know, where he's like, "I'm gonna take your career from you. I'll take all that from you. It

• 8:56Speaker 02

  doesn't matter. How about your life? I'm free to give. I'm okay with that, because I just believed that if I, I did my job, many people would come back to God. They would find God." And that's why I asked, you know, I asked them, you know, "Jesus," I said, "I don't want them to see me. I only want them to see you, and that's what you got."

• 9:22Speaker 00

  How do you, how do you square that? You know, you've got your new movie coming out, Ghost Soldier. And like I said, I've watched a little bit of it. How do you, how do you square that when you say, "Well, I don't want them to see me. I want them to see only you, God, Jesus Christ," with your...

• 9:42Speaker 00

  I'm not trying to diminish, and you can correct me if I'm using the wrong word choice here, but as a performer, as an actor, as you portraying somebody else, fictional or non-fictional, how does that tie into your vision of seeing God?

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Well, in this character, he is a guy that is hiding, creating, using his mind to create weapons of things you've never ever seen. You know, he was a special forces, but he's an Albert Einstein when he was, or Tesla when it comes to weapon systems, you know, one against hundreds, and he can win with this technology that he's using. But where he ties into God is that the people in the town are, you know, he's a lone wolf. He

• 10:39Speaker 02

  doesn't want to be seen or anything, but he has to come out because his heart is moved, and he has to defend, because they can't defend themselves like he can. And so, that's the good Samaritan in him. And we, in life now, you know, they've been trying to separate us. And that's another thing that I loved about this script, is that they have to come together. You know, when I'm in church now, everybody fist bumps, if that. If you're a good Samaritan, you can't fist bump a guy laying on the side of the road. You've got to reach out, open your hand, trust, Jesus, I trust in you, and lift him up. We got to go back to the open hand.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  I like that. I've always thought the, I mean, I, look, I fist bump, I probably have done it, you know, a dozen times in the last two days with buddies, but also, I do like that. I mean, there's, there's an element of civility, there's an element of reverence, I think, behind like, an actual handshake. Like, you can tell a lot by a person when you shake their hand. Do they do the limp fist? Do they like, try to like, dominate you when they shake your hand? Or can you like, and there's a lot to be said about energy, too. Can you feel their energy? What type of person this is when you shake their hand? And can that person actually look you in the eye? So I like that. I resonate with that.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  And there's an element of God there, which is, I'm, I'm, I'm not here to hurt you. I want you to trust me. I want, and that, and someone saying, I haven't shaken your hand in a while, and I keep it open, if that's, and he thinks, and then, okay, I guess I can shake your hand. And I just smile, look at him firm, and peace, and that's the Christ in us. The Christ that you saw in the movie is still here, because I didn't do it without him. We did it together. I'm, I'm, I look at myself really as the farmer. I go in, and you get this, you know, you've got a hundred acres, and you're by yourself,

• 12:45Speaker 02

  and you go, oh, this is gonna be hard. You gotta go in, and you gotta lift all those boulders out, rocks. Maybe you can get someone to help you, maybe you can't afford it. So you gotta do it your own. And just days and days of just pulling rocks out. But it's not done. It's still gonna get hard, because you gotta put all this shit in there. The manure, the stink, it's, and, and, you know, people will, you know, because you're going up, right? You're, you're not talking about your give up goals, like drinking and drugs and things. Most people say, hey, you know, good for you, giving up drugs. But if you're going up, going up in society, going up, they don't like to, they're not gonna encourage

• 13:29Speaker 02

  you in that, because you're, you're gonna find your dream, and they're not doing their dream. And then, put the seeds in, and then you pray. Why? Well, because I need rain, but not too much, you kill my crops. And I need sun, but not too much, you kill my crops. You know, so there's a, there's an open hand with God. Please, please, please help me. And it might happen, it might go wrong. But there, but Jesus, I trust in you. Something else comes along, because they started there, and then the acting career started. And I would never, ever dream that this, that this wasn't my dream. But, when

• 14:09Speaker 02

  our Lord came to me, he was like, look deep. If you, if you look at yourself deeply, you'll know that this is what you were born to do. And it was, it was, and he took me, you're gonna have to trust me. So when he took me to the US Navy SEALs, and we were in the water, that was my first introduction to hypothermia. And there was a guy on my right, and I love this man, Hashim Shalan, Hash, he's no longer with us anymore. And, but he was, you know, I look over at him, I go, how do you tolerate this? And he goes, well,

• 14:48Speaker 02

  we got a lot of contusions on our body. And you know, this, this, this cold salt water is gonna lift all this lactic acid out, and I'll be able to run. And, and then I, I won't, you know, quit, and I'll still be able to possibly fulfill my dream in being a Navy SEAL. I thought that was so beautiful. Well, anyway, I never forgot that when I was doing the Passion, I had my shoulder dislocated, and when they tied it up, it, it was, I was in such pain. And then I got a virus, and I can barely breathe. And, but it all played into the film. I would eventually be electrocuted. And, but there was a point where I got to

• 15:33Speaker 02

  feel like, well, looks like I'm not gonna make it. And, and at that moment, you know, you see the tears come out of the eyes, and it's like, man, it's been a good life. And, and when I watched the movie now, I weep, and my body's blue. I went far beyond everything I had to, you know, I had open heart surgery, I had two surgeries, including open heart. And, but I, I survived it, and I was able to, I was never connected to fear. I was connected to a love that's so deep that I, I'd die trying. And I really appreciate

• 16:15Speaker 02

  the Lord for allowing me to do that. But the thing was, what was the whole thing? Was it about making a big bag of money? No, I didn't make a big bag of money on that movie. I suffered tremendously. What I, what I was able to, I was able to find the, the deeper meaning of life, my search for meaning, my purpose. And I had never stopped. And so, look, taking that and going into this movie, Ghost Soldier, this guy is a remnant of that. He has that. He, and a lot of these guys I worked with, you know, they had this St. Michael, the Archangel medal, you know? And I said, what is that? And they, they said,

• 17:00Speaker 02

  well, it's better than my lucky rabbit's foot, you know? And, but it, they weren't, a lot of them aren't even as connected to, you know, the relationship that most Christians would say. But allow for this guy, you know, to figure out where he's gonna go in his life, because they sure, certainly taught me something, which is, they ain't gonna leave you in a foxhole. They're there, they're gonna fight. And that, that was me. That was a big part of me. Now, and that's this character, Henry Fitzgerald, he's a former

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Green Beret, a, a, a operator at a very, very high level that develops these weapons. His idea is that even outnumbered, we can beat you. That he ultimately has the ultimate stone that took down Goliath, and he is that stone.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  Jim, do you feel like, when you were talking about some of the challenges that you've been through, through, through your life and the various roles you've played,

• 18:12Speaker 00

  you kind of alluded to this, is, is death, physical death, something that you fear? Is it something that, on the opposite end of the spectrum, that you're very excited or hopeful for? Or are you neutral? Like, where do you fall on that spectrum of your relationship with death?

• 18:28Speaker 02

  That's a great question. I've actually experienced it. I, I, I died. After the Passion, I went in for open heart surgery. I came out, and we had a malfunction. And I'm, right here, that spot right there on my heart, broke, and I was dead. I didn't have to breathe anymore. And I knew I was dead. I felt it happen. And it was just so simple, how quick.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Jim, can I stop you? Can I just stop you? Because I'm curious, when you said you felt it happen, physically or spiritually, like, I'm very curious about that, too. Sorry, keep going.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  I felt the break, right here. And, and this is where I think that the, it's like the entry of where the, the spirit went into the heart, that Christ and I were one, and it was right at this, this spot, right there. It broke. And I was in great pain. They had, after the surgery, I didn't have the, I needed more opiates to kill the pain. And literally, I just, it was like an eggshell. It's so quick. It was like, it was like taking an

• 19:51Speaker 02

  egg and just cracking it open. And it just cracked, and, and the yolk came out. I was dead. And I was, you know, as I'm talking to you, I'm seeing you, I see all of them come in the room. Now, what I feel around me, I'm not leaving my body. My body is right there, but I, I was dead, and I, I was very well aware that I did not have to breathe anymore. I had no need to breathe. I wasn't suffocating, nothing. It was, and the, the, the next part of it was, is I felt the most peace and the most love around me. Every, it

• 20:32Speaker 02

  was like, nothing, nothing could scare you. When I went into surgery, I was scared. I, I had, my brother-in-law at the time was the offensive coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys, and I had a Dallas Cowboys shirt on. And we were going in, we're going, walking.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Going down into this room, I was doing Person of Interest at the time. And this was, I, I, first surgery was in nine, second one was 14, May 13th, 2014. That was the big one at Cleveland Clinic. They saved my life. And, um, uh, but I had, while, when I was going into surgery, I had, I had that game face look on. I was really, you know, I was scared. I, I was calm, but I was very, I was scared. But, um, but I, I trusted, uh, Jesus. I knew if I didn't get this done right then, I wasn't gonna make it.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  And, you know, um, it was, I almost ran out of time right there, but he extended my life. And when I, when I saw people come running in the room, they had that fear in their eyes. I could hear the horn going off. And that, I could, you know, so this is where you hear. But when you're here, you hear, you just hear everything, but it's not necessarily have to be through your ear anymore. Cause it's, you're not, this is just a, these are just tools.

• 22:08Speaker 00

  It's a vessel, right? It's a, it's a medium.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  That's correct. And now, now the, but the soul is there. I knew I was dead, but I'm still looking through what I think are my eyes. But what happened is, is, um, uh, they, later on, I asked them, I, you know, I talked to them about it. And they said, your eyes were up and you were dead. And we knew you were dead. But I don't, I'm looking at you, just how I'm looking at you when I'm dead, which is, you know, probably like that.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  I was just looking at you just like this. But they, they saw the dead man looking at them. And they, uh, they brought me back. And so I went through that. And I, I know that, um, I look at it like someday, when I die, there's a, you know, you have investments. You have an annuity, you know, you invest, cause someday, you know, uh, uh, you won't be that young guy you were. And you think life's gonna go on forever. And hopefully you have a retirement or something, right? And I know the money that continues to make money while you're not, you're doing something else.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Is it like if you have, if you have an apartment complex, you pay that off and eventually just money just keeps coming in. Imagine dying and, and you have an annuity like the Passion. And Jimmy Stewart did a movie called It's a Wonderful Life. That is an annuity for me. He helped feed me and I got to spend time with Mr. Stewart at his house. I met him when I was a waiter and he, uh, he did a movie that, uh, I don't have a, one of my movies over the mantle. I have his film, It's a Wonderful Life. It's on my, I never took it down after Christmas, years ago. I just kept it up.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Um, he flew 26 missions over Nazi Germany. He just won Best Actor. And he wanted to serve his country, fighting one of the greatest evils that ever was. And he dumped, um, 26, 26 flights. He dumped, dumped mass munitions over Nazi Germany.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  I didn't know that. I had no idea.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. He flew the, uh, uh, Liberator, um, double-tail wing in the back. A lot of people thought he was in the B-17. And, um, he, um, he was the head of every wing command. And one of the hardest things to be on a wing command is you have to go into quiet, silent. United States, we did all our missions during the, the day. The Brits did it at night. They didn't have as many warplanes as we did. So we went in the day. And the problem is, is that when you are flying, everybody has to remain quiet.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  But when the Luftwaffe come through, or you have an 88 gun that hits, blows a wing off, the plane goes down. And there's eight guys per plane. You hear the screaming. And that's what he heard most of his life.

• 25:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. Wow.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  So when he died, uh, I was, uh, I was very close, uh, I went to see him, uh, at his house, um, in Beverly Hills. I was, just got the Thin Red Line. And, um, I talked to the maid and, uh, I gave him a card. And I said, you know, I'm doing this movie, The Thin Red Line, and my life is taking off. Thank you for everything you, you know, uh, that, that your encouragement. He told me to make good movies and I did. And so those people kind of pass it on to you.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  But I always imagine when he died, I was filming with Sean Penn in The Brick, uh, in, uh, in The Thin Red Line. And we were doing the Brick scene. Hey, I think it was like July 7th or 8th, somewhere in there, uh, 1997. And, uh, um, and, and we, uh, so he passes away. And I can just imagine Jesus saying, you did, I know you think maybe this movie or It's a Wonderful Life was your greatest film ever. What you did with this boy, I'm gonna show you what he's gonna do. We need to pray for him. And that man is attached to all of the souls that came through me.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  And that's how we help each other along the way. And I'm just, you know, a movie I did a long time ago, uh, pay it forward. You know, I'm just trying to pay it forward for, for other souls and that. And when we tie into that deep, deep spirit, uh, of that dream, as I go back to this Sound of Music. Um, that, that's when it burns so hot, your eyes get sweaty, you know? It's so hot. You, when you get into that place, you ain't afraid of anything.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  Hmm. Man, just a quick break from the conversation. I hope you're enjoying it. I think you are. I am. But I want to take a quick second, because here's part of what I'm taking away from the conversation with Jim. The man who makes a difference in the world usually isn't always the most talented guy in the room. He's the one who chose to get involved, when it would have been easier to stay on the sideline. And that's what our free series called The War Room is all about. This is our live event series where we take the ideas you hear on this show and we put them into work in your own life. Your marriage, your kids, your business, and of course, the man that you look in the mirror at every day.

• 28:11Speaker 00

  No theory, no fluff, no BS. You're gonna get real frameworks, real conversations, and a room full of men who expect more from themselves and won't let you settle for less either. This is entirely free. It's something I do every month. We've got one coming up, November 18th at 8:00 PM Eastern, called Winter is Coming, which is a metaphor for hardship that you'll inevitably face and how to prepare yourself right now, so it doesn't cripple you when it comes up. Uh, most of the guys in, in the world will hear an episode and a conversation like I'm having with Jim, and they'll nod along, and they'll bob their head up and down, and they'll agree with things that we're saying.

• 28:52Speaker 00

  And then they'll change nothing about their life. So if you're done being that guy, or you've never been that guy, then join us in The War Room. Head to orderofman.com/warroom. That's orderofman.com/warroom. And, uh, we'll get you synced up, we'll get you RSVP'd, and then we'll get you access to The War Room on November 18th at 8:00 PM Eastern. And hopefully I'll see you in the room. For now, let's get back to it with Jim. How did you, I mean, you, you had mentioned earlier that, that acting wasn't, wasn't a dream of yours. It wasn't your, your initial path. I mean, you played college basketball, basketball, correct? College basketball?

• 29:36Speaker 00

  Um, and then I think The Thin Red Line was your, if I understand correctly, was your breakout role. I, I know, I think your breakout role, from, from where I sit, was The Count of Monte Cristo. That, that's from where I am. Um, but then you met Jimmy Stewart, obviously a, a early mentor of yours. Like, how did you actually get into film and acting and Hollywood? And how did that deviate from what you thought you were going to do?

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Well, I I applied to, uh, while I was playing college basketball. Uh, I I went to three different high schools and so, you know, I remember getting like a D in math. And then I took it the same class in college and I got an A in it. And, uh, I realized that I I needed to, um, how that I had like dyslexic kind of, you know, stuff. Uh, ADHD, TV, I mean, I had whatever it was. Figure out.

• 30:36Speaker 00

  All all the abbreviations, right? All the all the letters. You had all the letters.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  But I was given a level of of intelligence. If I just gave myself a chance, I realized that, you know, I I didn't have the best short term memory, but I had a photographic long term memory. And and and and I would start to, you know, kind of educate myself and a lot of things, you know, I found that what I thought was really interesting. You know, uh, might not be too interesting to the people that I'm I'm talking with. But if you hang in there over time, you start to, you know, develop like a good wine. And, uh, um, I I was very lucky to my wife, Carrie.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  I've dated probably five girls. All of them would have married me if I was wealthy and famous.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  They all were. Of course.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  That none of them did because they were like, you're gonna be a bum.

• 31:37Speaker 00

  You're a loser. Yeah, you're a loser.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  Like, oh, he's he's gonna fail, you know? Uh, he's not, he's he's dreaming in the clouds, but, you know, so I at some point I, you know, cried out to God and asked him what, you know, help me, please. And, um, I was in a movie theater and I had a little miracle where a presence came in the theater was God. And, um, and I felt that peace and that love like I did when I was dead. And so I he and it was as if I was his only child. So that really was amazing that that God God loved me that much that he knew me that well.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  I could I I had that experience. One of the greatest moments of heaven that I've ever experienced in this life. And he didn't waste.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  What movie were you watching? Do you remember?

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was watching the movie Ghost.

• 32:33Speaker 00

  Really?

• 32:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was right nineteen ninety.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  And I had my basketball on the left. And I was, you know, training and I had I had ankle surgery, so I was rehabbing that and everything, but I was. And I and I the presence came in and it was love and then peace. And then the voice said, I'd like you to be an actor. And then, so I I didn't know anything about agents or managers or anything, but.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  Had you done any acting, like any drama or commercials as a kid, like any acting at all?

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was in junior high. Long story short, there was a play, it was a Christmas play.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  And there was a, uh, it was a Christmas, nobody, none of the guys wanted that role because it was so many lines and it was, you know, I I I didn't want to do it. And then the the principal and the music teacher kind of rode me. I'm sure they probably thought something that this kid might have something, but I didn't see it.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  And, uh, so I did the I did the play and there was a a part in the play where there was this song or there was a, uh, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. And, uh, all that stuff was just memorized. Just memorized and something happened in that moment where I just turned to everybody. I was supposed to say it to the actor and I just wanted to fill them in of of why he's my shepherd. And the whole place was bawling, crying, you know, I was just a little kid. And I I it was like a a voice from God just speaking through me.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  I remember not not even thinking anything I did was interesting. Afterwards, people were like, he should be an actor, he should be a priest. Two things I said to the teacher, I don't want to be a priest and I do not want to be an actor. I want to be an NBA basketball player.

• 34:38Speaker 00

  I just want to play basketball. Exactly, because you're a young man.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  So that's what that's what happened. That was the first time that was I just thought was a fluke.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  You know, or something and then you and it's not something I, you know, how it was, the gift was already there. But I had to, um, I was too part of this. I and I tell a lot of people, first, ask God what you're supposed to do in your life. That what is my purpose? If if you have a a great saints were purpose driven life, I'm doing my purpose. But I did not think that I was supposed to do this. This wasn't reasonable to me. There wasn't, it was like, it was Pike Dreams, crazy dreams, like. This is what but it but it was what I was supposed to do.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  So I look at like Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was born to play the game of basketball. He was born. He's the greatest player that ever was. Michael Jordan. You you need to find your Michael Jordan talent. So that's your purpose. But Michael Jordan is what people don't realize. I know, uh, one of his teammates. Michael Jordan wasn't just gifted at being an incredible talent. He had one other gift that most people don't know. He was the greatest walk on mentality. He was, I I everything I got, everything, everything to be a walk on. He was a perfectionist. So when you take greatest gift meets walk on mentality,

• 36:15Speaker 02

  that becomes something lethal.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  And that that that's kind of how I I went went about it. So now what would take me away from what I'm supposed to be in this business? Don't do the Passion of the Christ. Uh, don't this film Ghost Soldier. No, no, it's too much.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Who tells you that, Jim? Who who are the people that say those things? You don't have to be specific, but like, is there a contingent of people who are like, eh, too risky? Like, who is that?

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Well, I've kind of gone to the bridge too far. Well, I'll I'll give you an example. I I did a the Passion. I came back and I go into a room and there's several of the people of this business around. And and I was a young actor at the time. But it was after the Passion and I wanted to share with them how incredible this movie is going to be. And they would go, oh, that's that's really nice, Jim. That's that's great. I I know. I know you think that you're just you're you're dumb, stupid and maybe they mean it so much more than you. Because we know it was three dead languages and we know that it's stupid.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  And and and so you have a Noah's Ark. And you're an idiot. You just built this boat. Okay, that's what it was. Coming in, I had this big boat. It was the Passion. And they were laughing and they were joking and it was like, you know, good, good, good job. Because we know in the media that you're kind of, and so we wanted to redirect you to other movies. And those movies are gonna win Academy Awards. And if you're smart, you'll, uh, so you you'll, uh, you you'll get back on your the the the dream that we have for you. And I said, no, no, something much bigger than that. I wasn't going to

• 38:10Speaker 02

  to adhere to what what they wanted for me. I knew, I know, I know how to be famous. I know how to do that. I know I look at your shows, I study acting. You know, and I think they were like, you know, keep your stuff shut up, don't private. Don't talk about any of this religious uh, garbage. And and I said, yeah, but, um, I like the scene in Mel Gibson movie. When he, uh, they they ask him in Braveheart, they said, where are you going? He says, I'm going to pick a fight.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  Hmm, that's the best. That's one of the best lines ever of all time, for sure. I'm gonna pick a fight.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  I could pick. Don't be afraid to pick one, man.

• 39:00Speaker 00

  If it's a righteous one.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, that, of course, I mean, you have good and evil, you know, if it's your if it's your ego, that would be a bad one. Yes.

• 39:10Speaker 00

  Right, right. There seems to be a growing contingent of.

• 39:17Speaker 00

  Um, I don't, I don't know if this term resonates with you, but we'll just use the term because this is what people say like A-list celebrities, you know, I, I would put you in that category. I would put people like Chris Pratt in that category. I put individuals like Rob Lowe in that category who just came out with a trailer for his newest movie, The Confession, I believe is what it's called, where it seems that there's a Mel Gibson, of course, as well, a growing contingent of A-list actors, celebrities, um, really railing against what we would generally consider the Hollywood ideology. Would you agree with that?

• 39:57Speaker 02

  Seems to be, seems to be more, um, coming out, but I think that you will understand is that I didn't do it because they're doing it.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Right, agreed.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  You have to be a lone wolf. You really, because, um, I remember when we were doing the, the, the, the training and they were doing the BUDS, uh, training in the, in the film. And I would ask them like, how did you know, um, you know, when you were making it through this, uh, he says, if you get attached to somebody and they, they start getting that thousand yard stare, when it, you can almost feel that, you know, when you see them eating in the chow hall, my mindset is I'm gonna eat, I'm gonna go back out and I'm gonna get back on obstacle course and, or take the log and move it over and

• 40:53Speaker 02

  boom, do all this stuff. And you can see there in their eyes, they've got that long distance and he's gone. And if you're attached to him, because you, you meet him, you maybe came into the fleet with him and then he, you go to BUDS together and, and all of a sudden they get into that point, you have to be willing to let him go.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Meaning he's, that individual is met, is the thousand yard stare means he's mentally tapped out, which means physically he will be soon.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  You can see it. And about 120 guys are going in and there's only probably going to be 19, 20, maybe 25, usually less, they're gonna make it through. You, you have to be at a level where, um, you know, you're, this is your dream and you're, the meaning of what you're, where you're supposed to go. And, uh, you should have started probably earlier, you know, working on things like start eliminating things, uh, the television, the things that, anything that programs you outside that and start like, I get my Bible and I start reading

• 42:01Speaker 02

  it, pondering David. Once I got that picture in my head and I'm going through the hell that I'm going through, the biggest difference between me and what they were going through is this, know that, that they're, they're not preparing me for war, but I was, God was preparing me for a different war. I did not have a SEAL instructor. I was my own SEAL instructor. I was alone for 10 years. I knew that, I, I, I didn't want to get up in the morning, many, many, many mornings, uh, especially when I got into Juilliard and Juilliard, uh, reneged their agreement with me. Uh, my dream was over and my manager

• 42:42Speaker 02

  called me and my acting teacher said, you don't need Juilliard. I wrote a goal, uh, four years on my, uh, calendar and I, I, I got up every morning at 5:30. So that was the first thing. At first was on my knees and it was a spirit. Spirit first. Spirit is the most important. It's a nuclear reactor. It, it, it allows your physical and mental capabilities to do things that are beyond everything, but the spirit has to be fed or the mental and the physical, they go, they go off. Most actors just do the mental and physical. I, I, I worked on the spirit and the spirit was always with God, always engaging, everything, every day and every way through the grace of God, I gotta get

• 43:26Speaker 02

  better and better. So I would go to mass. I had a mass at like 6:30 in the morning at St. Monica's. I was there on my knees. Man is never so great as when he's on his knees in front of God. And that, the night in my mind, I, I, I had a vision of a, of a night. I had a, when I first came into the business, I had a dream where Jesus was holding me, don't worry, I'll protect you. But then when I got to Thin Bed Line, I had another vision and it was Jesus, me holding Jesus, the Lamb. And in any moment in front of my friends, I could kill him and then feed my friends and, and, and go in the wrong

• 44:04Speaker 02

  direction. And I didn't, I protected him. So we were always together and, and then, so early on I had nothing and then I had too much. And so I was just here. So when they say, oh, you're a God, I was like, no, I'm just right here. When you're low, no, I'm just right here. And so I was able to maintain and, uh, and, and, and keep the ego in check because that really starts to rot you. We all know the stories, uh, of people that were great, but you're also going to be called very nasty names when you don't,

• 44:47Speaker 02

  uh, when you go in that direction. And, and in 2004, uh, when the movie came out, I thought, well, wait until you see this. We had to wait two years, you know, after we finished in 2002. And

• 45:02Speaker 00

  Which movie was this, Jim?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Passion.

• 45:04Speaker 00

  Passion, got it.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  Came out. And look, it's, it's the same thing with Ghost Soldier. You know, wait till this film comes out because the film is, it, it's not just a, a, a movie where, um, I mean, you'll see it when, when you watch it. I, I never tell people, oh, you gotta, I mean, I want you to go see my film, like I want you to see The Passion, like I want you to see Count of Monte Cristo or Frequency or, or Person of Interest or, or Sound of Freedom. These are all mega hits, but they're great because we, we did the work, we worked on the man's search for meaning in the story. So many facets to it. Everybody's

• 45:49Speaker 02

  at a different level, different time, a different, because we're all different makeup and it's going to touch different people. But I think for men and their sons, because this man protects this boy in this, in this film, using this technology, but he chooses to do the hard thing, which is get involved. But to him, he wouldn't sleep well at night if he didn't do the right thing. I felt the same way on The Passion. If I turn this down, I will make the worst mistake of my life. My lawyer and I, we would get up in the morning, Frank Stewart, great, great man, he's no longer with us, but I met him while I was

• 46:30Speaker 02

  training for, with the Ridley Scott movie. And, uh, I didn't know how to swim. I, I, I mean, I swam around when I was a kid, but I had to learn freestyle, butterfly, all that stuff. And I did. Um, and, and, but Frank and I would get up in the morning, he was my lawyer, and we'd go down to the ocean and it's freezing cold. And part of me was like, oh, God, I hate this man. I can't, what am I doing? But, but I was challenging that thing in me because I kept saying, when you're finished with this swim, you're gonna feel like gazillions of dollars. Your value's gonna go through the roof. That, and that's

• 47:13Speaker 02

  what I'd focus on. But I knew the pain was coming, but I was just, this is great training and I, I will continue to do that. And he would walk down there and we'd sit there and I go, geez. He goes, what? I said, well, you know, doing this Passion movie. He goes, look, man, you're gonna have a great career. Whether you do this movie or not, it's not, it, it's neither

• 47:35Speaker 00

  It's not a deal breaker. Right.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  You, you're gonna be great. So, but there was something deep in me and he goes, I think this is what you, this is what he said. When you go back and turn around and you go, I threw away one of the greatest gifts I ever gave. I, I, and I knew that if I took this, I probably wasn't gonna make the money, the power. They were gonna say things about me. They're gonna say, stay away from him. He's not popular. That stuff still is out there, you know, we learn that in school when it's little kids who's popular or not. They're usually not the greatest people. They're not. They, they live within, they're popular within their culture and it's crap. But if you want the dream, and I did, I went

• 48:21Speaker 02

  for it. And that right there, that was the decision before I went into that ocean. And that was in the winter, I remember because you get brain freeze for about 10 minutes. Then you, then your head, anyone who knows that about this, this is all true, they'll go, he's real deal. Then your head gets hot. You get, head gets hot. And I'd always, I remember too, when we were swimming, You know, there's dark waters down below and you know, the mind goes, what if there's a great white shark? Or anything like that?

• 48:52Speaker 00

  That's what I'm terrified of, for sure.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing. I, I sit there and I, and I, I say, Holy Spirit, God, I would say, God be with me. Holy Spirit, fill me. Jesus love me. God be with me. Holy Spirit fill. And it, it put this uh, protection. And the other thing too, is when I was with the SEAL teams, they told me, look, if you ever get bumped, a, a great white usually will always bump you first. But you have to pre-program it in your head, what you're gonna do. Now I said, what would you do? Oh, I'd swim for the shore and you just became food for that great white.

• 49:25Speaker 00

  Right. You run, they chase.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  You're saying, hey, I'm chum. Come and get me. Come and, and he will eat you. You have no chance. So you have to pre-program in your brain, in your heart, really. And, and then your brain tells it what to do. So it's first tier. So you have to be swimming and you're just calm. And when that bump occurs, you attack it immediately. Now you might say, oh my God, what am I doing? I'm taking on a, a 4,000 pound fisher, you know? But you reap, and he immediately goes, oh, he's a predator like me. I must go. So you just saved your life.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  Have you ever been bumped?

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Never been bumped, but I've been down in the cages. In South Africa, I went down.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  How was that?

• 50:09Speaker 02

  And they always come up and they try you every single time. We, we would throw out.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  It was a great white? Is that what, is that what you saw?

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Great whites. And some of them are white sharks. They're big, but they're not great. Now the great ones, I mean, we're talking about when they open their mouth up, you can swim inside. And you, and whole, I mean, he could just swallow you whole. They're that big. It would be like looking at a Brahma bowl, a little bit bigger, fatter. And, and they're, they're just, you, you can't believe what's coming at you. The, and even when you're in that cage and, and uh, they are uh, um. I've learned so much about, about them, but let's say when you throw a head out there.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  He will come out and he'll bump it, swim away, come around, and then you just keep playing like a dog. And eventually he will come from, from about, from down below and just come up and take it from you. But they will always bump every time. So a lot of people that you, you know, you hear, oh, he was uh, eaten alive by shark or whatever we found is. He probably swam or he or she swam away, splash, splash, splash. When you splash, splash, splash, what are you doing? He has all these senses.

• 51:33Speaker 00

  Activating all that.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  You're exciting him. And if you were to, but you have to pre-program that in your head. You have, from here. And now, do you, do you ride motorcycles at all?

• 51:47Speaker 00

  No, no, I mean, a couple of times, but it's not, it's not a thing I've done much of at all.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Okay. Here, okay. So here's what a Navy SEAL would teach you if you were going through class. You'd see a guy uh, coming and he comes out of the airplane and he goes to his death. He died. Why am I showing that to you? I'm showing that to you so his mistake now is your mistake and you don't live what he did. So you never make the same mistake he did. He did not pack his chute properly. If you take care of your equipment, your equipment takes care of you. If you are riding your motorcycle. And someone is inside your zone, he's already hit your bumper. You have to, in your mindset.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  It's, it's very much like a basketball. I don't play where the guy is. I play where he's going to be. I'm gonna dunk that ball and when he comes in, he's gonna meet it. If I'm a quarterback and I, um, I'm sitting there, I throw the ball where you were by the time.

• 52:53Speaker 00

  You're passed.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  The ball gets to you, you're already gone.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  It's like a Wayne Gretzky quote, right? Play where it's going to, where the puck's going to be.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  There you go. Or the Soviets, Soviets actually started that a long time ago. Where they were doing the, you know, figure eight and circle. Cause they're, the guy that created the Soviet uh, um, uh, hockey. The, they used to be in the Canadian would be like a line. Gordie Howe would be sitting here and he'd decide to hit that guy or that guy essentially. So one-on-one, Gordie Howe would be a better, or Wayne would be a better hockey player. But then, once you start to add two, the, it starts to lean more towards the Russian side. And especially three, cause they play, they're playing like this. And, and a lot of the hockey now is, this is what you see. Um, so.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  I, I uh, as a, as an actor, uh, or filmmaker. Um, because as an actor, you, you get better, you get better. And then you start to go, hmm, I would put the camera here. Why don't we do this? I've, cause I've seen that before. Why not? Well, because I, I don't wanna be like them. I wanna do something differently. So you look at Ghost Soldier. And I said, there's an element to this guy. And this is a guy that, he has to come out. Of where he came from and to meet humanity from God, to risk everything he has to save them. What do I have to offer? I have a technology.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  And I also have a deep sense of probably, you know. A, a fatherhood, a brotherhood to protect, to, to, to, and, and, but does he know God the way? I know him? No, but he's on his way there. There's something there. And that's what makes a film, the difference between, wow, look at those explosives that are going off in front of me. And just leaning back and watching a movie. Or being like this, watching film like I, like you would have been in Monte Cristo. People thought.

• 55:08Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  That film was, there were about three swashbucklers that came out before that. They were terrible. They were just touching swords. You know, doing this, just dumb. You don't fight that way. And our film was, okay, let's go into fencing training, you know, it's boring, boom, everything. Um, learning how to do that. And Guy and I spent enormous, enormous amount of hours doing that and developing our own style, our own feel.

• 55:37Speaker 00

  The dynamic between you two was like, I mean, it's, it's, it's one of my favorite movies. Like it's, it's incredible to see. To see the dynamic between you two, to see what you've done, to see how, but it also underscores. Like, I'm not interested in cheap thrills. Like, cheap thrills are easy from, from where I sit. Like, I'm, I'm not saying it's, it doesn't cost money. It, it doesn't take thought or any. But like, I don't want cheap thrills. I want something that's compelling, which I think is why your movies do so well is because men are like. Yeah, this is compelling. Like, I'm inspired. I walk away being a better human being after watching a film that you, that you're in.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  They, you know, a good cook, somebody, but my mother-in-law made me a nice bowl of chicken soup. And I tasted it and she goes, needs more salt. And I go, yeah, just a little bit. You know, just a little bit. Um, you know, you, when you're looking at it and, and, and feeling. I, I, it's, there's a, again, the, you have the uh, story of um. Of the heart and then you have the mental, the physical. I try to think of those three things. Ment, if it was a pyramid of success. You know, um, John Wooden, I would say that the first has gotta be the, the, the heart.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  And um, one of the things, you know, guys that I worked with, um, always, a lot of them had the St. Michael medal on. And I said, that's kinda cool. I think he would have that. And then uh, uh, Chris Pappasidero, who's a Green Beret. Wrote the script and I knew immediately this guy was a real operator. You could tell. A, just, and, and there was something there. I mean, we're talking about professional writers. And they wrote scripts and he wrote it and it was just on a whole other world. And um, and I know guys, he knows guys and he wears the Michael medal. And I said, I think that should be in the story somehow.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  And then Randall Wallace came in, who wrote Braveheart. Randall's a good friend.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  He's been on the podcast. What an incredible human.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a great dude. I love him. But I think he has the same kinda feel. Um, that, you know, I was, I was looking for and pulling a guy out and uh, of his. Um, lone wolf-ness to engage with, you know, helping a kid. But his father was killed, someone who I'd served with. And so it forced me to make a decision and, and uh, and we're in that.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  A moment right now, you know, and um, and Michael the Archangel is a great, is a great understand, you know, this is an angel that was a lower ranking angel that how it went was God had the most beautiful angel, Lucifer, I've read some of the traditions of him. He was unimpressed by God, Lucifer, he didn't defy him, never did anything, but he just unimpressed, the rest of the angels were just so overjoyed with God. So God brought him closer that he will exemptify his light into the universe, such like a child's heart,

• 59:04Speaker 02

  so that he would know how much he's loved. So, so he was the most beautiful angel, the angel of light, Lucifer, Lucent, and then-

• 59:15Speaker 00

  That's interesting. I never made that correlation. Interesting.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so then, then, uh, then this, the tradition goes is that when God was going, he revealed his plan to the universe, you know, that uh, there's going to be stars, and what are those? And then I'm gonna make a planet, Earth, and what it have water, what are, what are fish? They were fine with all of that. What are, what are, what's a four-legged creature, you know? Oh, okay, we're fine with that. But then I'm gonna make man out of my own image. Whoa, what is that? Who are we to you? If, and, and I will send my son into the world and they, to, to save them when they go astray. And Lucifer now

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  is like, they say pride go before the fall. Actually, it was envy. He envied him. You have something closer than me. And this is where he would say, and it goes on further, but I'm just summarizing, he says, he envied it. And he said, I will not, non-serv him, I will not serve. And this lower ranking angel, think of David, right? David, his own father didn't think much of him. He had, I don't know, eight sons and, and dressed them up to the dines when Nathan goes in and says, one of your sons is gonna be the head of Israel. This prophet Nathan tells him this. So he goes in, I think it's Nathan, maybe it was the wrong prophet. Anyway, I'll be corrected by that. Anyway, where's David?

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  He meets in, all of the sons, he says, none of them will be the head of Israel. Maybe it's Jeremiah. Anyway, he goes, uh, he, um, he says, oh, he's some sheep herder out back. So Michael's like that lower ranking angel, and he comes up out of nowhere, and he stands be, be, you know, to the greatest angel there ever was at the time. And he says, you won't talk to my father this way. And, and David does the same thing. When Goliath, this beast, you know, the giant, and, you know, the Philistines, every, they had taken the giant, you know, cliff here, and they were hanging out there, hoping that Philistines

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  would disperse, but they wouldn't. And, and Goliath basically says, I know how to get them out. If they love their God, they'll defend him. So he comes out, and he says, your God sucks a big one, and just, just, and David freaks out, the 16-year-old kid, he goes up to his leaders, tells them they can't do this. He says, whoa, you know, we gotta, you know, what are we gonna do? They're gonna kill us if we go and defend this. And he goes, I'd rather be dead, essentially. I'd rather be dead than him take, take our father this way. And he, he was like a father to him. And they didn't even, the Jews at the time never considered him like that. But David was like, you don't talk to my

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  father that way, you know? And, and um, cuts him down, cuts him down, warns him, you know? And you see that statue of David? It's like, final warning. You're a dead man. Puts it right, right? And the, the, the armor was like here, across his nose. He had to hit him right there. I mean, it's the most unbelievable. But the fact that this God is saying, look how much my child loves me. And I, I felt the same way when I was doing The Passion. I wanted the world to know how much I loved him. I love him. Uh, this is the most important thing. I love him. And when St. Paul says, to live is Christ, to

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  die is gain, that's fine. What's the devil gonna do? Poof, he's nothing to me. You know, a warrior is right here, right? A regular, he's right here. He's, I'm a warrior. I'm, I'm, I gotta, I'm, David, I got the fire of God inside my heart. And so think of, in Ghost Soldier, you have this man, and he says, oh, the devil is over there. What do the sheep do? They run. They go, oh, don't look, don't look. I go, where? Kill. I have it in me to kill him every single time. Because what greater is in me that is in this world, and I believe to my core, more than Hollywood, more than our government, or the world's

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  governments, I believe deeply, and I wanted the world to know this. And, and so when you go, well, what happens if you get whacked? What, and the next moment, I'm gonna be with my Creator, my Maker, in, in a place we're all eventually going to end up, which is, we're all gonna die at some point. I mean, unlike you, I know I'm gonna die someday. But I lived, I fought the fight, man.

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  I had this experience, you, you actually drew this out in me. I, I had forgotten until you said it, but you talked about being in that theater watching Ghost, and feeling the presence of him, and him wrapping his arms around you, and saying, you know, I've got you. And in 2003, I'll be brief here, but in 2003, I was in, uh, I believe at the time, I was in Fort Carson, Colorado, and we were about a week or two weeks out for leaving for Iraq. And I had a, a really, a moment. No, I'm sorry, we were in, yeah, I think that's where we were. Anyways, doesn't matter. I had this moment of fear, like this,

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  like really intense fear about what we were going to do in Iraq. And I was pretty distraught at the time. I've not shared this publicly. And I've never had a closer experience to God than I did in that moment. I remember I was in a room, very similar to this, actually. Uh, the guys who were in the same room with me had gone out for the evening. And I was distraught, and I had this, I don't wanna, I don't wanna call it a vision, or an, I, I don't know what to call it, but I could feel his presence. I could feel his arms wrapped around me, like, I got you. It's gonna be okay. I've got you. You're under my watch.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  All is okay. And I can't articulate, I can't use words to describe it, but I had it. And I can't deny it. And I haven't shared it publicly, ever, I don't think. Probably a handful of people know about it. Um, it reminded me, when you talked about that, how close we are if we would just listen. And I think in that moment, I really was pleading for safety at, at the time. For myself, for, for my family, while I was gone. It's pretty powerful. I, I'm glad you brought that up in me, because uh, that was a good experience. It was a really good experience.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  Hmm. Wow. That's beautiful. I love that. I love the, the image of where you explain. It's like, my arms are around you, you know? God's, he knows what we need too, boy.

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  It's a, huh, oh, it's, you know, there's no way, uh, there's no way that I could ever come up with these characters and, and the films. Uh, they're really, from him, they're always, seems like these dysfunctional things. I don't get the easy movies. I get the right movies. I get the hard ones, but did the right movies.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  Hmm. I love what you said earlier too, uh, about that the protagonist is choosing to get involved, right? He's not, yeah, maybe thrust into it by circumstance, but we, we, we all are confronted with circumstance, but he chooses to get involved. And I think that's something that a lot of men resonate with, with you, with the characters that you portray, with the movies that you, that you have, is that it's inspiring. It's like, I don't have to do that, but I'm going to do it, because that's what's required of me. And I think that's why I resonate so much with the work that you do, and who you are as a human.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  When we did Monte Cristo, there was great lines in there. God will give me justice. And it's Alexander de Ma. And he, when that film was sold, they never used any of it.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  And I wish they would have. I could pick more people would have come. You know, Roger Bernbaum and Gary Barber. They own Spyglass. They had a film called The Six Cents, which is a great film.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  And it was, I think it did like $670 million. It's $7 a ticket. And it was just huge. And when their other film came out, which is Count Monte Cristo, did $80 million. That's good. It's respectable. But it, Gary Barber, I ran into him at Sony and he goes, our biggest film ever, Jim. You're in it. I said, Monte Cristo? He said, yeah. So it was the tortoise and the hare. Monte Cristo just kept going and going and going. And it really is, you know, it is, it is about a man's search for meaning.

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  You know, who am I in man and everything like that? Great when you, you know, you go out and hunt. You know, you get connect to the earth and the ground and just did the, the animal instinct that a lot of guys never experience in hunting.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  But also that presence of sound. You start hearing things, sensing things that as a hunter, a lot of people have no clue.

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  When you're sitting there and you've, you know, have your, your gun or your, your bow on something and you can feel you can't move. And this starts to happen.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  Your heart is pumping so hard. It almost feels like you're a toad and it's doing this.

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, for me, it's shaking, right? Like the adrenaline just coursing through my veins. And I'm like, I, I used to think, oh, I'm cold. No, it's not the cold shivers. That's my adrenaline like coursing through my veins.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. One of my good friends, who's world-class hunter. He hunted, literally he got done and he face planted. He had so little water. He was so enthralled in what he was doing and literally face planted, broke his teeth, everything.

• 1:10:12Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  Lack of water, tired, everything. But he was that, so engaged for that long, for that many days in the cold and everything like that. It just, he, I'll never forget him telling me, he says, it was like the ground came up and hit me in the face. And I didn't realize I had gone face planted.

• 1:10:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's incredible. Jim, I really appreciate you taking some time with us today. I'm very excited for the release of the movie Ghost Soldier. I'm very honored to be able to have this conversation with you because I've seen your characters, I've seen who you play and who you portray, and I've also seen how you show up from afar, how you show up in, in, in real life, off the screen. And I continue to be inspired by you both on and off the screen. And what an honor and a treat for me selfishly to have you be able to have a conversation with me. Man, I'm excited about your movie and I'm excited about what you're doing in the world.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Thank you. And you're with your boys, right?

• 1:11:15Speaker 00

  My oldest, my oldest son is with me. My second son doesn't like to hunt. He says, Dad, I don't like to be cold. I don't like to be tired and I don't like to be bored. And I'm like, those are three really legitimate reasons not to hunt. And my youngest son, he loves to hunt with me as well, but I'm with my oldest. He just graduated, so our hunts are going to be few and far between, uh, moving forward. So I'm taking full advantage of it.

• 1:11:38Speaker 02

  In, in your life, in your life, you're giving him a, a gift right now. It's an impression of who you are. This is like, this is as much as it is to you, in the future, there'll be a time when he remembers, he'll record everything. There are moments in my life when I sit there and I say, in the moment I was having it, I said, this is one of the greatest moments of my life. I remember one when I was 17 years old like that. So, you know, you're doing a cool thing.

• 1:12:12Speaker 00

  Can you share that moment with us when you were 17?

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  I was, I was with my father in a car. I had just lost the state championship in foul shooting. I, by one free throw, I, I shot out of my mind and I missed. This guy didn't miss any and neither did I. He'd missed before. And I remember driving back all the way across the state. And my dad would say something to make me feel better. And I'd sit there and then I'd go, God damn it, you know? All the way home. Never, never forgot it. And all of a sudden, on the radio, they say, and I told Detlef Schrempf this.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  I said, he played in the NBA, played for the, he was an NBA All-Star, fantastic basketball player, played against the Chicago Bulls in 96. Anyway, he played for the Sonics at the time, but he was, he was in high school. And he said, the great Detlef Schrempf is playing from Centralia High School. I said, Dad, can we go? And the coolest thing he said, he says, if you stop bitching about missing a foul shot, you'll go.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  You forgot that. It was the coolest thing. I went and watched, watched him play and, and I told Detlef that years and years later.

• 1:13:41Speaker 00

  That's amazing. It's funny because it's the moments that, I mean, sometimes you know, like I'll remember this moment forever. And sometimes you don't know it in the moment and then you recall it, you're like, oh yeah, that was pivotal. That was, that was pivotal for me. That's interesting. I'm glad you shared it. Thank you for sharing with us. Jim, I appreciate you. Thanks for, uh, thanks for taking some time. I know your time's valuable and I appreciate you sharing it with me and the guys.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Thank you very much.

• 1:14:09Speaker 00

  All right, gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with the one and only Jim Caviezel. What an incredible opportunity for me, but also what an incredible human. I mean, you could hear it in his voice. You can, you can hear it in his conviction. Uh, I did this one while I was on a hunt because it was such a great opportunity to talk with somebody that I've personally been inspired by, not only with his roles that he plays. Edmund Dontes on The Count of Monte Cristo, of course, Christ and the Passion of Christ,

• 1:14:41Speaker 00

  just an incredible human being off the screen. And I hope that message came through and I hope you're walking away inspired to do more in your life. Guys, make sure to connect with him on Instagram. Connect with me on Instagram. Take a screenshot real quick, tag it, post it, share it, let me know. I'll repost it on my end because I really want to make sure that social media is social. I hate when, when people, you know, they talk about their social media profiles, but you can't ever hear back from the person. You'll hear back from me. So post it up and then also make sure you check out The War Room. Head to orderofman.com/warroom, November 18th, 8:00 PM Eastern. Winter is coming, fellas. All right. I'll be back on Friday.

• 1:15:25Speaker 00

  We're going to be talking about the one thing that men want out of a relationship and the one thing that women want out of a relationship. And I think it'll help serve both you and the lady in your life. Make sure to subscribe, leave a rating or review, connect with Jim, go to The War Room, and we'll see you all on Friday. Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man Podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be? We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.