A Son Joining the Military, A Job Outsourced to AI, and Dealing with a Cheating Friend | ASK ME ANYTHING

In this episode of Ask Me Anything, Ryan Michler and Kipp Sorensen tackle seven challenging questions from listeners about fatherhood, career uncertainty, marriage, finances, relationships and personal responsibility. They discuss how to guide a teenage son considering military service, rebuilding a career after AI-driven job losses, coming clean about hidden debt, and navigating difficult family relationships. They also explore breaking generational patterns of anger, dealing with a friend's infidelity, and standing up to disrespectful in-laws. Along the way, Ryan shares thoughts on community involvement, personal accountability, networking and preparing for life's inevitable hardships. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - Opening Conversation and Catching Up 01:55 - Ryan's Experience with Vortex and Exceptional Customer Service 05:59 - Building Stronger Communities and Taking Personal Responsibility 09:34 - The Iron Council and Upcoming War Room 10:37 - Should My Son Join the Marines or Go to College? 16:20 - Rebuilding Your Career in the Age of AI 24:24 - How to Confess $30,000 in Hidden Debt to Your Wife 29:35 - How to Handle a Daughter's Difficult Relationship 34:32 - Breaking the Cycle of Anger with Your Children 41:37 - Should You Tell Your Friend's Wife About His Affair? 45:52 - Standing Up to Disrespectful In-Laws 50:30 - How to Respond to Insults Without Becoming Defensive 53:01 - War Room: Preparing for the Inevitable Hardships of Life 54:30 - Ryan's Conversation with Jim Caviezel and Closing Remarks Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Like if they make a snarky comment, you say, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. Can you repeat that? That's one tactic. Another tactic is, did you mean for it to come out that way? The minute somebody puts it on you, they're trying to make you the center of attention. They're trying to make you the butt of a joke. But if you make them the center of attention and turn them into the butt of the joke, people don't like that. People who do this don't like that. So if you say, I'm sorry, did you mean for that to come out that way? Cause I can't imagine you meant it to be insulting. What it does is it actually puts it, the highlight back on them. And they're like, uh, and what they'll usually do is, oh, yeah, you know what? I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said, I'm sorry.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  Kip, what's up, man? Good to see you. I've been gone for a little while and I'm leaving again in a couple of days. It's a busy time of year. It's all good stuff. I'm hunting and uh, it's all been good stuff, but I appreciate you and Sean holding down the fort last week.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Absolutely. How did your, you did a podcast with Vortex?

• 0:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did a podcast. I went on, yeah. So Joe Hamilton, their CEO, I went on his podcast. Uh, called Care, Create a Rare Experience, which they do. I mean, I've got stories for days about my personal experience with their customer service department, but also just being there. There was a guy that came in while I was there. And he brought in this box and one of the customer service guys grabbed the box and I was talking with Joe at the time and he came up to us. He's like, hey, sorry to interrupt, but check this out. And in that cardboard box, there was like eight to 10 rifle scopes, Vortex rifle scopes. And apparently the guy's barn burned down and burned all these optics and they were all just charred and melted and warped and everything else.

• 1:43Speaker 00

  And Vortex's warranty says, we'll cover them. So Joe's like, oh, that's awesome. And again, this is the CEO. This is the, the son of the founder of Vortex. And he's like, that's awesome. Here, hold it real quick. And he took a picture because he wanted to post it on Instagram. And they replaced every single one of his scopes like that. No questions asked. It was crazy.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  That's awesome. That's awesome.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's just really cool stories of what those guys do from a customer service standpoint.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Vortex.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Dude, it's

• 2:11Speaker 01

  I've never owned any other optics.

• 2:13Speaker 00

  They're amazing. It's the largest optic manufacturer in the world. There's other competitors and they'll even say like, these guys make great optics, but they don't have the warranty. They don't have the rare experience that we've been able to create. And that's why they outpace their competitors by leaps and bounds. It's crazy.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's awesome. And we'll look forward to when that gets released.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Um, I told the guys who are going hunting with us in Massachusetts next week, or I told Vortex we were, and he's like, let me send you guys some stuff. So he sent every single hunter, a rangefinder, a pair of binoculars, just because like they just take care of their people, man.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  Wild. It's wild.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  That's, that's really cool.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  So yeah, and I, I, I will say about hunting too. I don't appreciate you and Sean, you know, making fun of me or getting after me about not being on the podcast when I'm hunting. I will say this, to me, the reason I wasn't there is I'm just more, it could go one of two ways. Either I'm a more dedicated hunter than Sean is. Or it could be that he tagged out way earlier because he's a better hunter than me. So it could have been either one.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, really what this is, and we know this is to be true, is he's probably hunting on his property in his backyard.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  And you and I, for us to have a week long sit like that, it's pull a tag in, in the western states in Utah, which is a lottery and who knows?

• 3:33Speaker 00

  That's nearly impossible.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  And you might have to drive somewhere impossible to, to get uh, a spot to sit or we travel out of town, right? So, you know, Sean has the luxury.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  He's got a pretty uh, cool setup in his barn. He's got like an overlook outside of his barn on the second or third floor of his barn. And I think if I understand correctly, his youngest son shot his first deer out of that place. So they, they kind of created a blind right there and it's in the barn and they shoot out of them. Like that is awesome. I envy that.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  It's kind of cheating. Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Shoot from your bedroom window.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it could be, but also like, it's cool to have a property like that and to put in the work and have, have the things that you want, man. So it's awesome.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, it is cool. It is cool. Awesome, man. Well, do we, do you have some uh, wholesome segment or, or hop right into questions?

• 4:30Speaker 00

  We can hop right into questions. Actually, I will say something that I think is wholesome. You know, obviously uh, conservatives just took a shellacking over the past uh, past couple of weeks and, and during midterms. And that's not wholesome. That's the antithesis of wholesome, I think. But it is a, it is a repudiation of uh, Trump's policies, you know, and it's, it, it seems to have deviated from America first to foreign interests first, foreign wars, uh, and then the whole tariff fiasco was a nightmare. And you know, you see Trump's approval ratings just decline, decline, decline, decline, ever since what he called liberation day, which is the tariff day. Um, it hurt a lot of people and it continues to hurt a lot of people. So

• 5:14Speaker 00

  uh, that was, that was an answer back. It is interesting to me how many people are celebrating it. Like I get the repudiation. I understand that, but you're celebrating

• 5:25Speaker 00

  like, like the boat going down while you're on it. I, I just can't wrap my head around why you would gloat and celebrate that. I don't know. It's, it's interesting, but that's beside the point. The wholesome part that I wanted to talk about is we actually had a really, really productive call inside of our Brotherhood, the Iron Council this morning. Were you on the call, Kip? I know you host one later today.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  I wasn't on this morning. No.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  It would have been very easy to get into the political arena and everybody's like, well, what do we do about it? Do this and do that. And what you often see is guys are like, we're gonna have to bring out the pitchforks in civil war. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold, hold on. Like maybe there's some other things that we can do here. So on the call this morning, we talked about 10 things that you can do within the walls of your home and your neighborhood and community. And if, if, it was such a powerful discussion about showing up as, as an example, serving the people in your neighborhood and communities, getting to know them by name, uh, mowing their grass if they need help, look after their place if they're gone, serving in the community with the youth and coaching and mentoring.

• 6:34Speaker 00

  So we went through 10 different steps, buying local, the importance of buying local. Uh, and I, I just thought it was a really productive conversation when most of the conversations that are taking place right now are just bickering and fighting back and forth and even infighting between parties, which you know, I get wrapped up in at times, but like, what do we actually do about it? And it was really cool to be able to have that conversation with high caliber men, something that was productive. And I challenged all the guys like, go serve in your neighborhood. And some people might say, well, you know, Ryan, that's not enough to change the political landscape. What are you talking about? Of course it is. Now, if it's just you doing it, it may not be.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  But Kip, if it's you and your community, it's me and my community, it's 10 other guys we get on board. That turns into a hundred, a thousand, 10,000, 100,000, a million, 10 million people across the country, all serving their communities, all participating in community meetings, school board meetings, local governance, serving their neighbors, caring about people, knowing their names, protecting themselves, looking after each other. Those are the kind of things that I think are going to move the needle the most. Uh, when it comes to not just culture in general, but the political landscape that so many of us are disenfranchised by. So it was a good conversation and if guys are interested in having productive conversations

• 7:59Speaker 00

  with guys who can actually agree and disagree respectfully and mutually and, and honorably, uh, check it out. Go to orderofman.com slash iron council. So I guess that would, that's what I would say is wholesome on the fly.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  I love it. I love it. And not just join the Iron Council, but maybe even another option is we, you host a open to the public call every month or so. Uh, it's called the War Room. So we have one of those coming up on the 18th of November. And so, you know, no obligation, uh, go to orderofman.com slash war room, register, grab a seat and join the conversation. And uh, see, get a, almost, I think the War Room gives a pulse of the kind of conversations that we have in the Iron Council. So that's a really good way to kind of get a feel for what we're about.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I think the last call we did in October, I want to say there was probably 80 guys on that call. Um, the first one we did, there was a hundred and 20 something men on that call. So you're getting a lot of different looks and conversations from people. And it just goes to show how many men are interested in productive, relevant conversations that are going to help them improve their lives.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, let's hop into our questions. Our first question from Wade Callister. He says, my son is 17 and just told me he wants to enlist in the Marines after graduation instead of going to college. Part of me is proud, part of me is terrified. I never served, so I don't feel like I have a standing to talk uh, him out of.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  I don't have a standing to talk him out of it or into it. How do I guide him without making it about fears?

• 9:35Speaker 00

  I mean, why do you need to guide him to what he's gonna do with his life? He just, is he seventeen or eighteen? I can't remember what he said.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Seventeen.

• 9:44Speaker 00

  I mean, at this point, I don't know why you might be talking him in or out of that. Now, if he's gonna do something completely reckless and dumb, and some people might say that is, but I don't think that is, then yeah, I'm gonna tell him, hey bud, like, let's consider this. Let's think about this a little bit. But what I would do, more so than even trying to coax him in or out of what you're, what you're talking about, is just have an open, honest, curious conversation with him. Hey bud, tell me, tell me about the Marine Corps. Tell me why that's appealing to you. Um, what do you know about it? And, and even ask him, what are the pros that you see? What are the cons?

• 10:25Speaker 00

  You know, I don't think at this age, you really should have to steer that conversation one way or the other. I think just the guidance that you give is by asking questions that he may or may not have considered yet. And so he might come to the conclusion that after numerous conversations with you, that maybe he didn't think it all the way through. You know, maybe he had a couple of buddies that were joining, or maybe the recruiter made it, you know, painted it in the best positive light. If you're really adamant about him not joining, then I would get some education. Otherwise, you're kind of speaking out of ignorance. So maybe you do have some buddies that have been in the Marine Corps or another branch of service. Have him talk with those guys.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  You know, that's one thing that we often overlook is, we think as fathers, it's like, well, I'm the dad. I'm the guy who has to do it all. Actually, at that age, I found with my two oldest boys, one's fifteen, one's eighteen, is there are men in their lives who aren't me, that actually have more sway and influence in some ways than I do. I'm a little too close to home a lot of times, and that becomes hard. But if you get somebody that he truly admires and respects and looks up to, to have a conversation with him, it might land a little differently than the way you might be able to have a conversation with him. So never be too arrogant, egotistical, or prideful to get other high caliber men involved in your boys' and, and girls' lives.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I love what you said, Ryan, about, you know, our influences is weighing at this age. I mean, it's kind of funny, someone mentioned this to me, I don't know, you know, months ago, where it's like, look back at when you were seventeen, you know, eighteen. Was there anything that your parents would have said that would have changed the direction of your decisions?

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, of course not.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  And when you look at it, you're like, no, not really. Like, I would have listened out of respect, but it, it wouldn't have made a difference. I, I, I decided.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  I remember, so I was, I was either seventeen or eighteen, that's my senior year of high school, and my mom came to me and said, I think I was going out for the weekend, and she said, you know, be home at eleven, or whatever she said. And I said, no. I'll be home around midnight. And she said, excuse me? I said, I, I said, I'll be home around midnight. And she said, no, you're gonna be home at eleven. I said, no, I'm not. I have good grades. I'm performing well in sports. I'm staying on top of everything. I joined the military, I have a plan for after school. I'm, I'm doing fine.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  And I'll tell you what, if that stuff starts to fade or wane, then I'll abide by your curfew. But until then,

• 13:13Speaker 00

  I'm, I'm not gonna be home at eleven.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  And I wasn't, it was a little rebellious, for sure, but it wasn't, it wasn't disrespectful. I wasn't, I wasn't rude, I wasn't yelling, I wasn't making a scene out of it. I just said, no, I'm not doing that. And there just comes a point in time where, I mean, a seventeen, eighteen year old kid, I mean, it's his life right now. And what I would be focused on with, with you in particular, and also guys listening who have younger kids, is giving them some authority and autonomy over their schedule, within reason. You know, let them experiment, let them try. The biggest thing that, the biggest, the three biggest determinants of success are, are very simply this, and it's wild. Graduate high school,

• 14:00Speaker 00

  get to work, and don't have children out of wedlock.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  If you do those three things, your chances of having economic success in this country skyrocket relative to somebody who misses even just one of those marks. So your job really is to get your kid to finish high school, get a job, not get a girl pregnant, and stay out of jail.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 00

  If you, if you can do those four things, they're gonna have success in life. All the rest is an opportunity for them to experiment with leadership, self-authority, figuring out what, what works for them, what doesn't work for them, and giving them just enough rope that they don't hang themselves necessarily with, but they might feel the pressure if they make bad decisions.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  All right, Brent Kowalski. I spent nineteen years as a claims adjuster. This spring, the company rolled out of an AI system and cut half our, our department, including me. I'm forty-seven, and I've got a mortgage, two kids in high school. I keep applying for jobs that probably won't exist in five years either. How do you rebuild when the ground keeps moving under you?

• 15:13Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, the ground's always moving, first and foremost. It doesn't matter if it's AI, or somebody younger and brighter, or smarter, or a different direction, or the company goes out of business. It's always moving, and so we need to be aware of that. Uh, it sounds like you're applying for jobs that may not exist in your mind in five years. Okay, well, maybe you need to take a position to put, to keep the lights on and put food on the table, and I would do that. I mean, I, I'd go, I know guys who have been out of work for a long time, and they won't go get a fast food job because their luggage's beneath me. Oh, is it? It's beneath you that you can't pay your mortgage, and that you can't put food on your family's table? That's beneath you? Like, what an arrogant belief. Like, I'll go flip burgers if that's what it takes. Now, I'm not gonna stay there indefinitely.

• 15:58Speaker 00

  I wanna be either running the store in the next thirty days, or have something else lined up. So if you need to take a job that maybe isn't in your wheelhouse, that maybe doesn't pay you as well, uh, that maybe is gonna be non-existent in five years, fine, do it. Whatever you have to do to make sure your family is provided for. I would say that's an honorable move that you should not be above doing. But I would also spend a bunch of time thinking about what work, what line of work, what industries are going to be hard to replace with AI. And those things all revolve around the human component of experience. They do.

• 16:39Speaker 00

  I mean, even take what we do here with Orderman and Iron Council. AI's not gonna do a podcast. Now, could it, could it put out content and make it look like a podcast? Or could it have some sort of animatronic robot or AI pretending to be me? Yeah, probably. But what it can't take away is you and I keep getting together face to face, shoulder to shoulder, and going on a hunt together.

• 17:06Speaker 00

  What it can't replace is the way that I handle hardship that you might be dealing with, or I might be dealing with, and I need help from you. Anything that has this human aspect, this human element, it, it can't be replaced. So what that means is that means claims adjusters like yourself, uh, attorneys, CPAs, even doctors, that stuff's all on the chopping block. Cause the bulk of the work is not client-centric, it's activity-centric.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  And that can easily be replaced, and probably, if we're being honest, be done better by a robot than it can by a human.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  So, I mean, it should have been automated already, before this time, right? It's just, we never did it yet.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. But you know what? Like, a lot of people are afraid of AI because of the shakeup, and, and I've, I've heard, I can't remember who said it, but they said, you know, in that, we're gonna go through the next twenty years of hardship. There's gonna be a big learning curve for us to adjust to AI and, and how, how it's gonna be. But you look at any other technology, from the development of the computer, to the internet, to even cars. People were afraid of losing jobs and losing opportunities. But something else came along that allowed us to be much more efficient and effective. So in the meantime, what I would say is, get your work done. Get a job so you can provide. Save money, so if you get yourself into a hardship down the road in five or ten years, you've got a nest egg built up. Get out of debt, get your financial house in order.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  And in the meantime, start exploring lines of work, and occupations, and duties, and responsibilities, and connecting and networking with people that are working in spaces that are not going to be nearly as impacted by AI. Or learn AI. I mean, we implement AI in my business. You know, some people think it's the boogeyman. You can think that, but it's going to replace whatever you're doing. So I spend a lot of time, every single day, using AI, and every single week, learning about technology and strategy and implementation of AI into my business to make it more effective. I'm not gonna get left in the dark because I'm trying to stay out ahead of the curve.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Totally. Well, and one thing that, Brent, that you should look at is, think of your nineteen years as a claims adjuster. Um, figure out what the cross-training was, right? What, what are the skillsets that a claim adjuster has that is transcendent across, uh, different industries? As well as like job verticals? Cause sometimes we get wrapped up in this idea of like, oh, I'm a claims adjuster, identity, nineteen years. I can't get a job. It's like, no, no, no, like, get really clear. Like, what were you good at? Where are your technical skills? Where, what elements of claim adjusting is transcendent into other job markets? And figure that out, cause you've been cross-training. You're great at other sports. You just don't know what those other sports are until you sit down and get really clear on it.

• 20:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a good point. What do you think would be some applicable skills or other verticals that he might look into? You know, I, I think, for example, as a claims adjuster, two things that immediately come to mind is you're probably, probably fairly detail-oriented. You know, you're looking at the details of the case and figuring out what, what needs to be paid out, and what is your responsibility and what is not. So attention to detail. I'd also probably assume that you're pretty creative, too. Thinking about creative solutions to not only take care of your client and customer, but also take care of the business. You know, be prudent with the business resources as well. So I don't know, do you have any thoughts on what verticals or what avenues might, might appeal to something like that?

• 20:42Speaker 01

  No, I agree with you. I think those same areas, like you're probably really great with dealing with people. You know, finding solutions, working through, you know, problem solving skills are probably pretty solid. Your, your level of autonomy and leadership and influence is probably fairly high as a claim adjuster as well. So these are transcendent jobs. Now, the unfortunate part for you, Brent, and this is where the networking comes in, is the job market still does the very thing that it shouldn't be doing. And most organizations, they're retarded in their recruiting departments. And what they'll do is they'll say, well, we're looking for someone with a progressive experience in this area for the last 15 years. But what they don't say is

• 21:25Speaker 01

  we need someone with this type of work ethic, these types of mindsets and these specific skills. We don't give a crap if you've been in this industry specifically for 15 years. They think that matters. It doesn't actually. So you might have to do a much better job than just going to the market and finding these boxes that people are trying to put you in and applying for them. Which goes back to what you said earlier, Ryan. You need a network. You, you, you need to be out there communicating with people. And let's be honest, what job would you rather have? The one that you applied for, by the way, that gets screened with hundreds of other applicants? Or an opportunity that comes through a relationship with someone you know?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  It's the latter. So you, you, you gotta, don't be like everybody else and just fall into the system and just do mass submissions of job applications. I would double down on the, on the networking for sure.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Well, and who would those people rather hire, right? They'd rather hire somebody they know too. So if I'm you, or anybody in this situation, I'm gonna be at BNI Business Network International, I'm gonna be at Rotary, I'm gonna be at Chamber, I'm gonna be at all the, the business luncheons, the small business development programs, the SBA offices in town, like, I'm gonna be hustling out there and networking is, and I, I do that currently. And you should do that. If anybody's listening who has a job, it's like, part of your job should be networking. Not only for your business, but also for yourself, because something like this might happen.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. All right, Nate Rulez, I've been hiding, hiding, I'm like, I pause, I'm like, is he hiding, really? Okay, I've been hiding about 30,000 in credit card debt from my wife. It started small and snowballed, and now it's been almost two years of lying about it. I know I have to tell her, how do I own it without blowing up my marriage?

• 23:18Speaker 00

  Well,

• 23:21Speaker 00

  the way that most men make mistakes when they have to come clean about something is they think that just coming clean about the thing is the bulk of the job or the responsibility. So for example, you have to come clean about this credit card debt, and you do have to come clean, you know that. Or if you feel inclined to share an addiction that you might have, pornography or substance abuse. Most men, what they'll do is they'll say, hey babe, here's this thing I'm dealing with and and then they'll just stare like a deer in the headlights, waiting for her response. I've found that the best thing you can do when you need to have these discussions, and I commend you for wanting to have the discussion, you need to have the discussion, is you need to do two other things other than just confess.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  We talked a little bit about this a couple of weeks ago, the, the repentance process. I mean, that's kind of what this is. You need to repent of your wrongdoing. Part of it is admitting that you have a problem. And then addressing the people that are impacted by the bad decisions you've been making, which in this case would be your wife. And, and make amends is next. So you're making amends by telling her and getting yourself back in integrity. And then the, the last part of the repentance process is commit to changed behavior. So, but, but committing to changed behavior doesn't say, hey babe, I'm gonna change. That's not a commitment to changed behavior.

• 24:49Speaker 00

  Commitment to changed behavior is coming up with a plan, an actual plan for how you're going to do it. And then following through on the plan that you suggested. So I promise you that this will go over way better if instead of just saying, hey babe, $30,000 of credit card debt, I'm sorry, to, hey babe, $30,000 of credit card debt, I'm sorry, I can see how I was wrong. Here's what led to those decisions. And here is my strategy for fixing this. And so that strategy might entail you picking up a couple of extra shifts once or twice a week, and then applying it all towards debt. It might, it might

• 25:33Speaker 00

  require you to take some money out of savings or a 401k or something. It might require you to downgrade your vehicle. You know, if you've got an $80,000 truck and you go to her and you say, look, I'm sorry, I messed this up, but part of my plan is I'm gonna sell the truck and I'm gonna buy a 35, $40,000 truck. And I'm gonna use the, the difference to, to pay off the debt. You have to make sacrifice. And when you come to her and you come with a plan and she sees you implementing it, and I would implement it today, I'd start right now. And you can tell her, hey babe, for the last two weeks, I've, I've been thinking about how I need to tell you this, but also I want you to know,

• 26:15Speaker 00

  I've already hammered down $500 worth of this $30,000 of debt. By selling my golf clubs and selling a few firearms and cleaning up the garage, like whatever you're gonna do. Communicate it to her and then do it. That's how I would suggest going about it.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and great job Nate for addressing it, right? Like, I don't know, not to blow smoke or criticize other people, but like most people have an excuse for it, right? It's like, well, I'm 30K in debt, but it's because of XYZ and, you know what I mean? And they've justified it and they're not doing anything about it. So, you know, respect for you for like owning it and saying, hey, you know, I'm being dishonest here. And I need to come clean, address it and, and move forward. So, you know, get on the path, man, it's awesome.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  I don't think, I mean, you, you tell me if you think I'm wrong, Kip, I don't think you confessing $30,000 worth of debt is gonna blow up the marriage. I want to give you a little peace of mind with that. I don't know how else the marriage is, if it's already fractured, it's gonna create some real problems. But if it's otherwise healthy, uh, yeah, she's gonna be pissed for sure. And she has every right to feel that way. You would feel that way if she did the same thing to you. But I imagine, all things considered, that she's supportive, that she loves you, that she knows you'll get it taken care of. That you have a plan for addressing it. Uh, so don't come with excuses. You might talk about some of the reasons, you might talk about some of the things that led up to poor decision making.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  But don't come up with excuses, correct the behavior, show her the plan, start implementing. And, um, just keep her in the loop. Hey babe, that $30,000 we talked about two months ago, it's $27,000 right now, just wanted you to know. You're not looking for atta boys or pats on the back, you're just keeping her apprised so she knows it's not getting worse and that it's actually being handled.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  All right, Curtis Lindgren, my 19-year-old daughter is dating a guy I can't stand. He's not dangerous, just lazy, no direction, and he talks down to her in ways she doesn't seem to notice. Every time I say something, she pulls further away. Do I keep my mouth shut or is there a way to speak up that doesn't push her into his arms?

• 28:28Speaker 00

  How old is she?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  19.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  19, oh yeah. So she's an adult.

• 28:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would tread lightly with talking with her about it. You know, I might, I might bring some things up occasionally, you know, um, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't trap her anywhere when you do that. Meaning like, hey, hey, can I take you to, to breakfast or something? And then you talk all about that at breakfast and then she feels blindsided. But I might, I might give her a call, occasionally, like all the time and just say, hey bud, like I've been thinking about you, um, you know, you know how I feel about so and so, and it's frustrating to me because I care about you. And I, I want you to be safe, I want you to be happy, I want you to partner with somebody who's gonna create a good life with you. That's what I want for you.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  You're a big girl, you can make your own decisions, but I just want you to know, when I do bring these things up, it's because I care about you, it's because I love you. I don't want to control you. I don't want to drive you into somebody's arms that I don't get along with. And you could even tell her that. Just be honest with her, but say, this is why I share these things. So if I ever overstep, let me know. And if it's okay that I bring these things up every once in a while, I would like to know that too. And maybe she would be reasonable about that, if you're honest. I would also spend a lot of time getting to know this young man. I would. I mean, the reality, and I've talked about this, is he might become your son. So you should probably start treating him that way. Now, are you gonna go, you know, spend an afternoon with him?

• 30:06Speaker 00

  Behind your daughter's back? No, but if you're at a family outing or something like that, you know, there might be a moment where you can pull him aside and say, hey, look, Steve, like, um, you know, again, I would be honest with him too. I'd say, look, we know how we feel about each other. Hasn't been the best between you and me, but I'd like that to change. You're in my daughter's life. And, and whether that's for the next short term, or whether that's forever. Um, I would like to see how we can build a relationship and, um, I want to make sure that, that you know that I care about her and I care about you and, and I'm here to support both of you guys. And bring him into the fold a little bit because maybe, maybe he just needs a chance, you know, maybe he needs a fatherly figure. Maybe he needs somebody who, who believes in him to some degree.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Um, who will invite him. And I promise the more that he knows you and respects you,

• 30:58Speaker 00

  the more likely it is that he's going to take that into consideration as he treats your daughter, his, his partner.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Totally. Totally. Didn't you, didn't you experience that in high school? I mean, I know these are 19 year olds, but like, do you, do you remember that in the high school where if you're dating a girl based upon how her dad was and the family dynamic, kinda altered how you treated his daughter? I mean, it absolutely made, made an effect to things. And, and there were certain cases where you're like, you know, I, I need to be more of a gentleman with this girl, right? Like open the door and stuff because I, I, you can sense that her dad has like a high standard. So, man, I mean, bring them around as much as possible, right? And, and double down on that relationship with that daughter. So that way they're, they're, they're around the environment.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  I think so. I, you know, like if you and your wife are planning on going out, you don't have to do this every time, but invite your daughter and her boyfriend. Hey guys, we're going out tonight. We're gonna go hit Chili's, you know, later tonight. You guys wanna come? And just that proximity is going to be huge and he's gonna see the way you treat her. He's gonna see the way that you care about her and he's gonna be on his toes. And I, look, you don't need to intimidate him or bully him. I think that's stupid. You know, like, oh, you better treat my daughter right. Or it's like, dude, that's gonna drive her away and make him more rebellious. So I'm not saying you need to acquiesce either and be a pushover. To your point, I was dating a young woman in high school for a couple of years and her dad was, he was a no nonsense guy, but he always treated me with respect.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  He never treated me poorly. He never, you know, made me feel stupid or threatened me. I mean, he, but, but I knew, I knew that this is a guy not to be messed with. My, my ex-wife's dad is like that too. He never threatened me. I didn't come and he wasn't like cleaning his guns when I got there, but he was intimidating for sure. Yeah. Uh, and he didn't have to say anything, but I knew that he had respected his daughter and, and expected me to do the same.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. Jared Pickett, last week I lost my temper over spilled milk and yelled at my six-year-old. He flinched like he expected me to hit him. I never have, but my dad did. And that look on his face wrecked me. How do I break a pattern I swore I'd never repeat?

• 33:21Speaker 00

  Well, is it a pattern? I mean, you, you just told us about one instance and you said you've never hit him before. Um, maybe the impatience thing is getting to you. Uh, I can certainly understand that. I mean, I'm not condoning that, but impatience is something that is hard, um, for men. Also stress, you know, that stress gets transferred. It's like energy. You can't create it or destroy it. You can only transfer it. And I found that when I get stressed, I transfer it to other people through the way that I interact with them. And I might be yelling for you, um, or it might be distance for other people, isolation. Yeah, we just start treating people differently and that energy's gotta go somewhere.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  So I would get to the root of why you're feeling the way you're feeling. Like, why is it that you're stressed out? Or why are you being impatient? Why are you frustrated with your six-year-old? Or maybe it's your wife, or maybe it's the home dynamic. Like what is actually going, maybe it's something at work. What is actually going on? Because when you start to understand what is going on, you can identify when those triggers come up, which equips you more effectively of dealing with it. But if you don't know why you do it or when you do it, how can you address something? It's like, it's like watching game film before a sports game. You watch the film so you know what the other team's gonna do, so you can prepare yourself for what might come. But if you go to a game blind, you're, you're gonna have no idea

• 34:48Speaker 00

  why the other team is doing what they're doing, or what plays they're running, and what plays you're running, and what offense you should run, and what defense is gonna work best. And the same is true about self-reflection. So I would literally get a journal out, right? So get a journal. And I would write in there every day, whenever you're feeling stressed, whenever you're feeling frustrated. Whenever something comes up and it's bothering you, write it in the journal. So you can start to look for themes and threads. And you might realize like, oh, this is just conditioning, or I yell when I feel disrespected. Okay. So maybe your six-year-old did something silly. Maybe he said something to you. Um, maybe he didn't treat his toys the way he should have treated them.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  Uh, maybe he didn't clean his room. I mean, there's all sorts of things and you might be translating that into disrespect. When it's probably not. But if you feel disrespected and you know that every time you feel disrespected, you blow up a little bit, got it. That's the issue. That's what you need to work on. But you can't do that unless you spend time thinking about it.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna totally take this somewhere else because I'm kinda curious. Part of me feels, and, and I'm not justifying, right? I'm not saying like, hey Jared, it's okay that you use your temper. I, I do think you're blowing it out of proportion a little bit like, I'm repeating the pattern. My parents beating the shit out of me. It's like, dude, you, you lost your temper, right? Like you, you didn't, you know, you didn't put your hands on him just because he flinched, you know, like, you know, like that. Work on it. It's good, but also don't like blow this out of proportion. However,

• 36:27Speaker 01

  part of me also goes, why would my, like, I'm thinking about Koa, for instance, right? And it's like, I yell at Koa and if he like flinched, I'd be like, oh, got it. You're bothered by any type of elevation of like yelling and stuff. And not that it justifies the yelling, but part of me was like, am I creating environments for this kid to get a little hardened? On purpose, other areas? Does that make sense? Like you also don't want a kid that's so sensitive that if someone's yelling in the grocery store, they're like, oh, I'm gonna get hurt, right? Like, okay, so how do I create that? Now, the answer to this is Jared, not you losing your temper all the time.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  That's not how you do this, but is there other scenarios, right? Where we can actually create some, uh, environments where little Timmy's not so timid? By yelling and by other things, right? And, and maybe there's an opportunity here for us to create an environment where we're, we're hardening him a little bit. Uh, and building some resilience, some mental resilience for him and eliminating some fear and building some confidence all at the same time.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I like that angle. I mean, I think it's crucial. I mean, once he starts getting into sports and he should be at this time, you know, six years old, I think that's about five, six years old is about the time.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  People are gonna be yelling at him.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  I mean, it's happens. I mean, I, I remember when I went to basic training in 1999, I went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and I could instantly tell who played sports and who didn't. The guys who played sports weren't bothered by a drill sergeant being in their face yelling and spitting all over them. Because we've been doing it for 10, I, I had coaches yelling in my face for 10 years. It, it just wasn't a thing that bothered me. I, I wasn't intimidated by it. I wasn't afraid of it. It just means they are yelling. Yeah, they were mad. They were frustrated, sure, but yelling doesn't equate to anything else. But the ones who didn't, man, they'd have a drill sergeant in their face and you could see like tears almost in their eyes. Like they'd start like bawling up because

• 38:28Speaker 00

  they're not used to somebody's, somebody being vocal, being loud. And look, it is scary for kids and women when men get loud. It's, it's intimidating. You know, we're bigger than them. We're louder than them. We have the ability to frankly, to hurt them if we wanted to. So it is intimidating, but maybe there is some opportunity here of saying, hey, look, like sometimes dad's gonna get loud. Here's an opportunity for you to follow through before I get to that place. Um, or getting him involved in sports and around other men. I don't know if he's a single child or not, you know, that might have something to do with it as well. Cause my youngest kids see my oldest kids, they've all got chewed out in front of them and they're like, oh yeah, dad still loves them.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  Like he yells at him and then he's good. And that's cool. So.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Haven't you totally, I've done this so many times where I played sports or I was doing something with my kids and it started off as like, a yelling of like, dude, what are you doing? Like it started in that spirit. And then I sensed it, right? I, I realized like, ah, that's going negative town, but I kept yelling. And I'm like, no, you got this. You got this. And then I like make it this positive yelling thing, right? And I kinda pivoted midpoint. You know what I mean? Your kid needs to see you yell. And go, oh, yelling doesn't translate to abuse.

• 39:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  You know, and, and maybe there's some, I don't know, there's some chance there to, to maybe help Timmy out.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's an interesting angle. And I would agree largely too. So, yeah.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. All right. Mason Field, uh, one of my closest friends told me over beers that he's been having an affair. I know his wife well. Our families, uh, vacation together. Now I can barely look her in the eye. It is, is it in my place to say something or do I just hold him accountable and stay out of the rest?

• 40:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it's not your place to tell his wife that he's having an affair on her. Like, what do you, like that, even that consideration.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Responsibility.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Right. Like even, because you don't know what conversations they've already had. You don't know what she knows or what she doesn't know. I mean, I would, I would lean into him, you know, if it were you, Kip, I'd be like, dude, like what, like how, how much does your wife know? Have you talked with her about it? Well, what does she have to say? What are you, what are you doing to work on it? How are you trying to fix it? What can I do to help you? Who's this other chick? Like, how do we get you to stay away from her? Um, but no, you don't tell his wife, like.

• 41:08Speaker 00

  No, I don't even, I don't even have a word for that, but that's your, that's their business. He shared that with you in confidence. And so if you break that confidence, you're being a shitty friend, straight up. Now, do you like her and care about her? Yeah, sure. But again, not your place. Lean into him, pour into him, help him be accountable to something, to you, to his wife, to his kids, his family. And let the chips fall where they may. And also encourage him to, at some point, properly come clean about it to his, to his wife. I don't understand cheating, man. I don't, I do not. I can't, I cannot fathom. I can't wrap my head around it. I mean, I, I get it.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  You know, and I get why guys are tempted that way. But what most men will say, oh, I just got caught up in the moment. No, you got caught up in 10,000 moments leading up to that situation. When you hired the hot secretary and then you stayed at work a little late and then you got a little flirty. Maybe you got a little handsy, you know, hand on the shoulder, hand on the arm. Slowly the hand starts drifting downward. I mean, there's a thousand things that happened before you actually had. And an emotional affair starts even earlier, right, than a physical affair. So I don't, I just do not understand that.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Let me, let me ask you this, right? Because I, I can't help but wonder, like, in a lot of cases like this where the husband might tell his wife and they're couples friends. And the wife is like, a sense of loyalty, like, we gotta tell the wife. We gotta tell her that he's cheating on her, right? And now you have this weird dynamic. Yeah.

• 42:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, you shouldn't even tell your wife.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. If it's, if, if, if Mason, if like, if he's like, hey, like, in fact, we probably shouldn't even, Mason, you probably shouldn't have used your name on this question. So, but, but nonetheless, you know, you, you probably, you, you need to clarify if it's even okay for you to tell your wife. And if he asks you not to, you respect that, right? And I've done that with, with Asia. We've, we've had conversations where she's like, I can't tell you, because I promised I wouldn't tell. You know what I mean? Around something. I'm like, oh, got that, right? Like, I respect that.

• 43:27Speaker 00

  Be respectful of it. Yeah. And look, you, you said something interesting. You're like, oh, you might want to clarify. And if he says yes or no, or whatever. The default is no.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. Assume that as the default. Yeah.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  As the default. So if you didn't have that conversation, the answer is no. The only way that you could potentially do that is if he explicitly said, yes, you can. But because a woman, I don't know, I don't know the statistics on this. Maybe I'm way off. I think a woman is significantly more likely to gossip that way than a man is. I, I, I could be way off, but I imagine that, I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm just speaking out of my, you know what, right now, but um.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, no, that's not your information to share. He shared it with you in confidence. And it doesn't matter how bad it is.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  It's not yours to share.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Okay. I'm kind of jumping around since we're coming close on time here. So Dale, uh, let's go with Dale Hutchins. My wife's family has never respected me. Snide comments about my job, my truck, how we raise our kids. My wife says that it's just how they are and asked me to let it go. I've let it go for 12 years. How do I stand up for myself without putting her in the middle?

• 44:47Speaker 00

  Well, you haven't let it go for 12 years, because it's still here.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. You just haven't acted on it. Yeah.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  Which is fair. And sometimes you do need to bite your tongue. That, that's part of the deal.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I would have a real, I would have a real frank conversation with her and, and I would say, hey, look babe, like I've, I've bit my tongue for 12 years. And it's really frustrating. And I know you want me to let it go because you don't want to rock the boat. I don't either. I actually would rather not have to have this conversation or not have to deal with this. But it's getting to the point now where it's affecting me. I'm, I'm getting more and more frustrated. I don't want to spend time with your family. Like, I don't even want to go over there on Christmas. I don't want to take the kids around. Like, it bothers me. And I would like to talk with you about what we might be able to do about it in a respectful way where everybody's happy. And, and you can talk with her about what are some of those boundaries, you know? Is it the amount of time that you spend with them?

• 45:43Speaker 00

  But she should be on your side. Like, she should be the one championing this right now. She should be the one to say, hey dad, look, like, and maybe not even in front of you necessarily, but like, hey, like, when you, when you talk to him like that, like, I don't appreciate that as, as, as his wife.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  And I don't appreciate you guys undermining him in front of me or the kids. Like, I don't, I don't appreciate that. So it, it would be better for all of us if we tone back on those comments. And let me tell you what that looks like, because people who are like this, sometimes they don't know. I, I would be willing to bet that your in-laws are probably not even trying to be malicious. I'd be willing to bet.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  But it's coming across that way, either one of two reasons or maybe both. Some experience you've had in the past with a person who was critical or harsh or snarky. And, and now you're equating their behavior with that person or that experience that you had in the past. Or, and/or it's just the way they've always communicated, which is what she said. It's just the way they are. Well, good. At least you know now it's not malicious. Because I think if you're attributing malice to it, you're going to be much more likely to be defensive and frustrated.

• 47:08Speaker 00

  I mean, I might even joke around with them a little bit, because joking around is disarming. So if your dad says, your father-in-law says, oh man, yeah, your truck, like, thing's so old and beat up. And it's like, I know, but it gets great gas mileage. Or, I know, but I've got $90,000 in the bank that I wouldn't if I went out and bought a new truck. Like, you can defend yourself and play back a little bit, have some banter. I wouldn't go on the attack. I wouldn't say, well, it's better than your truck. That's not what I'm telling you to do. I'm saying just take it and, and enjoy it. You know, it's like, oh yeah, you're, what, what do they say about the job?

• 47:47Speaker 00

  Did you say something about?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Just like snide comments about the job, nothing specific.

• 47:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. So it's like, if they make a comment about, oh yeah, your job, like, I can't believe people pay you to do that. I would say, I can't believe it either. I'm so fortunate, because if anybody knew how little work I did, they wouldn't pay me as much as they do.

• 48:07Speaker 00

  Like, that is so diffusing and so disarming that it's like, it, it just takes away all the power and all the potency from some stupid comment that people make. So again, you're not being defensive, you're embracing it.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, and, and let's just assume that they were being malicious. That teaches them that like, that malicious comment doesn't work. Because every single time they do a jab, if you don't walk away a little bothered, they don't get their payoff, but you just joke around about it. And then they're like, okay, got it. Like, we kind of teach people how to treat us. And for 12 years, he's taught them to keep up with the comments and he won't say anything.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  Right.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Right? And, and, but I want to be really clear, and you've already said it, is this is an attack and return. That's not what we're saying. But diffuse it by just playing around with it and joking around about it.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. And you know, if they make a particularly interesting comment.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I interrupted you. What else were you going to say, Ryan? Sorry.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  No, uh, no, you didn't interrupt. Um, I just thought of something else as you were saying that. But if you, if they make a particular interesting comment, one, one strategy, and I learned this from Jefferson Fisher, who's on the podcast, and I'll give you a recommendation here shortly, is he says, could you repeat that?

• 49:22Speaker 01

  The question?

• 49:23Speaker 00

  No, no. That, if they make a comment, like, if they make a snarky comment, you say, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. Can you repeat that? That's one tactic. Another tactic is, did you mean for it to come out that way?

• 49:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. You should go, the recommendation I'm going to give to you is go listen to the podcast I did with Jefferson Fisher. And then go pick up a copy of his book. I can't remember what it's called right offhand, Conversations or some, something like that. But yeah, he's got so many good ways to diffuse and handle and let people know that you're not going to be railroaded without being a jerk about it. Because the minute somebody puts it on you and then they're trying to make you the center of attention, they're trying to make you the butt of a joke. But if you make them the center of attention and turn them into the butt of the joke,

• 50:17Speaker 00

  people don't like that. People who do this don't like that. So if you say, I'm sorry, did you mean for that to come out that way? Because I can't imagine you meant it to be insulting.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  What it does is it actually puts it, the highlight back on them and they're like, uh, and what they'll usually do is, oh, yeah, you know what? I'm, I shouldn't have said, I'm sorry.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I think you have trained them and there's ways to do it without resorting to their level.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and I got to re- repeat what you already said, because I think it's really critical, you know? He said, my wife's family has never respected me. Okay. Well, never, right? Whenever I hear absolutes, I'm like, okay, now, let's be honest, right? This is probably dramatized a little bit. I wouldn't say never. Now, do they say things that offend you and probably considered snide and rude? Sure. Right? But, but also check your, um, your pride a little bit here and, and the interpretation that you're, that you're creating and judgment you're putting on them as well.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  Well, you know what I'd also pay attention to is, do they make the same snide comments to their daughter, your wife? Or their other children? Because if they do, then you know, oh, this is truly how they are. It has nothing to do with you.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yep. Yep. Really good point. All right, Ryan, I have a hard stop. So really call to action. Um, we mentioned earlier, it's the War Room, uh, coming up on, uh, November 18th.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  8:00 PM Eastern Time. Um, the title is, Winter is Coming. What, give us a brief rundown. What, what can we expect on the War Room call on the, on the 18th?

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Winter is a metaphor for hardship. So it could be a bankruptcy or a layoff, like one of our askers, askers talked about earlier. Um, it could be a medical diagnosis. It could be a financial constraint. It could be a, a lawsuit or a divorce. Something's going to happen. It's not really a matter of if, it's a matter of when it happens and what will it be? So we're going to be talking a lot about how to prepare yourself mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, so that when winter does come, you're more capable of dealing with, confronting and moving past for yourself and for the people you have a responsibility for, your family, your neighbors, your community, colleagues, coworkers, et cetera. So we'll be talking about how to arm yourself, how to prepare yourself and how to get through those most difficult times of life.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  To reserve your spot and to register, that's orderofman.com/warroom. Once again, 18th at 8:00 PM Eastern Time. Um, as always, connect with Mr. Mickler on X and Instagram, at Ryan Mickler. Good to have you back, sir.

• 52:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's good to be back. And if you guys didn't listen to yesterday's podcast conversation, it's with, uh, Jim Caviezel. A lot of you guys know, uh, portrayed Jesus in Passion of the Christ. Edmund Dontes in, uh, The Count of Monte Cristo. And also his newest movie, Ghost Soldier is coming out as well. So he joined me on the podcast and we had an incredible, incredible conversation. So make sure to go back to tomorrow. Excuse me. Go back to yesterday and listen to that one. All right, guys. We'll be back on Friday. Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man Podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you are meant to be? We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.