First-Time Fatherhood, Protecting Your Peace, and Finding Your Faith | ASK ME ANYTHING

This week's Ask Me Anything tackles real questions about fatherhood, marriage, friendship, faith, addiction, parenting, and personal responsibility. Ryan and Kipp discuss why becoming a first-time father can feel more frightening than exciting, how to reconnect with an emotionally absent father, and how to take surface-level friendships deeper. They also explore balancing work and family, finding your way back to faith, essential backcountry gear, recovering after an alcohol relapse, and navigating a teenage son's growing independence. Along the way, they share practical frameworks for turning fear into action, building trust, creating deeper relationships, and leading without relying on force or rescue. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 Opening and War Room discussion 02:09 Selling through value instead of pressure 06:25 War Room September session 07:23 Wholesome segment: wealth, capitalism and medical innovation 12:32 First-time fatherhood fears 17:04 Reconnecting with an emotionally absent father 22:42 Taking male friendships deeper 28:00 Balancing providing and being present at home 35:41 Finding your way back to faith 42:59 Essential backcountry gear 48:43 Relapsing after sobriety 54:00 Parenting a teenager who is pulling away 59:45 War Room call to action Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Why you're using that as an excuse? What, what are you running away from? Are you running away from the fear of inadequacy? Are you running away because you don't like your wife? And you guys are struggling in a relationship? Are you, are you running away because you don't know how to do it? So it's easier to go to work because you do know how to do that? Ask yourself why, why work is a distraction and what it's distracting you from? So you can begin to work on it. If your relationship means work, good, get after it.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  Kip, what's up, man? So good to see you. Had a great call yesterday. I know you hopped on for a little bit and it's pretty cool to see how many guys are engaged and interested in what we're talking about and hopefully learning and applying. I mean, that's the biggest thing, applying what we're talking about, right?

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I love the move to do the war room monthly and providing value. Like a lot of guys that may have joined last night, you know, maybe they're, they've never been in the iron council. Maybe they just listened to the podcast and to be able to be part of the conversation with you and other guys around frameworks in our lives and how we can show up more powerfully. It's like, why wouldn't you join those calls? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a given, so.

• 1:16Speaker 00

  Well, and that's the thing I've noticed too, is like, everybody's trying to sell something and push something, their course, their product, or this, or that. And look, I mean, I'm a business owner. I do the same thing. So I'm not saying it's bad or immoral. I mean, that's one, that's actually one thing you hear a lot more of is that making money is just immoral. Even if people don't say it as blatantly like that, they, they act as if it is. You know, they take, they take these individuals who have managed to build tremendous amounts of wealth in their life and they treat them like villains and criminals for simply being good at making money. And it's a little disheartening, but there's also a lot of burnout, I think, with social

• 1:58Speaker 00

  media and everything else going on, that it's just nice for guys to be able to get together and say, hey, here's some things that might help. And if they do, great. And if they don't, great. All it cost you was an hour of your time and learning some information that you didn't have before. So I think it'll be good. I'm excited to see how it develops.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was talking with the sales leader last night around this subject. We were talking about not wanting to be a sleazy sales guy. And, and obviously the conversation went to, well, don't be a sales guy. Just provide value, provide clarity. What is the service? And while you're at it, provide some value on the call and don't pressure people like, do you even, like, I ran into this issue even in my tech space where you could have a sales guy that would really push a sale. But let's say he's very assertive, overly assertive, maybe too aggressive, got the sell.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  But what you don't realize is if I bought with remorse, now my, my time in the engagement with you is looking for what? Looking for evidence why this was a bad decision? Because I didn't feel great about this decision. And so now I'm, I'm picking and looking for why I shouldn't have done it because that's how I felt. Like, there's a price to that. There's a price to selling people against their, you know, their better judgment. So don't do it. You, you'll, you'll pay the cost for that. You may get the sale right now, but you might end up with a project that goes south. You might lose yourself and profit margin on the actual project itself.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  They might go negative until more clients, like, you know, I don't know. There's, there's value in the transparency and communication and just providing value and letting people choose.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  I mean, that's, that's the end, at the end of the day, you want your own sovereignty. So you need to afford that for other people and trust that they can make a decision on their own as an adult. Like they can make a decision whether or not they want to purchase or buy. So I agree with you. And I also think, just like anything, there's opposite ends of the extreme, right? Or opposite, extreme ends.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  You know, you're talking about the extreme of being aggressive and I've certainly seen those people, you know, that it's notorious in the car sales industry, right? That's kind of the, the quintessential example. But on the other hand, a lot of people just don't do it at all. I mean, they're so afraid to ask for a sale. They're so like, I just want to add value. It's like, you didn't even give the guy an opportunity to do something with that value. So it is, it is interesting to try to navigate the two. But at the end of the day, I think your, your, your framework, what you just talked about or your belief in it, which is, hey, I'm going to add as much value as I possibly can and let the chips fall where they may. I even like something that you've said in the past too.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  You know, it's a, it, it can be a little bit of a reverse psychology thing. And I've seen people do it that way, but I'm not suggesting you do this in a manipulative way, is just take it off the table. Like if it's not a good fit for the customer and you as the, the owner of the product, acknowledge that. So if you were coming to me for something and, and I knew it wasn't a good fit, then I should be the first one to say, hey, you know what, Kip? Like, I would love to do business with, I'd love to take your money, but I wouldn't feel right about it because I don't think this is a fit for you. And then what you do from there is you help that person get a fit. So you might say, but I've got a friend who isn't much more aligned with what your goals and ambitions are. Can I make an introduction?

• 5:44Speaker 00

  And the beauty of this, I love introductions as just a way of adding value because it's a leveraging opportunity. So if I just sell you something, then I'll make the sale and I'll give you value. And it's just a one, it's just you and me. That's it. But if I give you an introduction, I'm helping you with your product needs and I'm helping the other guy with a referral or an introduction to somebody he would not have had it before. So I'm, I'm leveraging my effort and it just makes you look good. I mean, talk about goodwill. And when you actually have a need for whatever it is I offer, whether it's you or a friend, guess, of course you're going to turn to me. Of course you are. So I love this stuff, man.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  I could talk about this all day.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Well, and, and talking about providing value, you know, next month, September 9th, we're doing another session of the war room. So to sign up and register and reserve your spot, go to orderofman.com/warroom to be part of the discussion next month.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're going to be talking about how men tend to slip into different categories when it comes to leadership. And this is something that I've learned a lot from you on, which is the enforcer and the rescuer. And we might riff on that a little bit, but we're going to be addressing that. And then also looking at how to find the, the middle ground where, you know, you care about people and you want the best for them, but you don't feel obligated or obligated to like force them, strong arm them into doing what's right for them. So it should be an interesting discussion.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. All right, let's get into some questions. So our first question is from Marcus Webb.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  Wholesome, we didn't do a wholesome segment.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Go ahead, sorry.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  So I've got one that I just came across yesterday. I heard this yesterday. There's a billionaire hedge fund manager and you probably heard his name, Bill Ackman. Does that name ring a bell?

• 7:45Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  Okay, it, it's beside the point, but he's a billionaire hedge fund manager and his, recently he just shared that his daughter suffered from a brain hemorrhage, I believe. And the way that I understand this is that if after about five hours without performing surgery to basically relieve the pressure of the brain and, and drain the blood,

• 8:12Speaker 00

  common medical practice is like, this is it. Like, we're not going to say, we're not going to rescue you because you're done. Well, this, this woman, and I, I think, if I remember correctly, was 18 hours after her brain hemorrhage was she operated on. And it was, she was operated on successfully and she's recovering slowly.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  I think she still can't see the way I understand it, but she can hear, she can formulate words. She's walking up to, I think they said a hundred feet at a time, you know? And that might not sound like a lot, but when you have that sort of catastrophic injury to the brain, I mean, it's, it's catastrophic. So it's pretty cool. But what was interesting is that he is committed, and I'm just reading this part right here, committed $400 million to establish the Ackman, let's see, Ackman Oxman Institute in New York to focus on brain research and rehabilitation. And I have a little bit of a bone to pick, not with that at all, but with the way the

• 9:16Speaker 00

  commentary, like people are insane because the commentary you'll hear a lot on this, and I've done a little bit of looking into this, is, well, if that was my daughter, she would just die.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  And so they're critiquing this guy because he's got billions and billions of dollars and doing everything he can to save his daughter, which is what any of us would do. But what people are failing, and look, saying that if it was your daughter, she might die. I mean, I don't think you're necessarily wrong. Like if we don't have access to the best medical care, access to the best medical strategies, access to groundbreaking care, like somebody with a billion dollars might, yeah, it's, it might be a different scenario. So I'm not denying that. What I get frustrated with is that even though that might be true, this guy's committing $400 million to brain research, building an institute that down the road, they will develop

• 10:13Speaker 01

  something, some new technology, medical intervention, procedure, that will then go on to save potentially millions of people's lives. And this is what really ignorant people don't understand about capitalism, about profit incentives, is that that stuff trickles down. I remember, I remember TVs when, when they first like started doing flat screen TVs and they were astronomically expensive, but the technology is better, it developed, they got smaller, they got lighter, they got crisper, they got cleaner. And TVs now are a tenth of the cost of what they were

• 10:54Speaker 01

  before. Same thing with a cell phone. Only the richest people in the world had a cell phone 30 years ago and they had the big shoebox thing in their car. And now we've got, my phone's, I don't even know where my phone is, but now we've got supercomputers in our pocket that did more to, than the computers they were using to put a man into space. So the wholesome thing of this is that medical technology, capitalism, innovation, free markets, profit incentives are a good thing. They're a beautiful thing. And anyone who complains about it is

• 11:37Speaker 01

  being a little bit hypocritical because they're using the same technology that they might've been railing against even 20 years ago. So I just thought it was an interesting story and it's frustrating when people don't understand the nuance because they're so frustrated about some evil billionaire out to get them for some reason. Yeah. And I, I like the idea of complete the thought then. Well, you know, if I did, if, if my daughter had the same problem, she would have died. Awesome. So what are you going to do about it to become more resourceful? So then that way, if that happened, your daughter wouldn't die. Oh, got it. You just want to keep complaining.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Good point.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Right? So like if, if, or you're like, well, he should be spending his money elsewhere. Awesome. Then you do it.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Man, it's, it's so easy to criticize what everyone else is doing. Hell, a lot harder to actually do something about and take action on your own.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Well, all right, man. Let's get to it. We'll get to questions now. What do we got?

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Okay, Marcus Webb, I just found out my, my wife is pregnant with our first and honestly, I'm more scared than excited. Is that normal or does it mean something's wrong with me?

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Oh, it's totally normal. Yeah, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with you. And you know, the other thing that I thought about when it comes to fathers and mothers, fatherhood is more exciting for men after the baby's born. It just is. And

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't get involved yet. Yeah.

• 13:12Speaker 00

  Right. And motherhood is at conception. So even though a mom, when a baby's in the womb, a mom might be nervous, she also is like, oh, I feel the baby kick and I feel this immense love for this human being growing inside of me. So she gets a lot of the excitement that mixes with the fear and anxiety. But as a father, you just have fear and anxiety without any of the benefit of being connected to the kid yet. So I think for men, it's completely normal to worry about money and do I have what it takes? And is my wife going to suffer from postpartum? And how do I help her during this? But you have absolutely during this

• 13:51Speaker 00

  time, there is no benefit to you right now. It's just anxiety. Women, it's not the same. And I'm not saying they don't have their share of challenges. They certainly do. But it's a different dynamic. So yeah, I think it's fair to assume that you're going to have some, some fear and trepidation about what's about to happen in your life, but it's going to be amazing. And the best part is it just keeps getting better. It gets harder too, but it gets better. My oldest son graduating, going to college, you know, my, my second son with what he's doing with sports, my daughter to watch her dance. I went to one of her dance recitals, like three or four months ago, and it's my daughter and she's

• 14:34Speaker 00

  up there and I almost didn't even recognize her. I was like, what the heck? This is crazy. It's crazy. And then my youngest son and his personality and our relationship, it's amazing. But yeah, I definitely understand that this, the fear right now, that's totally common, totally makes sense.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Do you, do you remember your thought when, when you found out that you're going to be a dad? Do you remember like the thoughts that crossed your mind?

• 14:59Speaker 00

  I don't remember exactly, but I remember being like, and, and I was, I do, one thing I do really remember is trying to be excited when she told me.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 00

  It wasn't like, it wasn't like I wasn't excited and it wasn't like it wasn't planned. We were trying, but my first reaction was, oh no, what did I do? That was my first reaction as a man. But at the time she's excited, I'm like, yay, I'm excited. I don't know if it's like that for all men, but the excitement came later for me. It was a lot of nerves up front.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Oh, totally. Me too. I, I remember I was exactly the same way. I'm like, oh, amazing. But in my heart, I was like, oh crap. And my first thought was like, how are we going to do this? Right? Like, how am I going to do this? How am I going to go to school full time? And work a full-time job, right? Cause at the time I was working part-time, you know, and I'm like, all right, that's going to change. She can't work, right? And is school off the table? How am I going to pull this off? Right? So it was, we can relate, Marcus is what I'm trying to illustrate here is we can relate to it.

• 16:09Speaker 00

  I think from some practical steps, you know, talk, talk with your dad. If you have a close relationship, talk with other men in, in your network who are fathers and ask what they went through. I think, I think nerves and fear are, are a positive thing because it drives us to take action. So if you're scared about finances, you got nine months. So start locking down some debt.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  I mean, that was the first major level up.

• 16:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Right. For you, I'm sure you leveled up big time.

• 16:39Speaker 00

  Totally. Or, or, you know, maybe you're thinking about the baby's room and it's like, man, I got a lot of projects around the house that I've been putting off. Cool. Now get them done. So mom and baby are comfortable. Like there's a lot of good that can come from the fear if you let it drive you to action. It's kind of like what you were saying earlier. Complete the thought. I'm afraid is not the entirety of the thought. I'm afraid, therefore I'm going to do this to address it and let it, let it guide you.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. All right. Danny Ruiz, my old man was around physically, but checked out emotionally my entire life. Now he's sick and wants to make things right. Do I let him in or protect my peace? I love the black and white, you know, answers.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  That's a false dichotomy. Why, why is it that, I mean, even if you're just doing it for him, let's say, like if that's your only motive, why is, like, I don't, we don't know the full story, but why would that be at odds with protecting your peace? Like you could be peaceful in that. I, I mean, to reconcile with your dad, to give him the gift of forgiveness, to tie up some loose ends for you, to have some conversations, maybe to acknowledge the good that he did, even though he wasn't there emotionally. He was there physically, which means he was probably paying the bills and keeping the roof over

• 18:09Speaker 00

  your head. That all sounds like alignment with peace, not opposite of it.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Well, some guys had a lot of physical when they were kids and, and I'm sure they wished that dad was never around.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, true. True. No, it's true. I don't know. I just, I've, you know, I, I never really got a chance to reconcile with my dad and I don't feel like I had to the same degree that it sounds like you're talking about. But there were some things that I wish I would have said, and now I don't get to say them. So you can protect yourself emotionally. You can protect yourself physically. You cannot maybe depending on the situation, get other people like your wife or kids involved. If you want to protect them, like I understand all of that, depending on how the situation's going. But I don't know. I think the greater regret for you, and I'm just trying to fast forward and project myself out into the future

• 19:07Speaker 00

  in your shoes. I think the greater risk for you is not doing that. And then having regret for the rest of your life after your dad passes away than it is to afford him some grace and try to see what you can do in a, in a, in a safe, healthy way. Because that's not going to create regret. You're not going to regret trying. You could potentially regret not trying.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  I would argue Danny, that you're not at peace right now.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  I mean, if, if you are so upset that you think him trying to have a relationship with you keeps you peace, well, you don't have peace. You're just not addressing it. And, and I love, I mean, I'm going to slaughter it, but like this idea that forgiveness is not for him. It's for you. It's for your peace that you forgive people. So you can be at peace with yourself around how you're showing up in, in the relationship in spite of him. And so now sometimes we're not emotionally capable, maybe depending on our EQ, to deal

• 20:20Speaker 01

  with certain types of relationships. And maybe you know, like I can't handle it, but I'd be leaning in the direction of being complete with your dad regardless of what he's doing. And I think that's where peace shows up for you. And this might be an amazing opportunity for you to find that and to serve him.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  In regardless of his shortcomings.

• 20:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, my mom went through this with with her mother specifically when towards the end of her life and my mom and her had a strained relationship. It wasn't horrible, but it was strained. There was a lot of, I think, contention and animosity in the past. And my mom told me, and I remember this vividly. She's like, me going to serve my mom, even though I had some of those feelings, was the best thing I ever could have done for our relationship and for me. And she really had, she developed a deeper sense of love that she had for her mom because she served her. And her mom, at that point, couldn't do anything for her. But just the fact that my mom could serve her created an entirely different relationship.

• 21:31Speaker 00

  It was actually really, really beautiful to see.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Totally, totally. And sometimes you don't need a good reason.

• 21:37Speaker 00

  Oh, good. No, there's an inch. When you were talking about the emotional intelligence thing, I was thinking, I mean, we don't know if Danny, if that's an issue or not, but if it is, I wonder where you got that from.

• 21:54Speaker 00

  Right? You're talking about your dad not being emotionally present. And man, if you're not emotionally present, is this an op? Again, I'm, I'm making a lot of assumptions on this one. But there's guys that I'm sure feel this way. Is this an opportunity to break the chain for your children? Potentially.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And chances are, there's no chain breaking without something difficult. Yeah. So if this is really difficult, there's a really good chance this is exactly the opportunity to learn and grow.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. I just say, do it in a healthy and safe way. Like, you know, maybe it's field a phone call for, for a, for a half an hour or whatever, and see it would see what it's like. And then, you know, maybe it's catching breakfast together and see what it's like. No, no, no expectation. And then maybe it's, you know, go on a trip or have them come over and see the kids. You can, you can gradually work your way into this, is what I'm saying.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Totally, totally. Yeah. All right. Colton Fraser. I've got three guys I call brothers, but we haven't had hard conversations in years. It's all surface level jokes, hunting trips. How do I push it deeper without get, without it getting weird?

• 23:03Speaker 00

  I actually saw this question. I like this question. I think a lot of guys deal with this. And it's, you know, we often joke about small, I don't want to do small talk and I don't, I don't care about the weather, the sports. I mean, the small talk is good. It's what turns into a larger, deeper talk. But we also have to remember that not everybody is interested in the same depth that we are. That was part of the reason that I started Order of Man is because I was actually having a hard time finding men who wanted to be as involved in my, in development as, as I did. But like I was saying with, with Danny, you, you can do this slowly without making it weird, right, Kip? So if you and I have been buddies for years, and all we've ever been doing

• 23:45Speaker 00

  is talking about sports and hunting, and then all of a sudden I come to you and I'm like, hey, man, like, I need to talk with you about my deepest, darkest desires and what I'm fearing and what I'm struggling with. It's like, whoa. It's a lot for a guy who might not be interested in that. And that's where the weirdness comes in, right? But I saw this question and I came up with this acronym on the fly, which I'm pretty proud of. And the acronym is golf. So I just say, go golfing with the guys. Okay. And what I mean by that is this. So again, golf is the acronym. The G is goals. So if you're out on a hunting trip, or you're at the game, it might be very simple to say, hey, man, I was thinking about something like, we never really talked about,

• 24:29Speaker 00

  like, what your goals are this year. Do you have any goals? Like, I want to, my, one of my goals is to generate additional 20% of revenue this year. And I, I guess I don't really know what your goals are. If he laughs at you and mocks it, or is like, that's stupid, or I don't want to talk, or he doesn't have goals, that that's a sign that maybe this isn't a guy that you're going to be able to go deeper with. And you have to acknowledge that maybe he's just a hunting buddy and that's it. And I gotta go somewhere else for something else. So the first one is goals. The next is obstacles. So again, I might say, hey, man, I've really been struggling with something at work. I've got this boss and man, he's such a pain to work with. Like, he's arrogant, he's brash, he doesn't give us the resources we need. And I'm wondering if

• 25:14Speaker 00

  you've ever had a situation like that? And what did you do about it? So obstacles. The next is lies. And when I say lies, I'm talking about the deceit that you have. Like, do you really know yourself? And what sort of persona are you putting on? What, what kind of performance are you engaged in with your friends to make you better than you are? And can you acknowledge that? Can you say to a guy like, hey, look, man, I know we always have these conversations and I always say things are, are good right now, but I just, I actually want to be honest about it. I'm not actually in a good place right now. I'm struggling with this. So that's, that's what I

• 25:55Speaker 00

  mean by lies. And the last is fears. You know, you like, like, like, the first guy who asked the question about a new child. Right? Like, hey, I'm about to have a baby and I'm, I'm afraid, man, I'm worried. I don't know if we have the financial resources to do it. And you have two kids, like, what have you done? Right? So golf, goals, obstacles, lies and fears. And dabble in that a little bit. Do it casually and lightly and see who takes the bait. See who goes deep with you and other people won't. And then you know what kind of friend category they are. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with having friends who it's just surface level and you just enjoy going to the game or having a good laugh. But you also have to have other friends that you can go deep with.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and the common thread that I saw in your golf is it all requires you to go first.

• 26:49Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, and, and it's way more effective for me to come to Ryan saying, hey, you know, I have these fears and whatever versus, hey, Ryan, I want to go deeper in our, can you share some fears that you have with me? You know what I mean? It's like, no, no, stop, stop thinking everyone else should go first and coach them to go first. You go, right? And then test it out. And, and some guys may give you, you know, responses and you might realize like, this dude is, he's not positioned to really coach me in this area. Yeah. And that's okay, too, you know?

• 27:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think, I like that. Go first. Without any expectation is important. Make it, make it light. And, you know, just, here's another thing. I don't think I've ever had anyone mock me when I share these things. Now, that's not entirely true. They'll bust my chops because that's what your friends do. But that's different than mocking you. And I've never had anybody, when I've opened up in some way, mock me. Never. And I don't, I just don't, you've known these guys for years. I just don't think that's a risk you're gonna have to deal with.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  And I think most guys are actually looking for the same thing. They're just not saying it.

• 28:08Speaker 00

  Agreed. Agreed. So, yeah.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  All right. Wyatt Sims. My wife says I use work as an excuse to avoid being present at home. She's not wrong. But I also feel like providing is showing up. How do you balance that?

• 28:26Speaker 00

  Providing is part of showing up.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  But it's like saying, I'm healthy because you have good blood pressure, but you're overweight. It's like, you're not, I mean, you might be healthy in the fact that your, your blood pressure's good, but you're, you're obese. So are you healthy or not? Well, no, not entirely. So are you providing? Yeah. The financial means, sure. That's good. That's part of our responsibility. But it's not showing up as in it's not all of showing up. So I think if you wrap your head around the idea that providing is more than just financial provision, that you'll see that you need to be home for her. That when she's having a bad day, you need to be able to listen

• 29:16Speaker 00

  to what she's dealing with. You need to be able to treat her like she matters. This is one thing guys do a lot. And I don't think most men do this on purpose. They, they, the way they respond makes their wives feel like they're dumb.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  And that their opinions don't matter and that they don't have their own dreams and goals and desires. A lot of men do this to women, subconsciously. If you treat her like she matters and you listen to her stories and you hear her fears and dreams and golf and all this stuff we're talking about.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  That's part of providing too. You're providing an environment where she feels emotionally safe and regulated. By the way, do that for your kids too. Like, listen to your kids. Listen to what they like. Listen to what they're excited about. Listen to what they're afraid about. Listen to what their goals are. Help facilitate their dreams and goals. Help make it possible. My two oldest boys, when they're playing lacrosse, I was, I helped with sponsorships for the team. I helped with team photos, not because I necessarily wanted to do that, but because I wanted to be close to them. Because that's part of providing as well. So I would really start to ask yourself, why? Because you said it's true. Why? You're using that as an excuse?

• 30:36Speaker 00

  What, what are you running away from? Are you running away from the fear of inadequacy? Are you running away because you don't like your wife and you guys are struggling in your relationship? Are you, are you running away because you don't know how to do it? So it's easier to go to work because you do know how to do that?

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  Ask yourself why, why work is a distraction and what it's distracting you from so you can begin to work on that. If your relationship means work, good, get after it. Anyways, that's what I think.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah, I feel like we need to line up a, an introduction. Danny, meet Wyatt. Wyatt, meet Danny. Danny's whole question Wyatt is the result of you wanting to do what his dad did, which was around physically, but not present in his life. So look to Danny's question to know if that was a good idea or not.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, good point. Yeah, I would have some deep conversations with, with yourself and with her about why this is the case. And, and even asking her too. All right, babe. Well, okay. So you're not totally wrong. This is not uncommon for men, by the way. We always do this. Every single one of us. So you're not abnormal or weird. But what I would do is I'd have some deep conversations with her and say, hey, look, I know you want me to be more present and it's hard for me. I know work. I, financial provision's a big part of what I do. I feel good because I can bring home the bacon. I feel valued at work. Like, there's a lot about it that I really love, but I also love you and the

• 32:14Speaker 00

  kids and I want to be here for you guys. So when you say presence, you want me to be here, be more present. What, what does that look like for you? How would that, how would that show up? What, what is it that you'd like me to do? Now, you gotta be careful because sometimes women, women will have this idea of like, well, I don't want to have to tell you. I just want you to know.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  Okay. Well, you can come up with ideas, right? So a better conversation might be, hey babe, I've been thinking a lot about this and you're not totally wrong. What I'd like to do is I would like to take you out one night a week. And I think if we just reserved Thursday or Friday night for our date night, that would be great. I'd also like to, maybe when we get home, just decompress with each other a little bit. Ask about your day. You ask me about mine. Not for any like feedback necessarily, but just to be there, present, learn about each other. Going on walk, like, hey, let's go on a walk after dinner every night. We'll do that as a family. You can come up with a dozen ideas on the fly. And then you present them to her. Hey, these are what I'm thinking about doing. What

• 33:22Speaker 00

  else would you like to see? And then it's not so much her feeling like, oh, I'm having to put more work in and tell this idiot what I want when he should just know.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, I think that conversation with her could be really valuable. I think another approach that you could take, and, and I really do believe this is true for most guys, is they work because at work they're respected. They feel respected at work. And they don't feel respected at home. And so they avoid coming home. And, and I'm not saying that, right, Wyatt, so you can feel sorry for yourself, right? And go, yeah, that's why. I'm not giving you the excuse. But what does being respected at home look like for you? What does that look like? If you felt like your kids respect you, if it feels like, like what's the ideal scenario look like for you? And then reverse engineer

• 34:12Speaker 01

  that and say, okay, well, what kind of man would you need to show up as to make that available? How would you need to be treating your kids and your spouse and others for that to be available to you? And then start moving in that direction, enlisting them and asking them feedback. But like, there's something you're, how's this? Maybe think of it this way. What would need to be present at home for me to be excited about coming home? Man, I can't wait to get off work at five. Why? Because I just want to get home. Okay, what, what would need, what would that picture have to look like for you to feel that way? And make it. Start making it. There's a lot of power in that.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  I think a lot of the times we, we reverse the order, right? It's like, well, she's not respecting me, so I don't want to come home. Well, maybe part of the reason she's not respecting you is because you're hiding at work.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 35:04Speaker 00

  So who, this, this goes back to what we were saying earlier. Somebody needs to break here. Somebody needs to go first. And it's you. It has to be you because you can't control what she does. So if you want to be respected, then be respectable. Meaning, show up present. Show up engaged. Cook dinner sometimes when you, when you get home. Let her put her feet up. Let her tell you about her day. Take the kids to get ice cream. Go on the walks. Like, those things will obviously build respect for you from the people you care about most.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yep, absolutely. All right. Trent Ashby, I lost my faith somewhere in my 30s and I miss it. But going back to church feels fake. Where do I even start?

• 36:01Speaker 00

  When you say I lost my faith, my first reaction is where did it go? Where'd you lose it?

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Like, why, what happened?

• 36:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, that'd be a good thing to actually ponder. Like, did you have a bad experience at church? Did, did you read something that made you question? Did you have some sort of tragic circumstance that you didn't feel like God was there for you?

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Or you don't feel, you don't believe in repentance? So you don't feel like you can be repent, you can't repent of something that God wouldn't forgive you, maybe?

• 36:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, that's another, but I think if you, if you, it's like losing your keys, right? Okay, so I lost my keys and I'm looking all over. I gotta get in the truck. What do I do when I lose my keys? I start thinking about, okay, wait, when's the last time I had them? Oh, yeah, I went, I was in the truck and I went and got gas. So I definitely had them then. And I, and I came inside. So I had them then because I had to open the house. And then, oh, I went into the, the bedroom and I changed into some shorts. Oh, they're in my jeans in the laundry basket. And then you walk to where they are and you pull them out of your jeans and now you have your key. It's the same thing. So where, where

• 37:18Speaker 00

  do you go to find faith? It's not, you're not faking it. People have this, this like imposter syndrome that you hear a lot about. And you might be bumping up against that a little bit too, this imposter syndrome. But why, why is it fake to want to learn something new that you don't know? Why does that make you a fake? Why, why does it make you a, a fraud or a phony for you wanting to develop something that you think will improve your life? Clearly you do. You wouldn't even be asking about if that weren't the case. Imagine your son picking up and saying, Dad, I want to learn how to play the guitar.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  And you're like, cool, yeah, you should learn how to play. And he picks it up and he doesn't know the chords and it sounds horrible. And you're like, you're such a fake. You're such an imposter. Look how dumb you are. That, doesn't that sound ridiculous? We don't ever look at it in any context of any other aspect of life where people want to improve, but we always put that on ourselves. Because we have this expectation that we should just be an expert at whatever the thing is. And in this case, that you should already have your faith. Why? You lost it somewhere. You gotta go where it, you left it. And that could be church. That could be a men's Bible study group in, in town. May, maybe it's not church. Maybe you're not ready to go to church yet, but there's

• 38:46Speaker 00

  a group of guys who get together every Saturday morning and they read some, some passages and they have breakfast together. Cool.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  Plenty of online groups that do that. Reading scriptures, praying, being around other people who are faithful. There's a lot of different ways to do this that might be more comfortable for you now. But don't think it's fake just because you don't have what you ultimately want. That's how you develop it.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Totally. You know, Trent, I'll, I'll share a story that, that aligns perfectly to this. So I feel this way right now about jujitsu.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  If I went to the gym, and I will go to the gym today, when I go to the gym, I'm not training as good as I used to. I'm a black belt. Everyone knows I have this badge that says I should know what I'm doing.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  And there is a good chance that I might get on the mats today and get subbed by a purple belt.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  That's, that's reality. And so I feel like a fake. I literally, I'm like, I almost feel like, hey, uh, James, Johnny, you know, can I trade this in for, you know, maybe a brown or a purple right now until I get back on the path. But here's the reality. I've been training roughly once a month, maybe for the last eight, 12 months. And it's affecting me. So I have a choice. Don't go to the gym. Cause if I go to the gym, I have to face the music of feeling like a fake. Or I can go, well, it is what it is. I am not training as good as I used to. That's true. So how do I get out of it?

• 40:32Speaker 00

  Train.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  By going to the gym. Yeah. Go back to the gym like I used to, right? And train and, and realize, you know, it is what it is. And there's some power in it just to let it go and go, you know what? Yeah. I have to get back on the path and it's going to take a little bit of a while. So it, it, you know, it's going to be embarrassing to go to church and feel like, you know, I'm, I'm not aligned as much, or I'm learning from, from, from the ground up. Yeah. That's, that might be true. So just accept it and, and start getting in the reps.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Well, you know, there's another thing here too. And I'm not exactly sure how he worded the question, but he could also potentially be meaning that it feels fake. Like church feels fake. That's another angle. That's a possibility.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:21Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't know how he worded it, but.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  If, if that's the case, we'll find a different church.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 00

  I mean, I, I remember years ago, like we don't, we're not all going to resonate with the same thing. But I remember years ago I left, left my previous church and I found another church. And as soon as I went to that other church, it was a Baptist church, I felt at home. The pastor was great. He was, he was masculine. He said things with, with confidence and conviction. He didn't pull punches, not only spiritually, but also societally. And, and the people were great and we had good friends that were there. And it felt amazing. I felt something that I hadn't felt in years when I went there. Well, okay, that's the spirit. That means you're on the right track. And, and jujitsu is the same, like Kip, I'm sure you've been to gyms, whether you've trained there regularly or not, where you're like, I don't feel it here.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  Like this, this doesn't feel right. I don't jive, maybe the instructor and I don't see it the same way. And so, so find a different gym.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  You know, same thing with working out. I think that often people are like, well, CrossFit is the best. No strength training, no powerlifting, no that.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  You, you can't say it's unequivocally the best. It's might be the best for you and that's good. But other people might want to do something different. I used to do a lot of CrossFit. I don't, I don't like it as much anymore. So I like strength training. I just enjoy it better. Is CrossFit good? Yeah. I know a lot of people who've got really, really fit doing CrossFit. I have no problem with that. Same thing with running. I, I don't want to run. Other people love it. Good, go run then have fun. I'm doing something else.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Yep. All right, Isaiah Cole, this is kind of a fun question. I don't think we've ever had this question. He says, the best piece of gear you never go on a backcountry trip without. So if you go backpacking and maybe even hunt tree, hunting backcountry, what's like, maybe, maybe more than one, maybe like you're, yeah, you're, you're one, two gear. That's like, man, absolutely must have.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  So I'm thinking about this of like.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Shelter, water, food, right? Is what I'm thinking. Cause that's going to be the biggest danger. So from a shelter perspective.

• 43:44Speaker 00

  Maybe like, maybe a knife. Cause that can serve a lot of different purposes. So a knife, I think would be at the top of the list. Uh, also, I think I would also include the ability to start a fire.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  And I know you're a bow drill guy, Kip, and that's all fine and great, but I had this funny experience. I did this Spartanagogi years, uh, yeah, Spartanagogi years ago, and they gave us, they gave us a packing list. And, and it was very, very detailed and very specific. In fact, there were two guys who didn't pack what they said, and they didn't even let them participate. And they said, and they said in the thing, it said, bring a fire starting kit. That's what it said. That, those were the words it said. So I'm like, cool, what am I going to do? So I bring like some kindling and I bring the, you know, the flint and steel, the magnesium rod or whatever. And I brought a lighter.

• 44:40Speaker 00

  And I'm like, I don't know, like they're probably, they probably will take this lighter from me, but I brought a lighter because why wouldn't I? So I get there and they're doing a shakedown, making sure they're checking everybody's thing. And one of the instructors comes to me and he's like, all right, spread your stuff out. I spread it out. He's like, let me see your fire starting kit. He grabs my lighter. He's like, what's this? I'm like, it's a lighter. He's like, holy shit. You're one of two people out of a hundred that actually brought a lighter. Good job. Here you go.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Like we think that we have to make things harder because it counts more. So anyways.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  He's like, what's this propane tank and, uh, and heat rod?

• 45:26Speaker 00

  Blowtorch. I'm like, here's my fire starting kit.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  So I'd bring that. And then, uh, probably like a water filtration system I would probably bring. I think that'd be pretty important.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm the same, like all the, I mean, I think when I hear shelter, I think fire probably more, more than shelter. Right? Cause it's.

• 45:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Elements, how to deal with elements.

• 45:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's keeping yourself comfortable.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And a great knife and, and water filtering. If, if we went with fun stuff, right? Like not survivalist, but just fun, man. You know, once I got like a high end sleeping pad that you blow up. I was like, dude, that's a game changer. I sleep so much better on those things. They're awesome.

• 46:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, that would be good.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  I mean, just something to entertain yourself with would probably be good. Like.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 00

  But if, if you had to bring one book, you could only bring one book and you were in like this survival situation or stranded on a desert island. What, what book would you bring? And you can't say the Bible.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  As a man thinketh.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  I was thinking that too. As a man thinketh, or man's search for meaning was another one that came to mind for me. Yeah.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Something around mindset, because you know, you'd be negative.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're gonna need it. Oh, man.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  You know what's really fun is carving knives. If you've seen a carving knife, that's, that's kind of.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  Kind of curved a little bit.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  It's curved.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Dude, I've taken the kids backpacking and we have one of those and we spent like the whole day making spoons.

• 47:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Like grabbing sticks and making wood and spoons. And it's just, it's a really fun, entertaining thing to do. You could even make a bowl with those. If you got a big, a big enough chunk of wood. So I don't know. It's fun.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  Even like whittling, like sitting, sitting by a campfire and just whittling a branch that you found is always fun too. So, yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:33Speaker 00

  There you go. I would definitely be the one, to answer the question effectively though. And, um, uh, is you, you definitely want to bring a Montana knife company knife. I'm just going to throw that out there, a little shameless plug for Montana knife company and make sure you use the code order of man. When you get that knife that you're going to bring on your, on your trip.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Yep. And share poach, uh, share pictures and tag. There you go.

• 47:55Speaker 00

  Tag Montana knife, tag us and we'll make sure we share them. If you have internet service, oh, maybe that'd be a good thing to bring a cell phone. There you go.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  Actually, uh, you know what I started packing is, uh, smoke flares, boat flares.

• 48:10Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. After that guy in Idaho or in Moab got trapped in that canyon and he had to.

• 48:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Cut his own arm off.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  Cut his arm off.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  If he had a smoke flare, he would have been good.

• 48:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I actually carry a smoke flare everywhere I go, ever since that happened.

• 48:29Speaker 00

  You also got me one year, this like really cool battery pack. Like high powered battery brick. Bro, that thing is awesome. I take that.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Power laptop on it.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh yeah, it's crazy. So I take that when I go on trip, like it's, that's another cool thing to have. So anyways, all right. We beat that one up.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  All right, Grant Pelletier. I relapsed on alcohol after two years of being sober and I haven't told my wife yet. I'm terrified of what happens when I do. Any advice from your own experience with this?

• 49:06Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, I.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  I'm trying to be sensitive to, well, she, she probably already knows. Like if, if you had one drink, that's one thing, right? Like you went to the bar after work and had a drink. Okay, maybe not, but it, you, you're saying you relapsed, like you're just drinking regularly again. And she, she probably already knows, or at least knows something's up or off for you.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  I don't really, I don't know what you think about this kid, but I'm sure other people will think differently. I don't really think that's a secret that you should keep from her because, well, you're deceiving her, number one. And number two, it's affecting your relationship negatively, just by the fact of you saying, hey, I don't know if I should tell her, means that you have some guilt around it and shame. I might, if you do decide to tell her, which is what I would advocate for, I think she'd probably want to help you. Like, I think she might already know, and if you admit and you talk about that, she would probably want to help you. She wants the best for you. But

• 50:17Speaker 00

  I would also come with a plan. I don't think I would ever recommend somebody just wing something like that, whether it's pornography, or alcohol abuse, or something else. I don't think I would just go say, hey, I'm having this struggle, and I just want to let you know. That's, that's not how I would approach that. It would be, hey, you know, I know, you know that alcohol's been a big temptation of mine, and I've had bouts with it, and I've been sober. But I did want to tell you, because it's fair to you, and I want to fix it, that I've had, I've, I've succumbed to the temptation. And I've already found an AA meeting in, in

• 51:02Speaker 00

  town. It's every Tuesday, at Tuesday night at seven o'clock. And I'm enrolled, I already talked with, with the guy, so I'm enrolled. And I've gotten rid of all the alcohol. And I even know where my biggest temptations are, so I've made a commitment not to go even near those stores, as I'm trying to get back on the train. And I just wanted to tell you that this is my plan, and I'm sorry, and I'm going to work hard to fix this, because it's important for you and me and the family. That's how I would do it.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's spot on. I mean, what's the alternate, and is she probably going to be frustrated? Yeah. But what's worse?

• 51:44Speaker 00

  Of course she is.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  For her not to trust you? I mean, that gets real rough, real quick, right? Where, I mean, there's one, one element of, man, you make me frustrated. There's another element of, I don't know what I'm getting with you. I don't know if you're even being honest with me. And the minute you're really dishonest in something like this, she's going to start questioning other areas where you're dishonest, right? And so, I think the outcome of that's going to be way worse than her possibly getting upset. And I think what you said, Ryan, is spot on, is like, because what we're, what we're doing, not from a manipulative perspective, right? You want to plan, why? Because you should. But when you come to the table with

• 52:26Speaker 01

  the plan, you're telling me that you realize how serious it is, you've thought it out, and you've come up with an action plan. But if you come to me, and you're like, oh, I messed up again, then it's like, well, do you even care? Is this really that serious to you? Right? Because if it was, what would you do? You'd come up with a plan, and how, and how you're going to address it, and everything else. And so, that, that gives her some belief in you, that your mind is in the space that this is important. Right? So, it's twofold. And, and I, and spot on, right? Obviously, you're addressing it, at least you're addressing it. Most guys would, you know, some guys would say, well, I don't have a problem, you

• 53:08Speaker 01

  know, or it's no big deal. I, and make an excuse for the relapse, like, well, I thought I was an alcoholic, but maybe I'm not, you know, and, and play it out. So, at least you're dealing in that space of trying to understand yourself. I would get to identifying why you relapsed, and how do you mitigate that? Because that's obviously a known risk, right? Whatever the circumstance or the situation was.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  Well, and the other thing, too, is she's gonna find out. If she doesn't know, she's gonna find out.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  It's just a matter of time.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, you, you smell like alcohol. She's gonna find a beer can in the garbage can, or in your truck, or what, heaven forbid, but some way. She's gonna, she's gonna find out.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:52Speaker 00

  And if it's in two months or two years, that's, that's gonna be an issue. And it will, it will come up. She will find out. And I think she probably already knows, if I had to guess.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One more question, Ryan?

• 54:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's do it. One more.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  All right. Owen Whitfield, my son is 14 and pulling away. One word answers, locked doors, the whole thing. Is that just normal teenage stuff? Or should I be more worried?

• 54:24Speaker 00

  Well, we had one like this last week, a guy, or a week, a couple of weeks ago, where a guy felt like he was losing his son. Yeah, one word answers for a 14-year-old is, like, I'll, I'll send my, my 14-year-old, 15-year-old now, excuse me, 15-year-old a text, and I'll be like, hey, I love you, bud. Cool. Okay. Or just worse, give me a thumbs up. I'm like, good, thanks, appreciate that. So, I think that's, I think that's normal. The locked doors thing, I, I wouldn't allow that in my house. Like, and we're gonna have some conversations about that. Like, you can still have rules without worrying

• 55:06Speaker 00

  about pushing him away. But you might also ask, like, hey, why is your door locked? Or, and maybe he just wants privacy, you know? That could be a real possibility. It's like, okay, well, let's have a conversation about that, bud. How can you get the privacy you need, but within the constraints of our rules here at the house? And here's why we have those rules, because we're here to protect you as your parents. So, yeah, the one-word answer thing, I think is completely normal. The pulling away, I think is completely normal. The locked doors thing, nah, not here. The other thing that I try to do is I try to make this a really cool place for all the kids to come over. Not just my kids, but their friends.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:48Speaker 00

  So, even though my older children, I'm not as cool anymore to them, they still come over, and I know all their friends, I'll get them all pizza, they'll be watching the game. Like, I just want them to be here. So, even though I might not be directly conversing with them, I can see who their friends are, and I can see kind of their behaviors. And I know, okay, that, that kid, I don't like that kid. That kid, I do like that kid. And you can start to get a bearing a little bit more into his life. So, without much more context, I would say a lot of what you're saying sounds like normal behavior, but you might just need to institute a few little rules that would keep him more safe, I think.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm not saying this for Owen, but I don't know, I just feel like it needs to be said for everyone else listening. Be careful with the, well, it's normal, every, every kid, kind of BS answer. I hate that stuff. I really do. Like, it kind of triggers me maybe too much. Because I hear it in corporate America, it's like, well, you know, when you grow, this is what happens. I'm like, it doesn't have to. Maybe we don't want it to. Maybe we don't choose to lose our culture if we get over 250 employees. Maybe that, maybe, maybe we figure out how to do it better than everybody else, right? And so, you know, just be, be careful, maybe, and even realize it. Like, I even, even the, just a typical

• 57:15Speaker 01

  teenager thing, has like this box, this black box mentality of it. And it's like, no, it's not a typical teenager thing. What's happening? Ah, my kid is learning independence. They want more autonomy in their choices. Ah, that's a good thing. I want that for them. Okay, how do I give them that while also keeping them safe, while also maintaining some order in the household, all at the same time? But, but be careful with the, with the norms, because that's how we all ended up giving kids that are too young smartphones, because it was normal. And, and now we're all trying to figure out how to, to pull them back somehow. And we never should have gave it to them in the first place.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  I think that's actually, okay, so that's actually a really good point. Maybe instead of thinking about, like, is he pulling away? Maybe start thinking about, to what you just said, how, how is he pulling away? And is it a healthy thing? So, it's natural for a 14-year-old kid to want to hang out with his friends more. Would you be calling that pulling away? Or is that him being social, which is a good thing?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's, it's natural for them to, especially boys, take a few more risks, because now they've got that testosterone pumping through their veins. And so, are they being reckless? Or are they taking calculated risks that might have some sort of payoff? And good, that's a healthy way.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you know this, what happens if I just say, no risk whatsoever? That's a problem, because I labeled risk as bad. So, now I need to foster risk, right? And how do I do it in a way that promotes it, instead of just demonizing it?

• 59:00Speaker 00

  Right. Same thing with, with young ladies. It's like, well, he wants to spend time with his girl. Yeah, good. That's a good thing. I, I like that my sons like girls. I'm glad they like girls. And I want them to be able to have healthy relationships with girls. But they're not going to come over and close the door and be in the room alone with a girl. That's not going to happen. But can they go on a date? Can I take them to the mall and drive them there? Can they come over and have dinner? Well, I'm, yes, all of those things. So, I think, to your point, I think pulling away is, it is normal. I think it's normal.

• 59:43Speaker 00

  It's just a matter of how are they expressing that? And is it healthy or not healthy?

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. All right.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Good questions today.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And our call to action is, is pretty much just, join the war room, right? Where, where we're trying to provide value to you guys, be part of the conversation. You don't have to be a member of the Iron Council to join those. Those are open to the public. So, to register and sign up, go to orderofman.com/warroom to join us in September.

• 1:00:14Speaker 00

  Cool. Guys, we'd love to see you on that call, September 9. And we'll also be back on Friday for your Friday Field Notes. Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man Podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you are meant to be? We invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.