Lucinda Williams

Lucinda Williams, the multi-GRAMMY-winning singer songwriter, joins Norah for a laid-back conversation about writing her book, the experiences behind some of her iconic songs, and how a voice evolves with time.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:05Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Lucinda Williams.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  Yes. I'm just playing along with you.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm Norah Jones, and with me is Sarah Oda. Thanks for having me. You're always with me.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Our guest today, oh, boy, oh, boy. We have the incredible, legendary singer-songwriter and guitar player, Lucinda Williams. Her first album came out in 1979 called Ramblin' on My Mind and consisted of country and blues covers. But she followed that up shortly after with her own music on an album called Happy Woman Blues. And now, 15 albums later, she's still singing her heart out and writing these beautiful stories put to music, is how I like to think of it. Lucinda is one of my idols. She's many of our idols. Yes, I am personally a big, big fan. And I feel like her songs have sort of woven their way through different chapters of my life. Yeah.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  And when I hear a song, it just takes me right back to a moment in time. And like, just, her music has the power to do that. She's incredible. She's on tour off and on, so we got to catch her when she was in New York.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  Playing at the Beacon Theater and she's super generous with us with her time and her stories and I really loved hanging with her. This is the first time I've really got to sit down and hang with her and play music, even though I've met her many, many times over the years. So this was a very special time to spend with her. The first time I met her was at a Grant Parsons tribute in 2002 or three, maybe, maybe four. I'm not sure. But we have a great picture, the three of us with Keith Richards and he has no shirt on. It's pretty great. But that was the first time I met her and I just, ever since, I've been just a huge mega fan. I've been to many of her shows and just stood in the back crying.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  I know.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  You know?

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Because her, her music really evokes a lot of emotion.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Yes, for sure. She's a very moving performer. We also want to mention that her new album, World's Gone Wrong, comes out on January 23rd, 2026, and you can check out her new single by the same title, which is out now.

• 3:32Speaker 03

  Joining us also in this episode on guitar is Travis Stevens, so you'll hear another voice chime in here and there. I hope you enjoy this episode. It was my dream to play and hang out with Lucinda Williams.

• 3:56Speaker 04

  I'm so excited. I'm excited because, because you, you play piano and that's just such a great instrument.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Well, I, I read your book, so I know your connection with your mother and the piano. I love that.

• 4:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. It was interesting to hear you talk about that because you said she had a complicated relationship with the piano, so you always had pianos coming and going.

• 4:20Speaker 04

  Yes. I'm not sure what that was about, but just, I don't know, I guess she felt this pressure from somewhere in her mind from, from when she was younger, I guess, maybe, and that she didn't make something more of herself with it or something. You know, she never really talked about it openly.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  She would just kind of get in a certain mood about it and, you know. Yeah, I think I said in the book, it became kind of an albatross for her.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  That's so nice that you read the book.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  I loved it.

• 4:56Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  It was really, it was really special, you know. I didn't know that you had written a book. And Alinda Segarra from Hooray for the Riff Raff told me about it. And I was so excited. The book is amazing. Was it hard to like go that deep and write about your life like that?

• 5:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, kind of. It's, it takes a lot of time. That's, that's the thing. I didn't realize it was going to take, be so time consuming, you know. Now that I've done it, I guess, guess I could do it again, maybe. You know, they all, they all talk about maybe a second book and.

• 5:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  That's exciting.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  You know.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  It's interesting to think about telling your stories like that.

• 5:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  Like, I've never really thought that way, but when I was, I listened to it on audiobook because I like to hear you talk. So I, I was thinking about that. I was like, wow.

• 5:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's such a different thing from make, writing songs and recording an album, you know. It's just kind of a different part of your brain, I guess.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's cool, though, because I like the way you talk about your songs in it.

• 6:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Have you explained where the songs come from as much before you wrote the book? Like, did you ever explain where the songs come from in interviews when people ask? Or were you always like the shy away from that kind of person?

• 6:23Speaker 04

  No, I try to talk about it as much as I can.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 6:28Speaker 04

  Except for the super personal stuff, like who I was in bed with or something, you know, like.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  Now, that's in the book.

• 6:35Speaker 04

  That's in the book, yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  But like now the shows I'm doing, that's kind of what we're doing is I'm telling, sort of taking stories from the book and talking a little bit about that, you know, and then playing a song. I tell a story about like somebody I knew in my life or something, and then I'll sing a song that's connected with it.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  That's what the shows are right now.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Great.

• 7:01Speaker 04

  So.

• 7:02Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 7:03Speaker 04

  And people seem to really like it. They love hearing the stories behind the songs.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  They really do, I think.

• 7:09Speaker 04

  You know.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, they love that.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  I've always been shy about that, but when I was listening to you explain them on the book, it was so nice. And I felt even more close to the song, even a song that I like. Some of these songs I've been close to for many years already, because I love your music.

• 7:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  Like you talked about something what happened, something about what happens.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  When we talked. I love that song so much. And I had a summer in LA once where I listened to that song every single night on repeat.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 7:46Speaker 03

  Uh, for like a couple of months. So, hearing you talk about it was special.

• 7:51Speaker 04

  I can't believe I'm sitting here with you doing this.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  It's fun.

• 7:56Speaker 04

  You're so revered and everybody loves you, you know.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  Ditto. I mean, you're like my idol. Are you kidding? I'm, I'm so thrilled that you were open to it.

• 8:07Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. Let me see. It'd be cool if we could try, um, let's try something about what happens.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 8:16Speaker 03

  You want to try that?

• 8:17Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 8:21Speaker 04

  Wow, you just did a, you just hit a really good note.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  If you want to change the key, let me know, but.

• 8:28Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  No big deal.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  I know. I was telling Travis, I said, do we have the keys? And he said,

• 8:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, we can do them in your key. And I said, yeah, but that's just it. I don't remember what the keys are.

• 8:41Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, no, I wrote them down.

• 8:42Speaker 04

  He listened to some recordings and he got the keys off.

• 8:45Speaker 03

  Cool. Yeah, I wrote them down, too.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  I think I was doing it either G or...

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah, because it's in A on the record, but that's...

• 8:54Speaker 04

  Okay, that's... See, that's why I couldn't remember. It was either G or A.

• 8:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. Have you changed your keys over the years? I had to change a couple of keys to go lower recently.

• 9:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've been having to do that a little bit.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:07Speaker 04

  I hate it when that happens, but...

• 9:09Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  It's just part of aging, I think, a little.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  I think it's cool. I like what happens to my voice as I get older.

• 9:18Speaker 04

  Joni Mitchell, you know, that when she... A lot of people commented on that, that her... You know, she couldn't hit the real high notes like she used to or something.

• 9:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, but her voice is... She's turned into like something completely different.

• 9:31Speaker 04

  It sounds better now, I think, almost.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  It's almost like two different singers.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  And Emmylou Harris, she went through a similar thing, I think, like that. That album she did with Daniel Lanois.

• 9:43Speaker 03

  I love that album.

• 9:44Speaker 04

  Me, too, because it brought... I like that album the best of all her albums, I think, because she got this smoky thing in her voice that maybe Daniel brought it out in her or something. I don't know, but I thought it was beautiful that...

• 10:00Speaker 03

  I do, too.

• 10:00Speaker 04

  The way she sang on that album.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  I know, she's so low now.

• 10:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  So cool. I think when I was younger, I used to get excited to get older so that I would have a lower voice.

• 10:13Speaker 04

  Really?

• 10:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I used to say that. I can't wait until I'm older and I have a lower voice.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, but mine went too much that direction when, like, I wasn't taking care of my voice enough. Like, I was singing outside a lot without... And... Or singing inside without proper monitors and stuff. So I was pushing. And pushing all the time. And I ended up with nodes on my vocal cords.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  Really?

• 10:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. Did you have to have surgery?

• 10:43Speaker 04

  And I had to quit singing for like six months and just vocal. The only thing to do is just vocal rest.

• 10:49Speaker 03

  Oh, God, that's hard.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  And I had to do that. And eventually, they went down. So I didn't have to have them removed or anything. Thank God.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, that would be so scary. Hey, did you? You couldn't talk either? Or you just couldn't sing?

• 11:02Speaker 04

  At first, they said no talking and no singing. And for like six months. And then eventually, it came back. But I remember once I had a gig and I had, I was so hoarse. And I had to go and get a shot of Cortisone just to get the swelling to go down so I could sing.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 11:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. So now I'm like, that's why now I do my vocal exercises. I do all this sleep with the humidifier and.

• 11:33Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  You know?

• 11:35Speaker 03

  That's good. I warm up now before I sing. I didn't when I was really young, but it's just, it feels better.

• 11:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  Like I have more control.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  God, it sounds so beautiful. I love this room.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  It's nice. This is a nice piano.

• 11:52Speaker 04

  It just feels so good that it's really nice. At the risk of sounding woo-woo, like all hippie woo-woo. I say that to my audience now sometimes. When I'm talking to them about something, I go, "At the risk of sounding woo-woo." And they all laugh.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  That's funny.

• 12:09Speaker 04

  Because they know what I mean.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, it feels good in here. This place is.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  God, how long have you? Oh, no, this isn't your, I keep thinking. Because it feels like your place, though.

• 12:20Speaker 03

  I made, I think, my first and second record. I did some stuff here, though. So I've been here a lot. But this place has been here a really long time. I don't know how long, but they do a lot of jazz records here. So.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  Really?

• 12:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:08Speaker 05

  If I had my way, I'd be in your town. I might not stay, but at least I would've been around. 'Cause there's something about what happens when we talk.

• 13:35Speaker 05

  Something about what happens when we talk. Does this make sense? Does it matter anyway? Is it coincidence? Or was it meant to be? 'Cause there's something about what happens when we talk.

• 14:09Speaker 05

  Something about what happens when we talk.

• 14:17Speaker 05

  Conversation with you was like a drug. It wasn't your face so much as it was your words.

• 14:34Speaker 05

  And there's something about what happens when we talk.

• 14:43Speaker 05

  Something about what happens when we talk.

• 15:24Speaker 05

  Well, I can't stay around 'cause I'm going back south. But all I regret now is I never kissed your mouth. 'Cause there's something about what happens when we talk. Something about what happens when we talk. Something about what happens when we talk.

• 16:09Speaker 05

  Something about what happens when we talk.

• 16:29Speaker 04

  Wow, I love the way you play, just beautiful.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Thank you, I love the way you sing.

• 16:35Speaker 04

  Almost kind of like a guitar in a way.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks.

• 16:40Speaker 04

  You know, hit certain strings, like you, or the keys you hit, I could hear those notes on the guitar kind of too.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I feel like I've listened to that recording from the album so many times that I was definitely kind of trying to play the guitar part, you know.

• 16:58Speaker 04

  Do you write on piano mostly, or?

• 17:02Speaker 03

  I do a lot now, but when I started writing, I wrote on guitar because I was too, um...

• 17:11Speaker 03

  It's like the piano, I played jazz piano for a long time. And I had a block with writing. So I had to play, I learned like five chords on the guitar and then I wrote easily. You know, the sort of switching to an instrument you don't know as well, that helped me write.

• 17:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, wow, that's interesting. Because I feel like now if I knew piano besides guitar, I could stretch out more as far as my songwriting goes.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:40Speaker 04

  Like it would take me to different places.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  That's what I find.

• 17:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:44Speaker 03

  Different instruments will take you to a different place.

• 17:47Speaker 04

  Right.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  Because you're not going to the same chords, you're always going to.

• 17:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, definitely.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Have you ever sat down at the piano, like, you know, did you ever?

• 17:56Speaker 04

  I did want to when I was a kid. My parents took me to this teacher and I was going to start, but then I didn't like the teacher. I just didn't like the vibe.

• 18:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 04

  I didn't feel comfortable, so.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it has to be right.

• 18:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

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• 20:40Speaker 04

  I can't get over that. You were saying you did some jazz for a while?

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I kind of started out more doing jazz.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  Wow. See, that, I can tell, you know? That's a great, that's a great background to have.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, did you grow up listening to a lot of jazz?

• 20:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, because my dad loved Coltrane and Chet Baker.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the good stuff.

• 21:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 04

  And it really helps when I'm playing with other musicians if they've had, if they understand a little bit of that jazz thing, you know?

• 21:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:19Speaker 04

  It really makes a difference.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 21:24Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  This is already so fun. Thanks for playing.

• 21:29Speaker 09

  Oh, thank you.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  No, I'm glad.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's great.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  It's nice.

• 21:33Speaker 09

  Thank you. Just tell me when you need me to.

• 21:34Speaker 04

  It just kind of helps me a little because then, because I'm so used to hearing.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 21:39Speaker 09

  I know her picking, she has a, she's, I was trying to explain this on the bus the other night. I know her picking pattern. She uses her thumb and her first two fingers in a weird way that like, and I just, there was like, how do you know how to do it? Because I've tried to play Lucinda Williams songs for so long.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 09

  But she kind of lays a, she, there's a thumb, there's a thumb thing and then the finger thing. And she lays the vocal right in here.

• 22:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:04Speaker 09

  And she's always listening, like, if you're just like.

• 22:08Speaker 09

  She's like.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's too much.

• 22:11Speaker 09

  You have a particular kind of.

• 22:13Speaker 04

  Right.

• 22:13Speaker 09

  Area of it.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  I have a, you know what, I learned this new word in origin. It's called cadence.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, you do have a cadence.

• 22:21Speaker 04

  And it's a certain thing and it's hard to explain to other people sometimes, you know.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it's that magic part of music that you can't explain. You have to feel it.

• 22:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:36Speaker 04

  But see, you go right there because I noticed like when you first started playing, you gave it this kind of, kind of this almost bluesy kind of, or jazz kind of vibe, you know, like.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 22:53Speaker 04

  The soul thing. It is, it's hard to just, to try to verbalize music.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  It, well, that's.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  It's almost impossible.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's why I enjoyed listening to the book because you verbalize it in a way that, but only because I knew the music so well. It kind of enhanced it, you know.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  But, um, yeah, I always think whenever people are asking me questions about the music, I don't ever know how to answer it and I'm like, well, just listen to it, I guess, you know. Makes more sense. I also really love the song "Bus to Baton Rouge," which you talk about in your book, too.

• 23:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've really been enjoying doing that song lately. We've been playing it live a lot.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I think people just love it too, probably.

• 23:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think they do too, because when I announce it, when I say the name of the song, you know, people clap.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's got that emotion. It's interesting because again, I know this song so well for so long from, from listening to that album.

• 23:59Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  But I had my own relation to it. So it was nice to hear you talk about, you know, the places in your childhood where this came from. And I don't know, I almost started crying when I was listening to it because, I don't know, it reminded me of my mom and my mom's from Oklahoma.

• 24:20Speaker 04

  Really?

• 24:21Speaker 03

  And her whole family is, you know, from down there and I don't know, kind of just, she has a lot of stories of her childhood that kind of, it felt nostalgic to me in a way.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  You identified with a lot of it because of where your mother's from.

• 24:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, not me, but more through her, yeah.

• 24:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't know that about your background.

• 24:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I grew up in Texas mostly.

• 24:49Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, but she's from Oklahoma.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  And this is bad.

• 24:55Speaker 04

  Well, we're all from kind of not too far away from each other.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 04

  Travis is from West Virginia.

• 25:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:02Speaker 09

  Yeah, hillbilly.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  You're from West Virginia, I'm proud of it.

• 25:09Speaker 09

  I am proud of it. I love that, it's a beautiful place to be from.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  Do you live there still?

• 25:15Speaker 09

  No, I live in Nashville.

• 25:17Speaker 03

  Where are you living now?

• 25:19Speaker 04

  In Nashville.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  Oh, nice.

• 25:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's a little scene there that's cool, you know. A lot, so many people I knew were moving there.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  I know.

• 25:30Speaker 04

  And, you know, and my husband, Tom, and I were always going back and forth so much there and staying there, staying in a hotel whenever we were there. We decided, you know, this isn't really cost effective. We should probably get a house here.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 25:47Speaker 04

  And the real estate was in a good place. So we went ahead and decided to bite the bullet and got a little house in East Nashville.

• 25:57Speaker 03

  That's nice.

• 25:58Speaker 04

  It's really easy to live there. Things are so much closer together because we moved there from LA. And, you know, we were just ready for change.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:08Speaker 04

  I was just ready for a little bit smaller city and...

• 26:12Speaker 03

  It's a small, big town, right? That's kind of what they say.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah. It's kind of like a college town.

• 26:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's always nice, I think.

• 26:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's what I'm used to because that's, those are the kinds of towns I grew up in.

• 26:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:25Speaker 04

  You know.

• 26:27Speaker 05

  The college towns are so great because they're small enough to be comfortable, but then there's still enough culture there for it to be interesting.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 05

  And that's kind of how Nashville is.

• 26:39Speaker 03

  Always good coffee in a college town.

• 26:42Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yes, always good coffee.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  You want to try "Bus to Baton Rouge"?

• 26:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:49Speaker 05

  I'll just sing it and you can... Okay.

• 26:53Speaker 05

  I had to go back to that house one more time to see if the camellias were in bloom.

• 27:07Speaker 05

  For so many reasons, it's been on my mind. The house on Belmont Avenue.

• 27:22Speaker 05

  Built up on cinder blocks off of the ground. What with the rain and the soft swampy land. By the sweet honeysuckle that grew all around. Were switches when we were back. I took a bus to Baton Rouge. I took a bus to Baton Rouge.

• 28:21Speaker 05

  All the front rooms were kept closed off. I never liked to go in there much.

• 28:37Speaker 05

  Sometimes the doors, they'd be locked 'cause there were precious things that I couldn't touch.

• 28:52Speaker 05

  The company couch, covered in plastic. Little books about being safe.

• 29:08Speaker 05

  The dining room table that nobody ate at. And the piano that nobody played. I took a bus to Baton Rouge. I took a bus to Baton Rouge.

• 29:46Speaker 05

  There was a beautiful lamp I always loved. A seashore was painted on the shade. And it would turn around when you switched on the bulb and gently rocked the waves. The driveway was covered with tiny white seashells. A fig tree stood in the backyard.

• 30:34Speaker 05

  Other things I remember as well, but to tell them would just be too hard.

• 30:49Speaker 05

  Ghosts in the wind that blow through my life follow me wherever I go.

• 31:03Speaker 05

  I'll never be free from these chains inside, hidden deep down in my soul. I took a bus to Baton Rouge. I took a bus to Baton Rouge. I took a bus to Baton Rouge.

• 32:05Speaker 04

  You're brilliant, Nora.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Sorry, I didn't go to the G there.

• 32:11Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 32:11Speaker 09

  Where?

• 32:12Speaker 03

  Oh, there, at the end. I just did the C to...

• 32:16Speaker 09

  I'm just trying to follow you. I mean, you're good.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  Cool. On the interlude, I just kind of did the C to F.

• 32:21Speaker 09

  OK, cool.

• 32:21Speaker 03

  Instead of going and doing the whole cycle.

• 32:23Speaker 09

  Got you.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  And I didn't know if there was a solo. I can't remember.

• 32:27Speaker 09

  I don't remember.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  When we started doing the harmony then, it was so pretty.

• 32:31Speaker 09

  So it's just a D, is it D minor seven there? Is that what's happening?

• 32:34Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 32:34Speaker 09

  For the Baton Rouge.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 04

  I'm sitting here with Norah Jones.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  I'm sitting here with Lou Sando Williams.

• 32:45Speaker 04

  We're singing together, it's amazing. In New York City at this wonderful studio.

• 32:55Speaker 09

  You know what that sounds like? It sounds like when Elf, when he's singing the jingle to.

• 32:59Speaker 03

  And I'm singing, and you're my dad, but you didn't know about me. But I'm here and I'm singing.

• 33:06Speaker 09

  I love you and I'm singing.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  And I love you, I love you, I love you. I was actually just telling Jamie, as I've gotten older, I don't cry a lot. I don't know if it's because I've become hardened or what, but there's only a couple of things that kind of helped me get it out. And one of them is Elf, the movie. And one of them is listening to your music, which is a funny two things to put together. But I get.

• 33:35Speaker 04

  You laugh when you see Elf.

• 33:37Speaker 03

  No, I cry.

• 33:38Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  There's this one part in Elf that I cry every year. It's like the whole year builds up and then.

• 33:44Speaker 04

  Really?

• 33:45Speaker 03

  There's this scene where the sleigh finally flies and they finally all realize then that the magic of Christmas is real. And I just like, I can't, I don't know. It's such a weird place to cry because it's not sad, but.

• 33:59Speaker 09

  It's poignant, the whole.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  It's so good. It's just so well done. But I do the same thing with your music. I, I don't know, I think I've cried, I've come to see you a few times too, and just like wept in the audience. And it's, it's interesting, like, I think your music has, obviously, has a really visceral, like emotional quality to it. Maybe it's your voice, the songs, of course.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  The way you record, you know, it's not overly, you know, it's not that annoying thing about music, it's the real heart and raw.

• 34:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  Soul of it.

• 34:33Speaker 04

  I love that word visceral.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. I, I used it and I thought, wait, am I using this right?

• 34:38Speaker 04

  No, that's, that's a good one. That's a good.

• 34:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's, it's, it's done well for me. Thank you for all the good cries.

• 34:47Speaker 04

  You want to try, uh, we've come too far to turn around?

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love this song. Do you know, I, last time I saw you actually was at that Love Rocks thing at the Beacon, maybe in 2019 or 18.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  And you came out and you did this song solo. And that's the first time I heard it.

• 35:09Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 35:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was the one with, where there were a lot of different artists and it was a tribute. Anyway.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  It was beautiful. You came out and did this solo. And I, I was so into the song. Really loved it.

• 35:26Speaker 04

  That's cool. Thank you.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  You did a version of it with Charles Lloyd.

• 35:30Speaker 04

  Right.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:32Speaker 04

  Which I listened to last night and I hadn't heard it in so long. And I was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded with him.

• 35:40Speaker 03

  It's so good. Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 04

  I just loved him so much.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  He's great. You did that in the studio with him?

• 35:46Speaker 04

  Yeah. And we did, we ended up going out on the road together and doing a bunch of shows.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  That's such a cool combination.

• 35:54Speaker 04

  I know.

• 35:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 04

  He just blows me away, his playing.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 04

  He's got that Coltrane thing.

• 36:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:02Speaker 04

  You know?

• 36:03Speaker 03

  No, it was great. I'm, I'm so glad you recorded it that way, too. It was cool.

• 36:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, me too. I'm glad we have that down.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, let's try it.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  Now I'm nervous. Let me start over.

• 36:25Speaker 09

  We are too. We're just looking at each other like, oh my God, she's doing the thing that she does.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  Take us out.

• 36:33Speaker 09

  All right.

• 36:34Speaker 04

  I'm gonna have to move to New York now. I knew, I knew it. I'm in love.

• 36:41Speaker 03

  It's great.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  You're here, your piano and the studio. Like, I want to transplant myself.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  If you come to New York, we'll do some stuff. We can hang out, we can have dinner, we can play music.

• 36:56Speaker 04

  I know.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Can you see that?

• 37:04Speaker 04

  We need to do some shows together.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  That would be fun.

• 37:08Speaker 04

  You on piano, I would love to do that.

• 37:10Speaker 03

  That would be amazing. I would love that too.

• 37:13Speaker 04

  Me too. Because then, because a handful of my songs, several of my songs could really benefit from this type of arrangement.

• 37:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:24Speaker 04

  You know, but it's hard to do that unless you're on, someone's on piano like this.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 04

  Or, or like Charles, Charles when he was doing the sax thing, you know, like.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  And then it's hard to carry piano around or find a different one in each place. It's kind of tricky.

• 37:42Speaker 04

  I mean, obviously, you're not going to bring this on the road, so.

• 37:45Speaker 03

  Actually, we do bring a grand on the road.

• 37:47Speaker 04

  You do?

• 37:48Speaker 03

  I know. It's kind of crazy.

• 37:50Speaker 04

  How?

• 37:51Speaker 03

  Um, well, I put it in my pocket. No, I, um, I have a great crew who pack, there's like a case that it goes in and then it goes in the truck.

• 38:00Speaker 04

  Wow, there's an actual case?

• 38:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 04

  A grand piano?

• 38:03Speaker 03

  Do they take the legs off? Yeah, they take the legs off.

• 38:07Speaker 04

  That's amazing.

• 38:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's kind of wild, but it's tricky because, you know, if you're playing outside in the summer and the tuning.

• 38:15Speaker 04

  It can change the tuning probably even in everything.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  It can be tricky.

• 38:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, you know, I haven't been able to switch to digital because it's just.

• 38:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, I can understand that would be a hard transition.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  Maybe if I was playing in like stadiums, but I'm not. I'm playing in theaters and it still feels like a real piano.

• 38:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 03

  So.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  I had to, I had to learn it again too because even though I've done it so many times, but I don't know why that is. I just, like I have to have all the words to my own songs, you know, when I perform them.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  I mean, I was going to ask about that actually.

• 38:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  Because you have so many songs and they have so many lyrics.

• 39:01Speaker 04

  I know, and I just got to where I had to, we had to use a teleprompter because I used to bring a notebook, literally with all the song lyrics, this big notebook on stage and put it on a music stand and turn the pages and everything and that got to be kind of cumbersome.

• 39:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 04

  So we decided to go with the teleprompter thing.

• 39:24Speaker 03

  How, do you know the number of songs that are inputted into it?

• 39:29Speaker 03

  I don't know, do you know Trump?

• 39:31Speaker 09

  No, I mean upwards of a hundred, probably.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Okay, but that's not your whole.

• 39:37Speaker 09

  No.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  No, that's just the ones you're doing live.

• 39:40Speaker 04

  So it's just the songs that I'm doing, you know, on that particular stretch of tours and shows.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:47Speaker 09

  There's a big database where, in a Google Drive.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:51Speaker 09

  And if a song pops up in the set that hasn't been done since the teleprompter days.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:59Speaker 09

  It gets, it's pulled from the Google Drive and put into the teleprompter that day. And then it lives there forever.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  Gotta love technology.

• 40:06Speaker 04

  So they know all this, you know, digital stuff that I still don't understand, really.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  No.

• 40:13Speaker 09

  They're analog.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  You're analog all the way.

• 40:16Speaker 04

  I'm being pulled gently along.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  That's good.

• 40:19Speaker 04

  Into the digital world.

• 40:21Speaker 03

  Just follow the music.

• 40:22Speaker 04

  Into the cyber universe.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  Follow the music. It's all good.

• 40:26Speaker 04

  Well, it makes things convenient.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:29Speaker 04

  You know, and easier to manage. When you have to tour and do all these things with all these songs and instruments and all this.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  Much easier.

• 40:38Speaker 04

  Different people and.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  I have, I have like four or five songs in the set usually that I kind of need a little help with lyrics. And I have them on the piano. But then it's like, you know, then I'm like turning it, but it's not in a book.

• 40:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was doing the pages and the, that was working until I was playing at the Bridge Concert one year.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  Did they blow off?

• 41:04Speaker 04

  Yes, a gust of wind came along and blew all the pages onto the stage and.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 41:12Speaker 04

  There I was, completely in a panic, trying to grab all the pages and put them back on the music stand. And Emmylou Harris saw the whole thing and she joked with me about, kind of teased me about it later, you know.

• 41:27Speaker 04

  So.

• 41:28Speaker 03

  That sounds like an anxiety dream that I've had. You know what I mean?

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  Where you're on stage and all of a sudden, you don't know how to finish what you're supposed to be doing.

• 41:37Speaker 04

  I know. That's what it, all it takes is one time of forgetting the words.

• 41:43Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 41:43Speaker 04

  You know?

• 41:44Speaker 03

  I know.

• 41:45Speaker 04

  Ever since then, I had to have kind of a little cheat sheet, just something to kind of just fall back on.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, to spur you along.

• 41:53Speaker 04

  And it, to me, it really gave me a sense of, it was really liberating as far as singing goes, because I didn't have to think about, okay, what's that next line?

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:06Speaker 04

  Or what words coming up next? I could just concentrate on the singing.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, and just be in the moment.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  Right, exactly.

• 42:13Speaker 03

  That's great. I'm glad they have that now to help us.

• 42:18Speaker 04

  But, you know, then I see people like Steve Earle get up and sing these, needless to say, he had all of his songs with all of his, you know, a multitude of complicated lyrics. And he's up there wailing away, you know, with no words printed or anything, just off the cuff.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Some people, I've noticed some people really laser in, in that way.

• 42:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  It's nice when you can. I mean, we have moments of doing that. It's just hard to always do it. You have just so many songs.

• 42:54Speaker 04

  But it's weird, because when I was, when I first started out playing live and everything, I just, you know, I never forgot the words. I knew them all and just would, you know, get up and sing without any kind of assistance like that.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:11Speaker 04

  I don't know how somebody like Bob Dylan does it.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  He probably has a prompter now. But I see all those videos from like the 70s, and there's verse after verse after verse. And he's just laser focused on something else, the song, you know?

• 43:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. It definitely inspired me when I saw that, to learn my lyrics better.

• 43:37Speaker 00

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• 46:32Speaker 04

  Like where it says instrumental, is that a solo?

• 46:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll just do a little, maybe I'll just do the same, like the intro where it's not a full-on, we don't go to the bridge.

• 46:43Speaker 04

  Right.

• 46:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 04

  Okay. Did I actually write a bridge?

• 46:48Speaker 03

  Well, when I say bridge, I think I come from the old-school jazz standard terminology, where when they, we used to say bridge and talking about jazz tunes and it was like kind of more of a chorus, but it's just not the same. So I always say it wrong and confuse people.

• 47:04Speaker 04

  I was just saying that because there's this running joke about how my songs don't have bridges.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:11Speaker 04

  That I've told in my concerts, like one of the, this record company guy had called me in for a meeting because he liked my music and liked my songs. And he said, I think you need to go back to the drawing board, though, as a songwriter, because none of your songs have bridges.

• 47:27Speaker 03

  That's insane.

• 47:30Speaker 04

  You know?

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Which song was he talking about?

• 47:32Speaker 04

  Well, one of them would have probably been Change the Locks.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  It's one of my favorites. It doesn't need a bridge.

• 47:39Speaker 04

  Right, which was recorded by Tom Petty. So I didn't do too bad there.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 04

  But you know, a lot, I just didn't think about that standard way of writing.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  I have a hard time with bridges. They, if they're inspired, I love them. But sometimes they feel like they're come from a different song. Do you know what I mean?

• 48:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  I don't know. Have you ever written one?

• 48:04Speaker 04

  I don't think so. I don't know. I don't, I can't think of any of my songs that...

• 48:09Speaker 09

  You do. They're just, you probably wouldn't call them bridges. I mean, we were having this conversation in the car.

• 48:14Speaker 04

  Like this one.

• 48:15Speaker 09

  That's kind, I would kind of call that a bridge.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  This, to me, this is...

• 48:18Speaker 03

  But it's not bridging to a chorus. I think that's what the, the more pop terminology of the...

• 48:25Speaker 04

  Right, the bridge.

• 48:26Speaker 09

  You have to do this thing in order to get into the chorus.

• 48:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like a little other section between the verse and the chorus.

• 48:31Speaker 04

  Right. It's a, it's the link between the end of the verse and the chor, into the chorus.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  It's like this other world, the bridge. But I, I don't know. Yeah, I wouldn't call this a, a technical bridge. I just call bridges from jazz, jazz land.

• 49:01Speaker 04

  See, I love that.

• 49:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:17Speaker 04

  I keep hearing Aretha Franklin's voice in my head, you know?

• 49:21Speaker 03

  I keep hearing yours.

• 49:24Speaker 04

  Okay. Yeah, I'm ready.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  All right. Here we go. Ready?

• 50:09Speaker 05

  We are weary of these trials of tribulations. We are tired, but we have come too far to turn around. From the city of Atlanta to Birmingham, Alabama, we have come too far to turn around. We are here to bear witness to this monstrous sickness.

• 50:50Speaker 05

  We have come too far to turn around. We have stared into the eyes of evil. We have slowed dance with the devil. We have sat down at his table and shared with him in the feast.

• 51:32Speaker 05

  We have swallowed the liquid of his lies, tolerated the one we despise.

• 51:49Speaker 05

  Been led astray by his disguise

• 51:58Speaker 05

  And fooled by his beliefs.

• 52:40Speaker 05

  We've been victims of his wrath And we've wavered from the path And we have come too far to turn around.

• 52:58Speaker 05

  We will lay down the burden of hate and separation 'Cause we have come too far to turn around. For over four hundred years We've been on this trail of tears And we have come too far to turn around.

• 53:32Speaker 05

  We have stared into the eyes of evil.

• 53:40Speaker 05

  We have slow-danced with the devil. We have sat down at his table

• 53:57Speaker 05

  And shared with him in the feast. We have swallowed the liquid of his wrath.

• 54:14Speaker 05

  Tolerated the one we despise.

• 54:22Speaker 05

  Been led astray by his disguise. And fooled by his beliefs.

• 54:39Speaker 05

  We are weary of these trials of tribulations. We are tired, but we have come too far to turn around.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 55:14Speaker 04

  That song is never gonna sound the same without you, Nora.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  Oh, man. That is a powerful song. It struck me the first time I heard it. I couldn't believe, really, just like, straight to the thing.

• 55:28Speaker 04

  I was pretty angry about what was going on with...

• 55:32Speaker 03

  The world?

• 55:33Speaker 04

  The world, the person who was trying to run the world.

• 55:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. I got that sense.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  The Mr. D-T.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  It's funny how you can be so specifically angry about something and write a song like this, and it can still cover so many eras of being angry about something.

• 55:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  Right?

• 55:57Speaker 04

  But I was also thinking back on the struggles from, you know, the civil rights movement and the... Women's movement and just all of these battles that everybody's been through, really.

• 56:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it goes deep.

• 56:14Speaker 04

  Over the hundreds of years, the Native American struggle and the black struggle. There's just been so many struggles along the way.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, when I was reading your book, it sounded like your dad and maybe your mom also, they were really involved.

• 56:32Speaker 04

  Progressive.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Progressive and involved in things.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, my dad's dad was also, my grandfather on my dad's side was involved in the Southern Tenet Union's farmer's struggle. When they wanted to unionize because they weren't being paid fairly and everything. You know, that was when there'd be a plot of land, like a farm, and people of color would be working the land. They would essentially rent a plot of land from the landowner and then work, each person would work his plot of land. But, you know, there were some problems that went along with that.

• 57:18Speaker 04

  So people gathered together and tried to help them unionize. And my grandfather was, got involved in that.

• 57:27Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 57:28Speaker 04

  And was, you know, supportive of them and everything. Because sometimes they would have to have meetings in private. And some people would offer their homes, you know, for the activists to come in and have meetings to talk about what they needed to do. And my grandfather was one of those people who would let them hold meetings in his home.

• 57:53Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 57:54Speaker 04

  And he was real active and progressive. And of course, he was a minister, so a lot of times, you know, he was fighting against the church at the same time because they wouldn't be as supportive a lot of times.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  That's quite the line to walk at that time.

• 58:13Speaker 04

  It is, oh, yeah.

• 58:14Speaker 03

  It's interesting.

• 58:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, I always, when I tell this story, when I'm doing my shows, I always say, "My grandfather was a Christian in the true sense of the word."

• 58:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 58:26Speaker 04

  He walked the walk and talked the talk.

• 58:29Speaker 03

  That's beautiful.

• 58:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can tell this song comes from a deep

• 58:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  knowledge of the struggles.

• 58:37Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I love about it. It's so powerful.

• 58:41Speaker 04

  It's good not to forget.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  It's important.

• 58:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's why songs are good, to help you.

• 58:50Speaker 04

  Right, help you, help to gently remind you to get off your ass and be progressive and move forward.

• 59:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. Do you do that song every night?

• 59:04Speaker 03

  No?

• 59:04Speaker 04

  Not every night, but I'm thinking I'm gonna probably wanna do it at the, tomorrow night at the Beacon, I might wanna do it, yeah. It's just so relevant, the audience just seems to really gravitate towards it.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it was like, the first time I heard it, I was, I was like, it's one of those songs where you don't need to know it, it just strikes you as soon as you hear it.

• 59:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:34Speaker 04

  It reminds me, you know, of course, I was inspired so much by a lot of the beautiful, older protest songs that we used to sing, like "We Shall Overcome", you know.

• 59:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:46Speaker 04

  It probably reminds me of that one the most.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it does.

• 59:51Speaker 04

  Whenever those songs would be sung by a group of people, it just felt so wonderful to be included in that group, singing with other people the same song and feeling a similar way, you know, and there was just this, such a strong connection between the people singing it and, you know, it's just a good feeling.

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  There must, yeah, there's nothing like that.

• 1:00:17Speaker 04

  There's nothing like that.

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:00:19Speaker 04

  And so I was trying to, I wanted to get that feeling again of, you know, how that felt back then to... You know, be doing marches and singing those songs, you know,

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  and everything.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  It's beautiful.

• 1:00:35Speaker 06

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• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:01:58Speaker 07

  Hello, hello, I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.

• 1:02:09Speaker 10

  AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where.

• 1:02:25Speaker 07

  Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:02:29Speaker 03

  The new album has a really beautiful song on it, "Where the Song Will Find Me."

• 1:02:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Speaker 03

  I was wondering if we should do that one.

• 1:02:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, that'd be great.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  This song, how, how, when did you, do you remember when you wrote this song?

• 1:02:44Speaker 04

  Well.

• 1:02:47Speaker 04

  The interesting thing about this is I actually got some help on this from my husband and manager, Tom Overby, who, as it turns out, is, it's come to my attention, is a pretty darn good songwriter. You know, apparently he, along, before we met a long time ago, he had been interested in writing and, and all of that. And it came to the surface after we met, and I was working on songs, and he would come up and shyly show me some lyrics that he'd written, an idea.

• 1:03:20Speaker 03

  Oh, cool.

• 1:03:21Speaker 04

  You know, he'd say, "I got this idea for something. Now, you don't have to use it if you don't want to. I just wanted to show it to you."

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  That's so sweet.

• 1:03:28Speaker 04

  And I, it was sweet, and I was, I would take it, and I'd look at it, and it would be good, you know?

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Speaker 04

  So, this was one that he came up with, that I wrote the melody for.

• 1:03:39Speaker 03

  Oh, cool. These are his, his lyrics?

• 1:03:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  I love the idea.

• 1:03:45Speaker 04

  I know. The idea behind it is really different, unique.

• 1:03:48Speaker 03

  It's so sweet, just that. And then the last line, well, I won't give it away, but the last line is also so beautiful to me.

• 1:03:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. The feeling of, um, where the song will find me.

• 1:04:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  All right, cool. And this is on the new album?

• 1:04:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is on the new album.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  All right, let's try this.

• 1:04:45Speaker 04

  Standing in the rain,

• 1:04:53Speaker 04

  And the pouring silver drops.

• 1:05:00Speaker 04

  I'll ride the whistling train,

• 1:05:08Speaker 04

  And I'll get off at every stop.

• 1:05:17Speaker 05

  I wanna be

• 1:05:24Speaker 05

  Where the song can find me

• 1:05:32Speaker 05

  I'll walk across the bridge

• 1:05:40Speaker 05

  And stare up at the stars

• 1:05:48Speaker 05

  So close to the edge

• 1:05:55Speaker 05

  And all the passing cars

• 1:06:04Speaker 05

  Cause I wanna be

• 1:06:11Speaker 05

  Where the songs will find me

• 1:06:19Speaker 05

  I wanna be

• 1:06:26Speaker 05

  Where the song can find me

• 1:06:37Speaker 05

  I know they will find me like they somehow do I know they will find me when it's time to

• 1:06:53Speaker 05

  I know they'll remind me when they're ready to be found

• 1:07:01Speaker 05

  They'll come up behind me, not making a sound Not making a sound

• 1:07:26Speaker 05

  I find myself alone

• 1:07:35Speaker 05

  In the madding crowd

• 1:07:42Speaker 05

  On the bustling New York streets

• 1:07:50Speaker 05

  People talking loud

• 1:07:58Speaker 05

  Sitting on a stool

• 1:08:06Speaker 05

  In the corner of a bar

• 1:08:14Speaker 05

  The errand of a fool

• 1:08:22Speaker 05

  Has carried me this far

• 1:08:31Speaker 05

  To a place

• 1:08:37Speaker 05

  Where the sun can find me

• 1:08:47Speaker 05

  To a place

• 1:08:53Speaker 05

  Where the sun can find me

• 1:09:04Speaker 05

  I know they will find me like they always do

• 1:09:12Speaker 05

  I know they will find me when it's time to.

• 1:09:20Speaker 05

  I know they will find me when they're ready to be found. They'll come up behind me without making a sound. Without making a sound.

• 1:10:25Speaker 05

  I wanna feel that moment

• 1:10:32Speaker 05

  when the song can find me.

• 1:10:40Speaker 05

  I wanna feel that moment

• 1:10:48Speaker 05

  when the song can save me.

• 1:11:19Speaker 04

  Yay.

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  Yay. I think we got it. That was beautiful.

• 1:11:23Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  It was a beautiful song.

• 1:11:26Speaker 04

  Thank you. Sounds so good with the piano. I've never heard it like that before.

• 1:11:31Speaker 03

  The chords are pretty on this. They're really, I like the little corners they go to, you know?

• 1:11:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:37Speaker 04

  I love that you picked that up probably when you heard the recording. Because some, I guess Doug's doing that on the guitar or something that. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

• 1:11:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:52Speaker 03

  And then he, I'm like, where's he gonna go? And he's like, and he slides into that. It was so pretty.

• 1:11:57Speaker 04

  I love that. That's beautiful.

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  That's Doug Pettybone? Yeah. It's be, I love, I love his guitar playing so much.

• 1:12:05Speaker 11

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• 1:12:36Speaker 03

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.

• 1:13:21Speaker 03

  Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:13:31Speaker 07

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.

• 1:13:41Speaker 10

  AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where.

• 1:13:58Speaker 07

  Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:14:03Speaker 03

  This was so fun. Thank you so much.

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  Oh, I just thoroughly enjoyed it.

• 1:14:09Speaker 03

  I'm so glad you were up for it. Yeah.

• 1:14:11Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Well, I've made myself up for it, so.

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  Well, I appreciate that. Man, when you're on the road, it's hard to be up for anything on a day off.

• 1:14:21Speaker 04

  This was an exception.

• 1:14:23Speaker 03

  Well, I'm so glad.

• 1:14:24Speaker 04

  I knew I was going to want to do this, and I wanted to do as best of a job as I could.

• 1:14:29Speaker 03

  You did great. You sound great.

• 1:14:31Speaker 04

  Thank you. Like, when we were first communicating about doing this, and you said, and I said something about rehearsing the songs first, and you said, "No, we're just going to jump right in." And I totally got that. But when you get it, when it's spontaneous, there's nothing like that.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah. I'm glad you were down for that.

• 1:14:53Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. I understand that concept. That's how you record.

• 1:14:58Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, me too.

• 1:14:59Speaker 04

  That's how she makes her records. She goes in.

• 1:15:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't like to rehearse.

• 1:15:02Speaker 04

  I don't like to rehearse either.

• 1:15:05Speaker 03

  No, it's the kiss of missing it.

• 1:15:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. It is.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  Well, thank you so much.

• 1:15:11Speaker 04

  Well, thank you for having me.

• 1:15:13Speaker 03

  I love you so much.

• 1:15:14Speaker 04

  I love you so much.

• 1:15:16Speaker 03

  Thank you. I hope you're having a great time out there and feeling the love from the audience.

• 1:15:21Speaker 04

  I loved it, Nora. I really did. I mean, I've never, just being able to sit here and hear you play piano this close up and everything, just.

• 1:15:31Speaker 04

  You know, I'm a fan.

• 1:15:32Speaker 03

  Yay, I'm a fan. Thank you Travis for joining us.

• 1:15:36Speaker 09

  Hey, thank you for allowing me to be here. This was, this was a treat.

• 1:15:40Speaker 04

  It was lovely and beautiful and I just, one of the songs we were doing, I kinda got chills a little bit.

• 1:15:46Speaker 03

  Oh, good.

• 1:15:47Speaker 04

  My heart was just so big and just going, oh, love, love. Sometimes I just get these just overwhelming feeling of, and I just wanna hug everybody and...

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  That's the good stuff.

• 1:16:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's a good place to be. Well, I'm gonna hug you now. Is that okay?

• 1:16:08Speaker 04

  Yes. Please.

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  Aw, Malu, aw, so sweet. She's just so great. She's a hugger. Yeah, of course, southern, southerner. Yeah. I loved her stories. Also, I gotta say to everyone out there, and also you, I don't know if you read it, but her book is great. I have not read her book yet, but I am going to now. I really enjoyed it. Just hearing her talk about her parents, it was really moving and it's an interesting story. It's called "Don't Tell Anybody The Secrets I Told You", and it's great. She's very giving with her stories about her songs, which I really didn't expect. I always expect people to be a little more protective of that stuff. I don't know why, maybe because I am. Yeah. But I like when they're not,

• 1:17:08Speaker 03

  because it's really nice to get a little peek into stuff. And really good stories to go with everything. Yeah, it's beautiful. If you wanna hear the names of the songs we played in this episode, the first one was "Something About What Happens When We Talk", from Sweet Old World, 1992. That's one of my favorite songs. The second song, also one of my favorites, "Bus To Baton Rouge", from Essence, which was released in 2001. The third one, which is also one of my favorite newer songs, "We've Come Too Far To Turn Around", she released this on an album called Vanish Gardens, which she made with saxophonist Charles Lloyd from 2018. Number four, we played "Where The Song Will Find Me", which was from a newer record, 2022,

• 1:17:53Speaker 03

  called "Stories From A Rock And Roll Heart". I love that song. Special thanks to Lucinda Williams and Travis Stevens for joining us today. We'll be back next week with Ifa O'Donovan. Norah Jones is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Norah Jones. Thanks for listening. Today's episode was recorded at Seersound in New York City by Stephen Sacco, assisted by Maximilian Trope and Moes Wheeler and Jasper Leach. Mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda, with additional recording by Matt Marinelli. Audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Frye. Photography by Shirvan Lanaz. Coordinating producer Rachel Ward.

• 1:18:35Speaker 03

  Executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead, Queen Anaki. And produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda. Hey, that's us. Thanks so much for listening. Adios.