Aoife O'Donovan

Aoife O’Donovan, the GRAMMY-winning singer songwriter whose work spans an acclaimed solo career along with projects like Crooked Still and I’m With Her, talks with Norah about when she found the space to become the songwriter she is today and what she loves about life on the road.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:02Speaker 00

  Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Ifa O'Donovan.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 1:13Speaker 03

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 1:21Speaker 00

  Hey, welcome to the show. I'm Norah Jones, and with me as always is Sarah Oda.

• 1:25Speaker 04

  Hello. I love how you always point to me when you say that. Nobody can see you.

• 1:30Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:30Speaker 04

  But I can.

• 1:31Speaker 00

  There you are.

• 1:33Speaker 04

  Our guest today is the wonderful, poignant storyteller, singer-songwriter, and guitar player, Ifa O'Donovan. She's had a solo career for quite some time, but you may know her from her bands Crooked Still, Sometimes Why, and I'm With Her. She's collaborated with several artists, including Olle Bell, Chris Thiele and the Punch Brothers, The Milk Carton Kids, Yo-Yo Ma, Jerry Douglas, several orchestras. And she's joined Garrison Keillor on his Prairie Home Companion tours. And she is, I don't really know how to say it.

• 2:05Speaker 00

  You want to say bad A to the S asterisk, don't you?

• 2:10Speaker 04

  But I'm not going to say it, because we are not explicit.

• 2:12Speaker 00

  We don't want to get explicit today.

• 2:15Speaker 04

  We don't want to get explicit.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  But she is really cool.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  She's a bad.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  Mamajama.

• 2:23Speaker 04

  She's bad Mamajama.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. She is very cool, but that doesn't sound cool, so.

• 2:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  She's a bad Mamajama.

• 2:31Speaker 04

  She's cooler than us, basically.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  She's amazing musician, and I had so much fun getting it. Her music is hard AF.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  No, but her music was definitely hard. And so it was really fun to get inside of it and challenging. And just so fun to play with her. I was nervous because the music was a little bit more on the like complicated side. But then, you know, it always just, the chemistry happens and then it always comes together. And she's just so great. And I'm glad she's now our friend.

• 3:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:07Speaker 04

  Her solo album, All My Friends, came out in 2024. You'll hear some songs from that in the episode. And her latest album, I'm With Her, titled Wild and Clear and Blue, came out in May of 2025. In this episode, you're also going to hear a new take on a familiar song, so stay tuned for that.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, we bust out a cover. Hope you have fun with us. Please enjoy Ao Donovan.

• 3:40Speaker 04

  Where did you grow up?

• 3:42Speaker 05

  I grew up in Newton, Massachusetts.

• 3:45Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 3:47Speaker 05

  Heard of it?

• 3:48Speaker 04

  Yeah. I used to date a guy from Air.

• 3:51Speaker 05

  Air, Mass.

• 3:52Speaker 04

  Air, Mass. How close is that to Newton?

• 3:54Speaker 05

  Air is kind of like in the shticks.

• 3:55Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 3:56Speaker 05

  It's like out route, too. Not that far, maybe like 45 minutes.

• 3:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  40 minutes. Newton is right just outside of Boston, like on the T.

• 4:03Speaker 04

  You don't have a Mass accent?

• 4:05Speaker 05

  I don't, because my dad was from Ireland.

• 4:07Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, how Irish are you, actually?

• 4:09Speaker 05

  Very Irish. Well, actually, only 50% Irish, but. But my dad was from Ireland.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 4:15Speaker 05

  My mom is from Boston and has a really thick Boston accent.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 4:19Speaker 05

  I kind of have the in-between, like not Boston. My mom is this, my dad was this, and the kids are all kind of neutral.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  How many kids?

• 4:28Speaker 05

  Four kids.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, oldest of four.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Oh, you're the oldest?

• 4:32Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 4:33Speaker 05

  And my sister is the youngest and two brothers in between.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  It's a boy's sandwich.

• 4:37Speaker 05

  It is, and there's a big gap. My, three of us are kind of all born almost at once. My brother Kieran is like 20 months younger than me. And then my brother Aiden is two and a half years younger than that. So the three of us were like, you know, six, five, and three. And then my sister was born when I was 10 and a half.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 4:56Speaker 05

  But we're all.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  She was like your little baby?

• 4:58Speaker 05

  She was, but we're, and it's really funny because now we're, we're so close. Like, we're best, best, best friends. And we talk on the phone like 100 times a day. And we're just like, it's great. Like, we have such a great relationship. And it's funny now, people like being worried about the gaps of their kids and.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:14Speaker 05

  You know, and I always tell people like.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  I mean, people always ask because my kids are close together, but yeah, I don't think it matters. They're gonna figure it out or they're not.

• 5:24Speaker 05

  Or they're not, exactly. And you can't really like.

• 5:26Speaker 00

  You can't like predict it too much.

• 5:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, you can't guarantee if people are gonna be close or not. But I'm really close with all of my siblings.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 5:32Speaker 05

  And it's, I mean, it's like a loud, crazy, intense family. People who like to shout at each other, but it's like with a lot of love.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:40Speaker 05

  It's like that kind of vibe.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  That kind of vibe, like a movie should be made.

• 5:43Speaker 05

  Yes, like not as crazy as the bear scene. It's like that, that was, that was too much. Like, but it's like, it's like a, a more tempered, like, positive version of that.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  That's cool. You wanna play guitar?

• 5:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, I didn't know if I.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Get out.

• 6:05Speaker 05

  What do you, what do you wanna play first?

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Galahad?

• 6:09Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 05

  I really haven't played this song in like a long time.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  Good, because I've never played it.

• 6:22Speaker 05

  Great.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 6:28Speaker 05

  The piano part on this, like, I'm playing piano on the record.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Oh, it's awesome.

• 6:31Speaker 05

  It's so funny. I was really trying to, like, please sound like Bruce Hornsby.

• 6:34Speaker 00

  Oh, that's so funny.

• 6:36Speaker 05

  It's like-

• 6:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, it kind of has that vibe.

• 6:37Speaker 05

  I'm like trying to channel, like, my, one of my goals in life is to try to be more like Bruce Hornsby.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  He's awesome.

• 6:45Speaker 05

  In general.

• 6:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:47Speaker 05

  Bruce Hornsby live is like the most risk-taking guy. Like, I feel like his musicality is so off the cuff, but it's so good.

• 6:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 05

  And he's always going for it and like always doing these like weird things and lands them almost all the time. And then when he doesn't, he's just like moves on from it. It's just, I just love seeing-

• 7:08Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 7:08Speaker 05

  Shows like that where you feel like the performer's like-

• 7:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:11Speaker 05

  I don't know, taking some fucking risks.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  Well, it's alive.

• 7:15Speaker 05

  It's, yeah, exactly. It's alive.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  It's alive. Music that is not alive is not interesting to me.

• 7:20Speaker 05

  Same, same. And it's like, yeah, I want to get a WWBHD bracelet. People will be like, what does that mean?

• 7:27Speaker 00

  What does that mean?

• 7:27Speaker 05

  What would Bruce Hornsby do?

• 7:28Speaker 00

  Okay, thanks for explaining.

• 7:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  You're getting one.

• 7:32Speaker 05

  Yeah. I'm gonna get one today. I'm gonna leave here and go to a bead store.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Noted. Somebody's gonna send you one after this.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  You got a gold heart, I got a black one. Baby, I sting like a scorpion.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  So here I am, sun in the old oak trees, and ancient boys seem humming, mm, it's me.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  Rumor has it, stronger than a hundred men. But it's my word against innocence. I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  You muse on joy that will not cease. Pure spaces glow, living dreams and lilies of eternal peace.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  Lilies of eternal peace, lilies, lilies. I'll get over it when the morning comes. Bad and you'll be slouching towards Babylon.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  And not all the presents need it, singing back behind you, singing in your ear.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  Still you're looking out into a silly sea. We're up above, that goes like whales, we're free. I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  Yay, I'm alive.

• 11:30Speaker 05

  That was rad. That was rad.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  We're alive.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  So fun. We're so alive. We're right here.

• 11:35Speaker 00

  I love that song.

• 11:36Speaker 05

  Thanks so much. I love playing that song with you.

• 11:38Speaker 00

  You put that on the album from 2022?

• 11:41Speaker 05

  Age of Apathy.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay. Was it an old song or did all that album kind of come together just right before that time? Right before that time.

• 11:50Speaker 05

  That was a pandemic album. So pandemic started, what, 2020? Was living in Brooklyn inside, you know, as we all were for many months and feeling like, all right, maybe this is like the end of my music career because I just felt, I don't know, I just felt so, as everybody did.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Does it even matter?

• 12:07Speaker 05

  Does it even matter? And like, what am I gonna, like, what do I have to write about? Or like, I just had no, I felt like I really had no voice during those first six months of the pandemic.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  And you had a two?

• 12:18Speaker 05

  A two-year-old.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  A two-year-old.

• 12:20Speaker 05

  And it's funny because looking back on it, it seems like she was already seven then, but she wasn't. When I watched videos, I'm like, oh, I had a literal baby.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:27Speaker 05

  We were home. I'd just finished up two years touring with I'm With Her, this band that I have with Sarah Watkins and Sarah Jrose. And I knew I wanted to make another solo album, but I was just like, there's no way it's gonna happen. And then in September of that year, we went down to Florida where my husband has a job. With the orchestra in Orlando, we had a house there and we said, let's go down for a couple of months because he was able to do concerts outdoors and we had a little bit more space. And we got there and I set up a little office, music room, and I had more time, more space, more sunlight, and the songs just kind of started coming.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Isn't that the best?

• 13:03Speaker 05

  It really was. It was a real, just like, positive moment in my life. Also, I feel in many ways like that's actually the time period that I really became a songwriter, weirdly.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 13:14Speaker 05

  It started to, I just started to feel like, okay, I can, I like doing this and I want to do this.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  And you felt like you have something to say?

• 13:20Speaker 05

  I felt like I had something to say and it felt very authentic. Where in the past, like, I don't know, it always felt like a little bit of a, I don't want to say a slog, because it's something that I love to do, but I'm not one of those songwriters who talks about like my process and...

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Well, I can relate to that, actually. I think, I think for me, like, in the beginning, writing songs was something that I really wanted to prove I could do, and I could do it, but they didn't have the same feeling all the time. And then when they did, when they were the quick ones that just came and that were pure feeling, those were the good ones.

• 13:55Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  And then the ones that I was trying to write were not good. Is that similar?

• 14:00Speaker 05

  Totally similar. And I think, I think also coming from, like, the music school background where I knew I could, you know, I was a singer. I was like, okay, I'm a singer and this is what I can do and I'm confident that this is my skill, but I never...

• 14:13Speaker 00

  You can technically do it.

• 14:14Speaker 05

  Right, but I never felt like, oh, I'm a, I don't know. And I still feel like a little bit of a fraud to say, I'm a songwriter, I'm a singer-songwriter.

• 14:20Speaker 00

  No.

• 14:21Speaker 05

  I mean, kind of.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  You do?

• 14:23Speaker 05

  Like, less so now, after...

• 14:24Speaker 00

  After that.

• 14:25Speaker 05

  This kind of batch of songs. And it was, it was really a fun record to make remotely. Like, it was the first time I'd really done a project like that, where I took my time, it was totally remote, I worked with Joe Henry, this great producer.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  I love Joe Henry.

• 14:36Speaker 05

  He's the greatest. And it was, he was just...

• 14:38Speaker 00

  You worked with him remotely, though?

• 14:39Speaker 05

  Remotely, yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Like, he was afar.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  He was in Portland, Maine.

• 14:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:43Speaker 05

  All the tracks, I would make these tracks in Florida at Full Sail University. Which is this great recording school down the street from me and worked with this awesome producer named Darren Schneider and I would just go in there like every day. Literally, I would sit in the live room with a mask on and he would be in the control room with a mask on. I never saw this guy's face until six months after I knew him.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  And then it looked weird.

• 15:04Speaker 05

  Well, no, it was like-

• 15:05Speaker 00

  It always looks weird when they take their mask off.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  Totally, totally. And we made this record and Joe sent the tracks to, you know, Jay Bellrose and David Pellech and all these cool people in LA. Anyway, I love, I love that process.

• 15:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a totally different way to do it.

• 15:20Speaker 05

  Totally different way to do it. And it was so fun then to get to play the songs live and do the whole, I don't know, just it felt like a, emerging from COVID, these songs will always like feel special to me because they were the first things that I played live on stage after, you know-

• 15:33Speaker 00

  With a full band?

• 15:33Speaker 05

  With a full band after like a year of not doing anything.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  I love it. I also think there's something weirdly freeing about doing your part and knowing that you just did it and it's great and now it's done. And there's something really annoyingly weird. Sometimes it's magical and sometimes it's weird. When you go into a studio with a song that you know and you just are giving it over to people to make into something and you have to really let go of a lot.

• 16:00Speaker 05

  Totally. Completely that. And I think that this process for this record because every, because it was just me and I would send them out and I wasn't, I had no idea what they were gonna play on it. Or you know when like you send a track, especially to a drummer or a bass player?

• 16:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:13Speaker 05

  And they do something and you're like, that's totally not how it should have sounded.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  I really want to hear a backbeat now.

• 16:20Speaker 05

  But, but like because everything was so slow, there were a couple of songs I remember when Jay would send something back and I'm like, I was completely confused, but then now it makes so much sense and that is how the song was always supposed to be. But, all that said, playing songs, I love doing different versions of songs. Like it's something I love to do in general, just playing them solo or playing them slower, faster, with a duo or-

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Keeping them alive.

• 16:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. Keeping them alive, changing them up.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  It's fun to do things differently though and to just mix it up, I think.

• 16:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, and not be attached to the recorded version of something. That's really important to me.

• 16:51Speaker 00

  I, me too. I like that. And then you live in Florida still?

• 16:56Speaker 05

  I still live in Florida.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  And you still live there?

• 16:58Speaker 05

  I still live there and I'm like, I feel like I should be president of the tourism board or something. Not that the Orlando Tourism Board needs literally any help.

• 17:09Speaker 00

  That's true. Would you have a season pass to Disney World?

• 17:10Speaker 05

  I don't. I've only been to Disney World one time and it was in 2021 and went with-

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Okay, so she was like-

• 17:18Speaker 05

  She had just turned four.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Four, okay. That's a good age to go.

• 17:21Speaker 05

  Well, we went to Animal Kingdom with my good friend Chris Deely, who I know is a friend of yours as well, and his family. And it was a bit of a hilarious day. It was still during COVID. It was still, you know, masked at Disney. And my husband, the day before, had stepped on a piece of glass and had five stitches in the bottom of his foot.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Great day for walking.

• 17:39Speaker 05

  So he was literally in a rascal at Disney World and it was fun. We've not gone back. We went to Universal for my daughter's birthday last week.

• 17:48Speaker 00

  In LA?

• 17:49Speaker 05

  In Orlando. There's also-

• 17:52Speaker 00

  There's one-

• 17:52Speaker 05

  Is there one in LA, Harry Potter World?

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 05

  Okay, well, we went to the one in Orlando.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  I know, because we've gone the last few years with our kids because we were too lazy to go to Disneyland because it's a little bit of a trek.

• 18:02Speaker 05

  It's too far, yeah. So we just did that. But we're not, I'm not really a theme park person, but I will say that Orlando-

• 18:06Speaker 00

  But if I go, I have to call you and go with you.

• 18:08Speaker 05

  If you go to Orlando, you have to just-

• 18:10Speaker 00

  And make you go again.

• 18:11Speaker 05

  Come to my house and-

• 18:12Speaker 00

  You're like, I'm not going to Disney World.

• 18:13Speaker 05

  We can go kayaking, we can go biking, we can do the things that people like don't think you can do in Florida, but that you actually can, like the outdoors.

• 18:20Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 18:21Speaker 05

  It's great. It's a great place to live. I do miss New York, though, being here today. I'm like, oh.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  It's also a beautiful fall day.

• 18:26Speaker 05

  I know. I was in Prospect Park this morning. I was like, oh, I do miss this crisp-

• 18:30Speaker 00

  If you'd come a month and a half ago, when you can still smell the garbage juice on the sidewalk, you know?

• 18:35Speaker 05

  No, no, thank you. No. We have garbage in Florida, too, but-

• 18:38Speaker 00

  It's crazy how you can miss a place and, but nothing is perfect anywhere.

• 18:44Speaker 05

  Nothing is perfect. And I think that that's the thing. And just also embracing, I never ever thought I would live in the South in general, and especially not Florida. I'm from Massachusetts, as I said, and that's like the most opposite place in many ways, I think, to where I live now. But there are things that are similar and it's a great community and, yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you make friends where you go and then-

• 19:06Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  And it's, home is where you are.

• 19:09Speaker 05

  Exactly. Home is where you are. And I think that home is like, it's- Being from a social scene in New York and in Boston and even in Nashville and going to music school and having so many musician friends, it is nice actually to have a social scene that's not comprised primarily of musicians, just like a variety of perspectives that I think has been interesting in the last couple of years.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  That's nice.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, to people be like, wait, what? What's your life like? What do you do?

• 19:32Speaker 00

  That's interesting.

• 19:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, and still be able to tease me about it and, you know.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like you have a double life.

• 19:35Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  A little bit. And you still travel a lot.

• 19:38Speaker 05

  I still travel, and Orlando is a great airport, so that's the other thing.

• 19:40Speaker 00

  That's great. Yeah, you were telling me that there's a flight to Europe and everything.

• 19:43Speaker 05

  There's multiple flights. There's flights because of Disney World, there's flights to quite literally every single random airport you've never heard of.

• 19:51Speaker 00

  That's so huge when you're thinking about being a traveling musician and moving out of a big city.

• 19:56Speaker 05

  It's honestly Orlando, like you can go direct to Amsterdam, direct to London, direct to Paris, they're just starting a Paris flight, there's all these flights to South America, but then there's also little flights to like Arkansas, Northwest Arkansas Regional Airport, or Burlington, Vermont, or like, you know, you have a one-off gig.

• 20:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 05

  And like recently I had a one-off in Burlington, and I was like, great, I can go direct on this random Breeze Airways flight.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  That's a little secret Lucky thing.

• 20:18Speaker 05

  It kind of is, yeah, I mean, like, it's still crazy, it's still a lot of travel, but it is convenient.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 20:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  And then, are you here to do a show? Did I miss a show?

• 20:30Speaker 05

  No shows, just Thanksgiving.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  Oh, that's right.

• 20:33Speaker 05

  I'm done with shows for the year.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 20:35Speaker 05

  I just had my last show.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  Does it feel good to you to have like a break? Or do you get antsy like me?

• 20:41Speaker 05

  I get antsy when I'm not like doing stuff, but this time of year is gonna be nice to, like, next year's gonna be so busy. I said it's like, there's new shit coming, and I just finished up a cycle, and I'm like ready to move on from it and get on to the next thing, because I'm really excited about the next thing.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  But you have stuff in the future planned, just not right at this moment.

• 21:04Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Which is a nice place to be, because you can relax and know that you're not done forever and you have something to do.

• 21:10Speaker 05

  Exactly, and it's very short, it's like in five weeks, it'll be kind of starting up again. But to have the holidays off, and also my husband travels as well a ton for work, so we're kind of always juggling.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  Ships.

• 21:21Speaker 05

  The, yeah, exactly, so like, I'm home, he's gone, he gets home, I go.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:27Speaker 05

  And it's a lot, and December is gonna be insane, like, he's gonna be gone.

• 21:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 21:32Speaker 05

  A ton.

• 21:33Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 21:34Speaker 05

  And then we're gonna meet back up in Massachusetts.

• 21:35Speaker 00

  Nice, holiday time.

• 21:36Speaker 05

  Exactly, holiday time.

• 21:37Speaker 00

  Do you bring your daughter with you? Ever?

• 21:40Speaker 05

  Not often. She toured with us a ton when she was a baby. Um, with us, meaning my band with Sarah and Sarah. We, Sarah Watkins and I had babies at the same time.

• 21:50Speaker 00

  So did you have both babies?

• 21:52Speaker 05

  Both babies on the tour bus.

• 21:53Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 21:53Speaker 05

  For like a year and a half. And it was

• 21:55Speaker 00

  I've done that.

• 21:56Speaker 05

  Really, really special. It was amazing. And yeah, like it, people are always like, that must've been so hard. But honestly, it was, it was really like easier in many ways, I think.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 05

  Cause

• 22:06Speaker 00

  Well, it depends.

• 22:07Speaker 05

  It depends, yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 00

  It depends if you're getting up in the middle of the night every night and at five in the morning. Or if you have a little help with that.

• 22:14Speaker 05

  It's like, I feel like we had a great nanny, but we were getting up in the middle of the night and early in the morning.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  You were still doing that.

• 22:21Speaker 05

  But also it was because it was always two of us.

• 22:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 05

  So with the two moms and you don't ever feel that like lonely, like I'm by myself doing this. Like, I don't know, that, that made a huge difference. Just like

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, community.

• 22:36Speaker 05

  Community, exactly. Like walking out into the front lounge at 5:30 in the morning and like Sarah's there with Sam. And like the, we're just like practically dead and the kids are in their little clip-on high chairs. You know, goo goo gaga.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:50Speaker 05

  Eating oatmeal from the microwave. Like, you know, it's

• 22:52Speaker 00

  It's so sweet.

• 22:53Speaker 05

  It was really sweet.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  And then other Sarah gets up, rolls out of bed at 10:00 in the morning.

• 22:56Speaker 05

  And they're like me and me.

• 22:57Speaker 00

  She's like, whoa, ladies, hello.

• 22:59Speaker 05

  She got married this past year, so we're like, yeah, you know, she's, she's behind us for sure. But it was, I mean, now though, with my daughter who's in first grade, she has too much stuff going on.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  Already.

• 23:09Speaker 05

  Like in her own life. And she does like to come and she came with us last weekend to, to my last show, which was in Virginia with my husband's orchestra. And it was a really fun show. My daughter came, she was at the show. She didn't want to watch because she was like, I've already seen the show so many times. So she stayed backstage with her friend, stayed up till 11, passed out on the couch. Like the guy at the venue gave her an entire like king size Hershey's bar at like 10:50. Passed out, get up at 6:00 in the morning, fly home. She's been, she was a wreck for like a week after that.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's interesting. I feel like now my favorite thing to do is to take, cause my kids are eight and 10. So they're a little bit older, so they're a little bit more self-sufficient in a way.

• 23:46Speaker 05

  They don't need a full-time nanny on the road.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  No, I, and I've taken a, I've taken them individually on like little one-on-one trips and left the other with my husband and Those have been, for me, the most special because also I don't get a lot of one-on-one time with them.

• 24:02Speaker 05

  Right.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  So it's nice. But yeah, the person left behind is always pretty bummed.

• 24:06Speaker 05

  Do they like the bus? Do your kids like the tour bus?

• 24:08Speaker 00

  They love the bus. I mean, the bunk beds are just...

• 24:10Speaker 05

  I know, it's like the best.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's the best. But I take them for a little bit in the summers now, but not the whole time. And it's easier to split it up and have some time where it's just me doing it. And then some time where they're there.

• 24:21Speaker 05

  It's hard at summer.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  But not all.

• 24:23Speaker 05

  Right.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  Because that's too much.

• 24:25Speaker 05

  Because one of the nice things I think about, and people always like, love to talk about juggling, like being a mom on the road and all this, like, which to me, like, is not, I don't know, that's not something I really talk about that much.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  No, me neither.

• 24:36Speaker 05

  Because it's not that interesting to me. But I feel when I'm on tour, like, I love, in general, I love hanging out. Like, I love, that's one of the reasons that it's so fun to be a musician.

• 24:45Speaker 00

  It's like a little, it's like a working vacation.

• 24:47Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  You want to stay up late and have a drink.

• 24:48Speaker 05

  You want to stay up late and have a drink with your friends.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:50Speaker 05

  And like, and just hang with the band. And like, and everybody's in their pajamas and you like, have a beer and some smart food from the vending machine. Like, that's the, those are the most fun parts of tour for me sometimes.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 25:00Speaker 05

  And if I don't have that, like, I wouldn't want to have my family out with me all the time. Because then it kind of takes away that autonomy of like...

• 25:06Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 25:06Speaker 05

  You know what I mean? Maybe it's just going back to your, my youth or something. But I still, I still love that aspect of the road.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, it's half of being there.

• 25:13Speaker 05

  Of course, yeah. And it's all, it's all...

• 25:15Speaker 00

  It's the fun half.

• 25:15Speaker 05

  It's the fun half, right. It's like all the connection.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  If you can do it without overdoing it, it's the best.

• 25:19Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 25:20Speaker 00

  It's definitely part of the appeal.

• 25:22Speaker 05

  For sure. And for going on the road. And for being away, you have to have that, all that fun stuff to make it worth doing.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  Otherwise, it's too sad.

• 25:28Speaker 05

  Right. Because you're missing other stuff.

• 25:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, agreed.

• 25:30Speaker 05

  And I've heard that it's harder as your kids get older to leave because you're missing more stuff, but...

• 25:34Speaker 00

  I think it's mostly harder because they tell you they're mad.

• 25:37Speaker 05

  Right.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  Instead of just not really understanding what's happening.

• 25:40Speaker 05

  Oh, bye.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:42Speaker 05

  I don't know, and it's probably the same for you, but when it's been constant, like, I feel like for my child, it's, her whole life is this. So it's not like weird to her necessarily that we're gone, or that my husband's gone, or that we kind of switch off.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  No, it's great. And everybody gets their time.

• 25:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:59Speaker 05

  And we do end up getting a lot of that sort of special, like, mom-daughter time or dad-daughter time.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  That's nice.

• 26:03Speaker 05

  It's good.

• 26:04Speaker 00

  The, the thing that was fun this last summer, for the first time, they wanted to watch the show.

• 26:09Speaker 05

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  Like, actually, I mean, growing up, they've always come to soundcheck and they, they kind of know some songs.

• 26:14Speaker 05

  Do they play? Do they play?

• 26:15Speaker 00

  They play, but, you know. Ish. They're taking piano. They hate it. They complain, but then they love it. Right. You know, they complain about everything and then they love it. And I'm like, you have no idea how lucky you are to have any opportunities, you know? But um, yeah, they started watching the shows and then they stayed and watched like a good string of maybe a week and a half of shows. Every night? Every night. That's so sweet. And I was like, you guys are so sweet. You don't have to. They're like, no, I want to. And then at one point, my son said, yeah, I'm not gonna watch tonight. I've already seen it. You're like, he's over it now. But it was nice. That was really fun. That's so sweet. Feeling like they really got it. Do they ever want to be on stage with you? Like, is that a thing that they want to do?

• 26:57Speaker 00

  Um, not really. I think when they were little, we used to have them come up for soundcheck and like try to play or sing. And then we realized that was breeding obnoxiousness. Yes, I completely. So we stopped that. Yep. Like, you don't get to think that you could come on stage and like play without practicing. Yep, yep. So that's over. I'm in that exact zone right now. I'm like, get off the stage. It's cute when they were one. No longer cute. And once they're like, they're like doing their sassy thing, you're like, no. No, no more. Get away from here. Okay, go practice. Right, yeah. Get good, get good.

• 27:29Speaker 01

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• 27:57Speaker 06

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.

• 28:08Speaker 07

  AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of

• 28:20Speaker 07

  What AI is touching data it is accessing and where?

• 28:24Speaker 06

  Here's a full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.

• 28:28Speaker 08

  Hey, it's Covino and Rich Davis from Covino and Rich. Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability and it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks. Combining power for work, tech for adventures and style in between. Built on reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which can mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  You want to do another song?

• 29:03Speaker 03

  Let's do it.

• 29:04Speaker 00

  I was wondering if you wanted to do Crisis Next.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  Let's do it, yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 00

  Yeah?

• 29:09Speaker 03

  This is like this whole-

• 29:10Speaker 00

  This is from your new album.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  From my new album, All My Friends. Where's my pick?

• 29:14Speaker 00

  Let's try this song and then I want you to tell me about it.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  I might need a couple runs on this one.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  Great.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Gather round, girls, let me tell you about the crisis that is here. At the end I will see our final victory.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  I know that we don't all believe that it'll be what it'll be. But a crisis tears indeed, like a bull gathering his feet.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  If we fail to act upon it, might mean the chance has been lost and we will have to wait to win.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  It's 1916, we're talking war and battle cries. Oh, women, dry your eyes. You gotta rise up and fight.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  You may be troubled and bewildered and stricken with grief. But you can solve it. Fix these knotty problems while you try to breathe.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  If you fail to act upon it, might mean the chance has been lost and we will have to wait to win.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  Oh, America, look up at that North Star. One day it'll come down. The time has come to shout aloud in every city and village and town, "The woman's ever struck, the woman's ever's down."

• 32:05Speaker 03

  If you fail to act upon it, might mean the chance has been lost.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  That was great. That was cool. Yeah. That was great. That was cool. This song is great. It's so intense. It's, it's, um, your whole, whole album is sort of inspired by the suffrage movement? Yes, it's, it's my like, um, concept album that I never thought I would ever do something like this, but I did. Toward it for a year, uh, which was obviously a kind of crazy time to be doing an album about suffrage and... But is the time, the reason that you thought of it? Like, what sparked it? Not really. So, so it's, this, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about a minute ago. When I moved to Orlando in 2020, my husband's orchestra had commissioned me to write a

• 33:03Speaker 03

  20-minute piece for orchestra and me and orchestra, inspired by the 19th Amendment. A lot of orchestras were doing that. Oh, he had, they had already asked you to do this? They had already asked me to do that. So I, so it was gonna be in the 2020, 21 season in Orlando.

• 33:31Speaker 05

  That's great.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  That was cool.

• 33:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:35Speaker 00

  That was great.

• 33:36Speaker 05

  That was cool.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  This song is great. It's so intense. It's, it's, um, your whole, whole album is sort of inspired by the suffrage movement?

• 33:46Speaker 05

  Yes, it's, it's my like, um, concept album that I never thought I would ever do something like this, but I did, toured it for a year, uh, which was obviously a kind of crazy time to be doing an album about suffrage and...

• 34:00Speaker 00

  But is the time, the reason that you thought of it, like what sparked it?

• 34:04Speaker 05

  Not really. So, so it's, this, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about a minute ago. When I moved to Orlando in 2020, my husband's orchestra had commissioned me to write a 20-minute piece for orchestra and me and orchestra inspired by the 19th Amendment. A lot of orchestras were doing that.

• 34:22Speaker 00

  Oh, he had, they had already asked you to do this?

• 34:23Speaker 05

  They had already asked me to do that. So I, so it was gonna be in the 2020, 21 season in Orlando.

• 34:30Speaker 05

  When they were opening their new hall and it was going to be this big thing before COVID, they asked me to do it. And I was like, great, I'll do it. It's a 20 minute, you know, between 20 and 30 minute piece of music. And it seemed like a heavy lift, but I was excited to have the challenge and to write some sort of conceptual piece. It had no parameter other than it had to be inspired by suffrage. Anyway, fast forward, COVID happened, told my husband, I was like, there's no way I'm going to do this. Like, I don't have time.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  It seems like a huge undertaking.

• 34:57Speaker 05

  It was a huge undertaking, but I somehow, like, again, got to Orlando, got inspired, had all the space and was like, fine, I can, I can do this. Also, my husband was like, you said you were doing it. You're doing it.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Don't back out.

• 35:08Speaker 05

  You can't back out. And I had gotten this book called The Woman's Hour by this writer named Elaine Weiss. And I'm really not a big nonfiction person, but this book is really, sort of reads like a novel.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Cool.

• 35:20Speaker 05

  And kind of latched on to this one character in particular, Carrie Chapman Cat. And a lot of these pieces are kind of inspired by some speeches and letters that she gave. And it's, I've been very careful to say like, this is not a historical album. It's not, I mean, this is not like, I'm not presenting this as like a thesis academic.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 05

  It's like a folk singer's version of, you know, this moment in history. And it's so wild because some people have been like, well, why did you choose her and not this?

• 35:47Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:48Speaker 05

  Okay, back off. Like, this is just my take on this one thing. And it's also my own experience as a woman and mother and voter. And, you know, it's like a pretty loose concept. But this song, Crisis, that we just played, was taken from a speech that she gave in 1916, where she's talking about the crisis, like the crisis of women not having the right to vote and the movement of people who were against it. And I just found so much of what she said. And of course, I obviously changed it and made it into this kind of ballad folk singing type of thing, where I kind of imagined her gathering the suffragists around the fireplace with a guitar and saying like, you know, let's, let's get to the bottom of this. But when she, the end of the song, she's talking about interviewing

• 36:31Speaker 05

  a man in West Virginia and saying, you know, what do you think about suffrage? And should women, should women be? Enfranchised and given the right to vote. And he says, well, no, we've been, we've been keeping women down so long. Like, we're not gonna, it would just be weird if we stopped that.

• 36:45Speaker 00

  What a weird take on it, right?

• 36:47Speaker 05

  Totally. And then his wife is asked, she's standing right next to him, and she basically says, we've been down so long, we gotta stay this way. And it's, and that really

• 36:54Speaker 00

  So crazy.

• 36:55Speaker 05

  Hit me, just as a person living in the modern age. And funnily enough, writing this in 2021, it's like, it's almost gotten, gotten worse in the three years that have passed since then, that there are still so many women who, who do feel like, okay, we've been down, we have to stay down. And I think that that's when, you know, it was wild doing the song night after night. And there was a shift over the summer when the, you know, the candidates changed and we all of a sudden had a, a woman to, you know, on, on Kamala Harris to vote for and to, to be excited about. And when I got to the end of that song over the summer, right after she announced her candidacy, and it was like, the woman's hours dropped, the woman's hours now. It really felt like it gave, it gave it new life.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:39Speaker 05

  And it was really exciting.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  I like that about songs as well. They, they sort of cycle in and out of, of new life because of the circumstance.

• 37:46Speaker 05

  They do, and they really have. We've done it twice since the election. And that, that also was, I was really nervous about that. I was really nervous about doing it after the election at all, just, just to do a piece like this, which is very

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:58Speaker 05

  I mean, it is, obviously, like, it's nonpartisan, the piece itself, and the concept of suffrage is not affiliated necessarily with a political party. But it, it, it almost felt more important to sing it after, after the fact.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  But when you get to that part, even now, it's probably still

• 38:15Speaker 05

  It still feels

• 38:16Speaker 00

  Important.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, those words still mean a lot.

• 38:19Speaker 05

  They have a lot of weight.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. They're not ever gonna not.

• 38:22Speaker 05

  They're not gonna go away. Exactly. Exactly.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  That's amazing. Yeah, I love this one.

• 38:26Speaker 05

  Thanks.

• 38:59Speaker 06

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, affordable. So over time, more and more of your operations rely on it. Then one day, the terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today rely on all sorts of third-party systems: cloud platforms, data pipelines,

• 39:43Speaker 06

  AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Ana Paula Assis Anaxas CIO, Giovanni Daniele, two people who think about these questions every day. Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 40:24Speaker 08

  Hey, it's Covino and Rich Davis from Covino and Rich. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks. Combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. Built on reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which can mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  So when you did the piece for the orchestra that started all this, was it... which song was it?

• 41:05Speaker 05

  It was the five songs from the record. So the first one, "All My Friends," Crisis, Daughters, and then War Measure and America Come.

• 41:14Speaker 00

  Okay, and then you filled it out with the rest?

• 41:16Speaker 05

  And I filled it out with a bunch more songs.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  Okay, so you did a lot of it for that. Is that why there's so many orchestrations on the record then?

• 41:23Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  So is that the orchestra? Who wrote those?

• 41:27Speaker 05

  The Knights played, my husband's orchestra, a New York chamber group called The Knights, played on the record, and then an amazing brass quartet called The Westerlys. So I don't know if you know those guys, but you should, they're incredible. They're New York based. They rewrote the brass parts for themselves and then some woodwind players down in Orlando. And I worked with an orchestrator, a young woman named Tanner Porter. And it was a really cool process to like create these songs. And I would make demos of them with like piano and guitars and electric guitars. And then she would take those like melody lines and she orchestrated it beautifully. And really, it's really playable. The charts are great. I've done it with tons of orchestras now and I feel.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  So cool.

• 42:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, she's incredible and I'm so glad that I got to work with her on this.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  What's it like to play with an orchestra?

• 42:14Speaker 05

  It's.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  Is this something you've done a lot now?

• 42:17Speaker 05

  I've done it a lot now and every experience is different.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:21Speaker 05

  It often.

• 42:22Speaker 00

  Like playing with people in general, everyone's different?

• 42:25Speaker 05

  That's true, but it's, we've done it in a variety of different contexts, like big orchestra, small orchestra, lots of rehearsal, no rehearsal. We were at the Kennedy Center a couple of weeks ago. I was doing a double bill with Bonnie Light Horseman. And it, my rehearsal, the show was at eight. And my rehearsal, it was, I had a 50 minute set and I had a 60 minute rehearsal at five o'clock and the show was at eight. So it was like five to six.

• 42:51Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 42:53Speaker 05

  Show at eight, like it was, it's crazy. Like you just, you basically just run through everything and hope that you can hear and hope that.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  Well, it's funny because I'm so used to being like, well, they'll just follow me if I, but with an orchestra, is that possible?

• 43:07Speaker 05

  It, I think it's been really crucial to, for me to be super confident on the parts and like know that I can lead it. And, but see, this is also a funny dynamic between my husband and me because of course he's a conductor.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  Oh, gotcha.

• 43:22Speaker 05

  And I'm a singer. And so we both think we're the leader of the group. And we've, we've done it together three times, this piece, four times, I think. And there's, there's like a funny, you know, he's like, I have to lead. And I'm like, no, I have to lead.

• 43:35Speaker 00

  Oh, I want to, I want to go to dinner with you guys so bad now.

• 43:39Speaker 05

  It's that's that's kind of like our relationship in a nutshell.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  That sounds great.

• 43:42Speaker 05

  I have to leave, I have to leave. It's the best.

• 43:44Speaker 00

  That's fine.

• 43:45Speaker 05

  It is what it is.

• 43:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, but no, but it's really fun. And actually, he, my husband, Eric, was a huge part of the making of the record and helped me produce it. And I definitely could not have done any of it without him, so.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a nice collaboration, you know?

• 43:57Speaker 05

  And we don't work together that often, so.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Okay, so it's nice.

• 44:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was really nice.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  Frot and nice?

• 44:03Speaker 05

  No, mostly awesome. I'm kind of teasing. It was, it's, it really was mostly awesome. And I love doing this piece with him because he knows it really well as a conductor, which is always.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  It's hard. I mean, I was trying to learn a few of the songs and I was like, this is not easy music to learn. I want to try "Daughters," but I have to warn you, I'm the least confident on it.

• 44:24Speaker 05

  We can try it and then we don't have to.

• 44:25Speaker 00

  We could try it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I learned it. I just, I don't even know what some of the chords are, but I kind of.

• 44:31Speaker 05

  I also don't really know what any of the chords are in this song.

• 44:34Speaker 00

  Well, it's kind of abstract, which is also why it might be totally fine.

• 44:40Speaker 05

  The only parts of this that I feel like is weird is that the first time into the chorus, it's seven, the second time it's six.

• 44:48Speaker 00

  I'm just gonna follow you.

• 44:48Speaker 05

  Just follow me. It's pretty.

• 44:49Speaker 00

  I'm not gonna count.

• 44:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, don't count.

• 44:53Speaker 05

  All right.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  I asked Brian Blade, my drummer, who's one of the best drummers. Do you know Brian?

• 44:58Speaker 05

  Of course, yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's amazing.

• 45:00Speaker 05

  I've only played with him once, actually, at an orchestra, at an orchestra show.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 05

  In, at the Kennedy Center.

• 45:04Speaker 00

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 45:05Speaker 05

  But he's like, I mean, he's, he's a god.

• 45:07Speaker 00

  He's like the best in the world to me and to many. And I asked him once, I was like, what are you counting this as? He's like, oh, I don't count. I was like, okay, cool. I'm good.

• 45:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  We'll find it.

• 45:19Speaker 05

  I also don't count in this one, because if I try, if I try to count, it's like,

• 45:22Speaker 00

  Just feel it.

• 45:22Speaker 05

  it stops to make sense to me.

• 45:27Speaker 05

  I don't even know what chord this is. I really don't even know what key this song is in.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  Me either. I'm just gonna play the one note I know.

• 45:37Speaker 03

  Here in the dark

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Everything that once was becomes a tiny spark Looking back from the next century What'll they see? Their names are the girls who laid the stones Names long forgotten, never scribbled in the tomes But they were strong and indestructible Their hearts were full

• 46:14Speaker 03

  Now the edifice of men's liberty It is almost complete Protected and serene are rich women still A home in them, a battle and skill Growing bold, they're in their treachery Selling for free They're lost on the land of the fire Their sisters cross the land to declare them quick to die Saying don't trust 'em with the privilege

• 46:57Speaker 03

  Don't even try Or ever be ready for the victory Or sitting with the country as it pleads The enemies of a cause try to stop us But before the vote is won, we can't leave the fight To the daughters of the daughters So we go into the fray, show this bad Feel the fire and liberate

• 47:45Speaker 03

  Women in schools are counting houses. Shops and all the farms are all around us. They got babies crying at their breasts. Sun sinks in the west. The veins of these women are not filled with milk and water. These are mothers who hold American daughters. But they're not afraid.

• 48:18Speaker 03

  They're lying in wait.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  Listening for the pugil clouds to send their ear. Suffrage is the only way to end. The enemies of the coast try to stop us. But before the vote is won, we can't leave the fight. To the daughters of the daughters. So go into the fray. Show us back. Take the punches to our faces. Feel the fire in our bones. Delivering.

• 49:12Speaker 03

  When will we be ready for the victory? When will we be ready for the victory? When will we be ready for the victory?

• 49:45Speaker 05

  I had some really dope, magical, ethereal.

• 49:49Speaker 00

  It was weird. I was like, yeah, I don't know if I can do this with. And that was like the most fun.

• 49:52Speaker 05

  That was so cool. I loved that. Yeah, it was really like, that was a zone.

• 49:58Speaker 00

  I loved it.

• 49:59Speaker 05

  I loved doing that. God, you're such a great piano player.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  You are.

• 50:03Speaker 05

  Love jamming. This is.

• 50:04Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm no Bruce Hornsby, but.

• 50:06Speaker 05

  It's W W N J B.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  This would only be more fun if I was Bruce Hornsby.

• 50:10Speaker 05

  No, no, this is more fun to do it with you.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  Thank you. That was fun.

• 50:14Speaker 05

  It was so fun. And also just like the whole, this whole approach to like doing a podcast and making music like is, it's my dream. Like I love this. I'm not, I really, I'm not a big podcast person.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, totally.

• 50:29Speaker 05

  And the podcasts that I like are like music podcasts that are weird and cool and interesting. And you're 10 out of 10.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  Thank you. Well, I think that it's interesting because I've found that it's a little bit hard to get people to agree to do this because not everybody is comfortable doing it like this. But those who are, and I'm talking to you, are down for it, you know?

• 50:56Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 00

  Like Chris Thiele, this is his bread and butter, of course, but like, like certain people are just so into doing it this way and not precious about things. And that's when like the really magic stuff happens.

• 51:07Speaker 05

  Of course. I mean, yes, this is like, I'm also, I feel like in another life, I should have been in a jam band to like just.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  Same.

• 51:15Speaker 05

  Have like, I love live recordings. Like I'm happy to have every night be recorded and like put out because it's like, it's just a moment.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's got its own thing.

• 51:22Speaker 05

  It's just a moment. It's like everything is just an experience of what's happening in the room with people. And whether it's just you and somebody else or an audience or like, I don't know. I just feel like there's, there's something so cool about that. And I love the studio and I love making records, but I'm definitely much more of a live, like I'm much, I don't know, I'm more into the live experience.

• 51:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, the studio can be tricky.

• 51:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, because I feel like you then can get so like. This is not in tune, or this has to be perfect, or I want to do this again.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  Or like, we're trying to get the ultimate version of this.

• 51:51Speaker 05

  Right.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  That's what's kind of fun about this podcast is that we're, you've already got your ultimate versions of multiple versions of whatever. So we're just doing like a whole side thing.

• 52:00Speaker 05

  Exactly. And it can exist in this cool little sphere. How did you get the idea to do this podcast?

• 52:05Speaker 00

  I can't remember.

• 52:06Speaker 05

  I know this is you supposed to be interviewing me, but I'm curious.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, go ahead. I'm down for it. I feel like it was before, it was only before the pandemic started. And I think me and Sarah Oda, my butt in there, my butt in there, my buddy in there, in this, I feel like we were talking about it. She might have a totally different story. It might be completely her idea. I can't remember. I thought it was an idea. I had to sit with people and do it. Cause for a while I was doing songs with people, releasing singles instead of doing albums.

• 52:36Speaker 05

  Right.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  And like, I did a session with Jeff Tweedy for a few days and we did like three or four songs. And I did some stuff with Tank in the Banga, Tank from Tank in the Bangas.

• 52:46Speaker 05

  She was on Live from Here once when I was on.

• 52:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's amazing.

• 52:48Speaker 05

  She is so.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Teriyana.

• 52:50Speaker 05

  And I actually had heard a thing that you did with her.

• 52:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 05

  From Thomas. And I was at Thomas's studio. That's like our mutual, our main mutual.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, that's right. And I did something with Thomas and I was like releasing these and it was really fun. But then I thought, well, what if I did it something like this? I was also thinking of a way, of course, with small kids to, that's kind of why I started releasing singles was so I could have a, like, I could still tour a little bit, but not do these big album cycle tours.

• 53:16Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  And still have like some new material to play.

• 53:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  So that's what the sort of thinking was. And then this is just another way to meet people and collaborate.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, and be.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Be home.

• 53:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, be home. And then still get to make music and be in a community.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:29Speaker 05

  People can come to you. It's great.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  It's pretty great because I've connected with a lot of people who I already knew, but have made deeper connections with, or met people that I've. Never played with. Yeah. So fun. It's awesome. Yeah, we're all just one big happy family. So there's so many little connections. It's very cool. Yeah, but it's funny. There are certain people I'm like, oh, I would love to do this with them. But some people just don't get it. They're like, well, we can do it remotely. I was like, no, that's not going to be possible. How would you do this remotely? You can't. That's why I was like, you don't get it. Or you're not down for it. And that's fine. It's a jam. It's just a jam. It's just a jam. Yeah. Playing along. A rapid jam. Playing along. Dorkiest theme song ever. Very cute.

• 54:11Speaker 09

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 54:42Speaker 10

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• 55:11Speaker 11

  This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla sedan with the latest features N-TEC or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops while Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at trade-in. Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  I also wanted to try Phoenix.

• 55:52Speaker 05

  Let's try it.

• 55:52Speaker 00

  Do you feel like it?

• 55:53Speaker 05

  I would love to.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  This one is fast.

• 55:58Speaker 05

  We can do it a little slower.

• 55:59Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no. Don't slow down for me.

• 56:02Speaker 05

  There's this, um, did you ever watch New Girl?

• 56:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, love it.

• 56:07Speaker 05

  I also love it and it's one of my husband Eric's favorite shows. He's watched the entire series.

• 56:11Speaker 00

  That's adorable.

• 56:12Speaker 05

  He's watched the entire series three times.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  I mean Winston, I would watch it all for Winston.

• 56:17Speaker 05

  He would watch it all for Schmidt because he's...

• 56:19Speaker 00

  Schmidt.

• 56:19Speaker 05

  There's this, there's this thing, the one, one episode where Schmidt does this thing where he's like, "I could do this all day." And like, Eric, we just say that all the time now.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  That's great. I love New Girl. That's a good, no, I can't watch that with the kids. I watch way too much inappropriate stuff with my kids, but...

• 56:36Speaker 05

  I just, I was just telling, we just watched some Harold and the Purple Crayon with, and Zoe Deschanel is in it.

• 56:40Speaker 00

  The movie, yeah, yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 05

  And I was telling Ivy Jo, I was like, she's in a show that daddy likes. And I was like, maybe when you're 13, we can watch that.

• 56:46Speaker 00

  They talk about sex a lot in New Girl. I've watched a couple of episodes of Friends with the kids and even that is like, alright.

• 56:54Speaker 05

  We're still in like Bluey, so I feel like it's...

• 56:56Speaker 00

  We watch like Abbott. We watch Abbott Elementary, that's a good middle ground.

• 58:14Speaker 03

  Looking for forgiveness Looking in every cupboard in every room I'm bearing witness to the passing time Oh, but the clock is ticking Like an old man singing at the top of his lungs And the light is flickering, we're running out We're running out Fever's got me shaking It rises up like a road to me My fever's got me quick like a sin and a drink of water Put a cloth on my brow I soar like a phoenix from the ashes Put a pretty blanket down, I'm ready now

• 59:19Speaker 03

  Everybody's looking for somebody to blame The stages of sadness are making me I've stopped at anger, never felt the same They say they'll feed my scars, now the tears will dry I'm lying in the stars again Now I'm wondering where you are Where you are Where you are Where you are, where you are, where you are Fever's got me shaking It rises up like a road to me My fever's got me quick like a sin and a drink of water

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  Put a cloth on my brow I soar like a phoenix from the ashes Put a pretty blanket down, I'm ready now I'm ready now I'm ready now

• 1:00:33Speaker 00

  Wait, back to Irish for one second.

• 1:00:35Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:00:36Speaker 00

  Did you play Irish music?

• 1:00:39Speaker 05

  Not so much. I mean, like, my dad, I grew up around a lot of Irish folk music.

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:00:45Speaker 05

  And I like sing, you know, a bunch of Irish folk songs, but I never like played like real trad music. But I do, like, I'm from that world.

• 1:00:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 05

  From that. I played a lot of bluegrass. Like, my first band was a, like, old timey and bluegrass band.

• 1:00:57Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:00:57Speaker 05

  And still did a ton of traditional music in that world and some old Irish songs, but not in the, like, real, I didn't, I don't like play trad guitar anymore.

• 1:01:05Speaker 00

  Okay. But you went to fiddle camp?

• 1:01:08Speaker 05

  I taught at fiddle camp.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. Wait, wait, hold the phone.

• 1:01:11Speaker 05

  I didn't, like, go to fiddle camp as a, as a youth.

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  You taught fiddle?

• 1:01:16Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 1:01:17Speaker 05

  Like, singing and guitar.

• 1:01:17Speaker 00

  Got confused for a second. I got you.

• 1:01:19Speaker 05

  And the fiddle camp is like a whole...

• 1:01:20Speaker 00

  It's a thing.

• 1:01:21Speaker 05

  It's a whole world.

• 1:01:22Speaker 00

  Is it like a ren fair world, except it's different?

• 1:01:25Speaker 05

  It's more like a lot of people eating tempeh.

• 1:01:30Speaker 05

  And like, playing fiddle tunes, like, old time fiddle tunes. It's not really ren fairy. It's, it's hard to explain exact, there are many different types of fiddle camp also. But, um, in like the folk world, there's always like then a, a singing teacher.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:01:42Speaker 05

  And they've done a bunch of fiddle camps.

• 1:01:43Speaker 00

  It's not just fiddle players?

• 1:01:44Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:01:44Speaker 00

  Okay. That's so fun.

• 1:01:46Speaker 05

  There's always like singing and guitar and all that. It's really fun. It's really fun for kids.

• 1:01:50Speaker 00

  I want to go to fiddle camp.

• 1:01:51Speaker 05

  You should go to fiddle camp.

• 1:01:52Speaker 00

  What if I just went with all the kids? I'm not, I'm not afraid to be a kid.

• 1:01:55Speaker 05

  I mean, you should, you should do that. It'll be very folk-y. Do you like tempeh?

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  I have a fiddle.

• 1:01:59Speaker 05

  Do you like vegetarian food?

• 1:02:01Speaker 00

  I don't like tempeh. I do, I do, just not tempeh. But, um, I have a fiddle.

• 1:02:05Speaker 05

  Do it. Do you play any?

• 1:02:06Speaker 00

  I'm coming.

• 1:02:06Speaker 05

  Do you play any fiddle?

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  I tried. I, when I was pregnant, the first time I, I took up the, the fiddle. Somebody gave me this violin and I, I wanted to play it. I took from Charlie Burnham for a minute. Um, he's a fiddle player in New York.

• 1:02:17Speaker 05

  In New York?

• 1:02:17Speaker 00

  I mean, he plays violin. He's in the sort of jazz scene.

• 1:02:20Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:02:21Speaker 00

  But, um, where, where did we meet at 11th Street?

• 1:02:23Speaker 05

  It was like at a thing, like, um, Sam was there, Thomas, like Sam and Madonna, like that, like that adjacent world there, remember?

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  Ah, okay.

• 1:02:30Speaker 05

  I just, it was like somebody's...

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  It was like a fiddle birthday?

• 1:02:33Speaker 05

  I think it was like a Sunday night at 11th Street and you were there.

• 1:02:35Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:02:36Speaker 05

  Cassie Jenkins was there.

• 1:02:37Speaker 00

  It was a jam, though?

• 1:02:39Speaker 05

  I think it was like the Irish jam.

• 1:02:40Speaker 00

  The Irish jam. I remember that. That was a long time ago.

• 1:02:43Speaker 05

  It was a long, long, long, long, long time ago.

• 1:02:44Speaker 00

  Really long?

• 1:02:45Speaker 05

  Like many, many years ago.

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  At least 15.

• 1:02:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, like before anybody had kids and it was like probably 2:00 in the morning or something.

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  Maybe 3.

• 1:02:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, maybe. Maybe even later. That bar.

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  Kenny.

• 1:02:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, yes, exactly.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  I love Kenny.

• 1:02:58Speaker 05

  That's the bartender, right? Maybe he has like a sister named Eva or something.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Oh, he does?

• 1:03:02Speaker 05

  Maybe there was a bartender also named Eva?

• 1:03:04Speaker 00

  Okay. Yeah, it's an Irish bar.

• 1:03:06Speaker 05

  It's an Irish bar, yes, exactly. I love that place.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  I love it, too.

• 1:03:10Speaker 05

  I wish, see, this is what I've, that's what I really miss. When I think about like what I miss about New York, it's not just, it's also the fact that I'm not like 22 anymore. So I associate all of the things, like even if I still lived here, I would not be doing the things that I miss.

• 1:03:25Speaker 00

  Can I attest to that?

• 1:03:26Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  I will be your living testimony to being, you know, in your 40s with two kids. You do not do all those things that you used to do.

• 1:03:35Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  Even if you're right in the city.

• 1:03:37Speaker 05

  Right, yes, okay, so fair enough. I should just be happy that I don't have to have it tempt me.

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's interesting. Every once in a while, you'll get out and do something you maybe wouldn't have done, but usually it's something you would have come to town to do.

• 1:03:52Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  And you would have done it.

• 1:03:53Speaker 05

  Right, exactly. Like, yeah, like I'm gonna do next year.

• 1:03:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:56Speaker 05

  See Miranda July, do a speaking engagement again.

• 1:04:00Speaker 00

  Well, if you go see Miranda July, I will come with you. I'll even fly. And then we'll have a date. That would be fun.

• 1:04:06Speaker 05

  I can go direct anywhere, even if she's in Arkansas.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  That's right. You can fly direct anywhere.

• 1:04:09Speaker 05

  So it's a date. It's a date, no matter where.

• 1:04:42Speaker 06

  I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with Dr. Laura Jayhai of Cleveland Clinic about how advanced computing is helping shorten the path from medical discovery to treatment.

• 1:04:55Speaker 12

  The moment that there is a compound that someone in a lab thinks it would be effective to treat a certain disease, it takes about 10 to 13 years from that moment to when that drug is on a shelf for a patient. A big part of that gap could be computationally solved. Better simulation of compounds, designing drug trials that are more efficient, that would finish faster. That was the motivation to bring computational tools and technology closer to biomedical researchers.

• 1:05:30Speaker 06

  Learn more about how Cleveland Clinic and IBM are using AI and quantum computing to revolutionize biomedical research at ibm.com/smarttalks.

• 1:05:42Speaker 13

  Hey, it's Lunchbox from the Bobby Bones Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability, and it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features in tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or an adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops, while Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in. Get a deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:06:20Speaker 00

  This was so fun.

• 1:06:21Speaker 05

  This was the best.

• 1:06:22Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:06:23Speaker 05

  You're amazing. Thank you so much.

• 1:06:24Speaker 00

  Do you want to try that last tune?

• 1:06:26Speaker 05

  Sure. I mean, it's up to you.

• 1:06:27Speaker 00

  We're kind of good either way, but...

• 1:06:29Speaker 05

  Why not? Let's do it. I love it. Did I send you the recording? Is it in D or E? Now, I can't remember.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  It's in D. Please don't do it in E.

• 1:06:35Speaker 05

  I won't. I won't.

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  E is so high.

• 1:06:39Speaker 05

  Oh, I know. But I love this song. Do you like...

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  I love this song.

• 1:06:43Speaker 05

  It's such a great song.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  I've always loved this song.

• 1:06:47Speaker 00

  This is, but I don't know if I can do the Schubert part.

• 1:06:49Speaker 05

  Let's forget about that.

• 1:06:50Speaker 00

  Is that cool if we don't do that? So who did you do this with? This is the Bob Dylan song "Not Dark Yet."

• 1:06:56Speaker 05

  I recorded this, so during COVID, my husband and brother-in-law, who are cello and violin, we just made a ton of music together in our house.

• 1:07:05Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 1:07:06Speaker 05

  And we got this mobile recording rig from our friend Jody Elf up in New Paltz. We drove up to his house in April of 2020. He gave us all these mics. We set up this rig and then he had it wired where he could live mix us

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:07:20Speaker 05

  from his place in New Paltz. And

• 1:07:23Speaker 00

  That's so great.

• 1:07:24Speaker 05

  We did live streams with live audio

• 1:07:26Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:07:26Speaker 05

  from his, it was very weird. But this recording is from our living room.

• 1:07:32Speaker 00

  I love it. It's a beautiful recording. And you throw in Schubert in the end.

• 1:07:35Speaker 05

  Yes, and it was Eric's idea to do a little Schubert. On D music.

• 1:07:39Speaker 00

  Cello player.

• 1:07:39Speaker 05

  And yes, very, very classical of him. But we'll just do a normal Bob Dylan.

• 1:07:45Speaker 00

  So you tuned down? What kind of guitar do you have for the nerds out there?

• 1:07:48Speaker 05

  I have, this is a Callings, a Single O Callings that I got in 2015. I borrowed it from Callings. Actually, I was doing a tour with Glenn Hansard and they mailed it to me to borrow it and then I bought it.

• 1:08:00Speaker 00

  It's beautiful. It's small.

• 1:08:01Speaker 05

  It's a small body guitar. I really, I'm so used to like my little guitar.

• 1:08:06Speaker 00

  It's a little buddy.

• 1:08:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, I can't play big guitars. And I have a Martin also. That's the same size, but I don't travel with that as much.

• 1:08:12Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 1:08:14Speaker 05

  I might, let me, can I grab a lyric sheet for this one? Just in case, just on the floor. I know it, but there's, I might just.

• 1:08:20Speaker 00

  I don't know how your vision is. It's pretty small.

• 1:08:23Speaker 05

  I think that's fine because I pretty much know it. I might just need like a.

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  Okay. Thanks, bud.

• 1:08:27Speaker 05

  First line kind of thing. Do you want to sing a verse?

• 1:08:31Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:08:32Speaker 05

  Which one?

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  I'll do the second one.

• 1:08:33Speaker 05

  Sounds great.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  Shadows are falling And I've been here all day

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  It's too hot to sleep And time is slipping away

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  Feel like my soul is turned into steel

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  I still got the scars that the sun didn't heal

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  There's not even room enough to be anywhere

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  It's not dark yet But it's getting there

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  Where my sense of humanity Has gone down the drain

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  Behind every beautiful thing There's some kind of pain

• 1:10:07Speaker 03

  She wrote me a letter And she wrote it so kind

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  She put down in writing What was on her mind

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  I just don't see Why I should even care

• 1:10:35Speaker 03

  It's not dark yet But it's getting there

• 1:10:48Speaker 03

  Well, I've been to London and I've been to Gay Perry.

• 1:10:57Speaker 03

  I followed the river till I got to the sea.

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  I've been down on the bottom of the world for the last.

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  I ain't looking for nothing in anyone's eyes.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  Oh, sometimes my burden is more than I can bear.

• 1:11:34Speaker 03

  It's not dark yet, it's getting there.

• 1:12:23Speaker 03

  I was born here and I'll die here against my will.

• 1:12:33Speaker 03

  I know it looks like I'm moving, but I'm standing still.

• 1:12:42Speaker 03

  Every move in my body is so aching, so numb.

• 1:12:50Speaker 03

  I can't even remember what it was I came to get away from.

• 1:13:01Speaker 03

  I don't even hear the murmur of a prayer.

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  It's not dark yet, but it's getting there.

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  It's not dark yet, but it's getting there.

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  It's not dark yet, but it's getting there.

• 1:13:45Speaker 00

  We did it, we did it.

• 1:13:46Speaker 05

  Always worth doing Little Bob Dylan at the end. Like, why not? There's no reason not to.

• 1:13:51Speaker 00

  I love it. That was so fun.

• 1:13:53Speaker 05

  So fun.

• 1:13:53Speaker 00

  I forgot how much I love this song and how much I love how he sings, "But it's getting there."

• 1:13:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's getting there.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  "It's not dark yet, but it's getting there."

• 1:14:02Speaker 05

  This came out of mind.

• 1:14:03Speaker 00

  So good.

• 1:14:03Speaker 05

  It's just such a good record.

• 1:14:05Speaker 00

  It is.

• 1:14:05Speaker 05

  And this song is, like, it fucking kills me, the lyrics of this song.

• 1:14:09Speaker 00

  It's a deep song.

• 1:14:10Speaker 05

  Like, I can't even remember what it was I came here to get away from. Like, that line, I'm just like, God.

• 1:14:15Speaker 00

  I know, it's so, like, existential.

• 1:14:17Speaker 05

  It really is. Like, "I was born here and I'll die here," the whole thing is just like...

• 1:14:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Speaker 05

  Ugh, God.

• 1:14:22Speaker 00

  Tears.

• 1:14:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's so good.

• 1:14:23Speaker 00

  Good call. Thanks for suggesting.

• 1:14:26Speaker 05

  It's so fun, so fun to play with you.

• 1:14:28Speaker 00

  Thanks so much!

• 1:14:29Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:14:30Speaker 00

  Yay, friends forever.

• 1:14:41Speaker 05

  Oh, that was great.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  It was great. So the takeaways are, what would Bruce Hornsby do?

• 1:14:45Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:46Speaker 04

  And, "Read All Fours" by Miranda July.

• 1:14:49Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. I've already, like, told all my friends to read it. It's so popular that there's a backlash, which is stupid.

• 1:14:55Speaker 04

  Um, I think she really sold me on Orlando.

• 1:14:58Speaker 05

  Yeah!

• 1:14:59Speaker 04

  And Fiddle Camp.

• 1:15:00Speaker 05

  Fiddle Camp, yes. Definitely Fiddle Camp. She's cool. Let's hang out with her again.

• 1:15:05Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:15:05Speaker 05

  Tonight? Should we call her?

• 1:15:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'll call her.

• 1:15:08Speaker 05

  All right.

• 1:15:08Speaker 04

  Wait, but do the credits first.

• 1:15:09Speaker 05

  Oh, okay.

• 1:15:12Speaker 00

  The songs we played in this episode were Galahad, from her album Age of Apathy, which came out in 2022. The second song was Crisis, from All My Friends, which came out in 2024. The third song was Daughters, also from All My Friends. The fourth song we played was Phoenix, from Age of Apathy 2022. And the last song we played was the classic Bob Dylan song from Time Out of Mind, which came out in 1997, called Not Dark Yet. Special thanks to Ifa O'Donovan for joining us today. We'll be back next week with Nathaniel Radliff. Norah Jones is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Norah Jones.

• 1:15:56Speaker 00

  Today's show was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda. Audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Additional recording by Jamie Landry, artwork by Eliza Fry, photography by Shirvan Lenez, and produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda. Executive producers, Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead, Queen Anaki. Thanks for listening.