Pod Insights Norah Jones Is Playing Along Lucinda Williams About this episode Lucinda Williams, the multi-GRAMMY-winning singer songwriter, joins Norah for a laid-back conversation about writing her book, the experiences behind some of her iconic songs, and how a voice evolves with time.
Transcript 10,038 words · 12 speakers
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1:05 Speaker 02 Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with Lucinda Williams.
1:10 Speaker 03 Yes. I'm just playing along with you.
1:18 Speaker 03 I'm just playing along with you.
1:25 Speaker 02 Hi, I'm Norah Jones, and with me is Sarah Oda. Thanks for having me. You're always with me.
1:33 Speaker 02 Our guest today, oh, boy, oh, boy. We have the incredible, legendary singer-songwriter and guitar player, Lucinda Williams. Her first album came out in 1979 called Ramblin' on My Mind and consisted of country and blues covers. But she followed that up shortly after with her own music on an album called Happy Woman Blues. And now, 15 albums later, she's still singing her heart out and writing these beautiful stories put to music, is how I like to think of it. Lucinda is one of my idols. She's many of our idols. Yes, I am personally a big, big fan. And I feel like her songs have sort of woven their way through different chapters of my life. Yeah.
2:16 Speaker 02 And when I hear a song, it just takes me right back to a moment in time. And like, just, her music has the power to do that. She's incredible. She's on tour off and on, so we got to catch her when she was in New York.
2:29 Speaker 03 Playing at the Beacon Theater and she's super generous with us with her time and her stories and I really loved hanging with her. This is the first time I've really got to sit down and hang with her and play music, even though I've met her many, many times over the years. So this was a very special time to spend with her. The first time I met her was at a Grant Parsons tribute in 2002 or three, maybe, maybe four. I'm not sure. But we have a great picture, the three of us with Keith Richards and he has no shirt on. It's pretty great. But that was the first time I met her and I just, ever since, I've been just a huge mega fan. I've been to many of her shows and just stood in the back crying.
3:13 Speaker 02 I know.
3:14 Speaker 03 You know?
3:15 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:16 Speaker 03 Because her, her music really evokes a lot of emotion.
3:18 Speaker 02 Yes, for sure. She's a very moving performer. We also want to mention that her new album, World's Gone Wrong, comes out on January 23rd, 2026, and you can check out her new single by the same title, which is out now.
3:32 Speaker 03 Joining us also in this episode on guitar is Travis Stevens, so you'll hear another voice chime in here and there. I hope you enjoy this episode. It was my dream to play and hang out with Lucinda Williams.
3:56 Speaker 04 I'm so excited. I'm excited because, because you, you play piano and that's just such a great instrument.
4:05 Speaker 03 Well, I, I read your book, so I know your connection with your mother and the piano. I love that.
4:11 Speaker 04 Yeah.
4:12 Speaker 03 Yeah. It was interesting to hear you talk about that because you said she had a complicated relationship with the piano, so you always had pianos coming and going.
4:20 Speaker 04 Yes. I'm not sure what that was about, but just, I don't know, I guess she felt this pressure from somewhere in her mind from, from when she was younger, I guess, maybe, and that she didn't make something more of herself with it or something. You know, she never really talked about it openly.
4:40 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
4:41 Speaker 04 She would just kind of get in a certain mood about it and, you know. Yeah, I think I said in the book, it became kind of an albatross for her.
4:51 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:52 Speaker 04 That's so nice that you read the book.
4:54 Speaker 03 I loved it.
4:56 Speaker 04 Thank you.
4:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:57 Speaker 04 Thanks.
4:58 Speaker 03 It was really, it was really special, you know. I didn't know that you had written a book. And Alinda Segarra from Hooray for the Riff Raff told me about it. And I was so excited. The book is amazing. Was it hard to like go that deep and write about your life like that?
5:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, kind of. It's, it takes a lot of time. That's, that's the thing. I didn't realize it was going to take, be so time consuming, you know. Now that I've done it, I guess, guess I could do it again, maybe. You know, they all, they all talk about maybe a second book and.
5:35 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
5:35 Speaker 04 I don't know.
5:36 Speaker 03 That's exciting.
5:37 Speaker 04 You know.
5:39 Speaker 03 It's interesting to think about telling your stories like that.
5:44 Speaker 04 Yeah.
5:44 Speaker 03 Like, I've never really thought that way, but when I was, I listened to it on audiobook because I like to hear you talk. So I, I was thinking about that. I was like, wow.
5:54 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's such a different thing from make, writing songs and recording an album, you know. It's just kind of a different part of your brain, I guess.
6:04 Speaker 03 Yeah. It's cool, though, because I like the way you talk about your songs in it.
6:09 Speaker 04 Yeah.
6:10 Speaker 03 Have you explained where the songs come from as much before you wrote the book? Like, did you ever explain where the songs come from in interviews when people ask? Or were you always like the shy away from that kind of person?
6:23 Speaker 04 No, I try to talk about it as much as I can.
6:26 Speaker 03 Okay.
6:28 Speaker 04 Except for the super personal stuff, like who I was in bed with or something, you know, like.
6:34 Speaker 03 Now, that's in the book.
6:35 Speaker 04 That's in the book, yeah.
6:38 Speaker 04 But like now the shows I'm doing, that's kind of what we're doing is I'm telling, sort of taking stories from the book and talking a little bit about that, you know, and then playing a song. I tell a story about like somebody I knew in my life or something, and then I'll sing a song that's connected with it.
6:57 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
6:58 Speaker 04 That's what the shows are right now.
7:00 Speaker 03 Great.
7:01 Speaker 04 So.
7:02 Speaker 03 That's great.
7:03 Speaker 04 And people seem to really like it. They love hearing the stories behind the songs.
7:08 Speaker 03 They really do, I think.
7:09 Speaker 04 You know.
7:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, they love that.
7:12 Speaker 03 I've always been shy about that, but when I was listening to you explain them on the book, it was so nice. And I felt even more close to the song, even a song that I like. Some of these songs I've been close to for many years already, because I love your music.
7:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
7:30 Speaker 03 Like you talked about something what happened, something about what happens.
7:34 Speaker 04 Yeah.
7:35 Speaker 03 When we talked. I love that song so much. And I had a summer in LA once where I listened to that song every single night on repeat.
7:45 Speaker 04 Wow.
7:46 Speaker 03 Uh, for like a couple of months. So, hearing you talk about it was special.
7:51 Speaker 04 I can't believe I'm sitting here with you doing this.
7:55 Speaker 03 It's fun.
7:56 Speaker 04 You're so revered and everybody loves you, you know.
8:00 Speaker 03 Ditto. I mean, you're like my idol. Are you kidding? I'm, I'm so thrilled that you were open to it.
8:07 Speaker 04 Of course.
8:08 Speaker 03 Yeah. Let me see. It'd be cool if we could try, um, let's try something about what happens.
8:15 Speaker 04 Okay.
8:16 Speaker 03 You want to try that?
8:17 Speaker 04 Okay.
8:21 Speaker 04 Wow, you just did a, you just hit a really good note.
8:25 Speaker 03 If you want to change the key, let me know, but.
8:28 Speaker 04 Okay, yeah.
8:29 Speaker 03 No big deal.
8:29 Speaker 04 I know. I was telling Travis, I said, do we have the keys? And he said,
8:36 Speaker 04 Yeah, we can do them in your key. And I said, yeah, but that's just it. I don't remember what the keys are.
8:41 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, no, I wrote them down.
8:42 Speaker 04 He listened to some recordings and he got the keys off.
8:45 Speaker 03 Cool. Yeah, I wrote them down, too.
8:47 Speaker 04 I think I was doing it either G or...
8:51 Speaker 03 Okay. Yeah, because it's in A on the record, but that's...
8:54 Speaker 04 Okay, that's... See, that's why I couldn't remember. It was either G or A.
8:58 Speaker 03 Yeah. Have you changed your keys over the years? I had to change a couple of keys to go lower recently.
9:04 Speaker 04 Yeah, I've been having to do that a little bit.
9:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
9:07 Speaker 04 I hate it when that happens, but...
9:09 Speaker 03 I don't know.
9:10 Speaker 04 It's just part of aging, I think, a little.
9:13 Speaker 03 I think it's cool. I like what happens to my voice as I get older.
9:18 Speaker 04 Joni Mitchell, you know, that when she... A lot of people commented on that, that her... You know, she couldn't hit the real high notes like she used to or something.
9:27 Speaker 03 Yeah, but her voice is... She's turned into like something completely different.
9:31 Speaker 04 It sounds better now, I think, almost.
9:34 Speaker 03 It's almost like two different singers.
9:36 Speaker 04 Yeah.
9:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
9:36 Speaker 04 And Emmylou Harris, she went through a similar thing, I think, like that. That album she did with Daniel Lanois.
9:43 Speaker 03 I love that album.
9:44 Speaker 04 Me, too, because it brought... I like that album the best of all her albums, I think, because she got this smoky thing in her voice that maybe Daniel brought it out in her or something. I don't know, but I thought it was beautiful that...
10:00 Speaker 03 I do, too.
10:00 Speaker 04 The way she sang on that album.
10:02 Speaker 03 I know, she's so low now.
10:04 Speaker 04 Yeah.
10:05 Speaker 03 So cool. I think when I was younger, I used to get excited to get older so that I would have a lower voice.
10:13 Speaker 04 Really?
10:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, I used to say that. I can't wait until I'm older and I have a lower voice.
10:20 Speaker 04 Yeah, but mine went too much that direction when, like, I wasn't taking care of my voice enough. Like, I was singing outside a lot without... And... Or singing inside without proper monitors and stuff. So I was pushing. And pushing all the time. And I ended up with nodes on my vocal cords.
10:40 Speaker 03 Really?
10:40 Speaker 04 Yeah.
10:41 Speaker 03 Oh, wow. Did you have to have surgery?
10:43 Speaker 04 And I had to quit singing for like six months and just vocal. The only thing to do is just vocal rest.
10:49 Speaker 03 Oh, God, that's hard.
10:50 Speaker 04 And I had to do that. And eventually, they went down. So I didn't have to have them removed or anything. Thank God.
10:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, that would be so scary. Hey, did you? You couldn't talk either? Or you just couldn't sing?
11:02 Speaker 04 At first, they said no talking and no singing. And for like six months. And then eventually, it came back. But I remember once I had a gig and I had, I was so hoarse. And I had to go and get a shot of Cortisone just to get the swelling to go down so I could sing.
11:24 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
11:25 Speaker 04 Yeah. So now I'm like, that's why now I do my vocal exercises. I do all this sleep with the humidifier and.
11:33 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
11:34 Speaker 04 You know?
11:35 Speaker 03 That's good. I warm up now before I sing. I didn't when I was really young, but it's just, it feels better.
11:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
11:43 Speaker 03 Like I have more control.
11:48 Speaker 04 God, it sounds so beautiful. I love this room.
11:51 Speaker 03 It's nice. This is a nice piano.
11:52 Speaker 04 It just feels so good that it's really nice. At the risk of sounding woo-woo, like all hippie woo-woo. I say that to my audience now sometimes. When I'm talking to them about something, I go, "At the risk of sounding woo-woo." And they all laugh.
12:08 Speaker 03 That's funny.
12:09 Speaker 04 Because they know what I mean.
12:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, it feels good in here. This place is.
12:13 Speaker 04 God, how long have you? Oh, no, this isn't your, I keep thinking. Because it feels like your place, though.
12:20 Speaker 03 I made, I think, my first and second record. I did some stuff here, though. So I've been here a lot. But this place has been here a really long time. I don't know how long, but they do a lot of jazz records here. So.
12:32 Speaker 04 Really?
12:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:08 Speaker 05 If I had my way, I'd be in your town. I might not stay, but at least I would've been around. 'Cause there's something about what happens when we talk.
13:35 Speaker 05 Something about what happens when we talk. Does this make sense? Does it matter anyway? Is it coincidence? Or was it meant to be? 'Cause there's something about what happens when we talk.
14:09 Speaker 05 Something about what happens when we talk.
14:17 Speaker 05 Conversation with you was like a drug. It wasn't your face so much as it was your words.
14:34 Speaker 05 And there's something about what happens when we talk.
14:43 Speaker 05 Something about what happens when we talk.
15:24 Speaker 05 Well, I can't stay around 'cause I'm going back south. But all I regret now is I never kissed your mouth. 'Cause there's something about what happens when we talk. Something about what happens when we talk. Something about what happens when we talk.
16:09 Speaker 05 Something about what happens when we talk.
16:29 Speaker 04 Wow, I love the way you play, just beautiful.
16:33 Speaker 03 Thank you, I love the way you sing.
16:35 Speaker 04 Almost kind of like a guitar in a way.
16:38 Speaker 03 Oh, thanks.
16:40 Speaker 04 You know, hit certain strings, like you, or the keys you hit, I could hear those notes on the guitar kind of too.
16:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, I feel like I've listened to that recording from the album so many times that I was definitely kind of trying to play the guitar part, you know.
16:58 Speaker 04 Do you write on piano mostly, or?
17:02 Speaker 03 I do a lot now, but when I started writing, I wrote on guitar because I was too, um...
17:11 Speaker 03 It's like the piano, I played jazz piano for a long time. And I had a block with writing. So I had to play, I learned like five chords on the guitar and then I wrote easily. You know, the sort of switching to an instrument you don't know as well, that helped me write.
17:27 Speaker 04 Yeah, wow, that's interesting. Because I feel like now if I knew piano besides guitar, I could stretch out more as far as my songwriting goes.
17:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:40 Speaker 04 Like it would take me to different places.
17:42 Speaker 03 That's what I find.
17:44 Speaker 04 Yeah.
17:44 Speaker 03 Different instruments will take you to a different place.
17:47 Speaker 04 Right.
17:47 Speaker 03 Because you're not going to the same chords, you're always going to.
17:50 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, definitely.
17:52 Speaker 03 Have you ever sat down at the piano, like, you know, did you ever?
17:56 Speaker 04 I did want to when I was a kid. My parents took me to this teacher and I was going to start, but then I didn't like the teacher. I just didn't like the vibe.
18:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:11 Speaker 04 I didn't feel comfortable, so.
18:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, it has to be right.
18:14 Speaker 04 Yeah.
18:15 Speaker 03 Yeah.
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20:40 Speaker 04 I can't get over that. You were saying you did some jazz for a while?
20:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, I kind of started out more doing jazz.
20:50 Speaker 04 Wow. See, that, I can tell, you know? That's a great, that's a great background to have.
20:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, did you grow up listening to a lot of jazz?
20:59 Speaker 04 Yeah, because my dad loved Coltrane and Chet Baker.
21:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's the good stuff.
21:07 Speaker 04 Yeah.
21:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:09 Speaker 04 And it really helps when I'm playing with other musicians if they've had, if they understand a little bit of that jazz thing, you know?
21:18 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:19 Speaker 04 It really makes a difference.
21:22 Speaker 03 I love it.
21:24 Speaker 04 Wow.
21:25 Speaker 03 This is already so fun. Thanks for playing.
21:29 Speaker 09 Oh, thank you.
21:29 Speaker 03 No, I'm glad.
21:30 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's great.
21:32 Speaker 03 It's nice.
21:33 Speaker 09 Thank you. Just tell me when you need me to.
21:34 Speaker 04 It just kind of helps me a little because then, because I'm so used to hearing.
21:38 Speaker 03 Totally.
21:39 Speaker 09 I know her picking, she has a, she's, I was trying to explain this on the bus the other night. I know her picking pattern. She uses her thumb and her first two fingers in a weird way that like, and I just, there was like, how do you know how to do it? Because I've tried to play Lucinda Williams songs for so long.
21:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:55 Speaker 09 But she kind of lays a, she, there's a thumb, there's a thumb thing and then the finger thing. And she lays the vocal right in here.
22:04 Speaker 04 Yeah.
22:04 Speaker 09 And she's always listening, like, if you're just like.
22:08 Speaker 09 She's like.
22:10 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's too much.
22:11 Speaker 09 You have a particular kind of.
22:13 Speaker 04 Right.
22:13 Speaker 09 Area of it.
22:14 Speaker 04 I have a, you know what, I learned this new word in origin. It's called cadence.
22:19 Speaker 03 Yeah, you do have a cadence.
22:21 Speaker 04 And it's a certain thing and it's hard to explain to other people sometimes, you know.
22:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, it's that magic part of music that you can't explain. You have to feel it.
22:34 Speaker 04 Yeah.
22:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:36 Speaker 04 But see, you go right there because I noticed like when you first started playing, you gave it this kind of, kind of this almost bluesy kind of, or jazz kind of vibe, you know, like.
22:52 Speaker 03 I love it.
22:53 Speaker 04 The soul thing. It is, it's hard to just, to try to verbalize music.
23:00 Speaker 03 It, well, that's.
23:01 Speaker 04 It's almost impossible.
23:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's why I enjoyed listening to the book because you verbalize it in a way that, but only because I knew the music so well. It kind of enhanced it, you know.
23:12 Speaker 04 Yeah.
23:13 Speaker 03 But, um, yeah, I always think whenever people are asking me questions about the music, I don't ever know how to answer it and I'm like, well, just listen to it, I guess, you know. Makes more sense. I also really love the song "Bus to Baton Rouge," which you talk about in your book, too.
23:32 Speaker 04 Yeah, I've really been enjoying doing that song lately. We've been playing it live a lot.
23:38 Speaker 03 Yeah. Well, I think people just love it too, probably.
23:42 Speaker 04 Yeah, I think they do too, because when I announce it, when I say the name of the song, you know, people clap.
23:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's got that emotion. It's interesting because again, I know this song so well for so long from, from listening to that album.
23:59 Speaker 04 Mm-hmm.
24:02 Speaker 03 But I had my own relation to it. So it was nice to hear you talk about, you know, the places in your childhood where this came from. And I don't know, I almost started crying when I was listening to it because, I don't know, it reminded me of my mom and my mom's from Oklahoma.
24:20 Speaker 04 Really?
24:21 Speaker 03 And her whole family is, you know, from down there and I don't know, kind of just, she has a lot of stories of her childhood that kind of, it felt nostalgic to me in a way.
24:34 Speaker 04 You identified with a lot of it because of where your mother's from.
24:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, not me, but more through her, yeah.
24:41 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't know that about your background.
24:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, I grew up in Texas mostly.
24:49 Speaker 04 Okay.
24:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, but she's from Oklahoma.
24:53 Speaker 04 Yeah.
24:54 Speaker 03 And this is bad.
24:55 Speaker 04 Well, we're all from kind of not too far away from each other.
24:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
24:59 Speaker 04 Travis is from West Virginia.
25:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
25:02 Speaker 09 Yeah, hillbilly.
25:06 Speaker 04 You're from West Virginia, I'm proud of it.
25:09 Speaker 09 I am proud of it. I love that, it's a beautiful place to be from.
25:14 Speaker 03 Do you live there still?
25:15 Speaker 09 No, I live in Nashville.
25:17 Speaker 03 Where are you living now?
25:19 Speaker 04 In Nashville.
25:20 Speaker 03 Oh, nice.
25:21 Speaker 04 Yeah, there's a little scene there that's cool, you know. A lot, so many people I knew were moving there.
25:29 Speaker 03 I know.
25:30 Speaker 04 And, you know, and my husband, Tom, and I were always going back and forth so much there and staying there, staying in a hotel whenever we were there. We decided, you know, this isn't really cost effective. We should probably get a house here.
25:46 Speaker 03 That's great.
25:47 Speaker 04 And the real estate was in a good place. So we went ahead and decided to bite the bullet and got a little house in East Nashville.
25:57 Speaker 03 That's nice.
25:58 Speaker 04 It's really easy to live there. Things are so much closer together because we moved there from LA. And, you know, we were just ready for change.
26:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:08 Speaker 04 I was just ready for a little bit smaller city and...
26:12 Speaker 03 It's a small, big town, right? That's kind of what they say.
26:14 Speaker 04 Exactly, yeah. It's kind of like a college town.
26:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's always nice, I think.
26:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, and that's what I'm used to because that's, those are the kinds of towns I grew up in.
26:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:25 Speaker 04 You know.
26:27 Speaker 05 The college towns are so great because they're small enough to be comfortable, but then there's still enough culture there for it to be interesting.
26:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:36 Speaker 05 And that's kind of how Nashville is.
26:39 Speaker 03 Always good coffee in a college town.
26:42 Speaker 05 Yeah. Yes, always good coffee.
26:45 Speaker 03 You want to try "Bus to Baton Rouge"?
26:47 Speaker 05 Yeah.
26:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:49 Speaker 05 I'll just sing it and you can... Okay.
26:53 Speaker 05 I had to go back to that house one more time to see if the camellias were in bloom.
27:07 Speaker 05 For so many reasons, it's been on my mind. The house on Belmont Avenue.
27:22 Speaker 05 Built up on cinder blocks off of the ground. What with the rain and the soft swampy land. By the sweet honeysuckle that grew all around. Were switches when we were back. I took a bus to Baton Rouge. I took a bus to Baton Rouge.
28:21 Speaker 05 All the front rooms were kept closed off. I never liked to go in there much.
28:37 Speaker 05 Sometimes the doors, they'd be locked 'cause there were precious things that I couldn't touch.
28:52 Speaker 05 The company couch, covered in plastic. Little books about being safe.
29:08 Speaker 05 The dining room table that nobody ate at. And the piano that nobody played. I took a bus to Baton Rouge. I took a bus to Baton Rouge.
29:46 Speaker 05 There was a beautiful lamp I always loved. A seashore was painted on the shade. And it would turn around when you switched on the bulb and gently rocked the waves. The driveway was covered with tiny white seashells. A fig tree stood in the backyard.
30:34 Speaker 05 Other things I remember as well, but to tell them would just be too hard.
30:49 Speaker 05 Ghosts in the wind that blow through my life follow me wherever I go.
31:03 Speaker 05 I'll never be free from these chains inside, hidden deep down in my soul. I took a bus to Baton Rouge. I took a bus to Baton Rouge. I took a bus to Baton Rouge.
32:05 Speaker 04 You're brilliant, Nora.
32:09 Speaker 03 Sorry, I didn't go to the G there.
32:11 Speaker 04 Wow.
32:11 Speaker 09 Where?
32:12 Speaker 03 Oh, there, at the end. I just did the C to...
32:16 Speaker 09 I'm just trying to follow you. I mean, you're good.
32:17 Speaker 03 Cool. On the interlude, I just kind of did the C to F.
32:21 Speaker 09 OK, cool.
32:21 Speaker 03 Instead of going and doing the whole cycle.
32:23 Speaker 09 Got you.
32:23 Speaker 03 And I didn't know if there was a solo. I can't remember.
32:27 Speaker 09 I don't remember.
32:28 Speaker 03 When we started doing the harmony then, it was so pretty.
32:31 Speaker 09 So it's just a D, is it D minor seven there? Is that what's happening?
32:34 Speaker 03 I think so.
32:34 Speaker 09 For the Baton Rouge.
32:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
32:38 Speaker 04 I'm sitting here with Norah Jones.
32:41 Speaker 03 I'm sitting here with Lou Sando Williams.
32:45 Speaker 04 We're singing together, it's amazing. In New York City at this wonderful studio.
32:55 Speaker 09 You know what that sounds like? It sounds like when Elf, when he's singing the jingle to.
32:59 Speaker 03 And I'm singing, and you're my dad, but you didn't know about me. But I'm here and I'm singing.
33:06 Speaker 09 I love you and I'm singing.
33:07 Speaker 03 And I love you, I love you, I love you. I was actually just telling Jamie, as I've gotten older, I don't cry a lot. I don't know if it's because I've become hardened or what, but there's only a couple of things that kind of helped me get it out. And one of them is Elf, the movie. And one of them is listening to your music, which is a funny two things to put together. But I get.
33:35 Speaker 04 You laugh when you see Elf.
33:37 Speaker 03 No, I cry.
33:38 Speaker 04 Oh.
33:39 Speaker 03 There's this one part in Elf that I cry every year. It's like the whole year builds up and then.
33:44 Speaker 04 Really?
33:45 Speaker 03 There's this scene where the sleigh finally flies and they finally all realize then that the magic of Christmas is real. And I just like, I can't, I don't know. It's such a weird place to cry because it's not sad, but.
33:59 Speaker 09 It's poignant, the whole.
34:00 Speaker 03 It's so good. It's just so well done. But I do the same thing with your music. I, I don't know, I think I've cried, I've come to see you a few times too, and just like wept in the audience. And it's, it's interesting, like, I think your music has, obviously, has a really visceral, like emotional quality to it. Maybe it's your voice, the songs, of course.
34:23 Speaker 04 Thank you.
34:23 Speaker 03 The way you record, you know, it's not overly, you know, it's not that annoying thing about music, it's the real heart and raw.
34:31 Speaker 04 Yeah.
34:32 Speaker 03 Soul of it.
34:33 Speaker 04 I love that word visceral.
34:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, I know. I, I used it and I thought, wait, am I using this right?
34:38 Speaker 04 No, that's, that's a good one. That's a good.
34:41 Speaker 03 Yeah. It's, it's, it's done well for me. Thank you for all the good cries.
34:47 Speaker 04 You want to try, uh, we've come too far to turn around?
34:50 Speaker 03 Yeah, I love this song. Do you know, I, last time I saw you actually was at that Love Rocks thing at the Beacon, maybe in 2019 or 18.
35:04 Speaker 03 And you came out and you did this song solo. And that's the first time I heard it.
35:09 Speaker 04 Wow.
35:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, that was the one with, where there were a lot of different artists and it was a tribute. Anyway.
35:15 Speaker 03 It was beautiful. You came out and did this solo. And I, I was so into the song. Really loved it.
35:26 Speaker 04 That's cool. Thank you.
35:28 Speaker 03 You did a version of it with Charles Lloyd.
35:30 Speaker 04 Right.
35:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:32 Speaker 04 Which I listened to last night and I hadn't heard it in so long. And I was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded with him.
35:40 Speaker 03 It's so good. Yeah.
35:42 Speaker 04 I just loved him so much.
35:43 Speaker 03 He's great. You did that in the studio with him?
35:46 Speaker 04 Yeah. And we did, we ended up going out on the road together and doing a bunch of shows.
35:52 Speaker 03 That's such a cool combination.
35:54 Speaker 04 I know.
35:55 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:55 Speaker 04 He just blows me away, his playing.
35:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:59 Speaker 04 He's got that Coltrane thing.
36:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
36:02 Speaker 04 You know?
36:03 Speaker 03 No, it was great. I'm, I'm so glad you recorded it that way, too. It was cool.
36:08 Speaker 04 Yeah, me too. I'm glad we have that down.
36:11 Speaker 03 Yeah. Yeah, let's try it.
36:22 Speaker 03 Now I'm nervous. Let me start over.
36:25 Speaker 09 We are too. We're just looking at each other like, oh my God, she's doing the thing that she does.
36:32 Speaker 03 Take us out.
36:33 Speaker 09 All right.
36:34 Speaker 04 I'm gonna have to move to New York now. I knew, I knew it. I'm in love.
36:41 Speaker 03 It's great.
36:43 Speaker 04 You're here, your piano and the studio. Like, I want to transplant myself.
36:49 Speaker 03 If you come to New York, we'll do some stuff. We can hang out, we can have dinner, we can play music.
36:56 Speaker 04 I know.
37:03 Speaker 03 Can you see that?
37:04 Speaker 04 We need to do some shows together.
37:07 Speaker 03 That would be fun.
37:08 Speaker 04 You on piano, I would love to do that.
37:10 Speaker 03 That would be amazing. I would love that too.
37:13 Speaker 04 Me too. Because then, because a handful of my songs, several of my songs could really benefit from this type of arrangement.
37:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
37:24 Speaker 04 You know, but it's hard to do that unless you're on, someone's on piano like this.
37:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
37:30 Speaker 04 Or, or like Charles, Charles when he was doing the sax thing, you know, like.
37:35 Speaker 03 And then it's hard to carry piano around or find a different one in each place. It's kind of tricky.
37:42 Speaker 04 I mean, obviously, you're not going to bring this on the road, so.
37:45 Speaker 03 Actually, we do bring a grand on the road.
37:47 Speaker 04 You do?
37:48 Speaker 03 I know. It's kind of crazy.
37:50 Speaker 04 How?
37:51 Speaker 03 Um, well, I put it in my pocket. No, I, um, I have a great crew who pack, there's like a case that it goes in and then it goes in the truck.
38:00 Speaker 04 Wow, there's an actual case?
38:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:02 Speaker 04 A grand piano?
38:03 Speaker 03 Do they take the legs off? Yeah, they take the legs off.
38:07 Speaker 04 That's amazing.
38:08 Speaker 03 Yeah. It's kind of wild, but it's tricky because, you know, if you're playing outside in the summer and the tuning.
38:15 Speaker 04 It can change the tuning probably even in everything.
38:19 Speaker 03 It can be tricky.
38:20 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, but, you know, I haven't been able to switch to digital because it's just.
38:27 Speaker 04 Yeah, I can understand that would be a hard transition.
38:31 Speaker 03 Maybe if I was playing in like stadiums, but I'm not. I'm playing in theaters and it still feels like a real piano.
38:37 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:38 Speaker 03 So.
38:40 Speaker 04 I had to, I had to learn it again too because even though I've done it so many times, but I don't know why that is. I just, like I have to have all the words to my own songs, you know, when I perform them.
38:53 Speaker 03 I mean, I was going to ask about that actually.
38:56 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:57 Speaker 03 Because you have so many songs and they have so many lyrics.
39:01 Speaker 04 I know, and I just got to where I had to, we had to use a teleprompter because I used to bring a notebook, literally with all the song lyrics, this big notebook on stage and put it on a music stand and turn the pages and everything and that got to be kind of cumbersome.
39:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:20 Speaker 04 So we decided to go with the teleprompter thing.
39:24 Speaker 03 How, do you know the number of songs that are inputted into it?
39:29 Speaker 03 I don't know, do you know Trump?
39:31 Speaker 09 No, I mean upwards of a hundred, probably.
39:35 Speaker 03 Okay, but that's not your whole.
39:37 Speaker 09 No.
39:38 Speaker 03 No, that's just the ones you're doing live.
39:40 Speaker 04 So it's just the songs that I'm doing, you know, on that particular stretch of tours and shows.
39:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:47 Speaker 09 There's a big database where, in a Google Drive.
39:51 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:51 Speaker 09 And if a song pops up in the set that hasn't been done since the teleprompter days.
39:58 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
39:59 Speaker 09 It gets, it's pulled from the Google Drive and put into the teleprompter that day. And then it lives there forever.
40:04 Speaker 03 Gotta love technology.
40:06 Speaker 04 So they know all this, you know, digital stuff that I still don't understand, really.
40:12 Speaker 03 No.
40:13 Speaker 09 They're analog.
40:14 Speaker 03 You're analog all the way.
40:16 Speaker 04 I'm being pulled gently along.
40:18 Speaker 03 That's good.
40:19 Speaker 04 Into the digital world.
40:21 Speaker 03 Just follow the music.
40:22 Speaker 04 Into the cyber universe.
40:23 Speaker 03 Follow the music. It's all good.
40:26 Speaker 04 Well, it makes things convenient.
40:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:29 Speaker 04 You know, and easier to manage. When you have to tour and do all these things with all these songs and instruments and all this.
40:37 Speaker 03 Much easier.
40:38 Speaker 04 Different people and.
40:39 Speaker 03 I have, I have like four or five songs in the set usually that I kind of need a little help with lyrics. And I have them on the piano. But then it's like, you know, then I'm like turning it, but it's not in a book.
40:54 Speaker 04 Yeah, I was doing the pages and the, that was working until I was playing at the Bridge Concert one year.
41:03 Speaker 03 Did they blow off?
41:04 Speaker 04 Yes, a gust of wind came along and blew all the pages onto the stage and.
41:11 Speaker 03 Oh, God.
41:12 Speaker 04 There I was, completely in a panic, trying to grab all the pages and put them back on the music stand. And Emmylou Harris saw the whole thing and she joked with me about, kind of teased me about it later, you know.
41:27 Speaker 04 So.
41:28 Speaker 03 That sounds like an anxiety dream that I've had. You know what I mean?
41:32 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:32 Speaker 03 Where you're on stage and all of a sudden, you don't know how to finish what you're supposed to be doing.
41:37 Speaker 04 I know. That's what it, all it takes is one time of forgetting the words.
41:43 Speaker 03 Oh.
41:43 Speaker 04 You know?
41:44 Speaker 03 I know.
41:45 Speaker 04 Ever since then, I had to have kind of a little cheat sheet, just something to kind of just fall back on.
41:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, to spur you along.
41:53 Speaker 04 And it, to me, it really gave me a sense of, it was really liberating as far as singing goes, because I didn't have to think about, okay, what's that next line?
42:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
42:06 Speaker 04 Or what words coming up next? I could just concentrate on the singing.
42:09 Speaker 03 Yeah, and just be in the moment.
42:11 Speaker 04 Right, exactly.
42:13 Speaker 03 That's great. I'm glad they have that now to help us.
42:18 Speaker 04 But, you know, then I see people like Steve Earle get up and sing these, needless to say, he had all of his songs with all of his, you know, a multitude of complicated lyrics. And he's up there wailing away, you know, with no words printed or anything, just off the cuff.
42:38 Speaker 03 Some people, I've noticed some people really laser in, in that way.
42:45 Speaker 04 Yeah.
42:45 Speaker 03 It's nice when you can. I mean, we have moments of doing that. It's just hard to always do it. You have just so many songs.
42:54 Speaker 04 But it's weird, because when I was, when I first started out playing live and everything, I just, you know, I never forgot the words. I knew them all and just would, you know, get up and sing without any kind of assistance like that.
43:11 Speaker 03 Yeah.
43:11 Speaker 04 I don't know how somebody like Bob Dylan does it.
43:15 Speaker 03 He probably has a prompter now. But I see all those videos from like the 70s, and there's verse after verse after verse. And he's just laser focused on something else, the song, you know?
43:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
43:30 Speaker 03 Yeah. It definitely inspired me when I saw that, to learn my lyrics better.
43:37 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star Trust Pilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
44:09 Speaker 03 If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.
44:54 Speaker 03 Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
45:04 Speaker 07 Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, affordable. So over time, more and more of your operations rely on it. Then one day, the terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today rely on all sorts of third-party
45:45 Speaker 07 systems: cloud platforms, data pipelines, AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Anapaula Assis and Access CIO Giovanni Daniele, two people who think about these questions every day. Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.
46:32 Speaker 04 Like where it says instrumental, is that a solo?
46:35 Speaker 03 Yeah, I'll just do a little, maybe I'll just do the same, like the intro where it's not a full-on, we don't go to the bridge.
46:43 Speaker 04 Right.
46:43 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:44 Speaker 04 Okay. Did I actually write a bridge?
46:48 Speaker 03 Well, when I say bridge, I think I come from the old-school jazz standard terminology, where when they, we used to say bridge and talking about jazz tunes and it was like kind of more of a chorus, but it's just not the same. So I always say it wrong and confuse people.
47:04 Speaker 04 I was just saying that because there's this running joke about how my songs don't have bridges.
47:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:11 Speaker 04 That I've told in my concerts, like one of the, this record company guy had called me in for a meeting because he liked my music and liked my songs. And he said, I think you need to go back to the drawing board, though, as a songwriter, because none of your songs have bridges.
47:27 Speaker 03 That's insane.
47:30 Speaker 04 You know?
47:30 Speaker 03 Which song was he talking about?
47:32 Speaker 04 Well, one of them would have probably been Change the Locks.
47:36 Speaker 03 It's one of my favorites. It doesn't need a bridge.
47:39 Speaker 04 Right, which was recorded by Tom Petty. So I didn't do too bad there.
47:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:44 Speaker 04 But you know, a lot, I just didn't think about that standard way of writing.
47:51 Speaker 03 I have a hard time with bridges. They, if they're inspired, I love them. But sometimes they feel like they're come from a different song. Do you know what I mean?
48:01 Speaker 04 Yeah.
48:02 Speaker 03 I don't know. Have you ever written one?
48:04 Speaker 04 I don't think so. I don't know. I don't, I can't think of any of my songs that...
48:09 Speaker 09 You do. They're just, you probably wouldn't call them bridges. I mean, we were having this conversation in the car.
48:14 Speaker 04 Like this one.
48:15 Speaker 09 That's kind, I would kind of call that a bridge.
48:17 Speaker 04 This, to me, this is...
48:18 Speaker 03 But it's not bridging to a chorus. I think that's what the, the more pop terminology of the...
48:25 Speaker 04 Right, the bridge.
48:26 Speaker 09 You have to do this thing in order to get into the chorus.
48:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's like a little other section between the verse and the chorus.
48:31 Speaker 04 Right. It's a, it's the link between the end of the verse and the chor, into the chorus.
48:39 Speaker 03 It's like this other world, the bridge. But I, I don't know. Yeah, I wouldn't call this a, a technical bridge. I just call bridges from jazz, jazz land.
49:01 Speaker 04 See, I love that.
49:14 Speaker 04 Yeah.
49:17 Speaker 04 I keep hearing Aretha Franklin's voice in my head, you know?
49:21 Speaker 03 I keep hearing yours.
49:24 Speaker 04 Okay. Yeah, I'm ready.
49:28 Speaker 03 All right. Here we go. Ready?
50:09 Speaker 05 We are weary of these trials of tribulations. We are tired, but we have come too far to turn around. From the city of Atlanta to Birmingham, Alabama, we have come too far to turn around. We are here to bear witness to this monstrous sickness.
50:50 Speaker 05 We have come too far to turn around. We have stared into the eyes of evil. We have slowed dance with the devil. We have sat down at his table and shared with him in the feast.
51:32 Speaker 05 We have swallowed the liquid of his lies, tolerated the one we despise.
51:49 Speaker 05 Been led astray by his disguise
51:58 Speaker 05 And fooled by his beliefs.
52:40 Speaker 05 We've been victims of his wrath And we've wavered from the path And we have come too far to turn around.
52:58 Speaker 05 We will lay down the burden of hate and separation 'Cause we have come too far to turn around. For over four hundred years We've been on this trail of tears And we have come too far to turn around.
53:32 Speaker 05 We have stared into the eyes of evil.
53:40 Speaker 05 We have slow-danced with the devil. We have sat down at his table
53:57 Speaker 05 And shared with him in the feast. We have swallowed the liquid of his wrath.
54:14 Speaker 05 Tolerated the one we despise.
54:22 Speaker 05 Been led astray by his disguise. And fooled by his beliefs.
54:39 Speaker 05 We are weary of these trials of tribulations. We are tired, but we have come too far to turn around.
55:13 Speaker 03 That's great.
55:14 Speaker 04 That song is never gonna sound the same without you, Nora.
55:18 Speaker 03 Oh, man. That is a powerful song. It struck me the first time I heard it. I couldn't believe, really, just like, straight to the thing.
55:28 Speaker 04 I was pretty angry about what was going on with...
55:32 Speaker 03 The world?
55:33 Speaker 04 The world, the person who was trying to run the world.
55:36 Speaker 03 Yeah. Yeah. I got that sense.
55:39 Speaker 04 The Mr. D-T.
55:44 Speaker 03 It's funny how you can be so specifically angry about something and write a song like this, and it can still cover so many eras of being angry about something.
55:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
55:56 Speaker 03 Right?
55:57 Speaker 04 But I was also thinking back on the struggles from, you know, the civil rights movement and the... Women's movement and just all of these battles that everybody's been through, really.
56:12 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, it goes deep.
56:14 Speaker 04 Over the hundreds of years, the Native American struggle and the black struggle. There's just been so many struggles along the way.
56:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, when I was reading your book, it sounded like your dad and maybe your mom also, they were really involved.
56:32 Speaker 04 Progressive.
56:33 Speaker 03 Progressive and involved in things.
56:35 Speaker 04 Yeah, well, my dad's dad was also, my grandfather on my dad's side was involved in the Southern Tenet Union's farmer's struggle. When they wanted to unionize because they weren't being paid fairly and everything. You know, that was when there'd be a plot of land, like a farm, and people of color would be working the land. They would essentially rent a plot of land from the landowner and then work, each person would work his plot of land. But, you know, there were some problems that went along with that.
57:18 Speaker 04 So people gathered together and tried to help them unionize. And my grandfather was, got involved in that.
57:27 Speaker 03 Wow.
57:28 Speaker 04 And was, you know, supportive of them and everything. Because sometimes they would have to have meetings in private. And some people would offer their homes, you know, for the activists to come in and have meetings to talk about what they needed to do. And my grandfather was one of those people who would let them hold meetings in his home.
57:53 Speaker 03 Wow.
57:54 Speaker 04 And he was real active and progressive. And of course, he was a minister, so a lot of times, you know, he was fighting against the church at the same time because they wouldn't be as supportive a lot of times.
58:10 Speaker 03 That's quite the line to walk at that time.
58:13 Speaker 04 It is, oh, yeah.
58:14 Speaker 03 It's interesting.
58:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, I always, when I tell this story, when I'm doing my shows, I always say, "My grandfather was a Christian in the true sense of the word."
58:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, that makes sense.
58:26 Speaker 04 He walked the walk and talked the talk.
58:29 Speaker 03 That's beautiful.
58:30 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, you can tell this song comes from a deep
58:34 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:35 Speaker 03 knowledge of the struggles.
58:37 Speaker 04 Mm-hmm.
58:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's what I love about it. It's so powerful.
58:41 Speaker 04 It's good not to forget.
58:43 Speaker 03 It's important.
58:45 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:45 Speaker 03 Yeah. That's why songs are good, to help you.
58:50 Speaker 04 Right, help you, help to gently remind you to get off your ass and be progressive and move forward.
59:00 Speaker 03 Yeah. Do you do that song every night?
59:04 Speaker 03 No?
59:04 Speaker 04 Not every night, but I'm thinking I'm gonna probably wanna do it at the, tomorrow night at the Beacon, I might wanna do it, yeah. It's just so relevant, the audience just seems to really gravitate towards it.
59:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, it was like, the first time I heard it, I was, I was like, it's one of those songs where you don't need to know it, it just strikes you as soon as you hear it.
59:33 Speaker 04 Yeah.
59:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
59:34 Speaker 04 It reminds me, you know, of course, I was inspired so much by a lot of the beautiful, older protest songs that we used to sing, like "We Shall Overcome", you know.
59:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
59:46 Speaker 04 It probably reminds me of that one the most.
59:50 Speaker 03 Yeah, it does.
59:51 Speaker 04 Whenever those songs would be sung by a group of people, it just felt so wonderful to be included in that group, singing with other people the same song and feeling a similar way, you know, and there was just this, such a strong connection between the people singing it and, you know, it's just a good feeling.
1:00:15 Speaker 03 There must, yeah, there's nothing like that.
1:00:17 Speaker 04 There's nothing like that.
1:00:18 Speaker 03 Wow.
1:00:19 Speaker 04 And so I was trying to, I wanted to get that feeling again of, you know, how that felt back then to... You know, be doing marches and singing those songs, you know,
1:00:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:33 Speaker 04 and everything.
1:00:34 Speaker 03 It's beautiful.
1:00:35 Speaker 06 OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
1:01:03 Speaker 03 If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before
1:01:46 Speaker 03 the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:01:58 Speaker 07 Hello, hello, I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.
1:02:09 Speaker 10 AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where.
1:02:25 Speaker 07 Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.
1:02:29 Speaker 03 The new album has a really beautiful song on it, "Where the Song Will Find Me."
1:02:35 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:02:36 Speaker 03 I was wondering if we should do that one.
1:02:38 Speaker 04 Yeah, that'd be great.
1:02:40 Speaker 03 This song, how, how, when did you, do you remember when you wrote this song?
1:02:44 Speaker 04 Well.
1:02:47 Speaker 04 The interesting thing about this is I actually got some help on this from my husband and manager, Tom Overby, who, as it turns out, is, it's come to my attention, is a pretty darn good songwriter. You know, apparently he, along, before we met a long time ago, he had been interested in writing and, and all of that. And it came to the surface after we met, and I was working on songs, and he would come up and shyly show me some lyrics that he'd written, an idea.
1:03:20 Speaker 03 Oh, cool.
1:03:21 Speaker 04 You know, he'd say, "I got this idea for something. Now, you don't have to use it if you don't want to. I just wanted to show it to you."
1:03:27 Speaker 03 That's so sweet.
1:03:28 Speaker 04 And I, it was sweet, and I was, I would take it, and I'd look at it, and it would be good, you know?
1:03:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:03:34 Speaker 04 So, this was one that he came up with, that I wrote the melody for.
1:03:39 Speaker 03 Oh, cool. These are his, his lyrics?
1:03:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:03:43 Speaker 03 I love the idea.
1:03:45 Speaker 04 I know. The idea behind it is really different, unique.
1:03:48 Speaker 03 It's so sweet, just that. And then the last line, well, I won't give it away, but the last line is also so beautiful to me.
1:03:57 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:03:58 Speaker 03 Yeah. The feeling of, um, where the song will find me.
1:04:05 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:04:06 Speaker 03 All right, cool. And this is on the new album?
1:04:09 Speaker 04 Yeah, this is on the new album.
1:04:12 Speaker 03 All right, let's try this.
1:04:45 Speaker 04 Standing in the rain,
1:04:53 Speaker 04 And the pouring silver drops.
1:05:00 Speaker 04 I'll ride the whistling train,
1:05:08 Speaker 04 And I'll get off at every stop.
1:05:17 Speaker 05 I wanna be
1:05:24 Speaker 05 Where the song can find me
1:05:32 Speaker 05 I'll walk across the bridge
1:05:40 Speaker 05 And stare up at the stars
1:05:48 Speaker 05 So close to the edge
1:05:55 Speaker 05 And all the passing cars
1:06:04 Speaker 05 Cause I wanna be
1:06:11 Speaker 05 Where the songs will find me
1:06:19 Speaker 05 I wanna be
1:06:26 Speaker 05 Where the song can find me
1:06:37 Speaker 05 I know they will find me like they somehow do I know they will find me when it's time to
1:06:53 Speaker 05 I know they'll remind me when they're ready to be found
1:07:01 Speaker 05 They'll come up behind me, not making a sound Not making a sound
1:07:26 Speaker 05 I find myself alone
1:07:35 Speaker 05 In the madding crowd
1:07:42 Speaker 05 On the bustling New York streets
1:07:50 Speaker 05 People talking loud
1:07:58 Speaker 05 Sitting on a stool
1:08:06 Speaker 05 In the corner of a bar
1:08:14 Speaker 05 The errand of a fool
1:08:22 Speaker 05 Has carried me this far
1:08:31 Speaker 05 To a place
1:08:37 Speaker 05 Where the sun can find me
1:08:47 Speaker 05 To a place
1:08:53 Speaker 05 Where the sun can find me
1:09:04 Speaker 05 I know they will find me like they always do
1:09:12 Speaker 05 I know they will find me when it's time to.
1:09:20 Speaker 05 I know they will find me when they're ready to be found. They'll come up behind me without making a sound. Without making a sound.
1:10:25 Speaker 05 I wanna feel that moment
1:10:32 Speaker 05 when the song can find me.
1:10:40 Speaker 05 I wanna feel that moment
1:10:48 Speaker 05 when the song can save me.
1:11:19 Speaker 04 Yay.
1:11:20 Speaker 03 Yay. I think we got it. That was beautiful.
1:11:23 Speaker 04 Wow.
1:11:24 Speaker 03 It was a beautiful song.
1:11:26 Speaker 04 Thank you. Sounds so good with the piano. I've never heard it like that before.
1:11:31 Speaker 03 The chords are pretty on this. They're really, I like the little corners they go to, you know?
1:11:35 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:11:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:11:37 Speaker 04 I love that you picked that up probably when you heard the recording. Because some, I guess Doug's doing that on the guitar or something that. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.
1:11:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:11:52 Speaker 03 And then he, I'm like, where's he gonna go? And he's like, and he slides into that. It was so pretty.
1:11:57 Speaker 04 I love that. That's beautiful.
1:11:59 Speaker 03 That's Doug Pettybone? Yeah. It's be, I love, I love his guitar playing so much.
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1:12:36 Speaker 03 If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.
1:13:21 Speaker 03 Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:13:31 Speaker 07 Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.
1:13:41 Speaker 10 AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where.
1:13:58 Speaker 07 Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.
1:14:03 Speaker 03 This was so fun. Thank you so much.
1:14:06 Speaker 04 Oh, I just thoroughly enjoyed it.
1:14:09 Speaker 03 I'm so glad you were up for it. Yeah.
1:14:11 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. Well, I've made myself up for it, so.
1:14:15 Speaker 03 Well, I appreciate that. Man, when you're on the road, it's hard to be up for anything on a day off.
1:14:21 Speaker 04 This was an exception.
1:14:23 Speaker 03 Well, I'm so glad.
1:14:24 Speaker 04 I knew I was going to want to do this, and I wanted to do as best of a job as I could.
1:14:29 Speaker 03 You did great. You sound great.
1:14:31 Speaker 04 Thank you. Like, when we were first communicating about doing this, and you said, and I said something about rehearsing the songs first, and you said, "No, we're just going to jump right in." And I totally got that. But when you get it, when it's spontaneous, there's nothing like that.
1:14:50 Speaker 03 Exactly. Yeah. I'm glad you were down for that.
1:14:53 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. I understand that concept. That's how you record.
1:14:58 Speaker 03 Well, yeah, me too.
1:14:59 Speaker 04 That's how she makes her records. She goes in.
1:15:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, I don't like to rehearse.
1:15:02 Speaker 04 I don't like to rehearse either.
1:15:05 Speaker 03 No, it's the kiss of missing it.
1:15:07 Speaker 04 Yeah. It is.
1:15:09 Speaker 03 Well, thank you so much.
1:15:11 Speaker 04 Well, thank you for having me.
1:15:13 Speaker 03 I love you so much.
1:15:14 Speaker 04 I love you so much.
1:15:16 Speaker 03 Thank you. I hope you're having a great time out there and feeling the love from the audience.
1:15:21 Speaker 04 I loved it, Nora. I really did. I mean, I've never, just being able to sit here and hear you play piano this close up and everything, just.
1:15:31 Speaker 04 You know, I'm a fan.
1:15:32 Speaker 03 Yay, I'm a fan. Thank you Travis for joining us.
1:15:36 Speaker 09 Hey, thank you for allowing me to be here. This was, this was a treat.
1:15:40 Speaker 04 It was lovely and beautiful and I just, one of the songs we were doing, I kinda got chills a little bit.
1:15:46 Speaker 03 Oh, good.
1:15:47 Speaker 04 My heart was just so big and just going, oh, love, love. Sometimes I just get these just overwhelming feeling of, and I just wanna hug everybody and...
1:16:02 Speaker 03 That's the good stuff.
1:16:03 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:16:04 Speaker 03 Yeah. That's a good place to be. Well, I'm gonna hug you now. Is that okay?
1:16:08 Speaker 04 Yes. Please.
1:16:25 Speaker 03 Aw, Malu, aw, so sweet. She's just so great. She's a hugger. Yeah, of course, southern, southerner. Yeah. I loved her stories. Also, I gotta say to everyone out there, and also you, I don't know if you read it, but her book is great. I have not read her book yet, but I am going to now. I really enjoyed it. Just hearing her talk about her parents, it was really moving and it's an interesting story. It's called "Don't Tell Anybody The Secrets I Told You", and it's great. She's very giving with her stories about her songs, which I really didn't expect. I always expect people to be a little more protective of that stuff. I don't know why, maybe because I am. Yeah. But I like when they're not,
1:17:08 Speaker 03 because it's really nice to get a little peek into stuff. And really good stories to go with everything. Yeah, it's beautiful. If you wanna hear the names of the songs we played in this episode, the first one was "Something About What Happens When We Talk", from Sweet Old World, 1992. That's one of my favorite songs. The second song, also one of my favorites, "Bus To Baton Rouge", from Essence, which was released in 2001. The third one, which is also one of my favorite newer songs, "We've Come Too Far To Turn Around", she released this on an album called Vanish Gardens, which she made with saxophonist Charles Lloyd from 2018. Number four, we played "Where The Song Will Find Me", which was from a newer record, 2022,
1:17:53 Speaker 03 called "Stories From A Rock And Roll Heart". I love that song. Special thanks to Lucinda Williams and Travis Stevens for joining us today. We'll be back next week with Ifa O'Donovan. Norah Jones is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Norah Jones. Thanks for listening. Today's episode was recorded at Seersound in New York City by Stephen Sacco, assisted by Maximilian Trope and Moes Wheeler and Jasper Leach. Mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda, with additional recording by Matt Marinelli. Audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Frye. Photography by Shirvan Lanaz. Coordinating producer Rachel Ward.
1:18:35 Speaker 03 Executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead, Queen Anaki. And produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda. Hey, that's us. Thanks so much for listening. Adios.
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