443: Tricksters: Does Whatever A Spider Can

🕷️Spiders don't have tails, but this one has tales. Anansi is one of the most famous folklore tricksters in the world, but we'll see that behind every great trickster...is likely a trail of broken and/or angry people who want to get even. 😈 The Creature: Tsuchinoko People are crazy about this chonky snake. I honestly don't even get it. --- 📖 The Book! Myths and Legends has our first book coming out on December 1st! FOR THE KING is a comprehensive retelling of Arthurian legend, focused on humanity and written for the modern age. If you like the podcast, you'll love the book, and preorders are a massive help to us. Check it out here: https://myths.link/preorder 🔗 Links: Membership: https://www.mythpodcast.com/membership Source: https://myths.link/anansi Myths and Legends YouTube: https://myths.link/youtube Tsuchinoko on TV Tropes: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsuchinoko 💬 Social: Discord: https://myths.link/discord Instagram: https://myths.link/instagram Bluesky: https://myths.link/bluesky --- 📢 Sponsors Quince: Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to https://Quince.com/legends https://quince.com/legends for 365-day returns and free shipping on your order. BetterHelp: This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at https://betterhelp.com/myths Home Chef: For a limited time, Home Chef is offering my listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box plus free dessert for life! Go to https://homechef.com/legends Granola: If meetings are eating up your day, Granola is a no-brainer. You can try it totally free - just head to https://granola.ai/LEGENDS. --- 🎵 Music Credits Motherless Brooklyn by Breakmaster Cylinder Signs in the Snow by Breakmaster Cylinder Driptape by Blue Dot Sessions Mazzaorra by Blue Dot Sessions Patched In by Blue Dot Sessions Basal Fife by Blue Dot Sessions

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  This time, on Myths and Legends, we're telling the stories of the legendary trickster, Anansi, from West African folklore. We'll see how to recruit small lizards and spider children to help you out with your capers, and that if someone gets mad that you made fun of them and doesn't want to hang out with you anymore, they must pay. The creature this time is a rotund little snake who's more popular than you'll ever be.

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  This is Myths and Legends, episode 443, Does Whatever a Spider Can?

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  This is a podcast where we tell stories from mythology and folklore. Some are incredibly popular tales you might think you know, but with surprising origins. Others are stories that might be new to you, but are definitely worth a listen. We've told Anansi stories on this podcast before, a long time ago, actually, in episode 32. So, Anansi is an interesting character because, even more than most tricksters, he's both aspirational and a cautionary tale. He's someone who very much lives by his own rules and will not bend in the face of even the strongest enemies. This is aspirational for, say, people who were enslaved and taken across an ocean and subjugated in a world they didn't recognize.

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  If, however, you live in a close-knit society where people rely on one another, well, Anansi is at best a scoundrel, and at worst, a monster people can rally against. Because of how far the Anansi stories have traveled, there's no official or canon Anansi tales. I found these in a book of African folklore, so while it's not super-specific, I'm inclined to believe they came from the Akon people in Ghana and along the Ivory Coast. Anansi is a Spider-Man, kind of. It really depends on the story, how much man and how much spider there is. Basically, it's pretty loose. But in most, he's a functioning member of human society in at least some way. Anyway, we'll catch up with Anansi by going back in time

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  to his single days. But all that's about to change because Anansi and his friend are headed into town to meet some wives.

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  Anansi, the Spider-Man, was walking with his neighbor, a man whose parents both had a ton of money and apparently also a cruel sense of humor. Maybe it was a boy-named-Sue situation where, to help ensure their son would grow up to be successful and to be someone in the world, they named him Nothing. Nothing's name ended up being ironic, like a massive Looney Tunes goon named Tiny or Little John being the biggest man in Robin Hood's crew, because Nothing took his inheritance and, through shrewd maneuvering, increased it tenfold. But he never forgot where he came from, or his friends, like Anansi. "A

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  thin, ragged cotton cloth?" Hmm, Nothing pointed out. "He just thought that Anansi would probably wear his best clothes to go get wives." And yes, that's why they were on the way to town, to get some wives. "Nothing, let me tell you something about love," Anansi declared. "You should never marry someone who loves you for what you can give them. You should marry someone who loves you for who you are. That's why I'm wearing this raggedy cloak. I might only meet one wife, but we will love each other no matter what." "That's actually kinda sweet," Nothing smiled. "Still, I don't dress nicely just for me, but sort of because I want to show respect for those around me by putting my best foot

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  forward." Anansi looked Nothing up and down with a laugh. "Hey, I feel respected. That is a beautiful velvet cloak." He wasn't as rich as Nothing. In fact, he didn't know if he would ever be able to afford such a beautiful cloak as that. There was a pause. "Wow, to even, like, imagine what that might feel like against my skin is one of the most rewarding experiences I think I might ever have." There was another, longer pause as the two men walked. "That alone would be such a gift," Anansi said, mustering as many tears as he

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  could. "Like, three?" "Do you want to try on the cloak, Anansi?" Nothing asked, and found Anansi's own thin, ragged cloth cloak thrust into his hands, and the spider fingers grasping. Anansi threw the velvet over his shoulders and exhaled. "Okay, can I get my cloak back, Anansi?" Nothing asked, suddenly worried about lice and fleas, or whatever else felt like was crawling on his skin. Anansi's knitted brow and protruding lower lip pleaded. "Aww, could he please use it for just a widow Wongar?" "Why are you talking like that? We're almost there, and I wore this cloak for a reason," Nothing said. "Correction,

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  we are there," Anansi said, and strode into town wearing Nothing's cloak. Well, Nothing scratched underneath Anansi's nasty, repurposed blanket.

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  The three young women laughed at Nothing's new, solitary wife. "Yes, wives, yes," Anansi said. "Laugh at her. Make her feel bad her mom pitied this Nothing man and his paltry cloak, such that she gave up her daughter to him. Your families made the right choice. Make her feel terrible about the life she'll have with him." "Anansi, come on, what are you doing?" Nothing said as he walked next to his wife. "I'm just joking, bud. Relax. We all know you're Nothing." He turned back to his wives with a wink. They giggled, not knowing that his name was literally Nothing. A servant up ahead waved his arms for his

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  master. "Ah, he had a successful trip in town and returned." The servant had come with refreshments and fresh clothes. Anansi's wives rushed forward, but Nothing got there first. "Anansi, what are your wives doing?" Nothing said when they reached for the cup. "Nothing, please. It's a long walk back. At least be neighborly," Anansi said as he reached for a goblet of his own, one that was retracted by the servant with a glance from Nothing. "I've done enough for you today," Nothing said, tossing the raggedy cloak down in the dirt, and sighing as his servant draped the new one over his shoulders. As the six people

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  continued on, roads began to diverge. The women with Anansi drifted without thinking to the wider paved road. Nothing held up his hand. "Sorry, but that was the road to his house." Their families had chosen Anansi for them and hadn't given Nothing a second look. Unfortunately, they needed to live with their family's choices and go with their new husband. "Come on, wives," Anansi waved for them. His robe was half-finished, and the finished side was in disrepair, long neglected and overgrown. Squinting down the wide paved road, the women saw the palace looming beyond the animal skins countless

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  servants had spread for their master and his wives to walk on. Reluctantly, they followed Anansi. Nothing's fields and crops obscured the owner until the man and his wife were out of sight completely. The women despaired when the road, farther in, where only Anansi traveled, became worse and worse, terminating at his house, his hut with something resembling, but not quite equivalent to, a roof. Walking through a door that was mostly just decorative at this point because they were still, in fact, outside, Anansi took a moment and wrapped the velvet cloak tighter. He closed his eyes and luxuriated in, for even just a moment,

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  feeling like someone who didn't need to experience the consequences of his own poor decision-making. He took it off and tossed it on the floor. After the first week of marriages, Anansi was up one roof and down one wife. The women didn't want to sleep exposed to the sky, and since some house maintenance was to be expected in such a role in society at this time, they patched the walls and got thatch for the roof. They procured firewood and water. When asked where the plantains were so they could get started on the foo-foo, Anansi returned, out of breath, with an armful. He told them to dig a hole to stash them so they could "ripen," but do it quickly. And a stern-looking man and his brothers from the village came just as Anansi finished piling dirt on, saying that they had followed the trail of stolen

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  plantains here. Anansi invited them to search the house and laughed at them when they turned up Nothing. The wives peeled the plantains afterward, but they wouldn't be ripe for days, if ever. Anansi declared that they wanted plantains, so we got them plantains. Ugh, man, complain much? After the third straight meal of unripe plantains and the peppers that seemed to grow in Anansi's land despite Anansi, one wife stood and walked out the door. Oh, oh, he was sorry that he couldn't be as fortunate as Nothing, that the seasons had been unpredictable and his crops either kept failing or wouldn't grow, and that his livestock had been carried off by him because he was hungry. "Aren't you

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  neighbors with Nothing?" one wife said. "I mean, don't you experience the exact same seasons? It looks like no crops were planted at all, and the crop that's never planted never grows." Anansi nodded. "That was a brilliant idea, wife, too. Tomorrow, his two remaining wives would get planting." The second woman who left took longer to leave than the first. She and her co-wife plowed the fields and planted the crops.

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  Wives two and three left together, returning to the village and their families, effectively divorcing Anansi on account of his own fraud. Then, months later, wife two returned to the house, where the thatch was already beginning to fall away and what crops that had sprouted in her absence had withered to chaff. Her face was tear streaked and her abdomen swollen. She was with the child. She could leave, but Anansi, as the father and her husband, would have rights over the life of the child. Further, her family couldn't easily secure a new match for her now, so she was forced to return.

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  The other women had secured a new match. Anansi could see them across the wide fields, where he forced his wife to come with him as he snuck onto Nothing's land to steal food. The women were pampered in the palace. Anansi glowered. Nothing was making a fool of him. For that, he would pay.

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  "Another one of her cooks is ill? He might die," Nothing's wife said over dinner. Nothing shook his head. "That was bizarre. How did that keep happening?" The wives looked at one another and then to Nothing. Were they really having this conversation again? They knew who it was. The same person who hung all those logs to drop and swing at his head like some Ewok trap. Or the person who lined his cloak with knives. Or the person who hired those goons but didn't pay them enough to wait all day, so they left before Nothing made his trip into town in the afternoon. "We don't know about that last one," Nothing said. "We do. Anansi's wife warns us of everything. It's Anansi." Nothing sighed.

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  He refused to believe that his neighbor, his friend, was capable of that. "If you let him continue, one of these times he'll be successful. He needs to be punished. It's the only thing he understands," the wife said. But Nothing shook his head. He couldn't believe Anansi would do something like all of those things. "Anansi's life is punishment enough," Nothing said. "Taking a bite of dinner? I can't imagine being him." The wife said that was the problem. Nothing couldn't imagine being him, so he didn't know what Anansi was capable of, the lengths he would go to in order to avenge even the pettiest slight.

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  Nothing refused to speak on it anymore, though, and said that he, they, would take the high road. They would persist. The wives weren't wrong, of course. Anansi was very much taking the low road, what with all the attempted murders, especially now, too, because Anansi had found a rat. Anansi sat down on the ground, across from the literal rat. He apologized for insisting that this couldn't be in his home. Anansi's wife just hated rats. The rat understood. He was trying to combat that stereotype and actually preferred to do his business out in the open like this, show everyone he had nothing to hide. "So, you dig, right?"

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  Anansi studied the rodent. The rat said they would do anything Anansi needed, and their prices wouldn't be beat. Anansi stood in haste. He had a client that preferred anonymity, but, well, the rat looked like a trustworthy fellow. Did the rat know Nothing? Rat was almost offended, but quickly understood that Anansi was talking about the guy. "Oh, yeah, Nothing, great man." "Well, someone is trying to kill him," Anansi said, with no small degree of panache. As Rat knew, Anansi was Nothing's neighbor and best friend, so he was taking the initiative here. They were gonna set a trap for the murderer. The plan was this: a hole, a deep hole, right in front of Nothing's front door.

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  Rat would dig into the field and bore it at a safe distance, working underground, digging it out until there was just a thin layer of earth under Nothing's front step. Then, they would lure the murderer, and he would fall in the hole. The rat asked why Anansi was coming to him and not Nothing, but Anansi only laughed. "Rat really was a decent guy, huh? Couldn't think like a criminal at all. If the bad guy saw Nothing talking to the rat, then he would draw the conclusions and avoid the trap." Rat nodded. "Wow, yeah, that made sense. Nothing was lucky to have such a good friend looking out for him." It took a while, and Rat had to bring in extra guys and buy more tools for the job, but eventually, he did it.

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  He cleared out everything, save a load-bearing amount of dirt that Anansi said he himself would get when the time was right to lure the murderer. Rat brought out the papers to settle up, but Anansi looked at the setting, said, "Uh, it was getting late. Tomorrow." Tomorrow, Rat would get everything he had coming to him. "Wow, paid in full tomorrow? Because there's no other way to read that? Thanks. You've really been great," Rat said, threw his pickaxe over his shoulder, and whistled while he walked away. After that, Anansi got to work himself.

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  "I have to give him a chance," Nothing sighed, looking out the window. "You actually don't," Nothing's first wife said. The others agreed. He really didn't. Anansi had been standing out in front of Nothing's manor, beating his chest and weeping, saying that he was sorry if Nothing's feelings were hurt by things that may or may not have transpired and that Nothing felt he needed an apology. Anansi wanted to talk it out, see what he did wrong. "This, we're just saying this is not a good faith confession and reconciliation on his part," the wives noted. "At best, he's gonna pick apart what you say and tell you how wrong we all were for feeling deceived, slighted, and abused by him. At worst, it's another murder attempt.

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  I think after the first few murder attempts, your empathy started being a liability, something that he's preying upon. You don't owe him anything." "I believe in forgiveness," Nothing said. "Besides, this is probably nothing like the time last week he made a peace offering and put all those cowtrops in our soup." Nothing opened the door, and Anansi's tears stopped instantly. "Wow, thank you for coming out to talk to me. Can you just walk directly out?" Anansi said. "Just, from where you are, take five steps forward?" "Very specific and odd," Nothing said.

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  "But if that's what it takes to heal this rift, then so be it, friend." Nothing began walking. One, two, three, four. He didn't make it through four, before the ground gave out beneath him, and he slid. That night, after Rat left, Anansi was in the hole, not only gracing up the edges, but lining it with knives and broken glass. Too many knives and too much broken glass. Think of an appropriate number of knives and broken glass shards for a murder pit and then, like, triple it. Say what you want about Anansi, but he didn't do anything halfway, except work, and relationships,

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  and following the law, and most payments and contracts and most things he said. Nothing's wives screamed. "And Anansi joined them? Oh, no! Who could have done such a thing? Those little scurrying footprints? That looks like the job of Rat?" Anansi would make sure that guy was brought to justice for this senseless crime. Before the authorities came from the village, Anansi would just go collect all those things he would let Nothing borrow over the years. Probate court can get so messy. Nothing said a tearful goodbye to his wives, as he died at the bottom of a greasy, knife-strewn pit while Anansi looted his house.

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  Rat, of course, was hunted for his crimes, and his reputation forever tarnished. But then, sentiment subtly shifted against Nothing. When people came to assess what Nothing would pass on to his wives, it turned out his holdings were actually much less than what everyone thought, because the boundaries for the fields were much closer to his home than anyone thought. It seemed he had been farming and raping on Anansi's land. No one would weep for someone who would steal from their neighbor, except Nothing's first wife. She would boil yams and mash them up, walking around the villages and giving them to children if they would weep for her husband. That's why, according to the story, if you find a child crying and ask the parent the

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  cause, you will often be told that he is, quote, "crying for Nothing."

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  Kids cry for no reason all the time, but apparently not. Yeah, the takeaway here is that your child's emotional needs matter and that they're never really crying for nothing. They're crying for nothing. A nice man who fell down a greasy murder pit. Next up, Anansi is starving, but looks upon his deceased grandfather. At least, that's what he's gonna tell the town while he struggles under that delicious antelope carcass, trying to get it back home. But that will be right after this. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates? Where do you even start?

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  Anansi was starving, and this time, it mostly wasn't his fault. It was a time of famine, so even if he had been working the fields, or rather, his children had been working the fields that he inherited from nothing, they wouldn't have had anything to show for it. Hunger can get people to do some crazy things, like for Anansi, work. Everyone was a bit crankier with him than usual, so it made his usual tricks dangerous. In fact, he just made his eldest son, Queku, accidentally rich. Anansi had surprised Queku when the young man found a spring in a forest full of animals. As dad, Anansi had declared ownership and hunted every animal in the forest until the

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  place was quiet, planning to sell the meat in a neighboring village, if only God hadn't found him. Or rather, his son, Queku, who, knowing how wily and manipulative his father was to follow him, also knew how superstitious and downright cowardly his dad was. Queku had hung a puppet from a tree, and Anansi, believing it to be a god, when Queku bellowed behind it with a deep, booming voice, gave up the meat. He arrived back at his village to his son selling the last of it and telling the story to Anansi's humiliation. So Anansi was now out scavenging, and hello there. A dead antelope lay next to two trails of blood.

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  The antelope had gotten extremely lucky and evidently gored its attacker. Then it got decidedly unlucky when it succumbed to its injuries. Whatever had hunted it had eaten a few bites quickly and then stumbled off. But now, slightly rotty meat was back on the menu. Anansi, though, knew that if anyone saw him carrying an antelope carcass, they would steal it, because that's what he would do. And Anansi was unable to see from any perspective but his own extremely limited one, even if to give them the benefit of the doubt. Well, they would steal it, or they would expect him to give to people who were in need. Ugh. Anansi scurried home to get a woven mat.

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  Whatever you're scheming, can you at least keep the collateral damage limited to you? His wife of many years now asked him. Um, wouldn't be collateral damage if I did, Anansi said with a laugh as he dug through the chest at the far end of the room. Uh, but no, I'm not scheming. I know that face, that feverish rush for a random item to do a secretive task. You're scheming. I'm not scheming, Anansi barked, then found the mat. Okay, here it is, the defensiveness. Wait, this is a full-on caper. Are you doing a caper? There's no caper, Anansi said, which was mostly true. It was barely finder's keepers. I don't even care, his wife said.

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  As long as it means we get something to eat and there aren't violent repercussions for me or the children. She turned to go get wood for the fire. And me? No violent repercussions for me either? Anansi asked. Hmm, I think we both heard what I said, his wife replied and left. The Spider-Man, harried for all of his family's requests that he not do harmful, self-destructive things, rolled up the mat and left with a grumble.

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  What do you think he's got in that mat? Leopard said to Wolf. Wolf shrugged. Hey, Anansi, what you got in that mat? Wolf yelled to Anansi, who was struggling under the weight of the bulky, rolled mat. Sweating, the Spider-Man turned. Oh, hey, guys, just his grandpa. He died back in his house from oldness. Our condolences, Leopard said. How old was he? Four... Four hundred? No, that's too old, Anansi said. Um, older than me, but younger than the earth? He nodded and continued on, under the rather large corpse of his spider-grandfather. He thinks we're fools, right? Leopard asked.

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  When Anansi was out of earshot, Wolf rolled his eyes. Ya think? They stalked Anansi as the Spider-Man walked through town, with all the townspeople giving him what bits of food or drink they could spare out of sympathy. Anansi was playing it up, too, because the louder he wept, the more everyone believed him, or at least wanted to keep him moving. As he passed through town, Wolf and Leopard talked about what they'd do. After Queku made a fool of his father before everyone, he revealed something that he probably didn't even intend in his story. His father was a coward. When faced with a threat, he would flee before fighting. A spooky noise and a proto-papermache god had gotten him to drop his meat the last

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  time, and Wolf and Leopard wagered that they could do as much with half this time. So they snuck ahead and climbed a tree between the town and Anansi's house. And when the Spider-Man got close, they shook the tree, made spooky noises, and called him by name. And of course, it worked. Anansi shrieked that it was happening again, but for real this time, dropped the antelope wrapped in a mat, and bolted for home. When he was out of view, the two predators leapt down and dragged off the mat without looking back. They were super happy to find a not-desiccated spider corpse, but a plump antelope won and secreted it back to Wolf's den.

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  Back at the tree, however, Anansi had summoned his courage and returned to find the antelope gone. It took some very light detective work. He might have noticed the claw marks on the trees, the wolf and the leopard prints or the fur tufts on the bark. He didn't, though, and just followed the long line made by the mat that dragged to the Wolf's house. Without making a sound, Anansi, fuming and plotting, headed home. Hey, Mr. J. Anansi's wife heard from the young lizard, whose teeth Anansi was filing. She'd just returned from gathering supplies in town and came home to this? This is gonna take forever if you keep talking, Anansi sighed.

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  Anansi, I was just in town. Apparently someone kidnapped a young lizard from his home? The wife asked, looking at the young lizard in her home. Oh, it's fine. Actually, yes, it technically was kidnapping when I napped him, but he's cool with it now, right, small lizard? Anansi asked the small lizard, and then said the lizard was allowed to speak in order to say yes. Yes, small lizard said. And Anansi went back to filing his teeth. It is a caper now, by the way, Anansi informed his wife. I found an antelope earlier. Wait, for real? An antelope to eat? Mm-hmm, but Wolf and Leopard stole it.

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  I'm gonna get it back, though, because they mocked my intelligence, Anansi declared. Oh, and something, something taking food from my starving family, he muttered. For once, Mrs. Anansi was down with her husband's plans. As long as he kept her or their children out of it, she did want to eat this week.

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  Hey gentlemen, can I get some fire? Small lizard smiled fifteen minutes later, showing off his super filed, super sharp teeth. What are those? Wolf scrambled over and admired Small Lizard's teeth. What are, oh, these? Filing spider did it for me this morning. What do you think? Wolf thought that it would make things like, you know, a theoretical and not at all actual antelope much easier to eat. Trying to tear through that hind leg alone was enough to wear out his jaw. Once again theoretically. Leopard agreed. They gladly gave Small Lizard a little fire before rushing over to Anansi's house.

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  Sorry again about your grandfather, Wolf said with a pouty face. When Anansi answered the door to see him and Leopard. If they could ask, did he file Small Lizard's teeth? Could he do theirs? Anansi said that he would, in fact, he would do it for free. The work was nice to keep his mind off the loss of his grandfather, which of course happened. Fifteen minutes later, they were back at Wolf's house. Anansi with his filing things and he gestured to a nearby tree. Alright, he just needed them to hang upside down. Both Leopard and Wolf looked at Anansi and then at the tree. Um, why? And also, how?

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  Anansi said the why was easy, so the filings fell down to the ground and not down their throats. The how, he could admit was a more challenging problem. For him, a spider, and for Small Lizard, hanging upside down was nearly as easy as standing right side up. For them, things would be more difficult. Oh, okay, he had an idea. Anansi returned with a rope. Wolf and Leopard were so excited for sharp teeth so they could eat that antelope and so sure Anansi was a complete fool and in no way suspected they took said antelope, that they didn't think twice about letting Anansi bind them and hang them upside down from a tree. I am so excited, Wolf howled. I know, right?

• 33:24Speaker 00

  Anansi said and called out to his young sons. Okay, they're bound, you can call them in. Leopard and Wolf looked at each other. Wow, okay, took a whole team then. Takes a village, okay, well, it actually did take a village though, because that was the entire village walking through the trees. Anansi raised up his arms and called out to the crowd when a number of people made it to the clearing by Wolf's house. His younger children got started making the fire. My friends, you might know me as Anansi, the wise, intelligent and classically handsome spider. That was met with confused silence. But today you know me as the one who brings justice.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  Wolf and Leopard in this trying time, found an antelope. Gasps went up. They were going to feast while you starved. There's a saying that you can't con an honest man. Well, that also applies to wolves and leopards apparently. Through my words and also justice, I tied them up. Now, we will all share in the bounty that they tried to withhold. None will engorge themselves, but none will starve. Cheers went up from the people as the children dragged the antelope out and began slicing away the meat, passing it to others to cook and still more to hand out. True to Anansi's words, there was enough for all to get at least a little and soothe that ache in their stomachs.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  At least for a moment. The village came around and thanked Anansi for his generosity and sense of justice. Even Queku, his oldest, who had a strained relationship with his father, came by and said that this was really honorable of his dad. Maybe Queku was wrong. If it was okay with Anansi, he would start coming by his father's house. Too many years had passed and he could see now that he played a role in that divide as well. Thanks, son, I'd like that, Anansi said. The pair embraced. The town toasted Anansi and chanted his name in praise, which though similar in volume and participation

• 35:35Speaker 00

  to the many times they chanted it in rage, this was vastly preferable.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  Hey, Anansi, the Spider-Man's wife asked him. Do you know where three of our kids are? Maybe, Anansi said and walked over. Which three? She said that that's the thing, it changed every few hours. Which three were gone? It occurred with frightening regularity. Just then, three spider boys entered the house with alarm, but stopped the next three from leaving. No need, it was over. I may know something about that. Let me see what this possibly unrelated message is about. If it's even a message, who knows, right? Anansi chuckled and waved for the three spiders who just returned to step into his office.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  The four went to a corner of the hut with several following and the spider boys reported Leopard and Wolf were free. It just happened. Wolf and Leopard had been hanging for two days with no one in the village wanting to help them because of their greed. They would die if they remained much longer, so they were calling out to anyone to help. White Ant and his kids were walking by and knowing nothing of what transpired with the antelope, they listened to the promises of Leopard and Wolf, who said they would provide a great feast for their rescuers. White Ant and his kids went to work. They gnawed through the tree itself and when the predators hit the ground, their ropes loosened.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  Rising, shaking and weak, they thanked White Ant and his family and said, as they promised, they would throw a feast for the insects at noon in three days' time. Anansi began to laugh. Oh, oh, this was too good. No, his wife pointed. What? Anansi said, you're scheming, I can see it on your face. If I am scheming, and I'm not saying that I am, I'm doing it for the children. How are they ever gonna grow up strong if they don't have anything to eat? Anansi pleaded, but his wife said absolutely not. Having them spy on Wolf and Leopard was bad enough, but now he was putting them in danger? Anansi always did this.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  His pride would get wounded and he would take things just a little too far. He already had the praise and adoration of the entire village for the first time in his life. What more did he need? Why keep pushing and pushing until everything collapsed and people got hurt or hated him or both? Anansi took a deep breath. She was right, yeah. He was glad to have someone like her, someone who knew him and could stop him from being the worst version of himself. He took her hand and kissed it. Thank you. Three days later, at 11 a.m., Anansi's wife looked around their empty house. Anansi? Uh, really?

• 38:39Speaker 00

  Anansi and his sons got up and out of the house early that morning to go to a desolate spot in the woods, where Anansi had prepared the ash and the white shirts and pants that he had, well, quickly borrowed prior to informing the merchants in a nearby town the previous day. They coated their skin, dressed and presumably tucked a set of arms in their clothes to be the same as White Ant and his ilk, before leaving for the feast. And it was a feast, a grand one. Leopard and Wolf had spent three days hunting in order to show their appreciation for White Ant and his family, a family they were surprised to see nearly an hour early. Looking at Anansi and the kids, they said they remembered White Ant looking different.

• 39:21Speaker 00

  You were upside down and starving, I'm surprised you could see anything at all, friend, Anansi said. I'm sorry we're so early too. We just wanted to make sure we made it before, well, I'm not from around here and I'm sorry if he's a friend of yours, but I hear of this one Spider-Man? Anansi? He's no friend of ours, Wolf and Leopard sneered. Well, I heard he had his children watching you as you starved? And they learned of the feast. I worried he would arrive and take everything and you would be none the wiser. Looks of intense hatred clouded Wolf and Leopard's faces. They thanked White Ant for telling them, but nothing would stop them from enjoying the feast.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Anansi and his boys did, enjoy the feast that is, and ate nearly everything that the grateful predators offered, leaving just before noon. Anansi doubled back to watch and to also give his wife some time to cool down. Maybe he'd actually sleep in the woods for a few days. White Ant, the real White Ant, and his family showed up as all the tables were being moved inside to a small room. Anansi inched forward as directing them inside. Wolf and Leopard explained that, well, a feast in the time of famine was optics wise, dangerous. They had recently been publicly shamed for such a thing. White Ant entered the burrow and Wolf nodded to Leopard, who went to the large pot of water on the fire.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  There was a slam of a door from inside and Wolf laughed. Nice try, Anansi, terrible disguise by the way, you look nothing like White Ant. You've shamed us for the last time, now you die. Leopard, do it. Wolf's burrow was dug under what remained of a large dead tree and in a gap in the roots, Leopard tipped the cauldron, boiling water poured in and screams echoed out. But not for long. Soon, all that came from the hole, which seemed to Anansi to be quickly draining through the door and into Wolf's burrow, was silence and then weeping. Anansi saw not soon after that it was White Ant.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  He had somehow survived the torrent. Maybe he had been able to chew through the wood fast enough to avoid the bulk of it. Wolf tossed him out hard onto the ground outside. There, all his children were dead. That would teach Anansi to deceive them again. White Ant wept that he didn't know who that was. Why? Why had they killed his children? Why had they tried to kill him? But Wolf and Leopard ignored White Ant. In moments, his grief calcified into hatred. Not just for Wolf and Leopard, not only for whoever this Anansi was, but everything. The whole world that would take his children away from him for only doing what was right. He declared that never again would he help man or beast.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  Instead, he and his children would damage and destroy all that belonged to them. This is why White Ants, or as I have personally known them, termites, have been enemies of everyone, forever gnawing at wood, homes, or any structures they can get. Vengeance for Anansi's deception.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  In this story, Anansi's like Jimmy McGill in Better Call Saul. He won. He could have gotten away with sticking it to the people who insulted him with virtually no repercussions. But he just can't walk away. There's something inside him that won't let him go without that little extra flourish, or the twist of the knife, so that he can feel clever, or soothe his insecurity, or whatever. In the next story, we will see the repercussions of a life like Anansi's, and then see if Anansi can ever truly change. But that will, once again, be right after this. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates?

• 43:34Speaker 00

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• 44:02Speaker 01

  Hey, I'm Nile Rodgers, producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of the group Chic. A great song has a way of defining a moment. A moment of joy, heartbreak, or anything in between. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, dropping in on some of the coolest, most fascinating artists working today. We'll go deep into their lives and careers and hear what it was like before the moment that made them. From hitmakers like Miguel.

• 44:36Speaker 05

  That last year, finishing that record was the hardest experience of my life. Regardless of how everyone else buys into this. I believe in this, and I'm gonna push.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  To rising stars like Alex Warren.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  You know, a song is a story, and the verse is setting the scene. And for me, at least, it's allowing me to be personal and vulnerable with the audience. Whether it's about my wife and I'm being vulnerable about her, or it's about, you know, my parents and I'm being vulnerable to them. And it's almost like a cinematic piece in a way where each song tells that beautiful story.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  It's gonna be one hell of a trip. Experience Before the Moment. A Lincoln Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  Hey, it's Lunchbox from the Bobby Bones Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability, and it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla sedan with the latest features in tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or an adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in. Get a deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 45:58Speaker 06

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• 46:42Speaker 00

  The two men felt bad for the old spider. He sat in front of his house, his land withering in front of him. A few from the village came to leave him food every once in a while. When he heard them, they only got curses in return. He never saw them, though. He didn't see anything, now, really, living in a world of shadows. His wife had finally left him. It wasn't one of his schemes or his displays of callous selfishness. It was all of them. They built up over the years, until there was nothing left between the man and wife but bitterness and disdain. Some of his kids came around every once in a while to give him food or water,

• 47:23Speaker 00

  but none of them tolerated his acrimony over their supposed betrayal to remain very long. The two men, on their way to go fishing, saw Anansi sitting there alone, muttering to himself. They were too young to remember some of his most famous exploits, but too old to not have sympathy on the lonely man. Looking at each other, they nodded and opened the gate. Anansi's vision may have faded with the years, but he could still hear the swing of his gate and the footsteps of the visitors. Walking stick pointed in their general direction. He shouted for them to stop. It didn't sound like his ungrateful kids, too few legs. So whatever it was, he didn't want any, or he didn't do it.

• 48:06Speaker 00

  "We pass you day by day on this road," one of the men said before Anansi interrupted him. "My road, which you don't have the right to." The fisherman kept going. They passed him every day, sitting there miserable. "Who told you I was miserable?" The man sighed. "If it were him, sitting there alone, his only kin dreading coming around, he would be miserable." "Why didn't Anansi come fishing with them?" "Your fragile emotional state sounds like a you problem," Anansi said. "I'm fine. I love it. No wife getting mad at me, no kids needing stuff every day. I can sit here and enjoy the silence. Silence that you are currently ruining.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  But if you need me to go fishing with you, I suppose I can make time for it." One fisherman looked to the other with a smile. They both knew that Anansi, with his intractable pride, would be a tough nut to crack. But they knew he was just lashing out to protect himself from being hurt. It would take time, but they'd get that old spider to soften. "What are you doing? Take your hands off me. I can walk on my own," Anansi said, his cane thudding on the dirt, as the three walked down the road to the shore.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  Six weeks later, as the two men helped Anansi into the boat, them, being now his daily caretakers and companions, could see that when it came to working their way into that cold, withered spider heart, all it took was empathy and time. Way, way more time than six weeks. Probably more time than they had left on this earth, and maybe more time than the earth itself had left. The harsh, cold, and bitter exterior of Anansi had given way, eventually, to a harsher, colder, and even more bitter interior. Despite their patience, or maybe because of it, Anansi had only become meaner to them over the time they had been together.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  Each morning, they led him from his hut, him spitting in vektives at them anytime his foot bumped a rock or root. Like, really specific and hurtful things that they had no idea how he knew. They would come up to the canoe and tell him to step in, and he would face their direction and ask if they thought he couldn't tell where the canoe was. He wasn't a baby, but that was for the best, because one of the men's babies was sick right now, so they didn't even know how to take care of a baby anyway. That man gritted his teeth as Anansi still demanded help into the boat. They paddled out, Anansi absolutely killing any conversation between the two friends. If they brought up anything, he'd find a way to hurl abuse at them about it, and then turn the conversation back to one of his horrible stories

• 51:04Speaker 00

  that usually involved some innocent person or animal dying, so he could get some trivial thing that he wanted. They'd show him where to throw his net. "Oh, I know, I was just about to throw it there." They'd tell him when they were back to shore. "Must you be always talking, talking, talking? You think I don't know that we're on land?" They'd tell him when it was safe to step out. "Obviously, I was just about to step out. Is that okay with you? Do I have your permission?" One morning, they tried to skip his house. He ran after them, berating them in their terrible memory and eyesight. Once they took the long way to the boat, the road that didn't go by his hut, they found him waiting by the canoe. From the stories, his and others, they knew not to underestimate him.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  And they began to grow afraid. Maybe Anansi did need friendship. Everyone did. But maybe Anansi didn't know that. And if there was a common denominator in all Anansi's tales, it was that, no matter how they started, they all became Anansi tales, to the detriment and often danger of anyone else in the story. Sitting in the boat, one of the men helped Anansi with a net of silver scales. "Oh, little baby," Anansi chided. "You think because you'd need help, I do?" Weakling. Still, they kept helping. And Anansi might not be able to see as well as he once did, but he was fast.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Soon, the bottom of the boat was writhing with the slow twitch of dying fish. It was time to go back. While Anansi sat in the back complaining about the sun being too hot and the wind being too cold, one man put a finger to his lips and then dipped the oar in the water hard, bringing the boat to an abrupt stop. Anansi cocked his head. One of the fisherman's mouth clicked as he took a breath, about to speak. "Oh, my gosh. Here, Anansi, throw your net and catch the fish. Here, Anansi, your net is full. Let's take it up." Anansi mocked them. "Now, here, Anansi, we're at the shore. Do you think I can't tell all these things? Do you know who I am?"

• 53:12Speaker 00

  He scoffed, stood, and stepped from the canoe, directly out into the water. The lake muffled his cries, at least the first ones he barked in surprise when the water closed in over his head. By the time his head crested the waves, the men, who immediately started paddling, were back to shore and dragging the canoe. "Should we help him?" one man said to the other. Anger having cooled, the other looked out at Anansi, treading water and yelling curses. "Do you want to give that man, that thing, a helping hand right now? Besides, he looks like he can swim well enough," the man said. "He always knows where the shore is and where to get out of the boat.

• 53:57Speaker 00

  Let him find it. I'm done putting up with him. We'll talk to him tomorrow. Either he stops this nonsense, or he stops coming with us." They scooped the fish up into their nets and headed back to the village. Anansi, seething, half heard the boat scrape the rocks, but with the next wave, lost his bearings. Those men, those soft, worthless men. You don't trick a trickster. He knew he wasn't at the shore. He told himself. It was a test, a test they failed. All it took was time for someone to reveal their true face. Like everyone else in his life, they were his enemies. And like all his enemies, they would pay.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  But first, he had to make it back to shore. Treading water, he listened as best as he could, but it would be a guess. He swam for about 15 minutes straight, longer than he had ever ridden in their plodding little boat. It wasn't the right direction. He stopped and turned, swimming again, but again, after far too long, he stopped. He dove, but couldn't feel the bottom. And then, when his head broke the surface of the water, he swore. Now more turned around than ever, he could be swimming back in the direction he had just come. He bet those fishermen were on the shore, snickering at him. He wouldn't give them the satisfaction of crying out.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  So, for the next several hours, Anansi swam this way and that. Out and back and out again, he swam in endless water, the shore always in another direction. In the darkness of night, Anansi, exhausted, dipped below the water and drowned soon after. The end.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  His whole life, Anansi had never been able to find the shore, the figurative shore. He had climbed into the boats of others, sometimes staying there for a long time, using them as he used nothing, his enemies, his wife, and then his children. He tricked and used everyone, even the gods in some stories. Because of everyone's pity, he never stayed in the water long enough to know that he was drowning. Still, he took and took until everyone saw him for what he was. All his friends became enemies because, to him, it was never friendship to begin with, only a transaction, where Anansi was determined to never be the one holding the bag. Most spiders are solitary creatures,

• 56:42Speaker 00

  but if you learn to be part of a community, accept kindness, and be kind in return, he could have ridden the metaphorical boat to shore and lived. Instead, he died alone, destroyed by his own scorn and ingratitude. Fun note to end on. Another quick note, just to echo what I said at the top of the show. These are Anansi tales, but there's no real canonical Anansi. So while this is a death of Anansi, it's not the death of Anansi. We might come back to the story, so let me know. Next time, it's dwarves. I wanted to do another episode on Diedrich of Berne and the dwarf Loren, but discovered that his grandpa's friend had a super fascinating, super weird life.

• 57:26Speaker 00

  Hey, do you like thousand-year-old legends retold in a comprehensive way for the modern day? I mean, you just kind of listen to a bunch, so I hope so. Well, this probably won't come as a surprise, but Myths and Legends has a book coming out. It's a three-book comprehensive retelling of the King Arthur legends. And the first comes out December 1st of this year. It takes a thousand years of Arthur scholarship and adaptations throughout the Middle Ages and weaves it into a tale where it all fits and makes sense. We're so excited, and I think you'll love it. If you'd like to help us and the podcast out, pre-ordering is so, so important. There are links to everything in the show notes. Thank you so much.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  The creature this time is the Souchinoko, a chunky snake yokai from Japanese folklore. I'll be real, I do not see the appeal of this creature, especially because more than most, this creature has elicited a very strong, positive response from people very recently. A backup. The central idea behind the Souchinoko is, what if a snake was shaped like a beer bottle? And also sometimes liked to get drunk on sake? And this isn't even like a big snake. It's only between 30 and 80 centimeters, so one to three feet long. It's venomous, which is also not noteworthy as far as snakes go. The main difference about it is that its body is thicker than its head or its tail.

• 58:55Speaker 00

  Who it is may not be that interesting, but what it does, well, it's also not that interesting as far as creatures go. But anyway, like the hoop snake from the United States, it can bite its tail and use its body as a wheel. Gotta wonder how effective that means of transportation is. Sure, wheels are nice, but it's also then rolling on rocky terrain, using its spine and organs as shock absorbers. What's the most interesting to me is that not only can it jump, depending on the source, from one to five meters, but it can then jump again without touching the ground, essentially doing a double jump. They have eyelids, so they can wink at you, I guess. And they snore. It calls out with a "chi" sound,

• 59:38Speaker 00

  and you can lure one to you with the smell of miso, dried squid, and burning hair. Okay, so back in the 80s in Japan, I guess there were a ton of sightings of this creature in the Nara Prefecture. Rumor and fuzzy photos circulated, until a member of the Shimokitayama Village Council decided to put some money on the line. Whoever brought in a living Souchinoko would get 1 million yen, equivalent to about 7,500 US dollars then. Whoever brought in a skin sample would get 300,000 yen. Around 200 people participated in the Souchinoko expedition, but the decline of the Japanese economy in the early 90s meant that giving away money for pudgy snakes probably felt like less of a priority than in the boom times of the late 80s.

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  The Souchinoko must have had an effect on creatives, though, because not only does this thing have its own TV tropes page, linked in the show notes, but it shows up by name in several anime. It's in many video games. You can eat one in the Metal Gear Solid series. And it apparently inspired the Pokemon Dun sparse, which is like the Souchinoko with tiny wings and a drill tail. And it inspired the Great Serpent of Ranca in Final Fantasy XIV, which I haven't played. In most instances, the creature in games or fiction appears to be extremely rare, another instance of art imitating life. Apparently, the Nikkei 225 just beat its 1989 high two years ago in February 2024.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  So here's hoping somebody takes the lead and funds a new Souchinoko expedition.

• 1:01:14Speaker 00

  That's it for this time. Myths and Legends is by Jason and Carissa Weiser. Our theme song is by Broke for Free, and the Creature of the Week music is by Steve Colmes. There are links to even more of the music we used in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.

• 1:01:35Speaker 07

  This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features and tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in, get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:02:16Speaker 06

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• 1:02:48Speaker 06

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