Clear out your clutter

Got piles of stuff you just can't seem to get rid of? Professional organizer Star Hansen explains how to let go of unnecessary items – and keep your home neat and tidy. This episode originally published December 12, 2023. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:17Marielle Segarra?

  You're listening to Life Kit from NPR.

• 0:25Marielle Segarra?

  Hey, everybody. It's Marielle. I have a series of hooks by my front door for coats and stuff. And there are five hooks. You know, you'd think that would be enough, but somehow, all five of them are dragging under the weight of my stuff. Tote bags, backpacks, my leather jacket, my wool coat, my puffer jacket, a hoodie, my denim jacket, that red leather purse that I never actually use. The clutter, it just piles up at the front door, on the table, on the desk, on that chair in my bedroom that's never available for sitting. Starr Hansen is a certified professional organizer. And she says all of this stuff is trying to tell me something.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  Clutter does speak to us. Clutter is talking to us because we are talking to ourselves through our clutter. And so what becomes clutter and where your clutter accumulates says a lot about what's going on with you.

• 1:18Marielle Segarra?

  Maybe you're a busy parent, or you're up against too many deadlines at work, or you're going through a health challenge.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Clutter looks like anything you can imagine. Clutter looks like the way we talk to ourselves. It looks like our calendar. It looks like our Netflix queue. You know, it's not just physical stuff. It's anything that is causing chaos in our lives.

• 1:39Marielle Segarra?

  But we can get this under control. On this episode of Life Kit, how to declutter. Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle talks with Starr about organizing. And it's not all pretty boxes, label makers, and throwing out everything in your house.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, we have this assumption that we should just jump and get rid of things, right? Things to all the makeover shows and all of that. It's just, it's so easy, just get rid of it. But it's not, right? The more that people address that deeper root of the clutter, the easier it is to release the clutter.

• 2:09Marielle Segarra?

  Starr will share practical tips for decluttering and also help you approach this process with curiosity rather than shame.

• 2:19Speaker 03

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• 3:45Marielle Segarra?

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• 4:49Marielle Segarra?

  Star, in every place I've lived, no matter how organized I am, no matter how big or small the space, no matter what good intentions I go in with it with, I always, always end up with a junk drawer. It starts as the utility drawer, batteries, that spare thing of scissors, tape, things like that. And then inevitably, it just gets away from me. Every takeout menu, a catch-all for my condiment packets, or just napkins, you get the picture. I don't need to go on. But it's a habit that I just can't seem to shake, and it haunts me. What might that clutter be saying to you?

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Well, let's dial into the superficial level first, which is just, we're busy and it's not a priority. Would you rather get rest, sleep eight hours tonight, or clear your junk drawer? Would you rather cuddle with your puppy or clear your junk drawer? It's just not a high priority activity. So that's part of it. So we just want to name that and let it be OK. That ideally stops us from feeling that shame and guilt buildup. The second part is, the junk drawer is a great example of an unhoused graveyard, basically. So where do the things go that don't have a home? And generally speaking, it's because we're not quite sure. Like, I don't know, do I want that? I might need that extra silverware set from takeout.

• 5:59Marielle Segarra?

  And then never, ever use them.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Totally. And also, too, you're bumping up against those feelings that we have in a disposable, consumer-driven society, which is what a waste. What a waste of that tree that created the chopsticks. What a waste of the plastic that's housing the chopsticks. So we're not just dealing with clutter. We're looking at our value system. So you holding on to those chopsticks is you saying, I don't want to waste on our beautiful, precious planet. And it's really complicated because we live in a world where to not accumulate excess requires a next-level ferocity of saying no. And then we wonder why we're all drowning in stuff. We have so much thrown at us all the time.

• 6:41Speaker 04

  What about if you live with someone who has a very different clutter personality than you? So, for example, I tend towards maximalism when it comes to decor. My partner is very much team clean, open spaces.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  So what's really important is you want to make sure that you all have established your safe spaces. So, and when I say safe spaces, I just mean where are you allowed to clutter? Because every person should be able to behave with their stuff the way that they naturally need to and want to. Because sometimes people need and want a chaotic energy around them. If you look at artists, have you ever walked into an artist's studio that was like perfectly organized and minimalist?

• 7:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's not clutter, it's creative chaos.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Totally. I have a client who's neurodivergent and she thrives in having her clothes everywhere. And her husband has been diagnosed with OCD and he can't tolerate it. So they have to create different corners of the house that are for them. Then you want to come together and say, okay, great, consciously, what are we choosing for this room? What are the rules and guidelines for this room? And this is tricky because a lot of times we move into the house and we are just, you know, hobbling over that finish line, dragging ourselves by one fingernail to cross. And we barely have energy to unpack boxes, let alone set up intentions and set up rules for, you know, life. So it's really important that you take the time.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  It doesn't matter if you moved in five years ago or five days ago. Taking the time to say, wow, I'm noticing that we are having some incongruence in this room. Can we get on the same page? Because one of the things that's really important is, for some people, clutter is not something you're going to just eliminate. You're not going to suddenly become a minimalist. And what we want to do is stop judging people who experience clutter in their lives and who it's part of how they process.

• 8:28Speaker 04

  Hmm, that's great. What I'm hearing there, just like in many other facets of relationships, is that there's going to be some compromises and everyone needs their own space too. Is clutter a problem if it doesn't bother you? Does clutter only become a problem when it bothers you?

• 8:42Speaker 02

  It is only a problem if it's a problem for you. And it's really important that we mind our own side of the street because again, you don't know what someone is going through. It sounds like I'm very pro clutter and in some ways I am. It is okay to have your clutter. It is okay to have a layer of chaos and disorganization in your life. If we can be okay with that, it allows us to stop the shame, stop the judgment, start to see what the root of it is, so we can actually have a chance of letting it go. As long as we're judging and shaming and attacking ourselves, that clutter is going to hold tight because we need it, you know, to like protect ourselves. But the minute that you can say, no, you know, it's okay, it's okay that it's here and no thank you to your opinion very much. This is how I'm living my life and it's my journey and I'm going to walk it on my own.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  That's a much stronger position for you to be in because then the clutter is your choice.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  Hmm, we're adults and we get to, we get to make the rules.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 9:35Speaker 04

  Um, I'd love to move into the practical a little bit. Any specific tips for making incremental progress on your clutter?

• 9:40Speaker 02

  So when it comes to home organizing, you do really want to start in the easiest place first. I don't recommend starting with the most emotional things or paperwork. Um, you know, memorabilia and paperwork are two things that I say, please save that for further down the line. Because those two tend to be the most emotionally triggering. We are looking at organizing as creating a skill set. Like most people, if they have recurring clutter, do not feel like they have a handle on the process of organizing. And so you don't want to start, you know, with the most difficult thing first. Like if you were going to go for a run, you're not going to choose to run the big sir marathon at a.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  Sure, lifting weights, you go with five pounds before 10 pounds.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Exactly, like he is in, yeah. But then the other thing is, when we look at how the mainstream world talks about organizing, they're talking about creating systems. They're talking about putting things in a pretty box with a label and giving it a home, right? And oftentimes they're also talking about letting go of things. So in my experience, those are two very small pieces of a much bigger puzzle. When it comes to getting organized, if you're only trying to do those two things, getting rid of things or setting up systems, you are missing a lot of other really important stuff that creates organization and maintains organization.

• 10:53Speaker 04

  Star says she's big about setting an intention for a space. So look around that messy office or living room and think,

• 11:00Speaker 02

  what is it that I want to do in this room? How do I want it to feel? And, you know, what do I want it to look like? How do I know what to keep and get rid of?

• 11:08Speaker 04

  For me, it's the bedroom. I store a lot of my clothes under my bed. To be fair to me, my apartment is super short on storage. But also, I have a really hard time letting go of clothes. And they can sometimes take over our bedroom entirely. Star says to help, start thinking about three to five activities you want to do in the room.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  You're going to sleep, you're going to store clothes, you're going to connect with your partner, right? Those are maybe three things that we would say in that space. And we would pull all the clothes out. And I always tell people, don't make decisions as you go. What you want to do is you want to look at your stuff with neutralized, like as though you're helping a friend and none of your stuff means anything to you.

• 11:52Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Just pull them all out and then you want to put them into categories in a clear, neutral space. So like say on top of the bed. So what you want to do is all jeans go here, all T-shirts go here, all socks go here. So you categorize everything all together. Then, once you've pulled everything out and it's all in categories, then you want to go through each pile and make a decision. Does this stay or go? Stay or go? That's what we're kind of looking for, right? And then, once you've gone through all the piles, one pile at a time, and we're looking at doing that the easiest to the hardest. So if you're like, oh, jeans or my kryptonite, save that for the end. Socks, I need to get rid of socks, start there. Whatever's easy, start there, go through each pile. And then, once you're done going through everything, you want to take all those things that you're going to get rid of and get them out right then. Because you want to give yourself that openness, that freedom, that space to think.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  As long as you're looking at things you already made the decision to get rid of, you're kind of keeping yourself stuck in the past. So get it to the car to be donated or by the door.

• 12:46Speaker 04

  Physically move it out of that space.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, get it out of there. And then, and then you want to go through each pile and you want to say, okay, where am I going to store this? That's when we're talking about building systems. Okay, great. Well, I want all my T-shirts hung. So you hang your T-shirts. I want all of the jeans folded and put into this bin underneath my bed. Fold it, put it underneath there, label it on all four sides, shove it under there. You're going to go through each category in that way. When we look at the concept of clutter as a whole, it's like one giant blob of chaos versus, oh, what am I going to do with my jeans? What am I going to do with my tank tops? And it becomes easier to dial into.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  Once you've found a home for everything, Star says it's time to personalize your space and make it beautiful.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  If you put some things in the closet, for example, do you want to paint the wall green? Do you want to hang a painting from your aunt? What do you want in there that reminds you of you and makes you feel happy? Because no one wants to live in a surplus store. You know, we want to feel personal. So what you want is that when you open that door, when you go underneath the bed, there's something that just makes you feel happy and peaceful and recognize yourself. Because when you decorate or when you kind of personalize a space, it stops you from adding more clutter. There's something about it that we won't kind of defile an area if we feel an endearment to it. And then from there, you want to decide what's your maintenance plan, right? So it's pretty, it's set up. Now, how am I going to maintain this?

• 14:06Speaker 02

  What I always tell people is make your maintenance systems for your laziest day. We all are superheroes when we are well-rested and like feeling good. And the truth is, what happens when you come home from traveling? What happens when you get the flu? Those are the moments where we really lose our systems because suddenly we've gotten lost because things didn't go according to plan.

• 14:28Speaker 04

  It makes sense to me that, you know, when things are pretty, when they feel good, it's easier to have that investment and hopefully a long-term investment, right? You want to give yourself the ability to invest in these things. But on that note, there are a lot of, there's a lot of beautiful and also very expensive ways to get organized these days. You know, I'm thinking about Instagram ads for various set of containers and all the videos I see for people's immaculate walk-in panties. Does decluttering have to come with a price tag?

• 14:53Speaker 02

  What I have found in all my years of organizing is in every pile of chaos is the solution. Meaning that when I come into somebody's house and we're organizing an entire room, yes, I could go and buy bins and boxes, but I have never not found the organizing solution buried in the chaos. We all have bought boxes over the years that then become clutter or, you know, things that we had best intentions with. So yes, look, the organizing industry is a $12 billion a year industry and growing, right? It's just getting bigger and bigger. So it's an industry just like anything else and it wants you to spend money. And do all of that. For some people, they really, really want that. You do not need to do that, right? A lot of these systems are hidden.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  A lot of these systems, you are never going to look at again, you know? And so what you're looking for is function more than anything else. I promise you, there is something in your house that you can use for that. Even if it's like a box from your iPhone that you're not using anymore, but the quality is so good, you don't want to get rid of it.

• 15:52Speaker 04

  I have so many of those.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Totally. Well, they make, they're so good. And they make great drawer organizers. You just take those little inserts out, put them in the drawers. They're amazing. They'll last forever. So just knowing that you have this option to shop from within your own home is really powerful. And it's really important to take the time to create systems that work for you and how you really think.

• 16:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's not a one size fits all. This is, this is up to you and how you want to do it. So make it fun, make it fun where you can. What about decluttering tips for small spaces? Or maybe storage ideas for small spaces?

• 16:24Speaker 02

  So the smaller your space, the more intentional you have to be. You might want to really lean in and have like, oh, I want to keep this and this and this. But if you're in a small space, you have to have those, those three questions that I asked you really dialed in. What are the three to five activities you want to do in the space? How do you want it to look and how do you want to feel? You need to live from that like it's your Bible. Like, nothing exists in that space that isn't in alignment with those values. Because you just don't have the space for it. And it's really vital that we say, this is my intention and I'm moving forward. So when it comes to those spaces, you want to, yes, of course, like have things that are multifunctional. Maximize the vertical space of your home.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  You know, organize and hang things on walls and in closets. And really do as much dual functionality as you can. Also, see what you can get away with when it comes to multi-use items.

• 17:19Speaker 04

  Hmm, sure. That makes sense. So just really taking the time to be thoughtful about it. Maybe you have a couch that you'd really like to keep so that you don't have to buy a new couch. But if you have to walk diagonal in your studio apartment all the time, then it's not going to do you much good.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and you know, we live in this wonderful time where you don't have to buy things all the time. There's infinite options for how you can source things without spending a lot of money. So I'm not saying go and Spend a million dollars, but what I'm saying is get clear about what the right solution is. Stop living with the version that doesn't work for you. When you're in small spaces, you don't have the luxury of holding on to something because it's good enough, or it used to work. You've got to be very sharp and clear about how you're going to use those spaces and map them out, and then find the right things. It might take time, but that's really, really vital in small spaces.

• 18:05Speaker 04

  I want to touch a little bit on relief versus completion. When you're tackling big projects, or when you're just in the middle of it and you can't see your way through, can you talk to us a little bit about how to avoid overwhelm, some tips or strategies for staying on top of it and not losing the thread?

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Absolutely. You can say, "I'm not going to be in servitude to this clutter. I am choosing to take X amount of time to devote to clearing this clutter." So instead of saying, "I'm going to take as long as this clutter takes to get organized." Because the truth is, you could spend five hours on a pile of clutter, 20 minutes on a pile of clutter, or five days on a pile of clutter, and you get to determine how long. So you could say, "I'm willing to give this one hour," and in one hour, you just make it better. You don't have to get it completed, fully all the way done, because that's a moving target. You can just say, "I'm willing to give this an hour," and really give yourself that hour, and do the best that you can. Like, sometimes getting organized is not about this thorough, down-to-the-needle, you

• 19:02Speaker 02

  know, process. Sometimes it's just, "I just need to walk in this room." And so that might look like you just walking through with a garbage bag and grabbing everything that's trash that you can see with your eye, or the same with donations, or saying, "I only have an hour, but I need to walk in this room," and boxing things up and stacking it so that it gives you a breezeway, like a real walkway. And so you really have to notice, like, okay, what is it that I need from this process right now? What kind of resources am I able to devote to it? Because again, we have this idea that we're supposed to like, get it all done, and it's like, that's not always the case. And what if that's okay? What if this is you accomplishing something very big in small, manageable steps? What if that's enough? And I promise you it is, because it's not, the

• 19:45Speaker 02

  people who stay organized are not the ones who go and get the house renovation and do the whole thing in one weekend. That leads to backsliding oftentimes. It's the people who stay consistent and keep moving through a step at a time. Those are the people who really experience long-term organization. So just keep moving forward. That's the most important thing.

• 20:08Marielle Segarra?

  That was Starr Hansen, a professional organizer, also known as the clutter whisperer, in conversation with Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. There's one on how to clean when you don't feel like it, and another on how to prepare for a move. You can find those at npr.org/lifekit. And if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/lifekitnewsletter. Also, we love hearing from you, so if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email us at [email protected]. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan, and our digital editor is Malika Gribb. Megan Cain is our supervising

• 20:50Marielle Segarra?

  editor, and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Audrey Nguyen, Margaret Serino, and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Kwesi Lee. Special thanks to Aaron Donaldson. I'm Meryl Segarra. Thanks for listening.

• 21:35Speaker 03

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