Pod Insights Joe and James Fact Up Have The Inbetweeners Influenced Fashion? About this episode This week Joe Thomas and James Buckley get an update on the 'Tube Voice' Oswald Laurence, Joe's 'yeah's' are finally addressed and the boys discuss how The Inbetweeners influenced fashion...
Plus they'll 'fact check' whether the expression "Break a leg" actually comes from someone who famously had good luck after breaking their leg!
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Transcript 11,459 words · 8 speakers
0:00 Speaker 00 At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
0:32 Speaker 01 I'm Claire Buckley, and this Halloween on my podcast, Pretty Scary, we are going to cover the stories that keep you up at night. Real crimes, ghosts and aliens. Plus, the scariest movies to watch this spooky season with the lights off. So, as the nights draw in, the pumpkins are carved, and somewhere in the dark, something is scratching at the window. It's probably just the cat, right? Get the candles lit in search for Pretty Scary with Claire Buckley.
1:10 Speaker 02 Jo, just before we get started.
1:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:13 Speaker 02 I think that we've quickly gained a reputation to waffle of it. Because now, the production team have brought in a great big massive counter of a great big massive clock to tell us how long we've been talking for. It's giant as well.
1:27 Speaker 03 I know. It's massive. I do feel a little bit like they want us to think about the amount of time we're using.
1:35 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
1:35 Speaker 03 That's okay.
1:36 Speaker 04 Sure and time you're wasting.
1:37 Speaker 03 Sure and time wasting, yeah.
1:38 Speaker 02 Shall I do the intro then?
1:40 Speaker 03 You do the intro. Let's go.
1:41 Speaker 02 Let's not have any fun. Joe and James? Ah, Joe and James. Joe and James. Fact up again. Joe and James, Joe and James, Joe and James. Joe and James, fact up. Welcome to Joe and James Fact Up. Each week, we'll be bringing one another a fact that we deem interesting. And our policy is, the more interesting, the more true it is. That's it. We'll also dig into the weird things that you You'd like to think are true, but you can't be bothered to research yourself. In a segment we're calling Fact Check, which I believe, Lily May, we definitely do need to find from the comments.
2:20 Speaker 04 Is that where we're at?
2:21 Speaker 02 We need to give, I think people are feeling unfulfilled if they don't actually know. Unfilled? Unfilled?
2:29 Speaker 03 Unfilled, yeah.
2:30 Speaker 04 It's a bit from Peepshow.
2:31 Speaker 02 Anti-filled.
2:34 Speaker 02 If we don't actually give them the, whether it is a fact or not.
2:37 Speaker 04 Yeah.
2:37 Speaker 02 So if you do want to send a fact to us, or anything, basically, any correspondence you want to get to us, our email is hello at joeandjamespod.com. Our WhatsApp number is 07822034330. And you can follow us on our socials, at joeandjamespod. And you can watch our full episodes on YouTube. Just search for Joe and James Fact Up and they come up, they come out the same day that the, the episodes come out on whatever app you like to listen to your podcasts to. And if you have forgotten those details already, which I have, all that information's in the description. Now, let's get fact up.
3:21 Speaker 02 Okay, Joe, I've got, I do have correspondence here.
3:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
3:26 Speaker 02 You guys have been sending in some Fact Up messages. We've got one through WhatsApp, is that right?
3:33 Speaker 04 Yep, it's from Dom.
3:34 Speaker 02 It's from Dom. He says, enjoying the show. Further to your discussion about the Mind the Gap announcement at Embankment Station. That's like episode one, wasn't it?
3:44 Speaker 03 We've lit a fire there.
3:45 Speaker 02 Like, people are interested in this, in the Mind the Gap stuff.
3:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
3:49 Speaker 02 I worked for London Underground for over 15 years. Well, you say worked, you're probably on strike for about.
3:55 Speaker 03 Ooh.
3:57 Speaker 02 No, no, I worked.
4:00 Speaker 03 All in, all in jest.
4:01 Speaker 02 Power to the people.
4:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:04 Speaker 02 Comrade, I worked for the London Underground over 15 years and worked with the guy who did that.
4:12 Speaker 02 Brilliant.
4:12 Speaker 03 This is.
4:13 Speaker 02 Oh, hang on a minute. His name is Alan Budgeon. One of the nicest blokes you could ever meet, now retired. After over forty years with the London, London, uh, sorry.
4:22 Speaker 03 I don't want to pick you up on this.
4:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
4:24 Speaker 03 James, but it, it, it is, it does say thirty.
4:26 Speaker 02 I know.
4:27 Speaker 03 And it's not the word.
4:27 Speaker 02 Just give me a second.
4:29 Speaker 04 What's gone on there?
4:30 Speaker 03 It's the digits.
4:31 Speaker 02 Yes. His name, his name is Alan Budgeon. One of the nicest blokes you could ever meet, now retired after over thirty years with the London Underground. Uh, on hearing the background story, he went back into the archives. Or archives? No, archives, definitely archives.
4:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:48 Speaker 02 And was the person responsible for ensuring the announcement was reinstating. Was, that's not my fault.
4:56 Speaker 03 That's not your fault.
4:56 Speaker 04 That is Dom's fault. That's, that's correct, that.
4:59 Speaker 02 He was, uh, he went back into the archives and was the person responsible for ensuring the announcement was reinstated for the widow. He never gets credit for doing such an amazing thing. Give him a shout out on your next podcast. Well, I've already done it. He'd also love to, James, to give him a train wanker. Well, Alan Budgeon, you are the biggest train wanker and congratulations.
5:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, and that, that's seriously, that is a cool thing to do.
5:27 Speaker 02 Yeah.
5:27 Speaker 03 And, uh, he was the actual guy who did that. Went into the archives, dug out the recording. That's a, that's a, that's a really nice thing to do.
5:36 Speaker 02 Let's get it all over the London Underground though.
5:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
5:39 Speaker 02 I think it should be.
5:40 Speaker 03 And also Dom is from Chelmsford.
5:42 Speaker 02 Hmm.
5:43 Speaker 03 Where I'm from.
5:45 Speaker 02 That's right.
5:45 Speaker 03 Yeah. Which, um, again, so what a, what a great message. Well, every part of that's good.
5:53 Speaker 02 Lovely stuff.
5:54 Speaker 03 Lovely stuff. I tell you what, and even in this day and age, so nice.
5:57 Speaker 02 The words have shaken Steve. Uh, we've got a little bit of extra on this. The Fact Up team contacted TFL about restoring Oswald Lawrence's voice on All Lines. And they said that they had been following our discussion.
6:12 Speaker 02 Noisy. However.
6:15 Speaker 02 We have a quote here.
6:17 Speaker 03 This is a brilliant quote.
6:18 Speaker 02 Yeah. We have no plans to reinstate the old TFL voice, but we're always open to exploring ideas.
6:24 Speaker 03 Right.
6:24 Speaker 04 Wouldn't that open?
6:25 Speaker 03 Ideas about what?
6:27 Speaker 02 That is, that is called a rejection.
6:31 Speaker 02 Thank you. Thank you for contacting us.
6:33 Speaker 03 You know, thanks for getting in touch. You know what? That's, uh, that's all you can ask, really.
6:38 Speaker 02 Hmm.
6:39 Speaker 04 Cut to the listeners.
6:40 Speaker 02 I've got another.
6:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, we've got the listeners. Keep listening.
6:43 Speaker 02 I've got another message here. Do you want me to read it for you, Joe?
6:45 Speaker 03 Yes, please.
6:46 Speaker 02 Uh, hello, Joe and James. Loving the podcast. But as I've been making my way through previous episodes, I've noticed Joe likes to use the word yeah quite a lot.
6:55 Speaker 03 Hmm.
6:57 Speaker 02 Good. As I'm a sad, I thought I was gonna catch it.
7:00 Speaker 03 Yeah, no.
7:00 Speaker 02 As I'm a sado and had some spare time on my hands, I decided to do a yeah count while listening to the Battle of Hastings episode. I can confirm that Joe said yeah or yes. Well. A total of three hundred and forty-four and a half times. Where's the half come from?
7:22 Speaker 03 I don't know. That's fucking horrendous.
7:25 Speaker 02 For balance, James said yeah, yes, a total of eighty-nine times. Cheers. And we'll definitely be giving a five star review regarding.
7:33 Speaker 03 Well, it doesn't sound like you should.
7:35 Speaker 02 Well, no, that's, don't.
7:36 Speaker 03 Well, no, okay. So, do, thanks.
7:37 Speaker 02 If you do, if you did wanna give us a five star review, that would be really appreciated.
7:41 Speaker 03 Well, I have to say, that is embarrassing.
7:43 Speaker 02 Thank you for your message, Emma.
7:44 Speaker 03 Yes, thank you, Emma. And, uh, I will take this as a wake up call and.
7:50 Speaker 02 You can't start replacing yeah with uh, though.
7:54 Speaker 03 I just need to, you know what I think it is?
7:56 Speaker 02 Go on.
7:58 Speaker 03 There was a time where podcasts were just audio. And I think you're then aware that you're in an audio space.
8:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
8:06 Speaker 03 In a darkness, if you will.
8:07 Speaker 02 Same with radio.
8:08 Speaker 03 And you think about audio in a much more focused way.
8:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
8:12 Speaker 03 Now that we're in a room together. I'm in a multi-sensory social space and it becomes necessary as a human animal, if you like, me to do the signals that show that I'm listening.
8:24 Speaker 02 Yeah.
8:24 Speaker 03 Which includes saying yeah. But what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give the instruction to what I like to call my brain, which is a sort of organism that I have a kind of
8:33 Speaker 02 Joe's brain.
8:34 Speaker 03 On off relationship with.
8:35 Speaker 02 Yeah.
8:36 Speaker 03 And I'm gonna say, could you think about this and try and put it into practice? And we'll see what happens.
8:41 Speaker 02 Thing is, Joe.
8:41 Speaker 03 So it's out of my hands.
8:42 Speaker 02 Right.
8:43 Speaker 03 But maybe the brain will do it.
8:44 Speaker 02 Maybe the brain will keep in at some point.
8:45 Speaker 03 And actually, it's a horrifying count.
8:48 Speaker 02 I'm gonna be honest, Joe.
8:49 Speaker 03 I'm gonna try and cut down.
8:50 Speaker 02 I think if people, if, cause I feel like all of what you just said then could have been expressed in a, in a yeah.
8:58 Speaker 03 Yeah. So be careful. Be careful what you wish for.
9:02 Speaker 02 So you either want Joe to say yeah, or he'll start talking about the brain.
9:06 Speaker 03 Yeah. And imagine that. Imagine what I just said, three hundred and forty-four and a half times.
9:10 Speaker 02 Yeah. Um, but thank you, Emma.
9:12 Speaker 03 They're all fucking yeah.
9:13 Speaker 02 We are listening to, to your, um, to your messages and, and the criticism.
9:20 Speaker 03 Yeah.
9:20 Speaker 02 And we do agree with it.
9:23 Speaker 02 We're with you. We're like, we're, like, it's difficult to argue. It's difficult to get angry over because it's like.
9:29 Speaker 03 It's completely fair.
9:30 Speaker 02 Because you just go, yeah, you're absolutely right.
9:31 Speaker 03 The message about the trainer, the one that I liked, was, was, was extremely reasonable. It said, could Joe get some new trainers or at least clean the ones he's got?
9:39 Speaker 02 Well, we'd be pleased to know that, um, Joe's partner went out and got, got him some trainers.
9:45 Speaker 03 Brought them home.
9:45 Speaker 02 Yes. And we were discussing.
9:47 Speaker 03 Told me, told me they were too garish and that she wanted to take them back. And I said, no, let me wear them.
9:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
9:55 Speaker 03 And now I'm wearing them. They just.
9:56 Speaker 02 You're allowed more than one pair of trainers, eh?
10:00 Speaker 03 Yeah. And I think we're gonna maybe get another pair.
10:01 Speaker 02 Wow.
10:02 Speaker 04 Wow.
10:02 Speaker 03 Now I.
10:03 Speaker 02 That's a big commitment.
10:04 Speaker 03 I am now worried.
10:05 Speaker 02 Are you and Hannah ready for that?
10:08 Speaker 04 Big responsibility.
10:10 Speaker 03 Well, it's taken about eighteen months to work up to getting this pair.
10:12 Speaker 02 Right.
10:13 Speaker 03 So it's not gonna.
10:15 Speaker 02 But we were just.
10:16 Speaker 03 We'll give ourselves a break. We're gonna give ourselves a break.
10:18 Speaker 02 Give yourselves a little break.
10:19 Speaker 03 And then maybe, you know.
10:21 Speaker 02 For the next pair of trainers, tell them.
10:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, exactly.
10:22 Speaker 02 But we were, we were discussing your trainers just before we started, uh, talking. And they're fine trainers. There's nothing wrong with them. There's nothing offensive about those trainers. If anyone comments about those trainers.
10:34 Speaker 02 They're mad, as far as I'm concerned. But for me personally, they're a bit too nothing. We were talking about, like, when you get an acting job.
10:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:46 Speaker 02 And you need just some generic trainers for your character. You were literally going, these are just Simon's trainers now.
10:51 Speaker 03 I know. Yeah, I know.
10:53 Speaker 02 Simon from the Inbetweeners.
10:54 Speaker 03 They look like costume, don't they? They look like someone's plopped them on somebody before they've gone on the one show or something.
11:00 Speaker 02 There are a brand.
11:00 Speaker 03 They're brand new.
11:01 Speaker 02 They're a brand that I've not heard of, but they look quite, like, just generic.
11:05 Speaker 03 Well, I should say, I really, this is Axel Aragato. I really like this brand. I, I wa- I think maybe they're just a bit too clean. And I have to say, I am.
11:14 Speaker 02 That's not the problem, Joe.
11:15 Speaker 03 I am slightly put in mind of the Inbetweeners episode where Simon puts on the brand new trainers and then tries to go to the nightclub.
11:21 Speaker 02 Right.
11:22 Speaker 03 And it's just a bit like, whoa.
11:24 Speaker 02 No, don't.
11:26 Speaker 03 Clean trainers always look bigger as well. I'm gonna put that your way. You on board with that? We're not, I know we're not doing the facts yet.
11:33 Speaker 02 No.
11:33 Speaker 03 But it's a fact check. It's a fact check. Clean trainers look bigger.
11:38 Speaker 02 Yeah.
11:38 Speaker 04 Let me just search that up.
11:40 Speaker 03 Just search for that, we'll get to that.
11:41 Speaker 02 I remember, um, I remember when I, when we first started in the Inbetweeners, I was given some really sort of like Poundland trainers to wear, right?
11:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
11:54 Speaker 02 And Ian, and, and the costume designer was like, Jay needs to wear white trainers in this scene. And I'm like, right, okay.
12:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
12:02 Speaker 02 Honestly, went to sort of Asda or something to get the trainers.
12:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
12:05 Speaker 02 And Ian and Damon, the creators of the Inbetweeners, were like, no, you can't.
12:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
12:09 Speaker 02 You get, you do get beaten up at school.
12:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, no, it's, yeah, completely. And, and, and Jay would be wearing something that he would, that would be playground proofed, if you know what I mean.
12:20 Speaker 02 But I was allowed to, um,
12:23 Speaker 02 I was allowed to not have to wear shoes for the school scenes.
12:27 Speaker 03 What did you? Oh, I thought you meant at school. Okay, for the school scenes. Oh, yeah, you wore kind of, um,
12:31 Speaker 02 I wore really black trainers or something, didn't you? I wore plain black, fairly similar to the trainers I'm wearing right now, but they're Adidas. But I wore plain black Reebok classics.
12:40 Speaker 03 Because it's perhaps what Jay would have done.
12:41 Speaker 02 And then also, um, a thing that people have really sort of picked up on, on Jay, something that's synonymous with Jay is his Air Max 95s.
12:52 Speaker 03 Oh.
12:53 Speaker 02 People always, uh, and especially now, I think they've sort of come around. I think they've really in Air Max 95s. Kids love an Air Max 95. I think they call them one tens. Uh, which I, which I'm, I'm sort of a bit too old to call them one tens. I think. I think it's slang because they cost a hundred and ten pounds. Or I, I, I think that's what, what it is. Um, I call them Air Max ninety fives. They're always Air Max ninety fives. I was around when they first came out. I had mates when they first came out in the mid nineties, uh, and then, um.
13:24 Speaker 03 They're basketball shoes.
13:26 Speaker 02 They, no, they're just Nike Air Max. They've got the big, they've got the big bubbles on the bottom of them. And I, my mate was wearing them. He was around my flat and it was between the first and second series of the Inbetweeners, I think it was.
13:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:37 Speaker 02 And I was looking at them and I was going, they're fucking ridiculous. Those shoes are so stupid. There's air bubbles going like.
13:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:45 Speaker 02 All the way through the sole.
13:46 Speaker 03 Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. Like, why do you need those? Again, I think it's interesting with, with men's fashion. So I, I think that men's fashion is all basically designed to imply that the man has recently been doing a masculine activity. So you've got work, work wear, so boots, jeans even.
14:04 Speaker 02 Still toe caps.
14:05 Speaker 03 Yeah, still toe caps.
14:07 Speaker 02 That sort of thing. Even if you're, even if you're just like, uh, uh, an art student in Hoxton.
14:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, exactly.
14:14 Speaker 02 They'll wear still toe caps.
14:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, or, or the, the whole, the whole hipster look is basically to imply that you've recently been doing some like lumber jacket or something. Even though you're just making a fucking coffee.
14:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
14:25 Speaker 03 Which I think is disgusting.
14:28 Speaker 03 If you're wearing a coffee, you should be wearing a fucking apron. You should, if you're, if you're making coffee, you should be forced to wear Y fronts and a little penny.
14:36 Speaker 03 That's all you need. That's what I wear.
14:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely.
14:38 Speaker 03 Don't be like, oh, I'm a, I'm working, I'm a, you know, I'm a real man.
14:42 Speaker 02 Yeah.
14:43 Speaker 03 So that annoys me.
14:44 Speaker 02 But I saw.
14:44 Speaker 03 But anyway, but.
14:45 Speaker 02 I saw those Air Max ninety fives and I thought they look really silly. I, I feel like it's the type of thing that Jay would wear. And then, and then that became Jay's sort of uniform in a sense. And, uh, and a lot of people nowadays do, they love Air ninety fives. Kids these days absolutely love them.
15:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:05 Speaker 02 And I, and I've sort of come around to being like, oh, actually that is cool.
15:08 Speaker 03 It's because of you.
15:09 Speaker 02 There's a picture of us. In costume.
15:13 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:14 Speaker 02 Uh, by the, what's that, the Sydney Opera House, that was the thing I was trying to think of just then.
15:20 Speaker 03 Like, what's that, what's that tortoise thing?
15:21 Speaker 02 What's that building? Uh, there's a picture of us by the Sydney Opera House, uh, and I've got like a retro, I've got the retro, I think it's the nineties, nineteen ninety away England jersey on or something like that, some, some shorts, white socks, Air Max ninety fives.
15:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:37 Speaker 02 You're wearing something, Blake's wearing something. And people are now, I've seen comments, people have used this picture as like a sort of meme. And they've been like, they were ahead of their time. Like, this is just how, this is now the cool, apparently it's the cool way to dress now. I disagree.
15:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, I wouldn't say Simon was.
15:55 Speaker 02 I like wearing hairy.
15:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, nice little, nice little hairy cardigan. I wouldn't say that we were, I mean, Simon, I would say was badly dressed.
16:04 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:04 Speaker 03 But I, what was embarrassing is that I thought he was quite well dressed. And one of the reasons I was disappointed when the second series was commissioned was that they told me that I could keep the jeans that Simon was wearing.
16:16 Speaker 02 Right.
16:16 Speaker 03 And I was like, I'll tell you what, French Connection.
16:19 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:19 Speaker 03 Don't mind if I do.
16:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely.
16:21 Speaker 03 And, um, uh, then they said, well, you can't have them back.
16:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, we need them back now.
16:26 Speaker 03 But it is funny with jeans, but I, but I did, I, I.
16:28 Speaker 02 Simon's wardrobe was very top shop.
16:30 Speaker 03 It is top shop.
16:31 Speaker 02 It was, it was top man.
16:32 Speaker 03 Top man, yeah.
16:33 Speaker 02 It was, you know, early, uh, early two thousands, top man.
16:36 Speaker 03 It's, it's high street kind of, he's a sort of high street fashion victim.
16:42 Speaker 02 I feel, I feel like it was that, it was just as that, what do they call it these days? Like throwaway fashion, those sort of like really cheap. Fast fashion. Fast fashion, yeah.
16:51 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:51 Speaker 02 That was.
16:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:52 Speaker 02 That was ju- sort of just as the, the time and that was kicking off.
16:55 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:56 Speaker 02 Where you could just go to Top Man.
16:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:58 Speaker 02 And get jeans, T-shirt and some, um.
17:03 Speaker 02 Uh, Casio watch.
17:04 Speaker 03 I think it's a, I think it's a, um, a, uh, uh, what am I saying? I think it's a.
17:12 Speaker 02 Don't say yeah.
17:14 Speaker 03 I'm not gonna say yeah.
17:14 Speaker 02 For the love of God.
17:15 Speaker 03 Um, I think it's a, I think it's a furrow that's ploughed also by the character of Curtain in this country. Where he's like, he's gone down to.
17:24 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:25 Speaker 03 You know, Primark and he's got a load of brands.
17:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:28 Speaker 04 TK Maxx's curtains.
17:29 Speaker 03 Yes, Curtain, yeah.
17:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, yes.
17:31 Speaker 03 I really like that.
17:32 Speaker 02 That's sort of all the stuff they didn't sell last season.
17:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:35 Speaker 04 But it does say Calvin Klein on it.
17:36 Speaker 03 And, and it's like ninety pounds reduced to fifteen pounds, you know, yeah.
17:41 Speaker 02 I like the bit.
17:42 Speaker 03 My parents were quite hot on that at sort of Christmas time. There was a lot, a lot of funny stuff coming in. You're like, oh, okay, yeah.
17:48 Speaker 02 Fashion outlets.
17:49 Speaker 03 In, in yellow, are we? Okay.
17:51 Speaker 02 They are weird, those fashion outlets, because you'd be like, oh, I'll get a, oh, God, they've got a pair of Adidas Gazelles here for like twenty five pounds. And then you look at them, they go, and you're like, they look a bit off.
18:04 Speaker 04 It's because they're to your left feet.
18:05 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, well, like, what's, what's happened?
18:08 Speaker 03 Uh, the lines like me.
18:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, they look a bit, what's going on here?
18:11 Speaker 03 Uh huh, yeah. But I do think it's, uh, the, the, there is a.
18:16 Speaker 02 We were trendsetters, man.
18:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:18 Speaker 02 It's sick, isn't it? The in-betweeners fashion is coming back. We've, I think we're coming out of nineties. We're just sort of coming, coming out of nineties.
18:25 Speaker 03 We're coming into noughties.
18:26 Speaker 02 And now we're gonna be noughties again.
18:27 Speaker 03 Noughties. Well, it's like all those, like, photos on old phones, or old cameras, like old camera style photos. So you know, the photo you take in about two thousand and one or something, that, that look, the kind of photo you get on like an album.
18:40 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:40 Speaker 03 Do you remember that one? It was like, when, when you were in indie band in about, like, I don't know, nineteen ninety nine? All you needed to do for your album sleeve was take like the six shittest photographs you've ever seen in your life and be like, there goes real.
18:52 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, man.
18:53 Speaker 03 And you'd be like, well, yeah, but that's just, that's just fucking shit.
18:56 Speaker 02 Just, just a long exposure.
18:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:59 Speaker 02 Photograph of a motorway.
19:01 Speaker 03 Uh, yeah, I know.
19:02 Speaker 02 And all the, all the lights are streaming across the. It's great. It is good. Is this a good chat?
19:08 Speaker 04 Yeah, I'm I'm thoroughly.
19:10 Speaker 03 Now, so am I right about jeans? Because I've I'm now thinking that maybe that isn't. Were jeans originally for people who were in in prisons? Is that what jeans are for? I don't.
19:20 Speaker 02 I'm gonna assume.
19:22 Speaker 03 Or is it?
19:22 Speaker 02 And I don't know whether we want to dedicate a whole episode to this chat.
19:25 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
19:26 Speaker 02 And I'm gonna assume it's got something to do with cowboys and.
19:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, might be, yeah.
19:29 Speaker 02 And riding horses and things like that.
19:32 Speaker 04 Yeah, I'm hearing labourers, miners and cowboys are why they're invented. Because of how stress proof the.
19:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
19:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, they were just durable.
19:41 Speaker 03 But I think it's it's interesting that there isn't, it's quite. It feels like quite a narrow section that is male fashion that does not imply some other activity. Because I do think you've got you've got work, like physical work. Sport, obviously. Like, many people who are in sportswear haven't played sport for like five years.
20:04 Speaker 02 They'll still stick a tracksuit on.
20:05 Speaker 03 Yeah, and I do genuinely think like military. Like, that's another one, isn't it? It's like the implication is, oh, you've just caught me. I've just I've just come back from the front.
20:15 Speaker 02 Yeah.
20:15 Speaker 03 And actually, the section in which, and you know, you you know, you were being, you know, mildly critical of your colleague, but but, you know, at least it's it is what it is.
20:23 Speaker 02 It is what it is. But no, yeah, men's fashion is.
20:25 Speaker 03 Clothes for you.
20:26 Speaker 02 Men's men's fashion is just trying to project a whole thing of what we're not.
20:29 Speaker 03 What we're not, I know.
20:30 Speaker 02 I'm not a soldier. I'm not. I don't.
20:32 Speaker 03 I don't work with my hands.
20:33 Speaker 02 My hands, but I still wear jeans.
20:35 Speaker 03 I'm not a professional sportsman. Yeah, but yeah.
20:37 Speaker 02 I still wear jeans, still wear. I wear jogging bottoms all the time at home. When was the last time I went for a fucking jog?
20:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, no, they're just so bloody comfortable. And I'll tell you what. The pandemic, that was a.
20:48 Speaker 02 Yeah.
20:49 Speaker 03 That that that sounded the death knell for many, a pair of trousers. For me.
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22:51 Speaker 02 Can I hit you with my fact, I suppose? Once again, it's an inevitable sort of panic.
22:58 Speaker 02 Because I'm so needy, Joe. I'm just sort of desperate to to please you. Um, but we were talking about.
23:04 Speaker 03 I don't know why that is because.
23:07 Speaker 02 I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't matter at the end of the day, does it?
23:10 Speaker 03 Really, I'm not.
23:11 Speaker 02 I do care about it.
23:11 Speaker 03 Somebody that it will benefit you to impress. There's nothing I can do.
23:16 Speaker 02 I'm not getting anything from you, am I?
23:17 Speaker 03 I don't have access to like the honours list or whatever, if that's what you're after.
23:22 Speaker 02 No, you're not part of the academy.
23:23 Speaker 03 I'm not, no.
23:25 Speaker 02 We talked about gestures.
23:26 Speaker 03 Can't get you backstage.
23:27 Speaker 02 We were talking, we were talking about gestures, weren't we? And the tapping of the nose.
23:30 Speaker 03 Yes, we were.
23:31 Speaker 02 Um, and uh, from a couple of episodes ago. So we thought today we could look into gestures.
23:37 Speaker 03 Tell you what.
23:38 Speaker 02 For our theme.
23:39 Speaker 03 Fucking can of worms, mate.
23:40 Speaker 02 Here we go. So I've got a little one for you. Um, and I was thinking about the peace sign.
23:49 Speaker 02 That classic, two fingers up, peace, peace and love.
23:51 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:52 Speaker 02 Uh, and I, I, I did a little bit, I did the quickest amount of research anyone's ever done about anything. Into, here you go, Joe. In ancient Rome, raising the index and middle fingers together, a gesture similar to today's peace or V for victory sign, wasn't peaceful at all. It was a warding gesture against the evil eye. Romans believed that certain looks or curses could bring misfortune. And this hand sign was used as a kind of spiritual shield. So you'd be like, well, get away from me.
24:24 Speaker 03 Ah, so they.
24:25 Speaker 02 But I, I, I would still say, like, I, I'm looking for peace. I don't need any.
24:32 Speaker 03 I think it's related.
24:33 Speaker 02 Yeah.
24:34 Speaker 03 Yeah. And I'm interested in this evil eye as well. What was that?
24:37 Speaker 02 People are obsessed, loads of cultures are obsessed with the evil eye. We might talk about that a bit more.
24:41 Speaker 03 Well, I suppose it's the old, if looks could kill.
24:43 Speaker 02 I know. I remember when I went to Turkey once when I was a kid, um, on holiday, they had loads of those little blue.
24:51 Speaker 02 Sort of ceramic things and they had like mini ones that you could wear around your neck and then there was ones that you could display in your house.
24:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
24:57 Speaker 02 Apparently it was the evil eye, it was to keep evil.
24:59 Speaker 03 Oh, I see.
25:00 Speaker 02 Again, again, I need to look into that.
25:02 Speaker 03 Um, I am, do you wanna know a, a, quite a cute thing that happened um to me recently is that we um think we've got a mouse again, the, there's always a fucking mouse coming back and um we have had a, we've got a pumpkin for.
25:22 Speaker 02 Sure.
25:23 Speaker 03 Um, and it was inside, but we thought, cause we're now trying not to leave food out.
25:27 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:28 Speaker 03 We thought the pumpkin could be food, so we put it outside.
25:31 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:31 Speaker 03 Um, but my daughter thought that we'd put the pumpkin outside to scare the mouse away.
25:38 Speaker 02 Oh.
25:39 Speaker 03 That's really sweet.
25:40 Speaker 02 That is really nice.
25:41 Speaker 03 That is quite sweet.
25:42 Speaker 02 And I bet it worked.
25:43 Speaker 03 I tell you what.
25:43 Speaker 02 I bet the mouse was gonna come back in and went, fuck that, have you seen what's outside there?
25:46 Speaker 03 And I'll tell you what works with, with mice, um, don't know if you've heard of it, nothing.
25:51 Speaker 02 Well, we had a little.
25:53 Speaker 03 No, for Hannah's benefit, I, I sincerely believe that the mouse is never coming back and it's definitely only one mouse.
25:58 Speaker 02 When I uh, but they're everywhere mice, aren't they, like, to begin with?
26:02 Speaker 03 Isn't their shit really toxic?
26:04 Speaker 02 I think, I think, I think so, yeah, they're mouse droppings and stuff.
26:08 Speaker 03 I thought we'd got rid of them.
26:09 Speaker 02 We had a little.
26:09 Speaker 03 It's just been raining and they come in to get out of the rain.
26:11 Speaker 02 We had a little mouse problem, um.
26:13 Speaker 03 I wanna get cat, sorry.
26:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, no, that's always a good thing to do.
26:16 Speaker 03 That's the only thing that works?
26:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, that is a good thing to do. We had a mouse problem um when I was a kid in Dagenham. And our neighbour, our next door neighbour, and he was a chef. We were saying to him, oh, we've, we think we've got a mouse in the house. There we go. And uh, and um, he was like, obviously he's in the restaurant business, he was like, I know how to get rid of them, this is absolutely brilliant.
26:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:40 Speaker 02 This is the best way, you'll get rid of it, no problem at all whatsoever. And he gave us um, cause, cause we were using mousetraps, but they, they sort of were managing to evade these mousetraps.
26:52 Speaker 03 They're clever little motherfuckers.
26:53 Speaker 02 Um, and he said, I've got something, they can't resist it, you will catch the mouse guaranteed. And it was a strip of um this really, really strong adhesive glue.
27:05 Speaker 03 Right.
27:06 Speaker 02 And it smelled of peanut butter.
27:08 Speaker 03 Okay.
27:09 Speaker 02 And.
27:09 Speaker 03 Apparently they do like peanut butter.
27:11 Speaker 02 Yeah, and so.
27:14 Speaker 02 The problem was, right, was that with your mousetrap, you put a bit of cheese on a, on a very delicate mechanism and it snaps them, it kills them, right, snaps their neck and they're dead.
27:24 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:25 Speaker 02 This thing, it was so fucking traumatizing, we, we, in bed one night could hear screaming. This mouse was just fucking all stuck on this thing, still alive. And I, and then it was like, well, now what the fuck do we do with it?
27:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's horrible.
27:45 Speaker 02 And do you know what? I haven't thought about that until now and I s- I don't know what happened to it. I never asked. I never asked. It was like, go back, go back to bed.
27:57 Speaker 03 Oh, this was your, oh, this was your parents' house, so it was not your responsibility.
28:01 Speaker 02 No, no, it was when I was a kid.
28:02 Speaker 03 Oh, no.
28:03 Speaker 02 And I don't know.
28:05 Speaker 03 This is a terrible thing to say, but honestly, to a certain extent, I just think, who gives a shit?
28:13 Speaker 02 That is the problem. They do shit all over the place.
28:14 Speaker 03 Well, they do, but I know.
28:16 Speaker 02 If they didn't shit so much, if they went out to have a shit and then came in and that, and you know, if, if one of the kids fucking let a biscuit roll under the couch or something and they get rid of it for me, then absolutely fine. Don't have a problem with it. Um, I've got more about my fact, Joe.
28:32 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
28:33 Speaker 02 Now, obviously, um, that sign, don't hex me.
28:38 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:38 Speaker 02 Um, that's what it says here. Uh, for me, that sign and for most people our age, Joe, obviously means girl power.
28:45 Speaker 03 Absolutely.
28:46 Speaker 02 But there is, um, I then wanted to know about the, the flipping that. Of the origin of where the sort of that classic British sort of piss off.
28:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:57 Speaker 02 Well, what we got Jarvis Cocker doing over there?
28:59 Speaker 03 There he is.
28:59 Speaker 02 Um, and I wanted to find out what, where that came from.
29:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
29:03 Speaker 02 Um, so the V sign with palm facing inward, I've got the popular myth.
29:10 Speaker 02 But then the more sort of boring what actually it might be.
29:13 Speaker 03 That's alright.
29:14 Speaker 02 Um, the popular myth is that it originated with English longbowmen at the Battle of Agincourt, fourteen fifteen.
29:22 Speaker 03 Uh, I do wish this was true because I feel like we're quite into our battles, aren't we?
29:27 Speaker 02 I love that. I love Agincourt. Yeah, it's great. Um, was that with, um, the Black Prince?
29:32 Speaker 03 It's once more into the breach, dear friends.
29:34 Speaker 02 Right, yeah.
29:35 Speaker 03 Uh, this septuagol, this band of brothers, et cetera.
29:38 Speaker 02 Um, according to the story.
29:39 Speaker 03 It's never been misused either by any sort of, like, that's the good thing about all that Henry the Fifth stuff. You know, like, anyone who's quoting that is definitely sound.
29:48 Speaker 02 Yeah, sure.
29:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
29:49 Speaker 02 According to the story, French captors threatened to cut off the bow-drawing fingers of any captured English archers because they were like, they were, the English archers were fucking them up, man.
30:03 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
30:04 Speaker 02 And they, they, they did that. Was it Agincourt where they got them to, um, they sort of retreated? They sort of feigned a retreat and got all their, uh, all the horse, um, the cavalry. They all got bogged in.
30:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:19 Speaker 02 Like, it was so boggy. So all it was, was us, English bowmen, bosh, just, just taking them out. They couldn't go anywhere. Fucking one nil. They were threatened to cut off the, um, bow-drawing fingers of any captured English archers so they couldn't shoot again. Again, after winning, the English supposedly taunted the French by raising those fingers in defiance, going, "Look, we've still got them. We've still got them."
30:44 Speaker 03 That was true because that's brilliant.
30:47 Speaker 02 Unfortunately, there's no historical evidence for it.
30:49 Speaker 03 Who cares?
30:50 Speaker 04 It can be a fact-up fact.
30:52 Speaker 02 The story only appears in print centuries later, likely a piece of romantic Victorian nationalism. It is a shame. Um, here's a more plausible.
31:02 Speaker 03 Brilliant. Call it for this.
31:04 Speaker 02 The inward V.
31:05 Speaker 03 We don't really know. There's a debate.
31:07 Speaker 02 The inward V sign seems to have developed in Britain in the nineteenth or early twentieth century as a rude gesture akin to the middle finger.
31:15 Speaker 03 Okay.
31:15 Speaker 02 Um, its first clear documented use.
31:19 Speaker 02 Is in photographs and film from World War Two, where British soldiers used to mock the enemy. In contrast to the V for victory sign, which was palm out. So it was like, but there's, there's like a famous, um, Churchill.
31:32 Speaker 03 Oh, Napoleon, Winston Churchill.
31:35 Speaker 02 Yeah.
31:35 Speaker 03 Yeah, he's doing it that way, isn't he?
31:36 Speaker 02 He's doing it that way as well.
31:37 Speaker 03 And also that, the thing about that is that like, I feel like that's sort of just said when it emerged, but it hasn't really told me. Why they were mocking, like, why should that be mocking particularly?
31:47 Speaker 02 Well, it was sort of a, I guess it was a.
31:51 Speaker 02 It was sort of the anti V for victory, I suppose.
31:54 Speaker 03 Oh, I see, but, but, but wouldn't you be saying? So you almost, you're saying like, we have the victory.
32:00 Speaker 02 I think it's whatever.
32:01 Speaker 03 You're suffering from the victory.
32:02 Speaker 02 I think it's whatever your palm is facing gets, it is.
32:07 Speaker 03 You've won.
32:07 Speaker 02 No, it's lost.
32:09 Speaker 03 I agree with you of that.
32:10 Speaker 02 No, it was won.
32:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's like, it's like the difference between the defeat, the defeat, the defeat two.
32:15 Speaker 02 So much with that.
32:16 Speaker 03 But you know when a team goes like the, the recent defeat two or the recent defeat of?
32:20 Speaker 02 Right.
32:21 Speaker 03 I guess it's that, it's like, it, it's which way is that, um, which way is that greater than less sign facing?
32:27 Speaker 02 Right.
32:28 Speaker 03 I guess.
32:29 Speaker 02 But linguists and anthropologists think it may have evolved from an older fist based insults, like the fig gesture.
32:37 Speaker 03 Don't get me started on the fig gesture.
32:39 Speaker 02 Symbolically suggests a phallic or sexual insult, a non-verbal screw you. Is it that? Is that the fig gesture?
32:45 Speaker 03 See, that's a good one.
32:46 Speaker 02 Yeah.
32:47 Speaker 03 That's one that I wish we had more in the UK, cause that, that's good. And that's what that obviously means.
32:53 Speaker 02 Get it up, yeah.
32:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, I am, I am.
32:56 Speaker 02 I will be.
32:57 Speaker 03 Can I, can I just say, can I just say?
32:58 Speaker 02 Can I be honest, Joe, quickly, before you say anything, that if that, um, I, I could have gone to, I could have gone more controversial with my facts this week.
33:07 Speaker 03 It's.
33:07 Speaker 02 Because I was this close to like, and there's nothing funny about it, Joe, so don't start giggling, but I was this close to sort of, um, the Nazi salute.
33:17 Speaker 03 Fucking hell.
33:19 Speaker 02 And then I was just thinking, maybe don't touch it at all. But I was going to approach it in a very grown up way. And because a lot of people, um, claim, you know, like you get like.
33:31 Speaker 04 You are sort of doing it now then, aren't you?
33:33 Speaker 02 Sort of, yeah. You know, you know, like a lot of people claim like, you know, when Elon Musk just does a very casual Nazi salute.
33:40 Speaker 03 Just a casual.
33:40 Speaker 02 Yeah, just a sort of celebratory Nazi salute, right? And a lot of people go, no, no, no, actually, actually, uh, that is a very traditional Roman salute. From the Roman times, that the Nazis appropriated and it's like the Nazi symbol, right? Everyone always goes, oh, it's actually an ancient Hindu symbol. And you still have to go, well, uh, that's not the first thing I think of when I see that symbol. I'll be honest with you at this day and age.
34:08 Speaker 03 It's not really the cultural meaning that it.
34:10 Speaker 04 The cover is more famous than the original.
34:12 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
34:12 Speaker 02 But I don't, I don't think there is, I don't think that was a, um, Roman salute. I've also heard, no, that's actually not, it's got nothing to do with Romans at all whatsoever. Romans didn't salute like that. It's just people trying to sort of go, hey, he's not doing it, not doing the Nazi salute, he's doing the Roman salute, you idiot.
34:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
34:33 Speaker 02 And I thought, shall I dig into that and get once and for all our facts on whether it's a Nazi salute or a Roman salute? And then I just thought, you know what, leave it, don't even mention it in a podcast. Cause you'll end up giving Lily May a load of work.
34:47 Speaker 04 Yeah.
34:47 Speaker 02 With the edit. And so I decided not to bring it up.
34:50 Speaker 04 Which is nice of you to do, very, very, you know.
34:52 Speaker 02 That's why I didn't bring it up, Lily.
34:54 Speaker 04 And I wouldn't have to edit any of that out.
34:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, we can, yeah, there you go. No, well, I think.
34:58 Speaker 02 But if you want, and this does make it into the podcast, if you do want us to get to the bottom of, of the Nazi salute and where it actually came from and.
35:05 Speaker 04 They're gonna want you to do that.
35:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
35:07 Speaker 03 I'm more interested in getting to the bottom of the Hitler moustache.
35:11 Speaker 02 That's nuts, innit?
35:12 Speaker 03 What the fuck is it? What are we doing?
35:14 Speaker 04 We're gonna have to do a Hitler episode.
35:16 Speaker 02 That is insane. And we might have to do a big old Hitler episode.
35:19 Speaker 03 But it is like, like, it is a thing where, so George Orwell wrote about the, about the fascists.
35:25 Speaker 02 The toothbrush moustache.
35:26 Speaker 03 And he talked about goose stepping. And he said, when, when stormtroopers, or, and maybe they weren't necessarily called stormtroopers at that point, but he says, when you see fascists goose stepping, he says, it looks ridiculous. And what they're saying is, we dare you to say that this looks ridiculous. Cause if you say it, we'll kick the fucking shit out of you. And it's basically, it's a sort of taunt.
35:46 Speaker 02 Right.
35:47 Speaker 03 And I wonder whether maybe is the moustache in that area? Although I don't really know. Although apparently at the end of, at the end of the Second World War, Germany was full of blokes who had that moustache. And then, um, when it was obvious they were gonna lose, they were all shaving them off and like.
36:03 Speaker 02 They felt a bit silly.
36:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah. But, um, it was a real, um, it was a real sort of jumping on the bandwagon thing, the Nazi party. But you know, they were called the, they were called the, this is a good fact, actually. We could save it if you like.
36:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, no, chuck it in.
36:14 Speaker 03 Well, you know, they're called, they were, they were the NSDAP, the, the National Socialist, uh, Deutsche Arbeiter's Partei.
36:21 Speaker 02 Right.
36:21 Speaker 03 I think that's right. But Germans, the joke.
36:23 Speaker 02 Is that about freedom or something?
36:25 Speaker 03 NSDAP.
36:26 Speaker 02 Arbeit.
36:26 Speaker 03 Uh, work, National Socialist, uh, German Workers' Party.
36:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
36:31 Speaker 03 Um, but the joke when the Nazis were kind of on the up was that it actually stood for, na, such du auch ein Pechchen, which means, ah, do you also want a little job? So what it was is that people were joining the part, they were like, you're doing it because they're kind of, they're the coming force and you're jumping on the bandwagon.
36:47 Speaker 02 Right.
36:48 Speaker 03 And you kind of want a little bit, you wanna get free, you wanna freebie. And it reminds me of quite a lot of stuff that's happening in Polish journalism, where you think people are attaching themselves to a movement that they feel is on the up. And it's kind of pure opportunism. They just think, well, this is.
37:01 Speaker 02 They're trying to back a winning horse.
37:02 Speaker 03 They're trying to back a winning horse. People wanna be on the side that's winning.
37:04 Speaker 02 But also, but it, it needs to be on the side that's winning, but also on the fringe.
37:08 Speaker 03 Yes, exactly. Yeah. Also, they're outsiders as well. Yeah. Oh, the mainstream media don't like us. And you're like, well, the mainstream media hasn't got any fucking money and you've got all the money. No, but we're still the little guy. Anyway.
37:17 Speaker 04 Well, that all will make it in.
37:19 Speaker 03 That'll all make it in.
37:20 Speaker 04 That'll all make it in.
37:20 Speaker 03 That'll, that's all fine.
37:21 Speaker 02 If you want us to talk, uh, dedicate a whole episode to Hitler, let us know in the, in the comments.
37:25 Speaker 03 Yep.
37:26 Speaker 04 Lord.
37:26 Speaker 02 And if you don't, also let us know. Because otherwise, don't be ambiguous with it.
37:31 Speaker 03 Or if you don't, if you're not bothered.
37:33 Speaker 02 Because we might, we might dedicate a whole, um, season to Hitler, maybe.
37:38 Speaker 04 I don't think we'll do that.
37:38 Speaker 02 No, we won't. Can you imagine though, if like, um, they're starting, they're, they're starting to come into Berlin, it's 1945.
37:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
37:45 Speaker 02 They're starting to come into Berlin, but in both sides now.
37:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
37:49 Speaker 02 Like it is like, the writing's sort of on the wall, right? And that's when you decide to do the toothbrush moustache. Everyone will be like, you're a bit late, mate.
38:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:01 Speaker 02 And you'll be like, are we not still doing that? No, they're fucking.
38:05 Speaker 03 Not now.
38:06 Speaker 02 We've got, we've got the British and the Americans coming on one side, the Russians are coming even quicker.
38:11 Speaker 03 Yeah. Yeah, not now. Don't do it now. Hitler can't, he won't even see it. He's in his bunker.
38:16 Speaker 02 We haven't seen him for days.
38:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, he's, he's downstairs.
38:19 Speaker 02 Him and Eva have just gone downstairs.
38:21 Speaker 03 He's gone down there with the, with the dog.
38:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
38:24 Speaker 03 Blondie.
38:25 Speaker 02 Blondie, that's right, yeah.
38:29 Speaker 02 Right, let's go to fact check.
38:30 Speaker 03 Can do, can do.
38:32 Speaker 02 Fact check is the, uh, part of the podcast where we, where you send in something that feels like a fact and you'd like us to confirm it for you. Uh, we, we definitely do need to, we, me and Joe can confirm it. That gets the official stamp.
38:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:46 Speaker 02 But then we also need you, Lily May, to.
38:49 Speaker 04 Do the research.
38:50 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, you can tell us the, um.
38:52 Speaker 02 Um, so we'll be reading a fact.
38:54 Speaker 03 The mainstream answer.
38:55 Speaker 02 Yeah.
38:56 Speaker 04 People can always skip over that if they don't like it.
38:58 Speaker 02 You could be fake news. You can be, um.
39:00 Speaker 04 Yeah, I'm fake news.
39:01 Speaker 02 You can be in charge of fake news.
39:02 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, fine.
39:04 Speaker 02 So we'll be reading a fact or a question that you'd like us to get to the bottom of and we're going to discuss it. We'll have a little ad break and we'll discuss it. And then we'll come back and decide whether it is a fact or not fact. I believe that's fiction. Joe, have you got this week's fact?
39:21 Speaker 03 Well, um, you say that and the answer is sort of.
39:24 Speaker 02 Okay.
39:25 Speaker 03 This week's fact check comes from Holly. She sent us a voice note.
39:29 Speaker 02 Oh, nice. Hi, my name's Holly and I just want to know, does the phrase break your leg come from? Someone who was famously known for having good luck and then they broke their leg. Holly, thank you very much for that message.
39:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, good, good.
39:45 Speaker 02 And I'll tell you something, goo- good one.
39:48 Speaker 03 Good one, really good one. Love this area.
39:50 Speaker 02 That is classic.
39:51 Speaker 03 Love this area.
39:51 Speaker 02 That is classic fact up.
39:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:53 Speaker 02 You've got yourself a phrase that's commonly used in the arts, in theatre especially.
40:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:00 Speaker 02 Where it's, it's considered bad luck to wish someone good luck before they go on stage. And.
40:08 Speaker 03 So you do the opposite.
40:09 Speaker 02 So you say the opposite.
40:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:10 Speaker 02 Go and break your leg.
40:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, go and break a leg.
40:12 Speaker 02 Break a leg.
40:12 Speaker 03 Yes, yes.
40:13 Speaker 02 Um, now, let's go for a break, because I do need to piss as well.
40:17 Speaker 03 Okay, yeah.
40:18 Speaker 02 Uh, so we'll.
40:18 Speaker 03 Break a leg.
40:19 Speaker 02 We'll listen to some, uh, we'll listen to some adverts and we'll be back and we'll let you know whether this is where. What are we, what does Holly want to know actually?
40:28 Speaker 04 Did the phrase break a leg come from someone who famously had the luck?
40:33 Speaker 03 Famously had the luck.
40:34 Speaker 02 They broke the leg, right.
40:35 Speaker 03 This year, because I, first of all, I'd like, well, we'll save this, we'll go to a break.
40:38 Speaker 02 Holly, leave it with us, we'll be back, we'll be back with you with an answer.
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41:19 Speaker 01 I'm Claire Buckley and this Halloween on my podcast, Pretty Scary, we are going to cover the stories that keep you up at night. Real crimes, ghosts and aliens. Plus the scariest movies to watch this spooky season with the lights off. So as the nights draw in, the pumpkins are carved and somewhere in the dark, something is scratching at the window. It's probably just the cat, right? Get the candles lit and search for Pretty Scary with Claire Buckley.
41:58 Speaker 05 Joe and James Fact Up.
42:01 Speaker 02 Welcome back to Joe and James Fact Up. We are, we were just fact checking on behalf of Holly, who wanted to know, did the phrase break a leg come from someone who famously?
42:13 Speaker 02 Is that alright?
42:13 Speaker 03 I guess so.
42:15 Speaker 04 No one's, I don't think anyone's commented, don't let.
42:17 Speaker 03 At least it's not a yeah. I'm doing well with them, aren't I?
42:21 Speaker 02 I don't know. I don't know if it's the problem.
42:24 Speaker 03 I know I'm doing well.
42:25 Speaker 04 You are doing well, aren't you?
42:26 Speaker 02 We all say yeah, like.
42:28 Speaker 03 Not me, not anymore.
42:29 Speaker 02 No. Anyway, Holly wanted to know, did the phrase break a leg come from someone who famously had good luck after breaking their leg? Now, it's a, it's definitely, I know it's definitely in the acting space, isn't it?
42:43 Speaker 03 It's a theatre term.
42:44 Speaker 02 Break a leg. Now, I'm wondering, Joe.
42:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
42:49 Speaker 02 First of all, Holly, I don't think it's got anything to do with a bloke that was so lucky that he then broke a leg. I don't, I've never heard that before in my life.
42:58 Speaker 03 How do you get a reputation for being really lucky? I guess win the lottery, I suppose.
43:03 Speaker 02 People say I'm lucky.
43:05 Speaker 03 People say I'm lucky too.
43:06 Speaker 02 Do you know what I mean?
43:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
43:07 Speaker 02 We were in a big hit TV show.
43:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
43:09 Speaker 02 With our talent.
43:10 Speaker 03 Yeah. No, we're in a big TV show with, I imagine quite a lot of people looking at me like, I could do that.
43:16 Speaker 02 That's my argument. Like when people, if people ever said to me like, well, you haven't done anything since, have you? Like, I get that, I get that quite a lot.
43:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, why?
43:25 Speaker 02 He's not done anything since. And like, well, we did the best. Like the Inbetweeners is in Britain, right? And if you want to work in Britain in comedy and you want to work in sitcoms, it doesn't get much bigger than the Inbetweeners. So I've already done that, first of all. And secondly, I've overachieved.
43:42 Speaker 03 Fuck, yeah.
43:43 Speaker 02 Like I shouldn't have been allowed to have done a sitcom like the Inbetweeners.
43:47 Speaker 03 I know.
43:47 Speaker 02 I'm not talented enough to be able to do that.
43:50 Speaker 03 It is, yeah.
43:51 Speaker 02 Like I've done better than what I should do. So why are you having a go at me?
43:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, I sort of, I feel the same.
43:58 Speaker 02 But I have got a feeling, right, that it's got to do something with Elizabethan times. I feel like it's got to do with some, something with Shakespeare, because you're not allowed to talk about Macbeth.
44:17 Speaker 03 Yep.
44:18 Speaker 02 Backstage.
44:19 Speaker 03 You have to say the Scottish play.
44:20 Speaker 02 The Scottish play.
44:24 Speaker 02 So, and I feel like that's when all these sort of superstitions and weirdos sort of stuff started coming about.
44:31 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
44:32 Speaker 02 I remember when I was, um, when I was doing like a school production of something. And we were making a joke how you're not allowed to say Macbeth.
44:43 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
44:43 Speaker 02 Backstage.
44:44 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
44:44 Speaker 02 So we just kept saying Macbeth.
44:46 Speaker 03 I did this on a, um, on, on a trip.
44:49 Speaker 02 We were hilarious, by the way. We were such a.
44:52 Speaker 03 I did this.
44:53 Speaker 02 Such a bunch of renegades. What a hooped. Yeah.
44:56 Speaker 03 I did this on a trip that I did with a theatre group when I was at university. And I, as a joke, I would always say, what can possibly go wrong?
45:04 Speaker 02 Right.
45:05 Speaker 03 And I, um, on the ferry on the way back, I've.
45:09 Speaker 02 You should have that on your gravestone.
45:11 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:14 Speaker 02 Here lies Joe Thomas.
45:15 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:16 Speaker 02 What could possibly go wrong?
45:17 Speaker 03 Yeah. Isn't it, is it Spike Milligan who's gravestone says?
45:21 Speaker 02 Fucking brilliant. I told you I was ill. It's so good.
45:24 Speaker 03 I mean, it's really funny.
45:25 Speaker 02 You know what, right? I'm obs- I, it, I.
45:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:28 Speaker 02 Once a week, I think about that gravestone and what an amazing joke that is.
45:33 Speaker 03 It's really funny.
45:33 Speaker 02 And I do genuinely think of my gravestone.
45:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, what, what it'll be.
45:38 Speaker 02 And what I wanna put, have put on it.
45:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:40 Speaker 02 And I can't think of anything better than I told you I was ill.
45:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's brilliant. It's brilliant.
45:45 Speaker 02 Yeah.
45:46 Speaker 03 Anyway, to go back to my literally less good thing, I was saying, what can possibly go wrong? And then on the ferry on the way back, I fell over on deck and knocked my front teeth backwards.
45:55 Speaker 02 Nice.
45:56 Speaker 03 So, um, was it a famously lucky person?
45:59 Speaker 02 I'm gonna say that's not a fact.
46:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:01 Speaker 02 I'm, I don't know what the fact is.
46:03 Speaker 03 Well, I think what we're saying is that it's considered bad luck to wish somebody good luck. So instead of saying good luck.
46:09 Speaker 02 It's, uh.
46:10 Speaker 03 You do a counterintuitive thing and you say, break your leg.
46:13 Speaker 02 Yeah.
46:13 Speaker 03 And then.
46:14 Speaker 02 It's what they say, uh, in Blackadder where, where all my historical knowledge has come from.
46:19 Speaker 03 Right.
46:19 Speaker 02 You were exorcising demons.
46:22 Speaker 03 Right, okay.
46:23 Speaker 02 By saying Macbeth.
46:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:28 Speaker 03 I actually, is that first series?
46:30 Speaker 02 Your hero must roar. No, that's Blackadder the third with Hugh Laurie.
46:35 Speaker 03 Yeah, okay, yeah.
46:36 Speaker 02 As Prince George.
46:38 Speaker 03 I can't remember that bit.
46:40 Speaker 02 Go and check it out, Joe.
46:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:41 Speaker 02 Go and watch it, mate. It's really good.
46:42 Speaker 03 It's good.
46:43 Speaker 02 I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say it's got nothing to do with that and it's got more, it's more likely got something to do with Elizabethan Shakespearean times.
46:52 Speaker 03 We don't think it's somebody who really broke a leg.
46:54 Speaker 02 After they were so lucky.
46:56 Speaker 03 After they were famously lucky.
46:57 Speaker 02 Yeah.
46:58 Speaker 03 Okay.
46:59 Speaker 02 That's what we're saying. That's not fact.
47:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, great, great, great voice, great voice note.
47:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, Holly.
47:04 Speaker 03 Great voice note.
47:05 Speaker 02 I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I've, well, I mean, I'm not, you're looking to us for it to say whether it is fact or not. I'm not like.
47:12 Speaker 03 Sure, yeah, no, we're not. Yeah, she's not hoping it's true. She just wants answers.
47:16 Speaker 02 But I would just like to say, thank you, Holly, for being our first
47:20 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:21 Speaker 02 voice note.
47:21 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:22 Speaker 02 And I do encourage them. I love a voice note.
47:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, and great area of intrigue.
47:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, really good. Break a leg. Where's that fucking come from?
47:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:31 Speaker 02 Absolutely where we're supposed to be.
47:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:33 Speaker 02 Um, but I'm gonna say that's not fact up.
47:36 Speaker 03 Okay, and now.
47:38 Speaker 02 Do you agree?
47:39 Speaker 03 I do know, I know, I know, I agree. I agree. I'm not sure about this lucky person.
47:42 Speaker 02 Yeah.
47:42 Speaker 03 And I'm not sure they break a leg.
47:44 Speaker 02 But now we do have to throw it over to Lily May because, and I listened to a couple of episodes where we didn't and I was like, oh no, I do really want to know.
47:51 Speaker 03 As we're doing here, I was like, this is a really annoying thing to do.
47:55 Speaker 02 Yeah.
47:56 Speaker 03 So we won't do it again.
47:57 Speaker 02 No, we will, we will get to the bottom of it.
47:59 Speaker 04 We can just decide per episode, I think. See how we go.
48:02 Speaker 03 Oh, I don't know. I think people, you can't, you know, that's like we're getting to the end of a mystery book and they haven't actually worked out what happened. They're like, oh, isn't it better? This way, you know, of course it's not fucking better. See, everybody's gonna read to the fucking end.
48:15 Speaker 02 It's the, it's the, it's the Sarnos. It's the, it's the final episode of The Sopranos.
48:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
48:19 Speaker 04 People aren't listening for real facts.
48:23 Speaker 04 This is, so what?
48:23 Speaker 03 Oh, I see. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it might be. Yeah.
48:25 Speaker 02 Yeah.
48:26 Speaker 04 What I've looked at is I think you guys are on the right lines. It looks like there's no definitive answer as to where it originated from. So there's a few different kind of theories on where it originated from. Um, it seems that it has German descent is where people think it originated from. And people would say break a neck or a leg. So that's one of the phrases.
48:46 Speaker 02 They're so much fun, the Germans, aren't they?
48:49 Speaker 02 They're such a laugh, those guys.
48:52 Speaker 04 And it's, and it's, I believe this is comes from like a translation thing. So there's a phrase that's Hals und Beinbrunk, I think, which is neck and, uh, neck and leg.
49:01 Speaker 02 Right.
49:01 Speaker 04 But that comes from a Yiddish phrase, which is Hachslage und Brosch, which I imagine sounds similar if you're German or Yiddish. And that actually means success and blessings. So that actually means, you know, I'm wishing you luck. But it sounds similar to break an
49:19 Speaker 03 Okay, I see. So it's ba- basically it's like, excuse me. Isn't it? It's like.
49:24 Speaker 04 It's exactly like that.
49:25 Speaker 02 It's wanky very much.
49:28 Speaker 03 Basically, the correct answer is it's wanky very much. Yeah.
49:31 Speaker 04 It's wanky very much. Uh, I can go on. Again, there's popular belief saying it's sort of the reverse superstition. So people wishing upon the other. There's others where it's like lots of leg sort of involvements in the theatre. So that's the leg line. So that being a phrase, overusing your legs, stomping in the theatre. So you might break your leg. So there's loads of sort of working theories on where it comes from.
49:53 Speaker 02 Right.
49:53 Speaker 04 But one that isn't true is that it comes from a famously lucky person.
49:56 Speaker 02 A lucky bloke that broke a leg.
49:58 Speaker 04 So that's something we know is not true.
50:00 Speaker 02 Yeah.
50:00 Speaker 04 But where the actual origins, and it could be multiple origins coming together, but yeah.
50:04 Speaker 02 That's good.
50:04 Speaker 03 Well, excellent.
50:06 Speaker 02 That is good. And I'll tell you what, right? If you leave a voice note and if you say something like, oh, is this based on a, because I'm wondering now whether Holly just made that up. Because it sounds nonsense, but.
50:19 Speaker 03 Doesn't matter.
50:20 Speaker 02 But it was great.
50:20 Speaker 04 It's where your mind goes, isn't it?
50:22 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely. If you think, if you just think that something's funny.
50:26 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:27 Speaker 02 I might, I might add that into the criteria. Cause we say interesting. If something's funny enough, I'm I'm well up for believing it's true.
50:33 Speaker 03 I like the idea of this lucky man.
50:35 Speaker 02 Yeah, this lucky guy. This guy was so lucky.
50:37 Speaker 03 He's so lucky. Oh, something else has happened. Oh, but he's broken a leg.
50:40 Speaker 02 He's broken a leg now.
50:41 Speaker 03 Well.
50:41 Speaker 02 That's it. That's it. That's the only bad thing that happens to that guy.
50:47 Speaker 02 Joe?
50:49 Speaker 03 Yep.
50:50 Speaker 02 Have you got a fact for me? I hope you do.
50:52 Speaker 03 I have a fact for you.
50:53 Speaker 02 And I hope, is it better than my one? I really hope so, otherwise this episode's gonna struggle.
50:58 Speaker 03 Well, I have good news and bad news.
51:00 Speaker 02 Okay.
51:03 Speaker 03 I do have a fact for you. And this is about the origins of the salute. And-
51:11 Speaker 02 Perfect. I'm like, do you know what, man? I'm already like, I've never even thought of where the origins of that come from.
51:19 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, it's a funny-
51:19 Speaker 02 And why that's a thing.
51:20 Speaker 03 It's a funny thing to do.
51:21 Speaker 02 It's just, it's just, everything that we accept is in the military, it's a sign of respect or whatever.
51:26 Speaker 03 Now, what it comes from is actually removing your hat. So, uh, still, maybe if you go into church, you might take your hat off.
51:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
51:37 Speaker 03 I think it's quite nice to, to remove-
51:39 Speaker 02 Do you know what? I do it. If I, if I'm wearing, I rarely wear a hat, but I do have a flat cap and I do have a woolly hat for winters.
51:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:46 Speaker 02 And if, uh, and I have done a couple of times in my life, if a funeral procession-
51:51 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:51 Speaker 02 Is gone past.
51:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:52 Speaker 02 I do take a cap off.
51:53 Speaker 03 I think it's a nice thing to do. I think, I think it's a sign of, it's a sign of respect and it's, it's a visible sign of respect and I, and I'd see no problem with it. Uh, but just, but, but just for reasons of convenience, when military-
52:07 Speaker 02 Who's that Australian politician? Where, where are they like, they ask him about like-
52:12 Speaker 03 LGBTQ.
52:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, right? And he's like, and he's going, I don't mind, you know? Let a, let a thousand flowers bloom for all I care. But I'm not gonna spend any time on it! He like just switches straight away.
52:27 Speaker 03 I'm not gonna spend any time on it.
52:29 Speaker 02 Cause he's, I don't know what his name is. He's this Australian politician and he's, uh, he's obsessed with like crocodile, um, attacks apparently. Like he's like, really like, he's like, can we stop worrying about-
52:40 Speaker 04 Bob Catter or Bob Cater?
52:41 Speaker 02 Yeah. He's like, can we stop worrying about the gays for a second? Because there's a load of, there's a load of crocodiles.
52:46 Speaker 03 There's good, uh, there's good hetero guys over here. Being absolutely torn apart by crocodiles.
52:52 Speaker 02 I don't think he is homophobic. I think he was-
52:53 Speaker 03 No, no, sorry.
52:54 Speaker 02 I think he was just like, I couldn't give a fuck if you're gay or not, whatever. I'm more worried about people getting eaten by a crocodile.
52:59 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
53:00 Speaker 02 Which is, which to be fair on him is a sensible thing to-
53:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:03 Speaker 02 Starts to have.
53:04 Speaker 04 Crocodiles don't discriminate.
53:06 Speaker 02 Imagine that, if you like ran away from a gay into the jaws of a crocodile.
53:10 Speaker 04 Nightmare.
53:10 Speaker 02 You're an idiot.
53:11 Speaker 04 Nightmare.
53:12 Speaker 03 Yes, you would, yes. I would totally, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
53:16 Speaker 04 Well, that's our pride.
53:17 Speaker 02 That's the definition of homophobic, isn't it?
53:19 Speaker 03 It is.
53:20 Speaker 02 Do you know what I mean? It's like, oh, there's a game man.
53:22 Speaker 03 You should, yeah, you're more, yeah, exactly.
53:23 Speaker 02 Oh, no, but there's a crocodile behind me. I'll take my chances with the crocodile.
53:26 Speaker 03 Yeah. No, you're right. That is actually a very good definition.
53:31 Speaker 02 That's it. Do you know what? In about 50 years' time, people are going to do a similar show to this podcast and they're going to go, where did that? I'd rather take a game man than the crocodile. Where did that saying come from?
53:45 Speaker 02 Sorry, Joe.
53:45 Speaker 03 So, no, well, no, the fact is that as headgear in the military became more and more cumbersome, and particularly with the kind of the big bear skins.
53:58 Speaker 02 Yeah.
53:58 Speaker 03 You wouldn't take it, you wouldn't take it off. So instead you'd just touch it, you'd tip it.
54:02 Speaker 02 Yeah.
54:03 Speaker 03 And then that then became even more condensed into just touching the side of your head like that. And that was the sign of, that was the sign of respect.
54:12 Speaker 02 So it was a gesture as if you're taking it off.
54:15 Speaker 03 Exactly. And I think, didn't we have a similar thing about clinking glasses or something as well?
54:20 Speaker 02 It's about poison or something like that, wasn't it?
54:22 Speaker 03 Poison, yeah, like a, like a bit, it's to show that they're not poisoned, so that a bit splashes.
54:28 Speaker 02 They talk about that on the Ricky Gervais show.
54:29 Speaker 03 They do do, yeah. And so when I said we, I'm literally confusing us with another show.
54:34 Speaker 02 This is what I'm talking about, yeah.
54:35 Speaker 03 Yeah, I know. I don't know, I don't know which of my own thoughts and which aren't anymore.
54:39 Speaker 02 I don't know where my head brain starts and Carl Pilkington stops.
54:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, I, I feel the same, really. But that's, but that's the origin of that.
54:48 Speaker 02 That's good, yeah. I do have a lot of, I have an immense respect for anyone in the military.
54:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, me too.
54:55 Speaker 02 Because I always think, um.
54:56 Speaker 03 This must be fucking terrifying.
54:58 Speaker 02 I just think they're the.
54:59 Speaker 03 Just first things first, that must be fucking horrible.
55:02 Speaker 02 I just think.
55:02 Speaker 03 Like, you might, you might get killed.
55:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely. I just think they are the complete opposite of me.
55:08 Speaker 03 Yeah, I agree.
55:08 Speaker 02 I am a lazy, uneducated coward, right? So if you, if you're like, if you work hard.
55:16 Speaker 03 I'm not allowed to say yeah, but.
55:17 Speaker 02 And you know things and you're brave, like I instant, like, you've got my respect, straight away, absolutely instantly. I will say though, those bear hat things are stupid.
55:28 Speaker 03 There is some stupid stuff, yeah. They're silly.
55:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
55:30 Speaker 03 Why are they wearing them?
55:31 Speaker 02 Yeah.
55:33 Speaker 03 Genuinely, why?
55:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, I, I don't like it.
55:36 Speaker 03 And it's good when they have to stand still and they're not allowed to make a face and people can go up to them and stuff.
55:40 Speaker 02 Yeah. I don't like that. I don't appreciate that, actually.
55:43 Speaker 03 I don't think they should be being teased.
55:45 Speaker 02 You know, when, you know, when, um, you know, when they do the changing of the guard or whatever at Buckingham Palace? And there's some idiot tourist in the way.
55:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:53 Speaker 02 And so they sort of clatter through some toddler.
55:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:56 Speaker 02 Uh, because they can't move, they're not allowed to move.
55:59 Speaker 03 Yeah, no.
56:00 Speaker 02 But I do, I do just think like, get out of the way.
56:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, I know.
56:04 Speaker 02 They've got a difficult job. The least you could do is get out of their way.
56:06 Speaker 03 Don't tease them.
56:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
56:11 Speaker 02 Right, Joe, let's wrap up. What have we learnt today? We have learnt that the phrase break a leg definitely wasn't about some lucky bloke that broke a leg once.
56:20 Speaker 03 No. Lawrence Luck?
56:22 Speaker 02 Yeah.
56:24 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, what's happened?
56:26 Speaker 02 Oh, no.
56:27 Speaker 03 He's one of good fortunes ended?
56:29 Speaker 02 We've got a patient here, he's just broken his leg. What's his name? Joey Luck? We know that's not true. Um, we've learnt that the, um, V for victory sign, um, comes from ancient Rome.
56:40 Speaker 03 Yes.
56:40 Speaker 02 Um, which, and I am one of those men. Apparently there's men that think about Rome at least once a day. I am one of those guys. I don't know what.
56:47 Speaker 03 I also have to say, I'm not sure why that's necessarily a bad thing.
56:52 Speaker 02 I don't, I don't know. I don't.
56:54 Speaker 03 I'd say without further information, if someone's thinking about Rome, I'd say that's just neutral information.
56:59 Speaker 02 I think it's just a sort of like, I think it's just your typical idiot bloke. We've also learnt that, um, the salute, uh, originated from when, uh, people in the military would actually physically remove their caps in a, in a sort of mark of respect.
57:15 Speaker 03 Yep.
57:16 Speaker 02 So, good episode, I would say, Joe.
57:18 Speaker 03 I think so. Can I also just throw in? Yeah, yes, count massively down. I think we'll wait for the.
57:25 Speaker 02 I don't even know.
57:26 Speaker 03 Wait for the wants to get back to us.
57:27 Speaker 04 But maybe, maybe Emma will count.
57:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, if we could get the data in.
57:31 Speaker 02 Let us know in the comments, your yeah count and see if anyone, see if anyone comes up with different numbers.
57:38 Speaker 03 If you can do a comparison of yes against expected yes, that'd be good because I think.
57:42 Speaker 04 Maybe the average yeah count will be down.
57:45 Speaker 02 We hope that you've learned something or had a nice time at least. We'll be back next week armed with more facts, chats and removed caps. And don't forget that you can get in touch with us if you'd like us to fact check something that feels true to you or whatever nonsense. Message that you want to get to us. Our email is hello at joeandjamespod.com. Our WhatsApp number is 07822 034330. And our social media, you can message us on social media, right? Yep. At joeandjamespod. And head to the podcast description if you've already forgotten those details. That's a podcast episode for you. Hope you liked it because that's all you're getting. Bye.
58:24 Speaker 03 Bye.
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59:04 Speaker 06 Help I Sexed My Boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson.
59:09 Speaker 05 I'm Jordan North.
59:10 Speaker 06 And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life.
59:13 Speaker 05 William's the arbiter of etiquette.
59:15 Speaker 06 And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang.
59:19 Speaker 05 So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexed My Boss.
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