Steve Buscemi

Everyone has a favorite Steve Buscemi role. Lucky for us, Steve joins Happy Sad Confused for the first time in honor of his latest movie, WILD HORSE NINE, and also walks Josh through his decades-spanning career–from THE BIG LEBOWSKI to GHOST WORLD to THE SOPRANOS and everything in between. Hear Steve reflect on working with Quentin Tarantino on RESERVOIR DOGS, reveal which Adam Sandler movie he got recognized for across the world, recount what happened when he tried to be “funny looking” for the Coen Brothers on FARGO, and more. Plus, find out which movie Steve thinks is his best film! UPCOMING EVENTS! November 11th -- Anthony Mackie & Jamie Dornan -- tickets here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/apple-tv-s-12-12-12⁠⁠⁠ November 15th -- Rob Lowe -- tickets here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/rob-lowe-the-outsider⁠⁠⁠ December 6th -- Tom Hiddleston & Hayley Atwell -- tickets here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/much-ado-about-nothing⁠⁠⁠ December 8th -- David Corenswet -- tickets here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/mr-irrelevant⁠⁠⁠ SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠#rulapod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Quince -- Go to ⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  One of them looked at me and said, were you in, were you in grownups? And I raised my arms, you know, like imitating me and being in a cast. And then they all were like, it's him. And then they all started doing this, you know, and

• 1:17Josh Horowitz?

  You're worshiped as a deity over in a museum.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  This is cool.

• 1:22Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:29Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, we have a first time guest, long overdue. Steve Buscemi is here. He's talking about his new film, Wild Horse 9, but also his amazing career over 40 plus years in film and television. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it. That's up to you, but check it out. Two episodes a week. We get to have folks like Steve Buscemi on. This is a treat for me. I mean, when I was growing up, the heyday of independent films, especially here in New York City, where Steve kind of came of age, I came of age. He was the man then, he's still the man. He is fantastic in this new film, Wild Horse 9, which I am absolutely in love with. It's him, it's Malkovich, it's Rockwell, it's Parker Posey, it's Martin McDonagh, one of

• 2:13Josh Horowitz?

  the best writer-directors out there. He's amazing in it. And this was a great opportunity to go down memory lane with Steve. A fascinating backstory. If you don't know it, he kind of had two different lives growing up. He was going to be a firefighter. He was a firefighter as he was starting his acting career and then had to kind of make that decision to kind of like go for his dream as his acting career took off. That's fascinating in and of itself, but then also it's really to be at the forefront of the independent film movement in the 90s, working with Quentin Tarantino and Alexander Rockwell, all these greats of the day. Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction. I mean, the list goes on and on. Big Lebowski, Fargo. We covered a lot in this conversation. 10 plus movies with Adam Sandler.

• 2:58Josh Horowitz?

  He, you know, he's one of these guys that's just part of the firmament of film and TV and really easy to talk to, really funny, really smart, all the good things. I'm so thrilled it happened. Remember, if you like what we do over here, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy sad confused to get early access to every single episode we do here. Get access to our live events and we are doing a ton of live events in New York City. Check it out. The list is in the show notes and it's on our Patreon. Again, patreon.com/happy sad confused. Okay. Main event time and remember, seriously, put on your list, Wild Horse 9. It's one of my favorites of the year. Here is me and the great Steve Buscemi.

• 3:36Josh Horowitz?

  Steve Buscemi, you're on the podcast finally.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:39Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate you.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Happy to be here.

• 3:41Josh Horowitz?

  You have about 200 credits, so

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Let's go through everyone.

• 3:45Josh Horowitz?

  I was going to say, they told you that we're going to cover every single one. You have any plans the rest of the week?

• 3:50Speaker 02

  I'm good.

• 3:51Josh Horowitz?

  No, man. As you know, I'm a big fan of both this film, Wild Horse 9, and hopefully you know, or you will in the next 45 minutes, what a fan I am of all of your work.

• 4:00Josh Horowitz?

  Let's get the most boring subject out of the way. I know you've talked about this ad nauseam. It is, it is Steve Buscemi. It is Steve Buscemi.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  That's how I say it.

• 4:09Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you are Steve Buscemi, so you are the arbiter of that.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  Okay. But I don't correct people when they say Buscemi because that's probably, that is the more Italian way of saying it. And in Sicily, it's Buscemi.

• 4:23Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like I've heard like your co-stars and friends even refer to you as Steve Buscemi.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  I have good friends that call me Buscemi and I don't like say, oh, I'm sorry.

• 4:32Josh Horowitz?

  Like 25 years into the relationship, be like, by the way, John Malkovich, you should really know. No?

• 4:39Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, it's fine. I mean, if people say Buscemi, then I go, well, actually, you know, right? It's not that.

• 4:46Josh Horowitz?

  Steve.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:47Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's, it is Steve.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Correcting people all the time with that.

• 4:51Josh Horowitz?

  You hang out with very dumb people, we should say.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Oh, I can't help it.

• 4:56Josh Horowitz?

  Look, it says something about a career when you're like the regular of the likes of the Coen Brothers, Jim Jarmusch and Michael Bay. That speaks volumes, I think, of the breadth of Steve Buscemi's work, don't you think?

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:08Josh Horowitz?

  Just, just agree with me for that this moment. Is there a common denominator on the folks that you've gelled with over the course of your career, you think? Or are you the kind of actor that can kind of like work with anybody?

• 5:19Speaker 02

  I think I just, I mean, I, obviously I like to work and I like to work in different capacities and with, in different genres and with different people.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  I never had like a clear, you know, path of like what I wanted to do.

• 5:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  I just wanted to be in show business, you know? And I think when I was a kid, it was more, you know, like I wanted to be on a sitcom. Like, like that was the dream.

• 5:51Josh Horowitz?

  Because that's what it was at the time. That was the path.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  That's what I grew up, well, that's what I grew up on, you know? Like I, I really remember as a kid, just, I gotta get out to Hollywood and I, you know, maybe I can get on the Patty Duke Show, you know?

• 6:07Speaker 02

  But, you know, and I loved that show. I, you know, like That Girl, Patty Duke Show, Gilligan's Island, The Three Stooges, you know, like I loved comedy. I grew up on Jerry Lewis, but then at the same time, I loved Cagney movies, you know, Bogart and, you know, stuff like that. So that was sort of like a fantasy too, but I never thought that I would have a career of, you know, sometimes playing criminal types.

• 6:36Josh Horowitz?

  I guess it's dictated by the times and place that you grew up in and come of age in, and you came of age in New York at like the, the indie scene was just thriving and you, you were in that crowd.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Yes. I mean, I was sort of, I moved to the city, you know, from Long Island. I mean, I'm from Brooklyn and then, but grew up mainly in Long Island and then moved to the city, I think in like 77 and was living in the East Village because that's, that had the cheapest rents.

• 7:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  And it took me a few years to realize like the incredible scene that was happening there, you know, not only in independent film, but in art, in music, performance art, theater, experimental theater.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  And eventually I found my, my way in and, you know, by the mid 80s, I realized, oh my God, I am in like

• 7:34Josh Horowitz?

  You were in the right place.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  The hotbed of creativity here. It was just incredible.

• 7:38Josh Horowitz?

  It's ironic because I mean, having heard you talk about kind of your past and growing up, like you can credit your dad a lot, I think, to like your path to acting ironically.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Because he kept me in New York.

• 7:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  He was afraid I was gonna, well, I, cause I kept talking about, you know, I want to be an actor and, and his good friend, Peter Miller, who was our Uncle Pete, he was an actor, although he was, he had moved away from it by the time I started to get into it. But yeah, I mean, I, we used to see him in movies when I was a kid, like, like on the 430 movie, you'd be watching, you know, crime in the streets.

• 8:16Josh Horowitz?

  And there's Uncle Pete.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Don Siegel movie.

• 8:19Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  John Cassavetes is like this tough guy and he's got a little gang and Uncle Pete was part of the gang, you know?

• 8:25Josh Horowitz?

  So that made it real. That made it attainable in some small way.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  It did. It made it, it seemed like, well, if Uncle Pete did it, you know, but Uncle Pete lives in California. I gotta get out to California. And my dad, after I had taken the test for the fire department, my name was on a list. I took the test when I was 18 and he knew it was going to take a few years for them to get to my name. And I think he was just, he was trying to keep me in New York.

• 8:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  And, but he, because of Pete, he knew about acting classes and, you know, like Peter Miller went to the Neighborhood Playhouse. He knew people like Paul Newman and Tina Louise and, you know?

• 9:04Josh Horowitz?

  Back to Gilligan's Island, there we go.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  There we go. And, but I somehow ended up interviewing at the Lee Strasberg Institute and went there on a six month, you know, course. I think I went there because there wasn't an audition or anything. You just, if you had the money, you were in.

• 9:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Criteria met your criteria.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Came down to really?

• 9:27Josh Horowitz?

  I don't want to be tested on my actual skill yet.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  But I did have an interview with Sarah Igraman, who later became my teacher. And I remember her asking me why I wanted to be an actor. And my dad, you know, he was trying to give me advice and he said, you know, and if they ask you why you want to be an actor, you know, you could say, well, because it's good for life in general. It made later on, you know, you'll be in a job and that could come in handy. And like I said that in a really inarticulate way.

• 9:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  And she just kind of looked at me and she went, no, if you want to come to the school, you really want to be an actor. You have to want, I went, no, no, no, I do, I do. I'm still going to be an actor.

• 10:09Josh Horowitz?

  But it's funny, I mean, you've referenced this and a lot of people probably know this, but you did kind of lead these two lives early on. You were a fighter firefighter.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Firefighter, yeah.

• 10:16Josh Horowitz?

  For four years.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:17Josh Horowitz?

  So give me the chronology. At the same time, are you studying, starting to do plays, comedy? Like, were there essentially two different lives going on?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  I started, uh, taking acting classes, yeah, when I was like 18, I think, and commuting from Valley Stream.

• 10:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Uh, working at a gas station, you know, during, during the week and then getting some time off to take these classes. And, um, eventually, yeah, when I moved into the city, then I tried my hand at stand-up comedy, but really I was, I was a furniture mover by day and doing that full-time and, and trying to do the comedy thing and did that for a couple of years. And then they finally came to my name on the fire department list and I was 22 and I thought, I'm not going anywhere with the acting.

• 11:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  And I think stand-up is, it just seemed too difficult and not something that I wanted to pursue. So, uh, I went for the job and I really thought, oh, I'm, I guess I'm giving up on my dreams, but this, you know, seems like a good job. And, and then I realized I didn't have to give up on it, you know, like, uh, I, that's when I started then to meet people in the East Village, like Rockets Red glare and Mark Moon Jr.

• 11:36Josh Horowitz?

  Became your comedy partner, yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Sarah, Sarah Driver, Betty Gordon. And these were people that, you know, all people that I ended up work, working with. And, uh, so yeah, I was doing both, but not telling anybody at the firehouse that, that I had done stand-up or that I wanted to be an actor.

• 11:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, like, what did the two worlds make of each other? Were, were your comedy and acting friends, like, what is this life and vice versa? But it sounds like you were keeping them very separate.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  I was, but, um, you know, like, I remember, like Jim Jarmusch said, he used to see me on the fire truck, you know, like, and I think all of my friends that knew I did that, they, they were, they were sort of, uh, they liked that, you know? Um, and I wasn't afraid to tell them, you know, but I was afraid to tell the firefighters.

• 12:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  That I was an actor because, you know, the firehouse culture is that you, like, you give them ammunition and they will, they will go for it. And, um, but they, surprisingly, they, they, I think they were just more shocked than anything else. Cause I, I had a friend, Dean Tulipane, who was a firefighter and actor. And he kind of outed me one day, uh, because he knew I lived in the East Village and he was like, well, why? Well, like, what do you do? Like, like, what are you into? And I admitted that I was an actor and I'm telling you, I was like the quietest guy in the firehouse. And so I think they were just too shocked to even like make fun of me. They were like, you?

• 13:04Josh Horowitz?

  The guy that doesn't talk in the corner?

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:07Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  And then, you know, then I started to come out of my shell, like, there would be, you know, firefighter parties, somebody would retire, they, they, or make lieutenant and we'd have a party or a Christmas party. And one day I just, I had probably too much to drink and I just started doing like a Don Rickles routine on all the guys in my house and they loved it. And, uh, and so they were very supportive, but they were shocked when I told them I was taking a leave of absence and I was, and ultimately when I left the job, they, they were really worried about me.

• 13:40Josh Horowitz?

  Is acting all these years later still something like of an outlet for your outgoing nature? I mean, like, I feel like a lot of people that come on this podcast, I myself feel like I'm an introvert that just does this, like, because I will into existence, but.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  I'm, yeah, I've never figured out if I'm an introvert or an extrovert. Is it extrovert? Or out, yeah, okay. It's not outrovert.

• 14:01Josh Horowitz?

  You could start that today.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:06Josh Horowitz?

  Buscemi creates outroverts. That's the headline of this.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  But like even in school, I was either the quietest kid in the class or I was like the cut-up and the, you know, so it all depended on the teacher or who the kids were.

• 14:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  And, and I'm still that way. I could be very, very shy or I can, you know, be around people that I feel like, oh, no, I could contribute. Yeah.

• 14:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. We'll be right back with more Happy Sad Confused.

• 14:39Josh Horowitz?

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• 15:21Josh Horowitz?

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• 16:04Josh Horowitz?

  forth. They make it easy. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/happy to get started. That's rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. You guys know the best stuff in your closet is the stuff that you actually wear, right? The things that you just keep coming back to, whether you're going to work, you're going out, you're just hanging around. Well, with the holidays coming up, Quince makes it really easy to find great gifts for everyone on your list. This year, I'm doing a lot of my holiday shopping at Quince. And yes, that includes a few things for myself. That's okay, right? One of the things I love about Quince is that you're getting really high-quality

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• 17:30Josh Horowitz?

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• 18:06Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so it is, doing the math, essentially 40 years of screen acting. 40 years ago was Parting Lances, right?

• 18:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right.

• 18:14Josh Horowitz?

  Which was a major film for you at the time.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 18:17Josh Horowitz?

  Um, a lead in that film, important film for a variety of reasons at the time, filmmaker, sadly eventually did die of AIDS complications, I believe.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Bill Sherwood.

• 18:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So that obviously is, is a shift for you. And it's, it seems like, again, from the outside looking in, like, you're finding consistent work in those years. You're starting to work with Jarmusch on Mystery Train and, uh, you do Coen Brothers, first work, Millers Crossing, I think is the first time you're working with them.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:43Josh Horowitz?

  King of New York, Abel Ferrera. You're working with all the cool New York folks.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:47Josh Horowitz?

  Um, and then there's Reservoir Dogs. Is that, is that a game changer in?

• 18:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 18:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  Um, because, one, because of the film itself.

• 18:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:58Speaker 02

  You know, and his writing and his direction. Uh, but also in the opening credits, he put our names to our faces and.

• 19:07Josh Horowitz?

  Announced you.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Think that was like the first time, you know, like casting people or people who kind of knew my face but didn't know my name.

• 19:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Now went, oh, oh, that's who that is. Okay. So that, that was huge, you know, and that I think opened a lot of doors.

• 19:22Josh Horowitz?

  Was it an uncircumstance because famously Quentin, not only does Quentin famously like know all the parts, obviously by heart, he's written it, but he acts them out. And not only that, he was going to initially play your role, Mr. Pink.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  Well, he wrote the part of Mr. Pink for himself. Yeah.

• 19:36Josh Horowitz?

  So is that, does that create any kind of, like, is he giving you like line readings on set? Like, this is the way I would do it? Like, do you remember any of that?

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Not at all. Not at all. Um, uh, and I knew that he, you know, kind of wanted that part. And I think he was talked out of it by his producers because, you know, it's, was such a big undertaking to direct. And so he took a lesser, you know, screen time role as Mr. Brown. Um, but, um, yeah, I got lucky.

• 20:06Josh Horowitz?

  Did that, did that set, I mean, the script was what it was. It has to jump off the page. And he's so, I mean, he still has an amazing sense of energy and presence on set. But was it clear to you on that set, whether it was going to turn out great or not, there was something, something there?

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Absolutely. He was the most confident, he probably still is the most confident director I've ever worked with.

• 20:27Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  He just knew he had that film, you know, playing in his mind for I don't know how long. And he had the camera directions written into the script, you know, like when Mr. White, you know, the camera pushes in on Mr. White and you hear Mr. Pink off, off screen, you know. And the day we shot that, that's how he did it. And he refused to do coverage of me, of Mr. Pink. And I just watched this sort of like back and forth between him and the producers and

• 21:01Josh Horowitz?

  You're not going to cover this just in the edit, just so you have it?

• 21:03Speaker 02

  And like, yeah, he was like, no, no, I'll never use it. We're just gonna waste time. Let's move on. And I didn't even feel the need to argue like, like for myself.

• 21:12Josh Horowitz?

  I guess he knows.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  I was like, yeah, good, good for you. Okay.

• 21:17Josh Horowitz?

  So we're gonna shout out some bigger films, some smaller films. Here's one that's like kind of become the cult one that I always have loved is Living in Oblivion.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Tom DeChilo. Yeah.

• 21:25Josh Horowitz?

  For those that have not seen that film, that's a great movie, especially for people that love like the watching, the making of movies. Like, you're playing a very exasperated, frustrated filmmaker.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:36Josh Horowitz?

  In that the film is coming apart at the seams. Happy memories of that? Was that filmmaker based on Tom or somebody else at the time? Or?

• 21:44Speaker 02

  You know, Tom DeChilo was, he was, he started out as a DP. He worked with Jim Jarmusch. He shot Stranger Than Paradise. And so I just knew him and he also, you know, he was a performer as well, you know, he would, he would do shows. And he was just part of that community, you know. And so he had asked me, you know, he, when he did Johnny Suede,

• 22:13Speaker 02

  I don't remember the reason, but I didn't end up doing that film. But then when he did, he had Living in Oblivion, it was a short film. The first part of that film, the black and white.

• 22:22Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, that was initially a separate short?

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Just a short film. And so it was kind of easy to do, you know, it just took us like five days. But as we were making it, all of us, Catherine Keener, Dermot Mulroney, we were all saying to Tom, you gotta write more. You gotta like expand this. And he was like, well, let me just do this first. And he made the film. And it wasn't until a year later, at least, that we, that we filmed the rest of it.

• 22:49Josh Horowitz?

  It's so great. So you've, you have this bizarre, I wouldn't say it's a side hustle, because it's, it's taken up actually, I guess 12, 15 credits in your filmography. But the Adam Sandler work has been very consistent over the years. And I guess it began first with you acting alongside of him probably in Airheads.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  In Airheads, that was the first time, yeah.

• 23:08Josh Horowitz?

  Was Airheads supposed to be like the big thing? I feel like Airheads has become kind of a cult thing. But like, at the time, did it feel like that was going to be a big thing?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  It was, it was big for me because I think it was like, like one of the first studio films that I did where I had like a significant part, you know, before that, maybe I had like little, little things in, in bigger films. But this was like a major role in a big film. But I kind of liked it because Michael Lehman was directing and I had like Heathers. He sort of had an independent, you know, film sensibility. And yeah, at times the film, you know, like it's just the title alone, Airheads.

• 23:51Josh Horowitz?

  Set you up for

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Well, what? But I had so much fun making it. And, and looking like that character, you know, with the long hair and the tattoos and, and Adam and I, I don't know, we just hit it off immediately. And it just has stuck.

• 24:10Josh Horowitz?

  So he comes calling, I guess, the first one, which is still remains arguably maybe the most indelible is Billy Madison.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Billy Madison, yeah.

• 24:17Josh Horowitz?

  Which, for those that want a refresher, check out, it was, it was Danny, right? You were Danny McGrath?

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Yes. I, my, I did that. We, we filmed it in Toronto and I went for one day and we got all, like everything done. And, but it's, yeah, it is one of my favorite scenes in, in films.

• 24:36Josh Horowitz?

  Do people still, I mean, I guess, this is the beauty of Steve Buscemi, like, you meet 50 people in a day at a Starbucks, there could be 50 different roles. Does the Sandler work come up? Does Billy Madison?

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Sandler, yes, absolutely. There, you know, different Sandler things come, come up. You know, the Big Daddy character or Crazy Eyes and Mr. Deeds, you know.

• 25:01Josh Horowitz?

  Have you ever said no to anything that he has, has asked you to do?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, yeah. He wanted me to be in Happy Gilmore. And I think at the time, I thought I was going to be doing a Robert Altman film. And it kind of fell through, but I, you know, but I, so I missed out on that one.

• 25:18Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, I interrupted you. I'm sorry. You were gonna say something.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, you know, I was shooting, I did Clara and the Sun film. We were shooting in New Zealand. And we went to this, sort of this ceremony of indigenous, you know, people there, teenagers that were doing, I can't remember what the name of the dance is, when they, you know, look like they're like, they're making faces and they're dancing, you know. And it was really incredible. And, and, you know, I'm very serious. And I went up to them afterwards and I was, you know, complimenting them. And then one of them looked at me and said, were you in, were you in Grown Ups? And I raised my arms, you

• 26:04Speaker 02

  know, like, imitating me and being in a cast. And then they all were like, it's him. And then they all started doing this, you know, and

• 26:13Josh Horowitz?

  You're worshiped as a deity over in New Zealand.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  This is cool.

• 26:17Josh Horowitz?

  You could, you could rule that country, Steve, if you have an option.

• 26:28Speaker 05

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• 27:53Speaker 00

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• 28:26Josh Horowitz?

  Was Carl in Fargo? Is that a part that's written expressly for you at the time? Or is that?

• 28:32Speaker 02

  I think so. I mean, I had worked with the Coens on Miller's Crossing, Barton Fink and Hudsucker Proxy. And actually, before Hudsucker Proxy, Joel had told me about Fargo. He said, you know, we, we wanted to do this film and we want you to play this part. And he kind of described it. He says, but we might be doing this other thing first. And it was Hudsucker, you know, and

• 28:55Josh Horowitz?

  I do love Hudsucker.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  Which I loved it. And they gave me a part in that too. But I was like, oh, man, I was, you know, so interested in this other thing that they were talking about. And so I'm not sure if they wrote it for me, but they certainly had me in mind early on.

• 29:10Josh Horowitz?

  Did you resent when you then read the script and you're constantly described as funny looking? Carl's like

• 29:14Speaker 02

  I mean, look, I've told this story before, like that when I read it and I had the conversation with them, I asked them, what could I do to make myself funny looking? You know, and there was like silence at the, at the other end. And I went, or I could do nothing. That's fine.

• 29:29Josh Horowitz?

  Now I know how you see me. Great. Thanks, Joel. Thanks, Ethan. Yeah. I mean, looking, again, like 96 alone, it's like Fargo, it's Trees Lounge, which of course is very meaningful for you, as it should be, your directing debut. But it's also, you work with Altman.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:44Josh Horowitz?

  You work with John Carpenter. I mean, like, you just bottled that year. That's

• 29:47Speaker 02

  That year, that was an incredible year.

• 29:49Josh Horowitz?

  craziness. But then, look, props to the next year. You get to do Con Air. Come on. The spiritual prequel to Wild Wars 9, you and Malkovich, obviously.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  You know, my, one of my favorite things was Malkovich, John in that film, he and Ving Rhames like take off by Hannibal Lecter mask. And then the first thing John says to me is, I love your work. And I was like, John Malkovich is saying he loves my work.

• 30:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, don't think of the rest of the context. He's just telling me.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  He was talking about me as an actor. I know he was, yeah.

• 30:24Josh Horowitz?

  I've read something that Simon West, the director, gave an interview like a year or two ago. And he said that there was a time where they forgot to take the mask off you or get you out of the cage. Do you remember that?

• 30:37Speaker 02

  I'm sure that happened. Yes.

• 30:39Josh Horowitz?

  Just used to it. Just another day on.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  You know, hey, I'm still here.

• 30:45Josh Horowitz?

  Um, of course, I had the privilege of having John Goodman in here recently.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It was a great interview. Yeah.

• 30:51Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate you. Thank you. Um, I mean, is that, what's it like to be yelled at, belittled by John Goodman for weeks?

• 30:58Speaker 02

  See, this is another thing. Like, I read the script for The Big Lebowski. And they, you know, they told him to part. And I'm like, okay, I love John Goodman. I love Jeff Bridges. But do I want to be abused by like, through a whole movie? I'm like, what are they doing?

• 31:17Josh Horowitz?

  What are they saying about me? First, I'm funny looking. Now they're like sitting in a woodchipper.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Now they're just like, okay. And it wasn't until I got to the end. You know, when my character has a heart attack, but before he has the heart attack, he's, you know, he's scared. And John is, his character is treating him like his little brother. It was like, you know, to go back to Gilligan's Island, it was like, don't worry, little buddy, you know? And, uh, and I, that really endeared me to, oh, these guys, they love each other. He loves Donnie. He treats him like a little brother, you know, that's why he's always yelling at him. And, um, and then when I, you know, I have the heart attack, you know, and he's, you know, man down, you know? And then the whole, you know, the

• 32:06Speaker 02

  and what he's saying. I learned things about my character through his speech at the end. I'm a surfer? Wait a minute. Um, I just, yeah, then I just loved it. Yeah.

• 32:16Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, I assume you've heard by now that the theory that Donnie is a figment of Walter's imagination?

• 32:21Speaker 02

  I have. I've heard that theory. It's, it's pretty good. It's pretty good.

• 32:25Josh Horowitz?

  Kind of tracks.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  I'm not buying it, but okay.

• 32:27Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. So do you get, again, speaking of, of quoted, being quoted lines, do you get, shut the fuck up, Donnie screamed at you at all?

• 32:33Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, whenever anybody has said that to me, I just sort of give them a look.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  And, you know, it's like, I don't want, I don't want that all day long.

• 32:45Josh Horowitz?

  No, I understand it's coming from a good place, but we're in a polite society.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 32:53Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you know, this is, this is kind of like an amazing run for you in that period. Like, at that time, were you getting typecast at all? Was there a type of part that you were kind of like, as great as it was, you were getting sick of, or?

• 33:05Speaker 02

  I'll tell you, when Fargo came out, I was reading all these reviews, you know, uh, somebody sent me like a whole like stack of reviews from, you know? And I read one review that said, well, there was a couple of, there was, I, I could not find one positive thing that, yeah, about me. I'm telling you.

• 33:29Josh Horowitz?

  In Fargo?

• 33:29Speaker 02

  In Fargo. Aren't we tired of seeing Steve Buscemi in these types of roles? And one other, another reviewer said, Steve Buscemi, yes, he's like the cinematic equivalent of junk mail. And I swear to God, I thought, oh, I guess I should just give up now. I should just

• 33:48Josh Horowitz?

  Like coming off of like one of the classics of Walter.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  This is like, I love this movie. I, and I, and I was like, oh, have I played too many of these characters? And are critics sick of me or audiences tired of me? I didn't know what to make of it.

• 34:02Josh Horowitz?

  Did that affect choices going forward or?

• 34:05Speaker 02

  I, I think I was ready, you know, like, once you play a role like that, like, I don't know how you top that, you know, in playing a criminal like that. So, yeah, so after that, I, look, if I'm gonna play a criminal or a gangster type, it has to be with a great writer, director, cast, everything. So, yeah. Yeah. After that, I, I sort of, I mean, I think I was, even before that, I was like, I don't want to play, you know, like these, like sleazy guys anymore.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  But that one, you know, I mean, it was the Coen Brothers. It's like, yes, of course I'm gonna play. And I didn't, and he was written differently, you know, that's what I mean. I think they're such wonderful writers that, um, I found a lot to, to play with there.

• 34:49Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I would think then something like a couple of years later, like Ghost World is very rewarding.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:53Josh Horowitz?

  For all the reasons you've kind of just described, because he's, he's awkward, but he's

• 34:56Speaker 02

  He has a temper though.

• 34:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  He could be a real grouch.

• 35:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  But I loved that he had, you know, like the interest in old records and music. And, you know, he was like a nerdy kind of collector and kind of a frustrated guy in general, you know? And, but I think, yeah, and but sort of, um, didn't have the, uh, the same energy.

• 35:21Josh Horowitz?

  The people skills of, yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:23Josh Horowitz?

  The, and, and your negotiation with, like, that's a lead, obviously, and you've played the lead many times in your career. But you're also, I think, known as like, you know, I can count on two hands, the great character actors of our time. And you're on that list. Has that been something that you've embraced, run away from? Like, are you proud to call yourself a character actor? Or does it feel like?

• 35:43Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm, to me, I'm an actor, you know, and it's, I, um, I don't, I'm not that interested in getting leading parts, whatever that means. But, uh, I just want to play interesting characters that have, you know, some level of complexity to them. And are, uh, one thing that became important for me is that the characters that I play are important to the story.

• 36:10Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Because in the late eighties, I, I worked on, uh, three movies that I was cut out of. Woody Allen's movie, Alice, uh, Stephen Freer's movie, The Grifters, and Gus Van Zant's movie, Only Cowgirls Get the Blues. So they were all like these, you know, I was like, all right, how do I avoid this happening? So you gotta look for parts that can't be cut out.

• 36:35Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly. Were you, in all those cases, did they deliver the news in the proper fashion? You didn't like show up at the premiere and realize one of those situations?

• 36:42Speaker 02

  No, no, I knew, I knew ahead of time. So that was good. Yeah.

• 36:46Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, Sopranos must be meaningful for a number of reasons. You get to direct on that first and then play an integral role. David has said in subsequent years, I don't know if this is true or you were aware of this. He says that you, David Chase says he thought of you briefly for Tony's, the Tony Soprano role.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Um, I think he was thinking, yeah, I think they thought of a wide range of people. But what I like about what he has said is that he was, he, he, you know, he was a big fan of Tree's Lounge. And he actually hired, uh, Sheila Jaffe and George Jan Walken, the casting, uh, people for,

• 37:24Speaker 02

  you know, because of Tree's Lounge. But I have to go back and credit Alexander Rockwell, uh, because he, that's how I got to know them.

• 37:32Josh Horowitz?

  That's in the soup back in the day, right?

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, so, so, yeah, I, um, you know, and David wanted me to direct in the first season. I just, I mean, one, I, when I watched, you know, they had sent me the pilot and it didn't have that great credit sequence in the beginning, and it wasn't color corrected, and it didn't have the same music in it. And I watched it and I was a little bit confounded by it. I, you know, I wasn't sure what to make of it. And so I, you know, I just didn't make myself available. I was just like, I don't know if I, you know, I'm right for this, you know? And then, of course, I watched the first season and I'm like, oh my God, this show is incredible.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  And then the second season, I think I was, I, that was the year I did Animal Factory and, you know, so I was not available, anyway, not available to the third season. And then I was like, yes, I want to do this, please. And I end up getting, you know, one of the best written episodes by Terrence Winter.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  That was just incredible to do. Pine Barrens, yeah. And then that led to me getting Boardwalk Empire, uh, because Terrence Winter was the writer and showrunner on that.

• 38:46Josh Horowitz?

  But before we get to Boardwalk, I, I'm curious, like, directing and acting with Gandolfini? I'm just curious what your memories are of that. I mean, such a sublime performer.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  I mean, my first day of directing on that show was a scene with him when he's in the, the office of the Russian gangster and he's like, you know, kind of, he had just been on the phone with Paulie, like they, they killed the, they accidentally killed a Russian guy. And, you know, um, it was really intimidating, you know, I don't think he meant to be as intimidating as he was. That was just, you know, it just came with his size and just with kind of the way he talked, you know? And he was a very nice guy.

• 39:30Josh Horowitz?

  Apparently pretty soft spoken.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  He liked me, but sometimes just the way he looked at you, you know, I, I would go up to him after a take and he, you know, yeah. You know, and I'd be like, I don't know what to say to him, you know? That was good. Let's just do it again, you know? Anything different you want?

• 39:48Speaker 02

  You know, maybe you just pick up the, you know, I

• 39:49Josh Horowitz?

  Is that okay, Mr. Gandolfini?

• 39:51Speaker 02

  And I thought as a director, you had to give direction.

• 39:53Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  After every take, you know, and I realized, no, you don't, you know, it's, it's okay to just say, hey, that was good. We're moving on.

• 40:00Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right. Um, you mentioned Boardwalk, which came at a very important time, from what I gather, for you. Is that fair to say that you were kind of like, I don't know, feeling you were in a rut is too strong a term, but like

• 40:11Speaker 02

  No, but I was feeling a little bit, um, like

• 40:17Speaker 02

  You know, with acting, like, maybe it's time to to transition into directing more.

• 40:22Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Because I felt like I wasn't getting the roles that I wanted, or they weren't, you know, something seemed amiss. And I thought, I know how to direct a little bit. Maybe I should try and like, do that more so I get better at it. And maybe I could have like, a career moving forward doing that. And I was directing on Nurse Jackie.

• 40:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  And I had gotten in on the first season. And, and so I felt like I was able to even like, sort of influence the tone of the show. Working with Edie Falco, I loved that. And it was just, I thought, this is good. I could.

• 41:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I can envision a different kind of life for you.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Envision doing this, yeah. And that's when I got the call from Terry Winter, you know? I was literally in the, in like, the van scouting a location. And, and he told me I had the part and I couldn't even hear it. I, you know, I thanked him for considering me. He says, no, Steve, you have the part, you know? And then that changed everything, like getting a role like that.

• 41:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  And being on a, you know, an HBO show and.

• 41:27Josh Horowitz?

  The pedigree of Terry Winter and Marty and.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, Martin Scorsese doing the pilot and Tim Ben Patton then becoming.

• 41:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  You know, one of the main directors who was.

• 41:37Josh Horowitz?

  Sopranos better, right?

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Directed so brilliantly on The Sopranos. Alan Taylor also came over, Alan Coulter. So it was just, yeah, it was just an amazing group.

• 41:46Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I want to give props. I, I loved your work, the whole cast, the, uh, the company of actors and miracle workers. Those seasons were so.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Oh, good. Thank you.

• 41:54Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you get to play God, you get to play a shit shoveler, you get to do it all.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  I love doing that. That's a show that sort of, you know, um, was under the radar for sure.

• 42:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  You know, and I think maybe one of the reasons is that we, you know, because it was an anthology, like, we had a different theme every season, the same cast. But it, you know, it just confused people like.

• 42:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Like, I thought you were God. Why are you shoveling shit now in the Middle Ages? What happened?

• 42:22Josh Horowitz?

  But what a group. I mean, Dan's the best. I mean, John Bass is great, Geraldine.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  All of them. It was, we were really, it was a great, I love ensembles.

• 42:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  And I loved all of them and we had so much fun. Yeah.

• 42:34Josh Horowitz?

  So we should give some props. As I said, you're here really for Wild Horse Nine. I mean, talk about, you know, filmmaker, you would think like, surely he's worked with Martin McDonagh. He has not worked with Martin McDonagh until now. Um, this is when you kind of manifested, you kind of, you were shame, how shamelessly did you chase Martin McDonagh?

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, before that, I had shamelessly chased Phoebe Waller-Bridge in, uh, because I was such a big fan of Fleabag.

• 43:01Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  And, uh, I was kind of at the SAG Awards, I was like, literally stalking their table, hoping to be noticed, you know? And then I ended up hanging out with her later at the after party. She had her own party and, and, uh, so cut to like, a few years later, at the Venice Film Festival, when Banshees was there. Hi, Phoebe, you know, nice to see you again. Oh, hi, Martin, you know?

• 43:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  And, and we just really hit it off, you know, just having drinks together, crashing parties, and just talking, talking, and, you know, and saying to each other, we'd love to work together. And, you know, but that, you know, that happened so many times at a festival. Hey, love your work.

• 43:42Josh Horowitz?

  We should work together.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  We should work together, right? Please? You know, and then you never hear from them. Um, so I was, yeah, I was thrilled when I got the call.

• 43:50Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it must be also rewarding because as alluded to, you have this, you have a history with John Conair way back in the day, with Sam in this, uh, in the soup, right?

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:59Josh Horowitz?

  Way back in the day.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:01Josh Horowitz?

  Um, and, and your, your role is, I, I would imagine it's a fun one because I don't know what's more fun than playing like, angry and exasperated. And certainly your guy is both of those things. He's this CIA bureau chief who.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:15Josh Horowitz?

  Just, uh, there's clearly history between all three of these characters.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And he's a boss. I mean, I kind of like that, you know? He, and he's a well-dressed boss. I like, you know, it kind of reminded me, you know? It was a, for me, it was like, oh, it's another version of Nucky Thompson, you know?

• 44:31Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Uh, but this time he's more of like a bureaucrat, you know, like, having to like wrangle Malkovich's character, who is kind of going rogue, you know? And wanting to write a memoir, you know? Um, but there was so much to play with in, in there. Like Sam, and most of my scenes were with Sam. Um, and, you know, we talked about it, that, you know, maybe I was his mentor in, like, in the beginning. And we were both in the field.

• 45:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  Together. And then as I kind of went up the ranks, you know, then John's character kind of took him under his wing.

• 45:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right. It's like a love triangle. There's like a little bit of.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  I absolutely viewed it that way.

• 45:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right, kind of. I see it totally.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Come on, don't you like me still? And how come the guy who I revere, you know, Malkovich's character, you know, who I have a lot of respect for, doesn't have any respect for me? So it, you know?

• 45:24Josh Horowitz?

  There's that undercurrent of resentment of the, of the lost love.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, so there was a lot to play with as an actor. And of course, you know, not to give anything away, there's lots of surprises in it about my character. And that's, you know, it's just a gift.

• 45:36Josh Horowitz?

  I'm obsessed with all Martin's work and this is one of my favorites. Um, you've, you've got a lot going on. You were just telling me, so you've been shooting, um, Far Cry, which sounds like a very ambitious show.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  It is, it is. But also, you know, during, uh, Wild Horse Nine, you know, I, we filmed the scenes in Rappahannui, Easter Island. And then I came back to New York for like 10 days and I was able to fit in The Only Living Pickpocket in New York.

• 46:01Josh Horowitz?

  Which is great.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Which I had wanted to do, but I didn't think it was going to work out.

• 46:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  And I do that film with my other favorite, John Turturro. And then I, uh, went back to Santiago and then finished working on that. So I was incredibly lucky that I got to do both.

• 46:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I mean, literally right now, as you sit here today, there's Only Living Pickpocket. Um, there's this, there's Chyra and the Sun.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:25Josh Horowitz?

  You're ruling the fall, Steve.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  I'm all over the place.

• 46:28Josh Horowitz?

  Um.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  But yes, Far Cry is, um.

• 46:32Josh Horowitz?

  So it's based on a game. I'm not familiar with the game, but I know it's a big one. Were you at all?

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Familiar with it either. As I understand, it's pretty violent and, um.

• 46:40Josh Horowitz?

  You don't go through a wood chipper again. You're okay?

• 46:42Speaker 02

  No, no, I, um, well, I don't want to give anything away again.

• 46:45Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, no, maybe I just.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  But, but there's no wood chipper in it.

• 46:48Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Um, but again, I play like, uh, a power figure, you know? And, um, um, and Jennifer Jason Leigh, like, like you said, I worked with her 30 years ago on Robert Altman's Kansas City.

• 47:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  Uh, Lizzie Kaplan, you know, so it's just, it's just a wonderful cast. Rob, Rob Mack, who also is producing and, um, and Noah, you know? It took me a few years to catch up with Fargo, because I think I initially.

• 47:18Josh Horowitz?

  I get it. Sure.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  The TV show. I initially, you know, was like, whoa.

• 47:22Josh Horowitz?

  Not my Fargo.

• 47:23Speaker 02

  You know, but I just kept hearing wonderful things about it. And when I finally started to watch it, I was like, oh, yeah, this guy, he's making it his own and he's incredibly respectful of the original. So I thought, what more could you ask for?

• 47:38Josh Horowitz?

  Talked about some, making something their own. Um, what was the X-Files experience like? You got to be in the new X-Files pilot, which is now, I think, I think it is going to series officially.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  It is, it is.

• 47:47Josh Horowitz?

  And it's Daniel Dedwyler, um, Hames Patel, who I had on the podcast recently. Of course, Kugler directed that pilot.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:54Josh Horowitz?

  What was it like?

• 47:55Speaker 02

  It was wonderful, you know? I got the call for that and they were like, shooting in a few weeks in, in Vancouver. And I already had a lot on my plate. And I thought, well, I can't.

• 48:06Josh Horowitz?

  It's Kugler and X-Files.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  I can't not do this.

• 48:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Uh, and we somehow, you know, and again, that was like a one day shoot, you know? So, um, they made it as easy as possible for me to do. And of course I loved doing it. And now that it's going to series, we shall see where it leads.

• 48:24Josh Horowitz?

  So there is potential. Who knows? We'll see.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:27Josh Horowitz?

  What was Kugler liking in that, in that one day? Did you get it? Like the?

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's so sweet and so, um, just always wanting to make sure that we understood, like, what the scene was and how we could make it better. He, he would change lines. He would come in and just say, you know what? Don't say that. So, you know, instead, you know?

• 48:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  And, um, it was a different way of working, you know, because some of the directors, writer directors that I've worked with, you don't change a word.

• 48:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  You know, Martin included, the Coen Brothers, you know? So I was a little like surprised that Ryan was like, no, that's okay. You know?

• 49:02Josh Horowitz?

  Not precious about it.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Let's see, let's see if this works. And I love that. I love, I love those ways of working. I, I could work either way. And, um, and it was just beautiful being in Vancouver and, yeah, it was nice.

• 49:16Josh Horowitz?

  Is there, um, do you remember the last time you ever had to audition? It's probably been a long time.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. It's been a long time and I'm not sure that I remember.

• 49:27Josh Horowitz?

  That's good. That's a good sign. You've either walked it out or it's been decades.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  It could have been Reservoir Dogs.

• 49:31Josh Horowitz?

  Really? Wow.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  I'm sure I had something after that. But, um, that was the last one that I really remember, like, you know, auditioning for it twice. And the second time I auditioned for it, because I was filming in the soup at the same time. Um, and Seymour Cassell was also, who I was working with on In the Soup. He was also considered for, uh, Lawrence Tierney's role. So we got, we got to go in together.

• 49:58Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  And, you know, do it together. Um, yeah.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  All the folks that went up for that, I mean, it's like a long list of amazing actors. I think I had Jeffrey Dean Morgan in, I had, I know I had Jeffrey Dean in here. He said he was up for, I think Quentin's role, I think of Mr. Brown. Um, so many people that, like, it's just amazing that it obviously ended up with the perfect, perfect cast. Um, yeah, it's funny, but like, look, you had all these kind of great early experiences with the Coens and Coen Brothers and Quentin. It's been a while since you've worked with either of those folks. Are you like in commu, in communication with any of those folks all these years later?

• 50:32Speaker 02

  I do see, yeah, I mean, every once in a while I'll see Joel or Ethan and I, we live in the same neighborhood now. So it's, so that's nice. I've sort of reconnected with him, uh, over the last couple of years. But I'm just not one to like, you know, say to them, hey, do you have anything for me? Like, if it happens, it happens. I'm just grateful that I got to work with them. And Quentin, I just, you know, like, I really, I, I don't really see or.

• 51:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Know how to get in touch with, you know, but.

• 51:02Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know if he has a cell phone, probably, yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  But if I see him at a play, you know, then it's like, hey, how are you?

• 51:07Josh Horowitz?

  Of course. Um, all right, we are going to anoint. This is going to be tough for you, Steve. We're going to anoint the best Steve Bu semi film of all time and you're going to make the picks.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  What?

• 51:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, okay. This is today. It's non-binding. Don't worry. This is, we're going to do it bracket style. I'm going to pit some of your best against each other, just for today.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 51:23Josh Horowitz?

  For instance, Steve, Fargo versus Big Lebowski.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 51:28Josh Horowitz?

  I know, I know.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Wow. I mean, as far, you mean, as far as my work in it or just the film in general?

• 51:36Josh Horowitz?

  You could judge it in any way you want. Whatever your criteria is, doesn't really matter. Could be whichever the title you find the most entertaining. I don't care.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  I mean, I would go with The Big Lebowski, only because when that film came out, people didn't know what to make of it, you know. Fargo was the one that sort of like, you know, thrust them into the mainstream, right?

• 51:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. And then all their goodwill went away with Lebowski.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  And then that was their follow-up. And people were like, what are they doing? You know? And now it's become, you know, one of their, like, it's such a fan favorite. And, yeah, and I have such, you know, great memories of doing that with, you know, with John and Jeff, and even just being in the same bowling alley with John Turturro. And watching him do that stuff was just incredible.

• 52:25Josh Horowitz?

  Nobody fucks with the Jesus, we know that. Living in Oblivion versus Trees Lounge?

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Well, I'm gonna go with Living in Oblivion, because before I got to direct for real, I got to play a director.

• 52:36Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough. So, yeah. Reservoir Dogs versus Ghost World?

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Oh, jeez.

• 52:41Josh Horowitz?

  I know. It's your own fault for making so many good movies.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Wow. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go with Ghost World, because I just love, you know, Thora Birch and Scarlett Johansson in that. And I thought Thora was so incredible, you know, in that, in that role. And I loved, you know, working with Dan Clowes, who directed it, and, I mean, who wrote it from his comic strip. And, you know, Terry was a wonderful director. So, yeah, it's just, that was, and John Malkovich was one of the producers on it.

• 53:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Okay. Con Air versus Armageddon?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 53:22Josh Horowitz?

  Now we're getting to the good stuff.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  I'm gonna have to go with Con Air, because of John Malkovich.

• 53:29Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. And now it's down to the final four. We've got Lebowski versus Living in Oblivion.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 53:36Josh Horowitz?

  You see how this works. Now you get it. Gets harder, not easier.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Wow. What, what was the one?

• 53:42Josh Horowitz?

  Lebowski versus Living in Oblivion.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I'll go with Living in Oblivion.

• 53:47Josh Horowitz?

  Wow. Dark Horse candidate. I support it. I get it.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:50Josh Horowitz?

  Ghost World versus Con Air?

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, Ghost World.

• 53:54Josh Horowitz?

  And now, for all the marbles, Living in Oblivion versus Ghost World. The greatest Steve Buscemi film of all time is?

• 54:01Speaker 02

  But now, see, this is gonna be like, don't, no, no, this is what's, this is what will happen, right? You're asking me all this. But, you know, if this shows up on somebody's feed, Steve Buscemi says Ghost World is better than, you know, like, wait, I didn't say that. You're making me say it.

• 54:19Josh Horowitz?

  This is, this is, it's a, it's a big ruse.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:21Josh Horowitz?

  So?

• 54:22Speaker 02

  It's a tie. I'm copping out.

• 54:25Josh Horowitz?

  You definitely are. Okay, we're ending this way. The profoundly random questions with Steve Buscemi. Are you a dog or cat person?

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Hmm. I've had both. Wow, that's a hard one.

• 54:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, who knew this was gonna existentially really wreck you?

• 54:44Speaker 02

  Because I see the value in both. And I'm gonna cop out on that one, too.

• 54:50Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, you love them both. That's good. We support it. That's okay. What do you collect?

• 54:56Speaker 02

  What do I collect? Uh, um, like, you don't get physical ones anymore, but call sheets.

• 55:05Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  You know, they're all digital now.

• 55:08Josh Horowitz?

  They don't give you a physical, like, uh, no?

• 55:10Speaker 02

  No, they don't give you, you know?

• 55:11Josh Horowitz?

  The sides are not?

• 55:12Speaker 02

  I like saving stuff from the movies I've done.

• 55:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  And, um,

• 55:16Josh Horowitz?

  What's the treasure, what's the most treasured?

• 55:18Speaker 02

  To the consternation of, you know, my wife and my wonderful assistant now, who was like, archiving everything. Um, yeah, I, I, I liked, I, if I collect anything, it's like, yeah, the scripts, different versions of the scripts, and sort of the memorabilia from the film.

• 55:37Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a prized possession for many of the iconic films we've mentioned? What's the one that would?

• 55:42Speaker 02

  You know, I'm not sure where it is, but I have the cigarette case from, you know, Nucky Thompson had, you know, this like, gold cigarette case. And, yeah. And the lighter from, well, there's a lighter from Mystery Train. I didn't use it in the film, but I think it may, if it even been a wrap gift, because it says Mystery Train on it. So I don't think it was.

• 56:02Josh Horowitz?

  Very meta. It knows it's in the movie. It's a sentient lighter. Um, do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 56:14Speaker 02

  No, I don't, I, I don't play video games.

• 56:16Josh Horowitz?

  That's fair. Dakota Johnson asked me this. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Say that again?

• 56:23Josh Horowitz?

  I know, it's a lot to process. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees?

• 56:26Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 56:27Josh Horowitz?

  I know. Or one bee in your butt?

• 56:30Speaker 02

  I'll take the one bee in my butt.

• 56:32Josh Horowitz?

  That is the sentiment, generally speaking, yes. Uh, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 56:38Speaker 02

  Um, it's, I think it's, uh, do I have my phone on me? I think it might be a picture that I, you mean, like, what's on the?

• 56:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, the background. Yeah, yeah.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  I think it's a picture that I took in Rappin' Louie of the Moai, of the, of the Statue of the Heads, either at sunrise or sunset, yeah.

• 56:56Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Uh, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Actor? Um, you know, I get Gary Sinise sometimes. Um, I've gotten Willem Dafoe.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  And I've gotten, not an actor, but John Waters.

• 57:14Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  At one time, this is the most annoying, I was on a flight, and a guy turned to me and he goes, "Are you Don Knotts?" I said, "First of all..."

• 57:28Josh Horowitz?

  It's a hundred years difference, practically.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  "He's fucking dead." And if he was alive, yeah, he's like, you know, he, he's older. And I love Don Knotts.

• 57:37Josh Horowitz?

  That's the irony.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  And I got it. I got it, you know? But I was like, really? Not like you remind me of Don Knotts. Are you Don Knotts?

• 57:46Josh Horowitz?

  And how are you up and about? Yeah.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:49Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. The worst note a director has ever given you?

• 57:53Speaker 02

  The worst note? Um, I don't know. Sometimes, you know, you get directions like, "Yeah, you know, let's just, you know, come on, just do it like, you know." And there's no real note. It's just, you kind of know what they mean.

• 58:12Josh Horowitz?

  Just play with it.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Like, "Do you want me to go faster?" Okay, you know?

• 58:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right. They probably actually don't know what they mean. That's the secret.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  They just wanna do it again.

• 58:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Just say you want it again. Uh, and in the spirit of Happy Sad Confused, who's an actor who always makes you happy, see them on screen, better mood?

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Happy? Um, I think, um, ooh, that's a tough one. It's either Jimmy Stewart, you know, uh, just loved him.

• 58:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Um, John Casal, but he also makes me sad.

• 58:44Josh Horowitz?

  Like, five banger movies, and that was it. It's kinda crazy, yeah. Movie that makes you sad? Speaking of which, a specific movie?

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, oh, boy. I always forget the name of this movie, because it's in Spanish, but it's the one that, uh, Buñuel did in Mexico about the boys. I think in English, the translation is The Forgotten Ones.

• 59:09Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  Um, I think I only saw it once, because I don't think I could bear it seeing it again. Do you know this movie?

• 59:15Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know it.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Ah, can anybody tell me what the, what the name of it really is?

• 59:20Josh Horowitz?

  Google Powers, Buñuel. Um, what was the other, uh, clue to it?

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Uh, the translation of it is The Forgotten Ones.

• 59:29Josh Horowitz?

  Louis Buñuel, The Forgotten Ones.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  And he made it in Mexico. And it's about a bunch of street kids.

• 59:34Josh Horowitz?

  Here we go.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:38Josh Horowitz?

  That's the one.

• 59:39Speaker 02

  That one.

• 59:40Josh Horowitz?

  And a food that makes you confused, Steve?

• 59:43Speaker 02

  A food that makes me confused?

• 59:44Josh Horowitz?

  You don't get it.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, um, oh, I know this one.

• 59:54Josh Horowitz?

  Can't be, you can't lose this. There's no, just to be clear. We don't erase the podcast if you answer it incorrectly.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, there is a food, and it's...

• 1:00:05Josh Horowitz?

  There must be things on the menu that you respond, you're like?

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  I don't know why they, why, yeah. Um, oh, man.

• 1:00:13Josh Horowitz?

  What things don't you like? We'll go down that path. Oh, I see that on a, what?

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  And, well, anything spicy I don't really like. I don't, yeah, you know what? I'm confused why people like spicy food. Why they like to get their mouths like, hot. Sam Rockwell told me he and Parker Posey did, um,

• 1:00:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, did the Hot Ones thing.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  Hot Ones.

• 1:00:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  That's something I would never do. I don't care how much you paid me.

• 1:00:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  You know, how much you, you know, they said, but it would really support the film. There's so many people, I would, no, no. Yeah. It not only makes me confused, it makes me angry.

• 1:00:48Josh Horowitz?

  Clearly. Suck on that Hot Ones. Happy Sad Confused got him.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, you'll never get me, Hot Ones.

• 1:00:57Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I'm so happy you hate Hot Ones and it brought you here. Um, congratulations on, let's see, we got Claire and the Sun, we got Only Living Pickpocket, and most importantly, uh, this awesome film, Wild Horse 9. See it for Steve, see it for John Malkovich, see it for, um, Sam Rockwell, Parker, Martin McDonagh's dialogue, direction, it's got it all. Can't recommend it highly enough. And I'm so happy it brought you here for the first time. Thanks for doing this, Steve.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. This is really fun. I appreciate it.

• 1:01:24Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, dude. Appreciate you. And what was your, your best movie of all time again? It was, I don't know, I can't get them. Can't get them.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Let's go with Ghost World. There, I'm saying it. We got him.

• 1:01:34Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.

• 1:01:39Speaker 06

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 1:01:57Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Thanksgiving football starts a day early this year with the NFL's first ever Thanksgiving Eve game. A total marquee NFC matchup. The Green Bay Packers take on the Los Angeles Rams at SoFi Stadium in a primetime showdown. More football, more action, and a head start on one of the best weekends of the NFL season. Watch Packers versus Rams live on Netflix, Wednesday, November 25th at 8:00 PM Eastern, 5:00 PM Pacific.