Bill Skarsgård, Vol. III

It’s a three-peat with Bill Skarsgård! If you’ve seen Bill on the pod before, this episode is just as wacky and amazing as you’d expect. Bill visits HSC in honor of his new film, THE MOSQUITO BOWL, and also touches on 10 years of playing Pennywise, why he isn’t surprised by Zach Cregger’s post-BARBARIAN success, and what he learned from the complicated process of making THE CROW. Plus, Bill digs himself even further into his viral cats vs. dogs debate, pitches a superhero reboot for him and Andy Muschietti to tackle, throws his hat in the ring for future Bond villain, and more! UPCOMING EVENTS! November 11th -- Anthony Mackie & Jamie Dornan -- tickets here: ⁠⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/apple-tv-s-12-12-12⁠⁠ November 15th -- Rob Lowe -- tickets here: ⁠⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/rob-lowe-the-outsider⁠⁠ December 6th -- Tom Hiddleston & Hayley Atwell -- tickets here: ⁠⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/much-ado-about-nothing⁠⁠ December 8th -- David Corenswet -- tickets here: ⁠⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/mr-irrelevant⁠⁠ SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠#rulapod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Quince -- Go to ⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine you're not doing like your Pennywise voice in the company of your children. Have they heard you do Pennywise?

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Like? Yeah, if they misbehave.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  You know?

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, he can slip out there, yeah. Can slip in, slip out, and then Nosferatu can pop in, you know? There's a whole colorful bunch of schizophrenic daddy.

• 0:24Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:32Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, Bill Skarsgård is back for his third appearance on the show. So thrilled to talk about The Mosquito Bowl, yes, Pennywise, everything and everything that's going on with Mr. Bill Skarsgård on today's show. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out Happy Sad Confused. Remember, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it. That's up to you. And if you want early access to all our episodes, if you want access to our live events, and we've got a bunch coming up, go to the Patreon, patreon.com/happysadconfused. We've got live events coming up with Jamie Dornan and Anthony Mackie, Rob Lowe, Tom Hiddleston and Haley Atwell. I think I'm forgetting some. It's gonna be all on the Patreon in the show notes. You know what to do.

• 1:16Josh Horowitz?

  So if you're in the New York area, come on out and see us live for a special Happy Sad Confused, if you can, they're always fun. You know who else also is very fun? Mr. Bill Skarsgård. And for whatever reason, Bill has chosen Happy Sad Confused as his podcast favorite. He really, he doesn't, he doesn't do podcasts, and this is his third time on the pod. Our energy together, his energy alone, our energy together, quite unique. So strap in, this is a fun, weird conversation. I think there's tension in the best possible way at times. There's a lot of laughs and some serious talk, too, because his new film is a, is a serious, sobering film worthy of serious discussion. It's called The Mosquito Bowl.

• 1:56Josh Horowitz?

  This is a true life story about four young men, football stars, who went off to World War II. Some did not come back, and it is a harrowing tale told by Pete Berg, great filmmaker, of course. It's in kind of the vein of a little bit of Lone Survivor, and yes, a little bit of Friday Night Lights even in there, too, thanks to the football stuff. But it's, you know, above all, very much a reminder of the futility of war and how we kind of put our young men and women in harm's way for not necessarily the greatest good. So it's worth checking out. It's in theaters now, it's on Netflix on November 25th, The Mosquito Bowl. It's Tom Francis, it's Ray Nicholson, it's Nick Galitzine, and it's Bill Skarsgård. So check it out. This is a great conversation.

• 2:39Josh Horowitz?

  I'm so thrilled he has somehow become a regular on Happy Sad Confused. No more preamble, just dive in, enjoy the weirdness that is a conversation with Bill Skarsgård. Here it is.

• 2:51Josh Horowitz?

  Bill, should we do this?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  We should.

• 2:54Josh Horowitz?

  We should. We're here.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  We might as well.

• 2:57Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, we've come this far.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  You know what? We've come this far.

• 3:01Josh Horowitz?

  Third time on the podcast.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Third time's the charm.

• 3:04Josh Horowitz?

  We're going out. Wait, no, we're not going out, we're continuing.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Going out?

• 3:08Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, no, you're on your way, you're getting closer.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Burning out?

• 3:10Josh Horowitz?

  Nope, you're getting closer to the five timers club.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Better to burn out, to fade away.

• 3:14Josh Horowitz?

  Nope, nope, you get a hat at five timers.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Okay. Five time club. What are all these, like, official nominee?

• 3:21Josh Horowitz?

  Not for me, don't worry.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Okay, they're not for you.

• 3:23Josh Horowitz?

  Literally no acknowledgement, I've never won anything.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  All right, there's, there's, for all the viewers out there, there's a whole wall of diplomas or something, I don't know.

• 3:32Josh Horowitz?

  You must have, do you have an awards room? Do you have, like, trophies at home?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Um, no, no. I haven't, I haven't, I haven't gotten any yet.

• 3:41Josh Horowitz?

  You know what? Take any of these off the wall on the way out.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, I'll take one.

• 3:47Josh Horowitz?

  Um, this is like, this is like a therapy session, this is our third therapy session. What, what did you bring to the table today? What do you want to talk about?

• 3:55Josh Horowitz?

  Anything besides Mosquito Bowl that we need to cover today?

• 3:59Speaker 01

  You know what? I like, I, I think our dynamic is that you kind of, you lead the dance.

• 4:04Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  You ask me the questions, and then I might or might not answer truthfully.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  But I think, I think you have to grab the reins and, you know?

• 4:15Josh Horowitz?

  I can do that.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  It's completely silent, there's just empty in my brain.

• 4:19Josh Horowitz?

  That's not true.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  There's nothing, there's nothing going on.

• 4:21Josh Horowitz?

  That's not true. Maybe in the heart, but not in the brain.

• 4:26Josh Horowitz?

  Are the, are the Skarsgård's a neurotic bunch? I feel like you guys have, like, generally speaking, in my experience with all of you gentlemen, you feel like you're self-possessed, like, confident gentlemen.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Self-obsessed.

• 4:37Josh Horowitz?

  That's what I meant.

• 4:40Josh Horowitz?

  Do you call yourself a neurotic, or no?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  No, no, I wouldn't say so. I wouldn't say so. I mean, there's, there's, neurosis is a spectrum, right? There's a scale there.

• 4:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  And I think, you know, we're all, we're all on that scale, but I wouldn't think I'm too neurotic, no.

• 4:59Josh Horowitz?

  What, what, what does put you ill at ease?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Because we're tall, you know, we're like big dogs, you know?

• 5:04Josh Horowitz?

  Do you want to start on the dog and cat thing now?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  We can go, we can go. We can talk about the similarities between big dogs and tall human beings, and short little dogs and short little human beings, you know?

• 5:16Josh Horowitz?

  Did you hear a lot of?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  You know, whereas the big dogs, you know, we're not neurotic, you know, we're chill.

• 5:22Josh Horowitz?

  What, what, what species of dog, what breed of dog would you be, you think, if you were a dog? We, we already said you're a cat.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Bernie Senen, Bernie Senen?

• 5:29Josh Horowitz?

  I don't even know.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Bernie's Mountain Dog.

• 5:30Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, bro, okay, yeah. Okay, you've thought about this.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 5:34Josh Horowitz?

  Did you hear much outcry from the cat and dog community after our last conversation? I saw a lot, and you're not on social media, so I don't know if you're working out there.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  No, I don't, I didn't, no, no, I don't participate. What, what, there was a whole?

• 5:45Josh Horowitz?

  There was a whole?

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Debate?

• 5:46Josh Horowitz?

  A lot of debate. Because you came out very strong.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Against what? I can't remember.

• 5:51Josh Horowitz?

  You, you just flushed it out of your brain.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  I think, because you, you kind of roped me into this thing.

• 5:56Josh Horowitz?

  What do you mean?

• 5:57Speaker 01

  I don't know, you just felt like you were just like, oh, and then you made a thing of like, me not liking dogs or something.

• 6:03Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, no.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Where it wasn't true, I said, I'm a, I'm a dog and a cat person, you know? Because you can be both.

• 6:08Josh Horowitz?

  But you did say that you were more of a cat person. I'm not putting words in your mouth, you did say that, and you said you identified more with cats.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Well, no, that's not what I said. Putting words in my mouth again.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  What I said was that there's, you can, you could, you could divide people into like, a spirit of a cat and a spirit of a dog, which is different.

• 6:26Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Than like, being a cat or dog person, do you know what I'm saying?

• 6:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, this is probably the wrong thing to show you, then. Can we cut to the video? So I followed this up with your brother, Alexander, talking about this.

• 6:37Josh Horowitz?

  Watch this. Dogs or cats?

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Dogs, come on.

• 6:43Josh Horowitz?

  Bill had a really vociferous argument for cats. It was one of the most tense exchanges of my career. Yeah, like, he, like, he, like, weighed into me about cats, just so you know.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  He doesn't even like cats.

• 6:57Josh Horowitz?

  Just gonna tell you.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  He grew up with dogs, like, we've had dogs.

• 7:00Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know what he was doing, but he was.

• 7:01Speaker 03

  Our whole childhood was just like, surrounded by big dogs.

• 7:05Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Dogs.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  Mom has two big dogs.

• 7:08Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you. You were always my favorite Skarsgård.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  He's lying, he doesn't like cats.

• 7:14Josh Horowitz?

  I think he also said he related to being a cat more.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  Bullshit.

• 7:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, thank you. Okay, let's see. What do you collect? Let's save it better.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  All right.

• 7:23Josh Horowitz?

  That was probably the wrong clip to show you.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Favorite Skarsgård, huh?

• 7:24Josh Horowitz?

  No, but I'm, I'm a home team guy, whoever's in the room, they're my favorite.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  You slimy cat.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  So absolutely no loyalty, no loyalty of a dog and you. I think I was wrong about you, you're a slimy, backstabbing.

• 7:41Josh Horowitz?

  That's what they say.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  You know, change the wind wherever the wind blows, whatever that expression is. Yeah, you're a cat person.

• 7:48Josh Horowitz?

  So, but you did grow up with dogs, you said?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Grew up with dogs, yeah.

• 7:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  And cats.

• 7:52Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 7:56Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, let's move on, because we don't want tension here. It's a happy time of year, it's hot.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  I'm so relaxed, man.

• 8:00Josh Horowitz?

  Are you?

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's the beautiful lighting, the sort of ambient light in your studio.

• 8:05Josh Horowitz?

  It's very chill lighting, right?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  So relaxed and chill.

• 8:08Josh Horowitz?

  It's like an interrogation.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  And, and this is, I'm getting choked by your, by your aggressive microphone here.

• 8:17Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, you're in a safe space.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  You said it was a hug slash a choke.

• 8:20Josh Horowitz?

  I think those were your words, that's how it felt to you, so.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Well, putting words in my mouth yet again, gosh.

• 8:27Josh Horowitz?

  We're taping this the day before Halloween. What is Halloween like for you, given your pedigree, given your iconic characters?

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's funny, because a lot of people ask me, like, what are you gonna be for Halloween? And I'm like, geez, yeah.

• 8:41Josh Horowitz?

  That's the job, I don't do that for.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  That's the job, and I'm doing it for free, yeah. So, so, yeah, no, but my, my oldest daughter is super excited about it. It's like one of her favorite holidays, so.

• 8:55Josh Horowitz?

  Can we reveal what she's, what she's going as?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  She's going as a vampire, and she has like, four different outfits. So she might change throughout the evening, you know, like.

• 9:03Josh Horowitz?

  Not your vampire, I hope.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Not Dracula, not, not Nosferatu, no, no.

• 9:09Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  She, she said, like, you could go as Nosferatu.

• 9:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  And I was like, yeah, just tell your makeup people to put on the makeup.

• 9:19Josh Horowitz?

  Eight hours later.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  I was like, that's not exactly how it works, but, but, yeah.

• 9:24Josh Horowitz?

  Do you keep your, you, you must not do, I would imagine you're not doing like, your Pennywise voice in the company of your children. Have they heard you do Pennywise? Like?

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, if they misbehave.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  You know?

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, he can slip out there, yeah. Can slip in, slip out, and then Nosferatu can pop in, you know? There's a whole colorful bunch of schizophrenic daddy.

• 9:51Josh Horowitz?

  Can I show you, one other thing I want to show you, this is a photo of my dog last Halloween. Tell me how you think we did. What do you think? That was my loosey as Pennywise.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  It's a bit lazy, isn't it?

• 10:02Josh Horowitz?

  Holy crap, what is wrong with you?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Well, there's no face paint or anything.

• 10:06Josh Horowitz?

  You want me to paint my dog's face?

• 10:10Speaker 01

  I don't want you to, but if you're gonna show me your dog, I mean, you just put on a collar on him.

• 10:15Josh Horowitz?

  So you're not impressed, you're like, that's pretty lazy.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  It's pretty lazy, I think you should at least try with like, you know, what, what if the smile goes up through the eyes, you know? Maybe for this year, is this this year?

• 10:25Josh Horowitz?

  Never mind, I don't want to talk about, you've upset me.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  It's a beautiful dog, it's a beautiful dog with a beautiful smile, I gotta say.

• 10:33Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  With or without the, the, the face paint.

• 10:37Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate you.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're welcome.

• 10:45Josh Horowitz?

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• 11:28Josh Horowitz?

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• 12:12Josh Horowitz?

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• 12:57Josh Horowitz?

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• 13:42Josh Horowitz?

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• 14:13Josh Horowitz?

  Let's, let's talk about happier things, like your wonderful performance, your wonderful collaboration with the great Pete Berg and some notable young actors. Mosquito Ball, this is honestly, it's a great piece of work. It's an intense piece of work. Talk to me a little bit about it. I mean, it strikes me, I mean, the last time you were on was for Nosferatu. I don't know if I can think of two more diametrically opposite directors, maybe.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Sure. That's a very good astute point, yeah.

• 14:38Josh Horowitz?

  Eggers, precision, locking everybody in in the best possible way. This is where you're gonna be, move here, move there. Pete Berg, does a mark exist on a Pete Berg set?

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 14:50Josh Horowitz?

  Like cameras rolling, where are the cameras?

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Yes, that's exactly right.

• 14:54Josh Horowitz?

  So was that part of the appeal of this is like, let's just try a different method out and see how I?

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Of course, of course. I mean, always, always. And I think at the back of my, like, there's, there's, there's a few sort of like, I don't know, if you look back to when you were a kid, like you're eight, nine, 10 years old, like, like I was obsessed with, with war movies, but like World War II in particular, you know?

• 15:24Speaker 01

  So there was a part of me that was like, okay, what's on my bucket list of things to do? And it's like, well, like to play like a,

• 15:34Speaker 01

  to play a character that, that served in like a Marine in the Pacific or whatever, or you know, but, but World War II was always something that was like, I'm doing it for the little guy inside of me, you know?

• 15:46Josh Horowitz?

  No, it does feel like a rite of passage for young actors. Like every generation kind of like has their.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was trying to like, because the, the shoot was really tough. But I'm like, you know, like, just do it for a nine-year-old Bill. He wouldn't believe where you ended up, you know?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  But yeah, no, it started with Pete, Pete, huge fan of his and he's, he's, have you interviewed him?

• 16:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's very intense.

• 16:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  And he's, and he's great, but it's just, it's, he calls it controlled chaos. And I call it controlled chaos.

• 16:24Josh Horowitz?

  Mostly chaos, but in the edit, you can make it work.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  But no, I mean, but it is like, you know, the, he shoots five cameras. Brett and Koyer are two camera operators, were handheld cameras. And they're like, you know, long, like wide lens this close to your face.

• 16:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  There's no marks, there's no, I mean, you really just have to kind of forget that the camera's there, you know? And, and, yeah, that was just, that was the charm of it. Because like, you can be very conscious and self-conscious in front of a camera. And then if you work with Robert Eggers, you have to be conscious of the camera, because it's like a dance with it. So you're like, the camera's coming around and you have to really choreographed and, and, and planned out into, you know, minute detail of like how the execution of it goes.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  But with Pete, it was just like, okay, it's a 360 set. There's like live, there's bombs everywhere going off in your face. And you don't know, and the camera sometimes it just catches you. And you look at the camera operator like, whoa, like Brett, we caught something great there. You know what I mean? And it's absolutely unchoreographed and just an accident that happens, you know?

• 17:46Josh Horowitz?

  It must also make you, it makes you stay alive in the moment, even if it's no one, it's like nobody's shot, right? It's like, it could be raised shot at first, but then it becomes like, if you screw up your background, suddenly his shot is ruined. Like you have to kind of just be immersed.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, and we also had, you know, we had several scenes. So it was just like, Pete would just show up like, I have this idea. And then like the cameras are right there and you just shoot a scene in like half an hour. And you're like, oh, we got a little scene there that was just completely improvised, you know?

• 18:20Speaker 01

  And then of course, and yeah, everything with, with how he did the action on it, you know, was like, especially, especially today, you know, but like you don't do movies like this anymore. How practical this was, like, I don't, I think, I think you feel it when you see the movie.

• 18:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  But like, you don't know how practical it was. Do you know what I'm saying? Like you do feel it because like you can't replicate that on a soundstage.

• 18:44Josh Horowitz?

  You're here to attest, as real as it seems to you watching it, it was, it was that. You're watching essentially what you guys.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  You could, you could sit by the monitors and you saw the same thing. You know what I mean? Like.

• 18:56Josh Horowitz?

  Basically like him and like Ridley Scott that work this way, essentially.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:00Josh Horowitz?

  You know what I mean? Multiple cameras, everything kind of happening, happening in front of the camera.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:05Josh Horowitz?

  That's crazy.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:06Josh Horowitz?

  It's also like this great quartet of young actors. And this rarely happens. This feels like the kind of thing where like in five or 10 years, I mean, you guys are already all killing it respectively. But like, we're gonna look back at like, oh, wow, how did they get those four together in this film? So it's you, Tom Francis, essentially making his film debut.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:25Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know if you saw him on Sunset Boulevard, but like.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  No, I missed him on Sunset Boulevard.

• 19:28Josh Horowitz?

  That dude. I was, I bought early stock in Tom Francis when I saw that performance. He's great. Ray Nicholson, I think this is the best thing he's done.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:36Josh Horowitz?

  Definitely. And Nick Goudsin, is the nature of the, I don't know, the intensity, the nature of that kind of grouping different in this versus other experiences you've had?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  For sure, for sure. And I mean, I knew going into it,

• 19:54Speaker 01

  like just reading the script, you know, obviously based off of a true story. But, but just reading the, the script and I was like, okay, there's, there's stuff there on the page. But I think my job is to expand it and make this character feel like a, like, like an entire universe, an entire human being.

• 20:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  And these other three actors who I didn't know going into it, I didn't know, I didn't know any of them. I was like, I know that part of this assignment is for us to like, we better try to get along, because like the movie is about brotherhood and, and, and the sort of sacrifices that you make to the guy fighting next to you.

• 20:39Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  And, and yeah, so I came and I came, we had four weeks of prep in Australia.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Um, where we had four hours of football training in the morning and then military drills in the afternoon, um, and then rehearsals on top of that. Um, but it was like this opportunity to just go like, hey, like get to know these guys that we need. I think it's important that in anything that you do, but maybe in this one in particular, that we all felt comfortable and safe with each other, you know?

• 21:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  And then little did I know that I would actually like madly fall in love with these boys, you know, like we, you all, I hope that for that to be the case, but you know, a lot of times you hate your co-stars. It turns out, you know what I mean?

• 21:25Josh Horowitz?

  Down the line.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  But, um, but, but, but, yeah, no, we, we, we all kind of went through this journey together. We shot it chronologically, which was

• 21:35Josh Horowitz?

  Did you?

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Wild. Yeah.

• 21:37Josh Horowitz?

  That's another very unusual.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we were like, we were just inch by inch, going through this whole epic journey together and, and, and, you know, we were just there for each other and, and we supported each other and like, and, um, you know, where, yeah, we, we, at the end of it, we just like really held each other, you know, through it. So we've gotten insanely close and it's a beautiful thing. Like I've, I've gained friends for, for, for life on this film.

• 22:03Josh Horowitz?

  I, I always think back to like, these like manly men films of the eighties. I think of like Predator and the stories of like that set. And famously like Arnold Schwarzenegger was like trying to like out pump Carl Weathers in the gym, right? They were all like, who's like the most like jacked guy?

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:20Josh Horowitz?

  Does that happen to a lesser degree? Is there still like a, you know, I'm gonna like, you know, I'm gonna do more reps in the gym today. When I see Ray in there, I'm gonna show him what's what or?

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, there's, there was definitely sort of

• 22:33Josh Horowitz?

  Like an alpha male kind of thing.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Friendly competition going on. I would say especially between, uh, Ray and Tom.

• 22:40Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which was kind of like their, that was their character dynamics and it also like really mimicked it. Like they, you know, uh, a friend of mine that got to know them calls, call, call them Tom and Jerry.

• 22:55Josh Horowitz?

  Friendly bickering, friendly competition.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  But there was a lot of competition in that regard. And then I don't know, of course there's like, you know, there was a, it was a, it was almost like encouraged. The atmosphere was encouraging, you know, like, like, uh, like, uh, nobody breaks, who breaks first kind of a thing. But what's funny about it is like, yes, there is this kind of, and it's a Pete Berg movie. There's the, it is very masculine in, in so many ways, but there's like a full circle to it. Like when you do something that is like that, I don't know, you can spend, I mean, it's, it's just like if you played any team sports as well, like,

• 23:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Like, like you, like you become, you, you, you, you become so close with, with these guys that you're able to like cry in each other's arms.

• 23:39Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  So there's like, there's, there's that, how this kind of, whether it is sport or, or the military, I think does the same thing where it's like an ultra masculine, um, you know, setting, uh, but it also means that like you could actually access each other's emotions and like you can really open up to each other.

• 23:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  So that was like, um, yeah, you know, two sides of it.

• 24:02Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I, I feel like I remember from one of our previous conversations, you talking about like your dad not being keen on like violence in film or, or letting you guys watch violence.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 24:11Josh Horowitz?

  In film. Was that on your mind? This is like, I mean, this is, that's part of the mission statement of this is exposing us to like, these are the horrors.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:19Josh Horowitz?

  Of war. But do you remember like, remind me of what that was? Like, did you have, did he kind of limit the kind of things that you were able to watch?

• 24:27Speaker 01

  And it wasn't viol-, it was gratuitous violence.

• 24:29Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  And like, so he, he, he was very against like, uh, people getting kicked in the head a bunch of times and like unrealistic kind of, you know, that kind of like glorified sort of, uh, um, depiction of violence. You know, I think that, uh, a movie like this, who, which is horrifically violent, but it is the, the point of the violence in it is, is to just be a deterrent. I mean, it is to, it's, it's an anti-war movie.

• 25:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  And, and war is hell, you know? So, so the violence serves a point here, um, where it's not glorified in the sense that, you know, um, flying head kicks can be.

• 25:13Josh Horowitz?

  What were, do you remember the films you saw maybe a little ahead of your time as a kid? Like that was meant for an older audience that you saw, you know, when you're 12 and 13, like this is really an adult film. I shouldn't be watching this, but this is amazing.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Oh, 12 and 13, I'd seen everything, but I remember I watched Jurassic Park when I was three and a half in my older brother's room.

• 25:36Josh Horowitz?

  That made an impact?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  And for some reason, my dad really did not like Power Rangers, uh, cause that was like the gratuitous violence. I'd already mentioned it. Okay.

• 25:43Josh Horowitz?

  No, but it's interesting cause that's like, there's no blood there. That's just like a very

• 25:47Speaker 01

  No, but see, that's the point. It's like, that's, that's, those are the flying head kicks in the face.

• 25:51Josh Horowitz?

  Cartoon violence.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Uh, he's a strange principled man.

• 25:56Josh Horowitz?

  But you are announcing you're going to be the Yellow Ranger?

• 25:58Speaker 01

  I'm going to be the Yellow Ranger.

• 25:59Josh Horowitz?

  That's great. I'm so excited for you.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Full circle. Take that dad.

• 26:06Josh Horowitz?

  How great will you look in that costume? That, that's a very flattering look.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:12Josh Horowitz?

  So what you were saying, so Jurassic at three and a half, that made an impact? Um, and then?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  I don't know. Yeah. I mean, like, maybe like, God, is it like, but like, fine, like, um,

• 26:26Josh Horowitz?

  We wa-, I mean, we met, I mentioned like Predator, were you watching like Arnold films, Sly films?

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. All of them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But those are the ones that I guess like my dad would.

• 26:37Josh Horowitz?

  Not be involved in.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Whereas like, you know, we watched Come and See together.

• 26:42Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  When I was 12. So, yeah.

• 26:47Josh Horowitz?

  Are, are there actors or filmmakers that you've come to now, you know, collaborate with or even call friends that boggle your mind that you grew up watching? I mean, I think of like you just worked with The Cage. Like is that, is that kind of mind blowing to kind of like work with someone like Nick?

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

• 27:04Josh Horowitz?

  What was, did you get the full cage? What was the cage experience?

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Um,

• 27:08Josh Horowitz?

  This is Lords of War, the long awaited

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Lords of War. Yeah.

• 27:11Josh Horowitz?

  War.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I mean, it was the, it was, it was great. It was really great. I think we had a fun time. I think, I think he liked me and I, you know, that you kind of, when you're working with someone like that, you're like, oh, I hope that, you know, that he's relaxed and chill and that we're getting along, but like we actually had a lot of fun. Um,

• 27:33Josh Horowitz?

  I would think, I mean, given the big swings you've taken in your career, he would appreciate you.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  I hope so, you know? Yeah. There's a little bit of, there's, there's, there's a wonderful interview that Nick did. I can't remember if it was like, uh, you know, one of those like, um, YouTube, GQ, 10, whatever. I can't remember which one. Um, um, but he, um, he called himself the, um, comparisons to Klaus Kinsky.

• 27:58Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Do you know what this?

• 27:59Josh Horowitz?

  No, I don't know about the interview.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  He goes like, oh, okay, away. I, I am the California Kinsky. I'm the California Kinsky. Um, and I'll like, like, I'm the Scandinavian Kinsky.

• 28:11Josh Horowitz?

  You know? Every region gets a Kinsky.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You have the California one and you could also have the Scandinavian one.

• 28:16Josh Horowitz?

  I'll be the New York Kinsky.

• 28:19Josh Horowitz?

  What? Wow. Dead silence. What the fuck just happened? Bill?

• 28:22Speaker 01

  I mean, there's more than just calling yourself to get the New York Kinsky, you know? You have to really go there, man. You know, you have to really go there.

• 28:34Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough. I'll work on my New York Kinsky for next time.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  But you know, when, when, when I see you really go there in a performance, like come absolutely just send it, you know?

• 28:44Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Well, I'm pretending that you're my favorite scars guard today. So that's a performance.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're not doing a great job of it.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Not entirely convincing, I have to say.

• 28:56Speaker 04

  More Happy Say Confused coming up.

• 29:02Speaker 05

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• 31:28Josh Horowitz?

  Um, can you believe it's been, I guess it's been about a decade since you were cast as Pennywise?

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, 10 years.

• 31:36Josh Horowitz?

  That's insane. Do you remember?

• 31:37Speaker 01

  10 years.

• 31:38Josh Horowitz?

  Is that as meaningful a phone call, an email, as you've ever gotten in your career when you got the official word that you landed that role?

• 31:47Josh Horowitz?

  Was it a big deal for you at the time?

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a grueling process. Like, Andy wanted me pretty early on. So like, I managed to convince Andy that like, you know, like I'm the guy for the job.

• 32:02Josh Horowitz?

  And that's the studio.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  And then it was the studio and, and like Andy had just done one movie before. Mamma was his first film. So he didn't really have the sway and, and I was a nobody. So it was like this, you know, a continued thing. I remember, I don't know why this just came to mind, but I remember I was in LA during all of this. I was in LA doing all the auditions for it and stuff like that. And I think I'd done like,

• 32:35Speaker 01

  I think I, at this point, I knew it was only me, but it was like, we needed to convince people. But I was like out in the garden, me and my friend, we were just like lying down in the grass, just like, like, oh, just thinking about it. Like this, you know, weird, like, here we are and like, like a weird kind of like moment in life. And there's like one red balloon just crosses the world, crosses the sky. And we're like, oh, it's a sign.

• 33:00Josh Horowitz?

  Warner Brothers sent over one red balloon. That's how they're letting me know.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  That's how they're letting me know. Yes.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  But that was like my little, you know, like that one red balloon. It was, uh,

• 33:14Josh Horowitz?

  And then nine months later, they told you?

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Nine months later. No, I, but you know, I know that by that time, I just felt that like, okay, there's something in the air with this one. Yeah. When I, when I saw it, when I, I don't know, there was, there was something in the air with it. And then,

• 33:28Speaker 01

  so I remember, and then there was like another one and another one. And I remember when they were like, okay, it's yours. I'm like, all right, finally. Like I went out to Toronto and I met everybody and like, we did like a, a, a camera test with like a, a kind of a cheap clown face or a version of the, of the face. Uh, um, and like we did, so I was like there meeting the, you know, costume designers and like everybody. Before I'd gotten it, it was like this weird thing where I was like, uh, like if I don't get it now, it'd be incredibly embarrassing, you know? So it was,

• 34:01Josh Horowitz?

  So it's more of just relief?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  So it was, yeah, yeah. So it wasn't like, I can't believe I'd got it. It was, I was like, come on, guys. Like I've done eight auditions now. Like what more do you want from me? So.

• 34:09Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. Um, still finding the character rewarding. I, I, so the next season's been greenlit. I presume you're gonna go back pretty soon to do another season?

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Coming up.

• 34:19Josh Horowitz?

  Do you know what's in store? Have you seen scripts? Are you?

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Lips are sealed. We'll see, we'll see.

• 34:27Josh Horowitz?

  One of our listeners wanted to bring up, Jenny wanted to bring up your great performance in Dead Man's Wire. So you got a chance to work with Gus, who, I mean, one of the greats of all time. Um, I don't know if that's also meaningful because he of course also directed, directed Dad.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  In Good Will Hunting, yeah.

• 34:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, of course. So what was the experience? I mean, again, like all these directors are so different. Like Gus, in my experience with him, he's like the most soft spoken, gentle being.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's very mellow and nice.

• 34:52Josh Horowitz?

  Does he, does he get much direction? Is it just sort of like?

• 34:55Speaker 01

  That's great. Let's do it again. That's nice. Great. He's like, he's so zen.

• 35:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  He directs from a place of zen. Like it's, it's all like, you don't force things. It just kind of, you just wash the thing kind of. Like you don't force yourself onto the process. You let the process happen.

• 35:17Josh Horowitz?

  That's nice. That's sweet.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Now, he's wonderful. He's, it was, we had, we had a blast doing it. And then the character I was playing was so wired. And so, I mean, it was such a manic guy that I, I knew like, I'm like, oh, like I'm going to have to go there.

• 35:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  In the performance, and it's gonna be nice to have a director that is very calm. So like you can, and I did that one much closer to Mosquito Bowl and Peter Berg and Gus Van Sant is also again, two very, very different filmmakers. Although the way we did that movie was quite similar because it was handheld cameras and it was very much like,

• 35:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Just go, go, go. And, and improv was encouraged and, um, um, and yeah, so, so in that sense, it was, it was, it was actually quite similar. But, but yeah, no, he's, he's, he's great. And I'd spoken to my dad about it, you know? I was like, what? Uh, like I'm looking to, I might do this movie with Gus Van Sant. And all he said was like, do it.

• 36:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Just do it, you know?

• 36:24Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  And then he's, and then he, you know, and obviously he'd worked with that is 30 years ago now. And, and, and anybody explained sort of, we talked to how Gus would direct and kind of very like, that's great. Do it again. It's very kind of soft spoken. And, uh, turns out 30 years have gone by, but that, that was still the truth. You know, that he, that he still had that very similar approach to it.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  And then he kind of gently steers it to where he wants it. Do you know what I mean? But, but, um, um, it takes a lot of courage for a filmmaker, like the, the thing that I, that I really don't like is filmmakers that pretend to have all the answers or to know, you know, or, or, or they're uncomfortable with going like, I have no idea.

• 37:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  So it, it takes actually a lot of confidence for someone to go, let's find out. Like let's find whatever this is. But, but it, when you approach it that way, it opens up for collaboration because you go, I don't know, maybe you know. And then let's discover it together. And it makes it a lot more fun to do it actually.

• 37:34Josh Horowitz?

  I was telling you before I got a chance to talk to like Seth Rogen recently, and he was talking about working with Spielberg on The Fableman's. And he was so struck by the fact that like Spielberg would, like the day after they shot a scene be like, we need to pick something up. Like, I don't think I got it. And like the humility to kind of recognize that like he, Steven Spielberg is like, you know, I, I think, I, I just didn't, we didn't get what I needed.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:55Josh Horowitz?

  And I think a lot of like ego gets in the way, maybe of filmmakers. It's like, I have to like front.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:01Josh Horowitz?

  Knowing everything to their own detriment.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:04Josh Horowitz?

  It's kind of fascinating.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, for sure. But it's, it's, um, um, the discovery, the collaborative discovery.

• 38:12Josh Horowitz?

  That's what it's all about.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Is what it's all about, I think.

• 38:14Josh Horowitz?

  Do you feel validated that like you saying yes to Zach Greger? Now the world kind of caught up. Obviously Barbarian was the one that really like,

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I made him. I made you Zach.

• 38:26Josh Horowitz?

  Is that the email?

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Where's my phone call, man?

• 38:30Josh Horowitz?

  Working with Jennifer Lawrence now? Great.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 38:33Josh Horowitz?

  Good luck with that.

• 38:37Josh Horowitz?

  Are you still in touch with Zach? I mean, are you at all surprised by the trajectory, given your experience?

• 38:41Speaker 01

  I'm not surprised by it at all, you know? And of course I'm joking. I mean, he's like, you know, he's as self-made as you can get, you know?

• 38:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  And I, you know, it's hard to, I guess it's hard to predict the success of something like Barbarian. Cause it's like, you're making a movie, I mean, you know, we were, it's like a $3 million movie shot in Bulgaria, you know?

• 39:08Josh Horowitz?

  God, I forgot it was that cheap. That's crazy. Really?

• 39:10Speaker 01

  It's wild, you know? So, so it was like so tiny, but, but, uh, but the script was very, very effective. Like, so I just knew that this movie was, I, I didn't know, but I thought that the script was so good that I, that the movie was going to work. And it's going to land. And so I wasn't surprised by the success of it, you know? And then, and, and then Zach just keeps evolving and doing great things. It's, it's, it's awesome to see. Like it couldn't happen to a better dude.

• 39:41Josh Horowitz?

  And making kind of the right choices. Like, yeah, he had Resident Evil, but he just didn't do it to like, you know, do six of them. He did it because he wants to just like, get a take on it.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 39:48Josh Horowitz?

  And he's gonna make original stuff and just,

• 39:50Speaker 01

  For sure. Yeah.

• 39:51Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Um, I'm speaking of like IP and that kind of thing. I don't think we ever have like the postmortem on the crow. I don't know if you have a take on like the good that came out of that, a lesson learned from that the next time, like franchise stuff is going to continue to come your way. Is there like, I don't know, is there a lesson learned from that experience that you're gonna apply the next time? Like a heroic front and center?

• 40:13Speaker 01

  I think, I think the lesson was that, um, I'm not signing off, signing on to anything without a finished script.

• 40:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Like, uh,

• 40:25Josh Horowitz?

  It's really hard to start from there.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  It is, but it's, it's surprising how, uh, how common it is that something gets greenlit. And then you're struggling with finishing the script because the dates are already set and the studios are already locked. You know, so everything's already up in motion and like, oh, we, the script needed. So, so, so, so that, that was something that was like, uh, I think like that, that we, that we, like Rupert and I, and like, we just struggled with it. That we were like, okay, like this, the, the, the script came in, the first script was two months before we started to shoot. Do you know what I mean? It was, it was an insanely kind of rushed process in that regard.

• 41:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  But, um, but I don't regret any of, of like, of, of, of the roles that I've done. Like, and I think that, like, uh, it could be good experiences. There could be bad experiences. Um, but how you learn from them is, is, is really what it's about.

• 41:28Josh Horowitz?

  That's when you say, what you say when you walk out of the podcast with me, like that was a really shitty experience, but I've, I learned something.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  I've learned something about myself every time I've been here. Yeah. Yeah. Truly. On a like an existential level.

• 41:40Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow. Evil exists in the universe and it's Josh Hart.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. But it's more than that. It's just like, kind of like, whoa, you're like trippy. It's like, oh, it's all one. Like it's just, the universe is nothing and everything at the same time. And like, you know? Just for a moment, but it's every time I see you, I just feel like, I feel like I get enlightened, you know?

• 42:02Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Uh, and then it's gone, but it's just like that.

• 42:05Josh Horowitz?

  It's gone. Immediately gone. Absolutely. Then you feel nothing.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then I feel absolutely nothing.

• 42:10Josh Horowitz?

  You sound like my wife. That's amazing.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  I sound like your wife.

• 42:15Josh Horowitz?

  You keep getting brought up for these superhero things. Last time I asked you about the Lex Luthor thing, you said that was total BS. Now, in recent months, there was talk that you were up for Professor X in X-Men. Are you willing to say that you did meet with Marvel, those folks? Were you interested?

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Um, um.

• 42:35Josh Horowitz?

  No, now I got him. I got him on the spot.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  No, I don't. I don't. I don't like. I didn't read any scripts. Um, um, it's Jake, right?

• 42:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Directing it. Jake Ryder. And I, um, I had a meeting with him.

• 42:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  And I liked him. Um, um, but, um, but no, I haven't. It hasn't been close on, on like, uh, on a big, uh, do you feel like you had like a big part of your audience is like Marvel and comic books?

• 43:04Josh Horowitz?

  And? Yes, and?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Cause those, those become the little YouTube clickbait things.

• 43:09Josh Horowitz?

  But here's what I'll say.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Bill Skarsgård talks about, talks about Joker.

• 43:15Josh Horowitz?

  But Bill is a big part of me, too.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Of course, of course.

• 43:18Josh Horowitz?

  I love it. I swear.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:20Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I love all the weird.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  What's a great, what's a great untapped sort of comic book we should, we should, we should, uh, we should get out there, you know, to make?

• 43:29Josh Horowitz?

  Have you thought about this? Has Team Skarsgård?

• 43:31Speaker 01

  I think that you, I think your knowledge with comic books is more extensive than mine. So like, is there, is there one that like, man, this one?

• 43:38Josh Horowitz?

  No, I don't know. I, I don't know. On the DC front, I don't know if you'd be right for this, that you know this character Booster Gold?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:45Josh Horowitz?

  He's like this, like suave, like asshole from the future that kind of comes back.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Suave asshole from the future.

• 43:52Josh Horowitz?

  Actually, now that, now that I think about it, you could be good.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:58Josh Horowitz?

  That's a character I just want to selfishly see, because I, I grew up really liking that character. And I know there are intentions to do that in the, in the gun universe. I don't know. I don't know what, what my dream is for you in that. And it's fine if you don't do that. Who cares? There's plenty of stuff, but?

• 44:09Speaker 01

  I thought the, the Constantine was cool. I had an idea that like me and Andy Machete should do a Constantine.

• 44:17Josh Horowitz?

  Wow, kicking Keanu out. How dare you?

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Oh, but I mean, he did a great one, but I mean, is he still?

• 44:22Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  I don't know. I just thought that it was like, okay, like to like blending.

• 44:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Like truly visual horror.

• 44:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  And superhero. It's like, that's, it's a cool.

• 44:32Josh Horowitz?

  And that does feel like the Venn diagram of Bill Skarsgård right there.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there you go.

• 44:37Josh Horowitz?

  There it is.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  That's your.

• 44:38Josh Horowitz?

  There's our headline.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  There's your headline.

• 44:41Josh Horowitz?

  I hope you know it comes from a legitimate place of interest.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Of course I do. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just kidding.

• 44:47Josh Horowitz?

  Back to dogs and cats. No, no. Um, are you, where are you at in terms of like, you know, we talked before about kind of like when you play one or two iconic baddies to reduce them to a level, then a lot of them come at you. Like, are you, are you, does it have to kind of reach a very high bar at this point for you to be intrigued by a quote unquote villain at this point? Having done both Nosferatu and Pennywise?

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Um.

• 45:13Josh Horowitz?

  Like, do you see a lot of those? A disproportionate amount of kind of like villain parts? Or what do you think?

• 45:18Speaker 01

  No, I, I, I, I don't think, or just my team as a firewall is just maybe just like.

• 45:25Josh Horowitz?

  Filter.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Filter them out like, um, but, um, yeah, I think that I, for a villain, it would have to be something that felt original to me, to that was something that I hadn't done before, you know?

• 45:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Like, um, um, there's not a lot of kind of like, uh,

• 45:50Speaker 01

  like creature, you know, there's not like, ah, give me a shot of Freddy Krueger, you know what I mean?

• 45:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Like, I don't.

• 45:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  And I feel kind of, I feel kind of spent with those things, you know? Um, um, and then, but there's villains could be really fun in different ways. And like, if there, if it's the right kind of, you know, you have one, which one?

• 46:10Josh Horowitz?

  Not a specific villain, but we've talked before, I know you love this, James Bond villain.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because they didn't call me about James Bond. I don't know what that was about, but like.

• 46:21Josh Horowitz?

  Don't take it the bad, in the bad direction.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Every, every Europe, every single British, Australian, but maybe they were like, we, we can't do a Swede for this guy.

• 46:28Josh Horowitz?

  He's too handsome.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  I didn't even, I didn't, I wasn't even thrown into the mix, you know? Come on, man.

• 46:33Josh Horowitz?

  No, but this is good. You don't want to be tied down to James Bond for 10, 15 years.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  That's right. You just want to go in and do a one.

• 46:39Josh Horowitz?

  Iconic.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  You know, Matt Mickelson villain. Yeah.

• 46:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Javier Bardem? Come on, man.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Javier Bardem. Oh, yeah.

• 46:45Josh Horowitz?

  Stroke a cat? You love cats.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  I love to stroke cats. That sounded weird.

• 46:50Josh Horowitz?

  I said that. I'm sorry for all of us.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I don't know. You know, like, it's not something that I'm actively sort of like looking for, but, but, but if it's the, again, it's like, if I feel compelled to do something.

• 47:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  And it's a weird thing. Like, a lot of people ask me, like, what goes into, like, picking your roles or whatever? And I don't really know how to say it, other than like, I feel drawn or compelled to like.

• 47:20Josh Horowitz?

  You know it when you see it.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's like something that you can't really, um, you know, um,

• 47:28Speaker 01

  put your words on it and like describe why it's happening. But I've also noticed that like, I don't want to become jaded where I'm like, all right, if only this paycheck like I want.

• 47:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  So, which means that like, I think I could probably go long stretches without working and just like waiting for.

• 47:45Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's okay, too.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Something to be compelling enough for me to work on.

• 47:48Josh Horowitz?

  You are working on. You sound, you sound excited about this. You're going to work with the great Hideo Kojima.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:54Josh Horowitz?

  Is that a big deal for you? I mean, I?

• 47:56Speaker 01

  That's a big deal.

• 47:56Josh Horowitz?

  You grew up with Hideo Kojima in your life? Like, you're a gamer to a degree? You were?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  No, like specifically the Metal Gear Solid games. Like, I played every single, at least the ones on platform, like, but, but starting from the, like, the ones on PlayStation one, all the way to, you know, um, the last one. So, and I was like, you know, very enamored by him and the sort of the mythology or like the sort of in the universes that he creates, but also the sort of mystique and allure about him as well.

• 48:28Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  I don't know. I was like, I was, I was really into it, uh, uh, growing up. So, um, and he is as close to a, um, I mean, he is an auteur, but he's a video game auteur. And like, he speaks, he speaks fluent, he's fluent in filmmaking and film and cinema.

• 48:46Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, he's always like on social media talking about films.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 48:49Josh Horowitz?

  Clearly, that's.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Of course. And, um, and I think at this point, you know, because I, I remember at one point, like, you know,

• 49:00Speaker 01

  way back, 20 years ago, there was like talk, okay, okay, they're doing a Metal Gear Solid movie. And like, is he gonna, he gonna direct it? And it was like, okay, like, of course, like, I can't wait to see him transition into film. And now it's gotten to the point where it's like, I asked him, I'm like, would you ever do a film? And, and, and he's like, he's like, no, like, at this point, what he's doing. It's like, he's inventing a new medium.

• 49:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  You know, and it is film. It's like, what we're gonna do is gonna be eight hours worth of, of narrative.

• 49:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  But it's also an entire, entire universe that you play, you know? And then, uh, uh, and, and, so it's, it's, and it's truly is quite literally world building, you know? But, but, and now with technology, we're getting closer and closer to something that's photo realistic as your, but it's also interactive when you play it. Um, I think he's a pioneer and he, and he keeps, you know, uh, going out to, to, um, untreaded waters, you know?

• 50:07Josh Horowitz?

  Will this be like performance capture, I assume? Is that like the nature of it?

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:11Josh Horowitz?

  First time doing that, I guess, or?

• 50:13Speaker 01

  I.

• 50:13Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe a little for it.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  I, yeah, and I've experienced, you know, and I've done some.

• 50:17Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, you did for Eternals as well, right?

• 50:18Speaker 01

  For Eternals and I've done, um, I've worked with this company called Goodbye Kansas that, that do a lot of, um, um, video games and, and cinematic trailers and stuff like that. They're, they have a great, um, motion capture studio around the corner from where I live in Stockholm.

• 50:37Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, cool.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Um, so I've been there quite a few times, uh, and familiarized myself with, with the thing. Yeah.

• 50:43Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember, by the way, the name of your character in either Eternals or Deadpool two?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Crow?

• 50:50Josh Horowitz?

  Good.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Zeitgeist.

• 50:53Josh Horowitz?

  You passed the test. Are either or both of them coming back for Secret Wars?

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's your answer.

• 51:04Josh Horowitz?

  Should I hold my breath?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Shouldn't hold your breath for for sight guys. Yeah.

• 51:09Josh Horowitz?

  Am I any closer to seeing you and Alex collaborate on a film? I would think by now where you you both are so established, like early on, you don't want to kind of like feel like you're running the coattails or whatever, but like all of the Fannings, they're finally collaborating, you know? Are we are we going to get that? Have you guys talked about it actively in more in recent years or?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  I would love to. And we're always like, oh, wouldn't it be fun? You know? And then, you know, everybody's just, but I would love to. I would love to work with Alex. I would love to work with all of my brothers. I would love to work with with Gustav, um, um, Falter, Stellan, everybody. You know, I directed a short film where I got to direct Stellan and Gustav. So, and that was like such a joy.

• 51:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Truly a joy. It's on YouTube. It's called Soul of a Man. Go check it out.

• 52:01Josh Horowitz?

  We will. How exciting was it to see your dad go through all that? I mean, the justifiable accolades he got for sentimental value.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Losing an Oscar?

• 52:10Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, come on. I was I was team sentimental value. I was along that ride. Don't look at me.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it was it was it was in all honesty, I mean, it was great. It was fantastic. You know, I think I think the movies, I love that movie. I thought it was extraordinary and all the performances, you know, it was fantastic in it. And and it was just nice to see, you know, to see Stellan like have such a like a like a powerful, but also so subtle performance, you know? I mean, that that was it was all about subtext and and and and and what's behind the lines and between the lines, you know? It was such a beautiful portrayal from all the actors in that film. So so it was great.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  And it was just great to see my dad after, you know, he suffered a stroke, to have that kind of victory lap and a mountain that he climbed, you know, climb climb back from from from from from that and and and reaching that level of success is is is great. But, you know, it's great.

• 53:27Josh Horowitz?

  No buts, just great. It's all good.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Of course, it's great, but it's also at the same time, it's like it's it's.

• 53:32Josh Horowitz?

  No, that's.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Like.

• 53:34Josh Horowitz?

  I don't, I mean, I'm sure it was a good performance. I don't remember what won last year, to be honest, against him. We don't need to call it out.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Sean Penn.

• 53:41Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, who?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Sean Penn?

• 53:43Josh Horowitz?

  Sean Penn.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:45Josh Horowitz?

  He already won like two already. Was that his third?

• 53:47Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 53:48Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I love Sean Penn, but yeah, okay, whatever. It's fine. Everybody's fine.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Everybody's fine.

• 53:53Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I'm going to let you go. We've done profoundly random questions before. Some you've answered, some you haven't. Let's see, you collecting anything nowadays?

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Hmm, no.

• 54:05Josh Horowitz?

  That's fine. That's fine. What's the wallpaper on your phone currently?

• 54:15Speaker 01

  It's it's.

• 54:17Josh Horowitz?

  It'd be vague.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  It's a it's a footprint in the sand and one's mine and one's my daughter's.

• 54:27Josh Horowitz?

  Very sweet. Still being mistaken for anybody? Dads, brothers, other people?

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Mistaken? Yeah, I'm sure, you know, I don't really keep track.

• 54:45Josh Horowitz?

  I do. I keep a running list. Any recent bad notes a director has given you? Pete must have some interesting notes. Is he like, is he on the bullhorn? Is he screaming something crazy?

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 54:59Josh Horowitz?

  He's one of those.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  For sure. I don't believe you.

• 55:03Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really? That's amazing. That's kind of good. Is that good motivation? Be better.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. You suck. Um, a bad note, yeah, god damn it, I'm trying. Completely blanking.

• 55:23Josh Horowitz?

  That's you're fine.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  I guess I think, I mean, I'm just reiterating what I answered before about the about the like trying to know, like pretending to know what the scene is before you get to practice it, you know, as a performer.

• 55:40Josh Horowitz?

  You can probably also.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Really note.

• 55:43Josh Horowitz?

  You probably also have a good BS detector at this point, having done this a while where you're like, oh, this person's just fronting.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and hopefully I try to like to to to BS detect them before I say yes to a job at this point.

• 55:58Josh Horowitz?

  Let's have a coffee. Let's just.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, just go like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, dodged this bullet, you know?

• 56:05Josh Horowitz?

  You didn't dodge the happy, sad, confused bullet. You came, you embraced it, you ran to the flame.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Hey, man, I'm here for you.

• 56:11Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate you.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  I'm here for you, Josh. I love you, man.

• 56:14Josh Horowitz?

  I love you. I know there's some.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  I know I'm not your favorite scars guard, but but.

• 56:17Josh Horowitz?

  There was an audience, there was pressure. What was I supposed to say?

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Man, I mean, who was who was here first? Was it Alex or me?

• 56:23Josh Horowitz?

  It was Alex.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Was Alex first on the podcast before me?

• 56:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Can we fact check this, please?

• 56:28Josh Horowitz?

  It's true. It's just inarguable. I'm sorry.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  All right, well, sloppy seconds, I guess.

• 56:33Josh Horowitz?

  But you are making more than making up for it. I adore you. I appreciate the the sexual tension we have together.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 56:41Josh Horowitz?

  It's palpable.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's palpable.

• 56:43Josh Horowitz?

  And on to the fifth five timer club, you're two away from a hat.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Okay, I get a hat then?

• 56:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you get a hat.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Okay, all right. So I see you shortly.

• 56:51Josh Horowitz?

  Good to see you, buddy. Appreciate you.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  Appreciate it. Thanks, man.

• 56:57Speaker 06

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 57:16Speaker 05

  Do you ever watch a TV show set in a historical time period and think, how accurate is this really? But also, does it matter if it's accurate or not?

• 57:25Speaker 06

  Nefertv is a new podcast about shows set in ancient times. This season, we're recapping every episode of the show Spartacus: Blood and Sand.

• 57:36Speaker 05

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• 57:40Speaker 06

  And I'm Gina Berry, and I have watched this show maybe too many times.

• 57:44Speaker 05

  Join us every other Monday on the Nefertv podcast as we discuss the real history behind Spartacus: Blood and Sand.

• 57:51Speaker 06

  Follow Nefertv, that's N-E-F-E-R-T-V, wherever you get your podcasts.