5 Reasons to Change Your Mind

In this episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, you'll hear an old conversation between my team and I - Katie, Andy K, Brandon, Stefan, Tyler, India, Alex, AJ, Ryan, Mark, Claude and others - on why changing your mind is the ultimate strength. I share the moments I flipped from cards to toys and back to cards, why I passed on Uber, and why chaos is my happy place. I also discuss why fast decisions aren't reckless, why growth is changing your mind, and why indecisiveness is the real enemy. You'll learn about: • Why Changing Your Mind Is Strength • Instinct and Being Okay Being Wrong • Chaos and Speed as Assets • The Cards, Toys, and Uber Stories • Being the Bigger Person as Leadership

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  You know, there's a great Russian saying that says, "Man thinks and God laughs."

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Like, as a true operator, I think about this a lot. If you actually recognize how much is out of your control,

• 0:18Speaker 00

  the weight of your decisions dramatically decreases. People fear changing their mind out of judgment.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  How do you pull out of that decision? Like, if you're...

• 0:26Speaker 00

  Stop worrying about other people's opinions. So many of you have become non-change-your-minders because you're worried about other people's opinions. You must deconstruct this because changing your mind is the ultimate strength.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  Gary changed his mind on wine content. Gary changed his mind on Zoom calls.

• 0:55Speaker 03

  On numerous hires.

• 0:56Speaker 04

  On media. On fitness.

• 0:58Speaker 05

  On daily vlogging. On using AirPods. My career.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  On Uber. On Cam. Laptops. LinkedIn. Gary changes his mind every day.

• 1:07Speaker 06

  Hey, guys, I'm Katie. I'm Gary's Influencer Partnerships Manager. In this film, we're trying something different. We interviewed a variety of people in Gary's world from the time when he sold baseball cards to the present. What we'll learn here is how changing direction played such a big role in Gary's success and how it affected people around him. First, we'll take it to the early days of Gary's personal brand in 2016 with Sid.

• 1:29Speaker 07

  My first role on the team was an intern. I was a summer intern on Team Gary Vee in 2015, and I was really observing everything around, everything that Gary was making decisions with, like how he was acting, how he was communicating with his employees and everything. So one of the really big moments for me was when I realized that he was always all-in and at the same time, he was always ready to say that he was wrong and wanted to really pivot. And that's why I asked him this question on the Ask Gary Vee show. I've seen you go all-in when you're, like, doing something, but then we also, as a team, have seen that you step back and see things in a wider perspective, and then you change direction.

• 2:13Speaker 07

  So how do you decide when it's like moment to just step back and reconsider?

• 2:19Speaker 00

  This question is the same question of, like...

• 2:23Speaker 00

  You know, like, how do you know when to hit the high note? Like, when do you know it's game time and you've got to shoot and stop passing the ball?

• 2:30Speaker 07

  His summary of the answer was really that it's a very instinctive thing, and it's literally something that you're born with, and it's not something you can teach someone. So, in his words, it's literally something that you're born with, and that's how you just react to instincts. And that's why some people are successful, some people aren't, because even though you're reacting to these instincts, and this is more of my understanding of his version, even though you're reacting to instincts, there are a lot of people that are not comfortable or insecure enough to like not to be wrong. And that's where like they start questioning their instincts. And that's where things really change for some of the people.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  I fail every day. Like, the amount of things that I make decisions on that don't work out are every day. I think one of the great ways to tell the difference between a winning entrepreneur and a losing entrepreneur is how much they enjoy losing.

• 3:21Speaker 06

  What Sid observed is that Gary's ability to change comes from an instinct he was born with. But can this be learned?

• 3:29Speaker 05

  My name is Andy Kranek. I'm Gary Vaynerchuk's brand director.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  Andy K, get up here, right here. I got you, I see you. Andy's live streaming and he's struggling. Let's give it up for Andy K.

• 3:40Speaker 05

  I think like the hardest change for a lot of people is actually just like a mindset change, you know? So many people don't want to post a lot of content. They just always default into no. So many people think that TikTok doesn't matter, that it's still for young kids, you know? And like, I don't think of the change there being like, oh, you're gonna go from not posting on TikTok to posting on TikTok. I think the change that Gary really is trying to empower in millions of people and on his team and in the organization and in his content is the change of saying yes.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  While everybody's spending 80 hours trying to figure out the plan of how to get on the six things, you're just doing, staying active, right?

• 4:22Speaker 00

  Just say yes. Everybody's saying no. Everybody's saying no to shit. Cause they think they're being thoughtful. Or they're smart. Like, you know how many people are saying no? That aren't even fancy enough to say yes yet? So, I just say yes, man, a lot.

• 4:38Speaker 05

  The change of saying yes to opportunities. The change of saying yes to what happens when you publish and you start learning new muscles. Um, and I, that's really what I challenge myself off of when I listen to Gary's content about changing. Is not drawing lines in the sand for whatever the case may be. To being open to the other side of the equation and feeling what that looks like.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Everybody's so crippled by decisions. But you never know how the other thing worked out. Let me give you an example. Let's say you don't go to college. And you start this business and you were a hundred percent right. And it's huge and you're doing so great. But because you did that, you had to fly to America for a big meeting and your plane crashed and you died.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  That would be a bad idea. Yeah. Or, you think you're gonna go to college because it's a good experience and you'll meet people? You can meet people in a business. You're not gonna know.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  You know, I think people are crippled by change because they feel like they make a decision and that's it for the rest of their life. But, you can decide tomorrow to be an actor and the next day decide you wanna be a rapper and the other day decide you wanna be a TikToker. I think all are cool and interesting ideas as long as you're being honest with yourself and you're willing to put in the work on the changes that you say you're gonna make happen.

• 5:49Speaker 00

  Most people fear changing their mind because they're worried about what people will judge them for. When just a year ago, they said, "I'm gonna be a fitness coach." And then nine months later, they're selling pizzas and everyone's like, "Oh, you're full of shit." And, and it's not about being full of shit, it's you fucking changed your mind.

• 6:07Speaker 06

  Gary often makes decisions predicated on his morals and values. So let's see how that translates to his business life.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  One thing Gary, I noticed, he's not afraid to walk away from something that challenges his values. Like, if somebody is gonna ask them to do something, like, he's not afraid to change his mind if it challenges his values.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  I spend no time convincing people to believe in what I believe in.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  So, for me and my job as new business development hat, there might be a client that might be a great, like, opportunity. But if it doesn't, if it, if it's, if it's taking us down a path to do something that's not something we would do, but what they want. He, it's no brainer for him to walk away from that.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  I like to say yes to everything, but there are absolutely moral or concerns. There's entire business concepts that I'm just uncomfortable with. I think everybody should walk away from certain business based on their moral compass and opportunity costs.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  But what I think he really understands is that when you change your mind, that means that you're willing to hear somebody. And Gary, for being somebody who is one of the loudest speakers I know, and obviously produces so much content to get his own message out, is secretly the best listener. And I think a lot of people don't give him credit for that.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  I'm a full-time listener. Everybody thinks I talk all the time. All I'm doing is listening. The biggest reason I talk so much is to get reactions from you, whether one-on-one, you in an audience like this, or the whole fucking world when I do content. I talk so much strategically to get reactions so I can listen, so I can readjust.

• 7:43Speaker 07

  And it's not just, it's not just hearing, it's listening, which is the major difference that where you'll see people, we all know people like this, that you're in a meeting and somebody's just, they're hearing what you have to say, but they're just waiting until they have the opportunity to talk next. Where with Gary, it's listening, absorbing, connecting dots, figuring things out, and then bringing his point, which you always, you don't always get with when you're watching his blog, or he'll say it, so I'll say it on AskGaryVee when he's got guests, and sometimes he's talking over them and stuff, so.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  No, no, I apologize to interrupt, but I have to ask you this in question. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Let me interrupt, I apologize. It's the name of the show. Thank you very much.

• 8:27Speaker 07

  And not something that you would think from watching him, but knowing him personally and being in meetings with him and getting to know him so well, he is, he's an incredible listener, and it's something that I really admire about him.

• 8:38Speaker 06

  Everybody has a story. In chapter two, let's take this back to Gary's best friend, Brandon.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Literally, I'm doing what I did when I was 16 years old with this guy, my best friend Brandon. We were, and my, we're literally doing a show. Like in an uncomfortable... Like, can I muster up the courage to quit everything I'm doing and only be a baseball card dealer? Like, that much fun.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  My name is Brandon Markie. I met Gary on my first day of high school in 1990. We developed a pretty quick friendship. Currently, I'm running the operations at Wine Library. And doing a lot of the buying and sales, as well as just, you know, day-to-day operations. Kind of the stuff that Gary was doing here, before he moved on to intermedia. Gary and I, our friendship really was built on baseball cards. It was built on the fact that we both loved to... We both loved to buy and sell. That was number one. And we both loved baseball cards, so it was like the perfect, you know, the perfect combo. And so, for years, that's, you know, that's all that we did. And it was, it was a real passion. We had a great time.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  There are memories that, you know, are irreplaceable and, and, and, um, just unbelievable times.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  At 11 and 12, I was already going to malls and hotels and selling baseball cards at shows. When I was 11 and 12, I was making a thousand dollars a weekend selling baseball cards. How? I had no money. My parents had no money. What did I do? When it snowed, I went to people's houses, rang their doorbell, and asked them to give me a dollar to five dollars to shovel their yard. And they said yes. And then I worked for 30 minutes, shoveled somebody's yard, got five bucks. Or, in the summer, I got lemonade. I set up, I did a lemonade stand. Like, I did things. I didn't have the internet.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  But there came a point, you know, towards the end of our, our high school days, you know, really our junior, I guess the end of our junior year, beginning of senior year, where the whole baseball card market was just drowning. And it just wasn't, wasn't very popular. And slowly but surely, during the card shows we would do, there would be some dealers that would set up, and they'd have half a table of cards, and then half a table of comics and toys. So there was definitely a shift in the market. And Gary saw it. And, you know, despite his real love for baseball cards, he was, he was very ready to pivot to wherever the market was going. And at that point, the market was going to toys. And so, you know, I remember the very last card show I ever did. I was already kind of burnt out. I was already kind of done.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  I just, I was spending a lot of money, not getting any in return. The card, the value was worthless, it seemed. And we did this last show. Which was in Hillsborough, uh, Hillsborough, New Jersey. And I went to the show and I walked in and Gary was there and his entire table was full of toys. No cards at all, just all toys.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  I didn't tell Brandon that I had this strategy. He's setting up his cards. I start opening up these big boxes and start putting out Wizard of Oz and Catwoman toys. Brandon, you gotta say, we're juniors in high school. Brandon looks over and I goes, "I'm done."

• 11:52Speaker 03

  And I remember walking up and I looked at him and I said, "What is, what is this?" And I was kind of upset because deep down I knew that was it. It was over. Like the baseball cards between us were done. The whole industry was dying. And he goes, he goes, "We're gonna sell a ton of toys today." And I said, "Not me." And I, I left. I just, I, I was not, I couldn't do it.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  I go, "This is the future." I mean, I literally was a nerd cult. I mean, I nailed that. Like in hindsight, I fucking nailed it. As a step, nobody thought about Marvel movies and Star Wars. I fucking nailed it.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  I just, I couldn't, I couldn't change my mind in that moment, but Gary sure did. Uh, and, uh, and the rest is history. They went on and he, he did toys, which is where the market was for, for quite a while. Only now with the last three years, as you guys well know, to come full circle back into cards where now it seems cards are the hottest thing going. I mean, it's just, it's unbelievable. So that was from cards, all in on cards, then all in on toys, and then all back in on cards.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  I believe we're on the, we're in the second quarter or four quarters of the sports card industry exploding again in culture. And I think there's a ton of money and a lot of fun to be made for a lot of entrepreneurs, kids, especially sneaker kids who can't get enough inventory of hard to get sneakers. But if they want to go buy 5,000 Yanis rookies or 400 Darko rookies, they can. And so I'm excited because it's something I love, something I understand, but I'm in a new era in my life. It's not about the million dollars that I'll make in flipping cards in the next three years, and I will. It's about, it's about... You know, the tens of thousands of kids that I'm gonna impact,

• 13:46Speaker 00

  who are gonna make a hundred thousand bucks in profit in the next two years, instead of raising a million dollars and losing it. And that I'm excited about. I'm excited about pushing people and teaching them how to make money, instead of raising money. And raising money has become the sport of entrepreneurship in this era, not making it, and it's something that I'm trying to bring conversation to.

• 14:08Speaker 06

  So, are you guys flipping cards too? Throughout his career, Gary often made pivots. But then he started VaynerMedia, which then led him to go all in on his personal brand in 2014.

• 14:19Speaker 05

  My name is Stephon. I've been at VaynerMedia since November 2014, I believe. And during that time, I've started out on Gary's team, working on Team Gary with D-Rock, when it was just me and him pumping out videos. And I've since then transitioned to VaynerTalent, which is basically what I was doing for Gary, what the team was doing for Gary. We do for other people who want to build their personal brand.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  By the way, Stephon, let's show Stephon.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  Trying to get some ladies out of this?

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Why not? This is so ridiculous.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  This is so ridiculous. Get down here, Stephon, I want you to work with me.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  I mean, I think one of the things that you learn early on, being on Gary's team, is to not be comfortable doing the same thing all the time. That like, you know, starting out, it was AskGaryVee, then it moved to DailyVee, then it was like, we just want a bunch of clips, just to put out clips. And then it was just like, just kind of always having to think about what was next. I mean, the good thing with Gary is that his mind was always there. So you were just kind of like, okay, cool. You try to get ahead of it, to try to present him with stuff. But you learn pretty early on that like, there's always going to be what's next, which kind of made you comfortable with just kind of always being on Gary's team. Always being ready to adapt and do something new and to not get stagnant and not get comfortable doing the day to day stuff.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Like, it's so obvious to me what's gonna happen with Daily V and Snapchat. Like, our execution these next 12 months is gonna be, it's gonna be so fucking crazy.

• 15:49Speaker 05

  You know, I thought that Daily V was just gonna be like a name, not like we're gonna do it, it's gonna be like a daily V, just kinda like more frequent, like not necessarily a daily V. So when it was happening, you know, so you know, D-Rock was pretty much responsible for shooting it all and then turning it around. And then, so you know, that responsibility kinda shifted to me too. It's kinda, you know, D-Rock was shooting and I edited. Uh, and it was, in the beginning, it's like, oh, this is like a real thing. This is not, this ain't no joke. This doesn't, this isn't just something you do in a, you know, a couple hours because these daily Vs weren't two and three minutes long.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  This, uh, this daily vlog is gonna be such a big deal. Why you hit that? Oh, you're, haha, just, just put that part there.

• 16:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was definitely like a, a transition. It was just like, oh, like, it was a little jarring at first, but then just like anything else, you figure out the cadence, you figure out how to make it work. And then you get into that flow and then you just get it done until he changes up the format again and then you're like doing it all over again. But it's just like, you kinda get comfortable with the change, you know?

• 16:54Speaker 06

  Being comfortable with change is not always easy. Let's take it over to Tyler Babin and hear why he made the change to leave VaynerMedia.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  My name is Tyler Babin. I worked on Team Gary for about three and a half years total. Started in, uh, May of 2016. Was a big editor for just Instagram and Facebook clips and then D-Rock and I ended up alternating days and we were both traveling all over the place filming Daily V. And then I left that position about a year ago to kinda just go out and do my own thing.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  I'm gonna miss you, bro.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  I'm missing you, man. A lot.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Super surreal. I'm really happy though for you, man.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  I appreciate it.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  I really feel good about it.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. It is, it feels like, like the right move right now.

• 17:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's the right sentence, the right move right now.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  There was a video that I made at one point, um, it's called 99% Happy and Gary had, had done a whole speech where he said he was 99%

• 17:47Speaker 07

  unhappy in his life and 1% being unhappy made him literally change everything.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  On my 30th birthday, I was driving from New York to New Jersey to the store and realized I was only 99% happy. That 1% made me change my entire life. Hey everybody, I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. If you're not 100% pumped every second, if you actually are happy it's the weekend, or are pumped to go on vacation, your shit is broken.

• 18:23Speaker 07

  And I felt myself creeping way above 1% of my life being unhappy. And I said, alright, cool. It's just like, it's time to leave and do something else. And I knew that I had built up enough equity and enough relationships that I wasn't, no matter what happened, like I didn't think I would ever leave on bad terms and I don't think I'm on bad terms with anyone in that building. And so for me, being able to like step away and just say like, you know what? I need to like feed my soul for a while and do the things that are on my mind is really important. And so I think that there's never a wrong thing with realizing, once you have the thing you wanted so badly, that you can change your mind and go a different route. Like anything, nothing's permanent. You can always go backwards and you can, like, life is not a linear thing. You can move up and down and like go different directions.

• 19:08Speaker 07

  And so just being willing to embrace that, I think, is where you will find like actual true happiness.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  I always play this out. Let's say when you go to heaven, they can show you what would have happened, because that's the only way you'd ever see it. Let's just say, what people don't understand is, oh, Vasha, you made the wrong call. You should have went to grad school instead of that opportunity, or this company instead of that company. But you'll never believe it. If you would have went there, you would have excelled. You should have went to VaynerMedia, not there. But it's terrible. You actually went to Vayner and it was perfect and you rose like a phoenix and you were the head of all sound and everything went great. But then you had to go to Virginia on business and you got hit by a car and you died at 31. So to like look at two ideas and think you can practically make a good decision is laughable.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  Literally flip a coin. Just pick the one that feels better right that second and make it about you. Because usually what kids struggle with is the decision they want to do. Versus the decision that they think they're supposed to do based on the other voices.

• 20:11Speaker 06

  Do you remember India from the Ask Gary Vee Show? She's going to talk about her relationship with Gary. So, let's see her side of the story.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  India?

• 20:20Speaker 00

  I think it's time to get into the sh- show. Let's get into the show. India, wait a minute, how do we not talk about this? Because we talked about it in real life. You know, VaynerNation, look at this. I mean, India, I mean, you know. Talk about kissing up to the boss, Don Warren.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  My name is India. I worked at VaynerMedia from 2012 until August, very recently, August 2019. I started as a community manager in 2012 and worked my way through a bunch of different roles at the company, but got to work with Gary for a few years as his producer and copywriter. And then, just before I left the company, I was working on VaynerTalent as a creative producer. One big thing that's very personal to me that I changed about myself working for Gary was my confidence, just in the workplace, and being able to sit in a room as a woman, working with a lot of men, and state my opinion and stated very strongly and be confident in my own abilities. I think that's something that I really struggled with.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  You know, Vayner was my first professional job out of college, so I learned a lot working there and I learned a lot of really important skills, but that was one that I didn't really totally develop until I was working directly for Gary.

• 21:43Speaker 00

  Here, zoom in to my ear, right? You know, the ear is the key in this scenario, because the truth is, the way to push somebody above their limits is to actually have individual conversations with them about what is their holy, you know, grail, right? Like, what do they want to accomplish? Like, India and I, I have a good feel of some of India's long-term career ambitions. And like, that gives me, first of all, her knowing that we've even had that conversation in and itself gives her a little bit more confidence to work harder, because she's trying to get what She wants out of it professionally and knowing that I'm the person that could most likely make that happen, at least in the context of this world, that just even having the conversation puts her in a better spot.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  One of the meetings I had with Gary a little bit first times I talked to him one-on-one, I was like, you know, I didn't study marketing in school, I studied painting. And he was like, I didn't study marketing in school either, you know. And I think he really helped me change my mindset about that and realize that it doesn't really matter, you know, what you did before, and you just have to focus on what you do want to do right now and move ahead with that. There's nothing you should do. Yeah. You need to focus on what you want to do. Yeah, yeah. Just because somebody else says it's good, you know what I mean? Yeah. What you should do is look yourself in the mirror and say, what do I think I'm decent at? And what do I like? And do one of those. And if you're lucky enough that what you're good at, you like, then it's really fucking the moon.

• 23:07Speaker 06

  If you shoot for the moon, you'll land among the stars. So here's Alex, Gary's executive assistant for the last two and a half years. She's going to share her perspective on adapting to the current task at hand.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  Vayner Nation, Alex is here. Alex, Alex R. Alex?

• 23:22Speaker 02

  I'm Alex Raffington. I started Vayner August of 2016. I started working for the office team at the front desk. I had a friend that actually worked at Vayner and I kind of wanted to get into the agency side. And I used to work at a bakery previously. And I kind of like fall into that rut of just working somewhere for so long and not actually like kind of going for the job you actually want. And he was like, this is maybe like a good first step for you. So I started on the office team. I worked there for about almost a year and a half. And then talked to Tyler. He was assistant at the time and he definitely needed some help. And then I moved up on Team Gary and moved into the

• 24:05Speaker 02

  spot of being Gary's assistant as well. So I've been working that for two and a half years.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  I adore Alex, right? I'm looking right at her. In the last week or two, there's things that I've told her that I want done better. And I hope she would tell you that I'm not yelling. I'm like trying to deliver with honey, like, right? Even when you agree when I come with you with something, I'm almost being a little passive.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Being an admin comes with structure and process. And that's a part of like being an admin. But just know that if you have to pivot, that's okay. Or if the...

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Kind of if the the structure that you created for yourself is too rigid, then just just back away a little bit and you know just know that it's okay if something doesn't work anymore and you have to pivot. It's not that you're not a good admin or you're not working to your full potential. It's just that things just change.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  The game is changing quickly and often. And if you're not adjusting, you're gonna lose. The you know, the 85 bears won on a system that doesn't work in today's NFL. So you just gotta keep evolving. And if you don't, you lose. And that's the evolution of my game. So advice that I gave in Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook would look differently today about Twitter. Because between the time I wrote it and this minute, the game has changed.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  So just know that it's okay to change. It's okay to kind of move things around, but also ask questions. That's the best thing for you to do is ask questions. You know, so then you can make the best decision going forward.

• 25:40Speaker 00

  We change our mind seven times a month. I constantly shit on my own self once a week. Like I emphatically on Monday say, it's all about this. And literally next Tuesday go, if we ever do that again, we're fit. I mean, this is real life. This is the truth.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  You know, we always joke like the admins, a lot of times he'll come up. You know, we'll get on the phone and he'll be like, new rule, new rule, new rule, new rule. And like, it's like a big kind of thing.

• 26:07Speaker 00

  Can you text Tyler and say, new rule? I'm being dead serious. New rule. Here's literally how we're gonna do it. New rule, no more.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  And then three days later, you know, something comes up that proves that it wasn't that smart. And yeah, we don't need that new rule anymore. And most people are like, you know, it it gets, there's some fatigue to it. But only if you put so much weight into like the rigidness of systems and processes. I always say that process and systems are there.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  To take thought out of things. And the second I get too habitually ingrained into process, how you take notes, how you do your to do list, how you organize your email inbox. Like, there's efficiency to it, but at the same time, once you rely on the process over the thought, you just become, you know, attached to the process. Takes a lot of thinking out of the situation, creativity out of the situation. You better keep your subjectiveness and your ego at the door because that slows you down and it doesn't make you do. You better fucking move. So I'm always, once I get too close to just like relying on the process,

• 27:18Speaker 06

  I try and break it and change it up. If you're relying on the process and having a tough time accepting the change mentality, what you will discover is that most systems will get broken as well as other projects along the way. Let's hear one of the most recent stories about how we went all in on a project.

• 27:34Speaker 05

  I'll laugh and think about the moment that we pitched him on Interrupted by Gary Vee as a new show and format. And we spent a lot of time on thoughtful designs and positioning on that new show. And we did one episode and he decided he didn't want to do anymore.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  I'm changing the name of Interrupted By. Yeah, because I just like reading the comments. I just don't, I think it triples down on something I don't want it to. So the reality is, is that show's now canceled.

• 27:59Speaker 05

  I think that's just a great example. He could have continued to do it because we put this emphasis on it, but he intuitively felt like it wasn't the right thing to do for his brand. So he stopped it. And I think our team does a great job on being unemotional about those changes and continuing to learn and evolve.

• 28:15Speaker 00

  Unemotional decision making is what has allowed me the great luxury of standing at this table. I, it's not a table, fuck.

• 28:26Speaker 00

  I'm comfortable in chaos. That's my happy place. Uh, I always, people are like, how don't you drop balls? I'm like, I drop a shitload of balls.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  Except, I'm, some people like to have two balls in the air and not drop them. I like to have 73 and drop 13. I like the net of that. My dad used to get so pissed when I was building Wine Library. He would always be like, "Fuck", he's like, he would say like, "Three months ago, you said Ricky was gonna be the best employee." I'm like, "I changed my mind. He's shit. Fire him." Or, or, he's like, "You said sparkling wine was important, now you just eliminated it from the key spot." I'm like, "I changed my mind." Like, my ability to only be comfortable in massive chaos has been my biggest asset as an entrepreneur.

• 29:05Speaker 03

  I was about as far as you could be down the process of moving to London with Eric Fullwiler to help open our office there. And we were in the office, I think it was like about a month away to move. And that's a pretty big move. I was 25 at the time, 24, 25. I was getting ready to move over to London with a team of five. And Gary just calls me into the office and asks if I want to be his assistant. And it was like, kinda like, "Well, aren't I doing this?" And he's like, "Well,

• 29:41Speaker 03

  it doesn't have any impact", like, meaning, "Yes, but this is something new, and new information, and a new situation, and new data." And the, the not, um, not necessarily not taking into account, but not letting just because that is the case affect that aspect of taking that role, was the first, like, real eye-opening thing.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  And you don't feel, you don't think twice or feel bad about it, something like that?

• 30:10Speaker 00

  No, because when I make decisions, I'm making them at that moment, and things change. If I email my direct reports, my leaders tomorrow and said, "We're now selling actual honey." Like, "We are no longer an agency. We now produce honey." "I just bought a honey farm and, and, you know, Paso Robles, and, and we now sell honey." And I just think 80% of them would be like, "Okay, like, what, what am I doing?" Like, like, "Yes, yes, comma." So when you build culture, and you build trust, you can go fast.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  And so, when you put a plan in place, if you're a leader and you say, "We're gonna do this", and everyone says, "Cool, I'm ready to go", and then you realize that that isn't the right thing. Most people are probably scared that people are gonna judge them as a flip-flopping leader if they believe that that then is the right thing.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Be binary about your decisions. Let me tell you what I mean by that. Don't overthink jumping into your first job and then quit it the next day if it doesn't feel right. It's not an end-all be-all if the first one's not right. That doesn't mean you can't be thoughtful along the way. Right? It doesn't mean that you can make a decision, you're doing it, and then a couple of weeks in, even though three weeks earlier it seems so right, you're like, "Wait a minute, this feels like a waste of time." And then even if you declare to your whole world that you're doing this, people fear changing their mind out of judgment.

• 31:30Speaker 03

  And then you start to go down a path that just gets too caught up, where you're too far away from being able to say, "Actually, no, this is the right thing." I've been presented with new information, new data, and I'm making this decision. And, you know, communication goes into a lot of that, but there's this kind of... It's happening right now, like, are we supposed to do what's best for us first? Or best for other people even if it's at the detriment of our own self?

• 32:00Speaker 06

  Though it seems like the ability to change your mind is instilled at birth, this is something you need to work on. Let's hear from Gary's brother AJ on his mindset at an early age.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  I've actually really shifted. I think that I naturally, growing up, was a bit more focused and put a lot more energy and put a lot more stock into your original thought and opinion. And I thought that if you change your mind, then it just validated that your original opinion was wrong. And so because Gary is so willing and able to change his opinion and mine, I think there was, you know, Gary and I really don't have a lot of friction.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  AJ and I, because of our age difference, have almost a brother-father kind of thing going on that's very kind of unique and special. And we've been, we've met so many people that are 11 or 12 or nine or 10 years apart and don't have what we have. You know, it's tough. I mean, I was out of the house when he was seven. Right? And so it's just a very unique thing. We have a very, very, very special bond.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  We nearly never fight and have ever fought over business.

• 33:07Speaker 07

  We ever fight, it's over the silliest shit. It's stuff like board games and pickup basketball, right?

• 33:12Speaker 00

  I once punched my brother AJ on a basketball court, and I've never really said it, because I don't want to admit it actually happened.

• 33:19Speaker 07

  But when there was friction in the early days, was probably centered a little bit around the changing your mind concept. And I think what I struggled with the most was how

• 33:30Speaker 07

  constant it was and how effortless it was, right? It kind of almost, I think what I struggled with was it almost invalidated the original thought and made it really tough for me to accept and receive initial thoughts from Gary. He would say something, I'd be like, "Well, you're just gonna change your damn mind tomorrow." Like, why should I even receive this? Why should I take this seriously? But I think as I got more exposure and more experience to business and life and people, I grew to appreciate it a lot more. And I felt like I needed a shift. And it wasn't necessarily a conscious effort. I didn't say, "I need to be able to change my mind more." "I need to be able to change my mind more." I think it just came from experience.

• 34:13Speaker 07

  And I think it speaks a little bit to the idea of us starting businesses and things like that. And whether it's starting a business or starting an initiative within a company, I think that ultimately, if you fail or if something is inaccurate, it's okay as long as you adjust. And as long as you adjust towards the positive.

• 34:31Speaker 00

  This has been historic. Like, factories, factories had to adjust to machines. Farmers had to adjust to tractors. You know, retail stores had to adjust to registers that were computers versus cash. This is not complicated. This is historic. Here's the punchline. The market is the market. What is the 54-year-old gonna do? Adjust.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Real traders still hear the noise. They just know when to stop listening to it. Find and research opportunities to fit your strategy with Thinkorswim trading platforms from Schwab.

• 35:11Speaker 06

  Discover features like robust charting, nearly unlimited customization, and built-in risk management technology. Plus, get 24/7 support from real trading specialists. That's Schwab Trading. Learn more at schwab.com/trading.

• 35:26Speaker 06

  Or lose. Something Gary likes to say before giving advice is, "I never think I'm right." Because Gary knows he's just stating one man's opinion. In this next chapter, we're going to dive into different perspectives on the topic.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  Tell me how to save my life. Tell me how to save my life.

• 35:40Speaker 00

  I'm gonna tell you right now, look. I'm gonna tell you right now, my guy. So what's up with my partner, Ryan?

• 35:45Speaker 03

  How you doing? Ego is usually the driving force behind the deep desire to be right. Right? I have to be right. And they say like, be selective in your battles, but sometimes peace is better than being right. So if you have the ability to firmly believe something and recognize when you're wrong and admit it and implement change accordingly, it means you have macro strength, not micro stubbornness, so to say.

• 36:16Speaker 00

  People overthink it. And they have ego that I'm the only one that does it best and that nobody's ever good enough. Go within humility. Tell them the truth. Got you. And then if they don't deliver on it, fire. I've watched so many people that are great at their craft never build a business because of ego that they like feeling that they're better at this thing than anybody than actually scaling a business. Okay.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  You know, it's what I did essentially. Like, I was in finance. I worked for Goldman Sachs for seven years and then pivoted to be in media, but women's lifestyle media as a young male. And I was laughed at. You know, people definitely laughed behind my back being like, "What is this guy doing?"

• 36:59Speaker 03

  But I knew that, I just knew that I would not be happy being in the corporate America flywheel where it's not solely based on merit. And I wanted to be part of something that, what I put into it was hopefully what I got out of it. Or at least I sealed my own fate.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  Winning is happy. Not making more money because you focused only on the tech company. What are you trying to accomplish? And by the way, it's okay if that shit changes. You know, at 27, you might need money, or a boyfriend or a girlfriend. At 34, you might want to have more work-life balance because you have a child now. At 41, you might need more money because you wasted your money after you had a good... Like, it's okay for it to change daily.

• 37:46Speaker 03

  For me, when moving from finance to media, I convinced myself, whether it was true or not, that if I failed, that I can easily go back to finance. Even if I took one step back, I can go back to finance, get a job, get a salary. So I think that you need to think worst-case scenario, and are you okay financially? Are you okay with the lifestyle you might have to lead if you do fail entirely? Do you have a family? Do you have kids? Are you single? Are, you know, do you have dependents that you need to make a minimum amount of money in order to support those people? Because that might be a driving force behind taking a certain risk. So I don't think you should... I don't think... I'm not saying that

• 38:32Speaker 03

  you should do that to create fear in your mind, but you need to understand what your downside is, what your worst-case scenario is. And that will help you give you comfort. Because if you can convince yourself that you're okay with that downside, you're going to go all in and you're not going to look back.

• 38:48Speaker 06

  Gary likes to talk about how he missed out on investing in Uber during the angel round. What we haven't heard is AJ's side of the story. So let's take a look.

• 38:57Speaker 04

  You know, I guess, this is a fun example. You know, Gary and I had the opportunity to invest in the seed round in Uber. Gary talks about it all the time.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  My most devastating business decisions have been predicated at the moments when I bought my two homes. I passed... I've never said this this clearly. I passed on Uber because I bought an apartment. If I had just stayed in the apartment I was in for one more year, I would have $400 million. That I don't have right now. That's about as basic as I can say it.

• 39:29Speaker 04

  And then they reapproached us for the series B and they're like, come on guys, because these are personal friends. They're like, come on guys, like, I know you missed out on the seat, but it's been a little while. We have really good tracks. We would love to have you for the ride, right? And I think somebody that maybe would be too stuck in the mud would, uh, would cut their nose to spite their face, right? And not invest. But you know, Gary and I said, you know what? Let's keep our nose intact. Let's bite the bullet. Let's forget about our regret. Let's move forward. We don't want to regret twice. It's, you know, better late than never. And so we ended up investing in Uber in the series B and did really well because of it. Could have done better at the seed, but that's life. You take your losses along the way. The single biggest reason VaynerX got to where it got to, um, beyond Gary's brand equity and his

• 40:14Speaker 04

  salesmanship and his, and his public brand is our disproportionate willingness to communicate top down, right? And so, you know, spending the time and energy to talk to your executive team as well as your entry level employee that just started two weeks ago.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  It's about people. When you go from one to five locations, it's about people.

• 40:34Speaker 04

  And I think just having an authentic line of communication and an, and an open door policy that people actually believe to be true, um, is massively important when shifting through, um, change.

• 40:45Speaker 06

  Being the bigger person is not always the easiest thing to do. Let's hear from Mark Yudkin on how Gary shaped his perspective on this.

• 40:52Speaker 07

  I'm Mark Yudkin. I'm now Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel of all of VaynerX. Uh, I've known Gary for about 13 to 14 years now. Uh, I did a lot of his legal work as outside counsel before Vayner Media was formed. I did his, his investment work in Uber and Tumblr and Twitter and Facebook and all that stuff. So I was the lawyer for those deals. Um, so I've gotten pretty good insight into Gary for the last 13 or 14 years and it's been a fun ride. I tend to be, I tend to think I'm usually right because I usually am, but, uh, it's been harder for me to sometimes bite my lip and kind of be the bigger man and walk away, even though I know

• 41:35Speaker 07

  it's the right thing to do. Um, and I think he has taught me. That sometimes there's greater benefit to, even though you might be right, to just kind of walk away and be the bigger man in a situation because the benefits derived later on will far exceed the advantages now of saying, "Hey, I told you so," or "Hey, I'm right now in this particular case." So it's not a particular instance, but I definitely think it's a particular character trait that I, it was tough for me at first, but to realize that in the end, it's always better to be the bigger person.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  It's one of the things that I'm spending a lot of time on, one that a lot of people aren't capable of executing, which is how much better life is when you're the bigger man and woman in every situation. No matter if you're right or wrong, no matter what it is, are you capable of swallowing your pride and having the humility to say you're sorry even when maybe it wasn't yours to say you're sorry? Leadership and happiness really, really, really comes at the ability to focus on one move, which is can you be the bigger person? For example, being a good number 2, 3, 4 at VaynerMedia is pretty simple. Like, I'm going to care if you're capable of being the bigger person.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  Empathy, a leader that leads, positive energy. Like, you're not, like, you can sell a trillion dollars in my company. Like, if you're a dickface, you're gonna lose.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Changing your mind shows growth. Changing your mind shows vulnerability, and vulnerability is one of the strongest things that you can have these days. I mean, everybody is so guarded and so defensive. And, you know, I think right now especially, we're seeing a huge moment where a lot of people are being asked to change their mind. And you could say that it's, you know, one political extremist and you're trying to get them all the way to the other extreme, but it's not. You know, it's like people within even a small faction just asking for a little mindship. And I think that, you know, that shows, yeah, tremendous growth and an ability to really become malleable and allow yourself to be shaped by experiences, because we are shaped by our experiences. The person you are today is shaped by what you experienced before.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  So why shouldn't you change? Your life is not static. Your life is never going to be the same thing over and over. So to expect yourself never to change your mind and never change at all is completely unrealistic.

• 44:01Speaker 06

  Anyway. Gary believes that speed is one of the most important things an entrepreneur needs to be comfortable with. Claude Silver, VaynerMedia's Chief Heart Officer, talks about how speed is crucial to VaynerMedia's success.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  As of this announcement, the next most important role in this company underneath me. And so it's a big one. So as of today, starting on Monday, we now have a Chief Heart Officer. And that Chief Heart Officer is actually here. So I think we should grab our Chief Heart Officer.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  You know, coming from the larger advertising agencies that I was at for years and what seemed like centuries, things go slowly. Change takes a very long time. And there are a lot of layers and levels and a lot of Ts to cross and Is to dot. And one of the things that was very apparent to me year one at Vayner is that we go fast here. We go faster than fast. I mean, I believe that we actually create speed.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  Speed is the game. And if you can't execute fast, you can't win. Because by the time you execute on your promise, the world fucking moved on you.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  So I really had to learn how to jog and be very comfortable in a jog. And then know when I needed to sprint. And you know, now I'm so used to it that I actually expect other people to be able to sprint just like I'm sprinting. And I have to realize, and I'm sure Gary has to realize this every day, like not everyone is going to be where you are all the time. Which lends itself to patience.

• 45:42Speaker 00

  I know I'm on to something so fundamentally different. And I know that I can inspire people to do it because it's going to have the empire part too. See, that's what people don't get. The reason I'm going to win is because I've got both. The honey part means that you want to go change the world. The empire part means you'll do it at all costs. I'm neither.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Really being okay with where people are, being patient enough, feeding and nurturing them enough, encouraging them, you know, leading by example so that they get it. Because when someone finally gets that speed of how we do it at Vayner, like they get high. It's an amazing feeling.

• 46:25Speaker 00

  Like, we, we spend so much time overthinking instead of doing. Do it, then no, then decide. Speed. It's all speed. Like, you gotta go fast. That's how you get shit done. That's how you figure stuff out.

• 46:38Speaker 07

  Speed without control is reckless. His speed has control, meaning it's either been a honed process as he, he's done it a hundred times before, so therefore he can, right? Let's say he's evaluating a company to invest in. Well, he's invested in hundreds, right? So he could tell in 15 minutes if it's the right company or not. It looks like an impulsive investment. It's not an impulsive investment. He's got, he honed it over years.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  I find it super fascinating that people think fast decisions can be reckless because they themselves tend to question their decisions and they're imposing their insecurity as judgment on others who have pattern recognition, experience, conviction and confidence in decisions they make. I make very fast decisions when I have all the data and I have full confidence in my decision. I make very slow decisions when I don't have the data or I haven't figured it out yet. Demonizing fast decision making as reckless is laughable. The judge of that tends to be the insecure.

• 47:42Speaker 06

  Some decisions don't take a lot of strategy, just a gut feeling. In this chapter, we're going to see how entrepreneurs can be more conscious about using intuition and gut decisions.

• 47:53Speaker 05

  So there's something that Gary used to say a lot,

• 47:57Speaker 05

  that, that the magic is in the gray.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  The world is gray. I play in the gray because the world is gray.

• 48:03Speaker 05

  And I think that really just comes from the spirit of always being ready to pivot. And whether that's because the marketplace is telling you to pivot, or it's culture telling you to pivot, or it's Gary telling me directly that I need to pivot, or me telling him that I think we need to pivot on something. You know, gives that both core strength, but then the flexibility to just roll with the punches, get stuff done and really harness the power of your gut as opposed to, you know, sitting and waiting for things to change. It's, it's very much the, um, you know, be the change because you're smart and capable.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Everybody's so absolute, you know? World is gray.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  I think the interesting thing about Gary and all good leaders is just clear communication. So when Gary really feels strongly about something, when he is like, "Trust me, six months ago, we are going to double down on TikTok, and here are the reasons why." You, you trust and you, and you definitely fall into line. And there are other times that he's like, "I, I have, you know, reading tea leaves and whatnot," or like reading the marketplace or, you know, conversations, like, "I'm feeling something. Now tell me how that will work in this place." He's also open to that. And then the third, he'll, he'll definitely be in a conversation

• 49:32Speaker 02

  and he'll say like, "Actually, Gary, we're seeing like the opposite happen." And sometimes he's like, "I don't care. Screw it, we'll write our own feature." And sometimes he's like, "Oh, super interesting. Okay, don't disregard what I just said." But if you're set in your ways and you're not open to others' ideas or others' thoughts or others' opinions, then...

• 49:51Speaker 05

  Immediately that they say something and it's, oh, your opinion's different than mine, you're wrong. Um, I think that is a terrible way to be and I, and I feel I've never, I've never been that way and, and obviously I, you mature and get better and Gary was a major part of that where you see him, he has that um, mentality where everybody's opinion is allowed, um, there are no bad ideas, there may be bad ideas, but I still want to hear your bad ideas. Um, so I think it's being open to changing your mind on all things, um, that really matters and not just kind of changing your mind or being set in your ways. I, I, I think the openness to things is, is what really matters.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  What people, when people hear in the ad world, two to 4,000 piece of content, they think it's schizophrenic, they think it's throwing it up against the wall. They think it's not quality. There's a lot of negative connotation on it in the creative space, which is too bad because I actually think the thesis that I'm talking about is going to be the golden era of creativity.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  I'm in a, I'm in a discipline that's very disciplined, right? There's a lot of process, there's a lot of ways of working, there's a lot of, you know, methodologies to the way we approach things, but I think despite that, I've always gone with what makes the most sense. You know intuitively, like what do you feel in your heart and, and what makes sense to, to you as a professional, to you as a human being, to you as a consumer. And I think that that's one of the reasons Gary and I bonded, you know, because for as much um, discipline as we bring to it, a lot of what we do, this is marketing, it's, it's common sense. It's common sense and, and with that common sense comes human intuition and you have to lean into that. And I think that I've been most successful when I've been able to do that, you know, but um,

• 51:37Speaker 02

  you have to go with the things that kind of feel right and that really resonate with you as an individual, you know, and um, because I think that that's where the truth kind of lies.

• 51:47Speaker 00

  And here's the good news, we're going through this at Vayner right now, I'm looking at James and Mark, like we had this big meeting and I was like, like in the beginning and the end, I was like, look, I'm changing the direction of our creative output and our strategic and creative output. And it's super okay if you don't agree with me because I know it's fairly rogue. And so like come and see me and I'll get you a job doing what you want to do for more money somewhere out. This doesn't have to be bad. Back to person that I don't want bad. I just don't want to go to business. I'm definitely, I'm in charge of running the business. So I'm going to change the direction and you know, you're a hockey player. I just, and we've been playing hockey and now I'm saying we're playing basketball. Not everybody's going to transfer that skill. And that's okay. And I think that's what you do.

• 52:27Speaker 06

  You can read about pushups all day, but until you start doing them, you won't improve. In this chapter, we'll hear how doing always beats thinking.

• 52:36Speaker 05

  I joke about the DMs that I get that say, Andy, how do I start a podcast? And I joke because the answer is really easy. It's you start, you know, and I think I've really started to analyze my own actions and my own thoughts and ideas. And as I've consumed Gary's content and I watched Gary's content, there's just such a big difference between doing and thinking and pontificating. You know, I think so many people enjoy the comfort of thinking and strategizing and reading and planning and ideating versus just jumping in and doing it.

• 53:08Speaker 00

  Enough listening. Start doing shit. Don't be scared. And if you're scared, find somebody who's not scared. Make them your partner. Like it's action. It's going. It's doing.

• 53:15Speaker 05

  I think there's lots of people that want to make changes in their lives. And they think they're doing it by planning out how they're going to have a 30 day diet and that they're going to go keto and they're going to have no alcohol and how awesome it's going to be and how much weight they're going to lose. Versus just immediately saying, no, I'm not going to eat that pasta because now I'm on a keto diet. It's just implementing it right then and there, doing it, starting it, pressing the button versus planning, plotting, strategizing.

• 53:54Speaker 00

  Real traders still hear the noise. They just know when to stop listening to it. Find and research opportunities to fit your strategy with Thinkorswim trading platforms from

• 54:03Speaker 07

  Schwab. Discover features like robust charting, nearly unlimited customization, and built-in risk management technology. Plus, get 24/7 support from real trading specialists. That's Schwab Trading. Learn more at schwab.com/trading.

• 54:18Speaker 00

  Fuck you're gonna. Go do it. Do shit. Learn. Put in the work.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  I think the hardest thing to do is make decisions. That's why people don't change their mind. Indecisiveness is like so brutal. And that, I think, getting past indecisiveness is the hardest thing, and that's changing your mind. Because a lot of decisions, as you grow, like growth is changing your mind. So like when you get, when you're presented with new data or new experiences, or you've gone through something and now you know more, and you have to make a decision to change, most people just don't make the decision. They're not actively deciding to not change. They're just simply not deciding to change.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  You know, I always hear people like, should we do this? Should we do that? They're crippled by their indecisiveness and their worries about total reaction. It's not what you do, it's how you follow up on that mistake. It's not how you spill the milk, it's how you clean it up. You know, it's really funny. I always talk about, don't be in the middle, don't be half-pregnant. I pull from opposite directions. I have, you know, a lot of what is interesting about me is I see very, very different people associated with my message. People that genuinely don't agree on a single thing politically or socially, because they're hearing different things from me and I bounce around and I've been thinking a lot about it. You know, parenting philosophy, entrepreneurship philosophy, obviously political philosophy,

• 55:41Speaker 00

  like we are pulling further and further apart from each other. People are pulling in such opposite directions. Yet, I, I, I feel like there's so many merits and so many different nuanced points of view. And I just think that we've become so one-dimensional and so absolute. I think we have to start talking more about allowing people to change their mind. I think if we make changing your mind something that is put on a pedestal instead of demonized, you know, I think that would really help us.

• 56:11Speaker 07

  Gary doesn't believe in...

• 56:15Speaker 03

  One subjective opinion being the person that can say that idea is the one that should be executed, especially if it has minimal financial risk to it. It's like, do them all and see what the consumer thinks. Let, you know, find right instead of guess right. And our industry as a whole is much more, you know, guess right versus find right because they'll say that it's schizophrenia, or they'll say that it's throwing things against the wall until it sticks, or it's not on brand, or whatever it may be. Where, you know, we don't necessarily believe in that as much because we think that the consumer should decide

• 56:58Speaker 03

  what is quality versus three people in a boardroom deciding what is quality based on, you know, what they, their opinion of quality is.

• 57:07Speaker 00

  And I think a lot about that now with my content, which is why am I so comfortable with trying things? I posted a video yesterday that was upside down on Instagram. I don't know how many of you saw it. And, and, and maybe, and then a couple of days earlier, I made a video where I just said, "Like this post" like 58 times in a row. And I've been using this hashtag in the two posts that, you know, always be testing. And it's really my way to give you a nod of giving you permission. The like, like, like video did okay. The upside down video yesterday did not do well, and that excites me. And I'm excited to spend more time over the next, you know, year or two of trying things completely left field

• 57:48Speaker 00

  to hopefully inspire people to, you know, what I'm so unbelievably concerned about for everybody in here who's creating content, whether on YouTube or Instagram or other places, is you've become so obsessed with the number associated with the post that you're not actually even putting out anymore what you want to put out. You're putting out what you know is going to work. Too many of you are not doing things because you're worried about how it's going to make you look because you're late. So you're not starting. Which is always a bad idea, right? It's a huge thing that's happening. I think this, you know, I'm always thinking about the soundbite that may help you. I'm pumped right now because I have a funny feeling two or three of you are like, "Fuck, maybe I should..." You know, I get it. I understand brand.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  I understand, "Shit, I'm supposed to be this and I have less than all these..." But if you don't start, you don't get. And by the way, cream always rises to the top. If you're so good, right, you'll be there.

• 58:42Speaker 06

  Well, guys, you've made it this far. Thanks for watching until the end. Now we'll take it over to Gary.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Thing that baffles my mind is that people don't realize that there is no Monday morning quarterbacking in life. You can talk on Monday morning and be upset what your quarterback did. "Sam Darnold, I need you this year." But in real life, when you decide to buy real estate in the Hamptons and it doesn't work out, or buy a $5 sneaker and become a flipper instead of a lawyer, you don't know how your life plays out as a lawyer. So you're either an optimistic or a pessimistic person. The optimistic person goes and does flip life. It doesn't work out and they realize, "Well, I would have done the law thing. I would have made some more money, but I would have been so unhappy and I'm glad because now I'm this thing. I'm a teacher in this high school and I'm super happy." The pessimistic person does great in flipping, does a million a year,

• 59:32Speaker 00

  and decides they would have made $3 million a year as being a lawyer and that's the only thing they value is money, so they fucking lost. You decide. You decide if you're winning and losing before it even happens. So like, can we just, once and for all, make people understand that they have no idea that knowing what the right decision is at the time you're making the decision is humanly impossible?

• 1:00:06Speaker 00

  Hey everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this.