Pod Insights The GaryVee Audio Experience Most People Are Just Not Asking | Tea with GaryVee About this episode In this episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, I sit down for an interview during my first trip to Brazil and talk about why you're either first on a new platform or the best on a mature one. I share why wanting to build a big audience really means wanting to live a 1% life, and why South America, Asia, and the Middle East are the most underpriced markets in the world right now. I also discuss my three pieces of advice — self-awareness, make, patience — and the 5149 framework I use to decide which companies to invest in.
You'll learn about:
• First or Best on Any Platform
• The Underpriced Markets Right Now
• Self-Awareness, Make, and Patience
• Leverage in Every Relationship
• The 5149 Investing Framework
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.
0:04 Speaker 01 Gary, it's been a huge pleasure to have you for the first time here in Brazil.
0:09 Speaker 00 Thank you very much.
0:10 Speaker 01 Yes, we have a huge audience here with businessmen, people from marketing, people from self-development, yes. And for us to start, one thing I think is very important is, most of the guys also know your story, yes? But tell me a little more, for when, what was the exact moment you started creating this huge content on the internet? I know you started on YouTube, or one of the first guys to monetize, to make money through YouTube, yes? But tell a little about your story.
0:47 Speaker 00 You know, I was a very entrepreneurial kid, always creative, always focused on signs. When I was selling lemonade, when I was selling baseball cards, when I was helping my dad's liquor store. I didn't, you know, only recently did I realize I was creative, but in hindsight, I was always making signs. I always thought that was being a salesman, but in reality, I was doing marketing and I was doing creativity. And then, and then it was a website, and I spent a lot of time being creative with the website. And then it was advertising on Google AdWords and email, and I was doing copy.
1:22 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:23 Speaker 00 And I didn't realize all these things. They just thought like the thing you would do to sell. I didn't think of it as a profession or as a concept. For me, it was sales and businessman, not creative, not content. And then YouTube came along, and I saw it very early on, Eric Kastner.
1:39 Speaker 01 How old were you at that moment?
1:41 Speaker 00 At that moment, I was 29.
1:43 Speaker 01 29.
1:44 Speaker 00 And then just turned 30, and my first video was, Wine Library TV was three months after I turned 30. And in front of a camera just like this, with three bottles of wine, I did a video. It was the first time I ever done a video in any shape or form. And it felt right. I remember soon it was over. You know, a couple hours later, it was on Youtube. Youtube was very small back then, not a lot of views.
2:12 Speaker 01 It was like the beginning of Youtube.
2:13 Speaker 00 But we had a big email service. And, you know, it was funny, back then, when you made videos on Youtube, you didn't think about them being watched on Youtube. They gave you an embed code, and you would take the code and you would put it on your site. So, I sent an email to the people that buy wine, to Wine Library. We hosted it for a little while, then eventually I made a Wine Library TV site. But we would spend real money building sites to embed Youtube videos back then. And that became the process. Several months later, to about a year later, Twitter started getting very hot. I became very aggressive on Twitter. And that, and that was it. Then the cat was out of the bag. That was the beginning of what has me sitting here. From that moment on,
2:57 Speaker 00 except for a very small period between 2011 and 2013, where I did very limited content, because I was so head-down on building VaynerMedia. Basically, over the last 13 years, except for maybe a two-year soft period, I've been producing content very aggressively on the internet.
3:17 Speaker 01 Nice. And imagine nowadays, a lot of people are producing content on the internet. Here in Brazil is the same. What tips could you give to these people? Because the market now is very aggressive. It's hard for you, for example, to get audience, as we got in the past.
3:34 Speaker 00 As it should be. Like anything, if you're the first, you're going to, and you're right. It's like real estate. If you're first and you're right, you make the most. And so, audience development is hard now on platforms that are mature. It's hard to develop audience. Because now, when it's mature, you have to be the best, not the first. And most people aren't the best, or in the top 5%. Today, somebody in, you know, in southern Brazil can start an Instagram account and in a year be number 1.
4:09 Speaker 01 Oh yes, sure.
4:10 Speaker 00 But she or he has to be tremendous. The prettiest, the smartest, the funniest, the most strategic, or the biggest expert in sparkling wine from Brazil. The biggest expert on new fashion trends. Or, she or he can take a different strategy and decide to become the leader of the first people on TikTok. Or the first people on a new medium. So, you're either first, or you're best. And, I don't feel any sympathy or sadness for anybody who cries about it's hard to build an audience. Because I want to remind everybody who's watching, when you say that you want to build a big audience,
4:54 Speaker 00 what you're really saying is that you want to live a 1% life. I want to live a life where I get to do whatever I want and make enough money to be happy. That's extremely hard. Very few people achieve that in their lives. So I think the audacity to want to be an influencer, or a content producer who makes a living off of that, I think people need to be reminded, it's not so easy. It's not supposed to be easy. Wait, wait to Instagram starts to decline.
5:29 Speaker 00 You know how many, you know, maybe 4 or 5 years ago, a lot of the marketers will remember, Facebook pages stopped getting as many people seeing it organically. And everybody cried. But that was a lot of business people. Instagram is almost everybody. And when Instagram starts declining in a year or 2 or 6 months or 3 years, a lot of people are going to be in trouble for not diversifying into podcasting, into LinkedIn, into YouTube, into TikTok, into Twitter, or into anything that's emerging.
6:00 Speaker 01 Nice. And talking about markets, imagine a lot of people are creating this content, and I understand that it's very important you have kind of a pool of different sources of sending information to people. In your concern, comparing for example, US with Latin America, what are the, which are, yes, the main markets? Which are the markets that you feel is very warm and people should invest in?
6:26 Speaker 00 From a macro global perspective versus platform?
6:28 Speaker 01 From a macro global perspective.
6:29 Speaker 00 Well, I think South America and Asia are actually the most interesting markets because the maturity of the big companies spending money in the platforms is lower. Ads in Brazil on Facebook and Instagram are a better deal than they are in America.
6:43 Speaker 01 Oh yeah, sure. Yeah, I can see that because I buy a lot of media. Here it's cheaper than when I buy, for example, some advertisement in US. Perfect, perfect, yeah.
6:52 Speaker 00 That is the answer.
6:54 Speaker 01 No, no, so cool.
6:54 Speaker 00 South America and Asia have scale. There's a lot of people. It's not Greenland. It's not Iceland. You know, there's people and the price is underpriced.
7:05 Speaker 01 You know, business perspective?
7:06 Speaker 00 I apologize. Actually, I want to bring value. The place I'm seeing my best results right now is the Middle East.
7:12 Speaker 01 Middle East?
7:13 Speaker 00 Middle East is very inexpensive on Instagram and I'm building very quick awareness for me or any business I'm involved in.
7:21 Speaker 01 What about Far East, for example? Vietnam, these countries also?
7:25 Speaker 00 Southeast Asia.
7:26 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, yes, perfect.
7:27 Speaker 00 As a whole. Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia. Very, very good.
7:33 Speaker 01 And for example, that's the first time you're coming to Brazil.
7:35 Speaker 00 Yes.
7:36 Speaker 01 Do you have, for example, some intent to invest in Brazil, bring your agency, for example?
7:42 Speaker 00 Yes.
7:43 Speaker 01 And why?
7:44 Speaker 00 Because I want to be everywhere.
7:46 Speaker 01 Okay, and why you want to be everywhere?
7:48 Speaker 00 Because I want to win.
7:50 Speaker 01 Hahaha, quick answer.
7:53 Speaker 00 You know, I want to build the biggest business I can build.
7:58 Speaker 01 Okay.
7:58 Speaker 00 And the biggest business I can build includes...
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9:02 Speaker 00 Every place in the world, from Africa to Southeast Asia to... Now, where exactly? So for example, in the media business that I run, Brazil has unique laws where media and creative have to be together. So I have to decide, is it Brazil? Is it Argentina? Is it Colombia? Where a lot of culture and music is coming from that I'm interested in? So I haven't decided where VaynerMedia's office is gonna be. The biggest businesses are here, but the restrictions on media and creative having to be together, which is unlike any other part of the world, is something that I have to be thoughtful about. Hey everybody, I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast.
9:42 Speaker 00 That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy.
9:49 Speaker 01 Nice, nice, nice. So cool. And imagine you have some... you have three tips for Brazilians to succeed in their business. Which are these three tips?
10:01 Speaker 00 I think self-awareness.
10:03 Speaker 01 Self-awareness?
10:04 Speaker 00 I think the biggest issue right now is that people are delusional or not self-aware. They think they're just gonna... I mean, the amount of kids that come up to me in the street and say they're gonna build a billion-dollar company, I mean, it's just talk. You know? Self-awareness. What makes you happy? Just having more followers or more money does not make people happy. Liking what you do always makes people happy. You know, not being embarrassed of your insecurities is what makes people happy. So, you know, are you a creator? Are you an actor? Are you a winemaker? You know, who are you? And I'm always fear as my popularity grows
10:48 Speaker 00 that a lot of the kids that watch me, or not even the kids, everyone, starts to try to be like me. And the only thing that anybody should be like me in is that I was confident enough and patient enough to actually be myself. Which, at the time, in 2006 when I hit the scene, and 2009 when I really hit the scene, cursing was very frowned upon. Dressing casual was very frowned upon. I didn't look... The amount of people that would say, "You look like a..." "You look great." But in reverse, in 2009, I would get hundreds of emails. "You look like a bum." "Nobody's gonna take you seriously if you don't wear a suit." Things that make people laugh right now.
11:33 Speaker 00 But that was my life. "Don't talk about football." "American football, I know where I am." You know, "Don't talk about..." "Don't talk about..." You know, "Don't talk about this." You want the best one?
11:47 Speaker 01 Which one?
11:48 Speaker 00 In 2009, when I started making business content, more than half of the comments that I got were for me not to talk about business, because I should only stick to wine, because that's what I know.
12:01 Speaker 00 You know, that is probably... You know, I just said it for the first time this clear. I see D-Rock in the background making notes. I might not have something better to say right now than that. That more than half the people that commented on my content in 2009 made snarky comments that I should stay in my lane, that I'm just the wine guy. And I think that would be very good advice for a lot of people, because I know for fact, because I get so many DMs, the amount of people who'd no longer want to be posting what they're posting on Instagram... But because they were funny and a comedian, but now they're a serious business person. They used to be a model, but now they want to talk about their vegan food business. They used to be a business, serious businessman, but now they want to be a comedian.
12:46 Speaker 00 There's a lot of people, but they're scared because the first time they post something else, especially people that are attractive. I feel a lot of empathy towards people who are attractive. They, they, their self-worth and their likes come from being attractive. Then they try to make one post about something else and it doesn't get as many likes and they feel insecure. And they'd rather get likes than be happy, which is crazy. So, my biggest advice, number one is self-awareness. Number two, make.
13:15 Speaker 01 Make it.
13:16 Speaker 00 Make. Everyone's thinking, they're working towards it, they're looking for their videographer. All these bullshit excuses to not make. People come up with a hundred excuses.
13:28 Speaker 01 They're losing time and losing time.
13:28 Speaker 00 They're insecure, they're scared. They deep down don't think they can achieve what they're saying they're gonna achieve. And so they're not making. And number three is patience.
13:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:39 Speaker 00 I cannot understand how people think that in a week, or in a month, or even in a year, they're gonna be so famous and so rich. And it's, it's, it's a delusional, and so patience.
13:55 Speaker 01 A difficult question now.
13:57 Speaker 00 Please.
13:58 Speaker 01 Imagine there's a question you'd love somebody to ask you, but nobody ever has asked you this question. Which is this question? And please answer that.
14:10 Speaker 00 I'm happy to answer it, but I want to do what I do in every interview, which is give you the truth, which is the following. I, any question I wanted to be asked of me, I would give that story and take control of the narrative. If there was something I wanted to talk about, I would make videos talking about it. When I answer questions, I'm there to answer somebody's question. Let me give you the reverse.
14:33 Speaker 01 Okay.
14:33 Speaker 00 The amount of people that come up to me that are my friends or around me that say, "Gary, you know, I'll do a keynote," like today, 30 questions. And, and you'll come to me and you'll say, "Gary, aren't you tired, you know, because you've watched, aren't you tired of people asking you the same question?" The answer's no. It's their question.
14:50 Speaker 00 Right now, today on Friday in Brazil, that's the question they want to ask of me. And if they need affirmation, or if they need justification, or if they need the clip to show their mother, "See, Gary said so," I don't care. When I'm being asked questions, I'm there for them, not for me. It's impossible for me to be selfish on a question. If I want somebody to ask me something, I'm gonna ask myself something and put it out to the fucking word. You know, like, I don't need that. So, it's a great question. And I'll tell you why it's a great question. I believe most people, when they produce content, actually are not bringing value to the audience. They are actually PR-ing themselves. I promise you, right? And I'll tell you why you reacted like that.
15:35 Speaker 00 Because you know right now, that sometimes you bring in somebody, and you get frustrated with the presentation, because you're like, "Shir, he's doing a press release for themselves."
15:44 Speaker 01 Oh yeah, sure.
15:45 Speaker 00 You know, I come here today, and I'm completely focused, like, laser-focused today on those 90 minutes on stage today. How do I bring the most value to those 2,000 people, knowing a lot of them already know what I have to say?
15:57 Speaker 01 Oh yeah.
15:58 Speaker 00 Knowing some of them don't even like me, and they're going there because their friend wants to come, and knowing some percentage doesn't know who I am. How to mix that all in? That's how I think about it.
16:08 Speaker 01 Nice, nice. And I've been bringing people from US, from Europe, to Brazil, also to make connections, yes? And I've been learning a lot with people like you, with people like Richard, which is coming for my next event, for example, yes? I've been creating this connection all over, and also here in Brazil. What do you think about connections? What's the importance of connections to succeed in business?
16:36 Speaker 00 I think it's one of the biggest variables.
16:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:38 Speaker 00 I think the tricky part for somebody as dynamic as you, and there's a "you" in many markets.
16:43 Speaker 01 Okay, yeah.
16:43 Speaker 00 Because I've met them, because I lived the life I now live. Connections are the most important. The problem is, most people have a difficult time of how to find a balance of giving and taking.
16:55 Speaker 01 Perfect, perfect. And a lot of people...
16:56 Speaker 00 Right?
16:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, I feel that here.
16:58 Speaker 00 You know.
16:59 Speaker 01 And most of the people I also bring to Brazil, they start connecting to some businessmen here in Brazil. And at some point, these guys who got connected to you, for example, they want only to...
17:12 Speaker 01 Take value to their selves, not give value, yes?
17:15 Speaker 00 95 to 98% of the interactions I have in the world,
17:21 Speaker 00 whether it's disguised, or whether it's transparent, is somebody asking for something.
17:30 Speaker 01 They always want to take...
17:31 Speaker 00 You know how many people offered to drive me from the airport to this event today? 100. They didn't want to drive me. They wanted me to sit in their car and answer their questions and give them advice. That's... By the way, honestly, on the record? Fine? I'm flattered. I'm flattered that people admire or have interest or see value in me. I just also am aware it's happening, which means 90% of the time I'm happy to give it, I'll give it. But I also know that that's the beginning of our relationship. And any relationship that give, that starts. With you taking, means you do not have the leverage.
18:17 Speaker 01 Last question, one of the last in fact. Did you have mentors? If yes, who were your mentors? And do you recommend a book that you read and you think, "Oh, this is the book you should read"?
18:31 Speaker 00 I'm smiling because I'm watching D-Rock laugh because it's a very funny question because you asked both... Yeah, you asked two things that I think are interesting because I don't learn the way most people learn. And so, most people learn through books and mentors, and I don't. I think I've read 7 books in my life. And none of... like 2 were business books. As a matter of fact, one of the books I read was about 3G. It was the great private equity built out of Brazil, so that's fun. No, I don't have a mentor. Obviously, I admire my father. He came to America with nothing. I admire him. And then, you know... But I would be... it would be disingenuous for me to say my dad was my mentor. I spent most of my childhood... Telling my dad he was doing things wrong.
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20:15 Speaker 00 ... more so than taking on. Though he taught me things, including probably the most important thing I needed to learn at 14. I was so good at selling. I was so good with words that in my childhood, I was full of shit. I would do anything to sell. And I think that my dad, in a lot of ways, saved me from not being the people I make fun of today.
20:37 Speaker 00 Because you never lie. You don't, you know, you do the right thing, da, da, da. So, but no, my mentor actually is, is all of you.
20:46 Speaker 01 Okay.
20:47 Speaker 00 I spend all my time not reading books or looking at other businessmen and women. I spend all my time reading, reading your comments. Reading your comments.
20:57 Speaker 01 So cool.
20:58 Speaker 00 That's what I do. I read your comments. I read your comments. I read your DMs. I read your replies. And I read and I read. And that's why I'm often first or, or early in talking about things that end up happening, whether it's platforms, whether it's mindset, whether it's trends.
21:18 Speaker 01 Okay.
21:19 Speaker 00 I tend to be early because you see them happening in reality, not reading it from somebody else.
21:28 Speaker 01 Nice. And one thing I was thinking, yes, there is a lot of startups here, also at the event, yeah? And you are kind of an early investor of many businesses, yes? And you have kind of, probably you have some procedures, some way to decide in which business you're going to invest your money?
21:45 Speaker 00 I do, I do.
21:46 Speaker 01 What do you do to decide, "Okay, I'm going to invest in this company"? Because you succeed a lot in many companies you already invested.
21:52 Speaker 00 And I failed a lot. Because I'm very loud about Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr. I don't talk about the 50 to 100 companies.
22:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure.
22:01 Speaker 00 You know, actually, can you give me a favor? Can you get Phil to put together a list of all the companies that are completely out of business? I want to make a video and just go through it. Anyway, nonetheless, through winning and losing, here's what I now do. A, I don't invest a lot right now because I think right now it's so cool to be a founder, that everyone's doing it, but they're not meant to be good at it. So that's number one. Number two, I call it 5149. And really, it's 50.1, 49.9.
22:38 Speaker 00 First, I make a decision about the person. Do I think she can do it? Do I think she can do it? And then, I have to love the idea for the customer now, or very soon. Those are my two ways. That's what I spend my time on. Do I think she can do it? Does she have the stomach when she gets punched in the mouth? When the market turns? Will she fold? Or will she triple down? And number two? Do I like the idea? Do I think people want to buy pencils on the internet? You know, like, you know, so...
23:18 Speaker 00 Where I lost most of my money was I loved the idea and didn't think thoughtfully enough if she or he could do it. Because what I did, I apologize, but I want to get this thought across. I think a lot of people make this mistake. I was right about a lot of those ideas, but what I thought was what I, as an operator, would do. But I wasn't the one operating the business. And those are the mistakes I've made.
23:43 Speaker 01 Nice. Okay, coming to the end, yes, some last advice. You think it's very important for Brazilians? Imagine they're following this video until now.
23:52 Speaker 00 I think Brazilians, obviously, I'm paying very close attention to this market. Obviously, there's political conversations in the air. There's global conversations in the air. Here's what I would say. It is, there's no debate. Because of the way the internet works, there's never been a better time to build something for yourself if you live in Brazil. The end. Smartphones, infrastructure, dollars, everything's in place.
24:16 Speaker 01 Blockchain, these things also.
24:18 Speaker 00 Big, humongous consumer base. This is the biggest opportunity. This is actually the easiest time to build a successful business in the history of Brazil.
24:28 Speaker 01 Perfect. I believe the same.
24:29 Speaker 00 It's just true. It's the maturity of the internet. It's the scale the internet's at and how low the cost is to get involved. So, my last piece of advice is, understand that in your head and do something about it.
24:45 Speaker 01 So cool. Thanks a lot, man.
24:47 Speaker 00 Thank you.
24:47 Speaker 01 I'm very happy to bring you to Brazil.
24:49 Speaker 00 I'm really happy, I'm really happy I'm here.
24:51 Speaker 01 I hope you have an amazing experience. I know you are going to be here for a few hours.
24:55 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm, I'm, listen.
24:57 Speaker 01 When are you planning to come back to Brazil?
24:59 Speaker 00 I actually, I actually am coming back. I saw it on my calendar, yeah.
25:02 Speaker 01 But you should come more times here also to know.
25:05 Speaker 00 Look, I, I came here because I'm ready to start coming here more.
25:10 Speaker 01 Perfect.
25:11 Speaker 00 And so, I plan on being in Brazil every year of my life.
25:14 Speaker 01 Nice, nice, nice.
25:16 Speaker 00 Thank you.
25:16 Speaker 01 Thank you so much.
25:18 Speaker 00 Bye, everyone.
25:18 Speaker 01 Tchau. Valeu.
25:19 Speaker 00 Tchau. Hey, everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.
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