The Scientific Reason Why Women Stop Giving Head w/ Chris Williamson

We are joined by the Life Optimizer, Chris Williamson, today. We're chatting: - Pee pees have grown in size - Dating, rosters and dating apps - The need for a white pill - Accents and classism - US vs UK mentalities - Relationship problems - New form of exorcism and much, much more - INDULGE! Timestamps: 0:00 Male vs female sex drive 2:03 Small pee pees + Growth 4:46 Saving men, Sexlessness + The apps 14:09 Power of Dancing + Dating 18:38 20% getting 80% of women? 24:04 Holland shooting webs 25:02 Rosters + Tinder optimisation 29:25 AI + Virtue signalling 35:36 Wealth disparity + Belief in American dream 38:30 Get rich quick schemes 40:19 White pilling + Self-reliance 44:31 American in spirit? US v UK mentalities 49:55 Accents & Classism 54:27 Jay-Z and friends doing the Super Bowl 57:54 Social mobilisation + Ivy League 1:05:24 Tallest poppy syndrome + Leaders 1:08:56 George Washington + I hate them more 1:11:15 Credit for dream faithfulness 1:18:31 Single men madness 1:21:38 Schulz's Schedule + Coffee psy-op 1:26:45 GLPs changed EVERYTHING + Cost Signalling 1:35:33 Why women vent? Gay best friends 1:40:40 Can men & women be friends? 1:44:44 Birth order g4yness, Fashun & Miles 1:48:39 New Exorcism = SUCTION + Achilles ouchy 2:01:56 It works for me 2:04:43 Missing Teslas + The Silk Road 2:13:23 Top Gear, Loving cars + Sports 2:18:56 Chris' tour This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. #chriswilliamson #dating #podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What's up, everybody? Welcome to Flagrant. There was a time when becoming a man was pretty straightforward. Your dad taught you how to shave. In Alex's case, your mom taught you how to shave. Your grandfather taught you how to fix shit and jerk off to playboys in the woods. Your friend's older brother taught you how to finger a girl using Play-Doh. And eventually, you fought a war against some Asians and shut the fuck up about your feelings, like a man.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  But somewhere along the way, we lost the plot. Now, men are confused. We don't know how much testosterone we're supposed to have, when we're supposed to wake up, if porn is destroying our brains, if seed oils are making us grow tits. We don't know if we should get married, stay single, have kids, start a podcast, take creatine, retain semen, or stare directly in the sun, thankfully. One man has dedicated thousands of hours to figuring it out. He's interviewed neuroscientists, psychologists, billionaires, Navy SEALs, evolutionary biologists, and Hunter Biden, all to answer the question. Our father somehow answered with that Y five. Why does your wife eventually stop giving you head?

• 1:10Speaker 01

  That's not the question.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  Oh, how do we go from boys to men? It's Chris Williams.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17Speaker 00

  Ladies and gentlemen.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  What an intro.

• 1:19Speaker 00

  But why, but why do, like, I've heard guys complain about that, like, about not getting head as much. Like, what is, what is a scientific?

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Personal experience or?

• 1:26Speaker 00

  No, no, not at all. Well, no, I wouldn't get into that. But like, I wouldn't say yes or no. I admit, I take a fifth on that one.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  Um, but why, what would you say the scientists say about that?

• 1:36Speaker 02

  So there is some evidence that suggests female sex drive falls off more quickly after marriage than male sex drive does, which is pretty interesting. And obviously, we're going to be four men trying to estimate exactly what's going on inside of a married woman's brain.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  We can figure it out.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is, this is the exact mastermind that the internet has been waiting for.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  I know that penises are nowhere near their brain.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  But it depends where you put it.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Hence the problem.

• 2:01Speaker 00

  That is the problem. We're trying to solve right here.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  You know, penises have been getting longer over the last few decades.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Let's go. Let's go. Ever since he's been on the internet, penis is getting longer every day.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  You think that that's me causing them to get longer?

• 2:14Speaker 01

  I think they see you pop up on YouTube, bro. I think they see a lump.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  A little bit of blood gets into it.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Is that true?

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Penis has been getting longer, yeah.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  Why is that? Is that selection of women? Women prefer longer dicks?

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Literally kind of an X factor thing. People don't really know what's going on, but it is that also 10% of men can't see their own penis.

• 2:31Speaker 00

  10% can't see their own penis?

• 2:33Speaker 02

  Can't see their own penis.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  Because they're overweight.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's called like a penile burial syndrome.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Can't see it at all?

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Can't see it. You're like Peter Griffin. You know how Peter Griffin is never sort of full, fully frontally naked? He's always got a belly over it. It's kind of that, but from your perspective.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Now, now, just so we can go back for one second, is it possible, like, what was it, the Roman or the Greeks? Who were the ones that made dicks small in the statues?

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Hmm, yeah, they thought it was more refined. They thought it was like uncouth, it was barbaric to have like a big piece.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  But that was obviously like.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  Racist. Well, I think a big part of that is maybe just loads of guys with small penises wanting to make their penis look a little bit bigger.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Or you just had these wars with the African guys.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Fuck them.

• 3:14Speaker 00

  But doesn't this happen around like the Punic Wars or whatever it is? Like Hannibal's coming over with elephants? They probably weren't even elephants. It was the first time they saw black guys. They're like, what the fuck is going on over here, right? So these trunks are walking across the mountains and they're like, we gotta do something to get women to stopping into that. Probably set white dicks back generations.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Thousand years.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  Thousand years.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It took the entire Renaissance.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's going up. Average erect penis going up 24% over the last 30 years. It's almost a percentile a year.

• 3:43Speaker 00

  What's the average size?

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Rising from 4.8 to, uh.

• 3:47Speaker 00

  Six inches is the average? Jesus, how many inches is? Yo, Miles. How many inches, how many inches is this and then more? Stuff, but like definitely more than that.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Someone can do that with AI. Someone can take a screenshot of that with AI.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Brilliant. Yeah, it's going up, dude. It's increasing. Environmental exposure might be driving this.

• 4:08Speaker 00

  Wait, wait, hoping what way? What are you trying to say?

• 4:11Speaker 01

  No, maybe you've still got some inches left, you know? Dude. Wait, environmental chemical exposure? That's what's causing it?

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Maybe, so sperm count go down, testicle get smaller, penis get longer.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Oh, there's just more space for it.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Oh, maybe, I don't know. It might be like a Feng Shui thing. I'm not sure.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, so this is what you do all day? When you're not working out, this is what you're doing? You're, you're finding out why dicks are getting bigger?

• 4:36Speaker 02

  If I'm not recording the podcast or working out, all I'm doing is working out how big penises are and why.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  What a fucking life.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like Sherlock Holmes, but for dicks.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Sherlock Holmes.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  How do we, how do we save men, Chris? How do we do it?

• 4:51Speaker 02

  So the question of sort of what's going on with men at the moment is like very hot, hot topic. I suppose it's hot topic on the right, has been for a while, and then it became a hot topic on the left, too, especially after the last election, because it was kind of obvious that they didn't really seem to resonate in the same way that they should have done.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  Look, there's a ton of evidence that guys aren't doing particularly well. There have never been so few going to higher education, loneliness, drugs, porn, video games, weed, sexlessness, like radicalization. It's not good, but I mean, it is not a, oh, we'll just give them the right Andrew Huberman podcast and this will like lift them out of their, their challenges at the moment.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  Is it true, young people aren't fucking?

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Is that a real thing?

• 5:33Speaker 02

  At least sexlessness is going up by a good chunk. So some stats, 4% of men under the age of 30 were virgins in sort of 2010-ish, and that's up to now 10% in 2024. So nearly a doubling, more than a doubling of guys under the age of 30 that haven't ever had sex.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  That, how is that even possible? I don't get that. How is that even possible?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  To make it to 30 without having had sex?

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Well, no, I mean.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  No, no, no, don't point at me. Why are you pointing at me?

• 6:03Speaker 02

  You, you. The in-house incel expert.

• 6:06Speaker 00

  No, he, he, you waited, you waited. Don't judge him by his cardigan.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  It's like a sexy grandma.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. But like, you waited.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  His is kind of voluntary, so.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  It was, it was voluntary. It wasn't involuntary.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  But I just don't like, okay, again, I know I'm going to come across as like boom or whatever, but like when you hear about the statistics, young people aren't fucking and that kind of stuff, it's like, do, are we really actually supposed to believe this?

• 6:30Speaker 02

  24% of 18 to 29 year olds, this is men and women, didn't have sex in the last year. 24% no sex. The most common answer to the question, how many sexual partners did you have over the last year is one, and then the next most common is zero.

• 6:47Speaker 00

  And why do you think it is?

• 6:50Speaker 02

  It's a fucking huge question. So one of the things could be lack of shared spaces, like people aren't going out to meet people in person that much anymore, a lot more people spending time online, optionality fatigue, online dating is.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  I've heard that.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Great for women because they feel like they're kind of flooded with options, but they don't like that many of them, and they're maybe a little bit worried about going out to see them. Guys, on the other hand, have the opposite problem, which is they turn around and like, y'all getting options, like what the fuck is going on? So there's two, shared spaces, online, this slow life strategy thing, which is people are moving out of the house later, getting their driver's licenses later, partying.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  But that doesn't stop Europeans. Like Europeans live with their parents until like 35 years old.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  I think it's more than, more than 50% of 30 year olds in Italy are still living at home with their parents.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  And you want to, we're not going to believe they're virgins. There's no way. Exactly.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  And they're Italian.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, Italians can't stop.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  I didn't know that Italians like fucking. There was a guy at this show I did in Jersey, who was like, and he looked, he was like 65, and he had a girl with him and she was like 30. And then I was like, I was like, wow, or something like that. And then he goes, I'm Italian. I was like, what the fuck does that mean?

• 7:57Speaker 02

  It's a cheat code.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  You're the only, Italians are the only 60 year olds that want to bang 30 year olds?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  You've managed to reverse engineer how to get into a 30 year old.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  So one of the most interesting stats, 63% of men under the age of 30 report being single, but only 34% of women under the age of 30 report being single. 63, 34 men to women.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that's, is that surprising that guys lie about?

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Being single?

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Uh, so that's.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  Girls think they're in a relationship before.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  So that's the thing that most people don't realize, that it's the categorization. Like, that's the thing where most people go, oh, it's the, the younger girls are dating the older guys and the guys then are getting a channel.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  There's shame for a woman not being in a relationship, but there's no shame for a guy.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  They've matched their situationship into a relationship, whereas the guy has done the opposite.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  That's why I think a lot of this might just be like the way that we're crunching data.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Very well might be, and obviously, again.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Have you heard that Patrice joke where he's like, uh, my girl's been with me three years, I've been with her three months? You know, like, I think that there is a little bit of truth to that. Like, in order for us to be in a relationship, we have to have like a very juvenile discussion where we're like, we're boyfriend and girlfriend, right? Until that moment, a guy is not in a relationship.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  A long list of things that explains what that actually means.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  The girl is living with you.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  But unless we have this conversation, we are not official.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  I think that bringing back Facebook would fix a lot of these problems because becoming Facebook official was a huge step.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  You know?

• 9:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's no TikTok official because there's no community in TikTok.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  And you're not going like girlfriend in bio, right? That's too much. No one's expecting that.

• 9:26Speaker 00

  Yo, when guys do that, that is crazy.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Girlfriend in bio.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  Girlfriend, like.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  They put them in the bio. Yeah, like a little ring on it.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Or the shared Instagram, you would.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, Bible verse, ring, tag, that's fire.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  The shared Instagram account, too?

• 9:41Speaker 02

  I haven't seen that.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  You haven't seen like a couple that has a shared, Lily and David or something?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  That's kind of boomer shit, though. I feel like that's old.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Like, that's like you're 50 and you get on Instagram and you do it with your wife.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  My mom's email is still.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  My mom and dad share an email, like emails aren't infinite. They have a short fucking email that I cannot say aloud.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Like a semi-detached house, but for email?

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Fucking fantastic. So yeah, anyway, the, maybe some people are dating, some girls are dating older. Maybe it's the categorization thing. But yeah, I mean, the vast majority, I think it's somewhere in the region of 35% of women and like 50% of men say they're not looking for casual or long-term relationships. They're just checked out. Like both men and women are kind of exhausted of the whole, what's called the mating crisis. Like this big thing is the mating crisis.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  I get that. There's like the analysis paralysis shit. Like, it's funny, when the online dating first came out, I was, I think I was like getting on some TV shows, like some MTV stuff and I was like touring, right? And I remember Jamil, who you met here, he would explain to me his dating life. And it was so far superior to mine and I was on TV. Like, because the apps just hit.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  So is this like 2012, maybe 2013, something like that?

• 11:01Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe. But it was like, it was, he would, it was cra- I mean, you probably remember this time. It was like, you were meeting people and everybody was kind of excited about it and it was almost like you were traveling. Like, you know how like, girls don't have the same standards when they're traveling, like they're in Cancun or some shit. It's like, nobody's here, it doesn't count on the record. The record is only like at home, right? And like, and you could do it kind of anonymously. It was crazy. And now I feel like the pendulum has swung all the way back.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  You said it was grind if it's straight people?

• 11:30Speaker 00

  It was that. It was that.

• 11:32Mark Gagnon?

  Tinder was the fucking app.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  It was.

• 11:35Mark Gagnon?

  You're just going to some guy's house. You know you fucking, if you go on Bumble, alright, maybe you actually want to date.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  In 2012, in New York City, in July and August, if you had a functional AC, you could fuck a girl every single night. You think I'm joking? These girls live in places with no AC. I'm being serious. It's an expensive city and AC's not guaranteed.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Wall unit or central AC?

• 11:54Speaker 00

  It doesn't matter. Your profile pic was the, the window with the AC hanging out? Seven days a week, you could get laid. Am I, am I off on that now?

• 12:02Mark Gagnon?

  You're not off, you're not off.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  It was a very crazy time.

• 12:05Mark Gagnon?

  Just nachos and, that's a nacho date, you're smashing.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  You see that guy?

• 12:09Speaker 00

  That was Al's line. He would just go, nachos, question mark? This is before I used to like.

• 12:16Mark Gagnon?

  At least 70% of the time.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Because everybody likes nachos?

• 12:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Very good.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  They don't even like nachos.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Have you seen that guy who swiped?

• 12:23Speaker 02

  I think it was like 14 million times. You might be able to find this. This dude swiped 14 million times on Tinder or Bumble or something and he ended up with maybe one match. What he didn't say was that the main profile picture of him was him holding a fish. And there's kind of a meme among women that if a guy's got him and a fish as.

• 12:43Speaker 00

  Oh, I got that.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  I have a theory about this fish thing, by the way.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  Okay, go.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  But yeah, this is a man on Tinder swiped 2 million times in 5 years and only managed to get one date.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Wow. But he was holding a fish like in a river?

• 12:54Speaker 01

  That was amazing. Yeah, him, waiters, fish.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  And women joke about it and they're like, oh, the guys will hold the fish. All these guys holding fishes, da-da-da-da.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  But isn't that them trying to make women feel more comfortable about themselves sometimes? Like.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Like, look who I hang around with.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  The bar is set on so low.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  There's no way. It don't matter what time it is. Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  I'm assuming it's because it's the only picture that guys have alone where they're happy. Like truly, like, how many pictures in your camera roll are just you like, being joyful alone?

• 13:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  It's, it doesn't exist.

• 13:25Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  And so the only time that they're like.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  If you add an animal in, like if it was you and your dog, you're probably ecstatic.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  But how many times do you have a picture of you and your dog? You have to ask your boy to take a picture of you and your dog, which never happens.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, that is crazy.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:36Mark Gagnon?

  But it's ceremonial nature.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  Big fish, it's like, oh, look what I just did.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Let me commemorate this moment. And for the average dude working in an office shop, it's the only time he's like, this is me proud.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  I'm allowed to have a photo taken of me without it being cringe.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  And now you're being mocked on the internet for trying to put it on your dating profile. This is a crowning achievement of mine.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Most guys, the only picture they have alone is them like passed out drunk and their friend took it. Like, if your friend's taking a picture of you, it's because you're in a destitute situation. And then the fish is the only time and it's like, dude, I did something cool.

• 14:04Speaker 00

  That is so interesting because as a dude, you can't really have too curated a dating profile.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  It's the same as dancing.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  Go.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Same as dancing. If you're too good at dancing, it's suspicious. If you're too bad at dancing, it's not good. There's like a proximate zone of competence that you need.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  What's the suspicion if you're too good?

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Why, why do you spend so much time learning dancing? Like, what's, what's going on there? Like, what have you?

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Well, what is wrong with that?

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know. Ask the people. I haven't got any issue. I know you're a fantastic dancer.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  I come from a dance family. I come from a dance family.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's like a nepo dance baby.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  I'm a nepo dance baby.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Dramatic dancer.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  But you're saying that girls will start going, oh, something's up here. You're gay?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  I don't know about the girls, actually. I think there's probably, and it depends what type of dancing.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Right? Like if it's two-step country twirling stuff, I think there's no limit.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  Merengue, salsa, no limit.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  All that stuff, all that, that two-person stuff.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  Anything that makes the girl look good at dancing, there's no limit.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Dude, we went to my producer's wedding last year and one of the guys, our DP Bennett, you met him the last time that we were here.

• 15:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  Freakish dancer, like grew up in near Nashville, just twirling, doing the two-step thing.

• 15:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  He, there was a queue. There was a queue at a wedding of girls in relationships, many of whom were part of the bridal fucking thing. Like waiting to be twirled by this guy.

• 15:22Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, he cleaned up that night.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  Oh, one of the hundred. I did, I used to see it. I mean, there was a guy with like severe learning disabilities and like he was a special guy who would come to these dances that, like, no.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  The fuck he could twirl.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  And he would still, like, he'd walk around, it was like, he literally, this is not a joke. Do you remember the, my stapler, do you know where my stapler, my red stapler from Office Worker, whatever that movie was? That was him to a T.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  And he, but he could kind of move and like, girls would kind of like go awkwardly into dancing with him. And then by the end of the song, they're like, I kind of really enjoyed this. Like, they would rather dance with a guy who was retarded than a guy and could dance, than a guy who was not retarded but can't dance.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  Danced in a retarded way.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  Yes. Yes.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's interesting. They'd sort of switch places as soon as the dance floor, there's like a threshold on the dance floor where everything gets turned upside down.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  But I do think that there is an inherent like selfishness. Like, you ever speak to somebody that makes you feel smart?

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  You love speaking to them because of how they make you feel.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  And I think that's partner dancing.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  The same on the dance floor. I don't need to know what I'm doing.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  You make me look good.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  But that's an impossible situation to be in as the guy, because the only way that that can happen is if you allow the girl to lead.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  Wait a minute. Yes. And they don't want to do that. Yeah.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  And then you're like, okay, well, I'm being twirled? That's why I'm gonna sit over there.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna be the, I'm the twirler, not the twirly.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're a twirler, dude.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. Fucking twirl, bro.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  I know. But it's, it's the exact same thing. It's the exact same thing. Like, okay, how curated is the feed allowed to be?

• 16:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  How curated is the profile picture allowed to be?

• 16:54Speaker 00

  But don't you think eventually guys just will get like frustrated, desperate enough that they'll just start talking to girls in the street again? Like, don't you just have to like naturally let this work itself out?

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Probably. I mean, that's, I'm kind of like hands-off. I've been spending a lot of time with the people that do a lot of the research for this for like the last 5 years. It's been interesting. I like human nature and this is a particularly unique cultural flashpoint. It's what's called an evolutionary mismatch. So the environment that we grew up in ancestrally has changed quickly in a very particular way. Lots of opportunities to date, all of the usual cultural guidelines that would have stopped people from going around and, and hot swapping. The apps, the sexual culture, all of that stuff has happened at the same time. And you're like, wow, like there's survival and then there's reproduction. And really, the only reason for the survival bit is the reproduction bit. This is like really core to who we are as humans.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  So if you think, wow, how strong must the new world's weird perverse incentives be to change this thing? Like, kind of literally the only reason that we were put on the, certainly the only reason that any of us are here is because of that same process.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  Maybe it got too easy.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  Same on.

• 17:59Speaker 00

  There's a guy who's posting a picture of him holding a fish on his dating profile. Why does he have that picture? Because it's hard to catch that fucking fish and it's rare that you catch a fish of that size and it's important to him. And that's what dating used to be. If you caught a really nice fish, that was something that you were incredibly excited and proud of. And then now dating is kind of just going to Whole Foods and buying a salmon.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Well, for some people, but apparently not for everyone.

• 18:26Mark Gagnon?

  This guy, he's swiped all these times.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  But don't you think that they have the illusion that it's already there? Like, I think back in the day, like you would go out to a bar, you wouldn't even know if you would see a hot girl.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Well, this is the.

• 18:35Speaker 00

  There was times we were going up where you would go to a bar and there might not be girls there.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  One of the big problems is what people think other people are doing in terms of dating and relationships.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  Huge, huge, huge.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  It's the same thing with, it's called intergenerational competition theory. So looking at how much money this generation has now compared to the money that they think that their parents had at their age.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Not the money that their parents had, it's the money that they think their parents had. And the same thing's true for dating. So this is like, one of the stats that I think is commonly tossed around by manosphere types is the top 20% of guys are getting 80% of the women, right? That there's this sort of Porsche polygamy thing, there's like a small number of men that are capturing. That, I, I cannot find any data or research, none of the guys that I've spoken to. What you do have is something called the socio-sexual few, which is basically about 20% of men between 12 and 15% of women that are just fucking each other. And so the people that are the most outgoing sexually have tons of casual sex.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  And then everybody else either has sex inside of a relationship or no sex at all.

• 19:38Speaker 00

  I think that makes a lot of sense. It's like the outgoing people are connecting with one another and everybody else is sitting around watching, which is kind of like what dating was like when we were younger. But I think that the one change is that even the people that are not outgoing have access. So there are people in their DMs or there are people swiping on them in the apps.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  So more access, but maybe less social capability than ever before.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  More people are nervous, they're introverted, they're not going up and speaking to people.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Like, you know, all of this kind of sounds like woe is me, just like pick yourself up by your bootstraps and go and fucking talk to somebody.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  But the same thing is true that.

• 20:12Speaker 00

  That's really scary. I remember being scared as a kid to like walk up to a girl in front of your friends and like try to think of a witty line.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  Approach anxiety is, I, I don't know whether, because almost no, I mean, approach, guys.

• 20:24Speaker 00

  It's not even the approach, dude. It's the walk back.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Unless you got the number.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  If you got the number, the walk back is fantastic.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  Like Conor McGregor, prime Conor McGregor going out to the ring.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, but you were saying.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, just, I think it's lots of people are nerve wracked by anything social at the moment, spending more time in the house. And you just think about the things that are competing with the discomfort that you would have to go through to go and meet a girl or a guy now. It's like, well, just Netflix. Netflix is really fucking compelling.

• 20:57Speaker 00

  And I can't even choose something on there.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  Isn't that crazy?

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Well, people think, this is kind of fascinating. David Epstein just did a new book that talks about how everyone thinks more optionality means happier life. But actually, the more options that humans have reliably, the less happy they are generally and the less happy they are with their choice. So, for instance, 50 years ago, you go to the jeans store. The jeans store has got one type of jeans.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  It's whatever, pick your waist and like leave with your jeans. You know, well, look, I could have optimized for a better pair of jeans that were more my color or a little bit more the fit I was looking for, but I'm happy with my decision because there were no alternatives. So I have no buyer's regret, buyer's remorse. Roll the clock forward 50 years. Now, do you want skinny, stretched, bleached, cropped? Do you want them in dark? Do you want them in stone washed? And you go in and if you manage to choose a pair of jeans, in the back of your mind, there is always this, wow, fuck, you know, like that flat pair, they were pretty fucking, they were pretty sick. They might be coming back in, they might have a glow up in a couple of years, they're going to the gym. And I think that this, it's called nexting, like looking over the shoulder of who you're with to peer at who's coming next.

• 22:02Speaker 00

  What you don't have.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, what's that line? That the average man will be exposed to 100 times more women in one day.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  This is so true.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  Than our ancestors would have been maybe their entire life.

• 22:13Speaker 00

  Where'd you grow up in England?

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Northeast of the UK, Stockton, Stockton.

• 22:17Speaker 00

  How many people are in Stockton?

• 22:18Speaker 02

  100,000.

• 22:19Speaker 00

  How many kids in your high school?

• 22:23Speaker 02

  300.

• 22:24Speaker 00

  So in your grade, and the grade maybe below you, and maybe below that one, there's probably 12 total girls that fit your attraction matrix.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Maybe.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  I mean, I was 18, I think my standards were probably pretty low.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  But you had to adjust them, right? You didn't have the entire internet and you could go to all these other little towns. Like you knew the girls that you were attracted to and you were like, oh my God, if I can talk to one of them and get them to go on a date with me, I am the luckiest guy. This is amazing. You feel so grateful, you start a fucking life with them. Now you have, you can set your dating profile to a country you're gonna go to in three weeks. There's no way that you could possibly feel comfortable settling down if you have that little thing in the back of your head. What is it, looking over the shoulder?

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Nexting.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  Nexting.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, just.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  What's over there?

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. What is that? What is that? Maybe it could be a little bit better. And then it's constantly being advertised to you all the time. And I don't know whether this is true or not. I'd be interested to get your guys' thoughts. There's an argument that the, at least over the last decade and a half, the centrality of romance, even in stories that don't really need it, every single series, I'm sure you guys have pitched shows and stuff to networks and things, and at some point, I bet they've asked, like, who's the, who's the love, who's the love interest? Is there a romantic line? I don't know whether that's dying down a little bit now with this kind of a bit of a pushback against coupling as a cultural phenomenon, but that seems to me to be maybe contributing to it that everything is about romance, which makes it pressurized.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  But I think everything's always been about romance. I mean, like, people have a fascination with relationships. You see famous people that continue to couple up and then their fans continue to be part of this, like, even you look at like Spider-Man, which is incredibly successful, great movie, but I think part of the success is like you see this incredibly famous couple that you don't actually get to look at their regular lives and this is your only opportunity to like witness their camaraderie and chemistry.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Have you ever seen Zendaya looking at his hand when he shows how he shoots a web out of his finger in an interview? Oh my God, I can't believe I get to show you this clip. This is the most Andrew Schulz clip that I think I've ever seen in my entire life. Not kidding.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  That's why when I shoot webs in the suit, I don't do this.

• 24:38Speaker 00

  Yo, chill out, bro.

• 24:41Speaker 04

  I don't do that.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  That's fire.

• 24:45Speaker 00

  But wait a minute, but this is great.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  This movie's so much better.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  I know. But this is just every time that, what's her name? What's the character's name that she plays?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  MJ.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  MJ. Every time that he's like swinging through the thing and she's holding him, she's like not even looking at him or the explosions going off around, she's just watching the hands.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Throwing webs, dude, that's sick.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  Absolutely sick.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  But your information is not lining up from what I'm hearing from people dating. So I'm hearing everybody has a roster. I'm hearing everybody, well, not everybody, the people I know. Girls are dating a bunch of guys, guys are dating a bunch of girls, but they're all next to them. So like none can like lock one down.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  Do you think that your friend group is representative for the normal person?

• 25:24Speaker 00

  Nope. I don't, I would say maybe they go out a little bit more, but not like outside.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  Would they be more high value, high status than sort of the normal?

• 25:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  The median American?

• 25:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm just thinking that a lot of the time that is socio-sexual or at the very least social few. Like they're people that have got lots going on, they're well-integrated to a local community, they've probably got a little bit of disposable income, they certainly live in a fucking cool city. Interesting one about New York City, the sex ratio is beginning to be so skewed that women are having to go to like really extreme lengths. I'm sure you've seen that they're going and stealing finance bros salads.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Bro, there's a bar in my area.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  What?

• 26:07Speaker 00

  It is a sports bar, lovely little sports bar, a pub you would probably call it. And this is a place where I could never imagine a woman going. Okay? Not because it's not a lovely place, but it's the type of place you would imagine a bunch of guys watching the game, hanging out with each other, just shooting the shit.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Walnut counter.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  Exactly that, cheers.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  Yes, yep.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  It is women pouring out of it. And I think part of it is that they're trying to find.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  They're trying to reverse the sex ratio locally.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  It's near the finance, all the finance, young finance guys are going there to drink after work, whatever. And I think the girls are going like, hey, these are where the guys that we want to eventually have relationships with.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  This is it. Woman says NYC dating scene is so bad, women are stealing men's salads. Please step out or you could be pinged by an ad.

• 26:57Speaker 05

  City that I'm seeing on TikTok, there are girls going into Midtown during the week and stealing finance bros salads for lunch. And then looking their name up from the salad order on LinkedIn and then messaging them through there and being like, hey, oh my God, so sorry, grabbed your salad.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  This is your boys.

• 27:18Speaker 05

  Let me just make it up to you.

• 27:19Speaker 00

  No, that's, that's crazier than what I thought it was. I thought she meant they take the salad and then the guy comes up and goes, oops, I think you actually got my salad. And then they're having a social interaction.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  No, you have to go through LinkedIn. There's an intermediary.

• 27:35Speaker 00

  Yo, hitting up a guy through LinkedIn is diabolic.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  The intermediary, they're like.

• 27:40Speaker 00

  Right, could have sourced that.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Dude, the human centipede being a salad at the start, LinkedIn in the middle and a date at the end is kind of crazy.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's wild. Have you seen the guys that are doing like, they're doing like Tinder optimization? They're like, they're, they're marketing themselves being like, hey, your Tinder sucks, your Hinge sucks, your Bumble sucks, and I'm gonna fix it.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cool.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  And then they take a guy on like.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Like photo shoots, do a photo shoot.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  They go to a restaurant, they take photos, they go do an activity that you like, take photos, they help you with your bio, they curate the whole thing. And apparently they've had like massive success.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah? Competitive about them. But I think what's, what's interesting about your group of friends and probably a lot of the people that like watching this, this pod, like, well, hang on, that's not what I understand. And yet that is the experience, like massive amounts of people, like a huge, huge swath of people. And I think this is where the issue lies, that on one side, you have a group of people who have one problem of abundance, too many options, no one will commit.

• 28:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  And then on the other side, you have a problem of nervousness, isolation, introversion, and uncertainty around the world. And like both of them are going like, I don't know what you're talking about, I can't get anybody to commit. I don't, well, at least you've even got options. And this is why, you said this earlier on, but sorry, you said this earlier on, that a lot of the wars between the sexes just feel like the, if not being artificially fueled, like very serendipitous timing to like continue to drive men and women apart.

• 29:04Speaker 00

  I'm coming to Birmingham. Alabama, November 6th and 7th. TheAndrewSchultz.com for that.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Also, guys, great news. I am on the road as well. I will be in Pasadena, California, San Diego, Detroit and Salt Lake City coming up in the next two months. Come on out, take, shake my hand, take a pick. I'll see you guys at the show. Peace.

• 29:26Speaker 06

  Prize picks packs are here. Rip digital packs and get real basketball, football and Pokemon cards on Prize picks packs. Available now nationwide. Once you see your pool, you have a choice to sell back instantly for real cash or ship it home. Cash from your sale will immediately be added to your prize picks balance. It's just another way to run your game. New users, download the prize picks app today and use code Spotify to get $25 instantly in bonus packs when you buy your first $5 pack. Prize picks, run your game. 18 plus eligible areas. Terms apply. Collect responsibly.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  I never thought about the way that, like with AI replacing jobs, I never thought about it as like this clean sweep. What I've thought about more is that like, it's gonna make high functioning people 100x more functioning. Like I've already noticed that with people outside of the workplace. Like Tanya here, for example, she's using some AI app that like constantly peppers resi for reservations. And it's doing it 24 hours a day at any time.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  How many meals do you need?

• 30:25Speaker 00

  It's not about how many, it's about if it's a really coveted restaurant, eventually something's gonna slide open.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  You're the guy that's knocking on the door all the time.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Nonstop. You're knocking nonstop. So to me, I'm just like, oh, wow. She found a way to outsource.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Jose Andres has got a fucking fatwa out on you because you were.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  100%, 100%. Shout out Jose. I like that guy. But like, but like to me, I'm like, oh, that's a high, that's a really high. She found a way for someone else to do a thing that she usually does. And now she's not even managing it. It manages, she gets a notification if it's a restaurant she really wants to go to, which she already told to go. Now she ends up going. And I think what the AI revolution will actually be, and I could be completely wrong, I have no data back this, but it will be people who are high functioning, being able to do six jobs instead of one. And then those people being incredibly highly coveted. And now those jobs are less. But it does create an opportunity for you to be in a position that is a lower position and prove that you could handle much more.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  If you can do the AI thing really well, it's basically the modern equivalent of learn to code, but it's for everybody, right? You don't need to be a coder. It could be an assistant. It can be a manager. It can be an HR person. And you're right, there'll be huge pushback if companies start letting go of staff. I think Jack Dorsey announced a few months ago that he got rid of like basically 50% of his workforce. He's like, we're agentizing our entire, half of our business and sorry, you haven't got a job anymore.

• 31:46Speaker 00

  The workforce has gone away, but aren't there gonna be new jobs surrounding the opportunities that tech presents? Like it, it, I don't think it's as simple as.

• 31:53Mark Gagnon?

  But look what you just said. You just said a person can find a way to do six jobs. So what happens to the other five jobs that were people?

• 31:59Speaker 00

  What I think is that you could have five more, you can now hire five more people.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  But why would you?

• 32:05Speaker 00

  Why would you? Because you want to scale your business. Naturally, you're gonna want to scale. Look, I haven't, I'm trying to have an optimistic approach. And I'm aware my bias with it is, hey, guys, you know.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Watch the fuck out.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Not, not even watch the fuck out. It's more like tech revolution could create, I, I hope it creates opportunity for more people to do more things. I, I understand that I'm looking at this through rose colored glasses because I don't want to go, we're all gonna fucking die. Nobody's gonna have a job and seven people are gonna control the world.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Approach is.

• 32:33Speaker 00

  I think, I think you're right, by the way. What I'm trying to say is, I would hope that now you have five more people that you can hire that can also continue to scale your business. And it's not simply, let's cut the workforce and then continue where we are.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Anyone that says that they know what's gonna happen with the future of AI in the workforce, the AI, full stop, but AI in the workforce is, I, I don't think that you can make any definitive statements about what's gonna happen. What might happen, the equivalent of that, but on the like black pilly, gray pill side, is not they'll get rid of members of staff because that would cause huge uproar inside of the organization, public relations scandal. But what is likely to happen is that over time, they just hire less and they allow people to phase out.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  That's interesting.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  Out of the top. And then the staff base just slowly shrinks as efficiency increases and margins increase. Yeah. Fewer people are being hired.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. That seems like a more likely, I mean, it's just weird because like I see us here, like being able to use certain things to make the jobs better and more productive. And in no way am I going, we should hire less people.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Can't wait for fucking AI Tanya to come so that I can fuck her up.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  No, I'm like, I'm like, well, Tanya, what could you do with two other people that could also do, like, how could we use this and scale? But again, we're not a ruthless corporation that has 10,000 people and then could increase, what is it?

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Your labor cost is some huge percentage of your business.

• 33:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that, wow, yeah, that sucks. All right.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  So that's, that's kind of, that's gonna be a challenge and especially whoever, it doesn't matter who it is. Like if it was the truth, that it was mostly gonna come for truck drivers. Like the Truck Driver Association, the community of people that drive trucks would be fucking pissed when that happened. And that would be now a flashpoint for the culture war, except for the fact that I don't think truck drivers like make that many TikToks and sort of chirp about it online that much.

• 34:22Speaker 00

  Well, this is the, this is the kind of take I have, which is like, for the last like 60 years, we've watched technological advancements hollow out cities in America, but it was blue collar jobs. So everybody was like, oh, this is what happens. And the second it came for graphic designers, they're all like, we gotta stop AI immediately. Like when all of Detroit lost their jobs over a weekend because they sent the factories to Mexico, nobody cared. What, what was this? Learn to code was the thing that they told the coal miners.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Now they're telling coders like, dude, learn to drive.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  Learn to fucking drive. Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Learn to truck immediately.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  But like, if I was a blue collar worker, I'd be fucking pissed, man. You guys told me to fuck off when technology took away my job.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  You know the idea of luxury beliefs? You heard of this? So Rob Henderson's popularized this recently. It's the same as a person who lives in a gated community saying, defund the police.

• 35:12Speaker 00

  Or build a wall. No, or saying that we shouldn't build a wall. It's like, he's in a gated community.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Bingo, bingo, bingo. It allows you, it's beliefs that confer status on the upper class while giving costs, real world costs to the lower class.

• 35:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  And what you see is this interesting inversion of it when if you automate jobs of blue collar people, well, like they're not the chattering class that exists on Twitter and make TikToks. And then if you do the inverse of that, you go, oh, no, they're coming. Remember when they dumped all of those people in Martha's Vineyard? It's basically the equivalent of that, but for your jobs.

• 35:47Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah, yeah. That is so true. And that is the, we do get annoyed at that hypocrisy. Like I think you see that a lot, like the people in the protected gated communities telling people to defund the police.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 00

  It's like, all right, bro, well.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  It's the entitlement. It's a degree and that is entitlement.

• 36:04Speaker 00

  It's the virtue signaling too. It's like, you want to be rich and liked. And that's greedy.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  You get to pick one.

• 36:12Speaker 00

  You get to pick one. Like everybody could like you or you can be insanely rich, but you don't get to do both. That's just not how human beings exist. Like no one likes the king.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  I think.

• 36:24Speaker 00

  You just tolerate it.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  I've been thinking about this more recently. The distaste for billionaires has never been, and maybe there's, they've not been quite so public. Maybe there's not been so many of them or whatever, but I have never seen as much skepticism, pushback, distaste for people who are like extreme wealthy. And I think that that's like a massive function of this haves and have nots, inequality. I can't fucking buy a house and this person's bought another island.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  I, I, I think, I think it's also like

• 36:55Speaker 00

  America for the last maybe few hundred years, everybody thought they were gonna be a millionaire. Like, and that was the hope. That was the dream. Like it didn't matter. You just thought it. You're like, okay, maybe this is not in every single rural place, but there was a little part of you like, I might win the Lotto. I might do, there was always a maybe here in America. It could happen to me. I can go viral and TikTok and then I end up doing this. I go on fucking America's Got Talent and then I got a show in Vegas. Like there was this little feeling of like, I might. And I think this generation is, is kind of feels a little bit more like, I got no chance to be. So fuck them.

• 37:30Mark Gagnon?

  It's not just the feeling, the numbers prove it as well.

• 37:33Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 37:33Mark Gagnon?

  So the way data support as well. It used to be a lot closer and now it's like the past 40 years, it's like.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Between the sort of median American worker and then like the CEO or whatever.

• 37:44Mark Gagnon?

  It's like, it's just going like that.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  I think it'd be interesting to look at.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  But would you agree with that sentiment that we had? Like in America, this idea, the delusional optimism that like, you're gonna fucking make it. That's why all our family came here as well, you know?

• 37:59Mark Gagnon?

  But even the CEO was closer. Like you can actually see the CEO. So you can strive for that.

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:04Mark Gagnon?

  How can you strive to be Elon right now?

• 38:06Speaker 00

  Well, that's the thing that like.

• 38:07Mark Gagnon?

  Like that doesn't even seem.

• 38:08Speaker 00

  That's the thing about like the billionaire class or whoever we want to talk. It's like. They got a responsibility to make sure people think they could make it. Cause the second they don't, they're at your house with the pitchfork. Like this is, this is, you know, the story is old as time. It's like the second Americans stop believing they can make it, you're dead. Well, that's why they're building the bunkers. You don't build the bunker if you don't think they're gonna come for you. There was the guy, Larry Ellison bought an island in Hawaii. Like not a plot, style it, right? So it's like, at a certain point in time, you can't squeeze people. Or if you are gonna squeeze, I'm not, I hope, I don't ever squeeze people.

• 38:51Speaker 00

  But they have to believe they can get out.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  One of the disadvantages that you have is you're so far away from the normal person. Like just the median American, right? Like the average American adult is divorced with less than one K in the bank. Like that's the average American, that's the fucking average.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:08Mark Gagnon?

  Holy shit.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  That means, what is the likelihood that anybody in the top 1% has ever, in the last 20 years? Like, the reason that you have constructed your life that way is so you don't need to interact with those people. You have staff, staff that make sure they shoo them away from the front door or whatever it is before you leave the house.

• 39:25Speaker 00

  And you're surprised they're investing in crypto. You shouldn't be surprised.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's my moonshot.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  This is.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  It's my moonshot, it's the way that I can do it. So there was an interesting analysis done on financial niches on YouTube. Twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, it was all slow investing, 401K, S and P. And then over the last six years, I think, but like spurred on by all your NFTs. But like now it is get rich quick. I think maybe 50% of guys under the age of 25 say that the way they're going to get rich is online gambling.

• 40:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're gonna, they're gonna fucking parlay themselves into wealth.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, I'm gonna polymarket my way to like Elon's rocket. Like that's literally it.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's not good.

• 40:08Mark Gagnon?

  If you've got some insider information, you might, it might work out.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  That's true. If you subscribe to Truth Social.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, which is fucking insane.

• 40:16Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  Is that actually still happening? Is that a?

• 40:19Speaker 02

  I don't know about that. I mean, it was kind of expensive as well, right?

• 40:22Speaker 00

  It's a hundred grand.

• 40:23Mark Gagnon?

  Hundred grand.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I mean, it's a drop in a bucket if you're some financial institution that's gonna use that. Cause they're already finding ways within a fraction of a second to make a trade before you make it.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Moving the exchanges a little bit closer so the fiber optic cable has the speed of light cut down by a couple of microseconds.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  That's not even sarcasm, that's legit.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Exactly what they do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's, there's edges everywhere. So anyway, I mean, we probably portrayed a pretty ugly future for both men and women here. What's like, what's some white pills that you guys think might be coming down the pipe? So I, I have, I have one from a friend, which is techno pastoralism. So this is the future, this is Libbry's idea, is a world's champion poker player. And she basically thinks that, or her hope is that AI ushers in this new era of like people just growing stuff in their garden. Everybody's given a living wage to some degree. And we get back to around the campfire, candles at dinner. Everyone realizes actually when I don't need to play the silly status games. This is her very rosy white pill view of it. So that's one of them, that everyone's gonna become a gardener and a botanist and.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  I don't know if it's gardener and botanist, but I think that there, I hope what will come with it is a, like a self reliance. Because now we have access to information in a way that we never had. So like, Al blew my mind the other day, like Alex has podcast studios. And like, Al just will build his own studios. And I'm like, what do you mean build them? And he's like, no, I like, I found a way to set up these racks and I can actually get this pipe from this company and I can hang in. It's just as functional when I do all these things. And my whole time I was assumed that you hired a construction company to do the things. It's my estimation, you're learning all this on YouTube. Dove was doing some stuff for his house in the Hamptons and he was taking pictures of it and talking to ChatGPT.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  And he found out that there was a leak from his pool and this, like, so there is, what I hope happens is this next generation has this like really incredible self reliance, which is I can figure it out on my own. And I have all the tools to do that available to me in a fraction of a second. And what do you end up doing with that? If you wanna start something, there's, the barrier to entry is incredibly low. And the knowledge to start it is right at your fucking fingertips.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  My favorite word for that is permissionless. Like there is no permission that's needed for most things.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  Look at the movie, the obsession movie that made fucking 300 million dollars. It's like, what I hope is we see a bunch of that. What I hope is we see a bunch of young creators do it, like entrepreneurs do it. And I hope that they all do it with access to this information that was fucking hard to get. Like dude, when we were doing the little rants back in the day with the internet, we were fucking signing up.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Pages of research.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  Oh my, how many different subscriptions with the Atlantic over here, this one, this is just to read fucking articles. Now it's as simple as just going, well, what happened with the straight of our moose? And you get.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, thank you.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  Two seconds, like, so what I hope is it, obviously there's gonna be some restructuring. But I hope that there'll be like this confidence that comes with knowing you could do something yourself. You know, sometimes, I don't know if you ever feel this way, but like sometimes you could feel a little bit infantilized, like in my own house. I don't know how to fucking do the AC, you know what I mean? Like I remember, I never changed it.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  So how are you gonna get the bitches around?

• 43:43Speaker 00

  I'm married.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  No, but like, you know what I mean? It's like, I'm, I'm never, I'm never in my fucking apartment when I am, I'm just running around with my kids. So it's like, my wife knows how to do everything in the apartment. She knows, and like, and there is like.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Oh, that's funny.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  There was this feeling where you're just like.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  Emasculated inside of your own home somewhat.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel that way and that's on me. And I imagine you extrapolate that to life. But now you have a generation of kids will be able to have access to all the information and every answer they could possibly want on the internet direct, not even just the internet, looking at YouTube videos. We're talking about like, you ask some fucking language model how to do some stuff and right there.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  You should send the wife and the kids away on a holiday. And you should take a holiday from the show just to live in the house and just do stuff. To like speedrun your experience level and see if you can become like a level three AC engineer. Like, like hit the pipes a bit, see if you can, oh yeah, yeah, that's how I fix them, come back together. And you're like, honey, daddy's home.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Honestly, I need to do that because like my wife knows too much about boilers.

• 44:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, that was the nicest way to call somebody a bitch.

• 44:50Speaker 00

  I got that high five was crazy. I've never seen that one.

• 44:54Mark Gagnon?

  I was going for that.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  You gotta, you gotta.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  He's from England, bro, they don't have them over there.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  He's an American now. Are you an American?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Uh, no, oh one, but I'm gonna go for my green card next year.

• 45:05Speaker 00

  No, but like spiritually.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  That's a good question. So I kind of forget that I'm a foreigner because I speak the same language as you guys. So it is true, like you move from one country to another. If you're in Argentina or Japan or whatever, you are permanently reminded that you're not from that. Because you're walking around, you're having to fucking translate stuff and even if people speak, it's broken English.

• 45:24Mark Gagnon?

  There's a blood and soil thing, you know, like there's like, for real, like you go to Spain and you're like, oh no, these people are indigenous to this land for thousands of years.

• 45:31Speaker 00

  You could be Korean, born three generations in Japan, you'll never be Japanese.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Well, that's what happens when you lock a country down for like four centuries and don't let anybody in or out.

• 45:40Speaker 00

  But brothers, that's every country except America and the UK really. And maybe Australia, but like we have a.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  They imported them.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  But like, it is, it is a unique thing that we have here, which is like, you could just be born here and then you're American, which I love. But I also think you don't even need to be born here. I think you're American when you accept you're not going home.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Well, I, at the moment.

• 46:03Speaker 00

  Do you, there are, there are people from the UK that will like live an international life and they live in America and they work here. But like in their head, they're like, oh, you know, one day.

• 46:13Mark Gagnon?

  You gotta burn the boats, Cortez style.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  Low key, that's what makes you American. It's like, once you decide to burn the boats.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  Well, that's who everybody that came here, or that you guys have descended of, like if you're, your family's been here for a long enough time. It was a group of people who said.

• 46:27Speaker 00

  I'll never see my family again.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  I'm gonna go on a six week boat journey with like mixed reviews on what the other side's like.

• 46:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure, I, I'm down, I'll do that. So yeah, it's, it's kind of strange, you forget.

• 46:39Mark Gagnon?

  Some voluntary, some involuntary. Boat journey, none the less.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  It was about six weeks.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, mixed reviews. There was some that were on the upper decks and then I think there were some that were more.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:51Mark Gagnon?

  And we never saw our families again as well.

• 46:55Speaker 00

  But isn't that like what really makes you American is this idea like I'm not going back home? So if you see your life here, your family here, everything, yes, obviously you need to go through the paperwork and do all the necessary things, but like.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Culturally.

• 47:08Speaker 00

  That's what makes you spiritually an American.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  I think the, the American affliction is bullshit, but the American advantage is enthusiasm.

• 47:18Speaker 00

  What's the American affliction?

• 47:20Speaker 02

  That you guys have because of the enthusiasm, which is both sides of the same coin. Like the British advantage is humility, but the British affliction is cynicism. It's too much of the, the feet on the ground. America can sometimes be too much of the head in the clouds, which is how you don't ever end up with somebody like Grant Cardone coming out of the UK. Right? That, that, that era of Guy, the Jordan Belforts type thing. Like for instance, let me give you this.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Twenty twenty five, America is 4% of the world's population, but produced 50% of the millionaires. 4% of the world's population, 50% of millionaires last year. Twenty twenty four, America, sorry, the UK is 0.8% of the world's population. But it contributed nearly one in 10 of millionaires leaving their home country. Right? It's tiny, well, we're second only to China and China's like 10 times bigger than we are, 15 times bigger than we are. So my point being like, America is all self belief, high conviction, enthusiasm. Everyone's just had a line of cocaine, it's like a triple espresso country.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  They're very much a triple espresso country. Whereas the UK is more like a morning gin country. It's like sort of not really, but that's good, keeps your feet on the ground. Anyway, my, I, I love being here, I love being around people that are really enthusiastic, like being supported. Some people need bringing back down a peg or two, like Piers Morgan, for instance, I had this debate with him. And he said, I, I feel like I actually quite like the piss taking. And I'm like, yeah, that's because you need it, like you have a big ego, like you have this thing that's bigger than you, like self identified. I am a big ego guy and it's probably good for you to be brought down a peg or two. But then there's another cohort of people that are like.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  If you had twice the self-belief, you'd make 10 times the money.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  And it's okay. Where do you need to be? Like, do you want more of the affliction or do you want more of the advantage?

• 49:09Speaker 00

  Also, 10 times the money doesn't necessarily mean billionaire. 10 times the money might be like, I want to open a coffee shop.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Yep, I love. I want to believe that I can open a coffee shop.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  And you can't do that.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  It's harder. It's harder. You need to like, the gravity is heavier. So this is why I'm going back on tour around the UK and islands next month and I'm.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  You're gonna tell them.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  I'm gonna try and re-import, I'm gonna make enthusiasm great again.

• 49:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. But isn't that like, isn't that kind of what happens with old countries?

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Thousand years without being invaded? Yeah, that's.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  No, no, I mean, like for thousands of years, you kind of settle to like a nice middle ground where you go, you know, we gotta, we can't go so high because the higher we go, the lower we go. So we're just kind of like structured right here in the middle. And the cost of that is you might not have all the billionaires. But the benefit is you don't have the grand cardons. And you won't have the extreme poverty that you see here.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  That's true. Yeah, I think the UK, and nowhere is good to be poor in. But the UK is a great country relatively to be poor in and not a very good country to be rich in. And America is a bad country to be poor in and a great country to be rich in.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  But I also think that's because of our accent. Like you can sound rich and be poor where you're from.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  That is true.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  It is, you know what I mean? Like, like, poor people can sound sophisticated in England.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  That's true. Having a British accent is the greatest form of international fraud.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  There is no like rich accent in America.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Like WASPs still really have one. The most famous accents are working class.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  You spend a good bit of time in the UK. You don't need to spend that long to be able to realize, huh, it's sort of done by locality, but then it's like stratified out within locality by something else. And that's where did you go to school? What did your parents do for a job? One of my favorite tricks to do with my other British friends at dinner, especially if we're with Americans and there's a new Brit that comes in, well, like sit and listen for a little bit. And we'll go, watch this. We go, did you go to private school? Yeah. So Cambridge, Oxford area? Yeah. How do you know? It's just the ability for the British minds to like reverse engineer where I am in the class status hierarchy.

• 51:15Speaker 00

  It's in your blood.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  It is to a degree, or at least we exported it somewhere.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  And cricket, you know, the good with the bad.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Very good. Very good. A lot of the ex-colonies have played well with that. Yeah. So you can, you can really like reverse engineer this person that came in.

• 51:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  And, and that's like, that's good and bad, but it makes you think, who the fuck am I to be able to get above my station?

• 51:37Speaker 00

  All right, guys, take a break for a second. I'll be honest. Been doing hair treatment for a while now. Once you start noticing you're bald and you think about it every time you take a photo, take off your hat, and that's why I'm into what Hims is doing. Hair loss is different for every guy. So Hims doesn't treat it like it's all the same. Your plan could include finasteride, an ingredient shown to stop hair loss. That's what I've been taking. And minoxidil, an ingredient used to regrow hair in as little as three to six months. They combine them into a plan built for you. Getting started is easy. To answer a few questions online and connect with a licensed provider who decides if the treatment is right for you.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  If it's prescribed, it ships straight to your door. No pharmacy trips, no insurance needed. You also get 24/7 access to message your medical team so you're not guessing between refills. Treatment starts at just $35 a month. A bargain to keep your hair. It's the difference between hoping something works and knowing it is. Be prepared, be strong, be confident, be him. Ready to be him? Visit hims.com/flagrant to get a personalized affordable care for weight loss, hair loss, and more. That is H I M S dot com slash flagrant. H I M S dot com slash flagrant.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  Also, nobody taught me anything about money as a kid. None of my friends learned anything about money as kids. It was something we all had to learn far too late in life. And we probably missed out on decades of savings because of it. You don't want your kids figuring it out like that. Cash App now offers managed accounts for kids ages six to 12 that grow with them all the way to adulthood, all with no subscription fees because building money habits shouldn't cost extra. The account runs through you. So you're not just watching from the sidelines, you're actually in it with them. That's what makes it a real teaching tool. Every time money comes in or goes out, it's a chance to talk about it together.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  You set spending limits and you can lock or unlock their Cash App Visa card anytime from your own app. Automate their allowance and track the flow of money in and out together. Kids can start building real saving habits early by earning interest on savings. So when you're explaining the difference between spending now versus saving for later, they can actually see their money grow. Whether it's birthday money from grandma, allowance for finally cleaning their room, or saving up for something they really want, you see it all and help guide the decisions along the way. Their savings habits and history carry forward every step of the way. From a parent managed account at six, to a teen account at 13, to a full account at 18.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  It's structured independence. They get real life practice with money and you're right there with them through every stage. For a limited time, new Cash App customers who are parents can use our exclusive referral code, family10turn10, $10. Download Cash App, enter the referral code in your profile, send $5 to a friend within 14 days, and you'll receive $10. Terms apply.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  All right, now that we know who's doing the Super Bowl.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Which we were right about, by the way.

• 55:01Speaker 00

  We did say it, right?

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. We said Jay was gonna give it to himself.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  When did we do that?

• 55:05Speaker 01

  I have no idea. Someone just DM'd me that. They were like, you were right. So I'm claiming it.

• 55:08Speaker 00

  All right, we did it. We claimed it. We said it here first. We said it here first.

• 55:12Mark Gagnon?

  I'll take it.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  How can they check? They can't fact check.

• 55:14Speaker 00

  How do you feel about the reaction to this?

• 55:16Mark Gagnon?

  I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:20Mark Gagnon?

  I feel he should have just waited a year or something like that.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  Give it to, give it to some fucking.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  What do you mean? He's a goat. You don't want the goat to perform at the halftime?

• 55:28Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but do it next year.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Why?

• 55:31Mark Gagnon?

  It's just.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Are you a hater now?

• 55:33Mark Gagnon?

  No, I want to have him, but it's like, I want it to be, I want him to feel embraced and right now he doesn't feel embraced.

• 55:39Speaker 00

  But isn't it emblematic of like everything that young people are frustrated by? Which is like billionaires and powerful people like looking out for themselves and enriching themselves.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  So I think it's like.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Are you saying Jay-Z pulled a Trump, dude? Enriched his family?

• 55:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, is that what he's doing?

• 55:55Mark Gagnon?

  You don't get paid.

• 55:57Speaker 00

  That's true, but when that album comes out Monday.

• 56:01Mark Gagnon?

  That's not confirmed.

• 56:03Speaker 00

  So who, who's he gonna bring out? Who's gonna?

• 56:06Speaker 01

  Well, Kelsey says that they got Beyonce at 64%.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  He gotta bring Beyonce.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  That's smart.

• 56:11Speaker 00

  Alicia, 100%.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Pharrell, 56%.

• 56:14Mark Gagnon?

  I think Eminem should be at the top.

• 56:17Speaker 00

  I think M, I don't think M is doing another like, I'm a guest appearance.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Especially because he did it with 50.

• 56:23Speaker 00

  Exactly. Like, I don't think he's doing another guest appearance at the.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  They have a 9%.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  Yo, Linkin Park is an interesting one.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  Linkin Park is an unexpected, absolute.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  And bridges everyone.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  It bridges everybody.

• 56:37Mark Gagnon?

  That album didn't age well.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  But that song though.

• 56:41Speaker 00

  All right, what else?

• 56:41Mark Gagnon?

  They had a whole album.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you just need on one. You just need that one. I mean, they got Drake at 6%. Let's go.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  That would shut it down. BTS, yo, Jay-Z and BTS.

• 56:54Speaker 00

  Fire.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  4%, I'm putting money on BTS.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  What about Logic? You said Logic was on there.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Well, they, they're disrespecting my boy Bobby.

• 57:00Speaker 00

  So nobody's putting Logic on.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  0%.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  I'm gonna change that.

• 57:04Mark Gagnon?

  They put Drake over Logic. It's crazy.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  You could make crazy money. You could get a bag if you, if Logic pulls up.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  I think we gotta drop a little something.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  You drop a little 100 beans on Logic and he comes out, oh my, you retire your whole family.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  Now, what if he just? What if he just shows up at the Super Bowl? Like, what if he's in the crowd?

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, what counts is performing.

• 57:23Speaker 00

  And then he does his song while Jay's performing.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  At the same time.

• 57:26Speaker 00

  He's doing his own song.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  So we call Bobby. We say, hey, I have a proposal.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  Bro, run it.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  I'm gonna cut you in. All you gotta do is run on stage and perform. Whatever you have to do to get on that stage.

• 57:37Speaker 00

  We are, we're gonna put $100 down. We have a chance to win a billion dollars.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  All you have to do is find a way.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Buy the, buy the NFL.

• 57:46Speaker 00

  Buy anything.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  You could buy the whole NFL.

• 57:47Speaker 00

  Find a way to get on that stage and just perform your song.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:52Speaker 00

  That's a great idea.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  I've been out ahead. I've been doing my mind. That one? If he does the suicide song?

• 57:57Mark Gagnon?

  I don't need to know a single Logic song.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  Who can relate? Who can relate?

• 58:00Speaker 01

  You don't know about that one? That's a banger.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  You hate him, bro. You hate him.

• 58:04Mark Gagnon?

  You know a Logic song, say a Logic song right there.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  Who can relate?

• 58:06Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, you just repeat his, say one more thing.

• 58:08Speaker 00

  Who can relate? I don't even know. I'm mine. I don't wanna be alive.

• 58:15Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 58:16Speaker 00

  Come on, son. You're hating, you're a Jay-Z dick gobbler.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:21Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, y'all wanna stop with that shit?

• 58:22Speaker 00

  Let's get back to the show right now. Fuck y'all, dawg.

• 58:24Speaker 06

  Prize picks packs are here. Rip digital packs and get real basketball, football, and Pokemon cards on Prize Picks packs. Available now nationwide. Once you see your pool, you have a choice to sell back instantly for real cash or ship at home. Cash from your sale will immediately be added to your Prize Picks balance. It's just another way to run your game. New users, download the Prize Picks app today and use code SPOTIFY to get $25 instantly in bonus packs when you buy your first $5 pack. Prize Picks, run your game. 18 plus eligible areas. Terms apply. Collect responsibly.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  Like, I'll, I'll never be, good point. I'll never, ever be anything other than lower working class in the UK, ever.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  What do you mean by that?

• 59:03Speaker 02

  I grew up lower working class.

• 59:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Because of what my parents did. It doesn't matter, eighth, number eight, Spotify, do the shows, have the podcast. I will always be lower working class. I went to a state primary, state secondary, state sixth form college. So the first person in my family to complete university, but I will always be lower working class.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Is that why like getting knighted is so important? Is that your ascension out of whatever you were born in?

• 59:30Speaker 02

  Well, that's interesting. Maybe.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  You become a sir, right? If you get knighted, is that the idea?

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, then you get the two OBEs and MBEs. I have no idea what that stands for, but that's like mini knighthoods type thing. It's like a recognition from the crown or the state.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  Like in America, like there's no knighthood because you really make yourself whatever you can.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Kind of like college degree and then net worth is knighthood.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Why did you go to college?

• 59:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  What did you do?

• 59:55Speaker 00

  Also, it's not, it's not where do you go to college? It's like, did you go to these 10 schools?

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Well, and then everything else is essentially community college would be seen slightly differently to like a UT or something, and then you would have, would you not be stratified down into?

• 1:00:08Speaker 00

  Look, community college is not, we don't consider going to college. That's like before you go to college. It's like you go there for two years and then you actually go to college.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  It's because you, community college, you get a associate's degree. I think you graduate that for two years.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  It's like high school plus.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's actually what a lot of Americans low key should be doing. Like in California, they're smart with it. Like they'll go to community college for two years and then they'll go to fucking USC or UCLA.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  Get some super sneaky discount thing as well, right?

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  It is.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  And automatic admission.

• 1:00:38Speaker 00

  Automatic admissions, you have your GPA and then you get state tuition to some of the best schools on the fucking planet. It's like, why anybody would do that if they didn't know what they're going to major? The only reason you go to college is if your parents are out there, if your parents are going to pay for it or if you want to just fuck. Like which is a reasonable thing to do in college. You know, I went to UC Santa Barbara.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  There is a sex recession going on.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  But yeah, it's like there's, there's Ivy League schools and then there's like MIT and Stanford. And it's like, those are the ones where if you went there, it means something culturally to us a little bit.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  I wonder if you're hitting on something there, which is part of the reason that British people maybe don't have the same blue sky hopefulness. Maybe it's cultural, maybe it's whatever. But the other part is like, what's the point? Like, why? If no matter what I do, I can never reach escape velocity from where I was born, what my parents did.

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  I'm like tethered to this area for the rest of time. Whereas in America, you have the opposite. Whereas you're like, I can make something of myself. So there's this cool story from Alain de Botton from The School of Life, and he says.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  What? No, I know he's, I think he's going to bring up this point that you were about to say.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  About the ancient Greeks, the ancient Greek word for loser. Yeah, so they, when walking around the streets of ancient Greece, they would refer to the people that were the beggars on the street as unfortunate. Like Lady Fortuna hadn't blessed them. And I'm pretty sure Lady Fortuna as a god holds this like set of scales on either side. And the point of that is that she gives and she takes away.

• 1:02:05Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  And there was a famous story of a philosopher that was thrown into jail. He had his legs broken and a bunch of others, so all of his possessions were taken away from him. And somebody came up to him and sort of asked, are you not miserable? And he said, well, look at how much I was blessed for the first 50 years of my life by Lady Fortuna. I was kind of owed this on the other side. And you roll the clock forward, the equivalent of an unfortunate in 2026 is a loser. Like if the winners are worthy of their successes, then what does that mean? The people that didn't win, like they're worthy of their losses.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  It's the issue with meritocracy in America is that because you're told if you work hard, you can become anything. If you aren't something of status, then it's because you didn't work hard. And so then as a result, it's like, well, okay, how do I, who do I put this on? Because this is unfair. And it seems like victimhood as sort of like a, an idea exists much more here in meritocratic societies than in places that don't really even profess the idea.

• 1:02:56Speaker 00

  Elaborate on that.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Well, like if you're in like a, you know, semi caste based society, like something that's more akin to like the UK.

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Where it's like, okay, you're sort of born into a, a threshold in society based off of what your parents did. Then you're kind of given a spot. And so your success and your failure is just kind of ascribed to you by, you know, God in a way.

• 1:03:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  And so you're not really going to take on the victimhood in the same way as you would here. Because it's like, if I don't succeed, it's, I'm being told socially it's because I'm, I didn't work hard.

• 1:03:27Speaker 00

  So I need another reason for why I am where I am. I E billionaires or tech or AI getting rid of my job. I need some excuse so it doesn't look like I'm someone who doesn't work as hard as the other people. Which is fair because so much of this shit is fucking luck, dude. I mean.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  You have to work. Don't get me wrong, but you need, you need a little luck.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Try and, try and like thread this needle between, we understand that people can be born into situations that are more and less advantageous. And that should be recognized and compensated for so that people feel like they've got a fighting chance and that they haven't been left behind. Like holy fuck, if we've got someone that's worth a trillion dollars, should everybody not at least be able to have like a fighting chance of it? And at the same time, say, some people realize that victimhood is a shortcut to be able to get themselves status by not doing anything or by over egging how much challenge they've had in their life. And those people need David Goggins screaming in their face, telling them to go hard. Like, how do we balance these two things? And basically both sides are true.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Both sides are right, that for one group of people, you need to be told, put your fucking shoes on and go and do some work. And for another group of people, you need to be said, this has been really hard and we need to give you a helping hand and recognize that. And like, because both of those things are true, each one uses the other side's argument as a justification to get more of what they already have.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird sort of like American issue, I think. I don't know. You just don't hear about it as much in other places where people are kind of like, uh, I think it was Emile Darkon. I don't know if you've ever heard of him. He's like a, like a philosopher, like a German philosopher. But he wrote this book called, which I think we might have to bleep, which is ironic. It's the name of the book. But basically he's like, he sort of argues for, it's in a very like a small stroke, like societies where you're given jobs as being more harmonious because you're kind of just like told what to do. And it's like your dad was a cobbler and now you're a cobbler. And, you know, there's a comfort in that. And when you sort of give people all the options of the world, saying you can become anything that you want to be, it actually creates a bit more of a personal frustration.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  You're back to the jean store.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  What should I do with my life? Oh, you can do anything you want. Well, that means that like I have to choose. And then if I don't choose right, then I've got regrets and I don't know how to pick myself up by my bootstraps and so, yeah.

• 1:05:42Speaker 00

  And what are we maximizing for? Are we maximizing for happiness or are we maximizing for success?

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  Well, Arthur Brooks has this great line where he says, evolution doesn't want you to be happy. It wants you to be special. And specialness is actually like maybe even more enticing than status. Cause money can get you specialness. Status can get you specialness. Talent can get you specialness, renown, admiration, respect from other people. And it's all just, I want to stand out. But by standing out, that's great because it means that you don't have to go to the average, the guy that's overweight with less than 1K in the bank. And at the same time, you're like, if you overclock that, you just chase this dragon for the rest of your life, trying to get to some point that never ends up finishing.

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  But I don't know if like the, the, the human existence, obviously standing out is advantageous. But like, I think there is something in us inherently to cut the tallest poppy. Right? And I don't think that that's a specifically British thing. I think it exists less in America, but you still see it permeate, you know? And I think it's.

• 1:06:41Speaker 02

  What would be the sort of areas where that would be the most prevalent in America, do you think?

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  I think every, I think every, like, I think there's a certain amount of success that, that you reach where there's a almost primal instinct. Like I was, I was looking at this video, this guy did about, um, certain chimpanzees and like, that we derive from. And one of the interesting things about it is like this whole myth of the alpha male and running. It's, that's actually not what made us special. It was what makes the chimpanzees stop in their evolution, not stop, but like exist in more or less the same place, is the fact that there's this one alpha and everybody's kind of terrified of the alpha. And they're all, and they can't sit down and think of like cool things to make and different ways to eat shit. They're all just going, is he going to fuck my girl and beat me up? Like, did you ever watch that like chimpanzee show on Netflix?

• 1:07:31Speaker 00

  Where like there's just one alpha and every once in a while he just got to rile shit up. Like he's just got, everybody's calm and he's like, I need to fight. And everybody's like, okay, fuck, all right. And like, you can't develop a car that way, you know? And like, what made it different was actually like cutting the alpha's head off. And kind of, that's almost like democracy is downstream from that. This idea that like every four years, you gotta prove it to us again and we'll fucking knock you out if we don't like you.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Teamwork and tools, dude, those were the two things. If you can do collective action, the guy that's bigger than everybody else. And if you've got some weapons that can take him down. It's like, it doesn't matter how big and scary or whatever you are, which is why despots and authoritarians and dictators always have sycophants around them.

• 1:08:10Speaker 00

  It's the only way they'll succeed.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  Bingo, bingo, bingo, bingo.

• 1:08:12Speaker 00

  And those segments have to be completely dependent on them. Right? Like their success, their livelihood has to be ten minutes. So it's not even just like a sycophant. It's like their sycophantic literally because their life is dependent on it.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  Correct. Cause without this, there would be nothing.

• 1:08:26Speaker 00

  And, and it's against the natural instinct.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  There's some cool insights around ancestrally, what types of leaders different tribes would have wanted. So there's two ways to achieve status. One is through dominance and the other is through prestige. Prestige being, look at how good I am, look at how pro-social. If you elect me or support me to become the person that's in charge, you will benefit from this. And I'm so good that you trust me to be the person that benefits everybody above all of these other people that could maybe benefit you more or less. The dominance thing is just, you better vote for me or support me. Or yeah, or something bad's going to happen. So it's carrot stick largely. And what's interesting is you would think, well, why would anyone ever vote for the second guy? It's because in times of war, humans prefer security.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  Dominance.

• 1:09:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  They want dominance even internally because it typically tends to be more decisive and aggressive and good at protecting you from the tribes that cross the valley. The problem being if you elect somebody that is a dominant leader in a time of war, if you survive, you transition into a time of peace, but you still have an asshole for a leader.

• 1:09:30Speaker 00

  This is, I'm sure I saw this on a TikTok or something, but weren't there like some Native American tribes that basically had like a leader just for war?

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  Don't we just recruit this guy, keeps in a cave?

• 1:09:42Speaker 00

  He's in charge, you let him do everything for that.

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  Step aside for a while.

• 1:09:46Speaker 00

  And then once things are peaceful again, you put him somewhere else.

• 1:09:50Speaker 02

  Putting him somewhere else, that's the challenge.

• 1:09:53Speaker 00

  He has to be willing and the society has to be structured in a way that he knows his role and he's willing to step aside. This is why George Washington's a goat, man.

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  Tell me about George Washington.

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  He fucking changed the history of humanity, stepped down. He had all the power. He won the unwinnable war and he said, I think you guys gotta do this. Now, did he own a bunch of slaves? Yes, bad. But he was the maybe first person in history that had complete and total power and the support of an entire new nation and was like, I think we gotta try this thing where like you, you vote in somebody.

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  Diplomatically.

• 1:10:27Speaker 00

  Fucking insane.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Like benevolent.

• 1:10:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  We'd term maybe not personally, but like diplomatically benevolent.

• 1:10:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. Crazy idea, right?

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, it's wild. It is. I think strange to strange to consider what sort of different leader we need in different times, what is more useful. And I think about now, like maybe artificially creating this sense of war and conflict and impending external threat is exactly the engineering that causes someone to maybe vote for a particular type of candidate a little bit more than another.

• 1:10:58Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  No, absolutely.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  This has been used for centuries. This has been used for millennia.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  He is an enemy.

• 1:11:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. Hey, they're coming.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:07Speaker 00

  They're coming.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  They're gonna turn your kids trans.

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  Vote for me.

• 1:11:10Speaker 00

  I don't want my kid, you know what I mean? Like you start thinking like that and then all of a sudden you become a one-issue voter. Are we gonna exist?

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Well, don't forget, it's not even a one-issue voter, it's a one-hatred voter. Most people's votes are not for the person they're voting for, they're against the other guy.

• 1:11:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  That's it. I think it's 2012 that this actually inverted. If you ask how ardently do you support your own side versus how ardently do you dislike the other side?

• 1:11:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  People were skewed more in opposition than they were in support.

• 1:11:37Speaker 00

  Did you watch the World Cup when they were interviewing all the Scottish fans? Shout out to Tartan Army. But they were like, would you rather, I think it says like, would you rather Scotland win the World Cup and then England wins the next three? Or Scotland doesn't win the World Cup? And the fans were like, let's not win it, bro. I'm like, I'm used to not winning it. I can't, I am used to, I can't have England win the next three World Cups.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Next door neighbor getting a nice loud car. Like he's not gonna shut up about it for ages. You're gonna hear it every single morning when you wake up.

• 1:12:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. I hate them more than I love us.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Bingo.

• 1:12:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, scary.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  Can we present you some relationship problems?

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I don't know whether I can help, but yeah, let's see.

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  I think you can help.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:12:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  I mean, I have one. This isn't really a problem, but it's more.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you would. Is this you?

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  This is interpersonal.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  Let's see.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  We're like, I mean, you talked to a lot of people about relationships, you know?

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  I feel like this would be a good time that we could potentially work out some things.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Okay, let's see.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Should you get credit for what I did recently? Not me, someone else actually hypothetically.

• 1:12:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. Complete hypothetical.

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  If you have a dream where a woman in the dream tries to make love to you and then you turn her down and then you wake up, should you get credit from your wife for not doing it?

• 1:12:58Speaker 00

  Is the woman in the dream a friend of the show?

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Is she on the screen?

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Infamously a friend of the show, hypothetically.

• 1:13:05Speaker 00

  Yon me park with.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:08Speaker 00

  He was hungry, dude. He was so hungry.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. I know.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  She's an 01V2 immediately, dude, extraordinary.

• 1:13:17Speaker 00

  Do you have a rack?

• 1:13:18Speaker 02

  Extraordinary abilities.

• 1:13:21Speaker 00

  Hold on. So who was the girl? Can we find out who the girl in the dream was?

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you could just picture any beautiful woman in your mind.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Whoever you want that to be.

• 1:13:29Speaker 00

  So in the dream, you turned her down?

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I say, I have a wife, you crazy? And so you just go the rest of the private jet ride, just sitting side by side.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Roll the clock forward, you wake up.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Wake up.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  Then?

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  My wife wakes up and she goes, how did you sleep? And he goes, you're not gonna believe it, but I'm a great guy. And then she goes, why are you telling me about this dream? Like, because it's pretty cool that I did the right thing, right? And it plays for you didn't have to do the right thing at all. You could have just given it into your carnal pleasure.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  Well, did you ask her about her dream with Brickzilla?

• 1:14:08Speaker 00

  Maybe her dream was differently and maybe you made her feel guilty that you had. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Damn, that's a good point.

• 1:14:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  I didn't even ask. You should have asked.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  That's crazy. Your subconscious is an incel.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  I'm a good guy, dude. I did the right thing in the dream.

• 1:14:27Speaker 00

  But isn't the right thing in the dream, it's not a dream then? Like, is that?

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  It's a nightmare.

• 1:14:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's more of a nightmare. I would describe it in that way.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  But also doing the noble thing is kind of, is kind of what we all aspired to, was men. So in a way.

• 1:14:39Speaker 00

  Have you ever knew it was a dream and then you were like, let me just?

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Let me lean into this.

• 1:14:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Get out a jail free card.

• 1:14:45Speaker 00

  That's a completely, right?

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  Maybe it was a nightmare. I was forced. There were these three women on a jet.

• 1:14:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  It was a nightmare. They weren't friends of the show. Yon me park's never coming back on, I promise.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  And those girls are like, do you wanna pinch yourself to like know it's a dream? And you're like, no.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  Don't pinch me at all.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Don't pinch me at all. Should you get credit relationally for doing the right thing in a dream?

• 1:15:05Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  I'm gonna say yes. I think yes. Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate, right? That's young.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  Carl Jung said that.

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:15:15Speaker 00

  The fuck does he know?

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  That's a great question. He did go insane for a while.

• 1:15:19Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Speaker 00

  Should have just fucked the girl in the dream.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  That's true. I'm yes. I'm team yes. I think that you should. How did that go on? How did I get on with you of Mrs.? What did she say? What was the response?

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  She just sent me a thumbs up emoji. I texted her, really.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  That's bad. That's difficult to deliver over text.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wasn't ideal.

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  Because the more graphic that you make the text, the more it feels like you're being egregious.

• 1:15:39Speaker 00

  We need to know how hot the girl was, Mark, because like it's easy to say no to a girl.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  Can we use AI? Can we chat GPT?

• 1:15:45Speaker 00

  Is that a girl you knew?

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  It's a girl that we all know.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  Oh, was that the girl?

• 1:15:51Speaker 00

  No way.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  Famous celebrity.

• 1:15:53Speaker 00

  No way.

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  It's pretty sick.

• 1:15:55Speaker 00

  But if he gets credit for not, then that means if you do in the dream, then you should be penalized then.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  Well, you should just shouldn't share it.

• 1:16:05Speaker 00

  Oh, so you should just lie?

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  But what do you do? Win-win scenario.

• 1:16:08Speaker 00

  But how do you not like, doesn't she see you like getting out of bed and change your underwear in the night?

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  You sleep with underwear?

• 1:16:14Speaker 00

  So you're just busting on sheets? Well, who's gonna find the sheets like that?

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. I go, I go shorts, of course. I'm not an animal. But I feel like if you have one of these dreams and you do go through with it and you decide to be a scumbag and make love to a beautiful woman that's not your wife, I just think you keep that.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  Completely blamelessly, by the way.

• 1:16:31Mark Gagnon?

  It's so, so you're cheating and withholding it from your wife.

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  Alex, what do you think? I feel like I know your position here, but.

• 1:16:37Mark Gagnon?

  No, I'm just saying, if you're gonna give him credit for turning it down in the dream, then you also.

• 1:16:42Speaker 02

  You need some skin in the game.

• 1:16:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. You also get some blame if you go through with it. So that means you have to talk to, you have to tell your wife.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  I don't need to bring it up.

• 1:16:49Speaker 00

  The dream is the dream.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  The dream's a dream.

• 1:16:51Speaker 00

  The dream is, you shouldn't have told her.

• 1:16:53Mark Gagnon?

  You shouldn't have told her.

• 1:16:54Speaker 00

  I would have told her I didn't do it though.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. To get some credit.

• 1:16:58Speaker 00

  Absolutely. But I don't know if I'm getting credit from it.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Let me give you this. So McCusky, straight after telling me about his fucking inflatable alien, told me that he'd woken his wife up by farting. And I was like, oh, that must have been a loud one. And he was like, no, no, no, it's wake by smell.

• 1:17:11Speaker 00

  Oh, that's crazy.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  Wake by smell.

• 1:17:13Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  So she like woke up, was like, oh, oh. And then went straight back under. Four days, she didn't bring it up. And he was like, he was waiting for it to happen and he felt like he had to pay his penance. And he said, hey, you remember the other night, right? He's telling all his friends. He's like, I can't believe I did that. That was crazy. Telling all of his friends. And then she was like, oh, actually you did that. That was gross. And he was like, okay, now he had to pay his penance. So that's the same as you bringing up your dream. But it's only the same as you bringing up your dream if you do it on the other side as well.

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  See?

• 1:17:44Speaker 00

  What did you think she was gonna do?

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  I don't know. Just give me a high five.

• 1:17:48Speaker 00

  You're awesome. I love you.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  She gave you a thumbs up.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Maybe a reward.

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  It is passive aggressive.

• 1:17:52Speaker 00

  What type of reward? I know what you, oh, I know what he was doing. I know.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  What was I doing? What was I doing?

• 1:17:59Speaker 00

  No, you were trying to tell your wife like, yo, it's time. Like, I need to get laid.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  This is some threesome 5D chess thing?

• 1:18:06Speaker 00

  Not even, oh, I didn't even think threesome. I thought just regular twosome. Like you're like, I need to get laid. Like entering my dreams. Yeah.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  Maybe my shadow self was like, hey, it's time for.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  Carl Jung told me. Let me ask you guys.

• 1:18:17Speaker 00

  What is Jung known for?

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  I literally just know that quote from him. That's literally my entire bit, my whole bit. My entire bit is just having tiny idea handles to be able to throw at people on podcasts.

• 1:18:29Speaker 00

  Bro, it works so well. There was like a quote a day thing that like, you know, it's like some app will just give you like a quote a day. And it's just like, if you have a like 300. Sixty five quotes from smart people. You can seem fucking smart.

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  You can be the eight biggest podcast in the world.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  Let me give you this. I have this, I have this theory that guys go a little bit insane after seven P M. In the house if they're not in a relationship.

• 1:18:51Speaker 00

  If they're not in the relationship.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  Not in a relationship, they start doing weird stuff like headstands and like getting into bizarre hobbies and like I. We talk about women domesticating men, like civilizing them somewhat, but it's like, I mean, think about you guys.

• 1:19:05Speaker 00

  Why are you in the house after eight if you're single?

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  Why? Like you're getting ready for the next day.

• 1:19:10Speaker 00

  It's Tuesday night.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Or something.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  You just finished kickball league and you gotta do something. You're hanging out.

• 1:19:16Speaker 02

  It's a, it's a weird time of night. It's kind of a twilight, especially if you're like a self powered, cause you're like, fuck, am I gonna stop? I'm not gonna open Slack or do more emails at eight P M. At night or whatever. So, but I can't fully chill out and just this weird fugue state, this middle zone. Right? The no man's land.

• 1:19:31Speaker 00

  Fugue state.

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I just, I, a lot of my friends that are single have this thing where they go kind of a bit insane between the hours of eight P M. And eleven P M. At night. I think that that's kind of true. Like a lot of, I mean, think about you guys when your missus leaves. If you're spending a lot of time in the house and you've not been on the road for a while, then they leave. You're like.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  What do it, what do I, what do I do?

• 1:19:54Speaker 00

  There's some truth to that. Like you text to your boys, they're not available. And you're like, do I even have friends?

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  Who am I?

• 1:20:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, who am I?

• 1:20:03Speaker 02

  Without my wife.

• 1:20:04Speaker 00

  It is crazy when you remove like, the thing about a family is that there's no real free time.

• 1:20:12Speaker 00

  Because. Any time that you are free, you have to spend with the people that you haven't given enough time to.

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  The demand is always greater than the supply.

• 1:20:23Speaker 00

  Always.

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  Permanently.

• 1:20:24Speaker 00

  Always. So if they are away and you are randomly by yourself and you don't have anything to do that night and nothing to wake up to in the morning. Yeah, it is, it is unbelievably lonely. It's like what? Yeah, that is interesting.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's where the sugar comes in, dude. My wife was gone for like three weeks. Eight thirty rolls around and you're like, yeah, I'm just gonna order ten donuts and see what happens.

• 1:20:47Speaker 02

  Dude, that was exactly what I was gonna say. Uber eating Krispy Kreme.

• 1:20:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  And you're like, I'll stack something from Target on top of that. Like, why not?

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, you double dash it. You know, that way you're not an animal.

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's, that's where it creeps in.

• 1:20:59Speaker 00

  Why are you feeling that?

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  No, not for me. I mean, I've been civilized massively by my girlfriend, but for me, when I see my friends that go into and out of relationship or when they're not there. You, everything becomes insane. Everyone, everyone, like a lot of guys go way more insane by, by women. Like, yeah, maybe they've stopped you from gambling so much or your porn habits chilled out. You're not going out and partying. It's like, yeah, but when she's not there, you've now got a Warhammer forty K dependency.

• 1:21:25Speaker 00

  You've become so much more productive when you have a partner. It's unbelievable. Yeah, because. Yeah, exactly. It's like that, that time, you have to utilize your time. You have to utilize your time.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  What's that look like?

• 1:21:38Speaker 00

  Productive when? When you have a girl.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Okay, I agree.

• 1:21:41Speaker 00

  Because one, you're not spending forty hours a week chasing pussy.

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  The sheer admin of being single, this is something we haven't talked about, the admin burden of single life.

• 1:21:52Speaker 00

  It's like having a podcast.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  I'm gonna book these people in the scheduling.

• 1:21:57Speaker 00

  And all this stuff. It's unbelievable. I can't imagine. And then also it's like waiting for a response for a text, thinking of the text back. And I mean, you're probably doing forty hours a week. So now when you don't have to focus on that.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  Jobs.

• 1:22:09Speaker 00

  Two, yeah, in, in Switzerland or wherever, wherever forty hours a week is two full time jobs. But it's like, you're, yeah, that, that insane focus. Yeah, you have a girl and then like you go out twice a week. That's a lot. You go two date nights a week? That's like a luxury.

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  Peak.

• 1:22:28Speaker 00

  Peak.

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:29Speaker 00

  You're spending what? Eight hour? Like I think when my wife and I first started dating, we would maybe go out once a week. I was on the road every single weekend. It was, we go out once a week. I got my whole life back.

• 1:22:38Speaker 02

  So talking to me now, you've got, how old are the two kids now?

• 1:22:41Speaker 00

  Two and then a half. I got a two and a half year old and then like an eight month old.

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  Right, okay. So you've done two under two ish and that's now phasing up. Plus you've got the misses. And then that just, that entire world, that whole like chaos just gets lifted off you and you're now in the house. Like what change? What's the inner texture of your mind like? Are you looking around for shit to do? Or you're like, oh, I, all this creativity just starts pouring out.

• 1:23:06Speaker 00

  Special K red berries, whole milk. Oh, that's fine.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  Say more, keep going, keep going.

• 1:23:11Speaker 00

  Immediately.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  Keep going.

• 1:23:12Speaker 00

  And I'm eating it loud.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  Big bowl.

• 1:23:15Speaker 00

  Big bowl.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  Like a bowl that you're not supposed to put cereal in, salad bowl.

• 1:23:18Speaker 00

  It's scraping, it's scraping it. So immediately there.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  Why does old people's cereal come in though? Cause I feel the same way. Like, I like, I like old people's cereal now.

• 1:23:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, the, the young stuff is too sweet.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Is that what it is?

• 1:23:30Speaker 00

  Too sweet, too sweet.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  Is it because you feel like it's indulgence?

• 1:23:33Speaker 00

  No, it's more just like it's sweet and it's not that good. Like if I'm gonna have, I don't need cookie crisp. I'll eat a cookie.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  That's a good point.

• 1:23:41Speaker 00

  When you're a kid, you can't have a cookie for breakfast. So you wanna get the closest thing to a cookie and then it's the cereal shaped like.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  Starbucks managed to do that basically by convincing everybody that you need a four hundred calorie frappuccino first thing in the morning. Dude, you had dessert for breakfast and it was liquid. The greatest, one of the greatest psyops in history.

• 1:23:57Speaker 00

  There was no coffee.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  GLPs have fucked it all.

• 1:24:00Speaker 00

  But did you know there was no coffee in a frappuccino?

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Wait, what?

• 1:24:04Speaker 00

  There was no coffee in it.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  Pull it up.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  Latte.

• 1:24:07Speaker 00

  Look it up.

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  Starbucks frappuccino?

• 1:24:09Speaker 00

  There was no coffee in it.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  So no caffeine or no coffee?

• 1:24:14Speaker 00

  No coffee, I think. No.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  This is espresso shots.

• 1:24:18Speaker 00

  Look it up. Look it up.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Okay, this is what, this is what the internet says. Let's see. It says Starbucks non coffee. Okay, they have a non coffee one.

• 1:24:25Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no. This is the original like frappuccino.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  Blended vanilla bean powder milk. Oh, you might be right with the vanilla bean, breen.

• 1:24:35Speaker 00

  It was this powder that they would put in it and then they would mix up and all that stuff.

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  Coffee taste, but not coffee.

• 1:24:39Speaker 00

  I think that was what it was. Now it might've had caffeine in it, but like the actual thing itself was the, what does it say?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  A standard, the handcrafted Starbucks vanilla bean cream frappuccino contains zero milligrams caffeine.

• 1:24:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Holy.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  What a fucking psyop. It's just a massive milkshake.

• 1:24:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a fucking milkshake, but you would feel guilty having a milkshake every day, but a coffee every morning, guilt free. All right, guys, take a break for a second. The holidays are here and businesses are hiring for some wild seasonal jobs right now. Ham glazer, lead elf, real bearded Santa, and they check, by the way. You can't show up with a party city beard, snowplow driver. These are real jobs and somebody has to fill them. These roles need specific skills, experience, or even a special license, and those people aren't easy to find. Whether you're hiring for one of those or any other role, the best way to find qualified people who are actually excited about your role is ZipRecruiter.

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  Right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash flagrant. ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first. So you meet the right people faster. Candidates can even tell you in their own words why they're excited about your job. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G two. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your role, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com slash flagrant. That's ziprecruiter.com slash flagrant. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Also, you know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, or the tee you somehow always teach for first, reach for first.

• 1:26:18Speaker 00

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy and that's what Quince does best. See, Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like a hundred percent Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, merino wool. Their styles are timeless, versatile and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day. Their a hundred percent Mongolian cashmere sweaters start at sixty dollars. You're not gonna find that anywhere else. Giving you the softness and quality you expect from a luxury brand. And when the temperatures start to drop, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with premium down jackets. Classic wool outerwear. Everything at Quince is priced fifty to eighty percent less than similar brands.

• 1:26:59Speaker 00

  They work directly with ethical factories, so you're paying for high quality, not brand markup. The merino crew neck and linen pants from Quince are the real deal. Absolutely amazing. You should check them out and impress your girl on an upcoming date. And it's not just clothing. Quince brings the same approach to everything they make from hotel quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials and thoughtfully designed furniture. They make well designed pieces for everyday living. So find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com, get free shipping on your order and three hundred sixty five day returns.

• 1:27:38Speaker 00

  Now available in Canada and the U K. Too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it's flagrant. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just fifteen dollars a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can't afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're gonna stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of forty five dollars for three months, ninety dollars for six months or one hundred and eighty dollars for twelve months.

• 1:28:08Speaker 02

  This is good to pull up. Have a look at Victoria's Secret's share price.

• 1:28:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  What do we think's happened to Victoria's Secret's share price?

• 1:28:23Speaker 00

  I think it went down because of West West.

• 1:28:24Mark Gagnon?

  I think it went, skyrocketed.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  300% up.

• 1:28:28Mark Gagnon?

  Why? GLPs. Everybody's skinny.

• 1:28:30Speaker 02

  Bingo. Go to five years or one year?

• 1:28:33Speaker 00

  Holy shit.

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  Dude, look at that. We're back. We are so fucking back.

• 1:28:37Speaker 00

  Holy shit.

• 1:28:38Mark Gagnon?

  I look good now.

• 1:28:39Speaker 02

  Go one year.

• 1:28:41Speaker 00

  All right, here's one.

• 1:28:42Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, here we go.

• 1:28:43Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:28:44Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:44Speaker 00

  Okay, here's one.

• 1:28:45Speaker 02

  162%.

• 1:28:45Speaker 00

  And Gia, go, go, go.

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  Because people are getting skinny and wanting to buy lingerie.

• 1:28:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Yep, for themselves, for each other.

• 1:28:50Speaker 02

  They're now more confident in their bodies. Sex drive should be up a little bit if you're not so overweight.

• 1:28:55Speaker 00

  I got a friend who has a lingerie company and they stopped using fat models.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  That's brave.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  More sales, less sales.

• 1:29:03Speaker 00

  Unnecessary. So like at a time where people were fat, you had to get the models that reflected the people that were buying the clothing.

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  They're just blowing with the wind. They're blowing with the GLPs.

• 1:29:13Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:29:14Speaker 02

  Blowing with the BMIs.

• 1:29:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:15Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  So other industries, pretty interesting.

• 1:29:19Speaker 00

  Oh, real quick on GLP.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:21Speaker 00

  I was blown away by how many women in my neighborhood had like abs. I'm not talking about like when we were growing up, girls obviously were skinny, but not like a core, like a Pilates or yoga core. Yes.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  Christina Aguilera build.

• 1:29:39Speaker 00

  Perfect. This is a athletic build for girls that I'm sure, you know, work in finance or consulting or something.

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  But train five days a week.

• 1:29:48Speaker 00

  Exactly. And a buddy of mine was like, I think this is the GLP effect. And I'm like, oh, you think they're on GLPs? He goes, no, it's pushing the baseline of being in shape down. So now that the girls were a little fat are now skinny, the skinny girls gotta be even thinner to compete.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  Because fatness is relative.

• 1:30:10Speaker 00

  Fatness is relative.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  But here's the other element of it.

• 1:30:13Speaker 00

  They're not going to be outcompeted, right? Like.

• 1:30:15Mark Gagnon?

  But there's a lot of people that are fitness people on the GLPs.

• 1:30:18Speaker 00

  Oh, so now you're double dipping. That's crazy.

• 1:30:19Mark Gagnon?

  To get the extra little baby fat off.

• 1:30:21Speaker 02

  So there's a, an idea from evolutionary psychology called honest signals or costly signaling. And costly signal is something that's very difficult to fake. Like for instance, if you have a watch, you're like, well, that could be real or it could be fake. It's very difficult to fake being in shape, or at least it was until we had GLPs. Then GLPs artificially suppressed what previously would have had to have used maybe hard work and willpower and a calorie deficit and all of these things to get people's body weight down to like.

• 1:30:47Speaker 00

  Plastic surgery.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, bariatric surgery, whatever it is that you need in order to get your body weight down. Like even bariatric surgery is quite costly, right? And as you make the cost lower, it means that the signal becomes less reliable. Like what does this body shape infer about you and your lifestyle as a person? Is it that you have this particular type of fitness lifestyle or is it that you're using the GLPs? So now in order to select yourself out, because as of yet, although there are some drugs that are supposedly coming at some point soon that can make people jacked super easy. Right now you can't get jacked without a shit ton of hard work. Whereas the GLP, so this is another selection criteria to have another costly signal. Not only is it now enough, or not only is it enough that you need to be skinny, but you also now need to be muscular as well.

• 1:31:31Speaker 00

  That's.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  For another like three years.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  Until they come up with whatever the next compound is that fucking.

• 1:31:36Speaker 00

  Because as humans, we appreciate the effort that goes into it. Is that the idea?

• 1:31:40Speaker 02

  That's what people propose. That there's this, this argument that a costly signal shows you are the kind of person that does this. And I can infer from you, like if you're well read or something, it's all, I can infer that something about, or if you're fat, or if you're like good at fucking speed wrapping or whatever it is. Like I can tell, are you good at Padel? Like you have a lot of spare time. Women have got long nails. Like why is it that women have long nails and long hair? Part of the justification for this or one of the reasons.

• 1:32:04Speaker 00

  You're not working. Yeah.

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  Very difficult.

• 1:32:07Speaker 00

  Can't work with those long nails.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  To maintain that.

• 1:32:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  Why is it that expensive rings and heels and handbags, given that most men, so intersexual signaling, which is to the other side.

• 1:32:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  Doesn't really make sense because none of us know the difference between a hundred pair of heels and like a $5,000 pair of heels. Same thing goes for most handbags. Same thing goes for nails and rings and stuff like that. It's all intrasexual competition. And one of the arguments that's put forward for this is if you as a woman have all of these accoutrements and you're adorned with like this thing that takes a lot of time, you have lots of spare time, which suggests that you live in some degree of luxury. And if it's not you that's maybe paid for all of this stuff, it's look at how invested my partner is in me. So invested that he's prepared to adorn me with all of this bullshit that he doesn't even understand. There is no chance that you're going to be able to take him off me.

• 1:33:03Speaker 00

  Ooh, so it's a signal from the partner.

• 1:33:06Speaker 02

  About what the level of investment of the other half.

• 1:33:09Speaker 00

  This is what's going to cost for you to take me from my partner.

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  This is how invested this, this partner is.

• 1:33:14Speaker 00

  Can you invest more?

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think, you know what I think?

• 1:33:17Speaker 00

  That's a justification for the diamond ring. If there's a primal reaction from male suitors when they see a big engagement ring. Like it's a protective, it's like having a bodyguard with your wife for guys trying to fuck her.

• 1:33:28Speaker 02

  I'm not going to compete with that guy. There's no way I'm going to compete with that guy.

• 1:33:31Speaker 00

  Well, then you could make an argument, that's a fantastic investment.

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  But he's saying it's intersex. He's saying.

• 1:33:37Speaker 02

  Women to women. I think that the ring is actually maybe slightly different because like even a guy is like, holy fuck, like that's a big rock.

• 1:33:43Speaker 00

  She's rich. She's with a guy.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

  The husband, because this is serious feminism. I know that women have started proposing to guys now. That's something that's happened. But if women started buying their own engagement rings, that would be some huge upturn of the like, this is what I need to get for myself. But yeah, I think.

• 1:34:01Speaker 00

  The women to women shit is like, like wearing heels for other, other women is retarded, man. Like, that's so stupid. Have you ever seen a woman walking alone in the day with high heels?

• 1:34:14Speaker 00

  Isn't that the stupidest fucking thing you know? Like it really puts in perspective.

• 1:34:18Speaker 02

  That's all of Miami.

• 1:34:18Speaker 00

  How stupid. No, no, Miami, it's groups. When you see a girl that like a group of four girls walking, it's normalized, right? It's like they're going to something. There's a date, there's a dinner, there's a whatever, especially at night, it feels different. But when a single girl is walking down the street with like a high stiletto and she's just walking around on her tippy toes, purposely uncomfortable for no one to look at or no group to blend in with. It exposes how fucking absurd the idea of heels really is.

• 1:34:47Speaker 02

  Female intrasexual competition is so complex, dude. I'm so grateful that I don't need to navigate. I would be horrible as a woman.

• 1:34:54Speaker 00

  If you saw your boy walking down the street on his tippy toes and you knew that he wasn't autistic, wouldn't you have made, wouldn't you be like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? Like, isn't it crazy? Within a group, it seems normalized for whatever reason. It's like, it's like seeing a guy who has like a letter painted on his chest. Like if all of the guys.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  Uniform.

• 1:35:14Speaker 00

  Yes, it's like giants or whatever and you all, but by yourself.

• 1:35:18Speaker 02

  Face bangs.

• 1:35:18Speaker 00

  You look crazy. But the heel thing is something that's so normalized. You see these girls do it all the time. It is to me. I'll tell you what, what triggered it to me. I was on, I was on like a Delta flight and they make the stewardesses, the flight attendants, whatever they're called. They have to wear heels until the flight takes off. Once it takes off, they could change into their flats. And there was a justification for it. I forgot the fuck of what it was. I don't know, but like, I thought it was so ridiculous. It was like, why do you, what does it matter if they're wearing fucking heels? It's like, it's all gay guys anyway. Like why, why, like why the flights is wearing the fucking heels? But like, it was this, it's this like lasting thing that I don't think guys care that much about. Like if a girl's wearing heels or not, I don't think it really changes.

• 1:36:02Speaker 00

  Like, okay, maybe it's nice. The foot looks good in heels, whatever, but it's not like a deal breaker in any way, shape or form. And it's not a selector. Like if there's one girl in heels and one not, I'm not like, oh, I need the fucking heels one. Why does this still exist?

• 1:36:15Speaker 02

  There's a couple of research areas in evolutionary psychology that are exclusively looking at lordotic posture. So like what heels?

• 1:36:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, it makes it look like you get it from the back or whatever. Yeah.

• 1:36:27Speaker 00

  You ever seen that? Because it makes, accentuates the leg muscles and it lifts the ass into a position.

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  Anterior pelvic tilt. A little bit of that, a little bit of the old.

• 1:36:37Mark Gagnon?

  That's enough of an answer for me.

• 1:36:38Speaker 00

  But if you're a girl, just tilt your ass up and walk in.

• 1:36:41Speaker 02

  Make heels great again.

• 1:36:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, right? To me, it's like.

• 1:36:45Speaker 02

  So here's something that I've noticed.

• 1:36:46Speaker 00

  It's seeing somebody with a unicycle. That's how dumb it looks. When you see them by themselves. If you saw like seven people with unicycles, you'd be like, oh, there's like for cancer.

• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  Sick.

• 1:36:56Speaker 00

  You know what I mean? Like, yeah, but one.

• 1:36:58Speaker 02

  Mob. It's like a really ineffective crime gang and they're all going around with unicycles.

• 1:37:05Speaker 02

  One of the most crazy things I learned about intrasexual competition for women is venting. So there's an idea called the bless her heart effect. Bless her heart effect is why women vent typically.

• 1:37:15Speaker 00

  I love this, but we're going. Go on, this is making my day. Go on, go on.

• 1:37:18Speaker 02

  Okay, so venting is a particular type of like social gossip.

• 1:37:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  And it's social gossip that is wrapped in the container of pro-social care. So for instance, Mark, we might say, uh, I'm, Mark, I'm really worried about Andrea. Like she's sleeping with all of these guys and like, I'm just really worried that she's gonna get hurt.

• 1:37:39Speaker 00

  Talking that shit.

• 1:37:40Speaker 02

  I care about this so much and I'm just really, I'm really concerned about that. And this is like, on average, happens more among women than it does among men. Because if Andrea ever pulls me up and you say, Christine, what the fuck are you doing? Talking to Mark about this thing. You told him this thing was going on. And I'm like, Andrea, like, I'm just so worried about you. Like, I mean, you know, I really care about you.

• 1:37:59Speaker 00

  This is the realest shit. Oh, no, keep going, keep going.

• 1:38:02Speaker 02

  They, it says a bunch of things about the communicator as well. It says, me? Oh, no, I am not. I would never be the sort of person that would do that. So it like implicitly broadcasts my purity whilst identifying someone else's flaws, shortcomings.

• 1:38:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  Under the guise of me being charitable and caring about them. It's kind of, this is why being a woman, like navigating social relationships and social networks for women is like a 400 IQ challenge for a guy to do. There is no way that we can do it.

• 1:38:32Speaker 00

  This is why they love gay guys. Cause they don't gotta deal with all this, right? They don't gotta deal with all this.

• 1:38:40Speaker 02

  Oh, they have none of the concern about being hit on, but with all of the benefits of none of the intersexual competition.

• 1:38:45Speaker 00

  Yes, it's perfect. And it's like, and I, one, I do really feel like straight guys and lesbians should have much better relationship. I hate the fact that we don't have a better relationship. Like, we should be kindred spirits.

• 1:38:56Speaker 02

  That's interesting. Why do you think that's not the case?

• 1:38:58Speaker 00

  Well, because what you just described probably, the venting shit. Maybe the way that women just socialize is a little different.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  I think it's almost exclusively that every lesbian knows that the straight guy is gonna try and turn her.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's what it is. I think most straight guys don't believe in lesbians.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:16Speaker 00

  At a certain level of attractiveness.

• 1:39:20Speaker 02

  Sure. Oh, so you're saying like Subaru, plaid shirt, granola?

• 1:39:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, like I believe you a wholeheartedly.

• 1:39:27Speaker 02

  Your undercut tells me everything I need to know.

• 1:39:29Speaker 00

  More in my life.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:39:30Speaker 00

  But they truly understand what it is to court, love, maintain a relationship with a woman. They're the only women that understand what guys go through with women. And I mean this, like, you will never have a better hang than with a stud lesbian. I mean it sincerely.

• 1:39:50Speaker 02

  Are you speaking from personal experience?

• 1:39:52Speaker 00

  Of course, like literally them being able to talk and understand, and they understand it better than us. Because they also have some of those feelings. So you, it's, you wanna talk about venting? You could genuinely vent in a way where they understand everything you're saying, validate all your frustrations, and give you tips how to communicate with them.

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  Son, he's so right.

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Yasmin, who you worked with to do the guest booking for Modern Wisdom when you came on, she's married to a woman. And I'm like, we're two peas in a pod.

• 1:40:19Speaker 00

  This is what I wish, I wish lesbians and straight guys had the type of relationship that it's, girls and gay guys had. I wish it.

• 1:40:28Speaker 02

  The headline of it sounds so predatory.

• 1:40:30Speaker 00

  Throwing dildos on the WNBA courts, so now they're fucking upset with us. But we have everything in our power to have this like unbelievable connectivity.

• 1:40:38Speaker 02

  What a bond.

• 1:40:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:40:39Speaker 02

  And this would fix the male loneliness crisis?

• 1:40:41Speaker 00

  Exactly. Bro, keep going.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  That's a good point.

• 1:40:43Speaker 02

  I'm struggling, I'm struggling with women.

• 1:40:45Speaker 00

  And we're the best hang. Guys, the straight guys are the, not, not just straight guys, just guys are the best hang. And we know that just because women choose to hang with us, gay or straight. Like we, we by far are the best hang. There's no better hang than guys. But lesbians understand women and the frustration. Like you can't really, like you complain to your boys about like your girl, but you can't probably get as in-depth as when you're with.

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  You're not gonna understand the psychology of this thing.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Where do we meet a lesbian? Like, women, like straight women and gay guys meet each other like Pilates and stuff.

• 1:41:17Speaker 00

  Home Depot.

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  Subaru dealership?

• 1:41:21Speaker 00

  Lowe's.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:22Speaker 00

  You ever go to Lowe's?

• 1:41:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can meet them in Lowe's.

• 1:41:24Speaker 00

  They got you at Lowe's.

• 1:41:26Speaker 02

  What do you think they're doing in Lowe's?

• 1:41:28Speaker 00

  You know, billing.

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:30Speaker 02

  Copying.

• 1:41:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, something, I don't know. Lesbians are out there, they're working too. There's no like, they're grinding. Cause they gotta, they gotta earn theirs. No one's taking care of them. No one's taking care of them. They gotta take care of themselves. They understand the, the responsibility of care.

• 1:41:45Speaker 02

  You have two masculine women in a relationship, both crushing it.

• 1:41:50Speaker 00

  No one's taking care of you.

• 1:41:50Speaker 02

  No risk of kids?

• 1:41:51Speaker 00

  No one's saving you.

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  Unless very planned.

• 1:41:52Speaker 00

  There's no OnlyFans. There's no, oh, I'm gonna be a stripper. There's none of the, the, the little like safeguards that like, I don't think.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  Oh, the cheat codes have all been taken away.

• 1:42:01Speaker 00

  They're gone. They, I'm telling you, we need a, we need a, we need a Facebook group. We need something.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  This brings me to a good question. Can a, a straight man and a straight woman be platonic friends? Real friends?

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  Research suggests no.

• 1:42:18Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  Research suggests no. So there's something called the male overestimation and the female underestimation bias. So typically, it is flowing from man to woman. Like, most men believe that a female friend is as attracted to the man as the man is to the woman. So they have what's called a poor cross-sex mind reading, like poor theory of mind for the other sex. Like they use how I feel about them.

• 1:42:44Speaker 00

  Must be how they feel about you.

• 1:42:45Speaker 02

  Must be how they feel about me. And you combine that with this over-optimization bias, which is kind of like a smoke detector. It is evolutionary way more advantageous for you to think it's on when it's not than for it to be on and you not realize.

• 1:42:58Speaker 00

  I never, I never could tell. I was horrible at that.

• 1:43:01Speaker 02

  Where people are like, dude, you know she, you know she, and you're like, what?

• 1:43:05Speaker 00

  Nah, never.

• 1:43:06Speaker 02

  You had a bad, I don't even know what to, that's like not a gay, that's like a.

• 1:43:09Speaker 00

  I got a straight dar. I got a bad straight dar.

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  Your own dar.

• 1:43:12Speaker 00

  I have bad dar. I got no dar, bro.

• 1:43:14Speaker 02

  You literally have no dar at all.

• 1:43:15Speaker 00

  I was Stevie Wonder, bro. I was just shooting, bro, blonde.

• 1:43:19Speaker 02

  Trying to chat up some chick that's got no interest in you meanwhile, there's someone over the far side.

• 1:43:23Speaker 00

  And then it happens. I was like, yo, turns out it happened. Like, I was always surprised by it, yeah. Unless it was like overt, like obviously there was, if a girl DMs you some shit, then you can kinda know. But it would have to be glaring.

• 1:43:35Speaker 02

  What do you guys think about the platonic, truly platonic friendship thing, men to women?

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  It's very case by case.

• 1:43:43Speaker 00

  I think you could both do it in committed relationships. But once you're in committed relationships, like, there's no extra time. We're already at a deficit and I'm gonna not hang out with my wife to hang out with my friend that's a girl and hot?

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I think maybe committed relationship. I also think if you grow up together. Like if you, if you grow up together from a young age, I think you, you create like a sibling type pair bond.

• 1:44:07Speaker 00

  Nah, cause I saw them titty sprout.

• 1:44:12Speaker 00

  So it's like, nah, dude, there's no.

• 1:44:15Speaker 02

  Formative experience in my childhood.

• 1:44:17Speaker 00

  I saw you have the wire on the bra and I was like, what's that holding up? You need a wire now?

• 1:44:21Speaker 01

  Sisters, though.

• 1:44:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I mean, I, I assume you don't wanna smash your sisters, Mark, like that.

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  That's my point, is that if you're friends from a young age, if you guys grow up together, you guys can just be friends.

• 1:44:31Speaker 00

  I don't think it's possible, bro.

• 1:44:33Speaker 02

  Do you wanna know why you don't wanna have sex with your sisters? Do you wanna know why?

• 1:44:36Speaker 01

  Speak for yourself.

• 1:44:37Speaker 02

  Called the only child. Get out of jail free card. Uh, it's called the Westermark effect.

• 1:44:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:44:42Speaker 02

  So what we might think is you just have some inbuilt detector that knows your genetics.

• 1:44:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  It's like, that's my sister. That's not the way that it works. What happens is if you grow up through infancy, early childhood, so from like one to nine, 10 years old, and you see your parents caring, specifically mum breastfeeding, but like your parents caring, tending for other children in the household, you assume that's my sibling, must not have. And then you get sexual revulsion, sexual disgust. That's one of the reasons. So there's a, a culture, I think it's in Thailand, where families choose the future wife of their son.

• 1:45:22Speaker 00

  And raise them together.

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  And raise them together.

• 1:45:24Speaker 00

  I saw that.

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  What they don't realize is that this hits the Westermark window and.

• 1:45:28Speaker 00

  Now they're grossed out.

• 1:45:30Speaker 02

  Now they're grossed out. So that's why.

• 1:45:31Speaker 00

  Fucking ladyboys.

• 1:45:34Speaker 00

  That was probably the precursor to the greatest cultural export in history since Thailand. Not even export, it's more like a come here and get it.

• 1:45:42Speaker 02

  It's bait.

• 1:45:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:45:44Speaker 01

  Whoa, that's crazy.

• 1:45:46Speaker 02

  That's why.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  So what happened in, in that case? Like, did they, did they stop doing that?

• 1:45:50Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I think they tried to just do the arranged marriage and like grit your teeth and get through it.

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:55Speaker 00

  That's what a lot of people in arranged marriages do, but it's interesting that that backfired. Yeah, but I don't know. Why don't you wanna smash your sisters?

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  I mean, this is.

• 1:46:04Speaker 02

  Westermark window.

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, Westermark window. That's the thing I was thinking.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  Get out of jail free card.

• 1:46:08Speaker 00

  But Mark was the youngest, so he didn't see them get breastfed.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Speaker 00

  So he has no reason to not like them.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  The caring, tending. Do you know about the birth order effect? Do you know this? So the more older male siblings that you have, or that any child has, the higher the likelihood of you being gay.

• 1:46:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  Only males, only males. So if you have older brothers.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  Help me.

• 1:46:32Speaker 02

  Older brothers. And this works for both men and women.

• 1:46:33Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:46:34Speaker 02

  So it increases the likelihood of a future son being gay, and it increases the future likelihood of a daughter being lesbian.

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  Okay, but how many? Come on, finish the step.

• 1:46:43Speaker 02

  What you mean?

• 1:46:43Speaker 00

  He has two older male siblings and he didn't have sex until he was married and has only slept with one girl.

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  And he turns down pussy in his dreams.

• 1:46:52Speaker 00

  In his dreams, he turns down pussy. This guy is fucking gay.

• 1:46:58Speaker 00

  I wore a cardigan.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  This outfit is crazy.

• 1:47:01Speaker 00

  I don't usually make fun of his outfits.

• 1:47:04Mark Gagnon?

  This is a nice outfit.

• 1:47:05Speaker 02

  Sexy grandma.

• 1:47:07Speaker 00

  What do you mean?

• 1:47:07Speaker 01

  This is a nice outfit.

• 1:47:09Speaker 00

  Mark is the most fashion forward of all of us and that's gonna kill Alex.

• 1:47:12Mark Gagnon?

  He's trying to troll me, it's fine.

• 1:47:14Speaker 00

  No, he's the most fashion fo- you're not as forward as Mark.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, you dress for PE. This is not forward at all. This is like, it's childish.

• 1:47:21Speaker 00

  You dress for PE, bro.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:23Speaker 00

  This is childish.

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  He's wearing a basketball outfit. This is childish.

• 1:47:26Speaker 00

  I thought you were talking about private equity.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  I'm like, what the fuck is happening over here?

• 1:47:29Speaker 02

  Try again, try again, try again, try again.

• 1:47:32Speaker 00

  I'm trying to yes in him, bro.

• 1:47:33Speaker 01

  I didn't even know I was yesing.

• 1:47:35Mark Gagnon?

  This guy is too out of touch, bro.

• 1:47:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm washed. I'm washed, okay. But like, okay, yes. So what I'm saying is, his fashion shit is avant garde. Yours is less avant garde.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  You've got first mover disadvantage in the fashion world.

• 1:47:48Mark Gagnon?

  Exactly, you gotta just wait, everyone's wearing cardigans.

• 1:47:50Speaker 02

  We're gonna be in cardigans in five years' time.

• 1:47:52Speaker 00

  Dame Dash. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, Dame Dash.

• 1:47:58Speaker 00

  But this is forward, like, we're gonna be on this in like seven years.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you could never.

• 1:48:04Speaker 00

  I'm not saying you're not fashionable.

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  He's dressed like a Williamsburg lesbian, like, nobody is in a rush to get there.

• 1:48:09Speaker 00

  See why we need lesbians?

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's why we're friends.

• 1:48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:12Speaker 02

  Got done so well.

• 1:48:13Speaker 00

  Loki?

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  Now you're a friend of lesbians.

• 1:48:15Speaker 00

  Loki? They're best friends.

• 1:48:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:48:18Speaker 00

  Who?

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  Miles and Mark.

• 1:48:20Speaker 00

  But wait, what does that got to do with it?

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  He hangs out with a lesbian.

• 1:48:23Mark Gagnon?

  That's why they're best friends.

• 1:48:24Speaker 00

  Miles does have a lot of gay friends.

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, why is that? Explain him.

• 1:48:27Mark Gagnon?

  And he falls in love with lesbians all the time.

• 1:48:29Speaker 00

  He's phenomenal with women.

• 1:48:31Speaker 02

  Yep. Available women?

• 1:48:33Speaker 00

  Available women, phenomenal with them. He has no approach anxiety whatsoever. He's literally putting his camera on right now.

• 1:48:41Mark Gagnon?

  If I have to be, if I'm gonna talk.

• 1:48:43Speaker 00

  No, I'm teasing, obviously. Um, but, and then he has tons of, uh, over indexes with male gay friends. No lesbian friends.

• 1:48:55Mark Gagnon?

  But he falls in love with lesbians.

• 1:48:56Speaker 00

  Falls in love with lesbians, prefers lesbians. What a conundrum this guy.

• 1:49:00Mark Gagnon?

  He just likes to suffer.

• 1:49:02Speaker 00

  What do you think it is, Miles?

• 1:49:04Mark Gagnon?

  I have lesbian friends.

• 1:49:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does have lesbian friends.

• 1:49:07Mark Gagnon?

  And gay friends.

• 1:49:08Speaker 01

  But he just hangs out with gay people.

• 1:49:10Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  But he's not gay.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  This just sounds like someone who's very social.

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  But he did kiss a dude.

• 1:49:14Speaker 00

  He kissed a dude? He has, but he has-

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  One time.

• 1:49:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, just one time.

• 1:49:18Mark Gagnon?

  Thank you for kavoting for me, for catching that.

• 1:49:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, we had one time that we know of.

• 1:49:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

• 1:49:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's on record publicly one time.

• 1:49:26Speaker 02

  You see that there's a priest in New Jersey who's trying to do exorcisms by sucking dick?

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  Whoa, let me Google it.

• 1:49:32Speaker 02

  Pull it up.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  You know, you know.

• 1:49:36Mark Gagnon?

  He gave him the cardigan.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  Imagine if we pulled it up and Miles is like, it's my friend.

• 1:49:43Speaker 00

  There's a priest in New Jersey that's-

• 1:49:45Speaker 02

  New Jersey sucking dick exorcisms through the penis. It's like sucking the sin out of them. Literally, news article that came out yesterday, day before.

• 1:49:54Speaker 00

  Does that work, though? Because maybe for, for, maybe wives need an-

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  Okay, alright, he's not Catholic, okay, first off.

• 1:50:02Speaker 00

  What do you mean he's not Catholic?

• 1:50:04Speaker 02

  Pastor, sorry, not priest.

• 1:50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is a-

• 1:50:06Speaker 00

  That's a Catholic, uh, choker?

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the Lutherans, they biting our shit all the time, dude. Yeah, he's Presbyterian, come on, dude, of course.

• 1:50:13Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  This makes so much sense, actually.

• 1:50:16Speaker 02

  Pastor accused of using sexual exorcism rituals to remove evil spirits.

• 1:50:20Speaker 00

  I thought exorcism is just the Catholics.

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  I mean, we-

• 1:50:24Speaker 02

  Three men and one woman.

• 1:50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  Interesting, though.

• 1:50:27Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  Wait, what? Equal opportunity abuser.

• 1:50:30Speaker 00

  Whoa. Nah, that's commitment to the bit.

• 1:50:34Speaker 02

  He was not criminally convicted in connection with these allegations.

• 1:50:37Speaker 00

  You know what's funny is that by doing it to a dude, I believe he believes it. You know what I mean? Like, like if he was just doing it to the female parishioners, is that the term?

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:48Speaker 00

  Then I, right, like, then I'm like, oh, he's just trying to eat pussy. But if you suck one dick, I'm like, this guy is devout.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:55Speaker 00

  He is religious.

• 1:50:56Speaker 02

  Skin and a core skin in the game.

• 1:50:58Speaker 00

  All of it.

• 1:50:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's like sucking out a venom from a snake bite.

• 1:51:02Speaker 00

  Dude.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:03Speaker 00

  Which doesn't even work.

• 1:51:04Speaker 02

  Galante, I was watching. He said it, sat right here.

• 1:51:06Speaker 01

  He said it was bullshit.

• 1:51:07Speaker 02

  Fucking bullshit.

• 1:51:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:08Speaker 02

  Just sucking a guy, or sucking a friend's arm for ages for no reason.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:11Mark Gagnon?

  Giving him a hickey.

• 1:51:13Speaker 01

  I mean, that's cra- so is this, is this criminal? Did he go to jail for this?

• 1:51:15Speaker 02

  It says at the bottom, uh, he was not criminally convicted in connection with these allegations.

• 1:51:19Speaker 00

  We're not even asking if it worked. Like, that's what you gotta ask. Like, did they get exorcised?

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  According to a lawsuit, the rituals involve feathers, gemstones, coins, and other objects placed on their bodies, and eventually sexual acts that weber allegedly claimed would remove evil spirits from them. That's some elaborate foreplay.

• 1:51:35Speaker 00

  Wow, but did the evil spirits come out?

• 1:51:39Speaker 02

  Would that change, would that change your perspective on this?

• 1:51:43Speaker 00

  I mean, I think it would be completely justified.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  Personal clarity?

• 1:51:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. True or false?

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  Post-exorcism clarity?

• 1:51:48Speaker 00

  The Lord works in mysterious ways. If, if, if a pastor could have sucked the psychosis out of Lindsay Clancy.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:51:58Speaker 00

  Would we have convicted him or something? I don't know, like, it seems to me that's a good thing to happen. I got so much mental health issues in my family. If there was a pastor that could just suck it out of them? If, if a pastor could suck the memory back in my dad?

• 1:52:17Speaker 00

  You're telling me I wouldn't let him have a go at it?

• 1:52:19Speaker 02

  Well, you wouldn't wanna know. That is worth a shot.

• 1:52:21Speaker 01

  You wouldn't wanna know.

• 1:52:22Speaker 00

  Well, I would hope the memory came back right after he finished sucking. He wouldn't even remember that.

• 1:52:26Speaker 02

  Question.

• 1:52:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you don't wanna know.

• 1:52:28Speaker 02

  What is the percentage success rate that it would need to be in order for you to support that for your dad?

• 1:52:35Speaker 00

  Well, what's a COVID vaccine?

• 1:52:38Speaker 02

  I had no idea.

• 1:52:39Speaker 00

  It's like, two out of 10 work or something like that?

• 1:52:43Speaker 02

  If I said, if I said it was, there was a 30% chance that it fixed everything?

• 1:52:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:52:49Speaker 02

  10%?

• 1:52:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  Okay, right, so, okay, it's just like, it's, I really want this to happen. So 1% is like-

• 1:52:54Speaker 00

  At 1%, you do it 100 times.

• 1:52:59Speaker 02

  Not convinced that's how percentages work, but that's still-

• 1:53:01Speaker 00

  But if it, in my brain, it is. So it's like, if it's 1%, over 100 times, it's gonna work. One of those times, you hope it's not the 100th. You hope it's around like 20.

• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:53:11Speaker 00

  You know? And then boom, you got it back, you got your memory back.

• 1:53:14Speaker 02

  Also, he's accumulated some skills during that time. Like, think about the time the area spent under the curve.

• 1:53:18Speaker 00

  So many demons sucked out.

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  Doing the twisty thing?

• 1:53:22Speaker 00

  I mean, if, I don't know if that's how you get a demon out.

• 1:53:28Speaker 00

  But maybe that is how you get a demon out. But that's the thing, the second magic works, you can't criticize it, no matter how goofy it is. If it works!

• 1:53:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. Now, what if it's a placebo?

• 1:53:43Speaker 00

  Then it, did it work?

• 1:53:44Speaker 01

  It did.

• 1:53:45Speaker 00

  If it works, then it let you let it go.

• 1:53:46Speaker 02

  You're very much a means justify, uh, ends justify the means kinda guy here.

• 1:53:50Speaker 00

  Uh, guys, if you have uncurable shit and you could stick a gemstone in my dad's urethra? And then this pastor could suck it out? And then immediately, my dad is cured of Alzheimer's. There's no more Alzheimer's. He remembers everything.

• 1:54:09Speaker 01

  So what happens when you take him out for dinner and he goes, Andrew, so great to see you again. How did I get cured, by the way?

• 1:54:15Speaker 00

  I said the Lord cured you.

• 1:54:17Speaker 02

  I found a gemstone in my pants earlier on.

• 1:54:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. I said, well, that's a just in case if that shit comes back.

• 1:54:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, pop it in there, let's go, like, but I, the ends justify the means, for sure.

• 1:54:30Speaker 01

  What if it's flipped?

• 1:54:32Speaker 00

  What if it's flipped what? What, Miles?

• 1:54:34Speaker 01

  Say it.

• 1:54:35Speaker 00

  What if it's flipped?

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  What if there's a guy that has a magical elixir in his ball bag?

• 1:54:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  And if you're able to consume it, it cures you of any type of ailment.

• 1:54:43Speaker 00

  Well, what's the ailment? I have an Achilles issue I'd like to figure out.

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  How much do you care about your padel game?

• 1:54:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do care a lot about it, and you're saying, would I give fellatio to a guy?

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  Would you fellate a man to improve your Achilles?

• 1:54:55Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, just a teabag.

• 1:54:56Speaker 00

  Improve?

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  Fix, never have to worry about it again.

• 1:55:00Speaker 00

  It, did I have a full rupture or I just have some minor fraying? I noticed your scar right there.

• 1:55:05Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:55:05Speaker 00

  So you can actually speak to this better than I can?

• 1:55:07Speaker 02

  You do not want that 12-month recovery.

• 1:55:10Speaker 00

  So, and all you have to do is, you have to-

• 1:55:12Speaker 02

  Do completion.

• 1:55:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, but depending on how much you really want to get better, that's not that long.

• 1:55:20Speaker 02

  How long's your memory gonna stay with you?

• 1:55:22Speaker 00

  The memory's gonna stay with you no matter how long you suck it. The question is, are you gonna suck it shitty for your ego?

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  You're talking about enthusiasm.

• 1:55:30Speaker 00

  Cause that's your ego. If you're like, you know what I mean? Like, your ego is stopping you from doing exactly what you know how to do.

• 1:55:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:39Speaker 00

  But now, you're suffering longer for your ego when you could just go full bore and it's 20 seconds tops.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  Pretend like it's token resistance.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:48Speaker 00

  You drink a orange juice.

• 1:55:51Speaker 01

  Wait, what does that have to do with that?

• 1:55:53Speaker 00

  Saliva's sticky.

• 1:55:56Speaker 00

  You drink a full OJ.

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  Dave knows game.

• 1:55:58Speaker 00

  And not a bar orange juice. You gotta get like the one with the pulp in it, like, where you can all, you're, it's almost like you can't even swallow. Like, it's like, uh, it's like Spider-Man's weapon, you know what I mean? Like-

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  I should spend more time thinking about that, like, Tom Holland, just unbelievable game.

• 1:56:16Speaker 00

  Fantastic.

• 1:56:17Speaker 02

  What a fucking, what a fucking chat.

• 1:56:19Speaker 01

  Do you encourage this treatment for other people that you may know?

• 1:56:21Speaker 00

  Ends justify the means, guys. If you're telling me there's a guy with magical sperm that can cure a ruptured Achilles? Cage him up. I don't even think you let that guy be out there in public. I think you just have him as like-

• 1:56:37Speaker 02

  It's like the fountain of life.

• 1:56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:39Speaker 02

  The fountain of youth, fountain of Achilles.

• 1:56:40Mark Gagnon?

  Just a glory hole and you just, it's a healing hole, right?

• 1:56:46Speaker 00

  Make sure he's fed. Make sure he's fed, make sure he has all the things that he needs. But like, come on, bro, like, every NBA franchise would have one.

• 1:56:56Speaker 00

  You would breed them, right? Wouldn't you breed them just to have it on your-

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  Staff at all times.

• 1:57:01Speaker 00

  100%.

• 1:57:02Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, if you needed to get, what if you needed to get the player back onto the pitch quickly and the guy's on the sidelines? And you're like, he's there.

• 1:57:08Speaker 00

  You gotta do it.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  Like, lock in.

• 1:57:10Speaker 00

  You gotta do it.

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  You gotta lock in. There's a special cubicle. Like a little tent?

• 1:57:14Speaker 00

  In the, 100%, and nobody knows it's in that tent except you if you go through that entry. That's, to me, it's like, this is such a no-brainer. Uh, yeah, I mean, that's probably what it was like. I'm trying to think of, uh, like, the first people that had, um, what's that stuff called that cures all the illnesses? You take a, take a pill of it?

• 1:57:37Speaker 02

  To cure all-

• 1:57:37Mark Gagnon?

  Amoxicillin?

• 1:57:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:39Mark Gagnon?

  Antibiotic.

• 1:57:40Speaker 00

  Antibiotics, but amoxicillin. Like, the first people that had amoxicillin?

• 1:57:44Speaker 02

  This fixes everything.

• 1:57:46Speaker 00

  Can you imagine what that was like?

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  Penicillin?

• 1:57:50Speaker 00

  Also that.

• 1:57:50Speaker 01

  Is that what you guys are talking about?

• 1:57:52Speaker 02

  I don't know what they're talking about.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  How did you pull out amoxicillin?

• 1:57:54Speaker 00

  That's the better penicillin.

• 1:57:56Mark Gagnon?

  That's what you take when you get ear infections. And I have a lot of ear infections.

• 1:57:59Speaker 00

  But amoxicillin you can take for other things. Doesn't really matter. It's a cils.

• 1:58:02Speaker 02

  The ear infection community was praying at the altar.

• 1:58:05Speaker 00

  Yes. But like, imagine smallpox back in the day, right? There was a cure for smallpox. They eventually made the cure, right? Bro. It don't matter where you're getting that from. It's certain death.

• 1:58:22Speaker 00

  You wouldn't now?

• 1:58:22Speaker 02

  But I guess the question is, what is the severity of injury or illness? What, where does that need to be in order for this to be a justified solution to it?

• 1:58:30Speaker 00

  That's a good point.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  Cause you're talking the worst, the single worst, like one injury that occurs from athletics that you can get. 12 month rehab, totally awful, surgery on crutches for three months, not walking for another three.

• 1:58:42Speaker 00

  And never the same again.

• 1:58:43Speaker 02

  I disagree.

• 1:58:44Speaker 00

  You think?

• 1:58:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I managed to make the calf that was broken bigger than the one that wasn't.

• 1:58:48Speaker 00

  Bigger physically?

• 1:58:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and stronger, just as agile, just as much mobility.

• 1:58:52Speaker 00

  You think?

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  I think so. I mean, it could go again, but you know.

• 1:58:55Speaker 00

  God forbid it goes again.

• 1:58:56Speaker 02

  I did a, a piece of advice, if you do have to rupture a tendon, doing it during a pandemic is fucking great. Cause it doesn't feel like you're missing anything. It was fuck all, that was August 2020.

• 1:59:07Speaker 00

  How'd you rupture it?

• 1:59:08Speaker 02

  Playing cricket, very British way to do it. Setting off to run, just like the same ways you see people doing shuttle runs or hopping over a little step or something. Doing some workout class and then it sounds like a shotgun has gone off. But no, there's no pain, cause there's no, um, uh,

• 1:59:23Speaker 00

  Nerve endings.

• 1:59:24Speaker 02

  Vasulation, vasodilation or whatever it is, fucking, um, blood flow, no blood flow.

• 1:59:29Speaker 00

  Did you tear the actual tendon or the insertion point at the heel?

• 1:59:32Speaker 02

  So that's worse, that's worse, cause if it pulls, I was told this in the hospital, that if you pull it out from the heel, it's a bone, can like come out with it and then you need to re-tie it. No, it was in the middle, it was like a classic. And then I waited 13 days and got it surgically reattached, but they tried to do this, um, it's called a conservative.

• 1:59:50Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:59:50Speaker 02

  So they put your foot like this to shorten the distance between the tendon, they line it up using MRI. And then they just put you in a cast and like, hey, don't move. I was like, what do the athletes get? You know, like the rugby players and stuff, what did they do? No, all surgical. I was like,

• 2:00:04Speaker 00

  Well then, give me that one.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  Obviously pump me under, cut me open and fucking stitch it back together.

• 2:00:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00:08Speaker 02

  But yeah, the difference is, is like three times, four times as thick, so it's much more like, fucking fat cable now.

• 2:00:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it, but you still get like the fraying or whatever.

• 2:00:19Speaker 02

  It's not like a bone. You break a bone, you're pretty much never gonna break it in the same place again. It calcify back more firmly. Anyway, a piece of advice, cricket, more dangerous sport than it looks from the outside and don't rupture an Achilles. That's my.

• 2:00:29Speaker 00

  But the Achilles, it's like, there's nothing you really could have done better.

• 2:00:32Speaker 02

  It's just gonna go.

• 2:00:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  You can't stretch it though?

• 2:00:34Speaker 00

  You can, you can prepare it and you can stretch it, but like, what eventually you're gonna do is you're gonna push off while your Achilles is at full extension without even realizing it. So especially in cricket where it's like a, you hit it and then there's an immediate plant and then go.

• 2:00:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, wearing spikes on hard dirt, it's zero to a hundred.

• 2:00:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00:56Speaker 02

  But you can hang, from a healthy Achilles, you can hang a car off it. I think it's the strongest tendon in the body. So you can hang a car off an Achilles, but wear over time, not enough care, bit of tendonopathy and then it goes.

• 2:01:07Speaker 00

  I should have, mine should have gone a few weeks ago, but I was very fortunate that it didn't. So I had some minor fraying, I had a lot of pain around the insertion point. Yeah, I did the whole MRI and everything like that, like, yeah.

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  You are so fucking lucky dude.

• 2:01:18Speaker 00

  I'm very lucky, but now I'm in a whole fucking rehab shit and everything like that, so yeah.

• 2:01:22Speaker 02

  That is, because that would be you on stage and you wouldn't be on stage for six weeks, six months, sorry. Cause you can't have heart above foot, you need to permanently be bringing the fluid, because you can't pump your leg.

• 2:01:33Speaker 00

  There's no blood flow to the Achilles, almost zero. So in terms of it recovering, like, did you do the shockwave or the PRP or anything like that?

• 2:01:40Speaker 02

  I didn't do any of that because especially during COVID and being in the northeast of the UK, it's not exactly like forward thinking. I did do BBC 157, the peptide and TB 500. So I've managed to get a hold of some peptides in 2020, which now feels like kind of standard protocol, but back then was like, oh, it's kind of forward thinking.

• 2:01:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  Um, did that, and then when I was recording the podcast in my old bedroom in Newcastle, I set up a like special recording thing with my foot elevated above my heart and like blowjob view for the fucking guests, like highly uncomfortable.

• 2:02:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  Uh, but yeah, it's, it's fucking ruthless dude, I would not advise it to anybody.

• 2:02:15Speaker 00

  Damn. See what I'm saying? Ends just about.

• 2:02:19Speaker 01

  Just one suck and all that's done.

• 2:02:21Speaker 00

  Don't you feel that way with any magic, like if you, or not even magic, just like some like eastern medicine? Like, is that what people do when they're doing the suction shit in your back or like, what is the Asian thing?

• 2:02:31Speaker 02

  Cupping.

• 2:02:31Speaker 00

  Cupping and then what is that?

• 2:02:33Speaker 02

  If it works, it doesn't matter.

• 2:02:35Speaker 00

  What is, what is it called? Would they put the little?

• 2:02:38Speaker 02

  Acupuncture.

• 2:02:39Speaker 00

  Acupuncture, like all these things, like you're like, okay, it doesn't work, but like it does.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  So this is, I think this is what, like when most people talk past each other with different modalities, like someone says, meditation really worked for me, but breath worked in, or cold plunges really worked for me, but running doesn't. Or endurance racing really works for me, but I hate bodybuilding. It's like a bunch of people who are actually really different to each other, saying, this is the thing that worked for me. And given I know how bad I was and how good I got, I'm gonna like evangelize about this shit on you. Same way as you guys were like, you know what, like, I had this social anxiety thing, but then I started stand up and it really like helped me to get, or whatever, whatever it was. Communication, improved my communication, someone else tries it and it doesn't have the same effect. Everybody is an evangelist for the thing that they did that totally fucking fixed them. Therefore, someone else who isn't you, without your priors, tries the same thing, is like, well, that didn't fucking work.

• 2:03:27Speaker 02

  It must be bullshit as opposed to I'm just not you.

• 2:03:30Speaker 00

  It is bullshit.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  He's the worst.

• 2:03:33Speaker 00

  No, no, no, it is bullshit, but it doesn't, but it's not your bullshit. We're saying the same thing, I agree with you.

• 2:03:41Speaker 01

  It's not bullshit though.

• 2:03:42Speaker 00

  Like it works for some people.

• 2:03:44Speaker 02

  I thought that the ends justified the means.

• 2:03:45Speaker 00

  No, that's what I'm saying, it's all bullshit, but if it works for you, it's not bullshit.

• 2:03:50Speaker 02

  So is there some things that are less bullshit than others? Because they work to more people.

• 2:03:54Speaker 00

  Ice baths are bullshit.

• 2:03:56Speaker 02

  I would agree.

• 2:03:57Speaker 00

  But some people like to start their day, I imagine, skydiving. You know what I mean? Where it's just like, I feel horrible, I feel horrible and I'm alive. And that's a nice boost in the beginning of your fucking day. And if that's what you like, that's good. I don't like that shit. Like I'm in a ice bath and I got out, I don't feel that good. I, I feel colder than I was. I don't like cold, I never have liked it, I'll never like it. So to me, it's bullshit.

• 2:04:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:04:26Speaker 00

  But some people, they like that, I'm cold, I'm not. Do you know what I mean? It's like Jews and Muslims like for their holidays, when they're like, I'm starving, I'm not.

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  Fasting?

• 2:04:37Speaker 00

  Yeah. That's stupid, but like if it works for you, then great, like.

• 2:04:42Speaker 01

  But what about medicine? Is medicine bullshit?

• 2:04:46Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:04:47Speaker 01

  Why?

• 2:04:48Speaker 00

  Cause it's medicine.

• 2:04:50Speaker 01

  Cause it works for you.

• 2:04:52Speaker 00

  No, medicine works for all. There's nobody that medicine doesn't work for.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  Chemotherapy doesn't work for everyone.

• 2:04:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does, just not to a certain extent. If you're riddled, it's not gonna work, but if it's just a little amount, I'm sure that you can get it out of there, right?

• 2:05:08Speaker 01

  I mean, there's some people that their brain doesn't like uptake psilocybin, so mushroom, they can't trip.

• 2:05:13Speaker 00

  I don't believe that.

• 2:05:14Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:05:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:15Speaker 00

  I don't believe that.

• 2:05:16Speaker 02

  Some people are immune to psilocybin.

• 2:05:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have like a binding issue in their brain where like they don't attach themselves to the actual property of psilocybin.

• 2:05:24Speaker 00

  So some people are stupid. But like, if we're talking about most people, like human beings, most human beings.

• 2:05:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:31Speaker 00

  If they try Molly, they'll feel good.

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  So then by that logic, if 51% of people report that acupuncture is good for them, then it's not bullshit.

• 2:05:37Speaker 00

  I'm not going off 51, Molly is 99.9%.

• 2:05:40Speaker 01

  You said most though, you said most.

• 2:05:41Speaker 00

  By most, I mean 99.9%.

• 2:05:43Speaker 02

  Could you be, could you imagine if you were someone that can just champ MDMA and it would never impact you?

• 2:05:47Speaker 00

  I have a friend who may or may not be in this office right now, that can take MDMA and has no side effects.

• 2:05:54Speaker 02

  How are they not addicted? That man has a woman.

• 2:05:59Speaker 00

  They're not addicted. They're not addicted at all.

• 2:06:03Speaker 02

  That person has.

• 2:06:04Speaker 01

  I wanna know who the fuck we talking about?

• 2:06:07Speaker 00

  You, you know him very well. My friend since high school.

• 2:06:10Speaker 02

  Very difficult.

• 2:06:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, no negative side effects.

• 2:06:13Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 2:06:14Speaker 00

  Now, what is, it is crazy now. It's, yeah, it's crazy that he doesn't do it every single day.

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Maybe there would be side effects though, if you do it every day.

• 2:06:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:06:25Speaker 02

  Fucking awesome life.

• 2:06:26Speaker 00

  But if I do it once, I feel it, but it feels so good. But that's, that's medicine, that works. That's like drugs, you know what I mean? Like, like if you take a Tesla pill, you're gonna feel it. Acupuncture and Tesla pill is not the same efficacy. Tesla pill, completely disconnected to Elon, yet it's so good, you think maybe he is in some way involved in it.

• 2:06:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:06:50Speaker 00

  It's great branding. So good.

• 2:06:51Speaker 02

  It is great branding.

• 2:06:52Speaker 00

  Have you ever had a Tesla?

• 2:06:54Speaker 02

  No. Orange Rock Stars were the thing this season I did in Ibiza. Orange Rock Stars.

• 2:07:01Speaker 00

  And how was it?

• 2:07:02Speaker 01

  All names with the same shit.

• 2:07:03Speaker 00

  It's so good.

• 2:07:05Speaker 02

  It's very good.

• 2:07:05Speaker 00

  I want, I don't wanna promote this.

• 2:07:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't do it.

• 2:07:08Speaker 02

  No, I highly recommend that nobody do what I also didn't do ever.

• 2:07:12Speaker 00

  But it's so worth promoting.

• 2:07:15Speaker 02

  I heard allegedly these Orange Rock Stars were fantastic.

• 2:07:18Speaker 00

  Promoting and it's probably got, they probably figured it out by now.

• 2:07:23Speaker 02

  You think that perfected the?

• 2:07:24Speaker 00

  Not perfected, but like I imagine, you know, it's, it's in the pressed pill, maybe there's no fentanyl in there, like.

• 2:07:30Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I, you have to assume like technology's improved from when we were twenties, party era stuff. It's gotta be hard to say no, if there is something even more effective that's put in front of you now.

• 2:07:43Speaker 00

  I want it to punch me in my face. I want it bad.

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  I want it.

• 2:07:51Speaker 00

  I haven't done any, since I had kids, since before I had kids, I haven't done any like hard drugs.

• 2:07:56Speaker 02

  Orange Rock Star.

• 2:07:57Speaker 00

  Oh, and tell me the feel, cause some, you, sometimes you have the pills and they're not that great, like.

• 2:08:02Speaker 02

  What's the description of this? Go to the description. These are larger than other rock stars that are around, not as very, very well pressed, as they crumble quite easily. Test came out, orange in the pick, uh, amphetamines.

• 2:08:15Speaker 00

  Is this a website that breaks down?

• 2:08:17Speaker 01

  You never heard of this?

• 2:08:18Speaker 00

  Drugs?

• 2:08:18Speaker 02

  Is there a reason it says northeast above it? Is that like northeast of the UK?

• 2:08:23Speaker 01

  I'm assuming, I mean, this guy's.

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  Cause that's where I'm from.

• 2:08:26Speaker 01

  Spelled color of the U.

• 2:08:27Speaker 02

  So again, allegedly.

• 2:08:28Speaker 00

  Look up Tesla pills right now.

• 2:08:30Speaker 01

  Well, hold on, let's get.

• 2:08:32Speaker 02

  Rating adulterated, but surely that's just the one you got.

• 2:08:36Speaker 00

  The pill I got?

• 2:08:37Speaker 02

  Like, no, this guy's tested a pill and has said, oh, this is adulterated. It's not, it's stepped on, it's impure, it's whatever.

• 2:08:46Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 2:08:46Speaker 02

  But like, the reason that people make these is because the good one, again, speaking as a club promoter for a decade and a half, the good stuff that everybody wanted very quickly, like a fucking Van Cleef. How many people on street corners are selling Van Cleef? Why? Because the real thing is really desirable.

• 2:09:03Speaker 00

  Oh, so you think that there's a lot of fake pills?

• 2:09:06Speaker 02

  Hundred percent, there's a lot of fake pills.

• 2:09:07Speaker 00

  Oh, well, how the fuck do we know if we're getting it? Wait, was it Tesla, that color? Was it?

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  There's a bunch of different colors.

• 2:09:12Mark Gagnon?

  I was blue. I mean.

• 2:09:14Speaker 00

  What was ours? What color was ours? It was blue, right? Because then there was a purple one that we did too, that wasn't the Tesla, wasn't as good.

• 2:09:21Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:22Speaker 01

  Is it this one?

• 2:09:22Mark Gagnon?

  I don't know what you're talking about.

• 2:09:23Speaker 02

  Green Tesla reboot.

• 2:09:24Speaker 00

  Was it green or was it per, was it blue?

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:09:27Speaker 02

  Speckles keep going down. Tested only to say what it is.

• 2:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's somewhere around here. I don't know where the full report is.

• 2:09:34Speaker 00

  So there's a whole website that just, just ranks every single drug.

• 2:09:37Speaker 02

  But again, like, that's only assuming that they've got the right one and that you've got the right one too.

• 2:09:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:42Speaker 02

  Or else it's like, oh, this thing's stepped on or whatever. And then the one that you've got's different.

• 2:09:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's kind of unfair because then they'd have to try.

• 2:09:48Speaker 02

  All of them, they'd have to try yours. Hey, give me one of yours. And then.

• 2:09:52Speaker 00

  So how can we make sure that we're getting the, the actual pills?

• 2:09:56Speaker 02

  I think that's what the, the dark web tried to solve for, right? The Silk Road and all of those like dark web delivery services were trying to solve for this because there was reviews. It was like eBay or Amazon.

• 2:10:10Speaker 00

  So you could review your dealer?

• 2:10:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:13Speaker 00

  But that's so incriminating because then if you get in touch with that dealer.

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  It was anonymized.

• 2:10:19Speaker 02

  The whole thing was done on the dark web. You know the story, right? The Silk Road?

• 2:10:22Speaker 00

  I, I genuinely did not know that that's what Silk Road was about.

• 2:10:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, a big chunk of it. Like, my sisters were getting like, uh, like buying crypto. They had like multiple like coins in like 2012, like buying like mushrooms and MDMA and shit.

• 2:10:37Speaker 00

  And what it was is to make sure that the people that are consuming the drugs were getting the most pure version of them? This is a good thing.

• 2:10:44Speaker 02

  Because there was a justification, there was basically skin in the game from the supplier or from the dealer.

• 2:10:48Speaker 00

  Absolutely. You don't want people hacking your shit.

• 2:10:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you get a bad review from someone, then people in future are going to buy from your competitor.

• 2:10:57Speaker 00

  This is a great idea.

• 2:11:00Speaker 02

  You know what's interesting? Who was the dude that did, um, the Silk Road? Who's the guy?

• 2:11:04Speaker 00

  Ross Ulbricht.

• 2:11:05Speaker 02

  Thank you. He's come out and hasn't done, as far as I'm aware, any press, zero. And he's now been, he got pardoned by Trump, right? Or released or whatever by Trump.

• 2:11:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. He should be.

• 2:11:15Speaker 01

  Well, you also get hitmen.

• 2:11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, he had some assassination, like, call out. He was using his own website for the same one that was reviewing all of this.

• 2:11:23Speaker 00

  He was trying to kill other people?

• 2:11:24Speaker 02

  That was the allegation. Whistleblowers, supposedly, allegedly.

• 2:11:26Speaker 00

  Were they selling fake drugs to kill people?

• 2:11:29Speaker 02

  No, they were gonna oust him. I think they were trying to blackmail him for more shares of the, there's some awesome YouTube documentaries about this.

• 2:11:37Speaker 00

  Let me understand this. So a man puts his life on the line to make sure that people are getting purified drugs. So they're not dying from these overdoses from probably China.

• 2:11:50Speaker 02

  Okay. Okay, go on.

• 2:11:53Speaker 00

  And then the people that are trying to take him out from literally saving lives of drug users all around the world. He already is operating in, under nefarious pretense. He's a drug dealer. So he does the drug dealer thing, tries to take them out.

• 2:12:11Speaker 02

  And justify the means. You're a very simple man.

• 2:12:15Speaker 00

  I am.

• 2:12:15Speaker 02

  You're a very straightforward man.

• 2:12:16Speaker 00

  Like, I don't know if that's that, but is he, you know, it's like Dexter, he's killing bad people.

• 2:12:21Mark Gagnon?

  But wasn't that other stuff going on in the dark web? Like kiddie porn?

• 2:12:24Speaker 00

  That's what I thought the Silk Road was all about, was like child porn or that shit.

• 2:12:29Speaker 01

  I mean, that's certainly a part of it, right? Like any type of dark.

• 2:12:32Speaker 02

  The Silk Road?

• 2:12:33Speaker 01

  I mean, to my understanding, I don't know. But like.

• 2:12:35Speaker 02

  I thought people selling that too.

• 2:12:36Mark Gagnon?

  Dark web in general.

• 2:12:37Speaker 01

  It's like it's a marketplace for literally everything that any type of regulation.

• 2:12:40Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:41Speaker 02

  I knew that people were getting cleaned weapons and shit like that off there, which is.

• 2:12:45Speaker 01

  Not great.

• 2:12:46Speaker 02

  Not fantastic.

• 2:12:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. You can just get anything, that's the idea.

• 2:12:49Speaker 00

  So who's doing Molly and sleeping with children?

• 2:12:56Speaker 00

  There's no way that that intersects at all.

• 2:12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like a Target superstore, you don't buy everything in the store. You know what I mean? You just go because you need one thing.

• 2:13:05Speaker 02

  It's like the Cheesecake Factory menu.

• 2:13:07Speaker 01

  Exactly, you're not gonna buy everything on the menu.

• 2:13:09Speaker 00

  But, but you understand there's no Venn diagram where enjoys Molly and children.

• 2:13:17Speaker 00

  Because.

• 2:13:18Speaker 02

  You think there was no Molly on Epstein's Island?

• 2:13:19Speaker 00

  No, because pedophiles, that's, their Molly is the children. Okay. Right?

• 2:13:26Mark Gagnon?

  You gotta ask that pastor in Jersey.

• 2:13:29Speaker 00

  You know what I mean? Like.

• 2:13:30Speaker 01

  I think he might disagree.

• 2:13:31Speaker 00

  You think? I don't know.

• 2:13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, there's a, I think.

• 2:13:34Speaker 00

  You think that crosses?

• 2:13:36Speaker 01

  I think people that do illegal things probably do more than one, if I had to guess.

• 2:13:40Speaker 02

  Degenerates will do degenerate shit.

• 2:13:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, if I had to guess, if I had to put money on it.

• 2:13:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:46Speaker 00

  Really?

• 2:13:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, pimps are probably selling drugs also, you know? You do illegal shit.

• 2:13:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, now that you guys are presenting it, it makes a lot more sense.

• 2:13:56Speaker 02

  Saying that the pimp isn't up to date on his tax returns?

• 2:13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:13:59Speaker 02

  Jimmy Carr.

• 2:14:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. See, it always goes back to that.

• 2:14:03Speaker 02

  Dressing like a pimp.

• 2:14:03Speaker 01

  Free Jimmy, dude.

• 2:14:04Speaker 00

  Free Jimmy, dude. Come on, alleged.

• 2:14:07Speaker 02

  Knight Jimmy.

• 2:14:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:14:09Speaker 00

  Oh, is he knighted?

• 2:14:10Speaker 02

  No, he should be.

• 2:14:11Speaker 00

  He'll get knighted, right?

• 2:14:13Speaker 02

  That, you know, you fucking evade tax once in the UK, you're a tax evader for life.

• 2:14:17Speaker 00

  Oh, wow, so that could be the one thing.

• 2:14:19Speaker 02

  That being said, he's got the new Top Gear job, which is basically probably better than being knighted.

• 2:14:23Speaker 00

  What's Top Gear?

• 2:14:24Speaker 02

  It's Jeremy Clarkson, the car guy. It's a, it was the number one show in the world.

• 2:14:29Speaker 01

  It was the number one show in the world for years.

• 2:14:30Speaker 00

  No, I've heard of the show Top Gear, but he's the host of Top Gear?

• 2:14:33Speaker 02

  The new host, he's Jeremy Clarkson's new replacement.

• 2:14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:36Speaker 02

  They had a group of people in between the Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and, uh, James May version. Brought some new people in, nearly killed one of them. That was, that was kind of gnarly. And then now they've got a new group and Jimmy's leading it.

• 2:14:51Speaker 00

  What do you think men's obsession with automobiles is?

• 2:14:54Speaker 02

  Fast, loud, fucking cool.

• 2:14:58Speaker 00

  Nothing deeper?

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, it's like, it's conspicuous consumption, again, male to male, intersexual competition that a chick doesn't know the difference between like a, a two SS Camaro and a base model Camaro. Probably doesn't know the difference between a base model Lamborghini and a, you know, super top of the range, fucking spider, soft up thing. Other guys do. So it's a subtle kind of signaling. It's a type of sort of communication from men to men, but also like fast, loud. Men tend to be more interested in things and women tend to be more interested in people. Like, on average, there's lots of crossover.

• 2:15:34Speaker 00

  What is it about this thing? F1, this is the most expensive sport in the world. They're probably the most consumed sport in the world.

• 2:15:42Speaker 02

  One of them, yeah, I think it's in the top 10 now, maybe, after the Netflix thing.

• 2:15:45Speaker 00

  I thought it's, I thought it's like a World Cup every single time they do one of these things.

• 2:15:49Speaker 02

  Not in terms of viewership. Tell you what's interesting, if you pull up, pull up the most popular sports in the world. And I don't think America, any American sports are in the top eight. Number one is football. Number two is cricket.

• 2:16:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that's like an India thing, like, yeah.

• 2:16:06Speaker 02

  Right, but don't dismiss it.

• 2:16:07Speaker 00

  Meaning, you've got 2 billion people that watch it. Like, I'm sure like the Chopstick Olympics is really popular, like, in, in Asia, right? Like, it's, it's just a numbers game at that point.

• 2:16:16Speaker 02

  You are, dude, field and ice hockey.

• 2:16:20Speaker 01

  Oh, we're up there. Wow.

• 2:16:22Speaker 00

  We're at basketball.

• 2:16:23Speaker 02

  Basketball, there you go.

• 2:16:25Speaker 01

  Here at basketball, big tennis.

• 2:16:26Speaker 02

  Tennis.

• 2:16:28Speaker 01

  Tennis and volleyball.

• 2:16:29Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:16:30Speaker 02

  Golf above basketball, brother.

• 2:16:31Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. But this is pop, golf is crazy because like, who can even play ball?

• 2:16:36Speaker 02

  Dude, that's, that's Asian supremacy.

• 2:16:37Speaker 00

  Exactly. This is, that's a population density thing. You can't really.

• 2:16:42Speaker 02

  Well, because it's localized somewhere that isn't here.

• 2:16:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it doesn't count.

• 2:16:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:16:48Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 2:16:48Speaker 01

  It's something Americans see.

• 2:16:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, we just, I mean, if I'm gonna be honest with you, we just think that they don't have enough money to like real sports. Right? Like, that's the soccer thing for America. It's like, that's the sport that you could play no matter what.

• 2:17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. With two T-shirts on the ground.

• 2:17:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:17:04Speaker 02

  Anything round.

• 2:17:06Speaker 00

  Of course it's gonna be played everywhere. Anybody can do it.

• 2:17:08Speaker 02

  That's true, the accessibility of it is high. Cricket, highly inaccessible sport.

• 2:17:12Speaker 00

  War zone. What did they play in World War II during Christmas?

• 2:17:16Speaker 02

  World War I.

• 2:17:17Speaker 00

  Even better.

• 2:17:19Speaker 02

  He's saying it was earlier.

• 2:17:20Speaker 00

  It's earlier, they're playing, right? They're, because there's no basketball hoops left.

• 2:17:23Speaker 02

  What's four, four and three?

• 2:17:26Speaker 01

  Tennis.

• 2:17:27Speaker 02

  Tennis.

• 2:17:27Speaker 00

  I don't believe.

• 2:17:28Speaker 02

  Field hockey, dude.

• 2:17:29Speaker 00

  I don't believe this. The tennis thing, who can afford to play tennis?

• 2:17:33Speaker 02

  But it's the fans, it's the fans of tennis.

• 2:17:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  Isn't it crazy that this number can be brought up or down by how good the few best people in the world are at a thing? Like, how much higher would UFC be if McGregor had just stayed on that track? Like, you can have one superstar that couldn't.

• 2:17:52Speaker 00

  McGregor was Indian. If McGregor was Indian, forget it.

• 2:17:55Speaker 02

  Game over.

• 2:17:55Speaker 00

  Biggest sport in the world.

• 2:17:57Speaker 02

  Absolutely game over.

• 2:17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, you would think they would try to game for that, though. Right? Like, hey, we're gonna go down to India and find an Indian McGregor.

• 2:18:03Speaker 00

  They've tried.

• 2:18:03Speaker 02

  They're definitely trying to do it with like Japan and I think China, there's a couple of those guys. The Korean zombie, they had that guy.

• 2:18:10Speaker 00

  Korea's always had a bunch of good fighters. China, they've had, they got, uh, what is it? Wang.

• 2:18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, the girl. I didn't even make that up.

• 2:18:17Speaker 02

  Throw a random Asian sounding surname out there and hope for the best.

• 2:18:20Speaker 00

  That's, yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm probably close. Wang Li, Wang Lei Li or something like that.

• 2:18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you're right.

• 2:18:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, and she was a beast, or she is a beast. But yeah.

• 2:18:30Speaker 02

  Yonmi Park.

• 2:18:31Speaker 00

  Yo, shout out Yonmi, man.

• 2:18:33Speaker 01

  Zhang Weili.

• 2:18:35Speaker 00

  Come on.

• 2:18:36Speaker 01

  Wang.

• 2:18:36Speaker 00

  I was very close and I apologize for that. My bad, my bad, my bad. That's close enough.

• 2:18:43Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 2:18:44Speaker 00

  It's close enough where it's like I'm aware of her.

• 2:18:48Speaker 00

  Zhang Weili. I said Wang. Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:18:56Speaker 01

  Something wrong.

• 2:18:58Speaker 02

  She thinks you're like Andy Schulz or something.

• 2:19:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:04Speaker 00

  Even in my own country, whenever I would do like the hood rooms when I was doing comedy starting up, my last name was whatever the last Jewish person that person spoke to. And I'm not even Jewish, but it would be like, give it up to Andrew Goldberg. And I'm like Goldberg.

• 2:19:21Speaker 00

  Okay, my boy. Before we get out of here, you are going on tour in the UK and Ireland. Can you explain what your tour is?

• 2:19:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so a live show, I'm doing 90 minutes solo on stage. I've spent a year building it. I did it around Australia, New Zealand and Bali at the start of this year. It was really great.

• 2:19:41Speaker 00

  With our boy James, shout out to James.

• 2:19:43Speaker 02

  James Smith is warming up for me.

• 2:19:44Speaker 00

  Alleged.

• 2:19:45Speaker 02

  People can get their tickets at chriswilliamson.live. There's a Q and A, bringing people up on stage, trying to solve problems, hear some funny stories from the audience. Psychology, philosophy, human nature, stories I can't tell on the internet, all that stuff. Really good. I have increasing respect for everything that you guys do, not just from like back to back nights of being knackered and then having to turn up and try and own an audience, but like the nervous system, the ups, the downs, the adrenaline, but it's cool. And I think that everybody should have something like this, which is if you get good or even approximating good at one thing, you don't want to take your eye off the ball. Cause okay, I've invested a lot of myself into doing that, which for me is the podcast, Modern Wisdom, go and subscribe. But there's like this thing that's kind of similar to it, doesn't fully take my eye off the ball.

• 2:20:28Speaker 02

  And it means I get to be a noob at something and I actually get to develop really quickly because all of the errors and the growing that you learn from bombing, like eating absolute shit as you're going through the work in progress shows. So I'd like to, I did.

• 2:20:44Speaker 00

  What does eating shit look like for your show?

• 2:20:47Speaker 02

  So I still do up top some laughy laughy stuff for about the first 10 minutes. Like again, I benefit massively from low expectations because everybody is basically, everyone, as far as I can see, most comedians' shows up until the point you get to as big as you are, is essentially an adversary in the audience. So they're like, all right, funny man.

• 2:21:05Speaker 00

  Ah, I see.

• 2:21:06Speaker 02

  You think you can make me, and then you win them over, but they're there in spite of you, not because of you, up until the point at which you're doing like, you know, big shows and stuff like that. So for me, if people are distracted, if they don't feel something, if they don't learn something, if they don't like go home and want to tell all of their friends about this insight or like, you know, make an impact. And then also it's, it's a TED Talk with fingering jokes in it. That's the best way I can describe it. TED Talk with fingering jokes, chriswilliamson.live, go and see me. Modern Wisdom on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, Chris Williamson on YouTube.

• 2:21:35Speaker 00

  You're a legend, man. Thank you so much for being here, brother.

• 2:21:38Speaker 02

  Thank you, man.

• 2:21:39Speaker 01

  Thank you, brother.

• 2:21:39Speaker 00

  I appreciate it.

• 2:21:43Speaker 00

  You got greedy.

• 2:21:46Speaker 00

  Anyway, my boy, thank you so much, dude. Really appreciate it.

• 2:21:48Speaker 02

  Thank you. This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just $15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can't afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're gonna stick with whatever's

• 2:22:03Speaker 00

  in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent, taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. See terms.

• 2:22:19Speaker 06

  PrizePix packs are here. Rip digital packs and get real basketball, footfall and Pokemon cards on PrizePix packs. Available now nationwide. Once you see your pool, you have a choice to sell back instantly for real cash or ship at home. Cash from your sale will immediately be added to your PrizePix balance. It's just another way to run your game. New users, download the PrizePix app today and use code SPOTIFY to get $25 instantly in bonus packs when you buy your first $5 pack. PrizePix, run your game. 18 plus in eligible areas. Terms apply. Collect responsibly.