Protestant Therapy is Grinding Your Teeth | The Reformation (Part 2/4)

The Devil Is In Your Bowels. The Reformation (Part Two) Pre-order Fin's book here: https://linktr.ee/FinTaylorBook Suits by Beggars Run: www.beggarsrun.com The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.  For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark. Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at https://surfshark.com/fvh Chapters: 00:00 - These Are My Prayer Beads 03:21 - Incestmaxxing 09:11 - Back Against The Wall 14:06 - More Poo (Sorry) 18:25 - Scatology 26:00 - Pooey Castle 30:22 - Emos Are Protestant 33:48 - The Communist Aesthetic 37:55 - Fin Fat Taylor 42:51- Hitler’s Bath Water 47:05 - Dream Threesome 51:26 - Protestant Poetry Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  They say history is written by the winners, but it is kept alive by losers. Boring people with sad lives and body odor. National Trust employees are, in a way, their own kind of ruin. Much like this 12th century abbey, their genitals have long since been abandoned and now lie crumbling, to be visited only by the very ugly.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Uh, excuse me?

• 0:21Speaker 00

  But if history is written by the winners, who is history written for? Well, the answer is obviously men. Not you! Go away! Women, of course, have fiction, novels, but that's not for men. Why should I care about some made-up horny Irish people? History is about so much more than looking around a shit building staffed by sexless fatties. Moring! What are you still doing here? History can get the blood pumping. Things like tank battles, amphibious landings, the exploitation of indigenous communities. This is history that gets a man rock hard when we talk about things like slavery, war crimes, or genocide. It's high time we realize that not all history is created equal.

• 1:05Speaker 00

  And that's why I'm delighted to announce that my first book, The History of Mankind in Its Entirety](brackets abridged), an unsupervised PhD, is available now to preorder in hardback or audiobook if you're thick.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Oi, have you got permission to film this?

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 2:05Speaker 00

  Welcome back to Finn vs History. I'm joined by Horatio Gould.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  And today is part two of our deep dive on the Reformation.

• 2:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  Martin Luther, a great man.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  You're loving this. You're a pig in shit.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  I am a pig in shit. And I don't just mean in this episode. I mean generally. Thanks to this man Luther. He has held up a mirror to me and I can see that I'm a pig in shit.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you like what you see?

• 2:29Speaker 00

  It's my own relationship with shit. I don't need some intermediary, some middleman. Some Catholic bureaucracy.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  It's your own reading of what the shit means.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah, I have, I've been given a label, finally, to understand my own brain.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Presbyterian. I'm an extremist and I'm just reading back my own history, really.

• 2:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  But you're, so hang on, if you're mixed Catholic, so you're mixed race, how does that manifest though?

• 2:55Speaker 03

  It's sort of like on the scale, if you're, it's also in the straight gays scale, isn't it?

• 2:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  You know, you drink black coffee. I drink coffee with milk.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  Right, same, same, same.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean? And it's like, so I definitely, I enjoy subtext, I enjoy poetry, I enjoy art, I enjoy visual things.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  But it does get too much sometimes.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  And I go, all right, that's enough.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  So I like a bit of gay stuff. I like gay aesthetics, to be honest. I'm very visually gay.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Yes, you are.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  It's just emotionally, I'm straight as hell.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  If you could.

• 3:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  You would walk down the street in dungaree shorts, wearing a little necktie.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  Going, woo! Yeah, but then the kind of crying at everything, I don't relate to that.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  No.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  So that's the rare combination that is like, I want to be involved and when we're gossiping, it's all really fun.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:40Speaker 03

  But when it gets too emotional, I'm like, well, I need to.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  When the dicks come out and they're putting people's mouths.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, right, I need to go out to my straight friends, to be honest.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  So I drink black coffee, you drink coffee with milk, the Italians are putting ice cream in coffee. It's a new level, okay? It's, they are beyond repair.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Who is working after that? Who's going to work having had a fucking affogato at 10 in the morning? We are, now, we didn't really deal with Martin Luther the man.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Hmm, the man, the myth, the legend?

• 4:07Speaker 00

  The man, the myth, my king, my legend. But he is, we find him now at the Diet of Worms.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess this is your love of German history as well. Martin Luther is a real, there's something intrinsically German about him.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  The kind of intenseness, I guess.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Again, he's the first sort of-

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Is there a humilousness to Martin Luther?

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Sure, of course.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  A serious, yeah.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  But also a-

• 4:33Speaker 03

  Groundedness to him.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  You know, there's no element of fantasy.

• 4:36Speaker 03

  No.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  Or like, hope. There's a realism, there's a coldness, there's a logic, there's a, but actually this.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  I like it that you say these words as if they're positive. That's the tone you're saying them, but they sound negative.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  These are my prayer beads, these are my words.

• 4:52Speaker 03

  Cold, he's boring, you know, it's fantastic.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  He's not actually-

• 4:56Speaker 03

  It's difficult to be around, unimaginative.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  He's not actually boring. We're gonna get into boring next episode.

• 5:01Speaker 03

  It's true.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  You think Luther's boring?

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Hold my non-alcoholic beer. I give you John Calvin, but anyway. Now, we're in the Diet of Worms, 1521, in the First Reich, the Holy Roman Empire, and to recap, Martin Luther has built on the work of-

• 5:18Speaker 03

  He's been running his mouth.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  He has been running his mouth, he's gone viral.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. He's been running his printing press.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  He's running his printing press.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  Because this is not, this is not him typing, right?

• 5:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  You have to build-

• 5:29Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  I think you build it.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  It's like a piano, isn't it? You push buttons and they- How does a printing press work?

• 5:35Speaker 03

  You build the-

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Type.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  The type, and then you press it all at once.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  It's like a big typewriter, but it's like a piano, and someone pulls a lever and a letter.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 5:45Speaker 00

  Or do you build the whole-

• 5:46Speaker 03

  You build the whole thing.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  Fuck, so you build the book, and then you press the book?

• 5:51Speaker 03

  I guess you can do that loads.

• 5:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's-

• 5:53Speaker 03

  Once you've done it, but that first bit would take ages.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  When did they work out that a typewriter, you could actually-

• 5:59Speaker 03

  When was the typewriter invented?

• 6:03Speaker 00

  Because I feel like typewriters are quite late, given how small a step it is in logic,

• 6:09Speaker 00

  to go from printing press to typewriter. 1868.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is late.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Very late, because really-

• 6:15Speaker 03

  I would have made that jump, I reckon.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Instantly. Instantly, I'd gone, well, hang on, we can make this more efficient.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  I probably would have come up with a MacBook.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're right, actually. I would have just come up with an iPhone. I've just come up with ChatGPT in 1600s and I would have been like done, yeah. Yeah, so that is interesting that they hadn't quite worked. They had, they'd made the whole book. The whole book or is it just pages?

• 6:38Speaker 03

  It's pages at a time.

• 6:39Speaker 00

  But then they must have, they must have like 200 plates.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  I think they have every letter, this is what I'm imagining, they have every letter in the alphabet and they build each, two pages at a time because it's a two-page spread.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  And then if you're making a thousand copies, you just do a thousand of those. Next two pages, thousand of those, next do da da da da da. So it still takes fucking ages.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  Ah, they are, it is, it's not actually that good.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  Is it?

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, but what was the other option?

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Tight writer.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  No, no, before this.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  But again, you know.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  What's this replacing? Because before this.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  This is replacing gossip. This is replacing word of mouth.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, but there's people writing the whole, imagine if you wanted to make a copy of a book, you had to write it.

• 7:19Speaker 00

  Oh god, no, no.

• 7:21Speaker 03

  To write it out.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  But then no one's got anything to do also.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Uh, anyway, so the printing presses meant Luther's ideas of spread and he has been summoned to the diet of Worms by Charles the Fifth. The Holy Roman Emperor. Now we should deal with Charles the Fifth. Get a photo of him up because he looks insane. Charles the Fifth is.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  Oh, is this the guy with the Chad jawline?

• 7:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's my guy. So Charles the Fifth is a Habsburg and oh.

• 7:49Speaker 03

  He's got that fucking Habsburg jaw, which is now coming into fashion again, the Habsburg jaw. Or the clivicular, right? It's, it's like jaw maxing.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that's, that's not, no, no, no, no, surely that's not. You're saying this is the first, if you're watching, we're looking at a photo.

• 8:04Speaker 03

  In a way it's a lux maxer.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  Charles the Fifth.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  I guess he's incest maxing.

• 8:07Speaker 00

  He is incest maxing, yeah.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  But it means that he's jaw mugging everyone in Europe.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  I'd say he's also downs mugging people.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  He looks like, I mean, he looks like Richard the Third if he had Down's syndrome.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  I mean, he's an astonishing looking guy, but he's also one of the most famous people in European history that we don't really.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Yes, because he was also, was he also Charles the Fifth of Spain?

• 8:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  So he owned most of Europe and had the Pope in his pocket.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  And fucking Mexico, the Aztecs, he's the emperor.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  Oh, of course.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  When they discovered, when do they discover, when's that all kick off? It's around this time, isn't it? The Aztec nonsense, is that 1530s? The exact time of just before the die of Worms, Cortez meets Moctezuma.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  That is weird, isn't it?

• 8:54Speaker 00

  So Charles the Fifth, and this is important, he's fucking busy.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  He's a busy guy. He's also got the biggest jaw.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  Well, maybe that's from stress. I got so stressed during my debut at Edinburgh that my jaw has a click that has never gone.

• 9:09Speaker 00

  I had that and it does go.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  Does it?

• 9:11Speaker 00

  It does go.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  Did you get, was it from Edinburgh?

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I think so. I had a period where I had, yeah, I had, no, it wasn't actually. This is when I woke up, this was after I broke up with my girlfriend. I was dumped and I.

• 9:25Speaker 03

  Dear reader, he was dumped.

• 9:26Speaker 00

  Dear reader, I was dumped. And I basically, I was grinding my teeth so much at night that at one point, now this is very, very Presbyterian. This is the kind of extreme as I am. Hustle grind set at night, asleep, grinding my teeth so much with, I suppose, unprocessed stress or I guess love grief, whatever you want to call it. Charlie can write some kind of poem, I don't know. Anyway, I was grinding my teeth at night and then basically I heard this pop and I got a fucking black eye, I woke up with a black eye.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  Oh my God. That's might be the most Protestant way to deal with a heartbreak.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  When you're like love grief, I don't know what the fuck you call it.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  No, I'm fine.

• 10:06Speaker 00

  And so I thought, I woke up, I genuinely thought I punched myself in the face during my sleep. And that's what I told people. I went and did old rope the next night and they're like, what? And I went, I think I punched myself in the face in my sleep. They were like, really? I went, yeah, I don't know. And then a doctor, I basically had like a kind of locked jaw and I had a click. And he was like, no, that'll be, and then a dentist actually said, no, your teeth have, you've been grinding your teeth, haven't you? That'll be what that is.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  Right, so maybe it is a Protestant clicking jaw that just happens from.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I basically burst my eye socket when grinding my teeth. But, you know, I didn't need therapy.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's fine.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  It's fine, you know, you can just grind your teeth and.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  You can just grind your teeth.

• 10:47Speaker 00

  You can just grind your teeth. Like, that is always an option. You know, there is better.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Pull yourself up by your molars.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  There's better help. There's also worse help. I'm a representative of worse help. Where you just grind your teeth, you get a black eye and then, you know, time passes and you're fine. Anyway.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 11:33Speaker 04

  He built the first planet-wide media empire.

• 11:35Speaker 05

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• 11:40Speaker 04

  He ruined his own family in his obsessive quest for money, power and legacy.

• 11:45Speaker 05

  This is the story of Rupert Murdoch, the real-life succession.

• 11:49Speaker 04

  Join me, Dorian Linsky.

• 11:50Speaker 05

  And me, Ian Dunst, for season 10 of Origin Story, the show that uses the past to explain the present.

• 11:57Speaker 04

  That's Origin Story, kicking off with a two-part special on Rupert Murdoch on all podcast platforms now.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  I don't, yeah, he is stressed, but he also, he looks absolutely clapped.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  And this is what is called the Hapsburg jaw.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  Which is really, is that really coming back in?

• 12:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  No, it can't be.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  Just the jawline, the, the kind of.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's jawline, but that, that is, that's mad.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  Anyway, so he's the king of Spain and he's the Holy Roman Emperor. And he's sort of a huge figure in European history. We don't really know much about him. Anyway. He is elected, oh, in 1519.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  And he's elected partly by Frederick the Wise, Luther's sponsor at the University of Wittenberg. So he calls this diet at Worms and he's like, right. It's all kicking off in the Holy Roman Emperor, a lot of empire, a lot of the princes in the regions are like, oh, this would be great if this Luther guy was right, because that would mean we could have more power over our regions. So they're kind of latching on to it as a political cause.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  So he's sort of.

• 13:02Speaker 03

  Like Henry VIII eventually did, it's all.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Very similar, yeah. So, and I should say, actually, we're going to deal with the English Reformation when we do Henry VIII, which is coming up this summer.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, separate thing.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  It's a separate thing. So anyway, so at Worms, Luther's like, I don't want to go.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Because you're blatantly going to do what he did to Goose.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  And.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  I'm going to go goose.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  And so 1520 Luther eventually goes, okay, yeah, I will, I will go to the diet. And I think he, doesn't he go there Christ-like? Doesn't he sort of walk there with like barefoot with followers? And he's kind of mimicking Christ.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Does he?

• 13:35Speaker 00

  He's very consciously.

• 13:36Speaker 03

  He's like a salt walk.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Sort of like a salt walk, but he's consciously mimicking Christ on that, whatever march Christ does. So he gets guaranteed safe passage and then at the diet Luther gets, they basically like, did you write this?

• 13:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  And he goes, yeah.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:53Speaker 00

  And then, and then they say.

• 13:54Speaker 03

  What of it?

• 13:55Speaker 00

  Does he? Yeah. And what?

• 13:56Speaker 03

  And what?

• 13:56Speaker 00

  And what, mate? But they say, do you stand by your arguments? And then he says.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Give me a sec.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  You give him a minute? I just need to go to the toilet. And then he takes a day, a day of prayer.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Awesome way to like be asked a question and be like, can I just, can I have a couple of days?

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Uh, give me a day also, I'll get back to you. So he says he's going to take a day of prayer before.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Wait, you say it's like the viral Russell Brand moment?

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. Russling. What? You think he's just there just going through? I mean, that is absolutely extraordinary television. Have you watched the whole thing?

• 14:30Speaker 03

  You've got to give Pierce his flowers. I mean, that's an unbelievable moment there.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  It is. Morgan's gone in there.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  And also Morgan having the, the kind of instincts to let that sit. The man who interrupts people more than anyone in TV, knowing this is the.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  To not interrupt. Oh, it's extraordinary.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  It's incredible.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Hilarious that he interrupts any woman ever. And then a serial rapist, he just, no, give him, here's the floor, please.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  Don't interrupt, don't interrupt a man while he's looking for a Bible verse. Don't interrupt a man.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Please silence.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  What's that, a woman complaining? Oh, excuse me. No, I've got an opinion today. Yeah, but that was, that, yeah, the Brand Morgan interview, if you've not seen it, is, the whole thing's extraordinary.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  I've watched the whole thing.

• 15:09Speaker 00

  Oh, it's joyous. He's throwing every word he knows out there. All of them.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  Back against the wall.

• 15:16Speaker 00

  Back against the wall. Fucking shit out.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  Just fucking thesaurus everyone.

• 15:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's amazing. Anyway, so Luther takes a day of prayer before answering the second question, which is, do you stand by all this stuff?

• 15:31Speaker 00

  And then he comes back the next day, and I think he's like, literally, there's a council of whatever bishops or, I don't know. They're all like the Star Wars people.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  They're in the cloaks.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  Right, right, yeah, yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  And Emperor the Fifth, Emperor Charles V is there, and he says, unless I'm convinced by the testimony of the scriptures, I am bound by the scriptures I've quoted and my conscience is captive to the word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. So he's basically, he's basically the first person to like, bring up conscience, the idea of a conscience?

• 16:07Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:09Speaker 00

  Because there's an argument that Luther, Luther starts individualism.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  Yes, very much so.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  So he's the first person who goes to the church and says-

• 16:16Speaker 03

  And also having morality be based on an internal-

• 16:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  Idea as opposed to being told to you by a church.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's the first person who ever said, I'm going to speak my truth.

• 16:29Speaker 03

  My truth, my lived experience. That's very-

• 16:32Speaker 00

  It's the birth of identity politics.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Interesting. The idea of a bound conscience, the notion that an individual's conscience informed by scripture is superior to the authority of the church council.

• 16:39Speaker 00

  He didn't, so he didn't invent the concept of conscience, but he basically elevates it to be on a par with anything the Catholic Church does.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  Which is very radical.

• 16:47Speaker 00

  Hugely radical. Yeah, he says at this day of verms, here I stand, I can do no other. This, this is like, this shatters, shatters the Catholic worldview.

• 16:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  So he's basically stood up to the Holy Roman Emperor. So then Luther kind of escapes, sort of. Because Charles V, maybe, or maybe-

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Seize him. Was it like that?

• 17:09Speaker 00

  Like Lord Farquhar. Yeah. Seize him.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  God's seize him.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Nah.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  But I think actually the diet ends and then they all go home and then later Charles V releases the Edict of Worms, which declares that Luther's an outlaw who needs to be arrested.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  Because I think they take time to try and process what he said.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, they must do. Yeah. They go home and bloody hell.

• 17:32Speaker 03

  They should have killed him.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  They should have.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  Crazy they didn't.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  But they say he's an outlaw, he needs to be arrested, charged with heresy, his works are banned, it is a crime for anyone to help him and it is legal for anyone to kill him.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Which is an interesting way of doing it because have they put a hit out on him or they just said, if you kill him, you're fine?

• 17:50Speaker 00

  But if you give him safe passage, you're a criminal.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Be interesting to do that just it's because no one does that nowadays that it's legal for anyone to kill someone. Because this is saying, it's not like legal for law enforcement to kill Luther. Like any old fucking farmer.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  Well, it's yeah, it's citizen's arrest.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  It's that guy who tried to-

• 18:08Speaker 03

  It would be kind of fun if there was people like that.

• 18:09Speaker 00

  Well, there are people like that. They tried to citizen's arrest Tony Blair every day. There's the guy-

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's not legal to kill him.

• 18:14Speaker 00

  No, that is definitely-

• 18:15Speaker 03

  If they made it so it was like, if you fancied killing someone, you had a complete, it was like The Purge but for one person.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  It's just Kirstama.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  I don't know, whoever.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  Kirstama says it's legal to kill-

• 18:27Speaker 03

  To kill what, like one person?

• 18:28Speaker 00

  One person.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 00

  Or whoever. Andy Bladen.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  Get out of your system.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. So in order to protect him, his sponsor Frederick III gets him kidnapped by men dressed as bandits and so Luther gets taken to Vartberg Castle in Islaach.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  So Friedrich keeps him alive and protects him because Friedrich wants the devolution of power from the Pope.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  But also he's a star academic and he doesn't want the university to be like disgraced.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 18:57Speaker 00

  So, yeah.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  Because it is surprising that the most powerful forces in Europe don't kill Luther.

• 19:01Speaker 00

  But this is also, I think at this time maybe Spain are at war with the French-

• 19:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 00

  Or something and there's the Aztec stuff going on.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a lot going on.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  I mean, he's stressed, you know, he's waking up with a black eye, he's grinding his jaw so much. So Charles the Fifth can't really deal with it. And also, he doesn't have any direct control over the Holy Roman Empire. This is why this didn't happen in Czechoslovakia with who's?

• 19:27Speaker 03

  Because.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  Because there wasn't, they didn't have that like local power.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  In Saxony.

• 19:32Speaker 00

  In Saxony. So Martin Luther goes into hiding at a castle, Castle of Artburg, Fatburg, Fatburg Castle. And this is where, look, we're doing our best to stay off poo.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is what I was, I was reading the plan. I was like, in general, we've had meetings where we're like, look, it's too easy to talk about shit. There's obviously been moments where we've had to talk about it for a while, but in general, we need to aim higher as a podcast. We cannot keep being lost in the realms of shit. But sadly, the historic relevance of shit, we found ourselves once again having to do probably another 25 minutes on shit.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  We are a Protestant podcast. Okay, we are all caked in shit and it's fine. Okay.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  So just so you know, we are trying to move away from shit.

• 20:14Speaker 00

  We can't just talk.

• 20:15Speaker 03

  For this episode, we do have to talk about shit a lot.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  We can't just talk to a priest about pooing ourselves and then suddenly we're free from shitting.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  This is Luther's great thing. We're all in the gutter. I have a poo. If you like.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  Is that Martin Luther King saying he needs to go to the toilet? Yes.

• 20:38Speaker 00

  Anyway, so he goes into hiding and this is where he kind of goes mad. He grows a beard. And bear in mind, he has been, we, he has been, it's like.

• 20:48Speaker 03

  He's an intense guy.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  He's an intense guy. He's obsessed with his own bowel movements.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  Yes, very much like Gandhi, very, very much.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  Very, very similar to Gandhi. He's also, it seems like any, his go to analogy when he doesn't like something is to call it like shit. So he basically, he's calling the Catholic Church like, oh, well, your guys are all really pooey.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  Poopy pants, yeah.

• 21:08Speaker 00

  You're, oh, you mean the, the poop, the pope? He's like, Beethoven's brother again, like, the great poop in Rome.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  So he's quoted as saying that he was in the sewer when he realised that spiritual salvation was achieved through faith rather than deeds and actions. He was constantly constipated. Now, while he's in exile, he is basically on the toilet the whole time.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  Which it must shape, a lot of his work, shapes the Reformation.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Is his constipation. It's hard to know how much is actual philosophical conscience and how much is the second brain, as we know now.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  You're right, it is the gut.

• 21:45Speaker 03

  Which brain was he writing with? The first or second brain? I don't know. I feel the kind of misunderstanding of kind of, you need ferments, you need kefir and stuff like that. This is probably, the frustration is where a lot of this writing was coming from.

• 21:58Speaker 00

  But I don't, so hang on, just talk me through the extrapolation of Protestant theology from being constipated.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  Well, if you look at the fury and anger of his writings, because he's holdaway, hiding in a basement.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  All he's got is a printing press and he's just sending out mad things. The frustration of being constipated, not seeing anyone, that colours the type of writing he's doing and the intensity of the writing.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  And that means that the flame of the Reformation spreads a lot further because of how intense and heavy the writing is.

• 22:28Speaker 00

  I suppose it's keeping things, it's keeping things inside, isn't it? Much like me just grinding my drawers and my face explodes.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  I just, yeah, don't let it out.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Bottle it up.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  But he's writing from the toilet.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  Yes, he is writing from the toilet. Yeah. So he invents individualism.

• 22:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, much like Gandhi, he's doing test cricket sessions on the toilet.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  And he is saying revolutionary thought that comes to him. He has divine inspiration on the toilet.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. He's obsessed with poo.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  So, you know, in, he does go mad when he's in the castle. Now, while he's doing this, he's translating the Bible from the original Greek into German.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  I'm just saying, maybe if he wasn't constipated, he might have forgiven the Catholic Church or.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, he might have gone out for.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  It's actually all right. I actually see the shit.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. That would be mad.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I thought it was because, I thought it was the god and devil trying, because he also thinks, keeps having visions of the devil and he keeps thinking, because it's such a superstitious age, he's feeling all these things, he sees a black dog, he thinks that's the devil, he chucks it out the fucking window.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  He does chuck a dog out the window. He defenestrates a dog.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  You know, and I think he probably just interprets this gut feeling, this must be the devil trying to, but if he was, if he had cleared out his bowels, he might have been like, oh, that's brilliant.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  So what, is it, so it'd be like that being called the diet of worms in your poo?

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. He'd be like, oh, I don't know why I was so angry.

• 23:44Speaker 00

  Sorry guys, sorry. No, I just really needed a poo.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  You're not you when you need to shit.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly. So he's in the castle, he thinks he sees the devil everywhere, the devil's in his bowels, he does, as we said, chuck a dog out a window.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  But he had no choice.

• 23:58Speaker 00

  No, he was, he was backed into a corner.

• 23:59Speaker 06

  Is that the new phrase for pooing?

• 24:01Speaker 03

  I don't know if it's a euphemism, I think he actually chucked a dog out.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  He does actually chuck a dog out a window.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  But I think that's symbolic of his frustration that he can't chuck all his poo out his arse.

• 24:09Speaker 00

  Oh, you think it's a cipher?

• 24:10Speaker 03

  I think it's a Freudian thing where he, the idea, he sees it as representing the shit and he throws out the window.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  Right, yeah.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  That's what he wants. He wants to defenestrate his shit out his arse.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Because this is pre, what's the opposite of the modem? Laxative. It's pre-laxative. Should we place, we should place this, shouldn't we?

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:27Speaker 00

  The diet of worms is in 1521.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, keep it German.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  It's, so this is before we Basbald Dresden.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 24:38Speaker 03

  Which is in Saxony.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  Yes, it is. You're right. Yep. Before Dresden got taken to the cleaners.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  And it's after Caesar holocausted the Saxons in Saxony.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  Did he?

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:55Speaker 00

  You're saying there's a, there's a hol-

• 24:56Speaker 03

  There is another Holocaust, the Celtic Holocaust.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  How many are we talking?

• 25:00Speaker 03

  It's pretty big. One million.

• 25:01Speaker 00

  I don't know about that.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  A million is such a big number. So 60 B.C.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  That's a lot of people. I don't know about that. I don't know. Anyway, okay, so we're in 1521, betwixt the Holocausts.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  Lovely. That's the name of my new book.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Between the Holocaust and Saxony, yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 00

  Between the Holocausts. So he's throwing a dog out a window. He's, he's, he's writing constantly. He's translating the Bible into German.

• 25:27Speaker 03

  Scatology?

• 25:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  What does that actually mean?

• 25:30Speaker 00

  That's poo.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 25:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  But I was thinking.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  No, that's scatting.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  Oh, right, right.

• 25:36Speaker 00

  Funny, funny enough, scatology is obsession with poo.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  Are there any courses in scatology?

• 25:43Speaker 00

  Well, Charlie's a scatologist. He's a professional scatologist. Or a coprologist. Now, coprology is filth. Is that, is that fucking poo? What's, what's fucking poo?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  Fucking poo is a Charlie's name's American name.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  Of course it is, yeah. No, but you can also, what's funny is that scat, scatology is obsession with poo, but eschatology is obsession with the end times, the religious end times.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  They're quite close.

• 26:12Speaker 00

  They are quite close, so, yeah. So if you're an eschatologist, you're talking about the apocalypse. And if you're a scatologist, you're talking about the poo-calypse. Yes?

• 26:20Speaker 06

  What if you're a scat-eschatologist?

• 26:22Speaker 00

  You're a scat, you're a, right.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  You believe in the end times.

• 26:27Speaker 06

  We'll drown in poo.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  Yes, you're right. You believe that when you go to the toilet and poo, the world will end.

• 26:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Let's, let's save our poo talk for the amount of quotes we've got coming up as well. We've got a lot coming up.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  But just, just to be very clear, because we need to make sure that everyone's on our side. Coprophilia is the psychological term for a sexual fetish involving feces. Coprophagia is the specific act of consuming feces.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  Copro. So you're a coprophagist?

• 26:53Speaker 00

  Copro. Co-pro.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Co-pro.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  Co-production. Scatophilia refers to sexual pleasure derived from feces. Often used in the phrase scat-play.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  Scat-play.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  Scat play does just sound, it sounds too jazzy for what you're doing.

• 27:10Speaker 00

  Well, it is pretty jazzy. It's pretty jazzy. There's no structure to it. But again, that is all Catholic stuff, personally. We are in the missionary only world. Okay? Doggy is the devil.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  Okay? Reverse cowgirl is the devil. It's just about missionary.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. Get it done.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  Get it done.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  And do it with a, don't, don't, do it like, do it like you're doing your taxes. Be as bold.

• 27:37Speaker 00

  Yeah. Also, the female orgasm is Catholic.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. Okay. If we're being Calvinist about this, it's just for procreation. So he's a grumpy old poo guy, stuck in a castle, chucking dogs out the window. And he also, now, does he marry when he's in the castle? Charlie.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Charlie.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  Charlie. Tell the listeners what you just put on the screen. Tell the listeners what you just put on the screen.

• 28:05Speaker 06

  A man called Simon packs shit into condoms and fucks and sucks them. And that's, I mean, I don't think, we can't show that. We can't show that.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  Charlie. Absolutely disgusting, Charlie.

• 28:20Speaker 06

  That is awful. I think he's in a car as well. Who's letting him in the car?

• 28:23Speaker 03

  We've got actual historical shit to deal with. Let's not bring up pictures of shit on Reddit. We, we've got enough.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  Sorry, that's, that's one guy through shits, isn't it? That's one guy through cups of shit.

• 28:33Speaker 06

  Come on.

• 28:34Speaker 00

  Charlie, Charlie.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  Charlie, Charlie, get off. Get off.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  Get rid of it. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. So Martin Luther is in the car. Sorry, I'm gonna be sick. Martin Luther marries Katharina von Bora. Bora. So he's a former monk and she's a former nun. Okay? Let, let, let the dogs see the rabbit. Let's have a look at Catherine von Bora. Let's have a look at her.

• 29:00Speaker 03

  Let's see how von boring she is.

• 29:01Speaker 00

  This is the original Ava, Ava Brown. Let's have a look at her.

• 29:04Speaker 03

  You were at the von Bora last night.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Oh. I don't hate it.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  It's not too bad. She's got a devilish knowing look.

• 29:11Speaker 00

  Oh lovely. Actually, for the age, I think, I think she's a bit of a smoke show.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  So while he's in there, while he's hiding, obviously the Pope is supposedly trying to find him. Quote, Luther says, "Almost every night when I wake up, the devil is there and wants to dispute with me. I've come to this conclusion, when the argument that the Christian is without the law and above the law doesn't help, I instantly chase him away with a fart." He calls the Pope's teachings "farts out of his stinking belly."

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Basically, if he ever has an argument in his head about Catholicism, he farts it away.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  I think he means he's constipated, the devil is constipated him.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:50Speaker 00

  And so him farting is like-

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Is an act of defiance.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  Against the devil.

• 29:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  The elimination is so hard that I'm forced to press with all my strength, even to the point of perspiration.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  He's sweating on the toilet trying to do a poo. "If it was mixed with blood, then there was a relief and almost a pleasure in pooing. So I was often inclined to defecate, and if it was touched with the finger, it itched pleasurably." He's talking about-

• 30:13Speaker 03

  And the blood flowed, but it's also like, Martin, why are you telling us this?

• 30:17Speaker 00

  He's talking about scratching his piles.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, but Martin, why are you right, is he printing pressing this?

• 30:23Speaker 00

  I think he is.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  Is this been put- Is this been put into the printing press?

• 30:27Speaker 00

  And the Protestant Reformers are like, I don't-

• 30:29Speaker 03

  It's his diary.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  Martin, I don't, yeah, so I suppose-

• 30:32Speaker 03

  I guess we shouldn't be reading Martin's diary.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  No, we shouldn't be reading his diary.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  "Dear devil, I have shat in my pants and breeches. Hang them on your neck and wipe your mouth with them."

• 30:41Speaker 00

  Is this what Anne Frank's diary is about? I've not read that one. Is she talking about this? Anyway, yeah, he's going mad.

• 30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  Right, pooing in a castle. He's married Catherine von Bora, and his friends say that he's just irritable and he's getting gout a lot.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  I mean, listen, a 16th century German diet.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 00

  Is not one that would-

• 31:02Speaker 03

  It's dodgy. I mean, we were talking about loose stalls on the Gandhi episode. This is some of the firmest stalls you can get.

• 31:08Speaker 00

  While he's in there.

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• 32:03Speaker 04

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• 32:11Speaker 00

  Uh, the reformation, he's kind of like set, he's set something in train.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  So, uh, I now I can't remember the names, but there are these guys that basically start uh, a kind of their own like violent reformation.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  In and around Wittenberg. Uh, and this leads to the German peasant war of 1525, um, where these movements are inspired by Luther and they're actually much more radical than Luther.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  In what sense?

• 32:39Speaker 00

  They start toppling statues.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  This is the first statue topless.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  Topless, statue topless.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:45Speaker 00

  They're like tearing out of churches, they're tearing down idols, they're, uh, they're, they're more kind of towards Calvin than Luther. Luther actually isn't that boring.

• 32:56Speaker 03

  No.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  He still believes in bread and wine.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  He just doesn't like the political organisation of the church.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  He just likes the match of boringness.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 03

  He's simply the, yeah. But what I find about the Reformation is it's not like, often with these revolutionaries, they have like a figure who's the figurehead who's the revolutionary and there's a cult of personality. He just gets it going and then everyone's doing their own thing and it breaks into a million different pieces.

• 33:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 03

  It doesn't really have like a focal point in the same way.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  Well, this is Judean people's front, isn't it? Because suddenly, once he ultimately breaks the monopoly the church has on like authority.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Everyone starts coming out of the woodwork. So these guys in Wittenberg, the Zwickau prophets, they preach ideas like adult baptism and the equality of all men.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Right. So this is communist filth. This is goo goo.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  Adult diapers sort of stuff.

• 33:46Speaker 00

  Diapers, exactly. And so the Wittenberg Town Council asked Luther to return in order to calm the revolts.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  So adult baptism, which we'll get on to a lot when we talk about the Amish, which is, that's quite interesting because that's basically saying that you need to be an adult so you can consent to your own baptism.

• 34:03Speaker 00

  Like Russell Brand. He was baptized as an adult.

• 34:07Speaker 03

  Right, yeah. But then he doesn't.

• 34:09Speaker 00

  Because ironically, he needed to consent to the baptism. Yeah. So this is the idea that you should know willingly, go willingly into what you're doing. So Wittenberg, Luther returns to Wittenberg in secret in March 1522. And he basically, he tries to banish the Zwickau prophets and work with the authorities to restore order.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  That's a good band name.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  Zwickau, Zwickau. So, but the problem is, is that all the new, more radical Protestants, they think Luther's going to lead them. Not, why is Ian Watkins on the screen?

• 34:44Speaker 06

  The prophets, the lost prophets.

• 34:45Speaker 00

  Lost prophets.

• 34:47Speaker 06

  That's why.

• 34:48Speaker 00

  Lost Protestants.

• 34:48Speaker 06

  He got killed the other day, didn't he?

• 34:51Speaker 00

  He got killed in October.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  A year ago, yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  Minute silence.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Mm hmm. It's for Ian.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Friend of the pod.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  Right. So not the Zwickau, sorry, yes, the Zwickau prophets, not the lost prophets.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 35:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. Sorry. I can see, I can see what happened there. Yeah. Anyway, Luther banishes the Zwickau prophets who were radical.

• 35:16Speaker 00

  But I suppose, yeah, not, not as radical as some of Ian Watkins' ideas.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  I mean, this is where it's ended up, you know.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  Go on, unpack that one. Go on, take us, take us from the 95 thesis to Ian Watkins. No, no, I'd like to see the working.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  It's your own truth, isn't it?

• 35:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, is that how?

• 35:33Speaker 03

  It's your own relationship, you know.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  He was framing it? Is that how he was framing it?

• 35:37Speaker 03

  I don't know. Or was he like, yeah?

• 35:39Speaker 00

  I think it was more like that.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  Fuck you, man.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Which is?

• 35:44Speaker 00

  Which is?

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Very Protestant.

• 35:45Speaker 00

  It is. No, hang on, hang on.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  I'll explain.

• 35:47Speaker 00

  Go on.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  I wanted to get on to this actually, but I might as well talk about it now. But being an emo is Protestant. The, this is the long road to fuck you mum.

• 35:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, to be fair, Ian Watkins wasn't saying fuck you mum.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  He was saying, yes, but he, he had his own interpretation on the, the text.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  Right, I see, okay.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  He read between the lines.

• 36:05Speaker 00

  I think he misunderstood crucially. I think he is a violently misunderstood man.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  But no culture treats their parents with more anger than a Protestant culture. Everywhere around the world, be it Africa, China, South America, the Mediterranean.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  You're taught to respect your parents and to not question that. But in Protestant countries, you're taught to say fuck you mum.

• 36:28Speaker 00

  Fuck you mum.

• 36:31Speaker 03

  That all the kind of, where are you? That is Protestant angst.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  You know, Hamlet is a very Protestant character in many ways.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  Yes, you're right.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  You're dealing with your own consciousness and like your own relationship with these things. That, that's not a Catholic thing. It's basically saying all my, I fucking hate my family. Ugh.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  You know.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can't do that in.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  It doesn't really work in the cultures. It's about getting around the table together as, as one collective unit. But here it's like, no one understands me.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're in the bedroom, like, yeah, they're right.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  They don't get me.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  Self-harmous Protestant, I suppose as well.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  Very much so.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're right. Um, I still don't really like the idea that, um, me and Watkins are cut from the same cloth.

• 37:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you know.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  Where, where was Watkins?

• 37:13Speaker 03

  Different sides of the same cloth.

• 37:14Speaker 00

  He's born in Wales. Okay, fine. Fine. He's Welsh.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  So, um, anyway, uh, let's get back to the German peasant war.

• 37:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  Rather than the war that Watkins had with his own desires. Sorry?

• 37:27Speaker 06

  You got very cunty mugshot.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  I think that's the least of his crimes.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think, um, yeah.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Can we get him off, please?

• 37:33Speaker 00

  Come on, Charlie, come on. Um, don't know what's worse, just the amount of Watkins you've had on the screen or a man eating three poodles in the condom.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  Anyway, so now he's trying to keep the peace, but this is what's interesting is that this is essentially a, you know, Luther's sort of a moderate conservative. So it's a social revolution by a moderate conservative.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Right, so he's basically saying he's trying to keep the peace.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  And yet he's let loose, this sort of people who want to go much further.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  The revolts basically kick off, and this is the largest popular uprising in Europe before the French Revolution.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  Really?

• 38:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, so there are these guys called Thomas Munster.

• 38:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, all the names are brilliant.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  Brilliant, and Andreas Karlstadt, and he, now Luther says these guys is the work of the devil, and he comes out.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Even though they're Protestant?

• 38:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, but they're too far, they've gone too far, this is, you know.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  But this is woke Twitter culture, right?

• 38:32Speaker 00

  Yes, it is, yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Easy itself, they're not real, they don't fit that exact thing.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  Labour, the Greens, yeah, exactly, yeah. So Luther comes out against the uprisings, and many of the rebels then leave the movement, but then there's these massive battles between the kind of authorities, the Holy Roman princes, and these rebels led by Munster and Karlstadt, and there's the Battle of Frankenhausen in May 1525, which I think is the inspiration for the biggest painting in the world. Is that right, the biggest painting ever?

• 39:07Speaker 03

  He's gone for it.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  I've gone for it.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  He's hung himself out to dry, he's left his belly open.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  Oh, here we go, no, it's the Peasant's War panorama, the largest oil painting in the world, it depicts the 1525 Battle of Frankenhausen with over 3,000 figures, and it's an East German painting. It's an East German painting because East Germany during the GDR, they try and claim Munster and Karlstadt as proto-communists.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Yes, well, there is a link, I do feel, between Luther and Marx and a lot of this, these ideas, the purity, if you think about the communist aesthetic.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  It does, there's something quite Protestant.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  There is something, yeah, there is.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  Purity, stripping back luxuries, like there's a huge, the fact that they're both German.

• 39:53Speaker 00

  Brutalism, yeah, yeah, definitely. So Luther comes out against the uprisings, and they get defeated, and so then, after the uprising, Luther, so peace returns, that's when he marries Bora.

• 40:10Speaker 00

  And he starts a new church known as the Lutheran Church. So.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  And the Lutheran Church, it takes off in Sweden. Like, where's the Lutheran Church today?

• 40:19Speaker 00

  Sweden. Germany and Scandinavia.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. Because we don't really seem to have Lutheran stuff here. You don't hear that said.

• 40:24Speaker 00

  We're Calvinist and we'll get into what that is next episode, but Lutheran is this. So part of the reason like Scandinavia is so kind of always on a level. Do you know what I mean?

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Temper.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, temper.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  They're also, they're more happy with a sense, they have a more sense of communalism than the rabid individualists of Britain and America.

• 40:48Speaker 03

  True. But, so I've got a Swedish friend and he said that the Swedish mindset is different. If you look at any society, there's like, you kind of can have two or three things, which is the sense of you're all together as one state, you're all together as one family and the individual.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  And I think in like Italy, it's not as much about the state, it's about the family. But basically in Sweden, it's about the individual and the state. You're collective as a state, but not as a family.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  So that's where they're kind of different is they're, they have, most of them live alone. It's, they don't have like a big family sense, but they are collective as a state.

• 41:21Speaker 00

  Here, we're fuck the government, fuck the family, fuck you mum.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Fuck you, Kirstama.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Fuck you mum, fuck you Kirstama, fuck you Sadiq. Like, that's, that's us, right?

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 00

  And America's even more so.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  So, yeah, so Scandinavia, like social democracy in Scandinavia, that's why I always find it funny when people are like, oh, why can't Americans, like, why can't we just be like Scandinavians?

• 41:43Speaker 03

  The Nordic model.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, you are different breeds of humans.

• 41:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  You think differently.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  Like, you're just two different types.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  It's never gonna happen.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  It's never gonna happen.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  No.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  So, and now Luther has set and trained the Reformation and we're going to carry on the Reformation story next episode. But what happens to Luther is that he, I mean, much like Gandhi, there's sort of a stop clock element to him in that he had this initial zealous righteous anger that was very captivating and he was sort of this Peterson-esque firebrand. But then he keeps writing when it's similar to like, if he died, then maybe he'd be revered like Bill Hicks.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  Eminem, if he died after his third, maybe fourth album, greatest rapper of all time, he lived to do maybe five more kind of quite mediocre albums and he's sort of diminishing his own a bit.

• 42:29Speaker 00

  If Bill Hicks hadn't died, he would just be Joe Rogan.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  And yet he's revered now.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, George Carlin's last five specials are pretty poor.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  The back end was.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, but there's still some great stuff in there.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  Anyway, so now this is all this is happening, by the way, in the context of the Turks being very close to Christendom. We didn't should have said that last episode, but part of the reason for Luther's success is that it feels like the end times because the church is so corrupt and the Muslim, the Ottoman Turks are like encroaching on.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  Constantinople, was that fourteen?

• 43:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, Constantinople have fell.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  Fourteen something.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  So now he believes that the Ottoman Turks had been sent by God to punish Christians.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  To bring on an apocalypse. And after reading a Latin translation of the Quran, Luther publishes several works on what he calls Mohammedanism.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  Well, that sounds like Britain First talking about what's happened to London.

• 43:31Speaker 00

  Sadiqistan's Mohammedanism.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  He said Islam is a tool of the devil, not my words.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  But which should be left mainly alone.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  And he was against the ban on the Quran to allow it to be scrutinized. That is interesting. What did he think about?

• 43:47Speaker 03

  He's quite a moderate man in some ways.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  What did he think about the burka? What did he, what did Luther?

• 43:51Speaker 03

  He says leave it so he can scrutinize it.

• 43:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  You should be allowed to make fun of it, but you should not ban it. That's what he probably thought.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  What did Luther think about the burkini?

• 44:00Speaker 03

  I think the burkini would be so many steps that would blow his, he might actually finally pass a bowel movement.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  If he sees a woman in a burkini. I quite like the burkini for men.

• 44:11Speaker 03

  Right, okay, go on.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  There were definitely periods of my life, you know, such as when I was hovering behind Emma Watson. Like when I was hovering behind Emma Watson like Gavin Plum. Okay, there was eras where I would have really liked a burkini to go swimming in.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  For modesty.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  For modesty. Okay, because I've said this, I've said this before. The straightest man, men there are, they don't go topless ever. They wear skin tight wetsuits.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  When they're in the pool.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  They make them look more naked, but it's about modesty. It's about giving their wife a chance.

• 44:50Speaker 00

  To not get too horny.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  Not letting other women who are not your wife see your naked body.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  My disgusting flabby, soft-belly torso is my wife. It's not for these random tourists, you know. I would have appreciated that.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:05Speaker 00

  You know, since the Great Stretching, since my personal trainer.

• 45:09Speaker 03

  Was that in 1054? No, that was the Great Schism.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  The Great Schism was 1054.

• 45:12Speaker 03

  The Great Stretching was probably like...

• 45:13Speaker 00

  It was probably about 2006.

• 45:16Speaker 03

  Right, okay.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  Since the Great Stretching, since my personal trainer Tyrikes helped me get up the stairs, I am now much more comfortable being topless in a pool environment. But there was an era of my life where I would have very much, very, very greatly liked a burkini.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  So I have empathy for a younger self and for other young fat tailors about.

• 45:34Speaker 00

  I don't think Muslim women should wear them. I think Christian fatties should.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  Okay, that's my position on the burkini. Anyway, so yeah, Luther's, but to be fair, I don't know how much, when people are like, oh, he had complicated views on Muslims. Everyone at the time had got...

• 45:49Speaker 03

  They do have complete...

• 45:50Speaker 00

  People have complicated views on Muslims now. I mean, they're two entirely different worldviews, right?

• 45:53Speaker 03

  But are people trying to cancel Luther for...

• 45:55Speaker 00

  No, what we're about to do, what we're about to go through is...

• 45:58Speaker 03

  In the 1500s, I don't know if you can...

• 46:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:01Speaker 03

  Has he got, what is he on Jews?

• 46:03Speaker 00

  He's not being like, well, this is fucking Sax- Saxinistan. Fucking German- German Inistan these days. You can't drive around Saxony, can't drive a fucking Ford Transit around Saxony now. You're the fucking Sharia Ules. No, he's not going on about that. But we get to probably his most controversial writings. He wrote several things about the Jews, which when you say about anyone, you think, it's never going to be love letters, is it? Is there anyone who's like, got some writings on the Jews that have not led...

• 46:35Speaker 03

  From the 1500s?

• 46:36Speaker 00

  That have not, no, just ever. Anyone's ever written about the Jews? Is it ever good?

• 46:43Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  Do you know what I mean? Is it ever complimentary?

• 46:45Speaker 03

  Let's pull the Band-Aid off, what's he saying?

• 46:47Speaker 00

  He calls for the burning of all synagogues and to exile all Jews.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Right.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  In his work entitled, quote, "On the Jews and Their Lives".

• 46:55Speaker 03

  And he was considered a moderate at the time.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  Well, yes, he's just got the searing clarity of Errol Musk.

• 47:02Speaker 00

  So he targets the Anabaptists, which is later becomes the Amish and Catholics. But it's primarily an antisemitic work because the Nazis, they referred to the work as one of the most, quote, radically antisemitic things to be published ever.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Wait.

• 47:19Speaker 00

  They're saying that as if it's a good thing.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  But if they're saying that's antisemitic, that's.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  They're like, fucking chill out, mate.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  Christ, I mean, I agree, but woof.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  And that's the Nazi party newspaper, which is called Der Stürmer, which is not Kirchdorfer.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Which I can already see that will be a riff that some people will comment on.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  Was it Kirchstürmer?

• 47:43Speaker 00

  Oberkommandant Kirchstürmer? Anyway, so it was displayed in a glass case at the Nuremberg rallies. And that specific work was given to the editor of Der Stürmer as a birthday present in 1937. Much like, you know, there are patron members who send me Nazi memorabilia that they stumbled across. I do have them.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  Relics?

• 48:05Speaker 00

  I do have them. I do have, yes.

• 48:07Speaker 03

  You are, you're becoming into.

• 48:08Speaker 00

  I am getting into.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Hitler's farts.

• 48:10Speaker 00

  Hitler's farts in a jar.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  Hitler's barf.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do. There are some relics that I'm interested in. But again, this is, you know, it's like Protestant relics are World War II bullets and spent casings. Because that's our religion.

• 48:26Speaker 03

  But I'll get into this more, but I was listening to an interesting podcast that was saying basically how this country's Protestantism has really died down in the last 50, 60 years.

• 48:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  To the point where it's blended a lot with Catholicism, right?

• 48:38Speaker 00

  With Anglicanism, I guess, yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Well, I think loads of fixtures of British life are becoming more Catholic in ways that there would have never been 50 years ago. For example.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  Gay pride.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Gay pride? When Princess Diana died. The outpouring of emotion.

• 48:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  The.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  Deifying her as a saint, the relics.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 48:58Speaker 03

  And all of the.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  The teapots.

• 48:59Speaker 03

  The teapots, all of that, that was.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  Kitch.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  A very Catholic response.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  Very Catholic.

• 49:03Speaker 03

  And wouldn't have happened 50 years earlier.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  No.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  So it's more that the Protestant philosophy is definitely dwindling a lot.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Well, listen, the whole mental health thing.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  Therapy, right, is

• 49:18Speaker 03

  He's Catholic.

• 49:19Speaker 00

  is confession for Protestants.

• 49:20Speaker 03

  Ah, fuck.

• 49:22Speaker 00

  Isn't it?

• 49:23Speaker 03

  Cooking.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  You go and talk to a box.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Don't call her that.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  Or whatever. It's Protestant, you know, they're selling therapy as if it's some new thing. It's just, it's just confession, isn't it?

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, fuck.

• 49:38Speaker 00

  But it's for people.

• 49:40Speaker 03

  But it's been done with a Freudian scientific background, so you feel more all right about it.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  It's not spiritual.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  No, but no, but it's trying to unpack.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  It's scientific.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  No, because a Protestant has sinned, like, from birth, that's, Luther says, we're all, it's impossible for us to get away out of sin, right? So what therapy, what confession, therapy does, if it's confession, is go, well, this is your original trauma. This is your backstory. This is your childhood trauma. This is, you didn't pass your anal stage.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  This is your villain origin story.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. And so that is, whereas a Catholic would go, oh, yeah, today I gusto woman and I'm sorry. And he goes, yeah, you've, you're free. And he goes, okay, brilliant. All right, I'll probably do it again then.

• 50:23Speaker 00

  Because he's not looking to be cured.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  No.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  He's just looking for a pass.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  And he's also like, I've been a fucking bad boy. There's a horniness to it.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  It's like, I've been a, it's behind the Catholic, Catholic drama, you know, these things, there's a cinematic nature, the, the veil between you and

• 50:40Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 03

  And it's just like, I've sinned, father.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  So gay.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Are you gonna punish me for being such a bad, bad boy?

• 50:47Speaker 00

  And, and they do.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  And they do.

• 50:48Speaker 00

  And there's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of institutional paedophilia in the Catholic, Catholic church.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  Is there?

• 50:54Speaker 00

  Yes. But the way you were talking about it was that you were sort of victim baiting him by going, I've been a bad boy.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  So, yeah, anyway, this, yes, you're right. Princess Diana's, the grief was, yeah.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  It's a Catholic response.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  It is.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  The country is.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  And she's British. What are you doing? Her name wasn't fucking Diana O.

• 51:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  He also talks about the, what he wants to happen to the Jews is them all to be burned.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  He is sort of thinking about the Holocaust like at a time before that's even a thing.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's a very modern thinker.

• 51:32Speaker 00

  And Hitler basically, you know, because Hitler's trying to create, as we said in the last episode, a Germany that is like, feels like a country more than it is. Because when Hitler's in power in Germany, Germany is 40 years old, something like that, 50 years old. He's trying to tie Luther into the German story and Luther's basically sort of like firing out ideas for a...

• 51:52Speaker 03

  He's firing a lot out.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  He is.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  Well, he's not firing a lot of shit out, that's the problem.

• 51:56Speaker 00

  No.

• 51:56Speaker 03

  A lot of ideas, but...

• 51:58Speaker 00

  But yeah, so he...

• 51:59Speaker 03

  A stool a year.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  He lays the intellectual seeds for Hitler, Hitler's anti-Semitism.

• 52:05Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 52:05Speaker 00

  Anyway.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  And this is your favourite guy ever, right?

• 52:09Speaker 00

  I think this is the greatest man ever, yeah, yeah. The proto Hitler who couldn't poo.

• 52:14Speaker 00

  In 1933, the Nazis celebrated, quote, "German Luther Day" to link the Protestant Reformation with the Nazi Revolution. Well, you've snookered me there, Phoebe, you've snookered me, all right? You've got, you've got me.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  A threesome with two beautiful women.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  Luther and Hitler. Rock hard place. I couldn't choose between them.

• 52:38Speaker 00

  Why can't we just all marry each other as a three?

• 52:40Speaker 03

  But so Nazis were not a religious movement though, and they didn't tie religion in that much.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  No, but as Tom Holland says on our Disabled Sister podcast... Or rather our Able Body Sisters podcast.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  Luther's train of thought leads to atheism.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  Because if your own relationship with God is that you think it's bollocks, but that's what you think and that's your conscience, then that's the most important thing.

• 53:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  So you think it's bollocks.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  The logical endpoint of the Reformation is atheism.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  Is Ricky Gervais.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  Because you, yeah, because, and that's why there's more Protestant countries are far more atheist than Catholic countries.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  And eventually why Catholicism will far outlast the Protestant Revolution in a thousand years' time, I suspect.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  You say that, but Ireland is essentially Protestant now. I mean, gay people can get married and, and you know, you can't kill babies.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  That's a small country though. If you think about the power of the Pope.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  I mean, what even is Ireland now? You can kill babies. What's going on?

• 53:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 00

  You know?

• 53:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess so. I mean, Ireland's one example, but I think that because Protestantism, it breaks off into these small little

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Sects.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  Sects.

• 53:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Those sects don't have the history and tradition and the staying power that the Catholic Church does.

• 54:00Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Now, when you have the new election of the Pope and there's this celebration of the thousands of years' history, it's a church that thinks in centuries, not in decades. I think as a through line to the past, that's made it so strong. Whereas what? You've got Amish, you've got Methodists, you've got... Like, this is all sort of fading away. And also, people have lost conviction because there's no rituals or tradition in these churches. It's about your own relationship.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Well, it's just therapy now, isn't it?

• 54:26Speaker 03

  It's just therapy, but also you don't need God anymore with Protestantism.

• 54:29Speaker 00

  No.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  You don't really need him because it... You're constantly... It's a constant act of stripping away things that corrupt your relationship with God. Get rid of all the stained glass windows, get rid of all of that. And eventually, it's like, might as well get rid of God.

• 54:42Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 54:42Speaker 03

  I've got rid of everything else.

• 54:43Speaker 00

  Fuck him off.

• 54:44Speaker 03

  But because it's... There's no rituals, it doesn't have the sense tradition. And I think eventually that will mean the Protestant churches will just be atheist and the Catholic sense tradition will maintain, still exist far longer.

• 54:58Speaker 00

  But they're also probably gonna outbreed us.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  I love this.

• 55:04Speaker 00

  They will not replace us.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  Level of like, right wing where it's like, it's great replacement.

• 55:09Speaker 00

  It's a great replacement to be like Catholics.

• 55:10Speaker 03

  Catholics, it's not even...

• 55:11Speaker 00

  No, it's about the wrong type of white.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  That's how niche it is.

• 55:15Speaker 00

  It's white on white violence and we must fight back against the Catholic menace.

• 55:19Speaker 03

  The great replacement.

• 55:21Speaker 00

  He thinks priests, to be fair to him, again, he's thinking of the Holocaust before that's even a thing, okay? He thinks all Catholic priests are sodomites. Again, this man is a prophet.

• 55:36Speaker 00

  He writes-

• 55:37Speaker 03

  He's getting visions on the toilet.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  He is.

• 55:39Speaker 03

  He's psychedelically constipated.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, he is. He's pooing so hard that he's on mushrooms, right? He writes that Cardinals are trying, quote, "Not to keep as many boys in the future", but that "it was well known how openly and shamelessly the Pope and Cardinals in Rome practiced sodomy."

• 55:55Speaker 03

  Fucking hell.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  Cook King.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 55:57Speaker 00

  He's firing off warnings 500 years ago.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  Shit.

• 56:01Speaker 00

  All right?

• 56:01Speaker 03

  It's an open secret.

• 56:02Speaker 00

  It's an open secret. Luther, I mean, how much more of open can you get as an open secret?

• 56:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  So Martin Luther ultimately dies in 1546. And one of his final words that he says to his wife is-

• 56:18Speaker 03

  This is beautiful, this one.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  This is beautiful.

• 56:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:20Speaker 00

  And this is, I think this-

• 56:20Speaker 03

  Because he's a great writer.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  He is, and he's an eloquent man.

• 56:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:23Speaker 00

  And he's, you know, he's very articulate. This is his final words, quote, "I'm like a ripe stool and the world's like a gigantic anus. And so we're about to let go of each other." Listen, guys-

• 56:37Speaker 03

  I've heard his early stuff.

• 56:38Speaker 00

  Guys, Protestant poetry's not good.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  All right? I've never said it is. I don't understand poetry, okay, because I'm Protestant. Protestants can't handle subtext.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  I actually disagree with you on that, though.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  Go on.

• 56:52Speaker 03

  Because Protestant art, where it is good, is non-visual art. Because it's not about the aesthetics. Catholic art, you think like-

• 57:01Speaker 00

  Tracey Emin doing a poo on the floor.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's Protestant art, but it's not just that. It's the, it's all about literacy and reading the Bible.

• 57:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  So they're more literate cultures and more poetic cultures than Protestant cultures. Because America, Britain, Scandinavia, these are, it's a more about the written word.

• 57:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 57:23Speaker 03

  As opposed to what, when you go to-

• 57:26Speaker 00

  The oral tradition.

• 57:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, more, more as opposed to going to a church, hearing Latin and seeing these beautiful images, which leads to more visual culture.

• 57:34Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 57:35Speaker 03

  So I'd say that's actually a split.

• 57:36Speaker 06

  Can you try and say it as beautifully as you can? Like, how can he say it in the, how can he polish the turd of that, of that as his final words? Say it as kind of-

• 57:44Speaker 00

  He's on his deathbed.

• 57:45Speaker 06

  Emphatically as you possibly can.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  In a German accent?

• 57:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 57:50Speaker 00

  I'm like a ripe stool and the world's like a gigantic anus. And so they're about to let go of each other.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  I mean, it's romantic.

• 58:00Speaker 00

  It is romantic. This is, again, this is a Protestant man trying to be romantic.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  But it seems, it just seems like he's, he's been trying to have one shit for 30 years. And it feels like he knows that finally he's gonna have that shit and he will leave this mortal coil. This is like the end of his, now he's done that poo.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  His job is done. My work is done. He, rather than saying, rather than saying, I think you should go up and give that to him. But it's, he goes, my work here is done. And he just dies.

• 58:28Speaker 03

  Fades out.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  He ascends to heaven. Um, go on, what have you found, Charlie? Read it out.

• 58:35Speaker 06

  The longest anyone's gone without pooing is 45 days from 2013 involving a 28 year old woman.

• 58:41Speaker 03

  Where's she from?

• 58:42Speaker 06

  She is from the north of England.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Really?

• 58:45Speaker 00

  North of England?

• 58:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 58:46Speaker 00

  Oh, that's beautiful, isn't it?

• 58:47Speaker 03

  That's good stuff.

• 58:48Speaker 00

  These severe instances often require surgical intervention for, quote, fecal mass removal.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Do you have a fucking caesarean?

• 58:59Speaker 00

  Christ. C-section for a poo is, you've really, you've really lost life, I would say. I don't think, look, I don't want to, I don't want to diet shame anyone. You know, I've been through my own struggles. But if you're having to have a C-section, an elective C-section for a poo, you're a fucking idiot.

• 59:19Speaker 00

  All right? You, you really.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you should be ashamed that you've had to put the doctors through that because these surgeons should not.

• 59:26Speaker 00

  How am I paying for that on the NHS? I mean, that's an argument for private healthcare. Christ.

• 59:32Speaker 06

  Pooper.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Pooper.

• 59:35Speaker 00

  Jesus Christ. Awful.

• 59:38Speaker 00

  So Luther dies with his touching last words about how he's finally going to have a poo. He believed he maybe died of a stroke or heart attack. He lives to 62, which is pretty old for pretty good innings for 1546.

• 59:53Speaker 00

  Now, the reformation that he's set in trail carries on, but in 1555, a fragile peace is signed. The Peace of Augsburg, and this is an attempt to prevent more religious conflict between Catholics and Lutherans. It formally divides the Holy Roman Empire into Catholic and Lutheran states, and it's the first time where you ever say, hey, there's a Latin phrase for it, but it's your state, your religion. So you practise whatever religion you want. So if you live in Bavaria and your prince is Catholic, you're Catholic. That's why Catholic.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  Do you think Germany is a Protestant country?

• 1:00:25Speaker 00

  Well, it is, but it has these southern Austrian Catholics.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  Catholics and they are Protestant.

• 1:00:29Speaker 00

  That's because of this, right?

• 1:00:32Speaker 00

  But the crucial problem with the Peace of Augsburg is that it does not recognise Calvinism.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:00:38Speaker 00

  What is Calvinism? You think Luther was boring and pooey. In our next episode, we're going to get into my intellectual heir, or rather, I'm the intellectual heir of him. My ancestors, John Calvin and John Knox, the Presbyterian.

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  The head of the fun police.

• 1:00:55Speaker 00

  These guys are the Christian Iranian morality police, of which I am a member, okay?

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  That's in our next episode. Now, the rest of the other two episodes of this series are on the Patreon already. Patrons will be able to get access to that now. For £3 a month, we are the biggest in the country.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  Come on.

• 1:01:14Speaker 00

  Extraordinary.

• 1:01:14Speaker 03

  Look at that. We beat Hamas and we're hurtling towards the Taliban.

• 1:01:20Speaker 00

  We are going to take on the Taliban.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  The Taliban, I think, what was it again? I believe active fighters, 90,000. It's a big, it's a big aim, but we've got to aim high.

• 1:01:29Speaker 00

  Have to have an alliance with them.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  Hamas.

• 1:02:00Speaker 00

  We have buried Hamas. We've solved that, actually.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. And their membership's going down, I feel.

• 1:02:05Speaker 00

  I think it is, yeah.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  While ours is going up.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  Now, now, do you think that's because we are getting active Hamas members?

• 1:02:10Speaker 03

  No, there's, okay, core, let's, we'll get core fighters.

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  As of early 2026.

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:02:18Speaker 00

  But that's the takeover strength. They think they, they, they, yeah, to be fair, they are getting bigger Taliban.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  It's gonna be tough. So are we. We're getting bigger. Right, so let's just say 150,000 Taliban fighters.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  Okay, guys, we are project, let's say 20, Project 2036, okay?

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  And to celebrate, as soon as we pass 150,000, we are retaking back Afghanistan.

• 1:02:38Speaker 00

  We're taking Kabul.

• 1:02:39Speaker 03

  All of us together.

• 1:02:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. All of us. We're gonna take Kabul.

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  We can take them. Man for man, we can take them.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  So sign up to the Patreon, which will be seen as joining the draft to take on Kabul. And we are going to implement a regime that is even worse for Afghan women.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  That's on the Patreon, enjoy that. But if not, we'll see you next time for a deep dive on Calvin.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  Goodbye.

• 1:03:05Speaker 00

  Bye bye.