The Age of Innocence with Libby Watson

Join us this week as we step into the Gilded Age with 1993's The Age of Innocence, an unexpected swerve from the guy who just directed Goodfellas and Cape Fear. But, as many film bros on Letterboxd will say - hot take, this is actually Scorsese's "most violent" movie! Libby Watson of the What's All This Then? podcast graces us with her presence, encouraging much discussion of British things, including Griffin's ancestral connection to the Wobbles and Miriam Margoyles' many appearances on Graham Norton. And, of course, there's much Dan Lewis discussion. Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  David.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  We did a live show.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 0:22Speaker 00

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter, it was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  It's $20. We had a blast and the spread master really got to work.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  You were thrilled. You were like a picky chick.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Speaker 00

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Speaker 00

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  You gave me my first glimpse of a real podcast and then you asked me to go on with the false one. No one can endure that.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  I'm enduring it.

• 1:48Speaker 00

  I'm finding it's really hard. I was trying to practice it while watching this. I've seen this movie twice in one week after never having seen it before.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  It's hard for you to do, uh, Daniel Day De Lewis doing an American but posh, you know, Englishy, American accent from the Gilded Age.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, he gets a little comedy at times.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Well, cause he's got this.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  There's a little bit of a clip.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Bit of a back of the throat. You can talk, guest. You may speak on this, on enunciation.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel extremely qualified to do so. Um, unfortunately, the first thing that popped into my head was reverse Frasier.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  Reverse Frasier.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Right. So Frasier's, right.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  American, but doing that sort of, uh.

• 2:26Speaker 00

  Oh, dear Lord.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Did Frasier.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  My good word.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Live in a second Gilded Age. Frasier in the nineties in Seattle, going to the opera, having his cappuccino. Is that the second Gilded Age?

• 2:38Speaker 02

  I am embarrassed about how much I thought about Frasier.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  While watching this film.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Frasier being my frame of reference for everything in the film. I feel like I need to leave right now.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  I don't really, I mean, I, I support you completely. I'm not quite sure how much overlap there is between Frasier and opera.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  Opera.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Sort of social stuff that I don't quite understand, but I get the impression is important.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  But I mean, like Frasier was allowed to shag. What's, you know, like he could put it on stage.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Incredible that the backbone of must see TV, they would cycle in other shows for a couple of seasons that were more obvious, but the backbone of must see TV was just fucking coastal elites.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  No, Griffin, you're, you're very wrong about this.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Oh, he was on Tuesdays?

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Frasier was never must see TV and was moved around the lineup constantly. I do, I'm sorry. This is like nineties TV nerd shit of mine.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  This is important.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  But like, cause it was one of those things where like that show won, I think best comedy at the Emmys, like four years running or whatever, you know, it's such a critical fave.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  More awards.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  And it, and it.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  1997, too.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  I think its ratings were always like pretty good. Like it was always a popular-ish show.

• 3:47Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  But NBC never knew what to do with it and they were always moving it around and they never had it, uh, like in a stable time slot, I feel. And now I want to like text our friend Emily St. James or whatever, who's like the true computer brain for this stuff.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  I mean, he did hold the record at the time for the highest paid per episode TV salary.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Right. It was like, it was a hit show.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  That was more about the awards than the ratings being that huge, you're saying.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Ratings were good.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm sure if we looked at it now, it was getting like 70 million overnight. And it was like, man, this is the 40th highest rated show on television.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was really good though, is the thing.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  It was good.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Now, I mean, the real question is what, what, what time slot was Frasier's call in show? I don't know. Was that like an afternoon drive time? Like when are people making psychiatry calls? You know, on the radio.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  My vibe I got was that people were calling in from their day job.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Do you know what I'm saying? And people were at the office and they were like, I'm gonna go to the bathroom.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  It was a midday sort of thing, to me at least. And there are a couple of episodes where he has to do night shifts and it's terrible.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  Right.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  And it's awful.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  Right. But that was like a special occasion.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  All right. Now let me see, cause I feel like I'm now looking at a must see TV grid. I'm sorry to do this. This episode is about a very lovely, wonderful movie.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  Everyone got annoyed when we did an episode that had 40 minutes of Becker, but today they're going to be thrilled when we do 40 minutes of Frasier.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Fuck yeah.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Can I?

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Can you tell me, is must see TV a specific thing or are you just saying?

• 5:12Speaker 00

  It was a Thursday night lineup.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  I understand.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  That was branded and was fucking rock solid.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  It was NBC's, uh, Thursday night lineup. It's probably, it's seen as kind of like the pinnacle of like bulletproof TV programming, which it actually wasn't. It had lots of moving parts, but it always, basically always started with Friends and ended with ER.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Okay. Wow. Yeah.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  You are settling in for the night, you know, at 8:00 PM on a Thursday, watching Friends, and then you will watch more, you have three more sitcoms, which would move around.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  Usually Seinfeld would be sandwiched in between two.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  So Seinfeld got the nine o'clock, right? And then, right. And then, so there would always, there was like millions of attempts to launch a sitcom out of Friends. I'm going to read them out because it's crazy. The Single Guy, Boston Common, Suddenly Susan, Union Square, Just Shoot Me. That one actually worked. Jesse, Will and Grace also worked. Uh, Daddy-O. Remember that one? With the guy from the Shield, Michael Chiklis?

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Where he's like, I'm a daddy-o. What happened?

• 6:09Speaker 00

  Belushi himself. Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  And then something called Curse. What, what even was that?

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Curse became the Stephen Weber show. This is one of my favorite references of all time. There was a Stephen Weber sitcom.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Why would you apologize? No, I love this. Cause I'm getting information that I missed by not growing up here.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Right. This was, right. This wasn't happening in the UK.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  This is, hey, let me tell you about it.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  Um, cursed was Stephen Weber, luminary, coming off of, uh, Wings and such, right?

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  They come up with a new concept for a show.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Another Cheers spinoff, much like Frasier.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  He goes on a terrible first date. This is true. Goes on a terrible first date with a witch. She curses him. And now everything in his life is cursed. And after like six episodes, they were like, this curse thing is getting really hard to write.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  The curse was lifted and the show was retitled The Stephen Weber Show.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  So now I understand. Right. Now it's just, yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  The highest concept premise that it just couldn't commit to for more than like a month and a half. But then you would hear these things where you were like, the Stephen Weber show kind of rebounded and averaged 20 million viewers.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  Rehated for losing 80% of its lead in.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  It's the problem. Friends was such a juggernaut that it was tough to live up to it.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  Occasionally they would have something that was a total belly flop, but often something was a hit, but it wasn't a big enough hit to justify must see.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  So just to give you a sense of how much Frasier moved around, in 93, 94, so that would be Frasier's like sort of fourth season or so, because Frasier started in.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  No, I think it was like the first season.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  That's the first season of Frasier. Right. Okay. So in the 93, 94, it was in the sort of proto must see TV lineup, which was this. Want to hear it?

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Yes, please.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  This is pre-Friends.

• 7:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  It's Mad About You, all right? Wings, fine.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Seinfeld, rock solid.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Frasier, new. So Frasier was actually getting the Seinfeld launchpad.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  So it did start there.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  It started. This is what I'm saying. But this is pre kind of what you think of it because then, because then the 10 o'clock is, is LA Law. ER hasn't started yet.

• 8:08Speaker 00

  ER is really when it's.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  So the next year, Frasier, I guess, I assume it sort of did well enough basically that they're like, all right, you don't need Seinfeld.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  Right. We can build a second comedy night around Frasier.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Mad About You and then Friends launching.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Out of Mad About You, Seinfeld again.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Uh huh.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  And then something called Madman of the People, uh, which starred, uh, Dabney Coleman.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  Great.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Uh, as an outspoken newspaper columnist. Oh, boy. It sounds really, really interesting. Craig Bierko's in it.

• 8:37Speaker 00

  Okay. The great.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Didn't, it didn't last. And then ER.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  And so then the next year, they're like, okay, we got it. Friends, new sitcom, Seinfeld, Caroline in the City, ER.

• 8:49Speaker 00

  Caroline in the City isn't.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  For a while she was doing good.

• 8:51Speaker 00

  It's another one I was looking at.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  She was being in that city.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  Because of, uh, her Larry Sanders episode where it's like, that did four seasons. It almost got to 100 episodes. It did well, but they were like, the drop off is too huge. You're losing 50% of the show before and after you. We need something that keeps 100%. Yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Back, now, now Frasier's sixth season, it actually makes, when Seinfeld ends, so Seinfeld concludes, so 98.

• 9:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Frasier is swapped into the Seinfeld spot, probably seen as kind of like, well, this is the best thing we've got.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Well, well.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  But, but then it only lasts a couple of years and then it gets moved out again.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  But my memory wasn't totally false. It was there twice.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  It was in there, but it's weird that they kind of just kept, because it had 11 seasons.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  This is what I remember though.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  David, is that season six is the last, like, I think unimpeachable Frasier season.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  I agree with this. Yes.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Season seven, it's like, okay, this is still pretty good, but you see, then they make the mistake.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  The Daphne thing.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Yes. The Daphne thing fucked it. Um, definitely like.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  It was tough.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. They shouldn't have, they shouldn't have done it then. That, that would have been a perfect end to the series is them driving off together in the Winnebago.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  My love Frasier so much.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Frasier's so good.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  Again.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Daphne's, you know, the, the charming British maid who, uh, has the will they want they would not.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  Let me actually help explain this.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  She's like, uh.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Who's Daphne?

• 10:07Speaker 00

  She, she was a.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  She's not a maid. I take her for a second. She was the helper.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  Guys, I know who she is. I'm just asking in case of the listeners who don't know.

• 10:15Speaker 00

  She's a Miss Ladybug, uh, Jane Leeds, Miss Ladybug from James and the Giant Peach. That, that helps clarify things in the Verbiage Bar Show.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  The reason I had this memory, David, why I was so locked into it being on must see TV, was I remember in that season, there was a really aggressive marketing campaign where it was weird to push a pre-existing show that hard. But I think they were putting money behind the messaging of it being on Thursdays instead. And there were bus ads.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right.

• 10:47Speaker 00

  Like very horizontal wide bus ads that wore Niles's face.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  A heart symbol.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  Jane Leeds face.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 10:55Speaker 00

  The word on, excuse me, the word on Frasier's face.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  And then must see TV. So it was Niles.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Niles Love Daffy on Frasier.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  I don't like that because it's like they're sort of sitting atop him perhaps.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, good.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  I was like, them being together is such a big deal that NBC is going to spend like $20 million?

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  But it makes more sense that it was a Thursday thing, that they were like, don't worry, Seinfeld's gone.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  But I mean,

• 11:21Speaker 00

  Frasier's taken a flight.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  It's the must see TV thing of like, you know, the three pillars were were Friends, Seinfeld and ER. And when they lost Seinfeld, it didn't, you know, must see TV continued for many years.

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Will and Grace helped.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  But it was never quite the same. I mean, this is also, of course, ignoring the, the, what was called the best night of television on television, which is the eighties version of must see TV back when it was Cosby, Family Ties, Cheers, Night Court, LA Law, before the Hill Street, you know, like when it was truly like.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Night Court was in that lineup?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Night Court was in there for a while.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  That rules.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  I was already settled into the idea of, right, Cheers, and then what? They burned Night Court off on some other day of the week? What?

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Just, I'm just looking. The end of must see TV. This is disgusting.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  Can I see if I can guess the final lineup?

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Uh, sure. You can guess the final one. It's actually the penultimate one that truly disgusted me, but go ahead. Just try and guess.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  What year is it?

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Two, all right. The one that disgusted me is 2004 to 2005.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Is that American Coupling?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  No, what the hell is that?

• 12:19Speaker 00

  They remade Coupling for American TV.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm writing this down.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  For my, for my list of terrible remakes.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  So that, uh, that one was pretty late, uh, Griff. That was oh, three? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, that was Friends, Scrubs, Will and Grace, Coupling, ER. No, no, you know, not amazing.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Inside Schwartz was the year before that?

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Inside Schwartz was the year before that. So that's Friends, Inside Schwartz, Will and Grace, Just Shoot Me, ER.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  And that's the final year of Just Shoot Me?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kinda, you know.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  It was just enough to stick around.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  It was kinda like hitting 230 by like, but you know, it was like, it was doing okay.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  No, and then it's Joey Will and Grace, The Apprentice, ER.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  It's just like, things are getting sick. Like they, they took out two sitcoms. Instead, we have to look at the mug of, obviously, a man who will go on to be a great leader, but he's not there yet.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  Two sitcoms and a horror movie every week.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Uh, and then the final lineup is Will and Grace.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. Wait, I want to see. Okay. Will and Grace is in there.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, because Joey's been canceled.

• 13:23Speaker 00

  Joey's been canceled.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  For, for, uh, you know.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  Is Will and Grace the only holdover?

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  This is why it collapses.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  ER is still in there.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  Because they tried to launch three new shows around it.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  They actually, no, they actually have, uh, two successful-ish new shows.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Scrubs is still in there?

• 13:38Speaker 01

  No, Scrubs is gone.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  Scrubs has moved to ABC.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  They're trying to launch a show that you'll never, I mean, you might remember, but you probably wouldn't guess, called Four Kings.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Remember, which was, uh, you know, Seth Green and three guys who look like him, who are friends.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Right. Uh, you know, the show's theme was hanging around by Counting Crows. That really puts you, puts you right in this.

• 13:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  And then My Name is Earl in The Office.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Early Office. Uh, My Name is Earl was actually a hit. People forget.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  Yes. And that's the launch of The Office. And then what happens? The next year is 30 Rock launches and they change it to Comedy Night Done Right.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Done Right. And it was My Name is Earl, the, seen as the powerhouse.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  The Office, Scrubs, 30 Rock, ER. ER is always just there.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  That's when it's like John Stamos.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  Lynda Cartellini.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Well, she was there. That's true. But like, but the truly pathetic final years of ER where they're like, people want to see John Stamos on ER.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Late ER became like current day Chicago on Broadway.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  It was like someone had done like eight photocopies of George Clooney and now it's just John Stamos. He was like, I like to fuck. And everyone was like, go away. Like enough. Close the hospital.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  This is the thing. This is our podcast and it's always going to be our podcast. And I need people to accept that sometimes an episode just opens with 20 minutes of sitcom talk.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  How did we get, because you love Frasier.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  How did, well, you see, this is,

• 14:55Speaker 00

  Did you bring up Frasier? You said anti-Fraser voice.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Well, I wanted to say that like, I, I feel like I have a, like my metric for whether or not these shows were hits, were whether they made it onto Paramount in the UK, which was the comedy, the, the channel that showed all the comedy, which is where I watched Frasier. I also would watch Mad About You, Just Shoot Me. They would also show Becca and Caroline in the City. So.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  We can't talk about Becca. That's a dangerous, slippery slope for us.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  But I have to mention that it was one of the shows that made it across the pond.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  And he was probably really happy about it.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Of course he was, and he deserved to be.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Frasier was quite powerful in the UK.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Frasier was huge in the UK.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  I mean, Friends were always the biggest sitcom. The whole thing was Seinfeld imported poorly.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, never heard of Seinfeld.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Right. The BBC had the rights to it for some stupid reason. Yes. And they never knew what to do with it. And the BBC had,

• 15:46Speaker 02

  Funny.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  The BBC had this tough thing where they were like, well, we have to show like, things that like the government told us to show likes, like Snooker, you know?

• 15:55Speaker 02

  They were calling John Major and being like, can we, can we show Seinfeld yet? No, sorry.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  You can show it at 11 o'clock. You know what I mean? Like Buffy was on the BBC as well and they would show it at like 5:45. Because like they had, you know, proper ass British programming to show you. They didn't have time to waste.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  They also had The Simpsons.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  They did have The Simpsons, but then The Simpsons went to Channel Four.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so, yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Channel Four bought it eventually.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Sky, then Sky won. And that, that was where I would watch the new episodes of The Simpsons and go, rubbish now.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  But Sky would have Two Simpsons episode at seven o'clock.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 16:27Speaker 00

  I'm just a little confused. Libby, how would you know that?

• 16:30Speaker 02

  How would I know that?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  How would this person, speaking in this accent with a show, uh, who hosts a podcast about this topic matter? None of that.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  I know what British people sound like. They sound like Davidsons.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  And I'm confused by you having a different accent and knowing the pop culture of the UK of the early 2000s.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Honestly, so happy any, anytime anyone says I have a British accent, because to me, I sound so American now.

• 16:54Speaker 00

  Really?

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  You don't sound American to me at all, but I,

• 16:57Speaker 00

  I don't think you even sound Americanized to my ears.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I, I did watch a clip of myself like, I don't know, 10 years ago or something recently. And I was like, now that's a British person.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Oh, like you, an early Libby pod appearance or like a?

• 17:10Speaker 02

  It was some radio show or something. Yeah, yeah. Um, and like now I say, you know, I'll find myself saying things like butter.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Butter.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Butter.

• 17:18Speaker 00

  Butter.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Butter.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Butter.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Butter.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Butter.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  Butter.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Butter, muppets.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Uh, introduce our show and introduce our guest, because I have, I have a thing I want to say about this, about British talk, Englishness.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  Uh, this is the Frasier Cast, a podcast about Frasier. We don't,

• 17:34Speaker 01

  It makes some money if we do that.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  We don't re-watch the show. We just break down when it aired.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Sort of vaguely kinda just like trying to remember.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, no recaps.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Just a list of days in the 90s.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Talking about what was going on around Frasier without ever discussing the episode week to week. Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure. It's been, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  And we own that.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  We own that.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  No one can take recapping Frasier from us.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Because I could use a second podcast and I think that would really go for me.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Libby, you can have it.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Awesome. Thank you.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  What's like the funny name for a Frasier podcast? What's the like, sort of?

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Dude, I'm sure that they already exist and it's called like Tossed Podcasts and Scrambled Eggs or whatever, right?

• 18:10Speaker 00

  Tossed Pod and Scrambled Cast.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  And it's actually really leftist is the crazy thing about it. Um, what about You're Listening?

• 18:16Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 18:17Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  That's, that's, that's a thinker.

• 18:18Speaker 00

  You're listening.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  That's a thinker.

• 18:20Speaker 00

  Parenthetical to this podcast.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  To this podcast. Yeah, there we go.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  You know who I had a bit of a crush on? I'm going to confess.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Roz. I mean, yeah, obviously.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  That doesn't track with anything I know about you.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  She's unbelievable, babe.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Anyway, uh, the podcast?

• 18:36Speaker 00

  Is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. It's a podcast about manners, high society, the finer things in life, fashion,

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 18:44Speaker 00

  fine dining, plating, having a big ass chair and just sitting in it and never getting up.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that. But that, that would be my vibe where I am in the Gilded Age.

• 18:54Speaker 00

  I'm very excited to do in this episode.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  I'd be one of those couch people that's just carried around.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Correct a mistake that I have been making for years that drives all of our British listeners crazy.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:03Speaker 00

  Miriam Margulies. I believe I always say Margulies.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  I always say Margulies too.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  Tell me I'm wrong.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  I say Margolies.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  Maybe that's what I'm doing wrong?

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, Miriam Margulies would be my guess, but now I guess I have to look it up. I guess I'll just have to watch any episode of Graham Norton to see if she's introduced on it.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  Those are so hard to find on YouTube.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. Those clips are just secreted away.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  You have to train an algorithm for years.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Uh, yes, the great Miriam Margulies. I would say Margulies. I don't know.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Marg- Marg- Marg- Margoles, like a gargoyle. Margoles.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  I think that's what people,

• 19:38Speaker 01

  She does have a funny way of spelling it, so I'm, I guess I'll look this up.

• 19:41Speaker 00

  People have told me maybe that it's closer to gargoyles. All I know is I've been saying it wrong, which is the only thing I've ever said wrong in this podcast. The only fact I've ever gotten wrong, the only thing I've ever mispronounced. Um, but this is,

• 19:52Speaker 01

  She says it's pronounced Margulies.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  Marg- Margulies.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, sort of like Margies.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  It's like a gift, gift thing.

• 19:59Speaker 00

  So then maybe the hard G is where I've been fucking up. Margulies.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  I certainly won't be changing my behavior based on this conversation.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  I never change my behavior based on any one talking to me.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  If anything, I want to dig in more, knowing that a podcast listener was mad about it.

• 20:11Speaker 00

  What, what are you, what have you?

• 20:12Speaker 01

  I'm watching a clip.

• 20:14Speaker 00

  It's not Margolis. Okay, that's what I've been saying wrong.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Okay, it's Margolies.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Margolies.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  All right.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  Margolies.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  I mean, regular-ish.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  I mean, I respect her greatly, so.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  Do you know that she won best supporting actress at the BAFTAs for this performance?

• 20:27Speaker 01

  I did not know that. I would say that is a, an example of the fun old BAFTAs. Back when they were just kinda like, did a British person, and she's a great actor.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  But did a British person kinda yell a bit, like, let's just cheek him a, you know?

• 20:41Speaker 00

  If one of our beloved people, one of our national treasures, does a little thing in a movie.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  I think that's like the BAFTAs equivalent of Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, winning best song for the alphabet song in the movie, which it does deserve. It does deserve, but.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  Can I throw out my theory?

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:02Speaker 00

  That they were ready to give it to Never Come Down, and then they realized that song was pre-existing.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 21:08Speaker 00

  And they were like, fuck, we have to nominate something.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  And they were like, we already wrote Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie on this fucking trophy with so many letters.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  He had put that song out as a legitimate pop song with his sister like 10 years ago.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  I had no idea.

• 21:23Speaker 00

  And so it's, it's like a fucking Moulin Rouge, come what may situation. This is a podcast about filmography, as directors who have massive success early on in their careers, and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. I don't even know how you categorize this film within his career, because this is the thing that I found interesting.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  It's not a blank check because it was actually made quite conservatively, but it was an expensive movie.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it also was successful. It was a hit.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  It was mildly, uh, hit is strong, but it did fine.

• 21:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. This was, I mean, this was a bankable genre at the time.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it, it cost about 30 and made about 30. You know, it did okay.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  It made 60 or 70 worldwide?

• 22:02Speaker 01

  I, this is the problem with box office these days. All the international money is not like

• 22:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  in these databases anymore, and it's so annoying.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  Yes. I, I don't like that.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  I think it basically made a satisfying amount of money and got a satisfying amount of Oscar nominations.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  Without.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  But there were slightly higher expectations on both fronts that were not met.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  And Howard's end is the same year, where it's like, that's crossing over in a bigger way, that's getting the wins and the noms.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  And it was a movie that was delayed in, in release by basically a full year.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Uh, which we can talk about because Marty is a bit meticulous, and so it contributed a bit to his rep of like, oh, he takes forever.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  And that we never should let him have fancy costumes again. Um, I mean, it's, what's interesting is we're doing a mini-series on the films of Martin Scorsese. It is called Podcast Fellas, and this is a thing, I don't know if you guys noticed this in watching this movie. Usually, in Martin Scorsese films, Italian people eat pasta and shoot guns.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 23:05Speaker 00

  And violence happens, but this one is actually quite different.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  Did you happen to, I don't know if this is something that you do on the podcast, look at the IMDb reviews for this movie.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Can't say that we often do that.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Funny. So funny.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  Is it a lot of, the fuck is this shit?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Well, kind of, but no, it's actually more kind of guys who think of themselves as film guys being like, um, interesting, uh, in this one, the mobsters are actually, um, the mafia, it's actually high New York society.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  In some ways, it's his most violent film of all.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Literally, literally, I think that is one.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Of, of Marty's.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  I did repeat that to, to Ben after we saw it. Ben and I went to go see this in a theater.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  Had you never seen it before.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  The Paris Theater.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  I think it was part of a something borrowed series of movies built around weddings or marriages.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Sure. Happy marriages.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. But we were sweating it. We were, this, which Ben was just like, that's a fucking rough movie.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  It's definitely, yeah, it, which rocks about it.

• 24:04Speaker 00

  That's what's, well, it's, it's almost like

• 24:09Speaker 00

  the crime in this movie

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  isn't organized, it's polite.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, he's doing, yes. Who's our guest?

• 24:19Speaker 00

  We're talking about The Age of Innocence today, from the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel. And our guest today, from what's all this then, the Pulitzer Prize-winning podcast. The great Libby Watson for the first time.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, we're trying to be kinda low-key about it.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Right, you wouldn't wanna publicize that.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Oh, that's what that is on the desk, okay. I didn't realize.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I'm bringing it with me.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  What does a Pulitzer look like? I don't even know.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  It's like a medal with a bald guy with long hair's head on it.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Sounds rubbish.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  You know, I don't want one.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Is it made of chocolate?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  You're at the, like, dinner, and you're like, can I eat it?

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Uh, I've never, I've never personally won a Pulitzer. Can't say, but I've seen a picture of one.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I want to so badly.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Do they do Pulitzers for podcasting yet?

• 25:03Speaker 01

  They, they do audio Pulitzer, audio journalism Pulitzer.

• 25:06Speaker 00

  They do audio journalism?

• 25:10Speaker 01

  The, yeah, the.

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Yeah?

• 25:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, apparently.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  Cause there was an Atlantic, um, podcast series that won.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  That was quite good.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Yes, by my great friend Catherine Wells and Van Newkirk, my coworkers.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  That was called?

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Floodlines. It was incredible.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  Excellent. Highly recommend.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  I'm not, that won a Peabody, I can't remember if it, cause like, they have a Pulitzer for like, audio reporting, but I think that more often will go to like, you know, NPR or

• 25:32Speaker 02

  They should do one.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Pablo Torre won it this year for the fucking, you know, the, the LA Clippers shit.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Is a Peabody award shaped like that cartoon character?

• 25:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's shaped like Mr. Peabody.

• 25:43Speaker 00

  The smart dog.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Do you think they ever had just a phone call of being like, should we change our names? Cause there's the cartoon character.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  I made a joke.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  We could be called anything else.

• 25:54Speaker 00

  Via text, in our group text the other day about winning a Peabody, and David said something to the effect of, yeah, your ass probably won a Mr. Peabody Insurance.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Which I thought was the most brutally dead-on.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Stupid joke.

• 26:08Speaker 00

  No, you are right. My ass would win a fucking Mr. Peabody Insurance.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  It's like, congratulations, you've won a Peabody. What's that? Uh, it's an award shaped like the guy from.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  It's the complete series of Mr. Peabody Insurance on VHS. Uh, Libby, I feel like you were about to say something before we start talking about Mr. Peabody.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  No, all I was gonna say is that they should do a Pulitzer for podcasts, that this podcast could win.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  Right. Excellence in talking about Frasier when the ostensible subject is something else.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah, yeah. Like the, you know, the good kinda podcast.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  Yes. Excellence in audio side tangenting.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I mean, just for everyone's awareness, I am currently compiling a list of Frasier's time slot for every, uh, year that it was on the air.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  Just that you can like, read this to yourself at night to false.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Honestly, honestly, Griffin?

• 26:53Speaker 00

  It's the kinda thing that comes to you now.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Sounds like something that would be nice, exactly. Like, it's just, it's just the kinda shit that comes to you. Someone recently, like, I was doing one of these little projects of mine, and someone was like, you know, AI is kinda for what you're doing. And I'm like, yeah, but then I don't get to do it.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  That's the last thing I want to add to the whole thing.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Right. And I, I wasn't even mad at them. I was like, I understand you're trying to like, help me. Like, you're looking at what I'm doing and being like, why are you wasting your time? And I'm like, but it's therapeutic for me.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  This is my, we were talking about this right before the record, Libby, the death of video game, uh, movie tie-ins, which I, I think are the peak of the art form. And I've been working for years on a master document of every game based on a movie we've covered that I don't even share, because it's complicated, and I still don't know if I have it right.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Uh, it's, I mean, I've seen that document, and it's, it's, it's a little overwhelming.

• 27:42Speaker 00

  It's overwhelming, because then you get into like, what is an adaptation versus what is a game based on IP that happens to have also been a movie?

• 27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  What's an example?

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Well, like, there's a Popeye video game from the 80s, but that doesn't represent the 80s Popeye movie.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 27:58Speaker 00

  More obviously.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Like, it looks like the cartoon, it doesn't look like Robin Williams.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  You're right, this can never be something that like

• 28:03Speaker 00

  It can never be shared.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  People who, well, I was gonna say that people who normally contribute to these sorts of wikis like, get their hands on, because it will tear them apart.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Correct. There, there are too many judgment calls, and like, Star Wars is the stickiest wicket in the world.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Oh, god, yeah.

• 28:16Speaker 00

  What is a Star Wars movie game versus, like, obviously, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith is a movie game. Star Wars Episode I: Racer is a movie game. Star Wars Bounty Hunter, the Django game, I would say is a movie game, even though it has a different narrative. But like, Knights of the Old Republic is not. That doesn't count.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Yet.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  I see, because it's part of the universe.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Until my screenplay is finally approved.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  David has been talking such a big game about how he's the one who's gonna fix Star Wars.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, let me at it.

• 28:49Speaker 00

  It's gonna work out great, everyone's gonna love him, no one's gonna be mad at him.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  So I just wanna sort of somewhat correct my record into, I said, it was moved around a lot of, um, times. But it did, apart from these, uh, the, the, the two little Thursday jaunts, it did largely live on Tuesdays. Usually at nine, sometimes 9:30, and that was kind of where NBC had tried to open like, a second comedy front.

• 29:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  They had Mad About You over there, they had News Radio over there.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  That's where Scrubs was originally, before they kicked it to Thursday.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  But then Scrubs ended up on ABC at some point.

• 29:22Speaker 00

  Correct, cause Scrubs was produced by Disney, and NBC no longer wanted to pay.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Right. And now Scrubs, of course, is in the hands of AI overlords on Hulu.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  Not overlords, one very committed romantic partner.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  One very comely, comely writer.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  What if we had Age of Innocence-style social rules today about people who date AI girls?

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Where like, we, they just don't get invited to like dinners anymore.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  And you're supposed to notice if they

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Are shamed.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you're supposed to notice if they like, stand up or sit down at various times.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  Incredible pitch. You could fucking write AI Gilded Age tomorrow.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Right, we do like stifling new societal rules to keep AI out.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  Near-future class system based around robots.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  I love this.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  I mean, I, I will say, some of the Disney Plus Star Wars stuff fucks around with this a little bit, and I always thought it was interesting and underexplored.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Oh, they're kind of like, trying to get into like, are droids people, are they discriminated against, what do they count as?

• 30:18Speaker 00

  Droid Gilded Age and talk about saving Star Wars. What Star Wars fans are looking for is commentary on the class system.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Anytime Star Wars has tried to do this, you just get more confused.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Like when Solo had the Phoebe Waller-Bridge robot, who's like

• 30:36Speaker 00

  Excuse me? The Phoebe Waller-Bridge girl boss.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Called, called what?

• 30:41Speaker 00

  Revolutionary L346 lady.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Right, like, T1, T5.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  It was boobs like upside down on a calculator, was her name.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  I'm really ashamed of that joke.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  She was a fembot. She was a revolutionary.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  She's like, droids have rights. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. And then I'm like, this is like a prequel to a bunch of movies where no one kinda brought that up again, so I'm not really sure how much this

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Clearly not a political issue at the heart of the conflict between the Empire and the Resistance.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  Droids have rights, she gets shot in the head, oh no, the robot's dying, what should we do? Install her brain into the Millennium Falcon. Oh, the Millennium Falcon is like a haunted ship with the sentience, sentience of Lando's fucking fuckbot?

• 31:25Speaker 01

  I think they were trying to be like, a happy ending, that's why the Falcon's so special, it's got Fleabag inside.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  Nightmarish.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Did we introduce our guest?

• 31:37Speaker 00

  We did.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  We did.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Uh, the great Libby Watson.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  What's all this then?

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Podcast called What's All This Then? Oh my god.

• 31:44Speaker 00

  Libby did request I do an accent when I say it.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  I did. Yeah. No, I feel, I feel sort of disappointed when they don't do it.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Uh, with, with the great Charlotte, Charlotte McDonald, a great podcast that you do about, um, I don't know, British stuff.

• 31:57Speaker 00

  You have been on it, David.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  I've been on it twice and I'm angling to be on a third time.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  What were your topics?

• 32:03Speaker 02

  Anytime.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  First time I did the tube.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  The tube?

• 32:05Speaker 00

  You. Next you're gonna tell me you were attracted to Roz on Frisk.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Oh, boy. Uh, and then, um, I did HP Sauce quite recently. Have you ever had HP Sauce?

• 32:17Speaker 00

  I have.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  I have.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Which I'm a big evangelist of.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  Uh, I like it. I'm not, uh, I, I'm a very mayo forward guy despite hating eggs.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  I understand this. Yes.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  I like mayo based sauces above all else.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  I love mayo too. HP Sauce, right, is for a very different thing.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  What about some HP sauce and mayo mixed together? Shall I try it?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Wouldn't mind it. Give it a go.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Shall I try it?

• 32:36Speaker 00

  This is the thing. Almost any sauce.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  You're on Twitch just making goo.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Just doing that. No, that's a sub goal. I'm writing that down right now. I could get 20 subs out of that. No problem.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Almost any sauce or condiment, my immediate thought is what if I mixed mayo in with this? And then I tend to like that more.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  I mean, that's also, I feel like America's immediate thought half the time. Certainly any American fast food chain, right?

• 32:56Speaker 00

  What can I say? I'm one of our finest.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Right. They're like, well, you know, you know, you're doing a He-Man menu and they're like, what could He-Man sauce be? Mayo plus what?

• 33:03Speaker 02

  A lot of the time it's kind of ketchup.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  That menu had no special sauce to it.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Oh, that's too bad.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  HP Sauce is for steak primarily? It's sort of similar to steak sauce. It's not for steak though.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  It's not for steak.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  At all. No, it's for bacon. It's for breakfast. I would say, right? Would you agree?

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  It's a most, um, common at breakfast.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  And on like sort of breakfasty sandwiches, like bacon sandwiches, things like that.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  It has actually a very limited set of use cases, I think. Um, it's, uh, yeah, it's bacon, sausages.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Sausages.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Sausages, but maybe sometimes people on like shepherd's pie or whatever, uh, baked beans.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  It's a, it's a much more, it's like a more vinegary savory ketchup. Uh, and in Britain, it's known as just brown sauce. HP Sauce is the most, well, HP Sauce is like the most famous brand name.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  But the sauce itself is just called brown sauce.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  That is, oh, oh, that is accepted as the, as if ketchup.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  If you're at a greasy spoon, especially in the north, where I went to college, uh, university, as they say over there.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  But they call it a greasy spoon?

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Well, we call it a caf.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  Called greasy spoon.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Greasy spoon. Libby's giving me a look. We call them greasy spoons in London.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  I don't know what the Londoners do, because I wasn't one, so.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. You would, but you know, uh, I mean, what's it, a greasy spoon in Britain, it's kind of like a diner. I get, but like a really sort of like cheap diner.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  Anyway, I cut you off. So you're saying HP Sauce?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  You have what, you know, on your table, red sauce and brown sauce. They don't even say ketchup. They just say red sauce.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Well, we do say red sauce or tomato sauce.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Tomato sauce.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Tomato sauce. Yeah.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  And if, in the north, brown sauce more favored. In the south, I would say ketchup more favored, right?

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I don't know. Again, I, I feel, um.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  I felt as I went north, there was brown sauce.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  I haven't really been to the north.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Right. We've talked about this. You didn't really spend much time up there.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  It's very embarrassing, because my whole fam.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  She's from the west.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Well.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Oh, yee-haw.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Oh, no, it's Charlotte's from the west.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Charlotte's from Bath. I'm from, uh, Bainbury, which is near, uh, Oxford, like between Oxford and Birmingham. So kind of slap in the middle. I think I'm basically as far from the ocean as you can get in the UK.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  People, we don't need any of that.

• 35:12Speaker 00

  Exactly where I want to live.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Any of that on this island nation of ours. Don't want to see any glittering.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Landlocked.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Um, no, my whole family's from, from Yorkshire, but I, uh, I've, I've only been there a little bit, so I don't really know what they do.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  Yorkshire's in the north.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Right? Yes, of the pudding. It's pudding place.

• 35:30Speaker 00

  That's where they make it. It's kind of like Hershey, Pennsylvania.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, anyone can make a fucking Yorkshire pudding. We make them here. They're just called popovers here.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  It's the same.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  David?

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  It's not cuffin' season for me. It's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 35:56Speaker 01

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• 35:58Speaker 00

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• 36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. I have a Lisa too. Uh, they've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 36:11Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:11Speaker 01

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• 36:18Speaker 00

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• 36:22Speaker 01

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• 36:22Speaker 00

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• 36:23Speaker 01

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• 37:10Speaker 00

  David?

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Yes?

• 37:11Speaker 00

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 37:22Speaker 01

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• 37:30Speaker 00

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• 37:38Speaker 01

  Uh, got stocking stuffers maybe, the sickest luxury items.

• 37:43Speaker 00

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• 37:48Speaker 01

  Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay? That's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 38:01Speaker 00

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• 38:32Speaker 00

  David?

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Yes?

• 38:33Speaker 00

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, uh, Louis Partridge, uh, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Esqueri and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation. Written by Robin Ahern, uh, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 40:05Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, Libby.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  David alerted me there was perhaps a chance you were coming to New York and could do an episode. You, you do a lot of Twitch streaming. You're a big gamer. We were like, we've been doing a lot of video game movies on Patreon. Should we maybe do that? Then we find out you are terrified of zombies.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  Avoid them like the plague.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  This.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  That's so embarrassing. Can I tell you?

• 40:30Speaker 00

  We were like, have her on a Resident Evil. That's like a perfect lineup.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  She loves games.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  And you were like, I won't look at that shit.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  No. Um, I did watch 28 Days Later for our podcast and.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  That's pretty brave of you if you're afraid of zombies. There's a zombie or two.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  I really wish that I hadn't had to do that. And then we watched fucking Shaun of the Dead.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  So you didn't watch these things and go like, you know what?

• 40:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  I appreciate the artistry here and I'm over it. You were like, instead like, get zombies away from it.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  Shaun of the Dead, you didn't find funny. You were too scared to be laughing.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  I was just crying the whole time.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  No, I was hoping that I had grown out of it. Um, and I hadn't. I, I remember going to watch I Am Legend with my high school boyfriend when I was 18, 19.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  One of the greatest movies ever made.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  It's a good movie.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  It's so, it's so stupid. And even while thinking, this, this movie's pretty stupid and the end of this movie is quite stupid.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  And the end is not perfect.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  And the zombies look like Gumby in that movie.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  The zombies look silly. But Will Smith does quote Shrek almost in its entirety. There's lots of fun stuff in that movie.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  It's the movie that Will Smith should have won the Oscar for.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  I would, I'm sure I would have fun watching it now if I were able to extract the zombie fear from my brain. But, so the Bainbury's a pretty small town. Well, not small town, but it's like 70,000 people, but it's shit. So like, uh, leaving the theater, it was completely deserted.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Yes, right. If it's like 9:00 PM, I assume everyone's on it.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  And I remember leaving the theater and I was, I think I was on some kind of like antidepressant that I hadn't been on before. And I, my anxiety was just like through the roof already. I remember going home and lying in my bed and the, the window was open. And I, the village that I lived in was so dead silent, except for, have you ever heard when a fox screams?

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Yes, I have. Of course, we used to have foxes in our backyard and it was insane.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  It's so awful.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  The fox says?

• 42:15Speaker 00

  What?

• 42:15Speaker 02

  That's, that's what the fucking fox says.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. They don't go ding ding ding ding ding, or whatever that song says they do.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  No, they make horrible noises. And I was like, this is gonna, this is gonna fuck me up for a month. And it did.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Good.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  And I never really, I never really got over it.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  So that was your initial intent? Zombie sort of scarring.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing is that I did get Resident Evil on the GameCube and I was 12 and I was.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Resident Evil four, great game.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Well, this was actually the remake of the original, which was really, really good. But very scary and I was too scared to play it myself. So like one of my friends came around and I watched him play it. And I did enjoy, I really enjoyed watching the gameplay, but it's, they really made it very scary to play that game.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  They weren't going for that.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Tension high.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah. And then they introduced Lisa Trevor for the GameCube remake, who is absolutely horrifying. She's wearing her parents' faces.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  She's just processing stuff and maybe we should give her some space.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  We're all wearing our parents' faces, aren't we?

• 43:13Speaker 00

  Libby, that is an unbelievably good point. It is, I'm, I'm actually, I'm jump scaring every time I look in the mirror lately. It is stupid how much I'm looking like my dad.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  I really feel that way.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, of course everyone looks like their parents, but I don't think it was especially looking like him.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  I, I see it so much now.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  To see a picture of your dad, your age, though. I've seen like one or two. Like, but you know, I don't, I haven't seen many pictures of your dad in his sort of thirties, forties.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  My father looked really different when he was young and I would look at photos of him and be like, I don't understand how this becomes the guy I know.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Right. And then a Wampa attacked him and he got his new face.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  I think he basically has looked the same since he was like 25. And I think I now look the same way that he looked at this age, which gives me a real clear glimpse in the future.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  I don't, see, I am a kind of a classic combo. I feel like you are too, Ben. You, like, you're kind of a combo.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  You got both of your parents' faces.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Like your dad.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  I kind of though, I really am looking a lot like my dad.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  All right. Can I tell you something devastating? I used to look so much like my mom and like if I.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  I've seen a picture of your mom.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  If you put like me at 15, my mom at 15, side by side, we look the same. And now I look like my fucking nan. I look like my nan. I'm 36. How do I look like nan?

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Was she a looker? Was she a gorgeous lady? Pride of Yorkshire, wherever she lived.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  25?

• 44:44Speaker 02

  At some point she was 25.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  A compliment.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, she. Look, my mom was a stunner and my nan was a wonderful woman.

• 44:52Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  And that's that.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Well, uh, I think, you know, I, and yet I haven't had this. I don't think I look like a particular parent. So I guess I haven't had that.

• 45:05Speaker 00

  There's some features with your mom, but I wouldn't say you look like your mom.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Dramatic. I look like my brother, but that's boring.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  You look very similar. Yes, yes.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Anyway, so you didn't want to do Resident Evil.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  No, I was too scared.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  I say to David, Age of Innocence, and he goes, ooh. And I was like, well, it's that thing where it's like, this is a movie. About British people trying to figure out what they're gonna keep in American culture.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  So true. And that's me also.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  You're an ex pack.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Right. You've come over and you've been like.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Come over here.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Still want to be rude about weddings and like, what is it they're rude about in the Age of Innocence? You know, where you sit down.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Everything. Yeah. Who you invite to what, what kind of flowers you send.

• 45:46Speaker 00

  It's like this violence is worse than the bullets that come out of a mafioso's gun. Is what I say about this picture.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Than what happens to Joe Pesci in a casino.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  They basically do that with their words.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Yes, right. And the, the cornfield is Fifth Avenue.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  My favorite killing field. Yeah.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  In the, in the movie, I mean.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Imagine if you traveled back in time to New York in the 1870s and you go to Fifth Avenue, you're like, where, where's the road? It's dirt.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  And they're like Louis Vuitton opening 1996.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Where is Minga's house meant to be? Cause they, they say it's like.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  The Upper West Side or whatever.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  You know, they say like, oh, it's in this, you know, like wilderness or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, haha. But it is, it's on, it's on like nowhere.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  We hadn't fucking put roads there yet. Give us a minute.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  There's that incredible cut out where you see.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Like it's just farmland, right?

• 46:37Speaker 00

  What's mostly, I think a matte painting and it's like farmland and some guys digging a giant square ditch. And then their house is the one that's finished.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  But all the rich people moved uptown.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Cause they, they.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Get away from the slums of downtown.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Get away from all the noise and the hubbub.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  And they were like, we'll be safe up here. And then of course, you know, what they didn't know is there was gonna be Zabars eventually.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  They also, right, they got to like 60th street and they were like, we dubbed this uptown. And people were like, there's actually like another 100 blocks. And they were like, all uptown.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  Jesus Christ.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  75% of the borough is up.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Her real world residence, I can tell you, because she's based on Wharton's great aunt, Mary Mason Jones, was Fifth Avenue and 57th Street.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  Pretty good address.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Right, right. These days, basically like, you know, I mean.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  Great place to see a doctor.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Great.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Well, but yeah, no, I mean, you know, Chambers Street in Lower Manhattan, I tell people this all the time, you know, is the, the, essentially the back of City Hall. Faces Chambers Street because that was the top of the city.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Like that Chambers was the northern border and that's why there's a gigantic burial ground for African American people. Right above Chambers Street. It's a historic monument now because they would bury them outside the city limits. We're talking like the 1700s, sorry.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  No, no, it has to be said. I mean, this, DC is like this where I think it's Florida Avenue that used to mark the boundaries of, of DC. And there was just so much more DC north of Florida Avenue now, but it used, used to be so tiny, this place.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Just a little city. They call it the little apple.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  Hey, fun fact, Dwayne Reed, The Cross Streets, that was where the first Dwayne Reed was.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's where I used to work.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Oh, that is interesting if you're from New York.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  That's also.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  And people, everyone listening should know it. They love when we do that.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  I don't know if you know this, but New York has these little restaurants.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Wait, can you get a bacon and cheese?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Convenience store, kind of, right, exactly. And they sell an unknown sandwich, like.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  David, don't talk, don't tell people about this.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  These are secrets. We don't want them blowing up. I did notice this film, the poster has a billing block above the title, Daniel Day Lewis, Michelle Pfeiffer. Winona Ryder. I said, what about and the city of New York as itself? Cause it's almost like a main character in this film. It's what I said to myself.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I feel like we're making fun of this movie. It's quite good.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  Pretty blown away by it. I mean, I watched it twice in one week gladly.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  So you had never seen this film before and you haven't read it to Wharton's Masterpiece Theater.

• 49:15Speaker 00

  I've not, no.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Libby, are you the same, in the same boat?

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Yes, I would have loved to read the book, but I didn't.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Really great book. I highly recommend it. This movie is very faithful to it, I will say, like.

• 49:25Speaker 00

  Okay, down to the narration, it feels like a very straight adaptation.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Um, so, uh, what was my point?

• 49:31Speaker 00

  Jay Cox said the first draft was done in like five days. Like I think it was a pretty clean porting. You were going to say.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Just make a book a movie.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  David is smiling at something happening on his phone.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I get the classroom pictures and they're just so cute.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's nice.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  They're doing these like portraits, my daughter.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  No, so nice.

• 49:50Speaker 00

  There's a word bubble above her head.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Right. So I assume she's gonna think of something to put in it. Like they're, they're mirroring, it's almost the end of, uh, you know, um, the school year. And like they're doing, they took these pictures in front of this wall when they were like their first day. So I really love her teacher. He's a, he's so good at this stuff.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  Your daughter and I have been kind of sharing some, some stuff taste wise. Pesto.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Pesto.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  My daughter's favorite food.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then, uh, Spidey and Friends, we have a favorite character.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, Tracy, the little robot.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  You like Tracy the spider bot? When did you get into this?

• 50:25Speaker 01

  But I sent a picture yesterday and Ben was very intrigued by Tracy, who's sort of a little robot friend.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  T R A C dot E, right?

• 50:33Speaker 01

  It's actually, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  And I noticed, I didn't follow up on this, but on that poster, I don't know if you know about Spidey and His Amazing Friends, Libby, it's a show.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  For young children.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  To indoctrinate the youth, uh, to get them on that IP.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  It's that one, I'm afraid, yeah.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  And the new season is like Fire Patrol.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, the new, so every year, first year, it's like, oh, Spidey fights guys. You're like, yeah, sure, sure, sure. And then they were like, he can turn into a dinosaur one season. You're like, why? And like, cause fucking kids like dinosaurs. So then they did pirate ships.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  Good.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm trying to remember the other, they've done other stuff like this, you know, uh, I can't remember some of the other things.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  They should make him a train.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  But now they're just doing fucking Paw Patrol. Like Spidey just has like a firefighter hat on. Yeah, because it's just clear every year, these like coked up execs, you're like, what else do kids like? And it's like, you know, they could just be happy with Spider-Man, but no. They need to also see Spider-Man drive a fire truck, yes?

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Yes, they should start doing classic British children's stuff. You know, you know how America loves to import British television? Import Postman Pat, Spiderman, the Postman Pat.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  As a black and white cat.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  And he's black.

• 51:36Speaker 00

  Yes, I know Postman Pat. I fuck with him a lot.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  He knows bull.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  My brother was obsessed with Postman Pat.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  My brother also was.

• 51:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  It's very gentle. Fine, actually, as well. Do brothers love Postman Pat?

• 51:46Speaker 00

  All brothers love. Hey, brothers, you love Postman Pat?

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Fireman Sam as well.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Fireman Sam, who I never liked as much.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  Postman Pat, Ben was like.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  What happens on the show? He fucking delivers the mail and sometimes the bridge is out. That is pretty much.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  Middle aged man. Postman Pat.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  There you go. Keep going.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Postman Pat with his black and white.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Bingo. Keep going.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Early in the morning and then something.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Just as day is dawning.

• 52:12Speaker 00

  It's the quaintest shit in the world. Little stop motion, middle aged man just driving around. Here he is. Here's your mail.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  I mean, he looks like a cool guy.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  I feel like usually it's the.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  That's the image I use for our postbox post on Patreon.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  On, on, on, what's all this then? I feel like that sort of when I moved to Britain and my brother was only five, so we were still very keyed into whatever they had on offer. I was so like, I had been raised on this diet of American children's television. So yeah, there was a Mr. Rogers and a Sesame Street, but there was so much like over the top cartoons with violence, right? And all this British shit my brother got raised on that was just so gentle of like, a man has a job and he does it with care.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  You need to look up.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Or shit like the Clangers or whatever, where you're like, this is weird, but it's not high energy. It's just weird like yarn mice on the moon going.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Okay, so.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Or the, the Herbs. Do you remember the Herbs?

• 53:07Speaker 02

  No, I don't know the Herbs.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, fucking I'll look it up for you.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  You look up the Herbs while you're looking up the Herbs. My husband and I have been rewatching The Thick of It, which is one of my favorite TV shows of all time. The people who did Veep and In the Loop. And there are a couple of references in that to British, like children's TV characters from the seventies. So I looked them up to show Lewis pictures of what they.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Who are we talking about?

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Bagpuss.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  And.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  Bagpuss?

• 53:34Speaker 01

  He's a big old pink cat.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  You need to, I think you should look up a photo of him to see how shit he looks. Also, great uncle Bulgaria from, oh, the Wombles.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Oh, the Wombles, of course.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  So made up. It sounds like I'm just making up cruel things about Britain though.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  Can I share a thing?

• 53:51Speaker 02

  God, he's awful. I hate him.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  I don't like, I don't like Bagpuss.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  I really dislike him.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  I was never a fan of Bagpuss, but I loved the Herbs who were a bunch of cartoon.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, I know the Lions.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Right. Parsley the Lion and Time. They were all named after various herbs.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  I regret to inform you, I actually really like the look of Bagpuss. I'm gonna start watching this. Can I share a fact?

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Did you like a Brum?

• 54:13Speaker 02

  No, I was never, I was never a Brum.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Sorry for bringing him up. Sorry for saying anything.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  Thank you. Blow your two minds and five percent of our listenership. My great aunt created the Wombles.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  What?

• 54:23Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  That's actually quite crazy. They're quite iconic in Britain. I didn't, how did I not know that about them?

• 54:28Speaker 00

  They're, they are like the British Smurfs or whatever. So like. And have persisted and have pop albums and live action movies and animated series.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  Elizabeth Beresford is your middle name.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Blood, AI generator.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  Stuff I want to talk about in this episode to some degree without doing a complete family tree. But my, my great grandfather was what they call a radium age sci-fi writer. Who was like an H.G. Wells contemporary named J.D. Beresford, whose books have just not really remained in the public consciousness. And he had four children and three sons who were all desperate to come out from under their father's shadows and become successful writers. And none of them could crack it. And they were like, you're a woman. You get married and have kids. We write books. We're men. And she made up the Wombles as a story to tell her children at night. And she was the only one of them who was successful.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  It was a fucking cash cow.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  My grandfather hated it.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  Oh, I love that.

• 55:26Speaker 00

  My grandfather, I, I, very complicated man who I know, uh, didn't know well. Yes.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's on, it's on your, yeah, it's on the Wikipedia.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  That you're her great nephew.

• 55:35Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  That is so cool.

• 55:37Speaker 00

  But bizarre because I also grew up with my mom telling me that was a thing and not understanding how big it was.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, the Wombles, God bless them, are pretty British.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  They're little trash guys, Ben. You'd actually really like them.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  They, they definitely do not have the ability to travel to America. You know what I mean?

• 55:54Speaker 02

  You could not make an American Wombles.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Some British shit just can't translate. Postman Pat, you could probably make an American Postman Pat.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, Melman Matt and he's got like abs.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  He's so hot. He's so hot.

• 56:05Speaker 00

  Ben's looking at the Wombles right now.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  The Wombles are very cute and I feel like the Wombles became this sort of like cultural, like thing in Britain.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  For sure. We were proud of them, I think, like as much as we are of the NHS and stuff.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  They were, they were at the London 2012 opening ceremony.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  They played Glassbury in the last decade. They had guys come out in big suits and played the Wombles novelty single, singles from the sixties.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 56:30Speaker 00

  In the last decade.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Wait, so their whole deal is they just clean up litter?

• 56:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, Ben.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  This is what I'm saying.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Kind of like the sort of like socks and no my idea about for garbage. Right.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. That is, that is actually very like a sort of like Nintendo game.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  Kind of plot like a lot of the time.

• 56:46Speaker 00

  Wombles game.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  I feel like Nintendo games these days, like the ones that are for kids, which not all of them are. Are like, are very much like, they're gonna have a character who's like, I love picking up litter and I love being good to my friends.

• 56:59Speaker 00

  There was a Commodore 64 Wombles game based around picking up litter.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  All right, we gotta play that.

• 57:04Speaker 00

  We gotta play that.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  What's all this at some point?

• 57:06Speaker 01

  Right. Yes.

• 57:08Speaker 00

  I might, should I call dibs on doing a Wombles episode with you guys? I've been looking for an excuse to go deep on the Wombles.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 57:15Speaker 00

  Cause I've only been in like sort of, uh, the, the perimeter.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  And it'll be kind of therapy for you in a way.

• 57:21Speaker 00

  I think so. There, there's, I mean, I was thinking a lot about, you know, in, in very short, the weirdness of my family is that. My mother's side is sort of all, um, class. Without actual status, if that makes sense. It was like British and then my grandmother, who was a Polish Jew, first generation from Brooklyn. Who went to Europe, married a British man and then a French man and tried to remake herself as European socialite. And they were like rich in connections and like arts and culture and had like no money. And everyone was like very tortured and alcoholic and what have you.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Okay, this is really interesting because this is quite similar to my family.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  And then my father's family was first generation, Eastern European, Jewish, figured out business.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:13Speaker 00

  Made money, didn't have the same kind of cultural purchase.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  And I feel like in both cases, the families I come from were very jealous of the other thing.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  Of course. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, this is a really fun thing about Age of Innocence is like. You know, and they, and they say it in the movie, all these people have fucking perfect lives. They have everything they want all the time. They have maids following them around to put their flowers in vases and hand them their coats and stuff. And they're fucking miserable because they've made up these, you know, structures around them that you don't need to have, by the way.

• 58:48Speaker 00

  No, yeah, but we don't need any of this.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  So this is my question. I posed it to my wife while we were watching it last night. I'm like, okay, so let's imagine I'm rich in, uh, the Gilded Age. But I have to imagine in, in this scenario, I'm new money rich, right? Like, cause if I'm old money rich, I'm locked into the system. There's no escaping. But say I'm some railroad guy or I'm a fuck, I have a factory. Well, I'm rich. Can I just be like, all right, I would like one nice house in New York, one nice house in the countryside to be rich and eat food and be happy. But not have to do any of this shit. Can I do that? Is that available to me?

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  I think it might be, but I definitely am like, if I wanted to start going to the opera or go to the, then it's like, then I'm gonna get sucked into all this shit.

• 59:29Speaker 00

  Here's my argument on this movie.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  What if I was just like, I'm just rich over here. I eat nice food.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Really got me thinking about, right? A lot of my upbringing is I, I was always really turned off by that sort of class system and the aspiration for.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Be funny if you were turned on by it.

• 59:46Speaker 00

  Within those things.

• 59:49Speaker 00

  No, I think anyone who listens to the show can understand that whenever I was in spaces adjacent to these things.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:54Speaker 00

  I found it really unseemly. I found the arrogance and the elitism of it very upsetting to me. And, and the lusting after it really kind of like grossed me out. Yes, exactly. But watching this movie, I am like, now we live in a time where the rich people have opted out of these systems and are just fucking crass, right? And there was, like, this is sort of what this movie is.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Do we need to put them back in one of these systems?

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  A little bit.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Where they're all just mean to each other?

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  The whole, yes, a little bit.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  You're talking about new money. There is still old money. So little bit of that.

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  But I also think those people are getting more crass. I think it's like the Richard E. Grant character in this movie is quietly one of the most fascinating characters. Cause they quickly set him up as basically he was a man gifted with taste. And thus his job is to kind of educate everyone on what they should be aspiring to do and to uphold. Which then becomes its own class system. Well, only if you're rich, do you understand the finer things in life? Because you're able to pay someone like this to advise you on those things.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:00:58Speaker 00

  But then he's also just like building up this fucking catty system of just the opening of the movie of him being like, that fucking bitch over there. Let me tell you some shit about her.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  If Richard E. Grant said that shit to me, I'd probably listen to him. He's very good at that.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  He's really good at that, yeah.

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  And I'd be like, oh, if Richard E. Grant says so.

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  I guess I have to be mean too.

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  But it was like, that's the way you show people your status and every day, and then create a system of oppression to be like, this is not accessible to you. And now the, the oppression is still happening, but they all have like Mar-a-Lago face and like shoot guns, you know?

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I mean, I think about this, like the Carnegie Library in DC, which I believe is now an Apple Store. Which is a fact that makes me very sad. Yeah. Uh, right. Sorry. That's what I meant is feel nothing at all. You know, there is that thing of like, rich people did used to, and even if it was a way of showing off.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Right. They would, um, you know, contribute to public society in these ways of like, let me build civic institutions.

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  Even if it was reputational laundering.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Right. But Elon Musk is just like, he's just buying Twitter and like doing, posting epic videos.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  Making it the everything sites.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Remember when he bought it in like one weekend? He was like, and by the way, you'll be able to do banking on this.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Banking on it.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Good. When did I suggest to you that banking was a need of mine? When I'm posting like tits posts.

• 1:02:25Speaker 00

  You know, my least favorite thing is when I hate, when I go into my local banking branch and I'm not bombarded with porn gifs.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. And don't forget the Nazis.

• 1:02:34Speaker 00

  I'm trying to make a deposit.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  Please show me some anti-Semitic memes.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  I'm starting to worry about it because I put all my money in X as soon as you said that. And I'm starting to worry that I'm not gonna be able to get it back.

• 1:02:43Speaker 00

  Don't, just don't look at it and trap the process.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Cause you asked and they said, no.

• 1:02:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. I DMed Jennifer Aniston on Twitter and she said, yeah, absolutely. Just send it to me in iTunes gift cards. And I said, sure.

• 1:02:54Speaker 00

  It means so much to me that you're a fan. Please send me 20 Applebee's gift cards.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  So I want to discuss this film now. It's time for us to do it, but I want to say one more thing that I promised I would bring up. So the other day, Tom Holland went on, uh, a show I consider a sort of rival in terms of status and money-making. Amy Poehler's Good One.

• 1:03:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. The greatest podcast of all time.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Right. But I mean, like a show where it's basically like, she's neck and neck with us. She's trying her best.

• 1:03:17Speaker 00

  We're number two.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  We might be number one.

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  We're semi-so so.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  She has Tom Holland on and I didn't listen to the episode because I can't stand his chirpy ass, but. I don't mind him on a, in a movie, he's fine.

• 1:03:28Speaker 00

  He made a shandy for his love.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  That's fine. I just don't need to be listening to him.

• 1:03:33Speaker 00

  A shandy for Zendaya.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  I actually enjoy Amy Poehler's podcast, but that one was a skip for me.

• 1:03:37Speaker 00

  Non-alcoholic.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  But then my editor, the great Allegra Frank, texts, DMs me on Slack. And she's like, now, Tom Holland just said something that threw me on this podcast. Amy Poehler brought it up.

• 1:03:49Speaker 00

  He said.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Which is that.

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  With great power comes great.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  He said, Tony, I thought you were dead.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  Mr. Stark.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  And which is that if you say the word quite as a modifier, like quite good.

• 1:04:04Speaker 00

  Yes, I've heard this.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  You mean just okay. Whereas if an American says quite good, they mean like really good.

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  This is true.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  And Allegra was like, I'm your editor. Have you been using quite this way? The British way the whole time? And I'm like, yeah, that's what it means. And it was one of those things where there had been an invisible gulf between us that neither of us had recognized.

• 1:04:26Speaker 00

  My favorite fantasy term, quite poor, when he doesn't like a movie and he's being like classy about hating it. But what he's saying is this is tremendously bad.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know with this one, because this is one that I've heard a lot as a sort of transatlantic difference. And I have gaslit myself into believing that I don't know what the, like what I think quite means. So I just don't say it anymore.

• 1:04:52Speaker 00

  You just don't use the word.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  So you're just censoring yourself.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  Well, I just.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  Wibby.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  I don't know what I mean.

• 1:04:56Speaker 00

  Comedy's legal, Wibby, say it.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  If I say something is quite good, I think I mean quite good, like, you know, good. It's not, that's American, right?

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  That's more American, I would say. I think if a British person uses quite, it's usually kind of to knock it down slightly.

• 1:05:10Speaker 00

  Quite is taking a snipe at the word you're about to follow.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  You know, it's not good, but it's quite good.

• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  Quite good.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  And Americans are like, oh, it's quite good.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, yes.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  A lot of it's inflection.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, I'm hitting it hard.

• 1:05:25Speaker 00

  You're hitting it real hard and good performance, Dave.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Thank you. Miriam, stand aside. The bath is mine.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Well, the one that I was thinking of from this movie, which isn't really a transatlantic thing, but just a sort of difference in how we use words now, is when they say things will be fine.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  He says, when Daniel Day Lewis says fine to mean great.

• 1:05:43Speaker 00

  Like fine and dandy.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  But to me, it's like, oh, my God, I fucked up so bad.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  You're telling me things are only fine?

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. If, you know, he says to his, like, his wife says to him, can I sit down? And he says, fine. But he means good.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  She would divorce him if he said that today.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess that's right. Now somebody, how are you doing? And I'm like, I'm fine. That means like, I'm clinging on, baby.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  But we should bring it back. Like, it was like, hey, you're like, well, I'm just fine.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  That'd be great. We should talk more like, you know, whatever, people who sell lollipops on the boardwalk.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  You know, turn of the century. Don't you think so?

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  It's ages since I talked to someone who sells lollipops on the boardwalk.

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, we gotta hit the boardwalk this summer and talk to these lollipop guild members.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:24Speaker 00

  My favorite dialogue exchange in this movie, that just kind of sums up the entire thing to me. Ellen says, is fashion such a serious consideration? And Newland says, among those who have nothing more serious to consider.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  Love that. That's the whole fucking movie, right?

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  That's the whole movie.

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  That's, you know, the blade comes deep.

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  David?

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:07:44Speaker 00

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:08:19Speaker 00

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby for you.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and is available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:08:37Speaker 00

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• 1:08:54Speaker 04

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• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  The Age of Innocence. Okay, it's a novel. I'm going to open the dossier here, guys, as we discuss this film. It's a novel written by Edith Wharton, who is an American woman. Who wrote books.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  And it was published, it's her eighth novel. It was published in 1921, and it won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction. She's the first woman to win it, but it is only the third or fourth year of the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction. So they're actually quite early on.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Then, good job, them.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  Well done, then.

• 1:11:10Speaker 00

  A much better track record than the Academy Awards.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  Oscars.

• 1:11:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  And she, in 1926, in a letter, said, I always thought The Age of Innocence would make a splendid film if done by anyone with brains and education.

• 1:11:23Speaker 00

  There was a silent, like, 20s version, right?

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  This is funny that she wrote this down because indeed, there had been a 1924 silent film that is now lost. So clearly, I think she's negging that version.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  She thought it was fine.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  It was brainless, I suppose.

• 1:11:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  In 1934, there's a sound version with Irene Dunne, which does exist and you can watch it, but it was a flop. And I think it's not considered very good. Edith Wharton then went ahead and died in 1937.

• 1:11:50Speaker 00

  Rude.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. You shouldn't have done that.

• 1:11:52Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  J. Cox. What was she thinking?

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  J. Cox, who is a film critic for Time Magazine in the 60s and a friend of Martin Scorsese.

• 1:12:00Speaker 00

  One of his best friends.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  Works with him many times, writes movies with him and so on and so forth. Pretty, you know, introduces Scorsese to John Cassavetes, who had the idea to call the movie Mean Streets.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  Works with him on Last Temptation and stuff, but they were mostly just buds, like they never had a big collaboration. But he gives him in 1980, gives him The Age of Innocence. He's like, I think you would like this book. Whenever you do like a costume movie or a romance or whatever you want to call it, I think this is the book for you. Marty's too busy. He's making Raging Bull, then he's making The King of Comedy, then he's off thinking about Christ and his temptations and all this and that.

• 1:12:41Speaker 00

  We should mention also J. Cox married to Verna Bloom, who's in After Hours and Last Temptation and was very instrumental in Mean Streets getting made. So he's, right, he's working with Verna more than he's working with Jay, but Jay is his bud.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  Yes, they're buds. Scorsese then goes on a lecture tour in Britain in 1987. Don't know why, but apparently he did that. And he said, maybe the atmosphere helped. And these British films like Room of the View, the sort of merchandise films are starting to take off. That genre was emerging.

• 1:13:11Speaker 00

  It was, it was bankable. You could get one of these made.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  And I crack open this book. I remember a big snowstorm. I was traveling around England and Scotland. And he thinks like that maybe had something to do with him falling in love with the book, but he gets very into it. But first, he's got to fucking make Last Temptation and Goodfellas. So it's not like he like jumped right on it.

• 1:13:31Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  But then he's still thinking about it and he would hang out with J. Cox once or twice a week. And they would kind of just chat about this book.

• 1:13:40Speaker 00

  What are you laughing at, Ben?

• 1:13:43Speaker 00

  His name is Cox?

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  Cox? Cox!

• 1:13:46Speaker 00

  It's spelled that way, too.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  And the thing is, it's spelled like the slang for penis, not with an X.

• 1:13:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:13:52Speaker 03

  But you know what? I feel like Jay probably had to, you know.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  I'm sure Jay.

• 1:13:56Speaker 00

  He took it on the chin.

• 1:13:58Speaker 03

  But it all worked out for him.

• 1:13:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:00Speaker 03

  Or maybe it didn't.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  He had a great career. Cox got hammered, yeah.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Maybe he's still mad about it.

• 1:14:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  And he's going to listen to this episode.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  I think if you have a name that's just a letter.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Cox.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  That makes the, the second name really stand out more. Like if you were like, you know, Hamish or Peter or something, then you wouldn't be thinking as, as much about J. Cox.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  What if your name was Lotsa?

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  Lotsa Cox?

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  Lotsa Cox.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  Lotsa Cox. Okay, I, I heard Laxa, like the Indonesian dish, and I was like.

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  What if his name was?

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Very strange joke by me.

• 1:14:27Speaker 00

  Big Harry.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  A thousand tiny. I'm just trying to think of the silliest modifier you could put in front of cock.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  So they are chatting and then finally they write a script together. 20th century Fox swoops in and buys the rights. They say they actually write the script, as you say, in about three weeks, pretty fast. But then Fox drops the project. I think it's gonna be too expensive. Scorsese has a universal deal. He produced The Grifters with them. They pass to also too expensive. Mark Canton has just taken over at Columbia. He'd worked with Scorsese at Warner Brothers. He picks it up at Columbia. And Scorsese's take on this book and this screenplay is the book rocks, why change it? He's very faithful down to the narrator.

• 1:15:20Speaker 00

  John Warren.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Yes, indeed, who we will talk about. He's attracted to the repressed emotions and the forced restraint and the obsession. If he wasn't, he'd hate this book. That's what's going on.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  Not much there for you otherwise.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  You know, the intensity, what he calls the sweet romantic pain. Nice way of putting it. Where a touch of the hand has to suffice for months. I mean, they do, they, you know, they make out a couple of times.

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  They probably are jacking it. We just don't know about that.

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Right. They don't show that.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Be funny if Edith Wharton's like, and then he jacked it.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  And then he jacked it.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  Then he went home and jacked it.

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  And then did it again.

• 1:15:55Speaker 02

  That's how much she loved her. He jacked off twice and like, didn't even take that bigger break in between.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  Just five minutes.

• 1:16:00Speaker 00

  Do we think Newland holds his pinky out when he jacks on?

• 1:16:05Speaker 00

  He's very, he's very precise.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  He's really, yeah.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  I just hope Marty doesn't listen to this episode. If he's gonna listen to a pod episode.

• 1:16:12Speaker 00

  This is the one.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  I just hope he doesn't listen to us desecrate his little romantic masterpiece, talking about jacking it in a thousand tiny cocks.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  Maybe he likes that stuff.

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  Maybe he does. Maybe he'd love it.

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Just because.

• 1:16:22Speaker 00

  Those guys are funny. I mean, they talk about cocks. Because we're doing this series for so long, it does feel like the risk is a little higher of our subject listening.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  He doesn't listen to fucking pod. He's busy. He's watching like beautiful restored, you know, Induit movies from the twenties or whatever he's up to. It is, you know, it's a great time.

• 1:16:40Speaker 00

  Have we shared this story that someone we know met Ethan Cohen and told him about our podcast?

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:16:47Speaker 00

  And his response was, so I guess everything's a podcast these days.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  Correct answer, Ethan Cohen.

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  So Scorsese, you know, he's very interested in all the etiquette and stuff, you know, it's a New York book. These points have been made. It's his most violent movie. It's a film about a different kind of New York mob. Yes, we've, we've made these jokes already, but you know, it's.

• 1:17:06Speaker 00

  They weren't jokes. They were prudent points.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Right. It's not, it's not crazy to, you know, to see what might excite him. He says he's also really into like, he's sick of three act storytelling. I would say he's kind of never been that into it.

• 1:17:19Speaker 00

  Yes, but maybe he's sick of even attempting.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  Exactly. He likes like, it's a fucking novel. I can like move it through this story as fast or slow as I want. Like, I don't need to worry about like, we need to hit this beat by the end of an act or whatever. Why are we using the term acts when the damn thing is a movie?

• 1:17:36Speaker 00

  Okay, I like that.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  I love theater, but theater is theater and movies are movies. They should be separate. We should talk about sequences. Usually you got five or six sequences broken into actions and scenes. You know, it's all very, so he wanted to make something that felt like filmic and literary, not staging.

• 1:17:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  And he wanted massive use of voiceover because I wanted to give the audience the impression I had while writing the book.

• 1:17:59Speaker 00

  Yes, reading, you mean?

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Reading the book.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  No, he's Edith Wharton, actually.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  I am Edith Wharton.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  He's like a time lord.

• 1:18:06Speaker 00

  I also feel like the narrator in this ends up feeling like another system of repression for them.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:18:13Speaker 00

  I, I think the way it is used and because it is so well performed and he gets such a legendary actor to do it. It does feel like this omniscient voice being like, know your fucking place. Stay in line.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  Obviously Marty loves a narrator. He uses narrators all the time. He's very like, he's like, I grew up watching like Kind Hearts Cornets, Julie Jim. I love narrators. They're the voice of the storyteller. I don't think it's like a tell versus show, you know, like I don't have a problem with that.

• 1:18:40Speaker 00

  Doing three act structure stuff. It's helpful if you're doing movies that are kind of from the POV of the one character living in their head. But this is an omniscient, third person narrator, but he doesn't do that much.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  A new thing for him to do that, but you know, I love that.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  Martin Scorsese signs on to do this movie. Jay Cox gets it. Now you guys are just so funny. You're just being so silly. Jay Cox. Just, this is Austin Powers joke. Just get it out of my system. Cox, Cox, Cox.

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  I think I have a Jay Cox card, don't I?

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 1:19:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Probably. Everyone else is like, Marty, you're doing a costume, you know, right? Like I walk in the streets, he's get, people are accosting him being like, why aren't you making a movie about a big gun that has a face?

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  A big gun that has a face?

• 1:19:30Speaker 00

  That was in Development Hell for most of the nineties. We got very close to making it a couple of times.

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  With the face.

• 1:19:35Speaker 00

  The gun with the face.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  You know, what's always stuck in my head is the brutality under the manners. People hide what they mean under the surface of language. In the subculture I grew up in, in Little Italy, when someone was killed, where there's a finality, it was usually done by the hands of a friend. You know, in New York society, they didn't have that. It was cold blooded. I don't know which is preferable. That's a, that's a Marty line.

• 1:19:58Speaker 00

  That's a good line.

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  Kind of fun.

• 1:19:59Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  He also, he loves genre movies, right? And he loves westerns and he loves crime, but it's like, he also grew up watching movies. So he's seen a ton of these kinds of movies and he wants to do his version of, you know, William Wyler's The Heiress is one of his favorite like costume dramas from like the golden age of Hollywood. Obviously he loves Siskomte's The Leopard, which is one of the great movies ever made, uh, which is kind of about a dying society. Like, it's like the leopard is like, this finery is ending, right? Like, you know, Italy is changing about, you know, it's mostly, have you seen The Leopard? It's one of my.

• 1:20:30Speaker 00

  Yes, of course.

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  The best.

• 1:20:31Speaker 00

  I just, I was deep in a thought for a second.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Oh, he's deep in thought?

• 1:20:34Speaker 00

  No, because you and I talk about, we love filmmakers of this stature, or not even of the stature, but the, the great filmmakers at whatever level they are. To some degree, you want to see them do the checklist of the major genres and movies.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Right. Make a western, make a space movie, whatever. Right.

• 1:20:51Speaker 00

  Is, is sci-fi the biggest thing Marty hasn't done?

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  I don't see him going to space.

• 1:20:55Speaker 00

  No, but that, that is the biggest outlier, right? He has been pretty thorough.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  I guess so. What, what else?

• 1:21:01Speaker 00

  Flower Moon was his version of a western.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  Sort of a western, that's true.

• 1:21:03Speaker 00

  He's made a musical.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  Do you like Marty? We didn't even ask you, Livy. It's sort of like, usually we do this, but with the guests on the Marty one, it's kind of like everyone's sort of far right with Marty.

• 1:21:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is the, the moment I'd been dreading where I have to.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  Announcing, never seen a Martin Scorsese film.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  No, not true, but I am kind of stupid about films.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  No, you're not.

• 1:21:22Speaker 02

  No, well, a little bit.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  You're charming and wonderful and so smart.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  I had, well, sure, but films, we all know that, but the, the film, the films is not where I.

• 1:21:34Speaker 01

  It's not your area of like, like passion, I feel.

• 1:21:37Speaker 02

  Basically, all of my film opinions are copied from my friend Brendan James. He has really introduced me to all of the good movies that I've watched and any. Yeah, you know, I, I've seen Goodfellas and I've seen Casino and those are both really good.

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  Not sure I've seen any of the others.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  What about this guy driving a taxi? Heard about this guy.

• 1:22:00Speaker 00

  He's really good at getting people to their destination.

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  Wait, is that sort of like an Uber? Just doing the like annoying millennial thing?

• 1:22:07Speaker 00

  Tomorrow.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  Uber driver.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  See, I haven't even sort of checked in with like, there was a wolf on Wall Street or, you know.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  Here's my problem.

• 1:22:15Speaker 00

  You haven't tried Silence?

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  I.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Not a lot of people tried that one, to be sure.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  I love watching movies, but once the movie ends, I forget that I enjoyed that experience.

• 1:22:25Speaker 00

  That's me in exercising. Yeah.

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  And then, yes, it's exactly like that. And then next time I sit down and I have choice of, all right, shall we watch a movie? Or do you want to watch this YouTube video of a guy playing a video game that you've already played? My, my, most of the time my brain wants to, wants quiet and not, not to be challenged. And I would love to get to a point where I understand that watching a movie is not challenging. It's nice. It's really good.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  It's just also, I want to splice you going like, most of the time I just want quiet to you then watching like a YouTube video of like Donkey Kong Country two, like going like. And you're like, ah, serenity.

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  Really? It is, it is kind of a little bit of the sort of modern ADHD type, you know, affliction that a lot of us have, but.

• 1:23:12Speaker 00

  There's a certain kind of a baseline of noise that becomes a quiet.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  Quiet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And actually watching a movie is a, is a level of concert, because I, I never want to be like watching a movie, but I'm just on my phone. Unless, unless it's like, I don't know, I'm, I'm putting on Shrek or something.

• 1:23:27Speaker 00

  Or the Emoji Movie and you're getting all this great inspiration of things you can text friends.

• 1:23:31Speaker 02

  Things I could put in my phone. Oh, I've seen these. They're on my phone. But no, I, I've gotten a lot better about movies, especially since moving to LA and it's very stupid. Movie town. I'll watch movies.

• 1:23:41Speaker 00

  California.

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  So I'm definitely catching up on the canon.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  Right. It's funny that you moved to LA not for, you know.

• 1:23:47Speaker 02

  Movie reasons.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. Film production reasons or whatever. You just moved because you like it there.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  I'm just a podcast.

• 1:23:52Speaker 00

  In and out.

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  Lousy with podcasts.

• 1:23:55Speaker 00

  They should call it Podcast Wood is what they should call it.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  Change the Hollywood sign.

• 1:23:59Speaker 00

  Potty Wood.

• 1:24:00Speaker 02

  Potty Wood.

• 1:24:00Speaker 00

  Potty, potty wood.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  Now, Daniel Day Lewis, just to give you a sense of the cast.

• 1:24:06Speaker 00

  Ben's close personal friend.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:07Speaker 00

  Good friend of mine. I call him Dan.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  Oh, cool. Does he like that?

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  Oh, right, because you're friends. Yeah.

• 1:24:14Speaker 00

  Libby, just to pull the curtain back, early on in the history of this podcast.

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's hear it.

• 1:24:19Speaker 00

  Daniel Day Lewis came up and Ben just casually referred to him as Dan Lewis. And we said, who the fuck are you talking about? He went, Dan Lewis, the actor.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  My guy, my, my, my main guy.

• 1:24:30Speaker 00

  So we just harangued him for that. And then the bit has become, of course, they're close friends, because who else would fucking call him Dan Lewis?

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  I do wonder if people call him Dan. Danny.

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  Danny.

• 1:24:41Speaker 00

  Danny Day.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Dan is.

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  Let me, let me confirm it for you. They do.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, they do, obviously. Yeah.

• 1:24:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  So Daniel Day Lewis doesn't really want to do a costume drama. He's done enough of those, in his opinion.

• 1:24:52Speaker 00

  It is what I find fascinating about this movie, is that Scorsese is one of his heroes.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:56Speaker 00

  Taxi driver is like as important to him as anything.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:00Speaker 00

  And he's just like, I got fucking offered to be the lead in a Martin Scorsese movie, and I'm playing to the manner born period drama. Like, he basically was like, this is the last time I'm ever fucking doing this, and I'm only doing this because it's Marty.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  That is sort of the vibe. He, you know, he had, he's in A Room of the View, which he's incredible in. He's no, apart from that, he hasn't really made a lot of costume dramas. Like Unbearable Lightness of Being is a period film, it's not a costume drama.

• 1:25:27Speaker 00

  He didn't make a lot of movies, and I think more than anything, he's turning down a lot of this stuff. There's a quote from him that I always think about.

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  I'm sure about being kind of like typecast as the British guy, right?

• 1:25:36Speaker 00

  There's a quote from him where he's like, I don't know what it, what it is. I don't know if it's my nose, but people just really want to put me in these kinds of costumes.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  He's got, he's got that face, doesn't he?

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  He does.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:47Speaker 00

  In this film in particular, being so clean shaven with the hair swept back, and so young, you're like, he's got like the most fascinating angles.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  See, this is where my.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  He do have fascinating angles.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  He's got, he's very sharp, yeah. This is where my lack of film expertise is kind of fun, because the only other movie I've seen him in, I think, is one of my top three movies, There Will Be Blood.

• 1:26:10Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  And that, I feel like is very.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  Quite different.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  It's quite different.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  And it's a different Daniel Day Lewis than Guy in these fancy coats, having a sharp face and going, ooh, I'm so pissed off, but I can't say it.

• 1:26:24Speaker 00

  I mean, it's the Daniel Day Lewis trademark, that he is one of the few guys who can successfully, quote unquote, completely transform, right?

• 1:26:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:31Speaker 00

  And I feel like he is not playing himself in this movie, obviously.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:26:35Speaker 00

  But this is the kind of performance where, if you didn't know better, you could assume they just got a guy with this exact temperament and voice.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:43Speaker 00

  Versus you watch There Will Be Blood, and you're like, who is this actor? And what do they really look like? You can tell it's a character, you know?

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  So, you know, he had won an Oscar in 1989 for My Left Foot. The only other movie he's made in between is The Last of the Mohicans.

• 1:26:58Speaker 00

  Big film.

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  For Michael Mann. A great film that was a hit, but obviously he plays a, a sort of, you know, a man in the forest in that one.

• 1:27:05Speaker 00

  The Last of the Mohicans.

• 1:27:07Speaker 01

  In a way.

• 1:27:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  So, uh, right, so he's, you know, he's sort of saying goodbye to the costume drama. Funnily enough, the other movie he made with Scorsese, Gangs of New York, is a costume drama of sorts, but it's a little different.

• 1:27:20Speaker 00

  Wants to do.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, he more wants to play.

• 1:27:22Speaker 00

  What if I had a mustache?

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  What if I'm a psychopath with a big hat?

• 1:27:25Speaker 00

  And knives.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  Anyway, he loves Marty, so he says, you know, for Marty, I'll do it.

• 1:27:32Speaker 00

  Right. But kind of only for Marty.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  He views his character, Newland Archer, as the bridge between two worlds.

• 1:27:39Speaker 00

  What a name.

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  Tension cables run right through me.

• 1:27:43Speaker 00

  Newland.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, Newland, Newland.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  No land.

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  Uh, to prepare for the role, he dressed up in 1870s clothes and stayed in an old Victorian hotel, and had a walking cane, and I'm sure it was very fucking annoying to deal with for everyone else.

• 1:27:54Speaker 00

  One of my favorite Daniel Day Lewis facts, which I feel like is rarely discussed, is that a big part of his process is smells. That he always develops a fragrance for his character, because he's like, I need to really feel like I'm, I'm not myself. But I don't think it's like he's brewing up a perfume. I, I'm like, does he come up with like a different BO? Like, I don't know what it is, but I just know, he basically, I think, finds, synthesizes whatever, like an essential oil anytime he does a movie.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Okay, so what's the smell of this movie then?

• 1:28:25Speaker 00

  This thing.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  Fucking like musty.

• 1:28:27Speaker 00

  Michael Jordan clone.

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be funny if it was like, just sexy. No, no, I don't, I don't know. Michelle Pfeiffer says, me and Winona would be like off giggling in corners all the time.

• 1:28:39Speaker 00

  About how handsome he was?

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  No, just like, I'm just worried we pissed him off, because we were being like, regular.

• 1:28:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  And Day Lewis, to his credit, and he is always up, whenever you ask him about this shit, he's not like, my process is incredible and I, everyone is wrong. He's like, I know I'm a bit annoying, you know, like.

• 1:28:56Speaker 02

  I'm busy with it, yeah.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Uh, but he says, like, I'm the pain in the neck. Winona used to be singing I Can't Say No from Oklahoma all the time. A performance I wouldn't miss for the world. Like, I don't want them to think that I was like, you know, pissed off that they were having fun.

• 1:29:10Speaker 00

  There's an interview that I think about a lot, uh, and I'm sure he's done many interviews where he's said things to this effect, but where they were trying to get him to break down his process, and he was like, look, first couple of movies I did, I felt like if I wasn't maintaining the accent in between takes, when I tried to turn it back on, it wouldn't be as good. So it's not a, I need you to lie to me and pretend that I'm the character and I'm.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  That's why Libby can't drop the accent.

• 1:29:35Speaker 00

  Exactly. You know, he obviously doesn't do the like, what's that sorcery over there? And point at a camera.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  This real demon is crossing the street.

• 1:29:45Speaker 00

  Like, some of that's overstated. It's more that when he's like, I want to make character choices.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's, he's physically embodying it.

• 1:29:53Speaker 00

  Hold on to them. I mean, I, can I share a really, really good story quickly?

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  Please.

• 1:29:57Speaker 00

  We had Jared Harris on George Lucas Talk Show, and we were asking him about Lincoln, where he played Ulysses S. Grant. And everyone, he was coming into the shoot late, and everyone was like, just, you know, obviously, it's a big thing for Daniel.

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  That's Abraham Lincoln over there, by the way.

• 1:30:11Speaker 00

  Right. He was like, Jared Harris really wanted that part, and he had to fight really hard to get it, because Daniel Day Lewis only wanted American actors around him. And he was like, it's not a maintaining a, a, a logic kind of thing. He was like, British actors are good traditionally at turning it on and off. And I don't want to be surrounded by guys who in between takes are going back to their natural speaking voice, because it's going to make me slip. So Jared Harris had to fight really hard and promise them, like, I'll maintain it, I'll be Ulysses S. Grant as much as possible.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  I'll be drunk as fuck the whole time.

• 1:30:46Speaker 00

  And he's like, we did some long shooting day, it was my first day, and you're not making any small talk with him. You know, he just kind of keeps to himself. And we rap, and they said, uh, Daniel, do you mind if Jared goes with you in the golf cart? If they drive you to trailers? Obviously, he's not like, what is this mechanical horse, right? So he's in the golf cart, and he's sitting there in silence, he's like, I probably shouldn't say anything, even though we've wrapped, I probably shouldn't say anything. And Daniel Day Lewis turns to him in full Lincoln getup, in Lincoln voice, and go, so what's gonna happen on the next season of Mad Men?

• 1:31:21Speaker 00

  And you're like, right, you can have a conversation with him. And he was like, everyone excited me out so much, and he was just like, so is the merger gonna stick?

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  Sterling Cooper, Draper Price.

• 1:31:33Speaker 00

  That's quite a big swing.

• 1:31:36Speaker 00

  That's the funniest shit in the world, right? But I think that's like one of the.

• 1:31:39Speaker 01

  Pam got that thing?

• 1:31:40Speaker 00

  It's one of the.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  He got that thing.

• 1:31:41Speaker 00

  The best distillations I've heard of what it's like to work with him.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:31:46Speaker 00

  And that similarly, he's like, you know, when I started out, I'd be like, I want to be buddy buddy with the crew, and stand by craft services and make jokes and whatever, and then I would find that I would lose energy. And 10 hours later, I think he's just so fucking hard on himself, that he was like, I don't want to do anything that could take away from the performance. And so it's more about like intense concentration and maintaining of shit.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  It's a very intense performance, in the sense that, yeah.

• 1:32:13Speaker 00

  Very good at playing intense people.

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. But like specifically, you know, thinking about like, the idea that he is like Loki a little bit pissed off that this is what he has to do, I feel like is really good energy for this, because he is Loki a little bit pissed off all the time.

• 1:32:29Speaker 00

  He's annoyed giving these people advice all the fucking time.

• 1:32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  He also just, Naffer explodes. And Daniel Day Lewis is very good at exploding if needed.

• 1:32:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  For example, if he's abandoned his boy.

• 1:32:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  Or drunk, drunk your milkshake.

• 1:32:44Speaker 00

  Uh-huh.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:32:45Speaker 00

  Or cloaked in immense power.

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  It, right, if he's cloaked in immense, cloaked in immense power. That movie's so good.

• 1:32:52Speaker 00

  If he's thinking about cinema Italiano.

• 1:32:54Speaker 01

  And, you know, maybe there's a world where you're watching this movie the fir-, you know, if you don't, like, wondering like, okay, when is he going to have his sort of third act, kind of like, I just want to fucking marry Michelle Pfeiffer, this sucks! Which now that I do that, I'm like, doesn't really feel like it would fit in the movie. One big emotional moment.

• 1:33:13Speaker 00

  I yell that into my mirror every single night.

• 1:33:16Speaker 02

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:33:16Speaker 00

  God, all I want to do is marry Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  And instead, I mean, my favorite thing about the movie is that Robert Sean Leonard at the end, spoiler, you know, is like, so dad, like, do you want to see her? I mean, you're only in your 50s, like, you guys probably have it. And he's just like, maybe. And then he's like, I'm thinking I was born into this straitjacket and will die in it. You know, like, he just is like, I'm gonna park my keister here, I just don't have the range.

• 1:33:40Speaker 00

  Stare longingly at the glint of the sun's reflection in her window and just collapse inside. And I remember the one time my life looked like a fucking painting.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  It's, uh, and he, yes, he can do it better than anyone. Now, uh, Winona Ryder, the great Winona Ryder. Marty describes her character, May, uh, one of my favorite literary characters, as a general. She's out there on the front line, fighting to make sure her way of society continues. You know, the whole thing with May, the whole Winona thing in this movie, and it worked for me the first time I watched this movie. Because I don't think I'd read the book yet. I can't. I just think the twist of just kind of like she's knows what's her head has been on a swivel this entire time.

• 1:34:18Speaker 00

  I really felt for it.

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  So masterful.

• 1:34:20Speaker 00

  Yep, agree.

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  And it's because of her.

• 1:34:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  Because she looks so cute and beautiful and she's Winona.

• 1:34:27Speaker 00

  Childlike.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  And we still associate her with her teen work and all that. But because she's a good actor.

• 1:34:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  And she's Winona Ryder and she does have a lot of, you know, you got a lot invested in Winona Ryder.

• 1:34:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  When, when the turn comes of she's just like, actually, I'm a master operator.

• 1:34:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  FYI.

• 1:34:42Speaker 00

  Knowing that.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  I'm fucking working. You're like, yep, no, 100%.

• 1:34:44Speaker 00

  Knowing that she was, this was her first nomination and she's the only not acting nomination this movie got at the Oscars. And I love Winona and this had been a blind spot for me. I'm sitting there watching this performance and going like, is this what I would call a passive aggressive Oscar nomination? Where I think there are cases sometimes where the Academy nominates someone who is seen as more of a celebrity than a serious actor. And the nomination feels like, we commend you doing something serious. Where I'm like, this is not her best performance. This is just, well, I'm saying until I got to the twist.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, sure, sure. You're wondering why, why was this her breakthrough with the Oscars or whatever?

• 1:35:23Speaker 00

  That they're just saying like, you did it. You spoke adult language in a movie that wasn't directed by Tim Burton. You know, and you looked like a grown up and you held your own against serious actors in a Martin Scorsese movie. And then I got to the twist and I was like, I 100% get this. She fucking nailed this. It's incredible. And then watching it the second time, the performance is that much better early on. When you can see the moves and the choices she's making.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I will say like, you know, watching this as a woman. The, the kind of power, the, being the sort of only kind of power you can really have. Uh, unless, unless you want to go Miriam Margoyles's mode and be kind of like eccentric aunt forever.

• 1:36:03Speaker 00

  We all would like to do that.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  I would, I would fucking love for that to be, uh, my path in life is to be going Miriam Margoyles's mode.

• 1:36:11Speaker 00

  Got the good chair and she just tells people whatever the fuck she thinks.

• 1:36:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But, and you know, unless you're able to do that, then what she does is absolutely like the right sort of thing for her to do. And the, the power of that to essentially trick a man.

• 1:36:28Speaker 02

  To trick a man, um, into thinking that she's this, you know, idiot, a simpering idiot.

• 1:36:34Speaker 01

  Right. That she's just a pleasant, you know, uh, comely lady who will.

• 1:36:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  Do what's expected or whatever.

• 1:36:40Speaker 00

  It is funny. Ben and I.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  I mean, she, she tricks him into thinking like that when she was like, hey, do you like the Countess? And he was like, no, I don't. She was like, okay. Yeah. And he was just like, crisis diffuse. I've bought, she's, she's totally like, and then instead she's like, hmm, I better devote most of my time to making sure the Countess doesn't horn you on my shit.

• 1:36:58Speaker 00

  Ben and I are sitting there at the Paris Theater. Michelle Pfeiffer comes on screen and we're both just like, Jesus fucking Christ. I think I, I genuinely might've whispered to you, you just forget that she's the hottest person who ever lived, right?

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  Michelle P?

• 1:37:13Speaker 00

  Michelle P.

• 1:37:13Speaker 01

  She's pretty gorgeous.

• 1:37:14Speaker 00

  And then as the movie is continuing and he can't get his shit together and everything's getting complicated. Ben's like, the fuck dude, just get together with Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  Back fumble. Yeah.

• 1:37:24Speaker 00

  And I whispered to Ben, it's funny that this movie is setting up a dynamic where you're not even considering that the quote unquote, the thing he's settling for is 90s Winona Ryder.

• 1:37:35Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:37:36Speaker 00

  And that is in the performance that Winona's not doing the stuff that made her like the most obvious captivating sort of Gen X figure. She's playing it so kind of seemingly head in the clouds. That beyond just like the physical beauty of Michelle Pfeiffer, you're also just like, this woman fucking gets it. This person cuts through the bullshit and Winona's like cloaked in immense bullshit.

• 1:38:00Speaker 02

  I think one of my favorite bits is when he says he needs to go to Washington because he wants to see Michelle Pfeiffer. And, uh, she, you know, he starts to explain, he starts to, you know, essentially lie and be like, oh, this is patent case before the Supreme Court. Gives too many details, by the way. Classic thing you shouldn't do.

• 1:38:18Speaker 00

  Like sitcom shit.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  And she's like, oh, this sounds too complicated for me. Um, I don't, I need you to not say this. And then like a couple of scenes later, his lie starts to, uh, unfurl and she remembers every fucking thing he said. And she pretends, she's like, oh, right. Okay. Hmm. That makes sense. But you know, she, she, she knows it doesn't make sense. She knows it doesn't make sense. That's so good.

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  What do you think she does? Like, you know, what does she do?

• 1:38:43Speaker 00

  Mostly videos on YouTube.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  Right. You know, it's like, do you embroider and just kind of like stew on like this week's conversation?

• 1:38:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  Just doing some fucking embroidery and being like Countess Olinska.

• 1:38:55Speaker 00

  I truly.

• 1:38:56Speaker 01

  Get her ass.

• 1:38:56Speaker 00

  I feel like these people just often just sat and looked out a window, but the other answer is.

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  I think you would see people, people come over, right?

• 1:39:03Speaker 00

  You're like, you're also like having like classes and stuff, like you're being taught high society.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  You learn to play the piano and you learn to.

• 1:39:11Speaker 00

  You have people who are teaching you literature or history or whatever it is. I mean, it's all these things that became like finishing school.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  The thing about the Gilded Age stuff, the, which it's such an interesting, you know, anything set in like Victorian London, but you know, so much British literature. It's the, the Austin, the Dickens, you know, like where it's just like.

• 1:39:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  You know, we went to see our neighbor who of course lives 20 miles that away.

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:36Speaker 01

  And so going there.

• 1:39:37Speaker 00

  Takes a couple of months.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Stay for a week or whatever, right? It's a whole to do.

• 1:39:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  This, there is a little bit more. And of course on HBO's wonderful, The Gilded Age, which I'm obsessed with, which is kind of like silly, The Age of Innocence, right? The Age of Innocence with a little bit more. Oh, it's really fun.

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  That sounds great.

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  Yes. I mean, this movie begins with an opera performance, uh, as you guys may have remembered. And that is the same thing that is in the season two of The Gilded Age where Carey Kuhn's character is like, I don't like the opera, like the, the opera house because they won't let me in because I'm new money. I'll make my own fucking opera. And she fucking made the Met. Like her character.

• 1:40:15Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  Like made the Met as like a rival and they got like the fanciest opera singer from Europe to come perform. She kind of like, you know, wrote a blank check. Yes.

• 1:40:24Speaker 00

  Is this, is this a true?

• 1:40:25Speaker 01

  It's real. It's about the opera wars.

• 1:40:27Speaker 00

  Founded based on spite.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  Yes, 100%. And she drove the original opera, which is called like, whatever, the New York opera, I can look it up, into the ground and made the Met supreme. Because like Lady Bleecker wasn't nice to her, you know, at tea.

• 1:40:43Speaker 00

  That's.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  This is, you know, these, it's, America adds just this kind of like intense ruthlessness. Into, and into this kind of Victorian mix a little bit. And these people are coming in who are like, well, I own one billion railroads. Let me come to tea. And everyone's like, well, we have rules. And it's like, yeah, but you have like 40 year old rules because this country is new.

• 1:41:06Speaker 00

  I think you're right.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  It's like Britain where they'd be like, we've been doing this for a thousand years.

• 1:41:10Speaker 00

  There's something, the fresh start nature of it was immediately met with an impatience.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  Right, yes.

• 1:41:15Speaker 00

  Of like, if I don't fucking move fast, someone else is going to beat me to this.

• 1:41:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:41:19Speaker 00

  I'm not fucking waiting around.

• 1:41:21Speaker 02

  Right. And also just, I think a sense that like, that stuff just simply couldn't last here in the way that.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:27Speaker 02

  Has and will last in the UK. Yeah.

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  Right. And in the UK, the tradition is, it's all they, all we've got, all they've got.

• 1:41:33Speaker 02

  Oh, it's absolutely all they've got. Yeah. No, and it's ridiculous.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  What were you gonna say, Ben?

• 1:41:37Speaker 03

  It's just funny that everyone escaped that.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:40Speaker 03

  Class system.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:41Speaker 03

  And then immediately just started their own.

• 1:41:44Speaker 01

  But just this little layer, you know, it's like, the thing about this is like, most people in America are doing other stuff.

• 1:41:50Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:41:51Speaker 01

  It's just these like ultra riches who are like, shouldn't we be like Europe? That's how rich people do it, right?

• 1:41:56Speaker 00

  They also feel like if they surrender that, then what are they? Who are they? They don't have skills.

• 1:42:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:01Speaker 00

  Right? The only thing they've been taught is how to maintain this sort of class.

• 1:42:05Speaker 01

  Skills. They can be mean.

• 1:42:06Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  They know where forks go.

• 1:42:08Speaker 03

  Beautiful handwriting.

• 1:42:10Speaker 02

  This is true. Yeah. I love, no, I love any handwriting scene in this movie. No, it reminds me of when we did, um, the episode about afternoon tea with Ali Beardsley. Um, I looked up some early 20th century etiquette books for a game about etiquette that we did. And it is funny how, um, I would be for a while reading one and then realize it was an American one written for Americans. But it was so like consciously and often explicitly being like, well, this is what they do in England. So you guys need to, you need to be doing this stuff.

• 1:42:43Speaker 00

  We're just gonna do like a lightly modified version of that.

• 1:42:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it is fascinating. But you know, also I think like, I don't think that, you know, there was any degree to which people were trying to escape class politics when, you know, I don't, I don't think the, uh, the founders of the United States were, uh, were really, uh, into that.

• 1:43:01Speaker 00

  Well, because it's also like, if you admit that all of that is bullshit and a construct, then what have you been doing with your life up until that point?

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, absolutely.

• 1:43:11Speaker 00

  You know, the only people who wanted to destroy it are the people who've never been led into it, which makes sense and is good and right.

• 1:43:18Speaker 01

  Just another episode of The Gilded Age focuses on how some people would set the table the English way. And some of the new money people are trying to set the table a new way. And there's like a butler war over it.

• 1:43:28Speaker 00

  What does that mean?

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  I don't, I mean, they tell you in the episode, but it's like, you know, the fucking spoon goes over here and they're like, never would we put, the Queen would not demand the spoon. You know how you set the table for parties? Oh, I love all that shit. It's so good.

• 1:43:41Speaker 02

  So annoying.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  To what? To operate in a minute by minute way? Yes.

• 1:43:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know what? One thing, this is a kind of a sideways approach to it, but, um, I, I get a lot of migraines. And, uh, I read a really interesting history book about migraine called Migraine History by Catherine Foxall. And, um, there's some interesting stuff in there about how, uh, before, I don't remember exactly when, like the 17th, 18th century, maybe. Migraine wasn't seen in the way that it has been seen for the last, I don't know, century here. As, uh, an annoying affliction of annoying women. Um, you know, like it was, it was taken sort of seriously. And you know, they didn't know what the fuck to do with it. It was like, oh, you know, to stick a rabbit's ass to your head or whatever. Which was, you know, every, every bit of medicine back then. But then there was a shift

• 1:44:30Speaker 02

  where migraine in England started to be seen as associated with rich French people. Um, and this, this disease of

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  All my editors are

• 1:44:40Speaker 02

  Oh, my, so earth, I need to lie down.

• 1:44:44Speaker 01

  The lights, they flash.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  Um, and, you know, seen as this thing that was, well, yeah, you have migraines because you've got nothing else going on.

• 1:44:53Speaker 01

  Malaise.

• 1:44:54Speaker 02

  You don't have any real problems.

• 1:44:56Speaker 01

  If I am a doctor, right in that age, I might be like, you guys might need to like go outside more.

• 1:45:01Speaker 02

  So easy.

• 1:45:02Speaker 00

  Chronic case of being fucking lazy, just mental piece of shit.

• 1:45:05Speaker 01

  You're stressing too much out about your fucking where to put your forks and like, maybe, you know, like you need some other product diversions here.

• 1:45:12Speaker 02

  But it makes me think about like,

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  Didn't people also just read the tiniest little books by like a candle? Like, that was probably bad for their heads.

• 1:45:19Speaker 00

  Should have made the books big.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  Why are they so small?

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, just make them big. What's the big deal?

• 1:45:22Speaker 00

  Just make them big.

• 1:45:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But it makes me think about like, you know, how many people, and especially, you know, women of this time had those sorts of like, conditions that were like, well, she's nervous. She has nervous temperament. She's weak. She's fainting. She's

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  Needs to get her couches.

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think migraine for a long time was kind of lumped in as one. It was literally seen as like a nervous complaint. And then, you know, there's a whole like, body of literature about, you know, the migraine personality that comes along in the mid 20th century about, you know, like, oh, certain types of people get migraines. And it's like annoying women. It's like women who need to chill the fuck out, which, you know, I am one of those. Um, but, you know, I kind of think about like, if I'm a woman and I'm trying to survive in this stuffy ass, like 1890s, New York or whatever, then yeah, I probably would make up a bunch of migraines to get out of shit. You know, like, wouldn't you do that? Or wouldn't your migraines become then an expression of this sort of pressure that you're feeling? You know, the anxieties that we have in the modern age of like, oh, there's too many emails on my phone or whatever. It's like,

• 1:46:19Speaker 00

  You're being judged in everything. Like this movie does such a good job of setting that up immediately of the gossip network of all these people being like,

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  It's a great opening. Yes.

• 1:46:28Speaker 00

  What she fucking did.

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:46:30Speaker 00

  And the whole major crux of this film, we should say, the basic plot of this movie is that Michelle Pfeiffer is a woman whose husband cheated on her.

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:46:39Speaker 00

  She then had

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  Philanderer, the count.

• 1:46:41Speaker 00

  An affair in retaliation.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:46:43Speaker 00

  But that is something that would stick to her reputationally more than her husband cheating on her.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  Well, it's like Because woman.

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  Right. He's allowed to philander. I mean, the unspoken thing is, and so she should just have not been annoyed by that. And instead, right, she brought scandal onto their household.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  She should have been Winona Ryder about it.

• 1:47:01Speaker 00

  Right. Exactly. She could possibly survive a divorce, but not the knowledge of what led to the divorce.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  The, the big thing, right in the middle of this movie is that when she's like, you know what? I'm going to divorce the count. The count says like, well, then I will tell everyone you had an affair. And that will ruin you, you know, untold many, you know, much more than it would ruin me.

• 1:47:18Speaker 00

  Dan Day Lewis, uh, Newland Archer is assigned to work on her account. She is one of his cousins.

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  He's a gentleman lawyer, which

• 1:47:26Speaker 00

  Bring it back.

• 1:47:28Speaker 01

  Uh, no, but, you know, but it is, I mean, gentleman as modifier is funny to think about.

• 1:47:35Speaker 00

  A gentleman's sex.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  Really? Where it's like, someone comes up and it's like, I'm murdered. Someone in the streets like, ah, ha, ha, ha. I'm a gentleman lawyer. I advise people who counts on their affairs, not, uh, any of your street crimes or whatever.

• 1:47:47Speaker 00

  He's a fixer of his time.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely. He's like a guy who will tell you how to behave.

• 1:47:52Speaker 00

  Right. And a bit of a, a PR spin guy.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  I guess so. But in like the

• 1:47:56Speaker 02

  None of what he does.

• 1:47:57Speaker 01

  Obnoxious way.

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  None of what he does in the movie is law. It's like, this would be a bad idea for you to do. Not because of anything to do with the legality of any of it, but like, honey, what are you thinking?

• 1:48:05Speaker 00

  The value of your social standing.

• 1:48:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  I, I will say, especially if you read the book, which was written in the twenties, the book is about the fact that this age has ended. Like, and, and the point of the ending, which Scorsese hints at in the movie, but like, is very pronounced in the book is like, Newland's son has married, is marrying the daughter of Stuart Wilson's character, like one of the, and like, there's the earlier scene where Richard E. Grant is like, talking about the illegitimate daughters, like so disdainfully. And it's like, by the time Newland has kids that are grown up, all of those, oh, it's all gone. No one gives a shit about this anymore.

• 1:48:38Speaker 00

  It was for nothing.

• 1:48:38Speaker 01

  Of course, there's some high society and there's still like, but like, all this stuffiness erodes so fast. And it's like, you know, Wharton is parodying and commenting on just like a kind of a single generation, like, and why were they like this?

• 1:48:51Speaker 00

  I mean, it's, uh,

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  And it's why Newland can't

• 1:48:53Speaker 00

  Rules of the Game.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:48:54Speaker 00

  It feels very indebted to that of like, everyone dancing, not aware that like, the world beneath them is catching on fire.

• 1:49:00Speaker 01

  But that's different though, because Rules of the Game is about, right, is about, you know, the rise of fascism and all that. And like, and that's, you know, if you, you know, Great Gatsby or any, anything set in the jazz age.

• 1:49:09Speaker 00

  Threat that is creeping, but it's similarly a movie very, about people very caught up in their bullshit, not aware of how soon it's going to be made irrelevant.

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  It, but right. It's like, it's more just kind of like, I mean, and the tragedy and the beauty of this movie is just like, Newland, go talk to her. And he's like, I can't, sorry.

• 1:49:24Speaker 00

  He's in love with Michelle Pfeiffer because she seems like the one person who exists in like, a

• 1:49:28Speaker 01

  She's got some emotion almost. And she's just an emotional person.

• 1:49:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:49:33Speaker 01

  And that just makes her stand out.

• 1:49:35Speaker 02

  Okay. This is something that I was thinking, watching the movie, I was like, okay, why do they actually like each other? Like, how, there's so little really to establish, like, sort of substantively their romance, other than like, he sees a, she's hot. He, like, she sees him, he's hot. And they kind of go, oh, yes, I remember you. Yes. I remember when you kissed me behind the curtain. And then they have this one conversation where, like you say, there's just a bit of realness to it. It's like, oh, this guy's a bit of a twat, isn't he?

• 1:50:04Speaker 00

  That's all, that's all he needs.

• 1:50:07Speaker 02

  That's all, that's the, the whole of their romance. Like, and you're supposed to believe that they, you know, and you do believe that they are driven completely insane by their inability to have each other after, you know, the entirety of their romance being like, huh, that guy, eh?

• 1:50:20Speaker 00

  And I, I think

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  And that's enough.

• 1:50:22Speaker 00

  I think it's the clenched quality of what you're talking about, what metaurally helps of Dan Day Lewis being a little bit at odds, playing this guy in this kind of movie, is she senses, this guy's bristling at the structures as well. As much as he is professionally upholding them, I see in him a sort of shakiness. There's some kind of like tremor within him of like, the claustrophobia.

• 1:50:47Speaker 02

  Yes. And those scenes where like, you know, he'll be at dinner with his family and they're talking about like, well, we've got to go to this thing. Oh, we can't really decline this invitation or whatever. And he's the only one being like, I don't know what, what are you talking about?

• 1:50:58Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 1:50:58Speaker 02

  I don't care. But they'll, they're all so happy to just be like, well, obviously that's it. Okay.

• 1:51:04Speaker 00

  That's how they entertain themselves.

• 1:51:05Speaker 02

  This bitch is doing that thing again, you know?

• 1:51:07Speaker 01

  But wouldn't it rock to send your regrets if you lived with me? You know what I mean? Where it's like, hey, we have to go to this wedding. It's a fucking new point. I'm like, mm, we're going to send our regrets to that one.

• 1:51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. We'll be sending our regrets.

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  We're taking that weekend off, baby. We ain't going.

• 1:51:20Speaker 00

  We're gonna take the R on that one.

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  We'll send very, we'll send some very nice old lace. Oh, they'll love it. It's gonna, the whole, us sending our regrets, it'll mean something and they'll, they'll puzzle over it for a year.

• 1:51:32Speaker 02

  I'm going to be declining some podcast invitations by saying, no, I'll be, I'm actually traveling with an aunt. I'm sending my regrets, traveling with an aunt. Um.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  Just like, I mean, any of these books, uh, and the, you know, that also always have the Marion Margulies character. There's always one person in this society where they're like, kind of like, well, I'm old and loud and rich.

• 1:51:55Speaker 00

  Some Merrill and little women.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  Widowed, or I'm, you know, whatever.

• 1:51:59Speaker 02

  I don't give a shit anymore. Yeah.

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  Outside of society in some way, but still atop it.

• 1:52:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  And so I get to be a bit of a truth teller, you know, amongst all this, which is so vital to these stories. Because otherwise, no one would ever say anything. And then you'd just be going crazy.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  Um, but no, yeah. So we have beautiful Saul Bass logo, uh, title design, one of the, one of his later, and you know, like near the end of his career.

• 1:52:20Speaker 00

  With his wife, working together.

• 1:52:22Speaker 01

  Uh, it's like these time lapses of flowers. Uh, they, they worked on Goodfellas and Cape Fear. I think they also do Casino. Casino has got the very cool opening titles with the explosion and all that. Scorsese sent the first 40 minutes of the movie to Saul and Alain Bass. Uh, so it began with the opera sequence. And he just, they immediately were just like, we're going to open on flowers. Uh, the, the text is from a book of etiquette of that period, the font, superimposed over the images. And then we're going to cut right to the Faust overture. That was their idea. Uh, Winona Ryder, just want to shout her out. Uh, she got the role while she was shooting Dracula?

• 1:52:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  Dracula.

• 1:53:00Speaker 00

  Which it just like a snapshot of how powerful Winona Ryder was at this moment. And it's a little akin to like, when Jennifer Lawrence explodes or whatever, where the whole industry is just like, can you power everything for a decade? Coppola so badly wants her to do Godfather Part Three, she drops out. And dropping out of that as a mea culpa, she's like, what about we do Dracula? She's the one who gets Coppola to want to do it. Like, all of the seventies movie brats who now have become the elder statesmen are tripping over themselves to work with Winona Ryder, because it just feels like, this is a rare element. Not only is she such a big star at the center of the culture, but also she's a really good actor.

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  Winona, basically, her memory of making this movie, she was really stressed out the whole time. Uh, you know, she feels like she was annoying Daniel Day Lewis, you know, who's deep in his thing.

• 1:53:53Speaker 00

  This is the other reason I make this point. She was under a tremendous amount of observation.

• 1:53:58Speaker 01

  Sure. Yeah. She was, she's famous.

• 1:54:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:54:01Speaker 01

  You know, in this, right, in this special way. Uh, she, basically, the way she puts it is like, she goes to see the movie at the premiere. She's with her mom and I think her grandma.

• 1:54:10Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:54:11Speaker 01

  Like it's, and then she watches the movie and she's just like, oh, this like rocks and I'm grading it. Like, like, it's, you know, like, and she was like so proud of it.

• 1:54:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  Right. Like, well, it's just like one of those things where you, you don't really know, right?

• 1:54:23Speaker 00

  You don't know.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  You're seeing it.

• 1:54:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:54:24Speaker 01

  Uh, and, you know, yeah, it's just, it was very overwhelming for her, but really great. Um, Scorsese cast Pfeiffer not because of Dangerous Liaisons, which is obviously another costume drama she had done relatively recently. He loved her in Married to the Mo.

• 1:54:40Speaker 00

  Hell.

• 1:54:40Speaker 01

  The Jonathan Hemme film.

• 1:54:41Speaker 00

  Makes sense.

• 1:54:42Speaker 01

  Which I think you would enjoy, Libby, if you ever watch it. Even though it was comedy, she did with such truth to her character, I thought she was really someone from Queens. High praise from Martin Scorsese. Marion Margulies, at that point, best known as a British stage actor. And, you know, she read the book and she's like, she's got an idea of the character. And she asks Marty, shall I be more serious? And he said, absolutely not. I want her to bubble.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:07Speaker 01

  She's wearing a bodysuit that they kind of button her into. So she's kind of like stuck on the couch. It's kind of like a Jabba the Hutt thing, except she's inside of it. You know what I mean? Where it's just like kind of fused to the furniture.

• 1:55:19Speaker 00

  She's like a horse slughorn.

• 1:55:21Speaker 01

  And then, of course, now, I don't know if you guys know this.

• 1:55:23Speaker 00

  Nothing for that.

• 1:55:25Speaker 01

  That was great. Yes, he's.

• 1:55:26Speaker 00

  Do you remember when Jim Broadbent? He's a chair and he turns into Jim Broadbent?

• 1:55:30Speaker 01

  That's right. In Harry Potter.

• 1:55:33Speaker 00

  Good image.

• 1:55:33Speaker 01

  Six. You know, it is good.

• 1:55:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:55:35Speaker 01

  It's good.

• 1:55:36Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  If nothing else, he was an armchair.

• 1:55:38Speaker 00

  I like that. Armchair with a face.

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  Good point.

• 1:55:40Speaker 01

  I know. It's the Harry Potter thing. I'm just kind of trying to dodge on past it.

• 1:55:45Speaker 00

  I'm not crediting J K Rowling for the idea of. A chair turns into a man.

• 1:55:50Speaker 02

  Chairman.

• 1:55:50Speaker 00

  The chairman.

• 1:55:51Speaker 02

  The chairman.

• 1:55:52Speaker 00

  I'm crediting Jim Broadbent for wearing the hell out of that chair.

• 1:55:55Speaker 02

  Being a chair. Yeah, no, for sure. No, I'm just, I'm really thrilled anytime a Harry Potter thing comes up that I don't know. Cause I was such a.

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  As was I.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  Such a Potter head.

• 1:56:04Speaker 00

  And you burned it out of your brain?

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  And I'm, yeah, well, burned and also it's just falling out. It's starting to leave. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm so glad for that.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  I know. I know. I have kids and I wonder how's that all gonna go? And are they gonna discover, you know what? I don't know. I'll cross that bridge later.

• 1:56:19Speaker 00

  Ben and I hung out with our friend Leslie Hadland, past and future guest, the other night. And we were talking about Leslie was like, I, I'm done fighting this like elder millennial thing versus Gen X thing. And that part of the issue that we were all drilling down into is like millennial is way too fucking big a tent. Down to the, the younger versus elder.

• 1:56:39Speaker 03

  Of course, now I forget the years.

• 1:56:41Speaker 00

  It was 15 years. When you looked it up, it's defined.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  Is classically millennial.

• 1:56:46Speaker 00

  I think it was maybe 81 to 96, something like that. But she was just like, there are these things you can point to like Harry Potter, where you're just like, where you were born in the millennial range means you have an entirely different relationship to Harry Potter.

• 1:57:01Speaker 01

  Right. Were you too old for it, the right age?

• 1:57:02Speaker 00

  Which means you can't be of the same generation as someone who like.

• 1:57:06Speaker 03

  As an older millennial, Harry Potter was not a thing for me at all.

• 1:57:10Speaker 00

  And that's the difference of like two years for Ben.

• 1:57:12Speaker 03

  I was born 85.

• 1:57:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:57:15Speaker 01

  I was born 86. He was huge for me. I think you also just had different perspective. You know, you were like, you had different interests.

• 1:57:21Speaker 02

  He was a grown up is the thing is that he didn't like baby stuff. Ben didn't like baby stuff, but David still liked baby stuff.

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  The first Potter book came out when I was 11.

• 1:57:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you have to remember something.

• 1:57:30Speaker 01

  I know. I know.

• 1:57:31Speaker 00

  So it would have come out two years later for Ben.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:57:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was, I was like, I'm not into this wizard shit.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  But this is that, I think there was that too.

• 1:57:40Speaker 02

  I thought I was like that.

• 1:57:42Speaker 00

  Versus 13, who knows?

• 1:57:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I was born in 90 and I think that I remember when it first came out, I was like, wizard stuff. And this is while I'm playing Ocarina of Time every day, but I was like.

• 1:57:54Speaker 01

  What do you think of the remake?

• 1:57:55Speaker 02

  I'm very excited. I just got the text about it and I'm very excited about it.

• 1:57:58Speaker 03

  Wait, what's the remake?

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  They just remade it for the Switch, Ocarina, like properly.

• 1:58:02Speaker 03

  Oh, cool. Okay.

• 1:58:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  Might be cool. Might be cool.

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  It could be cool. I'll play it. I'll eat that garbage for sure.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  I'll keep drinking that garbage for sure.

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. But yeah, I remember initially being like, I'm too old for this baby stuff. And then our teacher read it out to us at school and I was like, this is so fucking good. What was I talking about? But I think I was basically. By the time.

• 1:58:23Speaker 03

  Hagrid.

• 1:58:24Speaker 02

  Hagrid is so cool. By the time the last book came out, I was the same year as Harry Potter. Like it came out the final year of high school for me.

• 1:58:31Speaker 01

  I was right. I was 11 when the first book came out where he's 11 and I, I was with him in age for the first four.

• 1:58:37Speaker 02

  The range is like, yeah.

• 1:58:38Speaker 01

  And then she started taking longer because she had to get angrier while she wrote them or whatever.

• 1:58:43Speaker 00

  I had the same thing and I stopped reading after four.

• 1:58:45Speaker 01

  Age a little bit. Right. I did read them, but I was less passionate because, right. Marion Margulies, this is a story from her that might stun you guys, because I don't know if you guys know this is sort of a secret. She's a bit of a ribald sort of character.

• 1:58:56Speaker 00

  Loose lips. In terms of what she says, I should make that clear. Yeah.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  You know, her character, this, this costume, this thing, this, you know, that she's in, she has to start at six in the morning. She was the last person, you know, on set at the end of the day. So I did what I often do to show my appreciation. I'm quoting her. I made a small speech. I said, I was very grateful because they've been so kind to stay so late. And so the best thing I could do to show my appreciation is to show you my breasts. So I did. It cheered them up no end. I think most crew are breast people. That's from a 1993 interview with Marion Margulies, who just never changed. She just fucking every three months goes on Graham Norton and it's like, Graham's like, Miriam. And she's like, so, and you're like, here she goes again.

• 1:59:39Speaker 00

  Let's also, to bring it back full circle, she of course played Professor Sprout in the Harry Potter movies.

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:59:44Speaker 00

  And now, like every British actor who's in Harry Potter is asked, what do you think about J K Rowling and her beliefs? And her response was, why are people still into this? They should grow the fuck up.

• 1:59:54Speaker 01

  She's got the kind of the blunt, like, stop fucking talking to me about this. I don't care.

• 1:59:59Speaker 00

  Queer woman. She was not, you know, equivocating on, on the trans issues at all. But she was also just like, I can't believe this is a fucking debate. Throw the books in the garbage. Who gives a shit? We're grownups.

• 2:00:11Speaker 01

  I mean, she played a more minor character and clearly right to not particularly care at all about her.

• 2:00:17Speaker 00

  Some teacher with a magical plant or some bullshit.

• 2:00:19Speaker 01

  Herpolo, she's Professor Sprout. Let's be, you know, it's all relaxed, head of Hufflepuff. It's all still in there. A lot of it's still in there.

• 2:00:28Speaker 03

  I fuck with Dobby though.

• 2:00:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, Ben loves Dobby.

• 2:00:30Speaker 01

  Loves Dobby.

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  Utterly insane. Utterly insane pull for that to be your guy.

• 2:00:35Speaker 00

  He watched it for the first time right before J K Rowling self-immolated and was like, Dobby rules. And we were like, Dobby's the kind of shit you usually complain about.

• 2:00:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:00:45Speaker 03

  There's just something about him.

• 2:00:47Speaker 01

  Hey, man, he's a, you know, he's a working class dude.

• 2:00:50Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:00:50Speaker 01

  He's trying to organize down there in the kitchen or whatever.

• 2:00:52Speaker 02

  Surprisingly leftist. Yeah.

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, he is. Hits himself in the head, which maybe he should cut it out. Yeah. By the end of the books, he's kind of like, I'm not hitting myself in the head anymore. It's like, good job, Dobby.

• 2:01:01Speaker 02

  Just gonna get killed instead.

• 2:01:03Speaker 01

  Right, then I'm dead.

• 2:01:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  Bury me in a hole.

• 2:01:04Speaker 03

  Which is so sad.

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  It is. Sure. Yeah.

• 2:01:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was pretty sad. Yeah.

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:01:10Speaker 00

  He's not a hero though.

• 2:01:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:11Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:01:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:12Speaker 01

  I guess so.

• 2:01:14Speaker 00

  And then if you ask him in interviews, he's like, grow the fuck up.

• 2:01:26Speaker 06

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• 2:02:05Speaker 01

  So the film costs about $32 million, which is a lot, but like Scorsese is kind of like, given the sort of scale of everything, like we had to be pretty, you know, economical about things. It's mostly shot on locations, you know, they find cool places to do, they don't shoot much coverage. Marty, you know, pre-plans everything very well. And so, you know, most of the interiors they find, Manhattan, Brooklyn, in the Bronx. Griffin just sent a picture of Marion Margulies holding up a Mandrake.

• 2:02:35Speaker 00

  And looking very happy.

• 2:02:36Speaker 02

  She's great. You know what her iconic role is for me is the one episode of Blackadder that she's in.

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  Oh, she's so fucking good in that episode.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  Fucking funny in that episode. God.

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  Blackadder, you know, it, it's a big deal in America at, at all, Griff, or, you know, like, but nothing like Britain, but you know, it's got some.

• 2:02:54Speaker 00

  But I feel like I grew up with that being one of the few British comedies that was like, this is available on VHS. We know this is good. This is like Fawlty Towers.

• 2:03:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, Monty Python. It's, it's Monty Python for people born, you know, 10 years after that.

• 2:03:07Speaker 00

  This still airs on PBS every other night.

• 2:03:09Speaker 01

  Do you mean when she plays White Adder or when she plays, yeah, White Adder is the one. Cause like, she's also the infanta in the first season of Blackadder, but the first season of Blackadder is rubbish.

• 2:03:17Speaker 02

  I never watched that. Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:03:18Speaker 01

  Seasons two to four is the.

• 2:03:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, when she, when she plays the Puritan aunt.

• 2:03:22Speaker 01

  Right. White Adder. Funny.

• 2:03:24Speaker 02

  Unbelievable. Unbelievable role.

• 2:03:27Speaker 01

  You know, some of the stuff they do that in my opinion is pretty cool fading to colors. You know, rather than fade to black, Marty was like, I want to fade to red. I want to fade to yellow.

• 2:03:35Speaker 00

  A lot of yellow.

• 2:03:36Speaker 01

  Be rich.

• 2:03:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:03:38Speaker 01

  You know, Black Narcissus does a fade to orange, rear window has some effects like that. I was sort of imitating that. You know, just to indicate like this sort of strong emotions, like underneath, right? Like have it in the visuals rather than in the performances. Obviously the incredible moment when he reads the letter from, you know, from the countess and the lights all go out.

• 2:04:02Speaker 00

  Yellow.

• 2:04:02Speaker 01

  Except for the light on his eyes. At the time, I think some, you know, because Merchant Ivory doesn't pull this shit, right? James Ivory, when he's making his movies, which are concurrent, like remains to the day the same year. Right. He's not a stylish filmmaker in that way. And I think some people at the critics at the time were kind of like, oh, Marty's being a little too flashy.

• 2:04:21Speaker 00

  He's doing toys and shit.

• 2:04:22Speaker 01

  But to me, it's just like, no, he's just thinking about how to tell this story and using his mediums.

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  That's exactly what I was thinking.

• 2:04:29Speaker 00

  Around them.

• 2:04:29Speaker 02

  And everything, all the other noise cuts out and it's just them. I fucking love that.

• 2:04:33Speaker 00

  She's literally like glowing and it's as you said, that scene needs to carry the weight for the rest of the movie, basically of, he's never gonna get over her. This feels like the only honest conversation he's ever had.

• 2:04:44Speaker 01

  What are we talking about here?

• 2:04:46Speaker 00

  The Age of Innocence? It's a movie directed by Martin Scorsese.

• 2:04:49Speaker 01

  Age of Innocence. Do you want me to describe a typical meal?

• 2:04:56Speaker 01

  From the time that Rick Ellis, the food stylist drew from?

• 2:05:00Speaker 00

  Yes, please.

• 2:05:01Speaker 01

  Okay, we're kicking off with oysters on the half shell. All right. Sure.

• 2:05:04Speaker 03

  That was a classic New York food too of its time.

• 2:05:08Speaker 01

  All right, then we're swerving right from that to turtle soup. Uh oh.

• 2:05:11Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:05:12Speaker 01

  I don't think I want that.

• 2:05:13Speaker 00

  Who's, who's that real turtle?

• 2:05:14Speaker 03

  Treader?

• 2:05:17Speaker 01

  That was good.

• 2:05:18Speaker 00

  The shredder himself?

• 2:05:19Speaker 01

  It is made from the meat of turtles.

• 2:05:20Speaker 02

  Sickening to think about, isn't it?

• 2:05:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it actually is.

• 2:05:22Speaker 02

  There's also mock turtle soup. I think we did a thing on the-

• 2:05:24Speaker 01

  Eventually, we moved on to, let's mock it up.

• 2:05:27Speaker 02

  I think we did a thing on the podcast where we talked about British soups, because there aren't many.

• 2:05:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:05:32Speaker 02

  And one of them was turtle soup and one of them was mock turtle soup, which was made from like, I don't know, like-

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  It's made usually from a calf's feet.

• 2:05:42Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 2:05:42Speaker 00

  Mmm.

• 2:05:43Speaker 01

  Very humane.

• 2:05:44Speaker 00

  Yum.

• 2:05:46Speaker 01

  Then, okay, some hors d'oeuvres, maybe a sort of meat or pastry concoction of some time. Okay, fine. Then a fish entree.

• 2:05:52Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:05:53Speaker 01

  Fish, followed by Roman punch, which is a drinkable lemon flavored ice with rum to cleanse the palate.

• 2:05:59Speaker 02

  Roman punch? Roman about that?

• 2:06:01Speaker 01

  Oh, it's super Roman and stop asking questions, maybe.

• 2:06:03Speaker 02

  Oh, right, sorry, yeah.

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  Then a roast course.

• 2:06:06Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:06:07Speaker 01

  So meat with a vegetable.

• 2:06:10Speaker 00

  Better mate.

• 2:06:10Speaker 01

  Mate and two veg.

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  A Sunday roast, lovely.

• 2:06:13Speaker 01

  Then a game course, perhaps a roast fowl of some sort.

• 2:06:17Speaker 00

  A pheasant.

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  Then a salad. Now, you hear salad, you think leaves. No, no, no. We hadn't really gotten that.

• 2:06:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  That's considered a sort of a French salad. Now, it would just be a bunch of cooked vegetables with chicken. So basically, like, kind of like, you know, entree salad.

• 2:06:32Speaker 00

  A little late for a salad.

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. Like, I feel like there's four entrees in there on top of all the other shit.

• 2:06:39Speaker 00

  These motherfuckers are like Alfred Hitchcock every night of their goddamn lives.

• 2:06:42Speaker 01

  And then two to three dessert courses, you know, puddings and then some confections and then some fruits.

• 2:06:48Speaker 00

  I do love, in the visual language of this movie-

• 2:06:50Speaker 01

  What were the shits being taken?

• 2:06:52Speaker 00

  Nightmares.

• 2:06:53Speaker 01

  You know, all this repressed emotion and then-

• 2:06:56Speaker 00

  The answer is pretty similar to my daily life. I have to imagine she might be clocking in some time at the office if you catch my drift.

• 2:07:02Speaker 02

  Okay, here's a question.

• 2:07:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:07:04Speaker 02

  You know how, like, for example, Henry VIII had a guy wipe his ass for him? Do you know that?

• 2:07:09Speaker 00

  I did not know that.

• 2:07:10Speaker 02

  Well, he did.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  There's a word. It was, this guy was like a member of the fucking, you know, court.

• 2:07:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:15Speaker 01

  It's like the royal privy, you know, whatever.

• 2:07:19Speaker 00

  May I ask, what's his title?

• 2:07:21Speaker 01

  I'm gonna find it.

• 2:07:22Speaker 02

  I think it was the groom of the stool.

• 2:07:23Speaker 01

  Yes, that's it. I think that's exactly it.

• 2:07:25Speaker 02

  It was the groom of the stool.

• 2:07:26Speaker 01

  Yes, it was, uh, okay, now, it was the groom of the chamber, but like, uh, you know, there's also the title that, yes, the groom of the schooled stool, who was responsible for assisting the king in excretion and hiking.

• 2:07:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Well, so what I'm wondering is, in the Gilded Age, were, was, was anyone on that? Was anyone having a, a New York ass wiper?

• 2:07:52Speaker 00

  There's the Mr. Show sketch where they try to bring that back, where there's a fancy restaurant called the Burgundy Loaf. And it is the highest, the reason you know it is the highest class restaurant is because they don't make you use something so disgusting as a bathroom.

• 2:08:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:08:07Speaker 00

  They have the toilets built into your plush chairs.

• 2:08:09Speaker 02

  I remember that, yes.

• 2:08:10Speaker 00

  And then when a guy takes a shit, they're just like, uh, Terry? And then like an old cockney chimney sweep comes out and it's like, sir, it'd be my pleasure to give your ass a wipe there, would? But he's got a big fucking, like, chimney brush.

• 2:08:26Speaker 01

  The craziest thing to me is like, okay, so this is William III's stool, right?

• 2:08:30Speaker 02

  It's a box, mate.

• 2:08:31Speaker 01

  It's a box and it's got a hole in it, you know? That's where the poop goes, but it's also like velvet. And I'm like, do we really want to be like having velvet near the poop?

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:08:41Speaker 01

  Velvet's gonna retain a little bit, you know?

• 2:08:43Speaker 02

  It's textured, you know?

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know, I'm not into that.

• 2:08:46Speaker 02

  There's no crannies.

• 2:08:48Speaker 00

  It remembers. Velvet has a memory.

• 2:08:51Speaker 02

  Velvet remembers, yeah.

• 2:08:52Speaker 00

  Velvet remembers. I was gonna say, there's the thing that Marty does in this movie where, you know, the, the dinner table conversations are like the big action set pieces of this movie.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:09:02Speaker 00

  Where the most intense conversations happen or the one that could like move the tectonic plates of their lives. And he does the thing where he'll do the cross dissolves from one dish to another.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:09:12Speaker 00

  He'll sort of do, it's almost like-

• 2:09:13Speaker 01

  He does some amazing montage shit in this movie.

• 2:09:17Speaker 00

  The dishes being served to the audience and then fading from one to another. But it is because like, and he does it sometimes with their paintings, he does it with their fashion sometimes. It's just like, all of this is for that. It's the reason they put up with all this bullshit is the idea that then you get to spend the money on the nicer fabrics, have the art on the walls, you know, eat, eat this many things. Like, he does such a good job of putting the emphasis on that and not having it just be window dressing.

• 2:09:44Speaker 02

  Okay, question.

• 2:09:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:09:46Speaker 02

  Do you think the food looks good?

• 2:09:47Speaker 00

  No, I think it looks disgusting.

• 2:09:49Speaker 02

  Okay, yes.

• 2:09:50Speaker 01

  There's the occasional dish where it's a little bit more just kind of like some fucking duck, you know, cut up or on a plate where I'm like, well, that looks fine. Some of the stuff, not so appetizing.

• 2:09:59Speaker 02

  Right, because one of the notes I made was, oh, I must eat my annoying plates of shite properly.

• 2:10:06Speaker 02

  That, are they all so annoying?

• 2:10:08Speaker 00

  Yes, they all look annoying to eat.

• 2:10:10Speaker 01

  You know, like this, right? Where it's like a big old fish. And then there's like some cucumbers that have been hollowed out.

• 2:10:17Speaker 00

  Revolting.

• 2:10:18Speaker 01

  Sort of sushi style, but before sushi exists and filled with like caviar.

• 2:10:22Speaker 00

  You're like, are those supposed to be eaten or are those just fucking wasteful garnish?

• 2:10:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:26Speaker 01

  I mean, it's a good question, like-

• 2:10:27Speaker 02

  Little flowers of vegetables.

• 2:10:29Speaker 01

  It never feels like anything, any, anyone's really like chowing down, you know what I mean?

• 2:10:33Speaker 00

  Whole huke full of fucking fish eggs.

• 2:10:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it makes me very grateful for sort of new American cuisine.

• 2:10:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:10:40Speaker 00

  Right, we've replaced your-

• 2:10:42Speaker 01

  This looks all right. That's like meat and vegetables and potatoes on a plate. That looks okay.

• 2:10:46Speaker 02

  Celery or some shit.

• 2:10:47Speaker 00

  We've replaced the, the queen's idea of dinner with the Burger Kings, you know?

• 2:10:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:10:53Speaker 02

  That's very offensive.

• 2:10:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:10:55Speaker 01

  I mean, what's going on here? I don't know.

• 2:10:57Speaker 00

  It's a shitty plate, too.

• 2:10:58Speaker 01

  Something's kind of buried under here, yeah.

• 2:11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:11:00Speaker 00

  Just a little mush and jelly and bullshit. I, I don't, I don't even want it.

• 2:11:04Speaker 02

  I don't even want it.

• 2:11:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:11:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I would, I would for sure take my life now over their life there needing that garbage.

• 2:11:10Speaker 00

  I think it looks quite fine in my eyes.

• 2:11:12Speaker 01

  And just, and just for-

• 2:11:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I'll say it again. Quite fine.

• 2:11:18Speaker 01

  And just to remind everyone, uh, though people might not know this, but Libby did have a Starbucks sausage, egg and cheese for breakfast, which she revealed during the sound test.

• 2:11:27Speaker 00

  Ben's sound check is he always asks the guests to say what they ate for breakfast. It's a, it's a industry classic. And you like took a deep sigh and you went like, regrettably, I ate. And then you're listing it and we're like, that doesn't sound bad. And then it was truly the last word from Starbucks.

• 2:11:41Speaker 02

  Look, here's the thing, right? Tea is very important to me and I like to get an iced tea for my second caffeinated beverage of the day.

• 2:11:50Speaker 00

  You start with coffee?

• 2:11:51Speaker 02

  I start with coffee.

• 2:11:52Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:11:52Speaker 02

  And then I go for a tea. And if I'm at home, I'll have a hot tea, but if I'm out and about, I like an iced tea. And the problem in America is that iced tea is often too weak. I like tea to taste quite what I think Americans would think of as horrid, astringent, tannic.

• 2:12:07Speaker 01

  What the British would call a builder's tea.

• 2:12:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's gotta be strong. And if you go to Starbucks, you can ask for iced tea with no water. And if you don't add water, it's quite strong.

• 2:12:18Speaker 01

  Like, they don't dilute it. They're just pouring, you know, their brewed iced tea.

• 2:12:22Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 2:12:23Speaker 01

  All right, I didn't know you could do that.

• 2:12:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:12:25Speaker 01

  And then you were like, and what cuisine do you have on offer? And they were like, well, do you like, you like bagels that are two weeks old? And you're like, no.

• 2:12:34Speaker 00

  But don't worry, they're made of rubber.

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  Let's discuss the film a bit more. Okay, so, um, yeah, Newland Arch, we, we talked about it, right? He's, he, he's horny for Alan Olenska because she's so goddamn personable and emotional compared to every other stiff ass in this country.

• 2:12:53Speaker 00

  She's also got this kind of Michelle Pfeiffer vibe that's pretty hard to-

• 2:12:57Speaker 01

  Face that's nice.

• 2:12:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:12:59Speaker 01

  So he likes that.

• 2:13:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:13:01Speaker 01

  But it's, I mean, she's really good.

• 2:13:03Speaker 00

  She's excellent. I'm kind of surprised she didn't get a nomination for this.

• 2:13:06Speaker 01

  You know, it's a really tough year. It's, it's the 93 Oscars, it's Schindler's List, obviously is, is the best picture winner, but you have the piano. I mean, let's, you know, the best actor, you know?

• 2:13:17Speaker 00

  Right, so Holly wins.

• 2:13:18Speaker 01

  Holly Hunter wins. Then you have Angela Bassett for What Love Got To Do With It, her performance. Stoker Channing for Six Degrees, her only Oscar nom.

• 2:13:25Speaker 00

  And a cool nomination.

• 2:13:26Speaker 01

  Great performance.

• 2:13:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:13:27Speaker 01

  Emma Thompson remains of the day, which is kind of taking your costume slot.

• 2:13:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:13:31Speaker 01

  The fifth one, Deborah Winger for Shadowlands, but that was like a very actor-y movie.

• 2:13:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:13:36Speaker 01

  And she dies.

• 2:13:37Speaker 00

  It's her and Hopkins?

• 2:13:39Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:13:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:13:39Speaker 01

  He's C.S. Lewis.

• 2:13:40Speaker 00

  Is it Tony Richardson?

• 2:13:43Speaker 00

  Is it maybe Tony Richardson's last film?

• 2:13:45Speaker 01

  No, it's Richard Attenborough.

• 2:13:46Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 2:13:47Speaker 01

  But another.

• 2:13:47Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:13:48Speaker 01

  It's about how C.S. Lewis, later in life, after being a weird virgin, or whatever he was, I don't know what he was up to.

• 2:13:55Speaker 00

  A, a man of wardrobes.

• 2:13:57Speaker 01

  Right, who's just like, I love Jesus, what if he were a lion?

• 2:14:02Speaker 00

  I wish Jesus was as brave as he feels in my mind. With the body of the king of the animals.

• 2:14:10Speaker 01

  As someone who recently reread all the Narnia books, they weird. They weird. That's not interesting, but weird.

• 2:14:16Speaker 00

  Some interesting thoughts.

• 2:14:17Speaker 01

  Um, but he, uh, later in life, met this like, uh, American woman, a poet called Joy Davidman, who was like his opposite, and they fell in love, and then she died of cancer. And he wrote very beautifully about it. And it's all very interesting and the movie's quite good.

• 2:14:30Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:14:31Speaker 01

  But, you know, it's a bit of a weepy. But yeah, I mean, I think this movie was greeted a little, uh, a little frostily, though.

• 2:14:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:14:38Speaker 01

  And Michelle is very good in it, but I guess because the movie, because she kind of vanishes from the movie.

• 2:14:44Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:14:45Speaker 01

  She doesn't quite get that final like hammer kind of moment, although she, she has the most emotional moments in the movie. Like, she is the only one who will say like, you suck, this sucks, you suck, fuck you.

• 2:14:57Speaker 00

  Just done Dangerous Liaisons.

• 2:14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, she did that a couple of years.

• 2:15:01Speaker 00

  Kind of undeniable powerhouse, electrifying. Um, I did, I did point out to Ben, when Geraldine Chaplin showed up on screen, I did say that is Vron's mother. It must be acknowledged.

• 2:15:12Speaker 01

  Sure, that is Charlie Chaplin's daughter and Una Chaplin's mother.

• 2:15:15Speaker 00

  Hmm, let's change the billing of those two things. She is the mother of Vron. And I responded, shh. You did not.

• 2:15:22Speaker 01

  We're in a fucking movie theater.

• 2:15:23Speaker 00

  You did not. You took out a big mallet, you hit yourself over the head, your tongue rolled out, steam came out of your ears. Your wife showed up with a rolling pin.

• 2:15:33Speaker 02

  We do like doing that.

• 2:15:34Speaker 00

  The photo you had.

• 2:15:34Speaker 02

  Wives love the rolling pin.

• 2:15:36Speaker 00

  Wives love the rolling pin. But I just want to call it some of the other supporting people in this, because it's just like Stack Cast. You've got Jonathan Pryce as the most French man who's ever lived.

• 2:15:46Speaker 02

  Bro, that accent is so funny.

• 2:15:49Speaker 01

  He putting some mustard on this one.

• 2:15:52Speaker 01

  He's good. He's good.

• 2:15:53Speaker 00

  He's good.

• 2:15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got, you know, Michael Gough.

• 2:15:57Speaker 00

  Alfred.

• 2:15:57Speaker 01

  Alfred the butler from Batman.

• 2:15:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:15:59Speaker 01

  As one of the mean, rich people, but he actually, I guess he's the, the rich person, the Vanderliedens. You know, Newland goes to them and he's like, can we be nice to the countess? And he's like, hmm, okay, we'll have a party, but she better sit in the right chairs and shit.

• 2:16:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:16:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:16:16Speaker 00

  Norman Lloyd, who looks so fucking old in this and then lived for another 20 years.

• 2:16:21Speaker 01

  Yes, he's Mr. Letterblair. Quite an awesome, if you remember this character, quite an awesome name. But he's, he's a legend of, I mean, going back to basically silent movies, right?

• 2:16:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, and Lifeboat was sort of his big. This is June Squibb's second film, I think, or third film behind Sensitive Woman. And she's in Woody Allen's Alice. But her career is just starting. She shows up for one line in this. What are you laughing at, Libby?

• 2:16:53Speaker 02

  I'm pretty sure that what I know her from.

• 2:16:56Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 2:16:57Speaker 02

  Is an episode of Frasier.

• 2:16:58Speaker 01

  Oh, hell, yeah. Let's see.

• 2:17:02Speaker 02

  I'm such a twat. Worst guess. I'm gonna be so hated by the.

• 2:17:05Speaker 00

  Best guess, best guess.

• 2:17:06Speaker 02

  By the subreddit for this, June Squibb. I'm like 99% sure there's an episode where.

• 2:17:11Speaker 01

  I'm telling you.

• 2:17:12Speaker 02

  Where Roz has to do community service at an old folks home and she plays like a kind of crazy old lady who's.

• 2:17:19Speaker 01

  No, people are saying that.

• 2:17:22Speaker 02

  Many people are saying.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  That, including Google AI, that she has never appeared on Frasier. Now, the episode you were referring to is possibly called The Bad Sun is from season eight?

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  No, no, you're right. I've completely fucked it.

• 2:17:40Speaker 01

  It's all right.

• 2:17:41Speaker 00

  Wow, wow.

• 2:17:42Speaker 02

  No, I'm thinking of a different person. There's a different person.

• 2:17:45Speaker 01

  You've got old lady face blindness.

• 2:17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, all right, we'll cut this. The episode is Roz's Krantz and Gildenstone are dead.

• 2:17:54Speaker 01

  The kind of charming shit a Frasier episode would be called.

• 2:17:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the actress is some other old lady who rocks.

• 2:18:00Speaker 01

  What, do we know her name or is it?

• 2:18:01Speaker 02

  No, I'm looking it up.

• 2:18:02Speaker 01

  Let's find out. I've got this, I've got this called up here. Oh, it's Lois Smith. Okay.

• 2:18:07Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 2:18:07Speaker 01

  June Squibb and Lois Smith are pissing in the same river.

• 2:18:10Speaker 00

  The two Marjorie.

• 2:18:11Speaker 01

  I was about to say, yes. Lois Smith played Marjorie in Marjorie Prime on film. And then June Squibb recently played it on Broadway and got an Oscar nomination.

• 2:18:19Speaker 02

  Wow, okay, so it's actually, I'm like, I'm right, in a way.

• 2:18:21Speaker 01

  Be weird if she got an Oscar nom.

• 2:18:23Speaker 00

  It would. They were like, they should just give her a fucking Oscar.

• 2:18:26Speaker 01

  It was sad she didn't win the Tony.

• 2:18:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:18:28Speaker 01

  I was a little sad for her.

• 2:18:29Speaker 00

  That would have been really nice.

• 2:18:30Speaker 01

  They were like, Laurie Metcalf needs a third. And obviously Laurie Metcalf's great, but you know, it's kind of like, come on.

• 2:18:34Speaker 00

  Does she need a third?

• 2:18:36Speaker 01

  Maybe not. Maybe she don't.

• 2:18:37Speaker 00

  I mean, how many awards did we give her for the Connors? Isn't that enough?

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  So, all right, so he's in love with, but of course he is going to get married. Newland is gonna get married to a nice girl named May, who is played by Winona Ryder and who is, for, I would say, good sort of half of the movie. Just like, my vibe is I'm nice and pretty and I don't ask questions and I don't make a fuss.

• 2:19:00Speaker 00

  They're both cousins. This is a real kissing cousins movie of, of which side of the family is gonna try to get tighter.

• 2:19:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:19:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:19:08Speaker 01

  But like, Newland spends a lot of the first chunk of the movie basically kind of like carving out, you know, a reputation for the countess. Like Countess Ellen, you know, like, you know, like sort of letting her return to American high society despite the scandal. To the point that May eventually is like, do you fucking like her? Like, are you, are you into the countess?

• 2:19:29Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:19:30Speaker 01

  And he's like, no, and we should get married, me and you, right now, actually. Let's get married tomorrow.

• 2:19:34Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:19:34Speaker 01

  And she's like, okay, but you know, May obviously sort of clocks that.

• 2:19:39Speaker 00

  And Pfeiffer basically is like, it will ruin you if you are with me. I mean, she says something very much to the effect of like, the reason I'm in love with you is because you're not making love to me. The greatest show of respect I can give you is to not let you be with me, which just drives him fucking insane. And he's like, cool, well, what I'll do is I'll shove it all the way down and it will stay down there and it will never cause any problems. That's how the human brain works.

• 2:20:06Speaker 02

  Yes. Also, is that the same scene where we discover he's a foot guy?

• 2:20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:10Speaker 01

  Fuck.

• 2:20:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:12Speaker 01

  The man also sniffs an umbrella handle. He doesn't know where to put all this.

• 2:20:18Speaker 01

  But I mean, it's more just that kind of thing of like, he, you know, no touchy.

• 2:20:23Speaker 00

  No touchy.

• 2:20:24Speaker 01

  No, like, and so it's all just this crazy pent up energy.

• 2:20:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:20:28Speaker 01

  Right, so you know, the countess has this dalliance with Stuart Wilson, who plays this kind of financier, right? You know, who's like, helps her be in high society, but he's a little too troublesome.

• 2:20:38Speaker 00

  But he has the, the scene with the lighthouse. Where suddenly the movie becomes like incredibly painterly.

• 2:20:47Speaker 01

  Yes, like pink and bright and beautiful. Yes.

• 2:20:50Speaker 00

  There's this, the Museum of Moving Image in Queens, some years ago, had a Scorsese exhibit. And there was a really fascinating letter that he wrote, I don't remember if it was to the DGA, possibly? To try to defend a Martin Scorsese picture as a credit, because they didn't like that.

• 2:21:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, they thought he was being a little too pretentious or whatever.

• 2:21:13Speaker 00

  But I think he didn't want directed by Martin Scorsese and that was the problem.

• 2:21:17Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:21:17Speaker 00

  And in this letter, he's breaking down how his greatest dream as a child was to be a fine artist. And obviously we know he drew his own storyboards until he became obsessed with this new thing called AI, which is really interesting and we should just explore. But his, his line work was like incredible and he would do these storyboards with like colored pencils and stuff. He said that he really wanted to be a fine artist more than anything else. And with the weakness of his lungs, he could not tolerate oil paints. And he said like, the, I picture by Martin Scorsese thing for me is an expression of, I think of it as picture making, not just in the, we call them moving pictures.

• 2:21:57Speaker 00

  But it's the expression of, I never got to do these big paintings that I wanted to do my life. I was physically held back from being able to paint these things. And this movie has this moment, I mean, A, there's like a Sunday in the Park with George recreation. And then there is this, this lighthouse sequence where it becomes like really stylized and fantastical. And it's basically the memory he's gonna keep going back to of the one time his life felt like expressionistic art to him.

• 2:22:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a part where they go to London after they get married.

• 2:22:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:22:29Speaker 02

  And it shows, is it actually a Turner painting that they use for that? Or does it just look a lot like a Turner painting? But that, that stuck out to me as.

• 2:22:37Speaker 01

  Mr. Turner.

• 2:22:41Speaker 02

  But that stuck out to me as well.

• 2:22:42Speaker 01

  They actually used a Turner painting. I'm not sure, but no, I'm just referencing.

• 2:22:45Speaker 02

  Looks a lot like it, anyway.

• 2:22:47Speaker 01

  The incredible movie Turner, in which, you know, Timothy Small plays Turner and he's always like.

• 2:22:55Speaker 01

  Right. And there's a scene where Queen Victoria sees a painting of his. Have you seen the film?

• 2:23:00Speaker 02

  I have not, no.

• 2:23:02Speaker 01

  Like, you know, she's at the art show and there's a Turner and you know, it's one of his fucking insane paintings from, that they were all freaked out about. Cause it didn't look like what it's supposed to look like.

• 2:23:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:23:10Speaker 01

  And she goes, hmm, Turner. And it's so good.

• 2:23:13Speaker 00

  Oh, that is.

• 2:23:15Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 2:23:16Speaker 02

  Really nice.

• 2:23:17Speaker 01

  It's great. No, no, but the scene with the lighthouse, obviously, is where he's basically like, all right, all right, all right, riddle me this. You go out, I'm visiting you in Newport.

• 2:23:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:23:25Speaker 01

  You know, where all the high society would go in the Gilded Age. That was their sort of like country place. And you be on that dock and if you wanna maybe, you know, give me a little kiss, you could turn around while I wait for you.

• 2:23:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:23:38Speaker 01

  And she never turns around.

• 2:23:39Speaker 00

  She doesn't do it.

• 2:23:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:23:40Speaker 00

  He's, he, but that's.

• 2:23:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:23:42Speaker 00

  The last thing he remembers is like the back of her head.

• 2:23:44Speaker 01

  Right, well, I'll just put it in here and ruminate it on it forever until I die.

• 2:23:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:23:49Speaker 02

  And I really like how in that scene, it's, it's sort of like, oh, well, he's made up this weird rule in his head, you know, like, okay, if the, if the, if the ship goes past.

• 2:23:57Speaker 01

  Say anything.

• 2:23:58Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah, okay, if the ship goes past the lighthouse or whatever and she, you know, then I won't go over to it. Just completely like, you know, childish thing. And, but the idea is that like, he has to do something. And then later, you know, it turns out she knew he was there. Yet another example of this stupid fucking guy thinking.

• 2:24:18Speaker 02

  You know, I know, I know what's going on here.

• 2:24:20Speaker 01

  The main character, right.

• 2:24:21Speaker 02

  And I'm, and I'm the one who's making this decision. And meanwhile, the woman knows exactly what's up and she's like, yeah, I just didn't, I just didn't turn around.

• 2:24:27Speaker 01

  Right, I knew that I.

• 2:24:28Speaker 02

  I knew about that, yeah.

• 2:24:29Speaker 01

  It's like, it's not all about, right, like what's going on with you.

• 2:24:32Speaker 02

  Your little games.

• 2:24:34Speaker 01

  And your little like, you know, sort of roiled internal monologue, like we're aware of it.

• 2:24:38Speaker 02

  It's just not that interesting, you know, like your, like little, you know, suffering or whatever. To, to me, this is just a little bit of like, you just fucking get over it a little bit, you know?

• 2:24:49Speaker 01

  Well, you know, what rocks is they just can't. But that's, that's the crush.

• 2:24:54Speaker 00

  That's the juice. But also he convinces himself.

• 2:24:57Speaker 01

  That's what's so hard about crush dynamics.

• 2:24:59Speaker 00

  I think what makes this movie so emotionally affecting to me is that he convinces himself that he has gotten over it. That there is the kind of spark of him realizing that Winona Ryder is so much more aware and in power than he thought. And then he kind of gets a little turned on by her, gets into being a wife guy to her. And it's not really until she dies that he's like, have I kind of been lying to myself for 25 years?

• 2:25:22Speaker 02

  Well, this is, the, the big question for me of this movie is, is it more fun to be in love with someone you can't have? And is that the thing that?

• 2:25:31Speaker 00

  If you're asking me, I got an answer.

• 2:25:33Speaker 02

  At the end of the way, like by the end of the movie, he just turns around and is like, actually, you know, if you wanted it that much, wouldn't you have gone up to the fucking room?

• 2:25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Maybe go to the room, do some hand stuff with Pfeiffer.

• 2:25:44Speaker 02

  So I will say throughout the movie, I was kind of like, a little bit not sold on it. Until the end, when I realized how unbelievably mad I was, like disappointed.

• 2:25:56Speaker 01

  The movie has worked.

• 2:25:56Speaker 02

  And hurt that he didn't go up to the room. I was like, well, fuck, I guess. I guess I do really, really, really care about this because it pisses me off to an unreasonable degree.

• 2:26:06Speaker 00

  Let me just look at that lens reflection of the window.

• 2:26:09Speaker 01

  So, you know, he basically like presses on the gas because he's like, I gotta fucking marry May. Because otherwise I'm gonna, you know, do something.

• 2:26:17Speaker 00

  Lose my fucking mind.

• 2:26:18Speaker 01

  May's like, and you're sure you don't like the countess? And he's like, I definitely don't like the countess and you really should stop asking about it. I don't even know what her name is.

• 2:26:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:26:24Speaker 01

  And I don't even know what kind of beautiful color her hair is.

• 2:26:27Speaker 00

  The who test?

• 2:26:31Speaker 01

  All I care about is you and we all know your name and it's something or other and I can't wait to marry you and then we'll go somewhere and then.

• 2:26:37Speaker 00

  I'm in love with one Tim Burton heroine. And I obviously don't even need to say who it is.

• 2:26:43Speaker 01

  But the path has been.

• 2:26:44Speaker 00

  Laid out.

• 2:26:45Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:26:45Speaker 00

  And it is a good life.

• 2:26:48Speaker 01

  And what I love about this movie is that it skips all that. Like, you know, it's just like anytime you're like, wow, okay, what's gonna happen next? Marty's like, no, no, no, no, no, we are now fast forwarding. That's not what the movie is not about everything that he did. It's about this thing with the Countess that he could never let go of. So, yes, after they get married, you know, like the montage of them traveling around and all that. You know, that's fun, but then like that's when May kind of reveals afterwards of like, I knew about this all along. She does it in the perfect way of like never saying like you're in trouble. Just being like, oh, and is it a big deal that I kind of had made sure that the Countess could go back to Europe? And I got some money set up for her by our friend, the chair lady.

• 2:27:32Speaker 01

  And, you know, and also, and then later she's like, and is it a big deal that I'm pregnant? And I told her that and like, I'm sure you're not mad at me, right?

• 2:27:40Speaker 00

  And the family went.

• 2:27:41Speaker 01

  How could I be mad at you?

• 2:27:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:27:43Speaker 01

  Married people have babies and that's great.

• 2:27:46Speaker 02

  And again, it's like, that's her exerting power.

• 2:27:49Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:27:49Speaker 02

  He has no ability.

• 2:27:50Speaker 01

  That's her field.

• 2:27:51Speaker 02

  Yes, and he can't say an honest thing. He never at any point is able to say an honest thing. So he wants to tell her a couple of times and she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's what's gonna happen. I'm gonna tell you what has already happened, which is that she's fucked off to Europe and I did that. And by the way, I'm pregnant and you're fucked, you know?

• 2:28:08Speaker 01

  So, and then right when you're like, okay, what's gonna happen next? The Edith and Marty are like, what happened next is they live together for 25 years. And eventually she died.

• 2:28:18Speaker 00

  Good enough.

• 2:28:19Speaker 01

  And it was all right and they had a son and, you know, look at this nice, Robert Sean Wilson. Who wouldn't want to have Robert Sean? Leonard, he plays Wilson.

• 2:28:27Speaker 02

  He's Wilson in House.

• 2:28:29Speaker 01

  It's Robert, you know, wouldn't you be happy if you had Robert Sean Leonard? There he is. He's all right.

• 2:28:33Speaker 00

  Well, unless you're Kurt Wood Smith and then you're really unhappy about it.

• 2:28:36Speaker 01

  That's so true. And I remember the first time I saw this movie, I was bewildered. I was like, wait a second, like, and now he's old?

• 2:28:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:28:46Speaker 01

  And then it's like.

• 2:28:47Speaker 00

  Real drawn out epilogue.

• 2:28:48Speaker 01

  But then just kind of this thing of like, okay, dad, we're in Paris. And FYI, my mom did confess on her deathbed. She kind of knew you really fucking like this Countess lady. So if you want to hang out with her, I've kind of set it up for you. And Daniel Davis is just like, I'm gonna park my keister right here.

• 2:29:04Speaker 00

  What if I sit on the bench and shove it down?

• 2:29:09Speaker 01

  He can't do it.

• 2:29:10Speaker 00

  He can't do it.

• 2:29:10Speaker 01

  What's he gonna do?

• 2:29:11Speaker 00

  Nothing. He doesn't know what to do.

• 2:29:12Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing, she's gonna be old.

• 2:29:14Speaker 00

  She's gonna be old.

• 2:29:15Speaker 02

  She's gonna be old.

• 2:29:17Speaker 00

  And Michelle Pfeiffer at 50, grove.

• 2:29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, we know what happened to her. She became an ogre.

• 2:29:24Speaker 00

  Princess Fiona, I call her.

• 2:29:27Speaker 01

  Oh my god. No, exactly. It's, and it's that, you know, if this movie ended with them like holding hands and being like, perhaps a life in Paris we shall live. I would be like, that doesn't feel right at all.

• 2:29:39Speaker 00

  It's weird that Scorsese made this.

• 2:29:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would kind of be like, did someone like yell at Edith Wharton? And she had to like write an extra chapter or something, right? You know, and it's like, no, of course that's the end.

• 2:29:47Speaker 02

  I was wondering if it was gonna be like Finding Francis, you know, the Nathan Fielder thing.

• 2:29:51Speaker 01

  Go on, please tell me.

• 2:29:52Speaker 02

  They find Francis at the end, this, this old man who has been searching for his high school sweetheart his whole life. Or, you know, considered it but never done it. And Nathan helps him find her and then he manages to talk to her on the phone and she's just like had a life.

• 2:30:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:30:05Speaker 02

  And he's like.

• 2:30:05Speaker 00

  She wasn't waiting for him. She wasn't defined by him being shitty on a date one time.

• 2:30:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it was like, oh, right, well, I'll just go back to my life and she has his. And that's kind of what I thought was like, even if he does go up to the bedroom, what is it? What is gonna happen?

• 2:30:21Speaker 00

  Nothing. He's too much of a coward.

• 2:30:22Speaker 01

  And stuff.

• 2:30:24Speaker 02

  And like, you know, they've had lives, you know?

• 2:30:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's got bad fingers.

• 2:30:27Speaker 01

  He simply couldn't use his hands in that manner.

• 2:30:31Speaker 02

  Well, that was the other thing that I thought was, he should have fingered her in the carriage.

• 2:30:36Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 2:30:37Speaker 01

  They do do some kissing.

• 2:30:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:39Speaker 01

  At least there's a kiss.

• 2:30:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's a make out.

• 2:30:42Speaker 02

  I was like, when the, the camera pans up and you see the top of the carriage, I was like, okay, they fucking in there?

• 2:30:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:30:47Speaker 01

  I think people just had a lot of layers on back then.

• 2:30:49Speaker 00

  I would describe that as a rare opportunity.

• 2:30:52Speaker 02

  Right? Every time they've been alone and it hasn't been some made.

• 2:30:56Speaker 00

  From the words of a historical fumbler. I just think you really kind of got to rise to that moment if the situation's presenting itself.

• 2:31:05Speaker 02

  Yes, and like maybe, maybe if he'd done it right, you know, should have been like, you know what? You're right. Actually, you should leave your wife for me. And all that stuff is bullshit, because you got the goods, you know?

• 2:31:15Speaker 00

  Also on Catwoman, meow.

• 2:31:16Speaker 01

  Right, meow. But I think a vital thing with the Countess, and she expresses it, she's like, don't make me have another affair. I already did, right?

• 2:31:23Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 2:31:24Speaker 01

  Like, if you want to marry me and scandalize society, I suppose we could talk about it, but like.

• 2:31:29Speaker 00

  The part of like.

• 2:31:29Speaker 01

  I already did that.

• 2:31:30Speaker 00

  I, I love you because you are concerned about restoring my reputation. If we physicalize this love, you no longer are showing that consideration for me.

• 2:31:40Speaker 02

  Did you have the moment that I had where I sort of started to game plan out like, you know, because they, he says something like, you know, what if we get, you know, I wish we could get away somewhere and do this. And I'm like, okay, but you are rich, like.

• 2:31:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:31:51Speaker 02

  You're walking around town in a coat and stuff.

• 2:31:53Speaker 00

  Pick a new country or whatever.

• 2:31:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Move to Deadwood. I hear it's lovely.

• 2:31:57Speaker 01

  Deadwood? Wait a second.

• 2:31:59Speaker 02

  Oh, right. Sorry. No, yeah, he would, he would die there.

• 2:32:01Speaker 01

  He wouldn't, right?

• 2:32:01Speaker 00

  They swear there.

• 2:32:02Speaker 01

  Deadwood literally has the character who's like, I'm a rich guy. I want to find some gold. He's dead like episode two.

• 2:32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:08Speaker 01

  Someone's like, hit him with a rock.

• 2:32:10Speaker 02

  Fucking Brom Garrett the best. But no, I'm like, I'm literally trying to work out like, how did money work then? Because if you wanted to do that now, you just sort of download your money from the computer. Go somewhere else, but I don't, I literally don't know. Would it have been possible or was it all so tight? Like.

• 2:32:28Speaker 00

  You go to Gringotts, you have to take that fucking little cart so far down.

• 2:32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:32:33Speaker 00

  They're busy eating a bagel or whatever.

• 2:32:35Speaker 01

  What are you talking about? The couples aren't stereotypes at all. How dare you say that? No, yeah, I don't, I think it was a lot of, you know what? I was about to start talking about this like I have any idea how money worked. I don't fucking know. Wasn't it just a lot of IOUs back then, right?

• 2:32:48Speaker 02

  Society so much, why don't you leave it? Go to, I don't know.

• 2:32:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:52Speaker 02

  Ohio.

• 2:32:53Speaker 00

  It's simply what I would do.

• 2:32:54Speaker 01

  You keep picking places that don't sound that appetizing. You could say like the coast of Italy or something.

• 2:33:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, go to Europe. Europe rocks. He loves going to Europe. He goes to the, he goes to the movies. I mean, not the movies, the plays.

• 2:33:06Speaker 00

  Go to Japan like you've been saying you want to do.

• 2:33:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:10Speaker 01

  He's always like, I love Japan.

• 2:33:12Speaker 00

  He says it multiple times in the film.

• 2:33:14Speaker 02

  No, he's a weeb, yeah.

• 2:33:15Speaker 01

  It's, it's like, he doesn't know how to access pleasure.

• 2:33:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:33:21Speaker 01

  Really, and like that is as much as kissing, right? You know, like going to, right? I don't, I don't know. I'm trying to, you know, it's like, he doesn't, he can't have a good time. Do you ever see him having a good time in this movie?

• 2:33:34Speaker 00

  No one has a good time.

• 2:33:35Speaker 02

  No one has a good time. None of them are happy.

• 2:33:37Speaker 01

  May is kind of having, May is built for this. Winona Ryder, she's like, when they're going to the theater in London and she's like too dressed up and she's a little worried. She's kind of into this. Like, she's the only one who's kind of like, I was made for the society and I'm doing what I'm supposed to do in it, which is like enjoying it, right?

• 2:33:56Speaker 00

  But I think it was what you were saying before, she's carrying on the tradition.

• 2:33:59Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. But she's got a little bit more. Yes, but she seems to take a little more pleasure out of it. Marion Margulies is having a good time sitting on her chair.

• 2:34:08Speaker 02

  With her dogs.

• 2:34:09Speaker 01

  Might be it. I'm not sure if anyone else is having a great. I mean, we're sure Grant loves being a mean bitch.

• 2:34:13Speaker 00

  He does, and he's good at it.

• 2:34:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, Julius Beaufort, just kind of having fun, walking around town and pursuing women.

• 2:34:21Speaker 00

  I know it's an accent thing, but every time they say his name or the Beaufort name, the family name in this film.

• 2:34:27Speaker 01

  You want to go southern?

• 2:34:28Speaker 00

  No, I think they're saying Beaufa like Beaufa D's nuts.

• 2:34:32Speaker 01

  Beaufa D's nuts.

• 2:34:33Speaker 00

  I keep thinking they're saying Beaufa D's nuts.

• 2:34:36Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:34:37Speaker 01

  What if he went to Japan and did like a Last Samurai thing? Like he had like a whole other side to it.

• 2:34:41Speaker 00

  That'd be awesome.

• 2:34:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:43Speaker 01

  I, I don't know what I would do if I were Newland Archer.

• 2:34:47Speaker 00

  I have a question for you, David.

• 2:34:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, what, what's up?

• 2:34:49Speaker 00

  Going into the evening.

• 2:34:51Speaker 01

  The evening.

• 2:34:52Speaker 00

  Does it feel like Winona Ryder was expected to win the Oscar? Because she wins the Globe.

• 2:34:56Speaker 01

  Anna Paquin was a mild surprise. She had won the Globe. I think she was, you know, possibly the soft favorite, but the movie wasn't that loved, so, you know.

• 2:35:05Speaker 00

  But she's such a big star. This is the year before the SAG Awards start, so there's no comp there.

• 2:35:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:35:12Speaker 00

  And then Holly Hunter for The Firm was never gonna win because she's winning Best Actress that year.

• 2:35:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, she had won the Globe. I'm trying to think of like who won like the Critics Awards that year. But I think a lot of those went to Rosie Perez for Fearless.

• 2:35:25Speaker 00

  Who should have won.

• 2:35:26Speaker 01

  Who was amazing, obviously.

• 2:35:27Speaker 00

  Right. And then who's the fifth person?

• 2:35:32Speaker 00

  Rosie Winona.

• 2:35:35Speaker 01

  Uh, oh, let me find it.

• 2:35:37Speaker 00

  Anna Paquin. And the fifth nominee for Best Supporting Actress.

• 2:35:41Speaker 01

  Is, of course. One second, Winona is, uh, Emma Thompson for In the Name of the Father.

• 2:35:49Speaker 00

  Oh, which is another double nomination.

• 2:35:50Speaker 01

  She also had a double nom. Yeah, so, you know, Winona probably had some juice.

• 2:35:55Speaker 00

  Did Perez take more, like, critical awards?

• 2:35:58Speaker 01

  Now I gotta look up all the critics awards.

• 2:36:01Speaker 00

  In fact, you do.

• 2:36:03Speaker 02

  He's the guy with the laptop.

• 2:36:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's your.

• 2:36:05Speaker 01

  So, Best Supporting Actress at New York had gone to, well, Gong Li for Farewell My Concubine. That's throwing a stare of the works.

• 2:36:13Speaker 00

  Throwing everything off.

• 2:36:13Speaker 01

  But Rosie Perez was the runner up.

• 2:36:16Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:36:17Speaker 01

  Uh, and then nineteen ninety-three, Alaska, went to Supporting Actress. Anna Paquin and Rosie Perez tied.

• 2:36:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:36:24Speaker 01

  So, you know.

• 2:36:25Speaker 00

  National Border Review.

• 2:36:27Speaker 01

  Uh, first, I've got the National Society, they gave it to Madeline Stowe for Shortcuts, very cool pick.

• 2:36:32Speaker 00

  Very cool.

• 2:36:32Speaker 01

  But.

• 2:36:33Speaker 00

  Was that a double or triple? Did she have other movies this year?

• 2:36:35Speaker 01

  It says Shortcuts.

• 2:36:36Speaker 00

  Wow, okay.

• 2:36:37Speaker 01

  Uh, and then nineteen ninety-three, MBR, uh, went to Winona Ryder.

• 2:36:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:36:42Speaker 01

  So, you know, it was a mix. It doesn't feel like a.

• 2:36:45Speaker 00

  There was not, yeah. But Paquin definitely felt like a surprise.

• 2:36:48Speaker 01

  I think, I feel like she was considered a mild surprise because she was a little kiddy.

• 2:36:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:36:51Speaker 01

  Uh, but, um, yeah, you know, sort of an iconic Oscars moment. Would it have been nice for Winona to win an Oscar? Sure.

• 2:36:59Speaker 00

  Would have been nice.

• 2:36:59Speaker 01

  She's cool.

• 2:37:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love Winona Ryder.

• 2:37:01Speaker 01

  I know. She gets one more nom after this for Little Women?

• 2:37:04Speaker 00

  I wanna say. It's for lead, it's, is it the next year?

• 2:37:08Speaker 01

  The year after, yeah.

• 2:37:09Speaker 00

  Truly?

• 2:37:09Speaker 01

  Which she's, which she's good in that movie.

• 2:37:11Speaker 00

  But that felt like, you know, two nominations close together, supporting and lead. Uh, is she, you know, it's similar to Michelle Pfeiffer and Sigourney Weaver and these people where big movie stars became Oscar favorites and then, yes, get ignored for decades.

• 2:37:26Speaker 01

  Ah, anyway, uh, the film is good. Uh, yeah, it ends with him being sad. Poor Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 2:37:33Speaker 02

  In my headcanon, he, uh, walks around the corner and he just immediately starts jacking off.

• 2:37:39Speaker 01

  With his pinky out.

• 2:37:40Speaker 02

  With his pinky out, exactly.

• 2:37:41Speaker 00

  Like a gentleman.

• 2:37:42Speaker 01

  Uh, the film got five Oscar nominations, uh, but one zero. It also got screenplay, art direction, costume design, and a beautiful score by Elmer Bernstein.

• 2:37:51Speaker 00

  Incredible work, yeah.

• 2:37:52Speaker 01

  Who had just worked on Cape Fear or is about to work, I forget.

• 2:37:56Speaker 00

  Cape Fear's right after this, right? Cause it's the Schindler's List.

• 2:37:59Speaker 01

  Right before.

• 2:38:00Speaker 00

  It's right before, okay.

• 2:38:01Speaker 01

  Right before.

• 2:38:01Speaker 03

  Costume di- design is incredible.

• 2:38:03Speaker 00

  Pretty, pretty top notch.

• 2:38:05Speaker 03

  Everyone just looks amazing.

• 2:38:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:38:08Speaker 03

  I love all of his looks, in particular Dan's looks.

• 2:38:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, Dan's throwing fits in this movie.

• 2:38:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, but fight for two with the hats. It's just, this was like such a particular time of like this inflection point of like dressing very old timey and then into the modern.

• 2:38:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, transitional time.

• 2:38:28Speaker 03

  God, and the fucking interiors, these rooms, the silverware, the glassware.

• 2:38:35Speaker 00

  Ben wants to be one of these upper crust folks.

• 2:38:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38:38Speaker 03

  I mean, it's just, you look at an apartment like this and you're like, damn.

• 2:38:42Speaker 02

  Worth the trade off of being miserable forever to have, there's a moment where, um, uh, Maria Margolis is planning her big party and someone hands her a flip book of her own forks so she can choose which set of forks.

• 2:38:55Speaker 00

  The fork book.

• 2:38:56Speaker 02

  Someone has drawn a picture of all her forks, is like, do you wanna use this set of forks? For this set of forks or this set of forks? I'm like, damn, my forks is really bad.

• 2:39:04Speaker 00

  I would like to have a fork book. I don't need to have the forks themselves, but I like the idea of a fork book.

• 2:39:09Speaker 02

  Fork book.

• 2:39:09Speaker 00

  Uh, David Box Office?

• 2:39:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, uh, this film came out September, so just to clarify again, yes, uh, the film was filmed in nineteen ninety-two, early nineteen ninety-two.

• 2:39:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:39:19Speaker 01

  They wrapped, like, you know, uh.

• 2:39:22Speaker 00

  Spring or summer ninety-two?

• 2:39:24Speaker 01

  Right, June of ninety-two. The studio's like, great, can we release Christmas ninety-two? And Marty's like, no, no, no, no, no. Um, and so, you know, he takes his time. Variety has an article that says the director has an obsessive attention to detail. Excuse me, says Martin Scorsese.

• 2:39:40Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:39:40Speaker 01

  It's a starry state of affairs when just doing my job properly is described as obsessive, you know, um, whatever. He takes his time, he makes the movie. So it comes out, uh, September seventeenth, nineteen ninety-three. Um, it ends its domestic run at around thirty-two million dollars. Uh, you know, it did okay. Um, number, so it's opening number six at the box office.

• 2:39:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:40:00Speaker 01

  Number one, new this week.

• 2:40:01Speaker 00

  September ninety-three.

• 2:40:03Speaker 01

  Yes, is a, uh, forgotten action film.

• 2:40:07Speaker 00

  It's a forgotten action film.

• 2:40:08Speaker 01

  Starring Bruce Willis.

• 2:40:09Speaker 00

  Is it? It's not the boat one with Sarah Jessica Parker, is it?

• 2:40:14Speaker 01

  It is absolutely the boat one starring Sarah Jessica Parker, but what is it called?

• 2:40:18Speaker 00

  It's never come up in the box office game and I've always dreaded it because I can never remember this title.

• 2:40:22Speaker 01

  You know, made, I mean, he obviously had a lot of peaks and valleys, but certainly when he's a major star, uh, it sounds like an action movie. It's got a very generic.

• 2:40:31Speaker 00

  Is it like a three word title?

• 2:40:33Speaker 01

  Two words.

• 2:40:34Speaker 00

  Uh, i- i- is the word sudden in there?

• 2:40:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:40:39Speaker 00

  Um, it, does it, is it like a nautical pun at all or is it just like brutal hit?

• 2:40:44Speaker 01

  I, I will tell you that the film is called Striking Distance.

• 2:40:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds like a martial arts movie. That's why the title flips me.

• 2:40:51Speaker 01

  Does a bit.

• 2:40:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:40:52Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, Bruce Willis, Sarah Jessica Parker, Dennis Farina, Tom Sizemore, sounds like a kill set.

• 2:40:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:41:00Speaker 01

  Uh, never seen.

• 2:41:01Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:41:01Speaker 01

  Uh, this is a classic John Peters, uh, production, you know, Ben, John Peters is in charge of Sony in the nineties and, uh, leaves most of his creative decision making to cocaine.

• 2:41:11Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:41:12Speaker 01

  Uh, number.

• 2:41:12Speaker 00

  And cocaine got an EP credit on that movie.

• 2:41:15Speaker 01

  Number two at the box office is Best Picture nominee in nineteen ninety-three, an action film, one of the greats.

• 2:41:19Speaker 00

  The Fugitive.

• 2:41:20Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:41:21Speaker 00

  Uh, an August holdover that's still ruling the box office?

• 2:41:25Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:41:26Speaker 00

  It was August release.

• 2:41:27Speaker 01

  It's been out for quite a while.

• 2:41:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:41:29Speaker 01

  And it's made a hundred and fifty-four million dollars. Number three at the box office is a film I don't automatically know. It is a comedy, an action comedy.

• 2:41:40Speaker 00

  Okay, a two-hander?

• 2:41:42Speaker 01

  I mean, yes, but not A-list stars at this point.

• 2:41:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:41:50Speaker 01

  How to describe?

• 2:41:51Speaker 00

  How to describe?

• 2:41:53Speaker 01

  You got a lady who was pretty big in the eighties and is maybe just on a bit of a decline.

• 2:41:57Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:58Speaker 01

  And a guy who just never quite got to A-list, but is a very well-known actor. Uh, they're wearing sunglasses on the poster and so is a kid.

• 2:42:05Speaker 00

  Yep, it's undercover blues.

• 2:42:07Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:42:07Speaker 00

  Is it a Gary Marshall movie?

• 2:42:09Speaker 01

  It's Herbert Ross, another director of like comedies.

• 2:42:11Speaker 00

  It's, it's a poster I think about a lot because it's the two of them and the baby and they all got big A- Vator sunglasses on.

• 2:42:17Speaker 01

  They're a family of spies.

• 2:42:19Speaker 00

  I've never.

• 2:42:20Speaker 01

  Family of spies.

• 2:42:20Speaker 00

  I have never known what that movie's about.

• 2:42:22Speaker 01

  It is Kathleen Turner and Dennis Quaid as a wisecracking couple of spies who go on maternity leave because they have a daughter. And then I think, you know, some, some.

• 2:42:32Speaker 00

  Hijinks.

• 2:42:32Speaker 01

  Some hijinks ensue. We've got great British actress Fiona Shaw.

• 2:42:35Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:42:36Speaker 01

  And, uh, Stanley Tucci, a young Stanley Tucci.

• 2:42:38Speaker 00

  Touch of the touch.

• 2:42:39Speaker 01

  Number four at the box office is, uh, you know, kind of a classic action romantic crime thriller comedy.

• 2:42:48Speaker 00

  Action romantic crime thriller comedy.

• 2:42:50Speaker 01

  It's from a director we'll cover one day and it's from a screenwriter who loves to talk about Paul Dano.

• 2:42:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:42:59Speaker 02

  Oh, I think I know this one.

• 2:43:00Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 2:43:00Speaker 02

  It's true romance, it's true romance.

• 2:43:02Speaker 01

  True Romance, uh, the Tony Scott film. What do you think of that picture?

• 2:43:08Speaker 00

  It's fine. It's never been one of my favorites.

• 2:43:11Speaker 01

  True romance girl.

• 2:43:13Speaker 02

  Uh, I wouldn't say I'm a big true romance girl, but, uh, I did watch it sometime recently and kind of enjoyed it.

• 2:43:21Speaker 00

  It's fun.

• 2:43:21Speaker 02

  James Gandolfini shows up.

• 2:43:23Speaker 00

  Gandolfini in that era is just like money in the bank for me. You fucking get shorty.

• 2:43:27Speaker 01

  It's a movie with a lot of guys doing a lot of stuff.

• 2:43:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:43:31Speaker 01

  Uh, it was such a cult classic, obviously for Gen X, and so when I was a young film fan, I kind of was like, well, this is like a cult classic, right? Like, this is a really big movie.

• 2:43:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:43:39Speaker 01

  And I watched it and was like, I mean, it's pretty funny and it's stylish and like, and I've seen it like twice. It's never been a big movie for me. So, one day we'll revisit it.

• 2:43:46Speaker 02

  One thing I do love about it is that, um, the scene early on where they're like sitting outside of the apartment, um, or like, they have a movie theater. Anyway, the movie theater is very clearly the vista, um, and you can see, it's meant to be in like Detroit or something, right?

• 2:44:02Speaker 01

  Uh, sure.

• 2:44:03Speaker 02

  And you can see a big sign that says Sunset Boulevard. And I'm like, that's, that's my movie theater.

• 2:44:09Speaker 01

  Ben, you had something to say about True Romance?

• 2:44:11Speaker 03

  I kind of have to admit that it was a Big Ben movie.

• 2:44:16Speaker 01

  Hawaiian shirts.

• 2:44:17Speaker 02

  Big Ben movie.

• 2:44:17Speaker 01

  Ding dong.

• 2:44:17Speaker 03

  I did though, then watch it kind of more recently and I was like, some of this has not aged.

• 2:44:23Speaker 01

  Some of it's not aged perfect.

• 2:44:25Speaker 00

  That, that doesn't hold up well.

• 2:44:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh-huh.

• 2:44:27Speaker 01

  Dennis Hopper saying that.

• 2:44:27Speaker 02

  Mandatory.

• 2:44:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44:29Speaker 02

  End word segment of every Tarantino.

• 2:44:32Speaker 03

  I will quickly share, I briefly worked on the Amy Schumer podcast course with the, the great title, Three Girls, One Keith.

• 2:44:40Speaker 00

  Self-evident. You know exactly what that podcast is.

• 2:44:43Speaker 03

  Tarantino was the guest.

• 2:44:45Speaker 00

  Mm-huh.

• 2:44:45Speaker 03

  I can't really share on mic, but I'll share off mic some of the nonsense.

• 2:44:50Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 2:44:50Speaker 03

  That, uh, had to be, uh, put in place in order to arrange for that to happen.

• 2:44:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:44:56Speaker 03

  He said that that speech.

• 2:44:58Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:44:59Speaker 03

  Is the best piece of writing he's ever done.

• 2:45:02Speaker 00

  Great.

• 2:45:03Speaker 03

  Isn't that insane?

• 2:45:04Speaker 00

  Yep. And that's weird, because every other take he's thrown out is normal.

• 2:45:08Speaker 03

  I know, right? It was so out of character for him.

• 2:45:11Speaker 00

  What was his recent thing where he was like, oh, the movies suck now, theatrical is dead, except for the rip. I watched it five times on Netflix. Pick a fucking lane, my guy.

• 2:45:19Speaker 01

  He won't.

• 2:45:21Speaker 00

  And he loves Rise in Part Two. He's in the limited club of people who have seen it.

• 2:45:25Speaker 01

  So number five at the box office is the directorial debut of an actor who will go on to win an Oscar pretty soon.

• 2:45:32Speaker 00

  Um, it's not Man Without a Face, is it?

• 2:45:35Speaker 01

  That's exactly what it is.

• 2:45:36Speaker 00

  No Gibson's The Man Without a Face. Exactly what it is.

• 2:45:39Speaker 01

  A man was without a face. Number six is Age of Innocence. Number seven is Jurassic Park. Heard of it?

• 2:45:44Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:45:45Speaker 01

  Number eight is, yeah, number eight is Sleepless in Seattle.

• 2:45:49Speaker 00

  Big hit.

• 2:45:49Speaker 01

  Heard of it? Number nine is the Irish film Into the West, starring Gabriel Byrne and Ellen Barkin, which is sort of like a, kind of like an Irish traveler western. I've never seen it. Mike Newell movie.

• 2:46:04Speaker 00

  Yes, that was like a film where the critics were like,

• 2:46:08Speaker 01

  Charming.

• 2:46:08Speaker 00

  Why won't parents take their kids to this instead of whatever family film slop? That this is a cut above.

• 2:46:13Speaker 01

  Right. Sorry, I don't know.

• 2:46:15Speaker 00

  I've never seen it. Yeah, I don't know. People like it.

• 2:46:17Speaker 01

  Sorry, I guess they wanted to see Jurassic Park. Number 10 is a movie called The Real McCoy, which is a crime film starring Kim Basinger and Val Kilmer. It's this early 90s era, like speaking of Kathleen Turner, Kim Basinger, Val Kilmer, Janice Quaid, where Hollywood's like, who's the, who's the next guys? Who are we, who are we getting?

• 2:46:39Speaker 00

  There's also a wave of like,

• 2:46:40Speaker 01

  Somebodies, you know?

• 2:46:42Speaker 00

  A-listers, if that makes sense.

• 2:46:43Speaker 01

  It's like, you can put this person's name over a title. They're not as famous as the big shots.

• 2:46:47Speaker 00

  But they don't cost that much and we're just making sort of programmers and maybe if one of these hits, then a person jumps up. Yeah. Age of Innocence is very good. Excellent film, great movie.

• 2:46:56Speaker 02

  Yep. Yeah, it's a good one. I do like thinking about the guy who is going on a date to the movie theater and this is 1993. And his date says, do you want to go and see the new Martin Scorsese movie?

• 2:47:11Speaker 00

  He's cocking his gun.

• 2:47:12Speaker 02

  And he's like, fuck yeah.

• 2:47:13Speaker 00

  He's packing a fucking jar marinara in his jacket.

• 2:47:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can't wait.

• 2:47:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:47:18Speaker 02

  And then he gets there and it's girl stuff.

• 2:47:21Speaker 00

  It's girl stuff. We regret to inform you it's girl stuff.

• 2:47:24Speaker 01

  People who barely can kiss?

• 2:47:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then there isn't even any finger in the carriage, so.

• 2:47:30Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 2:47:31Speaker 02

  I was legitimately surprised that there was not any sex in this movie. I was expecting, you know?

• 2:47:37Speaker 01

  Next time you're on, we'll do some, you know,

• 2:47:40Speaker 02

  Can we use some porno on this fucking podcast?

• 2:47:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll just do a porn. We'll do a porn.

• 2:47:44Speaker 00

  We'll do a porn. We'll do a fucking Damiano or whatever his name is.

• 2:47:49Speaker 01

  I don't know what that is, but cool.

• 2:47:50Speaker 00

  Director Levon Puppets.

• 2:47:51Speaker 03

  But what would we talk about?

• 2:47:53Speaker 00

  Just like,

• 2:47:53Speaker 01

  The plot.

• 2:47:54Speaker 00

  What do you mean, Ben?

• 2:47:55Speaker 01

  The plot?

• 2:47:55Speaker 00

  The plot.

• 2:47:57Speaker 01

  The cinematography.

• 2:47:59Speaker 02

  Almost an idea for a podcast, try and find the best movie, like the porno that is the best movie.

• 2:48:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:48:07Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:48:07Speaker 00

  The performance.

• 2:48:08Speaker 01

  That would, that is not a bad idea for a podcast. Like you keep watching porn and being like, all right, so as a movie, this is kind of like a four out of 10. Let's see if we can top that.

• 2:48:17Speaker 00

  We're getting ready to do Dracula on our Patreon and I've decided to take on a side project because we're doing a curated Dracula of like the five, kind of, not biggest, but eras of different people playing Dracula. So we're doing like the first Christopher Lee, but not the remaining nine times that he played Dracula and stuff. And so I've been like working on a side project of assembling weird Dracula adaptations that I want to watch as like extracurricular for this series. And I did finally do a thing I had not, I had not crossed this line before as a physical media collector. I did purchase a, a 4K disc of Dracula Sucks, a movie in which John Holmes, victim of the Wonderland murders.

• 2:48:57Speaker 01

  Famous porn star.

• 2:48:58Speaker 00

  Yes. Plays a Dracula who gets sucked off a lot.

• 2:49:01Speaker 02

  Right. That makes sense. Yeah.

• 2:49:03Speaker 00

  And it hasn't arrived yet. It's showing up in my vinegar syndrome box, but I, in theory have made some commitment to myself. I've at least committed American dollars to the highest resolution possible physical copy of a Dracula porn movie.

• 2:49:16Speaker 01

  This time the count is not only going for the throat.

• 2:49:19Speaker 00

  Okay, there are other things that he likes to suck on.

• 2:49:22Speaker 01

  That's what the tagline says.

• 2:49:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, lollipops.

• 2:49:25Speaker 02

  Wait, does that, does he eat pussy?

• 2:49:26Speaker 00

  I think he fucking does.

• 2:49:28Speaker 02

  I hope he does.

• 2:49:28Speaker 01

  Dracula's, you know,

• 2:49:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:30Speaker 00

  I'll report back.

• 2:49:31Speaker 01

  He's a considerate lover, I think.

• 2:49:32Speaker 00

  That's what's funny about calling it Dracula Sucks, because it feels like the easier joke is like sucking off Dracula.

• 2:49:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:49:38Speaker 01

  Well, sure. Right. But Dracula Sucks has a certain panache.

• 2:49:42Speaker 00

  It does. Yeah, yeah.

• 2:49:44Speaker 01

  But you're right, right. Is he, is he sucking some dicks?

• 2:49:48Speaker 00

  I don't know. I'm gonna, I will report back.

• 2:49:51Speaker 01

  Was going on as much in the seventies. I don't really know.

• 2:49:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:49:56Speaker 01

  I'm not sure why we just talked about porn for a bit, but it was so nice to have you, Libby.

• 2:50:01Speaker 02

  Hey, thanks.

• 2:50:01Speaker 01

  And you should come on back.

• 2:50:03Speaker 02

  I would love to. I had such a good time and I'm so glad I watched a movie.

• 2:50:07Speaker 01

  Can I come back on your podcast?

• 2:50:09Speaker 02

  Yes, obviously.

• 2:50:10Speaker 00

  And I could do Wambles app?

• 2:50:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:50:11Speaker 00

  Okay, we can like, we can focus it to one specific silo of Wambles.

• 2:50:15Speaker 02

  No, we can just do the Wambles.

• 2:50:17Speaker 03

  And I could do Dobby?

• 2:50:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course you can, honey.

• 2:50:21Speaker 00

  You're gonna try to reclaim Dobby, separate Dobby from the artist?

• 2:50:24Speaker 03

  Just Dobby?

• 2:50:24Speaker 00

  Just Dobby?

• 2:50:25Speaker 02

  When we do Harry Potter Month, then we'll have you on for Dobby.

• 2:50:29Speaker 00

  Dobby, Dobby innocent. Ben's bright red.

• 2:50:33Speaker 02

  Dobby sucks, dude.

• 2:50:35Speaker 03

  Don't you dare.

• 2:50:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'd kick him into that ocean, no problem.

• 2:50:41Speaker 00

  What's all this then? Everyone should listen.

• 2:50:42Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. Yes. Start with the David episode.

• 2:50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, you listen to my apps, but there's so many good apps and it's a great podcast and you subscribe to their Patreon, which is also great.

• 2:50:51Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:50:52Speaker 00

  How can people find you on Twitch and such?

• 2:50:55Speaker 02

  Twitch, I'm at twitch.tv slash Libtron.

• 2:50:58Speaker 00

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:50:59Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, where What's All This Pod, most places on social media, but not Twitter, because that place is shite. And yeah.

• 2:51:07Speaker 00

  Sorry, let's just do Ben, quick pickup. Libby, you made a mistake. You said that X is shite, rather than being the everything site.

• 2:51:16Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. No, that is, I meant that. I meant the everything shite.

• 2:51:19Speaker 00

  It's called X and it's the everything site.

• 2:51:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. And yeah, all of our episodes are also on YouTube, so you can go check those out.

• 2:51:27Speaker 00

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:51:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:51:30Speaker 00

  Thank you all for listening. Good pod. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for Casino?

• 2:51:37Speaker 01

  Next week on this show, we will of course be discussing Casino.

• 2:51:39Speaker 00

  We're gonna roll the dice on Casino.

• 2:51:43Speaker 03

  On our Patreon, we just wrapped up, actually today, the day this episode releases, our final installment of the Resident Evil commentary series with Welcome to Raccoon City.

• 2:51:55Speaker 00

  We're gonna welcome you to Raccoon City and then of course,

• 2:51:58Speaker 01

  Not a good film.

• 2:51:59Speaker 00

  We'll, we'll move on from that to 1931 Dracula, which may include a description of the Dracula porn movie if I watched it by then. We'll see. Or maybe I'm a coward.

• 2:52:08Speaker 02

  Listen to that.

• 2:52:10Speaker 00

  And as always, all of these people absolutely shit 10 hours a day because that food is fucking revolting.

• 2:52:21Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ali Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check special features

• 2:53:03Speaker 03

  for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.