Cape Fear with Eva Anderson

We spent 15 years in prison reading the North Carolina penal code and getting absolutely jacked to prepare for this episode. The great Eva Anderson joins us to talk about Cape Fear and all that that encompasses - the nasty 1991 Scorsese thriller, the 1962 Peck/Mitchum classic, the John MacDonald novel The Executioners, this year's wacky Apple TV miniseries, and of course - the classic Simpsons episode. Get ready for some bad Max Cady impressions, a rundown of the ludicrous MTV Movie Awards Best Kiss category, and a detour into the 2004 Billy Crystal-hosted Oscars opening, which Eva worked on. Every man has to go through podcasts to reach paradise. Watch Billy at the 2004 Oscars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZEbwDyUe3Y Watch Margos Got Money Troubles https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&pf=1&ai=DChsSEwiN9O_t8tCXAxX4J9QBHc0yLy8YACICCAEQABoCb2E&co=1&ase=2&gclid=CjwKCAjwi-zWBhAdEiwAqlRf-E5M2sk-I4t0IqxnkpHVUzk5vgryVzTDLOoQFWtKJSnwSJaosudKRxoC_9sQAvD_BwE&cid=CAASuwHkaLpoja3AqFZ--6g9iYcEyGDCf67uON722bX9iopO1xkhasyC803aW03-2NRCdH7xjpKuIJnPvqaJffwYEYe9y8xqJ0jzzgc28GPpa7DlWCeqQ4Of0RCw530dAiguRfO_oe7c1r6bQgEsXZiwGFrAbBn1xQW98siN_nMpLoortJovEhFBiPXkGpxKRt7zXOewVaGenHSo83TiRawvp8kepn_GNOSROYIiMzNgLz7_1JMyk9gitdDqvQXp&cce=2&category=acrcp_v1_32&sig=AOD64_3w_ClbXskACLZNSEn94drRb3EKsg&q&nis=4&adurl=https://tv.apple.com/us/show/margos-got-money-troubles/umc.cmc.6wgw0u6vuwydp6obbzzccup3w?app%3Dtv%26cid%3Dwwa-us-kwgo-tvp-slid-%26itscg%3DMC_20000%26itsct%3Datvp_brand_omd%26mttnsiteid%3D143238%26mttnagencyid%3Da5e%26mkwid%3D%26mttncc%3DUS%26mttn3pid%3DGoogle%2520AdWords%26mttnsubplmnt%3D_adext_%26mttnsubad%3DOUS20191252_1-804735285507-c%26mttnsubkw%3D199134541332_kwd-2470003022136__&ved=2ahUKEwjO5-jt8tCXAxW3nGoFHR7BG28Q0Qx6BAg_EAQ and Party Down https://www.netflix.com/title/70140422 Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck-- Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:35Griffin Newman?

  Every man carries a circle of hell around his head like a halo. Your daddy too. Every man, every man has to go through hell to reach his podcast. I can't do Max Cady.

• 0:46David Sims?

  No, but I mean, you, you're doing a, you know.

• 0:50Griffin Newman?

  A lilting southern gentleman.

• 0:52David Sims?

  You're doing a not foot to the floor, you know, version of it.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Every man, yeah, but it's, cause he does go, he goes into a high register.

• 1:00David Sims?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02David Sims?

  No, he's a, just um, a little more jalapeno in the gumbo or whatever.

• 1:09Griffin Newman?

  There is, it's a spicy gumbo. I thought about doing the tagline, Sam Bowden has always provided for his family's future, but his past is coming back to, well, no, but the podcast is coming back to haunt them. That's what it should be. This is the best opening I've ever done. It's the strongest, the most powerful.

• 1:25David Sims?

  Let's see if there's any other taglines around here, cause this feels like a classic. No.

• 1:30Griffin Newman?

  From the acclaimed director of Goodfellas, which was a pretty compelling tagline.

• 1:33David Sims?

  It's just a great poster.

• 1:35Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 1:36David Sims?

  The, the eyes, you know, you know, the poster, yeah.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  But also the ripped photo.

• 1:40David Sims?

  And the ripped photo.

• 1:41Griffin Newman?

  And the water and the boat and the lightning. It's, it's a pretty perfect poster.

• 1:45David Sims?

  And a great, a great title.

• 1:49Griffin Newman?

  Cape Fear?

• 1:50David Sims?

  To the point that the movie basically starts with Juliette Lewis being like, I don't know why they call it Cape Fear, kind of a crazy thing to call something. It's just like, yeah, you know why? Cause it's a great title for a movie, baby.

• 1:59Griffin Newman?

  Especially when the book was called The Executioners, which is a terrible title for this story.

• 2:03David Sims?

  That is true.

• 2:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:04David Sims?

  Um, is it a real place, Cape Fear? It is, right?

• 2:07Griffin Newman?

  It is. Gregory Peck was the one who demanded they change the title.

• 2:11David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:11Griffin Newman?

  Because he thought The Executioner sounded trashy. And he was like, Cape Fear, like saw it on a map. It was like, Cape Fear, that's a good name.

• 2:19David Sims?

  It is a good name.

• 2:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20David Sims?

  So it's not like he was like, I have a vacation in Cape Fear once in autumn and I think we should do a movie about it.

• 2:28Griffin Newman?

  He invested in property in Cape Fear and was trying to drive up the value.

• 2:32David Sims?

  Uh, no one will buy it because they're afraid of it. They think it's a scary place. So let's make the scariest movie possible about it and then everyone will move in. Uh, why is it called Cape Fear? Let's see.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  It's in Florida?

• 2:47David Sims?

  No, it's in North Carolina.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:50David Sims?

  Uh, in the Tidewater region, near Wilmington.

• 2:53Griffin Newman?

  He was responsible for the title of the film as he found the novel title, kind of a turnoff quote.

• 2:58David Sims?

  It's kind of a bad title for, it doesn't tell you what the movie is gonna be about. Yeah.

• 3:02Griffin Newman?

  Happened to find the Cape Fear region when looking for Atlantic coast locations. That's all that's said on Wikipedia.

• 3:07David Sims?

  I'm just loving the idea that he's just like, calls J. Lee Thompson, is like, I'm reading this here, Atlas. Now, I'm not sure why I'm making Gregory Peck into this sort of like, you know, Kentucky Fried Chicken character.

• 3:19Griffin Newman?

  Colonel Sanders.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  He's famously waspy.

• 3:23David Sims?

  I know. I mean, he did play Atticus Finch.

• 3:25Griffin Newman?

  I am reading this thing.

• 3:27David Sims?

  Just like, you know, it's like, huh, I cracked open the Atlas today. My favorite book to read, The Atlas.

• 3:32Griffin Newman?

  Now you sound like Gregory Peck.

• 3:34David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. My impression of Gregory Peck, I would need glasses. I feel like I'm just like holding a pair of glasses.

• 3:40Griffin Newman?

  I found an interesting name on a map.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  I think the book takes place in Florida too.

• 3:45Griffin Newman?

  I think that's right.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  And they have a little boat, but it's just like.

• 3:49David Sims?

  The book's just different.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  The book is just like, we have a little boat we go out on. It's on a houseboat. We never reach a houseboat. There's a sun, the sun gets shot with a gun in the shoulder.

• 3:57Griffin Newman?

  Oh, right. They take out a kid entirely?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Well, they just like shoot him in the arm.

• 4:01Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:02Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it's a perfect premise. There's a reason this keeps getting made. I do think it is a perfect premise.

• 4:08David Sims?

  Sure, what, okay. When you say a perfect premise, do you just mean like, what if there was a guy that was so bad and he wouldn't leave you alone?

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:16David Sims?

  Just sort of like the guy from hell.

• 4:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 4:18David Sims?

  Cause like Bill Simmons talks a lot about like X from hell, right? It's like a great premise. So it's like the house from hell, the neighbor from hell, roommate from hell. That's always good. But Cape Fear is like, let's boil it down even more simple, just the worst guy ever hates you.

• 4:31Griffin Newman?

  I think.

• 4:31David Sims?

  Cause you fucked up and like you maybe, you know, you maybe have a little bit of it coming.

• 4:36Griffin Newman?

  I think that's the added element.

• 4:37David Sims?

  Which is the, right.

• 4:38Griffin Newman?

  You fucked up his case in some way.

• 4:40David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 4:41Griffin Newman?

  And he has spent his entire prison sentence planning to fuck with you.

• 4:44David Sims?

  Learning how to fuck you, yes. But it is just funny that it's like fundamentally what's going on is like, this guy just won't leave you alone.

• 4:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 4:50David Sims?

  And unfortunately, he's scary and a psycho.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  In the book though, The Executioners, which is like a hundred pages long.

• 4:57Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  It's very short.

• 4:59Griffin Newman?

  A novella.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  It's that the lawyer, who's, who's the name of the character? Who's Nick Nolte?

• 5:05David Sims?

  Uh, Nick Nolte, do you want me to use?

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Sam Bowden.

• 5:07David Sims?

  He is Sam Yul G. Bowden.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  So in the book, Bowden just was a soldier.

• 5:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Who caught Katie assaulting somebody while he were soldiering.

• 5:20David Sims?

  Yes, he testified against him.

• 5:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  He didn't do anything wrong.

• 5:24David Sims?

  Do the whole like, I buried, you know, the evidence that might've saved you thing. Yeah, that's not in the book.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Weirdly Gregory Peck in this, in 62 version was like a lawyer that walked past an alley and caught him assaulting somebody, but he also just testified against him. He's just a lawyer.

• 5:39Griffin Newman?

  This version is the best version of the setup.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, he did something wrong.

• 5:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  He lied and buried evidence.

• 5:45David Sims?

  The Scorsese version.

• 5:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 5:46David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Well, it makes the most sense. It's like he has a grievance now and also Nolte is like guilty for something. Wait, I didn't realize that there was an original film.

• 5:54David Sims?

  There's an original film. It is good.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  It's awesome.

• 5:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's really good.

• 5:58David Sims?

  But yes, in the original film, he's, it's more irrationally like, well, you just blew my case.

• 6:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 6:03David Sims?

  Cause I was found guilty.

• 6:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 6:05David Sims?

  And it's like, well, you were found guilty because here, as we can tell, a bit of a scary individual who does bad things.

• 6:10Griffin Newman?

  But in the book and the original movie, it's more like, you caught me, I've never gotten over that.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:15Griffin Newman?

  Versus you had a responsibility, which it's, it's the greatest aspect of Max Cady that he just spent 14 years in prison.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Just doing pushups.

• 6:23Griffin Newman?

  Learning law.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  And yeah, learning law.

• 6:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:26David Sims?

  Learning to read.

• 6:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Robert Mitchum is really awesome in the 60s version. I do recommend. His, he has really cool hats and he's a really chill version of Max Cady.

• 6:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  One other thing about the book is that the book's all from the point of view of Bowden, like it's in his head and you barely get to know Max Cady at all. It's just like, he's like Jaws. He's just like, he'll pop up, yeah, and then disappear. But he like, he, as soon as they had to put him on film, Max Cady becomes the star of the movie in a way, but in the book, it's about this horny lawyer who like loves his wife and his dog.

• 7:02Griffin Newman?

  When does Night of the Hunter come out relative to, it's 55, so it's seven years earlier.

• 7:08David Sims?

  So yeah, many years earlier.

• 7:10Griffin Newman?

  Cause I, it's one of the things I find interesting about this movie is it also feels like Scorsese kind of folds Night of the Hunter into Cape Fear.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 7:18Griffin Newman?

  Like he's sort of remaking both movies.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, especially with the river and.

• 7:23Griffin Newman?

  Stylistically.

• 7:24David Sims?

  And just the southern Gothic-ness and all that.

• 7:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes. And the performance is almost closer.

• 7:28David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 7:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 7:29David Sims?

  Robert Mitchum.

• 7:31Griffin Newman?

  Good actor.

• 7:31David Sims?

  Cool ass movie star.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  He's so fucking cool as Max Cady.

• 7:36Griffin Newman?

  So cool.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  He like always has his hat just like tilted down over his eyes.

• 7:41David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  And he just like comes up to a woman in one scene and she's like, are you trying to make a pass at me or something? He goes like, yep. And then he just walks away.

• 7:50Griffin Newman?

  He's so relaxed.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  He's very relaxed Max Cady. And then he's just sort of like, a woman wants to, is fine just having regular sex with him. He's like, that's not what I do. And then she's like, I gotta get out of town. The next time you see her, it's like, he's just a horrible rapist.

• 8:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Canonically.

• 8:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 8:09David Sims?

  Cape Fear, um, is the movie we're discussing on this podcast.

• 8:14Griffin Newman?

  Is the subject of this episode.

• 8:15David Sims?

  It's the subject of our podcast.

• 8:17Griffin Newman?

  Which is called Blank Check with Griffin and David, and I am Griffin.

• 8:21David Sims?

  Uh, and I'm David.

• 8:22Griffin Newman?

  That was a classic long one. That was a real.

• 8:25David Sims?

  It really was.

• 8:26Griffin Newman?

  Burger King Chicken Long Boy.

• 8:29David Sims?

  Do they still have those?

• 8:30Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:31David Sims?

  And it's just like, what if it was longer?

• 8:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 8:34David Sims?

  Like that's the gimmick.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  I feel like I have only.

• 8:37David Sims?

  It's just chicken sandwich.

• 8:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, flat and long.

• 8:40David Sims?

  And dry.

• 8:41Griffin Newman?

  And dry. I feel like I've only ever gotten them at airports.

• 8:46David Sims?

  It's just funny that they're like, oh, you can't just do the McChicken.

• 8:49Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 8:49David Sims?

  Well, what if it's like a rectangle? Is that different enough?

• 8:53Griffin Newman?

  But I feel like when they started, that was their only chicken option to differentiate. And now they're also like, okay, fine, we'll have a regular looking chicken sandwich.

• 9:00David Sims?

  Right, they do.

• 9:01Griffin Newman?

  I think they do, right?

• 9:02David Sims?

  Yeah, because Chick-fil-A made it so that everyone had to have one, I think.

• 9:05Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 9:05David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:05Griffin Newman?

  But they still got that long boy, I believe. Let's double check that. Will you double check that while I introduce the podcast?

• 9:10David Sims?

  Does it have a name apart from Long Boy?

• 9:12Speaker 02

  It's called a, it's, were you talking about Burger King?

• 9:15Griffin Newman?

  Burger King Chicken Long Boy.

• 9:16David Sims?

  It is called the Long Chicken.

• 9:18Griffin Newman?

  It's called the Long Chicken? That is incredible.

• 9:21David Sims?

  Long time favorite since 1979.

• 9:25Griffin Newman?

  Wow, okay. So they got there early.

• 9:28David Sims?

  Yes.

• 9:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 9:29David Sims?

  But they do, of course, as you said, uh, they, they also have, uh, the BK Chicken Crisp, which is just kind of like a McChicken. And then they have something called French Chicken, which is a long boy with like bacon and Swiss.

• 9:41Griffin Newman?

  Hmm, interesting.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  It's like a Cordon Bleu.

• 9:46Griffin Newman?

  Okay, interesting. It seems like it was originally called the original chicken sandwich.

• 9:50David Sims?

  Sure.

• 9:51Griffin Newman?

  And then they redubbed it The Long Boy, once they added the regular sized chicken, possibly?

• 9:56Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 9:58David Sims?

  Uh, that makes sense. That makes sense. Because they were basically like, we know what you call it.

• 10:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 10:03David Sims?

  Like, you know, we know what you think it is in your head.

• 10:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 10:07David Sims?

  It's the long one.

• 10:08Griffin Newman?

  If you want it long, that's what you should say. This is a podcast about chicken sandwiches.

• 10:13David Sims?

  What if they had a machine that could make anything stretched? So you could just sort of be like, hey, can I get like a Baconator and just stretch it? Oh, that's Wendy's. But you know, like whatever, BK King, just stretch.

• 10:22Griffin Newman?

  A long whopper.

• 10:23David Sims?

  Yeah, just make it, yeah, a long whopper. Make it a rectangle for me.

• 10:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:26David Sims?

  Yeah, that's all.

• 10:27Griffin Newman?

  What if they just announced that was their angle? This is how we're competing with all other fast food chains. We do everything longer. Two foot french fries. Long fries.

• 10:36David Sims?

  That's, or maybe you could make square french fries. You could go opposite.

• 10:40Griffin Newman?

  Well, then that's sort of stepping on Wendy's White Castle territory. I feel like they own the square shit.

• 10:45David Sims?

  I mean, I know Wendy's is like, they're doing the whole thing where we're like, we know we're bad.

• 10:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:49David Sims?

  We're so sorry.

• 10:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 10:51David Sims?

  But I'm like, that's not enough. Like, they're bad now. No one cares. And White Castle's beyond, no one goes to White Castle. That's like a recipe for disaster.

• 10:58Griffin Newman?

  Pizza Turnaround, the Domino's campaign, one of the greatest advertising campaigns of all time. They were smart enough to go, we have to do this in one fell swoop. We have to do one ad in which we read the feedback, go, this is tough. We're announcing we're about to get better. Here's how we're better.

• 11:14David Sims?

  Right.

• 11:14Griffin Newman?

  Here are the new recipes.

• 11:15David Sims?

  And they did, right. They were like, we have a new sauce or whatever. Right.

• 11:18Griffin Newman?

  Cheese. But it was, it was all in one, it was all in one ad, right? It was one campaign was like, here's what's been going on for the last year.

• 11:26David Sims?

  Step three, yeah.

• 11:27Griffin Newman?

  And now, new items, right? New recipes. Wendy's, the CEO just keeps going like, I apologize. I put profits above taste and our food has been terrible.

• 11:37David Sims?

  Anyway, see you soon.

• 11:38Griffin Newman?

  End of statement. And you're like, what?

• 11:40David Sims?

  I mean, I said this, and this is, this episode's coming up pretty soon. So like, I think, you know, I told you this about, um, you know, when I was thinking about the social reckoning. Where I'm like, has Aaron Sorkin said on any, in any interview, like, I'm happy Jeremy Strong was in my movie and he did a good job? Cause I feel like every interview I read with him, he's just like, ah, man, I just can't believe Jesse Eisenberg turned me down. I wrote this for.

• 12:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 12:05David Sims?

  I had a meeting. I told him I was gonna send him this script and I don't know what happened.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  He did say like, just, the Strong was the greatest living actor.

• 12:13David Sims?

  Sure, he's butter. I mean, obviously he's worked with them multiple times. Like, I don't think there's any enmity. But if I'm Jeremy Strong, at a certain point, I'm like, I get it. I was not the first choice. And it's just like a weird way to advertise a movie that it's like, a good actor turned this down, by the way. He didn't want to do it. I don't know why.

• 12:29Griffin Newman?

  And I took no lessons from that.

• 12:31David Sims?

  Maybe he smelled something? Who knows? Anyway.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  Weirdly, he's like a writer director now, making his own movies? And he knows when scripts are good?

• 12:38David Sims?

  That does, yeah. Speak to something perhaps? Uh, it's just, like, cause it's so easy. You could just be like, oh, well, you know, like, you know, that movie was a long time ago and I understand him not wanting to repeat the performance. Like, you just say that.

• 12:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 12:52David Sims?

  Anyway, just funny to me. And that's what Wendy's doing. Like, we know, we're, it's no good. Anyway, we're open from like 10 to 6. You can come anytime if you want, like. A lot of locations.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  You close at 6?

• 13:04David Sims?

  I don't know when they close. When does Wendy's close?

• 13:08Griffin Newman?

  6 feels like they're not even Friday.

• 13:10David Sims?

  I guess it's a good point. If it's like, someone's like, well, I'm off work.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  You close at the beginning of dinner time?

• 13:16Griffin Newman?

  Wendy's, if I were you, I would not be cutting out the drunk person market. I would make sure I was keeping the doors open.

• 13:22David Sims?

  Apparently most Wendy's close at midnight. Okay, fair enough.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  All right. That's the first step to being better.

• 13:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. We promise we're not gonna close.

• 13:31David Sims?

  Griffin, who's our guest?

• 13:32Griffin Newman?

  This is a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear, sometimes they bounce baby, and sometimes they do one for them. This is Marty's third one for them in his career.

• 13:49David Sims?

  So, uh, Color of Money?

• 13:51Griffin Newman?

  Boxcar Birth is the original.

• 13:52David Sims?

  Sure.

• 13:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 13:54David Sims?

  Little different where it's just like, look, I'll do anything.

• 13:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 13:57David Sims?

  He was Nolte mode there. And then he went Nolte mode again.

• 13:59Griffin Newman?

  I'll do anything.

• 14:01David Sims?

  In Cape Fear.

• 14:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Um, but, but a fascinating film that ended up being, much like Color of Money, his highest grossing film up until that point in time.

• 14:10David Sims?

  Um.

• 14:11Griffin Newman?

  I believe that's true.

• 14:12David Sims?

  I, I was certainly.

• 14:13Griffin Newman?

  It's impossible to check now. Yeah.

• 14:15David Sims?

  Uh, that's actually good. All right. So Color of Money.

• 14:19Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:19David Sims?

  Made, come on now, come on, numbers. Come on now, wake up for me. $52 million domestic. Very good. Cape Fear made 79 million.

• 14:27Griffin Newman?

  Quite robust.

• 14:28David Sims?

  And I don't think that gets eclipsed until Aviator, right? What did Gangs of New York make?

• 14:35Griffin Newman?

  Gangs of New York made like 70?

• 14:36David Sims?

  Yeah, like, I know it didn't make 100, but it made, it made 77. So, you know, not as, yeah. And then Casino made 42. Right, yeah. So, yeah, this is Scorsese's biggest domestic hit, and I'm sure worldwide hit.

• 14:51Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:52David Sims?

  And, uh, that is funny, in a way, considering that this is a very dark and violent movie.

• 14:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 14:59David Sims?

  That's very fucked up.

• 15:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 15:02David Sims?

  And honestly, got like, good, but not even amazing reviews. You know what I mean? Like.

• 15:07Griffin Newman?

  It's also weirdly stylized.

• 15:10David Sims?

  Yeah, it is, is a bit of an exercise, one might argue.

• 15:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 15:14David Sims?

  Right?

• 15:15Griffin Newman?

  But it kind of played like a Hollywood thriller. And it got multiple Oscar nominations. And it entered the culture.

• 15:21David Sims?

  It entered the culture and was parodied by The Simpsons. And like, obviously, The Simpsons parody now stands alone as the most important adaptation of, uh, the novel by Jane Tom McDonald, The Executioner.

• 15:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's the, it's the final perfect form of this killer premise.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Except for than the play, the Mr. Burns.

• 15:38Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well.

• 15:39David Sims?

  The post electric play?

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Where they do the Simpsons episode of Cape Fear in Mr. Burns. So that, it goes one step further.

• 15:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:46David Sims?

  And that's, and Digger is kind of doing Mr. Burns, a post electric, we can talk about this.

• 15:50Griffin Newman?

  Can we talk about this now?

• 15:52David Sims?

  It's out. It's probably gone at this point. You don't think we can talk about it?

• 15:56Griffin Newman?

  I was betting that Digger was a Kaiju movie. I was wrong about this. I thought the big twist in Digger was gonna be that Digger has to fight a Kaiju with a, with a shovel. Have you seen Digger?

• 16:05Speaker 02

  I haven't seen it yet, but the twist is that the world ends, and then he has to deal with it.

• 16:09David Sims?

  No, uh, the, I mean, the movie's been out for a month. Truly, I can say.

• 16:14Griffin Newman?

  People are gonna get mad at us.

• 16:15David Sims?

  Number one, it's not the twist, it is the premise. Cause I put it in my review. I was like, I can't review this movie without discussing the conceit of the movie.

• 16:22Griffin Newman?

  And I've said this to you, I think they should have marketed with the twist.

• 16:25David Sims?

  Yes, I, I don't, it would have been hard, but, uh, no, the premise is that what we are watching is a play that is dramatizing events that already happened.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Okay, got it, got it.

• 16:34David Sims?

  And is sort of like satirizing or trying to work through this sort of whatever.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  It's Birdman again?

• 16:39Griffin Newman?

  But the world is in a bad place, so it's very Mr. Burns.

• 16:42David Sims?

  It's not like the world ended. It's not quite as apocalyptic as Mr. Burns, but we are in a, right, a, a sort of environmentally catastrophic future.

• 16:49Griffin Newman?

  Things suck.

• 16:49David Sims?

  Yes.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  Okay, got it, got it. That's more interesting than I thought the twist would be.

• 16:54David Sims?

  My reaction too. And the reason, uh, Griff thought it was a Kaiju movie is that they called like the iceberg that like is floating around Judy and it's.

• 17:03Griffin Newman?

  And the trailer, they kept referring to her, like, oh, she's so ugly. What is that?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Got it, got it.

• 17:08Griffin Newman?

  What is she? Bomb her, nuke her.

• 17:10David Sims?

  Right. And so you, not unwisely, we're like, because like, everyone in the marketing was just like, well, there's something they're not telling us.

• 17:17Griffin Newman?

  They're not telling us.

• 17:17David Sims?

  And a lot of people thought it was a musical or whatever. Right.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  But that's why, oh, they're showing, okay, that's why the trailer was so broad and weird.

• 17:25Griffin Newman?

  What if there's suddenly a spike in the Digger box office this weekend because one month later Blank Check spoiled the movie and people were like, oh, that's the premise?

• 17:32David Sims?

  What if?

• 17:33Griffin Newman?

  What if?

• 17:35David Sims?

  Digger has already been reclaimed.

• 17:37Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 17:37David Sims?

  I'm plugged into the discourse enough to notice that within a week, everyone was like, I think Digger's a masterpiece. Sorry.

• 17:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:43David Sims?

  Critics were wrong about it. It just, it happens that fast now. And then there'll be backlash to the backlash and backlash to the back, you know, but like.

• 17:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:49David Sims?

  There's, I'm already just sort of saying, all, for some reason, all the kids on Letterboxd are like, Digger, good.

• 17:54Griffin Newman?

  Is Digger winning best picture?

• 17:55David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 17:57Griffin Newman?

  Um, this is a mini-series on the films of Martin Scorsese.

• 18:00David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:02Griffin Newman?

  It's called Podcast Fellas, cause that's what we are. And today we are talking about Cape Fear with one of our favorite people, returned to the show, the greatest guest in podcasting, Eva Anderson.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Hey, guys.

• 18:13David Sims?

  And also a great writer and a great person.

• 18:16Griffin Newman?

  Margos's got money troubles.

• 18:18David Sims?

  Well, then fucking give her some money. What the fuck is the matter with you? Why are you yelling at me about it?

• 18:23Griffin Newman?

  She's been yelling this from the rooftops.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Sign up for her OnlyFans and get her money that way.

• 18:28Griffin Newman?

  It's an easy, direct system.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Pay her for nudes.

• 18:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes. OnlyFans isn't taking that large of a cut. You will help her money problems.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, she could buy diapers.

• 18:40David Sims?

  Right, she's gotta buy the diapers. They're expensive.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  They are expensive.

• 18:43David Sims?

  Reminds me, I need to buy diapers.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Um, guys, thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to talk about Cape Fear, the movie.

• 18:51David Sims?

  Cape Fear.

• 18:51Griffin Newman?

  You're, you're a bit of a Cape Fearologist.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  I went very hard on Cape Fear this year and did all the steps of Cape Fear.

• 18:58David Sims?

  Like, not knowing that you would be then invited on this show.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  No.

• 19:01David Sims?

  It was somewhat a happy, I was still like, I don't know.

• 19:04Griffin Newman?

  You're a flyer.

• 19:05David Sims?

  Are you a Cape Fear fan? Like, yeah.

• 19:07Griffin Newman?

  And you were like, I'm in deep.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause I watched the show.

• 19:09David Sims?

  Yes, there was the show on Apple TV that was, uh, I mean, Javier Bardem.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  It's Nick Antoska did it. Um, and it was Javier Bardem and Amy Adams and Patrick Wilson.

• 19:18Griffin Newman?

  And Amy Adams is playing the Jack Bowden role, basically, right? It's flipped?

• 19:23Speaker 02

  It's, okay. So, in the, in the original Executioners.

• 19:29Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Bowden was just like, I spotted this guy being bad in the alley, in the, in the military. And then Gregory Peck version, Gregory Peck was like, I was a lawyer that spotted a guy in an alley. And then Nick Nolte version, he was like, I was his lawyer and I, I did some.

• 19:44David Sims?

  I buried some evidence.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  I buried evidence.

• 19:45David Sims?

  Right.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  In the show, Amy Adams was his lawyer and Patrick Wilson was the district attorney prosecuting him. And not only did Amy Adams bury evidence, but she also had an affair with Max Cady, that she's not sure if she had sex with him or not, cause she was alcoholic at the time, but she also had an affair with Patrick Wilson.

• 20:09Griffin Newman?

  And then they ended up happily ever after.

• 20:10David Sims?

  It sounds convoluted.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  In the pilot of Cape Fear, their son, there's one son from a previous marriage, which is Lily Colius, who's very good in the show.

• 20:18David Sims?

  Yeah, great actor.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  And then the other child is.

• 20:21David Sims?

  Joe Anders.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Who's Sam Mendes and Kate Winslet's son.

• 20:24David Sims?

  Oh, he's another of the Winslet spawn, along with Mia Threepleton.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Max Cady gets out of prison through the Innocence Project. Who is, cause it's like, Max Cady might be innocent. Cause this other woman says that she committed the murder that he said he committed.

• 20:40David Sims?

  Is this making the Innocence Project look bad?

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Oh, they might be, wokeness might be the villain of, of Cape Fear's show.

• 20:48David Sims?

  Oh, no.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  But then, their son disappears, comes back, high as a kite, his toe's missing.

• 20:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, boy.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  And so they're like, where's his, where's his toe? And they can't find his toe. And in the end of the pilot of the Cape Fear show, they're in their backyard and Max Cady's like, I'm here too. And then the son throws up, and guess what he throws up?

• 21:11Griffin Newman?

  The toe?

• 21:12Speaker 02

  The toe.

• 21:12Griffin Newman?

  He had eaten the toe?

• 21:16Griffin Newman?

  The other thing I heard-

• 21:16David Sims?

  I don't like that.

• 21:18Griffin Newman?

  Is that Juliette Lewis plays Max Cady's-

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Half-sister.

• 21:21Griffin Newman?

  Who's obsessed with him and is stalking him.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Yes, she is stalking him, wearing a little mask so that you don't see for a while that it's her.

• 21:28Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Ron Perlman is Max Cady's father who would keep him in a dog cage and torture him.

• 21:33Griffin Newman?

  This is what I needed. I needed an explanation of how Max Cady got bad.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  One of the craziest things that happens in the finale is that after this big murder on a houseboat, where the houseboat is actually where Max Cady's family lives, our characters don't really get to that. That's not their houseboat.

• 21:48Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  But he kills everyone on the houseboat and then he just says, I don't remember if to anyone, he goes, I gotta go, I've got a restaurant to open. And I guess in the background, he's been also opening a restaurant, so.

• 22:00David Sims?

  Okay.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  He's hiring people. He's like been tasting food.

• 22:06David Sims?

  Imagine if De Niro's character, you know, Nolte's like, he's trying to kill me. Everyone's like, this restaurant's so good though. Or do you occasionally cut to him like, you know, frying a crab case?

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Also, because it's like eight hours, so many times, Patrick Wilson is like, well, Max Cady's not that bad. I guess I'll get drunk with him at this bar and tell him some secrets.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  And then, and then it's like, but he made your son eat his own toe. And it's like, ugh, I shouldn't have ever told about this affair I'm having.

• 22:34Griffin Newman?

  It sounds somewhat ill-conceived to me.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  They're actually like, you know, there's like the, I would say like Lily Collier, who's in Good One with James LaGrosse is like-

• 22:43Griffin Newman?

  Great actor.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Fucking incredible in it, like great performance, but there's just like too many characters. Everyone's got multiple levels of exposure.

• 22:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Max Cady's obviously bad the whole time, but people just keep going like, I guess I can trust you. And then there's another daughter, he has another daughter. Um.

• 23:01David Sims?

  I'm stressed out.

• 23:01Griffin Newman?

  More kids.

• 23:03David Sims?

  Is Marty involved with it?

• 23:04Speaker 02

  He has, him and Spielberg both have a title at the top.

• 23:08Griffin Newman?

  His own credit.

• 23:09David Sims?

  They did like an Apple event.

• 23:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes, they did like two and A's.

• 23:13David Sims?

  Where they like chatted with her, but I think it was more just them chatting about whatever they wanted to chat about.

• 23:18Griffin Newman?

  I don't know how hands-on they were, but they were, they were pressing the flesh to promote the show.

• 23:22David Sims?

  I mean, I think they may still own the right, like, cause it was-

• 23:24Griffin Newman?

  I think so.

• 23:25David Sims?

  We'll dig into the dossier, obviously, but it was a Spielberg project originally and then it goes to Marty. Nick Antoska?

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Nick Antoska, yeah.

• 23:31David Sims?

  He's the guy who did Channel Zero, right?

• 23:33Speaker 02

  I love Channel Zero.

• 23:34David Sims?

  I was such a big fan of Channel Zero.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  That was really good. Candy was really good. I think he's usually, uh, it's, he's, I usually really like his, his stuff.

• 23:42David Sims?

  What is Candy?

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Candy was about-

• 23:44David Sims?

  Jessica Biel.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, that was Candy Montgomery.

• 23:47Griffin Newman?

  She did a bad thing.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  But yeah, I feel like he's usually really good, but this, I just was, it was like, it was too stuffed with ideas and then they, it's hard to stretch those out over the eight episodes.

• 23:59Griffin Newman?

  Candy was the other version of the same-

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Love and Death.

• 24:02Griffin Newman?

  Right, the Elizabeth Olsen show?

• 24:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:04Griffin Newman?

  And then I think Hitmaker was on Candy, right?

• 24:07David Sims?

  Hitmaker is indeed on Candy.

• 24:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:10David Sims?

  Did he do a bad thing?

• 24:11Griffin Newman?

  Probably.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Who's Hitmaker?

• 24:12Griffin Newman?

  Timothy Simons.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, he's really good in it.

• 24:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he makes shows into hits.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Pablo Schreiber is also really good in Candy. Everyone's very good in Candy.

• 24:19Griffin Newman?

  When did you see Cape Fear for the first time? Did you see this version first?

• 24:22David Sims?

  The 1991 film, do you mean?

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think like 10 years ago, something like that. My parents loved it though. My dad loved Cape Fear. So it was like on at my house a lot, but I was never like sitting down and watching Cape Fear until I was an adult.

• 24:36Griffin Newman?

  This is 100% a movie I only discovered because of I Love the 90s.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 24:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I distinctly remember there being a Cape Fear segment.

• 24:45David Sims?

  Okay, sure. I never watched I Love the 90s, so you'll have to.

• 24:47Griffin Newman?

  I was big into it. Originally a UK format.

• 24:49David Sims?

  I know, I mean, like it was just one of those VHS, like the talking head things, right?

• 24:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, uh, VH1.

• 24:57David Sims?

  VH1?

• 24:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 24:59David Sims?

  You understood.

• 24:59Griffin Newman?

  I would record them on VHS and re-watch them.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  What about the Sideshow Bob though? You knew every-

• 25:04David Sims?

  That is how I discovered Cape Fear.

• 25:05Griffin Newman?

  But this is the thing, I thought like this is an incredible original premise for an episode of The Simpsons. And then whatever, probably five years later, I'm watching I Love the 90s.

• 25:15David Sims?

  I mean, I'm sure I thought that the first few times I saw that Simpsons episode, but yeah, I think I, then I figured it out. Right, but okay, I Love the 90s. Who's, who's riffing on it, Griff?

• 25:24Griffin Newman?

  Everybody, probably the Bear Naked Ladies, Hal Sparks, Michael Ian Black.

• 25:29David Sims?

  Okay, I have no sense of who was on the Bear Naked Ladies?

• 25:31Griffin Newman?

  Melissa Rousch.

• 25:32David Sims?

  Would they like, would they like talk really fast? Or did they like, Cape Fear is the funniest movie? Like, would they do it like that?

• 25:40Griffin Newman?

  Sure, or something like that.

• 25:41David Sims?

  Okay, great.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Aw, man.

• 25:42Griffin Newman?

  They would just sometimes have a collection of guys from a band together.

• 25:46David Sims?

  Just being like, that was crazy.

• 25:48Griffin Newman?

  But I remember being like, wait, like Martin Scorsese made a kind of trashy thriller? Cause it would, the fucking, I Love the 90s segments would inevitably kind of spoil everything.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:59Griffin Newman?

  So it even included him like in the full burn makeup, speaking in tongues in the river at the end.

• 26:05David Sims?

  Right. And, you know, he's pretty subtle in that scene, I would say.

• 26:09Griffin Newman?

  That's, I was like, this is a Scorsese movie?

• 26:11David Sims?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 26:12Griffin Newman?

  And then I watched it, rented it, and immediately realized it was the Simpsons episode.

• 26:18David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 26:18Griffin Newman?

  And it came full circle.

• 26:19David Sims?

  I think, yeah, it's just so tied up with The Simpsons, cause The Simpsons episode just has the things like Sideshow Bob under the car.

• 26:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:26David Sims?

  Where you're like, well, that's, they added that cause that's funny. And then you watch the movie, you're like, oh no, that's from the movie too, okay. I guess they added the rake stepping.

• 26:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes, the greatest joke of all time.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:37David Sims?

  Pretty good.

• 26:38Griffin Newman?

  Is that the best episode?

• 26:40David Sims?

  I think it's a, I think it's a good argument for it's a great episode. It's not a very big Homer episode.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:46David Sims?

  Like it's more of a Bart episode, I guess. And so that is one reason I would not call it my favorite episode, but it's a, it's a perfect episode of television. There is no, no, no fault.

• 26:57Griffin Newman?

  HMS Pinafore.

• 26:58David Sims?

  I mean, that's why I love it.

• 26:59Griffin Newman?

  That's why you love it.

• 27:00David Sims?

  It is. I love, I love that shit. And I love Kelsey Grammer. And I think he's so funny as Sideshow Bob.

• 27:07Griffin Newman?

  Producer Ben, had you seen this before?

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, the first time I saw it was on cable television. And it was heavily edited.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  And I don't even think I had seen it the beginning, really. I only got into it maybe in the middle and, and stayed with it to the end. It's really gripping, but man, is it a tough hang.

• 27:29David Sims?

  It's very nasty.

• 27:30Griffin Newman?

  I love this movie. I think it is such a fascinating, like weird cartoonish grand gagnol opus. Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  The scene with the daughter I had never, that I had never seen before.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Can you suck a thumb on cable? I guess not.

• 27:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  That was rough. That was really, that really made me uncomfortable.

• 27:48Griffin Newman?

  This feels like a movie that would be borderline incoherent on a TV edit.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  That's my favorite scene in the whole movie though.

• 27:55Griffin Newman?

  It's astonishing.

• 27:56David Sims?

  Yes.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  That's like, that, that's like Juliette Lewis's entire career is spun out of that scene, right?

• 28:02Griffin Newman?

  Fucking Oscar nomination, like basically because of that scene. Yeah.

• 28:05David Sims?

  Right, but I think it, it kind of messed with her career in a way in terms of that became like the thing she couldn't shake. You're the teenager from Cape Fear a little bit, right?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  And I wonder if it messed, if, how protected she was on set for that scene too, like in that time. It's like, how?

• 28:22David Sims?

  I mean, she was an adult. Like, I don't, so I-

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Was she, how was she 18?

• 28:26David Sims?

  I think she was like 20, like I can look it up.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  She really comes across as a child.

• 28:32Griffin Newman?

  It's a really realistic teenager.

• 28:33David Sims?

  She might have been like 18. I mean, it might have been, you know.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  It's like, you're even watching it, you're just like, is this, am I allowed to watch this? It's, yeah, I'm with you, Ben.

• 28:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  But it's very disturbing, but it's also like, that's why it's so disarming too. It's like-

• 28:46David Sims?

  Nope, she was 17.

• 28:47Griffin Newman?

  17.

• 28:48David Sims?

  And it's long.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  It goes on and on and on.

• 28:50David Sims?

  Yeah. And of course MTV nominated for Best Kiss.

• 28:54Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing.

• 28:55David Sims?

  Are you serious?

• 28:55Griffin Newman?

  More than anything, it's the kind of thing that immediately became a proto meme.

• 28:59David Sims?

  We, we live in, we lived in a society. It was the first year of Best Kiss at the MTV Movie Awards, I will say. Didn't win.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  What won?

• 29:07David Sims?

  Who are the other nominees? I'll give you the other nominees first.

• 29:09Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 29:10David Sims?

  Angelica Huston and Raul Julia in The Addams Family.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Sure, they're very sexy.

• 29:15David Sims?

  I'm just, my question is just which kiss?

• 29:17Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 29:18David Sims?

  That's all they're doing.

• 29:19Griffin Newman?

  Kissing up the arm.

• 29:20David Sims?

  Uh, but maybe it's like at the end of the big dance where all the like champagne corks go off. I think that's in First Addams Family, yes.

• 29:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it is.

• 29:27David Sims?

  Um, Annette Bening and Warren Beatty in Bugsy. Okay, what kiss?

• 29:32Griffin Newman?

  We just wanted to respect the real life romance.

• 29:34David Sims?

  Yeah, great. Uh, Juliette Lewis and Robert De Niro in Cape Fear.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Gross.

• 29:39David Sims?

  Priscilla Presley and Leslie Nielsen in The Naked Gun 2 and 1/2: The Smell of Fear.

• 29:43Griffin Newman?

  Should have won.

• 29:43David Sims?

  I'm sure it was great.

• 29:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:45David Sims?

  Uh, the winner was Anna Klumski and Macaulay Culkin in My Girl. I think this is a demented five.

• 29:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it is.

• 29:53David Sims?

  Like, we cannot be, like, I know this is all just made up.

• 29:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes, silly nonsense.

• 29:58David Sims?

  Like, and it's not like there are jurors or whatever, but like imagine trying to be like, well, which was the better kiss? Those cute, like 12-year-olds in that kid movie or Juliette Lewis and Robert De Niro in Cape Fear?

• 30:10Griffin Newman?

  These are five entirely different types of kissing.

• 30:12David Sims?

  What are we doing?

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Which one did I check off too?

• 30:15Griffin Newman?

  That's the problem, cause I feel like most years the winner was just what's the hottest kiss?

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like Batman kissing Chase Meridian or whatever.

• 30:24Griffin Newman?

  Right, and this one has like cute kisses, sexy kisses, funny kisses and scary kisses.

• 30:30David Sims?

  Like, did they eventually, let's see, when did they discontinue this category? Uh, 2023? Like, it lasted for so long.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  What was the final one that won?

• 30:39David Sims?

  Fucking, it's a TV show. Like they, you know, MTV-

• 30:42Griffin Newman?

  I hated when they did it.

• 30:43David Sims?

  Madison Bailey and Rudy Pankow in Outer Banks, as if I know what any of those words are.

• 30:51Griffin Newman?

  First time hearing of this.

• 30:53David Sims?

  The year before, Poopies won for kissing a snake in Jackass Forever. That's fun.

• 30:58Griffin Newman?

  That's fun.

• 30:59David Sims?

  Let me see if there's some other good kisses.

• 31:02Griffin Newman?

  I mean, there's the famous Ryan Gosling, Rachel McAdams, where they replicate the kiss onstage and they're both wearing the Darfur shirts.

• 31:08David Sims?

  I remember.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Did Madonna kiss Britney?

• 31:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  When they were presenting the award for Kiss?

• 31:14David Sims?

  No, it was when they were doing a show, like they were doing a number. And that was the VMAs, not the movie awards, right?

• 31:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 31:22David Sims?

  Yes, I think so.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  I remember that kiss.

• 31:24Griffin Newman?

  But they should have nominated it for Best Kiss.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Best Kiss, yeah.

• 31:28Griffin Newman?

  The next year.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Cause it was a TV show.

• 31:29David Sims?

  This is so weird, like Species won one year? Like, isn't that a kiss that probably precedes like an impaling?

• 31:35Griffin Newman?

  A death.

• 31:36David Sims?

  Or whatever?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:37David Sims?

  I don't think it was like romantic.

• 31:39Griffin Newman?

  But that's, that's what I'm saying, like a lot of times this category just doubled as like hottest shit.

• 31:44David Sims?

  Well, it's just so like Gwyneth Paltrow and Joseph Fiennes won for Shakespeare in Love.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Great.

• 31:48David Sims?

  How lovely. They have a lovely kiss in that lovely kiss movie.

• 31:51Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 31:51David Sims?

  The next year, Sarah Michelle Gellar and Sal Mover in Cruel Intentions. Okay.

• 31:55Griffin Newman?

  They love doing that.

• 31:55David Sims?

  The girls were kissing, okay. And then, but then it's like Julia Stiles, Sean Patrick Thomas in Save the Last Dance, back to romance. And then it's Jason Biggs and Sean William Scott in American Pie 2. So pure comedy kiss.

• 32:07Griffin Newman?

  Sure, sure.

• 32:07David Sims?

  Don't even remember why they kissed, but sure.

• 32:09Griffin Newman?

  There's a deal where the girls will kiss if they kiss first.

• 32:13David Sims?

  There you go. There you go.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  You remember.

• 32:15David Sims?

  Then Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst in Spider-Man.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Upside down kiss.

• 32:18David Sims?

  A famous kiss.

• 32:19Griffin Newman?

  It's almost like retire the category after that.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  It should be the last one.

• 32:22David Sims?

  They should have, because the next one was Owen Wilson, Carmen Electra and Amy Smart in Starsky and Hutch. What's that, just like a threesome scene?

• 32:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they have a coke foursome, but I think the idea is that they're going on a double date, but then Starsky or Hutch ends up sleeping with both of them and then Stiller doesn't sleep with any.

• 32:38David Sims?

  Sounds vaguely funny. And then Notebook. And then like, you know, oh, Brokeback Mountain won Best Kiss. Oh, very, oh.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, we've come a long way.

• 32:49David Sims?

  And then Will Ferrell and Sacha Baron Cohen in Talladega Nights. Like they couldn't settle on like serious and silly. It's just so funny, like every year, I'm sure this sort of, they're sitting down like, okay, well, you know, Twilight should win Best Movie. And like, what the fuck do we do about Best Kiss this year?

• 33:05Speaker 02

  I feel like, I don't even think about, just to bring it back, him kissing her in that scene, I only think about the thumb. Cause it's such a violation.

• 33:15David Sims?

  Right. The, I feel like if you looked up Cape Fear Juliette Lewis, you would see a thumb in her mouth.

• 33:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:32Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 33:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 33:37David Sims?

  Is that the Cineas Cow?

• 33:38Griffin Newman?

  The Cineas Cow is back.

• 33:39David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 33:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 33:46David Sims?

  Okay.

• 33:46Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 33:51David Sims?

  Wow.

• 33:51Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 33:53David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up. While you, while you tell the, the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 34:00Griffin Newman?

  Well, Mubi is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you, curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what Mubi does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 34:13David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 34:14Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 34:20David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 34:21Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburg, Past and Future Guest.

• 34:24David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, a great friend.

• 34:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 34:30David Sims?

  This movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 34:35Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 34:36David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 34:38Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 34:39David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 34:41Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 34:41David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 34:42Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 34:43David Sims?

  Such a cool movie, one that Queer Paul McCann, if you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on Mubi.

• 34:54Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 35:08David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 35:12Griffin Newman?

  What happens? It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 35:24David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on Mubi and you can try Mubi free for 30 days at Mubi.com slash Blank Check. That's M U B I dot com slash Blank Check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 35:36Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 35:42David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 35:47Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 35:48David Sims?

  Yes.

• 35:48Griffin Newman?

  Ah! It's spooky season.

• 35:51David Sims?

  Oh, well, we're gonna be doing that a lot.

• 35:53Griffin Newman?

  And here's the spookiest thing about this season.

• 35:55David Sims?

  Okay.

• 35:56Griffin Newman?

  Things get busy.

• 35:58David Sims?

  I'm feeling it. I'm feeling it.

• 36:00Griffin Newman?

  Schedules fill up, summer's gone, the loosey goosey vibes are over.

• 36:04David Sims?

  Over.

• 36:04Griffin Newman?

  More to do than ever.

• 36:08Griffin Newman?

  And you gotta get those routines back in full swing.

• 36:10David Sims?

  Okay.

• 36:11Griffin Newman?

  And that's exactly where AG1 earns its spot, in my opinion.

• 36:14David Sims?

  AG1, yes. Pace is picking up, AG1, hold steady.

• 36:19Griffin Newman?

  Mmm, one scoop, cold water every morning, stir, drink before anything else. It sets me right. I am a very satisfied, long time customer.

• 36:29David Sims?

  You are a long time customer of AG1. You're, you're always pouring that into, are you just pouring it into water?

• 36:34Griffin Newman?

  That's all I do. I like to just keep it simple. I got the travel packs, I rip it, I grip it, I guess first, then I rip it, then I pour in, I shake, I drink.

• 36:43David Sims?

  Do you use ice?

• 36:44Griffin Newman?

  I'm set right. I don't, this is what I'm saying.

• 36:46David Sims?

  Add a little lemon?

• 36:47Griffin Newman?

  I use cold water. I have filtered water in my fridge and I pour that into the bottle. So it's a little la di da.

• 36:53David Sims?

  That's pretty nice.

• 36:54Griffin Newman?

  That's what I do.

• 36:55David Sims?

  AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods. It's backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials, not we did a study, four independent studies where key nutrient levels improved within three months of consistent use. Your nutrient levels must be so good.

• 37:16Griffin Newman?

  They're incredible because it supports steady energy production, gut health and immune health, three things that don't naturally come to me easily. Everything your body needs to keep pace as the days get busier and shorter.

• 37:30David Sims?

  What's your flavor of choice these days? Berry still?

• 37:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm rocking berry, but I like, I like to alternate. I like to, to rotate every month to keep it fresh. And it does, it, it just gives me a nice burst right there in the morning. I feel steadier energy throughout the day.

• 37:45David Sims?

  Sure.

• 37:45Griffin Newman?

  And it keeps everything.

• 37:47David Sims?

  Good for digestion.

• 37:48Griffin Newman?

  Regular, I was gonna say, just very regular. Not normal in our parlance, regular.

• 37:54David Sims?

  Regular. So for a limited time, visit drinkag1.com slash check and get a free immune support bundle, including omega three fish oil and vitamin D3 plus K2 with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Blank Check sent you. Drinkag1.com slash check.

• 38:25Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 38:26David Sims?

  Yes.

• 38:27Griffin Newman?

  You got a house full of handfuls.

• 38:28David Sims?

  Oh, that, that is so true.

• 38:30Griffin Newman?

  You're buying toys to bribe them into good behavior on a regular basis. It's happened, it's happened. When was the last time you bought something for yourself, treat yourself nice?

• 38:39David Sims?

  Oh, that's a great question, not enough. I do occasionally, I don't know, like a piece of apparel.

• 38:45Griffin Newman?

  A piece of apparel?

• 38:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Griffin Newman?

  What about apparel for the face?

• 38:48David Sims?

  What?

• 38:48Griffin Newman?

  It's easy to forget when you're busy checking everyone else off your list, that sometimes it's nice to treat yo self. And maybe treat yourself with a little pair of eyeglasses from Zenni Optical.

• 39:00David Sims?

  Ah, Zenni Optical, they're an online eyewear shop with stylish prescription glasses, sunglasses and customizable lens options, all starting at under $30.

• 39:10Griffin Newman?

  You can shop zenni.com for someone else easily. Just pick the frame, add their prescription if you know it, or grab a gift card if you don't, and Zenni ships it right to their door. But of course, nothing easier than buying for yourself.

• 39:21David Sims?

  That's true. They've got the virtual try on. You can preview how a frame's gonna look before you buy it, so it won't feel like a shot in the dark. They've got 150,000 five star reviews, so you'll probably love them. And they accept FSA and HSA cards at directly at checkout. So if you got the funds, sitting there, maybe they're about to expire, it's almost the end of the year.

• 39:40Griffin Newman?

  Mmm.

• 39:41David Sims?

  Easy way to actually use them before you lose them. I have a friend who just did just that. I read like, she was like, my HSA is about to run out, buying like eight pairs of glasses.

• 39:50Griffin Newman?

  I mean, these are so affordable. It's nice to have around as a backup pair, as an alternate pair. Yeah, you, you know what is the term Chris Gethard uses that I like?

• 39:59David Sims?

  What's that?

• 39:59Griffin Newman?

  A TV pair.

• 40:00David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, sure.

• 40:01Griffin Newman?

  If you wear glasses, but you got some TV watching to do, you want a pair that's maybe a backup that you lie down in.

• 40:08David Sims?

  Yes.

• 40:08Griffin Newman?

  That you smoosh your face in.

• 40:10David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 40:11Griffin Newman?

  Here's the thing I like about Zenni.

• 40:12David Sims?

  Okay.

• 40:12Griffin Newman?

  Some of these other eyeglass retailers, you go, I don't know what shape this is. I don't know what to buy. Zenni, here are the names of the glasses, rectangle, square, round.

• 40:23David Sims?

  That is helpful. Yeah, rather than, yeah.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  I'm seeing here, Griffin, there's one called Cat Eye.

• 40:28Griffin Newman?

  Cat Eye.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  You know what that is?

• 40:30David Sims?

  That's a classic type of glasses.

• 40:31Griffin Newman?

  They're exactly what they sound like, they're classic and they come in many colors.

• 40:35David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, Zenni, it's so true. But you know, my daughter wears glasses now, so maybe I will pick up a few extra pairs.

• 40:43Griffin Newman?

  Look at that.

• 40:43David Sims?

  Kids are always losing glasses.

• 40:45Griffin Newman?

  Kids are always losing glasses.

• 40:46David Sims?

  Give the gift of Zenni this holiday season, glasses, sunglasses, whatever they need. Go to zenni.com slash podcast and use code PODCAST15 for 15% off plus free shipping over $65. Style's sell out, so don't wait. That's Z E N N I dot com slash podcast, promo code PODCAST15, zenni.com slash podcast, code PODCAST15.

• 41:23David Sims?

  This film is called Cape Fear. So you think you probably saw the original, the Jay Lee Thompson film later, right?

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

• 41:30David Sims?

  I did too. I watched it years later. Right?

• 41:33Griffin Newman?

  I just watched it for the first time in prep for this.

• 41:35David Sims?

  Did you like it?

• 41:35Griffin Newman?

  I did, yes.

• 41:36David Sims?

  It's a very good fucking 60s Hollywood thriller. It's very good.

• 41:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I was watching, there's like a vintage making of thing on the Blu-ray and Scorsese was talking about how many times he turned down this movie.

• 41:48David Sims?

  Right.

• 41:48Griffin Newman?

  That he didn't want to do it, but De Niro had been attached to it for years. So he kept re-offering it to Marty. And his thing was just like, that movie's perfect.

• 41:57David Sims?

  Right. I like that movie.

• 41:58Griffin Newman?

  It is what it is.

• 41:59David Sims?

  Why would I remake that movie?

• 42:00Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then he eventually was like, that movie's more of a noir. If I could sort of laterally move genres and make more of a modern thriller with it, but also go into more horrific areas.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Make it Catholic, put my Catholic guilt in there.

• 42:15Griffin Newman?

  Well, his big thing was, can the family be fucked up?

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:19David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 42:19Griffin Newman?

  Right. Can they be going through their own struggles? And then the other thing is just the, the original movie has to dance around a lot of stuff just because of the mores of the time. Yes. So this movie's allowed to be a lot more horrific.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:32David Sims?

  But yeah, like.

• 42:34Griffin Newman?

  I feel like you always struggle with this movie.

• 42:36David Sims?

  I don't like this movie. I mean, like, I think it's very fun and silly and like, I get the style of it, but it is not a movie I go back to. I find it too nasty.

• 42:43Griffin Newman?

  It's very nasty.

• 42:44David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Like, um, the way that in the 60s movie, like I said, like the woman just like, I gotta get out of town after she meets Max Cady and then they're like, Iliana Douglas just gets her cheek bit off on camera.

• 42:57David Sims?

  She does. Part of, part of, one of the nastiest, one of the nastiest parts.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:00Griffin Newman?

  But then like such an incredible scene with her in the hospital bed afterwards that makes you sit with it.

• 43:06David Sims?

  She's excellent in the film.

• 43:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  She's so good in that scene in the bar with him too. The way she's laughing at him. I was like, this is the most identifiable female scene. Like it's like, every woman has had this interaction with a guy at a bar where you're like, haha, you dumb fuck. And then he's, yeah, it's, uh, it was, it gave me, I got chills from that. It was really, she's so good.

• 43:30Griffin Newman?

  The ex, yeah.

• 43:30David Sims?

  I do not think this movie is like, you know, whatever, like too glib or whatever. I'm not saying that, but I, I personally do not come back to Cape Fear much.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Can I ask?

• 43:42David Sims?

  I will say.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I know you, you're gonna do a whole episode about it, but what are your feelings on Shutter Island?

• 43:47Griffin Newman?

  Great question.

• 43:48David Sims?

  I watch it all the time. It brings me great comfort.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  It's my most watched Scorsese movie. It's, I, I.

• 43:53David Sims?

  I mean, of course Eva, you love horror. You love the haunted house.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  I like to just put it on while I'm sewing.

• 43:59Griffin Newman?

  Can we also, can we?

• 44:00David Sims?

  Especially the first hour of it, as I say on the episode.

• 44:02Griffin Newman?

  Spoiler horns around this for a second?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:10Griffin Newman?

  Cause we're not having you on that episode?

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:13Griffin Newman?

  How do you rate Shutter Island as an immersive?

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Oh, as an ARG?

• 44:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes, you are such a connoisseur.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  It's so, it's, it's as bad as the game. There's no way to know he would do all those things, but, um.

• 44:25David Sims?

  There, we talked about it on that episode we've recorded. Like, yeah, there's a lot of branching decision-making moments there where you're like, how did you plan for this?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  How'd you know he's gonna go across the rocks and find Patricia Clarkson? Like.

• 44:36David Sims?

  Well, that's in his head. But, uh, but, uh, but, um, you know, if we're just like, we'll all do the improv, like us, the guards, the doctors. And it's like, but we'll have him talk to some mental patients soon. I'm like, the mental patient?

• 44:47Speaker 02

  The mental patient's gonna wink at him? How do you know? Like, yeah, but, but like the thing I feel about that movie is that, and a little bit of an issue I have with this one is like, why Joe Don Baker? You could have cast anybody.

• 45:01Griffin Newman?

  See, I love him in this.

• 45:03David Sims?

  What's your problem with Joe Don Baker?

• 45:04Speaker 02

  Well, my big problem is that he's Mitchell from Mystery Science Theater 3000. And I can never unsee that from the episode where Joel leaves and Mike takes over. But also I just feel like he's kind of goofy and I feel like, but, but with Shutter Island, if you're sewing, anytime you look up, there's someone awesome on like the best actor, the best character actor. Yeah, just like John Carol Lynch is here and then you like look away. Yeah, you're just like, ooh, it's one of my faves. So that's, that's, that's my, that's my pitch.

• 45:32David Sims?

  It's interesting that Joe Don Baker and Fred Thompson are in Cape Fear because they are both kind of the same kind of guy. Like Joe Don Baker's goofier, Fred Thompson's more authoritarian, but they're both like big southern guys.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 45:43David Sims?

  You know, who can play a sort of wide variety of like lawyers and cops and, you know, that kind of, you know.

• 45:49Griffin Newman?

  If you close your eyes, you might not be able to tell which one's on screen at that moment.

• 45:52David Sims?

  Fred Thompson is.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  I love him.

• 45:54David Sims?

  The best. He's like, I know.

• 45:56Griffin Newman?

  Politically.

• 45:57David Sims?

  I know that Fred Thompson eventually became a mediocre Republican senator from Tennessee who I didn't agree with on anything.

• 46:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and Kellyanne Conway's best ex-boyfriend.

• 46:06David Sims?

  If Fred Thompson's in a movie.

• 46:07Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 46:08David Sims?

  My thumb is all the way up. Like, the movie better be called like Gun Patrol or whatever. And he's like, gentlemen, I'm sending you into the Gulf. And I'm like, you do that, Colonel.

• 46:18Griffin Newman?

  Bullet force.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  What did you think, uh, like about the stunt casting too?

• 46:26David Sims?

  Of Mitchum and.

• 46:27Griffin Newman?

  The cameo?

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Or just like the, the scene with Balsam and Pac together.

• 46:30David Sims?

  Lovely to see Balsam. I'll never, I would.

• 46:33Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorites of all time.

• 46:35David Sims?

  Shake a ball.

• 46:35Griffin Newman?

  The greatest.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  But I was like, when you put them together, it's like, oh man, two actors in this scene are so old, like.

• 46:42David Sims?

  It is a little bit like, why, why is this judge not like retired? He's fucking 80.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  He's like, he's barely getting it out, the sentence.

• 46:54David Sims?

  I love Martin Balsam so much.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  I love him so much. He's so good in the original.

• 46:57David Sims?

  An eternally old man, Martin Balsam. Uh, Cape Fear, I'll open the dossier, uh, was made in 1991, but for some reason JJ wants us to know that Martin Scorsese first met Akira Kurosawa at the 1980 New York Film Festival. Uh, because the director, Kurosawa was presenting Kagamusha and, uh, Scorsese asked him to join a petition for Eastman Kodak to create more durable color film stock for the preservation purposes. And that gets him a role in Dreams. It's a great Kurosawa movie. Is, is it his final movie? I can't even.

• 47:30Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I think so.

• 47:31David Sims?

  Look it up.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  It's a color film?

• 47:33David Sims?

  Yes, it is. I love that movie. No, yeah, he did actually do Rhapsody in August after, and then, um, Mada Dyo, I've never seen that one.

• 47:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, me neither.

• 47:41David Sims?

  But you know, it's, it's a, it's an elegiac film.

• 47:44Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 47:44David Sims?

  Have you seen Dreams?

• 47:45Griffin Newman?

  I've seen Dreams.

• 47:46David Sims?

  It's so good.

• 47:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, rules.

• 47:49David Sims?

  Scorsese plays Vincent Van Gogh.

• 47:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Incredible casting.

• 47:52David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, in Dreams. Uh, so anyway, he had a great time being in Dreams. Uh, I don't think this is that important, JJ. I'm sorry. I love you so much.

• 48:00Griffin Newman?

  JJ's trying to fill all the gaps in these dossiers.

• 48:02David Sims?

  Right, I get that. Steven Spielberg wants Martin Scorsese to make Cape Fear.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Does he have the rights? Is that why he's the, is that why he's on the show?

• 48:14David Sims?

  So here's the great story. Okay. So Spielberg had given Scorsese Schindler's List, the rights to that novel. He hired Steve Zalian, Scorsese had hired Steve Zalian to write it. Uh, they were working on the script, but he had reservations. This is 1990, according to Scorsese. He'd done Last Temptation of Christ. And he felt like he'd done a lot of sort of dialoguing about religion in that movie. And he was a little worried that like, he wasn't the guy for the movie to tackle that subject matter. That Jewish people had been upset about, uh, the Diary of Anne Frank movie, like that, that was a Gentile or whatever, you know, like a few years prior.

• 48:55Griffin Newman?

  Let's also acknowledge the important thing happening here, which is as part of the deal for Universal to distribute and finance Last Temptation of Christ.

• 49:05David Sims?

  Yes.

• 49:06Griffin Newman?

  Scorsese owed them.

• 49:07David Sims?

  I owe them a movie.

• 49:07Griffin Newman?

  Quote, a more commercial movie.

• 49:09David Sims?

  Sure.

• 49:09Griffin Newman?

  That they were willing to take on the risky one if they, they got an IOU from Marty.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:14Griffin Newman?

  And Spielberg obviously is set up at Universal with Amblin at this period of time and they're friends and.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  He also at this time has opened the restaurant Dive with Jeffrey Katzenberg that is submarine shaped and serves.

• 49:26David Sims?

  This is on an episode, did we not?

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Submarine sandwiches.

• 49:28Griffin Newman?

  I don't know if we ever have.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  They serve submarine sandwiches, not seafood.

• 49:32Griffin Newman?

  Inside a submarine?

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, inside a submarine.

• 49:33Griffin Newman?

  Do you know about this, Ben?

• 49:34Speaker 03

  We've talked about it before.

• 49:35David Sims?

  Okay, we definitely talked about it before.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Because I definitely never would have known about this unless you told me about it.

• 49:39David Sims?

  We definitely talked about it.

• 49:40Griffin Newman?

  It means a lot to me.

• 49:42David Sims?

  Spielberg is on board to me. Remake Cape Fear.

• 49:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:45David Sims?

  Uh, and so Scorsese calls Spielberg and is like, I'm not sure I want to do this. Spielberg's like, that's great news because I've kind of always regretted giving it to you. A swap is made. Scorsese says, I wasn't being altruistic. It just made sense to me that he was the person who should really go through with it. I was worried I wouldn't be able to do justice to it. You know, we've talked about Schindler's List already.

• 50:05Griffin Newman?

  Spielberg's in a weird spot at this point too, where he's sort of like, I tried making my serious movies and people rejected them. Maybe people want me to make popcorn stuff only.

• 50:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 50:14Griffin Newman?

  So it felt like he was sort of avoiding Schindler's List and thinking something like Cape Fear was a way for him to make a more grown up movie.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:20Griffin Newman?

  That was also sort of popcorny and commercial.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  I would have hated that Spielberg.

• 50:24Griffin Newman?

  Would have been really bad.

• 50:26David Sims?

  Spielberg, Cape Fear and Scorsese Schindler's List just both sound insane to me.

• 50:30Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 50:30David Sims?

  Like insane in the way where I'm like, I'd like to see it and then have it not be real.

• 50:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 50:36David Sims?

  You know, I'd like to just see whatever that would have looked like in both cases and then be like, all right, now rewind to reality, please. So Scorsese had worked with Universal, uh, for Last Temptation of Christ.

• 50:47Griffin Newman?

  Right. Christ.

• 50:48David Sims?

  Christ.

• 50:49Griffin Newman?

  Jesus Christ. Put some respect on that name.

• 50:50David Sims?

  Obviously that film did not make money. So he's making an attempt at a box office situation, which is how he puts it, which I think is really funny. I'll try and do a box office situation for you. Um, he's like, I wasn't even 50. I kind of wanted to make like a Hollywood movie, like a big entertainment film with action scenes. He's a little interested in that. So, all right. Let's turn back to the screenplay. Cape Fear is a remake of the Jay Lee Thompson 1962 film, Cape Fear. Adaptation of John McDonald's novelty Executioners. Uh, Wesley Strick, who is the writer of Arachnophobia? Among other things.

• 51:26Griffin Newman?

  An Amblin film.

• 51:27David Sims?

  Uh, was approached by Amblin and was kind of like, eh, this movie doesn't do much for me. Okay. Says, it's kind of a failed Hitchcock. I didn't like the vigilante implications of the story. Uh, I didn't like that it comes down to like, sometimes you gotta be a man with a gun and shoot a guy, you know, you know what I mean? Like, sort of like, sometimes your hand's gonna be forced. But then Spielberg gets on board and Strick's like, oh, I guess I should work with Steven Spielberg.

• 51:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 51:51David Sims?

  Like, so he does that.

• 51:53Griffin Newman?

  He said that his version that he wrote for Spielberg was much more built around giant set pieces, unsurprisingly.

• 51:58David Sims?

  I thought you were about to say to me, built around giants.

• 52:01Griffin Newman?

  Max Cady was huge.

• 52:04David Sims?

  Yeah, so, you know, he looks at the book and he's like, the movie tries to make Peck a hero. The book doesn't so much. Like, it's not, that's not so much a heroic.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  He's a coward in the book.

• 52:13David Sims?

  Right, and it's more just about how like violence sort of degrades everybody, right? Even the righteous.

• 52:18Griffin Newman?

  But Gregory Peck is like the ultimate moral authority in American cinema at that point in time.

• 52:22David Sims?

  Totally.

• 52:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  John McDonald likes heroes who like have sex and like their families. Have you read Travis McGee?

• 52:30David Sims?

  Love to have sex and like my family. What, Travis, what now?

• 52:32Speaker 02

  Any Travis McGee books? That was like his series that they've tried to make movies of forever and ever.

• 52:36David Sims?

  Have never watched, I had never read a Travis.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  They're really fun, but like Travis McGee is like, he lives on a houseboat in the Florida Keys. He has lots of sex and he solves crimes and he just like, he's a groovy dude.

• 52:49David Sims?

  They have the naming convention that there's always a color.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  It's always a color, like, yeah, in the title of each book.

• 52:55David Sims?

  Yeah, he did 21 books all with a color in the title of everyone. One of the furli- earliest examples of a title theme, you know, along with, say, Sue Grafton's Alphabets, which I was obsessed with when I was a kid.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, A is for, yeah.

• 53:08David Sims?

  Like, when I was a kid, I was just like, well, I know my alphabet. Is this book about the alphabet? My dad was like, no, it's about like a person solving crimes. And I'm like, okay, well, what is A for? Alibi? Okay, what's B for? What was it for? Okay, fine, I'll look it up. You guys know what I'm talking about? Does anyone else?

• 53:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I remember this. My mom read all of those books.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  But, but the John McDonald mystery books are very horny and fun. And the character in Executioners is like, I love fucking my wife. She's so beautiful. It's just like, and then, and we have a weird dog and they get really into like, you really like the dog a lot. So when Katie poisons the dog, it's the, maybe the big violence set piece of the entire book.

• 53:44Griffin Newman?

  Okay, that's the ultimate injustice.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz the dog is described as like a weird dog. Like, they were like, why do we end up with this weird dog? Her name's like Margaret or something and they're always making fun of how fucking weird their dog is.

• 53:56Griffin Newman?

  This dog can play basketball.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  So then they, he poisons it and you like.

• 53:59Griffin Newman?

  There's nothing in the rulebook says he can.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  And all the kids watch the dog die of, there were like three kids and they're watching the dog die. It's just like, it's actually really, really effective.

• 54:08David Sims?

  A is for alibi, B is for burglar, C is for corpse, D is for deadbeat, E is for evidence. Okay, it goes on like this. She never made it to Z. X was just called X, which I kind of liked that she wasn't like, X is for, uh, someone got killed with a xylophone. Like, she didn't do the old.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Executioner.

• 54:25David Sims?

  Uh, no, X was just called X. And then she did Y is for yesterday and then she died.

• 54:29Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 54:30David Sims?

  She didn't make it to Z.

• 54:31Griffin Newman?

  You never got to Z?

• 54:31David Sims?

  No.

• 54:32Griffin Newman?

  That is the ultimate indignity.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Ed, Ed Winder's scenario.

• 54:36David Sims?

  It was gonna be Z is for zero, but she didn't get it.

• 54:39Griffin Newman?

  And no one wrote it in her stead?

• 54:40David Sims?

  She would not allow it.

• 54:41Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 54:42David Sims?

  She was like, you will not pull some ghostwriter, I'm writing from beyond the grave shit with me. Whereas if I did, I would be like, ghostwrite the shit out of it.

• 54:50Griffin Newman?

  Finish this fucking shit.

• 54:51David Sims?

  David Sims with someone else, you know, like, do that forever. Uh, okay. So Strick, Strick, it seems like Strick really doesn't like the movie and he's basically, I'm worried that I'd be writing like Death Wish.

• 55:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:03David Sims?

  Which is a bit, I feel like, a little hysterical of him.

• 55:06Griffin Newman?

  I think so.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:07David Sims?

  But like, I guess with Death Wish, the original Death Wish, the idea is like, well, he was a normal guy and he was pushed into these circumstances, right? But, so, uh, he wanted to rethink Max Cady a little bit. He's like, in the movie, Mitchum is so convincing and natural and charming, but like in the book, the character is just a cracker sadist, is how he puts it. Just a cruel bastard. Uh, so he wants to make it more interesting by turning it into sort of like a religious quest for him, if that makes sense, in this movie.

• 55:40Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:40David Sims?

  Right? Like, it's like he's more on a crusade and like, he thinks Marty kind of gets that, if that makes sense. Like, he sees Katie's point of view, even if he doesn't like think he should be so mean.

• 55:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and Marty, who's gone through multiple failed marriages and failed attempts at being a present father at this point in time.

• 55:59David Sims?

  Right.

• 56:00Griffin Newman?

  Is just like, I can't do these big set pieces.

• 56:02David Sims?

  Sure.

• 56:03Griffin Newman?

  You wrote that for Spielberg. What interests me is if the family isn't happy versus in the original film where they're very much just kind of like a perfect American family who are disrupted by this thing.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  The sin of the father is now being visited on the family.

• 56:15David Sims?

  It's that, and it's also like Nick Nolte, uh, what's his, Sam Bone, you know, he tried to pass judgment, right? Like, and it's like, that wasn't your role, sir. You know what I mean? Like, he tried to render judgment and he was, you know, that's, he put a man in prison wrongly or rightly for 15 years because of it.

• 56:32Griffin Newman?

  No, I like that he was right.

• 56:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:34Griffin Newman?

  But he was wrong in the eyes of the law.

• 56:36David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, Scorsese says in the Spielberg version of the script, like, yeah, the family's like happy and singing around the piano. And he's like, I think Steve can do that well cuz he believes in it, but not me. Not something I'm aware of. Uh, and the scene in the theater between De Niro and Juliette Lewis, which I play Seduction, that was written scary.

• 56:54Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:55David Sims?

  And, uh, I, you know, changed that a little bit. And, uh, he's like, you know, it would have been, there would have been like an awesome car chase or whatever and it's, Steve would have crushed it. I would have been bored trying to do it.

• 57:06Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:07David Sims?

  It's, you know, good for him knowing what he wants. Uh, Marty basically like takes it, they have a big meeting where Marty takes him page by page and it's like, too cute, too cute. Like, we're getting all of this out. Um, and, uh, yeah, the other reason he wants to make it is he kind of just wants to prove a point. Like, I can make a movie that is a big studio thriller.

• 57:26Griffin Newman?

  And also, De Niro really wanted to play Max Cady.

• 57:29David Sims?

  I guess that makes it a lot easier.

• 57:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 57:32David Sims?

  Right. Uh, he also says, I just wanna challenge myself. I've made so many films about Italians.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 57:38Griffin Newman?

  He said, uh, that they kept doing table reads of the script before Scorsese signed on. This was in the making of thing. And the version that finally got Scorsese to sign on, Kevin Kline was playing Bowden and Phoebe Cates was playing the Jessica Lange part.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  I like, I don't hate it.

• 57:55David Sims?

  I, I watched that.

• 57:56Griffin Newman?

  Fascinating.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:57Griffin Newman?

  Fascinating to consider.

• 57:58David Sims?

  I mean, Nolte is, so, we'll talk about it, but like, he's such a scene casting cuz he's so big and De Niro is so small.

• 58:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:04David Sims?

  But that works for me in the movie.

• 58:06Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 58:07David Sims?

  Like, I like the reversal.

• 58:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 58:09David Sims?

  And I, and I think Nolte does a good job playing like a sort of a stuffed shirt, like, you know, even, yeah, like, I, that works for me.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  He's a weasel too. I like him playing, I like Nolte playing a weasel.

• 58:17Griffin Newman?

  Low status Nolte is fascinating.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz he can do it. He gets really scare, there's scenes where he's as scary as, especially with Juliette Lewis, where you're just like, he's, his weakness is very dangerous.

• 58:29David Sims?

  It's just, like, you could reverse the roles.

• 58:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:32David Sims?

  They would both be good in the other role too.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:35David Sims?

  And it would be different and it would be interesting. They should have done that, like True West.

• 58:38Griffin Newman?

  Kevin Kline just.

• 58:39David Sims?

  Done two versions.

• 58:40Griffin Newman?

  Culturally, in terms of what Kevin Kline represented in the movies at that point in time, it would have been fascinating to watch him be terrorized.

• 58:47David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Oh, man, but that, they did make this movie and it's called Consentin' Adults.

• 58:51Griffin Newman?

  Oh, fuck.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  And Max Cady is Kevin Spacey.

• 58:55Griffin Newman?

  Well, your favorite actor.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Have you guys ever seen Consentin' Adults?

• 58:58Griffin Newman?

  Never seen Consentin' Adults.

• 58:59David Sims?

  No, that is right around the, that's a Pacula movie, right? I've never seen it.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  They, it's like, it's like Kevin, it's like, Spacey has a really hot wife and he's like, let's swap wives for one night and not, let's do the bed trick.

• 59:11David Sims?

  And when Spacey makes that proposition, it's really chill and not creepy at all.

• 59:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's great. He's like, yeah, you should come fuck my wife and I'll fuck your wife. And then Kevin Kline does it and then in the morning, the Kevin Spacey wife is dead.

• 59:25David Sims?

  Wait, that's a great pitch for a movie.

• 59:27Griffin Newman?

  That's a great premise.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  And then it's like, it's like, you, you fucked my wife and killed her. And it's like, it's great. And then while Kevin Kline's in jail, Spacey gets in there with the other wife.

• 59:38Griffin Newman?

  Oh, okay.

• 59:39David Sims?

  Oh, Spay you.

• 59:40Griffin Newman?

  Spacey.

• 59:41David Sims?

  You've gotta get this guy under control.

• 59:43Griffin Newman?

  He likes women too much. The poster for this fucking rules too. It's like scantily clad body in a sheet and then it's thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, consenting adults in Alan Pacula film.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  I think Spacey's blonde in it too. I think he has like cool blonde hair.

• 59:59David Sims?

  He did a lot of that.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01David Sims?

  Before he settled in with John Doe and Kaiser Sose, like, he was doing a lot of Frosted Tips and stuff. He was definitely looking for a look.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  He's a redhead and outbreak.

• 1:00:10David Sims?

  Yeah, that's a, that's another really chill performance.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:13Griffin Newman?

  Oh, I found a picture of Kevin Spacey in Consentin' Adults.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Am I right? Is he blonde?

• 1:00:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's blonde.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  When I had a big crush on him in high school, I watched every single movie he had ever done.

• 1:00:21Griffin Newman?

  Do you know this, Ben, that, uh, Kevin Spacey was Eva's ur-crush?

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  It was my celebrity crush, oh, yeah, big time.

• 1:00:30David Sims?

  Wow. No, I didn't.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  In high school, in high school.

• 1:00:33David Sims?

  No, but I mean, what, what was the ultimate Kevin Spacey role?

• 1:00:35Griffin Newman?

  The first activation.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  The sexiest he was, maybe Swimming with Sharks is where.

• 1:00:39David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, that is right. I guess, him at his most kind of.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  That was, it was the year that he had the three roles and then he won the Oscar. But I was just like, I'm going back, I'm watching everything, I'm gonna watch him in See No Evil, Hear No Evil, where he's like the Boris and Natasha bad guy with a.

• 1:00:54David Sims?

  Oh, my god, yeah, right.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56David Sims?

  Cuz I love that movie. I mean, he was a great stock villain guy.

• 1:00:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes, he was incredible.

• 1:01:00David Sims?

  From the eighties to the, like, mid 90s.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  He's so good in, uh, working girl is so good in Glengarry Glen Ross, it's like the.

• 1:01:07Griffin Newman?

  Fred Claus, he's amazing in Fred Claus.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  And, uh, uh, The Nine Lives, the cat, where he goes, his soul goes into a cat.

• 1:01:14Griffin Newman?

  That is a truly borderline unwatchable movie.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it was his last thing before he got canceled.

• 1:01:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:19David Sims?

  Uh, we did, what do you mean? We paid tribute to it, or Nine Show, you remember?

• 1:01:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I fucking nailed my Spacey addition.

• 1:01:25David Sims?

  You did a great job.

• 1:01:26Griffin Newman?

  My addition to replace Kevin Spacey.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Pay it forward where he's covered in burn scars.

• 1:01:31Griffin Newman?

  Kind of Max Cady-ish.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, he actually has the Max Cady burns, but it's cuz his stepfather lit him on fire with gasoline.

• 1:01:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:01:39David Sims?

  So, the internet lore claims that Bill Murray was at one point considered, which is crazy for Max Cady.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  Weird.

• 1:01:46David Sims?

  Uh, but De Niro had been attached for a long time.

• 1:01:48Griffin Newman?

  Spielberg was obsessed with Bill Murray in the 80s. There's that story that Spielberg personally funded an Oscar campaign for Bill Murray for What About Bob?

• 1:01:56David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:01:57Griffin Newman?

  And that he kept trying to get him to do stuff. I think Bill Murray was supposed to be in Spielberg's version of Rain Man.

• 1:02:03David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. I mean, it makes sense cuz Spielberg is such an SNL obsessive and all that, yeah.

• 1:02:07Griffin Newman?

  But his, in the 80s, he just kept trying to get stuff going with Bill Murray that never happened.

• 1:02:14David Sims?

  De Niro.

• 1:02:15Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:16David Sims?

  This might shock you to hear, kinda committed pretty hard to the role and started doing a lot of like working out to sort of get his body in the shape that you see it in this film.

• 1:02:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:02:24David Sims?

  He looks pretty insane in this movie. He looks kind of insane. He's got a lot of tattoos. Did you notice that?

• 1:02:32Griffin Newman?

  I did.

• 1:02:33David Sims?

  The lightning bolts on his rib cage, that was De Niro's idea.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  He looks, gotta say, he looks pretty good in this movie.

• 1:02:40Griffin Newman?

  He looks pretty hot.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  He's like, he's so cut, but he's not like.

• 1:02:45David Sims?

  He's not huge, cuz he's got such a tiny frame. So like, you know, he's got this kinda sinewy. Is the hair good?

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:02:51Griffin Newman?

  I think the hair is.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  The mullet? I mean, good in what way?

• 1:02:54David Sims?

  I don't know. Anyway, for Max Cady, sure, it's working great.

• 1:02:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:59David Sims?

  The hair is just crazy.

• 1:03:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  It's interesting, like, when Mitchum takes his shirt off in the, in the sixties movie, he just has like a perfect that era body.

• 1:03:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's just a barrel.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  He's just like someone who does like sit-ups. And some push-ups.

• 1:03:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:14Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's, that's the heightening of this film of, of the like, this guy has just spent his entire prison sentence, like, sharpening himself like a blade.

• 1:03:24David Sims?

  He did a lot of research from tapes. He studied a lot of accents. He interviewed killers in prison.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  Yikes.

• 1:03:32David Sims?

  You know, he tunnelled in very deeply. First choice for Sam Bowden, Robert Redford.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 1:03:38Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  Don't hate it.

• 1:03:39David Sims?

  Makes a lot of sense. He's the sort of ultimate kinda preppy guy who, you know, whatever. His life could be falling apart.

• 1:03:47David Sims?

  Doesn't happen. Harrison Ford, of course.

• 1:03:50Griffin Newman?

  Would've been too big, I think. Like, too, too big an icon.

• 1:03:55David Sims?

  I, I think, I think so. Ford's response is, I wanna play Max Cady if I'm gonna do that. I mean, I don't wanna play that guy.

• 1:04:01Griffin Newman?

  That would've been fascinating.

• 1:04:02David Sims?

  Exactly. But obviously, De Niro is not giving up the role, but that is interesting to consider, like, letting Ford try something like that.

• 1:04:09Griffin Newman?

  But that feels like what lies beneath is him finally making good on that interest.

• 1:04:13David Sims?

  Right, right. Obviously, of course, as he had just worked with Nolte on Life Lessons in New York Stories. And he was like, yeah, well, and in that, he's like fat and bearded and drunk. And so he wasn't like, really popping into my head for this role. But then I, we showed, like, a movie, we showed Goodfellas at Museum of Art or something, and Nolte shows up like blazer and tie, his hair parted.

• 1:04:38Griffin Newman?

  Sexiest man alive.

• 1:04:39David Sims?

  Some glasses. Were they cunty little glasses? We can't be sure.

• 1:04:44Griffin Newman?

  They might've been.

• 1:04:44David Sims?

  But on Nick Nolte's face, you know, those glasses are little.

• 1:04:48Griffin Newman?

  This is true. He's got a fucking Easter Island head.

• 1:04:51David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  He really does.

• 1:04:53David Sims?

  So Marty nudges De Niro.

• 1:04:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:55David Sims?

  And is like, there's our lawyer. He says like, that was what, I literally just had to see him in different clothes and be like, oh.

• 1:05:03David Sims?

  Nolte likes the role. He'd be like, he's not a perfect man. He's very flawed. You know, it's hard for him to accept powerlessness. I mean, he says lots of interesting things. He's a very smart, very smart actor, Nick Nolte.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  I love Nick Nolte.

• 1:05:16David Sims?

  Me too.

• 1:05:17Griffin Newman?

  Blank Check All-Star.

• 1:05:18David Sims?

  We have fun with him, but I love Nick Nolte.

• 1:05:20Griffin Newman?

  Oh, of course.

• 1:05:21David Sims?

  He's the best.

• 1:05:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23David Sims?

  You know?

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Affliction, Nick Nolte, that's like one of the fucking best.

• 1:05:26David Sims?

  What's the, um, the remake of Bobla Flumber that Neil Jordan did?

• 1:05:30Griffin Newman?

  It's not called The Good.

• 1:05:31David Sims?

  It's Good Thief.

• 1:05:32Griffin Newman?

  Good Thief.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:34David Sims?

  That's one of those.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  He's really good in Breakfast of Champions, a real unappreciated Vonnegut movie.

• 1:05:40David Sims?

  That movie I have not seen since I was a teenager, so I was obsessed with that book as a teenager, and I watched it, remember kind of liking it even though it was despised.

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  It's mostly just Nick Nolte's so fun in it.

• 1:05:50David Sims?

  Nick Nolte's very, yeah, it's an Alan Rudolph movie. Have you seen Grif?

• 1:05:54Griffin Newman?

  I, I've never seen Breakfast of Champions. Yeah.

• 1:05:57David Sims?

  Alan Rudolph series when, Grif?

• 1:05:59Griffin Newman?

  It would be a little tricky to do. How many movies is it?

• 1:06:02David Sims?

  It's a lot.

• 1:06:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:05David Sims?

  It's like, I think it's like 20 movies. The man worked.

• 1:06:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:08David Sims?

  And like, what the fuck is the Blank Check? There isn't one.

• 1:06:12Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:06:12David Sims?

  I mean, I guess it's Breakfast of Champions. He had like Bruce Willis in that.

• 1:06:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes, right. Cuz it's not Secret Life of Dentists.

• 1:06:18David Sims?

  Not a bad movie.

• 1:06:19Griffin Newman?

  A pretty good film.

• 1:06:20David Sims?

  Pretty good movie.

• 1:06:21Griffin Newman?

  You know who's great in that?

• 1:06:21David Sims?

  Dennis Leary.

• 1:06:22Griffin Newman?

  Dennis Leary's fucking hitting three-point shots.

• 1:06:25David Sims?

  You, you, you know, we agree on Dennis Leary.

• 1:06:27Griffin Newman?

  Oh, 100%.

• 1:06:28David Sims?

  I love Dennis Leary, third build.

• 1:06:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:06:30David Sims?

  Dennis Leary's third build, David is first in line.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  I just watched.

• 1:06:33David Sims?

  That's my motto.

• 1:06:35Speaker 02

  I was on the guys podcast and they showed me that clip from Demolition Man. Is that the movie where Dennis Leary just does his own stand-up as part of the like resistance underground?

• 1:06:43David Sims?

  Dennis Leary's stand-up was so famous that they were like, we need to shoehorn this into a sci-fi thriller remake. Like Dennis Leary needs to just talk down the fucking camera lens.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  And be like, I just wanna go to a diner and eat. I want cholesterol. I want high cholesterol. It's like, it's just, it's just doing a monologue about like, yeah, it's so funny to like the resistance fighters.

• 1:07:01David Sims?

  He's the leader of the resistance.

• 1:07:02Griffin Newman?

  Chris Rock, Lethal Weapon 4 is the other great example of that. Detective Butters. Where there are like four scenes. Where he walks in and points at an object and is like, phones. Phones are interesting. You know what I think? And he like takes out a mic and starts pacing back and forth.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  That's so funny.

• 1:07:17Griffin Newman?

  But it was the same thing where people were like, this is so powerful.

• 1:07:20David Sims?

  I can't cut enough of Chris Rock. Just put him in our movie right now. Like, it was really that.

• 1:07:24Griffin Newman?

  Give him a holster, but let him just do his act.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  So funny.

• 1:07:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:39Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:07:40David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:40Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd.

• 1:07:57David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:07:59Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16mm film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:08:21David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows, of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:08:33Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:08:42David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:08:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:08:45David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds, but this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:08:52Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, The Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:09:06David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:09:08Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:09:11David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:09:26Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:09:42Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:09:43David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:09:43Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 1:10:04David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 1:10:24Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:10:40David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 1:11:14Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:11:15David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:11:15Griffin Newman?

  Broadcast television is dead.

• 1:11:17David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:11:17Griffin Newman?

  Means the death of the repeat.

• 1:11:19David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:19Griffin Newman?

  Where, where do repeats still exist? In your closet.

• 1:11:23David Sims?

  Ah, the sweater that goes with everything, Griffin. The tee you somehow always reach for first.

• 1:11:28Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, we know the feeling.

• 1:11:30David Sims?

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does best.

• 1:11:34Griffin Newman?

  Quince.

• 1:11:34David Sims?

  This is true for me. I will say, I go to Quince, I buy a thing, like a polo shirt, a sweater, whatever, and I'm like, oh, I like that. Guess I'll get a bunch more. Cuz now that's what I'm gonna put on, because I get dressed basically in the dark. So the easier it is for me, the better.

• 1:11:51Griffin Newman?

  Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day.

• 1:12:06David Sims?

  Love it. They've got all kinds of stuff. They've got well-designed pieces for everyday living. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com, get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know. It was Blank Check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:12:27Griffin Newman?

  It was Blank Check all along.

• 1:12:29David Sims?

  Blank Check, it was you!

• 1:12:44David Sims?

  Kate Fear is the only time Scorsese works with Jessica Lange.

• 1:12:48Griffin Newman?

  Which is a little wild.

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's such a natural fit for him.

• 1:12:52Griffin Newman?

  And she is trying her hardest to make this role good.

• 1:12:55David Sims?

  Yeah, she really, I mean, honestly, the problem is that Juliette Lewis is so good and so vital. And then, so Jessica Lange is just kind of sweeping in being like, what is going on? It's like, ah, you're Jessica Lange.

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  She also looks fucking fantastic.

• 1:13:09David Sims?

  She looks incredible.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  That haircut.

• 1:13:10Griffin Newman?

  Her vibe is amazing, just chain smoking while doing graphic design on logos.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  Braless in a tank top, smoking, yeah.

• 1:13:18David Sims?

  She's never even heard of a bra in this movie. Oh, my gosh.

• 1:13:22Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a very interesting performance of an underwritten role, but you wish that off of this, Scorsese would have been like, I gotta find something better to do with you.

• 1:13:29David Sims?

  He just doesn't do a lot of preppy, you know, like, it's like, she wouldn't make sense as like, ethnic New York or whatever, right? Like, you know, maybe, but, you know, obviously Jessica Lange is, from eighty-three to ninety, gets five Oscar noms. Like, she is just like a very consistently laureled kind of, do you want to tell me the five?

• 1:13:49Griffin Newman?

  When does her second win happen?

• 1:13:51David Sims?

  Ninety-five.

• 1:13:51Griffin Newman?

  Okay, and that movie was on a shelf for like five years, right?

• 1:13:55David Sims?

  That's her sixth nom and her second.

• 1:13:57Griffin Newman?

  So the first year is the double nom, correct? Which is Frances for lead actress, and then she wins Tootsie for supporting?

• 1:14:04David Sims?

  Correct.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:14:05Griffin Newman?

  And then her other nominations.

• 1:14:07David Sims?

  I mean, they're forgotten movies.

• 1:14:09Griffin Newman?

  Cause this is like, she's the classic example of like, best actress nominees or winners with no other nominations for that film.

• 1:14:17David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, what are the other ones?

• 1:14:18David Sims?

  The films are Richard Pierce's Country.

• 1:14:21Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:14:21David Sims?

  Uh, which is about being on a farm. Sam Shepard's in it. I bet she's like, I'm on a farm! Sorry, I love Jessica Lange. Uh, then, uh, Carol Rice's Sweet Dreams, which is the Patsy Cline movie.

• 1:14:33Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:14:34David Sims?

  Which I've never seen. And then the Costa Gavris movie, uh, Music Box, which is like a legal thriller where she's like a Hungarian immigrant.

• 1:14:41Griffin Newman?

  Someone was telling me that Music Box was really good. Maybe Rob Shear.

• 1:14:45David Sims?

  I bet you it's good.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  Did either of you guys see her in Long Day's Journey Into Night?

• 1:14:48David Sims?

  No.

• 1:14:48Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:14:49Speaker 02

  Oh, with Michael Shannon? Oh, she was fucking, it was fucking insane.

• 1:14:52David Sims?

  My butt hurts at the thought of going to some Broadway theater for a four-hour ass play. No, I'm sure she was amazing.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  She was just, it was insane. No one, no one was matching her, even like Gabriel Byrne and everybody. It was crazy.

• 1:15:06Griffin Newman?

  I saw her do Glacmasery, and she was fucking incredible.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:11David Sims?

  She's the best. Obviously, she has seventeen Golden Globes, you know, cause she would also do so many TV, uh, movies and stuff like that.

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  The Ryan Murphy universe.

• 1:15:20David Sims?

  Yeah, well, that's the real problem. It's like the Lange-Palsson situation where it's just like, he just has them.

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:26David Sims?

  And like, I get the consistency of the work or whatever, but it's like, can you just let him do other stuff for once in a while?

• 1:15:31Griffin Newman?

  Let's admit, the guy was at least savvy about the strategy of Hollywood stops finding good roles for good actresses.

• 1:15:39David Sims?

  For like a diva, essentially, yeah.

• 1:15:40Griffin Newman?

  Even Oscar-winning actresses over the age of forty, fifty, sixty, seventy.

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:44Griffin Newman?

  And was just like, I will just supply them with a fire hose of work that never ends.

• 1:15:49David Sims?

  Where they go, ah! Um, like, I just feel like they're like a Now for American Horror Story, season fourteen, they're like, Sarah Paulson's playing like a creepy nurse. And I'm like, surely she's done that six times at this point. Like, she's always playing a creepy nurse.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  She's ratchet.

• 1:16:03Griffin Newman?

  I mean, right, she's got, there's the Long Day's Journey Into Night movie, which is finally coming out.

• 1:16:09David Sims?

  I believe it, I believe it came out.

• 1:16:10Griffin Newman?

  Did it just come out?

• 1:16:11David Sims?

  Possibly.

• 1:16:13Griffin Newman?

  But it was a big thing that it was like on a shelf for many, many years. It filmed in twenty-twenty-two.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  Is she in it?

• 1:16:18Griffin Newman?

  It just came out in September.

• 1:16:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  I totally missed it.

• 1:16:21Griffin Newman?

  It's her and Ed Harris, but she's made three movies in the last ten years.

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:16:26David Sims?

  My brother, the great Joey Sims, texted me, yes, September twenty-fourth, no showtimes for Long Day's Journey in New York, not even the quad. I'm laughing. And I said, not a real movie, I feel. And he says, I bet they never finished it. It's just a Zoom call at the end.

• 1:16:42Griffin Newman?

  It literally didn't open in New York City.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  Who are the other two, who are the brothers?

• 1:16:46Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Ben Foster, probably playing it very calm.

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:50Griffin Newman?

  And Colin Morgan, who I'm not familiar with, is an Irish actor.

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  That's the other, that's like the, the dying brother. That was like John Gallagher Jr. when I saw it. You know who also launched their stage career in that play was Kevin Spacey.

• 1:17:05David Sims?

  He's a Eugene O'Neill interpreter, like, that was part of his, uh, yeah, the movie is two hours long, too, which like, that means they made some heavy edits.

• 1:17:14Griffin Newman?

  David Lindsay-Abarre readapted the play.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:17:17David Sims?

  I don't think you should be doing that. Um.

• 1:17:20Griffin Newman?

  Do you know that Eva and I are in a group text, one of many group texts I'm on, that's called The Adults in the Room, with a little graphic of Kevin Spacey from the Let Me Be Frank video?

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  Who got interviewed by Tucker Carlson.

• 1:17:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  That was that from that year.

• 1:17:33David Sims?

  Is it just updates on whatever Spaceman's doing right now?

• 1:17:36Griffin Newman?

  Now it's just become.

• 1:17:37David Sims?

  He's in the Hotel Aviv doing little kicks on stage.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  We do send a lot of Brett Gellman photos, right?

• 1:17:41Griffin Newman?

  We do. It's become bad things happening in show business.

• 1:17:44David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:17:44Griffin Newman?

  But it started as like Christmas Eve, waiting for the new Spacey video.

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:48David Sims?

  Yeah, right. And then he like, didn't, he's kind of skipped a couple of years, right?

• 1:17:52Griffin Newman?

  He's skipped a couple of years.

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  He's not doing, he, he just did Club Random, which I've listened to in its entirety twice.

• 1:17:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it's probably the best film of twenty-twenty-six.

• 1:17:58David Sims?

  You know, mental health, like, just Google, like, if you're in trouble, Eva, you need help.

• 1:18:04Griffin Newman?

  You need to watch it. You need to enter the club.

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  You do watch him just slide into his Jack Lemmon impersonation, so.

• 1:18:10David Sims?

  Nothing in my life suggests that there's a pocket, like, of time open for me to watch a Club Random, you know what I mean? Like, I just don't know where there's an hour for that.

• 1:18:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I feel that.

• 1:18:21Speaker 02

  Richard Dreyfuss, if you're gonna do one, you've gotta do Dreyfuss sliding down. Yeah, he slides down the chair, yeah.

• 1:18:27Griffin Newman?

  Wait, are these guys smoking weed?

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're drinking and smoking weed.

• 1:18:31Griffin Newman?

  Are they really?

• 1:18:32David Sims?

  Spacey's not smoking weed, I feel like.

• 1:18:34Griffin Newman?

  I think he's drinking.

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  No, he's drinking whiskey.

• 1:18:36Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  But Mara's always doing both, and if the show, if the episode goes like two hours, then he gets really weepy about how mean people are to him.

• 1:18:44David Sims?

  Oh, interesting. He doesn't strike me as a guy with thin skin at all. Bill Maher?

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  And he just starts saying the same shit as always, like, everyone's so mad at me for meeting.

• 1:18:53David Sims?

  Sounds so random.

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  Cause I had dinner with Trump.

• 1:18:55David Sims?

  Fuck, you had dinner with Trump, you worthless nag.

• 1:19:00Speaker 02

  You should watch Club Random. You know who'd be good on Club Random is Max Cady.

• 1:19:06Griffin Newman?

  He'd be great.

• 1:19:07David Sims?

  This guy, he railroaded me. Do you think Clint Eastwood watched Kate Fear and was like, I think he got railroaded?

• 1:19:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, Bill Maher would argue that Me Too went too far with Max Cady.

• 1:19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, you used to be able to just stick your finger or your thumb in a woman's mouth, and it wasn't such a big deal. Seventeen-year-old, it's fine.

• 1:19:24Griffin Newman?

  That was America.

• 1:19:25David Sims?

  Uh, Jessica Lange says, I will just, to wrap this up, the role wasn't much more than the wife.

• 1:19:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:19:31David Sims?

  I don't think they really planned on addressing the character until I joined, and I'm such an admirer of Marty, and I met with him and realized he was wide open to doing something at least. You know, they're all doing this sort of like, Jessica brought a lot to the role. And like, of course she does, but it's certainly the least interesting of the lead roles, I would say. And of course, Mitchum, Balsam, Peck, all come out. This is Gregory Peck's final film role.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:19:55Griffin Newman?

  Wow. Uh, he lives for like another ten years, right?

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  That hair is dyed.

• 1:20:00David Sims?

  You, what?

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  Like Mitchum is just white, silver haired, but like.

• 1:20:09David Sims?

  Mitchum had a whole kind of old guy era that, like, you know, his face really suited being an old guy. I mean, my favorite, oh, there's so much good Mitchum. Mitchum is such, I mean, obviously fucking, you know, Night of the Hunter is like the best shit in the world.

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  My, he was also a, my, my, my grandfather was a fifties race car driver, and he would race Mitchum. Mitchum was also a, would race like.

• 1:20:34David Sims?

  That sounds like the kind of shit you do, right?

• 1:20:37Griffin Newman?

  Fucking rules.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  He's like, James Dean and him were like at all the road races.

• 1:20:41David Sims?

  Uh, my favorite Mitchum is Friends of Eddie Coyle. Have you ever seen it?

• 1:20:43Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 1:20:44David Sims?

  The Peter Yates movie, uh, where, which is just, you know, you know, you need a guy who looks like he'd smoked four billion cigarettes that day.

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  Whatever.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  Guy.

• 1:20:52David Sims?

  I just wanted to, like, yeah, Peck's, uh, yeah, cause he's in, Peck is in, um, Other People's Money, the same year, the DeVito comedy, which is fairly bad, directed by Norman Jewett.

• 1:21:03Griffin Newman?

  Never seen.

• 1:21:03David Sims?

  I've seen that. It's not very good, but he's like the nice local factory owner that Danny DeVito's showing up and being like. Nice money. What if it was mine? Or, you know, whatever that movie is about.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  I just remember the trailer for that had DeVito going, "Other people's money." Like, in the trailer.

• 1:21:19David Sims?

  You know, it was just them being like, can we do ruthless people, but he's even less likable?

• 1:21:23Griffin Newman?

  Right. I feel like it's one of three different DeVito movies where the poster is him smoking a cigar.

• 1:21:28David Sims?

  Correct, correct. Um, but yeah, this is Pec's final film role. Scorsese said, "I wanted to get as many people as possible of the original." We eventually just kind of ran out of characters. Which is true. Like, there's only like, you know, so many places for these people to go, I guess, you know. Uh, Juliette Lewis. Had been declared legally an adult at the age of 14.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Oh, she like emancipated herself?

• 1:21:51David Sims?

  Yes. She was 18 when the movie came out. It was dating Brad Pitt.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Funny if that hap- if that happened. And it just happened to you randomly? Like, you just get legally declared an adult?

• 1:22:02David Sims?

  Oh, just, just in case.

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  Or just like, somebody's like, "This girl's an adult."

• 1:22:06Griffin Newman?

  Like lightning strikes.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:22:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  Oh, that's weird. She's dating Brad Pitt.

• 1:22:10Griffin Newman?

  Yep, really weird.

• 1:22:11David Sims?

  Uh, I mean, they're in, what movie are they in together? California?

• 1:22:14Griffin Newman?

  California.

• 1:22:14David Sims?

  Terrible movie.

• 1:22:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:15David Sims?

  This is Lynch, uh, Scorsese's only collaboration with Freddie Francis, who obviously I mentioned, you know, David Lynch, uh, he works with him on Elf, Man and the Street Story. But he loves him because he made Hammer Horror movies, understands Gothic atmosphere.

• 1:22:26Griffin Newman?

  Beautiful looking film.

• 1:22:27David Sims?

  Uh, he would just say to him things like, "This needs to look like hell." And Freddie Francis would be like, "Got it." You know, "I know what to do."

• 1:22:33Griffin Newman?

  There's a special feature on the Blu-ray that's erroneously called matte paintings, because they're not paintings. They're like composite shots with movement. But so many of the clouds and in any of the like vistas of this movie.

• 1:22:43David Sims?

  Unbelievable.

• 1:22:44Griffin Newman?

  Are all special effects.

• 1:22:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  Beautiful.

• 1:22:46Griffin Newman?

  Um, and just like the colors cranked all the way up and obviously the fireworks sequence.

• 1:22:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:22:51Griffin Newman?

  Uh, just sort of like nightmare fantasia shit that I love.

• 1:22:54David Sims?

  Yeah, it's interesting because Freddie's like, "I'm a black and white guy." I'm not even a color guy, like, but, you know, I still photograph in black and white. But I think of things in terms of light and shade rather than color, and it just sort of works out, uh, which is interesting.

• 1:23:07Griffin Newman?

  He lights it like a black and white film.

• 1:23:09David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:09Griffin Newman?

  Especially like the interiors in the house and the conversations. Yeah.

• 1:23:12David Sims?

  I, it's an unbelievable movie in terms of craft, in my opinion. Just like, it's kind of that classic thing where it's, I mean, like, again, I do enjoy the movie. But it's a little bit of like a speedboat in a bathtub situation. Where you're just like, Martin Scorsese? He's doing, like, he's lowering himself to this kind of 90s erotic thriller, essentially.

• 1:23:31Griffin Newman?

  You read the time, some of the response was that, where it's just like, is he really just gonna become a guy for hire using his craft?

• 1:23:38David Sims?

  And now that we know that's not what happens to Marty, like, it's way less baggage on this movie. You're just like, this is just fun. Like, I get it. This is crazy and wacky and, you know, I get that. Uh, his first Cinemascope movie as well.

• 1:23:49Griffin Newman?

  Wild.

• 1:23:50David Sims?

  It had gone kind of out of fashion, so like, they said the equipment was kind of old. But, uh, yeah, he wanted, you know, it to feel like a big action movie, so he wanted, you know, scale. They built a big old sound, uh, they had a tank, yeah, in Florida, that they then turned into a soundstage. They had something called the Penetate, uh, which could revolve the camera. But they also used it as like a mount on the boat to give you a feeling of rocking back and forth. That's cool.

• 1:24:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 1:24:20David Sims?

  Uh, for those sorts of shots.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  The 60s version, I feel like, doesn't use the boat to its fullest potential. And this movie is like boat central.

• 1:24:29David Sims?

  Right. Thelma Scoomaker says, "The way that he moves the camera in this one is like Marty grabbing him by the back of the neck and going, 'Look at this! Look at that!'" And she's like, and he can get away with it in this one, because it's a thriller. Uh, they fell behind schedule a little bit.

• 1:24:42Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:24:43David Sims?

  You know, uh, the shots were a little complicated, a lot of camera moves. You know, Marty's like, exposition, "My strength's elsewhere." You know, "I like to express my feelings in, in camera and all that." And like, he just, he, he always says this about himself. He's like, "I'm not a plot guy." You know, "It's just not what I care about." And this is sort of a plotty movie, but not-

• 1:25:04Griffin Newman?

  One of his plottier films.

• 1:25:05David Sims?

  Not fundamentally, though, it is. Well, yeah, I guess so. But, you know, it's like, it's a pretty simple problem.

• 1:25:10Griffin Newman?

  It is, but it ratchets in a very linear way.

• 1:25:13David Sims?

  Nurse ratchet.

• 1:25:14Griffin Newman?

  Hey.

• 1:25:15David Sims?

  Uh, score by Bernard Herrmann.

• 1:25:17Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:17David Sims?

  When I was a kid, I thought it was just the score from the first movie. Because it's so classic.

• 1:25:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:22David Sims?

  You know what I mean? Like, I thought it was like, oh, how clever of Marty to just like-

• 1:25:25Griffin Newman?

  Reuse it.

• 1:25:25David Sims?

  Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great score.

• 1:25:27Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:28David Sims?

  He also, you know, obviously, he'd worked with them on Taxi Driver. He loves Psycho. But he's also, "I love Vertigo, I love Marnie, I like, uh, The Ghost in Mrs. Muir."

• 1:25:37Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:37David Sims?

  Muir.

• 1:25:38Griffin Newman?

  Muir.

• 1:25:40David Sims?

  So that's all I have to say about Kate Fear. Talk about Kate Fear. Max Cady.

• 1:25:45Griffin Newman?

  Max Cady.

• 1:25:45David Sims?

  A psychopathic rapist.

• 1:25:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:47David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:25:47Speaker 02

  Canonical through all iterations. That's his main thing he loves to do.

• 1:25:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes. He's a physically abusive rapist.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:57David Sims?

  Yeah, he's, he's a fucked up guy.

• 1:25:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:00Griffin Newman?

  He's no good, very bad, don't do it.

• 1:26:01David Sims?

  He was in prison for the rape and battery of a 16-year-old girl for 14 years.

• 1:26:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:26:08David Sims?

  And his public defender was Nick Nolte.

• 1:26:10Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:26:11David Sims?

  And Nick Nolte, abandoning the role of the public defender, I will say, just thought he was such a shithead that he just did a bad job defending him.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  Well, he, he buried the sexual history of the girl.

• 1:26:21Griffin Newman?

  There was a piece of evidence of-

• 1:26:23David Sims?

  The girl was promiscuous, or whatever, quote unquote.

• 1:26:25Griffin Newman?

  You know, he points out, like, that's insane that it would even sway the jury.

• 1:26:29David Sims?

  But he does not let it come to light, and Max Cady realizes this eventually.

• 1:26:34Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to give them that information, because that's a, emblematic of societal rot.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:39Griffin Newman?

  And this guy doesn't deserve anything in his side.

• 1:26:42David Sims?

  So Sam, Nick Nolte now, he's a private practice. Lives in a nice house in North Carolina with his family. Wife, Lee.

• 1:26:50Griffin Newman?

  Maybe has a bit of a wandering eye.

• 1:26:52David Sims?

  Daughter, Dani. Yeah, that's right. Max Cady, who didn't know how to read, starts off with ABC, you know?

• 1:27:00Griffin Newman?

  C-Spot run.

• 1:27:01David Sims?

  Right, exactly. Moves on to the North Carolina penal code. I just love it. He's basically just like, "All of my education was designed to fuck you." Like, you know what I mean? Like, "I learned all this stuff only to get revenge on you."

• 1:27:13Griffin Newman?

  He's got the scales of justice tattooed on his back.

• 1:27:15Speaker 02

  And he's also like, "And it's not that I didn't do it, I did it."

• 1:27:19Griffin Newman?

  I did it. But you did a bad job-

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:21Griffin Newman?

  -representing me.

• 1:27:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I, yeah, I, I love that there's just no ambiguity to the awfulness of Max Cady. That it's just like, right.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  That like in, near the end, he's like, basically when he's like redoing the trial, he's like, "You did, you buried the part that would've got me off for raping that girl, so I'm gonna rape this girl."

• 1:27:41Griffin Newman?

  Right, it's horrendous.

• 1:27:42Speaker 02

  The punishment you get is that I do the thing you-

• 1:27:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  That we talked about.

• 1:27:46Griffin Newman?

  I prove you correct in a more personal way.

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:50David Sims?

  Um, and it's basically just Sam finding, trying to find ways to deal with it as inconspicuously as possible without being embarrassed.

• 1:27:59Griffin Newman?

  That this guy has learned the law so well that he's figured out good ways to fuck with him.

• 1:28:03David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:04Griffin Newman?

  Towing just up to the line.

• 1:28:05David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:28:06Griffin Newman?

  Without anything being persecuted.

• 1:28:08David Sims?

  And it's just sort of Sam being pushed like further and further towards like, "Well, I guess I should hire a P.I." "Well, I guess I should hire people to attack him."

• 1:28:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:16David Sims?

  Right, like, I should, he just goes like, down the chain of guys you don't want to call on the phone-

• 1:28:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:28:21David Sims?

  -to try and help you out, right?

• 1:28:23Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  But also like proving that Max Cady wants to prove that like, the society is actually a disadvantaged people like him.

• 1:28:32Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  And that if you do have money and status, you can work outside the bounds of like politeness and even like morals. And you don't get in trouble for it.

• 1:28:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  So it's, it's about him, um, infecting Nolte with being like, "You, I'm gonna make you a bad person before I kill you, kill your family."

• 1:28:50Griffin Newman?

  Right, I'm gonna show you how quickly anyone can get corrupted.

• 1:28:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm gonna corrupt, yes, corruption.

• 1:28:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Um, but, but also the fact that like, Nolte's ego is on trial, because, uh, he, he was technically derelict in his responsibilities-

• 1:29:06David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:29:07Griffin Newman?

  -as a public defender.

• 1:29:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:29:09Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he doesn't want to be exposed in that way. And the other thing is, he has a history of infidelities, and he's having this emotional workplace affair with Illyana Douglas.

• 1:29:19David Sims?

  Now-

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  She implies that got physical, like he, they fucked or something, right?

• 1:29:23David Sims?

  Well, she sort of says like, "We haven't done anything yet."

• 1:29:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:29:28David Sims?

  There's like one line she has something along, but she's like, "But I love hanging out with you and, you know, getting in a good game of squash," or whatever it is.

• 1:29:34Griffin Newman?

  They're, they're like aggressively testing the boundaries, and it feels like they're having an open conversation about the fact that they clearly want to fuck.

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that he would do it if she, he wasn't married.

• 1:29:43Griffin Newman?

  But he's trying to stay on the right line of just like, "Well, technically, nothing's happened."

• 1:29:47David Sims?

  Right, the implication is, they are, are just having, right, like, inappropriate flirtation. But I guess he's like her boss.

• 1:29:53Griffin Newman?

  He's had affairs in the past, though. He was caught in this. He relocated the family to try to save the marriage.

• 1:29:59David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, it's pretty obvious near the end, or in the middle of the movie, when Jessica Lange is like, "You and your infidelities." It's like, if Max Cady goes to Jessica Lange and is like, "He's flirting with Illyana Douglas." I don't think Jessica Lange is gonna be like, fainting at the thought. She'll be like, "Yeah, I know what he's like, like, yes, this is what I suffer through already." So it's funny that Sam is so defensive about, you know, like, you know, trying to not let this get him in trouble.

• 1:30:23Griffin Newman?

  But the family's fragile. I mean, he accuses her of sort of holding him hostage in the marriage by acting like she was on the brink, at the brink of some sort of- Psychotic break or collapse or whatever it is. And then Juliette Lewis is getting to rebellious age.

• 1:30:41Speaker 02

  She smoked weed.

• 1:30:42Griffin Newman?

  She smoked weed.

• 1:30:43David Sims?

  The devil's lettuce.

• 1:30:44Griffin Newman?

  The wackiest of the tobacco.

• 1:30:47Speaker 02

  He's a weasel, though. He is a-

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  He's a little fucker.

• 1:30:49Speaker 02

  He has, he is poor character at the beginning and then he just keeps like slipping and slipping and slipping.

• 1:30:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but I like that it's not like, well, which one of them is really bad?

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  Oh, no, totally. No, I'm just saying-

• 1:31:00Griffin Newman?

  There, there's a really lame version of this movie-

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:04Griffin Newman?

  That gives Max Cady more plausible deniability and makes the Nolte character worse.

• 1:31:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:31:10Griffin Newman?

  And I like that it's the right balance of the two.

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  That is the show.

• 1:31:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, see, that, that's what I don't want.

• 1:31:15Speaker 03

  Is he like a shady lawyer? Like, is his, like, is he kind of like a scumier kind of defense lawyer?

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  Well, he shouldn't know some of the people that he's able to access very easily. I think that's what it's implied to. It's like he runs in weird circles that are a little slimy.

• 1:31:30Griffin Newman?

  And I think he's very high-class sort of reputation protection. That's my guess.

• 1:31:35David Sims?

  He definitely also just shits on like being a public defender. He's like, well, that's why I didn't like being a public defender.

• 1:31:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:40David Sims?

  Which is, I would say, a nobler form of lawyer, even if you have to defend someone who's probably not innocent, so you're still doing a civic service. Yes. I, yeah, he's-

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  He's creeping on his paralegal.

• 1:31:53David Sims?

  I say this with all due respect. What southern lawyer in a movie is not like, is kind of a scumbag? Like, is there, I mean-

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  Matthew McConaughey?

• 1:32:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  Matthew McConaughey in A Time to Kill is a good man.

• 1:32:05Griffin Newman?

  Is a good man.

• 1:32:07David Sims?

  That's a very, a movie with a real handle on how things work.

• 1:32:10Speaker 02

  Good sweaty man.

• 1:32:11David Sims?

  Realistic.

• 1:32:11Griffin Newman?

  Joel Schumacher figured it out.

• 1:32:13David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:15David Sims?

  No, I guess, of course, there's the occasional kind of like angelic southern lawyer, but usually a southern lawyer is like, well, ma, ma, ma, what brings you to my office today? You know, that kind of guy.

• 1:32:24Griffin Newman?

  What's the deal with the Lincoln lawyer?

• 1:32:25David Sims?

  Well, the Lincoln lawyer's not southern. He's in like California.

• 1:32:28Griffin Newman?

  Oh, really?

• 1:32:29David Sims?

  Yeah, he works out of his Lincoln, you see.

• 1:32:30Griffin Newman?

  I know nothing about him.

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:32David Sims?

  The Lincoln lawyer is-

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  A David E. Kelly show.

• 1:32:35David Sims?

  Now a show, but I will say-

• 1:32:37Speaker 02

  Like, it's sixth season, I think.

• 1:32:38David Sims?

  Yeah, well, it's got a premise. He's in his fucking Lincoln. He can do any case. Uh, it's a very watchable movie.

• 1:32:45Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 1:32:45David Sims?

  Yeah, Lincoln Lawyer's fun.

• 1:32:46Griffin Newman?

  That's Lincoln Lawyer.

• 1:32:47David Sims?

  I mean, you don't have to.

• 1:32:48Griffin Newman?

  No, I must.

• 1:32:50David Sims?

  It's like a solid legal thriller.

• 1:32:52Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:32:52David Sims?

  Except, but the premise is like he works from his Lincoln.

• 1:32:54Griffin Newman?

  I like that. That's fun. That's like, eh, the bowling alley lawyer.

• 1:32:58Speaker 03

  I like the lawyer in Aaron Brockovich.

• 1:33:01David Sims?

  Albert Finney. That's also California.

• 1:33:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, California.

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  He's a good lawyer.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  I thought it was Texas.

• 1:33:06David Sims?

  Aaron Brockovich is so desert-y, so I know what you mean. Like, it's all her going out to those weird towns, but it's in, it's in California.

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  Central Valley.

• 1:33:13David Sims?

  Yeah. Uh, I mean, he's the, he's my favorite movie character of all time.

• 1:33:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:17David Sims?

  Like, he's the best, that is my favorite performance in a movie, is Albert Finney and Aaron Brockovich. I think-

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  He's really great.

• 1:33:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  Did he win?

• 1:33:26David Sims?

  No, no, no.

• 1:33:27Griffin Newman?

  He never won an Oscar.

• 1:33:28David Sims?

  No, he didn't fucking win. And he sealed Del Toro one for some shit called Traffic. I hope he hangs his head in shame.

• 1:33:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the other fucking Steven Soderbergh supporting performance.

• 1:33:37David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:37Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 1:33:37David Sims?

  I mean, like, it was one of those things where I was like, the Del Toro performance is fantastic. I got no problem with that winning, but, you know, Finney, Finney needed the win there.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:33:46David Sims?

  I think.

• 1:33:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but also they could have just fucking nominated him for Big Fish and then he beats Tim Robbins for Mystic River in 2003.

• 1:33:52Speaker 02

  Tim Robbins Mystic River.

• 1:33:53David Sims?

  The problem with Tim Robbins is in Mystic River is it's too soft. There's like 15 guys who should have won that year probably, right?

• 1:34:00Griffin Newman?

  You know my personal pick?

• 1:34:01David Sims?

  I don't.

• 1:34:02Griffin Newman?

  Nick Nolte and Hulk.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  That was the year I worked on the Oscars.

• 1:34:05David Sims?

  Really?

• 1:34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:07David Sims?

  Who was the host?

• 1:34:08Speaker 02

  Billy Crystal.

• 1:34:10Griffin Newman?

  Return of the King.

• 1:34:11Speaker 02

  Return of the King year. It was Naked Gollum. I did the opening film for him.

• 1:34:15David Sims?

  I remember the opening film being funny.

• 1:34:16Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 1:34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, he, I had to get Jack Nicholson's sunglasses and have them duplicated.

• 1:34:21Griffin Newman?

  Billy, light them up.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  Light them up, kid.

• 1:34:24David Sims?

  But was it one of those things where like, they were like, sort of get Nicholson's sunglasses? It's like a leprechaun where like, you, he can't know that you're taking them. So, we're gonna distract him with a beautiful lady.

• 1:34:34Speaker 02

  You had to send them to Japan to be duplicated by the people that made them. So they had to ship his sunglasses to Japan, which meant for like two weeks, he didn't have them.

• 1:34:42David Sims?

  Wait, what? He doesn't have a spare?

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  No, I don't know. Those sunglasses have to be replicated.

• 1:34:48David Sims?

  Stomping into lamp posts or whatever.

• 1:34:51Speaker 02

  It was crazy.

• 1:34:52David Sims?

  It was so funny when Nicholson started just wearing them in movies. Like, it just sort of became one of those things where he was like, please stay on.

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  But we had to do a shot of Billy Crystal looking out at the back of the Mystic River car going off to be molested.

• 1:35:05Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:35:08Griffin Newman?

  Was this a Joel Gallin film?

• 1:35:10Speaker 02

  Uh, Troy Miller.

• 1:35:11Griffin Newman?

  Troy Miller.

• 1:35:11David Sims?

  Mystic River, a tough parody. Like, I definitely imagine Crystal watching that going like, ooh, where do I go in this one? I'm not sure.

• 1:35:19Griffin Newman?

  There's not really a fun scene to parody.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:23David Sims?

  Uh, my winner that year is Bethany in Master and Commander.

• 1:35:26Griffin Newman?

  Oh, that's-

• 1:35:26David Sims?

  In 2003.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  That would have been great.

• 1:35:28David Sims?

  But I have Finney, I have, yeah, yeah. Del Toro again that year in 21 Grams.

• 1:35:32Griffin Newman?

  He is excellent in that film.

• 1:35:33David Sims?

  So good in that movie.

• 1:35:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:34David Sims?

  Uh, and Stars Guarding Chattered Glasses that year, which is an unbelievable performance.

• 1:35:39Speaker 02

  That is, it was nominated.

• 1:35:41David Sims?

  It was. He, he got a lot of critics awards and he was close, I think.

• 1:35:44Griffin Newman?

  They fucked up that year.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  One of the best ones.

• 1:35:46David Sims?

  What do you mean, Robin?

• 1:35:50Griffin Newman?

  Rockin' Robbins.

• 1:35:52David Sims?

  Uh, what are the, is Seabiscuit that year?

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  Seabiscuit.

• 1:35:55David Sims?

  Billy, you know?

• 1:35:56Speaker 02

  Seabiscuit was where Billy did-

• 1:35:57David Sims?

  Do Horseface?

• 1:35:58Speaker 02

  That's where he did, no, that's where he did Sammy, though, was for the Seabiscuit parody.

• 1:36:03David Sims?

  No, he did not.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  And it took all day to get into that makeup and then every single crew member had to take a picture with Sammy. And so that exists for every single person that worked on that film. It was just a piece of compromat.

• 1:36:15Griffin Newman?

  The thing that looms really large in, in my mind, in my memory, is that in the opening medley, his Seabiscuit song is set to Goldfinger.

• 1:36:24Speaker 02

  Seabiscuit. Yeah. It was a weird job, guys. It was a really weird job.

• 1:36:31Griffin Newman?

  Did you get to, were you there at the ceremony?

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  No, I was there for the rehearsal, though, so I got to watch the extras get, like, sit in the seats of the nominees and then-

• 1:36:40Griffin Newman?

  This is my dream.

• 1:36:40Speaker 02

  One extra got picked, the, every, like, award, and they got to give speech and say whatever they wanted.

• 1:36:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's what I want to see.

• 1:36:49Speaker 02

  And this was just a bunch of, just crazy people.

• 1:36:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes, perfect.

• 1:36:52Speaker 02

  Getting to be onstage with the Kodak, giving a speech, it was crazy.

• 1:36:56Griffin Newman?

  That's incredible.

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:57David Sims?

  He, he did Monster. He did some weird ones in this video.

• 1:37:00Speaker 02

  Come here, you little monster. That was it. Yeah, we added that last second.

• 1:37:03David Sims?

  The thing he iconically did was the, the, uh, Something's Gotta Give nude thing, where it's like, Nicholson sees him and then he sees Diane and then Diane- Like, they're all screaming. That was good.

• 1:37:14Griffin Newman?

  He's covering his privates. That worked.

• 1:37:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:17Griffin Newman?

  Uh, still, obviously-

• 1:37:18David Sims?

  The fuck made you Mystic River with him in the car? That is the worst. I'm sorry. There's gotta be something better than being kidnapped by child molesters. I'm sorry.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  I thought it was funny at the time. And we slipped that in.

• 1:37:30David Sims?

  Here's Sammy. Oh, God. Oh, my God.

• 1:37:34Griffin Newman?

  Is Sammy-

• 1:37:34David Sims?

  And then he did it again in 2010, yeah.

• 1:37:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And that's the one where he does his most offensive move ever, Tintin face.

• 1:37:40David Sims?

  Yes, when he did Tintin face, of course.

• 1:37:42Griffin Newman?

  Where he did Tintin face.

• 1:37:42David Sims?

  He also just low-key does Last Samurai, but I guess he's Tom Cruise, so it's okay.

• 1:37:46Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:37:46David Sims?

  He's, he's playing-

• 1:37:48Speaker 02

  He's Tom Cruise.

• 1:37:49David Sims?

  Yeah, he did Pirates of the Caribbean.

• 1:37:51Griffin Newman?

  Was he Jack?

• 1:37:52Speaker 02

  There was a thing that I think we cut it.

• 1:37:55David Sims?

  He's sort of Keira.

• 1:37:57Speaker 02

  They did Master and Commander that was like him standing behind a cannon. It went off and he's like, sorry, I tried to think about baseball or something, because he's naked. And then-

• 1:38:05David Sims?

  That's funny.

• 1:38:06Speaker 02

  Then, while we were editing it, the Janet Jackson boob thing happened.

• 1:38:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  So I had to go to the office on a Sunday so we could take that out.

• 1:38:15Griffin Newman?

  Because sex was illegal?

• 1:38:17Speaker 02

  He was worried that he was gonna get strung up for, for the, for the cannon joke and he was panicking.

• 1:38:23David Sims?

  Child molester Mystic River, that made it through?

• 1:38:26Speaker 02

  He was in a full panic.

• 1:38:28David Sims?

  Um, Michael Moore also gets stomped on by an elephant from Lord of the Rings.

• 1:38:32Speaker 02

  While he's saying like, this, this Lord of the Rings war was not voted on or something. He's making fun of himself from the year before.

• 1:38:39Griffin Newman?

  That's fun.

• 1:38:40David Sims?

  I love culture.

• 1:38:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, culture's-

• 1:38:42David Sims?

  I like high culture. And that's high culture.

• 1:38:44Griffin Newman?

  The highest of the cultures.

• 1:38:45Speaker 02

  They snuck, they filmed him in New York. Guys, it was a weird job.

• 1:38:49Griffin Newman?

  That sounds awesome.

• 1:39:44David Sims?

  Um, okay, Cape Fear. Okay, so Max Cady kills their dog.

• 1:39:49Griffin Newman?

  I mean, that's the first thing he does.

• 1:39:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:51David Sims?

  I mean, the first thing is the movie theater.

• 1:39:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the greatest.

• 1:39:55David Sims?

  The greatest intro you could give this guy.

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  Juliette Lewis weirdly calls her my mom's dog, which I find very interesting distinction.

• 1:40:02David Sims?

  Is that rebelliousness?

• 1:40:03Griffin Newman?

  Away from her family.

• 1:40:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I like that she's, she's fluffy, my mom's dog.

• 1:40:09David Sims?

  But, uh, yes, he, they know he did it, but they can't prove it, you know, the old classic.

• 1:40:14Griffin Newman?

  But let's, I mean, I just love him laughing at the movie theater like a fucking idiot at Problem Child.

• 1:40:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, Problem Child is a really good choice.

• 1:40:21Griffin Newman?

  It's such a good choice.

• 1:40:23David Sims?

  Do you think they had it rolling and like De Niro is miming laughing to the actual movie?

• 1:40:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's a method actor.

• 1:40:28David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:40:29Speaker 02

  He's like, John Ritter's killing it in this.

• 1:40:31Griffin Newman?

  But I love that that's the first seeding.

• 1:40:34David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:34Griffin Newman?

  Of like, I'm just gonna be annoying at a movie theater and not even make contact with them.

• 1:40:39David Sims?

  Right. And just the image of like the smoke rising around him on the, yeah, it is, it's, it's indelible.

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  It's funny that the family went out to see Problem Child together.

• 1:40:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:40:48David Sims?

  We're gonna do this as a family. Like, maybe Nolte's just so stressed out all the time. Problem Child is a fucking problem. We could all learn from the child.

• 1:40:58Griffin Newman?

  You're like, John Ritter.

• 1:41:01David Sims?

  Never seen Problem Child. Ben, you seen it?

• 1:41:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, of course.

• 1:41:04David Sims?

  I was gonna say, there's a Ben movie.

• 1:41:05Griffin Newman?

  Both of them? There are two?

• 1:41:06Speaker 03

  I think there might even be three.

• 1:41:08David Sims?

  There's a, there's a TV, uh, third.

• 1:41:10Griffin Newman?

  And an animated series?

• 1:41:11David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  It's not Macaulay Culkin. That's the.

• 1:41:13David Sims?

  Uh, that is the good son.

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  The good son.

• 1:41:15David Sims?

  Uh, Michael, Michael Oliver played the, the problem child.

• 1:41:19Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, he's a little redhead.

• 1:41:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:22Griffin Newman?

  Um, but yes, then, then he kills the dog.

• 1:41:24Speaker 03

  Well, wait, they go out to ice cream after and he buys them ice cream or something?

• 1:41:29Griffin Newman?

  Oh, he picks up the tap.

• 1:41:30Speaker 03

  Contact.

• 1:41:31Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's just kind of fucking with them around the edges.

• 1:41:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:35David Sims?

  And kind of daring Sam to, you know, talk about it, right? You know, in, in by existing. He's like, do you want to admit, you know, to something?

• 1:41:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:43David Sims?

  Uh, but then he targets Eliana Douglas pretty quickly.

• 1:41:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:41:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:48David Sims?

  Kind of, yeah, kind of the straight up most horrifying thing that happens in the movie and it's fairly early.

• 1:41:54Griffin Newman?

  Incredible performance.

• 1:41:56David Sims?

  And so out of nowhere, she's awesome. I love Eliana Douglas.

• 1:41:58Speaker 02

  I love her so much.

• 1:41:59David Sims?

  Yeah. And attacks her, bites her cheek, rapes her, but she doesn't want to, uh, report it because I guess she doesn't want to be tagged as like, you know, for her affair or emotional affair, right?

• 1:42:14Griffin Newman?

  She did also, she knows the legal system. She's like, I know what's gonna happen to me. I don't want to go through this.

• 1:42:19David Sims?

  Right, tarred and feathered. Right, it'll be, yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:22Speaker 02

  Cause she's a paralegal. She's like, I know the score.

• 1:42:25David Sims?

  Yeah, so this is when you have to call Joe Don Baker, I guess.

• 1:42:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:28David Sims?

  That's the next level of hell that you descend into.

• 1:42:31Speaker 02

  He's just Mitchell. He's Mitchell.

• 1:42:33David Sims?

  Okay, I'm sorry, who, who is he? You're saying he's this guy. Who, who is this?

• 1:42:37Speaker 02

  It's a, it's, it's an iconic episode of Mystery Science Theater where it's a movie where he plays like a shitty kind of drunk cop named Mitchell.

• 1:42:45David Sims?

  Ah, a brute force detective.

• 1:42:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's just, he's sweaty and disgusting in it and there's like a sex scene where he pulls a six pack of beer into the bed with his toe.

• 1:42:55Griffin Newman?

  And the movie's called Mitchell.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:57David Sims?

  Mitchell, Andrew B. McLaughlin.

• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  It is like one of the best Mystery Science Theaters. It's iconic.

• 1:43:04Griffin Newman?

  Famously dubbed him a big blurry sex machine.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  But, uh, and it is the one where Joel Hodgson leaves.

• 1:43:10Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  And is replaced. So it's, it's the final Joel episode.

• 1:43:13Griffin Newman?

  Got it.

• 1:43:14Speaker 02

  But it's what I associated with Joe Don Baker.

• 1:43:16David Sims?

  Something I know nothing about.

• 1:43:17Griffin Newman?

  Same.

• 1:43:18David Sims?

  That is like one of my major pop culture blind spots.

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:43:21David Sims?

  I will have fans on like social media be like, oh, but surely you've seen this mystery. I'm like, I've never seen it. I, I know what it is.

• 1:43:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:29David Sims?

  But I have no context for it.

• 1:43:31Speaker 02

  You had to have had early Comedy Central.

• 1:43:33David Sims?

  Right, I didn't have cable.

• 1:43:34Speaker 02

  Kids in the Hall and that was it. We had a satellite dish.

• 1:43:36Griffin Newman?

  I would watch Kids in the Hall on early Comedy Central and not Mystery Science Theater.

• 1:43:39Speaker 02

  I totally get it.

• 1:43:39Griffin Newman?

  It totally just went over me.

• 1:43:41Speaker 02

  You weren't lonely enough.

• 1:43:42Griffin Newman?

  Hmm, I'm gonna push back on that.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  You had to be lonely enough to watch a movie twice in one day.

• 1:43:48Griffin Newman?

  I just think I went lateral in my loneliness.

• 1:43:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:52Speaker 02

  That's Joe Don Baker.

• 1:43:52David Sims?

  That's Joe Don Baker. So you call him in and he's.

• 1:43:55Speaker 03

  He's also a corrupt cop in Fletch.

• 1:43:57David Sims?

  He is, yeah. And like 15 other things, I imagine. He's always a corrupt cop.

• 1:44:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:03David Sims?

  He's in James Bond. He is weirdly, as we've already covered on our Patreon, he's the villain in The Living Daylights and then Bond's friend in GoldenEye and Tomorrow Never Dies. A different character.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  He's in Volcano, I think, too.

• 1:44:14David Sims?

  Coast is toast.

• 1:44:15Griffin Newman?

  I mean, he had an incredible career.

• 1:44:16David Sims?

  Um, I'm not seeing Volcano. He died in 2025.

• 1:44:22Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 1:44:23David Sims?

  At the age of 89.

• 1:44:23Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:44:24David Sims?

  But he basically seems to have retired from acting in like the sort of mid 2000s.

• 1:44:28Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:29David Sims?

  Uh, his final role, that he had a tiny role in Mud, though, which is 2012.

• 1:44:33Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:44:33Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 1:44:33David Sims?

  Jeff Nichols movie. I'm not seeing Volcano.

• 1:44:37Griffin Newman?

  He's in Congo.

• 1:44:37Speaker 02

  Congo, I meant Congo. Sorry, I meant Congo.

• 1:44:40Griffin Newman?

  We always mean Congo.

• 1:44:41Speaker 02

  They go to a volcano in Congo.

• 1:44:43David Sims?

  Yeah, where you are the endangered species. I just love to do the tackle.

• 1:44:49Speaker 02

  Amy Good Gorilla.

• 1:44:50Griffin Newman?

  Amy Good Gorilla.

• 1:44:51David Sims?

  Amy Good Gorilla.

• 1:44:52Speaker 03

  Tracy Letts despises that film.

• 1:44:54David Sims?

  Sean Fantasy loves it.

• 1:44:55Speaker 02

  That's the only one he doesn't like. That's the one movie.

• 1:44:58Speaker 03

  Just that one.

• 1:44:58Griffin Newman?

  Owns it on 4K.

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  But we talked about it on the episode.

• 1:45:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  And he was very, um.

• 1:45:03David Sims?

  It's a.

• 1:45:04Speaker 03

  Anti.

• 1:45:04Speaker 02

  It's a very stupid movie.

• 1:45:06Griffin Newman?

  It's a fun, a fun estimate.

• 1:45:07David Sims?

  It's a little fun.

• 1:45:08Speaker 03

  I don't know. I think it's got.

• 1:45:10Speaker 02

  It's got Laura Linney talking to a gorilla.

• 1:45:11Speaker 03

  I thought you were thinking.

• 1:45:14David Sims?

  It's got me thinking. I gotta keep away from hippos. That's what's got me thinking about. Um, went to the Bronx recently?

• 1:45:20Griffin Newman?

  Congrats.

• 1:45:22David Sims?

  Fucking rocks.

• 1:45:23Griffin Newman?

  Better than Central Park?

• 1:45:24David Sims?

  I mean, there's no comparison. It's, why, it's like 50 times the size. It's so huge. You gotta go.

• 1:45:30Griffin Newman?

  I've been. I can't remember the last time. It was when I was a child.

• 1:45:32David Sims?

  I think we covered about, we were there for hours and we covered about half of it. It's so massive.

• 1:45:37Griffin Newman?

  They have any 4D movies?

• 1:45:39David Sims?

  I texted you and JD a picture. They, there's something about Saving the Gorillas. It didn't look exciting enough. I think maybe the aquarium has something that rocks and rolls a little bit. At least Jocelyn's.

• 1:45:49Griffin Newman?

  Gotta find something.

• 1:45:50David Sims?

  Maybe some Jocelyn.

• 1:45:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:52David Sims?

  Um, but anyway, uh, Claude Kursek.

• 1:45:56Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:56David Sims?

  That's the, uh, Joe Don Baker character, private investigator, which I guess he's just sort of looking for like, can you catch this guy doing something bad and then I'll, I'll have something back on him or whatever.

• 1:46:06Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:46:06David Sims?

  Right? The next big thing is that, you know, him, uh, Katie seducing Juliette Lewis or pretending to be her drama teacher.

• 1:46:14Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:46:14David Sims?

  Yeah. What do you guys think?

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 1:46:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Nolte makes contact with him. There's the scene with the car keys.

• 1:46:20David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:46:20Griffin Newman?

  Which is taken basically directly from the original film.

• 1:46:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:24Griffin Newman?

  Um, and then there's the moment of Jessica Lange coming out to get the mail and interfacing with him.

• 1:46:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:30Griffin Newman?

  And she's sort of fascinated and it's in the wake of her finding out about the Eliana Douglas thing.

• 1:46:36David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:36Griffin Newman?

  So she's sort of emotionally stirred up and she's a little bit like, not, she's curious. She's not.

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  He also has gotten the dog at that point, too. She's like, I know who you are, Max Cady.

• 1:46:46Griffin Newman?

  Right. She takes him seriously.

• 1:46:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:48Griffin Newman?

  Uh, but then Juliette Lewis makes the mistake of coming out calling for her mom.

• 1:46:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:52Griffin Newman?

  Max Cady clocks her and is like, there's my fucking angle right there.

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  There's a cutie pie.

• 1:46:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:57David Sims?

  Um, is there any sexual dynamic between, uh, Katie and Sam? And there isn't.

• 1:47:07Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:47:07David Sims?

  But would that be interesting?

• 1:47:09Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's, sounds like what the Apple series asks.

• 1:47:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:13David Sims?

  You know, like, is there a way, I mean, cause obviously there is a little bit in that Katie is this like disgusting alpha kind of sexual and like Sam's this kind of like shrinking violet or whatever. But it's interesting that there's no tension there, but I guess it's the early 90s.

• 1:47:26Speaker 02

  I think also he doesn't, he likes girls.

• 1:47:30David Sims?

  He does, yeah.

• 1:47:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:30David Sims?

  He's got, he's got.

• 1:47:31Speaker 02

  He doesn't want a full grown woman.

• 1:47:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:47:33David Sims?

  Um, yes, but anyway, uh, yeah, the seduction of Juliette Lewis, that, I just feel like that is,

• 1:47:41David Sims?

  I know that this is Marty being like, I'll make you a programmer. It's just so crazy.

• 1:47:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:47:46David Sims?

  That he's like, here's some ideas I have, though, and Universal's like, thumbs up. You know what I mean? Like, that's, I guess I have to applaud him for that, where he's really finding like frightening, unsettling new angles on this story.

• 1:47:58Griffin Newman?

  That's what I love about this movie.

• 1:47:59David Sims?

  But keeping it in a blockbuster-y package.

• 1:48:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, cause the scene is just so thoroughly strange that even when it's deeply upsetting, it is compelling to watch. He also is like very reserved in this scene for how bizarre the behavior is.

• 1:48:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:14Griffin Newman?

  He stops doing all of his camera tricks.

• 1:48:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:48:17Griffin Newman?

  And it becomes like just very clean coverage.

• 1:48:19Speaker 02

  He isn't filming it like a sex scene. He's filming it like, uh, like, can you believe this is happening?

• 1:48:24Griffin Newman?

  It's anthropological and he slows everything way down. The movie's been moving so fast. The scene goes on for so long. Because I think he knows in order to sell this to an audience.

• 1:48:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:48:35Griffin Newman?

  It has to be really, really gradual, brick by brick.

• 1:48:38Speaker 02

  And you have to watch it all play out on her face while she thinks about what she's gonna do or how, what she's gonna say and then decides and, oh, she's so like, just so vulnerable emotionally.

• 1:48:49Griffin Newman?

  It's incredible. And you have to give her the space to be able to go through what you're saying, every one of those emotions of when she feels comforted, when she feels seen, when she feels scared, when she feels attracted, when she feels depressed, like all of it.

• 1:49:03Speaker 02

  Ugh.

• 1:49:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:04David Sims?

  At this point, uh, you have to, you have to do it. You have to pull the trigger on the, the pipe gang.

• 1:49:10Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49:10David Sims?

  The lead pipe guys.

• 1:49:11Griffin Newman?

  There's no other choice.

• 1:49:12David Sims?

  I just love the premise of like, look, I know four guys will be in my.

• 1:49:16Griffin Newman?

  And Joe Don Baker's like.

• 1:49:17David Sims?

  You make a call.

• 1:49:18Griffin Newman?

  I recommend four.

• 1:49:19Speaker 02

  I'm gonna hide.

• 1:49:20Griffin Newman?

  I recommend the full four.

• 1:49:21Speaker 02

  Can I hide behind a dumpster and watch?

• 1:49:23Griffin Newman?

  I'd love to watch. I want to get my money's worth.

• 1:49:25David Sims?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:49:27Speaker 02

  Really, I did think really interesting, though, is that scene right before that where he asks, uh, Juliette Lewis, did he touch you? And then they freaked and the way she's like, get out of here to him is really.

• 1:49:37David Sims?

  She's so.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  Feral.

• 1:49:39David Sims?

  Good.

• 1:49:40Griffin Newman?

  Who beats her this year for best actress, best supporting actress?

• 1:49:43David Sims?

  Um, great question. I know. She'd obviously, she's already in like, uh, National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, right? Was that her breakout, I guess? Yeah, Mercedes Rule for the Fisher King.

• 1:49:54Griffin Newman?

  Which is sort of a weird win.

• 1:49:55David Sims?

  A weird win. I, you know, a performance I, I, I think, you know, works.

• 1:50:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:00David Sims?

  But you watch it now and you're like, this won best supporting actress? Like, why? And obviously she was a name, Mercedes Rule, and she was liked.

• 1:50:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:50:10David Sims?

  She did a thing.

• 1:50:11Griffin Newman?

  She had built a good body of work over a couple of years leading up to that. Yeah.

• 1:50:14David Sims?

  I think she might be kind of the worst of the five nominated and it's sort of a weird five.

• 1:50:18Griffin Newman?

  I also would have nominated Amanda Plummer over her for that same movie.

• 1:50:22Speaker 02

  That's the performance.

• 1:50:22Griffin Newman?

  Great in that movie.

• 1:50:23David Sims?

  She's great in that movie and I guess she was just newer and like, right, less, you know, but like. I guess Juliette Lewis wasn't gonna win because she was young, right?

• 1:50:32Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:50:32David Sims?

  Like, I don't know.

• 1:50:33Griffin Newman?

  But who are the other three?

• 1:50:35David Sims?

  Diane Ladd in Rambling Rose. You know, obviously, rear nomination and she's playing Laura Dern's mom, but she's great. Kate Nelligan in Prince of Tides, a movie we've discussed, a good performance.

• 1:50:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:47David Sims?

  But a nom.

• 1:50:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:50:49David Sims?

  And then Jessica Tandy in Fried Green Tomatoes, who had just won an Oscar.

• 1:50:52Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:50:52David Sims?

  Probably wasn't gonna win again.

• 1:50:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's old in that movie. She's like, oh.

• 1:50:57David Sims?

  Wait, keep going.

• 1:50:58Griffin Newman?

  That was her one move she had.

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  I'm so old.

• 1:51:01David Sims?

  But yeah, Mercedes Rule won the Golden Globe as well. The only difference there is that Nicole Kidman gets nominated for Billy Bathgate instead of Kate Nelligan.

• 1:51:13Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:51:13David Sims?

  Yeah. I don't, you know, I don't know. Like, she's great. I don't know. I mean, like, I think it's a good performance. Who do I have?

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  Pipe Gang. I nominate Pipe Gang.

• 1:51:23Griffin Newman?

  Best Supporting Pipe Gang.

• 1:51:26David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, I have, so wait, it's 91?

• 1:51:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. 92 ceremony for 91 films?

• 1:51:33David Sims?

  Jane Harx, her life is sweet. Great win by me.

• 1:51:36Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 1:51:37Griffin Newman?

  And who are your other four?

• 1:51:37David Sims?

  Judy Davis in Naked Lunch, Alva Rogers in Daughter of the Dust, Christina Ricci in The Addams Family, and Juliette Lewis in Cape Fear.

• 1:51:44Griffin Newman?

  So do you nominate Christina Ricci for both Addams Family movies?

• 1:51:46David Sims?

  I nominated her supporting for the first one and lead for the second.

• 1:51:49Griffin Newman?

  This is where David becomes just a big brain genius.

• 1:51:53Speaker 02

  I'm for it.

• 1:51:54David Sims?

  She becomes a lead in the second.

• 1:51:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:51:56Griffin Newman?

  I think that's a fair.

• 1:51:57David Sims?

  In the first one, she's very much supporting.

• 1:51:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:51:59David Sims?

  But, but, but she comes in and she reigns threes in the first one. I mean, she's like, it's crazy.

• 1:52:05Griffin Newman?

  She gets buckets.

• 1:52:06David Sims?

  I mean, like Christina Ricci and Addams Family Values is one of those things where you're like, I guess they found the real Wednesday Addams.

• 1:52:11Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:52:11David Sims?

  You know, even though like, that's a cartoon character. You're like, there, there must just be a real one and that's who it is.

• 1:52:16Griffin Newman?

  It's one of those things for me, it's, it's like, like Tobey Maguire will always be my Spider-Man. The way the people of a certain generation are fixated on whoever was James Bond when they were a kid.

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:52:26Griffin Newman?

  Where I'm just like, no disrespect to Jenna Ortega, but there was one Wednesday Addams.

• 1:52:29Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:52:29Griffin Newman?

  We found her in the 90s.

• 1:52:31David Sims?

  I'll admit, I'm not, I still haven't checked in with Wednesday.

• 1:52:34Griffin Newman?

  Me neither.

• 1:52:34David Sims?

  Yeah. Uh, yeah, the Critics Awards went to Jane Addams, I'm sorry, Judy Davis won. It's the year where she has Naked Lunch and Barton Fink.

• 1:52:42Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:52:43David Sims?

  So that's kind of fun.

• 1:52:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:44Griffin Newman?

  Rooted the Oscars to not nominate her for either.

• 1:52:47David Sims?

  Well, they were rude to her.

• 1:52:48Griffin Newman?

  They were rude to her.

• 1:52:49David Sims?

  Oscars were mean to Judy Davis.

• 1:52:50Griffin Newman?

  And she's famously rude to everybody.

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  I know, I'm saying.

• 1:52:52David Sims?

  Bit of a, bit of a handful.

• 1:52:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:57David Sims?

  Anyway, but Juliette Lewis is great. The Pipe Gang is not.

• 1:53:00Griffin Newman?

  They fail.

• 1:53:01David Sims?

  They don't do a good job at all.

• 1:53:02Speaker 03

  They do a terrible job.

• 1:53:03David Sims?

  Although I think you can't get Katie.

• 1:53:05Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:53:05David Sims?

  Like, he's unstoppable. I think if someone shot him in the face with a shotgun, he wouldn't die. Like, that's the point of Max Katie.

• 1:53:11Griffin Newman?

  I like this movie making him supernatural.

• 1:53:12David Sims?

  Exactly. Like, it's like, I mean, they set him on fire at the end and it doesn't kill him.

• 1:53:16Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:53:17David Sims?

  Does make him look a little fucked up.

• 1:53:19Griffin Newman?

  But it feels like he is a manifestation of guilt.

• 1:53:21David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:53:22Griffin Newman?

  That is just compounded for over a decade.

• 1:53:23David Sims?

  Or an avenging devil, right?

• 1:53:25Speaker 02

  He's like, yeah, he's the devil.

• 1:53:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:53:27David Sims?

  Yeah, so that rocks.

• 1:53:30Griffin Newman?

  It rocks that he's the devil.

• 1:53:32David Sims?

  Yeah, that he's the devil. Uh, so yeah, um, what happens after, I mean, that, then, and then it's him getting Sam on the tape recorder.

• 1:53:39Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:53:40David Sims?

  You know, being, being, being cleverer than him.

• 1:53:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:53:43David Sims?

  Do you like the tape recorder move?

• 1:53:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I do. In general?

• 1:53:46David Sims?

  Yeah, in general. Like, that's a classic movie thing.

• 1:53:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:53:49David Sims?

  It's like the guy walks away and the other guy goes like, I recorded it.

• 1:53:52Griffin Newman?

  I like it best when it's a bunny cop and the tape recorder is a carrot pen.

• 1:53:57David Sims?

  Of course.

• 1:53:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's good.

• 1:53:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:53:59David Sims?

  Did two bring that back? It did. The carrot pen was like a big part of two.

• 1:54:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, well, because they gotta keep selling that merch.

• 1:54:05David Sims?

  I guess. Do I need to buy a carrot pen?

• 1:54:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, your daughter doesn't have a carrot pen? What's she doing?

• 1:54:11David Sims?

  Dude, she put on her Princess Peach costume.

• 1:54:13Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh. You mentioned this in another episode.

• 1:54:15David Sims?

  Oh, did I? Okay, yeah. She started, she just, it.

• 1:54:18Griffin Newman?

  Her reign has begun.

• 1:54:19David Sims?

  It was crazy.

• 1:54:20Griffin Newman?

  That's gonna be for Halloween?

• 1:54:21David Sims?

  Yeah. The boys are gonna be Mario and Luigi.

• 1:54:23Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 1:54:24David Sims?

  I mean, that, that's a layup.

• 1:54:26Griffin Newman?

  That's crazy.

• 1:54:26David Sims?

  That was a layup.

• 1:54:27Griffin Newman?

  Do you have like 10 years of twin costumes planned?

• 1:54:30David Sims?

  No, I, no, it's, last year they were Bert and Ernie.

• 1:54:33Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:54:33David Sims?

  Right? Like, so every year we're just, but there's a lot of pairs.

• 1:54:36Griffin Newman?

  Next year, they'll be the Menendez Brothers.

• 1:54:39David Sims?

  In, in the, uh, the, the basketball card that you can see them in. You know about that?

• 1:54:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:54:44David Sims?

  Is it?

• 1:54:44Speaker 02

  They're in the background of a basketball?

• 1:54:46Griffin Newman?

  You'll build a big frame around them?

• 1:54:48David Sims?

  It's, it's either, it's like, uh, Mark Jackson. Yeah, you're like, there's a, a Mark Jackson basketball card where you can see them sitting courtside.

• 1:54:54Speaker 02

  That's so funny.

• 1:54:55David Sims?

  And I think it's after they did the crime.

• 1:54:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:58David Sims?

  It's so crazy.

• 1:54:59Speaker 02

  Well, they had like a months of spending money.

• 1:55:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:03David Sims?

  Yeah, well, they got to see the fucking Knicks, the 91 Knicks. Yeah, or whatever they were, 90 Knicks. Um, yeah, what else happens in Cape Fear?

• 1:55:11Speaker 02

  They go on the houseboat.

• 1:55:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's like, we need to trick him into thinking that we're going on vacation. Or go on vacation.

• 1:55:17David Sims?

  I was about to say, might as well just go on vacation at that point, have fun. Well, the, for, no, but there's, first there's the, um, where he kills the housekeeper.

• 1:55:24Griffin Newman?

  All right.

• 1:55:25David Sims?

  Yeah, first it's the, right, that they.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  Who has the same haircut as him?

• 1:55:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's all been set up for that moment, for him to be able to dress up as her.

• 1:55:32David Sims?

  Those are just the moments where I'm like, is Scorsese trying to hint at something? And obviously, it's very Hitchcock.

• 1:55:37Griffin Newman?

  You're saying psycho sexually?

• 1:55:39David Sims?

  Yeah, like where he puts him in the dress.

• 1:55:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:41David Sims?

  The incredible thing that I fucking love of where Nolte wakes up and he's the camera negative.

• 1:55:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:55:47David Sims?

  Vision of him.

• 1:55:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:55:49David Sims?

  Like, that is so good and so simple.

• 1:55:51Griffin Newman?

  We should also call out the opening credits, which is, is this the final Saul and Elaine Bass, perhaps?

• 1:55:56David Sims?

  No, because they did Casino.

• 1:55:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 1:55:59Griffin Newman?

  But the opening credits in this are fucking unbelievable. Are so cool. The ripples of the water.

• 1:56:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:03Griffin Newman?

  And the negative images.

• 1:56:05David Sims?

  I mean, at this point, he's committed several crimes.

• 1:56:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:56:08David Sims?

  And I think they should call the police.

• 1:56:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes, the problem is the crimes are escalating at such a rate that the police might not get there in time.

• 1:56:15David Sims?

  But I mean, 911, in my opinion.

• 1:56:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:56:17David Sims?

  At this point, and I'm not saying the police solve everyone's problem. I'm not.

• 1:56:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:56:21David Sims?

  But I do think in this Max Cady killing people situation, you might not want to just like leave it to yourself.

• 1:56:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:28David Sims?

  But yes, obviously, the point, Nick Nolte says this when he call, he eventually does call his lawyer or the, you know, where he's like, I guess we're fugitives.

• 1:56:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:35David Sims?

  And so, well, you are a fugitive. Obviously, you're on the run.

• 1:56:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:38David Sims?

  But he's like, I'm like, unless you get Max Cady, I'm not going to stay still. Right? Like, that's his thinking.

• 1:56:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:56:45David Sims?

  What they don't know is that Max Cady can hold on to the underside of cars. Right?

• 1:56:49Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  In the, in the 60s, when they get a cop to go with them.

• 1:56:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:56:54Speaker 02

  To the boat.

• 1:56:55David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  Because, because Nolte's, because they don't have anything to hide at this point.

• 1:57:00Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:01Griffin Newman?

  The, Jordan Baker character is a composite of what is two different characters in the, in the 62 movie.

• 1:57:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:57:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:08David Sims?

  They just leave the bodies?

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:10David Sims?

  I think they do.

• 1:57:11Griffin Newman?

  They, they mention it. They're like, oh, I'm thinking about our house. They're like, at one point in the boat, Juliette Lewis is like, the housekeeper had a brother, has a brother, and she's like, we'll call him when we get off the boat, basically. Yeah, we'll have some bad news for him in a couple of days.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  It's so nasty when they're slipping around in the blood.

• 1:57:29David Sims?

  That's a true, like, this is the mess you made, right? Where he's just suddenly covered in the blood.

• 1:57:34Speaker 02

  It kind of seems like he steps in the blood on purpose, so he could slip and slide.

• 1:57:38Griffin Newman?

  It's also.

• 1:57:38Speaker 02

  What was his plan?

• 1:57:39Griffin Newman?

  It's another moment that Juliette Lewis plays beautifully.

• 1:57:42David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:57:42Griffin Newman?

  When she discovers Jordan Baker's body.

• 1:57:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:44Griffin Newman?

  And it's like a really.

• 1:57:45David Sims?

  Don't look, don't look.

• 1:57:46Griffin Newman?

  Realistic, like, shock. Like, you know, you realize how rarely you see shock actually depicted on screen.

• 1:57:52Speaker 03

  She sees the housekeeper.

• 1:57:53Griffin Newman?

  It's the house. Oh, it's the housekeeper. Okay, yes.

• 1:57:55David Sims?

  With the garroted neck.

• 1:57:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:57:58David Sims?

  Very nasty. It's a nasty movie.

• 1:58:00Griffin Newman?

  The Jessica Lange scene is also deeply upsetting, where she tries to offer herself to get Max Cady to focus on her instead of Juliette Lewis. Yeah.

• 1:58:08David Sims?

  That's not really his bag.

• 1:58:10Griffin Newman?

  It's not really his bag. Although.

• 1:58:11Speaker 02

  I like women with bras.

• 1:58:13David Sims?

  When he gets burnt, he's got kind of a Quado kind of look.

• 1:58:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:18Griffin Newman?

  He looks really rubbery.

• 1:58:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:20David Sims?

  I'm gonna guess there was some rubbery makeup on him, is why.

• 1:58:24Griffin Newman?

  I'm just saying, it's not realistic makeup at all.

• 1:58:27David Sims?

  No.

• 1:58:27Griffin Newman?

  He looks like a mutant.

• 1:58:28David Sims?

  I can only imagine sitting down to this movie in 1991.

• 1:58:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:32David Sims?

  And maybe you know the Mitchum backpack movie or whatever, right? Like, and you're like, oh, yeah, I know what I'm in for. And by the end, when he looks like that and he's going.

• 1:58:43Griffin Newman?

  Speaking in tongues.

• 1:58:44David Sims?

  What is going on?

• 1:58:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:58:46David Sims?

  What is this? Like, it's, it's great.

• 1:58:50Griffin Newman?

  But yet, like, audiences loved it.

• 1:58:52David Sims?

  They did.

• 1:58:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  It's a slasher film.

• 1:58:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:55David Sims?

  I mean, how many people die?

• 1:58:58Griffin Newman?

  Five?

• 1:58:59David Sims?

  Four? Three or four?

• 1:59:01Speaker 02

  Not so bad.

• 1:59:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, at the end of the day, I've seen worse.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  And you don't actually see Katie die. You just see him floating off. He might just be floating off to his next adventure.

• 1:59:09David Sims?

  It doesn't feel like he's dead.

• 1:59:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:59:11David Sims?

  I know the idea is he's gonna drown.

• 1:59:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:14David Sims?

  And it's over. But I'm like, no, he'll be back.

• 1:59:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:17David Sims?

  You can't kill him.

• 1:59:18Griffin Newman?

  Max Cady Legacy sequel coming soon?

• 1:59:20David Sims?

  Does Sinero have that in him anymore?

• 1:59:22Griffin Newman?

  No, I don't think so.

• 1:59:24David Sims?

  Like, I love him in Killers of the Flower Moon. I think it's one of his best performances in, like, many, many years. And that just sort of feels about as big as he can go these days. Like, he can't do this anymore.

• 1:59:35Griffin Newman?

  No, no. This takes a tremendous amount of energy and he's a man in his 80s.

• 1:59:40David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. So you know what? Robert Sinero, I'm sorry for calling you a coward.

• 1:59:45Griffin Newman?

  He's a sleepytime king.

• 1:59:46David Sims?

  Yeah, he's a bit of a sleepytime king.

• 1:59:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:48Speaker 02

  The houseboat explodes. Like, it's so fun, the way it breaks apart.

• 1:59:53David Sims?

  The miniature of it, or whatever it is. I mean, it's like a, a Maximature.

• 1:59:57Griffin Newman?

  A bigature is what Peter Jackson likes to call them.

• 1:59:59David Sims?

  Is that what he calls them?

• 2:00:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:00David Sims?

  Right? Because that's what it is, right? We're looking at like a pretty sizable thing.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  It's so satisfying to watch that thing come apart.

• 2:00:08David Sims?

  Ben, you've ever?

• 2:00:09Griffin Newman?

  You ever blow up a houseboat?

• 2:00:10David Sims?

  Blown up Silo.

• 2:00:11Speaker 03

  Ever blown up a houseboat?

• 2:00:13David Sims?

  No, no, no. Just looked at Silo being like, should I be a houseboat guy? Did I buy a houseboat?

• 2:00:17Speaker 03

  I spent time on a houseboat.

• 2:00:19Griffin Newman?

  Which one?

• 2:00:19Speaker 03

  What was that? In Florida, with my parents and my grandparents.

• 2:00:22Griffin Newman?

  Were you solving mysteries?

• 2:00:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, with Travis McGee.

• 2:00:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:27Speaker 03

  But yeah, I did that. I was pretty young, but it was fun.

• 2:00:31Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:00:31Speaker 03

  And I got to, um, go on a tube and hang off the, like, on the back.

• 2:00:36David Sims?

  Tubing, right, yeah.

• 2:00:37Speaker 03

  The rope.

• 2:00:37Griffin Newman?

  You'd fit in well on that, Malia. I can see it.

• 2:00:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. You can solve mysteries on a houseboat.

• 2:00:43Speaker 03

  I think if I were to, to go swamp, I would do a fan boat.

• 2:00:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:00:49David Sims?

  Well, sure, we can't live on a fan boat, can you?

• 2:00:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's a little tough.

• 2:00:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's how you explore the keys.

• 2:00:54David Sims?

  I just like the idea of like, if shit goes bad, I've always got the houseboat.

• 2:00:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:59David Sims?

  You know what I mean? I like it as a sort of a backup.

• 2:01:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:01:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:01David Sims?

  Right? Like, if like, if my life falls to shit, I'll just go to the, to the pier.

• 2:01:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:01:06David Sims?

  And we'll get on the houseboat and we'll float off somewhere new.

• 2:01:09Griffin Newman?

  I love houseboat characters.

• 2:01:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:11David Sims?

  It's always a good, it's just, it's almost lazy screenwriting where you're like, the deal with this guy is he owns a houseboat. And I'm like, I get it.

• 2:01:16Griffin Newman?

  Yep, and I'm on board.

• 2:01:18Speaker 03

  What's scary is, cause I did this in Florida at night, the gators bark. So you can hear them and it's just, it really disturbed me.

• 2:01:31David Sims?

  They're one of those things where you're just like, you're from the past. You don't belong now.

• 2:01:35Griffin Newman?

  Gators.

• 2:01:36David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:37David Sims?

  So one of them are the bronze.

• 2:01:37Griffin Newman?

  Fucking dinosaurs.

• 2:01:38David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. What are you doing here? Like, what's, what's going on?

• 2:01:41Griffin Newman?

  Go back, go back.

• 2:01:42David Sims?

  Yeah, just.

• 2:01:43Griffin Newman?

  Get your ass back to prehistoric times.

• 2:01:45David Sims?

  You know, in England, there's the narrow boats.

• 2:01:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:01:48David Sims?

  Uh, which are built for canals and people live on them.

• 2:01:51Speaker 02

  Ooh, that looks cool.

• 2:01:51David Sims?

  And they're super cool. We used to, yeah.

• 2:01:53Griffin Newman?

  Um, I love that the movie ends on Julia Lewis.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 2:01:56Griffin Newman?

  I love that it, it refocuses to be basically her lasting trauma. And even though she's speaking about it with a certain level of maturity, but just her narration starts with like, we never talked about that ever again.

• 2:02:08Speaker 02

  And then it goes in, going into the photo negative her.

• 2:02:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love that.

• 2:02:12Griffin Newman?

  And then just speaking to the brokenness of this family. Yeah.

• 2:02:15David Sims?

  Um, do we like the little mock trial that he does? At that point, things have gotten pretty chaotic.

• 2:02:20Speaker 02

  I feel like he's proving his own, his own prosecution case by being like, I'm gonna bind this one.

• 2:02:27David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:28Speaker 02

  Just to get you. But yeah, it's cool.

• 2:02:30David Sims?

  Uh, and do we like him speaking in tongues?

• 2:02:33Griffin Newman?

  I do. I love it.

• 2:02:33David Sims?

  That I like. And then singing the hymn, "On Jordan's stormy banks I stand" is the hymn.

• 2:02:39Griffin Newman?

  This is De Niro's last Oscar nomination until Silver Linings Playbook, right?

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:02:43Griffin Newman?

  He basically has a 20 year gap.

• 2:02:45David Sims?

  That's so crazy.

• 2:02:46Griffin Newman?

  Isn't that wild?

• 2:02:47David Sims?

  I, I mean, I know that, that there was a long gap.

• 2:02:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:50David Sims?

  Triple checking.

• 2:02:50Griffin Newman?

  I think that's right, though.

• 2:02:51David Sims?

  Yeah, it is. Yeah. Because basically it becomes kind of like stuff like Casino or whatever other like good movies. He's in Heat, you know, Jackie Brown. Like the Oscars, I think at that point, we're kind of like, yeah, well, you're fine.

• 2:03:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:04David Sims?

  Like, we don't need to bother. It's sort of what they're doing with Tom Hanks now.

• 2:03:06Griffin Newman?

  Exactly the same. Yeah.

• 2:03:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm watching the end. This looked like it was fucking miserable to film this last part.

• 2:03:13Griffin Newman?

  Rain tank and everything.

• 2:03:14Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 2:03:15David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:03:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:16David Sims?

  Um, this film came out November 15th, 1991. Uh, made $10 million opening weekend. Uh, expanded it and took another 10, ended at 80 mil against a budget of 35 worldwide, 182, it easily the most scores he's ever made.

• 2:03:33Griffin Newman?

  They could.

• 2:03:34David Sims?

  Uh, Ebert is kind of like, is this a good omen for him to be doing this kind of stuff?

• 2:03:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. Everyone's sort of pocket watching him.

• 2:03:42David Sims?

  But Vincent Cambe is like, yeah, he's having fun.

• 2:03:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:45David Sims?

  Um, but you know.

• 2:03:47Griffin Newman?

  Is this the best use of time for our best film?

• 2:03:49David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:03:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:50David Sims?

  Um, the, yeah, it's November 1st, 1991, Griffin.

• 2:03:54Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:03:54David Sims?

  It's number one at the box office. Number two is a comedy.

• 2:03:59Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:04:00David Sims?

  From a comedy auteur.

• 2:04:02Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:04:02David Sims?

  Written, produced and directed by him.

• 2:04:04Griffin Newman?

  John Hughes.

• 2:04:05David Sims?

  It is John Hughes.

• 2:04:06Griffin Newman?

  In 1991.

• 2:04:08David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:04:08Griffin Newman?

  It's not Curly Sue.

• 2:04:10David Sims?

  It is Curly Sue.

• 2:04:11Griffin Newman?

  His final film as a director.

• 2:04:12David Sims?

  Look out, America. The world's smallest con artist is in town.

• 2:04:17Griffin Newman?

  His real run was so quick.

• 2:04:19David Sims?

  Yeah, it's his last film. You're right. I mean, obviously he wrote, uh.

• 2:04:22Griffin Newman?

  101 Dalmatians and Flubber and Beethoven.

• 2:04:25David Sims?

  And two and all.

• 2:04:25Griffin Newman?

  Baby Stay Out. Yeah.

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  Curly Sue's not good.

• 2:04:28David Sims?

  Never seen.

• 2:04:29Griffin Newman?

  No, it's not good.

• 2:04:30David Sims?

  That's a Jim Belushi, is it?

• 2:04:31Griffin Newman?

  It's a Jimbo.

• 2:04:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:33David Sims?

  But it's a little girl?

• 2:04:34Speaker 02

  Little girl with real, I'll do anything girl energy, I would say.

• 2:04:38Griffin Newman?

  Perfectly put. Yes, absolutely. Yes.

• 2:04:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:04:42David Sims?

  Yeah, it's interesting because if we do Hughes.

• 2:04:44Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:04:45David Sims?

  I would say this is the only one you never hear anyone really speaking up for. Pretty much every, I mean, she's having a baby is kind of forgotten, but like, it's not bad.

• 2:04:53Griffin Newman?

  No, it's not bad at all. Bacon.

• 2:04:55David Sims?

  Bacon?

• 2:04:56Griffin Newman?

  Bacon.

• 2:04:57Speaker 03

  Sizzle.

• 2:04:59David Sims?

  Um, yeah, number two is Curly Sue. Uh, is, why did he start making movies?

• 2:05:03Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he hated Hollywood and by all accounts, he also got very scared by the death of John Candy.

• 2:05:09David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 2:05:10Griffin Newman?

  Who he related to very strongly, who he felt a real kinship with and felt like Hollywood had kind of, uh, drained him.

• 2:05:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:05:16Speaker 02

  Wanted to go back to Chicago, basically.

• 2:05:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:18David Sims?

  He loves Chicago.

• 2:05:19Griffin Newman?

  He, he bought a big plot of land and he raised his kids away from Hollywood and he was like, I can just fart out like Flubber.

• 2:05:26David Sims?

  Garbage.

• 2:05:27Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:05:27David Sims?

  Well, wait a second. If you can fart out Flubber, we need to call the nation scientists.

• 2:05:32Griffin Newman?

  But that's the thing. He would like every couple of years be like, what is Disney trying to make? Like live action 101 Dalmatians. And he was like, I'll write it under the name Edmund Dantes and they'll pay me $2 million.

• 2:05:43David Sims?

  Edmund Dantes, of course, the name of what is kind of Monte Cristo character.

• 2:05:46Griffin Newman?

  And I'll just stay away from Hollywood again.

• 2:05:48Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:05:49David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, number three at the box office is a romantic comedy Christmas film. I've never seen it.

• 2:05:56Griffin Newman?

  Christmas film.

• 2:05:57David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:05:58Griffin Newman?

  In 1991.

• 2:05:59David Sims?

  Thor of Birch is in it.

• 2:06:00Griffin Newman?

  Thor of Birch is in it. As a little girl, it's romantic comedy Christmas.

• 2:06:04David Sims?

  I've never heard of it. It has one of those titles that's just like a song.

• 2:06:08Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Sleigh Bells.

• 2:06:09David Sims?

  All I Want for Christmas.

• 2:06:11Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Who are the leads?

• 2:06:13David Sims?

  Of course, Lauren Bacall is in this film.

• 2:06:17Griffin Newman?

  Is the romantic lead or who?

• 2:06:19David Sims?

  No, it's like Harley Jane Kozak.

• 2:06:21Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:06:22David Sims?

  Jamie Sheridan.

• 2:06:24Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:06:24David Sims?

  I don't know. It's about siblings.

• 2:06:26Griffin Newman?

  Jamie Sheridan's a good actor.

• 2:06:27David Sims?

  Sure. It's about siblings who in launch a scheme involving their parents and their grandmother, I assume, uh, yeah, Lauren, Lauren Bacall's the grandmother, to get what they most want for Christmas. Oh, is she meets Santa Claus and says, I want my divorced parents to get back together.

• 2:06:40Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Yeah. The poster is them holding Santa Claus upside down. Yeah. Okay.

• 2:06:45David Sims?

  Uh.

• 2:06:45Griffin Newman?

  Leslie Nielsen.

• 2:06:46David Sims?

  Leslie Nielsen plays Santa Claus.

• 2:06:48Griffin Newman?

  Actually, I should watch this.

• 2:06:49David Sims?

  Yeah, actually you're gonna watch it right.

• 2:06:50Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:06:50David Sims?

  Number four at the box office is a pretty good, pretty underrated horror movie, uh, from one of the masters.

• 2:06:57Griffin Newman?

  Is it a Wes Craven?

• 2:06:58David Sims?

  It is.

• 2:07:00Griffin Newman?

  In 1991. Is it Shocker?

• 2:07:02David Sims?

  No.

• 2:07:03Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:07:04David Sims?

  No. I've actually never seen Shocker.

• 2:07:06Griffin Newman?

  Is it People Under the Stairs?

• 2:07:07David Sims?

  It's The People Under the Stairs.

• 2:07:08Griffin Newman?

  Quite a good film.

• 2:07:09David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:07:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:10David Sims?

  Uh, have you seen The People Under the Stairs?

• 2:07:12Speaker 02

  I did. Back in the day. I do like it quite a bit.

• 2:07:15Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a Jordan Peele favorite. Makes a lot of sense.

• 2:07:17David Sims?

  Yeah. Definitely Craven trying to like make a horror movie with some social importance.

• 2:07:21Griffin Newman?

  A social thriller. Yeah.

• 2:07:23David Sims?

  Uh, number five at the box office is another fucking little kid movie. This one is directed by a, an actor, uh, an actress, I should say.

• 2:07:33Griffin Newman?

  Okay, it's directed by an actress.

• 2:07:34David Sims?

  It's her directorial debut.

• 2:07:36Griffin Newman?

  Is it Little Man Tate?

• 2:07:37David Sims?

  Little Man Tate.

• 2:07:38Griffin Newman?

  Little Man Tate.

• 2:07:39David Sims?

  Where he's like a child prodigy.

• 2:07:41Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah. Jodie Foster.

• 2:07:42David Sims?

  And she's giving him a hug.

• 2:07:43Griffin Newman?

  She's hugging him hard in that poster.

• 2:07:45Speaker 02

  Diane Weist is the, is the woman who wants to put him in college, basically.

• 2:07:50David Sims?

  Oh.

• 2:07:51Speaker 02

  And Jodie Foster's like, no, we're working class. We don't do that. Me and my kid.

• 2:07:56David Sims?

  I'm enjoying this performance of Jodie Foster doing another accent.

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  No. No, you can't. And David's like, but we, we really have to. He's like, no.

• 2:08:07David Sims?

  Jodie Foster.

• 2:08:07Griffin Newman?

  That's a really good Diane Weist, by the way.

• 2:08:09David Sims?

  Yeah, Diane Weist.

• 2:08:10Griffin Newman?

  No one has a Weist.

• 2:08:11David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. That's impressive.

• 2:08:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:13David Sims?

  Yeah. Uh, Foster is just one of those people where you're like, well, what, what's a Foster? And then someone does it and you're like, oh, I see.

• 2:08:19Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:08:19David Sims?

  That's a Foster.

• 2:08:20Griffin Newman?

  Big time. That's a Foster. You know it when you see it.

• 2:08:23David Sims?

  Jennifer Saunders, I remember doing it in French and Saunders, uh, which is the British sketch show. She did a perfect Jodie Foster when they, in their Silence of the Lambs, uh, sketch. Um, that's number five. Number six is Billy Bathgate.

• 2:08:35Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:08:35David Sims?

  This is kind of a weird 10.

• 2:08:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:37David Sims?

  These are a lot of movies that are sort of prestige, but not working out. Billy Bathgate, obviously the, uh, Robert Denton adaptation of The E.L. Doctor now. I've never seen it. Robert Benton, sorry. And Dustin Hoffman is the star and.

• 2:08:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:50David Sims?

  Uh, young, hot Nicole Kidman.

• 2:08:52Griffin Newman?

  First kind of strike at a Nicole Kidman Oscar campaign.

• 2:08:55David Sims?

  Uh, major bomb, like very expensive movie that went nowhere. Um.

• 2:08:59Griffin Newman?

  Is Bruce Willis in that as well?

• 2:09:00David Sims?

  I mean, he, he was addicted to being in major bombs that were expensive and went nowhere in the early 90s. He sure is.

• 2:09:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:07David Sims?

  Hoffman, Kidman, Lauren Dean, Bruce Willis, young Stadly Tucci is Lucky Luciano.

• 2:09:14Griffin Newman?

  I've never seen it. I've just.

• 2:09:14David Sims?

  Uzemi's in it.

• 2:09:15Griffin Newman?

  Obsessed with that era where Bruce Willis would take sort of supporting parts in legit movies to try to get an Oscar break.

• 2:09:20David Sims?

  And it usually wouldn't work.

• 2:09:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:09:22David Sims?

  Because like Bonfire of the Manatees is that.

• 2:09:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes. What's the other one? In Country?

• 2:09:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:26Griffin Newman?

  Is that what it's called?

• 2:09:27David Sims?

  She's actually pretty good in that.

• 2:09:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:28David Sims?

  Uh, You Got Other People's Money, which I already shouted out, which also has Gregory Beck in it.

• 2:09:32Griffin Newman?

  Smoke and a Stogie.

• 2:09:32David Sims?

  Uh, Ben, Highlander 2: The Quickening.

• 2:09:35Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well.

• 2:09:37David Sims?

  Um.

• 2:09:38Speaker 03

  Am I a fan? Do I enjoy it?

• 2:09:40David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:09:41Speaker 03

  Can there only be one? Yes.

• 2:09:43Griffin Newman?

  Except there was a second film.

• 2:09:44Speaker 03

  Well, alright.

• 2:09:45David Sims?

  There was a second one in.

• 2:09:46Speaker 03

  But there can only be one Highlander.

• 2:09:47Griffin Newman?

  Sure, sure, sure, sure.

• 2:09:49David Sims?

  But, so, and Connery's back.

• 2:09:52Griffin Newman?

  Connery is back, I think, very briefly.

• 2:09:54David Sims?

  Uh-huh. And Michael, uh, Ironside and Virginia Madsen are aboard.

• 2:10:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:01David Sims?

  The big two.

• 2:10:03Speaker 03

  I feel like The Quickening is a really strong.

• 2:10:05David Sims?

  It's so strong. You're like, I don't know what that means, but I know that Highlander's in trouble. The quickening is happening.

• 2:10:13David Sims?

  This is gonna be a problem for him. Uh, number nine.

• 2:10:16Speaker 03

  And look forward to the Highlander commentary series coming soon.

• 2:10:20Griffin Newman?

  I think, no, I think we can honestly say when the new one comes out.

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  Comes out.

• 2:10:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, well, we'll do a commentary series. Yes, Cavill, but it's, uh.

• 2:10:26Speaker 03

  Did he get hurt or something during the filming of it?

• 2:10:29Griffin Newman?

  But I think it's, it's finished. I think it's finished filming. It's, uh, Chad Stileski.

• 2:10:33David Sims?

  Okay, I mean, I mean, I'm fine.

• 2:10:36Griffin Newman?

  And I believe Russell Crowe is maybe playing the Sean Connery part.

• 2:10:40Speaker 03

  Russell Crowe is playing the mentor guy?

• 2:10:45David Sims?

  I've seen that Crow is in like, good shape for it. He's been kinda showing off like, I got pretty tanked for this.

• 2:10:50Griffin Newman?

  You guys keep sharing photos of him at the gym with his son.

• 2:10:53David Sims?

  Yeah, like, he's been, he's been sharing a lot of photos. He's kinda like Crow, you know? Cause Crow, you know, he, the COVID peak of the car, the movie where he's in the car yelling.

• 2:11:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:03David Sims?

  Yeah. Unhinged?

• 2:11:04Griffin Newman?

  Unhinged.

• 2:11:04David Sims?

  That is Crow, I feel like, at his heaviest. He got very big there. And now he's been kinda like, getting more back to kinda like, you know, I'm still a big guy, but I'm a little, like, more in shape. But Unhinged has one of the greatest clips. People share it all the time. Where he's just like, "I don't think you even know what you're talk- I'm gonna fucking kill you." You know, where he's, does no one know what I'm talking about?

• 2:11:24Griffin Newman?

  No, what you're talking about, yeah.

• 2:11:25David Sims?

  Did you see Unhinged, Eva?

• 2:11:26Speaker 02

  I did not see it.

• 2:11:27David Sims?

  Alright, well, check it out.

• 2:11:28Griffin Newman?

  I've never seen, but I've seen the clip.

• 2:11:29David Sims?

  It was on like, 40,000 screens in the middle of COVID. Uh, number nine at the box office is a movie called Strictly Business.

• 2:11:35Griffin Newman?

  No idea what that is.

• 2:11:35David Sims?

  This is a, ah, an African-American film, uh, with a young Halle Berry.

• 2:11:39Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:11:40David Sims?

  Uh, Tommy Davidson, Joseph C. Phillips, never seen this movie. Uh, it's literally like, you know, just like, a male clerk's trying to hook up, uh, with a girl at a club.

• 2:11:50Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:11:51David Sims?

  You know, and hijinks ensue, or whatever.

• 2:11:53Griffin Newman?

  Love it.

• 2:11:55David Sims?

  Never seen. Kevin Hook's film. Uh, number 10 is Frankie and Johnny. Another sort of awardsy, it's Pacino.

• 2:12:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:12:04David Sims?

  Pacino and Pfeiffer. Oh, but like, another awardsy movie that doesn't work. Gary Marshall directed it. Uh, it got like, you know, like, Pfeiffer got like, a globe numb, you know, whatever. But like, all this stuff's just not working.

• 2:12:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Kate Fear is ready to run the table for the next couple of weeks.

• 2:12:20David Sims?

  Silence of the Lambs is, having come out almost a year ago.

• 2:12:23Griffin Newman?

  No, I just mean at the box office.

• 2:12:24David Sims?

  I know, I know. But like, it's just funny that like, all these Oscar-y movies are failing and like, by the end of the year, people are like, "I guess we just go for Silence of the Lambs."

• 2:12:31Griffin Newman?

  That was just the best thing I've seen, yes.

• 2:12:33David Sims?

  "That was so good."

• 2:12:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:34David Sims?

  And you know what? That and Kate Fear being hits in the same year, it was a lurid time in American cinema.

• 2:12:40Griffin Newman?

  Something dark was happening.

• 2:12:41David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:42Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 2:12:43David Sims?

  Yeah, I think it's good.

• 2:12:44Griffin Newman?

  Eva, thank you for being here.

• 2:12:45Speaker 02

  Guys, thank you so much for having me to talk about Kate Fear. What a delight.

• 2:12:49Griffin Newman?

  You're the best.

• 2:12:50Speaker 02

  You guys are the best.

• 2:12:51Griffin Newman?

  Um, Margos's Got Money troubles.

• 2:12:54Speaker 02

  On Apple TV.

• 2:12:56David Sims?

  That's-

• 2:12:56Speaker 02

  Check it out.

• 2:12:57David Sims?

  Gonna be a season two? Is that allowed?

• 2:12:59Speaker 02

  We're working on season two right now. Um, yes.

• 2:13:02David Sims?

  So, how are Money troubles?

• 2:13:03Speaker 02

  Um, guys, more money, more troubles.

• 2:13:06Griffin Newman?

  More money, more trouble. That's, that's what I've always heard.

• 2:13:09Speaker 02

  But, uh, yeah, thank you so much for having me. Oh, you know what? I'm also gonna plug, cause my husband made Party Down.

• 2:13:14Griffin Newman?

  The best.

• 2:13:14Speaker 02

  And it is on Netflix now, including the third season, which was difficult to watch. Uh, you had to have stars, and now you can watch it on Netflix.

• 2:13:21Griffin Newman?

  Incredible season. It is one of the few comedy shows to return after a long absence and not miss a beat, in my opinion.

• 2:13:27David Sims?

  It was so good.

• 2:13:28Griffin Newman?

  It was up to the standards of the first two seasons. It's one of my favorite shows ever.

• 2:13:31Speaker 02

  Oh, well, check it out. Um, that's what, that's my plug.

• 2:13:34Griffin Newman?

  Great plug.

• 2:13:34David Sims?

  Great plug.

• 2:13:35Griffin Newman?

  Um, thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Next week is Casino?

• 2:13:41David Sims?

  Next week is?

• 2:13:43Griffin Newman?

  The Age of Innocence. It's The Age of Innocence. I'm having a hard time just because of how long this series is keeping the order. Yes. Uh, Age of Innocence with the great Libby Watson.

• 2:13:53Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 2:13:54Griffin Newman?

  On the show for the first time.

• 2:13:55David Sims?

  Yep, we love her.

• 2:13:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Um, so tune in for that over on Patreon, Ben?

• 2:14:00David Sims?

  Over on Patreon, we're still in the midst of our Resident Evil commentary series. We're nearing the end. We just recently released the final chapter, and, and a few days will be the- Welcoming. The welcoming to Raccoon City.

• 2:14:17Griffin Newman?

  Which is a lot of us talking about Zach Craigers 2026 movie. Because there's not a ton of interesting stuff happening on screen in Welcome to Raccoon City.

• 2:14:25David Sims?

  Apologies to that film.

• 2:14:27Griffin Newman?

  Um, but if you wanna hear us talk about it, both David's feelings on the movie and my experiences working on the movie.

• 2:14:33David Sims?

  And just the lack of raccoons throughout the franchise.

• 2:14:36Griffin Newman?

  Ben, that's a major gripe, yes.

• 2:14:38Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 2:14:39Griffin Newman?

  And as always.

• 2:14:39David Sims?

  Yes?

• 2:14:40Griffin Newman?

  No, we did it. We did it. And as always.

• 2:14:53Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas. And our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the great American novel. With additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ali Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 2:15:38Speaker 03

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.