Intolerable Cruelty with Katey Rich

We’ve been exposed. You’ve nailed our asses. Of course we’re going to defend this movie! 2004’s Intolerable Cruelty features George Clooney and Catherine Zeta-Jones at the height of their powers, yet failed to connect with contemporary audiences. Guest Katey Rich joins us as we attempt to understand why. Too mean? Too talky? A lack of period trappings? Maybe they were just blinded by George Clooney’s incredible teeth. We’re talking Clooney’s directorial efforts (bad), Richard Jenkins’ 2008 (immaculate), and the name “Rex Rexroth” (difficult to pronounce) in this week’s episode, so sign your Massey pre-nup and join us! Read David’s Interview with George Clooney https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/10/george-clooney-explains-how-suburbicon-happened/544397/ Play Cinematrix https://www.vulture.com/article/daily-movie-grid-trivia-game-cinematrix.html Check out the Prestige Junkie After Party https://theankler.com/p/new-prestige-junkie-after-party Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 04

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 04

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 04

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 04

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  Your husband had told me you were the most beautiful podcast he'd ever met. I didn't expect the most beautiful podcast I'd ever met.

• 1:46David Sims?

  It's a great line.

• 1:47Griffin Newman?

  It is. I don't have a good cloning.

• 1:49David Sims?

  Uh.

• 1:50Griffin Newman?

  A few do. He's one of the least impersonated movie stars of that size, I would say.

• 1:56David Sims?

  He's got a thing and someone could figure it out.

• 1:58Griffin Newman?

  People do it and you're like, this is, let's, let's get right into the deep end here. I believe you kind of can't be a great movie star without being someone that someone can impersonate. You need to be distinctive enough that there is an ability to impersonate you in a specific way.

• 2:16David Sims?

  Someone could definitely do Clooney.

• 2:18Griffin Newman?

  I've seen people do it, but very few.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  You need to have like a hook that someone can hang on to.

• 2:23David Sims?

  Fascinate me, but I can't, I can't, you know, how.

• 2:25Griffin Newman?

  You could do the head tilt.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  It's a quality of voice.

• 2:27Griffin Newman?

  He's very grovly in this.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29David Sims?

  Yeah, that.

• 2:31Griffin Newman?

  The down, but then in this, he's doing the Coens, the Coens get him work in his neck, unlike anyone else.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  And the teeth, obviously. I mean, that's a whole separate thing.

• 2:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:39David Sims?

  I think this is, yeah, I mean, I guess, what's your favorite Clooney Coens performance?

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:46David Sims?

  He's done four.

• 2:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:47Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:48David Sims?

  You know all four?

• 2:49Speaker 03

  Uh, Oh Brother, this one, Burn After Reading. I skipped one.

• 2:53David Sims?

  Tell Caesar.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you. Yeah.

• 2:55Griffin Newman?

  His Idiot trilogy, which is now four films.

• 2:57David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:57Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:58Griffin Newman?

  I, my default answer is Burn After Reading, which I think he's unreal good in.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:03Griffin Newman?

  When I'm watching this, I go, how could it be anything but this?

• 3:07Speaker 03

  He's unbelievable in this.

• 3:08Griffin Newman?

  And there's just so much on his shoulders.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:11Griffin Newman?

  Even more than Oh Brother, where it's like the three.

• 3:14David Sims?

  He's amazing in Oh Brother, but right.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  Well, Oh Brother has so much going on. Like, I didn't re-watch that one before this, but I did re-watch Burn After Reading. And Burn After Reading is like, is an ensemble way more than this is. Like, this is just like, really a two-hander, but really kind of a one-hander.

• 3:25Griffin Newman?

  It's really kind of a one-hander.

• 3:27David Sims?

  Yeah, he's, yeah, he's the best.

• 3:29Griffin Newman?

  He's unbelievable in this.

• 3:30David Sims?

  He's a nominee for me this year.

• 3:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:32David Sims?

  Yeah, it's an amazing performance.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  And this is the year after Ocean's Eleven?

• 3:36David Sims?

  Uh, two years after.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  And before Ocean's Twelve, which Catherine Zeta-Jones is of course in.

• 3:40Griffin Newman?

  This is a thing we've talked about in the past on this podcast that I found really interesting. I remember very distinctly Catherine Zeta-Jones wins Best Supporting Actress for Chicago in 2002.

• 3:52Speaker 03

  I do remember that.

• 3:52Griffin Newman?

  Her three immediate follow-up films are.

• 3:56Griffin Newman?

  Intolerable Cruelty, directed by the Coen Brothers.

• 3:58David Sims?

  Yep.

• 3:59Griffin Newman?

  Ocean's Twelve, directed by Steven Soderbergh, and The Terminal, directed by Steven Spielberg.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:04Griffin Newman?

  And upon the release of Ocean's Twelve, which I think is the third.

• 4:09David Sims?

  That's the last, I think. Uh, yeah.

• 4:11Griffin Newman?

  She fires all of her reps.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  I did not.

• 4:15David Sims?

  It's not just that, her career is over.

• 4:17Griffin Newman?

  Basically.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:18David Sims?

  No, no, no, not basically. You can draw a line.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Well, she's married to Michael Douglas at what point?

• 4:22David Sims?

  That doesn't matter. That's already happened.

• 4:24Griffin Newman?

  They're married in 99.

• 4:25David Sims?

  The follow-up to the run he just said, the immediate follow-up is Legend of Zorro, no reservations, death-defying acts, then two years later, The Rebound. It's over.

• 4:34Griffin Newman?

  Which sat on a shelf.

• 4:35David Sims?

  It's over.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  Was there not the sense, though, that she's like, I'm married to Michael Douglas and I got kids, I'm gonna just peace?

• 4:39Griffin Newman?

  There was part of that.

• 4:40David Sims?

  I think everyone was like, she, she's, stinks it up in all three of those movies. Sorry.

• 4:45Griffin Newman?

  That was sort of, I think, the perception at the time. It was a little bit what happened to Helen Hunt post-Oscar.

• 4:49David Sims?

  Yes, it was a take-her-Oscar-away run.

• 4:52Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 4:52David Sims?

  But it's also that she made movies with exclusively incredible filmmakers, movies that are basically, well, The Terminal's not good, but are basically all pretty good.

• 5:01Speaker 03

  But among the least regarded of all of their movies.

• 5:04David Sims?

  Yes. I mean, obviously, we all love Ocean's Twelve now, but at the time.

• 5:08Griffin Newman?

  Ocean's Twelve has now been reclaimed.

• 5:09David Sims?

  At the time, it was not well-revied.

• 5:10Griffin Newman?

  We're trying to start the drumbeat here for their intolerable cruelty.

• 5:14David Sims?

  Oh, oh, yeah.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Oh, I see. Yes, which has not happened, but may start today.

• 5:17Griffin Newman?

  And then Terminal, I feel like, is the furthest off, although some will defend it.

• 5:21David Sims?

  People stick off for it. I don't, I do think she's not one of the better parts of it, though. Like, you know.

• 5:25Griffin Newman?

  No, but that's a perfect example of that part sucks. It is basically designed to make the audience hate whoever's occupying that role.

• 5:34David Sims?

  Get away from me, I'm sick.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Do we think that Catherine Zeta-Jones' arrival is gonna happen after Naked Gun has that great joke about her, which is fresh as we are having this conversation.

• 5:42David Sims?

  Remind me of the joke?

• 5:43Speaker 03

  Uh, in my day, the only things that were electric were eels and Catherine Zeta-Jones's Chicago.

• 5:49David Sims?

  Which is a great show.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  It's so good.

• 5:50Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's talking about the electric guitar, the electric car, sorry. But I feel like he says three things. It might be guitar.

• 5:57Speaker 03

  Guitar eels.

• 5:58Griffin Newman?

  Eels. And then the third thing is so wordy. Part of the majesty of it is that they give Liam Neeson three sentences to say quickly and he goes,

• 6:07David Sims?

  Anytime.

• 6:07Griffin Newman?

  And Catherine Zeta-Jones' electrifying performance in 2002 film Chicago.

• 6:12David Sims?

  That's what, they do that joke so many times and it's always, always hits. Just Liam Neeson saying a long thing.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Well, the Buffy Tebow joke that comes right out of that.

• 6:21Griffin Newman?

  Getting too worked up about something.

• 6:24David Sims?

  Yes.

• 6:25Griffin Newman?

  From early 2000s pop culture that is still so relevant.

• 6:28Speaker 03

  Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl.

• 6:29Griffin Newman?

  Right. You're like, why is this guy so hung up on the pop culture from when he was 50?

• 6:35Griffin Newman?

  Like, it's part of what is so good about.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  Because he's ageless.

• 6:38David Sims?

  But I don't, look, I think that the Catherine Zeta-Jones comeback, in quotes, happened in that she is back and is on Netflix's hit show Wednesday and

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Well, then.

• 6:51David Sims?

  Did a national treasure show. She's around. There is no chance of a real comeback.

• 6:55Griffin Newman?

  There's the post-Oscar run. There's the run you just said that it's like a big drop off. Then she disappears for a couple of years. Then there's like the 2013 sort of attempted comeback.

• 7:04David Sims?

  She's in six movies in two years, in 2012 and 2013.

• 7:08Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's like Playing for Keeps, Rock of Ages, Side Effects. Uh, what's the other one I was about to say?

• 7:15David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 7:16Speaker 03

  I'm looking at this.

• 7:17Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Broken City?

• 7:18David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  What the hell is that? I'm looking at it.

• 7:19David Sims?

  It's a political thriller with, no, just one Hughes, I believe.

• 7:22Griffin Newman?

  It's all Hughes, Wahlberg and Crow.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Alan Hughes.

• 7:25David Sims?

  Yes.

• 7:26Griffin Newman?

  And then there are two more?

• 7:27David Sims?

  There's two more. One, you might remember just as a, you know, anonymous title, much like Playing for Keeps, Lay the Favorite.

• 7:35Griffin Newman?

  Oh, that's a Frears.

• 7:37David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 7:37Speaker 03

  Her character's name is Tulip?

• 7:39David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 7:40Griffin Newman?

  That's a movie that has like 10 giant movie stars in it and doesn't exist.

• 7:44Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 7:45Griffin Newman?

  Bruce Willis is in it, Vince Vaughn's in it.

• 7:47David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, yeah, giant. I mean, it's a lot of movie stars who are at the tail end or whatever. And then Red Two is the final. Now, the thing about what we're talking about here is that this is the third of the three movies, you know, The Intelligent of Cruelty, Terminal, Ocean 12, that we have covered. We have really put a magnifying glass on Catherine Zeta-Jones's post-Oscar bust.

• 8:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 8:15David Sims?

  You know, like, we haven't ever talked about great movies that she's been in, such as The Mask of Zorro, High Fidelity, Traffic, Chicago.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  America's Sweetheart, she just skipped right over that one, not on the lineup.

• 8:29David Sims?

  She stinks in that movie.

• 8:29Griffin Newman?

  A movie I rewatched recently, kind of like.

• 8:31David Sims?

  I would be interested to rewatch it. I do not remember her working in it.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  It almost works.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  The only good joke in that movie is Hank Azaria's Hank honk it the entire time.

• 8:40Griffin Newman?

  The whole supporting cast of that movie is really strong.

• 8:43David Sims?

  Walk-in Azariah, you know, right, the Tucci.

• 8:46Griffin Newman?

  You get a good touch of the Tucci in that?

• 8:47David Sims?

  Yep. But like, you know, all the, all the movies that made Catherine Zeta-Jones the star that she was.

• 8:53Griffin Newman?

  It's crazy where it's this, and we've talked about this, but this meteoric rise where it's basically like 1997, who the fuck is this?

• 9:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:00Griffin Newman?

  2002, an Oscar that almost feels like an overdue anointment.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Oh, at that point, yes.

• 9:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes, of just like, well, she's undeniably one of our greatest movie stars. And then just immediate drop off here, that run of 2013, we just called out. She has not been in a movie since then. She has done five different TV series.

• 9:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:20Griffin Newman?

  But she has not been in a feature film.

• 9:22David Sims?

  You're forgetting, of course, Dad's Army, the British.

• 9:25Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry.

• 9:26David Sims?

  Um, you know, homage, sort of revival.

• 9:30Griffin Newman?

  That was 2017?

• 9:31David Sims?

  2016.

• 9:31Griffin Newman?

  That is her actual last film, correct? Since then, she's done Disney Plus National Treasure series.

• 9:37David Sims?

  I will say, she has a film coming up.

• 9:39Griffin Newman?

  What is it?

• 9:40David Sims?

  She's in Kathy Yen's Birds of Prey follow-up, which is called The Gallerist.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 9:46David Sims?

  And has a stacked cast, Natalie Portman, Jenna Ortega, Sterling K. Brown, Charlie XCX.

• 9:51Griffin Newman?

  Interesting things about this.

• 9:52David Sims?

  I've heard Unreleaseable, but, or, or I've heard, I guess, like, why hasn't it been released?

• 9:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  You should read the plot description because it grabs you.

• 10:03David Sims?

  A gallerist conspires to sell a deceased man at Miami's Art Basel. That sounds kind of fun.

• 10:09Griffin Newman?

  I'm into it.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  Weekend at Bernie's meets the art world. Sounds good to me.

• 10:14Griffin Newman?

  She does feel like someone.

• 10:15David Sims?

  Movie, art world satire, that is tricky. Remember Velvet Buzzsaw?

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Never saw Velvet Buzzsaw.

• 10:20David Sims?

  You know, and if someone tries it every couple of years, it's like, it's tough to, you know, they're also silly to begin with. It's tough to satire them.

• 10:26Griffin Newman?

  I'm a fan of Cathy Anne.

• 10:27David Sims?

  Me too.

• 10:27Griffin Newman?

  I'm excited for this. I want to see it. It does feel like she is someone who is just like.

• 10:32David Sims?

  A little cursed.

• 10:33Griffin Newman?

  Well, but also.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  Cathy Anne or Catherine Zeta-Jones or both?

• 10:36Griffin Newman?

  Catherine Zeta-Jones, but also I'm just like, it feels like it's right there for the taking.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 10:41Griffin Newman?

  It feels like, you don't even have to go full substance.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:45Griffin Newman?

  The right movie, the right supporting part for Catherine Zeta-Jones, you look like a genius.

• 10:49Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 10:50Griffin Newman?

  And I, I thought she was incredibly good in Side Effects, where I remember seeing them in theaters and going like, this is it. And then that movie just makes no impact whatsoever.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  That's a Weird Soderbergh like wilderness.

• 11:00David Sims?

  I really like that movie.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  I liked it too.

• 11:02David Sims?

  I don't like her.

• 11:04Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 11:04David Sims?

  This is a real David's being mean to Catherine Zeta-Jones episode so far, which is weird because I think she works in intolerant cruelty. I don't think, I do think she's its weakest element a little bit.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  I would argue that's Geoffrey Rush, but we can get there.

• 11:19David Sims?

  Geoffrey Rush, he's in the, he's in two scenes.

• 11:22Griffin Newman?

  I like this take. I like, I just like coming in with this thought of the take.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  I didn't realize it was hot.

• 11:27David Sims?

  I just.

• 11:30David Sims?

  I remember even at the time, the whole, and I'm, they're here, look, I'm getting worked up about Catherine Zeta-Jones.

• 11:35Griffin Newman?

  Look, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 11:37David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 11:38Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby.

• 11:51Griffin Newman?

  Kershner was in Kentucky.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  Forget Kershner.

• 11:54David Sims?

  Forget Kershner.

• 11:55Griffin Newman?

  Forget Kershner.

• 11:56David Sims?

  Are you forgetting Kershner? It's the best line.

• 11:59Griffin Newman?

  Kershner was in Kentucky.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  Richard Jenkins shows up in this movie and you're just like, we are off to the races.

• 12:04David Sims?

  Richard Jenkins drops 80 atomic bomb, like, just face, like, just eyebrow twitches. And then Paul Adelstein hits like 40 threes.

• 12:13Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 12:14David Sims?

  Like, just crazy numbers.

• 12:16Griffin Newman?

  Jenkins, I think, has two, three scenes, and I'm just like, I want to know everything about this.

• 12:20David Sims?

  It feels like he's in the entire movie.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  It does feel like he's in the entire movie.

• 12:22David Sims?

  He might just be well placed.

• 12:24Griffin Newman?

  I think it's the two meetings in the courtroom. Yeah.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  He won't eat that croissant.

• 12:29Griffin Newman?

  He won't. Pastry.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Pastry, excuse me.

• 12:31Griffin Newman?

  Uh, this is a major on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen.

• 12:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 12:35Griffin Newman?

  Together and separately.

• 12:37David Sims?

  Ah.

• 12:37Griffin Newman?

  It is called Pod Country for Old Cast. Today, we're starting the drumbeat of The Intolerable Cruelty Reclamation, a movie I have found in my anecdotal conversations with people as we've been doing this series. Even the most ardent Cohen supporters I know in my life, by and large, are like, yeah, I saw that when it came out in theaters, it's bad, right? And have never rewatched it.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  More than Lady Killers? I always thought Lady Killers had... Okay, alright.

• 13:04Griffin Newman?

  More, more? I did a little defense.

• 13:07David Sims?

  Well, he tried, but I'm saying like...

• 13:08Griffin Newman?

  A little defense.

• 13:09David Sims?

  I, I agree with Griffin that, I know there are intolerable cruelty fans out there, because I'm one of them.

• 13:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:15David Sims?

  But we did kind of cast nets being like, so come on, who's the big defender out there ready to come on Blank Check Famous Podcast? Time 100.

• 13:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 13:23David Sims?

  Decade of Dreams.

• 13:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 13:25David Sims?

  Seth Rogen's on the show.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  You didn't say that then.

• 13:28David Sims?

  I said all of this.

• 13:29Griffin Newman?

  You said all of this.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  You didn't dangle Seth Rogen at the time.

• 13:31David Sims?

  I was walking on the top of 30 Rock, just blaring this from the top of my lung.

• 13:34Griffin Newman?

  He had an old timey director megaphone.

• 13:36David Sims?

  I couldn't really find anyone who was like, yes, intolerable cru... I want to defend it.

• 13:41Griffin Newman?

  Because we've been such big defenders for a while that we're like, there have to be others. And I just keep finding people who are like, saw it in theaters opening weekend, disappointed.

• 13:48David Sims?

  Didn't like, or...

• 13:49Griffin Newman?

  Have never considered rewatching.

• 13:51David Sims?

  Or I've heard from others like, oh. I mean, it's okay. You know, a little bit of that. Not so much what I expect and what I've always thought since I saw it in theaters, which is this rocks. Love it.

• 14:04Griffin Newman?

  Now, David, in order to complete this task, we had to look to the aforementioned Time 100 Greatest Podcasts of All Time list.

• 14:11David Sims?

  We had to shunt her from two other episodes she was booked on because we kept booking famous people.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  I think I was considered for three, actually. There were definitely three titles in the mix at some point. I wouldn't have done any of them, to be clear.

• 14:24Griffin Newman?

  You are overdue. We were like, we're getting Katie on somewhere in this series.

• 14:27David Sims?

  I'm gonna be, to be, in our defense, you were also kind of like, I'm coming to New York somewhere in like a three month window.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  Yes, I make it difficult. I was supposed to have come on for a whole previous series and then I had to go to Los Angeles instead, which is way less fun.

• 14:41David Sims?

  What are you supposed to come on for?

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, always. And you guys replaced me with Richard Lawson, which I accept.

• 14:47Griffin Newman?

  Listen, from one of the 100 greatest podcasts of all time.

• 14:50David Sims?

  And other podcasts.

• 14:51Griffin Newman?

  Fighting the war room, but also prestige junkie.

• 14:53David Sims?

  Prestige junkie and all of a sudden, great work at the Ancler.

• 14:56Griffin Newman?

  Katie Rich, who I'm overdue, but I'm gonna anoint you with a title now.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  Hmm, what we got?

• 15:03Griffin Newman?

  We always say that you were kind of the first Blank Check guest.

• 15:05David Sims?

  You kind of were. Emily Ishida was.

• 15:07Griffin Newman?

  This is the thing.

• 15:08David Sims?

  But she was on this weird sort of herky jerky.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Did she do like the early Shimon's before Success?

• 15:13David Sims?

  She talked about.

• 15:14Griffin Newman?

  We did a revisiting of Force Awakens.

• 15:16David Sims?

  Force Awakens, yeah. So like, it was basically, but it was the early run of me asking my friends and you had asked, the Star Wars show, you, I feel like, had asked more comedian friends, because it's like, we were more of a comedy show.

• 15:27Griffin Newman?

  Also, most of our trivia team.

• 15:28David Sims?

  Like, I wasn't gonna ask film critics that I admired and respected.

• 15:32Griffin Newman?

  We call Emily the mother of Blankies.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  Yes, which I think is a title she has earned, I want to be clear.

• 15:36Griffin Newman?

  She comes up with the term in the episode. In that episode, we're like, should we rename our show? You were the first guest when the show was officially Blank Check.

• 15:44David Sims?

  We were on the Sixth Sense episode, to be clear. And it was kind of the first episode the box office game got played.

• 15:48Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Why is it really?

• 15:50Griffin Newman?

  Because it's my favorite box office weekend.

• 15:51David Sims?

  I did it as a whim. I was like, oh, let's try to guess them.

• 15:54Griffin Newman?

  I called out how much I love that weekend. And it became the game. So I want to, I want to anoint you here in this decade of dreams.

• 16:03Griffin Newman?

  The auntie of blankies.

• 16:04Speaker 03

  Oh, God, what an honor.

• 16:06Griffin Newman?

  I'd love to be the auntie of blankies.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  That's true. I'll be sitting on a porch, just like this porch that is right here in the studio.

• 16:14David Sims?

  Sipping on a sweet tea.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, or half sweet, half lemonade, Arnold Palmer. You know, I could have brought some pimento cheese here. Y'all, come on, you have been talking for years, pre-pandemic, about doing a road trip and coming down. David, I realize you have a large cargo now.

• 16:30David Sims?

  But I love, I love North Carolina.

• 16:31Speaker 03

  We have a lot of toys in our house. Bring your children.

• 16:33Griffin Newman?

  Including some that I've sent.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 16:35David Sims?

  My kids aren't like, oh, yeah, all I need are some toys. Yeah, anyway, Karen.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  I do think Griffin was spiritually with us because we went to Pandora. We went to Animal Kingdom and saw the floating islands of Pandora in Florida. And I do think the banshees that you sent to our house were like with us along on the journey. And like I talked to you about going through the little boat ride that people think is boring, but I thought was beautiful. Anyway, you have helped encourage it.

• 16:57David Sims?

  A boat ride through Pandora.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Come down and see Fire and Ash with us.

• 16:59Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  We're gonna be there opening night, I'm sure.

• 17:01Griffin Newman?

  I like that idea.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Charlie went to the summer camp. Charlie, past and future guest, now nine years old, which I just feel like people listening need to know.

• 17:08David Sims?

  A sub-six-month-old baby.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  As a baby, and now is nine years old.

• 17:12Griffin Newman?

  For youngest.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  I hope he keeps it. But he went to summer camp and the week that the Fire and Ash trailer came out, and I picked him up. And while we were in the car before we'd gotten like more than two miles away, I was like, you gotta watch this. You gotta see the Fire and Ash trailer. And he's so hyped, we're ready, we'll be there.

• 17:25Griffin Newman?

  A few things in this horrible, broken world make me happier than how much Charlie loves Avatar.

• 17:31David Sims?

  You know what rocks about Fire and Ash, too?

• 17:33Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 17:33David Sims?

  Is like, you know, with Way of Water, just years of, yeah, but is he actually gonna make it? And yeah, and it kept getting delayed and all this. And then Avatar 3, he was like, yeah, it's gonna come out two years after.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  The best.

• 17:44David Sims?

  And like, like Clockwork, they were like, here's your trailer. This movie is ready. Like, this movie's coming.

• 17:49Speaker 04

  I feel like Ash doesn't get enough credit.

• 17:52David Sims?

  Everyone's talking Fire. We're talking about the Ash.

• 17:54Griffin Newman?

  With Fire and Ash.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:57Griffin Newman?

  I just wanted to say about Fire and Ash. I agree with you where you're like, okay, we're getting into like a rhythm here. Now these are gonna come out and then you look at the calendar and you're like, four is five years away.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  Is he gonna make them? Do you think he's gonna do it?

• 18:09David Sims?

  I don't think so.

• 18:10Griffin Newman?

  You don't think he's gonna make the other ones?

• 18:12David Sims?

  The way he's talking about, oh, now I really wanna like make you live inside of a nuclear explosion for this like Hiroshima movie.

• 18:19Griffin Newman?

  I wanna make you cry.

• 18:20David Sims?

  Like, he keeps being like, it's gonna be an IMAX. Maybe I'll make an even bigger IMAX that's even more horrible to witness.

• 18:26Griffin Newman?

  I will make you hurt. Basically, every James Cameron quote now is just him seeing the lyrics of her. Being like, I wanna punish the audience.

• 18:36David Sims?

  You know, George R.R. Martin is someone who clearly like hit a wall in his big creative process for his book. And he just, it's not like he got lazy. He just started doing other stuff, being like, well, I hope I figure that out one day, right? And maybe he will, maybe he won't. James Cameron, he made Av- he's not lazy.

• 18:52Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 18:53David Sims?

  But I, you get the sense from him a little bit of like, I just wanna take a break and then I'm gonna get back to them where you're like.

• 18:59Speaker 03

  But the man's what, 75 years old and a fox ticket? Okay.

• 19:02David Sims?

  He's not, and he's, and he's a fit man.

• 19:04Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure. He looks great.

• 19:05David Sims?

  I'm not worried about.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  But he could die in a submarine accident at any moment.

• 19:08David Sims?

  Well, that's true. Although he would tell you like, no fucking way am I dying in a submarine. I follow all the precautions.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  I'm smart, unlike all the other guys who die in submarines.

• 19:15Griffin Newman?

  I'm the best at staying alive in a submarine.

• 19:17David Sims?

  I mean, he's very good at it.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  This is true.

• 19:20Griffin Newman?

  Undefeated at this point.

• 19:21David Sims?

  I just, maybe he'll hand it off to somebody. I don't know. He's, he's intimated he could.

• 19:26Griffin Newman?

  That had always been my guess.

• 19:28David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Griffin Newman?

  And now he's saying, I don't wanna hand them off.

• 19:32David Sims?

  Right.

• 19:33Griffin Newman?

  Here's my new theory. He's always done this thing where after an Avatar, he's like, maybe I wanna make something else.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:39Griffin Newman?

  And then Disney announces a new record-breaking deal for him to fast-track the next Avatar.

• 19:45David Sims?

  And they built him like a space station this time, or you know, like they've always built him some new facility.

• 19:49Griffin Newman?

  But he did it with Cleopatra.

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 19:51Griffin Newman?

  After Way of Water, he was like, I'm gonna make this Hiroshima movie right away.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:55Griffin Newman?

  And then they were like, never mind Fire and Ash coming out two years on the clock.

• 19:59David Sims?

  Right.

• 19:59Griffin Newman?

  I also think he has most of the footage in the can.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  For four and five? You think so?

• 20:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 20:06David Sims?

  Most of?

• 20:07Speaker 03

  I thought two and three were together and then four and five were gonna be.

• 20:10Griffin Newman?

  But he's been doing more since then.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  I see. Well, he's got like the studio in New Zealand, right? He can just like throw Kate Winslet into the tank whenever he wants.

• 20:17David Sims?

  I want, I want.

• 20:18Griffin Newman?

  We want. I just wonder if he's sort of now like, I've captured most of it. Can I be doing post on avatars while making new movies?

• 20:28Speaker 03

  I see.

• 20:29Griffin Newman?

  Which feels like a tall task, but if anyone has the hubris to believe they could pull it off.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:34Griffin Newman?

  To do the sort of Schindler Jurassic.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  I was just gonna say, it's like Spielberg.

• 20:38Griffin Newman?

  I, I, that's my new theory on what he's getting at.

• 20:42David Sims?

  I'm all for it, and I'm all for the sort of like, these big directors hit a certain age, the Ridley Scott syndrome, and they're like, I wanna work more. Like, I feel.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  Scorsese is doing the same thing?

• 20:52David Sims?

  Well, let's not go crazy. I mean, Marty works.

• 20:54Speaker 03

  He's no Ridley Scott, but he knows.

• 20:56Griffin Newman?

  Slowing down now, but he had been cranking.

• 20:59David Sims?

  I think the other thing with Marty is, it's like, he can only work at a high budget and all this stuff. Because he needs to work pretty slow and have a lot of infrastructure around him. Whereas Ridley Scott's like, send in my team, you know, we'll make a fucking, you know. I can build a pyramid for you in an hour, or whatever it is he does.

• 21:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 21:20David Sims?

  Catherine Zeta Jones. Zeta, Zeta?

• 21:25Griffin Newman?

  That's an SNL 25 joke. Bill Murray, Nick the Lounge Singer.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  Welsh accent?

• 21:29Griffin Newman?

  Sings to Catherine Zeta Jones in the audience, and he goes.

• 21:32David Sims?

  You know, the Welsh accent is very sing-songy. I can't really do it.

• 21:35Griffin Newman?

  Catherine Zeta, Zeta, Zeta, Zeta. Is it Zeta or Zeta? And I always forget how she corrects him. I always think it's Zeta.

• 21:43David Sims?

  Catherine Zeta Jones, the great Catherine Zeta Jones, in a way, the great Catherine Zeta Jones.

• 21:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 21:48David Sims?

  I was raised on Catherine Zeta Jones, right? I saw Mask of Zorro when I was 12.

• 21:55Griffin Newman?

  Beyond that.

• 21:55David Sims?

  Bewitched by this woman.

• 21:56Griffin Newman?

  We, we have said this, the two trailers, she had two trailer moments that felt like they exploded the universe.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  The Entrapment trailer?

• 22:04David Sims?

  Entrapment.

• 22:04Griffin Newman?

  Entrapment, her going through the lasers.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:07Griffin Newman?

  And the end of the Zorro trailer, where he, her clothes fall off in a Z. And it felt like those two things, it was like Bill Clinton got, like, State of the Union. We all agree this is the sexiest woman on the planet.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  She's so beautiful.

• 22:22Griffin Newman?

  In a way that was codified for like, all children, you were like, I get it, you're telling me.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:27Griffin Newman?

  This is like, the height of like glamour and charisma. And then there was this narrative that like, Michael Douglas was like, I must meet that woman. Bring her to me.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  That's a decent Michael Douglas, actually.

• 22:40Griffin Newman?

  Thank you. This is CNN. And then it was, right, this constant comedy of like, she has to change his diapers.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 22:48Griffin Newman?

  She's married to the oldest man in the world.

• 22:50David Sims?

  Right. Meanwhile, he's like, I'm going to play Ant-Man 20 years from now, or whatever the fuck.

• 22:55Griffin Newman?

  Then she's in traffic and people were like, is she actually a good actress?

• 22:58David Sims?

  Traffic was the, right, was the, don't bullshit me, but yeah, she's pretty good. And then within a couple of years, she's won an Oscar.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 23:06David Sims?

  Okay.

• 23:06Griffin Newman?

  I have this very strong memory of my industry dad having the variety that says she's fired all of her reps. And he goes like, I know these movies haven't worked. The, uh, intolerable cruelty.

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Terminal, Ocean's 12 run in a row. But he was like, if you got Academy Award winner Catherine Zeta-Jones, and the next three projects you give her are Coens, Spielberg, Hanks.

• 23:30David Sims?

  You're doing your job.

• 23:31Griffin Newman?

  Spielberg, Hanks.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 23:32Griffin Newman?

  And Ocean's. You're doing your job. You kinda can't get three better projects for her.

• 23:37David Sims?

  I would agree with that. And yet they didn't, none of them really worked out.

• 23:40Griffin Newman?

  And the stink was on her.

• 23:42David Sims?

  The stink was on her.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Even though none of them are her fault, the reason that they did not work. Although I think I would agree. I was thinking about her performance in this and whether she's the weak link and like who I would replace her with, like from that period.

• 23:52David Sims?

  Well, so that was my question. Well, but no, so here's what I want to bring up right now. So 2003, David Sims, imagine him, 17 years old, a cinephile.

• 23:59Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:00David Sims?

  Foggy London town. Yes. Living in foggy London town, reading his Empire magazines, by this point, reading his Sight and Sounds, watching his old movies, right?

• 24:09Griffin Newman?

  A cool guy.

• 24:09David Sims?

  Oh, so cool. Funky trash.

• 24:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Active social life.

• 24:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:14David Sims?

  I had a very active social life. I am an extroverted boy.

• 24:17Griffin Newman?

  Biting your bottom lip, raising a roof.

• 24:19David Sims?

  Doing those things. Dressing, we're gonna say, just okay. Probably some work to be done there.

• 24:25Speaker 03

  If you watch this movie, you see the fashion of the time and realize none of us really stood a chance. It's fine.

• 24:29David Sims?

  That's an interesting point. So, but there's two movies that come out this year that are related to each other in that they are both trying to recapture the sort of throwback spirit of an old rom-com. Intolerable Cruelty, I would say is more of a screwball comedy. And then Down With Love, which is more of a sort of 50s Doris Day, Rock Hudson kind of thing. But like, they both have this same energy of like, Arch. We are going super arch. We've got movie stars. We've got costumes. We've got bright colors and audiences are like, no, thank you. Like, absolutely not. This is not the tone we prefer.

• 25:03Griffin Newman?

  Down with Love has completely been reclaimed, I would say at this point.

• 25:05David Sims?

  Down with Love was essentially an instant cult classic. It came out, bombed, critics were like blah, but audiences were like, we hate it. And the Oscar watch forums were like, masterpiece.

• 25:17Speaker 03

  Well, and it has a period piece going for it, right? Like, in Tarot Coolty being present day.

• 25:22David Sims?

  Does the weird kind of, not a period piece, but something of a period like tone.

• 25:27Griffin Newman?

  I think it is why everyone bumped on this when it came out.

• 25:31David Sims?

  Yes.

• 25:32Griffin Newman?

  Is for filmmakers who are so good at pastiche.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 25:36Griffin Newman?

  This is one of their most pastichey movies and yet it is committed to being dressed like a modern film.

• 25:43David Sims?

  And featuring modern things like video cameras and fucking, you know, just like the sort of the

• 25:48Speaker 03

  Cable shows.

• 25:49David Sims?

  The type of gold digger that it's about is a modern kind of, you know, all that shit.

• 25:53Griffin Newman?

  I think that broke brains in both directions. And you even look at the trailer for this movie, which can't decide.

• 25:59David Sims?

  I saw a billion times.

• 26:00Griffin Newman?

  A billion times. You cannot decide, you fascinate me was

• 26:05David Sims?

  You fascinate me.

• 26:06Griffin Newman?

  Was one of those weird duly appointed federal marshals.

• 26:10David Sims?

  A hundred percent.

• 26:11Griffin Newman?

  Right. Um, the trailer can't decide if they're trying to sell Coen's weirdness or they're trying to sell two sexy movie stars doing rom com.

• 26:18David Sims?

  It's more trying to sell, this is, we've got two hot people. They're going to fall in love and it's a comedy set in the world of the divorce lawyer. Okay, fine. But yeah, you know, like, yes, lest we forget.

• 26:31Griffin Newman?

  To Klaus the Baron Heinz.

• 26:32David Sims?

  Exactly. There's gonna be some goofy Coen'sy stuff.

• 26:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:37David Sims?

  And that's me again in the audience, you know, with a little foam finger being like, I'm ready. I love Preston Sturgis.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Because in the context of the movie, those things do go hand in hand, but selling them both together is really hard.

• 26:48Griffin Newman?

  I think this movie is incredibly cohesive and like of a piece.

• 26:52David Sims?

  Agree.

• 26:52Griffin Newman?

  But I remember, I did not see this at the time. I said erroneously it from the moment I became Coen-pilled when I saw. Brother, I haven't missed one of their films in theaters. But I didn't see this in theaters because everyone around me told me it was bad.

• 27:07David Sims?

  It didn't get very good reviews and it vanished quickly.

• 27:10Griffin Newman?

  Both directions where I was like, people went to see it as a comedy where like, that thing sucks. It's not funny. And I was like, I don't trust them. I need to talk to Cohen's people. And Cohen's people in my life were like, it's bad. It doesn't feel like them. It feels anonymous, which is insane to me.

• 27:25David Sims?

  Now, it's insane.

• 27:26Griffin Newman?

  Now it's insane.

• 27:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:28Griffin Newman?

  But I do think there was that bumping of like, people didn't know how to process this.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:33Griffin Newman?

  I think if this movie had been set in an arch 40s like sort of thing, it would have.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  If it had been the Hug, the Hug, the Hudsucker proxy, which I did rewatch coming into this and was thinking a lot about that archness and how the setting of it.

• 27:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  Tells you what it's gonna be way more than intolerable cruelty does.

• 27:49Griffin Newman?

  Would have bombed.

• 27:50David Sims?

  Giant pop.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:52Griffin Newman?

  Harder upon release.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:54Griffin Newman?

  But I think it would have found its champions faster.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:57Griffin Newman?

  Versus, I feel like Cohen's people who are like loathe to revisit this because they're like, I just remember that being a complete nothing.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:04Griffin Newman?

  I think if you watch it now, I watched it for the first time on a plane years later and I was like, it's the one I haven't seen. I guess I should watch it. And I got to the fucking Kershner was in Kentucky scene. And I immediately was like, this is fucking Preston Surges. This is the most egregious of any of their films.

• 28:23David Sims?

  A hundred percent.

• 28:23Griffin Newman?

  How did people not get this down to like, it's weird, like seven act structure.

• 28:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:28Griffin Newman?

  It's like insane, like scenes, like set pieces built around dialogue.

• 28:33Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 28:33Griffin Newman?

  And like seven internal games within a five person conversation.

• 28:37David Sims?

  Objection, your honor. Poetry recitation.

• 28:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 28:40David Sims?

  I'm just gonna keep giving you lines. We would say, you would say, make hammer on his fanny. The way they say nail his ass in five different ways across the.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 28:57Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 28:58David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 28:58Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's cozy season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 29:06David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 29:07Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 29:14David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. They've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 29:20Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:21David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 29:27Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 29:31David Sims?

  No.

• 29:31Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 29:32David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to leesa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code BLANKCHECK. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com, promo code BLANKCHECK for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. LESA.com promo code BLANKCHECK.

• 30:19Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 30:19David Sims?

  Yes?

• 30:20Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 30:41David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 31:00Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 31:16David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to The Darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 31:51Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 31:51David Sims?

  Yes?

• 31:52Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 31:56David Sims?

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• 32:01Griffin Newman?

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• 32:03David Sims?

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• 32:10Griffin Newman?

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• 32:18David Sims?

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• 33:12Griffin Newman?

  It also, it's the funniest thing to me that this remains their most expensive film. I've erroneously said it was Hudsucker, but I didn't realize this movie cost a reported 60 million.

• 33:22David Sims?

  I wanna, I wanna see what JJ's research says because I've seen that number. And maybe it is truly just Clooney and Catherine got their quote.

• 33:29Griffin Newman?

  I also think a lot of development costs.

• 33:31David Sims?

  Maybe that too.

• 33:32Griffin Newman?

  You have to remember that always counts against the film in this movie. It just bopped around for 15 years.

• 33:37David Sims?

  Creek, I'm opening the dossier, actually. Why not? Because indeed, this is, this is crucial to understanding Intolerable Coolity because it lived many lives before the Coens made it. It was written as a film by Robert Ramsey and Matthew Stone, who had made movies like Man of the House.

• 33:54Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Oh, JTT, you remember it well.

• 33:56David Sims?

  Life, the, um.

• 33:58Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 33:59David Sims?

  Ted Demme, Martin Lawrence, Eddie Murphy, Dromedie, that is like, not bad.

• 34:03Griffin Newman?

  We, we, every time this comes up the box.

• 34:05David Sims?

  Weird movie, yeah.

• 34:06Griffin Newman?

  It's so close to being great that every five years I'll watch it and I'll be like, is it a masterpiece yet? Like, do I need to put it back in the oven for five more years?

• 34:13David Sims?

  And they write this script.

• 34:15Griffin Newman?

  Man of the House and Soul Man, of course, two of the least culturally problematic films ever made.

• 34:19David Sims?

  No, no, no, not Soul Man.

• 34:21Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Soul Man?

• 34:21David Sims?

  Soul Men with Robert Downey Jr. and Bernie Mac, which is a serviceable.

• 34:25Griffin Newman?

  Not Robert Downey Jr.

• 34:26David Sims?

  I mean, Samuel, you know, a three, a three.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, that still sounds problematic here.

• 34:33Griffin Newman?

  He wanted to follow up his Tropic Thunder nomination.

• 34:36David Sims?

  I feel like that was like one of the last Bernie Mac movies, right?

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, that came out like after Intolerable Coolity, right?

• 34:42David Sims?

  Uh, Soul Men came out in 2008.

• 34:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 34:45David Sims?

  Yes.

• 34:45Griffin Newman?

  I, I wanna say Old Dogs is the last one to be released.

• 34:50David Sims?

  But I feel like it was the last.

• 34:51Griffin Newman?

  But Soul Man was his last Bernie Mac.

• 34:52David Sims?

  Right, where he's above the title.

• 34:54Griffin Newman?

  It's okay.

• 34:54David Sims?

  Um, they wrote this, this, uh, this concept based, you know, Rom come set in the world of divorce lawyer. Okay, funny. Uh, Michael Keaton Jones, the director of Doc Hollywood is attached. That makes sense.

• 35:06Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 35:07David Sims?

  Like, that sounds like a sort of okay Rom come from the 90s so far, right? Uh, the Coens come on as screenwriters because Ron Howard picks it up. And brings them in to polish it.

• 35:18Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 35:18David Sims?

  He wants to make it after wrapping ransom.

• 35:21Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:22David Sims?

  And then Howard moves on, uh, to make way for Andrew Bergman, the director of The Freshman.

• 35:28Griffin Newman?

  It could happen to you.

• 35:30David Sims?

  Another guy who makes that kind of 90s on base single.

• 35:34Griffin Newman?

  But it basically, I don't know if the pitch was this focused at the time, but I feel like, my girlfriend was asking me, like, what is Intellible Cruelty about? And I was like, how do I logline it? And it's interesting because this felt like a script that studios were so hot on for so long.

• 35:51David Sims?

  Just kept being like, someone's gotta make it.

• 35:52Griffin Newman?

  Right. This is such a good premise. And I was like, I guess the premise is divorce lawyer who becomes obsessed with world's greatest cold digger.

• 36:02David Sims?

  There's that.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  It's like they're an opposite side of the bat.

• 36:05David Sims?

  Like, what if, right, what if the world's most, you know, brutal divorce lawyer and the world's greatest gold digger fell in love?

• 36:13Griffin Newman?

  Right. And they sort of become fascinated with each other.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  But imagining Ron Howard doing that with like a few, like a gold digger, like there's a cynicism baked into it. That's hard to imagine a lot of these people doing it.

• 36:22David Sims?

  I mean, like, I just figure guys like Ron Howard are like, I'm making, Ron Howard is the ultimate journey. He's like, I'm making a thriller, maybe I'll make a rom com.

• 36:30Griffin Newman?

  The softest version. I think everyone else was gonna make a much softer version of this. Chronologically, this is the first for hire work Coens do.

• 36:38David Sims?

  Right. This is the start of them.

• 36:40Griffin Newman?

  Polish of the script.

• 36:40Speaker 03

  So what, where are they? This is like in the period where they're, okay, the period where they're making Hud Sucker and they haven't made any money. So they're doing script doctoring.

• 36:47Griffin Newman?

  So I think it's in the immediate post Hud Sucker, they do a pass on this. That pass gets people really excited. That's when it elevates to like, oh, now it's Ron Howard level filmmaker's interest in this.

• 36:57David Sims?

  So after Bergman, Joe Dante came aboard and was going to make it with Jeremy Irons and Heather Locklear.

• 37:04Griffin Newman?

  Bizarre.

• 37:05David Sims?

  Which like, they don't, they're not a pair that makes sense.

• 37:08Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 37:08David Sims?

  Uh, Jeremy Irons, like, I could see that.

• 37:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:12David Sims?

  Uh, Howard then returns, then leaves to make Grinch and Beautiful Mind.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 37:18Griffin Newman?

  Other people are rewriting the script past the Coen draft at this point.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  So they had moved on. They made Fargo. They're good. They can do other stuff.

• 37:24David Sims?

  Then Jonathan Demme, who's clearly seeking out a sort of throwbacky movie and eventually makes it with Truth About Charlie.

• 37:31Griffin Newman?

  But what is so?

• 37:32David Sims?

  Like circles this one with Will Smith.

• 37:34Griffin Newman?

  This is what's insane. I need to just get this timeline clear here. He's trying to do Truth About Charlie with Will Smith. Will Smith is doing Ollie with Michael Mann.

• 37:42David Sims?

  Right. And Ollie just takes too long.

• 37:44Griffin Newman?

  Surprise of surprise, Michael Mann movie runs over budget, over schedule. And he's just like-

• 37:49David Sims?

  And Will Smith is very much like, I don't care, I will do anything for this movie. Like, he was so in on Ali.

• 37:53Griffin Newman?

  Right, that he's like, I guess I'll wait for you.

• 37:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 37:56Griffin Newman?

  There's the threat of a WGA strike-

• 37:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 38:00Griffin Newman?

  That ends up not happening.

• 38:01David Sims?

  Right, that was, right, you're right.

• 38:02Griffin Newman?

  That has everyone panicked of like, you gotta get something made. So then he's like, can I find something else?

• 38:06David Sims?

  Maybe I'll make something in the meantime, so right, then he circles this. And he's, and he, he wants Hugh Grant.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:13Griffin Newman?

  True.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, oh yeah.

• 38:14David Sims?

  And Taileonie. But at the time, she's-

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Anti Taileonie, I didn't, you weren't-

• 38:20David Sims?

  Have you seen Spanglish? Do you think Taileonie is the bravest?

• 38:23Speaker 03

  I watched a lot of Just Shoot Me in, in this period.

• 38:26David Sims?

  Well, she's not in that, so.

• 38:27Griffin Newman?

  I love Shelly.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  Was she in Shoot Me?

• 38:29David Sims?

  I'm sure you enjoyed it.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  Who am I thinking of? God, she was on a show.

• 38:32Griffin Newman?

  It was called The Naked Truth, was it not?

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 38:34David Sims?

  I think so, it wasn't an MBC.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  Hang on, what MBC sitcom do I know Taileonie from?

• 38:40David Sims?

  I mean, I think of Taileonie as emerging with like Flirting with Disaster, or whatever, right? The David, and then she was in Deep Impact.

• 38:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  I know her from Deep Impact for sure. I guess The Naked Truth is what I'm thinking of.

• 38:50David Sims?

  Right, but her being in Deep Impact was kind of that thing of like, she was in a movie that made money?

• 38:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 38:55David Sims?

  Is she a star?

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:56David Sims?

  And like, the answer was sort of no.

• 38:57Griffin Newman?

  Family Man, I think she's very good in.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  Sorry, I didn't mean to put us on a Taileonie, uh, sidebar.

• 39:03Griffin Newman?

  It's the Entertainment Weekly cover for Naked Truth, where I believe she's naked wrapping the American flag.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, that all sounds about right.

• 39:09David Sims?

  Um, uh, Demi then, uh, hops off to go back to Truth About Charlie.

• 39:14Griffin Newman?

  Right, he goes, never mind.

• 39:16David Sims?

  Who's gonna be great.

• 39:17Griffin Newman?

  I can't wait for Will, I'll do Truth About Charlie. One of the worst movie star casting choices of all time, not waiting for Will Smith.

• 39:24Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:25Griffin Newman?

  And then he tries after the fact to do Intolerable Cruelty again with Will Smith. Cause he's so angry that he missed his Will Smith shot.

• 39:32David Sims?

  Correct, then, he makes Truth About Charlie, he's coming off of that probably thinking like, nailed that, everyone's gonna love it. Uh, and then, right, is like, I still have Taileonie attached and I'm now going to try and attract Will Smith.

• 39:43Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  Would Will Smith have been good in this movie?

• 39:47David Sims?

  Um, sure.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  I can see a version of it working. Not like Clooney, but I can see it working.

• 39:51David Sims?

  I mean, like Hitch, Will Smith, that kind of like overconfident but doesn't, you know, he'd be fine.

• 39:56Griffin Newman?

  Hitch is the perfect-

• 39:57David Sims?

  It's a completely different movie.

• 39:58Griffin Newman?

  Will Smith rom-com vehicle.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:01Griffin Newman?

  Down to now understanding how much of that movie is like weirdly autobiographical.

• 40:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 40:08David Sims?

  So, the Coens, obviously, the whole time are around to script polishers, but they are developing To the White Sea. Their ill-begotten, never-made adaptation of a Jane Austen novel. And obviously, they want Brad Pitt, and that movie has bounced from Universal to 20th Century Fox.

• 40:28Griffin Newman?

  It's this constant battle of like a budget between 40 and 60 million dollars. They can get it made for 40 with Brad Pitt.

• 40:34David Sims?

  Yes.

• 40:34Griffin Newman?

  But every time they have a close to set up-

• 40:36David Sims?

  The Coens want like 60 and they want to shoot it in Japan, and Fox keeps being like, isn't this like a movie with no dialogue?

• 40:41Griffin Newman?

  They'll tentatively like greenlight it at 50, and then a new budget will come in at 60 and pull the brakes on it again.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  They're actively in the middle of this like after Oh Brother, trying to make To the White Sea.

• 40:51David Sims?

  It's the thing they keep trying to make. By 2001, Joel Coen says in an interview that To the White Sea, quote, "went down the old Drainerino." I do like that. They're pretty, you know, kind of flipping.

• 41:02Griffin Newman?

  But they're like close to going.

• 41:03David Sims?

  Yes.

• 41:04Griffin Newman?

  It falls apart, and they're like, I guess we're giving up on this for good. Carter Burwell basically-

• 41:08David Sims?

  It's the one movie they, to this day, talk about as like, that was a movie we wanted to make. Like, of course, they've had other projects that never came to fruition, but that seems to be the only one.

• 41:16Griffin Newman?

  It is the great on-made movie.

• 41:17David Sims?

  Right, in their brain.

• 41:18Griffin Newman?

  Our friends, Raiton, Tori, Jordan Fish, your former classmates-

• 41:21Speaker 03

  My former classmates.

• 41:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh, have done a great podcast about it, continue to do a great podcast about it. But yes, it's the great on-made Coens movie.

• 41:28David Sims?

  I have a question, actually. Were you in attendance of the early MGMT concert?

• 41:33Speaker 03

  Yes, I seen that video going around. I'm not in that video, but like I have, I have like Zapruder film gone through it being like, I've got to know someone who's in that. I haven't been able to find it, but yes, I saw them play multiple house parties circa 2004, 2003.

• 41:48David Sims?

  And you were like, this music could really crush in a commercial.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  That, Kids, was the song that they had in college that they would put it on at a party, and everyone would go- Every wedding I've been to from someone from Wesleyan, like they always play kids. Everyone always gets something. It's a, it's a thing. It's.

• 42:03David Sims?

  What was the other one? There were two. It was kids and.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Well, and Time to Pretend was there and famously from the Minecraft movie trailer. Now beloved by children the world over.

• 42:12Griffin Newman?

  I think Katie's right about this. I think.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Oh, kids now love Time to Pretend. The M G M T has had its generational moment. It's a great song.

• 42:20Griffin Newman?

  I love the second album, which is the one that everyone kind of.

• 42:22David Sims?

  That was when everyone was like, we're out.

• 42:24Griffin Newman?

  I know. It's the good one. It's the fucking. Congratulations is really.

• 42:26David Sims?

  It was with the like optical illusion cover.

• 42:29Griffin Newman?

  Well, there were different. There was a scratch off cover for the vinyl release. It's Trapper. It's Trapper Keeper. It's very Trapper.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:36David Sims?

  I remember.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  Feels about right.

• 42:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 42:40David Sims?

  So, uh, yeah, that doesn't happen and they're disappointed.

• 42:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 42:45David Sims?

  And they are coming up to this point where it's like, okay, do we like strip to the white sea down to the tax?

• 42:52Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 42:52David Sims?

  And try to reconstitute it as something that's gonna be cheaper or whatever, or do we fucking do something else?

• 42:57Griffin Newman?

  Do we bury it? Do we move on so we don't keep getting hung up, losing years of our lives trying to make this?

• 43:03David Sims?

  At this point, Pitt has moved on, but they had Clooney attached to intolerable cruelty. I mean, it's to the white sea.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 43:10David Sims?

  And he's the one who's like, why don't we just fucking make intolerable cruelty? Look at this script.

• 43:14Griffin Newman?

  Well, cause Universal has pushed that to him as a potential star vehicle.

• 43:19David Sims?

  It's like, and it's just there.

• 43:20Speaker 03

  Makes perfect sense for him.

• 43:21David Sims?

  And the Coen's are like, we have always liked this script. Like.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:24Griffin Newman?

  Clooney's response, by the way, now having worked with the Coen brothers, they send him the script. He's like, can I read the Coens draft?

• 43:31Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 43:32Griffin Newman?

  Everything I've heard is that the Coens draft like.

• 43:34David Sims?

  He went to Universal and was like, can you dig that up?

• 43:37Griffin Newman?

  That was the one that everyone got so excited about. Can I go back and read that? He reads that and he's like, I would do this. He goes to them. J J has the quote in there, but Carter Burwell basically says that within the same week, they called him to say, unfortunately, to the white sea is dead. And then like three days later said, we're gonna make intolerable cruelty.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  I hope we get a chance to talk about Carter Burwell, cause he is on fire on this movie. So good.

• 44:01David Sims?

  Well, lit himself on fire with, what was it? Blood symbol? Like, what's the first movie?

• 44:05Griffin Newman?

  He's been running on.

• 44:06David Sims?

  Yeah. And he's been just one of those guys walking around on fire and like us ever since.

• 44:11Griffin Newman?

  Incredible score that I think has never been released. You cannot.

• 44:14David Sims?

  This one?

• 44:14Griffin Newman?

  I think.

• 44:15David Sims?

  Yeah. Cause it's like.

• 44:18David Sims?

  Like if I called Universal, they'd be like, what?

• 44:20Speaker 03

  That movie, we didn't make that movie.

• 44:22Griffin Newman?

  Your phone would explode.

• 44:23David Sims?

  So, um, Clooney's attached.

• 44:26Griffin Newman?

  It's suddenly like super fast tracked and Burwell was like, it felt like a breakup rebound thing of them just being like.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  Cause Clooney is as hot as he can possibly be at this point.

• 44:34David Sims?

  He's hot stuff, although we're gonna talk about his career in a second, cause he's in a little moment, he's having a little moment here.

• 44:40Griffin Newman?

  But post-Oceans, in 2001, I do think there is a feeling of he's cracked it 100%, right? The irony of course is that Clooney never is able to replicate mainstream crossover movie star in the pocket outside of the Oceans trilogy in the way he did there, but in that moment, I think they were like, he's crossed it all.

• 45:02David Sims?

  But you're forgetting, the run is, it's really impressive after Batman and Robin, you know?

• 45:09Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 45:09David Sims?

  So like, we all love Batman and Robin, and then Peacemaker, which like did okay. You've got like Out of Sight, which it just does okay, but is such a smash critically.

• 45:20Speaker 03

  Which is the, the movie star persona, like that's where he figures it out. Like that's the start of it.

• 45:24David Sims?

  And then Three Kings, which is, does pretty good and again gets amazing reviews. And then Perfect Storm, Oh Brother, Ocean's Eleven.

• 45:32Griffin Newman?

  No, I, I know.

• 45:32David Sims?

  It's pretty nuts.

• 45:33Griffin Newman?

  But Oh Brother, or not Oh Brother, I'm sorry. Ocean's Eleven is one of the 10 highest grossing films of the year.

• 45:39David Sims?

  You're not gonna beat Ocean's Eleven.

• 45:40Griffin Newman?

  And, and even in this big ensemble thing, you were like, this guy's undeniable. He's taking the Cary Grant mantle. I think that's a lot of the feel.

• 45:47David Sims?

  Totally.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:48Griffin Newman?

  He's now the mayor of Hollywood.

• 45:49David Sims?

  It's just slap a tux on this guy and we'll want it. But what does he want to make? He wants to make an out and out comedy. It's funny that he's saying that because it's like, he did make Oh Brother, but I guess Oh Brother is like such an odd movie.

• 45:58Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 45:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:59David Sims?

  He's like, can I fucking make a comedy? He's also, uh, editing Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, which of course he directed.

• 46:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:06David Sims?

  And he has, like, he's finishing work on Solaris, even Soderbergh's film, The Laugh Riot of 2002.

• 46:14David Sims?

  Which is, I mean, one of my favorite movies of all time, but it's a gloomy film. Let us, let us say.

• 46:19Griffin Newman?

  Let us say.

• 46:20David Sims?

  And, uh, so I'm sure he wants to shake the sillies out a little bit, right? Like, he's like, let me, you know, be a buffoon again for the Coens.

• 46:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:30David Sims?

  Uh, and I think this is interesting, this is from a Vanity Fair piece 2003.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  I was, I did not work on that.

• 46:37Griffin Newman?

  David's chest ring.

• 46:38Speaker 03

  I did not write, yeah, I did.

• 46:41David Sims?

  Where he says, he's like, this, it is kind of a terrifying thing to do because this could be so bad. Like, when you're reading the script, this rat-a-tat, this screwball thing where like, I have to go for it, right? Like, I'm gonna have to give like a really big performance, and he does, and it rocks, but it could be so like, ooh, you know?

• 46:58Griffin Newman?

  Incredible in this.

• 46:59David Sims?

  Yes.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  But it's not like he's doing anything that silly, like, he's, he's not the big goofy character. I mean, there's, I guess he wears a kilt, but like, you know, the, the Baron and all those other side characters are doing so much of the heightened stuff, and he's in the like locked-in Cary Grant mode.

• 47:12Griffin Newman?

  It's just very stylized. It's a stylized performance, which speaks to why audiences bumped on this movie in general.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:19Griffin Newman?

  What is this weird thing going on here without it having the clear signposts of being a period piece? Being more stylized, yeah.

• 47:29David Sims?

  Rumor has it, top choice for this movie is Julia Roberts.

• 47:32Griffin Newman?

  Makes perfect sense.

• 47:33David Sims?

  Obviously, Clooney has literally just worked with her twice, Oceans and Confessions.

• 47:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:38David Sims?

  Uh, they're pals. But Catherine Zeta-Jones has just won her Oscar.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Sure has.

• 47:43David Sims?

  Right?

• 47:44Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:45David Sims?

  Although I have to imagine, was this filmed after that?

• 47:49Griffin Newman?

  It must have been.

• 47:50Speaker 03

  But Chicago was such an obviously hot thing.

• 47:53David Sims?

  Oscar like March 2003.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  In '03, yeah.

• 47:56David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, no, this film's, but this film's after Chicago's done, but it filmed in June 2002.

• 48:02Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wild.

• 48:03Speaker 03

  But they knew that she was gonna hit big with Chicago. Yeah.

• 48:09David Sims?

  And they all had a great time with her.

• 48:12Griffin Newman?

  Chicago did feel like a... Did you hear that Chicago's good?

• 48:17Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 48:17Griffin Newman?

  Like, it was not seen as an Oscar contender until, like, October.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Because it was supposed to be Kings of New York, right?

• 48:23Griffin Newman?

  Right. And people were just like, "That can't be good."

• 48:25Speaker 03

  Hmm. Man.

• 48:27David Sims?

  It is crazy that it came in and just fucking, right, like, elbowed Marty out of the way. And who's the other? There's two big pianists.

• 48:35Griffin Newman?

  Hours.

• 48:35David Sims?

  Well, Peanuts came on late. It was the Hours, I guess.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  And Two Towers is in there, right?

• 48:39David Sims?

  Right, which everyone was sort of like, "Hold."

• 48:42Speaker 03

  We'll get there.

• 48:43David Sims?

  Like, "Hold."

• 48:44Griffin Newman?

  And that's the year where I... Is every Best Picture nominee produced by either Rudin or Weinstein?

• 48:52Speaker 03

  Except for Lord of the Rings, I think.

• 48:55David Sims?

  The Hours is the one Rudin. No, but Weinstein has his name on it.

• 48:58Speaker 03

  Oh, that's right. Yeah.

• 48:59Griffin Newman?

  He still had his name on the DVD credit.

• 49:02David Sims?

  Uh, right. And his name is on it because he fired Peter Jackson or whatever the fuck.

• 49:08Griffin Newman?

  Nice work if you can get it.

• 49:09David Sims?

  He didn't, like, I think Weinstein's involvement with Chicago was low, but it was a Miramax movie.

• 49:14Speaker 03

  Yes, it was.

• 49:15David Sims?

  Gangs of New York was obviously the Weinstein one where he actually gets a nomination for that one. And then I do think he had something to do with the penis as well.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't...

• 49:23Griffin Newman?

  They released it. Or no?

• 49:24David Sims?

  No.

• 49:24Speaker 03

  The penis was somebody else.

• 49:26David Sims?

  The penis was, um...

• 49:27Griffin Newman?

  Am I wrong?

• 49:28David Sims?

  Uh, fucking, who even released the penis?

• 49:31Griffin Newman?

  Focus?

• 49:32David Sims?

  No.

• 49:33Speaker 03

  Canal Plus produ... Wikipedia is really not coming through on this one.

• 49:38David Sims?

  Yeah, who knows? Who can say? It's a mystery. We'll never know. Um, anyway, they had a great time making this movie. The Coons did very little press. JJ's apologizing. I don't know why you need to apologize to me. I don't employ you because you're fired. Uh, apparently they were already shooting The Ladykillers when this movie came out.

• 49:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 49:56David Sims?

  So I guess they didn't do much press.

• 49:58Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:00David Sims?

  They liked that it was set in the present.

• 50:02Griffin Newman?

  Cool.

• 50:03David Sims?

  Cool. Uh, Roger Deakins was coming off shooting House of Sand and Fog, another laugh riot.

• 50:08Griffin Newman?

  Peanuts was released by Focus.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 50:10David Sims?

  There you go. Uh, Carter Burwell says he settled on a Mancini, Mancini approach. Light-hearted, 60s jazz pop.

• 50:21Griffin Newman?

  And it's a classic hymn re-appropriating other music into the score beautifully, much like Hudsucker.

• 50:28David Sims?

  And the film premiered, and I would say this is mistake number one at the Venice International Film Festival.

• 50:35Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 50:36David Sims?

  Uh, out of competition as a work in progress, which is insane.

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Wouldn't have done that.

• 50:41David Sims?

  Uh, I think it was still missing a scene or two.

• 50:43Griffin Newman?

  Does it come out October?

• 50:44David Sims?

  And then it came out in October. Like, do not release this in October.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, put it out in spring.

• 50:49David Sims?

  This is a spring or summer movie.

• 50:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 50:50David Sims?

  Like, it's a light rom-com.

• 50:52Griffin Newman?

  But this speaks to them not knowing, like, is this a straight down the middle play and we're hiding the ball on Cohen's weirdness?

• 50:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:59David Sims?

  Right.

• 51:00Griffin Newman?

  Or do we want some level of like Cohen's prestige?

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it looks like America Sweethearts or some other kind of modern day rom-coms. So getting that prestige, even getting the Cohen's people on board, I think is challenging because you look at the poster for it, you're like, I know what that is.

• 51:13Griffin Newman?

  The most generic poster in the world. They take this beautiful two-shot.

• 51:16David Sims?

  They're sitting next to each other.

• 51:18Griffin Newman?

  Well, there's this beautiful two-shot of like just incredible movie star glow of Clooney and Zeta Jones in the elevator. A scene that is like throwing off its hump by a dog biting his hand and a bunch of funny dialogue, right?

• 51:30David Sims?

  Stuff.

• 51:31Griffin Newman?

  And they just like screenshot that.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:33Griffin Newman?

  And then remove the elevator and put them in front of the most generic blue cloud.

• 51:37David Sims?

  Trees or whatever.

• 51:38Griffin Newman?

  Style, the sky, yeah.

• 51:41David Sims?

  What can I tell you?

• 51:42Speaker 04

  The font is bad.

• 51:42Griffin Newman?

  The font's bad.

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:44David Sims?

  Do you like, do you guys like the, um, actual opening credit? You know, the, the, the sort of Vegas-y.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  Suspicious minds, yeah.

• 51:51David Sims?

  You know, the, uh, the.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's great.

• 51:53David Sims?

  Cupids and the hearts. Yeah, it's fun, right?

• 51:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 51:55Speaker 04

  It's like Monty Python flying circus.

• 51:58David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  I think they got opening title sequences. I didn't like go through enough of every one.

• 52:02David Sims?

  I would not say so, but this is a movie that demands it, I would say.

• 52:05Griffin Newman?

  This is the most, I'm trying to think of other films of theirs that have kind of like standalone opening credit sequences.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Because like Hut Sucker, you go through the city, but that's like the set, so.

• 52:14David Sims?

  I mean, like, Raising Arizona has the like unbelievable like whis, you know, yodeling, you know, like title rushing at you. They, they'll crush an opening title.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:23David Sims?

  But they don't, they don't usually.

• 52:24Griffin Newman?

  But this kind of sequence.

• 52:26David Sims?

  Yes.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, having like a cold open and then cutting to the title like makes sense for them, but like the cupids felt, you know.

• 52:31Griffin Newman?

  The movie. And even just this movie opening with like, what is Jeffrey Rush doing in this? How does this factor into the plot? It takes. So long to circle back in any way.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:40David Sims?

  My thing, so my thing with this movie is, I see when it comes out, I think it's great and I'm immediately like only fan of it.

• 52:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:47David Sims?

  You know, and it's quickly forgotten. And then over the years, I will show it to anyone I date. Any pal of mine because I'm like, because they're always like, ah, I just want to watch something light. And I'm like, have I got a light movie for you? The Coen Brothers made a rom com with George Clooney. Do you want to watch it? Every single one of them. It starts with the Jeffrey Rush thing and they're just like, okay.

• 53:08Griffin Newman?

  The fuck is this?

• 53:09David Sims?

  And it loses them and never gets them back.

• 53:12Griffin Newman?

  Impaled in the butt with a golden glow.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  And screaming bitch at a car to drive. It's a, oh, God, no. It's not an Emmy. It's like a, not a cable award.

• 53:20David Sims?

  It's daytime, nighttime, I mean, it's a made up award.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:22David Sims?

  Um, but like, and you just, and then like, you know, oh, Clooney's here and they're doing the, and I'm like, listen to this Rodeo Tattletale. And they're just like, I, I don't care. Like, it's never worked on anyone I've ever shown it to.

• 53:35Griffin Newman?

  It's wild.

• 53:35David Sims?

  Isn't that weird?

• 53:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 53:36David Sims?

  Or am I the fool?

• 53:38Speaker 03

  I mean, I, I said the thing about Jeffrey Rush earlier. Like, I don't think it's that he's bad, but it's, it's off putting.

• 53:42David Sims?

  Doing the assignment.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  And there's something about that sequence being like, oh, she caught, he caught his wife sleeping with the pool guy. Like, oh, I kind of get what this is. Like, the, the Coen twist on it takes time to merge. I think you need a name like Rex Rex Roth and like the train stuff, like, the, you know, the sequence later where it's him, you know, driving with the, the girl in the hotel room and Cedric the Entertainer busts in, like, all the train stuff is so funny and specific. And the Jeffrey Rush stuff feels more generic. Oh, Hollywood divorce kind of thing? I think that's part of the challenge of that movie.

• 54:09David Sims?

  I think you're right. I mean, there's no.

• 54:11Griffin Newman?

  It's very broad.

• 54:12David Sims?

  Right.

• 54:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:12Griffin Newman?

  And it's kind of nonspecific.

• 54:14David Sims?

  It felt pretty grounded to me. I don't know what you mean, kind of earthy.

• 54:18Griffin Newman?

  And you're sort of like, what does this have to do with anything?

• 54:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:20David Sims?

  And the answer is.

• 54:21Griffin Newman?

  It makes sense. They need this big of an opening credit sequence because you kind of need to like palate reset immediately.

• 54:27David Sims?

  You've also, it's like, you know, you need to understand that this guy, Jeffrey Rush, like nailed his wife in Flagrante so hard. And yet, Miles Massey like took him for everything, right? Like this guy is unbeatable.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  When you get Clooney in there and being like, well, and we assume that he beat you or that he was trying to sleep with the pool guy or whatever, like that, that's the tone is coming into place.

• 54:48David Sims?

  Who's the lady? Uh, she's very funny. She's got great hair.

• 54:51Griffin Newman?

  Um. Yes.

• 54:53David Sims?

  I'll look her up.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  I meant to look her up also.

• 54:56Griffin Newman?

  But yeah.

• 54:56David Sims?

  Stacy Travis.

• 54:57Griffin Newman?

  But the movie doesn't resume with them.

• 55:00David Sims?

  Nope.

• 55:00Griffin Newman?

  In court.

• 55:01David Sims?

  Nope.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 55:02Griffin Newman?

  It just kind of jumps ahead and you understand that is another battle he won.

• 55:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:07Griffin Newman?

  I do love this setup of just, this guy is so fucking good at divorce law that he's bored. Right? That he can just pull off anything. You can see how thoroughly the deck is stacked against the guy.

• 55:21David Sims?

  I think it's great. Exactly. I think that's so funny. It's like, right, like, he's done it all. He's done the hardest thing. So then when Edward Herman shows up, by the way, Edward Herman also hit in threes.

• 55:32Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 55:34Griffin Newman?

  Chugga chugga choo.

• 55:34David Sims?

  It's so funny. And is basically like, hi, like, I cheat on my wife all the time.

• 55:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 55:40David Sims?

  She's caught me doing it. I don't have a prenup.

• 55:43Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 55:43David Sims?

  And I like, you know, I've been married to her for years.

• 55:46Griffin Newman?

  He tries to use the open marriage excuse.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:47David Sims?

  Right.

• 55:48Griffin Newman?

  Was that talked about? Was it agreed upon?

• 55:50Speaker 03

  Well, Clooney's like, you want to like, put your unoffending wife out on her ass?

• 55:54David Sims?

  And you propose. She have her talk and he.

• 55:56Griffin Newman?

  You see his eyes light up. So just to get this straight.

• 55:59David Sims?

  So obscene. I guess I could try.

• 56:02Griffin Newman?

  In spite of demonstrable infidelity.

• 56:04David Sims?

  In your part, you propose.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  With Clooney's performance, I thought so much of Fantastic Mr. Fox because it's a similar Ratatat vibe into like, oh, what's left for me in my life? Like, it really feels like Wes Anderson saw this movie and was like, that's the thing.

• 56:15Griffin Newman?

  That's a really good call.

• 56:15David Sims?

  Now that Clooney just did a bomb back and is, you know, you know, whatever, seems to be sort of getting limber again.

• 56:21Speaker 03

  Oh, it's coming.

• 56:22David Sims?

  Can you do a Wes? Can I have live action Wes?

• 56:25Griffin Newman?

  It would be so great.

• 56:27Speaker 03

  Would be really good.

• 56:28Griffin Newman?

  You know, the whole thing with Fantastic Mr. Fox is that he didn't record them in booths.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. They're like running around in circles in the grass.

• 56:37Griffin Newman?

  His home.

• 56:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:38Griffin Newman?

  And they acted out the whole movie on like mini DV cameras and he pulled that audio. So you can see there's like 90 minutes of Clooney acting through all of Fantastic Mr. Fox.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's like doing somersaults in like a yard. Yeah.

• 56:52Griffin Newman?

  And they'll show those clips sometimes and I'm like, can you please put that full cut out there?

• 56:56David Sims?

  I want that now. Right. But I'm just like. They're a great match.

• 57:01Griffin Newman?

  Oh, totally.

• 57:01David Sims?

  He rocks in Panacean, Mr. Fox. Like, give me more of that, please.

• 57:04Griffin Newman?

  No, I agree.

• 57:06Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 57:06Griffin Newman?

  I think we're just also generally, we've just been for years saying, hey, George, how about you direct fewer movies?

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Be a movie star, which you are better at than anyone alive.

• 57:16David Sims?

  So let's just, right, let's just touch on Clooney. No, we've done Clooney before, obviously. We just did Oh Brother, and we will be doing Burn and, uh, Hail Caesar. What else have we done over the year? Well, we've

• 57:26Griffin Newman?

  We did The Oceans.

• 57:27David Sims?

  Oceans on Patreon. We did Batman and Robin on Patreon.

• 57:31Speaker 03

  You guys have been avoiding Soderbergh.

• 57:32Griffin Newman?

  Tomorrowland.

• 57:33David Sims?

  Avoiding him. It's hard.

• 57:34Speaker 03

  You did Tomorrowland.

• 57:35David Sims?

  Yeah, we did Tomorrowland, which is not a

• 57:39David Sims?

  he's not bad in it or anything, but he's, it's such an odd performance because he's so depressed.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  Y'all haven't done Money Monster? No Money Monster fans in here?

• 57:46Griffin Newman?

  We haven't done Money Monster.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  I did that on this at Oscar buzz. I will defend that movie.

• 57:49Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 57:50Speaker 03

  It's not great, but you know, there's stuff there.

• 57:53David Sims?

  But, I mean, it's just the most crucial performance is one of the worst screen performances I've ever seen. From a good actor, or a sometimes good actor.

• 58:01Griffin Newman?

  The Jack O'Connell?

• 58:02David Sims?

  He's so horrible.

• 58:03Griffin Newman?

  I still never seen it.

• 58:03David Sims?

  It just ruins the movie.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  Jack O'Connell's coming back. Now's the time to reappraise him.

• 58:07David Sims?

  Yeah, well, then he should like expunge that movie.

• 58:11Griffin Newman?

  Pay to have that movie wiped off the hard drive.

• 58:13David Sims?

  In other things, he's so off in that movie.

• 58:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 58:16David Sims?

  I remember nothing about Clooney. I remember Julia being good in it.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:19David Sims?

  But it's a bit of a boring role, but like, you know, anyway.

• 58:22Griffin Newman?

  But it does feel like the last 10 years, every time he's been like, I'm ready to do the movie star thing again, he's kind of picked wrong. Like it's Money Monster, Tomorrowland, all these look good on paper.

• 58:33David Sims?

  Ticket to Paradise, which I feel like everyone was so forgiving of because they were like, this is what we want you to do.

• 58:39Griffin Newman?

  It's a real wet blanket of a movie.

• 58:40David Sims?

  But everyone was like, okay.

• 58:41Speaker 03

  I watched it on a plane, which is its natural environment. Yeah.

• 58:45David Sims?

  Wolves didn't even get that treatment. Had it been released in theaters, people might have again kind of been like, we appreciate you trying.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  Did you like Wolves? I never saw it.

• 58:53David Sims?

  So bad.

• 58:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 58:54David Sims?

  I think it really stinks.

• 58:55Griffin Newman?

  I watched it after months of everyone telling me how hard it stunk. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is totally scratching the itch. What's everyone talking about? And then it ended and immediately I was like, that sucked.

• 59:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 59:06Griffin Newman?

  I was kind of riding along with it the whole time in cruise altitude and was like, whatever, it's bad oceans, right? And then it ends and you're like, that was nothing.

• 59:17David Sims?

  It really is nothing.

• 59:18Griffin Newman?

  What a waste of everyone's time and energy.

• 59:20David Sims?

  The audacity to be like, well, maybe Wolf's Two is coming. And you're like, don't fucking piss on my leg.

• 59:25Speaker 03

  We're gonna ditch your theatrical release.

• 59:27David Sims?

  Tell me it's raining, like.

• 59:28Griffin Newman?

  Gonna huff and puff and tell me you'll blow this house down?

• 59:30David Sims?

  And indeed, he's just been making his own films.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's in Midnight Sky. To his credit, it's terrible, but.

• 59:37David Sims?

  No credit will be assigned for the Midnight Sky.

• 59:40Speaker 03

  I mean, we want him to be in his own movies.

• 59:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but you're like, do you?

• 59:42David Sims?

  The thing about the Midnight Sky is, watch it. And you're like, I can't believe this isn't the worst movie George Clooney has directed. And like, I never saw The Boys in the Boat. I do need to see those boys.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  I did never see The Boys in the Boat.

• 59:56David Sims?

  The Tender Bar was one of those things where I'm like, hey, you got to a C minus. Like.

• 1:00:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00David Sims?

  This, you're, something's happening where you're improving a little. That movie was watchable.

• 1:00:04Griffin Newman?

  But Affleck.

• 1:00:05David Sims?

  I assume Boys in the Boat is similar.

• 1:00:06Griffin Newman?

  Affleck is throwing smokers.

• 1:00:07David Sims?

  He's really good in that.

• 1:00:08Griffin Newman?

  In Tender Bar, and you're like.

• 1:00:10Speaker 03

  That's what he does.

• 1:00:10Griffin Newman?

  He'd be getting an Oscar nomination if this movie weren't directed by George Clooney.

• 1:00:14David Sims?

  Possibly. And also, it was one of those, you know, pandemic movies that went right to streaming where it's like, you're not gonna.

• 1:00:20Griffin Newman?

  But Affleck's great in it.

• 1:00:21Speaker 03

  I remember the year that Suburban Con was at TIFF, and David, you talked to Clooney then, because I think he was trying to go at me like, look, I'm George Clooney, I directed a movie.

• 1:00:29David Sims?

  No, but it was like the pre-release apology, let me explain.

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  Basically, they're like trying to like tell you why his movie actually isn't that bad.

• 1:00:35Griffin Newman?

  It is one of my favorite, my single favorite things that came out in the Sony hacks, was his email to Amy Pascal after the first completed screening of Monuments Men.

• 1:00:48David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:00:48Griffin Newman?

  Where he's like, Amy, what can I say? Sometimes you miss. I'm sorry, you gave me a bunch of money, you entrusted me, sometimes the elements just don't come together. We're all embarrassed by this, and we're gonna hold our heads high and march forward. And you're like, he fucked up Monuments Men? And when that movie was announced on paper, you were like unquestionable B minus.

• 1:01:07David Sims?

  It's such a sleepy movie. Like, that one at least made money. Shockingly, made money.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  Well, because I had to march was right before that, and that movie was, was that a B minus? I don't remember it that well. It felt like we received an okay.

• 1:01:19David Sims?

  I despise that movie. He was literally nominated for an Academy Award for writing it.

• 1:01:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24David Sims?

  One of the most charitable Oscar nominations I've ever seen. It was charitably treated like a B minus when it's more of a C plus.

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31David Sims?

  It is an F. That movie is really rancid.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Would you like it now, having seen Midnight Sky and Riverdale? Okay.

• 1:01:38David Sims?

  I'd have March is worse because it like really thinks it's smart. Like, and it's like, we are, this is a really, really sophisticated political thriller. And it's like, really, it's got kind of nasty. It's a bad, bad movie. Okay.

• 1:01:49Griffin Newman?

  If anything, we were maybe a little kinder to it in the moment because you were like, look, Leatherheads was a mistake.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:55Griffin Newman?

  He's getting back to the kind of thing he should be making.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  Well, because he was on Good Night and Good Luck for such a long time, but being like, look, that movie worked.

• 1:02:01Griffin Newman?

  It's not as good as Good Night and Good Luck, but he's back in his area.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  Yep, yep, yep.

• 1:02:05Griffin Newman?

  And now you're just like, the guy lost it and he was never getting it back.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  He got a lot. I mean, for him to say-

• 1:02:10David Sims?

  Because Leatherheads in 2008-

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  It's a terrible movie. I saw that movie.

• 1:02:13David Sims?

  But it's also that, you know, the occasional hail Mary, you see someone throw of like, can we do kind of a Preston Sturgis?

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, like you're throwing a football as you-

• 1:02:21David Sims?

  And like Leatherheads also is bad.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:24David Sims?

  But beyond it being bad, it's like, also, even if you make a good one, audiences are mostly just gonna be like, eh, I don't want this.

• 1:02:31Griffin Newman?

  Your old timey foosball love triangle.

• 1:02:36David Sims?

  I'm just doing this kind of like, eh, take the ball. Come on, you want it? Come on.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  And John Krasinski got to continue being a movie star after that, despite that.

• 1:02:44Griffin Newman?

  It feels like Clooney was one of the big people pushing the Krasinski project for a long time.

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  I think so. Well, he's a, he's a voice in If. I'm looking at his IMDB. I forgot all about that.

• 1:02:52David Sims?

  I think Krasinski's really good at making friends. I'm not saying Krasinski has no talent, but he's really, because I hear a lot about really respected people who love John Krasinski. And I'm always like, really? But I think he's a nice, you know?

• 1:03:05Griffin Newman?

  10, 15 years of Damon and Clooney being like, we're telling you Krasinski is the next one of us.

• 1:03:11Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:11Griffin Newman?

  And it seems going a long way.

• 1:03:14Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes, we're writing movies with him.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Griffin Newman?

  We're casting him. We think he's got the goods to be a multi-tool player. Um, If, I just want to call out the single greatest movie to play in Cinematrix.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  Oh, because everybody's in it.

• 1:03:27Griffin Newman?

  Because it has twenty A-list voice actors with one sentence.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:32Griffin Newman?

  I just, I implore all of our listeners.

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:35Griffin Newman?

  To look up the character posters for If.

• 1:03:38David Sims?

  There's like forty of them.

• 1:03:39Griffin Newman?

  That's all you need to memorize. It's just the character posters.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, because there's just that one scene where I have seen the motion picture If, I saw it in theaters. Uh, and they all just come in for a hot second, or Clooney might be in like the post credits. So no, it's Brad Pitt, who shows up at the very, very end as like a silent character.

• 1:03:52Griffin Newman?

  But you, you play a Pitt Damon?

• 1:03:54David Sims?

  Clooney's a spaceman.

• 1:03:55Griffin Newman?

  Or Clooney.

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:56Griffin Newman?

  If on Cinematrix, you're guaranteed one, if not zero percent.

• 1:04:02David Sims?

  Yeah, I gotta get back into Cinematrix. I've let it fall off. So, but Clooney, what's interesting about Clooney is I, he just had that run that I just shouted out, right? The, the sort of late nineties, early two thousands, he did it after, of course, being a star on the biggest TV show in America, which is, you know, no, not chocolate flavor either. And then it's like Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, which is a, you know, a niche movie. It's pretty good. Solaris, which is a huge bomb.

• 1:04:29Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:04:30David Sims?

  And is a masterpiece, according to like eight people, one of whom is me.

• 1:04:36David Sims?

  Intolerable Cruelty, Ocean's Twelve.

• 1:04:41David Sims?

  And then like, one year later, he does Good Night and Good Luck in Syriana and wins the Oscar.

• 1:04:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:46David Sims?

  And that's one of those things of like, okay, good job.

• 1:04:51Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:04:52David Sims?

  You won an Oscar.

• 1:04:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:04:54David Sims?

  You gave an, a fatuous speech that everyone kind of made fun of, but like you won an Oscar.

• 1:04:57Griffin Newman?

  Right, smuggler.

• 1:04:58David Sims?

  But doesn't it kind of feel like it's like over?

• 1:05:02Griffin Newman?

  A little bit?

• 1:05:02David Sims?

  Right there? Like, it's like, he still makes Ocean's Thirteen, Michael Clayton, he makes good movies.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Michael Clayton is a big asterisk.

• 1:05:10David Sims?

  But it's a new era.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  I see, I see.

• 1:05:12David Sims?

  It's like, now it's like gray hair Clooney.

• 1:05:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:14David Sims?

  Like, he's no long, he's already kind of gone away from whatever this little era was, the out of sight to sort of intolerable.

• 1:05:22Griffin Newman?

  I think what next, the next era is, uh, it's Descendants, uh, Up in the Air.

• 1:05:29Speaker 03

  Gravity.

• 1:05:30Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Gravity.

• 1:05:31David Sims?

  The American, which he's good in.

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  I remember that release.

• 1:05:35David Sims?

  Burn After Reading, obviously, Michael Clayton.

• 1:05:37Griffin Newman?

  The big three for me, the, the three best actor nominations of Michael Clayton, um, Up in the Air and Descendants are like, he cut his quote to nothing.

• 1:05:47Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:48Griffin Newman?

  He worked with a younger or rising auteur.

• 1:05:52David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:05:52Griffin Newman?

  And he like pushed the movie to like best picture, best director status, got a best actor nomination.

• 1:05:58David Sims?

  He did it three times.

• 1:05:58Griffin Newman?

  All three times, people were like, is he gonna win a second acting Oscar? Cause he was sort of so in his movie star pocket.

• 1:06:05David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:06:05Griffin Newman?

  And all three of those movies become like crossover.

• 1:06:08David Sims?

  Cable classics.

• 1:06:09Griffin Newman?

  Middlebrow hits.

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:06:10Griffin Newman?

  But also like Up in the Air, 80 Domestic Descendants, like 70 Domestic.

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:06:15Griffin Newman?

  Michael Clayton, 60 Domestic. It was like, he is willing to like, cut his quote to like $2 million and make a movie a crossover. That felt like a kind of good period for him.

• 1:06:25David Sims?

  It's, but it's like, it's a somewhat distinct era. Don't you think like it's distinct from that first one?

• 1:06:29Griffin Newman?

  And it's almost like.

• 1:06:30David Sims?

  I feel like it ends with like Tomorrowland.

• 1:06:32Griffin Newman?

  I would agree.

• 1:06:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:33Griffin Newman?

  And I'd say, which is like him trying to make a more traditional tent hole again.

• 1:06:38David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:06:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, cause Money Monster coming out the same year as Hail Caesar.

• 1:06:41David Sims?

  Hail Caesar, Money Monster is.

• 1:06:42Speaker 03

  It just doesn't exist.

• 1:06:43David Sims?

  That's the true epilogue.

• 1:06:44Griffin Newman?

  But like Hail Caesar, Gravity, those are like, sort of like, I'll do a supporting role to help out a project kind of things.

• 1:06:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:06:50Griffin Newman?

  But you're right that all of these roles are now like kind of post-modern Clooney movie star persona where he's playing the sad, over the hill version of himself.

• 1:06:59Speaker 03

  The totem you build the movie around, being like, this movie is aware of his star persona, it has to exist to make this movie. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:05Griffin Newman?

  We're like showing that maybe this guy's kind of broken inside.

• 1:07:07David Sims?

  Doesn't Casamigos kind of weigh into this? No, I have exactly for you. In 2013. No, I'm gonna tell you exactly what happened. Hail Caesar, Money Monster, 2016.

• 1:07:16Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:17David Sims?

  He sold the company. Casamigos, well, tequila operation he has going on with his buddy. They ride motorcycles.

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  House of friends.

• 1:07:25David Sims?

  Wear jackets. In 2017, I interview him. It's sold, or you said, okay. He sold it in 2017. I interviewed him in 2017 for Suburbicon. And he says, very blankly, like, I have more money than God. Like, I mean, he doesn't say exactly that, but he's basically like, from now on, if I am in something, or if I'm making something, it is only because I'm interested in it. I have, Hollywood can give me nothing, like money wise. I have so much money.

• 1:07:53Griffin Newman?

  You look at the CD from that point on, you're like, huh, so you were exclusively interested in boring dog shit?

• 1:07:58David Sims?

  Shitty taste, huh? But like, it truly is, he's basically, and I appreciate, in theory, because all the movies he made are, you know, not franchise movies, he's making original stuff, like yada, you know, it's like, in theory, I'm like, cool, thank you, good job. But it's just, they're all bad. Is he a blank check director? Sure. The worst kind.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  You guys are gonna have a great time on that series.

• 1:08:21David Sims?

  The one who makes bad movies.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  Are you aware that he was in a limited series version of Catch 22?

• 1:08:25David Sims?

  Of course he is.

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  That doesn't sound right. That can't be right.

• 1:08:27David Sims?

  He directed the entire thing. He went to every streamer, because that was Hulu.

• 1:08:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:31David Sims?

  And then Midnight Sky was Netflix. Tender Bar was Amazon.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:08:35David Sims?

  And I swear there's an Apple one in there too.

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  Boys.

• 1:08:37Griffin Newman?

  Wolves. Boys in the Boat was Amazon.

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  Amazon.

• 1:08:40David Sims?

  Yes, that was also Amazon. Like, he just

• 1:08:42Griffin Newman?

  He went to them.

• 1:08:42David Sims?

  hopped around the streamers, collecting bags of money to give them C plus, you know, C plus. Everybody, take your C plus.

• 1:08:48Griffin Newman?

  Catch 22 was him and Grant Haslaw wrote and directed, and he was going to play the lead until the last second he decided he was too old, so he cast Christopher Abbott.

• 1:08:56David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:08:56Griffin Newman?

  And he plays

• 1:08:57David Sims?

  Shai Skov. He plays a smaller role.

• 1:08:59Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:09:00David Sims?

  Um, but, you know, big cat, you know, Kyle Chandler and Louis Pullman and, you know, lots of

• 1:09:04Griffin Newman?

  Doesn't exist. It's gonna happen.

• 1:09:06David Sims?

  And I, look, if I'm Clooney, I can be like, well, the pandemic, you know, like, you can sort of, but it's like, not just the pandemic. You have, he's a smart guy. When I interviewed him, he's so smart.

• 1:09:17Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:18David Sims?

  He's married to this, like, you know, genius. He's like political, yada yada. But like, I'm like, yeah, but he's kind of middlebrow. Like

• 1:09:24Griffin Newman?

  He is.

• 1:09:25David Sims?

  And it's like, when he was picking your Up in the Airs, your Descend, those are middlebrow movies.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30David Sims?

  Even Michael Clayton, they're just like, really good ones. I mean, Descendants is just okay, and Up in the Air

• 1:09:35Griffin Newman?

  He was making like incredible, intelligent, adult popcorn.

• 1:09:39David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:40Griffin Newman?

  And then suddenly, it's like he's making unseasoned vegetables every time.

• 1:09:45David Sims?

  Yes. He's just boiling some broccoli.

• 1:09:47Griffin Newman?

  But like puree. He's like pureeing boiled

• 1:09:51Speaker 03

  So like, does he have bad taste? Cause he can't, cause he works with so many comedians.

• 1:09:56David Sims?

  Medium taste.

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  I guess so.

• 1:09:57David Sims?

  And then he's, yes, he's smart enough. I, and look, I don't know. I have great taste, in my opinion.

• 1:10:03Speaker 03

  Can you direct, can you direct Boys in the Boat better?

• 1:10:05David Sims?

  No, but I'm saying like, and if you're like, here, you have unlimited money and clout, David, what do you want to make? I'd probably make a bunch of dog shit. I'm not that, like, you have to be a certain kind of person. And I do think pressure helps.

• 1:10:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:10:16David Sims?

  You know, like, it's better to be under pressure. Clooney's under no pressure. So like, that's, that's probably kind of bad in a way.

• 1:10:23Griffin Newman?

  Let's also call out, on top of the fucking Casamigos money.

• 1:10:27David Sims?

  Yeah. He's also already rich, we should point out.

• 1:10:30Griffin Newman?

  We're already rich, but also Gravity. The FX budget was so huge on that movie, and it was developed to be Angelina Jolie and Robert Downey Jr. And they both drop out late.

• 1:10:41David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:10:41Griffin Newman?

  And when he goes to Bullock and Clooney, he's like, I can't offer you money because the money's all on screen. You both get back end. I believe Clooney got tens of millions of dollars for that movie.

• 1:10:52David Sims?

  He made a ton of money for that movie.

• 1:10:53Griffin Newman?

  Sandra Bullock made like 100 million dollars on Gravity.

• 1:10:56Speaker 03

  I hope she made more, yeah.

• 1:10:56David Sims?

  Well, I mean Sandra Bullock made, again, the kind of money where you're like, huh, she just kind of stopped making movies, huh? Like, because she just doesn't know.

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  That's always what I want to happen, for especially for actresses.

• 1:11:04Griffin Newman?

  I truly think she made 100.

• 1:11:08Griffin Newman?

  I think she did.

• 1:11:09David Sims?

  I mean, it was a huge hit.

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  How much money did the movie make?

• 1:11:11David Sims?

  It made like 750 million thousand.

• 1:11:13Speaker 04

  How about The Moon?

• 1:11:15Griffin Newman?

  The Moon got a lot.

• 1:11:16David Sims?

  The Moon, they had to shoot it at it with a big cannon, the money. They shot a big bag of money at it.

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  It's in orbit around the moon, as we speak.

• 1:11:21Griffin Newman?

  No, it was such a big hit, and because it was seen as so risky, they offered them so much of first dollar.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28David Sims?

  So let's defend intelligent recruits.

• 1:11:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna say.

• 1:11:35Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:11:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:35Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:11:52David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:11:54Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:12:16David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows, of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:12:28Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:12:37David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:12:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:12:40David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:12:47Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:13:01David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:13:03Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:13:06David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:13:21Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

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• 1:13:56Speaker 06

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• 1:14:11Griffin Newman?

  So we go, Jeffrey Rush, extended sequence, and then we go to Edward Herman, who loves...

• 1:14:16David Sims?

  Trains.

• 1:14:16Speaker 03

  Loves trains.

• 1:14:17David Sims?

  Do we think he has a full, like, he has to, the trains have to be involved for him to get it up? There's this sort of like quiet acknowledgement of like trains are involved with sex.

• 1:14:27Griffin Newman?

  I mean, what's his line he says to Clooney where it's like, she lets me be myself?

• 1:14:31Speaker 03

  Yes. Oh, he's so happy about it, too.

• 1:14:32David Sims?

  God, he's so funny.

• 1:14:33Speaker 03

  But there's weird sex stuff before that, too, because you see Clooney in the courtroom with the, like, the woman who's like, he built devices with my vacuum cleaner.

• 1:14:40David Sims?

  That's the separate.

• 1:14:40Speaker 03

  Which is like a preview of Burn After Reading with a sex machine.

• 1:14:43Griffin Newman?

  One of the greatest.

• 1:14:45David Sims?

  I mean...

• 1:14:46Griffin Newman?

  Slow burn bits of all time.

• 1:14:47David Sims?

  But also, that does, it just feels very Coens of like, right, let's cast the most milquetoast middle-aged lady with like big hair and glasses and have her be like, I was his sexual slave, you know, while like Clooney and Paul Adelson are just like bickering with each other.

• 1:15:01Griffin Newman?

  It's also the kind of thing that the Coens love to just like come in on is just like, it's so funny that there's just this fucking whatchamacallit, the like, the typist, the court stenographer.

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. When she comes in later being like, do you want a milk bone? Woof woof or whatever.

• 1:15:16Griffin Newman?

  But there's just like, if that didn't exist, the Coens would create it. That you're like, so you're telling me some disaffected, middle aged woman

• 1:15:22David Sims?

  Read it out, yes.

• 1:15:22Griffin Newman?

  Has to just sit there at a typewriter and type up every insane thing said in a courtroom.

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  I mean, thinking of the woman in The Courtman, this one, I'm thinking of the woman in the, the trailer park in No Country For Old Men. Are they the best at like, middle aged women with dowdy hair, just being

• 1:15:36Griffin Newman?

  Flattened.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  Flairious.

• 1:15:38David Sims?

  It's vital to them.

• 1:15:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:15:39David Sims?

  It's, they're gestalt or whatever.

• 1:15:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's essential to them.

• 1:15:43David Sims?

  Um, but also, I guess they've never made a legal movie before, right? I'm, you know, like, the courtroom is a great venue for them to be silly.

• 1:15:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:15:55David Sims?

  And all of the courtroom scenes in this movie are so funny.

• 1:15:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59David Sims?

  Poetry recitation, objection, you're on a strangling witness, I'm going to allow it. Like, stuff like that, of course.

• 1:16:04Speaker 03

  So broad.

• 1:16:05David Sims?

  Just like this sort of get smart joke of like, heinz the bound cross one espy. And then like, the, the bailiffs keep opening doors and announcing it further and further and further.

• 1:16:15Griffin Newman?

  Let's also call out, Katie.

• 1:16:16David Sims?

  She specifically said a silly man. I love that. Who's that guy?

• 1:16:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, who was that guy?

• 1:16:22Griffin Newman?

  What's his name? Jonathan Hardisty?

• 1:16:24David Sims?

  Uh, yes, you're right. Jonathan Hadery, Hadery.

• 1:16:28Griffin Newman?

  He's the lawyer in fucking Margaret.

• 1:16:31Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:16:31Griffin Newman?

  He's the guy who runs all the prisons, the for-profit prison monger in Veep.

• 1:16:36David Sims?

  Right, yeah, he's did a bunch of Veeps.

• 1:16:38Griffin Newman?

  Daughter is Mary Holland, who Tim Simons gets hooked up with.

• 1:16:41Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:16:42Griffin Newman?

  He's like in a thousand things.

• 1:16:44David Sims?

  Right, he's got a ton of credits.

• 1:16:45Griffin Newman?

  He looks so different in this than everything else that I always forget it's him. Cause he's usually

• 1:16:49David Sims?

  But he's got the eyes. He always has those eyes, but you're right, he's

• 1:16:52Griffin Newman?

  He usually plays a kind of like rumpled menshy.

• 1:16:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:16:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:56David Sims?

  He's so fucking funny in this.

• 1:16:57Griffin Newman?

  He's so good. But Katie, you alluded to this, but the introduction of Clooney is through his teeth, right?

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  Oh my god, it's so good.

• 1:17:04Griffin Newman?

  That were hard truths to him

• 1:17:05David Sims?

  Right, because like, oh brother, it's his hair, here it's his teeth.

• 1:17:08Griffin Newman?

  The bleaching, right? I just like this immediate, like, we're dealing with the ultimate movie star.

• 1:17:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:15Griffin Newman?

  And we're starting out by showing you how the sausage get made.

• 1:17:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:19Griffin Newman?

  Gets made of like, how much work goes into making this guy look like this?

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  And it helps balance the scales of the women and the plastic Surgery, I think, because I do like the way that it gets at like rich Hollywood people like that. That that part of it like works less well to me like the women sitting by the pool and talking about their liposuction and stuff like that like. That again feels more broad and Cohen'sy, but having that emphasis on Clooney, I think helps balance it out and like. The pan to his like movie star smile and the score, you know, swells as he's standing at the desk like it. It brings it back to being something more than just cynical.

• 1:17:47Griffin Newman?

  Using suspicious minds into the sport.

• 1:17:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's so good.

• 1:17:51Griffin Newman?

  It's so good and it also it's just like. It it gives you a drum roll. So when you get to the full reveal of Clooney's full face, because we're seeing him in the in the chair first. Then we're seeing him in the car with the reflections that you're only seeing the teeth and nothing else. And you're just seeing him test out the teeth in the rear view mirror and everything. It feels so satisfying when you're getting the full Clooney burst, but I also like. That it's kind of a everyone wants to be Clark Gable, even me thing.

• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:18Griffin Newman?

  Of like this guy is a construction. These people are constructions.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:18:22Griffin Newman?

  No one is just like this.

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:24Griffin Newman?

  And these people are very caught up in their reputation and their mythology and the Massey prenup and all these things.

• 1:18:31Griffin Newman?

  And then we're just seeing him, right, he's he's an ultimate conqueror, but he's so bored. He can barely get it up for this stuff anymore.

• 1:18:37David Sims?

  He's uh torn down his house twice just for fun.

• 1:18:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:18:41David Sims?

  Like, right.

• 1:18:42Speaker 03

  We've never seen his house, do we?

• 1:18:43David Sims?

  He has a tab at the Mercedes dealership. Um, we don't think we ever see his house.

• 1:18:48Speaker 03

  We know it's at the at the end. That's where the house invasion is because she's in his house, isn't she?

• 1:18:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And you see his tennis court.

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:18:54David Sims?

  But like he's a person with no interests. He's only good at this.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, that's what I mean.

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  He's created, of course, the an unbreakable prenup agreement that is like legally profound.

• 1:19:06Griffin Newman?

  Which I just think is like a perfect screwball thing of just like you come up with the idea of something that is so important and so huge. That you will never break down and explain.

• 1:19:15David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:19:15Griffin Newman?

  They never get into what makes the Massey prenup so good.

• 1:19:18Speaker 03

  If you tear a piece of paper, does that render it legally invalid?

• 1:19:21David Sims?

  In this movie, it does.

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  To me, if that's real.

• 1:19:23David Sims?

  But that's why Richard Jenkins putting it all in the bar in the briefcase and running away is really funny. You're like, he's gonna tape it up.

• 1:19:31Griffin Newman?

  The Massey prenup, but then also we should acknowledge Edward Herman is busted by a camera crew led by Gus Patch.

• 1:19:36David Sims?

  Gus Patch, played by Cedric the Entertainer, who's like firmly in his early post uh.

• 1:19:42Griffin Newman?

  Barber shop.

• 1:19:43David Sims?

  Shop, you know, kind of original Kings of Comedy where it's just like, get this guy in movies. 10 minutes of Cedric, please.

• 1:19:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:19:49David Sims?

  Like.

• 1:19:49Speaker 03

  He's gonna nail your ass.

• 1:19:50David Sims?

  And like, right, you're ordering at the and then you're like. And you know what? Ten minutes of Cedric. Have him in her.

• 1:19:55Griffin Newman?

  Gus Patch likes doing one thing.

• 1:19:57David Sims?

  Nail an ass. He sees her ass and he nails it.

• 1:19:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:20:00Speaker 04

  Man, I would have kicked his ass if he busted in on me.

• 1:20:03Griffin Newman?

  You would have nailed his ass for trying to nail your ass?

• 1:20:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would have took that camera and I would have fucking nailed his ass with it.

• 1:20:09David Sims?

  I do love, this is the only period where it would still be like an over the shoulder.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:15David Sims?

  It's less fun if it's a stupid cellphone.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  And it needs that huge light blaring on that poor woman in her underwear.

• 1:20:21Griffin Newman?

  But you're right, it is a thing that I think people couldn't verbalize at the time where they were like, how can this movie exist in a modern reality TV landscape, but yet everyone is talking like they are in the Great Depression?

• 1:20:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, which is makes perfect, like, it's fine if you want to set that up, but like getting people to actually buy into it without actually seeing it is the hard part.

• 1:20:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:20:41David Sims?

  So, uh, yes, he successfully defends Rex Rex Roth. Rex Rex Roth. Rex?

• 1:20:47Speaker 03

  Rex Rex Roth. Perfect name.

• 1:20:49David Sims?

  This is also Edward Herman, of course, is like right in the middle of his sweetie run on Gilmore Girls. So it's fun to see him be a rascal.

• 1:20:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:57David Sims?

  And, um, even though Marilyn, Catherine Zeta-Jones is ostensibly in the right, basically, we've got The Great Showdown with Richard Jenkins, uh, that, you know, that's the, um,

• 1:21:08Speaker 03

  Kirshner's in Kentucky.

• 1:21:08David Sims?

  Kirshner, Kirshner's in Kentucky. Are you nuts? Have you forgotten Kirshner?

• 1:21:11Griffin Newman?

  This was the scene, I'd watched the movie a couple of days ago and my girlfriend was disappointed because she was like, oh, I've never seen that one. And I was like, I just watched it. Can I just show you the one scene?

• 1:21:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 1:21:21Griffin Newman?

  To like, show you the thing that no one gets. And I think you'll lock into it immediately. And I just showed her this one scene and it's just like, a three-minute symphony of dialogue?

• 1:21:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:21:31Griffin Newman?

  It is basically just two, two shots.

• 1:21:34David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:21:34Griffin Newman?

  Reverse.

• 1:21:35David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:21:35Griffin Newman?

  Right? Around a table, just on fire.

• 1:21:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:39Griffin Newman?

  Just like precision Swiss watch timing and the overlapping threads that keep circling back.

• 1:21:45Speaker 03

  The way that it implies the relationship between Jenkins and Clooney, where it's like, oh, sorry about the award or whatever it was. And he's like taunting him over the pastry. He's like, there's so much history between those two guys.

• 1:21:54Griffin Newman?

  He just knows exactly how to like cuck him.

• 1:21:57David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:21:57Griffin Newman?

  And make him have to be on his backboard in defensive.

• 1:22:00David Sims?

  So good at the like, I mean, you know, he's just perfect at that.

• 1:22:03Griffin Newman?

  It is why this performance is incredible.

• 1:22:05David Sims?

  It's not like early in Richard Jenkins's career, obviously, he's been working for so long.

• 1:22:10Griffin Newman?

  The 2000s are when Hollywood start finally giving him his flowers.

• 1:22:13Speaker 03

  He's on Six Feet Under at this point.

• 1:22:15David Sims?

  Yes, but he was, he was like, you know, a spark plug in that show.

• 1:22:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:19David Sims?

  Because he was dead. Spoiler alert for the opening seconds of Six Feet Under.

• 1:22:23Speaker 03

  Very first scene.

• 1:22:24David Sims?

  But he dies.

• 1:22:25Griffin Newman?

  But he comes back a lot in the early seasons.

• 1:22:26David Sims?

  And he'll come in and like be sarcastic and all that. And like, he's in Man Who Wasn't There, also as a lawyer, from what I remember. We haven't done that episode yet. And the Coens love him. And I remember they gave some interview where he like, if you need like a sort of milquetoast.

• 1:22:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:42David Sims?

  Fussy guy like Richard Jenkins.

• 1:22:44Griffin Newman?

  Farrelly Brothers also used him a lot. He's in all of their.

• 1:22:47David Sims?

  He's in Me, Myself and Irene. He's in Something About Mary, a tiny role.

• 1:22:51Griffin Newman?

  He's really good in Hall Pass. He plays a pickup artist in Hall Pass.

• 1:22:55David Sims?

  That sounds good. I've never seen Hall Pass.

• 1:22:57Griffin Newman?

  Jenkins with like a fedora and like Ed Hardy shirts.

• 1:22:59Speaker 03

  How many Coens is he in? He's in Burn After Reading after this.

• 1:23:03David Sims?

  Oh, he's in Burn After Reading. Right. So three? I think that's it.

• 1:23:06Griffin Newman?

  That's his.

• 1:23:07Speaker 03

  They put a found more room for him? Come on.

• 1:23:08Griffin Newman?

  That's his year. The Burn After Reading, Visitor.

• 1:23:11Speaker 03

  Is that the same year as the Visitor? Yeah.

• 1:23:12Griffin Newman?

  Step Brothers are all the same year.

• 1:23:15David Sims?

  Step Brothers is obviously his peak and American acting's peak.

• 1:23:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:23:19David Sims?

  Would you say?

• 1:23:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:20David Sims?

  I don't give a fuck is like, like you can use that anytime.

• 1:23:25Griffin Newman?

  But it's all the fucking dinosaur model.

• 1:23:28David Sims?

  Obviously, the dinosaur stuff at the end is amazing.

• 1:23:30Griffin Newman?

  Which is entirely improvised. Do you know that?

• 1:23:32David Sims?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:23:33Griffin Newman?

  That Michaela's just like, just come up with something.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:35Griffin Newman?

  There's the moment where he starts doing the T-Rex arms and he looks down at them as if like remembering what he's lost.

• 1:23:43David Sims?

  Do you know what we're talking about, Ben? I haven't seen the, the movie in a while, but. He just tells the boys at the end, like, I also had dreams once I wanted to be a dinosaur.

• 1:23:52Griffin Newman?

  He spends the whole movie telling them to grow up.

• 1:23:54David Sims?

  I do.

• 1:23:55Griffin Newman?

  He spends the whole movie being like, you have to be adult, you have to get a job, you have to give responsibility. At the end of the movie, the Catalina Wine Mixer, they're like both doing jobs and they're like talking about taxes with each other joylessly. And he's just like, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but this is depressing. You guys need to go back to doing what you were doing before. And they were like, Dad, we like, like Roth IRAs, like, come on, like, and then he's just like, no, no. And his big emotional speech about like not losing your flame is that when I was a child, I wanted to be a dinosaur and my parents told me, you can't do that. And I gave up my dreams and I thought someday I'd circle back to being a dinosaur and I never had the chance. And then they just keep going like, what do you mean?

• 1:24:40Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, I was so good at it. I put my arms at my side and I, I would roar and they're like, but you're a human, you can never be a dinosaur. And he's like, that's what I let them convince me. Wow. I mean, that's crazy that he improvised.

• 1:24:53David Sims?

  Rain here is gonna eat your dick, like Kobayashi. Step Brothers is still good, right?

• 1:25:00Griffin Newman?

  It's a masterpiece.

• 1:25:00David Sims?

  There's no problem with Step Brothers.

• 1:25:01Griffin Newman?

  No, it's five stars.

• 1:25:03David Sims?

  The whole, the best Jenkins apart from shut the fuck up is, is that it? Or when, when's it when John C. Riley just does the long monologue about how Mary Steenburgen is gonna wanna fuck him?

• 1:25:13Griffin Newman?

  That's like the introduction of those characters. From my chest cubes down to my ball throw and then I think he breaks a plate.

• 1:25:23Speaker 03

  You know what movie Rich Jenkins in?

• 1:25:25Griffin Newman?

  What's up?

• 1:25:26Speaker 03

  He's an if, just putting that out there.

• 1:25:29Griffin Newman?

  He plays a little wooden artist model version of himself.

• 1:25:33David Sims?

  He hasn't been in a movie, excepting his voice role in If, since Nightmare Alley, which he's very good in. And I don't, I mean.

• 1:25:41Griffin Newman?

  Has he done like four shitty TV shows?

• 1:25:43David Sims?

  He played like Jeffrey Dahmer's dad in.

• 1:25:45Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 1:25:46David Sims?

  The Jeffrey Dahmer thing.

• 1:25:47Griffin Newman?

  Thank God.

• 1:25:49David Sims?

  And now he's in the Ed Brubaker.

• 1:25:52Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Criminal.

• 1:25:52David Sims?

  Adaptation of Criminal.

• 1:25:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:54David Sims?

  Which I'm very excited for.

• 1:25:55Griffin Newman?

  Ed Brubaker, friend of the show, inexplicably, one of those people who's so important to David and I, who is now a listener and texts with us. But in whatever recent, Cohen's episode, we were saying, where's Jenkins been? And he's like.

• 1:26:07David Sims?

  He's crushing on Criminal.

• 1:26:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:26:09David Sims?

  Uh, which is gonna be on, uh, Amazon, I think, I'm Prime Video. But, uh, let's get, I want him back. I need more Jenkins in my life.

• 1:26:17Speaker 03

  Waiting him back.

• 1:26:17David Sims?

  And, uh, you know, he introduced. Divine Joy Randolph at the critic's circle, the year she won, which was what 2024? When was that?

• 1:26:25Speaker 03

  Uh, three.

• 1:26:26David Sims?

  Three, uh, for holdovers, because they did some tiny movie together and no one ever saw.

• 1:26:30Speaker 03

  Right. You guys have talked about this on air. I've heard you talk about this in another episode.

• 1:26:34David Sims?

  I never.

• 1:26:34Speaker 03

  Is this, this is the first, why did you guys talk about Richard Jenkins already? Because logically, this is the first Coens he was in. I have no idea why he's come up before.

• 1:26:41Griffin Newman?

  I don't know. He came up recently. Whatever.

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, whatever.

• 1:26:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:44David Sims?

  Um, so, uh, yeah, so all that, basically what happens within Miles, before he destroys Mile, uh, Marilyn in the courtroom, they go out to dinner.

• 1:26:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, I just, I'm sorry to finish giving Richard Jenkins his flowers. The thing that's so beautiful about that scene that all rests on Jenkins' shoulders is how quickly he goes from kind of like begrudgingly accepting the way that Clooney bites him down to at the end being so emotionally overcome with like, I'm gonna take my briefcase and go home. Like that Clooney's destroyed his spirits.

• 1:27:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:27:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:27:20David Sims?

  Um, but, um, uh, Clooney asked Ada Jones out to dinner, sort of as a kind of like, again, extension of his boredom of like, maybe I just take her out to dinner. Like, if she's, you know, he like, it's such an ethical, what, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:27:35Speaker 03

  Again, legally, is he allowed to do this? I have that question, but who cares?

• 1:27:38Griffin Newman?

  I do think there's like a little bit of like Ethan Hunt, Elsa Faust in this movie where it's just like they immediately lock eyes.

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  Game recognize game.

• 1:27:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. We're the only two people on the planet who operate at this level.

• 1:27:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, the way they order wine together is like a ratatouille dialogue thing is gorgeous.

• 1:27:54David Sims?

  Um, so, um, their dinner scene is nice. I get, this is where I, I'm sorry, Catherine. I think she's like, good. I wish someone was amazing in this role.

• 1:28:07Griffin Newman?

  Okay. So can I?

• 1:28:07David Sims?

  Cause Clooney is elite in this.

• 1:28:09Griffin Newman?

  Can I give my take?

• 1:28:10David Sims?

  Yeah. What's your take?

• 1:28:10Griffin Newman?

  After watching this movie, I-

• 1:28:12David Sims?

  And is there a, right, a better?

• 1:28:14Griffin Newman?

  I was like, I, I really want to watch Lady Eve again.

• 1:28:17David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:28:17Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:28:18Griffin Newman?

  Because it's not like this is like a quiet remake of Lady Eve, but I do think it pulls a lot of things from Lady Eve.

• 1:28:23David Sims?

  Obviously, for fans who don't know the Lady Eve, it's one of the better movies ever made.

• 1:28:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:28:28David Sims?

  Barbara Stanwyck and Henry Fonda, the, the, Preston Surges movies.

• 1:28:32Griffin Newman?

  And it's a movie about an elite con artist, Card Sharp, who multiple times romances the heir to a, an ale fortune. There's a lot of difference between beer and ale. And it's a similar movie where there's this kind of like she keeps running different cons on him. Based on who has the power in the situation. And you're, part of the mystery of the movie is like, when are their real feelings and when are they not? And what's motivating what? And when is it just about money and whatever? But that movie is all basically told from her perspective. Even though you meet him first.

• 1:29:08David Sims?

  No, he's the mark.

• 1:29:09Griffin Newman?

  You're getting her doing the kind of Ocean style, here's what I'm going to do. And you have the scenes where she's going back to her father and explaining what's changing in her mind. So you're not sure if she's gonna be able to pull it off, but the fun is her outlining what her intentions or her plans are. And how things get in the way. In this movie, the character is kind of a sphinx. It's clearly what they're sort of enjoying is that you're watching the film. And it has these gaps where you're like, wait, what just happened? Why do we just cut ahead six months?

• 1:29:37David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, I guess.

• 1:29:38Griffin Newman?

  And that you need to untangle it after the fact. Only at the end do you realize everything she's done.

• 1:29:42David Sims?

  Right, they're hiding the movie's biggest twist, which they wanna hide. Cause it's a twist of like when she reappears with Billy Bob Thornton.

• 1:29:50Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:29:50David Sims?

  That's a total con.

• 1:29:51Speaker 03

  We have not even brought up yet.

• 1:29:52David Sims?

  Right, well, we're gonna get to that.

• 1:29:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:29:54David Sims?

  But um, I guess that's, but I just, okay.

• 1:29:56Griffin Newman?

  But I think it means that there's not that much she can play. It's obvious to say, well, isn't the best version of this Julia Roberts? Cause you just imagine the whole movie having the, uh, lionethy.

• 1:30:07David Sims?

  And she's sassy.

• 1:30:08Griffin Newman?

  Energy, right?

• 1:30:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:10Griffin Newman?

  You see this scene of them at the dinner table together and you imagine.

• 1:30:13Speaker 03

  That scene in Ocean's Eleven.

• 1:30:14Griffin Newman?

  Which is just perfect.

• 1:30:15David Sims?

  Who are the big other kind of, you know, elite female stars who could, right? I'm just trying to think of like.

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  Okay, not to conjure leatherheads again, but could Renee Zellweger have done it?

• 1:30:24Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:30:25Speaker 03

  No, you don't think so?

• 1:30:26David Sims?

  I, I don't think she's a good actress.

• 1:30:28Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting, wow.

• 1:30:29David Sims?

  And she's my big problem with Down with Love.

• 1:30:30Griffin Newman?

  See, I love her in Down with Love.

• 1:30:32David Sims?

  I do not.

• 1:30:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, she couldn't have done both, I guess. She kinda have to pick one of the other.

• 1:30:35David Sims?

  Um, but obviously she and Clooney, right, they did try at chemistry later.

• 1:30:42Griffin Newman?

  He's already done a Julia movie, he's already done Michelle Pfeiffer, someone who could have done this.

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  She could have done it.

• 1:30:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:49Griffin Newman?

  Who else is in that?

• 1:30:51David Sims?

  Michelle Pfeiffer makes sense. She's like on the cusp of being a little aged out or whatever, but yes.

• 1:30:56Speaker 03

  I mean, Halle Berry is huge at this point, but I don't think she would have worked in this role.

• 1:31:00Griffin Newman?

  No. Comedy not her strong suit.

• 1:31:02David Sims?

  Oh, no.

• 1:31:02Griffin Newman?

  But you're like, who's in goddess territory is an adult woman? Like, it can't be a girl.

• 1:31:07David Sims?

  Right. It can't be like Scarlett Johansson or whoever the new stars are, like, you know? Um, yeah, I don't know. I, I, you know, sure, Julia. I mean.

• 1:31:16Griffin Newman?

  I, see, I'm just saying, like, if you cast Julia in this, and they obviously have such good chemistry, and they're biting back and forth at each other, I still don't know if Julia makes this part explode, because part of this role in construction is.

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  You don't know what's going on with her.

• 1:31:30Griffin Newman?

  You're not seeing the heart, the hand she's holding until the very end.

• 1:31:34David Sims?

  Julianne Moore?

• 1:31:35Griffin Newman?

  Julianne Moore could have been excellent.

• 1:31:37David Sims?

  She can kind of do everything, right?

• 1:31:38Griffin Newman?

  She could have been excellent. She does her own divorce lawyer rom-com around the same time.

• 1:31:42David Sims?

  Laws of Attraction? Not exactly.

• 1:31:43Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:31:44David Sims?

  Uh, an endorsement of any, uh, for doing comedy, right?

• 1:31:47Griffin Newman?

  I just had the thought while watching this movie, and you miss the fun of the surprise of the complete unraveling at the end and realizing what you didn't realize you've been watching the whole time.

• 1:31:58Speaker 03

  See, Billy Bob Thornton on the soap opera is like a key delight that you don't get if you know what's going on.

• 1:32:03Griffin Newman?

  If the Julia Duffy scenes, which I agree with you, are kind of the broadest and the least interesting parts of the movie, instead had more of a sense of who is this character?

• 1:32:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:12Griffin Newman?

  What is animating her?

• 1:32:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:14Griffin Newman?

  Her planning, and it felt like the movie was more of a tennis match and less. We're seeing it all through Clooney's perspective, and she's unknowable. I think there's a certain degree to which this part, as written, couldn't be played better than it is.

• 1:32:26David Sims?

  Maybe you're right.

• 1:32:27Griffin Newman?

  Because the meat of the role is actually not depicted on screen.

• 1:32:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:31David Sims?

  And it is supposed to be like, right, you're this beautiful Sphinx-like woman, and she's totally good at that.

• 1:32:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:37David Sims?

  And so my suggestion of, uh, um, uh, uh, what about Holly Hunter?

• 1:32:41Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:32:42David Sims?

  Cohen's collaborator. She's older than Clooney by three years.

• 1:32:46Speaker 03

  Wouldn't she work as the like, the like gliding?

• 1:32:49David Sims?

  No, but she is.

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  All right, the one I was gonna throw out.

• 1:32:51Griffin Newman?

  And they're great in Oh Brother Together. They have their back and forth.

• 1:32:54David Sims?

  Bring him back.

• 1:32:55Griffin Newman?

  This is the other thing. You're like, who has he worked with, right? Already at this point?

• 1:32:59David Sims?

  He tends to work well with women.

• 1:33:01Griffin Newman?

  Peacemaker with Kidman? There's a universe in which Kidman could have done this.

• 1:33:04David Sims?

  Yes, Kidman absolutely could have done this. This is an era where she could have done something like this.

• 1:33:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:09David Sims?

  Stepford Wives is around this time or whatever.

• 1:33:11Speaker 03

  This would have been a much better choice than Stepford Wives.

• 1:33:13Griffin Newman?

  But he's basically worked with all the A-listers in his age group.

• 1:33:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. Sandra Bullock could have done it?

• 1:33:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes, he doesn't do that until Gravity.

• 1:33:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:22David Sims?

  Uh, she could have. This is like, she's still a big star. Like, she's not really in her-

• 1:33:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, this continuity isn't too far away from this.

• 1:33:29David Sims?

  But it's definitely, because like by the time she was in Crash, which is a couple of years later, you're kind of like, oh, Sandy Bullock.

• 1:33:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:34Griffin Newman?

  And then she disappears again into Blind Side.

• 1:33:36Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:33:37Griffin Newman?

  And the proposal.

• 1:33:38Speaker 03

  The other one I was gonna throw out is Charlize. I think she could have done it. She wasn't doing comedies then.

• 1:33:43David Sims?

  No, this is the year she does monster. She's not really a proven actor yet.

• 1:33:48Speaker 03

  So she's not big enough yet to hold her own against Clooney?

• 1:33:50David Sims?

  I don't think so.

• 1:33:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 1:33:52David Sims?

  Did Clooney, Clooney never worked with Winslet, did he? I'm looking at like best actress.

• 1:33:56Speaker 03

  I don't know if Winslet could have.

• 1:33:58David Sims?

  I don't think he ever did.

• 1:33:58Speaker 03

  I don't know if she would have worked in this. Yeah.

• 1:34:00David Sims?

  Cameron Diaz.

• 1:34:02Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:34:02David Sims?

  No, I'm not finding an obvious, like, you know.

• 1:34:07Griffin Newman?

  Uma.

• 1:34:08David Sims?

  Yeah, Uma's, look, this is the Kill Bill year.

• 1:34:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:12David Sims?

  Uma's a little in the wilderness too. Kill Bill kind of, you know, is her first big hit in a long time.

• 1:34:17Speaker 03

  How's Uma in comedy like this, though? Like, fast?

• 1:34:20David Sims?

  Uma's a weird one.

• 1:34:21Griffin Newman?

  That's not her strong.

• 1:34:23Speaker 03

  Ben, Ben just said solely Uma and then pulled the mic back away. It's like, that's it. Mic drop.

• 1:34:28Griffin Newman?

  I mean, Blanchett's the one I think could have been interesting, but no one would have considered her in this way.

• 1:34:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's really in the wilderness in this period, right? Like pre-aviator?

• 1:34:36David Sims?

  How dare you? The missing?

• 1:34:37Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, doesn't she, she like breaks out with Elizabeth and then makes like eight terrible movies?

• 1:34:42Griffin Newman?

  This is the, she's fucking it up.

• 1:34:43David Sims?

  I'm obsessed with her prestige run post Elizabeth, pre Oscar. Yes. Where it's truly like- You know, a relief pitcher coming in and throwing like eight wild pitches or whatever. And then, and then suddenly like, you know, we're like, oh, okay. She got it. She got the Oscar.

• 1:34:58Griffin Newman?

  And we've talked about-

• 1:34:59David Sims?

  She was on the straight and narrow, basically.

• 1:35:00Griffin Newman?

  In the same period, Kate Winslet, like two out of every three movies she makes are nothing, and yet none of them stick to her.

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:08Griffin Newman?

  She was kind of Teflon where it's like, we all love Winslet.

• 1:35:10Speaker 03

  Well, she had like three Oscar nominations at this point, I don't think.

• 1:35:13David Sims?

  She would just occasionally, you know, do even an iris and that would be enough to be like, yeah, we still love Kate Winslet if she shows up. And so, yes, nobody thought about the lives of David Gale or the hideous Kinkies. Uh, just to, just to name some movies.

• 1:35:28Speaker 03

  Starring in Titanic probably gets you there too. I don't think Kate Blanchard made anything-

• 1:35:31David Sims?

  Titanic was kind of this film that had lingered in the consciousness in some way.

• 1:35:34Griffin Newman?

  It was big.

• 1:35:35David Sims?

  I wonder why. Anyway, so he annihilates her in court. So the next sequence is, right, is Clooney.

• 1:35:41Speaker 03

  There is the scene where they go to the diner with Cedric the Entertainer and Paul Upstein orders Baby Field Greens and the waitress, another perfect middle-aged woman said, what did you just call me?

• 1:35:49David Sims?

  What the fuck, what the fuck color would it be?

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  And Clooney orders like an overcooked steak with branch dressing or something like insane.

• 1:35:55Griffin Newman?

  He says, can I get a green style? And she goes, what other color would it be?

• 1:35:57David Sims?

  Baby Field Greens. Uh, who's that?

• 1:36:00Speaker 03

  That's like if Round is funny, like that's perfect, uh, Coen's service worker comedy.

• 1:36:05Griffin Newman?

  Like every line in this movie is funny. It's just like a little kind of like jewelry box.

• 1:36:11David Sims?

  Can I say, and I don't know if you guys agree with this, I didn't, I didn't, uh, announce this yet, but I do think the first half is better than the second half. I do think, it doesn't run out of steam exactly, but the first half where the, the steaks are so defined and Clooney is so on fire and the courtroom scenes are so fun. Whereas the second half where it's a little heavier on the plot twists and the kind of like,

• 1:36:34Speaker 03

  I love the Vegas stuff so, so.

• 1:36:37David Sims?

  It's funny. I'm not mad at it. I'm just saying like-

• 1:36:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I just, okay, so this was another reason I rewatched Lady Eve last night is like, Lady Eve is ostensibly a three act movie.

• 1:36:47David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, you're talking about one of the best movies ever.

• 1:36:49Griffin Newman?

  I know, I know, but I was just like, there's a similar thing going on that's very unorthodox in the year that this movie is coming out, right? Lady Eve is like a three act movie if you actually look at the story. But act one is like 50 minutes long.

• 1:37:02David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:37:02Griffin Newman?

  Act two is like 20 minutes long and act three is like 10 minutes long. And I think that was a thing back in the screwball era where they were just like this kind of diagrammatic- You need to build your three acts and each one needs to be half an hour, right? And it needs to be like this clean.

• 1:37:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:17Griffin Newman?

  They were sort of like, everything is as long as it can justify being while still being entertaining.

• 1:37:22Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:23Griffin Newman?

  And if the boring part of the movie needs to like, you need to get through that faster, then you get through it faster. Or if something more interesting can happen, then there's four acts. Like, who cares, right?

• 1:37:32David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:37:33Griffin Newman?

  The first forty-five minutes of this movie is the dissolution of the marriage to Edward Herman.

• 1:37:38David Sims?

  Right, is, is the, right.

• 1:37:40Griffin Newman?

  Almost half of the film is basically act one.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:44David Sims?

  Um.

• 1:37:44Griffin Newman?

  And so then it's a movie where the acts speed up as they go along.

• 1:37:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, cause Billy Bob Thornton shows up, you're like, oh, this is the rest of the movie. And it's like, not really. He's kind of in and out very quickly.

• 1:37:53David Sims?

  Yeah, that feels, again, sort of like Jenkins of them being like, we just worked with this guy, we loved him, he's so funny for one second in this.

• 1:37:59Griffin Newman?

  It's like a twenty-minute act two.

• 1:38:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:02David Sims?

  Right, but to conclude act one is he, he nails her ass by with the, behinds the, hides the Baron, uh, the Baron Crossbon Espy, who, after he sets her up by having her cry about how much she loves Rex Rex Roth,

• 1:38:15Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:16David Sims?

  Uh, brings in this guy and is basically the guy is like, I, I found her a rich stupid husband.

• 1:38:21Speaker 03

  He's the Tenzing Norgay.

• 1:38:22Griffin Newman?

  Silly man, the Tenzing Norgay.

• 1:38:24David Sims?

  It's very.

• 1:38:25Griffin Newman?

  Just anytime they come up with a good combination of sounds that you can repeat six times.

• 1:38:30Speaker 04

  And we should just ask, does anyone have any bones in the house here?

• 1:38:35Griffin Newman?

  Oh, they want the bones.

• 1:38:37Speaker 03

  The milk bones, the crunchy, for the teeth.

• 1:38:40David Sims?

  Yeah, god. May we, there are no maybes now. May we, but of course.

• 1:38:45Speaker 03

  See, I think he's funny by things up as funnier later, like than the Baron. Like, he's, he's broader than the stuff, than like We Kirk of the Hills or whatever in Vegas.

• 1:38:55David Sims?

  I'm really into like Lumiere from Beauty and the Beast being in any movie. Like, I just like that kind of a guy.

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  With a tiny dog, ideally.

• 1:39:02David Sims?

  With a tiny dog.

• 1:39:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, so you love monuments, man.

• 1:39:05Speaker 04

  Does it have?

• 1:39:05Speaker 03

  Is Jerry Orbach?

• 1:39:06Griffin Newman?

  A pleasure.

• 1:39:08David Sims?

  Oh, uh, Duchamp.

• 1:39:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:10Speaker 03

  Beat Clooney for that Descendants, Oscar.

• 1:39:12Griffin Newman?

  And that was their, uh, their makeup.

• 1:39:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:15David Sims?

  The crazy thing is that he, who did he, there's a crazy one he'd be in there.

• 1:39:19Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Brad Pitt.

• 1:39:20Speaker 03

  Charlie Duffin? Oh, yeah.

• 1:39:21David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 1:39:22David Sims?

  Yeah. Um, anyway, um, so, uh.

• 1:39:27Speaker 03

  So then Billy Bob Thornton shows up.

• 1:39:28David Sims?

  He annihilates Marilyn and then as we, as you say, it's like six months later.

• 1:39:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:33David Sims?

  Right? And it's sort of like he's back to, um, being a nobody.

• 1:39:40Griffin Newman?

  You also.

• 1:39:40David Sims?

  I mean, back to being bored.

• 1:39:41Griffin Newman?

  You end that sequence with her, with Julia Duffy and her, like, girl gang saying like, next time, I gotta, I gotta find a better husband.

• 1:39:50Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:39:51Griffin Newman?

  Without, uh, Klaus.

• 1:39:53Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:54Griffin Newman?

  Without a Berenheims fan, yeah, Espy.

• 1:39:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:56Griffin Newman?

  Right? She's like.

• 1:39:57David Sims?

  She also finds Jeffrey Rush. She has the one scene in the middle there.

• 1:39:59Speaker 03

  She finds him in an alley.

• 1:40:00David Sims?

  She finds him in the alley clutching his trophy.

• 1:40:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes. But basically you see her call the shot of like, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna do it better. And I'm not gonna have a tense ignore gay that he can use to take me down.

• 1:40:11David Sims?

  And you assume.

• 1:40:12Griffin Newman?

  Because she's sort of activated by like, this guy caught me.

• 1:40:15Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:40:15Griffin Newman?

  I need to now get the next point on him.

• 1:40:18David Sims?

  Right. She thought she had the perfect murder. She didn't. So you assume what she's done is this oil baron who's so stupid.

• 1:40:24Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:40:25David Sims?

  Uh, and she like gets the prenup signed with Massey and Massey's like, okay, what's she up to? And then he emotionally tears up the prenup at their ceremony.

• 1:40:34Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:40:35David Sims?

  And Massey's like, okay, she's a genius.

• 1:40:37Speaker 03

  He dips in the barbecue sauce, right? He eats it.

• 1:40:39Griffin Newman?

  The confidence game of she hired me.

• 1:40:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:43Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:40:43David Sims?

  She respects me.

• 1:40:44Griffin Newman?

  The prenup.

• 1:40:45David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:46Griffin Newman?

  I know what she's after. This guy's money. And yet she's hiring me to do everything seemingly.

• 1:40:52David Sims?

  The long con of you think it's your idea to get rid of the prenup, right?

• 1:40:56Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:40:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:57David Sims?

  But of course, the twist is this is all staged, but, but yeah.

• 1:41:00Griffin Newman?

  He's so depressed at the wedding. He sees Billy Bob eat the prenup.

• 1:41:03Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:04Griffin Newman?

  He's just like, she's a genius. That's the moment where I think he truly falls in love with her, where it goes for being a lust. To like, this is the only other genius on this planet.

• 1:41:13Speaker 03

  Well, and when he realizes the thing with the prenup and he says to her the line, like, now that this marriage is winding down while she's standing in her wedding dress, which is so funny.

• 1:41:21Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. It is. Cause he's like, mission accomplished. You got what you wanted.

• 1:41:24Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:41:25Griffin Newman?

  You could divorce him tomorrow.

• 1:41:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:41:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:27Speaker 03

  Uh, somewhere in there before that is where we first meet the like senior partner who has the Living Without Intestines magazine in his waiting room. It's like very hot sucker proxy.

• 1:41:34David Sims?

  But it's also a gag that it feels like gets repeated in Serious Man.

• 1:41:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:41:38David Sims?

  And it's another gag that anytime I showed this to her girlfriend, they would further back up in the couch somehow.

• 1:41:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:41:46David Sims?

  I'd be like, I feel like you're paying even less attention. They're like, yeah, well, that scene didn't really work for me.

• 1:41:51Griffin Newman?

  The people I remember who were Coens fans at the time were like, the movie sucks. It doesn't feel like them, except for there's this old guy and there's this thing with this assassin named Wheezy Joe.

• 1:42:00David Sims?

  I mean, those things are obviously very Coens.

• 1:42:00Griffin Newman?

  Everyone told me those are the only two things that feel like them.

• 1:42:03David Sims?

  Yes. Wheezy Joe is definitely right out of Raising Arizona.

• 1:42:07Griffin Newman?

  But just talking about the inherent darkness, Katie, in this movie where it's so surprising that all these different people attach themselves to it and we're like busting after the script. The Coens are latching on to like an honest cynicism within this story, right? You could imagine the original version of the script and other versions that people directed being much frothier and having a sort of like, they both make each other good people kind of ending.

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:33Griffin Newman?

  And this movie is based on the cynicism of how we've basically set up an industry of marriage.

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:42:38Griffin Newman?

  Right? That like marriage has like morphed from being this like property merger thing to ostensibly being a modern thing based on love, but also we're all kind of quietly ignoring the fact that the big concern is always the money at the center of the thing.

• 1:42:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:52Griffin Newman?

  And that there are people who become fucking millionaires many, many times over at being able to explode marriages or protect marriages or whatever it is.

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:00Griffin Newman?

  That all of this is so callous and this notion of a prenup and immediately like at the beginning of your marriage being like, and by the way.

• 1:43:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:08Griffin Newman?

  I don't trust you.

• 1:43:08Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:43:09Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:43:10Speaker 03

  Well, it made me wonder, cause like Joel Coens has obviously been very happily married for a long time. Like was Ethan going through any divorces in this period? Like, is anything personal?

• 1:43:17Griffin Newman?

  Joel was divorced once, very young.

• 1:43:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:43:20Griffin Newman?

  Before he met Frances. Joel and Ethan have both been married to the same people for decades now. Ethan's marriage seems interesting.

• 1:43:28David Sims?

  I would say both have very interesting marriages.

• 1:43:30Griffin Newman?

  Yes, they both seem to have interesting marriages.

• 1:43:32David Sims?

  And they're very, they seem very content in their interesting marriages.

• 1:43:35Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. In their own ways, they are both major wife guys. But there's the Joel divorce that he kind of never talks about. And it does feel like the early movies-

• 1:43:43Speaker 03

  Really pre Blood Simple.

• 1:43:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:43:45David Sims?

  I mean, Joel Cohen obviously is always doing People Magazine spreads. And he just won't touch that one topic. It's like Joel Cohen doesn't talk about his personal life at all.

• 1:43:52Griffin Newman?

  I'm hearing a rumor that he is gonna announce his new era soon.

• 1:43:56David Sims?

  He's gonna go-

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  He's going on new heights?

• 1:43:57David Sims?

  On his new girlfriend's podcast. Imagine. Imagine if-

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  If Frances McDormand had a podcast, are you kidding?

• 1:44:04David Sims?

  No, if Taylor Swift dumped Tyler Kelsey, whatever his name is.

• 1:44:08Speaker 03

  Travis.

• 1:44:09David Sims?

  Travis Kelsey, sorry. And you know who he is. I'm not trying to be a sports ball guy over here. And was like, I've got a new boyfriend, Joel Cohen. And she hooked up with Joel Cohen?

• 1:44:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:19David Sims?

  That would be a great era.

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  Would she finally make her movie in that case? Like, she's in Hollywood now?

• 1:44:23Griffin Newman?

  It felt like four years ago, everything was pointing towards serious cinephile Taylor Swift. And then we just took a hard left turn.

• 1:44:30Speaker 03

  To the NFL.

• 1:44:31Griffin Newman?

  If only she had broken up the McDormand-Cohen marriage.

• 1:44:34David Sims?

  She also took a hard left turn to doing like a two-year tour that was like the most successful music tour-

• 1:44:39Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 1:44:40David Sims?

  In the history of Sung Word.

• 1:44:42Speaker 03

  The searchlights just saying like, hey, Taylor, where's that deal we signed four years ago?

• 1:44:45Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say-

• 1:44:46Speaker 03

  Whenever you're ready.

• 1:44:46Griffin Newman?

  The most successful thing in the history of the economy?

• 1:44:49David Sims?

  It was just right, exactly. It was like, it was like a country unto itself.

• 1:44:52Griffin Newman?

  It was cra- you look at the stats from the era's tour and it's like every city she went to for that week had the kind of economy boost that is usually reserved for the Olympics.

• 1:45:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. My mom and sister went to Indianapolis and there was like a thing in the airport greeting the people who were there for Taylor Swift. It was bananas.

• 1:45:09Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, oh, the one week she was in Indianapolis-

• 1:45:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was bigger than the Colts, probably.

• 1:45:14Griffin Newman?

  The city went up $2 billion.

• 1:45:16Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:45:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:21Speaker 07

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• 1:45:55Griffin Newman?

  You have in the hotel hallway after the wedding, where Clooney basically like monologues to Catherine Zeta-Jones of like, "Aren't you in love with me?" Right.

• 1:46:04David Sims?

  Right, it all happens in Vegas.

• 1:46:06Griffin Newman?

  We're the two stars of this movie. Can we like get over and admit it? And he kisses her, and she kisses back, and then basically has no reaction, walks away, and he does the "You fascinate me."

• 1:46:16David Sims?

  Fascinate me.

• 1:46:16Speaker 03

  And this is like six months after the Boob About the World wedding.

• 1:46:19David Sims?

  This is the six months. But like, right, but it's like, he's operating on the premise of she is divorced and about to collect more money than even I have.

• 1:46:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:46:28David Sims?

  And it's a con. I mean, what we're, look, just to spoil the movie, like, she's conning him. She has arranged it so that he will marry her in Vegas while he's at his convention.

• 1:46:38Griffin Newman?

  Oh, I'm sorry. The kiss in the hallway happens after she brings Billy Bob to him the first time.

• 1:46:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:44Griffin Newman?

  The introduction of Billy Bob.

• 1:46:46Speaker 03

  Oh, right, that's in his office. This is well before Vegas.

• 1:46:48Griffin Newman?

  Right, he's like, "Let's cut through this shit," right?

• 1:46:50David Sims?

  Post, post the marriage.

• 1:46:51Griffin Newman?

  And, yes.

• 1:46:52David Sims?

  At the Vegas convention of divorce lawyers.

• 1:46:55Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:46:55David Sims?

  He.

• 1:46:56Griffin Newman?

  She shows up looking like a trillion dollars.

• 1:46:58David Sims?

  With the big dog.

• 1:46:59Griffin Newman?

  And he's immediately kind of like goo-goo eyed at the idea that she's worth more than he is now.

• 1:47:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:47:06Griffin Newman?

  And this is where the big, like, power shift happens is... Uh, she gets a call that Julia Duffy had died.

• 1:47:13Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:14David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  Well, that's after they go to that dinner.

• 1:47:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:47:17Speaker 03

  Which is so lovely and like sad, where they're both like realizing they're not happy with what they've gotten.

• 1:47:21David Sims?

  But she's thinking it.

• 1:47:21Speaker 03

  But she's facing it, but like at the time, it feels very sincere.

• 1:47:25David Sims?

  It does, where they're both like, right, we, there's nothing left for us in the field except for love.

• 1:47:29Griffin Newman?

  We've, we've climbed the tallest mountain.

• 1:47:31David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:47:32Griffin Newman?

  There's nothing left, right. And then she gets this call and she's like, my friend, she had all this money, she had all these divorces. She died from, you know, recovery of another.

• 1:47:41David Sims?

  The perforated ulcer.

• 1:47:42Speaker 03

  Well, because she, yeah, she couldn't take the medicine for the ulcer because of plastic surgery.

• 1:47:45Griffin Newman?

  Right. And she's like, and she didn't have anybody.

• 1:47:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:48Griffin Newman?

  And Clooney's like, we have to get married right now. Is the thing I love that they have not slept together.

• 1:47:52Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:52Griffin Newman?

  But it is this kind of thing.

• 1:47:54David Sims?

  It's a fairly chaste movie.

• 1:47:55Griffin Newman?

  Well, I was gonna say, it's like post code movies where they have to sort of skip over the implication that the characters have ever.

• 1:48:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:03Griffin Newman?

  Slept together. And I guess in some ways it's a more traditional, you might just say like, I like your look. Will you please take my hand in marriage?

• 1:48:11Speaker 03

  They gotta go get married so they can finally kiss on the bed.

• 1:48:13Griffin Newman?

  But he's basically, he just makes like a logical plea to her of like, shouldn't we just be together?

• 1:48:19Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:19Griffin Newman?

  Let's just get this over with. I'll give you the massy prenup.

• 1:48:23Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:48:23Griffin Newman?

  Right? I'm so in this for love that I want you to know that I'm not after your money.

• 1:48:29David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:48:30Griffin Newman?

  They go to the little chapel.

• 1:48:31David Sims?

  And then they, they get married and she tears up the mansion.

• 1:48:33Speaker 03

  The wee kirk of the heather.

• 1:48:34David Sims?

  She does, she does the, uh, the, the, the tearing up the prenup thing three times in this movie.

• 1:48:39Griffin Newman?

  In their marital.

• 1:48:40David Sims?

  And the first two times it's fake. The third time it's real.

• 1:48:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:44David Sims?

  Um, but right. I mean, obviously this is all a long con. She is taking his money by marrying him. She was never married to Doyle, who's a soap opera actor.

• 1:48:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:48:54David Sims?

  And.

• 1:48:56Speaker 03

  Which is.

• 1:48:56David Sims?

  It's, you're right about the Lady Eve thing where it's like, right, that second act is brief and it's at Vegas, the, the crowning moment you mentioned in your Letterboxd review is his speech.

• 1:49:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:49:05David Sims?

  His kind of greed is good speech where he's like, love is good.

• 1:49:08Griffin Newman?

  This is act three. Second act is Billy Bob, which is really short.

• 1:49:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:49:13David Sims?

  No, this is act two.

• 1:49:14Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:49:14David Sims?

  Act three to me is after they get married.

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  Is Wheezy Joe.

• 1:49:17David Sims?

  And then it's Wheezy Joe and all that.

• 1:49:18Griffin Newman?

  No, you're right. You're right. You're right. I forgot about the whole Wheezy joke.

• 1:49:21David Sims?

  Right, and then, so, but then, right, that's what I'm saying. We leap to.

• 1:49:24Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:49:24David Sims?

  Massey is ruined.

• 1:49:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:49:26David Sims?

  Cat, uh, Marilyn has all his money.

• 1:49:28Griffin Newman?

  He's speaking at the no man convention. He has what would be your big triumphant third act.

• 1:49:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:49:33Griffin Newman?

  The character has seen the light.

• 1:49:35David Sims?

  Right, but that's in the second act and he's been.

• 1:49:36Griffin Newman?

  Monologue, saying like, I think what we're doing is bad and actually love is important.

• 1:49:41Speaker 03

  And they give him the slow clap and do they lift him on shoulders or is that just the implication?

• 1:49:46Griffin Newman?

  He's, he's conquering hero.

• 1:49:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:48Griffin Newman?

  And then he immediately clocks Billy Bob on the TV.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  Apparently with Bruce Campbell is there, which I did not clock, but I just saw on Wikipedia.

• 1:49:56Speaker 04

  Just to clarify, he signs the prenup because he believes that Billy Bob has given her the money.

• 1:50:03David Sims?

  She has his wealth, but he, she has no wealth at all.

• 1:50:07Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:50:07David Sims?

  And instead, like, by ripping up the prenup.

• 1:50:10Speaker 04

  He's in the bad position or whatever they say.

• 1:50:13Griffin Newman?

  He gave her the prenup to protect her, to say to her, I love you not for your money. So he thinks that her ripping up the prenup is her saying, I love you so much, I want you to share my money. And in reality, he's giving her access to his money.

• 1:50:26Speaker 04

  I got so confused at this point and it took me until the end to actually understand what was fucking going on.

• 1:50:33Griffin Newman?

  It's another thing with this movie of like, as I was saying, it is a movie and most comedies are not structured like this. Like a thriller heist movie where you don't know until the end what's been going on the whole time.

• 1:50:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:43Griffin Newman?

  I've now seen this like four or five times and even still, every time while I'm watching it, I'm trying to remember exactly where it's going.

• 1:50:51David Sims?

  But in the third act, like now Clooney is ruined. Marilyn has his money.

• 1:50:56Griffin Newman?

  She has his house.

• 1:50:57David Sims?

  She has his house. Clooney's partner, you know, the old guy Herb, is like, you have to kill her to protect the reputation of the firm.

• 1:51:03Griffin Newman?

  And Clooney's having nightmares about like, this guy who previously had said like, you're the best of us, you're the future. Now he's having nightmares basically about becoming that guy.

• 1:51:11David Sims?

  Hire Wheezy Joe.

• 1:51:14Griffin Newman?

  Or I guess the nightmare is what gets him to propose to say.

• 1:51:17David Sims?

  Played by the great Erwin Keys.

• 1:51:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:51:19David Sims?

  Who's just one of those faces. Made a bajillion fucking.

• 1:51:23Speaker 03

  Born to be in a Coen movie.

• 1:51:24Griffin Newman?

  Big skull man.

• 1:51:25David Sims?

  Yeah, yes. It's pretty funny to ask him, are you Wheezy Joe?

• 1:51:29Speaker 03

  While he's wheezing.

• 1:51:30David Sims?

  Yeah. Who's bit, of course, is that he has an inhaler.

• 1:51:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:34Speaker 03

  Also, he and Paul Adelson get a lot of those, like, uh, raising Arizona screams at each other where they just turn and shriek at the top of their lungs. They're really good at it.

• 1:51:42David Sims?

  It's funny, it's, uh, it's, um, Paul Adelson went right from this, cause it was like, he was just emerging, Paul Adelson, right? Like, Prison Break is right around this time.

• 1:51:56Griffin Newman?

  Right, he does Prison Break and Preparatory Practice, he does like three TV shows in a row.

• 1:52:00David Sims?

  And like in Prison Break, he was like a hard boiled asshole. It's like, he's such a good goof and I feel like he didn't get to do enough goof.

• 1:52:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:08David Sims?

  He usually plays in movies, like, a guy wearing an FBI jacket who's like, it looks like he went that way.

• 1:52:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, you watch this and you assume he's like a comedy UCB guy or something.

• 1:52:16David Sims?

  Right. He's so fucking funny.

• 1:52:19Griffin Newman?

  It feels like he got caught in a very, very lucrative detour.

• 1:52:23Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 1:52:23David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, I guess.

• 1:52:24Speaker 03

  Cool among us.

• 1:52:24David Sims?

  TV stuff, right.

• 1:52:25Griffin Newman?

  Network procedural stuff.

• 1:52:27David Sims?

  Um, but anyway, he's, but yes, but the, the final gag is they hire Wheezy Joe to kill her. And before he gets to her, they realize she.

• 1:52:36Griffin Newman?

  Edward Herman has died.

• 1:52:37David Sims?

  Is rich because Rex Rexroth has left her his fortune by mistake.

• 1:52:42Griffin Newman?

  He never updated his will.

• 1:52:43David Sims?

  And he dies in a train orgy.

• 1:52:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes. He's got a big bed in front of.

• 1:52:48Speaker 03

  Choo choo.

• 1:52:49David Sims?

  You're right about post code movies where it's like, right, he's jumping on a big bed with a bunch of ladies in kind of like fancy old fashioned underwear.

• 1:52:57Griffin Newman?

  Like conjunction junction hats.

• 1:52:59David Sims?

  In front of a big train.

• 1:53:00Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, there's like a train coming into the station, but.

• 1:53:03David Sims?

  And you're like, right, it's an orgy, but like, uh, uh, this movie's orgy.

• 1:53:07Griffin Newman?

  It felt like the sell on this movie was trying to be, here you go, the two sexiest adults in Hollywood being sexy.

• 1:53:14Speaker 03

  Well, that's how the Coens are about sex though, right? Like, is there any movie where there's like real, like genuine sex scenes?

• 1:53:19Griffin Newman?

  What's the one we were saying, I mean, it's what?

• 1:53:21David Sims?

  Well, I mean, of course, the hottest sex scene, I Hear Bills, when, uh, Buscemi's getting ridden in, uh, Fargo.

• 1:53:27Griffin Newman?

  The, the parallel, yes.

• 1:53:29David Sims?

  I Hear Bills.

• 1:53:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:31David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, sex in Coen, they've had sex in the movies.

• 1:53:34Griffin Newman?

  Many episodes ahead, but it's what's so bracing about Trivial Idols.

• 1:53:38Speaker 03

  Oh, goodness.

• 1:53:39Griffin Newman?

  Is your like every.

• 1:53:40David Sims?

  Oh my goodness.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  Ethan's been holding this back all this time.

• 1:53:43Griffin Newman?

  Coen movies either cut away, fade out before the sex starts and fade back in the next morning, right? Like this film does.

• 1:53:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. Or make it ridiculous.

• 1:53:52Griffin Newman?

  Or it's like, it's, it's cuckolding. Or it's kind of like comedic banality.

• 1:53:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:59Griffin Newman?

  It is like, this is depressing. Yeah.

• 1:54:04David Sims?

  So, uh, so they have to stop Wheezy Joe for murdering her because now she's richer than him. So he will now benefit from the divorce.

• 1:54:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:54:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:54:14David Sims?

  And of course, Wheezy Joe accidentally inhales his own pistol and dies in a iconic Coen Brothers goofy criminal moment. That I do feel like is the one thing everyone was like, Wheezy Joe!

• 1:54:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, and it's also that violence, like the sudden shocking bit of blood that like this movie really lacks. There's no violence in it, other than that, really.

• 1:54:33Griffin Newman?

  You watch, I mean, he does like get shot. You see the fucking bullet wound. There is a lack of blood. You feel in a way where it's like, right, this is a PG 13.

• 1:54:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:42Griffin Newman?

  Universal imagination entertainment movie.

• 1:54:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:44Griffin Newman?

  It costs 60 million dollars.

• 1:54:46Speaker 03

  But it's also, it's like as surprising as like Brad Pitt in the closet and burned after reading or something, right?

• 1:54:50Griffin Newman?

  But that's like bloodier.

• 1:54:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that's heartbreaking in some way.

• 1:54:54David Sims?

  Well, that's, it's also Brad Pitt. So it's so shocking.

• 1:54:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:58David Sims?

  When that happens. Whereas Wheezy Joe, ah, Wheezy Joe.

• 1:55:01Griffin Newman?

  You kind of feel like they're teeing him up.

• 1:55:03David Sims?

  I mean, Wheezy Joe is, a studio would probably be like, we're introducing this guy like 100 minutes into a 100 minute movie? Right? Like, he's a big swing.

• 1:55:12Speaker 03

  He wasn't made to be long for this world, Wheezy Joe.

• 1:55:15David Sims?

  Like you could combine him with Cedric the Entertainer, maybe.

• 1:55:18Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's like a Final Destination setup where you're like, gun and inhaler, got it. I know how this is ultimately going to end. I'm just waiting to see the joy of how they finally like tee it up.

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:32David Sims?

  Yeah. And, uh, the epilogue is, okay, time to do the divorce. We're back at the table. We're back with, um, Jen Jenkins.

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  Jenkins.

• 1:55:41David Sims?

  And, uh, they finally are like, maybe we are in love, right? Tear up the prenup. You're exposed. Like, it's like the final.

• 1:55:49Speaker 03

  A sitting duck.

• 1:55:49Griffin Newman?

  Jenkins is furious where he's hired someone to murder you.

• 1:55:55Speaker 03

  And then he runs off with the briefcase and Adelstein's like, that's not there and chases after him.

• 1:55:59Griffin Newman?

  But Lady Eve has a similar thing where like, the guy is so hurt by being conned the first time, he needs to be conned a second time to forgive her. You know, like they have to go so far beyond the pale.

• 1:56:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:10Griffin Newman?

  To work past their problems.

• 1:56:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, they've gone through all this effort to con each other, so maybe they are just, they deserve each other in some way.

• 1:56:16Griffin Newman?

  It's also like, that's how they know that the other one cares.

• 1:56:20David Sims?

  I guess, I guess re your point, re Rush. We probably don't need the America's Funniest Divorce Videos coda. I mean, I like Gus getting his little star.

• 1:56:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, you want, you want him back one more time, but I.

• 1:56:32Griffin Newman?

  He says, right, how did you find the actor? He said, I found this producer, right.

• 1:56:37David Sims?

  Sensible.

• 1:56:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:56:39David Sims?

  But I don't know if we need that. I mean, we could probably buy that she would find the actor.

• 1:56:43Speaker 03

  It's a nice, tidy. Specific dated in a way, and like, not that this movie is trying to feel timeless, but you do get to that and you're like, I don't know if I need. Cause then I feel like that scene in the, in the office is so perfect. Like, that's the note that you want to end. It's probably the note that like, a real Preston Sturgis movie would end on as opposed to the coda.

• 1:56:58David Sims?

  You want tact, call a tactician. You want an ass nailed.

• 1:57:03Griffin Newman?

  Gonna nail that ass.

• 1:57:06Griffin Newman?

  I do think you watch a lot of like, Lubitsch and Sturgis in particular. And the final beat of the movie will often be some loop closing with a supporting character. They end with like, here's the perfect, like romantic, like.

• 1:57:22David Sims?

  And then William Demarest is like, ah, that's right.

• 1:57:24Griffin Newman?

  Positively the same thing. Or the three guys opening the restaurant at the end of Nenochka or stuff.

• 1:57:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:29Griffin Newman?

  It does feel very classical to be like.

• 1:57:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:33Griffin Newman?

  We don't put game pieces on the board unless they will ultimately get their final payoff.

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  Well, and there's the bit about Jeffrey Rush where it's like, that show will be yours someday. So like to have Catherine Sidney Jones has now ownership of the game show. Like, yeah, I don't really know how that's a transfer to property, but it does feel like a callback to that, too.

• 1:57:49Griffin Newman?

  Right. And the idea that she has something of her own that's now his and whatever.

• 1:57:54Speaker 03

  Oh, well, it's something that they do together, right? Does he say like, what are we gonna do now? And she's like, I have an idea. And then it's such a good entertainer on a TV show.

• 1:58:03Griffin Newman?

  It's interesting. Did JJ have anything more about the budget? I mean, I do think a lot of this was some development costs, but also you're like.

• 1:58:09David Sims?

  JJ who is fired, of course, because you didn't sign the Massey prenup.

• 1:58:12Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna nail this.

• 1:58:14David Sims?

  We are gonna nail. No, I mean, the budget is not really, there was just so little reporting on this movie because it was kinda there and gone.

• 1:58:21Griffin Newman?

  Clooney has always said that he thinks there are less than five times in his career where he actually got his full quote.

• 1:58:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:58:27Griffin Newman?

  Because he is a guy who likes to be like, I wanted to do the...

• 1:58:29David Sims?

  He just didn't do a lot of paycheck shit.

• 1:58:31Griffin Newman?

  I wanna do The Descendants.

• 1:58:32David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:58:33Griffin Newman?

  I'll do deferred salary, you know? I feel like this is one of the cases where he probably got full quote.

• 1:58:38David Sims?

  Maybe he did, and maybe like...

• 1:58:40Griffin Newman?

  I think this is probably more than the Coens were ever paid upfront to direct a movie, I'm guessing.

• 1:58:46Speaker 03

  So everyone just got paid a lot?

• 1:58:47Griffin Newman?

  That's my thing, and I'm like, I bet...

• 1:58:49Speaker 03

  Well, it's bankable, right?

• 1:58:50Griffin Newman?

  Craft Services was much better on this film than it was in the Coen Brothers film.

• 1:58:53Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:58:54Griffin Newman?

  You know, they talk about how they prep so meticulously to be able to keep costs down, to have worked everything out so far in advance that they don't have to go searching on the day.

• 1:59:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:03Griffin Newman?

  And I just think that's them working around a lot of, the second there's a certain price tag on your head, people start asking questions, and they start breathing down your neck, and there's pressure, even if your people who are able to retain final cut in a movie like this, they just don't want that pressure on them, right? And this is just, I think everyone was more comfortable, people probably had better trailers. I think fucking like...

• 1:59:27Speaker 03

  They probably stayed at a great hotel in Vegas.

• 1:59:29Griffin Newman?

  Grazer and Ron Howard both were probably paid like a million dollars to produce this, even though Ethan was the main producer, you know? Like, I think this is just a movie where everyone got their full salary, where everyone was treated nicely, it doesn't feel like they made it any differently. But you do watch this, and you're like, holy shit, Burn After Reading costs $20 million?

• 1:59:49Speaker 03

  It's crazy that True Grit is cheaper than this?

• 1:59:51Griffin Newman?

  True Grit's like 40 or 50?

• 1:59:53Speaker 03

  Wild.

• 1:59:53Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, they're just so good at just like, don't waste money on things that aren't on screen.

• 1:59:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:59Griffin Newman?

  And also, big stars want to work with them, and they will ultimately benefit when the movie is profitable, which almost all other movies are because the bar is so low.

• 2:00:06Speaker 03

  You think this one's eventually made its money back?

• 2:00:08Griffin Newman?

  It made 80 worldwide?

• 2:00:11Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:00:11David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, let me look up the numbers. I do think we had Seth Rogen on the show recently to discuss The Big Lebowski, the episode's already aired, and he put it, which, correctly, which, it made 120 worldwide, it made 35 domestic.

• 2:00:23Griffin Newman?

  It made 120 worldwide?

• 2:00:25David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:00:26Griffin Newman?

  So it made 80 overseas?

• 2:00:27David Sims?

  Yep.

• 2:00:27Griffin Newman?

  So that is healthy.

• 2:00:29David Sims?

  Movie stars, man.

• 2:00:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:29David Sims?

  And it's like... But as he said, as he put it, and he's right, he's like, at this time, every movie made forty million dollars on DVD.

• 2:00:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:36David Sims?

  Even bad ones.

• 2:00:37Speaker 03

  That's the base.

• 2:00:38David Sims?

  Maybe they made more.

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:39David Sims?

  Everything would just make so much money on DVD.

• 2:00:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and especially comedies.

• 2:00:43David Sims?

  Um, anyway, uh, the film came out October tenth.

• 2:00:49Griffin Newman?

  But I do think, I do think it spooks them a little bit. It is weird, even though no one's losing their shirt on it. I think it's perceived as amiss.

• 2:00:57David Sims?

  I'm sure it spooked them as much as the Coens are spookable. I don't know how much. They, they do seem quite self-assured, obviously.

• 2:01:04Griffin Newman?

  And yet they followed up with a very similar move. It's another movie they were originally just hired to write, that they decide to take over in direct with a huge movie star.

• 2:01:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:13Griffin Newman?

  And it's a studio project that's being pushed as a conventional mainstream comedy, or at least trying to sell it that way.

• 2:01:22Speaker 03

  You've already recorded Lady Killer's episode, and I had, I did not, I've seen it once, uh, you know, fifteen years ago.

• 2:01:28Griffin Newman?

  I will, I will spoil here. I just contend that they have never made a movie with a failing grade. I'd say that's the one that's on the cusp.

• 2:01:35Speaker 03

  Closest.

• 2:01:36David Sims?

  That's the one I give a fail.

• 2:01:36Griffin Newman?

  I'm like, I give it like a fucking C plus, B minus.

• 2:01:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:39David Sims?

  Ben, did you like Intolerable Cruelty? I haven't realized I haven't really gotten the, and I was getting this sense.

• 2:01:45Speaker 03

  He's been quiet.

• 2:01:46David Sims?

  Getting this sense.

• 2:01:46Griffin Newman?

  You had a hard time following.

• 2:01:47Speaker 04

  I laughed at some moments. I found the characters quite despicable.

• 2:01:58Griffin Newman?

  They are.

• 2:01:58Speaker 04

  In a way that made it hard for me to wanna follow them along.

• 2:02:04Griffin Newman?

  It's a very acidic movie with no one to root for.

• 2:02:07Speaker 03

  Yep. But then it makes you believe in love at the end, anyway.

• 2:02:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, and there's something about the crassness, and I understand it's arch.

• 2:02:16David Sims?

  It's arch.

• 2:02:17Speaker 04

  But.

• 2:02:18David Sims?

  Arch as hell.

• 2:02:18Speaker 04

  It just.

• 2:02:19David Sims?

  Ben, you're a sincere fella.

• 2:02:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:02:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, I struggled with it a little bit. Like, I will say, I had to pause at one point, cuz I got. So frustrated, like the moment when Clooney, they get married. I just like, I gotta walk away from this. I'm so annoyed.

• 2:02:36Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:02:36Griffin Newman?

  I also think so much of the movie is misdirecting the audience that you kinda need to see it twice to have seen it once. Which is another thing of like, people seeing in theaters at the time and never revisiting it.

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:02:47Speaker 04

  And I bet that that's a symptom of me always, you know, knowing that if I were put in this situation, that it would work out.

• 2:02:55Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 2:02:55Speaker 04

  And so seeing him fuck up so bad.

• 2:02:57Speaker 03

  Catherine Zeta Jones would not pull one over on you.

• 2:02:59Speaker 04

  I gotta get out of here. I can't even deal with this.

• 2:03:02Griffin Newman?

  Ben, to David's point of you being a sincere fella and someone who loves love.

• 2:03:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03:06Griffin Newman?

  Unlike bag of money movies, I think you can't even place yourself in the characters' heads in this.

• 2:03:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, you don't play around with that shit. Heinz, the Baron Kraus, funnest.

• 2:03:16Griffin Newman?

  They are engaging in intolerable cruelty towards each other, which you don't fuck with.

• 2:03:20Speaker 04

  Number one of the.

• 2:03:22Speaker 03

  Well, hang on, hang on. Can I say one more thing about the tone of this? I know, David. I also have to leave, but like, I feel like if this.

• 2:03:27Speaker 04

  You have to leave. That's why I'm rushing this.

• 2:03:29Speaker 03

  If this had come out with Burn After Reading, like post No Country.

• 2:03:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:32Speaker 03

  Put those two movies together. I think they go really hand in hand. But I do think Burn After Reading's, that tone directed at DC as opposed to like Divorce Lawyers and Love, like, is a little bit better aimed? Like, it makes more sense to be cynical about that than.

• 2:03:45Speaker 04

  I vastly prefer this movie.

• 2:03:46Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 2:03:47Griffin Newman?

  David dislikes Burn, although we will see how the rewatch goes.

• 2:03:50Speaker 04

  We will. It's not like I think Burn is like a bad movie. Like, it's well made. It's got a lot of great stuff. But like, that is the one time where I kinda had the Ben reaction. And on every rewatch, I rewatch, I have the Ben reaction. I'm like, too mean. I kinda hate everybody. I'm, I, you know, feels like an exercise.

• 2:04:07Griffin Newman?

  I, I agree with you, Katie. And as I love to remind people, Burn After Reading is weirdly their third highest grossing film.

• 2:04:14Speaker 04

  You love to remind people of that, but I don't care about that.

• 2:04:16Griffin Newman?

  But I'm just saying, it did cross over in a way that, to Katie's point.

• 2:04:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:04:21Griffin Newman?

  I do think it was more palatable. Like, the acidity in that movie is like, we all hate these guys. This movie is based around people.

• 2:04:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:28Griffin Newman?

  Who are kind of like annoying and arrogant, but we can all find common enemies in them.

• 2:04:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you want to like hate DC.

• 2:04:36Griffin Newman?

  The levels of power.

• 2:04:37Speaker 03

  And like, yeah, and also just like the post no country thing, people were really like ready to receive it on its level as opposed to this period where it was a little bit weird.

• 2:04:44David Sims?

  It wasn't just Clooney, it was Clooney and Pitt.

• 2:04:46Griffin Newman?

  But I think that movie has targets that are acceptable.

• 2:04:50David Sims?

  There's also something to like grimy scumbags versus these are like rich awful people.

• 2:04:57Griffin Newman?

  You haven't seen Burn After Reading it, right?

• 2:04:59David Sims?

  I have.

• 2:05:00Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:05:01David Sims?

  I have, but I just think that movie has a really goofy tone. I just remember enjoying it.

• 2:05:06Griffin Newman?

  But they are rich people, yeah.

• 2:05:07David Sims?

  I like this kind of because it's like the rich people aren't happy even when they're not being mean. You know, it's, it gets it.

• 2:05:13Griffin Newman?

  That's what I like.

• 2:05:13David Sims?

  October 10th, 2003, a bad time to release this movie in my opinion. As I already said, it's opening number four at the box office to 12.5 million dollars, which is just straight up bad for your George Clooney PG 13 rom com. Like, come on.

• 2:05:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:26David Sims?

  Now, number one at the box office.

• 2:05:27Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:05:28David Sims?

  Making 22 million dollars.

• 2:05:30Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:05:30David Sims?

  So again, I don't know why they opened this against this.

• 2:05:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:34David Sims?

  Is an O'Turris masterpiece that is.

• 2:05:35Griffin Newman?

  Is it Kill Bill?

• 2:05:36David Sims?

  It's Kill Bill, volume one.

• 2:05:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:38David Sims?

  Which is like one of the greatest experiences I ever had in a movie.

• 2:05:42Griffin Newman?

  It's another reason I think I didn't see this in theaters was I was seeing Kill Bill three times.

• 2:05:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:48Griffin Newman?

  You know, like I was just.

• 2:05:50Speaker 03

  All the Coens people you were talking about who didn't want to see it, they were busy.

• 2:05:52Griffin Newman?

  It just felt triumphant. The guy's back and this thing is like a fucking thrill ride.

• 2:05:57David Sims?

  What kind of crazy, you know, studio is like, yeah, let's open the new Coens against the new Tarantino.

• 2:06:02Griffin Newman?

  It's very bizarre.

• 2:06:04David Sims?

  Anyway, so that's number one. Number two is I would call a big sleeper hit of the season.

• 2:06:11Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:06:11David Sims?

  It was number one last week. It's gonna make 81 million dollars. It's making 15 million in its second week. It had very good legs.

• 2:06:17Griffin Newman?

  So it was September 2003?

• 2:06:20David Sims?

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 2:06:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:21David Sims?

  Late September, like a charming comedy with a movie star.

• 2:06:26Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:06:26David Sims?

  Uh, it's kind of his movie star breakout.

• 2:06:29Griffin Newman?

  It's kind of his movie star breakout.

• 2:06:31Speaker 03

  I was thinking it was a Reese.

• 2:06:33Griffin Newman?

  And you think it's charming?

• 2:06:35David Sims?

  It's a great movie. It is a, I think, at this point, a canonical classic.

• 2:06:38Griffin Newman?

  It's a canonical classic. 2003, September.

• 2:06:42Griffin Newman?

  It's his breakout.

• 2:06:44David Sims?

  Kind of. I mean, he's already a big star, I get, or he's, he's becoming a big star right now. He's, he's been a big kinda supporting actor guy for a few years and now.

• 2:06:54Griffin Newman?

  And Pacifier doesn't come out till 2004.

• 2:06:56David Sims?

  I'm not talking about The Pacifier.

• 2:06:58Griffin Newman?

  You said big star, so it has to be Vin Diesel.

• 2:07:02Griffin Newman?

  What would you say is the main genre of this star?

• 2:07:04David Sims?

  Com- uh, comedy. He's a comedy star.

• 2:07:06Griffin Newman?

  It's a big comedy star. Is it Will Ferrell?

• 2:07:08David Sims?

  Nope.

• 2:07:08Griffin Newman?

  It's, no, cause Elf is a little later, the same year.

• 2:07:12David Sims?

  Christmas time or close to it.

• 2:07:13Griffin Newman?

  And it's not a Stiller, and it's not Nolan Wilson, and it's not a Vince Vaughn, and it's, it's School of Rock.

• 2:07:20David Sims?

  It is School of Rock, a wonderful Richard Linklater movie, uh, which, right, it's that thing of like, it's a mainstream family comedy that's made by Richard Linklater and feels like it was made by him.

• 2:07:31Griffin Newman?

  It is what I think everyone hoped in Tolerable Cruelty would be.

• 2:07:35David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:07:36Griffin Newman?

  And there's this feeling.

• 2:07:37David Sims?

  With actual crossover appeal beyond just, right, art movie.

• 2:07:40Griffin Newman?

  Jim Jacks, who our buddy Kevin Smith talked about a lot, uh, on the podcast, was the guy who originally got the Intolerable Cruelty script and set it up at Universal in the early 90s, and his big thing was, find these Sundance guys who have, you can see the gem of a commercial movie within them, and protect them enough to let them make it their way, and that was like Dazed and Confused. And at the time, it was like, ah, one of these days, Linklater's gonna figure out how to make a movie that cracks the mainstream. Yep. And there was that similar feeling with The Coens, yeah.

• 2:08:11David Sims?

  Number three at the box office new this week is the movie that I'm sure an angry phone call or two were made about not even opening up of this.

• 2:08:19Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:08:19David Sims?

  Right? You know, it's like, I'm sure some agents got chewed out, some assistants got yelled at. It's a, uh, family comedy.

• 2:08:27Griffin Newman?

  It's a family comedy.

• 2:08:28David Sims?

  Um, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's heavy on animal.

• 2:08:32Griffin Newman?

  Is it Good Boy?

• 2:08:33David Sims?

  It is the film Good Boy.

• 2:08:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. What is that?

• 2:08:35David Sims?

  Uh, which stars dogs, I would say.

• 2:08:37Griffin Newman?

  It's a Jim Henson production.

• 2:08:39David Sims?

  Essentially, I think Molly Shannon is first billed in this one, Liam Aiken is the kid actor.

• 2:08:44Griffin Newman?

  But I think you're right, Molly Shannon's the mom, and it's like, dogs are actually aliens. Oh. Matthew Broderick is an alien. I'm an alien dog. Matthew Broderick's an alien dog. So the dogs, the dogs talk. Yeah.

• 2:08:55David Sims?

  Matthew Broderick, Brittany Murphy, Carl Reiner.

• 2:08:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, these are all the dogs. Sounds like people.

• 2:09:00David Sims?

  Cheech Marin, Cheech Marin doing a hilarious voice sample.

• 2:09:03Griffin Newman?

  But I think it's basically like, dogs are from Mars.

• 2:09:07David Sims?

  I mean, this is one of those movies that has like been banned from existence by like congressional action.

• 2:09:12Griffin Newman?

  But you're right.

• 2:09:13David Sims?

  I have never.

• 2:09:13Speaker 03

  I had no idea this existed.

• 2:09:15Griffin Newman?

  Of intolerable cruelty.

• 2:09:18Griffin Newman?

  Good boy.

• 2:09:20David Sims?

  Number five of the box office.

• 2:09:21Griffin Newman?

  Molly Shane was top billed, but top billed is a dog. Like it was a movie that was so wrong.

• 2:09:26David Sims?

  Top billed was like eight dogs. Like she was like ninth billed.

• 2:09:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And they're beating two of the biggest movie stars at the moment.

• 2:09:32David Sims?

  Number nine of the box, uh, number five of the box office is a movie star thriller.

• 2:09:37Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:09:37David Sims?

  Um, I would say it is a lesser entry in his oeuvre, although it is a, uh, he's working with a director he made a great movie with, uh, before.

• 2:09:45Griffin Newman?

  Is it a Fuqua?

• 2:09:46David Sims?

  No, but you've got the right star.

• 2:09:49Griffin Newman?

  So it is a Denzel. It's a Tony Scott.

• 2:09:51David Sims?

  Washington. Nope. Not Tony Scott.

• 2:09:53Griffin Newman?

  It's not.

• 2:09:54David Sims?

  He only worked with this guy twice.

• 2:09:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:09:56David Sims?

  He's a great filmmaker. I believe he's directed you, Griffin.

• 2:10:00Griffin Newman?

  Oh, this is Out of Time?

• 2:10:01David Sims?

  It is Out of Time, directed by who?

• 2:10:03Griffin Newman?

  Carl Franklin.

• 2:10:04David Sims?

  The great Carl Franklin, who of course made One False Move and Devil in a Blue Dress, which are amazing.

• 2:10:09Griffin Newman?

  And of course directed.

• 2:10:10David Sims?

  Which is solid.

• 2:10:11Griffin Newman?

  One episode of vinyl.

• 2:10:12David Sims?

  One episode of vinyl, which I assume was good.

• 2:10:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. What I liked about him, he whispered all his direction.

• 2:10:17David Sims?

  That's cool.

• 2:10:17Speaker 03

  Is that, is that, is that a good vibe?

• 2:10:19Griffin Newman?

  It just felt very intimate. Like he'd go up to someone and just really hand on shoulder.

• 2:10:24David Sims?

  Out of Time.

• 2:10:25Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to announce things in front of everybody. I'm giving the note to just you.

• 2:10:28David Sims?

  Right. Right. It's a Denzel mode that I love, which is Denzel as a sloppy fucked up mess. Right?

• 2:10:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:34David Sims?

  Rather than Denzel as the cool professional or whatever. Like it is a, it is a sweaty Miami, or it's a Florida Keys.

• 2:10:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:42David Sims?

  Thriller about like a cop who's like, he's the chief of police, but like scandals are piling up. Yes. Eva Mendes is there, Sonal Lathan.

• 2:10:50Speaker 03

  My story about this movie is that.

• 2:10:52David Sims?

  Dean Cain, a great patriot.

• 2:10:53Speaker 03

  I texted you about this movie because I was at a trampoline park.

• 2:10:56David Sims?

  Yes, you are.

• 2:10:57Speaker 03

  That was playing, I guess it was, it had TNT on and I saw the final. I was like, what is this movie where Denzel is like sweaty and kind of a bad guy and holding a gun?

• 2:11:05David Sims?

  Out of Time. Next question.

• 2:11:06Speaker 03

  Immediately after that, they started playing Malcolm X, which was just playing in the background at a trampoline park, which was quite a sight.

• 2:11:13David Sims?

  I do.

• 2:11:14Griffin Newman?

  Does Denzel own a trampoline park?

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  Does he own Urban Air? He's probably making a lot of money off of it.

• 2:11:19David Sims?

  Uh, it's not an amazing movie, but it's alright. Uh, and that's number five of the box office. Number six of the box office new this week is House of the Dead. The uh, video game adaptation that Clooney did have the temerity to beat that one.

• 2:11:29Griffin Newman?

  Uwe Bull, that's the beginning of the Uwe Bull video game dynasty.

• 2:11:34David Sims?

  They've also got the rundown, the early Dwayne Johnson, um, uh, action, pretty good movie in my mind. Peter Berg movie, right?

• 2:11:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's if.

• 2:11:43David Sims?

  It's like fun.

• 2:11:43Griffin Newman?

  It feels like there's an alternate history where you're like, if that movie was a bigger hit at the time, the entire Dwayne Johnson trajectory would have been very different.

• 2:11:52David Sims?

  I don't think the interview's got up yet, but I interviewed Benny Safdie for Smashing Machine and he calls him DJ.

• 2:11:58Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:11:58David Sims?

  And that was very interesting to me. I was like, oh, is that, is that how we refer to him? Cause I don't, I still don't really know, you know, like when I'm interviewing, I'm like, so what did Dwayne do? What did Rock do? What are we, what are we calling him? And he calls him DJ. Uh, number eight of the box office, Under the Tuscan Sun. Uh, masterpiece, C plus masterpiece.

• 2:12:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:17David Sims?

  Uh, number nine, Secondhand Lions. Never seen that one. That's the Haley Joel post Oscar.

• 2:12:21Griffin Newman?

  Michael Caine, Robert Duvall.

• 2:12:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:23David Sims?

  Right. What fucking addled studio guy was like, get me Iron Giant.

• 2:12:29Speaker 03

  I mean, Kane and Osmond had Oscar heat.

• 2:12:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:31David Sims?

  Yeah. Uh, and then number 10, It's Been Out For Five Weeks.

• 2:12:35Griffin Newman?

  I love the idea that that's a burying the hatchet movie.

• 2:12:38David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:12:39Griffin Newman?

  Between Kane and Haley Joel and their contentious.

• 2:12:42David Sims?

  The beef must be squashed.

• 2:12:43Speaker 03

  Kane knows what he did.

• 2:12:45David Sims?

  Duvall is there being like, it's fine, you'll win your Oscar. I got mine for tender mercies, was it?

• 2:12:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:51David Sims?

  Haley, you'll win this time. Secondhand Lions. And Kane's like, oh, oh, I won't campaign. You can campaign for this. The Lions are yours.

• 2:13:00Griffin Newman?

  What the fuck? I've never had a good Kane and that was somehow the worst Kane I've ever had.

• 2:13:05Speaker 03

  Meanwhile, David Kane really just popped out there. Those were good.

• 2:13:08David Sims?

  You go over Britain, everyone has.

• 2:13:10Griffin Newman?

  Can you say the Lions are yours?

• 2:13:11David Sims?

  The Lions are yours. I can't, yeah, I lost it. Uh, number 10 is Lost in Translation, uh, which people forget came out in like, at least August. Yeah.

• 2:13:20Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:13:20Griffin Newman?

  It was in early September.

• 2:13:21David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:13:22Speaker 03

  Did it go to Venice and then straight into theaters or something?

• 2:13:24Griffin Newman?

  I think so, but it like played for.

• 2:13:26David Sims?

  Five months. Are you high on crack? All right, we're gonna complete the episode with Ben. Griffin, you would have gotten a text from Ben. Ben, I guess, just started hitting up eBay because he didn't care for the movie. So he's just, he's just typing shit.

• 2:13:38Speaker 04

  Well, no, I looked up if there's any merch.

• 2:13:40Griffin Newman?

  He looked up merch spotlight and sent an eBay link.

• 2:13:43David Sims?

  Uh, for $125, or best offer, perhaps.

• 2:13:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:13:48David Sims?

  Uh, you can buy a shirt, maybe the most wrinkled shirt.

• 2:13:51Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 2:13:52David Sims?

  Any wrinkled shirt, worn by Cedric the Entertainer.

• 2:13:55Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:13:56David Sims?

  Uh, we have studio COA, so it's, you know, it's authentic.

• 2:13:59Speaker 03

  On-screen prop, or?

• 2:14:01David Sims?

  It's just funny because the picture of the shirt now.

• 2:14:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:04David Sims?

  Is so wrinkled.

• 2:14:06Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:14:06David Sims?

  But then the picture of him wearing it, you're like, this shirt was very ironed.

• 2:14:10Speaker 03

  It was new in 2003.

• 2:14:12Griffin Newman?

  It's also, it's, uh, the shape of the shirt, I will say, is not making a ton of sense to me. It almost looks like it's like a midriff cut.

• 2:14:20David Sims?

  It is, does look short, but maybe it's a proportion.

• 2:14:24Griffin Newman?

  And I'm like, are the sleeves tiny or are they hidden?

• 2:14:26Speaker 03

  Are you guys tempted to buy, I mean, I'm looking around this office with all the stuff here and I cannot tell how much of it is shit you have bought on eBay just like this in a recording.

• 2:14:33Griffin Newman?

  Every day we come here and David goes, I wish there was more stuff. He goes, Griffin, please buy more.

• 2:14:37David Sims?

  It's interesting that you've, you've said "we" in that statement.

• 2:14:41Speaker 03

  You pulled up that eBay link, you're complicit in all of this.

• 2:14:44David Sims?

  That's true, fuck.

• 2:14:45Griffin Newman?

  He is. There's no option for best offer. I would make a best offer on this.

• 2:14:49David Sims?

  We still haven't received our, like, device that turns.

• 2:14:52Griffin Newman?

  Fucking complicated delivery process.

• 2:14:54David Sims?

  Water or air into water or something.

• 2:14:57Griffin Newman?

  I have to text Minnick to figure out a time.

• 2:14:59Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm supposed to, like, bring a trinket, like, I have to have an offering here.

• 2:15:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, like this.

• 2:15:04Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 2:15:05David Sims?

  We're done because we have to do Tank Girl. And Kenny has to go see.

• 2:15:09Speaker 03

  Uh, If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You. The, uh, the movie for, for moms who are separated from their children, as I am right now. And maybe, will it make me want, never want to go home? We'll see.

• 2:15:18David Sims?

  Uh, possibly.

• 2:15:19Griffin Newman?

  I might, I might give you some little avatar stories to bring back to the boys.

• 2:15:21Speaker 03

  Oh, we'll be ready.

• 2:15:23David Sims?

  I don't think this is gonna be worth it. Very quickly, I looked up alternate titles for the foreign markets. Uh, Love is Expensive in Argentina and Brazil.

• 2:15:31Speaker 03

  That's pretty good.

• 2:15:32David Sims?

  Uh, Japan, Divorce Show. Good. Okay. My favorite, Austria, is Anne, uh, parentheses, I am, close parentheses, possible case.

• 2:15:43Speaker 03

  That I don't, I don't get it.

• 2:15:44David Sims?

  An impossible, I don't know.

• 2:15:46Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:15:47David Sims?

  And possible and impossible.

• 2:15:49Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:15:50Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:15:50Speaker 03

  It's got layers.

• 2:15:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:52David Sims?

  I think David's giving me kind of a.

• 2:15:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:53David Sims?

  Intolerable cruelty is one of the, it sounds like the title of a USA show.

• 2:15:58Speaker 03

  Oh, you don't think it was a good title?

• 2:16:00David Sims?

  It's okay.

• 2:16:00Speaker 03

  It's before suits existed and royal pains or whatever else.

• 2:16:04Griffin Newman?

  In 2003, it sounds like necessary roughness.

• 2:16:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:16:07Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 2:16:08David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:16:08Griffin Newman?

  But it's like.

• 2:16:09David Sims?

  It's fine.

• 2:16:09Griffin Newman?

  You'd believe that there's like a, a 10 star Hepburn Tracy movie called Intolerable Cruelty.

• 2:16:15David Sims?

  100%. Or, or, or fucking Rock Hudson movie. Yeah. It's like, yes, yes. A hundred percent. That is true.

• 2:16:22Griffin Newman?

  You're the best.

• 2:16:23Speaker 03

  So happy to be back here.

• 2:16:24Griffin Newman?

  Far too long.

• 2:16:25Speaker 03

  What a thrill. I gotta get back to New York more.

• 2:16:27Griffin Newman?

  You do.

• 2:16:27Speaker 03

  And give me the finger guns.

• 2:16:28David Sims?

  Episode came out last year. I think we may have recorded.

• 2:16:30Speaker 03

  That's true. We recorded, as I said, when, before we started recording, it was right before I started the terrible endless process of being laid off. So I was like, I have a job that I like. And then by the time it came out, everything was insane, but it all worked out.

• 2:16:42Griffin Newman?

  It all worked out.

• 2:16:42Speaker 03

  Because I have a new job that I really like.

• 2:16:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, people should follow everything you're doing on the anchor.

• 2:16:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can, I'm gonna promote because Prestige Junkie, I've got the podcast that's free to everybody, but we have a paid tier now where you can get extra stuff. Chris Rosen and I are talking about award season, some real nerdy nonsense. So.

• 2:16:57Griffin Newman?

  Mr. Andora takes.

• 2:16:58David Sims?

  You and Chris Rosen?

• 2:16:59Griffin Newman?

  You're interviewing great people.

• 2:17:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's been fun.

• 2:17:01Griffin Newman?

  I feel like you and David are united in the idea that Sandler is gonna win the Oscar this year.

• 2:17:06David Sims?

  I'm at least floating it. I'm not like locking it down.

• 2:17:09Speaker 03

  My, my super hot take is that Happy Gilmore 2 and how well that did and how many people are in it was like a really good, like, that's good, that's pushing and forward.

• 2:17:17Griffin Newman?

  I listened to this episode.

• 2:17:17Speaker 03

  They're both Netflix movies. Like, I think it's all there.

• 2:17:20Griffin Newman?

  Take that it is, it is emblematic of a level of love.

• 2:17:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:24Griffin Newman?

  And just like acceptance in like, you are part of the firmament.

• 2:17:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, that movie is so cheerful and like heartfelt in this way that it just makes you more affectionate toward Adam Sandler, even if you don't like it that much.

• 2:17:35Griffin Newman?

  And that people forget that for 20 years, the industry would be like, oh, we hate our most successful movie star.

• 2:17:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:40Griffin Newman?

  They would throw him under the bus at every opportunity they got and be like, we're ashamed that he's our most consistent.

• 2:17:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, he keeps making all this money for us.

• 2:17:47Griffin Newman?

  And now I feel like he's just accepted as like part of Mount Rushmore.

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. And God, I mean, speaking of Clooney, like, I'm so ready for, I guess by the time this airs, it will have premiered at Venice. So the world will know if, uh, if they got the goods. I'm ready.

• 2:17:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Thank you for being here.

• 2:18:01Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:18:04Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 2:18:04David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:18:05Griffin Newman?

  Did you order our lunch?

• 2:18:06David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:18:06Griffin Newman?

  I can't wait.

• 2:18:07David Sims?

  Great. I'm excited to eat it. We gotta watch Tanker right away because I have to go to physical therapy.

• 2:18:11Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Thank you all for listening. Please remember-

• 2:18:13David Sims?

  My shoulder hurts.

• 2:18:14Griffin Newman?

  To rate, review, and subscribe. Everything in my body hurts. It's not a competition. I wasn't trying to one-up you.

• 2:18:18David Sims?

  I understand that. It's just one of those things where my shoulders hurt for three months and I'm like, I guess I gotta deal with this now because I'm old. Like, it just won't stop hurting.

• 2:18:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:25David Sims?

  I know why. It's because of the babies, but like, yeah.

• 2:18:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Oh, that's a good call.

• 2:18:30David Sims?

  Yeah, I hold that one.

• 2:18:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, they weigh, they weigh pounds.

• 2:18:33Griffin Newman?

  When are they gonna start standing? Soon?

• 2:18:37David Sims?

  Standing? Oh, oh, [BLEEP] is standing. Uh, whatever, sorry.

• 2:18:40Griffin Newman?

  Bebop.

• 2:18:40David Sims?

  Bebop.

• 2:18:41Speaker 03

  Bebop?

• 2:18:42David Sims?

  I don't know. We have to be telling, we have to do Tanker.

• 2:18:45Griffin Newman?

  Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

• 2:18:49Griffin Newman?

  Tune in next week for The Ladykillers, what we can all agree is their worst film, even though I will mount a half-hearted, partial defensive-

• 2:18:57David Sims?

  That, that one is, right. I will, I would struggle with, it's not their worst film, from somebody.

• 2:19:01Griffin Newman?

  But I was just like, you could rank In Talbot Cruelty as their second worst, and I wouldn't even argue with that because you're only putting masterpieces ahead of it.

• 2:19:08Speaker 03

  That's the thing, is I would defend this movie a lot, but it'd still be like, what am I gonna put below it, other than Ladykillers?

• 2:19:13Griffin Newman?

  It's bottom five for me. We'll see where it wins the ultimate ranking.

• 2:19:16David Sims?

  It's probably top of the bottom five for me, too.

• 2:19:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. You're the greatest defender and you're like, top of the bottom five is the second joke.

• 2:19:21David Sims?

  So, they've made a lot of good movies.

• 2:19:22Griffin Newman?

  They made a lot of perfect films. Um, and we'll continue to talk about them. And as always, we're gonna nail your asses. We're gonna nail every one of your asses.

• 2:19:35Speaker 03

  Every person out there.

• 2:19:43Speaker 02

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by L.A. Montgomery in The Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 2:20:28Speaker 02

  Follow us on social @BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.