The Ladykillers with Connor Ratliff

We must have waffles forthwith! We must also have Connor Ratliff on the pod to talk about Tom Hanks for the first time since the completion of his Dead Eyes series! Join us for a spirited discussion about 2004’s The Ladykillers, a film that is universally regarded as the Coens’ worst, and is also the film that ended Hanks’ legendary decade-long boffo box office streak. We’re getting into defining the parameters of the world of “Weird Hanks.” We’re getting into the…uh…uncomfortable racial depictions that mar this movie. We’re getting to the “Root of the Matter,” and we’re getting Connor to softlaunch an incredible new term - “Mooseporting.” Listen to Dead Eyes https://open.spotify.com/show/5dEsgMhmVy7wK8TSUrVnsQ Listen to the Audiobook for The Making of Another Major Motion Picture Masterpiece https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Making-of-Another-Major-Motion-Picture-Masterpiece-Audiobook/B0BFBYQVQM?ipRedirectOverride=true&overrideBaseCountry=true&bp_o=true&language=en_US&source_code=GPAPP30DTRIAL5480813240005&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20983884474&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8p7GBhCjARIsAEhghZ2cvlbtKrXA6cZggGzTh2nZelgfkHktKptCdQ5pLN70NyQ9I0l9wpsaAvNsEALw_wcB Watch the second David S. Pumpkins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUmiB30Q8A Listen to Connor talk to Bobby Moynihan about David S. Pumpkins https://headgum.com/dead-eyes/04-any-questions Read the David S. Pumpkins Oral History https://www.vulture.com/article/david-s-pumpkins-saturday-night-live-tom-hanks-creation-oral-history.html Check out Does the Dog Die https://www.doesthedogdie.com/ Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31David Sims?

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 0:33David Sims?

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Griffin Newman?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37David Sims?

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10David Sims?

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39David Sims?

  Have you all decided?

• 1:40Griffin Newman?

  Madam, we must have podcasts. We must have podcasts forthwith. We must all think and we must all have podcasts and think each and every one of us to the best of our ability. I don't know why it went British.

• 1:49David Sims?

  It did go British. I, uh.

• 1:51Griffin Newman?

  Madam, we must have what? Fuck.

• 1:53David Sims?

  I remember that being like a key part of the trailer, right?

• 1:57Griffin Newman?

  It's one of two big touchstone comedies based on breakfast starches in their ad campaign. That was the main push.

• 2:06David Sims?

  What was the other?

• 2:07Griffin Newman?

  In real life.

• 2:08David Sims?

  God, that, that guy.

• 2:10Griffin Newman?

  Ladykillers was going waffle forward, Dan was going pancake forward. This may be the worst opening of an episode we've ever done.

• 2:15David Sims?

  Absolutely not. It's a good opening, but I wanted, I just.

• 2:18Griffin Newman?

  Madam, we must have, can our guest, do you feel like you can do a professor?

• 2:22Speaker 03

  No, not right now. I don't think I can.

• 2:23Griffin Newman?

  Madam, I was watching last night.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  We must have podcasts.

• 2:26Griffin Newman?

  We must have podcasts.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  Madam, we must have podcasts. We must have podcasts both with.

• 2:30Griffin Newman?

  The fact that we can't do it proves that it's a good performance and a good movie. Glad we settled that. Thank you all for listening. Please remember.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  I do like, I do like your starting off saying this is the worst episode that you've, that you've ever done.

• 2:43Griffin Newman?

  This is totally.

• 2:43David Sims?

  Stop putting it in people's heads.

• 2:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes, what are you doing? This is like completely normal for us.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  This episode is off to a terrible start. I think it might be the worst episode you've ever recorded and we're only, we're minutes into it.

• 2:56Griffin Newman?

  And that's also a Webby award winning podcaster saying that.

• 2:59David Sims?

  That's true. You know, from P cast.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  A real low point for me.

• 3:02Griffin Newman?

  And the.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  For all of us.

• 3:03Griffin Newman?

  Winning the Webby?

• 3:04Speaker 03

  And the Webby's, yeah. No, no, the, this is a low point for the Webby's. The Webby's been like, oh geez.

• 3:08David Sims?

  Fuck, one of our winners is on some bad podcast.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  This is bad, a bad day for the Webby's.

• 3:13Griffin Newman?

  I want to say that this is maybe the best episode we've ever done. I want to, I want to change the messaging right here. I want to say you were correct, David, that the waffles were.

• 3:21David Sims?

  It was a big thing. It was like, the trailer was like, and just wait until Tom Hanks orders waffles in this funny voice.

• 3:27Griffin Newman?

  It was the push.

• 3:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:28Griffin Newman?

  I was looking for the monologue where he tells her that they are in fact criminals. I wanted to change that criminals to podcasters. Was not on the R M D V page, quotes page, which is quite long.

• 3:38David Sims?

  I think someone tried to transcribe it and fell asleep.

• 3:41Griffin Newman?

  Fuck you.

• 3:43David Sims?

  No, Griff, Griff, I don't hate this movie, but let's not go to the bat saying we love this movie.

• 3:50Griffin Newman?

  We don't love it. I think it's good.

• 3:53David Sims?

  This movie made me, I gotta say, a little uncomfortable watching it in 2025.

• 3:57Griffin Newman?

  There's stuff in it. I will.

• 3:58David Sims?

  Movie is pretty racist.

• 3:59Griffin Newman?

  There is stuff in it.

• 4:00David Sims?

  I was just gonna lead with that.

• 4:02Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna agree with you. Here's the thing. When I walked out of this movie in 2004.

• 4:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 4:07Griffin Newman?

  My first two comments were, that's not as bad as everyone's saying.

• 4:09David Sims?

  Sure.

• 4:10Griffin Newman?

  Followed immediately by, pretty racist.

• 4:12David Sims?

  Not sure the Coen should be just writing, I don't. When is this set?

• 4:19Griffin Newman?

  2004.

• 4:19David Sims?

  Yeah, what's going on there, my friend?

• 4:22Griffin Newman?

  There was a moment, I don't know if you remember, when the Coens were getting kind of ransacked in interviews with the Oscar so whites question.

• 4:29David Sims?

  Yeah, it was later. It was later in their careers.

• 4:31Griffin Newman?

  Like, like around, like True Grit, Lewin Davis era.

• 4:34David Sims?

  Right.

• 4:34Griffin Newman?

  And Ethan had a comment that people thought was kind of snarky and dismissive, right? And everyone was like, classic white filmmakers upholding white supremacy, refusing considering black characters.

• 4:45David Sims?

  Was like that, but.

• 4:46Griffin Newman?

  A corner of the internet was like that. And I just wanted to tell those people, maybe watch The Ladykillers and circle back and tell me if you think they should. Now, I think it's primarily a corner of characters.

• 4:57David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 4:58Griffin Newman?

  The Marlon Wayans character is a giant problem. And it was another thing walking out of this movie where I was like, man, Marlon Wayans is bad in that. And the two times I've rewatched it in the last five years, I'm just like, he was doing exactly what they asked him to do. And what they asked him to do was not great.

• 5:13David Sims?

  I think so. I don't know. It's not like I'm right. I'm like, oh, they have hatred in their hearts.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  I have a question, though. I have a question about how tightly scripted Marlon Wayans' character was.

• 5:24David Sims?

  You always hear that the Coens, everyone is tightly scripted.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  Everyone is tightly scripted. Do we feel as if Marlon Wayans' character, if we were to look at the shooting script for The Ladykillers, which I am assuming none of us have?

• 5:37Griffin Newman?

  None of us have. Don't think it's been published.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  How tightly scripted do you think that character is on the, on the, compared to most Coen Brothers?

• 5:44Griffin Newman?

  Here, here's the thing. I.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  I feel like there might have been some improv.

• 5:49Griffin Newman?

  Interesting, because I watched this and I think if they had just let him improvise, it probably would be funnier and less offensive. I think this reads big time as hyper literate, incredibly strong dialogue writers being like, how do those young black people talk? It is overwritten, but it very much feels to me like he's trying his best to make it sound natural.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Make it his own?

• 6:14Griffin Newman?

  And yet I was like rewatching it with the subtitles on really kind of like wrestling with that question. And I'm like, I can see Joel and Ethan typing this out and being like, I think we've hit it, right?

• 6:25David Sims?

  Game of the character is that he just says the N word a bunch?

• 6:31Griffin Newman?

  That's one of his games, I'd say.

• 6:34David Sims?

  That's what they. Thought was funny.

• 6:35Griffin Newman?

  Kind of, kind of.

• 6:38David Sims?

  I don't think the character has much of a game, which is almost more annoying because the other criminals kind of do like have more of a specified bit. Sure, for sure. And the week with Marla Wayans, they're kind of just like, yeah, I don't know. He's just like a loser.

• 6:57Griffin Newman?

  It's loud, angry black man.

• 6:58David Sims?

  Right. He's just bowel mouth.

• 7:00Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 7:01David Sims?

  You know, I guess.

• 7:02Speaker 03

  But he's the one who who is the inside man.

• 7:04David Sims?

  They keep stressing that he is the inside man.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  Well, that not only are they stressing it, it is actually a fact of the text.

• 7:10David Sims?

  It's what he's what he's there for.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  He works at the casino, so he is the one who has access. So this is not like something that the characters are.

• 7:17David Sims?

  We're studying. He loves big butts.

• 7:19Griffin Newman?

  He loves.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  And he cannot lie.

• 7:21Griffin Newman?

  He can't lie about it. In fact, it is sort of his fatal character flaw is when he sees a big butt, he must have a conversation with it.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's he's honest to a fault.

• 7:31Griffin Newman?

  We're building a good bed for me to mount a defense of this movie is okay.

• 7:34David Sims?

  This movie begins with the wonderful R. P. Hall coming in to the police to complain about the hippity hop music.

• 7:41Griffin Newman?

  To the wonderful George Wallace.

• 7:43David Sims?

  Would love to see him.

• 7:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 7:44David Sims?

  To complain about the hippity hop music that, you know, her tenant is playing. And I'm like, oh, okay. So this is set maybe, is this set in like the late seventies when like hip hop music would have been a sort of a new thing for a woman like this to reckon with?

• 7:58Griffin Newman?

  It's set in 2004.

• 8:00David Sims?

  And they're listening to Tribe Called Quest, a song that came out in like the fucking late eighties.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I will say, I will say, as someone who came from the Midwest.

• 8:09Griffin Newman?

  Probably the last rap album that Joel and I can ever listen to.

• 8:12David Sims?

  Took a while for culture to.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  The joke is.

• 8:15David Sims?

  Transmit.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Is that things are on a different timetable that like.

• 8:19David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Something that you hear that's like, oh, is that a new song? And it's, and then it's like, well, it's new to her.

• 8:26David Sims?

  Now, where's this set? I will also ask.

• 8:28Griffin Newman?

  Alabama?

• 8:29David Sims?

  Because Bob Jones University, which of course is cited a lot, that's in South Carolina.

• 8:34Griffin Newman?

  Oh, okay.

• 8:34David Sims?

  It's in the South.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 8:36David Sims?

  Uh, maybe why not? I guess that I know.

• 8:37Griffin Newman?

  Martin Wayne's character, Gawain.

• 8:39David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 8:40Griffin Newman?

  Is his last name, it's not McKid.

• 8:42David Sims?

  It's Mexam.

• 8:43Griffin Newman?

  Mexam.

• 8:44David Sims?

  I don't really.

• 8:45Griffin Newman?

  Gawain Maxam.

• 8:47David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:47Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he is, I think, the turnkey that this film is supposed to be set in the present day. I think this is their best approximation.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  We have cultural references that can help us to narrow it that at this point, um.

• 9:00Griffin Newman?

  He's the most obvious tongue character.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  Uh, Bobbit, the Bobbit reference is, uh, post Bobbit incident, uh, post Bobbit, uh, shooting porno movies.

• 9:11Griffin Newman?

  Post Frankenpenis.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  Post Frankenpenis.

• 9:14Griffin Newman?

  Post Frankenpenis. And we can use that as a barometer for the rest of this podcast going forward. Our movie's set.

• 9:21David Sims?

  Pre or post Frankenpenis?

• 9:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 9:23David Sims?

  So what's the podcast?

• 9:24Griffin Newman?

  It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 9:26David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 9:27Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmography. His directors who have massive success early on in their careers. They're given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. We are looking at what has to be the single biggest bounce of their career. If only because it is the only movie of theirs that really has no reclamation project.

• 9:50David Sims?

  Not really.

• 9:51Griffin Newman?

  Horribly received when it came out. I was looking at the numbers and it's like, it actually didn't lose money and outgrossed many of their films. And yet it was undeniably seen as a huge flop, considering it was a Disney release.

• 10:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 10:07Griffin Newman?

  Starring Tom Hanks. It is the film that breaks Tom Hanks' decade-long hundred million dollar streak.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, but also we have.

• 10:15Griffin Newman?

  His first pink in the armor.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  I also think we have to look at this from the point of view that as a debut film, um, you know, every, every, uh, every. Cause it's the first film by the Coen brothers.

• 10:26Griffin Newman?

  It's the first film by the Coen.

• 10:27David Sims?

  That Joel Coen had, had a little experience under his belt.

• 10:30Griffin Newman?

  Do you know this weird fact, Ben? This is

• 10:33Speaker 03

  This is the first Coen Brothers movie directed by the Coen Brothers.

• 10:35Griffin Newman?

  As we talked about.

• 10:36David Sims?

  Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:38Griffin Newman?

  With with Chris White's.

• 10:39David Sims?

  Yes.

• 10:40Griffin Newman?

  And and how difficult the DGA makes it to be recognized as a pair. This one is the first time a movie is directed by Joel and Ethan Coen.

• 10:49David Sims?

  And it shows.

• 10:49Griffin Newman?

  It shows.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  They're they're figuring it out.

• 10:52Griffin Newman?

  Like figuring it out.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  There you can feel it in every frame of this film. These these guys are like, how do we do this?

• 10:59Griffin Newman?

  Two headed director. Um, this is a miniseries on the films of Joel and Ethan Coen. For the first time. As a teacher.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is the first time that that these brothers say, let's direct a movie together, not just like, I'll direct a movie, you produce.

• 11:12Griffin Newman?

  Ethan's just standing back crunching the numbers.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  Just breathing down his neck.

• 11:17Griffin Newman?

  Guy loves producing.

• 11:18Speaker 03

  What do you do anyway?

• 11:21Griffin Newman?

  It's a miniseries called No Pod Country for No Cast.

• 11:25David Sims?

  Old Cast.

• 11:26Griffin Newman?

  God damn it.

• 11:27David Sims?

  Jesus.

• 11:28Griffin Newman?

  We keep getting it wrong.

• 11:29David Sims?

  You keep getting it wrong.

• 11:31Griffin Newman?

  Country for Old Cast Singular.

• 11:34David Sims?

  Sure, whatever.

• 11:36Griffin Newman?

  That's what the artwork says. It's official now. This is our episode on 2004's The Ladykillers, a remake of 1955.

• 11:44David Sims?

  Correct. The Alexander McKendrick movie.

• 11:46Griffin Newman?

  The Ealing comedy. And today on the show, returning for the, well, the math here's a little tricky.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  Oh, let's let's get an accurate number.

• 11:57Griffin Newman?

  Connor Ratliff.

• 11:58David Sims?

  Here he is.

• 11:59Griffin Newman?

  Has appeared main feed.

• 12:01David Sims?

  As himself or or in?

• 12:03Griffin Newman?

  Well, who else would I be talking about? I'm talking about Connor Ratliff. Has appeared main feed. I believe this is number three somehow only.

• 12:11David Sims?

  You appeared on a commentary episode in our Phantom Podcast days. And then you did Twin Peaks, The Return main feed. You've also done Twin Peaks, Season Two with us. That was on Patreon.

• 12:23Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh. And George Lucas appeared three times.

• 12:26David Sims?

  Uh huh. Just twice, I'm seeing.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Just twice.

• 12:28Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I believe. There was one time in studio where we had a talk with him. There was live show at the Bell House, and then you're of course forgetting Denim Invasion. Live at the Del Close Marathon.

• 12:40David Sims?

  Not listed on the Wikipedia, I will say.

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. How do you change a Wikipedia?

• 12:45David Sims?

  I don't know. Just saying, it's not listed.

• 12:47Griffin Newman?

  George was definitely part of it.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Someone needs to list it.

• 12:50David Sims?

  We got a shout out.

• 12:51Speaker 03

  And also both Broadway shows.

• 12:54Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 12:54David Sims?

  It does say in the denim invasion entry, they note cameo appearances from Diana Kolski, Murph Mayer and.

• 13:02Griffin Newman?

  Now you're playing radio. Yeah. But this is right. This is true. Also, Peter Jackson and Sir.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  Two characters.

• 13:12Griffin Newman?

  Sir Bling.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  Characters, really.

• 13:13Griffin Newman?

  Who then became Joe Shack.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess one character with an alias.

• 13:17David Sims?

  Sort of like Professor Door is.

• 13:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:21David Sims?

  Well, I guess he has.

• 13:22Griffin Newman?

  Producer Ben, you were gonna make a.

• 13:24David Sims?

  Season two episode for us on Patreon was a really like big.

• 13:29Griffin Newman?

  That was, that was big.

• 13:30David Sims?

  Episode where he got a lot of new fans.

• 13:32Griffin Newman?

  What they call a driver in the biz. It was a driver.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  I mean, it was very important for me to be a part of that.

• 13:38David Sims?

  It's a good one.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. And if I can just digress, I know you don't like digressions, but I recently saw about half of Twin Peaks, The Return at the Metrograph.

• 13:49David Sims?

  Right. They played it all?

• 13:51Speaker 03

  They played it all. I wasn't able to attend all of it.

• 13:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 13:54Speaker 03

  It's weird because.

• 13:55David Sims?

  Were people kind of coming in and out? Like, was it a?

• 13:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, there was. I talked to some people who went for the whole thing. It was two days.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  On the one hand, because of the sound mix, which is a theatrical sound mix, which apparently

• 14:09Speaker 03

  the David Lynch hated the sound mix for TV because it's all compressed. So on the one hand, this is the way it is supposed to be seen.

• 14:16Griffin Newman?

  It's tenny.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  This is like the, it sounded different to me. Like, there were times when it felt silent at home, but in the theater, it felt like, oh, no, there's like so much sound happening. But on the other hand, absolutely not the way it's meant to be seen. Nine hours in one day and nine hours the next day. Just absolutely.

• 14:36Griffin Newman?

  Right. The way it's meant to be seen is 18 hours in one day.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  It is the parts that are, but I will say this as just a follow on comment from the season two episode as a reward to people who liked that episode and just want a little bit more. The Dougie Jones plot in Twin Peaks The Return, it never occurred to me anytime I saw it before this, how true it is to the spirit of all the plotlines people hate in season two. It is the most Little Nicky, it is the most Nadine, the superpowers, uh, who thinks she's back in high school. It is the most, like, it is just like all of those, like Ben thinks he's in the Civil War, all of those things. Dougie Jones is like, let's do a version of the, I don't think this is intentional necessarily,

• 15:21Speaker 03

  but it's like, let's do a version of this, of those kind of dopey plots.

• 15:25Griffin Newman?

  It's cantabite. It's like Ryan Johnson saying, we can't ignore the prequels.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 15:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, there has to be something that is on the same continuum as the energy of the prequel.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, like my favorite move from that being that, what can we do that kind of nods to the inappropriate stereotypes, but doesn't actually do anything wrong? So let's have like a little drunken leprechaun in the casino. This is the one thing we can do that's a little bit like a Jar Jar kind of move.

• 15:52Griffin Newman?

  We're allowed to make fun of the Irish, right? Ben Hozly, Connor Ratliff?

• 15:56Speaker 03

  I think, yeah.

• 15:56Griffin Newman?

  Approval?

• 15:57David Sims?

  Yeah. Um, all right.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  Anyway, end of that.

• 15:59David Sims?

  Can I speak to Tom Hanks's streak of $100 million gross?

• 16:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and let's just call out the reason Connor is on this episode is, over the last couple of years, Connor, you've started listening to the podcast again, and then you'll text me at errant times and say, if you ever do this, or I'd love to come on to talk about this type of movie. And you did a while ago, just pinned for me, I'd love to come on and talk about Hanks. So just let me know the next time you have a Hanks movie on the schedule, and this felt like a particularly fascinating one to do. You are currently wearing a big t-shirt.

• 16:28David Sims?

  Right, you had your podcast, Good Eyes.

• 16:31Speaker 03

  Good Eyes.

• 16:32Griffin Newman?

  Good podcast.

• 16:32David Sims?

  This guy's got good eyes.

• 16:33Griffin Newman?

  Dead eyes.

• 16:34Speaker 03

  And I want to be, clarify, uh, when you say I'm wearing a big t-shirt, he doesn't mean I'm wearing like an oversized shirt, like, oh, that'd be a good shirt to like, go to sleep in, like.

• 16:43Griffin Newman?

  No, although, what, it's an XL?

• 16:45Speaker 03

  It's an XL.

• 16:45Griffin Newman?

  Okay, yeah. It is a large shirt.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  It's an XL.

• 16:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's a comfy shirt.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  Extra large.

• 16:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  But it is specifically, and I love talking about Penny Marshall on the pod, uh, Penny Marshall is big. That's what the shirt is.

• 16:58Griffin Newman?

  That's what.

• 16:58David Sims?

  Um, but, uh, now, do we count that thing you do? Which interrupts his run?

• 17:03Griffin Newman?

  No, that's the one qualifier. It has to be leading role.

• 17:06David Sims?

  So if you take that out, the run is from Gump to cast me if you can. There's one bump.

• 17:14David Sims?

  If you, it can go even longer, all the way to League of Their Own.

• 17:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:18David Sims?

  But there's, Philadelphia only made 77 domestic.

• 17:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:22David Sims?

  But if you go.

• 17:23Griffin Newman?

  Give me the streak from, cause what?

• 17:26David Sims?

  I'll give you from League of Their Own.

• 17:27Griffin Newman?

  That's 91?

• 17:28David Sims?

  92.

• 17:29Griffin Newman?

  92, okay, give me.

• 17:30David Sims?

  Penny Marshall's League of Their Own.

• 17:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 17:31David Sims?

  I will, we'll say.

• 17:32Griffin Newman?

  We'll have you on to talk about that.

• 17:33David Sims?

  League of Their Own, Sleepless in Seattle.

• 17:35Griffin Newman?

  Hundred, hundred.

• 17:36David Sims?

  Philadelphia makes 77. Forrest Gump, obviously colossal hit.

• 17:40Griffin Newman?

  Tremendous.

• 17:40David Sims?

  Plus.

• 17:41Griffin Newman?

  One of the biggest hits of all.

• 17:42David Sims?

  Apollo 13, a gigantic hit. Toy Story, a big hit. Nothing You Do, We Don't Count, I guess. Saving Private Ryan, a colossal hit.

• 17:49Griffin Newman?

  Big, highest grossing film of the year.

• 17:50David Sims?

  You've Got Mail, a very solid hit. Toy Story 2, massive movie. Green Mile, for a movie that long and difficult, made a lot of money.

• 17:58Griffin Newman?

  What, it made 130?

• 17:59David Sims?

  That's right. Cast Away, Smug Smash Hit, Road to Perdition. I will say, if I'm, you know, the seismologist looking for the earthquake and the, you know, that's where you start to be like.

• 18:10Griffin Newman?

  It makes it to like 101.

• 18:11David Sims?

  Makes 104.

• 18:12Griffin Newman?

  But was even like, oh my God.

• 18:14David Sims?

  For a dark movie like that.

• 18:16Griffin Newman?

  Playing a murderer in July.

• 18:18David Sims?

  It did alright.

• 18:19Griffin Newman?

  In an austere period.

• 18:20David Sims?

  2002 Catch Me If You Can, obviously, you know, big hit, back to, and then Ladykillers and Terminal in 2004.

• 18:28Griffin Newman?

  That's what's fascinating.

• 18:28David Sims?

  Crashes into the wall doing broad comedy for great direct.

• 18:31Griffin Newman?

  In one year, he has two movies in a row, cause I, even when this bombed, I remember people being like, yeah, but he's got a Spielberg comedy coming this summer. He's gonna rebound really quick. And when Terminal ends up at 70, people were like, is Hanks cooked?

• 18:46Speaker 03

  And I'll confess, as we're looking through those numbers, there's something we're not even accounting for, which is, when I went to see Cast Away in the theater, I didn't buy a ticket for Cast Away. I bought a ticket for a different movie and then went into Cast Away, cause I was still feeling a little too salty.

• 19:01Griffin Newman?

  So you're saying that Cast Away's box office?

• 19:04Speaker 03

  Is, is low. The numbers are low.

• 19:06Griffin Newman?

  We have to.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  There's at least one ticket.

• 19:07Griffin Newman?

  Deduct $10. Do you remember what you bought a ticket for instead?

• 19:10Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't remember. What else would have been out at that time, Griffin?

• 19:14Griffin Newman?

  Well, let me, let me do this math, but just for listeners who don't know, the great Connor Ratliff, your podcast Dead Eyes was about the fact that coming out of drama school, you got a big job. One episode, one scene role in Band of Brothers, an episode directed by Tom Hanks, you were cast. The role was yours. The day before, they call you and say, you need to meet with Tom.

• 19:35David Sims?

  They need to re-audition essentially.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would already sign the contracts. They had cut my hair. It was ready to go. We were ready to film.

• 19:41Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he's having second thoughts.

• 19:42David Sims?

  Love that we're making you revisit this yet again.

• 19:44Speaker 03

  I don't mind, because Griffin's saying most of it, so I'm not having to.

• 19:47Griffin Newman?

  I'm doing it really quickly.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:48Griffin Newman?

  And they ended up recasting your role.

• 19:52David Sims?

  You hurriedly auditioned. It doesn't go well.

• 19:54Griffin Newman?

  The explanation you hear from your representation is Tom thinks you have dead eyes.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Before I did the re-audition, I was told this. So I went into the audition with like, holy shit, what do I do with this part that doesn't have a lot of dialogue, doesn't have a lot of opportunity to show off your emotional range?

• 20:09Griffin Newman?

  You lose the part. It's an albatross around your neck for many years. It defines a lot of your sense of self and your relationship to your career and the idea of pursuing, uh, life in the arts and all of these things. But the thing you always talk about on the podcast, which is great and people should listen to if they haven't already, is that

• 20:27Speaker 03

  And if you have apologies for all of this recapping, go ahead and hit that button that just moves you ahead 40 seconds.

• 20:33Griffin Newman?

  The, we call it the ad break button.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:35Griffin Newman?

  Uh, that he-

• 20:37Speaker 03

  Play the music under this part.

• 20:38Griffin Newman?

  Was possibly your favorite actor at the time.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  He's absolutely one of my favorite actors of, of all time.

• 20:45Griffin Newman?

  And what was so damaging about it was not just that you were fired from a big job, but that it was by someone who was one of your personal heroes and that it was also at the peak of Tom Hanks's, undeniably, America's favorite person. He's the nicest guy in the world. We all love him. And this guy ruined your life. And so would Castaway have been the first Hanks movie that came out post firing?

• 21:10Speaker 03

  Um, well, when I got fired, Green Mile had just been released-

• 21:13Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  -in England. And that was one of the things about the day I got fired, walking around London, seeing the posters.

• 21:18David Sims?

  Giant- This giant policeman man. I mean, he's a prison-

• 21:21Griffin Newman?

  This Drew-

• 21:22David Sims?

  But he just has a uniform.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  An angelic, a beautiful portrait of a, of a good man.

• 21:27Griffin Newman?

  Glowing.

• 21:27David Sims?

  A movie that listeners get mad when I diss it.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:30David Sims?

  But I think it's a very bad movie.

• 21:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, maybe give that one a watch again.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 21:33David Sims?

  Yeah. I will. Here's a little trivia cue I have for you guys. Read this sort of like, Hanks dominant, uh, figure of the nineties, right? As we just sort of illustrated. Post the lady killers. It's not like Tom Hanks has ever left our life. We love him. We can do hit indie podcasts about him and we can have him get COVID to prove the seriousness of a pandemic.

• 21:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 21:54David Sims?

  And a very many other things, but how many movies has Tom Hanks made? Live action.

• 22:00Griffin Newman?

  Live action.

• 22:00David Sims?

  I'm going to cut out Polar Express and the Toy Stories and all that because you know, those did well. That made over 100 million domestic.

• 22:07Griffin Newman?

  Domestic. Okay. So the first two Robert Langdon's.

• 22:09David Sims?

  Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons.

• 22:12Griffin Newman?

  Cause Da Vinci Code is definitely seen as a Hanks is strategizing how to have a surefire hit.

• 22:18David Sims?

  Right. What's the sort of more middle aged starring role?

• 22:21Griffin Newman?

  But that, but that is very much, I think, a post Lady Killer's terminal move of he needs to attach himself to IP and something that could be a franchise.

• 22:28David Sims?

  Da Vinci Code is a huge hit. Angels and Demons is a very mild hit.

• 22:31Griffin Newman?

  Right. Inferno Flops.

• 22:33David Sims?

  We're not even talking about.

• 22:34Griffin Newman?

  Captain Phillips did make 100.

• 22:35David Sims?

  It made 107 million dollars.

• 22:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 22:37David Sims?

  Obviously wonderful performance.

• 22:39Griffin Newman?

  Sully makes 100.

• 22:39David Sims?

  Sully made 125 million dollars. Not only are you getting this, you're getting them in order, Chris.

• 22:44Speaker 03

  David, David, did you ever watch my Crash Cut of Sully that I gave you last night?

• 22:48David Sims?

  Yes, I loved it.

• 22:49Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 22:51Griffin Newman?

  And is there one more?

• 22:52David Sims?

  There's one more.

• 22:53Griffin Newman?

  There's one more. There's one post.

• 22:55David Sims?

  And it's not a starring role.

• 22:57Griffin Newman?

  Elvis. Oh, yeah, there we go.

• 22:59David Sims?

  In which he, he noticed something about the fair singer Elvis Presley. What was it?

• 23:04Speaker 03

  His wife.

• 23:07Speaker 03

  Santa Claus.

• 23:09David Sims?

  What did he say?

• 23:11Speaker 03

  You will play Santa Claus. You'll sing Here Comes Santa Claus.

• 23:15David Sims?

  A performance where the seeds are being planted in the Lady Killer.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  I'm also, I am also going to put it out there. I don't want to talk anymore about Elvis on this episode because.

• 23:25Griffin Newman?

  I regret to inform you, that's impossible.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  No, I don't want to talk about, I won't participate. I'm going to remove myself from the conversation.

• 23:32Griffin Newman?

  You'll recuse yourself from the Elvis tangent.

• 23:34Speaker 03

  Because I will say that I'll put it out there. If Lerman ever wins one of the, I have put my name on the, that's one I text you about frequently. I want to do the Elvis episode because I have a lot to say about.

• 23:45David Sims?

  I want to do that.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  So if, you know, next March.

• 23:49David Sims?

  What's just interesting about looking at his career as I'm looking at it right now is it's like, he still makes these kind of grown up dramas that do pretty. Good, like Charlie Wilson's War did pretty good.

• 24:00Griffin Newman?

  Bridge of Spies does pretty good.

• 24:01David Sims?

  Bridge of Spies did quite well.

• 24:03Griffin Newman?

  Kind of grown up triples.

• 24:04David Sims?

  Um, and another one that did like, you know, the post made 80 domestic, 180 worldwide.

• 24:09Griffin Newman?

  His own kind of becomes more, he can take a grown up drama to 60 to 80, which very few other people can.

• 24:16David Sims?

  A man called Otto made like a fair amount of money not that long ago, despite being not very good and about a man called Otto. Like, it's like in Bridge of Spies, you're like, this is set during the Berlin, you know, wall, like the, you're like, oh, and men call it, what's it about? It's like, I don't know, there's some fuck called Otto.

• 24:32Griffin Newman?

  The film is pretty grim, dark.

• 24:34David Sims?

  It is quite a dark movie.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  That is a movie that really you see the star power, the star power is able, anyone else in that movie, it does not make that money.

• 24:43Griffin Newman?

  Like Tom Hanks getting a man called Otto to 65 is arguably more impressive than Hanks at his peak getting Apollo 13.

• 24:51David Sims?

  That's the last time Hanks made a movie that was big in theaters, I will say, because since then, and sort of around then.

• 24:58Griffin Newman?

  Two Wes Andersons.

• 24:59David Sims?

  Well, beyond that, I just want to point out, I want to point out, he's made some streaming movies, Greyhound, Pinocchio. News of the World was sort of like, that's a pretty good movie, but that was sort of a pandemic-y movie.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  It was that was Finch.

• 25:10Griffin Newman?

  Because his things were in this sort of like mid-tier grown up movie zone.

• 25:15David Sims?

  With budgets, but.

• 25:16Griffin Newman?

  But I think Sony had both Finch and Green, Greyhound, and like the moment the pandemic started, Sony sold both of them.

• 25:24David Sims?

  To Apple.

• 25:24Griffin Newman?

  He was like, one of the first guys where his movies went straight to streaming rather than theaters holding them back.

• 25:29David Sims?

  And Greyhound is pretty good.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  And those are, Greyhound and Finch are both movies I'd love to see in a theater.

• 25:34Griffin Newman?

  I really want to see in it.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  I keep waiting for there to be a moment when some of the pandemic, uh, streamies in particular, get even the slightest of. I think it'd be a great film festival to, for some theater do like six months of streaming.

• 25:49Griffin Newman?

  The curated, the streamies, the streamy era. But yes, as you said, those two movies got sold straight to Apple plus Greyhound was still, I think their most popular movie ever.

• 25:58David Sims?

  They're making a sequel.

• 25:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, Pinocchio, they decide it's going to stream before it starts filming. And then it turned out horribly, News of the World was like a same day VOD thing.

• 26:08David Sims?

  That's a good movie.

• 26:09Griffin Newman?

  Pinocchio, Robert Zemeckis's Pinocchio, probably the worst film he's ever been in.

• 26:13David Sims?

  It's a tough movie. And since then, he's done two Wes Anderson movies, uh, which he's excellent in both.

• 26:17Griffin Newman?

  He's got one great scene in Freaky Tales, a movie, I'm the only person who talks about it.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  Freaky Tales, I ordered it sight unseen because there was a point when I was making. Dead Eyes, uh, before we got to spoiler, spoiler for the most recent episode of Dead Eyes, uh, before I got to Tom Hanks and resolved everything with him. We are now on good terms. I want to say that.

• 26:38David Sims?

  You've talked to Tom Hanks.

• 26:39Speaker 03

  We have, we have had multiple interactions. He has been very good to me.

• 26:43David Sims?

  Have you interacted with him much since you interviewed him?

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 26:46David Sims?

  What do you just text him like?

• 26:47Speaker 03

  No, no, I don't take it. I have his email, but I do not take advantage of that. I, I emailed him once when the episode came out, but I've, he put me in his audio book.

• 26:56David Sims?

  Oh, that's.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  His audio book, which, um, he wrote a novel called The Making of Another Major Motion Picture Masterpiece. In, it is about the fictional making of a Marvel style superhero movie and about all the things that go on in movies. Said, there is an actor in that novel who gets fired.

• 27:13David Sims?

  And you voiced the actor.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  I voiced the actor.

• 27:15David Sims?

  That's fun.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  I voiced the actor who replaces the fired actor.

• 27:18David Sims?

  Oh, cool.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Specifically says that the fired actor has dark eyes. So that, his novel is very much, I feel in conversation in some small way with my podcast.

• 27:26Griffin Newman?

  Can we pin?

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:28Griffin Newman?

  Sorry.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:29Griffin Newman?

  What, uh, the email you exchanged, you had with him after the episode was released? I just want to circle back to that.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Yes, we can, absolutely. But Freaky Tale, like, I, I got into.

• 27:38David Sims?

  It tells of the Anna Boden Ryan Fleck.

• 27:40Griffin Newman?

  That I like and it has.

• 27:42David Sims?

  Anthology.

• 27:43Griffin Newman?

  Been roundly ignored and Lionsgate Limited put out a special VHS edition of the 4K.

• 27:47David Sims?

  It's on my to watch list.

• 27:49Griffin Newman?

  I liked it quite a bit.

• 27:50David Sims?

  I'm gonna check it out.

• 27:50Griffin Newman?

  Hanks kills one scene in it and his casting is really interesting, the way they use him.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  It's, it's really fun. Um, uh, I, but I, when I was doing the podcast, I decided I was going to own every Tom Hanks thing on Blu-ray or on whatever format, the, the best format I could get them on.

• 28:06Griffin Newman?

  Don't explain to me. It's how I interact with this podcast.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  And I decided, well, this is a good news. I'm investing in, like, I think I'm going to get to Tom Hanks. It was my way of sort of manifesting. I was gradually collecting all of his work and I have it on this little shelf in front of my desk. I also started doing it with Funko Pops because I realized.

• 28:22Griffin Newman?

  You have all the Toms.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  So many Tom, like a crazy number of Tom Hanks Funko Pops and variants.

• 28:28Griffin Newman?

  He's kind of the anti Griffin Newman in that sense.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  I. I did this because I thought I was gonna have the podcast would go on for 10 years before I got to him. And I had this vision of touring with live episodes where the Funko Pops would be like the set.

• 28:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 28:42Speaker 03

  But instead I just have this insane wall in my apartment.

• 28:45Griffin Newman?

  It is just one of the walls of your home.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  It's just like five different Forrest Gump's.

• 28:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  Also parts, characters that don't have a Tom Hanks Funko, but he played Walt Disney. So I have the Walt Disney. So I started expanding into that. But anyway, Freaky Tales.

• 28:59David Sims?

  Wait, can I pitch something?

• 29:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:00David Sims?

  Bring the show back and then make it about getting rid of the Funko Pops.

• 29:04Speaker 03

  I don't want to get rid of the Funko.

• 29:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. See, this is that kind of like buzzkill Ben energy.

• 29:08David Sims?

  I sort of thought that's what you were going with.

• 29:10Griffin Newman?

  I think this sort of weird stance of maybe you should stop buying toys.

• 29:13Speaker 03

  If I find out, if I find out I'm sick or something and I have a certain amount of time left, I will definitely do that show.

• 29:19Griffin Newman?

  They'll be the first thing to sell.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:21David Sims?

  Well, I hope then that it doesn't come back soon.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Oh, that's nice.

• 29:26David Sims?

  I would love it to come back to.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  I bought Freaky Tales sight unseen and I really enjoyed it.

• 29:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I like it a lot.

• 29:32Speaker 03

  And I do think to bring it back to Lady Killers, his performance in Lady Killers is part of this little corner of Tom Hanks, his filmography that I think of as weird Hanks.

• 29:45David Sims?

  I agree with you.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  And it might be the first.

• 29:47David Sims?

  I think it's kind of the first. That's what is, is looking at it. I'm like, oh, his career does start to change here.

• 29:52Griffin Newman?

  It is, I.

• 29:53David Sims?

  Or he seems more interested in taking risks.

• 29:55Griffin Newman?

  I feel like what you're talking about, which is what I found really interesting about this era of Hanks we're in, right? Which is he did some really smart, like, oh, Sully, Captain Phillips, who are real life figures.

• 30:07David Sims?

  Yeah, he'll still play in every man.

• 30:09Speaker 03

  Like he was doing all the forms of transportation and the most heroic person involved in a mishap. So like, who's the boat guy?

• 30:16David Sims?

  Submarine, plane, Captain Phillips, I guess, what is it?

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Polar, Polar Express, you got the train guy.

• 30:21David Sims?

  Although, honestly, as someone who's now seen the movie a billion times because of my daughter, he's malevolent in almost every form.

• 30:27Griffin Newman?

  Even as Santa Claus, that kind of bad vibe.

• 30:29David Sims?

  Very strange performance. I wanted to, Here is the other film he made.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 30:34David Sims?

  Remember Here?

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:36David Sims?

  Carry on, carry on.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  I had a, Griffin and I had a long conversation on a, on a ferry boat right after he watched Here, which I liked Here more than you guys did.

• 30:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 30:45Griffin Newman?

  I promised a lot of close people in my life that they were gonna hate Here as much as I did, and then had to listen to you and Alex Ross Perry and several others be like, you're wrong. Here is good.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  I, I don't know if I said it was good. I just felt like by the end of it, it had won me over on an emotional level.

• 30:59David Sims?

  It's certainly trying to do that.

• 31:00Griffin Newman?

  I'll say I'm really considering importing that Italian 4K.

• 31:05David Sims?

  They're not gonna do anything in the US.

• 31:07Griffin Newman?

  There's a Blu-ray only. And I'm just like, am I, is, am I really giving it a fair reconsideration if I'm not watching it with full pixels?

• 31:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta see all the kids.

• 31:17Griffin Newman?

  I gotta see the kids.

• 31:17David Sims?

  To me, the apex of Weird Hanks is Cloud Atlas, because that is just both a movie he talks about so fondly.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 31:25David Sims?

  Me too. And a movie where he's getting to be six weird Hankses.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Nothing but big swings. The whole movie is a movie made of swings.

• 31:32David Sims?

  One of the six characters is sort of a, a classic Hanksy guy. The guy with Halle Berry. Everyone else is Hanks being like, let me do this, let me do that. You know, like, and this Ladykillers feels like him beginning to open that toolbox.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  It's part of, I.

• 31:45David Sims?

  To poke around.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  If I were to consider like Tom Hanks's career like a map of a theme park, like a, like a Disney World style map.

• 31:53David Sims?

  Sure.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  The.

• 31:54David Sims?

  That kind of language I get, you know, or on this podcast.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  The weird, the weird Hanks area, the mayor of that area is David S. Pumpkins. Like, he rules over all of the Colonel Tom Parker and.

• 32:06Griffin Newman?

  This is great. Okay, so here's, here's the point I wanna make, right?

• 32:09David Sims?

  You know what? David S. Pumpkins still holds up.

• 32:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's still funny.

• 32:13David Sims?

  I watch it like every few months.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  The Halloween special?

• 32:16David Sims?

  That I have yet to check out.

• 32:17Griffin Newman?

  I think, here's what I think. I think the Halloween special is a little underrated.

• 32:21David Sims?

  Uh, sure, it's certainly not overrated. Nobody rates it.

• 32:24Griffin Newman?

  It's really slammed and I think it's a little funny. It's much like my taste, take on the Ladykillers, where I'm like, I'm not gonna argue this is a masterpiece. I think it's a little funny.

• 32:31David Sims?

  It's crucial that there is a sort of not very good sequel within the show to David S. Pumpkins and a Halloween special no one remembers. That's part of being a one-hit wonder SNL sketch.

• 32:41Griffin Newman?

  I think the second sketch was bad and was a mistake.

• 32:43David Sims?

  It was, it was definitely a mistake, but don't you think that's good? It makes David S. Pumpkins all the more special, because you're like, right, this isn't something that gets to recur. They tried and it failed.

• 32:52Griffin Newman?

  I think they waited so long to do the second one.

• 32:55David Sims?

  I don't even remember the second one. I don't like, what, what even happens in it?

• 32:58Griffin Newman?

  What is the premise?

• 32:59Speaker 03

  I think New York City is having like negative emotions and there's like this river of pink slime under the city and David S. Pumpkins has to deal with it.

• 33:07Griffin Newman?

  And they let, um, uh, Rick Moranis be Saved D. Pumpkins, his brother.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:14David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, it's like, it's a jumpscare attraction. This, I don't know.

• 33:18Griffin Newman?

  I'm trying to remember what the structure is. I remember it was in the fucking, what's his name? It was, uh, Jack Harlow was the host.

• 33:26David Sims?

  Yeah, that's correct.

• 33:26Griffin Newman?

  And he fucks it up. He's playing the Beck Bennett sort of reaction guy.

• 33:30David Sims?

  And he's, but the, the joke is that he's into it or something like they, they changed the, cause Beck Bennett is vital to David S. Pumpkins.

• 33:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 33:39David Sims?

  Like, I am so in the weeds with David S. Pumpkins is the best line in David S. Pumpkins. Either that or Leslie Jones saying, I'm crazy. Long beat for David S. Pumpkins.

• 33:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 33:50David Sims?

  Long wait.

• 33:51Griffin Newman?

  But Beck Bennett's got Swiss watch timing in that thing, which is so key to making it work. And Jack Harlow continues to be offbeat.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  Well, it's interesting because you think of early Hank's SNL and he's the king of guest recurring sketches. Cause you have Mr. Short Term Memory. You have him and Lovett as the two guys who like, uh, the creeps. And these things were Conan O'Brien written sketches. They were sort of built to recur. And then you have these classic late period Tom Hanks.

• 34:17David Sims?

  Come on, Celebrity Jeopardy, uh, Black Jeopardy.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  And they, and they, they are not built to repeat. So like when they come back.

• 34:23David Sims?

  Tried, yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  They tried, but.

• 34:24Griffin Newman?

  They brought that character back on the SNL 50th and they did the same beat and it didn't get laughs. I'm like, my guy, you're copying the same exact dialogue. People know the button.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  They probably need to get Conan to come in and write the second, uh, the recurring one.

• 34:38David Sims?

  It's even more fascinating because that was just a sketch they had that they would throw at everybody. And everyone was like, eh, maybe. And then remember like Hank said, like that he was like, Chris Hemsworth feels like a David S. Pumpkins. Like, I don't know if I should do this.

• 34:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 34:51David Sims?

  Anyway.

• 34:52Griffin Newman?

  They also, they talk about that, like he didn't have the take on the character until air, that he didn't have the voice and he didn't do the point thing.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  I do a whole episode of Dead Eyes talking to Bobby Moynihan that if you want to go deep into the weeds on how it happened, it's right there. Along with the oral history of David S. Pumpkins, which you can find online.

• 35:07Griffin Newman?

  He kept being like, I'll figure it out. I don't have it yet. And then it's just the one moment it matters.

• 35:12David Sims?

  His own thing. It's still funny. It still makes me laugh.

• 35:15Griffin Newman?

  It's still funny.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  And, and the roots of Pumpkins can be found in his performance in Ladykillers, I think in terms of like that.

• 35:20Griffin Newman?

  This is the theory I want to put out. This is the theory I want to put. I think he's good in this movie.

• 35:28Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 35:29David Sims?

  Yes.

• 35:30Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 35:34David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 35:39Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 35:40David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash just in time for the holidays.

• 35:48Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 35:56David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe. The sickest luxury items. Cookware to kicks, toys to high-tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once, okay? That's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 36:20Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score sweet deals and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 36:51Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 36:51David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 36:52Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 37:00David Sims?

  Lisa!

• 37:01Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 37:08David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. Uh, they've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 37:14Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:15David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 37:21Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, "Oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort."

• 37:25David Sims?

  No.

• 37:25Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 37:26David Sims?

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• 38:12Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 38:13David Sims?

  Yes?

• 38:14Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 38:34David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 38:54Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 39:10David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/ListenToDracula.

• 39:42Griffin Newman?

  This is the theory I want to put out.

• 39:46Griffin Newman?

  In the way he talked to you on Dead Eyes, right? Especially about his early career and him being like a summer theater festival Shakespeare guy, you know? A guy who had ambitions, but it does seem like he is still kind of surprised he became as big of a star as he did, right? That at some point he got slotted into sort of like inoffensive leading man territory in a way that got him sitcom guest roles and then TV movies and bosom buddies and all this sort of stuff. You know, he was sort of like, I was a guy at the moment. It kind of made sense. And then he just keeps evolving into becoming like America's truest North Star, right? And I do not get the sense that he's a guy who feels imprisoned by what the persona of Tom Hanks became.

• 40:30Griffin Newman?

  Everyone I know, whoever has worked with him, crew and cast alike, is like, that guy loves being Tom Hanks. Like, not in a self-centered way, but I have rarely see someone less burdened with their public reputation than Tom Hanks, who is happy to be Tom Hanks all the time. And yet, I do think you sense in him a little bit in the 90s where it's like, huh, I'm a victim of my own success.

• 40:52David Sims?

  I can't quite get out of this lane.

• 40:54Griffin Newman?

  In the sense that like, I wanted to be an actor and now I'm a little restricted in what I can do as an actor.

• 40:59David Sims?

  Like, what is his riskiest 90s performance? Let's exclude Bonfire of the Vanities or whatever, like very early 90s.

• 41:05Griffin Newman?

  It's League of Their Own. It's like, it was him playing bad.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  League of Their Own is my all-time favorite Tom Hanks performance.

• 41:12David Sims?

  He's so good.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  It's the time capsule one because it has all of the ambition and the striving of him doing something different, but it also has everything that's great about classic Splash Hanks.

• 41:23Griffin Newman?

  Agreed.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Because one of my frustrations as a fan of Tom Hanks is how infrequent-

• 41:30Griffin Newman?

  David's peeing.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  All right. You'll hear this.

• 41:32Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna make his own splish splash in the toilet.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 41:37Griffin Newman?

  And really project so he can hear while he's in the bathroom.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Or should this be just for us?

• 41:42Griffin Newman?

  Maybe it's just for us.

• 41:43Speaker 03

  Maybe this, maybe let, let's let him catch up.

• 41:45Griffin Newman?

  And let's keep referencing back to this, but not explaining what was said. Connor, make your point.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, um, basically, uh-

• 41:53David Sims?

  Wait, wait, David Sims, no, David, yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  David S. Simson.

• 41:58David Sims?

  Piskin.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  David S.

• 42:00Griffin Newman?

  Connor's gotta make his point before he flushes the toilet.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  So, um-

• 42:05Speaker 03

  I think Tom Hanks, I'm gonna have a lot of Hanks takes in this episode, but one of the things is in his own natural voice. Flush, flush, flush. Yeah. Fuck. I didn't make it. He's gonna feel completely caught up.

• 42:15Griffin Newman?

  David, great news. Connor waited for you to make this morning.

• 42:18Speaker 03

  I wanted you to, I didn't want to.

• 42:20David Sims?

  Please go ahead.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  Leave you out of it.

• 42:21Griffin Newman?

  He thought it'd be rude to keep talking.

• 42:23Speaker 03

  Tom Hanks in his own natural speaking voice, especially yelling, is one of, like, there's, there's no, there might be some who are his match, but there's no one better at yelling at another person in a movie that, that.

• 42:36David Sims?

  Yelling is 90% of Woody the Cowboy.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  The first thing that I. Because I'm gonna go absolutely personal. I'm a toy. Like, that's all that stuff.

• 42:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  No one else is as good. It really is. And the first thing I remember him doing in a movie that really had an impression on me was the, "I am not a fish" in Splash, where he's fully naked cupping his genitals. And I was just like, this guy is putting it all out there.

• 43:01David Sims?

  He doesn't put it all out there, though, and I will call his cowardice out.

• 43:05Griffin Newman?

  He's never shown dong?

• 43:05David Sims?

  I don't think so. I mean, I haven't checked every.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  But you haven't seen Freaky Tales?

• 43:10David Sims?

  No, I haven't.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  You don't know.

• 43:12David Sims?

  Maybe he hangs dong in Freaky Tales.

• 43:13Griffin Newman?

  You know what I said? He's got a really interesting small part.

• 43:15David Sims?

  It's just him standing there naked.

• 43:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 43:17David Sims?

  Sixty something. How old is Tom Hanks?

• 43:20Griffin Newman?

  He has to be upper 60s.

• 43:21David Sims?

  69 years old.

• 43:22Griffin Newman?

  Nice.

• 43:23David Sims?

  Yeah, brother. Just turned 69.

• 43:27Griffin Newman?

  But.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  But League of Their Own is that perfect thing. The, there's no crying in bed. There's no crying in baseball. It has that tone, that, that, it has that timber. There's that little scratch in it, whatever. He's getting mad.

• 43:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 03

  And it's, and we are deprived of that in a lot of, um, a lot of his post 90s work, or mid 90s on, is he's doing a dialect, or he's doing a different kind of voice. Woody is one of the rare things where you hear that Hanks voice.

• 43:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's part of the juice of the Toy Story franchises, becomes the one outlet for kind of a classic Hanks that's frozen in time because it's a, a different physical representation, but he can still give it that energy vocally. Here's, here's kind of my master take I want to throw out, right? Big is the moment that like completely meant him as a star. He gets the Oscar nomination. And then infamously, he kind of like missteps for the next handful of years after Big.

• 44:21David Sims?

  He can't quite find what he's supposed to be doing. He stays in the big lane of like doing kind of like. Comedy, dramedy.

• 44:30Griffin Newman?

  Cause Big is a weird example of-

• 44:32David Sims?

  Turner and Hooch, Joe versus the volcano.

• 44:33Griffin Newman?

  A studio comedy that gets an acting nomination. So it's sort of like, okay, so I'm a more serious comedy star, but right. Punchline, The Burbs, Turner and Hooch, Joe versus the volcano, Bonfire the Vanities.

• 44:43David Sims?

  Bonfire the Vanities is the, is the nadir because he's horribly miscast. I've, and like-

• 44:49Speaker 03

  There's no bonfire in Vanities.

• 44:52David Sims?

  I mean, it is-

• 44:52Speaker 03

  Put out that fire.

• 44:54David Sims?

  You read the book and you're just like, how on earth? Like they should swap him and Willis.

• 44:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 44:58David Sims?

  Is I guess the simplest like solution. Cause Willis is also kind of miscast, although he actually, I kind of like-

• 45:05Speaker 03

  By the time they realized that, they'd already done that one opening shot and they're like,

• 45:08David Sims?

  With the plane, yeah.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  We can't reshoot it.

• 45:11Griffin Newman?

  Oh, with the opening.

• 45:13David Sims?

  And so, right, League of Their Own, which is two years later, is him hitting a reset button, taking a supporting role.

• 45:18Griffin Newman?

  And I think in those years, people were like, sort of, does he not get what he's good at? Right? League of Their Own was this ingenious, like, isn't the audience going to reject you? They're starting a movie playing a son of a bitch. Didn't this just backfire on Bonfire the Vanities? But he's really smart of like, the motor that movie needs is here's Tom Hanks having fun, playing washed out, playing angry, playing an asshole. But you see the Tom Hanks goodness in him, which gives you the arc over the course of the movie of we want to see this guy get his act together, right?

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Also, there's a shift I'll point out, and I don't know where you mark this exactly, but if you were to watch, just go through his filmography. The first, let's say, act one of his film career is very horny. Horny, horny Hanks.

• 46:05Griffin Newman?

  No, you're not wrong.

• 46:05David Sims?

  You're all make you horny.

• 46:07Griffin Newman?

  Eighties Hanks is pretty horny.

• 46:08David Sims?

  Yes, Bachelor Party.

• 46:09Speaker 03

  So horny, Volunteers.

• 46:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:12David Sims?

  Like Dragnet, he's all over Acro in that thing.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember a shot from Volunteers. I remember a shot from Volunteers where he's like having sex with someone in like the dorm room and-

• 46:24Griffin Newman?

  It's on simulator.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  It's just like, yeah, there's just so much stuff that you don't, if you start watching from like big on, you don't find it as much.

• 46:33Griffin Newman?

  No, because he becomes like America's old oak tree, right?

• 46:36David Sims?

  Yeah, he does have a lot of on-screen sex.

• 46:38Griffin Newman?

  The George Washington of- Cinema. And then, uh, the other thing is you're calling out dialects, but I'd argue like nineties, early 2000s, he's basically always staying within 10 degrees of his home base voice. Right? Yeah, yeah. Like, it feels like there's this conscious thing of like, I can do a little bit of a dialect, but if I try to sound less like Tom Hanks, the audience is going to reject it. And you'd see him do talk show interviews or you'd see SNL, which I'd argue is actually the starting point of Weird Hanks. Where like, once a year, once every other year, he comes on, he's a great host. People are like, man, he's so game. He can play all these different characters. And then people in the movies are like, but don't get too far away from that.

• 47:17David Sims?

  I'm gonna open the dossier.

• 47:18Griffin Newman?

  Then Catch Me If You Can, he's doing a big swing Boston accent and people are sort of like, huh, that leads to Lady Killer's Terminal. And as you said, Polar Express, which is a big hit, but all three of those movies are 2004. Polar Express is him trying to do Weird Hanks in a movie.

• 47:31David Sims?

  Sure, sort of. I mean, sort of.

• 47:33Griffin Newman?

  It's part of why the performances don't work.

• 47:34David Sims?

  I mean, the, the hobo especially and stuff like that. What's up? I'm gonna open the dossier.

• 47:39Griffin Newman?

  And then, and then from that point on, it's this balance between him finding sturdy adult fare and opportunities for Weird Hanks, but it does feel like when he's doing shit like Saving Mr. Banks.

• 47:52David Sims?

  He's a little, he's phoning it in, in something like Saving Mr. Banks.

• 47:55Griffin Newman?

  I think he's not bad in it and that's another one that makes like 80 or 90 or whatever.

• 47:59David Sims?

  That's him like putting the twinkle on autopilot.

• 48:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 48:03David Sims?

  Taking a nap.

• 48:04Griffin Newman?

  It, it is him feeling still, I gotta represent some idea of what Tom Hanks is. I would argue in the last five or 10 years, he's like, I fully do not give a shit anymore.

• 48:13David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 48:13Griffin Newman?

  And he doesn't do any calculation about like, is it beneath me to do one scene in Freaky Tales? The West parts aren't as big as you would imagine.

• 48:21David Sims?

  He loves doing the West parts. And like, when I interviewed Wes Anderson, it was so obvious, I think I said this, like how proud Wes is that Hanks came to set. And Wes is like, look, this is how we do it here. There's no trailers. We all live in the hotel. We all eat dinner together. Everyone is on set at all times. And Hanks was like, this rocks. I wish everything was like this. And apparently can just sit down in a chair and go like this. Like just go to sleep. Um, but he's so good in those movies. I still think he's concerned with boomer representation. Like here, that's a boomer movie. Greyhound, boomer. Like he's still like out there being like, don't worry. The boomers have their man on screen.

• 48:59Griffin Newman?

  When he's the guy.

• 49:00David Sims?

  When he's the guy.

• 49:01Griffin Newman?

  He's trying to mount a movie under his name, but I feel an energy from him showing up for literally one scene in Phoenician.

• 49:08David Sims?

  I said such a great scene.

• 49:09Griffin Newman?

  Feeling so free.

• 49:11David Sims?

  The Phoenician thing strikes me definitely also is him just being like, I really enjoy. I hope he like, I, I like going to that vacation.

• 49:20Griffin Newman?

  Also, I want to play. I just want to act. I want to not feel burdened by my reputation.

• 49:24Speaker 03

  I am so excited that possibly that he might be part of the ensemble in all future things.

• 49:29David Sims?

  The vibe.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  And eventually like we'll get our Steve Zizou, we'll get our Wes will do a movie that'll be like, let's give Hanks a really like.

• 49:36David Sims?

  Del Toro where it's like Wes keeps seeing him.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:39David Sims?

  And it's like, I keep thinking of you as like Aristotle on asses. And Del Toro apparently was just like, I could do that. And Wes is like, all right, like, hold that thought.

• 49:47Speaker 03

  The last thing I'll say is that, um, I had a thing and this is something I never, I always had it in my back pocket is like, oh, we could do a dead eyes episode that'll sort of explore this, but I never really talked about it because we never got around to it. And it is that the lady killer, see I'm tying it back in here. The lady killer's lands in an era where I had this observation about the movies that Tom Hanks was doing and why he was doing them. And it was frustrating to me.

• 50:14Griffin Newman?

  Connor taken, it's the main reason I wanted to make sure you're on this episode because this is a great example of it.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  The, the, well, the pre part of the take is I always felt like the best Tom Hanks movie that Tom Hanks never made was the Truman Show.

• 50:26Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 50:26Speaker 03

  Because I, I always felt like Jim Carrey was too weird to be playing. And the way he plays is like a weird guy. And I'm like, that movie I think makes more sense to me if it's, it's like the ultimate Tom Hanks movie. I'm just a normal guy. And then I find out this neighborhood is a TV show. As opposed to like, hi, I'm the guy who lives in the neighborhood and it's a TV show.

• 50:45Griffin Newman?

  Doing here.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  But I say that as that I always wished that was a Tom Hanks movie. I started looking at this period of movies where Tom Hanks would show up. In the movie after the one that would have been the slam dunk. Meaning he, he sees Shawshank Redemption. He's like, I gotta, I gotta do a film like that.

• 51:04Griffin Newman?

  What's that guy's next movie?

• 51:05Speaker 03

  What's Frank Darabont's next movie? I want to star in it. It's the Green Mile. Everyone's less favorite of the two.

• 51:10David Sims?

  But so.

• 51:11Speaker 03

  Still a good movie, but it's not Shawshank Redemption.

• 51:13Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, Hanks could have played Andy Dufresne. Like that was too risky a move for his stardom.

• 51:18Speaker 03

  Then you have, um.

• 51:19Griffin Newman?

  American Beauty.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  American Beauty, um, which I maintain, but even before all of the Kevin Spacey news. Um, I maintain that that movie is far more subversive if it was Tom Hanks playing that role. I think the whole movie works better because Kevin Spacey, even just his cinematic history, you're like, if he's cutting off Gwyneth Paltrow's head, he's a good guy. Like the, the bar is so low for.

• 51:48David Sims?

  Spacey was always a slime ball. That was his thing.

• 51:51Speaker 03

  Whereas.

• 51:51David Sims?

  Very back to working.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  Tom Hanks playing that role, I feel it would be like, oh my God, he's like really going through this midlife crisis.

• 51:57Griffin Newman?

  It would have been in American Beauty, that movie would still have some juice.

• 52:00David Sims?

  Tom Hanks jerking off in the shower, which is the start of American Beauty, would actually like sort of throw audiences out of their seat.

• 52:06Speaker 03

  And when I picture like the comedy.

• 52:07David Sims?

  But it's actually not possible. That movie couldn't be made. I'm serious. It would be too shocking.

• 52:11Griffin Newman?

  Even a dream works.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  It would have been, I think it would have been a great movie and the ending would have made sense. You wouldn't have, him being like, I don't, this isn't who I, this isn't who I am. The decency of that last scene and the tragedy of that movie would have felt like.

• 52:26David Sims?

  I don't disagree with you.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  I'd still be crying about that movie if that was a Tom Hanks movie, but then he shows up for the next Sam Mendes film, Road to Perdition.

• 52:34David Sims?

  Which he's good in.

• 52:35Speaker 03

  He's good in. But when I think of what the Tom Hanks, American Beauty would have been, I would have been like, that would have been a movie that actually said something. Whereas when you cast America's favorite like sociopath as the main guy, you're kind of like, ah, okay.

• 52:50David Sims?

  Right. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  And then you have George Clooney, uh, doing Oh Brother, Aren't Thou, kind of making the Coen Brothers like movie stars can star in Coen Brother movies.

• 53:00Griffin Newman?

  It has to be the thing that Hanks is looking at that gives him the security.

• 53:03David Sims?

  Why can't I do that?

• 53:04Griffin Newman?

  I can do this. Yeah.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  And, and then you have this movie that has like T-Bone Burnett infused soundtrack. We're going like Americana, like.

• 53:11Griffin Newman?

  It is the closest cousin to Oh Brother in their filmography.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  And and I could you could always feel this thing of like, someone does something and then Tom Hanks will be like, I want to be in that next person's thing. And it always ends up being a little bit like, it's not quite the thing.

• 53:26Griffin Newman?

  And what is the movie that the Coens make right after Ladykillers? Three years later, but their immediate following film?

• 53:32Speaker 03

  No Country for Old Men.

• 53:33Griffin Newman?

  Correct. Like, you're, this is the other part of your argument I like is sometimes he's a little early.

• 53:38David Sims?

  Right. He, he's thought of the person to collaborate with, but he's picked the wrong.

• 53:42Griffin Newman?

  They're at the wrong point.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. Cause any, like, he is kind of.

• 53:45Griffin Newman?

  Primarily a filmmaker first actor.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  I weirdly can imagine Tom Hanks in any of those three roles in No Country for Old Men. Like, there's a version of that movie, I don't know if, which of those is the best. And it's hard to picture anything in that movie changing in such a drastic way and not feeling like a diminishment. But it is, there is part of you that has to feel like, oh, I do this movie. And then their next one is the one that like.

• 54:10Griffin Newman?

  And if they announced tomorrow that the Coens were reuniting and making a neo-Western, and Tom Hanks was one of the three leads, I'd be hooting and hollering. If the implication was that Hanks was going to be in a Coens movie in that mode at his current age, that's the other thing is he's got just like so much innate gravitas now that he can throw out.

• 54:32David Sims?

  The Ladykillers, of course, is an Ealing comedy directed by Ealing legend Alexander McKendrick. Have you guys seen The Ladykillers, 1955?

• 54:40Griffin Newman?

  I in fact rewatched it last night.

• 54:41David Sims?

  And how'd you find it?

• 54:42Griffin Newman?

  I like it a lot.

• 54:44David Sims?

  It's not my favorite Ealing comedy.

• 54:45Griffin Newman?

  Me neither.

• 54:46David Sims?

  Um, but, uh, it's, it's totally good.

• 54:48Griffin Newman?

  Now, both of you have.

• 54:50David Sims?

  And it has Alec Guinness doing this shit, you know, better than anyone can do it. Alec Guinness, who is one of the sort of 10 guys, I think, can make the argument for the greatest screen actor who ever lived. No offense to Tom Hanks.

• 55:02Griffin Newman?

  Who I like a lot. Well, the thing that's impressive with Alec Guinness is how versatile and chameleon-ic he was, while also being able to do a really incredible home base performance.

• 55:12David Sims?

  Right. And also he could sword fight like nobody else.

• 55:15Griffin Newman?

  He could do everything.

• 55:16David Sims?

  Take that, Art Vayner.

• 55:17Griffin Newman?

  Um.

• 55:19Speaker 03

  I only saw the original Lady Killers.

• 55:21Griffin Newman?

  David's doing some lightsaber.

• 55:22David Sims?

  I'm doing Obi-Wan's very forced lightsaber stuff.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  I only saw the original Lady Killers last week and I watched it in preparation for this.

• 55:29David Sims?

  Do you like the Ealing comedies? Do you have a base on the Ealing comedy?

• 55:31Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 55:31David Sims?

  I watched a lot of those when I moved to England.

• 55:33Griffin Newman?

  I have more of a relationship to British culture than I do. So I I'm kind of looking to you for a little bit of understanding on the original.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  I haven't seen. I don't know if I've even seen any other Ealing comedies.

• 55:42Griffin Newman?

  You ever see?

• 55:43Speaker 03

  I also, I lived in England for a while. I went to school in England. I didn't see any of the Carry On films and I didn't see any of the Ealing.

• 55:49David Sims?

  The Carry On films is one of those things where it's like, watch Carry On Camping or something and like, you're you're fine. The rest of them.

• 55:56Griffin Newman?

  It's an easy weekend. It's just forty seven movies tonight.

• 55:58David Sims?

  What is Carry On? They're they're the epitome of like old fashioned British comedy, which is basically like, you know, it's a bunch of situations happening.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  I wanna light the fire.

• 56:06David Sims?

  It's always like a lot of like, oh, you know, like, and like someone's top flies off and everyone's like, oh.

• 56:11Griffin Newman?

  But they were also, they were like the early British equivalent of like the Friedberg Seltzer, like date movie epic movie where you're like, three of these are coming. How do they turn them out so quickly?

• 56:20David Sims?

  And there's a posh guy who goes like, oh, you know, it's just, it's the epitome of like corny forties.

• 56:27Speaker 03

  I wanna, I wanna light the fire for the blankies on the Patreon. This sounds like a great Patreon series.

• 56:32Griffin Newman?

  It would only take us three years.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  All of the Carry On movies.

• 56:34Griffin Newman?

  Every year for decades, there'd be like three of them and they were like, Carry On Receptionist, Carry On Shoe Salesman, Carry On Ancient Rome.

• 56:44Speaker 03

  It just speaks to the sort of British tradition where uh uh their dedication to like uh ceremony is that if like you accidentally make something like a Carry On movie, then you have to keep making.

• 56:56Griffin Newman?

  It has to take the piss out of every single thing before the series can be retired.

• 57:00David Sims?

  So the Ealing comedies, Ben, just to to give context for listeners as well.

• 57:04Griffin Newman?

  They're the sophisticated counterpoint.

• 57:06David Sims?

  Uh, it's post-war. There's Ealing Studios, which Ealing is a neighborhood in West London, like that produces a lot of uh films that I really think epitomize Britain after the war. This kind of like chipper, sort of mordant, like it's it. They're very sweet, but they're a little dark. Um, and like Whiskey Galore, Kind Hunching Cornets is obviously a famous one. That's the one where Alec.

• 57:30Griffin Newman?

  The one I like the best, although I have not seen many of them.

• 57:33David Sims?

  Alec Guinness plays a bunch of roles. I highly recommend to anyone the Lavender Hill Mob, which is an amazing movie, really, really funny with Alec Guinness and Alec Guinness is in a ton of them. Man in the white suit, Barnacle Bill, the lady killer, you know, there's lots of them. They tend to be, you know, funny, but kind of dark comedies. And the Coen Brothers, I let's, what I want to know is what's their relationship to it? I guess a remake of The Lady Killers had been sort of at Fox since the mid 90s. Sorry, sorry, at Disney.

• 58:06Griffin Newman?

  At Disney. This makes perfect sense as a title to remake. There is a sort of just like simple log line for this movie. And especially because I think it is, it is kind of seen as one of the canonical classics in British comedy.

• 58:21David Sims?

  And it has a sort of simple setup of like a bunch of criminals are trying to get one over on this old lady. And like she somehow is indestructible.

• 58:28Griffin Newman?

  But it's not as well known here in the States.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  No, but it's a piece of IP and Disney had it. They have this, we got this, we got the lady killers IP.

• 58:35Griffin Newman?

  I guess they bought it in some way.

• 58:37David Sims?

  Robert Harling, who wrote Steel Magnolias, Steel Magnolias.

• 58:41Speaker 03

  Steel Magnolias.

• 58:42David Sims?

  Take them. In 1998 was announced as the writer and director of a touchstone lady killers remake. That was going to take the original London setting and bring it to the big, easy gnarly.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 58:53David Sims?

  And yes, this, this cup of tea was going to turn into a pot of gumbo.

• 58:59Speaker 03

  Snowgaters.

• 59:01David Sims?

  They're what? Sorry. Harling leaves the project and on comes Barry Sonnenfeld, the Coen Brothers cinematographer of yore.

• 59:11Speaker 03

  Get out of here, Harling Barry's here.

• 59:13David Sims?

  Who had just made Wild, Wild, Wild.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  It's a Bill Wild, Wild West.

• 59:18David Sims?

  And Wild, Wild West had not done very well. Nonetheless, he is prepping Men in Black two. He's also prepping Big Trouble. He's the one who brings in the Coen Brothers to polish the script because he's their old pal. It was a writing assignment. They obviously, the Coens had an English father. He's an American citizen who joined the army and like. But he was born in Britain or something like the Edward Cohn is the guy.

• 59:44Speaker 03

  And Joel and Ethan had written together before.

• 59:46David Sims?

  No.

• 59:47Speaker 03

  They never directed a movie together.

• 59:49Griffin Newman?

  But they've been writing together.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  They're as a writing.

• 59:51David Sims?

  They've grown up with the Ealing comedies and they love them. This is not a situation like True Grit coming up where they're like, fuck that movie. They, they have plenty of reverence for the Ladykillers.

• 1:00:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but, but also as we've said before, post Big Lebowski, which was really like a kind of knockdown moment for them. They start taking four higher writing gigs in a way they hadn't before and being like, you know what? Sure, we'll polish a script, we'll do a pass, we'll like on assignment, adapt your material. This was straight up just a gig for them. Now, can I jump in for a second? Cause this is not in the dossier, but I cross referenced with JJ. My friend Barry Josephson, producer of The Tick and Disenchanted.

• 1:00:32David Sims?

  But end of this.

• 1:00:34Griffin Newman?

  He was Barry Sonnenfeld's producing partner.

• 1:00:36David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:00:37Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a little bit more of a title than when I talked to him about it. He was not a very hands-on producer on this, but the two Barry's.

• 1:00:43David Sims?

  Would have been had Barry directed it, one assumes.

• 1:00:45Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 1:00:46David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:00:46Griffin Newman?

  So he was developing it with Barry Sonnenfeld for a very long time. He teams up.

• 1:00:51Speaker 03

  Is this the first time that they teamed up as the two Barry's?

• 1:00:53Griffin Newman?

  So he had been the head of production, I think, at Columbia Pictures. And then after Men in Black is delivered, he's like, this guy is going to be on such a hot streak. I'm leaving my position and going into business with him as a producer. And then they proceed to make three shitty movies.

• 1:01:08David Sims?

  Wild Wild West, Big Trouble and I guess.

• 1:01:12Griffin Newman?

  That David, listen, so the, the wheels are already kind of coming off the wagon at this point. Also do the, the pilot of the War Burton Tick Show together. The thing that Barry told me that is not on the record anywhere, but he said, I'm allowed to share here.

• 1:01:25David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 1:01:26Griffin Newman?

  Was that the Sonnenfeld.

• 1:01:28David Sims?

  Oh, go ahead.

• 1:01:29Griffin Newman?

  Cohen's scripted Ladykillers.

• 1:01:32Griffin Newman?

  Was meant to be a vehicle for Nicolas Cage. I think I might have said this in the Raising Arizona episode.

• 1:01:37David Sims?

  You could see, you could see that. That makes sense.

• 1:01:39Griffin Newman?

  He drops out of it. I want to say maybe to do adaptation.

• 1:01:44David Sims?

  I mean, it's sort of the Nicolas Cage era of like him doing like Family Man and Weatherman, like these sort of like comedy. I can see that he would seek this out.

• 1:01:53Griffin Newman?

  But Nicolas Cage is a star who even though he had become a little broader.

• 1:01:57David Sims?

  Matt Stickman, realizing he did a lot of movies about men.

• 1:02:00Griffin Newman?

  He loves men.

• 1:02:01David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:01Griffin Newman?

  He was kind of the original Manosphere.

• 1:02:03David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:02:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I'm sorry, the Manosphere. Um, but he makes sense as a guy who had become such a big star and yet being weird was part of his brand. And if he had shown up with weird teeth and weird facial hair doing a voice in this movie, people wouldn't have been like, absolutely not my Nick Cage, right? Cage drops out for some other project. I think it was adaptation. And when that happens, Sonnenfeld's like, I really just wanted to do it with Cage. If he's not doing it, I'm not interested. And that's when the Coens get the call up.

• 1:02:33David Sims?

  The way the Coens described, uh, adapting the film, they say, it was fun to desecrate it essentially. This is Joel. Frankly, the idea of despoiling a work of art kind of appealed to us. Um, so they're sort of having fun mucking around.

• 1:02:48Griffin Newman?

  Well, another key part of it is they're writing it, assuming they're not going to direct it. So they're like, who cares? To a certain degree, this is a good.

• 1:02:54David Sims?

  Probably a little bit, who cares? They have the, you know, the original, the lady is a stereotypical old lady. She's a genteel English lady, right? And they were like, we want the lady to be more of like a kind of rock of faith type, like more of a sort of tough old broad, right? And so they have this idea of the sort of Southern Baptist black woman. And, uh, this, you know, similar to intolerable cruelty, which we just discussed, starts as a writing job. So yes, maybe their passion for it is not as initially intense as some of their projects.

• 1:03:27Griffin Newman?

  Look, I think they liked the idea of doing it. It doesn't feel like a movie they would have strategically developed from the ground up to direct.

• 1:03:34David Sims?

  Once Barry drops out, they decide they want to do it.

• 1:03:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36David Sims?

  Like, it's not like they got forced into it.

• 1:03:38Griffin Newman?

  No, no, it was their choice. But this is that era. It's the two movies in a row that feel like things that were for higher jobs at bigger studios that could be seen as broader, more commercial plays that they decide to direct themselves. The third movie in this trilogy that never comes to pass is their Gambit remake, which they had similarly written on assignment. I think it's Michael Hoffman.

• 1:04:02David Sims?

  That sounds right.

• 1:04:02Griffin Newman?

  Made it with Cameron Diaz and Colin Firth and Alan Rickman is an ultimate movie that doesn't exist, but is a movie that kind of.

• 1:04:08David Sims?

  It did make a name for itself, yeah. Just to complete the, both the New Orleans and the Gambit.

• 1:04:14Griffin Newman?

  Well done. 100 flaming card points.

• 1:04:17David Sims?

  They, they claim, and perhaps they're correct, that this is the first IBS movie. They're kind of proud of how lowbrow the humor is.

• 1:04:25Griffin Newman?

  I, here's, here's my big take.

• 1:04:27David Sims?

  At a certain point, they're like, we're doing like loser Ocean's Eleven. We're doing like an Ocean's Eleven where everyone's an idiot.

• 1:04:33Griffin Newman?

  This movie feels to me, it finally hit me last night. This feels like if the Coen brothers had directed a Happy Madison movie in this era. And I think to a lot of people, that sounds like an absolute nightmare. And it's a cross section of two things I like, that even if I'm like, this is not the best use of anyone's time, I'm kind of happy it exists. But absolutely, like the amount of shit jokes in this, combined with everything else.

• 1:04:55Speaker 03

  Well, especially the fact that the, the IBS runner in the, in the movie.

• 1:05:01Griffin Newman?

  And it does run.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  It does it ever.

• 1:05:04David Sims?

  J K Simmons' character, to be clear, is the.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  It all, it all just builds to a very quick sort of bait and switch gag, which is you think he's having a bowel movement, but he's being killed. It doesn't actually really impact the heist, which is sort of your expectation is that.

• 1:05:21David Sims?

  The heist in general is not that important in this movie.

• 1:05:25Griffin Newman?

  It's funny actually, though, you're right, though, because it's like, they keep setting it up as like, and here's another ticking bomb.

• 1:05:30David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:05:31Griffin Newman?

  That's a complication and it like goes off twice, but neither time in a way that actually causes problems. He both has to shit when they're on the riverboat and he needs to shit when he's in the tunnel.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  But like, whenever, whenever he needs to use the bathroom, when they're actually in the casino, you feel like, oh, they're gonna get caught. Nothing goes wrong with it. There, there's a lot of, um. The sort of the way that like Lebowski keeps defying your expectation of how one of these things is supposed to go, like how the way things go wrong will frequently be like, well, that's not the way I expected it would go wrong. And there's a lot of things like that in this.

• 1:06:09Griffin Newman?

  They set you up to know how things will go wrong and then they kind of don't happen.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I think that, I mean, that's one of the reasons why I think a lot of people initially were not satisfied by the big Lebowski because they're actively sort of defying the thing that we know will satisfy an audience, which is you set something up and then you pay it off. And I think they're enjoying that. And I think they also do that in like the man who wasn't there. There's a lot of like the Coen brothers like doing that thing, which is like, you think we're gonna do this, but that, because they know how to set up a joke. And I think there's a part of them that likes like, we're gonna set up the joke and then tell you a different punchline at a different time than you're expecting and you'll never get the thing that you were expecting.

• 1:06:50Griffin Newman?

  Now that having been said, when they do that in a drama, I generally, I think people receive it as, oh, it's kind of a profound statement on the unknowability of life, right? And the lack of control these characters have. When they do it in a comedy, there is often this response of, so they're just fucking with me. None of this matters. You know, I feel like there's this kind of knee jerk that Lebowski got of just like, oh, so they're just like fucking around. This whole movie is a lark. That I think then gets filed under people's like, are these guys arrogant?

• 1:07:23David Sims?

  The Coens, while they finish their script and decide to take over the director's chairs, realize Tom Hanks is their first choice. They approach him. Tom Hanks.

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  It should have been Foghorn Leghorn.

• 1:07:33David Sims?

  Yeah, they, they, he, turns out he's just a cartoon.

• 1:07:35Griffin Newman?

  Foghorn did test though. And that's when they realized he was just a cartoon.

• 1:07:39Speaker 03

  Also, I believe this was, this was after Back in Action?

• 1:07:42Griffin Newman?

  It was. So his box office.

• 1:07:44Speaker 03

  Like, he was poisoned. At this point, Foghorn Leghorn in the, in the early 2000s, Hollywood was like, we are not in the Foghorn Leghorn business anymore.

• 1:07:52Griffin Newman?

  People forget how much the failure of Looney Tunes Back in Action, the box office, got pinned on Foghorn, which I don't think is fair because he's not even in it that

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  I say, I say that's not fair to Foghorn.

• 1:08:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I say, I say, I say.

• 1:08:04David Sims?

  Um, so, uh, Hanks obviously is not that drawn to remake The Ladykillers, but loves the Coens, had never met them, likes their movies. Um, really likes, uh, Raising Arizona, Blood Simple, Fargo.

• 1:08:18Griffin Newman?

  To go weird.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  And has every reason at this point to trust that this will be a fantastic film.

• 1:08:25David Sims?

  They have a great track record. He's never seen The Ladykillers. He says he's probably seen Kind Hearts and Accornus, but that's it. So he doesn't have like a big grounding for the Ealing comedies outside of Reputation. He doesn't watch it. He doesn't want like Alec Guinness entering his brain.

• 1:08:39Griffin Newman?

  They do style him fairly similarly. I mean, they come up with an Americanized Colonel Sanders fied version of it, but the paleness and the red around the eyes and the teeth. Clearly the Coens are latching on to some element of this character looking sickly and like a zombie is part of.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  I also think though, I think it was a good impulse. Sometimes I think like the danger is that you'll accidentally do something that's, that's stealing without meaning to, because you'll just have parallel thinking. I do think if it would be, if you were just watch a bunch of scenes, just scenes of the character and put them in a, in a mix with a bunch of other scenes, I don't think you'd be like, oh, those are the, those two are the same character in two different movies.

• 1:09:19Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:09:20David Sims?

  Uh, he invented a whole backstory for him of like, he's on sabbatical from some university because there was a sexual harassment lawsuit and he's a boy, you know, like Hanks gets to work figuring out who door is.

• 1:09:35Griffin Newman?

  I love that none of it's explained.

• 1:09:36David Sims?

  Kind of just let him do that. And, uh, his first trip to the Cannes Film Festival is with this movie.

• 1:09:44Griffin Newman?

  And it plays at the Cannes Film Festival after, after it has come out in the United States and flop.

• 1:09:49David Sims?

  Yes, because it came out in March in the US and so.

• 1:09:52Griffin Newman?

  It was March or April. Yeah.

• 1:09:53Speaker 03

  Um, and it wins the jury prize for Irma P. Hall.

• 1:09:57David Sims?

  It's a very, it's a special award for Irma P. Hall outside of the two acting awards that they, it's the Tarantino Jury.

• 1:10:05Griffin Newman?

  The Cannes Film Festival, Ben, usually just gives out two acting awards, gendered, right? And it's just, it's two performances, male and female. They gave a special award created just for this extreme circumstance. Handed out by Quentin Tarantino to Irma P. Hall in this movie, six weeks after it flopped.

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  It's another Cannes triumph for the Coen brothers.

• 1:10:29Griffin Newman?

  Is Samuel Jackson in Jungle Fever the only other time that happened?

• 1:10:33David Sims?

  I don't know. It's a time that it happened. I don't know. I don't know everything. Um, but what he, his memory is that he had a great time at Cannes with The Lady Killer. Big standing ovation. Everyone enjoyed it. Makes sense. This is the kind of movie French people like, yeah, this is what America's like, right? Um, and then he's like, and then the next year he went with The Da Vinci Code and obviously we had a giant reception and like, you know, red carpet and all that. But by the time the movie was over, he was like, the theater was half empty. You know what I mean? And he's like, obviously that movie made a billion dollars or whatever, but like, I had a better time.

• 1:11:04Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:11:04David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd.

• 1:11:22David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:11:23Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:11:46David Sims?

  Of course. You got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film. Everyone knows a Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:11:57Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:12:06David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:12:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:12:09David Sims?

  You know, the, you see, you know, whatever. You see it in a documentary for two seconds, but this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:12:16Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, The Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:12:30David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:12:32Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course. Yes. But that's more of a hobby.

• 1:12:35David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot podcast is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:12:51Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:13:07Speaker 05

  This December, the magic of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol returns to Virginia Repertory Theater in downtown Richmond. Experience the transformation of Ebenezer Scrooge as he's visited by the ghosts of Christmas past, present, and future, and rediscovers the joy and true meaning of the holiday season. Performances run November 18th through December 27th. Tickets on sale now at virginia rep.org or by calling 804-282-2620.

• 1:13:40David Sims?

  Marlon Wayans begged to be in this movie, he said, you know, he said, "I begged and pleaded and hit the casting couch and I did both of them." JJ notes, "Jesus."

• 1:13:52Speaker 04

  He hit the casting couch.

• 1:13:53Griffin Newman?

  That's Marlon's quote that I'm sure is meant to be a joke, and thank God JJ editorialized to let us know that he does not approve of that joke.

• 1:14:01David Sims?

  You know, he basically, you know, Marlon's like, "I watched all their movies. I found, you know, I sort of get the kind of like cartoonish Bugs Bunny energy."

• 1:14:09Speaker 04

  I jerked off Ethan, then Joel.

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  See, this is why I do think that there is-

• 1:14:13Griffin Newman?

  Did a kind of 1906.

• 1:14:14Speaker 03

  When I hear that, because that is a, that is a Marlon original joke.

• 1:14:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:18Speaker 03

  I detect some of that voice in his character in this movie.

• 1:14:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, Marlon is so interesting. I think he is such a powerful performer, and there is the swing between his own projects, which are not always exactly my cup of tea, but I can't deny he is like very engaging on screen. And then anytime he like hands himself over to a director and is like, "I want to do your thing," I think he's kind of incredible.

• 1:14:43David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:14:43Griffin Newman?

  Like, he's great in Requiem.

• 1:14:45David Sims?

  He's good in Requiem. I don't like that movie at all.

• 1:14:47Griffin Newman?

  I don't either, but I think he's great in it.

• 1:14:48Speaker 03

  Wait, Requiem for a Dream?

• 1:14:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  Be excited, be, be excited.

• 1:14:53David Sims?

  Everyone in that movie is just dialed to 5,000. He's horrendous.

• 1:14:58Speaker 03

  Ends so badly for some of those characters.

• 1:15:00Griffin Newman?

  But I'm not counting that as a real director.

• 1:15:03Speaker 03

  Some of the characters in that movie, it ends badly for them.

• 1:15:06David Sims?

  Yeah, they don't.

• 1:15:06Speaker 03

  That's what I, that's my take on that movie. I feel like a lot of those characters meet a bad end.

• 1:15:11Griffin Newman?

  I loved him in Air.

• 1:15:13David Sims?

  I think he's great in Air.

• 1:15:15Griffin Newman?

  I liked him a lot in On the Rocks.

• 1:15:17David Sims?

  Yeah, I thought he worked in that. On the Rocks was mostly, my takeaway was like, God, he's still hot as fuck.

• 1:15:22Griffin Newman?

  This is the other thing. Marlon Wayans is so handsome.

• 1:15:25David Sims?

  He's a really good.

• 1:15:26Griffin Newman?

  And he's aging impeccably.

• 1:15:27David Sims?

  And it's not like Sean isn't handsome. Sean's also.

• 1:15:30Griffin Newman?

  No, but Marlon's neatly has. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:34David Sims?

  But obviously he doesn't do a lot of what we're talking about. He largely is in other stuff. I think he's really funny in Orbit.

• 1:15:41Griffin Newman?

  He is really funny in Orbit. I also think he's good in G.I. Joe.

• 1:15:44Speaker 03

  Is he?

• 1:15:45Griffin Newman?

  I think he's kind of good.

• 1:15:46David Sims?

  Is he? Are you just saying that because that's the other one?

• 1:15:49Griffin Newman?

  I think he's kind of good in G.I.

• 1:15:51David Sims?

  I don't remember him being much of anything in that movie.

• 1:15:53Griffin Newman?

  Wallace whipcord weens?

• 1:15:55David Sims?

  That's who he is.

• 1:15:55Griffin Newman?

  Ripcord weens.

• 1:15:56David Sims?

  Nobody in that, everyone feels, I enjoyed that movie. Okay, everyone feels a little lost in it. It's a lot of garbage.

• 1:16:02Griffin Newman?

  So silly.

• 1:16:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:04Griffin Newman?

  It's one of the silliest movies ever made.

• 1:16:06Speaker 04

  I've never seen any of them.

• 1:16:07Griffin Newman?

  Silly.

• 1:16:08David Sims?

  There's just two.

• 1:16:09Griffin Newman?

  No, there's.

• 1:16:09David Sims?

  Oh, no, there's three.

• 1:16:10Griffin Newman?

  You're forgetting. We've got the origin of Snake Eyes.

• 1:16:13David Sims?

  Um, I don't think I, I think I tried to watch that one and couldn't even finish it.

• 1:16:17Griffin Newman?

  Here's the thing about it. It's not very engaging.

• 1:16:20David Sims?

  No.

• 1:16:21Griffin Newman?

  It is a classic, like Patton Oswalt joke. You know that guy Snake Eyes? Oh yeah, with the mask and he doesn't talk. He's so awesome. Here's a movie about who he was before he got the mask, when he used to talk a lot.

• 1:16:30David Sims?

  Bad happened to him involving dice. Uh, Wayans decides his character is the audience's point of view. I guess I can kind of see that. I don't really know.

• 1:16:38Griffin Newman?

  Only in the sense that he's the only person who feels. Yeah, and he's in a modern world.

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  I also think that, I also think that's a helpful thing for an actor to have.

• 1:16:48David Sims?

  Speaking to a point we made, this is a quote from Joel Cohen. Marlon was funny as hell and he improvised a lot of that stuff.

• 1:16:55Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well.

• 1:16:55David Sims?

  We were telling Marlon.

• 1:16:56Speaker 03

  Well, well, I say, I say it does seem that Marlon improvised a few of the lines in the movie.

• 1:17:01Griffin Newman?

  And we shall.

• 1:17:02David Sims?

  Get waffles. Maybe I just.

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  Of course, I couldn't be in the movie because I was box office poison at the time.

• 1:17:06David Sims?

  We were telling Marlon. I was blacklisted, I say. Really be given a writing credit because of what he does in some of those scenes. He was great. Irma P. Hall, kind of one of those like, you know, actors with a million credits.

• 1:17:20Griffin Newman?

  But much like, uh, what was the name of the woman in the original Lady Killers? She, she only started acting in her 50s.

• 1:17:26David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:17:27Griffin Newman?

  And then.

• 1:17:27David Sims?

  The original.

• 1:17:28Griffin Newman?

  That was her first major role. She wins the BAFTA for Best British Actress and dies two years later.

• 1:17:34David Sims?

  Kate Johnson.

• 1:17:35Griffin Newman?

  Her only above the title role. Irma P. Hall, similarly, I think, doesn't have her first screen credit until her 50s.

• 1:17:41David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, she's got like a couple of things like back in the day, but really, I think properly starts acting in the late 80s. Uh, she's very good in the film A Family Thing.

• 1:17:52Speaker 03

  I didn't.

• 1:17:52David Sims?

  Which she got like some critics notices.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  I didn't realize at the time that that was the same actor who's in, when the Lady Killers came out. Her performance is so different.

• 1:18:02David Sims?

  She's a, I think, generally.

• 1:18:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:04David Sims?

  But anytime you see her in a movie.

• 1:18:06Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:18:06David Sims?

  You're like, right, this is like a very, very good character.

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  And just the briefest of moments to lament the loss of Billy Bob Thornton as a screenwriter because, uh, there was that era where he was writing a bunch of movies and I felt like The Family Thing was my favorite thing he wrote.

• 1:18:17David Sims?

  He also wrote movies that were about like real life in the South and it was like, oh yeah, this guy has like some grounding on that. Now he's like.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  Can I just? Now he puts it all into his songs.

• 1:18:26Griffin Newman?

  Could I just give a really quick Irma rundown? Cause I think it's interesting. She was a high school teacher. She taught languages, right? Then she got, uh, side work during the summer as an interim publicist on an independent film that was filming, uh, in Dallas where she lived.

• 1:18:44David Sims?

  It's called Book of Numbers.

• 1:18:45Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:18:45David Sims?

  Sort of like, uh, early 70s crime movie.

• 1:18:48Griffin Newman?

  The director saw her do a poetry reading and was like, let me give you a little role in this. She kind of gets the bug, but then she basically is like, I like acting. Let me start a local theater company. So she builds a very successful and I think still existing to this day, theater company and then does little roles on the side. She doesn't full-time act.

• 1:19:07David Sims?

  She's 90 years old, she's still alive.

• 1:19:09Griffin Newman?

  She doesn't full-time act until 1984.

• 1:19:11David Sims?

  Yeah, the, and then.

• 1:19:13Griffin Newman?

  At which point she's, she's like 50 years old.

• 1:19:16David Sims?

  Apart from a family thing, which I do feel like was her first sort of quote unquote breakout.

• 1:19:21Griffin Newman?

  Soul Food.

• 1:19:22David Sims?

  She's in Soul Food, which is a very fun movie. Uh, she's in, uh, she's apparently the grandma in Steel.

• 1:19:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:27David Sims?

  We're gonna watch Steel one day.

• 1:19:29Griffin Newman?

  We are the Friends of Superman Patreon series.

• 1:19:31David Sims?

  Right. Uh, I remember her in the, in the Clint Eastwood Midnight and Garden of Good and Evil, which is not one of Clint's best, but it's okay. She's in Beloved.

• 1:19:37Griffin Newman?

  Which we covered. I don't remember.

• 1:19:39David Sims?

  No, I think it's a pretty small.

• 1:19:40Griffin Newman?

  Patch Adams.

• 1:19:41David Sims?

  Um, she's in Patch Adams, which I have seen.

• 1:19:44Griffin Newman?

  Your favorite movie Bad Company.

• 1:19:47David Sims?

  That's a tough one. What's she in that one? Uh, she's pretty far down the cast.

• 1:19:51Griffin Newman?

  She is Jamie Foxx's mom in collateral the same year as this? Am I correct about that?

• 1:19:54David Sims?

  An incredible performance. It's the same year. It's the sort of the fall, you know, when this is coming out in the spring. That's a great scene because that's the scene where she's Vincent's so nice to her in the hospital bed. And she's going like, oh, my son, this and that, you know, he has his own limo company and Vincent's realizing like what a loser Jamie Foxx is.

• 1:20:11Griffin Newman?

  All the autographed photos on her hospital room.

• 1:20:14David Sims?

  And like the whole dynamics of the movie start to shift, but like Cruz and her are so locked. They're so good in that scene. Uh, she's great. And like, since then, I feel like she's done a bunch of stuff.

• 1:20:24Griffin Newman?

  She's basically been retired for 10 years, but at 80, she steps away. She did the Werner Herzog doubleheader.

• 1:20:30David Sims?

  Yeah. My son, my son and Bad Lieutenant.

• 1:20:33Griffin Newman?

  Quite good Bad Lieutenant. Yeah.

• 1:20:35David Sims?

  She's a great actor. She's incredibly, the Coens found her through casting. They saw her almost immediately. She was like the first person who walked through the door. They were like, she rocks, but let's see some other people. And they were like, no.

• 1:20:44Griffin Newman?

  I, I do feel like she's the undeniable juice of this movie. Uh, you know, I, I was talking to Barry about it and he was like, by the time the Coens took over, you know, they handled their own shit. So we were not very involved. Uh, but he was just like, she, she's just undeniably, we would watch the dailies and be like, this is a home run because of her.

• 1:21:05David Sims?

  Um, her quote, it was a wonderful experience working with Tom Hanks. We bonded. I bond easily. I guess I say that I have all these godchildren. God sends them to me and he's become one as well as the Coen brothers. Film was shot in Mississippi, carried a budget of about 35, 40 million dollars. Uh, they built a lot of sets. Uh, everyone had a good time. The Coens had final cut and they turned this movie in. That was what was released.

• 1:21:32Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely feels like a final cut movie. It does not feel like it has odd rhythms.

• 1:21:36David Sims?

  Yep.

• 1:21:37Griffin Newman?

  You know, it is not playing the conventional studio comedy game.

• 1:21:40David Sims?

  Uh, and Joel Coen has this idea of like, let's try to combine gospel music and hip hop music for the score and for the soundtrack.

• 1:21:51Griffin Newman?

  I think the soundtrack is incredible. Uh, I listen.

• 1:21:53David Sims?

  The Burwell score is very interesting. I will say, yeah.

• 1:21:57Griffin Newman?

  And the, there are the multiple uses of, uh, what is it? Trouble of this world?

• 1:22:01David Sims?

  Uh, yeah. The hymn is called, or yeah, sort of, yeah. Trouble of this world.

• 1:22:05Speaker 04

  You listen to this often?

• 1:22:07Griffin Newman?

  Ben, I swear to you, I bought the CD at the time. It would be a CD. I would carry up. Absolutely. It's a good ass soundtrack. Version mega store, full price.

• 1:22:18Speaker 04

  Such a weird.

• 1:22:19Griffin Newman?

  I like this movie. God, it's a B minus.

• 1:22:22Speaker 03

  I, I will not, I will not stand here and let Griffin be bullied for this. I do not think it is weird.

• 1:22:29David Sims?

  He bought the CD.

• 1:22:30Speaker 03

  I do not think it is weird. Griffin, Griffin, look at me, look at me, look at me. You are normal.

• 1:22:34Griffin Newman?

  Thank you.

• 1:22:35Speaker 03

  You are a normal, normal person.

• 1:22:37Griffin Newman?

  And my big and cool.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  You're big and cool and normal.

• 1:22:39Griffin Newman?

  And big and cool and tough and normal.

• 1:22:41Speaker 03

  Thank you. All right.

• 1:22:43Griffin Newman?

  It's a good CD. If they were released on vinyl, I'd buy that shit again. Record store day, limited color, right? I'd buy the shit out of that.

• 1:22:49Speaker 03

  You'd be lining up. You'd be lining up at Rough Trade.

• 1:22:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:52Speaker 03

  In Manhattan.

• 1:22:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. No, realistically, what I'd be do is I'd be texting Connor and saying, hey, are you lining up at Rough Trade?

• 1:22:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, that does sound like a Griffin.

• 1:22:59Griffin Newman?

  I do usually text you the morning of record store day and go, are you lining up?

• 1:23:03Speaker 03

  I just wanna, cuz I don't think there's anything in the dossier.

• 1:23:08Speaker 03

  I do, there's a song I like by the band Lush, the UK band Lush, they had an album and a song called Ladykillers.

• 1:23:13Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  And I really like that a lot.

• 1:23:14David Sims?

  Inspired by the movie or is it just?

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  No, not at all.

• 1:23:16Griffin Newman?

  You're just bringing it up cuz it has.

• 1:23:17David Sims?

  Is it them confessing to a horrible crime?

• 1:23:19Speaker 03

  No, I'm on my, I'm on my, it's a point of view song, it's a character song, ala Randy Newman. Uh, sort of, no, I don't think it is, actually, it's a stretch now that I remember the lyrics. Um, but it is dealing with a type of a problematic man.

• 1:23:33Griffin Newman?

  But I think you're right that it was part of the calculation for this movie, especially them working at Touchdown again, so we're getting T-Bone Burnett back and we're gonna do an unconventional soundtrack.

• 1:23:41Speaker 03

  T-Bone first consulted on Big Basky.

• 1:23:44Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, right, yes, yeah.

• 1:23:45Speaker 03

  He like put that, cuz that's why that has a really cool soundtrack. And then Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? was, the soundtrack's more successful than the movie. And Ladykillers feels very much like we're going back to that, like.

• 1:23:56Griffin Newman?

  Surprise bestselling album, and in fact, it sold one copy to Griffin Newman Full Price Virgin Megastore.

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  I, I am in the Discogs app now, I know cuz I'm, I'm almost positive, no, no shade to JJ, but I'm almost positive he did not go deep on the soundtrack, uh, release formats, uh, in the dossier, am I wrong? Am I wrong?

• 1:24:13Griffin Newman?

  Is there a vinyl?

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  There are, no, there are five CD editions, um, Europe, Mexico, Canada, the US. And then another one that seems like it almost might be unauthorized, no, it was a reissue.

• 1:24:24Griffin Newman?

  It was a reissue.

• 1:24:25Speaker 03

  Uh, but unknown year when it was reissued.

• 1:24:28Griffin Newman?

  I didn't buy the reissue, I got the original.

• 1:24:30Speaker 03

  And it is, hold on, I wanna see how available it is. There are 76 versions of it, uh, copies of it available on Discogs. I'm, I'm gonna get it.

• 1:24:42David Sims?

  So, the film is, uh, a contemporary story somehow.

• 1:24:50Griffin Newman?

  With your full chest.

• 1:24:51David Sims?

  Uh, about, um, a lady and widow named Marva Munson. She's got a big picture of her, uh, her lost, her, her former husband.

• 1:25:02Griffin Newman?

  It's a big Sturgis move, all the other.

• 1:25:04David Sims?

  The, the, the portrait changes, which does.

• 1:25:07Griffin Newman?

  Ninoche does that with, uh, with Lennon, I wanna say.

• 1:25:10David Sims?

  But I think there's, there's at least one.

• 1:25:12Griffin Newman?

  Sullivan travels, there are a couple Sturgis that could get.

• 1:25:14Speaker 03

  By this point, you know, it was done on, uh, the Beverly Hillbillies, the TV series, uh, where Mr. Drysdale had a portrait of his dad and it would always.

• 1:25:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  Change its reaction.

• 1:25:23Griffin Newman?

  I, I wanna say it is a bit that I always like. Port, portrait responding with faces.

• 1:25:30David Sims?

  Uh, yes. Um, so she's got a house and she, um, rents it to, uh, having, after having complained about her former tenant playing hippity hop music to the great George Wallace, uh, rents it to a classics professor named Goldthwait Higginson Door.

• 1:25:47Griffin Newman?

  She discovers him on her front lawn, chasing a cat up a tree. I, I love it as an immediate save the cats version of we're seeing the worst character in the world ostensibly saving a cat as an introduction. Like it feels like they're rebuke to the sort of idea of schematic screenwriting.

• 1:26:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:26:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, but it does immediately endear him to her. And then he sweet talks her. He is the most flowery speaking man in history.

• 1:26:16David Sims?

  Uh, yes, he is a mellifluous, you know, he's 10 words when one could do.

• 1:26:21Griffin Newman?

  He looks like Colonel Sanders with sepsis.

• 1:26:24David Sims?

  Uh, and he ostensibly wants her cellar, her root cellar to rehearse music in with an ensemble of weirdos.

• 1:26:34Griffin Newman?

  Church music of the Orko Coco era.

• 1:26:36David Sims?

  And she, and he says, we're like 400 times.

• 1:26:39Griffin Newman?

  And every time I find it funny, B minus.

• 1:26:41David Sims?

  For sure. Uh, and, uh, she, um, is mostly concerned with God and, uh, what's it called? Uh, the university.

• 1:26:48Speaker 03

  Bob Jones.

• 1:26:49David Sims?

  Bob Jones University, a real university, of course, which is like a very Christian university.

• 1:26:52Griffin Newman?

  She sends them $5 a month?

• 1:26:54David Sims?

  Right. She's, uh, on their.

• 1:26:55Speaker 03

  And, and.

• 1:26:56David Sims?

  Their plaque.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  And I think one of the more subversive jokes in the movie is the fact that you have this character that you are rooting for, who is a well-intentioned person and that the, her monthly donation, like ultimately any windfall that she gets at the end of this movie is going to go to this institution that has a history of racial segregation discrimination.

• 1:27:19David Sims?

  Not a great university.

• 1:27:20Speaker 03

  But that's the joke. Like.

• 1:27:21Griffin Newman?

  That's the joke.

• 1:27:22David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  Which I actually think in 2025 is a joke that plays really interestingly because there's so much of the kind of like, I didn't vote for this. There's so much of the sort of like people who like your, uh, we've had a decade now of trying to like parse the intentions of voters. And like, are there good people? Who vote for bad people and then bad things happen and they didn't mean that. The fact that you have a hero of the movie that at the end is going to be like, oh, good. I can donate them to this.

• 1:27:49Griffin Newman?

  That's the win.

• 1:27:50Speaker 03

  Poisonous, uh, like it's a very, that's, it's as dark an ending as, uh, the Coen brothers have had in terms of like, uh, what looks like a sunny win for a good character is like, oh yeah, but the money is going to go to this group that as of 2004, I know that, I don't know that, I know that there have been like some shifts. I don't know how meaningful, but at the time.

• 1:28:10David Sims?

  Yes. I don't want to get sued by Bob Jones University or whatever.

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  Oh, you don't want to get sued by them?

• 1:28:14David Sims?

  I don't know. They feel like.

• 1:28:15Speaker 03

  All right. Well then bleep me, bleep me, bleep me.

• 1:28:18Griffin Newman?

  I just want to.

• 1:28:19Speaker 03

  Edit out what I said. If, if what I said was too hot.

• 1:28:21David Sims?

  I get your gag of, of like, um.

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  They have controversies.

• 1:28:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, I just want to call out the original Ladykillers has the same exact kind of narrative bookend of opening with her going to the cops, saying something that they kind of dismiss as a little crazy. And ending with her going in and confessing and offering to give them the money and then being like, this woman's making stuff up. Why don't you keep it? Right? It's got the same thing. The Coens add the idea of specifying where the money would go in such a specific way that seeded from the very beginning of the movie, which I do think is smart. Like at the end of the original, she's just sort of like, oh, I guess I'll.

• 1:29:05Speaker 03

  Well, we see her give money to like a panhandler.

• 1:29:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  And the implication is like, the money is going to go to.

• 1:29:12Griffin Newman?

  She'll be very generous.

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  She'll be generous and kind because she's a nice lady.

• 1:29:15Griffin Newman?

  But you have this idea of this woman who doesn't have much already giving whatever she can to Bob Jones every month. It's the other thing I like is like, the character is funny in the original Ladykillers, but the bit there is more, this woman is incredibly oblivious. It's all going on under her nose. I like that R. P. Hall's character has.

• 1:29:33David Sims?

  She's active.

• 1:29:34Griffin Newman?

  I like that she's active.

• 1:29:35David Sims?

  It's a great performance, uh, in my opinion, and it's kind of like, to me, sort of the reason to recommend the movie. If, if, if, you know, if, but my big problem with this movie is that it feels kind of lifeless and low energy, which makes no sense to me, given the tone. And like how heightened the performances are and how silly everyone is, I find it kind of dreary to watch. I want it to be like really goofy, really Looney Tunes. And instead, it's not like, and at the end, it kind of picks up the pace a little bit. Stuff's finally happening. People are dying. But a lot of it is just them sitting around.

• 1:30:10Speaker 03

  One thing I had forgotten is that the, in my memory of, I've seen the movie twice. Once when it came out and then once recently for this. And

• 1:30:20David Sims?

  It's not a, we watch it all the time.

• 1:30:21Griffin Newman?

  I think I've seen it four times.

• 1:30:22Speaker 03

  My, my memory of it was that

• 1:30:24David Sims?

  A fair amount.

• 1:30:24Speaker 03

  The runner of throwing the bodies over onto the barge.

• 1:30:28David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28Speaker 03

  Happened over a longer

• 1:30:30David Sims?

  And instead, it's kind of the last 20 minutes.

• 1:30:32Speaker 03

  It's all bundled at the end.

• 1:30:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34Speaker 03

  It's like, that doesn't

• 1:30:35David Sims?

  They have the barge before then, I guess, is sort of

• 1:30:37Speaker 03

  You see the barge, but I'm like, the movie was almost over and they had yet to dump a body. And I'm like, oh, I remember it being spread out a little

• 1:30:44Griffin Newman?

  But that is structurally exactly how the Ealing one works as well.

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  I think this movie, I like this movie. I think it's the worst Coen Brothers movie.

• 1:30:55Griffin Newman?

  Inarguably.

• 1:30:56David Sims?

  I think inarguably.

• 1:30:57Griffin Newman?

  Inarguably.

• 1:30:57David Sims?

  I think there's probably some people out there who pick intolerable cruelty.

• 1:31:02Griffin Newman?

  And to all of those people, I go re-watch it. You're wrong about that.

• 1:31:05David Sims?

  I think, I think Buster Scruggs kind of has a muddled reputation, but I really like that movie.

• 1:31:10Griffin Newman?

  That's partially Netflix and partially just omnibus stuff.

• 1:31:13Speaker 03

  Intolerable cruelty, the last solo film that

• 1:31:17David Sims?

  Joel Coen's wants, like, whoa.

• 1:31:20Speaker 03

  That, yeah.

• 1:31:21David Sims?

  No, it's Joel.

• 1:31:22Speaker 03

  Joel, until Macbeth.

• 1:31:23David Sims?

  Right. It was funny that in the interviews, he was like, yes, since intolerable, I've been looking for a project that really found me.

• 1:31:30Griffin Newman?

  That's funny that Joel didn't direct a movie for like 20 years.

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  Back, yeah. But I do feel like it's their, it's their worst movie. But I also feel like, I had this thought about it, that if this movie hadn't been released, let's say that they, the Disney looked at and said, we're gonna, we're gonna Zazz love this. We're gonna take the tax right off. We're never gonna, no one's ever gonna see this. Imagine we had spent the last 20 years, just please release The Ladykillers. Why? They made a movie with, the Coen Brothers made a movie with Tom Hanks. It's a remake of this classic movie and, and it's just hasn't been released. I think if we saw it now, we'd be so excited by all the things that work in it. Be like, why didn't they release this at the time? It's not perfect, but it's, you know, I think there's, there's a

• 1:32:13David Sims?

  Some things people might bump up against.

• 1:32:15Speaker 03

  Sure, sure.

• 1:32:15Griffin Newman?

  There are bumps. I'm not denying the bumps in this movie.

• 1:32:19Speaker 03

  But I do think that in the same way, I think a lot of the things that don't work in this movie are built into things that also kind of don't work in the original.

• 1:32:29Griffin Newman?

  I'm a little inclined to agree with you. I've always been, said with no disrespect, a little perplexed by Lady Killer seeming status as like one of the 10 greatest British comedies of all time.

• 1:32:40David Sims?

  I would not, I put it above other Ealing comedies. To me, it's a sort of like middle, uh, Ealing comedy.

• 1:32:46Griffin Newman?

  I just feel like I often see it cited as like perhaps the pinnacle of the Ealing era.

• 1:32:52Speaker 03

  To me, there's something about the way the story is structured that makes it feel like this trifle, this minor sort of little story. It's not, it's not told with satisfying beats. I think there are things the Coen brothers actually improve in the sense that I think the original heist doesn't feel as interesting to me as the heist in this.

• 1:33:12Griffin Newman?

  Agree. The original heist is really uninteresting.

• 1:33:15Speaker 03

  And it, and it, and it kind of, in this movie, they need her house because it's crucial to the heist.

• 1:33:21Griffin Newman?

  It's another thing I like.

• 1:33:23Speaker 03

  In the original, it's sort of a, just a happenstance thing, you know?

• 1:33:26David Sims?

  I mean, they're like near.

• 1:33:28Speaker 03

  They're near, but they could have, they could have, it's just bad luck that they ended up in this lady's

• 1:33:32Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:33:32Speaker 03

  house. They could have done it in any number of places. And I think there are certain things that feel a little bit more interesting to me. When I was watching the original Lady Killers, every, everything that was a little different about the heist, in most cases, not every case, but in most cases, I felt like the Coen brothers had made it a little bit more interesting on the heist level.

• 1:33:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And then the original film, it's sort of just what a weird house you have. They're sort of transients who seemingly are going to only rent the room for like two days a night. The, the original film takes place over only a couple of days.

• 1:34:07David Sims?

  The original is really concerned with Guinness, you know, playing this character.

• 1:34:11Griffin Newman?

  They move in, like, you know.

• 1:34:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:34:13David Sims?

  Yeah, they do the string quartet stuff.

• 1:34:15Griffin Newman?

  An armored truck.

• 1:34:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:34:17Griffin Newman?

  And then they try to get out and they're immediately kind of like hot and busted. This film does the sort of Ocean's Eleven parody of they need to be here for the perfect plan, which we'll talk about.

• 1:34:28David Sims?

  Bring in their team. Everyone has a role to play.

• 1:34:30Griffin Newman?

  But they're gonna be here for weeks, if not months, planning this.

• 1:34:33David Sims?

  So like Marlon Braine Wanes, the inside man, J K Simmons is demolition, Zima is the tunneler, because he's from the, he was in the Viet Cong.

• 1:34:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:42David Sims?

  What does Ryan Hurst do? He's just like the muscle.

• 1:34:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's the muscle.

• 1:34:47David Sims?

  Uh, and of course, yeah, Mountain Girl, played by the great Diana, Diana DeLino.

• 1:34:51Griffin Newman?

  Who just passed away.

• 1:34:53David Sims?

  Oh, that's sad. She did just die.

• 1:34:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:55David Sims?

  At the age of 67 of cancer. That's so sad. I loved her on the show, uh, Popular.

• 1:35:00Griffin Newman?

  It's such a weird reference.

• 1:35:02Speaker 04

  Mountain Girl. It's like pulling from, uh, Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.

• 1:35:06Griffin Newman?

  Oh, that's.

• 1:35:07David Sims?

  Jerry Garcia's ex-wife, Mountain Girl.

• 1:35:09Griffin Newman?

  That's, I mean, that's a very Coen Brothers reference.

• 1:35:12David Sims?

  Well, it's, this movie is modern, modern. It's something I feel grateful there. Like, that's why, right, because there's the bit with Greg Grunberg, where they're on set, you know, to introduce J K Simmons' character. And you're like, we're on a movie set? Like, that doesn't feel right. Like, again, this feels like it's set in the 50s.

• 1:35:29Griffin Newman?

  It is a thing I kind of like about this movie is that the team is made up of five guys who seem like weird, out of time cartoon characters. And you have these moments where they have to interact with the outside world and you're like, oh, even within this movie, they are strange.

• 1:35:44Speaker 03

  I'll also say that you talk about people's Coen Brothers journey. We haven't gotten into that.

• 1:35:49Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Connor, tell us your Coen Brothers journey. You're a little older than us, so you have a different one.

• 1:35:53Speaker 03

  The first Coen Brothers movie I ever saw was Raising Arizona. I was taking a college credit course when I was in middle school, where in the summer I'd go and.

• 1:36:02Griffin Newman?

  You were taking college courses in middle school?

• 1:36:04Speaker 03

  I don't know why I did this exactly, but it was a thing.

• 1:36:06David Sims?

  Which college?

• 1:36:07Speaker 03

  I think it was North, Northeast Missouri State University, might be Northwest, I can't remember. But it was a thing where for a few weeks you'd go, you'd stay at a dorm and you'd take one college class. And I did this for two summers. And one of the summers, the class was creative writing.

• 1:36:19David Sims?

  Looks like it was Northwest. There is no Northeast.

• 1:36:22Speaker 03

  Oh, boy, I've been, wow, you really.

• 1:36:25David Sims?

  I've nailed you to the wall.

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  Oh, man. People warned me about coming on this show.

• 1:36:30Griffin Newman?

  It's a bit of a gotcha podcast.

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  But I have been.

• 1:36:33David Sims?

  This is like when, right, the presidential debate with the live fact checking.

• 1:36:37Speaker 03

  Oh, shit, here I am.

• 1:36:39David Sims?

  I'm gonna have to stop you there.

• 1:36:40Griffin Newman?

  Oh, David and his infamous laptop.

• 1:36:43Speaker 03

  I can't get anything past you guys. The teacher of this class showed us a series of movies. And when I think back to the movies he picked, I'm always kind of impressed that this guy had like, they were, they were interesting things to show us. He showed us Raising Arizona, he showed us Radio Days, he showed us True Stories.

• 1:37:01David Sims?

  Sure, great movies all in.

• 1:37:03Speaker 03

  And they're all kind of in that time period, like, just to get like a young mind thinking about how you can tell certain.

• 1:37:09Griffin Newman?

  And like unconventional comedies, like there are different ways to be funny.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, and Raising Arizona was by far the one that I was just like, this movie is so funny. And like, I've seen that, there's a clip of Tarantino talking about Raising Arizona and talking about how it was filmed. And the feeling at the time being that like, all movies will be filmed like this from now on because there's like, someone figured a new way to film like Funny Chasing.

• 1:37:34Griffin Newman?

  But it's, it's what everyone who tries to do it learns is this is so fucking difficult.

• 1:37:38David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:37:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:39David Sims?

  That's a movie that has a lot of energy. I would say a comedy by the Coen Brothers is sort of madcap about a bunch of dirtbags that has a lot of energy to it.

• 1:37:46Speaker 03

  Yes, a camera is electric. It's just, but I always think about the Coen Brothers, their movies as their first two movies laid this template down. And I think of the spectrum, Blood Simple is at one end and Raising Arizona is the other. Cause it's hard to think of a one, two punch from any filmmaker.

• 1:38:04David Sims?

  They are showing you everything they got with those first two movies.

• 1:38:07Griffin Newman?

  And we will exist between these two poles.

• 1:38:09David Sims?

  Which are wide poles.

• 1:38:11Speaker 03

  Yep, Raising Arizona feels like the people who made Blood Simple should have failed at trying to make a Raising Arizona. It feels like you can't, no one can make both.

• 1:38:18Griffin Newman?

  Or vice versa.

• 1:38:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:19Griffin Newman?

  Like Blood Simple is a failure and then they're like, you know what we should do is comedy.

• 1:38:23Speaker 03

  And every movie of theirs, I feel like is on that spectrum. And Fargo being one that lands sort of almost perfectly in the middle, that it's like a blood symbol that's also got this crazy.

• 1:38:34David Sims?

  You're absolutely right.

• 1:38:35Griffin Newman?

  It's why it's their definitive film.

• 1:38:37Speaker 03

  And, and another crazy thing is if you love Blood Simple, if you're like, this is what I want from the Coen Brothers. You have to wait until No Country For All Men before you really get another movie that fully bites at that apple, right?

• 1:38:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:53Speaker 03

  If your jam is Blood Simple, you go to Raising Arizona, you're like, that's not what I wanted.

• 1:38:56Griffin Newman?

  A man who wasn't there.

• 1:38:58Speaker 03

  A little bit.

• 1:38:58Griffin Newman?

  A little bit. Noir, you know, like.

• 1:39:00Speaker 03

  But it's still got a lot, it's still got a little bit more of the kooky Raising Arizona aspect. So even like Miller's Crossing has a little bit more of the crazy camera work, a little, there's like a,

• 1:39:10Griffin Newman?

  I hear you.

• 1:39:11Speaker 03

  No Country For All Men is the first movie that feels like it's a proper follow up to Blood Simple. Lady Killers is closer to the Raising Arizona side, but it has that sort of like darkness and crime and, and also a little bit of like, the world of Blood Simple feels like a cruel world, a mean. There's something mean. There's something really, there's a mean streak in the Lady Killers.

• 1:39:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:37Speaker 03

  That keeps it from, that I think when it works, it's great. But I think there's a lot of places where the, the mean streak. And I'll start with like, I went to that website, the very helpful, uh, does the dog die?

• 1:39:51Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 1:39:51Speaker 03

  Website for the Lady Killers, because I genuinely wasn't sure whether the dog had died in this.

• 1:39:57Griffin Newman?

  The dog or the cat?

• 1:39:58Speaker 03

  The dog at the beginning on the, on the commercial.

• 1:40:00Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 1:40:02Speaker 03

  And it says it's implied the dog in the commercial filming dies of suffocation approximately 15 minutes in.

• 1:40:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  And there's another comment saying the dog is during filming an ad, the dog is made to wear a gas mask that suffocates him, he is shown dropping into unconsciousness. Then someone tries to resuscitate him, you see his tongue hanging out. But it's like, that's a joke in the movie that feels to me like mean in a way that it doesn't,

• 1:40:27Speaker 03

  doesn't buy you much.

• 1:40:28Griffin Newman?

  There are people like, like Ben Hozni, you kill a dog within 15 minutes of the movie, you've put like a boot around your car tire.

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  It's a tough thing to ask of an audience.

• 1:40:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's just immediately putting you in a bad head.

• 1:40:40Speaker 04

  I fucking hated that part.

• 1:40:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:41Speaker 04

  Maybe Matt.

• 1:40:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:42Speaker 03

  Like if, if you're doing it, how, how do you feel about John Wick?

• 1:40:46David Sims?

  It's what the movie is about.

• 1:40:47Griffin Newman?

  That's the engine.

• 1:40:48Speaker 03

  You're okay when you're like, as long as this movie takes it as seriously as I'm taking it.

• 1:40:51David Sims?

  One dog dies and 100 people die in response.

• 1:40:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it was justified.

• 1:40:56David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:40:57Griffin Newman?

  When I for 100,000 eyes.

• 1:40:59David Sims?

  It used to be justified.

• 1:41:00Speaker 03

  Whereas the implied comedic death of the dog on the commercial sets.

• 1:41:04David Sims?

  Well, it has no bearing on the plot whatsoever.

• 1:41:07Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's used as a storytelling tool to communicate to the audience, he's bad at his job as props man.

• 1:41:15David Sims?

  And movie sets are not well run, I guess.

• 1:41:18Speaker 03

  And I would say arguably, if you were like, well, we need that moment to indicate to the audience that J.K. Simmons, J.K. Simmons' character can be kind of sloppy.

• 1:41:28Griffin Newman?

  Sloppy.

• 1:41:29Speaker 03

  Sloppy, kind of like.

• 1:41:30Griffin Newman?

  Bad instincts.

• 1:41:31Speaker 03

  It is literally, the thing you learn from that moment is the thing you learn from literally every other thing he says or does in the movie.

• 1:41:37Griffin Newman?

  Also, by the way, the introduction of the moment is, so J.K. Simmons is introduced working on a dog food commercial that is directed by Greg Grunberg and Bruce Campbell appears silently as the Humane Society rep. Just always love when the cones throw Bruce in there.

• 1:41:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:51Griffin Newman?

  But he, the, the dog, what is it? The collar is the prop that they're having an issue with?

• 1:41:57David Sims?

  We, we have to move on from this scene. That does not matter.

• 1:41:59Griffin Newman?

  No, it is important.

• 1:42:00Speaker 03

  Well, no, I'm just going through the.

• 1:42:01Griffin Newman?

  It is important as a encapsulation.

• 1:42:02Speaker 03

  The mean spirited aspect of the movie. I will also say, there's another question on the site.

• 1:42:06Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna finish my point on this. I must, I must. They go, hey, can you flow, can you fly in a new collar? And instead, J.K. Simmons puts a full fucking like World War I gas mask on the dog. And Grunberg's like, the fuck are you talking about? This is scary. They need to see the dog's face. The dog needs to eat the food. And he's like, well, I just saw it was an interesting take. We're already communicating he's bad at his job by him not thinking through it creatively. And then while they're having the conversation, the dog dies, which is just a heightening of he's bad at his job, that leaves a bad taste in people's mouth. I do think that's important to the like, there is nothing gained by killing the dog. The story beat is already accomplished by him just having the bad creative instinct. And it is in line with what this movie is doing, which is, as you said, just kind of

• 1:42:50Griffin Newman?

  like unnecessarily mean.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  One of the other questions that I really like the answer to on is, does the dog die? It doesn't have to do with the dog, so it is a new point. We're starting fresh. Is someone gaslighted? Someone has continually lied to throughout the film, but I don't think it is gaslighting is the response.

• 1:43:07Griffin Newman?

  Interesting. How do we, that's a, that's a fine hair to split.

• 1:43:11Speaker 03

  It's a really fine hair.

• 1:43:12Griffin Newman?

  I, we have talked about it before, David, on this podcast, Blank Check with Griffin and David. But I think in the eighties and especially in the nineties, it kind of tapers off in the early two thousands. There is a run of people attempting the like pitch black, dark murder comedy. Big studio comedy with movie stars, making a movie that feels kind of to its core evil. And it's about people trying to kill each other to get ahead, to pull off some con, to cover their tracks or whatever, that almost always plays like a fucking lead balloon with audiences. Lucky Numbers is one that we talked about. And I think in that episode, we talked about other movies that fit into the very bad things is another one.

• 1:43:51Speaker 03

  It's the meanness. There's a, like, the, the degree of how funny you have to be to overcome a certain level of meanness. It's just like, it's, I was thinking of it in terms of, because I think about this in terms of like, performing improv as well, where if you want to do a scene about certain things, it's just like at Chuck E. Cheese, the, or at any carnival where you have tickets and prizes. That's like, some things like, well, that's a million tickets.

• 1:44:18Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:44:19Speaker 03

  And there are certain things where it's like, if you're gonna make a joke about this thing.

• 1:44:22Griffin Newman?

  You need to hit the jackpot.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  Yes. You better have a million tickets worth of funny in this joke, or else you're, you don't have enough.

• 1:44:29David Sims?

  It's the same thing with this movie using the N word twice in its first two minutes.

• 1:44:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:44:33David Sims?

  Marlon Wayans is basically, pretty much every single fucking line that that guy says in the movie, you're kind of like, all right. And it's like, not that funny. If that shit's funny, I will forgive so much.

• 1:44:44Griffin Newman?

  But he is the least funny part of the film, undeniably.

• 1:44:46David Sims?

  What, look, if you're gonna use the N word in a movie, and it's written by you guys, like Joel Cohen and Ethan Cohen, that's what it says. I, unless it really, really feels like, yeah, this is part of the story, and I'm just gonna think about you guys writing that on your computer.

• 1:45:00Griffin Newman?

  Undoubtedly.

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  The thing we don't know.

• 1:45:02David Sims?

  And then like, talking to whoever about how to deliver the line, or whatever.

• 1:45:06Speaker 03

  And even if it is a scenario where.

• 1:45:08David Sims?

  I'm not saying you can't use, I'm like, I'm not trying to be some police.

• 1:45:11Speaker 03

  I wasn't asking, I wasn't asking to, I was, if you thought I was about to use the word, I'm not. Um.

• 1:45:16David Sims?

  No.

• 1:45:19Speaker 03

  The

• 1:45:20David Sims?

  You know what to call Michael Richards.

• 1:45:22Speaker 03

  The shooting, the shooting script, if we imagine that is just like, this was word perfect that that they did note for note, but even if, if I was making a movie and someone improvised and they use the N word a lot, I would still be editing that movie, knowing that like, people don't know that. It's not like

• 1:45:40Griffin Newman?

  They're gonna filter it through me.

• 1:45:41Speaker 03

  It's not like a, a little warning comes up on the screen saying Joel and Ethan were just including some pretty free

• 1:45:48David Sims?

  You brought that, you brought that.

• 1:45:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. I do want to say one more thing, just because it amuses me from does the dog die.com. There is the, and it does relate, it does relate to the dog, but I

• 1:45:59Griffin Newman?

  Connor's turning around. This is the best episode ever.

• 1:46:01Speaker 03

  I am confident, I am confident that you will on some level appreciate that I included this. One of the questions is, is there dog fighting? And the answer is, a dog is dressed as a world war one soldier, but does not fight.

• 1:46:14Griffin Newman?

  That's really good. Ben, I want to say, I want to ask something about, uh, the, the main archetypes of, of the gang in this film are transmuted from the main archetypes of, of the British film, but the characters are transformed pretty substantially. Do you want to wager a guess who played in the original, the role that Martin, Marlon Wayans plays in this film in 2004?

• 1:46:35David Sims?

  Uh, wait, what? What do you? Marlon Wayans. Who played the British version of Marlon Wayans in the original?

• 1:46:41Speaker 03

  And how much are you willing to wager?

• 1:46:42David Sims?

  He's probably willing to wager nothing. I'm gonna wager nothing. Uh, I, I don't, Mr. Bean? I don't know.

• 1:46:49Griffin Newman?

  Peter Sellers.

• 1:46:50David Sims?

  Kind of close. The Peter Sellers, the Mr. Bean of his day.

• 1:46:52Griffin Newman?

  Isn't that wild that in that movie, it's Cockney Peter Sellers?

• 1:46:56David Sims?

  It's not wild. That's what do you mean? That's like totally, I mean, obviously Peter Sellers, but he's an ealing standard guy. Like, that's the guy.

• 1:47:03Speaker 03

  Griffin, I'm gonna take your side on this.

• 1:47:04David Sims?

  What's wild is that Marlon Wayans is in this movie.

• 1:47:07Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry. That's, the wild part is, who's our generation's Peter Sellers?

• 1:47:12David Sims?

  Yeah. And like, I don't dislike Marlon Wayans.

• 1:47:15Griffin Newman?

  I like him a lot.

• 1:47:16David Sims?

  But I think he's whatever. I mean, I was gonna say he's not pitched right, but I don't know that anyone's pitched totally right in this movie because I really think it needs to be actually sillier.

• 1:47:28Griffin Newman?

  This is my thing though. Okay. So like, I, I cannot deny your truth, right? And I know that I'm Bernie Sanders nightmare. I'm in the 1% on this movie. I'm up against the wall, right? And it feels a little bit like funny, funny, 500 comedy points. I'm granting them to myself. Taking out a loan.

• 1:47:46David Sims?

  Wow.

• 1:47:46Griffin Newman?

  Distribution of wealth. Yeah. After a Bernie Sanders joke. It's, it's a more extreme version of what I felt like on our Johnny Dangerously episode, where I'm like, I watched this and I laugh.

• 1:47:57David Sims?

  But Johnny Dangerously is 10 times the movie.

• 1:47:59Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 1:48:00David Sims?

  In my opinion, like that's a pretty enjoyable watch.

• 1:48:02Griffin Newman?

  The defenders, it's a much larger group on Johnny Dangerously. It felt like that was a 50 50 split on this podcast, but also in our listenership. Right? This, I'm firmly Bernie Sanders nightmare, the 1%. But I feel the same way where I watched this and I'm like, I like the energy of this. I'm laughing at this. It doesn't all work for me. There's a ton I bump on.

• 1:48:20David Sims?

  What's the funny parts to you?

• 1:48:22Griffin Newman?

  I laugh like once a minute while watching this movie. I chuckle.

• 1:48:25David Sims?

  Name a moment.

• 1:48:26Griffin Newman?

  I'm not kidding.

• 1:48:26David Sims?

  No, you do.

• 1:48:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I do.

• 1:48:28David Sims?

  A minute?

• 1:48:29Griffin Newman?

  I watched this yesterday, I went like this. Once a minute.

• 1:48:32David Sims?

  That's a laugh.

• 1:48:33Griffin Newman?

  I did, I did a little quietly to myself.

• 1:48:36David Sims?

  What's the funniest part of this movie? What's the funniest thing that happens in Joel and Ethan Coens' Lady Killers, their debut film?

• 1:48:42Griffin Newman?

  The funniest thing that happens?

• 1:48:43David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:48:44Griffin Newman?

  Number one?

• 1:48:44David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:48:45Griffin Newman?

  J K Simmons face whenever he needs to poop.

• 1:48:47David Sims?

  Sure, that's kind of funny.

• 1:48:49Speaker 03

  No, every, every time, every time that Tom Hanks and Irma P. Hall are engaging direct with each other.

• 1:48:56Griffin Newman?

  They, they're good.

• 1:48:57Speaker 03

  I am, I am locked in. I'm enjoying it.

• 1:49:00David Sims?

  Are you laughing?

• 1:49:01Speaker 03

  I think. No, but I didn't cry. I didn't, I'm not, I'm not a 62nd man, the way that Griffin is.

• 1:49:06David Sims?

  You're not Gage.

• 1:49:07Griffin Newman?

  You're not. I am a one minute man. I want that on the record.

• 1:49:10David Sims?

  You are, Mr. Elliott.

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  Not just a one minute man, an every minute man.

• 1:49:13Griffin Newman?

  Every minute.

• 1:49:13Speaker 03

  That's a very different distinction.

• 1:49:14Griffin Newman?

  I'm every minute.

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  Anytime. Can I confess to a thing that made me laugh? And it ties into a thing that is problematic about the film and that you don't like about the film. When, when, uh, when I believe that Marlon Wayans uses the N word addressing Steven Root and Steven Root's reaction to that, I thought that was funny.

• 1:49:37David Sims?

  I think Root nails the discomfort of that scene quite well because Steven Root is a Swiss Army knife. That guy can literally do anything.

• 1:49:45Griffin Newman?

  Talk about an ultimate, when is that guy bad? That guy always nails it and he is one of the ultimate, he understood the assignment actor. Where it's like knows what movie is in, knows what size the role is, knows what needs to be accomplished in that scene.

• 1:50:00Speaker 03

  Can I tell a blind item thing? A thing I can't talk about, but it's Steven Root related?

• 1:50:04Griffin Newman?

  Please, let's get to the root of the issue.

• 1:50:06Speaker 03

  Is, oh, a new segment on the show?

• 1:50:08Griffin Newman?

  The root of the issue.

• 1:50:09Speaker 03

  The root of the issue. Do we have any play in music for that?

• 1:50:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Ben?

• 1:50:12Speaker 03

  Ben?

• 1:50:13Griffin Newman?

  Drop the root of the issue theme song.

• 1:50:31Speaker 04

  Okay, we just heard it.

• 1:50:32Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 1:50:33Speaker 03

  I love it. So every time we do this, and I'll come back to do this segment.

• 1:50:37Griffin Newman?

  We should press that on vinyl.

• 1:50:38Speaker 03

  Uh, ooh, limited edition record store day single.

• 1:50:41David Sims?

  Steven Root's character from A Brother could do it, press it on vinyl for him.

• 1:50:43Griffin Newman?

  Blind man.

• 1:50:44David Sims?

  Sing it into the can. Yeah.

• 1:50:46Speaker 03

  I, I worked on a thing. I can't talk about it. So I gotta be very careful here.

• 1:50:51Griffin Newman?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:50:52Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:50:52Griffin Newman?

  This item is as blind as Steven Root's character in No Brother Where Art Thou?

• 1:50:55Speaker 03

  Truly is. Oh, classic root of the matter. What is this segment called?

• 1:50:59Griffin Newman?

  Root of the issue, but maybe it's root of the matter because root of the issue makes it sound like there's an issue which there isn't.

• 1:51:03Speaker 03

  Can we get a remix for the newly titled Root of the Matter?

• 1:51:21Speaker 03

  Ooh, that is tasty.

• 1:51:22Griffin Newman?

  I like that. Press that on vinyl.

• 1:51:23Speaker 03

  Press it on vinyl, record store day single.

• 1:51:25Griffin Newman?

  What color do you think?

• 1:51:27Speaker 03

  What color?

• 1:51:28Griffin Newman?

  Beep, root, red.

• 1:51:30David Sims?

  Beep, root. There you go.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  What's the thing? I was on, I can't tell you what the thing is. I signed documents.

• 1:51:35David Sims?

  What's the fucking story?

• 1:51:36Speaker 03

  For crying out loud.

• 1:51:37David Sims?

  I'm gonna leave this podcast 20ish minutes.

• 1:51:40Speaker 03

  There we go. I was on a call sheet. And I know, which is a thing in the industry.

• 1:51:45David Sims?

  We all know what a call sheet is.

• 1:51:46Speaker 03

  I was hoping, I was talking to your least informed listener.

• 1:51:48David Sims?

  Keep going.

• 1:51:49Speaker 03

  And were you number one on the call sheet? I know there's one person out there who's saying, I can't keep up with this podcast. I, I don't, low.

• 1:51:56David Sims?

  Low, sure.

• 1:51:56Griffin Newman?

  Double dingies?

• 1:51:57Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't remember. I just remember being on a call sheet and noticing that Steven Root was also on this call sheet, being very excited. Can't tell you how this thing was made, where it was made, but I was-

• 1:52:11Griffin Newman?

  If you want to know how this thing got made, you could listen to how did this get made?

• 1:52:14Speaker 03

  I was-

• 1:52:14Griffin Newman?

  Podcast hosted by Paul.

• 1:52:15Speaker 03

  I was in a situation though, where I could hear him in the next room. And I heard Root at work. And it was really thrilling. I never saw him, but it was, it felt like, oh, I've really arrived a moment. I also put myself on tape for a role that I did not get in the movie Paint?

• 1:52:35Griffin Newman?

  Paint? Oh, the-

• 1:52:36Speaker 03

  The Owen Wilson?

• 1:52:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37Speaker 03

  And I believe Steven Root got that role.

• 1:52:40David Sims?

  He's in that film, yeah.

• 1:52:41Griffin Newman?

  You can never feel bad about losing a role to Root.

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  No, it actually feels good. It feels like whenever someone like that gets a role that you, I just feel honored that there was even a point where they were like, we're looking at other people.

• 1:52:53Griffin Newman?

  I was running in the same route as Root?

• 1:52:55Speaker 03

  I was on the Root route?

• 1:52:57David Sims?

  Is this story, has it happened yet? Is it done?

• 1:52:59Griffin Newman?

  It was good. What do you mean?

• 1:53:01David Sims?

  Okay, great, okay.

• 1:53:02Speaker 03

  Wait-

• 1:53:02David Sims?

  Moving on.

• 1:53:03Speaker 03

  That, I never said, did I say it was a story?

• 1:53:05Griffin Newman?

  It says it was a blind item.

• 1:53:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was an item.

• 1:53:07Griffin Newman?

  And we got, we got to the root of the matter.

• 1:53:09Speaker 04

  But let's just pause for the outro.

• 1:53:27Speaker 03

  Oh, shit, the outro's even better.

• 1:53:32Griffin Newman?

  Great B-side.

• 1:53:34David Sims?

  Um, so, uh, what's the film about? They're, uh, they need to tunnel into this, uh, vault, uh, from a riverside, a river-

• 1:53:42Griffin Newman?

  Ironically, the value of this house is that it has a root cellar.

• 1:53:49David Sims?

  Yes, it does, it does.

• 1:53:51Griffin Newman?

  And there's a riverboat casino in this territory. Casinos cannot operate on land. They have to operate on the water, maritime law. But they have-

• 1:53:59David Sims?

  Have a vault.

• 1:54:00Griffin Newman?

  An underground on land vault where the money goes every night before they lock it up. And the door is impenetrable, but, but if you were to dig through the back wall and this house is the closest, you could go in. Marlon Wayans is their inside man. The idea is that much like the movie Inside Man, they can break down the wall and repair it so that it looks like the money magically vanished and no one was ever the wiser.

• 1:54:24David Sims?

  Um-

• 1:54:26Speaker 03

  A little spoiler for a, if you don't like spoilers, get out now, uh, jump ahead 40. Is this, this is pre Inside Man, there's a, the Spike Lee movie and it kind of is the same.

• 1:54:40David Sims?

  Yes, it is a little bit.

• 1:54:41Speaker 03

  It's a similar.

• 1:54:42David Sims?

  I want to point something out, look in the Wikipedia page for this movie. This is a four paragraph, uh, plot description. The first two paragraphs, I would say are 80% of the movie, which to, and the final long paragraph essentially is the, the climax where everyone dies. Spoiler alert, everyone but Ernie P. Hall meets their end, uh, grisly end. Uh, kind of speaks to me to how like, there's not much, once they've sort of begun their scheme, there's not much happening.

• 1:55:10Griffin Newman?

  The, the original film is 90 minutes long. This film is.

• 1:55:14David Sims?

  It's a hundred and four and, uh, shouldn't be, it should be more like 90.

• 1:55:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, so this film's.

• 1:55:19Speaker 03

  But it wasn't made in the nineties.

• 1:55:20Griffin Newman?

  It wasn't made in the nineties, it was made in the early 2000s. Uh, this one's about 15 minutes longer than that one, right? I was, uh, watching the original last night. Uh, the, the old lady catches them at the exact halfway point. And that movie has much less of a planning the heist, the heist takes a while thing. It's like they show up, they basically do a robbery of an armored truck.

• 1:55:47Speaker 03

  They just block a street.

• 1:55:48Griffin Newman?

  In a cul-de-sac, yeah.

• 1:55:49Speaker 03

  They block a street and are pretty lucky about nobody sees them.

• 1:55:52Griffin Newman?

  It's like a quick hit job and then they're ready to immediately run out. And it's the same gag executed in a different way where the money flies all over the place. And she goes, where did this money come from? And they try to come up with an explanation, a lie. She says, you gotta go return the money. And then they all decide to take turns one at a time, killing her. But it's at the halfway point, 45 minutes that she catches them. And even then I still think it takes another 15 or 20 minutes before the first attempt is made. So the original is structured the same way proportionately in the lady killing chunk of it is only the last 25% of the film. And it's the same thing where it's the repetition of the death. They do their own thing with throwing the bodies over a train track that's similar with the garbage barge in this movie.

• 1:56:37Griffin Newman?

  But I'm just saying that's, that's from the material.

• 1:56:40David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, sure.

• 1:56:41Griffin Newman?

  I think this movie-

• 1:56:42David Sims?

  You guys, I don't like that movie that much. So that's not really a, I don't, I'm not a big fan of the 50's lady-

• 1:56:48Speaker 03

  Now I got you.

• 1:56:49David Sims?

  You didn't get me. I've seen that movie like once on TV.

• 1:56:52Speaker 03

  Trash the Eli movies from your beloved homeland.

• 1:56:55Griffin Newman?

  Like, kinda got your ass.

• 1:56:56David Sims?

  The defense of this movie can't be like, oh, well, the original isn't that good because I'm like, well, then fuck it.

• 1:57:00Griffin Newman?

  But I think a bunch of listeners are gonna be like, what are these guys dismissing the original? The original's incredible.

• 1:57:06Speaker 03

  And I think the original-

• 1:57:07Griffin Newman?

  I think we're in a minority here.

• 1:57:09Speaker 03

  I think the original was used as a cudgel to beat this movie with when it came out.

• 1:57:13David Sims?

  The problem with this movie is this movie. This movie's not very good. I'm sorry, guys.

• 1:57:18Speaker 03

  I think it's pretty good.

• 1:57:19Griffin Newman?

  Here are things I laugh at.

• 1:57:21David Sims?

  Five out of 10, maybe.

• 1:57:22Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a six. I think it's an ultimate gentleman six.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  And a, and a rude man seven.

• 1:57:27David Sims?

  To me, it's a, I'm very politely extending the five because everyone tried.

• 1:57:32Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a B minus. Can I, can I make a couple little cases for it? And just explain what I like about it, right?

• 1:57:38David Sims?

  Honestly, yes, because we're wrapping up soon.

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  Oh, what? This is the first I'm hearing of this?

• 1:57:42David Sims?

  Yes. I'm letting you guys know.

• 1:57:44Griffin Newman?

  And I want to talk about Hanks's performance a little bit more because I like it.

• 1:57:47Speaker 03

  I like it too.

• 1:57:47Griffin Newman?

  Anytime he has-

• 1:57:48Speaker 03

  And not just because we're friends.

• 1:57:50Griffin Newman?

  A continuous paragraph of dialogue, I laugh at at least one thing he says.

• 1:57:54David Sims?

  I think that stuff's pretty funny.

• 1:57:55Griffin Newman?

  I think that is the, the exact kind of language stuff that I think the Coens do better than anyone else on the planet, is people getting caught in circular monologues that have jokes nestled within jokes within jokes. And then the character reacting, the outside being like, I have no idea what the fuck you just said.

• 1:58:09David Sims?

  I does think, I do think it grinds the movie to a halt. It's kind of, it's funny to watch him do it. He's having so much fun and I do appreciate watching him have fun.

• 1:58:18Griffin Newman?

  And he's unencumbered. You feel him for the first time in 15 years being like, I can do anything.

• 1:58:22David Sims?

  But it does grind the movie to a halt. It's sort of like, okay, let's stop and watch this funny thing sort of happen.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  I, and I would say that is both part of what's wrong with the movie and it's also so intentional in the sense that like, you not liking it is different than them like fucking up. That's part of, part of what doesn't work about this movie is that it's a, it's a very minor kind of movie. It feels like, um.

• 1:58:51David Sims?

  This is, this is my least favorite defense of a movie.

• 1:58:53Griffin Newman?

  It's a lark. This movie, no, but it's like, you have to acknowledge, the most I can defend this movie is still like, I think it is a well executed, unimportant movie.

• 1:59:01David Sims?

  Thing where suddenly George Lucas is in a corner, he's like, Star Wars is for children and nobody needs to like it. Like, I'm like, okay, all right, George.

• 1:59:09Griffin Newman?

  But I'm also.

• 1:59:09David Sims?

  This movie is pointless. It's fine that it's bad. No, that's not actually a defense to me.

• 1:59:14Griffin Newman?

  No, what I, no, I'm not saying that. Minor by design.

• 1:59:17Speaker 03

  I, I'm saying that.

• 1:59:19David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:59:20Speaker 03

  Because, because I'm also defending the movie, saying it is undeniably, in my opinion, their worst movie. But I also think as low points the filmmakers go, there's still so, I, there's.

• 1:59:30David Sims?

  There's no defense that there's a great low point to have.

• 1:59:33Speaker 03

  There are a, a lot of.

• 1:59:34David Sims?

  No, no argument.

• 1:59:35Speaker 03

  There are a lot of low points for filmmakers where I'm like, I just wish they hadn't made that movie. And with Ladykillers, I don't wish that they hadn't made this movie.

• 1:59:43Griffin Newman?

  This is one of our.

• 1:59:43Speaker 03

  I'm glad that it exists.

• 1:59:44Griffin Newman?

  This is going to be one of our longest mini series ever, right? It is over 20 films, including the films directed by Joel Cohen Solo, Ethan Cohen with his wife and Joel and Ethan together, right?

• 1:59:56Speaker 03

  Which this is the first, they're figuring it out, man.

• 1:59:59Griffin Newman?

  But this is the lowest point.

• 2:00:01David Sims?

  Babes in the woods.

• 2:00:02Griffin Newman?

  And I think this is pretty high for the worst film in filmographies.

• 2:00:06Speaker 03

  And as far as.

• 2:00:07Griffin Newman?

  That we've covered on this show.

• 2:00:08Speaker 03

  As far as reclamation goes, when this movie came out, I fully was, I know you've talked about this before, I fully was of the belief that they had lost their ability to make movies and that they were on a decline that would never stop.

• 2:00:21David Sims?

  This was a, they are cooked. Where it was like, I wouldn't go so far as are they cooked, but it's the closest.

• 2:00:27Griffin Newman?

  I think the fact that this and Hell Recruti were both disliked and were both seen as them attempting to go more mainstream.

• 2:00:35David Sims?

  Mainstream with a big star and both times the reaction from the general public is negative.

• 2:00:40Griffin Newman?

  Not only do we not like what they're making, but it seems like they've sold out their own values and now I guess they're just looking to get assignment jobs. I think people were like, well, they're done. The fact that it's like three full years before No Country and it felt like it kind of came out of nowhere.

• 2:00:55Speaker 03

  I, I feel like I'm, I, when I watch it now, I feel like there is pleasure to be had in another crazy Coen Brothers movie that has its own specific thing. I don't like the mean spirited aspects of a lot of it. There's a lot of things in it that don't work. I think the structure of it veers intentionally away from satisfaction in places.

• 2:01:15David Sims?

  Yeah, except for right at the end. I do feel like, well, okay, so my.

• 2:01:21Griffin Newman?

  I think it is satisfying to watch all these guys get killed. I think in that sense, the movie is smart. Yes.

• 2:01:26David Sims?

  So like, um, you know, they get rumbled. They decide they have to kill Irma P. Hall. First, Tom Hanks tries to win her over, which is a pretty fun scene.

• 2:01:34Speaker 03

  And I, that's one of my favorite bits of the thing is when he's like, I'm just gonna.

• 2:01:38David Sims?

  And you're sort of watching him almost, you know, knock her down.

• 2:01:42Griffin Newman?

  By the way, I'm sorry to circle back to your question of what is the funniest part of this movie? I can tell you what I think the funniest part of this movie is.

• 2:01:48David Sims?

  The question.

• 2:01:49Griffin Newman?

  And it's the scene that almost for me represents its key value. Irma P. Hall trying to get George Wallace to meet the professor. And Tom Hanks is eluding him and George Wallace increasingly thinks.

• 2:02:01David Sims?

  George Wallace plays a sheriff who basically is only sitting in a chair.

• 2:02:04Griffin Newman?

  This is an imaginary figure. She's an old lady who's lost her mind and she clocks that he's hiding under the bed. And Irma P. Hall has this conversation with Tom Hanks under the bed where she's giggling and going, professor, why are you drinking tea under the bed? And George Wallace looking at her like, this is like a weird.

• 2:02:21David Sims?

  Right. That's pretty funny.

• 2:02:23Griffin Newman?

  Breakdown for a woman to have and him just making the shush finger under the bed. I just find everything about that scene funny.

• 2:02:29Speaker 04

  I think we should maybe call back something that came up in the Johnny Dangerously episode, which is that I would say drop the NY and it's fun.

• 2:02:38Griffin Newman?

  I'm giggling.

• 2:02:39David Sims?

  But that is, I think.

• 2:02:40Griffin Newman?

  Why are you drinking tea?

• 2:02:41David Sims?

  Something we really hit on in that Johnny Dangerously episode where it's like, right? Do you find something kind of fun versus actually fun?

• 2:02:47Griffin Newman?

  If you don't find this movie funny, there's nothing I can say to convince you of its value. Like I, I can see that that is.

• 2:02:53David Sims?

  People did not, obviously.

• 2:02:54Speaker 03

  I want to say this and no disrespect intended. I've lived in New York for almost a quarter of a century. I will never drop the NY.

• 2:03:02David Sims?

  It's a good point. Thank you. And thank you for saying that. And you know what? So Ramam Dami is happy that you're gonna stay here. Our future wonderful mayor.

• 2:03:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I mean, somewhere. Boy, let's hope so.

• 2:03:13David Sims?

  Anyway, Lady Killers. Yeah, like.

• 2:03:15Griffin Newman?

  The first half of the movie is the heist planning into the heist. And then, right, an explosive goes off that throws the money all over the place.

• 2:03:23David Sims?

  She walks in.

• 2:03:24Griffin Newman?

  So they think she's gonna be at church. She comes home early to make tea.

• 2:03:27David Sims?

  The deaths proceed in this order. The first is Marlin, who is almost happy initially to kill her, but then flashes back to his childhood and his own mother.

• 2:03:38Griffin Newman?

  Who used to sit in the living room in the same way.

• 2:03:40David Sims?

  Right. And realizes he can't do it.

• 2:03:42Griffin Newman?

  And I'm sorry, just to circle back briefly, Tom Hanks first tries to sell her a load of bullshit. She doesn't buy it.

• 2:03:49David Sims?

  Yeah, she almost buys it. He's like, we're gonna, we're barely, we're just affecting.

• 2:03:53Griffin Newman?

  First, he says, everything you saw was a misunderstanding. The money was flying because he doesn't believe in banking, this and this and that.

• 2:03:59Speaker 03

  And that's one of my favorite moments because you have, I feel like both of those characters have to operate at a higher level of intelligence because it's like, I don't buy this. And he's like, oh, I have to, I have to make my lives better to fool this lady.

• 2:04:10Griffin Newman?

  It is my favorite Hanks performance moment, which is in that scene when he finally goes like, let me level with you. We are not musicians of the Rococo era, nor any other era, right? We are criminals. And in one sustained shot, the light behind Hanks's eyes goes out. All of the effort he does to play charming, when he hits the word criminals, he starts looking evil without doing anything demonstrable on his face.

• 2:04:34Speaker 03

  And establishing the importance of eyes in film acting.

• 2:04:39Griffin Newman?

  They gotta be alive. But then he admits to her, this is what we did because of the insurance policy. It's not like anyone lost their money. It's $1 added on to everyone's plan. And we could cut you into this and give you money to donate to Bob Jones University.

• 2:04:51David Sims?

  Tries to sell her on that.

• 2:04:52Griffin Newman?

  She says, it's not right.

• 2:04:54David Sims?

  She almost gets there.

• 2:04:55Griffin Newman?

  Almost.

• 2:04:56David Sims?

  Yeah. And then she gives up.

• 2:04:57Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna.

• 2:04:57Speaker 03

  I like thinking that.

• 2:04:58Griffin Newman?

  To the station and you're gonna hand the money back.

• 2:05:00Speaker 03

  I like thinking, it's never occurred to me that that moment where Tom Hanks literally like drains the life from his eyes.

• 2:05:06Griffin Newman?

  It was.

• 2:05:07Speaker 03

  That he maybe thought back to my Band of Brothers audition tape.

• 2:05:10Griffin Newman?

  Quite possibly.

• 2:05:10Speaker 03

  I saw an actor do something once. If I can pull it off in this moment, then maybe we got a movie.

• 2:05:15Griffin Newman?

  Truly is. He goes Connor mode.

• 2:05:17David Sims?

  So Marlin. Is flashes back to his mother.

• 2:05:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's trying to shoot her.

• 2:05:22David Sims?

  Doesn't really work.

• 2:05:22Griffin Newman?

  With a handgun and a pillow.

• 2:05:24David Sims?

  And so then he comes back and gets shot in a struggle with J K Simmons.

• 2:05:28Griffin Newman?

  With Pancake. Pancake has been angling for a bigger cut. A, he brings Mountain Girl into the arrangement, which was not agreed upon. She enters the circle of trust and they agree that she's gonna have to split his share. But then he also loses his finger and explosion wants workman's comp.

• 2:05:45David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:05:46Griffin Newman?

  Is not granted it.

• 2:05:47David Sims?

  J K Simmons, of course, at this point, he was just such a reliable, funny guy.

• 2:05:51Griffin Newman?

  Film with him?

• 2:05:51David Sims?

  Yeah, but I mean, like in any movie.

• 2:05:53Griffin Newman?

  The first, same year as Spider-Man 2.

• 2:05:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:05:55Griffin Newman?

  I love his character. I love his mustache.

• 2:05:57David Sims?

  Mustache, great.

• 2:05:57Griffin Newman?

  I love his repeated, the Coen Brothers sort of cycle repetition of both images and dialogue. And, you know, I like the rhythms of Coen Brothers films. The way he keeps going just a trial balloon pitching bad ideas.

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  Easiest thing in the world. There's another good runner.

• 2:06:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but then he, yes, struggles with Marlon Wayans as they get into a fight. They've been bickering the whole time.

• 2:06:23David Sims?

  So that's Marlon dies, they throw him on the barge and we're like, okay, now we are in the, people get thrown on the barge, like, you know, this is the thing.

• 2:06:31Griffin Newman?

  Right. Then Zima is up next. Another thing that makes me laugh, every time he swallows the cigarette.

• 2:06:36David Sims?

  Uh, well, it only happens once or twice, right? He, well, he hides the cigarette is what you're referring to.

• 2:06:43Griffin Newman?

  And then he's able to kick it back out.

• 2:06:44David Sims?

  Which is great. Zima is the best part of this movie. But he dies because he swallows the cigarette. He's startled. No, what happens next is Pancake tries to escape with the money and Zima kills them. And then he tries to kill her, but startled by a cuckoo clock, swallows his cigarette, falls down the stairs.

• 2:07:03Griffin Newman?

  Pancake tries to escape while the rest of them are disposing of Goine's body.

• 2:07:07Speaker 03

  There's a gag that I didn't remember noticing the first time and it feels like the type of gag. It didn't make me laugh. It's a little mean spirited, but I, it felt like the type of thing that's like, I bet the Coens enjoyed this detail, which is that when, uh, J K Simmons and Mountain Girl are both killed. So they have two bodies to dispose of and you see them holding these legs with boots and pretty hairy legs. And you're like, oh, that must be J K Simmons. They drop the body and then you see the next body and the legs are even hairier.

• 2:07:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:07:34Speaker 03

  Um.

• 2:07:35David Sims?

  The I the Zima one is the one that is, I think is good because it's physical humor. That's part of the story. It's part of the the house they're in. Marlon Wayans one is kind of an anticlimax. The Ryan Hurst, the character we haven't mentioned, because he's not that interesting.

• 2:07:50Griffin Newman?

  Although I do think it's a good performance. And after this, he becomes like.

• 2:07:54David Sims?

  He's the Sons of Anarchy guy.

• 2:07:56Griffin Newman?

  Right. And he was on Walking Dead like he becomes after this exclusively like big weird beard. Oh, soulful haunted men.

• 2:08:04David Sims?

  He basically has a change of heart and is like, actually, maybe we should turn ourselves in.

• 2:08:09Griffin Newman?

  Which is the same thing that happens in the original that one round.

• 2:08:13David Sims?

  Right. Hank fails, shoots himself.

• 2:08:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:08:16David Sims?

  By mistake.

• 2:08:17Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a good gag.

• 2:08:18David Sims?

  Not bad. Physically, it works like.

• 2:08:20Griffin Newman?

  And that he basically right, just immediately falls over. Yeah.

• 2:08:23David Sims?

  And then, uh.

• 2:08:25Griffin Newman?

  And I.

• 2:08:25David Sims?

  Door thinks he's gotten away with it. He's gonna take all the money and then gets clocked in the head with a.

• 2:08:31Griffin Newman?

  Gargoyle with a raven on top. He loves Edgar Allan Poe and the gargle is the opening shot of the movie.

• 2:08:35David Sims?

  And he breaks his neck. It's classic Gwen Stacy style.

• 2:08:39Speaker 03

  And the anticlimax aspect of it, which also comes from the original, which is that these things sort of happen. And they're like, oh, they sort of just like one dies, then the other.

• 2:08:48Griffin Newman?

  The problem kind of completely solves itself.

• 2:08:50Speaker 03

  You have like a villain, a comedic villain who's set up in both versions where you're like, sort of waiting for him to do the villainous thing.

• 2:08:57Griffin Newman?

  He's presented as a criminal mastermind.

• 2:09:00Speaker 03

  In neither movie.

• 2:09:01Griffin Newman?

  You're like, is this guy just a total blowhard?

• 2:09:03Speaker 03

  In neither movie does that character ever truly, you never see him actually like kill somebody in a way that feels like, oh, this is the moment we've been waiting for.

• 2:09:10Griffin Newman?

  In in the Ealing one, there's the bit with Herbert Lom where he's crowbaring the, the.

• 2:09:17Speaker 03

  The thing that so he'll.

• 2:09:18Griffin Newman?

  The fucking ladder. That feels like the closest to him sort of screwing a guy.

• 2:09:22Speaker 03

  But in this one, it feels like Hanks is going to have to kill the strong dumb guy. And then he doesn't. And it's like, oh, I didn't have to do that. That beat that we're sort of anticipating from the beginning.

• 2:09:31Griffin Newman?

  But he's just.

• 2:09:32Speaker 03

  And then we're thinking, oh, now we're gonna see he's gonna have to do the killing. And then the movie takes care of it before you ever have to have a scene where he tries and fails to kill.

• 2:09:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:09:41David Sims?

  Um, yeah, you know, it's all right. Deacon's popping off at this point. I would say it looks pretty good.

• 2:09:47Griffin Newman?

  A couple of things here. Okay. First of all, I just think this movie looks incredible.

• 2:09:52David Sims?

  Yeah, it looks good.

• 2:09:53Griffin Newman?

  I think like

• 2:09:54David Sims?

  Dickens is great.

• 2:09:55Griffin Newman?

  If we're not viewing this through the prism of the Coen Brothers filmography, which I know is the main exercise of the show, and we're thinking like, this is just a touchstone comedy that is released in April. I do the mental exercise while watching this movie of being like, what if this was directed by a first timer?

• 2:10:11Speaker 03

  Because of course it is.

• 2:10:12Griffin Newman?

  It is. What if this came out of the blue and it was like, oh, it's directed by some guy who did commercials before this? I do think I'd be like, that movie isn't great, but who the fuck directed this? It is like so well constructed. Obviously you think it's lifeless. I think it's got energy.

• 2:10:26David Sims?

  Lifeless, but low energy.

• 2:10:27Griffin Newman?

  Every time it does one of the like Trouble This World montages, I'm really kind of like in on the kinetic energy of the motion of this movie and the way it uses the music, the look of it, the performances, the styling. Like I think on a basic craft level, it is not like markedly a step down from their best work. You could just say all of that craft is applied to something that is less worthy of their craft than most of their films, but it's not like they have a film in their filmography where it's like, that's a complete fucking drop of the ball fart. It's incompetent. It is lacking identity.

• 2:11:06Speaker 03

  I think this movie benefits from going into it. I think everybody who watches it at this point, I think it's to the benefit if you go in with a feeling of like, this is their worst one.

• 2:11:16Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 2:11:17Speaker 03

  Lower your expectations.

• 2:11:18Griffin Newman?

  You gotta watch it that way. And at this point, we also don't have to watch it with the fear of like, oh, fuck, have they lost it? And it's like, hey, guess what? Right after this, they won best picture. They've continued to make great films. This wasn't the end of a golden age for them. This just becomes a weird blip.

• 2:11:34Speaker 03

  And there are things they do in this film that it's not like they just made a film. It's like, well, it's like a bad version of this other film of theirs. There are, the things that I find pleasurable in this movie aren't just things where I'm like, oh, I could just go watch Bart and Fink again and I'll get that out of it.

• 2:11:51Griffin Newman?

  And I know you like Burn After Reading less than me, David.

• 2:11:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:54Griffin Newman?

  That is a movie I love, but Burn After Reading is actually weirdly similar to this one and feels like a much better version of this, even down to Like the comedic deaths and the misunderstanding and all of that. That movie, I would argue, has a point of view that this film does not have.

• 2:12:08Speaker 03

  I, well, I tend to think.

• 2:12:09David Sims?

  Yeah, I think that movie has more, right, more driving its tone.

• 2:12:13Griffin Newman?

  It, it has, it has ideas in it that are, relate to the way that Joel and Ethan see the world. Whereas this is a comedy about comedy. Like, it's not actually about.

• 2:12:24Speaker 03

  I, I'm gonna push back on that slightly and say this, because I always tend to think of their next film as a trilogy. Their next three films as a trilogy of sorts, because I, I always feel like No Country For Old Men is about this sort of, it's the drama version of like, there, there's an evil, there's a darkness in the world. And we're gonna look at these systems that are trying to deal with it, but ultimately, like, can they? Maybe they're not built for it. Burn After Reading always feels to me like the comic B-side of No Country For Old Men. The same world, the same fucked up systems, but instead it's all these ridiculous bureaucratic fools that are sort of, they don't even know what's going on. That both movies end with a similar thing, which is like, I don't know what's going on.

• 2:12:59Griffin Newman?

  Maybe none of this mattered or meant anything.

• 2:13:01Speaker 03

  And, and then A Serious Man, sort of like, in a, in a, takes a, an even like broader view of like, the, the universe in a way. And now I'm sort of, for the first time, thinking of Ladykillers as being sort of like, um, sort of like a pre, like, those four movies, because there is a worldview to this in the sense of, you have a main character who is put forward as like, a smart person who is well-intentioned. But in this world where you have these like, bad men who are trying to do something, she's ultimately going to like, get this windfall of money at the end and donate it to, and I, I pray their lawyers aren't listening. Bob Jones University.

• 2:13:44Speaker 03

  Oh, this is a comedy podcast in many ways. I gotta be allowed to joke and riff.

• 2:13:50Griffin Newman?

  Comedy's about pushing boundaries, sometimes we miss.

• 2:13:52Speaker 03

  Please do not sue this.

• 2:13:54Griffin Newman?

  Please don't sue us. And if you want to sue us, I want to remind you that the opinions expressed by Connor Ratliff do not reflect the opinions of Blank Check Podcast or Blank Check Productions overall. They are the opinions of one individual. Please sue Connor Ratliff.

• 2:14:08Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:14:09Griffin Newman?

  But don't, but don't.

• 2:14:10Speaker 03

  Please also don't.

• 2:14:11Griffin Newman?

  Sue him, but if you're gonna sue us, sue him.

• 2:14:13Speaker 03

  But I do feel like that is a subversive ending at the beginning of a series of, I think the endings of the next three Coen Brothers movies were all these like, oh my God, that's the way to end a movie. And I love the fact that this kind of like broad Disney comedy ends with like a happy ending that also has like, if you know where the money is going, this is a movie about a bunch of criminals who all die and the money ends up going someplace that is not a ultimately like a happy ending.

• 2:14:40Griffin Newman?

  No. I also, it is a funny thought experiment to consider if Barry Sonnenfeld had made this in 2004 with Nicolas Cage, I don't think it would have been a big hit. But I do think people would have been like, kind of an upswing for Barry Sonnenfeld versus where it was at with the Coens. Like if he had made.

• 2:15:00David Sims?

  But this movie wouldn't be very good if Barry Sonnenfeld had made it like even compared to the Coen version.

• 2:15:05Griffin Newman?

  But I also think it would have been a little similar. Of all of the films they made with Deacons, this is the one that feels the most Sonnenfeldy to me.

• 2:15:14David Sims?

  It's true, but I just want to point out to you this thing in Barry Sonnenfeld's career where after Get Shorty and Black, he makes absolutely abhorrently bad movies.

• 2:15:22Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 2:15:23David Sims?

  And so it's sort of that thing of like, maybe he just didn't know how to make a good movie anymore.

• 2:15:27Griffin Newman?

  But this feels like the kind of film he should have been making. That having been said, Big Trouble feels like him trying to get Shorty again. He couldn't pull that off.

• 2:15:34Speaker 03

  Can I ask a question?

• 2:15:35Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 2:15:37Speaker 03

  One of the things, one of the questions on DoesTheDogDie.com says.

• 2:15:40Griffin Newman?

  Good, good, good. No, no, we gotta answer.

• 2:15:42David Sims?

  I want to get out of here.

• 2:15:43Griffin Newman?

  David, we gotta answer.

• 2:15:44Speaker 03

  If I, I'll tell you this, if I don't say what I'm about to say, your listeners are gonna lose it.

• 2:15:49Griffin Newman?

  Connor, you're saying.

• 2:15:49Speaker 03

  Because they'll always wonder what was it.

• 2:15:51Griffin Newman?

  You're saying it right now and also I have to do a merchandise spotlight. Connor, go on.

• 2:15:54Speaker 03

  The question under the, under the category fear, it says, are there ghosts? And the commenter says, no ghost appears, but I am pretty sure that all of the stuff happens because of the ghost of the lady's dead husband.

• 2:16:06Griffin Newman?

  I like this.

• 2:16:07Speaker 03

  His portrait also continually changes throughout the movie and there are flickering candles.

• 2:16:11Griffin Newman?

  This movie has good, good, good.

• 2:16:12David Sims?

  What's the merchandise part? Merchandise spotlight?

• 2:16:15Griffin Newman?

  First you gotta say the sentence properly. David, you're alma mater, the AV club. That has now gone through many different hands of corporate ownership and is a website that is like fucking nerf to death and trying to read archives of the AV Club is

• 2:16:28David Sims?

  It'd be tough to sift through that.

• 2:16:29Griffin Newman?

  A headache, especially any article that originally used to have images. They would do a yearly feature, do you remember Swagology? A feature I loved when I was young that was in an era before social media where people share this stuff all the fucking time. The AV Club, once a year, would do a roundup of all the promotional items they had gotten from studios for TV shows and movies, new releases. And they would rate what's the best and what's the worst swag we got. And in 2004, they referenced that the fine folks at Walt Disney Pictures sent them a Ladykillers branded waffle iron. To your point about the waffles being the main hook of the marketing, I think it's

• 2:17:10Griffin Newman?

  because, by the way, that scene in a microcosm is what in theory the comic juice of this movie should be, which is this guy acts like this and has to confront the real world being like, why are you talking like that and why are you dressed like that? The inherent comedy of him ordering waffles at the Waffle House in a way that no one understands.

• 2:17:30David Sims?

  I'm not finding a single thing about this on the air.

• 2:17:32Griffin Newman?

  I was doing such deep Googling. I found them referencing it in a later Swagology. I have been looking for years to find one on eBay. I've never found an image of one. I remember there being one at AV Club at the time, but in their 2009 Swagology, they talk about getting swag from Gordon Ramsay's Hotel Hell and Kitchen Nightmares, and they say, this will go in our pantry right next to our Ladykillers waffle iron. It exists, and if any one of our listeners can find one or send me one, please, please. I need to know I'm not crazy.

• 2:18:06Speaker 03

  Can I just hop on real quick? I know that Griffin put out the offer first. If anyone has one, please send it one his way. If someone has two?

• 2:18:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:18:13Speaker 03

  I really love that second one. I don't want to rain on Griffin's parade. I really want that. Someone's like, I got two of these. One way to do it.

• 2:18:19David Sims?

  26, 2004. First in the box office, Griffin, is opening number two to $12 million.

• 2:18:26Griffin Newman?

  It ends up making 30?

• 2:18:27David Sims?

  It made domestically, it made 30, the number's nine?

• 2:18:32Griffin Newman?

  It cost like 40.

• 2:18:34David Sims?

  35 to 40.

• 2:18:35Griffin Newman?

  Which is pretty crazy considering that Hank's probably got 20 or close to.

• 2:18:39David Sims?

  There's no way he got 20.

• 2:18:40Griffin Newman?

  What do you think he got 10, 15?

• 2:18:42David Sims?

  A lot less.

• 2:18:42Griffin Newman?

  My man took a haircut on this one?

• 2:18:44David Sims?

  100%. I'm sure he was way below his quote on this.

• 2:18:46Griffin Newman?

  And how much? Budget was under 40 and made 70 something worldwide?

• 2:18:50David Sims?

  Yeah, it probably, you know.

• 2:18:51Speaker 03

  And how much money were they, how much money were they stealing in the heist in the, in the, from the casino?

• 2:18:57Griffin Newman?

  That's a great question. The original is $60,000. I'm guessing it's like 600,000 in this? Yeah.

• 2:19:02Speaker 03

  Cause I'd love to know how much more money the movie made than the heist was.

• 2:19:05Griffin Newman?

  Quite a bit.

• 2:19:06Speaker 03

  That'd be like a fun segment.

• 2:19:07David Sims?

  Number one at the box office is a sequel.

• 2:19:10Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:19:10David Sims?

  Sort of a family, I guess.

• 2:19:13Griffin Newman?

  It's a family adjacent movie.

• 2:19:15David Sims?

  Sort of genre. I'm sure you were there opening weekend.

• 2:19:18Griffin Newman?

  2004. Is it live action or animated?

• 2:19:19David Sims?

  It's live action with some animated characters.

• 2:19:22Griffin Newman?

  You say I was there opening weekend derisively. That means of course it has to be Scooby Doo 2: Colon Monsters Unleashed is one of my favorite subtitles, but it is also one of the worst titles of all time.

• 2:19:34David Sims?

  Now.

• 2:19:34Griffin Newman?

  Because they should have done Scooby 2, Scooby T O O, Scooby Duh. There's so many opportunities there and they whiffed on all of them.

• 2:19:43David Sims?

  Scooby Dooby Doo.

• 2:19:44Speaker 03

  Scooby, Scooby Dooby 2.

• 2:19:46Griffin Newman?

  Scooby Dooby 2. They, they, any of these they could have done and they did not. It's just called Scooby Doo: Numeral 2: Colon Monsters Unleashed, a movie with a great premise and terrible execution written by James Gunn.

• 2:19:58David Sims?

  Um, Scooby Doo 2 Monsters Unleashed, opening to a healthy $29 million for a movie that bad.

• 2:20:05Griffin Newman?

  But the first one came out in the middle of the summer and opened to like 55. It was the biggest opening weekend Warner Brothers had had.

• 2:20:11David Sims?

  Yeah. I mean, I think it, this one's.

• 2:20:13Griffin Newman?

  The whole cast talks about that they felt like they dumped it coming off a big hit.

• 2:20:18David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And it ends up at like 90?

• 2:20:21David Sims?

  Um, it ends up at 84.

• 2:20:24Griffin Newman?

  It does like half of what the previous, yeah.

• 2:20:26David Sims?

  Number three at the box office is the actual box office success of this year, this moment.

• 2:20:31Griffin Newman?

  I believe it's called The Passion of the Christ.

• 2:20:33David Sims?

  That is correct.

• 2:20:34Griffin Newman?

  It's one of the most successful movies of all time.

• 2:20:36David Sims?

  In five weeks, it has made $315 million.

• 2:20:39Griffin Newman?

  And say.

• 2:20:40David Sims?

  Number four at the box office is a collabo between the two most recent people to be involved with Superman.

• 2:20:46Griffin Newman?

  Oh, it's Dawn of the Dead?

• 2:20:47David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:20:47Griffin Newman?

  So Gunna has two movies in theaters.

• 2:20:49David Sims?

  Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead, uh, which is, uh, has a 60% drop after being number one last weekend, but nonetheless, a decent hit. Yes. And a good movie. Number five at the box office, probably drawing a lot of fire away from Tom Hanks sort of having a bit of a flop on his.

• 2:21:04Griffin Newman?

  Someone else's flopping harder?

• 2:21:05David Sims?

  Is a huge flop.

• 2:21:07Griffin Newman?

  A notorious flop?

• 2:21:08David Sims?

  I, I would say somewhat notorious, directed by some, uh, someone who's been on this show multiple times.

• 2:21:13Griffin Newman?

  Who's been a guest on the show?

• 2:21:15David Sims?

  Two times, two time guest.

• 2:21:17Griffin Newman?

  A two time guest directed a huge flop.

• 2:21:19David Sims?

  It's him swerving to a more sort of like, uh, kind of grown up type movie. Doesn't work.

• 2:21:25Griffin Newman?

  Is it in good company?

• 2:21:26David Sims?

  No, that's a good movie.

• 2:21:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's why I'm confused. Oh, and that was also Paul Solo, right?

• 2:21:30David Sims?

  I believe so.

• 2:21:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 2:21:31David Sims?

  Um, no, it's a, but it's, it's more, it becomes a, it's not a particularly big hit, but it's, gets a lot of press because of the star and another co-star and the press around them at the time unrelated to this movie.

• 2:21:43Griffin Newman?

  Was there a romantic entanglement in 2004 and they were swinging serious?

• 2:21:49David Sims?

  It's more grown up. It's a comedy, like, like comedy.

• 2:21:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes. The film is called Jersey Girl.

• 2:21:55David Sims?

  Yes. Kevin Smith's Jersey Girl.

• 2:21:56Griffin Newman?

  Not a bad film at all.

• 2:21:57David Sims?

  It's totally fine.

• 2:21:58Griffin Newman?

  It, it is so much better than its reputation suggests. I do believe.

• 2:22:02David Sims?

  Hammered by the press.

• 2:22:03Griffin Newman?

  He at his Atlantic Smart Castle Theater that he owns in New Jersey. I think they have once or twice in the last couple of years done secret screenings of his director's cut that I've heard is quite a bit better. That is a movie that obviously there was a lot of Weinstein panic cutting around J-Lo after Geely bombed, where they were trying to hide her in the movie, but either way, she dies in the first act. Anyway, uh, not a, not a bad film.

• 2:22:27David Sims?

  Number six of the box office is Taking Lives. That's the, uh,

• 2:22:30Griffin Newman?

  Angelina Jolie, DJ Caruso?

• 2:22:32David Sims?

  Yeah. Not a good movie.

• 2:22:33Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:22:34David Sims?

  Number seven is Starsky and Hutch.

• 2:22:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, really kinda not a good movie, but like terrible movie.

• 2:22:40David Sims?

  Sort of skates along, right? It's got a couple of moments.

• 2:22:43Speaker 03

  I do remember there was a point where I was checking out movies from the New York Public Library when I realized you could check them out on DVD. And a movie that, and that was a movie that had such a long waiting list that you would never be, it had like hundreds of holds.

• 2:22:57Griffin Newman?

  That's so funny.

• 2:22:58Speaker 03

  So it's like, oh, you'd never be able to get Starsky and Hutch from the New York Public Library. They just didn't have enough copies to meet with demand for people who wanted that movie for free.

• 2:23:05Griffin Newman?

  Todd Phillips did an interview when that movie came out where he was like, we're not trying to do like a parody of the original show. We're not trying to do a Brady Bunch movie thing. Our pitch was like, this was the original pilot for Starsky and Hutch. And the network said, can you make it 10% less funny? And then I remember seeing the movie and going, that's exactly what it is. And that's a weird thing to aim for.

• 2:23:24David Sims?

  Not waited, but it was a solid hit.

• 2:23:26Griffin Newman?

  It did well.

• 2:23:27David Sims?

  Um, number eight of the box office, bit of a, it did okay, but a bit of a flop. Uh, the Viggo Mortensen film, Hidalgo.

• 2:23:33Griffin Newman?

  That's a big flop.

• 2:23:34David Sims?

  Well, how much money do you think it made though?

• 2:23:37Griffin Newman?

  It cost over a hundred million dollars.

• 2:23:38David Sims?

  It was an expensive movie, but it made 70, which is like, you know, it's like.

• 2:23:42Speaker 03

  Big flop.

• 2:23:43David Sims?

  Uh, number nine of the box office is a film about a window. Oh, I'm seeing here that it's a secret window.

• 2:23:49Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Let me guess what this is. Uh, give me a hint. Who's the lead actor?

• 2:23:53David Sims?

  Johnny Depp.

• 2:23:53Griffin Newman?

  Fuck. Is it based on the work of a famous writer?

• 2:23:56David Sims?

  Probably.

• 2:23:59Griffin Newman?

  Stephen King. You're fucking up my bed.

• 2:24:00David Sims?

  I know. I forgot.

• 2:24:01Griffin Newman?

  It's secret window.

• 2:24:01David Sims?

  Number 10 of the box office, and people forget how early this.

• 2:24:04Griffin Newman?

  I'm counting that as a win that I got that one correct because I would have if David hadn't spoiled it.

• 2:24:07David Sims?

  I got you. Number 10 of the box office. People forget how early this film came out in the year. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

• 2:24:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:14David Sims?

  Uh, which of course goes on to win an Oscar. And number 11, opening just below all that, but a film we'll cover on the box office one day. The Ernest Dickerson film, Never Die Alone. It's like, what if DMX is the lead rather than like, kind of like the off ball.

• 2:24:27Griffin Newman?

  Well, but the movie opens with DMX's death and then it's David Arquette investigating the life of a guy via flashbacks.

• 2:24:33David Sims?

  So he, did he die alone?

• 2:24:35Griffin Newman?

  I think he did.

• 2:24:36David Sims?

  And David Arquette turns to the camera at the end. He's like, and that's why you should never die alone.

• 2:24:39Griffin Newman?

  It's an interesting movie. It's a pretty good film.

• 2:24:41David Sims?

  Cool.

• 2:24:41Griffin Newman?

  I remember going to see with my friend in high school and being like, oh, this is gonna be like exit wounds, like DMX, just like being a badass. And then it's kind of a character study.

• 2:24:49David Sims?

  Fascinating. All right. I'll check out Never Die Alone.

• 2:24:51Griffin Newman?

  Save it for the series.

• 2:24:53David Sims?

  Maybe I will. He actually has made quite a lot of movies. It might be tough.

• 2:24:56Griffin Newman?

  Ernest?

• 2:24:56David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:57Griffin Newman?

  I did a count recently. It's doable.

• 2:24:58David Sims?

  I think some of them are TV movies.

• 2:25:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I circle back. I always, I always check the viability of a candidate. Connor, do you want to leave us with any final Tom Hanks thoughts? Because I feel like we didn't discuss his performance enough. David was rushing us along.

• 2:25:11David Sims?

  We talked about Tom Hanks for a fucking hour.

• 2:25:14Griffin Newman?

  He seemed committed to the idea of this being the worst episode ever.

• 2:25:17David Sims?

  I want to go see the gay movie. I have to go see a gay movie.

• 2:25:20Griffin Newman?

  You have to go see a game?

• 2:25:21David Sims?

  Yeah, it's the one where they kiss. Mascolin O'Connor.

• 2:25:25Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:25:25David Sims?

  I think, is that who it is?

• 2:25:27Griffin Newman?

  I didn't realize there was an artificial shot clock on this movie. On this episode, yeah.

• 2:25:32Speaker 03

  Do we think that Pickles is the descendant of Ulysses from Inside Llewyn Davis?

• 2:25:37David Sims?

  He's talking about animals.

• 2:25:39Speaker 03

  David's leaving the room. He doesn't want, he says.

• 2:25:41Griffin Newman?

  David scratching his butt.

• 2:25:42Speaker 03

  He literally said.

• 2:25:42Griffin Newman?

  Slamming the bathroom door.

• 2:25:43Speaker 03

  He was off mic. He said, he's talking about animals as if that was somehow, did I miss a memo? We're not allowed to talk about.

• 2:25:49Griffin Newman?

  And I just want to make it clear that.

• 2:25:50Speaker 03

  No wonder.

• 2:25:51Griffin Newman?

  As he said this, as he muttered this, he stood up and scratched his butt.

• 2:25:55Speaker 03

  No wonder he got so, I didn't realize there was a no talking about animals rule in the podcast. I am so sorry that I violated that. Obviously the, the dog stuff, I really like.

• 2:26:04Griffin Newman?

  Connor, it's not your fault.

• 2:26:04Speaker 03

  I shouldn't have brought it. That's why you got so mad every time I mentioned that website.

• 2:26:08Griffin Newman?

  He sent us an inner office memo recently.

• 2:26:10Speaker 03

  No more animal talk.

• 2:26:11Griffin Newman?

  I am hereby forbidding animal talk from the podcast. Also no pop-ins.

• 2:26:15Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:26:15Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember no pop-ins? Do you get the joke I'm making?

• 2:26:17Speaker 03

  No pop-ins, Mary pop-ins?

• 2:26:19Griffin Newman?

  There was a, Steve Harvey sent out a memo to the entire staff of his talk show. And the first thing on it was no pop-ins. Do not let someone come visit my dressing room before a show. But he described it as no pop-ins.

• 2:26:33Speaker 03

  Sounds like something that Mr. Banks would have said.

• 2:26:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, absolutely. We gotta save that guy.

• 2:26:38David Sims?

  There's no like, no record of this waffle iron on the internet.

• 2:26:43Griffin Newman?

  I know, I had to do such deep Googling to find, I will screenshot.

• 2:26:47David Sims?

  He made it up.

• 2:26:47Griffin Newman?

  And we will post on social media, the AV club, uh, write up that still acknowledges it. But I searched really hard last night to find the proof because I was like, am I imagining this?

• 2:26:57Speaker 03

  We gotta get two of these.

• 2:27:00Griffin Newman?

  We gotta get to.

• 2:27:01Speaker 03

  I'll be so sad if we only ever find one for Griffin.

• 2:27:05Griffin Newman?

  But you know what?

• 2:27:05Speaker 03

  Just left with.

• 2:27:06David Sims?

  Connor, it was a delight having you.

• 2:27:07Griffin Newman?

  Connor triples is best. Maybe we should get three. No, triples is best.

• 2:27:10Speaker 03

  Oh, sorry. I accidentally felt like we were about to wrap up the episode.

• 2:27:13Griffin Newman?

  That's a weird energy.

• 2:27:14Speaker 03

  Weird feeling.

• 2:27:15Griffin Newman?

  Floating around here.

• 2:27:16Speaker 03

  Uh, I have so much more to say about the Ladykillers.

• 2:27:18Griffin Newman?

  David, what if we only talk about humans? Can we keep the episode going a little longer?

• 2:27:21David Sims?

  No, he needs to go to his screen.

• 2:27:23Speaker 04

  I'm going. We gotta keep going. It's fine.

• 2:27:25David Sims?

  You guys have fun. Connor, it really is so much fun having you on the show. I wanted to deliver you a true compliment. Sometimes I'm coming to this show, you know, uh, we got a podcast scheduled. Maybe we have some guests that I don't know. And there's the slight nerves of like, what's that gonna be like? Right? You coming on this show, I truly was like walking into the studio like, I'm gonna have a good time this morning.

• 2:27:44Speaker 03

  Did you have a good time?

• 2:27:44David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 2:27:45Griffin Newman?

  That's a lovely compliment. And he hasn't given a compliment in a decade.

• 2:27:48Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:27:48Griffin Newman?

  To anyone.

• 2:27:49David Sims?

  I keep them close to the chest.

• 2:27:50Speaker 03

  Can I?

• 2:27:51David Sims?

  I actually have a bunch of letters that on my death will be released that are compliments for every flowery compliments written in cursive.

• 2:27:57Speaker 03

  That's a nice thought.

• 2:27:58Griffin Newman?

  Ben, you're a good listener. It's like, that's the full letter? He waited until his death? But tell me.

• 2:28:03David Sims?

  He doesn't say that.

• 2:28:05Speaker 03

  Can I, can I put that compliment into my press quotes and say it's from the Atlantic?

• 2:28:09David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 2:28:10Speaker 03

  All right.

• 2:28:11David Sims?

  All right, I'll see you later.

• 2:28:12Speaker 03

  All right, see you later.

• 2:28:13David Sims?

  Truly lovely to talk to you. Too bad I don't like this movie. I wish I liked it a little more.

• 2:28:18Speaker 03

  That's a great wish. What if that came true? What a waste of a wish.

• 2:28:20David Sims?

  That seems like a gigantic waste of a wish.

• 2:28:23Griffin Newman?

  My, my stance is I, I give this film barely a passing grade, which means to me, they have never made a truly bad film.

• 2:28:29David Sims?

  But you've seen it four times.

• 2:28:29Griffin Newman?

  Their absolute worst movie. Yeah, I've seen it four times.

• 2:28:32Speaker 03

  I would love it if like the blue fairy from the Zemeckis version of Pinocchio came to you tonight and was like, your wish is granted. You now like the Ladykillers.

• 2:28:40David Sims?

  I'm like, great. Now they can serve a three and a half stars.

• 2:28:43Speaker 03

  No more wishes.

• 2:28:44Griffin Newman?

  My, my girlfriend and I were watching the Ealing movie last night and she was like, and everyone hates the Conan one. And I was like, yeah, let me just show you the opening scene of what Hanks does. So you can see how weird it is.

• 2:28:55David Sims?

  I wanna know what she thought.

• 2:28:56Griffin Newman?

  And I put it on and she goes like, this is funny. I like this. And I was like, right? I'm gonna take a shower, but if you wanna keep watching, feel free. I go take a shower. I come out. I'm like, what do you think? She was like, um.

• 2:29:09Griffin Newman?

  I like parts of it. And I was like, really, it's lost you. And she was like, I'll admit, after two minutes of you in the shower, I started checking my phone a lot. And I was so ready for her to back me up. And she immediately was like, I kind of get what other people are saying.

• 2:29:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would. It's not a movie I would ever fight with. If someone's like, I don't like it. It's not like I'm gonna convince you.

• 2:29:26Griffin Newman?

  No, I did not break up with my girlfriend on the spot over.

• 2:29:28Speaker 03

  That would be weird. But it, but I do find pleasure in the things that work in this movie.

• 2:29:32Griffin Newman?

  I do as well.

• 2:29:33Speaker 03

  Pleasure in so much stuff. And I love all you guys. And I'll see you on Thursday. All right.

• 2:29:36Griffin Newman?

  Did we get any of that on mic? We'll see. He was projecting.

• 2:29:39Speaker 03

  I like the way it feels when someone leaves a podcast, you hear them go away. It makes you feel like you're really in the space.

• 2:29:45Griffin Newman?

  I mean, now we can actually get to it.

• 2:29:46Speaker 03

  Every now and then, when you're in a movie theater, and they make a really bold choice about having a sound happen in the back corner of the theater. And it pulls you out of the movie in a way that you're like, that's a big choice.

• 2:29:57Griffin Newman?

  These are also, these are the reasons I love this show not being on video. Do you know what I'm saying? They're sort of like theater of the mind. And like, you heard David get further away from the mic, and then a door shut. The flush of the toilet.

• 2:30:09Speaker 04

  I'm kind of thinking maybe to mirror the movie, one of us should each get up and leave.

• 2:30:14Speaker 03

  Oh, it's like he went on the barge that him leaving there was the first one.

• 2:30:17Griffin Newman?

  Let me make sure my devices are synced in terms of Disney Emoji Blitz. Just if I'm gonna leave abruptly, I have to, yeah, I'm in a good place. I'm in a really good place, actually.

• 2:30:27Speaker 03

  I really feel like, um, and I hope that people have enjoyed, because I know that sometimes listeners, they're like, oh, well, I'll enjoy the movies that I like. And but it's actually sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes it's more fun to hear people talk about a movie where there's a little bit more, um, interesting stuff to chew on, because some Coen Brothers movies, like I texted you at one point, and I said, I don't want to do Lady Killers anymore.

• 2:30:51Griffin Newman?

  You really want to do Barton.

• 2:30:52Speaker 03

  Barton Fink, because Barton Fink is not just my favorite Coen Brothers movie. It's one of my top four favorite movies of all time.

• 2:30:58Griffin Newman?

  And we had literally like, just promised it to whites the day before you texted me that. And I was just like, he wants to do it for a lot of reasons. He feels really strongly. We feel really strongly. I'd still love you to do Lady.

• 2:31:09Speaker 03

  It makes, and it makes sense, uh, for me to do this one, given all the Dead Eyes crossover, and it's everything, but.

• 2:31:16Griffin Newman?

  And he's stealing your moves in this movie.

• 2:31:18Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, my dead eyes move. But like Barton, I just saw a quote about Barton Fink, uh, in that new John Goodman interview that's out, and where he specifically said he wishes he could go back and redo some things about Barton Fink. And I'm like,

• 2:31:31Griffin Newman?

  Crazy.

• 2:31:31Speaker 03

  What on earth could you be talking about?

• 2:31:34Griffin Newman?

  This is, look, we've been doing a lot of. Goodman this year, and he, I, I say this all the time. No actor of his stature is more publicly self-critical than Goodman. It is incredible how unsatisfied he seems to be with everything he's ever done. And I'm like, that's a guy who is so natural, makes it seem so effortless and always hits for me. And he's like, I watched Barton Fink and I like shudder.

• 2:32:01Speaker 03

  As, as much-

• 2:32:01Griffin Newman?

  I think I fucked it up.

• 2:32:03Speaker 03

  Oh, no, he's perfect. It's, I mean-

• 2:32:04Griffin Newman?

  It's crazy.

• 2:32:05Speaker 03

  I, there's one part of that movie that I don't like. You guess what it is?

• 2:32:11Griffin Newman?

  No, but I just had a big thought. Tell me what it is.

• 2:32:13Speaker 03

  There's one-

• 2:32:14Griffin Newman?

  Cause I need to hold on to the thought.

• 2:32:15Speaker 03

  There's one scene that I bump on. It just feels a little bit like, uh, always feels a little out of place to me. And it's the part where he's at the USO dance. And he's doing his like silly dance-

• 2:32:26Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:32:26Speaker 03

  Um, and yelling at people. And there's something about it tonally that feels like it's from another movie. Um, and it, every other scene in that movie feels perfect to me. And that one scene, I always, whenever I get to it, I'm always like, ah.

• 2:32:39Griffin Newman?

  I like the sailors fighting with him though. I know what you're saying about the dance itself.

• 2:32:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's something about it that seems a little bit too, like it, it looks like a scene that if you saw it as a deleted scene, you'd be like, I know why that didn't make it in. It kinda doesn't.

• 2:32:51Griffin Newman?

  I had a humongous thought just now.

• 2:32:53Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:32:55Griffin Newman?

  This all just came together for me and I can't believe David's not here to hear this. And I hope he never hears it. I wanna make it clear. I hope he never listens back to this.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  For everyone on earth but David.

• 2:33:04Griffin Newman?

  And if you're listening to the show, never, and you meet David, or you already know David and you see him again, never repeat this to him.

• 2:33:11Speaker 03

  But maybe say, I know something from the podcast that you don't know.

• 2:33:14Griffin Newman?

  Here's my big thought.

• 2:33:15Speaker 03

  And refuse to explain it.

• 2:33:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Would this movie work better with John Goodman in the Tom Hanks part?

• 2:33:21Speaker 03

  I was literally, that was my next point I was about to make, that-

• 2:33:24Griffin Newman?

  Hanks is kind of doing a Goodman performance in this, right? In terms of like the bigness and like-

• 2:33:31Speaker 03

  As much as I enjoy Hanks' performance in this, to imagine John Goodman in the role is to imagine an effortless seeming performance.

• 2:33:38Griffin Newman?

  And John Goodman's kinda better at like Charming Menace than anyone.

• 2:33:42Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:33:43Griffin Newman?

  Like he would know how to make this character scary and funny at the same time.

• 2:33:48Speaker 03

  I think you would be more genuinely scared for Irma P. Hall's safety if it was John Goodman.

• 2:33:52Griffin Newman?

  And I think when he dies at the end, you'd be like, yes, we did it. Like you'd feel a relief that he had been wiped off the board. Goodman in this would ki- Ben? If they don't kill the dog and it's Goodman and Goodman is doing foghorn leghorn.

• 2:34:07Speaker 04

  I would like to see that. I would like to see that. It's hard for me to say that I,

• 2:34:14Speaker 04

  I would maybe, maybe like it.

• 2:34:16Griffin Newman?

  Is there anything you liked about this movie or was it like a total?

• 2:34:19Speaker 03

  You liked it when it was over.

• 2:34:20Griffin Newman?

  You liked the tunneling.

• 2:34:21Speaker 03

  It's a big part of the movie.

• 2:34:22Griffin Newman?

  Huge part of the film.

• 2:34:22Speaker 04

  I like the tunneling.

• 2:34:23Griffin Newman?

  Zima with the cigarette? It's quite impressive. That's a good parlor trick.

• 2:34:28Speaker 03

  Were you amused when he was hiding under the bed and she was saying, what are you having tea under the bed for?

• 2:34:32Griffin Newman?

  It's a funny thing for someone to witness and imagine that this old lady has an imaginary friend named the professor who drinks tea.

• 2:34:41Speaker 03

  And to imagine that Tom Hanks hiding under the bed and getting caught under the bed would still work.

• 2:34:46Griffin Newman?

  Right. And that he's shushing her, right? And that in her mind, she's like, this is funny that he's playing this game of saying shush. That he thinks he can get away with it.

• 2:34:57Speaker 03

  It's a great scene in which each character is kind of correct about what's going on. Like they always have their own version of what's happening.

• 2:35:04Griffin Newman?

  And it leads to the ultimate victory of them not taking her credibly when she confesses and offers to give them back the money, which then leads to her giving all the money to Bob Jones University. And Connor, is there anything you want to say about Bob Jones University on the record that is your viewpoint and not ours?

• 2:35:22Speaker 03

  I don't know a lot about them. Everything that I've heard has been, uh, unimpressive to me. And if that's a crime, throw me in prison.

• 2:35:32Griffin Newman?

  Okay, Ben's gonna leave. That's getting a little too hot for him.

• 2:35:35Speaker 03

  Um, and of course I hope that my, my big, big hope always, and I tweet about it every few years or post about it on social media, that the one sequel the Coen brothers claim they're gonna make is Old Thing.

• 2:35:49Griffin Newman?

  Old Thing would rule. It's the best thing that they could reunite to make now that they're in this extended rum spring of working with their wives and not with each other.

• 2:35:57Speaker 03

  I, and I, and the last I heard of it was them saying that they thought that Trucco was aging better than they had hoped. They, he's, we're past the age, because they wanted to be Barton Fink in The Summer of Love. We're past the age chronologically.

• 2:36:11Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:36:12Speaker 03

  Where that should have happened. But I think they want, their idea of what John Trucco as an old man is, is still.

• 2:36:20Griffin Newman?

  The guy's aging great, but he doesn't look young.

• 2:36:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I think, you know, that's

• 2:36:25Griffin Newman?

  Time's caught up with them.

• 2:36:26Speaker 03

  Movie magic. I want to see what the Fink hairdo in the late 60s is.

• 2:36:30Griffin Newman?

  I can only imagine the Fink hairdo in the late 60s.

• 2:36:32Speaker 03

  I, um, you know, it basically, I just can't believe the Dial of Destiny beat them to it. We already got, we got old Indiana Jones before we got old Fink.

• 2:36:42Griffin Newman?

  Old Jones. Yeah.

• 2:36:43Speaker 03

  And I, and I don't even worry about like Barton Fink is a movie that just means so much to me. It captures so much. Um, it, it, it's a movie I think about constantly. And I'm not scared whether old Fink is good or bad because I'm not one of those people who thinks like, oh, it gets ruined. If you don't like, like I don't, I never think that way because I always.

• 2:37:03Griffin Newman?

  You never think that way.

• 2:37:04Speaker 03

  I never think that way. That's not how I think. That's not how I think, governor.

• 2:37:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:08Speaker 03

  Uh, it's not how I think. Um, I, I always prefer the notion of like, just try it. Try to do the thing.

• 2:37:16Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 2:37:16Speaker 03

  If you have the idea, if you have the impulse and if it doesn't work out.

• 2:37:20Griffin Newman?

  No slight off the original.

• 2:37:21Speaker 03

  It's the same way that like, that, that's ultimately, I know David really hated the argument of, uh, that we were, I don't remember exactly what he was objecting to, but, but when I, when I think about lady killers and what works about it and what doesn't, I always just land on the side of, I'm glad they tried this. Um, because.

• 2:37:40Griffin Newman?

  Especially now knowing it wasn't a dead end for them.

• 2:37:42Speaker 03

  Well, and especially now talking in terms of moose porting.

• 2:37:46Griffin Newman?

  Boy.

• 2:37:46Speaker 03

  Cause, cause.

• 2:37:46Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna introduce the concept of moose porting this late.

• 2:37:49Speaker 03

  Well, all right. Cause I haven't said this on the pod. I've only just said this to you in person, right?

• 2:37:53Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 2:37:55Speaker 03

  This is a great, great place to introduce it. So with the recent passing of Gene Hackman, I had never seen the movie, Welcome to Mooseport.

• 2:38:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. My, let me make clear as well. My father had prostate surgery on the day that Gene Hackman died. I was in the hospital waiting room, uh, for him to be released and you called me. And we, you pitched the idea of moose porting to me on the day of Gene Hackman's death. The body, I was going to say the body was still warm, but of course, when they discovered him, he had been dead for a couple of weeks.

• 2:38:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:27Griffin Newman?

  But this is the, the context in which I received the idea of moose porting for the first time is hospital waiting room.

• 2:38:33Speaker 03

  All right. And it's, it's as good a place as any to, to receive this idea. So if you're listening to this in a hospital waiting room, congratulations, you're pulling the same classic move that Griffin did. If you're near a hospital. We don't want people overcrowding the waiting rooms of hospitals, but if you're near a hospital, you see the waiting room is basically empty, maybe walk inside, listen to this part. Or, or

• 2:38:54Griffin Newman?

  Free wifi.

• 2:38:55Speaker 03

  Hit pause, go, uh, well, we also don't want people draining the wifi from

• 2:38:59Griffin Newman?

  That's true.

• 2:38:59Speaker 03

  People need it.

• 2:39:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:01Speaker 03

  But anyway.

• 2:39:01Griffin Newman?

  Only sign on if you need it.

• 2:39:03Speaker 03

  I had never seen Welcome to Mooseport. When it came out at the time, it was poorly received. I just didn't see it. I didn't see it, but I always thought I will see it eventually. And then eventually it became sort of canonized as Gene Hackman didn't make any more movies. People were like, I can't believe his last movie was Welcome to Mooseport. It kind of has this reputation of like,

• 2:39:19Griffin Newman?

  He lived for another 20 years and Welcome to Mooseport remained his final film.

• 2:39:23Speaker 03

  And so he died and I thought, you know what? I should see Welcome to Mooseport now. And it occurred to me that maybe I will enjoy it more because now I have a different context. Maybe I will appreciate now that there aren't going to be any new Gene Hackman performances. I will just appreciate aspects of it that I, that wouldn't have been, um, as enjoyable to me back when it originally came out. And I did watch it and there were a few things I really did enjoy. And I do think it was enhanced by just appreciating seeing him.

• 2:39:54Griffin Newman?

  Now by happenstance, the day you're pitching this to me, the day of Gene Hackman's death, I had watched Mooseport for the first time within the two weeks leading up to that. For whatever weird reason, I got on a run of watching Donald Petrie films. Donald Petrie directed Welcome to Mooseport. He directed the Macaulay Culkin Richie Rich. He directed the first Miss Congeniality.

• 2:40:16Speaker 03

  Wow, you filled up a whole dish.

• 2:40:17Griffin Newman?

  And there was another, there was another Petrie I watched. For some reason I got in a Petrie run and I was like,

• 2:40:23Speaker 03

  No, you were filling up your Petrie day.

• 2:40:24Griffin Newman?

  Right. I was like, Petrie's kind of an interesting journeyman comedy filmmaker who had some big hits and some big misses, but never really had a defined identity, right? And I was like, maybe it's time to watch Mooseport and I watched Mooseport. And you were pitching Mooseporting to me and I thought the framework you were pitching was specifically. Watching a movie that was disregarded at the time because of the context in which it was released, that now with some distance plays a lot better, removed from that burden, right? However, whatever was held against it at the time. And I said to you, and you said, I think it should be a thing that we start doing and calling moose porting, that moose porting should be the verb for going through that process of reclaiming a movie

• 2:41:09Griffin Newman?

  that was a victim of circumstance and timing. And I said to you, Connor, I have watched this film in the last two weeks, and it is not very good. I do not know how much of a bump you're gonna get from rewatching it in the wake of his passing. And you said, then maybe moose porting is just the term for filling in a gap in someone's filmography after they die. And since then, I feel like you have morphed it again to just be filling in a gap.

• 2:41:33Speaker 03

  Well, it's specifically a thing you, it doesn't like going back and seeing an old Orson Welles movie, something that came out before you were born. That's not moose porting. It's something that you could have gone to see at the time. You passed on it for whatever reason. You missed it. You maybe didn't even know it existed.

• 2:41:48Griffin Newman?

  And things kind of dismissed with a shrug. Lady Killers is the kind of movie that a lot of our listeners might be moose porting.

• 2:41:53Speaker 03

  A lot of them will be moose porting. I'll also say this, I want to clarify, it's not, I just said something and I realized, no, that's not moose porting. If you didn't know that a movie existed, that's not moose porting. It has to be something that you actively like knew it existed, didn't see it.

• 2:42:07Griffin Newman?

  Never bothered to watch it.

• 2:42:08Speaker 03

  And then you go back.

• 2:42:09Griffin Newman?

  But you were making an.

• 2:42:10Speaker 03

  I recently moose ported the movie It's Pat, and I realized that a lot of the, a lot of the, well, it's better than its reputation. Certainly, there's a lot to recommend. We don't have time for that right now.

• 2:42:21Griffin Newman?

  No, that's its own episode.

• 2:42:22Speaker 03

  But I realized there are a lot of SNL movies that I didn't see in the 90s.

• 2:42:26Griffin Newman?

  Oh, so you're doing a big SNL moose porting.

• 2:42:27Speaker 03

  I never saw Coneheads. I never saw Stuart Saves His Family.

• 2:42:29Griffin Newman?

  Coneheads I really like.

• 2:42:30Speaker 03

  I never saw Night at the Roxbury. I never saw Superstar. There's a lot of these movies.

• 2:42:33Griffin Newman?

  First half of Roxbury.

• 2:42:34Speaker 03

  Never saw The Ladies Man.

• 2:42:35Griffin Newman?

  On Fire. Yeah.

• 2:42:36Speaker 03

  Any of those movies, if I saw them now, they, let's say they're all C minus. There still might be a part of me now that is nostalgic for that era of comedy.

• 2:42:47Griffin Newman?

  We don't get that kind of character comedy. The last SNL movie was MacGruber, which is now 15 years old. And that was itself the first one in about a decade.

• 2:42:54Speaker 03

  If you go see a movie like that in the theater when it comes out, and you think it's 25% funny, you still feel like, ugh, 75% of that was not worth it. Now, in my dotage, as I, as I near my 50th birthday.

• 2:43:07Griffin Newman?

  Congratulations.

• 2:43:08Speaker 03

  It may, well, I haven't got through yet.

• 2:43:09Griffin Newman?

  Okay, humble brag.

• 2:43:11Speaker 03

  I think I might, those are examples of movies that are, they are on deck to be moose ported. Because I think at this age, there are certain things, even if I don't love them, even if I don't really like them, there'll be an, an, an element of appreciation.

• 2:43:26Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:43:26Speaker 03

  That wouldn't have been there in its original context.

• 2:43:28Griffin Newman?

  I feel that way basically now, whenever I watch any studio comedy, because we never get them anymore and we never get them theatrically. And anytime I watch a true, pure theatrical comedy starring real comedy stars, that has like, production value and any degree of craft behind it. I'm just like, this is automatically gaining another half star for me, just because we're living in a vacuum of these types of movies.

• 2:43:51Speaker 03

  And I would say in an era now where we are awaiting, will the Coen Brothers make another movie together? I think Lady Killer is, is an ideal moose port, because there's a limited number of Coen Brothers movies. If you liked the other ones and you haven't seen this one.

• 2:44:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:09Speaker 03

  You're also getting to see Tom Hanks and these actors in this era.

• 2:44:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:14Speaker 03

  And no matter what, they're not making 2004 era Tom Hanks movies anymore. They don't, he's older than that.

• 2:44:21Griffin Newman?

  This is a movie worth moose porting.

• 2:44:22Speaker 03

  Well, they did with Here. They did, that, they are kind of making.

• 2:44:25Griffin Newman?

  But I think even if you dislike this movie as much as Dave and Ben did, I think this is a film worth moose porting and hopefully moose porting within the context that we're helping to provide of how strange it was that everyone made this movie. And how it's at kind of a fulcrum point of career best work for everyone involved on either side of it. But it's interesting that they all met in this middle fallow, sort of, they met, they met briefly in a pit. And then all climbed out of it.

• 2:44:52Speaker 03

  And I also think, to be honest, the one thing that I would definitely say about this is, I don't think that, that you could accuse this movie of like, well, this is the Coen Brothers just phoning it in.

• 2:45:02Griffin Newman?

  It's, it is not a phone-in and it's not anonymous.

• 2:45:05Speaker 03

  It, it is, they are trying some things. Not all of those things work.

• 2:45:09Griffin Newman?

  But it's clearly built around things that they personally find funny and repeated themes and visual ideas that are throughout their entire filmography.

• 2:45:16Speaker 03

  And sometimes honestly, like, when you really like an artist, they're Their flawed deep cuts sometimes are more more interesting to revisit than some perfect movies that you There are some movies of theirs that I've probably seen so much.

• 2:45:30Griffin Newman?

  This is the value of moose boarding.

• 2:45:32Speaker 03

  Yes, this is and and moose boarding is also great as you get older because it is a form of time travel. It is a way of revisiting things that you you.

• 2:45:43Griffin Newman?

  It's like a butterfly effect. You watch it and you imagine what how would my life have been different if I had seen this in theaters at the time? Because you have to, you can only moose port a movie that you were aware of when it was.

• 2:45:53Speaker 03

  Charles Dickens. Charles Dickens knew about moose boarding in a way. He may have invented it with a Christmas.

• 2:45:58Griffin Newman?

  Christmas Carol is kind of the ultimate tale of moose port.

• 2:46:00Speaker 03

  Ultimately, it's like, you know, there's some stuff that you missed Ebenezer. And he's like, I'm gonna and he's like, I've seen some of this. Like, you haven't seen this?

• 2:46:06Griffin Newman?

  You haven't.

• 2:46:06Speaker 03

  And he's like, this feels this hits different for me now.

• 2:46:09Griffin Newman?

  Mooseport past, Mooseport yet to come.

• 2:46:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:12Griffin Newman?

  Connor.

• 2:46:12Speaker 03

  Spirit, please. No more moose boarding.

• 2:46:14Griffin Newman?

  Connor, I have a podiatrist appointment, but I'll, of course, just let you keep going.

• 2:46:20Speaker 03

  You. Oh, you're gonna go?

• 2:46:21Griffin Newman?

  Well, is there anything you want to plug?

• 2:46:22Speaker 03

  So I'm gonna.

• 2:46:22Griffin Newman?

  Okay, is there anything you want to plug?

• 2:46:24Speaker 03

  Oh, um, Connor Ratliff presents the acting class.

• 2:46:28Griffin Newman?

  Incredible show.

• 2:46:28Speaker 03

  On YouTube.

• 2:46:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:46:29Speaker 03

  Griffin has appeared on a couple of.

• 2:46:31Griffin Newman?

  Twice now.

• 2:46:32Speaker 03

  It's a one person improvised show. Occasionally I have a guest join me in my one person.

• 2:46:37Griffin Newman?

  The great Jeff Heller recently.

• 2:46:39Speaker 03

  It pretends to be an it's a one person improvised show that pretends to be an acting class.

• 2:46:43Griffin Newman?

  You do them live. You've been doing them in New York. You've been traveling a bit with them, but all of them go up on YouTube eventually.

• 2:46:48Speaker 03

  Most of them. And if you I what I would ask people is please subscribe to the YouTube channel. Because it is the thing that I want to.

• 2:46:59Speaker 03

  I'm gonna give it another year and see if I can build it.

• 2:47:01Griffin Newman?

  It's an incredible show. I cannot endorse it enough. Everyone I know who has seen it is blown away. It is the kind of thing that I I think only you can do and is a perfect vehicle for your unique mind.

• 2:47:12Speaker 03

  And I would like it to eventually be a thing because it's basically like a talk show where I make the guest improvise when I have a guest. And I really like the idea of it. I I I sort of want it to be like hot ones without the wings or the sauce. So just what's left?

• 2:47:30Griffin Newman?

  I will say also, by the time this episode comes out, it will be close-ish to us doing the first George Lucas performances, George Lucas Talk Show in a little while, near Comic Con, and I believe we have some New York show date set. We'll put the information in the episode description. Are you allowed to plug the Stitch comic?

• 2:47:51Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. James III and I-

• 2:47:53Griffin Newman?

  Past and future guest, friend of the show.

• 2:47:55Speaker 03

  Have written a series of eight issues of Stitch comics that Dynamite Comics is putting out. So we're writing official Disney comics, and basically, these are comics in which Jumba, he's in danger of losing membership in one of his, like, evil guilds, and that's where he has his dental plan. And so he has to come up with a series of inventions to try to, like, gain enough points so he doesn't lose membership in this evil organization.

• 2:48:23Griffin Newman?

  It's a really funny idea.

• 2:48:24Speaker 03

  And in each issue, he has a new invention that could be used for evil. Stitch usually does something that will then send things in a chaotic direction. And I think they're turning out really funny. I've seen the first-

• 2:48:35Griffin Newman?

  Showed me a couple pages. They were really funny.

• 2:48:37Speaker 03

  First two issues with the art back, and it's really good. So please, check those out. I think the first issue's out in early August, and then monthly for eight months, or whatever.

• 2:48:47Griffin Newman?

  Connie, thank you for being here. I love you.

• 2:48:48Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. I'm gonna wander away.

• 2:48:50Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Yeah, and I guess I'll just figure out how to end the episode.

• 2:48:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, garbage barge. Of course. No, thank you. Thank you for being here. Talk to you soon. I love you. I guess it's just me left alone with my lady killer's thoughts. It's like a six out of 10. I acknowledge there are a couple of major strikes against it. So it's bordering on being like a 5.9, but I give it the six. I prefer the sound of a B minus over a C plus, even though I guess both are passing grades. Just getting into C territory, even if it was a passing grade, always felt like, I can't, I can't hold my head high versus anything with a B. I'm like, look, it's more good than bad. Rotten Tomatoes, 60% positive reviews as the cutoff. I think this movie

• 2:49:42Griffin Newman?

  ended up at like 44. I think that's rude. It should have been 60, right there, 60. It should have been barely fresh. Or if it were rotten, it should have been like a 59. Should have been a pretty high rotten or very low fresh. It's not a great film. It's deeply flawed, but um, I think compared to a lot of the worst movies we've covered on this show, pretty good standing if this is your worst film, especially for how many films they've made. Tune in next week for No Country For Old Men, a movie I don't think we'll argue about a lot. It's pretty, pretty fucking great. Best Picture. It's not racist, which

• 2:50:23Griffin Newman?

  is definitely a feather in its cap. And as always, I think I'm just gonna go, uh, jump on this garbage barge, ride it all the way to my podiatrist appointment.

• 2:50:39Speaker 04

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas, and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ali Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check Special Features

• 2:51:21Speaker 04

  for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.