The Man Who Wasn't There with Jordan Hoffman

This one’s a real enigma - is The Man Who Wasn’t There a film about the alienation of a man who is deeply closeted and searching for connection in a tightly wound post-war world? Is it about a wife guy who doesn’t know how to express his feelings? Is it somehow about how Beethoven was not only deaf but suffered from horrific diarrhea at the end of his life? No? Well, that’s Jordan Hoffman’s theory! Join us for a very silly episode where we go long on Billy Bob, coin a new term for a Shalhoub appearance, and decide that all Austin-based podcasters are just Salacious B. Crumb. Read Jordan’s Article about the collapse of “The Messenger” https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2024/02/killing-the-messenger-my-final-days-working-at-a-disaster.html Subscribe to Jordan’s SubStack http://hoffstack.substack.com/ THE Billy Bob Interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qToHS07HoGw Watch the ITYSL Sketch with the great Biff Wiff https://vimeo.com/781708043 Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 03

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  He told them to look not at the podcast, but at the meaning of the podcast. And then he said the podcast had no meaning. Pretty good speech.

• 1:50Griffin Newman?

  I last night I was like, I almost have a Billy Bob and I lost it today.

• 1:54David Sims?

  Well, it's a, but he's, he's, he's in a specific.

• 1:57Griffin Newman?

  He's in a very specific mo. Yeah.

• 1:59David Sims?

  Yeah, he wasn't usually doing this. Usually he'd be talking about French fried potatoes.

• 2:04Griffin Newman?

  Right. Or as Andy Samberg likes to do his impression, talk about Kangol caps.

• 2:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 04

  He doesn't, he doesn't have much of a southern accent.

• 2:13Griffin Newman?

  In no, but there's still.

• 2:14David Sims?

  But there's the slightest.

• 2:15Griffin Newman?

  There's the little, I was like, I was getting, I was trying to pick up on which syllables he'll like, but I couldn't, I, I don't know.

• 2:23David Sims?

  Kind of throws it all away.

• 2:24Griffin Newman?

  I mean, look, this is, in many ways, this is the ultimate power of the movie. This guy's one of one. David, you love to mount the argument.

• 2:32David Sims?

  I'm gonna say it again.

• 2:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:34David Sims?

  From 1996 to about 2003 or four, I would say, there's the argument that he's Hollywood's best working actor.

• 2:43Griffin Newman?

  I, I think it's a fascinating argument.

• 2:45David Sims?

  I like to make it this case now more and more because it's like, now he's not. And he's so far from being thought of kind of as an actor. Like now he's just like public kook Billy Bob Thornton.

• 2:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but also the star of like America's biggest streaming show, Landman.

• 3:03David Sims?

  Oh, that is true that he's on Landman.

• 3:04Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing you forget is you're like, and he like fucking won awards for Goliath.

• 3:08David Sims?

  Right, Goliath.

• 3:08Griffin Newman?

  And he won awards for Fargo. Like he's like spent 10 years.

• 3:11David Sims?

  Great on Fargo.

• 3:12Griffin Newman?

  He's incredible. And you don't like that show and you have to concede. He is unbelievable on that.

• 3:16David Sims?

  Would never, would never not.

• 3:18Speaker 04

  Is Landman good?

• 3:21Griffin Newman?

  Many are arguing this. Many.

• 3:23Speaker 04

  I, I think with all those.

• 3:24Griffin Newman?

  Plus. It is. It's Taylor Sheridan.

• 3:26Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. All right.

• 3:27David Sims?

  With all those Taylor Sheridan shows, I feel like they're very enjoyable is sort of the ceiling. Like no one's out here being like, you know, this is the great American literature of our time. Because like Landman, you're always just getting served clips where like his daughter, there's the clip where his daughter is like, I only let him come on my tits.

• 3:43Speaker 04

  He's like, that's a good girl.

• 3:44David Sims?

  Like, we're not, you know, we're not that serious. And he's like, mm hmm. And everyone's just like, what the fuck? But it's huge.

• 3:51Griffin Newman?

  I mean, this is one of those things where it's like.

• 3:53David Sims?

  Wayman's oil?

• 3:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:55David Sims?

  And it's like Yellowstone is cat.

• 3:56Speaker 04

  You would think of the oil man.

• 3:58Griffin Newman?

  I know, but it's, well, you have to own the land that the oil is under.

• 4:02Speaker 04

  Do you or can you not?

• 4:03David Sims?

  Drainage.

• 4:04Speaker 04

  Steal it. I saw Flower Moon. You just steal it. You know, when Bill, I'm curious about this for, for Mr. Thornton. And that when, when I really decided this guy's a dick, and it's a pretty famous moment. It's when he was on that Canadian dudes.

• 4:20Griffin Newman?

  Jenga machine.

• 4:21David Sims?

  We've talked.

• 4:21Griffin Newman?

  Himself a deeply normal man.

• 4:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, he's, yeah, he got, he did, you know, I don't know what he did, but he.

• 4:26Griffin Newman?

  Many bad things.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  Allegedly did bad things, but he, that guy with the long last name, he, he was doing a normal interview with Billy Bob. And Billy Bob was acting like a real jackass because he was there to promote his record.

• 4:41David Sims?

  He only wanted to talk music. We have talked about this on this show.

• 4:44Griffin Newman?

  One of the 10 greatest moments in media.

• 4:46Speaker 04

  I want to know what, but here's the point. What year did that happen?

• 4:49David Sims?

  Uh, who?

• 4:51Speaker 04

  Can you Google that?

• 4:52David Sims?

  Kind of like 10 years ago.

• 4:53Griffin Newman?

  I'm going to say it's like 2012.

• 4:55David Sims?

  Uh, it was on QTV, of course.

• 4:58Speaker 04

  I, I remember, I remember thinking, wow, like, you know, I understand, like somebody who goes in to do, like, has someone who has had an interview celebs.

• 5:07David Sims?

  It was 2009.

• 5:09Griffin Newman?

  Jesus.

• 5:09David Sims?

  Yeah, that was a very long time.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  That was when he just totally, I just, I turned my back on him.

• 5:14Griffin Newman?

  But see.

• 5:14David Sims?

  Because America did. And yes, Griffin's right that yes, he'd be, he has become a streaming TV star.

• 5:20Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 5:20David Sims?

  But that is when he's kind of stops mattering.

• 5:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. He just became, he just announced the world behold, for I am a dick. He was just like.

• 5:27Griffin Newman?

  I feel like we're rushing through so many things. There's so much Billy Bob to talk about in this episode.

• 5:31David Sims?

  That's true, but we have done many Billy Bob talks.

• 5:35Griffin Newman?

  But this is one of.

• 5:36David Sims?

  Cause I guess he's always.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  BBTs, BBTs.

• 5:38Griffin Newman?

  This is one of the Billy Bob movies.

• 5:41David Sims?

  So yeah, but okay. No, but when.

• 5:42Griffin Newman?

  We've talked about him as a side dish. You want to see which times we've covered Billy Bob on the podcast?

• 5:47David Sims?

  Cause we, we, we covered The Gift, the film that he wrote, uh, which of course was, I think very obviously an homage to his mother, who was a psychic.

• 5:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 04

  I don't know anything about that movie. I know the Perry Farrell, The Gift, but I don't think that's this.

• 5:58Griffin Newman?

  It's a Sam Raimi picture. It's the film he makes right before Spider-Man. Kate Blanchett as a.

• 6:03David Sims?

  Southern Gothic.

• 6:04Griffin Newman?

  Southern Gothic, clairvoyant.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  Forgot about that.

• 6:06Griffin Newman?

  Thriller.

• 6:07David Sims?

  Well, we covered Simple Plan, which obviously he's fucking incredible.

• 6:10Griffin Newman?

  Incredible, man.

• 6:11Speaker 04

  Very good movie.

• 6:11Griffin Newman?

  Uh, we did Tombstone with the Doughboys.

• 6:14David Sims?

  Yeah, but he's, he's a small.

• 6:16Griffin Newman?

  Princess Mononoke, we discussed his. Infamous voiceover performance.

• 6:20David Sims?

  Very interesting casting in that project.

• 6:22Griffin Newman?

  I'm not a fan. In the American version, we did an Armageddon drive in.

• 6:26David Sims?

  No, but we, we one day will do a proper, you know.

• 6:30Griffin Newman?

  Yes, that's, by the way, that's a promise.

• 6:32David Sims?

  That's a promise and a threat.

• 6:33Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I of course constantly bring up that he is actually very good in Bandits.

• 6:38David Sims?

  Uh huh. But okay. So like the 96, my, my, so obviously it's like before 96, he's in good movies. Dead Man, he's incredible, obviously, and well, one false move, which he also wrote.

• 6:49Griffin Newman?

  What was that show called? Hearts of Fire?

• 6:51David Sims?

  Uh, it was called Hearts of Fire.

• 6:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes. He was on NBC sitcom.

• 6:55David Sims?

  Billy Bob Davis.

• 6:57Griffin Newman?

  He was kind of a James Carville, I think.

• 6:59David Sims?

  Yeah. It was like a John Ritter sitcom that was like a very, very lighthearted kind of Bill Clinton-y thing, you know, like.

• 7:06Griffin Newman?

  Who's the female lead of that?

• 7:07David Sims?

  Marky Post.

• 7:09Griffin Newman?

  Oh, absolutely. Great. R I P.

• 7:12David Sims?

  But like 96, obviously he wins the Sling Blade Oscar and is, becomes a somewhat inexplicable movie star, sort of. Sort of character actor slash lead of a Coen's movie, right?

• 7:24Griffin Newman?

  I was talking to my brother about this, where we were talking about the, the Tim Robbins fall off, right? Another man who's been the lead of a Coen Brothers movie.

• 7:32David Sims?

  And another man who definitely is like not prickly at all.

• 7:35Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, but don't you feel like at his peak, he was like one of the 10 biggest A-list movie stars? And I was like, he is a fascinating example in a way. I think Billy Bob was like this too.

• 7:45David Sims?

  To be clear, is who I'm saying no to.

• 7:46Griffin Newman?

  Right. Where he was just like, he was kind of the top of the B-list leading man pile, but also near the top of the A-list, second lead, third lead villain, one small scene, like, and Billy Bob has that thing too.

• 8:00David Sims?

  Major name. And Tim Robbins, I mean, Billy Bob is, is a good looking guy. And like, this is an example of a movie where you're like, yeah, God, what a face he's got.

• 8:07Griffin Newman?

  But like he was.

• 8:08David Sims?

  He's wearing the suits. He's very handsome. He wasn't, you know, traditionally handsome. Tim Robbins is pretty handsome.

• 8:13Griffin Newman?

  He is, but he's also a big galoot and he's got the baby face and all this stuff.

• 8:17David Sims?

  Tim Robbins was right. He was sort of what you described, but he also did art housey stuff.

• 8:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 8:22David Sims?

  And directed as well.

• 8:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes, he did.

• 8:24David Sims?

  But it's, so he had the kind of intellectual.

• 8:26Griffin Newman?

  But the argument is like, that's kind of what made them so valuable is that they were just like absolute Swiss army knives of like just constantly demand for something because there were so many different things they could deliver and they were not easily defined.

• 8:39David Sims?

  What's the podcast?

• 8:40Griffin Newman?

  The podcast is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 8:42David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 8:43Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they weren't there. Baby is a May series on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen, together and separately. Today we are talking about their 2001 film, a film that I think is kind of forgotten.

• 9:05David Sims?

  I think this film is slightly unheralded at this point. It's funny to think about that.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  It's the film that isn't there.

• 9:11David Sims?

  It's partly.

• 9:12Griffin Newman?

  A little bit.

• 9:13David Sims?

  Thank you very much. But it's partly, obviously, that they've made a lot of very, very celebrated films.

• 9:18Griffin Newman?

  They have.

• 9:19David Sims?

  So even a movie that is good and handsome like this one will be somewhat on the lower end.

• 9:25Griffin Newman?

  Look, not to keep building tension for the final episode rankings, but I'm just like, is this thing in my bottom five, even though I think it might be a masterpiece?

• 9:34David Sims?

  I don't think it's a masterpiece, but I do think it's good.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  I think it's terrific and it's also not in my, like, you know, it's not in my top tier, but it's really.

• 9:44Griffin Newman?

  Is only suffering from being in insane rarified company.

• 9:48Speaker 04

  If somebody else, if Billy Bob Thornton directed or Tim Robbins directed it, it would be their, their crowning jewel.

• 9:54David Sims?

  Well, well, indeed.

• 9:56Griffin Newman?

  But David, finish your thought here.

• 9:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:57David Sims?

  Well, our guest, of course, is.

• 9:59Griffin Newman?

  Jordan Hoffman from The Messenger. As you might remember in our last episode, Yensel.

• 10:05David Sims?

  From New York City.

• 10:06Griffin Newman?

  You talked about your exciting new job, an actual physical newspaper.

• 10:10Speaker 04

  Could I? Yeah. So this is kind of funny. First of all, the last.

• 10:12Griffin Newman?

  I'm only seeing you up for this because you said you wanted to discuss.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  Well, the last time I, first of all, the last time I was in this room was among the first times this room was used to record this podcast.

• 10:24Griffin Newman?

  I don't think that's true.

• 10:24Speaker 04

  It was one of the, it was one of the first. I'll tell you why I know.

• 10:27David Sims?

  For Yensel? For Yensel, it was on the early side.

• 10:29Speaker 04

  Because I watched, I, no, here's what happened during the opening bit before we recorded, when we were waiting for Griffin to show up.

• 10:37Griffin Newman?

  I don't know what you're talking.

• 10:37Speaker 04

  I watched David pay his first rent check.

• 10:41Griffin Newman?

  The podcaster who wasn't there. Okay.

• 10:43Speaker 04

  And he, and then he had to be like, oh, Christ, what's the rent on this place? And he had to like, look it up.

• 10:47David Sims?

  It may not have been the first.

• 10:48Speaker 04

  So would I know you were looking it up, but the point I wanted to make.

• 10:51Griffin Newman?

  Twenty two?

• 10:51Speaker 04

  It doesn't.

• 10:52David Sims?

  No, I think he's, he's, don't worry about Jordan.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Let me get to the point. There's a point.

• 10:57David Sims?

  I think it was 2023 and we moved in here in 22.

• 11:00Griffin Newman?

  I'm saying that series kicks off 2023 calendar year.

• 11:05David Sims?

  No, it kicks off the 24.

• 11:06Griffin Newman?

  So then it would have been fall 23. So I think we did move in here in 22, right? I think David just doesn't know.

• 11:12Speaker 04

  He doesn't know how much the rent costs?

• 11:13David Sims?

  I'm sorry. I, you know, yeah, I was.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  But my point is.

• 11:16Griffin Newman?

  He knows the rent is too damn high, but he doesn't.

• 11:17Speaker 04

  When I came here, I, you know, I tried to do it at home. I tried to do it at home in the morning, but sometimes the call of nature and I did have to go into your restroom.

• 11:27Griffin Newman?

  Morning constitution.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  I had to drop anchor in your restroom. And what happened? Well, you weren't here yet and we were waiting.

• 11:32Griffin Newman?

  And I went in there. This sounds impossible, but go on.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  And I was, I was just floored, absolutely floored by the amount. And I've recorded that. The amount of spare toilet paper in the restroom.

• 11:44Griffin Newman?

  And I dropped that I had just stocked up.

• 11:46Speaker 04

  Like $30.

• 11:47Griffin Newman?

  I bought like, right? Cause there was a, there was a Target promotion.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  Costco or something.

• 11:51Griffin Newman?

  I got like 372 packs of Ultra Gentle.

• 11:54Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:55Griffin Newman?

  You have to go Ultra Gentle.

• 11:56Speaker 04

  But my point is this, not to be disgusting or it's ideological, but I just went back to the restroom, only for a number one this time. And I went back in there and I was flabbergasted to how much of that toilet paper still remains.

• 12:08David Sims?

  I mean, I'm not shocked. You don't live here. Like, so like, it's not.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  It's like the Beatles. You hang out and help. You know, you hang out here all the time.

• 12:15Griffin Newman?

  To be clear, that's not like, oh, we still have a lot left from what I bought in 2023. Every time Target offers that deal, I jump on it.

• 12:24David Sims?

  Okay. So Billy Bob Thornton.

• 12:25Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no. So here's the, what I really, the real reason.

• 12:27Griffin Newman?

  David, how dare you?

• 12:28Speaker 04

  I mean, the real reason is me. The last time I was here, I was working at this other company.

• 12:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  And I was all like, hey, guys, guys, you know, I took the day off work. You gotta let me promote this new company.

• 12:37Griffin Newman?

  It's exciting. We're bringing the paper back. The literal paper.

• 12:40Speaker 04

  I'm working for a new news outlet. You gotta let me push it.

• 12:43Griffin Newman?

  Ink on the fingers.

• 12:43Speaker 04

  It'll make my bosses real happy. And you graciously allowed me to waste the listeners' time. And I talked about the glory of this new outlet. And then two weeks later, they folded.

• 12:53David Sims?

  Well, I feel like, didn't they have like one week where they were like, AI slop only? And then they were like, forget it. Just fucking turn it off.

• 13:00Griffin Newman?

  What if we print the slop?

• 13:02Speaker 04

  It was You've heard of clickbait. What of finger bait? It was a very, um, Print bait. It was a very, uh, public dissolution. I wrote an article about it. Um, the messenger was the name of the news outlet and I wrote something funny about how it was a disaster to work for. So now I'm here to promote a new, new outlet. And you know what? I like your boss a lot better this time. Oh, and David knows all about it. And now you're going to know about it to the listeners. It's a new Substack. Here we go. Run by me where I publish what I want to publish and it's all great. The only name that contrasts journalism. Maybe it's called a Hoff stack. H O F F stack. Yeah, this is Hoff to table journalism.

• 13:43David Sims?

  Jordan, I enjoy your Substack.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 13:46David Sims?

  Uh, which it has very much the right, all of Jordan's interests, but you gotta get back to reviewing New York City's libraries.

• 13:52Speaker 04

  This, here we go.

• 13:53David Sims?

  I know you.

• 13:54Speaker 04

  And it's promised. If you, if you go look at the Substack, it's promised.

• 13:57David Sims?

  You did a Sufjan Steven ass.

• 13:59Speaker 04

  City libraries as part of the sales pitch.

• 14:01David Sims?

  You know, Sufjan was like, oh, doing all 50 states, babe. And you were like, I'm doing every New York City public library. I'm going to get in there and review the location.

• 14:08Speaker 04

  And I did a few of these.

• 14:09David Sims?

  I know you moved to New Jersey.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Well, that's the, that's the punchline is I don't live in New York City anymore.

• 14:12David Sims?

  But I, you gotta catch that bus, baby.

• 14:15Speaker 04

  Also fucking NJ libraries. I was. Tell me about them. I know nothing.

• 14:18David Sims?

  Yeah, no, even less.

• 14:20Speaker 04

  The, the books are on the different shelves over there. No. So I started doing write-ups of the different branch libraries, you know, what, which one has a smelling problem, which one has a this, where, you know, where you could sleep. And then I moved. So I haven't been doing as much of that, but I'm doing my usual shtick, movies and life in general. And please, for the love of God, I would hope that if, if 2% of the people listening, well, let's bump it up. 12% of the people listening, uh, how many listeners? 16% of the people listening could, could get a monthly subscription. It would really help my bottom line. He's just asking for 19%. That's all he's asking for.

• 14:55David Sims?

  Subscribe to Jordan Hoff.

• 14:57Speaker 04

  It's not expensive. It's $5 a month. It's less than whatever you, you get rid, you're not watching Landman. You're not watching Landman.

• 15:03David Sims?

  Hoffstack.substack.com.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  Forget about your Paramount plus Landman. You gotta watch Landman. And look, we will settle for 22% of our listenership.

• 15:10David Sims?

  Jordan, you are a star. Trek fan, surely Paramount Plus is one of your.

• 15:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, why are you throwing them under the.

• 15:16Speaker 04

  That's a good point. That's a very good point.

• 15:18David Sims?

  You want to keep them around.

• 15:19Speaker 04

  How great is Strange New Worlds? It's so good. I love that.

• 15:21David Sims?

  I love that show too. I just, I have a lot of concerns about, you know, this new Starfleet Academy show.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm, I am suspicious. Starfleet Academy.

• 15:31Griffin Newman?

  This is the Giamatti, Holly Hunter. Tatiana?

• 15:34David Sims?

  Yeah, Tatiana, our friend of the show will be on it. It's just, you know, Star Trek Discovery.

• 15:39Speaker 04

  He's gonna, everything David's about to say, I agree.

• 15:41David Sims?

  Jordan sort of co-signs.

• 15:42Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 15:43Griffin Newman?

  David's playing with his baby Joey.

• 15:44David Sims?

  You know, Star Trek Discovery, when it was launched was like, hey, it's set sort of in the Kirk era, even though it's much, you know, glitzier, modern looking. Uh, you know, everyone was a little like, okay, you know, cause like, they've never really broached, like, what happened after like Star Trek Voyager, essentially, you know, like, we've never seen more of the sort of Star Trek timeline, right?

• 16:04Griffin Newman?

  Voyager is still the latest thing in the timeline.

• 16:07David Sims?

  I think Star Trek Nemesis technically was the last thing.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  Basically, the answer to your question is sure. Yeah, Voyager's the end.

• 16:14David Sims?

  You know, and obviously we had the Abrams movies, which were distinctly in their own timeline and all that stuff.

• 16:20Griffin Newman?

  The Kelvin timeline, of course.

• 16:21David Sims?

  And then as Star Trek Discovery was set in the Kirk era, and then the fucking ship zapped to the 30th century, or whatever the fuck it is, for the last sort of two and a half seasons of that show. And it was set in this kind of like far future where Starfleet is lost and they kind of rebuild it and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I sort of got it as like, okay, fine. You're setting it in your own little corner where you're not really going to fuck with it.

• 16:44Speaker 04

  Quadrant.

• 16:46David Sims?

  Indeed. And now the Starfleet Academy show is also set in the 30th century and is like following on from that. And I'm like, can we not just do Star Trek?

• 16:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're going.

• 16:57David Sims?

  And Strange New Worlds, of course, the show we like, is the one show where it's like, what if there was a spaceship and it went on missions that were kind of like episodes of the week? And the crew had interpersonal dynamics. Everyone's like, we love this. Do this. And they keep not doing it.

• 17:12Speaker 04

  It's pretty bad.

• 17:12Griffin Newman?

  This also remains my frustration with Star Wars, where I'm just like, why do we keep going back to the same corners specifically in between?

• 17:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 17:20Griffin Newman?

  Tight areas in between other.

• 17:24Speaker 04

  webs that they're like, you know, like a little shim.

• 17:28David Sims?

  There's two years here.

• 17:30Speaker 04

  There's a week.

• 17:31David Sims?

  A B Y. Like, what was going on there?

• 17:33Speaker 04

  There's an hour where Luke isn't accounted for.

• 17:36David Sims?

  And I know, just to acknowledge my listeners, I know Star Trek Picard was set after, you know, where I want it to be. But of course, that show was

• 17:46Speaker 04

  Terrible.

• 17:46David Sims?

  Was, and was very backward looking because it's about all the old guys going like, okay, one more. But, you know, like Jonathan Frakes getting on the treadmill. So he kind of be like, okay, you know, let's, let's put some green black back in the gray beard, whatever.

• 18:00Speaker 04

  It's, it was pretty rough.

• 18:02David Sims?

  And then the, the wonderful animated show.

• 18:04Speaker 04

  Very funny.

• 18:05David Sims?

  Was so good. And, and it was canon and it made an effort to be, but like, was obviously, you know,

• 18:09Speaker 04

  Silly, sure. But I've heard that Star Trek is now a priority. At the Skydown Paramount.

• 18:15David Sims?

  The lizard king, David Ellison. Will be creating a new Star Trek.

• 18:18Speaker 04

  They're just gonna wipe the slate clean. I think with, I, I, you know, I don't, I can't predict what the hell they're gonna do. But what, everything David just said is, was correct, which is a rarity, by the way. Everything he said.

• 18:30David Sims?

  And two Star Trek fans agreeing about, like, the direction of the show, also unusual.

• 18:36Speaker 04

  This new show, Star, they've been wanting to do a Starfleet Academy since the nineties, you know? And it's a great idea.

• 18:42Griffin Newman?

  Shatner was always pushing for it really hard, right? Didn't he, ahem, write those books about it?

• 18:47Speaker 04

  No, that was something, he wrote other books.

• 18:49David Sims?

  Tech War.

• 18:49Speaker 04

  He wrote, no, no, no, no. He wrote, he wrote, he wrote, he quote, quote, quote. With Judith and Garfield Reeves Stevens were the actual authors, but.

• 18:57Griffin Newman?

  Didn't he write books that were Kirk and Spock meeting for the first time?

• 19:00Speaker 04

  No, he wrote books where he dies in Star Trek Generations and then he comes back.

• 19:05Griffin Newman?

  I remember that when the JJ movie came out, Shatner kept saying, this was my idea and I kept pitching it to Paramount and I wanted to direct it.

• 19:14David Sims?

  Shatner saying stuff is.

• 19:16Griffin Newman?

  I wanted to direct prequel, young Spock and Kirk.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  Well, it's possible that that is, there is a new, I don't know. I never read his books, you know?

• 19:24David Sims?

  It's crazy how they might end up making another, like, new Star Trek movie.

• 19:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:28David Sims?

  That William Shatner will still be alive and not involved with, where he'll be like, I'm ready for my cameo. And they'll be like, oh, we're going through a tunnel.

• 19:38Speaker 04

  Anyway, the Starfleet Academy thing is upsetting because they're going in with one arm.

• 19:42David Sims?

  Cool.

• 19:42Speaker 04

  They're going in with one arm tie behind their back, though, because they're connecting it to Discovery, which they should. It's an original sin. They just shouldn't be doing it. But Paul Giamatti plays a new alien race that we've never seen.

• 19:53David Sims?

  Good.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Holly Hunter is the head. She's the headmistress. She's the, you know.

• 19:58David Sims?

  Great.

• 19:59Speaker 04

  The Dumbledore, if you will, and, um, and others. And then a bunch of hot, young kids running around.

• 20:05David Sims?

  Yeah, which like, that's fine.

• 20:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's gonna be great.

• 20:07David Sims?

  School stinks. That is always because like they're.

• 20:10Griffin Newman?

  Ben raises some interesting points.

• 20:12David Sims?

  For like forty, fifty years, people have been like, when do we do our Starfleet Academy show? And I do feel like it's always bumped up against like, doesn't school stink? Like, Yeah. You know, they have to be at a school. They can't like go on adventures.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  Space school. They're gonna like, they're gonna like, go with like, you know, into the quantum realm and.

• 20:30David Sims?

  Algebra.

• 20:30Speaker 04

  They could do space algebra.

• 20:31Griffin Newman?

  But it is telling that I feel like this.

• 20:33David Sims?

  Facebook report.

• 20:34Griffin Newman?

  The first JJ movie got through Starfleet Academy really fast.

• 20:37David Sims?

  But I mean, and yeah.

• 20:38Griffin Newman?

  It has three very fun scenes and it's like, that's all we need to do.

• 20:41Speaker 04

  Trying to make this like Riverdale. They're gonna be all stup in each other. Space stup.

• 20:44David Sims?

  They're gonna stup.

• 20:44Speaker 04

  Space stup. It's gonna be great. In zero gravity, could you imagine?

• 20:48David Sims?

  Space wedgie. That could be fun.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  Hot, warm, space swirly.

• 20:54David Sims?

  I just want another show about a, you know, ship that.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  Well, I think, God bless Strange New Worlds, you know, so listen.

• 21:00David Sims?

  It's, you know, it's doomed. It's, it's, they're wrapping it up.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  Now, they have this season and the next season and, but you know, Dianu, I mean, we got a lot of.

• 21:08Griffin Newman?

  I agree with that. Didn't Sector 31 put some new kind of blood in the veins?

• 21:11David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 21:12Griffin Newman?

  Didn't that get people rearing for more?

• 21:14Speaker 04

  What is the worst thing in Star, the worst thing, the worst show, movie? What is the worst Star Wars?

• 21:19Griffin Newman?

  You can ask me. I'm, I'm, I'm a bit of a neophyte in this area.

• 21:23David Sims?

  In Star Wars.

• 21:24Griffin Newman?

  Oh, in Star Wars?

• 21:25David Sims?

  He's trying to say that Section 31 might be the single one.

• 21:28Speaker 04

  What is the worst element of Star Wars?

• 21:29Griffin Newman?

  It's a good question. I mean, I largely tapped out of the last couple of years.

• 21:33David Sims?

  I still think the worst thing is Episode IX, which you liked, of course, and you were raving as we. Episode IX, I remember. We were walking out of that screening and you were like, it had spaceships in it, dude.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Episode IX is better than Episode II. Sure.

• 21:47David Sims?

  No, it's not.

• 21:48Griffin Newman?

  Well, no, wait a second. No, I fucking fundamentally disagree with that.

• 21:52Speaker 04

  What's wrong with episode nine? They running around?

• 21:54Griffin Newman?

  Everything.

• 21:54David Sims?

  That's exactly what I'm talking about.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  They go with like quicksand Chewbacca shows up, land on, you know what?

• 21:59David Sims?

  All of those things do happen.

• 22:01Speaker 04

  You know what I like?

• 22:02Griffin Newman?

  If you like those things, by the way, I can point to some other movies you might really like.

• 22:05Speaker 04

  People mock this.

• 22:06Griffin Newman?

  I got a couple of movies with sand and Chewbacca that I strongly recommend.

• 22:10Speaker 04

  There's a moment. There's a moment in, in the, the ninth Star Wars, um, when the, um, stormtrooper flies and they go, they fly now. And that's become a meme is like bad. When the stormtrooper flew, I was like, holy shit, that's a flying stormtrooper. This is cool. I was in the moment. I thought it was great.

• 22:29Griffin Newman?

  I'm, I'm moderately surprised that you're.

• 22:31David Sims?

  The first episode.

• 22:32Griffin Newman?

  This much of a nine defender.

• 22:34Speaker 04

  I mean, I was like, it's fine. I've watched it one time.

• 22:36Griffin Newman?

  But I am extraordinarily surprised you're not an episode two defender. Episode two is full of fucking Hoffman coded shit.

• 22:43Speaker 04

  Well, there's which like, well, there's the.

• 22:45David Sims?

  It's got the diner with the.

• 22:47Speaker 04

  The diner.

• 22:47Griffin Newman?

  Cause he's got a 50 space diner. He's in his own war movie investigating a rain planet with a clone.

• 22:54Speaker 04

  I like, you know, maybe I meant to say episode three.

• 22:56David Sims?

  It's fine.

• 22:57Speaker 04

  That one's very boring. Number two is fine. And also Timothy, uh, Timothy, uh,

• 23:01Griffin Newman?

  Timothy Shalton.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Natalie Portman, she's wearing a.

• 23:04David Sims?

  I'm sorry, Timothy went to Natalie Portman.

• 23:07Speaker 04

  You know, they're, they're kind of similar.

• 23:10David Sims?

  Timothy Portman, whatever.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  They have a similar vibe. No, at first she's wearing an outfit and then the outfit gets ripped in half.

• 23:17Griffin Newman?

  That is true.

• 23:17David Sims?

  For the first time in Hollywood.

• 23:19Griffin Newman?

  Arena battle. How is that not Hoffmann shit?

• 23:20Speaker 04

  No, that's good. I meant to say episode three, the third, the, the third prequel. I've never, I fall asleep every time. It's very boring.

• 23:27David Sims?

  The whole thing with you, right? Is that Star Wars, as much as you're a nerd who likes space, like it was never your, your primary thing.

• 23:34Speaker 04

  I, listen, I remember the first time I ever saw the first Star Wars. It was thrilling. I, I love Star Wars.

• 23:41David Sims?

  Sand.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  Jabba the Hutt, Jabba the Hutt, of course, obviously I connected with.

• 23:45Griffin Newman?

  First one.

• 23:46David Sims?

  I know. I just remember, uh, that Jordan and I both like Jabba.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  I love Jabba. And I love all the jizz. I love all the jizz music. I love Jabba's palace song.

• 23:55Griffin Newman?

  You've never wailed though, right? You just appreciate.

• 23:57Speaker 04

  No, I was not a jizz wailer. Not a jizz wailer, but I'm just, I, I just enjoyed a nice shot of jizz and I.

• 24:05Griffin Newman?

  Enjoy a nice shot of Jizz at night before bed. You pour yourself three fingers of whiskey and a shot of Jizz.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  It's very healthy, but the, the.

• 24:14Griffin Newman?

  David's doing the motion, which by the way, I'm now realizing does kind of look like something else.

• 24:19Speaker 04

  I think though, that the Jabba's palace scene of, of the third Star Wars movie is just, when I saw that, when I was.

• 24:26David Sims?

  It's outrageous, good shit.

• 24:27Speaker 04

  It's so good. So I love it.

• 24:29Griffin Newman?

  I have long contended. That is my favorite thing in all of Star Wars.

• 24:32Speaker 04

  Is Jabba.

• 24:33Griffin Newman?

  The Jabba palace sequence, the first 20, 30 minutes of Return of the Jedi, I would live in that. That is my favorite shit in the universe.

• 24:42Speaker 04

  I wouldn't want to live there. It's so horrifying.

• 24:43Griffin Newman?

  I want to live in the experience of watching it.

• 24:45David Sims?

  Come on, let's go there.

• 24:46Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to rent a room in the back.

• 24:48Speaker 04

  It's terrible. The dancing girl goes and gets eaten by the monster in the basement. And then he eats a living frog and all that.

• 24:57David Sims?

  He's always eating a living frog.

• 24:58Speaker 04

  Salacious.

• 24:58David Sims?

  Salacious Crumb. Now, Salacious Crumb is a truth teller. He pushes boundaries. Sometimes he misses.

• 25:03Griffin Newman?

  Did you see him on Kill Tony recently?

• 25:05David Sims?

  There's just so many like dumb comedy podcasting jokes you could make about Salacious Crumb. Like most Austin based comedy podcasters basically are Salacious Crumb.

• 25:17Griffin Newman?

  Did you see Salacious Crumb went on Breakfast Club and talked about why he doesn't eat pussy? I was going to keep making jokes of Salacious Crumb doing other podcasts.

• 25:24Speaker 04

  He is salacious.

• 25:25David Sims?

  Billy Bob Thornton.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  Billy Bob.

• 25:27David Sims?

  The 96.

• 25:28Griffin Newman?

  Billy Bob Thornton.

• 25:29David Sims?

  In Sling Blade, he does, wins for Sling Blade 96. And so he starts to show up and stuff.

• 25:33Griffin Newman?

  And by the way, he's got like, you got fucking Poppy in Tombstone. You have one false move, which he obviously wrote.

• 25:39David Sims?

  Like I said, he's been around.

• 25:40Griffin Newman?

  Proposal. He does the Sling Blade short film, but then a dead man, but then obviously yes. 96 is when we're.

• 25:45David Sims?

  I'm doing this.

• 25:45Griffin Newman?

  Do this.

• 25:46David Sims?

  97, he's got stuff that he clearly made pre Oscar. He's in The Apostle. He's good. He's in U-turn.

• 25:52Griffin Newman?

  I love The Apostle.

• 25:53David Sims?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 25:54Griffin Newman?

  That's a great, 98, you're right. It's the first year he's booking with the Oscar in hand.

• 25:58David Sims?

  Simple Plan, which he gets another nomination for. He's wonderful. Armageddon, where he's German, of course, down in the space base. Telling everyone where to point their drills.

• 26:08Griffin Newman?

  Right. And he was nominated for four Oscars for that. He was nominated in all four acting categories.

• 26:12David Sims?

  He's fucking good in that movie. Uh, he's in the Stephen Gyllenhaal film Homegrown about marijuana.

• 26:17Griffin Newman?

  You love. I could see that being.

• 26:19David Sims?

  Oh, no, no.

• 26:19Griffin Newman?

  No, a Hoffman.

• 26:21David Sims?

  I don't think Jordan Cena, it's such a forgotten movie.

• 26:23Speaker 04

  I forgot.

• 26:24David Sims?

  And he's fantastic, of course, as the James Carville of primary colors.

• 26:29Speaker 04

  Yes, that's good, too.

• 26:30David Sims?

  Ninety nine, of course, one of the most forgotten movies ever made. Air traffic controller, sex comedy, Pushington with Thornton, Cusack, Blanchard, Jolie, like just the most insane.

• 26:43Griffin Newman?

  It was a sex comedy movie that turned into a sex comedy playing out in our tabloids. As he started pushing tin with fucking Jolie.

• 26:52David Sims?

  Who directed? Mike Newell directed it. I think it was his follow up to Donnie Brasco.

• 26:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, weird movie. I saw that.

• 26:59David Sims?

  Pushing Tin, it's not good.

• 27:00Speaker 04

  Saw it in the theaters and thought it was okay.

• 27:02David Sims?

  It's just one of those things where everyone was like, everyone wants to learn the lives and it's like, no, no one actually cares.

• 27:07Griffin Newman?

  It's the only movie that the Charles brothers made, right? Who did Cheers and Taxi?

• 27:13David Sims?

  They wrote it, yes.

• 27:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:14David Sims?

  And in last Charles, right?

• 27:16Griffin Newman?

  And Mike Newell directed it?

• 27:17David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 04

  Oh, that's, and they, that's kind of dark because didn't then one of them die in nine 11?

• 27:21David Sims?

  I thought it was the other Frasier guy who died.

• 27:24Griffin Newman?

  I think so.

• 27:25Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 27:25David Sims?

  Wasn't it David Angel who died?

• 27:27Griffin Newman?

  That sounds correct.

• 27:28David Sims?

  Yeah, they're both still alive.

• 27:29Speaker 04

  It's about near plane crashes.

• 27:31David Sims?

  Well, that's true, but neither of them died.

• 27:32Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 27:33David Sims?

  I will just point this out.

• 27:33Griffin Newman?

  But just another thing that, you know, any of our younger listeners might not understand that's important context for this movie. For the first couple of years of the 2000s, the world was obsessed with Billy Bob Thornton's sex life.

• 27:46David Sims?

  That is true.

• 27:47Speaker 04

  I thought you were going to say nine 11 because I actually do have some nine 11 connections.

• 27:50David Sims?

  Noting 98, he, he gave good performances in movies. Ninety nine, less so, but he does at least become famous boyfriend to Angelina Jolie.

• 27:59Griffin Newman?

  Right. And there's like two years of them showing up on a red carpet saying weird shit and being like, we can't stop fucking vampires.

• 28:05Speaker 04

  Didn't they keep each other's blood in a vial around their neck?

• 28:07Griffin Newman?

  Just a drop, just a drop.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Would you keep Angelina Jolie's blood in a vial around your neck?

• 28:11David Sims?

  Whatever 1999 Angelina Jolie told me to do.

• 28:16David Sims?

  So he's just going, uh, 2000, he wrote the gift and of course, all the pretty horses kind of blows up in his face. Uh,

• 28:25Speaker 04

  With Scarlett Johansson, right?

• 28:27David Sims?

  No.

• 28:28Speaker 04

  She's not.

• 28:29Griffin Newman?

  No, that's a horse whisperer.

• 28:30Speaker 04

  Oh, I got my horses confused. Sorry.

• 28:32David Sims?

  Um, so that's a bit of a rocky year, but in 2001, this year, he's fantastic in Monsters Ball. He's fantastic in this film. He's fantastic, as Griffin has noted many times, in Barry Levinson's Bandit.

• 28:43Griffin Newman?

  One must acknowledge.

• 28:44David Sims?

  He does also write and direct the film Daddy and Them, which I've never seen, which he's also the star of.

• 28:49Griffin Newman?

  Jim Varney's last film.

• 28:51David Sims?

  Texas comedy?

• 28:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 28:53David Sims?

  Uh, and then it's like 2002, he didn't really do anything, waking up in Reno. Yeah. But 2003, he had Bad Santa.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:01David Sims?

  Which was.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  That movie's great.

• 29:02David Sims?

  Right. Which is another one of those things where he's like, where it's like, fuck, he's making this work, right? You know, like, and it was a hit.

• 29:08Griffin Newman?

  And suddenly you're like, is this guy like mainstream comedy star?

• 29:12David Sims?

  Kind of do whatever he wants, even though he looks right. Like, he looks and he's.

• 29:16Griffin Newman?

  But like, I've never seen Levity, you're like, Bad Santa Love actually intolerable cruelty, right? And tolerable cruelty love actually are both kind of extended cameos.

• 29:23David Sims?

  But he kind of pops in both cameos.

• 29:25Griffin Newman?

  Very funny in both. And you're like, has he unlocked a new chamber? Is there a new era? And then like Friday Night Lights is like.

• 29:32David Sims?

  He's fantastic in Friday Night.

• 29:34Griffin Newman?

  Agreed.

• 29:35David Sims?

  And then.

• 29:36Griffin Newman?

  The Alamo I've never seen, but everyone always says that he is the one good part of that.

• 29:40David Sims?

  Played Davy Crockett in the Alamo.

• 29:42Griffin Newman?

  And he plays him as a coward.

• 29:43David Sims?

  Uh, and then 2005, he had Ice Harvest, a movie you stick up for.

• 29:48Griffin Newman?

  I stick up for really hard.

• 29:49David Sims?

  The, uh, Harold Ramus movie.

• 29:50Griffin Newman?

  Harold Ramus, Robert Benton's remake.

• 29:52David Sims?

  Yeah. And this is where it starts to just go away.

• 29:55Griffin Newman?

  Well.

• 29:55David Sims?

  But there was just a few years there where it was like, what can this guy do?

• 29:58Griffin Newman?

  But that run of just being like, we gotta replicate the Bad Santa magic. People love Billy Bob Thornton being an asshole.

• 30:05Speaker 04

  I just remember him is a little bit coarse when he's like, she ain't get a shit ride for a week.

• 30:10David Sims?

  That's the best.

• 30:10Speaker 04

  I mean, it's just, just a little bit of a shocking joke.

• 30:13Griffin Newman?

  But it's, uh, Bad News Bears, School for Scoundrels, Mr. Woodcock.

• 30:17Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is where.

• 30:19David Sims?

  This is around the time when the he starts the Box Masters. Let's not forget.

• 30:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes, the Box Masters was his group that was he.

• 30:29Speaker 04

  Which caused the fuss in Canada with, with, yeah.

• 30:31Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  They've released 17 albums.

• 30:34David Sims?

  I know. I was gonna share that. Isn't that fucking crazy?

• 30:37Speaker 04

  Well, did he have like seventeen?

• 30:39Griffin Newman?

  In that interview, that's part of his thing is like, we released four albums this year. Why are we talking about my movie work?

• 30:46David Sims?

  He should have said like, well, maybe stop releasing so many albums per year.

• 30:51Griffin Newman?

  Interview just to explain.

• 30:52David Sims?

  Yeah, I talked about it on this show.

• 30:54Griffin Newman?

  If not talking about it here, then when?

• 30:56David Sims?

  We already did.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  Primo Levy over here.

• 30:59Griffin Newman?

  You can't admit everyone's listened to every album.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  Are you just doing the bit where now you guys are replicating the interview?

• 31:04Griffin Newman?

  Probably.

• 31:05Speaker 04

  The interview is great because the guy, I can't say his name, Gian.

• 31:08Griffin Newman?

  Gian Gomashi.

• 31:09Speaker 04

  Him, he, he stands up for himself so well that he's like, look.

• 31:14Griffin Newman?

  Can I explain this quickly before you say this?

• 31:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:17David Sims?

  I really am putting a one minute time limit on this.

• 31:19Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 31:20David Sims?

  Do it. I really am.

• 31:21Griffin Newman?

  Billy Bob Thorne went on with his band and in the introduction, Gian Gomashi goes like, Box, Box Masters have done this in 14 albums in the last two years. Da, da, da, da, da.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  Wasn't it a Canadian show?

• 31:34Griffin Newman?

  Ben, you're coming in my tribe. That doesn't count.

• 31:39Griffin Newman?

  And then he's like, and you might recognize their bassist for his film work, Billy Bob Thorne. And then he starts exclusively asking him questions about the album and the music. And the other bandmates respond and Billy Bob Thornton every time says like, when I was a kid, I liked to paint models of monsters. And he's like, oh, okay. Then he'll like circle around and ask another question. I'll be like, so tell me about the writing on this album. And he's like, sometimes I would go box car racing. And then like 40 minutes in, he's like, what's going on here?

• 32:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. So finally Gian is like,

• 32:14Griffin Newman?

  And he said, well, apparently you're treating my music like it's a hobby. So why shouldn't I fucking talk about my other hobbies? And he's like, what did I do to anger you? And he says, you were explicitly told not to talk about my acting work. And he was like, I think it's relevant in the context of introduction. I have no questions planned.

• 32:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:32Griffin Newman?

  And Billy Bob Thornton just had flipped out.

• 32:34Speaker 04

  He's such a dick and the other guys in the band were embarrassed. Yeah. He's talking about like famous and you can watch the video of the other guys in the band. Go like, why are we with this ass? Oh yeah. Cause he's famous. Cause by the way, nobody on planet earth would ever listen to a damn thing this guy recorded.

• 32:48Griffin Newman?

  Says, but he's just like, what do you ask Tom Petty?

• 32:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:50Griffin Newman?

  If he takes the music seriously.

• 32:52David Sims?

  The reason I hate talking about this.

• 32:54Speaker 04

  That's the best part. Because if Tom Petty wrote or directed a movie, you'd for sure ask him about damn the torpedoes.

• 33:00Griffin Newman?

  And by the way, the Santa sketch from I think you should leave is a direct parody of that.

• 33:05David Sims?

  I love how you said that. Like it's like, oh, of course I think you should leave, which is very relevant to the man who wasn't there.

• 33:09Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 33:09David Sims?

  No, the reason I hate talking about this is that Gian Gomeshi sucks.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  He's a racist.

• 33:13David Sims?

  And Billy Bob Thornton wins. And so it's like, he wins.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  In the long run.

• 33:17David Sims?

  Fuck that guy. Gian Gomeshi, who sucks. He's on the record.

• 33:21Griffin Newman?

  David, how dare you not let me lay the table for this, for you to make this point? I just alley oop'd you.

• 33:27David Sims?

  I hate that guy.

• 33:28Griffin Newman?

  Great. I've allowed you to make this point now.

• 33:30David Sims?

  And we have now twice, if not more on this podcast been like, he really got fucked over by Billy Bob Thornton. And I'm like, good. He should get fucked over again by him. Now I'd pay 30 bucks to watch it.

• 33:43Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 33:44David Sims?

  Like not 50.

• 33:44Griffin Newman?

  Like on a POV.

• 33:45David Sims?

  Like a PPV.

• 33:46Speaker 04

  Well, a Paramount plus.

• 33:47David Sims?

  Billy Bob Thornton is rude and kind of gnarly in a microphone.

• 33:52Griffin Newman?

  What if Gian Gomeshi starts an OnlyFans?

• 33:55David Sims?

  No.

• 33:55Griffin Newman?

  Or artistically respectable people.

• 33:57David Sims?

  No.

• 33:58Griffin Newman?

  Cut him down to size.

• 33:59David Sims?

  No, I will not contribute money to him.

• 34:01Speaker 04

  I think now it's true. We've talked about this.

• 34:03David Sims?

  Enough.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  Cause you know what? You know what's great? Great.

• 34:08David Sims?

  What's great?

• 34:08Speaker 04

  The man who wasn't there.

• 34:14Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 34:15David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 34:16Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 34:23David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 34:24Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 34:32David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. They've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 34:38Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:38David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 34:45Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 34:48David Sims?

  No.

• 34:49Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 34:50David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to leesa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code BLANKCHECK. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com, promo code BLANKCHECK for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code BLANKCHECK.

• 35:36Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 35:36David Sims?

  Yes?

• 35:37Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 35:58David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 36:17Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 36:33David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to The Darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 37:08Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 37:08David Sims?

  Yes?

• 37:09Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 37:13David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 37:18Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 37:20David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash, just in time for the holidays.

• 37:27Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 37:36David Sims?

  Uh, best stocking stuffers, maybe. The sickest luxury items.

• 37:40Griffin Newman?

  Cookware to kicks, toys to high-tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay? That's shop.com. You can just go, click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot. From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals, and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 38:29David Sims?

  In 2001, the Coen Brothers released their ninth film, The Man Who Wasn't There, which is of course the 18th film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

• 38:39David Sims?

  But-

• 38:40Griffin Newman?

  Is The Man Who Wasn't There ever gonna reappear? Or is he just sitting on the bench with fucking Star Fox and-

• 38:49David Sims?

  Could put some hair in the dirt. When the Coen Brothers are making The Hot Sucker Proxy, this is the whole thing with the Coen Brothers. Is anytime they make a new movie, everyone's like, oh, what'd you think of it? They always have their story.

• 38:59Griffin Newman?

  And this one has one of the biggest stories. There was an old timey 50s barber shop poster with all the model kids-

• 39:05David Sims?

  They said 1940s style haircuts.

• 39:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 39:08David Sims?

  And they said, we started to think about the guy who did all these haircuts. And we wrote this character of a barber. And it all came out of these pictures of haircuts.

• 39:17Griffin Newman?

  This movie feels like a bit that then starts being taken seriously, right?

• 39:22David Sims?

  It's a little bit their thing sometimes.

• 39:23Griffin Newman?

  Totally, but it feels like an improv run of like, who's the funniest guy to be doing these haircuts? And you're like, what if it's like a Billy Bob Thornton type who talks as if he's in an noir?

• 39:33David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 39:33Griffin Newman?

  Right? The stoic cigarette smoking sociopath.

• 39:38David Sims?

  And really like Albert Camus character, but just like in the 50s. And but you know, the working title of this movie was The Barber, which is cool if you know it and watch it again, because they say The Barber like 25 times in this movie. Is that a better title? I do like the title and I do think it's appropriate. Like it makes sense for the movie. I think that might be kind of a cool title.

• 40:01Griffin Newman?

  I think Man Who Wasn't There is a better title for this movie.

• 40:04David Sims?

  The Barber sounds like a movie now that stars a 50 something comedian who is doing Kung Fu. You know, like a Bob Odenkirk decided to do an action movie. So like, he was just a barber and then he does like barber.

• 40:15Griffin Newman?

  No, but you and I both know if that movie was made tomorrow, it wouldn't star Bob Odenkirk. It'd star John Cena and the premise would be this guy is an everyday barber. Can you believe he secretly has fighting skills?

• 40:27David Sims?

  John Cena, who I think can be very funny, but like his arms are like this because his pecs are so much like he's-

• 40:34Griffin Newman?

  If more of these were Odenkirk's, we'd be fine.

• 40:37David Sims?

  I know.

• 40:37Griffin Newman?

  You know, like my problem is these movies where you're just like-

• 40:41David Sims?

  Yeah, Mark Wahlberg's gonna play a guy. I'm like, let me guess. He's a sleeper agent.

• 40:45Griffin Newman?

  No, no, no, he's a suburban. No, he has a kid. You will not believe that this guy can hold a gun.

• 40:51Speaker 04

  The union, did you see the union where he was a union delegate?

• 40:54David Sims?

  Is that Mark Wahlberg?

• 40:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:55David Sims?

  I did not see that one.

• 40:56Speaker 04

  It's terrible.

• 40:57Griffin Newman?

  It's him and Halle Berry?

• 40:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it's awful. And but he, again, he becomes, he saves the day.

• 41:03Griffin Newman?

  He has made five of these where it's either, can you believe this guy used to be?

• 41:07Speaker 04

  It's a lot of union jokes.

• 41:09Griffin Newman?

  Or this guy's mistaken for.

• 41:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Now, when you say a lot of union jokes, which kind of union are we talking?

• 41:14Speaker 04

  Labor unions. Like, it's all about, they go to Europe and it's like, ah, the plumbers guild will help us with this. And then all these plumbers come out with these pipes.

• 41:22Griffin Newman?

  By Hervé Village.

• 41:22David Sims?

  So, so, post-Lubowski.

• 41:25Speaker 04

  The plumber.

• 41:26David Sims?

  The Coens basically have two scripts ready. They got The Barber, they've got Oh Brother. George Clooney apparently becomes available, so they're like, great, let's do Oh Brother. Um, but they go right from that to, um, Man Who Wasn't There. And, uh, it may shock you guys to learn that the sort of pulp novels of the 1940s were a big influence on this film.

• 41:45Griffin Newman?

  But visually.

• 41:46David Sims?

  James M. Cain, et cetera.

• 41:48Griffin Newman?

  A thing I love about this movie is that they're like, no, visually what we were studying were like low budget B sci fi films.

• 41:54David Sims?

  Yes, that's true. That's absolutely right.

• 41:56Griffin Newman?

  Because it's black and white and shadowy, a lot of people were like, oh, they're just doing like noir riff. And they're like, no, no, there's like a major difference here. There are a lot of gray tones in this. We're not doing the sort of like, inky black, dark shadow.

• 42:08Speaker 04

  And it's their only black and white movie.

• 42:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 42:10Speaker 04

  And how many, Roger Deakins shot it, of course. How many black and white movies has Roger Deakins done?

• 42:15Griffin Newman?

  That's a good question. I wonder.

• 42:17David Sims?

  How many? I mean, this was where I said, I feel like it was a true novelty when this film came out. Like, black and white movies had really, you know, gone out of style. I guess Soderbergh had made one.

• 42:27Griffin Newman?

  That's later.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  Now, The Good German.

• 42:29Griffin Newman?

  No, no.

• 42:30Speaker 04

  That was after, it was around the same time now.

• 42:32Griffin Newman?

  But like, was Kafka black and white?

• 42:33Speaker 04

  Was it?

• 42:34Griffin Newman?

  Was a cut of it black and white?

• 42:36Speaker 04

  It's half color, half black and white, but that was a decade earlier.

• 42:39Griffin Newman?

  And Ed was.

• 42:40David Sims?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 42:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. Ed was 95 and that was largely blamed for why the movie, like, just bottomed out at the mom's office.

• 42:46David Sims?

  The same for this one.

• 42:47Griffin Newman?

  But obviously very.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  Well, I disagree. I think the re, and I, I, I wanted to bring this up. Uh, I remember when this came out, and it is a downer of the film, even though I think it's really very good. It's depressing. This movie came out like five, six weeks after 9/11.

• 43:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 43:03Speaker 04

  And I remember talking to people.

• 43:07Speaker 04

  Like I like my cinephile friends at the time and everybody was like, it's so, I can't like, I didn't want to see it. So depressing.

• 43:13David Sims?

  No, no one was in the mood.

• 43:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:14David Sims?

  You're not wrong.

• 43:15Speaker 04

  I think if it came out a year before, it would have been more, more of a substantial hit. Don't you think?

• 43:19David Sims?

  No.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  No, not at all.

• 43:20David Sims?

  There's no way this movie's ever.

• 43:21Speaker 04

  Well, not a hit, but it would have been like, nobody saw it.

• 43:24David Sims?

  He thought Thanos.

• 43:25Griffin Newman?

  It also, this wins best director at Cannes.

• 43:29David Sims?

  It did. It tied with David Lynch from Mulholland Drive. They both, they split the best director prize between.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  But Cannes was before nine 11.

• 43:35Griffin Newman?

  But so they were, right. They were giving it to Mulholland late and man who wasn't there early. Is that right?

• 43:40David Sims?

  No, it's the same year, 2001.

• 43:42Griffin Newman?

  I always get confused about, for some reason, thinking Mulholland's fucking 2000.

• 43:46David Sims?

  It's not.

• 43:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 43:47David Sims?

  No, Liv Ullman gave the Palme d'Or, of course, to Nanny Moretti's The Son's Room over, which is an okay movie.

• 43:54Speaker 04

  I do like that movie.

• 43:55David Sims?

  Over Mulholland Drive, Man Who Wasn't There, uh, fucking Moulin Rouge, uh, The Piano Teacher, the hecky movie.

• 44:03Griffin Newman?

  Shrek.

• 44:03David Sims?

  And Shrek.

• 44:04Griffin Newman?

  Was in.

• 44:05David Sims?

  He was in competition.

• 44:07Speaker 04

  Where he belongs.

• 44:08David Sims?

  That's right.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  And where he shall remain.

• 44:10David Sims?

  Do you think Shrek 5 will be in competition?

• 44:11Griffin Newman?

  I hope so. If they have any respect.

• 44:13David Sims?

  Send your letters.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  They should do it.

• 44:15Griffin Newman?

  No, but I think you are right, Jordan, that there's no version of this movie that's like a fucking slam dunk, but I think there's something to, not just like co-incredibility, right? But there's something to that movie playing at Cannes before nine 11. Then the response that got in the release afterwards versus Mulholland being a movie that weirdly in its sort of tapping into a deep existential sadness, felt more, uh, welcoming to the public.

• 44:45David Sims?

  Sure.

• 44:45Griffin Newman?

  Post nine 11.

• 44:46David Sims?

  Also, like, we're gonna look at the box office game for 2001. It's so fascinating to see how unfortunately, you know, Hollywood could not meet the mood of the country because the stuff that they're offering definitely is not like, have you recently experienced a national tragedy? Would you like to see a film we're gonna talk about? Like, it's a lot of weird, dark shit.

• 45:06Griffin Newman?

  In 99 and 2000, you had a lot of very serious movies that did well at the box office.

• 45:11David Sims?

  That's what I'm saying. Like you're, you're seeing like.

• 45:12Griffin Newman?

  They're following that trend.

• 45:14David Sims?

  Yeah. So, okay. All right.

• 45:15Griffin Newman?

  It's the thing that everyone talks about of just like Lord of the Rings was the movie that met the moment and people were like, thank God this thing got made.

• 45:23David Sims?

  Yes.

• 45:23Griffin Newman?

  We needed this now.

• 45:24David Sims?

  So. Obviously, James M. Kane is the biggest inspiration other, but the Kane is the big one because Kane is always about like a guy makes a bad decision and you just like it shit gets worse, right? Like it's always the narrative is always like

• 45:37Speaker 04

  That's postman always rings twice and that kind of, yeah.

• 45:39David Sims?

  Now Mildred Pierce is the most famous James and Kane novel in a way. And of course, there is a Michael Curtis 1945 film that is well regarded, but the Coens don't like it. And they initially were like, should we do Mildred Pierce? Should we like get the rights?

• 45:54Speaker 04

  Never knew that.

• 45:55David Sims?

  Because they're kind of fascinated by Glendale, which is where Mildred Pierce is set. And they're like, we really like, do like the Glendale saga because the movie doesn't bother to get into any of that. Of course, Todd Haynes eventually made his mini series version of it. But instead they were like, no, let's write a weird thing about a barber.

• 46:15David Sims?

  And Shadow of a Doubt, the Hitchcock film, obviously another big influence, they say. I'm not seeing another Deacon's black and white film, by the way. No, I wasn't either. I took a, I mean, I don't know some of those early ones, but I doubt they were. I do always forget that he did shoot The Siege and the Company Men. There's some bad ones, but mostly good.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  And the Buster Scruggs, the final chapter is not in black and white, but it's close, right? They really play with the

• 46:38David Sims?

  It's, it's desaturated.

• 46:39Speaker 04

  Desaturated, but it's not black and white.

• 46:41David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 46:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:42David Sims?

  Um, but as Griffin said, Cold War Buster Scruggs. He doesn't shoot Buster Scruggs.

• 46:49Speaker 04

  That wasn't, that wasn't Deacon?

• 46:51David Sims?

  No.

• 46:51Speaker 04

  My God.

• 46:52David Sims?

  Cold War sci fi. Yeah. Is another influence, especially visually, but like the sort of like Bruno D'Onofо.

• 47:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, who's a great guy. He shot Lou and Davis too.

• 47:03David Sims?

  You said, yeah, as if it was obvious, even though you didn't provide that answer. I was

• 47:06Speaker 04

  Well, I don't, I'm looking at the dossier about this. I'm not fucking looking at that. Multiple conversations to work.

• 47:11David Sims?

  Jesus. Um, sci fi saucers, pod people, atom bomb anxiety, all that stuff, right? You know, like, right? That's, that is, you're right. Like Absolutely. The film I unfortunately thought about a lot when I saw this film in theaters when I was 15 years old was Pleasantville because it feels like it's set in Pleasantville like, and it's got the black and white and everyone is kind of initially just sort of like a little, you know, stiff character before.

• 47:37Speaker 04

  And the music in Pleasantville is, is of course Randy Newman.

• 47:40David Sims?

  The great Randy.

• 47:40Speaker 04

  And this music has Beethoven and they're about equal in, in, in quality.

• 47:45David Sims?

  Yeah. Remember when you finally engineered the critic circle, giving Randy Newman a special award and then he like hurt his hip and he couldn't

• 47:50Speaker 04

  He couldn't make it.

• 47:52Griffin Newman?

  What year was that?

• 47:54David Sims?

  Uh, it was like two or three years ago.

• 47:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was, it was, it was a year of marriage story.

• 47:58David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:59Speaker 04

  And I had been campaigning to get him a lifetime achievement award. Cause the New York Film Critics Circle does not give music awards. And I, I, I took me a couple of years to get that Sisyphean thing up the hill.

• 48:12David Sims?

  It fell on deaf ears a couple of times, but.

• 48:14Speaker 04

  And then finally, uh, we gave him the award and he had hip surgery and couldn't come from.

• 48:18Griffin Newman?

  But he was, he was. Who except on his behalf?

• 48:19Speaker 04

  I did.

• 48:20Griffin Newman?

  Wasowski?

• 48:20Speaker 04

  Me, cause it happened that he thought he was gonna come at the last minute, he couldn't come. And our chair.

• 48:24David Sims?

  It was Wazowski.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  It was, it was. Our, our chair, um.

• 48:28Griffin Newman?

  But ironically in the photos, he's blocked out, you can't see him.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  The chair, when was Alison Wilmore, who we love.

• 48:33David Sims?

  Of course.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  And she, um, had so much else going on.

• 48:36David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:37Speaker 04

  There was a lot of chaos that year. It was, it happened to be the best year. It was, that was the Irishman year, right? And there was so much going on. And she, the last one was like, Randy was not coming, you're gonna talk on his behalf. He's gonna send you, his people are gonna send you a speech and you're gonna read on his behalf. And I'm like, I am? When is this happening?

• 48:52David Sims?

  It was kind of a like, Jordan, you asked for this.

• 48:54Speaker 04

  It was great though. But you know, it was a funny story because I get up there.

• 48:58Griffin Newman?

  You also must play his great American song.

• 49:00Speaker 04

  Sorry, I get that. Well, let me tell you a story. Now, so I get up there and it's the, you know, it's happened to be a big year.

• 49:07David Sims?

  It is like Marty De Niro and Pesci sitting right in front of you or whatever.

• 49:11Speaker 04

  Go up on the stage and I go up there and I start doing Hoffman shtick and I kill.

• 49:15David Sims?

  Good.

• 49:16Speaker 04

  I make a couple of good jokes. Can I tell, can I repeat one of the jokes?

• 49:19David Sims?

  Unless it's, I mean, wait, Salacious Crumb?

• 49:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was, it was a good, yo, Quentin was there.

• 49:26David Sims?

  Quentin Tarantino was also there.

• 49:27Speaker 04

  Brad Pitt was there.

• 49:28David Sims?

  He was.

• 49:28Speaker 04

  And so I was like, hey, it's a great night.

• 49:31Griffin Newman?

  I hear Tarantino is a big fan of Salacious Crumb's podcast, by the way.

• 49:33Speaker 04

  I said, it's a great night for the, for movies. It's a great night for New York. We're all here. And I said, listen, I know we're a little nervous because the film critics are here with the stars. And you're worrying, can, can any of, can, can maybe we meet one of these people? Can we make an introduction? So I said, don't worry. Hey, Brad Pitt, don't worry. If you want to meet Eric Cohen, I know him and I can make an introduction. Eric Cohen, for those listening, he's a film critic and whatever.

• 49:57Griffin Newman?

  Executive at a.

• 49:59David Sims?

  Now he works for Harmony Creed.

• 50:00Speaker 04

  He's a great guy.

• 50:00David Sims?

  Whatever.

• 50:01Speaker 04

  But I picked Eric Cohen.

• 50:03David Sims?

  We love Eric Cohen.

• 50:03Speaker 04

  Cohen is a funny name.

• 50:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's a good joke.

• 50:05Speaker 04

  It's got a K. So, uh, everybody laughed. Everybody laughed at my joke. Brad Pitt laughed at my joke. But I looked down front, dead center, three feet away from me. Spike Lee, Martin Scorsese, Robert De Niro, stone faced, as if they could not wait to strangle me because I was wasting their time.

• 50:23Griffin Newman?

  De Niro unsur- De Niro unsurprising.

• 50:27David Sims?

  Yeah, De Niro doesn't strike me as a big laugher.

• 50:30Griffin Newman?

  Scorsese and Lee love to laugh.

• 50:31David Sims?

  Yeah, they do.

• 50:32Griffin Newman?

  They're chucklers.

• 50:34Speaker 04

  They're yucks. I've seen the, the, the friend, friend Lebowitz documentary. All it is is Marty laughing all day.

• 50:40Griffin Newman?

  He's laughing like crazy.

• 50:41David Sims?

  And you're, you're a cluck, a cousin to friend Lebowitz.

• 50:43Speaker 04

  I, he and I are best friends. So I, I gotta admit, when I looked down and I saw Marty and Spike dead, I was a little bit upset.

• 50:51Griffin Newman?

  It's upsetting.

• 50:52David Sims?

  Sorry.

• 50:52Speaker 04

  And, but I moved on. I moved on. I, I persevered nevertheless.

• 50:57David Sims?

  Maybe Spike had just said like, I don't like Koon Dune. And Marty been like, well, I don't like high, you know, fucking, you know, he got game. I don't know.

• 51:05Speaker 04

  Anywho, the point I'm making is this.

• 51:07David Sims?

  Those came out the same year.

• 51:08Speaker 04

  Uh, the man who wasn't, so we were talking about the man who wasn't there, right?

• 51:11David Sims?

  What's the point? Or, or continue.

• 51:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. The music in Pleasantville.

• 51:15David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  Is Randy Newman style classical. The music in The Man Who Wasn't There is not, is film noir brass.

• 51:22David Sims?

  No, it's all Beethoven.

• 51:23Griffin Newman?

  It's Beethoven. Just, you, you couldn't figure out why Spike Lee didn't like your, your shtick? David, you're British, right?

• 51:30David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 51:30Griffin Newman?

  You're British?

• 51:31David Sims?

  Yeah, was it?

• 51:33Griffin Newman?

  Not his cup of tea.

• 51:34David Sims?

  Yeah, very good. That is one of, pretty good. It's one of those things where you're like, he's clearly had it in his, you know, he's ready to go with it. It's not like he's coming up with it off the top of his head, but it's so wonderful. But he's like little impish Mister, he's dressed like Mister Mix and Spitlet. He's like all in purple.

• 51:51Speaker 04

  He's very happy. You know, I just saw it like literally last night. There's this new documentary um, called Mr. Scorsese.

• 51:57David Sims?

  Which I'm very excited to watch.

• 51:58Speaker 04

  Which is by the time, by the time this airs, it'll be on Apple Plus.

• 52:02David Sims?

  The whole Day Lewis family is out there this year.

• 52:04Speaker 04

  He's the only.

• 52:05Griffin Newman?

  Equally good films.

• 52:06Speaker 04

  Everybody in the whole universe calls Martin Scorsese Marty, of course, obviously.

• 52:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 52:11Speaker 04

  Except for Danny Day Lewis calls him Martin. Never calls him Marty. But Spike Lee has a great moment, almost as good as Not My Cup of Tea. He just goes, thank God for asthma.

• 52:22David Sims?

  Such a great quote.

• 52:24Griffin Newman?

  It's a good.

• 52:24David Sims?

  Right, because he would have been a priest otherwise.

• 52:26Griffin Newman?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 52:26David Sims?

  A man who wasn't there, they didn't write the protagonist with anyone in mind, but of course, they wrote Fran's part for Fran and they wrote Michael Bataluccio's part for Michael Bataluccio. Fran Lebowitz, no Fran, McDormand, of course.

• 52:37Griffin Newman?

  There is, I could not find any substantiating of this, but there, there have always been whispers that they had wanted Bill Murray to do this.

• 52:45David Sims?

  I mean, that's a really cool idea.

• 52:47Griffin Newman?

  It's a cool idea. They would have beaten Lost in Translation to The Punch.

• 52:51David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 52:51Griffin Newman?

  I also.

• 52:52David Sims?

  Obviously Rushmore's happened already, but like, yeah.

• 52:54Griffin Newman?

  The only reason I feel it is worth giving that rumor oxygen.

• 52:58David Sims?

  Talking to the other Ethan Coen writing who wrote Garfield or whatever, right?

• 53:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Well, I just want to tie this in. Bad Santa came because, what are they, Requiem and Farrar, the, I always.

• 53:12David Sims?

  Vicar and Requiem.

• 53:13Griffin Newman?

  Vicar and Requiem. They were like obsessed with the Coen Brothers.

• 53:17David Sims?

  Sure.

• 53:17Griffin Newman?

  And we're like, can we write a movie for you?

• 53:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 53:19Griffin Newman?

  And they said.

• 53:20David Sims?

  To me, if you're obsessed with the Coen Brothers, you should probably know that you can't. But anyway, whatever.

• 53:25Griffin Newman?

  That was their response, right? And they were like, we really, we like writing our own things. And they're like, is there anything we could do? And they're like, look, we've always thought it'd be funny to make a movie about a mall Santa who robs people, but we never actually had anything.

• 53:41David Sims?

  They're like, here's our stupidest idea. Do you like it?

• 53:44Griffin Newman?

  They were like, we never had an idea past that point.

• 53:47David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 53:47Griffin Newman?

  If you guys want to run with that.

• 53:49David Sims?

  We'll take 10 points.

• 53:50Griffin Newman?

  We'll do something, right? And they like brought it to them and they were like, this is good. We'd produce this. And that movie was designed to star Bill Murray and Bill Murray famously would never commit to the contract. And it was like on the runway with Bill Murray for a long time and Billy Bob Thornton slots in really late.

• 54:07David Sims?

  But it's, that movie's after this, right?

• 54:09Griffin Newman?

  Because of their working relationship on this, I have to think that they hooked.

• 54:13David Sims?

  Like, he's, can you imagine? But like they're behind the camera, right? They're setting up a shot on a man who wasn't there. He's in his barber smock. And then like Joel just like takes a little Santa hat and like starts holding it over the frame or whatever.

• 54:26Griffin Newman?

  Billy Bob Thornton. Both of those movies were designed to be Bill Murray vehicles. It did feel like the Coens had some desire to do. Some Bill Murray sad sack thing.

• 54:33Speaker 04

  I mean, I love the Bill Murray sad sack, obviously, but I think it would it would have been too funny.

• 54:39David Sims?

  I think it would have been a tougher needle to thread.

• 54:41Speaker 04

  Because Bill Murray is inherently funny because he has a funny looking face.

• 54:44David Sims?

  And beyond that, it's like, I sort of more assume Bill Murray's gonna make wrong decisions and get in trouble. Then Thornton, where you're like, the whole movie, you're like, is this guy like a psycho? Is this guy like a damaged war veteran? Like, what's going on behind the eyes?

• 54:59Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna get all, we're gonna get to all this, but I do think also, like Thornton has that like Humphrey Bogart thing where you're like, this guy is such an unconventional star, right? Everything about him is like odd and prickly, and yet he is just the most compelling guy on screen.

• 55:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, like the thing is, in this movie, you're kind of like, why is this guy such a loser? Like, he's a handsome dude. Like, why doesn't, why isn't he?

• 55:23David Sims?

  But he's not handsome in a, you know, whatever.

• 55:25Griffin Newman?

  Right. I'm like, in this movie, he is weirdly magnetic and attractive, but you're also like, Billy Bob Thornton can be the worst looking guy in movies, right? Like, it's just, he's such an extreme visually, in terms of his voice, in terms of his affectation. Like, even if you're doing a subversion of the Bill Murray persona in 2001, you're playing with what is a persona that we've all gotten our hands around? Versus Billy Bob Thornton, despite being at the end of this, like, run that you're talking about where he was on fire, still, no one could really classify what is the magic with this guy?

• 55:56David Sims?

  Not quite.

• 55:56Griffin Newman?

  As evidenced by him being this kind of like legit austere, like, writer and movie star, who also is like doing vampiric sex with Angelina Jolie, and then like fucking clocking into like, you know, fifth leads in blockbuster films and killing it, and not seeming above the material. You're like, what is this guy's deal?

• 56:14Speaker 04

  And especially because the first movie most people saw him in was Sling Blade, where he's, you know, not.

• 56:19Griffin Newman?

  Fully transformed.

• 56:21Speaker 04

  Fully transformed. Right. Now, I would imagine at some point we'll talk about how there is a wide interpretation of this movie that he's a closeted gay man.

• 56:28David Sims?

  We'll talk about all that. No, I'm gonna finish the dossier. Okay. Thornton and the Coens had a mutual friend, a producer, I don't know, who who apparently would throw Super Bowl parties and they met at a Super Bowl party. Insane to think about. Joel Coen considers him one of Hollywood's true chameleons, despite his reputation is like, oh, he's a southern guy. He likes French potatoes. Um, and but they had known him for a while. They keep saying they keep stressing like he was in our orbit, essentially.

• 56:54Griffin Newman?

  And sense also just from his, his screenwriting days. I mean, similar with Tim Blake Nelson and, you know?

• 56:59David Sims?

  Yeah, no, that's you're right. You're right. Absolutely. And he makes like, you know, like one false move feels like a movie that Coens would love or whatever. Um, Ed Crane, uh, they're like, he's a very passive character. He's most reactive. It's so hard for an actor, you know, to throw them a role like that. Uh, and like, we just thought Billy Bob would understand like the stillness and like saying very little and all that. And, uh, yes, he loved it. And like, apparently while they were shooting it, he would like sort of hinted a smile and he'd be like, too much, or he would like cock and like, he knew like, I can barely do anything. Uh, Thornton's like, this guy and the guy in The Simple Plan are the closest to me.

• 57:40David Sims?

  I agree. I'm like, okay, Billy Bob, but okay.

• 57:42Griffin Newman?

  That's interesting. There's also a lot of space between those two guys. There's a broad spectrum, but I kind of get what he's saying.

• 57:49David Sims?

  He seems like an odd interview. So maybe he just kind of says stuff.

• 57:52Griffin Newman?

  He's also infamously like one of the most neurotic men in Hollywood beyond being like prickly, right? And being very hair trigger. There are all these things about Billy Bob Thornton, where he's like terrified of water. He has like a well-established phobia of antiques.

• 58:07David Sims?

  Wait, doesn't he not fly? He also, he's got crazy OCD. That's like very, as he puts it geometrical. And there was an incident on set where he had to like drive around the set a certain number of times before he went to the coffee bean. And he's like, fortunately the Coens were like completely amused by this, not annoyed.

• 58:23Griffin Newman?

  But it's like, one of these things where like, you know, you read it online and you're like, that's not true. And then you look for the interview where he dispels it and he'll go on some fucking morning drive time show and they'll be like, no, I read somewhere that you have a phobia of antiques. And he's like, yes, I do. I don't like being surrounded by old things.

• 58:39David Sims?

  You know what, Billy?

• 58:40Griffin Newman?

  He's like, I get hives. It freaks me out.

• 58:42David Sims?

  I kind of get it.

• 58:43Griffin Newman?

  I think they're bad spirits and those things, you know? Like, I know there was a whole to do, like, there's a, there's a big-

• 58:48David Sims?

  Like, they take a blindfold off him on something, and he's like, "Man, he's sorry," he's like, "No!"

• 58:53Speaker 04

  Grandfather clock, huh?

• 58:55Griffin Newman?

  It's like, one of those things he's like, very severe about, right? Like, he's not like, "Yeah, I know, it's kind of embarrassing." His WTF is fascinating, because Maren's kind of like going through his reputation with him.

• 59:07Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 59:07Griffin Newman?

  And like, his sense of defensiveness, you know, and like, all of this sort of stuff. And he basically just keeps being like, "I'm like, an ugly, dorky kid. I don't want all this attention. Why are people talking about me?"

• 59:19Speaker 04

  Don't be in the movies.

• 59:20Griffin Newman?

  Exactly, but he has that inner conflict, I think, with him.

• 59:23Speaker 04

  What is your, um, illogical fear?

• 59:26Griffin Newman?

  In life?

• 59:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, what, what freaks you out that shouldn't? What's your grandfather clock to Billy Bob Thornton?

• 59:32Griffin Newman?

  Eggs.

• 59:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:33Griffin Newman?

  Much disgust on this podcast.

• 59:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm, I'm with you.

• 59:35Griffin Newman?

  I have a similar revulsion to being in a room with an egg.

• 59:38Speaker 04

  Any, any style?

• 59:40David Sims?

  Obviously-

• 59:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, once it's cracked.

• 59:42Speaker 04

  Okay. What about you, David Sims?

• 59:44David Sims?

  Oh, I don't know. Obviously, not finishing the dossier is my big fear. Obviously, this is their first collaboration with Frances McDormand.

• 59:51Griffin Newman?

  I'll give you the list after the episode.

• 59:52David Sims?

  Yeah, sure, fine. Uh, Frances McDormand, since Fargo.

• 59:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, which is-

• 59:57David Sims?

  Um, and she's very much like, "I am here to play like an image." You know, she's like, "I'm not an important character."

• 1:00:01Griffin Newman?

  Although I do think she's very-

• 1:00:02David Sims?

  She's great, she's, she's decked.

• 1:00:05Griffin Newman?

  She has more to do in this than I remember.

• 1:00:07David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, because she's in a lot of, like, you know, Gandolfini, this is like, that sort of early Sopranos has just hit phase where-

• 1:00:16Speaker 04

  And he's still doing The Voice.

• 1:00:18David Sims?

  He's, he's, he's closer to Tony in this than I remember.

• 1:00:21Griffin Newman?

  Baby mouth, kind of thing.

• 1:00:22David Sims?

  Right, and when he eats during a scene, and anytime Gandolfini eats, I just think it turns, like, it was like the-

• 1:00:26Griffin Newman?

  Ah! But my memory of this film is so much that, like, you know, the Entertainment Weekly previews and everything, you know, the long lead previews before 9/11 and everything, the hype on this movie was like- Gandolfini, this is his first big movie move since Sopranos. In a Coens film, this feels like a perfect tee up to a supporting actor nom. And here's Frances McDormand, she hasn't worked with them since Fargo when she won best actress. Perfect tee up to a supporting actress nom. And then the movie comes out and people are like, oh, they really don't have that much.

• 1:00:56David Sims?

  No, I, they're both good.

• 1:00:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:58David Sims?

  Shalhoub is amazing.

• 1:00:59Griffin Newman?

  Shalhoub is incredible.

• 1:01:01David Sims?

  And like, I remember him having brief sort of like critics kind of buzz.

• 1:01:05Griffin Newman?

  He got an AFI nomination, the only year the AFI did a televised award show with multiple categories.

• 1:01:11David Sims?

  Uh, he rocks.

• 1:01:12Griffin Newman?

  But I, yes, I think they tried too late to get a kind of critics group. He's doing his character from Barton Fink just times 10. It's the same, it's great. It's so good. Slick and he is slowed down, you know, it's, it's less stylized.

• 1:01:25David Sims?

  Sometimes you need a little lube.

• 1:01:28Griffin Newman?

  Thank you for that. Producer Ben, thank you very much for adding something. It's been too long, so we added a new term to the glossary. This is a film that decides to lube it up.

• 1:01:36David Sims?

  Yeah, they do. They are lubing it up. Is that, is this the last Shalhoub? Coens? Uh, he's in Barton Fink, obviously.

• 1:01:45Griffin Newman?

  Our friend who runs the, the Blank Check Meta account, I asked him to do a full tally of Coen Brothers repeated appearances. I was gonna save it for the Scruggs episode.

• 1:01:54David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:01:55Griffin Newman?

  But I have the full data. We don't need no Scruggs.

• 1:02:06David Sims?

  But did Shalhoub ever?

• 1:02:07Griffin Newman?

  Wait, no, what was the point? He never did. I interrupted your.

• 1:02:10David Sims?

  He never did.

• 1:02:11Griffin Newman?

  That this is his last. Oh, this is his last? Oh. Yeah.

• 1:02:13David Sims?

  Too bad. Um, so this film, of course, was shot in color and, uh, then, you know, uh, they turned it into black and white.

• 1:02:21Griffin Newman?

  Basically, both because at this point in time, the resources were so limited for shooting and processing.

• 1:02:29David Sims?

  Chemical.

• 1:02:29Griffin Newman?

  That they, they just basically always advise you to shoot in color and adjust it later. And obviously this is Posto Brother where like Deacons has kind of started to break down all the doors of post-fut.

• 1:02:39David Sims?

  There's also the classic, you hear this and for this, it is true of like, we need a color version to sell to European markets.

• 1:02:46Griffin Newman?

  It is always this thing that European markets are like, we will not.

• 1:02:50David Sims?

  Uh, the film was cheap.

• 1:02:51Speaker 04

  Which is weird. They're supposed to be so intellectual over there.

• 1:02:54Griffin Newman?

  So bizarre. And like Ed Wood, I think is one of the rare like post 90 examples. I think Dead Man as well.

• 1:03:00Speaker 04

  Black and white or shove it.

• 1:03:01Griffin Newman?

  Actually shot in black and white. There's nothing you can fucking do with this, but like Nebraska is one that was shot in color.

• 1:03:06Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 1:03:07Griffin Newman?

  And they aired the color version, European TV, and then Epix made a big deal of like, we have the color version. And Alexander Payne basically sent a cease and desist.

• 1:03:15Speaker 04

  That's so funny.

• 1:03:16Griffin Newman?

  There's a similar thing where the Coen brothers are like, not only do we not approve of man who wasn't there in color, but it like, looks bad. There's shit in it we did.

• 1:03:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:03:24Griffin Newman?

  That doesn't work.

• 1:03:26David Sims?

  Right. It's not designed to be.

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, all those scenes in the, in the, in the jail with the shaft of light and whatnot, that's gotta be in black.

• 1:03:32David Sims?

  But Deakins also says, I fucked around with like, you know, existing black and white stocks and I felt they were too like grainy, too documentary feeling, like they felt like ghost movies is one way he puts it where he's like, when I'm shooting in color, I can adjust the light, uh, to give it like more of a noir feel, less of one, depending on the scene. I mean, Deakins has been working with the Coens for years at this point. Deakins is like a obviously celebrated DP and he had done Kundun for Marty, uh, Scorsese, Martin himself. But like, I remember this was the year where everyone was like, in my silly little cinephile world, like, he absolutely needs the Oscar.

• 1:04:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:12David Sims?

  And of course, the movie lost to Lord of the Rings, first cinematography, which of course is a gorgeous.

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  Sure. Yeah.

• 1:04:18David Sims?

  And the cameras flying all over and like all kinds of cool shit is happening. But I remember it being that you were like, Deakins cleaned up the critics awards and like all that, you know?

• 1:04:27Griffin Newman?

  And I think almost most telling, like he gets the nomination, even though this movie completely blanks otherwise. And it is the start of the bit of that run of just like, even if the movie doesn't hit with us, Deakins is basically getting auto nominated.

• 1:04:40Speaker 04

  Sure, sure.

• 1:04:41Griffin Newman?

  Not even out of respect, but because like every year his work is so undeniable.

• 1:04:45Speaker 04

  It's so recognizable.

• 1:04:46Griffin Newman?

  Even if we bounced on the film, we have to pay.

• 1:04:49Speaker 04

  Did, did, uh,

• 1:04:49Griffin Newman?

  Respect.

• 1:04:50Speaker 04

  Assassination of Jesse James, did that get him a nomination?

• 1:04:52Griffin Newman?

  So we talk about this in a future episode, but that year he is nominated against himself. So he loses the Oscar to Ellsworth for There Will Be Blood because he's nominated for both Jesse James and No Country.

• 1:05:05Speaker 04

  I see.

• 1:05:05Griffin Newman?

  I think he would have won that year had it been one film or the other.

• 1:05:10David Sims?

  Um, yes.

• 1:05:11Griffin Newman?

  He does not win until Blade Runner, which is crazy.

• 1:05:14Speaker 04

  Wow, I would never have remembered that was what he won for. I knew that he did win, but I didn't know it was for that.

• 1:05:20David Sims?

  And, uh, yes, uh, so, um, you've also, right, in Beautiful Mind, as you mentioned, and, you know, Lord of the Rings, it's a big, it's a crazy movie year, and this was a, like, I would say, fairly warmly received small movie, like, in a pretty kind of loud, noisy year.

• 1:05:38Griffin Newman?

  It was their, I, the stat I saw was it was their lowest grossing film since Hudsucker.

• 1:05:44David Sims?

  That makes sense. It didn't cost a ton, which is partly why they got to make it in black and white and all that, but it just felt like the, the reaction at the time was a little golf clappy, was a little kind of like, there's nothing, this is good, handsome.

• 1:05:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:57David Sims?

  Interesting.

• 1:05:58Griffin Newman?

  I, I was-

• 1:05:58David Sims?

  But not like another masterpiece from the Coen Brothers.

• 1:06:01Griffin Newman?

  I was so recently Coen-pilled at this time as like a 12, 13 year old, having just seen Oh Brother, and that being like my activation moment, I'm starting to fill in the gaps, but so I was like so electrified by this at the time as a young man who's just like, you guys are telling me they've made better movies than this? If this is my entry point, you know?

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  There, there is an aspect of this movie that plays in my head fairly regularly. It's a line from this film, and it's a little, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, cause I'm a little older than you guys, so I'm gonna talk a little bit honesty here. I was, I was debating whether or not I bring this up, but I'm just gonna go for it, and now's the time. Um, you are not married.

• 1:06:43Griffin Newman?

  I am, I am unmarried. I'm Gary unmarried. Yeah.

• 1:06:46Speaker 04

  David Sims is, is not only married, he has so many children, I can't even count how many he's got.

• 1:06:51Griffin Newman?

  Sometimes I look across the room here, and I feel like I'm, I'm tuning into Fox in the mid 90s, because this guy's married with children.

• 1:06:59Griffin Newman?

  It's true.

• 1:07:00Speaker 04

  That, I've been married for a very long time, happily.

• 1:07:02Griffin Newman?

  Happily.

• 1:07:03Speaker 04

  Married for-

• 1:07:03Griffin Newman?

  I just wanted to say, I also recently got married.

• 1:07:05Speaker 04

  Hey, Mazel tov, that's right.

• 1:07:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but very recently. He doesn't have the years on you.

• 1:07:08Speaker 04

  Well, so, loving-

• 1:07:11Griffin Newman?

  I'm just saying a fact.

• 1:07:11Speaker 04

  A loving and caring relationship is something that I, I, I have, and I'm proud to have it. And, but, when you've been married for really long times, I've been with the same woman for a really long time. We met, we met before this movie was in theaters, like, by two weeks or so, but we met in July of 2001, just before 9/11, we met. And, uh-

• 1:07:36David Sims?

  Coincidence.

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  Her name is Mohammed Ada. No, so, uh, the, the-

• 1:07:43Speaker 04

  My salacious loves that. So here's the thing, even when you're married to someone that you love and is and is still there, the line when Billy, Billy Bob says, my wife and I have not performed the sex act in some time.

• 1:07:58David Sims?

  He does say that.

• 1:07:59Speaker 04

  Is something.

• 1:07:59David Sims?

  To a coroner who's telling him his wife was fucking FYI. It's not like he says that to a random.

• 1:08:03Speaker 04

  At a bar. Every now and then.

• 1:08:05David Sims?

  The guy's like, okay.

• 1:08:09Speaker 04

  Maybe David can, can, but I don't know that he does because he has so many children. He clearly has the sex act all the time. That's the thing. He can't stop having the sex act.

• 1:08:19Speaker 04

  When you get married, every now and then in my life, I'll think to myself, gee, it's kind of been a little while. I mean, not that, that this is any, we still love each other. We still care for one another. But has, has it been some time since the sex? But I might think to myself, geez, been a little bit of a stretch.

• 1:08:35David Sims?

  And then do you start scanning the horizon for Gandolfini?

• 1:08:37Speaker 04

  What I immediately do immediately. Yeah. Is I hear that line from this movie every single time and it happens. And as one day, maybe Griffin, a woman will be, will be wise enough to accept your hand in marriage. If only I'm so lucky to go years without the sex act.

• 1:08:53Speaker 04

  I'm not saying years.

• 1:08:54David Sims?

  Can I ask, why are we discussing this right now?

• 1:08:56Speaker 04

  Because it's the. Cause our guest on this episode is Jordan Hopp. What do you mean? Because, because now the port, the thing about this movie that has lived with me, am I the only one who applauds for himself?

• 1:09:07David Sims?

  No, no, no.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  The only part, the part of this movie that lives with me constantly, but not constant. I don't want to make it sound like it's constantly that I'm not having the sex act. But the thing since I, that I play in my head the most is when I realize that it's been a little while and then I have a conversation to myself and the conversation between me and Billy Bob Thornton and he says, my wife and I have not performed the sex act. Then I say, oh Christ, I better, I better shave, you know, something's going on. I better do something. That's the big takeaway. Light a candle or something. I don't know what's going on. Add, put on the, the Barry White record and then maybe I can break the spell. And that's what it is. And it's always that line from this movie.

• 1:09:47David Sims?

  It's just so funny that, that, cause it's not like you watch this movie and you're like, this movie is about like healthy sexual relationships. I mean, but sure, the sex act.

• 1:09:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:59Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:10:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary, Capturing Bigfoot.

• 1:10:06David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:06Griffin Newman?

  On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:10:17David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:10:18Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. Fifty-nine years later, a reel of 16-millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:10:41David Sims?

  Of course, you've got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows, of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:10:53Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand-new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called "the best rendering of the footage ever seen."

• 1:11:02David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:11:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:11:05David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever. You see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:11:12Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:11:26David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:11:28Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:11:31David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:11:46Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:12:03Speaker 05

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market. Love the crown molding. Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile. Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet. No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen. No FiOS? Yeah, no, thank you. Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 1:12:28David Sims?

  Get Verizon FiOS, because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 1:12:33Speaker 06

  This December, the magic of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol returns to Virginia Repertory Theater in downtown Richmond. Experience the transformation of Ebenezer Scrooge as he's visited by the ghosts of Christmas past, present, and future, and rediscovers the joy and true meaning of the holiday season. Performances run November 18th through December 27th. Tickets on sale now at virginia rep.org or by calling 804-282-2620.

• 1:13:06David Sims?

  This is a film about a quiet barber named Ed Crane. The second chair, he keeps saying it like he's a violinist.

• 1:13:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:12David Sims?

  At a barber shop in the city of Santa Rosa, which is a city in the North Bay.

• 1:13:18Griffin Newman?

  He got kissed in the barbershop from his brother-in-law?

• 1:13:21David Sims?

  I guess so. Is that, Battaluccio is his brother-in-law, right?

• 1:13:24Griffin Newman?

  Right, yeah. Am I wrong about that?

• 1:13:26Speaker 04

  Yes, he's the brother of Fran Lebowitz.

• 1:13:30Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:13:31David Sims?

  Fran.

• 1:13:32Griffin Newman?

  Doris.

• 1:13:32Speaker 04

  Francis McCran.

• 1:13:33David Sims?

  Right, and he is a barber who, it seems like, says like two words out loud. He's Calvin Coolidge-esque.

• 1:13:40Griffin Newman?

  You know, I finished watching this and I immediately said, I wish I had thought to, to like, do the tally on this.

• 1:13:45David Sims?

  How many lines?

• 1:13:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I truly would be curious, how many things does he say out loud?

• 1:13:51David Sims?

  He is, of course, narrating the film.

• 1:13:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, see, here's his voice. His voice is across the whole thing, but I was thinking, this might be a guy who has less than 20 lines of dialogue, which is also just interesting to consider in the production of this movie, that Billy Bob Thornton is often just showing up, standing there, holding a fucking close-up for three minutes that later will be soundtracked by his own voice.

• 1:14:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, he might as well be wearing a Mandalorian helmet, for God's sake.

• 1:14:15Griffin Newman?

  He might as well be wearing a Mandalorian helmet.

• 1:14:19David Sims?

  Um.

• 1:14:20Speaker 04

  This is the way.

• 1:14:21David Sims?

  And. He is married to a bookkeeper at a sort of department store, I guess it is, or whatever. Yeah. Uh, who is a bit of a lush, I would say.

• 1:14:36Griffin Newman?

  She, she likes to dare I say pull cork.

• 1:14:38David Sims?

  Cork. Um, he's in some, he's in one of those marriages where they don't seem to like each other or talk to each other. But like, they're not like fighting.

• 1:14:44Griffin Newman?

  Well, let's do pin in this. I think this is kind of the key to the multiple interpretations of this movie. And it's interesting how wildly different I've seen, uh, reads for this movie.

• 1:14:54David Sims?

  This is one of those.

• 1:14:55Griffin Newman?

  Around the marriage.

• 1:14:56David Sims?

  In the James Elkhane style movies where it's like, the first half of it, the plot moves relatively deliberately. And then the second half shit really just keeps happening over and over. Cause the first half is this kind of quiet, will he, won't he, where it's like John Polito, who we have not yet mentioned, but is kind of at his best in this.

• 1:15:18Griffin Newman?

  You, uh, yeah.

• 1:15:19David Sims?

  Is this his best Cohen's performance?

• 1:15:21Griffin Newman?

  There's, I mean, he's so good in Miller's.

• 1:15:23David Sims?

  Yeah, he's amazing.

• 1:15:25Griffin Newman?

  It's such a fucking skill piece performance, but this is, in a way, it's his most rounded performance.

• 1:15:30David Sims?

  Right. He's playing a, he is playing an actual closeted homosexual, barely closeted.

• 1:15:35Griffin Newman?

  Call him the pansy.

• 1:15:36David Sims?

  Um, uh, who is like a classic 40s guy, right? Sort of a con artist who's like, dry cleaning. It's the future of cleaning. All I need is 10 grand.

• 1:15:46Griffin Newman?

  It's a classic Cohen's character who's full of all these inherent contradictions where you're just like, he is this incredibly aggressive, sloppy con man who is also desperately lonely, lonely, barely closeted, right? And is like.

• 1:16:01David Sims?

  With his pants up over his belly. He love that.

• 1:16:03Griffin Newman?

  But you're like, this guy is constantly at risk of torpedoing his own hustle out of his desperation to be loved even momentarily, you know? There's like so much going on with this guy, even down to sort of like the whole relationship to his rug that he's introduced in the movie, going into a barber shop, needing to get a trim underneath. But not revealing that in fact, the hair on top is fake until the the first chair leaves. Uh, yeah, he's remarkable in this film.

• 1:16:32David Sims?

  Uh, he's wonderful and he is like, oh, if only I had $10,000 for my dry cleaning.

• 1:16:37Speaker 04

  And I love the connection to Hud Sucker there because Hud Sucker, of course, is about the hula hoop. And then it becomes about the frisbee and this is about dry cleaning.

• 1:16:43Griffin Newman?

  Can you believe this thing? Well, because in the context of this movie, you could see the Billy Bob character walking away at the end and being like, and I guess he was just making up that dry cleaning thing. Right? Like the way Polito explains it when he's in the chair, dry cleaning. You heard that right. Dry cleaning.

• 1:16:59Speaker 04

  But it made me Google like who invented dry cleaning.

• 1:17:01Griffin Newman?

  It is. It feels like a 50s B movie, science fiction plot of like, they just spray it with chemicals. No tear on the fabric.

• 1:17:07David Sims?

  I mean, I will say that to this day, I am kind of like.

• 1:17:10Griffin Newman?

  I, I don't understand. I do not understand how that works.

• 1:17:15David Sims?

  Um, it's basically like they just wash it in chemicals rather than in water. I mean, that is, and the chemicals don't get it wet. I don't know how else to describe it to you.

• 1:17:22Speaker 04

  I've never actually seen dry cleaning.

• 1:17:25David Sims?

  No, because you.

• 1:17:26Speaker 04

  You give it to somebody. Well, I mean, what do I get dry? I got a suit dry cleaned once a year and you give it to the guy and then you pick it up a few days later.

• 1:17:32David Sims?

  Cellulose on it.

• 1:17:33Griffin Newman?

  If there was a Netflix series called What Is Dry Cleaning?

• 1:17:37David Sims?

  One billion views.

• 1:17:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. 8,000 episodes. I'd be watching all of them. I would quit this podcast and just start doing a What Is Dry Cleaning recap podcast. Um, can I, can I just for one moment? Just if not pull the brakes, just kind of slow the car down for a moment because I'm realizing. Jordan, what is your general relationship to the Coens? I think this is an important question to ask.

• 1:17:59Speaker 04

  Huge. I mean, I love, I've, I've obsessed, you know?

• 1:18:02Griffin Newman?

  You calling out that you're a little older than us, you were able to come up with their rise in a way that David and I are entering midstream.

• 1:18:08Speaker 04

  I'm a little older than you. So I discovered the Coen Brothers when Raising Arizona was on Cinemax 20,000 times a day. And I discovered them and I did not see Miller's Crossing in theaters, but I was aware of it, but I was too young.

• 1:18:23Griffin Newman?

  But it feels like a fairy Jordan movie.

• 1:18:25Speaker 04

  Oh yeah. So I saw Miller's Crossing the minute it came out on VHS.

• 1:18:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:29Speaker 04

  And then I, from there on, I saw everyone in the theater. So I saw the first one in the theaters was Barton Fink, which is a huge deal. And I loved it, obviously. And I, um. I mourn the schism, you know, because I feel that I've never been able to watch all of the Macbeth film. It put me to sleep both attempts. And I know, you know,

• 1:18:49David Sims?

  That's fine.

• 1:18:50Speaker 04

  It's a good.

• 1:18:50David Sims?

  I mean, I like that movie, but like, you're not gonna die.

• 1:18:53Speaker 04

  Yeah. And then I thought that um, Drive Away Dolls was pretty bad. And I haven't seen Honey Donut. I hear it's awful. And I didn't see Ethan's um,

• 1:19:03Griffin Newman?

  Jerry Lewis.

• 1:19:03Speaker 04

  I haven't watched that.

• 1:19:04Griffin Newman?

  That's maybe the most damning statement in the world, that Jordan Hoffman has not watched Ethan Coens Jerry Lewis documentary.

• 1:19:11Speaker 04

  I should probably watch that. Is that on the streaming? I can stream it somewhere?

• 1:19:14Griffin Newman?

  It's like not now. That's the thing. I felt like I watched it on Plex for free, like three months ago, not on someone's server, as part of like the Plex streaming library.

• 1:19:24Speaker 04

  Oh, it's probably on Canopy. It's probably on Canopy.

• 1:19:26Griffin Newman?

  But then now it's gone. And I was seeing it only available as like $20 purchase.

• 1:19:32David Sims?

  It is rentable.

• 1:19:34Speaker 04

  Yeah. I read when I bought.

• 1:19:36David Sims?

  It's only 71 minutes long, so it's a breeze if you want to watch it.

• 1:19:39Griffin Newman?

  It also looks like it took about 65 minutes to make.

• 1:19:42Speaker 04

  I've read, um, I've read Ethan Coens' short stories.

• 1:19:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:46Speaker 04

  Um, I think they're very good. Garden of Eden, I think the name of the book is called. Um, and uh, so they were my favorites. I, I, I have my own theories as to why they split. I don't want to get into that. But uh, I, I hope they get there. I hope they get back together again, because they can't do it on their own.

• 1:20:03Griffin Newman?

  They always say we're still writing stuff together.

• 1:20:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:20:07Griffin Newman?

  That we needed to explore some side projects and we'll come back together.

• 1:20:10Speaker 04

  I could understand it. I mean, listen, I'll just say, if you were Ethan Coen, would you want to hang out with Frances McDormand that much? I mean, she's a pill. She's very talented. She's very talented, but your sister-in-law.

• 1:20:21Griffin Newman?

  Quite a take for Jordan to launch an hour into this episode.

• 1:20:24Speaker 04

  I mean, if you're, if, if your sister-in-law is Frances McDormand, you're like, oh, Christ, I gotta hang around Fran some more.

• 1:20:29Griffin Newman?

  I think they're two very, very complicated marriages going on in that partnership. I think they're just interesting dynamics.

• 1:20:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Griffin Newman?

  In all directions.

• 1:20:37Speaker 04

  I would not want to hang out with Fran all the time. I mean, she's talented as hell, but like every movie, and she's, you know, I don't know. She's too much, man. Um, and so that's my take. But I think that they should get back together because they don't have the juice on their own. And everyone knows it. And I.

• 1:20:54Griffin Newman?

  It's certainly not the same. And they're, together, they have more juice than basically anyone else on the planet.

• 1:20:58Speaker 04

  I know. They're one of the best. Like, if I had to name my all-time. All time favorite directors, you know, they're in the top five. It's, it's them, it's Woody Allen, it's, um, I mean, it's like, it's not like a schmuck. It's Kubrick and all the, all the classics.

• 1:21:15Griffin Newman?

  Salvatore.

• 1:21:18David Sims?

  Django Messy.

• 1:21:21Griffin Newman?

  I think he's got a good movie in him, even if he hasn't technically directed yet.

• 1:21:25Speaker 04

  He should have cast Billy Bob. No, I mean, I, I, it gets a little cliche, but I think they're that good, you know?

• 1:21:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they are.

• 1:21:31Speaker 04

  But there are some people that just don't, that don't like the Coens at all. They, they are a little bit of like, if you don't like their shtick, you're, you're, there's not, even though they have a broad palette, I mean, they're Inside Lew and Davis and Raising Arizona are very, very different movies, but you could tell that the same, the same

• 1:21:46Griffin Newman?

  authorship. It is interesting to read the reviews of this film at the time. And as we said, a lot of it came out of a bad moment, right? But there was a sense of like, is there anything to this movie beyond shtick? Right?

• 1:21:56Speaker 04

  Yes, no.

• 1:21:57Griffin Newman?

  There was a, a response to it at the time, you see, that was not the sort of like, is this all a joke? Is this all a lark? But it was like, are they just kind of so obsessed with the idea of the vibes and the look and the character? And like, what is this movie actually about?

• 1:22:11Speaker 04

  I think it actually is.

• 1:22:12Griffin Newman?

  What is driving?

• 1:22:12Speaker 04

  I, I personally come away from this film and, and find it meaningful.

• 1:22:16Griffin Newman?

  I do too.

• 1:22:16Speaker 04

  Which, which is funny because the whole premises don't look for meat and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which by the way, I once made Joel and Ethan Cohen laugh.

• 1:22:24Griffin Newman?

  Well, I share this.

• 1:22:25Speaker 04

  I made them laugh at a.

• 1:22:27Griffin Newman?

  You shared your opinions on Francis.

• 1:22:29Speaker 04

  I made them laugh and they don't like doing press, as you know, but I did press for, um, a serious man. I had to do a round table interview, which is awful. They have you with the dregs, uh, with the movie guru and all these schmucks. I don't even want to get into it.

• 1:22:44David Sims?

  Do you think it's more humanist or?

• 1:22:47Speaker 04

  Whatever the. It's an inside joke. But, uh, so, so, so I agreed to do a round table because I'm like, I'm going to get to meet Joel and Ethan Cohen. So it's after serious man. So I got a chance to make a statement. I said, hey, guys, um, This, this film, The Serious Man, has a lot to do with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, you know, who's on the blackboard, you know, and he talks about the cat, you know, even I don't understand the cat. And I'm like, man, who wasn't there hinges on the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. This guy Fritz, or maybe it's Werner. I'm like, what's your third? Are you going to do the trilogy? And that made Ethan chuckle and made Joel smile. So that's a major win.

• 1:23:22David Sims?

  There you go.

• 1:23:23Speaker 04

  As far as I'm concerned.

• 1:23:24David Sims?

  And then they take it the fuck out of my round table.

• 1:23:26Speaker 04

  They didn't give me an answer.

• 1:23:27David Sims?

  Polito gave you the hi hat.

• 1:23:28Speaker 04

  I got the hi hat.

• 1:23:29David Sims?

  Okay. Well, all right. Like, okay, to briefly summarize what the movie is about, because I do think it's, it is more interesting to talk about what do we think, right, is actually going on.

• 1:23:37Griffin Newman?

  You were throwing out the basic setup, right?

• 1:23:39David Sims?

  The basic setup is he, he's the most passive, placid guy, but he makes this one decision that's kind of out of the ordinary, where he's like, I will get 10 grand to give to this rando. And I'm going to do it by blackmailing the man my wife is cuckold.

• 1:23:56Griffin Newman?

  My wife's boss, who by the way, is about to like, expand his business and give her a prime role in the operation.

• 1:24:01David Sims?

  And so essentially, I'm fucking her over.

• 1:24:04Griffin Newman?

  Right. And by the way, fucking over his household.

• 1:24:07David Sims?

  Right. I'm essentially kind of dynamiting everything for this kind of cockamamie thing.

• 1:24:13Griffin Newman?

  And his evidence is a husband knows. He's not wrong, right? But it's not like he catches them.

• 1:24:18David Sims?

  He doesn't have photos.

• 1:24:18Griffin Newman?

  In the act.

• 1:24:19Speaker 04

  No, no, but he knows.

• 1:24:20Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's, he's sensed a vibe. He decides to leverage this to get $10,000 to give to a con artist who also maybe just wants to fuck him. And I love that when he shows up in Polito's room, Polito doesn't even recognize or remember him. You get this reveal later with Gandolfini where you're like, he's throwing out 40 of these.

• 1:24:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:24:39Griffin Newman?

  An hour.

• 1:24:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:24:40Griffin Newman?

  And he's surprised if anyone follows up.

• 1:24:42David Sims?

  And when he almost gets away with it, but there's a couple of problems. One, of course, there is no dry cleaning business that will soon furnish him with this investment. And two is that Gandolfini does eventually figure out that he's the blackmailer. And so he murders Gandolfini. But then he almost gets away with that because the crime gets pinned on his wife. And she, after, you know, a couple twists and turns, is sent to the chair. And before she goes there, she fucking kills herself.

• 1:25:10Speaker 04

  Right. And when he accidentally, he kind of accidentally on purpose kills Gandolfini, there's the great shot. He looks at his hands. His hands do not have blood on them.

• 1:25:20David Sims?

  Um, and then the bizarre kind of final act of the film plays out where it's like, he sort of has like, all the knots have been tied up, right? Like, he's gotten away with it in a sort of way, but then he starts being crazy. Like, he decides he should make a piano star out of his lawyer friend's daughter, played by Scarlett Johansson.

• 1:25:46Speaker 04

  How awesome is Richard Jenkins?

• 1:25:47David Sims?

  He's amazing. He's, uh, and obviously he's amazing in.

• 1:25:50Griffin Newman?

  His first film with them as well, and said, didn't want to audition because he'd been rejected by them so many times.

• 1:25:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:25:54Griffin Newman?

  That he was like, I can't go through the heartbreak of missing out on another.

• 1:25:58Speaker 04

  I would love to know what parts he's auditioned.

• 1:26:00David Sims?

  I mean, there's a lot of parts in Cohen's movies.

• 1:26:03Speaker 04

  That would be appropriate.

• 1:26:04Griffin Newman?

  They use him so well from this moment on.

• 1:26:07David Sims?

  Yeah. Um, and, uh, then she like makes a pass at him in a car. He crashes the car and then when he wakes up, he's, he's accused of murder because they find, they've found John Polito's body, who I think Gandolfini murdered.

• 1:26:21Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:26:22David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:26:22Griffin Newman?

  He beat the pansy to death for making a pass at him.

• 1:26:24David Sims?

  Right. And, uh, you know, and so then, uh, he goes to, uh, trial and then Badalucio, who put up like, you know, the barber shop as the mortgage to try and protect his sister, uh, attacks him in court. And so the, the case falls apart.

• 1:26:39Griffin Newman?

  It's declared a mistrial.

• 1:26:40David Sims?

  And he throws himself at the mercy of the judge who sentences him to the chair. And before he goes to the chair, he sees a UFO, ignores it and is executed for his crimes.

• 1:26:48Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:26:49David Sims?

  That is, I mean, like happens in a man who wasn't there.

• 1:26:52Griffin Newman?

  Of course, right?

• 1:26:52David Sims?

  I guess so, but like.

• 1:26:53Griffin Newman?

  Gandolfini's wife has shown up at his door.

• 1:26:56David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:26:56Griffin Newman?

  After he's seemingly gotten away with the murder.

• 1:26:59David Sims?

  Yes. Who is that actress?

• 1:27:01Griffin Newman?

  It is John Turturro's wife. She also plays the woman at the picnic on the beach in Serious Man.

• 1:27:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:27:09Griffin Newman?

  Her name is Catherine Borowitz. She's a great, great.

• 1:27:12David Sims?

  Great face, but great face.

• 1:27:14Griffin Newman?

  Um, but those two performances, she is like too phenomenal. I know she appears in a couple of other moments, but basically what are killer one scene performances in Cohen's films that are wildly different. And in Serious Man, she's like the one figure of intense empathy and human connection. Where I feel like the great tragedy of that movie is you're just like, just connect to her, right? This guy's life is crumbling and this woman like sees him and hears him.

• 1:27:38David Sims?

  Yeah, it's a great scene.

• 1:27:40Griffin Newman?

  And then she does the opposite thing in this film, which is basically.

• 1:27:43David Sims?

  Shoves him over a cliff mentally.

• 1:27:45Griffin Newman?

  Billy Bob Thornton's in this pocket of just being like. Why am I getting away with this? Why is the universe lining up to escort me through

• 1:27:54David Sims?

  I should be in a James M. Cain novel where it's all going wrong for me and it doesn't seem to be.

• 1:27:59Griffin Newman?

  And we're gonna circle back to my bigger take on the movie.

• 1:28:01David Sims?

  Slippery, right.

• 1:28:02Griffin Newman?

  She shows up at the door and he thinks this is like the wife who's put together the pieces and now she's gonna blackmail him for killing her husband. And instead she goes like, hey, I know your wife's not guilty. I know what happened. We witnessed an alien here. We saw a flying saucer.

• 1:28:18David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:19Griffin Newman?

  It changed us. We know too much. Someone had to like, close the loop. You're good. Your wife's good.

• 1:28:25David Sims?

  It's so good.

• 1:28:25Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry for your loss.

• 1:28:26David Sims?

  It's insane, you know?

• 1:28:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, for the tragedy of your wife. Yeah, getting pinned with this.

• 1:28:32David Sims?

  Um, the, you know, imagine, I remember seeing this for the first time. The UFO thing does throw you for a loop the first time.

• 1:28:40Griffin Newman?

  I had completely forgotten that was a part of the movie.

• 1:28:43David Sims?

  Oh, you'd forgotten even on rewatch. Cause like, once I saw it, I was like, that's the movie where they throw in the UFO.

• 1:28:48Speaker 04

  Right. And the UFO, of course, visually, it's the same as the hubcap from the car crash and the surgeon's

• 1:28:53David Sims?

  Classic thing.

• 1:28:54Speaker 04

  Silver saucer UFO. Right out of Plan 9 from Outer Space.

• 1:28:58Griffin Newman?

  There's a movie called, I think it's literally, it had a couple of different titles, but I think its main one was Earth versus the Flying Saucers.

• 1:29:04Speaker 04

  Yes, great movie.

• 1:29:05Griffin Newman?

  Uh, which was an early Harryhausen film. That is one of the movies this feels most matched to visually. Yeah, even before you actually start putting flying saucers in it.

• 1:29:14Speaker 04

  Can I talk about, cause we mentioned the Scarlett Johansson character? Cause this is something that I wanted to bring up. This was that, there were two things I wanted to bring up today. One was I had to remind the listeners to subscribe to hofstack.substack.com. The other thing was, there's the great scene in this where Scarlett Johansson is playing in one of the Beethoven sonatas. And the whole movie is like, sonatas from Beethoven. They're beautiful. And she mentions what I think is something that we all know. Beethoven was deaf when he wrote this. And that's when you learn that Beethoven, when you're a kid. And you're

• 1:29:46David Sims?

  It seems impossible.

• 1:29:47Speaker 04

  It seems about like when you're, I don't know how old you were, but at some point, some teacher said to you Beethoven, you know Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, the the big three, this guy was deaf. You're like, what? That makes no sense.

• 1:29:57Griffin Newman?

  Sounds like, like a weird fucking like quirk, like he's a, you know, an X man or whatever.

• 1:30:01Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:30:02Griffin Newman?

  But then like I, I think this movie also circle, you're like, A, it's impossible. How could he do it that well if he couldn't even hear it? And then this movie also circles the tragedy of like, and this guy didn't even get to hear it.

• 1:30:12Speaker 04

  I know. Yeah.

• 1:30:12Griffin Newman?

  He wrote this.

• 1:30:13Speaker 04

  Oh, but I, I, here's what I had to say. Everybody, please.

• 1:30:16David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:30:16Speaker 04

  I need, I need the floor. I got both my, I got a visual. I got both my arms up like I just scored a touchdown.

• 1:30:21David Sims?

  Just talk.

• 1:30:22Speaker 04

  This is so important.

• 1:30:22Griffin Newman?

  Give him space. Let my man quote.

• 1:30:24Speaker 04

  Ludwig van Beethoven is a man who everybody knows was deaf. He was not just deaf. His entire life, from the age of his teens until he died, he suffered from crippling diarrhea. He had, and I'm not, I'm

• 1:30:41Griffin Newman?

  You're speaking my language here.

• 1:30:42Speaker 04

  Google this. I'm not joking. I read, I read, I write an 1100 page biography by Jan Swafford on Beethoven. 900 of those 1100 pages are about him shitting. Beethoven shat nonstop. Now, here's the thing. He, toward the end of his life.

• 1:30:57Griffin Newman?

  Why this was a good guest booking. It always is.

• 1:31:00Speaker 04

  Toward the end of Beethoven's life, he was writing, this makes me cry, the most sublime music anyone's ever heard, except for him, because he was deaf. The ode to joy was one of the final things he wrote. Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba.

• 1:31:19David Sims?

  How it feels to really like clean out.

• 1:31:22Griffin Newman?

  A, a true Bob.

• 1:31:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. When you

• 1:31:24David Sims?

  The ode to joy is a Bob.

• 1:31:25Speaker 04

  The, there were quotes of the people who would like in his, in his apartment. Towards the end of his life, there were bowls of shit at his feet, everywhere. He just, he was just shitting and writing music and the, his, his aides.

• 1:31:43Griffin Newman?

  And he hadn't lost his sense of smell. So he was smelling shit while writing ode to joy.

• 1:31:46Speaker 04

  They couldn't even visit him. They wanted to go, have you seen Ludwig? Is he writing? Is he well? We can't go in there. It's too disgusting.

• 1:31:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:53Speaker 04

  He was the most putrid and vile man that ever lived. Sitting in his own shit.

• 1:31:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:00Speaker 04

  But he was creating these works of art that have stand and will continue to stand for centuries. The most beautiful works of art man has ever created, while his body was falling apart, literally falling out of his ass. And yet.

• 1:32:15Griffin Newman?

  David looks really happy.

• 1:32:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, go on, Jordan. I'm just telling you that I find this to be so touching. And I feel that people, people should stop saying, oh, Beethoven was deaf. Scarlett Johansson should have said he was deaf and he was shitting for 20 years.

• 1:32:28Griffin Newman?

  He was shitting his brains out.

• 1:32:29Speaker 04

  For 20 years. Don't you hate when you have diarrhea?

• 1:32:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, my friends.

• 1:32:33Speaker 04

  It's not fun.

• 1:32:33Griffin Newman?

  They preach into the choir.

• 1:32:34Speaker 04

  It's not fun.

• 1:32:35David Sims?

  The man who wasn't there.

• 1:32:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:37Speaker 04

  And he was suffering and yet he still created this artwork.

• 1:32:40Griffin Newman?

  He gave us joy.

• 1:32:41David Sims?

  What do we want to say about the man?

• 1:32:43Speaker 04

  So that's all I have to say.

• 1:32:44Griffin Newman?

  Many, many things. I'm just getting started here.

• 1:32:46David Sims?

  No, no.

• 1:32:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:32:47David Sims?

  What do you want to say about the man who wasn't there?

• 1:32:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes. I have many, many things to say. I think.

• 1:32:51Speaker 04

  There are people who think I'm making this up and they should go to Google.

• 1:32:53David Sims?

  Jordan, I'm actually going to tell you to be, please be quiet now.

• 1:32:55Speaker 04

  They need to Google this.

• 1:32:56Griffin Newman?

  In the Andy D'Amici interview with the Box Masters, 2009. Which by the way, Letterman should add for the.

• 1:33:02David Sims?

  Are you kidding? No.

• 1:33:04Griffin Newman?

  Are you kidding?

• 1:33:05Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 1:33:05David Sims?

  Okay, fine. Can we talk about the movie, please? All right, take a comedy point. Let's talk about the movie, please.

• 1:33:09Griffin Newman?

  Two. Can you give me two?

• 1:33:11David Sims?

  Griffin, can we talk about the movie, please?

• 1:33:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:33:13David Sims?

  Thank you.

• 1:33:13Griffin Newman?

  I think this film is a little bit of a, in certain ways, an answer key for their worldview at a point in time where they're at an interesting.

• 1:33:25David Sims?

  In what?

• 1:33:26Griffin Newman?

  Transition.

• 1:33:27David Sims?

  I'm interested.

• 1:33:28Griffin Newman?

  I think this movie.

• 1:33:29David Sims?

  Not interested in Beethoven's butt.

• 1:33:32Griffin Newman?

  I think this movie is in certain ways a rebuke to the notion that they are nihilists who are mocking all their characters and don't care about anything. Right? I think this movie is an interrogation of a man who seemingly doesn't care about anything. But despite the fact that he does end up murdering people.

• 1:33:47David Sims?

  Gets sucked into a Coens plot.

• 1:33:49Griffin Newman?

  And pulls crimes. I think this movie is kind of about, despite his, his misdeeds, a largely benevolent sociopath, right? It is almost a borderline sympathetic portrayal of someone who is actually incapable of feeling or at the very least isn't capable of being able to have any healthy relationship to his emotions or express them to anyone in his life.

• 1:34:14David Sims?

  He's, right, he's so far gone in terms of like, he'll remark on things like this exact.

• 1:34:22David Sims?

  Having not committed it and like, you know, whatever, like his relationship with his wife and how it's

• 1:34:28Griffin Newman?

  He knows it's not normal. He knows his life is weird, but he doesn't seem to mind.

• 1:34:32David Sims?

  But he won't say like, and I didn't like that. What's weird, obviously, right, is that he makes the decision he makes, the initial decision where you're like, why, if he's so mal, you know, like contented with just kind of like doing nothing and cutting hair and kind of just doing, going through the motions, why does he do this?

• 1:34:51Griffin Newman?

  I could give you, I could give you.

• 1:34:52David Sims?

  I'm not saying you need to explain.

• 1:34:54Griffin Newman?

  The only thing he doesn't like is people who talk too much. Like, that's the only thing that he ever expresses.

• 1:34:59David Sims?

  But he's surrounded by people who talk too much. Like, everyone's always fucking talking too much.

• 1:35:02Griffin Newman?

  There's a part where he talks about, uh, uh, who is, oh, when he hires the new barber to replace a Balalushi, once he starts pulling the cork, right? And he says, I hired this guy because he seemed quiet like me, but it turned out he was just nervous at the interview. Just another gabbler, right? There's this, this term of like, it's just another guy who wants to talk all the fucking time. And his disappointment at realizing that this guy's another one of those, right? And, and yet he talks so much about him meeting Doris, his wife, and immediately throwing this connection. And him being embarrassed that he couldn't speak to her and her saying, it's fine, I'll do the talking. This sense of like, there being a balance there, right?

• 1:35:45Griffin Newman?

  And when he has the moment where his life is flashing before his eyes in the car after he's rebuked.

• 1:35:50David Sims?

  Right. He seems pretty happy in that memory.

• 1:35:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes. He says, my life flashes before my eyes and the memory he goes to is basically this one kind of innocuous exchange they had. Chris McDonald as a door to door salesman, who he kind of didn't have the social acumen to send away. And Frances McDormand was able to cut out and neutralize. And then she sits on the couch and they don't know what to say to each other. And you kind of feel her waiting for him to say anything, right? That they rushed into this marriage, I know everything I need to know about you, but you kind of get the sense, I think, that she thought at some moment, he was going to be able to give her something that at some point would open up, right?

• 1:36:31Griffin Newman?

  And even the moments of recognition, what he reveals, when he's making the defense to Shalub, you know, there's the scene where he confesses basically to Shalub to everything he did. And Shalub responds as, that's an interesting legal strategy, assuming that he is making up a yarn. To be able to take the heat off of his wife and Shalhoub's kind of giving it a test

• 1:36:51David Sims?

  He's like, huh, yeah, I can see how that would work.

• 1:36:54Speaker 04

  And she seems touched.

• 1:36:56Griffin Newman?

  She seems touched and yet part of that is him revealing that he knew she was having an affair because a husband just knows and that he caught it and he did it and you see the look on her face of her kind of wanting to apologize for hurting him and yet being like, this happened because you don't fucking touch me. You don't talk to me. You don't hear me. He's not inherently a bad guy or a dispassionate guy or well, he is dispassionate to a fault. To a fault. That is his core issue.

• 1:37:22Speaker 04

  This is probably a great opportunity to talk about something that never dawned on me, but is a widely accepted theory among many people.

• 1:37:29Griffin Newman?

  I want to fold this in.

• 1:37:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, fold it in, fold it in.

• 1:37:31Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so I didn't know this was a big read and I was, I was finding a lot of this as I was looking at like Letterboxd logs and reviews and all, different pieces over the last, since last night, right? Tracy, like what are people's reads on this movie? And a lot of people read it as he's a closeted gay man in a time who could never come to terms with that himself. He perhaps is not even cognizant enough to know.

• 1:37:51David Sims?

  It's not, well, he, he knows a pass gets made because when Palito makes a pass to him, he's like, was that a pass? That's not, I'm all business. And that I feel like is Way out of line. Right. If you're like, okay, that's what this movie's about. That's where you're like, yes, okay. He clearly, there's something demonstrative about where he's like, I am going to not have sex with this guy to prove the point that I am definitely not gay.

• 1:38:17Griffin Newman?

  But also Gandolfini responds to that by beating this guy to death. You know what I'm saying? Like it is a movie in which you expect him to react in a more extreme way. And he just kind of goes like, was that a pass? I'm not here to have sex. How do I give you money? You know, like there's a little bit of that feeling.

• 1:38:34Speaker 04

  I would be very curious to know how, first of all, was this in Joel and Ethan's mind when they were writing this and? Or if they, I sometimes feel with their work, they are, they oftentimes are allowing, they know that, oh, people are going to interpret this all kinds of ways.

• 1:38:51Griffin Newman?

  They don't.

• 1:38:52Speaker 04

  Great. And they just move on.

• 1:38:53Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 1:38:53Speaker 04

  So they might just be like, yeah, hey, like it might've been after that, they might say, hey, some people are going to think he's gay. Great. Let's, let's talk about the sex.

• 1:39:00Griffin Newman?

  There's three, there's three big moments, right? It's the Polito moment. It's obviously the recognition of we have not had the sex act in several years and is Scarlett Johansson attempting to give him a sexual favor.

• 1:39:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, but she's.

• 1:39:11Griffin Newman?

  Kind of out of this.

• 1:39:12Speaker 04

  But she's also like 16.

• 1:39:14Griffin Newman?

  She's 16.

• 1:39:15Speaker 04

  He, we should applaud him for rebuking her.

• 1:39:17Griffin Newman?

  He has like a very like, what are you talking about? Kind of response. It's the most animated he gets by anything in the film.

• 1:39:23Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 1:39:23Griffin Newman?

  Is stopping her from going down on him. Right? And she's doing it out of this sense of you've done me a kindness. I owe you the favor to repay you, but also what I think is being, what is unspoken in that scene is Scarlett Johansson's assumption that must be why you were doing this the whole time. It's not just, I feel like I owe you this. I assume if my father's stoic older friend starts wanting to give me a fucking career setup.

• 1:39:51David Sims?

  Must be, I need to essentially.

• 1:39:53Griffin Newman?

  And if I've gone along with it this far, I understand the agreement. That's what I'm trying to do. And his reaction is like, what? How could you possibly read it that way?

• 1:39:59David Sims?

  Well.

• 1:40:00Griffin Newman?

  He's more.

• 1:40:01David Sims?

  Heaven's to Betsy, he says.

• 1:40:02Griffin Newman?

  Right. But he physically recalls in a way that causes the car to crash.

• 1:40:06David Sims?

  It does, but it feels, it does feel a little performative. Like I do think he does, or like, much like with Polito, like it's like, I mean, and again, look, I don't want to, like Jordan's saying, I do feel like the cones are like, look, make of it what you will. But both times it feels like he's like, no, I am not here for a pass. And with Scar Joe, he's like, I'm not here for a blowjob. And I'm like, I think you wanted to see if that one was coming.

• 1:40:30Griffin Newman?

  I think he is obviously hyper fixated on her in a way that he cannot process. This is that era. Well, yeah, cause this is Ghost World and this are the same year.

• 1:40:39Speaker 04

  So she was probably not 18.

• 1:40:40Griffin Newman?

  Cause she's only like 18 in Lost in Translation. She's so young in Lost in Translation. It is bizarre, right?

• 1:40:48David Sims?

  Uh, yeah. Um, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:51Speaker 04

  She was pretty damn.

• 1:40:52Griffin Newman?

  Born in nineteen eighty four.

• 1:40:53David Sims?

  She's like two years older than me.

• 1:40:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, so she would have been like. Nineteen when Lost Translation comes out. She's like seventeen. When they shot it. Right when this movie comes out. I think she maybe turns eighteen when they're filming. Yeah. But yes, she's actually a teenager in this film. It is bizarre to watch her at this age now that we're just like twenty five years later and she's apparently the biggest Fox star of all time. This is, this is the year where she.

• 1:41:11Speaker 04

  Ghost World came out in two thousand and four, right?

• 1:41:12David Sims?

  This was the Ghost World year where it was like, oh shit, like the, the Horse Whisperer girl is like gonna be a star.

• 1:41:19Speaker 04

  Manny and Low, Manny and Low was before this.

• 1:41:22David Sims?

  I never saw Manny and Low.

• 1:41:23Speaker 04

  Manny and Low is great.

• 1:41:24Griffin Newman?

  Sure. Let me continue to try to lay these bricks, okay? I think she's recognizing that he has some obsession with her. It is driving him, right? But we're also living in this guy's internal monologue. I think this is him being as honest as he can possibly be. And I think in the same way that like, if he's gay, it's something he has not worked through. He is almost in denial of whatever sexual attraction he has going on here in the same way that he's still, in my opinion, loves his wife. And I think she would love for her to touch him and he cannot explain why he is not doing it.

• 1:41:57David Sims?

  That's a solid, I get that.

• 1:41:59Griffin Newman?

  I, I think.

• 1:42:00David Sims?

  But I don't, okay.

• 1:42:01Griffin Newman?

  I think it's, it's why this title for me is the right title of the film, right? Is there was a core emptiness to this guy that I think is both, uh, an analysis of, A, the archetypes of the types of guys at the center of these types of noir stories. These sort of like hardened men who have seen it all and get a bad shake, you know? All the, the tragedies pile up on top of them and they maintain this stoic face. And you're like, well, that's a psychopath, right? Who can just sort of like smoke a cigarette and make a pithy comment and move along and walk off into the rain. You know, part of this is, this is very much a post-war movie of men being defined and Gandolfini is a character who has lied about his service, right?

• 1:42:42Griffin Newman?

  That men are defined by either you didn't go and you live with deep insecurity about the fact that you seem as less of a man because you didn't serve because of your fear, your physical.

• 1:42:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:42:52Griffin Newman?

  Shortcomings or whatever it is.

• 1:42:53Speaker 04

  And he goes, that's a tough break, kid, fallen arch.

• 1:42:55Griffin Newman?

  Or you served in the war and something broke inside of you psychologically and emotionally. Now you have to just go back and cut children's hair and act like everything's okay.

• 1:43:02Speaker 04

  Or be a total drunk like Richard Jenkins.

• 1:43:04Griffin Newman?

  Right. You just can't fucking work through it anymore. And here's this guy where it's just like, I think the gay reading comes from, and obviously sexuality is the thing that keeps coming up in this movie in an interesting way. Of just like, there's something that feels unsolved in this guy that he cannot figure out. He is holding something within him. And so it's obvious to go like, what is his secret that he, that is animating him that we are not solving? And but I think this movie is about the unsolvability of this guy, which is like, the great tragedy of his life is, he can't fucking say what he wants. He cannot express what he wants. He does not know what he wants. Our friend Jordan Fish, who was a recent guest on the episode, his Letterboxd log was, now I'm watching this film, my biggest takeaway is,

• 1:43:44Griffin Newman?

  he loves his wife so much that this is a movie of like a tragedy of a guy who like literally just can't say it.

• 1:43:51Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:43:52Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:43:52Speaker 04

  He's a wife guy.

• 1:43:53Griffin Newman?

  Can't say it in his actions, can't say it in his words, like any of it.

• 1:43:56Speaker 04

  I do, I, I think the, the fact that he's such a conundrum is the Heisenberg kernel of the film. The more you look for facts, what does Tony Shalhoub say is like, um, and it's what you started the podcast with the quote from. If you, if you look for something, yeah, if you look for the facts, you'll find they don't mean anything. And I find that to be rather profound. However, I could see a Coens critic saying, ah, you know, gimme, that's a whack off type thing to say, like, you know, ah, if you look to, if you try to understand it, you never will. Like, I could sort of see a critic condemning the Coens, like, ah, those tricksters, they're so smart, their head's up their ass. They made a movie that if you try to figure it out, that's the point that you can't figure it out.

• 1:44:41Speaker 04

  I think this movie has enough juice that you can come correct, as they say, and, and do something this pretzel logic. Like, I think if a lesser director tried to make a movie, it's like, if you try to figure out the main character, it'll break your brain. It's annoying, but I think, I think this actually works.

• 1:44:57Griffin Newman?

  Cause I think it's the point. I think it's about a guy where there's no there there. He's almost like a parody of the criticisms of them, right?

• 1:45:07Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 1:45:08Griffin Newman?

  This is affectation.

• 1:45:09Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:45:09Griffin Newman?

  This is mood, this is energy, this is confidence. But is it just rooted in a sort of like cynical nihilism? Who gives a shit? Right? And you're like, no, it's actually a fairly sympathetic portrayal of a guy who's great curses that he can't fucking care.

• 1:45:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I buy it.

• 1:45:25Griffin Newman?

  You know, I saw someone on Letterboxd say that there is like very much an autistic reading of this movie at a time where you could not diagnose this guy in that way. And that they said, I, I kept thinking while watching this film of Temple Grandin's quote, that making it through daily life makes me feel like I'm an anthropologist on Mars. Right?

• 1:45:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:45:44Griffin Newman?

  Even just the way he talks about these haircuts.

• 1:45:47Speaker 04

  And all that.

• 1:45:47Griffin Newman?

  What do we do with the hair? Do you ever think about what hair is? You know, like all of these weird, broken things inside of him manifest in this way that seems like a cool fucking noir character. And you're like, this guy just literally doesn't know how to be a person.

• 1:46:01Speaker 04

  That's kind of cool. Like, yeah, I mean, forget, I mean, there's the gay read and then it could be the, the asexual reader. Just like you say, he's just, he's, he's, I mean, I don't know if the co- said, let's make a movie about an autistic person, but just somebody who's not on, not vibrating on this plane, you know?

• 1:46:15Griffin Newman?

  David, I feel like you have some.

• 1:46:17David Sims?

  Well, I've just been listening.

• 1:46:19Griffin Newman?

  He had to let me go.

• 1:46:21David Sims?

  He, it's just interesting that there's a film with a narration where the narration, in my opinion, is basically lies and misdirection or just unreliable. And he says lots of stuff and explains nothing. And he does not explain why, like I said, keep pounding. Why he does the thing? Why does he blackmail James Gandolfini?

• 1:46:42Speaker 04

  Well, because.

• 1:46:42David Sims?

  It's an insane thing to do.

• 1:46:45Speaker 04

  It's weird because it doesn't, he doesn't look like he's somebody, what he, when he's describing.

• 1:46:48David Sims?

  He doesn't say, you know, and I finally wanted to get one over on my.

• 1:46:51Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 1:46:51David Sims?

  Or and I finally wanted to be. But he doesn't say that either.

• 1:46:56Speaker 04

  No, no, he, no, no, no, no, no. He does because he says that like he's stuck in a rut. He's the second chair. And he makes it seem as if he were to get a lot of money from being dry cleaning, uh, being Joyce Jefferson. He would, um. Yeah, finally get, it'd be like he's, he'd be on Easy Street. But the thing is like, it's almost like he doesn't covet fancy clothes, cars or houses. Like, what is he going to do with that money if he gets the dry cleaning money?

• 1:47:21David Sims?

  You're, you're.

• 1:47:22Speaker 04

  It's a little bit weird.

• 1:47:23David Sims?

  We don't know what he wants, but I think he is kind of like, do I want? Sex? Do I want money? Do I want my wife to die? He's mad at her. About these things.

• 1:47:36Griffin Newman?

  May I, may I give my read to that specific question?

• 1:47:39David Sims?

  Yeah, please do.

• 1:47:40Griffin Newman?

  I think he is, once again, in a way, he would never be able to work out, even to say internally, right? These are things he could not even admit in an internal model. Like we should mention, as you said, the narration is mostly lies. They reveal at the end of the films that he's writing this for a men's magazine. His entire story is gonna get turned into some tawdry, like, I killed my pregnant wife. Why? Right? Like, he's gonna become tabloid fodder that will then basically probably become a, a highly fictionalized B movie.

• 1:48:09David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:48:10Griffin Newman?

  Right? Like, that's what his story is becoming, and we're seeing the, the tonyest version of it. But I think he thinks he's telling the truth. I think he is explaining stuff as much as he thinks he can. I think this guy has no relationship to himself. And I think he can't explain the, the dry cleaning thing for that reason. I think what is going on, and I tie this back to In No Country, obviously a later film, but the moment of the gas station owner having inherited from his wife, being this moment that Anton Chigurh shows such disdain and terror at, right? And obviously, a lot of the Coen films deal with the sense of different forms of cuckling, right? And, and men being defined by their

• 1:48:53Griffin Newman?

  relationships with their wives, and living in fear of them, or living through them, or all these different things. I think there is this part of Billy Bob where he feels like he is failing his wife by being a man of no ambition, who is stuck at the second chair in a job that her brother handed to him, right? And now her career is about to level up. Now she is about to be even more the breadwinner, and he is like, I am not worthy of her if I am not contributing more to this.

• 1:49:20David Sims?

  This is where you lose me. But it's an interesting read.

• 1:49:24Griffin Newman?

  He already knows his wife is slipping away from him.

• 1:49:26Speaker 04

  But he also says.

• 1:49:27Griffin Newman?

  I don't think he's, I don't think he's putting money into this because he wants to buy her nice things. I think he's putting money into her because he feels like if he doesn't have money, then what the fuck status does he have in this home?

• 1:49:38Speaker 04

  Does he plan to make a fortune?

• 1:49:40David Sims?

  I just don't.

• 1:49:40Speaker 04

  In dry cleaning and then buy her things?

• 1:49:42Griffin Newman?

  He's not incredibly smart.

• 1:49:44Speaker 04

  Well, that's true.

• 1:49:45Griffin Newman?

  It is not a well thought out plan.

• 1:49:46Speaker 04

  No, it's not a good plan.

• 1:49:47David Sims?

  But I just don't buy that he likes his wife as much as you do. I think he kinda hates her.

• 1:49:52Griffin Newman?

  He likes his wife as much as he likes anyone.

• 1:49:54Speaker 04

  That's exactly it. I mean, when he has that death, they've had the death vision of the great scene. He, he's watching her kick. I mean, she's being awesome by telling the salesman to go, go F himself. He doesn't smile and say, good one, hon. He's still as stoic as ever. But you get, you project onto it when he's sitting in that chair, watching her go to town. He's thinking, wow, my wife kicks ass.

• 1:50:14Griffin Newman?

  Also, she seems like an emotionally unregulated woman. And it makes it difficult for him to deal with her, but also she's one of the only people in this sort of vaguely polite picket fence society who like cuts through and says the thing that no one's saying.

• 1:50:28Speaker 04

  She gets drunk at the wedding. She gets drunk at the wedding and, and of, of course, and then tells the woman who's about to get married, how, how marriage sucks.

• 1:50:35Griffin Newman?

  For a guy who like basically doesn't know how to talk, that's what he would want to say.

• 1:50:39Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:50:40Griffin Newman?

  Could put the thoughts together.

• 1:50:41Speaker 04

  And his brother in laws riding a pig and eating blueberry pie.

• 1:50:44Griffin Newman?

  No, like, I don't think his love of his wife is motivated by anything sexual, right?

• 1:50:49Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no.

• 1:50:49Griffin Newman?

  Like, I, I think he is largely an asexual person, but I think he feels a fondness for her that is the closest thing he has to a motivating force in his life. And yet, the whole point of this movie is it's like, why does this guy do anything? What fucking drives him? So many of these noir films are like, why does this guy get fucking tangled up in this mess?

• 1:51:05David Sims?

  Cause they want money. It's always cause they want money, but like.

• 1:51:08Griffin Newman?

  But if he doesn't want money for himself, then who does he want it for?

• 1:51:11David Sims?

  I don't think he wants money. I think he wants to ruin his wife. Like, I, I just don't see it.

• 1:51:16Griffin Newman?

  The opposite way.

• 1:51:16David Sims?

  Right. Cause he, but he makes a decision that's destroying her and then he takes.

• 1:51:22Speaker 04

  Well, he is

• 1:51:22Speaker 03

  Tom pleasure in watching it happen.

• 1:51:24Speaker 04

  He is. He doesn't care for James Gandolfini. That much is clear.

• 1:51:28Speaker 03

  No, he is sort of an offensive creature.

• 1:51:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, he wants, he's not, he's okay to stick it to him. Not, he doesn't want to kill him, but he wants to give him, give him the works, as they say.

• 1:51:38Speaker 03

  Right. I kind of feel like in this type of situation where you find out that your partner is cheating on you, it makes you kind of not think rationally.

• 1:51:47Speaker 04

  But he, he's not finding it out. He knows.

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  He's kind of sense, but it's even, it's so, it's so outrageous that then Gandolfini would talk to him.

• 1:51:59Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:52:00Speaker 03

  Like, because about the hypothetical, that's so obviously.

• 1:52:04Speaker 04

  Right, right. But it's like, everyone doesn't take him very seriously as like.

• 1:52:08Griffin Newman?

  Right. I'm having an affair with a married woman. No one you know is what Gandolfini says to him.

• 1:52:11Speaker 03

  That would make you kind of crazy to like, know that this guy thinks so little of you that he's gonna do, he's gonna disrespect you in this way, right to your face.

• 1:52:22Griffin Newman?

  But this is also the core of sociopathy, right? Like where you hear these accounts of like horrendous crimes and they track down the person and they interrogate them for days. And they just never get to the bottom of like, why did you do this? You know?

• 1:52:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:52:38Griffin Newman?

  And they go through the checklist, like, did you get a sexual satisfaction from it? Is it revenge? Is it power? And sometimes these people just go like, I don't know.

• 1:52:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:47Griffin Newman?

  You know, sometimes these people have a whole fucking system in their head, right? And it all ties together in a logical warped logic, but there is a chain within it. And sometimes people are just like, I don't know, I just started doing it, it just kind of happened.

• 1:53:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:00Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I think about the movie Detour a lot while watching this, which very much feels like a Grimm's fairy tale.

• 1:53:06Speaker 03

  You mean the noir, the noir classic.

• 1:53:08Griffin Newman?

  Right? And that is a movie where a guy who isn't that smart and isn't that interesting, just keeps on fucking stepping further and further into shit. And at times it starts to feel like the character is supernatural, right? Like mild spoilers, the guy seems to like murder people by accident.

• 1:53:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:53:24Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:53:24Speaker 03

  He is.

• 1:53:25Griffin Newman?

  What is almost like Final Destination style setup, suddenly like phone cords become tied around people's necks and they die.

• 1:53:31David Sims?

  Right. I mean, that movie was was kind of like, right. That was like very dark, even for the noirs of the era or whatever. Yes.

• 1:53:39Griffin Newman?

  But it that's a movie where this guy is just trying to fucking outrun this thing that you know is going to catch up to him.

• 1:53:44David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:53:44Griffin Newman?

  It is so fascinating that the structure of this movie is basically every time he does something terrible or something terrible happens in his vicinity. Almost immediately, someone shows up and like hand delivers him a mulligan.

• 1:53:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:53:56Griffin Newman?

  Like a white glove.

• 1:53:57Speaker 04

  When the cops come to tell him the news that she's been arrested.

• 1:54:00Griffin Newman?

  He's ready to confess.

• 1:54:01Speaker 04

  He's he's as well. I guess we're going downtown. I'm like, what?

• 1:54:03Griffin Newman?

  You see it on his face. The second they walk through the door, it's over.

• 1:54:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:54:07Griffin Newman?

  And he's not going to fight it. You can tell, I think, on his face that he's about to tell them everything.

• 1:54:13Speaker 04

  Right. And also, he didn't. He only killed Gandolfini by accident. I mean, he did kill him, but he was being strangled. He was about to die.

• 1:54:21David Sims?

  Want to kill.

• 1:54:23Speaker 04

  And he happens to have that.

• 1:54:24David Sims?

  He's not looking to murder.

• 1:54:25Speaker 04

  No, he happens to have that that thing.

• 1:54:27David Sims?

  The cigar cutter.

• 1:54:28Speaker 04

  I think he would have been just as happy.

• 1:54:30Griffin Newman?

  Which they go, that's a lady's weapon. And he's like, it's a cigar cutter. It belonged to the guy.

• 1:54:34Speaker 04

  Right, right, right.

• 1:54:35Griffin Newman?

  And they're like, no, it looks like some lady shit.

• 1:54:36Speaker 04

  But he would have loved to have got him in a less lethal spot. Had he punched Gandolfini in the cheek? And Gandolfini have stepped back and then they would have taken a breath. He would have been just as happy. He didn't mean to kill him, but he got him in the carotid artery and and thus the story progresses.

• 1:54:53David Sims?

  Right. But I mean, but he more wants to humiliate him, like publicly or whatever privately, but he wants to humiliate.

• 1:55:01Speaker 04

  Can I mention now the second line that plays in my head all the time from this movie, other than my wife and I have not performed the sex act in years? Which, by the way, my wife and I performed the sex act plenty of times. Don't don't don't worry about that. But the the the other line, and I actually find it to be quite quite touching, is Badalucia. What is how do you pronounce his last name?

• 1:55:21David Sims?

  Michael Badalucia.

• 1:55:22Speaker 04

  Badalucia. When when the trials go on off the rails and he says, is this procedure? Such a strange line reading because he's new to the court system and he's and earlier he's like, don't don't let these rich guys fool you. They're just like us. They put their pants on one leg at a time. They use the toilet just like I said. You know, it's a great moment. And then he's like, Ed, is this what happens? And Ed doesn't say anything because he doesn't know. Ed, Ed, is this procedure? And I find that, you know, we all think of like. God forbid, we should ever be in court. But you do think that when you're doing something real professional, like a medical thing or courtroom thing, like it's going to be by the book. And it never is. Like if you're ever going to get your tonsils out, you would think, all right, like, you

• 1:56:07Speaker 04

  know, you go to, you go to a medical thing and it's like, oh, we're going to text, we're going to text you to have you come into the next room. It's like text. What from text? I mean, the, the, years ago, there was no text. This is how it's done. Is this procedure?

• 1:56:20Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:56:21Speaker 04

  That's how I feel constantly in life. Is this procedure?

• 1:56:23Griffin Newman?

  Is this procedure?

• 1:56:24Speaker 04

  Shouldn't this be? You know, I recently, I recently moved to New Jersey. I had to change my-

• 1:56:29Griffin Newman?

  Congratulations. You held for applause.

• 1:56:30Speaker 04

  I recently, do you want to, Ben, yeah, Ben's going to applaud. He loves New Jersey. Grandparents used to live in Point Pleasant, which is a great spot.

• 1:56:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Lovely town.

• 1:56:39Speaker 04

  Just changing your Verizon account, just changing, you would think, well, what's this thing? You know, the-

• 1:56:46David Sims?

  What you're referring to is the enshitting of modern life, I will say.

• 1:56:51Speaker 04

  Well, this movie was written in modern times, you know, Batalutti's character's representative of the past, but I think he, he speaks to me in the now.

• 1:56:58Griffin Newman?

  Well, but-

• 1:56:59Speaker 04

  Geico is the frigging company. You would think I was the first person ever to move from New York to New Jersey and get my, it's so complicated. It's so, you have to have four, you know, I'm going to tell you something, you're going to fall out of that very-

• 1:57:11Griffin Newman?

  Do you want to burn this entire chunk right now? Cause I know you're working on a comedy dynamic special, move into New Jersey.

• 1:57:17David Sims?

  To speak to Batalutti's character.

• 1:57:19Speaker 04

  Well, I gotta, I gotta talk about Geico real quick.

• 1:57:21Griffin Newman?

  No, you don't.

• 1:57:23Speaker 04

  Because this is what, you can't just say, hey, Geico, I moved-

• 1:57:26Griffin Newman?

  David's taking out a cigar cutter.

• 1:57:27Speaker 04

  No, no, this is so quick. This is so quick. You can't just say, hi, guys, Hoffman here. Geico, how you doing? I moved to New York, New Jersey. Okay, bye. No.

• 1:57:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:37Speaker 04

  You have to officially change your, the license plates and go to the DMV. Wait, wait, no, this is the funny part. This is the funny part. You have to call Geico 10 minutes before you go to the DMV. I'm serious. He says to me on the phone, call me back when you're about to walk into the DMV. You have to do it the morning of. Why can't I do it after? No, no, no. You could get a penalty. So why can't I do it two weeks before I go? Why do I have to do it like a maniac in the parking lot of the DMV? Do it right before you go.

• 1:58:07David Sims?

  I'm going to throw a bottle at you.

• 1:58:08Speaker 04

  No, it's true.

• 1:58:09David Sims?

  I don't care. I want to talk about the movie.

• 1:58:11Speaker 04

  But is this procedure?

• 1:58:13David Sims?

  It's like procedure.

• 1:58:14Speaker 04

  That's what it was. It's insane.

• 1:58:15David Sims?

  If I can speak to Bottaluccio's character, I had night thought 15 minutes ago about the movie.

• 1:58:21Speaker 04

  Yeah. All right.

• 1:58:21David Sims?

  Shut up, Jordan.

• 1:58:25David Sims?

  Bottaluccio's character is a guy, he the boss at the barbershop who has hit his spot in society and is like, I am so happy here. Right? And all he does all day is talk defensively about how great it is to be exactly him. Right? You know, it's like, yep, this is where I gotta be, right? No higher, no lower, small business owner, one employee. That's it. I own the store. And there's a tragedy to what happens to him, which is he gives away everything to protect his sister who is, you know, he shouldn't do that. But there's also something, again with Ed Crane, where you're like, Ed Crane clearly is like, I can't stand this fucking guy.

• 1:59:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:59:05David Sims?

  Right? Like, and I hate that he thinks, he doesn't say it.

• 1:59:08Griffin Newman?

  Now, maybe if you're 11 or 12 years old, Frank's got an interesting point of view, but sometimes he got on my nerves.

• 1:59:13David Sims?

  Right. I hate that he thinks like this is, you know, whatever, the best you can get. So that also comes close to an explanation for why Ed is like, maybe I should try to get some dry cleaning money. Like, maybe I should just get like, why Ed is sort of so disdainful quietly of all the normal people around him. And this speaks to sociopathy or whatever, a sort of antisocial kind of feeling that he's not really expressing. But. That's all. Just like Battle Luchu is kind of like a quiet, like little.

• 1:59:46Speaker 04

  I mean, if you had to work with that guy all day, maybe he would.

• 1:59:48David Sims?

  Yeah, he would drive you fucking nuts, of course.

• 1:59:51Speaker 04

  You know, blackmail James.

• 1:59:52Griffin Newman?

  But all of his lines that sound like kind of cool stylized, like funny dialogue, when you actually look at the text, them are just like, I don't understand these people, right? Like, I'm confused by behavior, basically. And I was, I'm looking at some of the quotes here, but like, the line where he talks about him and Doris getting married, he said, you know, I think her line was, I know you as well as I'm ever going to. And she's right. She was right. You know, this notion of the relationship never got deeper from that moment. This feeling of like absolute confusion, even the opening lines of the film are him talking about like, the other people, right? They're going about their day and I'm holding a secret.

• 2:00:31Speaker 04

  And there are all those shots in the car of him just watching passersby, like, like an anthropologist on Mars. Yeah.

• 2:00:36Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. This like absolute confusion at it. As we're saying, things keep lining up for him so well, right? Absolutely like in sync with tragedy, that it feels like is cosmically this guy like blessed in some way. Like, why is this the luckiest man in the world who keeps fucking dodging the car?

• 2:00:55David Sims?

  To the extent that at the end of the movie, aliens tried to abduct him and he's like, no, I don't think so.

• 2:01:01Griffin Newman?

  But also, that happens after he has now gotten pinned with the one thing he didn't do. What takes him down, what sends him to the electric chair, what makes the aliens decide that he's not worthy of their time, that they don't give a shit, he's not worth studying, right? There's just nothing really going on here, is that it's like, the one thing I didn't do ends up being the thing that sends me to death. And I'm just sort of like, I don't really know what's on the other side of this.

• 2:01:26Speaker 04

  And he doesn't see, well, in a way, I'm, I was about to say, he doesn't really seem to mind that. He, in a way, is saying, maybe it'll be better.

• 2:01:32David Sims?

  He's definitely like, that'll be a place where things will make sense.

• 2:01:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, he's kind of, he, the last line is actually very touching. He says, I'm gonna be able to say something to Doris that they didn't have words for here or something like that.

• 2:01:43David Sims?

  It's touching and also psychotic.

• 2:01:44Griffin Newman?

  But it's what I, why I think this film is a weirdly emotionally sincere film, because it is like, a sympathetic tragedy about a psychopath.

• 2:01:52David Sims?

  Maybe not a psychopath, but someone who is struggling with whatever, interacting with human people.

• 2:01:58Speaker 04

  A little meshug.

• 2:01:58Griffin Newman?

  And I think it speaks to the like Scarlett Johansson thing where he's just like, I don't know, something's animating me here. I gotta keep going here. Do you want a blowjob? No. What are you talking about? Right? She has that speech where she tries to give him the gift of being like, you know, they're people like you. They're like patrons of the arts. What's the line she uses?

• 2:02:14David Sims?

  You're saying it. I mean, I don't.

• 2:02:16Griffin Newman?

  Like she's almost trying to give him like, here you go. Here's your label. Here's what you do. I know you're.

• 2:02:21Speaker 04

  You're an enthusiast.

• 2:02:22Griffin Newman?

  You're an enthusiast.

• 2:02:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, which is.

• 2:02:24Griffin Newman?

  I know you're confounded about the fact that nothing drives you. Maybe this can be it, right? But in exchange for what? And then he goes and sends her to the expert and the expert's like, nothing. And he's like, she's bad? And it's like, no, it's just, there's like nothing. And she's like, a girl plays piano well.

• 2:02:41David Sims?

  Yeah. And the expert, of course, played by the chubby ring guy from Bowfinger. Love that guy.

• 2:02:46Griffin Newman?

  Who has transitioned?

• 2:02:48Speaker 04

  There's another.

• 2:02:49Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 2:02:49Speaker 04

  Okay. There's another, there's another parallel universe in this movie, which has a happy ending, which is he accepts the blowjob from the underage girl and he learns to love life.

• 2:03:00Griffin Newman?

  And the car doesn't crash.

• 2:03:01Speaker 04

  The car doesn't crash. He's like, wow, blowjobs from Scarlett Johansson are terrific. I love life. And, and the movie ends and then it goes into color.

• 2:03:08Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:03:08Speaker 04

  And then everybody's happy.

• 2:03:10Griffin Newman?

  But there's also no takeaway from that scene. Movie goes into color. Age of Aquarius place.

• 2:03:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03:16Griffin Newman?

  There's no takeaway from that scene where he leaves that room and is like, fuck it. They're wrong. I know you're a star. We're driving to New York City. I'm getting you on the Ed Sullivan Show, right? Where he's a guy who's now fanatically devoted to proving everyone wrong and like, you know, fucking Colonel Tom Parker-ing her into what she needs to be.

• 2:03:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:35Griffin Newman?

  It just feels like he's like, I don't know, is this the answer? And they're like, no, that's nothing. And he's like, fuck, then I got nothing.

• 2:03:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, that's funny.

• 2:03:42Griffin Newman?

  Right? And like, my life flashes before my eyes and the one thing I regret most is not saying to my wife, hey, thanks for that. You know, or like, good job out there with Christopher McDonald.

• 2:03:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's shocking this movie wasn't a hit.

• 2:03:56David Sims?

  I was about to say, no wonder that it was not that well attended.

• 2:04:00Griffin Newman?

  But I just get back to the Billy Bob Thornton thing where you're like, is this guy like a pill? Or is he a genius? Is he like completely out of touch with himself or more in touch with himself than anyone else?

• 2:04:10David Sims?

  Where he ever sort of spoke to these ideas? It was on Canadian Public Radio or anything.

• 2:04:16Griffin Newman?

  I don't know if you've seen the fits he has thrown at the recent Landman premieres.

• 2:04:20David Sims?

  No, I will say I have not been checking in with his.

• 2:04:23Griffin Newman?

  He looks at Captain Jack Sparrow on crystal meth.

• 2:04:25David Sims?

  Cool.

• 2:04:25Griffin Newman?

  Wow. He is like.

• 2:04:27David Sims?

  Oh, wait, to be clear, that doesn't actually sound cool. I don't think I want Captain Jack Sparrow to start. That sounds cool.

• 2:04:34Griffin Newman?

  Google Billy Bob Landman premiere.

• 2:04:36Speaker 04

  Is it still season one of Landman?

• 2:04:38David Sims?

  Season two is about to debut in the fall.

• 2:04:41Speaker 04

  Oh, so I got time. I'm going in on Landman.

• 2:04:43David Sims?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 2:04:44Speaker 04

  I'm gonna be your landman.

• 2:04:45David Sims?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:04:46Griffin Newman?

  You're seeing.

• 2:04:47David Sims?

  It's interesting because again, on Landman, he's just like a guy with glasses and a button down. But yes, he is kind of giving like, you know, male, Andy DeFranco or whatever.

• 2:04:57Griffin Newman?

  Wow. He's, he's making late stage Johnny Depp look minimal.

• 2:05:01David Sims?

  His beard looks like. Huge. He's got like a hat on top of a Kangol hat.

• 2:05:06Griffin Newman?

  And like the, the most.

• 2:05:08Speaker 04

  That looks like, um, that looks like, uh, Aquaman. What the hell's Aquaman's name? Momoa? He looks like a deflated Momoa there.

• 2:05:15Griffin Newman?

  All of these guys.

• 2:05:16David Sims?

  It is the biggest earring too. And a big earring and a lot of chains. And I don't mean chains like Ben chains, like a lot of, you know, peace and love and dog tags. What a weirdo.

• 2:05:26Griffin Newman?

  I find the WTF interview very interesting because he talks so much about how defensive he is. Right? And that his attitude has always just been like, I don't care. I shut it all down. I'm me. And then you're just like, this guy is so hair trigger, right? He cannot find peace within himself.

• 2:05:43Speaker 04

  He needs to get Ed Crane in his life.

• 2:05:44Griffin Newman?

  He's the opposite of Ed Crane and that like, he cares too much about everything all the time.

• 2:05:48Speaker 04

  He's the man who's everywhere.

• 2:05:49Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:05:50Speaker 04

  The man who was there.

• 2:05:51Griffin Newman?

  Did you know he was married five times before Jolie?

• 2:05:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:55Speaker 04

  No, I didn't.

• 2:05:56Griffin Newman?

  Five before Jolie.

• 2:05:57Speaker 04

  Was he married or dating anyone other in the public eye other than Jolie?

• 2:06:01Griffin Newman?

  He was in a years long relationship with Laura Dern, who he left for Angelina Jolie. And then after Angelina Jolie, he said, I'm never going to get married again. And he ended up getting married to the woman he's been with for the last 20 plus years. He met up.

• 2:06:16David Sims?

  Connie England, who's a makeup.

• 2:06:17Griffin Newman?

  She is the adopted daughter of Walter Murch. And she is often credited as a makeup artist, but she was primarily like a special effects puppeteer. She worked on a lot of the fucking Full Moon pictures. She worked on like Puppet Master and Pre-Astaria. She seems like similarly odd and driven by her own interests.

• 2:06:37Speaker 04

  Can you imagine what their home is like?

• 2:06:39Griffin Newman?

  I cannot.

• 2:06:40Speaker 04

  It must have, and then, you know.

• 2:06:41David Sims?

  I think it's normal.

• 2:06:42Speaker 04

  No, I think their basement is like, is the greatest Halloween basement of all.

• 2:06:46Griffin Newman?

  I think they have a well decorated house.

• 2:06:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:49Griffin Newman?

  Um, but I just think there's an interesting kinda like thing between the two, the character and the actor here.

• 2:06:55Speaker 04

  Did, has, he, he doesn't really direct, like Sling Blade, he wrote and directed and One False Movie, he wrote, but Carl Franklin directed.

• 2:07:02Griffin Newman?

  Right. And All the Pretty Horses. And then he did the aforementioned Daddy and Them, and he did a film called Jane Mansfield's Car, and both of those barely got released. Both of those are kind of southern dramedy ensemble pieces.

• 2:07:14Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:07:15Griffin Newman?

  It's not about Jane Mansfield.

• 2:07:16David Sims?

  No, but there's a car she may have once owned or something.

• 2:07:19Speaker 04

  I said, well, that I would not want that car.

• 2:07:21David Sims?

  Oh, it's the car that she died in.

• 2:07:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, that's of all the cars, it's the one you don't want.

• 2:07:24Griffin Newman?

  That film's 20 years ago?

• 2:07:26Speaker 04

  Yeah. So he stopped.

• 2:07:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:28Speaker 04

  You'd think he's.

• 2:07:28Griffin Newman?

  He stopped.

• 2:07:29Speaker 04

  And he writes, he fucking put out 17 albums. I mean, Jesus. That's true. No wonder he was angry. He put out 17 albums. Yeah, listen to us.

• 2:07:37Griffin Newman?

  You're like, he's kind of the king of these shows where you're like, who's watching that? But also apparently everyone's watching it and he's got a fucking mantle full of awards.

• 2:07:45David Sims?

  Landman is the, uh, is the true hit, but Goliath, yeah, was.

• 2:07:49Griffin Newman?

  Goliath was something of a hit. I, I mean.

• 2:07:52David Sims?

  And obviously he was good on Fargo, like, you know, playing a sociopath, like playing a crazy killer man.

• 2:07:57Speaker 04

  You know, he, he was in a very bad movie, um, uh, with Shia LaBeouf called.

• 2:08:03David Sims?

  Eagle Eye.

• 2:08:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's good in that.

• 2:08:05David Sims?

  Of course, he's the guy who says you're in a mess of trouble.

• 2:08:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:08:08David Sims?

  That's like what he does.

• 2:08:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, that movie is so bad, but he was so good in that, that I've actually watched that movie a few times.

• 2:08:14Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing he stopped doing because of the TV work.

• 2:08:17Speaker 04

  He doesn't need to.

• 2:08:18Griffin Newman?

  Or he always used to talk about that he would do the things that animated him, right? Coen Brothers movie, he'd write his own thing and his agent would go, it's been three years since you've been in a movie that's advertised at a bus stop. And he'd show up and he'd be.

• 2:08:30Speaker 04

  In Eagle Eye.

• 2:08:31Griffin Newman?

  That you're in a big world of trouble.

• 2:08:33David Sims?

  You're in a big mess of trouble, son. Now.

• 2:08:35Griffin Newman?

  Right. And now he just like does the one thing.

• 2:08:37Speaker 04

  Do you remember who directed Eagle Eye?

• 2:08:39Griffin Newman?

  Do you?

• 2:08:39Speaker 04

  I can't remember. Yeah, I was gonna say, what's that guy up to?

• 2:08:42David Sims?

  He made the triple X movie, right? The, the third triple X movie.

• 2:08:45Griffin Newman?

  Excellent. I want to say.

• 2:08:46David Sims?

  Triple excellent.

• 2:08:47Griffin Newman?

  It's triple excellent. It's the best of the trilogy, easily.

• 2:08:50David Sims?

  That is true. He has made three movies since then. Redeeming Love, a Christian movie.

• 2:08:54Griffin Newman?

  Base movies. I was gonna say.

• 2:08:55David Sims?

  One of them was at least Shut In, which is sort of like a thriller that didn't seem to go anywhere. And then yeah, another religious movie, Mary, about.

• 2:09:02Speaker 04

  So his eagle eye is his, is his, is his masterpiece.

• 2:09:05David Sims?

  And it looks like Anthony Hopkins was in the one. I bet he was working real hard. The film came out November 2nd, 2001 in limited release, but this is to speak to the sort of, you know, the box office offerings of the time. I want to note that while this movie was not a big hit, it's opening the same weekend in limited releases Amelie. And Amelie was a movie that obviously post nine 11, America was like, we like this whimsy, please.

• 2:09:34Griffin Newman?

  And, you know, was like, the film that broke box office records in Europe in 2000, you know, it took a long time to come to the States.

• 2:09:43David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:43Griffin Newman?

  And then it landed at just the right moment and just the right climate.

• 2:09:47David Sims?

  I need a French pixie to tell me how to live right now.

• 2:09:50Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:09:50David Sims?

  And then like Billy.

• 2:09:50Griffin Newman?

  Clean the house.

• 2:09:52David Sims?

  And people like, no. Where's the French pixie? Now, number one at the box office this weekend, Griffin, is an animated film that is good. We have remarked upon its possibly deleterious effects on animation.

• 2:10:06Griffin Newman?

  It's called Monsters.

• 2:10:06David Sims?

  As a whole.

• 2:10:07Griffin Newman?

  It was a monstersing. And is also cited as one of the first big nine 11, post nine 11 hits.

• 2:10:14David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:10:14Griffin Newman?

  It has a huge opening weekend.

• 2:10:16David Sims?

  Sixty two million dollars.

• 2:10:17Griffin Newman?

  And the Pixar folks were like, we thought the film was good. It was tracking well, but then it kind of like wildly overperformed. And there was this feeling of like, oh, this is exactly what people want.

• 2:10:27Speaker 04

  I paid to see it.

• 2:10:28Griffin Newman?

  Now.

• 2:10:28Speaker 04

  You know, it's funny. I, I mentioned that my wife and I first met right around this time period that we, we, I remember the first time I ever saw. The trailer for Monsters Inc. was like one of the first dates with my wife, with whom I have the sex act, perform the sex act.

• 2:10:43David Sims?

  Starting to get a little Lady Doth protest.

• 2:10:45Speaker 04

  It's not, it's not much of a performance.

• 2:10:49Speaker 04

  We, we performed the sex act and, and, and early on we did it more frequently. And, and I remember going to see at the Zig Field, may she rest in peace. We went to Zig Field and saw Funny Girl, they had a re-

• 2:10:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:10:59Speaker 04

  And, and we saw the trailer for Monsters Inc. and we'd been dating for two weeks. And I'm like dying at the trailer because Mike Wazowski and Sully-

• 2:11:07Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 2:11:07Speaker 04

  Dying at the trailer. I go like, I can't wait to see that.

• 2:11:10Griffin Newman?

  Mike was asking a bit of a spiritual animal for you.

• 2:11:12Speaker 04

  I love Mike. I love Monsters Inc. The sequel, which was a prequel, not so good.

• 2:11:16Griffin Newman?

  I like it quite a bit.

• 2:11:17Speaker 04

  I've only seen it once.

• 2:11:18Griffin Newman?

  But Monsters Inc. is fucking five star.

• 2:11:21Speaker 04

  It's very good.

• 2:11:22David Sims?

  I've seen it a billion times.

• 2:11:22Speaker 04

  So I applaud it being number one at the box office and I, I think it should have been. Thank you.

• 2:11:26Griffin Newman?

  Uh, what did it open to 50 or 60?

• 2:11:28David Sims?

  62 million dollars in 2001.

• 2:11:31Griffin Newman?

  That was one of the bigger, I think that was one of the 10 biggest openings of all time at that point?

• 2:11:35David Sims?

  Well, I don't know. And we'll never know. Uh, number two at the box office is a science fiction action film starring a major star who is sort of trying to cross over into American stardom. It is James Wong's film, The One, starring Jet Li and Jason Statham. Jason Statham's kind of the two in that one.

• 2:11:57Griffin Newman?

  You don't want to be the two in the one. I'll tell you that.

• 2:12:00David Sims?

  It's sort of like Highlander with like dimensions.

• 2:12:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:12:03Speaker 04

  I've never seen The One.

• 2:12:04Griffin Newman?

  It's multiverse Highlander.

• 2:12:06David Sims?

  It's one, it's like, like almost every Jet Li Hollywood movie, there's stuff, but it doesn't quite make sense.

• 2:12:12Griffin Newman?

  The premise on paper, like just if someone hands you a slip of paper and it says Jet Li has to travel across the multiverse, killing other versions of himself.

• 2:12:21Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:12:22Griffin Newman?

  So he can absorb their power.

• 2:12:24Speaker 04

  Oh, that sounds good.

• 2:12:25Griffin Newman?

  The more of them he kills, the more powerful he becomes. You're like, great. And you're like, congrats, $5 million, we're buying you pitch.

• 2:12:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:12:31Griffin Newman?

  You open up the, the fucking final draft. You're like, what is this? What, how do you write this movie? Like you feel it where you're like, the premise is so good and there's kind of no good way to dramatize it.

• 2:12:41David Sims?

  It's got some cool stuff in it.

• 2:12:42Griffin Newman?

  It's got some cool stuff in it.

• 2:12:43David Sims?

  It's, uh, James Wong's follow up to Final Destination 2. Um, made 43 million in the US. Not a, you know, did okay. Um, and it indeed, it does have a young Statham back when he was like a true martial artist. Number three, also new, these are all new this week, is a thriller. Starring actors. And, you know.

• 2:13:05Griffin Newman?

  Two thousand one thriller. Is it domestic disturbance?

• 2:13:07David Sims?

  Thank you. I just somehow knew you needed nothing.

• 2:13:11Griffin Newman?

  I can tell you why.

• 2:13:12David Sims?

  Travolta in his shoulder-ish length.

• 2:13:15Griffin Newman?

  No, I think he's pretty close cropped in that one.

• 2:13:18David Sims?

  Is he? Let's see.

• 2:13:18Griffin Newman?

  He's, his wife.

• 2:13:20David Sims?

  John Travolta.

• 2:13:21Griffin Newman?

  Terry Polo.

• 2:13:22David Sims?

  Terry Polo and Steve Buscemi.

• 2:13:23Griffin Newman?

  Is dating Vince Vaughn and he's convinced that her, his wife's new boyfriend slash husband is a psychopathic murderer. And he's trying to protect his son, but it turns out Buscemi is actually the villain. That's the reason.

• 2:13:38David Sims?

  This is his.

• 2:13:38Griffin Newman?

  Okay, you're right.

• 2:13:39David Sims?

  Sort of like.

• 2:13:40Griffin Newman?

  You're right.

• 2:13:40David Sims?

  A half Michael.

• 2:13:41Griffin Newman?

  It's Swordfish with the goat.

• 2:13:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:13:44Speaker 04

  So double Buscemi because he's in Monsters Inc. as well.

• 2:13:47Griffin Newman?

  That is why I remembered.

• 2:13:48Speaker 04

  True.

• 2:13:49Griffin Newman?

  And got it so quickly.

• 2:13:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:13:50Griffin Newman?

  Because it was a big Buscemi weekend.

• 2:13:53David Sims?

  And also a weekend.

• 2:13:55Griffin Newman?

  Buscemi weekend. I got caught up on saying Buscemi and then stumbled on weekend.

• 2:13:59Speaker 04

  I think it's, I think it's.

• 2:14:00David Sims?

  It was the one where he got like.

• 2:14:01Griffin Newman?

  Buscemi got.

• 2:14:02David Sims?

  It's Buscemi. Seth Rogen corrected me and I.

• 2:14:04Speaker 04

  And it's, and it's Scorsese.

• 2:14:06David Sims?

  Scorsese.

• 2:14:07Griffin Newman?

  It's Scorchiezy.

• 2:14:08David Sims?

  It's Scorchie. Buscemi got like slashed in the face in a bar fight while they were making that move.

• 2:14:13Griffin Newman?

  Vince Vaughn and Steve Buscemi went out drinking in North Carolina where they were filming the movie and Steve Buscemi was stabbed in the head.

• 2:14:22Speaker 04

  That's terrible.

• 2:14:22Griffin Newman?

  And they were trying to keep his character a secret because he was kind of the John Doe in The Seven of the Film. Because if you know Buscemi's in it, you're like, I bet he's going to try to be the bad guy, right? That's the misdirect, but then it got all this news coverage because you're like beloved character actor.

• 2:14:36David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:14:37Griffin Newman?

  Stabbed in the head with beer bottle. But yes, Buscemi was king of the box office this weekend.

• 2:14:42David Sims?

  Number four at the box office is a film in which an alien is allowed to be frank.

• 2:14:47Speaker 04

  An alien is allowed to be frank.

• 2:14:49David Sims?

  Let him be frank.

• 2:14:49Griffin Newman?

  It's a motion picture called K-Pax.

• 2:14:51David Sims?

  Oh, it's K-Pax.

• 2:14:52Speaker 04

  Wait, this is so funny. This, they.

• 2:14:55Griffin Newman?

  Let me tell you, one thing that Kate Paxton is funny.

• 2:14:57Speaker 04

  No, no, no, but this is funny. Right now, the day we're doing this recording, like, less than 24 hours ago, a friend of mine texted me, they're doing like a special Blu-ray re-release in a steelbook of K-Packs. I'm like, who the fuck is gonna pay for that? Who wants that?

• 2:15:13Griffin Newman?

  This is the disastrous end game of steelbooks or whatever, where it's like, I guess we have to do K-Packs? I, no, Ben, no. Don't do it. I'm not doing it. Griffin bought K-Packs? I'm not. He just did it. I bought the rights. I'm putting it on my own label, Griffin Select. He's eating a banana with the skin on. There's five K-Packs books. They only filmed the first. Wild.

• 2:15:36Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 2:15:36Griffin Newman?

  I just want to bring up.

• 2:15:37Speaker 04

  There's LPacks and NPacks.

• 2:15:39Griffin Newman?

  In, in future episode, shortly upcoming episode, Entertalable Cruelty, next week's episode? Uh. Or is there one in between? No, I think you're right, right? Uh, we talk about how, at one point, Jonathan Demme and Will Smith flirted with making that movie together.

• 2:15:55Speaker 04

  K-Packs.

• 2:15:55Griffin Newman?

  While, well, they were trying to make Entertalable Cruelty together, came out of originally Truth About Charlie, supposed to be Demme and Smith. Demme was so desperate to work with Smith, they also flirted with doing K-Packs. We've all flirted with K-Packs. Demme, Will Smith, K-Packs.

• 2:16:11Speaker 04

  I love Entertalable Cruelty, but Demme's Entertalable Cruelty would have been great, too.

• 2:16:14Griffin Newman?

  It'd be fascinating.

• 2:16:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:16:16Griffin Newman?

  His, I'd prefer his K-Packs, too.

• 2:16:18Speaker 04

  You know, I will say something to you all, listeners and people in the room. I've never seen K-Packs.

• 2:16:25Griffin Newman?

  Jordan, when's your birthday? Send me your new address to New Jersey.

• 2:16:29Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 2:16:30Griffin Newman?

  Ben, I know you said that I can't buy the K-Packs dealbook, but can I buy it for Jordan?

• 2:16:34Speaker 04

  Can, can, do they get K-Packs in New Jersey?

• 2:16:37Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna buy a K-Packs.

• 2:16:38Speaker 04

  NJ Packs. What, why is he, is that his name? Is his name K-Packs?

• 2:16:41Griffin Newman?

  No, his name is Planet. He's playing, claims to be from a planet called K-Packs. Right.

• 2:16:45Speaker 04

  Like, Mark from work.

• 2:16:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:47Speaker 04

  He's Mark from work.

• 2:16:48Griffin Newman?

  He's Mark from work with Bono sunglasses.

• 2:16:51Speaker 04

  Jeff Bridges was the Starman.

• 2:16:53Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:16:53Speaker 04

  So it's Starman meets Mark from work.

• 2:16:55Griffin Newman?

  In this, he's the therapist. In this, he's the, he's the Robin Williams in The Awakenings.

• 2:17:00David Sims?

  Number five of the box office.

• 2:17:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:02David Sims?

  Is the rare Shalhoub star.

• 2:17:05Griffin Newman?

  First build in this film?

• 2:17:07David Sims?

  He's first build.

• 2:17:08Speaker 04

  Wait, no, that's ripping with lube. What, Big Night?

• 2:17:11Griffin Newman?

  No, how would that that made twelve now? Two thousand one, there's a movie where Shalhoub is first built. It's a live action picture. Can you give me a genre?

• 2:17:18David Sims?

  Horror.

• 2:17:19Speaker 04

  Ah, that's.

• 2:17:20Griffin Newman?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:17:21Speaker 04

  Like the.

• 2:17:22Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 2:17:23Speaker 04

  Two thousand one.

• 2:17:24Griffin Newman?

  It's not like Thirteen Ghosts. It is thirteen.

• 2:17:26Speaker 04

  Wow, Shalhoub is the first build in thirteen ghosts.

• 2:17:29David Sims?

  Character, he's a ghost hunter.

• 2:17:31Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, I need to see that.

• 2:17:33David Sims?

  In but above Embath Davidson, Matthew Lillard and Shannon Elizabeth. When will they bring us the fourteenth ghost? One of past guests and friend of the show pilot for its favorite movies thirteen ghosts. I multiple times went to pilot's house and was like, what's going on? Watching thirteen ghosts. And I was like thirteen ghosts. Yeah, Shalhoub's a ghost hunter. Where has to wear weird glasses to see the ghosts?

• 2:17:59Griffin Newman?

  Uh, yeah, uh, blu-ray.com, a great resource, has some of the most deranged message boards. And there's a thread that for me is one of the greatest American texts of the last ten years. That is a guy who is adamant that thirteen ghosts was released in three D and keeps saying, anyone have any word on when it will come out in three D Blu-ray?

• 2:18:18David Sims?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:18:18Griffin Newman?

  And people respond, there is no three D version of this movie. It wasn't released in three D. And he keeps describing how strong his memory was of seeing it in three D and saying, and the three D was really good. And then people are just pulling out digital three D doesn't happen until this point. And that year it would have been anaglyph. It wasn't anaglyph. There's no record of it anywhere.

• 2:18:38Speaker 04

  Today.

• 2:18:38Griffin Newman?

  And then he starts going to other message boards and being like, these people shut me down.

• 2:18:42David Sims?

  Wow.

• 2:18:43Griffin Newman?

  You must have the answers. He's living in his own alternative reality.

• 2:18:47Speaker 04

  Thirteen ghosts, the thirteenth floor, remember that movie?

• 2:18:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, thirteen.

• 2:18:51Speaker 04

  Was that the same year?

• 2:18:52Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:18:53David Sims?

  No, I feel like the thirteenth floor is like ninety nine. Cause that was a, that movie is sort of Matrix.

• 2:18:59Griffin Newman?

  Was that in your cyberpunk?

• 2:19:00David Sims?

  I'm sure was.

• 2:19:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:01David Sims?

  That is a movie that is based on a very, very dense hard sci fi novel called Simulacrum three. And the. Werner Fastbinder fame, like mini series.

• 2:19:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:19:12David Sims?

  World's on a Wire.

• 2:19:13Griffin Newman?

  Is based on that same text?

• 2:19:15Speaker 04

  What? I had no idea. I've seen both of them and I.

• 2:19:18David Sims?

  Thirteenth Floor is based on both of those things, which are both, and World's on a Wire is someone.

• 2:19:23Griffin Newman?

  World on a Wire is not based on that same source material, but.

• 2:19:26David Sims?

  It is. No, it is. But like, but like, it's, it's using both.

• 2:19:29Griffin Newman?

  That's crazy.

• 2:19:30David Sims?

  Such dense ideas and cra- and at the same time, you're like, Craig Bierko is the star of this.

• 2:19:34Griffin Newman?

  It's Bierko and Maul?

• 2:19:36David Sims?

  It's Bierko and Maul, baby.

• 2:19:38Griffin Newman?

  Maul from Bierko and Maul.

• 2:19:39David Sims?

  How did this go wrong? It's a movie and it's got like 15 twists, you know, it's got all this like, what is reality?

• 2:19:46Speaker 04

  I'm, I'm, I'm comfortable enough to say, I don't think I understood.

• 2:19:49Griffin Newman?

  I don't understand it at all. I also know it's six hours long and it felt like it was rushed. So I can't imagine like the fucking Columbia Pictures 100 minute version of it.

• 2:19:58David Sims?

  Tell you, it feels a little rushed.

• 2:20:00Speaker 04

  There's another, I cannot deny that. There's a French movie called, I think it's called Je Tempe, Je Tempe, which is also like about brain universes and whatever. And I don't understand that movie.

• 2:20:09Griffin Newman?

  Levels of consciousness and reality.

• 2:20:11David Sims?

  A lot of the time, these things are, that's an Alan Rene movie, I believe.

• 2:20:16Speaker 04

  We, we.

• 2:20:16David Sims?

  You know, right, are about how we can't understand.

• 2:20:19Speaker 04

  Much like the man who wasn't there. If you look for the facts, the facts aren't there.

• 2:20:23David Sims?

  Number six is the box office. I agree with that. Riding Cars with Boys. The solid Penny Marshall movie that I assume we'll be covering anytime, any day now.

• 2:20:30Griffin Newman?

  Eminently. You can start doing the math. How many episodes until we cover that?

• 2:20:34David Sims?

  Number seven, From Hell. Speaking of Johnny Depp on meth, not a bad movie, on opium or something, but you know.

• 2:20:40Speaker 04

  I like that movie.

• 2:20:41Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 2:20:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, I like from, I mean.

• 2:20:42David Sims?

  I love the graphic novel, obviously.

• 2:20:44Speaker 04

  Saw it in the theater and said, this is a nice way to spend two hours.

• 2:20:48David Sims?

  Remains insane that that graphic novel was adapted by the Hughes Brothers starring Johnny Depp, but yeah.

• 2:20:52Griffin Newman?

  And was a moderate hit?

• 2:20:54David Sims?

  It did okay.

• 2:20:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:55David Sims?

  Number eight is Training Day, which did great.

• 2:20:58Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:20:58David Sims?

  Obviously.

• 2:20:59Griffin Newman?

  Boom.

• 2:21:00David Sims?

  That was the kind of thing, again, in the fall, people are like, we like this kind of darkness. Like really, really kind of like over the top.

• 2:21:05Griffin Newman?

  My memory also is that it was a movie that was supposed to come out like September 16th and they like kicked it like a month out of fear of like, is this too intense for people? And then it overperformed.

• 2:21:16David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:21:16Griffin Newman?

  And people were like, solid programmer. And then it wins Oscars.

• 2:21:20David Sims?

  Sure did.

• 2:21:20Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:21:21David Sims?

  Number nine is the Bandits, the aforementioned Bandits. So Thornton is.

• 2:21:26Griffin Newman?

  Hey now.

• 2:21:26David Sims?

  Plan, although that movie underperformed, obviously.

• 2:21:30Speaker 04

  You love to remind.

• 2:21:31David Sims?

  Well, it did, it did. Cause it was right after Sixth Sense and stuff where it's like, his real is.

• 2:21:35Griffin Newman?

  His real is back.

• 2:21:36David Sims?

  Uh, and then 10 is Serendipity. The

• 2:21:38Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:21:39David Sims?

  Bad rom com.

• 2:21:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:40David Sims?

  With Cusack.

• 2:21:41Speaker 04

  About the, um, um.

• 2:21:43David Sims?

  Russian tea house.

• 2:21:43Speaker 04

  Hot, hot chocolate.

• 2:21:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:45Griffin Newman?

  Serendipity.

• 2:21:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:21:47David Sims?

  Serendipity.

• 2:21:48Speaker 04

  I never saw it.

• 2:21:49David Sims?

  It's not very good.

• 2:21:50Speaker 04

  I've had their hot chocolate.

• 2:21:51David Sims?

  Those Cusack movies after High Fidelity, where Hollywood is like, you're a rom com star, and he just seems so angry about that fact.

• 2:21:59Griffin Newman?

  You say this, and yet I watch fucking America's Sweethearts, and I'm like, he is on fire in this. I can tell he doesn't give a shit.

• 2:22:06David Sims?

  You have defended that movie on several episodes at this point, because you've watched it sometime in the last six months.

• 2:22:12Griffin Newman?

  Probably.

• 2:22:12David Sims?

  And your defense of it is like spread out over a few episodes. And now I'm gonna have to go and watch, like, who directed that? Who's, what studio executive?

• 2:22:20Griffin Newman?

  Joe Roth.

• 2:22:21David Sims?

  Joe Roth's America's Sweetheart.

• 2:22:23Speaker 04

  Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:22:23David Sims?

  Which I remember being a two star movie.

• 2:22:26Speaker 04

  What was the last

• 2:22:27Griffin Newman?

  Two and a half.

• 2:22:28Speaker 04

  thing John Cusack was in that wasn't, that was memorable.

• 2:22:31David Sims?

  Like.

• 2:22:31Speaker 04

  That wasn't a directive.

• 2:22:33David Sims?

  What about Shy Rack?

• 2:22:34Speaker 04

  Nothing's, yes.

• 2:22:35Griffin Newman?

  He's insane in that movie. That he's in that.

• 2:22:38Speaker 04

  But he is good in that.

• 2:22:39David Sims?

  It's an interesting performance.

• 2:22:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, yeah.

• 2:22:41David Sims?

  It might be bad.

• 2:22:42Speaker 04

  Let's say he's notable in that. But it's not a direct to video shot in Bucharest.

• 2:22:47Griffin Newman?

  I mean, Lee Daniels, the butler, one of the weirdest performances ever.

• 2:22:50David Sims?

  He's Nixon in that one?

• 2:22:51Griffin Newman?

  He's Nixon. He plays Nixon like Lloyd Dobler. And he's like, I'm not a crook.

• 2:22:56Speaker 04

  Checkers.

• 2:22:57David Sims?

  But Love and Mercy, he's the less, uh, engaging part of that film.

• 2:23:01Griffin Newman?

  I do think he is quite good.

• 2:23:02Speaker 04

  That's, no, he's great. That's, but that's all, that movie's at least seven years old.

• 2:23:06Griffin Newman?

  Love and Mercy.

• 2:23:07David Sims?

  More.

• 2:23:07Griffin Newman?

  That movie's like, close to 10 years old.

• 2:23:09Speaker 04

  It's really good.

• 2:23:10Griffin Newman?

  It has been a while. That it's, he's a weird millionaire. He's like, it's, uh, I'm forgetting the guy's name, but he was like a foam financier who was like, I want to make something. And people were like, yeah, good luck with that, buddy.

• 2:23:21Speaker 04

  And Steve Bannon?

• 2:23:22Griffin Newman?

  Well done. It's Steve Mnuchin. That's who it is.

• 2:23:25Speaker 04

  Is it real? No.

• 2:23:26Griffin Newman?

  No, no, no, no. I, I forget the name of the guy, but I'm, I'm truly, I'm scrolling back and I'm not finding the last thing he was in, I would say of any legitimacy was Shy Rack, which was now 10 years ago.

• 2:23:36David Sims?

  That's like 2016 or whatever.

• 2:23:37Griffin Newman?

  That's 2015.

• 2:23:38Speaker 04

  You know, F that guy. He's got to get his shit together.

• 2:23:41Griffin Newman?

  Since then, Arsenal, Blood Money, Singularity, Distorted, River Runs Red, Never Grow Old, Pursuit. I mean, like.

• 2:23:46Speaker 04

  And he doesn't even really have an excuse. Because when Nicolas Cage was doing this nonsense, he was in tax debt. He had to do it.

• 2:23:52David Sims?

  It's Bill Pollard, who is like part of the Pollard family, who owned the Minnesota Twins.

• 2:23:59Speaker 04

  He's the one who did Love and.

• 2:24:00David Sims?

  Mostly produces.

• 2:24:01Griffin Newman?

  And he did the Casey Affleck one.

• 2:24:03David Sims?

  Yeah, Dreamin' Wild.

• 2:24:04Speaker 04

  I believe that John Cusack could say to his managers, look, I make 10 of these bullshit movies a year. Let me do seven instead and give me one real movie. There's a director that would love to cast.

• 2:24:15Griffin Newman?

  I think he's deeply cynical and doesn't care enough anymore.

• 2:24:17Speaker 04

  Well, then F him.

• 2:24:18Griffin Newman?

  I agree. That's always the vibe I've got.

• 2:24:19Speaker 04

  Cause there are people that that want to work and he's talented. He's wasting his time.

• 2:24:23Griffin Newman?

  He meant so much to me and it's like, while I will defend shit like Serendipity and America's Sweeter, where I'm like, this guy on autopilot had juice that people today wish they could conjure up. That was him at his most checked out.

• 2:24:35Speaker 04

  Recent movie where where you could like Richard Jenkins shows up in The Man Who Wasn't There. Where could you plop John Cusack and say, what a great performance?

• 2:24:43Griffin Newman?

  He's truly like, sure. My quote is $5 million. And they're like, you're not getting that if you do one good scene in a Coen Brothers movie. Like he, I think he's just got a huge ego.

• 2:24:52Speaker 04

  He doesn't want to do it.

• 2:24:52Griffin Newman?

  He is notoriously one of the biggest assholes in Hollywood.

• 2:24:55Speaker 04

  I mean, Nick Cage had to do it because he was in tax. He had tax problems. Of course, Bruce Willis, we know he was banking up because he was sick.

• 2:25:02Griffin Newman?

  All of Cusack's closest friends and collaborators no longer speak to him anymore.

• 2:25:06David Sims?

  So it's pretty obvious how.

• 2:25:07Griffin Newman?

  Steve Pank and Tip Robbins, everyone who like worked with him.

• 2:25:10David Sims?

  On a right flow by himself.

• 2:25:12Speaker 04

  All right. You know, within enough about him.

• 2:25:13Speaker 03

  His politics are are normal.

• 2:25:16Speaker 04

  Oh, he's not normal. He was, he's posted swastikas on on X. And then he deletes them and says, I didn't know, I didn't know that was antisemitic, you know?

• 2:25:26Speaker 03

  I just wanted to share something.

• 2:25:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:25:28Speaker 03

  So Jordan, a running theme with these kinds of movies is that I watch it and I'm like, this shit would work out.

• 2:25:35David Sims?

  I would get away with all of it.

• 2:25:37Speaker 03

  And so I just want to kind of walk through, if I may, how I feel like I could pull off. Happy ending. Yeah, yeah. Okay, all right. Still blackmail that motherfucker. Okay, so you want to do that. Right. Okay, but I don't invest in dry cleaning. I see that coming a mile off. Money.

• 2:25:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm also gonna say, right off the bat, even before that point, I think just like a bed of 10 years of being open and communicative with your wife.

• 2:26:03Speaker 03

  Sure, I like that.

• 2:26:04Griffin Newman?

  Having a healthy, trusting relationship.

• 2:26:06Speaker 03

  But he still wants the 10 grand from Gable. Having the sexual relations, right?

• 2:26:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes, right, but then of course blackmail.

• 2:26:12Speaker 04

  Performing the sex act.

• 2:26:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:13Speaker 03

  Okay, we quit our jobs, me and Francis go to the happiest place on earth, Disneyland. Hey.

• 2:26:19Griffin Newman?

  I like.

• 2:26:20Speaker 03

  It is the 40s, I think it doesn't exist yet, but I'm gonna allow. Fuck, okay.

• 2:26:23Griffin Newman?

  You go, you start buying land.

• 2:26:25Speaker 04

  You go to Wildwood, New Jersey.

• 2:26:27Speaker 03

  We rekindle the marriage, okay? So maybe Niagara Falls, let's say. Sure. Whatever. Cue Salacious Crumla.

• 2:26:33Griffin Newman?

  Rye Playland.

• 2:26:35Speaker 03

  That's going.

• 2:26:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I think that one's really old.

• 2:26:37Speaker 03

  Gialfini still gets in trouble for the embezzlement, okay?

• 2:26:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:41Speaker 03

  Right, maybe he kills Polito, I don't know, it's not my problem.

• 2:26:44Griffin Newman?

  By the way, this is written.

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  I had to work it out.

• 2:26:46Speaker 04

  No, no, it's good.

• 2:26:47Speaker 03

  Rye Playland opened in 1928.

• 2:26:49Griffin Newman?

  I told you, I knew it was old.

• 2:26:50Speaker 03

  Me and Francis moved to New York City by a brownstone. Hey, that real estate baby, that will pay off. Now you're just got, right, you've got investment insight. Okay, I've become a successful abstract expressionist artist, cuz that shit seems easy.

• 2:27:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, totally easy.

• 2:27:07Speaker 03

  And also it's. Getting deeply cynical.

• 2:27:09Griffin Newman?

  Also, maybe Ben, buy some IBM stock.

• 2:27:11Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 2:27:13Speaker 04

  Also, place bets on winners of the World Series that you know are going to happen.

• 2:27:17Speaker 03

  Be like, the Bulls are gonna run the table in the 90s.

• 2:27:19Griffin Newman?

  I like that this is the first time you're, if I had been in this movie, it would have worked out, basically involves you being a time traveler.

• 2:27:25Speaker 03

  It's just like Googling stuff that will happen.

• 2:27:28Griffin Newman?

  You're in the period the movie is set, but you have the knowledge that you have.

• 2:27:32Speaker 03

  Lastly. Fucking like Miro is like, wait, someone did dots before I thought of that?

• 2:27:37Griffin Newman?

  Or whatever. Copyrighted the term computer?

• 2:27:41Speaker 03

  Jackson. What if astronauts had ice cream?

• 2:27:43Speaker 04

  There you go. Invest in Tang. Buy Tang stock.

• 2:27:49David Sims?

  Okay, lastly, though, I see an alien. They take me on their ship. We become good friends.

• 2:27:56Speaker 04

  Besties. That's the thing. Do you think Joel and Ethan ever had, by the way, that was terrific then.

• 2:28:01David Sims?

  Do you think the Coens would appreciate you saying all that?

• 2:28:03Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 2:28:05David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:28:05Speaker 04

  Individually, though, not as a unit, unfortunately. Now, do you feel that there was ever a moment when they were spitballing the script where they said, and then Billy Bob gets on the spaceship?

• 2:28:15Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:28:15Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:28:16Griffin Newman?

  No, no, if only because, you know, there's a clip that goes around a lot of Guillermo del Toro interviewing them for the Lewin Davis DVD. It's one of the best extended talks they've ever done. It's like 45 minutes.

• 2:28:27David Sims?

  They'll talk to him.

• 2:28:27Griffin Newman?

  Of Talk and Shop. And he says, like, you know, the moment, to jump ahead, you know, we'll cover this in weeks from now, but where Lewin Davis sees the offer to the town where he knows his illegitimate son lives.

• 2:28:38Speaker 04

  That devastating scene. And also, sorry, one of the most remarkable scenes.

• 2:28:42Griffin Newman?

  And you think you know, well, I, that's obviously where the movie's going. That's gonna be the next 20 minutes of not the ending. And he said, did you ever consider that? Did you do the exercise? And he went, you know, it's funny, we never once until this moment considered that we could have written that he drives there. And I think that is just kind of the way they think, like, the ends are, you write the moment of the person not choosing the thing. They never do the mental exercise of what if they did the thing?

• 2:29:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It just seems to be a pattern with them.

• 2:29:10Speaker 04

  For sure. Yeah. And that's why they're great.

• 2:29:12Griffin Newman?

  And I think this movie, if I could just kind of conclude my read on it, is like this tragedy for them about the way that they think people perceive them as like, imagine if you actually didn't care about anything, you know?

• 2:29:24Speaker 04

  Well, yeah.

• 2:29:24Griffin Newman?

  Like, what a miserable way to live life.

• 2:29:26Speaker 04

  They had, they had been now making movies for, for almost 15 years, right? What, uh, so they'd been around the block and they'd received plenty of criticism. And even though they're cool guys and they're the smartest guys in the room.

• 2:29:38David Sims?

  No, but they.

• 2:29:38Speaker 04

  It had have gotten under the skin. This, I appreciate your, your read on this as this is their rebuke to their critics.

• 2:29:43Griffin Newman?

  And they have this kind of steely, deadpan vibe. They don't want to speak much. They're stone faced in interviews, you know?

• 2:29:49Speaker 04

  But they also, I did make them laugh.

• 2:29:50David Sims?

  They are funny.

• 2:29:51Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 2:29:51David Sims?

  Let's not forget, uh, that they are funny in interviews about this movie, though, where they're like, of course, Lebowski got ignored.

• 2:29:58Speaker 04

  By awards bodies. Of course, our brother was sort of like, you know, just this cop, you know, like, and then this, we take it to Cannes, we win best director because they're like, it's black and white. Well, you know, like, we made an arty movie again. Like, they are always so deflective of any kind of like, oh, no, we really care about what, you know, the critics think or what the voters think. And I believe them. I don't think they really care. They know that stuff helps.

• 2:30:23Griffin Newman?

  Obviously, I think if this movie was meant to be like, an aggressively defensive retort to their critics.

• 2:30:29Speaker 04

  No, it's not that.

• 2:30:30Griffin Newman?

  It, right. They would have been more direct about it. I think it's more them kind of interrogating the idea of how they're perceived, right? This notion.

• 2:30:38Speaker 04

  I think you're right. And I think if they, if they had gone stronger, they would have said to themselves, why are we care? Like, you know, like, who are we to be upset about our critics? Like, we get to make movies. Let's shut up and make movies. You know, I think they're, they're too self-aware.

• 2:30:49Griffin Newman?

  It's like an imaginative exercise of like, the type of person they're accusing us of being, how would that person even function in the world?

• 2:30:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:30:57Griffin Newman?

  Right? If you truly just don't give a shit and just kind of stand around looking cool, saying cool stuff. David's checking his watch.

• 2:31:06Speaker 04

  Is it time to go? We've been yapping.

• 2:31:07Griffin Newman?

  Jordan, we come to our listeners with one simple request. We just want 157% of you to sign up for Hoff Stack.

• 2:31:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:31:15David Sims?

  Hoffstack.substack.com and your writing is elsewhere.

• 2:31:19Speaker 04

  I write for about movies and TV and stuff, but it's true. The kids are going crazy for Hoff Stack.

• 2:31:23Griffin Newman?

  They're loving it.

• 2:31:24Speaker 04

  TikTok is out, Hoff Stack is in.

• 2:31:25Griffin Newman?

  We got any new salsa reviews coming? I miss you doing that work.

• 2:31:29Speaker 04

  Um, you know, it's funny because I've been, there might be some listeners who do subscribe to the Hoff Stack saying, hey, buddy, when, when's your next update? I don't write constantly. I need to get back into that. But what I predict is that when this episode airs in X amount of weeks, there will be a torrent of, of material and it's going to be great. So if you buy now, right now, the low, low price of X amount of dollars, I should probably raise the price real quick.

• 2:31:55Griffin Newman?

  No, lower it.

• 2:31:56Speaker 04

  Oh, lower it. Okay. Yeah, lower it. Um, it's going to be great. And the people listening, you know, the blog that was there is my Hoff Stack. Oh, is it a good blog? Let me tell you, vlog, occasionally I vlog.

• 2:32:07Griffin Newman?

  Occasionally a vlog.

• 2:32:08Speaker 04

  When I'm too lazy to write, I just talk.

• 2:32:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the camera loves you.

• 2:32:11Speaker 04

  I did a vlog about weapons. I loved Weapons. That was a good movie.

• 2:32:15Griffin Newman?

  It rules.

• 2:32:15Speaker 04

  Loved it. Do you think Weapons will be nominated for the best original screenplay nomination?

• 2:32:20David Sims?

  I floated this on Katie's podcast, Katie Rich from the show, also Subdecka, where I was like, if that movie is a true phenomenon, you never know. And it's kind of

• 2:32:30Griffin Newman?

  Heading in that direction.

• 2:32:31David Sims?

  It's kind of heading in that direction.

• 2:32:32Griffin Newman?

  We're recording this on the eve of its second box office weekend.

• 2:32:36David Sims?

  And she rightly was like, you know, there's a big, big sort of, you know, barrier to that kind of horror movie. Something like what Coogler did with Sinners, where it's mixed with other genres.

• 2:32:45Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, it's also Coogler's at a little bit more of an anointment point versus Craigor being fresh. I could see that.

• 2:32:52Speaker 04

  You can't have, you can't have Sinners and Weapons nominated for best original screenplay.

• 2:32:56David Sims?

  You never know.

• 2:32:57Speaker 04

  It's, I agree, it's too much, one of the other.

• 2:32:59Griffin Newman?

  I wonder if it's a bridge too far, but I also think Weapons has a stronger acting contender than Sinners does.

• 2:33:06David Sims?

  No, Sinners has the stronger acting contender.

• 2:33:08Griffin Newman?

  Who do you think's the, you think?

• 2:33:09David Sims?

  Michael B. Double MBJ. Yeah, he plays two people. The Oscars love that shit.

• 2:33:13Griffin Newman?

  And you don't think, uh, Amy Madigan's gonna get nominated?

• 2:33:16David Sims?

  I mean, I would love to see that. Truly would love to see that.

• 2:33:20Speaker 04

  Let me ask.

• 2:33:20Griffin Newman?

  We got a long season ahead of us.

• 2:33:22Speaker 04

  Did, uh, I think she, did Ruth Gordon get nominated for Rosemary's Baby?

• 2:33:25David Sims?

  She won an Oscar, my friend.

• 2:33:26Griffin Newman?

  That's why.

• 2:33:26David Sims?

  It's a crazy win.

• 2:33:27Griffin Newman?

  She won.

• 2:33:28Speaker 04

  So Amy Madigan could get nominated as, uh,

• 2:33:31David Sims?

  I would love to see.

• 2:33:31Speaker 04

  You know what?

• 2:33:32David Sims?

  I really think that performance is very special.

• 2:33:34Griffin Newman?

  I agree, and I think it's sticky.

• 2:33:36David Sims?

  And she's an Oscar nominee.

• 2:33:37Speaker 04

  When I was, I think Weapons, I don't think it says

• 2:33:41David Sims?

  And Harris could yell at people for her.

• 2:33:43Speaker 04

  I don't think, um, I don't think Weapons is

• 2:33:46Griffin Newman?

  They could sit the Oscars together, arms crossed, not applauding.

• 2:33:49David Sims?

  Yes, exactly.

• 2:33:50Griffin Newman?

  Mean mugging, looking like two grumpy cats.

• 2:33:52David Sims?

  Yeah, iconic stuff from them.

• 2:33:54Speaker 04

  I don't think Weapons is anywhere near as good as Rosemary's Baby, obviously, but I do think it's kind of

• 2:33:59Griffin Newman?

  One of those movies.

• 2:34:01Speaker 04

  I, I think like

• 2:34:02Griffin Newman?

  Kind of pinnacle of Hollywood filmmaking.

• 2:34:04Speaker 04

  I think Weapons As a horror film is it's not crazy to say it's it's Rosemary's Baby-esque.

• 2:34:12Griffin Newman?

  It's not.

• 2:34:12Speaker 04

  And you know what's so funny is that this gal who we both love, Julia Garner, she was in the Rosemary's Baby prequel, which nobody saw.

• 2:34:22David Sims?

  Apartment 78, which I thought was pretty good.

• 2:34:23Speaker 04

  You saw it. I never saw it.

• 2:34:24David Sims?

  I watched it. It was good.

• 2:34:25Speaker 04

  Should I watch it? I love her.

• 2:34:27David Sims?

  It's one of those things where it's like, it's directed by the person who did Relic, which was a movie I liked, which is why I watched it.

• 2:34:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:34:33David Sims?

  And it's one of those things where number one, you're like, I wish this just wasn't a Rosemary's Baby prequel, right? Like, it would be fun if this was just a horror movie set in an apartment building. Number two of that is obviously be nice to see in the theater. I saw it on fucking Paramount Plus.

• 2:34:47Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 2:34:47David Sims?

  Number three is it really just, it's not perfect, but it has two or three beautifully directed like sequences that are so cool.

• 2:34:55Griffin Newman?

  Diane Wees plays the Ruth Gordon, the cast of that.

• 2:34:57Speaker 04

  It's good. I'm watching it tonight. Watching it tonight. But I love, if we're talking Julia Garner talk, I love that Australian movie. Now, David Sims does not like the ending.

• 2:35:05Griffin Newman?

  We were talking right, right before record about the.

• 2:35:08David Sims?

  I love the movie.

• 2:35:08Speaker 04

  It's called The Hotel New Hampshire or something. I don't know what it's called. The Royal Hotel, New Hampshire. It's very, very, very.

• 2:35:13Griffin Newman?

  Documentary is called Hotel Normandy, I think. I get the name confused.

• 2:35:16Speaker 04

  Hotel Rwanda?

• 2:35:17Griffin Newman?

  It's based on documentary. Yeah. It's based on the documentary Hotel for Dogs.

• 2:35:21Speaker 04

  By the way, the Yelp reviews of Hotel Rwanda are terrible.

• 2:35:24David Sims?

  We gotta go. Salacious Crumb is asleep.

• 2:35:27Griffin Newman?

  Well, no Wi-Fi. You know, that's no free Wi-Fi.

• 2:35:30David Sims?

  Ben's looking at his phone. Luckily, we already recorded our ads, but I think Griffin has to record like a radio play or something.

• 2:35:37Griffin Newman?

  Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for.

• 2:35:44Speaker 04

  More podcasts.

• 2:35:46Griffin Newman?

  In Tarble Cruelty.

• 2:35:47Speaker 04

  By the way, can I just say one thing? This is kind of funny. I'll make this so quick. Once in a blue moon, I go on the blank check Reddit page.

• 2:35:55Griffin Newman?

  Normal place.

• 2:35:56David Sims?

  I'm going to the bathroom.

• 2:35:56Speaker 04

  No, no, no. This is so quick.

• 2:35:57David Sims?

  I don't care.

• 2:35:58Speaker 04

  All right. I'll just talk to the others.

• 2:36:00Griffin Newman?

  My man's about to take a number three.

• 2:36:02Speaker 04

  He's gonna rub one out. Now, listen to this. I will occasionally.

• 2:36:06Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna do the sexual.

• 2:36:08Speaker 04

  He's gonna perform the sex act with the toilet paper. I will occasionally go on Reddit and look up myself, of course, obviously, and look up myself on the blank check Reddit page.

• 2:36:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:36:20Speaker 04

  And this is the comment that's always made.

• 2:36:22Griffin Newman?

  Many fans on the.

• 2:36:23Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, no. There are, this is the comment made about me, Jordan Hoffman. An underrated guest. Now, that's an honor.

• 2:36:31Speaker 04

  But when will I be a rated guest? Why am I the-

• 2:36:34Griffin Newman?

  Jordan?

• 2:36:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:36:35Griffin Newman?

  I'm dubbing you now. Blank Check's most rated guest.

• 2:36:41Speaker 04

  I would like to be rated.

• 2:36:43Griffin Newman?

  That is your title from here on out.

• 2:36:45Speaker 04

  I feel in life, this is my entire, every, everything I do, whether it's going to work for a company that then closes two weeks later after I promoted on this podcast, whether it's performing the sex act with my wife.

• 2:36:57Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 2:36:57Speaker 04

  It's always like, hey, that was better than I expected, you know? And I'd like for once to be expected to be okay.

• 2:37:03Griffin Newman?

  Sims, we have dubbed Jordan Blank Check's most rated.

• 2:37:06David Sims?

  You think I didn't hear that? That was quiet?

• 2:37:09Speaker 04

  I heard that in Queens.

• 2:37:11Griffin Newman?

  I will say, the way you come up often in the subreddit is like, once a month, some user will make a post that's asking the question that people ask once a month, like clockwork. What's the best episode? What's the worst episode? What's the funniest moment? Who's the best guest? What's the worst guest? Right? These same things. And every time people do the, what's the funniest moment? Very often-

• 2:37:30David Sims?

  Somebody will say-

• 2:37:31Griffin Newman?

  At the top of the list, and I'm quoting here.

• 2:37:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:37:35Griffin Newman?

  Jordan Hoffman screaming, "Your mother's cunt." And David Sims responding, "We are in a place of work."

• 2:37:42Speaker 04

  Oh, it's Betty said that.

• 2:37:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes.

• 2:37:44Speaker 04

  I saw somebody-

• 2:37:45Griffin Newman?

  Back in the audio booth.

• 2:37:46Speaker 04

  One of the, um, one of the readers or Redditors, whatever the hell you call them, on New Year's Eve said, "If you start, if you press play now on that episode, I will shout, 'Your mother's cunt' at midnight." And you could, you could then usher in the new year on your mother's cunt.

• 2:38:01Griffin Newman?

  And, and what better way? Thank you for being here, Jordan. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate and review and subscribe. I feel like I said this and then I got this rail. Now I'm resetting. Tune in next week for Untold or Cruelty.

• 2:38:13David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:38:14Griffin Newman?

  And as always, I just want to end with the mirror of the quote I started the episode with, because I started with Billy Bob paraphrasing-

• 2:38:22Speaker 04

  David's already left.

• 2:38:22Griffin Newman?

  Shalube.

• 2:38:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. Shalube it up.

• 2:38:24David Sims?

  My friend calls masturbating a number three, by the way. I think it's funny.

• 2:38:27Griffin Newman?

  That was the joke we made when you were in the bathroom.

• 2:38:29Speaker 04

  While you were doing it.

• 2:38:30Griffin Newman?

  We said you did the sex act with the toilet paper.

• 2:38:32Speaker 04

  Frances McDormand getting her legs shaved. Rar.

• 2:38:35Griffin Newman?

  I think she'd be nice to be married to.

• 2:38:36Speaker 04

  Sure, yeah.

• 2:38:37Griffin Newman?

  Listen, the Shalube quote, which I do think is as much as an answer to this movie as the movie gives, is "The more you look, the less you really know. It's a fact, a true fact. In a way, it's the only fact there is. Your mother's cunt."

• 2:38:51Speaker 04

  Oh, my God. Salacious big crumb.

• 2:39:03Speaker 02

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas, and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features

• 2:39:44Speaker 02

  for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social @BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.