After Hours with Alison Sivitz

1985's After Hours - It's the ultimate "one crazy night in New York City" movie. It's also the ultimate Griffin movie (both Dunne and Newman). But is it the ultimate cool person choice for the best Scorsese movie? Let's discuss. The lovely Ali Sivitz (also known as Bald Ann Dowd) joins us to talk about this deliriously entertaining slice of prime SoHo history. Apologies to everyone who hates when we talk too much about New York. It's kind of difficult to avoid it with this one. Get your tickets to the LIVESTREAM of Blank Check's sold out Bell House show on Fri, Oct 16 at 7:30pm ET! https://www.dynasty.tv/products/blank-check-live-10-16-26-4-30pmpt-7-30pmet Watch our Scorsese-spectacular live with your fellow Blankies or on VOD (for a limited time). Get Tickets to Blank Check Presents: The Garbage Pail Kids Movie on Sun, Oct 25, 7:30pm at the Refocus Film Festival in Iowa City https://tickets.icfilmscene.org/websales/pages/info.aspx?evtinfo=1026937~73f00f5b-a703-472f-975d-5ae901133780&epguid=8214219d-d011-48e5-9822-7cbf57941a30&mdy=10/25/2026& Read When Real Ann Dowd Met Bald Ann Dowd https://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/when-real-ann-dowd-met-bald-ann-dowd Follow Bald Ann Dowd https://x.com/ali_sivi Follow Ali on IG https://www.instagram.com/ali.sivi/?hl=en Check out Joe Frank’s Monologue “Lies” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIG636ri4r8 Read Public Radio’s Bad Dream By Susan Emerling https://www.salon.com/2000/03/07/joe_frank/ Keep your eyes peeled and hopefully there are more Plaster of Paris Bagel and Cream Cheese Paperweights https://www.etsy.com/listing/1720014876/plaster-of-paris-bagel-and-cream-cheese Read Dwayne Johnson: A Little Golden Book Biography https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/702445/dwayne-johnson-a-little-golden-book-biography-by-frank-berrios-illustrated-by-irene-chan/ Check out Tickly Octopus Written and Illustrated by Ruth Galloway https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/634131/tickly-octopus-by-ruth-galloway-illustrated-by-ruth-galloway/ Read Pauline https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1985/09/23/airheads-delight and Rogers’s https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/after-hours-1985 thoughts on the film Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:22David Sims?

  What do you want from me? What have I done? I'm just a podcaster, for Christ's sakes. What's the line?

• 0:29Griffin Newman?

  Word processor is what his job is in the movie?

• 0:32David Sims?

  Thank you for backing off the mic.

• 0:34Griffin Newman?

  Thank you.

• 0:34David Sims?

  I appreciate it.

• 0:35Griffin Newman?

  You know what? Eleven years, you learn a couple of things. Eleven and a half.

• 0:40David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 0:40Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 0:41Griffin Newman?

  It's pretty close to our half birthday when this episode's coming out.

• 0:44Speaker 02

  When's the real birthday?

• 0:46Griffin Newman?

  March twenty-third.

• 0:51David Sims?

  March twenty-third. That's our anniversary.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Is that a... That's an Aries.

• 0:57David Sims?

  Uh, that sounds right.

• 0:58Griffin Newman?

  No?

• 0:59Speaker 02

  That's a Pisces?

• 1:00David Sims?

  Aries.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  No, but it's Aries.

• 1:01David Sims?

  You were right the first time. It's an Aries. Which is why our podcast is crazy.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05Griffin Newman?

  We were talking astrology before the show, but we've never thought to do the signs for the show itself.

• 1:10David Sims?

  We should.

• 1:11Griffin Newman?

  The show itself, a water podcast.

• 1:14David Sims?

  Uh, no, Aries is...

• 1:15Speaker 02

  Or, I mean, fire.

• 1:16Griffin Newman?

  A fire podcast.

• 1:18David Sims?

  Um, yes.

• 1:19Griffin Newman?

  And many do say that.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  I've heard it on the street.

• 1:22Griffin Newman?

  It's a fire podcast.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  And I'll put her hand gently on my shoulder and said Blank Check is a fire podcast.

• 1:28Griffin Newman?

  She whispered it.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry if I seem a little out of it. I, I didn't, uh, get any sleep, uh, last night. I had a, I had a crazy night.

• 1:35David Sims?

  You are covered in papier-mache, aren't you?

• 1:37Griffin Newman?

  I had a crazy night. I had to watch After Hours.

• 1:40David Sims?

  Right. Which is like eighty-seven whole minutes long.

• 1:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I guess that was basically the night.

• 1:46David Sims?

  I'm reading your interview now, which I read it before, but I'm just reading it again. It is so funny.

• 1:50Griffin Newman?

  With Andou.

• 1:51David Sims?

  With Andou.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, with Andou.

• 1:52David Sims?

  Where you're like, oh, I feel like we could just chat. And she just says, whatever you'd like, honey.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  She's so angel perfect, lovely.

• 1:59David Sims?

  Right in a good mood if Andou said that to me. Real Andou.

• 2:03Griffin Newman?

  What was the Andou? We got an Andou burger report.

• 2:06David Sims?

  Yep.

• 2:06Griffin Newman?

  Hair Andou is a good way to differentiate, like full-fat coke. Hair Andou. It's nicer than her suit Andou, even if that's correct. In comparison, it makes it sound like she's a yeti.

• 2:19David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 2:20Griffin Newman?

  You want just hair Andou.

• 2:22David Sims?

  Let's maybe give some context of what we're talking about. Absolutely. Griffin, what's this podcast?

• 2:27Griffin Newman?

  This podcast, David's so happy that it's happening.

• 2:30David Sims?

  Right away.

• 2:31Griffin Newman?

  Much like After Hours, which gets to Roseanne Arquette's apartment within like ten minutes.

• 2:35David Sims?

  When I set up that transition, Sims gave me the biggest smile.

• 2:38Griffin Newman?

  I, I actually have maybe never seen David this happy in my life.

• 2:42David Sims?

  So happy. Look at two minutes and we're getting into the, the whole spiel.

• 2:47Griffin Newman?

  I'm waiting for two thirty. Two thirty. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 2:53David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 2:53Griffin Newman?

  It's a fire podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear, sometimes they bounce, baby. And sometimes, like Martin Scorsese, he has a series of films where he needs to reset the table.

• 3:10David Sims?

  Sure.

• 3:11Griffin Newman?

  And I, you and I were saying this the other day, I think off mic, that what makes Martin Scorsese unique is every movie of his that on paper is a paycheck movie.

• 3:21David Sims?

  Sure, or is basically like, he's doing this while he waits to make the one he really cares about.

• 3:25Griffin Newman?

  This is a favor film, this is more of a hired gig, whatever. Every one of those would be most filmmakers' best film ever.

• 3:32David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 3:33Griffin Newman?

  None of them are dispassionate. All of them are interested. David?

• 3:37David Sims?

  I didn't know the ice would be that loud. I was drinking coffee, not eating ice. I was drinking coffee.

• 3:41Griffin Newman?

  Ben, in his defense, it's never loud and this has never been a problem before. So there's no way he could have known.

• 3:46David Sims?

  You have a bit of a problem with ice near the microphone.

• 3:48Griffin Newman?

  This is correct. And I have a bit of a problem with ice in the streets of America.

• 3:53David Sims?

  I mean, yes, I agree with you. Okay.

• 3:57Griffin Newman?

  And I say abolish ice from David's cup. That wasn't a cue for you to do it.

• 4:05David Sims?

  It actually was.

• 4:05Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's a little jacked up?

• 4:07David Sims?

  Yeah, I feel like everyone's a little, ooh. This movie, I watched it this morning, has put me in such a weird mood.

• 4:12Griffin Newman?

  Really? It's, you found that this movie got you a little wound?

• 4:15David Sims?

  Yeah, like first thing, watching this, I'm just feeling very buzzy. Had you seen it before, producer Ben? I had.

• 4:21Griffin Newman?

  You had? I mean, let's call it. This is a mini-series on the films of Martin Scorsese. It's called Podcast Fellas, of course. It couldn't have been called anything else. And today, we're covering the griffiest movie we've ever covered on the show. And I mean that in a couple ways.

• 4:35David Sims?

  One, it stars Griffin Dunn.

• 4:37Griffin Newman?

  We have not, I think, covered a film starring a Griffin to date.

• 4:43David Sims?

  Who are the other Griffins?

• 4:45Griffin Newman?

  We've covered Griffin Dunn in supporting roles.

• 4:48David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, have we? Well, well, well.

• 4:50Griffin Newman?

  Johnny Dangerously, of course, one of the funniest movies ever made.

• 4:53David Sims?

  Yep.

• 4:53Griffin Newman?

  Funny. Keep the knee in there.

• 4:57David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:58Griffin Newman?

  There aren't that many. We haven't, we haven't covered what?

• 5:01David Sims?

  Yeah, we haven't, I don't think we've covered any of his other movies.

• 5:03Griffin Newman?

  We haven't covered a Griffin Gluck film.

• 5:05David Sims?

  Oh, you know what? We watched Ocean's Eight on, um, Patreon. He's in that for a second.

• 5:09Griffin Newman?

  He is?

• 5:09David Sims?

  Yeah, he's a parole board officer.

• 5:11Griffin Newman?

  Griffin O'Neil, we haven't covered a Griffin O'Neil.

• 5:13David Sims?

  I'm just Googling actors named Griffin. We haven't covered Peter Griffin.

• 5:17Griffin Newman?

  We haven't, we haven't covered Stewie.

• 5:19David Sims?

  Now, you love Peter Griffin.

• 5:20Griffin Newman?

  Meg.

• 5:21David Sims?

  Right? You're the right generation for this.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  I think...

• 5:23Griffin Newman?

  Wait, are you just assuming?

• 5:25David Sims?

  I'm gonna lob a lot of stuff at our guest today that's about how she's young and I find young peoples taste different and mysterious.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Thank you for calling me young.

• 5:33David Sims?

  You are very young.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Um, I think the photo of Peter and Lois holding hands in front of the sunset is the most romantic image.

• 5:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, relationship.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  In existence, yeah.

• 5:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's a fucking idiot. He's hyper competent and mean.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  When I was probably eleven, I think I was in sixth grade, my phone ringtone was Stewie Griffin saying, "Mom," over and over and over again.

• 5:57David Sims?

  There you go.

• 5:57Griffin Newman?

  It, it is funny that it feels like the iteration from Simpsons to Family Guy is, you know how like the best Simpson episodes have that thing where Homer finally gets it? And he does one really thoughtful move that shows that he has some degree of emotional intelligence? And it kind of redeems his character? What if that never happens?

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:16Griffin Newman?

  What if it's just dumb shit all the time? And he never provides a single reason for Lois to stay with him? Other than the sunset?

• 6:24David Sims?

  Griffin O'Neil?

• 6:26Griffin Newman?

  I said Griffin O'Neil. I did say that.

• 6:28David Sims?

  Uh, Griffin, uh, Gluck, you said, I think?

• 6:32Griffin Newman?

  I said Griffin Gluck. I, I have...

• 6:33David Sims?

  There's not a lot.

• 6:34Griffin Newman?

  You would...

• 6:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 6:35Griffin Newman?

  Maybe not be surprised to hear I keep tabs on who else is out there.

• 6:39David Sims?

  There's some guy called Griffin Cleveland who kinda looks like you as a child.

• 6:44Griffin Newman?

  Oh, boy.

• 6:44David Sims?

  It's a little alarming. Have we covered the mythical creature in any film?

• 6:50Griffin Newman?

  Um, was, I think there was a Griffin in Dungeons and Dragons.

• 6:55David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:57Griffin Newman?

  If not both Dungeons and Dragons that we covered. I don't think we've covered a movie that has a Griffin character.

• 7:04David Sims?

  Uh, no, I think we're, I think we're done with those.

• 7:07Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 7:07David Sims?

  Okay, okay. There was one recently.

• 7:09Griffin Newman?

  There was one recently? What was it? Cause I just remembered one.

• 7:12David Sims?

  Fuck, you say yours.

• 7:13Griffin Newman?

  I think Gary Shandling plays a character named Griffin in Mixed Nuts, possibly?

• 7:19David Sims?

  I think, I mean, now we're definitely done. That, that, that, that's the end.

• 7:23Griffin Newman?

  This movie also, let's just say, is very much reflective of my temperament. This is, this is a movie that is very much my vibe.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:30David Sims?

  It's a downtown movie.

• 7:31Griffin Newman?

  It's...

• 7:32David Sims?

  And you are downtown Griffin Newman.

• 7:33Griffin Newman?

  And this is a downtown Griffin moves.

• 7:35David Sims?

  Gary Shandling's character in Mixed Nuts is called Stanley, so you made that up.

• 7:39Griffin Newman?

  There's some other Gary Shandling movie. You know what it is? It's Town and Country. We haven't covered it yet. We will cover it when we do Warren Beatty.

• 7:46David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 7:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 7:47David Sims?

  What's on your hat? Fucking, um, uh, Edge of Tomorrow, the, the like...

• 7:52Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Griff.

• 7:52David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes, Kit Gury.

• 7:54David Sims?

  Sure.

• 7:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 7:55David Sims?

  What's on your hat?

• 7:56Griffin Newman?

  So my, my hat is the graffiti from Jaws. I wore it because I thought it looked close to the classic bathroom graffiti in After Hours of the man having his dick bitten by a, a shark.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  Really beautiful.

• 8:13Griffin Newman?

  It's really good. And let's even, in, in honor of this episode, call it graffiti.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 8:18David Sims?

  Wow. Who's our guest?

• 8:19Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's like so stunned by the profundity of what I'm saying.

• 8:23David Sims?

  We're just really done.

• 8:24Griffin Newman?

  Our guest today.

• 8:24David Sims?

  Yes.

• 8:25Griffin Newman?

  And this is the first time we've had to do this. There was almost an act of negotiation, not between us, but, but with herself.

• 8:32David Sims?

  Within herself.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:33Griffin Newman?

  Of how she wanted to be introduced.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Story of my life.

• 8:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes. You, you may know them as, as merely a handle and an avatar.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:45Griffin Newman?

  At bald Andou, but that's not who's on the podcast today. Today, who's on the podcast is Ally Sivvy. That is how she is being introduced.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:53Griffin Newman?

  We, we feel good? Did that feel comfortable coming out?

• 8:56Speaker 02

  That felt good, that felt good.

• 8:57David Sims?

  Did you make the bald? And out picture like did you create that in Photoshop or whatever? No, someone made that for you.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  I met a friend on Twitter named Lachlan and I tweeted one day out of the blue. I was just in a weird mood. I was having sort of an after hours type of week. I was like, can anyone Photoshop and out bald for me? And there it was in my replies and the rest is history.

• 9:19David Sims?

  There she is.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  I did absolutely no labor.

• 9:22Griffin Newman?

  Now, did you have to acquire the rights at some point to just do a full buyout?

• 9:27Speaker 02

  No, I.

• 9:28Griffin Newman?

  Now that it's yours, kind of.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  For the first six months, I would have intense nightmares that Andau was gonna sue me.

• 9:35David Sims?

  Right. She's very litigious.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  She recently.

• 9:37Griffin Newman?

  Famously.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  No, I used to go around asking people like, do you think Andau is litigious? Like, what's the story? Um, cause she plays a villain so well, but then when I met her, she's like, honey, I would never sue you. And I was like, I needed to like, I just like my body just like unclenched in a way that I didn't realize I had to unclench.

• 9:54David Sims?

  Um, was she like, why am I bald? Like, did she, was she perturbed at all? Okay, okay.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  No, not perturbed. She was just like.

• 10:02David Sims?

  And I'm bald because.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  I was like, and I don't know. I could not tell you.

• 10:08Griffin Newman?

  I, I need to just close the loop on this quickly. The other two, of course.

• 10:12David Sims?

  I, we said we were done, but okay.

• 10:14Griffin Newman?

  I, and I just told you I need to close the loop.

• 10:17David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 10:17Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. D U N N E. Uh, David Spade's Invisible Man from the Hotel Transylvania trilogy, of course, is named Griffin, which is a reference to the character from the books in the original Universal movies.

• 10:29David Sims?

  Fantastic.

• 10:30Griffin Newman?

  And Michael Stolberg's Alien from Men in Black Three. End of list.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  I love Stolberg.

• 10:35Griffin Newman?

  I don't know.

• 10:36David Sims?

  I do love Stolberg.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  I just saw the clip of him talking to Timothy at the end of Call Me By Your Name and it made me cry.

• 10:43Griffin Newman?

  That's quite a good performance.

• 10:44David Sims?

  That clip will make you cry. It's funny. It would be funnier if you were like, I just saw the clip of him in Men in Black Three.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  I'm not, I'm not feeling it.

• 10:50David Sims?

  It made me cry.

• 10:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, at the end when he can't figure out what to order at the diner.

• 10:53David Sims?

  Is that what he does?

• 10:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Remember he's an alien where his brain is a planet and he can predict every timeline? He's got a choose your own adventure brain. And so he's trying to talk them into making the right branching timeline choices.

• 11:06David Sims?

  I.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Sounds like a tearjerker.

• 11:08Griffin Newman?

  It's kind of the after hours of the Men in Black trilogy. It mostly takes place in one night.

• 11:12David Sims?

  It's, I've seen that movie more than once.

• 11:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes, same.

• 11:14David Sims?

  Including on this podcast, but it's not really lodged in the old brainy box. But you know what is after hours?

• 11:20Griffin Newman?

  After hours.

• 11:21David Sims?

  This is a movie I've seen so many times. I put it on just because my job to watch the movie before I do this show.

• 11:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 11:28David Sims?

  And it was one of those things where I was like, I don't even need to do this. Like as it's happening, I was just like, yep, it's all in there already, baby.

• 11:33Griffin Newman?

  You know what's surprising? This is my favorite Martin Scorsese film unsurprisingly. It's not the one I think is best, but it's the one that obviously just sticks to my ribs, right? Uh, I've seen it many times. Every time I watch it, I'm a little surprised by it because my memory of it is different than the act of watching it in real time.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  I experienced this last night.

• 11:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  There were things that I completely forgot about.

• 11:53Griffin Newman?

  I always forget that he gets to her apartment that quickly.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:56David Sims?

  Right away.

• 11:57Griffin Newman?

  That I always think there's more conflict to get there because I know, well, he loses the money. He.

• 12:02David Sims?

  It's just the cab ride.

• 12:03Griffin Newman?

  No, and it's, it's, things get bad once he leaves her place.

• 12:07David Sims?

  I, yeah, I never take a yellow cab anymore. Uh, no one ever does sadly. You know, we're all taking Lyft or whatever.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Ugh.

• 12:15David Sims?

  Um, but, uh, that is what it was like.

• 12:17Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 12:18David Sims?

  You never put your seatbelt on.

• 12:19Griffin Newman?

  No, and also that was a real kind of throwback moment of that little, what do they even call it? The basket, I think he said.

• 12:27David Sims?

  Yeah, the little basket you put the money in.

• 12:28Griffin Newman?

  Your yellow cab thing. See, our guest is so young that she doesn't even know what we're talking about. But that there was the Plexiglas partition and then there was this little kind of like basket with a hinge where you would stuff the money in and then push it and then they would pull it out the other side. And it's such a dumb fucking rookie move on his part to be like, I'm storing it here for later for the payment.

• 12:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 12:51Griffin Newman?

  Rather than do it at the moment.

• 12:53David Sims?

  Yes, you do, you know, he's, I, I, I also, the, the, um, the, the receipt sound of a taxi.

• 13:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:02David Sims?

  Which was used for the Smoke Monster in Lost.

• 13:05Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 13:06David Sims?

  If you ever listen to it.

• 13:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes, kind of an after hours on an island.

• 13:10David Sims?

  Burning my brain.

• 13:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, things go wrong.

• 13:13David Sims?

  Um, hello, Ally. Welcome to Blank Check.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 13:16David Sims?

  You're welcome.

• 13:17Griffin Newman?

  There was some back and forth in terms of figuring out the right episode to get you on. We knew we wanted you on the show. It feels like we landed on the right place.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:26Griffin Newman?

  Especially with this being your favorite.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  This is my favorite.

• 13:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Um, it's so good.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  I love Alice though too, but this is my, this is my number one.

• 13:35David Sims?

  Right. You were thinking maybe doing Alice.

• 13:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:37David Sims?

  Doesn't live here anymore. If you want to shout out Alice, of course now.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Shoot the dog.

• 13:41David Sims?

  Um, but you know, this sort of young downtown energy of after hours, it's a New Yorky movie about being crazy. We all can relate to this, I feel, in a very profound way. I have never been a diner waitress.

• 13:56Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 13:57David Sims?

  I have been a little bit of a Paul Hackett.

• 13:59Griffin Newman?

  It, it, we, I think everyone has, Paul Hackett is like the shadow self. He's exactly how you hope you were not perceived by others in the world, right?

• 14:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:08Griffin Newman?

  Not, not as evil, but just like.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  He's so stupid. I forgot how stupid he was.

• 14:13Griffin Newman?

  He's so lame in a lot of ways.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:16Griffin Newman?

  You know, and it's fascinating because when he wants to be, Griffin Dunn can be like the most charming person in the world.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  There are, there are moments of that in that.

• 14:25Griffin Newman?

  But it feels like Scorsese was like, you, you gotta tamp it down.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:29Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, don't win over the audience at every moment.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  He's like, don't have sex for eight weeks.

• 14:34Griffin Newman?

  One of the great stories.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  And.

• 14:36Griffin Newman?

  Do you know this, Ben?

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Be a loser.

• 14:37David Sims?

  We will talk.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 14:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, there's, there's some great, uh, details about this, but this is also, this is a fascinating, just to get ahead of it. This is a project Griffin Dunn develops because he doesn't feel like there are good roles out there. And he's like, I'm gonna make the movies for myself. His producing partner is Amy Robinson, who was the female lead in Mean Streets. And this movie, in one of the most fascinating, what if, a what if alternate timeline that only Griffin from Men in Black Three could consider, was originally offered and signed on to direct the debut film of Tim Burton. Off of Frankenweenie, it was supposed to be Tim Burton's debut feature film.

• 15:18David Sims?

  But we definitely talked about this on our Tim Burton mini series, I think. Yes, it sure came up.

• 15:22Griffin Newman?

  Fascinating thing. And then Amy Robinson's like, it's a crazy idea. Can I send this to Marty and see if he wants to do it?

• 15:29David Sims?

  Why not?

• 15:31Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna say it's always worth just shooting Marty a text.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Try.

• 15:36David Sims?

  I know his phone number.

• 15:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:37David Sims?

  One eight hundred Scorsese.

• 15:38Griffin Newman?

  One eight hundred Scorsese.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  It's a direct line. It works every time.

• 15:41David Sims?

  He can text from it and everything.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Wasn't Burton also like, I don't want to get in the way of Marty. I give it to him.

• 15:47David Sims?

  We'll, right, we'll talk about it, but right, Burton was like, Martin Scorsese, I'll do something else. I'll do Peewee.

• 15:52Griffin Newman?

  I, I will, so I.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  That's crazy. I had no idea that he directed Peewee until very recently.

• 15:58David Sims?

  Educating the youth.

• 15:59Griffin Newman?

  A social fashion.

• 15:59David Sims?

  I'm gonna stop it with it now. You are a grown person.

• 16:02Griffin Newman?

  When you watch the, the Peewee Asymself documentary, that's so fucking good. Paul Rubens talks about how haunted he was by like, Tim Burton getting all the credit for Peewee. Where he was like, this guy was like a rocket ship and everyone assumed he was the genius and I wish I had directed it myself. And then nowadays people are like, he directed that? Burton started there? He wasn't birthed out in Beetlejuice?

• 16:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 16:28Griffin Newman?

  Um, the, I, I know Griffin Dunn a little bit. We'll talk about it further in this episode. But the way he told the story to me one time is that he was really contrite and he went to Tim Burton and he was like, Tim, this is like a really difficult conversation, but Martin Scorsese is kind of interested in doing this movie. Now, I'm not like firing you. We can talk about it. And Burton was like, are you kidding me? You owe me zero apology. If Martin Scorsese wants to make your movie, I wouldn't dare make a movie that he's even flirting with.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:00Griffin Newman?

  Like, fuck, settled. Absolutely. You owe me no apologies. All good. Congrats to you. And then he just like immediately rebounds onto Peewee, which comes out the same year or the year after this?

• 17:13David Sims?

  I think it's the year after.

• 17:14Griffin Newman?

  Is it eighty six or eighty seven?

• 17:16David Sims?

  This, no.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  After Hours is eighty five.

• 17:17David Sims?

  This film is eighty five, but so is Peewee.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 17:21David Sims?

  Same year. Yeah, this, this.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  What came out first, After Hours?

• 17:23David Sims?

  This came out a month later, September.

• 17:26Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  Wait, what's the release date of each one? I'm doing sign.

• 17:29David Sims?

  September thirteenth for After Hours.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  That's Virgo.

• 17:31David Sims?

  Virgo, which does not fit After Hours at all.

• 17:33Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 17:34David Sims?

  But I guess, I guess studios probably don't take that into account when setting release dates.

• 17:39Griffin Newman?

  I'm seeing here that Peewee's sign is a pancake face.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 17:42Griffin Newman?

  With bacon mouth.

• 17:43David Sims?

  Peewee, August ninth, so a Leo.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  That's a Leo. That makes sense a little.

• 17:47David Sims?

  Makes more sense.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:48Griffin Newman?

  Peewee's a lion.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:50David Sims?

  Yeah, he's got a, he's got.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  God.

• 17:53Griffin Newman?

  A mighty mane.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  We all have those images from childhood that are like so formative and burned into our brains and Peewee rescuing animals from the burning.

• 18:00Griffin Newman?

  Um. One of the funniest.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Hat stores, just like the, it's like my first memory almost.

• 18:05Griffin Newman?

  That, that's.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Beautiful.

• 18:06David Sims?

  You were raised well.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  My dad was a huge Peewee head.

• 18:09Griffin Newman?

  It's maybe the funniest movie ever made. I saw it again recently in theaters and it, it is insane how joke dense that movie is and how 50% of the jokes are jokes that still feel like one of one.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  I need to rewatch. I haven't seen it as an adult.

• 18:22David Sims?

  I don't think it's the funniest movie ever made, but as I'm sure we said at the time, it is maybe the funniest movie ever made where the ingredients do not seem, like you're like, how could this be good? And then you watch it and you're like, oh my God, it's so good. You know what I mean?

• 18:36Griffin Newman?

  Almost everything that's funny in it, you can't explain in a way that sounds funny.

• 18:40David Sims?

  But we, we covered, well, if, if you ever thought, obviously you weren't on our.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  No, trying to explain anything kind of kills it every time.

• 18:48Griffin Newman?

  Anyway, let's explain the movie After Hours.

• 18:50David Sims?

  When did you first see After Hours, Griffin Newman? If this is a big sort of Griffin movie.

• 18:54Griffin Newman?

  My parents would joke that I was named after Griffin Dunn.

• 18:57David Sims?

  Funny.

• 18:57Griffin Newman?

  Because I was named after nothing and for no reason.

• 19:01David Sims?

  They just like the name.

• 19:01Griffin Newman?

  Said before, my parents had lists that they had created and didn't agree on anything. My mom, it was all like, uh, Gaelic names.

• 19:11David Sims?

  Gaelic? Oh, French names.

• 19:12Griffin Newman?

  Seamus. No, no, like Irish.

• 19:14David Sims?

  Oh, Gaelic. Yeah.

• 19:16Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry. Gaelic names.

• 19:18David Sims?

  Seamus?

• 19:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 19:19David Sims?

  Imagine if he was called Seamus. I cannot.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  I can kind of see it.

• 19:22Griffin Newman?

  It was shit like that. And then as my father put it.

• 19:25David Sims?

  We could be like, for shame.

• 19:28David Sims?

  You're late again. Yeah, okay.

• 19:30Griffin Newman?

  As my father put it, his list of names.

• 19:33David Sims?

  Wait, that kind of worked.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  I know. But it would have to be David and Seamus.

• 19:37David Sims?

  Well.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  That's fine.

• 19:39David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Griffin Newman?

  Here's, here's the, the other side of the equation. My father's list was all, as he puts it, uh, R and B singer or blaxploitation character names.

• 19:49David Sims?

  Such as?

• 19:49Griffin Newman?

  So the top two he always mentioned were Rufus and Tyrone.

• 19:55David Sims?

  Your parents were so cracked out, my friend.

• 19:59Griffin Newman?

  I don't know. They were living that fucking after hours.

• 20:01David Sims?

  You come out and they're like.

• 20:02Griffin Newman?

  New York 80s downtown.

• 20:04David Sims?

  Tyrone for this guy. No, no, no, no, no.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  He's like, my parents wanted to name me Sinbad.

• 20:08Griffin Newman?

  But they were basically like Griffin is the only name that kind of fits into both like lines of thinking.

• 20:15David Sims?

  Uh huh, uh huh, sort of.

• 20:17Griffin Newman?

  Was named for, yeah, zero reason. And then they'd always joke when people were like, why do you name him Griffin? It was like Griffin Dunn, of course, Griffin Dunn. So I, when I'd ask who's Griffin Dunn? Cause he wasn't in a lot of kids movies. They'd be like, he's this guy and he was big in the 80s and he did this movie after hours. And then my parents would explain after hours to me and it felt like a mythical premise for a movie. Like I remember from a very young age, hearing it and thinking that's one of the best ideas for a movie I've ever heard of. A guy goes downtown, loses the $20 in his wallet. And then he's stuck and he can't get back home and he can't get on the subway and yada, yada, yada. And I was like, that sounds fun. I can't wait until I'm old enough to see that. And I probably saw it when I was like 13 or 14.

• 20:59David Sims?

  Sure. Okay. So pretty early.

• 21:01Griffin Newman?

  But it felt a little faded.

• 21:03David Sims?

  Yeah. I saw this movie in college when I was like, okay, I'll watch all the margins, right? And this was the, and I think so many people have this experience. I felt I was discovering something.

• 21:12Griffin Newman?

  It's fun.

• 21:13David Sims?

  Well, but also just like, what's this one? My God.

• 21:16Griffin Newman?

  He directed this?

• 21:17David Sims?

  Right. Like, you know, just that, yes. Which is great when you're, you know, a youth and you're figuring out movies all by yourself. And the internet's not telling you what to do.

• 21:24Griffin Newman?

  We were talking about this with Todd, but I feel like for a while, uh, King of Comedy was the, I'm not like the other Sazie fans.

• 21:32David Sims?

  I think it's this.

• 21:33Griffin Newman?

  And things have now, I, I think swung around to after hours. I think our generation, and I say our generation, because we're all at the exact same age in this room right now.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. I just turned 40.

• 21:43Griffin Newman?

  We're all.

• 21:43David Sims?

  This is 40.

• 21:44Griffin Newman?

  Young 40 and thriving.

• 21:45David Sims?

  Paul Rudd, you're, who else is in that movie?

• 21:48Griffin Newman?

  Leslie Mann, Jason Segel, Albert Brooks.

• 21:50David Sims?

  What's Segel doing in that one?

• 21:51Griffin Newman?

  Segel.

• 21:52David Sims?

  He's being the horny guy from Knocked Up?

• 21:53Griffin Newman?

  He expresses his character and he's a personal fitness coach.

• 21:55David Sims?

  Is he good?

• 21:56Griffin Newman?

  Kind of.

• 21:59David Sims?

  He's very good in Knocked Up.

• 22:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 22:01David Sims?

  Because you're like, he made a choice, which I think is funny. Everyone else that is just like, I'll just be myself, which is fine.

• 22:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 22:08David Sims?

  But Segel's like, I'm gonna do this thing. Right.

• 22:10Griffin Newman?

  It's also funny that that's what leads to the launchpad of him being a leading man when none of his leading man roles are like that.

• 22:17David Sims?

  Oh, right.

• 22:17Griffin Newman?

  Um, but, uh, it's also funny that he's the only one of the friend group in that movie, including Seth Rogen. That they're like, we've kept in touch with Segel, that guy who hit on your wife at the club.

• 22:28David Sims?

  Who kept talking about tits. Right. Yeah. Um, do you care about the cinema to Apitower?

• 22:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:33David Sims?

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 22:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 22:37David Sims?

  What was I just saying?

• 22:39Griffin Newman?

  Uh, this is 40, we're all 40, uh, that this has become the cool one.

• 22:44David Sims?

  Yes.

• 22:44Griffin Newman?

  When did you see this for the first time?

• 22:46David Sims?

  Yep.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Last month.

• 22:47David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 22:48Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  This was like my Marty, like a big Marty blind spot for me.

• 22:51Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  And I knew it was, it seemed like a very me movie.

• 22:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  I don't know why I had never tapped in, but immediately I was like, oh, this is, this is my favorite one.

• 23:01Griffin Newman?

  Do you think part of things circling around to this becoming the cool pick? Is that it is such a snapshot of a time where you could be this disconnected?

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:13Griffin Newman?

  That everything that was like an anxiety dream about this movie when it was released of imagine everything went wrong? Is almost a little bit like satisfying to think about, like you could just actually, if you didn't have $20 in your pocket, be off the grid. There's no phone, there's no Apple Pay. There's like, you're fucked. And New York could still have neighborhoods that were this undeveloped?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so, Soho now, like they're putting an Ikea in Soho. Like it's just such a different, we needed this.

• 23:42Griffin Newman?

  Oh my God, thank, oh.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  It's just such a different New York.

• 23:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  The whole time I was like, God, his Instagram stories would be going crazy right now.

• 23:49Griffin Newman?

  Right. He'd be posting through it. He would be posting through it.

• 23:52David Sims?

  It's so much better now. And then, not now, now it's bad.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  But I was also like, you can walk. Like I, I understand that defeats the whole purpose of the movie. I don't want to be that guy, but like out, like less than 90 minutes, you can make it up to 91st from there. Like I've done it.

• 24:06Griffin Newman?

  I think it says a lot about the characterization of this movie that you buy that Paul is a guy who would go, I can find a shortcut rather than just start walking uptown. And I also think part of why this movie being set specifically in Soho at this exact time period is good? Because it kind of feels like a place where it'd be tough to get your bearings in New York.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right below the grid.

• 24:29Griffin Newman?

  Right. You're below the grid.

• 24:30David Sims?

  Thompson Street, what is that?

• 24:32Griffin Newman?

  Right. The blocks are weird shapes. You're, you're below numbers.

• 24:36David Sims?

  As a Soho, uh, uh, worker, the blocks aren't that weird.

• 24:40Griffin Newman?

  You've got some weird, you've got some triangles in there and shit.

• 24:42David Sims?

  If you go over to the west side, I suppose.

• 24:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, but also it's these big wide open streets without lights.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  It was so dark.

• 24:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's wet ass sidewalks.

• 24:53David Sims?

  I want to make a Soho canon and I, I need to look, you know, Ms. 45, the, for our movie is also, oh, that's one. Uh, Unfaithful, the Adrian Lyne movie has a lot of great Soho stuff. I, you know, it's such an interesting landscape, uh, mini landscape within New York because of what you're talking about.

• 25:10Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:10David Sims?

  You know, the kind of weird, uh, the cobblestones, uh, big open streets uniformly, like, you know, all the beautiful cast iron buildings. Like it's, it looks a little, it's like gorgeous, but it's a little encased. It's a little different. I don't know.

• 25:23Griffin Newman?

  The last time that Soho is captured as just being like, this is where freak artists lives in giant cavernous apartments.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:31Griffin Newman?

  That no one wants.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  That apartment is exactly what I thought New York was going to be as a kid.

• 25:36David Sims?

  This is whatever. My mom has a story about this when she lived in Manhattan at this time. And she was downtown in Soho, like getting coffee at some cool coffee place with her friend, you know, and they're being cool New Yorkers. And then her friend saw her mom on a walking tour of Soho, being like led around by, you know, in a group of like nice old ladies being shown and, and my mom's friend was just like, oh, Soho is over. This is it. That's it. Like fucking like this is happening? It's over. It's not cool anymore.

• 26:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:05David Sims?

  And Soho is over.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 26:07Griffin Newman?

  It is funny.

• 26:07David Sims?

  Now it's all boutiques where if I walked in there, they would throw me out.

• 26:10Griffin Newman?

  This movie might've prolonged Soho's scariness for another decade where even as it was being developed from a distance, outsiders weren't thinking to visit there.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  No, now it's just people waiting in line for like a croissant that sucks.

• 26:25David Sims?

  And they do suck. The croissants do suck. We both work in Soho. They're all bad.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  If you're ever waiting in line in Manhattan, for something, for anything.

• 26:35Griffin Newman?

  For anything.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  It's not going to be good.

• 26:36Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 26:37David Sims?

  This is.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  You should never wait in a Manhattan line.

• 26:40David Sims?

  What about like Lindustree Pizza?

• 26:42Griffin Newman?

  No, no. There's, there's one thing even worse, which is paying someone to wait in line for you. If you do that, go to the Gulag.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:50Griffin Newman?

  That's the least New Yorker shit in the world. I know people who have done that and they're excommunicated for my life.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  You're gonna want to walk to the Hudson and then just keep walking.

• 26:57Griffin Newman?

  Keep, walk into it.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Keep going.

• 26:59Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 26:59David Sims?

  Maybe you'll see something.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, now there's a Supreme store.

• 27:02Griffin Newman?

  Take a long walk off of Chelsea Pier. That's what I say to those people.

• 27:06David Sims?

  This is a very New York episode, but that makes sense because we're talking about after hours, a great 80s New York movie.

• 27:12Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:12David Sims?

  I'm going to open the dossier, guys. We're just, we're just, we're just, you know, we're circling it.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  It's one of the classic things that happens on this fire show.

• 27:21Griffin Newman?

  I like that she's canonizing our iconic status.

• 27:26David Sims?

  Our show is fire. It is not chopped and unk.

• 27:29Griffin Newman?

  No. Our show has never been less un.

• 27:31Speaker 03

  I don't know, guys.

• 27:32David Sims?

  Yeah, it's pretty chopped.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  And we're pretty un.

• 27:34David Sims?

  We are very un.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  It's not chopped, it's approaching un.

• 27:36Griffin Newman?

  Neither you nor I are uncles.

• 27:39David Sims?

  Neither am I.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  No, I am an uncle.

• 27:41Griffin Newman?

  You are?

• 27:41David Sims?

  Ben is?

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:42David Sims?

  Like a by marriage uncle?

• 27:44Speaker 03

  My wife's older brother.

• 27:45David Sims?

  Uncle by marriage, yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  Had a son, I guess a year ago.

• 27:49David Sims?

  Wow.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:50David Sims?

  Shout out.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Uncle Ben.

• 27:51Griffin Newman?

  Uncle Ben.

• 27:52David Sims?

  Watch out for it. Watch out for the Green Goblin or any other muggers.

• 27:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I also was gonna say, watch, watch out for the woke police. They're gonna kick your face off the rice bag.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Have your wrists been shooting weird shit?

• 28:03David Sims?

  So for normal. Everyone's just got an Uncle Ben thing they wanted to say.

• 28:07Griffin Newman?

  Stumbling over each other.

• 28:20Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 28:20David Sims?

  Yes. Mmm.

• 28:24David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's cow?

• 28:25Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 28:26David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 28:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 28:33David Sims?

  Okay.

• 28:33Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 28:38David Sims?

  Wow.

• 28:38Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 28:40David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up. While, while you, while you tell the, the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 28:47Griffin Newman?

  Well, Mubi is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Purating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what Mubi does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 29:00David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 29:01Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 29:07David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 29:08Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schombren, Past and Future Guest.

• 29:11David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, a great friend.

• 29:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 29:16David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 29:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 29:22David Sims?

  You know, legends and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 29:25Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 29:26David Sims?

  Friend of the show Zach Cherry.

• 29:28Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 29:28David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 29:29Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 29:30David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Palmitan. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like it obviously has, it was out in theaters, uh, this summer and now it's on Mubi.

• 29:41Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 29:55David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 29:59Griffin Newman?

  What happens? It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being, uh, an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 30:11David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on Mubi and you can try Mubi free for 30 days at Mubi.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 30:23Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it. The 30 days for Miasma.

• 30:28David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 30:34Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 30:34David Sims?

  Yes.

• 30:35Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 30:56David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 31:15Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 31:31David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby-atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation. Written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen2dracula.

• 32:09David Sims?

  The King of Comedy is the prior film in Martin Scorsese's career, but it's not successful.

• 32:14Griffin Newman?

  Made about 200 domestic. Oh, right.

• 32:15David Sims?

  Right.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Also, everyone is just pupkin now. That is every person now.

• 32:20Griffin Newman?

  This was-

• 32:20David Sims?

  That is unfortunately true. It was very on the money about where fans of things were headed.

• 32:26Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:28David Sims?

  But Martin Scorsese, of course, after making that movie, is very focused on making his follow-up, The Last Temptation of Christ, okay?

• 32:35Griffin Newman?

  Which also-

• 32:36David Sims?

  He read the novel.

• 32:37Griffin Newman?

  Right. He wanted to have made 10 years earlier.

• 32:39David Sims?

  Right. Paul Schrader had condensed a 600-page novel to a 90-minute script for him. He rewrote it with J. Cox. Marty added a little bit with J. Cox in '83. Paramount, which is headed by Barry Diller and Michael Eisner and Jeff Katzenberg, you know, who obviously all, you know, dominate Hollywood for the next 15, 20 years in various ways. Greenlight the movie. And then, as they start to like scout locations, figure out casting, hear from nuns and priests around the world, Paramount gets cold feet.

• 33:12Griffin Newman?

  Katzenberg and Eisner suddenly find out that the movie is about Jesus Christ, something that had-

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Like it's not in the title.

• 33:21Griffin Newman?

  Up until that point, yes.

• 33:22David Sims?

  You know, Aidan Quinn was gonna play the Christ in that film. And you, obviously, he's very young and beautiful at that time. And they apparently were okay with that. Marty says that some of the other casting people were nervous about will probably cover that whole saga whenever we, you know, for our Last Temptation episode.

• 33:38Griffin Newman?

  I imagine so.

• 33:39David Sims?

  And then the religious protests start to, you know, bubble up and all that. And Paramount is just, and also, they were gonna shoot in Israel, and back then, you just didn't do that that much.

• 33:51Griffin Newman?

  Why? It's a normal place.

• 33:52David Sims?

  I don't mean Israel specifically. I mean, just like, you know, shoot giant parts of your movie in far-off places. Like, you know-

• 33:58Griffin Newman?

  This is true. Everything was LA.

• 34:00David Sims?

  Right. Like, the way Marty puts it is like Star Trek IV, the reason they're in San Francisco is the Paramount was like, "That's as far as we want you going," you know?

• 34:10Griffin Newman?

  That's basically an overseas-

• 34:11David Sims?

  Yeah, like a one-hour flight from LA, basically, that's fine.

• 34:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 34:15David Sims?

  So, uh, it falls apart. The right stuff comes out. The Ervin Winkler production, obviously-

• 34:22Griffin Newman?

  Another huge flop.

• 34:23David Sims?

  -Kaufman movie does so poorly, that is the final blow.

• 34:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 34:27David Sims?

  That they're just like, this auteur shit, big-budget auteur shit, we just don't like it. Jack Lang, the French Minister of Culture, then tries to get French money just from like the government of France-

• 34:39Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:40David Sims?

  -to fund that movie?

• 34:41Griffin Newman?

  Ho, ho, ho.

• 34:42David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 34:43Griffin Newman?

  Very well said.

• 34:44David Sims?

  Jesus would have to say that in the movie. That's the proviso, you know? Harry Ufland is Marty's super agent at the time. He, you know, he starts shopping around other studios, but Marty's like, "I need to survive. Like, my last movie was a bomb."

• 34:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 34:59David Sims?

  "I can't go crazy." Like, my response to Christ falling apart can't be just to, like, go renegade.

• 35:06Griffin Newman?

  This is his Raiders of the Lost Ark. "I need to show people I can be responsible and play ball."

• 35:12David Sims?

  There is a screenplay written by Joseph Minion.

• 35:15Griffin Newman?

  Quite a good, quite a good name.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  21, right?

• 35:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 35:18David Sims?

  That's so crazy.

• 35:19Griffin Newman?

  I think, I think it was a film school project, right?

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was his senior thesis, I think. He got an A.

• 35:25David Sims?

  Uh-

• 35:26Speaker 02

  Congratulations.

• 35:27David Sims?

  He got a gold star. The film was originally called Lies. Then it was retitled A Night in Soho. It was written as his Columbia thesis. He said, "I was under the spell of Kafka. I was obsessed with Orson Welles's The Trial." Also, things like David Mamet plays, which are like set in one night or whatever. Henry Miller, Norman Mailer's The American Dream. "I was frantically, like, moving apartments in New York when I wrote it." So, that energy is in there a little bit. Like, I felt homeless in New York, right? Like, you know, that's these putting a little bit of that in. He was just kinda going crazy, and he wrote After Hours, which is so good.

• 36:09Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's a pretty perfect screenplay.

• 36:11David Sims?

  It really is. The film's obviously well-directed by Martin Scorsese. Have you heard him?

• 36:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes. You're never gonna believe this, David. It's actually a really funny coincidence. He is the director we're currently covering on this fire, unchopped podcast.

• 36:25David Sims?

  But, but this, I do think this screenplay is, is so clever and perfect. Yes.

• 36:29Griffin Newman?

  It is. Um, it's, it's a money in the bank premise. It is one of those movies that kind of is like unofficially remade every five years.

• 36:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 36:39Griffin Newman?

  I feel like people keep trying to do it, and no one has ever gotten close.

• 36:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 36:43Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's wild how it feels easy-

• 36:46David Sims?

  The one crazy night, sort of-

• 36:48Griffin Newman?

  Well, you could just riff on this. And even the amount of people who have done the New York version of it alone, I mean, even in the last 10 years, there was The Night Before is basically doing this on Christmas Eve.

• 36:59David Sims?

  Nick and Nora's Infinite Playlist.

• 37:02Griffin Newman?

  Uh, The Lovebirds, the completely forgotten Michael Showalter-directed Issa Rae Kumail Nanjiani comedy.

• 37:08David Sims?

  I never saw that, because that was kind of a COVID movie.

• 37:11Griffin Newman?

  It was one of the first planned wide theatrical release movies that they just announced it's going, it's going on fucking streaming. They sold it to Netflix immediately. It's not very good. And you, you, I remember even, I auditioned for like a couple small parts in that. And on paper, you were like, "Yeah, sure. It's been too long since someone tried to make After Hours. These are the right people. This is, this will be funny." It never works.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  No. I think, like you said, it just, setting it in any modern year is not, it just takes the magic out of it.

• 37:39David Sims?

  Phone heard it.

• 37:40Griffin Newman?

  That's a lot of it. And I also think a lot of it is that people try to pile up too much incidents. They get too crazy with the one crazy night.

• 37:49David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. The, what's, you know, the way that Date Night descends into like guns and spies and all that shit.

• 37:54Griffin Newman?

  Another perfect example. Date Night is action movie After Hours.

• 37:57David Sims?

  Have a good time. Oh, sure.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  I mean, and Uncut Gems.

• 38:01David Sims?

  The, the worst version, right? Uncut Gems.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  They share so much DNA with it.

• 38:05Griffin Newman?

  That also, it goes a little more into crime thriller. Do you know what I'm saying?

• 38:09David Sims?

  Yes, you're right.

• 38:10Griffin Newman?

  Because I think if it's like, things spiraling out of control after crime go wrong, that's different than the After Hours, which is quote-unquote, "This happens to an ordinary person."

• 38:20David Sims?

  Well, okay.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:21David Sims?

  Ordinary-ish, right. You know, the yuppie nightmare.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  It's funny the whole way through. You're stressed out, but it remains funny the entire time. There's a point-

• 38:27David Sims?

  It's hilarious. And you wanna see him go through the ringer. No, there's a point.

• 38:30Griffin Newman?

  That's the other part of it. Yeah. Go on, Ally.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  No, there's just, there's a point in any safty crime movie where like, the anxiety just overtakes everything. You're not feeling any humor anymore.

• 38:39David Sims?

  Yes. And you're with a person who, through some lenses, might be considered villainous. I mean, in good time.

• 38:45Griffin Newman?

  Toxic.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:46David Sims?

  He's a little, yeah, a little toxic.

• 38:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, main character syndrome at times. But I think that's another part of it, is that this movie has a take on this character because he is the yuppie nightmare. People miscalculate thinking, "Oh, if you make it more of an everyman, and the audience is let in and the character's a surrogate, it becomes more of a conventionally fun comedy where you're watching them struggle."

• 39:12David Sims?

  Them going, "What? What's happening?"

• 39:14Griffin Newman?

  Instead, you want a character where you wanna see the screws turning on them.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. And him being sort of an everyman makes it better because as soon as Rosanna Arquette dies, you're like, "Well, where the fuck is this going for the next hour?"

• 39:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 39:26Speaker 02

  When everything is coming from the people around him, you don't know.

• 39:29Griffin Newman?

  You think it's good that Rosanna Arquette dies? You like her death?

• 39:32David Sims?

  I think of his reaction to it as so funny.

• 39:34Griffin Newman?

  It's so funny.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  He's like, "Fuck."

• 39:36David Sims?

  Uh, exactly, exactly. Uh, JJ wants to point out, and I think this is interesting, you know, the, the unmentioned thing is that the film is very obviously influenced by Joe Frank, the writer and performer of radio dramas and monologues. It's been alleged by Joe Frank and others that the opening act is basically ripping off a 1982 monologue he had called Lies, which is the first title of this script.

• 40:03Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 40:03David Sims?

  Uh, which had this 10-minute segment about meeting a weird woman in Greenwich Village. And he says, like, "I saw the movie. I was like, oh, yeah, like, this part is ripping me off." And then he was like, "To be clear, the rest of the movie's not." Like, yeah. It, then it goes in whatever direction it wants, but I'm clearly, you know, being ripped off here. A 2,000-profile of him by Salon, remember Salon?

• 40:26Griffin Newman?

  Oh, boy, do I.

• 40:27David Sims?

  Uh, says that he was paid off for a film that had plagiarized some of his dialogue. That definitely is After Hours. They don't say the name, but that he did get a settlement one day for something like that. Uh, you can listen to the monologue. He's linked to it. And I'll read this, uh, I'll read this URL right now. No, I won't.

• 40:44Griffin Newman?

  It'll be linked in the description.

• 40:45David Sims?

  Sure, we can. It's, it's in the dossier there. You can, you can link it out. Anyway, this script finds its way to Amy Robinson and Griffin Dunn via one of his teachers, the Dusan Makajev, I don't know, he's a Serbian director who taught at Columbia, gives it over to Amy Robinson, who loves the script, thinks it's so crazy and dark and cool. And I mean, I guess, the real question is, is like, is Griffin Dunn famous?

• 41:14Griffin Newman?

  No, no, I, this is what I want to zoom out for a second to talk about. So Amy Robinson-

• 41:19David Sims?

  Who produced the film with Griffin Dunn.

• 41:21Griffin Newman?

  And is very good in Mean Streets and basically doesn't act again. Has a couple little things, but was very open about-

• 41:27David Sims?

  She's the female lead of Mean Streets, to be clear.

• 41:30Griffin Newman?

  She was very open about that she just felt like the stuff she was reading was dog shit.

• 41:35David Sims?

  Sure.

• 41:36Griffin Newman?

  And I think she-

• 41:36David Sims?

  Not Dog Day.

• 41:37Griffin Newman?

  No, she wishes she was reading Dog Day, but she was like, I was just in Mean Streets. And she's reading scripts where she's like, all of this sucks. I don't want to be in bad movies after I've been spoiled by being in a great movie made by one of the best directors ever. So she starts getting more interested in producing. Griffin Dunn is a very well-connected young man. His father's Dominic Dunn, he comes from the Dunn Didion sort of larger orbit, right? So this is someone who's kind of like, from a young age, at the nexus of like, high culture in the United States of America, and certainly in the tri-state area. And I think he had a similar kind of frustration of,

• 42:18Griffin Newman?

  I have all this ambition to be an actor and the auditions I'm getting suck. Like, he just has all this piss and vinegar to be like, I'm gonna find projects that I produce for myself to star in, so I can will the kind of vehicles I think I should have into the world. He also produces a ton of shit that he's not in. Like, he and Amy Robinson have an incredible producing track, including Chili Scenes of Winter-

• 42:42David Sims?

  Which is-

• 42:43Griffin Newman?

  And Running on Empty, yes.

• 42:45David Sims?

  Correct. That's like, the kind of stuff they're working on while this is, right, all coming together.

• 42:49Griffin Newman?

  It's a little like Michael Douglas, where it's like, despite being so well-connected, I'm not clicking as a movie star. Let me start producing stuff and maybe eventually, if I'm legitimate enough as a producer, I can produce my own vehicles and people won't say this is self-dealing or whatever.

• 43:06David Sims?

  Chili Scenes of Winter is John McLean Silver, it's a great movie. That's like 79. Baby, It's You.

• 43:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 43:15David Sims?

  That's a John Sells movie, never seen that.

• 43:18Griffin Newman?

  That's his first, he has a small role in that, right? He's not the lead, it's Richard-

• 43:24David Sims?

  Roseanne Arquette and Vic, Vincent Spahn-

• 43:26Griffin Newman?

  Vincent Spahn.

• 43:27David Sims?

  Yes, also the first Robert Downey Jr. movie. And he would later play Iron Man.

• 43:32Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me, his first movie is Pound.

• 43:34David Sims?

  Yes, his first movie as a, like, an adult.

• 43:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I just, Pound is an incredible Cinematrix play. It, does Griffin Dunn have an acting role in that one?

• 43:43David Sims?

  Not that I can see, but maybe he had a tiny one, let's-

• 43:46Griffin Newman?

  But obviously it connects him with Roseanne Arquette, it connects him with-

• 43:50David Sims?

  He has a small role in Chili Scenes. He has a, no, he's just a producer, maybe, but obviously, but he is obviously in American Werewolf in London.

• 43:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 43:58David Sims?

  The John Landis movie.

• 44:00Griffin Newman?

  Which he's excellent in.

• 44:01David Sims?

  He's excellent in, he's very good. He's not the star, David Naughton is the main guy.

• 44:05Griffin Newman?

  But he's the guy who pops, he's the fun character.

• 44:07David Sims?

  Cause he's all, he has the dreams where he's all fucked up.

• 44:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and it's just, he's got the color, you know, he's got all the exciting-

• 44:13David Sims?

  Have you seen that film?

• 44:14Speaker 02

  A long time ago, I don't remember much of it.

• 44:17David Sims?

  It's, it's very good.

• 44:18Griffin Newman?

  An excellent movie made by someone who's responsible for several deaths. In that sort of canon, it's pretty close to the top.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:25Griffin Newman?

  I would say, but it's got this great device where at the beginning of the movie, spoilers for the basic premise of American Werewolf in London, these two backpackers are mauled by werewolves and, or by wolves, and one survives and one doesn't. And the one who survives is haunted by his friend. And Griffin Dunn is the friend who appears to him in these long conversations, but every time he shows up, his body's decaying further. So it starts with just, he's got the scars and then his skin is rotting and then he eventually becomes a skeleton. That's the other thing. So every image of him-

• 44:57Speaker 02

  That's awesome, yeah.

• 44:58Griffin Newman?

  In the movie, past the first 20 minutes, is iconic. Because it's Griffin Dunn wearing Rick Baker at the peak of his game.

• 45:05David Sims?

  Impressive, yeah, just-

• 45:07Griffin Newman?

  And he gets to be the fun character because he's the sort of afterlife, let me explain to you what's happening guy.

• 45:13David Sims?

  Now, in After Hours, he's the After Hours guy.

• 45:16Griffin Newman?

  Right, and his skin is pretty good.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 45:19David Sims?

  Oh, he gets a little sweaty, a little clammy.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it looks good.

• 45:22David Sims?

  Okay.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  Breaking out.

• 45:24David Sims?

  We crushing on Griff?

• 45:25Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna pin, I'm gonna pin a thought here that I want to discuss more. And, and this is a thing that it feels like our very young collective generation talks about a lot online. The cool place where the kids are, is why don't people look normal in movies anymore? We've lost normal people.

• 45:40David Sims?

  Sure.

• 45:41Griffin Newman?

  He is such a perfect example of that sort of complaint of like, he's a very handsome, charming man, but his teeth are a little yellow.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Normal?

• 45:49Griffin Newman?

  He's got some weird gaps, he's got the unibrow, you know, his chest hair pattern is not like carved.

• 45:55David Sims?

  You're making him sound like an ogre.

• 45:57Griffin Newman?

  No, but, but this is the thing, compared to movies today.

• 46:00David Sims?

  I totally get what you're saying.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Everyone in this movie, Roseanne Arquette is so beautiful.

• 46:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  But she doesn't have veneers?

• 46:06Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 46:06David Sims?

  Oh my god.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  She hasn't gotten a bleff?

• 46:08David Sims?

  Yeah, but the-

• 46:09Griffin Newman?

  I hate the bleff. Can I say I hate the bleff?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  See, I think I hate the bleff and then I'm like, would I get it? Yeah.

• 46:15Griffin Newman?

  I just-

• 46:15Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna.

• 46:16Griffin Newman?

  It's the opposite of the look I like.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Okay, so I've, I've been watching videos of women's bleffs. They cut the, it's horrifying. They cut the skin off of your eyelid and then pull it up so that you're like, when your eyelid is hooded, it like removes the hood. So it's why, you know like Emma Stone's eyes? Allegedly. You know how they look bigger now?

• 46:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Bleff.

• 46:37David Sims?

  You don't need eyelids.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  You'll start noticing it everywhere.

• 46:40Griffin Newman?

  Eyelids are hot. I like eyelids. They're a thing I'm attracted to.

• 46:44David Sims?

  Sure, did we evolutionarily like, grow eyelids because they protect our eyes and keep them moisturized? We don't need them anymore.

• 46:52Griffin Newman?

  It's the, is the bleff thing gonna be like The Jerk, where in two years, all of these people are blind? And it just turns out they've been like, the dust has been going straight.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  That is my fear.

• 47:00Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  It's so scary, don't get near my eyes.

• 47:03Griffin Newman?

  It looks weird. This is a movie where, where incredibly beautiful charismatic people all look like human beings.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Catherine O'Hara is so beautiful.

• 47:12David Sims?

  This movie is a babe parade. Let's just be honest, okay?

• 47:15Griffin Newman?

  We were talking about watching this recently.

• 47:16David Sims?

  Babe, babe, babe, babe.

• 47:17Griffin Newman?

  Or watching this film often. When Catherine O'Hara died and we were in the middle of a record and we were all really upset and I went home and I was like, I want to watch something, what should I watch? You were like, After Hours.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:27Griffin Newman?

  And I did, knowing that this series was coming up, or likely, I only watched from Catherine O'Hara on.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:34Griffin Newman?

  But she's Hall of Fame in this, and we should acknowledge that among other things, this of course is a Home Alone prequel that explains how Kevin McCallister's parents meet.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:43Griffin Newman?

  They're part of a woke mob together.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Wow. She's always looking for someone.

• 47:48Griffin Newman?

  She is.

• 47:48David Sims?

  John Heard was hot. He's, he's the, John Heard, who plays the angry bartender, I guess in this one, is the star of Chili Scenes of Winter. It's a lot, it's a lot of the kind of like, Amy Robinson, Griffin Dunn verse.

• 48:00Griffin Newman?

  And, and then people that Scorsese loves, like Scorsese loved SCTV. Supposed to direct that weird Netflix thing. Catherine O'Hara feels like a move from him. This is her at her hottest.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:12Griffin Newman?

  She is so, she's so fucking-

• 48:13David Sims?

  But I mean, Fiorentina, I mean, Arquette, like you're saying, Terry Gar, Purtur Bloom.

• 48:18Griffin Newman?

  What if you fumbled the four coolest women of the 1980s?

• 48:21Speaker 02

  And haven't we all been there?

• 48:23David Sims?

  He's just-

• 48:24Griffin Newman?

  Unfortunately, yes.

• 48:24David Sims?

  He's just fucking-

• 48:25Griffin Newman?

  It's a fumble parade.

• 48:26David Sims?

  Bo Bichette up there, just swinging her mess.

• 48:29Griffin Newman?

  Who's Bo Bichette? What does that mean?

• 48:30David Sims?

  He's on the Mets right now, he's having a bad time, I love you Bo Bichette. All right, so, they, they love this script and then they watch Vincent, the short by Tim Burton. We've discussed this a little bit, I think, on our Tim Burton series, which was the, his sort of calling card short, it's very good, you can watch it-

• 48:44Griffin Newman?

  It's stop motion, it's really great. Yeah, it's on a lot of the Nightmare releases, it might be on Disney Plus, you certainly can find it. Has Frankenweenie not happened at this point?

• 48:52David Sims?

  No, it's just Vincent that they are intrigued by him, you know, off of. And they go and meet him, he was still at Disney. They said he was this, you know, he had like, you know, a short-sleeved shirt and then pens in his pocket that are like bleeding into the shirt, you know, they're basically just like, this is, right, a genius, but like, a little dork.

• 49:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:12David Sims?

  And he'd already done little drawings of the characters, he'd read the script, you know, he'd drawn characters with the big bug eyes, like any Tim Burton thing and-

• 49:19Griffin Newman?

  Dunn told me that he was building like extensive models, like he made little foam board, kind of, and this is what the set would be and the angles and everything. It was gonna be a lot more stylized.

• 49:29David Sims?

  Now, so now their package is, Griffin Dunn is the star and Tim Burton is the director. They actually get Terry Gar attached pretty early.

• 49:37Griffin Newman?

  And she's a pretty fucking big deal at this point.

• 49:39David Sims?

  She's an Oscar nominee, but no one is interested. Like, as much as it is kind of like, oh, Burton stepped aside, it's also like, at the very most, they were just gonna get a tiny budget for this thing, because it was this like weird, dark movie that they're pitching around. And of course, Amy Robinson does know Martin Scorsese because she was in Mean Streets. So, she says, we hadn't gotten too far with him, we hear Last Temptation got shut down. And I'm like, look, you shouldn't ask.

• 50:07Griffin Newman?

  This doesn't hurt to ask.

• 50:09David Sims?

  And as we said, Tim Burton's like, I'm not saying it like that. I would, I gratefully withdraw. Like, I will not be, you know, fighting with Martin Scorsese over this. I'm sure I'll figure it out.

• 50:20Griffin Newman?

  Which he does.

• 50:21David Sims?

  And they all, it all worked out.

• 50:23Griffin Newman?

  And I guess Frankenweenie gets made in this period of time when he's attached, developed.

• 50:28David Sims?

  Yeah, cuz that's eighty-four that that is, which is another short film of his that's very good.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:34David Sims?

  Yes, you know.

• 50:35Griffin Newman?

  But I think, I think part of the impetus for him getting that off the ground, you know, it was A, Disney wanted something to do with Burton because they had him under contract. And B, Burton need to prove that he could do live action to help kind of gain trust for after hours. Everyone ends up fine.

• 50:51David Sims?

  Marty is basically like, I am in quasi-director's jail a little bit. I'm reading scripts. None of them make any sense for me. I had almost died from doing too much coke and having such a weak body. I mean, he puts it in a slightly more soft way than that, but it's really not.

• 51:05Griffin Newman?

  His body was on contract.

• 51:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 51:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 51:07David Sims?

  Um, and, you know, he's like, I'm not gonna subject myself to fighting with executives, waking up at the crack of dawn, you know, making a movie, putting myself through this unless it's something I really care about. Like, I'm not gonna just take a gig.

• 51:20Griffin Newman?

  This is ostensibly an independent film as well, right?

• 51:23David Sims?

  Sure. Well, let me see. Yeah, okay. Oh, right. Beverly Hills Cop, for example. He was offered that.

• 51:28Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:29David Sims?

  With Sylvester Stallone, you know, back when it was Sylvester Stallone.

• 51:32Griffin Newman?

  It's crazy to think that he was seen as so kind of, dare I say it, washed at that moment. That they were like, Martin Scorsese will take fucking paychecks, Stallone vehicle gigs.

• 51:43David Sims?

  Cuz that's the thing. It's like Katzenberg and Eisner at Paramount clearly feel bad. Like, they're like, sorry, we can't make her the Christ movie.

• 51:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 51:50David Sims?

  Beverly Hills Cop. And like.

• 51:52Griffin Newman?

  He's still respected, but it's like, obviously you now need to work for us rather than us working with you.

• 51:58David Sims?

  Right. And he's like, what's that? And they're like, it's a fish out of water movie. And he's like, what's that? You know, like, he's just, it's just not his guy. And they're like, you know, he's a cop from somewhere. He comes to New York and he's like, oh, you mean like the Don Segal picture Coogan's bluff? And they're like, no, Beverly Hills, stop it. Like, shush. Uh, Witness is another one, recently covered on Blank Check.

• 52:20Griffin Newman?

  Very fire podcast.

• 52:22David Sims?

  Uh, thank you very much. And Marty was kinda like, I, I'm not going to Pennsylvania. That doesn't make any sense as well. You know what I mean?

• 52:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:30David Sims?

  We've all been.

• 52:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:32David Sims?

  Like, I can imagine. Now Marty, you know, he'll get his ass to Oklahoma maybe to, you know, but back then he was like, I don't know from Amish, right? Like, that's not my milieu.

• 52:40Griffin Newman?

  Don't put me in a field.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Oh, they should make an after hours with an Amish guy.

• 52:45David Sims?

  They should, like a Rumspringa after hours, yes.

• 52:48Griffin Newman?

  Or he just like takes three steps away from his family home and he has the same level of panic.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Where am I?

• 52:54David Sims?

  Then he gets after hours. Guess what Martin Scorsese's reaction is? I know just how this guy feels. He's reading it and he's being like, relate the hell out of this one. And, uh, he says, what it really is, it's a reaction against my year and a half into Hollywood, trying to get Last Temptation of Christ made. I always make personal films. So like that, I'm in this, even if I didn't write it or whatever. And, yeah, he, he just, he loves the sort of trapped in the underworld kind of idea. You know, the way he puts it is like, you're playing a game, you can't pass go, you have to go to jail, you can't collect two hundred dollars. You're just like trapped in a board game that you can't leave. He, so he's into it. Here are some of his influences on the movie. Isle of the Dead, a Val Luton movie that takes place like over one night on a Greek island.

• 53:39Griffin Newman?

  Okay, I've never seen that one.

• 53:40David Sims?

  Neither have I. North by Northwest, uh, this sort of like, the world is against him. He's been framed. He's like on the right, you know what I mean?

• 53:47Griffin Newman?

  And that movie's made by Alfred Hitchcock.

• 53:49David Sims?

  That's right.

• 53:49Griffin Newman?

  That's who directed.

• 53:50David Sims?

  Horny King.

• 53:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 53:51David Sims?

  Uh, and then some Fritz Lang movies like M Manhunt, Woman in the Window, you know, nighttime noir-y nightmare movies, stuff like that.

• 54:01Griffin Newman?

  Do we think that if he was alive today, Alfred Hitchcock would become a mukbang streamer?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 54:07David Sims?

  What is that one again?

• 54:08Speaker 02

  I wish.

• 54:09Griffin Newman?

  That people like pay you to eat too much food, right? Isn't that what it is?

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:14David Sims?

  Yeah. I see an eating broadcast.

• 54:16Griffin Newman?

  Right. And the watchers are called feeders?

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know.

• 54:19Griffin Newman?

  I think cuz they're pledging money.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Granular.

• 54:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  About it.

• 54:23David Sims?

  Good evening. Please remember to rate, review, hit that notification bell. Delicious. I mean, wasn't his whole thing that he would have like two entrees and he'd be like, do you want food?

• 54:33Griffin Newman?

  The Great Story of All.

• 54:34David Sims?

  Right.

• 54:35Griffin Newman?

  That Mel Brooks wants to get dinner with him.

• 54:37David Sims?

  Do it again.

• 54:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And he came with the check and he goes, one more time.

• 54:41David Sims?

  He's just like, run that meal back.

• 54:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 54:44David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, you know, he's got a lot of other fucking influences.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  Rear window, I would assume.

• 54:49David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, a lot of Hitchcock, a lot of Fritz Lang.

• 54:51Griffin Newman?

  The character feels very, yeah.

• 54:53David Sims?

  Yes. So it gets picked up by Geffen.

• 54:55Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 54:56David Sims?

  You know, so it's, it is an indie, but obviously Geffen is a, you know, a robust company.

• 55:00Griffin Newman?

  It's a little closer to nowadays where a lot of studio slates are actually largely financed and partially owned by companies like Legendary and New Regency and.

• 55:10David Sims?

  Warner Brothers distributes it. Geffen funds it for four point five million dollars. So like a pretty small budget. Um, yeah.

• 55:19Griffin Newman?

  It qualified for Indie Spirit Awards.

• 55:22David Sims?

  And, you know, it comes with Griffin Dunn attached and Marty is fine with that.

• 55:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 55:26David Sims?

  He's never like, Bobby De Niro will play the part. You know what I mean? Like, I guess he could have been a fucker about it.

• 55:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he could have, but it's, I mean, it is his product. Yeah.

• 55:35David Sims?

  Famously, I'll quote Griffin Dunn in, in, I'll just quote him here.

• 55:39Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 55:40David Sims?

  Marty knew I was a single man in New York who liked to party.

• 55:44Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:45David Sims?

  He knew I liked the ladies. And he said, very important for Paul Hackett to have a look of desire in his eyes throughout the whole movie. And that's what gets him into this play, in mess in the first place. So I need you to not have sex for the eight weeks of the shoot.

• 55:59Griffin Newman?

  He basically put like boxing rules on him.

• 56:01David Sims?

  No sex. You have to be like sweating horn dog bullets in my movie. You know what I mean? You can't be going out having fun after.

• 56:09Griffin Newman?

  Griffin Dunn bit of a legendary stick man. It's someone who actually needed parameters around him.

• 56:15David Sims?

  I mean, look.

• 56:16Griffin Newman?

  I think would trip into sex.

• 56:18David Sims?

  Griffin Dunn is hot and cool.

• 56:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:20David Sims?

  It is crazy to think that Marty's just like, I know what you're like. No fucking. And Griffin Dunn's like, for how long?

• 56:25Griffin Newman?

  But I, I really think his reputation preceded him as like.

• 56:28David Sims?

  Clearly because.

• 56:30Griffin Newman?

  Ladies throw themselves at him.

• 56:31David Sims?

  Because one day, he starts to do a scene with Linda Fiorentino. And as Griffin says, I was just too goddamn relaxed. And Marty went, cut. Let me talk to you. You got laid, didn't you?

• 56:42Griffin Newman?

  You piece of shit.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Was it the scene where he's giving her a massage?

• 56:46David Sims?

  Yes.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:47David Sims?

  That was the scene. He's like, I just come off a little too chill. And Marty was like, did you get laid, you fucker? You fucked it all up.

• 56:54Griffin Newman?

  It's funny cuz that's one of my favorite scenes of his in the movie, but it works because the movie has to make him fail harder.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:02Griffin Newman?

  To overcorrect how smooth he thinks he's being.

• 57:07David Sims?

  Yes, I agree.

• 57:08Griffin Newman?

  The moment where he thinks that she's leaning in to kiss him and actually just falls asleep on his shoulder.

• 57:12David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 57:13Griffin Newman?

  Is, is maybe my single like favorite performance moment in the whole movie.

• 57:17David Sims?

  Right. Uh, his Unabrah. He says his mother is half Mexican and he got the look from his mother. Fair enough. He says he's done three movies where, this is funny, where the interest has quadrupled since it was made. American Werewolf of London, this, and Practical Magic, which he directed. He's not in.

• 57:39Griffin Newman?

  Was rudely not asked back for the sequel. One of your favorite movies ever made.

• 57:43David Sims?

  Insane movie.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  That's one of your favorites.

• 57:45David Sims?

  It's a demented movie.

• 57:46Griffin Newman?

  Sims has always been pushing to do a Griffin Dunn director series.

• 57:49David Sims?

  I love two of his movies very dearly.

• 57:52Griffin Newman?

  It's only four? Is that right?

• 57:53David Sims?

  I think that's right.

• 57:54Griffin Newman?

  You love the two studio movies.

• 57:56David Sims?

  I love, uh, Addicted to Love, which is an insane movie. And I love Practical Magic. The other ones.

• 58:02Griffin Newman?

  Lisa Picard is famous.

• 58:04David Sims?

  Which I've never seen.

• 58:04Griffin Newman?

  And The Accidental Husband. Is there another one or is it just those four?

• 58:08David Sims?

  Uh, there's Fierce People.

• 58:09Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes. Yep.

• 58:11David Sims?

  And The Accidental Husband. And then he, did he make the documentary about, uh, you know, Joan Didion, you know, is, uh.

• 58:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 58:18David Sims?

  Ant.

• 58:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Which is very good.

• 58:21David Sims?

  Which I, yeah, which was on Netflix or whatever, but that's it. Yeah. Yeah. But have you ever seen Addicted to Love?

• 58:25Speaker 02

  I'm not.

• 58:26David Sims?

  Would like it.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Really?

• 58:28David Sims?

  Yes. It's like Meg Ryan and Matthew Roderick, both in kind of like mid nineties, we're not sure how to still be famous and relevant era. You know what I mean? Like, they're both still a little bit searching for a new thing.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  This is nineties?

• 58:39David Sims?

  It's like ninety-seven.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Okay, so like ten years after When Harry Met Sally.

• 58:43David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 58:43Griffin Newman?

  Roderick has the most fascinating nineties. I'll never get over how weird his nineties searching is where he's like, maybe I'm the guy who studies Godzilla. But maybe I'm Inspector Gadget.

• 58:52David Sims?

  Yeah, like, but that's the thing where he's like, I don't wanna always be a nerd. So in Addicted to Love, he's like, what if I'm like kind of a trashy douchebag? And it's like, no, but I'm interested in what a weird fitness is for you.

• 59:05Griffin Newman?

  And then election is how he like closes out the decade where he's like, you, you fucking cracked it.

• 59:09David Sims?

  Right. Um, but it's about, uh, basically he breaks into a building and starts surveilling. Uh, it doesn't, look, we can't get into it right now. It's just, you should check it out.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:20David Sims?

  Uh, and have you seen Practical Magic?

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't love it.

• 59:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Are you, how are you feeling about the sequel?

• 59:26David Sims?

  Looks like just the worst dog shit. It's so crazy.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:30David Sims?

  It's just.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  It has that look.

• 59:32David Sims?

  It just looks like a sweater commercial. Like, you know, you know, and what Suzanne Beer?

• 59:36Griffin Newman?

  I hate sweater commercials. They just, you can't turn on the TV without seeing five sweater commercials.

• 59:40David Sims?

  But I mean, like, you've seen the, you've seen the trailer, right?

• 59:42Griffin Newman?

  No, no, I actually haven't seen the trailer.

• 59:44David Sims?

  It's just, it's like that weird flat, you know, like, it's just so bad.

• 59:48Griffin Newman?

  Can I throw in a new theory?

• 59:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 59:50Griffin Newman?

  Because that was, you know, everyone's reaction to the Devil Wears Prada trailer. And then I thought the final film looked fairly good.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  It's pretty good.

• 59:58Griffin Newman?

  Uh, you know, within our modern landscape, I think these trailers are just like not fucking color timed. I think that so much of the look of these movies is done in post now.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:08Griffin Newman?

  And they don't even take the time to land on the look when they have, when they're constructing the trailer, it probably happens so late that all those things get dialed in.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Griffin Newman?

  Cuz you just see these trailers where you're like, why does this look like I shot it?

• 1:00:22David Sims?

  Now, I know what color timing is, but, you know, but just in case someone out there doesn't know.

• 1:00:28Griffin Newman?

  It, it used to be a photochemical process. Now it's a digital process. It's also sort of like digital intermediate is, uh, not the same thing, but it's sort of part and parcel with the same stage of the process, which is like manipulating the colors of the movie. Either because with lighting conditions or whatever, you didn't get the exact look you want, or you wanna push something into an extreme. Like a movie like this is probably one where there was a lot of color timing work because it is really tough to shoot exterior nights, especially in street scenes where there's not a lot of ambient lighting, you know?

• 1:01:04David Sims?

  Feel free to skip, but this is a fun story. Skip.

• 1:01:08David Sims?

  Terry Gar has always been aboard. Marty knows her.

• 1:01:11Griffin Newman?

  For that part, or was she almost gonna do?

• 1:01:13David Sims?

  For that part.

• 1:01:14Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:01:14David Sims?

  Marty knows her, and so she's kind of grandfathered in. She was always gonna play that part. Rosanna Arquette didn't audition. I guess she'd been in Baby It's You and Marty knew her a little bit.

• 1:01:26Griffin Newman?

  Is Susan after this?

• 1:01:28David Sims?

  This Desperately Seeking?

• 1:01:29Griffin Newman?

  I just call her Susan.

• 1:01:31David Sims?

  That's the same year. Wow, she had a hot 85. That's an incredible movie. Have you seen that movie? You would love.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  I'm really flopping on this.

• 1:01:39David Sims?

  No, you're not flopping at all. I'm just saying you would really like that movie.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41David Sims?

  You would really like that movie.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  She should be.

• 1:01:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  You watch this and you're like, why isn't she the biggest star on earth?

• 1:01:47Griffin Newman?

  She had a moment where she was on the cusp, where she was in the mix.

• 1:01:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you never, I don't hear people reference Rosanna Arquette in the same way that they are quick to reference other actresses.

• 1:01:58David Sims?

  The children aren't in schooling. They're not in the schools.

• 1:02:01Griffin Newman?

  Save it. We got lunch with Timothy Hitmaker Simons and brought up a Rosanna Arquette story and you went, why were you guys hanging out with Rosanna Arquette? And I was like, cause she was in Draft Day and you said, I have no memory of her being in that movie.

• 1:02:12David Sims?

  And you said she felt like she was mostly cut out of it or whatever, right?

• 1:02:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but even still, when she shows up and stuff, weirdly, despite it being so big, it feels like everything post Pulp Fiction.

• 1:02:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:23Griffin Newman?

  Even if you've seen it, you're like, Rosanna Arquette was in that?

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27David Sims?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, I love her and I love her in this, obviously. But yeah, she kind of, she says like, everyone involved in After Hours used to hang out at this New York bar and restaurant called Cafe Central. Bruce Willis was the bartender. De Niro and Walken were always in there. Griffin and Amy were always in there. Marty was always in, you know, like that. So she's just kind of like, Marty's just tapping the downtown scene.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  Wait, Bruce Willis was at that point like employed as a bartender?

• 1:02:53David Sims?

  No, I think it's more just he loves to tend the bar.

• 1:02:56Speaker 02

  Okay, I see, I see.

• 1:02:57Griffin Newman?

  I must just call this out quickly. I just was wanting to confirm in my head that Rosanna Arquette did get a fair amount of nominations for this movie. She got a Best Actress as Supporting Role nomination from the BAFTAs.

• 1:03:11David Sims?

  For After Hours?

• 1:03:13Griffin Newman?

  For After Hours.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Deserved.

• 1:03:14Griffin Newman?

  The Independent Spirit Awards nominated her for Lead.

• 1:03:17David Sims?

  And this won the Indie Spirit for Best Picture.

• 1:03:19Griffin Newman?

  Yep. The Golden Globes nominated her instead for Desperately Seeking Susan that same year. So I think she was a little competing against herself.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:27Griffin Newman?

  Because Desperately Seeking Susan comes out later in the UK, she gets a nomination for that the next year. So she is in this zone where she's like on the bubble for Oscars and getting nominated for all these movies. But then I just scrolled down and noticed that of course, in the year 2000, she was nominated for Choice Hissy Fit.

• 1:03:45David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:03:46Griffin Newman?

  From the Teen Choice Awards for the whole nine yards.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Did she win?

• 1:03:50Griffin Newman?

  She did not. She was nominated.

• 1:03:52David Sims?

  You want me to find out?

• 1:03:53Griffin Newman?

  Please, because the other nomination I want to call out is the Stinkers Bad Movie Awards nominated her for Most Annoying Fake Accent for the whole nine yards. Is that a category that gets five solid nominees? I don't, New York or some shit? I have no memory. I mean, to the point, I have no memory of her being in that movie.

• 1:04:12David Sims?

  Which year was that? The, sorry, the bad accent year?

• 1:04:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  She has a Toto song, though.

• 1:04:17Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, what year is the song? That's.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  That's 80s for sure.

• 1:04:21David Sims?

  So I will tell you that she lost to Adam Sandler for Little Nicky for most annoying fake accent.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  I want to say it's 84. I think that Toto album came out in 84, but I might be wrong.

• 1:04:30David Sims?

  I'm getting a lot of, that's Isolation is the Toto album. Rosanna, Rosanna.

• 1:04:37Griffin Newman?

  It is a song about her.

• 1:04:38David Sims?

  It is about her, but no, that's from Toto Four, which was 82.

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 1:04:43David Sims?

  That's of course the, the album that has Africa.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:04:47David Sims?

  Which is of her.

• 1:04:47Griffin Newman?

  No, that's a Weezer song, David.

• 1:04:49David Sims?

  Okay. I can also tell you.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're young here.

• 1:04:52David Sims?

  That, we're so young. Weezer, of course. The band of Gen Z. Weezer.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  No, kind of, there's a, there's a portion of Gen Z who is very Weezer.

• 1:05:01Griffin Newman?

  They've reclaimed it.

• 1:05:02David Sims?

  What, what?

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  Me.

• 1:05:04David Sims?

  Ritual sacrifice that Rivers Cuomo do to get another generation's worth?

• 1:05:08Griffin Newman?

  It's them doing like the fucking Africa cover and shit.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  I don't like their Africa cover. It really irritates me. Like, that's the most beautiful song ever.

• 1:05:14David Sims?

  Do an irritating cover of something? Sorry. And I truly loved Weezer when I was a teen. I've been.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, but I stop at green album.

• 1:05:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:05:22Griffin Newman?

  Gen X, or what's it called? The Maladroit?

• 1:05:26David Sims?

  Believe with Maladroit. Yeah.

• 1:05:27Griffin Newman?

  Make Believe annoys me. Maladroit has good stuff.

• 1:05:29David Sims?

  That's the one that has.

• 1:05:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Feels like Summer is a good song.

• 1:05:33Griffin Newman?

  Is it?

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  If you hear it in a good mood, it's really, it's like, um, the new Dua Lipa album. I heard it in New York and it pissed me off because I was like, no one feels like this. And then I heard it at the beach and I was like, oh, okay, like.

• 1:05:44David Sims?

  Now, how did you hear it at the beach?

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  I pressed play.

• 1:05:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm guessing.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  I sat my ass down and listened.

• 1:05:49Griffin Newman?

  Step one, go to beach. Step two, sit your ass down.

• 1:05:52David Sims?

  Something really sad.

• 1:05:54Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 1:05:54David Sims?

  I haven't been to the beach yet this year.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:05:57David Sims?

  A nation cries. How dare? Need to get to the beach. Bring me next week.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  Rockaway bound, eh?

• 1:06:03David Sims?

  Oh, I got a car.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:06:05David Sims?

  I drive to the car.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:06:07David Sims?

  I just said I drive to the car.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  David's really into boogie boarding.

• 1:06:10David Sims?

  No, no, I am not.

• 1:06:12Griffin Newman?

  He does the banana boat?

• 1:06:15David Sims?

  I have an inflatable banana boat and I just bring it to fucking Rockaway Beach.

• 1:06:21Griffin Newman?

  You blow it up with your lungs.

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  After Hours Two.

• 1:06:23David Sims?

  I can tell you that the Teen Choice Award for Choice Hissy Fit was given to Lisa Kudrow for Hanging Up that year, which is demented.

• 1:06:32Griffin Newman?

  A movie we covered, yeah.

• 1:06:34David Sims?

  But how many teens saw Hanging Up?

• 1:06:36Griffin Newman?

  No, it's weird, but that is also the Analyze This year. That's what they should have given it to her for. Was it a tied award?

• 1:06:44David Sims?

  No, and I can tell you the other nominees.

• 1:06:46Griffin Newman?

  Was Analyze This 99? What the fuck am I talking about?

• 1:06:48David Sims?

  Analyze This 99.

• 1:06:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:50David Sims?

  I can tell you the nominees for Choice Hissy Fit were Lisa Kudrow, Rosanna Arquette, Joan Cusack for Toy Story Two, one of Jessie's hissy fits. Where I guess she's like, Woody, I don't want to be condemned to life abandoned or whatever. Yeah, right. John Cusack for High Fidelity. He has great hissy fits in that.

• 1:07:08Griffin Newman?

  And I like nominating a man in this category.

• 1:07:11David Sims?

  Cameron Diaz for Any Given Sunday. I mean, I've seen that movie plenty of times.

• 1:07:14Griffin Newman?

  Stop playing football.

• 1:07:15David Sims?

  Diaz, too violent. Angelina Jolie in Girl Interrupted. She's mentally ill. This is a very weird category.

• 1:07:22Griffin Newman?

  That feels reductive.

• 1:07:23David Sims?

  Ben Stiller in Mystery Men. Now he makes sense.

• 1:07:25Griffin Newman?

  He's Mr. Furious.

• 1:07:26David Sims?

  He's Mr. Furious.

• 1:07:27Griffin Newman?

  Oh, he doesn't throw hissy fits.

• 1:07:28David Sims?

  Jodie Lynn O'Keefe in Whatever It Takes, which is like a teen comedy with a James Franco looks so cursed, you must look upon it.

• 1:07:36Griffin Newman?

  James Franco kind of rocking the Travolta Pomeranian hairdo.

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  I've had Franco's on the mind a lot recently and that's.

• 1:07:45David Sims?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I watch.

• 1:07:47David Sims?

  Doctors are available and 24 hours a day in New York City.

• 1:07:50Griffin Newman?

  If you take antibiotics, you get that out of your system.

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  I read a Field Street Could Talk and then I watched the movie.

• 1:07:56Griffin Newman?

  Which Dave is in, of course, playing a rabbi.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  There is no odder casting decision.

• 1:08:01Griffin Newman?

  He's a Hasidic Jew landlord.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Hasidic Jewish landlord who rents an apartment to the main couple.

• 1:08:08David Sims?

  I forgot about it. He's got like a sweater. He's like walking around with them.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  You read the book and you have such a clear image of him and then he shows up in the movie and he's like, hey, guys, it's me. You're like, what the hell?

• 1:08:17David Sims?

  I would assume that was almost a favor to a small budget movie, right? Like Franco's like, I'll be in your movie, right?

• 1:08:23Griffin Newman?

  But it's Dave, right?

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  But it's Dave. That's the thing.

• 1:08:26Griffin Newman?

  It's Dave when he doesn't necessarily on paper.

• 1:08:30David Sims?

  He's not that famous.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  He has a yarmulke on to show that he is Jewish.

• 1:08:33Griffin Newman?

  And he's like the one total like white ally in the movie. He's the one good white person.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  Don't worry, guys. I just love love.

• 1:08:40Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's the one, right, he's also a hippie. He's a hippie. So you know, it's the one moment in that movie that clanks off the backboard for me.

• 1:08:47Speaker 02

  I don't think it was written as a hippie. I think he just was playing Dave Franco with the yarmulke on.

• 1:08:53David Sims?

  It's just crazy that Choice Hissy Fit made it all the way to 2018 before they finally did away with it.

• 1:09:00Griffin Newman?

  Who was the last winner?

• 1:09:01David Sims?

  Madeline Patch for Riverdale. So which one?

• 1:09:04Griffin Newman?

  Fucking folded TV and.

• 1:09:06David Sims?

  She was Hot Cheryl on Hot Archie.

• 1:09:08Griffin Newman?

  Fuck out of here.

• 1:09:09David Sims?

  I don't even, which one's Cheryl? I don't even know.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  I don't know. Do you think Andout has a Teen Choice Award for when she put Marley down?

• 1:09:15Griffin Newman?

  I'm looking.

• 1:09:16David Sims?

  Did she put Marley down in Marley and me?

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  She put Marley down.

• 1:09:18David Sims?

  She kills that dog?

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was, a lot of people don't realize, she shot Marley in the head.

• 1:09:24Griffin Newman?

  She breaks his neck.

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  A lot of people of our collective generation don't realize that their first introduction to Andout was her killing Marley. I should have brought that up to her. I completely forgot.

• 1:09:34David Sims?

  What would, I'm so sorry, sweetie. She would have like taken you by the hands. She, I can tell you that she has no Teen Choice Award.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  Kids Choice Awards? Do you have the kids looking?

• 1:09:43David Sims?

  Huge oversight by them.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  She has a Kids Choice Award for Best Villain as Aunt Lydia.

• 1:09:49Griffin Newman?

  Almost more surprising is that she only has one AARP movies for grown up nomination.

• 1:09:54David Sims?

  That is rude.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  For what?

• 1:09:55Griffin Newman?

  For compliance.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:09:57Griffin Newman?

  Which she should have gotten an Oscar nomination for.

• 1:09:59David Sims?

  She's very good in that movie. I didn't love that movie, but she was like undeniably, right?

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  She's so good.

• 1:10:06David Sims?

  That was one of those, like, she, that was like a DIY Oscar campaign too, right? Cause that movie costs like four bucks.

• 1:10:11Griffin Newman?

  The campaign was her being like, I'm paying out of pocket because this movie has no budget.

• 1:10:15David Sims?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:10:16Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 1:10:18David Sims?

  Yeah, we're doing great. Okay, After Hours. Yes, you're right. You're so right. Okay. Catherine O'Hara, I just want to say, as you said, Griff, Marty was a huge SCTV fan.

• 1:10:26Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 1:10:27David Sims?

  Oh, Marty. She says she remembers being pumped up by Marty where he would go, who's this little fucker? He thinks he can tell you what to do? You're the one helping him. Like, he would like, kind of agitate her before they called action of like, you hate this guy, by the way. He sucks. Like, he's really annoying. Uh, John Heard, he'd been in Chili Scenes of Winter. And Cheech and Chong, of course, are in the film.

• 1:10:48Griffin Newman?

  Now, some people count this as a canonical Cheech and Chong entry.

• 1:10:53David Sims?

  Because they basically are being themselves.

• 1:10:55Griffin Newman?

  That's the question.

• 1:10:56David Sims?

  Being those characters.

• 1:10:56Griffin Newman?

  Does anything negate them being Cheech and Chong?

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  They shout out their character names.

• 1:11:01David Sims?

  Right. They are called Neil and Pepe.

• 1:11:04Griffin Newman?

  But there's also like, you know, Corsican Brothers is a movie where, kind of like the Muppet movies, they're like, playing their dynamic, but they're playing other characters.

• 1:11:12David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:11:12Speaker 03

  Well, funny enough, you should mention the Corsican Brothers because when they were in Cannes, that's how they met Marty.

• 1:11:22David Sims?

  Marty. Right. And that's, uh, yeah, right. And I also want to say, Dunn, you know, they have the script. And Marty was like, I think these guys should be like Cheech and Chong. And Griffin was like, it could just actually be Cheech and Chong. Like, why not? Why not? You're like, but yes, he met him at Cannes. Uh, and then he called them and said, hey, this is Marty Scorsese. You remember me? And they said, yeah, the little Italian guy.

• 1:11:50Speaker 03

  I think it was Chong specifically. I just love the idea of him saying that to Marty.

• 1:11:54David Sims?

  Now, this, this might stun you guys to learn, but, um, everyone on set, including Martin Scorsese and Griffin Dunn, were very intimidated by Linda Fiorentino, possibly because she's the hottest and coolest woman alive.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:05Griffin Newman?

  We, we were texting with our, our buddies, our news and deals group thread the other day. And Fantasy just did a, a quick Fiorentino Hall of Fame. And she is one of those people where if you just go-

• 1:12:17David Sims?

  When you lay it out there.

• 1:12:18Griffin Newman?

  The top five or top six.

• 1:12:19David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:21Griffin Newman?

  The impact she had, especially on young, developing male minds, was pretty seismic.

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  She's such a, she's the sculptor.

• 1:12:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:12:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:29David Sims?

  She's the best. Uh-

• 1:12:31Griffin Newman?

  But a, but a notoriously intense person.

• 1:12:33David Sims?

  Sure. Um, but in this movie, incredible, but did scare the shit out of every, everyone. Will Patton, in a role where you're like, this is Will Patton who later plays like, you know, farmers with big mustaches or whatever. You're like, that's more-

• 1:12:47Griffin Newman?

  Or like evil farmers.

• 1:12:47David Sims?

  Right. Or evil farmer with a even bigger mustache.

• 1:12:50Speaker 03

  I sold out your farm.

• 1:12:52David Sims?

  He had been in Sam Shepard's play Fool for Love. Marty had loved it.

• 1:12:56Griffin Newman?

  The Randy Quaid part, I'm assuming?

• 1:12:58David Sims?

  Right. And, but apparently he was basically like, I totally knew the After Hours world. Like, I got that, you know, I knew how to play like a scary, weird artist guy.

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  Horst.

• 1:13:07Griffin Newman?

  Horst.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  He's so cool.

• 1:13:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09David Sims?

  He is cool and hot.

• 1:13:11Griffin Newman?

  He's hot.

• 1:13:12Speaker 03

  His energy is intense.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  It's crazy. Yeah.

• 1:13:17David Sims?

  Film was shot in 40 nights. For Marty, that's quick.

• 1:13:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:21David Sims?

  I would say when you watch this movie, you're like, oh, did they make it in 20 days? No, 40. But for him, that's quick. He turns to Michael Ballhaus, uh, probably his most consistent cinematographer in his career. This is their first collaboration. He knew him from Fast and the Furious movies, which were very low budget, tight schedule movies. So he kind of was like, I feel like you'll be good at quick setups and all that.

• 1:13:43Griffin Newman?

  Versus King of Comedy, where, as we discussed, him and his DP were kind of encouraging the worst traits in each other.

• 1:13:49David Sims?

  He thought Fred Schuler was slow and, right, it only made him slower and all that. Ballhaus had also shot Baby It's You, so he's got a little bit of that.

• 1:13:55Griffin Newman?

  Got it.

• 1:13:56David Sims?

  Marty considers making this movie a rejuvenation that can, like, rekindle his love of movie making. Like, he just loved making this movie. It was like so fun and free.

• 1:14:06Griffin Newman?

  Like Last Waltz is that after New York, New York, and this is that after King of Comedy, where he needed to be saved a little.

• 1:14:13David Sims?

  And like, it's like, they start work at five o'clock at night, they end at five in the morning. The streets of Soho are basically empty. It's like really easy for them to shoot versus King of Comedy, where like every New York scene was really hard. Uh, and they just had the best time.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  You can feel it. There's a lightness about it that is really nice. Also, there's so much Goodfellas DNA in the way the camera moves, and it's really fun to watch.

• 1:14:34David Sims?

  It's so exciting.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:36David Sims?

  And, and it's just a movie, I've shown this movie to so many friends over the years because casual cinema friends, like, are not really aware of it, especially back in the day, I guess. And you could just always be like, there's a little Marty gem you don't know about, and it's this. And it's, yeah, it's the best. The ending, of course, is added later.

• 1:14:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes, there's-

• 1:14:55David Sims?

  The film tested, the ending didn't work, essentially.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  What was the original ending? Do we know?

• 1:14:58Griffin Newman?

  I don't know if it's on the Criterion Disc. I know it was on the original DVD back in the day, where you could see the storyboards for the original ending, which are still the Werner Bloom character. But instead of her engulfing him in paper mache, he was going to crawl inside of her womb.

• 1:15:14David Sims?

  So that was an idea.

• 1:15:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:15:16David Sims?

  But the actual ending that audiences are shown, he's just still in the sculpture and it ends.

• 1:15:21Griffin Newman?

  Got it.

• 1:15:21David Sims?

  And audiences were like, what? You know, like, he's just trapped?

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  The first time I watched this, I thought that her missing husband was in the paper mache.

• 1:15:31Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  Not missing. You know what I mean?

• 1:15:32Griffin Newman?

  But I, that might be sort of the implication, that yes, he's somewhere. Yes.

• 1:15:37David Sims?

  Michael Powell is on set and he pitches, what if he ends up in a hot air balloon and just flies over the city? And they're like, that's a great idea. But then they're like, eh, it's a little boring, though. Like, the energy of it doesn't quite match. Uh, and then he shows it to De Palma and, uh, Spielberg, his buds. And then someone, I think it's Minion, that the screenwriter actually has the idea that you're talking about, that, uh, yeah, that he was going to be birthed by Werner Bloom onto the West Side Highway.

• 1:16:06Griffin Newman?

  Would be reborn.

• 1:16:07David Sims?

  And David Geffen is like, who, the money man, is like, that's disgusting. I will not fund that. No, thank you.

• 1:16:13Griffin Newman?

  Storyboards of him crawling into her womb.

• 1:16:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  And then he starts doing baby Def Jam comedy.

• 1:16:18David Sims?

  And that, and that, right, yes.

• 1:16:20Griffin Newman?

  We were talking about this off mic. There's an AI account that does baby Def Jam comedy, and I regret to inform you, that's pretty well written.

• 1:16:26David Sims?

  Uh, but Michael Powell, once again, then finally is like, what if he just goes back to work?

• 1:16:30Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:31David Sims?

  And they're like, oh, yeah, right. That makes the most sense. That's brilliant.

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  I love this.

• 1:16:34Griffin Newman?

  You can't believe it wasn't the ending they had from the get-go.

• 1:16:37David Sims?

  Because you're like, oh, of course, this, this is a perfectly written screenplay. That's the idea from the beginning, right?

• 1:16:42Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:16:42David Sims?

  That he's right back there and the music's playing again, the Beethoven or whatever, you know?

• 1:16:45Griffin Newman?

  And the camera's going crazy.

• 1:16:46David Sims?

  The camera's going crazy. And you're like, yeah, baby, that's life in New York City. Let's go Mets!

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  Is this a divisive ending?

• 1:16:54Griffin Newman?

  No, no, no. It was, it was-

• 1:16:56David Sims?

  It tested very well. Like, it fixed the movie.

• 1:16:58Griffin Newman?

  Was when they, he didn't make it back to the office. Um-

• 1:17:02David Sims?

  But then the movie comes out, and we'll talk about the movie, but like, and like, they're kind of all like, we made a fucking hit here. And then it just like, does fine. And they're all a little numpl. They're all like, what? This rocks!

• 1:17:13Griffin Newman?

  Makes like 10 million.

• 1:17:14David Sims?

  Yeah, it did okay.

• 1:17:15Griffin Newman?

  Wins Best Director at Cannes.

• 1:17:17David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:17:18Griffin Newman?

  And it wins Best Film at the Indianapolis Spirits Awards.

• 1:17:21David Sims?

  But it's like, not a breakout. But, you know, whatever. Like, so it goes. Fuck you, I guess.

• 1:17:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26David Sims?

  That's what Marty says. And then he goes and makes color money, where it's like, that actually is a huge hit.

• 1:17:32Griffin Newman?

  Well, sure. It's in the way that you move.

• 1:17:34David Sims?

  Yeah, in the way that you move.

• 1:17:48David Sims?

  So, um, it's about Paul Hackett.

• 1:17:52Griffin Newman?

  He's an annoying horny little yuppie twerp. Uh, he's, he's-

• 1:17:57David Sims?

  He sit at computer.

• 1:17:58Griffin Newman?

  With Bronson Pinchot.

• 1:17:59David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:00Griffin Newman?

  They enter data.

• 1:18:01David Sims?

  Yeah. He describes himself as a word processor.

• 1:18:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:18:05David Sims?

  That was like a job back then.

• 1:18:06Griffin Newman?

  That was a job. That was an actual job. That's not like a, a slang term.

• 1:18:12Griffin Newman?

  That's what you'd respond to the listing, need word processor.

• 1:18:15David Sims?

  It's like the computer barely could do anything. You had to put the words in it.

• 1:18:18Griffin Newman?

  You had to massage it. You had to go, please, pretty please.

• 1:18:21David Sims?

  Consider myself a bit of a word processor. Um, yeah, he works at a, I don't know, a firm, a computer firm? I mean-

• 1:18:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he works in money or some shit.

• 1:18:30David Sims?

  Who cares? And he goes to a cafe.

• 1:18:34Griffin Newman?

  To read.

• 1:18:35David Sims?

  To read.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  The Tropic of-

• 1:18:37David Sims?

  Is he reading Tropic Cancer? Yes. Because that's why Rosanna talks to him, right?

• 1:18:43Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:18:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:18:44Griffin Newman?

  Because he appears to be a man of letters.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  He's processing those words.

• 1:18:47David Sims?

  He, you know what? Ally, you are correct.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  Another way that foam would have ruined the movie is if he was scrolling, she would have no idea what he was doing.

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  If he was listening to a fucking audiobook. If this, if this came out today, he'd be listening to a fucking audiobook.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  I'm trying to find which restaurant it is, but I don't actually know. Some of the other locations are quite iconic.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  I love The Cashier. My favorite moment in the movie, my second favorite moment in the movie is when he asks the guy for the pen, and he like does a spin before he gives it to him. I think it's so fucking funny.

• 1:19:15Griffin Newman?

  Practicing the dance moves all night. Yeah.

• 1:19:18David Sims?

  It is so cliched to say this movie captures that weird New York energy, but that is the vibe sometimes. Everyone's got like some weird bit going on with them that you only like brush against.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  And it's so inconsequential, but it like, it feels crazy in the moment.

• 1:19:31David Sims?

  And like, you know, there's these stores called bodegas and they have these like sandwiches no one else has bacon, egg and cheese.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:19:39Griffin Newman?

  Can I, can I throw-

• 1:19:40David Sims?

  I gotta make fun of us.

• 1:19:41Griffin Newman?

  The, the other thing.

• 1:19:42David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:19:43Griffin Newman?

  I think this is like a fascinating AIDS crisis movie.

• 1:19:45David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:19:46Griffin Newman?

  I, I think it's like really deeply coded into the text of this film. It is a movie that is about a yuppie guy confidently entering a lot of what are traditionally queer spaces. And everything feels hostile to him, but it's also a movie about what are the life and death stakes of trying to hook up with one person you find attractive? You know, and as he continues to like sort of bounce around different women, everything has the stake of like, if you say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing, are you possibly putting a foot in the grave? And down to him entering the punk scene, you know, uh, dancing waiters. I mean, obviously the art scene, like all these different places that he's going into and these people he's interacting with.

• 1:20:29Griffin Newman?

  And then you obviously build to a scene where he tries to find solace in a stranger who thinks that he's trying to pick him up.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Griffin Newman?

  That he's, that he's a gigolo.

• 1:20:38Speaker 02

  And even the gay neighbors who are trying to protect the guy's apartment.

• 1:20:42Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's one of the things that I think has made this movie age very well is it, I think a lot of filmmakers wouldn't have touched that stuff.

• 1:20:49David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:20:49Griffin Newman?

  You know, they would have stayed away from the queerness of New York and Soho at this point in time, especially as it was such a hot button political issue because of the AIDS crisis. And, you know, tried to make the most commercial, conventionally funny version of the movie.

• 1:21:04David Sims?

  Crazy Night movie.

• 1:21:04Griffin Newman?

  Right. They also probably wouldn't have Roseanne Arquette die spoilers, like they'd stay away from some of the darkness. We will be spoiling, in this episode, we will be spoiling this film.

• 1:21:15David Sims?

  He sort of picks up Roseanne Arquette. Or she kind of leaves this breadcrumb of like, well, my roommate makes plaster of Paris paperweights of a bagel with cream cheese.

• 1:21:25Griffin Newman?

  Which I want.

• 1:21:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:27David Sims?

  I, I do, when he later in the movie is like, by the way, yes, I wanted to fuck you, but I do want the paperweight and where are they?

• 1:21:34Speaker 02

  The papers are floating around my room right now.

• 1:21:36David Sims?

  It actually would serve a practical purpose for me.

• 1:21:39Griffin Newman?

  I could have put the paperweight in the basket with the $20 bill and it stayed in there. If they made this movie today, she'd be giving him an Etsy link.

• 1:21:48Speaker 02

  She's on Marketplace.

• 1:21:49Griffin Newman?

  She wouldn't say, come to my apartment.

• 1:21:51Speaker 02

  I'm waiting for an embroidered Knicks tank top right now from Marketplace and that's what the deal here is.

• 1:21:57David Sims?

  A whole tank top takes forever to embroider.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  I know. She was like the earliest I can do is this weekend. I'm like, how fast are you embroidering?

• 1:22:08Griffin Newman?

  I remember the other point I was gonna make.

• 1:22:09David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:22:09Griffin Newman?

  Cause it's, it's invoking one of your favorite points.

• 1:22:13Griffin Newman?

  Fran Leibowitz, a close friend of Martin Scorsese directed two different things about her. The Criterion commentary is Marty and Fran.

• 1:22:21David Sims?

  I gotta listen to that.

• 1:22:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's good. Uh, but she has her great take.

• 1:22:25David Sims?

  She's just like, sodas are too expensive or whatever. You can't get a cab.

• 1:22:30Griffin Newman?

  It's a dollar per bubble.

• 1:22:33Griffin Newman?

  She has the great take that you love to bring up where the real devastation of the AIDS crisis was that it knocked out all the people who fucked.

• 1:22:39David Sims?

  Yes. She's like, everyone cool died and then New York sucked forever.

• 1:22:43Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. And this is a movie that's capturing the final moments of not just a New York city that feels a little bit dangerous and undeveloped. But also a New York city as like these communities are starting to get hollowed out.

• 1:22:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:55Griffin Newman?

  You know?

• 1:22:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:56Griffin Newman?

  And I think that's what's smart about it's sort of like, without ever directly stating it, making it this movie that's about sex and danger. And exploring the city and the nightlife and everything is you're watching a thing like disappearing in real time.

• 1:23:09David Sims?

  True.

• 1:23:09Griffin Newman?

  And even just the emptiness of the streets.

• 1:23:11David Sims?

  It's a little ghostly. Exactly.

• 1:23:13Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. That, that's, that's what the movie is about is sort of like, is, is any one night stand you have possibly going to lead to the end of everything.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. And even in that cavernous apartment, when he thinks that he's gonna go back out and there will be two people there and then there's just suddenly nobody there.

• 1:23:30Griffin Newman?

  Well, and it's also a straight man suddenly entering hookup situations that are, I would say, at this point in time, closer to the kind of like clandestine, deeply closeted, fearful circumstances that many queer hookups were happening in, down to just being like, who's fucking apartment is this? Why is that name crossed out? Like, everything is a little bit mysterious and risk versus reward for him. And it's all just driven by, God, that girl at the diner is really fucking hot. I'm gonna write down her number and try to just go to her place. Another thing that I think younger generations have like immense nostalgia for where it's like, you meet a person.

• 1:24:08David Sims?

  You'd pick someone up.

• 1:24:09Griffin Newman?

  And they just go like, come here later.

• 1:24:11David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:12Griffin Newman?

  You don't have to send 17 texts to be like, OMW, need me to pick anything up? Still good to come over?

• 1:24:19David Sims?

  You don't need to arrange like, uh, pretend like, hey, let me go up into your apartment and see what it's like.

• 1:24:25Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. You don't have to text the group chat like dead bodies in that room. You just hang up papers.

• 1:24:31Griffin Newman?

  Just hang up the papers. It, it's actually impressive how quick the turnaround time is on the flyers, cause they're also well designed.

• 1:24:36David Sims?

  They're well, they're well-

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  They look great.

• 1:24:38David Sims?

  She's talented.

• 1:24:38Griffin Newman?

  Yellow paper.

• 1:24:39David Sims?

  This is what he won't acknowledge. Like he does, he can't, he can't see the forest from the trees here. Like, once I'm in an apartment with Catherine O'Hara, I'm just like, everyone else I've forgot, I'm just like, what are we doing? Me and you, right now? Forget it.

• 1:24:49Griffin Newman?

  To paraphrase Ben.

• 1:24:51David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:24:52Griffin Newman?

  If I'm in this movie, it ends with me owning an island with Catherine O'Hara. I go, hey, this is the real thing. What if we leave the country and go somewhere where they maybe couldn't extradite me?

• 1:25:03David Sims?

  So, uh, he gets in a cab. And has a hilarious, chaotic cab ride where he loses his money.

• 1:25:11Griffin Newman?

  It's like a roller coaster ride.

• 1:25:12David Sims?

  Right. It's very, very funny.

• 1:25:14Speaker 02

  And he's trying to hold up his empty wallet as proof that there was once a $20 bill there. It's so funny.

• 1:25:19Griffin Newman?

  Look, that's-

• 1:25:20David Sims?

  Did these hold money? Right. Surely there was once money.

• 1:25:23Griffin Newman?

  The funniest moment in the movie is the subway moment, right? It's just like such perfectly dialed in.

• 1:25:28David Sims?

  Both subway moments.

• 1:25:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:29David Sims?

  The, the fare's gone up guy.

• 1:25:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:31David Sims?

  And then the later guy where-

• 1:25:32Speaker 02

  I love that guy.

• 1:25:33David Sims?

  He's just like, what if I go to a party?

• 1:25:35Griffin Newman?

  That one shot of him jumping, running straight into the cop and then having to backtrack. Yeah.

• 1:25:40David Sims?

  And that he jumps back out even though he could just walk through. So funny.

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  Like, that's the train. That's the one I wanted.

• 1:25:46David Sims?

  That is my work stop. Spring Street on the C and E.

• 1:25:50Griffin Newman?

  You work for Blank Check Productions.

• 1:25:51David Sims?

  Oh, that's so true.

• 1:25:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:52David Sims?

  And there my work stop of course is, we'll throw them off the scent.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  Are you taking the six from Spring or the A, C?

• 1:25:58David Sims?

  I take this, I take the C from my gym to work.

• 1:26:02Griffin Newman?

  Blank Check Productions, your stop is Run Concombre.

• 1:26:05David Sims?

  Yeah, that's right. Everyone get out there too. Run Concombre.

• 1:26:09David Sims?

  Yeah, no, the IND Sixth Avenue, uh, Spring Street stop is where they film all the subway stuff. Cause he's, he's stuck down there. He's stuck in Soho. But first of course, he gets to Kiki's. First, you know, before his trials really begin, he does, he invokes the taxi, the cabbie's wrath, but he makes it to Kiki's apartment.

• 1:26:27Griffin Newman?

  Right. He only gets kicked out at the moment he reveals that he doesn't have the money when he's already made it to the destination.

• 1:26:32David Sims?

  Marcy is Roseanne Arquette. Kiki is Fiorentina, but she's there and she's making-

• 1:26:37Speaker 03

  28 Howard Street.

• 1:26:38David Sims?

  Sure. Yeah. You can, you can go there anytime.

• 1:26:40Griffin Newman?

  How much does that cost now?

• 1:26:41David Sims?

  Okay. You want me to look it up? Zillow?

• 1:26:42Griffin Newman?

  Zillow it.

• 1:26:45David Sims?

  And, uh, she's making a giant paper mache sculpture of a screaming person. Uh, let's see, unit three, it says price on request. Fuck you. Just sell me.

• 1:26:55Griffin Newman?

  It's a multifamily building in New York. It was built in 1915.

• 1:26:59David Sims?

  I mean, those, so Soho does have, you know, these incredible cast iron like buildings that are so distinctive and cool. And obviously they all cost a billion dollars.

• 1:27:09Speaker 03

  Have you, have any of you ever been to one of those Soho lofts?

• 1:27:12David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:27:13Speaker 02

  Not a loft, no. I toured some horrible Soho apartments, but never anything like that.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. My, my buddy's aunt bought in the seventies, an apartment on Franklin Street.

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:27:26Speaker 03

  And so more like Tribeca, I guess. It was insane. It really was the same layout like it is in this movie. Just a giant open room with huge high ceilings. It was so nice.

• 1:27:39Griffin Newman?

  It's so funny. You see an apartment like that and the answer is either like, my family invented paper. And this is one of 20 places I own, or I was a waitress in 1972 and I took my tips one night and bought the building.

• 1:27:53David Sims?

  I can tell you that apartment three.

• 1:27:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:27:56David Sims?

  On 28 Howard Street, which is a one and a half bedroom, like four through unit rented for $17,000 a month.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  Do you have pictures?

• 1:28:08David Sims?

  I can send you some.

• 1:28:09Griffin Newman?

  Now to our listener, that is expensive and absurd and should be illegal.

• 1:28:13David Sims?

  Absolutely. I also, Ally sent you, um, uh, plaster of Paris paperweight that Ben found on Etsy.

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:28:19Griffin Newman?

  What, you sent it to me?

• 1:28:20David Sims?

  He sent it to us.

• 1:28:21Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank God.

• 1:28:22Speaker 02

  I'll be buying.

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  $78.

• 1:28:26David Sims?

  So.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  Worth every penny.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  Worth it.

• 1:28:28David Sims?

  So yeah, all right. So, so the first sort of set piece is right, like interacting with crazy old Kiki who's so cool and scary and sexy. And then Marcy comes home and sort of is odd. And there's the, the suspicion that there is a, a burn situation, I guess. I mean, how do we describe?

• 1:28:45Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry. I just need to call out the, the Etsy listing for this plaster of Paris bagel and cream cheese paperweight. The seller is Kiki's Bagels.

• 1:28:53David Sims?

  Yes. It's very funny. It's very, you know, it's not a coincidence. They're going for it. Yeah, come on, talk me through the Marcy Kiki apartment.

• 1:29:00Griffin Newman?

  This is another thing that feels a little AIDS coded to me of there's just sort of like something mysterious about her body. Linda Fiorentino at first keeps talking about how nice his skin is and how he doesn't have any scars and how bad scars are. And then he keeps seeing these things. He sees medication.

• 1:29:14David Sims?

  Burn creams or whatever.

• 1:29:15Griffin Newman?

  Right. He sees this book of burn victims.

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  And he has this very deep seated health anxiety from when he was younger.

• 1:29:20Griffin Newman?

  Totally. Yes.

• 1:29:21Speaker 02

  Cause something hap, he went to the burn ward.

• 1:29:25Speaker 02

  Even though he didn't have burns and the nurse was doing like psychological warfare on him of like, hey, if you take off your blindfold, we're doing more surgery on you.

• 1:29:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And right, he's sort of fascinated. He's worried about what he's gonna see if she undresses. But also still kind of fascinated and wanting an answer.

• 1:29:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:29:44Griffin Newman?

  And everything about this woman seems mysterious. You know, everything that was like alluring about her at the diner now all starts to feel a little bit dangerous or unhinged or messy. What's, what's like the Gen Z term? What would, how would we describe her?

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  Like she has a disorder for sure.

• 1:29:59Griffin Newman?

  Okay, that's the term now. The disorder.

• 1:30:02Speaker 02

  I can't diagnose. She's acting funny.

• 1:30:04Griffin Newman?

  Mentally unstable? Is that, is that what the kids say?

• 1:30:06David Sims?

  She seems right to be.

• 1:30:08Speaker 02

  She would have good Instagram stories is how we say it nicely.

• 1:30:11Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 1:30:12David Sims?

  And like, that is what he has, I feel like the, the bearish grasp of. He actually doesn't understand.

• 1:30:18Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:30:18David Sims?

  That really what's going on with her is she's just a very troubled person.

• 1:30:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:30:22David Sims?

  He thinks there's some like mysterious burn thing going on with her.

• 1:30:26Griffin Newman?

  He thinks like-

• 1:30:26David Sims?

  He's not just like, oh, she's wildly depressed or manic or something like that, you know, like-

• 1:30:31Griffin Newman?

  He's acting like if you pull the ribbon around her neck, her head will fall off. And instead it's like, this person has had several very abusive relationships.

• 1:30:38David Sims?

  No, yeah, indeed. Yeah.

• 1:30:43Griffin Newman?

  What are you typing?

• 1:30:44David Sims?

  Uh, my wife's asking for a good place to go for a drink tonight with her, with her girlie. It's not with me. I'm not invited.

• 1:30:50Griffin Newman?

  I might get all this.

• 1:30:51David Sims?

  I'm doing bedtime. That's fine.

• 1:30:54Griffin Newman?

  What books in the lineup? Do you, do you pre-select what you're gonna do for bedtime?

• 1:30:57David Sims?

  No, my daughter picks, obviously. For a while, she had these kinda like, basic, like Marvel superhero books that she bought. Like, when we went to the bookstore, she was like, Captain America.

• 1:31:07Griffin Newman?

  Are they the little golden books?

• 1:31:08David Sims?

  They're that vibe.

• 1:31:09Griffin Newman?

  But they're the ones that are like, hello, my name is Captain America. This is my shield.

• 1:31:13David Sims?

  It's like, a lot like that.

• 1:31:15Griffin Newman?

  It's like explaining his stats.

• 1:31:16David Sims?

  It's sort of explaining the origin story in a very, like, tasteful way, you know, whatever the origin story might be.

• 1:31:23Griffin Newman?

  It's like the back of a trading card, spread out across fifteen pages.

• 1:31:26David Sims?

  Yeah, they're really, they're awful. I mean, she's been reading lots of cool books as well.

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. Is she still rocking the Dwayne Johnson?

• 1:31:31David Sims?

  She hasn't touched on him in a while. Maybe he'll return. So, Ben can explain, but he bought my daughter a little golden book.

• 1:31:40Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:31:41David Sims?

  About the life of, the life and times of Dwayne Johnson.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  They make that.

• 1:31:45Griffin Newman?

  His divorce. His divorce is in the book.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  Someone's not like on Etsy making, that's like a real.

• 1:31:50David Sims?

  I'll show you the cover.

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  Wow. Was she just completely, like, taken? Wow.

• 1:31:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:57Speaker 03

  She calls it rock book.

• 1:32:01David Sims?

  It is, as I've said on this podcast before, oddly mostly concerned with the launch of his career, barely touches on the movies. It's mostly about him, like, being a football player.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  In like twenty years, she'll have references that kids her age don't have. She'll be like, you know, Dwayne's stats.

• 1:32:16David Sims?

  As a wrestler, right.

• 1:32:18Griffin Newman?

  What's smart is if he built a business flywheel in which all the different elements feed into themselves.

• 1:32:25David Sims?

  Yeah, no, what she, I mean, there's this book.

• 1:32:26Griffin Newman?

  He's finally ready to expand to the tequila space.

• 1:32:29David Sims?

  Tickle octopus, if you guys know that one. It's a big one for her right now. I don't know, you know, she's got lots of them.

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  They can tickle, cause they have eight arms.

• 1:32:35David Sims?

  It's about a bunch, a family of cavemen who like find an octopus and then they, like, it teaches them to laugh. I don't know, it's a very strange book.

• 1:32:42Griffin Newman?

  I was not expecting that tickle octopus would be out.

• 1:32:46David Sims?

  Neither did I. Neither did I. And yet, um, but, you know, okay, so, all right, why does he leave the apartment? He's just unnerved. He just is freaked out, right?

• 1:32:55Griffin Newman?

  No one transitions like David Sims.

• 1:32:58David Sims?

  I'm just, I'm like, I'm keeping us going. I'm keeping us going, baby. No, no, like, right? Like, there's no, he, she's just increasingly odd and he just kind of freaks out, right?

• 1:33:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and he's also had the, the extended flirtation with Linda Florentino, where you feel him.

• 1:33:12David Sims?

  She seems down to fuck. And Roseanne Arquette's like, kinda like odd and tough to, tough to figure out.

• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  Top off and she's like, is she home yet or what?

• 1:33:20Griffin Newman?

  Asks for a massage, falls asleep on his shoulder. David's fanning himself.

• 1:33:24David Sims?

  I mean, she's just such an original crush for me.

• 1:33:26Griffin Newman?

  Her voice is so deep in this movie too. I know she's got the smoky voice to begin with. This feels like the deepest, where even when you hear on the intercom, and she's like, come upstairs.

• 1:33:36David Sims?

  I just want to take a look. She sounds like fucking Jigsaw.

• 1:33:40Speaker 02

  You wanna play a game?

• 1:33:41Griffin Newman?

  She does kinda Jigsaw Griffin Dunn a little bit. She has a light Jigsaw.

• 1:33:46David Sims?

  You're right. She kind of teaches him a lesson. And it is like saw in that it's like, the sculpture's there from the beginning.

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  You have five minutes to give me a massage, or else you end up inside paper mache.

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  She's just so cool in this movie. When she throws the keys with her mouth, awesome.

• 1:34:02David Sims?

  That's another, like, New York thing that, there's not enough of that anymore. The old dropping the key out the window, cause I don't have like a fancy buzzer.

• 1:34:10Speaker 03

  Now it's a friggin' fob.

• 1:34:12Griffin Newman?

  Nowadays, you're airdropping a door code.

• 1:34:15Speaker 02

  No, I was fishing in my bag for my keys the other day and another guy who lives in my building walked up, had his app open and he did that.

• 1:34:23Griffin Newman?

  Fuck that!

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  Pissed me off.

• 1:34:25Griffin Newman?

  The door opened automatically when he?

• 1:34:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, he has the app to open the door. I was like, that's gross.

• 1:34:31Griffin Newman?

  What's the, the app called? Knob?

• 1:34:33David Sims?

  Is it Castle? Is it Castle? We use Castle to get into my.

• 1:34:37Griffin Newman?

  Castle?

• 1:34:38David Sims?

  Yeah, to get into my, uh, office.

• 1:34:39Griffin Newman?

  Nathan Fillion's app?

• 1:34:41David Sims?

  Yeah, it's Nathan Fillion.

• 1:34:42Griffin Newman?

  The show's not enough for him?

• 1:34:43David Sims?

  Griffin, the app has an incredible amount of fun sexual chemistry with the cop, and he's the author, and that's all in the app. You know, the app is just buzzing with this kind of like, will they, won't they thing.

• 1:34:55Griffin Newman?

  Bones, but he's more arrogant or something?

• 1:34:57David Sims?

  I guess so. I just, I don't really, I never really watched Castle, but like, in Bones, at least, it's like, he's like, I work for the government, I, like, I'm an FBI agent or whatever, like, my job is to do this. And we need you anytime we find Bones.

• 1:35:11Griffin Newman?

  She's a bone expert.

• 1:35:12David Sims?

  And so the tension is there where he's like, I really, this is really more my thing. And she's like, but the bones, right? And he's like, ah! In Castle, it's what, it's just like, there's a crime and he's like, I read a book about a crime once. Like, she should just be like, shut the fuck up, be quiet.

• 1:35:24Griffin Newman?

  He's a crime novelist and it's like, he writes the best mysteries so he can solve them.

• 1:35:28David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:35:29Griffin Newman?

  It is, it's crazy that Nathan Fillion was like.

• 1:35:32David Sims?

  We love him.

• 1:35:32Griffin Newman?

  King of the geeks, oh, it's a shame he never became a movie star. You watch Firefly, he should have been Harrison Ford or whatever. And then he's just like, twenty years of network television.

• 1:35:43David Sims?

  Castle and, uh, The Rookie.

• 1:35:44Griffin Newman?

  The Rookie.

• 1:35:45David Sims?

  Remember that?

• 1:35:46Griffin Newman?

  Ben started leaning in when we said Bones.

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  David, what are you doing?

• 1:35:50David Sims?

  Sorry. I just, I can't help but talk about Bones whenever it comes up.

• 1:35:54Griffin Newman?

  I get it.

• 1:35:55David Sims?

  It's just so funny.

• 1:35:55Griffin Newman?

  You're telling me?

• 1:35:56David Sims?

  It's so funny.

• 1:35:57Speaker 02

  New York is overrun with Bones fever right now.

• 1:35:59David Sims?

  There's so many bone crimes.

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  You can feel it.

• 1:36:01David Sims?

  Ben, Bones!

• 1:36:02Griffin Newman?

  Bones, Bones!

• 1:36:05David Sims?

  After hours, okay.

• 1:36:05Speaker 03

  I'm so excited. Oh, I'm doing it now.

• 1:36:08David Sims?

  Go on, go on.

• 1:36:10Speaker 03

  I'm going to Prague later this year.

• 1:36:12David Sims?

  There's a bone church. There is a bone church there. It's very cool.

• 1:36:15Speaker 02

  That's cool. I've always wanted to go to the catacombs, but I'm like, that's haunted. I'm gonna die.

• 1:36:19David Sims?

  No, you'll be fine. Just me, I'll go with someone who knows how to get out.

• 1:36:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, like Linda Florentino.

• 1:36:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh my god.

• 1:36:26Griffin Newman?

  Or Emily Deschanel, that's probably the better choice.

• 1:36:28David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:36:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:29David Sims?

  But, and then, and you can have some will they, won't they tension with her.

• 1:36:31Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, she's great at that.

• 1:36:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:36:34Griffin Newman?

  And you can deliver a pizza late and she chews her gum really like in exaggerated way.

• 1:36:38David Sims?

  Oh yeah, right.

• 1:36:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:39David Sims?

  I'm not paying for that. That's what she says.

• 1:36:41Griffin Newman?

  Spider-Man two. Do the kids like Spider-Man two?

• 1:36:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:45Griffin Newman?

  Nowadays, they like.

• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  Are you talking, like, the Tobey Maguire one? Yeah, fuck yeah. The only Marvel movies I've seen are Spider-Man and Spider-Man two. I was obsessed with them, yeah. I was obsessed with them as a kid. I had a beta fish named Peter Parker.

• 1:36:56Griffin Newman?

  This is, this is my sister as well, basically tapped out on all superhero movies after the Raimi trilogy. I got her to see No Way Home because I spoiled for her.

• 1:37:07David Sims?

  Like Tobey's.

• 1:37:08Griffin Newman?

  Maguire's back. And that was the only thing in the world of superheroes that would possibly.

• 1:37:11Speaker 02

  That's the only thing that could get me back too. When he has the tray and he catches all the shit on it, ugh.

• 1:37:15David Sims?

  He'd do be doing that.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  Chills thinking about that.

• 1:37:17Griffin Newman?

  Those movies are so good.

• 1:37:18David Sims?

  They're a lot of fun.

• 1:37:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:19Griffin Newman?

  And every year, they get better. This is the thing. The genre gets worse and the movies get better.

• 1:37:24David Sims?

  Well, it's just like building up a callus. Like, they, they punch it with a new movie and he's like, I'm only stronger, right?

• 1:37:29Griffin Newman?

  It's a martial artist who's broken all their fingers so that the punches are so fucking hard.

• 1:37:34David Sims?

  So, okay, he, he exits this situation. He tries to take the, the subway. It's past midnight. The fare has gone up to one fifty. It's so fucking funny.

• 1:37:44Griffin Newman?

  It's so good.

• 1:37:45David Sims?

  So that's when he ends up at the John Heard bar, which I wanna, I have the location of that one too. That is, um, uh, the Emerald Pub, now closed, but it was on three oh eight Spring Street.

• 1:37:56Griffin Newman?

  Close fairly recent? When did it close?

• 1:37:58David Sims?

  Uh.

• 1:37:59Speaker 02

  What's there now?

• 1:38:00David Sims?

  Yeah, I think it closed pretty recently, cause like, there's like a Yelp profile for it.

• 1:38:04Griffin Newman?

  I've been there, yeah.

• 1:38:06David Sims?

  Uh, what's there now? I think nothing.

• 1:38:08Griffin Newman?

  Oh boy.

• 1:38:08David Sims?

  Let's get something there.

• 1:38:09Speaker 02

  I stay walking on Spring Street.

• 1:38:12David Sims?

  I mean, that's pretty close to like Eagle Bar, I mean, not, sorry, not Eagle Bar, um, Ear Inn, you know Ear Inn?

• 1:38:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:38:17Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 1:38:17David Sims?

  That's one of the best, like, old school bars in New York.

• 1:38:19Speaker 03

  That place rules.

• 1:38:20David Sims?

  Which is even further east and further west.

• 1:38:22Griffin Newman?

  A little after hoursy. It doesn't feel violent.

• 1:38:25David Sims?

  I go there all the time. If anyone wants to stalk me, I go there for lunch a lot.

• 1:38:28Griffin Newman?

  That bar is like what he's looking for. Like, in, in, in Paul's dreams, he finds Ear Inn and is able to just kinda fucking relax there for a bit.

• 1:38:38David Sims?

  Okay, so yeah, he ends up at the bar with John Heard, uh, who I think is so well cast because John Heard does have.

• 1:38:43Griffin Newman?

  He's a little scary.

• 1:38:44David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. He has the kinda blue collary energy of like, yeah, you know, I'm fucking Teddy, but, right, he's just a little threatening.

• 1:38:50Griffin Newman?

  He was an intense guy.

• 1:38:51David Sims?

  And he's like, yeah, well, yes.

• 1:38:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:38:52David Sims?

  Yes, he was an intense guy.

• 1:38:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:38:54David Sims?

  I think his reputation preceded him too. That's in the dossier.

• 1:38:57Griffin Newman?

  A hundred percent. His, his career sort of, uh, you know, he was one of the interesting young men leads.

• 1:39:04David Sims?

  Right. Like Marty was basically, when he was suggested, was like, he's talented, but isn't he like fucking crazy?

• 1:39:11Griffin Newman?

  It was less extreme than Eric Roberts, but a little bit parallel to that of like, this guy's good, but his life too short. And he's already at this point now, like, maybe you have like three scenes.

• 1:39:21David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:39:21Griffin Newman?

  Maybe the movie isn't pinned on you. And then, of course, being Kevin's dad becomes weirdly the like, reputation washing thing that everyone remembers him for.

• 1:39:29David Sims?

  But, uh, apparently Amy Robinson like went to him and was like, Marty wants you to do this movie, but he's worried about you. And Heard was like, I get it, he has nothing to worry about. And like, was fine.

• 1:39:39Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:39:39David Sims?

  Right, behaved himself.

• 1:39:40Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:42David Sims?

  But he was just like an intense angry dude. Yes, I mean, yeah. I mean, just like a really intense dude.

• 1:39:48David Sims?

  And, uh, so what do we think of John Heard and so on and so forth in this, uh, movie after hours that we're discussing today, guys?

• 1:39:55Griffin Newman?

  I mean, it's just the stuff in this movie that could be so overplayed, that is so elegantly done. And it does feel like this is the movie where Marty gets to flex a little Lubitch stuff, who was obviously a big filmmaking hero of his.

• 1:40:07David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:40:07Griffin Newman?

  But just in the sort of timing and the elegant characterization, but the, the tightness of time between when John Heard makes a joke about someone committing suicide, and then turning around and picking up the phone and getting the news that his girlfriend committed suicide, and then having to reveal to Griffin Dunn accidentally that he is the boyfriend of Roseanne Arquette, like, all of that folding in.

• 1:40:31David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:31Griffin Newman?

  And all playing out across his face and being played totally straight.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  And it's so fucking funny.

• 1:40:35Griffin Newman?

  It's so funny, cause the comedy's all just in the pacing of it. Yeah.

• 1:40:39David Sims?

  The, the sort of video gamey eighties vibe of like, I can't open the cash register without these keys. So I'm gonna give you these keys that are gonna get you into my apartment, so you can get the other keys. It's just like, there's no backups.

• 1:40:55Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:40:55David Sims?

  Everything makes sense in this screenplay.

• 1:40:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:58David Sims?

  Even if it's this like ludicrous escalation of like, he can't fucking, as you're saying, like, he could always just walk home.

• 1:41:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:04David Sims?

  Surely, he could just walk home, but like, it's like, no, so you hold on to this so that I can take that, and so I have to come back and get that from you, you know, like, it's a lot of like, well, Zelda-y.

• 1:41:12Speaker 03

  And there's been the burglaries lately, and he's a stranger in this building.

• 1:41:16David Sims?

  And he floods the toilet.

• 1:41:18Griffin Newman?

  I think there's the other thing factored into it, which is, there's the part of him that's like, I did come down here for Roseanne Arquette. I know I ran away panicked.

• 1:41:27David Sims?

  But if I leave without scoring.

• 1:41:29Griffin Newman?

  Right. Right. Or, oh, do I need to score with someone else because I made the choice to leave my apartment at eleven thirty PM?

• 1:41:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:41:35Griffin Newman?

  Or do I ultimately give her another shot? I simply would never do it.

• 1:41:40Speaker 02

  If someone asked me to leave my apartment at eleven thirty, absolutely.

• 1:41:43Speaker 03

  I'd be laughing.

• 1:41:45Griffin Newman?

  I love being home so much.

• 1:41:47Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm such a night owl. I would do that.

• 1:41:49David Sims?

  Now, even now?

• 1:41:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:51David Sims?

  At eleven thirty, I'm gonna text you.

• 1:41:53Speaker 02

  What are you doing at eleven thirty?

• 1:41:54Speaker 03

  Going out and getting into trouble.

• 1:41:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. No, I love when she's like, you wanna go get a cup of coffee? And he's like, is anything open right now? It's like, like twelve thirty one. He's such a loser.

• 1:42:04David Sims?

  The great Dick Miller.

• 1:42:05Griffin Newman?

  The great Dick.

• 1:42:06David Sims?

  At the bar, sorry, at the diner, which is, I wanna look that one up too. The River Diner, which is gone, but it's like an old school classic, like railcar kinda diner.

• 1:42:15Griffin Newman?

  I bet it's a TikTok house now.

• 1:42:19Speaker 02

  They got those fucking croissants there.

• 1:42:21Griffin Newman?

  Oh, my god, the succsants.

• 1:42:24David Sims?

  The what?

• 1:42:25Griffin Newman?

  They suck.

• 1:42:25David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:42:26Griffin Newman?

  You said those croissants suck, so now I've decided that's their trendy name, the succsants. You gotta try the shitty croissant. It sucks so hard.

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  More workshop than that.

• 1:42:34David Sims?

  Right. That actually wasn't in Soho, the River Diner. That was up by like kinda with the Javits, you know?

• 1:42:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:42:40David Sims?

  Over by the water in the thirties or whatever. They used to call, they called it like diner alley. There used to be so many of those kinds of diners over there. Um, I assume for the, you know, guys who worked the ships or whatever. I don't know.

• 1:42:51Speaker 03

  It was Thirty Seventh and Eleventh Avenue.

• 1:42:54David Sims?

  Yeah, that was a cool part of town.

• 1:42:55Griffin Newman?

  It's one of those diners.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  Hell.

• 1:42:58David Sims?

  I don't know what you're talking about. I know your favorite neighborhood in New York is the Hudson Yards.

• 1:43:02Speaker 02

  Hell's Kitchen. I love Hudson Yards and Hell's Kitchen.

• 1:43:04David Sims?

  You love to go to the vessel?

• 1:43:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:06Griffin Newman?

  My favorite neighborhood is the basement of the Javits Center.

• 1:43:08David Sims?

  Right. We love the Javits Center. That's where your favorite place to eat, your favorite place to hang out and party.

• 1:43:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:43:14David Sims?

  Um, yes, I went out to dinner at nine PM last night. I wanna brag.

• 1:43:18Griffin Newman?

  Where?

• 1:43:20David Sims?

  Burger King?

• 1:43:20Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, oh.

• 1:43:21David Sims?

  You know Bartolo?

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:23David Sims?

  In the end.

• 1:43:23Speaker 02

  What'd you get?

• 1:43:24David Sims?

  Oh, what we got? You wanna hear? Okay. Got these mushroom things. We got the anchovies that are on like the piece of toast with like a full rectangle of butter underneath them.

• 1:43:33Griffin Newman?

  Who'd you go with?

• 1:43:34David Sims?

  Ellen and Rachel.

• 1:43:35Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well.

• 1:43:36Speaker 03

  Well, well, well.

• 1:43:37Griffin Newman?

  Must be nice.

• 1:43:39David Sims?

  Uh, we got these like cod fritters. We got this like pea salad. We got a big ol' lamb, rack of lamb.

• 1:43:46Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:43:46Griffin Newman?

  David, what are you doing?

• 1:43:47David Sims?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:43:48Speaker 02

  Sorry, that was a mess.

• 1:43:49Griffin Newman?

  What a record show. I just, I just want, I want people to see, I'm keeping things on rails today.

• 1:43:54David Sims?

  I was done with dinner at eleven.

• 1:43:56Griffin Newman?

  It's not just me. We're seeing in real time. It's not just me.

• 1:43:59David Sims?

  I was done with dinner at eleven.

• 1:44:00Griffin Newman?

  Congratulations.

• 1:44:01David Sims?

  And I was like, oh, my god, this is so late. The idea that after that I would go out, like that I would be like, alright, time for me to begin my night? I would, I would die.

• 1:44:12Griffin Newman?

  This is a genuine humble brag, but anytime, it's not like it happens every week, but occasionally someone will invite me to an SNL after party and I'm like, that sounds like a fucking nightmare.

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  Horrifying.

• 1:44:23Griffin Newman?

  You mean I can't get there until one AM? I'm gonna be awake, but I'm gonna be awake in bed watching The Larry Sanders Show. That's my night.

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  I went to SNL.

• 1:44:34David Sims?

  Wow.

• 1:44:35Speaker 02

  On the weekend.

• 1:44:36David Sims?

  Brag, brag, brag.

• 1:44:36Speaker 02

  Brag, um, in twenty twenty three on the weekend. It was the same time as daylight savings, so not only did I get home at like six AM, but it was like seven now.

• 1:44:45Griffin Newman?

  You time travel.

• 1:44:46Speaker 02

  I've never felt worse in my life.

• 1:44:47Griffin Newman?

  It's terrible.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:48David Sims?

  That, I, that does seem crazy to me. I mean, even watching SNL in my house when it's done, I'd be like, I'm tired, I'm too late.

• 1:44:55Griffin Newman?

  So tired, yeah.

• 1:44:56David Sims?

  Uh, so, okay. What, alright, what happens? Uh, she, he, he goes back to, like, he confronts the thief stealing the, um, he gets kicked out of.

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  The TV.

• 1:45:05David Sims?

  He goes to Herd's apartment. He floods it. He gets kicked out by the suspicious neighbors, right?

• 1:45:10Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:10David Sims?

  He ends up at Kiki's and the Cheech and Chong are stealing the sculpture.

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:15David Sims?

  He chases them off.

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:17David Sims?

  And that's when he then comes across Roseanne Arquette dead.

• 1:45:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:45:21David Sims?

  A move that should stop this movie in its tracks.

• 1:45:24Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:45:24David Sims?

  Right, that is so insanely dark.

• 1:45:26Griffin Newman?

  It should be too dark.

• 1:45:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:45:28Griffin Newman?

  And either the movie will falter because it can never recover from how upsetting that is, or because it's too flippant about it.

• 1:45:35David Sims?

  It just turns it into like weightless, ridiculous.

• 1:45:38Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 1:45:38David Sims?

  Right, yeah. And instead, you're just like, that is, to me at least, that is the proper escalation of the nightmare this guy is in.

• 1:45:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:45:46David Sims?

  Where it's like, every social interaction is going wrong in weird ways. He's becoming an enemy of people, kind of by mistake.

• 1:45:53Griffin Newman?

  Also, I mean, once again.

• 1:45:54David Sims?

  Oh, and by the way, the girl you wanted to hook up with, she is dead and you were the last person who saw her.

• 1:45:58Speaker 02

  And the guy with the leather is like, like, are you the guy? Like, that's fucked up what you did. Like, I heard all about it. We've been talking about you. You're a real asshole.

• 1:46:07David Sims?

  If you're in a nightmare, like, it's just what you, right? Like, you imagine this would happen to you.

• 1:46:11Griffin Newman?

  But it's also, it's, once again, it's the eighties relationship between sex and death, you know?

• 1:46:15David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:46:15Griffin Newman?

  It happens in this accelerated way and he obviously never even sleeps with her.

• 1:46:19David Sims?

  To me, it's more like sex, the relationship, it's like sex and high fives. High five.

• 1:46:24Griffin Newman?

  That's what you want, ideally.

• 1:46:27Griffin Newman?

  That's your closer?

• 1:46:29David Sims?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:46:30Speaker 02

  You know, when you have sex and then you high five after.

• 1:46:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Fucking awesome.

• 1:46:33David Sims?

  No, no, I think that's a great call. Like, yeah, it's the eighties. Like, no longer are we in a free love era. It's more just like, oh, you're horny? You might like end up dead.

• 1:46:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:46:41David Sims?

  Or at least might end up with a dead body on your hands and like no subway fare.

• 1:46:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. No, I think these are like very deliberate lines this movie's drawing.

• 1:46:48David Sims?

  And other ways, I'm trying to think of other ways to escape Soho for him, apart from just walking.

• 1:46:53Speaker 02

  There are so many trains down there.

• 1:46:54David Sims?

  That is so true. There are so many.

• 1:46:56Speaker 02

  Like, you gotta be able to hop one turnstile somewhere on, in Lower Manhattan.

• 1:47:00David Sims?

  But it's, it's like this dream state of like, no, there's just a force field.

• 1:47:04Griffin Newman?

  It's also, it's what's good about that scene is you buy that he wouldn't try it again because the timing is so catastrophically bad.

• 1:47:12David Sims?

  Too embarrassing.

• 1:47:12Speaker 02

  Happened to me on the way here, by the way.

• 1:47:14David Sims?

  You tried to hop a turnstile?

• 1:47:15Speaker 02

  No, I got to the train right as it was, like, the doors were closing. And then I had to wait seventeen minutes for a Brooklyn-bound train.

• 1:47:21David Sims?

  Wait, what? Which train? The F?

• 1:47:24Griffin Newman?

  I, I had a twenty-three the other day. I couldn't believe it.

• 1:47:28David Sims?

  Thirty?

• 1:47:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:29David Sims?

  A dirty thirty?

• 1:47:31Speaker 02

  F at, I don't even, it was like midday.

• 1:47:34Griffin Newman?

  Illegal.

• 1:47:35David Sims?

  That's fucked up. Come on.

• 1:47:36Speaker 02

  It was like prime hours.

• 1:47:38David Sims?

  So, come on.

• 1:47:39Speaker 03

  I fucking, the other night, trying to get home from Manhattan, after our screening.

• 1:47:45Griffin Newman?

  We saw Disclosure Day.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:47:47Griffin Newman?

  But we can't disclose it yet.

• 1:47:47Speaker 02

  Did you like it?

• 1:47:48Griffin Newman?

  Oh, no, we'll have seen it already, months ago. It fucking, it is awesome.

• 1:47:51Speaker 02

  Yay.

• 1:47:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:53David Sims?

  It's so good. So tender. Yeah.

• 1:47:54Speaker 02

  How long, is it, how long is it?

• 1:47:56David Sims?

  Two hours twenty.

• 1:47:57Speaker 02

  Gorgeous.

• 1:47:58David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  Feels, feels robust, but it moves.

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  Two twenty is the longest a movie can be in my mind. Like, three hours feel shorter than two twenty, but I think for a movie like that, I want it to be two twenty.

• 1:48:07David Sims?

  It's not overstaying. It moves pretty, I don't know. Ben was a little shiftier than me, maybe. I can't remember.

• 1:48:11Speaker 03

  No, I like Alien. Alien, good.

• 1:48:13David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  Um, I live off the G train, wasn't running, had to walk home from the seven.

• 1:48:19Speaker 02

  How long did that take?

• 1:48:20Speaker 03

  Twenty minutes.

• 1:48:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  The fuck?

• 1:48:23Griffin Newman?

  But you'll have moved by the time this episode comes out, God willing.

• 1:48:26Speaker 02

  Let's all dox ourselves at the end of this.

• 1:48:27David Sims?

  Okay, let's all say our subway stops right now.

• 1:48:29Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:48:30David Sims?

  Three, two.

• 1:48:32Griffin Newman?

  Mount Kisco.

• 1:48:33Speaker 02

  He's Broadway F.

• 1:48:35David Sims?

  It's a great stop. Actually, in a nightmare, actually a nightmare stop.

• 1:48:37Speaker 02

  It's actually the worst place on earth.

• 1:48:39David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, I.

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  Well, for, trying to transfer to the one at Fourteenth made me, um, wanna die.

• 1:48:44David Sims?

  Don't do that.

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  Can't even talk about, that is after hours.

• 1:48:46David Sims?

  Never do that.

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  That's what, after hours happens there.

• 1:48:48Griffin Newman?

  From L to one.

• 1:48:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:49Griffin Newman?

  That walk sucks.

• 1:48:50David Sims?

  The, the, the tunnel.

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  It's so fucking long.

• 1:48:52Speaker 03

  Well, cuz it's, you're going from Sixth to Seventh Avenue.

• 1:48:54Griffin Newman?

  I, I heard Richard Bachman got inspiration from doing that walk, if you catch my drift.

• 1:48:59David Sims?

  It's, the novel's called The Long Walk.

• 1:49:02Griffin Newman?

  Sucks, people die. Mark Hamill over at.

• 1:49:04David Sims?

  A lot of diarrhea.

• 1:49:05Speaker 02

  God damn.

• 1:49:06Speaker 03

  Um, so Horst and Linda Florentine leave to go to Berlin.

• 1:49:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  Yes. They leave a note. He's discovered the body, so what does he do? He calls nine one one and then he puts up his own signs.

• 1:49:19Griffin Newman?

  He puts up six signs with arrows pointing to dead body?

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  It's so fucked up, but funny.

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  It's really funny.

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:26Griffin Newman?

  But it's also one of these things where it's like, he's not responsible, he's not discovered with the body, but he also knows that they saw him there. This is clearly a troubled person, but he, this is where you just start the hell spiral in the movie, where everything after this point starts to feel hallucinatory because he just can't even imagine, like, is this my last night as a free man? How does this catch up to me?

• 1:49:51Speaker 02

  This tru, this is the perfect movie for someone who walks around thinking everyone's mad at them all the time. Like, this is.

• 1:49:56Griffin Newman?

  Good take.

• 1:49:56Speaker 02

  Are you mad at me cinema?

• 1:49:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:49:58Speaker 02

  It's perfect.

• 1:49:58Griffin Newman?

  Right. Are you dead at me?

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  Don't die on me, please.

• 1:50:02Griffin Newman?

  The meanest thing you could do is die next to me.

• 1:50:04Speaker 02

  Am I about to kill you? Yeah.

• 1:50:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  So good.

• 1:50:07David Sims?

  Ha, Club Berlin real, right? Or, no?

• 1:50:11Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm not sure.

• 1:50:11David Sims?

  I'm not sure. I, I.

• 1:50:13Griffin Newman?

  There's that bar Berlin.

• 1:50:14David Sims?

  There is, yeah.

• 1:50:15Griffin Newman?

  But that's a different place, right?

• 1:50:16David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe it's made up. I don't know.

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  I was wondering that. It looked out of place. It didn't look like anywhere in Lower Manhattan.

• 1:50:22David Sims?

  Yeah. I like that you need a mohawk to get in there, basically. Yeah. Ben, would you shave your head into a mohawk?

• 1:50:28Speaker 03

  I never did. I never did in my punk days.

• 1:50:31Griffin Newman?

  You got a little Tintin flip going on today, which is kind of, it's, it's Belgian punk. Now it's going down, but when you, earlier you had it a little flipped.

• 1:50:41Speaker 02

  Did you ever go to Warped Tour?

• 1:50:43Speaker 03

  Uh, no.

• 1:50:44Speaker 02

  Wow, okay.

• 1:50:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:50:46Speaker 03

  I missed out.

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, same.

• 1:50:48David Sims?

  Never?

• 1:50:49Speaker 02

  No. I was like ten.

• 1:50:50David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  Is it still happening?

• 1:50:52Griffin Newman?

  We all were.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were, we were six years old.

• 1:50:56David Sims?

  Uh, returned in twenty twenty five for its thirtieth anniversary, but I think that may have been a one-off.

• 1:51:00Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:51:01David Sims?

  Oh, no, there, it's coming back. You should go.

• 1:51:04Speaker 02

  I don't know if that's my scene.

• 1:51:06David Sims?

  Hmm, Orlando? You don't wanna be in Orlando?

• 1:51:08Speaker 02

  Come on, I love Orlando.

• 1:51:22David Sims?

  That, this is when Catherine O'Hara enters, right?

• 1:51:26Speaker 02

  No, the girl with the beehive.

• 1:51:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Terry Gar. He goes the second time.

• 1:51:30Speaker 02

  We did it out of order because she-

• 1:51:31David Sims?

  I think we've done it out of order, yeah.

• 1:51:33Speaker 02

  She dies and then he goes to get his keys and then that's when he, the guy finds out that his ex-girlfriend died and that's how he finds out that he just killed-

• 1:51:40David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Well, did the kills, yeah.

• 1:51:41David Sims?

  That, that, that's who that is. But, uh, right now, but isn't, doesn't he first have Catherine O'Hara and then he tries to get into Club Berlin?

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  No, because he meets Catherine O'Hara after-

• 1:51:53David Sims?

  There's sort of two Catherine O'Hara chunks, right?

• 1:51:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:51:57David Sims?

  He's with her and then he comes back to her. Griffin?

• 1:51:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:52:00David Sims?

  What are you doing? Are you trying to find this?

• 1:52:01Griffin Newman?

  No, I ordered the bagel paperweight.

• 1:52:03David Sims?

  For all your papers?

• 1:52:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I'm gonna get some.

• 1:52:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, he goes to Berlin, gets his head shaved.

• 1:52:11Speaker 02

  Marty's there.

• 1:52:12David Sims?

  Marty's there, Martin Scorsese, as, uh, the searchlight operator.

• 1:52:17Griffin Newman?

  And then, no, I'm just, I just, I, I love him on camera.

• 1:52:20Speaker 02

  It's great.

• 1:52:22Speaker 03

  He gets, uh, he tries to hail the same cab-

• 1:52:25David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:52:25Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:52:26Speaker 03

  From the beginning of the movie that he was unable to pay.

• 1:52:28Griffin Newman?

  And he's like, "Look, I got, I got the $20 now."

• 1:52:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:52:32Griffin Newman?

  And the guy's like, "Yeah, you owe me $20. You got $0."

• 1:52:35Speaker 03

  And Catherine O'Hara opens the door really quickly, hits him in his arm. He's got a bloody arm. She offers to bandage it up.

• 1:52:43Griffin Newman?

  We should call out, right? She's the woman getting out of the cab, but we should call out, you, you mentioned Dick Miller, but he's the second kindly-

• 1:52:49David Sims?

  The nice diner waiter.

• 1:52:50Griffin Newman?

  Who, who introduces the title of the film, which is, he's right. He's like, "This is, this time of night."

• 1:52:56David Sims?

  Yeah. You're in a parallel world.

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  It feels so good when he says it.

• 1:53:00David Sims?

  And it's just, what a pun he's got. You know, him just basically looking right down the camera and delivering the thesis of the movie, you're just like, "Do that in every-"

• 1:53:08Griffin Newman?

  David, we do Dante. You're gonna get that every fucking week.

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  That's not when he enters though, after Catherine, cause he-

• 1:53:15David Sims?

  No, cause he's earlier.

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  He's with Rosanna, yeah. She's talking about her husband loving the Wizard of Oz.

• 1:53:19Griffin Newman?

  I just wanted to make that connection, cause also he introduces the title, he gives her the 20, he gives, uh, the $20.

• 1:53:25David Sims?

  Is it that he would say surrender Dorothy after he came?

• 1:53:27Speaker 02

  Would that be a deal breaker for you?

• 1:53:29David Sims?

  No, whatever. I think after a while, I'd be like, "Every time? Really?"

• 1:53:33Griffin Newman?

  It's getting annoying, yeah. Um, I'd rather they do the, uh-

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  I'd rather they do shoot the dog.

• 1:53:41David Sims?

  From, from, from Wicked? Okay.

• 1:53:43Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:53:44David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:53:45Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, oh. Um, Ben, you wanna try one? Uh.

• 1:53:52David Sims?

  I just need them to wear like a printout of Hot Scarecrow's face.

• 1:53:57Griffin Newman?

  Oh, what a good face. Talking about good skin on film.

• 1:54:01David Sims?

  Hmm, just give me that kinda hay face, right.

• 1:54:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I mean, the only hotter man is Bach, Metal Bach, Tin Bach.

• 1:54:07David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, Bach, uh, right, Tin Man Bach. Uh, Tin, Tin, yeah, Tin, Tin Bach.

• 1:54:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, what a good movie.

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:54:14David Sims?

  Did you see the Wicked's?

• 1:54:15Speaker 02

  I have, I saw Wicked one.

• 1:54:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:17Speaker 02

  And I said, "That's enough."

• 1:54:19David Sims?

  That's called making the right call. That's called protecting yourself.

• 1:54:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:22David Sims?

  That's called, yep, that's just smart, smart, smart. Um, yep, cause my reaction after Wicked 2, as Griffin can tell everyone, was, uh, whoa, we had Wicked 1, you know, we all had Wicked 1.

• 1:54:31Speaker 02

  I watched Wicked 1 and I was like, "If there are generously two good songs in this, I don't think 2 needs to be a part of my journey."

• 1:54:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:54:39David Sims?

  No, no, and it never will be.

• 1:54:40Speaker 02

  All love to the cast. They're very talented.

• 1:54:43David Sims?

  But truly movies that are already forgotten because of how bad 2 was, I feel.

• 1:54:46Griffin Newman?

  I kind of.

• 1:54:47David Sims?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:54:48Speaker 02

  Came and went.

• 1:54:48David Sims?

  If 2 had like somehow nailed the landing, people would be like, "Man, Wicked, remember that? Like blew up the box office."

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  And Ariana like got COVID during the press tour. It was just like weird.

• 1:54:57David Sims?

  Hmm, cursed vibes. What's Ariana doing?

• 1:54:59Speaker 02

  She just released a song.

• 1:55:00Griffin Newman?

  Her in law.

• 1:55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:02David Sims?

  That's right. I was, I was like, "I know she's in a movie this year."

• 1:55:04Speaker 02

  She has a new song out today.

• 1:55:06David Sims?

  What's your song about?

• 1:55:07Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know what it's called. I haven't looked yet.

• 1:55:11David Sims?

  It's called Kate That I Made You Love Me.

• 1:55:15Speaker 03

  Hmm. Okay, so Catherine O'Hara drives an ice cream truck. She offers to give him a ride.

• 1:55:20David Sims?

  I mean, who is cooler than her? She drives an ice cream truck?

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 1:55:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 1:55:26David Sims?

  I mean, I'm still like, Fiorentino's the number one lady I'm chasing in this movie, but she'll kill me. Right, I'll be dead.

• 1:55:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:55:32David Sims?

  That's like some, one of those like spiders that eats the man after.

• 1:55:35Griffin Newman?

  Catherine O'Hara has access to nearly unlimited ice cream. She looks awesome. She's got a strong moral code.

• 1:55:43David Sims?

  Now, I will say-

• 1:55:43Griffin Newman?

  She's good at arts and crafts. She makes that flyer fast.

• 1:55:46David Sims?

  Right. It would piss me off if she did the thing where she said numbers while I was trying to write down a phone number. That's very triggering and annoying, yes.

• 1:55:54Griffin Newman?

  As much of a grift bit as I have ever seen committed to film.

• 1:55:57David Sims?

  So annoying. In the movie, you're just like, even in the movie, even though you're annoyed with Griffin, you're like, "Shut the fuck up, stop it."

• 1:56:03Griffin Newman?

  I would never do a bit that annoying, but I respect the craft of it.

• 1:56:08David Sims?

  It's an incredibly-

• 1:56:09Speaker 02

  I would do it on a stranger.

• 1:56:11Griffin Newman?

  It's so fu, it's so funny that he, the first time he's like, "I do have to admit, that's clever. That's funny. Okay, but now, for real, here I go, dialing the phone," and then she does it again.

• 1:56:21Speaker 03

  And of course, sadly, no one knows anyone's number anymore because that's just not part of life.

• 1:56:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:26Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:56:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, I just need to correct you. Catherine O'Hara's character doesn't make the flyer.

• 1:56:32Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Terry Gar makes the flyer.

• 1:56:34Speaker 03

  The woman with the like kinda 60's like beehive.

• 1:56:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but Catherine O'Hara does end up posting them as well.

• 1:56:40Speaker 03

  Yes. The flyer.

• 1:56:42Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's posting the flyer. Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right, right.

• 1:56:45David Sims?

  Again, it kind of contributes to this feeling of like Soho is this kind of force field and like locked box of it.

• 1:56:51Griffin Newman?

  They all know each other.

• 1:56:52David Sims?

  They all know each other. They're all spreading stories around each other, like-

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, they all play a very specific role. She has like unlimited access to a printing thing.

• 1:56:59David Sims?

  Like that's open all night.

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:57:01David Sims?

  She, she's just not gonna, it's like he's intruded on some like medieval village.

• 1:57:06Griffin Newman?

  It's like Children of the Corn or something, right.

• 1:57:08David Sims?

  He like stepped on some like statue and it's broken. Now they're all basically like, "Are you the one who broke the statue? Like you, you have the curse."

• 1:57:16Griffin Newman?

  It's also such a good move. It's such like a, a simple, deceptively simple, elegant thing, but on both car rides, him going down in the cab and going back up in the back of Cheech and Chong's van, the thing of the kind of like whippan, street signs.

• 1:57:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:33Griffin Newman?

  The feeling of, what, what it does feel like, not to be a bunch of fucking New York people in a room talking about New York, but when you just take a cab and you're zooming-

• 1:57:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:43Griffin Newman?

  Down or up one avenue in Manhattan, you're hitting the lights.

• 1:57:46David Sims?

  Click, click.

• 1:57:47Griffin Newman?

  And it feels like you're going so far and you're like, "We've gone 20 blocks." It's not, this is a very compact city.

• 1:57:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:57:54Griffin Newman?

  But yet sometimes you're like, "Oh my God, that neighborhood's so far away." And you're like, "Nothing's like more than an hour away."

• 1:58:01David Sims?

  True.

• 1:58:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:02David Sims?

  I went to Brighton Beach yesterday for lunch. Got on the beach train. I was there in 10 minutes.

• 1:58:06Griffin Newman?

  Explain to us that you haven't been to the beach yet this year.

• 1:58:08David Sims?

  Well, I didn't get to like actually touch the beach.

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  Did you go to Anora's house?

• 1:58:12David Sims?

  Uh, I did not go to Anora's house.

• 1:58:14Griffin Newman?

  You fuck with the candy shop.

• 1:58:16David Sims?

  The really cool, uh, like, you know, giant Russian mobster house. No, I didn't go there. I went to, uh, Rendazza's clam park, the greatest, if anyone knows it. No? Okay, well.

• 1:58:25Speaker 03

  It was awesome. So he's being chased by a mob.

• 1:58:28Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:28David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:29Speaker 03

  And he, it's the moment then that you started the episode off with where he's like screaming-

• 1:58:36David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:58:37Speaker 03

  To the heavens.

• 1:58:38David Sims?

  He's, he's really, he's right. He's asking for celestial intervention at this point.

• 1:58:42Griffin Newman?

  And they've like become like the villagers from Frankenstein. Right.

• 1:58:45David Sims?

  That's what I'm saying. It's like truly like a pissed off village.

• 1:58:48Speaker 03

  Yes. So then he goes-

• 1:58:50David Sims?

  He gets into Berlin, which is now like empty.

• 1:58:52Speaker 03

  Well, no, I was gonna say, actually, he has the interaction with the guy who's cruising.

• 1:58:57David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:58:57Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:58:58Speaker 03

  And he ends up just weirdly asking him to go, like, "Can I go to your apartment?"

• 1:59:02Griffin Newman?

  Looking for safety and I think he's also like, "Every time I follow a woman home, things get complicated."

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:59:09Griffin Newman?

  "Can I just find a boring guy?" And this guy thinks that he's a gigolo.

• 1:59:14Speaker 03

  But it does one of my favorite things, which is when someone's telling a really long story and they keep cutting just at different moments.

• 1:59:22Griffin Newman?

  He does it so elegantly too, where at first you think your brain is like fucking up.

• 1:59:27David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:28Griffin Newman?

  It's like this very, very subtle kind of like audio crossfade. Um, yeah.

• 1:59:33Speaker 02

  It's also one of the beautiful moments, like one of the beautiful examples of telling someone a story that you think is so crazy and like your life has been just so overwhelming and they're just staring at you blankly, cause it like truly doesn't matter at all.

• 1:59:45Griffin Newman?

  This is boring and all I'm thinking about is, "Do I wanna have sex with you or not?"

• 1:59:49Speaker 02

  I don't care about your life.

• 1:59:50Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:59:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:51David Sims?

  He gets to Berlin.

• 1:59:52Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:59:53David Sims?

  I personally would go home and fuck the guy.

• 1:59:56Griffin Newman?

  That's what you would do.

• 1:59:57David Sims?

  Yeah, why not?

• 1:59:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:58David Sims?

  Like, you know, it's just maybe that is the reason.

• 2:00:00Speaker 02

  But are you even in the mood at that point?

• 2:00:01David Sims?

  Well, that's a good question. I'm probably just need to take a nap.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:05David Sims?

  But then.

• 2:00:05Speaker 02

  It's what, 4 a.m. now?

• 2:00:07David Sims?

  Could you maybe like find a sex worker who does naps? Where you're just kinda like, hey.

• 2:00:11Speaker 02

  Does naps and what's that?

• 2:00:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, let's pack this day.

• 2:00:13David Sims?

  I just need to take a nap.

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  Like, hey, can you tuck me in?

• 2:00:16David Sims?

  Right, like, do you have a space where I could just, like, we don't need to do anything, I just need a nap.

• 2:00:20Speaker 02

  So you're looking for a landlord.

• 2:00:22Griffin Newman?

  What is the sex worker for?

• 2:00:23David Sims?

  Well, they, they might have a space you could use, you know, like a bed.

• 2:00:26Speaker 02

  Like a hotel.

• 2:00:27David Sims?

  Right, right, you know.

• 2:00:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:29David Sims?

  An area, but I, right, I'm just like, hey, would love to hang out, just nap, though. Nap, nap only, please, right.

• 2:00:35Griffin Newman?

  Uh, the great Vernon Bloom, who was responsible, partially responsible, we talked about in the Mean Streets episode.

• 2:00:42David Sims?

  Right?

• 2:00:42Griffin Newman?

  For getting Mean Streets made.

• 2:00:44David Sims?

  Yes, she obviously was married to Jay Cox, uh, the, the, is still married to him.

• 2:00:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:50David Sims?

  Uh, well, she died, but, you know, was married to him her entire life.

• 2:00:52Griffin Newman?

  Was also married to Dean Wormser, who placed, uh, Delta House on double secret probation.

• 2:00:58David Sims?

  Uh, Richard Collier?

• 2:00:59Griffin Newman?

  She plays a very similar role in Animal House.

• 2:01:02David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, right, right, right.

• 2:01:03Griffin Newman?

  As, yes, the world's sexiest older lady to dumb young guys.

• 2:01:07David Sims?

  She, I feel like, like, kind of stopped acting, right? After Animal House, like, she's only in two movies in between Animal House and this.

• 2:01:19Griffin Newman?

  What are the two?

• 2:01:19David Sims?

  Uh, the Clint Eastwood film Honky Tonk Man, one of his most forgotten movies, but a pretty good one.

• 2:01:24Speaker 02

  I've not seen that.

• 2:01:25David Sims?

  Uh, which is sort of the start of Clint being like, what the fuck?

• 2:01:29Griffin Newman?

  I have no idea. I think that was, I think that was, no, you know what that was? That was my alert that I can't eat anymore, cause I'm getting a fucking dental implant put in today.

• 2:01:38David Sims?

  Oh.

• 2:01:39Griffin Newman?

  That's why I don't accidentally put anything in my mouth.

• 2:01:41David Sims?

  When's it happening?

• 2:01:42Griffin Newman?

  It's happening, uh, oh, no, you know what? That alert was, I have 15 minutes before I can stop drinking liquid.

• 2:01:50David Sims?

  Dang.

• 2:01:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's happening in like two and a half hours.

• 2:01:52David Sims?

  Okay, okay. Just making sure you're not.

• 2:01:54Speaker 02

  Are you going under?

• 2:01:55Griffin Newman?

  I think I'm gonna be what my father calls the Conrad Murray.

• 2:02:00David Sims?

  Kinda in and out?

• 2:02:01Griffin Newman?

  That's the Michael Jackson.

• 2:02:02David Sims?

  Right, Michael Jackson's guy.

• 2:02:02Griffin Newman?

  But he goes, he goes, uh, doctor's appointment, they gonna do the, uh, Dr. Conrad Murray to you? This is how my father talks.

• 2:02:08Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 2:02:09David Sims?

  Uh, he, she's also in a film called The Journey of Natty Gen, which is like a Disney adventure movie, uh, she has a tiny role in that.

• 2:02:16Griffin Newman?

  She plays Mary in Last Temptation, obviously.

• 2:02:18Speaker 02

  Is it live action?

• 2:02:19David Sims?

  It is.

• 2:02:20Griffin Newman?

  And that's her last movie.

• 2:02:21David Sims?

  Last Temptation, in which she plays, uh, Jesus's mom, Mary, heard of her?

• 2:02:26Griffin Newman?

  The original badass mama. Um, and then, right.

• 2:02:31David Sims?

  Original, uh, virgin influencer.

• 2:02:33Griffin Newman?

  Her only credit after that is a fucking Animal House special feature where everyone reprised their characters and did a where are they now thing.

• 2:02:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:02:40Griffin Newman?

  So basically, these are her last two films.

• 2:02:42David Sims?

  But she's so goddamn, I mean, this like, it's just what the movie needs.

• 2:02:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:02:46David Sims?

  Like, after all this pressure and madness, just to like, dance to Is That All There Is, just the, the total

• 2:02:52Griffin Newman?

  So good.

• 2:02:52David Sims?

  Kind of like meditative, weird, still dreamy.

• 2:02:55Griffin Newman?

  And Marty hasn't been doing the needle drops as much in this film.

• 2:02:58David Sims?

  True.

• 2:02:59Griffin Newman?

  It feels big to have, you know, the score's very heavy in this film.

• 2:03:02David Sims?

  Howard Shore.

• 2:03:03Speaker 02

  I love the score.

• 2:03:03Griffin Newman?

  Wonderful score.

• 2:03:04David Sims?

  I really love Shore's collaborations with Marty because I feel like, you know, and we've talked about this with Howard Shore a little bit, like, before he became the Lord of the Rings guy.

• 2:03:14Griffin Newman?

  I mean.

• 2:03:14David Sims?

  He was the weird, you know, atonal music guy, Cronenberg and Marty and stuff.

• 2:03:19Griffin Newman?

  If you just go highlights of his career, he was the original music director on Saturday Night Live.

• 2:03:24David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:03:25Griffin Newman?

  He becomes David Cronenberg and Martin Scorsese's go-to guys. And then soundtracks the Lord of the Rings films.

• 2:03:32David Sims?

  It's, it's.

• 2:03:33Speaker 02

  Crazy film.

• 2:03:33Griffin Newman?

  It's so wild, the swings in that.

• 2:03:35David Sims?

  Jackson tapped him.

• 2:03:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:03:37David Sims?

  That Jackson was like, I think you have that in you, you know?

• 2:03:39Griffin Newman?

  Because Jackson comes from a kind of Cronenberg-y space originally.

• 2:03:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:03:43Griffin Newman?

  But I remember reading Live from New York and being like, that's funny that there's another guy in music named Howard Shore. Surely that can't be the same person.

• 2:03:52David Sims?

  He's a king, no, the score's so good, but yes, okay, but, uh, is, is that all there is, it's, it's great.

• 2:03:58Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 2:03:58David Sims?

  What?

• 2:03:59Griffin Newman?

  The voice of a songwriter.

• 2:04:00David Sims?

  Yes, sir, I sure don't.

• 2:04:01Speaker 02

  I'm crying right now.

• 2:04:03David Sims?

  I cannot hold a tune.

• 2:04:05Speaker 02

  I like her.

• 2:04:05Speaker 03

  How do you guys feel about chain link fence in the room here? It's just like.

• 2:04:10Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:04:10Speaker 03

  It's like, okay.

• 2:04:11David Sims?

  I don't care for a chain link fence, why, are you trying to get into chain link fences, Ben? Cause they're, they're chain adjacent.

• 2:04:17Griffin Newman?

  Oh, no.

• 2:04:17Speaker 03

  It's a good look.

• 2:04:18Griffin Newman?

  Wait a second.

• 2:04:19Speaker 03

  Yes!

• 2:04:19David Sims?

  I think it's sort of famously considered not a good look.

• 2:04:22Griffin Newman?

  David, I just noticed, our, our closet door's open, there's a bunch of chain link in there. Ben bought big.

• 2:04:28David Sims?

  Chain link fences are kinda like, hey, do you want your kinda, maybe your yard to look a little threatening, but also for it to possibly, it would hurt you if you touched it, like, chain link fences.

• 2:04:39Griffin Newman?

  What if we found out that Ben was asking us, cause he, like, bought chain link futures? He was like, coffee's going down, chain link's going up.

• 2:04:48Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, we're heading towards a police state, so.

• 2:04:51Griffin Newman?

  This is true. I was gonna say, I don't like outdoor things indoors, and then I remember we're recording in a studio with a porch inside.

• 2:04:59Griffin Newman?

  Can we call out?

• 2:05:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:01Griffin Newman?

  Soon to be guest, next week's episode, Chris Ryan.

• 2:05:03David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:05:03Griffin Newman?

  When, before the episode, we always try to take the photo before the episode, so we don't forget.

• 2:05:07David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:05:08Griffin Newman?

  Um, cause this episode, the podcast is usually really short and people leave, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, full of energy.

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, when we wrap up, we're like, let's hang out a little longer.

• 2:05:15David Sims?

  And we definitely, and we definitely don't look like we just got hit in the face.

• 2:05:18Griffin Newman?

  Truly. We had a friend come visit at the end of a record the other day, and I had to apologize for it, it's like, he walked into a room where four men had just had exorcisms.

• 2:05:28David Sims?

  It's just, he was, and I hadn't seen Sam in a while, and I was just like, hey, Sam.

• 2:05:31Griffin Newman?

  The great Sam Rogal.

• 2:05:32David Sims?

  Yeah, like, I wasn't, I wasn't like, Sam, I was just like, Sam, it's nice to see you.

• 2:05:36Griffin Newman?

  I don't know, I don't know what words are anymore, but Chris Ryan, we were like, we gotta take the picture, and he was like, oh, okay, so we have to go outside? And we were like, the porch.

• 2:05:44Speaker 02

  That's what I thought too, I was saying that.

• 2:05:46David Sims?

  Wait, really?

• 2:05:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:47David Sims?

  Oh, shit.

• 2:05:47Griffin Newman?

  Ben's always in his head about the effectiveness of the porch, and everyone's buying that it's real.

• 2:05:52Speaker 02

  No, I was like, what, are they like taking the train somewhere, like going on a trip after they record?

• 2:05:56David Sims?

  It would be so funny if I hadn't told you that and then sprang it on you.

• 2:05:59Speaker 02

  Like you had beach day.

• 2:06:00David Sims?

  Yeah, we're going to the beach.

• 2:06:02Speaker 02

  Like, are they like at Rockaway?

• 2:06:03David Sims?

  Maybe Blank Check does need a beach shack.

• 2:06:05Speaker 02

  Make a day of it?

• 2:06:06David Sims?

  Maybe that's our next move.

• 2:06:07Griffin Newman?

  Blank Check, Beach Shack.

• 2:06:09David Sims?

  I'm down.

• 2:06:10Griffin Newman?

  Blank Check, Beach Shack.

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  That would be.

• 2:06:12David Sims?

  Check, let's keep saying it.

• 2:06:13Griffin Newman?

  Beach Shack.

• 2:06:15Speaker 02

  That would be fire.

• 2:06:16David Sims?

  Thank you.

• 2:06:17Speaker 02

  For the pond.

• 2:06:17David Sims?

  And this is a fire pod.

• 2:06:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:19David Sims?

  As you already said.

• 2:06:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:20Griffin Newman?

  It would be Iron Chef.

• 2:06:21Speaker 03

  Okay, so he's in Club Berlin, uh, they have a dance, and he, they come to find him.

• 2:06:28David Sims?

  They come to find him, and so she does the only thing you can do. Covers him in plaster and pairs.

• 2:06:32Griffin Newman?

  You gotta pay for Mache's ass.

• 2:06:33Speaker 03

  Do you remember how just everyone was getting slimed in the 90s?

• 2:06:37Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 2:06:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:37Speaker 03

  That was just a huge part of the 90s.

• 2:06:39Griffin Newman?

  And that's another thing, by the way, this movie's about the AIDS panic, and it's about the slime panic.

• 2:06:44Speaker 03

  But I mean, it's like, that's how we used to confront adults and make them pay for their sin.

• 2:06:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:48David Sims?

  Dump slime on them.

• 2:06:49Griffin Newman?

  Well, they would try to tell us that we couldn't do that on television, and we would say, I'm actually gonna slime your ass.

• 2:06:53David Sims?

  We would say it's slime time.

• 2:06:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:06:55David Sims?

  Yes, and then we would prove that we had guts by climbing the aggro crag.

• 2:06:58Griffin Newman?

  Our biggest movie stars would make a peace offering, say, I will be in family comedies, I'm willing to appeal to you, the children of America, and we'd go, okay, how about eat slime?

• 2:07:07David Sims?

  Slime time!

• 2:07:08Speaker 02

  They should bring slime to the Oscars.

• 2:07:10David Sims?

  Oh, that'd be a good idea, like, the winner gets the Oscar and the other four nominees are signed. In their seats.

• 2:07:15Griffin Newman?

  Has been doing a great job, but what if Rosie O'Donnell hosts the Oscars and everyone gets slimed?

• 2:07:21David Sims?

  Was she at the forefront of sliming for when she was, I remember, I didn't live in America at the time.

• 2:07:26Griffin Newman?

  She was like the Billy Crystal of the kids' choices.

• 2:07:28David Sims?

  That I know, I know.

• 2:07:29Speaker 02

  Speak on this, you never talk about that.

• 2:07:30David Sims?

  Ally, don't you think you can walk into my house?

• 2:07:33Griffin Newman?

  She was pretty inextricably

• 2:07:34David Sims?

  Start with that.

• 2:07:35Griffin Newman?

  Tied to sliming, cause she was often adjacent to the biggest slimes of the year.

• 2:07:39David Sims?

  Right, right, right, but was she, was she like pushing the plunger?

• 2:07:42Griffin Newman?

  Sometimes, they mix it up.

• 2:07:43David Sims?

  Who's the double dare, what's the double dare guy's name?

• 2:07:45Griffin Newman?

  Mark Summers?

• 2:07:46David Sims?

  Yeah, him, he was.

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  Did slime cross the pond, like, were you aware of slime?

• 2:07:49David Sims?

  There was some sliming, but I.

• 2:07:50Speaker 03

  What do they call it there?

• 2:07:52Griffin Newman?

  Goo.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  Goo.

• 2:07:53David Sims?

  Custard.

• 2:07:55Speaker 02

  You got a bit of goo on you.

• 2:07:56Griffin Newman?

  They call it goo with a U.

• 2:07:58David Sims?

  No, this is actually an interesting question, cause I do think it was more American, but it was a little bit of the sliming, I think.

• 2:08:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:03David Sims?

  But it was, it was so, it was so what I thought of with like an American game show in the 90s or whatever.

• 2:08:09Griffin Newman?

  In England, they just throw like blood pudding at someone.

• 2:08:12David Sims?

  A blood pudding.

• 2:08:13Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 2:08:13Griffin Newman?

  With a U.

• 2:08:14David Sims?

  Yes. Yeah, where's the U?

• 2:08:18Griffin Newman?

  B L O U D.

• 2:08:21David Sims?

  Lewd pudding.

• 2:08:23Griffin Newman?

  D O D D I N G.

• 2:08:26Speaker 02

  Poding.

• 2:08:27Griffin Newman?

  Poding.

• 2:08:28Speaker 03

  Uh, okay, so he has slimed, he has to hide.

• 2:08:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:31Speaker 03

  Right?

• 2:08:31David Sims?

  See, he's, he's plastered up.

• 2:08:33Speaker 03

  He's turned into a statue.

• 2:08:35Griffin Newman?

  And then Cheech and Chong steal him, he goes back uptown, and they throw him out the fucking back of a van.

• 2:08:39David Sims?

  The first time you see this movie, and that's unfolding, cause, you know, is that all there, is that all there is is the end of the movie, kind of.

• 2:08:45Griffin Newman?

  Emotionally.

• 2:08:46David Sims?

  Emotionally, right.

• 2:08:47Griffin Newman?

  It's like he's tired of younger women, and he's sort of like, do I need a mama?

• 2:08:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:51Griffin Newman?

  Instead.

• 2:08:51David Sims?

  And she's like, sure, baby, come here, anyway, now you're a statue.

• 2:08:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:08:55David Sims?

  Uh, you know, I feel like there's so many readings, anyone could, like, anyone could kinda just like academically take a swing at this movie and put almost any reading on it, it's got so much heavy symbolism.

• 2:09:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:05David Sims?

  You could really have your fun with it, you know what I mean?

• 2:09:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I was, I was going through some like queer readings, cause I was curious if other people have written about this kind of AIDS panic thing, and I do think it's a little pointed that the end of this movie is being like, and you get safely returned to your high-paying job.

• 2:09:19David Sims?

  Yeah, yuppie boy.

• 2:09:20Griffin Newman?

  And you don't have to deal with this shit anymore.

• 2:09:21David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:22Griffin Newman?

  These people live in this world and you don't, that was a dalliance for you, it was a night that was scary. And now you're just back in its daylight, you're in the MetLife building, those beautiful fucking gates.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  And the robbers get away too.

• 2:09:36Griffin Newman?

  They do.

• 2:09:36David Sims?

  They do.

• 2:09:37Speaker 03

  Cheech and Chong.

• 2:09:38David Sims?

  They're unkillable.

• 2:09:39Speaker 03

  Revealed to have been the one stealing everything.

• 2:09:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they're up in smoke.

• 2:09:41David Sims?

  It's Mozart, not Beethoven, is the music, by the way.

• 2:09:44Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:09:44David Sims?

  Me and Team Major.

• 2:09:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:45David Sims?

  Sorry, embarrassed.

• 2:09:48David Sims?

  But at the same time.

• 2:09:50Speaker 03

  Bad Brains, that hardcore, that's the punk band that's playing at Niagara. The song, Pay to Come.

• 2:09:58David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:09:58Griffin Newman?

  I, I just.

• 2:09:59David Sims?

  Surrender Dorothy.

• 2:10:00Griffin Newman?

  I love this movie so much and it, it's what we were saying.

• 2:10:03David Sims?

  I can't come unless there's a shark biting my dick. Another after hours.

• 2:10:07Griffin Newman?

  That's why you married Bruce the Shark.

• 2:10:09Speaker 02

  That'd be a good tramp stamp.

• 2:10:10David Sims?

  Yeah, I'm gonna, right, I'll get that.

• 2:10:12Speaker 02

  I'll get the shark.

• 2:10:13David Sims?

  I'm just gonna get it put on my body like a sash. It'll go, it'll go diagonally down.

• 2:10:17Griffin Newman?

  Ali, you said tramp stamp and David started gesturing towards the back of his shoulders.

• 2:10:22David Sims?

  I was like, but then I went.

• 2:10:24Speaker 02

  It can mean anything to anyone.

• 2:10:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:28David Sims?

  I also, I think it's, you know, what you, I agree with what you said, Griffin, but there is, it is also the thing of like, you're now, that was your moment of fun and freedom, not fun, you know, but like you experienced a more exciting world. You're back in the mouse.

• 2:10:41Griffin Newman?

  You don't want it.

• 2:10:42David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. Right.

• 2:10:43Griffin Newman?

  But also like, these are the people who start to erase those things from New York.

• 2:10:47David Sims?

  Look around you. Rowan Atkinson is there. John Cleese, you're in the Rat Race.

• 2:10:52Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 2:10:53David Sims?

  Cuba Gooding Jr., Breckenmeyer.

• 2:10:56Griffin Newman?

  You wanna know something?

• 2:10:57David Sims?

  Whoopi.

• 2:10:57Griffin Newman?

  You wanna know something interesting?

• 2:10:58David Sims?

  Malibu's Most Wanted? Is he in that one?

• 2:11:01Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 2:11:02Griffin Newman?

  Wait, and wait.

• 2:11:03David Sims?

  No, he's not in Rat Race. Jamie Kennedy.

• 2:11:05Griffin Newman?

  Cheech is in, who are you saying is in Malibu?

• 2:11:08David Sims?

  Jamie Kennedy. He's saying Jamie Kennedy's in Rat Race.

• 2:11:11Griffin Newman?

  Kennedy is not in Rat Race.

• 2:11:12David Sims?

  Who's that other guy?

• 2:11:13Griffin Newman?

  It's Breckenmeyer and the other guy's name is like Vince Velouf.

• 2:11:16David Sims?

  That's right.

• 2:11:16Griffin Newman?

  This is the thing I was gonna tell you, cause it's similar to like Cheech and Chong being in this movie, that Cheech and Chong could be ported over as a comedy duo to things outside of their series.

• 2:11:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:26Griffin Newman?

  So that duo is Seth Green as the like scheming.

• 2:11:30David Sims?

  Yeah, I was seeing.

• 2:11:31Griffin Newman?

  Matter mouth.

• 2:11:31David Sims?

  I got, I got Seth Green and.

• 2:11:33Griffin Newman?

  And then Vince Velouf is his brother who just had a tongue piercing and he can't talk cause his tongue is swollen.

• 2:11:38David Sims?

  Talk like this, right, yeah, cause it's all swollen.

• 2:11:39Griffin Newman?

  Our buddy, friend of the show, past and future guest, Kevin Smith, recently revealed on a podcast that that was written for Jay and Silent Bob.

• 2:11:46David Sims?

  Oh.

• 2:11:47Griffin Newman?

  That it was straight offered to them that in the sort of.

• 2:11:49David Sims?

  Be why Silent Bobcats talk.

• 2:11:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:11:52David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:52Griffin Newman?

  In the Mad Mad World construction of the movie, they were like, do we port over people's personas? Do we need a pre-existing comedy duo?

• 2:12:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:00Griffin Newman?

  Right. And so it was written to literally be the two of them doing that. And obviously Bob was gonna be silent. And then when they changed it, they were like, what's the reason that one of the brothers wouldn't talk?

• 2:12:11David Sims?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:12:12Griffin Newman?

  Fascinating to consider.

• 2:12:13David Sims?

  Yeah. Have you seen Rat Race? That's not one to be embarrassed about.

• 2:12:18Griffin Newman?

  It's the second best movie to use Smash Mouse All-Star in the year 2001.

• 2:12:24David Sims?

  That's right. That's right.

• 2:12:25Speaker 02

  Big year for Smash Mouse.

• 2:12:26David Sims?

  Huge year for them.

• 2:12:27Speaker 02

  Of course, Shrek.

• 2:12:28Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:12:28Speaker 02

  I'm familiar.

• 2:12:29Griffin Newman?

  Cause in 99, it's in Inspector Gadget and Mystery Man. 2000, they take a year off.

• 2:12:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:35Griffin Newman?

  2001, it's in Shrek and it's in Rat Race.

• 2:12:38David Sims?

  I love the Japanese poster of Rat Race where they have an extra picture of Rowan Atkinson to really underline like FYI, Mr. Bean in this one.

• 2:12:46Speaker 02

  By the way.

• 2:12:47David Sims?

  Yes. Okay, uh, so this film was released, uh, on just one screen, uh, in September 13th, 1985. Expanded, you know, slowly enough, made it up to way to like ninth place. It grossed $10 million, so it's double the budget. But, you know, was not a breakout hit they hoped for.

• 2:13:07Griffin Newman?

  Indie breakout rather than a solid little indie success.

• 2:13:09David Sims?

  Ebert loved it. Called it the work of a master filmmaker.

• 2:13:13Griffin Newman?

  Four stars right out the gate.

• 2:13:15David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:13:15Speaker 02

  Beautiful.

• 2:13:15David Sims?

  Pauline Kael was like, I'm super chill and I think everything's fine. Just kidding. She was really, really insane about this movie. She's in her late eighties. Uh, you know, 1980s kinda like, uh, crazy mode. I would say Pauline Kael gets really, really sort of, uh, persnickety in her, in her later years.

• 2:13:34David Sims?

  But, uh, she really, um, hates it.

• 2:13:36Griffin Newman?

  Good.

• 2:13:38David Sims?

  It plays in competition at Cannes.

• 2:13:41David Sims?

  Apparently Gaddafi that year, Libyan, uh, leader.

• 2:13:45Griffin Newman?

  Right, he won the Palme d'Or, right?

• 2:13:46David Sims?

  Uh, had threatened to blow up Cannes.

• 2:13:48Griffin Newman?

  Oh, okay. That's the opposite of winning the Palme d'Or.

• 2:13:50Speaker 02

  He did not win the Palme.

• 2:13:52David Sims?

  Uh, no, so Marty didn't go.

• 2:13:54Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:13:54Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:13:55David Sims?

  Only Dunn and Michael Ballhaus went and apparently Silver's, Sylvester Stallone didn't go. And so the French press called Griffin Dunn the bravest American, cause he was the only American actor who went. Uh, the Palme d'Or went to The Mission, one of the worst Palme d'Or winners in my opinion. Uh, not a very good movie.

• 2:14:12Griffin Newman?

  Uh, forgot to mention, one of the best techniques that Scorsese used in this movie.

• 2:14:17David Sims?

  Marty won Best Actor.

• 2:14:17Griffin Newman?

  Is that he had a box full of, uh, shattered glass. That he would have a P A hold, yeah, Hayden Christensen, baby Hayden Christensen was in a basket. Uh, no, he had a box full of shattered glass pieces and he had like a P A would stand next to him. And at certain times he'd like point and the kid would drop the glass to try to get a natural reaction out of Griffin Dunn. And he'd be like, don't, stay straight, you know? But then he would just do this loud disorienting noise. You can see it very much in the moment where he walks into the Verna Bloom, the emptied out Berlin at the end. But there's all these things. We mentioned the, the sex strike, the vow of celibacy that was forced on him.

• 2:15:00Griffin Newman?

  There's also like a lot of making him like run around the block. You know, he would, I, I think the same thing happens walking into Berlin where it's like, on action, you run around the block, the camera's gonna be rolling. And the scene doesn't start until you've done the entire circumference and entered into the frame. He just did a lot of stuff to like throw him off.

• 2:15:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:21Griffin Newman?

  Because, you know, it's like, don't play comedy stressed. How do I actually create a little bit, uh, a sense of true mania and disorientation in this guy? He's usually very smooth.

• 2:15:31Speaker 02

  It's like in that part of Boogie Nights where they're lighting off the.

• 2:15:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:35Speaker 02

  The fireworks.

• 2:15:36David Sims?

  Crackers, god.

• 2:15:36Speaker 02

  It's making everyone.

• 2:15:37Griffin Newman?

  It's also like that part in Boogie Nights where the penis is really large. Yeah.

• 2:15:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:43David Sims?

  This film came out September 15th, 13th, 1985, Griffin.

• 2:15:46Griffin Newman?

  Never forget.

• 2:15:47David Sims?

  So, whatever. Number one at the box office, biggest movie, 85. We've covered on the podcast.

• 2:15:52Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it would be Beverly Hills Cop?

• 2:15:53David Sims?

  Nope.

• 2:15:55Griffin Newman?

  Fuck. It was a late, 84, released in December 84. And 85, the biggest film which we covered.

• 2:16:02David Sims?

  Sci-fi.

• 2:16:03Griffin Newman?

  Is a sci-fi movie. It's a sci-fi, it's a sci-fi adventure, sort of?

• 2:16:07David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah, what do you want from me?

• 2:16:09Speaker 02

  Is it Spielberg?

• 2:16:11Griffin Newman?

  No. 86 is Aliens.

• 2:16:14David Sims?

  True.

• 2:16:15Griffin Newman?

  80, True Lies is Cameron.

• 2:16:18David Sims?

  That's also 1994.

• 2:16:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, it's not Spielberg and it's not Lucas.

• 2:16:24David Sims?

  No, but it's one of their pals.

• 2:16:26Griffin Newman?

  It's one of their pals who we covered.

• 2:16:29David Sims?

  In the pandemic, heard of it?

• 2:16:31Griffin Newman?

  In the pandemic, it's called Back to the Future.

• 2:16:34David Sims?

  To the Future.

• 2:16:35Griffin Newman?

  Back to the Future. So it's been out for like two, three months at this point?

• 2:16:39David Sims?

  Yep.

• 2:16:39Griffin Newman?

  What's it up to?

• 2:16:40David Sims?

  145 mil.

• 2:16:42Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna get to 250, 260?

• 2:16:45David Sims?

  I know.

• 2:16:46Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna go.

• 2:16:47David Sims?

  225, but.

• 2:16:48Griffin Newman?

  Pretty high.

• 2:16:49David Sims?

  Pretty high for way back in the day.

• 2:16:50Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:16:51David Sims?

  Number two at the box office is another film starring the star of Back to the Future.

• 2:16:57Griffin Newman?

  It's called Teen Wolf.

• 2:16:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:16:58Griffin Newman?

  So shot at first, it got the box office.

• 2:17:00David Sims?

  Michael J. Fox is one and two.

• 2:17:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:02David Sims?

  At the box office.

• 2:17:03Griffin Newman?

  He was the king for a little bit.

• 2:17:05David Sims?

  A good actor.

• 2:17:06Griffin Newman?

  And I think he wins the Emmy this year as well.

• 2:17:08Speaker 02

  For what?

• 2:17:08Griffin Newman?

  For Family Ties. But they were like, you're a movie star. You finally get to win the Emmy.

• 2:17:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:17:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:13Speaker 02

  That's a reverse McConaughey.

• 2:17:15Griffin Newman?

  It happened to Helen Hunt.

• 2:17:16David Sims?

  Sort of happened to McConaughey, though. I know what you mean, where it's like.

• 2:17:18Speaker 02

  For, uh.

• 2:17:19David Sims?

  True Detective.

• 2:17:20Griffin Newman?

  True Detective.

• 2:17:20Speaker 02

  He should've won for True Detective, but he won, no, he won the Oscar for.

• 2:17:25David Sims?

  Dallas Buyers.

• 2:17:25Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. Like two months after True Detective premiere. But Helen Hunt, I think wins for Mad About You, the year they give her the Oscar and a similar kind of like.

• 2:17:35David Sims?

  A lot of Emmys.

• 2:17:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:17:36David Sims?

  And deserved them all.

• 2:17:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:37David Sims?

  And, uh, she also won my award for hottest lady.

• 2:17:40Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:17:41David Sims?

  Uh, Dallas Buyers Club, I saw on my first day with my wife. I just bring it, I'd love to bring that up. It's the funniest.

• 2:17:46Griffin Newman?

  Listeners, no, if you're looking for a hot tip.

• 2:17:49David Sims?

  As I've, I've, I've said it before, but first scene, he's having wild unprotected sex. Second scene, you have AIDS.

• 2:17:56Griffin Newman?

  Look, if you wanna get married, all you do is find the person who lights up your heart and take them to one of those countless rep screenings of Dallas Buyers Club. It's playing at the Roxy every other night.

• 2:18:07Speaker 02

  It'd be a great double feature with After Hours.

• 2:18:09David Sims?

  So who beat McConaughey?

• 2:18:11Griffin Newman?

  For the Emmy?

• 2:18:12David Sims?

  Yeah, cause I do remember him losing because True Detective hype got so crazy that I feel like there was a mild backlash by the time.

• 2:18:20Speaker 02

  But it was so deserved. He's so fucking good in True Detective.

• 2:18:23Griffin Newman?

  They ran it in mini-series, right?

• 2:18:25David Sims?

  I believe so.

• 2:18:26Speaker 02

  No, I don't think.

• 2:18:26David Sims?

  No?

• 2:18:27Speaker 02

  I don't think.

• 2:18:28David Sims?

  Didn't, they ran it in drama series. That was their mistake.

• 2:18:30Speaker 02

  Cause that was season one. I don't think they knew it would be anthology.

• 2:18:32Griffin Newman?

  Who'd they run a, who, who beat him?

• 2:18:35David Sims?

  Bryan Cranston in Breaking Bad.

• 2:18:36Speaker 02

  Uh, that was a really good year.

• 2:18:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:40David Sims?

  Yeah, it was a really good year. Jeff Daniels is nominated for the newsroom.

• 2:18:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:43David Sims?

  You know?

• 2:18:44Griffin Newman?

  But you're right. I, I think he is.

• 2:18:46David Sims?

  Kevin Spacey for House of Cards. This is a good year.

• 2:18:49Speaker 02

  Classic.

• 2:18:49David Sims?

  And Jon Hamm.

• 2:18:50Griffin Newman?

  He's very good in Dallas Buyers Club, but he absolutely won the Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club and True Detective coming out.

• 2:18:57Speaker 02

  And Interstellar came out that year too.

• 2:18:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, which is his actual best performance. For my money, that's his best performance ever.

• 2:19:04David Sims?

  Number three at the box office is a film we discussed on this very episode, directed by a guy who was considered for directing this film.

• 2:19:13Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it's called Peewee's Big Adventure.

• 2:19:14David Sims?

  That's correct.

• 2:19:16Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 2:19:16David Sims?

  It's in the box.

• 2:19:17Speaker 02

  That was three at the box office.

• 2:19:18David Sims?

  Number three, it's been out for quite a while. It has made 40, uh, yeah, it's made 30 on its way to 40 million.

• 2:19:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:26David Sims?

  Yeah, it's doing well. Number four at the box office is a drama, sort of like a, this is a film I don't know.

• 2:19:34Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:19:35David Sims?

  Like a sort of true crime-y kinda drama. It's based on a novel.

• 2:19:39Griffin Newman?

  It's a true.

• 2:19:39David Sims?

  So not true crime, but like kinda like.

• 2:19:40Speaker 02

  Gone Girl.

• 2:19:41David Sims?

  It's kinda Gone Girl-y, it sounds like. It's about a Long Island housewife and former journalist who becomes involved in a murder investigation.

• 2:19:48Griffin Newman?

  It's not like The Morning After.

• 2:19:49David Sims?

  No.

• 2:19:50Griffin Newman?

  But it's something like that?

• 2:19:53David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:19:54Griffin Newman?

  Kind of vibe? Is it like two stars?

• 2:19:55David Sims?

  Yeah, I, it's one big star.

• 2:19:58Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:19:58David Sims?

  And one of my favorite actors. I've never seen it. I've never really heard of it. It's from director Frank Perry.

• 2:20:03Griffin Newman?

  It's one of my favorite actors. Is it bacon? Slab of bacon on that bad boy?

• 2:20:07David Sims?

  No, that's a, I love him though.

• 2:20:09Griffin Newman?

  Is it a Bridges?

• 2:20:10David Sims?

  No, it's, it's a less, like, I, I may be throwing you with one of my favorite.

• 2:20:14Griffin Newman?

  Oh, it's a Colin Farrell movie.

• 2:20:16David Sims?

  Yeah, he was, he was around in the eighties.

• 2:20:18Griffin Newman?

  1985.

• 2:20:18David Sims?

  Look, I, you're not gonna know it, but I'll tell you that the star is Susan Sarandon and then my favorite actor is who I'm referring to is, uh, Raul Julia.

• 2:20:25Griffin Newman?

  Oh, this is, uh, what's it called?

• 2:20:28David Sims?

  Called Compromising Positions.

• 2:20:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, there we go.

• 2:20:31David Sims?

  Anyone seen it?

• 2:20:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:20:33David Sims?

  Pauline Kael liked this one, apparently.

• 2:20:34Griffin Newman?

  Oh, good.

• 2:20:36David Sims?

  Number five at the box office.

• 2:20:38Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:20:39David Sims?

  Is a film that I am Googling to triple check that it is a comedy. Yes, it is.

• 2:20:48David Sims?

  Big star.

• 2:20:48Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:20:49David Sims?

  Two big star. All right. Big act, big guy who'll become big actor is still in the comedy lane.

• 2:20:55Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:20:57David Sims?

  Is one of the stars. The other star, comedy legend.

• 2:20:59Griffin Newman?

  Nothing in common.

• 2:21:00David Sims?

  No, but you're in the right ballpark.

• 2:21:02Griffin Newman?

  Fuck. Okay, so it's like that. It's like a Hanks and a Gleason.

• 2:21:06David Sims?

  It's a Hanks and a someone.

• 2:21:08Griffin Newman?

  It's a Hanks and a someone is a Dragnet.

• 2:21:10David Sims?

  No.

• 2:21:11Griffin Newman?

  The movie that inspired the Dragnet rap. It's a different Hanks. It's not Money Pit.

• 2:21:17David Sims?

  No.

• 2:21:17Griffin Newman?

  Cause you said the second person's more kind of legendary elder statesman.

• 2:21:21David Sims?

  No, I didn't say, I didn't say that. I just said the legendary comedy person.

• 2:21:25Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:21:26David Sims?

  This, I, I think this is where Tom Hanks meets Rita Wilson.

• 2:21:30Griffin Newman?

  Oh, this is Volunteers?

• 2:21:32David Sims?

  Volunteers.

• 2:21:33Griffin Newman?

  Volunteers.

• 2:21:33David Sims?

  And who is the comedy star I refer to?

• 2:21:35Griffin Newman?

  John Candy.

• 2:21:36David Sims?

  John Candy.

• 2:21:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:37David Sims?

  This is a Nicholas Meyer movie. I've never seen it.

• 2:21:39Griffin Newman?

  Never seen it either.

• 2:21:40David Sims?

  I don't know what it's about.

• 2:21:42Griffin Newman?

  I would guess it's about Volunteers.

• 2:21:44David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:21:45Griffin Newman?

  I always get Volunteers and Great Outdoors confused because Great Outdoors is Annette Bening's debut film and this is, if not Rita Wilson's debut, obviously her breakout.

• 2:21:55David Sims?

  I don't know. They're like building a bridge. There's like monkeys. I have no idea what's going on. Rita Wilson's showing midriff.

• 2:22:02Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:22:03David Sims?

  On the poster. Yeah. Hello.

• 2:22:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:05David Sims?

  Uh, like Tom Hanks is like spoiled rich kid. John Candy is probably more salt of the earth.

• 2:22:11Griffin Newman?

  It is really funny to look at the eighties Hanks and be like, no one would have bet money on this guy owning the nineties.

• 2:22:18David Sims?

  And just becoming America's like elder statesman.

• 2:22:21Griffin Newman?

  Everything. Yeah.

• 2:22:23David Sims?

  Number six of the box office is Cocoon?

• 2:22:25Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:22:26David Sims?

  You know that one? Old guys?

• 2:22:27Speaker 02

  Haven't seen it, but I'm familiar.

• 2:22:28Griffin Newman?

  You know what? This is a generational thing.

• 2:22:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:31Griffin Newman?

  Cocoon has famously been out of circulation for like a decade. Our friend Matt Patches did an article about it. It is not streamable anywhere. The DVD Blu-ray out of print. I feel like it was a real cable TV movie. But it's one of those films that was just a humongous fucking hit that won two Academy Awards, three, and now it just kind of doesn't exist.

• 2:22:52David Sims?

  Um, no.

• 2:22:53Griffin Newman?

  Do you know the premise of Cocoon?

• 2:22:55Speaker 02

  Uh-uh, I couldn't tell you.

• 2:22:57Griffin Newman?

  There's an old folks home and aliens land in the swimming pool and the swimming pool makes them young.

• 2:23:01Speaker 02

  That sounds fucking awesome. It's like the beach that makes you old and reverse.

• 2:23:04Griffin Newman?

  They still look old, but they can do young person stuff. So it's a bunch of like legendary old actors doing dances and shit. Donna Meche won an Oscar. He's upset that I'm talking about Cocoon.

• 2:23:15David Sims?

  Number seven is the Michael Chiumino movie Year of the Dragon, which is totally not racist at all.

• 2:23:19Griffin Newman?

  Good.

• 2:23:19David Sims?

  Number eight is American Ninja. I bet you that one's not racist. What is that one?

• 2:23:24Griffin Newman?

  Good. Uh, I, it's exactly what it sounds like.

• 2:23:26David Sims?

  Oh, yeah?

• 2:23:27Griffin Newman?

  Promise of the premise.

• 2:23:29David Sims?

  Why am I not?

• 2:23:29Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a canon film.

• 2:23:31David Sims?

  The problem is American Ninja Warrior is really fucking with me here. Uh, yeah, it's a Yo Ham Globus, you know, Menham Golem. Okay, whatever. Yeah. Michael Dudikoff. Yeah, fine. Number nine is Rambo First Blood Part Two.

• 2:23:45Griffin Newman?

  Rambo First Blood Part Two.

• 2:23:46David Sims?

  Rambo Two.

• 2:23:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:23:48David Sims?

  It is, you know, silly fun. Number 10 is the, uh, interesting, uh, commercial failure Lawrence Kaszka movie Silverado.

• 2:23:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, fun movie.

• 2:23:59David Sims?

  That is the 10. Okay.

• 2:24:01Griffin Newman?

  Ally, do you have anything to plug? You're not on social media, are you?

• 2:24:06Speaker 02

  I, I am.

• 2:24:07Griffin Newman?

  Been sitting on that joke for two hours and 24 minutes.

• 2:24:10Speaker 02

  If you Google Bald and Doubt, you will find me.

• 2:24:13Griffin Newman?

  You'll find out.

• 2:24:13Speaker 02

  I'll be back on Instagram. I deactivated. I need a week to cleanse my brain.

• 2:24:17David Sims?

  Of course, you're doing great.

• 2:24:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:18Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 2:24:19Griffin Newman?

  Glasses fell in the toilet.

• 2:24:20Speaker 02

  My glasses fell in the toilet this week. They got flushed because it was auto flush. Had to drop, um, a lot of money.

• 2:24:26Griffin Newman?

  Let's get auto flush out of here. And I say this as someone who spends too much time on toilets. You need to be doing that yourself. You need to have control of the timing.

• 2:24:34Speaker 02

  Cause it never flushes when you need.

• 2:24:35Griffin Newman?

  Nope. Never. Not once.

• 2:24:37Speaker 02

  That's what the, the toilet overflowing in after hours felt very.

• 2:24:40Griffin Newman?

  Griffin Newman coded? Yes, 100%. Yes, unfortunately, yes.

• 2:24:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I, I had my, my pointer and my thumb kind of on the glasses, but before I could really get a good grip, they were just ripped out of my hands by the auto flush. And so I got toilet water on my hands with none of the payoff of getting my glasses out of the toilet. So I hope my, my message to the masses is, uh, take your glasses off before you go into the bathroom.

• 2:25:03David Sims?

  I do. I put them on the collar. That's what I do.

• 2:25:06Speaker 02

  That's a good one.

• 2:25:06David Sims?

  I take them off and I put them on the collar.

• 2:25:08Speaker 02

  Put them on your head is what I learned.

• 2:25:09David Sims?

  I don't.

• 2:25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. It's a bad idea.

• 2:25:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, well, that's a really good plug. Don't put glasses on your head.

• 2:25:16Speaker 02

  I'm just here to give advice.

• 2:25:17Griffin Newman?

  Using toilets.

• 2:25:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:19Griffin Newman?

  Um, after this, Martin Scorsese finally has

• 2:25:24David Sims?

  A hit?

• 2:25:25Griffin Newman?

  An unqualified hit.

• 2:25:25David Sims?

  Yes, The Color of Money.

• 2:25:27Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:25:27David Sims?

  We recorded that episode with Chris Ryan and as far as I know, it is our 600th episode.

• 2:25:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, if he hadn't seen the movie before, Nate, I don't think he liked it very much.

• 2:25:35David Sims?

  Just kidding.

• 2:25:38David Sims?

  There we go.

• 2:25:39Speaker 02

  Quick question. How old is Marty when he directs this movie?

• 2:25:41David Sims?

  Good question.

• 2:25:42Griffin Newman?

  Forty something?

• 2:25:44David Sims?

  Marty Scorsese, of course, was born in 1942. So he's about 42, 43 years old. Yeah. Why?

• 2:25:52Speaker 02

  He's about, I was just curious.

• 2:25:53David Sims?

  He's about David age?

• 2:25:54Speaker 02

  He's about David age.

• 2:25:55Griffin Newman?

  Are you accusing him of being chopped by the time he made this film?

• 2:25:58David Sims?

  Was he unk?

• 2:25:59Speaker 02

  He was unk. He was unk. He wasn't chopped.

• 2:26:01Griffin Newman?

  What's, what's Ohio? What's the, isn't there a state that they use to mean lame and it's rude?

• 2:26:08David Sims?

  And why they, you mean?

• 2:26:09Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:26:10Griffin Newman?

  The young people. My little cousin was telling me that some, some, do you know what I'm talking about here?

• 2:26:14David Sims?

  No, I don't.

• 2:26:15Griffin Newman?

  There's a state that's now like synonymous with lame and I find it offensive.

• 2:26:20Speaker 02

  Well, what states do you have a personal tie to?

• 2:26:22Griffin Newman?

  All of them. I love this country.

• 2:26:24Speaker 02

  Wow. Yay.

• 2:26:28David Sims?

  Um, Ally.

• 2:26:29Griffin Newman?

  Subsequenter Brunson.

• 2:26:32David Sims?

  Very good.

• 2:26:32Griffin Newman?

  Thank you.

• 2:26:34David Sims?

  Yes. Anything else you would like to plug?

• 2:26:36Griffin Newman?

  You should have a podcast. You should have a podcast.

• 2:26:38Speaker 02

  Maybe I will.

• 2:26:39Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well.

• 2:26:41Speaker 02

  That's a threat to the masses. Maybe I'll make a podcast. Maybe I'll start Twitch streaming.

• 2:26:44David Sims?

  Yeah, I was about to say you're threatening a Twitch, a Twitch.

• 2:26:46Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna learn video games and, and stream it in real time. And it's a really good pitch.

• 2:26:50David Sims?

  It is Ohio.

• 2:26:51Griffin Newman?

  It is Ohio. Thank you. It looks like I'm the hippest and the youngest. Well, well, well.

• 2:26:58David Sims?

  Break a bone.

• 2:26:59Griffin Newman?

  I am a baby.

• 2:27:01Speaker 02

  Griffin just turned 20.

• 2:27:03Griffin Newman?

  I did. I, I got dinner with my grandmother and her friends last night and, uh, every time I do this, it reminds me that I share, uh, most conditions with people in their nineties.

• 2:27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:14David Sims?

  But the thing is, Griffin, now that you're calling it out on the podcast, it's kind of chugi.

• 2:27:19Griffin Newman?

  It's kind of cool. Look, my body's Ohio, but my brain is also Ohio.

• 2:27:27Speaker 02

  Hey, I popped an antacid before I came here.

• 2:27:29Griffin Newman?

  That's what it's about.

• 2:27:30Speaker 02

  That's what it's all about.

• 2:27:31Griffin Newman?

  Fucking the hot girls have tummy troubles or some shit. Isn't that a meme?

• 2:27:35Speaker 02

  It was.

• 2:27:36Griffin Newman?

  Okay, and now?

• 2:27:37Speaker 02

  Don't try that.

• 2:27:38Griffin Newman?

  Now that's Ohio?

• 2:27:39Speaker 02

  That's Ohio.

• 2:27:40Griffin Newman?

  That is so Ohio. Yeah.

• 2:27:43David Sims?

  Well, thank you for coming. Please come back, Ally.

• 2:27:44Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me on.

• 2:27:45David Sims?

  Um, and yeah, next week, uh, Color of Money. Take us out of here, Griffin. Launch us out of here. Do the whole thing.

• 2:27:52Griffin Newman?

  Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune, uh, you could go to patreon.com slash Blank Check for our Patreon Blank Check special features where we're currently watching the Resident Evil movies. We must be getting.

• 2:28:05David Sims?

  We're about halfway through. Yep. Retribution coming up.

• 2:28:09Griffin Newman?

  Going up to, uh, Dracula, our March Madness winner after.

• 2:28:13David Sims?

  That'll start in November.

• 2:28:15Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and as always.

• 2:28:17David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:28:18Griffin Newman?

  I wanna, I wanna make a commitment on the show to cover more Griffin movies.

• 2:28:22David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:22Griffin Newman?

  So unfortunately it does mean we're gonna have to cover the films of Frank Karachi.

• 2:28:26David Sims?

  Don't get it.

• 2:28:27Griffin Newman?

  The zookeeper's name is Griffin. We all know that Kevin James' zookeeper is named Griffin. We all know that. His name is Griffin.

• 2:28:33Speaker 02

  Everybody knows that.

• 2:28:34Griffin Newman?

  Everyone knows that Kevin James' zookeeper's name.

• 2:28:36Speaker 02

  I've been really tempted to start just saying numbers during this outro.

• 2:28:49Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and The Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 2:29:34Speaker 03

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.